<p>The use of 者 as what is called a nominaliser is <a href="https://home.csulb.edu/%7Etxie/360/Etext/Lesson3/L3Grammar.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer">covered as standard</a> in introductory textbooks of Classical Chinese. 者 is thus usually considered very different to 也 in function, and the two are frequently used together <a href="https://press.rebus.community/guwen/chapter/lesson-13/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">almost as if they were a set construction</a> of the form A者B也.</p>
<p>Most relevant to this quote from the Analects 論語: the use of 昔者 and 古者 as <em>time expressions</em> is indeed very similar to 也, as stated in Pulleyblank's <em>Outline of Classical Chinese Grammar</em> (<a href="https://www.google.com/books/edition/Outline_of_Classical_Chinese_Grammar/pM8QiZGImRgC?hl=en&amp;gbpv=1&amp;pg=PA74" rel="nofollow noreferrer">p.74</a>). 今也 and 昔者 seem to be the collocations preferred in the 論語. But other combinations are attested elsewhere.</p>
<p>There is also the use of 也者, which has its own subtleties involving a certain kind of <a href="https://libstore.ugent.be/fulltxt/RUG01/002/862/806/RUG01-002862806_2020_0001_AC.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">'bare' noun or kind-denoting noun phrase</a>, and crops up occasionally in the 論語.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-14T22:45:06.473Z
2023-08-14T22:45:06.473Z
Michaelyus
<blockquote>
<p>Are they fully interchangeable, from a grammatical perspective?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>fully? <strong>no</strong> lah. only in some occasions, “者” could be read as “也”</p>
<p>the quoted texts in the question, if one change “者” to “也”, or vice versa; the texts need to rewrite, slightly, imo</p>
<p>for particles usages in classical chinese, two books are helpful:</p>
<p><a href="https://archive.org/search?query=%E7%B6%93%E5%82%B3%E9%87%8B%E8%A9%9E&amp;sort=creator&amp;and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22&amp;not%5B%5D=collection%3A%22booksbylanguage%22" rel="nofollow noreferrer">經傳釋詞</a> by 王引之</p>
<p>經詞衍釋 by 吳昌瑩</p>
<p>in 經傳釋詞 卷九, mentioned:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>者</strong>・猶<strong>也</strong>也</p>
</blockquote>
<p>roughly means: [the particle] “者” [could be read] as “也” [in some occasions]</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/iIEub.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/iIEub.jpg" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p>in 經傳釋詞 卷四, mentioned:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>也・所以窮上成文也</p>
</blockquote>
<p>roughly means: [the particle] “也”, is for ending preceding [text] (窮上), [and then] becoming [following] text (成文)</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/AkZbY.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/AkZbY.jpg" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p>have fun :)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-15T02:44:27.843Z
2023-08-15T02:44:27.843Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>Not that simple, both 也 and 者 can mean a host of different things in classical Chinese, depending on the context.</p>
<p>也 can be a filler (can be eliminated without loss in meaning), thus, etc. Examples: 故天降大任於斯人也；兵者，詭道也</p>
<p>者 can mean this, that, it, he, etc. Examples: 醫者父母心；昔有吳起者，母歿喪不臨</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-15T05:19:41.420Z
2023-08-15T05:19:41.420Z
fat penguin
<p>&quot;也&quot;, when used at the end of a sentence, equals to “啊” or “呀”.</p>
<p>&quot;者&quot; substitutes &quot;person(人)&quot;, &quot;thing/matter(事/物), and time(时) when combined with another word (noun, verb, adjective) to form a phrase.</p>
<ul>
<li>昔者 = 昔时 = 昔日 = 過去 = 從前. &quot;昔者吾友...&quot; - &quot;從前的老朋友...&quot;</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-14T22:21:28.713Z
2023-08-14T22:21:28.713Z
r13
<blockquote>
<p>民之欲富貴也，共闔棺而後止。</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>曾子曰：「以能問於不能，以多問於寡；有若無，實若虛，犯而不校，昔者吾友嘗從事於斯矣。」</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The first text uses 也 as a topic marker, and the second text uses 者 in the same way. What are the differences between these two? Are they fully interchangeable, from a grammatical perspective?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-14T21:42:51.633Z
I think you are interested in knowing the difference between 也 and 矣. Please confirm.
r13
<classical-chinese>
Difference between 也 and 者 as topic markers in Classical Chinese
# Difference between 也 and 者 as topic markers in Classical Chinese

