<p>There's an extent to which Chinese language tones conflict with the way that English language uses intonation. For a simple example, in English, there is a rising tone on the end of a sentence that contains a question. This means that if you're asking a question that ends with a name like Mao Zedong, you've got to make a choice between using English and Chinese intonation to do so. Similarly, in English we tend to use a falling tone at the end of an utterance to denote anger or directness (you know when your parent is like &quot;Come here right NOW!&quot;). I think this conflict is the reason that most of the time in spoken English, even people who are familiar with Chinese language may not pronounce the tones correctly. For an English audience, it may be more importance to maintain the information contained the the English intonation than it is to pronounce a Chinese word in a way that sounds correct to a Chinese speaker.</p>
<p>To respond to JBentley's comment, there is absolutely a distinction between &quot;zh&quot; and &quot;j&quot; in English. The original answer is discussing the difference between the &quot;zh&quot; sound in words like &quot;pleasure&quot; and &quot;casual&quot;, which people do often use to pronounce the j in Beijing.
As for &quot;how hard is it to just use the J in jingle&quot;, the answer for most English speakers is &quot;not hard at all!&quot; But you can't expect people to magically know the native pronunciation of Beijing when they've only ever heard it said by English speaker, who as you've noted, largely use a soft &quot;zh&quot; sound.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-11-22T12:36:52.090Z
Welcome to Stackexchange and thanks for your post. However you should be aware that there are rules on this site, and answers should only be posted if they answer the actual question being asked. General commentary should not be posted as an answer. Regarding your 2nd paragraph, I stand by my comment: we do not have the separate sounds ZH and J (as pronounced in Chinese) in the English language. Furthermore, there is no S (as in pleaSure) sound in Chinese although R can be an approximation with some speakers. ZH in Chinese does not sound anything like the S in pleasure.
JBentley
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-11-22T12:38:11.463Z
Additionally, pronouncing Beijing using the J in jingle is still incorrect in Chinese and would actually sound more like Beizhing (J in jingle being a better approximation for the chinese ZH). The chinese J and the J in jingle are not the same. We simply do not have anything resembling the chinese J in English, and any attempt to pronounce Beijing using the English alphabet is going to be wrong (albeit J from jingle is an improvement over S in pleasure).
JBentley
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-11-22T01:10:04.650Z
2021-11-22T01:10:04.650Z
Irene McInnes
<p>As a native speaker, this is <strong>what I do</strong> in such a case:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>If my listener is not Chinese, does not know Chinese, or I am speaking in an event that doesn't require my listener(s) to know Chinese - I pronounce it in <strong>whatever tone I feel comfortable</strong>. Sometimes I mimic the listeners' pronunciation. (However, if I can guess the tones, I may tend to guess, because that makes me comfortable.)</p></li>
<li><p>If my listener is Chinese, I usually guess the tones, and add that I am not sure if the tones I used are correct.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Chinese people will understand that you cannot make the tones perfectly correct - when you are only given the Pinyin without tone marks - because there's missing information.</p>

<hr>

<p>Here is my idea about your options:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Using neutral tone is creative :-) I have never heard anyone do that. It will make the pronunciation funny.</p></li>
<li><p>I believe this would be okay if both you and your audience are English speakers, corresponding to my first point above.</p></li>
<li><p>This is corresponding to my second point above. Guessing the tones require knowledge about common names and naming conventions. This is possible, but may not be accurate for all names. This would be the best you can do. In most cases, last names are easier because there are only tens of frequently used last names.</p></li>
</ol>

<hr>

<p>A few examples for guessing last names: Zhang (first tone: 张, 章), Li (third tone: 李), Liu (second tone, 刘）, Wang (second tone, 王 - but it might be first tone, 汪, which is less frequent).</p>

<p>First names are harder. For common names it is still possible, like Ming (second tone, 明), Hao (forth tone, 浩 or 昊). Names like Jinping would be difficult but I would guess it to be 金平 if it is not the president's name, because 金 is more common than 近.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-04-05T23:05:08.300Z
2016-04-05T23:05:08.300Z
bfrguci
<p>In the West, Chinese names almost never seem to be written using pinyin tone marks or numbers. For example, the <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping" rel="noreferrer">current president</a>'s name will simply be written as Xi Jinping. I had to Google to discover that it is Xí Jìnpíng, and even this top ranked Google search result gives what sounds to me like a very <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GKck6Ed5d8" rel="noreferrer">incorrect pronunciation</a>.</p>

<p>I realise that it is assumed that the target audience will simply Westernise the pronunciation regardless, but what is the correct approach to pronouncing these names?</p>

<p>Options I see:</p>

<p><strong>1.</strong> Use the correct sound and neutral tone.</p>

<p><strong>2.</strong> Treat it like a Westernised version of the name, and pronounce it like an English speaking person would.</p>

