<p>Orochimaru helped Madara get that face as well as develop the Rinnegan. This is partially why Madara activated the Rinnegan so late in his life; Orochimaru was the brain in the operation. As you can see, Orochimaru knew a lot of secrets, including Danzou's condition and Tobi's true identity.  </p>

<p>There are small hints as the manga progresses all leading up to this point. Madara doesn't explicitly state it (in the below picture), but we know it is Orochimaru based on his research, Kishimoto's hints throughout the manga, and the fact Madara never met Kabuto before this war.</p>

<p>The underling is Obito and the acquaintance is Orochimaru (Ch. 657).
<img src="https://i.sstatic.net/S6xyz.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></p>

<p>UPDATE: Here is the proof that Madara didn't know Kabuto. In the last 2 panels of the above pic, it is pretty much implied that Madara met a person (while he was alive) that showed him how to use his current technique. That person can only be Orochimaru.</p>

<p><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Kw3h3qH3iMg/TqlOW7PBdKI/AAAAAAAAGQM/jfPgdY5Do1w/008.jpg?imgmax=2000" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Kw3h3qH3iMg/TqlOW7PBdKI/AAAAAAAAGQM/jfPgdY5Do1w/008.jpg?imgmax=2000</a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-12-19T03:19:46.173Z
Once again, Kishi lays golden eggs in Naruto. The very specific facts that are revealed about Orochimaru seem negligible at first, but then becomes important later on.
krikara
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T10:21:33.290Z
Take a bow! You beat everyone there ..
Rookie Programmer Aravind
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T10:22:51.840Z
although it does not prove 100%. Atleast 80% points at Orochi
Rookie Programmer Aravind
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T11:09:40.057Z
@InfantPro'Aravind' I'd say it is close to 99%. Madara specifically stated "an aquaintance of an underling of mine". The only acquantaince here should be Tobi (Obito). And the only underling should be Orochimaru. I didn't post the picture here, but Madara never met Kabuto and stated that explicitly when Kabuto gave him full control over edo tensei. The only 2 possible people able to fuse Senju and Uchiha DNA should be Kabuto and Orochimaru. That 1% exists where some other mysterious person exists. People like Danzou didn't even know Madara was alive around the time of Obito's supposed death.
krikara
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T12:30:45.757Z
Agreed except that your statement is little shuffled. Underling is Tobi and Acquaintance is Orochi :)
Rookie Programmer Aravind
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T12:35:27.943Z
On the other hand there are some arguments that it could be Kabuto. Kabuto could be an acquaintance too.. http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=460919
Rookie Programmer Aravind
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T12:39:55.857Z
Madara first met Kabuto after the edo tensei. I'll get the reference later.
krikara
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T12:58:12.490Z
I know that, Kabuto introduced himself via Muu. But the argument is, Kabuto was the one who resurrected Madara, he could have managed to fuse and modify Madara's body as per his will and wish (just a theory) And Madara didn't die having Hashirama's face on his chest that means this power was gained only after he was revived.
Rookie Programmer Aravind
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T12:58:54.917Z
I've thrown some valid points. I'm gonna add this as an answer. :)
Rookie Programmer Aravind
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T13:25:31.813Z
Well, we can't say that Madara only got Hashirama face after he died. If you re-read the last 2 panels, Hashirama was talking about after Madara left the village, and Madara responds indicating that he did the bodily experiments while he was still alive. When Madara referred to others sharing the same idea, Orochimaru is really the only person given credit for this stuff since he was crazy about it from the beginning and his experiments with Danzou. Lastly, if Kabuto had really developed the technique with the face, it would make more sense if it would work in Edo Tensei form.
krikara
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T17:55:42.100Z
@krikara lemme put this question to you....... let us beleive for a while that Orochimaru was the person who is referred here...... but then why would Oruchimaru be so obsessed with Sasuke's eyes........ why couldn't he go behind Madara's eyes directly.......i am not trying to contradict with your statement but I do feel that rather than wasting his time to retrieve Sasuke's eyes,he could have straight away gone for Madara's eyes..... he could have atlease tried searching him....and even if he knew the secret of rinnegan,he won't be lying silent....as we all know Oruchimaru always seeked power
Jiraiya
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T18:01:28.087Z
I think rather focussing on orochimaru,it can even be Nidaime who is being referred here.......it's just my speculation though
Jiraiya
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-19T01:22:52.553Z
It can't be Nidaime because Nidaime hated Madara with the utmost passion. That one is certainly out of the question. The reason why Orochimaru couldn't steal Madara's eyes is because Madara was simply too strong (with Obito and Zetsu). Then Madara gave his eyes to Pain, the leader of Akatsuki. Now who would Orochimaru want to get the eyes from? Madara's group, Akatsuki, or Sasuke? The choice is an easy one to make.
krikara
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-12-19T03:16:24.633Z
2014-02-18T14:07:20.987Z
2014-02-18T14:07:20.987Z
krikara
<p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/S6xyz.jpg" alt="enter image description here"></p>

