<p>Honestly it reads unnatural to me. Yet the Chinese language has so many varieties, the standard mandarin is so young and the written language had been separated from the oral for so long, the grammatical rules are sometimes determined by the authorities rather than naturally formed by the people who speak it. Thus I cannot say it’s truly ungrammatical for the standard mandarin or the written language.</p>
<p>Appositives are actually present in modern Chinese, no less than average languages. A trivial example is 我们二人. This should be accepted in most Chinese varieties, if not all. (Even 我俩 are appositives, 我 maintain its original first person plural pronoun reference, 俩 contextually refers to the same two persons including the speaker)</p>
<p>Appositives are usually succinct, compact, and syntactically simple, otherwise it could be structurally unclear. The use of 的 in both parts, 党的建设、新的伟大征程, break this pattern. The loose 定中结构 of both parts also contribute to it. For example, 她就是【我的数学老师王老师】, although the second part 王老师 is also 定中结构, it’s much simpler and compact. Native speakers will agree it’s grammatical and natural.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I don’t agree it’s appositives in your examples (though structurally both analyses are compatible, the use of 新的 largely determines my inclination). It’s clearer in this example which you think is structurally similar:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>进行改革开放新的伟大革命</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Linguistically, 新的伟大革命 can be interpreted an appositive of 改革开放, or alternatively 改革开放 locates it. Logically, 改革开放 started in 1978, though I don’t know when exactly your example is quoted from, it’s most likely that 改革开放 is no longer a NEW revolution by then.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>党的建设新的伟大工程</p>
</blockquote>
<p>may cause problem because of the use of two 的. It’s taken from a title so we’d better no say the wordy 党的建设当中的新的伟大工程. But honestly, I can’t come up with better ways to write it than the original quote.</p>
<p>The problem is still the loose structure of 党的建设. If we say 深入推进新时代党建新的伟大工程, then it’s clear. They don’t use it probably on purpose to appear more official. (similar to the use of full names rather than acronyms)</p>
<hr />
<p><strong>UPDATES</strong></p>
<p>As I mentioned in the comments, since cases are not marked, sometimes the same words tolerant different grammatical analyses. So I read through the linked 2017 article to have a context. Interestingly, I think the two examples are actually in different structures.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>我们党深刻认识到，实现中华民族伟大复兴，必须合乎时代潮流、顺应人民意愿，勇于改革开放，让党和人民事业始终充满奋勇前进的强大动力。我们党团结带领人民进行<strong>改革开放新的伟大革命</strong>，破除阻碍国家和民族发展的一切思想和体制障碍，开辟了中国特色社会主义道路，使中国大踏步赶上时代。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The party has lead other revolutions. The current and new one that we are experiencing now is 改革开放. IMO it's appositive in this case.</p>
<blockquote>
<p>实现伟大梦想，必须建设<strong>伟大工程</strong>。<strong>这个伟大工程</strong>就是<strong>我们党正在深入推进的党的建设新的伟大工程</strong>。历史已经并将继续证明，没有中国共产党的领导，民族复兴必然是空想。我们党要始终成为时代先锋、民族脊梁，始终成为马克思主义执政党，自身必须始终过硬。全党要更加自觉地坚定党性原则，勇于直面问题，敢于刮骨疗毒，消除一切损害党的先进性和纯洁性的因素，清除一切侵蚀党的健康肌体的病毒，不断增强党的政治领导力、思想引领力、群众组织力、社会号召力，确保我们党永葆旺盛生命力和强大战斗力。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>In this context, it's clear that 党的建设 modifies 伟大工程. All the sentences coming after describes &quot;new projects&quot; that suit the current time. Hard for me to put it in English, but 党的建设在新时代有了新的内涵. Just like umbrellas on a sunny day and those on a rainy day are different goods, 党的建设 in the old times and in the current times are  different.</p>
<p>In this case, 党的建设当中的新的伟大工程 is not an equivalent expanding, and 党的建设这一新的伟大工程 is also problematic and not equivalent. I start to appreciate the beauty of the writing 党的建设新的伟大工程. I don't see any other option with the same style and under the current grammatical framework. The author is truly an artist of the language. Perhaps we have to leave the potential ambiguity to time for the natural evolution of the language to solve.</p>
<hr />
<p>A long 定语 possibly with the help of 的 is a relatively new feature of Chinese, heavily <em>influenced</em> (not caused) by Mongolian. But Mongolian has strict case marking, direct migration of long 定语 doesn’t work well in Chinese. IMO, Chinese languages are still finding the most suitable way, in which process linguistically patterns  like this are not widely recognized.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-12-07T00:46:28.953Z
Thanks for your helpful exposition. The reason why I thought it was an appositive structure has been clarified with new sources in an update to the original post.
magni
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-12-07T01:06:43.170Z
@magni Good point. Since cases are not marked, sometimes the same words tolerant different grammatical analyses. In the 1939 quote, I agree it originates the appositive interpretation. I also agree that even in current writings like 推进的党的建设伟大工程 it's still appositive. But after inserting 新的, I'm inclined to the other reading. Grammatically both analyses are possible yet imperfect. So the context decides my inclination. Those being said, it's a pure linguistic view. I've never studied in the party school so not sure what the party intends it to mean politically.
lilysirius
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-12-07T01:25:16.683Z
@magni I have some new views given the specific contexts of the 2017 quotes. See my updates.
