<p>I noticed that there's a tendency to drop initial /ŋ/ in Wu (Shanghainese), but I always ascribed it to the proximity of the word to Mandarin:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>我 <br>
Mandarin: wo3 <br>
Wu: (吾) ngu34</p>
<p>外 <br>
Mandarin: wai4 <br>
Wu: nga53</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Whereas it is clearly voiced when it occurs in more language-specific words or single syllables (obviously):</p>
<blockquote>
<p>硬 <br>
Mandarin: ying4 <br>
Wu: ngang53 <br></p>
<p>五 <br>
Mandarin: wu3 <br>
Wu: ng34</p>
<p>鱼 <br>
Mandarin: yu2 <br>
Wu: ng34</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-01-03T12:25:36.683Z
How about any stigma attached to /ŋ/ initials in Wu? Does it sound more "土"?
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-01-03T12:45:48.847Z
I believe it's exactly the opposite: they are very proud people and outside of their home they speak dialect whenever they can as a sign of belonging. They even do it in formal circumstances.
blackgreen
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-01-03T11:40:12.140Z
2018-01-03T11:40:12.140Z
2020-06-17T09:50:11.587Z
blackgreen
<p>There seems to be a habit of dropping /ŋ/ initials in topolects/dialects for fear of seeming like a redneck.</p>

<p>Consider:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Canto: 屋 nguk1 vs. uk1 [the new ABC Cantonese dictionary only gives the <em>uk1</em> even]</p></li>
<li><p>Southwest Mandarin: 欧 ngou1 vs. ou1 </p></li>
</ul>

<p>Some claim this is 老派 vs. 新派 but from my experience it's been considered 土 vs. 洋.</p>

<p>Why does the /ŋ/ initial give people a hillbilly-type feeling?  </p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-01-03T05:38:18.770Z
Can you provide a citation for this consideration? And where is this attitude held, Hong Kong, Guangdong, or some other place? Among younger people or older?
congusbongus
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-01-03T08:21:20.577Z
@congusbongus I'll see if I can find anything that backs up my consideration, might be tough, though.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-01-03T08:24:41.133Z
https://www.zhihu.com/question/23541509 除了老一辈，你是找不到发/ng/音的 -- maybe something like that but slightly off topic really
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-02-02T16:18:36.883Z
There are so many **/ŋ/** initials in our Xi'an dialect, like 我 nge, 安 ngan, 欧 ngou, etc.
xenophōn
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-02-02T16:52:23.737Z
@賈可Jacky is it considered 土?
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-02-05T08:30:15.547Z
Admittedly, some young people's accent is being affected by Mandarin gradually, the syllables like Mandarin, but the tones is still the same as their dialect, but not all syllables, not all people is affected. We don't say they are 土 or 洋, at least, it is very common in our home.
xenophōn
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-02-05T08:32:47.297Z
There are still many /ŋ/ initials in our dialect in the coming tens of yeas.
xenophōn
<pronunciation><topolect>
Why is inital /ŋ/ considered hick-ish?
# Why is inital /ŋ/ considered hick-ish?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-01-03)

There seems to be a habit of dropping /ŋ/ initials in topolects/dialects for fear of seeming like a redneck.

Consider:

* Canto: 屋 nguk1 vs. uk1 [the new ABC Cantonese dictionary only gives the *uk1* even]
* Southwest Mandarin: 欧 ngou1 vs. ou1

Some claim this is 老派 vs. 新派 but from my experience it's been considered 土 vs. 洋.

Why does the /ŋ/ initial give people a hillbilly-type feeling?

**Tags:** pronunciation, topolect

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Can you provide a citation for this consideration? And where is this attitude held, Hong Kong, Guangdong, or some other place? Among younger people or older?  
> **username_0**: @username_1 I'll see if I can find anything that backs up my consideration, might be tough, though.  
> **username_0**: https://www.zhihu.com/question/23541509 除了老一辈，你是找不到发/ng/音的 -- maybe something like that but slightly off topic really  
> **username_2**: There are so many **/ŋ/** initials in our Xi'an dialect, like 我 nge, 安 ngan, 欧 ngou, etc.  
> **username_0**: @賈可Jacky is it considered 土?  
> **username_2**: Admittedly, some young people's accent is being affected by Mandarin gradually, the syllables like Mandarin, but the tones is still the same as their dialect, but not all syllables, not all people is affected. We don't say they are 土 or 洋, at least, it is very common in our home.  
> **username_2**: There are still many /ŋ/ initials in our dialect in the coming tens of yeas.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2018-01-03. Score: 1

I noticed that there's a tendency to drop initial /ŋ/ in Wu (Shanghainese), but I always ascribed it to the proximity of the word to Mandarin:

> 我   
> Mandarin: wo3   
> Wu: (吾) ngu34
>
> 外   
> Mandarin: wai4   
> Wu: nga53

Whereas it is clearly voiced when it occurs in more language-specific words or single syllables (obviously):

> 硬   
> Mandarin: ying4   
> Wu: ngang53
>
> 五   
> Mandarin: wu3   
> Wu: ng34
>
> 鱼   
> Mandarin: yu2   
> Wu: ng34

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: How about any stigma attached to /ŋ/ initials in Wu? Does it sound more "土"?  
> **username_3**: I believe it's exactly the opposite: they are very proud people and outside of their home they speak dialect whenever they can as a sign of belonging. They even do it in formal circumstances.  

---

