<p><strong>以</strong> means "<strong>with</strong>" here</p>

<p>[授人(give people)] [<strong>以</strong>  <strong>(with)</strong>] [鱼 (fish)] [不如 (not as good as)] [授人 (teach people)] [<strong>以</strong>  <strong>(with)</strong> ] [渔 (lessons of fishing)]</p>

<ul>
<li>授 can mean "to give" or " to teach"</li>
<li>鱼 is noun for "fish"</li>
<li>渔 is verb for "to fish"</li>
</ul>

<p>授人以鱼不如授人以渔 = " It is better to teach someone to fish than give someone fish. "</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:04:05.620Z
'以 is 'with'?? How do you figure that? Where did you get that from?
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:10:29.780Z
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/461/  definition 4
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:22:29.653Z
Example: 待人**以**誠，(treat people **with** sincerity); **以**仁治天下 ( govern the world **with** kindness) ;  **以**文會友 (make friends **with** written works) ; **以**武力反抗 ( resist **with** force)
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T10:38:20.120Z
Thanks, that is very interesting! And thanks for the link, I'd never heard of that dictionary! I don't think I would use 'with' each time, but the idea is great! But you would not translate '授人以鱼‘ as 'give person with fish' I think!
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T11:40:08.230Z
How about " donate with fish"? similar to " donate with your own money." "with" here basically means " using"
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T00:49:01.527Z
2016-08-22T03:31:39.750Z
2016-08-22T03:31:39.750Z
Tang Ho
<p>i guess the sentence "授人以魚不如授人以漁" is translated, pretending in the style of literary chinese, from the quote</p>

<pre><code>"give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day.
 teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime"
</code></pre>

<p>which is derived from anne isabella's writing; here's the link to the investigation:</p>

<p><a href="http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/28/fish/" rel="nofollow">http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/28/fish/</a></p>

<p>imo, it's marginally acceptable. the original quote could be translated without 以, e.g.:</p>

<pre><code>授之魚未若教之漁
</code></pre>

<p>added another translation:</p>

<pre><code>授之魚﹒苟延而已﹒未若教之漁﹒裨益一生
</code></pre>

<p>have fun :)</p>

<p>added info:</p>

<pre><code>What if I rewrite "授人以鱼不如授人以渔“ as "把鱼授人不如把渔教人“? 
It is not as poetic, but is it the same or completely wrong?
If acceptable, we have 以 is 把。
</code></pre>

<p>把魚授人 is OK; but 把漁教人, imo, is unacceptable. the least change of it is </p>

<pre><code>把魚授人不如教人以漁
</code></pre>

<p>as i said before in another comment, that with 10 characters only, 3 of them (魚, 如, 漁) have similar pronunciation is not good, better to avoid it.</p>

<p>in <strong>literary chinese</strong>, "以" has numerous usages. let's use 教人以漁 as an example:</p>

<p>if you keep the sequence, it could be interpreted as </p>

<pre><code>teaching (教) someone (人) to fish (漁)
</code></pre>

<p>以 serves the purpose of make it 4 letters long; however, it's not possible to omit 以, "教人漁" is odd.</p>

<p>next, if you change the sequence to 以漁教人, it could be interpreted as</p>

<pre><code>using (以) fishing techniques (漁) to teach (教) people (人)
</code></pre>

<p>that, 以 has the meaning of 用. both of them are correct.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:06:07.143Z
Basically, 以 is there to make a 4 character couplet, favoured by Chinese writers, is that what you are saying?
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:10:50.320Z
if you start by "授人", it's yes, you need "以" to make it to 4 characters long. cause "授人魚" is odd / wrong, in literary chinese.
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:39:48.763Z
Since 授之魚未若教之漁 is not a poem, I would say it is a correctly constructed phrase in classical writing style.  I would go further and write:  "授魚不如教漁"
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:48:53.107Z
well, the main reason that i use 未若 is: 魚 sounds similar to 如, with such few characters, 3 of them with alike pronunciation is, erhhh, better to avoid this situation. "授魚" & "教漁" is odd, the "之" cannot be omitted here. try again :)
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T05:24:09.510Z
What if I rewrite "授人以鱼不如授人以渔“ as "把鱼授人不如把渔教人“? It is not as poetic, but is it the same or completely wrong? If acceptable, we have 以 is 把。
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T06:24:20.300Z
@gangosa, i edited the answer, it's hard to write long answer in comment :(
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T02:42:31.840Z
2016-08-22T06:23:19.543Z
2016-08-22T06:23:19.543Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>I came across this phrase but I cannot really see the function or point of the 2 '以‘。 Must be old Chinese.</p>

