<p>In ancient Chinese, 以上 and 以下 are inclusive without a doubt. Why? Just because everyone use them in the same way and exceptions are few to none. Example:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><b>三品以下</b>用金宝，<b>二品以上</b>用玉宝。（元史•选举志三）</p>
<p>七月，定进马迁赏格，每甲马<b>一匹或二匹以上</b>，迁赏有差。（金史•列传
第五十七）</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In modern Chinese, they are supposed to inherit the ancient usage, however sometimes people try to be accurate by adding explanatory words which actually diluted the original meaning. For example the following forms are quite common in modern Chinese:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>目前，浙江省<b>县及县以下</b>考生占全省考生总数的 68%。</p>
<p>设立公司应有<b>三个以上（含）</b>发起人。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In law space, the usage is still clearly defined to be inclusive. Example:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>本法所称以上、以下、以内，包括本数。（1997 年 3 月 14 日修订《中华
人民共和国刑法》第九十九条）</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/china_law_prof_blog/files/YiShangYiXia.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">This reference</a> has a lot of examples to demonstrate the ancient and modern usages. (The author considered modern new usages wrong.)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-05-12T04:57:11.273Z
What about "已上" "已下" etc.? Are they not inclusive? Unfortunately, 已 and 以 both have the same pronunciation no matter now or in ancient times... Aren't they confusing?
Mike Manilone
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-05-12T06:52:49.543Z
I am sure there is no such word as 已上/已下 in modern Chinese and almost sure not in ancient Chinese either. Google search resulted in some Japanese usages which I have no knowledge of. The only word that has both 以X and 已X form in Chinese is 已来, which is inclusive since it's just an obscure alternative for 以来. See http://www.zdic.net/cd/ci/3/ZdicE5ZdicB7ZdicB2121869.htm
NS.X.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-05-12T08:03:21.680Z
古文觀止's catalog has them, like 「已上韓愈」
Mike Manilone
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-05-25T19:04:26.810Z
@MikeManilone: In ancient Chinese, 通假 (interchangeable characters) is common. In the seal characters, there was no 已 but 以. However, some shape in seal/Bronze characters of 以 was very similar to 已, so, 已 appeared as a different character later in ancient China. Now, in modern Chinese, they are distinct in meaning as you know.
Stan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-05-11T18:45:05.513Z
2013-05-11T18:45:05.513Z
2020-06-17T09:50:11.587Z
NS.X.
<p>Check out the references below, we see that Japanese has the same problem as Chinese: Does "以X" include the word itself, eg. is 1 included in "1以上"?</p>

<p>As what I have seen, in old Chinese books, there are "以" and "已" expressing the same(?) as in 以上/已上 以下/已下. Even 史記 itself used both (according to <a href="http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8F%B2%E8%A8%98#.E8.A1.A8" rel="nofollow noreferrer">its "tables"</a>, confusingly, the Chinese Wikipedia page used "以" instead).</p>

<p>Answers come from the references simply gave us the answer and didn't say why, that's the reason why I come here for an authoritative answer.</p>

<p>References:</p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/9671/is-%E4%BB%A5%E9%99%8D-inclusive">https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/9671/is-%E4%BB%A5%E9%99%8D-inclusive</a></li>
<li><a href="https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/1765/do-%E4%BB%A5%E4%B8%8A-and-%E4%BB%A5%E4%B8%8B-include-the-number-preceding-them">https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/1765/do-%E4%BB%A5%E4%B8%8A-and-%E4%BB%A5%E4%B8%8B-include-the-number-preceding-them</a></li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-05-25T19:19:18.767Z
For the question about "x以上/下", it's actually ambiguous whether it include x or not. Some pedant assists that 以上 should be **be greater than or equal to**; however, in daily life 以上 doesn't guarantee meaning so. Something interesting: in China's criminal law, it specially notes that the terminology 以上 used in the law text should be **be greater than or equal to**---now you can see how confused it is in everyday Chinese.
Stan
<word-choice><classical-chinese>
Included or Not Included As In "以後" "以來", etc
# Included or Not Included As In "以後" "以來", etc

(Asked by: username_0 on 2013-05-11)

Check out the references below, we see that Japanese has the same problem as Chinese: Does "以X" include the word itself, eg. is 1 included in "1以上"?

As what I have seen, in old Chinese books, there are "以" and "已" expressing the same(?) as in 以上/已上 以下/已下. Even 史記 itself used both (according to [its "tables"](http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8F%B2%E8%A8%98#.E8.A1.A8), confusingly, the Chinese Wikipedia page used "以" instead).

Answers come from the references simply gave us the answer and didn't say why, that's the reason why I come here for an authoritative answer.

References:

* <https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/9671/is-%E4%BB%A5%E9%99%8D-inclusive>
* <https://japanese.stackexchange.com/questions/1765/do-%E4%BB%A5%E4%B8%8A-and-%E4%BB%A5%E4%B8%8B-include-the-number-preceding-them>

**Tags:** word-choice, classical-chinese

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: For the question about "x以上/下", it's actually ambiguous whether it include x or not. Some pedant assists that 以上 should be **be greater than or equal to**; however, in daily life 以上 doesn't guarantee meaning so. Something interesting: in China's criminal law, it specially notes that the terminology 以上 used in the law text should be **be greater than or equal to**---now you can see how confused it is in everyday Chinese.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2013-05-11. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

In ancient Chinese, 以上 and 以下 are inclusive without a doubt. Why? Just because everyone use them in the same way and exceptions are few to none. Example:

> **三品以下**用金宝，**二品以上**用玉宝。（元史•选举志三）
>
> 七月，定进马迁赏格，每甲马**一匹或二匹以上**，迁赏有差。（金史•列传
> 第五十七）

In modern Chinese, they are supposed to inherit the ancient usage, however sometimes people try to be accurate by adding explanatory words which actually diluted the original meaning. For example the following forms are quite common in modern Chinese:

> 目前，浙江省**县及县以下**考生占全省考生总数的 68%。
>
> 设立公司应有**三个以上（含）**发起人。

In law space, the usage is still clearly defined to be inclusive. Example:

> 本法所称以上、以下、以内，包括本数。（1997 年 3 月 14 日修订《中华
> 人民共和国刑法》第九十九条）

[This reference](http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/china_law_prof_blog/files/YiShangYiXia.pdf) has a lot of examples to demonstrate the ancient and modern usages. (The author considered modern new usages wrong.)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: What about "已上" "已下" etc.? Are they not inclusive? Unfortunately, 已 and 以 both have the same pronunciation no matter now or in ancient times... Aren't they confusing?  
> **username_2**: I am sure there is no such word as 已上/已下 in modern Chinese and almost sure not in ancient Chinese either. Google search resulted in some Japanese usages which I have no knowledge of. The only word that has both 以X and 已X form in Chinese is 已来, which is inclusive since it's just an obscure alternative for 以来. See http://www.zdic.net/cd/ci/3/ZdicE5ZdicB7ZdicB2121869.htm  
> **username_0**: 古文觀止's catalog has them, like 「已上韓愈」  
> **username_1**: @MikeManilone: In ancient Chinese, 通假 (interchangeable characters) is common. In the seal characters, there was no 已 but 以. However, some shape in seal/Bronze characters of 以 was very similar to 已, so, 已 appeared as a different character later in ancient China. Now, in modern Chinese, they are distinct in meaning as you know.  

---

