<ol>
<li><p>It is always good practice to look up the etymology of an idiom whenever you are learning one:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>（阮籍）嗜酒能嘯，善彈琴。當其<strong>得意</strong>，忽<strong>忘形</strong>骸。《晉書．卷四九．阮籍列傳》(<a href="https://pedia.cloud.edu.tw/Entry/Detail/?title=%E5%BE%97%E6%84%8F%E5%BF%98%E5%BD%A2" rel="nofollow noreferrer">教育部成語字典</a>)</p>
<p>Ruan Ji enjoys wine and a good wail; he is also skilled in playing the <em>guqin</em>. Whenever he derives joy (from these), without warning, he forgets his physical form.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Ruan Ji was one of the Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove (竹林七賢). They developed a particularly hedonistic lifestyle – it is important to understand the original (positive) meaning of the idiom with this context.</p>
<p>While in modern Chinese, we see <code>得意</code> as an indivisible word that means 'to be proud of oneself; to be complacent', it is separable in classical Chinese (and has a different meaning too), which is arguably more accurate when we are interpreting idioms with a literal approach.</p>
<p><code>得</code> is a verb meaning 'to get; to acquire'.</p>
<p><code>意</code> is obscurely polysemous. It can mean 'idea' (e.g., <code>意義</code>, <code>意在言外</code> in modern Chinese) and 'intention' (e.g., <code>意圖</code>, <code>不懷好意</code>). But here, it should mean 'interest; pleasure'. Consider another similar example:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>醉翁之<strong>意</strong>不在酒，在乎山水之間也。《醉翁亭記》</p>
<p>This <em>joy</em> from the mountains and the water he feels within his mind; he merely ascribes it to the wine.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This suggests, in very crude terms, that the enjoyment of a drinker is not derived from the wine itself, but the environment in which the wine is drunk. In modern Chinese, we say someone is having an ulterior motive if we say <code>醉翁之意不在酒</code>.</p>
</li>
<li><p>However, idioms are known to be especially prone to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_change" rel="nofollow noreferrer">semantic shift</a>. <code>得意忘形</code> is no longer used to describe someone as being hedonistic (which is neutral, perhaps somewhat approving), but careless due to extreme glee (which is definitely disapproving).</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p><strong>References</strong></p>
<p>Lian, Xianda. “The Old Drunkard Who Finds Joy in His Own Joy -Elitist Ideas in Ouyang Xiu's Informal Writings.” Chinese Literature: Essays, Articles, Reviews (CLEAR), vol. 23, 2001, pp. 1–29. JSTOR, <a href="http://www.jstor.org/stable/495498" rel="nofollow noreferrer">www.jstor.org/stable/495498</a>. Accessed 20 Apr. 2021.</p>
<p>Hegel, Robert E. &quot;A Record of the Pavilion of an Intoxicated Old Man,&quot; in The Columbia Anthology of Traditional Chinese Literature, ed. Victor H. Mair (New York: Columbia University Press, 1994), pp. 590–591.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-20T08:06:48.587Z
2021-04-20T09:39:39.477Z
2021-04-20T09:39:39.477Z
L Parker
<p>得意忘形</p>
<p>The meaning lies in  意忘形</p>
<p>Both 意 and 忘 contain  心, the mind</p>
<p>意：音：sound, person speaking + 心 mind = thoughts, ideas<br />
忘：亡：gone + 心 mind = forgotten<br />
形：form, shape, appearance</p>
<p>意忘形: mind forget its form</p>
<p>得：just for tacking this onto other words</p>
<p>她得意忘形, 不要得意忘形, 就会得意忘形</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-20T22:21:06.943Z
2021-04-20T22:21:06.943Z
Pedroski
<p>I highly disagree with what L Parker said:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>It is always good practice to look up the etymology of an idiom whenever you are learning one</p>
</blockquote>
<p>First off, making blanket statements about learning methodology will always be a dangerous pitfall for whoever is making the statement, and for whoever is listening to the statement, no matter who is involved, and no matter what the statement is. I had to learn this the hard way. The &quot;ideal&quot; forms of learning realized by relatively seasoned people can only be true in very specific contexts.</p>
<p>Personally, I would never even think to bother with researching the etymology or whatever have you when learning idioms. I'm not going to discourage other people from doing that, though, because, maybe, knowing the etymology to a given idiom might give the learner a certain boost in confidence, and thus inspire him or her to achieve more. And, likewise, there are a ton, even infinite, possible scenarios when when an experienced person's advice can go totally wrong. The moral of the story here is: take people's advice with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>With that out of the way, looking the etymology of an idiom, in my eyes, is horrible practice. Asking questions of the nature of &quot;why&quot; is the complete antithesis to progress. If you want to progress in Chinese, or progress in anything, for that matter, I suggest you tone down your level of curiosity. Only worry about things like etymology and such if you are a scholar in a certain field. I used to be curious, and I used look up the etymologies for Chinese characters/idioms here and there, and then I realized what a major pitfall that kind of behavior is.</p>
<p>Back to your question. 得意忘形 is actually pretty self-explanatory. 得意 means gain satisfaction, or something along those lines （得 is gain, and 意 is meaning）. 忘 means forget, and 形 means shape, as in the shape of your body/personality/being/spirit/etc. i.e. you're so excited or happy or fulfilled or whatever that you basically lose your regular composure. That's basically how you parse it.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-25T23:35:43.600Z
Please don’t dedicate 90% of an answer which basically tries to discourage people from asking actually interesting questions about the language. I’m sorry if you’ve had an unpleasant experience with mediocre resources and mediocre “native speakers” in the past giving you bad advice, but we’re not a site for churning through bland HSK tests. Whatever your competency in Chinese, if you’re not here with a learning attitude, this site isn’t for you.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-25T23:37:54.713Z
"Asking questions of the nature of 'why' is the complete antithesis to progress." – this is the perfect antithesis for StackExchange.
L Parker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-26T00:53:00.237Z
Agree with dROOOze and L Parker. we should keep asking why as many times as possible, so we should come to valid conclusion and perfect answers
user27485
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-25T21:02:24.233Z
2021-04-25T21:02:24.233Z
njnjnjn
<p>How the meaning is derived for 得意忘形?</p>
<p>得意忘形 déyìwàngxíng grow dizzy with success; be carried away by one's success so pleased as to lose one's sense of measure</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-20T04:39:38.503Z
It's quite self-explanatory.  得意: complacent about something.  忘形: 忘记自己的形象，身份，等。be beside oneself.
dan
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-20T06:19:47.610Z
splitting as 得意 and 忘形 make things better. But 得+ 意 (idea) why it becomes complacent? 忘 (forget) + 形(shape) becomes  beside oneself?
user27485
<grammar><usage><meaning-in-context>
How the meaning is derived for 得意忘形?
# How the meaning is derived for 得意忘形?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2021-04-20)

