<p>I work at a national lab and in a directorate that employs many theoretical computer scientists, of which some do not have PhDs.</p>

<p>I think that what would differentiate or establish you would be a quality of your work.
If you are a talented theoretician, strong at algorithms and you can/have been publishing your work in reputable theoretical computer science journals then I do not see why place like national lab would not hire you.</p>

<p>PhD is a testimony of ones ability to pursue relevant and significant research on his or her own.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-01-10T09:11:45.943Z
If you are a talented theoretician who is strong at algorithms then it sounds like you're material for a PhD programme. On the other hand, if you're not in a PhD programme and you're not yet employed by a research institution, you're presumably holding down a full-time job that doesn't involve CS research. Where are you going to find the time to do research and publish it in high-quality journals? Finally, most PhD research these days is highly collaborative: it's not at all about working on your own.
David Richerby
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-02T02:30:33.213Z
2012-08-02T02:30:33.213Z
Edmon
<p>I am an undergraduate, and have recently come to terms with the fact that I may not have the intellect to do research in theoretical computer science, or be able to be admitted into and complete a PhD program.  However, I would still like to be involved with theoretical computer science as I find it very interesting.  So far, the only careers in theoretical computer science that do not require a PhD that I can think of would be being a secretary or administrative assistant for the theory group in some university.  Are there any others?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-07-31T20:47:58.633Z
Popular science writer? You could write the next Godel Escher Bach. But I'd advise you not to sell yourself short too soon -- most scientists have at some point doubted whether they had what it took to succeed in their field, before they discovered that they did.
Aaron Roth
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-07-31T21:05:56.573Z
Another idea is to work for an academic publisher, though the consensus is that this industry is about to go through radical change.  But what industry isn't these days?  Also, I agree with @Aaron about not selling yourself short too early.
Lev Reyzin
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-07-31T22:39:55.827Z
Perhaps you are very lucid about your own abilities. On the other hand, here in France, I can't think of anybody that knew they were going to do a PhD while an undergraduate. When you are an undergraduate, a PhD, and the amount of "imagination" you assume you will require is daunting---in part because most PhD's you've heard about at that point are geniuses.
Jérémie
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-01T02:42:34.327Z
Discouragement is common, at all stages. Take a look [at this question](http://academia.stackexchange.com/q/2219/66). Don't give up!
Artem Kaznatcheev
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-01T15:51:13.867Z
Contrary to what everybody else is saying, I would suggest you to consider a more relaxed approach toward your future employment. Why does it have to do anything with **theoretical** computer science? Perhaps there are other things you would enjoy? Do you really think you'll enjoy being a secretary? Plus, the job market in TCS-related jobs (or even TCS) is quite small. Why limit yourself?
Yuval Filmus
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-01T16:48:45.123Z
Whether or not you try for a PhD is a personal decision only you can make.  But I have some perspective, as a guy in his 40s working on a CS PhD.  First:  Having a PhD is not everything, and you can live a long and happy life without one.  I wanted to get one right out of undergrad and for various reasons, didn't.  I had (and have!) a great career in industry.  Second:  If and when you get accepted to a program, that sense that you're not smart enough won't magically go away.  At least, it hasn't for me.  It haunts most (maybe all) of us.
Novak
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2012-08-01T16:52:07.073Z
@Novak: I think having that feeling is largely independent of how good you actually are.
Joe Fitzsimons
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-01T20:46:59.790Z
@Yuval: I've taken quite a few theory classes, and those are the ones I've enjoyed the most.  On the other hand, I've had a few internships in industry that I did not enjoy.  Although being a secretary might not be the best job, it would be nice in that I would get to interact with those that do theory on a regular basis and maybe I could talk about their research.  If no other jobs in theory exist that is fine, I can do something else, but I would like to see what is out there.
user10240
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-02T09:55:07.303Z
@user10240: You're painting a very romantic picture, but the stark reality is that most people work at a job they are at best indifferent about. As a secretary in a CS department, don't expect to "talk theory" with the researchers; life is not a Hollywood movie! Instead you'll spend your time preparing and collating forms. I suggest you wait a while until this dream dissolves, and a more practical life plan replaces it.
Yuval Filmus
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-08-02T17:46:56.557Z
some in academia & even elsewhere refer to the PhD as a "union card" which tells you something. also note how many people say they have an ABD... "all but dissertation".... another option is to stay a graduate student & maybe a teaching assistant for an indefinite period of time, if youre not insistent about high pay.... as they say sometimes "dont quit your day job".... do it as a hobby. there are many ways to cultivate it in cyberspace eg online university courses (maybe even with prof office/chat hrs), papers, forums, emails, chat, etc
vzn
<soft-question><career>
What are some careers in theoretical computer science that do not require a PhD?
user10240
# What are some careers in theoretical computer science that do not require a PhD?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2012-07-31)

I am an undergraduate, and have recently come to terms with the fact that I may not have the intellect to do research in theoretical computer science, or be able to be admitted into and complete a PhD program. However, I would still like to be involved with theoretical computer science as I find it very interesting. So far, the only careers in theoretical computer science that do not require a PhD that I can think of would be being a secretary or administrative assistant for the theory group in some university. Are there any others?

