<p>This is something that also always confuses me when reading pinyin... In zhuyin, though, the zh for zhong is ㄓ, while the ch in Chong is ㄔ, ㄓ is pronounced more like the English "dr" sound, and ㄔ is pronounced more like the English "tr" sound. Also, the qi sound is ㄑ,which is pronounced like the English "chi" sound, and the xi sound is ㄒ, which is pronounced like the English "she" sound. </p>

<p>Hope this helps!</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-07-23T16:41:42.830Z
Where are you from? The comparisons with dr and tr make sense, especially if you pronounce them retroflex.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-07-23T16:50:19.450Z
I'm Taiwanese American, my family moved here to study in America, which is where I was born, ive been to Taipei a few times to visit family and it's inspired me to learn traditional Chinese, however, it seems like no one really uses zhuyin anymore... Oh, Sorry, got a bit sidetracked...
Justin
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-07-23T23:46:21.880Z
It's a dated form of transcription scheme that has largely been superceded by pinyin, even in Taiwan. I think this is largely due to pinyin being written in the Latin alphabet, which is easier to learn and type in this day and age.
deutschZuid
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-07-25T15:47:09.260Z
Most folks I know still use zhuyin, but perhaps we're old fashioned. It makes a whole lot more sense to me than pinyin ever did. While the approach is not the most orthodox I've seen, the comparison to "dr" and "tr" actually make sense to me if I run through it mehself.
Grace Note
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-11-09T09:07:42.977Z
I find your descriptions of `zh` and `ch` very helpful, but not those for `qi` and `xi`. I find the English `sh` can be confused with both the Pinyin `sh` and `x`, while the English `ch` can be confused with both the Pinyin `ch` and `q`. But `q` can sound like `ts` as well as like `ch` ...
hippietrail
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-07-23T16:23:03.697Z
2013-07-23T16:23:03.697Z
Justin
<p>Pronunciation differences between pinyin 'zh' and 'ch' are same as differences between 'ji' and 'qi', 'ge' and 'ke' ,'de' and 'te'; same as 't' in 'stop' and 't' in top.</p>

<p>Pronunciation differences between pinyin 'qi' and 'xi' are same as differences between 'ch' and 'sh' , 'c' and 's'; same as 'ch' in 'choose' and 'tion' in 'mention'.</p>

<p>And you may use Praat (<a href="http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/" rel="nofollow">http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/</a>) to check if you pronounce them as Chinese.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-07-23T03:44:52.817Z
She's French, she pronounces t's like Mandarin d's.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-07-23T03:55:48.663Z
@StumpyJoePete,thank you ,I have just known she is French.
XL _At_Here_There
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-07-23T03:41:41.187Z
2013-11-09T19:34:42.717Z
2013-11-09T19:34:42.717Z
XL _At_Here_There
<p>The difference between <code>zh</code> and <code>ch</code> has nothing to do with the position of the tongue: these two are pronounced with the tongue in the same position; the difference is aspiration -- <code>ch</code> is aspirated while <code>zh</code> is not. Both are retroflex affricates.</p>

<p><code>x</code> and <code>q</code> have less in common -- actually <code>q</code> and <code>ch</code> are much closer to an untrained ear, as they're both aspirated affricates -- the only difference being the position of the tongue, <code>ch</code> being a retroflex, and <code>q</code> an alveo-palatal. <code>x</code> on the other hand is not aspirated, and a fricative. Actually <code>x</code> is close to the German Ich-laut (except <code>ch</code> in Ich is a palatal rather than an alveo-palatal).</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-09-13T12:15:36.853Z
About the two consonants being aspirated... do you really mean **breathing air IN** while pronuncing ?.
Stephane Rolland
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-09-13T12:48:00.163Z
@StephaneRolland: Air should be coming out of your mouth. When you hold your hand before you mouth you should feel the difference.
BertR
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-09-13T12:51:09.397Z
[Aspirated consonant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirated_consonant)
dda
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-11-10T05:36:20.903Z
@StephaneRolland， when you pronounce `ch`, in the first 0.5s, you will not feel the vibrating of your throat. The air comes out from your mouth, then `ch` and `zh` are the same at their 尾音 part
shuangwhywhy
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-11-10T05:41:15.777Z
@StephaneRolland, you know pillow talk, aspiration is like that.
shuangwhywhy
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-09-13T11:42:26.233Z
2012-09-13T11:42:26.233Z
dda
<p>Although <a href="https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/1581/is-it-common-for-zh-j-ch-q-and-sh-x-to-be-merged">this question</a> states that these sounds can be often mixed (though mainly in dialtects...)</p>

