<p>I am from Taiwan, and 閩南語 is one of my mother language.
I think "na tang"(那通) is simplified from "na e dang"(怎麼可以).
The translation of“那通失去希望 每日醉茫茫” should be
"How can you get drunk all the day after losing a hope."
I found a blog which explains this song clearly, though it was written in Chinese.
<a href="http://blog.sina.cn/dpool/blog/s/blog_4e97365d0100b7c1.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://blog.sina.cn/dpool/blog/s/blog_4e97365d0100b7c1.html</a></p>

<p>I am curious why you don't ask the translation of 照起工來行...
It is so strange.
Give you a reference: <a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://twblg.dict.edu.tw/holodict_new/iongji/pdf/annesia311pdf.pdf&amp;gws_rd=cr&amp;dcr=0&amp;ei=3ZLSWbfqI4TO0gS9jquQAg" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://twblg.dict.edu.tw/holodict_new/iongji/pdf/annesia311pdf.pdf&amp;gws_rd=cr&amp;dcr=0&amp;ei=3ZLSWbfqI4TO0gS9jquQAg</a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T19:31:02.867Z
So the "na" would be a contraction of 哪会 | ná ē, the "dang" should be spelt 当 as in 會當 | ē-tàng (=kêyí), and the whole thing is essentially the same as 哪会 | 哪會 | ná ē (cfr. my dictionary), correct? Let me just listen to that part of the song looking out for an aspiration on the "tang" part...
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T19:35:33.413Z
No aspirationn that I can hear, so nothing to deny your hypothesis.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T19:36:36.527Z
I didb't ask for that translation because it seemed to me that the dictionary I had was enough. I will have a look at your references anyway. The second one appears to have something to do with my dictionary though.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T19:36:49.710Z
I don't know how to spell 閩南話.
Yvonne
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T19:38:31.430Z
"na e " is a little different from "na e dang".
Yvonne
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T19:47:20.230Z
I was so careless to press wrong button again. "e dang" 可以 has "permit " meaning. "Gam e dang " is asking a person to allow or to do something.
Yvonne
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T19:49:10.470Z
But I heard the aspiration "na tang"
Yvonne
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T20:17:04.580Z
According to my dictionary, "ē-tàng" (會當) also has a meaning of 能夠、做得到.

