<p>If you haven't noticed, your question is actually very difficult. Firstly, because <em>OreGairu</em> is probably the most psychologically intelligent anime ever in my view. But secondly, because there are actually so many aspects which everyone misses unless they watch and rewatch and understand symbolism that any answer is never completely correct.</p>

<p>Haruno is not evil nor is she bad. Instead, she's extremely strong willed, and Yukino has said countless times she wants to be like Haruno and be the upstanding member of her family. Alas, she's not... Haruno is. However, Haruno has always looked out for Yukino and wants her to be self-dependent but come back to their family at the same time.</p>

<p>Yukinon has always tried to be like Haruno. But by doing so, Haruno believes that she'll never be her own person --which is true-- while Haruno has always been her dependent. Yukinon wants to break out of her sister's shadow and be her own person, but she can't do that by relying on Hikigaya because their methods are so different and Haruno can see that Hikigaya is ridiculously intelligent which is why he gets results every time.</p>

<p>One problem with <em>OreGairu</em> right now is the lack of previous information. We don't have perfect access to everyone's background which makes sense in a way as we are able to build a picture of the characters as they are now. However, it also means we don't know exactly what happened to Yukinon as a child and Hayama and therefore, some references are really just take as they are. Yukinon has been bullied in the past as she has said and Hayama didn't help her, which is obvious. However, we don't have details around these instances so how they've affected Yukinon is opinion only.</p>

<p>Regardless, Haruno's words should not be taken at face value. Her saying she believes Yukinon is using Hikigaya isn't correct because everyone can see they care for each other and both would work in a relationship. However, she may believe that Hikigaya may influence Yukinon in a certain way that would affect her future and therefore doesn't want that.</p>

