<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Mandarin" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Help:IPA/Mandarin</a> on Wikipedia has x listed like this:</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/no9qs.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/no9qs.png" alt="ipa" /></a></p>
<p><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C9%95" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Wiktionary:ɕ</a> has audio you can listen to too.</p>
<p>This is a bit of a random source but here it is anyway.</p>
<p>《哈尔滨方言词典》[ɕi]</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/omyyx.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/omyyx.png" alt="yup" /></a></p>
<p><a href="http://wordyenglish.com/musing/bopomofo_pinyin.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">WordyEnglish</a>'s <em>Pinyin 拼音, Zhuyin 注音, IPA Comparison</em> also shows:</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/FzDxK.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/FzDxK.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<blockquote>
<p>宣</p>
<p>ɕyɛn</p>
</blockquote>
<p><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%84%92" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Bopomofo letter ㄒ</a> which represents &quot;x&quot; is also exclusively:</p>
<blockquote>
<p>(phoneme) IPA(key): /ɕ/</p>
</blockquote>
<p>From《漢語拼音方案》we can see the following:</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/IufuR.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/IufuR.png" alt="hey" /></a></p>
<p>where x again matches up with zhuyin ㄒ or IPA /ɕ/.</p>
<hr />
<p>Sh on the other hand is listed as:</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/9wDeq.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/9wDeq.png" alt="ʂ" /></a></p>
<p><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CA%82" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Wiktionary:ʂ</a> also has audio you can listen too here.</p>
<p>《哈尔滨方言词典》[ʂɿ]</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/giR0X.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/giR0X.png" alt="yes" /></a></p>
<p>As you can see the two are very close in sound, and are often confused as such by learners.</p>
<p>Probably the biggest difference is tongue positions:</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/1aYXw.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/1aYXw.png" alt="x" /></a></p>
<p>vs.</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/miqZ3.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/miqZ3.png" alt="sh" /></a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:02:42.363Z
This is a post about mandarin, not harbin dialect.
Zuoanqh
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:11:02.870Z
Yes, but it’s the closest example I could find atm. The initials are the same, you can see how they work. IPA is rarely used in Mandarin dictionaries, if I can find one I’ll update accordingly.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:52:33.783Z
Well, the sound sample you provided is the same as the wikipedia page, and in general i no longer trust wikipedia on this issue, which is why i asked this question. I am asking this question as a native speaker, by the way. But thanks for your effort.
Zuoanqh
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T11:11:31.243Z
@Zuoanqh Yes. My point was, though, that the IPA is corroborated in published works. I know it's not a perfect example but it should answer your question.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T11:38:15.943Z
I hope so. letters letters letters
Zuoanqh
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T12:35:56.213Z
@Zuoanqh I edited the answer a little with a bit of additional information, not sure if it's any more convincing.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T13:55:58.233Z
thank you! It would be best if you could provide an authoritative source written by a scholar, for mandarin.
Zuoanqh
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T14:41:33.277Z
@Zuoanqh I added a part of《漢語拼音方案》it's a bit of a roundabout way to get at your answer, but it can be analogized.
Mou某
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T07:38:31.193Z
2018-04-30T14:39:42.437Z
2020-06-17T09:50:11.587Z
Mou某
<p>Every single source I come across on google list the IPA of pinyin x as /ɕ/, or the voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative.</p>

<p>However, the sample sound on Wikipedia is quite distinct from it -- to me (born and raised in Beijing), it sounds more like pinyin sh, rather than x.</p>

<ul>
<li>What is, with sources, the correct IPA for pinyin x?</li>
<li>If it is the voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative, what is, with
sources, the correct pronunciation of it?</li>
</ul>