<p>Here he meant,</p>

<ol>
<li><p>An acquaintance of an underling of mine</p>

<ul>
<li>Kabuto (acquaintance of underling, Tobi)</li>
</ul></li>
<li><p>Others who mulled over similar idea </p>

<ul>
<li>Orochimaru (experimented over Danzou)</li>
</ul></li>
</ol>

<p>Kabuto was the one who resurrected Madara. He could have managed to fuse and modify Madara's body as per his will and wish (just a theory). And Madara didn't die having Hashirama's face on his chest, which means this power was gained only after he was revived.</p>

<p>Kabuto while fighting with Itachi and Sasuke did indeed show his skills of fusing different persons' cells in himself. That makes us believe that he might have played around with Madara's corpse before he summoned him.</p>

<p>But the phrase <code>I learnt</code> said by Madara makes us think that, may be the Kabuto's craft work was imperfect and something that Madara composed later during the battle.</p>

<p>But all the above statements are just theories and vaguely supported by evidence. Kishi is one tricky guy :)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-02-18T13:50:30.627Z
2016-12-06T13:35:21.103Z
2016-12-06T13:35:21.103Z
Rookie Programmer Aravind
<p>I would assume it could be Orochimaru, because these experiments were definitely done while Madara was still alive. Madara was kept alive up til old age because the Gedo Mazou was supporting him, and at that time his Rinnegan was already implanted in Nagato, so that must mean he had the Senju cells before his death in order to get those eyes. Orochimaru is alive at the time that Obito was saved by Madara, and this was around the time he began to conduct his expirements. I wouldn't say he saved Madara during his fight with Hashirama but he definitely fits the part where Madara said he was taught that by an acquaintance of an underling; Orochimaru was a part of Akatsuki and obviously acquainted with Obito, and I'm pretty sure Orochimaru would keep all his intel on the low from everyone, being alive before Madaras death I bet he wouldn't tell obito that much of his past expirements </p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-02T08:02:54.720Z
could you please provide snapshots from the manga and/or the anime. That would make your answer stronger.
debal
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-03T04:48:38.823Z
question asked by madara and answered by hashirama :P
Shouldn't it be reverse? :P
votelessbubble
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-02T05:55:31.140Z
2014-04-02T05:55:31.140Z
Hashirama
<p>The underling is Obito and the acquaintance is kabuto, the two were working together during the fourth shinobi war, when Kabuto ressurected madara he told him that he had brought him back better than his glory days, in other words, during his fight with hashirama in which he took hashirama's flesh and implanted it into himself, but he didn't obtain the power until he was at a very old age, what Kabuto did was take the power the madara got from hashirama's cells in his old age and implant them into a younger version of madara, making Kabuto the one responsible for the current madara having hashirama's power</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-10-03T01:12:35.903Z
2014-10-03T01:12:35.903Z
Jordan Clarke
<p>We already know that Madara had fought Hashirama at the Valley of the End, and got some of his power.</p>

