<p>The words "的" for adjectives or "地" for adverbs are optional. e.g. 快速上升 = 快速地上升 (ascend rapidly), 聪明人 = 聪明的人 (clever man). Ancient Chinese didn't have these conjunctions/sometimes used other conjunctions(e.g. 然). You might treat the version without these conjunctions as a bit more formal/written, but that's not always the case. Either version is perfectly understandable/acceptable to people.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-07T11:55:39.647Z
2015-08-07T11:55:39.647Z
xji
<p>Usually, when you have a noun marking the characteristic of another noun, it usually doesn't take 的, since 的 many times expresses possession。Example:</p>

<p>中国 X  茶 Chinese tea (the tea's feature is being Chinese).<br>
中国 的 茶 "Tea of China" (the tea belongs to China, it isn't necessarily Chinese. Maybe it's Japanese tea and China bought a load from them, so now it belongs to China)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-05T12:25:35.437Z
2015-08-05T12:25:35.437Z
Enrico Brasil
<p>You can put '的‘ in between '传统‘ and '音乐‘。 That would not be wrong, but normally (traditionally??) Chinese people just say '传统音乐'。I'm told it sounds strange to say '传统的音乐‘。 Maybe internally it is considered a compound noun made from 2 nouns 'tradition' and 'music', not an adjective-noun construction, but that is just a guess.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-05T08:16:57.610Z
传统音乐 sounds like a proper noun/musical terminology to me, regardless whether it really is.
NS.X.
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-05T13:39:00.027Z
My question is how you can tell the consecutive nouns with 的 from those without 的. Is there any rule or do we have to memorize all the words one by one?
Blaszard
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-05T15:38:41.427Z
传统（名）therefore：实用现代汉语语法４７８页：有些名词作定语时不表示领属关系，而表示人的职业或事物的原料、属性、来源等，属于描写性定语。此类定语与后面的中心语结合的很紧，一般不用＂的＂，甚至不能用＂的＂，而且意义上有一定的熟语性。例如：语文老师－－教语文的老师＊语文的老师，纸箱子－－用纸做的箱子＊纸的箱子，历史问题－－历史上出现过的问题＊历史的问题，纺织工艺－－关于纺织的工艺＊纺织的工艺。有时名词定语后用＂的＂与不用＂的＂表示的语法关系不同，意思也不同。比较：他是我们的班主任老师。（描写性的）他是我们的班主任的老师。（表示领属关系）敌人的狐狸尾巴露出来了。（描写性的）狐狸的尾巴很大。（表示领属关系）。iciba：传统观念、传统剧目、传统看法、传统习惯、传统势力、传统友谊。
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-10-20T03:16:25.457Z
@Blaszard I supposed that without using 的, we are forming compounds, and with 的 we are using words to form phrases. Therefore, whether we use 的 depends on **what vocabulary** Chinese speakers use and **how** they use it, and therefore I think this is a matter to memorize. I think that the *rule* (if any) that governs the choice is very abstract.
HYC
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-05T01:46:52.620Z
2015-08-05T01:46:52.620Z
Pedroski
<blockquote>
  <p>他们正在演奏传统音乐。</p>
</blockquote>

<p>This means they are playing "traditional music" as a type of music, more along the lines of "jazz" or "hip hop" or "baroque".</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>这是一个传统的玩具。</p>
</blockquote>

<p>When expressed this way, the meaning is closer to "a toy which is traditional".  "Traditional" is more emphasized here.  It's not just <em>any</em> toy, it's a 
<em>traditional</em> toy.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-11T23:42:49.447Z
2015-08-11T23:42:49.447Z
ckpwong
<p>他们正在演奏传统的音乐。
这是一个传统玩具。
you can think above is  the same as your example.</p>

<p>because "的" can be omitted.
just remember this reason  and use it  as if idiomatically</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-11-19T13:54:42.417Z
2018-11-19T13:54:42.417Z
ho lu
<p>I have found the following two sentences:</p>

<pre><code>他们正在演奏传统音乐。
这是一个传统的玩具。
</code></pre>

<p>Why does the former not use <code>的</code> but the latter does? I know you can remove <code>的</code> if you express family's relation as stated in <a href="https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/10353/when-to-use-%E4%BB%96%E7%9A%84%E5%A4%AA%E5%A4%AA-and-when-%E4%BB%96%E5%A4%AA%E5%A4%AA">other question</a>, but this is not the case here...</p>

<p>Is there any other rule to remove <code>的</code> in Mandarin?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-04T23:55:17.497Z
see e.g.外国人实用汉语语法，２７１页：３。下列情况用不用＂的＂都可以：定语。。。形容词：双音词修饰双音词 举例：幸福（的）生活 痛苦（的）回忆 （this question must have been asked before)
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-05T02:50:53.723Z
add to comment＃１：实用现代汉语语法，４７９页：有些形容词常与某些名词组合，形成了一个比较稳固的短语，中间常常不用＂的＂。例如：７。关键时刻就要当机立断，坚持原则。８。要把国内外一切积极因素动起来。类似的短语如＂糊涂虫＂、＂老师人＂、＂俏皮话＂、＂正经事＂、＂可怜相＂、＂重大贡献＂、＂先进单位＂、＂伟大胜利＂等。
user6065
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-05T19:22:52.107Z
I remember my teacher thought us 的 can be disregarded in most of the cases as a 定语/形容词; unless it sounds di2(的确).
Meruemu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-05T21:57:16.273Z
@Meruemu What is di2(的确)?
Blaszard
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-05T22:07:18.430Z
in the word `的确` 的sounds  Dí (2 means with the second tone).
Meruemu
<word-choice>
Why not include "的" in "传统音乐"?
# Why not include "的" in "传统音乐"?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2015-08-04)

