<p>求 didn't mean &quot;beg/request&quot; initially. The meaning of beg/request was borrowed due to it having same sound. Phonetic loan characters 假借字 are one of the 六書. 求 is a classic example of 假借字. Another example is 北 (two people sitting back to back), which originally meant back. 北 had its meaning borrowed for &quot;north&quot; and the character with &quot;back&quot; definition is now 背</p>
<p>This is the first time I've heard of 求 as a centipede. The classic interpretation I know for 求 has always been a sort of combination comprising 毛 and 衣 meaning fur coat, where the character that means fur coat is now written as 裘. I'm guessing the centipede meaning is now written as 蛷. Both 裘 and 蛷 are fairly obscure characters, and are almost never really seen in modern usage.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E6%B1%82" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E6%B1%82</a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-26T23:19:24.023Z
thanks. but before 求 , chinese did not use request/beg in any of their scripts?
user27485
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-27T14:45:14.137Z
well, there is another character 乞 that also means beg, itself a phonetic loan from 气, but i am less familiar with reading the very old scripts though
Fishuman
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2021-04-26T16:03:45.733Z
2021-04-26T16:03:45.733Z
Fishuman
<p>In the <em>Outlier</em> entry there is a link to a gloss explaining the term:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>Sound Loan</strong> is when a character gets borrowed to represent a word for its sound, rather than its form.</p>
<p>Ex. The form 我 wǒ which today means &quot;I; me&quot; was originally a picture of a type of weapon that consisted of a handle and a blade with saw-like teeth. The name of the weapon sounded similar to the word for &quot;I; me,&quot; so it was borrowed to represent that word. Eventually, the meaning &quot;I; me&quot; took over completely and the form 我 was no longer used to represent the name of the weapon.</p>
<p>Ex. The form 其 that now represents the word qí &quot;his/her/its&quot; originally depicted a basket. That word meaning &quot;basket&quot; is now written 箕 jī.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In <em>Outlier</em> you will often see the ○ icon in the meaning trees to indicate a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classification#Rebus_(phonetic_loan)_characters" rel="noreferrer">phonetic loan</a>. Which are generally defined as a:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>character that is &quot;borrowed&quot; to write another homophonous or near-homophonous morpheme</p>
</blockquote>
<p>So, yes, your assumption was correct - “to seek, request” originally existed as qiú without a specific character associated with it. The character「求」was then later borrowed as the readings matched.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-26T23:13:36.383Z
for e.g 其 - was used to represent basket in Oracle bone/Seal script earlier , but never meant to mean his, her? in oracle bones or seal scripts no character for his, her ? at all?
user27485
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-27T23:49:53.283Z
Can you provide references to this statement: [ “to seek, request” originally existed as qiú without a specific character associated with it. The character「求」was then later borrowed as the readings matched.]
r13
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-28T06:08:03.910Z
@r13 黃德寬，2007《古文字譜系疏證》，北京：商務印書館, p. 482 - the above information - including the question - is all based on the information found in *Outlier*, the reference is the reference that they provide.
Mou某
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2021-04-26T16:36:06.983Z
2021-04-26T16:36:06.983Z
Mou某
<p>I am going through Outlier dictionary for character 求:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>求 depicts a centipede or millipede, indicating the original meaning “myriapod (a type of insect with a lot of legs).” It was borrowed for its sound (via sound loan) to represent the meaning “to seek, request.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>I do not understand what &quot;sound loan&quot; means. How is “to seek, request” the &quot;sound loan&quot; of 求 ?</p>
<p>Does it mean <em>qiú</em> was already in use for “to seek, request” without any character attached to pronunciation <em>qiú</em>?</p>

<meaning-in-context><etymology>
What is a "sound loan"?
# What is a "sound loan"?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2021-04-26)

I am going through Outlier dictionary for character 求:

> 求 depicts a centipede or millipede, indicating the original meaning “myriapod (a type of insect with a lot of legs).” It was borrowed for its sound (via sound loan) to represent the meaning “to seek, request.”

I do not understand what "sound loan" means. How is “to seek, request” the "sound loan" of 求 ?

Does it mean *qiú* was already in use for “to seek, request” without any character attached to pronunciation *qiú*?

**Tags:** meaning-in-context, etymology


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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2021-04-26. Score: 9 | Accepted answer

In the *Outlier* entry there is a link to a gloss explaining the term:

> **Sound Loan** is when a character gets borrowed to represent a word for its sound, rather than its form.
>
> Ex. The form 我 wǒ which today means "I; me" was originally a picture of a type of weapon that consisted of a handle and a blade with saw-like teeth. The name of the weapon sounded similar to the word for "I; me," so it was borrowed to represent that word. Eventually, the meaning "I; me" took over completely and the form 我 was no longer used to represent the name of the weapon.
>
> Ex. The form 其 that now represents the word qí "his/her/its" originally depicted a basket. That word meaning "basket" is now written 箕 jī.

In *Outlier* you will often see the ○ icon in the meaning trees to indicate a [phonetic loan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classification#Rebus_(phonetic_loan)_characters). Which are generally defined as a:

> character that is "borrowed" to write another homophonous or near-homophonous morpheme

So, yes, your assumption was correct - “to seek, request” originally existed as qiú without a specific character associated with it. The character「求」was then later borrowed as the readings matched.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: for e.g 其 - was used to represent basket in Oracle bone/Seal script earlier , but never meant to mean his, her? in oracle bones or seal scripts no character for his, her ? at all?  
> **username_3**: Can you provide references to this statement: [ “to seek, request” originally existed as qiú without a specific character associated with it. The character「求」was then later borrowed as the readings matched.]  
> **username_2**: @username_3 黃德寬，2007《古文字譜系疏證》，北京：商務印書館, p. 482 - the above information - including the question - is all based on the information found in *Outlier*, the reference is the reference that they provide.  

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### Answer by username_1 on 2021-04-26. Score: 4

求 didn't mean "beg/request" initially. The meaning of beg/request was borrowed due to it having same sound. Phonetic loan characters 假借字 are one of the 六書. 求 is a classic example of 假借字. Another example is 北 (two people sitting back to back), which originally meant back. 北 had its meaning borrowed for "north" and the character with "back" definition is now 背

This is the first time I've heard of 求 as a centipede. The classic interpretation I know for 求 has always been a sort of combination comprising 毛 and 衣 meaning fur coat, where the character that means fur coat is now written as 裘. I'm guessing the centipede meaning is now written as 蛷. Both 裘 and 蛷 are fairly obscure characters, and are almost never really seen in modern usage.

<https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E6%B1%82>

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: thanks. but before 求 , chinese did not use request/beg in any of their scripts?  
> **username_1**: well, there is another character 乞 that also means beg, itself a phonetic loan from 气, but i am less familiar with reading the very old scripts though  

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