<p><kbd><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty" rel="nofollow noreferrer">商</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone_script" rel="nofollow noreferrer">甲</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/KrQK4.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/KrQK4.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br><a href="http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference" rel="nofollow noreferrer">鐵</a>178.2<br><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&amp;bh=11606&amp;jgwfl=" rel="nofollow noreferrer">合集11606</a></kbd><kbd><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Zhou" rel="nofollow noreferrer">西周</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_bronze_inscriptions" rel="nofollow noreferrer">金</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/aQFkm.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/aQFkm.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br>沈子它簋蓋<br><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/?bh=4330&amp;jgwfl=" rel="nofollow noreferrer">集成4330</a></kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_seal_script" rel="nofollow noreferrer">篆</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/FWJuV.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/FWJuV.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br><a href="https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&amp;file=77390&amp;page=3" rel="nofollow noreferrer">部・</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuowen_Jiezi" rel="nofollow noreferrer">說文解字</a></kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-hk/%E9%9A%B6%E5%AE%9A" rel="nofollow noreferrer">隸定</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/MI8nV.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/MI8nV.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br><br>　<br></kbd></p>

<p>The character was originally「」, largely used as a phonetic loan for <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructions_of_Old_Chinese#Zhengzhang_(1981%E2%80%931995)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Zhengzhang OC</a>: <strong>/*ʔsɯ/</strong>, meaning <em>this</em> (now written as「茲」).「」came from a variant way of writing「絲」(<strong>/*slɯ/</strong>, <em>silk</em>).</p>

<hr>

<p>Later on,  horizontal lines or「Ｕ」shapes as <em>differentiating marks</em> were added to the top portion of「」, just below the notches, possibly to differentiate the original character from a myriad of other uses in the <em>Zhou</em> period (proper nouns and other phonetic loans). These additions ambiguously formed what is now written as「玆」or「茲」, which are really just variant shapes of each other:</p>

<p><kbd><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Zhou" rel="nofollow noreferrer">東周</a>・<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_(state)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">秦</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone_Drums_of_Qin" rel="nofollow noreferrer">石鼓</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/FqDwe.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/FqDwe.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br><br>　</kbd><kbd><br>篆<br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/KxMQK.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/KxMQK.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br><a href="https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&amp;file=77390&amp;page=4" rel="nofollow noreferrer">玄部・玆</a><br>說文解字</kbd><kbd><br>隸定<br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/P1Akn.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/P1Akn.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br><br>　</kbd></p>

<p><kbd><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period" rel="nofollow noreferrer">戰國</a>・<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_(state)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">楚</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_and_wooden_slips" rel="nofollow noreferrer">簡</a>・<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_Silk_Manuscript" rel="nofollow noreferrer">帛</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/72Rjv.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/72Rjv.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br>緇衣・13<br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guodian_Chu_Slips" rel="nofollow noreferrer">郭店楚簡</a></kbd><kbd><br>篆<br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/PDhxg.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/PDhxg.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br><a href="https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&amp;file=77389&amp;page=40" rel="nofollow noreferrer">艸部・茲</a><br>說文解字</kbd><kbd><br>隸定<br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/JNvbo.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/JNvbo.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br><br>　</kbd></p>

<p>Some other readings associated with「」or「玆」to note:</p>

<ul>
<li>Reading「」as「幽」(<em>concealed > dark</em>) is either an erroneous interpretation of「」as the phonetic component of「幽」, or saying that originally「」had another pronunciation.</li>
<li>Reading「玆」as <em>black</em> should be a phonetic loan for「緇」(<strong>/*ʔsrɯ/</strong>, <em>black silk</em>).</li>
<li>Reading「玆」as「玄」(<strong>/*ɡʷeːn/</strong>, <em>black, dark</em>) is the association of「玄」with「玆」. In this sense,「玆」can be viewed as another character, formed by reduplicating「玄」to also represent <strong>/*ɡʷeːn/</strong>, and unrelated in sound etymology to <strong>/*ʔsrɯ/</strong>.</li>
</ul>

<hr>

<p>Continuing on for the morpheme <strong>/*ʔsɯ/</strong> (<em>this</em>), the two「亠」on top of「玆」were sometimes joined to form「䒑」:</p>

<p><kbd><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_dynasty" rel="nofollow noreferrer">秦</a><br>簡<br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/XCytM.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/XCytM.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br>為吏之道51<br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuihudi_Qin_bamboo_texts" rel="nofollow noreferrer">睡虎地秦簡</a></kbd><kbd><br>隸定<br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/67fEQ.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/67fEQ.png" alt="enter image description here"></a><br><br>　</kbd></p>

