<blockquote>
<p>雲南鐵路概說 （續）</p>
</blockquote>
<p>you missed the most important snippet: 楊得任<strong>譯</strong></p>
<p>the quoted text is a <strong>translation</strong> of foreign language text into chinese, in traditional script, a hybrid of literary and vernacular.</p>
<p>first of all, you need to chop (句讀) it correctly, before comprehension.</p>
<p>雲南鐵路概說 （續）</p>
<p>楊得任<strong>譯</strong></p>
<p>前述各端・已將本鐵路之大概情形報告完畢・要之・本路對於雲南省產業開發一層・依現在之狀態・觀之實無若何之貢獻・法人現今對於中國政府反取謙遜態度・幸中國人能以禮相待・即鐵路軍警之對於旅客及從事員等・亦極少發生橫暴或搗亂等事・惟嫌運價太貴・且通過<strong>法</strong>領時有極麻煩之手續・旅行及託運貨物等諸多不便・故不得不想在中國本國境內・自築一鐵路以求便利。</p>
<p>reverse reasoning:</p>
<p>“要之“ - in summary</p>
<p>“無若何之貢獻” - without any contribution</p>
<p>“法人” - french people</p>
<p>“法領” - territory “controled” by french government, aka french colony </p>
<p>the logic, style and the “flow” of the text, is according to western grammar, imo</p>
<p>have fun </p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-20T07:38:06.950Z
Thank you! I will use your punctuation as a guidance when adding my own in the future. I really thought 法人 should be "French people" in this context, rather than "legal person", but I have a large amount of dictionaries and none of them offered French people as a possible translation. Sometimes you should go with your gut feeling, I guess. Perhaps it's time to buy 汉语大词典. 

