<p>I read 成 as referring to 'accomplishments' strictly in the sense of 'conceptual/verbal achievements', ie, <em>successful attempts to conceptualise things verbally</em>.</p>
<p>I therefore like both Graham's and Legge's translations, which I would hazard to render, by way of both an alternative phrasing and a partial answer to your question, as:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>&quot;The Way is obscured in <em>fine</em>[r and finer] <em>distinctions</em>&quot;</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The sense here is that the more you define and analyse, the more you lose the forest for the trees.</p>
<p>In more prosaic terms, we refer to the same thing when we talk of the truth of the matter being obfuscated by '<em>abstract terms</em>' or, ironically (with respect to the literal form of 小成), '<em>big words</em>'.</p>
<p>Whether or not this term occurs in the sort of pre-imperial or Han literature you refer to, I find it hard to believe that such a phrase would ever develop a specialised and uniform idiomatic sense outside of context.</p>

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2024-09-08T18:55:05.990Z
Re: "I read 成 as referring to 'accomplishments' strictly in the sense of 'conceptual/verbal achievements', ie, successful attempts to conceptualise [sic] things verbally." 小成 here clearly have a deeper meaning than just "verbal achievements".
Admirer of the dragon flag
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2024-09-08T18:57:34.583Z
Actually, Chinese philosophy never even believed anything can be known by just verbal communication. This idea is rather different than contemporary western philosophy. The Chinese thought that every person must find the truth and "道" themselves, and also that even if a person can provide a compelling argument to describe/prove "道" , it does not necessarily mean that person had fully understood all aspects of "道".
Admirer of the dragon flag
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2024-09-08T18:58:28.543Z
Personally, I hold an open-minded attitude towards contemporary philosophical views, and I believe that both eastern and western philosophy are correct in their own way. However, when discussing Chinese philosophical concepts, especially when discussing 道家, we should use the Chinese philosophical views.
Admirer of the dragon flag
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2024-09-09T09:02:10.853Z
Yes, that's my point. Any attempt to conceptualise the 道 in thought or words is pointless. That's why any such small achievement (小成) in that direction is described as obfuscating/meaningless here.
Sanchuan
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2024-09-06T19:19:50.837Z
2024-09-06T19:19:50.837Z
Sanchuan
<p>Think Trigrams?  易经？</p>
<p>小成：</p>
<p>谓先成八卦，引申而为六十四卦。故八卦亦名“小成卦”。<br />
Originally known as Eight Trigrams, (it was) extended to become the 64 Hexagrams, the former  Eight Trigrams (were then) also known as “小成卦” (Less is more!)</p>
<p>例句：</p>
<p>在解读易经时，我深入研究了小成卦的含义，发现它蕴含着丰富的哲理。</p>
<p>道隱於小成<br />
The Dao lies hidden yo, (in the) Eight Trigrams</p>
<p>Do you really want to know the future?</p>

