<p>Depending on software to analyze and quantify your subject matter will and is hampering your progress as an artist. You are depending on a scientific interpretation of pixel values to do the job of your eyes and creative mind. There is far more to representing the play of light in a dramatic landscape than just comparing numerical values.</p>
<p>Part of that process can be a tonal study. It is a way to get a feel for the space through identifying the broad areas of light and dark in the subject without getting hung up on the details of the objects that make it up. It lets the artist &quot;see&quot; how the forms fill the space, how they layer and offset each other through their tonal values, see where there is high contrast and low contrast, where there are edges and where there are gradations and how they all interact to form the whole image.</p>
<p>From there the artist can chose how they want to represent it. How dark will the darkest areas be, the lightest. Where will there be subtle changes and where there will be strong contrasts. This is where the artist comes in and does things a computer programmer probably never considered, like to boost the contrast around the lightest areas so they stand out more in the final work.</p>
<p>You can make this tonal study without the use of a computer by simply unfocusing your eyes when looking at the subject matter. The blurring will eliminate the distractions of detail and will flatten the space into areas of light and dark as it strikes your retina. Flattening the space is exactly what happens to put it on paper/canvas, moving from three dimensions to two. Now you can identify the composition of tones which will be the building blocks of the final piece.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-19T17:02:55.757Z
2024-06-19T17:02:55.757Z
rebusB
<p>Many artists advise to focus on values, and even do value studies, before painting, as getting the values right should 'read' better.</p>
<p>As a hobbyist painter (started with acrylics, now moved to watercolour) I appreciate the importance of that, but I still have trouble doing the value study, in particular 'seeing' the areas of midtone.</p>
<p>So I thought I would try out some technical help, namely the 'Filter/Artistic/Index Colours' function in Krita, which -afaict- is designed to do just that: identify areas with different values.</p>
<p>Here is the photograph I started from:</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/cWGnDqwg.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/cWGnDqwg.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p>I can tell that the Sun and its reflection on the lake are light tone, actually even saved whites in watercolour, maybe with just a slightly warmer hue, but still very light, at the edges.<br />
And I can see that the shore and houses on the left are dark tones.<br />
Perhaps I would call midtone the mountains in the background, except the very far ones on the right, which get a bit lost in the haze.
However, parts of the sky are darker than those mountains, which seems counterintuitive. The lake is also giving me plenty of trouble figuring out. The middle part left and right of the Sun reflection looks like a midtone, but darker than some of the sky, and I think that difference is essential to allow the reflections to stand out.<br />
So how can most of the sky and the middle part of the lake both be midtones, if they have a difference in tone?</p>
<p>Here is the effect of applying the filter with the following settings (0 colours in-between):</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/6l6qDyBM.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/6l6qDyBM.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/mLa18cbD.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/mLa18cbD.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p>or with 1 colour in-between:</p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/EDAj6N8Z.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/EDAj6N8Z.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/4aK3JpyL.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/4aK3JpyL.png" alt="enter image description here" /></a></p>
<p><strong>Can this kind of analysis help, or could it mislead me / hamper my progress in the long run?</strong></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-17T04:41:55.210Z
My first impression is that you chose a difficult photo as motive. It has so little color that it looks almost black-and-white and so little contrast in the background that it will probably look like a big, unidentifiable mass of grey, which is actually what the computer shows you. Try a simple still life instead. Either some object standing on a table or something in front of a wall that doesn't have the same color as the table / wall. Or if you insist on landscape paintings, try one in mid-daylight with clouds that look like cotton balls.
Elmy
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-17T17:36:42.643Z
Well that is the trouble with using computer/mathematical analysis of an image when you want to make art from it. The eye/mind is much better at picking out the important areas, even if their color/tone contrast is low. There is still enough there for us to visually sort it out. Try just unfocusing your eye when looking at the image to get the feel for the tonal changes across the image. You do not have to be literal, it is how you interpret what is there that matters. It is the subtle differences  in the mid ground vs the high darks and lights on the edges that make this photo interesting
rebusB
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-17T18:26:09.983Z
@rebusB : thanks! Indeed, some videos I watched pointed out that photos sometimes make darks too dark and/or lights too light, sometimes hiding details that you would see in real life. Very good point as well about interpretation - perhaps I took this idea of the value study too literally. I actually gave a try at making a small watercolour painting out of this. I am OK with the result, although I did not make the water dark enough on the bottom corners. I may give it another shot after rethinking it a bit.
user6376297
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-17T18:37:55.603Z
@Elmy : yes, difficult, because I am trying to push myself and learn new skills. I've done plenty of sunny beaches and prairies; now I wanted to try something different. I was also applying Oliver Pyle's advice: he says you should mostly paint landscapes that mean something to you. I did some still lives, mostly in acrylic, and I didn't really enjoy that. But I agree, still lives are very valuable tools to learn. BTW I wasn't displeased with the lack of contrast here: I was actively looking for something subtler and more muted, for a change. My question was if the proposed analysis could help.
user6376297
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-18T09:59:23.010Z
Let me ask you a question that I think is paramount to the understanding of your question and ultimately any answer that could be written: **What is the purpose of a value study?** What does it mean for you specifically? What do you hope to accomplish or improve by doing a value study? Ideally you should [edit] your question and clarify it there, so other users don't have to study the topic or watch an hour long video.
Elmy
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-18T14:37:18.773Z
@Elmy - was going to ask that as well. To me a value study is to get a feel for the tonal space in the subject, not to pin down the values to be recreated in the drawing/painting. That is, to get an idea of the rhythm of the darks and lights and the overall range of tone, the values one then puts down on paper/canvas are an (personal and essentially arbitrary) interpretation of those general tones.
rebusB
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-18T15:44:02.287Z
please read https://crafts.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-ask to see why you are being down voted. The question as written is too open ended and ultimately opinion based. Hopefully you still got some useful info though. Cheers!
rebusB
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-19T17:11:04.893Z
I wasn't trolling you when I downvoted the question... it starts with a link, considered bad form across all of Stack Exchange, depends on a bit of very specific computer software where other filters/apps might have done what you wanted, and ends with "what do you make of this" which is asking for opinions. I considered a close vote but there is a legit question here so downvoted instead.
rebusB
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-19T18:41:56.420Z
I see. For what it's worth, I edited the question according to your post-downvote comments. It is clear that SE is not the platform where I should ask this kind of questions.
user6376297
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-06-20T07:27:08.763Z
My conclusion remains the same. I can only hope that the content we all took the time to create here may be of use to others as well. A lot of trouble and aggravation would have been avoided if more open communication had been adopted from the beginning.
user6376297
<painting>
Computer-aided value study?
user6376297
# Computer-aided value study?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-06-16)

