<p>Since final consonants in Mandarin are not as firm as those in, say, Cantonese and English, people who speak Mandarin often relay on vowel quality to distinguish the -n/ng pair.</p>

<p>-in is of course realized as a front vowel /i/, while -ing often has a tint of back vowel, which someone may find similar to Pinyin i+eng. I think it is perfectly acceptable to pronounce jing as if you were pronouncing jeng (jeng is not proper Pinyin).</p>

<p>Also, final consonants are usually blended into the vowels. When a Mandarin speaker tries to stretch a syllable, they will probably produce a prolonged nasal vowel or rhotacized vowel, instead of a prolonged vowel followed a consonant.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T00:17:08.920Z
What is y+eng? I don't understand.
jeffw
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T00:41:55.080Z
@jeffw, I mean a short yi followed by eng. You can try to listen to [CCTV's weather forecast](http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XODg3NjA3MjA=.html). There are a lot of 晴 and 明.
Yang Muye
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T15:42:09.343Z
From this [2004 paper](http://online.sfsu.edu/wenchao/papers/2004_language_purity.pdf):

Recent phonetic studies have shown that in Mandarin syllables with final nasal *n* or *ng*, there is an absence of closure; instead, the vowel is nasalized, and the degree of retraction of the vowel serves to distinguish the two nasal endings.
Michaelyus
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-09T20:27:56.657Z
2014-11-10T00:22:42.597Z
2014-11-10T00:22:42.597Z
Yang Muye
<p>In Standard Chinese those are two different consonants, much the same as <code>'n'</code> in [English] 'kin' and <code>'ng'</code> in 'king'. </p>

<p>In IPA the final -ng is transcribed as <code>[ŋ]</code> while n is <code>[n]</code>.</p>

<p>(By the way I have spent some time in Jiangsu and never noticed that local people would not distinguish these two consonants.)  </p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-08T21:11:14.487Z
It is quite common for people in Jiangsu to not distinguish final -n vs -ng.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-08T21:50:31.553Z
这个问题让一些使用者想起来＂劲＂这个字的两个发音，即使俩都是去声，jìn、jìng 分别对应于其名和形容词的义项。
this question has reminded some users of the two pronunciations of 劲 corresponding respectively to its meaning as noun or adjective.
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-08T22:47:19.747Z
@StumpyJoePete Apparently I must have had contact to people only, who had good command of Standard Mandarin. The lack of proper distinction between sh-/s- (and similar) consonants in the South is more of an issue to me than the finals.
imrek
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-09T01:01:11.653Z
Stumpy Joe Pete is correct. People born before the '80s probably don't have the best command of Mandarin like Beijingers do.
jeffw
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-09T15:30:41.073Z
I come from a Chinese dialect in which trailing nasal sounds literally don't exist. I find the English n and ng  very easy, but the Mandarin counterparts are a disaster. :( To me the nasal part in Mandarin is much less distinguishable than in English, and the vowel part do have different sounds when accompanied with n or ng, in a way I can't explain or imitate...
Wang Dingwei
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T02:19:19.410Z
@Wang Dingwei Which dialect is that, if you don't mind me asking?
neubau
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T03:41:29.250Z
@neubau A subdivision of 晋语 from 吕梁 region.
Wang Dingwei
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T04:41:09.323Z
Is it similar to the variety of 晉語  in this video?  I find it difficult to hear final nasals there, for instance with “今年天長不下雨” at around 0:45.  Link:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZbnSLFIqC4
neubau
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T07:56:02.350Z
@neubau Tell you what, this video is easier for me to understand than the 汾阳 accent! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5XyecKONu8
Wang Dingwei
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T08:10:16.800Z
@neubau The phraseology is largely the same, but the sounds are totally alien, especially the vowels and the tones. In mountainous areas the accent change every 20 kilometers. My hometown is 200 kilometers away from 汾阳, so the accumulated changes can do a lot. The n or ng parts, however, are quite similar.
Wang Dingwei
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-08T20:51:45.697Z
2014-11-09T10:31:38.483Z
2014-11-09T10:31:38.483Z
imrek
<p>Studies have shown that if you grow up in a language environment where speakers do not distinguish between two sounds, your brain will lose the ability to easily perceive the difference between them. A notable example of this phenomenon is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_of_/r/_and_/l/_by_Japanese_speakers" rel="noreferrer">inability for most Japanese speakers to distinguish between <code>r</code> and <code>l</code></a>.</p>