lilysirius
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-12-07T01:52:52.547Z
Yes, that's more or less what I had in mind when I initially pondered upon this structure, that the current formulation was the only feasible way to verbalize the concept without comprising any part of its meaning. I felt that it was delicate and deliberate, and takes potentially a well-developed grammatical framework to explain it in a more detailed manner, and that it is a uniquely Chinese way of saying it. Thanks again, and I think we need a dedicated, modern, authoritative (?) Chinese grammar.
magni
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-12-05T23:28:58.180Z
2022-12-07T01:34:50.053Z
2022-12-07T01:34:50.053Z
lilysirius
<p>In Chinese so-called verbs, without any orthographical changes, just like  <em>walk</em> and <em>talk</em>, may be used as nouns. Chinese linguists call this 名动包含。</p>
<p>毫无进展<br />
no progress</p>
<p>文明的进展<br />
the progress of civilisation</p>
<p>So, if you will accept that 进展 is a noun, here are some easy to find appositions of two nouns.</p>
<p>加的夫湾工程<br />
Cardiff Bay project</p>
<p>讨论工程进展情况<br />
discuss the progress of the project</p>
<p>As to the party pronouncement, what do you dislike about it?</p>
<blockquote>
<p>Robert Zimmermann (aka Bob Dylan)</p>
<p>We always did feel the same<br />
We just saw it from a different point<br />
Of view<br />
Tangled up in blue</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-12-05T00:36:28.460Z
2022-12-05T00:36:28.460Z
Pedroski
<p>This sentence consists of 3 short phrases (if match the full context):</p>
<p>深入推进新时代_党的建设_新的伟大工程。= 深入推进<strong>一個</strong>新时代, <strong>一個</strong>党的建设, <strong>一個</strong>新的伟大工程。</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-12-04T16:36:18.193Z
2022-12-04T16:36:18.193Z
r13
<p>I'm Chinese and I can't understand</p>
<blockquote>
<p>深入推进新时代党的建设<strong>新的伟大工程</strong>。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>which parses into something like</p>
<blockquote>
<p>党的建设，这一新的伟大工程 / 党的建设，这项新的伟大工程</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The reason I think it should parse so is that that was how its <a href="https://weiyinfu.cn/MaoZeDongAnthology/037-%E3%80%8A%E5%85%B1%E4%BA%A7%E5%85%9A%E4%BA%BA%E3%80%8B%E5%8F%91%E5%88%8A%E8%AF%8D.html#:%7E:text=%E5%B7%B2%E7%BB%8F%E5%A4%A7%E4%BD%93%E5%85%B7%E5%A4%87%EF%BC%8C-,%E8%BF%99%E4%BB%B6%E4%BC%9F%E5%A4%A7%E7%9A%84%E5%B7%A5%E7%A8%8B%E4%B9%9F%E6%AD%A3%E5%9C%A8%E8%BF%9B%E8%A1%8C%E4%B9%8B%E4%B8%AD,-%E3%80%82%E5%B8%AE%E5%8A%A9%E8%BF%9B%E8%A1%8C%E8%BF%99" rel="nofollow noreferrer">origin in 1939</a> (claimed by Reference [1]) formulated:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>为了中国革命的胜利，迫切地需要<strong>建设这样一个党</strong>，建设这样一个党的主观客观条件也已经大体具备，<strong>这件伟大的工程</strong>也正在进行之中。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>That's different from how similar structures would parse, e.g.:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>中国生命科学研究<strong>新突破</strong>（=中国生命科学研究中的新突破, and not 中国生命科学研究，这一新突破）<br>生命科学<strong>七大领域</strong>（=生命科学中的七大领域, and not 生命科学，这七大领域）</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The new version of this phrase, with a 新的 in between, traces its gestation back in <a href="https://fuwu.12371.cn/2012/09/26/ARTI1348643285329316.shtml#:%7E:text=%E7%BB%A7%E7%BB%AD%E8%BF%9B%E8%A1%8C%E7%9A%84-,%E6%96%B0%E7%9A%84%E4%BC%9F%E5%A4%A7%E7%9A%84%E5%B7%A5%E7%A8%8B,-%E3%80%82" rel="nofollow noreferrer">1994</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>[...] 把党建设成为用建设有中国特色社会主义理论武装起来、[...] 的马克思主义政党，这是 [...] <strong>新的伟大的工程</strong>。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>and cemented into the fixed 10-character compound it is now, after <a href="http://www.gov.cn/zhuanti/2017-10/27/content_5234876.htm#:%7E:text=%E8%BF%99%E4%B8%AA%E4%BC%9F%E5%A4%A7%E5%B7%A5%E7%A8%8B%E5%B0%B1%E6%98%AF%E6%88%91%E4%BB%AC%E5%85%9A%E6%AD%A3%E5%9C%A8%E6%B7%B1%E5%85%A5%E6%8E%A8%E8%BF%9B%E7%9A%84%E5%85%9A%E7%9A%84%E5%BB%BA%E8%AE%BE%E6%96%B0%E7%9A%84%E4%BC%9F%E5%A4%A7%E5%B7%A5%E7%A8%8B%E3%80%82" rel="nofollow noreferrer">2017</a>:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>这个伟大工程就是我们党正在深入推进的党的建设<strong>新的伟大工程</strong>。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The case of 改革开放新的伟大革命 is similar (also from the same reference above in 2017):</p>
<blockquote>
<p>进行改革开放<strong>新的伟大革命</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>In English there are appositives:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>the singer-songwriter <strong>Bob Dylan</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>and name suffixes:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>King Charles <strong>III</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p>But is this kind of stuff also valid in Chinese? Nothing seems to come close; I don't think there's anything like appositives in modern Chinese.</p>
<hr />
<p>References</p>
<p>[1]黄宪起.新时代党的建设新的伟大工程的历史由来[J].人民论坛·学术前沿,2022,(03):14-23.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-12-04T16:49:18.753Z
Same as my comment on another topic: why do you even bother about those party slogans? ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Weishan Yang
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-12-04T23:43:33.703Z
@WeishanYang I just wonder if there are grammatical rules hidden, unknown to me, which happen to be used by them.
magni
<syntax>
What is 新的伟大... in 党的建设新的伟大工程 and 改革开放新的伟大革命?
# What is 新的伟大... in 党的建设新的伟大工程 and 改革开放新的伟大革命?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2022-12-04)

