<p>This looks really weird, I can't even guess what 無神除神 means before reading your explanation.</p>

<p>I think the main problem is that, 除, when used alone, usually means <em>get rid of</em> rather than <em>except</em>. So the whole phrase become 'no god and get rid of god'.</p>

<p>As far as I know, there's already a 4-character phrase with similar meaning 認主獨一. I'm not sure if that fits your need.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T04:28:21.337Z
Hahaha. The world of Google translate. Thanks so much ! I was not aware of that phrase. How would you translate it to English?
Johan88
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T04:32:59.663Z
@Johan88  "認主獨一" means "recognize only one single master"
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T04:40:56.587Z
Thanks so much. Yeah, while 神外無神 **implies** 認主獨一, the latter could not serve as a translation of La Ilaha Illallah. But thanks for the info. I never ran into that phrase before.
Johan88
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T04:55:21.817Z
"認主獨一" =  "獨認一主" (only recognize one master), and  "獨認一主" is a grammatically proper sentence
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T06:32:06.417Z
I noticed that 認主獨一 is written at a mosque I went to in Tianjin.
Becky 李蓓
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T08:09:01.200Z
@Johan88  Since it is for an original design, using an existent official translation actually remove the most important creative element -- the 'creative phrasing' . As a graphic designer myself, I would have two choices-- one is follow the existent translation, make it a simple 'font' creating project; another is treat it as an original design and 'create' a new phrase. I would choose option 2
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T04:04:00.647Z
2019-01-11T04:04:00.647Z
Jason Swift
<ul>
<li>萬物非主，唯有真主 is eight characters long (not including the comma) and it's too long.  </li>
<li>You're looking for a four character replacement.</li>
</ul>

<p>Why not just go with:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>唯有真主</p>
</blockquote>

<hr>

<p>Chinese has a nice feature where <strong>elliptical phrases</strong> are many and frequently used. </p>

<p>Take the phrase 泥菩萨过江——自身难保 for instance, where 自身难保 is often dropped - because the intended meaning is known to most. See these excerpts:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>但如今的委內瑞拉也是「泥菩薩過江」</p></li>
<li><p>泡沫黨員便秉持著泥菩薩過江的心態</p></li>
<li><p>他們已經泥菩薩過江了</p></li>
</ul>

<hr>

<p><strong>唯有真主</strong> can also be used in a similar manner.</p>

<p>Even without the beginning of the phrase (萬物非主), the meaning and connotations are still held intact with the ending 唯有真主, even by itself.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T07:29:42.247Z
2019-01-11T07:29:42.247Z
Mou某
<p><code>天外無天</code> or <code>唯一真神</code></p>

<p>you can replace 天 with 神, 真神 with 真主.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T08:27:35.083Z
天外無天 means "there's no world beyond this world" If it is the case, then there can't be any God. And this concept has nothing to do with the original phrase ; 唯一真神 (the only true God) only  describe half of "There is no God but the God"
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T07:54:48.960Z
2019-01-11T08:23:00.530Z
2019-01-11T08:23:00.530Z
tedchupig
<blockquote>
  <p>So is 無神除神 grammatical correct and good as a translation of the Arabic "La Ilaha Illallah" ("There is no God but the God") </p>
</blockquote>

<p>No to both </p>

<p><em>"There is no God but the God" should be "There is no god but <strong>God</strong>"</em></p>

<p>The shortened form of "除了(真)神之外沒有神" should be  "除神沒神". But 除 also mean remove, so "除神沒神" could mean "remove God and there will be no God", Therefore, it is not a clear translation for "There is no god but God"</p>

<p>"神外無神" (Beside God, there's no god) is a better translation </p>

<p><em>"神外無神"  Short for "真<strong>神</strong>之<strong>外</strong>別<strong>無</strong>他<strong>神</strong>" (Beside the one true God, there's no other gods)</em></p>

<p>Seems like there is an existent translation '認主獨一' for  "La Ilaha Illallah" in mainland China.</p>

<p>Since it is for an original design, using an existent official translation actually remove the most important creative element -- the 'creative phrasing' </p>

