<p>Not my forté but I find this:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Main pronunciation 主要发音: yú</p>
<p>Other pronunciations 其它发音: yù,yú</p>
<p>Original meaning 本义: Meaning a snake</p>
<p>Character decomposition 字形分解 [?]:   Component 禺   from (not- 禸 róu).<br />
(name- hand-holding-snake 禺 yú)</p>
<p>Decomposition notes 字形分解说明 [?]:   (- 禺 hand holding a snake)</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-07-28T09:29:08.213Z
2023-07-28T09:29:08.213Z
Pedroski
<p>The content below is copied from 汉典 for your information. (<a href="https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E7%A6%BA" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E7%A6%BA</a>)</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/T9Ew7.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/T9Ew7.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-07-29T12:30:46.160Z
2023-07-29T12:30:46.160Z
r13
<p>Unfortunately, I think the unsatisfying answer to this one is &quot;nobody knows for sure&quot;.</p>
<p><a href="https://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk//Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E7%A6%BA" rel="noreferrer">漢語多功能字庫</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>「禺」字構形初義不明<br />
[My translation] The origin of the form of the character 禺 is unclear.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This character has historically almost always been used as a phonetic loan for meanings unrelated to its form, so there's not a whole lot of evidence to work from.</p>
<p>That being said, I think the most convincing explanation among those you listed is that 禺 is a pictograph of a monkey, since 禺 seems to be cognate to words for monkey in Tibeto-Burman languages.</p>
<p><a href="https://stedt.berkeley.edu/%7Estedt-cgi/rootcanal.pl/etymon/2529#1.3.1" rel="noreferrer">https://stedt.berkeley.edu/~stedt-cgi/rootcanal.pl/etymon/2529#1.3.1</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>#2529 PTB *ŋaːw APE / MONKEY<br />
Reconstructed mesoroots below:<br />
PKC *ŋaaw MONKEY (long tail / grey)<br />
PCN *ŋa MONKEY<br />
Chinese comparandum<br />
禺 OC *ngi̯u, GSR #124a-b ‘monkey’; Schuessler 2007:617 *ŋoh; B &amp; S 2011: (*ŋo‑s); Mand. yù.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-07-28T20:36:04.047Z
This kind of makes a bit of sense honestly, as the ancient form that I'm seeing almost resembles a highly stylized simplified picture of a monkey in a way.
prismcool
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-07-28T18:10:27.040Z
2023-07-28T18:10:27.040Z
Peter Olson
<p>After I came across the character 寓 (yù; residence), I wanted to know more about it's sound component 禺 (yú, yù; district/a mountain in Zhejiang) and it's origin.</p>
<p>Unfortunately though, there are many theories about this sound component and I cannot come to a conclusion on what this sound component original meaning or representation was.</p>
<p>Here's this sound component's ancient form for reference (Ancient forms from 小學堂):
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/MfiM1.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/MfiM1.jpg" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p>Also for reference, here are what some of the following sources say about the origin of 禺:</p>
<ul>
<li><p><strong>《說文解字》</strong>: Depiction of a kind of monkey with a ghost/demon-like head.</p>
</li>
<li><p><strong>漢語多功能字庫, Dong Chinese</strong>: Possibly a depiction of a reptile-like animal and may be related to 禹.</p>
</li>
<li><p><strong>zi.tools</strong>: Derived from 鬼, which depicts a ghost with an emphasized cranium. (Already checked the Old Chinese pronunciation, doesn't sound similar to each other.)</p>
</li>
<li><p><strong>Kanji Networks</strong>: Depicts a monkey with a curved back and a curved tail.</p>
</li>
<li><p><strong>Alex Adler, The World of Kanji p. 71</strong>: Depicts a person dancing with a skull mask on.</p>
</li>
<li><p><strong>谷衍奎《汉字源流字典》p. 457-458</strong>: Depicts a gorilla with it's head emphasized/protruding.</p>
</li>
<li><p>I've tried looking up this component in Outlier Dictionary of Chinese Characters and 季旭昇 《說文新證》 but was unable to find any information about this component. Unless if I skipped out on any pages on 《說文新證》.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>If anyone could assist in finding out the origin for this sound component, it would be much appreciated!</p>

<glyph-origin>
What is the correct origin of the sound component 禺?
# What is the correct origin of the sound component 禺?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-07-28)

After I came across the character 寓 (yù; residence), I wanted to know more about it's sound component 禺 (yú, yù; district/a mountain in Zhejiang) and it's origin.

