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Session Date: February 7th 2015 Laura and Andromeda at the board Pierre, Perceval, PoB, Chu, Niall, Ark, Data, Scottie, Alana, Timótheos, Noko the Wonderdog [Note: The audio recording levels were very low - much lower than usual.] Q: (L) This is Saturday, the 7th of February, 2015. And I swear, thirty years ago, I never dreamed that I would be alive on this day. (Perceval) Why? (L) I dunno. I mean, 2012 was supposed to be the end of the world. [laughter] Everybody talked about 2012 being when everything was gonna change. (Perceval) New Age Cointelpro! (L) Yeah, and then the C's came along and said, "Nope, sorry! You gotta hang in there and do more stuff." And I just... I just wasn't sure. (Pierre) I thought it would be a shorter agony. I didn't think it would take this many years to decline. (L) Yeah, the decay and decline of everything has been... (Andromeda) Slow... (L) It's just awful. (Pierre) And what is crazy is each time, when you're thinking that we've finally reached the very bottom, and each time they find a way to make it even worse. It's freaking torture to witness that! (Andromeda) Thanks, Pierre! [laughter] (L) That gave us such a cheerful start to the evening! (Pierre) But help is on the way! (L) Yeah, right. I'm afraid to ask what help is on the way... (PoB) You ask them. We need concrete data. What do they mean by that? [laughter] (Perceval) No dice. A: Good evening people. No haste for that which comes to bring balance to your realm. Q: (L) In other words, you are saying that we should not be hasty for it? A: Yes Q: (L) Well, it seems pretty grim right now. People are either dying, or they're denying that people are dying; or they're suffering or turning their backs on other people's suffering. (Pierre) And the lies. (L) It's just... A: Natural divisions are forming in the face of turmoil. Q: (L) So, it's like you really find out what kind of persons people really are when things become so blatant that they can no longer deny it except by an extreme act of just covering their eyes and ears, and closing their mouth. A: Yes. Q: (L) Well, we're just balls of fire here tonight. A: LOL! Q: [laughter] (Perceval) They're doin' it for the lolz. (L) I didn't ask who we're talking to. Do we have a name this evening? A: Glagira of Cassiopaea. Q: (L) And the thing is, I'm not sure that anybody has any serious questions for tonight... I mean, I have my research questions, but how about anybody else? Deafening silence. Okay, anybody? I mean, we're just like sitting around waiting for the other shoe to drop. (Andromeda) I know. We know the whole world has gone completely nuts. And we're waiting for a sign to tells us if we need to do something, like move or something like that. But I can't think of anything to actually ask. (Perceval) Are we gonna have to move to Russia? [laughter] (PoB) I was going to ask should we move to Russia? A: Wait and see! [Everyone calls out the letters together] Q: [laughter] (Perceval) Did Lavrov or Putin get to read Laura's letter? A: Inquiries are in motion. Q: (Niall) They're checking us out. (Scottie) So it's a good thing we put up Russian SOTT then. (Chu) Should we close down French SOTT? A: Not yet, but be careful. [Noko speaks during answer] Q: (Perceval) Inquiries are open... Inquiries about you. (L) Oh boy... (Andromeda) Did Putin read the letter? A: Yes Q: (Pierre) Oh yeah? Wow, that's cool! That's the good news of the day. So he read it... (Ark) Maybe he was showing it to Hollande during their meeting... [laughter] (Chu) That's why it lasted five hours. [laughter] (L) They met for five hours? (Perceval) Basically, the result of it seems to be that the US is all up in arms about the fact that Germany and France are not supporting arming the Ukrainians. McCain is criticizing and saying, "They don't care about people dying and suffering in Ukraine!" Because basically, if Germany and France don't agree to the US plan to give weapons to Kiev to kill everybody in Eastern Ukraine, they can't do anything since it has to be under the auspices of NATO; NATO bases in Europe that would be used for any kind of procedure like that are in Germany, Italy, and are sanctioned by European countries. (Niall) They basically agreed to partition Ukraine. (Pierre) They asked for more autonomy for Eastern Ukraine, and a no weapon zone between the zones. (Perceval) A demilitarized zone. The Europeans talking to Putin have decided that it needs to be some kind of strong autonomous region to end the conflict, while the US is saying, "No! War! War! We hate Russia!" And Hollande and Merkel are meeting with Putin. A: Letters that Putin receives give him hope. Q: (Pierre) That's really good. (Scottie) I wrote to him about the Holocaust Memorial thing. I was super-pissed off and feeling really bad for Russia. I mean, more Russians died in World War II than any other country or group... estimates are between 21 and 27 million Russians! I wrote him a letter when he wasn't invited to the Holocaust thing in Poland. It was... heartfelt. (Perceval) We should all start writing letters of support. (Pierre) Yeah, why not! (L) Keep his spirits up. Yeah, just like we feel when we get letters... [Write to Putin: http://eng.letters.kremlin.ru/ (Pierre) Imagine this guy: there's so much pressure: political, economic, financial... He takes time to read letters! (L) And he's being defamed by the biggest, loudest propaganda artists in the whole world. We were defamed for a long time by propaganda artists, but it was very, very small scale compared to what is being done to him. Yes, it damaged us, and it hurt me personally, and it hurt all of us personally, but it was still such a small scale, that all it can do is