<p><em>As a graphic designer myself, I would have two choices-- one is follow the existent translation, make it a simple 'font' creating project; another is treat it as an original design and 'create' a new phrase. I would choose option 2</em> </p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T03:47:50.143Z
Omg. *"remove God and there will be no God"*. Thanks ! Big mistake that would've been !
Johan88
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T08:05:08.103Z
"Remove God and there will be no God". Interesting sentence. Might appear in Chinese xianxia stories someday. :D
Widi Widiyanto
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T14:39:29.290Z
Since Chinese language doesn't have capitalization ( We can tell 'The God'  is not 'the gods' in English ), I would either print the first 神 in bolder style or add a tiny 真  within it
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-12T07:26:49.300Z
@TangHo I'm not able to use a different font for any character but I'm not limited to 4 characters either. I wanted it as short as possible but I think I could use 5. Is 真神外無神 correct?
Johan88
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-12T07:41:55.943Z
@Johan88  真神外無神 is weird. .Come to think of it, "認主獨一"  could be explained as 認主(recognize  my lord) (is) 獨一(the one and only).  It is not that bad a translation, just need to read it the right way.
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-12T08:00:30.137Z
@TangHo Need as close to a literal translation of La Ilaha Illallah as possible. Is 神外無神 also weird? Or can I use that by itself without 真?
Johan88
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-12T08:06:15.300Z
@Johan88 神外無神 is not  weird. It is more like a  riddle. -- If no '神' beside '神' , then the answer can only be 'there's only one God'
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-12T09:54:57.580Z
@TangHo thanks. So 神外無神 is the closest I can get to a literal translation I think. Right?
Johan88
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-12T10:13:33.080Z
@Johan88 Yes, In my opinion 神外無神 (beside God, there is no god) is very close to a literal translation of 'There is no god but God' .
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-12T10:16:00.697Z
@TangHo Thank you so much. Too bad you don't give a contact email or website on your profile so people can contact you with private offers/matters. This isn't the only Chinese project I have.
Johan88
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-12T23:06:47.360Z
@Johan88 One idea : replace the top left dot in the character 神  with an * or other symbol, may be a tiny new moon?
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T03:39:53.913Z
2019-01-11T08:22:57.587Z
2019-01-11T08:22:57.587Z
Tang Ho
<p>For a graphic design for a client I want to render the words <strong>"There is no God but the God"</strong> into Chinese <em>in as few characters as possible.</em></p>

<p>It is of course a translation of the Islamic <a href="https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B8%85%E7%9C%9F%E8%A8%80" rel="nofollow noreferrer">"La Ilaha Illallah" ("There is no God but the God")</a> . And whereas Muslims say "万物非主，唯有真主", that's 8 characters long and a huge statement and <em>not easy to fit in my clients design</em>, so I came up with this instead:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>無神除神</p>
</blockquote>

<p><strong>Notes:</strong></p>

<p>I chose <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shen_(Chinese_religion)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">神</a> for "God" despite <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_names_for_the_God_of_Abrahamic_religions" rel="nofollow noreferrer">other names</a> being more commonly used in Abrahamic Religions.</p>

<p>The Arabic word <a href="https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%A5%D9%84%D9%87" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Ilah</a> <em>(root of Ilaha and Illallah in the phrase "La Ilaha Illallah")</em> is <strong>a generic word for God</strong> in Arabic, hence my choice of 神 over other words like 主 or 帝 which are more specific and would be better translations of the Arabic word "Rabb" ("Lord") I'm my opinion.</p>

<p>I know from <a href="https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/27820/what-is-god-in-chinese">this question</a> that 神 is also (if not commonly) used for the Abrahamic God. To quote the answer:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>"Christian prayers (esp the older translations) refer to god as 主 or 神 （I've seen hand-copied Christian prayers that use both）；but 神 also means "spirit" (if you think of "the holy spirit", it makes sense that 神 is used to refer to god). However, unlike 上帝, the character 神 alone doesn't unambiguously mean "god"."</p>
</blockquote>

<p>While 神 "<em>doesn't unambiguously mean "god"</em>" I think, in the context of the phrase "無神除神" it is clear enough.</p>