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2024-09-08T07:14:47.943Z
I don't think 小成 has any direct relation with 八卦 in this context.
Admirer of the dragon flag
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2024-09-08T13:05:56.870Z
You could be right, I am not an expert on Ancient Chinese. What do you suggest?
Pedroski
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2024-09-08T18:31:39.747Z
Basically, I think the main point here is "成", and the meaning of "成" in turn is related to the meaning of "道" in this case. "道", probably *is* related to traditional Chinese philosophy, including 易学 (the study of 《易经》). So essentially, I don't think you're wrong that the meaning of "成" is related to 《易经》, but probably not *that directly*. Please check out my answer below for more of my thoughts.
Admirer of the dragon flag
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2024-09-06T19:07:03.080Z
2024-09-06T19:07:03.080Z
Pedroski
<p>《齊物論》, written by famous 道家 philosopher 莊子, is written more than two thousand years ago, thus the words and phrases used are Archaic (Old) Chinese. As a result, we can only guess at what he meant by &quot;道隱於小成，言隱於榮華&quot;. However, there are two main possibilities (and two alternatives) that are all quite plausible:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Biased or perceptionary views made by individuals; those who do not see 道 fully and in its complete form, and reach conclusions about what 道 is based on their own perceptions and views. For example, an article on the website 搜狐 states: <a href="https://www.sohu.com/a/746426406_121194830" rel="nofollow noreferrer">在庄子的理论中，道是宇宙的本源和规律，是无所不在、无所不包的。然而，人们常常只看到道的局部和表面，而忽视了其整体和本质。</a>, meaning (last sentence only, approx.) : &quot;People often only see the Way (道) partially, and tends to omit the overall meaning of the Way (道)&quot;. <a href="https://fc.iwant-in.net/?p=80994" rel="nofollow noreferrer">This</a> provides supplementary information.</p>
</li>
<li><p>Small (or little) accomplishments. For example, in 古诗文网, it translates &quot;道隐于小成，言隐于荣华。&quot; as &quot;大道容易被小的成就遮蔽，花言巧语容易掩盖真言。&quot; (rough English translation: &quot;The Way (道) is easily shadowed by little accomplishments, and rhetoric speech can easily mask the truth.&quot;). 古诗文网 specifically defines 小成 as <a href="https://www.gushiwen.cn/mingju/juv_ed92db1e4b05.aspx" rel="nofollow noreferrer">小成：略有成就。</a> (en: 小成：small or little accomplishments).</p>
</li>
<li><p>The two possible meanings stated above are the most probable, and the more &quot;main-stream&quot; possibilities, so to speak. However, there are another two very probable meanings that may not have been agreed upon by that many people. Thus, I will list them here as alternative possibilities:</p>
<ul>
<li>Alternative meaning 1: Little things; little events, thoughts, or objects (i.e., 事物). While similar to number 2 above, this does not necessarily mean &quot;accomplishments&quot;, and can be anything small. In another article on 搜狐, it states that 小成，<a href="https://www.sohu.com/a/776598769_121845439#:%7E:text=%E8%BF%99%E5%8F%A5%E8%AF%9D%E2%80%9C%E9%81%93%E9%9A%90,%E5%8D%8E%E4%B8%BD%E7%9A%84%E8%A8%80%E8%BE%9E%E6%89%80%E6%8E%A9%E7%9B%96%E3%80%82" rel="nofollow noreferrer">它的意思是，真正的道理和智慧常常隐藏在细微的事物之中，不为表面上的小成就所显露；</a> (en: &quot;the actual 道 and wisdom is commonly hidden in little events or things, not to be seen on the surface of little accomplishments(!?).&quot;[the last two words does not quite make sense])</li>
<li>Alternative meaning 2:
<a href="https://ishare.ifeng.com/c/s/7vnaITlTYFx" rel="nofollow noreferrer">道隐于小成，就是道隐藏在心灵所感应到的每个细小单元心灵信息与某现实事物的相互对应之中。</a>. Translating the above into English would be a headache, but my (not-so-accurate) translation would be: &quot;道隐于小成，is the correlation between the 道 hidden in every little unit of one's mind, those that are reflected, combined and sensed by the heart, and the 道 in reality.&quot; This version is based on 《易经》, and the Chinese traditional philosophical concepts of 道, 陰陽, 八卦, and the concept of peace, unity, tranquility, and harmony between opposing forces (陰陽和諧). This approach delves deep into Chinese philosophy, so it may be extraordinarily hard to understand, especially for beginners (trust me, even <em>I</em> don't understand it much, despite having a thorough understanding of the Chinese language, even <em>Chinese medicine</em> and pretty much everything else, and spending years trying).</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ol>
<p>All four meanings stated above are all plausible and logical. However, I would say that the first is probably the most probable.</p>
<p>It is important to recognize though, that Chinese philosophy, and in particular 道家, with which 莊子 is a prominent practitioner and explainer of, is extremely complex and layered. The basic idea is that two opposing forces, 陰 and 陽, combine to form everything. 道 is the &quot;rule&quot; of how everything works, and is also the portal to every human's mind that explains the philosophy of the world. Thus, while it may be accurate to say that 小成 in this particular context (&quot;道隱於小成&quot;) means one of the above, the overall meaning of this sentence and others far surpass what can be described through mere words.</p>

