<p>My conclusion after observing the two words is that they are not related.</p>
<p>The right component of 龍 depicts the form of a Loong with spikes on its back;  while 弱 seems to relate to decorative features like 羽 (feather)</p>
<p>The character 弱(weak) came from the image of a decorated bow, which implies it is not as strong as a practical bow</p>
<p>Reference</p>
<blockquote>
<p><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%BC%B1" rel="nofollow noreferrer">弱</a>: deogrammic compound (會意／会意): 弓 (“bow”) + 彡 (“hair, meaning &quot;decoration&quot; in this case”) - a decorative bow that is functionally inferior. Or it might be indicating that the bow is shaking, which implies a worn-out bow.</p>
</blockquote>
<blockquote>
<p><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%BE%8D" rel="nofollow noreferrer">龍</a>: Current form developed in large seal script, with serpent’s body on right (tail at upper right, legs on right)</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-03-18T06:21:58.390Z
2024-03-18T06:35:16.560Z
2024-03-18T06:35:16.560Z
Tang Ho
<p>No, they're not related. The right side of 「龍」 appearing similar to a reflected version of a part of 「弱」 is a coincidence, and is an artefact of seal script shapes.</p>
<ul>
<li><p>「龍」 was originally a picture of a mythical animal with a long, snake-like body (pic. 1). The right side of 「龍」 is the animal's body, which later separated from the animal's head and incorporated an additional 2-3 decorative strokes (pic. 3).<br />
<kbd><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shang_dynasty" rel="nofollow noreferrer">商</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oracle_bone_script" rel="nofollow noreferrer">甲</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/6KlAs.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/6KlAs.png" alt="龍" /></a><br><a href="https://xiaoxue.iis.sinica.edu.tw/yanbian/Reference/JiaguwenReference" rel="nofollow noreferrer">拾</a>5.5<br><a href="http://www.guoxuedashi.net/jgwhj/?bhfl=1&amp;bh=6631&amp;jgwfl=" rel="nofollow noreferrer">合集6631</a></kbd><kbd><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spring_and_Autumn_period" rel="nofollow noreferrer">春秋</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_bronze_inscriptions" rel="nofollow noreferrer">金</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/I1wd4.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/I1wd4.png" alt="龍" /></a><br>郘Ｘ鐘<br><a href="https://www.guoxuedashi.net/yzjwjc/?bh=226&amp;jgwfl=" rel="nofollow noreferrer">集成226</a></kbd><kbd><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warring_States_period" rel="nofollow noreferrer">戰國</a>・<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jin_(Chinese_state)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">晉</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seal_(East_Asia)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">璽印</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/WcQiY.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/WcQiY.png" alt="龍" /></a><br>0538<br>古璽彙編</kbd><kbd><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small_seal_script" rel="nofollow noreferrer">篆</a><br><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/02Xyx.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/02Xyx.png" alt="龍" /></a><br><a href="https://ctext.org/library.pl?if=gb&amp;file=77391&amp;page=135" rel="nofollow noreferrer">龍部</a><br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuowen_Jiezi" rel="nofollow noreferrer">說文解字</a></kbd></p>
</li>
<li><p>「弱」 is a reduplication of a component; this component was originally a picture of a person 「人」 urinating (indicated by a shape similar to drops of water, 「氵」). The word that the component originally represented (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructions_of_Old_Chinese#Baxter%E2%80%93Sagart_(2014)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Baxter-Sagart OC</a>: <strong>/*kə.nˤewk-s/</strong>) is now commonly written as 「尿」, with a less common variant 「溺」. The word meaning <em>weak</em> for 「弱」 (<strong>/*newk/</strong>) is a <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classification#Loangraphs" rel="nofollow noreferrer">phonetic loan</a>.</p>
<div class="s-table-container"><table class="s-table">
<thead>
<tr>
<th style="text-align: center;">時期<br>字體</th>
<th style="text-align: center;">字形｜<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liding" rel="nofollow noreferrer">隸定</a></th>
<th style="text-align: center;">參考資料</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;">商<br>甲</td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/q46Ft.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/q46Ft.png" alt="尿" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.guoxuedashi.net/zixing/yysm.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">菁</a>5.1</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;">戰國・楚<br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_and_wooden_slips" rel="nofollow noreferrer">簡</a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/gZHZY.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/gZHZY.png" alt="溺" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">7<br>包山楚簡</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;">戰國・楚<br>簡</td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/dfrGb.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/dfrGb.png" alt="溺" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">老甲12<br><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guodian_Chu_Slips" rel="nofollow noreferrer">郭店楚簡</a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_dynasty" rel="nofollow noreferrer">秦</a><br>陶文</td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/CtxQJ.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/CtxQJ.png" alt="弱" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;">648<br>秦陶</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_(typefaces)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">宋楷</a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/rDRVt.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/rDRVt.png" alt="弱" /></a></td>
<td style="text-align: center;"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table></div>
<p>The original form (row 1) was duplicated, and in <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_(state)" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Chǔ</a> scripts (rows 2 &amp; 3), (a) one of the 「人」 was corrupted to 「勿」 and (b) one of the 「氵」 become a fully-fledged 「水」 (albeit, written sideways like in 「益」) and disconnected from the person. In <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_dynasty" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Qín</a> scripts (row 4), 「人」 was corrupted into 「弓」, leading to the modern 「弱」.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<hr />
<p><strong>References</strong>:</p>
<ul>
<li>季旭昇《說文新證》</li>
</ul>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-03-18T10:49:35.803Z
2024-03-28T19:07:09.580Z
2024-03-28T19:07:09.580Z
dROOOze
<p>The right component of the small seal script 龍 seems to be the mirror image of the components of 弱. I know the older historical forms of 龍 do not share this similarity but I can't help but wonder if this is more than coincidence. Is there any relationship between these components?</p>
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/%E9%BE%8D-seal.svg/1024px-%E9%BE%8D-seal.svg.png" height="100" />
<br>
<img src="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/%E5%BC%B1-seal.svg/1024px-%E5%BC%B1-seal.svg.png" height="100" />