give you a tiny bit of insight on what Putin is experiencing. He's a human being. And here, what's supposed to be, "The Greatest Nation on Earth" is calling him everything but the devil incarnate - and they've probably even called him that! (Perceval) Yeah, they call him Hitler basically. (L) Yeah, that's got to feel horrible. (Pierre) If you're not a psychopath, if you're a normal human being, sensitive and you are the brunt of all those criticisms and you see the lies... It can be very hurtful. (Alana) I was thinking about him last night, and the position he's in and the danger he's in, he's not even probably allowing himself to have close relationships because those will become his weaknesses. (Perceval) Yeah, he's aware of that. (L) I think he is completely aware of that. Putin gives me hope. (Perceval) It's a lonely life. (L) But I'm so afraid for him. (Pierre) But I'm worried about him. If he disappears, what is left? (L) It would take all the hope away. (Alana) I have a question about the Greek government, and the newly-elected leadership. It seems like what they're doing and what they stand for is giving people in Greece hope. And I want to go fully with that hope too, but I am kind of like holding myself back because I'm not sure if it's... I don’t even know how to phrase it... (Pierre) You want to know if they're good guys, or if they will succeed? (Alana) Yeah, but even if they're good guys, it's still very possible that they will not succeed in this world. It's the first leftist government ever in power in Greece, and the youngest ever. It's the first time in Greek history where the old families that were always in government aren't there any more as representatives of the Greek elite. The new government has plans. They want to... A: They will need help and they know it. It is to be hoped that youthful enthusiasm can be harnessed by patience and wisdom. Q: (Niall) They've basically laid down a challenge for all of Europe. What happens there is contingent on what happens in other European countries. They need a similar reaction all over Europe. (Pierre) Or Russian help. (Alana) And Russia already offered them help. A: Russian help will make the difference. Q: (Alana) That's what I think, too. (L) So it looks like Greece is going kaflooey. Iceland already went kaflooey. And now Germany and France seem to be sliding... (Niall) What happened in Iceland was they actually recovered. (L) No, I mean they didn't actually go along with the EU plan. That's what I'm saying. When I say, "went kaflooey", it means they didn't get with the official program. (Perceval) That's a technical term: kaflooey. (L) Yeah. So, there's obviously still a few real stupidos. (Chu) And Spain may, if this Podemos party wins... (Pierre) Italy is on the edge. (L) It looks like the US's Coalition of the Stupid is... (Perceval) Wising up! (L) And breaking up. A: Many a slip... Q: (Perceval) Many a slip betwixt cup and lip. [Proverb: Even when the outcome of an event seems certain, things can still go wrong.] (L) And I guess that goes for both sides. A: Yes Q: (L) So there's all kinds of interesting things that could be happening. A: Nothing, however, will stop the balancing. The only question is where the disasters fall and that is partly determined by the observers. Q: (Perceval) So those populations that are least perspicacious or the least accurately, objectively observing reality will be more likely to have disasters befall them? A: Orthogonal or aligned? Q: (L) So it depends on whether their observations are orthogonal or aligned with objective reality. Okay. Can I switch gears? (Pierre) Yes. (L) Okay, my, uh... A: 4 months will reveal dramatic change. Q: (Pierre) June. Dramatic change in what field? (Perceval) No dice. (Pierre) Aww... They bait us! A: All you get! Q: (Perceval) See? [laughter] That means over the next four months, or in four months? (Chu) Or after the next four months... A: No dice. Q: (L) They're not gonna tell you anything else. (Perceval) I don't need it. We'll figure it out. (Scottie) Yeah, I could have told you that some dramatic changes were coming over the next 4 months. I mean, just look at the world... (Perceval) Yeah, but you didn't! [laughter] You didn't tell me! (Chu) But four months, not three! (Scottie) Time is variable! A: We enjoy when you learn and stay attentive! Q: (L) Alright, speaking of learning. I've been really, really buried in these books. Ark can back me up here. The amount of reading I've been doing is intensive. I practically sleep while I'm reading, or read while I'm sleeping. It's no joke. I get up and I start reading an hour or two before I even show up for breakfast. Then I have my breakfast, and I go back up and I read, and I read, and I read... I read until I go to bed. And then, I take the book with me to bed and read in bed. (Perceval) So, what you're trying to say is that you've been reading a lot. (L) Yeah. (PoB) That's something new! (Pierre) So, you've been learning a lot and you deserve a few answers. (L) Yeah, that's exactly what I'm getting at. [laughter] I've been working really, really hard and I really would like to have a few little answers. Now, the first thing is that I've found that it seems to me that the Jewish Jesus was composed of literary elements of several different characters that Josephus wrote about. There was Simon of Perea, there was Judas the Galilean, and there were a couple of others though I can't remember their names. These guys were revolutionaries more than anything. But of course as we know, one man's revolutionary or terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. They were basically devoted to their religion, the Jewish faith, and they could not bear the idea that Romans were living