<p>This is our considered opinion. Hope it helps. </p>

<p>Once you have ended your striggle to understand 就 and 才， you certantly need to begin your striggle to spell English correctly!</p>

<p>这就是台湾，这才是台湾。
This and only this is Taiwan.</p>

<p>你怎么想我就不在乎呢。（not said this way)<br>
 你怎么想我就不在乎了。 I can't keep worrying about how you feel.</p>

<p>你怎么想我才不在乎呢。 I don't care what you think.</p>

<p>两个人就能办好。 You just need 2 people to finish this work.</p>

<p>两个人才能办好。 You have to have at least 2 people to finish this work.</p>

<p>就是他。 That's him.</p>

<p>才是他。(这才是他。） That is how he is.</p>

<p>就是够了。  (maybe try: 我受够了。 I've had enough! (angry))
It's enough.</p>

<p>(再给我XX)才是够了。(give me more,) then it will be enough.</p>

<p>这才是够了。 It's not enough./ Only this is enough.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-28T00:41:29.443Z
striggle…………………?
Mou某
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2016-11-28T04:28:37.537Z
OP may have meant to write 'struggle', who knows?
Gangosa
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2016-11-28T04:30:21.733Z
Yes, wasn't sure if it was meant to be satirical or not.
Mou某
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2016-11-28T07:46:56.867Z
@Gangosa, What do you think about those interpretations: 1)"你怎么想我才不在乎呢" - "I just reached the bare minimum for not caring about what you think." 2)"你怎么想我就不在乎了" - "I have long ago reached the level needed not to care about what you think."
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-28T10:07:18.320Z
Hey, I'm no expert, just a learner, but my woman is pretty good! 你怎么想 here  equates to something like 'whatever you think' 我才不在乎 I would put as 'I don't care' I don't see any mention of a bare minimum. Over interpretation I think. 我就不在乎了 literally 'I (in) that (case) not care'. I paraphrase that as 'I don't care about (that). That's how we got to the answers I gave. In 2) you can interpret that so, but I don't know where you got 'long ago' from, unless you provide more context. Everything changes with context.
Gangosa
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-30T07:51:58.897Z
Google translate?
Henry HO
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-26T03:17:01.107Z
2016-11-26T03:17:01.107Z
Gangosa
<p>Now I will try to answer my own question. Judging by the opinions gathered here, I think the nature of 才 and 就 can be explained easily by this definition:</p>
<ol>
<li>就 - already. It is a marker of a sufficient minimum.</li>
<li>才 - barely. It is a marker of a necessary minimum.</li>
</ol>
<p>For example:</p>
<ul>
<li>她三岁就会说话. She <strong>already</strong> learned to speak when she became three. (3 years was sufficient for her)</li>
<li>她三岁才会说话. She learned to speak <strong>only</strong> when she became three. (3 years was a necessary threshold for her)</li>
<li><strong>Only|barely(才)</strong> three is enough to finish this task. (3 is a minimum number)</li>
<li>Three man is <strong>already(就)</strong> enough to finish this task. (3 is a sufficient number)</li>
<li>你怎么现在就回家 It's 6, you are supposed to be home at 9.</li>
<li>你怎么现在才回家 It's 11:30 you were supposed to be home at 9.</li>
<li>我们九点上课，可是他八点就来了。We start class at 9am, but he came as early as 8 o’clock.</li>
<li>我们九点上课，可是他九点一刻才来。We start class at nine o’clock, but he didn’t come until quarter past.</li>
</ul>
<p>So when we say something like this:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>要是他不来，我们<strong>就</strong>走吧。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>usually such sentences (要是...就) translate 就 as &quot;then&quot;:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>If they don't come, <strong>then</strong> we will leave.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>But now I think 就 is more &quot;already&quot; than &quot;then&quot; (or rather 就 has a an original connotation of &quot;already&quot; (i.e. sufficient conditions for something to be true are met).</p>
<p>P.S. can someone explain what &quot;去才去&quot; means?</p>
<ul>
<li>如果方便<strong>去才去</strong>.</li>
<li>外国上学是不是想<strong>去才去</strong>? 是不是很自由的想去就去不想去就不去?</li>
</ul>
<blockquote>
<p>Thank NS.X. for answer:</p>
<p>去才去(is a shortened 想去,才去) = <strong>Only then</strong> go, when you want to. <em>(Once you know the fact that you want to go, then you can go.)</em></p>
<p>去就去(is a shortened 想去,就去) = If you want to go, then <strong>already</strong> go. <em>(You've already been standing here for an hour unable to move! It is taking to long for you to do this. Go already!).</em></p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-26T22:55:06.840Z
If only the Chinese language were simple, people like me would have no trouble learning it! Sadly, it is not and I do!
Gangosa
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2016-11-27T13:56:39.533Z
超酷超帅型头型男, I have changed the first 2 examples from sleeping to "language learning". Hope they will be ok.
coobit
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2016-11-28T05:32:54.147Z
Your understanding is correct but this only covers the modern, adverbial usage. Some other answers and comments disagreed with this way of "meta" explanation fundamentally because they took into consideration the other usages of these characters. 
In 外国人上学是不是想去才去，想去 is the necessary condition，想去 才 去 = wanting to go (i.e. willingly) - only then - go (to school). "Is that so in foreign countries, kids go to school only when they're willing to?"
NS.X.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-28T08:07:59.140Z
@超酷超帅型头型男 My response was towards this answer instead of your comment, meta was the way coobit tends to understand Chinese, and yes 才 in the example is agreeing with his understanding, but he wasn't sure and was asking about it.
NS.X.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-28T08:51:53.767Z
@超酷超帅型头型男, I have added 现在 to the examples. Originally I thought 现在 was somehow implied by using 才,就 with 回家, but any way with 现在 added the sentences sound clearer.
coobit
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2016-11-28T16:56:38.867Z
There are three basic definitions for 就 at the minimum.  [1.Then ] [2. Only / just] [ 3. near / close to /soon]. simplify to one single definition cannot cover all three noninterchangeable functions of 就. (see my last comment on my answer)
Tang Ho
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2016-11-29T08:58:46.217Z
I saw your update, it's not (想)(去才去), but (想去)(才/就)(去). 想去 is clause 1 and the second 去 is clause 2.
NS.X.
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2016-11-26T21:04:56.673Z
2016-11-29T10:33:00.140Z
2020-06-17T09:50:11.587Z
coobit
<p>My earlier answer depended on dictionaries' definitions too much. I mean I use the language, I should know what the function of 就 in different context. In practical sense, at the root, 就 as an adverb has three basic meanings, and they can extend to more meanings with different components, for example, 就座, 就業, 就地, 就緒 and 就捕 are all unique terms that have 就 as a component, that doesn't mean 就 has the meaning of " <strong>take</strong> the seat, <strong>get</strong> a job, <strong>on</strong> the spot, <strong>already</strong> complete and <strong>be</strong> captured. </p>

