<p>For Deduction</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Definition of Deduction: (From Webster's Dict)</p>
  
  <ol>
  <li>a :  an act of taking away
  b :  something that is or may be subtracted </li>
  <li>a :  the deriving of a conclusion by reasoning
  b :  a conclusion reached by logical deduction</li>
  </ol>
</blockquote>

<p>Let check the 演绎</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Definition of 演绎:(I don't have official Chinese dictionary on hand so I used my common sense)</p>
  
  <ol>
  <li>verb. Acting, Show</li>
  <li>noun. the process of getting a conclusion by logical reasoning.(as poopsed to 'sum up')</li>
  </ol>
</blockquote>

<p>Let be aware of the history of word'演绎'. For the English-Chinese translation experts(around the 1900s), using the '演绎' was the reasonable choice at that time. </p>

<p>And since it's like more than 100 years. I believe nobody would remember who firstly use this word. It's naturally used because its meaning of so close(or even the same) to "deduction". </p>

<p>The same logic could be applied to "米国"(Japanese) and "USA"(English). No one ever remembers who created "米国"</p>

<p>There's a detailed <a href="https://notesbooks.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/%E3%80%8C%E6%BC%94%E8%AD%AF%E3%80%8D%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E7%8F%BE%E4%BB%A3%E6%BC%A2%E8%AA%9E/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">blog</a> regarding ancient usage of 演绎 and演译.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-19T18:54:25.177Z
@GeorgeChen the ancient's definition is similar what we used(in the logical area) today.
Kevman
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-19T23:54:55.640Z
演 originally means long flowing river. Now it means perform, deduce, evolve. If only someone can explain how the meanings of this character have travelled this far.
George Chen
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-20T02:13:16.973Z
@GeorgeChen Search“衍”&“演”. Possibly an interchangeable word pair. Quote "通“衍”。推演［deduce］

　　　　　於是敷演舊章,奏而改焉。――《三國志·高堂隆傳》

　　　　　敷演皇極,流化萬里。――《三國志·胡綜傳》"
Kevman
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-20T04:12:59.940Z
Here is my problem: I'm not sure if 推演 really means deduce at ancient times. I need evidence.
George Chen
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-20T08:56:59.067Z
@GeorgeChen The evidence you required: 漢 陸賈 《新語‧明誡》： “觀天之化， 推演萬事之類。” 
   ▶ 《三國志‧蜀志‧諸葛亮傳》： “推演兵法， 作八陳圖， 咸得其要云。” 
   ▶ 《朱子語類》卷四七： “最苦是世間所謂聰明之人卻去推演其（釋氏）說。” 
   ▶ 明 歸有光 《＜經序錄＞序》： “然雖有成書， 而多所未盡， 賴後人因其端以推演之。”
ltux
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-20T13:10:42.617Z
@ltux - Thanks. Based on these uses, it probably means to make inferences from here to there, or to develop an argument based on a known text. It is very akin to deduction, but I don't think it means deduction in the modern sense, not even in Aristotle's sense. That is why I'd like to find out who the translator was, and what was his understanding of this word.
George Chen
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-21T09:46:07.430Z
"I don't think it means deduction in the modern sense". It doesn't need to be exactly the same. Similarity does give enough reasonableness for translation. Aristotle's syllogism is just a summarization of something that has long be used before Aristole. Before Aristotle gave the definition of syllogism, people are already using it as a deduction method, even they didn't give this method a name or clear definition. ->
ltux
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-21T09:53:04.363Z
Ancient Chinese may not have a word that means deduction exactly the same as in the modern sense, but they may have some word means something similar to deduction in the morden sense, for example, 演绎. So the guy who first encountered the word deductioin just translate it to 演绎. He didn't find a one-to-one mapping of the word between the two languages, so he chose a word which means similar.
ltux
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-21T11:21:05.560Z
Another example is the translation of the title of nobility. Ancient Britain and China each developed their own peerage system. They are different without a shadow of a doubt. Then why duke, marquis, earl, viscount, baron are translated to the title of nobility of ancient China 公爵, 候爵, 伯爵, 子爵, 男爵 respectively? After all, since China has a similar system of title of nobility, why bother coining new words for translation?
ltux
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-21T15:13:40.863Z
This is the fascinating part. People were using deductive reasoning before there were rules of deduction. How did people settle arguments when there were no rules to begin with? They must have relied on some raw common senses. What were these common senses? Pardon me for being pettifogging. I think the translator's mind is a huge clue. He might be a very famous person except that his work is forgotten.
George Chen
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-21T15:58:27.630Z
@GeorgeChen since the deductive reasoning both happens at western and Chinese culture. It far beyond the language/culture itself. You are asking a question regarding the human common culture. Not a specific language/culture question.
Kevman
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-21T17:09:39.187Z
It is. Deductive reasoning in China is rudimentary, but exactly for this reason, China is a treasure trove for anthropologists who are interested in how the mind works. I'm trying to dig out a very important historical clue.
George Chen
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-19T18:48:31.847Z
2017-05-19T19:00:16.637Z
2017-05-19T19:00:16.637Z
Kevman
<p>The English word <em>deductive</em>'s Chinese counter part, 演绎, is the same as its Japanese counterpart 演繹.</p>