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2024-09-08T07:01:55.853Z
2024-09-08T07:01:55.853Z
Admirer of the dragon flag
<p>First of all, simply googling for references can provide some hits, but usually results in very low quality hits. Asking Google translate to provide a translation is also not at all advisable. The reason is that Google search (and translate) are mainly geared towards (or trained on) modern Mandarin; they are not very suitable for classical Chinese. (Especially Google translate is not suitable which you can easily verify with simple, uncontroversial sample sentences.)</p>
<p>One way to search possible references is to run a search on ctext.org. In this case that results in only a very small number of hits (from the 易經 and 禮記). As @Admirer-of-the-dragon-flag pointed out, the 八卦 meaning from the Yijing is probably not relevant (it's kind of intriguing and interesting though).</p>
<p>But after posting my question, I also found there is yet another excellent on-line resource for trying to find conceptual connections. This is the <strong><em>Thesaurus Linguae Sericae</em></strong> (Chinese Language Thesaurus), <a href="http://tls.uni-hd.de" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://tls.uni-hd.de</a>. It seems to be mirrored by several universities, for instance at <a href="https://hxwd.org" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://hxwd.org</a> where I found</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://hxwd.org/search.html?textid=&amp;query=%E5%B0%8F%E6%88%90&amp;search-type=1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://hxwd.org/search.html?textid=&amp;query=小成&amp;search-type=1</a></li>
<li><a href="https://hxwd.org/textview.html?location=KR5c0139_tls_002-069cs&amp;query=%E5%B0%8F%E6%88%90" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://hxwd.org/textview.html?location=KR5c0139_tls_002-069cs&amp;query=小成</a></li>
</ul>
<p>(Some of the hits there are irrelevant because 小成 sometimes is not a compound noun phrase (adjective+noun) but a noun-like+verb construct. But most are at least interesting.)</p>
<p>To find out possible meanings of the phrase it is, I think, necessary to first consider the immediate context (the full sentence, the contrast and parallel between 道 and 言 as @TangHo also suggested in his comment).</p>
<p>Then the context of the whole of the chapter and the whole of Zhuangzi should be considered (but that doesn't directly help in this case). But we can also look if, for instance, 大成 is used, or if 隱 (or similar terms) are used in other places. It turns out that 大成之人 is used in one location. And we could further try to interpret this in the broader context of how Zhuangzi speaks about the &quot;big&quot; and &quot;small&quot; view (for instance in chapter 1 or in the Autumn Floods chapter). This could justify the common translations that I mentioned in my question (&quot;small understanding&quot;).</p>
<p>Then it also makes sense to look at Chinese commentaries and see, first of all, if commentators thought it worthwhile to provide a gloss on this term or not (if not, then the &quot;most natural&quot; reading is probably the best), and if they did, what their explanation was. One commentator's (郭慶藩) gloss is</p>
<blockquote>
<p>䟽小成者謂仁義五德小道而有所成得者謂之小成也世薄時澆唯行仁義不能行於大道故言道隱於小成而道不可隱也故老君云大道廢有仁義</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This links the phrase to the view in the Dao De Jing: &quot;When the Dao is lost/abandoned, it's then that 仁義 humanity-and-righteousness appear.&quot;</p>
<p>The next part of the phrase</p>
<blockquote>
<p>言隱於榮華
is explained as</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>注夫小成榮華自隱於道而道不可隱則眞僞是非者行於榮華而止於實當見於小成而滅於大全也<br>䟽榮華者謂浮辯辭華美之言也只爲滯於華辯所以蔽隱至言所以老君經云信言不美美言不信</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Again linking this to the Laozi.</p>
<p>The TLS hits list a few other possibilities which I don't fully understand yet. For instance, one of them, as far as I understand it, seems to link 小成 and 大成 to temporal durations/astronomy (?) At least this shows me that it's wise to <em>not</em> simply assume &quot;Oh this is a simple phrase, it makes perfect sense, there is no reason to believe it's a technical or special term&quot;. It <em>might</em> very well be intended as technical term with a very specific meaning which we miss if we don't actually examine the different possibilities.</p>

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2024-09-11T23:51:30.697Z
2024-09-12T00:02:56.893Z
2024-09-12T00:02:56.893Z
mudskipper
<p><strong>道隱於小成，言隱於榮華</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>大道(真理)容易被小的成就(主观偏见)遮蔽，花言巧语容易掩盖真言。- The truth is easily obscured by subjective bias, Flirty words can easily cover up the truth (Google Trans)</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>小成</strong>：略有成就 - a person who had a <strong>minor accomplishment</strong> though he's the only one who knew/found the true &quot;WAY&quot; to success.</p>

