<p><code>Is my understanding correct that the "official" Chinese language is the Mandarin?</code>
Yup.</p>

<p><code>In other words, if someone studies Chinese as a foreign language, is he taught the Chinese Mandarin?</code>
Depends on your definition of "study". 
(I'll come back to this in a second)</p>

<p><code>Moreover, are the languages spoken by people living in non-Mandarin areas of the 
aforementioned map essentially the same of Mandarin, or are they very different?</code>
According to the map that you posted, I would even go as far as saying those that live in the 'supposed' Mandarin speaking areas will not necessarily speak Mandarin.</p>

<p>I know plenty of people who have, basically, been living with the in-laws in "Mandarin speaking areas" but who have only ever learned dialects.</p>

<p>I saw some mentions of writing systems aswell...and to be honest each place would most likely, originally, had their own writing system -- a lot of topolectical things people will tell you today "this is only spoken -- we can't write it" but that basically is an uneducated lie. </p>

<p>You can have a read of this:
<a href="http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=5961" rel="nofollow">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=5961</a>
here's a clip:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>In my estimation, there is far too little genuine topolectal literature in China.  Throughout history, nearly everything has been written either in one or another style of Literary Sinitic (Classical Chinese) or in the national koine / lingua franca vernacular (currently known as Pǔtōnghuà 普通话 [in Mainland China] / Guóyǔ 国语 [in Taiwan] / Huáyǔ 华语 [in Southeast Asian countries]), i.e., Mandarin.</p>
  
  <p>I wish that there were vibrant, vital written forms for Hokkien, Shanghainese, Hakka, and many other varieties of Chinese, just as there are for Bengali, Gujarati, Oriya / Odiya, and so forth in India.  Considering the plethora of spoken languages in China, I believe that the development of corresponding written languages for at least the major varieties would lead to mutual enrichment and invigoration, including of the national language.  While there have been some sporadic efforts to write Taiwanese / Amoyese, a full-blown literary tradition has never developed for that language (see Sino-Platonic Papers #89, #92, and #172, as well as the works of Henning Klöter).  There have also been occasional efforts to incorporate a few words of the local language in so-called Shanghainese literature, but it usually amounts only to a sprinkling of Wu lexical items in what is basically a Mandarin matrix.  The situation for the other topolects is even less, with next to none or no written form at all.</p>
  
  <p>It is only in Cantonese that there has been anything approaching true topolectal writing.  I suspect that this has been possible mainly because of the special sociopolitical conditions that obtained while Hong Kong was a colony of the British Empire.  Whatever the reason, I am always pleased when I learn of evidence that written Cantonese is clinging to life.</p>
  
  <p>Consequently, I was delighted to learn about a recently published novel in written Cantonese, called naam4 jan4*2 m4 ho2 ji5 kung4 男人唔可以窮 ("A man Ought not Be Poor" or "A Man Must not Be Poor").  It’s interesting that the book originated in a series of posts on the popular HK web forum HKGOLDEN (gou1 dang1 leon6 taan4 高登論壇), which is part of a computer information portal.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>and here:
<a href="http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=6501" rel="nofollow">http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=6501</a></p>

<blockquote>
  <ol>
  <li><p>After 1949 over the last few decades of British colonial rule, Cantonese was regarded as one more desirable/useful barrier separating HK from China.</p>
  
  <p>As a consequence, the British treated Cantonese with benign neglect which allowed it to develop naturally and without interference, and this is why it has been doing as well as it has.</p>
  
  <p>A couple of years ago the fact that only a handful of people showed up at a demonstration in support of Cantonese in HK shows that most HK speakers do not see it as being under imminent threat.</p>
  
  <p>In Guangzhou people are told that "civilized people speak Mandarin" wénmíng rén shuō Pǔtōnghuà 文明人説普通話, which to me implies that uncivilized people speak "dialects" (topolects) such as Cantonese.</p></li>
  <li><p>Some people hold the view there is only one kind of "proper" Chinese and that is standard written Chinese (i.e., Modern Standard Mandarin). The "dialects" (topolects) are nonstandard or substandard and hence unimportant and uninteresting — except to linguists and dialectologists.</p>
  
  <p>Here in HK I've encountered people who have told me that Cantonese cannot be written and should not be written.</p>
  
  <p>I once told students in a sociolinguistics class I was teaching some years ago that I thought written Cantonese should be standardized and promoted as another Chinese variety. One of the students who was from the mainland and a teacher of Chinese language in HK could barely suppress her outrage, telling me if that were done then written Cantonese would challenge and compete with standard written Chinese and such a situation could not be allowed or tolerated.</p>
  
  <p>But in reality written Cantonese and standard written Chinese have already been in competition in HK for some time, although not on a large scale, and Cantonese could in no way be said to challenge the pre-eminent position of standard written Chinese. The standardization of written Cantonese has been evolving for some time on its own informal, ad hoc basis, but so far this phenomenon hasn't received much attention.</p>
  
