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Session Date: June 11th 2011 Laura, Ark, Belibaste, Perceval, Andromeda, Ailen, PoB, Galaxia (AKA Galatea), Burma Jones, Ottershrew, Psyche, Mr. Scott [Laura and Andromeda at the board] A: OMANDSAPGKNRWAEHL or by being near in deep space now listen FIOEY quiet number wonderful peace Q: (L) What was all that? [Review of answer] What is your name? A: Goran Lezczek Q: (L) And did you ever have a body of your own? A: Yes Q: (L) And when did you die? Q: (L) And how did you die? A: War Q: (L) And why are you here? A: Zoom out of this place quick Q: (L) In other words, you wish to be released into the light? All you have to do is look around. And everywhere you look, you see this light. Everywhere you look, you see a glowing light. And if you keep looking that in one particular spot, it's a bit brighter than in any other spot. And as soon as you notice that, that grows closer. As it grows closer, all you have to do is go toward it. Just go toward the light. Go towards the light. Go towards the light. Total release, total peace. Go toward the light.{This exchange above demonstrates a short version of differential diagnosis. All entities must be questioned and tested. Then, if identification of "dead dude" is made, the formula for release is applied. Until a channel is thoroughly grooved and a particular identification dynamic is established, this process must be followed every time with every entity. When an entity is refused, sent on its way, the channel is cleared.} Q: Alright, is anyone there? A: Yes Q: (L) And who do we have with us? A: Hodo Q: (L) And did you ever have a body of your own? A: Look learn quick Q: (L) And what does "look learn quick" mean? A: Men are going to die soon Q: (L) What men? A: Many Q: (L) Where? A: Near to Bilderbergers near Q: (L) And what are they going to die from? A: Plot Q: (L) Okay. Like I said, do you have a name? A: Gave name Q: (L) And did you ever have a physical body of your own? A: Look learn Q: (L) What does "look learn" mean? A: Next gift near knowledge Laura Q: (L) You're not making a whole lot of sense. A: Follow the knowledge Q: (L) Follow the knowledge of what? A: Grooving.{At this point, mental blocking is put up and silent request to Cassiopaea made. The other activity ceased and the energy changed.} Q: [Planchette starts making circles in a counter-clockwise direction] (L) Is there a reason for all these multiple circles? A: Driving now! Q: (L) And what is your name? A: Kojin of Cassiopaea Q: (L) And how do I know that you're Kojin of Cassiopaea? A: Ask! Q: (L) Ask what? A: Whatever you like! Q: (L) Well, what was all this spinning about, and what was all this hodge podge messing around about? A: Interference. Needed cooperation for grooving. Q: (L) What kind of interference? A: HAARP-like beamed at you. Q: (L) And how long has this been going on? A: Off and on for some time. Q: (L) And what is the source of this? Is this a 3rd density or 4th density source of energy? A: Both. You have been tracked for a long time now. Q: (L) Well, why don't they just bump us off if we're such a pain in the whatever? A: They can't. Q: (L) Why? A: We cannot tell you that as it would interfere with mission. Q: (Galaxia) Why would it interfere with the mission? A: If you know why you will anticipate and possibly make mistakes fatal to yourself. Let us just say that "they" know that harm to you would result in their own total destruction along a more negative timeline. Q: (L) Well, if my death would bring about their destruction, then maybe it would be a good idea for me to check out, right? Well, isn't that what we want? (Belibaste) Why would it lead to their destruction? A: Again, we cannot tell you all. But know that there is no chance for a positive outcome for Earth and the future without the presence. Q: (L) So, there's no chance for a positive outcome without me, and yet my death would ensure their total destruction. A: And all else! Q: (Perceval) Maybe it's got something to do with balance, ya know? The universe wanting balance. There's a higher power in the universe that allows things to play out as long as there's some kind of balance. But if you weren't here, then this world would be a completely dark, negative star, and there'd be some mechanism that would destroy it and everything associated with it. A: Yes. Q: (L) That's really depressing though to think that we ARE the only balancing energy... out of 7 billion people on the planet?! (Perceval) The only reason that the whole thing hasn't already gone up in smoke is because some few people are making an effort. It's rather magnanimous of the universe to consider such a small group of people. (L) How did we get off on this topic? (Galaxia) Oh, so that's why we all feel so bad: because we're being HAARPed. (L) Oh yeah! So is that what's behind our various negative experiences of late that's been kind of rotating around the house like some kind of bug being passed around? A: Yes. Q: (Galaxia) Is that why we were all vomiting? (Perceval) And other things? A: Yes. Q: (L) So they're beaming beams at us that are jiggling our cells around. A: Yes. Q: (Galaxia) So it doesn't have anything to do with this "Cosmic-itis" that we were theorizing about? A: It is "cosmic"! Q: (Belibaste) This beaming, do they beam each individual? A: No. Q: (Belibaste) So they beam an area? A: Yes. Q: (Belibaste) And like right now, they're beaming... A: It can target a room too. Q: (L) So they can narrow it down to a room. (Perceval) Is there anything we can do to defend against or protect against such beamification? (Ark) Like spray the roof with something? (Perceval) Will our new roof help? [laughter] A: You are doing well so far. When the need increases, so will the knowledge. Q: (L) Well I have to say that I did much, much better today. I had been in that horrible state for a couple of weeks, and I did much better today with my cortisone and that little bit of DLPA. I don't know if I'll take any more tomorrow. It really helped. I would suggest that anybody else who feels like they’re falling into the pit, try it too. But you don't want to take it more than two or three days. (Belibaste) So the diet and supplements made us less sensitive to this beaming? A: Yes. Q: (L) Speaking of diet, that leads me to my question. Hold on here, let me get my page. Since our awakening in respect of vegetarianism versus meat eating, and that awakening quite by chance, by experience, by experiment, by