<p>Converting @user3306356's <a href="https://i.sstatic.net/EWdF5.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer">comments</a> into an answer here.</p>

<p>One possibility is <code>摎 | lau</code>. This is reported by <a href="https://www.moedict.tw/:%E6%91%8E" rel="nofollow noreferrer">moedict</a> and <a href="http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/hakyin/detail.php?hoan=19744&amp;mode=1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Minhakka</a> as only 和/跟, but maybe it can be used (@user…) seems to think so) the way I asked for. He reported the following examples:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>工人用石鏨摎字刻在石碑頂。<br>
  Kung-nyin yung shȧk-tshàm lau sìi khat tshoi shȧk-pi tang.<br>
  工人用鑿石的工具把字刻在石碑上。<br>
  Workers carve characters on steles with carving tools.</p>
  
  <p>今晡日下班以前，一定愛摎天光日開會个資料準備好勢。<br>
  Kim-pu-nyit hà-pan yi-tshiên, yit-thin òi lau thien-kwong-nyit khoi-fù kài tsii-liàu cún-phì háu-shè.<br>
  今天下班以前，一定要把明天開會的資料準備好。<br>
  Before I stop working today, I will surely prepare the resources with which I'll attend a meeting tomorrow.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>This use is confirmed by both the above-mentioned dictionaries for his "better bet" <code>將 | tsiong</code>, which is used this way in Mandarin too.</p>

<p>I will ask confirmation from Hakka speakers on the Facebook group Hakka Verse about these usages.</p>

<p><strong>Update</strong></p>

<p>@user... commented on this answer with <a href="https://www.moedict.tw/:%E7%9F%B3%E9%8F%A8" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this</a>, which has one of his example. Weird that the same dictionary giving this as an example for another word fails to mention the usage of <code>lau</code> in said example in the article about <code>lau</code>. Anyways, I guess that is confirmation of the usage. Hakka Verse hasn't responded yet.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T16:47:31.147Z
@user3306356 Here is my answer. Just one thing: I believe you made a small character error in using 項 for "tang" whereas it should be 頂. After all, a character meaning "top" (the latter) suits "above" more than one meaning "neck", right :)?
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T20:26:16.023Z
I just copy-and-pasted, bro, https://www.moedict.tw/:%E7%9F%B3%E9%8F%A8
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T20:28:55.577Z
@user3306356 Well, their bad then :). Also, it is weird that they have this example and _not_ document the usage of `lau` said example makes.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-06T23:40:08.633Z
項 is not a mistake. 項 can mean 上 in Hakka.
justinrleung
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-06T23:59:58.530Z
@justinrleung I know there is a word "tang" which means shàng in Hakka, I'm just arguing it should be spelled 頂 rather than 項, on the grounds that the former character means "top" and the latter means "neck", so to spell an equivalent of shàng the best choice is "top" and not "neck". Do you have any arguments going in the other direction, except for widespread usage (if that's a thing)?
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-07T00:05:15.567Z
@MickG Both 頂 (táng) and 項 (hong) are used in Hakka. See moedict. The former means "above; on top", while the latter means "on".
justinrleung
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-07T00:27:36.863Z
@MickG Also see an example in the Hakka Bible (Matthew 10:14): 該毋歡迎你等、毋聽你等話个家庭抑係城市，你等就離開該位，將腳項个泥粉蹬掉。 Ke m̀ fôn-ngiàng ngì-têu, m̀ thâng ngì-têu fa ke kâ-thìn ya-he sàng-sṳ, ngì-têu chhiu lì-khôi ke-vi, chiông kiok-hong ke nài-fún tém-thet.
justinrleung
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-07T08:00:26.480Z
@justinrleung "That house or town which doth not welcome you and doth not listen to your words, ye leave it, and shake off the dust on your shoes" (lit. on your feet). Shouldn't that be ngi-ten? I see it's spelt with等, so between the two plural markers ten and teu I'd expect it to be the former... In any case that surely proves there are two words for shàng in Hakka: tang and hong. A character meaning "neck" may indeed shift to "top" in meaning. There might still be a better alternative, but whatever.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-07T08:03:51.550Z
It’s would be 你兜 using the Taiwanese recommended characters, but the Taiwanese Hakka Bible uses the character 等 for têu.
justinrleung
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-07T08:19:20.483Z
minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw doesn't have hong. hakka.dict.edu.tw has your character with sense 3 "用以指某部位之中或之上". That's it.
MickG
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-16T15:45:24.410Z
every use of `lau` i've heard so far mirrors mandarin 跟 or 幫 though
iamanigeeit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T15:49:55.970Z
2017-10-01T20:30:43.157Z
2017-10-01T20:30:43.157Z
MickG
<p>I was wondering if there is any Hakka word that functions the same as Mandarin 把, that is, marks the direct object when it is placed before a verb. For example:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>我把我的电脑放在桌子上了。</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Hakka:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>涯__涯个电脑放在桌上忒<br>
  Ngâi __ ngâi kài thiàn-náu piòng tshoi tsok shòng thet.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Note: The romanization system is my version of Phak-fa-sii, meaning that, w.r.t that system:</p>

