<p>The Coriolis effect is necessary for FORMATION but NOT for MAINTENANCE of a tropical cyclone. </p>

<p>Once formed, in a full-fledged tropical cyclone of hurricane intensity the wind balance is cyclostrophic, between the pressure-gradient and centrifugal force, with the Coriolis effect negligible by comparison. </p>

<p>This is especially true if the tropical cyclone is small but intense. Thus a full-fledged tropical cyclone of hurricane intensity would encounter NO difficulty if it crossed the equator. </p>

<p>Its circulation would be classified as baric before crossing the equator and antibaric afterwards. Thus a full-fledged tropical cyclone of hurricane intensity will NOT weaken upon crossing the equator due to the reversed Coriolis effect (although it may weaken or strengthen due to other causes). </p>

<p>An antibaric cyclone is fully consistent with the laws of motion. Except on the smallest scales such as dust devils or whirlpools it is difficult to initiate, but once initiated it can be stable. </p>

<p>A tropical cyclone crossing the equator may be the only way that a synoptic-scale antibaric cyclone can be initiated. If a tropical cyclone, especially a large one, crosses the equator and attains appreciable latitude in the opposite hemisphere, say the outer tropics or lower middle latitudes, then the gradient wind approximation rather than the cyclostrophic wind approximation is applicable. </p>

<p>But antibaric gradient wind is still a stable flow. See for example James R. Holton and Gregory J. Hakim, Dynamic Meteorology Fifth Edition Section 3.2.5 on pp. 74-77. </p>

<p>In baric gradient flow the Coriolis and centrifugal forces acting outwards balance the pressure-gradient force acting inwards. </p>

<p>In antibaric flow the centrifugal force acting outwards balances the pressure gradient and Coriolis forces acting inwards. </p>

<p>Thus for a given pressure gradient and radius of curvature of the isobars, the centrifugal force must be stronger, and hence the wind speed higher, for an antibaric tropical cyclone than for a baric one. </p>

<p>This does not mean that a tropical cyclone must intensify if it crosses the equator. Whether baric or anitbaric, its intensity is determined by the available energy or exergy corresponding to the sea-surface and tropopause temperatures (with possible deductions for wind shear, entrainment of dry air, land interaction, etc.) </p>

<p>The First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics require that the pressure gradient and radius of curvature of the isobars must adjust to the exergy supply --- not vice versa. </p>

<p>According to Holton and Hakim, an antibaric (synoptic-scale) hurricane can easily exist if it is centered say only a few degrees from the Equator in the opposite hemisphere, but this becomes more and more difficult and hence more and more unlikely with increasing latitude in the opposite hemisphere. </p>

<p>Whether at some latitude in the opposite hemisphere it becomes absolutely impossible may be an open question. </p>

