<p>For example, the different types of language:</p>
<ol>
<li>Pidgin</li>
<li>Creole</li>
<li>Standard natural language</li>
<li>Conlang</li>
</ol>
<p>It seems we could create a stepping-stone map going from pidgin -&gt; &quot;stereotypical natlang&quot; somehow. Somehow there is a process of creating the language, which is very murky / blurry to my mind currently. The easy part is phonetics/phonology, and lexicon. The super hard part is the sentence structures, in my experience so far.</p>
<p><em>Side question, are any &quot;natlangs&quot; (what you'd think of as a natural language traditionally) actually conlangs? Like Sanskrit? Was it made up by an individual or small group? What about Korean or Tibetan, I know those writing systems were supposedly created by one person (same with Armenian if I remember correctly). Or is that just writing systems, not the language constructed?</em></p>
<p>I have been working on a <a href="https://github.com/tunebond/bead" rel="nofollow noreferrer">conlang</a> for at least a year, having mostly developed a lexicon and basic rules for simple noun and verb phrases (seen in that <a href="https://github.com/tunebond/bead" rel="nofollow noreferrer">link's</a> website). I have played a lot with sentence structures, absorbing as much as I can from the <a href="https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/B1_grammar_points" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Chinese Grammar Wiki</a> &quot;sentence patterns&quot; / templates, and my knowledge of English. I don't know Chinese well, it will take me a few years to learn it enough to move it into working/long-term memory.</p>
<p>I am still stuck on mostly mirroring English words and sentence patterns, because that is most familiar. I have made this language maximally isolating/analytic, sort of like Vietnamese/Chinese, where everything is its own word (no conjugations or inflections or anything). Even past/future tenses are words, as is pluralizing, etc..</p>
<p>My question is, how do conlangers iterate on their sentence structure? <em>To me, it seems like you must first start speaking a prototype version of your language, then expanding/refining its sentence structures as you feel what works and what doesn't.</em> This would inherently require memorizing your lexicon of at least a few hundred words, and starting to try and &quot;think&quot; in terms of your language.</p>
<p>Can you paint a picture of how I might go about creating sentence structures and formalizing the grammar, without knowing things in advance, so I can make a bit more progress?</p>
<p>How do natural languages handle this? Or, since no one knows, how might they have evolved to their current state of complexity, in what sort of phases or steps? A conlang might seem to be a microcosm of how a natural language develops, sped up in time and developed by an individual or small group instead of a relatively large community.</p>
<p><strong>How do you figure out sentence structures?</strong></p>
<ol>
<li>Create some arbitrary sentence structures, perhaps based on some other language (like English). Say 10 types of sentences, or 10 features of sentences.</li>
<li>Try and speak and understand what you're saying (as a solo conlanger) using those structures.</li>
<li>When it doesn't make sense, <em>refine</em>? That is where it become super fuzzy to me... How do you refine your sentence structures?</li>
</ol>
<p>I get caught up in the process of testing out sentences using my rules, and not wanting to memorize my language rules without them being finalized. So somehow I need to try and speak, but evolve the rules as I go. Whereas in a natlang in today's world, the rules are pretty much set in stone in advance.</p>
<p>How do you create rules which are flexible and evolving, and <em>not set in stone</em> at first, and still make process in producing an understandable language?</p>
<p>P.S. if you have any books or papers which are relevant here, please add a comment, I would love to take a deeper look.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-01T17:28:10.653Z
I say this on most of your questions, but the answer is really, _really_, to _learn at least one language that is not English_. Then you'll get used to some of the different ways of structuring sentences and how they can vary, instead of just copying what English does.
Draconis
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-08-02T04:14:08.380Z
[This line of research](https://www.public.asu.edu/~gelderen/Bickerton.pdf) (following the Bickerton trail) seems interesting, the transition from "protolanguages" to "true" languages.
Lance Pollard
<grammar><sentence-structure><word-order>
How do you figure out sentence structures in a conlang (or even when natlangs emerge)?
# How do you figure out sentence structures in a conlang (or even when natlangs emerge)?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-08-01)

For example, the different types of language:

1. Pidgin
2. Creole
3. Standard natural language
4. Conlang

It seems we could create a stepping-stone map going from pidgin -> "stereotypical natlang" somehow. Somehow there is a process of creating the language, which is very murky / blurry to my mind currently. The easy part is phonetics/phonology, and lexicon. The super hard part is the sentence structures, in my experience so far.

*Side question, are any "natlangs" (what you'd think of as a natural language traditionally) actually conlangs? Like Sanskrit? Was it made up by an individual or small group? What about Korean or Tibetan, I know those writing systems were supposedly created by one person (same with Armenian if I remember correctly). Or is that just writing systems, not the language constructed?*

I have been working on a [conlang](https://github.com/tunebond/bead) for at least a year, having mostly developed a lexicon and basic rules for simple noun and verb phrases (seen in that [link's](https://github.com/tunebond/bead) website). I have played a lot with sentence structures, absorbing as much as I can from the [Chinese Grammar Wiki](https://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/B1_grammar_points) "sentence patterns" / templates, and my knowledge of English. I don't know Chinese well, it will take me a few years to learn it enough to move it into working/long-term memory.

I am still stuck on mostly mirroring English words and sentence patterns, because that is most familiar. I have made this language maximally isolating/analytic, sort of like Vietnamese/Chinese, where everything is its own word (no conjugations or inflections or anything). Even past/future tenses are words, as is pluralizing, etc..

My question is, how do conlangers iterate on their sentence structure? *To me, it seems like you must first start speaking a prototype version of your language, then expanding/refining its sentence structures as you feel what works and what doesn't.* This would inherently require memorizing your lexicon of at least a few hundred words, and starting to try and "think" in terms of your language.

Can you paint a picture of how I might go about creating sentence structures and formalizing the grammar, without knowing things in advance, so I can make a bit more progress?

How do natural languages handle this? Or, since no one knows, how might they have evolved to their current state of complexity, in what sort of phases or steps? A conlang might seem to be a microcosm of how a natural language develops, sped up in time and developed by an individual or small group instead of a relatively large community.

**How do you figure out sentence structures?**

1. Create some arbitrary sentence structures, perhaps based on some other language (like English). Say 10 types of sentences, or 10 features of sentences.
2. Try and speak and understand what you're saying (as a solo conlanger) using those structures.
3. When it doesn't make sense, *refine*? That is where it become super fuzzy to me... How do you refine your sentence structures?

I get caught up in the process of testing out sentences using my rules, and not wanting to memorize my language rules without them being finalized. So somehow I need to try and speak, but evolve the rules as I go. Whereas in a natlang in today's world, the rules are pretty much set in stone in advance.

How do you create rules which are flexible and evolving, and *not set in stone* at first, and still make process in producing an understandable language?

P.S. if you have any books or papers which are relevant here, please add a comment, I would love to take a deeper look.

**Tags:** grammar, sentence-structure, word-order

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: I say this on most of your questions, but the answer is really, _really_, to _learn at least one language that is not English_. Then you'll get used to some of the different ways of structuring sentences and how they can vary, instead of just copying what English does.  
> **username_0**: [This line of research](https://www.public.asu.edu/~gelderen/Bickerton.pdf) (following the Bickerton trail) seems interesting, the transition from "protolanguages" to "true" languages.  

---

## 0 answers

