<p>Other than context, stress can also be a clue. Typically when the construction is used to express &quot;already&quot; there will be stress on the verb (perhaps in an indignant tone!).</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-07-05T22:08:26.160Z
What about when it means *all*, is the stress in the subject?
Puco4
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-07-30T20:54:53.547Z
@Puco4 When it means _all_, there's usually no particular stress, as it's not a very emphatic sentence. If you wanted to emphasize "all", you'd probably also change the wording to 他们**全部都**吃饭了.
Lionel Rowe
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-07-05T22:04:50.917Z
2020-07-05T22:04:50.917Z
MCD
<blockquote>
  <p><em>It expresses "already" with the structure: Subj. + 都 + Predicate + 了</em></p>
</blockquote>

<p>Only '了' indicates 'completion of a verb' in this structure</p>

<p>'都' in [Subj. + 都 + Predicate + 了]  mean 'even'.  Try write a sentence in this structure without 了, and you wouldn't say 都 expresses "already". </p>

<p>Example:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>"他(都)说 不知道" = "(even) he said he didn't know" </p></li>
<li><p>"他(都)说 不知道 (了)" = "He (has already) said he didn't know" or "(Even) he said he didn't know"</p></li>
</ul>

<blockquote>
  <p><em>It is used for "all" or "both" with the structure: Subj. + 都 + [Verb Phrase]</em></p>
</blockquote>

<p>The 'all' and 'both' meanings can only apply with multiple objects </p>

<p>Example: </p>

<ul>
<li><p>[A and B (都) + Verb Phrase] = [A and B (both) + Verb Phrase]</p></li>
<li><p>[subjects (都) + Verb Phrase] = [subjects (All) + Verb Phrase]</p></li>
</ul>

<p>For a singular subject, 都 cannot expresses the meaning of 'all' or 'both' . It can only expresses 'Even' or 'too/ also' (Cantonese)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-06T10:59:43.497Z
I haven't found a reference where 都 can be considered as  'too' or 'also' but instead it can be translated as 'even' ([see this dictionary](https://dict.naver.com/linedict/zhendict/dict.html#/cnen/entry/06c58d0907294c249ce100c70086729a)), which also covers the point.
Puco4
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-06T11:02:03.703Z
http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/329/ [3] [粵] [adv] also; too. Seem like it is a Cantonese usage of 都
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-08-11T12:30:58.953Z
I do not think here the 了 is [perfective](https://chinese.stackexchange.com/a/40507/25265) indicating *completion*, but instead it is a *change of state* 了 as it occurs at the end of the sentence.
Puco4
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2020-08-11T12:33:39.233Z
I think it could be either
Tang Ho
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2020-08-11T15:59:58.117Z
From *C. Li, S. Thompson, Mandarin Chinese. A functional reference grammar*: "As long as 了 occurs at the end of a sentence after any word other than a verb, it is easy to be sure that it is the CRS [Current Relevant State - i.e. the change of state] 了 [instead of the perfective 了]". In the sentence "她们都吃饭了。", 了 appears after the object 饭 and it can only be a change-of-state 了.
Puco4
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-06-01T21:42:58.013Z
2020-06-06T22:34:41.437Z
2020-06-06T22:34:41.437Z
Tang Ho
<p>In my lessons, I came across two different meanings for the adverb 都 dōu:</p>
<ol>
<li>&quot;Already&quot; with the structure: <code>Subj. + 都 + Predicate + 了</code>, where 了 stands for completion of the predicate (see <a href="https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Expressing_%22already%22_with_%22dou%22" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Expressing &quot;already&quot; with &quot;dou&quot; in resources.allsetlearning</a>).</li>
<li>&quot;All&quot; or &quot;both&quot; with the structure: <code>Subj. + 都 + Predicate</code> (see <a href="https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/The_%22all%22_adverb_%22dou%22" rel="nofollow noreferrer">The &quot;all&quot; adverb &quot;dou&quot; in resources.allsetlearning</a>).</li>
</ol>
<p><strong>I wonder if it is possible in some sentences to distinguish between these meanings without more context.</strong> In particular, I'm thinking about the situation when the sentence has a final particle 了, such as:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>她们都吃饭了。</p>
<p>1: They have <em>already</em> eaten.</p>
<p>2: <em>All</em> of them ate.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Maybe there is not much difference, but I believe in English there is a difference in the <em>emphasis</em>: in 1., the emphasis is on the <em>time</em> (they ate before expected); while in 2., the emphasis is on the <em>number of people</em>. For example, if this was a sentence said in a restaurant by a waiter on the phone, interpretation 1. could mean a particular table just finished eating then, while interpretation 2. could mean all tables finished eating.</p>