learning things, by ya know, hard lessons, we've been publishing a lot of material that we've been finding because of course coming to some realizations has propelled us or induced us to search for the material, the research, that explains what we experienced in the vegetarian vs. meat eating experiments. So, we have been publishing these things, and as we've been publishing things along that line, things about gluten, about the evils of dairy, about lectins and plant foods, about the necessity for eating more meat, and eating much more fat, and basically just that the Paleo diet is best suited for the human being, we've attracted a whole lot of what I can only describe as "vegetarian trolls". I mean, they're like fanatics. So last night, I was thinking about this. And while the authoritarian personality as defined and described by Bob Altemeyer can easily explain some of these behaviors, what we really come down to again is another split. I mean, you have the split between people who know that consciousness exists outside of the body, or that consciousness exists prior to the body. And then you have the Darwinists where consciousness is a byproduct of material evolution. And of course, the Darwinists are the Big Bang type people too, which is really kind of a really bizarre creation theory. So, you get this subdivision. You have the people who are Darwinists and Big Bangers, and then you have people who are fundamentalists who basically, in a funny sort of way, are like the Darwinists because they too believe in a miraculous creation. So even though they may seem, or may appear to be, on exactly opposite sides of the fence, in a certain sense they're both authoritarian-type personalities. Which kind of highlights what Altmeyer said about authoritarians. They follow the beliefs, dictates, or ideas of the constituted authorities according to what they're brought up with. An authoritarian personality in Moscow would believe that communism - maybe not today, but at some time - that communism is the best way of life. Do or die, communism is what's real and good and proper. And the same individual, the same personality type on the other side of the ocean in the United States believes that capitalism is the best option. In other words, people are brought up with certain authorities in their lives that espouse certain ideas about things, and they're acclimated or enculturated to these ideas. Their personalities make them follow it slavishly - that being the key word: slavishly. It seems to be that this same divide - even though the divide is not defined by an ideology, because any ideology serves this slavish following - what is different is the slavishness of the follower versus the person who actually cares about the facts and is able to emerge from their enculturated conditioning and consider other ideas. So, hang on, I'm going somewhere here! So, the thing is Altemeyer wrote another book about "amazing conversions" where he gathered data and analyzed people who had been born in a strongly religious family and background, and experienced a lot of this programming as they were growing up. But then, they grew up and emerged from it. They didn't necessarily turn against it, but they stopped believing, they changed their minds, they became something else. And then there were also people who were brought up in completely non-religious environments. Some of them were even anti-religious, who then, when they grew up, converted to religion or fundamentalism. Usually it's fundamentalism when they do these conversions. Most people don't convert to Catholicism or Methodism, they convert to fundamentalism. So, the key thing that he noticed about the people who grew up in non-religious households and then converted to religion was that most of them had very serious psychological issues. They were abused, damaged in some way, and just basically there was not something inside them that helped them to come to terms with themselves, or life, or the world. So they had to seek, basically, a savior on the outside or something that would give them the answers. Because once again, they were individuals who needed someone or something to follow slavishly. And then about the people who converted out of religion, they were quite different all the way around. They were more independent. There was such a variety of them because they could think and do and be somewhat differently. Some of them became atheists, some of them became spiritual - but not religious. They followed all different paths. They were very individualistic. But the main thing was that they had a strong inner belief in what was right. In a funny sort of way, their religious background actually really worked on them. It led them to search for the truth even if they came to the idea that they could not find the truth or that it certainly was not to be found in their religion. It was ingrained in them that religion was about truth, and they themselves were more intelligent than their peers. They were people who made good grades, were successful in intellectual endeavors. And then they came to the idea that using their minds to find the truth was a useful way to get through or understand life. So, they used their minds to search for truth, which was inculcated in them as the highest value, and that search was turned on their religion which didn’t stand up very well to scrutiny. So, you have these two different kinds of people. Once again, there is this divide between people who want or need to be slaves, and people who individuate, who are able to do this against all odds – certainly against their family, social and cultural programming. I mean most of these people who become free of religions because they wanted the truth, simply discovered that their religions were not - they didn't consider them to be adequate explanations of anything. They weren't believable. So these people, they wanted the truth and they were individualistic and they were completely different from the slavish followers who, even if they were brought up in anti-religious households, needed to “find religion” because they NEEDED to be slaves! Just as some individuals “find” Darwinism and become slaves of it. Or any other idea that is followed slavishly.. I guess what I'm getting to is that I'm seeing this again in the issue about vegetarianism. Now, all things being equal, we gave the strong vegetarian approach a really good try. During that period of time, all of us had issues and we kept referring