<p>Small-scale antibaric cyclones (dust devils, whirlpools, waterspouts, and to a lesser extent tornadoes) can easily exist at any any latitude where sufficient exergy exists to generate and maintain them.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-06-19T13:45:27.690Z
You got me there, once-upon-a-time I did quite a bit of TC research, including vortex profiles, and guess that knowledge faded away. That said, based upon [this](http://www.atmos.millersville.edu/~adecaria/ESCI344/esci344_lesson10_TC_structure.pdf) (not a true research reference, but pretty sharp), you're right that there is a cyclostrophic region... though it's only the core that is cyclostrophic (such that there's still trouble to the TC as it crossed)? You sound pretty knowledgeable of TC dynamics, can you edit to include a better reference for folks? But good information/answer, well done.
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-19T04:08:29.850Z
To your new add (about antibaric balance), as you say, v doesn't respond to create the balance... the balance has to be stable to subsist.  And so as Coriolis diminishes when crossing, the flow will just become inward and the storm will weaken... and then as Coriolis increases in the opposite direction, there's still nothing at all to foster an increase in velocity to match.  So it should just stray further and further from any balance (antibaric or otherwise).  It's a fun idea, but it's not like a supercell that generates the vorticity actively to make it happen.
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-19T07:19:43.387Z
While to the best of my knowledge no tropical cyclone has ever crossed the equator, there have been some centered  as close as about 1 degree of latitude from the equator. Thus almost half of the circulation was on the opposite side of the equator and hence antibaric, and operated just fine. We need one tropical cyclone to cross the equator to at least the outer tropics in the opposite hemisphere to provide an experimental test of full antibaricity.
Jack Denur
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-19T16:03:27.447Z
I guess technically one inch across the equator the circulation would be antibaric... but in scale analysis, Coriolis would be negligible. Within a few degrees of the equator, it would basically be straightforward pgf/centrifugal balance, right?  As I understand it, a TC ramps up as pressure falls due to latent heat release... then the isoallobaric wind flows inward, but Coriolis balances a percentage of it, leading to a portion becoming increased rotation. But once across the equator, Coriolis would oppose the existing rotation, so there'd be no way for v to increase...
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-19T16:08:39.687Z
and thus it could only becoming increasingly imbalanced, as the inward flow increases as Coriolis flips, and nothing can act to oppose the inflow.  The only way I could see to ever restore balance would be if somehow the pgf could rapidly drop, faster than the centrifugal, basically discontinuously jumping from baric to antibaric.  Don't see how that'd be supported, and it wouldn't lead to stronger winds but weaker.  Anyways, interesting theoretical discussion, but I just don't see how it'd ever come to fruition.
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-20T04:53:49.287Z
The centrifugal force could compensate. A possible experiment: A whirlpool in a basin on a carousel spinning counterclockwise. The Coriolis force will result in a counterclockwise spinning (baric) whirlpool. Now slow down, stop, and reverse the rotation of the carousel to clockwise. See if the whirlpool can maintain counterclockwise circulation (antibaric whirlpool). If necessary to maintain the whirlpool's gravitational potential energy fuel for sufficient time a pump could be used to return water to the basin.
Jack Denur
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-20T12:45:18.263Z
Not saying that wouldn't be doable... indeed, basically an anticyclonic tornado at that point. But for survival, you'd have to perform the transition at a fast enough rate so that the carousel rotation (ie Coriolis) is comparably negligible. And you'd still get more rapid vortex slowing and breakdown compared to 0 or + inertial rotation. Velocity would never increase to account for the growing inward Cor force... slowing v only further drops $mv^2/r$ more than $fv$. I'm certainly not strong enough to quantify it (related to Rossby #?), but thinking $-df/dt >> |f|$ to cross before breakdown??
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-10-22T23:05:28.453Z
An antibaric whirlpool can certainly exist if the reversed rotation of the carousel is sufficiently slow. As the speed of reversed rotation of the carousel is increased, it likely becomes more and more difficult. At what speed of reversed rotation, if any, it becomes absolutely impossible may be an open question.
Jack Denur
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-01T05:26:39.280Z
In retrospective reading, I feel I'm wrong to throw water on the whole idea, I think I had some misguided thinking that Coriolis was somehow the fuel that created the velocity, perhaps guided by the constant universal trend to mention Coriolis needed for a hurricane, and didn't give enough thought to your first line.  I said "Velocity would never increase to account for the growing inward Cor force"... but as alluded to well, the velocity is the *result* of the energy release creating the pressure changes.  The same energy release would create slower winds without Coriolis to balance...
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-01T05:32:19.840Z
...but energy release could certainly sustain/strengthen a system just as it does a TC in our Hem. I think I somehow got to picturing that there'd be this randomly jump/discontinuity when Coriolis switched, but it's just a gradual change that slowly away some of the bang for energy release buck. I do still think maybe there's something to the thought that distant inflow is important mechanism towards storm maintenance, and Coriolis may be most vital in sustaining that properly. But it's far from proven. You certainly have a great handle on dynamics, and I appreciate you bearing with my errors!
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 4.0
2024-10-05T04:07:02.640Z
Isn't the problem more that TCs are accelerated poleward due to the physics of angular momentum?
Outis Nemo
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-06-18T09:00:32.567Z
2017-12-07T07:42:11.103Z
2017-12-07T07:42:11.103Z
Jack Denur
<p>Here is an archived comment on NASA’s Earth Observatory website, regarding an estimated once in 100-400 years equatorial cyclone – typhoon Varmei in December 2001.</p>

<p><a href="https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/3441/a-rare-cyclone-on-the-equator" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/3441/a-rare-cyclone-on-the-equator</a></p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-08T09:27:33.240Z
Interesting, but nowhere does the article mention that the typhoon crossed the equator
Fred
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-08T10:08:01.537Z
Indeed.  I did come across a brief, non-technical comment by Gary Barnes, Professor of Meteorology at the University of Hawaii which appears to be in line with the general opinion in this forum that yes, a rotating storm could cross the equator, but there appears to be no record of one actually doing so.