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-08-14)

> 民之欲富貴也，共闔棺而後止。

> 曾子曰：「以能問於不能，以多問於寡；有若無，實若虛，犯而不校，昔者吾友嘗從事於斯矣。」

The first text uses 也 as a topic marker, and the second text uses 者 in the same way. What are the differences between these two? Are they fully interchangeable, from a grammatical perspective?

**Tags:** classical-chinese

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I think you are interested in knowing the difference between 也 and 矣. Please confirm.  

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## 4 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2023-08-14. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

The use of 者 as what is called a nominaliser is [covered as standard](https://home.csulb.edu/%7Etxie/360/Etext/Lesson3/L3Grammar.htm) in introductory textbooks of Classical Chinese. 者 is thus usually considered very different to 也 in function, and the two are frequently used together [almost as if they were a set construction](https://press.rebus.community/guwen/chapter/lesson-13/) of the form A者B也.

Most relevant to this quote from the Analects 論語: the use of 昔者 and 古者 as *time expressions* is indeed very similar to 也, as stated in Pulleyblank's *Outline of Classical Chinese Grammar* ([p.74](https://www.google.com/books/edition/Outline_of_Classical_Chinese_Grammar/pM8QiZGImRgC?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA74)). 今也 and 昔者 seem to be the collocations preferred in the 論語. But other combinations are attested elsewhere.

There is also the use of 也者, which has its own subtleties involving a certain kind of ['bare' noun or kind-denoting noun phrase](https://libstore.ugent.be/fulltxt/RUG01/002/862/806/RUG01-002862806_2020_0001_AC.pdf), and crops up occasionally in the 論語.


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### Answer by username_3 on 2023-08-15. Score: 0

> Are they fully interchangeable, from a grammatical perspective?

fully? **no** lah. only in some occasions, “者” could be read as “也”

the quoted texts in the question, if one change “者” to “也”, or vice versa; the texts need to rewrite, slightly, imo

for particles usages in classical chinese, two books are helpful:

[經傳釋詞](https://archive.org/search?query=%E7%B6%93%E5%82%B3%E9%87%8B%E8%A9%9E&sort=creator&and%5B%5D=mediatype%3A%22texts%22&not%5B%5D=collection%3A%22booksbylanguage%22) by 王引之

經詞衍釋 by 吳昌瑩

in 經傳釋詞 卷九, mentioned:

> **者**・猶**也**也

roughly means: [the particle] “者” [could be read] as “也” [in some occasions]

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/iIEub.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/iIEub.jpg)

in 經傳釋詞 卷四, mentioned:

> 也・所以窮上成文也

roughly means: [the particle] “也”, is for ending preceding [text] (窮上), [and then] becoming [following] text (成文)

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/AkZbY.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/AkZbY.jpg)

have fun :)


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### Answer by username_4 on 2023-08-15. Score: 0

Not that simple, both 也 and 者 can mean a host of different things in classical Chinese, depending on the context.

也 can be a filler (can be eliminated without loss in meaning), thus, etc. Examples: 故天降大任於斯人也；兵者，詭道也

者 can mean this, that, it, he, etc. Examples: 醫者父母心；昔有吳起者，母歿喪不臨


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### Answer by username_1 on 2023-08-14. Score: 0

"也", when used at the end of a sentence, equals to “啊” or “呀”.

"者" substitutes "person(人)", "thing/matter(事/物), and time(时) when combined with another word (noun, verb, adjective) to form a phrase.

* 昔者 = 昔时 = 昔日 = 過去 = 從前. "昔者吾友..." - "從前的老朋友..."


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