... something that has to be improved. it still-

S-AH1-M TH-IH0-NG DH-AE1-T HH-AE1-Z T-UW1 B-IY1 IH0-M P-R-UW1-V D-IH1-T-S T-IH1-L


... says that it's not exclusively in the business of making profits.

S-EH1-Z DH-AE1 T-IH1-T S-N-AA1 T-IH0-K-S K-L-UW1 S-IH0 V-L-IY0 IH0-N DH-AH0 B-IH1 Z-N-AH0 S-AH1 V-M-EY1 K-IH0-NG P-R-AA1 F-IH0-T-S


but i suspect that this new corporate form will-

B-AH1 T-AY1 S-AH0-S P-EH1-K-T DH-AE1-T DH-IH1 S-N-UW1 K-AO1-R P-ER0 AH0-T F-AO1-R M-W-IH1-L


... be important, and that even people who are interested in investing-

B-IY1 IH0-M P-AO1-R T-AH0-N T-AH0-N-D DH-AE1 T-IY1 V-IH0-N P-IY1 P-AH0-L HH-UW1 AA1 R-IH1-N T-R-AH0-S T-AH0 D-IH0 N-IH0-N V-EH1-S T-IH0-NG


in terms of an entity, is it legally different from a regular corporation?right.okay. huh. interesting.the law-

IH0-N T-ER1-M Z-AH1 V-AE1 N-EH1-N T-AH0 T-IY0 IH1 Z-IH1 T-L-IY1 G-AH0 L-IY0 D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N-T F-R-AH1 M-AH0 R-EH1 G-Y-AH0 L-ER0 K-AO2-R P-ER0 AH0 T-AH0 K-AA1 NG-W-AH0-L HH-AH1 IH2-N T-ER0 IH0-S T-EH1 CH-IH0 NG-L-AO1


... in the united states has-

IH0-N DH-AH0 Y-UW0 N-AY1 T-AH0-D-S T-EY1-T-S HH-AE1-Z


... imposed a duty of loyalty to the board of directors of a company, loyalty to the shareholders.

IH0-M P-OW1-Z D-AH0 D-UW1 T-IY0 AH1 V-L-OY1 AH0-L T-IY0 T-UW1 DH-AH0 B-AO1-R D-AH1-V D-ER0 EH1-K T-ER0 Z-AH1 V-AH0 K-AH1-M P-AH0 N-IY0 L-OY1 AH0-L T-IY0 T-UW1 DH-AH0 SH-EH1-R HH-OW2-L D-ER0-Z


... your book, what would you want it to be?

Y-AO1-R B-UH1 K-W-AH1 T-W-UH1 D-Y-UW1 W-AA1-N T-IH1-T T-UW1 B-IY1


but what i'm saying is there's an element of self-reliance and an element of everyone's on the lookout for how to make a better society-

B-AH1 T-W-AH1 T-IH1-M S-EY1 IH0 NG-IH1-Z DH-EH1-R Z-AE1 N-EH1 L-AH0 M-AH0-N T-AH1-V S-EH2-L F-R-IY1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N D-AE1 N-EH1 L-AH0 M-AH0-N T-AH1 V-EH1 V-R-IY0 OW2 N-IH0 S-AA1-N DH-AH0 L-UH1 K-AW2-T F-AO1-R HH-AW1 T-UW1 M-EY1 K-AH0 B-EH1 T-ER0 S-AH0 S-AY1 AH0 T-IY0


... new capabilities in search. but i think that people with-

N-UW1 K-EY2 P-AH0 B-IH1 L-AH0 T-IY0 Z-IH0-N S-ER1-CH B-AH1 T-AY1 TH-IH1-NG-K DH-AE1-T P-IY1 P-AH0 L-W-IH1-DH


... this, the world is never going to be perfect-

DH-IH1-S DH-AH0 W-ER1-L D-IH1 Z-N-EH1 V-ER0 G-OW1 IH0-NG T-UW1 B-IY1 P-ER1 F-IH2-K-T


... but i think that people will be able to find their purposes.

B-AH1 T-AY1 TH-IH1-NG-K DH-AE1-T P-IY1 P-AH0 L-W-IH1-L B-IY1 EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 F-AY1-N-D DH-EH1-R P-ER1 P-AH0 S-AH0-Z


they'll find fulfillment of their deepest purposes better. it's-

TH-EY1-L F-AY1-N-D F-UH0-L F-IH1-L M-AH0-N T-AH1-V DH-EH1-R D-IY1 P-AH0-S-T P-ER1 P-AH0 S-AH0-Z B-EH1 T-ER0 IH1-T-S


... not about making money. money is only to be spent for some purpose.

N-AA1 T-AH0 B-AW1 T-M-EY1 K-IH0-NG M-AH1 N-IY0 M-AH1 N-IY0 IH1 Z-OW1 N-L-IY0 T-UW1 B-IY1-S P-EH1-N-T F-AO1-R S-AH1-M P-ER1 P-AH0-S


i think what i want my students and anyone who reads this book is to come into business or-

AY1 TH-IH1-NG K-W-AH1 T-AY1 W-AA1-N T-M-AY1-S T-UW1 D-AH0-N-T S-AH0-N D-EH1 N-IY0 W-AH2-N HH-UW1 R-IY1-D-Z DH-IH1-S B-UH1 K-IH1-Z T-UW1 K-AH1 M-IH0-N T-UW1 B-IH1 Z-N-AH0 S-AO1-R


... finance with a high-minded purpose-

F-AH0 N-AE1-N S-W-IH1 DH-AH0 HH-AY1 M-IH0-N D-IH0-D P-ER1 P-AH0-S


... that, ultimately, all of this driving is aimed at.

DH-AE1 T-AH1-L T-AH0 M-AH0 T-L-IY0 AO1 L-AH1-V DH-IH1-S D-R-AY1 V-IH0 NG-IH1 Z-EY1-M D-AE1-T


... report made possible through the funding from the whitney and betty macmillan center for international and area studies at yale.

R-IY0 P-AO1-R T-M-EY1-D P-AA1 S-AH0 B-AH0-L TH-R-UW1 DH-AH0 F-AH1-N D-IH0-NG F-R-AH1-M DH-AH0 W-IH1 T-N-IY0 AH0-N-D B-EH1 T-IY0 M-AH0 K-M-IH1 L-AH0-N S-EH1-N T-ER0 F-AO1 R-IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0 L-AH0-N D-EH1 R-IY0 AH0-S T-AH1 D-IY0 Z-AE1 T-Y-EY1-L


... millan center. professor clark's areas of research explore issues related to religious nationalism, legal-

M-IH1 L-AH0-N S-EH1-N T-ER0 P-R-AH0 F-EH1 S-ER0 K-L-AA1-R-K S-EH1 R-IY0 AH0 Z-AH1 V-R-IY0 S-ER1 CH-IH0-K-S P-L-AO1 R-IH1 SH-UW0 Z-R-IH0 L-EY1 T-IH0-D T-UW1 R-IH0 L-IH1 JH-AH0 S-N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0 L-IH2 Z-AH0 M-L-IY1 G-AH0-L


... institutions, international law, the interface between culture and power and its relationship to the modernity of race and late capitalist-

IH2-N-S T-IH0 T-UW1 SH-AH0-N Z-IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L L-AO1 DH-AH0 IH1-N T-ER0 F-EY2-S B-IH0 T-W-IY1-N K-AH1-L CH-ER0 AH0-N-D P-AW1 ER0 AH0-N D-IH1-T S-R-IY0 L-EY1 SH-AH0-N SH-IH2-P T-UW1 DH-AH0 M-AA0 D-ER1 N-AH0 T-IY0 AH1 V-R-EY1 S-AH0-N D-L-EY1-T K-AE1 P-AH0 T-AH0 L-AH0-S-T


... religious and legal movements, and the related production of knowledge and power, including the-

R-IH0 L-IH1 JH-AH0 S-AH0-N D-L-IY1 G-AH0-L M-UW1 V-M-AH0-N-T S-AH0-N-D DH-AH0 R-IH0 L-EY1 T-IH0-D P-R-AH0 D-AH1-K SH-AH0 N-AH1 V-N-AA1 L-AH0 JH-AH0-N-D P-AW1 ER0 IH0-N K-L-UW1 D-IH0-NG DH-AH0


... [inaudible 00:05:53], the international criminal court, and the challenge of legal-

IH0 N-AO1 D-AH0 B-AH0-L Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z F-AY1 V-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 TH-R-IY1 S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z DH-AH0 IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L K-R-IH1 M-AH0 N-AH0-L K-AO1-R T-AH0-N-D DH-AH0 CH-AE1 L-AH0-N JH-AH1 V-L-IY1 G-AH0-L


please tell us about the premise of your book.

P-L-IY1-Z T-EH1 L-AH1 S-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 P-R-EH1 M-IH0 S-AH1 V-Y-AO1-R B-UH1-K


... and thus the title, fictions of justice.

AH0-N-D DH-AH1-S DH-AH0 T-AY1 T-AH0-L F-IH1-K SH-AH0-N Z-AH1-V JH-AH1-S T-AH0-S


... justice has been done, et cetera. it-

JH-AH1-S T-AH0-S HH-AE1-Z B-IH1-N D-AH1 N-EH1-T S-EH1 T-ER0 AH0 IH1-T


... is transnational and national. i examine an-

IH1-Z T-R-AE0-N S-N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0 L-AH0-N D-N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0 L-AY1 IH0-G Z-AE1 M-IH0 N-AE1-N


... court, the formation of the court, as well as the contestations related to the-

K-AO1-R-T DH-AH0 F-AO0-R M-EY1 SH-AH0 N-AH1-V DH-AH0 K-AO1-R T-AE1 Z-W-EH1 L-AE1-Z DH-AH0 K-AA2-N T-AH0-T S-EY1 SH-AH0-N Z-R-IH0 L-EY1 T-IH0-D T-UW1 DH-AH0


the icc is known to most as an independent international-

DH-AH0 IY1 K-IH1 Z-N-OW1-N T-UW1 M-OW1-S T-AE1 Z-AE1 N-IH2-N D-IH0 P-EH1-N D-AH0-N T-IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L


... judiciary, so it has the teeth of a court, as one-

JH-UW0 D-IH1 SH-IY0 EH2 R-IY0 S-OW1 IH1-T HH-AE1-Z DH-AH0 T-IY1 TH-AH1 V-AH0 K-AO1-R T-AE1 Z-W-AH1-N


and so in many ways-


... followed the cases more than followed my own research areas.okay. so the term-

F-AA1 L-OW0-D DH-AH0 K-EY1 S-AH0 Z-M-AO1-R DH-AE1-N F-AA1 L-OW0 D-M-AY1 OW1 N-R-IY0 S-ER1 CH-ER0 IY2 S-AH0 S-OW1 K-IY0 S-OW1 DH-AH0 T-ER1-M


... and that's precisely the subtext of the book, the challenge of legal pluralism in sub-saharan africa.

AH0-N-D TH-AE1-T-S P-R-IH0 S-AY1 S-L-IY0 DH-AH0 S-AH1-B T-EH2-K-S T-AH1-V DH-AH0 B-UH1-K DH-AH0 CH-AE1 L-AH0-N JH-AH1 V-L-IY1 G-AH0-L P-L-UH1 R-AH0 L-IH2 Z-AH0 M-IH0-N S-AH2-B S-AH0 HH-EH1 R-AH0 N-AE1 F-R-AH0 K-AH0


well, legal pluralism is somewhat-

W-EH1-L L-IY1 G-AH0-L P-L-UH1 R-AH0 L-IH2 Z-AH0 M-IH1-Z S-AH1 M-W-AH1-T


... range of critical legal theorists, et cetera. have you-

R-EY1-N JH-AH1-V K-R-IH1 T-IH0 K-AH0-L L-IY1 G-AH0-L TH-IY1 ER0 IH0-S-T S-EH1-T S-EH1 T-ER0 AH0 HH-AE1 V-Y-UW1


... as a way to go beyond a term known as relativism, right? so, to go beyond-

AE1 Z-AH0 W-EY1 T-UW1 G-OW1 B-IH0 AA1-N D-AH0 T-ER1-M N-OW1 N-AE1 Z-R-EH1 L-AH0 T-IH0 V-IH2 Z-AH0 M-R-AY1-T S-OW1 T-UW1 G-OW1 B-IH0 AA1-N-D


... relativism, but to think about the ways that systems co-exist and compete.

R-EH1 L-AH0 T-IH0 V-IH2 Z-AH0-M B-AH1-T T-UW1 TH-IH1-NG K-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 W-EY1-Z DH-AE1-T S-IH1-S T-AH0-M-Z K-OW2 AH0-G Z-IH1-S T-AH0-N-D K-AH0-M P-IY1-T


these systems co-exist in relations of power. they-

DH-IY1-Z S-IH1-S T-AH0-M-Z K-OW2 AH0-G Z-IH1-S T-IH0 N-R-IY0 L-EY1 SH-AH0-N Z-AH1-V P-AW1 ER0 DH-EY1


... each other. so the rise of islamic sharia in northern nigeria alongside the emergence of-

IY1 CH-AH1 DH-ER0 S-OW1 DH-AH0 R-AY1 Z-AH1 V-IH0 Z-L-AA1 M-IH0-K SH-AA1 R-IY0 AH0 IH0-N N-AO1-R DH-ER0-N N-AY0 JH-IH1 R-IY0 AH0 AH0 L-AO1-NG S-AY1-D DH-AH0 IH0 M-ER1 JH-AH0-N S-AH1-V


so, really, the attempt is to go beyond simply this comparative frame and to think about the power relations that sometimes imbalances-

S-OW1 R-IH1 L-IY0 DH-AH0 AH0 T-EH1-M-P T-IH1-Z T-UW1 G-OW1 B-IH0 AA1-N-D S-IH1-M P-L-IY0 DH-IH1-S K-AH0-M P-EH1 R-AH0 T-IH0-V F-R-EY1 M-AH0-N-D T-UW1 TH-IH1-NG K-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 P-AW1 ER0 R-IY0 L-EY1 SH-AH0-N-Z DH-AE1-T S-AH0-M T-AY1-M Z-IH0-M B-AE1 L-AH0-N S-IH0-Z


what methodology did you use in your-

W-AH1 T-M-EH2 TH-AH0 D-AA1 L-AH0 JH-IY0 D-IH1 D-Y-UW1 Y-UW1 Z-IH0 N-Y-AO1-R


i mean, in your most orthodox way, doing interviews-

AY1 M-IY1 N-IH0 N-Y-AO1-R M-OW1-S T-AO1-R TH-AH0 D-AA2-K S-W-EY1 D-UW1 IH0 NG-IH1-N T-ER0 V-Y-UW2-Z


... at the bar, drinking, having a few drinks to hear, to debrief on what the latest controversy was at a given meeting.

AE1-T DH-AH0 B-AA1-R D-R-IH1-NG K-IH0-NG HH-AE1 V-IH0 NG-AH0 F-Y-UW1 D-R-IH1-NG-K-S T-UW1 HH-IY1-R T-UW1 D-IH0 B-R-IY1 F-AA1 N-W-AH1-T DH-AH0 L-EY1 T-AH0-S-T K-AA1-N T-R-AH0 V-ER2 S-IY0 W-AA1 Z-AE1 T-AH0 G-IH1 V-AH0-N M-IY1 T-IH0-NG


it also involved-


... working with ngos in various parts of sub-saharan africa.

W-ER1 K-IH0 NG-W-IH1-DH G-OW1 Z-IH0-N V-EH1 R-IY0 AH0-S P-AA1-R-T S-AH1-V S-AH2-B S-AH0 HH-EH1 R-AH0 N-AE1 F-R-AH0 K-AH0


but, also, participation and engaged-

B-AH1 T-AO1-L S-OW0 P-AA0-R T-IH2 S-AH0 P-EY1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N D-EH0-N G-EY1-JH-D


... political mobilization related work. and that is often seen as a less-

P-AH0 L-IH1 T-AH0 K-AH0-L M-OW2 B-AH0 L-AH0 Z-EY1 SH-AH0 N-R-IH0 L-EY1 T-IH0 D-W-ER1 K-AH0-N-D DH-AE1 T-IH1 Z-AO1 F-AH0-N S-IY1 N-AE1 Z-AH0 L-EH1-S


... [inaudible 00:08:28] involves quite messy methodology. so, those are the highlights of the work.okay. something just dawned on me when you said-

IH0 N-AO1 D-AH0 B-AH0-L Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0 Z-EY1 T-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D T-W-EH1-N T-IY0 EY1-T S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D Z-IH0-N V-AA1-L-V-Z K-W-AY1 T-M-EH1 S-IY0 M-EH2 TH-AH0 D-AA1 L-AH0 JH-IY0 S-OW1 DH-OW1 Z-AA1-R DH-AH0 HH-AY1 L-AY2-T S-AH1-V DH-AH0 W-ER1 K-AO0 K-EY0 S-AH1-M TH-IH0-NG JH-AH1-S-T D-AO1-N D-AA1-N M-IY1 W-EH1 N-Y-UW1 S-EH1-D


... you would go to the courtroom and then afterwards go to the bar-

Y-UW1 W-UH1-D G-OW1 T-UW1 DH-AH0 K-AO1-R T-R-UW2 M-AH0-N-D DH-EH1 N-AE1-F T-ER0 W-ER0-D-Z G-OW1 T-UW1 DH-AH0 B-AA1-R


... or is it in one location?right. well, the court, the bill-

AO1 R-IH1 Z-IH1 T-IH0 N-W-AH1 N-L-OW1 K-AH0 T-R-IY0 IH0 NG-W-EH1-L DH-AH0 K-AO1-R-T DH-AH0 B-IH1-L


... that the court was really an-

DH-AE1-T DH-AH0 K-AO1-R T-W-AA1 Z-R-IH1 L-IY0 AE1-N


... the un, so every couple of months or every four months or so, diplomats from around the world would converge to work on this document that then became-

DH-AH0 AH1-N S-OW1 EH1 V-ER0 IY0 K-AH1 P-AH0 L-AH1 V-M-AH1-N-TH S-AO1 R-EH1 V-ER0 IY0 F-AO1-R M-AH1-N-TH S-AO1-R S-OW1 D-IH1 P-L-AH0 M-AE2-T-S F-R-AH1 M-ER0 AW1-N-D DH-AH0 W-ER1-L D-W-UH1-D K-AH0-N V-ER1-JH T-UW1 W-ER1 K-AA1-N DH-IH1-S D-AA1 K-Y-AH0 M-AH0-N-T DH-AE1-T DH-EH1-N B-IH0 K-EY1-M


... the international criminal court that became the constitution that was fundamentally the constitution of the court. it was an idea that became a building, but-

DH-AH0 IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L K-R-IH1 M-AH0 N-AH0-L K-AO1-R-T DH-AE1-T B-IH0 K-EY1-M DH-AH0 K-AA2-N-S T-AH0 T-UW1 SH-AH0-N DH-AE1 T-W-AA1-Z F-AH2-N D-AH0 M-EH1-N T-AH0 L-IY0 DH-AH0 K-AA2-N-S T-AH0 T-UW1 SH-AH0 N-AH1-V DH-AH0 K-AO1-R T-IH1 T-W-AA1 Z-AE1 N-AY0 D-IY1 AH0 DH-AE1-T B-IH0 K-EY1 M-AH0 B-IH1-L D-IH0-NG B-AH1-T


... around the world, really. but, yes, in a straightforward way, it is a building-

ER0 AW1-N-D DH-AH0 W-ER1-L D-R-IH1 L-IY0 B-AH1 T-Y-EH1 S-IH0 N-AH0-S T-R-EY1-T F-AO1 R-W-ER0 D-W-EY1 IH1 T-IH1 Z-AH0 B-IH1-L D-IH0-NG


... who visit and watch the cases. it is-

HH-UW1 V-IH1 Z-AH0 T-AH0-N D-W-AA1-CH DH-AH0 K-EY1 S-AH0 Z-IH1 T-IH1-Z


it is a building that's housed in the hague.okay.