<p>Like I said, it's a difficult question but the main answer would be: Haruno has been like a mother to Yukinon for years and believes it's not in her best interest to start following Hikigaya and becoming dependent on him instead of her.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-23T10:29:49.857Z
2018-04-23T10:56:13.467Z
2018-04-23T10:56:13.467Z
End of Era
<p>Spoon feeding. There is absolutely no problem being dependent, but that wasn't just dependent, it was akin to spoon feeding.</p>
<p>During the Christmas fest at Destinyland, Yukino had cold feet before the ride, then she tells how she didn't know what to do, she didn't know how to act. This is because she had always looked up to Haruno, living in her shadow. So, things that Haruno didn't have to face or things she didn't see Haruno face, yet the same things she has to, she just doesn't know the right way to. There is this signature expression she has in these scenarios.</p>
<p>It was this same expression during the cultural fest. Knowing Haruno, she was always loved and probably never faced the trouble of being neglected or left out. Haruno orchestrated this scenario by manipulating the Cultural Committee president. She was bringing up these challenges for Yukino to grow as an individual. You see then as well, Yukino doesn't know how to act, she should have tackled the problem of being underhanded first, but she just kept a blind eye there. They were by no means a big task for Yukino but she still couldn't act and overburdened herself, but Hachiman's interference solved it for her. As I said, this is akin to spoon-feeding. This kind of dependency isn't helping her growth at all. Now knowing Yukino's convictions, she isn't really proud of being rescued this way. That + all the other times, she really didn't have any means or answers and left it to Hachiman for solving. Our man Hachiman would solve it in the most repulsive, morally degrading, and self-deprecating way possible, but this latter part has little to do with this codependency thing Haruno brought up because this part was resolved back when Hachiman requested for 'Something real' and Hachiman started becoming mindful of how he resolved things, and in fact <em>also got them closer</em>. Keep this point in mind, it will be useful later.
This all is Yukino's independence struggle in the codependency of a relationship in the service club.
Yukino isn't codependent though, she is a normal troubled child as Haruno said.</p>
<p>Now moving to the codependent:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Hikigaya Hachiman.
According to Haruno, Hikigaya finds forbidden pleasure in helping Yukino, and that he acts as a bad guy (making himself the enemy, self-deprecation, etc). Apparently, this is him being codependent. What I want to say is that the codependency Haruno speaks of here is a relationship dynamic, but Hachiman being the grand loner, would frankly be happy when helping anyone. Logically speaking, you wouldn't be helping anyone if it didn't appeal to you, I bet Zaimokuza and Saika would agree with me here, so does this mean it isn't codependency? No, it is codependency because this dynamic affected them negatively, just not the same as the usual kind Haruno mentioned, The symptoms may be the same, but not the cause.</p>
<p>The not getting drunk part of Hachiman is also a kind of codependency (but not just a club relationship dynamic). It's more general. He, like Haruno, wears a mask. Unlike Haruno whose mask brings people closer to her, his mask keeps him away from people. It is the culmination of all his past experiences, the trauma, the reason for his reluctance in involving with someone, the reason why he needs an excuse to help someone, the reason he deceives himself into thinking 'we are not so close to being considered friends', also the reason why he comes up with bullshit like 'a man's pride'.</p>
</li>
<li><p>Yuigahama.
Every reason Haruno says about Yui being codependent is true.
She puts up with all the nonsense Yukino and Hachiman do, she knows about their thoughts, she is selfish and wants it all, and the things she does affects the dynamics in their relationship in a very bad way.
But as I said, just because the symptoms are the same doesn't mean the underlying cause is too. Haruno came up with this another generic codependency definition which more or less goes like 'codependents find value in being needed by someone' or 'feeling happy when helping'. That's more or less what Haruno said, but Yuigahama counters it with how bad it hurts her, if doing so hurts her, but she still does it, certainly, there is more to it than just codependency.</p>
<p>I have mentioned a couple of times how the relationship dynamic was affected negatively, but how exactly.</p>
<p>You see after that confession request, there was growing resentment and animosity towards Hachiman's actions, then how Hachiman treated Yukino and Yui as fragile dolls, indulgence in shallow talk, and never changed the weather of the club room. This ended awkwardly with Hachiman's 'something real' req. I call this the conviction trouble phase.</p>
<p>So what's the deal now? It's the relationship trouble phase.</p>
<p>Immediately after that, there was just so much fluff, so much happiness, and beauty, but where there is beauty there is also beast (I don't mean Hachiman).</p>
<p>Hachiman tried to understand Yui and Yukino more, and certainly, they did too. Consequently, they were growing each other closer, their feelings deepening, but they still didn't re-evaluate their distances, and they still didn't update their interpersonal relationships. The resentment, dude!
Imagine having to give your lover Valentine's cookies on a serving tray, all the while you carry a pouch of handmade cookies you wanted to give him/her but couldn't. The club was going to bits inevitably. They were just playing pretend. By the time high school comes to an end, it would vanish as if none of it ever existed in the first place.</p>
<p>Sob when Yukino saw that fact on penguin relationships from some questionable source (joke), she thought it's best if she just left, at least Yui would get her wish.</p>
<p>That time during the Destinyland Christmas ride, Yukino said Haruno and Hachiman have something that she doesn't. What is it that Haruno and Hachiman have that she doesn't, it's that convenient fake persona that they both have. It helps them act what they are not. Hachiman can act like a villain. He just feeds himself that he is alone, so it doesn't matter if he does this, it's not going to affect him anyways, and Haruno is that ideal girl who is perfect at what she does.
But Yukino doesn't have this 'fake persona', so she wanted something else. That something else being 'something real' (opposite of fake is real).</p>
<p>When Haruno says after the prom ended, that this prom was just a consolation prize for not getting what Yukino really wanted. My intrusive thoughts at this point went on like Yukino did all this because when it's their time to graduate, she could remember all these memories for the one last time and move ahead. I think so because they could have just forced the prom to happen, but Yukino didn't want that, she wanted it to be a thing in that high school.</p>
</li>
<li><p>Haruno Yukinoshita.
After saying all this, I would feel bad if I don't say this.
Haruno is the most common kind of codependent you would see anywhere, it's so relatable that anyone with an abusive parent would know. The fake persona is so real, like when you speak to your parent who doesn't like when you reply in a way that strikes him in a bad way, so you speak in a predictable manner, and go along with all the nonsense they utter, with time it almost becomes a habit, you don't even know why you become that way, how did it start, you don't agree with it, somewhere deep down you really hate it but you can't help it, it happens spontaneously. Every other codependency thing was almost fictitious except Haruno's.</p>
</li>
</ol>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-06-16T14:58:47.480Z
2023-06-16T17:39:54.947Z
2023-06-16T17:39:54.947Z
Rahul Paul
<p>During the last several episodes of Oregairu Season 2 (Volume 10 in LN I think), Yukinoshita's sister was warning Hikigaya about this "sinister" relationship building up between him and Yukinoshita, and she said that their relationship is in no way genuine and that Yukinoshita is just depending on Hikigaya. </p>

<p>My confusion is: What is this dependency problem exactly? Clearly Yukinoshita has developed feelings for Hikigaya in the last few episodes, so isn't relying on each other a symbolism of trust? What is the exact thing that Yukinoshita Haruno seem so worried about?</p>

<oregairu>
What exactly is the problem with Yukinoshita Yukino being dependent on Hikigaya Hachiman?
# What exactly is the problem with Yukinoshita Yukino being dependent on Hikigaya Hachiman?
Posted by: username_0 on 2018-04-03
During the last several episodes of Oregairu Season 2 (Volume 10 in LN I think), Yukinoshita's sister was warning Hikigaya about this "sinister" relationship building up between him and Yukinoshita, and she said that their relationship is in no way genuine and that Yukinoshita is just depending on Hikigaya.