Let me read that blog.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T20:20:42.857Z
«“那通失去希望”，单独的“那”（发音“哪”），表达“若”、“如果”等虚词意义；“通”，读音“tan”，“通豁”（tan_ho）的省略说法，意思是“可以”，“那通”两字就解作“若可以”。如把“那”按字面解作“这、那”的“那”，“那通”意思就是“那么就会”。有的闽南语地区，把“那通”视为一个词，解作“怎么可以”，这样解似乎更贴切。». Wow that's confusing :). But in the end, it does suggest the meaning you are suggesting. BUt if it _is_ a contraction of "ná ē-tàng", then there should be no aspiration on the last syllable (note that Tai-lo, the romaniation system I'm using, uses "t" for unaspirated and "th" for aspirated), yet you say you hear an aspiration…
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T20:24:02.943Z
I can't seem to find that blog's 通豁 on my dictionary… do you know that word?
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T20:33:05.827Z
As for 总嘛要照起工来行, I have: 1) 总 = 都; 2) 嘛 = 也; 3) 爱 (misspelt as 要) = 要; 4) 照起工 = «按部就班，照規矩制度來行事» (says dictionary); 5) 来 = 来; 6) 行 = 走, so I get the translation in the question. The blog discards it as "not agreeing with the song's style", but then proposes another possible interpretation without discarding it, 踏踏实实, going on continuously.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T20:36:55.243Z
I guess "according to prescribed order" with respect to "good luck and bad luck" is pretty much the same as "firmly come and go", "steadily come and go".<br>
<br>
Anyways this is veering off-topic from the question.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-04T12:40:18.673Z
Try to look on your dictionary with 通好 instead of 通豁. Press here to listen to the pronunciation : https://itaigi.tw/k/可以
Yvonne
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-04T14:52:43.837Z
Still «無資料，系統已經自動記錄», both with option 词目音读 and with option 对应华语. I'll get to listening in a while.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-04T15:39:57.737Z
My dictionary does not seem to have a thang-hó matchig your pronunciation reference. It does have 會得通 though, AND report that 通 | thang can mean kêyî, so we have an explanation, without even needing to assume a contraction. I guess that is it.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-04T15:41:23.213Z
The spelling should then be 哪通, first charavter for "how", second character for "thang" as documented above, Tai-lo "ná thang".
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-04T18:39:21.037Z
Note that, from what I have seen in the dictionary, I conclude that "ē-tàng" and "thang" are two distinct words, both meaning kêyî. So you should probably update your answer.
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-06T19:22:49.583Z
I just looked up "tiu-tshau-lang" (aka "daocaoren") in [Wiktionary](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%A8%BB%E8%8D%89%E4%BA%BA) to see what the "dao" character meant, and surprise surprise, guess what usage example they have :). And they confirm your "I think".
MickG
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-11-09T09:33:20.123Z
Oh~It's unbelievable! I didn't look this webpage before.
Yvonne
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-02T19:20:34.530Z
2017-10-02T19:31:48.333Z
2017-10-02T19:31:48.333Z
Yvonne
<p>This is one of my favorite Hokkien karaoke songs which I've been singing for the last 15 years at least. And I didn't know so much could be seen or argued about in 那通失去希望, 每日醉茫茫. While not getting into the argument, (as I am only a Hakka who loves to sing Hokkien songs), here's one person's English translation, (with certain parts more of a paraphrase, as in "the memory of going through...") Take it for what's worth, and hopefully helpful for Chinese language learners as well. </p>

<p><a href="https://youtu.be/S0rIg45lGpk" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://youtu.be/S0rIg45lGpk</a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-05-06T04:15:06.453Z
2020-05-06T04:15:06.453Z
Wayne Cheah
<p>I prefer writing na-thang as 若通, which is hard to translate in English. It is a conditional "why...", "how can...", in contrast to e-thang 會通 "can". </p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-16T13:33:43.203Z
2020-03-16T13:33:43.203Z
iamanigeeit
<p>Here are the full lyrics of the song in the title as found <a href="http://peachberries.com/blog/%E7%88%B1%E6%8B%BC%E6%89%8D%E4%BC%9A%E8%B5%A2-with-hokkien-lyrics-and-translation/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">here</a>, where a video is also found:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>一时失志不免怨叹<br>
  一时落魄不免胆寒<br>
  那通失去希望<br>
  每日醉茫茫<br>
  无魂有体亲像稻草人<br>
  <br>
  人生可比是海上的波浪<br>
  有时起  有时落<br>
  好运 歹运 总嘛要照起工来行<br>
  三分天注定 七分靠打拼<br>
  爱拼才会赢</p>
</blockquote>

<p>And here is my translation attempt:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>If you're disappointed for a moment, don't grumble and grudge<br>
  If you're panick-stricken for a moment, don't stay struck with terror<br>
  [Na-thang] lose hope<br>
  Be drunk every day<br>
  Have a body but not a soul, like a scarecrow<br>
  <br>
  Life is like the waves of the sea:<br>
  Sometimes it raises, &nbsp;&nbsp; sometimes it falls<br>
  Good luck &nbsp; bad luck &nbsp;&nbsp; will all pass as destined<br>
  3 parts are decided by heaven &nbsp;&nbsp; 7 parts rely on [your] fighting<br>
  [You] should fight, only then will you win</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Actually, I have two questions:</p>