<blockquote>
  <p>Alternatively,「䒑」is also a brush calligraphy variation of「艹」. Today, several character variations are due to swapping「艹」with「䒑」or vice-versa, the most prominent being「著」and「着」which were both originally corrupted from「箸」.</p>
</blockquote>

<hr>

<p>The character development <em>timeline</em> should then be「」,「玆・茲」,「兹」. Although this cannot directly answer the question as to why sometimes「茲」is preferred over「玆」or vice-versa as a phonetic component, from the historical development it is possible to see that the facts behind character structure and development was very concealed to later writers, influencing the muddled choices.</p>

<p>If you really <em>had</em> to choose one component or the other out of「茲」or「玆」, then pending on the character, that choice is sometimes quite easy.「茲」is <em>defined</em> in <em>Shuowen</em> as</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>艸木多益</p>
</blockquote>

<p>while「玆」is <em>defined</em> as</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>黑也</p>
</blockquote>

<p>So, for a character like「滋」which is defined as</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>益也</p>
</blockquote>

<p>The obvious choice is「茲」.</p>

<hr>

<p><strong>References:</strong></p>

<ul>
<li>季旭昇《說文新證》</li>
<li>黃德寬《古文字譜系疏證》</li>
<li><a href="http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">小學堂</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">國學大師</a>

<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">郭沫若《甲骨文合集》</a></li>
<li><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">中國社會科學院考古研究所《殷周金文集成》</a></li>
</ul></li>
<li><a href="https://ctext.org/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">中國哲學書電子化計劃</a>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&amp;res=77351" rel="nofollow noreferrer">宋・徐鉉等奉敕校定　漢・許慎《說文解字》</a></li>
</ul></li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-07-13T05:11:55.897Z
Thank you for the incredibly detailed response as always. A follow-up question:

If the U-shaped mark was added to 「」, then that implies the intended functional structure of 「茲」 was not 「艸」 + 「」. How did Shuowen get its definition for 「茲」? Was it related to one of the meanings 「」 represented?
wang_xiao_ming
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-07-13T05:28:46.880Z
@wang_xiao_ming there's something to be wary of: *Shuowen* sometimes **defines** things into existence without prior reason or evidence, and later dictionaries quote *Shuowen* quite often. Nevertheless, I believe that *Shuowen*'s definition of「茲」has some basis, although it is a very long stretch. Try starting off with either (1a) *dark/concealed* (「」's "other pronunciation" 「幽」) or (1b) *black* 「緇」, then (2) *deep* (e.g. *deep water*) > (3) *fill, multiply* 「滋」> (4) Use a「艸」variant of the character to describe specifically 艸木多益.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-07-13T05:30:48.460Z
Basically, there was something that sounded roughly like 子之切 that meant *fill, multiply*, and maybe *Xu Shen* found a Warring States inscription that had what looked like「艸」on top of a phonetic「」, then created the definition.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-07-13T03:08:36.190Z
2019-07-13T04:31:28.860Z
2019-07-13T04:31:28.860Z
dROOOze
<p>In Oracle Bone Script, it is  and very close to 絲. They are both two bundles of silk. 絲 has some threads below while  has none.  They are probably used interchangeably later but eventually  got the meaning of fine and small from the fine threads of silk.</p>

<p>艸 is added to  lately in during the Age of Warring State to differentiate its meanings from 絲.</p>

<p>Starting from Oracle Bone Script,  is used to write 此 for the sense of pronoun this. This preserves in the common meaning of 茲.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-07-12T05:52:48.600Z
2019-07-12T05:52:48.600Z
OmniBus
<p>Would this variation belong to a certain dynasty or time period? I cannot find an example of this and that leads me to believe it was created and used only by the individual who had it made.<br>
(<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/PmYQl.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://i.sstatic.net/PmYQl.jpg</a>)</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-09-25T14:46:45.267Z
2019-09-25T14:46:45.267Z
Mike
<p>Wiktionary explains the two glyph origins of 「兹」 as the following:</p>