https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/ASK/hurricanes.html
Jan V H Luthman
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-08T11:46:07.307Z
[Your answer is in another castle](http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/225370/your-answer-is-in-another-castle-when-is-an-answer-not-an-answer). Please [edit] the essentials into your text.
Jan Doggen
CC BY-SA 4.0
2019-08-08T09:10:03.527Z
2019-08-08T09:10:03.527Z
Jan V H Luthman
<p>Improbable.</p>

<p>It is well known that the Coriolis force is needed to form a hurricane, and the figure of 5<sup>o</sup>N/S as the minimum for formation is widely publicized. You can also find record of tropical storm formation near India as far south as 1.4<sup>o</sup>N.  </p>

<p>The problem of crossing the Equator isn't one of hurricane formation though, it is one of hurricane motion.  Due to Coriolis, a hurricane initially moving parallel to the Equator will start gaining a poleward component to its motion, thus moving it away from the Equator.  But, because this is due to Coriolis, if you could get a storm close enough to the Equator, this effect would not be as strong.  This would be an improbable track, but I'm not willing to call it impossible.  We haven't had satellites all that long, and all we can really say is that it hasn't happened since we've been watching.  </p>

<p>If a storm did cross the equator though, what would it do?  Nothing at first, but as it moved further into the opposite hemisphere, Coriolis would be working against the storm and it would spin down, become disorganized and cease to be a hurricane, probably becoming a remnant low.  </p>

<p>A tropical disturbance <em>has</em> crossed the equator.  One such disturbance occurred June 27, 2008 in the Atlantic basin (south to north) that retained its clockwise motion for some time:</p>

<p><img src="https://i.imgur.com/YbTLvTr.gif" alt="animated satellite loop"></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-06-18T17:08:17.030Z
@DrewP84 Believe the Beta Effect decreases nearer the equator, as I believe it's a function of the latitudinal derivative of Coriolis (which is a sin function, highest derivative at 45 degrees), and also thereby related to storm size (bigger storms = bigger change across the storm)?  Perhaps I've misremembed after these years, and it's linear... but it definitely shouldn't be higher at the equator.
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T15:26:38.613Z
This reflects my understanding as well.  I'm curious about the evolution of the tropical system that formed near 1.4°N.  Do you happen to know the year this occurred? There is a trajectory on the image above of a cyclone south of India that initially moves towards the equator, but quickly turns towards the northwest.  Does the beta-effect increase in a hurricane the closer it gets to the equator, essentially making it more and more difficult to reach the equator?
DrewP84
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T15:52:29.023Z
@DrewP84 That storm was Tropical Storm Vamei in 2001.  There is an incomplete list of other storms at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Equatorial_tropical_cyclones.  My understanding of beta effect and hurricanes makes is that it will be reduced toward the equator.  I'm also adding in an edit above a disturbance that did cross the equator.
casey
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T18:17:27.357Z
Thanks! I noticed that animated loop from June 26-27, 2008. Very interesting! I read some speculation that it could have been a smaller mesolow feature rather than a true cyclone precursor.
DrewP84
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T18:22:38.173Z
@DrewP84 I didn't mean to imply that specific disturbance developed into something more, just that in general a disturbance precedes a cyclone.  I found some anecdotal mentions of another similar disturbance that did later develop into a cyclone, but I could not find any reference that I could actually follow up on, and the noise in googling for storms crossing the equator is enormous (as you might already have noticed).
casey
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T15:09:38.597Z
2016-03-29T13:44:04.137Z
2016-03-29T13:44:04.137Z
casey
<p>No known hurricane has ever crossed the equator.  Hurricanes require the Coriolis force to develop and generally form at least 5° away from the equator since the Coriolis force is zero there. </p>

<p>Are the physics of the earth and tropical systems such that it is impossible for a hurricane to cross the equator after forming, or are the forces working against this occurring so strong that an equator crossing hurricane is an exceedingly rare event we may not witness in 1000+ years?</p>