<p>1.then; right away</p>

<p>2.only; just</p>

<p>3.near; close to</p>

<p>Without clear context, the following phrase can be interpreted differently: </p>

<p>有錢就買車-  when I have money, then I would buy a car
(就= 1.then; immediately)</p>

<p>有錢就買車-  whenever I have money, I only use it to buy car
(就= 2. only; just)</p>

<p>有錢就買車 have money and soon will buy a car.
(就=3. Near; close to; soon)</p>

<p>To avoid confusion, we have to make the context  more clear, .</p>

<p>等我有錢就去買車-  when I have money, then I would buy a car
(就= 1.then; immediately)</p>

<p>我一有錢就只知道買車-  whenever I have money, I only use it to buy car
(就= 2. only; just)</p>

<p>我有錢，就快買車了- I have money and soon will buy a car.
(就=3. Near; close to; soon)</p>

<p>as for 才, it too carries the meanings of "only; just"</p>

<p>the context of 这就是台湾, 这才是台湾  gave room for different interpretations. 这 could mean "这里(here)" or "这样(this way/like this)" </p>

<p>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</p>

<p>According to some dictionaries. 就 has 7 meanings as an adverb, 6 as a verb, 3 as a preposition, and 2 as a conjunction. </p>

<p>You can check it out at: <a href="http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/808/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/808/</a></p>

<p>In 这<strong>就</strong>是台湾，就 is an adverb (就 <em>[3] [adv] exactly; precisely; definitely</em> )</p>

<ul>
<li>这<strong>就</strong>是台湾 = This <strong>precisely</strong>, is Taiwan.</li>
</ul>

<p>才 as an adverb is simpler, it means "only", only then or "just"</p>

<ul>
<li>这<strong>才</strong>是台湾 = <strong>Only</strong> this, is Taiwan.</li>
</ul>

<p>As for your example sentences:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>1a. 你怎么想我<strong>就</strong>不在乎呢。 As for how you think, I <strong>definitely</strong> don't care. (就 <em>[3] [adv] exactly; precisely; definitely</em> )</p>
  
  <p>1b. 你怎么想我<strong>才</strong>不在乎呢。As for how you think, I <strong>just</strong> don't care.</p>
  
  <p>2a. 两个人<strong>就</strong>能办好。<strong>Just</strong> two people can finish it. (就 <em>[4] [adv] only; merely; just</em>)</p>
  
  <p>2b. 两个人<strong>才</strong>能办好。 <strong>Only</strong> (having) two people can finish it</p>
  
