<blockquote>
<p>Here are some variants of the official titles</p>
</blockquote>
<p>i think that you <strong>misread</strong> some of the terms</p>
<blockquote>
<p>封王開府/開府封王</p>
</blockquote>
<p>i would interpreted these two as “appointed to a nobility (封王), established an office (開府)”</p>
<blockquote>
<p>儀同三司</p>
</blockquote>
<p>it’s a title, read as “courteous reception” (禮<strong>儀</strong>待遇) same as (<strong>同</strong>) three duke (<strong>三司</strong> —-&gt; 三公)</p>
<blockquote>
<p>開府儀同三司</p>
</blockquote>
<p>same as above, a title added “開府”; a longer one seems more privilege </p>
<p>you need to pinpoint which dynasty, for a more precise translation of these title, imo </p>
<p>imo</p>
<p><a href="https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hant/%E5%BC%80%E5%BA%9C%E4%BB%AA%E5%90%8C%E4%B8%89%E5%8F%B8" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hant/%E5%BC%80%E5%BA%9C%E4%BB%AA%E5%90%8C%E4%B8%89%E5%8F%B8</a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-23T15:58:35.040Z
Thanks for your help ! I forgot to specify that the period is 南北朝/隋唐. Yeah, by reading the dictionary entries, I understood the construction 儀同+noun, like 儀同封王/儀同三司, but 儀同 alone, or in reverse order e.g., 開府儀同, completely lost me…
Firmin Martin
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-23T08:04:19.590Z
2024-06-23T08:04:19.590Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>Here are some variants of the official titles I'm trying to translate :</p>
<ul>
<li>封王開府/開府封王</li>
<li>儀同開府/開府儀同</li>
<li>開府儀同三司</li>
</ul>
<p>Some contexts :</p>
<p><a href="https://zh.wikisource.org/zh-hant/%E9%9A%8B%E6%9B%B8/%E5%8D%B714" rel="nofollow noreferrer">隋書‧卷十四</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>雜樂有西涼鼙舞、清樂、龜茲等。然吹笛、彈琵琶、五弦及歌舞之伎，自文襄以來，皆所愛好。至河清以後，傳習尤盛。後主唯賞胡戎樂，耽愛無已。於是繁手淫聲，爭新哀怨。故曹妙達、安未弱、安馬駒之徒，至有<strong>封王開府</strong>者，遂服簪纓而為伶人之事。後主亦自能度曲，親執樂器，悅玩無倦，倚弦而歌。別采新聲，為《無愁曲》，音韻窈窕，極於哀思，使胡兒閹官之輩，齊唱和之，曲終樂闋，莫不殞涕。雖行幸道路，或時馬上奏之，樂往哀來，竟以亡國。</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E8%B3%87%E6%B2%BB%E9%80%9A%E9%91%91/%E5%8D%B7172" rel="nofollow noreferrer">資治通鑑‧卷一百七十二</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>寵任陸令萱、穆提婆、高阿那肱、韓長鸞等宰制朝政，宦官鄧長顒、陳德信、胡兒何洪珍等並參預機權，各引親黨，超居顯位。官由財進，獄以賄成，競為奸諂，蠹政害民。舊蒼頭劉桃枝等皆<strong>開府封王</strong>，其餘宦官、胡兒、歌舞人、見鬼人、官奴婢等濫得富貴者，殆將萬數，庶姓封王者以百數，開府千餘人，儀同無數，領軍一時至二十人，侍中、中常侍數十人，乃至狗、馬及鷹亦有儀同、郡君之號，有鬥雞，號開府，皆食其干祿。諸嬖倖朝夕娛侍左右，一戲之賞，動逾巨萬。既而府藏空竭，乃賜二三郡或六七縣，使之賣官取直。由是為守令者，率皆富商大賈，競為貪縱，賦繁役重，民不聊生。</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="https://zh.wikisource.org/zh-hant/%E5%8C%97%E9%BD%8A%E6%9B%B8/%E5%8D%B750" rel="nofollow noreferrer">北齊書‧卷五十</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>又有何海及子洪珍皆為王，尤為親要。洪珍侮弄權勢，鬻獄賣官。又有史醜多之徒胡小兒等數十，咸能舞工歌，亦至<strong>儀同</strong>、<strong>開府封王</strong>。諸宦者猶以宮掖驅馳，便煩左右，漸因昵狎，以至大官。蒼頭始自家人，情寄深密，及於後主，則是先朝舊人，以勤舊之勞，致此叨竊。至於胡小兒等眼鼻深險，一無可用，非理愛好，排突朝貴，尤為人士之所疾惡。其以音樂至大官者：沈過兒官至<strong>開府儀同</strong>，王長通年十四五，便假節通州刺史。</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E8%88%8A%E5%94%90%E6%9B%B8/%E5%8D%B768#%E5%B0%89%E8%BF%9F%E6%81%AD" rel="nofollow noreferrer">舊唐書‧卷六十八</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>十一年，封建功臣爲代襲刺史，冊拜敬德宣州刺史，改封鄂國公。後歷鄜夏二州都督。十七年，抗表乞骸骨，授<strong>開府儀同三司</strong>，令朝朔望。尋與長孫無忌等二十四人圖形於凌煙閣。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Relevant entries from the dictionary of official titles in Imperial China (Charles O. Hucker) :</p>
<ul>
<li>開府</li>
</ul>
<blockquote>
<p>Lit., to open an office, implying the creation of one's own staff. (1) HAN: Executive, an honorific title (chia) originally reserved for the Three Dukes (san kung), i.e., the defender-in-chìef (t'ai-weí)&gt; the Counselor-in-chief (ch'enghsiang), and the Cēnsor-in-chief (yii-shih ta-fu). At the end of Han, when regional warlords became dominant, they also “opened offices” on the same basis as the Three Dukes, and gradually the honorific title was clarified by expansion into the term k'ai-fu i-t'ung san-ssu (Area Commander Unequalled in Honor; lit.，opening an office and being equal in prestige to the Three Dignitaries). (2) N-S DIV: Area Commander, a usage derived from Han, signifying a relatively autonomous regional warlord. (3) N-S DIV -SUI: Commander, also deriving from Han usage but a more regular, specific title for a militaiy officer, often one in command of an Army (chūn). In the Garrison Militia {fuping) system of the last N. Dynasties and Sui, normally indicated the commander of an army of 2,000 or so men drawn from several neighboring Garrisons (fu). (4) CITING; Area Commander, unofficial reference to a Governor general (tsung-tu) of several Provinces or a Provincial Governor (hsŭn-fu).</p>
</blockquote>
<ul>
<li>儀同</li>
</ul>
<blockquote>
<p>SUI: variant form (or calligraphic error) for i-ssu (Director of a pasturage), q.v.</p>
</blockquote>
<ul>
<li>儀司</li>
</ul>
<blockquote>
<p>SUI: lit. meaning and derivation not clear: Director of the Pasturage for Fine Steeds (hua-liu mu) under supervision of the Court of the Imperial Stud (t'ai-p'u ssu). P31，39.</p>
</blockquote>
<ul>
<li>開府儀同三司</li>
</ul>
<blockquote>
<p>N-S DIV-Yŭan: Commander Unequalled in Hoimh*, first an honorific title (chia) for eminent generals’ then from Sui a prestige title (san-kuan) for both civil officials and military officers of rank lb; la in Yŭan. This tradition was terminated at the beginning of Ming. See under k'ai-fu.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Looks like 開府 and 儀同 can be arbitrarily combined in any order... Any clue on the translation of these titles ?</p>

