<p>In many countries it is expected that a man should ask a woman on a date. But in some other countries (Scandinavia, or the Wodaabe tribe in Africa) it seems to be the other way round (or at least the other way round is acceptable.) </p>

<p>I have noticed that when alcohol is involved women are more likely to approach men (apparently alcohol increases the level of testosterone in women).</p>

<p>Thus psychologically speaking, is this a cultural norm or something innate.</p>

<p>Also, mathematically speaking, it seems that it is better that only one gender does the asking. At least most <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem" rel="nofollow noreferrer">mathematical models</a> assume this. But is this decided biologically or culturally?</p>

<p>(And are there animals that differ in this regard?)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-25T22:53:50.787Z
I think it is more of a cultural thing but it is an interesting question asking if there is a possible reason for the culture.
Chris Rogers
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-26T10:28:32.070Z
It is certainly not "the other way" in Scandinavia. Of course, it is acceptable for women to ask men on dates, but it is not something that happens more commonly than men asking women, or even in equal frequency. I doubt that it really is "the other way" in any human culture that has ever survived (Although I'm open to being convinced). Saying something is due to "culture" is very not explanatory, because then the question follows: why did this culture arise? The existence of cultures need explanations themselves.
Eff
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-26T10:34:22.303Z
From an evolutionary psychologist perspective the prediction is obvious: this would be expected to be partly biological in origin. The short answer would be the differences in parental investment. Given that human females have an extreme investment associated with pregnancy and further raising the child until it is no longer helpless. It would therefore be expected that it's moreso the male's job to woo the female than the other way around (although both ways can coexist). See [Darwinian sex roles confirmed across animal kingdom](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4758741/).
Eff
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-27T00:50:57.230Z
@Eff But in almost every culture women have longer hair. But this is surely a cultural thing as there are a few cultures where men have longer hair. There doesn't seem to be a biological rule for this. But it does help if men look different to women.
zooby
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-27T07:03:38.703Z
@zooby The difference between your hair example is that you said "almost every culture." Whereas I don't know of any very convincing case that there exists *any* culture where women do the majority of initial pursuing. But the point is that this is just one piece of evidence, you can look at the rest of the evidence if you wish. It is also what would *a priori* be predicted from an evolutionary model, mainly due to differences in parental investment. I don't know what a "biological rule" is. As a question this is not answerable, because there is no consensus on the matter.
Eff
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-27T07:18:22.500Z
@zooby For example, I have never heard of any convincing sociological theory that would *a priori* predict that all cultures, many of them independently, turn out to be cultures where this pattern would be the case. Anyway, I don't think I have much more to say on this matter. My guess is that most sociologists would say that this is purely cultural (without any explanation for why all cultures would become like that), whereas evolutionary psychologists would say that it is partly biological in origin. I doubt they would reach a consensus together.
Eff
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-27T09:09:13.087Z
_apparently alcohol increases the level of testosterone in women_ Is there a reference for this  statement? Otherwise I'd opt for deleting it.
Arsak
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-02T03:38:49.130Z
@zooby - I think more proof (studies) than the single *mathematical* model, the 1/ *e* stopping rule, and it's goal of: "... selects the single best candidate about 37% of the time, ..." would improve your question. -- Other more successful methods are likely: ask *everyone* whom can not see you just asked someone else, or invest a minute and tell a good joke then try your luck. Another factor is that it's probably clear enough to women when a man asks, and probably less clear to a man when a woman is either outright asking or deciding if either she *might* ask or hoping the man would.
Rob
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-08-03T00:35:20.780Z
@Rob Well a woman is more likely to say: "If you asked me out, I might not say no." Which is really asking someone out in a round-about socially acceptable sort of way.
zooby
<sexuality>
Is it just a cultural norm that men approach women for dates rather than the other way round?
zooby
# Is it just a cultural norm that men approach women for dates rather than the other way round?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-07-25)

In many countries it is expected that a man should ask a woman on a date. But in some other countries (Scandinavia, or the Wodaabe tribe in Africa) it seems to be the other way round (or at least the other way round is acceptable.)

I have noticed that when alcohol is involved women are more likely to approach men (apparently alcohol increases the level of testosterone in women).

Thus psychologically speaking, is this a cultural norm or something innate.

Also, mathematically speaking, it seems that it is better that only one gender does the asking. At least most [mathematical models](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_problem) assume this. But is this decided biologically or culturally?

(And are there animals that differ in this regard?)

**Tags:** sexuality

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I think it is more of a cultural thing but it is an interesting question asking if there is a possible reason for the culture.  
> **username_2**: It is certainly not "the other way" in Scandinavia. Of course, it is acceptable for women to ask men on dates, but it is not something that happens more commonly than men asking women, or even in equal frequency. I doubt that it really is "the other way" in any human culture that has ever survived (Although I'm open to being convinced). Saying something is due to "culture" is very not explanatory, because then the question follows: why did this culture arise? The existence of cultures need explanations themselves.  
> **username_2**: From an evolutionary psychologist perspective the prediction is obvious: this would be expected to be partly biological in origin. The short answer would be the differences in parental investment. Given that human females have an extreme investment associated with pregnancy and further raising the child until it is no longer helpless. It would therefore be expected that it's moreso the male's job to woo the female than the other way around (although both ways can coexist). See [Darwinian sex roles confirmed across animal kingdom](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4758741/).  
> **username_0**: @username_2 But in almost every culture women have longer hair. But this is surely a cultural thing as there are a few cultures where men have longer hair. There doesn't seem to be a biological rule for this. But it does help if men look different to women.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 The difference between your hair example is that you said "almost every culture." Whereas I don't know of any very convincing case that there exists *any* culture where women do the majority of initial pursuing. But the point is that this is just one piece of evidence, you can look at the rest of the evidence if you wish. It is also what would *a priori* be predicted from an evolutionary model, mainly due to differences in parental investment. I don't know what a "biological rule" is. As a question this is not answerable, because there is no consensus on the matter.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 For example, I have never heard of any convincing sociological theory that would *a priori* predict that all cultures, many of them independently, turn out to be cultures where this pattern would be the case. Anyway, I don't think I have much more to say on this matter. My guess is that most sociologists would say that this is purely cultural (without any explanation for why all cultures would become like that), whereas evolutionary psychologists would say that it is partly biological in origin. I doubt they would reach a consensus together.  
> **username_3**: _apparently alcohol increases the level of testosterone in women_ Is there a reference for this  statement? Otherwise I'd opt for deleting it.  
> **username_4**: @username_0 - I think more proof (studies) than the single *mathematical* model, the 1/ *e* stopping rule, and it's goal of: "... selects the single best candidate about 37% of the time, ..." would improve your question. -- Other more successful methods are likely: ask *everyone* whom can not see you just asked someone else, or invest a minute and tell a good joke then try your luck. Another factor is that it's probably clear enough to women when a man asks, and probably less clear to a man when a woman is either outright asking or deciding if either she *might* ask or hoping the man would.  
> **username_0**: @username_4 Well a woman is more likely to say: "If you asked me out, I might not say no." Which is really asking someone out in a round-about socially acceptable sort of way.  

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## 0 answers