  <p>3a. <strong>就</strong>是他。 It <strong>definitely</strong> is him.</p>
  
  <p>3b. <strong>才</strong>是他。 <strong>Only then</strong>, is him.</p>
  
  <p>4a. <strong>就</strong>是够了。 <strong>Forthwith</strong> is enough (就 <em>[1] [adv] at once; forthwith; right away</em> )</p>
  
  <p>4b. <strong>才</strong>是够了。<strong>Only then</strong> is enough</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Respond to comments:</p>

<p>才 = "<strong>only then</strong>" in 2b. it is an adverb for 能 - (才能= <strong>only then</strong>, can)</p>

<p>In 1b, 才 = " <strong>just</strong>". It is an adjective for 我- (我<strong>才</strong> = <strong>if it is just me / concerning just me</strong>, I don't care). </p>

<p>You can tell 才 is the adjective "just" for the noun when it is followed by a negative statement denoted by 不 or 没</p>

<pre><code>我不认识你= I don't know you
我(才)不认识你= (as far as I am concerned) I don't know you / I (just) don't know you

我没有那么多钱= I don't have that much money
我(才)没有那么多钱=  (as far as I am concerned) 
I don't have that much money / I (just) don't have that much money
</code></pre>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-25T09:11:43.153Z
Well, I have seen many dictionaries. I'm looking for a more uniform explanation of 就 and 才, more lingustical. 
IMHO 
就 - is a sufficient contition marker(already, far too viable condition) 
and 
才-is a necessary condition marker (minimum viable contion).
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-25T09:35:06.500Z
就 in different sentences has different meanings, there's no single definition that can represent 就  alone. Even 才 can mean "only" or "just" (see 1b and 2b)
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-25T09:35:58.497Z
Tang Ho, I may sound rude or unrespectful, but it is not so at all. Please, can you AVOID using Just and Only in your examples. Make the translation more long and exposing inner logic. For example: Instead of "As for how you think, I just don't care." I would translate it as "As for how you think, I BARELY care (that is almost don't give a dime)." with more structure to the sentence in the brackets after the main transaltion. Thanks. Please don't be offended. Just and only they are Too vauge, they mean to much..
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-25T09:38:09.783Z
"there's no single definition" I thnk I have one now. :) I'm just trying to see if it's right by looking at your translations. I will answer my own POST and will give out my take on "the single definition" when more people respond.
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-25T09:43:32.977Z
The more detailed translation of 我**才**不在乎 would be (**as far as just**  I **concern**. I don't care)
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-25T09:47:37.070Z
Now that is interesting. You are saying that 才 modifies 我! I thought 才 is an indicator of "almost not the case that" or "it is barely the case that".
coobit
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2016-11-25T10:01:47.157Z
才 = "only then" in 2b. it is an adverb for 能 - (才能= only then, can); In 1b, 才 = " just". It is an adjective for 我- (我才 = if it is just me / concerning just me,  I don't care
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-28T07:43:22.073Z
The example "有錢就買車" as having a SUPERPOSITION of THREE translations is a great one! Thanks. And in all those possibles interpretations 就 has smth to do with meeting sufficient requirements for making a purchase. So my model holds :)
coobit
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2016-11-28T16:21:44.193Z
No, the three different functions of 就 are clearly not interchangeable. (1) "have money, **then** buy car" suit your model, but (2) " have money, **only** buy car" and (3) "have money, **soon** buy car" do not suit the model. You can check it by remove the so call requirement "有錢" , and the phrase would become 就買車 , that can only mean "buy car **soon** ". If you add a verb and make it "就知道買車" then it can only mean " **only** think of buy car". There's no element of require in 2 and 3, That's why I said there are three basic definitions for 就 at the minimum.
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-29T10:35:30.183Z
Tang Ho, I wonder if each of those 3 meanings can be stressed by using commas? Like, for example:有錢,就買車. I know that commas are not native to chinese language, but maybe in modern days it will work?
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-29T10:52:13.990Z
only #3 works. "有錢, 就買車" (have money,  close to buying a car.) you can also expand the sentence to make it more clear-  for example: 我有錢( I have money)到(to) 就(close to )買車(buying a car) 的地步(the point of) = "我有錢到就買車的地步" (I have money to the point of close to buying a car)
Tang Ho
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2016-11-25T09:05:49.863Z
2016-11-28T10:29:06.063Z
2016-11-28T10:29:06.063Z
Tang Ho
<p>A lot of people are trying to explain 就 vs 才 with english equivalent terms, but that makes it very confusing when it can be explained with simple logic statements, and it is crucial to understand the reasoning behind all these cases:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>X就Y -> Y if X</p>
  
