<p>well, lost in translation lah :) </p>

<p>"以文會友", i would suggest: by means of (以) article | essay | writings (文), to interact with (會) people (友)</p>

<p>以暴易暴, i would suggest:</p>

<p>using (以) violence (暴) to cope with | against (易) violence (暴)</p>

<p>then, the term "文以載道" is tricky, it's derived from 文辭第二十八章 of 周元公集, by 周敦頤 of 宋 dynasty:</p>

<pre><code>文所以載道﹒猶車所以載物﹒故為車者﹒必飾其輪轅﹒
為文者﹒必善其詞說﹒皆欲人之愛而用之﹒然我飾之而人不用﹒
則猶為虛飾而無益於實況﹒不載物之車﹒不載道之文﹒雖美其飾﹒亦何所為乎
</code></pre>

<p><a href="https://archive.org/details/06053510.cn" rel="nofollow noreferrer">周元公集</a>, 卷一, page 69-72</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/vbCUK.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/vbCUK.png" alt="p70"></a></p>

<p>in this article, "文以載道" is roughly: "writings ought to convey virtue"</p>

<p>it's not a word by word translation, but to deliver the original meaning in literary chinese.</p>

<p>about "以文載道", i would say that it loses the emphasis of what a writing (文) should be.</p>

<p>last, if possible, translate from the original text. imo, the b**** is, well, unreliable.</p>

<p>edited, more info.</p>

<p><a href="http://ctext.org/chun-qiu-zuo-zhuan/zhao-gong-yuan-nian/zh" rel="nofollow noreferrer">左傳﹒昭公元年</a></p>

<pre><code>君子有四時﹒朝以聽政﹒晝以訪問﹒夕以脩令﹒夜以安身
</code></pre>

<p>is roughly:</p>

<pre><code>morning (朝) is for (以) administrative work (聽政)﹒
afternoon (晝) is for (以) interview (訪問)﹒
evening (夕) is for (以) order amendment (脩令)﹒
night (夜) is for (以) reposing (安身)
</code></pre>

<p>that, i would say ^.以..$ is a fixed structure, which emphasises the 1st character (the one before "以")</p>

<p>so, changing to "以朝聽政﹒以晝訪問﹒以夕脩令﹒以夜安身", imo, is inappropriate in the above text.</p>

<p>edited again.</p>

<p>last, the term "以文會友" is from <a href="http://ctext.org/analects/yan-yuan" rel="nofollow noreferrer">論語﹒顏淵</a></p>

<pre><code>曾子曰﹒君子以文會友﹒以友輔仁
</code></pre>

<p>so, the "^以...$" structure is roughly "using / by means of" (以 ) + the 2nd character, to serve the purpose of 3rd, 4th characters.</p>

<p>again, changing to "文以會友﹒友以輔仁" is inappropriate in the above text.</p>

<p>have fun :)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-17T16:25:58.330Z
2016-07-17T19:04:19.250Z
2016-07-17T19:04:19.250Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>以 is one of the most confusing words in Chinese. Texts that really challenge me are usually full of it. Today I saw something confusing again:</p>
<p>I encountered the phrase 文以載道。The document claims it means &quot;transport the Way through literature&quot;. I know some similar phrases, but the placement of 以 differs. I add some non idiomatic English translations, to explain my idea:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>以文會友 ： befriend through refined interests</p>
<p>以誠相待 : interact with each other through sincerity</p>
<p>以暴易暴 : replace tyranny through tyranny</p>
<p>以備不虞: through preparation be at ease</p>
<p>以詞害意: through words harm the meaning</p>
</blockquote>
<p>From all these I expected the phrase to be 以文載道。What am I overlooking? I know there might be many things, since Chinese is the pinnacle of versatility - at least among the languages I speak!</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-17T15:43:46.217Z
jukuu: 文以载道:Writings are for conveying truth, also see baike.baidu for origin
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-17T16:04:13.443Z
I don't think all the cases of 以 listed above can be translated as "through". The last but second: 以=in order to. The last one:以=because of
Huang
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-17T16:56:28.880Z
@Huang I trust your expertise. I just wanted to show some commonality. Even with your correction, they still appear pretty similar. But the other sentence is different and it turned out to carry a very distinct meaning.
Ludi
<grammar><meaning><idioms><chengyu>
Why 文以載道 but 以文會友?
# Why 文以載道 but 以文會友?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-07-17)