it to detox. You're detoxing, you've got detox symptoms. And that's what nearly everybody who was on these detox diets talks about. "Oh, you're having detox symptoms." And of course we believe that there is a certain amount of detoxing that is needed and can be done, but to go on forever having detox symptoms every time you turn around and that everything is written off to detox symptoms is kind of - you wonder when is it going to end? When is your body going to start working on detoxing on a regular cyclical basis in a 24-hour period so that you don't have to go through some horrible ordeal every three or four days. And of course there was the experience that Atriedes had that led to a few little clues that in fact, vegetables may not be as good as they're cracked up to be. So now we have all of these vegetarians. And they're fanaticism is amazing. However, I thought about this last night. I starting thinking: Ya know, there are people who are like cockroaches: they can survive on anything. Some of these people say, "Oh, I'm very, very healthy. I've never had any problems. I've never lost any weight. I didn't lose any strength." Ya know, if somebody tells you that, maybe it's true. I don't know the person personally, but I'm going to accept the fact that maybe they're telling the truth. On the other hand, I've known a lot of vegetarians who are not healthy. They may feel alright for awhile, and it may be kind of a relative thing: they don't know how good they could feel, so they think they feel relatively well. But then they develop some kind of sickness and they die and people wonder about it because their diet was so “healthy”. And then they go after the people who eat meat and say, "Oh, you're meat eaters, you're always sick!" Well, the problem is that those people who are ordinary meat eaters that are being accused of always being sick are not really eating a Paleo diet. They are eating meat along with all kinds of corrupt and polluted and toxic foods. Drinking sodas, eating lots of carbs, etc. Because if you're eating a Paleo diet, you're minimizing carbs and not eating dairy and all that stuff. So, anyhow, what I'm getting to is that while I was thinking about all of this, I was thinking about this divide once again between the slavish following of something, and being able to have the courage to say, "I was doing that, I tried it, there were problems, I began to explore, and I learned this and this and this and tried something different." There's this divide, this split. I started wondering about people who are fanatical vegetarians. I'm not talking about people who can be a vegetarian and maybe if they really receive some information that suggests that being a vegetarian is not such a good, they could then change. Which is kind of what happened to a lot of people we know and a lot of people in our group... We can name a dozen or so people who were strict vegetarians for 20 years, and they've stopped being vegetarians and their health improved! So then, I remembered something that was said in a session on October 7, 1995 when we were discussing another topic entirely, but what come out what was this exchange: Q: (L) But isn't the nature of a person determined by their soul and not the physical body? A: Partially, remember, aural profile and karmic reference merges with physical structure. Q: (L) So you are saying that particular genetic conditions are a physical reflection of a spiritual orientation? That the soul must match itself to the genetics, even if only in potential? A: Yes, precisely. Q: (L) So a person's potential for spiritual advancement or unfoldment is, to a great extent, dependent on their genes? A: Natural process marries with systematic construct when present. So, after this long preamble and introduction, my question is: Is it possible that there is a genetic profile of a vegetarian who actually does do well on a vegetable diet, a vegetarian diet? That is, being a human being which is supposed according to all standards to be carnivore? A: Somewhat on the right track but the question is not as precise as it could be. Q: (L) Okay, let me try again. You said, "...aural profile and karmic reference merges with physical structure." (Galaxia) Oh, maybe because they are slavish, vegetables are good for them? (L) Well, that's not where I want to go yet. So, the soul must match itself to the genetics, even if only in potential. Oh boy... How to ask this... I once asked if vegetarian was the way that one should eat, and you said that no, not generally, as that was concentrating on the physical. What did you mean exactly by that? Let's see if I can come at this in a sideways direction. A: Most vegetarians are such, believing that it is more "spiritual". This is a belief that eating a certain way will change the nature or destiny or tendencies of the soul. This is as effective as confessing one's sins to a priest and doing penance and then sinning again. Besides, as you have noted, the vegetarians you have encountered have been singularly "unspiritual". Q: (L) Okay, let me try to ask it this way: Is the fact that we eat meat detrimental to us spiritually? A: Absolutely not. Q: (L) But I would say that just the eating of meat is not a spiritual issue at all. (Perceval) Eating food is a thing of the body. (L) Yeah, I mean we just try to eat in an optimal way to give our bodies the right fuel so that we can do our other work. That's our whole thing is to give the body optimal fuel. A: There is the difference, see? You eat for optimal fuel, they eat to support an illusion. Q: (L) Well, they don't all eat to support an illusion. A lot of them think that vegetables are an optimal fuel illusion. (Perceval) But they couldn't think that if they really objectively read all the details. A: They lack objective knowledge. Q: (L) Okay then. (Perceval) I was saying that in the scheme of things, plants eat rocks, animals eat plants, and some eat other animals. But from a physical point of view in the hierarchy that humans would eat... (Burma Jones) If only seems that way if you understand densities, but in terms of what they think, physically we're just animals to them. (Perceval) But I wasn't talking about them, I was talking about in respect of our understanding... A: Yes, you just hit upon an important point: The genetic body tends toward the animal nature. Note that we said "tends". In those of the "fanatical" vegetarian nature, this tendency is very strong. In fact, you could even say