Unfortunately though, there are many theories about this sound component and I cannot come to a conclusion on what this sound component original meaning or representation was.

Here's this sound component's ancient form for reference (Ancient forms from 小學堂):
[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/MfiM1.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/MfiM1.jpg)

Also for reference, here are what some of the following sources say about the origin of 禺:

* **《說文解字》**: Depiction of a kind of monkey with a ghost/demon-like head.
* **漢語多功能字庫, Dong Chinese**: Possibly a depiction of a reptile-like animal and may be related to 禹.
* **zi.tools**: Derived from 鬼, which depicts a ghost with an emphasized cranium. (Already checked the Old Chinese pronunciation, doesn't sound similar to each other.)
* **Kanji Networks**: Depicts a monkey with a curved back and a curved tail.
* **Alex Adler, The World of Kanji p. 71**: Depicts a person dancing with a skull mask on.
* **谷衍奎《汉字源流字典》p. 457-458**: Depicts a gorilla with it's head emphasized/protruding.
* I've tried looking up this component in Outlier Dictionary of Chinese Characters and 季旭昇 《說文新證》 but was unable to find any information about this component. Unless if I skipped out on any pages on 《說文新證》.

If anyone could assist in finding out the origin for this sound component, it would be much appreciated!

**Tags:** glyph-origin


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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2023-07-28. Score: 6 | Accepted answer

Unfortunately, I think the unsatisfying answer to this one is "nobody knows for sure".

[漢語多功能字庫](https://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk//Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E7%A6%BA)

> 「禺」字構形初義不明  
> [My translation] The origin of the form of the character 禺 is unclear.

This character has historically almost always been used as a phonetic loan for meanings unrelated to its form, so there's not a whole lot of evidence to work from.

That being said, I think the most convincing explanation among those you listed is that 禺 is a pictograph of a monkey, since 禺 seems to be cognate to words for monkey in Tibeto-Burman languages.

[https://stedt.berkeley.edu/~stedt-cgi/rootcanal.pl/etymon/2529#1.3.1](https://stedt.berkeley.edu/%7Estedt-cgi/rootcanal.pl/etymon/2529#1.3.1)

> #2529 PTB \*ŋaːw APE / MONKEY  
> Reconstructed mesoroots below:  
> PKC \*ŋaaw MONKEY (long tail / grey)  
> PCN \*ŋa MONKEY  
> Chinese comparandum  
> 禺 OC \*ngi̯u, GSR #124a-b ‘monkey’; Schuessler 2007:617 \*ŋoh; B & S 2011: (\*ŋo‑s); Mand. yù.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: This kind of makes a bit of sense honestly, as the ancient form that I'm seeing almost resembles a highly stylized simplified picture of a monkey in a way.  

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### Answer by username_1 on 2023-07-28. Score: 1

Not my forté but I find this:

> Main pronunciation 主要发音: yú
>
> Other pronunciations 其它发音: yù,yú
>
> Original meaning 本义: Meaning a snake
>
> Character decomposition 字形分解 [?]: Component 禺 from (not- 禸 róu).  
> (name- hand-holding-snake 禺 yú)
>
> Decomposition notes 字形分解说明 [?]: (- 禺 hand holding a snake)


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### Answer by username_2 on 2023-07-29. Score: 1

The content below is copied from 汉典 for your information. (<https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E7%A6%BA>)

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/T9Ew7.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/T9Ew7.png)


---