  <p>A couple of observations:</p>
  
  <p>The other day as I was riding down the escalator in a train station I saw the phrase 啱晒 ngaam1 saai3 'thoroughly correct, absolutely right', a thoroughly Cantonese expression, written in an advertisement. I assume northerners who don't speak Cantonese would find it completely meaningless, and for the time being that doesn't seem to matter to the advertiser who rented that space, but such an attitude will likely change before long.</p>
  
  <p>The other night at a linguistics conference dinner the man sitting on my left said he was from Chongqing and couldn't understand anything Cantonese speakers in HK were saying. Earlier in the day I had come across the word 萬字夾 maan6 zi6 gaap3/2 which was said to be the Cantonese word for 'paper clip' and equivalent to standard Chinese huíxíngzhēn 回形針 or huíwénzhēn 回纹针, so I showed him the Cantonese word and asked him if it meant anything to him. He said 'no'. I think it may be an old Cantonese word, since most of my Cantonese-Putonghua dictionaries published in HK haven't recorded it, although three other references have listed and defined it.</p></li>
  </ol>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-03-17T00:56:46.747Z
+1 for the very interesting quotes you have included!
hippietrail
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-03-17T01:02:54.053Z
Cantonese Wikipedia: [萬字夾](https://zh-yue.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%90%AC%E5%AD%97%E5%A4%BE)
hippietrail
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-03-16T08:16:54.527Z
2014-03-16T09:00:36.827Z
2014-03-16T09:00:36.827Z
Mou某
<p>According to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3aMap_of_sinitic_dialect_-_English_version.svg" rel="nofollow">this map</a>, there are different Chinese <em>"languages"</em> (<strong>Sinitic languages</strong>) in the Chinese area.</p>

<p>Is my understanding correct that the "official" Chinese language is the <strong>Mandarin</strong>? In other words, if someone studies Chinese as a foreign language, is he taught the Chinese Mandarin?</p>

<p>Moreover, are the languages spoken by people living in non-Mandarin areas of the aforementioned map essentially the same of Mandarin, or are they very different?<br>
In other words, if a foreigner learns Chinese (Mandarin) and goes to Hong Kong, or Shangai, or Taiwan, can he understand and speak with the locals, or not?</p>

<p>To try to make an analogy: in Europe there are different languages, like Italian, French, Spanish, etc. Even if they have something in common, an Italian can't speak with a French person, without proper previous study/training in French. In other words, Italian and French are <em>different</em> languages (even if with some "roots" in common), not just dialects. Is this the same for e.g. Chinese Mandarin and Chinese spoken in Hong Kong or Shangai or Taiwan?</p>

<p>Thanks for the clarifications.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-03-17T00:44:11.880Z
For some analogies: Speakers of Italian, French, or Spanish will have some more difficulty communicating in Moldova or Romania, even though they speak a related language, but native speakers do a lot better than people who learned as adults. They will also have trouble reading Latin.
hippietrail
<mandarin><topolect><shanghainese><taiwanese><hong-kong>
Are Sinitic languages mutually comprehensible?
# Are Sinitic languages mutually comprehensible?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-03-15)

According to [this map](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File%3aMap_of_sinitic_dialect_-_English_version.svg), there are different Chinese *"languages"* (**Sinitic languages**) in the Chinese area.

Is my understanding correct that the "official" Chinese language is the **Mandarin**? In other words, if someone studies Chinese as a foreign language, is he taught the Chinese Mandarin?

Moreover, are the languages spoken by people living in non-Mandarin areas of the aforementioned map essentially the same of Mandarin, or are they very different?  
In other words, if a foreigner learns Chinese (Mandarin) and goes to Hong Kong, or Shangai, or Taiwan, can he understand and speak with the locals, or not?

To try to make an analogy: in Europe there are different languages, like Italian, French, Spanish, etc. Even if they have something in common, an Italian can't speak with a French person, without proper previous study/training in French. In other words, Italian and French are *different* languages (even if with some "roots" in common), not just dialects. Is this the same for e.g. Chinese Mandarin and Chinese spoken in Hong Kong or Shangai or Taiwan?

Thanks for the clarifications.

**Tags:** mandarin, topolect, shanghainese, taiwanese, hong-kong

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: For some analogies: Speakers of Italian, French, or Spanish will have some more difficulty communicating in Moldova or Romania, even though they speak a related language, but native speakers do a lot better than people who learned as adults. They will also have trouble reading Latin.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2014-03-16. Score: 2

`Is my understanding correct that the "official" Chinese language is the Mandarin?`
Yup.

`In other words, if someone studies Chinese as a foreign language, is he taught the Chinese Mandarin?`
Depends on your definition of "study".
(I'll come back to this in a second)

`Moreover, are the languages spoken by people living in non-Mandarin areas of the
aforementioned map essentially the same of Mandarin, or are they very different?`
According to the map that you posted, I would even go as far as saying those that live in the 'supposed' Mandarin speaking areas will not necessarily speak Mandarin.

I know plenty of people who have, basically, been living with the in-laws in "Mandarin speaking areas" but who have only ever learned dialects.

