There is A LOT going on, and many of us feel overwhelmed We are entering a common stressful period—can you say “holiday season”?—compounded by the additional stress of politics and environmental stand-offs. What do you do? You have the ability to be proactive, to contribute, and to be part of a solution. Movement matters in regards to your stress level, and it matters to activism. Katy and Dani offer up some ways to help you utilize movement when social currents are moving in a distressing direction.
Importance of Movement in Uncertain Times
Description: There is A LOT going on, and many of us feel overwhelmed We are entering a common stressful period—can you say “holiday season”?—compounded by the additional stress of politics and environmental stand-offs. What do you do?
You have the ability to be proactive, to contribute, and to be part of a solution.
Movement matters in regards to your stress level, and it matters to activism. Katy and Dani offer up some ways to help you utilize movement when social currents are moving in a distressing direction.
DANI: Welcome to the Katy Says podcast, where Dani Hemmat and Katy Bowman talk about movement; the tiny details, the larger issues and why Movement Matters.
DANI: Oh. No way!
KATY: Someone just sent me a screenshot of the Amazon Best Seller Movement Matters before
DANI: I was gonna say.
KATY: The pub date is not even technically done yet.
KATY: So I feel like at what point do we say...
DANI: I don't know.
KATY: Is it best-seller status or it's just because we have to pick one title.
DANI: Do we have to?
KATY: No, how about, I'm Katy Bowman. And that's really all that matters. Like it's
DANI: laughs. I like that.
KATY: everything else that you do and all that... I don't know, I feel like I'm more interested in my behavior than my title. So, I'd like to strip my titles for this episode. So, Hi, I'm Katy.
DANI: Oh. Do I get my title?
KATY: You can do whatever you want, girlfriend.
DANI: Ok. All right. Cuz, I haven't written any best-sellers yet. And I'm Dani Hemmat; a chronically curious movement teacher. And I'm a chronically curious movement teacher who happened to be in hoobidy doobidy while you were having what looked like a very unique launch party for this best seller, Movement Matters.
DANI: And I couldn't be there. You gots to tell me about it.
KATY: It was pretty great. I had Martin from Soft Star Shoes which is a company that I really love and I invited him, him personally, because I just, I really like him. He's such a cool guy. And he wrote such a great blog post about the event. Because he works in minimal footwear. So he's like, "my life is kind of like this." Doesn't matter if you're going to a personal party or a work party, it's like, "Hi, I'm Martin, nice to meet you. What do you do? Oh, I work for Soft Star. Great. What's that? Oh, it's a handmade shoe company. We make minimal shoes. What are minimal shoes?" And then he explains it and then immediately it's like, "Oh well I can't wear minimal shoes, I have a stiff, I have to have support." And all this stuff and then he goes into this big explanation about, you know, support coming from within the muscles. That's his script. Right? We all have scripts
KATY: That we follow. So imagine going to a party, my party, for Movement Matters, where every single person is wearing minimal shoes. Or no shoes at all. What do you do? He was like, "It's like my whole schtick was gone. It was like Hi, I'm Martin. I work for Soft Stars. Oh, Soft Stars! I love Soft Stars." He was like, "It was like being a celebrity."
DANI: That's cool.
KATY: So. Yeah. It was just kind of that. It was, just as I wanted, the embodiment of the book. Where...
DANI: How so?
KATY: It was the embodiment of Movement Matters in that 1) it was a party outside. In a natural setting where the ocean was off to a distance. We were in the rolling California hills. There was eucalyptus trees. For some magical reason, it was warm and sunny all day, no clouds. So the stars and the moon and the hawks...
DANI: Well I saw a picture. And it looks like you invited some cows too?
KATY: And so the second part was that it was on Markegard Farms, which we're publishing a book by Doniga Markegard ... so we'll be talking about her a lot in the next year to come. She's a wild animal tracker. And I first learned about her listening to Diana Rodgers podcast on Sustainable Dish. And she had interviewed her because she, she's from Washington, and she was kind of unschooled slash homeschooled slash wilderness schooled. So it was really neat to meet someone my own age who had gone kind of the path that my kids are on now. Because it's like, where are you gonna end up.
KATY: And she ended up, you know, training for years with different Native American and first nations
KATY: Tribes and she became, like she's just the embodiment of someone, you know, connected to the land. And she was a carnivore tracker. Like, she's got all these crazy stories. If you want to... we can link to that episode in the show notes because
KATY: It's so good. She is talking about tracking wolves and tracking cougar and reading the signs of ... I mean she's just out there by herself running for 20 miles. "Oh, it's night. I'm just gonna make a debris shelter and sleep out here until I find the pack of wolves tomorrow." You know, just
KATY: And she was tracking them for the scientists who research them who don't know how to find them. So she goes out, finds them and so then the scientists can study, you know, whatever they want to study. So anyway, it's her, so she, now, at my age, they run a CSA. CSA of different animals. But mostly beef and they're doing holistic, they're using a lot of permaculture. They're doing holistic land management that's kind of similar to what the Savory institute is doing. They're making land drought resistant through free range groaming. Did I say groaming.
DANI: You said groaming.
KATY: Groaming is grazing roaming.
DANI: I'm looking that word up now. I'm like, a word I don't know. What? Oh, it's a Katy word.
KATY: Groaming, yeah, it's grazing and roaming together. You're groaming. Sings: Give me a home where the buffalo groam. You never heard that song?
DANI: Oh yeah.