How the meaning is derived for 得意忘形?

得意忘形 déyìwàngxíng grow dizzy with success; be carried away by one's success so pleased as to lose one's sense of measure

**Tags:** grammar, usage, meaning-in-context

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: It's quite self-explanatory.  得意: complacent about something.  忘形: 忘记自己的形象，身份，等。be beside oneself.  
> **username_0**: splitting as 得意 and 忘形 make things better. But 得+ 意 (idea) why it becomes complacent? 忘 (forget) + 形(shape) becomes  beside oneself?  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2021-04-20. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

1. It is always good practice to look up the etymology of an idiom whenever you are learning one:

   > （阮籍）嗜酒能嘯，善彈琴。當其**得意**，忽**忘形**骸。《晉書．卷四九．阮籍列傳》([教育部成語字典](https://pedia.cloud.edu.tw/Entry/Detail/?title=%E5%BE%97%E6%84%8F%E5%BF%98%E5%BD%A2))
   >
   > Ruan Ji enjoys wine and a good wail; he is also skilled in playing the *guqin*. Whenever he derives joy (from these), without warning, he forgets his physical form.

   Ruan Ji was one of the Seven Sages of the Bamboo Grove (竹林七賢). They developed a particularly hedonistic lifestyle – it is important to understand the original (positive) meaning of the idiom with this context.

   While in modern Chinese, we see `得意` as an indivisible word that means 'to be proud of oneself; to be complacent', it is separable in classical Chinese (and has a different meaning too), which is arguably more accurate when we are interpreting idioms with a literal approach.

   `得` is a verb meaning 'to get; to acquire'.

