<p>Quote:- &quot;...my OP was about whether/when/how 的 must/can/mustn’t appear when adjectives are used attributively&quot;</p>
<p>I am not aware of any strict grammatical rules that you could apply universally and not losing any sleep over it.</p>
<p>As you are aware, Chinese is a highly contextual language.</p>
<p>For example, following on from 红色的书 and 红书, it is semantically correct to say that, without any particular context, they both mean, and ordinarily taken to mean a book that has a red cover.</p>
<p>However, given a certain context, they could diverge or take on significantly differences in meaning.</p>
<p>For example, though 红色的书 could still arguably retain the &quot;red cover&quot; connotation, (the 的 is definitively crucial here), however, 红书 may take on the meaning, or understanding, that the &quot;contents&quot; of the book may contain material which is derivative of or identified with the color red, such as &quot;Leftist&quot; propaganda, or socially irresponsible writings as the color red commonly implies something &quot;inflammatory&quot; or controversial, dangerous in nature, (possibly because it is the color of blood and blood is &quot;seen&quot; when one suffers a bodily injury and bleeds), though the book cover may actually be green in color.</p>
<p>A famous &quot;Little Red Book&quot; containing writings and speeches of Chairman Mao Tse-tung  is actually not titled &quot;Little Red Book&quot; in Chinese, but &quot;Quotations from Chairman Mao&quot; (毛主席语录) It is called &quot;Little Red Book&quot; simply because it has a red cover.</p>
<p>Recently there appears a &quot;Little Red Book&quot;, known as Xiaohongshu 小红书, and is the Chinese equivalent of Instagram. (<a href="https://walkthechat.com/xiaohongshu-little-red-book-fostering-e-commerce-via-word-mouth/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://walkthechat.com/xiaohongshu-little-red-book-fostering-e-commerce-via-word-mouth/</a>)</p>
<p>So, sometimes, in fact most times, the 的 makes all the difference and people who either grew up with the language or has studied the language for a while has a better intuitive understanding of its linguistic nuances.</p>
<p>Besides red, the color yellow also has a certain contextual nuance in Chinese cultural understanding. The term &quot;Yellow Culture&quot; is a direct translation of the Chinese phrase &quot;黄色文化&quot;, (&quot;Huang Se Wen Hua&quot;), which refers to socially decadent behavior such as gambling, opium-smoking, pornography, prostitution, corruption and nepotism that plagued much of China in centuries past.</p>
<p>In English, we have &quot;purple passage&quot;, an elaborate or excessively ornate passage in a literary composition. In other cultures, other colors may have localized, specific cultural connotations.</p>
<p>的 is therefore a fundamental grammatical, syntactical feature of the Chinese language, and which seems to cause the most &quot;problems&quot; to first time learners, possibly because by itself it is actually meaningless and yet it defines the very semantic essence of a sentence.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-28T14:29:15.307Z
Thanks @Wayne Cheah!  One of the hypotheses I’d cooked up was that—as you’ve explained—there can be differences, but (and?) there’s no neat and tidy way to explain them to a non-native speaker. Oh well, that just means I have that much more opportunity to improve my competence in 中文 :-)
Paul Tanenbaum
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-28T04:34:30.303Z
2023-04-28T04:42:45.607Z
2023-04-28T04:42:45.607Z
Wayne Cheah
<p>In Chinese, attributive adjectives are placed before the noun they modify. For example, 红色的书 (red book) and 蓝色的衣服 (blue clothes).</p>
<p>The particle 的 is used to connect the adjective to the noun. It is optional in some cases, such as when the adjective is short and easy to understand. For example, 红书 (red book) and 蓝衣服 (blue clothes) are also correct.</p>
<p>However, it is generally recommended to use 的 in formal writing. It also helps to avoid confusion when the adjective is long or difficult to understand. For example, 深蓝色的衣服 (dark blue clothes) is more clear than 蓝衣服.</p>
<p>Here are some other qualities besides color that can be used attributively:</p>
<ul>
<li>Size: 大的房子 (big house)</li>
<li>Shape: 圆形的桌子 (round table)</li>
<li>Material: 木制的椅子 (wooden chair)</li>
<li>Age: 旧的书 (old book)</li>
<li>Newness: 新的衣服 (new clothes)</li>
<li>Nationality: 中国国旗 (Chinese flag)</li>
<li>Profession: 医生的办公室 (doctor's office)</li>
<li>Religion: 佛教寺庙 (Buddhist temple)</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-27T17:56:13.737Z
Thanks @Paul Lake. Interesting and helpful. And just to be clear, my OP was about whether/when/how 的 must/can/mustn’t appear when adjectives are used attributively.
Paul Tanenbaum
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-27T15:31:24.880Z
2023-04-27T15:31:24.880Z
Paul Lake
<p>Question: How do I specify colors? For example, 红色的车 and 红车.</p>
<p>I think it more depends on the custom and practice than the grammar rules. 红色的车 and 红车 mean the same but 红色的车 is more elaborate.</p>
<p>For example, you can say 红色的汽车 in detail or 红车 in short, but you do not want to be in the middle and say 红色车.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-27T13:31:51.360Z
Thanks! I also wonder if, by any chance, 红色的 conveys anything along the lines of “of the red variety”?
Paul Tanenbaum
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-27T13:40:06.410Z
Both 红色的 and 红 can convey “of the red color” or “of the red variety”, it all depends on the perception. It is not because you have the "色的" or not in the sentence.
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-27T13:44:28.533Z
Much obliged. And while I have you (:-), is color the only attribute that works this way, or is it the case that whenever I see “ADJ 的 N” the 的 is optional? Thus for example, either 老人 or 老的人?
Paul Tanenbaum
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-27T13:48:59.427Z
If you really mean to specify a "red variety", you can have 深红的，浅红的，紫红的，粉红的，枣红的，橘红的， etc.
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-27T13:54:04.447Z
“ADJ 的 N” the 的 is optional? I am not sure about a grammar rule about it. Usually, when the ADJ is a multiple-syllable word, you would like to have the word 的. For example, you may want to say 红色的车 than 红色车.
PdotWang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-04-27T13:22:55.443Z
2023-04-27T13:22:55.443Z
PdotWang
<p>I’ve been using Duolingo and Google Translate (definitely not the most authoritative of sources) and have seen constructs like</p>
<blockquote>
<p>红色的书</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and</p>
<blockquote>
<p>红车</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Is there a difference in meaning depending whether one uses 色的 or not? Is it optional? Are there other qualities besides color for which 的 is sometimes included and sometimes not?</p>

