<p>I am tinkering with learning Chinese and am messing around with the <a href="https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Translation:Tao_Te_Ching" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Tao Te Ching</a>. The first sentence in Chinese is this:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>道可道，非恆道；</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The way this is typically translated is this:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>The Dao that can be told, is not the eternal Dao;</p>
</blockquote>

<p>If I were try to <em>reflect</em> the English version back into Chinese without knowing any Chinese yet, I would do something like this:</p>

<pre><code>&lt;dao&gt;&lt;can be&gt;&lt;told&gt;,&lt;not&gt;&lt;the eternal&gt;&lt;dao&gt;
</code></pre>

<p>However, this is not the way the Chinese sentence is structured. It is structured more like this:</p>

<pre><code>&lt;dao&gt;&lt;can&gt;&lt;dao&gt;, &lt;not&gt;&lt;permanent&gt;&lt;dao&gt;
</code></pre>

<p>Two questions. First, can you generically explain at a high level how they got the translation with all the words like "that" and "the". Second, how is <code>&lt;dao&gt;&lt;can&gt;&lt;dao&gt;</code> equal to "the dao that can be told". Is this some sort of convention in Chinese? Or how did they come up with this?</p>

<p>If I were to translate it given my zero knowledge of translation or Chinese, I would do:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Dao permits Dao, negating a permanent Dao</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Am I just way off, or is this part of the fun in translating?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-09-08T14:22:12.470Z
道 is a commonly used word (in older times) for *to say; to utter*, so here the character 道 is used for two different meanings: "Dao" (first 道) and "to speak" (second 道). Check definition (9) on https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%81%93.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-09-11T09:01:01.880Z
You will find that trying to translate ancient Chinese texts requires a deep understanding of the philosophy/history the actual text is trying to convey. In Taoism, there is an emphasis on coming to terms with the boundaries of knowledge: that in creating definitions and naming things etc, we invariably will be forced to leave out aspects of the very definitions and names we create. In some sense, if you have put a name to something, you have not captured its *entire* essence. Now, given this context, how would you translate 道可道，非常道；名可名非常名 ?
Marko
<translation>
Why is 道可道，非恆道 translated to "the Dao that can be told, is not the eternal Dao"?
# Why is 道可道，非恆道 translated to "the Dao that can be told, is not the eternal Dao"?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-09-08)

I am tinkering with learning Chinese and am messing around with the [Tao Te Ching](https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Translation:Tao_Te_Ching). The first sentence in Chinese is this:

> 道可道，非恆道；

The way this is typically translated is this:

> The Dao that can be told, is not the eternal Dao;

If I were try to *reflect* the English version back into Chinese without knowing any Chinese yet, I would do something like this:

```
<dao><can be><told>,<not><the eternal><dao>

```

However, this is not the way the Chinese sentence is structured. It is structured more like this:

```
<dao><can><dao>, <not><permanent><dao>

```

Two questions. First, can you generically explain at a high level how they got the translation with all the words like "that" and "the". Second, how is `<dao><can><dao>` equal to "the dao that can be told". Is this some sort of convention in Chinese? Or how did they come up with this?

If I were to translate it given my zero knowledge of translation or Chinese, I would do:

> Dao permits Dao, negating a permanent Dao

Am I just way off, or is this part of the fun in translating?

**Tags:** translation

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: 道 is a commonly used word (in older times) for *to say; to utter*, so here the character 道 is used for two different meanings: "Dao" (first 道) and "to speak" (second 道). Check definition (9) on https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%81%93.  
> **username_2**: You will find that trying to translate ancient Chinese texts requires a deep understanding of the philosophy/history the actual text is trying to convey. In Taoism, there is an emphasis on coming to terms with the boundaries of knowledge: that in creating definitions and naming things etc, we invariably will be forced to leave out aspects of the very definitions and names we create. In some sense, if you have put a name to something, you have not captured its *entire* essence. Now, given this context, how would you translate 道可道，非常道；名可名非常名 ?  

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## 0 answers

