<blockquote>
<p>Is the original form 禄, 録, or 剥?</p>
</blockquote>
<p>None of these - and I'm afraid that the <em>chaziwang</em>'s description of glyph origins also doesn't look correct.</p>
<p>You have a minor interpretation issue in the question. The link actually says that 「彔」 is the original form of 「淥」 (<em>to strain liquids</em>), while it uses the character 「彔」 as a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classification#Rebus_(phonetic_loan)_characters" rel="nofollow noreferrer">phonetic loan</a> for 「祿」, not that 「彔」 <em>becomes</em> 「祿」.</p>
<p>The phonetic loan for 「祿」 explanation is plausible, while 「彔」 being the original form of 「淥」 is not supported in a graphical sense; oracle bones or <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Shāng</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_bronze_inscriptions" rel="nofollow noreferrer">bronzes</a> did not have a component which is described as a <em>bag</em> that looked like the top of 「彔」.</p>
<hr />
<div class="s-table-container">
<table class="s-table">
<thead>
<tr>
<th style="text-align: center;">時期<br>字體</th>
<th style="text-align: center;">字形</th>
<th style="text-align: center;">參考資料</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty" rel="nofollow noreferrer">商</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone_script" rel="nofollow noreferrer">甲</a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/GXltv.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/GXltv.png" alt="彔" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/jiaguwen/Reference/Reference" rel="nofollow noreferrer">甲</a>598<br><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&amp;bh=28800&amp;jgwfl=" rel="nofollow noreferrer">合集28800</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Zhou" rel="nofollow noreferrer">西周</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_bronze_inscriptions" rel="nofollow noreferrer">金</a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/vMYYL.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/vMYYL.png" alt="彔" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">彔伯簋蓋<br><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=4302&amp;jgwfl=" rel="nofollow noreferrer">集成4302</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_and_Autumn_period" rel="nofollow noreferrer">春秋</a><br>金<br></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/58lnt.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/58lnt.png" alt="彔" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">□弔多父盤<br>總8.4786</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period" rel="nofollow noreferrer">戰國</a>・<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_(state)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">楚</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_and_wooden_slips" rel="nofollow noreferrer">簡</a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/2vu2M.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/2vu2M.png" alt="彔" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">28<br>曾侯乙墓簡</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;">戰國・楚<br>簡</td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/iPmls.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/iPmls.png" alt="彔" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">145反<br>包山竹簡</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;">戰國・楚<br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">璽印</a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/FMZEz.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/FMZEz.png" alt="彔" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">214<br>古璽彙編</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>Shape A</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;">戰國・楚<br>簡</td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/kdfrM.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/kdfrM.png" alt="彔" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">魯穆公問7<br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guodian_Chu_Slips" rel="nofollow noreferrer">郭店楚簡</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_seal_script" rel="nofollow noreferrer">篆</a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/9n18E.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/9n18E.png" alt="彔" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&amp;file=77390&amp;page=106" rel="nofollow noreferrer">彔部</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuowen_Jiezi" rel="nofollow noreferrer">說文解字</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_script" rel="nofollow noreferrer">楷</a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/6ijn9.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/6ijn9.png" alt="彔" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><strong>Shape B</strong></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty#Eastern_Han" rel="nofollow noreferrer">東漢</a><br>銅鏡銘文</td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/Vo7bh.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/Vo7bh.png" alt="录" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">吾作鏡</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><br>楷</td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/BMNOF.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/BMNOF.png" alt="录" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
