<p>have a look of this page:</p>

<p><a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E7%8B%80" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=狀</a></p>

<p>狀(u+72c0)﹒犬形也(form, appearance of dog)﹒从犬﹒爿聲(爿 is sound component)</p>

<p>爿(u+723f) is a main component of chinese character:</p>

<p><a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/bronzePiece.php?piece=%E7%88%BF" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/bronzePiece.php?piece=爿</a></p>

<p>況(u+6cc1)﹒寒水也(cold water)﹒从水﹒兄聲(兄 is sound component)﹒</p>

<p><a href="http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E6%B3%81" rel="nofollow noreferrer">http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=況</a></p>

<p>i would think that all your takes is, . . . ,well, try again :)</p>

<p>edited, additional info added.</p>

<p>my brief checking, that the term "狀況" in modern usage; the earliest one is in page 102 of 御製詩四集﹒卷七十九, by emperor 乾隆 of 清 dynasty:</p>

<p><a href="https://archive.org/details/06054264.cn" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://archive.org/details/06054264.cn</a></p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/O5K1G.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/O5K1G.png" alt="page 102 of 御製詩四集﹒卷七十九"></a></p>

<p>the last 4 &amp; 3 characters at the bottom of left most column.</p>

<p>in early 20th century, it's frequency in <a href="https://mmis.hkpl.gov.hk/search-result?p_p_id=search_WAR_mmisportalportlet&amp;p_p_lifecycle=0&amp;p_p_state=normal&amp;_search_WAR_mmisportalportlet_keywords=%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81&amp;_search_WAR_mmisportalportlet_hsf=%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81&amp;p_r_p_-1078056564_actual_q=%28%20verbatim_dc.collection%3A%28%22Old%5C%20HK%5C%20Newspapers%22%29%29%20AND+%28%20%28%20allTermsMandatory%3A%28true%29%20OR+all_dc.title%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+all_dc.creator%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+all_dc.contributor%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+all_dc.subject%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+fulltext%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+all_dc.description%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%29%29&amp;_search_WAR_mmisportalportlet__cnsc1002_WAR_mmisportalportlet_formDate=1465478506595&amp;p_r_p_-1078056564_sort_field=dc.publicationdate_bsort&amp;p_r_p_-1078056564_new_search=true&amp;p_r_p_-1078056564_sort_order=asc&amp;p_r_p_-1078056564_q=%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81&amp;_search_WAR_mmisportalportlet_jspPage=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fcnsc05.jsp" rel="nofollow noreferrer">old hk newspaper</a>:</p>

<pre><code>1900s (8)
1910s (20)
1920s (190)
1930s (505)
1940s (217)
</code></pre>

<p>have fun :)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-09T11:12:02.293Z
I've been there. The data they show upon searching those hanzi is useless to me (data doesn't help).
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-09T11:23:24.290Z
cheer up, that's why we ask here :)
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-09T11:38:35.840Z
sometimes in the comment section on that website one can find a true diamond: one random guy explaines hanzi unconventional and perfect. just as in the case of 也. read 尘飘扬 comment on
http://www.vividict.com/WordInfo.aspx?id=2952
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-09T12:07:11.080Z
with creativity, one can make guess. to find supporting evidence is harder, then, to refute one is the hardest; there're countless "documentations" since oracle script.
水巷孑蠻
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-09T17:25:50.777Z
Ok.ok!!! Enough already! Grab an upvote!. Jesus... :)
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-09T10:40:17.393Z
2016-06-09T13:42:26.633Z
2016-06-09T13:42:26.633Z
水巷孑蠻
<p>Actually Xu Shen's rationalizations are not so much worse than yours:</p>

<p>状狀《說文》犬形也。从犬爿聲。</p>

<p>況况湟《說文》寒水也。从水兄聲。</p>

<p>It has to be admitted that neither explanation is particularly compelling or enlightening for the modern reader. As a learning crutch, how about these:</p>

<p>爿 a stick, a chip, a small piece of wood; I carve it to so it takes the 狀 <em>shape</em> of a 犬 dog.</p>

<p>The 水 water is like my 兄 brother; under these 況 <em>conditions</em> I thrive.</p>

<p>Another way to deal with recalcitrant characters is to just accept oneself's mnemonic ineptitude and to proceed reading and writing. Chances are that the more important items will show up often enough that they will become familiar enough sooner or later. It must be said that some things will never feel at home in the minds of some learners, and still cause a burden in terms of time spent and maybe wasted. Perfection is a noble goal, but determination to attain it without any lacunae is a certain way to failure; sometimes the way to learn something depends on getting over not being able to and going on with whatever comes up next. We cannot always explain, attain, or keep everything. Even Confucius, when discussing why 犬 is used to write <em>dog</em>, once remarked: "the ancient dogs must have looked strange indeed".</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-09T11:13:48.550Z
ipvote for Confucius. ^)
coobit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-06-09T10:22:00.330Z
2016-06-09T10:22:00.330Z
flow
<p>Does any one have good glyph origin theory about those HanZi?</p>

<p>My take:</p>

<ol>
<li>状 - fence + dog inside  ~ then this mutated to a "situation or
disposition" meaning.</li>
<li>状 - remnant of 壮 + dog = huge dog. how this ended in the present
meaning of 状 i don't know.</li>
<li>況 - water + a man with a big mouth (speaking). Meaning of "describing water" or describing a phenomenon. Water and "moreover" meaning play good together but "situation" meaning doesn't click for me.</li>
</ol>

<etymology><glyph-origin>
Glyph origin or any mnemonic for 況 and 状?
# Glyph origin or any mnemonic for 況 and 状?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-06-09)

Does any one have good glyph origin theory about those HanZi?