<p>Since China imported a lot of words from Japan in the early 1900s, it is very likely that this translation of <em>deductive</em> was also imported from Japan. Therefore that remarkable individual I am looking for is very likely to be a Japanese.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-23T00:05:18.877Z
Very unlikely. I searched the original of Japanese "演繹". And it linked back to 《朱子語類》 Ref :http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E6%BC%94%E7%B9%B9 . Which is not surprised since Chinese culture affected Japanese culture in the ancient time.
Kevman
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-23T01:53:47.237Z
Please pay attention to my wording. I actually put quite a bit of thoughts in it: it was the translation, i.e. the link between *deduction* and 演繹 that was established by a Japanese person and latter was imported by China. Of course 演繹 originally came from the glorious nation of China; what I meant is that its modern meaning was very likely assigned by a Japanese scholar, probably a very famous person.
George Chen
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-21T21:50:10.563Z
2017-05-21T23:19:31.653Z
2017-05-21T23:19:31.653Z
George Chen
<p>The word 演绎 had been used by Chinese literati long before it acquired the precise modern meaning. </p>

<p>I wonder exactly who made the link between <em>演绎</em> and <em>deduction</em>?</p>

<p>The <a href="http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=mJJmgYH65gDdahdPEr-uSacYNtU7Z_mYpn35_JtmJlsdYmD1M_Dnif9mYTm7Uj-N--06CQ56QEHv5AW5_f0hcPU2vi_6zOXrHVcdkcjmaMa" rel="nofollow noreferrer">definition on baidu</a> makes you want to puke. It gives ancient use cases followed by modern definitions. Did ancients understand 演绎 as modern Chinese do? What was the ancients' definition of 演绎?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-20T09:13:45.250Z
“It gives ancient use cases followed by modern definitions.” Then you can check whether 演绎 means deduction in the "ancient use cases".
ltux
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-05-20T14:27:50.560Z
We need sources like this to raise the level of scholarship on this site: http://www.docin.com/p-1508708233.html
George Chen
<translation><history>
Who translated "deductive reasoning" into 演绎推理?
# Who translated "deductive reasoning" into 演绎推理?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-05-19)

The word 演绎 had been used by Chinese literati long before it acquired the precise modern meaning.

I wonder exactly who made the link between *演绎* and *deduction*?

The [definition on baidu](http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=mJJmgYH65gDdahdPEr-uSacYNtU7Z_mYpn35_JtmJlsdYmD1M_Dnif9mYTm7Uj-N--06CQ56QEHv5AW5_f0hcPU2vi_6zOXrHVcdkcjmaMa) makes you want to puke. It gives ancient use cases followed by modern definitions. Did ancients understand 演绎 as modern Chinese do? What was the ancients' definition of 演绎?

**Tags:** translation, history

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: “It gives ancient use cases followed by modern definitions.” Then you can check whether 演绎 means deduction in the "ancient use cases".  
> **username_0**: We need sources like this to raise the level of scholarship on this site: http://www.docin.com/p-1508708233.html  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2017-05-19. Score: 2

For Deduction

> Definition of Deduction: (From Webster's Dict)
>
> 1. a : an act of taking away
>    b : something that is or may be subtracted
> 2. a : the deriving of a conclusion by reasoning
>    b : a conclusion reached by logical deduction

Let check the 演绎

> Definition of 演绎:(I don't have official Chinese dictionary on hand so I used my common sense)
>
> 1. verb. Acting, Show
> 2. noun. the process of getting a conclusion by logical reasoning.(as poopsed to 'sum up')

Let be aware of the history of word'演绎'. For the English-Chinese translation experts(around the 1900s), using the '演绎' was the reasonable choice at that time.

And since it's like more than 100 years. I believe nobody would remember who firstly use this word. It's naturally used because its meaning of so close(or even the same) to "deduction".