in and ruling their Holy City, appointing their priests, and basically just telling them what to do. According to their religion and their very strong religious beliefs, the only ruler they were supposed to have was god, and god's rule was mediated by the priests. The priests were selected by the people, not by the Roman procurator. So, they were really unhappy, and you can understand that they had a serious beef. So, they were pushing a more strict form of their religion among some of these groups, and Josephus describes it as the Fourth Philosophy. They were gathering support among all the people of Judea/Israel/Palestine, whatever, for a big revolutionary push against the Romans. This is what I see as the original group that later people referred to as The Jerusalem Church. It wasn't really a Christian Church in any sense of the word. It was a group that was religious primarily, but underneath and behind the scenes, they were literally fomenting rebellion and coordinating an upcoming revolution and arming and preparing religiously and materially to rebel against Rome. Okay, is that correct so far as I have described it? A: Yes Q: (L) Alright. So the next thing is that it seems to me that Paul... First of all, he may or may not have been from Tarsus, but he was probably not a Roman citizen as Acts portrays him. That was just a literary device to get him to Rome in a particular way. He was a Hellenic Jew who lived either in Damascus or Antioch or in those areas. It seems to me that the Jews of Jerusalem who were members of this revolutionary group came to his area and were recruiting using their religion hooks. This is where he began to persecute them. He says he was a Pharisee, and they were a very very strict form of Judaism, so that would be a natural point of opposition between them. Am I correct so far about that? A: Yes Q: (L) Okay, so that was really the extent of the persecution, that he was a Pharisee, and he riled other Pharisees up against them. I'm thinking that quite possibly that the stoning of Steven never took place. Am I correct? A: Yes Q: (L) So it seems that several of the revolutionary leaders beginning with Simon of Perea and Judas and Mathias, who may or may not have been killed back at the time of Herod the Great, that there was a belief that they had been “resurrected” in a certain apocalyptic sense. There was a stone found with an inscription called the Gabriel Revelation Stone where it's believed by Israel Knohl, who wrote a book about it interpreting it, that it referred to the death of Simon of Perea. Is that in fact the case? A: Yes Q: (L) And Simon of Perea was told in this inscription that three days after his death that he would rise again. He was told to rise. It was also implied in this inscription that the blood of martyrs such as Simon and others, who may have been grossly misrepresented by Josephus, was like some sort of magnetic substance that reached up to heaven and could attract the vengeance of god. I found this to be very fascinating. These ideas were going around in Israel at that time, at least among some groups including those who produced the Dead Sea Scrolls. The books of Enoch, preserved in Ethiopic, I believe, but fragments of it were found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, are a case in point. It may not have been common knowledge. But it seems to me that somehow all of this got mixed up with Greco-Roman ideas of resurrection/apotheosis of heroes as gods, and that this was something similar to that. It looks like these ideas of the blood of their martyrs being the attractor for the coming vengeance of their god was what this group of revolutionaries was preaching. And they were all claiming that they had seen their dead leader, so to speak, risen from the dead, i.e. Simon of Peraea or Judas the Galilean or whoever else may have been involved in this. These were not physical resurrections, they were just visionary. The question I have is: Did they really believe that, or were they just using that as propaganda to work up people's support for their revolutionary cause? A: Some saw then others claimed to see also. Q: (L) Okay. So, at this point, is this where the name "Jesus" comes in here? Was this Jewish revolutionary leader, or several of them who died, were they referred to as Joshua - Joshua being the right-hand man of Moses? Is that the idea? And so they called him Joshua in his risen state, whereas while alive, he may have had any name? Simon of Perea, or Judas the Galilean? A: Yes Q: (L) Okay, I'm working my way somewhere. Ya'll just be patient here. So Paul had a vision after he'd been persecuting these people. Did he think that he saw this Jewish guy that was killed by the Romans? A: Not exactly. Q: (L) Well, it seems that he had dealings with them... A: He interpreted wrongly though that was only due to his environment. How did Simon die? Q: (L) Soldiers were chasing him through the desert, and one of them whacked him with his sword, and killed him. I think they beheaded him. A: No cross? Q: (L) No, no cross. A: Paul saw a cross. Q: (L) So Paul saw a cross. A: Caesar's image on the trophaeum. Q: (L) So, what you're saying is that, excited by all the talk and the stuff that was going on around and about messiahs and so forth, I dunno... I can't even figure that out. What you're suggesting is that Paul had a real vision which he at first mis-interpreted but then figured it out? A: Yes Q: (L) And Paul's theology seems to be very similar to the realities you've described to us as being 4th density and inhabited by 4th density denizens, and a place that you move to or graduate to after you live a life in this world or realm. A: Yes Q: (L) Even his idea of the spiritual body is