<p>I don't disagree with the crux of <a href="https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/68270/19307">SPArcheon's answer</a>, but there are two specific points made that I think need correcting.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Also, it is not clear how far Caesar powers could reach.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Staying out of Caesar's reach while fighting was the crux of Luffy's strategy in his second fight, so I think it's likely we could estimate Caesar's range were we inclined to do so.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>You imagine Caesar dousing Ace's fire, but we can't exclude something like &quot;Caesar explodes as soon as he tries to turn to gas because gas+fire=boom&quot;.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Usopp shot a fire attack at Caesar with exactly this mentality, and it was proven wrong. Caesar's control is over gas, not exclusively poison gas or explosive gas. The whole point of this exchange is to show us that the viewers' understanding of &quot;gas plus fire equals explosion&quot; is comically incorrect, and to remind us that oxygen is a gas.</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/Ft2Pu.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/Ft2Pu.png" alt="usopp reaping consequences of his ignorance of chemistry" /></a></p>
<p>Ace would most likely struggle against Caesar for the same reasons he ultimately lost to Teech. Mainly, the negation of his fire powers. Considering that Caesar's ability to manipulate oxygen would be devastating whether Ace was fire or human, Ace would most likely lose if he got within range of Caesar. Oxygen deprivation was enough to take down Luffy, after all, so superhuman strength really doesn't factor in here.</p>
<p>It would ultimately depend on Oda's perspective, as said in the other answer. Yet, he has shown to think these match-ups through though, as with Luffy being impervious to lightning (though it is technically not actually scientifically accurate that rubber would be okay being hit by lightning according to answers <a href="https://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/22763/is-it-logical-that-enels-power-is-ineffective-against-luffy/61369#61369">here</a>), and with Ace and Smoker's fight being an a futile effort. Crocodile being weak against water also makes sense, since sand sticks together when it gets wet. The whole thing of lava being hotter than fire was a bit odd (my initial gut reaction was that it made sense, but I guess that hardly matters, and I think it's fair to criticize it), but it does still show that Oda is using logic and reasoning for these match-ups. Just note that logically consistent does not necessarily equal scientifically accurate.</p>
<p>Since Oda has already explicitly written about the relationship between oxygen and fire in the battle between Usopp and Caesar, I think we can conclude that he definitely would've taken it into account in a fight between Ace and Caesar. But there are still unknown factors that Oda would have to decide on, so any answer to the question of this match-up is going to be mostly speculation. That could change if for some reason we see Marco or Sabo fight Caesar.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-22T19:20:12.213Z
2023-08-23T01:17:10.833Z
2023-08-23T01:17:10.833Z
Shaymin Gratitude
<p>If you are thinking of a mere rock-paper-scissor, it would indeed look like Caesar fruit has an advantage, similar to how Luffy &quot;Gum&quot; fruit had an advantage against Eneru &quot;Lighting&quot; or how Akainu claimed that his &quot;Magma&quot; power was stronger than Ace &quot;Fire&quot;.<br />
On the other hand it is not like a &quot;weaker&quot; fruit hasn't beat a &quot;stronger&quot; one before, even with some elemental advantage involved. Also, it is not clear how far Caesar powers could reach. He doesn't seem the type to have trained that much and instead seems to rely on the base advantage of a Logia. I also doubt he has any decent level of Haki, while technically Ace was shown at least once to use the Conqueror variant (that said, it appears only in the flashback and never again).</p>
<p>But let's keep it simple - <strong>can Caesar douse Ace flames?</strong></p>
<p>The real issue is that we are talking about speculations.
It has never been specified <strong>how</strong> Logia fruits create things out of nowhere. Do they consume stamina/willpower/ki/mana? How can someone conjure a giant fist made of magma up in the sky? Where did that molten rock come from?</p>
<p>It is a common misconception that fire requires oxygen.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The two main components of fire are fuel and an oxidizing agent or oxidizer. Fuel is a substance that loses electrons or accepts oxygen atoms, whereas an oxidizer is a material that provides those oxygen atoms or accepts the electrons. This process of transferring electrons from the oxidizing agent to the fuel is known as oxidation, which basically constitutes combustion<br />
Source: <a href="https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/can-fire-occur-non-oxygenated-reaction.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/can-fire-occur-non-oxygenated-reaction.html</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p>This brings quite a bit of questions...</p>