發 was a typo, but 續 wasn't and that was certainly crucial information.
timseb
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-20T07:49:57.253Z
I can't edit my former post, but just want to point out that I see that 續 was not a typo, but rather that I missed the 譯 character in between the headline and the text.
timseb
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-20T12:16:51.447Z
@timseb, more dictionaries? no need lah  汉语大词典? absolutely no. you’re dealing with a problem in traditional chinese. in case you’ve difficulty, ask again lah 
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-20T14:12:48.877Z
IMO it should be 依现在之状态观之 · 实无若何之贡献.
kyc
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-20T15:13:02.730Z
@kyc, yes, it’s also possible to chop the verse in this way 
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-20T01:53:04.020Z
2022-04-20T01:53:04.020Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>Chinese language was in transition from classical Chinese to modern Chinese in early 20th century. See <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Culture_Movement" rel="nofollow noreferrer">New Culture Movement</a>. This is why your example looks like both classical and modern Chinese.</p>
<p>To be honest, reading articles like this is not easy for me as well, but here are my suggestions:</p>
<ul>
<li>Add punctuation. This is the first step to understand classical Chinese.</li>
<li>Understand the words.
<ul>
<li>Take a closer look and you'll see most words are in modern Chinese. Your Chinese level should be enough for these. Example: 云南、铁路、前述、大概、情形、报告、完毕……</li>
<li>Some words (e.g. conjunctions) are from classical Chinese. Use a dictionary. Grammar books may also help here. Example: 要之 = 总之 = in short</li>
<li>Some weird words were only used at that period of time. Use Google/Stack Exchange. Example: 亚美利加 = America</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Guess for the unknown part and try to understand the whole sentences.</li>
</ul>
<p>I see several mistakes in your transcription, so maybe the difficulty also come from those traditional Chinese characters? Or they are just some typos, I'm not sure.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-19T21:32:12.540Z
Thank you for this answer. I do indeed know those words you mention (which increased the frustration of not understanding the message).  
I have edited my transcription now. I noticed quite a few typos—I'm not used to writing Chinese—but one of them was a misread from my side. It surely should be 築 rather than 策. If there are still errors they are likely due to my misreading of the characters.  
The mix between modern and Classic Chinese makes a lot of sense. Do you know of any grammar books aimed at more "modern" Classical Chinese? Practicing adding punctuation seems the most important.
timseb
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-20T14:55:23.943Z
Unfortunately I don’t know of such books. However, I think after adding punctuation for several paragraphs, you should be pretty good at this even without reading a grammar book. The other answer has a good example that you can start with.
kyc
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-19T20:21:18.037Z
2022-04-19T20:21:18.037Z
kyc
<p>I'm at a stage where I'm able to read novels, including the ones by Zhang Ailing, Bai Xianyong and the like. I have now reached the point where I need to start venturing into (somewhat) early 20th century magazines, for future research. Many of them seem to be in classical Chinese and lack punctuation. My goal is being able to read these magazines without too much effort, rather than ancient texts.</p>
<p>I have attached a screenshot from on of the magazines. I have no problems transcribing it, but I'm pretty clueless about what it actually tries to tell me. Do you have any recommendations on where to move on from here? Are Classical Chinese grammar books (with usage examples from ancient texts) the best way forward? Part of me thinks these articles are closer to modern Chinese than it might seem, and that it's more down to venturing into a new genre that is causing me trouble.</p>
<p>My transcription of the first four lines:</p>
<p><strong>雲南鐵路概說 （續）</strong></p>
<p>前述各端已將本鐵路之大概情形報告完畢要之本路對於雲南省產業開發一層依現在之狀態觀之實無若何之貢獻法人現今對於中國政府反取謙遜態度幸中國人能以禮相待即鐵路軍警之對於旅客及從事員等亦極少發生橫暴或搗亂等事惟嫌運價太貴且通過發領時有極麻煩之手續旅行及託運貨物等諸多不便故不得不想在中國本國境內自築一鐵路以求便利。</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/nQ3EM.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/nQ3EM.png" alt="Page scan" /></a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-19T17:47:56.720Z
This is not classical Chinese. It is an excerpt from a report on Yunnan's railroad. It's not really that technical but you do need some background knowledge to be able to fully understand it.
joehua
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-04-19T17:57:15.443Z
I know it's from a railroad report, which I should have mentioned in my first post. It's an excerpt from a train magazine. As I wrote it didn't really look like classical Chinese to me, but it also doesn't like like the modern Chinese I've encountered so far—especially the lack of punctuation but also some other stuff. So I'm still interested in recommendations on how to learn to read such texts. Surely background knowledge is not the only factor. I would not have any problem understanding the grammar of an English report on the same subject.
timseb
<grammar><classical-chinese><resources>
Reading older Chinese magazines
# Reading older Chinese magazines

(Asked by: username_0 on 2022-04-19)

I'm at a stage where I'm able to read novels, including the ones by Zhang Ailing, Bai Xianyong and the like. I have now reached the point where I need to start venturing into (somewhat) early 20th century magazines, for future research. Many of them seem to be in classical Chinese and lack punctuation. My goal is being able to read these magazines without too much effort, rather than ancient texts.

I have attached a screenshot from on of the magazines. I have no problems transcribing it, but I'm pretty clueless about what it actually tries to tell me. Do you have any recommendations on where to move on from here? Are Classical Chinese grammar books (with usage examples from ancient texts) the best way forward? Part of me thinks these articles are closer to modern Chinese than it might seem, and that it's more down to venturing into a new genre that is causing me trouble.

My transcription of the first four lines:

**雲南鐵路概說 （續）**

前述各端已將本鐵路之大概情形報告完畢要之本路對於雲南省產業開發一層依現在之狀態觀之實無若何之貢獻法人現今對於中國政府反取謙遜態度幸中國人能以禮相待即鐵路軍警之對於旅客及從事員等亦極少發生橫暴或搗亂等事惟嫌運價太貴且通過發領時有極麻煩之手續旅行及託運貨物等諸多不便故不得不想在中國本國境內自築一鐵路以求便利。

[![Page scan](https://i.sstatic.net/nQ3EM.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/nQ3EM.png)