Many artists advise to focus on values, and even do value studies, before painting, as getting the values right should 'read' better.

As a hobbyist painter (started with acrylics, now moved to watercolour) I appreciate the importance of that, but I still have trouble doing the value study, in particular 'seeing' the areas of midtone.

So I thought I would try out some technical help, namely the 'Filter/Artistic/Index Colours' function in Krita, which -afaict- is designed to do just that: identify areas with different values.

Here is the photograph I started from:

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/cWGnDqwg.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/cWGnDqwg.png)

I can tell that the Sun and its reflection on the lake are light tone, actually even saved whites in watercolour, maybe with just a slightly warmer hue, but still very light, at the edges.  
And I can see that the shore and houses on the left are dark tones.  
Perhaps I would call midtone the mountains in the background, except the very far ones on the right, which get a bit lost in the haze.
However, parts of the sky are darker than those mountains, which seems counterintuitive. The lake is also giving me plenty of trouble figuring out. The middle part left and right of the Sun reflection looks like a midtone, but darker than some of the sky, and I think that difference is essential to allow the reflections to stand out.  
So how can most of the sky and the middle part of the lake both be midtones, if they have a difference in tone?

Here is the effect of applying the filter with the following settings (0 colours in-between):

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/6l6qDyBM.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/6l6qDyBM.png)

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/mLa18cbD.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/mLa18cbD.png)

or with 1 colour in-between:

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/EDAj6N8Z.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/EDAj6N8Z.png)

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/4aK3JpyL.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/4aK3JpyL.png)

