<p>The "specified value" would be the latitude of the observer, and would be the average of the maximum and minimum values observed at the solstice.</p>

<p>The altitude of the sun above the horizon is measured when it is due South. This is what "meridian elevation" means. So no clock is required. However this method can at best determine the date of the equinox. Precise observations over several years could be combined to obtain an time of equinox.</p>

<p>The position of the sun above the horizon can be simply determined by measuring the length of a shadow. However Ptolemy had access to astrolabes and quadrants for more accurate measurement of the sun's position.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-03T16:58:25.440Z
He says in his book that when the time of the equinox is measured, the time of the solstice is measured. Is that wrong?
Tyler Durden
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-03T17:07:14.837Z
For "time" read "date". Ptolemy could have estimated the time of equinox from several years of observations but based on direct observation of the sun he could only have found the date of the equinox
James K
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-03T17:10:14.633Z
No, in the book the time of the equinox is measured in fractions of a day. So, for example Hipparchus gives the days of spring as being 94.5 so the intention appears to include fractions of a day.
Tyler Durden
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-03T17:14:20.473Z
If there are no clouds so one can measure the angle of the sun above the ecliptic, one can also read a sundial.
Gerard Ashton
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-03T17:52:09.393Z
The method described uses the meridinal elevation. You can only measure that once per day. Several years of observations could be combined.
James K
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-03T16:49:45.153Z
2018-03-03T17:11:06.997Z
2018-03-03T17:11:06.997Z
James K
<p>Ptolemy and other astronomers of the same time period used what is called an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_ring" rel="nofollow noreferrer">equatorial ring</a>: It’s basically a large ring (≈ 1 metre in diameter) permanently mounted in such a way as to be parallel to the Earth’s equator. Hence the “specified value” mentioned in your question. This value was determined from observing the elevation of stars in the sky—for example, today we may measure the angle between the Pole Star (α UMi or Polaris) and the horizon, which will give us our latitude directly (to about 1° of precision as it is not <em>exactly</em> at the celestial pole). Back then, there was no pole star (due to Earth’s precession), but such a measurement could be handled by Ptolemy and his predecessors.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-06-15T04:16:51.083Z
2023-06-15T04:16:51.083Z
Pierre Paquette
<p>In the book "The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy" by Robert Newton, on page 81, it reads as follows:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>When we measure the time of a solstice, we measure the time when the
  meridian elevation angle of the sun has an extreme value, a maximum in
  the summer, and a minimum in the winter.... When we measure the time
  of an equinox, on the other hand, we measure the time when the
  meridian elevation takes on a specified value.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>What does he mean by a "specified value". What specified value?</p>

<p>Also, how would the ancients have determined the time of the maximum, or the specified value? Time devices in ancient Greece, like water clocks, I suppose would have significant errors. Would they just start the water clock when the sun rose, then marked its level when the "specified value" occurred? That method would seem to have a lot of error.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-06-15T04:38:51.280Z
I asked pretty much the same question, the answer is here: https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/49816/how-was-the-first-point-of-aries-measured-in-ancient-times
Greg Miller
<history><equinox>
How was the time of equinox measured in ancient times?
Tyler Durden
# How was the time of equinox measured in ancient times?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-03-03)

In the book "The Crime of Claudius Ptolemy" by Robert Newton, on page 81, it reads as follows:

> When we measure the time of a solstice, we measure the time when the
> meridian elevation angle of the sun has an extreme value, a maximum in
> the summer, and a minimum in the winter.... When we measure the time
> of an equinox, on the other hand, we measure the time when the
> meridian elevation takes on a specified value.

What does he mean by a "specified value". What specified value?

Also, how would the ancients have determined the time of the maximum, or the specified value? Time devices in ancient Greece, like water clocks, I suppose would have significant errors. Would they just start the water clock when the sun rose, then marked its level when the "specified value" occurred? That method would seem to have a lot of error.

**Tags:** history, equinox

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I asked pretty much the same question, the answer is here: https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/49816/how-was-the-first-point-of-aries-measured-in-ancient-times  

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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2018-03-03. Score: 2

The "specified value" would be the latitude of the observer, and would be the average of the maximum and minimum values observed at the solstice.

The altitude of the sun above the horizon is measured when it is due South. This is what "meridian elevation" means. So no clock is required. However this method can at best determine the date of the equinox. Precise observations over several years could be combined to obtain an time of equinox.

The position of the sun above the horizon can be simply determined by measuring the length of a shadow. However Ptolemy had access to astrolabes and quadrants for more accurate measurement of the sun's position.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: He says in his book that when the time of the equinox is measured, the time of the solstice is measured. Is that wrong?  
> **username_2**: For "time" read "date". Ptolemy could have estimated the time of equinox from several years of observations but based on direct observation of the sun he could only have found the date of the equinox  
> **username_0**: No, in the book the time of the equinox is measured in fractions of a day. So, for example Hipparchus gives the days of spring as being 94.5 so the intention appears to include fractions of a day.  
> **username_3**: If there are no clouds so one can measure the angle of the sun above the ecliptic, one can also read a sundial.  
> **username_2**: The method described uses the meridinal elevation. You can only measure that once per day. Several years of observations could be combined.  

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### Answer by username_4 on 2023-06-15. Score: 1

Ptolemy and other astronomers of the same time period used what is called an [equatorial ring](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equatorial_ring): It’s basically a large ring (≈ 1 metre in diameter) permanently mounted in such a way as to be parallel to the Earth’s equator. Hence the “specified value” mentioned in your question. This value was determined from observing the elevation of stars in the sky—for example, today we may measure the angle between the Pole Star (α UMi or Polaris) and the horizon, which will give us our latitude directly (to about 1° of precision as it is not *exactly* at the celestial pole). Back then, there was no pole star (due to Earth’s precession), but such a measurement could be handled by Ptolemy and his predecessors.


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