<p>It really depends on the focus/contexts of the conservation, 學生, and 人生 are not very easily mistaken one for another.</p>
<p>師嘆曰: 儒<strong>子</strong>不可<strong>教</strong>也.</p>
<p>問: 此(學)<strong>生</strong>或彼(學)<strong>生</strong>(如此不受<strong>教</strong>)?</p>
<p>婦哭訴: <strong>生</strong>不如<strong>死</strong>.</p>
<p>問: 此<strong>生</strong>(this life)或來<strong>生</strong>(next life)?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-03-12T21:14:33.520Z
2023-03-12T21:14:33.520Z
r13
<p>Though my knowledge of classic Chinese is limited, I don't think ancient Chinese would express an idea such as &quot;這一個學生或是那一個學生&quot;, or &quot;此生或彼生&quot;. To me, &quot;這一個學生或是那一個學生&quot; is kind of awkward. I'd use &quot;這兩個學生那一個...&quot;. For example:<br>
&quot;這一個學生或是那一個學生較聰明?&quot; =&gt; &quot;這兩個學生那一個較聰明?&quot; =&gt; &quot;此二生孰慧?&quot;<br>
&quot;這一個人或那一個人比較孝順?&quot; =&gt; &quot;這兩個人那一個比較孝順?&quot; =&gt; &quot;此二人孰孝?&quot;<br><br>
Though there is nothing wrong with &quot;此生或彼生孰慧?&quot;, it just sounds unnatural to me.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-03-13T10:45:37.550Z
2023-03-13T10:45:37.550Z
joehua
<p>Maybe you can say, 此人或彼人。</p>
<p>生 originally means life, reproduce， giving birth to。 It is indirectly used for youth as in 晚生，后生，小生，学生。 When 生 is used by itself, people would not think of the transformed meaning.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-03-13T13:02:19.893Z
2023-03-13T13:02:19.893Z
PdotWang
<h2>TLDR Background</h2>
<p>In his text <a href="https://zh.wikisource.org/zh-hans/%E3%80%8C%E6%AD%A4%E7%94%9F%E6%88%96%E5%BD%BC%E7%94%9F%E3%80%8D" rel="nofollow noreferrer">此生或彼生</a> Lu Xun takes apart a proponent of literary Chinese (named, I think, Wang Maozu). Wang had attempted to argue the superiority of Literary Chinese by pointing out that</p>
<blockquote>
<p>這一個學生或是那一個學生</p>
</blockquote>
<p>could be recast in Literary Chinese as the reduction</p>
<blockquote>
<p>此生或彼生。</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Wang’s argument immediately struck me as somewhat disingenuous, since several 一 and 是 can be omitted in colloquial Chinese.</p>
<p>Lu Xun responded with the valid criticism that 生 in Wang’s reduction was ambiguous and could denote 學生，秀才 and 這一世/來生。</p>
<p>While I believe that f.e. 孔子家語 offers many examples of Classical Chinese being read ambiguously by the Ancients, I wonder, how hard it would have been for Wang to make a better argument for this single case.</p>
<h2>Question</h2>
<p>Could Wang simply have said</p>
<blockquote>
<p>此徒或彼弟</p>
</blockquote>
<p>to make his meaning clear without lengthening the phrase?</p>
<p>Is there another, less ambiguous, option of equal or even smaller length?</p>
<p>I suspect that most 此A彼B patterns involve A and B verbs [此起彼落、此呼彼应], not nouns. Though 此界彼疆 might be an exception. But perhaps the 此A彼B pattern is not even the smartest way to go.</p>

<literary-chinese>
Can we replace 此生或彼生 in 文言文 with something less ambiguous but not longer?
# Can we replace 此生或彼生 in 文言文 with something less ambiguous but not longer?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-03-12)

## TLDR Background

In his text [此生或彼生](https://zh.wikisource.org/zh-hans/%E3%80%8C%E6%AD%A4%E7%94%9F%E6%88%96%E5%BD%BC%E7%94%9F%E3%80%8D) Lu Xun takes apart a proponent of literary Chinese (named, I think, Wang Maozu). Wang had attempted to argue the superiority of Literary Chinese by pointing out that

> 這一個學生或是那一個學生

could be recast in Literary Chinese as the reduction

> 此生或彼生。

Wang’s argument immediately struck me as somewhat disingenuous, since several 一 and 是 can be omitted in colloquial Chinese.

Lu Xun responded with the valid criticism that 生 in Wang’s reduction was ambiguous and could denote 學生，秀才 and 這一世/來生。

While I believe that f.e. 孔子家語 offers many examples of Classical Chinese being read ambiguously by the Ancients, I wonder, how hard it would have been for Wang to make a better argument for this single case.

## Question

Could Wang simply have said

> 此徒或彼弟

to make his meaning clear without lengthening the phrase?

Is there another, less ambiguous, option of equal or even smaller length?

I suspect that most 此A彼B patterns involve A and B verbs [此起彼落、此呼彼应], not nouns. Though 此界彼疆 might be an exception. But perhaps the 此A彼B pattern is not even the smartest way to go.

**Tags:** literary-chinese


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## 3 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2023-03-12. Score: 1

It really depends on the focus/contexts of the conservation, 學生, and 人生 are not very easily mistaken one for another.

師嘆曰: 儒**子**不可**教**也.

問: 此(學)**生**或彼(學)**生**(如此不受**教**)?

婦哭訴: **生**不如**死**.

問: 此**生**(this life)或來**生**(next life)?


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### Answer by username_2 on 2023-03-13. Score: 0

Though my knowledge of classic Chinese is limited, I don't think ancient Chinese would express an idea such as "這一個學生或是那一個學生", or "此生或彼生". To me, "這一個學生或是那一個學生" is kind of awkward. I'd use "這兩個學生那一個...". For example:  
"這一個學生或是那一個學生較聰明?" => "這兩個學生那一個較聰明?" => "此二生孰慧?"  
"這一個人或那一個人比較孝順?" => "這兩個人那一個比較孝順?" => "此二人孰孝?"  
  
Though there is nothing wrong with "此生或彼生孰慧?", it just sounds unnatural to me.


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### Answer by username_3 on 2023-03-13. Score: 0

Maybe you can say, 此人或彼人。

生 originally means life, reproduce， giving birth to。 It is indirectly used for youth as in 晚生，后生，小生，学生。 When 生 is used by itself, people would not think of the transformed meaning.


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