<ol>
<li>What does that "na-thang" mean and how should it be spelt? The translation in the link, "Going through times without hope, we may drown our sorrow in liquor" doesn't convince me, because it seems to suggest 通 means "go through", which is not documented in <a href="http://twblg.dict.edu.tw" rel="nofollow noreferrer">my Min reference</a>, and it has a "may" that is nowhere to be found in the following line; one suggestion it gives is to write "na" with 若, and take it as "if"; on that lead, I would guess 若通 is a word for "if", like 若準 | nā-tsún, but this is not recorded in my reference; another track might be to interpret 通 as a classifier of occasions or time, something like 次 or 时, and read this as «In such times you lose hope, etc», or interpret 失去希望 as what the classifier is classifying, and read this as «In those times of losing hope / You get drunk every day / …»; which of the three guesses is correct? Or is it none of them? And in this case, what is the correct interpretation and spelling of the line?</li>
<li>I am guessing 醉茫茫 is just a way to intensify 醉, something like "dead drunk" or "drunk-ass" in English; is this correct?</li>
</ol>

<p>UPDATE</p>

<p>From my source, entry on 茫:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>形容人神智不清的狀態。例：袂曉啉酒閣啉並濟的，這馬咧茫矣乎？Bē-hiáu lim-tsiú koh lim phīng tsē--ê, tsit-má teh bâng--ah--honnh? (不會喝酒還喝那麼多，這下子可喝醉了吧？)；醉茫茫　tsuì-bâng-bâng(醉得神智不清)。</p>
</blockquote>

<p>So 茫 is essentially a synonym of 醉, and 醉茫茫 means exactly what I thought (醉得神智不清: drunk to the point that the mind isn't well-functioning, lit. "clear").</p>

<p>So question 2 is solved, and only question 1 remains.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-09T05:50:28.807Z
You should not translate the Min dialect by the Mandarin's rule. I don't know much more about Min language, but I know a little from Jay Chou's lyrics. e.g. 亲像稻草人 means 就像稻草人. The lyrics written in Min language usually use phonogram characters, or the meaning in their own language.
xenophōn
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-16T13:41:21.757Z
Also, phai should be 否 and phah 拍, but 歹 and 打 are popular misspellings. And in the 人生 line, i've always heard ko and not kho, and i ended up spelling it as 人生故(必/比)是海上的波浪 which fits better: "(whatever happens), life is still like the ocean waves"
iamanigeeit
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-16T13:47:15.747Z
@iamanigeeit I believe I was just copying the captions. That said, I think MoE would disagree on 否, given the 台湾闽南语常用词辞典 gives only phí and hónn for that character.
MickG
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-03-16T13:58:28.487Z
I understand, and most Hokkien song captions have wrong spellings because they use whatever the audience would be happy with, not the most etymologically accurate. As for 否, see https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%90%A6#Pronunciation_2 -- d/t/th do not evolve into p/ph...
iamanigeeit
<meaning><topolect><hokkien>
About a line in 爱拼才会赢
# About a line in 爱拼才会赢

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-10-02)

Here are the full lyrics of the song in the title as found [here](http://peachberries.com/blog/%E7%88%B1%E6%8B%BC%E6%89%8D%E4%BC%9A%E8%B5%A2-with-hokkien-lyrics-and-translation/), where a video is also found:

> 一时失志不免怨叹  
> 一时落魄不免胆寒  
> 那通失去希望  
> 每日醉茫茫  
> 无魂有体亲像稻草人  
>   
> 人生可比是海上的波浪  
> 有时起 有时落  
> 好运 歹运 总嘛要照起工来行  
> 三分天注定 七分靠打拼  
> 爱拼才会赢

And here is my translation attempt:

> If you're disappointed for a moment, don't grumble and grudge  
> If you're panick-stricken for a moment, don't stay struck with terror  
> [Na-thang] lose hope  
> Be drunk every day  
> Have a body but not a soul, like a scarecrow  
>   
> Life is like the waves of the sea:  
> Sometimes it raises,    sometimes it falls  
> Good luck   bad luck    will all pass as destined  
> 3 parts are decided by heaven    7 parts rely on [your] fighting  
> [You] should fight, only then will you win