I'm Chinese and I can't understand

> 深入推进新时代党的建设**新的伟大工程**。

which parses into something like

> 党的建设，这一新的伟大工程 / 党的建设，这项新的伟大工程

The reason I think it should parse so is that that was how its [origin in 1939](https://weiyinfu.cn/MaoZeDongAnthology/037-%E3%80%8A%E5%85%B1%E4%BA%A7%E5%85%9A%E4%BA%BA%E3%80%8B%E5%8F%91%E5%88%8A%E8%AF%8D.html#:%7E:text=%E5%B7%B2%E7%BB%8F%E5%A4%A7%E4%BD%93%E5%85%B7%E5%A4%87%EF%BC%8C-,%E8%BF%99%E4%BB%B6%E4%BC%9F%E5%A4%A7%E7%9A%84%E5%B7%A5%E7%A8%8B%E4%B9%9F%E6%AD%A3%E5%9C%A8%E8%BF%9B%E8%A1%8C%E4%B9%8B%E4%B8%AD,-%E3%80%82%E5%B8%AE%E5%8A%A9%E8%BF%9B%E8%A1%8C%E8%BF%99) (claimed by Reference [1]) formulated:

> 为了中国革命的胜利，迫切地需要**建设这样一个党**，建设这样一个党的主观客观条件也已经大体具备，**这件伟大的工程**也正在进行之中。

That's different from how similar structures would parse, e.g.:

