<p>Never, ever, heard of 'putonghua' outside of China, I doubt the average English speaker would know what that is, notwithstanding OED. 'putonghua' is most definitely not standard English. Oxford is trying to sell books!</p>

<p>'mandar' is Spanish and Portugues for 命令 and the source of 'mandarin = little boss = 大臣，官员， 大人' ('in' a diminutive suffix) and by association, the standardized language they spoke. Because these guys wore an orange coloured robe, the fruit 橘子 got that name in Europe too! </p>

<p>Sent by the emperor to govern somewhere, the educated 'mandarin' spoke a standard language, theoretically.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-30T10:23:33.287Z
2018-03-30T10:23:33.287Z
Pedroski
<p>The use of Mandarin to refer to Chinese dates back to the Jesuits. Mandarin means 'court official', so it was a reasonable translation for 官话, and the term has persisted.</p>

<p>I'd be interested to hear other people's experiences, but I mainly hear this term used to draw a contrast between 'Mandarin' and 'Cantonese', as in "oh, you're studying Chinese? Are you learning Mandarin or Cantonese?". </p>

<p>So ok, the person asking this question clearly doesn't know China very well, but that's fine, the world is a big place, it's hard to know everything. But this terminology they're using </p>

<p>1) identifies that 'Chinese' is a family of languages/dialects</p>

<p>2) makes a first-pass north-vs-south distinction, although with technically incorrect terms that actually have a more specific meaning than that.</p>

<p>3) identifies the 'northern' version as the 'court official' one.</p>

<p>That's... well, surprisingly accurate for someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-30T19:49:58.737Z
2018-03-30T19:49:58.737Z
steveLangsford
<p>There are differences between Mandarin and Putonghua, some of them political.</p>

<p>Mandarin is originally a Portuguese-based translation of 官话 (<em>guanyu</em> - "language of the officials"), so it is a much older word than Putonghua. </p>

<p>Nowadays, Mandarin is used to differentiate between different "Chinese languages", especially in contrast with Cantonese or Hakka. The implication is that "China" and "Chinese" is an artificial construct, where different languages are actually spoken.</p>

<p>Putonghua, on the other hand, is a word that was created in China to imply the opposite. It means "standard Chinese", as opposed to variants. For instance, in Sichuan you can take "Putonghua" courses to learn the standard pronunciation if you want to speak on TV or radio. The Sichuan dialect would, however, be considered a variant of Mandarin in English.<br>
This concept is similar to the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_language" rel="nofollow noreferrer">standard languages</a> that many languages have. The underlying idea is that there is one language with a number of regional variants and one standard, official version.  </p>

<p>At the same time, some languages spoken in China are acknowledged as different languages and are used in government of their region, such as Tibetan, Mongolian and Uighur. These languages are very different from any form of Chinese, and have their own writing systems.</p>

<p>It's worth noting that in Taiwan (Republic of China), the standard variety of Chinese neither called <em>guanyu</em> nor <em>putonghua</em>, but rather (<em>guoyu</em> - "national language") which has different implications again.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-05T07:15:38.653Z
2018-04-05T07:15:38.653Z
KWeiss
<p>Why should they? People don't rely on dictionaries when they speak. “Putonghua” may be in dictionaries, but it is still not a commonly used word.</p>
<p>As for why “Mandarin” is used and not “Putonghua”, I believe that “Putonghua” was only recently included in English dictionaries. In China, 普通话 only became a commonly used term during the 20th century. (This is confirmed by <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#Putonghua_and_Guoyu" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Wikipedia</a>.) So it seems likely that one reason “Putonghua”is not commonly used is that it hasn't had enough time to become adopted in English. I also think that another reason “Putonghua” isn't used much is because of phonetics: it doesn't sound like an English word, so people may find it hard to remember and to use.</p>
<p>It could be argued that it is more correct to use “Putonghua” rather than “Mandarin” when referring to standard Chinese. It is conceivable that changes in culture, geopolitics and education may lead to the term “Putonghua” eventually becoming the standard, commonly used term in English for “standard Chinese”. But I don't think it will happen soon. Not before at least a decade I think.</p>
<p>The majority of English speakers do not have much knowledge about the different Chinese languages.</p>
<p>Here are some comments on the usage of the terms Mandarin, Chinese and Putonghua.</p>
<p>Chinese: noun in common use in spoken English. It usually means standard Chinese, i.e. Putonghua. (口语)</p>
<p>Mandarin: noun also used by the general public, but seems a little more formal. (书面语)</p>
<p>Putonghua: not in common use. In general it is only used by someone with a little specialised knowledge of China and/or Chinese languages. Interestingly, in Wikipedia “Putonghua” is a &quot;redirect&quot; to the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#Putonghua_and_Guoyu" rel="nofollow noreferrer">&quot;Standard Chinese&quot; entry</a>. The article is well worth a look.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-03-30T07:06:06.833Z
2021-04-13T16:42:02.180Z
2021-04-13T16:42:02.180Z
goPlayerJuggler
<p><a href="https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/putonghua" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/putonghua</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>putonghua</p>
<p>mass noun</p>
<p>The standard spoken form of modern Chinese, based on the dialect of Beijing.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-30T08:03:59.207Z
It'd be interesting to know when *putonghua* was added to Oxford.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-03-30T11:21:29.633Z
iciba：

Old habits die hard.

