<p>If you're going to use one of &lt;ъ&gt; or &lt;ь&gt; to represent /ə/, it's probably better to use &lt;ъ&gt;. This letter is currently used to write /ɤ/ in modern Bulgarian, whereas &lt;ь&gt;, as far as I'm aware, is only used to write actual vowels in dead Slavic languages. Moreover, because &lt;ь&gt; historically represented a short front vowel, it is used in modern languages like Russian to indicate palatalisation, something that does not accompany /ə/, whereas, e.g. in both modern (and more widely in pre-reform) Russian, &lt;ъ&gt; marks not a vowel but the absence of palatalisation.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-11-02T16:49:12.347Z
2020-11-02T16:49:12.347Z
Miztli
<p>I'd use neither ь nor ъ because they aren't vowels in Russian or related languages. I could think of Ы that is a vowel and may be the closest by pronunciation, or of Э that looks a bit like a schwa. In extended Cyrillic we even find a true schwa <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa_(Cyrillic)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Ә</a> but this one may be out when we have only a Russian Cyrillic keyboard available.</p>

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2020-10-30T10:07:49.597Z
<ъ> is used to write /ɤ/ in modern Bulgarian (some of which are non-etymological). <ь> and <ъ> were also used to write "ultra-short" vowels in some older Slavic languages, e.g. Old Church Slavonic and Old Russian.
Miztli
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2020-11-02T15:50:43.510Z
@Miztli yeah...
USERNAME GOES HERE
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2020-10-27T12:38:19.840Z
2020-10-27T12:38:19.840Z
Sir Cornflakes
<p>I'd use <code>Ъ</code>. Because:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&lt;ъ&gt; is used to write /ɤ/ in modern Bulgarian (some of which are non-etymological). &lt;ь&gt; and &lt;ъ&gt; were also used to write &quot;ultra-short&quot; vowels in some older Slavic languages, e.g. Old Church Slavonic and Old Russian. – Miztli Oct 30 at 10:07</p>
</blockquote>
<p>But Ь is not used for a vowel in all Cyrillic languages.</p>

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2020-11-02T15:52:27.150Z
2020-11-02T15:52:27.150Z
USERNAME GOES HERE
<p><a href="https://alternatescriptbureau.wordpress.com/2020/04/24/cyrillic-script-for-english/" rel="noreferrer" title="alternative script bureau">Cyrillic for English - (Сарилик фоьр Иңглиш)</a> is an adapted Cyrillic orthography to write English using ь as schwa, so 'sofa' would be written 'соьфь'. Does ь make sense as a schwa or is ъ better? The way I understand it ъ basically forces a pause. Is there really any use for ь or is there something I'm not understanding about how they are used? Is there a character that would make sense to use at the beginning of a word?</p>

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2020-11-02T07:56:55.293Z
Why are there two schwas in your "sofa"?  Also, why do you need a schwa in "sofa" at all?  Or is this some kind of attempt to apply Cyrillic letters to your own ideolect?
elemtilas
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2020-11-02T16:52:52.400Z
Using <и> to represent /ɪ/ and <й> for /iː/ is a bit backwards since the breve on <й> is traditionally used to represent short vowels.
Miztli
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2020-11-05T00:26:13.820Z
@elemtilas The person who created this system on the linked page (not me) assigned 'оь' to the 'oʊ' (oh) sound. I thought maybe ъ would be better for a schwa anyway? 'Sofa' is spelled "soʊfə" in IPA. The 'a' in 'alone' is also a schwa (əloʊn).
jastako
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-11-05T00:48:26.770Z
@jastako K. I spell it [sofʌ], [ʌloʊn]. Pas de ə.
elemtilas
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2020-11-05T01:16:08.683Z
@elemtilas ʌ is 'uh' like the o in 'wonder', ə is shorter than that. It's the second a in 'alphabet'. The reason a symbol like Ә isn't used is to try to use only letters on the Russian keyboard where possible. As it is ҙ is used for 'ð' & ң for ŋ because there is no equivalent to either in Russian Cyrillic. Ц is used for þ, but 'ts' isn't considered a sound in English anyway.
jastako
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-11-05T02:56:20.820Z
@jastako - Exactly my point. This is what happens when you try to apply a different alphabet, in this case Cyrillic, using your own pronunciation. I don't pronounce sofa with a schwa. If you're going to Cyrillicise English, just pick the Cyrillic letter that is closest to the English letter in question, and forget about the dozens of ways people might pronounce the sounds in question!
elemtilas
<writing-systems><phonology>
Which character is best to use for a schwa? Ь or Ъ?
# Which character is best to use for a schwa? Ь or Ъ?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-10-26)