<ol>
<li>I write "ch" and "chh" as "c" and "ch" respectively;</li>
<li>I switch the uninputable u with umlaut below with "ii", which I can input;</li>
<li>I replace the uninputable vertical line above with a dot above, which I can input.</li>
</ol>

<p>The spelling rules are described <a href="http://michelegorini.blogspot.com/2017/08/on-my-spelling-and-transliteration-of.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">here</a>.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T13:34:50.447Z
maybe 摎 ? not sure tho
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T13:46:09.480Z
https://www.moedict.tw/:%E6%91%8E
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T14:05:20.127Z
@user3306356 It seems you are mentioning [this](http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/hakyin/detail.php?hoan=19744&mode=1). However, this seems to be 和 or 跟, not 把.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T14:08:39.633Z
The link in my comment also mentions [`vo`](http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/hakyin/detail.php?hoan=54205&mode=1), which is explicitly glossed as 和, and a `kwá` I cannot find with that tone. It is probably [this `kwà`](http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/hakyin/detail.php?hoan=17777&mode=1).
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T14:15:05.650Z
Here's an example: mandarin: 工人用石鏨摎字刻在石碑項。translation: 工人用鑿石的工具把字刻在石碑上。
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T14:16:12.923Z
將 is probably a better bet tho
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T14:17:07.480Z
another example: 今晡日下班以前，一定愛摎天光日開會个資料準備好勢。
translation: 今天下班以前，一定要把明天開會的資料準備好。
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T14:21:33.580Z
@user3306356 Could you convert that into ans answer? The dictionaries do not seem to confirm this usage of 摎. The one you mentioned does confirm this usage for 將 though. I suggest you put them both, with 將 for sure and 摎 as possible, and then I will ask on a Hakka group for confirmation about the latter.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-01T14:43:25.937Z
I feel like I'm just kind of spitballing here...you can feel free to turn it into an answer yourself too...
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-06T20:49:25.297Z
side note: I don't think 忒 is right here. In Sixian Hakka, your example would be translated as 摎个電腦放在桌項了 ngài lâu ngài ke thian-nó piong tshai chok-hong lé.
justinrleung
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-06T21:38:45.500Z
@justinrleung I think I saw 忒 as a perfect tense marker in a Hakka sentence somewhere in Hakka Verse or another Facebook Hakka group, which is why I used it there. I also know of a perfect marker `li` which happens e.g. in [this song](http://michelegorini.blogspot.it/2017/08/yet-more-heartache.html), whose lyrics were written by an Indonesian Hakka speaker, the Youtuber Mirvin Lin (Hakka name Lim Po-min | 林保明). I guess that "li" is sort-of the Indo Hakka (more precisely Anton Xie says it's Hoi-liuk-fung Hakka) equivalent of "le". I may be wrong on the usage of "thet" though.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-06T21:43:44.130Z
AFAIK, 忒 is more of an equivalent to 掉 or 完, not 了.
justinrleung
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-06T21:44:24.153Z
As an example of "thet" used in seemingly the way I say above, see "nyit-theu lok-san tiam siong to nyi" [here](http://michelegorini.blogspot.it/2017/08/all-chinese-songs-i-have-met.html#FCunNyittheu) (singable translation coming up soon on that blog of mine), where we have "Tso-mai an mo liong-sim / Piong-thet ngai tsit-ka li", i.e. "Why did you very cruelly / Leave me here?".

