<p>Yes or No.</p>

<p>In Chinese linguistic study, there are three rules of distinguishing dialects from languages:</p>

<ol>
<li>Linguistically, mutual intelligibility</li>
<li>Historically, derivation</li>
<li>Politically, anything except the standard</li>
</ol>

<p>Dialects are picked out mainly because MSM gets politically recognized as a standard in China Mainland.</p>

<p>In practice, a minor reason is that they do not have matured or accurate writing system.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-03T11:52:11.373Z
Just wish it wasn't so 牵强
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-03T10:11:56.837Z
2017-03-03T10:11:56.837Z
Keyu Gan
<p>[Perhaps this is a "which came first - the chicken or the egg?"-type question - but I'm left quite puzzled why anyone would describe things in this manner.]</p>

<p>Why would anyone (or any material for that matter) describe dialects/topolects in terms of Mandarin? Most topolects/dialects would certainly be much older than MSM (Modern Standard Mandarin) - as a, relatively, new 'invented' language.</p>

<p>e.g.: 广安方言与民俗词典 describes a bunch of 广安方言 in terms of: </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>声母变异</p>
</blockquote>

<p>and</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>韵母变异</p>
</blockquote>

<p>even going as far to describe some words as:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>自创音节</p>
</blockquote>

<p>here's some examples:</p>

<p>声母变异: “敲” kao1 - “qiao1”的音变。指打，击。</p>

<p>韵母变异: “眉” mi2 - 眉“mei2”的音变。如“眉毛”、“峨眉豆”等。</p>

<p>自创音节: “□” pie4 - "指破烂，坏，不好。常写成“孬”。</p>

<p>I <strong>highly</strong> doubt that these are "变异" seeing as these pronunciations outdate the modern "standard" ones - so why would anyone go to the trouble of describing it this way? besides the fact that MSM is the, now, "standard"?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-03T11:55:34.433Z
I've never come across a respected linguistic dictionary of 廣東話 or even 上海話 which uses 变异 in that way; however, I can imagine that various phonological forms would seem close enough to be presented as a "variation" of 普通話.
Michaelyus
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-03-03T14:53:27.227Z
@Michaelyus Yeah, there are other **glaring** problems with this publication - wasn't sure whether it could be be deemed *respected* or not.
Mou某
<topolect><terminology>
Why would topolects get described in terms of Mandarin? (声母变异、韵母变异)
# Why would topolects get described in terms of Mandarin? (声母变异、韵母变异)

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-03-03)

[Perhaps this is a "which came first - the chicken or the egg?"-type question - but I'm left quite puzzled why anyone would describe things in this manner.]

Why would anyone (or any material for that matter) describe dialects/topolects in terms of Mandarin? Most topolects/dialects would certainly be much older than MSM (Modern Standard Mandarin) - as a, relatively, new 'invented' language.

e.g.: 广安方言与民俗词典 describes a bunch of 广安方言 in terms of:

> 声母变异

and

> 韵母变异

even going as far to describe some words as:

> 自创音节

here's some examples:

声母变异: “敲” kao1 - “qiao1”的音变。指打，击。

韵母变异: “眉” mi2 - 眉“mei2”的音变。如“眉毛”、“峨眉豆”等。

自创音节: “□” pie4 - "指破烂，坏，不好。常写成“孬”。

I **highly** doubt that these are "变异" seeing as these pronunciations outdate the modern "standard" ones - so why would anyone go to the trouble of describing it this way? besides the fact that MSM is the, now, "standard"?

**Tags:** topolect, terminology

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I've never come across a respected linguistic dictionary of 廣東話 or even 上海話 which uses 变异 in that way; however, I can imagine that various phonological forms would seem close enough to be presented as a "variation" of 普通話.  
> **username_0**: @username_1 Yeah, there are other **glaring** problems with this publication - wasn't sure whether it could be be deemed *respected* or not.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2017-03-03. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

Yes or No.

In Chinese linguistic study, there are three rules of distinguishing dialects from languages:

1. Linguistically, mutual intelligibility
2. Historically, derivation
3. Politically, anything except the standard

Dialects are picked out mainly because MSM gets politically recognized as a standard in China Mainland.

In practice, a minor reason is that they do not have matured or accurate writing system.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Just wish it wasn't so 牵强  

---

