<p>Most of our geographic and astronomic terms were developed in pre-history in the northern hemisphere. Even early astronomers noticed that Polaris, the north star, was 'up' in the night sky, so north as 'up' simply became the convention.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-07T23:55:24.487Z
Can it be it has to do with the first (the western world) and the third world?
Deschele Schilder
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-08T11:49:31.250Z
North was "up" way before there was a "Western" and a "Third" world. This is irrelevant. I've seen people claim that the north-up thing is some kind of white supremacist Eurocentric perspective. It's not. It's just the way it has always been.
Gimelist
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-08T12:56:02.753Z
But why has it always been like that? I´m sure that if the place where western thought developed were in the southern hemisphere, we now would have upside-down maps. It seems Natural to me to put the place where the (western kind) maps are made (in the northern hemisphere) on top of the map.
Deschele Schilder
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-07-08T02:43:26.177Z
Maps have been oriented that way since at least ancient Greek times, long before concepts such as "Western" world, first vs third world, or even the fact that the Earth is round were around. Of course map makers put themselves into the middle, simply because that's the part of the world they knew. But that's about it.
Wolfgang Bangerth
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-07T18:16:58.447Z
2016-05-07T18:16:58.447Z
Gordon Stanger
<p>There is no good reason. It's simply a convention that someone started a long time ago and that stuck. Like the question whether an hour is divided into 60 minutes and a minute into 60 seconds.</p>

<p>If you go to Australia, you will find plenty of maps for tourists that show Australia at the top and Europe at the bottom.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-07T18:19:44.630Z
I live in Australia, and I can assure you that almost all maps are oriented with north pointing up. The postcards showing south as up is just a gimmick for parting gullible tourists from their money!
Gordon Stanger
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-08T12:41:36.937Z
But why making that convention? I suppose there wasn´t a dice thrown.
Deschele Schilder
CC BY-SA 4.0
2021-05-10T15:04:16.973Z
You might also mention the even earlier [T-O maps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_and_O_map) which are oriented with East going up as an earlier convention that apparently did not stick.
David Cary
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-07T01:39:51.800Z
2016-05-07T01:39:51.800Z
Wolfgang Bangerth
<p>This question popped up in my head while watching LOTR, in wich a tree says: going south always feels like going down.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-07T19:17:27.313Z
[South-up map orientation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South-up_map_orientation) (found while https://www.google.com/search?q=maps+south+facing+up)
Jan Doggen
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-08T01:44:55.537Z
Just a conjecture here.

Part of it is how we think of the earth rotating. A counter clockwise rotation is considered positive (see right hand rule). Because the Northern hemisphere rotates counterclockwise around the North Pole and the Southern Hemisphere rotates clockwise around the South Pole, it would make sense for the North Pole to be considered as "up" on a map.
BarocliniCplusplus
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-05-08T11:49:42.450Z
That´s an interesting conjecture! But I don´t think that´s the reason because the right and left hand rule weren´t there yet in early times.
Deschele Schilder
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-09-26T22:27:34.733Z
It's interesting that you mention LOTR because I was just reading The Silamrilion, Chapter 11 "Of the Sun and the Moon and the Hiding of Valinor", wherein is written "... and set them to voyage [...] from the West into the East..." This got me thinking, does the solar system have an orientation. All planets orbit the sun "clockwise" when viewed from "above". Is this just a convention? Now Venus and Uranus rotate in the opposite direction to the other planets, so the sun would travel as described above. As for the moon, it also orbits the Earth clockwise. Thus, Middle-Earth could be an ancient
Stuart Steedman
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-09-29T23:02:49.707Z
because LOTR was written by a European.
John
<cartography>
Why is the north considered as up, and south as down?
Deschele Schilder
# Why is the north considered as up, and south as down?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2016-05-07)

This question popped up in my head while watching LOTR, in wich a tree says: going south always feels like going down.

**Tags:** cartography

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: [South-up map orientation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South-up_map_orientation) (found while https://www.google.com/search?q=maps+south+facing+up)  
> **username_2**: Just a conjecture here.  Part of it is how we think of the earth rotating. A counter clockwise rotation is considered positive (see right hand rule). Because the Northern hemisphere rotates counterclockwise around the North Pole and the Southern Hemisphere rotates clockwise around the South Pole, it would make sense for the North Pole to be considered as "up" on a map.  
> **username_0**: That´s an interesting conjecture! But I don´t think that´s the reason because the right and left hand rule weren´t there yet in early times.  
> **username_3**: It's interesting that you mention LOTR because I was just reading The Silamrilion, Chapter 11 "Of the Sun and the Moon and the Hiding of Valinor", wherein is written "... and set them to voyage [...] from the West into the East..." This got me thinking, does the solar system have an orientation. All planets orbit the sun "clockwise" when viewed from "above". Is this just a convention? Now Venus and Uranus rotate in the opposite direction to the other planets, so the sun would travel as described above. As for the moon, it also orbits the Earth clockwise. Thus, Middle-Earth could be an ancient  
> **username_4**: because LOTR was written by a European.  

---

## 2 answers

### Answer by username_5 on 2016-05-07. Score: 5

Most of our geographic and astronomic terms were developed in pre-history in the northern hemisphere. Even early astronomers noticed that Polaris, the north star, was 'up' in the night sky, so north as 'up' simply became the convention.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Can it be it has to do with the first (the western world) and the third world?  
> **username_6**: North was "up" way before there was a "Western" and a "Third" world. This is irrelevant. I've seen people claim that the north-up thing is some kind of white supremacist Eurocentric perspective. It's not. It's just the way it has always been.  
> **username_0**: But why has it always been like that? I´m sure that if the place where western thought developed were in the southern hemisphere, we now would have upside-down maps. It seems Natural to me to put the place where the (western kind) maps are made (in the northern hemisphere) on top of the map.  
> **username_7**: Maps have been oriented that way since at least ancient Greek times, long before concepts such as "Western" world, first vs third world, or even the fact that the Earth is round were around. Of course map makers put themselves into the middle, simply because that's the part of the world they knew. But that's about it.  

---

### Answer by username_7 on 2016-05-07. Score: 4

There is no good reason. It's simply a convention that someone started a long time ago and that stuck. Like the question whether an hour is divided into 60 minutes and a minute into 60 seconds.

If you go to Australia, you will find plenty of maps for tourists that show Australia at the top and Europe at the bottom.

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: I live in Australia, and I can assure you that almost all maps are oriented with north pointing up. The postcards showing south as up is just a gimmick for parting gullible tourists from their money!  
> **username_0**: But why making that convention? I suppose there wasn´t a dice thrown.  
> **username_8**: You might also mention the even earlier [T-O maps](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_and_O_map) which are oriented with East going up as an earlier convention that apparently did not stick.  

---