<translation><classical-chinese><history>
Translation of the official titles including 封王, 開府, 儀同
# Translation of the official titles including 封王, 開府, 儀同

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-06-23)

Here are some variants of the official titles I'm trying to translate :

* 封王開府/開府封王
* 儀同開府/開府儀同
* 開府儀同三司

Some contexts :

[隋書‧卷十四](https://zh.wikisource.org/zh-hant/%E9%9A%8B%E6%9B%B8/%E5%8D%B714)

> 雜樂有西涼鼙舞、清樂、龜茲等。然吹笛、彈琵琶、五弦及歌舞之伎，自文襄以來，皆所愛好。至河清以後，傳習尤盛。後主唯賞胡戎樂，耽愛無已。於是繁手淫聲，爭新哀怨。故曹妙達、安未弱、安馬駒之徒，至有**封王開府**者，遂服簪纓而為伶人之事。後主亦自能度曲，親執樂器，悅玩無倦，倚弦而歌。別采新聲，為《無愁曲》，音韻窈窕，極於哀思，使胡兒閹官之輩，齊唱和之，曲終樂闋，莫不殞涕。雖行幸道路，或時馬上奏之，樂往哀來，竟以亡國。

[資治通鑑‧卷一百七十二](https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E8%B3%87%E6%B2%BB%E9%80%9A%E9%91%91/%E5%8D%B7172)

> 寵任陸令萱、穆提婆、高阿那肱、韓長鸞等宰制朝政，宦官鄧長顒、陳德信、胡兒何洪珍等並參預機權，各引親黨，超居顯位。官由財進，獄以賄成，競為奸諂，蠹政害民。舊蒼頭劉桃枝等皆**開府封王**，其餘宦官、胡兒、歌舞人、見鬼人、官奴婢等濫得富貴者，殆將萬數，庶姓封王者以百數，開府千餘人，儀同無數，領軍一時至二十人，侍中、中常侍數十人，乃至狗、馬及鷹亦有儀同、郡君之號，有鬥雞，號開府，皆食其干祿。諸嬖倖朝夕娛侍左右，一戲之賞，動逾巨萬。既而府藏空竭，乃賜二三郡或六七縣，使之賣官取直。由是為守令者，率皆富商大賈，競為貪縱，賦繁役重，民不聊生。

