<p>I'm not sure 北方话 here means mandarin (官话) languages or the Chinese languages in northern China. </p>

<p>If the former, most 桂柳官话, i.e. southwestern mandarins in Guangxi, meet your requirements.</p>

<p>If the latter, some dialects in Shandong preserve the pronunciation somehow between palatal and velar.</p>

<p>A CCP political figure 孙政才, who is from 山东荣成, speaks with an accent with this feature. BTW, he was beaten by Xi, sentenced to life imprisonment.</p>

<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiYW9i90nP4" rel="nofollow noreferrer">孙政才讲话</a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-05-27T09:56:50.103Z
2020-05-27T15:42:56.657Z
2020-05-27T15:42:56.657Z
Griffith
<blockquote>
  <p>传统河南话大部分都区分尖团音。上年纪的人改不掉。</p>
  
  <p>河南人说普通话就是分尖团的。例如尖和间、箭和剑的音读出来是不一样的……</p>
  
  <p>河南南阳一带方言和粤语中仍然完整的保留着尖团音。</p>
  
  <p>你听听京剧就知道了，里边的尖团音区分还是比较明显的，这说明在北京方言里还有一定的留存……</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Source:</p>

<p><a href="https://www.zhihu.com/question/62512562" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.zhihu.com/question/62512562</a></p>

<p><a href="https://www.zhihu.com/question/35130836" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.zhihu.com/question/35130836</a></p>

<p><a href="https://www.zhihu.com/question/313313381" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.zhihu.com/question/313313381</a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-23T05:05:23.400Z
2019-11-23T05:05:23.400Z
Wei
<p>It's well known that Modern Standard Mandarin has merged what were historically velar stops and alveolar silibants when followed by front vowels. For instance, 京 is "jing" rather than "ging", and 津 is "jin" rather than "zin".</p>

<p>While there are plenty of southern dialects which preserve this distinction, I was under the impression that 北方话 dialects (regardless of whether they are in the north) had this merger.</p>

<p>However in a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiX_aFtO67Y&amp;t=54s" rel="nofollow noreferrer">YouTube video (from the 老饭骨 channel)</a>, I heard what seems to be 激 pronounced by one of them as "gi" (the other uses standard "ji"). Is this distinction still a thing in at least some northern dialects? Or perhaps a merger where the velars won?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T08:29:38.837Z
Some examples from Henan dialect: 津 zin, 箭 zian, 西 si, 想 siang, 线 sian, 千 cian.
ltux
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T09:30:57.367Z
Do you have a link to the 老饭骨 video?
Michaelyus
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T18:15:49.310Z
@Michaelyus added video link w/timestamp
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T18:23:53.563Z
@ltux : How are 京, 激, etc. pronounced in Henan dialect? With velars? If so, you could make this an answer to my question.
Stumpy Joe Pete
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T22:29:19.547Z
@Stumpy Joe Pete 京 jing, 激 ji, same with mandarin. I can only think of examples similar to 津 zin, as listed in my comment. Not able to find examples similar to 京 ging.
ltux
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-25T19:28:46.717Z
@StumpyJoePete My ears only detect 激 with [tɕ]~ [c], very palatal, but not really [k]. The other aspects of non-普通ness are stronger.
Michaelyus
<topolect><phonology>
Are there northern dialects which still preserve velars before front vowels?
# Are there northern dialects which still preserve velars before front vowels?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-11-21)

It's well known that Modern Standard Mandarin has merged what were historically velar stops and alveolar silibants when followed by front vowels. For instance, 京 is "jing" rather than "ging", and 津 is "jin" rather than "zin".

While there are plenty of southern dialects which preserve this distinction, I was under the impression that 北方话 dialects (regardless of whether they are in the north) had this merger.

However in a [YouTube video (from the 老饭骨 channel)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiX_aFtO67Y&t=54s), I heard what seems to be 激 pronounced by one of them as "gi" (the other uses standard "ji"). Is this distinction still a thing in at least some northern dialects? Or perhaps a merger where the velars won?

**Tags:** topolect, phonology

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Some examples from Henan dialect: 津 zin, 箭 zian, 西 si, 想 siang, 线 sian, 千 cian.  
> **username_2**: Do you have a link to the 老饭骨 video?  
> **username_0**: @username_2 added video link w/timestamp  
> **username_0**: @username_1 : How are 京, 激, etc. pronounced in Henan dialect? With velars? If so, you could make this an answer to my question.  
> **username_1**: @username_0 京 jing, 激 ji, same with mandarin. I can only think of examples similar to 津 zin, as listed in my comment. Not able to find examples similar to 京 ging.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 My ears only detect 激 with [tɕ]~ [c], very palatal, but not really [k]. The other aspects of non-普通ness are stronger.  

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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2020-05-27. Score: 1

I'm not sure 北方话 here means mandarin (官话) languages or the Chinese languages in northern China.

If the former, most 桂柳官话, i.e. southwestern mandarins in Guangxi, meet your requirements.

If the latter, some dialects in Shandong preserve the pronunciation somehow between palatal and velar.

A CCP political figure 孙政才, who is from 山东荣成, speaks with an accent with this feature. BTW, he was beaten by Xi, sentenced to life imprisonment.

[孙政才讲话](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiYW9i90nP4)


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### Answer by username_4 on 2019-11-23. Score: 0

> 传统河南话大部分都区分尖团音。上年纪的人改不掉。
>
> 河南人说普通话就是分尖团的。例如尖和间、箭和剑的音读出来是不一样的……
>
> 河南南阳一带方言和粤语中仍然完整的保留着尖团音。
>
> 你听听京剧就知道了，里边的尖团音区分还是比较明显的，这说明在北京方言里还有一定的留存……

Source:

<https://www.zhihu.com/question/62512562>

<https://www.zhihu.com/question/35130836>

<https://www.zhihu.com/question/313313381>


---