similar, because he says flesh and blood cannot inherit in this kingdom. And then he says something about the body being sown as a seed, and then it grows as a spiritual body. So it's almost as if he's talking about another reality where there's variability of physicality or something. He even says that those that are still here at the time of the change that he was expecting would be changed in the twinkling of an eye. A: Yes Q: (Perceval) What was the nature of Paul's vision? A: He saw Caesar and thought it was a Jewish individual. However, he soon sorted things. Paul was desperately trying to save people and transform the world and so he "became all things to all people" when it served the aim. The group in Jerusalem were as much in his sights for salvation as anyone. Q: (L) So if I get this right, what you're saying is that he may initially have thought that he was seeing a Jewish individual, but he quickly realized that it was not a Jewish individual because he was no dummy. And he knew that Simon of Perea had not died on the cross, that it was Caesar on the Trophaeum? A: Yes Q: (L) Nevertheless, he blended his Caesar with a Jewish guy for the sake of... (Perceval) The group in Jerusalem? (L) So in other words, he did this consciously? A: Yes Q: (Perceval) He had to tailor the message to the masses. (L) So when he did this where the Jews were concerned, was he giving the same message to everybody? A: No Q: (L) Well, he clearly says that he becomes all things to all peoples. When he's with Jews, he's a Jew. When he's with Gentiles, he's a Gentile. But his main thing, and he said it: All he knows is Christ was crucified. And he develops his theology, which was a vision of a 4th density world, and he spends almost ZERO time whatsoever talking about any human being or historical person. I guess that was deliberate, that his focus was on the 4th density manifestation, and he completely ignored or de-emphasized deliberately any human individual? Is that kind of what he was doing? A: Yes Q: (L) That leads to the big problem here. There was a church in Rome. It was supposed to be a Christian church in Rome before Paul ever went to Rome. He wrote the Book of Romans to this church. Was this a Jewish church? A: No Q: (L) So this was not a Christian church in the sense of Jewish people, a Jewish synagogue, who were aware of their Jewish messiah and worshipping their Jewish messiah? A: No Q: (L) Was it, in fact, a Gentile church that was worshipping at least something along the line of Caesar? A: Yes Q: (L) This would have been at least two generations after the assassination of Caesar, so a lot of things can happen in two generations. A: Yes Q: (L) When Paul went to Rome, because this is the funny thing... Everything seems to emanate from Rome even if the Book of Acts claims that everything emanated from Jerusalem. It's almost as though... A: When "Acts" claims, assume the opposite. Q: (L) Okay. There's some kind of controlling thing emanating from Rome. What happened when Paul arrived in Rome? Was he taken to Rome as a prisoner from Jerusalem? A: He never went to Jerusalem the third time. Q: (L) He never went to Jerusalem the third time, but he went to Rome. And when he went to Rome, how was he received by the church there? A: Warmly. Q: (L) Well, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It seems to be that that's where all of the corruptions of the worship of Caesar and the corruption of the Jewish Jesus emanated from. A: Remember that all that happened after the destruction of Jerusalem. Q: (L) So, we don't really know what was going on. Oh, okay. I have a theory that Paul went to Rome much earlier than others think. That would make sense, because if the real Jesus was not somebody who died in 29 or 30, but was instead somebody who died in 4 BC or whatever, then everything has to be put back. So did Paul go to Rome in 48 or 49? A: Yes Q: (L) Did Paul then go to Spain? A: Yes Q: (L) Where did Paul die, in Rome or in Spain? A: Spain. Q: (Chu) So is he St. James de Compostela? A: Close! Q: (L) So maybe it was Paul who was buried in the Tomb of St. Jacques? A: Yes Q: (Perceval) So you have to go on a pilgrimage, Laura! (L) I've gotta go on a pilgrimage! (Pierre) Walking! (Perceval) You can do it on a bike. (L) Can I ride a horse? (Perceval) You can drive as long as your keep your head out the window. It's taking in the air. (Chu) There's a tenuous link, but there's a shell in both cases. The shell is the symbol for St. Jacques / St. James, and there's also the shell for Venus / Caesar. A: Yes!! Q: (L) Venus was the ancestry of the Julii. So, it's all beginning to clear up. It's clear as mud now. A: Enough on your plate! You are making excellent progress! Q: (L) But I want to ask another question. [laughter] Let me ask just one more question. (Perceval) If Laura goes to the tomb of St. Jacques knowing that Paul is buried there, will she have a divine revelation that will answer everything? (PoB) Is she going to meet Putin there? A: No Q: (L) Did Paul and the people in this Jerusalem church together come up with the idea of replacing the worship of Julius Caesar with this Christ figure who was universal more or less? A: Yes Q: (L) Did they plan on it being a Jewish Jesus? A: No, that came later. Q: (L) But he did, in fact, persuade them that they should refocus from Caesar to a universal creator god. Is that it? A: Yes Q: (L) Because that is the strong concept among the Jews. A: Yes Q: (L) So, there was some persuasion done by Paul with this Jerusalem church, and they started changing and shifting things for a period of time. Then, along came the destruction of Jerusalem. After that, everything got shifted around and reworked for some reason. A: Politics. Q: (L) So the Roman church thought that it would be... I can't figure it out. I'm too tired. A: Yes. Goodbye. END OF SESSION