<p>Do you know where I could find a detailed description of position and movement of the tongue 
for these consonants - so as to learn how to make it sound properly.</p>

<p>For example I have <em>very much difficutly</em> making a different sound between <code>中 zhong1</code> and <code>chong2 虫</code>... because I don't know how to make them sound different. I feel like the zh should be a little more stronger, exploding. But on several audio excerpts, the ch is also strong.</p>

<p>Idem, I would say that x is a little more windy, and q has a soft and really short 'k' at the beginning of the beginning of the sound... but that's not precise enough to make it sound right all the time.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-09-13T15:46:50.973Z
Stephane, where are you from? Your native language probably has a big influence on your perception of zh and ch as being similar.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-09-13T16:17:34.723Z
I am from France. Not many words pronounced with this phonem in french: most of foreign origin: Tchécolovaquie, Apparatchik...
Stephane Rolland
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-09-13T16:26:34.420Z
Stop consonants and aspirates can be divided into three kinds: voiced, unvoiced-unaspirated, and unvoiced-aspirated. (Aspirated consonants have a puff of air as they are released). For example, [b], [p], and [pʰ]. In French, you have "b"=[b] and "p"=[p]. In English, it's "b"=[b] and "p"=[pʰ]. (English "p" is __not__ the same as French "p") In Mandarin, it's "b"=[p] and "p"=[pʰ]. So... your problem is that French _doesn't have_ aspirated consonants. (And Mandarin doesn't have any voiced stops.) So, if you need something to imitate, try the unvoiced stops in English: "t"=[tʰ] "ch"=[tʃʰ] etc.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-07-23T16:00:29.887Z
http://learnchineseabc.com/chinese-pinyin-initials.htm has some step by step animations
tao
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-12-14T22:12:48.557Z
@StumpyJoePete in fact you are missing "voiced-aspirated" (or breathy voiced) consonants, which are absent in Chinese but present e.g. in Hindi. Just to be complete :). As for English vs. French, that is true word-initially, but the aspiration is lost in the body of words, making English p = French p.
MickG
<pronunciation>
Pronunciation differences between pinyin 'zh' and 'ch', and between 'qi' and 'xi'
# Pronunciation differences between pinyin 'zh' and 'ch', and between 'qi' and 'xi'

(Asked by: username_0 on 2012-09-13)

Although [this question](https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/1581/is-it-common-for-zh-j-ch-q-and-sh-x-to-be-merged) states that these sounds can be often mixed (though mainly in dialtects...)

Do you know where I could find a detailed description of position and movement of the tongue
for these consonants - so as to learn how to make it sound properly.

For example I have *very much difficutly* making a different sound between `中 zhong1` and `chong2 虫`... because I don't know how to make them sound different. I feel like the zh should be a little more stronger, exploding. But on several audio excerpts, the ch is also strong.

Idem, I would say that x is a little more windy, and q has a soft and really short 'k' at the beginning of the beginning of the sound... but that's not precise enough to make it sound right all the time.

**Tags:** pronunciation

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: username_0, where are you from? Your native language probably has a big influence on your perception of zh and ch as being similar.  
> **username_0**: I am from France. Not many words pronounced with this phonem in french: most of foreign origin: Tchécolovaquie, Apparatchik...  
> **username_1**: Stop consonants and aspirates can be divided into three kinds: voiced, unvoiced-unaspirated, and unvoiced-aspirated. (Aspirated consonants have a puff of air as they are released). For example, [b], [p], and [pʰ]. In French, you have "b"=[b] and "p"=[p]. In English, it's "b"=[b] and "p"=[pʰ]. (English "p" is __not__ the same as French "p") In Mandarin, it's "b"=[p] and "p"=[pʰ]. So... your problem is that French _doesn't have_ aspirated consonants. (And Mandarin doesn't have any voiced stops.) So, if you need something to imitate, try the unvoiced stops in English: "t"=[tʰ] "ch"=[tʃʰ] etc.  
> **username_2**: http://learnchineseabc.com/chinese-pinyin-initials.htm has some step by step animations  
> **username_3**: @username_1 in fact you are missing "voiced-aspirated" (or breathy voiced) consonants, which are absent in Chinese but present e.g. in Hindi. Just to be complete :). As for English vs. French, that is true word-initially, but the aspiration is lost in the body of words, making English p = French p.  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_9 on 2012-09-13. Score: 5 | Accepted answer

