<p>I know this post is oder but still: Many years ago she was mostly spelled &quot;Tsai Ing-Wen&quot;. But later it became &quot;Ing-wen&quot; since its only a syllabification, while &quot;Ing-Wen&quot; looks like a double-barrelled given name (like Jean-Claude).</p>
<ol>
<li>Ing Wen</li>
<li>Ing-Wen</li>
<li>Ing wen</li>
<li>Ing-wen</li>
<li>IngWen</li>
<li>Ingwen</li>
</ol>
<p>In my humble opinion, options 5 and 6 are the best for western people to understand Ingwen is one name. Contrary to all other options, there is no space or hyphen which splits the given name in two parts.</p>
<p>I know 5 (IngWen) isnt a official romanization used by many modern romanizations (they usually use either 4 or 6), but 5 is basically the same as 6 only distinguishes the two syllables without using a hyphen.</p>
<p>Mrs Tsai herself spells her name &quot;Ingwen&quot; in her signature. And Chinese-American actress Ming-Na Wen (in Wiki) spells her name in her signature &quot;MingNa&quot;.</p>
<p>So i would guess the hyphens are only for &quot;formal&quot; writings like Wiki-Articles etc., but the options 5 and 6 are easier to understand for non chinese/korean people. I noticed too many people usually ignore hyphens at all, then Ing-wen or Ing-Wen becomes to Ing wen or Ing Wen, which looks like two seperate names.</p>
<p>Spelling Ingwen or IngWen makes 100% clear it's one name.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-27T01:55:56.810Z
“options 5 and 6 are the best”  you’re kidding lah  using this scheme, the name 嫦娥 would be “change”, 進娥 would be “june”. how can a westerners pronounce it correctly, without confusions?
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-27T12:43:57.077Z
What I want to know is, do Universities in China / Taiwan / Hong Kong award degrees with the surname of the foreign candidate in front? If not, why not?
Wayne Cheah
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-30T14:46:06.280Z
the confusion is: the name “june” of a chinese bearer, do we pronunce it as “may”, “june”, “july”; or “jun + e”? or, “change” is it a strange english name? or pronounce it as “chang + e”. that’s the troublesome of option 5 or 6
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-26T19:08:32.643Z
2023-09-26T19:08:32.643Z
Chris
<p>The only ID you can provide when first going abroad is the passport. When you open a bank account, apply for a driver's license, enroll at a school, etc.,  passport is the only ID you have. So, your name is set according to the name in the passport. If you live in the US long enough, you'll discover that many institutions (hospitals, utility companies) are not so strict on names but on SSN. A utility company may accept Roberta Tsai for Ing-wen Tsai. If Ing-wen Tsai can get a utility company and a bank to accept Roberta Tsai as her name, she might be able to get a driver's license with the name Roberta Tsai.</p>
<p>The name Ing-wen Tsai may appear as IW Tsai, I-W Tsai, Ingwen Tsai, etc. I have seen  formats such as Ing-wen Tsai Tsai and Ing Tsai Wen Tsai. Don't be surprised if Ing-wen Tsai becomes Ing, Wen-Tsai or WT Ing.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-10-26T13:24:00.127Z
Sorry I didn't say it clearly. I modified my question. I would like to know it is Ing-wen Tsai or Ing-Wen Tsai, for some places allow you input lowercase letters.
Bósài
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-10-26T13:30:31.423Z
How “Ing Tsai Wen Tsai” comes out? In the United States, there are three entries in the form: first, middle, last name. So first name “Ing-wen” or “Ing-Wen”, middle name blank, last name “Tsai”, how to get “Ing, Wen-Tsai” (i.e. Wen-Tsai Ing)?
Bósài
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-10-27T08:20:49.743Z
@Bosai I capitalize the second word in the given name but I notice that in the mail I receive they usually are not capitalized. Sometimes, that depends on the hyphen too. When there is no hyphen between the given name, the second word mostly likely is capitalized. Not the case if there is a hyphen between them.
joehua
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-10-27T08:24:59.577Z
@Bosai You have to ask the people who sent the mail. The examples I gave above are from actual mail I have received. I mean the format, not the actual names.
joehua
CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-10-26T03:38:47.080Z
2020-10-26T03:38:47.080Z
joehua
<p>Since i don't have &quot;50 reputation&quot;, i can't write an answere yet. So i have to do it this way:</p>
<p>@ User<br />
水巷孑蠻</p>
<p>You are saying <em>&quot;“options 5 and 6 are the best”  you’re kidding lah  using this scheme, the name 嫦娥 would be “change”, 進娥 would be “june”&quot;</em></p>
<p>My reply: I explained why. Are you saying Tsai, Ing-wen 蔡英文, Ming-Na Wen 溫明娜 and the korean Heung-min Son 손흥민 are wrong in spelling their given names as &quot;Ingwen&quot;, &quot;MingNa&quot; and &quot;HeungMin&quot;?</p>
<p>They are using the options 5 and 6. Even if Wikipedia spells them as:
Tsai Ing-wen
Ming-Na Wen
Son Heung-min</p>
<p>They themselfs write their given names as Ingwen, MingNa and HeungMin. So i guess it cant be that wrong.</p>
<p>Best regards.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-30T14:14:44.057Z
I am not sure about others, but [Tsai's office](https://english.president.gov.tw/Page/40#:~:text=President%20%26%20vice%20president&text=Born%20in%201956%20in%20Taipei,Pingtung%20County%20in%20southern%20Taiwan.) uses Tsai Ing-wen. I think we should respect her own usage.
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-30T20:23:24.083Z
Her office, yes. But she herself spells her own name "Tsai Ingwen", no hyphen, just together, here:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Signature_of_Tsai_Ing-wen.svg/2560px-Signature_of_Tsai_Ing-wen.svg.png