<p>Jiangsu is an area where the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Chinese" rel="noreferrer">Wu Chinese</a> dialects are traditionally spoken. The Wu dialects, on the whole, do not distinguish between final nasal consonants such as <code>n</code> and <code>ng</code>. In many cases, they are <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allophone" rel="noreferrer">allophonic</a>, with the consonant that is actually produced being determined by the vowel that precedes it. This is likely the reason why you currently don't perceive the difference between <code>jin</code> and <code>jing</code>, because the two syllables have the same vowel when spoken according to the standard. However, it is possible to train yourself to perceive them as separate sounds.</p>

<p>Being able to produce both the <code>n</code> and <code>ng</code> sounds is the first step in helping you recognize the difference between them. It may be helpful for you to think of the relationship between the <code>n</code> and <code>ng</code> sounds as being similar to the relationship between the <code>t</code> and <code>k</code> sounds.</p>

<ul>
<li>The <code>n</code> sound is an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_nasal" rel="noreferrer">alveolar nasal</a> and the <code>t</code> sound is an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_stop" rel="noreferrer">alveolar stop</a>, which mean that they are both produced with the tongue touching the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_ridge" rel="noreferrer">alveolar ridge</a>, which is where your teeth meet your gums.</li>
<li>The <code>ng</code> sound is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velar_nasal" rel="noreferrer">velar nasal</a> and the <code>k</code> sound is a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_stop" rel="noreferrer">velar stop</a>. They are both produced with the tongue touching the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_palate" rel="noreferrer">velum</a>, which is located near the back of the roof of your mouth.</li>
</ul>

<p>Alveolar sounds require that your top and bottom teeth be touching; therefore, when you say <code>jin</code>, you should end with your top and bottom teeth touching and the tip of your tongue should be against your gum ridge. However, velar sounds are produced with a slightly open mouth, so in order to pronounce <code>jing</code>, try to end the syllable with your mouth slightly open; your top and bottom teeth should not be touching and the back of your tongue should be against the back of the roof of your mouth.</p>

<p>Once you've practice being able to pronounce the two distinctly, keep repeating it to yourself and you should be able to start training your brain to notice the difference when you hear it in speech.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-07-02T05:02:26.100Z
I know it's been 6.5 years since this answer was posted, but I just stumbled across it again through a random Google search. Since I asked this question, I still have difficulty distinguishing between jin and jing. Is it wrong for the i to sound different at all when saying jin vs. jing? It's difficult for me to produce the keep the same vowel sound between both an open and closed mouth. Nonetheless, I feel a lot more confident being able to make the distinction, both orally and aurally, after reading this answer again. Thank you.
jeffw
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T07:24:30.123Z
2014-11-10T07:35:23.707Z
2014-11-10T07:35:23.707Z
Claw
<p>I speak Chinese natively (我讲中文，普通话) but my pronunciation is borrowed from Jiangsu parents, so I was wondering what is the difference between "jin" (今) and "jing" (京)? Is there any difference in identifying such? Once, somebody remarked "haha, your southern ignorance voids your ability to understand the differences of jin/jing," and so I hope somebody can help me understand this without saying "it's regional" or "it takes practice". If need be, you can respond in simplified Chinese. Thanks! 多谢!</p>

<p><strong>Update</strong>: I pronounce "jin" as "JEEN" and "jing" as "JEENg" but the "g" is so slight I can barely notice it. Is there any way to differentiate them?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-08T21:12:53.837Z
It's true that Jiangsu people often don't distinguish -n vs -ng. But it also seems to be true that you speak English, and English _has this exact distinction_. Can you hear the difference between the English words "pin" and "ping"? How bout "sun" and "sung"?
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-09T00:51:39.997Z
@StumpyJoePete Are you saying that "jin" has a slight "ih" sound while "jing" has a long e sound? I'm sure that's not the case.
jeffw
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-09T00:53:11.950Z
The distinction between the English pin/ping, sun/sung doesn't have to do with the vowels. The consonants at the end of the words sound different. -n sounds different than -ng.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T00:18:07.963Z
pin and ping have different vowel sounds. "pin" has a "ih" while "ping" has a long e sound. It is also possible to confuse sun and sung if the pronunciation is not clear, therefore I don't think the analogy is correct here. Thanks anyway.
jeffw
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-11-10T05:46:51.003Z
I'm talking about the English words "pin" and "ping", not the Mandarin ones. The vowels are identical in both US and UK pronunciation: [pʰɪn] vs [pʰɪŋ]. If you want to understand the difference in the consonants, I think English words provide a great set of words for doing discrimination exercises.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-07-02T05:09:02.650Z
It's been 6.5 years since I first asked this question, and I still don't follow the logic behind this. I think it's important to be aware that having trouble differentiating between n and ng is a cross-language issue, as this answer says: https://chinese.stackexchange.com/a/21624/6733 So claiming that I should be able to understand an English example because I speak English is an argument that does not hold. Also realize that there are non-native speakers of English.
jeffw
<pronunciation>
What is the difference in pronunciation between saying "jin" and "jing"?
# What is the difference in pronunciation between saying "jin" and "jing"?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-11-08)