**Can this kind of analysis help, or could it mislead me / hamper my progress in the long run?**

**Tags:** painting

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: My first impression is that you chose a difficult photo as motive. It has so little color that it looks almost black-and-white and so little contrast in the background that it will probably look like a big, unidentifiable mass of grey, which is actually what the computer shows you. Try a simple still life instead. Either some object standing on a table or something in front of a wall that doesn't have the same color as the table / wall. Or if you insist on landscape paintings, try one in mid-daylight with clouds that look like cotton balls.  
> **username_2**: Well that is the trouble with using computer/mathematical analysis of an image when you want to make art from it. The eye/mind is much better at picking out the important areas, even if their color/tone contrast is low. There is still enough there for us to visually sort it out. Try just unfocusing your eye when looking at the image to get the feel for the tonal changes across the image. You do not have to be literal, it is how you interpret what is there that matters. It is the subtle differences  in the mid ground vs the high darks and lights on the edges that make this photo interesting  
> **username_0**: @username_2 : thanks! Indeed, some videos I watched pointed out that photos sometimes make darks too dark and/or lights too light, sometimes hiding details that you would see in real life. Very good point as well about interpretation - perhaps I took this idea of the value study too literally. I actually gave a try at making a small watercolour painting out of this. I am OK with the result, although I did not make the water dark enough on the bottom corners. I may give it another shot after rethinking it a bit.  
> **username_0**: @username_1 : yes, difficult, because I am trying to push myself and learn new skills. I've done plenty of sunny beaches and prairies; now I wanted to try something different. I was also applying Oliver Pyle's advice: he says you should mostly paint landscapes that mean something to you. I did some still lives, mostly in acrylic, and I didn't really enjoy that. But I agree, still lives are very valuable tools to learn. BTW I wasn't displeased with the lack of contrast here: I was actively looking for something subtler and more muted, for a change. My question was if the proposed analysis could help.  
> **username_1**: Let me ask you a question that I think is paramount to the understanding of your question and ultimately any answer that could be written: **What is the purpose of a value study?** What does it mean for you specifically? What do you hope to accomplish or improve by doing a value study? Ideally you should [edit] your question and clarify it there, so other users don't have to study the topic or watch an hour long video.  
> **username_2**: @username_1 - was going to ask that as well. To me a value study is to get a feel for the tonal space in the subject, not to pin down the values to be recreated in the drawing/painting. That is, to get an idea of the rhythm of the darks and lights and the overall range of tone, the values one then puts down on paper/canvas are an (personal and essentially arbitrary) interpretation of those general tones.  
> **username_2**: please read https://crafts.stackexchange.com/help/how-to-ask to see why you are being down voted. The question as written is too open ended and ultimately opinion based. Hopefully you still got some useful info though. Cheers!  
> **username_2**: I wasn't trolling you when I downvoted the question... it starts with a link, considered bad form across all of Stack Exchange, depends on a bit of very specific computer software where other filters/apps might have done what you wanted, and ends with "what do you make of this" which is asking for opinions. I considered a close vote but there is a legit question here so downvoted instead.  
> **username_0**: I see. For what it's worth, I edited the question according to your post-downvote comments. It is clear that SE is not the platform where I should ask this kind of questions.  
> **username_0**: My conclusion remains the same. I can only hope that the content we all took the time to create here may be of use to others as well. A lot of trouble and aggravation would have been avoided if more open communication had been adopted from the beginning.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_2 on 2024-06-19. Score: 1

Depending on software to analyze and quantify your subject matter will and is hampering your progress as an artist. You are depending on a scientific interpretation of pixel values to do the job of your eyes and creative mind. There is far more to representing the play of light in a dramatic landscape than just comparing numerical values.

Part of that process can be a tonal study. It is a way to get a feel for the space through identifying the broad areas of light and dark in the subject without getting hung up on the details of the objects that make it up. It lets the artist "see" how the forms fill the space, how they layer and offset each other through their tonal values, see where there is high contrast and low contrast, where there are edges and where there are gradations and how they all interact to form the whole image.

From there the artist can chose how they want to represent it. How dark will the darkest areas be, the lightest. Where will there be subtle changes and where there will be strong contrasts. This is where the artist comes in and does things a computer programmer probably never considered, like to boost the contrast around the lightest areas so they stand out more in the final work.

You can make this tonal study without the use of a computer by simply unfocusing your eyes when looking at the subject matter. The blurring will eliminate the distractions of detail and will flatten the space into areas of light and dark as it strikes your retina. Flattening the space is exactly what happens to put it on paper/canvas, moving from three dimensions to two. Now you can identify the composition of tones which will be the building blocks of the final piece.


---