My take:

1. 状 - fence + dog inside ~ then this mutated to a "situation or
   disposition" meaning.
2. 状 - remnant of 壮 + dog = huge dog. how this ended in the present
   meaning of 状 i don't know.
3. 況 - water + a man with a big mouth (speaking). Meaning of "describing water" or describing a phenomenon. Water and "moreover" meaning play good together but "situation" meaning doesn't click for me.

**Tags:** etymology, glyph-origin


---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2016-06-09. Score: 2

have a look of this page:

[http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=狀](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E7%8B%80)

狀(u+72c0)﹒犬形也(form, appearance of dog)﹒从犬﹒爿聲(爿 is sound component)

爿(u+723f) is a main component of chinese character:

[http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/bronzePiece.php?piece=爿](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/bronzePiece.php?piece=%E7%88%BF)

況(u+6cc1)﹒寒水也(cold water)﹒从水﹒兄聲(兄 is sound component)﹒

[http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=況](http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/lexi-mf/search.php?word=%E6%B3%81)

i would think that all your takes is, . . . ,well, try again :)

edited, additional info added.

my brief checking, that the term "狀況" in modern usage; the earliest one is in page 102 of 御製詩四集﹒卷七十九, by emperor 乾隆 of 清 dynasty:

<https://archive.org/details/06054264.cn>

[![page 102 of 御製詩四集﹒卷七十九](https://i.sstatic.net/O5K1G.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/O5K1G.png)

the last 4 & 3 characters at the bottom of left most column.

in early 20th century, it's frequency in [old hk newspaper](https://mmis.hkpl.gov.hk/search-result?p_p_id=search_WAR_mmisportalportlet&p_p_lifecycle=0&p_p_state=normal&_search_WAR_mmisportalportlet_keywords=%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81&_search_WAR_mmisportalportlet_hsf=%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81&p_r_p_-1078056564_actual_q=%28%20verbatim_dc.collection%3A%28%22Old%5C%20HK%5C%20Newspapers%22%29%29%20AND+%28%20%28%20allTermsMandatory%3A%28true%29%20OR+all_dc.title%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+all_dc.creator%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+all_dc.contributor%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+all_dc.subject%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+fulltext%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%20OR+all_dc.description%3A%28%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81%29%29%29&_search_WAR_mmisportalportlet__cnsc1002_WAR_mmisportalportlet_formDate=1465478506595&p_r_p_-1078056564_sort_field=dc.publicationdate_bsort&p_r_p_-1078056564_new_search=true&p_r_p_-1078056564_sort_order=asc&p_r_p_-1078056564_q=%E7%8B%80%E6%B3%81&_search_WAR_mmisportalportlet_jspPage=%2Fjsp%2Fsearch%2Fcnsc05.jsp):

```
1900s (8)
1910s (20)
1920s (190)
1930s (505)
1940s (217)

```

have fun :)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I've been there. The data they show upon searching those hanzi is useless to me (data doesn't help).  
> **username_1**: cheer up, that's why we ask here :)  
> **username_0**: sometimes in the comment section on that website one can find a true diamond: one random guy explaines hanzi unconventional and perfect. just as in the case of 也. read 尘飘扬 comment on http://www.vividict.com/WordInfo.aspx?id=2952  
> **username_1**: with creativity, one can make guess. to find supporting evidence is harder, then, to refute one is the hardest; there're countless "documentations" since oracle script.  
> **username_0**: Ok.ok!!! Enough already! Grab an upvote!. Jesus... :)  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2016-06-09. Score: 1

Actually Xu Shen's rationalizations are not so much worse than yours:

状狀《說文》犬形也。从犬爿聲。

況况湟《說文》寒水也。从水兄聲。

It has to be admitted that neither explanation is particularly compelling or enlightening for the modern reader. As a learning crutch, how about these:

爿 a stick, a chip, a small piece of wood; I carve it to so it takes the 狀 *shape* of a 犬 dog.

The 水 water is like my 兄 brother; under these 況 *conditions* I thrive.

Another way to deal with recalcitrant characters is to just accept oneself's mnemonic ineptitude and to proceed reading and writing. Chances are that the more important items will show up often enough that they will become familiar enough sooner or later. It must be said that some things will never feel at home in the minds of some learners, and still cause a burden in terms of time spent and maybe wasted. Perfection is a noble goal, but determination to attain it without any lacunae is a certain way to failure; sometimes the way to learn something depends on getting over not being able to and going on with whatever comes up next. We cannot always explain, attain, or keep everything. Even Confucius, when discussing why 犬 is used to write *dog*, once remarked: "the ancient dogs must have looked strange indeed".

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: ipvote for Confucius. ^)  

---

