<p>Most Mandarin varieties of the province of 河南 Henan belong to 中原官话 Central Plains Mandarin, and as such generally exhibit palatalisation of the 见/見 unaspirated velar /k/ series of Middle Chinese into an alveolopalatal /t͡ɕ/ in front of /i/ and /y/. However, unlike Standard Mandarin, a contrast between /t͡ɕ/ and /t͡s/, the so-called 尖团音 (sharp-round consonant) distinction, is maintained.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, although the final may have been perceived as akin to Standard Mandarin 也 /i̯e/, it may be that the final was phonologically /e/, /ɛ/ or /æ/ and thus non-palatalising. Thus, a quick look through the 洛陽方言詞典 yields:</p>
<ul>
<li><p>个别 (個別) would be pronounced /kə piɛ˧˩/ in the speech of 洛阳 Luoyang, relatively distinct from each other; this is not a phonological match. However, one cannot deny the semantic similarity, so maybe it could count as a modern-day irregularity, possibly a loanword from Standard Mandarin?</p>
</li>
<li><p>怪 is pronounced /kuæ˧˩˨/. I cannot find any lexeme along the lines of *怪别. I think this would fit best, phonologically though.</p>
</li>
<li><p>拐 is pronounced /kuæ˥˧/, and carries a meaning defined as 壞 &quot;bad&quot; in the 洛陽方言詞典. But I don't see any lexemes where the second syllable starts with /p-/ after it such as *拐别.</p>
</li>
<li><p>改 is pronounced /kæ˥˧/. However I cannot anything similar to *改别.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p>If we consider this not as a phrase but as two separate lexemes, perhaps we are hearing:</p>
<ul>
<li>怪伯 /kuæ˧˩˨ pæ˧/, &quot;strange uncle&quot;.</li>
<li>拐伯 /kuæ˥˧ pæ˧/, &quot;bad uncle&quot;.</li>
</ul>
<p>Could these fit the context?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-13T23:07:27.817Z
I don't think those could fit, they seem like nouns and "uncle" seems to me like it would make it only applicable to men but I don't believe that is right. 
The usage I hear is normally something like 不愿意? 咋恁gebe!?
河南宝宝
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-13T23:09:44.103Z
I found 各意人 in this list of Henanese phrases: https://www.xyafu.edu.cn/ywb/info/1005/1015.htm, the first character has the same pronunciation and the meaning seems related - annoying, disgusting. So the first character could be 各.
河南宝宝
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-14T20:16:39.540Z
[This link](http://www.jcfyhnz.com/Mob/Detailnews.aspx?nid=3701#:~:text=%E2%97%8F%E6%8B%90%E5%AD%A4%EF%BC%8C%E6%84%8F%E4%B8%BA,%E4%BA%BA%E5%8F%AF%E6%8B%90%E5%AD%A4%E4%BA%86%EF%BC%81) has: 拐孤，意为心眼多、性格不合群，这人可拐孤了！Which may give some credence to「拐」。
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-17T22:14:48.207Z
I asked my MIL and she is not sure of the first character but believes the second is 败. Pronunciation, as close as I can make out, is kɛpɛ.
河南宝宝
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-17T22:54:31.557Z
@河南宝宝 That's very useful data! 拐败 (~ 败坏 in Standard Mandarin) is a good semantic lead.
Michaelyus
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-13T01:40:59.737Z
2024-10-13T01:46:04.860Z
2024-10-13T01:46:04.860Z
Michaelyus
<p>I'm leaving my notes here instead of writing extended comments:</p>
<p>The vowel for 败 should be /æ/. If you think they're the exact same finals then you'd have /kæ pæ/.</p>
<p>I mean it sounds quite similar to Taiwanese (Hokkien?) <a href="https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&amp;wdrst=0&amp;wdqb=%E5%81%87%E6%8E%B0&amp;email=" rel="nofollow noreferrer">假掰</a> gēibāi <code>(Tw) affected; pretentious; to put on a display of histrionics (from Taiwanese, Tai-lo pr. [ké-pai])</code>. It'd be very funny if there was somehow some connection between these topolects. @Michaelyus would def. have more insight than I would on that though. Some TW vocab has become very popular in Mainland due to TV: ㄍㄧㄥ(ging), 龟毛, 机车, etc.</p>
<p>/kæ˥/ would only really lend its self to 该.</p>
<p>该败 - may be a fit?</p>
<hr />
<p>edit: Actually... <a href="https://www.baidu.com/link?url=WQakAvMRLKSPp_vqKZ1u0bVveq_1xBNLt-4-el7onxS9i_Ry0_qoAJXeCmQvS7VzSqfvAXDvPHujNqekZcVSv_&amp;wd=&amp;eqid=dd5d491f0055aef600000006671275dc" rel="nofollow noreferrer">this question on Baidu Zhidao</a> says that it is exactly it:</p>