<p>How did we get from that to the fact that he has his face on his shoulder? Is this Orochimaru/Kabuto's doing? Or is that a natural thing that somehow occurred? </p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-12-19T01:09:32.617Z
You must be knowing the answer,you are madara :P
votelessbubble
<naruto>
How exactly did Madara get Hashirama's power?
# How exactly did Madara get Hashirama's power?
Posted by: username_0 on 2013-12-18
We already know that Madara had fought Hashirama at the Valley of the End, and got some of his power.

How did we get from that to the fact that he has his face on his shoulder? Is this Orochimaru/Kabuto's doing? Or is that a natural thing that somehow occurred?
**Tags:** naruto
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: You must be knowing the answer,you are madara :P  
---
## 4 answers
### Answer by username_2 on 2013-12-19. Score: 3
Orochimaru helped Madara get that face as well as develop the Rinnegan. This is partially why Madara activated the Rinnegan so late in his life; Orochimaru was the brain in the operation. As you can see, Orochimaru knew a lot of secrets, including Danzou's condition and Tobi's true identity.

There are small hints as the manga progresses all leading up to this point. Madara doesn't explicitly state it (in the below picture), but we know it is Orochimaru based on his research, Kishimoto's hints throughout the manga, and the fact Madara never met Kabuto before this war.

The underling is Obito and the acquaintance is Orochimaru (Ch. 657).
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/S6xyz.jpg)

UPDATE: Here is the proof that Madara didn't know Kabuto. In the last 2 panels of the above pic, it is pretty much implied that Madara met a person (while he was alive) that showed him how to use his current technique. That person can only be Orochimaru.

<http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Kw3h3qH3iMg/TqlOW7PBdKI/AAAAAAAAGQM/jfPgdY5Do1w/008.jpg?imgmax=2000>
> **Comments:**
> **username_2** (2013-12-19): Once again, Kishi lays golden eggs in Naruto. The very specific facts that are revealed about Orochimaru seem negligible at first, but then becomes important later on.  
> **username_3** (2014-02-18): Take a bow! You beat everyone there ..  
> **username_3** (2014-02-18): although it does not prove 100%. Atleast 80% points at Orochi  
> **username_2** (2014-02-18): @InfantPro'Aravind' I'd say it is close to 99%. Madara specifically stated "an aquaintance of an underling of mine". The only acquantaince here should be Tobi (Obito). And the only underling should be Orochimaru. I didn't post the picture here, but Madara never met Kabuto and stated that explicitly when Kabuto gave him full control over edo tensei. The only 2 possible people able to fuse Senju and Uchiha DNA should be Kabuto and Orochimaru. That 1% exists where some other mysterious person exists. People like Danzou didn't even know Madara was alive around the time of Obito's supposed death.  
> **username_3** (2014-02-18): Agreed except that your statement is little shuffled. Underling is Tobi and Acquaintance is Orochi :)  
> **username_3** (2014-02-18): On the other hand there are some arguments that it could be Kabuto. Kabuto could be an acquaintance too.. http://narutobase.net/forums/showthread.php?t=460919  
> **username_2** (2014-02-18): Madara first met Kabuto after the edo tensei. I'll get the reference later.  
> **username_3** (2014-02-18): I know that, Kabuto introduced himself via Muu. But the argument is, Kabuto was the one who resurrected Madara, he could have managed to fuse and modify Madara's body as per his will and wish (just a theory) And Madara didn't die having Hashirama's face on his chest that means this power was gained only after he was revived.  
> **username_3** (2014-02-18): I've thrown some valid points. I'm gonna add this as an answer. :)  
> **username_2** (2014-02-18): Well, we can't say that Madara only got Hashirama face after he died. If you re-read the last 2 panels, Hashirama was talking about after Madara left the village, and Madara responds indicating that he did the bodily experiments while he was still alive. When Madara referred to others sharing the same idea, Orochimaru is really the only person given credit for this stuff since he was crazy about it from the beginning and his experiments with Danzou. Lastly, if Kabuto had really developed the technique with the face, it would make more sense if it would work in Edo Tensei form.  
> **username_4** (2014-02-18): @krikara lemme put this question to you....... let us beleive for a while that Orochimaru was the person who is referred here...... but then why would Oruchimaru be so obsessed with Sasuke's eyes........ why couldn't he go behind Madara's eyes directly.......i am not trying to contradict with your statement but I do feel that rather than wasting his time to retrieve Sasuke's eyes,he could have straight away gone for Madara's eyes..... he could have atlease tried searching him....and even if he knew the secret of rinnegan,he won't be lying silent....as we all know Oruchimaru always seeked power  
> **username_4** (2014-02-18): I think rather focussing on orochimaru,it can even be Nidaime who is being referred here.......it's just my speculation though  
> **username_2** (2014-02-19): It can't be Nidaime because Nidaime hated Madara with the utmost passion. That one is certainly out of the question. The reason why Orochimaru couldn't steal Madara's eyes is because Madara was simply too strong (with Obito and Zetsu). Then Madara gave his eyes to Pain, the leader of Akatsuki. Now who would Orochimaru want to get the eyes from? Madara's group, Akatsuki, or Sasuke? The choice is an easy one to make.  
---
### Answer by username_3 on 2014-02-18. Score: 2
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/S6xyz.jpg)