<p>I managed to find another website, which would be correct according to me, as the pinyin x's pronunciation:
<a href="http://www.internationalphoneticalphabet.org/ipa-sounds/ipa-chart-with-sounds/" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://www.internationalphoneticalphabet.org/ipa-sounds/ipa-chart-with-sounds/</a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T07:35:29.803Z
I think you should forgive the reader, as he may be reading a sound that does not exist in his mother tongue.
fefe
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T07:39:19.303Z
The pronunciation on the website you found should be better than the Wikipedia version. Just click the IPA symbols. (claimer: I am not a linguist, but a native Chinese).
fefe
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:25:02.230Z
You think [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_sibilant.ogg) sounds like pinyin **sh**? I entirely disagree. Pinyin **sh** sounds like [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Voiceless_retroflex_sibilant.ogg).
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:37:18.623Z
@droooze well, it sounds more like sh compared to how x should sound. that's the point.
Zuoanqh
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:40:02.757Z
Do you think [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Zh-x%C4%AB.ogg) sounds like **xī**? Anyway your question says `it sounds more like pinyin sh, rather than x`, which is not the same as `it sounds more like sh compared to how x should sound`. These IPA transcriptions are not for one sound (which is impossible), but for a narrow *range* of sounds. You cannot possibly say that the Wikipedia sample sounds more like `sh` than `x`.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:44:31.120Z
@droooze yes. letters letters letters
Zuoanqh
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:46:37.743Z
@droooze well my english is obviously not good enough, so why don't you tell me the difference in meaning between "it sounds more like pinyin sh, rather than x" and "it sounds more like sh compared to how x should sound".
Zuoanqh
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:48:38.863Z
@droooze Well, it is unfortunate that there is one IPA symbol covers a range so wide, that i would consider to cross two sounds, I guess (i usually find them too narrow). do you know ways to differenciate those two, somehow?
Zuoanqh
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:50:15.023Z
`it sounds more like pinyin sh, rather than x` means that, if you [heard this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_sibilant.ogg) without knowing what it's supposed to be, you'd think that it's trying to say 煞, rather than 下.  `it sounds more like sh compared to how x should sound` means that you would recognise that the sound is 下, but it doesn't sound quite right (as if someone had an accent). I'd accept /ɕ/ as a fine transcription to `x`, as I don't find anything wrong with it, but I'll let people who do find a difference analyse it more carefully.
dROOOze
CC BY-SA 3.0
2018-04-30T09:55:02.300Z
Let us [continue this discussion in chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/76786/discussion-between-zuoanqh-and-droooze).
Zuoanqh
<pronunciation><pinyin><ipa>
The IPA for pinyin x
# The IPA for pinyin x

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-04-30)

Every single source I come across on google list the IPA of pinyin x as /ɕ/, or the voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative.

However, the sample sound on Wikipedia is quite distinct from it -- to me (born and raised in Beijing), it sounds more like pinyin sh, rather than x.

* What is, with sources, the correct IPA for pinyin x?
* If it is the voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative, what is, with
  sources, the correct pronunciation of it?

I managed to find another website, which would be correct according to me, as the pinyin x's pronunciation:
<http://www.internationalphoneticalphabet.org/ipa-sounds/ipa-chart-with-sounds/>