My confusion is: What is this dependency problem exactly? Clearly Yukinoshita has developed feelings for Hikigaya in the last few episodes, so isn't relying on each other a symbolism of trust? What is the exact thing that Yukinoshita Haruno seem so worried about?
**Tags:** oregairu
---
## 2 answers
### Answer by username_1 on 2018-04-23. Score: 4 | Accepted answer
If you haven't noticed, your question is actually very difficult. Firstly, because *OreGairu* is probably the most psychologically intelligent anime ever in my view. But secondly, because there are actually so many aspects which everyone misses unless they watch and rewatch and understand symbolism that any answer is never completely correct.

Haruno is not evil nor is she bad. Instead, she's extremely strong willed, and Yukino has said countless times she wants to be like Haruno and be the upstanding member of her family. Alas, she's not... Haruno is. However, Haruno has always looked out for Yukino and wants her to be self-dependent but come back to their family at the same time.

Yukinon has always tried to be like Haruno. But by doing so, Haruno believes that she'll never be her own person --which is true-- while Haruno has always been her dependent. Yukinon wants to break out of her sister's shadow and be her own person, but she can't do that by relying on Hikigaya because their methods are so different and Haruno can see that Hikigaya is ridiculously intelligent which is why he gets results every time.

One problem with *OreGairu* right now is the lack of previous information. We don't have perfect access to everyone's background which makes sense in a way as we are able to build a picture of the characters as they are now. However, it also means we don't know exactly what happened to Yukinon as a child and Hayama and therefore, some references are really just take as they are. Yukinon has been bullied in the past as she has said and Hayama didn't help her, which is obvious. However, we don't have details around these instances so how they've affected Yukinon is opinion only.

Regardless, Haruno's words should not be taken at face value. Her saying she believes Yukinon is using Hikigaya isn't correct because everyone can see they care for each other and both would work in a relationship. However, she may believe that Hikigaya may influence Yukinon in a certain way that would affect her future and therefore doesn't want that.

Like I said, it's a difficult question but the main answer would be: Haruno has been like a mother to Yukinon for years and believes it's not in her best interest to start following Hikigaya and becoming dependent on him instead of her.
---
### Answer by username_2 on 2023-06-16. Score: 0
Spoon feeding. There is absolutely no problem being dependent, but that wasn't just dependent, it was akin to spoon feeding.

During the Christmas fest at Destinyland, Yukino had cold feet before the ride, then she tells how she didn't know what to do, she didn't know how to act. This is because she had always looked up to Haruno, living in her shadow. So, things that Haruno didn't have to face or things she didn't see Haruno face, yet the same things she has to, she just doesn't know the right way to. There is this signature expression she has in these scenarios.

It was this same expression during the cultural fest. Knowing Haruno, she was always loved and probably never faced the trouble of being neglected or left out. Haruno orchestrated this scenario by manipulating the Cultural Committee president. She was bringing up these challenges for Yukino to grow as an individual. You see then as well, Yukino doesn't know how to act, she should have tackled the problem of being underhanded first, but she just kept a blind eye there. They were by no means a big task for Yukino but she still couldn't act and overburdened herself, but Hachiman's interference solved it for her. As I said, this is akin to spoon-feeding. This kind of dependency isn't helping her growth at all. Now knowing Yukino's convictions, she isn't really proud of being rescued this way. That + all the other times, she really didn't have any means or answers and left it to Hachiman for solving. Our man Hachiman would solve it in the most repulsive, morally degrading, and self-deprecating way possible, but this latter part has little to do with this codependency thing Haruno brought up because this part was resolved back when Hachiman requested for 'Something real' and Hachiman started becoming mindful of how he resolved things, and in fact *also got them closer*. Keep this point in mind, it will be useful later.
This all is Yukino's independence struggle in the codependency of a relationship in the service club.
Yukino isn't codependent though, she is a normal troubled child as Haruno said.