<ul>
<li>do Ace flames require any combustion in the first place? You seem quite sure they need oxygen as the oxidizing agent, but then please tell me also what is the fuel that gets combusted.</li>
<li>if they require combustion, do they use oxygen? If the Logia can create the &quot;fuel&quot; then it should be able to create the oxidizing agent too?</li>
<li>if Ace powers are a form of combustion that can use any oxidizing agent, can Caesar remove oxygen at atomic level too so that there are no oxygen atoms left? Just to point out the absurdity, this means that Caesar should be able to turn water into hydrogen?<br />
etc etc etc.</li>
</ul>
<p>Seems we won't get anywhere this way, so let's try to compare Ace with someone similar instead.</p>
<p>The Human Torch maybe?
This scene from a comic is quite  similar to what you seem to expect: a foe removes oxygen from the area and the Human Torch flames are affected.</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/cLmD4.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/cLmD4.jpg" alt="The Human Torch claims that his flames will die out without oxygen after a foe used that trick against him" /></a></p>
<p>But in another panel form a different comic he can fly thru space despite the lack of air...</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/3JoX9.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/3JoX9.png" alt="Human Torch in space without oxygen" /></a></p>
<p>... or at least he can until he can not in yet another issue.</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/oUujr.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/oUujr.png" alt="but he then remembers there is no oxygen there" /></a></p>
<p>... and don't get me even started on &quot;Power Cosmic&quot; Human Torch.</p>
<p>Let's look elsewhere.
In Fire Force the (basic) Infernals  seems to be subject to dousing like any flame would - Akitaru Ōbi even uses dousing grenades.  At the same time there are scenes where the acutal Adolla flame is shown to be demonic in the real meaning of the term and it does not seem to douse in any way.<br />
In Ben10 Heatblast can't breath in space and is weak to water, oxygen deprivation and anything you would expect to douse a flame.<br />
Then you have Jaganshi Hiei from YuYu Hakusho dark flame, which isn't conventional by any mean and is probably more of a demonic flame too.</p>
<p>and so on, I think you get the point: every show has its set of rules, even when we are talking of the same base trope...</p>
<p>At the end of the day only Oda could decide how the fight would go. You imagine Caesar dousing Ace fire, but Oda could as well decide to go for a not-even-worth-my-time scenario with &quot;Caesar explodes as soon as he tries to turn to gas because gas+fire=boom&quot;. Considering that the Ace is dead and many expect Sabo to face Akainu for revenge at some point, I would not be surprised by a &quot;I'll mop the floor with you&quot; battle with the Flame Flame fruit revealed to be not physical fire but the very idea of burning and awake to spontaneous combustion of anything near, including Akainu's magma. After all, it is not like other fruits weren't presented for what they actually were in the first place... so maybe suddenly the Mera Mera will actually be Hito Hito No Mi, Model: Kitsune.</p>
<p>That said, again, this is just speculation and unless Caesar does try this against Sabo now we will probably never know if that would have worked unless someone asks Oda directly in the SBS corner.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-25T13:44:06.677Z
U say Caesar would blast as soon as he touches fire, as he is composed of gas. Thus he must be composed of inflammable gases to be capable of blasting. But that would mean that he is composed of other gases as well. Like Arsine, Diborane or Phosphine which burn spontaneously on contact with air, depending on temperature and humidity. So he must be literally BLASTING ALL THE TIME. But he isn't, which would mean that he is able to control his gas composition.Also, if he removes oxygen from air, fire i.e. Ace can't just burn. Ace must then be helpless because without oxygen fire can't burn.
Ayan Dutta
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-25T17:28:17.630Z
@AyanDutta No, I said that since the author never wrote out that battle, anything is just speculation. The few info we have about the Flame fruit is that Akainu considered his magma as "superior". But that could be very well a red herring since Ace simply HAD to be very weak after all the time spent in prison, and I wouldn't put it past Oda to have planted that line so that a future Sabo VS Akainu battle will be a crush-stomp in Sabo favor.
SPArcheon - on strike
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-22T11:12:44.337Z
2023-08-28T07:44:47.080Z
2023-08-28T07:44:47.080Z
SPArcheon - on strike
<p>Caesar ate the Gas-Gas Fruit which allows him to control gas. He can also remove oxygen gas in a certain area. And Ace ate the Flare-Flare Fruit which allows him to control fire. Since Fire requires oxygen to burn, then Caesar's removal of oxygen from the air could have defeated Ace's fire power.</p>
<p>So we conclude that Caesar could have easily defeated Ace?</p>