<blockquote>
  <ol>
  <li><p>Unorthodox variant simplified from 茲 with 䒑 as the top component instead of 艹 found in the Ming dynasty orthographic dictionary 《俗書刊誤》.</p></li>
  <li><p>Variant form of 玆 with 䒑 instead of doubled 亠 as the top component. Found in the Tang dynasty orthographic dictionary Ganlu Zishu 《干祿字書》, which lists both 兹 and 茲 as unorthodox forms of 玆. </p></li>
  </ol>
</blockquote>

<p>For characters in the phonetic series 「兹」, most sources (from my experience) explain the characters as semantic 「X」 + phonetic 「茲」. To illustrate, here is a part of the entry for 「滋」 from Chinese Linguipedia:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>從水，表示與水相關；茲聲，表示音讀。</p>
</blockquote>

<p>And below is the entry for 「滋」 in 說文解字:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>益也。从水茲聲。</p>
</blockquote>

<p>However, it seems that there are two seal script forms; one that matches the structure 「水」 + 「茲」 (left), and the other matches the structure 「水」 + 「玆」 (right).</p>

<p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/zXaHX.jpg" width="240" height="240">
<img src="https://i.sstatic.net/J1YRQ.jpg" width="240" height="240"></p>

<p>Compare the seal script forms of 「茲」 and 「玆」 respectively:</p>

<p><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/C1yRF.jpg" width="240" height="240">
<img src="https://i.sstatic.net/BEdDH.jpg" width="240" height="240"></p>

<p>It also appears that abbreviated 「絲」 was the original phonetic component in older forms like oracle bone script, and was later replaced with 「茲」 or 「玆」. Both of these characters have the Fanqie spelling of 子之切, but seem to have different origins.</p>

<p>As a phonetic component, were both 「茲」 and 「玆」 used, and later converged into 「兹」? Or is there a different story behind it?</p>

<etymology><glyph-origin>
兹 as a phonetic component
# 兹 as a phonetic component

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-07-12)

Wiktionary explains the two glyph origins of 「兹」 as the following:

> 1. Unorthodox variant simplified from 茲 with 䒑 as the top component instead of 艹 found in the Ming dynasty orthographic dictionary 《俗書刊誤》.
> 2. Variant form of 玆 with 䒑 instead of doubled 亠 as the top component. Found in the Tang dynasty orthographic dictionary Ganlu Zishu 《干祿字書》, which lists both 兹 and 茲 as unorthodox forms of 玆.

For characters in the phonetic series 「兹」, most sources (from my experience) explain the characters as semantic 「X」 + phonetic 「茲」. To illustrate, here is a part of the entry for 「滋」 from Chinese Linguipedia:

> 從水，表示與水相關；茲聲，表示音讀。

And below is the entry for 「滋」 in 說文解字:

> 益也。从水茲聲。

However, it seems that there are two seal script forms; one that matches the structure 「水」 + 「茲」 (left), and the other matches the structure 「水」 + 「玆」 (right).

![](https://i.sstatic.net/zXaHX.jpg)
![](https://i.sstatic.net/J1YRQ.jpg)

Compare the seal script forms of 「茲」 and 「玆」 respectively:

![](https://i.sstatic.net/C1yRF.jpg)
![](https://i.sstatic.net/BEdDH.jpg)

It also appears that abbreviated 「絲」 was the original phonetic component in older forms like oracle bone script, and was later replaced with 「茲」 or 「玆」. Both of these characters have the Fanqie spelling of 子之切, but seem to have different origins.

As a phonetic component, were both 「茲」 and 「玆」 used, and later converged into 「兹」? Or is there a different story behind it?

**Tags:** etymology, glyph-origin


---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2019-07-13. Score: 3 | Accepted answer

`商  
甲  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/KrQK4.png)  
鐵178.2  
合集11606``西周  
金  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/aQFkm.png)  
沈子它簋蓋  
集成4330` `篆  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/FWJuV.png)  
部・  
說文解字` `隸定  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/MI8nV.png)`

The character was originally「」, largely used as a phonetic loan for [Zhengzhang OC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructions_of_Old_Chinese#Zhengzhang_(1981%E2%80%931995)): **/\*ʔsɯ/**, meaning *this* (now written as「茲」).「」came from a variant way of writing「絲」(**/\*slɯ/**, *silk*).