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2024-09-06T16:42:23.813Z
This is somewhat similar to James Legge's translation. Unfortunately this does not answer my question. (Btw "flirty" words is funny, but seems pretty weird as translation :) )
mudskipper
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2024-09-08T19:25:30.420Z
I agree with @mudskipper, "flirty words" is probably incorrect.
Admirer of the dragon flag
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2024-09-06T16:30:23.913Z
2024-09-06T17:17:51.317Z
2024-09-06T17:17:51.317Z
r13
<p>There is a beautiful passage in the <a href="https://ctext.org/dictionary.pl?if=en&amp;id=2726" rel="nofollow noreferrer">齊物論 Qi Wu Lun</a> chapter of the Zhuangzi about the indeterminancy of speech, especially in the context of disputes:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>夫言非吹也。言者有言，其所言者特未定也。果有言邪？其未嘗有言邪？其以為異於鷇音，亦有辯乎，其無辯乎？道惡乎隱而有真偽？言惡乎隱而有是非？道惡乎往而不存？言惡乎存而不可？道隱於小成，言隱於榮華。故有儒、墨之是非，以是其所非，而非其所是。欲是其所非而非其所是，則莫若以明。</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p>Now, saying is not blowing breath. Saying has something to say. Only, what it says is never fixed. Have we then actually said something? Or have we perhaps never said something? If you deem it to be different from the twittering of baby birds, is there actually a distinction, or is there perhaps no distinction? How is the Way hidden that we have &quot;genuine&quot; and &quot;false&quot;? How does saying conceal so that we have &quot;right/this (is an x)&quot; and &quot;wrong/(it) is not (an x)? Where does the Way go but not be present? How can words be present but be invalid? The Way is hidden in &quot;small accomplishments&quot;. Words conceal by flourishes and verbiage. This is why we have the assertions and negations of the Ru and the Mo, who assert what the others deny and deny what the others assert. If one wants to assert what they deny and deny what they assert, then there is nothing better than using light (intelligence).</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The above is my own translation (which is close to A.C Graham's translation). Graham has pointed out that in this chapter Zhuangzi's background are the Mohist canons, with their precise definitions and theorems. Terms like 辯, 是, 非, and especially 因是, 為是 have rather precise meanings. (I suspect even the term 定 may be a quasi-technical term here, but haven't yet been able to find enough evidence for this.)</p>
<p>I have a question about one small detail, the mysterious term &quot;小成&quot; in the phrase &quot;道隱於小成&quot;. Graham translates this as &quot;The Way is hidden by formation of the lesser.&quot;
This is not very clear. Legge also seems to have had problems with this phrase since he paraphrases it as &quot;the small comprehension (of the mind)&quot; -- which seems a bit strained. Both those translation may seem natural, but they're really not very clear. (It's like the translators just plugged in something that might make the text seem coherent.) I'm wondering if &quot;小成&quot; perhaps had a very specific, perhaps even idiomatic meaning in those days (3d century BCE). Does anyone here know this? I'm especially interested in finding references to pre-imperial or Han texts that use 小成 with a specialized meaning.</p>

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2024-09-07T02:30:19.947Z
为什么不百度呢？https://www.gushiwen.cn/mingju/juv.aspx?id=ed92db1e4b05
KaiserKatze
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2024-09-07T12:03:53.333Z
@KaiserKatze Because those answers are all based on interpretation of Zhuangzi -- it's what anyone can come up with when reading this, so it's also likely not informative and could very well be incorrect. I'm looking for contextual evidence in other sources (like the 易經 in Pedroski's answer or others). But perhaps there is not much evidence of that sort.
mudskipper
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2024-09-07T12:14:03.627Z
Looking for evidence from other sources is not always necessary. Let's take "百度“ as an example. In the sentence "水的的沸点是一百度" it means 100 degrees centigrade. In "为什么不百度呢？" it means "look up something on a search engine".
KaiserKatze
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2024-09-08T07:13:32.823Z
@mudskipper Finding resources is always a good idea, and sometimes it is actually *required* to write a good and informative answer. Thus, I respectfully disagree that some Chinese website sources are not informative and incorrect. As I see it, Pedroski's answer may actually be quite off, since 小成 doesn't seem to directly relate to 八卦 in this context.
Admirer of the dragon flag
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2024-09-08T15:37:12.063Z
@Admirerofthedragonflag - I believe we need to keep all options open. Most current interpretations/translations (of this phrase) are actually _based_ on Chinese commentaries on Zhuangzi (commentaries that themselves were just based on pure guessing). This means they are circular and should not simply be trusted as the "best", since we don't know if it's just a guess or not. Something similar was the case with phrases like "因是" or "公是" which were not even recognized as special compounds before Graham and others pointed out that those were technical terms deriving from the Mohist canons.
mudskipper
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@mudskipper Yeah, the Chinese (especially those in Ancient and medieval times) have a knack for guessing at other people's works and their meanings. However, since the original author (莊子 in this case) is long dead, we cannot possibly know the true author's real intentions in writing this. Every interpretation and everything we say about their works are essentially all just a guess, so I think those Chinese commentaries' guesses are of equal value to our own guesses.  If we are able to ask 莊子 himself, he may actually mean something completely different than everyone's guess!
Admirer of the dragon flag
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2024-09-10T20:21:55.543Z
道隱於小成，言隱於榮華- In this structure, 道-->小成 and 言-->榮華 are a contrasting pair. Understand the relationship between 言 and 榮華 and you will find what 小成 is referred to, unfortunately, I do not know what 言 is referring to.
Tang Ho
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2024-09-10T20:42:33.397Z
@TangHo - I agree with you that the very first thing to consider is the immediate context, which is the parallel construction that you pointed to. 言 here refers to all speech or to speaking or words in general _and/or_ to what words refer to. It seems to me that 隱於 is usually read as a passive construct ("the Way is hidden by...") but I wonder if it could also be an active construct ("the Way hides in ...", "the Way conceals itself in ...").
mudskipper
<classical-chinese><idioms><reference-materials>
What is the meaning of 小成 in 道隱於小成?
# What is the meaning of 小成 in 道隱於小成?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-09-06)

