<blockquote>
  <p>The jaguar is a close relative of the Asiatic leopard and must have had a common ancestor within the last 5 million years. The South American tapir is obviously closely related to the Malayan tapir and must also have had a common ancestor within he last 5 million years.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>While the first statement is more or less correct, the latter is not. The Asian and American branches of the tapirs split about 25 million years ago.</p>

<p>Regarding migration routes, felines have migrated back and forth between Asia and North America many times in the last eight million years or so. The ancestors of Tapirs apparently migrated back and forth between North America and Europe before 25 million years ago, when the climate was much warmer and the continents had slightly different shapes.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>... is there a possibility that when Africa and Amazonia were closer together, immigration from Africa could have taken place?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Regarding South America, there were very few placental mammals in South America until about 3 million years ago, when the Isthmus of Panama formed. The age of the Isthmus is debated. The sudden appearance of placental mammal fossils about 2.7 million years ago in South America, including jaguars and tapirs, is not. South America's jaguars and tapirs migrated to South America via North America rather than Africa.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T19:28:00.567Z
I don't dispute your separation date of 25 myr for Malayan and Amazonian tapirs, but to look at them one wouldn't think it was that far back. There should be tapir fossils leading from Alaska to Amazonia. Maybe one day they'll be found. But going back 25 myr, Africa and S. America must have been very close. That was about the date Old World monkeys separated from New World monkeys. It's difficult to believe they chose the Alaskan route and then took another 22 myr to reach Amazonia. I don't believe the experts have got these migration routes properly figured out.
Michael Walsby
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T20:23:17.880Z
@ David Hamman Wikipedia gives a date of 40 myr BP for separation of old World and New World monkeys, and says they crossed from Africa to Amazonia via the Atlantic, not via N. America. Another source says the separation date was 35 myr ago, and also says the route was via the Atlantic. If monkeys can do it, why not tapirs? This confusion verifies my assertion that the experts haven't got it properly figured out.
Michael Walsby
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T20:53:30.920Z
@MichaelWalsby - (1) There are lots of tapir / tapir-like fossils from all over North America, (including as far north as Ellesmere Island!), Europe, and Asia dating back to 30 plus million years ago. (2) There are no tapir fossils in South America from before the Isthmus of Panama formed ~3 million years ago.  (3) There are no tapir fossils from Africa, period. South America's tapirs came from North America as a part of the Great American Biotic Interchange.
David Hammen
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T21:27:26.267Z
@ David Hammen  You may well be right. All I am saying is that if monkeys can do it, why not tapirs or leopards? I think you will agree that the Wikipedia article blows the theory that S. America had only marsupials till 3 million years ago right out of the water. Remember that tapirs are rainforest animals and fossils don't preserve well in rainforest conditions. Another thing is that being closely related, tapir fossils and footprints are difficult to distinguish from rhino. I'm still not sure which spoor I saw in Malaya. Tapir-like fossils from N.America could be rhinos.
Michael Walsby
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T19:01:18.307Z
2019-11-21T19:01:18.307Z
David Hammen
<p>The jaguar is a close relative of the Asiatic leopard and must have had a common ancestor within the last 5 million years. The South American tapir is obviously closely related to the Malayan tapir and must also have had a common ancestor within he last 5 million years. How did the leopard and tapir, typically tropical species, get from Asia to South America?</p>

<p>An obvious route would be the land route via the Bering Straits and the southern shore of Alaska which was used by humans about 15,000 years ago when the Ice Age had lowered sea level, but both animals are tropical and it is hard to believe they would have chosen such an icy route. The jaguar and tapir have in any case been separated from their Asiatic relatives for a lot longer than 15,000 years. I am wondering whether they could have arrived via a different route from the one chosen by the earliest human inhabitants of the Americas. Can anyone throw any light on this?</p>