以 is one of the most confusing words in Chinese. Texts that really challenge me are usually full of it. Today I saw something confusing again:

I encountered the phrase 文以載道。The document claims it means "transport the Way through literature". I know some similar phrases, but the placement of 以 differs. I add some non idiomatic English translations, to explain my idea:

> 以文會友 ： befriend through refined interests
>
> 以誠相待 : interact with each other through sincerity
>
> 以暴易暴 : replace tyranny through tyranny
>
> 以備不虞: through preparation be at ease
>
> 以詞害意: through words harm the meaning

From all these I expected the phrase to be 以文載道。What am I overlooking? I know there might be many things, since Chinese is the pinnacle of versatility - at least among the languages I speak!

**Tags:** grammar, meaning, idioms, chengyu

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: jukuu: 文以载道:Writings are for conveying truth, also see baike.baidu for origin  
> **username_2**: I don't think all the cases of 以 listed above can be translated as "through". The last but second: 以=in order to. The last one:以=because of  
> **username_0**: @username_2 I trust your expertise. I just wanted to show some commonality. Even with your correction, they still appear pretty similar. But the other sentence is different and it turned out to carry a very distinct meaning.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2016-07-17. Score: 4

well, lost in translation lah :)

"以文會友", i would suggest: by means of (以) article | essay | writings (文), to interact with (會) people (友)

以暴易暴, i would suggest:

using (以) violence (暴) to cope with | against (易) violence (暴)

then, the term "文以載道" is tricky, it's derived from 文辭第二十八章 of 周元公集, by 周敦頤 of 宋 dynasty:

```
文所以載道﹒猶車所以載物﹒故為車者﹒必飾其輪轅﹒
為文者﹒必善其詞說﹒皆欲人之愛而用之﹒然我飾之而人不用﹒
則猶為虛飾而無益於實況﹒不載物之車﹒不載道之文﹒雖美其飾﹒亦何所為乎

```

[周元公集](https://archive.org/details/06053510.cn), 卷一, page 69-72

[![p70](https://i.sstatic.net/vbCUK.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/vbCUK.png)

in this article, "文以載道" is roughly: "writings ought to convey virtue"

it's not a word by word translation, but to deliver the original meaning in literary chinese.

about "以文載道", i would say that it loses the emphasis of what a writing (文) should be.

last, if possible, translate from the original text. imo, the b\*\*\*\* is, well, unreliable.

edited, more info.

[左傳﹒昭公元年](http://ctext.org/chun-qiu-zuo-zhuan/zhao-gong-yuan-nian/zh)

```
君子有四時﹒朝以聽政﹒晝以訪問﹒夕以脩令﹒夜以安身

```

is roughly:

```
morning (朝) is for (以) administrative work (聽政)﹒
afternoon (晝) is for (以) interview (訪問)﹒
evening (夕) is for (以) order amendment (脩令)﹒
night (夜) is for (以) reposing (安身)

```

that, i would say ^.以..$ is a fixed structure, which emphasises the 1st character (the one before "以")

so, changing to "以朝聽政﹒以晝訪問﹒以夕脩令﹒以夜安身", imo, is inappropriate in the above text.

edited again.

last, the term "以文會友" is from [論語﹒顏淵](http://ctext.org/analects/yan-yuan)

```
曾子曰﹒君子以文會友﹒以友輔仁

```

so, the "^以...$" structure is roughly "using / by means of" (以 ) + the 2nd character, to serve the purpose of 3rd, 4th characters.

again, changing to "文以會友﹒友以輔仁" is inappropriate in the above text.

have fun :)


---

