<p>the book is "草書禮部韻寳" by emperor 仁宗 of 宋 dynasty. it's for looking up how a chinese character  appears in 草書 (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive_script_(East_Asia)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">cursive script</a>), as you know, ordered according to rime.</p>

<p>well, it's a calligraphy dictionary. you look up a character, see how it's in 草書, nothing more; no explanation, no 反切.</p>

<p>if you're looking for a rime dictionary, you may download all 5 volumes of "鉅宋広韻" (宋版廣韻), from <a href="https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/DAS/pickup/view/category/categoryArchives/0500000000/default/00" rel="nofollow noreferrer">重要文化財（漢書）</a> of the national archives of japan.</p>

<p><a href="https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/DAS/pickup/view/category/categoryArchives/0500000000/0511000000/00" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/DAS/pickup/view/category/categoryArchives/0500000000/0511000000/00</a></p>

<p>edited, info added about how to lookup a character in rime dictionary.</p>

<p>in general, you already know the 聲 (Tone) &amp; 韻 (final) of a character, then you use the rime dictionary for confirmation, or look up characters in the same 韻目 (rhyme groups). if you don't know how to pronounce a particular character, forget it :(</p>

<p>the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_dictionary#Structure" rel="nofollow noreferrer">wiki page</a> explains it:</p>

<pre><code>    the characters were first divided between the four tones 
    Each tone was divided into rhyme groups
</code></pre>

<p>since 平聲 (level tone) has more characters, it's further divided, that there're five group:</p>

<pre><code>    上平聲 upper level tone
    下平聲 lower level tone
    上聲 rising tone
    去聲 departing tone
    入聲 entering tone
</code></pre>

<p>then, each group has several 韻目 (rhyme groups), each group list all relevant characters with the same 韻 (final). </p>

<p>talking about tones &amp; finals, it's easier if you know <strong>cantonese</strong>, one of the dialects which still has 入聲 (entering tone); that, if you know the pronunciation, or, from the end of finals (-p, -t, -k); you know that it's 入聲字, directly.</p>

<p>now, let's try 鬱; in cantonese: <a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E9%AC%B1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">wat1</a>, <a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/wat1.Mp3" rel="nofollow noreferrer">sound file</a></p>

<h1>first, to determine it's in which 聲 (Tone):</h1>

<p>it belongs to 入聲 (entering tone), which is directly by the cantonese pronunciation. or, if i try to write the romanisation, it's "wat", which ends with "t", a second hints of 入聲字.</p>

<h1>secondly, pick up the 5th volume of 鉅宋広韻﹒入聲卷, in the first page, read from rightmost column, from top to bottom; until you find a character sounds similar to 鬱</h1>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/9QP0b.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/9QP0b.jpg" alt="p2"></a></p>

<p>that is, to look for 屋, 沃, 燭, 覺, 質, 術, 櫛, 物 in sequence. then, 物 sounds similar to 鬱. because i know both the cantonese pronunciation, they're similar, if in doubt, the two characters (文弗) above 物 provide <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanqie" rel="nofollow noreferrer">反切</a></p>

<p>it should read as "物﹒文弗切", which means the pronunciation of 物, one can combine the 聲母 (initials) of 文, with the 韻母 (finals) of 弗:</p>

<p>文:  <a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E6%96%87" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><strong>m</strong>an4</a></p>

<p>弗: <a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E5%BC%97" rel="nofollow noreferrer">f<strong>at</strong>1</a></p>

<p>物: <a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E7%89%A9" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><strong>mat</strong>6</a> </p>

<p>弗 is also sounds similar to 鬱, which i've strong confidence that character "鬱" is in 韻目 (rhyme groups) "物"</p>

<h1>now, turn to the page of 物, voila, 鬱 is here :)</h1>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/Yl6no.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/Yl6no.jpg" alt="p13"></a></p>

<p>in mandarin, 鬱 is<a href="http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&amp;searchid=W00000011748" rel="nofollow noreferrer"> yu </a>; without hints of tone; imo, it's very difficult for mandarin speaker to use rime dictionary. you may try it by yourself </p>

<p>have fun :)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-27T00:19:22.800Z
Thanks for the great information! I have a follow-up question... How are the characters arranged /within/ a 韻目? Stroke-number perhaps? - Also, can you recommend a good online Cantonese dictionary?
sazarando
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-27T01:17:04.027Z
no idea :( stroke-number is unlikely, see above picture, 不 is not the first one, though it's 4 strokes only.
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-26T09:14:34.577Z
2016-06-26T12:31:10.617Z
2016-06-26T12:31:10.617Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>I don't understand the basis for the ordering of the Kanji in this dictionary:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p><a href="http://www.wul.waseda.ac.jp/kotenseki/html/ho04/ho04_00717/index.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://www.wul.waseda.ac.jp/kotenseki/html/ho04/ho04_00717/index.html</a></p>
</blockquote>

