<p>I'm afraid that an explanation in any book is probably just speculation. The two characters in question have probably been around as long as Chinese characters themselves.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.chineseetymology.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer">This site</a> (chineseetymology.org) is a very useful resource for tracing the history of Chinese characters. In particular, it appears that both 日 and 月 were sometimes also written without the extra line, as one would expect from a pictogram:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j15800/j15869.gif" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j15800/j15869.gif</a>
<a href="http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j15800/j15887.gif" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j15800/j15887.gif</a></p>

<p><a href="http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j16400/j16449.gif" rel="nofollow noreferrer">with line http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j16400/j16449.gif</a>
<a href="http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j16400/j16459.gif" rel="nofollow noreferrer">without line http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j16400/j16459.gif</a></p>

<p>although 日 without the line is rare. (Check the entries of <a href="http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?submitButton1=Etymology&amp;characterInput=%E6%97%A5" rel="nofollow noreferrer">日</a> and <a href="http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?submitButton1=Etymology&amp;characterInput=%E6%9C%88" rel="nofollow noreferrer">月</a> for many more pictures. The history of these characters starts at least some 3000 years ago with the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone_script" rel="nofollow noreferrer">oracle bone script</a> found at the bottom of the page.)</p>

<p>As for interpreting these pictures, 新漢和大辞典 writes the following</p>

<blockquote>
  <h1>月</h1>  
  
  <p>象形。三日月を描いたもので、まるくえぐったように、中が欠けていく月。<br>
  Pictogram. A drawing of a crescent moon, waning as though being hollowed out.</p>
  
  <h1>日</h1>  
  
  <p>象形。太陽の姿を描いたもの。<br>
  Pictogram. A drawing of the shape of the sun.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>In particular, no word about the line in 日.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-07-16T06:30:39.113Z
In fact, there're concrete and convincing (and authoritative, to some extent) answers to OP's questions in [甲骨文字典](http://images.gg-art.com/dictionary/odindex.php). Let's focus on oracle scripts: 1. the symbol inside the sun is used to distinguish it from other "square or circle"-shaped characters (like 口 and 丁). 2. the stroke inside the moon is to distinguish 月 and 夕. The one with that stroke gradually evolved to two bars (one edge of the moon character plus that stroke).
Stan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-07-16T11:48:51.007Z
@Stan Looking at [甲骨文字 for 口](http://chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=%E5%8F%A3&submitButton1=Etymology), however, I have to say that they don't really look like 日 with the dot removed. The argument is much better for 丁, though.
Earthliŋ
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-07-16T13:09:09.140Z
I understand. J02111 on that webpage is one example. Though most of them had two "antennae" above, considering the characters were carved on bones, it was easy to miss such a detail, so I included 口 besides the much better evidence 丁. BTW I didn't down vote your answer :)
Stan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-07-15T13:36:57.010Z
2014-07-15T14:35:02.597Z
Earthliŋ
<p>I've read an article discussing transition of pictographs for Sun and Moon to hanzi. It raised following questions, but left them unanswered:</p>

<ol>
<li>Original pictographs for Sun is a circle with point in the center. What is the meaning of the point?</li>
<li>There were added two horizontal lines (splitting it approximately in thirds) during the transition of Moon pictograph to hanzi. What is the meaning of those two lines?</li>
</ol>

<p>I've searched through web and I have found some explanations, but they don't seem authoritative enough to me (not to mention doubts I have). For the Sun, the only explanation I've found is that the point means sun spot. As for the Moon, explanation stated that those lines mean cloud covering the Moon.</p>

<p>Could someone give me an explanation or recommend a book covering this problems? </p>

<characters>
日 and 月: Transition from pictographs to hanzi
# 日 and 月: Transition from pictographs to hanzi

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-07-15)

I've read an article discussing transition of pictographs for Sun and Moon to hanzi. It raised following questions, but left them unanswered:

1. Original pictographs for Sun is a circle with point in the center. What is the meaning of the point?
2. There were added two horizontal lines (splitting it approximately in thirds) during the transition of Moon pictograph to hanzi. What is the meaning of those two lines?

I've searched through web and I have found some explanations, but they don't seem authoritative enough to me (not to mention doubts I have). For the Sun, the only explanation I've found is that the point means sun spot. As for the Moon, explanation stated that those lines mean cloud covering the Moon.

Could someone give me an explanation or recommend a book covering this problems?

**Tags:** characters


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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2014-07-15. Score: 4

I'm afraid that an explanation in any book is probably just speculation. The two characters in question have probably been around as long as Chinese characters themselves.

[This site](http://www.chineseetymology.org) (chineseetymology.org) is a very useful resource for tracing the history of Chinese characters. In particular, it appears that both 日 and 月 were sometimes also written without the extra line, as one would expect from a pictogram:

<http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j15800/j15869.gif>
<http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j15800/j15887.gif>

[with line http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j16400/j16449.gif](http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j16400/j16449.gif)
[without line http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j16400/j16459.gif](http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterImages/Oracle/J10000/j16400/j16459.gif)

although 日 without the line is rare. (Check the entries of [日](http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?submitButton1=Etymology&characterInput=%E6%97%A5) and [月](http://www.chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?submitButton1=Etymology&characterInput=%E6%9C%88) for many more pictures. The history of these characters starts at least some 3000 years ago with the [oracle bone script](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone_script) found at the bottom of the page.)

As for interpreting these pictures, 新漢和大辞典 writes the following

> # 月
>
> 象形。三日月を描いたもので、まるくえぐったように、中が欠けていく月。  
> Pictogram. A drawing of a crescent moon, waning as though being hollowed out.
>
> # 日
>
> 象形。太陽の姿を描いたもの。  
> Pictogram. A drawing of the shape of the sun.

In particular, no word about the line in 日.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: In fact, there're concrete and convincing (and authoritative, to some extent) answers to OP's questions in [甲骨文字典](http://images.gg-art.com/dictionary/odindex.php). Let's focus on oracle scripts: 1. the symbol inside the sun is used to distinguish it from other "square or circle"-shaped characters (like 口 and 丁). 2. the stroke inside the moon is to distinguish 月 and 夕. The one with that stroke gradually evolved to two bars (one edge of the moon character plus that stroke).  
> **username_1**: @username_2 Looking at [甲骨文字 for 口](http://chineseetymology.org/CharacterEtymology.aspx?characterInput=%E5%8F%A3&submitButton1=Etymology), however, I have to say that they don't really look like 日 with the dot removed. The argument is much better for 丁, though.  
> **username_2**: I understand. J02111 on that webpage is one example. Though most of them had two "antennae" above, considering the characters were carved on bones, it was easy to miss such a detail, so I included 口 besides the much better evidence 丁. BTW I didn't down vote your answer :)  

---