<p><strong>3.</strong> Acquire name pronunciation knowledge. Is this option even possible? Is there a 1 - 1 mapping between a pinyin-without-tones name and a character?</p>

<pronunciation><pinyin><tones><names>
How do I pronounce romanised Chinese names which lack tone marks?
# How do I pronounce romanised Chinese names which lack tone marks?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-04-05)

In the West, Chinese names almost never seem to be written using pinyin tone marks or numbers. For example, the [current president](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi_Jinping)'s name will simply be written as Xi Jinping. I had to Google to discover that it is Xí Jìnpíng, and even this top ranked Google search result gives what sounds to me like a very [incorrect pronunciation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GKck6Ed5d8).

I realise that it is assumed that the target audience will simply Westernise the pronunciation regardless, but what is the correct approach to pronouncing these names?

Options I see:

**1.** Use the correct sound and neutral tone.

**2.** Treat it like a Westernised version of the name, and pronounce it like an English speaking person would.

**3.** Acquire name pronunciation knowledge. Is this option even possible? Is there a 1 - 1 mapping between a pinyin-without-tones name and a character?

**Tags:** pronunciation, pinyin, tones, names


---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2016-04-05. Score: 4 | Accepted answer

As a native speaker, this is **what I do** in such a case:

1. If my listener is not Chinese, does not know Chinese, or I am speaking in an event that doesn't require my listener(s) to know Chinese - I pronounce it in **whatever tone I feel comfortable**. Sometimes I mimic the listeners' pronunciation. (However, if I can guess the tones, I may tend to guess, because that makes me comfortable.)
2. If my listener is Chinese, I usually guess the tones, and add that I am not sure if the tones I used are correct.

Chinese people will understand that you cannot make the tones perfectly correct - when you are only given the Pinyin without tone marks - because there's missing information.

---

Here is my idea about your options:

1. Using neutral tone is creative :-) I have never heard anyone do that. It will make the pronunciation funny.
2. I believe this would be okay if both you and your audience are English speakers, corresponding to my first point above.
3. This is corresponding to my second point above. Guessing the tones require knowledge about common names and naming conventions. This is possible, but may not be accurate for all names. This would be the best you can do. In most cases, last names are easier because there are only tens of frequently used last names.

---

A few examples for guessing last names: Zhang (first tone: 张, 章), Li (third tone: 李), Liu (second tone, 刘）, Wang (second tone, 王 - but it might be first tone, 汪, which is less frequent).

First names are harder. For common names it is still possible, like Ming (second tone, 明), Hao (forth tone, 浩 or 昊). Names like Jinping would be difficult but I would guess it to be 金平 if it is not the president's name, because 金 is more common than 近.


---

### Answer by username_1 on 2021-11-22. Score: -1

There's an extent to which Chinese language tones conflict with the way that English language uses intonation. For a simple example, in English, there is a rising tone on the end of a sentence that contains a question. This means that if you're asking a question that ends with a name like Mao Zedong, you've got to make a choice between using English and Chinese intonation to do so. Similarly, in English we tend to use a falling tone at the end of an utterance to denote anger or directness (you know when your parent is like "Come here right NOW!"). I think this conflict is the reason that most of the time in spoken English, even people who are familiar with Chinese language may not pronounce the tones correctly. For an English audience, it may be more importance to maintain the information contained the the English intonation than it is to pronounce a Chinese word in a way that sounds correct to a Chinese speaker.

To respond to username_0's comment, there is absolutely a distinction between "zh" and "j" in English. The original answer is discussing the difference between the "zh" sound in words like "pleasure" and "casual", which people do often use to pronounce the j in Beijing.
As for "how hard is it to just use the J in jingle", the answer for most English speakers is "not hard at all!" But you can't expect people to magically know the native pronunciation of Beijing when they've only ever heard it said by English speaker, who as you've noted, largely use a soft "zh" sound.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Welcome to Stackexchange and thanks for your post. However you should be aware that there are rules on this site, and answers should only be posted if they answer the actual question being asked. General commentary should not be posted as an answer. Regarding your 2nd paragraph, I stand by my comment: we do not have the separate sounds ZH and J (as pronounced in Chinese) in the English language. Furthermore, there is no S (as in pleaSure) sound in Chinese although R can be an approximation with some speakers. ZH in Chinese does not sound anything like the S in pleasure.  
> **username_0**: Additionally, pronouncing Beijing using the J in jingle is still incorrect in Chinese and would actually sound more like Beizhing (J in jingle being a better approximation for the chinese ZH). The chinese J and the J in jingle are not the same. We simply do not have anything resembling the chinese J in English, and any attempt to pronounce Beijing using the English alphabet is going to be wrong (albeit J from jingle is an improvement over S in pleasure).  

---