that there is strong identification with the genetic body and all it is connected to energetically. Q: (L) So what do you mean, "strong identification with the genetic body and all it is connected to energetically"? Is that what I was thinking, that these fanatical vegetarians do not want to eat meat because for them, it's like eating their own kind? For them, eating a cow is like cannibalism because they identify with the animal kingdom so strongly that...? A: Yes. Q: (L) So, that would lead to the next part of what I was thinking last night, which is that some - and I'm not saying ALL - really fanatical vegetarians of the slavish authoritarian follower type personality could be, can you say the word for me there, Belibaste? (Belibaste) OP's. (L) Organic portals? A: Yes. Q: (L) Okay. (Galaxia) So basically they're people with the essence of an animal? A: Yes. Q: (L) They identify with the energetic... (Galaxia) They look like people, but they're not. A: Yes. Q: (Galaxia) They don't eat cows because they have the essence of a cow! A: Yes. Q: (Ark) They care more about the cows than about other human beings. A: Yes. Q: (L) That means they have empathy for animals - that is, their own spiritual kind - and not for humans. A: Yes. Q: (Burma Jones) Is that also why psychopaths can be so kind towards animals while they treat humans with such indifference? A: Yes. Though psychopaths often are brutal toward all that cannot contribute to their aims. Q: (L) So they would be kind to animals only if it suits them. (Ark) But I understand that our hero Gandhi was vegetarian and yet he cared about human beings. (Perceval) Was Gandhi an organic portal? A: Gandhi "cared" about the human cattle like himself. Q: (L) Well, what about the fact that for example the Cathars were supposed to be vegetarian? Cathars were the ones that were the Perfecti. They were vegetarian and they didn't eat meat. A: They didn't succeed in surviving either! Q: (Galaxia) Can I ask a question? Does all this mean that vegetarians are more inclined towards cannibalism? A: No. Q: (L) No, what I was saying that they would perceive... (Galaxia) I know, but I was saying that since they have such disregard for people... (L) Oh, I see what you're saying. Would they have less feeling for people and be inclined to eat them under certain circumstances? (Galaxia) Yes. (Perceval) Given the choice, would they eat a person or a cow? (Galaxia) If they were starving? A: In some cases, perhaps, but not generally. Q: (Ailen) Now, among vegetarians, you could say there are two groups. There's the group that says they feel better, they don't want to kill animals, they feel more sorry for animals than for veggies. They kind of stop there - they don't have spiritual ideas. On the other hand, there are those vegetarians who say that humans eat meat and therefore they are attached to physical reality. So by eating veggies and then fasting or sungazing for example, they're going to become illumined beings. So those are two different groups. So what is the intrinsic difference between them? A: Two variations on the same theme! Q: (L) The kind that just don't want to be cruel to animals identify with the animals more strongly. They just don't have anything else. And then those that think it's spiritual, they're just kind of like New Age fundies. (Ailen) Yeah, but I was thinking that there might be some kind of difference in their essence or genes in the sense that some of them make a choice... A: Not really. The only evidence for "soul potential" is the realization that the body is just a machine and needs optimal fuel. Q: (L) Okay, there's something else I'm thinking about. Getting back to this genetic construct marrying with the physical potential... It seems that higher soul potential has been historically associated with physical problems. It's like the soul, being a strong energy, expresses itself through the body, and if the soul is unhappy, or if the soul is ill at ease, or if it's in distress, or for some reason not at peace as it is very easy to be in this day and time when there is so much cruelty and insanity rampant on the Earth, that these people with higher soul potentials tend to have more physical problems and disabilities. Is that going in a proper direction? A: Yes. Q: (L) So, individuals with the soul potential whose soul afflicts the body with its issues need to really understand the body, give it optimal fuel, and learn how to deal with the soul issues themselves separately or in a soul-based way. A: Yes. Q: (L) I mean it's like the whole Ra thing was about Wanderers. Wanderers according to the traditional definition are people who tend to have... (Psyche) They're more sensitive. (L) They're more sensitive, and they have to be more efficiently nourished and have better fuel and they have to really be careful with detoxification. And those people it seems to me would be susceptible to the belief that being a vegetarian would help them - only it wouldn't! A: Yes. Carla is an example! Q: (L) Yeah, Carla of the Ra group. She is just practically crippled with arthritis. I don't know what she eats, but the Paleo diet might do her some good. (Ailen) But then you have psychopaths who are very sick, too. (L) Yeah. I think that sometimes it's just a roll of the genetic dice. But in some cases, there's this connection. (Psyche) And we're exposed to too much toxicity these days. (L) Okay, have we done this subject? (Ark) Yes, I have a question. From a higher point of view - not just ethics and such things - but from the higher philosophical point of view, what's really wrong with cannibalism? (L) What's really wrong with cannibalism? (Perceval) We may or may not publish this answer. [laughter] A: In some instances, nothing. But in general one does not eat one's own kind for energetic reasons. Carnivores do not eat other carnivores because it is not optimal energy source. Q: (L) In other words, we get optimal energy from eating creatures that eat vegetables. That way, we get our vegetables. But another carnivore processes all of that so that what we would get from eating another carnivore would not be optimal nutrition? A: Yes. Q: (Andromeda) But then we could eat vegetarians. [laughter] A: Don't laugh! That has been the case for some groups at certain times and places. In fact, that is still the case in some dark circles extant on Earth today. As we once pointed out, higher density beings derive nourishment from some humans and human body products. Preferred