<p>儿 denotes nominalisation, ie a nominal instance of the preceding character.</p>
<p>A nominal instance of what is already a noun will often imply a diminutive connotation of said noun (eg 猫儿, kitten).</p>
<p>But a nominal instance of a part of speech that's not already a noun will quite simply imply nominalisation. A verb like &quot;eat&quot; (吃) will simply become &quot;food; something to eat&quot; (吃儿). A demonstrative, like 这 in your question, will simply become a locative (ie a <em>noun</em> of location), like &quot;here&quot; (这儿).</p>
<p>The fact that the nominalisation of a demonstrative should be a locative is pretty logical (and lexically apparent in many other languages). If you think about it, the meaning of a demonstrative implies location, because its meaning is &quot;the [thing] <em>that is here/there</em>&quot;. Now, if a demonstrative serves to denote location in a pronominal or attributive sense like that, then it makes sense that the nominalisation of the demonstrative through 儿 will simply denote a nominal instance of that location, ie just &quot;here/there&quot;.</p>
<p>Please note that in dialects of Chinese that do not employ 儿 as a nominaliser in that way, an explicitly locative suffix is used to mean &quot;here/there&quot; (ie 这/那+里). Since the 儿-nominalisation of a demonstrative produces a locative, as I argue above, the two forms (这/那+里 &amp; 这/那+儿) are meaningfully equivalent.</p>

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2022-08-16T07:25:14.817Z
2022-08-16T08:09:48.963Z
2022-08-16T08:09:48.963Z
Sanchuan
<p>The 儿 in 这儿, similar to its presence in some other scenarios like 一份儿菜, or 村儿里， or 我的事儿 etc, is mostly a regional accent related suffix.</p>
<p>In the north of the country, it would be much more common to have the 儿 appended to certain words, but in the south of the country, it's often not used. A very obvious giveaway if someone is from the south / Taiwan region would be when they say 我这里 (often said as Wo-Ze-Li as well). It would be very rare for them saying this in their 普通话 adding a 儿.</p>
<p>To be clear, 儿 serves no grammatical or linguistic purpose in these cases.</p>

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2022-08-16T11:31:15.037Z
Incidentally, if you hear someone say 密码儿 instead of 密码, they are likely from Tianjin. Even old Beijingers wouldn't be saying it like that!
David Min
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2022-08-16T12:45:21.923Z
Like everything sense in grammar,  I should think 儿 serves some kind of linguistic purpose, even if not grammatical. But I for one would say its purpose is grammatical, ie to mark noun status. This is illustrated by the fact that it's appended to nouns rather than verbs (you can say 画画儿, but not 画儿画, because 儿 is there to mark out the noun). You could argue that such a grammatical marker is redundant in Chinese (and in fact it isn't found in most dialects), but some dialects do use it for the grammatical purposes of marking out some nouns, whether for clarity or for a diminuitive effect.
Sanchuan
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2022-08-16T14:16:19.010Z
In your example, the fact that 画画 and 画画儿 has no difference in meaning, and both express exactly the same idea, would lend me to say 儿 indeed has no linguistic purpose. It's also not true that it only applies to nouns - north western dialect could say 紧绷绷的 as 紧绷绷儿的. I would find the idea that different dialects apply different grammatical logic hard to accept.
David Min
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2022-08-16T18:20:11.853Z
儿 may be semantically redundant, but redundant features aren't without purpose or they wouldn't be redundant (ie we wouldn't be able to say that their purpose is served elsewhere in the sentence). Equally, 儿 distribution may be random across the lexicon (and indeed geography) but its emergence must have a functional origin.
Sanchuan
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2022-08-16T18:24:14.280Z
Grammatically, that the 儿 suffix denotes instances of nouns, often or originally in a diminuitive sense, isn't an opinion but an established fact of Chinese grammar, as rightly acknowledged in the premise of the question itself and illustrated in any dictionary as well as in the examples given above. The presence or absence of certain grammatical features across different dialects can hardly be said to affect the overall grammatical logic of the language.
Sanchuan
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2022-08-16T18:31:15.553Z
You raise a good point with 紧绷绷儿的! It may well be that this understanding of 儿 needs reviewing in light of similar exceptions. I'm still unconvinced though, because the exception you give relates to a stative verb, and one used as a reduplicated verbal complement - very far indeed from a "prototypical verb".
Sanchuan
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2022-08-16T18:44:16.463Z
I see that r13, in a different answer to this question, also notes that this type of 儿 is a meaningful suffix as opposed to 儿化. He therefore seems to offer a compromise position between us to the effect that there are two different 儿s. I'm 
not too convinced by this view either, but it's very interesting to note.
Sanchuan
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2022-08-19T20:44:25.357Z
I dunno man, as a native speaker that's my viewpoint, whether 儿 is there or not it makes no difference to me in this context. I don't think any language is a cumulative product of perfectly applied rules, so in my mind "must have function" isn't a given. You may well have a better academic analysis though.
David Min
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2022-08-16T11:29:15.950Z
2022-08-16T11:29:15.950Z
David Min
<p>这儿 =  这里/裡/裏 (here) <a href="https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E8%BF%99%E5%84%BF" rel="nofollow noreferrer">汉典</a></p>
<p>那儿 =  那里/裡/裏 (there) <a href="https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E9%82%A3%E5%84%BF" rel="nofollow noreferrer">汉典</a></p>
<p><strong>Note:</strong></p>
<p>Here, 这儿 &amp; 那儿 are &quot;dialectal sysnonms&quot; of 这里 &amp; 那里. It shouldn't be confused with &quot;儿化&quot; of the word immediately in front of 儿, which mostly occurs in the northern dialects, such as 花ㄦ,草ㄦ,牛ㄦ,羊ㄦ,狗ㄦ. Here, the adding of ㄦ does not change the meaning of the word proceeds it but adds &quot;r&quot; sound to the proceeding word, for instance, 花ㄦ(huar) = 花(hua). <a href="https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%84%A6" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%84%A6</a></p>

