<p>To be short, the labiodentalization took place in ten rhyme groups called the Ten Labiodental Rhymes (輕唇十韻), which is 東(三), 鐘, 微, 虞, 廢, 文, 元, 陽, 尤, 凡. All of them are hekou (合口) except 尤. All of your examples belong to the rhyme group You (尤韻).</p>
<p>This is because that the labial-initial syllables of the rhyme group You(尤韻) had merged into the rhyme group Yu(虞韻) before the labiodentalization took place.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-05-07T09:11:35.097Z
2021-05-07T09:11:35.097Z
C.K.
<p>The following answer is a translation and summary from <a href="http://www.iacling.org/papers/MJH_Chihkai_Lin.pdf" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Lin (2013:6-8)</a>. This also serves to supplement C.K.'s observation.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Rhymes placed in grade III include eight <em>chongniu</em> rhymes (重紐八韻), ten labiodental rhymes (輕唇十韻), and normal grade III rhymes (普通三等韻).</p>
</li>
<li><p>Openness is determined by the absence of the rounded prenuclear glide /u/ or /w/. The following is a table that summarises the openness (column 2) of each labiodental rhyme (column 1) reconstructed in five references (from left to right: Kalgren, Li Rong, Dong Tonghe, Baxter, Zhu Jianing). The fact that three out of ten labiodental rhymes were unanimously reconstructed as <em>kaikou</em> (東<sub>三</sub>, 陽, and 尤), and that two were either reconstructed as <em>kaikou</em> or <em>hekou</em> (鐘 and 虞), violates the traditional rule that 'grade III <em>hekou</em> is the phonological environment for the labiodentalisation of /p/ to [f]':</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/3b9Xgl.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/3b9Xgl.png" alt="reconstructions" /></a></p>
<p>In Lin's words,</p>
<blockquote>
<p>若是傳統說法中的合口三等是指開合口之分，勢必與韻鏡的分類不符。</p>
<p>If the traditional saying <em>hekou sandeng</em> indeed refers to openness (i.e. absence or presence of the rounded prenuclear glide /u/ or /w/), then it is bound to differ from <em>Yunjing</em>'s classification scheme.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Note</p>
<ul>
<li>/j/ is the necessary prenuclear glide to have the rhymes classified as grade III.</li>
<li>The 東<sub>三</sub>-rhyme is not <em>hekou</em> because /u/ is not prenuclear.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><p>Lin further noticed alternative phonological rules were proposed for labiodentalisation in MC:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(Grade III <em>hekou</em> rule) /p/ → [f] / _ [j] [w] V</p>
<p>(Baxter 1992:47) /p/ → [f] / _ [j] [V, +back]</p>
<p>(Yang 2005:147) /p/ → [f] / _ [j] [V, +central, +back]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>which certainly are more lenient. Baxter permits not only [w] but all back vowels (ranging from [u] to [ɑ]), whereas Yang even permits central vowels. Yang's rule is more flexible (Baxter did not use much central vowels except /ɨ/), but not without fault. Lin argued with Yang's rule, words of the 蒸-rhyme would also undergo labiodentalisation (presence of mid-central vowel /ə/, see below, from <a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%92%B8#Pronunciation" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Wiktionary</a>), although 蒸-rhyme is not any one of the eight known rhymes:</p>
<div class="s-table-container">
<table class="s-table">
<thead>
<tr>
<th style="text-align: center;"></th>
<th style="text-align: center;">Zhengzhang Shangfang</th>
<th style="text-align: center;">Pan Wuyun</th>
<th style="text-align: center;">Shao Rongfen</th>
<th style="text-align: center;">Edwin Pulleyblank</th>
<th style="text-align: center;">Li Rong</th>
<th style="text-align: center;">Wang Li</th>
<th style="text-align: center;">Bernard Karlgren</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;">蒸</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">/t͡ɕɨŋ/</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">/t͡ɕɨŋ/</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">/t͡ɕieŋ/</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">/ciŋ/</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">/t͡ɕiəŋ/</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">/t͡ɕĭəŋ/</td>
<td style="text-align: center;">/t͡ɕi̯əŋ/</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div></li>
<li><p>Lin subsequently proposed the following phonological rule</p>
<blockquote>
<p>/p/ → [f] / _ [j] [+rounded],</p>
</blockquote>
<p>where [+rounded] means EITHER a rounded prenuclear glide (/u/ or /w/, or the <em>hekou</em> element) OR a rounded nucleus. Obviously the first part corresponds to the <em>hekou sandeng</em> rule. The second part accounts for any remaining inconsistencies. Sadly, there is one exception: the 陽-rhyme (neither /a/ or /ɑ/ are rounded). So to compensate for that,</p>
 <pre>
                    [V, –front]
 /p/ → [f] / _ [j] {           }
                    [+rounded]
 </pre>
<p>was proposed. I think this is a big improvement from the historical <em>hekou sandeng</em> rule.</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p><strong>References</strong></p>
<ol>
<li><p>林智凱（2013）〈中古漢語重紐、輕唇與普通三等三者交互關係〉。</p>
</li>
<li><p>Baxter W. A Handbook of Old Chinese Phonology. Berlin: Mouton De Gruyter; 1992.</p>
</li>
<li><p>楊劍橋（2005）《漢語音韻學講義》，復旦大學出版社。</p>
</li>
</ol>
<p><strong>Appendix: IPA vowels and their backness</strong></p>
<img src="https://i.sstatic.net/iaCOCm.png">