Now moving to the codependent:

1. Hikigaya Hachiman.
   According to Haruno, Hikigaya finds forbidden pleasure in helping Yukino, and that he acts as a bad guy (making himself the enemy, self-deprecation, etc). Apparently, this is him being codependent. What I want to say is that the codependency Haruno speaks of here is a relationship dynamic, but Hachiman being the grand loner, would frankly be happy when helping anyone. Logically speaking, you wouldn't be helping anyone if it didn't appeal to you, I bet Zaimokuza and Saika would agree with me here, so does this mean it isn't codependency? No, it is codependency because this dynamic affected them negatively, just not the same as the usual kind Haruno mentioned, The symptoms may be the same, but not the cause.

   The not getting drunk part of Hachiman is also a kind of codependency (but not just a club relationship dynamic). It's more general. He, like Haruno, wears a mask. Unlike Haruno whose mask brings people closer to her, his mask keeps him away from people. It is the culmination of all his past experiences, the trauma, the reason for his reluctance in involving with someone, the reason why he needs an excuse to help someone, the reason he deceives himself into thinking 'we are not so close to being considered friends', also the reason why he comes up with bullshit like 'a man's pride'.
2. Yuigahama.
   Every reason Haruno says about Yui being codependent is true.
   She puts up with all the nonsense Yukino and Hachiman do, she knows about their thoughts, she is selfish and wants it all, and the things she does affects the dynamics in their relationship in a very bad way.
   But as I said, just because the symptoms are the same doesn't mean the underlying cause is too. Haruno came up with this another generic codependency definition which more or less goes like 'codependents find value in being needed by someone' or 'feeling happy when helping'. That's more or less what Haruno said, but Yuigahama counters it with how bad it hurts her, if doing so hurts her, but she still does it, certainly, there is more to it than just codependency.

   I have mentioned a couple of times how the relationship dynamic was affected negatively, but how exactly.

   You see after that confession request, there was growing resentment and animosity towards Hachiman's actions, then how Hachiman treated Yukino and Yui as fragile dolls, indulgence in shallow talk, and never changed the weather of the club room. This ended awkwardly with Hachiman's 'something real' req. I call this the conviction trouble phase.

   So what's the deal now? It's the relationship trouble phase.

   Immediately after that, there was just so much fluff, so much happiness, and beauty, but where there is beauty there is also beast (I don't mean Hachiman).

   Hachiman tried to understand Yui and Yukino more, and certainly, they did too. Consequently, they were growing each other closer, their feelings deepening, but they still didn't re-evaluate their distances, and they still didn't update their interpersonal relationships. The resentment, dude!
   Imagine having to give your lover Valentine's cookies on a serving tray, all the while you carry a pouch of handmade cookies you wanted to give him/her but couldn't. The club was going to bits inevitably. They were just playing pretend. By the time high school comes to an end, it would vanish as if none of it ever existed in the first place.

   Sob when Yukino saw that fact on penguin relationships from some questionable source (joke), she thought it's best if she just left, at least Yui would get her wish.

   That time during the Destinyland Christmas ride, Yukino said Haruno and Hachiman have something that she doesn't. What is it that Haruno and Hachiman have that she doesn't, it's that convenient fake persona that they both have. It helps them act what they are not. Hachiman can act like a villain. He just feeds himself that he is alone, so it doesn't matter if he does this, it's not going to affect him anyways, and Haruno is that ideal girl who is perfect at what she does.
   But Yukino doesn't have this 'fake persona', so she wanted something else. That something else being 'something real' (opposite of fake is real).

   When Haruno says after the prom ended, that this prom was just a consolation prize for not getting what Yukino really wanted. My intrusive thoughts at this point went on like Yukino did all this because when it's their time to graduate, she could remember all these memories for the one last time and move ahead. I think so because they could have just forced the prom to happen, but Yukino didn't want that, she wanted it to be a thing in that high school.
3. Haruno Yukinoshita.
   After saying all this, I would feel bad if I don't say this.
   Haruno is the most common kind of codependent you would see anywhere, it's so relatable that anyone with an abusive parent would know. The fake persona is so real, like when you speak to your parent who doesn't like when you reply in a way that strikes him in a bad way, so you speak in a predictable manner, and go along with all the nonsense they utter, with time it almost becomes a habit, you don't even know why you become that way, how did it start, you don't agree with it, somewhere deep down you really hate it but you can't help it, it happens spontaneously. Every other codependency thing was almost fictitious except Haruno's.
---
