<p><strong>以</strong> means "<strong>with</strong>" here</p>

<p>[授人(give people)] [<strong>以</strong>  <strong>(with)</strong>] [鱼 (fish)] [不如 (not as good as)] [授人 (teach people)] [<strong>以</strong>  <strong>(with)</strong> ] [渔 (lessons of fishing)]</p>

<ul>
<li>授 can mean "to give" or " to teach"</li>
<li>鱼 is noun for "fish"</li>
<li>渔 is verb for "to fish"</li>
</ul>

<p>授人以鱼不如授人以渔 = " It is better to teach someone to fish than give someone fish. "</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:04:05.620Z
'以 is 'with'?? How do you figure that? Where did you get that from?
Gangosa
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2016-08-22T03:10:29.780Z
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/461/  definition 4
Tang Ho
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2016-08-22T03:22:29.653Z
Example: 待人**以**誠，(treat people **with** sincerity); **以**仁治天下 ( govern the world **with** kindness) ;  **以**文會友 (make friends **with** written works) ; **以**武力反抗 ( resist **with** force)
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T10:38:20.120Z
Thanks, that is very interesting! And thanks for the link, I'd never heard of that dictionary! I don't think I would use 'with' each time, but the idea is great! But you would not translate '授人以鱼‘ as 'give person with fish' I think!
Gangosa
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2016-08-22T11:40:08.230Z
How about " donate with fish"? similar to " donate with your own money." "with" here basically means " using"
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T00:49:01.527Z
2016-08-22T03:31:39.750Z
2016-08-22T03:31:39.750Z
Tang Ho
<p>i guess the sentence "授人以魚不如授人以漁" is translated, pretending in the style of literary chinese, from the quote</p>

<pre><code>"give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day.
 teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime"
</code></pre>

<p>which is derived from anne isabella's writing; here's the link to the investigation:</p>

<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/28/fish/" rel="nofollow">http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/28/fish/</a></p>

<p>imo, it's marginally acceptable. the original quote could be translated without 以, e.g.:</p>

<pre><code>授之魚未若教之漁
</code></pre>

<p>added another translation:</p>

<pre><code>授之魚﹒苟延而已﹒未若教之漁﹒裨益一生
</code></pre>

<p>have fun :)</p>

<p>added info:</p>

<pre><code>What if I rewrite "授人以鱼不如授人以渔“ as "把鱼授人不如把渔教人“? 
It is not as poetic, but is it the same or completely wrong?
If acceptable, we have 以 is 把。
</code></pre>

<p>把魚授人 is OK; but 把漁教人, imo, is unacceptable. the least change of it is </p>

<pre><code>把魚授人不如教人以漁
</code></pre>

<p>as i said before in another comment, that with 10 characters only, 3 of them (魚, 如, 漁) have similar pronunciation is not good, better to avoid it.</p>

<p>in <strong>literary chinese</strong>, "以" has numerous usages. let's use 教人以漁 as an example:</p>

<p>if you keep the sequence, it could be interpreted as </p>

<pre><code>teaching (教) someone (人) to fish (漁)
</code></pre>

<p>以 serves the purpose of make it 4 letters long; however, it's not possible to omit 以, "教人漁" is odd.</p>

<p>next, if you change the sequence to 以漁教人, it could be interpreted as</p>

<pre><code>using (以) fishing techniques (漁) to teach (教) people (人)
</code></pre>

<p>that, 以 has the meaning of 用. both of them are correct.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:06:07.143Z
Basically, 以 is there to make a 4 character couplet, favoured by Chinese writers, is that what you are saying?
Gangosa
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2016-08-22T03:10:50.320Z
if you start by "授人", it's yes, you need "以" to make it to 4 characters long. cause "授人魚" is odd / wrong, in literary chinese.
水巷孑蠻
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2016-08-22T03:39:48.763Z
Since 授之魚未若教之漁 is not a poem, I would say it is a correctly constructed phrase in classical writing style.  I would go further and write:  "授魚不如教漁"
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:48:53.107Z
well, the main reason that i use 未若 is: 魚 sounds similar to 如, with such few characters, 3 of them with alike pronunciation is, erhhh, better to avoid this situation. "授魚" & "教漁" is odd, the "之" cannot be omitted here. try again :)
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T05:24:09.510Z
What if I rewrite "授人以鱼不如授人以渔“ as "把鱼授人不如把渔教人“? It is not as poetic, but is it the same or completely wrong? If acceptable, we have 以 is 把。
Gangosa
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2016-08-22T06:24:20.300Z
@gangosa, i edited the answer, it's hard to write long answer in comment :(
水巷孑蠻
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2016-08-22T02:42:31.840Z
2016-08-22T06:23:19.543Z
2016-08-22T06:23:19.543Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>I came across this phrase but I cannot really see the function or point of the 2 '以‘。 Must be old Chinese.</p>

