<p>Maybe you shall check out these:</p>
<p><strong>全</strong> [客语拼音字汇] <strong>qian2</strong>, and [陆丰腔] <strong>tsian3</strong>.</p>
<p><a href="https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E5%85%A8" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E5%85%A8</a> (under [音韵方言] tab)</p>
<p><strong>前</strong> [客语拼音字汇] <strong>qian2</strong>, and [陆丰腔] <strong>tsian3</strong></p>
<p><a href="https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E5%89%8D" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E5%89%8D</a> (under [音韵方言] tab)</p>
<p>I do not know the exact pronunciation of each case though.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-11-02T20:08:57.983Z
2022-11-02T21:38:46.983Z
2022-11-02T21:38:46.983Z
r13
<p><strong>It's not definite but pretty safe to say that this is not a general pattern in Sichuanese (the general pattern is in the opposite direction) and their pronunciation is borrowed from or heavily influenced by other dialects.</strong></p>
<hr />
<p>This is essentially how the 开口呼 and 闭口呼 words from 山摄三等 evolve in Sichuanese.</p>
<p>If not mixed, 山摄三等开口呼 would lead to ian, while 山摄三等合口呼 to uan.</p>
<p>(x &gt; y: Standard Mandarin &gt; Sichuanese)
Sichuanese does mixed them to some extent. I summarized the following from a table of 成都 (1941) in 《四川方言调查报告》. 1) 开 &gt; 闭 (an &gt; uan). This includes some of 二等开口呼 words with initials from 知庄组. For example, 铲 chan3 &gt; cuan3. 2) 闭 &gt; 开 (uan&gt;an/ian). This includes all words with initials in 帮系, 三等 words with initials in 泥组. The first group all happens with Standard Mandarin, e.g. 拌 etc. The second group doesn't make sense to me.</p>
<p>开 &gt; 闭 is quite common in Sichuanese. Not mentioned above, but this pattern also exists with initials from 精組. For example, 鲜 xian1 &gt; xuan1, as in 新鲜 xin1 xuan1; 弦 xian2 &gt; xuan2, 现 xian4 &gt; xuan4.</p>
<p>Yet in your example, 前 and 全 both have initials from 精組. Per the above pattern, it's more likely to pronounce qian2 as quan2, though in my subdialect under Sichuanese this does not happen and they do not mix.</p>
<hr />
<p>Given that 刘全 is from 均州 in 湖北, let's see if we can find the observed mixing there. My material on Hubei dialects are very limited and don't particularly has 均州. Yet in 《广济方言志》, 山摄精组三等合口 is pronounced as 开口. The example given in the book is 泉 as qian.</p>
<p>Though not conforming to where he came from, 赣语 also satisfies this pattern. [tɕʰiɛn13] Since historically they are closely related by immigrants, this is also possible. (The given sound varies across subdialects)</p>
<p>Another possibility is borrowed from 客家话. [tɕʰiɛn13] Now there are still places in Sichuan where 客家话 is spoken.</p>
<p>However, 赣语 and 客家话 both have tendency to distinguish 尖团 and thus pronounce 前 and 全 as [tsʰiɛn13]. And between them 客家话 has a larger tendency.</p>
<p>Therefore it could be an idiosyncratic loan from 湖北官话, 客家话 or 赣语, where with the latter two sources, in some cases palatalization after borrowing is needed to localize the sound.</p>
<p>湖北官话, 客家话 and 赣语 are closely related. This phonological feature could well ultimately originate from the same source.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-11-02T13:01:01.577Z
2022-11-02T22:46:45.123Z
2022-11-02T22:46:45.123Z
lilysirius
<p>I am working in Chengdu. But I don't think they don't really 前/全 不分, they can easily speak 全 though maybe sounds a little different on tone with 普通话. Maybe the pure ancient 四川话 has the difference as you talked. But nowadays, it's not so obvious. Maybe caused by the develop and immigrants from other place, the 四川话 also changed day after day. 所以，如果如今的四川话和过去的不太像了，你也不必感到奇怪。</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-09-15T08:46:04.520Z
2017-09-15T08:46:04.520Z
KFJK
<p>I'd always had this hunch! The bus recording was supposed to be 安全 but why did it sound like 安前.</p>
<p>Then I got affirmation from 《成都方言》</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/CK14P.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/CK14P.png" alt="ah" /></a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>刘前进</p>
<p>此词源于《刘全进瓜》的古典故事，即与瓜傻同义，便指傻瓜。又由于地域读音关系，“前”与“全”不分，此词又为“刘全进”。歇后语：“～——瓜！”</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Specifically: <strong>“前”与“全”不分</strong>.</p>
<p>This, though, is the only <em>evidence</em> or documentation/reference I have come across talking about this phenomenon.</p>
<p>What other references or documentation exist talking about <strong>“前”与“全”不分</strong> or 全 being pronounced <em>qian</em> in Southwestern Mandarin, or more specifically Sichuanese/Chengduese?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-09-15T08:50:18.247Z
it is pronounced same in many dialects, I know northern Chinese dialects is in the list.
Daniel Yang
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-09-19T00:34:58.577Z
they are similar but never the same
Harry Summer
<pronunciation><topolect>
documentation/references: 全 being pronunced `qian` in Southwestern Mandarin
# documentation/references: 全 being pronunced `qian` in Southwestern Mandarin

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-09-14)

I'd always had this hunch! The bus recording was supposed to be 安全 but why did it sound like 安前.