There is a beautiful passage in the [齊物論 Qi Wu Lun](https://ctext.org/dictionary.pl?if=en&id=2726) chapter of the Zhuangzi about the indeterminancy of speech, especially in the context of disputes:

> 夫言非吹也。言者有言，其所言者特未定也。果有言邪？其未嘗有言邪？其以為異於鷇音，亦有辯乎，其無辯乎？道惡乎隱而有真偽？言惡乎隱而有是非？道惡乎往而不存？言惡乎存而不可？道隱於小成，言隱於榮華。故有儒、墨之是非，以是其所非，而非其所是。欲是其所非而非其所是，則莫若以明。

> Now, saying is not blowing breath. Saying has something to say. Only, what it says is never fixed. Have we then actually said something? Or have we perhaps never said something? If you deem it to be different from the twittering of baby birds, is there actually a distinction, or is there perhaps no distinction? How is the Way hidden that we have "genuine" and "false"? How does saying conceal so that we have "right/this (is an x)" and "wrong/(it) is not (an x)? Where does the Way go but not be present? How can words be present but be invalid? The Way is hidden in "small accomplishments". Words conceal by flourishes and verbiage. This is why we have the assertions and negations of the Ru and the Mo, who assert what the others deny and deny what the others assert. If one wants to assert what they deny and deny what they assert, then there is nothing better than using light (intelligence).

The above is my own translation (which is close to A.C Graham's translation). Graham has pointed out that in this chapter Zhuangzi's background are the Mohist canons, with their precise definitions and theorems. Terms like 辯, 是, 非, and especially 因是, 為是 have rather precise meanings. (I suspect even the term 定 may be a quasi-technical term here, but haven't yet been able to find enough evidence for this.)

I have a question about one small detail, the mysterious term "小成" in the phrase "道隱於小成". Graham translates this as "The Way is hidden by formation of the lesser."
This is not very clear. Legge also seems to have had problems with this phrase since he paraphrases it as "the small comprehension (of the mind)" -- which seems a bit strained. Both those translation may seem natural, but they're really not very clear. (It's like the translators just plugged in something that might make the text seem coherent.) I'm wondering if "小成" perhaps had a very specific, perhaps even idiomatic meaning in those days (3d century BCE). Does anyone here know this? I'm especially interested in finding references to pre-imperial or Han texts that use 小成 with a specialized meaning.