IH1 T-IH1 Z-AH0 B-IH1-L D-IH0-NG TH-AE1-T-S HH-AW1-Z D-IH0-N DH-AH0 HH-EY2 G-W-IY0 OW1 K-IY0


there are a number. the conclusions are two-pronged in some ways, because i'm writing to multiple audiences in this book, and it's quite the challenge. on one hand, i'm-

DH-EH1 R-AA1 R-AH0 N-AH1-M B-ER0 DH-AH0 K-AH0-N K-L-UW1 ZH-AH0-N Z-AA1-R-T-W P-AA1 R-AH0-NG D-IH0-N S-AH1 M-W-EY1-Z B-IH0 K-AO1 Z-IH1 M-R-AY1 T-IH0-NG T-UW1 M-AH1-L T-AH0 P-AH0 L-AA1 D-IY0 AH0-N S-AH0 Z-IH0-N DH-IH1-S B-UH1 K-AH0-N D-IH1-T-S K-W-AY1-T DH-AH0 CH-AE1 L-AH0-N JH-AA1 N-W-AH1-N HH-AE1-N D-IH1-M


... writing for anthropologists. i'm engaging-

R-AY1 T-IH0-NG F-AO1 R-AE2-N TH-R-AH0 P-AA1 L-AH0 JH-AH0-S-T S-IH1 M-EH0-N G-EY1 JH-IH0-NG


... notions of legal pluralism. i'm thinking about-

N-OW1 SH-AH0-N Z-AH1 V-L-IY1 G-AH0-L P-L-UH1 R-AH0 L-IH2 Z-AH0 M-IH1-M TH-IH1-NG K-IH0 NG-AH0 B-AW1-T


... about the fictions of this notion that we know as justice and trying to shift the debate in a way to push us to think about emergent movements and [inaudible 00:09:57]-

AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 F-IH1-K SH-AH0-N Z-AH1-V DH-IH1 S-N-OW1 SH-AH0-N DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 N-OW1 AE1-Z JH-AH1-S T-AH0 S-AH0-N-D T-R-AY1 IH0-NG T-UW1 SH-IH1-F-T DH-AH0 D-AH0 B-EY1 T-IH0 N-AH0 W-EY1 T-UW1 P-UH1 SH-AH1-S T-UW1 TH-IH1-NG K-AH0 B-AW1 T-IH0 M-ER1 JH-AH0-N T-M-UW1 V-M-AH0-N-T S-AH0-N D-IH0 N-AO1 D-AH0 B-AH0-L Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0 Z-N-AY1-N M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 S-EH1 V-AH0-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


... in these other domains, these other locales.

IH0-N DH-IY1 Z-AH1 DH-ER0 D-OW0 M-EY1-N-Z DH-IY1 Z-AH1 DH-ER0 L-OW0 K-AE1-L-Z


and this is all part of a conversation and an ongoing one that i have and i'm having with them.

AH0-N-D DH-IH1 S-IH1 Z-AO1-L P-AA1-R T-AH1 V-AH0 K-AA2-N V-ER0 S-EY1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N D-AE1 N-AA1-N G-OW2 IH0 NG-W-AH1-N DH-AE1 T-AY1 HH-AE1 V-AH0-N D-IH1-M HH-AE1 V-IH0 NG-W-IH1-DH DH-EH1-M


and an important one. it's certainly a conversation that needs to be had.

AH0-N D-AE1 N-IH0-M P-AO1-R T-AH0-N T-W-AH1 N-IH1-T-S S-ER1 T-AH0 N-L-IY0 AH0 K-AA2-N V-ER0 S-EY1 SH-AH0-N DH-AE1 T-N-IY1-D-Z T-UW1 B-IY1 HH-AE1-D


yeah, the most surprising.

Y-AE1 DH-AH0 M-OW1-S-T S-ER0 P-R-AY1 Z-IH0-NG


one person's justice is another person's retribution. one person's justice a-

W-AH1-N P-ER1 S-AH0-N-Z JH-AH1-S T-AH0 S-IH1 Z-AH0 N-AH1 DH-ER0 P-ER1 S-AH0-N Z-R-EH2 T-R-AH0 B-Y-UW1 SH-AH0 N-W-AH1-N P-ER1 S-AH0-N-Z JH-AH1-S T-AH0 S-AH0


... had a sense that there was more in common than not.

HH-AE1 D-AH0 S-EH1-N-S DH-AE1-T DH-EH1 R-W-AA1 Z-M-AO1 R-IH0-N K-AA1 M-AH0-N DH-AE1-N N-AA1-T


and after almost eight, nine years of research in this-

AH0-N D-AE1-F T-ER0 AO1-L M-OW2-S T-EY1 T-N-AY1 N-Y-IH1-R Z-AH1 V-R-IY0 S-ER1 CH-IH0-N DH-IH1-S


... what justice is. so, that's probably the most surprising.

W-AH1-T JH-AH1-S T-AH0 S-IH1-Z S-OW1 TH-AE1-T-S P-R-AA1 B-AH0 B-L-IY0 DH-AH0 M-OW1-S-T S-ER0 P-R-AY1 Z-IH0-NG


\macmillan report. be sure to join us again for another episode of the macmillan report-

M-AH0 K-M-IH1 L-AH0 N-R-IY0 P-AO1-R-T B-IY1 SH-UH1-R T-UW1 JH-OY1 N-AH1 S-AH0 G-EH1-N F-AO1 R-AH0 N-AH1 DH-ER0 EH1 P-AH0 S-OW2 D-AH1-V DH-AH0 M-AH0 K-M-IH1 L-AH0 N-R-IY0 P-AO1-R-T


... made possible through funding from the whitney and betty macmillan center for international and area studies at yale.

M-EY1-D P-AA1 S-AH0 B-AH0-L TH-R-UW1 F-AH1-N D-IH0-NG F-R-AH1-M DH-AH0 W-IH1 T-N-IY0 AH0-N-D B-EH1 T-IY0 M-AH0 K-M-IH1 L-AH0-N S-EH1-N T-ER0 F-AO1 R-IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0 L-AH0-N D-EH1 R-IY0 AH0-S T-AH1 D-IY0 Z-AE1 T-Y-EY1-L


hear about her forthcoming book on the persian rug bazaar. welcome professor erami.thank you, marilyn, for having me.

HH-IY1 R-AH0 B-AW1-T HH-ER0 F-AO1-R-TH K-AH1 M-IH0-NG B-UH1 K-AA1-N DH-AH0 P-ER1 ZH-AH0 N-R-AH1-G B-AH0 Z-AA1 R-W-EH1-L K-AH0-M P-R-AH0 F-EH1 S-ER0 EH2 R-AH0 M-AE1 TH-IH0-NG K-AH0 Y-UW1 M-EH1 R-AH0 L-AH0-N F-AO1-R HH-AE1 V-IH0-NG M-IY1


let's begin with an overview of your-

L-EH1-T-S B-IH0 G-IH1 N-W-IH1 DH-AE1 N-OW1 V-ER0 V-Y-UW2 AH1 V-Y-AO1-R


my dissertation primarily where i spent two continuous years doing-

M-AY1 D-IH2 S-ER0 T-EY1 SH-AH0-N P-R-AY0 M-EH1 R-AH0 L-IY0 W-EH1 R-AY1-S P-EH1-N-T T-UW1 K-AH0-N T-IH1 N-Y-UW0 AH0 S-Y-IH1-R-Z D-UW1 IH0-NG


how did you come-


... to write the book?well, i was-

T-UW1 R-AY1-T DH-AH0 B-UH1 K-W-EH2 L-AY1 W-AA1-Z


... young, but i was still living in iran-

Y-AH1-NG B-AH1 T-AY1 W-AA1-Z-S T-IH1-L L-IH1 V-IH0 NG-IH0 N-IH0 R-AA1-N


... at that time. and so reading about it as an undergraduate, i would hear about-

AE1-T DH-AE1-T T-AY1 M-AH0-N-D S-OW1 R-EH1 D-IH0 NG-AH0 B-AW1 T-IH1 T-AE1 Z-AE1 N-AH2-N D-ER0 G-R-AE1 JH-AH0 W-AH0 T-AY1 W-UH1-D HH-IY1 R-AH0 B-AW1-T


... and again, simultaneously i would read about the holy city of qom as this sort of opaque place, a mysterious-

AH0-N D-AH0 G-EH1-N S-AY2 M-AH0-L T-EY1 N-IY0 AH0 S-L-IY0 AY1 W-UH1 D-R-EH1 D-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 HH-OW1 L-IY0 S-IH1 T-IY0 AH1-V K-AA1 M-AE1-Z DH-IH1-S S-AO1-R T-AH1 V-OW0 P-EY1-K P-L-EY1 S-AH0 M-IH0-S T-IH1 R-IY0 AH0-S


... was about seven years old and had moved to the united arab emirates. and i was living in dubai where i-

W-AA1 Z-AH0 B-AW1-T S-EH1 V-AH0 N-Y-IH1-R Z-OW1-L D-AH0-N-D HH-AE1 D-M-UW1-V-D T-UW1 DH-AH0 Y-UW0 N-AY1 T-AH0 D-AE1 R-AH0 B-EH1 M-ER0 AH0-T S-AH0-N D-AY1 W-AA1 Z-L-IH1 V-IH0 NG-IH0-N D-UW0 B-AY1 W-EH1 R-AY1


... would feel a hint of that living in dubai, but it was-

W-UH1-D F-IY1 L-AH0 HH-IH1-N T-AH1-V DH-AE1 T-L-IH1 V-IH0 NG-IH0-N D-UW0 B-AY1 B-AH1 T-IH1 T-W-AA1-Z


... the iranians who felt that they were pushed out of the country because of the clerics in charge. and the holy city of qom is iran's-

DH-AH0 AY0 R-EY1 N-IY0 AH0-N-Z HH-UW1 F-EH1-L-T DH-AE1-T DH-EY1 W-ER0 P-UH1-SH T-AW1 T-AH1-V DH-AH0 K-AH1-N T-R-IY0 B-IH0 K-AO1 Z-AH1-V DH-AH0 K-L-EH1 R-IH0-K S-IH0-N CH-AA1-R JH-AH0-N-D DH-AH0 HH-OW1 L-IY0 S-IH1 T-IY0 AH1-V K-AA1 M-IH1 Z-AY1 R-AH0-N-Z


... arguably most religious city. it is known as a seminary city. so, all the clerics who took power-

AA1-R G-Y-UW0 AH0 B-L-IY0 M-OW1-S T-R-IH0 L-IH1 JH-AH0-S S-IH1 T-IY0 IH1 T-IH1 Z-N-OW1 N-AE1 Z-AH0 S-EH1 M-AH0 N-EH2 R-IY0 S-IH1 T-IY0 S-OW1 AO1-L DH-AH0 K-L-EH1 R-IH0-K-S HH-UW1 T-UH1-K P-AW1 ER0


... at one point have studied in qom or know each other from qom or hold offices in qom or actually live in qom, and-

AE1 T-W-AH1-N P-OY1-N-T HH-AE1-V-S T-AH1 D-IY0 D-IH0-N K-AA1 M-AO1-R N-OW1 IY1 CH-AH1 DH-ER0 F-R-AH1-M K-AA1 M-AO1-R HH-OW1-L D-AO1 F-AH0 S-AH0 Z-IH0-N K-AA1 M-AO1 R-AE1-K CH-AH0 W-AH0 L-IY0 L-AY1 V-IH0-N K-AA1 M-AH0-N-D


... my father is from there, his family's from there and they continued to live there.

M-AY1 F-AA1 DH-ER0 IH1-Z F-R-AH1-M DH-EH1-R HH-IH1-Z F-AE1 M-AH0 L-AH0-S F-R-AH1-M DH-EH1 R-AH0-N-D DH-EY1 K-AH0-N T-IH1 N-Y-UW0-D T-UW1 L-AY1-V DH-EH1-R


i thought of it as, i had wonderful childhood memories of-

AY1 TH-AO1 T-AH1 V-IH1 T-AE1 Z-AY1 HH-AE1 D-W-AH1-N D-ER0 F-AH0-L CH-AY1-L-D HH-UH2 D-M-EH1 M-ER0 IY0 Z-AH1-V


... since the ninth century. so, i grew up thinking of it as a-

S-IH1-N-S DH-AH0 N-AY1-N-TH S-EH1-N CH-ER0 IY0 S-OW1 AY1 G-R-UW1 AH1-P TH-IH1-NG K-IH0 NG-AH1 V-IH1 T-AE1 Z-AH0


... in the city of qom even before the revolution where this law did not exist, you-

IH0-N DH-AH0 S-IH1 T-IY0 AH1-V K-AA1 M-IY1 V-IH0-N B-IH0 F-AO1-R DH-AH0 R-EH2 V-AH0 L-UW1 SH-AH0 N-W-EH1-R DH-IH1 S-L-AO1 D-IH1 D-N-AA1 T-IH0-G Z-IH1-S T-Y-UW1


well, i had the-


... to not one to let people know about their business. so-

T-UW1 N-AA1 T-W-AH1-N T-UW1 L-EH1-T P-IY1 P-AH0-L N-OW1 AH0 B-AW1-T DH-EH1-R B-IH1 Z-N-AH0-S S-OW1


... books, that was one of the resources that i tapped into. so, i would start with my own family. and then i had-

B-UH1-K-S DH-AE1 T-W-AA1 Z-W-AH1 N-AH1-V DH-AH0 R-IY1 S-AO0-R S-IH0-Z DH-AE1 T-AY1 T-AE1-P T-IH0-N T-UW1 S-OW1 AY1 W-UH1-D-S T-AA1-R T-W-IH1 DH-M-AY1 OW1-N F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 AH0-N-D DH-EH1 N-AY1 HH-AE1-D


... folks in my own family introduced me to other folks in the bazaar.

F-OW1-K S-IH0-N M-AY1 OW1-N F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 IH2-N T-R-AH0 D-UW1-S T-M-IY1 T-UW1 AH1 DH-ER0 F-OW1-K S-IH0-N DH-AH0 B-AH0 Z-AA1-R


and then i had access to something that was not-

AH0-N-D DH-EH1 N-AY1 HH-AE1 D-AE1-K S-EH2-S T-UW1 S-AH1-M TH-IH0-NG DH-AE1 T-W-AA1 Z-N-AA1-T


... to bazaars. in tara, i would be able to go into someone's store and start to interview them. but i wasn't-

T-UW1 B-AH0 Z-AA1-R Z-IH0-N T-EH1 R-AH0 AY1 W-UH1-D B-IY1 EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 G-OW1 IH0-N T-UW1 S-AH1 M-OW2-N-Z-S T-AO1 R-AH0-N-D-S T-AA1-R-T T-UW1 IH1-N T-ER0 V-Y-UW2 DH-EH1-M B-AH1 T-AY1 W-AO1-S-T


... always able to get an invite into their family's home-

AO1 L-W-EY2 Z-EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 G-EH1 T-AE1 N-IH1-N V-AY0 T-IH0-N T-UW1 DH-EH1-R F-AE1 M-AH0 L-AH0-S HH-OW1-M


... to do that. and after spending a long time in the bazaar, and of course-

T-UW1 D-UW1 DH-AE1 T-AH0-N D-AE1-F T-ER0-S P-EH1-N D-IH0 NG-AH0 L-AO1-NG T-AY1 M-IH0-N DH-AH0 B-AH0 Z-AA1 R-AH0-N D-AH1-V K-AO1-R-S


... people remembered me being-

P-IY1 P-AH0-L R-IH0 M-EH1-M B-ER0 D-M-IY1 B-IY1 IH0-NG


so, it allowed me to inter-

S-OW1 IH1 T-AH0 L-AW1 D-M-IY1 T-UW1 IH0-N T-ER1


... entity that was really created after the revolution for members of the bazaar to be able to deal with their problem-

EH1-N T-AH0 T-IY0 DH-AE1 T-W-AA1 Z-R-IH1 L-IY0 K-R-IY0 EY1 T-AH0 D-AE1-F T-ER0 DH-AH0 R-EH2 V-AH0 L-UW1 SH-AH0-N F-AO1-R M-EH1-M B-ER0 Z-AH1-V DH-AH0 B-AH0 Z-AA1-R T-UW1 B-IY1 EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 D-IY1 L-W-IH1-DH DH-EH1-R P-R-AA1 B-L-AH0-M


... which is basically a guild like institution. and so there is a [inaudible 00:03:57] for almost every-

W-IH1 CH-IH1-Z B-EY1 S-IH0 K-L-IY0 AH0 G-IH1-L D-L-AY1 K-IH2-N-S T-IH0 T-UW1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N-D S-OW1 DH-EH1 R-IH1 Z-AH0 IH0 N-AO1 D-AH0 B-AH0-L Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z TH-R-IY1 M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 S-EH1 V-AH0-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z F-AO1 R-AO1-L M-OW2-S T-EH1 V-ER0 IY0


... vocation and the bazaar in every city-

V-OW0 K-EY1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N-D DH-AH0 B-AH0 Z-AA1 R-IH0 N-EH1 V-ER0 IY0 S-IH1 T-IY0


... recorder was. so, my presence as a female, as an outsider-

R-IH0 K-AO1-R D-ER0 W-AA1-Z S-OW1 M-AY1 P-R-EH1 Z-AH0-N S-AE1 Z-AH0 F-IY1 M-EY2 L-AE1 Z-AE1 N-AW0-T S-AY1 D-ER0


... tape recorder was, so i was able to get a very good-

T-EY1 P-R-IH0 K-AO1-R D-ER0 W-AA1-Z S-OW1 AY1 W-AA1 Z-EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 G-EH1 T-AH0 V-EH1 R-IY0 G-UH1-D


... ethnographic feel for what was going on from the bazaar and then into their family-

EH2 TH-N-AH0 G-R-AE1 F-IH0-K F-IY1-L F-AO1 R-W-AH1 T-W-AA1-Z G-OW1 IH0 NG-AA1-N F-R-AH1-M DH-AH0 B-AH0 Z-AA1 R-AH0-N-D DH-EH1 N-IH0-N T-UW1 DH-EH1-R F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0


... homes.how many families?

HH-OW1-M SH-OW2 M-EH1 N-IY0 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0-Z


... based on religious tithing, would give certain amount of money to clerics. and there were always these ti-

B-EY1-S T-AA1 N-R-IH0 L-IH1 JH-AH0-S T-AY1 DH-IH0 NG-W-UH1-D G-IH1-V S-ER1 T-AH0 N-AH0 M-AW1-N T-AH1 V-M-AH1 N-IY0 T-UW1 K-L-EH1 R-IH0-K S-AH0-N-D DH-EH1 R-W-ER0 AO1 L-W-EY2-Z DH-IY1-Z T-IY1


so, i realized that when historians would refer to bazaaries, there were all sorts of levels of bazaaries. there were the very wealthy bazaaries. there were sort of medium level-

S-OW1 AY1 R-IY1 L-AY2-Z-D DH-AE1 T-W-EH1-N HH-IH0-S T-AO1 R-IY0 AH0-N Z-W-UH1 D-R-AH0 F-ER1 T-UW1 B-AE1 Z-ER0 IY0-Z DH-EH1 R-W-ER0 AO1-L S-AO1-R-T S-AH1 V-L-EH1 V-AH0-L Z-AH1-V B-AE1 Z-ER0 IY0-Z DH-EH1 R-W-ER0 DH-AH0 V-EH1 R-IY0 W-EH1-L TH-IY0 B-AE1 Z-ER0 IY0-Z DH-EH1 R-W-ER0 S-AO1-R T-AH1 V-M-IY1 D-IY0 AH0 M-L-EH1 V-AH0-L


they were located differently in the actual bazaar, which is-

DH-EY1 W-ER0 L-OW1 K-EY2 T-AH0-D D-IH1 F-R-AH0-N T-L-IY0 IH0-N DH-AH0 AE1-K CH-AH0 W-AH0-L B-AH0 Z-AA1 R-W-IH1 CH-IH1-Z


... now even where you're looking in the mall really says-

N-AW1 IY1 V-IH0 N-W-EH1 R-Y-UH1-R L-UH1 K-IH0 NG-IH0-N DH-AH0 M-AO1-L R-IH1 L-IY0 S-EH1-Z


... about the kind of consumer that comes in. and so it dictates-

AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 K-AY1-N D-AH1-V K-AH0-N S-UW1 M-ER0 DH-AE1-T K-AH1-M Z-IH0 N-AH0-N-D S-OW1 IH1-T D-IH0-K T-EY1-T-S


... and so i became sort of fascinated with-

AH0-N-D S-OW1 AY1 B-IH0 K-EY1-M S-AO1-R T-AH1-V F-AE1 S-AH0 N-EY2 T-AH0 D-W-IH1-DH


... and so part of what i was doing was doing ethnographic field work as just a sort of spending time in the bazaar with them and moving from place-

AH0-N-D S-OW1 P-AA1-R T-AH1 V-W-AH1 T-AY1 W-AA1-Z D-UW1 IH0 NG-W-AA1-Z D-UW1 IH0 NG-EH2 TH-N-AH0 G-R-AE1 F-IH0-K F-IY1-L D-W-ER1 K-AE1-Z JH-AH1-S T-AH0 S-AO1-R T-AH1-V-S P-EH1-N D-IH0-NG T-AY1 M-IH0-N DH-AH0 B-AH0 Z-AA1 R-W-IH1-DH DH-EH1 M-AH0-N D-M-UW1 V-IH0-NG F-R-AH1-M P-L-EY1-S


so, i would look at the carpets also as a kind of document, as a kind of-

S-OW1 AY1 W-UH1 D-L-UH1 K-AE1-T DH-AH0 K-AA1-R P-AH0-T S-AO1-L S-OW0 AE1 Z-AH0 K-AY1-N D-AH1-V D-AA1 K-Y-AH0 M-AH0-N T-AE1 Z-AH0 K-AY1-N D-AH1-V


primarily most of the rugs that are made-

P-R-AY0 M-EH1 R-AH0 L-IY0 M-OW1-S T-AH1-V DH-AH0 R-AH1-G-Z DH-AE1 T-AA1-R M-EY1-D


... in the city of qom, maybe more than 90%-

IH0-N DH-AH0 S-IH1 T-IY0 AH1-V K-AA1-M M-EY1 B-IY0 M-AO1-R DH-AE1-N N-AY1-N T-IY0 P-ER0 S-EH1-N-T


... of it are for export.okay. and that brings me to a term you use, the colonization of taste.