<one-piece>
Could Caesar Clown defeat Ace?
# Could Caesar Clown defeat Ace?
Posted by: username_0 on 2023-08-21
Caesar ate the Gas-Gas Fruit which allows him to control gas. He can also remove oxygen gas in a certain area. And Ace ate the Flare-Flare Fruit which allows him to control fire. Since Fire requires oxygen to burn, then Caesar's removal of oxygen from the air could have defeated Ace's fire power.

So we conclude that Caesar could have easily defeated Ace?
**Tags:** one-piece
---
## 2 answers
### Answer by username_1 on 2023-08-22. Score: 1
I don't disagree with the crux of [SPArcheon's answer](https://anime.stackexchange.com/a/68270/19307), but there are two specific points made that I think need correcting.

> Also, it is not clear how far Caesar powers could reach.

Staying out of Caesar's reach while fighting was the crux of Luffy's strategy in his second fight, so I think it's likely we could estimate Caesar's range were we inclined to do so.

> You imagine Caesar dousing Ace's fire, but we can't exclude something like "Caesar explodes as soon as he tries to turn to gas because gas+fire=boom".

Usopp shot a fire attack at Caesar with exactly this mentality, and it was proven wrong. Caesar's control is over gas, not exclusively poison gas or explosive gas. The whole point of this exchange is to show us that the viewers' understanding of "gas plus fire equals explosion" is comically incorrect, and to remind us that oxygen is a gas.

[![usopp reaping consequences of his ignorance of chemistry](https://i.sstatic.net/Ft2Pu.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/Ft2Pu.png)

Ace would most likely struggle against Caesar for the same reasons he ultimately lost to Teech. Mainly, the negation of his fire powers. Considering that Caesar's ability to manipulate oxygen would be devastating whether Ace was fire or human, Ace would most likely lose if he got within range of Caesar. Oxygen deprivation was enough to take down Luffy, after all, so superhuman strength really doesn't factor in here.

It would ultimately depend on Oda's perspective, as said in the other answer. Yet, he has shown to think these match-ups through though, as with Luffy being impervious to lightning (though it is technically not actually scientifically accurate that rubber would be okay being hit by lightning according to answers [here](https://anime.stackexchange.com/questions/22763/is-it-logical-that-enels-power-is-ineffective-against-luffy/61369#61369)), and with Ace and Smoker's fight being an a futile effort. Crocodile being weak against water also makes sense, since sand sticks together when it gets wet. The whole thing of lava being hotter than fire was a bit odd (my initial gut reaction was that it made sense, but I guess that hardly matters, and I think it's fair to criticize it), but it does still show that Oda is using logic and reasoning for these match-ups. Just note that logically consistent does not necessarily equal scientifically accurate.

Since Oda has already explicitly written about the relationship between oxygen and fire in the battle between Usopp and Caesar, I think we can conclude that he definitely would've taken it into account in a fight between Ace and Caesar. But there are still unknown factors that Oda would have to decide on, so any answer to the question of this match-up is going to be mostly speculation. That could change if for some reason we see Marco or Sabo fight Caesar.
---
### Answer by username_2 on 2023-08-22. Score: 1
If you are thinking of a mere rock-paper-scissor, it would indeed look like Caesar fruit has an advantage, similar to how Luffy "Gum" fruit had an advantage against Eneru "Lighting" or how Akainu claimed that his "Magma" power was stronger than Ace "Fire".  
On the other hand it is not like a "weaker" fruit hasn't beat a "stronger" one before, even with some elemental advantage involved. Also, it is not clear how far Caesar powers could reach. He doesn't seem the type to have trained that much and instead seems to rely on the base advantage of a Logia. I also doubt he has any decent level of Haki, while technically Ace was shown at least once to use the Conqueror variant (that said, it appears only in the flashback and never again).

But let's keep it simple - **can Caesar douse Ace flames?**

The real issue is that we are talking about speculations.
It has never been specified **how** Logia fruits create things out of nowhere. Do they consume stamina/willpower/ki/mana? How can someone conjure a giant fist made of magma up in the sky? Where did that molten rock come from?

