<p>“这毛衣” works, but it means "this sweater"; while "这件毛衣” means "this /<em>measurement word in English for 件</em>/ of sweater"; they are different grammatically.
Just like: these shoes Vs. this pair of shoes</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-08T14:27:05.097Z
2013-01-08T14:27:05.097Z
Pip
<p>In Mandarin, especially Northern China dialects, measure words can be omitted when</p>
<ol>
<li>It is following a demonstrative pronoun (e.g. 这, 那), AND</li>
<li>The numeral is 1 (one), AND</li>
<li>It is not a collective measure word （e.g. 些, 群).</li>
</ol>
<p>The grammatical role of the phrase does not change. E.g.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>这一件毛衣 = 这件毛衣 = 这毛衣</p>
<p>这一些毛衣 = 这些毛衣 collective measure word 些 cannot be omitted.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-20T21:48:38.987Z
Does it also have a formal touch without the measure word?
Enrico Brasil
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-23T03:35:10.903Z
@EnricoBrasil No it's actually less formal without measure word.
NS.X.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T02:55:28.617Z
I have heard of 这个苹果 and 这粒苹果, but never encounter 这只苹果 when referring to an apple. Is it also part of Northern dialects?
杨以轩
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T07:27:02.577Z
@QuestionOverflow no it's not. Actually I heard this usage from people from the south. Searching 一只苹果 online there are some hits suggesting the usage does exist though may not be correct.
NS.X.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T16:14:42.193Z
@QuestionOverflow As a native speaker from South China, I'd like to say I've never heard of "这粒苹果", 粒 refers to something very small(a pill, a grain of rice, etc) in general.
Huang
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T16:16:50.537Z
@NS.X. Actually, you can use 这件苹果 in real life where 件 means "a box or package", so 这件苹果 means “this box of apples". Can you update your answer?
Huang
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T16:20:42.463Z
@QuestionOverflow 粒 gives a feeling of an accent from HongKong. Where did you hear it?
Huang
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T20:11:30.260Z
@Huang I've removed the comment about measure word for an apple from the answer. In Beijing 这件苹果 sounds absolutely weird and people wouldn't think it's a box of apple...
NS.X.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-09T21:52:46.090Z
I would think 这粒苹果 would be a little chunk of apple. Like if an apple exploded all over the place, you would go around picking up the 苹果, one 粒 by 粒.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-10T04:41:05.310Z
@Huang, I hear it quite often in Singapore. A Google search on "这粒苹果" produces 212,000 results. There are people using it in Malaysia and Taiwan too though I am not too sure about its appropriateness. I am quite surprise that "这只苹果" produces even more result because I thought 只 is a 量詞 for animals or human parts. Both 粒 and 颗 refers to small objects, and 颗 is for more rounded objects. As for how small is considered small, this is quite subjective. Maybe there isn't a suitable 量詞 for 苹果 causing people to use different versions. I think the safest is still to stick with 个 :)
杨以轩
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-08T20:17:04.237Z
2016-04-12T20:28:17.207Z
2020-06-17T09:50:11.587Z
NS.X.
<p>I've heard the sentence <code>这毛衣</code>, (so without measure word), but my chinese manual always use a measure word after <code>这</code>:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>这件毛衣</p>
  
  <p>这件苹果</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Is the measure word optionnal in after <code>这</code> ?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-08T17:25:19.103Z
`件` is a Unit/classifier/量詞. Sometimes it is optional, sometimes not. I have a small section about that in my other answer [here](http://chinese.stackexchange.com/a/2615/2263).
John Siu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-08T20:42:47.320Z
这件苹果?? Unless you are somehow referring to a brand name?
deutschZuid
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-11T07:50:58.520Z
@JamesJiao - Even if it is a brand name you can not use `件` there.
Derek 朕會功夫
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-01-11T07:51:51.640Z
@BAK - `件` is just like in English, where you say `a glass of water`, `a loaf of bread`. You can not just say `I want a water` or `I ate a bread`, right? Same in Chinese. Sometimes you need `件/個/條`, but sometimes you don't.
Derek 朕會功夫
<grammar>
Is the measure word optional in 这件毛衣?
# Is the measure word optional in 这件毛衣?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2013-01-08)

I've heard the sentence `这毛衣`, (so without measure word), but my chinese manual always use a measure word after `这`:

> 这件毛衣
>
> 这件苹果

Is the measure word optionnal in after `这` ?

**Tags:** grammar

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: `件` is a Unit/classifier/量詞. Sometimes it is optional, sometimes not. I have a small section about that in my other answer [here](http://chinese.stackexchange.com/a/2615/2263).  
> **username_2**: 这件苹果?? Unless you are somehow referring to a brand name?  
> **username_3**: @JamesJiao - Even if it is a brand name you can not use `件` there.  
> **username_3**: @username_0 - `件` is just like in English, where you say `a glass of water`, `a loaf of bread`. You can not just say `I want a water` or `I ate a bread`, right? Same in Chinese. Sometimes you need `件/個/條`, but sometimes you don't.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_5 on 2013-01-08. Score: 9 | Accepted answer

In Mandarin, especially Northern China dialects, measure words can be omitted when

1. It is following a demonstrative pronoun (e.g. 这, 那), AND
2. The numeral is 1 (one), AND
3. It is not a collective measure word （e.g. 些, 群).

The grammatical role of the phrase does not change. E.g.

> 这一件毛衣 = 这件毛衣 = 这毛衣
>
> 这一些毛衣 = 这些毛衣 collective measure word 些 cannot be omitted.

> **Comments:**
> **username_7**: I have heard of 这个苹果 and 这粒苹果, but never encounter 这只苹果 when referring to an apple. Is it also part of Northern dialects?  
> **username_5**: @QuestionOverflow no it's not. Actually I heard this usage from people from the south. Searching 一只苹果 online there are some hits suggesting the usage does exist though may not be correct.  
> **username_8**: @QuestionOverflow As a native speaker from South China, I'd like to say I've never heard of "这粒苹果", 粒 refers to something very small(a pill, a grain of rice, etc) in general.  
> **username_8**: @username_5 Actually, you can use 这件苹果 in real life where 件 means "a box or package", so 这件苹果 means “this box of apples". Can you update your answer?  
> **username_8**: @QuestionOverflow 粒 gives a feeling of an accent from HongKong. Where did you hear it?  
> **username_5**: @username_8 I've removed the comment about measure word for an apple from the answer. In Beijing 这件苹果 sounds absolutely weird and people wouldn't think it's a box of apple...  
> **username_9**: I would think 这粒苹果 would be a little chunk of apple. Like if an apple exploded all over the place, you would go around picking up the 苹果, one 粒 by 粒.  
> **username_7**: @username_8, I hear it quite often in Singapore. A Google search on "这粒苹果" produces 212,000 results. There are people using it in Malaysia and Taiwan too though I am not too sure about its appropriateness. I am quite surprise that "这只苹果" produces even more result because I thought 只 is a 量詞 for animals or human parts. Both 粒 and 颗 refers to small objects, and 颗 is for more rounded objects. As for how small is considered small, this is quite subjective. Maybe there isn't a suitable 量詞 for 苹果 causing people to use different versions. I think the safest is still to stick with 个 :)  
> **username_6**: Does it also have a formal touch without the measure word?  
> **username_5**: @EnricoBrasil No it's actually less formal without measure word.  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2013-01-08. Score: 0

“这毛衣” works, but it means "this sweater"; while "这件毛衣” means "this /*measurement word in English for 件*/ of sweater"; they are different grammatically.
Just like: these shoes Vs. this pair of shoes


---