[北齊書‧卷五十](https://zh.wikisource.org/zh-hant/%E5%8C%97%E9%BD%8A%E6%9B%B8/%E5%8D%B750)

> 又有何海及子洪珍皆為王，尤為親要。洪珍侮弄權勢，鬻獄賣官。又有史醜多之徒胡小兒等數十，咸能舞工歌，亦至**儀同**、**開府封王**。諸宦者猶以宮掖驅馳，便煩左右，漸因昵狎，以至大官。蒼頭始自家人，情寄深密，及於後主，則是先朝舊人，以勤舊之勞，致此叨竊。至於胡小兒等眼鼻深險，一無可用，非理愛好，排突朝貴，尤為人士之所疾惡。其以音樂至大官者：沈過兒官至**開府儀同**，王長通年十四五，便假節通州刺史。

[舊唐書‧卷六十八](https://zh.wikisource.org/wiki/%E8%88%8A%E5%94%90%E6%9B%B8/%E5%8D%B768#%E5%B0%89%E8%BF%9F%E6%81%AD)

> 十一年，封建功臣爲代襲刺史，冊拜敬德宣州刺史，改封鄂國公。後歷鄜夏二州都督。十七年，抗表乞骸骨，授**開府儀同三司**，令朝朔望。尋與長孫無忌等二十四人圖形於凌煙閣。

Relevant entries from the dictionary of official titles in Imperial China (Charles O. Hucker) :

* 開府

> Lit., to open an office, implying the creation of one's own staff. (1) HAN: Executive, an honorific title (chia) originally reserved for the Three Dukes (san kung), i.e., the defender-in-chìef (t'ai-weí)> the Counselor-in-chief (ch'enghsiang), and the Cēnsor-in-chief (yii-shih ta-fu). At the end of Han, when regional warlords became dominant, they also “opened offices” on the same basis as the Three Dukes, and gradually the honorific title was clarified by expansion into the term k'ai-fu i-t'ung san-ssu (Area Commander Unequalled in Honor; lit.，opening an office and being equal in prestige to the Three Dignitaries). (2) N-S DIV: Area Commander, a usage derived from Han, signifying a relatively autonomous regional warlord. (3) N-S DIV -SUI: Commander, also deriving from Han usage but a more regular, specific title for a militaiy officer, often one in command of an Army (chūn). In the Garrison Militia {fuping) system of the last N. Dynasties and Sui, normally indicated the commander of an army of 2,000 or so men drawn from several neighboring Garrisons (fu). (4) CITING; Area Commander, unofficial reference to a Governor general (tsung-tu) of several Provinces or a Provincial Governor (hsŭn-fu).

* 儀同

> SUI: variant form (or calligraphic error) for i-ssu (Director of a pasturage), q.v.

* 儀司

> SUI: lit. meaning and derivation not clear: Director of the Pasturage for Fine Steeds (hua-liu mu) under supervision of the Court of the Imperial Stud (t'ai-p'u ssu). P31，39.

* 開府儀同三司

> N-S DIV-Yŭan: Commander Unequalled in Hoimh\*, first an honorific title (chia) for eminent generals’ then from Sui a prestige title (san-kuan) for both civil officials and military officers of rank lb; la in Yŭan. This tradition was terminated at the beginning of Ming. See under k'ai-fu.

Looks like 開府 and 儀同 can be arbitrarily combined in any order... Any clue on the translation of these titles ?

**Tags:** translation, classical-chinese, history


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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2024-06-23. Score: 3

> Here are some variants of the official titles

i think that you **misread** some of the terms

> 封王開府/開府封王

i would interpreted these two as “appointed to a nobility (封王), established an office (開府)”

> 儀同三司

it’s a title, read as “courteous reception” (禮**儀**待遇) same as (**同**) three duke (**三司** —-> 三公)

> 開府儀同三司

same as above, a title added “開府”; a longer one seems more privilege

you need to pinpoint which dynasty, for a more precise translation of these title, imo

imo

<https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hant/%E5%BC%80%E5%BA%9C%E4%BB%AA%E5%90%8C%E4%B8%89%E5%8F%B8>

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks for your help ! I forgot to specify that the period is 南北朝/隋唐. Yeah, by reading the dictionary entries, I understood the construction 儀同+noun, like 儀同封王/儀同三司, but 儀同 alone, or in reverse order e.g., 開府儀同, completely lost me…  

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