<usage><difference><particles>
How to specify colors etc. attributively
# How to specify colors etc. attributively

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-04-27)

I’ve been using Duolingo and Google Translate (definitely not the most authoritative of sources) and have seen constructs like

> 红色的书

and

> 红车

Is there a difference in meaning depending whether one uses 色的 or not? Is it optional? Are there other qualities besides color for which 的 is sometimes included and sometimes not?

**Tags:** usage, difference, particles


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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2023-04-28. Score: 0 | Accepted answer

Quote:- "...my OP was about whether/when/how 的 must/can/mustn’t appear when adjectives are used attributively"

I am not aware of any strict grammatical rules that you could apply universally and not losing any sleep over it.

As you are aware, Chinese is a highly contextual language.

For example, following on from 红色的书 and 红书, it is semantically correct to say that, without any particular context, they both mean, and ordinarily taken to mean a book that has a red cover.

However, given a certain context, they could diverge or take on significantly differences in meaning.

For example, though 红色的书 could still arguably retain the "red cover" connotation, (the 的 is definitively crucial here), however, 红书 may take on the meaning, or understanding, that the "contents" of the book may contain material which is derivative of or identified with the color red, such as "Leftist" propaganda, or socially irresponsible writings as the color red commonly implies something "inflammatory" or controversial, dangerous in nature, (possibly because it is the color of blood and blood is "seen" when one suffers a bodily injury and bleeds), though the book cover may actually be green in color.