  <p>X才Y -> Y if and only if X</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The difference is that when using 就, X is not the only condition that Y can happen, while with 才 Y happens [if and only if] X happens. Basic example:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>下雨的話(X)地就會濕(Y)</p>
  
  <p>The floor will get wet (Y) [if] it rains (X)</p>
  
  <p>下雨的話(X)地才會濕(Y)</p>
  
  <p>The floor will get wet (Y) [if and only] if it rains (X)</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Mutated form of 就 vs 才:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>你怎么想我(X)就不在乎呢(Y)。</p>
  
  <p>I wouldn't care (Y) [if] however you think of me (X)</p>
  
  <p>你怎么想我(X)才不在乎呢(Y)。</p>
  
  <p>I wouldn't care (Y) [if and only if] however you think of me (X)</p>
</blockquote>

<p>But wait a second, how does that make any sense?</p>

<p>You see, "I wouldn't care" is the result of "however you think of me", the action. By using 就 you are simply stating that you wouldn't care how he thinks of you. But in some cases that's not powerful enough, and only in chinese that you can deliver that kind of tone: you want to tell the other person you don't care so much that "however you think of me" is the ONLY thing that you don't care about, and you care about everything else.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>两个人(X)就能办好(Y)。</p>
  
  <p>It can be done (Y) [with] two people (X).</p>
  
  <p>两个人(X)才能办好(Y)。</p>
  
  <p>It can be done (Y) [with and only with] two people (X). </p>
  
  <p>(Note that this can imply strictly 2 persons, or 2 or more people) </p>
</blockquote>

<p>The following is harder to explain:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>就是他。</p>
  
  <p>That is (simply) him</p>
  
  <p>才是他。</p>
  
  <p>That is (the real) him</p>
</blockquote>

<p>You would use 就是他 when you see someone doing something that he normally does. </p>

<blockquote>
  <p>那就是菲尔普斯(Y)，又贏獎牌了(X)</p>
  
  <p>That is Michael Phelps (Y), winning yet another medal (X)</p>
  
  <p>([Because] of winning another swimming medal, he has to be Michael Phelps)</p>
</blockquote>

<p>But then let's say Michael Phelps had been on a losing streak for the past few of games, and he has finally gotten another medal.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>那才是我知道的菲尔普斯！</p>
  
  <p>Oh yeah that is the true Michael Phelps that I know of!</p>
  
  <p>(This signifies that it is the real Michael Phelps [because and ONLY because] he has won again and he is known for winning. It wasn't him when he wasn't winning. You would use this form when you want to confirm that something is finally back in shape or back to where it used to be.)</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Finally, quite straight forward:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>就是够了</p>
  
  <p>That is enough.</p>
  
  <p>才是够了。</p>
  
  <p>That is just enough.</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-29T19:42:18.660Z
Thanks, that's just what I need. But that "I wouldn't care (Y) [if and only if] however you think of me (X)" and "I don't care so much that it is the only thing I don't care in this world." the construction gives me headache. :)
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-29T19:55:24.183Z
@coobit Yeah grammatically it doesn't make sense just because there is no direct translation in english, but it helps a lot if you treat it as more of an action and reaction
Zukaberg
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-30T05:17:04.013Z
How does you "iff=short for "if and only if" make sence in these examples:1)回来再上上网，发几个伊妹儿，搞到十一点才睡觉。 2)昨晚我十一时才睡觉，因此今天起床晚了。 3)她直到11点才上床睡觉。
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-30T14:46:28.420Z
@coobit Those examples are quite similar so Ill try to answer them all at once, they all have the same "十一點才睡覺" When you say "十一點就睡覺", again you are simply saying that you will sleep if the time is 11, it doesn't exclude the time where time is NOT 11, similar to the 兩個人就辦好 above. when you say 十一點才睡覺, you are sleeping when and only when it is 11, signifying that you indeed didn't sleep until 11, again similar to the 兩個人才能辦好,it can be done with and only with 2 people, however that could mean 2+ people too, so your original sentence could mean you slept later than 11
Zukaberg
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-30T17:50:56.113Z
got it. Yes your ideas about logical markers are similar to my. But "if and only if" according to mathematics, says that 2+ are not acceptable, less than 2 are similary unacceptable. Only 2 and strictly 2 are good. So 才 according to your examples are more closer to my idea of "neccesary condition".
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-30T18:07:11.100Z
@coobit exactly, the reason I had iff is because a lot of time the situations are not numerical, such as the first "raining hence ground wet" and "however you think of me" example, there is no "greater than" for raining or how someone thinks of you, however with numerical examples you do indeed take >=. a lot people despite using 就and才 on a daily basis don't understand how they work, or rather u use them so much u forget how they were derived, it was great refreshing my own memory, but sounds like you got it!
Zukaberg
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-29T17:11:35.460Z
2016-11-29T17:25:02.757Z
2016-11-29T17:25:02.757Z
Zukaberg
<p>Many moons of my struggle with 就 and 就是 maybe finally over. But still I need help from natives and others.</p>