<p>It seems to be a Rime Dictionary and I found some information on Wikipedia about that <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_dictionary" rel="nofollow noreferrer">here</a>, but I'm not sure how I should go about looking up a given character.</p>

<p>Can someone familiar with Rime Dictionaries help me understand how to find a given character here?</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/XhFyG.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/XhFyG.png" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<characters><dictionary><calligraphy>
How are the Kanji in this Dictionary Ordered?
# How are the Kanji in this Dictionary Ordered?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-06-24)

I don't understand the basis for the ordering of the Kanji in this dictionary:

> <http://www.wul.waseda.ac.jp/kotenseki/html/ho04/ho04_00717/index.html>

It seems to be a Rime Dictionary and I found some information on Wikipedia about that [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_dictionary), but I'm not sure how I should go about looking up a given character.

Can someone familiar with Rime Dictionaries help me understand how to find a given character here?

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/XhFyG.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/XhFyG.png)

**Tags:** characters, dictionary, calligraphy


---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2016-06-26. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

the book is "草書禮部韻寳" by emperor 仁宗 of 宋 dynasty. it's for looking up how a chinese character appears in 草書 ([cursive script](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cursive_script_(East_Asia))), as you know, ordered according to rime.

well, it's a calligraphy dictionary. you look up a character, see how it's in 草書, nothing more; no explanation, no 反切.

if you're looking for a rime dictionary, you may download all 5 volumes of "鉅宋広韻" (宋版廣韻), from [重要文化財（漢書）](https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/DAS/pickup/view/category/categoryArchives/0500000000/default/00) of the national archives of japan.

<https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/DAS/pickup/view/category/categoryArchives/0500000000/0511000000/00>

edited, info added about how to lookup a character in rime dictionary.

in general, you already know the 聲 (Tone) & 韻 (final) of a character, then you use the rime dictionary for confirmation, or look up characters in the same 韻目 (rhyme groups). if you don't know how to pronounce a particular character, forget it :(

the [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_dictionary#Structure) explains it:

```
    the characters were first divided between the four tones 
    Each tone was divided into rhyme groups

```

since 平聲 (level tone) has more characters, it's further divided, that there're five group:

```
    上平聲 upper level tone
    下平聲 lower level tone
    上聲 rising tone
    去聲 departing tone
    入聲 entering tone

```

then, each group has several 韻目 (rhyme groups), each group list all relevant characters with the same 韻 (final).

talking about tones & finals, it's easier if you know **cantonese**, one of the dialects which still has 入聲 (entering tone); that, if you know the pronunciation, or, from the end of finals (-p, -t, -k); you know that it's 入聲字, directly.

now, let's try 鬱; in cantonese: [wat1](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E9%AC%B1), [sound file](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/wat1.Mp3)

# first, to determine it's in which 聲 (Tone):

it belongs to 入聲 (entering tone), which is directly by the cantonese pronunciation. or, if i try to write the romanisation, it's "wat", which ends with "t", a second hints of 入聲字.

# secondly, pick up the 5th volume of 鉅宋広韻﹒入聲卷, in the first page, read from rightmost column, from top to bottom; until you find a character sounds similar to 鬱

[![p2](https://i.sstatic.net/9QP0b.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/9QP0b.jpg)

that is, to look for 屋, 沃, 燭, 覺, 質, 術, 櫛, 物 in sequence. then, 物 sounds similar to 鬱. because i know both the cantonese pronunciation, they're similar, if in doubt, the two characters (文弗) above 物 provide [反切](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanqie)

it should read as "物﹒文弗切", which means the pronunciation of 物, one can combine the 聲母 (initials) of 文, with the 韻母 (finals) of 弗:

文: [**m**an4](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E6%96%87)

弗: [f**at**1](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E5%BC%97)

物: [**mat**6](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E7%89%A9)

弗 is also sounds similar to 鬱, which i've strong confidence that character "鬱" is in 韻目 (rhyme groups) "物"

# now, turn to the page of 物, voila, 鬱 is here :)

[![p13](https://i.sstatic.net/Yl6no.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/Yl6no.jpg)

in mandarin, 鬱 is [yu](http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/cgi-bin/cbdic/gsweb.cgi?o=dcbdic&searchid=W00000011748) ; without hints of tone; imo, it's very difficult for mandarin speaker to use rime dictionary. you may try it by yourself

have fun :)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks for the great information! I have a follow-up question... How are the characters arranged /within/ a 韻目? Stroke-number perhaps? - Also, can you recommend a good online Cantonese dictionary?  
> **username_1**: no idea :( stroke-number is unlikely, see above picture, 不 is not the first one, though it's 4 strokes only.  

---