A famous "Little Red Book" containing writings and speeches of Chairman Mao Tse-tung is actually not titled "Little Red Book" in Chinese, but "Quotations from Chairman Mao" (毛主席语录) It is called "Little Red Book" simply because it has a red cover.

Recently there appears a "Little Red Book", known as Xiaohongshu 小红书, and is the Chinese equivalent of Instagram. (<https://walkthechat.com/xiaohongshu-little-red-book-fostering-e-commerce-via-word-mouth/>)

So, sometimes, in fact most times, the 的 makes all the difference and people who either grew up with the language or has studied the language for a while has a better intuitive understanding of its linguistic nuances.

Besides red, the color yellow also has a certain contextual nuance in Chinese cultural understanding. The term "Yellow Culture" is a direct translation of the Chinese phrase "黄色文化", ("Huang Se Wen Hua"), which refers to socially decadent behavior such as gambling, opium-smoking, pornography, prostitution, corruption and nepotism that plagued much of China in centuries past.

In English, we have "purple passage", an elaborate or excessively ornate passage in a literary composition. In other cultures, other colors may have localized, specific cultural connotations.

的 is therefore a fundamental grammatical, syntactical feature of the Chinese language, and which seems to cause the most "problems" to first time learners, possibly because by itself it is actually meaningless and yet it defines the very semantic essence of a sentence.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks @username_1!  One of the hypotheses I’d cooked up was that—as you’ve explained—there can be differences, but (and?) there’s no neat and tidy way to explain them to a non-native speaker. Oh well, that just means I have that much more opportunity to improve my competence in 中文 :-)  

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### Answer by username_2 on 2023-04-27. Score: 1

In Chinese, attributive adjectives are placed before the noun they modify. For example, 红色的书 (red book) and 蓝色的衣服 (blue clothes).

The particle 的 is used to connect the adjective to the noun. It is optional in some cases, such as when the adjective is short and easy to understand. For example, 红书 (red book) and 蓝衣服 (blue clothes) are also correct.

However, it is generally recommended to use 的 in formal writing. It also helps to avoid confusion when the adjective is long or difficult to understand. For example, 深蓝色的衣服 (dark blue clothes) is more clear than 蓝衣服.

Here are some other qualities besides color that can be used attributively:

* Size: 大的房子 (big house)
* Shape: 圆形的桌子 (round table)
* Material: 木制的椅子 (wooden chair)
* Age: 旧的书 (old book)
* Newness: 新的衣服 (new clothes)
* Nationality: 中国国旗 (Chinese flag)
* Profession: 医生的办公室 (doctor's office)
* Religion: 佛教寺庙 (Buddhist temple)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks @username_2. Interesting and helpful. And just to be clear, my OP was about whether/when/how 的 must/can/mustn’t appear when adjectives are used attributively.  

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### Answer by username_3 on 2023-04-27. Score: 0

Question: How do I specify colors? For example, 红色的车 and 红车.

I think it more depends on the custom and practice than the grammar rules. 红色的车 and 红车 mean the same but 红色的车 is more elaborate.

For example, you can say 红色的汽车 in detail or 红车 in short, but you do not want to be in the middle and say 红色车.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks! I also wonder if, by any chance, 红色的 conveys anything along the lines of “of the red variety”?  
> **username_3**: Both 红色的 and 红 can convey “of the red color” or “of the red variety”, it all depends on the perception. It is not because you have the "色的" or not in the sentence.  
> **username_0**: Much obliged. And while I have you (:-), is color the only attribute that works this way, or is it the case that whenever I see “ADJ 的 N” the 的 is optional? Thus for example, either 老人 or 老的人?  
> **username_3**: If you really mean to specify a "red variety", you can have 深红的，浅红的，紫红的，粉红的，枣红的，橘红的， etc.  
> **username_3**: “ADJ 的 N” the 的 is optional? I am not sure about a grammar rule about it. Usually, when the ADJ is a multiple-syllable word, you would like to have the word 的. For example, you may want to say 红色的车 than 红色车.  

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