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2022-08-16T07:37:54.253Z
It's easy to think that 儿 is just a phonetic reduction of the suffix 里, but I personally believe that to consider the use 儿 as a nominaliser is necessary and sufficient to explain 这/那/哪+儿, especially in the absence of any other lexical example where 里 is pronounced like that. (Can you think of any other instance of the locative suffix 里 reduced to 儿? 家里? 村里? ) The two forms you mention (这儿 = 这里, etc) are simply equivalent because a nominal suffix that turns a demonstrative into a locative will naturally be equivalent to the more standard practice of straight-up using a locative suffix instead.
Sanchuan
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2022-08-16T00:16:27.743Z
2022-08-16T13:32:37.537Z
2022-08-16T13:32:37.537Z
r13
<p>I know 儿 can be a diminutive suffix, and can convey endearment or smallness but when used as a suffix for 这 to change the meaning from ‘this’ to ‘here’ I don’t think this applies. (Same with 那  changing the meaning from ‘that’ to ‘there’.) In this instance, what is the 儿 actually denoting?</p>

<grammar><meaning><meaning-in-context><erhuayin>
Different meanings of ‘儿’
# Different meanings of ‘儿’

(Asked by: username_0 on 2022-08-15)

I know 儿 can be a diminutive suffix, and can convey endearment or smallness but when used as a suffix for 这 to change the meaning from ‘this’ to ‘here’ I don’t think this applies. (Same with 那 changing the meaning from ‘that’ to ‘there’.) In this instance, what is the 儿 actually denoting?

**Tags:** grammar, meaning, meaning-in-context, erhuayin


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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2022-08-16. Score: 2

儿 denotes nominalisation, ie a nominal instance of the preceding character.

A nominal instance of what is already a noun will often imply a diminutive connotation of said noun (eg 猫儿, kitten).

But a nominal instance of a part of speech that's not already a noun will quite simply imply nominalisation. A verb like "eat" (吃) will simply become "food; something to eat" (吃儿). A demonstrative, like 这 in your question, will simply become a locative (ie a *noun* of location), like "here" (这儿).

The fact that the nominalisation of a demonstrative should be a locative is pretty logical (and lexically apparent in many other languages). If you think about it, the meaning of a demonstrative implies location, because its meaning is "the [thing] *that is here/there*". Now, if a demonstrative serves to denote location in a pronominal or attributive sense like that, then it makes sense that the nominalisation of the demonstrative through 儿 will simply denote a nominal instance of that location, ie just "here/there".

Please note that in dialects of Chinese that do not employ 儿 as a nominaliser in that way, an explicitly locative suffix is used to mean "here/there" (ie 这/那+里). Since the 儿-nominalisation of a demonstrative produces a locative, as I argue above, the two forms (这/那+里 & 这/那+儿) are meaningfully equivalent.