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Laura (L) i Andromeda za pločom Prisutni: Pierre, Perceval, PoB, Chu, Niall, Ark, Data, Scottie, Alana, Timótheos, Noko Wonderdog (pas, op. prev.) [Bilješka: razina audio snimanja bila je vrlo niska, puno niža nego inače.] Pitanje (P) : (L) Subota je, 7. veljače 2015. I kunem se, prije 30 godina, nisam ni sanjala da ću biti živa na ovaj današnji dan. (Perceval) Zašto? (L) Ne znam. Mislim, 2012. je trebala biti smak svijeta. [smijeh] Svi su govorili da će se 2012. godine sve promijeniti. (Perceval) New Age CoIntelPro! (L) Da, i onda su došli Kasiopejci i rekli: “Ne, žao nam je!! Morate još ostati tamo i uraditi neke stvari.“ I ja jednostavno… Ja nisam bila sigurna. (Pierre) Ja sam mislio da će to biti kraća agonija. Nisam mislio da će potrajati toliko puno godina da sve propadne. (L) Da, propadanje i propast svega je bilo… (Andromeda) Sporo… (L) To je jednostavno grozno. (Pierre) A ono što je najluđe je to što svaki put kad smo mislili da smo napokon stigli do samog dna, oni su uvijek pronašli načine da stvari naprave još gorima. Vražje je mučenje svjedočiti tome! (Andromeda) Hvala, Pierre! [smijeh] (L) Ovo nam je dalo tako veseo početak večeri! (Pierre) Ali pomoć stiže! (L) Da, baš. Bojim se pitati kakva pomoć stiže… (PoB) Pitaj njih. Trebamo konkretne podatke. Što oni misle pod tim? [smijeh] (Perceval) Nema kockanja. Odgovor (O): Dobro veče ljudi. Nema žurbe za tim što dolazi kako bi donijelo ravnotežu vašoj realnosti. P: (L) Drugim riječima, vi tvrdite da ne bi trebali biti nestrpljivi za tim? O: Da. P: (L) Pa, to izgleda prilično turobno sada. Ljudi ili umiru, ili se poriče da ljudi umiru; ili oni pate, ili se okreću leđa od patnje drugih ljudi. (Pierre) I još sve te laži. (L) To je… O: Prirodne podjele se formiraju kad su ljudi suočeni s metežom i neredom. P: (L) Dakle, to ispada da stvarno saznaš kakve su zaista ljudi osobe – tek kad stvari postanu tako očite da ih oni više ne mogu poricati, osim ekstremnim činom pukog pokrivanja svojih očiju i ušiju, i zatvaranja usta. O: Da. P: (L) Pa, mi smo baš žestoke face ovdje večeras! O: Hahaha! P: [kroz smijeh] (Perceval) Oni to rade da se urnebesno nasmiju. (L) Nisam pitala s kim pričamo. Imamo li ime večeras? O: Glagira od Kasiopeje. P: (L) Stvar je u tome da nisam baš sigurna da li itko ima ikakva ozbiljna pitanja za večeras… Mislim, ja imam svoja istraživačka pitanja, ali ima li itko drugi ikakva pitanja? Zaglušujuća tišina. Ok, itko? Mislim, ispada da mi sad samo sjedimo i čekamo da neko nešto kaže. (Andromeda) Ja znam. Znamo da je cijeli svijet potpuno poludio. I mi čekamo neki znak da nam kaže trebamo li nešto učiniti, kao na primjer učiniti neki potez, pomaknuti se negdje, ili nešto slično tome. Ali se ne mogu sjetiti ničega da uistinu pitam. (Perceval) Hoćemo li se morati preseliti u Rusiju? [smijeh] (PoB) Ja sam htjela pitati trebamo li se preseliti u Rusiju? O: Sačekajte pa vidite! [Svi uzvikuju slova zajedno] P: [smijeh] (Perceval) Jesu li Lavrov ili Putin pročitali Laurino pismo? O: Istrage su u tijeku. P: (Niall) Oni nas provjeravaju. (Scottie) Znači dobra je stvar što smo dodali SOTT na ruskom. (Chu) Trebamo li zatvoriti francuski SOTT? O: Ne još, ali budite oprezni. [Noko priča tijekom slušanja odgovora] P: (Perceval) Istraga je otvorena… Istraga o tebi. (L) A joj… (Andromeda) Je li Putin pročitao pismo? O: Da. P: (Pierre) Da? Wow, to je super! To je dobra vijest dana. Dakle on ga je pročitao… (Ark) Možda ga je pokazao Hollandeu tijekom njihova sastanka… [smijeh] (Chu) Zato je sastanak i trajao 5 sati. [smijeh] (L) Oni su sastančili pet sati? (Perceval) U načelu, čini se da je rezultat tog sastanka u tome da je Amerika jako ljuta zbog činjenice da Njemačka i Francuska ne podupiru naoružavanje Ukrajinaca. McCain kritizira i govori: “Njima nije stalo do ljudi koji umiru i pate u Ukrajini!” Jer u osnovi, ako Njemačka i Francuska ne pristanu na američki plan za naoružavanje Kijeva kako bi se pobilo sve u Istočnoj Ukrajini, oni ne mogu ništa učiniti, jer to mora biti pod okriljem NATO-a; NATO baze u Europi koje bi se koristile za bilo koji tip takvoga postupka su u Njemačkoj, Italiji, i sankcionirane su od strane europskih zemalja. (Niall) Oni su u osnovi pristali da se Ukrajina podijeli. (Pierre) Tražili su više autonomije za Istočnu Ukrajinu, i zonu bez oružja između dviju zona. (Perceval) Demilitarizirana zona. Europljani su u razgovoru s Putinom odlučili da treba postojati neka vrsta jake autonomne regije kako bi se okončali sukobi, dok Amerika govori: “Ne! Rat! Rat! Mi mrzimo Rusiju!” I Hollande i Merkel se sastaju s Putinom. O: Pisma koja Putin prima daju mu nadu. P: (Pierre) To je stvarno dobro. (Scottie) Pisao sam mu o Spomenu na holokaust. Bio sam vrlo ljut i zaista sam se osjećao jako loše zbog Rusije. Mislim, više je Rusa umrlo u Drugom svjetskom ratu nego ljudi iz bilo koje druge zemlje ili grupe… procjene su između 21 i 27 milijuna Rusa! Napisao sam mu pismo kada on nije bio pozvan na spomen holokausta u Poljskoj. Bilo je… osjećajno i iskreno. (Perceval) Svi bi trebali početi pisati pisma potpore. (Pierre) Da, zašto da ne! (L) Dižite njegovo raspoloženje. Da, baš kao što se mi osjećamo kad dobijemo pisma… [Pišite Putinu: http://eng.letters.kremlin.ru/] (Pierre) Pa zamislite tog čovjeka: toliko je mnogo pritisaka: političkih, ekonomskih, financijskih… A on nađe vremena da čita pisma! (L) I oklevetan je od najvećih, najglasnijih majstora propagande u cijelom svijetu. Mi smo bili klevetani dugo vremena od propagandnih majstora, ali to je bilo vrlo, vrlo malih razmjera u usporedbi s ovim što se njemu radi. Da, to nas je oštetilo, i