<p>You misread the paper where it states</p>
<blockquote>
<p>The coupling between atmospheric and ground thermal processes due to the non-conductive heat transfer processes is highly complex.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>The paper in question does not say that the coupling between atmosphere and ground is not conductive. What it does say is there are non-conductive as well as conductive heat transfer processes in play and that those non-conductive processes (e.g., convection and advection) must be taken into account along with conductive processes. The paper addresses all of those heat transfer mechanisms in explaining permafrost creep and glacier dynamics.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-25T21:32:38.993Z
Non-conductive processes also include ones that are thermodynamic in nature. For example, when water freezes into snow in the atmosphere, and then later thaws again on the ground, you end up with a substantial transfer of energy in one or the other direction due to the latent heat of melting.
Wolfgang Bangerth
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-21T13:23:59.907Z
2024-10-22T08:15:41.293Z
2024-10-22T08:15:41.293Z
David Hammen
<p>While reading about permafrost (<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227604825_Permafrost_Creep_and_Rock_Glacier_Dynamics" rel="nofollow noreferrer">Haeberli, Wilfried, et al. &quot;Permafrost creep and rock glacier dynamics.&quot; Permafrost and periglacial processes 17.3 (2006): 189-214</a>), I have come across the statement that the coupling between the atmospheric and ground thermal process is a non-conductive one. Why is it so? Isnt the air in the atmosphere in contact with the ground?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-21T06:45:21.640Z
Please cite your source.
Stu Smith
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-21T09:59:33.380Z
Haeberli, Wilfried, et al. "Permafrost creep and rock glacier dynamics." Permafrost and periglacial processes 17.3 (2006): 189-214.
kc_nul
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-21T11:37:54.707Z
My guess, without a source (hence only a comment) is that conductivity relies on exchange of particles of different mean kinetic energy: fast particles coming into a 'cold' box will thermalize and hence raise the boxes average KE and hence T. The process can then proceed with the next, adjacent, cold box. That is conduction. The ground-atmosphere interaction cuts into this process: Particles reflect from the surface without thermalizing, and vice versa the solid atoms in the ground get maybe 'bumped' by the air, but the grounds heat capacity is much higher, so no thermal adjustment occurs.
AtmosphericPrisonEscape
<atmosphere><atmosphere-modelling><permafrost>
Why is thermal coupling between atmosphere and ground a non conductive?
kc_nul
# Why is thermal coupling between atmosphere and ground a non conductive?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2024-10-21)

While reading about permafrost ([Haeberli, Wilfried, et al. "Permafrost creep and rock glacier dynamics." Permafrost and periglacial processes 17.3 (2006): 189-214](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227604825_Permafrost_Creep_and_Rock_Glacier_Dynamics)), I have come across the statement that the coupling between the atmospheric and ground thermal process is a non-conductive one. Why is it so? Isnt the air in the atmosphere in contact with the ground?

**Tags:** atmosphere, atmosphere-modelling, permafrost

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Please cite your source.  
> **username_0**: Haeberli, Wilfried, et al. "Permafrost creep and rock glacier dynamics." Permafrost and periglacial processes 17.3 (2006): 189-214.  
> **username_2**: My guess, without a source (hence only a comment) is that conductivity relies on exchange of particles of different mean kinetic energy: fast particles coming into a 'cold' box will thermalize and hence raise the boxes average KE and hence T. The process can then proceed with the next, adjacent, cold box. That is conduction. The ground-atmosphere interaction cuts into this process: Particles reflect from the surface without thermalizing, and vice versa the solid atoms in the ground get maybe 'bumped' by the air, but the grounds heat capacity is much higher, so no thermal adjustment occurs.  

---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2024-10-21. Score: 5 | Accepted answer

You misread the paper where it states

> The coupling between atmospheric and ground thermal processes due to the non-conductive heat transfer processes is highly complex.

The paper in question does not say that the coupling between atmosphere and ground is not conductive. What it does say is there are non-conductive as well as conductive heat transfer processes in play and that those non-conductive processes (e.g., convection and advection) must be taken into account along with conductive processes. The paper addresses all of those heat transfer mechanisms in explaining permafrost creep and glacier dynamics.

> **Comments:**
> **username_4**: Non-conductive processes also include ones that are thermodynamic in nature. For example, when water freezes into snow in the atmosphere, and then later thaws again on the ground, you end up with a substantial transfer of energy in one or the other direction due to the latent heat of melting.  

---

