<p>As far as I can tell, Hong Kong uses the Wade-Giles system to transliterate Cantonese into English.</p>
<p>BTW, the combination &quot;tsz&quot; is still in used today.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-06T05:32:49.417Z
I'm curious how can the combination `Tsz` can be divided in terms of initials(聲母) and finals(韻母)? It looks all 3 are consonants to me.
fluter
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-06T23:37:59.460Z
Can you provide some references? Wade-Giles is a system of **Mandarin** romanisation. Maybe you're thinking of [Yale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_romanization_of_Cantonese)?
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-07T01:20:19.370Z
@dROOOze Yale appeared on the scene way too late. Maybe parts of it was later adopted.
fat penguin
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-06T03:43:40.670Z
2024-05-06T03:43:40.670Z
fat penguin
<p>there’re several romanisations of cantonese since 19th century, “ts” was used mainly before 1900s (“ch” was preferred afterward)</p>
<p>if, a place name in hong kong, that it’s romanisation is difference from the usual; most likely, it was based on an older romanisation scheme.</p>
<p>eg: the dictionary “a tonic dictionary of the chinese language in the canton dialect”, published in 1856, page 719 has “慈” as “tsz”</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/UwADQsED.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/UwADQsED.jpg" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p><a href="https://archive.org/details/tonicdictionaryo00will" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://archive.org/details/tonicdictionaryo00will</a></p>
<p>have fun :)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-04T14:40:03.637Z
2024-05-04T14:40:03.637Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>You may wish to refer to the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Government_Cantonese_Romanisation" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Hong Kong Government Cantonese Romanisation</a>, which is still to this day used to transliterate place names and people's names (e.g., Tsz Ching is a very common name).</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-09T00:24:20.063Z
Thanks for this - this is the correct answer.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-08T13:09:10.130Z
2024-05-08T13:09:10.130Z
Chun Hei Chau
<p>This goes back to 19th century Cantonese, as recorded e.g. in <a href="https://archive.org/details/atonicdictionar00willgoog/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Wells' 1856 tome</a> <em>A tonic dictionary of the Chinese language in the Canton dialect</em>, with particular emphasis on the phonology of the 西關 Xiguan district of Guangzhou.</p>
<p>A clear distinction between /i/ and the apical vowel /ɿ/ (also transcribed /ź̩~ɯ~ɨ/ in more conventional IPA) is noted. The distribution of this apical vowel is more restricted than in the Beijing Mandarin of the time, only occurring after /s/, /ts/, /tsʰ/ as an allophone of /i/. Thus 慈 /tsʰź̩/ is distinguished from 遲 /tʃʰi/, the latter having a different initial to the former.</p>
<p>In more modern Cantonese, the apical vowels merged into the /i/ vowels along with the loss of the alveolar vs palatal distinctions in the affricates and sibilants. But the distinction persisted into the 20th century in some speakers, and it was prestigious enough to have <a href="https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-15-2743-2_8" rel="nofollow noreferrer">been recorded on film</a>.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-07T02:05:07.500Z
bravo, my salute  another book “a chinese chrestomathy in the canton dialect”, published in 1841, page 21, also mentioned “詞似自” as tsz https://archive.org/details/chinesechrestoma00brid_1/page/n20/mode/1up
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-06T22:16:58.057Z
2024-05-06T22:16:58.057Z
Michaelyus
<p>Taking an example, the place in Hong Kong called <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsz_Wan_Shan" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><code>Tsz Wan Shan</code></a>(慈雲山), the 1st character is <code>Tsz</code>, but in the <a href="https://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">cuhk's database</a>, there is no such notation in the list of the initials/consonants(聲母), is the initial 'T' or 'TSZ'? What's the right way to look up this character in Cantonese?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-04T09:30:19.980Z
“Tsz Wan Shan” does not look like something from a romanisation system; it looks like an ad-hoc approximation. The CUHK link you posted supports Jyutping (粵拼; select initial, final, and tone under the option 選擇粵音), you should just use that for lookup (ci4 wan4 saan1).
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-04T11:13:09.047Z
What exactly is an ad-hoc approximation? Is there any rules? I mean those plates are made by the government not individual person.
fluter
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-05-06T03:45:13.387Z
The CUHK database does not use the Wade-Giles system, which was (and still is) the official transliteration system used in Hong Kong.
fat penguin
<cantonese><traditional-characters><hong-kong>
What is the phonetic notation used in hong kong plate?
# What is the phonetic notation used in hong kong plate?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-05-04)

