<p>well, lost in translation lah :) </p>

<p>"以文會友", i would suggest: by means of (以) article | essay | writings (文), to interact with (會) people (友)</p>

<p>以暴易暴, i would suggest:</p>

<p>using (以) violence (暴) to cope with | against (易) violence (暴)</p>

<p>then, the term "文以載道" is tricky, it's derived from 文辭第二十八章 of 周元公集, by 周敦頤 of 宋 dynasty:</p>

<pre><code>文所以載道﹒猶車所以載物﹒故為車者﹒必飾其輪轅﹒
為文者﹒必善其詞說﹒皆欲人之愛而用之﹒然我飾之而人不用﹒
則猶為虛飾而無益於實況﹒不載物之車﹒不載道之文﹒雖美其飾﹒亦何所為乎
</code></pre>

<p><a href="https://archive.org/details/06053510.cn" rel="nofollow noreferrer">周元公集</a>, 卷一, page 69-72</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/vbCUK.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/vbCUK.png" alt="p70"></a></p>

<p>in this article, "文以載道" is roughly: "writings ought to convey virtue"</p>

<p>it's not a word by word translation, but to deliver the original meaning in literary chinese.</p>

<p>about "以文載道", i would say that it loses the emphasis of what a writing (文) should be.</p>

<p>last, if possible, translate from the original text. imo, the b**** is, well, unreliable.</p>

<p>edited, more info.</p>

<p><a href="http://ctext.org/chun-qiu-zuo-zhuan/zhao-gong-yuan-nian/zh" rel="nofollow noreferrer">左傳﹒昭公元年</a></p>

<pre><code>君子有四時﹒朝以聽政﹒晝以訪問﹒夕以脩令﹒夜以安身
</code></pre>

<p>is roughly:</p>

<pre><code>morning (朝) is for (以) administrative work (聽政)﹒
afternoon (晝) is for (以) interview (訪問)﹒
evening (夕) is for (以) order amendment (脩令)﹒
night (夜) is for (以) reposing (安身)
</code></pre>

<p>that, i would say ^.以..$ is a fixed structure, which emphasises the 1st character (the one before "以")</p>

<p>so, changing to "以朝聽政﹒以晝訪問﹒以夕脩令﹒以夜安身", imo, is inappropriate in the above text.</p>

<p>edited again.</p>

<p>last, the term "以文會友" is from <a href="http://ctext.org/analects/yan-yuan" rel="nofollow noreferrer">論語﹒顏淵</a></p>

<pre><code>曾子曰﹒君子以文會友﹒以友輔仁
</code></pre>

<p>so, the "^以...$" structure is roughly "using / by means of" (以 ) + the 2nd character, to serve the purpose of 3rd, 4th characters.</p>

<p>again, changing to "文以會友﹒友以輔仁" is inappropriate in the above text.</p>

<p>have fun :)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-17T16:25:58.330Z
2016-07-17T19:04:19.250Z
2016-07-17T19:04:19.250Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>以 is one of the most confusing words in Chinese. Texts that really challenge me are usually full of it. Today I saw something confusing again:</p>
<p>I encountered the phrase 文以載道。The document claims it means &quot;transport the Way through literature&quot;. I know some similar phrases, but the placement of 以 differs. I add some non idiomatic English translations, to explain my idea:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>以文會友 ： befriend through refined interests</p>
<p>以誠相待 : interact with each other through sincerity</p>
<p>以暴易暴 : replace tyranny through tyranny</p>
<p>以備不虞: through preparation be at ease</p>
<p>以詞害意: through words harm the meaning</p>
</blockquote>
<p>From all these I expected the phrase to be 以文載道。What am I overlooking? I know there might be many things, since Chinese is the pinnacle of versatility - at least among the languages I speak!</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-17T15:43:46.217Z
jukuu: 文以载道:Writings are for conveying truth, also see baike.baidu for origin
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-17T16:04:13.443Z
I don't think all the cases of 以 listed above can be translated as "through". The last but second: 以=in order to. The last one:以=because of
Huang
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-17T16:56:28.880Z
@Huang I trust your expertise. I just wanted to show some commonality. Even with your correction, they still appear pretty similar. But the other sentence is different and it turned out to carry a very distinct meaning.
Ludi
<grammar><meaning><idioms><chengyu>
Why 文以載道 but 以文會友?
# Why 文以載道 but 以文會友?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-07-17)

以 is one of the most confusing words in Chinese. Texts that really challenge me are usually full of it. Today I saw something confusing again:

I encountered the phrase 文以載道。The document claims it means "transport the Way through literature". I know some similar phrases, but the placement of 以 differs. I add some non idiomatic English translations, to explain my idea:

> 以文會友 ： befriend through refined interests
>
> 以誠相待 : interact with each other through sincerity
>
> 以暴易暴 : replace tyranny through tyranny
>
> 以備不虞: through preparation be at ease
>
> 以詞害意: through words harm the meaning

From all these I expected the phrase to be 以文載道。What am I overlooking? I know there might be many things, since Chinese is the pinnacle of versatility - at least among the languages I speak!

**Tags:** grammar, meaning, idioms, chengyu

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: jukuu: 文以载道:Writings are for conveying truth, also see baike.baidu for origin  
> **username_2**: I don't think all the cases of 以 listed above can be translated as "through". The last but second: 以=in order to. The last one:以=because of  
> **username_0**: @username_2 I trust your expertise. I just wanted to show some commonality. Even with your correction, they still appear pretty similar. But the other sentence is different and it turned out to carry a very distinct meaning.  

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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2016-07-17. Score: 4

well, lost in translation lah :) 
"以文會友", i would suggest: by means of (以) article | essay | writings (文), to interact with (會) people (友)
以暴易暴, i would suggest:
using (以) violence (暴) to cope with | against (易) violence (暴)
then, the term "文以載道" is tricky, it's derived from 文辭第二十八章 of 周元公集, by 周敦頤 of 宋 dynasty:
文所以載道﹒猶車所以載物﹒故為車者﹒必飾其輪轅﹒
為文者﹒必善其詞說﹒皆欲人之愛而用之﹒然我飾之而人不用﹒
則猶為虛飾而無益於實況﹒不載物之車﹒不載道之文﹒雖美其飾﹒亦何所為乎

周元公集, 卷一, page 69-72

in this article, "文以載道" is roughly: "writings ought to convey virtue"
it's not a word by word translation, but to deliver the original meaning in literary chinese.
about "以文載道", i would say that it loses the emphasis of what a writing (文) should be.
last, if possible, translate from the original text. imo, the b**** is, well, unreliable.
edited, more info.
左傳﹒昭公元年
君子有四時﹒朝以聽政﹒晝以訪問﹒夕以脩令﹒夜以安身

is roughly:
morning (朝) is for (以) administrative work (聽政)﹒
afternoon (晝) is for (以) interview (訪問)﹒
evening (夕) is for (以) order amendment (脩令)﹒
night (夜) is for (以) reposing (安身)

that, i would say ^.以..$ is a fixed structure, which emphasises the 1st character (the one before "以")
so, changing to "以朝聽政﹒以晝訪問﹒以夕脩令﹒以夜安身", imo, is inappropriate in the above text.
edited again.
last, the term "以文會友" is from 論語﹒顏淵
曾子曰﹒君子以文會友﹒以友輔仁

so, the "^以...$" structure is roughly "using / by means of" (以 ) + the 2nd character, to serve the purpose of 3rd, 4th characters.
again, changing to "文以會友﹒友以輔仁" is inappropriate in the above text.
have fun :)


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