<blockquote>
  <p>rhymes should be 情，清，平，城</p>
</blockquote>

<p>you guess it. the problem is, in mandarin, it's not; so, you want to testify it.</p>

<p>fortunately, it's rhyming in <strong>cantonese</strong>, even nowadays:</p>

<p><a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E6%83%85" rel="nofollow noreferrer">情　ching4</a>　<a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/cing4.Mp3" rel="nofollow noreferrer">sound file</a></p>

<p><a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E6%B8%85" rel="nofollow noreferrer">清　ching1</a>　<a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/cing1.Mp3" rel="nofollow noreferrer">sound file</a></p>

<p><a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E5%B9%B3" rel="nofollow noreferrer">平　ping4</a>　<a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/ping4.Mp3" rel="nofollow noreferrer">sound file</a></p>

<p><a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E5%9F%8E" rel="nofollow noreferrer">城　sing4</a>　<a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/sing4.Mp3" rel="nofollow noreferrer">sound file</a></p>

<p>in the above, sydney lau scheme is used, that 1 is high level tone, 4 is low level tone. the most important, these four are in level tone.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>So, how exactly to use the above or an other book to test if 清，情，平，城 were considered rhymes during Tang or at least Song?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>frankly, when we read the poem by cantonese, we know it's in rhyming immediately, by the pronunciation.</p>

<p>it's a 首句平仄腳五言律詩, roughly, the first verse (首句) 4th, 5th character is level tone (平), non-level tone 仄; 8 verses, each has 5 characters.</p>

<p>how to translate it, well, good luck lah :)</p>

<p>ludi kun, some advices for you: use proper, authentic tools.</p>

<p>for rime dictionary, i would recommend:</p>

<p><a href="http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v1.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">廣韻上平聲卷第一</a></p>

<p><a href="http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v2.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">廣韻下平聲卷第二</a></p>

<p><a href="http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v3.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">廣韻上聲卷第三</a></p>

<p><a href="http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v4.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">廣韻去聲卷第四</a></p>

<p><a href="http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v5.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">廣韻入聲卷第五</a></p>

<p>download these five xhtml files to your computer, then you can search it locally, off-line.</p>

<p>in case, you want a pdf file of the oldest one (printed in 1169), try 鉅宋廣韻:</p>

<p><a href="https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/DAS/pickup/view/category/categoryArchives/0500000000/0511000000/00" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/DAS/pickup/view/category/categoryArchives/0500000000/0511000000/00</a></p>

<p>then, there's "刊謬補缺切韻" by 王仁昫 of 唐 dynasty, well, i can find any copy online :( however, the hkcu has a "唐寫全本王仁昫刊謬補缺切韻校箋", a revision of it.</p>

<p>have fun :)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-11-23T05:06:16.457Z
2017-11-23T05:06:16.457Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>In the character's zdic entry, there is a section labelled <a href="http://www.zdic.net/z/17/yy/57CE.htm" rel="nofollow noreferrer">音韻方言</a>, which will have the character's rime group (韻目). In the 廣韻 section, <strong>城</strong> is labelled under the header <strong>清</strong>. Ctext further has a more organised version of <a href="http://ctext.org/guangyun" rel="nofollow noreferrer">廣韻</a>, which you can quickly Ctrl+F your way into <a href="http://ctext.org/text.pl?node=296839&amp;if=en" rel="nofollow noreferrer">清</a>, which will list all the characters under that rime.</p>

<p>If you have some knowledge of other Chinese languages, or some understanding of how <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Xenic_pronunciations" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Sinoxenic vocabulary</a> works in Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese, you can corroborate the fact that, at least in some non-Mandarin pronunciations, those characters that you listed did indeed rime.</p>

<p>Interestingly, 清 and 靑 did <em>not</em> rime in Guangyun, as evidenced by the fact that it had its own rime entry.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-11-23T12:47:07.793Z
Under the 廣韻 header it says: 下平十四清. So, is 下平 the tone, 清 the rhyme and what is 十四？
Ludi
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-11-23T13:02:36.723Z
I think it's the 14th section header of the 下平 tone. I don't think the number means anything apart from being an index number.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-11-22T23:59:09.247Z
2017-11-22T23:59:09.247Z
dROOOze
<p>I was reading the following poem by Meng Haoran, whose translation is still troubling me. For a start I thought, I should identify the rhymes. </p>

<pre><code>李氏园林卧疾
唐代：孟浩然

我爱陶家趣，
园林无俗情。
春雷百卉坼，
寒食四邻清。 
伏枕嗟公干，
归山羡子平。
年年白社客，
空滞洛阳城。
</code></pre>

<p>Naively I was sure the rhymes should be 情，清，平，城. However, I thought there must be a way to test this. I know different rhyme dictionaries were developed by the Ancients, as the preferences changed over time. I thought 廣韻 was a famous one and I was lucky to find <a href="http://ctext.org/library.pl?if=en&amp;file=77411&amp;page=60" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this digitalisation </a> online. I found the character 清 and was directed to the corresponding page of the dictionary. I expected a list of rhymes to 清， but I guess the result is something different, since there are lots of sentences like 「山海經曰⋯」. Some characters are printed bolder than others, but below them seems to be something other than a complete list of rhymes.</p>