The difference between `zh` and `ch` has nothing to do with the position of the tongue: these two are pronounced with the tongue in the same position; the difference is aspiration -- `ch` is aspirated while `zh` is not. Both are retroflex affricates.

`x` and `q` have less in common -- actually `q` and `ch` are much closer to an untrained ear, as they're both aspirated affricates -- the only difference being the position of the tongue, `ch` being a retroflex, and `q` an alveo-palatal. `x` on the other hand is not aspirated, and a fricative. Actually `x` is close to the German Ich-laut (except `ch` in Ich is a palatal rather than an alveo-palatal).

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: About the two consonants being aspirated... do you really mean **breathing air IN** while pronuncing ?.  
> **username_10**: @username_0: Air should be coming out of your mouth. When you hold your hand before you mouth you should feel the difference.  
> **username_9**: [Aspirated consonant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspirated_consonant)  
> **username_11**: @username_0， when you pronounce `ch`, in the first 0.5s, you will not feel the vibrating of your throat. The air comes out from your mouth, then `ch` and `zh` are the same at their 尾音 part  
> **username_11**: @username_0, you know pillow talk, aspiration is like that.  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2013-07-23. Score: 1

This is something that also always confuses me when reading pinyin... In zhuyin, though, the zh for zhong is ㄓ, while the ch in Chong is ㄔ, ㄓ is pronounced more like the English "dr" sound, and ㄔ is pronounced more like the English "tr" sound. Also, the qi sound is ㄑ,which is pronounced like the English "chi" sound, and the xi sound is ㄒ, which is pronounced like the English "she" sound.

Hope this helps!

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Where are you from? The comparisons with dr and tr make sense, especially if you pronounce them retroflex.  
> **username_4**: I'm Taiwanese American, my family moved here to study in America, which is where I was born, ive been to Taipei a few times to visit family and it's inspired me to learn traditional Chinese, however, it seems like no one really uses zhuyin anymore... Oh, Sorry, got a bit sidetracked...  
> **username_5**: It's a dated form of transcription scheme that has largely been superceded by pinyin, even in Taiwan. I think this is largely due to pinyin being written in the Latin alphabet, which is easier to learn and type in this day and age.  
> **username_6**: Most folks I know still use zhuyin, but perhaps we're old fashioned. It makes a whole lot more sense to me than pinyin ever did. While the approach is not the most orthodox I've seen, the comparison to "dr" and "tr" actually make sense to me if I run through it mehself.  
> **username_7**: I find your descriptions of `zh` and `ch` very helpful, but not those for `qi` and `xi`. I find the English `sh` can be confused with both the Pinyin `sh` and `x`, while the English `ch` can be confused with both the Pinyin `ch` and `q`. But `q` can sound like `ts` as well as like `ch` ...  

---

### Answer by username_8 on 2013-07-23. Score: 1

Pronunciation differences between pinyin 'zh' and 'ch' are same as differences between 'ji' and 'qi', 'ge' and 'ke' ,'de' and 'te'; same as 't' in 'stop' and 't' in top.

Pronunciation differences between pinyin 'qi' and 'xi' are same as differences between 'ch' and 'sh' , 'c' and 's'; same as 'ch' in 'choose' and 'tion' in 'mention'.

And you may use Praat (<http://www.fon.hum.uva.nl/praat/>) to check if you pronounce them as Chinese.

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: She's French, she pronounces t's like Mandarin d's.  
> **username_8**: @username_1,thank you ,I have just known she is French.  

---