Here he meant,

1. An acquaintance of an underling of mine

   * Kabuto (acquaintance of underling, Tobi)
2. Others who mulled over similar idea

   * Orochimaru (experimented over Danzou)

Kabuto was the one who resurrected Madara. He could have managed to fuse and modify Madara's body as per his will and wish (just a theory). And Madara didn't die having Hashirama's face on his chest, which means this power was gained only after he was revived.

Kabuto while fighting with Itachi and Sasuke did indeed show his skills of fusing different persons' cells in himself. That makes us believe that he might have played around with Madara's corpse before he summoned him.

But the phrase `I learnt` said by Madara makes us think that, may be the Kabuto's craft work was imperfect and something that Madara composed later during the battle.

But all the above statements are just theories and vaguely supported by evidence. Kishi is one tricky guy :)
---
### Answer by username_5 on 2014-04-02. Score: 0
I would assume it could be Orochimaru, because these experiments were definitely done while Madara was still alive. Madara was kept alive up til old age because the Gedo Mazou was supporting him, and at that time his Rinnegan was already implanted in Nagato, so that must mean he had the Senju cells before his death in order to get those eyes. Orochimaru is alive at the time that Obito was saved by Madara, and this was around the time he began to conduct his expirements. I wouldn't say he saved Madara during his fight with Hashirama but he definitely fits the part where Madara said he was taught that by an acquaintance of an underling; Orochimaru was a part of Akatsuki and obviously acquainted with Obito, and I'm pretty sure Orochimaru would keep all his intel on the low from everyone, being alive before Madaras death I bet he wouldn't tell obito that much of his past expirements
> **Comments:**
> **username_6** (2014-04-02): could you please provide snapshots from the manga and/or the anime. That would make your answer stronger.  
> **username_1** (2014-04-03): question asked by madara and answered by hashirama :P
Shouldn't it be reverse? :P  
---
### Answer by username_7 on 2014-10-03. Score: 0
The underling is Obito and the acquaintance is kabuto, the two were working together during the fourth shinobi war, when Kabuto ressurected madara he told him that he had brought him back better than his glory days, in other words, during his fight with hashirama in which he took hashirama's flesh and implanted it into himself, but he didn't obtain the power until he was at a very old age, what Kabuto did was take the power the madara got from hashirama's cells in his old age and implant them into a younger version of madara, making Kabuto the one responsible for the current madara having hashirama's power
---