mene osobno je povrijedilo, i sve nas je to osobno povrijedilo, ali to je još uvijek bilo tako malih razmjera, tako da sve što nama to iskustvo može dati je samo jedan mali uvid u to što Putin doživljava. On je ljudsko biće. I sada, ono što bi trebala biti “Najveća nacija na Zemlji” ga naziva svakakvim nazivima, osim inkarnacijom samog đavola – ali vjerojatno su ga čak i tako nazvali! (Perceval) Da, doslovno ga zovu Hitlerom. (L) Da, to mora da je grozan osjećaj. (Pierre) Ako nisi psihopat, ako si normalno ljudsko biće, osjetljivo, i ako si pod teretom svih ovih kritika, i ako vidiš sve laži… to može biti vrlo bolno. (Alana) Razmišljala sam o njemu prošle noći, i o položaju u kojem se nalazi, i o opasnosti u kojoj je, i on vjerojatno sebi čak ne dozvoljava da ima bliske odnose, jer će oni postati njegove slabosti. (Perceval) Da, svjestan je toga. (L) Ja mislim da je on u potpunosti svjestan toga. Putin mi daje nadu. (Perceval) To je usamljenički život. (L) Ali ja sam jako uplašena za njega. (Pierre) Ali ja sam zabrinut za njega. Ako on nestane, što će ostati? (L) To bi uništilo svaku nadu. (Alana) Ja imam pitanje o grčkoj vladi i o novoizabranom vodstvu. Čini se da ono što oni rade i ono za što se zalažu – ljudima u Grčkoj daje nadu. I ja bih zaista željela u potpunosti se isto tako ponadati, ali kao da samu sebe nekako zadržavam, jer nisam baš sigurna je li to… Čak ne znam ni kako bih ovo izrazila… (Pierre) Želiš znati jesu li oni dobri dečki, ili, hoće li uspjeti? (Alana) Da, ali čak i ako oni jesu dobri dečki, još je uvijek velika vjerojatnost da neće uspjeti u ovom svijetu. To je prva ljevičarska vlada ikad na vlasti u Grčkoj, i najmlađa ikad. To je prvi put u grčkoj povijesti, da stare obitelji koje su uvijek bile na vlasti više nisu tamo kao predstavnici grčke elite. Nova vlada ima planove. Oni žele da… O: Njima će trebati pomoć i oni to znaju. Ostaje da se nadamo da mladenački entuzijazam može biti upregnut strpljenjem i mudrošću. P: (Niall) U načelu, oni su postavili izazov cijeloj Europi. Što se događa tamo ovisi o tome što se događa u drugim europskim zemljama. Oni trebaju sličnu rekaciju po cijeloj Europi. (Pierre) Ili rusku pomoć. (Alana) I Rusija im je već ponudila pomoć. O: Ruska će pomoć napraviti razliku. P: (Alana) To i ja mislim. (L) Dakle, čini se da se Grčka raspada. Island se već raspao. A sada se čini da Njemačka i Francuska klize… (Niall) Ono što se dogodilo na Islandu – je to da se on zapravo oporavio. (L) Ne, mislila sam na to da oni nisu zapravo išli usporedo s planom EU-a. To govorim. Kad kažem: ”Raspali su se” to znači da nisu išli usporedo sa službenim programom. (Perceval) To je tehnički izraz: raspad. Dakle, postoji očito još uvijek nekoliko pravih glupana. (Chu) I Španjolska može, ako ova stranka Podemos pobijedi… (Pierre) Italija je na rubu. (L) Izgleda da Američka koalicija glupana… (Perceval) Postaje svjesna! (L) I raspada se. O: Ne spremajte ražanj… P: (Perceval) Ne spremajte ražanj dok je zec još u šumi… (L) I mislim da to vrijedi za obje strane. O: Da. P: (L) Dakle, postoji mnoštvo raznih zanimljivih stvari koje bi se mogle dogoditi. O: Ipak, ništa neće zaustaviti uravnoteženje. Jedino je pitanje gdje će doći do katastrofe, a to je djelomično uvjetovano promatračima. P: (Perceval) Dakle, objektivno promatranje stvarnosti imat će veću vjerojatnost da donese katastrofe onim populacijama koje su najmanje pronicljive ili najmanje točne? O: Ortogonalni ili usklađeni? P: (L) Dakle ovisi jesu li njihova promatranja ortogonalana ili usklađena s objektivnom stvarnošću. Mogu li promijeniti temu? (Pierre) Da. (L) Dobro, moj, uh …… O: 4 mjeseca će otkriti dramatične promjene. P: (Pierre) Lipanj. Dramatične promjene u kom polju? (Perceval) Bez kockanja. (Pierre) Aww… Oni stavljaju mamac pred nas! O: To je sve što ćete dobiti! P: (Perceval) Vidiš? [smijeh] Znači li to tijekom sljedeća 4 mjeseca ili tijekom 4 mjeseca? (Chu) Ili nakon sljedeća 4 mjeseca… O: Bez kockanja. P: (L) Neće vam reći ništa više. (Perceval) Niti mi ne treba. Shvatit ćemo mi to. (Scottie) Da, mogao sam vam ja reći da neke dramatične promjene dolaze u naredna 4 mjeseca. Mislim, samo pogledajte svijet … (Perceval) Da, ali nisi! [smijeh] Nisi mi rekao! (Chu) Ali 4 mjeseca, ne 3! (Scottie) Vrijeme je varijabilno! O: Mi uživamo kad vi učite i ostajete pozorni. P: (L) Dobro, kad smo već kod učenja, zaista sam, ali zaista sam zatrpana ovim knjigama. Ark me u ovom može podržati. Količina stvari koju čitam je vrlo intenzivna. Ja doslovno spavam dok čitam, ili čitam dok spavam. Nije šala. Ustanem se i počnem čitati sat ili dva prije nego se uopće pojavim na doručku. Onda doručkujem, i vratim se i opet čitam, i čitam, i čitam… I čitam dok ne odem u krevet. I onda uzmem knjigu sa sobom u krevet, i čitam u krevetu. (Perceval) Dakle, pokušavaš reći da si jako puno čitala. (L) Aha. (PoB) To je nešto novo! (Pierre) Dakle, puno si učila i zaslužuješ nekoliko odgovora. (L) Da, upravo na to ciljam. [smijeh] Radila sam zaista, ali zaista jako puno i zaista bih voljela dobiti nekoliko malih odgovora. Dakle, prva stvar koju sam otkrila je ta da mi se čini da je židovski Isus bio sastavljen od književnih elemenata nekoliko različitih karaktera o kojima je pisao Josip. To su bili Simon iz Pereje, bio je Juda Galilejac, a bilo je i nekoliko drugih iako se ne mogu sjetiti njihovih imena. Svi ti momci bili su više revolucionari nego bilo što drugo. Ali, naravno, kao što znamo, ono što je jednom čovjeku revolucionar ili terorist, drugom je čovjeku to borac za slobodu. Oni su u osnovi bili posvećeni svojoj religiji, židovskoj vjeri, i nisu mogli podnijeti pomisao da Rimljani žive u njihovom Svetom gradu i da vladaju njihovim Svetim gradom, imenuju njihove svećenike, i u osnovi im govore što