<p>Continental drift played a part in isolating Old World monkeys from South American monkeys and setting Australia adrift carrying only marsupials, so is there a possibility that when Africa and Amazonia were closer together, immigration from Africa could have taken place, bearing in mind that there were times when sea levels were much lower?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T05:46:11.023Z
this question have been asked on our sister site https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/57703/how-did-the-felines-get-to-america before.
trond hansen
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T06:04:47.070Z
some animals do move from one continent to another over the ice too https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/02/fantastic-arctic-fox-animal-walks-3500km-from-norway-to-canada
trond hansen
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T08:40:46.290Z
There have been other ice ages, too.
Erik
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T13:49:46.050Z
The strange thing is that if these two essentially tropical animals came via the northern route, they left no populations behind them as they journeyed south to Amazonia and  Central America. All the other northern immigrants that I know of did, humans being a typical example..
Michael Walsby
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T17:29:38.123Z
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because this question have been asked before on our biology site https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/57703/how-did-the-felines-get-to-america
arkaia
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T18:11:46.067Z
Please  yourself.
Michael Walsby
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T18:36:21.763Z
I don't see how the big cats could have originated separately on two different continents, then passed each other migrating both ways. Another thing difficult to understand is why tropical species like jaguar and tapir would head for the frozen north and leave no populations on their way to mark their progress. Migrating through Africa would make more sense and explain the lack of tapir populations and tapir fossils between Alaska and Amazonia, but I don't know whether that  route would have been possible.
Michael Walsby
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T21:14:10.740Z
@arkaia -- Only part of the question has been answered at the biology SE, and answers to related but still distinct questions at the same site are rarely take as a VTC. At sister sites? No.
David Hammen
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T21:19:59.057Z
@MichaelWalsby - Jaguar fossils in North America are abundant and predate any found in South America. Jaguars went extinct in North America with North American megafauna.
David Hammen
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T21:32:30.800Z
There are live jaguars on the Mexican/USA border, but my theory is that they have migrated through Mexico.
Michael Walsby
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-21T21:58:27.703Z
@ David Hammen Wikipedia supports your claim that there were tapirs in N.America, but says migration was in the opposite direction, America to Asia. That also implies that rhinos originated in N.America, as the two species are fairly closely related. Nevertheless, either Wikipedia is wildly wrong or there were placental mammals in Amazonia long before 3 million years BP.
Michael Walsby
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-22T01:53:56.507Z
@MichaelWalsby - You are reading that wikipedia article incorrectly, and it doesn't help that that wikipedia article is dubious. Whether tapirs originated in North America, Europe, or Asia is highly debated. What is not debated is that the South American tapirs did not originate in South American, nor did the Southeast Asia tapir originate in Southeast Asia. And they didn't originate in Africa, either.
David Hammen
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-22T01:55:24.990Z
@MichaelWalsby - Please search for the terms "Great American Biotic Interchange" and "Great American Interchange".
David Hammen
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-22T09:11:32.797Z
Voting to reopen. This should never have been closed in the first place.
David Hammen
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-11-22T09:54:24.777Z
@ David Hammen  It was an interesting article. You have convinced me that tapirs migrated to S.E. Asia from USA via the northern route. It makes sense that animals would migrate from a cold climate to a warmer one rather than the other way around. As they are closely related, rhinos must have originated on the same continent as tapirs.
Michael Walsby
<plate-tectonics><sea-level><ice-age><evolution>
Migration Routes for Animals from Asia to America
Michael Walsby
# Migration Routes for Animals from Asia to America

(Asked by: username_0 on 2019-11-20)

The jaguar is a close relative of the Asiatic leopard and must have had a common ancestor within the last 5 million years. The South American tapir is obviously closely related to the Malayan tapir and must also have had a common ancestor within he last 5 million years. How did the leopard and tapir, typically tropical species, get from Asia to South America?

An obvious route would be the land route via the Bering Straits and the southern shore of Alaska which was used by humans about 15,000 years ago when the Ice Age had lowered sea level, but both animals are tropical and it is hard to believe they would have chosen such an icy route. The jaguar and tapir have in any case been separated from their Asiatic relatives for a lot longer than 15,000 years. I am wondering whether they could have arrived via a different route from the one chosen by the earliest human inhabitants of the Americas. Can anyone throw any light on this?

Continental drift played a part in isolating Old World monkeys from South American monkeys and setting Australia adrift carrying only marsupials, so is there a possibility that when Africa and Amazonia were closer together, immigration from Africa could have taken place, bearing in mind that there were times when sea levels were much lower?