<p>授人以鱼不如授人以渔。 (Translated maybe: "Knowledge is the best charity.")</p>

<p>What are the 2 '以‘ doing here please?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-21T23:03:42.770Z
baike:    It's better to teach a man fishing than to give him fish.   授某人以某事 give/teach so. sth.
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-21T23:19:38.597Z
look up 以 in dictionaries, e.g. ＂汉语水平考试词典＂，［义４］表示给与等意义（用在动词后（used after a verb to indicate "give" etc.):借～｜致～｜六乘～三是十八｜给劳动模范～表扬
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T00:28:47.103Z
谢谢。你的意思是这样‘授。。。以。。。‘，‘授。。。以。。。‘在一起合作？？
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T02:29:57.180Z
？？？ A 不如 B，A not equal to，not as good as，inferior to  B，B would be better than A
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T03:16:58.040Z
I understand 不如 quite well.  My question is, 'What is 以 doing here? I cannot find 授以 as a word， but you say 以 indicates 'give'. Are you saying ‘授’ and '以‘ are in combination?授人以鱼 is ‘give a man give a fish' is that your meaning? For an old use of 以 I find:文言连词，与“而”用法相同：梦寐～求。
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T04:07:18.490Z
as 2nd comment says, 以 after verbs of giving, providing etc. like 借、致，给 introduces the object that is given to the person, V 某人 以 某事 corresponds to English V with indirect object so./ 某人 and direct object sth./ 某事 （in case of ditransitive E verb), or V sth./某事  to  so./ 某人。Again，

给A以B，give A B ，give B to A，similarly for other verbs of type 给
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T06:26:25.180Z
should have read comment more carefully, answering comment #6 again, no it is not "my meaning" 授 means teach, with direct object 人, 以 introduces the thing that is being taught 渔 fishing, not 鱼 fish, also the examples in comment #2 (copied from dictionary) explain
the use of 以 （perhaps not the English text)
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T11:51:51.213Z
That is why I think the 2 以 may not be the same: 授人以鱼 and 授人以渔， but if we assume 以 is 把： 把鱼授人不如把渔教人。Below I was told 以 is 'with', but that doesn't really work, in English anyway. I get the feeling, 以 is used more for rhythm than meaning. Chinese likes 4 characters.
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-08-22T13:23:49.447Z
?that is why? According to baike's translation do the 2 以 not play the same role?   给某人以某事，give so. sth., give sth. to so. 授某人以某事 teach so. sth., teach sth. to so.(授 to teach，to instruct，to award，to give),   以 may correspond to "with",in the case of "provide with, supply" 给（pronounced jǐ)  给以 provide with
user6065
<usage>
What is the function and/or meaning of the 2 '以‘ in this phrase?
# What is the function and/or meaning of the 2 '以‘ in this phrase?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-08-21)

I came across this phrase but I cannot really see the function or point of the 2 '以‘。 Must be old Chinese.

授人以鱼不如授人以渔。 (Translated maybe: "Knowledge is the best charity.")

What are the 2 '以‘ doing here please?

**Tags:** usage

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: baike:    It's better to teach a man fishing than to give him fish.   授某人以某事 give/teach so. sth.  
> **username_1**: look up 以 in dictionaries, e.g. ＂汉语水平考试词典＂，［义４］表示给与等意义（用在动词后（used after a verb to indicate "give" etc.):借～｜致～｜六乘～三是十八｜给劳动模范～表扬  
> **username_0**: 谢谢。你的意思是这样‘授。。。以。。。‘，‘授。。。以。。。‘在一起合作？？  
> **username_1**: ？？？ A 不如 B，A not equal to，not as good as，inferior to  B，B would be better than A  
> **username_0**: I understand 不如 quite well.  My question is, 'What is 以 doing here? I cannot find 授以 as a word， but you say 以 indicates 'give'. Are you saying ‘授’ and '以‘ are in combination?授人以鱼 is ‘give a man give a fish' is that your meaning? For an old use of 以 I find:文言连词，与“而”用法相同：梦寐～求。  
> **username_1**: as 2nd comment says, 以 after verbs of giving, providing etc. like 借、致，给 introduces the object that is given to the person, V 某人 以 某事 corresponds to English V with indirect object so./ 某人 and direct object sth./ 某事 （in case of ditransitive E verb), or V sth./某事  to  so./ 某人。Again，  给A以B，give A B ，give B to A，similarly for other verbs of type 给  
> **username_1**: should have read comment more carefully, answering comment #6 again, no it is not "my meaning" 授 means teach, with direct object 人, 以 introduces the thing that is being taught 渔 fishing, not 鱼 fish, also the examples in comment #2 (copied from dictionary) explain the use of 以 （perhaps not the English text)  
> **username_0**: That is why I think the 2 以 may not be the same: 授人以鱼 and 授人以渔， but if we assume 以 is 把： 把鱼授人不如把渔教人。Below I was told 以 is 'with', but that doesn't really work, in English anyway. I get the feeling, 以 is used more for rhythm than meaning. Chinese likes 4 characters.  
> **username_1**: ?that is why? According to baike's translation do the 2 以 not play the same role?   给某人以某事，give so. sth., give sth. to so. 授某人以某事 teach so. sth., teach sth. to so.(授 to teach，to instruct，to award，to give),   以 may correspond to "with",in the case of "provide with, supply" 给（pronounced jǐ)  给以 provide with  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2016-08-22. Score: 2