<p>There is a book out there with a title: "这就是台湾，这才是台湾"
Once I saw that phrase I thought that I have a key for cracking the 就 thing.</p>

<p>I, certantly, have an opinion about the proper translation of that sentence but I would rather hear an uncontaminated (by my ideas) reasoning of others. Thanks.</p>

<p>To help the explanation of the title of that book, I provide some more examples for 就 and 才 interplay. Translation of those will be appreciated too. </p>

<ol>
<li>你怎么想我就不在乎呢。vs 你怎么想我才不在乎呢。</li>
<li>两个人就能办好。 vs 两个人才能办好。</li>
<li>就是他。 vs 才是他。</li>
<li>就是够了。 vs 才是够了。</li>
</ol>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-26T17:17:00.703Z
Users recommend ＂汉语８００虚词用法词典＂北京：北京语言大学出版社，２０１３.４：  **才**   １２４－１２８页，  **就［副］**  ３９２－３９９页，  **［比较］才［副］就［副］**  ３９９－４０３页
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-28T00:47:27.743Z
我才不在乎 would be something like "you can xxxxx for all I care" or "I don't give a crap" - 我就不在乎 would indicate more of a change as in: (then) (in that case) I won't care (about it) - or - (as for me) I don't care
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-11-29T10:42:57.983Z
user3306356, do you feel that 我才不在乎 is a double negation in a sence? where 才 is a kind of "negative" and 不在乎 is obviously negative.
coobit
<grammar><adverbs><time>
这就是台湾，这才是台湾. Cracking the 就 again
# 这就是台湾，这才是台湾. Cracking the 就 again

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-11-25)

Many moons of my struggle with 就 and 就是 maybe finally over. But still I need help from natives and others.

There is a book out there with a title: "这就是台湾，这才是台湾"
Once I saw that phrase I thought that I have a key for cracking the 就 thing.

I, certantly, have an opinion about the proper translation of that sentence but I would rather hear an uncontaminated (by my ideas) reasoning of others. Thanks.

To help the explanation of the title of that book, I provide some more examples for 就 and 才 interplay. Translation of those will be appreciated too.

1. 你怎么想我就不在乎呢。vs 你怎么想我才不在乎呢。
2. 两个人就能办好。 vs 两个人才能办好。
3. 就是他。 vs 才是他。
4. 就是够了。 vs 才是够了。

**Tags:** grammar, adverbs, time

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Users recommend ＂汉语８００虚词用法词典＂北京：北京语言大学出版社，２０１３.４：  **才**   １２４－１２８页，  **就［副］**  ３９２－３９９页，  **［比较］才［副］就［副］**  ３９９－４０３页  
> **username_2**: 我才不在乎 would be something like "you can xxxxx for all I care" or "I don't give a crap" - 我就不在乎 would indicate more of a change as in: (then) (in that case) I won't care (about it) - or - (as for me) I don't care  
> **username_0**: user3306356, do you feel that 我才不在乎 is a double negation in a sence? where 才 is a kind of "negative" and 不在乎 is obviously negative.  

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## 4 answers

### Answer by username_7 on 2016-11-29. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

A lot of people are trying to explain 就 vs 才 with english equivalent terms, but that makes it very confusing when it can be explained with simple logic statements, and it is crucial to understand the reasoning behind all these cases:

> X就Y -> Y if X
>
> X才Y -> Y if and only if X

The difference is that when using 就, X is not the only condition that Y can happen, while with 才 Y happens [if and only if] X happens. Basic example:

> 下雨的話(X)地就會濕(Y)
>
> The floor will get wet (Y) [if] it rains (X)
>
> 下雨的話(X)地才會濕(Y)
>
> The floor will get wet (Y) [if and only] if it rains (X)

Mutated form of 就 vs 才:

> 你怎么想我(X)就不在乎呢(Y)。
>
> I wouldn't care (Y) [if] however you think of me (X)
>
> 你怎么想我(X)才不在乎呢(Y)。
>
> I wouldn't care (Y) [if and only if] however you think of me (X)

But wait a second, how does that make any sense?

You see, "I wouldn't care" is the result of "however you think of me", the action. By using 就 you are simply stating that you wouldn't care how he thinks of you. But in some cases that's not powerful enough, and only in chinese that you can deliver that kind of tone: you want to tell the other person you don't care so much that "however you think of me" is the ONLY thing that you don't care about, and you care about everything else.