<p><a href="https://i.sstatic.net/cECCC.png"><img src="https://i.sstatic.net/cECCC.png" alt="Tracks and Intensity of All Tropical Storms"></a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-10-20T05:22:59.707Z
Hurricanes get their angular momentum from the Coriolis force - OK, Coriolis acceleration if you want to be pedantic. So if they are driven towards the equator then they lose their angular momentum, and literally become a load of hot air. So no, they can't cross the equator. In any case the global air circulation tends to push the hurricanes slightly poleward.
Gordon Stanger
CC BY-SA 3.0
2016-10-20T06:48:55.667Z
The acquisition of rotation from Coriolis is a long-term process, and likewise takes a while to dissipate.  Rotating storms cross the equator quite commonly.  They are necessarily weakening due to the negative effect of additional Coriolis in the new Hemisphere, but they can maintain.  TC vortex rotation at any time is from PGF, not Coriolis (which is very small in the tropics, indeed).  It's just that to create the torque (and thus PGF) in the first place, the source is buildup of Coriolis
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-06-09T07:11:01.577Z
Indeed I'm still not absolutely convinced it's possible, as the Coriolis is necessary to counteract PGF such to allow for gradient wind balance. Perhaps a process exists where the Coriolis subsiding slowly transitions it into a stronger cyclostrophic balance? Without Coriolis, any perturbation from orbital flow would be unstable though (even most tornadoes breakdown rather quickly despite significant vorticity continually ingested?) Inward flow=convergence->rising motion->increased PGF could theoretically sustain a vortex a bit longer in inward flow, but also yet further exacerbate the problem
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 3.0
2017-06-09T07:11:27.077Z
An aside on these thoughts: wonder if storms nearer the equator more likely to dissipate during land interactions due to the reduced ability to handle those deviations?  An interesting question that may be worth asking at some point.
JeopardyTempest
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T07:37:35.023Z
From what I understand of the matter it is physically impossible for a hurricane formed on one hemisphere to continue on the other hemisphere as the Coriolis effect (not a force!) is directed in the opposite direction. By crossing the equator the hurricane would stop turning, and only if the conditions are right on the other side of the equator (or should I say Intertropical Convergence Zone?) a new hurricane could form from the released energy of the original hurricane. But as this is mostly (an educated?) guess  I don't think it deserves to be an answer.
hugovdberg
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T14:22:17.390Z
Is it technically incorrect to say 'Coriolis Force' if it is only an apparent force, not a real one? I've generally known the effect to be referred to as a 'force' even if this is a misnomer.
DrewP84
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T14:37:27.950Z
@DrewP84 its a force in our reference frame, and represents a term in our equations of motion in that reference frame so I think of it as correct.  We also say "force" when we are really talking about accelerations (as we divide mass out of everything) so it can't be any worse than that.
casey
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T15:42:20.710Z
[Nice writeup on the subject at the Weather Underground](http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/the-beta-effect#).
DrewP84
CC BY-SA 3.0
2014-04-17T22:27:25.077Z
"The Coriolis effect is not a force" is a pretty similar argument to "there's no such thing as centrifugal force"... And that makes it nearly obligatory for me to link to http://xkcd.com/123/ :-)
Semidiurnal Simon
<meteorology><coriolis><tropical-cyclone><equator>
Impossible or improbable? Hurricane crossing the equator
DrewP84
# Impossible or improbable? Hurricane crossing the equator

(Asked by: username_0 on 2014-04-17)

No known hurricane has ever crossed the equator. Hurricanes require the Coriolis force to develop and generally form at least 5° away from the equator since the Coriolis force is zero there.

Are the physics of the earth and tropical systems such that it is impossible for a hurricane to cross the equator after forming, or are the forces working against this occurring so strong that an equator crossing hurricane is an exceedingly rare event we may not witness in 1000+ years?

[![Tracks and Intensity of All Tropical Storms](https://i.sstatic.net/cECCC.png)](https://i.sstatic.net/cECCC.png)

