<p>It is a 棋諺 (Go saying/ common wise words for Go playing).</p>

<p>見棋不是棋 would mean <em>the hand that's obvious to you is not the hand</em> --- meaning you need to look beyond the obvious and decide your move with more in-depth analysis.</p>

<p>Simply put: If a move is obvious to you, it would also be obvious to your opponent, therefore, it wouldn't be as effective as a surprise move.</p>

<p><em>Shu Ha Ri 守破離 is a martial art saying. The only commonality between 守破離 and 見棋不是棋 is they are both "saying/ common wise word" (口訣).</em> </p>

<p>Other 棋諺 I remember: </p>

<ul>
<li><a href="https://kknews.cc/history/8znnv24.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">左右同形中間有棋</a> : refers to "the middle point is the key to connecting two weak groups with the same shape". </li>
<li><a href="https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%83%E6%AD%BB%E5%85%AB%E6%B4%BB/17654330" rel="nofollow noreferrer">七死八活</a> : "seven dead, eight alive", referring to the minimum number of stones in a row on the side that you need in order to live.</li>
<li>白鶴守巢 : "white crane guarding nest" or, as usually translated into English: the <em>crane's nest</em>, a specific famous instance of a <em>snapback</em>.</li>
</ul>

<p><em>I play Go too, but I am only at SDK level</em>.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T15:03:10.553Z
Apparently, my memory got very corrupted. Now that you explained it, it does make more sense and I that's actually what the translator told me back then. But I don't quite understand why your 見棋不是棋 is in a different order with respect to the fan's inscription. Did the fan rephrase it to sound cooler?
psygo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T15:05:36.053Z
I'm in a bit of a Go hiatus right now, but maybe we can play someday in the future. I used to be around 3-4D on Tygem, nothing spectacular. They only let me join the championship because they always want foreigners to participate.
psygo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T15:11:32.753Z
In your answer, you mentioned *three* other Chinese terms (棋諺, 左右同形中間有棋 and 八生七死). I don't quite know their meaning. Would please you care to clarify/translate them?
psygo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T17:23:38.477Z
@Philippe Fanaro See the links I added to 左右同形中間有棋" and "八生七死".
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T18:29:44.910Z
3-4D have to give me 8-9 stones handicap. It won't be fun
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T19:13:36.057Z
It depends on the meaning of fun I guess... If it you think that learning is fun, then it would be a lot of fun. But I understand what you mean by that, I had the same experience when I played with professionals in my stay in Asia.
psygo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T19:20:38.823Z
With respect to the links... The references are really cool, but I was thinking more about translations of them in *English*. From what I can understand about [左右同形中間有棋](https://kknews.cc/history/8znnv24.html) link, it is referring to what we have translated as *snapback*. As for [七死八活](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%83%E6%AD%BB%E5%85%AB%E6%B4%BB/17654330), from Google Translate, it seems to refer to the minimum number of stones in a row on the side that you need in order to live (*Seven dead, Eight alive*). Perhaps you have better translations.
psygo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T19:29:51.063Z
@Philippe Fanaro 左右同形中間有棋 refers to "the middle point is the key to connecting two weak groups with the same shape "   and 七死八活 is as you described, "the minimum number of stones in a row on the side that you need in order to live"
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T19:33:53.297Z
the particular snapback showed on the link is nickname 白鶴守巢 (white crane guarding nest). remember the shape with  a nickname  help new learner to realize it is useless to try to escape
Tang Ho
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T19:53:17.617Z
Ok, cool. I've added a final edit with the translations on the answer.
psygo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-28T05:19:03.880Z
@PhilippeFanaro The "different order" is because Chinese used to be read from top to bottom then right to left. But Western influence caused modern Chinese to be read from left to right then top to bottom.
Daniel Cheung
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-28T09:11:54.887Z
@Daniel Cheung Cool, that's nice to know!
psygo
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-24T03:19:54.540Z
2019-08-24T19:54:37.180Z
2019-08-24T19:54:37.180Z
Tang Ho
<p>In a trip to Hangzhou, almost 2 years ago, I participated in one (the biggest if I'm not mistaken) of the <em>Chinese National Amateur Weiqi Championship</em> as a (Brazilian) foreigner.</p>