<p>So, how exactly to use the above or an other book to test if 清，情，平，城 were considered rhymes during Tang or at least Song?</p>

<poetry>
How to identify rhymes in a Tang poem?
# How to identify rhymes in a Tang poem?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-11-22)

I was reading the following poem by Meng Haoran, whose translation is still troubling me. For a start I thought, I should identify the rhymes.

```
李氏园林卧疾
唐代：孟浩然

我爱陶家趣，
园林无俗情。
春雷百卉坼，
寒食四邻清。 
伏枕嗟公干，
归山羡子平。
年年白社客，
空滞洛阳城。

```

Naively I was sure the rhymes should be 情，清，平，城. However, I thought there must be a way to test this. I know different rhyme dictionaries were developed by the Ancients, as the preferences changed over time. I thought 廣韻 was a famous one and I was lucky to find [this digitalisation](http://ctext.org/library.pl?if=en&file=77411&page=60)  online. I found the character 清 and was directed to the corresponding page of the dictionary. I expected a list of rhymes to 清， but I guess the result is something different, since there are lots of sentences like 「山海經曰⋯」. Some characters are printed bolder than others, but below them seems to be something other than a complete list of rhymes.

So, how exactly to use the above or an other book to test if 清，情，平，城 were considered rhymes during Tang or at least Song?

**Tags:** poetry


---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2017-11-23. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

> rhymes should be 情，清，平，城

you guess it. the problem is, in mandarin, it's not; so, you want to testify it.

fortunately, it's rhyming in **cantonese**, even nowadays:

[情　ching4](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E6%83%85)　[sound file](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/cing4.Mp3)

[清　ching1](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E6%B8%85)　[sound file](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/cing1.Mp3)

[平　ping4](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E5%B9%B3)　[sound file](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/ping4.Mp3)

[城　sing4](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E5%9F%8E)　[sound file](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/sound/sing4.Mp3)

in the above, sydney lau scheme is used, that 1 is high level tone, 4 is low level tone. the most important, these four are in level tone.

> So, how exactly to use the above or an other book to test if 清，情，平，城 were considered rhymes during Tang or at least Song?

frankly, when we read the poem by cantonese, we know it's in rhyming immediately, by the pronunciation.

it's a 首句平仄腳五言律詩, roughly, the first verse (首句) 4th, 5th character is level tone (平), non-level tone 仄; 8 verses, each has 5 characters.

how to translate it, well, good luck lah :)

username_0 kun, some advices for you: use proper, authentic tools.

for rime dictionary, i would recommend:

[廣韻上平聲卷第一](http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v1.html)

[廣韻下平聲卷第二](http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v2.html)

[廣韻上聲卷第三](http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v3.html)

[廣韻去聲卷第四](http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v4.html)

[廣韻入聲卷第五](http://kanji-database.sourceforge.net/dict/sbgy/v5.html)

download these five xhtml files to your computer, then you can search it locally, off-line.

in case, you want a pdf file of the oldest one (printed in 1169), try 鉅宋廣韻:

<https://www.digital.archives.go.jp/DAS/pickup/view/category/categoryArchives/0500000000/0511000000/00>

then, there's "刊謬補缺切韻" by 王仁昫 of 唐 dynasty, well, i can find any copy online :( however, the hkcu has a "唐寫全本王仁昫刊謬補缺切韻校箋", a revision of it.

have fun :)


---

### Answer by username_2 on 2017-11-22. Score: 2

In the character's zdic entry, there is a section labelled [音韻方言](http://www.zdic.net/z/17/yy/57CE.htm), which will have the character's rime group (韻目). In the 廣韻 section, **城** is labelled under the header **清**. Ctext further has a more organised version of [廣韻](http://ctext.org/guangyun), which you can quickly Ctrl+F your way into [清](http://ctext.org/text.pl?node=296839&if=en), which will list all the characters under that rime.

If you have some knowledge of other Chinese languages, or some understanding of how [Sinoxenic vocabulary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Xenic_pronunciations) works in Japanese/Korean/Vietnamese, you can corroborate the fact that, at least in some non-Mandarin pronunciations, those characters that you listed did indeed rime.

Interestingly, 清 and 靑 did *not* rime in Guangyun, as evidenced by the fact that it had its own rime entry.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Under the 廣韻 header it says: 下平十四清. So, is 下平 the tone, 清 the rhyme and what is 十四？  
> **username_2**: I think it's the 14th section header of the 下平 tone. I don't think the number means anything apart from being an index number.  

---