I speak Chinese natively (我讲中文，普通话) but my pronunciation is borrowed from Jiangsu parents, so I was wondering what is the difference between "jin" (今) and "jing" (京)? Is there any difference in identifying such? Once, somebody remarked "haha, your southern ignorance voids your ability to understand the differences of jin/jing," and so I hope somebody can help me understand this without saying "it's regional" or "it takes practice". If need be, you can respond in simplified Chinese. Thanks! 多谢!

**Update**: I pronounce "jin" as "JEEN" and "jing" as "JEENg" but the "g" is so slight I can barely notice it. Is there any way to differentiate them?

**Tags:** pronunciation

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: It's true that Jiangsu people often don't distinguish -n vs -ng. But it also seems to be true that you speak English, and English _has this exact distinction_. Can you hear the difference between the English words "pin" and "ping"? How bout "sun" and "sung"?  
> **username_0**: @StumpyJoePete Are you saying that "jin" has a slight "ih" sound while "jing" has a long e sound? I'm sure that's not the case.  
> **username_1**: The distinction between the English pin/ping, sun/sung doesn't have to do with the vowels. The consonants at the end of the words sound different. -n sounds different than -ng.  
> **username_0**: pin and ping have different vowel sounds. "pin" has a "ih" while "ping" has a long e sound. It is also possible to confuse sun and sung if the pronunciation is not clear, therefore I don't think the analogy is correct here. Thanks anyway.  
> **username_1**: I'm talking about the English words "pin" and "ping", not the Mandarin ones. The vowels are identical in both US and UK pronunciation: [pʰɪn] vs [pʰɪŋ]. If you want to understand the difference in the consonants, I think English words provide a great set of words for doing discrimination exercises.  
> **username_0**: It's been 6.5 years since I first asked this question, and I still don't follow the logic behind this. I think it's important to be aware that having trouble differentiating between n and ng is a cross-language issue, as this answer says: https://chinese.stackexchange.com/a/21624/6733 So claiming that I should be able to understand an English example because I speak English is an argument that does not hold. Also realize that there are non-native speakers of English.  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_8 on 2014-11-10. Score: 7 | Accepted answer

Studies have shown that if you grow up in a language environment where speakers do not distinguish between two sounds, your brain will lose the ability to easily perceive the difference between them. A notable example of this phenomenon is the [inability for most Japanese speakers to distinguish between `r` and `l`](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception_of_/r/_and_/l/_by_Japanese_speakers).

Jiangsu is an area where the [Wu Chinese](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wu_Chinese) dialects are traditionally spoken. The Wu dialects, on the whole, do not distinguish between final nasal consonants such as `n` and `ng`. In many cases, they are [allophonic](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allophone), with the consonant that is actually produced being determined by the vowel that precedes it. This is likely the reason why you currently don't perceive the difference between `jin` and `jing`, because the two syllables have the same vowel when spoken according to the standard. However, it is possible to train yourself to perceive them as separate sounds.

Being able to produce both the `n` and `ng` sounds is the first step in helping you recognize the difference between them. It may be helpful for you to think of the relationship between the `n` and `ng` sounds as being similar to the relationship between the `t` and `k` sounds.

* The `n` sound is an [alveolar nasal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_nasal) and the `t` sound is an [alveolar stop](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_stop), which mean that they are both produced with the tongue touching the [alveolar ridge](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_ridge), which is where your teeth meet your gums.
* The `ng` sound is a [velar nasal](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velar_nasal) and the `k` sound is a [velar stop](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_velar_stop). They are both produced with the tongue touching the [velum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soft_palate), which is located near the back of the roof of your mouth.