<p>During one of the subevents, the organization wanted the foreign participants to play a team game against monks from a monastery. Kind as they almost always (<em>not on the Weiqi board lol</em>) are, the monks brought us some souvenirs, the main one being a fan.</p>

<p>On the fan, there is an inscription that, according to the event official translator is difficult to translate. I don't recall the meaning she gave me back then, but it was something related to the Japanese <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuhari" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>Shu Ha Ri</em></a> (she didn't mention <em>Shu Ha Ri</em>, that's my perception actually). Here is a picture of the fan (now with Kim Jiseok 9p's autograph also):</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/2xpc0.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/2xpc0.jpg" alt="Hangzhou Fan"></a></p>

<p><em>Shu Ha Ri</em> would be a succinct description of the cycle of mastery of a craft, usually referring to <em>Aikido</em>. On the Wikipedia page:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>It is known that, when we learn or train in something, we pass through the stages of shu, ha, and ri. These stages are explained as follows. In shu, we repeat the forms and discipline ourselves so that our bodies absorb the forms that our forebears created. We remain faithful to these forms with no deviation. Next, in the stage of ha, once we have disciplined ourselves to acquire the forms and movements, we make innovations. In this process the forms may be broken and discarded. Finally, in ri, we completely depart from the forms, open the door to creative technique, and arrive in a place where we act in accordance with what our heart/mind desires, unhindered while not overstepping laws.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>What I remember is the official translator telling me that it was something like (<em>I really don't remember her words accurately</em>) "first you see; then you don't; then you don't need to". Contextualizing: first (<em>Shu</em>), you would think that everything is simple, you simply follow rules; then (<em>Ha</em>) you realize that things are much bigger then they seem, you can innovate with your knowledge, but you're just scratching the surface, you're overwhelmed; then (<em>Ri</em>), finally, you don't need to see anything, you represent the craft, <em>you are it</em>.</p>

<p>I think this should be some sort of somewhat famous <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengyu" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><em>chengyu</em></a>, but I'm not sure, it didn't seem that familiar to the translator.</p>

<p>So... <strong>could someone please give me the meaning of the inscription and some references on the topic?</strong></p>

<chengyu>
Meaning of a Fan Inscription
# Meaning of a Fan Inscription

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-08-24)

In a trip to Hangzhou, almost 2 years ago, I participated in one (the biggest if I'm not mistaken) of the *Chinese National Amateur Weiqi Championship* as a (Brazilian) foreigner.

During one of the subevents, the organization wanted the foreign participants to play a team game against monks from a monastery. Kind as they almost always (*not on the Weiqi board lol*) are, the monks brought us some souvenirs, the main one being a fan.

On the fan, there is an inscription that, according to the event official translator is difficult to translate. I don't recall the meaning she gave me back then, but it was something related to the Japanese [*Shu Ha Ri*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shuhari) (she didn't mention *Shu Ha Ri*, that's my perception actually). Here is a picture of the fan (now with Kim Jiseok 9p's autograph also):

[![Hangzhou Fan](https://i.sstatic.net/2xpc0.jpg)](https://i.sstatic.net/2xpc0.jpg)

*Shu Ha Ri* would be a succinct description of the cycle of mastery of a craft, usually referring to *Aikido*. On the Wikipedia page:

> It is known that, when we learn or train in something, we pass through the stages of shu, ha, and ri. These stages are explained as follows. In shu, we repeat the forms and discipline ourselves so that our bodies absorb the forms that our forebears created. We remain faithful to these forms with no deviation. Next, in the stage of ha, once we have disciplined ourselves to acquire the forms and movements, we make innovations. In this process the forms may be broken and discarded. Finally, in ri, we completely depart from the forms, open the door to creative technique, and arrive in a place where we act in accordance with what our heart/mind desires, unhindered while not overstepping laws.