> 中国生命科学研究**新突破**（=中国生命科学研究中的新突破, and not 中国生命科学研究，这一新突破）  
> 生命科学**七大领域**（=生命科学中的七大领域, and not 生命科学，这七大领域）

The new version of this phrase, with a 新的 in between, traces its gestation back in [1994](https://fuwu.12371.cn/2012/09/26/ARTI1348643285329316.shtml#:%7E:text=%E7%BB%A7%E7%BB%AD%E8%BF%9B%E8%A1%8C%E7%9A%84-,%E6%96%B0%E7%9A%84%E4%BC%9F%E5%A4%A7%E7%9A%84%E5%B7%A5%E7%A8%8B,-%E3%80%82):

> [...] 把党建设成为用建设有中国特色社会主义理论武装起来、[...] 的马克思主义政党，这是 [...] **新的伟大的工程**。

and cemented into the fixed 10-character compound it is now, after [2017](http://www.gov.cn/zhuanti/2017-10/27/content_5234876.htm#:%7E:text=%E8%BF%99%E4%B8%AA%E4%BC%9F%E5%A4%A7%E5%B7%A5%E7%A8%8B%E5%B0%B1%E6%98%AF%E6%88%91%E4%BB%AC%E5%85%9A%E6%AD%A3%E5%9C%A8%E6%B7%B1%E5%85%A5%E6%8E%A8%E8%BF%9B%E7%9A%84%E5%85%9A%E7%9A%84%E5%BB%BA%E8%AE%BE%E6%96%B0%E7%9A%84%E4%BC%9F%E5%A4%A7%E5%B7%A5%E7%A8%8B%E3%80%82):

> 这个伟大工程就是我们党正在深入推进的党的建设**新的伟大工程**。

The case of 改革开放新的伟大革命 is similar (also from the same reference above in 2017):

> 进行改革开放**新的伟大革命**

In English there are appositives:

> the singer-songwriter **Bob Dylan**

and name suffixes:

> King Charles **III**

But is this kind of stuff also valid in Chinese? Nothing seems to come close; I don't think there's anything like appositives in modern Chinese.

---

References

[1]黄宪起.新时代党的建设新的伟大工程的历史由来[J].人民论坛·学术前沿,2022,(03):14-23.

**Tags:** syntax

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Same as my comment on another topic: why do you even bother about those party slogans? ¯_(ツ)_/¯  
> **username_0**: @username_1 I just wonder if there are grammatical rules hidden, unknown to me, which happen to be used by them.  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2022-12-05. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

Honestly it reads unnatural to me. Yet the Chinese language has so many varieties, the standard mandarin is so young and the written language had been separated from the oral for so long, the grammatical rules are sometimes determined by the authorities rather than naturally formed by the people who speak it. Thus I cannot say it’s truly ungrammatical for the standard mandarin or the written language.

Appositives are actually present in modern Chinese, no less than average languages. A trivial example is 我们二人. This should be accepted in most Chinese varieties, if not all. (Even 我俩 are appositives, 我 maintain its original first person plural pronoun reference, 俩 contextually refers to the same two persons including the speaker)

Appositives are usually succinct, compact, and syntactically simple, otherwise it could be structurally unclear. The use of 的 in both parts, 党的建设、新的伟大征程, break this pattern. The loose 定中结构 of both parts also contribute to it. For example, 她就是【我的数学老师王老师】, although the second part 王老师 is also 定中结构, it’s much simpler and compact. Native speakers will agree it’s grammatical and natural.

On the other hand, I don’t agree it’s appositives in your examples (though structurally both analyses are compatible, the use of 新的 largely determines my inclination). It’s clearer in this example which you think is structurally similar:

> 进行改革开放新的伟大革命

Linguistically, 新的伟大革命 can be interpreted an appositive of 改革开放, or alternatively 改革开放 locates it. Logically, 改革开放 started in 1978, though I don’t know when exactly your example is quoted from, it’s most likely that 改革开放 is no longer a NEW revolution by then.

> 党的建设新的伟大工程

may cause problem because of the use of two 的. It’s taken from a title so we’d better no say the wordy 党的建设当中的新的伟大工程. But honestly, I can’t come up with better ways to write it than the original quote.

The problem is still the loose structure of 党的建设. If we say 深入推进新时代党建新的伟大工程, then it’s clear. They don’t use it probably on purpose to appear more official. (similar to the use of full names rather than acronyms)

---

**UPDATES**

As I mentioned in the comments, since cases are not marked, sometimes the same words tolerant different grammatical analyses. So I read through the linked 2017 article to have a context. Interestingly, I think the two examples are actually in different structures.