> 两个人(X)就能办好(Y)。
>
> It can be done (Y) [with] two people (X).
>
> 两个人(X)才能办好(Y)。
>
> It can be done (Y) [with and only with] two people (X).
>
> (Note that this can imply strictly 2 persons, or 2 or more people)

The following is harder to explain:

> 就是他。
>
> That is (simply) him
>
> 才是他。
>
> That is (the real) him

You would use 就是他 when you see someone doing something that he normally does.

> 那就是菲尔普斯(Y)，又贏獎牌了(X)
>
> That is Michael Phelps (Y), winning yet another medal (X)
>
> ([Because] of winning another swimming medal, he has to be Michael Phelps)

But then let's say Michael Phelps had been on a losing streak for the past few of games, and he has finally gotten another medal.

> 那才是我知道的菲尔普斯！
>
> Oh yeah that is the true Michael Phelps that I know of!
>
> (This signifies that it is the real Michael Phelps [because and ONLY because] he has won again and he is known for winning. It wasn't him when he wasn't winning. You would use this form when you want to confirm that something is finally back in shape or back to where it used to be.)

Finally, quite straight forward:

> 就是够了
>
> That is enough.
>
> 才是够了。
>
> That is just enough.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks, that's just what I need. But that "I wouldn't care (Y) [if and only if] however you think of me (X)" and "I don't care so much that it is the only thing I don't care in this world." the construction gives me headache. :)  
> **username_7**: @username_0 Yeah grammatically it doesn't make sense just because there is no direct translation in english, but it helps a lot if you treat it as more of an action and reaction  
> **username_0**: How does you "iff=short for "if and only if" make sence in these examples:1)回来再上上网，发几个伊妹儿，搞到十一点才睡觉。 2)昨晚我十一时才睡觉，因此今天起床晚了。 3)她直到11点才上床睡觉。  
> **username_7**: @username_0 Those examples are quite similar so Ill try to answer them all at once, they all have the same "十一點才睡覺" When you say "十一點就睡覺", again you are simply saying that you will sleep if the time is 11, it doesn't exclude the time where time is NOT 11, similar to the 兩個人就辦好 above. when you say 十一點才睡覺, you are sleeping when and only when it is 11, signifying that you indeed didn't sleep until 11, again similar to the 兩個人才能辦好,it can be done with and only with 2 people, however that could mean 2+ people too, so your original sentence could mean you slept later than 11  
> **username_0**: got it. Yes your ideas about logical markers are similar to my. But "if and only if" according to mathematics, says that 2+ are not acceptable, less than 2 are similary unacceptable. Only 2 and strictly 2 are good. So 才 according to your examples are more closer to my idea of "neccesary condition".  
> **username_7**: @username_0 exactly, the reason I had iff is because a lot of time the situations are not numerical, such as the first "raining hence ground wet" and "however you think of me" example, there is no "greater than" for raining or how someone thinks of you, however with numerical examples you do indeed take >=. a lot people despite using 就and才 on a daily basis don't understand how they work, or rather u use them so much u forget how they were derived, it was great refreshing my own memory, but sounds like you got it!  

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### Answer by username_3 on 2016-11-26. Score: 2

This is our considered opinion. Hope it helps.

Once you have ended your striggle to understand 就 and 才， you certantly need to begin your striggle to spell English correctly!

这就是台湾，这才是台湾。
This and only this is Taiwan.

你怎么想我就不在乎呢。（not said this way)  
你怎么想我就不在乎了。 I can't keep worrying about how you feel.

你怎么想我才不在乎呢。 I don't care what you think.

两个人就能办好。 You just need 2 people to finish this work.

两个人才能办好。 You have to have at least 2 people to finish this work.

就是他。 That's him.

才是他。(这才是他。） That is how he is.

就是够了。 (maybe try: 我受够了。 I've had enough! (angry))
It's enough.

(再给我XX)才是够了。(give me more,) then it will be enough.

这才是够了。 It's not enough./ Only this is enough.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: striggle…………………?  
> **username_3**: OP may have meant to write 'struggle', who knows?  
> **username_2**: Yes, wasn't sure if it was meant to be satirical or not.  
> **username_0**: @username_3, What do you think about those interpretations: 1)"你怎么想我才不在乎呢" - "I just reached the bare minimum for not caring about what you think." 2)"你怎么想我就不在乎了" - "I have long ago reached the level needed not to care about what you think."  
> **username_3**: Hey, I'm no expert, just a learner, but my woman is pretty good! 你怎么想 here  equates to something like 'whatever you think' 我才不在乎 I would put as 'I don't care' I don't see any mention of a bare minimum. Over interpretation I think. 我就不在乎了 literally 'I (in) that (case) not care'. I paraphrase that as 'I don't care about (that). That's how we got to the answers I gave. In 2) you can interpret that so, but I don't know where you got 'long ago' from, unless you provide more context. Everything changes with context.  
> **username_4**: Google translate?  