Here the signature of Ming-Na Wen, she spells her name "MingNa Wen" (also no hyphen)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Ming-Na_Wen_signature.svg/2406px-Ming-Na_Wen_signature.svg.png

And here the IG of Son Heung-min. He himself spells his name "HeungMin" there, also no hyphen:

https://www.instagram.com/hm_son7/?hl=de
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T02:01:37.540Z
I myself have had different signatures in different times. I was born and raised in Taiwan. I had no idea what my signature was for. During my youth, I used seal (stamp) all the time. (I am 70 some now)My first English signature was different from the one when I first arrived in the US, I had another one later. I don't think signature needs be exactly the same as  the name in an official document. Do you know where the signature in Wiki is from ?
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T07:30:03.200Z
Another example, I found [Ma Ying-jeou](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Signature_of_Ma_Ying-jeou.svg)'s signature. I don't see the "-" in the signature. Usually, You don't include the dash in your signature. My wife's name has a dash. She never include it in her signature. Signature is not  the evidence of the official name.
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T11:57:31.350Z
I get your point and its more then valid! I have to split this message in multiple, but i go into detail what i mean:
**1: William Kwai Sun Chow-Hoon

2: William Kwai-Sun Chow-Hoon

3: William Kwai sun Chow-Hoon

4: William Kwai-sun Chow-Hoon

5: William Kwaisun Chow-Hoon**

His chinese given name is Kwaisun, Chow-Hoon is a double-barrelled family name. 1 looks like Sun is a middle name. 2 looks like Kwai-Sun is a double-barreled given name like Jean-Claude, or a double-barreled family name like Au-Yueng. 3 isn’t used anywhere.
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T11:58:28.897Z
4 and 5 are recommended by official organisations like Wikipedia, the International Organization for Standardization and the United Nations for all chinese and korean given names to avoid confusions. Wiki usually uses for formal reason’s green 4 (Gil-dong) as headline in an article for korean‘s, but all articles list all transcriptions, and overall 4 is „allowed“ and 5 „recommended“. Means it’s ok to use 4 to distinguis the two syllables one time, but it must not be repeated again and again. One time Gil-dong, then always Gildong.
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T11:59:21.070Z
There's no standard way to phoneticize cantonese-chinese into latin alphabet (Wiki recommends the hyphenated lowercase style, like Jun-fan [Bruce Lee's chinese given name]). 
In mandarin-chinese it's **Pinyin** (i know Taiwan uses Wade-Giles), in korean the **Revised Romanization of Korean**. Both versions spell the given name together as one word without the use of a hyphen or space. 