It is a common misconception that fire requires oxygen.

> The two main components of fire are fuel and an oxidizing agent or oxidizer. Fuel is a substance that loses electrons or accepts oxygen atoms, whereas an oxidizer is a material that provides those oxygen atoms or accepts the electrons. This process of transferring electrons from the oxidizing agent to the fuel is known as oxidation, which basically constitutes combustion  
> Source: <https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/can-fire-occur-non-oxygenated-reaction.html>

This brings quite a bit of questions...

* do Ace flames require any combustion in the first place? You seem quite sure they need oxygen as the oxidizing agent, but then please tell me also what is the fuel that gets combusted.
* if they require combustion, do they use oxygen? If the Logia can create the "fuel" then it should be able to create the oxidizing agent too?
* if Ace powers are a form of combustion that can use any oxidizing agent, can Caesar remove oxygen at atomic level too so that there are no oxygen atoms left? Just to point out the absurdity, this means that Caesar should be able to turn water into hydrogen?  
  etc etc etc.

Seems we won't get anywhere this way, so let's try to compare Ace with someone similar instead.

The Human Torch maybe?
This scene from a comic is quite similar to what you seem to expect: a foe removes oxygen from the area and the Human Torch flames are affected.

[![The Human Torch claims that his flames will die out without oxygen after a foe used that trick against him](https://i.sstatic.net/cLmD4.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/cLmD4.jpg)

But in another panel form a different comic he can fly thru space despite the lack of air...

[![Human Torch in space without oxygen](https://i.sstatic.net/3JoX9.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/3JoX9.png)

... or at least he can until he can not in yet another issue.

[![but he then remembers there is no oxygen there](https://i.sstatic.net/oUujr.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/oUujr.png)

... and don't get me even started on "Power Cosmic" Human Torch.

Let's look elsewhere.
In Fire Force the (basic) Infernals seems to be subject to dousing like any flame would - Akitaru Ōbi even uses dousing grenades. At the same time there are scenes where the acutal Adolla flame is shown to be demonic in the real meaning of the term and it does not seem to douse in any way.  
In Ben10 Heatblast can't breath in space and is weak to water, oxygen deprivation and anything you would expect to douse a flame.  
Then you have Jaganshi Hiei from YuYu Hakusho dark flame, which isn't conventional by any mean and is probably more of a demonic flame too.

and so on, I think you get the point: every show has its set of rules, even when we are talking of the same base trope...

At the end of the day only Oda could decide how the fight would go. You imagine Caesar dousing Ace fire, but Oda could as well decide to go for a not-even-worth-my-time scenario with "Caesar explodes as soon as he tries to turn to gas because gas+fire=boom". Considering that the Ace is dead and many expect Sabo to face Akainu for revenge at some point, I would not be surprised by a "I'll mop the floor with you" battle with the Flame Flame fruit revealed to be not physical fire but the very idea of burning and awake to spontaneous combustion of anything near, including Akainu's magma. After all, it is not like other fruits weren't presented for what they actually were in the first place... so maybe suddenly the Mera Mera will actually be Hito Hito No Mi, Model: Kitsune.

That said, again, this is just speculation and unless Caesar does try this against Sabo now we will probably never know if that would have worked unless someone asks Oda directly in the SBS corner.
> **Comments:**
> **username_0** (2023-08-25): U say Caesar would blast as soon as he touches fire, as he is composed of gas. Thus he must be composed of inflammable gases to be capable of blasting. But that would mean that he is composed of other gases as well. Like Arsine, Diborane or Phosphine which burn spontaneously on contact with air, depending on temperature and humidity. So he must be literally BLASTING ALL THE TIME. But he isn't, which would mean that he is able to control his gas composition.Also, if he removes oxygen from air, fire i.e. Ace can't just burn. Ace must then be helpless because without oxygen fire can't burn.  
> **username_2** (2023-08-25): @AyanDutta No, I said that since the author never wrote out that battle, anything is just speculation. The few info we have about the Flame fruit is that Akainu considered his magma as "superior". But that could be very well a red herring since Ace simply HAD to be very weak after all the time spent in prison, and I wouldn't put it past Oda to have planted that line so that a future Sabo VS Akainu battle will be a crush-stomp in Sabo favor.  
---