---

### Answer by username_0 on 2016-11-26. Score: 1

Now I will try to answer my own question. Judging by the opinions gathered here, I think the nature of 才 and 就 can be explained easily by this definition:

1. 就 - already. It is a marker of a sufficient minimum.
2. 才 - barely. It is a marker of a necessary minimum.

For example:

* 她三岁就会说话. She **already** learned to speak when she became three. (3 years was sufficient for her)
* 她三岁才会说话. She learned to speak **only** when she became three. (3 years was a necessary threshold for her)
* **Only|barely(才)** three is enough to finish this task. (3 is a minimum number)
* Three man is **already(就)** enough to finish this task. (3 is a sufficient number)
* 你怎么现在就回家 It's 6, you are supposed to be home at 9.
* 你怎么现在才回家 It's 11:30 you were supposed to be home at 9.
* 我们九点上课，可是他八点就来了。We start class at 9am, but he came as early as 8 o’clock.
* 我们九点上课，可是他九点一刻才来。We start class at nine o’clock, but he didn’t come until quarter past.

So when we say something like this:

> 要是他不来，我们**就**走吧。

usually such sentences (要是...就) translate 就 as "then":

> If they don't come, **then** we will leave.

But now I think 就 is more "already" than "then" (or rather 就 has a an original connotation of "already" (i.e. sufficient conditions for something to be true are met).

P.S. can someone explain what "去才去" means?

* 如果方便**去才去**.
* 外国上学是不是想**去才去**? 是不是很自由的想去就去不想去就不去?

> Thank NS.X. for answer:
>
> 去才去(is a shortened 想去,才去) = **Only then** go, when you want to. *(Once you know the fact that you want to go, then you can go.)*
>
> 去就去(is a shortened 想去,就去) = If you want to go, then **already** go. *(You've already been standing here for an hour unable to move! It is taking to long for you to do this. Go already!).*

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: If only the Chinese language were simple, people like me would have no trouble learning it! Sadly, it is not and I do!  
> **username_0**: 超酷超帅型头型男, I have changed the first 2 examples from sleeping to "language learning". Hope they will be ok.  
> **username_5**: Your understanding is correct but this only covers the modern, adverbial usage. Some other answers and comments disagreed with this way of "meta" explanation fundamentally because they took into consideration the other usages of these characters.  In 外国人上学是不是想去才去，想去 is the necessary condition，想去 才 去 = wanting to go (i.e. willingly) - only then - go (to school). "Is that so in foreign countries, kids go to school only when they're willing to?"  
> **username_5**: @超酷超帅型头型男 My response was towards this answer instead of your comment, meta was the way username_0 tends to understand Chinese, and yes 才 in the example is agreeing with his understanding, but he wasn't sure and was asking about it.  
> **username_0**: @超酷超帅型头型男, I have added 现在 to the examples. Originally I thought 现在 was somehow implied by using 才,就 with 回家, but any way with 现在 added the sentences sound clearer.  
> **username_6**: There are three basic definitions for 就 at the minimum.  [1.Then ] [2. Only / just] [ 3. near / close to /soon]. simplify to one single definition cannot cover all three noninterchangeable functions of 就. (see my last comment on my answer)  
> **username_5**: I saw your update, it's not (想)(去才去), but (想去)(才/就)(去). 想去 is clause 1 and the second 去 is clause 2.  

---

### Answer by username_6 on 2016-11-25. Score: 1

My earlier answer depended on dictionaries' definitions too much. I mean I use the language, I should know what the function of 就 in different context. In practical sense, at the root, 就 as an adverb has three basic meanings, and they can extend to more meanings with different components, for example, 就座, 就業, 就地, 就緒 and 就捕 are all unique terms that have 就 as a component, that doesn't mean 就 has the meaning of " **take** the seat, **get** a job, **on** the spot, **already** complete and **be** captured.

1.then; right away

2.only; just

3.near; close to

Without clear context, the following phrase can be interpreted differently:

有錢就買車- when I have money, then I would buy a car
(就= 1.then; immediately)

有錢就買車- whenever I have money, I only use it to buy car
(就= 2. only; just)

有錢就買車 have money and soon will buy a car.
(就=3. Near; close to; soon)

To avoid confusion, we have to make the context more clear, .

等我有錢就去買車- when I have money, then I would buy a car
(就= 1.then; immediately)

我一有錢就只知道買車- whenever I have money, I only use it to buy car
(就= 2. only; just)

我有錢，就快買車了- I have money and soon will buy a car.
(就=3. Near; close to; soon)

as for 才, it too carries the meanings of "only; just"

the context of 这就是台湾, 这才是台湾 gave room for different interpretations. 这 could mean "这里(here)" or "这样(this way/like this)"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

According to some dictionaries. 就 has 7 meanings as an adverb, 6 as a verb, 3 as a preposition, and 2 as a conjunction.

