<p>I was reading an article about early black holes found by JWST at Redshift 9. And saw that there was wonder at how large amounts of gas could collapse into a black hole as a theory.</p>
<p>So my question is this: could the gas pressure have created a Metallic Hydrogen or otherwise dense core due to intense pressure which lead to a black hole collapse?</p>
<p>In the current age of the universe, the gas giants made of hydrogen could have Metallic Hydrogen near the core, so could we use this as a model for how compact early universe gas could've behaved, albeit under more intense early universe conditions?</p>
<p>If the core formed from the gas was rotating (as fast as a pulsar for example) in the early universe and was rotating too fast to maintain a stable state to start fusion yet maintained it's core, then could it go straight to a collapse with an abundance of material around it?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-11-05T19:05:18.597Z
The term "gas giant" refers to planets, not the huge gas clouds required for direct collapse to a black hole. We don't know how big such clouds were (or if such direct collapse even occurred), but at the very least it would be many hundreds of solar masses, and probably involved substantial amounts of dark matter. Here's an excellent answer by Prallax on the related topic of BH formation in early stars: https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/50213/16685
PM 2Ring
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-11-05T19:10:12.567Z
Remember, when a gas cloud collapses, converting gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy, it heats up. And hot gas tends to expand, opposing the contraction process. This makes star formation a slow process, especially when the gas has low metallacity, so it can't easily radiate the heat away.
PM 2Ring
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-11-05T22:05:30.117Z
I use gas giant loosely. Because I'm not sure how to convey the thought that even in the early universe, enough gas collapsing would form metallic hydrogen or a core similar to the gas giants we know today. I am curious about the BH formation link you posted. I'll give it a look over :)
WiFiSunset
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-11-06T01:04:53.753Z
'Gas giant' has a very specific meaning: gas planet,thus a gasous planet of 10...10000 earth masses. It does not mean gas or molecular cloud from which stars form. You might want to adjust your wording.
planetmaker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-11-06T01:42:32.403Z
@planetmaker you're right. I adjusted the premise of my question and body of thought.
WiFiSunset
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-11-12T20:03:03.343Z
To form metallic hydrogen there are two requirements: high pressure and low temperature. As stated by @PM2Ring, during the collapse the cloud heats up. Once the core reaches the pressures required for metallic hydrogen, the temperature is already too high to form it. The higher the mass of the cloud, the highest the temperature of the core at a given pressure
Prallax
<black-hole><redshift><james-webb-space-telescope><early-universe>
JWST Early Black Holes: Gas Collapsed To Metallic Hydrogen Core?
WiFiSunset
# JWST Early Black Holes: Gas Collapsed To Metallic Hydrogen Core?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-11-05)

I was reading an article about early black holes found by JWST at Redshift 9. And saw that there was wonder at how large amounts of gas could collapse into a black hole as a theory.

So my question is this: could the gas pressure have created a Metallic Hydrogen or otherwise dense core due to intense pressure which lead to a black hole collapse?

In the current age of the universe, the gas giants made of hydrogen could have Metallic Hydrogen near the core, so could we use this as a model for how compact early universe gas could've behaved, albeit under more intense early universe conditions?

If the core formed from the gas was rotating (as fast as a pulsar for example) in the early universe and was rotating too fast to maintain a stable state to start fusion yet maintained it's core, then could it go straight to a collapse with an abundance of material around it?

**Tags:** black-hole, redshift, james-webb-space-telescope, early-universe

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: The term "gas giant" refers to planets, not the huge gas clouds required for direct collapse to a black hole. We don't know how big such clouds were (or if such direct collapse even occurred), but at the very least it would be many hundreds of solar masses, and probably involved substantial amounts of dark matter. Here's an excellent answer by username_3 on the related topic of BH formation in early stars: https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/a/50213/16685  
> **username_1**: Remember, when a gas cloud collapses, converting gravitational potential energy to kinetic energy, it heats up. And hot gas tends to expand, opposing the contraction process. This makes star formation a slow process, especially when the gas has low metallacity, so it can't easily radiate the heat away.  
> **username_0**: I use gas giant loosely. Because I'm not sure how to convey the thought that even in the early universe, enough gas collapsing would form metallic hydrogen or a core similar to the gas giants we know today. I am curious about the BH formation link you posted. I'll give it a look over :)  
> **username_2**: 'Gas giant' has a very specific meaning: gas planet,thus a gasous planet of 10...10000 earth masses. It does not mean gas or molecular cloud from which stars form. You might want to adjust your wording.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 you're right. I adjusted the premise of my question and body of thought.  
> **username_3**: To form metallic hydrogen there are two requirements: high pressure and low temperature. As stated by @username_1, during the collapse the cloud heats up. Once the core reaches the pressures required for metallic hydrogen, the temperature is already too high to form it. The higher the mass of the cloud, the highest the temperature of the core at a given pressure  

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## 0 answers