UPDATE I may be misinterpreting that "thet" in the example. 放掉 also seems to fit that sentence.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-12-06T23:34:14.040Z
@justinrleung I was just told "thet" is "sameas Japanese [te shimau](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%81%A6%E3%81%97%E3%81%BE%E3%81%86)". So it is a perfect marked, but with a negative nuance that does indeed not fit my example. But I'm too lazy to edit it out :).
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-02-07T07:35:40.350Z
I tend to avoid this sentence construction as it does not appear natural in my immediate speech :-)
anaximus
<grammar><word-requests><topolect><hakka>
Hakka equivalent of 把
# Hakka equivalent of 把

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-10-01)

I was wondering if there is any Hakka word that functions the same as Mandarin 把, that is, marks the direct object when it is placed before a verb. For example:

> 我把我的电脑放在桌子上了。

Hakka:

> 涯\_\_涯个电脑放在桌上忒  
> Ngâi \_\_ ngâi kài thiàn-náu piòng tshoi tsok shòng thet.

Note: The romanization system is my version of Phak-fa-sii, meaning that, w.r.t that system:

1. I write "ch" and "chh" as "c" and "ch" respectively;
2. I switch the uninputable u with umlaut below with "ii", which I can input;
3. I replace the uninputable vertical line above with a dot above, which I can input.

The spelling rules are described [here](http://michelegorini.blogspot.com/2017/08/on-my-spelling-and-transliteration-of.html).

**Tags:** grammar, word-requests, topolect, hakka

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: maybe 摎 ? not sure tho  
> **username_1**: https://www.moedict.tw/:%E6%91%8E  
> **username_0**: @user3306356 It seems you are mentioning [this](http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/hakyin/detail.php?hoan=19744&mode=1). However, this seems to be 和 or 跟, not 把.  
> **username_0**: The link in my comment also mentions [`vo`](http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/hakyin/detail.php?hoan=54205&mode=1), which is explicitly glossed as 和, and a `kwá` I cannot find with that tone. It is probably [this `kwà`](http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/hakyin/detail.php?hoan=17777&mode=1).  
> **username_1**: Here's an example: mandarin: 工人用石鏨摎字刻在石碑項。translation: 工人用鑿石的工具把字刻在石碑上。  
> **username_1**: 將 is probably a better bet tho  
> **username_1**: another example: 今晡日下班以前，一定愛摎天光日開會个資料準備好勢。 translation: 今天下班以前，一定要把明天開會的資料準備好。  
> **username_0**: @user3306356 Could you convert that into ans answer? The dictionaries do not seem to confirm this usage of 摎. The one you mentioned does confirm this usage for 將 though. I suggest you put them both, with 將 for sure and 摎 as possible, and then I will ask on a Hakka group for confirmation about the latter.  
> **username_1**: I feel like I'm just kind of spitballing here...you can feel free to turn it into an answer yourself too...  
> **username_2**: side note: I don't think 忒 is right here. In Sixian Hakka, your example would be translated as 摎个電腦放在桌項了 ngài lâu ngài ke thian-nó piong tshai chok-hong lé.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 I think I saw 忒 as a perfect tense marker in a Hakka sentence somewhere in Hakka Verse or another Facebook Hakka group, which is why I used it there. I also know of a perfect marker `li` which happens e.g. in [this song](http://michelegorini.blogspot.it/2017/08/yet-more-heartache.html), whose lyrics were written by an Indonesian Hakka speaker, the Youtuber Mirvin Lin (Hakka name Lim Po-min | 林保明). I guess that "li" is sort-of the Indo Hakka (more precisely Anton Xie says it's Hoi-liuk-fung Hakka) equivalent of "le". I may be wrong on the usage of "thet" though.  
> **username_2**: AFAIK, 忒 is more of an equivalent to 掉 or 完, not 了.  
> **username_0**: As an example of "thet" used in seemingly the way I say above, see "nyit-theu lok-san tiam siong to nyi" [here](http://michelegorini.blogspot.it/2017/08/all-chinese-songs-i-have-met.html#FCunNyittheu) (singable translation coming up soon on that blog of mine), where we have "Tso-mai an mo liong-sim / Piong-thet ngai tsit-ka li", i.e. "Why did you very cruelly / Leave me here?".  UPDATE I may be misinterpreting that "thet" in the example. 放掉 also seems to fit that sentence.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 I was just told "thet" is "sameas Japanese [te shimau](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%81%A6%E3%81%97%E3%81%BE%E3%81%86)". So it is a perfect marked, but with a negative nuance that does indeed not fit my example. But I'm too lazy to edit it out :).  
> **username_3**: I tend to avoid this sentence construction as it does not appear natural in my immediate speech :-)  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_0 on 2017-10-01. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

Converting @user3306356's [comments](https://i.sstatic.net/EWdF5.png) into an answer here.

