<p>Yes they use /l/.
People from the Southwest sometimes can not distinguish /n/ and /l/ very well.
For example,  牛奶 [milk], in standard mandarin it should be [niu2 nai3]; however, people from the southwest usually say [liu12 lai4]; even if when they are trying to speak mandarin, they prounance like [liu2 lai3].</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-06T05:41:11.823Z
2016-07-06T05:41:11.823Z
Jane
<p>In "literary" Southwestern Mandarin, there is an n initial, as in 你 ni, as well as an ng initial, as in 我. It's a different literary standard to Standard Chinese but has parallels.
However, while this is technically the case, with the rise of Standard Chinese, literary SW Mandarin is disappearing.
Vernacular SW Mandarin, however, is not. And in common speech, n becomes l and the ng inital is lost, resulting in 你 li and 我 o. This is also the case in many Southern and Eastern Mandarin dialects. </p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-04-09T19:35:11.180Z
2020-04-09T19:35:11.180Z
dinolingo
<p>成都话方言词典 (1987) lists a bunch of words under the IPA initial /Ĩ/.</p>

<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Mandarin" rel="nofollow">Southwestern Mandarin</a> doesn't seem to actually have this initial according to <em>most</em> other resources who put all the /Ĩ/ listed words under the initial /n/.</p>

<p>For example 成都话方言词典 lists 路 as /Ĩu/ (ignoring tones for now) whereas most other resources list it as /nu/. The /Ĩu/ IPA results in a 'pinyin' of <code>lu</code> while the /nu/ IPA gives a pinyin of <code>nu</code>.</p>

<p>I can't find <strong>anything</strong> to back up 成都话方言词典's usage of /Ĩ/, regardless, my real question is:</p>

<ul>
<li>Does /Ĩ/ <em>really</em> exist in Southwestern Mandarin?</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-28T15:47:38.203Z
Does the resource also have initial n, or is it just using that to stand in for "could be realized as n or l depending on vowel".
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-28T15:56:38.350Z
Resource doesn't have an n initial. It does however have `ȵ` and `ŋ` initials.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-09-28T16:31:11.493Z
Ok, I think they're just using that weird letter to stand for "the single phoneme realized as [n] or [l]".
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-06T11:59:43.597Z
I'm not familiar with IPA symbols. Does that symbol represent the sound of letter L as in 路? If yes, then the answer is yes
Huang
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-06T12:02:40.433Z
@Huang According to《成都话方言词典》路 is Ĩu²¹³
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-06T12:06:12.890Z
@user3306356 so what's the difference between L and L with a wave above? I pronounce 路 in Sichuan dialect the same as I do in Mandarin, except for the tone
Huang
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-06T12:09:34.340Z
@Huang Right. That was kind of my question, too. There isn't much information about it, that I can find, at least.
Mou某
<pronunciation>
Does /Ĩ/ *really* exist in Southwestern Mandarin?
# Does /Ĩ/ *really* exist in Southwestern Mandarin?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2015-09-28)

成都话方言词典 (1987) lists a bunch of words under the IPA initial /Ĩ/.

[Southwestern Mandarin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwestern_Mandarin) doesn't seem to actually have this initial according to *most* other resources who put all the /Ĩ/ listed words under the initial /n/.

For example 成都话方言词典 lists 路 as /Ĩu/ (ignoring tones for now) whereas most other resources list it as /nu/. The /Ĩu/ IPA results in a 'pinyin' of `lu` while the /nu/ IPA gives a pinyin of `nu`.

I can't find **anything** to back up 成都话方言词典's usage of /Ĩ/, regardless, my real question is:

* Does /Ĩ/ *really* exist in Southwestern Mandarin?

**Tags:** pronunciation

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Does the resource also have initial n, or is it just using that to stand in for "could be realized as n or l depending on vowel".  
> **username_0**: Resource doesn't have an n initial. It does however have `ȵ` and `ŋ` initials.  
> **username_1**: Ok, I think they're just using that weird letter to stand for "the single phoneme realized as [n] or [l]".  
> **username_2**: I'm not familiar with IPA symbols. Does that symbol represent the sound of letter L as in 路? If yes, then the answer is yes  
> **username_0**: @username_2 According to《成都话方言词典》路 is Ĩu²¹³  
> **username_2**: @user3306356 so what's the difference between L and L with a wave above? I pronounce 路 in Sichuan dialect the same as I do in Mandarin, except for the tone  
> **username_0**: @username_2 Right. That was kind of my question, too. There isn't much information about it, that I can find, at least.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2016-07-06. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

Yes they use /l/.
People from the Southwest sometimes can not distinguish /n/ and /l/ very well.
For example, 牛奶 [milk], in standard mandarin it should be [niu2 nai3]; however, people from the southwest usually say [liu12 lai4]; even if when they are trying to speak mandarin, they prounance like [liu2 lai3].


---

### Answer by username_4 on 2020-04-09. Score: 0

In "literary" Southwestern Mandarin, there is an n initial, as in 你 ni, as well as an ng initial, as in 我. It's a different literary standard to Standard Chinese but has parallels.
However, while this is technically the case, with the rise of Standard Chinese, literary SW Mandarin is disappearing.
Vernacular SW Mandarin, however, is not. And in common speech, n becomes l and the ng inital is lost, resulting in 你 li and 我 o. This is also the case in many Southern and Eastern Mandarin dialects.


---