Taking an example, the place in Hong Kong called [`Tsz Wan Shan`](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsz_Wan_Shan)(慈雲山), the 1st character is `Tsz`, but in the [cuhk's database](https://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-can/), there is no such notation in the list of the initials/consonants(聲母), is the initial 'T' or 'TSZ'? What's the right way to look up this character in Cantonese?

**Tags:** cantonese, traditional-characters, hong-kong

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: “Tsz Wan Shan” does not look like something from a romanisation system; it looks like an ad-hoc approximation. The CUHK link you posted supports Jyutping (粵拼; select initial, final, and tone under the option 選擇粵音), you should just use that for lookup (ci4 wan4 saan1).  
> **username_0**: What exactly is an ad-hoc approximation? Is there any rules? I mean those plates are made by the government not individual person.  
> **username_2**: The CUHK database does not use the Wade-Giles system, which was (and still is) the official transliteration system used in Hong Kong.  

---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2024-05-06. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

As far as I can tell, Hong Kong uses the Wade-Giles system to transliterate Cantonese into English.

BTW, the combination "tsz" is still in used today.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I'm curious how can the combination `Tsz` can be divided in terms of initials(聲母) and finals(韻母)? It looks all 3 are consonants to me.  
> **username_1**: Can you provide some references? Wade-Giles is a system of **Mandarin** romanisation. Maybe you're thinking of [Yale](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yale_romanization_of_Cantonese)?  
> **username_2**: @username_1 Yale appeared on the scene way too late. Maybe parts of it was later adopted.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2024-05-04. Score: 3

there’re several romanisations of cantonese since 19th century, “ts” was used mainly before 1900s (“ch” was preferred afterward)

if, a place name in hong kong, that it’s romanisation is difference from the usual; most likely, it was based on an older romanisation scheme.

eg: the dictionary “a tonic dictionary of the chinese language in the canton dialect”, published in 1856, page 719 has “慈” as “tsz”

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/UwADQsED.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/UwADQsED.jpg)

<https://archive.org/details/tonicdictionaryo00will>

have fun :)


---

### Answer by username_4 on 2024-05-08. Score: 2

You may wish to refer to the [Hong Kong Government Cantonese Romanisation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hong_Kong_Government_Cantonese_Romanisation), which is still to this day used to transliterate place names and people's names (e.g., Tsz Ching is a very common name).

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Thanks for this - this is the correct answer.  

---

### Answer by username_5 on 2024-05-06. Score: 2

This goes back to 19th century Cantonese, as recorded e.g. in [Wells' 1856 tome](https://archive.org/details/atonicdictionar00willgoog/) *A tonic dictionary of the Chinese language in the Canton dialect*, with particular emphasis on the phonology of the 西關 Xiguan district of Guangzhou.

A clear distinction between /i/ and the apical vowel /ɿ/ (also transcribed /ź̩~ɯ~ɨ/ in more conventional IPA) is noted. The distribution of this apical vowel is more restricted than in the Beijing Mandarin of the time, only occurring after /s/, /ts/, /tsʰ/ as an allophone of /i/. Thus 慈 /tsʰź̩/ is distinguished from 遲 /tʃʰi/, the latter having a different initial to the former.

In more modern Cantonese, the apical vowels merged into the /i/ vowels along with the loss of the alveolar vs palatal distinctions in the affricates and sibilants. But the distinction persisted into the 20th century in some speakers, and it was prestigious enough to have [been recorded on film](https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-981-15-2743-2_8).

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: bravo, my salute  another book “a chinese chrestomathy in the canton dialect”, published in 1841, page 21, also mentioned “詞似自” as tsz https://archive.org/details/chinesechrestoma00brid_1/page/n20/mode/1up  

---