AH1 V-IH1 T-AA1-R F-AO1 R-IH0-K-S P-AO0-R T-AA1 K-IY0 AH0-N-D DH-AE1-T B-R-IH1-NG Z-M-IY1 T-UW1 AH0 T-ER1 M-Y-UW1 Y-UW1-Z DH-AH0 K-AA2 L-AH0 N-IH0 Z-EY1 SH-AH0 N-AH1-V T-EY1-S-T


colonization of taste is a term i use in-

K-AA2 L-AH0 N-IH0 Z-EY1 SH-AH0 N-AH1-V T-EY1-S T-IH1 Z-AH0 T-ER1 M-AY1 Y-UW1 Z-IH0-N


... travelers were fascinated by carpet merchants and already by the 19th century they thought that-

T-R-AE1 V-AH0 L-ER0 Z-W-ER0 F-AE1 S-AH0 N-EY2 T-AH0-D B-AY1 K-AA1-R P-AH0 T-M-ER1 CH-AH0-N-T S-AH0-N D-AO0-L R-EH1 D-IY0 B-AY1 DH-AH0 N-AY1-N T-IY1-N-TH S-EH1-N CH-ER0 IY0 DH-EY1 TH-AO1-T DH-AE1-T


... the originality had basically-

DH-AH0 ER0 IH2 JH-AH0 N-AE1 L-IH0 T-IY0 HH-AE1-D B-EY1 S-IH0 K-L-IY0


... the quality of carpets and the designs.why is that?

DH-AH0 K-W-AA1 L-AH0 T-IY0 AH1-V K-AA1-R P-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D DH-AH0 D-IH0 Z-IH1 G-N-AH0-S F-IY0 IH1-Z DH-AE1-T


... were the movement of the-

W-ER0 DH-AH0 M-UW1 V-M-AH0-N T-AH1-V DH-AH0


... the early 20th century you begin to see american-

DH-AH0 ER1 L-IY0 T-W-EH1-N T-IY0 AH0-TH S-EH1-N CH-ER0 IY0 Y-UW1 B-IH0 G-IH1-N T-UW1 S-IY1 AH0 M-EH1 R-AH0 K-AH0-N


... companies moving into iran and-

K-AH1-M P-AH0 N-IY0 Z-M-UW1 V-IH0 NG-IH0-N T-UW1 IH0 R-AA1 N-AH0-N-D


... carpets. there are works done on carpets and mostly sort of in terms of aesthetics-

K-AA1-R P-AH0-T-S DH-EH1 R-AA1 R-W-ER1-K-S D-AH1 N-AA1-N K-AA1-R P-AH0-T S-AH0-N D-M-OW1-S T-L-IY0 S-AO1-R T-AH1 V-IH0-N T-ER1-M Z-AH1 V-EH0-S TH-EH1 T-IH0-K-S


... [inaudible 00:06:29], but also look at-

IH0 N-AO1 D-AH0 B-AH0-L Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z S-IH1-K S-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D T-W-EH1-N T-IY0 N-AY1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z B-AH1 T-AO1-L S-OW0 L-UH1 K-AE1-T


... the merchants who produce it. so, i look at production-

DH-AH0 M-ER1 CH-AH0-N-T-S HH-UW1 P-R-AH0 D-UW1 S-IH1-T S-OW1 AY1 L-UH1 K-AE1-T P-R-AH0 D-AH1-K SH-AH0-N


... and consumption as opposed to one or the other. and i also look at the relationship between the merchants, the weavers and the family.

AH0-N-D K-AH0-N S-AH1-M-P SH-AH0 N-AE1 Z-AH0 P-OW1-Z-D T-UW1 W-AH1 N-AO1-R DH-AH0 AH1 DH-ER0 AH0-N D-AY1 AO1-L S-OW0 L-UH1 K-AE1-T DH-AH0 R-IY0 L-EY1 SH-AH0-N SH-IH2-P B-IH0 T-W-IY1-N DH-AH0 M-ER1 CH-AH0-N-T-S DH-AH0 W-IY1 V-ER0 Z-AH0-N-D DH-AH0 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0


so, all those things haven't been done together. and the other element is that carpets are [inaudible 00:06:51] to-

S-OW1 AO1-L DH-OW1-Z TH-IH1-NG-Z HH-AE1 V-AH0-N-T B-IH1-N D-AH1-N T-AH0 G-EH1 DH-ER0 AH0-N-D DH-AH0 AH1 DH-ER0 EH1 L-AH0 M-AH0-N T-IH1-Z DH-AE1-T K-AA1-R P-AH0-T S-AA1 R-IH0 N-AO1 D-AH0 B-AH0-L Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z S-IH1-K S-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 W-AH1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D T-UW1


... shiraz or designed in shiraz. and carpets are kind of branded that way, even now by families-

SH-AY1 R-AH0 Z-AO1-R D-IH0 Z-AY1-N D-IH0-N SH-AY1 R-AH0 Z-AH0-N-D K-AA1-R P-AH0-T S-AA1-R K-AY1-N D-AH1-V B-R-AE1-N D-IH0-D DH-AE1 T-W-EY1 IY1 V-IH0-N N-AW1 B-AY1 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0-Z


... who produce these carpets. and qom became an interesting site for multiple reasons because it's a religious city, because it's an important city-

HH-UW1 P-R-AH0 D-UW1-S DH-IY1-Z K-AA1-R P-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D K-AA1-M B-IH0 K-EY1 M-AE1 N-IH1-N T-R-AH0-S T-IH0-NG S-AY1-T F-AO1-R M-AH1-L T-AH0 P-AH0-L R-IY1 Z-AH0-N-Z B-IH0 K-AO1 Z-IH1-T S-AH0 R-IH0 L-IH1 JH-AH0-S S-IH1 T-IY0 B-IH0 K-AO1 Z-IH1-T S-AE1 N-IH0-M P-AO1-R T-AH0-N-T S-IH1 T-IY0


... now, and it has national, but international significance, things that happen there have national/international significance, but-

N-AW1 AH0-N D-IH1-T HH-AE1 Z-N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L B-AH1 T-IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L S-AH0 G-N-IH1 F-IH0 K-AH0-N-S TH-IH1-NG-Z DH-AE1-T HH-AE1 P-AH0-N DH-EH1-R HH-AE1 V-N-AE2 SH-AH0 N-AH0 T-L-EH1-N SH-AH0-N S-AH0 G-N-IH1 F-IH0 K-AH0-N-S B-AH1-T


... because it was a brand new industry, because there was no history of it, they were able-

B-IH0 K-AO1 Z-IH1 T-W-AA1 Z-AH0 B-R-AE1-N D-N-UW1 IH1-N D-AH0-S T-R-IY0 B-IH0 K-AO1-Z DH-EH1 R-W-AA1 Z-N-OW1 HH-IH1-S T-ER0 IY0 AH1 V-IH1-T DH-EY1 W-ER0 EY1 B-AH0-L


... in terms of really anywhere else in iran. and because this was a brand new industry-

IH0-N T-ER1-M Z-AH1 V-R-IH1 L-IY0 EH1 N-IY0 W-EH2 R-EH1-L S-IH0 N-IH0 R-AA1 N-AH0-N-D B-IH0 K-AO1-Z DH-IH1 S-W-AA1 Z-AH0 B-R-AE1-N D-N-UW1 IH1-N D-AH0-S T-R-IY0


... their private lives that even my family did not know about. so, it took a long time-

DH-EH1-R P-R-AY1 V-AH0 T-L-IH1-V-Z DH-AE1 T-IY1 V-IH0-N M-AY1 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 D-IH1 D-N-AA1 T-N-OW1 AH0 B-AW1-T S-OW1 IH1-T T-UH1 K-AH0 L-AO1-NG T-AY1-M


... to gain trust, but i was able to do it in a way that i thought, well, it was already afforded to me because of my family, but in fact-

T-UW1 G-EY1-N T-R-AH1-S-T B-AH1 T-AY1 W-AA1 Z-EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 D-UW1 IH1 T-IH0 N-AH0 W-EY1 DH-AE1 T-AY1 TH-AO1 T-W-EH1 L-IH1 T-W-AA1 Z-AO0-L R-EH1 D-IY0 AH0 F-AO1-R D-AH0-D T-UW1 M-IY1 B-IH0 K-AO1 Z-AH1 V-M-AY1 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 B-AH1 T-IH0-N F-AE1-K-T


... because of my family, sometimes it was-

B-IH0 K-AO1 Z-AH1 V-M-AY1 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 S-AH0-M T-AY1-M Z-IH1 T-W-AA1-Z


... [inaudible 00:07:51] and it would allow me to look through, i was interested in what they were reading, for example-

IH0 N-AO1 D-AH0 B-AH0-L Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z S-EH1 V-AH0-N M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 W-AH1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N D-AH0-N D-IH1 T-W-UH1 D-AH0 L-AW1 M-IY1 T-UW1 L-UH1-K TH-R-UW1 AY1 W-AA1 Z-IH1-N T-R-AH0-S T-AH0 D-IH0 N-W-AH1-T DH-EY1 W-ER0 R-EH1 D-IH0-NG F-AO1 R-IH0-G Z-AE1-M P-AH0-L


... any sort of documents they would have in their houses. they were-

EH1 N-IY0 S-AO1-R T-AH1-V D-AA1 K-Y-AH0 M-AH0-N-T-S DH-EY1 W-UH1-D HH-AE1 V-IH0-N DH-EH1-R HH-AW1 S-AH0-Z DH-EY1 W-ER0


... open to everything. and so i got to have a glimpse into their lives. and-

OW1 P-AH0-N T-UW1 EH1 V-R-IY0 TH-IH2 NG-AH0-N-D S-OW1 AY1 G-AA1-T T-UW1 HH-AE1 V-AH0 G-L-IH1-M-P S-IH0-N T-UW1 DH-EH1-R L-IH1-V Z-AH0-N-D


... i was not as much surprised-

AY1 W-AA1 Z-N-AA1 T-AE1 Z-M-AH1-CH S-ER0 P-R-AY1-Z-D


... but i knew from a few family friends that women very much involved-

B-AH1 T-AY1 N-UW1 F-R-AH1 M-AH0 F-Y-UW1 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 F-R-EH1-N-D-Z DH-AE1 T-W-IH1 M-AH0-N V-EH1 R-IY0 M-AH1 CH-IH0-N V-AA1-L-V-D


... if, because it's-


... for the iranian carpet merchants who believe that-

F-AO1-R DH-AH0 IH0 R-AA1 N-IY0 AH0-N K-AA1-R P-AH0 T-M-ER1 CH-AH0-N-T-S HH-UW1 B-IH0 L-IY1-V DH-AE1-T


... carpet's originated in iran, especially the modern-

K-AA1-R P-AH0-T S-ER0 IH1 JH-AH0 N-EY2 T-AH0 D-IH0 N-IH0 R-AA1 N-AH0-S P-EH1 SH-L-IY0 DH-AH0 M-AA1 D-ER0-N


... carpet industry. so, they're constantly battling global competition. and in order to have these copyright laws-

K-AA1-R P-AH0 T-IH1-N D-AH0-S T-R-IY0 S-OW1 TH-EH1-R K-AA1-N-S T-AH0-N T-L-IY0 B-AE1 T-AH0 L-IH0-NG G-L-OW1 B-AH0-L K-AA2-M P-AH0 T-IH1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N D-IH0 N-AO1-R D-ER0 T-UW1 HH-AE1-V DH-IY1-Z K-AA1 P-IY0 R-AY2 T-L-AO1-Z


... had tense moments with many folks in the world. and so at the same time even friends, as well as foes-

HH-AE1-D T-EH1-N S-M-OW1 M-AH0-N-T S-W-IH1 DH-M-EH1 N-IY0 F-OW1-K S-IH0-N DH-AH0 W-ER1-L D-AH0-N-D S-OW1 AE1-T DH-AH0 S-EY1-M T-AY1 M-IY1 V-IH0-N F-R-EH1-N-D Z-AE1 Z-W-EH1 L-AE1-Z F-OW1-Z


but, the tension lies where the merchants want to have an independence in terms of the carpet industry.

B-AH1-T DH-AH0 T-EH1-N SH-AH0 N-L-AY1 Z-W-EH1-R DH-AH0 M-ER1 CH-AH0-N-T S-W-AA1-N-T T-UW1 HH-AE1 V-AE1 N-IH2-N D-IH0 P-EH1-N D-AH0-N S-IH0-N T-ER1-M Z-AH1-V DH-AH0 K-AA1-R P-AH0 T-IH1-N D-AH0-S T-R-IY0


now, if they were to give power to the state,

N-AW1 IH1-F DH-EY1 W-ER0 T-UW1 G-IH1-V P-AW1 ER0 T-UW1 DH-AH0-S T-EY1-T


the state might be able to control the copyright issues. but again, copyright-

DH-AH0-S T-EY1 T-M-AY1-T B-IY1 EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 K-AH0-N T-R-OW1-L DH-AH0 K-AA1 P-IY0 R-AY2 T-IH1 SH-UW0-Z B-AH1 T-AH0 G-EH1-N K-AA1 P-IY0 R-AY2-T


so, rug merchants know that when they commission a designer to come up with a design-

S-OW1 R-AH1 G-M-ER1 CH-AH0-N-T S-N-OW1 DH-AE1 T-W-EH1-N DH-EY1 K-AH0 M-IH1 SH-AH0 N-AH0 D-IH0 Z-AY1 N-ER0 T-UW1 K-AH1 M-AH1 P-W-IH1 DH-AH0 D-IH0 Z-AY1-N


... sort of luxury boutique type carpets. so, these are carpets-

S-AO1-R T-AH1 V-L-AH1-G ZH-ER0 IY0 B-UW0 T-IY1-K T-AY1-P K-AA1-R P-AH0-T-S S-OW1 DH-IY1 Z-AA1-R K-AA1-R P-AH0-T-S


... that they know will only last for such a short time. so-

DH-AE1-T DH-EY1 N-OW1 W-IH1 L-OW1 N-L-IY0 L-AE1-S-T F-AO1-R S-AH1 CH-AH0 SH-AO1-R-T T-AY1-M S-OW1


... but it takes maybe about a year for it to be woven. and it takes about six months before-

B-AH1 T-IH1-T T-EY1-K S-M-EY1 B-IY0 AH0 B-AW1 T-AH0 Y-IH1-R F-AO1 R-IH1-T T-UW1 B-IY1 W-OW1 V-AH0 N-AH0-N D-IH1-T T-EY1-K S-AH0 B-AW1-T S-IH1-K S-M-AH1-N-TH-S B-IH0 F-AO1-R


and so by the time the carpet hits the-

AH0-N-D S-OW1 B-AY1 DH-AH0 T-AY1-M DH-AH0 K-AA1-R P-AH0-T HH-IH1-T-S DH-AH0


... market, they know that now they have to work on a new design. so, the-

M-AA1-R K-AH0-T DH-EY1 N-OW1 DH-AE1 T-N-AW1 DH-EY1 HH-AE1-V T-UW1 W-ER1 K-AA1 N-AH0 N-UW1 D-IH0 Z-AY1-N S-OW1 DH-AH0


... china, so it is incredibly difficult to be able to tell, except if you have the expertise and that's the other element in my book that comes out as the way that-

CH-AY1 N-AH0 S-OW1 IH1 T-IH1 Z-IH0-N K-R-EH1 D-AH0 B-L-IY0 D-IH1 F-AH0 K-AH0-L-T T-UW1 B-IY1 EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 T-EH1 L-IH0-K S-EH1-P T-IH1 F-Y-UW1 HH-AE1-V DH-AH0 EH2-K-S P-ER0 T-IY1 Z-AH0-N-D TH-AE1-T-S DH-AH0 AH1 DH-ER0 EH1 L-AH0 M-AH0-N T-IH0-N M-AY1 B-UH1-K DH-AE1-T K-AH1-M Z-AW1 T-AE1-Z DH-AH0 W-EY1 DH-AE1-T


these carpet merchants become experts.

DH-IY1-Z K-AA1-R P-AH0 T-M-ER1 CH-AH0-N-T-S B-IH0 K-AH1 M-EH1-K-S P-ER0-T-S


anywhere you see carpets that are called persian design, those often-

EH1 N-IY0 W-EH2 R-Y-UW1 S-IY1 K-AA1-R P-AH0-T-S DH-AE1 T-AA1-R K-AO1-L-D P-ER1 ZH-AH0-N D-IH0 Z-AY1-N DH-OW1 Z-AO1 F-AH0-N


... often mean that they were probably not made in iran. and-

AO1 F-AH0-N M-IY1-N DH-AE1-T DH-EY1 W-ER0 P-R-AA1 B-AH0 B-L-IY0 N-AA1 T-M-EY1 D-IH0 N-IH0 R-AA1 N-AH0-N-D


... so, again, the designs are copied from probably modern or classic-

S-OW1 AH0 G-EH1-N DH-AH0 D-IH0 Z-AY1-N Z-AA1-R K-AA1 P-IY0-D F-R-AH1-M P-R-AA1 B-AH0 B-L-IY0 M-AA1 D-ER0 N-AO1-R K-L-AE1 S-IH0-K


... version carpet designs, but the fact that they weren't made in iran, does that make it less or more of a value?

V-ER1 ZH-AH0-N K-AA1-R P-AH0-T D-IH0 Z-AY1-N-Z B-AH1-T DH-AH0 F-AE1-K-T DH-AE1-T DH-EY1 W-EH1 R-AH0-N T-M-EY1 D-IH0 N-IH0 R-AA1-N D-AH1-Z DH-AE1 T-M-EY1 K-IH1 T-L-EH1 S-AO1-R M-AO1 R-AH1 V-AH0 V-AE1 L-Y-UW0


welcome to the mcmillan report. i'm marilyn wilkes, your host-

W-EH1-L K-AH0-M T-UW1 DH-AH0 M-AH0 K-M-IH1 L-AH0 N-R-IY0 P-AO1-R T-IH1-M M-EH1 R-AH0 L-AH0 N-W-IH1-L-K S-Y-AO1-R HH-OW1-S-T


... on child development. focusing particularly on-

AA1-N CH-AY1-L-D D-IH0 V-EH1 L-AH0 P-M-AH0-N-T F-OW1 K-AH0 S-IH0-NG P-AA2-R T-IH1 K-Y-AH0 L-ER0 L-IY0 AA1-N


the goal of this paper really is to bring the evidence on-

DH-AH0 G-OW1 L-AH1-V DH-IH1-S P-EY1 P-ER0 R-IH1 L-IY0 IH1-Z T-UW1 B-R-IH1-NG DH-AH0 EH1 V-AH0 D-AH0-N S-AA1-N


... that context. so we can inform national level policies to improve these conditions, improve this-

DH-AE1-T K-AA1-N T-EH0-K-S-T S-OW1 W-IY1 K-AE1 N-IH0-N F-AO1-R-M N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L L-EH1 V-AH0-L P-AA1 L-AH0 S-IY0-Z T-UW1 IH0-M P-R-UW1-V DH-IY1-Z K-AH0-N D-IH1 SH-AH0-N Z-IH0-M P-R-UW1-V DH-IH1-S


at unicef, we had a study team that came together to very critically examine-

AE1 T-Y-UW1 N-AH0 S-EH2 F-W-IY1 HH-AE1 D-AH0-S T-AH1 D-IY0 T-IY1-M DH-AE1-T K-EY1-M T-AH0 G-EH1 DH-ER0 T-UW1 V-EH1 R-IY0 K-R-IH1 T-IH0 K-AH0 L-IY0 IH0-G Z-AE1 M-IH0-N


... with a very nuanced and detailed understanding of that, which we know is one of the most important influences on a growing child.

W-IH1 DH-AH0 V-EH1 R-IY0 N-UW1 AA0-N-S T-AH0-N-D D-IH0 T-EY1-L D-AH2-N D-ER0-S T-AE1-N D-IH0 NG-AH1-V DH-AE1 T-W-IH1 CH-W-IY1 N-OW1 IH1 Z-W-AH1 N-AH1-V DH-AH0 M-OW1-S T-IH0-M P-AO1-R T-AH0-N T-IH1-N F-L-UW2 AH0-N S-IH0 Z-AA1 N-AH0 G-R-OW1 IH0-NG CH-AY1-L-D


not sure if you know, marilyn, it's the most-

N-AA1-T SH-UH1 R-IH1 F-Y-UW1 N-OW1 M-EH1 R-AH0 L-AH0 N-IH1-T-S DH-AH0 M-OW1-S-T


... but it's not used that frequently to really mobilize policy.