<grammar><meaning><difference><phrase><adverbs>
Is it possible to know what 都 means in "Subj + 都 + Predicate + 了"?
# Is it possible to know what 都 means in "Subj + 都 + Predicate + 了"?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-06-01)

In my lessons, I came across two different meanings for the adverb 都 dōu:

1. "Already" with the structure: `Subj. + 都 + Predicate + 了`, where 了 stands for completion of the predicate (see [Expressing "already" with "dou" in resources.allsetlearning](https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/Expressing_%22already%22_with_%22dou%22)).
2. "All" or "both" with the structure: `Subj. + 都 + Predicate` (see [The "all" adverb "dou" in resources.allsetlearning](https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/The_%22all%22_adverb_%22dou%22)).

**I wonder if it is possible in some sentences to distinguish between these meanings without more context.** In particular, I'm thinking about the situation when the sentence has a final particle 了, such as:

> 她们都吃饭了。
>
> 1: They have *already* eaten.
>
> 2: *All* of them ate.

Maybe there is not much difference, but I believe in English there is a difference in the *emphasis*: in 1., the emphasis is on the *time* (they ate before expected); while in 2., the emphasis is on the *number of people*. For example, if this was a sentence said in a restaurant by a waiter on the phone, interpretation 1. could mean a particular table just finished eating then, while interpretation 2. could mean all tables finished eating.

**Tags:** grammar, meaning, difference, phrase, adverbs


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## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2020-07-05. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

Other than context, stress can also be a clue. Typically when the construction is used to express "already" there will be stress on the verb (perhaps in an indignant tone!).

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: What about when it means *all*, is the stress in the subject?  
> **username_2**: @username_0 When it means _all_, there's usually no particular stress, as it's not a very emphatic sentence. If you wanted to emphasize "all", you'd probably also change the wording to 他们**全部都**吃饭了.  

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### Answer by username_3 on 2020-06-01. Score: 3

> *It expresses "already" with the structure: Subj. + 都 + Predicate + 了*

Only '了' indicates 'completion of a verb' in this structure

'都' in [Subj. + 都 + Predicate + 了] mean 'even'. Try write a sentence in this structure without 了, and you wouldn't say 都 expresses "already".

Example:

* "他(都)说 不知道" = "(even) he said he didn't know"
* "他(都)说 不知道 (了)" = "He (has already) said he didn't know" or "(Even) he said he didn't know"

> *It is used for "all" or "both" with the structure: Subj. + 都 + [Verb Phrase]*

The 'all' and 'both' meanings can only apply with multiple objects

Example:

* [A and B (都) + Verb Phrase] = [A and B (both) + Verb Phrase]
* [subjects (都) + Verb Phrase] = [subjects (All) + Verb Phrase]

For a singular subject, 都 cannot expresses the meaning of 'all' or 'both' . It can only expresses 'Even' or 'too/ also' (Cantonese)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I haven't found a reference where 都 can be considered as  'too' or 'also' but instead it can be translated as 'even' ([see this dictionary](https://dict.naver.com/linedict/zhendict/dict.html#/cnen/entry/06c58d0907294c249ce100c70086729a)), which also covers the point.  
> **username_3**: http://www.cantonese.sheik.co.uk/dictionary/characters/329/ [3] [粵] [adv] also; too. Seem like it is a Cantonese usage of 都  
> **username_0**: I do not think here the 了 is [perfective](https://chinese.stackexchange.com/a/40507/25265) indicating *completion*, but instead it is a *change of state* 了 as it occurs at the end of the sentence.  
> **username_3**: I think it could be either  
> **username_0**: From *C. Li, S. Thompson, Mandarin Chinese. A functional reference grammar*: "As long as 了 occurs at the end of a sentence after any word other than a verb, it is easy to be sure that it is the CRS [Current Relevant State - i.e. the change of state] 了 [instead of the perfective 了]". In the sentence "她们都吃饭了。", 了 appears after the object 饭 and it can only be a change-of-state 了.  

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