<p>There is an equation for a model of vertical variation in air temperature </p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/sNzdd.png" rel="nofollow noreferrer"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/sNzdd.png" alt="enter image description here"></a></p>

<p>It unifies concepts from a whole range of sciences. You will need to know the sensible heat flux <em>H</em> from the respective surface (which can be calculated as a result of the energy balance of where you are). Further you can calculate the volumetric specific heat capacity <em>pc(p)</em> of air, which is approximately <em>1.2 kJ/(m³ K)</em> and relate it to the shear velocity or friction velocity of your surface. This is finally related to the logarithmic measure of the term <em>(z-d)/zH</em> where <em>z</em> is the height of which you want to know the temperature and <em>d</em> is the zero plane displacement. <em>zH</em> finally is the Roughness of your surface. </p>

<p>This has to do with the fact, that heat transfer over surfaces usually is turbulent and not just determined by vertical convection. I recommend you to take a look at Campbell &amp; Norman "An Introduction to Environmental Biophysics" (1998). It's a very comprehensive book and treats all the mentioned concepts. </p>

<p>I'm working on a basic computation of this at the moment but it still needs a little time. Once it's done, I'd be very excited to see if it actually is able to model the measured temperatures. I'll keep you updated on how it's going. </p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-18T00:14:56.390Z
2017-01-18T00:14:56.390Z
Florian
<p>I am wondering if it is possible at all to calculate the ground temperature and air temperature at 10m above ground from 2m measurements, or at least using data that a standard weather station provides.</p>

<p>I am aware it is an oversimplification, but I cannot seem to find any resources concerning the matter. Any help would be greatly appreciated!</p>

<p><strong>Edit 2017/01/11:</strong></p>

<p>Thank you for your comments, so here is the reason why we are interested in this:</p>

<p>We have noticed that there are often large differences in air temperature between 2m and 10m height, often of 4° to 5°C. I wanted to know if anyone else was interested in this, or are there any models out there which can be used to calculate temperatures at different heights, so a comparison between modelled and real values can be made.</p>

<p>Why is this interesting at all?</p>

<p>It would be great to have a way to know if in a certain area the temperature will not go below 0°C if we have measurements of temperature, humidity and wind at 2m. But, I presume in these days of cheap temperatures sensors and Arduinos, one can always stick a sensor anywere...</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-05T22:46:26.487Z
What do you want to use the ground temperature for?  Do you mean surface (skin) temperature or sub-surface?  I'd say it's not going to be possible.  One dataset measuring 2m temperature and three different surface temperatures, as well as six sub-soil temperatures, is at http://www.met.reading.ac.uk/weatherdata/Reading_AWS_weather_report.html .  You could start comparing time series of the four to confirm for yourself that it's not possible.
gerrit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-05T23:02:50.087Z
@gerrit the link you provided looks really interesting, especially the charts that link from it. Do you know if there is a resource describing the set up a little more, or research results etc?
Puffin
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-05T23:53:38.037Z
@Puffin You can try http://www.met.reading.ac.uk/weatherdata/ and the links from there.  If you live near Reading, UK you can participate in a tour of the observatory.
gerrit
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-09T14:15:24.447Z
Are we having any information on the nature of the substrate - from a core, or from local observation (even at regional area). Also, what is the climate characterizing the area? I think an answer would be of a better quality knowing these, if you could update your question.
marsisalie
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-12T19:41:12.543Z
@D-Vida - I think I can answer, but I need to know, because as it is written I may interpret the wrong way: so you have a sensor at 2 m underground. And you want to model what temperature you could have at z=10 m deep underground right? And at ground surface too (z=0 m) ? I am asking because Air Temperature, Ground surface temperature and underground at X depth are three different things.
marsisalie
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-01-13T20:36:10.893Z
@Etienne Godin Oh, I was refering to air temperatures at heights _above_ ground: 0m (on the ground), 2m and 10m. Sorry for the misunderstanding!
D Vida
<meteorology><atmosphere><temperature><measurements>
Is there a way to calculate the ground and 10m temperature from standard 2m temperature measurements?
D Vida
# Is there a way to calculate the ground and 10m temperature from standard 2m temperature measurements?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2017-01-05)

I am wondering if it is possible at all to calculate the ground temperature and air temperature at 10m above ground from 2m measurements, or at least using data that a standard weather station provides.

I am aware it is an oversimplification, but I cannot seem to find any resources concerning the matter. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

**Edit 2017/01/11:**

Thank you for your comments, so here is the reason why we are interested in this:

We have noticed that there are often large differences in air temperature between 2m and 10m height, often of 4° to 5°C. I wanted to know if anyone else was interested in this, or are there any models out there which can be used to calculate temperatures at different heights, so a comparison between modelled and real values can be made.

Why is this interesting at all?

It would be great to have a way to know if in a certain area the temperature will not go below 0°C if we have measurements of temperature, humidity and wind at 2m. But, I presume in these days of cheap temperatures sensors and Arduinos, one can always stick a sensor anywere...

**Tags:** meteorology, atmosphere, temperature, measurements

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: What do you want to use the ground temperature for?  Do you mean surface (skin) temperature or sub-surface?  I'd say it's not going to be possible.  One dataset measuring 2m temperature and three different surface temperatures, as well as six sub-soil temperatures, is at http://www.met.reading.ac.uk/weatherdata/Reading_AWS_weather_report.html .  You could start comparing time series of the four to confirm for yourself that it's not possible.  
> **username_2**: @username_1 the link you provided looks really interesting, especially the charts that link from it. Do you know if there is a resource describing the set up a little more, or research results etc?  
> **username_1**: @username_2 You can try http://www.met.reading.ac.uk/weatherdata/ and the links from there.  If you live near Reading, UK you can participate in a tour of the observatory.  
> **username_3**: Are we having any information on the nature of the substrate - from a core, or from local observation (even at regional area). Also, what is the climate characterizing the area? I think an answer would be of a better quality knowing these, if you could update your question.  
> **username_3**: @username_0 - I think I can answer, but I need to know, because as it is written I may interpret the wrong way: so you have a sensor at 2 m underground. And you want to model what temperature you could have at z=10 m deep underground right? And at ground surface too (z=0 m) ? I am asking because Air Temperature, Ground surface temperature and underground at X depth are three different things.  
> **username_0**: @Etienne Godin Oh, I was refering to air temperatures at heights _above_ ground: 0m (on the ground), 2m and 10m. Sorry for the misunderstanding!  

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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2017-01-18. Score: 3

There is an equation for a model of vertical variation in air temperature

[![enter image description here](https://i.sstatic.net/sNzdd.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/sNzdd.png)

It unifies concepts from a whole range of sciences. You will need to know the sensible heat flux *H* from the respective surface (which can be calculated as a result of the energy balance of where you are). Further you can calculate the volumetric specific heat capacity *pc(p)* of air, which is approximately *1.2 kJ/(m³ K)* and relate it to the shear velocity or friction velocity of your surface. This is finally related to the logarithmic measure of the term *(z-d)/zH* where *z* is the height of which you want to know the temperature and *d* is the zero plane displacement. *zH* finally is the Roughness of your surface.

This has to do with the fact, that heat transfer over surfaces usually is turbulent and not just determined by vertical convection. I recommend you to take a look at Campbell & Norman "An Introduction to Environmental Biophysics" (1998). It's a very comprehensive book and treats all the mentioned concepts.

I'm working on a basic computation of this at the moment but it still needs a little time. Once it's done, I'd be very excited to see if it actually is able to model the measured temperatures. I'll keep you updated on how it's going.


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