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-05-08T18:01:21.860Z
Great answer! I saw the Baxter rule, but the additional alternatives you mention are very interesting. I’m still curious what e.g. the Yunjing authors were thinking when laying out the structure and mixing “light” and “heavy” rhymes so freely (compared to later books that split them out as separate initials). That might be impossible to know though, and your thorough answer still deserves to be accepted :)
bellkev
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-05-07T12:02:55.500Z
2021-05-07T12:49:13.287Z
2021-05-07T12:49:13.287Z
L Parker
<p><a href="http://www.chinaknowledge.de/Literature/Science/yunjing.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">This page on &quot;ChinaKnowledge&quot;</a> as well as Pulleyblank's <em>Middle Chinese</em> (published 1984, p.86) say that such rhymes were placed in grade 3 hekou (合口三等) in the standard rhyme tables. However certain rhyme groups like 缶/否 are kaikou (開口) in <a href="https://archive.wul.waseda.ac.jp/kosho/ho04/ho04_00377/ho04_00377_p0049.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer">the Yunjing</a>, even though Pulleyblank considers them to be an &quot;f&quot; sound (p.89).</p>
<p>Is there any logic to how they are split between kaikou/hekou?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-09-18T05:52:08.287Z
Ima keep it  with ya chief, I aint understood a word you just said
小奥利奥
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-09-18T06:47:41.573Z
@小奥利奥 If you're interested you could look through this page on the: [Rime table](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_table).
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-09-18T07:57:03.107Z
Baxter’s A Handbook of Old Chinese Phonology, pp. 62-63 probably has answer. He describes that labial-initial syllables (exactly 非敷奉微) have no contrast between finals with -w- and without (there are no _pon_ <> _pwon_). Hence, the compilers of rhyme tables have freedom to put them to whichever class they want.
Alexander Z.
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-04-27T21:48:40.587Z
For anyone else who may be interested in this, I still have not found a completely satisfactory answer. One guess is that because the "light"/"heavy" distinction was current in the Late Middle Chinese pronunciation used by the creators of the Yunjing, it may have been "obvious" which was which. I hightly recommend Shen's "A Phonological History of Chinese" for anyone else interested in the topic.
bellkev
<poetry><middle-chinese>
What rhyme groups had "light" labial initials (輕唇音) such as 非 in the Yunjing (韻鏡)?
# What rhyme groups had "light" labial initials (輕唇音) such as 非 in the Yunjing (韻鏡)?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-09-18)

[This page on "ChinaKnowledge"](http://www.chinaknowledge.de/Literature/Science/yunjing.html) as well as Pulleyblank's *Middle Chinese* (published 1984, p.86) say that such rhymes were placed in grade 3 hekou (合口三等) in the standard rhyme tables. However certain rhyme groups like 缶/否 are kaikou (開口) in [the Yunjing](https://archive.wul.waseda.ac.jp/kosho/ho04/ho04_00377/ho04_00377_p0049.jpg), even though Pulleyblank considers them to be an "f" sound (p.89).

Is there any logic to how they are split between kaikou/hekou?

**Tags:** poetry, middle-chinese

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Ima keep it  with ya chief, I aint understood a word you just said  
> **username_2**: @username_1 If you're interested you could look through this page on the: [Rime table](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rime_table).  
> **username_3**: Baxter’s A Handbook of Old Chinese Phonology, pp. 62-63 probably has answer. He describes that labial-initial syllables (exactly 非敷奉微) have no contrast between finals with -w- and without (there are no _pon_ <> _pwon_). Hence, the compilers of rhyme tables have freedom to put them to whichever class they want.  
> **username_0**: For anyone else who may be interested in this, I still have not found a completely satisfactory answer. One guess is that because the "light"/"heavy" distinction was current in the Late Middle Chinese pronunciation used by the creators of the Yunjing, it may have been "obvious" which was which. I hightly recommend Shen's "A Phonological History of Chinese" for anyone else interested in the topic.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_5 on 2021-05-07. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

The following answer is a translation and summary from [Lin (2013:6-8)](http://www.iacling.org/papers/MJH_Chihkai_Lin.pdf). This also serves to supplement C.K.'s observation.