are fat children and nonsmoking vegetarians. Q: (Psyche) There are some religions that say that you have to be vegetarians. (Burma Jones) They're basically just farms for 4D STS looking for a good lunch. (Belibaste) Good food. And it's organic vegetarians usually! (PoB) Does it mean that the meat from meat-eating predators is not good for us? (L) That's what they said, yes. (Burma Jones) So then India is just one big cattle ranch. (L) And with so many people that they have there, nobody would even notice when people go missing. People go missing there all the time. (Burma Jones) And they have the worst poverty in the world. (Belibaste) Remember in the sessions they were talking about the missing children, and there was a lot from India - vegetarian children. (L) The loss of children of India is just stupendous. Unbelievable. Let me get this next question in. In a previous session, we were trying to get the size or the dimensions of Comet Elenin, and I had the feeling that somehow I screwed up and... A: Yes. Q: (L) I did. [laughter] Because I was thinking thoughts at the time and whatever. So, I'm just going to take myself completely out of this and ask again: What size is Comet Elenin? A: 5km on the short axis and close to 10 on the long axis. Q: (L) What I did is I messed it up when they were trying to do 5 by 10, I made it 500. They went 5... Yeah, I don't know what they did. Okay, does anybody have anything else they want to talk about? (Perceval) There's a question about crop circles. (L) Yeah, I saw that but I thought it was kind of a dorky question. "Why have this year's crop circles been so lame?" (Perceval) Andromeda dictated it, and I just typed it. [laughter] A: 6D has begun to withdraw from the fray. Q: (L) Well, what do you mean by, "withdraw from the fray"? A: As we have pointed out before, the crop circles were an almanac. The last page is soon to turn. Q: (L) Well that makes me think of something. Reading all of these analyses about the Odyssey, it's almost like the Odyssey is an epic story that describes a world similar to our own. When Odysseus comes back to his home, he finds it occupied by these psychopathic, consuming, partying, drunken, rude, obnoxious people. He himself comes into his own as a stranger, a beggar, is treated like dirt, insulted, things are thrown at him... Basically, that's kind of like what our world is doing today. The poor are being oppressed. It's like the whole global elite is acting the part of these suitors in the Odyssey, and Odysseus is everybody else in a certain sense. Just reading this story, it's like apocalyptic. People start behaving that way and it's like they bring down destruction on their own heads. Am I kind of on to something here? A: Yes. And it is a good exercise for your forum because it will convey many truths at a deep level. Q: (L) Anybody else? (Ark) I mean, who is going to play the role of Athena? A: No dice! Q: (Galaxia) What did Athena do? (Ark) Well, without her, the suitors would win. (L) So you're not going to tell us that? A: Let us just say: Help is on the way!! Goodbye. END OF SESSION
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Laura (L) i Andromeda za pločom Prisutni: Pierre, Perceval, PoB, Chu, Niall, Ark, Data, Scottie, Alana, Timótheos, Noko Wonderdog (pas, op. prev.) [Bilješka: razina audio snimanja bila je vrlo niska, puno niža nego inače.] Pitanje (P) : (L) Subota je, 7. veljače 2015. I kunem se, prije 30 godina, nisam ni sanjala da ću biti živa na ovaj današnji dan. (Perceval) Zašto? (L) Ne znam. Mislim, 2012. je trebala biti smak svijeta. [smijeh] Svi su govorili da će se 2012. godine sve promijeniti. (Perceval) New Age CoIntelPro! (L) Da, i onda su došli Kasiopejci i rekli: “Ne, žao nam je!! Morate još ostati tamo i uraditi neke stvari.“ I ja jednostavno… Ja nisam bila sigurna. (Pierre) Ja sam mislio da će to biti kraća agonija. Nisam mislio da će potrajati toliko puno godina da sve propadne. (L) Da, propadanje i propast svega je bilo… (Andromeda) Sporo… (L) To je jednostavno grozno. (Pierre) A ono što je najluđe je to što svaki put kad smo mislili da smo napokon stigli do samog dna, oni su uvijek pronašli načine da stvari naprave još gorima. Vražje je mučenje svjedočiti tome! (Andromeda) Hvala, Pierre! [smijeh] (L) Ovo nam je dalo tako veseo početak večeri! (Pierre) Ali pomoć stiže! (L) Da, baš. Bojim se pitati kakva pomoć stiže… (PoB) Pitaj njih. Trebamo konkretne podatke. Što oni misle pod tim? [smijeh] (Perceval) Nema kockanja. Odgovor (O): Dobro veče ljudi. Nema žurbe za tim što dolazi kako bi donijelo ravnotežu vašoj realnosti. P: (L) Drugim riječima, vi tvrdite da ne bi trebali biti nestrpljivi za tim? O: Da. P: (L) Pa, to izgleda prilično turobno sada. Ljudi ili umiru, ili se poriče da ljudi umiru; ili oni pate, ili se okreću leđa od patnje drugih ljudi. (Pierre) I još sve te laži. (L) To je… O: Prirodne podjele se formiraju kad su ljudi suočeni s metežom i neredom. P: (L) Dakle, to ispada da stvarno saznaš kakve su zaista ljudi osobe – tek kad stvari postanu tako očite da ih oni više ne mogu poricati, osim ekstremnim činom pukog pokrivanja svojih očiju i ušiju, i zatvaranja usta. O: Da. P: (L) Pa, mi smo baš žestoke face ovdje večeras! O: Hahaha! P: [kroz smijeh] (Perceval) Oni to rade da se urnebesno nasmiju. (L) Nisam pitala s kim pričamo. Imamo li ime večeras? O: Glagira od Kasiopeje. P: (L) Stvar je u tome da nisam baš sigurna da li itko ima ikakva ozbiljna pitanja za večeras… Mislim, ja imam svoja istraživačka pitanja, ali ima li itko drugi ikakva pitanja? Zaglušujuća tišina. Ok, itko? Mislim, ispada da mi sad samo sjedimo i čekamo da neko nešto kaže. (Andromeda) Ja znam. Znamo da je cijeli svijet potpuno poludio. I mi čekamo neki znak da nam kaže trebamo li nešto učiniti, kao na primjer učiniti neki potez, pomaknuti se negdje, ili nešto slično tome. Ali se ne mogu sjetiti ničega da uistinu pitam. (Perceval) Hoćemo li se morati preseliti u Rusiju? [smijeh] (PoB) Ja sam htjela pitati trebamo li se preseliti u Rusiju? O: Sačekajte pa vidite! [Svi uzvikuju slova zajedno] P: [smijeh] (Perceval) Jesu li Lavrov ili Putin pročitali Laurino pismo? O: Istrage su u tijeku. P: (Niall) Oni nas provjeravaju. (Scottie) Znači dobra je stvar što smo dodali SOTT na ruskom. (Chu) Trebamo li zatvoriti francuski SOTT? O: Ne još, ali budite oprezni. [Noko priča tijekom slušanja odgovora] P: (Perceval) Istraga je otvorena… Istraga o tebi. (L) A joj… (Andromeda) Je li Putin pročitao pismo? O: Da. P: (Pierre) Da? Wow, to