**Tags:** meteorology, coriolis, tropical-cyclone, equator

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: From what I understand of the matter it is physically impossible for a hurricane formed on one hemisphere to continue on the other hemisphere as the Coriolis effect (not a force!) is directed in the opposite direction. By crossing the equator the hurricane would stop turning, and only if the conditions are right on the other side of the equator (or should I say Intertropical Convergence Zone?) a new hurricane could form from the released energy of the original hurricane. But as this is mostly (an educated?) guess  I don't think it deserves to be an answer.  
> **username_0**: Is it technically incorrect to say 'Coriolis Force' if it is only an apparent force, not a real one? I've generally known the effect to be referred to as a 'force' even if this is a misnomer.  
> **username_4**: @username_0 its a force in our reference frame, and represents a term in our equations of motion in that reference frame so I think of it as correct.  We also say "force" when we are really talking about accelerations (as we divide mass out of everything) so it can't be any worse than that.  
> **username_0**: [Nice writeup on the subject at the Weather Underground](http://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/the-beta-effect#).  
> **username_5**: "The Coriolis effect is not a force" is a pretty similar argument to "there's no such thing as centrifugal force"... And that makes it nearly obligatory for me to link to http://xkcd.com/123/ :-)  
> **username_1**: Hurricanes get their angular momentum from the Coriolis force - OK, Coriolis acceleration if you want to be pedantic. So if they are driven towards the equator then they lose their angular momentum, and literally become a load of hot air. So no, they can't cross the equator. In any case the global air circulation tends to push the hurricanes slightly poleward.  
> **username_2**: The acquisition of rotation from Coriolis is a long-term process, and likewise takes a while to dissipate.  Rotating storms cross the equator quite commonly.  They are necessarily weakening due to the negative effect of additional Coriolis in the new Hemisphere, but they can maintain.  TC vortex rotation at any time is from PGF, not Coriolis (which is very small in the tropics, indeed).  It's just that to create the torque (and thus PGF) in the first place, the source is buildup of Coriolis  
> **username_2**: Indeed I'm still not absolutely convinced it's possible, as the Coriolis is necessary to counteract PGF such to allow for gradient wind balance. Perhaps a process exists where the Coriolis subsiding slowly transitions it into a stronger cyclostrophic balance? Without Coriolis, any perturbation from orbital flow would be unstable though (even most tornadoes breakdown rather quickly despite significant vorticity continually ingested?) Inward flow=convergence->rising motion->increased PGF could theoretically sustain a vortex a bit longer in inward flow, but also yet further exacerbate the problem  
> **username_2**: An aside on these thoughts: wonder if storms nearer the equator more likely to dissipate during land interactions due to the reduced ability to handle those deviations?  An interesting question that may be worth asking at some point.  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2014-04-17. Score: 74 | Accepted answer

Improbable.

It is well known that the Coriolis force is needed to form a hurricane, and the figure of 5oN/S as the minimum for formation is widely publicized. You can also find record of tropical storm formation near India as far south as 1.4oN.

The problem of crossing the Equator isn't one of hurricane formation though, it is one of hurricane motion. Due to Coriolis, a hurricane initially moving parallel to the Equator will start gaining a poleward component to its motion, thus moving it away from the Equator. But, because this is due to Coriolis, if you could get a storm close enough to the Equator, this effect would not be as strong. This would be an improbable track, but I'm not willing to call it impossible. We haven't had satellites all that long, and all we can really say is that it hasn't happened since we've been watching.

If a storm did cross the equator though, what would it do? Nothing at first, but as it moved further into the opposite hemisphere, Coriolis would be working against the storm and it would spin down, become disorganized and cease to be a hurricane, probably becoming a remnant low.

A tropical disturbance *has* crossed the equator. One such disturbance occurred June 27, 2008 in the Atlantic basin (south to north) that retained its clockwise motion for some time:

![animated satellite loop](https://i.imgur.com/YbTLvTr.gif)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: This reflects my understanding as well.  I'm curious about the evolution of the tropical system that formed near 1.4°N.  Do you happen to know the year this occurred? There is a trajectory on the image above of a cyclone south of India that initially moves towards the equator, but quickly turns towards the northwest.  Does the beta-effect increase in a hurricane the closer it gets to the equator, essentially making it more and more difficult to reach the equator?  
> **username_4**: @username_0 That storm was Tropical Storm Vamei in 2001.  There is an incomplete list of other storms at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Equatorial_tropical_cyclones.  My understanding of beta effect and hurricanes makes is that it will be reduced toward the equator.  I'm also adding in an edit above a disturbance that did cross the equator.  
> **username_0**: Thanks! I noticed that animated loop from June 26-27, 2008. Very interesting! I read some speculation that it could have been a smaller mesolow feature rather than a true cyclone precursor.  
> **username_4**: @username_0 I didn't mean to imply that specific disturbance developed into something more, just that in general a disturbance precedes a cyclone.  I found some anecdotal mentions of another similar disturbance that did later develop into a cyclone, but I could not find any reference that I could actually follow up on, and the noise in googling for storms crossing the equator is enormous (as you might already have noticed).  
> **username_2**: @username_0 Believe the Beta Effect decreases nearer the equator, as I believe it's a function of the latitudinal derivative of Coriolis (which is a sin function, highest derivative at 45 degrees), and also thereby related to storm size (bigger storms = bigger change across the storm)?  Perhaps I've misremembed after these years, and it's linear... but it definitely shouldn't be higher at the equator.  