**Tags:** classical-chinese, idioms, reference-materials

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: 为什么不百度呢？https://www.gushiwen.cn/mingju/juv.aspx?id=ed92db1e4b05  
> **username_0**: @username_1 Because those answers are all based on interpretation of Zhuangzi -- it's what anyone can come up with when reading this, so it's also likely not informative and could very well be incorrect. I'm looking for contextual evidence in other sources (like the 易經 in username_5's answer or others). But perhaps there is not much evidence of that sort.  
> **username_1**: Looking for evidence from other sources is not always necessary. Let's take "百度“ as an example. In the sentence "水的的沸点是一百度" it means 100 degrees centigrade. In "为什么不百度呢？" it means "look up something on a search engine".  
> **username_2**: @username_0 Finding resources is always a good idea, and sometimes it is actually *required* to write a good and informative answer. Thus, I respectfully disagree that some Chinese website sources are not informative and incorrect. As I see it, username_5's answer may actually be quite off, since 小成 doesn't seem to directly relate to 八卦 in this context.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 - I believe we need to keep all options open. Most current interpretations/translations (of this phrase) are actually _based_ on Chinese commentaries on Zhuangzi (commentaries that themselves were just based on pure guessing). This means they are circular and should not simply be trusted as the "best", since we don't know if it's just a guess or not. Something similar was the case with phrases like "因是" or "公是" which were not even recognized as special compounds before Graham and others pointed out that those were technical terms deriving from the Mohist canons.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 Yeah, the Chinese (especially those in Ancient and medieval times) have a knack for guessing at other people's works and their meanings. However, since the original author (莊子 in this case) is long dead, we cannot possibly know the true author's real intentions in writing this. Every interpretation and everything we say about their works are essentially all just a guess, so I think those Chinese commentaries' guesses are of equal value to our own guesses.  If we are able to ask 莊子 himself, he may actually mean something completely different than everyone's guess!  
> **username_3**: 道隱於小成，言隱於榮華- In this structure, 道-->小成 and 言-->榮華 are a contrasting pair. Understand the relationship between 言 and 榮華 and you will find what 小成 is referred to, unfortunately, I do not know what 言 is referring to.  
> **username_0**: @username_3 - I agree with you that the very first thing to consider is the immediate context, which is the parallel construction that you pointed to. 言 here refers to all speech or to speaking or words in general _and/or_ to what words refer to. It seems to me that 隱於 is usually read as a passive construct ("the Way is hidden by...") but I wonder if it could also be an active construct ("the Way hides in ...", "the Way conceals itself in ...").  

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## 5 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2024-09-06. Score: 1

I read 成 as referring to 'accomplishments' strictly in the sense of 'conceptual/verbal achievements', ie, *successful attempts to conceptualise things verbally*.

I therefore like both Graham's and Legge's translations, which I would hazard to render, by way of both an alternative phrasing and a partial answer to your question, as:

> "The Way is obscured in *fine*[r and finer] *distinctions*"

The sense here is that the more you define and analyse, the more you lose the forest for the trees.

In more prosaic terms, we refer to the same thing when we talk of the truth of the matter being obfuscated by '*abstract terms*' or, ironically (with respect to the literal form of 小成), '*big words*'.

Whether or not this term occurs in the sort of pre-imperial or Han literature you refer to, I find it hard to believe that such a phrase would ever develop a specialised and uniform idiomatic sense outside of context.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Re: "I read 成 as referring to 'accomplishments' strictly in the sense of 'conceptual/verbal achievements', ie, successful attempts to conceptualise [sic] things verbally." 小成 here clearly have a deeper meaning than just "verbal achievements".  
> **username_2**: Actually, Chinese philosophy never even believed anything can be known by just verbal communication. This idea is rather different than contemporary western philosophy. The Chinese thought that every person must find the truth and "道" themselves, and also that even if a person can provide a compelling argument to describe/prove "道" , it does not necessarily mean that person had fully understood all aspects of "道".  
> **username_2**: Personally, I hold an open-minded attitude towards contemporary philosophical views, and I believe that both eastern and western philosophy are correct in their own way. However, when discussing Chinese philosophical concepts, especially when discussing 道家, we should use the Chinese philosophical views.  
> **username_4**: Yes, that's my point. Any attempt to conceptualise the 道 in thought or words is pointless. That's why any such small achievement (小成) in that direction is described as obfuscating/meaningless here.  

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### Answer by username_5 on 2024-09-06. Score: 1

Think Trigrams? 易经？

小成：

谓先成八卦，引申而为六十四卦。故八卦亦名“小成卦”。  
Originally known as Eight Trigrams, (it was) extended to become the 64 Hexagrams, the former Eight Trigrams (were then) also known as “小成卦” (Less is more!)

例句：

在解读易经时，我深入研究了小成卦的含义，发现它蕴含着丰富的哲理。

道隱於小成  
The Dao lies hidden yo, (in the) Eight Trigrams

Do you really want to know the future?