I have found the following two sentences:

```
他们正在演奏传统音乐。
这是一个传统的玩具。

```

Why does the former not use `的` but the latter does? I know you can remove `的` if you express family's relation as stated in [other question](https://chinese.stackexchange.com/questions/10353/when-to-use-%E4%BB%96%E7%9A%84%E5%A4%AA%E5%A4%AA-and-when-%E4%BB%96%E5%A4%AA%E5%A4%AA), but this is not the case here...

Is there any other rule to remove `的` in Mandarin?

**Tags:** word-choice

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: see e.g.外国人实用汉语语法，２７１页：３。下列情况用不用＂的＂都可以：定语。。。形容词：双音词修饰双音词 举例：幸福（的）生活 痛苦（的）回忆 （this question must have been asked before)  
> **username_1**: add to comment＃１：实用现代汉语语法，４７９页：有些形容词常与某些名词组合，形成了一个比较稳固的短语，中间常常不用＂的＂。例如：７。关键时刻就要当机立断，坚持原则。８。要把国内外一切积极因素动起来。类似的短语如＂糊涂虫＂、＂老师人＂、＂俏皮话＂、＂正经事＂、＂可怜相＂、＂重大贡献＂、＂先进单位＂、＂伟大胜利＂等。  
> **username_2**: I remember my teacher thought us 的 can be disregarded in most of the cases as a 定语/形容词; unless it sounds di2(的确).  
> **username_0**: @username_2 What is di2(的确)?  
> **username_2**: in the word `的确` 的sounds  Dí (2 means with the second tone).  

---

## 5 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2015-08-07. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

The words "的" for adjectives or "地" for adverbs are optional. e.g. 快速上升 = 快速地上升 (ascend rapidly), 聪明人 = 聪明的人 (clever man). Ancient Chinese didn't have these conjunctions/sometimes used other conjunctions(e.g. 然). You might treat the version without these conjunctions as a bit more formal/written, but that's not always the case. Either version is perfectly understandable/acceptable to people.


---

### Answer by username_4 on 2015-08-05. Score: 2

Usually, when you have a noun marking the characteristic of another noun, it usually doesn't take 的, since 的 many times expresses possession。Example:

中国 X 茶 Chinese tea (the tea's feature is being Chinese).  
中国 的 茶 "Tea of China" (the tea belongs to China, it isn't necessarily Chinese. Maybe it's Japanese tea and China bought a load from them, so now it belongs to China)


---

### Answer by username_5 on 2015-08-05. Score: 0

You can put '的‘ in between '传统‘ and '音乐‘。 That would not be wrong, but normally (traditionally??) Chinese people just say '传统音乐'。I'm told it sounds strange to say '传统的音乐‘。 Maybe internally it is considered a compound noun made from 2 nouns 'tradition' and 'music', not an adjective-noun construction, but that is just a guess.

> **Comments:**
> **username_6**: 传统音乐 sounds like a proper noun/musical terminology to me, regardless whether it really is.  
> **username_0**: My question is how you can tell the consecutive nouns with 的 from those without 的. Is there any rule or do we have to memorize all the words one by one?  
> **username_1**: 传统（名）therefore：实用现代汉语语法４７８页：有些名词作定语时不表示领属关系，而表示人的职业或事物的原料、属性、来源等，属于描写性定语。此类定语与后面的中心语结合的很紧，一般不用＂的＂，甚至不能用＂的＂，而且意义上有一定的熟语性。例如：语文老师－－教语文的老师＊语文的老师，纸箱子－－用纸做的箱子＊纸的箱子，历史问题－－历史上出现过的问题＊历史的问题，纺织工艺－－关于纺织的工艺＊纺织的工艺。有时名词定语后用＂的＂与不用＂的＂表示的语法关系不同，意思也不同。比较：他是我们的班主任老师。（描写性的）他是我们的班主任的老师。（表示领属关系）敌人的狐狸尾巴露出来了。（描写性的）狐狸的尾巴很大。（表示领属关系）。iciba：传统观念、传统剧目、传统看法、传统习惯、传统势力、传统友谊。  
> **username_7**: @username_0 I supposed that without using 的, we are forming compounds, and with 的 we are using words to form phrases. Therefore, whether we use 的 depends on **what vocabulary** Chinese speakers use and **how** they use it, and therefore I think this is a matter to memorize. I think that the *rule* (if any) that governs the choice is very abstract.  

---

### Answer by username_8 on 2015-08-11. Score: 0

> 他们正在演奏传统音乐。

This means they are playing "traditional music" as a type of music, more along the lines of "jazz" or "hip hop" or "baroque".

> 这是一个传统的玩具。

When expressed this way, the meaning is closer to "a toy which is traditional". "Traditional" is more emphasized here. It's not just *any* toy, it's a
*traditional* toy.


---

### Answer by username_9 on 2018-11-19. Score: -1

他们正在演奏传统的音乐。
这是一个传统玩具。
you can think above is the same as your example.

because "的" can be omitted.
just remember this reason and use it as if idiomatically


---