trebaju raditi. Prema njihovoj religiji i njihovim jakim religijskim uvjerenjima, jedini vladar kojeg su trebali imati je Bog, a Božju volju posredovali su svećenici. Svećenike su birali ljudi, a ne rimski prokurator. Dakle, oni su bili zaista vrlo nesretni, i možete shvatiti da su imali ozbiljan problem. Dakle, oni su gurali i proklamirali puno stroži oblik svoje religije nekim od ovih skupina, a Josip to opisuje kao Četvrtu filozofiju. Oni su prikupili potporu među svim ljudima Judeje / Izraela / Palestine, kako god ju nazivali, za veliki revolucionarni pritisak protiv Rimljana. To je ono što ja vidim kao izvornu skupinu koju su ljudi kasnije nazvali Jeruzalemskom crkvom. To zapravo i nije bila kršćanska crkva u nijednom smislu te riječi. To je bila skupina koja je prije svega bila vjerska, ali ispod i iza kulisa, oni su doslovno poticali pobunu i koordinirali nadolazeću revoluciju i naoružavali ljude, i pripremali se na vjersku i materijalnu pobunu protiv Rima. Ok, je li to točno što sam dosad opisala? O: Da. P: (L) U redu. Dakle, sljedeća stvar, čini mi se da je Pavao… Prije svega, on možda jest, a možda i nije bio iz Tarza, ali on vjerojatno nije bio rimski građanin, kako ga prikazuju Djela apostolska. To je samo bilo književno sredstvo da ga se uvede u Rim na određeni način. On je bio helenistički židov koji je živio ili u Damasku ili Antiohiji ili u tim područjima. Čini mi se da su židovi iz Jeruzalema koji su bili pripadnici te revolucionarne skupine došli na njegovo područje, i da su tamo vrbovali ljude, koristeći svoje religijske udice. Tada je on počeo da ih progoni. On kaže da je bio farizej, a oni su bili vrlo, vrlo strogi oblik judaizma, tako da je bilo prirodno da se stvori sukob između njih. Jesam li u pravu dosad o tome? O: Da. P: (L) U redu, dakle, to je zapravo bio opseg progona, to da je on bio farizej, i da je potaknuo i druge farizeje protiv njih. Mislim da je vrlo vjerojatno da se kamenovanje Stjepana nikada nije dogodio. Jesam li u pravu? O: Da. P: (L) Dakle, čini se da su neki od revolucionarnih vođa, počevši od Simona iz Pereje i Jude, i Mateja, koji možda jesu, a možda nisu bili ubijeni za vrijeme Heroda Velikog, čini se da je postojalo uvjerenje da su oni bili “uskrsnuli” u određenom apokaliptičnom smislu. Bio je pronađen kamen, s natpisom, nazvan Gabrijelov kamen otkrivenja, pri čemu Israel Knohl, koji je napisao knjigu o tome i koji to sve tumači, vjeruje da se kamen odnosi na smrt Šimuna iz Pereje. Je li to tako? O: Da. P: (L) A Šimunu iz Perea je rečeno, u tom natpisu, da će tri dana nakon svoje smrti uskrsnuti. Njemu je rečeno da uskrsne. Također je u tom natpisu implicirano da je krv mučenika, kao što su Šimun i drugi, a koje je Josip možda pogrešno prikazao, bila poput neke vrste magnetske tvari koja je dosegla do neba, i koja može privući božju osvetu. Mislim da je to vrlo fascinantno. Te ideje su se vrtile po Izraelu u to vrijeme, barem među nekim skupinama, uključujući i one koji su proizveli Svitke s Mrtvog mora. Knjige Enoha, sačuvane na etiopijskom, vjerujem, ali fragmenti su pronađeni u Svitcima s Mrtvog mora, su pravi primjer i dokaz toga. To možda nije bilo uobičajeno znanje. No, čini mi se da je se nekako sve to pomiješalo s grčko-rimskim idejama uskrsnuća/apoteoze heroja kao bogova, te da je ovo bilo nešto slično tome. Izgleda da su te ideje o krvi njihovih mučenika kao faktoru privlačenja nadolazeće osvete njihova boga – bile ono što je ova skupina revolucionara propovijedala. I svi su oni tvrdili da su vidjeli svog mrtvog vođu, koji je da tako kažemo, uskrsnuo od mrtvih, primjerice Šimun iz Pereje ili Juda Galilejac ili bilo tko drugi tko je možda bio uključen u to. To nisu bila fizička uskrsnuća, već su oni jednostavno bili vizionari. Pitanje koje imam je: jesu li oni stvarno vjerovali u to, ili su oni samo to koristili kao propagandu da bi pridobili podršku ljudi za njihov revolucionarni cilj? O: Neki su vidjeli, a onda su ostali tvrdili da su i oni također vidjeli. P: (L) U redu. Dakle, je li ovaj trenutak taj u kojem se pojavljuje ime “Isus”? Je li on bio židovski revolucionarni vođa, ili više njih koji su umrli, i jesu li ih onda nazvali Jošua – jer je Jošua bio desna ruka Mojsijeva? Je li to ideja? I tako su ga prozvali Jošua u njegovom uskrslom stanju, dok je on, dok je bio živ, možda mogao imati bilo koje ime? Simon iz Pereje, ili Juda Galilejac? O: Da. P: (L) Ok, napredujem prema nečemu. Samo morate biti strpljivi ovdje. Dakle, Pavao je imao viziju, nakon što je progonio te ljude. Je li mislio da je vidio tog židovskog tipa kojeg su ubili Rimljani? O: Ne baš. P: (L) Pa, čini se da je imao posla s njima… O: On je pogrešno protumačio, iako je to bilo samo zbog svoje okoline. Kako je Simon umro? P: (L) Vojnici su ga jurili kroz pustinju, i jedan od njih ga je udario svojim mačem i ubio ga. Mislim da su mu odrubili glavu. O: Nisu ga razapeli? P: (L) Ne, nisu ga razapeli. U redu… O: Pavao je vidio križ. P: (L) Dakle Pavao je vidio križ. O: Prikaz Cezara na spomeniku (tropheum, op. prev.). P: (L) Dakle, ono što govorite je to da je, uzbuđen od svih razgovora i stvari koje su se događale okolo i oko spasitelja i tako dalje, ne znam… ja ne mogu ni to shvatiti. Ono što sugerirate je da je Pavao imao stvarnu viziju, koju je prvi put pogrešno protumačio, ali onda je shvatio? O: Da. P: (L) I čini se da je Pavlova teologija vrlo slična stvarnostima koje ste nam vi opisali kao postojanje u 4. denzitetu, i koje je naseljeno stanovnicima 4. denziteta, i kao mjesto na koje se preselite ili na koje napredujete nakon što živite život u ovoj stvarnosti. O: Da P: (L) Čak i njegova ideja o duhovnom tijelu je slična, jer on kaže da se tijelo i krv ne mogu naslijediti u ovom kraljevstvu. I onda on kaže nešto o tijelu – da se