The same logic could be applied to "米国"(Japanese) and "USA"(English). No one ever remembers who created "米国"

There's a detailed [blog](https://notesbooks.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/%E3%80%8C%E6%BC%94%E8%AD%AF%E3%80%8D%E4%B8%8D%E6%98%AF%E7%8F%BE%E4%BB%A3%E6%BC%A2%E8%AA%9E/) regarding ancient usage of 演绎 and演译.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: @username_0 the ancient's definition is similar what we used(in the logical area) today.  
> **username_0**: 演 originally means long flowing river. Now it means perform, deduce, evolve. If only someone can explain how the meanings of this character have travelled this far.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 Search“衍”&“演”. Possibly an interchangeable word pair. Quote "通“衍”。推演［deduce］  　　　　　於是敷演舊章,奏而改焉。――《三國志·高堂隆傳》  　　　　　敷演皇極,流化萬里。――《三國志·胡綜傳》"  
> **username_0**: Here is my problem: I'm not sure if 推演 really means deduce at ancient times. I need evidence.  
> **username_1**: @username_0 The evidence you required: 漢 陸賈 《新語‧明誡》： “觀天之化， 推演萬事之類。”     ▶ 《三國志‧蜀志‧諸葛亮傳》： “推演兵法， 作八陳圖， 咸得其要云。”     ▶ 《朱子語類》卷四七： “最苦是世間所謂聰明之人卻去推演其（釋氏）說。”     ▶ 明 歸有光 《＜經序錄＞序》： “然雖有成書， 而多所未盡， 賴後人因其端以推演之。”  
> **username_0**: @username_1 - Thanks. Based on these uses, it probably means to make inferences from here to there, or to develop an argument based on a known text. It is very akin to deduction, but I don't think it means deduction in the modern sense, not even in Aristotle's sense. That is why I'd like to find out who the translator was, and what was his understanding of this word.  
> **username_1**: "I don't think it means deduction in the modern sense". It doesn't need to be exactly the same. Similarity does give enough reasonableness for translation. Aristotle's syllogism is just a summarization of something that has long be used before Aristole. Before Aristotle gave the definition of syllogism, people are already using it as a deduction method, even they didn't give this method a name or clear definition. ->  
> **username_1**: Ancient Chinese may not have a word that means deduction exactly the same as in the modern sense, but they may have some word means something similar to deduction in the morden sense, for example, 演绎. So the guy who first encountered the word deductioin just translate it to 演绎. He didn't find a one-to-one mapping of the word between the two languages, so he chose a word which means similar.  
> **username_1**: Another example is the translation of the title of nobility. Ancient Britain and China each developed their own peerage system. They are different without a shadow of a doubt. Then why duke, marquis, earl, viscount, baron are translated to the title of nobility of ancient China 公爵, 候爵, 伯爵, 子爵, 男爵 respectively? After all, since China has a similar system of title of nobility, why bother coining new words for translation?  
> **username_0**: This is the fascinating part. People were using deductive reasoning before there were rules of deduction. How did people settle arguments when there were no rules to begin with? They must have relied on some raw common senses. What were these common senses? Pardon me for being pettifogging. I think the translator's mind is a huge clue. He might be a very famous person except that his work is forgotten.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 since the deductive reasoning both happens at western and Chinese culture. It far beyond the language/culture itself. You are asking a question regarding the human common culture. Not a specific language/culture question.  
> **username_0**: It is. Deductive reasoning in China is rudimentary, but exactly for this reason, China is a treasure trove for anthropologists who are interested in how the mind works. I'm trying to dig out a very important historical clue.  

---

### Answer by username_0 on 2017-05-21. Score: 0

The English word *deductive*'s Chinese counter part, 演绎, is the same as its Japanese counterpart 演繹.

Since China imported a lot of words from Japan in the early 1900s, it is very likely that this translation of *deductive* was also imported from Japan. Therefore that remarkable individual I am looking for is very likely to be a Japanese.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Very unlikely. I searched the original of Japanese "演繹". And it linked back to 《朱子語類》 Ref :http://www.weblio.jp/content/%E6%BC%94%E7%B9%B9 . Which is not surprised since Chinese culture affected Japanese culture in the ancient time.  
> **username_0**: Please pay attention to my wording. I actually put quite a bit of thoughts in it: it was the translation, i.e. the link between *deduction* and 演繹 that was established by a Japanese person and latter was imported by China. Of course 演繹 originally came from the glorious nation of China; what I meant is that its modern meaning was very likely assigned by a Japanese scholar, probably a very famous person.  

---