[Cyrillic for English - (Сарилик фоьр Иңглиш)](https://alternatescriptbureau.wordpress.com/2020/04/24/cyrillic-script-for-english/ "alternative script bureau") is an adapted Cyrillic orthography to write English using ь as schwa, so 'sofa' would be written 'соьфь'. Does ь make sense as a schwa or is ъ better? The way I understand it ъ basically forces a pause. Is there really any use for ь or is there something I'm not understanding about how they are used? Is there a character that would make sense to use at the beginning of a word?

**Tags:** writing-systems, phonology

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Why are there two schwas in your "sofa"?  Also, why do you need a schwa in "sofa" at all?  Or is this some kind of attempt to apply Cyrillic letters to your own ideolect?  
> **username_2**: Using <и> to represent /ɪ/ and <й> for /iː/ is a bit backwards since the breve on <й> is traditionally used to represent short vowels.  
> **username_0**: @username_1 The person who created this system on the linked page (not me) assigned 'оь' to the 'oʊ' (oh) sound. I thought maybe ъ would be better for a schwa anyway? 'Sofa' is spelled "soʊfə" in IPA. The 'a' in 'alone' is also a schwa (əloʊn).  
> **username_1**: @username_0 K. I spell it [sofʌ], [ʌloʊn]. Pas de ə.  
> **username_0**: @username_1 ʌ is 'uh' like the o in 'wonder', ə is shorter than that. It's the second a in 'alphabet'. The reason a symbol like Ә isn't used is to try to use only letters on the Russian keyboard where possible. As it is ҙ is used for 'ð' & ң for ŋ because there is no equivalent to either in Russian Cyrillic. Ц is used for þ, but 'ts' isn't considered a sound in English anyway.  
> **username_1**: @username_0 - Exactly my point. This is what happens when you try to apply a different alphabet, in this case Cyrillic, using your own pronunciation. I don't pronounce sofa with a schwa. If you're going to Cyrillicise English, just pick the Cyrillic letter that is closest to the English letter in question, and forget about the dozens of ways people might pronounce the sounds in question!  

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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2020-11-02. Score: 4

If you're going to use one of <ъ> or <ь> to represent /ə/, it's probably better to use <ъ>. This letter is currently used to write /ɤ/ in modern Bulgarian, whereas <ь>, as far as I'm aware, is only used to write actual vowels in dead Slavic languages. Moreover, because <ь> historically represented a short front vowel, it is used in modern languages like Russian to indicate palatalisation, something that does not accompany /ə/, whereas, e.g. in both modern (and more widely in pre-reform) Russian, <ъ> marks not a vowel but the absence of palatalisation.


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### Answer by username_3 on 2020-10-27. Score: 1

I'd use neither ь nor ъ because they aren't vowels in Russian or related languages. I could think of Ы that is a vowel and may be the closest by pronunciation, or of Э that looks a bit like a schwa. In extended Cyrillic we even find a true schwa [Ә](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwa_(Cyrillic)) but this one may be out when we have only a Russian Cyrillic keyboard available.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: <ъ> is used to write /ɤ/ in modern Bulgarian (some of which are non-etymological). <ь> and <ъ> were also used to write "ultra-short" vowels in some older Slavic languages, e.g. Old Church Slavonic and Old Russian.  
> **username_4**: @username_2 yeah...  

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### Answer by username_4 on 2020-11-02. Score: 0

I'd use `Ъ`. Because:

> <ъ> is used to write /ɤ/ in modern Bulgarian (some of which are non-etymological). <ь> and <ъ> were also used to write "ultra-short" vowels in some older Slavic languages, e.g. Old Church Slavonic and Old Russian. – username_2 Oct 30 at 10:07

But Ь is not used for a vowel in all Cyrillic languages.


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