<p>授人以鱼不如授人以渔。 (Translated maybe: "Knowledge is the best charity.")</p>

<p>What are the 2 '以‘ doing here please?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-21T23:03:42.770Z
baike:    It's better to teach a man fishing than to give him fish.   授某人以某事 give/teach so. sth.
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-21T23:19:38.597Z
look up 以 in dictionaries, e.g. ＂汉语水平考试词典＂，［义４］表示给与等意义（用在动词后（used after a verb to indicate "give" etc.):借～｜致～｜六乘～三是十八｜给劳动模范～表扬
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T00:28:47.103Z
谢谢。你的意思是这样‘授。。。以。。。‘，‘授。。。以。。。‘在一起合作？？
Gangosa
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2016-08-22T02:29:57.180Z
？？？ A 不如 B，A not equal to，not as good as，inferior to  B，B would be better than A
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:16:58.040Z
I understand 不如 quite well.  My question is, 'What is 以 doing here? I cannot find 授以 as a word， but you say 以 indicates 'give'. Are you saying ‘授’ and '以‘ are in combination?授人以鱼 is ‘give a man give a fish' is that your meaning? For an old use of 以 I find:文言连词，与“而”用法相同：梦寐～求。
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T04:07:18.490Z
as 2nd comment says, 以 after verbs of giving, providing etc. like 借、致，给 introduces the object that is given to the person, V 某人 以 某事 corresponds to English V with indirect object so./ 某人 and direct object sth./ 某事 （in case of ditransitive E verb), or V sth./某事  to  so./ 某人。Again，

给A以B，give A B ，give B to A，similarly for other verbs of type 给
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T06:26:25.180Z
should have read comment more carefully, answering comment #6 again, no it is not "my meaning" 授 means teach, with direct object 人, 以 introduces the thing that is being taught 渔 fishing, not 鱼 fish, also the examples in comment #2 (copied from dictionary) explain
the use of 以 （perhaps not the English text)
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T11:51:51.213Z
That is why I think the 2 以 may not be the same: 授人以鱼 and 授人以渔， but if we assume 以 is 把： 把鱼授人不如把渔教人。Below I was told 以 is 'with', but that doesn't really work, in English anyway. I get the feeling, 以 is used more for rhythm than meaning. Chinese likes 4 characters.
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T13:23:49.447Z
?that is why? According to baike's translation do the 2 以 not play the same role?   给某人以某事，give so. sth., give sth. to so. 授某人以某事 teach so. sth., teach sth. to so.(授 to teach，to instruct，to award，to give),   以 may correspond to "with",in the case of "provide with, supply" 给（pronounced jǐ)  给以 provide with
user6065
<usage>
What is the function and/or meaning of the 2 '以‘ in this phrase?
# What is the function and/or meaning of the 2 '以‘ in this phrase?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-08-21)

I came across this phrase but I cannot really see the function or point of the 2 '以‘。 Must be old Chinese.

授人以鱼不如授人以渔。 (Translated maybe: "Knowledge is the best charity.")

What are the 2 '以‘ doing here please?

**Tags:** usage

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: baike:    It's better to teach a man fishing than to give him fish.   授某人以某事 give/teach so. sth.  
> **username_1**: look up 以 in dictionaries, e.g. ＂汉语水平考试词典＂，［义４］表示给与等意义（用在动词后（used after a verb to indicate "give" etc.):借～｜致～｜六乘～三是十八｜给劳动模范～表扬  
> **username_0**: 谢谢。你的意思是这样‘授。。。以。。。‘，‘授。。。以。。。‘在一起合作？？  
> **username_1**: ？？？ A 不如 B，A not equal to，not as good as，inferior to  B，B would be better than A  
> **username_0**: I understand 不如 quite well.  My question is, 'What is 以 doing here? I cannot find 授以 as a word， but you say 以 indicates 'give'. Are you saying ‘授’ and '以‘ are in combination?授人以鱼 is ‘give a man give a fish' is that your meaning? For an old use of 以 I find:文言连词，与“而”用法相同：梦寐～求。  
> **username_1**: as 2nd comment says, 以 after verbs of giving, providing etc. like 借、致，给 introduces the object that is given to the person, V 某人 以 某事 corresponds to English V with indirect object so./ 某人 and direct object sth./ 某事 （in case of ditransitive E verb), or V sth./某事  to  so./ 某人。Again，  给A以B，give A B ，give B to A，similarly for other verbs of type 给  
> **username_1**: should have read comment more carefully, answering comment #6 again, no it is not "my meaning" 授 means teach, with direct object 人, 以 introduces the thing that is being taught 渔 fishing, not 鱼 fish, also the examples in comment #2 (copied from dictionary) explain the use of 以 （perhaps not the English text)  
> **username_0**: That is why I think the 2 以 may not be the same: 授人以鱼 and 授人以渔， but if we assume 以 is 把： 把鱼授人不如把渔教人。Below I was told 以 is 'with', but that doesn't really work, in English anyway. I get the feeling, 以 is used more for rhythm than meaning. Chinese likes 4 characters.  
> **username_1**: ?that is why? According to baike's translation do the 2 以 not play the same role?   给某人以某事，give so. sth., give sth. to so. 授某人以某事 teach so. sth., teach sth. to so.(授 to teach，to instruct，to award，to give),   以 may correspond to "with",in the case of "provide with, supply" 给（pronounced jǐ)  给以 provide with  