---

Later on, horizontal lines or「Ｕ」shapes as *differentiating marks* were added to the top portion of「」, just below the notches, possibly to differentiate the original character from a myriad of other uses in the *Zhou* period (proper nouns and other phonetic loans). These additions ambiguously formed what is now written as「玆」or「茲」, which are really just variant shapes of each other:

`東周・秦  
石鼓  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/FqDwe.png)` `篆  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/KxMQK.png)  
玄部・玆  
說文解字` `隸定  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/P1Akn.png)`

`戰國・楚  
簡・帛  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/72Rjv.png)  
緇衣・13  
郭店楚簡` `篆  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/PDhxg.png)  
艸部・茲  
說文解字` `隸定  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/JNvbo.png)`

Some other readings associated with「」or「玆」to note:

* Reading「」as「幽」(*concealed > dark*) is either an erroneous interpretation of「」as the phonetic component of「幽」, or saying that originally「」had another pronunciation.
* Reading「玆」as *black* should be a phonetic loan for「緇」(**/\*ʔsrɯ/**, *black silk*).
* Reading「玆」as「玄」(**/\*ɡʷeːn/**, *black, dark*) is the association of「玄」with「玆」. In this sense,「玆」can be viewed as another character, formed by reduplicating「玄」to also represent **/\*ɡʷeːn/**, and unrelated in sound etymology to **/\*ʔsrɯ/**.

---

Continuing on for the morpheme **/\*ʔsɯ/** (*this*), the two「亠」on top of「玆」were sometimes joined to form「䒑」:

`秦  
簡  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/XCytM.png)  
為吏之道51  
睡虎地秦簡` `隸定  
![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/67fEQ.png)`

> Alternatively,「䒑」is also a brush calligraphy variation of「艹」. Today, several character variations are due to swapping「艹」with「䒑」or vice-versa, the most prominent being「著」and「着」which were both originally corrupted from「箸」.

---

The character development *timeline* should then be「」,「玆・茲」,「兹」. Although this cannot directly answer the question as to why sometimes「茲」is preferred over「玆」or vice-versa as a phonetic component, from the historical development it is possible to see that the facts behind character structure and development was very concealed to later writers, influencing the muddled choices.

If you really *had* to choose one component or the other out of「茲」or「玆」, then pending on the character, that choice is sometimes quite easy.「茲」is *defined* in *Shuowen* as

> 艸木多益

while「玆」is *defined* as

> 黑也

So, for a character like「滋」which is defined as

> 益也

The obvious choice is「茲」.

---

**References:**

* 季旭昇《說文新證》
* 黃德寬《古文字譜系疏證》
* [小學堂](http://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/)
* [國學大師](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/)
  + [郭沫若《甲骨文合集》](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/jgwhj/)
  + [中國社會科學院考古研究所《殷周金文集成》](http://www.guoxuedashi.com/yzjwjc/)
* [中國哲學書電子化計劃](https://ctext.org/)
  + [宋・徐鉉等奉敕校定　漢・許慎《說文解字》](https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&res=77351)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thank you for the incredibly detailed response as always. A follow-up question:  If the U-shaped mark was added to 「」, then that implies the intended functional structure of 「茲」 was not 「艸」 + 「」. How did Shuowen get its definition for 「茲」? Was it related to one of the meanings 「」 represented?  
> **username_1**: @username_0 there's something to be wary of: *Shuowen* sometimes **defines** things into existence without prior reason or evidence, and later dictionaries quote *Shuowen* quite often. Nevertheless, I believe that *Shuowen*'s definition of「茲」has some basis, although it is a very long stretch. Try starting off with either (1a) *dark/concealed* (「」's "other pronunciation" 「幽」) or (1b) *black* 「緇」, then (2) *deep* (e.g. *deep water*) > (3) *fill, multiply* 「滋」> (4) Use a「艸」variant of the character to describe specifically 艸木多益.  
> **username_1**: Basically, there was something that sounded roughly like 子之切 that meant *fill, multiply*, and maybe *Xu Shen* found a Warring States inscription that had what looked like「艸」on top of a phonetic「」, then created the definition.  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2019-07-12. Score: 1

In Oracle Bone Script, it is and very close to 絲. They are both two bundles of silk. 絲 has some threads below while has none. They are probably used interchangeably later but eventually got the meaning of fine and small from the fine threads of silk.

艸 is added to lately in during the Age of Warring State to differentiate its meanings from 絲.

Starting from Oracle Bone Script, is used to write 此 for the sense of pronoun this. This preserves in the common meaning of 茲.


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2019-09-25. Score: 0

Would this variation belong to a certain dynasty or time period? I cannot find an example of this and that leads me to believe it was created and used only by the individual who had it made.  
(<https://i.sstatic.net/PmYQl.jpg>)


---