**以** means "**with**" here

[授人(give people)] [**以** **(with)**] [鱼 (fish)] [不如 (not as good as)] [授人 (teach people)] [**以** **(with)** ] [渔 (lessons of fishing)]

* 授 can mean "to give" or " to teach"
* 鱼 is noun for "fish"
* 渔 is verb for "to fish"

授人以鱼不如授人以渔 = " It is better to teach someone to fish than give someone fish. "

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: '以 is 'with'?? How do you figure that? Where did you get that from?  
> **username_2**: http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/461/  definition 4  
> **username_2**: Example: 待人**以**誠，(treat people **with** sincerity); **以**仁治天下 ( govern the world **with** kindness) ;  **以**文會友 (make friends **with** written works) ; **以**武力反抗 ( resist **with** force)  
> **username_0**: Thanks, that is very interesting! And thanks for the link, I'd never heard of that dictionary! I don't think I would use 'with' each time, but the idea is great! But you would not translate '授人以鱼‘ as 'give person with fish' I think!  
> **username_2**: How about " donate with fish"? similar to " donate with your own money." "with" here basically means " using"  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2016-08-22. Score: 1

i guess the sentence "授人以魚不如授人以漁" is translated, pretending in the style of literary chinese, from the quote

```
"give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day.
 teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime"

```

which is derived from anne isabella's writing; here's the link to the investigation:

<http://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/08/28/fish/>

imo, it's marginally acceptable. the original quote could be translated without 以, e.g.:

```
授之魚未若教之漁

```

added another translation:

```
授之魚﹒苟延而已﹒未若教之漁﹒裨益一生

```

have fun :)

added info:

```
What if I rewrite "授人以鱼不如授人以渔“ as "把鱼授人不如把渔教人“? 
It is not as poetic, but is it the same or completely wrong?
If acceptable, we have 以 is 把。

```

把魚授人 is OK; but 把漁教人, imo, is unacceptable. the least change of it is

```
把魚授人不如教人以漁

```

as i said before in another comment, that with 10 characters only, 3 of them (魚, 如, 漁) have similar pronunciation is not good, better to avoid it.

in **literary chinese**, "以" has numerous usages. let's use 教人以漁 as an example:

if you keep the sequence, it could be interpreted as

```
teaching (教) someone (人) to fish (漁)

```

以 serves the purpose of make it 4 letters long; however, it's not possible to omit 以, "教人漁" is odd.

next, if you change the sequence to 以漁教人, it could be interpreted as

```
using (以) fishing techniques (漁) to teach (教) people (人)

```

that, 以 has the meaning of 用. both of them are correct.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Basically, 以 is there to make a 4 character couplet, favoured by Chinese writers, is that what you are saying?  
> **username_3**: if you start by "授人", it's yes, you need "以" to make it to 4 characters long. cause "授人魚" is odd / wrong, in literary chinese.  
> **username_2**: Since 授之魚未若教之漁 is not a poem, I would say it is a correctly constructed phrase in classical writing style.  I would go further and write:  "授魚不如教漁"  
> **username_3**: well, the main reason that i use 未若 is: 魚 sounds similar to 如, with such few characters, 3 of them with alike pronunciation is, erhhh, better to avoid this situation. "授魚" & "教漁" is odd, the "之" cannot be omitted here. try again :)  
> **username_0**: What if I rewrite "授人以鱼不如授人以渔“ as "把鱼授人不如把渔教人“? It is not as poetic, but is it the same or completely wrong? If acceptable, we have 以 is 把。  
> **username_3**: @username_0, i edited the answer, it's hard to write long answer in comment :(  

---