**This is 1-1 the way how it’s comon in western names, a given name is spelled together as one name, no space, no hyphen.**
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T12:00:07.580Z
We in the west dont need to distinguish the two syllables of generation and personal name, **we only need to identify the given name and family name, that’s the major goal in romanizations.** 

When koreans, chinese, japanese etc. romanize our names from latin alphabet into their language, they also use the methods which are the best for them to understand. And in latin alphabet, a given name is spelled together in one word, not Ching Ying (looks like two names) or Fei-Hung (looks like double-barreled name), but Chingying and Feihung.
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T12:01:30.900Z
Buttom line: If you spell a chinese/korean/taiwanese etc. given name always with a hyphen, like Ing-wen or Jun-fan or what ever, most people in cultures who use latin alphabet think either Ing and Wen or Jun and Fan are two seperate names, or they will think you ALWAYS have to spell that name with a hyphen, Ing-wen.

From from a pure logical standpoint, Ingwen is her given name, and in latin alphabet a given name is NEVER seperated by space or hyphen, but spelled togeter in one word. Its otherwise too fonfusing since we have double-barreled given names, like Jean-Claude or german Hans-Peter.
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T12:01:57.640Z
Please note that the question is about Taiwanese names (Please read the first line of the question). That's why I used the current president and the former president of Taiwan.
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T12:07:08.740Z
I know. In official documents or Wikipeda articles i would also spell her name Ing-wen, or Chiank Kai-shek. But i would mention when romanizing the name 1-1 to latin alphabet (to make it understandable for western people), Ingwen and Kaishek are the best ways to avoid confusions for people who only know the latin alphabet.

Hans and Peter for example are really two seperate names, and Hans-Peter is a double-barreled given name. But Ingwen and Kaishek are single names each but with hyphen they look for standard westerner like double-barreled given names.
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T12:10:31.883Z
A name is a name. It doesn't have to be understood. Tsai Ing-wen likes to call herself that way, and most other Taiwanese also do it. Thus, the question is answered.
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T13:12:47.267Z
"A name is a name. It doesn't have to be understood". Well isnt that the main task for romanizations/transcriptions?


 محمد = Mohammed |


英文 = Ingwen.