1. Rhymes placed in grade III include eight *chongniu* rhymes (重紐八韻), ten labiodental rhymes (輕唇十韻), and normal grade III rhymes (普通三等韻).
2. Openness is determined by the absence of the rounded prenuclear glide /u/ or /w/. The following is a table that summarises the openness (column 2) of each labiodental rhyme (column 1) reconstructed in five references (from left to right: Kalgren, Li Rong, Dong Tonghe, Baxter, Zhu Jianing). The fact that three out of ten labiodental rhymes were unanimously reconstructed as *kaikou* (東三, 陽, and 尤), and that two were either reconstructed as *kaikou* or *hekou* (鐘 and 虞), violates the traditional rule that 'grade III *hekou* is the phonological environment for the labiodentalisation of /p/ to [f]':

   [![reconstructions](https://i.sstatic.net/3b9Xgl.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/3b9Xgl.png)

   In Lin's words,

   > 若是傳統說法中的合口三等是指開合口之分，勢必與韻鏡的分類不符。
   >
   > If the traditional saying *hekou sandeng* indeed refers to openness (i.e. absence or presence of the rounded prenuclear glide /u/ or /w/), then it is bound to differ from *Yunjing*'s classification scheme.

   Note

   * /j/ is the necessary prenuclear glide to have the rhymes classified as grade III.
   * The 東三-rhyme is not *hekou* because /u/ is not prenuclear.
3. Lin further noticed alternative phonological rules were proposed for labiodentalisation in MC:

   > (Grade III *hekou* rule) /p/ → [f] / \_ [j] [w] V
   >
   > (Baxter 1992:47) /p/ → [f] / \_ [j] [V, +back]
   >
   > (Yang 2005:147) /p/ → [f] / \_ [j] [V, +central, +back]

   which certainly are more lenient. Baxter permits not only [w] but all back vowels (ranging from [u] to [ɑ]), whereas Yang even permits central vowels. Yang's rule is more flexible (Baxter did not use much central vowels except /ɨ/), but not without fault. Lin argued with Yang's rule, words of the 蒸-rhyme would also undergo labiodentalisation (presence of mid-central vowel /ə/, see below, from [Wiktionary](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E8%92%B8#Pronunciation)), although 蒸-rhyme is not any one of the eight known rhymes:

   |  | Zhengzhang Shangfang | Pan Wuyun | Shao Rongfen | Edwin Pulleyblank | Li Rong | Wang Li | Bernard Karlgren |
   | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- | --- |
   | 蒸 | /t͡ɕɨŋ/ | /t͡ɕɨŋ/ | /t͡ɕieŋ/ | /ciŋ/ | /t͡ɕiəŋ/ | /t͡ɕĭəŋ/ | /t͡ɕi̯əŋ/ |
4. Lin subsequently proposed the following phonological rule

   > /p/ → [f] / \_ [j] [+rounded],

   where [+rounded] means EITHER a rounded prenuclear glide (/u/ or /w/, or the *hekou* element) OR a rounded nucleus. Obviously the first part corresponds to the *hekou sandeng* rule. The second part accounts for any remaining inconsistencies. Sadly, there is one exception: the 陽-rhyme (neither /a/ or /ɑ/ are rounded). So to compensate for that,

   ```

                       [V, –front]
    /p/ → [f] / _ [j] {           }
                       [+rounded]
    
   ```

   was proposed. I think this is a big improvement from the historical *hekou sandeng* rule.

**References**

1. 林智凱（2013）〈中古漢語重紐、輕唇與普通三等三者交互關係〉。
2. Baxter W. A Handbook of Old Chinese Phonology. Berlin: Mouton De Gruyter; 1992.
3. 楊劍橋（2005）《漢語音韻學講義》，復旦大學出版社。

**Appendix: IPA vowels and their backness**

![](https://i.sstatic.net/iaCOCm.png)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Great answer! I saw the Baxter rule, but the additional alternatives you mention are very interesting. I’m still curious what e.g. the Yunjing authors were thinking when laying out the structure and mixing “light” and “heavy” rhymes so freely (compared to later books that split them out as separate initials). That might be impossible to know though, and your thorough answer still deserves to be accepted :)  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2021-05-07. Score: 2

To be short, the labiodentalization took place in ten rhyme groups called the Ten Labiodental Rhymes (輕唇十韻), which is 東(三), 鐘, 微, 虞, 廢, 文, 元, 陽, 尤, 凡. All of them are hekou (合口) except 尤. All of your examples belong to the rhyme group You (尤韻).

This is because that the labial-initial syllables of the rhyme group You(尤韻) had merged into the rhyme group Yu(虞韻) before the labiodentalization took place.


---