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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2016-08-22. Score: 2

**以** means "**with**" here

[授人(give people)] [**以** **(with)**] [鱼 (fish)] [不如 (not as good as)] [授人 (teach people)] [**以** **(with)** ] [渔 (lessons of fishing)]

* 授 can mean "to give" or " to teach"
* 鱼 is noun for "fish"
* 渔 is verb for "to fish"

授人以鱼不如授人以渔 = " It is better to teach someone to fish than give someone fish. "

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: '以 is 'with'?? How do you figure that? Where did you get that from?  
> **username_2**: http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/461/  definition 4  
> **username_2**: Example: 待人**以**誠，(treat people **with** sincerity); **以**仁治天下 ( govern the world **with** kindness) ;  **以**文會友 (make friends **with** written works) ; **以**武力反抗 ( resist **with** force)  
> **username_0**: Thanks, that is very interesting! And thanks for the link, I'd never heard of that dictionary! I don't think I would use 'with' each time, but the idea is great! But you would not translate '授人以鱼‘ as 'give person with fish' I think!  
> **username_2**: How about " donate with fish"? similar to " donate with your own money." "with" here basically means " using"  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2016-08-22. Score: 1

i guess the sentence "授人以魚不如授人以漁" is translated, pretending in the style of literary chinese, from the quote
"give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day.
 teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime"

which is derived from anne isabella's writing; here's the link to the investigation:
http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/28/fish/
imo, it's marginally acceptable. the original quote could be translated without 以, e.g.:
授之魚未若教之漁

added another translation:
授之魚﹒苟延而已﹒未若教之漁﹒裨益一生

have fun :)
added info:
What if I rewrite "授人以鱼不如授人以渔“ as "把鱼授人不如把渔教人“? 
It is not as poetic, but is it the same or completely wrong?
If acceptable, we have 以 is 把。

把魚授人 is OK; but 把漁教人, imo, is unacceptable. the least change of it is 
把魚授人不如教人以漁

as i said before in another comment, that with 10 characters only, 3 of them (魚, 如, 漁) have similar pronunciation is not good, better to avoid it.
in literary chinese, "以" has numerous usages. let's use 教人以漁 as an example:
if you keep the sequence, it could be interpreted as 
teaching (教) someone (人) to fish (漁)

以 serves the purpose of make it 4 letters long; however, it's not possible to omit 以, "教人漁" is odd.
next, if you change the sequence to 以漁教人, it could be interpreted as
using (以) fishing techniques (漁) to teach (教) people (人)

that, 以 has the meaning of 用. both of them are correct.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Basically, 以 is there to make a 4 character couplet, favoured by Chinese writers, is that what you are saying?  
> **username_3**: if you start by "授人", it's yes, you need "以" to make it to 4 characters long. cause "授人魚" is odd / wrong, in literary chinese.  
> **username_2**: Since 授之魚未若教之漁 is not a poem, I would say it is a correctly constructed phrase in classical writing style.  I would go further and write:  "授魚不如教漁"  
> **username_3**: well, the main reason that i use 未若 is: 魚 sounds similar to 如, with such few characters, 3 of them with alike pronunciation is, erhhh, better to avoid this situation. "授魚" & "教漁" is odd, the "之" cannot be omitted here. try again :)  
> **username_0**: What if I rewrite "授人以鱼不如授人以渔“ as "把鱼授人不如把渔教人“? It is not as poetic, but is it the same or completely wrong? If acceptable, we have 以 is 把。  
> **username_3**: @gangosa, i edited the answer, it's hard to write long answer in comment :(  

---