So anyone using latin alphabet understands it proberly and without confusions. To spell it Mo-ham-med or so would be strange. But like i said in official documents i go with "Ing-wen".
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T13:27:19.713Z
This is one of the difference between Chinese and Latin languages. Ing and Wen have their meanings. But, when they are used for a given name, they just become names. When her parents gave her the name, they may have their reasons. Actually, her original Chinese name was not 英文. (this is another story). Anyway, the main task for romanizations of names , I believe, is to make it easier for Westerners to pronounce the names, not to understand them.
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T13:31:57.580Z
Tsai(菜) means sloppy or bad (in the way of slang), 英文 means "English". So, there is a  joke that she's got sloppy English. Of course, this is not true. So, try to understand the name could confuse you sometimes.
Nobody
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T16:05:09.367Z
"But, when they are used for a given name, they just become names". See that's the problem, not NAMES but ONE NAME. In chinese and korean names, generation name + personal name = given name. Of course "Ing" and "Wen" have their meanings, but you can be sure wetern people dont know the meanings. And if a westerner reads something like "Chiang Kai Shek, he thinks Kai is a middle name, like John Fitzgerald Kennedy, and thats the problem. To avoid this is the major thing in romanizations.
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T16:09:55.197Z
Compare chinese and korean names with vietnamese. They also consist of three characters usually, but they do have middle names. Take Nguyen Xuan Phuc. His given name is only Phuc, Xuan is a middle name. If you spell a chinese like Huo Yuan Jia, it looks the same. Spelling it Huo Yuanjia (or Yuan-jia) makes clear Yuanjia is one name, his given name. Like i said its imo ok to youse "Ing-wen" (hyphen + lowercase), but the method "Ing Wen" (capizalized and hyphen) should never be used when spelled in latin letters.
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-01T16:24:14.817Z
PS: Sorry for the writing errors, of course i didnt mean "to youse" but "to use" :-D. And so or so in mainland china but also in southkorea, the methods spelling the given name together as one word (as usual in latin alphabet) is recommended, even the United Nations (UN) and the International Organization for Standardization recommends these method for mandarin chinese in general. Wade-Giles (hyphen + lowercase) isnt bad of course, but in general i think Hanyu Pinyin (spell given name togehter in one word) is the less confusing for people who are used to the latin alphabet. Best regards
Chris
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-30T13:45:10.300Z
2023-09-30T13:45:10.300Z
Chris
<p>Using the modern rules of Pinyin the name should be written:</p>
<ul>
<li>Cai Yingwen</li>
</ul>
<p>Capitalization only applies to the first letter in a proper noun. The surname and the personal name are separated:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/chinese_names.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Pinyin.info | 2.3 Personal Names</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Personal names are written with the surname and the given name separated, and with each of the two components capitalized. Remember as you look at the examples below that the surname always comes first.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The hyphen in between the two syllables of the personal name is a remnant from years past and does not fit modern rules of Pinyin.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/chinese_names.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Pinyin.info | 2.3 Personal Names</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>In the past it was common to separate the two syllables of a Han given name in writing by a hyphen, as: Zhōu Ēn-lái. This is not considered standard usage in Hanyu Pinyin. The given name is a single entity and should not be broken up; moreover, use of the hyphen to clarify syllable boundaries is entirely superfluous (see Part 1, 6.3). For these reasons, Hanyu Pinyin does not use the hyphen in this manner.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In either case the second syllable in the name would not be capitalized as it is part of a proper noun and not the beginning of a new one.</p>
<p>Even if you insisted on using the Wade-Giles or Gwoyeu Romatzyh romanization systems, capitalization rules would follow suite only capitalizing the first letter of the surname and the first letter of the given name.</p>
<p>There is, however, a small caveat:</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language_romanization_in_Taiwan#Personal_names" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Chinese language romanization in Taiwan | Personal names</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>Most people in Taiwan romanize their names using a variation of Wade-Giles. This simplified version employs no diacritics (tone marks, apostrophes and umlauts) and, in semi- and unofficial contexts, does not follow the standard capitalization conventions of Wade-Giles. Under Wade-Giles, the first letter in the second character of the given names is generally lower case, but Taiwanese names tend not to follow this practice. For example, Lü Hsiu-lien is often written as Lu Hsiu-Lien. The use of Wade-Giles is generally not out of personal preference but because this system has been used by most government offices' reference materials in Taiwan to date.</p>
<p>There are a few Taiwanese personalities (such as politicians) whose names are in obscure or idiosyncratic schemes. For instance, using any major romanization, former president Lee Teng-hui's surname would have been Li. Former vice-President Vincent Siew's surname is a rare form of Xiao, from Hokkien (also Sio or Siau). The given names of successive presidents Ma Ying-jeou and Tsai Ing-wen are romanized in Gwoyeu Romatzyh. The single closest romanization to Chen Shui-bian's name would be Hanyu Pinyin.</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Wade%E2%80%93Giles" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Wikiwand | Wade–Giles</a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>If a syllable is not the first in a word, its first letter is not capitalized, even if it is part of a proper noun. The use of apostrophe-like characters, hyphens, and capitalization is frequently not observed in place names and personal names. For example, the majority of overseas Taiwanese people write their given names like &quot;Tai Lun&quot; or &quot;Tai-Lun&quot;, whereas the Wade–Giles is actually &quot;Tai-lun&quot;. (See also Chinese names.)</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2020-10-27T09:31:52.013Z
2020-10-27T09:56:19.143Z
2020-10-27T09:56:19.143Z
Mou某
<p>Regarding the Taiwanese names,</p>
<ul>
<li>Many news medias (BBC, CNN) spell as Ing-<strong>w</strong>en (英文) [lowercase w]</li>
<li>The London School of Economics and Political Science spells as Ing-<strong>W</strong>en (英文) [uppercase w]<br />
Cornell university spells as San-<strong>C</strong>heng (善政)</li>
</ul>
<p>Questions:</p>
<ul>
<li>When Taiwanese people live overseas, how banks / schools / public utility companies spell their the first letter after the hyphen in given name? [I know many places spell their full names in all uppercase letters such as ING-WEN TSAI]</li>
<li>If it is spelled as Ing-<strong>w</strong>en Tsai, is the short form I. Tsai or I.-<strong>w.</strong> Tsai?</li>
</ul>
<p><img src="https://cdn.taronews.tw/files/2019/06/62152773_2304256262966217_1001060987257749504_o.jpg" alt="Text" />
<img src="https://uc.udn.com.tw/photo/2020/01/02/1/7277936.jpg" alt="Text" /></p>