<p><kbd><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/GXltv.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/GXltv.png" alt="彔" /></a><br>　</kbd></p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/NQ79F.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/NQ79F.png" alt="Well-pulley with a container used for drawing water" /></a></p>
<p>「彔」 originally depicted a <em>well-pulley with a container used for drawing water</em>. The small dots around the bottom of the character represent drops of water, equivalent to 「氵」. The word that 「彔」 originally represented is now written as 「轆轤」 (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructions_of_Old_Chinese#Zhengzhang_(1981%E2%80%931995)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Zhengzhang OC</a>: /<strong>*roːɡ raː</strong>/). The meaning <em>to carve wood</em> for 「彔」 (<strong>/*b·roːɡ/</strong>) is a phonetic loan.</p>
<p><kbd><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/vMYYL.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/vMYYL.png" alt="彔" /></a><br>　</kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/58lnt.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/58lnt.png" alt="彔" /></a><br>　</kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/2vu2M.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/2vu2M.png" alt="彔" /></a><br>　</kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/iPmls.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/iPmls.png" alt="彔" /></a><br>　</kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/FMZEz.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/FMZEz.png" alt="彔" /></a><br>　</kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/kdfrM.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/kdfrM.png" alt="彔" /></a><br>　</kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/9n18E.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/9n18E.png" alt="彔" /></a><br>　</kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/6ijn9.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/6ijn9.png" alt="彔" /></a><br>　</kbd></p>
<p>Later on, the well-pulley shape suffered egregious graphical corruption, eventually becoming the shape of 「彑」, while the drops of water turned into 「水・氺」.</p>
<hr />
<p><strong>References:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">漢語多功能字庫</a></li>
<li>季旭昇《說文新證》</li>
<li><a href="https://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian" rel="nofollow noreferrer">小學堂字形演變</a></li>
<li><a href="https://ctext.org/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">中國哲學書電子化計劃</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&amp;res=77351" rel="nofollow noreferrer">宋・徐鉉等奉敕校定　漢・許慎《說文解字》</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">國學大師</a>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">郭沫若《甲骨文合集》</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">中國社會科學院考古研究所《殷周金文集成》</a></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-02-16T16:03:18.743Z
Thanks for the quick explanation. A bucket from a well makes a lot more sense than a bag.
Fishuman
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-02-16T10:58:54.603Z
2021-02-16T11:25:13.290Z
2021-02-16T11:25:13.290Z
dROOOze
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/urXFm.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/urXFm.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p>Did 录 or 彔 look like some wooden object being carved? Was it originally a knife chipping something which became 録 as in recording events on a wooden object? It also seems to resemble a knife stripping and peeling away outer wooden layers like in 剥 (which btw does not sound anything like 录!).</p>
<p>However, I've seen sources like in <a href="http://qiyuan.chaziwang.com/etymology-3605.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://qiyuan.chaziwang.com/etymology-3605.html</a> say that it's a bag with water dripping below and ultimately became 禄, though I'm not even sure how does a dripping bag end up meaning as blessing. What is the story behind this character?</p>