Then I got affirmation from 《成都方言》

[![ah](https://i.sstatic.net/CK14P.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/CK14P.png)

> 刘前进
>
> 此词源于《刘全进瓜》的古典故事，即与瓜傻同义，便指傻瓜。又由于地域读音关系，“前”与“全”不分，此词又为“刘全进”。歇后语：“～——瓜！”

Specifically: **“前”与“全”不分**.

This, though, is the only *evidence* or documentation/reference I have come across talking about this phenomenon.

What other references or documentation exist talking about **“前”与“全”不分** or 全 being pronounced *qian* in Southwestern Mandarin, or more specifically Sichuanese/Chengduese?

**Tags:** pronunciation, topolect

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: it is pronounced same in many dialects, I know northern Chinese dialects is in the list.  
> **username_2**: they are similar but never the same  

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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2022-11-02. Score: 1

Maybe you shall check out these:

**全** [客语拼音字汇] **qian2**, and [陆丰腔] **tsian3**.

<https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E5%85%A8> (under [音韵方言] tab)

**前** [客语拼音字汇] **qian2**, and [陆丰腔] **tsian3**

<https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E5%89%8D> (under [音韵方言] tab)

I do not know the exact pronunciation of each case though.


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### Answer by username_4 on 2022-11-02. Score: 1

**It's not definite but pretty safe to say that this is not a general pattern in Sichuanese (the general pattern is in the opposite direction) and their pronunciation is borrowed from or heavily influenced by other dialects.**

---

This is essentially how the 开口呼 and 闭口呼 words from 山摄三等 evolve in Sichuanese.

If not mixed, 山摄三等开口呼 would lead to ian, while 山摄三等合口呼 to uan.

(x > y: Standard Mandarin > Sichuanese)
Sichuanese does mixed them to some extent. I summarized the following from a table of 成都 (1941) in 《四川方言调查报告》. 1) 开 > 闭 (an > uan). This includes some of 二等开口呼 words with initials from 知庄组. For example, 铲 chan3 > cuan3. 2) 闭 > 开 (uan>an/ian). This includes all words with initials in 帮系, 三等 words with initials in 泥组. The first group all happens with Standard Mandarin, e.g. 拌 etc. The second group doesn't make sense to me.

开 > 闭 is quite common in Sichuanese. Not mentioned above, but this pattern also exists with initials from 精組. For example, 鲜 xian1 > xuan1, as in 新鲜 xin1 xuan1; 弦 xian2 > xuan2, 现 xian4 > xuan4.

Yet in your example, 前 and 全 both have initials from 精組. Per the above pattern, it's more likely to pronounce qian2 as quan2, though in my subdialect under Sichuanese this does not happen and they do not mix.

---

Given that 刘全 is from 均州 in 湖北, let's see if we can find the observed mixing there. My material on Hubei dialects are very limited and don't particularly has 均州. Yet in 《广济方言志》, 山摄精组三等合口 is pronounced as 开口. The example given in the book is 泉 as qian.

Though not conforming to where he came from, 赣语 also satisfies this pattern. [tɕʰiɛn13] Since historically they are closely related by immigrants, this is also possible. (The given sound varies across subdialects)

Another possibility is borrowed from 客家话. [tɕʰiɛn13] Now there are still places in Sichuan where 客家话 is spoken.

However, 赣语 and 客家话 both have tendency to distinguish 尖团 and thus pronounce 前 and 全 as [tsʰiɛn13]. And between them 客家话 has a larger tendency.

Therefore it could be an idiosyncratic loan from 湖北官话, 客家话 or 赣语, where with the latter two sources, in some cases palatalization after borrowing is needed to localize the sound.

湖北官话, 客家话 and 赣语 are closely related. This phonological feature could well ultimately originate from the same source.


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### Answer by username_5 on 2017-09-15. Score: 0

I am working in Chengdu. But I don't think they don't really 前/全 不分, they can easily speak 全 though maybe sounds a little different on tone with 普通话. Maybe the pure ancient 四川话 has the difference as you talked. But nowadays, it's not so obvious. Maybe caused by the develop and immigrants from other place, the 四川话 also changed day after day. 所以，如果如今的四川话和过去的不太像了，你也不必感到奇怪。


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