<taiwan>
Ing-wen or Ing-Wen
# Ing-wen or Ing-Wen

(Asked by: username_0 on 2020-10-25)

Regarding the Taiwanese names,

* Many news medias (BBC, CNN) spell as Ing-**w**en (英文) [lowercase w]
* The London School of Economics and Political Science spells as Ing-**W**en (英文) [uppercase w]  
  Cornell university spells as San-**C**heng (善政)

Questions:

* When Taiwanese people live overseas, how banks / schools / public utility companies spell their the first letter after the hyphen in given name? [I know many places spell their full names in all uppercase letters such as ING-WEN TSAI]
* If it is spelled as Ing-**w**en Tsai, is the short form I. Tsai or I.-**w.** Tsai?

![Text](https://cdn.taronews.tw/files/2019/06/62152773_2304256262966217_1001060987257749504_o.jpg)
![Text](https://uc.udn.com.tw/photo/2020/01/02/1/7277936.jpg)

**Tags:** taiwan


---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_6 on 2020-10-27. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

Using the modern rules of Pinyin the name should be written:

* Cai Yingwen

Capitalization only applies to the first letter in a proper noun. The surname and the personal name are separated:

[Pinyin.info | 2.3 Personal Names](http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/chinese_names.html)

> Personal names are written with the surname and the given name separated, and with each of the two components capitalized. Remember as you look at the examples below that the surname always comes first.

The hyphen in between the two syllables of the personal name is a remnant from years past and does not fit modern rules of Pinyin.

[Pinyin.info | 2.3 Personal Names](http://www.pinyin.info/readings/texts/chinese_names.html)

> In the past it was common to separate the two syllables of a Han given name in writing by a hyphen, as: Zhōu Ēn-lái. This is not considered standard usage in Hanyu Pinyin. The given name is a single entity and should not be broken up; moreover, use of the hyphen to clarify syllable boundaries is entirely superfluous (see Part 1, 6.3). For these reasons, Hanyu Pinyin does not use the hyphen in this manner.

In either case the second syllable in the name would not be capitalized as it is part of a proper noun and not the beginning of a new one.

Even if you insisted on using the Wade-Giles or Gwoyeu Romatzyh romanization systems, capitalization rules would follow suite only capitalizing the first letter of the surname and the first letter of the given name.

There is, however, a small caveat:

[Chinese language romanization in Taiwan | Personal names](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_language_romanization_in_Taiwan#Personal_names)

> Most people in Taiwan romanize their names using a variation of Wade-Giles. This simplified version employs no diacritics (tone marks, apostrophes and umlauts) and, in semi- and unofficial contexts, does not follow the standard capitalization conventions of Wade-Giles. Under Wade-Giles, the first letter in the second character of the given names is generally lower case, but Taiwanese names tend not to follow this practice. For example, Lü Hsiu-lien is often written as Lu Hsiu-Lien. The use of Wade-Giles is generally not out of personal preference but because this system has been used by most government offices' reference materials in Taiwan to date.
>
> There are a few Taiwanese personalities (such as politicians) whose names are in obscure or idiosyncratic schemes. For instance, using any major romanization, former president Lee Teng-hui's surname would have been Li. Former vice-President Vincent Siew's surname is a rare form of Xiao, from Hokkien (also Sio or Siau). The given names of successive presidents Ma Ying-jeou and Tsai Ing-wen are romanized in Gwoyeu Romatzyh. The single closest romanization to Chen Shui-bian's name would be Hanyu Pinyin.