<glyph-origin><seal><character-components>
Is the right componet of 龍 related to 弱?
# Is the right componet of 龍 related to 弱?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-03-18)

The right component of the small seal script 龍 seems to be the mirror image of the components of 弱. I know the older historical forms of 龍 do not share this similarity but I can't help but wonder if this is more than coincidence. Is there any relationship between these components?

![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/%E9%BE%8D-seal.svg/1024px-%E9%BE%8D-seal.svg.png)
  
![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/%E5%BC%B1-seal.svg/1024px-%E5%BC%B1-seal.svg.png)

**Tags:** glyph-origin, seal, character-components


---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2024-03-18. Score: 12 | Accepted answer

No, they're not related. The right side of 「龍」 appearing similar to a reflected version of a part of 「弱」 is a coincidence, and is an artefact of seal script shapes.

* 「龍」 was originally a picture of a mythical animal with a long, snake-like body (pic. 1). The right side of 「龍」 is the animal's body, which later separated from the animal's head and incorporated an additional 2-3 decorative strokes (pic. 3).  
  `商  
  甲  
  ![龍](https://i.sstatic.net/6KlAs.png)  
  拾5.5  
  合集6631``春秋  
  金  
  ![龍](https://i.sstatic.net/I1wd4.png)  
  郘Ｘ鐘  
  集成226``戰國・晉  
  璽印  
  ![龍](https://i.sstatic.net/WcQiY.png)  
  0538  
  古璽彙編` `篆  
  ![龍](https://i.sstatic.net/02Xyx.png)  
  龍部  
  說文解字`
* 「弱」 is a reduplication of a component; this component was originally a picture of a person 「人」 urinating (indicated by a shape similar to drops of water, 「氵」). The word that the component originally represented ([Baxter-Sagart OC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconstructions_of_Old_Chinese#Baxter%E2%80%93Sagart_(2014)): **/\*kə.nˤewk-s/**) is now commonly written as 「尿」, with a less common variant 「溺」. The word meaning *weak* for 「弱」 (**/\*newk/**) is a [phonetic loan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_character_classification#Loangraphs).

  | 時期 字體 | 字形｜[隸定](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liding) | 參考資料 |
  | --- | --- | --- |
  | 商 甲 | [尿](https://i.sstatic.net/q46Ft.png) | [菁](https://www.guoxuedashi.net/zixing/yysm.html)5.1 |
  | 戰國・楚 [簡](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_and_wooden_slips) | [溺](https://i.sstatic.net/gZHZY.png) | 7 包山楚簡 |
  | 戰國・楚 簡 | [溺](https://i.sstatic.net/dfrGb.png) | 老甲12 [郭店楚簡](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guodian_Chu_Slips) |
  | [秦](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_dynasty) 陶文 | [弱](https://i.sstatic.net/CtxQJ.png) | 648 秦陶 |
  | [宋楷](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ming_(typefaces)) | [弱](https://i.sstatic.net/rDRVt.png) |  |

  The original form (row 1) was duplicated, and in [Chǔ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chu_(state)) scripts (rows 2 & 3), (a) one of the 「人」 was corrupted to 「勿」 and (b) one of the 「氵」 become a fully-fledged 「水」 (albeit, written sideways like in 「益」) and disconnected from the person. In [Qín](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qin_dynasty) scripts (row 4), 「人」 was corrupted into 「弓」, leading to the modern 「弱」.

---

**References**:

* 季旭昇《說文新證》


---

### Answer by username_1 on 2024-03-18. Score: 2

My conclusion after observing the two words is that they are not related.

The right component of 龍 depicts the form of a Loong with spikes on its back; while 弱 seems to relate to decorative features like 羽 (feather)

The character 弱(weak) came from the image of a decorated bow, which implies it is not as strong as a practical bow

Reference

> [弱](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%BC%B1): deogrammic compound (會意／会意): 弓 (“bow”) + 彡 (“hair, meaning "decoration" in this case”) - a decorative bow that is functionally inferior. Or it might be indicating that the bow is shaking, which implies a worn-out bow.

> [龍](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E9%BE%8D): Current form developed in large seal script, with serpent’s body on right (tail at upper right, legs on right)


---