I saw some mentions of writing systems aswell...and to be honest each place would most likely, originally, had their own writing system -- a lot of topolectical things people will tell you today "this is only spoken -- we can't write it" but that basically is an uneducated lie.

You can have a read of this:
<http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=5961>
here's a clip:

> In my estimation, there is far too little genuine topolectal literature in China. Throughout history, nearly everything has been written either in one or another style of Literary Sinitic (Classical Chinese) or in the national koine / lingua franca vernacular (currently known as Pǔtōnghuà 普通话 [in Mainland China] / Guóyǔ 国语 [in Taiwan] / Huáyǔ 华语 [in Southeast Asian countries]), i.e., Mandarin.
>
> I wish that there were vibrant, vital written forms for Hokkien, Shanghainese, Hakka, and many other varieties of Chinese, just as there are for Bengali, Gujarati, Oriya / Odiya, and so forth in India. Considering the plethora of spoken languages in China, I believe that the development of corresponding written languages for at least the major varieties would lead to mutual enrichment and invigoration, including of the national language. While there have been some sporadic efforts to write Taiwanese / Amoyese, a full-blown literary tradition has never developed for that language (see Sino-Platonic Papers #89, #92, and #172, as well as the works of Henning Klöter). There have also been occasional efforts to incorporate a few words of the local language in so-called Shanghainese literature, but it usually amounts only to a sprinkling of Wu lexical items in what is basically a Mandarin matrix. The situation for the other topolects is even less, with next to none or no written form at all.
>
> It is only in Cantonese that there has been anything approaching true topolectal writing. I suspect that this has been possible mainly because of the special sociopolitical conditions that obtained while Hong Kong was a colony of the British Empire. Whatever the reason, I am always pleased when I learn of evidence that written Cantonese is clinging to life.
>
> Consequently, I was delighted to learn about a recently published novel in written Cantonese, called naam4 jan4\*2 m4 ho2 ji5 kung4 男人唔可以窮 ("A man Ought not Be Poor" or "A Man Must not Be Poor"). It’s interesting that the book originated in a series of posts on the popular HK web forum HKGOLDEN (gou1 dang1 leon6 taan4 高登論壇), which is part of a computer information portal.

and here:
<http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=6501>

> 1. After 1949 over the last few decades of British colonial rule, Cantonese was regarded as one more desirable/useful barrier separating HK from China.
>
>    As a consequence, the British treated Cantonese with benign neglect which allowed it to develop naturally and without interference, and this is why it has been doing as well as it has.
>
>    A couple of years ago the fact that only a handful of people showed up at a demonstration in support of Cantonese in HK shows that most HK speakers do not see it as being under imminent threat.
>
>    In Guangzhou people are told that "civilized people speak Mandarin" wénmíng rén shuō Pǔtōnghuà 文明人説普通話, which to me implies that uncivilized people speak "dialects" (topolects) such as Cantonese.
> 2. Some people hold the view there is only one kind of "proper" Chinese and that is standard written Chinese (i.e., Modern Standard Mandarin). The "dialects" (topolects) are nonstandard or substandard and hence unimportant and uninteresting — except to linguists and dialectologists.
>
>    Here in HK I've encountered people who have told me that Cantonese cannot be written and should not be written.
>
>    I once told students in a sociolinguistics class I was teaching some years ago that I thought written Cantonese should be standardized and promoted as another Chinese variety. One of the students who was from the mainland and a teacher of Chinese language in HK could barely suppress her outrage, telling me if that were done then written Cantonese would challenge and compete with standard written Chinese and such a situation could not be allowed or tolerated.
>
>    But in reality written Cantonese and standard written Chinese have already been in competition in HK for some time, although not on a large scale, and Cantonese could in no way be said to challenge the pre-eminent position of standard written Chinese. The standardization of written Cantonese has been evolving for some time on its own informal, ad hoc basis, but so far this phenomenon hasn't received much attention.
>
>    A couple of observations:
>
>    The other day as I was riding down the escalator in a train station I saw the phrase 啱晒 ngaam1 saai3 'thoroughly correct, absolutely right', a thoroughly Cantonese expression, written in an advertisement. I assume northerners who don't speak Cantonese would find it completely meaningless, and for the time being that doesn't seem to matter to the advertiser who rented that space, but such an attitude will likely change before long.
>
>    The other night at a linguistics conference dinner the man sitting on my left said he was from Chongqing and couldn't understand anything Cantonese speakers in HK were saying. Earlier in the day I had come across the word 萬字夾 maan6 zi6 gaap3/2 which was said to be the Cantonese word for 'paper clip' and equivalent to standard Chinese huíxíngzhēn 回形針 or huíwénzhēn 回纹针, so I showed him the Cantonese word and asked him if it meant anything to him. He said 'no'. I think it may be an old Cantonese word, since most of my Cantonese-Putonghua dictionaries published in HK haven't recorded it, although three other references have listed and defined it.

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: +1 for the very interesting quotes you have included!  
> **username_1**: Cantonese Wikipedia: [萬字夾](https://zh-yue.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E8%90%AC%E5%AD%97%E5%A4%BE)  

---