Alveolar sounds require that your top and bottom teeth be touching; therefore, when you say `jin`, you should end with your top and bottom teeth touching and the tip of your tongue should be against your gum ridge. However, velar sounds are produced with a slightly open mouth, so in order to pronounce `jing`, try to end the syllable with your mouth slightly open; your top and bottom teeth should not be touching and the back of your tongue should be against the back of the roof of your mouth.

Once you've practice being able to pronounce the two distinctly, keep repeating it to yourself and you should be able to start training your brain to notice the difference when you hear it in speech.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I know it's been 6.5 years since this answer was posted, but I just stumbled across it again through a random Google search. Since I asked this question, I still have difficulty distinguishing between jin and jing. Is it wrong for the i to sound different at all when saying jin vs. jing? It's difficult for me to produce the keep the same vowel sound between both an open and closed mouth. Nonetheless, I feel a lot more confident being able to make the distinction, both orally and aurally, after reading this answer again. Thank you.  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2014-11-09. Score: 5

Since final consonants in Mandarin are not as firm as those in, say, Cantonese and English, people who speak Mandarin often relay on vowel quality to distinguish the -n/ng pair.

-in is of course realized as a front vowel /i/, while -ing often has a tint of back vowel, which someone may find similar to Pinyin i+eng. I think it is perfectly acceptable to pronounce jing as if you were pronouncing jeng (jeng is not proper Pinyin).

Also, final consonants are usually blended into the vowels. When a Mandarin speaker tries to stretch a syllable, they will probably produce a prolonged nasal vowel or rhotacized vowel, instead of a prolonged vowel followed a consonant.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: What is y+eng? I don't understand.  
> **username_2**: @username_0, I mean a short yi followed by eng. You can try to listen to [CCTV's weather forecast](http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XODg3NjA3MjA=.html). There are a lot of 晴 and 明.  
> **username_3**: From this [2004 paper](http://online.sfsu.edu/wenchao/papers/2004_language_purity.pdf):  Recent phonetic studies have shown that in Mandarin syllables with final nasal *n* or *ng*, there is an absence of closure; instead, the vowel is nasalized, and the degree of retraction of the vowel serves to distinguish the two nasal endings.  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2014-11-08. Score: 3

In Standard Chinese those are two different consonants, much the same as `'n'` in [English] 'kin' and `'ng'` in 'king'.

In IPA the final -ng is transcribed as `[ŋ]` while n is `[n]`.

(By the way I have spent some time in Jiangsu and never noticed that local people would not distinguish these two consonants.)

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: It is quite common for people in Jiangsu to not distinguish final -n vs -ng.  
> **username_5**: 这个问题让一些使用者想起来＂劲＂这个字的两个发音，即使俩都是去声，jìn、jìng 分别对应于其名和形容词的义项。 this question has reminded some users of the two pronunciations of 劲 corresponding respectively to its meaning as noun or adjective.  
> **username_4**: @StumpyJoePete Apparently I must have had contact to people only, who had good command of Standard Mandarin. The lack of proper distinction between sh-/s- (and similar) consonants in the South is more of an issue to me than the finals.  
> **username_0**: username_1 is correct. People born before the '80s probably don't have the best command of Mandarin like Beijingers do.  
> **username_6**: I come from a Chinese dialect in which trailing nasal sounds literally don't exist. I find the English n and ng  very easy, but the Mandarin counterparts are a disaster. :( To me the nasal part in Mandarin is much less distinguishable than in English, and the vowel part do have different sounds when accompanied with n or ng, in a way I can't explain or imitate...  
> **username_7**: @username_6 Which dialect is that, if you don't mind me asking?  
> **username_6**: @username_7 A subdivision of 晋语 from 吕梁 region.  
> **username_7**: Is it similar to the variety of 晉語  in this video?  I find it difficult to hear final nasals there, for instance with “今年天長不下雨” at around 0:45.  Link:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZbnSLFIqC4  
> **username_6**: @username_7 Tell you what, this video is easier for me to understand than the 汾阳 accent! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5XyecKONu8  
> **username_6**: @username_7 The phraseology is largely the same, but the sounds are totally alien, especially the vowels and the tones. In mountainous areas the accent change every 20 kilometers. My hometown is 200 kilometers away from 汾阳, so the accumulated changes can do a lot. The n or ng parts, however, are quite similar.  

---