> 我们党深刻认识到，实现中华民族伟大复兴，必须合乎时代潮流、顺应人民意愿，勇于改革开放，让党和人民事业始终充满奋勇前进的强大动力。我们党团结带领人民进行**改革开放新的伟大革命**，破除阻碍国家和民族发展的一切思想和体制障碍，开辟了中国特色社会主义道路，使中国大踏步赶上时代。

The party has lead other revolutions. The current and new one that we are experiencing now is 改革开放. IMO it's appositive in this case.

> 实现伟大梦想，必须建设**伟大工程**。**这个伟大工程**就是**我们党正在深入推进的党的建设新的伟大工程**。历史已经并将继续证明，没有中国共产党的领导，民族复兴必然是空想。我们党要始终成为时代先锋、民族脊梁，始终成为马克思主义执政党，自身必须始终过硬。全党要更加自觉地坚定党性原则，勇于直面问题，敢于刮骨疗毒，消除一切损害党的先进性和纯洁性的因素，清除一切侵蚀党的健康肌体的病毒，不断增强党的政治领导力、思想引领力、群众组织力、社会号召力，确保我们党永葆旺盛生命力和强大战斗力。

In this context, it's clear that 党的建设 modifies 伟大工程. All the sentences coming after describes "new projects" that suit the current time. Hard for me to put it in English, but 党的建设在新时代有了新的内涵. Just like umbrellas on a sunny day and those on a rainy day are different goods, 党的建设 in the old times and in the current times are different.

In this case, 党的建设当中的新的伟大工程 is not an equivalent expanding, and 党的建设这一新的伟大工程 is also problematic and not equivalent. I start to appreciate the beauty of the writing 党的建设新的伟大工程. I don't see any other option with the same style and under the current grammatical framework. The author is truly an artist of the language. Perhaps we have to leave the potential ambiguity to time for the natural evolution of the language to solve.

---

A long 定语 possibly with the help of 的 is a relatively new feature of Chinese, heavily *influenced* (not caused) by Mongolian. But Mongolian has strict case marking, direct migration of long 定语 doesn’t work well in Chinese. IMO, Chinese languages are still finding the most suitable way, in which process linguistically patterns like this are not widely recognized.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks for your helpful exposition. The reason why I thought it was an appositive structure has been clarified with new sources in an update to the original post.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 Good point. Since cases are not marked, sometimes the same words tolerant different grammatical analyses. In the 1939 quote, I agree it originates the appositive interpretation. I also agree that even in current writings like 推进的党的建设伟大工程 it's still appositive. But after inserting 新的, I'm inclined to the other reading. Grammatically both analyses are possible yet imperfect. So the context decides my inclination. Those being said, it's a pure linguistic view. I've never studied in the party school so not sure what the party intends it to mean politically.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 I have some new views given the specific contexts of the 2017 quotes. See my updates.  
> **username_0**: Yes, that's more or less what I had in mind when I initially pondered upon this structure, that the current formulation was the only feasible way to verbalize the concept without comprising any part of its meaning. I felt that it was delicate and deliberate, and takes potentially a well-developed grammatical framework to explain it in a more detailed manner, and that it is a uniquely Chinese way of saying it. Thanks again, and I think we need a dedicated, modern, authoritative (?) Chinese grammar.  

---

### Answer by username_3 on 2022-12-05. Score: 0

In Chinese so-called verbs, without any orthographical changes, just like *walk* and *talk*, may be used as nouns. Chinese linguists call this 名动包含。

毫无进展  
no progress

文明的进展  
the progress of civilisation

So, if you will accept that 进展 is a noun, here are some easy to find appositions of two nouns.

加的夫湾工程  
Cardiff Bay project

讨论工程进展情况  
discuss the progress of the project

As to the party pronouncement, what do you dislike about it?

> Robert Zimmermann (aka Bob Dylan)
>
> We always did feel the same  
> We just saw it from a different point  
> Of view  
> Tangled up in blue


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### Answer by username_4 on 2022-12-04. Score: -1

This sentence consists of 3 short phrases (if match the full context):

深入推进新时代\_党的建设\_新的伟大工程。= 深入推进**一個**新时代, **一個**党的建设, **一個**新的伟大工程。


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