<blockquote>
<p><strong>Q:</strong> 该败是什么意思<br />
<strong>A:</strong> 呵！“该败”是一个地方的方言河南的，意思就是说懊恼，后悔，该倒霉·</p>
</blockquote>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-18T20:49:16.547Z
It does seem like a potential match, but the meaning is different. I'm not hearing it used to mean 懊恼, 后悔. It was explained to me as 不和气的意思.
河南宝宝
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-18T20:51:54.810Z
I would think purposefully using Hokkien in a Henanese context might itself be sort of like the Pretentious Moi joke in Chinese.
河南宝宝
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-18T14:49:33.960Z
2024-10-18T17:07:23.177Z
2024-10-18T17:07:23.177Z
Mou某
<p>I hear this word gēbe used in Henan dialect a lot:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>这个人有点gēbe</p>
</blockquote>
<p>My understanding is that it means disagreeable or deliberately awkward, not easy to get along with.</p>
<p>Strictly speaking it can't be transcribed in Pinyin as both syllables rhyme with 也, a final which does not occur in Mandarin Chinese after g and h.</p>
<p>How is this written using Chinese characters assuming it can, and how would this be pronounced in Mandarin?</p>
<p><strong>Update</strong>
After asking my MIL who is from Henan, she is fairly certain the second character is 败. Pronunciation-wise it sounds to me like kɛpɛ although there could be other vowel sounds in there that I'm not hearing.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-10T15:30:52.250Z
Can you give a rough character estimation, i.e.: is ge similar to 格 like 格外? or is it similar 该? or 锅? First tone be could only be something like: 玻、菠、拨 ge1 maybe something like: 佮、格、割、搁 or 鸽
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-10T16:42:39.203Z
“… both syllables rhyme with 也.” So I guess writing the pinyin as “giē bie” makes more sense? I can’t find this word in [this list of words in 河南话](https://www.xyafu.edu.cn/ywb/info/1005/1015.htm) but indeed there are some “gie” sounds.
kyc
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-10T18:46:08.357Z
@kyc I don't think that can be correct as 也 is /iɛ/ but there is no /kɛ/ in Henanese, AFAICT.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-10T20:12:37.967Z
@Mou某 I wondered if it could be something like 个别 but definitely the finals are the same for both, and rhyme (to my ear) with 也, but do *not* have the i sound like bie unless it is really really elided. If it's any help it would be from around the 驻马店 area. Definitely nothing like 该 or 锅.
河南宝宝
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-10T21:47:27.173Z
@Mou某 I see. You’re probably right. I don’t know much about Henanese and I was just pointing out that I did find gie in that link.
kyc
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-12T19:36:27.940Z
@kyc I was really referring to OP than you tbh.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-18T14:35:07.300Z
@河南宝宝 The vowel for 败 should be /æ/. If you think they're the exact same finals then you'd have /kæ pæ/. I mean it sounds quite similar to Taiwanese (Hokkien?) [假掰](https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&wdrst=0&wdqb=%E5%81%87%E6%8E%B0&email=) gēibāi `(Tw) affected; pretentious; to put on a display of histrionics (from Taiwanese, Tai-lo pr. [ké-pai])`. It'd be very funny if there was somehow some connection between these topolects. @Michaelyus would def. have more insight than I would on that though. Some TW vocab has become very popular in Mainland due to TV: ging, 龟毛, 机车.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-18T16:13:15.753Z
@batman: could you not just ask next time you hear gebie?
Pedroski
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-18T20:44:50.100Z
@Pedroski I'm definitely not any caped bat superhero but yeah I did ask, it was inconclusive.
河南宝宝
<characters><topolect>
Gebe - how is this Henanese word written in characters and what would its Mandarin pronunciation be?
# Gebe - how is this Henanese word written in characters and what would its Mandarin pronunciation be?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-10-10)