[Wikiwand | Wade–Giles](https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Wade%E2%80%93Giles)

> If a syllable is not the first in a word, its first letter is not capitalized, even if it is part of a proper noun. The use of apostrophe-like characters, hyphens, and capitalization is frequently not observed in place names and personal names. For example, the majority of overseas Taiwanese people write their given names like "Tai Lun" or "Tai-Lun", whereas the Wade–Giles is actually "Tai-lun". (See also Chinese names.)


---

### Answer by username_1 on 2023-09-26. Score: 0

I know this post is oder but still: Many years ago she was mostly spelled "Tsai Ing-Wen". But later it became "Ing-wen" since its only a syllabification, while "Ing-Wen" looks like a double-barrelled given name (like Jean-Claude).

1. Ing Wen
2. Ing-Wen
3. Ing wen
4. Ing-wen
5. IngWen
6. Ingwen

In my humble opinion, options 5 and 6 are the best for western people to understand Ingwen is one name. Contrary to all other options, there is no space or hyphen which splits the given name in two parts.

I know 5 (IngWen) isnt a official romanization used by many modern romanizations (they usually use either 4 or 6), but 5 is basically the same as 6 only distinguishes the two syllables without using a hyphen.

Mrs Tsai herself spells her name "Ingwen" in her signature. And Chinese-American actress Ming-Na Wen (in Wiki) spells her name in her signature "MingNa".

So i would guess the hyphens are only for "formal" writings like Wiki-Articles etc., but the options 5 and 6 are easier to understand for non chinese/korean people. I noticed too many people usually ignore hyphens at all, then Ing-wen or Ing-Wen becomes to Ing wen or Ing Wen, which looks like two seperate names.

Spelling Ingwen or IngWen makes 100% clear it's one name.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: “options 5 and 6 are the best”  you’re kidding lah  using this scheme, the name 嫦娥 would be “change”, 進娥 would be “june”. how can a westerners pronounce it correctly, without confusions?  
> **username_3**: What I want to know is, do Universities in China / Taiwan / Hong Kong award degrees with the surname of the foreign candidate in front? If not, why not?  
> **username_2**: the confusion is: the name “june” of a chinese bearer, do we pronunce it as “may”, “june”, “july”; or “jun + e”? or, “change” is it a strange english name? or pronounce it as “chang + e”. that’s the troublesome of option 5 or 6  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2020-10-26. Score: 0

The only ID you can provide when first going abroad is the passport. When you open a bank account, apply for a driver's license, enroll at a school, etc., passport is the only ID you have. So, your name is set according to the name in the passport. If you live in the US long enough, you'll discover that many institutions (hospitals, utility companies) are not so strict on names but on SSN. A utility company may accept Roberta Tsai for Ing-wen Tsai. If Ing-wen Tsai can get a utility company and a bank to accept Roberta Tsai as her name, she might be able to get a driver's license with the name Roberta Tsai.

The name Ing-wen Tsai may appear as IW Tsai, I-W Tsai, Ingwen Tsai, etc. I have seen formats such as Ing-wen Tsai Tsai and Ing Tsai Wen Tsai. Don't be surprised if Ing-wen Tsai becomes Ing, Wen-Tsai or WT Ing.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Sorry I didn't say it clearly. I modified my question. I would like to know it is Ing-wen Tsai or Ing-Wen Tsai, for some places allow you input lowercase letters.  
> **username_0**: How “Ing Tsai Wen Tsai” comes out? In the United States, there are three entries in the form: first, middle, last name. So first name “Ing-wen” or “Ing-Wen”, middle name blank, last name “Tsai”, how to get “Ing, Wen-Tsai” (i.e. Wen-Tsai Ing)?  
> **username_4**: @Bosai I capitalize the second word in the given name but I notice that in the mail I receive they usually are not capitalized. Sometimes, that depends on the hyphen too. When there is no hyphen between the given name, the second word mostly likely is capitalized. Not the case if there is a hyphen between them.  
> **username_4**: @Bosai You have to ask the people who sent the mail. The examples I gave above are from actual mail I have received. I mean the format, not the actual names.  