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: I don't think 小成 has any direct relation with 八卦 in this context.  
> **username_5**: You could be right, I am not an expert on Ancient Chinese. What do you suggest?  
> **username_2**: Basically, I think the main point here is "成", and the meaning of "成" in turn is related to the meaning of "道" in this case. "道", probably *is* related to traditional Chinese philosophy, including 易学 (the study of 《易经》). So essentially, I don't think you're wrong that the meaning of "成" is related to 《易经》, but probably not *that directly*. Please check out my answer below for more of my thoughts.  

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### Answer by username_2 on 2024-09-08. Score: 1

《齊物論》, written by famous 道家 philosopher 莊子, is written more than two thousand years ago, thus the words and phrases used are Archaic (Old) Chinese. As a result, we can only guess at what he meant by "道隱於小成，言隱於榮華". However, there are two main possibilities (and two alternatives) that are all quite plausible:

1. Biased or perceptionary views made by individuals; those who do not see 道 fully and in its complete form, and reach conclusions about what 道 is based on their own perceptions and views. For example, an article on the website 搜狐 states: [在庄子的理论中，道是宇宙的本源和规律，是无所不在、无所不包的。然而，人们常常只看到道的局部和表面，而忽视了其整体和本质。](https://www.sohu.com/a/746426406_121194830), meaning (last sentence only, approx.) : "People often only see the Way (道) partially, and tends to omit the overall meaning of the Way (道)". [This](https://fc.iwant-in.net/?p=80994) provides supplementary information.
2. Small (or little) accomplishments. For example, in 古诗文网, it translates "道隐于小成，言隐于荣华。" as "大道容易被小的成就遮蔽，花言巧语容易掩盖真言。" (rough English translation: "The Way (道) is easily shadowed by little accomplishments, and rhetoric speech can easily mask the truth."). 古诗文网 specifically defines 小成 as [小成：略有成就。](https://www.gushiwen.cn/mingju/juv_ed92db1e4b05.aspx) (en: 小成：small or little accomplishments).
3. The two possible meanings stated above are the most probable, and the more "main-stream" possibilities, so to speak. However, there are another two very probable meanings that may not have been agreed upon by that many people. Thus, I will list them here as alternative possibilities:

   * Alternative meaning 1: Little things; little events, thoughts, or objects (i.e., 事物). While similar to number 2 above, this does not necessarily mean "accomplishments", and can be anything small. In another article on 搜狐, it states that 小成，[它的意思是，真正的道理和智慧常常隐藏在细微的事物之中，不为表面上的小成就所显露；](https://www.sohu.com/a/776598769_121845439#:%7E:text=%E8%BF%99%E5%8F%A5%E8%AF%9D%E2%80%9C%E9%81%93%E9%9A%90,%E5%8D%8E%E4%B8%BD%E7%9A%84%E8%A8%80%E8%BE%9E%E6%89%80%E6%8E%A9%E7%9B%96%E3%80%82) (en: "the actual 道 and wisdom is commonly hidden in little events or things, not to be seen on the surface of little accomplishments(!?)."[the last two words does not quite make sense])
   * Alternative meaning 2:
     [道隐于小成，就是道隐藏在心灵所感应到的每个细小单元心灵信息与某现实事物的相互对应之中。](https://ishare.ifeng.com/c/s/7vnaITlTYFx). Translating the above into English would be a headache, but my (not-so-accurate) translation would be: "道隐于小成，is the correlation between the 道 hidden in every little unit of one's mind, those that are reflected, combined and sensed by the heart, and the 道 in reality." This version is based on 《易经》, and the Chinese traditional philosophical concepts of 道, 陰陽, 八卦, and the concept of peace, unity, tranquility, and harmony between opposing forces (陰陽和諧). This approach delves deep into Chinese philosophy, so it may be extraordinarily hard to understand, especially for beginners (trust me, even *I* don't understand it much, despite having a thorough understanding of the Chinese language, even *Chinese medicine* and pretty much everything else, and spending years trying).

All four meanings stated above are all plausible and logical. However, I would say that the first is probably the most probable.

It is important to recognize though, that Chinese philosophy, and in particular 道家, with which 莊子 is a prominent practitioner and explainer of, is extremely complex and layered. The basic idea is that two opposing forces, 陰 and 陽, combine to form everything. 道 is the "rule" of how everything works, and is also the portal to every human's mind that explains the philosophy of the world. Thus, while it may be accurate to say that 小成 in this particular context ("道隱於小成") means one of the above, the overall meaning of this sentence and others far surpass what can be described through mere words.