I hear this word gēbe used in Henan dialect a lot:

> 这个人有点gēbe

My understanding is that it means disagreeable or deliberately awkward, not easy to get along with.

Strictly speaking it can't be transcribed in Pinyin as both syllables rhyme with 也, a final which does not occur in Mandarin Chinese after g and h.

How is this written using Chinese characters assuming it can, and how would this be pronounced in Mandarin?

**Update**
After asking my MIL who is from Henan, she is fairly certain the second character is 败. Pronunciation-wise it sounds to me like kɛpɛ although there could be other vowel sounds in there that I'm not hearing.

**Tags:** characters, topolect

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Can you give a rough character estimation, i.e.: is ge similar to 格 like 格外? or is it similar 该? or 锅? First tone be could only be something like: 玻、菠、拨 ge1 maybe something like: 佮、格、割、搁 or 鸽  
> **username_2**: “… both syllables rhyme with 也.” So I guess writing the pinyin as “giē bie” makes more sense? I can’t find this word in [this list of words in 河南话](https://www.xyafu.edu.cn/ywb/info/1005/1015.htm) but indeed there are some “gie” sounds.  
> **username_1**: @username_2 I don't think that can be correct as 也 is /iɛ/ but there is no /kɛ/ in Henanese, AFAICT.  
> **username_0**: @username_1 I wondered if it could be something like 个别 but definitely the finals are the same for both, and rhyme (to my ear) with 也, but do *not* have the i sound like bie unless it is really really elided. If it's any help it would be from around the 驻马店 area. Definitely nothing like 该 or 锅.  
> **username_2**: @username_1 I see. You’re probably right. I don’t know much about Henanese and I was just pointing out that I did find gie in that link.  
> **username_1**: @username_2 I was really referring to OP than you tbh.  
> **username_1**: @username_0 The vowel for 败 should be /æ/. If you think they're the exact same finals then you'd have /kæ pæ/. I mean it sounds quite similar to Taiwanese (Hokkien?) [假掰](https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&wdrst=0&wdqb=%E5%81%87%E6%8E%B0&email=) gēibāi `(Tw) affected; pretentious; to put on a display of histrionics (from Taiwanese, Tai-lo pr. [ké-pai])`. It'd be very funny if there was somehow some connection between these topolects. @username_4 would def. have more insight than I would on that though. Some TW vocab has become very popular in Mainland due to TV: ging, 龟毛, 机车.  
> **username_3**: @batman: could you not just ask next time you hear gebie?  
> **username_0**: @username_3 I'm definitely not any caped bat superhero but yeah I did ask, it was inconclusive.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2024-10-13. Score: 2

Most Mandarin varieties of the province of 河南 Henan belong to 中原官话 Central Plains Mandarin, and as such generally exhibit palatalisation of the 见/見 unaspirated velar /k/ series of Middle Chinese into an alveolopalatal /t͡ɕ/ in front of /i/ and /y/. However, unlike Standard Mandarin, a contrast between /t͡ɕ/ and /t͡s/, the so-called 尖团音 (sharp-round consonant) distinction, is maintained.