**Tags:** soft-question, career
> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Popular science writer? You could write the next Godel Escher Bach. But I'd advise you not to sell yourself short too soon -- most scientists have at some point doubted whether they had what it took to succeed in their field, before they discovered that they did.  
> **username_2**: Another idea is to work for an academic publisher, though the consensus is that this industry is about to go through radical change.  But what industry isn't these days?  Also, I agree with @Aaron about not selling yourself short too early.  
> **username_3**: Perhaps you are very lucid about your own abilities. On the other hand, here in France, I can't think of anybody that knew they were going to do a PhD while an undergraduate. When you are an undergraduate, a PhD, and the amount of "imagination" you assume you will require is daunting---in part because most PhD's you've heard about at that point are geniuses.  
> **username_4**: Discouragement is common, at all stages. Take a look [at this question](http://academia.stackexchange.com/q/2219/66). Don't give up!  
> **username_5**: Contrary to what everybody else is saying, I would suggest you to consider a more relaxed approach toward your future employment. Why does it have to do anything with **theoretical** computer science? Perhaps there are other things you would enjoy? Do you really think you'll enjoy being a secretary? Plus, the job market in TCS-related jobs (or even TCS) is quite small. Why limit yourself?  
> **username_6**: Whether or not you try for a PhD is a personal decision only you can make.  But I have some perspective, as a guy in his 40s working on a CS PhD.  First:  Having a PhD is not everything, and you can live a long and happy life without one.  I wanted to get one right out of undergrad and for various reasons, didn't.  I had (and have!) a great career in industry.  Second:  If and when you get accepted to a program, that sense that you're not smart enough won't magically go away.  At least, it hasn't for me.  It haunts most (maybe all) of us.  
> **username_7**: @Novak: I think having that feeling is largely independent of how good you actually are.  
> **username_0**: @Yuval: I've taken quite a few theory classes, and those are the ones I've enjoyed the most.  On the other hand, I've had a few internships in industry that I did not enjoy.  Although being a secretary might not be the best job, it would be nice in that I would get to interact with those that do theory on a regular basis and maybe I could talk about their research.  If no other jobs in theory exist that is fine, I can do something else, but I would like to see what is out there.  
> **username_5**: @user10240: You're painting a very romantic picture, but the stark reality is that most people work at a job they are at best indifferent about. As a secretary in a CS department, don't expect to "talk theory" with the researchers; life is not a Hollywood movie! Instead you'll spend your time preparing and collating forms. I suggest you wait a while until this dream dissolves, and a more practical life plan replaces it.  
> **username_8**: some in academia & even elsewhere refer to the PhD as a "union card" which tells you something. also note how many people say they have an ABD... "all but dissertation".... another option is to stay a graduate student & maybe a teaching assistant for an indefinite period of time, if youre not insistent about high pay.... as they say sometimes "dont quit your day job".... do it as a hobby. there are many ways to cultivate it in cyberspace eg online university courses (maybe even with prof office/chat hrs), papers, forums, emails, chat, etc  

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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_9 on 2012-08-02. Score: 9

I work at a national lab and in a directorate that employs many theoretical computer scientists, of which some do not have PhDs.

I think that what would differentiate or establish you would be a quality of your work.
If you are a talented theoretician, strong at algorithms and you can/have been publishing your work in reputable theoretical computer science journals then I do not see why place like national lab would not hire you.

PhD is a testimony of ones ability to pursue relevant and significant research on his or her own.

> **Comments:**
> **username_10**: If you are a talented theoretician who is strong at algorithms then it sounds like you're material for a PhD programme. On the other hand, if you're not in a PhD programme and you're not yet employed by a research institution, you're presumably holding down a full-time job that doesn't involve CS research. Where are you going to find the time to do research and publish it in high-quality journals? Finally, most PhD research these days is highly collaborative: it's not at all about working on your own.  

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