Actually, I have two questions:

1. What does that "na-thang" mean and how should it be spelt? The translation in the link, "Going through times without hope, we may drown our sorrow in liquor" doesn't convince me, because it seems to suggest 通 means "go through", which is not documented in [my Min reference](http://twblg.dict.edu.tw), and it has a "may" that is nowhere to be found in the following line; one suggestion it gives is to write "na" with 若, and take it as "if"; on that lead, I would guess 若通 is a word for "if", like 若準 | nā-tsún, but this is not recorded in my reference; another track might be to interpret 通 as a classifier of occasions or time, something like 次 or 时, and read this as «In such times you lose hope, etc», or interpret 失去希望 as what the classifier is classifying, and read this as «In those times of losing hope / You get drunk every day / …»; which of the three guesses is correct? Or is it none of them? And in this case, what is the correct interpretation and spelling of the line?
2. I am guessing 醉茫茫 is just a way to intensify 醉, something like "dead drunk" or "drunk-ass" in English; is this correct?

UPDATE

From my source, entry on 茫:

> 形容人神智不清的狀態。例：袂曉啉酒閣啉並濟的，這馬咧茫矣乎？Bē-hiáu lim-tsiú koh lim phīng tsē--ê, tsit-má teh bâng--ah--honnh? (不會喝酒還喝那麼多，這下子可喝醉了吧？)；醉茫茫　tsuì-bâng-bâng(醉得神智不清)。

So 茫 is essentially a synonym of 醉, and 醉茫茫 means exactly what I thought (醉得神智不清: drunk to the point that the mind isn't well-functioning, lit. "clear").

So question 2 is solved, and only question 1 remains.

**Tags:** meaning, topolect, hokkien

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: You should not translate the Min dialect by the Mandarin's rule. I don't know much more about Min language, but I know a little from Jay Chou's lyrics. e.g. 亲像稻草人 means 就像稻草人. The lyrics written in Min language usually use phonogram characters, or the meaning in their own language.  
> **username_2**: Also, phai should be 否 and phah 拍, but 歹 and 打 are popular misspellings. And in the 人生 line, i've always heard ko and not kho, and i ended up spelling it as 人生故(必/比)是海上的波浪 which fits better: "(whatever happens), life is still like the ocean waves"  
> **username_0**: @username_2 I believe I was just copying the captions. That said, I think MoE would disagree on 否, given the 台湾闽南语常用词辞典 gives only phí and hónn for that character.  
> **username_2**: I understand, and most Hokkien song captions have wrong spellings because they use whatever the audience would be happy with, not the most etymologically accurate. As for 否, see https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%90%A6#Pronunciation_2 -- d/t/th do not evolve into p/ph...  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2017-10-02. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

I am from Taiwan, and 閩南語 is one of my mother language.
I think "na tang"(那通) is simplified from "na e dang"(怎麼可以).
The translation of“那通失去希望 每日醉茫茫” should be
"How can you get drunk all the day after losing a hope."
I found a blog which explains this song clearly, though it was written in Chinese.
<http://blog.sina.cn/dpool/blog/s/blog_4e97365d0100b7c1.html>

I am curious why you don't ask the translation of 照起工來行...
It is so strange.
Give you a reference: <http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://twblg.dict.edu.tw/holodict_new/iongji/pdf/annesia311pdf.pdf&gws_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=3ZLSWbfqI4TO0gS9jquQAg>

