<p>Five-hole ground is known under several other names like Rose ground, Point a la Vierge, Virgin ground, fond de Mariage, fond de Flandres, Flanders ground, etc (that made it harder for me to find it). The notable feature is that it looks like a checkers board with every odd field empty. I do understand how this can be confusing when you try transitioning from an &quot;empty&quot; field to a different ground.</p>
<p>However, you can see an example on the Wikipedia page for <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbin_lace_ground" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Bobbin lace ground</a> (for some reason I cannot include the picture directly, so <a href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Rose_ground_2.jpg" rel="nofollow noreferrer">here's the direct link</a>). There's rose ground in the center, cloth ground in the left and half stitch ground in the right. <strong>They use the same amount of pins.</strong></p>
<p>In the other direction, when you want to transition from cloth ground to five-hole ground, you need 2 incoming pairs of bobbins for each square of five-hole ground, so <strong>two rows of cloth ground become one square of five-hole ground</strong>.</p>
<p>What's probably most confusing is that you cannot draw the diagram for this on a simple grid. You need to double the number of dots in your grid and ignore half of them. <strong>The five-hole ground is shifted one dot up compared to the cloth ground</strong>. That means that threads enter and exit the pattern at a 90° angle, as opposed to the usual 45° angle.</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/FFuaI.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/FFuaI.png" alt="lace grid" /></a></p>
<p>Light blue is the rose ground / Flanders ground / five-hole ground /whatever you want to call it.<br />
Light green is cloth ground.<br />
Dark blue is the transition from one ground to the other.</p>
<p>Points A, B, C &amp; D form one square of the five-hole ground.<br />
You have 2 pairs of bobbins each coming into the ground at points A &amp; B, meaning that 4 pairs form one square.<br />
You have 2 pairs of bobbins each leaving the square at points C &amp; D.<br />
Let's assume point Z is the start of cloth ground.</p>
<ol>
<li>At point Z you have one pair of bobbins coming from the left (not visualized here). This is your weaver pair. One pair of bobbins comes in from point C (dark blue). This is a passive pair. Work cloth stitch, place pin at Z and close with cloth stitch.</li>
<li>Continue working cloth stitch to point X. There you take in another passive pair from the left (not visualized).</li>
<li>Continue working cloth stitch to point Y. There you take in the second dark blue pair from the five-hole ground as a passive pair.</li>
<li>Repeat the same steps.</li>
</ol>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-02-06T14:04:44.930Z
2024-02-06T15:11:21.747Z
2024-02-06T15:11:21.747Z
Elmy
<p>I am currently in the process of learning the five-hole ground used in Flanders bobbin lace. However, I can only find information on the ground, not on how to transition from the ground to cloth stitch flowers.</p>
<p>Do you need more pins in the cloth stitch than you use in the ground, and if so, how do you then go back to the ground? Does the cloth stitch need a multiple of four pairs in it, and if not, how do you account for that in the ground?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-03-18T18:35:32.890Z
Not an answer, just a bit of advice: Get a pattern for the kind of lace you want to do and follow the full instructions.
Willeke
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-03-18T18:41:08.473Z
I'm having trouble finding patterns for this kind of lace (most of what I can find is Torchon and Buck's Point) so I'm trying to figure it out on my own until I can find some
kuwaly
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-09-10T08:58:51.257Z
Hi, is this question still of interest to you? I recently learned bobbin lace as well and have some digital copies of old lace books, but I cannot find a "five-hole ground" in any of them. Could you add an image of the ground to your question? What I learned so far is that cloth stitch uses 1 + n pairs, where 1 is the "worker" pair and all others are the "runner" pairs. And I can only connect it cleanly to a 45° angled ground like torchon ground (I have seen examples on a 90° angled ground, but I have no idea how that is worked).
Elmy
<sewing><technique-selection>
How does Flanders ground connect to cloth stitch?
kuwaly
# How does Flanders ground connect to cloth stitch?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2021-03-18)

I am currently in the process of learning the five-hole ground used in Flanders bobbin lace. However, I can only find information on the ground, not on how to transition from the ground to cloth stitch flowers.

Do you need more pins in the cloth stitch than you use in the ground, and if so, how do you then go back to the ground? Does the cloth stitch need a multiple of four pairs in it, and if not, how do you account for that in the ground?

**Tags:** sewing, technique-selection

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Not an answer, just a bit of advice: Get a pattern for the kind of lace you want to do and follow the full instructions.  
> **username_0**: I'm having trouble finding patterns for this kind of lace (most of what I can find is Torchon and Buck's Point) so I'm trying to figure it out on my own until I can find some  
> **username_2**: Hi, is this question still of interest to you? I recently learned bobbin lace as well and have some digital copies of old lace books, but I cannot find a "five-hole ground" in any of them. Could you add an image of the ground to your question? What I learned so far is that cloth stitch uses 1 + n pairs, where 1 is the "worker" pair and all others are the "runner" pairs. And I can only connect it cleanly to a 45° angled ground like torchon ground (I have seen examples on a 90° angled ground, but I have no idea how that is worked).  

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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2024-02-06. Score: 2

Five-hole ground is known under several other names like Rose ground, Point a la Vierge, Virgin ground, fond de Mariage, fond de Flandres, Flanders ground, etc (that made it harder for me to find it). The notable feature is that it looks like a checkers board with every odd field empty. I do understand how this can be confusing when you try transitioning from an "empty" field to a different ground.

However, you can see an example on the Wikipedia page for [Bobbin lace ground](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobbin_lace_ground) (for some reason I cannot include the picture directly, so [here's the direct link](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/00/Rose_ground_2.jpg)). There's rose ground in the center, cloth ground in the left and half stitch ground in the right. **They use the same amount of pins.**

In the other direction, when you want to transition from cloth ground to five-hole ground, you need 2 incoming pairs of bobbins for each square of five-hole ground, so **two rows of cloth ground become one square of five-hole ground**.

What's probably most confusing is that you cannot draw the diagram for this on a simple grid. You need to double the number of dots in your grid and ignore half of them. **The five-hole ground is shifted one dot up compared to the cloth ground**. That means that threads enter and exit the pattern at a 90° angle, as opposed to the usual 45° angle.

[![lace grid](https://i.sstatic.net/FFuaI.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/FFuaI.png)

Light blue is the rose ground / Flanders ground / five-hole ground /whatever you want to call it.  
Light green is cloth ground.  
Dark blue is the transition from one ground to the other.

Points A, B, C & D form one square of the five-hole ground.  
You have 2 pairs of bobbins each coming into the ground at points A & B, meaning that 4 pairs form one square.  
You have 2 pairs of bobbins each leaving the square at points C & D.  
Let's assume point Z is the start of cloth ground.

1. At point Z you have one pair of bobbins coming from the left (not visualized here). This is your weaver pair. One pair of bobbins comes in from point C (dark blue). This is a passive pair. Work cloth stitch, place pin at Z and close with cloth stitch.
2. Continue working cloth stitch to point X. There you take in another passive pair from the left (not visualized).
3. Continue working cloth stitch to point Y. There you take in the second dark blue pair from the five-hole ground as a passive pair.
4. Repeat the same steps.


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