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### Answer by username_1 on 2023-09-30. Score: 0

Since i don't have "50 reputation", i can't write an answere yet. So i have to do it this way:

@ User  
username_2

You are saying *"“options 5 and 6 are the best” you’re kidding lah using this scheme, the name 嫦娥 would be “change”, 進娥 would be “june”"*

My reply: I explained why. Are you saying Tsai, Ing-wen 蔡英文, Ming-Na Wen 溫明娜 and the korean Heung-min Son 손흥민 are wrong in spelling their given names as "Ingwen", "MingNa" and "HeungMin"?

They are using the options 5 and 6. Even if Wikipedia spells them as:
Tsai Ing-wen
Ming-Na Wen
Son Heung-min

They themselfs write their given names as Ingwen, MingNa and HeungMin. So i guess it cant be that wrong.

Best regards.

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: I am not sure about others, but [Tsai's office](https://english.president.gov.tw/Page/40#:~:text=President%20%26%20vice%20president&text=Born%20in%201956%20in%20Taipei,Pingtung%20County%20in%20southern%20Taiwan.) uses Tsai Ing-wen. I think we should respect her own usage.  
> **username_1**: Her office, yes. But she herself spells her own name "Tsai Ingwen", no hyphen, just together, here:  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/43/Signature_of_Tsai_Ing-wen.svg/2560px-Signature_of_Tsai_Ing-wen.svg.png  Here the signature of Ming-Na Wen, she spells her name "MingNa Wen" (also no hyphen)  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/67/Ming-Na_Wen_signature.svg/2406px-Ming-Na_Wen_signature.svg.png  And here the IG of Son Heung-min. He himself spells his name "HeungMin" there, also no hyphen:  https://www.instagram.com/hm_son7/?hl=de  
> **username_5**: I myself have had different signatures in different times. I was born and raised in Taiwan. I had no idea what my signature was for. During my youth, I used seal (stamp) all the time. (I am 70 some now)My first English signature was different from the one when I first arrived in the US, I had another one later. I don't think signature needs be exactly the same as  the name in an official document. Do you know where the signature in Wiki is from ?  
> **username_5**: Another example, I found [Ma Ying-jeou](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Signature_of_Ma_Ying-jeou.svg)'s signature. I don't see the "-" in the signature. Usually, You don't include the dash in your signature. My wife's name has a dash. She never include it in her signature. Signature is not  the evidence of the official name.  
> **username_1**: I get your point and its more then valid! I have to split this message in multiple, but i go into detail what i mean: **1: William Kwai Sun Chow-Hoon  2: William Kwai-Sun Chow-Hoon  3: William Kwai sun Chow-Hoon  4: William Kwai-sun Chow-Hoon  5: William Kwaisun Chow-Hoon**  His chinese given name is Kwaisun, Chow-Hoon is a double-barrelled family name. 1 looks like Sun is a middle name. 2 looks like Kwai-Sun is a double-barreled given name like Jean-Claude, or a double-barreled family name like Au-Yueng. 3 isn’t used anywhere.  
> **username_1**: 4 and 5 are recommended by official organisations like Wikipedia, the International Organization for Standardization and the United Nations for all chinese and korean given names to avoid confusions. Wiki usually uses for formal reason’s green 4 (Gil-dong) as headline in an article for korean‘s, but all articles list all transcriptions, and overall 4 is „allowed“ and 5 „recommended“. Means it’s ok to use 4 to distinguis the two syllables one time, but it must not be repeated again and again. One time Gil-dong, then always Gildong.  
> **username_1**: There's no standard way to phoneticize cantonese-chinese into latin alphabet (Wiki recommends the hyphenated lowercase style, like Jun-fan [Bruce Lee's chinese given name]).  In mandarin-chinese it's **Pinyin** (i know Taiwan uses Wade-Giles), in korean the **Revised Romanization of Korean**. Both versions spell the given name together as one word without the use of a hyphen or space.   **This is 1-1 the way how it’s comon in western names, a given name is spelled together as one name, no space, no hyphen.**  
> **username_1**: We in the west dont need to distinguish the two syllables of generation and personal name, **we only need to identify the given name and family name, that’s the major goal in romanizations.**   When koreans, chinese, japanese etc. romanize our names from latin alphabet into their language, they also use the methods which are the best for them to understand. And in latin alphabet, a given name is spelled together in one word, not Ching Ying (looks like two names) or Fei-Hung (looks like double-barreled name), but Chingying and Feihung.  