<etymology><glyph-origin>
Glyph origin of 录. Is the original form 禄, 録, or 剥?
# Glyph origin of 录. Is the original form 禄, 録, or 剥?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2021-02-16)

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/urXFm.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/urXFm.png)

Did 录 or 彔 look like some wooden object being carved? Was it originally a knife chipping something which became 録 as in recording events on a wooden object? It also seems to resemble a knife stripping and peeling away outer wooden layers like in 剥 (which btw does not sound anything like 录!).

However, I've seen sources like in <http://qiyuan.chaziwang.com/etymology-3605.html> say that it's a bag with water dripping below and ultimately became 禄, though I'm not even sure how does a dripping bag end up meaning as blessing. What is the story behind this character?

**Tags:** etymology, glyph-origin


---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2021-02-16. Score: 5 | Accepted answer

> Is the original form 禄, 録, or 剥?

None of these - and I'm afraid that the *chaziwang*'s description of glyph origins also doesn't look correct.

You have a minor interpretation issue in the question. The link actually says that 「彔」 is the original form of 「淥」 (*to strain liquids*), while it uses the character 「彔」 as a [phonetic loan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classification#Rebus_(phonetic_loan)_characters) for 「祿」, not that 「彔」 *becomes* 「祿」.

The phonetic loan for 「祿」 explanation is plausible, while 「彔」 being the original form of 「淥」 is not supported in a graphical sense; oracle bones or [Shāng](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty) [bronzes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_bronze_inscriptions) did not have a component which is described as a *bag* that looked like the top of 「彔」.

---

| 時期 字體 | 字形 | 參考資料 |
| --- | --- | --- |
| [商](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty) [甲](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone_script) | [彔](https://i.sstatic.net/GXltv.png) | [甲](https://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/jiaguwen/Reference/Reference)598 [合集28800](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&bh=28800&jgwfl=) |
| [西周](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Zhou) [金](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_bronze_inscriptions) | [彔](https://i.sstatic.net/vMYYL.png) | 彔伯簋蓋 [集成4302](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=4302&jgwfl=) |
| [春秋](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_and_Autumn_period) 金 | [彔](https://i.sstatic.net/58lnt.png) | □弔多父盤 總8.4786 |
| [戰國](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period)・[楚](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_(state)) [簡](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_and_wooden_slips) | [彔](https://i.sstatic.net/2vu2M.png) | 28 曾侯乙墓簡 |
| 戰國・楚 簡 | [彔](https://i.sstatic.net/iPmls.png) | 145反 包山竹簡 |
| 戰國・楚 [璽印](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia)) | [彔](https://i.sstatic.net/FMZEz.png) | 214 古璽彙編 |
|  | **Shape A** |  |
| 戰國・楚 簡 | [彔](https://i.sstatic.net/kdfrM.png) | 魯穆公問7 [郭店楚簡](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guodian_Chu_Slips) |
| [篆](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_seal_script) | [彔](https://i.sstatic.net/9n18E.png) | [彔部](https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&file=77390&page=106) [說文解字](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuowen_Jiezi) |
| [楷](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regular_script) | [彔](https://i.sstatic.net/6ijn9.png) |  |
|  | **Shape B** |  |
| [東漢](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_dynasty#Eastern_Han) 銅鏡銘文 | [录](https://i.sstatic.net/Vo7bh.png) | 吾作鏡 |
| 楷 | [录](https://i.sstatic.net/BMNOF.png) |  |

`![彔](https://i.sstatic.net/GXltv.png)`

[![Well-pulley with a container used for drawing water](https://i.sstatic.net/NQ79F.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/NQ79F.png)

「彔」 originally depicted a *well-pulley with a container used for drawing water*. The small dots around the bottom of the character represent drops of water, equivalent to 「氵」. The word that 「彔」 originally represented is now written as 「轆轤」 ([Zhengzhang OC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructions_of_Old_Chinese#Zhengzhang_(1981%E2%80%931995)): /**\*roːɡ raː**/). The meaning *to carve wood* for 「彔」 (**/\*b·roːɡ/**) is a phonetic loan.

`![彔](https://i.sstatic.net/vMYYL.png)` `![彔](https://i.sstatic.net/58lnt.png)` `![彔](https://i.sstatic.net/2vu2M.png)` `![彔](https://i.sstatic.net/iPmls.png)` `![彔](https://i.sstatic.net/FMZEz.png)` `![彔](https://i.sstatic.net/kdfrM.png)` `![彔](https://i.sstatic.net/9n18E.png)` `![彔](https://i.sstatic.net/6ijn9.png)`

Later on, the well-pulley shape suffered egregious graphical corruption, eventually becoming the shape of 「彑」, while the drops of water turned into 「水・氺」.

---

**References:**

* [漢語多功能字庫](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/)
* 季旭昇《說文新證》
* [小學堂字形演變](https://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian)
* [中國哲學書電子化計劃](https://ctext.org/)
  + [宋・徐鉉等奉敕校定　漢・許慎《說文解字》](https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&res=77351)
* [國學大師](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/)
  + [郭沫若《甲骨文合集》](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/)
  + [中國社會科學院考古研究所《殷周金文集成》](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks for the quick explanation. A bucket from a well makes a lot more sense than a bag.  

---