One possibility is `摎 | lau`. This is reported by [moedict](https://www.moedict.tw/:%E6%91%8E) and [Minhakka](http://minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw/bkg/hakyin/detail.php?hoan=19744&mode=1) as only 和/跟, but maybe it can be used (@user…) seems to think so) the way I asked for. He reported the following examples:

> 工人用石鏨摎字刻在石碑頂。  
> Kung-nyin yung shȧk-tshàm lau sìi khat tshoi shȧk-pi tang.  
> 工人用鑿石的工具把字刻在石碑上。  
> Workers carve characters on steles with carving tools.
>
> 今晡日下班以前，一定愛摎天光日開會个資料準備好勢。  
> Kim-pu-nyit hà-pan yi-tshiên, yit-thin òi lau thien-kwong-nyit khoi-fù kài tsii-liàu cún-phì háu-shè.  
> 今天下班以前，一定要把明天開會的資料準備好。  
> Before I stop working today, I will surely prepare the resources with which I'll attend a meeting tomorrow.

This use is confirmed by both the above-mentioned dictionaries for his "better bet" `將 | tsiong`, which is used this way in Mandarin too.

I will ask confirmation from Hakka speakers on the Facebook group Hakka Verse about these usages.

**Update**

@user... commented on this answer with [this](https://www.moedict.tw/:%E7%9F%B3%E9%8F%A8), which has one of his example. Weird that the same dictionary giving this as an example for another word fails to mention the usage of `lau` in said example in the article about `lau`. Anyways, I guess that is confirmation of the usage. Hakka Verse hasn't responded yet.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: @user3306356 Here is my answer. Just one thing: I believe you made a small character error in using 項 for "tang" whereas it should be 頂. After all, a character meaning "top" (the latter) suits "above" more than one meaning "neck", right :)?  
> **username_1**: I just copy-and-pasted, bro, https://www.moedict.tw/:%E7%9F%B3%E9%8F%A8  
> **username_0**: @user3306356 Well, their bad then :). Also, it is weird that they have this example and _not_ document the usage of `lau` said example makes.  
> **username_2**: 項 is not a mistake. 項 can mean 上 in Hakka.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 I know there is a word "tang" which means shàng in Hakka, I'm just arguing it should be spelled 頂 rather than 項, on the grounds that the former character means "top" and the latter means "neck", so to spell an equivalent of shàng the best choice is "top" and not "neck". Do you have any arguments going in the other direction, except for widespread usage (if that's a thing)?  
> **username_2**: @username_0 Both 頂 (táng) and 項 (hong) are used in Hakka. See moedict. The former means "above; on top", while the latter means "on".  
> **username_2**: @username_0 Also see an example in the Hakka Bible (Matthew 10:14): 該毋歡迎你等、毋聽你等話个家庭抑係城市，你等就離開該位，將腳項个泥粉蹬掉。 Ke m̀ fôn-ngiàng ngì-têu, m̀ thâng ngì-têu fa ke kâ-thìn ya-he sàng-sṳ, ngì-têu chhiu lì-khôi ke-vi, chiông kiok-hong ke nài-fún tém-thet.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 "That house or town which doth not welcome you and doth not listen to your words, ye leave it, and shake off the dust on your shoes" (lit. on your feet). Shouldn't that be ngi-ten? I see it's spelt with等, so between the two plural markers ten and teu I'd expect it to be the former... In any case that surely proves there are two words for shàng in Hakka: tang and hong. A character meaning "neck" may indeed shift to "top" in meaning. There might still be a better alternative, but whatever.  
> **username_2**: It’s would be 你兜 using the Taiwanese recommended characters, but the Taiwanese Hakka Bible uses the character 等 for têu.  
> **username_0**: minhakka.ling.sinica.edu.tw doesn't have hong. hakka.dict.edu.tw has your character with sense 3 "用以指某部位之中或之上". That's it.  
> **username_4**: every use of `lau` i've heard so far mirrors mandarin 跟 or 幫 though  

---