> **username_1**: Buttom line: If you spell a chinese/korean/taiwanese etc. given name always with a hyphen, like Ing-wen or Jun-fan or what ever, most people in cultures who use latin alphabet think either Ing and Wen or Jun and Fan are two seperate names, or they will think you ALWAYS have to spell that name with a hyphen, Ing-wen.  From from a pure logical standpoint, Ingwen is her given name, and in latin alphabet a given name is NEVER seperated by space or hyphen, but spelled togeter in one word. Its otherwise too fonfusing since we have double-barreled given names, like Jean-Claude or german Hans-Peter.  
> **username_5**: Please note that the question is about Taiwanese names (Please read the first line of the question). That's why I used the current president and the former president of Taiwan.  
> **username_1**: I know. In official documents or Wikipeda articles i would also spell her name Ing-wen, or Chiank Kai-shek. But i would mention when romanizing the name 1-1 to latin alphabet (to make it understandable for western people), Ingwen and Kaishek are the best ways to avoid confusions for people who only know the latin alphabet.  Hans and Peter for example are really two seperate names, and Hans-Peter is a double-barreled given name. But Ingwen and Kaishek are single names each but with hyphen they look for standard westerner like double-barreled given names.  
> **username_5**: A name is a name. It doesn't have to be understood. Tsai Ing-wen likes to call herself that way, and most other Taiwanese also do it. Thus, the question is answered.  
> **username_1**: "A name is a name. It doesn't have to be understood". Well isnt that the main task for romanizations/transcriptions?    محمد = Mohammed |   英文 = Ingwen.   So anyone using latin alphabet understands it proberly and without confusions. To spell it Mo-ham-med or so would be strange. But like i said in official documents i go with "Ing-wen".  
> **username_5**: This is one of the difference between Chinese and Latin languages. Ing and Wen have their meanings. But, when they are used for a given name, they just become names. When her parents gave her the name, they may have their reasons. Actually, her original Chinese name was not 英文. (this is another story). Anyway, the main task for romanizations of names , I believe, is to make it easier for Westerners to pronounce the names, not to understand them.  
> **username_5**: Tsai(菜) means sloppy or bad (in the way of slang), 英文 means "English". So, there is a  joke that she's got sloppy English. Of course, this is not true. So, try to understand the name could confuse you sometimes.  
> **username_1**: "But, when they are used for a given name, they just become names". See that's the problem, not NAMES but ONE NAME. In chinese and korean names, generation name + personal name = given name. Of course "Ing" and "Wen" have their meanings, but you can be sure wetern people dont know the meanings. And if a westerner reads something like "Chiang Kai Shek, he thinks Kai is a middle name, like John Fitzgerald Kennedy, and thats the problem. To avoid this is the major thing in romanizations.  
> **username_1**: Compare chinese and korean names with vietnamese. They also consist of three characters usually, but they do have middle names. Take Nguyen Xuan Phuc. His given name is only Phuc, Xuan is a middle name. If you spell a chinese like Huo Yuan Jia, it looks the same. Spelling it Huo Yuanjia (or Yuan-jia) makes clear Yuanjia is one name, his given name. Like i said its imo ok to youse "Ing-wen" (hyphen + lowercase), but the method "Ing Wen" (capizalized and hyphen) should never be used when spelled in latin letters.  
> **username_1**: PS: Sorry for the writing errors, of course i didnt mean "to youse" but "to use" :-D. And so or so in mainland china but also in southkorea, the methods spelling the given name together as one word (as usual in latin alphabet) is recommended, even the United Nations (UN) and the International Organization for Standardization recommends these method for mandarin chinese in general. Wade-Giles (hyphen + lowercase) isnt bad of course, but in general i think Hanyu Pinyin (spell given name togehter in one word) is the less confusing for people who are used to the latin alphabet. Best regards  

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