je super! To je dobra vijest dana. Dakle on ga je pročitao… (Ark) Možda ga je pokazao Hollandeu tijekom njihova sastanka… [smijeh] (Chu) Zato je sastanak i trajao 5 sati. [smijeh] (L) Oni su sastančili pet sati? (Perceval) U načelu, čini se da je rezultat tog sastanka u tome da je Amerika jako ljuta zbog činjenice da Njemačka i Francuska ne podupiru naoružavanje Ukrajinaca. McCain kritizira i govori: “Njima nije stalo do ljudi koji umiru i pate u Ukrajini!” Jer u osnovi, ako Njemačka i Francuska ne pristanu na američki plan za naoružavanje Kijeva kako bi se pobilo sve u Istočnoj Ukrajini, oni ne mogu ništa učiniti, jer to mora biti pod okriljem NATO-a; NATO baze u Europi koje bi se koristile za bilo koji tip takvoga postupka su u Njemačkoj, Italiji, i sankcionirane su od strane europskih zemalja. (Niall) Oni su u osnovi pristali da se Ukrajina podijeli. (Pierre) Tražili su više autonomije za Istočnu Ukrajinu, i zonu bez oružja između dviju zona. (Perceval) Demilitarizirana zona. Europljani su u razgovoru s Putinom odlučili da treba postojati neka vrsta jake autonomne regije kako bi se okončali sukobi, dok Amerika govori: “Ne! Rat! Rat! Mi mrzimo Rusiju!” I Hollande i Merkel se sastaju s Putinom. O: Pisma koja Putin prima daju mu nadu. P: (Pierre) To je stvarno dobro. (Scottie) Pisao sam mu o Spomenu na holokaust. Bio sam vrlo ljut i zaista sam se osjećao jako loše zbog Rusije. Mislim, više je Rusa umrlo u Drugom svjetskom ratu nego ljudi iz bilo koje druge zemlje ili grupe… procjene su između 21 i 27 milijuna Rusa! Napisao sam mu pismo kada on nije bio pozvan na spomen holokausta u Poljskoj. Bilo je… osjećajno i iskreno. (Perceval) Svi bi trebali početi pisati pisma potpore. (Pierre) Da, zašto da ne! (L) Dižite njegovo raspoloženje. Da, baš kao što se mi osjećamo kad dobijemo pisma… [Pišite Putinu: http://eng.letters.kremlin.ru/] (Pierre) Pa zamislite tog čovjeka: toliko je mnogo pritisaka: političkih, ekonomskih, financijskih… A on nađe vremena da čita pisma! (L) I oklevetan je od najvećih, najglasnijih majstora propagande u cijelom svijetu. Mi smo bili klevetani dugo vremena od propagandnih majstora, ali to je bilo vrlo, vrlo malih razmjera u usporedbi s ovim što se njemu radi. Da, to nas je oštetilo, i mene osobno je povrijedilo, i sve nas je to osobno povrijedilo, ali to je još uvijek bilo tako malih razmjera, tako da sve što nama to iskustvo može dati je samo jedan mali uvid u to što Putin doživljava. On je ljudsko biće. I sada, ono što bi trebala biti “Najveća nacija na Zemlji” ga naziva svakakvim nazivima, osim inkarnacijom samog đavola – ali vjerojatno su ga čak i tako nazvali! (Perceval) Da, doslovno ga zovu Hitlerom. (L) Da, to mora da je grozan osjećaj. (Pierre) Ako nisi psihopat, ako si normalno ljudsko biće, osjetljivo, i ako si pod teretom svih ovih kritika, i ako vidiš sve laži… to može biti vrlo bolno. (Alana) Razmišljala sam o njemu prošle noći, i o položaju u kojem se nalazi, i o opasnosti u kojoj je, i on vjerojatno sebi čak ne dozvoljava da ima bliske odnose, jer će oni postati njegove slabosti. (Perceval) Da, svjestan je toga. (L) Ja mislim da je on u potpunosti svjestan toga. Putin mi daje nadu. (Perceval) To je usamljenički život. (L) Ali ja sam jako uplašena za njega. (Pierre) Ali ja sam zabrinut za njega. Ako on nestane, što će ostati? (L) To bi uništilo svaku nadu. (Alana) Ja imam pitanje o grčkoj vladi i o novoizabranom vodstvu. Čini se da ono što oni rade i ono za što se zalažu – ljudima u Grčkoj daje nadu. I ja bih zaista željela u potpunosti se isto tako ponadati, ali kao da samu sebe nekako zadržavam, jer nisam baš sigurna je li to… Čak ne znam ni kako bih ovo izrazila… (Pierre) Želiš znati jesu li oni dobri dečki, ili, hoće li uspjeti? (Alana) Da, ali čak i ako oni jesu dobri dečki, još je uvijek velika vjerojatnost da neće uspjeti u ovom svijetu. To je prva ljevičarska vlada ikad na vlasti u Grčkoj, i najmlađa ikad. To je prvi put u grčkoj povijesti, da stare obitelji koje su uvijek bile na vlasti više nisu tamo kao predstavnici grčke elite. Nova vlada ima planove. Oni žele da… O: Njima će trebati pomoć i oni to znaju. Ostaje da se nadamo da mladenački entuzijazam može biti upregnut strpljenjem i mudrošću. P: (Niall) U načelu, oni su postavili izazov cijeloj Europi. Što se događa tamo ovisi o tome što se događa u drugim europskim zemljama. Oni trebaju sličnu rekaciju po cijeloj Europi. (Pierre) Ili rusku pomoć. (Alana) I Rusija im je već ponudila pomoć. O: Ruska će pomoć napraviti razliku. P: (Alana) To i ja mislim. (L) Dakle, čini se da se Grčka raspada. Island se već raspao. A sada se čini da Njemačka i Francuska klize… (Niall) Ono što se dogodilo na Islandu – je to da se on zapravo oporavio. (L) Ne, mislila sam na to da oni nisu zapravo išli usporedo s planom EU-a. To govorim. Kad kažem: ”Raspali su se” to znači da nisu išli usporedo sa službenim programom. (Perceval) To je tehnički izraz: raspad. Dakle, postoji očito još uvijek nekoliko pravih glupana. (Chu) I Španjolska može, ako ova stranka Podemos pobijedi… (Pierre) Italija je na rubu. (L) Izgleda da Američka koalicija glupana… (Perceval) Postaje svjesna! (L) I raspada se. O: Ne spremajte ražanj… P: (Perceval) Ne spremajte ražanj dok je zec još u šumi… (L) I mislim da to vrijedi za obje strane. O: Da. P: (L) Dakle, postoji mnoštvo raznih zanimljivih stvari koje bi se mogle dogoditi. O: Ipak, ništa neće zaustaviti uravnoteženje. Jedino je pitanje gdje će doći do katastrofe, a to je djelomično uvjetovano promatračima. P: (Perceval) Dakle, objektivno promatranje stvarnosti imat će veću vjerojatnost da donese katastrofe onim populacijama koje su najmanje pronicljive ili najmanje točne? O: Ortogonalni ili usklađeni? P: (L) Dakle ovisi jesu li njihova promatranja ortogonalana ili usklađena s objektivnom stvarnošću. Mogu li promijeniti temu? (Pierre) Da. (L) Dobro, moj, uh …… O: 4 mjeseca će otkriti dramatične promjene. P: (Pierre) Lipanj. Dramatične promjene u kom polju? (Perceval) Bez kockanja. (Pierre) Aww… Oni stavljaju mamac pred nas! O: To je sve što ćete dobiti! P: (Perceval) Vidiš? [smijeh] Znači li to tijekom sljedeća 4 mjeseca ili tijekom 4 mjeseca? (Chu) Ili nakon sljedeća 4 mjeseca… O: Bez kockanja. P: (L) Neće vam reći ništa više. (Perceval) Niti mi ne treba. Shvatit ćemo mi to. (Scottie) Da, mogao sam vam ja reći da neke dramatične promjene dolaze u naredna 4 mjeseca. Mislim, samo pogledajte svijet … (Perceval) Da, ali nisi! [smijeh] Nisi mi rekao! (Chu) Ali 4 mjeseca, ne 3! (Scottie) Vrijeme