What I remember is the official translator telling me that it was something like (*I really don't remember her words accurately*) "first you see; then you don't; then you don't need to". Contextualizing: first (*Shu*), you would think that everything is simple, you simply follow rules; then (*Ha*) you realize that things are much bigger then they seem, you can innovate with your knowledge, but you're just scratching the surface, you're overwhelmed; then (*Ri*), finally, you don't need to see anything, you represent the craft, *you are it*.

I think this should be some sort of somewhat famous [*chengyu*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengyu), but I'm not sure, it didn't seem that familiar to the translator.

So... **could someone please give me the meaning of the inscription and some references on the topic?**

**Tags:** chengyu


---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2019-08-24. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

It is a 棋諺 (Go saying/ common wise words for Go playing).

見棋不是棋 would mean *the hand that's obvious to you is not the hand* --- meaning you need to look beyond the obvious and decide your move with more in-depth analysis.

Simply put: If a move is obvious to you, it would also be obvious to your opponent, therefore, it wouldn't be as effective as a surprise move.

*Shu Ha Ri 守破離 is a martial art saying. The only commonality between 守破離 and 見棋不是棋 is they are both "saying/ common wise word" (口訣).*

Other 棋諺 I remember:

* [左右同形中間有棋](https://kknews.cc/history/8znnv24.html) : refers to "the middle point is the key to connecting two weak groups with the same shape".
* [七死八活](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%83%E6%AD%BB%E5%85%AB%E6%B4%BB/17654330) : "seven dead, eight alive", referring to the minimum number of stones in a row on the side that you need in order to live.
* 白鶴守巢 : "white crane guarding nest" or, as usually translated into English: the *crane's nest*, a specific famous instance of a *snapback*.

*I play Go too, but I am only at SDK level*.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Apparently, my memory got very corrupted. Now that you explained it, it does make more sense and I that's actually what the translator told me back then. But I don't quite understand why your 見棋不是棋 is in a different order with respect to the fan's inscription. Did the fan rephrase it to sound cooler?  
> **username_0**: I'm in a bit of a Go hiatus right now, but maybe we can play someday in the future. I used to be around 3-4D on Tygem, nothing spectacular. They only let me join the championship because they always want foreigners to participate.  
> **username_0**: In your answer, you mentioned *three* other Chinese terms (棋諺, 左右同形中間有棋 and 八生七死). I don't quite know their meaning. Would please you care to clarify/translate them?  
> **username_1**: @Philippe Fanaro See the links I added to 左右同形中間有棋" and "八生七死".  
> **username_1**: 3-4D have to give me 8-9 stones handicap. It won't be fun  
> **username_0**: It depends on the meaning of fun I guess... If it you think that learning is fun, then it would be a lot of fun. But I understand what you mean by that, I had the same experience when I played with professionals in my stay in Asia.  
> **username_0**: With respect to the links... The references are really cool, but I was thinking more about translations of them in *English*. From what I can understand about [左右同形中間有棋](https://kknews.cc/history/8znnv24.html) link, it is referring to what we have translated as *snapback*. As for [七死八活](https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%B8%83%E6%AD%BB%E5%85%AB%E6%B4%BB/17654330), from Google Translate, it seems to refer to the minimum number of stones in a row on the side that you need in order to live (*Seven dead, Eight alive*). Perhaps you have better translations.  
> **username_1**: @Philippe Fanaro 左右同形中間有棋 refers to "the middle point is the key to connecting two weak groups with the same shape "   and 七死八活 is as you described, "the minimum number of stones in a row on the side that you need in order to live"  
> **username_1**: the particular snapback showed on the link is nickname 白鶴守巢 (white crane guarding nest). remember the shape with  a nickname  help new learner to realize it is useless to try to escape  
> **username_0**: Ok, cool. I've added a final edit with the translations on the answer.  
> **username_2**: @PhilippeFanaro The "different order" is because Chinese used to be read from top to bottom then right to left. But Western influence caused modern Chinese to be read from left to right then top to bottom.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 Cool, that's nice to know!  

---