B-AH1 T-IH1-T S-N-AA1 T-Y-UW1-Z-D DH-AE1-T F-R-IY1 K-W-AH0-N T-L-IY0 T-UW1 R-IH1 L-IY0 M-OW1 B-AH0 L-AY2-Z P-AA1 L-AH0 S-IY0


it's not used that frequently to move issues forward. so we wanted to take the data and use a rights-based lens to try and speak with countries, to see how-

IH1-T S-N-AA1 T-Y-UW1-Z-D DH-AE1-T F-R-IY1 K-W-AH0-N T-L-IY0 T-UW1 M-UW1 V-IH1 SH-UW0-Z F-AO1 R-W-ER0-D S-OW1 W-IY1 W-AA1-N T-AH0-D T-UW1 T-EY1-K DH-AH0 D-EY1 T-AH0 AH0-N D-Y-UW1 Z-AH0 R-AY1-T-S B-EY2-S T-L-EH1-N-Z T-UW1 T-R-AY1 AH0-N-D-S P-IY1 K-W-IH1-DH K-AH1-N T-R-IY0-Z T-UW1 S-IY1 HH-AW1


... they could improve conditions for children.okay.

DH-EY1 K-UH1 D-IH0-M P-R-UW1-V K-AH0-N D-IH1 SH-AH0-N-Z F-AO1-R CH-IH1-L D-ER0 N-AH0 K-EY2


i have to ask, why do you think the united states has signed to this?

AY1 HH-AE1-V T-UW1 AE1-S K-W-AY1 D-UW1 Y-UW1 TH-IH1-NG-K DH-AH0 Y-UW0 N-AY1 T-AH0-D-S T-EY1-T-S HH-AE1-Z S-AY1-N-D T-UW1 DH-IH1-S


... astounded by this fact, there are multiple reasons,okay.there are multiple reasons why the united states has not signed it.

AH0-S T-AW1-N D-IH0-D B-AY1 DH-IH1-S F-AE1-K-T DH-EH1 R-AA1-R M-AH1-L T-AH0 P-AH0-L R-IY2 AH0 S-OW1-N S-AH0 K-AA2 DH-ER0 AA1-R M-AH1-L T-AH0 P-AH0-L R-IY1 Z-AH0-N Z-W-AY1 DH-AH0 Y-UW0 N-AY1 T-AH0-D-S T-EY1-T-S HH-AE1 Z-N-AA1-T S-AY1-N D-IH1-T


the one that's probably the clearest to explain is the fact that the us constitution is supreme, and our constitution-

DH-AH0 W-AH1-N TH-AE1-T-S P-R-AA1 B-AH0 B-L-IY0 DH-AH0 K-L-IH1 R-IH0-S-T T-UW1 IH0-K-S P-L-EY1 N-IH1-Z DH-AH0 F-AE1-K-T DH-AE1-T DH-AH0 AH1-S K-AA2-N-S T-AH0 T-UW1 SH-AH0 N-IH1-Z S-AH0 P-R-IY1 M-AH0-N D-AW1 ER0 K-AA2-N-S T-AH0 T-UW1 SH-AH0-N


... doesn't allow other international laws to super impose its articles that-

D-OW1 S-AH0-N T-AH0 L-AW1 AH1 DH-ER0 IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L L-AO1-Z T-UW1 S-UW1 P-ER0 IH0-M P-OW1 Z-IH1-T S-AA1-R T-AH0 K-AH0-L-Z DH-AE1-T


... the united states has chosen not to be a signatory on the convention.

DH-AH0 Y-UW0 N-AY1 T-AH0-D-S T-EY1-T-S HH-AE1-Z CH-OW1 Z-AH0-N N-AA1-T T-UW1 B-IY1 AH0 S-IH1 G-N-AH0 T-AO2 R-IY0 AA1-N DH-AH0 K-AH0-N V-EH1-N SH-AH0-N


i know you used a particular survey that is very-

AY1 N-OW1 Y-UW1 Y-UW1-S T-AH0 P-ER0 T-IH1 K-Y-AH0 L-ER0 S-ER1 V-EY2 DH-AE1 T-IH1-Z V-EH1 R-IY0


important and innovative and unique. so let's talk about that a little bit.yeah-

IH0-M P-AO1-R T-AH0-N T-AH0-N D-IH1 N-AH0 V-EY2 T-IH0 V-AH0-N D-Y-UW0 N-IY1-K S-OW1 L-EH1-T-S T-AO1 K-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AE1 T-AH0 L-IH1 T-AH0-L B-IH0 T-W-IY1 AH0


it's very interesting. so-

IH1-T-S V-EH1 R-IY0 IH1-N T-R-AH0-S T-IH0-NG S-OW1


... let me before telling you about the methodology, give you another startling fact.okay.90%-

L-EH1 T-M-IY1 B-IH0 F-AO1-R T-EH1 L-IH0 NG-Y-UW1 AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 M-EH2 TH-AH0 D-AA1 L-AH0 JH-IY0 G-IH1 V-Y-UW1 AH0 N-AH1 DH-ER0-S T-AA1-R T-L-IH0-NG F-AE1-K T-OW0 K-EY2 P-OY1-N T-N-AY1 N-OW1 P-ER0 S-EH1-N-T


of the world's children live in the majority world, or the developing world.

AH1-V DH-AH0 W-ER1-L-D-Z CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-L-AY1 V-IH0-N DH-AH0 M-AH0 JH-AO1 R-AH0 T-IY0 W-ER1-L D-AO1-R DH-AH0 D-IH0 V-EH1 L-AH0 P-IH0 NG-W-ER1-L-D


it's 10% that live in the western world.

IH1-T-S T-EH1-N P-ER0 S-EH1-N-T DH-AE1 T-L-AY1 V-IH0-N DH-AH0 W-EH1-S T-ER0 N-W-ER1-L-D


... percent of the literature or the information-

P-ER0 S-EH1-N T-AH1-V DH-AH0 L-IH1 T-ER0 AH0 CH-ER0 AO1-R DH-AH0 IH2-N F-ER0 M-EY1 SH-AH0-N


... nutrition. what's going on when mothers are talking-

N-UW0 T-R-IH1 SH-AH0 N-W-AH0-T-S G-OW1 IH0 NG-AA1 N-W-EH1-N M-AH1 DH-ER0 Z-AA1-R T-AO1 K-IH0-NG


... to children? we have to have cogent evidence around this.

T-UW1 CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-W-IY1 HH-AE1-V T-UW1 HH-AE1-V K-OW1 JH-AH0-N T-EH1 V-AH0 D-AH0-N S-ER0 AW1-N-D DH-IH1-S


... so the survey is really what we used. it's one of the largest-

S-OW1 DH-AH0 S-ER1 V-EY2 IH1 Z-R-IH1 L-IY0 W-AH1 T-W-IY1 Y-UW1-S T-IH1-T S-W-AH1 N-AH1-V DH-AH0 L-AA1-R JH-AH0-S-T


... children declaration, and it's sponsored by unicef.

CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0-N D-EH2 K-L-ER0 EY1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N D-IH1-T-S-S P-AA1-N S-ER0-D B-AY1 Y-UW1 N-AH0 S-EH2-F


it's implemented around the world. and the beauty of this is in the most recent, so it's been going through multiple waves-

IH1-T S-IH1-M P-L-AH0 M-EH2-N T-AH0 D-ER0 AW1-N-D DH-AH0 W-ER1-L D-AH0-N-D DH-AH0 B-Y-UW1 T-IY0 AH1-V DH-IH1 S-IH1 Z-IH0-N DH-AH0 M-OW1-S T-R-IY1 S-AH0-N-T S-OW1 IH1-T-S B-IH1-N G-OW1 IH0-NG TH-R-UW1 M-AH1-L T-AH0 P-AH0 L-W-EY1-V-Z


... but the most recent wave was conducted in 2005.

B-AH1-T DH-AH0 M-OW1-S T-R-IY1 S-AH0-N T-W-EY1 V-W-AA1-Z K-AH0-N D-AH1-K T-AH0 D-IH0-N T-UW1 TH-AW1 Z-AH0-N-D F-AY1-V


they included a lot of questions about this immediate and most influential context for children under five. we-

DH-EY1 IH0-N K-L-UW1 D-AH0 D-AH0 L-AA1 T-AH1-V K-W-EH1-S CH-AH0-N Z-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-IH1 S-IH0 M-IY1 D-IY0 AH0 T-AH0-N D-M-OW1-S T-IH2-N F-L-UW0 EH1-N CH-AH0-L K-AA1-N T-EH0-K-S-T F-AO1-R CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-AH1-N D-ER0 F-AY1 V-W-IY1


... and i think the very unique aspect of our paper was to take the principles of children's rights to survive-

AH0-N D-AY1 TH-IH1-NG-K DH-AH0 V-EH1 R-IY0 Y-UW0 N-IY1 K-AE1-S P-EH2-K T-AH1 V-AW1 ER0 P-EY1 P-ER0 W-AA1-Z T-UW1 T-EY1-K DH-AH0 P-R-IH1-N S-AH0 P-AH0-L Z-AH1-V CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0-N Z-R-AY1-T-S T-UW1 S-ER0 V-AY1-V


it's a very, very complicated-

IH1-T S-AH0 V-EH1 R-IY0 V-EH1 R-IY0 K-AA1-M P-L-AH0 K-EY2 T-AH0-D


... but fairly representative, households are sampled in a country.

B-AH1-T F-EH1-R L-IY0 R-EH2 P-R-AH0 Z-EH1-N T-AH0 T-IH0-V HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-AA1-R S-AE1-M P-AH0-L D-IH0 N-AH0 K-AH1-N T-R-IY0


there are multiple modules that look at health, nutrition-

DH-EH1 R-AA1-R M-AH1-L T-AH0 P-AH0-L M-AA1 JH-UW0-L-Z DH-AE1 T-L-UH1 K-AE1-T HH-EH1-L TH-N-UW0 T-R-IH1 SH-AH0-N


... education, economic status, and countries can elect which modules or questions they-

EH2 JH-AH0 K-EY1 SH-AH0 N-EH2 K-AH0 N-AA1 M-IH0-K-S T-AE1 T-AH0 S-AH0-N-D K-AH1-N T-R-IY0-Z K-AE1 N-IH0 L-EH1-K T-W-IH1 CH-M-AA1 JH-UW0-L Z-AO1-R K-W-EH1-S CH-AH0-N-Z DH-EY1


our study was one, one micro sample of-

AW1 ER0-S T-AH1 D-IY0 W-AA1 Z-W-AH1 N-W-AH1-N M-AY1 K-R-OW2 S-AE1-M P-AH0 L-AH1-V


... and just broad statistics of gdps and-

AH0-N-D JH-AH1-S-T B-R-AO1-D-S T-AH0 T-IH1-S T-IH0-K S-AH1-V D-IH1-P S-AH0-N-D


the findings were, so we had a sample of 28 countries that we looked at in this study, and we had them-

DH-AH0 F-AY1-N D-IH0-NG Z-W-ER0 S-OW1 W-IY1 HH-AE1 D-AH0 S-AE1-M P-AH0 L-AH1-V T-W-EH1-N T-IY0 EY1-T K-AH1-N T-R-IY0-Z DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 L-UH1-K T-AE1 T-IH0-N DH-IH1-S-S T-AH1 D-IY0 AH0-N D-W-IY1 HH-AE1-D DH-EH1-M


... for the ease of categorization-

F-AO1-R DH-AH0 IY1 Z-AH1-V K-AE2 T-AH0 G-ER0 IH0 Z-EY1 SH-AH0-N


... we looked at high human development index, human development- [crosstalk 00:04:27].

W-IY1 L-UH1-K T-AE1-T HH-AY1 HH-Y-UW1 M-AH0-N D-IH0 V-EH1 L-AH0 P-M-AH0-N T-IH1-N D-EH0-K-S HH-Y-UW1 M-AH0-N D-IH0 V-EH1 L-AH0 P-M-AH0-N-T K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z F-AO1-R M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D T-W-EH1-N T-IY0 S-EH1 V-AH0-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


only one fourth of the mothers said they had breastfed the children the previous day.

OW1 N-L-IY0 W-AH1-N F-AO1-R TH-AH1-V DH-AH0 M-AH1 DH-ER0-Z S-EH1-D DH-EY1 HH-AE1-D B-R-EH1-S-T F-EH2-D DH-AH0 CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0-N DH-AH0 P-R-IY1 V-IY0 AH0-S D-EY1


... in a caveat here, is that the-

IH0 N-AH0 K-EY1 V-IY0 AE2-T HH-IY1 R-IH1-Z DH-AE1-T DH-AH0


... the means or the average belies the huge distribution.

DH-AH0 M-IY1-N Z-AO1-R DH-AH0 AE1 V-ER0 IH0-JH B-IH0 L-AY1-Z DH-AH0 HH-Y-UW1-JH D-IH2-S T-R-AH0 B-Y-UW1 SH-AH0-N


so in some ways you can't just peg it to the mean, but that being said, the uppermost range of many-

S-OW1 IH0-N S-AH1 M-W-EY1 Z-Y-UW1 K-AE1-N-T JH-AH1-S-T P-EH1 G-IH1-T T-UW1 DH-AH0 M-IY1-N B-AH1-T DH-AE1-T B-IY1 IH0-NG S-EH1-D DH-AH0 AH1 P-ER0 M-OW2-S T-R-EY1-N JH-AH1 V-M-EH1 N-IY0


... of the responses we got were still lower than what should be in place for optimal- [crosstalk 00:04:58]

AH1-V DH-AH0 R-IH0-S P-AA1-N S-IH0 Z-W-IY1 G-AA1 T-W-ER0-S T-IH1-L L-OW1 ER0 DH-AE1 N-W-AH1-T SH-UH1-D B-IY1 IH0-N P-L-EY1-S F-AO1 R-AA1-P T-AH0 M-AH0-L K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z F-AO1-R M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 EY1-T S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


... need, what we know is a nurturing and a stimulating environment. so-

N-IY1 D-W-AH1 T-W-IY1 N-OW1 IH1 Z-AH0 N-ER1 CH-ER0 IH0 NG-AH0-N D-AH0-S T-IH1 M-Y-AH0 L-EY2 T-IH0 NG-IH0-N V-AY1 R-AH0-N M-AH0-N-T S-OW1


... we know that if we're not upholding the-

W-IY1 N-OW1 DH-AE1 T-IH1 F-W-ER0 N-AA1 T-AH0-P HH-OW1-L D-IH0-NG DH-AH0


... we should be doing, and that was very helpful information, that we got very hard information. we- [crosstalk 00:05:13]

W-IY1 SH-UH1-D B-IY1 D-UW1 IH0 NG-AH0-N-D DH-AE1 T-W-AA1-Z V-EH1 R-IY0 HH-EH1-L-P F-AH0 L-IH2-N F-ER0 M-EY1 SH-AH0-N DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 G-AA1-T V-EH1 R-IY0 HH-AA1-R D-IH2-N F-ER0 M-EY1 SH-AH0 N-W-IY1 K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z F-AY1 V-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D TH-ER1 T-IY1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


... and we took the data and we started looking at implications are fit for, how could you, let's say enhanced breastfeeding, exclusive breastfeeding practices? what-

AH0-N D-W-IY1 T-UH1-K DH-AH0 D-EY1 T-AH0 AH0-N D-W-IY1-S T-AA1-R T-AH0 D-L-UH1 K-IH0 NG-AE1 T-IH2-M P-L-AH0 K-EY1 SH-AH0-N Z-AA1-R F-IH1-T F-AO1-R HH-AW1 K-UH1 D-Y-UW1 L-EH1-T-S S-EY1 EH0-N HH-AE1-N-S-T B-R-EH1-S-T F-IY0 D-IH0 NG-IH0-K-S K-L-UW1 S-IH0-V B-R-EH1-S-T F-IY0 D-IH0-NG P-R-AE1-K T-AH0 S-AH0 Z-W-AH1-T


yeah, i was very fortunate to work in laos. it's a beautiful country. it's just-

Y-AE1 AY1 W-AA1-Z V-EH1 R-IY0 F-AO1-R CH-AH0 N-AH0-T T-UW1 W-ER1 K-IH0 N-L-AA1 OW0 S-IH1-T S-AH0 B-Y-UW1 T-AH0 F-AH0-L K-AH1-N T-R-IY0 IH1-T-S JH-AH1-S-T


just beautiful. it's southeast asia.

JH-AH1-S-T B-Y-UW1 T-AH0 F-AH0 L-IH1-T-S S-AW2 TH-IY1-S T-EY1 ZH-AH0


it's unfortunately, though, a landlocked country, it ranks very low in economic development-

IH1-T S-AH0-N F-AO1-R CH-AH0 N-AH0 T-L-IY0 DH-OW1 AH0 L-AE1-N D-L-AA2-K-T K-AH1-N T-R-IY0 IH1 T-R-AE1-NG-K-S V-EH1 R-IY0 L-OW1 IH0 N-EH2 K-AH0 N-AA1 M-IH0-K D-IH0 V-EH1 L-AH0 P-M-AH0-N-T


... disturbing statistics with respect to children, infant mortality, access to healthcare, access to education.

D-IH0-S T-ER1 B-IH0-NG-S T-AH0 T-IH1-S T-IH0-K S-W-IH1 DH-R-IH0-S P-EH1-K-T T-UW1 CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-IH1-N F-AH0-N T-M-AO0-R T-AE1 L-AH0 T-IY0 AE1-K S-EH2-S T-UW1 HH-EH1-L-TH K-EH2 R-AE1-K S-EH2-S T-UW1 EH2 JH-AH0 K-EY1 SH-AH0-N


and part of the university was really to work as an evidence-based partner in this process.

AH0-N-D P-AA1-R T-AH1-V DH-AH0 Y-UW2 N-AH0 V-ER1 S-AH0 T-IY0 W-AA1 Z-R-IH1 L-IY0 T-UW1 W-ER1 K-AE1 Z-AE1 N-EH1 V-AH0 D-AH0-N S-EY2 B-AH0-S P-AA1-R T-N-ER0 IH0-N DH-IH1-S P-R-AA1 S-EH2-S


... led the process. it was a national-

L-EH1-D DH-AH0 P-R-AA1 S-EH2 S-IH1 T-W-AA1 Z-AH0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L


... programs for children. it was very much in response to, what are the national needs and priorities for young children? and the goal was to build a sustainable policy. and this is a huge-

P-R-OW1 G-R-AE2-M-Z F-AO1-R CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-IH1 T-W-AA1-Z V-EH1 R-IY0 M-AH1 CH-IH0 N-R-IH0-S P-AA1-N-S T-UW1 W-AH1 T-AA1-R DH-AH0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L N-IY1-D Z-AH0-N-D P-R-AY0 AO1 R-AH0 T-IY0-Z F-AO1 R-Y-AH1-NG CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-AH0-N-D DH-AH0 G-OW1 L-W-AA1-Z T-UW1 B-IH1-L D-AH0 S-AH0-S T-EY1 N-AH0 B-AH0-L P-AA1 L-AH0 S-IY0 AH0-N-D DH-IH1 S-IH1 Z-AH0 HH-Y-UW1-JH


... the people. you often hear this rhetoric, "oh, they have great policies, but-"

DH-AH0 P-IY1 P-AH0 L-Y-UW1 AO1 F-AH0-N HH-IY1-R DH-IH1 S-R-EH1 T-ER0 IH0 K-OW1 DH-EY1 HH-AE1-V G-R-EY1-T P-AA1 L-AH0 S-IY0-Z B-AH1-T


... but in implementation, it falls apart. it falls apart because-

B-AH1 T-IH0 N-IH2-M P-L-AH0 M-EH0-N T-EY1 SH-AH0 N-IH1-T F-AO1-L Z-AH0 P-AA1-R T-IH1-T F-AO1-L Z-AH0 P-AA1-R-T B-IH0 K-AO1-Z


there isn't capacity sustainability, there isn't-

DH-EH1 R-IH1 S-AH0-N-T K-AH0 P-AE1 S-AH0 T-IY0 S-AH0-S T-EY2 N-AH0 B-IH1 L-IH0 T-IY0 DH-EH1 R-IH1 S-AH0-N-T


... we bring to this process is, how do you build that sustainability on the different pieces of evidence?

W-IY1 B-R-IH1-NG T-UW1 DH-IH1-S P-R-AA1 S-EH2 S-IH1-Z HH-AW1 D-UW1 Y-UW1 B-IH1-L-D DH-AE1-T S-AH0-S T-EY2 N-AH0 B-IH1 L-IH0 T-IY0 AA1-N DH-AH0 D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N-T P-IY1 S-AH0 Z-AH1 V-EH1 V-AH0 D-AH0-N-S


... have to be interacting with patients. you have to be-

HH-AE1-V T-UW1 B-IY1 IH2-N T-ER0 AE1-K T-IH0 NG-W-IH1-DH P-EY1 SH-AH0-N-T S-Y-UW1 HH-AE1-V T-UW1 B-IY1


... interacting with policy makers, you've got to understand how ideology-

IH2-N T-ER0 AE1-K T-IH0 NG-W-IH1-DH P-AA1 L-AH0 S-IY0 M-EY1 K-ER0 Z-Y-UW1-V G-AA1-T T-UW1 AH2-N D-ER0-S T-AE1-N-D HH-AW1 AY2 D-IY0 AA1 L-AH0 JH-IY0


... when you are trying to get something strong on the table, to move forward an agenda. so i often take a-

W-EH1 N-Y-UW1 AA1-R T-R-AY1 IH0-NG T-UW1 G-EH1-T S-AH1-M TH-IH0-NG-S T-R-AO1 NG-AA1-N DH-AH0 T-EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 M-UW1-V F-AO1 R-W-ER0 D-AE1 N-AH0 JH-EH1-N D-AH0 S-OW1 AY1 AO1 F-AH0-N T-EY1 K-AH0


... a basic situational analysis.