**Tags:** pronunciation, pinyin, ipa

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I think you should forgive the reader, as he may be reading a sound that does not exist in his mother tongue.  
> **username_1**: The pronunciation on the website you found should be better than the Wikipedia version. Just click the IPA symbols. (claimer: I am not a linguist, but a native Chinese).  
> **username_2**: You think [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_sibilant.ogg) sounds like pinyin **sh**? I entirely disagree. Pinyin **sh** sounds like [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b1/Voiceless_retroflex_sibilant.ogg).  
> **username_0**: @username_2 well, it sounds more like sh compared to how x should sound. that's the point.  
> **username_2**: Do you think [this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Zh-x%C4%AB.ogg) sounds like **xī**? Anyway your question says `it sounds more like pinyin sh, rather than x`, which is not the same as `it sounds more like sh compared to how x should sound`. These IPA transcriptions are not for one sound (which is impossible), but for a narrow *range* of sounds. You cannot possibly say that the Wikipedia sample sounds more like `sh` than `x`.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 yes. letters letters letters  
> **username_0**: @username_2 well my english is obviously not good enough, so why don't you tell me the difference in meaning between "it sounds more like pinyin sh, rather than x" and "it sounds more like sh compared to how x should sound".  
> **username_0**: @username_2 Well, it is unfortunate that there is one IPA symbol covers a range so wide, that i would consider to cross two sounds, I guess (i usually find them too narrow). do you know ways to differenciate those two, somehow?  
> **username_2**: `it sounds more like pinyin sh, rather than x` means that, if you [heard this](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0b/Voiceless_alveolo-palatal_sibilant.ogg) without knowing what it's supposed to be, you'd think that it's trying to say 煞, rather than 下.  `it sounds more like sh compared to how x should sound` means that you would recognise that the sound is 下, but it doesn't sound quite right (as if someone had an accent). I'd accept /ɕ/ as a fine transcription to `x`, as I don't find anything wrong with it, but I'll let people who do find a difference analyse it more carefully.  
> **username_0**: Let us [continue this discussion in chat](https://chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/76786/discussion-between-username_0-and-username_2).  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2018-04-30. Score: 2 | Accepted answer

[Help:IPA/Mandarin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA/Mandarin) on Wikipedia has x listed like this:

[![ipa](https://i.sstatic.net/no9qs.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/no9qs.png)

[Wiktionary:ɕ](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C9%95) has audio you can listen to too.

This is a bit of a random source but here it is anyway.

《哈尔滨方言词典》[ɕi]

[![yup](https://i.sstatic.net/omyyx.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/omyyx.png)

[WordyEnglish](http://wordyenglish.com/musing/bopomofo_pinyin.html)'s *Pinyin 拼音, Zhuyin 注音, IPA Comparison* also shows:

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/FzDxK.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/FzDxK.png)

> 宣
>
> ɕyɛn

[Bopomofo letter ㄒ](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%84%92) which represents "x" is also exclusively:

> (phoneme) IPA(key): /ɕ/

From《漢語拼音方案》we can see the following:

[![hey](https://i.sstatic.net/IufuR.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/IufuR.png)

where x again matches up with zhuyin ㄒ or IPA /ɕ/.

---

Sh on the other hand is listed as:

[![ʂ](https://i.sstatic.net/9wDeq.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/9wDeq.png)

[Wiktionary:ʂ](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CA%82) also has audio you can listen too here.

《哈尔滨方言词典》[ʂɿ]

[![yes](https://i.sstatic.net/giR0X.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/giR0X.png)

As you can see the two are very close in sound, and are often confused as such by learners.

Probably the biggest difference is tongue positions:

[![x](https://i.sstatic.net/1aYXw.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/1aYXw.png)

vs.

[![sh](https://i.sstatic.net/miqZ3.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/miqZ3.png)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: This is a post about mandarin, not harbin dialect.  
> **username_3**: Yes, but it’s the closest example I could find atm. The initials are the same, you can see how they work. IPA is rarely used in Mandarin dictionaries, if I can find one I’ll update accordingly.  
> **username_0**: Well, the sound sample you provided is the same as the wikipedia page, and in general i no longer trust wikipedia on this issue, which is why i asked this question. I am asking this question as a native speaker, by the way. But thanks for your effort.  
> **username_3**: @username_0 Yes. My point was, though, that the IPA is corroborated in published works. I know it's not a perfect example but it should answer your question.  
> **username_0**: I hope so. letters letters letters  
> **username_3**: @username_0 I edited the answer a little with a bit of additional information, not sure if it's any more convincing.  
> **username_0**: thank you! It would be best if you could provide an authoritative source written by a scholar, for mandarin.  
> **username_3**: @username_0 I added a part of《漢語拼音方案》it's a bit of a roundabout way to get at your answer, but it can be analogized.  

---