---

### Answer by username_6 on 2017-06-18. Score: 8

The Coriolis effect is necessary for FORMATION but NOT for MAINTENANCE of a tropical cyclone.

Once formed, in a full-fledged tropical cyclone of hurricane intensity the wind balance is cyclostrophic, between the pressure-gradient and centrifugal force, with the Coriolis effect negligible by comparison.

This is especially true if the tropical cyclone is small but intense. Thus a full-fledged tropical cyclone of hurricane intensity would encounter NO difficulty if it crossed the equator.

Its circulation would be classified as baric before crossing the equator and antibaric afterwards. Thus a full-fledged tropical cyclone of hurricane intensity will NOT weaken upon crossing the equator due to the reversed Coriolis effect (although it may weaken or strengthen due to other causes).

An antibaric cyclone is fully consistent with the laws of motion. Except on the smallest scales such as dust devils or whirlpools it is difficult to initiate, but once initiated it can be stable.

A tropical cyclone crossing the equator may be the only way that a synoptic-scale antibaric cyclone can be initiated. If a tropical cyclone, especially a large one, crosses the equator and attains appreciable latitude in the opposite hemisphere, say the outer tropics or lower middle latitudes, then the gradient wind approximation rather than the cyclostrophic wind approximation is applicable.

But antibaric gradient wind is still a stable flow. See for example James R. Holton and Gregory J. Hakim, Dynamic Meteorology Fifth Edition Section 3.2.5 on pp. 74-77.

In baric gradient flow the Coriolis and centrifugal forces acting outwards balance the pressure-gradient force acting inwards.

In antibaric flow the centrifugal force acting outwards balances the pressure gradient and Coriolis forces acting inwards.

Thus for a given pressure gradient and radius of curvature of the isobars, the centrifugal force must be stronger, and hence the wind speed higher, for an antibaric tropical cyclone than for a baric one.

This does not mean that a tropical cyclone must intensify if it crosses the equator. Whether baric or anitbaric, its intensity is determined by the available energy or exergy corresponding to the sea-surface and tropopause temperatures (with possible deductions for wind shear, entrainment of dry air, land interaction, etc.)

The First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics require that the pressure gradient and radius of curvature of the isobars must adjust to the exergy supply --- not vice versa.

According to Holton and Hakim, an antibaric (synoptic-scale) hurricane can easily exist if it is centered say only a few degrees from the Equator in the opposite hemisphere, but this becomes more and more difficult and hence more and more unlikely with increasing latitude in the opposite hemisphere.

Whether at some latitude in the opposite hemisphere it becomes absolutely impossible may be an open question.

Small-scale antibaric cyclones (dust devils, whirlpools, waterspouts, and to a lesser extent tornadoes) can easily exist at any any latitude where sufficient exergy exists to generate and maintain them.

