<p>I was researching solar insolation and found that solar insolation at the poles over summer is roughly equivalent to several places on earth that have relatively warm summers. Below is a Matlab graph showing the average insolation received by Fairbanks, Chicago, and the North Pole between June 1st - August 31. The only contradictory thing I can think of is that I calculated Solar Insolation, and not Direct insolation. Direct Insolation accounts for the length in the atmosphere that radiation has to travel through before reaching the surface, but attempting to graph it using the equation <a href="https://i.sstatic.net/9HbYT.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/9HbYT.png" alt="Equation" /></a> from <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_insolation" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Wikipedia</a> resulted in the graph labeled &quot;Direct Insolation Example&quot;, which appears to be incorrect. In any case, that effect seems to be relatively minor. The only major difference that I can think of between the summer climate characteristics of the cities and the north pole is that the north pole is oceanic, and thus has to deal with the very high thermal inertia of the very cold water surrounding it, making it unable to have warm summers despite similar solar insolation. In addition, I understand ice has a higher Albedo than land, and thus the actual amount of energy received is lessened. However, how is that fundamentally different than locations with thick snowpack that eventually melts over the summer?</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Climate" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Chicago Avg Summer Temp</a> - 73.3</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairbanks,_Alaska#Climate" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Fairbanks Avg Summer Temp</a> - 60.3</p>
<p><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pole#Climate,_sea_ice_at_North_Pole" rel="nofollow noreferrer">North Pole Avg Summer Temp</a> - 32
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/vz4uo.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/vz4uo.png" alt="" /></a>
<a href="https://i.sstatic.net/qRhHI.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/qRhHI.png" alt="" /></a></p>
<p>Also a few related relevant questions.</p>
<ol>
<li>Why does the North Pole have slightly warmer winters than extremely continental climates like Yakutsk? The difference isn't huge, but it's still odd considering that the poles should be surrounded by ice (Which should act like ground in terms of continentality) in the winter.</li>
</ol>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-08T20:46:40.093Z
Have you considered that the high heat capacity of water (4181 J/kg°C) underneath the ice at the North Pole could account for the slightly warmer winters at the North Pole compared to Yakutsk?
njuffa
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-10T12:16:35.893Z
Yes but if the ice is permanent and 10+ meters deep how is it different than land? Anecdotally, I live on a peninsula jutting into Lake Superior. When the lake freezes over temperatures here are much less moderated and become much colder even though the ice thickness is significantly less than at the North Pole.
SethToast
CC BY-SA 4.0
2023-10-14T14:29:19.440Z
It didn't work out that way at the South Pole.
Spencer
<climate>
Would the North Pole have a continental climate with warm summers if it was surrounded by land?
SethToast
# Would the North Pole have a continental climate with warm summers if it was surrounded by land?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2023-10-07)

I was researching solar insolation and found that solar insolation at the poles over summer is roughly equivalent to several places on earth that have relatively warm summers. Below is a Matlab graph showing the average insolation received by Fairbanks, Chicago, and the North Pole between June 1st - August 31. The only contradictory thing I can think of is that I calculated Solar Insolation, and not Direct insolation. Direct Insolation accounts for the length in the atmosphere that radiation has to travel through before reaching the surface, but attempting to graph it using the equation [![Equation](https://i.sstatic.net/9HbYT.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/9HbYT.png) from [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_insolation) resulted in the graph labeled "Direct Insolation Example", which appears to be incorrect. In any case, that effect seems to be relatively minor. The only major difference that I can think of between the summer climate characteristics of the cities and the north pole is that the north pole is oceanic, and thus has to deal with the very high thermal inertia of the very cold water surrounding it, making it unable to have warm summers despite similar solar insolation. In addition, I understand ice has a higher Albedo than land, and thus the actual amount of energy received is lessened. However, how is that fundamentally different than locations with thick snowpack that eventually melts over the summer?

[Chicago Avg Summer Temp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago#Climate) - 73.3

[Fairbanks Avg Summer Temp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairbanks,_Alaska#Climate) - 60.3

[North Pole Avg Summer Temp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Pole#Climate,_sea_ice_at_North_Pole) - 32
[![](https://i.sstatic.net/vz4uo.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/vz4uo.png)
[![](https://i.sstatic.net/qRhHI.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/qRhHI.png)

Also a few related relevant questions.

1. Why does the North Pole have slightly warmer winters than extremely continental climates like Yakutsk? The difference isn't huge, but it's still odd considering that the poles should be surrounded by ice (Which should act like ground in terms of continentality) in the winter.

**Tags:** climate

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Have you considered that the high heat capacity of water (4181 J/kg°C) underneath the ice at the North Pole could account for the slightly warmer winters at the North Pole compared to Yakutsk?  
> **username_0**: Yes but if the ice is permanent and 10+ meters deep how is it different than land? Anecdotally, I live on a peninsula jutting into Lake Superior. When the lake freezes over temperatures here are much less moderated and become much colder even though the ice thickness is significantly less than at the North Pole.  
> **username_2**: It didn't work out that way at the South Pole.  

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## 0 answers