   `意` is obscurely polysemous. It can mean 'idea' (e.g., `意義`, `意在言外` in modern Chinese) and 'intention' (e.g., `意圖`, `不懷好意`). But here, it should mean 'interest; pleasure'. Consider another similar example:

   > 醉翁之**意**不在酒，在乎山水之間也。《醉翁亭記》
   >
   > This *joy* from the mountains and the water he feels within his mind; he merely ascribes it to the wine.

   This suggests, in very crude terms, that the enjoyment of a drinker is not derived from the wine itself, but the environment in which the wine is drunk. In modern Chinese, we say someone is having an ulterior motive if we say `醉翁之意不在酒`.
2. However, idioms are known to be especially prone to [semantic shift](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_change). `得意忘形` is no longer used to describe someone as being hedonistic (which is neutral, perhaps somewhat approving), but careless due to extreme glee (which is definitely disapproving).

**References**

Lian, Xianda. “The Old Drunkard Who Finds Joy in His Own Joy -Elitist Ideas in Ouyang Xiu's Informal Writings.” Chinese Literature: Essays, Articles, Reviews (CLEAR), vol. 23, 2001, pp. 1–29. JSTOR, [www.jstor.org/stable/495498](http://www.jstor.org/stable/495498). Accessed 20 Apr. 2021.

Hegel, Robert E. "A Record of the Pavilion of an Intoxicated Old Man," in The Columbia Anthology of Traditional Chinese Literature, ed. Victor H. Mair (New York: Columbia University Press, 1994), pp. 590–591.


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2021-04-20. Score: 1

得意忘形

The meaning lies in 意忘形

Both 意 and 忘 contain 心, the mind

意：音：sound, person speaking + 心 mind = thoughts, ideas  
忘：亡：gone + 心 mind = forgotten  
形：form, shape, appearance

意忘形: mind forget its form

得：just for tacking this onto other words

她得意忘形, 不要得意忘形, 就会得意忘形


---

### Answer by username_4 on 2021-04-25. Score: -2

I highly disagree with what L username_2 said:

> It is always good practice to look up the etymology of an idiom whenever you are learning one

First off, making blanket statements about learning methodology will always be a dangerous pitfall for whoever is making the statement, and for whoever is listening to the statement, no matter who is involved, and no matter what the statement is. I had to learn this the hard way. The "ideal" forms of learning realized by relatively seasoned people can only be true in very specific contexts.

Personally, I would never even think to bother with researching the etymology or whatever have you when learning idioms. I'm not going to discourage other people from doing that, though, because, maybe, knowing the etymology to a given idiom might give the learner a certain boost in confidence, and thus inspire him or her to achieve more. And, likewise, there are a ton, even infinite, possible scenarios when when an experienced person's advice can go totally wrong. The moral of the story here is: take people's advice with a grain of salt.

With that out of the way, looking the etymology of an idiom, in my eyes, is horrible practice. Asking questions of the nature of "why" is the complete antithesis to progress. If you want to progress in Chinese, or progress in anything, for that matter, I suggest you tone down your level of curiosity. Only worry about things like etymology and such if you are a scholar in a certain field. I used to be curious, and I used look up the etymologies for Chinese characters/idioms here and there, and then I realized what a major pitfall that kind of behavior is.

Back to your question. 得意忘形 is actually pretty self-explanatory. 得意 means gain satisfaction, or something along those lines （得 is gain, and 意 is meaning）. 忘 means forget, and 形 means shape, as in the shape of your body/personality/being/spirit/etc. i.e. you're so excited or happy or fulfilled or whatever that you basically lose your regular composure. That's basically how you parse it.

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: Please don’t dedicate 90% of an answer which basically tries to discourage people from asking actually interesting questions about the language. I’m sorry if you’ve had an unpleasant experience with mediocre resources and mediocre “native speakers” in the past giving you bad advice, but we’re not a site for churning through bland HSK tests. Whatever your competency in Chinese, if you’re not here with a learning attitude, this site isn’t for you.  
> **username_2**: "Asking questions of the nature of 'why' is the complete antithesis to progress." – this is the perfect antithesis for StackExchange.  
> **username_0**: Agree with username_5 and L username_2. we should keep asking why as many times as possible, so we should come to valid conclusion and perfect answers  

---