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: You got me there, once-upon-a-time I did quite a bit of TC research, including vortex profiles, and guess that knowledge faded away. That said, based upon [this](http://www.atmos.millersville.edu/~adecaria/ESCI344/esci344_lesson10_TC_structure.pdf) (not a true research reference, but pretty sharp), you're right that there is a cyclostrophic region... though it's only the core that is cyclostrophic (such that there's still trouble to the TC as it crossed)? You sound pretty knowledgeable of TC dynamics, can you edit to include a better reference for folks? But good information/answer, well done.  
> **username_2**: To your new add (about antibaric balance), as you say, v doesn't respond to create the balance... the balance has to be stable to subsist.  And so as Coriolis diminishes when crossing, the flow will just become inward and the storm will weaken... and then as Coriolis increases in the opposite direction, there's still nothing at all to foster an increase in velocity to match.  So it should just stray further and further from any balance (antibaric or otherwise).  It's a fun idea, but it's not like a supercell that generates the vorticity actively to make it happen.  
> **username_6**: While to the best of my knowledge no tropical cyclone has ever crossed the equator, there have been some centered  as close as about 1 degree of latitude from the equator. Thus almost half of the circulation was on the opposite side of the equator and hence antibaric, and operated just fine. We need one tropical cyclone to cross the equator to at least the outer tropics in the opposite hemisphere to provide an experimental test of full antibaricity.  
> **username_2**: I guess technically one inch across the equator the circulation would be antibaric... but in scale analysis, Coriolis would be negligible. Within a few degrees of the equator, it would basically be straightforward pgf/centrifugal balance, right?  As I understand it, a TC ramps up as pressure falls due to latent heat release... then the isoallobaric wind flows inward, but Coriolis balances a percentage of it, leading to a portion becoming increased rotation. But once across the equator, Coriolis would oppose the existing rotation, so there'd be no way for v to increase...  
> **username_2**: and thus it could only becoming increasingly imbalanced, as the inward flow increases as Coriolis flips, and nothing can act to oppose the inflow.  The only way I could see to ever restore balance would be if somehow the pgf could rapidly drop, faster than the centrifugal, basically discontinuously jumping from baric to antibaric.  Don't see how that'd be supported, and it wouldn't lead to stronger winds but weaker.  Anyways, interesting theoretical discussion, but I just don't see how it'd ever come to fruition.  
> **username_6**: The centrifugal force could compensate. A possible experiment: A whirlpool in a basin on a carousel spinning counterclockwise. The Coriolis force will result in a counterclockwise spinning (baric) whirlpool. Now slow down, stop, and reverse the rotation of the carousel to clockwise. See if the whirlpool can maintain counterclockwise circulation (antibaric whirlpool). If necessary to maintain the whirlpool's gravitational potential energy fuel for sufficient time a pump could be used to return water to the basin.  
> **username_2**: Not saying that wouldn't be doable... indeed, basically an anticyclonic tornado at that point. But for survival, you'd have to perform the transition at a fast enough rate so that the carousel rotation (ie Coriolis) is comparably negligible. And you'd still get more rapid vortex slowing and breakdown compared to 0 or + inertial rotation. Velocity would never increase to account for the growing inward Cor force... slowing v only further drops $mv^2/r$ more than $fv$. I'm certainly not strong enough to quantify it (related to Rossby #?), but thinking $-df/dt >> |f|$ to cross before breakdown??  
> **username_6**: An antibaric whirlpool can certainly exist if the reversed rotation of the carousel is sufficiently slow. As the speed of reversed rotation of the carousel is increased, it likely becomes more and more difficult. At what speed of reversed rotation, if any, it becomes absolutely impossible may be an open question.  
> **username_2**: In retrospective reading, I feel I'm wrong to throw water on the whole idea, I think I had some misguided thinking that Coriolis was somehow the fuel that created the velocity, perhaps guided by the constant universal trend to mention Coriolis needed for a hurricane, and didn't give enough thought to your first line.  I said "Velocity would never increase to account for the growing inward Cor force"... but as alluded to well, the velocity is the *result* of the energy release creating the pressure changes.  The same energy release would create slower winds without Coriolis to balance...  
> **username_2**: ...but energy release could certainly sustain/strengthen a system just as it does a TC in our Hem. I think I somehow got to picturing that there'd be this randomly jump/discontinuity when Coriolis switched, but it's just a gradual change that slowly away some of the bang for energy release buck. I do still think maybe there's something to the thought that distant inflow is important mechanism towards storm maintenance, and Coriolis may be most vital in sustaining that properly. But it's far from proven. You certainly have a great handle on dynamics, and I appreciate you bearing with my errors!  
> **username_7**: Isn't the problem more that TCs are accelerated poleward due to the physics of angular momentum?  

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### Answer by username_8 on 2019-08-08. Score: -1

Here is an archived comment on NASA’s Earth Observatory website, regarding an estimated once in 100-400 years equatorial cyclone – typhoon Varmei in December 2001.

<https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/3441/a-rare-cyclone-on-the-equator>

> **Comments:**
> **username_9**: Interesting, but nowhere does the article mention that the typhoon crossed the equator  
> **username_8**: Indeed.  I did come across a brief, non-technical comment by Gary Barnes, Professor of Meteorology at the University of Hawaii which appears to be in line with the general opinion in this forum that yes, a rotating storm could cross the equator, but there appears to be no record of one actually doing so.  https://www.soest.hawaii.edu/GG/ASK/hurricanes.html  
> **username_10**: [Your answer is in another castle](http://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/225370/your-answer-is-in-another-castle-when-is-an-answer-not-an-answer). Please [edit] the essentials into your text.  

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