AH0 B-EY1 S-IH0-K S-IH2 CH-UW0 EY1 SH-AH0 N-AH0 L-AH0 N-AE1 L-AH0 S-AH0-S


... for, what are the indicators for children?

F-AO1 R-W-AH1 T-AA1-R DH-AH0 IH1-N D-AH0 K-EY2 T-ER0-Z F-AO1-R CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0-N


it was sort of a-


... conversation that had occurred, and it was remarked on and used as a model-

K-AA2-N V-ER0 S-EY1 SH-AH0-N DH-AE1-T HH-AE1 D-AH0 K-ER1 D-AH0-N D-IH1 T-W-AA1 Z-R-IH0 M-AA1-R-K T-AA1 N-AH0-N D-Y-UW1-Z D-AE1 Z-AH0 M-AA1 D-AH0-L


... in terms, let's go back to the global policy. and very-

IH0-N T-ER1-M Z-L-EH1-T-S G-OW1 B-AE1-K T-UW1 DH-AH0 G-L-OW1 B-AH0-L P-AA1 L-AH0 S-IY0 AH0-N-D V-EH1 R-IY0


and we're not just talking about the growing child. we're talking about the-

AH0-N D-W-ER0 N-AA1-T JH-AH1-S-T T-AO1 K-IH0 NG-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 G-R-OW1 IH0-NG CH-AY1-L D-W-ER0 T-AO1 K-IH0 NG-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0


... context around the child, the services that the child is-

K-AA1-N T-EH0-K-S T-ER0 AW1-N-D DH-AH0 CH-AY1-L-D DH-AH0 S-ER1 V-AH0 S-AH0-Z DH-AE1-T DH-AH0 CH-AY1-L D-IH1-Z


so in order to achieve that, there isn't one global policy, they sort of-

S-OW1 IH0 N-AO1-R D-ER0 T-UW1 AH0 CH-IY1-V DH-AE1-T DH-EH1 R-IH1 S-AH0-N T-W-AH1-N G-L-OW1 B-AH0-L P-AA1 L-AH0 S-IY0 DH-EY1 S-AO1-R T-AH1-V


... like the convention on the rights of the child, the ilo conventions-

L-AY1-K DH-AH0 K-AH0-N V-EH1-N SH-AH0 N-AA1-N DH-AH0 R-AY1-T S-AH1-V DH-AH0 CH-AY1-L-D DH-AH0 AY1 L-OW0 K-AH0-N V-EH1-N SH-AH0-N-Z


... on prevention against child labor, those conventions.

AA1-N P-R-IY0 V-EH1-N SH-AH0 N-AH0 G-EH1-N-S-T CH-AY1-L D-L-EY1 B-ER0 DH-OW1-Z K-AH0-N V-EH1-N SH-AH0-N-Z


and then there are the declarations. the declarations are, the mdgs are the most-

AH0-N-D DH-EH1-N DH-EH1 R-AA1-R DH-AH0 D-EH2 K-L-ER0 EY1 SH-AH0-N-Z DH-AH0 D-EH2 K-L-ER0 EY1 SH-AH0-N Z-AA1-R DH-AH0 M-EH1-D Z-AA1-R DH-AH0 M-OW1-S-T


okay.the education for all, goal, the health for all, goal. so-

AA1 K-AH0 TH-IY0 EH2 JH-AH0 K-EY1 SH-AH0-N F-AO1 R-AO1-L G-OW1-L DH-AH0 HH-EH1-L-TH F-AO1 R-AO1-L G-OW1-L S-OW1


where early childhood fits in is that it gets piecemeal attention.

W-EH1 R-ER1 L-IY0 CH-AY1-L-D HH-UH2-D F-IH1-T S-IH0 N-IH1-Z DH-AE1 T-IH1-T G-EH1-T-S P-IY1 S-M-IY2 L-AH0 T-EH1-N SH-AH0-N


so you see this sort of an attention to early childhood, there isn't-

S-OW1 Y-UW1 S-IY1 DH-IH1-S S-AO1-R T-AH1 V-AE1 N-AH0 T-EH1-N SH-AH0-N T-UW1 ER1 L-IY0 CH-AY1-L-D HH-UH2-D DH-EH1 R-IH1 S-AH0-N-T


... a meeting we had in [bell agio 00:08:04]-

AH0 M-IY1 T-IH0 NG-W-IY1 HH-AE1 D-IH0-N B-EH1 L-AA1 JH-IY0 OW0 Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0 Z-EY1 T-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-AO1-R S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


... look at the state of evidence on early childhood with respect to-

L-UH1 K-AE1-T DH-AH0-S T-EY1 T-AH1 V-EH1 V-AH0 D-AH0-N S-AA1 N-ER1 L-IY0 CH-AY1-L-D HH-UH2 D-W-IH1 DH-R-IH0-S P-EH1-K-T T-UW1


... can we really come up with a framework to inform these international drivers, international drivers that push national policies in a way that children get-

K-AE1 N-W-IY1 R-IH1 L-IY0 K-AH1 M-AH1 P-W-IH1 DH-AH0 F-R-EY1 M-W-ER2-K T-UW1 IH0-N F-AO1-R-M DH-IY1 Z-IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L D-R-AY1 V-ER0 Z-IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L D-R-AY1 V-ER0-Z DH-AE1-T P-UH1 SH-N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-L P-AA1 L-AH0 S-IY0 Z-IH0 N-AH0 W-EY1 DH-AE1-T CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0-N G-EH1-T


... if you know, we're really getting the full child.sure.and this was a very interesting-

IH1 F-Y-UW1 N-OW1 W-ER0 R-IH1 L-IY0 G-EH1 T-IH0-NG DH-AH0 F-UH1-L CH-IY2-L D-IY0 R-EH1-S T-AH0-N DH-IH1 S-W-AA1 Z-AH0 V-EH1 R-IY0 IH1-N T-R-AH0-S T-IH0-NG


... what can we put together, to talk to these big declarations, to see if there's a greater inclusion of young children.and what came out of the meeting?

W-AH1-T K-AE1 N-W-IY1 P-UH1-T T-AH0 G-EH1 DH-ER0 T-UW1 T-AO1-K T-UW1 DH-IY1-Z B-IH1-G D-EH2 K-L-ER0 EY1 SH-AH0-N-Z T-UW1 S-IY1 IH1-F DH-EH1-R Z-AH0 G-R-EY1 T-ER0 IH0-N K-L-UW1 ZH-AH0 N-AH1 V-Y-AH1-NG CH-IH1-L D-R-IH0 N-AH0-N D-W-AH1-T K-EY1 M-AW1 T-AH1-V DH-AH0 M-IY1 T-IH0-NG


... private sector, and how can we put these together to really understand-

P-R-AY1 V-AH0-T S-EH1-K T-ER0 AH0-N-D HH-AW1 K-AE1 N-W-IY1 P-UH1-T DH-IY1-Z T-AH0 G-EH1 DH-ER0 T-UW1 R-IH1 L-IY0 AH2-N D-ER0-S T-AE1-N-D


... what is the strongest provisions for children, and how are we, in some ways, maybe not-

W-AH1 T-IH1-Z DH-AH0-S T-R-AO1-NG G-AH0-S-T P-R-AH0 V-IH1 ZH-AH0-N-Z F-AO1-R CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-AH0-N-D HH-AW1 AA1 R-W-IY1 IH0-N S-AH1 M-W-EY1 Z-M-EY1 B-IY0 N-AA1-T


... as attentive to the fullest potential, if we cut up-

AE1 Z-AH0 T-EH1-N T-IH0-V T-UW1 DH-AH0 F-UH1 L-AH0-S-T P-AH0 T-EH1-N SH-AH0 L-IH1 F-W-IY1 K-AH1 T-AH1-P


... we have a ways to go, but this-

W-IY1 HH-AE1 V-AH0 W-EY1-Z T-UW1 G-OW1 B-AH1-T DH-IH1-S


so for the most, i would say the pieces to this that come together in an interesting tapestry-

S-OW1 F-AO1-R DH-AH0 M-OW1-S T-AY1 W-UH1-D S-EY1 DH-AH0 P-IY1 S-AH0-Z T-UW1 DH-IH1-S DH-AE1-T K-AH1-M T-AH0 G-EH1 DH-ER0 IH0 N-AE1 N-IH1-N T-R-AH0-S T-IH0-NG T-AE1 P-AH0-S T-R-IY0


... but then there, isn't a linear arrangement around it.

B-AH1-T DH-EH1-N DH-EH1 R-IH1 S-AH0-N T-AH0 L-IH1 N-IY0 ER0 ER0 EY1-N JH-M-AH0-N T-ER0 AW1-N D-IH1-T


one piece i find that it's quite remarkable is-

W-AH1-N P-IY1 S-AY1 F-AY1-N-D DH-AE1 T-IH1-T-S K-W-AY1 T-R-IH0 M-AA1-R K-AH0 B-AH0 L-IH1-Z


oftentimes parents or key caregivers in the family are not aware of the importance of these early years, and that learning does begin at birth-

AO1 F-AH0-N T-AY2-M-Z P-EH1 R-AH0-N-T S-AO1-R K-IY1 K-EH1-R G-IH2 V-ER0 Z-IH0-N DH-AH0 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 AA1-R N-AA1 T-AH0 W-EH1 R-AH1-V DH-AH0 IH0-M P-AO1-R T-AH0-N S-AH1-V DH-IY1 Z-ER1 L-IY0 Y-IH1-R Z-AH0-N-D DH-AE1 T-L-ER1 N-IH0-NG D-AH1-Z B-IH0 G-IH1 N-AE1-T B-ER1-TH


... and that everything we do with young children enhances their capacity, and their ability, and their potential.

AH0-N-D DH-AE1 T-EH1 V-R-IY0 TH-IH2 NG-W-IY1 D-UW1 W-IH1 DH-Y-AH1-NG CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-EH0-N HH-AE1-N S-IH0-Z DH-EH1-R K-AH0 P-AE1 S-AH0 T-IY0 AH0-N-D DH-EH1 R-AH0 B-IH1 L-AH0 T-IY0 AH0-N-D DH-EH1-R P-AH0 T-EH1-N SH-AH0-L


there is a universal recognition of wanting your children to be healthy, to be happy-

DH-EH1 R-IH1 Z-AH0 Y-UW2 N-AH0 V-ER1 S-AH0-L R-EH2 K-AH0 G-N-IH1 SH-AH0 N-AH1 V-W-AA1-N T-IH0 NG-Y-AO1-R CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0-N T-UW1 B-IY1 HH-EH1-L TH-IY0 T-UW1 B-IY1 HH-AE1 P-IY0


i've done focus groups with remote populations in-

AY1-V D-AH1-N F-OW1 K-AH0-S G-R-UW1-P S-W-IH1 DH-R-IH0 M-OW1-T P-AA2 P-Y-AH0 L-EY1 SH-AH0-N Z-IH0-N


[crosstalk 00:00:16] and laos. i've done focus groups in families and sort of very educated in singapore. and you ask them, "what do you want for your children?" and they all say-

K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z Z-IH1 R-OW0 M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D S-IH0-K-S T-IY1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D Z-AH0-N D-L-AA1 OW0 S-AY1-V D-AH1-N F-OW1 K-AH0-S G-R-UW1-P S-IH0-N F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 Z-AH0-N-D S-AO1-R T-AH1-V V-EH1 R-IY0 EH1 JH-AH0 K-EY2 T-AH0 D-IH0-N S-IH1 NG-AH0 P-AO2 R-AH0-N D-Y-UW1 AE1-S-K DH-EH1 M-W-AH1-T D-UW1 Y-UW1 W-AA1-N-T F-AO1 R-Y-AO1-R CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-AH0-N-D DH-EY1 AO1-L S-EY1


"we want healthy children. we want our children to be happy, to be successful."

W-IY1 W-AA1-N-T HH-EH1-L TH-IY0 CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-W-IY1 W-AA1-N T-AW1 ER0 CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0-N T-UW1 B-IY1 HH-AE1 P-IY0 T-UW1 B-IY1 S-AH0-K S-EH1-S F-AH0-L


and once families, mm, public will build to demand from the government and we see what demand can do. recently, we are-

AH0-N D-W-AH1-N-S F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 Z-M-EH1-M P-AH1 B-L-IH0 K-W-IH1-L B-IH1-L-D T-UW1 D-IH0 M-AE1-N-D F-R-AH1-M DH-AH0 G-AH1 V-ER0 M-AH0-N T-AH0-N D-W-IY1 S-IY1 W-AH1-T D-IH0 M-AE1-N-D K-AE1-N D-UW1 R-IY1 S-AH0-N T-L-IY0 W-IY1 AA1-R


... seeing a lot of changes.sure. yes.once-

S-IY1 IH0 NG-AH0 L-AA1 T-AH1-V CH-EY1-N JH-AH2 S-ER0 Y-EH1 S-AH0-N-S


... we will see service provision change. we will-

W-IY1 W-IH1-L S-IY1 S-ER1 V-AH0-S P-R-AH0 V-IH1 ZH-AH0-N CH-EY1-N JH-W-IY1 W-IH1-L


but education really is the first step.it's the first step and there is a very key link between particularly maternal education, maternal [crosstalk 00:01:08]-

B-AH1 T-EH2 JH-AH0 K-EY1 SH-AH0 N-R-IH1 L-IY0 IH1-Z DH-AH0 F-ER1-S-T-S T-EH1-P D-AA1 T-IH1-T K-W-OW1 T-EH1-S DH-AH0 F-ER1-S-T-S T-EH1 P-AH0-N-D DH-EH1 R-IH1 Z-AH0 V-EH1 R-IY0 K-IY1 L-IH1-NG-K B-IH0 T-W-IY1-N P-AA2-R T-IH1 K-Y-AH0 L-ER0 L-IY0 M-AH0 T-ER1 N-AH0 L-EH2 JH-AH0 K-EY1 SH-AH0-N M-AH0 T-ER1 N-AH0-L K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0 Z-W-AH1-N M-IH1 N-AH0 T-AH0-N D-EY1-T S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


the problem with scaling up is there are not sufficient trained individuals to actually take it forward.right.and so the quality of-

DH-AH0 P-R-AA1 B-L-AH0 M-W-IH1-DH-S K-EY1 L-IH0 NG-AH1 P-IH1-Z DH-EH1 R-AA1-R N-AA1-T S-AH0 F-IH1 SH-AH0-N-T T-R-EY1-N D-IH2-N D-AH0 V-IH1 JH-AH0 W-AH0-L-Z T-UW1 AE1-K CH-AH0 W-AH0 L-IY0 T-EY1 K-IH1-T F-AO2-R F-R-EY1-T G-AE2-N D-AH0-N S-OW1 DH-AH0 K-W-AA1 L-AH0 T-IY0 AH1-V


and if we had systems to actually enhance capacity, to build training-

AH0-N D-IH1 F-W-IY1 HH-AE1-D S-IH1-S T-AH0-M-Z T-UW1 AE1-K CH-AH0 W-AH0 L-IY0 EH0-N HH-AE1-N-S K-AH0 P-AE1 S-AH0 T-IY0 T-UW1 B-IH1-L-D T-R-EY1 N-IH0-NG


... models, we could reach a large number of populations-

M-AA1 D-AH0-L Z-W-IY1 K-UH1 D-R-IY1 CH-AH0 L-AA1-R JH-N-AH1-M B-ER0 AH1-V P-AA2 P-Y-AH0 L-EY1 SH-AH0-N-Z


... families, children. we are not reaching now. the advantage to all of this is we have technology. no longer are we bound-

F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0-Z CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-W-IY1 AA1-R N-AA1 T-R-IY1 CH-IH0-NG N-AW1 DH-AH0 AE0-D V-AE1-N T-IH0-JH T-UW1 AO1 L-AH1-V DH-IH1 S-IH1 Z-W-IY1 HH-AE1-V T-EH0 K-N-AA1 L-AH0 JH-IY0 N-OW1 L-AO1-NG G-ER0 AA1 R-W-IY1 B-AW1-N-D


...into classrooms. the walls have exploded, have expanded. and [crosstalk 00:01:47] -

IH0-N T-UW1 K-L-AE1 S-R-UW2-M-Z DH-AH0 W-AO1-L-Z HH-AE1 V-IH0-K-S P-L-OW1 D-AH0-D HH-AE1 V-IH0-K-S P-AE1-N D-AH0 D-AH0-N-D K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0 Z-W-AH1-N M-IH1 N-AH0 T-AH0-N-D F-AO1-R T-IY0 S-EH1 V-AH0-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


and, finally, i think we need stronger arguments.

AH0-N-D F-AY1 N-AH0 L-IY0 AY1 TH-IH1-NG K-W-IY1 N-IY1-D-S T-R-AO1 NG-ER0 AA1-R G-Y-AH0 M-AH0-N-T-S


... economic development of countries. we have it.

EH2 K-AH0 N-AA1 M-IH0-K D-IH0 V-EH1 L-AH0 P-M-AH0-N T-AH1-V K-AH1-N T-R-IY0 Z-W-IY1 HH-AE1 V-IH1-T


governments are not going to wait 20 years for that to mature.

G-AH1 V-ER0 M-AH0-N-T S-AA1-R N-AA1-T G-OW1 IH0-NG T-UW1 W-EY1-T T-W-EH1-N T-IY0 Y-IH1-R-Z F-AO1-R DH-AE1-T T-UW1 M-AH0 CH-UH1-R


mm-hmm (affirmative).you want more immediate-

M-AH1 M-AE2 F-ER0 M-AH0 T-IY1 AH0 F-IY0 W-AA1-N T-M-AO1 R-IH0 M-IY1 D-IY0 AH0-T


... return. you want a short-term return. that needs to be strengthened for there to be a greater buy-in and investment and interest in this work. and i think [crosstalk 00:02:13]-

R-IH0 T-ER1 N-Y-UW1 W-AA1-N T-AH0 SH-AO1-R-T T-ER2 M-R-IH0 T-ER1-N DH-AE1 T-N-IY1-D-Z T-UW1 B-IY1-S T-R-EH1-NG TH-AH0-N-D F-AO1-R DH-EH1-R T-UW1 B-IY1 AH0 G-R-EY1 T-ER0 B-AY1 IH0 N-AH0-N D-IH0-N V-EH1-S T-M-AH0-N T-AH0-N D-IH1-N T-R-AH0-S T-IH0-N DH-IH1 S-W-ER1 K-AH0-N D-AY1 TH-IH1-NG-K K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z T-UW1 M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D TH-ER1 T-IY1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


...a very sad story is-

AH0 V-EH1 R-IY0 S-AE1-D-S T-AO1 R-IY0 IH1-Z


... one third of young children under five years of age is not achieving their full potential.

W-AH1-N TH-ER1 D-AH1 V-Y-AH1-NG CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0 N-AH1-N D-ER0 F-AY1 V-Y-IH1-R Z-AH1 V-EY1 JH-IH1 Z-N-AA1 T-AH0 CH-IY1 V-IH0-NG DH-EH1-R F-UH1-L P-AH0 T-EH1-N SH-AH0-L


wow.when we started multiplying that into a loss of human potential around the world-yes-

W-AW1 W-AH0 N-W-IY1-S T-AA1-R T-AH0 D-M-AH1-L T-AH0 P-L-AY2 IH0-NG DH-AE1 T-IH0-N T-UW1 AH0 L-AO1 S-AH1-V HH-Y-UW1 M-AH0-N P-AH0 T-EH1-N SH-AH0 L-ER0 AW1-N-D DH-AH0 W-ER1-L D-AY2 Z-IH0-Z


very sad.that is pretty startling.

V-EH1 R-IY0 S-AE1-D TH-AE0 T-IH1-Z P-R-IH1 T-IY0-S T-AA1-R T-L-IH0-NG


well, you're doing wonderful work-

W-EH1 L-Y-UH1-R D-UW1 IH0 NG-W-AH1-N D-ER0 F-AH0 L-W-ER1-K


...made possible through funding from the whitney and betty macmillan center for international and area studies at yale.