tijelo sije kao sjeme, a zatim da raste kao duhovno tijelo. Dakle, to je gotovo kao da govori o drugoj stvarnosti u kojoj postoji varijabilnost fizikalnosti ili tako nešto. On čak tvrdi da će se oni koji su još uvijek ovdje u vrijeme promjena koje je on očekivao, promijeniti u tren oka. O: Da. P: (Perceval) Kakva je bila priroda Pavlove vizije? O: Vidio je Cezara i mislio je da je to židovski pojedinac. Međutim, on je ubrzo razvrstao stvari. Paul je očajnički pokušavao spasiti ljude i preobraziti svijet, i tako je on “postao sve – svim ljudima”, kada je to služilo cilju. Grupe u Jeruzalemu bile su toliko u njegovom vidokrugu za spasenje kao i bilo koje druge. P: (L) Dakle, ako sam dobro shvatila, vi govorite da je on možda u početku mislio da je vidio židovskog pojedinca, ali je ubrzo shvatio da to nije bio židovski pojedinac, jer on nije bio blesav. A on je znao da Šimun iz Pereje nije umro na križu, i da je to Cezar bio na spomeniku? O: Da. P: (L) Pa ipak, on je uklopio svog Cezara sa židovskim momkom za dobrobit … (Perceval) Grupe u Jerusalemu? (L) Dakle, drugim riječima, on je to napravio svjesno? O: Da. P: (Perceval) Morao je smisliti poruku za mase. (L) Dakle, kad je on to učinio, što se tiče židova, je li on dao istu poruku svima? O: Ne. P: (L) Pa, on je jasno rekao da on postaje sve svim ljudima. Kad je sa židovima, on je židov. Kad je s poganima, on je poganin. No, njegova glavna stvar, i on je to rekao: Sve što on zna je da je Krist bio razapet. I on razvija svoju teologiju, što je bila vizija svijeta 4. denziteta, i on troši gotovo NULA vremena govoreći o bilo kojem ljudskom biću ili o bilo kojoj povijesnoj osobi. Mislim da je to bilo namjerno – to da mu je fokus bio na manifestaciji 4. denziteta, i on je u potpunosti ignorirao ili namjerno nenaglašavao bilo kojeg čovjeka pojedinca? Je li to ono što je radio? O: Da. P: (L) To dovodi do velikog problema ovdje. Postojala je crkva u Rimu. To je trebala biti kršćanska crkva u Rimu prije nego što je Pavao ikad otišao u Rim. On je napisao „Poslanicu Rimljanima“ za tu crkvu. Je li to bila židovska crkva? O: Ne. P: (L) Dakle, to nije bila kršćanska crkva u smislu židovskog naroda, židovska sinagoga, koji su bili svjesni svog židovskog Mesije i obožavali svog židovskog Mesiju? O: Ne. P: (L) Je li to, u stvari bila poganska crkva koja je štovala bar nešto vezano za Cezara? O: Da. P: (L) To bi bilo biti barem dvije generacije nakon ubojstva Cezara, tako da se puno stvari moglo dogoditi u dvije generacije. O: Da. P: (L) Kad je Pavao krenuo u Rim, jer ovo je smiješna stvar… Sve izgleda kao da proizlazi iz Rima, iako Djela apostolska tvrde da je sve proizlazilo iz Jeruzalema. To je kao da… O: Kad Djela apostolska tvrde, pretpostavi da je suprotno tome. P: (L) U redu. Postoji neka vrsta kontrolirajuće stvari koja potječe iz Rima. Što se dogodilo kad je Pavao stigao u Rim? Je li on odveden u Rim kao zatvorenik iz Jeruzalema? O: On nikada treći put nije otišao u Jeruzalem. P: (L) On nikada treći put nije otišao u Jeruzalem, ali je otišao u Rim. A kad je otišao u Rim, kako je on primljen od crkve tamo? O: Srdačno. P: (L) Pa, to nema puno smisla. Čini se da je to mjesto otkuda su sva pogrešna tumačenja o obožavanju Cezara i sva pogrešna tumačenja oko židovskog Isusa potekla. O: Ne zaboravi da se sve to dogodilo nakon uništenja Jeruzalema. P: (L) Znači, mi zapravo ne znamo što se događalo. Oh, u redu. Imam teoriju da je Pavao otišao u Rim mnogo ranije nego što drugi misle. To bi imalo smisla, jer ako pravi Isus nije bio netko tko je umro u 29. ili 30., već je umjesto toga bio netko tko je umro u 4. godini pr. Kr. ili što god, onda se sve to mora vratiti. Dakle, je li Pavao otišao u Rim 48. ili 49.? O: Da. P: (L) Je li Pavao onda otišao u Španjolsku? O: Da. P: (L) Gdje je Pavao umro, u Rimu ili u Španjoklskoj? O: Španjolskoj. P: (Chu) Je li on sveti Jakov iz Compostele? O: Blizu! P: (L) Dakle, možda je Pavao pokopan u grobu svetog Jakova? O: Da. P: (Perceval) Dakle, moraš ići na hodočašće, Laura! (L) Moram ići na hodočašće! (Pierre) Hodanjem! (Perceval) Možeš to obaviti i biciklom. (L) Mogu li jahati konja? (Perceval) Možeš voziti dok god držiš svoju glavu kroz prozor. Radi se o udisanju zraka. (Chu) Tu je slaba karika, ali postoji školjka u oba slučaja. Školjka je simbol Svetog Jakova, a tu je također i školjka u slučaju Venere / Cezara. P: (L) Venera je predak julijevaca. Dakle, sve se počinje razbistravati. To je sada jako mutno. O: Imaš dovoljno na svom tanjuru! Izvrsno napreduješ! P: (L) Ali želim postaviti još jedno pitanje. [smijeh] Dopustite mi da postavim još samo jedno pitanje. (Perceval) Ako Laura ode na grob svetog Jakova znajući da je Pavao tamo pokopan, hoće li ona imati božansko otkrivenje koje će odgovoriti na sve? (PoB) Hoće li se ona tamo susresti s Putinom? O: Ne. P: (L) Jesu li Pavao i ljudi iz te crkve u Jeruzalemu zajedno došli na ideju o zamjeni obožavanja Julija Cezara figurom i likom Krista, koji je bio više ili manje univerzalan? O: Da. P: (L) Jesu li planirali da to bude židovski Isus? O: Ne, to je došlo kasnije. P: (L) Ali on ih je, u stvari, uvjerio da se trebaju preusmjeriti s Cezara na univerzalnog boga stvoritelja. Je li to to? O: Da. P: (L) Jer je to vrlo jak koncept među židovima. O: Da. P: (L) Dakle, bilo je nekih uvjeravanja koje je učinio Pavao s tom crkvom u Jeruzalemu, i oni su počeli mijenjati i izmjenjivati stvari u nekom periodu vremena. Zatim, zajedno s tim, došlo je do uništenja Jeruzalema. Nakon toga, sve je se promjenilo i preradilo iz nekog razloga. O: Politika. P: (L) Dakle, Rimska crkva je mislila da će to biti… Ne mogu to shvatiti. Previše sam umorna. O: Da. Doviđenja. KRAJ SESIJE Original sesije na engleskom možete naći ovdje. Related Articles: Posted in Kasiopejske sesije