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: So the "na" would be a contraction of 哪会 | ná ē, the "dang" should be spelt 当 as in 會當 | ē-tàng (=kêyí), and the whole thing is essentially the same as 哪会 | 哪會 | ná ē (cfr. my dictionary), correct? Let me just listen to that part of the song looking out for an aspiration on the "tang" part...  
> **username_0**: No aspirationn that I can hear, so nothing to deny your hypothesis.  
> **username_0**: I didb't ask for that translation because it seemed to me that the dictionary I had was enough. I will have a look at your references anyway. The second one appears to have something to do with my dictionary though.  
> **username_3**: I don't know how to spell 閩南話.  
> **username_3**: "na e " is a little different from "na e dang".  
> **username_3**: I was so careless to press wrong button again. "e dang" 可以 has "permit " meaning. "Gam e dang " is asking a person to allow or to do something.  
> **username_3**: But I heard the aspiration "na tang"  
> **username_0**: According to my dictionary, "ē-tàng" (會當) also has a meaning of 能夠、做得到.  Let me read that blog.  
> **username_0**: «“那通失去希望”，单独的“那”（发音“哪”），表达“若”、“如果”等虚词意义；“通”，读音“tan”，“通豁”（tan_ho）的省略说法，意思是“可以”，“那通”两字就解作“若可以”。如把“那”按字面解作“这、那”的“那”，“那通”意思就是“那么就会”。有的闽南语地区，把“那通”视为一个词，解作“怎么可以”，这样解似乎更贴切。». Wow that's confusing :). But in the end, it does suggest the meaning you are suggesting. BUt if it _is_ a contraction of "ná ē-tàng", then there should be no aspiration on the last syllable (note that Tai-lo, the romaniation system I'm using, uses "t" for unaspirated and "th" for aspirated), yet you say you hear an aspiration…  
> **username_0**: I can't seem to find that blog's 通豁 on my dictionary… do you know that word?  
> **username_0**: As for 总嘛要照起工来行, I have: 1) 总 = 都; 2) 嘛 = 也; 3) 爱 (misspelt as 要) = 要; 4) 照起工 = «按部就班，照規矩制度來行事» (says dictionary); 5) 来 = 来; 6) 行 = 走, so I get the translation in the question. The blog discards it as "not agreeing with the song's style", but then proposes another possible interpretation without discarding it, 踏踏实实, going on continuously.  
> **username_0**: I guess "according to prescribed order" with respect to "good luck and bad luck" is pretty much the same as "firmly come and go", "steadily come and go".<br> <br> Anyways this is veering off-topic from the question.  
> **username_3**: Try to look on your dictionary with 通好 instead of 通豁. Press here to listen to the pronunciation : https://itaigi.tw/k/可以  
> **username_0**: Still «無資料，系統已經自動記錄», both with option 词目音读 and with option 对应华语. I'll get to listening in a while.  
> **username_0**: My dictionary does not seem to have a thang-hó matchig your pronunciation reference. It does have 會得通 though, AND report that 通 | thang can mean kêyî, so we have an explanation, without even needing to assume a contraction. I guess that is it.  
> **username_0**: The spelling should then be 哪通, first charavter for "how", second character for "thang" as documented above, Tai-lo "ná thang".  
> **username_0**: Note that, from what I have seen in the dictionary, I conclude that "ē-tàng" and "thang" are two distinct words, both meaning kêyî. So you should probably update your answer.  
> **username_0**: I just looked up "tiu-tshau-lang" (aka "daocaoren") in [Wiktionary](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%A8%BB%E8%8D%89%E4%BA%BA) to see what the "dao" character meant, and surprise surprise, guess what usage example they have :). And they confirm your "I think".  
> **username_3**: Oh~It's unbelievable! I didn't look this webpage before.  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2020-05-06. Score: 0

This is one of my favorite Hokkien karaoke songs which I've been singing for the last 15 years at least. And I didn't know so much could be seen or argued about in 那通失去希望, 每日醉茫茫. While not getting into the argument, (as I am only a Hakka who loves to sing Hokkien songs), here's one person's English translation, (with certain parts more of a paraphrase, as in "the memory of going through...") Take it for what's worth, and hopefully helpful for Chinese language learners as well.

<https://youtu.be/S0rIg45lGpk>


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### Answer by username_2 on 2020-03-16. Score: 0

I prefer writing na-thang as 若通, which is hard to translate in English. It is a conditional "why...", "how can...", in contrast to e-thang 會通 "can".


---