**Tags:** grammar, classical-chinese, resources

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: This is not classical Chinese. It is an excerpt from a report on Yunnan's railroad. It's not really that technical but you do need some background knowledge to be able to fully understand it.  
> **username_0**: I know it's from a railroad report, which I should have mentioned in my first post. It's an excerpt from a train magazine. As I wrote it didn't really look like classical Chinese to me, but it also doesn't like like the modern Chinese I've encountered so far—especially the lack of punctuation but also some other stuff. So I'm still interested in recommendations on how to learn to read such texts. Surely background knowledge is not the only factor. I would not have any problem understanding the grammar of an English report on the same subject.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2022-04-20. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

> 雲南鐵路概說 （續）

you missed the most important snippet: 楊得任**譯**

the quoted text is a **translation** of foreign language text into chinese, in traditional script, a hybrid of literary and vernacular.

first of all, you need to chop (句讀) it correctly, before comprehension.

雲南鐵路概說 （續）

楊得任**譯**

前述各端・已將本鐵路之大概情形報告完畢・要之・本路對於雲南省產業開發一層・依現在之狀態・觀之實無若何之貢獻・法人現今對於中國政府反取謙遜態度・幸中國人能以禮相待・即鐵路軍警之對於旅客及從事員等・亦極少發生橫暴或搗亂等事・惟嫌運價太貴・且通過**法**領時有極麻煩之手續・旅行及託運貨物等諸多不便・故不得不想在中國本國境內・自築一鐵路以求便利。

reverse reasoning:

“要之“ - in summary

“無若何之貢獻” - without any contribution

“法人” - french people

“法領” - territory “controled” by french government, aka french colony

the logic, style and the “flow” of the text, is according to western grammar, imo

have fun

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you! I will use your punctuation as a guidance when adding my own in the future. I really thought 法人 should be "French people" in this context, rather than "legal person", but I have a large amount of dictionaries and none of them offered French people as a possible translation. Sometimes you should go with your gut feeling, I guess. Perhaps it's time to buy 汉语大词典.   發 was a typo, but 續 wasn't and that was certainly crucial information.  
> **username_0**: I can't edit my former post, but just want to point out that I see that 續 was not a typo, but rather that I missed the 譯 character in between the headline and the text.  
> **username_2**: @username_0, more dictionaries? no need lah  汉语大词典? absolutely no. you’re dealing with a problem in traditional chinese. in case you’ve difficulty, ask again lah   
> **username_3**: IMO it should be 依现在之状态观之 · 实无若何之贡献.  
> **username_2**: @username_3, yes, it’s also possible to chop the verse in this way   

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2022-04-19. Score: 1

Chinese language was in transition from classical Chinese to modern Chinese in early 20th century. See [New Culture Movement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Culture_Movement). This is why your example looks like both classical and modern Chinese.

To be honest, reading articles like this is not easy for me as well, but here are my suggestions:

* Add punctuation. This is the first step to understand classical Chinese.
* Understand the words.
  + Take a closer look and you'll see most words are in modern Chinese. Your Chinese level should be enough for these. Example: 云南、铁路、前述、大概、情形、报告、完毕……
  + Some words (e.g. conjunctions) are from classical Chinese. Use a dictionary. Grammar books may also help here. Example: 要之 = 总之 = in short
  + Some weird words were only used at that period of time. Use Google/Stack Exchange. Example: 亚美利加 = America
* Guess for the unknown part and try to understand the whole sentences.

I see several mistakes in your transcription, so maybe the difficulty also come from those traditional Chinese characters? Or they are just some typos, I'm not sure.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you for this answer. I do indeed know those words you mention (which increased the frustration of not understanding the message).   I have edited my transcription now. I noticed quite a few typos—I'm not used to writing Chinese—but one of them was a misread from my side. It surely should be 築 rather than 策. If there are still errors they are likely due to my misreading of the characters.   The mix between modern and Classic Chinese makes a lot of sense. Do you know of any grammar books aimed at more "modern" Classical Chinese? Practicing adding punctuation seems the most important.  
> **username_3**: Unfortunately I don’t know of such books. However, I think after adding punctuation for several paragraphs, you should be pretty good at this even without reading a grammar book. The other answer has a good example that you can start with.  

---