Nonetheless, although the final may have been perceived as akin to Standard Mandarin 也 /i̯e/, it may be that the final was phonologically /e/, /ɛ/ or /æ/ and thus non-palatalising. Thus, a quick look through the 洛陽方言詞典 yields:

* 个别 (個別) would be pronounced /kə piɛ˧˩/ in the speech of 洛阳 Luoyang, relatively distinct from each other; this is not a phonological match. However, one cannot deny the semantic similarity, so maybe it could count as a modern-day irregularity, possibly a loanword from Standard Mandarin?
* 怪 is pronounced /kuæ˧˩˨/. I cannot find any lexeme along the lines of \*怪别. I think this would fit best, phonologically though.
* 拐 is pronounced /kuæ˥˧/, and carries a meaning defined as 壞 "bad" in the 洛陽方言詞典. But I don't see any lexemes where the second syllable starts with /p-/ after it such as \*拐别.
* 改 is pronounced /kæ˥˧/. However I cannot anything similar to \*改别.

If we consider this not as a phrase but as two separate lexemes, perhaps we are hearing:

* 怪伯 /kuæ˧˩˨ pæ˧/, "strange uncle".
* 拐伯 /kuæ˥˧ pæ˧/, "bad uncle".

Could these fit the context?

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I don't think those could fit, they seem like nouns and "uncle" seems to me like it would make it only applicable to men but I don't believe that is right.  The usage I hear is normally something like 不愿意? 咋恁gebe!?  
> **username_0**: I found 各意人 in this list of Henanese phrases: https://www.xyafu.edu.cn/ywb/info/1005/1015.htm, the first character has the same pronunciation and the meaning seems related - annoying, disgusting. So the first character could be 各.  
> **username_1**: [This link](http://www.jcfyhnz.com/Mob/Detailnews.aspx?nid=3701#:~:text=%E2%97%8F%E6%8B%90%E5%AD%A4%EF%BC%8C%E6%84%8F%E4%B8%BA,%E4%BA%BA%E5%8F%AF%E6%8B%90%E5%AD%A4%E4%BA%86%EF%BC%81) has: 拐孤，意为心眼多、性格不合群，这人可拐孤了！Which may give some credence to「拐」。  
> **username_0**: I asked my MIL and she is not sure of the first character but believes the second is 败. Pronunciation, as close as I can make out, is kɛpɛ.  
> **username_4**: @username_0 That's very useful data! 拐败 (~ 败坏 in Standard Mandarin) is a good semantic lead.  

---

### Answer by username_1 on 2024-10-18. Score: 1

I'm leaving my notes here instead of writing extended comments:

The vowel for 败 should be /æ/. If you think they're the exact same finals then you'd have /kæ pæ/.

I mean it sounds quite similar to Taiwanese (Hokkien?) [假掰](https://www.mdbg.net/chinese/dictionary?page=worddict&wdrst=0&wdqb=%E5%81%87%E6%8E%B0&email=) gēibāi `(Tw) affected; pretentious; to put on a display of histrionics (from Taiwanese, Tai-lo pr. [ké-pai])`. It'd be very funny if there was somehow some connection between these topolects. @username_4 would def. have more insight than I would on that though. Some TW vocab has become very popular in Mainland due to TV: ㄍㄧㄥ(ging), 龟毛, 机车, etc.

/kæ˥/ would only really lend its self to 该.

该败 - may be a fit?

---

edit: Actually... [this question on Baidu Zhidao](https://www.baidu.com/link?url=WQakAvMRLKSPp_vqKZ1u0bVveq_1xBNLt-4-el7onxS9i_Ry0_qoAJXeCmQvS7VzSqfvAXDvPHujNqekZcVSv_&wd=&eqid=dd5d491f0055aef600000006671275dc) says that it is exactly it:

> **Q:** 该败是什么意思  
> **A:** 呵！“该败”是一个地方的方言河南的，意思就是说懊恼，后悔，该倒霉·

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: It does seem like a potential match, but the meaning is different. I'm not hearing it used to mean 懊恼, 后悔. It was explained to me as 不和气的意思.  
> **username_0**: I would think purposefully using Hokkien in a Henanese context might itself be sort of like the Pretentious Moi joke in Chinese.  

---