je varijabilno! O: Mi uživamo kad vi učite i ostajete pozorni. P: (L) Dobro, kad smo već kod učenja, zaista sam, ali zaista sam zatrpana ovim knjigama. Ark me u ovom može podržati. Količina stvari koju čitam je vrlo intenzivna. Ja doslovno spavam dok čitam, ili čitam dok spavam. Nije šala. Ustanem se i počnem čitati sat ili dva prije nego se uopće pojavim na doručku. Onda doručkujem, i vratim se i opet čitam, i čitam, i čitam… I čitam dok ne odem u krevet. I onda uzmem knjigu sa sobom u krevet, i čitam u krevetu. (Perceval) Dakle, pokušavaš reći da si jako puno čitala. (L) Aha. (PoB) To je nešto novo! (Pierre) Dakle, puno si učila i zaslužuješ nekoliko odgovora. (L) Da, upravo na to ciljam. [smijeh] Radila sam zaista, ali zaista jako puno i zaista bih voljela dobiti nekoliko malih odgovora. Dakle, prva stvar koju sam otkrila je ta da mi se čini da je židovski Isus bio sastavljen od književnih elemenata nekoliko različitih karaktera o kojima je pisao Josip. To su bili Simon iz Pereje, bio je Juda Galilejac, a bilo je i nekoliko drugih iako se ne mogu sjetiti njihovih imena. Svi ti momci bili su više revolucionari nego bilo što drugo. Ali, naravno, kao što znamo, ono što je jednom čovjeku revolucionar ili terorist, drugom je čovjeku to borac za slobodu. Oni su u osnovi bili posvećeni svojoj religiji, židovskoj vjeri, i nisu mogli podnijeti pomisao da Rimljani žive u njihovom Svetom gradu i da vladaju njihovim Svetim gradom, imenuju njihove svećenike, i u osnovi im govore što trebaju raditi. Prema njihovoj religiji i njihovim jakim religijskim uvjerenjima, jedini vladar kojeg su trebali imati je Bog, a Božju volju posredovali su svećenici. Svećenike su birali ljudi, a ne rimski prokurator. Dakle, oni su bili zaista vrlo nesretni, i možete shvatiti da su imali ozbiljan problem. Dakle, oni su gurali i proklamirali puno stroži oblik svoje religije nekim od ovih skupina, a Josip to opisuje kao Četvrtu filozofiju. Oni su prikupili potporu među svim ljudima Judeje / Izraela / Palestine, kako god ju nazivali, za veliki revolucionarni pritisak protiv Rimljana. To je ono što ja vidim kao izvornu skupinu koju su ljudi kasnije nazvali Jeruzalemskom crkvom. To zapravo i nije bila kršćanska crkva u nijednom smislu te riječi. To je bila skupina koja je prije svega bila vjerska, ali ispod i iza kulisa, oni su doslovno poticali pobunu i koordinirali nadolazeću revoluciju i naoružavali ljude, i pripremali se na vjersku i materijalnu pobunu protiv Rima. Ok, je li to točno što sam dosad opisala? O: Da. P: (L) U redu. Dakle, sljedeća stvar, čini mi se da je Pavao… Prije svega, on možda jest, a možda i nije bio iz Tarza, ali on vjerojatno nije bio rimski građanin, kako ga prikazuju Djela apostolska. To je samo bilo književno sredstvo da ga se uvede u Rim na određeni način. On je bio helenistički židov koji je živio ili u Damasku ili Antiohiji ili u tim područjima. Čini mi se da su židovi iz Jeruzalema koji su bili pripadnici te revolucionarne skupine došli na njegovo područje, i da su tamo vrbovali ljude, koristeći svoje religijske udice. Tada je on počeo da ih progoni. On kaže da je bio farizej, a oni su bili vrlo, vrlo strogi oblik judaizma, tako da je bilo prirodno da se stvori sukob između njih. Jesam li u pravu dosad o tome? O: Da. P: (L) U redu, dakle, to je zapravo bio opseg progona, to da je on bio farizej, i da je potaknuo i druge farizeje protiv njih. Mislim da je vrlo vjerojatno da se kamenovanje Stjepana nikada nije dogodio. Jesam li u pravu? O: Da. P: (L) Dakle, čini se da su neki od revolucionarnih vođa, počevši od Simona iz Pereje i Jude, i Mateja, koji možda jesu, a možda nisu bili ubijeni za vrijeme Heroda Velikog, čini se da je postojalo uvjerenje da su oni bili “uskrsnuli” u određenom apokaliptičnom smislu. Bio je pronađen kamen, s natpisom, nazvan Gabrijelov kamen otkrivenja, pri čemu Israel Knohl, koji je napisao knjigu o tome i koji to sve tumači, vjeruje da se kamen odnosi na smrt Šimuna iz Pereje. Je li to tako? O: Da. P: (L) A Šimunu iz Perea je rečeno, u tom natpisu, da će tri dana nakon svoje smrti uskrsnuti. Njemu je rečeno da uskrsne. Također je u tom natpisu implicirano da je krv mučenika, kao što su Šimun i drugi, a koje je Josip možda pogrešno prikazao, bila poput neke vrste magnetske tvari koja je dosegla do neba, i koja može privući božju osvetu. Mislim da je to vrlo fascinantno. Te ideje su se vrtile po Izraelu u to vrijeme, barem među nekim skupinama, uključujući i one koji su proizveli Svitke s Mrtvog mora. Knjige Enoha, sačuvane na etiopijskom, vjerujem, ali fragmenti su pronađeni u Svitcima s Mrtvog mora, su pravi primjer i dokaz toga. To možda nije bilo uobičajeno znanje. No, čini mi se da je se nekako sve to pomiješalo s grčko-rimskim idejama uskrsnuća/apoteoze heroja kao bogova, te da je ovo bilo nešto slično tome. Izgleda da su te ideje o krvi njihovih mučenika kao faktoru privlačenja nadolazeće osvete njihova boga – bile ono što je ova skupina revolucionara propovijedala. I svi su oni tvrdili da su vidjeli svog mrtvog vođu, koji je da tako kažemo, uskrsnuo od mrtvih, primjerice Šimun iz Pereje ili Juda Galilejac ili bilo tko drugi tko je možda bio uključen u to. To nisu bila fizička uskrsnuća, već su oni jednostavno bili vizionari. Pitanje koje imam je: jesu li oni stvarno vjerovali u to, ili su oni samo to koristili kao propagandu da bi pridobili podršku ljudi za njihov revolucionarni cilj? O: Neki su vidjeli, a onda su ostali tvrdili da su i oni također vidjeli. P: (L) U redu. Dakle, je li ovaj trenutak taj u kojem se pojavljuje ime “Isus”? Je li on bio židovski revolucionarni vođa, ili više njih koji su umrli, i jesu li ih onda nazvali Jošua – jer je Jošua bio desna ruka Mojsijeva? Je li to ideja? I tako su ga prozvali Jošua u njegovom uskrslom stanju, dok je on, dok je bio živ, možda mogao imati bilo koje ime? Simon iz Pereje, ili Juda Galilejac? O: Da. P: (L) Ok, napredujem prema nečemu. Samo morate biti strpljivi ovdje. Dakle, Pavao je imao viziju, nakon što je progonio te ljude. Je li mislio da je vidio tog židovskog tipa kojeg su ubili Rimljani? O: Ne baš. P: (L) Pa, čini se da je imao posla s njima… O: On je pogrešno protumačio, iako je to bilo samo zbog svoje okoline. Kako je Simon umro? P: (L) Vojnici su ga jurili kroz pustinju, i jedan od njih ga je udario svojim mačem i ubio ga. Mislim da su mu odrubili glavu. O: Nisu ga razapeli? P: (L) Ne, nisu ga razapeli. U redu… O: Pavao je vidio križ. P: (L) Dakle Pavao je vidio križ. O: Prikaz Cezara na spomeniku (tropheum, op. prev.). P: (L) Dakle, ono što govorite je to da je, uzbuđen od svih razgovora i stvari koje su se događale okolo i oko spasitelja i tako dalje, ne znam… ja ne mogu ni to shvatiti. Ono što sugerirate je da je Pavao imao stvarnu viziju, koju je prvi put pogrešno protumačio, ali onda je shvatio? O: Da. P: (L) I čini se da je Pavlova teologija vrlo slična stvarnostima koje ste nam vi opisali kao postojanje u 4. denzitetu, i koje je naseljeno stanovnicima 4. denziteta, i kao mjesto na koje se preselite ili na koje napredujete nakon što živite život u ovoj stvarnosti. O: Da P: (L) Čak i njegova ideja o duhovnom tijelu je slična, jer on kaže da se tijelo i krv ne mogu naslijediti u ovom kraljevstvu. I onda on kaže nešto o tijelu – da se tijelo sije kao sjeme, a zatim da raste kao duhovno tijelo. Dakle, to je gotovo kao da govori o drugoj stvarnosti u kojoj postoji varijabilnost fizikalnosti ili tako nešto. On čak tvrdi da će se oni koji su još uvijek ovdje u vrijeme promjena koje je on očekivao, promijeniti u tren oka. O: Da. P: (Perceval) Kakva je bila priroda Pavlove vizije? O: Vidio je Cezara i mislio je da je to židovski pojedinac. Međutim, on je ubrzo razvrstao stvari. Paul je očajnički pokušavao spasiti ljude i preobraziti svijet, i tako je on “postao sve – svim ljudima”, kada je to služilo cilju. Grupe u Jeruzalemu bile su toliko u njegovom vidokrugu za spasenje kao i bilo koje druge. P: (L) Dakle, ako sam dobro shvatila, vi govorite da je on možda u početku mislio da je vidio židovskog pojedinca, ali je ubrzo shvatio da to nije bio židovski pojedinac, jer on nije bio blesav. A on je znao da Šimun iz Pereje nije umro na križu, i da je to Cezar bio na spomeniku? O: Da. P: (L) Pa ipak, on je uklopio svog Cezara sa židovskim momkom za dobrobit … (Perceval) Grupe u Jerusalemu? (L) Dakle, drugim riječima, on je to napravio svjesno? O: Da. P: (Perceval) Morao je smisliti poruku za mase. (L) Dakle, kad je on to učinio, što se tiče židova, je li on dao istu poruku svima? O: Ne. P: (L) Pa, on je jasno rekao da on postaje sve svim ljudima. Kad je sa židovima, on je židov. Kad je s poganima, on je poganin. No, njegova glavna stvar, i on je to rekao: Sve što on zna je da je Krist bio razapet. I on razvija svoju teologiju, što je bila vizija svijeta 4. denziteta, i on troši gotovo NULA vremena govoreći o bilo kojem ljudskom biću ili o bilo kojoj povijesnoj osobi. Mislim da je to bilo namjerno – to da mu je fokus bio na manifestaciji 4. denziteta, i on je u potpunosti ignorirao ili namjerno nenaglašavao bilo kojeg čovjeka pojedinca? Je li to ono što je radio? O: Da. P: (L) To dovodi do velikog problema ovdje. Postojala je crkva u Rimu. To je trebala biti kršćanska crkva u Rimu prije nego što je Pavao ikad otišao u Rim. On je napisao „Poslanicu Rimljanima“ za tu crkvu. Je li to bila židovska crkva? O: Ne. P: (L) Dakle, to nije bila kršćanska crkva u smislu židovskog naroda, židovska sinagoga, koji su bili svjesni svog židovskog Mesije i obožavali svog židovskog Mesiju? O: Ne. P: (L) Je li to, u stvari bila poganska crkva koja je štovala bar nešto vezano za Cezara? O: Da. P: (L) To bi bilo biti barem dvije generacije nakon ubojstva Cezara, tako da se puno stvari moglo dogoditi u dvije generacije. O: Da. P: (L) Kad je Pavao krenuo u Rim, jer ovo je smiješna stvar… Sve izgleda kao da proizlazi iz Rima, iako Djela apostolska tvrde da je sve proizlazilo iz Jeruzalema. To je kao da… O: Kad Djela apostolska tvrde, pretpostavi da je suprotno tome. P: (L) U redu. Postoji neka vrsta kontrolirajuće stvari koja potječe iz Rima. Što se dogodilo kad je Pavao stigao u Rim? Je li on odveden u Rim kao zatvorenik iz Jeruzalema? O: On nikada treći put nije otišao u Jeruzalem. P: (L) On nikada treći put nije otišao u Jeruzalem, ali je otišao u Rim. A kad je otišao u Rim, kako je on primljen od crkve tamo? O: Srdačno. P: (L) Pa, to nema puno smisla. Čini se da je to mjesto otkuda su sva pogrešna tumačenja o obožavanju Cezara i sva pogrešna tumačenja oko židovskog Isusa potekla. O: Ne zaboravi da se sve to dogodilo nakon uništenja Jeruzalema. P: (L) Znači, mi zapravo ne znamo što se događalo. Oh, u redu. Imam teoriju da je Pavao otišao u Rim mnogo ranije nego što drugi misle. To bi imalo smisla, jer ako pravi Isus nije bio netko tko je umro u 29. ili 30., već je umjesto toga bio netko tko je umro u 4. godini pr. Kr. ili što god, onda se sve to mora vratiti. Dakle, je li Pavao otišao u Rim 48. ili 49.? O: Da. P: (L) Je li Pavao onda otišao u Španjolsku? O: Da. P: (L) Gdje je Pavao umro, u Rimu ili u Španjoklskoj? O: Španjolskoj. P: (Chu) Je li on sveti Jakov iz Compostele? O: Blizu! P: (L) Dakle, možda je Pavao pokopan u grobu svetog Jakova? O: Da. P: (Perceval) Dakle, moraš ići na hodočašće, Laura! (L) Moram ići na hodočašće! (Pierre) Hodanjem! (Perceval) Možeš to obaviti i biciklom. (L) Mogu li jahati konja? (Perceval) Možeš voziti dok god držiš svoju glavu kroz prozor. Radi se o udisanju zraka. (Chu) Tu je slaba karika, ali postoji školjka u oba slučaja. Školjka je simbol Svetog Jakova, a tu je također i školjka u slučaju Venere / Cezara. P: (L) Venera je predak julijevaca. Dakle, sve se počinje razbistravati. To je sada jako mutno. O: Imaš dovoljno na svom tanjuru! Izvrsno napreduješ! P: (L) Ali želim postaviti još jedno pitanje. [smijeh] Dopustite mi da postavim još samo jedno pitanje. (Perceval) Ako Laura ode na grob svetog Jakova znajući da je Pavao tamo pokopan, hoće li ona imati božansko otkrivenje koje će odgovoriti na sve? (PoB) Hoće li se ona tamo susresti s Putinom? O: Ne. P: (L) Jesu li Pavao i ljudi iz te crkve u Jeruzalemu zajedno došli na ideju o zamjeni obožavanja Julija Cezara figurom i likom Krista, koji je bio više ili manje univerzalan? O: Da. P: (L) Jesu li planirali da to bude židovski Isus? O: Ne, to je došlo kasnije. P: (L) Ali on ih je, u stvari, uvjerio da se trebaju preusmjeriti s Cezara na univerzalnog boga stvoritelja. Je li to to? O: Da. P: (L) Jer je to vrlo jak koncept među židovima. O: Da. P: (L) Dakle, bilo je nekih uvjeravanja koje je učinio Pavao s tom crkvom u Jeruzalemu, i oni su počeli mijenjati i izmjenjivati stvari u nekom periodu vremena. Zatim, zajedno s tim, došlo je do uništenja Jeruzalema. Nakon toga, sve je se promjenilo i preradilo iz nekog razloga. O: Politika. P: (L) Dakle, Rimska crkva je mislila da će to biti… Ne mogu to shvatiti. Previše sam umorna. O: Da. Doviđenja. KRAJ SESIJE Original sesije na engleskom možete naći ovdje. Related Articles: Posted in Kasiopejske sesije