M-EY1-D P-AA1 S-AH0 B-AH0-L TH-R-UW1 F-AH1-N D-IH0-NG F-R-AH1-M DH-AH0 W-IH1 T-N-IY0 AH0-N-D B-EH1 T-IY0 M-AH0 K-M-IH1 L-AH0-N S-EH1-N T-ER0 F-AO1 R-IH2-N T-ER0 N-AE1 SH-AH0 N-AH0 L-AH0-N D-EH1 R-IY0 AH0-S T-AH1 D-IY0 Z-AE1 T-Y-EY1-L


welcome to the macmillan report. i'm marilyn wilkes, your host, and our guest is cheryl doss, a [crosstalk 00:02:51]-

W-EH1-L K-AH0-M T-UW1 DH-AH0 M-AH0 K-M-IH1 L-AH0 N-R-IY0 P-AO1-R T-AY1 AE1-M M-EH1 R-AH0 L-AH0 N-W-IH1-L-K S-Y-AO1-R HH-OW1-S T-AH0-N D-AW1 ER0 G-EH1-S T-IH1-Z SH-EH1 R-AH0-L D-AO1 S-AH0 K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z T-UW1 M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 W-AH1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D


... whose interested in how social and economic changes affect the dynamics of decision-making within households. [crosstalk 00:02:59]-

HH-UW1 Z-IH1-N T-R-AH0-S T-AH0 D-IH0-N HH-AW1 S-OW1 SH-AH0 L-AH0-N D-EH2 K-AH0 N-AA1 M-IH0-K CH-EY1-N JH-AH0 Z-AH0 F-EH1-K-T DH-AH0 D-AY0 N-AE1 M-IH0-K S-AH1-V D-IH0 S-IH1 ZH-AH0-N M-EY2 K-IH0 NG-W-IH0 DH-IH1-N HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D-Z K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z T-UW1 M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 N-AY1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


... rural households, especially in africa. what led you to it?

R-UH1 R-AH0-L HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-AH0-S P-EH1 SH-L-IY0 IH0 N-AE1 F-R-AH0 K-AH0 W-AH1 T-L-EH1 D-Y-UW1 T-UW1 IH1-T


[crosstalk 00:03:05], it turns out that most of the models of households treated households as though they were individuals.

K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z TH-R-IY1 M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-AY1-V S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D Z-IH1-T T-ER1-N Z-AW1-T DH-AE1 T-M-OW1-S T-AH1-V DH-AH0 M-AA1 D-AH0-L Z-AH1-V HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D-Z T-R-IY1 T-AH0-D HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-AE1-Z DH-OW1 DH-EY1 W-ER0 IH2-N D-AH0 V-IH1 JH-AH0 W-AH0-L-Z


but, in fact, we know that's not how households make decisions. most of us in our households have-

B-AH1 T-IH0-N F-AE1-K T-W-IY1 N-OW1 TH-AE1-T S-N-AA1-T HH-AW1 HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-M-EY1-K D-IH0 S-IH1 ZH-AH0-N Z-M-OW1-S T-AH1 V-AH1 S-IH0 N-AW1 ER0 HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D-Z HH-AE1-V


... many people. and although we may agree on many things, we probably don't agree on everything.

M-EH1 N-IY0 P-IY1 P-AH0 L-AH0-N D-AO2-L DH-OW1 W-IY1 M-EY1 AH0 G-R-IY1 AA1-N M-EH1 N-IY0 TH-IH1-NG Z-W-IY1 P-R-AA1 B-AH0 B-L-IY0 D-AA1-N T-AH0 G-R-IY1 AA1 N-EH1 V-R-IY0 TH-IH2-NG


and so trying to understand about the dynamics of what happens in households-

AH0-N-D S-OW1 T-R-AY1 IH0-NG T-UW1 AH2-N D-ER0-S T-AE1-N D-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 D-AY0 N-AE1 M-IH0-K S-AH1 V-W-AH1-T HH-AE1 P-AH0-N Z-IH0-N HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D-Z


... is really important, because it affects the outcomes. so when women have more power in households or less power in households, when women earn more of the income-

IH1 Z-R-IH1 L-IY0 IH0-M P-AO1-R T-AH0-N-T B-IH0 K-AO1 Z-IH1 T-AH0 F-EH1-K-T-S DH-AH0 AW1-T K-AH2-M-Z S-OW1 W-EH1 N-W-IH1 M-AH0-N HH-AE1 V-M-AO1-R P-AW1 ER0 IH0-N HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-AO1-R L-EH1-S P-AW1 ER0 IH0-N HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-W-EH1 N-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-ER1-N M-AO1 R-AH1-V DH-AH0 IH1-N K-AH2-M


... or as we're starting to learn, when women own some-

AO1 R-AE1 Z-W-ER0-S T-AA1-R T-IH0-NG T-UW1 L-ER1 N-W-EH1 N-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-OW1-N S-AH1-M


... of the assets, it actually affects the kinds of decisions that households make. if you're rural households in africa-

AH1-V DH-AH0 AE1 S-EH2-T S-IH1 T-AE1-K CH-AH0 W-AH0 L-IY0 AH0 F-EH1-K-T-S DH-AH0 K-AY1-N-D Z-AH1-V D-IH0 S-IH1 ZH-AH0-N-Z DH-AE1-T HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-M-EY1 K-IH1 F-Y-UH1-R R-UH1 R-AH0-L HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-IH0 N-AE1 F-R-AH0 K-AH0


... as well, but also decisions about sending children to school, healthcare, and various other kinds of things.

AE1 Z-W-EH1-L B-AH1 T-AO1-L S-OW0 D-IH0 S-IH1 ZH-AH0-N Z-AH0 B-AW1-T S-EH1-N D-IH0-NG CH-IH1-L D-R-AH0-N T-UW1-S K-UW1-L HH-EH1-L-TH K-EH2 R-AH0-N-D V-EH1 R-IY0 AH0 S-AH1 DH-ER0 K-AY1-N-D Z-AH1-V TH-IH1-NG-Z


i know you've done a lot of work, as you mentioned, in liberia and also uganda. how-

AY1 N-OW1 Y-UW1-V D-AH1 N-AH0 L-AA1 T-AH1 V-W-ER1 K-AE1 Z-Y-UW1 M-EH1-N SH-AH0-N D-IH0 N-L-AY0 B-IH1 R-IY0 AH0 AH0-N D-AO1-L S-OW0 Y-UW0 G-AE1-N D-AH0 HH-AW1


... is land acquisition and tenure changing in these countries?

IH1 Z-L-AE1-N D-AE2 K-W-AH0 Z-IH1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N-D T-EH1 N-Y-ER0 CH-EY1-N JH-IH0 NG-IH0-N DH-IY1-Z K-AH1-N T-R-IY0-Z


of land ownership, which may not even be ownership in the sense that we understand it.mm-hmm (affirmative).

AH1 V-L-AE1-N D-OW1 N-ER0 SH-IH2 P-W-IH1 CH-M-EY1 N-AA1 T-IY1 V-IH0-N B-IY1 OW1 N-ER0 SH-IH2 P-IH0-N DH-AH0 S-EH1-N-S DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 AH2-N D-ER0-S T-AE1-N D-IH1 T-M-AH0 F-AH0 F-ER1 M-AH0 T-IH0-V


it may simply be that particular households have a right-

IH1 T-M-EY1 S-IH1-M P-L-IY0 B-IY1 DH-AE1-T P-ER0 T-IH1 K-Y-AH0 L-ER0 HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D-Z HH-AE1 V-AH0 R-AY1-T


... to farm a particular plot of land.

T-UW1 F-AA1-R M-AH0 P-ER0 T-IH1 K-Y-AH0 L-ER0 P-L-AA1 T-AH1 V-L-AE1-N-D


but many of them don't have any kind of documents for ownership.

B-AH1 T-M-EH1 N-IY0 AH1-V DH-EH1-M D-AA1-N-T HH-AE1 V-EH1 N-IY0 K-AY1-N D-AH1-V D-AA1 K-Y-AH0 M-AH0-N-T-S F-AO1 R-OW1 N-ER0 SH-IH2-P


wow.that's worked traditionally, fairly well-

W-AW1 TH-AH0-T S-W-ER1-K-T T-R-AH0 D-IH1 SH-AH0 N-AH0 L-IY0 F-EH1-R L-IY0 W-EH1-L


... but both as some of the social structures have broken down, particularly in uganda.

B-AH1-T B-OW1 TH-AE1-Z S-AH1 M-AH1-V DH-AH0 S-OW1 SH-AH0-L-S T-R-AH1-K CH-ER0-Z HH-AE1-V B-R-OW1 K-AH0-N D-AW1-N P-AA2-R T-IH1 K-Y-AH0 L-ER0 L-IY0 IH0 N-Y-UW0 G-AE1-N D-AH0


so we used to hear lots of stories that when a man dies of aids, that often his widow will lose-

S-OW1 W-IY1 Y-UW1-S-T T-UW1 HH-IY1-R L-AA1-T S-AH1-V-S T-AO1 R-IY0-Z DH-AE1 T-W-EH1 N-AH0 M-AE1-N D-AY1 Z-AH1 V-EY1-D-Z DH-AE1 T-AO1 F-AH0-N HH-IH1 Z-W-IH1 D-OW0 W-IH1-L L-UW1-Z


... access to the land that she had been farming. she doesn't, herself, have claims-

AE1-K S-EH2-S T-UW1 DH-AH0 L-AE1-N-D DH-AE1-T SH-IY1 HH-AE1-D B-IH1-N F-AA1-R M-IH0-NG SH-IY1 D-OW1 S-AH0-N-T HH-ER0 S-EH1-L-F HH-AE1-V K-L-EY1-M-Z


[crosstalk 00:05:16] systems are starting to break down. and so, in particular-

K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z F-AY1 V-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D S-IH0-K-S T-IY1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z S-IH1-S T-AH0-M Z-AA1-R-S T-AA1-R T-IH0-NG T-UW1 B-R-EY1-K D-AW1 N-AH0-N-D S-OW1 IH0-N P-ER0 T-IH1 K-Y-AH0 L-ER0


... it's really important.

IH1-T S-R-IH1 L-IY0 IH0-M P-AO1-R T-AH0-N-T


do women typically own the land or is it primarily men?

D-UW1 W-IH1 M-AH0-N T-IH1 P-IH0 K-L-IY0 OW1-N DH-AH0 L-AE1-N D-AO1 R-IH1 Z-IH1-T P-R-AY0 M-EH1 R-AH0 L-IY0 M-EH1-N


so it will depend on what you mean by own. so in the-

S-OW1 IH1 T-W-IH1-L D-IH0 P-EH1-N D-AA1 N-W-AH1 T-Y-UW1 M-IY1-N B-AY1 OW1-N S-OW1 IH0-N DH-AH0


... work we did in uganda, over half of the households, when you actually asked them who owns the land-

W-ER1 K-W-IY1 D-IH1 D-IH0 N-Y-UW0 G-AE1-N D-AH0 OW1 V-ER0 HH-AE1 F-AH1-V DH-AH0 HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-W-EH1 N-Y-UW1 AE1-K CH-AH0 W-AH0 L-IY0 AE1-S-K-T DH-EH1-M HH-UW1 OW1-N-Z DH-AH0 L-AE1-N-D


so "we own the land,"-


... both when we asked husbands and when we asked wives-

B-OW1 TH-W-EH1 N-W-IY1 AE1-S-K-T HH-AH1-Z B-AH0-N-D Z-AH0-N D-W-EH1 N-W-IY1 AE1-S-K T-W-AY1-V-Z


[crosstalk 00:05:45] worse off than they had been previously with these changes happening, or is that incorrect?

K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z F-AY1 V-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-AO1-R T-IY0 F-AY1-V S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D Z-W-ER1 S-AO1-F DH-AE1-N DH-EY1 HH-AE1-D B-IH1-N P-R-IY1 V-IY0 AH0 S-L-IY0 W-IH1-DH DH-IY1-Z CH-EY1-N JH-AH0-Z HH-AE1 P-AH0 N-IH0 NG-AO1 R-IH1-Z DH-AE1 T-IH0-N K-ER0 EH1-K-T


they may be worse off. there could be cases where they're becoming better off too.mm-hmm (affirmative).if they have [crosstalk 00:05:59]-

DH-EY1 M-EY1 B-IY1 W-ER1 S-AO1-F DH-EH1-R K-UH1-D B-IY1 K-EY1 S-AH0 Z-W-EH1-R TH-EH1-R B-IH0 K-AH1 M-IH0-NG B-EH1 T-ER0 AO1-F T-UW1-M HH-AH0 M-AE2 F-ER0 M-AH0 T-EH1 S-IH0-T DH-EY1 HH-AE1-V K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z F-AY1 V-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 N-AY1-N S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


... who have really strong claims to the land. and then there's other women, but also other-

HH-UW1 HH-AE1 V-R-IH1 L-IY0-S T-R-AO1-NG K-L-EY1-M-Z T-UW1 DH-AH0 L-AE1-N D-AH0-N-D DH-EH1-N DH-EH1-R Z-AH1 DH-ER0 W-IH1 M-AH0-N B-AH1 T-AO1-L S-OW0 AH1 DH-ER0


i'm curious to know how you do your methodology, given the topic of households dynamics, do you actually go in and live with anyone for a time or-

IH1-M K-Y-UH1 R-IY0 AH0-S T-UW1 N-OW1 HH-AW1 Y-UW1 D-UW1 Y-AO1-R M-EH2 TH-AH0 D-AA1 L-AH0 JH-IY0 G-IH1 V-AH0-N DH-AH0 T-AA1 P-IH0 K-AH1-V HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D-Z D-AY0 N-AE1 M-IH0-K-S D-UW1 Y-UW1 AE1-K CH-AH0 W-AH0 L-IY0 G-OW1 IH0 N-AH0-N D-L-AY1 V-W-IH1 DH-EH1 N-IY0 W-AH2-N F-AO1 R-AH0 T-AY1 M-AO1-R


so in uganda, we interviewed about 350 households in three different districts, asking them questions about ownership, about documents, about their rights over the land.

S-OW1 IH0 N-Y-UW0 G-AE1-N D-AH0 W-IY1 IH1-N T-ER0 V-Y-UW2 D-AH0 B-AW1-T TH-R-IY1 HH-AH1-N D-R-AH0 D-AH0-N-D F-IH1-F T-IY0 HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-IH0-N TH-R-IY1 D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N-T D-IH1-S T-R-IH0-K-T S-AE1-S K-IH0-NG DH-EH1-M K-W-EH1-S CH-AH0-N Z-AH0 B-AW1 T-OW1 N-ER0 SH-IH2 P-AH0 B-AW1-T D-AA1 K-Y-AH0 M-AH0-N-T S-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-EH1-R R-AY1-T S-OW1 V-ER0 DH-AH0 L-AE1-N-D


[crosstalk 00:06:33]. can you make the decision on your own or do you have to consult with somebody else?

K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z S-IH1-K S-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D TH-ER1 D-IY0 TH-R-IY1 S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z K-AE1 N-Y-UW1 M-EY1-K DH-AH0 D-IH0 S-IH1 ZH-AH0 N-AA1 N-Y-AO1 R-OW1 N-AO1-R D-UW1 Y-UW1 HH-AE1-V T-UW1 K-AH0-N S-AH1-L T-W-IH1-DH S-AH1-M B-AA2 D-IY0 EH1-L-S


do you have the right to bequeath? it can you-

D-UW1 Y-UW1 HH-AE1-V DH-AH0 R-AY1-T T-UW1 B-IH0 K-W-IY1 TH-IH1-T K-AE1 N-Y-UW1


... what does it mean? what does that bundle of rights that we think that we think of in the west as being-

W-AH1-T D-AH1 Z-IH1 T-M-IY1 N-W-AH1-T D-AH1-Z DH-AE1-T B-AH1-N D-AH0 L-AH1 V-R-AY1-T-S DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 TH-IH1-NG-K DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 TH-IH1-NG K-AH1 V-IH0-N DH-AH0 W-EH1-S T-AE1-Z B-IY1 IH0-NG


but that's not necessarily the case in other places. that bundle of rights may be-

B-AH1-T TH-AE1-T S-N-AA1 T-N-EH2 S-AH0 S-EH1 R-AH0 L-IY0 DH-AH0 K-EY1 S-IH0 N-AH1 DH-ER0 P-L-EY1 S-AH0-Z DH-AE1-T B-AH1-N D-AH0 L-AH1 V-R-AY1-T S-M-EY1 B-IY1


does it vary from place to place on how land ownership is-

D-AH1 Z-IH1-T V-EH1 R-IY0 F-R-AH1-M P-L-EY1-S T-UW1 P-L-EY1 S-AA1-N HH-AW1 L-AE1-N D-OW1 N-ER0 SH-IH2 P-IH1-Z


[crosstalk 00:07:06] systems occur at the same time within one country?okay.

K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0-Z S-EH1 V-AH0-N M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D S-IH1-K-S S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z S-IH1-S T-AH0-M Z-AH0 K-ER1 AE1-T DH-AH0 S-EY1-M T-AY1 M-W-IH0 DH-IH1 N-W-AH1-N K-AW2-N T-R-IY0 K-OW1 K-IY0


are there any trends with the changing taking place in acquisition and tenure?

AA1-R DH-EH1 R-EH1 N-IY0 T-R-EH1-N-D Z-W-IH1-DH DH-AH0 CH-EY1-N JH-IH0-NG T-EY1 K-IH0-NG P-L-EY1 S-IH0 N-AE2 K-W-AH0 Z-IH1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N-D T-EH1 N-Y-ER0


the farm land is controlled by big corporations, so there's very few -

DH-AH0 F-AA1-R M-L-AE1-N D-IH1-Z K-AH0-N T-R-OW1-L-D B-AY1 B-IH1-G K-AO2-R P-ER0 EY1 SH-AH0-N-Z S-OW1 DH-EH1-R-Z V-EH1 R-IY0 F-Y-UW1


... dry hung in this, but it seems like it's mostly small farmers. is that the case or are there-

D-R-AY1 HH-AH1 NG-IH0-N DH-IH1-S B-AH1 T-IH1-T S-IY1-M Z-L-AY1 K-IH1-T S-M-OW1-S T-L-IY0 S-M-AO1-L F-AA1-R M-ER0 Z-IH1-Z DH-AE1-T DH-AH0 K-EY1 S-AO1 R-AA1-R DH-EH1-R


... very...? you had mentioned there are outside companies coming in and buying up land. so how-

V-EH1 R-IY0 Y-UW1 HH-AE1 D-M-EH1-N SH-AH0-N-D DH-EH1 R-AA1 R-AW1-T S-AY1-D K-AH1-M P-AH0 N-IY0-Z K-AH1 M-IH0 NG-IH0 N-AH0-N-D B-AY1 IH0 NG-AH1 P-L-AE1-N-D S-OW1 HH-AW1


... is that changing? are there still a lot of single-households farmers, or are corporations taking more and more of the land?

IH1-Z DH-AE1-T CH-EY1-N JH-IH0 NG-AA1-R DH-EH1-R-S T-IH1 L-AH0 L-AA1 T-AH1-V S-IH1-NG G-AH0 L-OW0 SH-EH2-D-Z F-AA1-R M-ER0 Z-AO1 R-AA1-R K-AO2-R P-ER0 EY1 SH-AH0-N-Z T-EY1 K-IH0-NG M-AO1 R-AH0-N D-M-AO1 R-AH1-V DH-AH0 L-AE1-N-D


but it's still the case that the majority of farmers are small-holder farmers.and [crosstalk 00:08:02]-

B-AH1 T-IH1-T-S-S T-IH1-L DH-AH0 K-EY1-S DH-AE1-T DH-AH0 M-AH0 JH-AO1 R-AH0 T-IY0 AH1-V F-AA1-R M-ER0 Z-AA1-R S-M-AO1-L HH-AO0-L D-ER0 F-AA1-R M-ER0 S-AH0-N-D K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0 Z-EY1 T-M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D T-UW1 S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z


... something particularly surprised you?i think-

S-AH1-M TH-IH0-NG P-AA2-R T-IH1 K-Y-AH0 L-ER0 L-IY0 S-ER0 P-R-AY1-Z D-Y-UW1 IY0 TH-IH1-NG-K


... we were surprised in uganda. and so we do-

W-IY1 W-ER0 S-ER0 P-R-AY1-Z D-IH0 N-Y-UW0 G-AE1-N D-AH0 AH0-N-D S-OW1 W-IY1 D-UW1


... have to go and do a lot of qualitative work.

HH-AE1-V T-UW1 G-OW1 AH0-N-D D-UW1 AH0 L-AA1 T-AH1-V K-W-AA1 L-AH0 T-EY2 T-IH0 V-W-ER1-K


and over and over, we heard statements like, "how can women own property?'