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### Answer by username_0 on 2024-09-11. Score: 0

First of all, simply googling for references can provide some hits, but usually results in very low quality hits. Asking Google translate to provide a translation is also not at all advisable. The reason is that Google search (and translate) are mainly geared towards (or trained on) modern Mandarin; they are not very suitable for classical Chinese. (Especially Google translate is not suitable which you can easily verify with simple, uncontroversial sample sentences.)

One way to search possible references is to run a search on ctext.org. In this case that results in only a very small number of hits (from the 易經 and 禮記). As @username_2 pointed out, the 八卦 meaning from the Yijing is probably not relevant (it's kind of intriguing and interesting though).

But after posting my question, I also found there is yet another excellent on-line resource for trying to find conceptual connections. This is the ***Thesaurus Linguae Sericae*** (Chinese Language Thesaurus), <http://tls.uni-hd.de>. It seems to be mirrored by several universities, for instance at <https://hxwd.org> where I found

* [https://hxwd.org/search.html?textid=&query=小成&search-type=1](https://hxwd.org/search.html?textid=&query=%E5%B0%8F%E6%88%90&search-type=1)
* [https://hxwd.org/textview.html?location=KR5c0139\_tls\_002-069cs&query=小成](https://hxwd.org/textview.html?location=KR5c0139_tls_002-069cs&query=%E5%B0%8F%E6%88%90)

(Some of the hits there are irrelevant because 小成 sometimes is not a compound noun phrase (adjective+noun) but a noun-like+verb construct. But most are at least interesting.)

To find out possible meanings of the phrase it is, I think, necessary to first consider the immediate context (the full sentence, the contrast and parallel between 道 and 言 as @username_3 also suggested in his comment).

Then the context of the whole of the chapter and the whole of Zhuangzi should be considered (but that doesn't directly help in this case). But we can also look if, for instance, 大成 is used, or if 隱 (or similar terms) are used in other places. It turns out that 大成之人 is used in one location. And we could further try to interpret this in the broader context of how Zhuangzi speaks about the "big" and "small" view (for instance in chapter 1 or in the Autumn Floods chapter). This could justify the common translations that I mentioned in my question ("small understanding").

Then it also makes sense to look at Chinese commentaries and see, first of all, if commentators thought it worthwhile to provide a gloss on this term or not (if not, then the "most natural" reading is probably the best), and if they did, what their explanation was. One commentator's (郭慶藩) gloss is

> 䟽小成者謂仁義五德小道而有所成得者謂之小成也世薄時澆唯行仁義不能行於大道故言道隱於小成而道不可隱也故老君云大道廢有仁義

This links the phrase to the view in the Dao De Jing: "When the Dao is lost/abandoned, it's then that 仁義 humanity-and-righteousness appear."

The next part of the phrase

> 言隱於榮華
> is explained as

> 注夫小成榮華自隱於道而道不可隱則眞僞是非者行於榮華而止於實當見於小成而滅於大全也  
> 䟽榮華者謂浮辯辭華美之言也只爲滯於華辯所以蔽隱至言所以老君經云信言不美美言不信

Again linking this to the Laozi.

The TLS hits list a few other possibilities which I don't fully understand yet. For instance, one of them, as far as I understand it, seems to link 小成 and 大成 to temporal durations/astronomy (?) At least this shows me that it's wise to *not* simply assume "Oh this is a simple phrase, it makes perfect sense, there is no reason to believe it's a technical or special term". It *might* very well be intended as technical term with a very specific meaning which we miss if we don't actually examine the different possibilities.


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### Answer by username_6 on 2024-09-06. Score: 0

**道隱於小成，言隱於榮華**

* 大道(真理)容易被小的成就(主观偏见)遮蔽，花言巧语容易掩盖真言。- The truth is easily obscured by subjective bias, Flirty words can easily cover up the truth (Google Trans)

**小成**：略有成就 - a person who had a **minor accomplishment** though he's the only one who knew/found the true "WAY" to success.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: This is somewhat similar to James Legge's translation. Unfortunately this does not answer my question. (Btw "flirty" words is funny, but seems pretty weird as translation :) )  
> **username_2**: I agree with @username_0, "flirty words" is probably incorrect.  

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