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### Answer by username_2 on 2022-08-16. Score: 0

The 儿 in 这儿, similar to its presence in some other scenarios like 一份儿菜, or 村儿里， or 我的事儿 etc, is mostly a regional accent related suffix.

In the north of the country, it would be much more common to have the 儿 appended to certain words, but in the south of the country, it's often not used. A very obvious giveaway if someone is from the south / Taiwan region would be when they say 我这里 (often said as Wo-Ze-Li as well). It would be very rare for them saying this in their 普通话 adding a 儿.

To be clear, 儿 serves no grammatical or linguistic purpose in these cases.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Incidentally, if you hear someone say 密码儿 instead of 密码, they are likely from Tianjin. Even old Beijingers wouldn't be saying it like that!  
> **username_1**: Like everything sense in grammar,  I should think 儿 serves some kind of linguistic purpose, even if not grammatical. But I for one would say its purpose is grammatical, ie to mark noun status. This is illustrated by the fact that it's appended to nouns rather than verbs (you can say 画画儿, but not 画儿画, because 儿 is there to mark out the noun). You could argue that such a grammatical marker is redundant in Chinese (and in fact it isn't found in most dialects), but some dialects do use it for the grammatical purposes of marking out some nouns, whether for clarity or for a diminuitive effect.  
> **username_2**: In your example, the fact that 画画 and 画画儿 has no difference in meaning, and both express exactly the same idea, would lend me to say 儿 indeed has no linguistic purpose. It's also not true that it only applies to nouns - north western dialect could say 紧绷绷的 as 紧绷绷儿的. I would find the idea that different dialects apply different grammatical logic hard to accept.  
> **username_1**: 儿 may be semantically redundant, but redundant features aren't without purpose or they wouldn't be redundant (ie we wouldn't be able to say that their purpose is served elsewhere in the sentence). Equally, 儿 distribution may be random across the lexicon (and indeed geography) but its emergence must have a functional origin.  
> **username_1**: Grammatically, that the 儿 suffix denotes instances of nouns, often or originally in a diminuitive sense, isn't an opinion but an established fact of Chinese grammar, as rightly acknowledged in the premise of the question itself and illustrated in any dictionary as well as in the examples given above. The presence or absence of certain grammatical features across different dialects can hardly be said to affect the overall grammatical logic of the language.  
> **username_1**: You raise a good point with 紧绷绷儿的! It may well be that this understanding of 儿 needs reviewing in light of similar exceptions. I'm still unconvinced though, because the exception you give relates to a stative verb, and one used as a reduplicated verbal complement - very far indeed from a "prototypical verb".  
> **username_1**: I see that r13, in a different answer to this question, also notes that this type of 儿 is a meaningful suffix as opposed to 儿化. He therefore seems to offer a compromise position between us to the effect that there are two different 儿s. I'm  not too convinced by this view either, but it's very interesting to note.  
> **username_2**: I dunno man, as a native speaker that's my viewpoint, whether 儿 is there or not it makes no difference to me in this context. I don't think any language is a cumulative product of perfectly applied rules, so in my mind "must have function" isn't a given. You may well have a better academic analysis though.  

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### Answer by username_3 on 2022-08-16. Score: -1

这儿 = 这里/裡/裏 (here) [汉典](https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E8%BF%99%E5%84%BF)

那儿 = 那里/裡/裏 (there) [汉典](https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E9%82%A3%E5%84%BF)

**Note:**

Here, 这儿 & 那儿 are "dialectal sysnonms" of 这里 & 那里. It shouldn't be confused with "儿化" of the word immediately in front of 儿, which mostly occurs in the northern dialects, such as 花ㄦ,草ㄦ,牛ㄦ,羊ㄦ,狗ㄦ. Here, the adding of ㄦ does not change the meaning of the word proceeds it but adds "r" sound to the proceeding word, for instance, 花ㄦ(huar) = 花(hua). <https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%84%A6>

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: It's easy to think that 儿 is just a phonetic reduction of the suffix 里, but I personally believe that to consider the use 儿 as a nominaliser is necessary and sufficient to explain 这/那/哪+儿, especially in the absence of any other lexical example where 里 is pronounced like that. (Can you think of any other instance of the locative suffix 里 reduced to 儿? 家里? 村里? ) The two forms you mention (这儿 = 这里, etc) are simply equivalent because a nominal suffix that turns a demonstrative into a locative will naturally be equivalent to the more standard practice of straight-up using a locative suffix instead.  

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