AH0-N D-OW1 V-ER0 AH0-N D-OW1 V-ER0 W-IY1 HH-ER1-D-S T-EY1 T-M-AH0-N-T S-L-AY1-K HH-AW1 K-AE1 N-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-OW1-N P-R-AA1 P-ER0 T-IY0


who were implying that women were property-

HH-UW1 W-ER0 IH0-M P-L-AY1 IH0-NG DH-AE1 T-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-W-ER0 P-R-AA1 P-ER0 T-IY0


... and so how could they be owners of property? and so given that we had heard that, and that that's part of the rhetoric about land and property in uganda-

AH0-N-D S-OW1 HH-AW1 K-UH1-D DH-EY1 B-IY1 OW1 N-ER0 Z-AH1-V P-R-AA1 P-ER0 T-IY0 AH0-N-D S-OW1 G-IH1 V-AH0-N DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 HH-AE1-D HH-ER1-D DH-AE1 T-AH0-N-D DH-AE1-T TH-AE1-T-S P-AA1-R T-AH1-V DH-AH0 R-EH1 T-ER0 IH0 K-AH0 B-AW1 T-L-AE1-N D-AH0-N-D P-R-AA1 P-ER0 T-IY0 IH0 N-Y-UW0 G-AE1-N D-AH0


... we were surprised that in over 50%-

W-IY1 W-ER0 S-ER0 P-R-AY1-Z-D DH-AE1 T-IH0 N-OW1 V-ER0 F-IH1-F T-IY0 P-ER0 S-EH1-N-T


... the households actually functioned pretty well and husband and wife worked together as a team-

DH-AH0 HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D Z-AE1-K CH-AH0 W-AH0 L-IY0 F-AH1-NG-K SH-AH0-N-D P-R-IH1 T-IY0 W-EH1 L-AH0-N-D HH-AH1-Z B-AH0-N D-AH0-N D-W-AY1 F-W-ER1-K-T T-AH0 G-EH1 DH-ER0 AE1 Z-AH0 T-IY1-M


... to produce crops, to raise a family, to do all the things that households do.

T-UW1 P-R-AH0 D-UW1-S K-R-AA1-P-S T-UW1 R-EY1 Z-AH0 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 T-UW1 D-UW1 AO1-L DH-AH0 TH-IH1-NG-Z DH-AE1-T HH-AW1-S HH-OW2-L-D-Z D-UW1


... how to build on the pieces that work. so rather than thinking about just going in and necessarily titling land and-

HH-AW1 T-UW1 B-IH1-L D-AA1-N DH-AH0 P-IY1 S-AH0-Z DH-AE1 T-W-ER1-K S-OW1 R-AE1 DH-ER0 DH-AE1-N TH-IH1-NG K-IH0 NG-AH0 B-AW1-T JH-AH1-S-T G-OW1 IH0 NG-IH0 N-AH0-N D-N-EH2 S-AH0 S-EH1 R-AH0 L-IY0 T-AY1 T-AH0 L-IH0 NG-L-AE1-N D-AH0-N-D


... the rights to farm that land.do you think-

DH-AH0 R-AY1-T-S T-UW1 F-AA1-R-M DH-AE1 T-L-AE1-N D-OW0 Y-UW1 TH-IH1-NG-K


... not necessarily how things work, do you think moving forward policy will be put in place where women are thought of more as equal to men?

N-AA1 T-N-EH2 S-AH0 S-EH1 R-AH0 L-IY0 HH-AW1 TH-IH1-NG Z-W-ER1-K D-UW1 Y-UW1 TH-IH1-NG K-M-UW1 V-IH0-NG F-AO1 R-W-ER0-D P-AA1 L-AH0 S-IY0 W-IH1-L B-IY1 P-UH1 T-IH0-N P-L-EY1 S-W-EH1 R-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-AA1-R TH-AO1 T-AH1 V-M-AO1 R-AE1 Z-IY1 K-W-AH0-L T-UW1 M-EH1-N


[crosstalk 00:09:36] be taking place. so i think some of those kinds of things are changing. there's certainly legislation being discussed that-

K-R-AO1-S T-AO1-K Z-IH1 R-OW0 AW1 ER0 Z-N-AY1-N M-IH1 N-AH0-T S-AH0-N-D TH-ER1 D-IY0 S-IH1-K-S S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D-Z B-IY1 T-EY1 K-IH0-NG P-L-EY1-S S-OW1 AY1 TH-IH1-NG-K S-AH1 M-AH1-V DH-OW1-Z K-AY1-N-D Z-AH1-V TH-IH1-NG Z-AA1-R CH-EY1-N JH-IH0-NG T-IY1 HH-IY1 R-IH1-Z S-ER1 T-AH0 N-L-IY0 L-EH2 JH-AH0 S-L-EY1 SH-AH0-N B-IY1 IH0-NG D-IH0-S K-AH1-S-T DH-AE1-T


and one of the things that we find from doing the comparative work, is that the rules about marriage and inheritance play a big part in terms of what women-

AH0-N D-W-AH1 N-AH1-V DH-AH0 TH-IH1-NG-Z DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 F-AY1-N-D F-R-AH1-M D-UW1 IH0-NG DH-AH0 K-AH0-M P-EH1 R-AH0 T-IH0 V-W-ER1 K-IH1-Z DH-AE1-T DH-AH0 R-UW1-L Z-AH0 B-AW1 T-M-EH1 R-IH0 JH-AH0-N D-IH0-N HH-EH1 R-AH0 T-AH0-N-S P-L-EY1 AH0 B-IH1-G P-AA1-R T-IH0-N T-ER1-M Z-AH1 V-W-AH1 T-W-IH1 M-AH0-N


and what women have access to.

AH0-N D-W-AH1 T-W-IH1 M-AH0-N HH-AE1 V-AE1-K S-EH2-S T-UW1


so that in places where

S-OW1 DH-AE1 T-IH0-N P-L-EY1 S-AH0 Z-W-EH1-R


... women, when you're married, you jointly own all of the marital property. that gives women much more ownership of assets than-

W-IH1 M-AH0 N-W-EH1 N-Y-UH1-R M-EH1 R-IY0 D-Y-UW1 JH-OY1-N T-L-IY0 OW1 N-AO1 L-AH1-V DH-AH0 M-EH1 R-AH0 T-AH0-L P-R-AA1 P-ER0 T-IY0 DH-AE1-T G-IH1-V Z-W-IH1 M-AH0-N M-AH1 CH-M-AO1 R-OW1 N-ER0 SH-IH2 P-AH1 V-AE1 S-EH2-T-S DH-AE1-N


places where you still own.

P-L-EY1 S-AH0 Z-W-EH1 R-Y-UW1-S T-IH1 L-OW1-N


assets individually, regardless of whether you're married. so in many places, including in uganda, there's

AE1 S-EH2-T S-IH2-N D-IH0 V-IH1 JH-UW0 AH0 L-IY0 R-AH0 G-AA1-R D-L-AH0 S-AH1 V-W-EH1 DH-ER0 Y-UH1-R M-EH1 R-IY0-D S-OW1 IH0-N M-EH1 N-IY0 P-L-EY1 S-AH0 Z-IH0-N K-L-UW1 D-IH0 NG-IH0 N-Y-UW0 G-AE1-N D-AH0 DH-EH1-R-Z


it's in whatever she has is hers. women clearly.

IH1-T S-IH0 N-W-AH2 T-EH1 V-ER0 SH-IY1 HH-AE1 Z-IH1-Z HH-ER0 Z-W-IH1 M-AH0-N K-L-IH1-R L-IY0


take more time out of the workforce.

T-EY1 K-M-AO1-R T-AY1 M-AW1 T-AH1-V DH-AH0 W-ER1-K F-AO2-R-S


yeah. i wanted to talk about chivalry. if you read.

Y-AE1 AY1 W-AA1-N T-AH0-D T-UW1 T-AO1 K-AH0 B-AW1-T SH-IH1 V-AH0-L R-IY0 IH1 F-Y-UW1 R-EH1-D


the 22nd, then i spoke about the idea of toxic.

DH-AH0 T-W-EH1-N T-IY0 S-EH1 K-AH0-N-D DH-EH1 N-AY1-S P-OW1 K-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 AY0 D-IY1 AH0 AH1-V T-AA1-K S-IH0-K


is because of course, if you read the blog piece, then you'll know.

IH1-Z B-IH0 K-AO1 Z-AH1-V K-AO1-R S-IH1 F-Y-UW1 R-EH1-D DH-AH0 B-L-AA1-G P-IY1-S DH-EH1 N-Y-UW1-L N-OW1


but the reason i named it that just to summarize, is that i feel as though much of what was.

B-AH1-T DH-AH0 R-IY1 Z-AH0 N-AY1 N-EY1-M D-IH1-T DH-AE1-T JH-AH1-S-T T-UW1 S-AH1 M-ER0 AY2 Z-IH1-Z DH-AE1 T-AY1 F-IY1 L-AE1-Z DH-OW1 M-AH1 CH-AH1 V-W-AH1 T-W-AA1-Z


able to channel some of the quote unquote problematic aspects of masculinity.

EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 CH-AE1 N-AH0-L S-AH1 M-AH1-V DH-AH0 K-W-OW1 T-AH1-N K-W-OW1-T P-R-AA2 B-L-AH0 M-AE1 T-IH0 K-AE1-S P-EH2-K-T S-AH1 V-M-AE2-S K-Y-AH0 L-IH1 N-AH0 T-IY0


was attacked by feminists and liberal culture. and since it wasn't.

W-AA1 Z-AH0 T-AE1-K-T B-AY1 F-EH1 M-AH0 N-AH0-S-T S-AH0-N D-L-IH1 B-ER0 AH0-L K-AH1-L CH-ER0 AH0-N-D S-IH1-N S-IH1 T-W-AO1-S-T


tapped what we were left with.

T-AE1-P T-W-AH1 T-W-IY1 W-ER0 L-EH1-F T-W-IH1-DH


and so, before i continue saying problematic aspects of masculine.

AH0-N-D S-OW1 B-IH0 F-AO1 R-AY1 K-AH0-N T-IH1 N-Y-UW0 S-EY1 IH0-NG P-R-AA2 B-L-AH0 M-AE1 T-IH0 K-AE1-S P-EH2-K-T S-AH1 V-M-AE1-S K-Y-AH0 L-AH0-N


identity, what i mean is that there are some aspects of masculinity that can be.

AY0 D-EH1-N T-AH0 T-IY0 W-AH1 T-AY1 M-IY1 N-IH1-Z DH-AE1-T DH-EH1 R-AA1-R S-AH1 M-AE1-S P-EH2-K-T S-AH1 V-M-AE2-S K-Y-AH0 L-IH1 N-AH0 T-IY0 DH-AE1-T K-AE1-N B-IY1


so it's a biological fact that men are stronger than women, especially.

S-OW1 IH1-T S-AH0 B-AY2 AH0 L-AA1 JH-IH0 K-AH0-L F-AE1-K-T DH-AE1 T-M-EH1 N-AA1-R-S T-R-AO1 NG-ER0 DH-AE1 N-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-AH0-S P-EH1 SH-L-IY0


upper body strength. and if men.

AH1 P-ER0 B-AA1 D-IY0-S T-R-EH1-NG-K TH-AH0-N D-IH1 F-M-EH1-N


are left with that strength, without knowing how to.

AA1-R L-EH1-F T-W-IH1-DH DH-AE1-T-S T-R-EH1-NG-K TH-W-IH0 TH-AW1 T-N-OW1 IH0-NG HH-AW1 T-UW1


whether it's religion or tradition, we're able to be funneled through societal notions like chivalry.

W-EH1 DH-ER0 IH1-T S-R-IH0 L-IH1 JH-AH0 N-AO1-R T-R-AH0 D-IH1 SH-AH0 N-W-ER0 EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 B-IY1 F-AH1 N-AH0-L-D TH-R-UW1 S-AH0 S-AY1 IH0 T-AH0-L N-OW1 SH-AH0-N Z-L-AY1-K SH-IH1 V-AH0-L R-IY0


religious or moral ideals. and that's what you use your strength towards. not too long ago, i wrote.

R-IH0 L-IH1 JH-AH0 S-AO1-R M-AO1 R-AH0 L-AY0 D-IY1-L Z-AH0-N-D TH-AE1-T S-W-AH1 T-Y-UW1 Y-UW1 Z-Y-AO1-R-S T-R-EH1-NG-K-TH T-AH0 W-AO1-R-D Z-N-AA1-T T-UW1 L-AO1 NG-AH0 G-OW1 AY1 R-OW1-T


it doesn't really matter to say, is it society, or is it inherently that men are more.

IH1-T D-OW1 S-AH0-N T-R-IH1 L-IY0 M-AE1 T-ER0 T-UW1 S-EY1 IH1 Z-IH1-T S-AH0 S-AY1 AH0 T-IY0 AO1 R-IH1 Z-IH1 T-IH0-N HH-IH1 R-AH0-N T-L-IY0 DH-AE1 T-M-EH1 N-AA1-R M-AO1-R


violent than women? that's not what really matters. in my.

V-AY1 AH0 L-AH0-N-T DH-AE1 N-W-IH1 M-AH0-N TH-AE1-T S-N-AA1 T-W-AH1 T-R-IH1 L-IY0 M-AE1 T-ER0 Z-IH0-N M-AY1


point of view, what matters more to me is to say, here's this extra physical strength that can lead to violence.

P-OY1-N T-AH1-V V-Y-UW1 W-AH1 T-M-AE1 T-ER0 Z-M-AO1-R T-UW1 M-IY1 IH1-Z T-UW1 S-EY1 HH-IH1-R-Z DH-IH1 S-EH1-K-S T-R-AH0 F-IH1 Z-IH0 K-AH0-L-S T-R-EH1-NG-K-TH DH-AE1-T K-AE1 N-L-EH1-D T-UW1 V-AY1 AH0 L-AH0-N-S


how can we take what is natural,

HH-AW1 K-AE1 N-W-IY1 T-EY1 K-W-AH1 T-IH1 Z-N-AE1 CH-ER0 AH0-L


that superior physical strength and nurture it into something that is valuable? and for me,

DH-AE1-T S-UW0 P-IH1 R-IY0 ER0 F-IH1 Z-IH0 K-AH0-L-S T-R-EH1-NG-K TH-AH0-N D-N-ER1 CH-ER0 IH1 T-IH0-N T-UW1 S-AH1-M TH-IH0-NG DH-AE1 T-IH1-Z V-AE1 L-Y-AH0 B-AH0 L-AH0-N-D F-AO1-R M-IY1


something positive than just trying to change it or trying to make it dormant. so for me, the wrong approach is to say,

S-AH1-M TH-IH0-NG P-AA1 Z-AH0 T-IH0-V DH-AE1-N JH-AH1-S-T T-R-AY1 IH0-NG T-UW1 CH-EY1-N JH-IH1 T-AO1-R T-R-AY1 IH0-NG T-UW1 M-EY1 K-IH1-T D-AO1-R M-AH0-N-T S-OW1 F-AO1-R M-IY1 DH-AH0 R-AO1 NG-AH0 P-R-OW1 CH-IH1-Z T-UW1 S-EY1


not competitive. let's just make them play nice. let's give them.

N-AA1-T K-AH0-M P-EH1 T-AH0 T-IH0 V-L-EH1-T-S JH-AH1-S T-M-EY1-K DH-EH1-M P-L-EY1 N-AY1 S-L-EH1-T-S G-IH1-V DH-EH1-M


tea, which very often comes out of competition, whereas

T-IY1 W-IH1-CH V-EH1 R-IY0 AO1 F-AH0-N K-AH1-M Z-AW1 T-AH1-V K-AA2-M P-AH0 T-IH1 SH-AH0 N-W-EH0 R-AE1-Z


a great deal.and the mistake that moral psychologist made in the beginning

AH0 G-R-EY1-T D-IY1 L-AH0-N-D DH-AH0 M-IH0-S T-EY1-K DH-AE1 T-M-AO1 R-AH0-L S-AY0 K-AA1 L-AH0 JH-AH0-S T-M-EY1 D-IH0-N DH-AH0 B-IH0 G-IH1 N-IH0-NG


was that you were able to have.

W-AA1-Z DH-AE1 T-Y-UW1 W-ER0 EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 HH-AE1-V


and a poor man, he goes to a pharmacist and he tries to get this drug for.

AH0-N D-AH0 P-UH1-R M-AE1-N HH-IY1 G-OW1-Z T-UW1 AH0 F-AA1-R M-AH0 S-IH0-S T-AH0-N-D HH-IY1 T-R-AY1-Z T-UW1 G-EH1-T DH-IH1-S D-R-AH1-G F-AO1-R


his sick wife. so that obviously.

HH-IH1-Z S-IH1 K-W-AY1-F S-OW1 DH-AE1 T-AA1-B V-IY0 AH0 S-L-IY0


drug he has, and whatever sees the amount of desperation and charges him this.

D-R-AH1-G HH-IY1 HH-AE1 Z-AH0-N D-W-AH2 T-EH1 V-ER0 S-IY1-Z DH-AH0 AH0 M-AW1-N T-AH1-V D-EH2-S P-ER0 EY1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N-D CH-AA1-R JH-AH0-Z HH-IH1-M DH-IH1-S


cared a lot about the relationship. and a lot of the time men and boys cared a lot about the principles. so the principle of.

K-EH1-R D-AH0 L-AA1 T-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 R-IY0 L-EY1 SH-AH0-N SH-IH2 P-AH0-N D-AH0 L-AA1 T-AH1-V DH-AH0 T-AY1-M M-EH1 N-AH0-N-D B-OY1-Z K-EH1-R D-AH0 L-AA1 T-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 P-R-IH1-N S-AH0 P-AH0-L-Z S-OW1 DH-AH0 P-R-IH1-N S-AH0 P-AH0 L-AH1-V


stealing is wrong, or the principle of greed is wrong.

S-T-IY1 L-IH0 NG-IH1 Z-R-AO1 NG-AO1-R DH-AH0 P-R-IH1-N S-AH0 P-AH0 L-AH1-V G-R-IY1 D-IH1 Z-R-AO1-NG


whereas women would very often look at it as,

W-EH0 R-AE1 Z-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-W-UH1-D V-EH1 R-IY0 AO1 F-AH0 N-L-UH1 K-AE1 T-IH1 T-AE1-Z


well, he shouldn't steal from the pharmacist because who knows,

W-EH1-L HH-IY1 SH-OW1-L T-AH0-N-T-S T-IY1-L F-R-AH1-M DH-AH0 F-AA1-R M-AH0 S-IH0-S-T B-IH0 K-AO1-Z HH-UW1 N-OW1-Z


maybe the pharmacist also has a family and that wouldn't be right to take money away from his family, or he could end up in jail. and then he wouldn't be able to take care.

M-EY1 B-IY0 DH-AH0 F-AA1-R M-AH0 S-IH0-S T-AO1-L S-OW0 HH-AE1 Z-AH0 F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 AH0-N-D DH-AE1 T-W-UH1 D-L-AH0-N-T B-IY1 R-AY1-T T-UW1 T-EY1 K-M-AH1 N-IY0 AH0 W-EY1 F-R-AH1-M HH-IH1-Z F-AE1 M-AH0 L-IY0 AO1-R HH-IY1 K-UH1 D-EH1-N D-AH1 P-IH0-N JH-EY1 L-AH0-N-D DH-EH1-N HH-IY1 W-UH1 D-L-AH0-N-T B-IY1 EY1 B-AH0-L T-UW1 T-EY1-K K-EH1-R


and men very often tended to look at the principle of the matter and the mistake, as i mentioned on the outset that the moral psychologists made was to say, oh,

AH0-N D-M-EH1-N V-EH1 R-IY0 AO1 F-AH0-N T-EH1-N D-AH0-D T-UW1 L-UH1 K-AE1-T DH-AH0 P-R-IH1-N S-AH0 P-AH0 L-AH1-V DH-AH0 M-AE1 T-ER0 AH0-N-D DH-AH0 M-IH0-S T-EY1 K-AE1 Z-AY1 M-EH1-N SH-AH0-N D-AA1-N DH-AH0 AW1-T S-EH2-T DH-AE1-T DH-AH0 M-AO1 R-AH0-L S-AY0 K-AA1 L-AH0 JH-AH0-S-T S-M-EY1 D-W-AA1-Z T-UW1 S-EY1 OW1


look at women, we don't get past this point of relationship to come to more guided principles. and so we are not as moral as men. and that was a mista-

L-UH1 K-AE1 T-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-W-IY1 D-AA1-N-T G-EH1-T P-AE1-S-T DH-IH1-S P-OY1-N T-AH1 V-R-IY0 L-EY1 SH-AH0-N SH-IH2-P T-UW1 K-AH1-M T-UW1 M-AO1-R G-AY1 D-AH0-D P-R-IH1-N S-AH0 P-AH0-L Z-AH0-N-D S-OW1 W-IY1 AA1-R N-AA1 T-AE1 Z-M-AO1 R-AH0 L-AE1 Z-M-EH1 N-AH0-N-D DH-AE1 T-W-AA1 Z-AH0 M-IH1-S T-AH0


-ake. that was the wrong judgment to make. and so

EY1-K DH-AE1 T-W-AA1-Z DH-AH0 R-AO1-NG JH-AH1 JH-M-AH0-N-T T-UW1 M-EY1 K-AH0-N-D S-OW1


and she explored in her book in a different voice.