**Tags:** plate-tectonics, sea-level, ice-age, evolution

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: this question have been asked on our sister site https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/57703/how-did-the-felines-get-to-america before.  
> **username_1**: some animals do move from one continent to another over the ice too https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/02/fantastic-arctic-fox-animal-walks-3500km-from-norway-to-canada  
> **username_2**: There have been other ice ages, too.  
> **username_0**: The strange thing is that if these two essentially tropical animals came via the northern route, they left no populations behind them as they journeyed south to Amazonia and  Central America. All the other northern immigrants that I know of did, humans being a typical example..  
> **username_3**: I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because this question have been asked before on our biology site https://biology.stackexchange.com/questions/57703/how-did-the-felines-get-to-america  
> **username_0**: Please  yourself.  
> **username_0**: I don't see how the big cats could have originated separately on two different continents, then passed each other migrating both ways. Another thing difficult to understand is why tropical species like jaguar and tapir would head for the frozen north and leave no populations on their way to mark their progress. Migrating through Africa would make more sense and explain the lack of tapir populations and tapir fossils between Alaska and Amazonia, but I don't know whether that  route would have been possible.  
> **username_4**: @username_3 -- Only part of the question has been answered at the biology SE, and answers to related but still distinct questions at the same site are rarely take as a VTC. At sister sites? No.  
> **username_4**: @username_0 - Jaguar fossils in North America are abundant and predate any found in South America. Jaguars went extinct in North America with North American megafauna.  
> **username_0**: There are live jaguars on the Mexican/USA border, but my theory is that they have migrated through Mexico.  
> **username_0**: @ username_4 username_4 Wikipedia supports your claim that there were tapirs in N.America, but says migration was in the opposite direction, America to Asia. That also implies that rhinos originated in N.America, as the two species are fairly closely related. Nevertheless, either Wikipedia is wildly wrong or there were placental mammals in Amazonia long before 3 million years BP.  
> **username_4**: @username_0 - You are reading that wikipedia article incorrectly, and it doesn't help that that wikipedia article is dubious. Whether tapirs originated in North America, Europe, or Asia is highly debated. What is not debated is that the South American tapirs did not originate in South American, nor did the Southeast Asia tapir originate in Southeast Asia. And they didn't originate in Africa, either.  
> **username_4**: @username_0 - Please search for the terms "Great American Biotic Interchange" and "Great American Interchange".  
> **username_4**: Voting to reopen. This should never have been closed in the first place.  
> **username_0**: @ username_4 username_4  It was an interesting article. You have convinced me that tapirs migrated to S.E. Asia from USA via the northern route. It makes sense that animals would migrate from a cold climate to a warmer one rather than the other way around. As they are closely related, rhinos must have originated on the same continent as tapirs.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2019-11-21. Score: 2

> The jaguar is a close relative of the Asiatic leopard and must have had a common ancestor within the last 5 million years. The South American tapir is obviously closely related to the Malayan tapir and must also have had a common ancestor within he last 5 million years.

While the first statement is more or less correct, the latter is not. The Asian and American branches of the tapirs split about 25 million years ago.

Regarding migration routes, felines have migrated back and forth between Asia and North America many times in the last eight million years or so. The ancestors of Tapirs apparently migrated back and forth between North America and Europe before 25 million years ago, when the climate was much warmer and the continents had slightly different shapes.

> ... is there a possibility that when Africa and Amazonia were closer together, immigration from Africa could have taken place?

Regarding South America, there were very few placental mammals in South America until about 3 million years ago, when the Isthmus of Panama formed. The age of the Isthmus is debated. The sudden appearance of placental mammal fossils about 2.7 million years ago in South America, including jaguars and tapirs, is not. South America's jaguars and tapirs migrated to South America via North America rather than Africa.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: I don't dispute your separation date of 25 myr for Malayan and Amazonian tapirs, but to look at them one wouldn't think it was that far back. There should be tapir fossils leading from Alaska to Amazonia. Maybe one day they'll be found. But going back 25 myr, Africa and S. America must have been very close. That was about the date Old World monkeys separated from New World monkeys. It's difficult to believe they chose the Alaskan route and then took another 22 myr to reach Amazonia. I don't believe the experts have got these migration routes properly figured out.  
> **username_0**: @ username_4 Hamman Wikipedia gives a date of 40 myr BP for separation of old World and New World monkeys, and says they crossed from Africa to Amazonia via the Atlantic, not via N. America. Another source says the separation date was 35 myr ago, and also says the route was via the Atlantic. If monkeys can do it, why not tapirs? This confusion verifies my assertion that the experts haven't got it properly figured out.  
> **username_4**: @username_0 - (1) There are lots of tapir / tapir-like fossils from all over North America, (including as far north as Ellesmere Island!), Europe, and Asia dating back to 30 plus million years ago. (2) There are no tapir fossils in South America from before the Isthmus of Panama formed ~3 million years ago.  (3) There are no tapir fossils from Africa, period. South America's tapirs came from North America as a part of the Great American Biotic Interchange.  
> **username_0**: @ username_4 username_4  You may well be right. All I am saying is that if monkeys can do it, why not tapirs or leopards? I think you will agree that the Wikipedia article blows the theory that S. America had only marsupials till 3 million years ago right out of the water. Remember that tapirs are rainforest animals and fossils don't preserve well in rainforest conditions. Another thing is that being closely related, tapir fossils and footprints are difficult to distinguish from rhino. I'm still not sure which spoor I saw in Malaya. Tapir-like fossils from N.America could be rhinos.  

---