积习难改。

2.

It's not easy to break the old habits, for they die hard.

改掉旧习惯很不容易, 因为它不易革除.
user6065
<word-choice><difference><word>
Since Putonghua is a standard English word, why do people use Mandarin for standard Chinese?
# Since Putonghua is a standard English word, why do people use Mandarin for standard Chinese?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-03-30)

<https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/putonghua>

> putonghua
>
> mass noun
>
> The standard spoken form of modern Chinese, based on the dialect of Beijing.

**Tags:** word-choice, difference, word

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: It'd be interesting to know when *putonghua* was added to Oxford.  
> **username_2**: iciba：  Old habits die hard.  积习难改。  2.  It's not easy to break the old habits, for they die hard.  改掉旧习惯很不容易, 因为它不易革除.  

---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_6 on 2018-03-30. Score: 6 | Accepted answer

Why should they? People don't rely on dictionaries when they speak. “Putonghua” may be in dictionaries, but it is still not a commonly used word.

As for why “Mandarin” is used and not “Putonghua”, I believe that “Putonghua” was only recently included in English dictionaries. In China, 普通话 only became a commonly used term during the 20th century. (This is confirmed by [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#Putonghua_and_Guoyu).) So it seems likely that one reason “Putonghua”is not commonly used is that it hasn't had enough time to become adopted in English. I also think that another reason “Putonghua” isn't used much is because of phonetics: it doesn't sound like an English word, so people may find it hard to remember and to use.

It could be argued that it is more correct to use “Putonghua” rather than “Mandarin” when referring to standard Chinese. It is conceivable that changes in culture, geopolitics and education may lead to the term “Putonghua” eventually becoming the standard, commonly used term in English for “standard Chinese”. But I don't think it will happen soon. Not before at least a decade I think.

The majority of English speakers do not have much knowledge about the different Chinese languages.

Here are some comments on the usage of the terms Mandarin, Chinese and Putonghua.

Chinese: noun in common use in spoken English. It usually means standard Chinese, i.e. Putonghua. (口语)

Mandarin: noun also used by the general public, but seems a little more formal. (书面语)

Putonghua: not in common use. In general it is only used by someone with a little specialised knowledge of China and/or Chinese languages. Interestingly, in Wikipedia “Putonghua” is a "redirect" to the ["Standard Chinese" entry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Chinese#Putonghua_and_Guoyu). The article is well worth a look.


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2018-03-30. Score: 3

Never, ever, heard of 'putonghua' outside of China, I doubt the average English speaker would know what that is, notwithstanding OED. 'putonghua' is most definitely not standard English. Oxford is trying to sell books!

'mandar' is Spanish and Portugues for 命令 and the source of 'mandarin = little boss = 大臣，官员， 大人' ('in' a diminutive suffix) and by association, the standardized language they spoke. Because these guys wore an orange coloured robe, the fruit 橘子 got that name in Europe too!

Sent by the emperor to govern somewhere, the educated 'mandarin' spoke a standard language, theoretically.


---

### Answer by username_4 on 2018-03-30. Score: 2

The use of Mandarin to refer to Chinese dates back to the Jesuits. Mandarin means 'court official', so it was a reasonable translation for 官话, and the term has persisted.

I'd be interested to hear other people's experiences, but I mainly hear this term used to draw a contrast between 'Mandarin' and 'Cantonese', as in "oh, you're studying Chinese? Are you learning Mandarin or Cantonese?".

So ok, the person asking this question clearly doesn't know China very well, but that's fine, the world is a big place, it's hard to know everything. But this terminology they're using

1) identifies that 'Chinese' is a family of languages/dialects

2) makes a first-pass north-vs-south distinction, although with technically incorrect terms that actually have a more specific meaning than that.

3) identifies the 'northern' version as the 'court official' one.

That's... well, surprisingly accurate for someone who clearly doesn't know what they're talking about.


---

### Answer by username_5 on 2018-04-05. Score: 2

There are differences between Mandarin and Putonghua, some of them political.

Mandarin is originally a Portuguese-based translation of 官话 (*guanyu* - "language of the officials"), so it is a much older word than Putonghua.

Nowadays, Mandarin is used to differentiate between different "Chinese languages", especially in contrast with Cantonese or Hakka. The implication is that "China" and "Chinese" is an artificial construct, where different languages are actually spoken.

Putonghua, on the other hand, is a word that was created in China to imply the opposite. It means "standard Chinese", as opposed to variants. For instance, in Sichuan you can take "Putonghua" courses to learn the standard pronunciation if you want to speak on TV or radio. The Sichuan dialect would, however, be considered a variant of Mandarin in English.  
This concept is similar to the [standard languages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_language) that many languages have. The underlying idea is that there is one language with a number of regional variants and one standard, official version.

At the same time, some languages spoken in China are acknowledged as different languages and are used in government of their region, such as Tibetan, Mongolian and Uighur. These languages are very different from any form of Chinese, and have their own writing systems.

It's worth noting that in Taiwan (Republic of China), the standard variety of Chinese neither called *guanyu* nor *putonghua*, but rather (*guoyu* - "national language") which has different implications again.


---