AH0-N-D SH-IY1 IH0-K-S P-L-AO1-R D-IH0-N HH-ER0 B-UH1 K-IH0 N-AH0 D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N-T V-OY1-S


she explored the ways in which men and women simply view problems differently. if you.

SH-IY1 IH0-K-S P-L-AO1-R-D DH-AH0 W-EY1 Z-IH0 N-W-IH1 CH-M-EH1 N-AH0-N D-W-IH1 M-AH0-N S-IH1-M P-L-IY0 V-Y-UW1 P-R-AA1 B-L-AH0-M-Z D-IH1 F-R-AH0-N T-L-IY0 IH1 F-Y-UW1


have different emphasis on how they make decisions,

HH-AE1-V D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N T-EH1-M F-AH0 S-AH0 S-AA1-N HH-AW1 DH-EY1 M-EY1-K D-IH0 S-IH1 ZH-AH0-N-Z


i got really caught up in that back to my psychology days with the moral psychology example.

AY1 G-AA1 T-R-IH1 L-IY0 K-AA1 T-AH1 P-IH0-N DH-AE1-T B-AE1-K T-UW1 M-AY1 S-AY0 K-AA1 L-AH0 JH-IY0 D-EY1 Z-W-IH1-DH DH-AH0 M-AO1 R-AH0-L S-AY0 K-AA1 L-AH0 JH-IY0 IH0-G Z-AE1-M P-AH0-L


so anyway, the point basically that i was just trying to make the larger point is that men and women have proven to be different

S-OW1 EH1 N-IY0 W-EY2 DH-AH0 P-OY1-N-T B-EY1 S-IH0 K-L-IY0 DH-AE1 T-AY1 W-AA1-Z JH-AH1-S-T T-R-AY1 IH0-NG T-UW1 M-EY1-K DH-AH0 L-AA1-R JH-ER0 P-OY1-N T-IH1-Z DH-AE1 T-M-EH1 N-AH0-N D-W-IH1 M-AH0-N HH-AE1-V P-R-UW1 V-AH0-N T-UW1 B-IY1 D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N-T


different aspects of our two genders. so for.

D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N T-AE1-S P-EH2-K-T S-AH1 V-AW1 ER0 T-UW1 JH-EH1-N D-ER0-Z S-OW1 F-AO1-R


example, it happens on the other side to a woman's ability to, or lack of ability to be more aggressive when it comes to,

IH0-G Z-AE1-M P-AH0 L-IH1-T HH-AE1 P-AH0-N Z-AA1-N DH-AH0 AH1 DH-ER0 S-AY1-D T-UW1 AH0 W-UH1 M-AH0-N Z-AH0 B-IH1 L-AH0 T-IY0 T-UW1 AO1-R L-AE1 K-AH1 V-AH0 B-IH1 L-AH0 T-IY0 T-UW1 B-IY1 M-AO1 R-AH0 G-R-EH1 S-IH0 V-W-EH1 N-IH1-T K-AH1-M-Z T-UW1


and there's been studies that show that women use, 'sorry' a lot more, women use 'but' a lot more, women.

AH0-N-D DH-EH1-R-Z B-IH1-N-S T-AH1 D-IY0-Z DH-AE1-T SH-OW1 DH-AE1 T-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-Y-UW1-Z S-AA1 R-IY0 AH0 L-AA1 T-M-AO1 R-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-Y-UW1-Z B-AH1 T-AH0 L-AA1 T-M-AO1 R-W-IH1 M-AH0-N


name for it, but basically when you're talking, you're making a point, but then you kind of undermine yourself, like saying.

N-EY1-M F-AO1 R-IH1-T B-AH1-T B-EY1 S-IH0 K-L-IY0 W-EH1 N-Y-UH1-R T-AO1 K-IH0 NG-Y-UH1-R M-EY1 K-IH0 NG-AH0 P-OY1-N-T B-AH1-T DH-EH1 N-Y-UW1 K-AY1-N D-AH1 V-AH1-N D-ER0 M-AY2 N-Y-ER0 S-EH1-L F-L-AY1-K S-EY1 IH0-NG


and so instead of people in power,

AH0-N-D S-OW1 IH0-N-S T-EH1 D-AH1-V P-IY1 P-AH0 L-IH0-N P-AW1 ER0


or even as a community and society.

AO1 R-IY1 V-IH0 N-AE1 Z-AH0 K-AH0 M-Y-UW1 N-AH0 T-IY0 AH0-N-D S-AH0 S-AY1 AH0 T-IY0


what's the word i want to say? oh, responsive. just as responsive to it as we would be for a man. so if we.

W-AH0-T-S DH-AH0 W-ER1 D-AY1 W-AA1-N-T T-UW1 S-EY1 OW1 R-IH0-S P-AA1-N S-IH0-V JH-AH1-S T-AE1 Z-R-IH0-S P-AA1-N S-IH0-V T-UW1 IH1 T-AE1 Z-W-IY1 W-UH1-D B-IY1 F-AO1 R-AH0 M-AE1-N S-OW1 IH1 F-W-IY1


pointing to that, wanting to always keep relationships intact,

P-OY1-N T-IH0-NG T-UW1 DH-AE1 T-W-AA1-N T-IH0-NG T-UW1 AO1 L-W-EY2-Z K-IY1 P-R-IY0 L-EY1 SH-AH0-N SH-IH2-P S-IH0-N T-AE1-K-T


even if they disagree with you, or even because they're asking for x, y, and z doesn't mean that they want to hurt you.

IY1 V-IH0 N-IH1-F DH-EY1 D-IH0 S-AH0 G-R-IY1 W-IH1 DH-Y-UW1 AO1 R-IY1 V-IH0-N B-IH0 K-AO1-Z TH-EH1 R-AE1-S K-IH0-NG F-AO1 R-EH1-K S-W-AY1 AH0-N-D Z-IY1 D-OW1 S-AH0-N T-M-IY1-N DH-AE1-T DH-EY1 W-AA1-N-T T-UW1 HH-ER1 T-Y-UW1


in any way. so why can't we hear that voice instead of telling women go out there and be more aggressive,

IH0 N-EH1 N-IY0 W-EY1 S-OW1 W-AY1 K-AE1-N T-W-IY1 HH-IY1-R DH-AE1-T V-OY1 S-IH0-N-S T-EH1 D-AH1-V T-EH1 L-IH0 NG-W-IH1 M-AH0-N G-OW1 AW1-T DH-EH1 R-AH0-N-D B-IY1 M-AO1 R-AH0 G-R-EH1 S-IH0-V


tell the people empower, tell ourselves this.

T-EH1-L DH-AH0 P-IY1 P-AH0 L-IH0-M P-AW1 ER0 T-EH1 L-AW0 ER0 S-EH1-L-V-Z DH-IH1-S


as women, instead of hearing them as weak versions of men? so this happens on both sides of constantly.

AE1 Z-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-IH0-N-S T-EH1 D-AH1-V HH-IY1 R-IH0-NG DH-EH1 M-AE1 Z-W-IY1-K V-ER1 ZH-AH0-N Z-AH1 V-M-EH1-N S-OW1 DH-IH1-S HH-AE1 P-AH0-N Z-AA1-N B-OW1-TH S-AY1-D Z-AH1-V K-AA1-N-S T-AH0-N T-L-IY0


problematizing distinct features of each gender and

P-R-AA1 B-L-AH0 M-EY2 T-IH0-NG D-IH0-S T-IH1-NG-K-T F-IY1 CH-ER0 Z-AH1 V-IY1-CH JH-EH1-N D-ER0 AH0-N-D


what we like most about each gender and trying to create this new sort of genderless society, where everyone is upheld by the same standards.

W-AH1 T-W-IY1 L-AY1 K-M-OW1-S T-AH0 B-AW1 T-IY1-CH JH-EH1-N D-ER0 AH0-N-D T-R-AY1 IH0-NG T-UW1 K-R-IY0 EY1-T DH-IH1 S-N-UW1 S-AO1-R T-AH1-V JH-EH1-N D-ER0 L-AH0-S S-AH0 S-AY1 AH0 T-IY0 W-EH1 R-EH1 V-R-IY0 W-AH2 N-IH1 Z-AH0-P HH-EH1-L-D B-AY1 DH-AH0 S-EY1-M-S T-AE1-N D-ER0-D-Z


and i think i already mentioned that that is actually one of the goals of radical feminism. and radical feminism, going by the textbook definition,

AH0-N D-AY1 TH-IH1-NG K-AY1 AO0-L R-EH1 D-IY0 M-EH1-N SH-AH0-N-D DH-AE1-T DH-AE1 T-IH1 Z-AE1-K CH-AH0 W-AH0 L-IY0 W-AH1 N-AH1-V DH-AH0 G-OW1-L Z-AH1 V-R-AE1 D-AH0 K-AH0-L F-EH1 M-IH0 N-IH2 Z-AH0 M-AH0-N D-R-AE1 D-AH0 K-AH0-L F-EH1 M-IH0 N-IH2 Z-AH0-M G-OW1 IH0-NG B-AY1 DH-AH0 T-EH1-K-S-T B-UH2-K D-EH2 F-AH0 N-IH1 SH-AH0-N


or as to try and promote using pronouns like xer instead of her or him.

AO1 R-AE1-Z T-UW1 T-R-AY1 AH0-N-D P-R-AH0 M-OW1 T-Y-UW1 Z-IH0-NG P-R-OW1 N-AW0-N Z-L-AY1-K Z-EH1 R-IH0-N-S T-EH1 D-AH1-V HH-ER0 AO1-R HH-IH1-M


without genders, some of the expectations that we have of different genders.

W-IH0 TH-AW1-T JH-EH1-N D-ER0-Z S-AH1 M-AH1-V DH-AH0 EH2-K-S P-EH0-K T-EY1 SH-AH0-N-Z DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 HH-AE1 V-AH1-V D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N-T JH-EH1-N D-ER0-Z


sounds, it's completely true. blue is for boys and pink is for girls it's nonsense. and in fact,

S-AW1-N-D Z-IH1-T-S K-AH0-M P-L-IY1 T-L-IY0 T-R-UW1 B-L-UW1 IH1-Z F-AO1-R B-OY1 Z-AH0-N-D P-IH1-NG K-IH1-Z F-AO1-R G-ER1-L Z-IH1-T S-N-AA1-N S-EH0-N S-AH0-N D-IH0-N F-AE1-K-T


that was, i think it was either vox or like buzzfeed did a video about this, that.

DH-AE1 T-W-AA1 Z-AY1 TH-IH1-NG K-IH1 T-W-AA1 Z-IY1 DH-ER0 V-AA1-K S-AO1-R L-AY1-K B-AH1-Z F-IY2-D D-IH1 D-AH0 V-IH1 D-IY0 OW0 AH0 B-AW1-T DH-IH1-S DH-AE1-T


competition, and what is aggression and someone going too far? but as women, we can recognize it,

K-AA2-M P-AH0 T-IH1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N D-W-AH1 T-IH1 Z-AH0 G-R-EH1 SH-AH0 N-AH0-N-D S-AH1 M-W-AH2-N G-OW1 IH0-NG T-UW1 F-AA1-R B-AH1 T-AE1 Z-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-W-IY1 K-AE1 N-R-EH1 K-AH0 G-N-AY2 Z-IH1-T


within a particular gender. and that we can't as easily.

W-IH0 DH-IH1 N-AH0 P-ER0 T-IH1 K-Y-AH0 L-ER0 JH-EH1-N D-ER0 AH0-N-D DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 K-AE1-N T-AE1 Z-IY1 Z-AH0 L-IY0


literally, i don't think that there are just so many dramatic differences between men and women that we can never understand each other.

L-IH1 T-ER0 AH0 L-IY0 AY1 D-AA1-N-T TH-IH1-NG-K DH-AE1-T DH-EH1 R-AA1-R JH-AH1-S-T S-OW1 M-EH1 N-IY0 D-R-AH0 M-AE1 T-IH0-K D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N S-IH0-Z B-IH0 T-W-IY1-N M-EH1 N-AH0-N D-W-IH1 M-AH0-N DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 K-AE1-N N-EH1 V-ER0 AH2-N D-ER0-S T-AE1-N D-IY1 CH-AH1 DH-ER0


but i do think that there are some aspects that we understand about each other,

B-AH1 T-AY1 D-UW1 TH-IH1-NG-K DH-AE1-T DH-EH1 R-AA1-R S-AH1 M-AE1-S P-EH2-K-T-S DH-AE1 T-W-IY1 AH2-N D-ER0-S T-AE1-N D-AH0 B-AW1 T-IY1 CH-AH1 DH-ER0


and it's not even just to say it was attacked in the past. it's still being attacked. there was still articles.

AH0-N D-IH1-T S-N-AA1 T-IY1 V-IH0-N JH-AH1-S-T T-UW1 S-EY1 IH1 T-W-AA1 Z-AH0 T-AE1-K T-IH0-N DH-AH0 P-AE1-S T-IH1-T-S-S T-IH1-L B-IY1 IH0 NG-AH0 T-AE1-K-T DH-EH1 R-W-AA1-Z-S T-IH1 L-AA1-R T-AH0 K-AH0-L-Z


missing a word here, but there are articles as recently as i think 2012, 13, that i was still seeing as

M-IH1 S-IH0 NG-AH0 W-ER1-D HH-IY1-R B-AH1-T DH-EH1 R-AA1 R-AA1-R T-AH0 K-AH0-L Z-AE1 Z-R-IY1 S-AH0-N T-L-IY0 AE1 Z-AY1 TH-IH1-NG-K T-W-EH1-N T-IY0 T-W-EH1-L-V TH-ER1 T-IY1-N DH-AE1 T-AY1 W-AA1-Z-S T-IH1-L S-IY1 IH0 NG-AE1-Z


just completely bashing chivalry. and even one article that i came across that was promoting chivalry. and the comment section, some people are bashing.

JH-AH1-S-T K-AH0-M P-L-IY1 T-L-IY0 B-AE1 SH-IH0-NG SH-IH1 V-AH0-L R-IY0 AH0-N D-IY1 V-IH0 N-W-AH1 N-AA1-R T-AH0 K-AH0-L DH-AE1 T-AY1 K-EY1 M-AH0 K-R-AO1-S DH-AE1 T-W-AA1-Z P-R-AH0 M-OW1 T-IH0-NG SH-IH1 V-AH0-L R-IY0 AH0-N-D DH-AH0 K-AA1 M-EH0-N-T S-EH1-K SH-AH0-N S-AH1-M P-IY1 P-AH0 L-AA1-R B-AE1 SH-IH0-NG


points to gender differences.

P-OY1-N-T-S T-UW1 JH-EH1-N D-ER0 D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N S-IH0-Z


some of the things about chivalry

S-AH1 M-AH1-V DH-AH0 TH-IH1-NG Z-AH0 B-AW1-T SH-IH1 V-AH0-L R-IY0


point to the fact, or rather stand as a representation that men are stronger than women and women are weaker than men.

P-OY1-N-T T-UW1 DH-AH0 F-AE1-K T-AO1-R R-AE1 DH-ER0-S T-AE1-N D-AE1 Z-AH0 R-EH2 P-R-AH0 Z-EH0-N T-EY1 SH-AH0-N DH-AE1 T-M-EH1 N-AA1-R-S T-R-AO1 NG-ER0 DH-AE1 N-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-AH0-N D-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-AA1 R-W-IY1 K-ER0 DH-AE1-N M-EH1-N


but the interesting thing to me and why i went through all of this about the gender differences is that.

B-AH1-T DH-AH0 IH1-N T-R-AH0-S T-IH0-NG TH-IH1-NG T-UW1 M-IY1 AH0-N D-W-AY1 AY1 W-EH1-N-T TH-R-UW1 AO1 L-AH1-V DH-IH1 S-AH0 B-AW1-T DH-AH0 JH-EH1-N D-ER0 D-IH1 F-ER0 AH0-N S-IH0 Z-IH1-Z DH-AE1-T


men and women, especially when you talk about.

M-EH1 N-AH0-N D-W-IH1 M-AH0 N-AH0-S P-EH1 SH-L-IY0 W-EH1 N-Y-UW1 T-AO1 K-AH0 B-AW1-T


it's about competition, whatever we're talking about, men are going to win.

IH1-T S-AH0 B-AW1-T K-AA2-M P-AH0 T-IH1 SH-AH0 N-W-AH2 T-EH1 V-ER0 W-ER0 T-AO1 K-IH0 NG-AH0 B-AW1 T-M-EH1 N-AA1-R G-OW1 IH0-NG T-UW1 W-IH1-N


add, in that a lot of men have taken that, have listened to that, and have followed suit. so-

AE1 D-IH0-N DH-AE1 T-AH0 L-AA1 T-AH1 V-M-EH1-N HH-AE1-V T-EY1 K-AH0-N DH-AE1-T HH-AE1 V-L-IH1 S-AH0-N-D T-UW1 DH-AE1 T-AH0-N-D HH-AE1-V F-AA1 L-OW0-D S-UW1-T S-OW1


... when i go on a train and i see mostly men sitting-

W-EH1 N-AY1 G-OW1 AA1 N-AH0 T-R-EY1 N-AH0-N D-AY1 S-IY1 M-OW1-S T-L-IY0 M-EH1-N S-IH1 T-IH0-NG


... saddens me because chivalry is to acknowledge, if we want to put it in liberal terms-

S-AE1 D-AH0-N Z-M-IY1 B-IH0 K-AO1-Z SH-IH1 V-AH0-L R-IY0 IH1-Z T-UW1 AE0 K-N-AA1 L-IH0 JH-IH1 F-W-IY1 W-AA1-N-T T-UW1 P-UH1 T-IH1 T-IH0 N-L-IH1 B-ER0 AH0-L T-ER1-M-Z


... to acknowledge their privilege. cis people-

T-UW1 AE0 K-N-AA1 L-IH0-JH DH-EH1-R P-R-IH1 V-L-AH0-JH S-IY1-S P-IY1 P-AH0-L


... basically cis people, and their-

B-EY1 S-IH0 K-L-IY0 S-IY1-S P-IY1 P-AH0 L-AH0-N-D DH-EH1-R


... and that acknowledging, "i am more powerful than you." and with that power-

AH0-N-D DH-AE1 T-AE0 K-N-AA1 L-IH0 JH-IH0 NG-AY1 AE1-M M-AO1-R P-AW1 ER0 F-AH0-L DH-AE1 N-Y-UW1 AH0-N D-W-IH1-DH DH-AE1-T P-AW1 ER0


... the girl or whether he has his seat already, and he chooses to give it up for her, then he is recognizing that-

DH-AH0 G-ER1 L-AO1 R-W-EH1 DH-ER0 HH-IY1 HH-AE1-Z HH-IH1-Z S-IY1 T-AO0-L R-EH1 D-IY0 AH0-N-D HH-IY1 CH-UW1 Z-AH0-Z T-UW1 G-IH1 V-IH1 T-AH1-P F-AO1-R HH-ER0 DH-EH1-N HH-IY1 IH1 Z-R-EH1 K-AH0 G-N-AY2 Z-IH0-NG DH-AE1-T


... in our times, it's like if a white person sees a black person being pulled over by the cops and they stop and stay in that area-

IH0 N-AW1 ER0 T-AY1-M Z-IH1-T S-L-AY1 K-IH1 F-AH0 W-AY1-T P-ER1 S-AH0-N S-IY1 Z-AH0 B-L-AE1-K P-ER1 S-AH0-N B-IY1 IH0-NG P-UH1-L D-OW1 V-ER0 B-AY1 DH-AH0 K-AA1-P S-AH0-N-D DH-EY1-S T-AA1 P-AH0-N-D-S T-EY1 IH0-N DH-AE1 T-EH1 R-IY0 AH0


... if they recognize that, and they use that privilege in the service of black people-

IH1-F DH-EY1 R-EH1 K-AH0 G-N-AY2-Z DH-AE1 T-AH0-N-D DH-EY1 Y-UW1-Z DH-AE1-T P-R-IH1 V-L-AH0 JH-IH0-N DH-AH0 S-ER1 V-AH0 S-AH1-V B-L-AE1-K P-IY1 P-AH0-L


... that when men recognize their privilege and they use it in the service of women, they were attacked.

DH-AE1 T-W-EH1-N M-EH1 N-R-EH1 K-AH0 G-N-AY2-Z DH-EH1-R P-R-IH1 V-L-AH0 JH-AH0-N-D DH-EY1 Y-UW1 Z-IH1 T-IH0-N DH-AH0 S-ER1 V-AH0 S-AH1 V-W-IH1 M-AH0-N DH-EY1 W-ER0 AH0 T-AE1-K-T


some of these feminists, they have the biggest voices-

S-AH1 M-AH1-V DH-IY1-Z F-EH1 M-AH0 N-AH0-S-T-S DH-EY1 HH-AE1-V DH-AH0 B-IH1 G-AH0-S-T V-OY1 S-AH0-Z


... as well. i think that men in general-

AE1 Z-W-EH1 L-AY1 TH-IH1-NG-K DH-AE1 T-M-EH1 N-IH0-N JH-EH1 N-ER0 AH0-L