<p>My reason for choosing 神 came from <a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_gods_and_immortals" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this</a> site, where it is said (under <em>Terminology</em>):</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>In Chinese language there is a terminological distinction between 神 shén, 帝 dì and 仙 xiān. Although the usage of the former two is sometimes blurred, it corresponds to the distinction in Western cultures between "god" and "deity", Latin genius (meaning a generative principle, "spirit") and deus or divus; dì, sometimes translated as "thearch", implies a manifested or incarnate "godly" power.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>So is 無神除神 grammatical correct <em>and good as a translation</em> of the Arabic "La Ilaha Illallah" ("There is no God but the God") for the purpose of my small graphic design?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-01-11T04:32:02.017Z
Well, (1) your translation to English is not correct; it sounds like you're trying to translate Arabic literally to English. In English it should be *There is no **god** but God** (note capitilisation). (2) I highly suggest **not** trying to capture the structure of "La Ilaha Illallah" in translation if you're trying to restrict yourself to 4 characters. The difference between "Ilah" and "Allah" is only captured by the difference between 主 and 真主, as Chinese doesn't have the equivalent to English *The* or Arabic *al-*.
dROOOze
<translation>
無神除神, There is no God but The God
# 無神除神, There is no God but The God

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-01-11)

For a graphic design for a client I want to render the words **"There is no God but the God"** into Chinese *in as few characters as possible.*

It is of course a translation of the Islamic ["La Ilaha Illallah" ("There is no God but the God")](https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E6%B8%85%E7%9C%9F%E8%A8%80) . And whereas Muslims say "万物非主，唯有真主", that's 8 characters long and a huge statement and *not easy to fit in my clients design*, so I came up with this instead:

> 無神除神

**Notes:**

I chose [神](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shen_(Chinese_religion)) for "God" despite [other names](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_names_for_the_God_of_Abrahamic_religions) being more commonly used in Abrahamic Religions.

The Arabic word [Ilah](https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D8%A5%D9%84%D9%87) *(root of Ilaha and Illallah in the phrase "La Ilaha Illallah")* is **a generic word for God** in Arabic, hence my choice of 神 over other words like 主 or 帝 which are more specific and would be better translations of the Arabic word "Rabb" ("Lord") I'm my opinion.

I know from [this question](https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/27820/what-is-god-in-chinese) that 神 is also (if not commonly) used for the Abrahamic God. To quote the answer:

> "Christian prayers (esp the older translations) refer to god as 主 or 神 （I've seen hand-copied Christian prayers that use both）；but 神 also means "spirit" (if you think of "the holy spirit", it makes sense that 神 is used to refer to god). However, unlike 上帝, the character 神 alone doesn't unambiguously mean "god"."

While 神 "*doesn't unambiguously mean "god"*" I think, in the context of the phrase "無神除神" it is clear enough.

My reason for choosing 神 came from [this](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_gods_and_immortals) site, where it is said (under *Terminology*):

> In Chinese language there is a terminological distinction between 神 shén, 帝 dì and 仙 xiān. Although the usage of the former two is sometimes blurred, it corresponds to the distinction in Western cultures between "god" and "deity", Latin genius (meaning a generative principle, "spirit") and deus or divus; dì, sometimes translated as "thearch", implies a manifested or incarnate "godly" power.

So is 無神除神 grammatical correct *and good as a translation* of the Arabic "La Ilaha Illallah" ("There is no God but the God") for the purpose of my small graphic design?

**Tags:** translation

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Well, (1) your translation to English is not correct; it sounds like you're trying to translate Arabic literally to English. In English it should be *There is no **god** but God** (note capitilisation). (2) I highly suggest **not** trying to capture the structure of "La Ilaha Illallah" in translation if you're trying to restrict yourself to 4 characters. The difference between "Ilah" and "Allah" is only captured by the difference between 主 and 真主, as Chinese doesn't have the equivalent to English *The* or Arabic *al-*.  

---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2019-01-11. Score: 7 | Accepted answer

> So is 無神除神 grammatical correct and good as a translation of the Arabic "La Ilaha Illallah" ("There is no God but the God")

No to both

*"There is no God but the God" should be "There is no god but **God**"*

The shortened form of "除了(真)神之外沒有神" should be "除神沒神". But 除 also mean remove, so "除神沒神" could mean "remove God and there will be no God", Therefore, it is not a clear translation for "There is no god but God"

"神外無神" (Beside God, there's no god) is a better translation

*"神外無神" Short for "真**神**之**外**別**無**他**神**" (Beside the one true God, there's no other gods)*

Seems like there is an existent translation '認主獨一' for "La Ilaha Illallah" in mainland China.