You can check it out at: <http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/808/>

In 这**就**是台湾，就 is an adverb (就 *[3] [adv] exactly; precisely; definitely* )

* 这**就**是台湾 = This **precisely**, is Taiwan.

才 as an adverb is simpler, it means "only", only then or "just"

* 这**才**是台湾 = **Only** this, is Taiwan.

As for your example sentences:

> 1a. 你怎么想我**就**不在乎呢。 As for how you think, I **definitely** don't care. (就 *[3] [adv] exactly; precisely; definitely* )
>
> 1b. 你怎么想我**才**不在乎呢。As for how you think, I **just** don't care.
>
> 2a. 两个人**就**能办好。**Just** two people can finish it. (就 *[4] [adv] only; merely; just*)
>
> 2b. 两个人**才**能办好。 **Only** (having) two people can finish it
>
> 3a. **就**是他。 It **definitely** is him.
>
> 3b. **才**是他。 **Only then**, is him.
>
> 4a. **就**是够了。 **Forthwith** is enough (就 *[1] [adv] at once; forthwith; right away* )
>
> 4b. **才**是够了。**Only then** is enough

Respond to comments:

才 = "**only then**" in 2b. it is an adverb for 能 - (才能= **only then**, can)

In 1b, 才 = " **just**". It is an adjective for 我- (我**才** = **if it is just me / concerning just me**, I don't care).

You can tell 才 is the adjective "just" for the noun when it is followed by a negative statement denoted by 不 or 没

```
我不认识你= I don't know you
我(才)不认识你= (as far as I am concerned) I don't know you / I (just) don't know you

我没有那么多钱= I don't have that much money
我(才)没有那么多钱=  (as far as I am concerned) 
I don't have that much money / I (just) don't have that much money

```

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Well, I have seen many dictionaries. I'm looking for a more uniform explanation of 就 and 才, more lingustical.  IMHO  就 - is a sufficient contition marker(already, far too viable condition)  and  才-is a necessary condition marker (minimum viable contion).  
> **username_6**: 就 in different sentences has different meanings, there's no single definition that can represent 就  alone. Even 才 can mean "only" or "just" (see 1b and 2b)  
> **username_0**: username_6 Ho, I may sound rude or unrespectful, but it is not so at all. Please, can you AVOID using Just and Only in your examples. Make the translation more long and exposing inner logic. For example: Instead of "As for how you think, I just don't care." I would translate it as "As for how you think, I BARELY care (that is almost don't give a dime)." with more structure to the sentence in the brackets after the main transaltion. Thanks. Please don't be offended. Just and only they are Too vauge, they mean to much..  
> **username_0**: "there's no single definition" I thnk I have one now. :) I'm just trying to see if it's right by looking at your translations. I will answer my own POST and will give out my take on "the single definition" when more people respond.  
> **username_6**: The more detailed translation of 我**才**不在乎 would be (**as far as just**  I **concern**. I don't care)  
> **username_0**: Now that is interesting. You are saying that 才 modifies 我! I thought 才 is an indicator of "almost not the case that" or "it is barely the case that".  
> **username_6**: 才 = "only then" in 2b. it is an adverb for 能 - (才能= only then, can); In 1b, 才 = " just". It is an adjective for 我- (我才 = if it is just me / concerning just me,  I don't care  
> **username_0**: The example "有錢就買車" as having a SUPERPOSITION of THREE translations is a great one! Thanks. And in all those possibles interpretations 就 has smth to do with meeting sufficient requirements for making a purchase. So my model holds :)  
> **username_6**: No, the three different functions of 就 are clearly not interchangeable. (1) "have money, **then** buy car" suit your model, but (2) " have money, **only** buy car" and (3) "have money, **soon** buy car" do not suit the model. You can check it by remove the so call requirement "有錢" , and the phrase would become 就買車 , that can only mean "buy car **soon** ". If you add a verb and make it "就知道買車" then it can only mean " **only** think of buy car". There's no element of require in 2 and 3, That's why I said there are three basic definitions for 就 at the minimum.  
> **username_0**: username_6 Ho, I wonder if each of those 3 meanings can be stressed by using commas? Like, for example:有錢,就買車. I know that commas are not native to chinese language, but maybe in modern days it will work?  
> **username_6**: only #3 works. "有錢, 就買車" (have money,  close to buying a car.) you can also expand the sentence to make it more clear-  for example: 我有錢( I have money)到(to) 就(close to )買車(buying a car) 的地步(the point of) = "我有錢到就買車的地步" (I have money to the point of close to buying a car)  

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