Since it is for an original design, using an existent official translation actually remove the most important creative element -- the 'creative phrasing'

*As a graphic designer myself, I would have two choices-- one is follow the existent translation, make it a simple 'font' creating project; another is treat it as an original design and 'create' a new phrase. I would choose option 2*

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Omg. *"remove God and there will be no God"*. Thanks ! Big mistake that would've been !  
> **username_7**: "Remove God and there will be no God". Interesting sentence. Might appear in Chinese xianxia stories someday. :D  
> **username_3**: Since Chinese language doesn't have capitalization ( We can tell 'The God'  is not 'the gods' in English ), I would either print the first 神 in bolder style or add a tiny 真  within it  
> **username_0**: @username_3 I'm not able to use a different font for any character but I'm not limited to 4 characters either. I wanted it as short as possible but I think I could use 5. Is 真神外無神 correct?  
> **username_3**: @username_0  真神外無神 is weird. .Come to think of it, "認主獨一"  could be explained as 認主(recognize  my lord) (is) 獨一(the one and only).  It is not that bad a translation, just need to read it the right way.  
> **username_0**: @username_3 Need as close to a literal translation of La Ilaha Illallah as possible. Is 神外無神 also weird? Or can I use that by itself without 真?  
> **username_3**: @username_0 神外無神 is not  weird. It is more like a  riddle. -- If no '神' beside '神' , then the answer can only be 'there's only one God'  
> **username_0**: @username_3 thanks. So 神外無神 is the closest I can get to a literal translation I think. Right?  
> **username_3**: @username_0 Yes, In my opinion 神外無神 (beside God, there is no god) is very close to a literal translation of 'There is no god but God' .  
> **username_0**: @username_3 Thank you so much. Too bad you don't give a contact email or website on your profile so people can contact you with private offers/matters. This isn't the only Chinese project I have.  
> **username_3**: @username_0 One idea : replace the top left dot in the character 神  with an * or other symbol, may be a tiny new moon?  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2019-01-11. Score: 2

This looks really weird, I can't even guess what 無神除神 means before reading your explanation.

I think the main problem is that, 除, when used alone, usually means *get rid of* rather than *except*. So the whole phrase become 'no god and get rid of god'.

As far as I know, there's already a 4-character phrase with similar meaning 認主獨一. I'm not sure if that fits your need.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Hahaha. The world of Google translate. Thanks so much ! I was not aware of that phrase. How would you translate it to English?  
> **username_3**: @username_0  "認主獨一" means "recognize only one single master"  
> **username_0**: Thanks so much. Yeah, while 神外無神 **implies** 認主獨一, the latter could not serve as a translation of La Ilaha Illallah. But thanks for the info. I never ran into that phrase before.  
> **username_3**: "認主獨一" =  "獨認一主" (only recognize one master), and  "獨認一主" is a grammatically proper sentence  
> **username_4**: I noticed that 認主獨一 is written at a mosque I went to in Tianjin.  
> **username_3**: @username_0  Since it is for an original design, using an existent official translation actually remove the most important creative element -- the 'creative phrasing' . As a graphic designer myself, I would have two choices-- one is follow the existent translation, make it a simple 'font' creating project; another is treat it as an original design and 'create' a new phrase. I would choose option 2  

---

### Answer by username_5 on 2019-01-11. Score: 1

* 萬物非主，唯有真主 is eight characters long (not including the comma) and it's too long.
* You're looking for a four character replacement.

Why not just go with:

> 唯有真主

---

Chinese has a nice feature where **elliptical phrases** are many and frequently used.

Take the phrase 泥菩萨过江——自身难保 for instance, where 自身难保 is often dropped - because the intended meaning is known to most. See these excerpts:

* 但如今的委內瑞拉也是「泥菩薩過江」
* 泡沫黨員便秉持著泥菩薩過江的心態
* 他們已經泥菩薩過江了

---

**唯有真主** can also be used in a similar manner.

Even without the beginning of the phrase (萬物非主), the meaning and connotations are still held intact with the ending 唯有真主, even by itself.


---

### Answer by username_6 on 2019-01-11. Score: 1

`天外無天` or `唯一真神`

you can replace 天 with 神, 真神 with 真主.

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: 天外無天 means "there's no world beyond this world" If it is the case, then there can't be any God. And this concept has nothing to do with the original phrase ; 唯一真神 (the only true God) only  describe half of "There is no God but the God"  

---