KATY: So yeah. It was that. So I had it set up where the hors d'oeuvres ingredients were there but you had to assemble your own. You had to move more for your food. So it was this beautiful setting, you know, farm to table, the food was foraged. Um, locally foraged or local from, you know, that area. So the party itself really embodied all of those Movement Matters concepts. And then it was community. It was people who were, who had maybe hadn't connected before. But there were people making best friends there.
DANI: That's awesome.
KATY: People who were like, "Oh I didn't know that. I just met this person and we're gonna get together and make these changes in our community." So it was, it was wonderful. It was like, it's what I imagine big weddings must feel like at the end. Like exhausted. Like I got married, you know, on the, standing on a beach with no one or anything. So I, it's like what I imagine that feeling after this huge party that you've planned and you've been giving speeches all night and just connecting with some amazing people. I met Ben. Ben was there.
DANI: Oh. That. I mean. That's just like. It's killing me. I mean hoobidy doobidy is great. But It's killing me because Ben is...
DANI: means so much.
KATY: He's even more
KATY: It's hard to ... my husband kind of nailed it on the head. He's like, you know, what you don't get from. You know, there's limited contact, that you have with Ben. It's mostly through a picture...one facebook post and he came on.
KATY: He is, he's powerful. Like it's just, it's oozing from him in that, I mean, it's definitely charisma, but it's directed politicized charisma. Like it's, I don't know, amazing. Just a shiny, really great human. And so it was really nice to hang out with him and then Otto was there. Everyone's like, "Otto, our BFF Otto." And so we took a picture to text Dani. We're like, "Sorry you're not here tonight."
DANI: Hey, I never got that text. Otto, send me that text.
KATY: Exactly. So yeah, it was great. Great overall. Wish you could be there but next time. Next time we will have...
DANI: Next time. Write another book, please. I can't believe I said that.
KATY: It's on you now.
DANI: Oh no. All right, well, everything's been going on. It's been crazy. And you and I just were talking and we thought it would be cool to do a podcast on stress.
DANI: For no reason. You know.
KATY: No reason at all.
DANI: Just 'cuz. Just cuz.
KATY: Well, I've been getting a lot of tweets and emails and messages that, like, one of the things that's bringing me great comfort right now is reading Movement Matters
DANI: That's so cool.
KATY: And I thought, yeah... and I totally get it. It's what has made me feel really good and really calm over the last week or so, is just focusing on ... on ... on ... how movement, like the importance of movement in uncertain times.
DANI: Right. Well and we're moving into a really stressful normal time; the holidays where people get kind of worked up and stressed out and it's compounded by the additional stress of politics
KATY: and friendships. So it's like
KATY: It's just about... everyone. When you're whole community is like flipped up and around, even if it's not in your direct home. Even if you, yourself, are, you know, cool with how everything is. When everyone else around you is in upheaval, it can be stressful.
DANI: Um-hmm. It can be felt for sure.
KATY: Of course. I don't think anyone feels warm and shiny right now.
DANI: Right. Now. and...
KATY: And we love, you know, the people in our community and our family and we want ... and ourselves, like so, movement and that. Movement and unrest. How do we apply all the things that we already know to this particular time. So we're talking about all of it.
KATY: Any time. This applies to any time. But specifically...
DANI: Well, you're pretty optimistic, you know, you're very positive and you're always going forward. That's kind of just, you're marching forth, that's how you work and I'm like relentlessly optimistic, but it's, yeah, I felt really low the last week or so, but what always helps me feel better, no matter what's going on in my life, is just being proactive.
DANI: Like nothing pulls you out of any funk better than, like, let's do something. We gotta do something.
KATY: And I actually don't think of myself as, like, I'm not an optimistic person by nature. I'm a move forward person by nature. You really nailed me in that sentence. Just meaning because I'm just constantly seeking activity and where I can be active it doesn't really give me much time to ruminate or feel badly about the situation.
KATY: Which doesn't mean that I'm not trying to solve issues. It just means that I'm just taking actions. Like that's just my, that's my nature, if you will.
KATY: So we're gonna talk about that. Let's talk about how to do it.
DANI: Part of what I like about you. We are in an uncertain time. Let's just talk about, there's different kinds of movement. Let's talk about ways movement can reduce stress.
KATY: Well, ok, well there's the obvious ones. What I call, like, the health magazine ones. You know, like park farther from the doorways to where you're going. Like that's the obvious one.
KATY: So clearly when you are stressed, go take a walk. Yes.
KATY: Like we can all agree, like, instead of like if you're just feeling tense and scared, go find a safe place to take a walk. And that's, I think maybe that's maybe something we haven't said before. If you're feeling nervous about where you are, go find a safe space and walk there.
KATY: You know, add that extra bit of - give yourself that extra bit of care. So definitely do that. Um, it's kind of the stuff that we've already said. Like screen free... social media...
DANI: But I think breaking it down. Breaking it down.
KATY: Totally. No, we're not, we're not going like, "Hey we've already said this before..." We are just gonna take things that we said before and show you how they adapt to this situation.
DANI: If you want less stress listen to every podcast ever that we've ever done. There are your answers.
KATY: Exactly. Starting now.
DANI: Like there's, like you said a safe space. So maybe you're with relatives and, you know, weird stuff happens at like Thanksgiving, or discussions
DANI: It's totally cool. Either, you can all take a walk because sometimes that will divert things
DANI: you know, if you're looking at trees or whatever. Or you can just say, "Oh man, you know, I gotta go for a walk." And it's better than freaking out or getting mad or anything. It's just reset. It's always the reset button is walking.
KATY: Yeah. And movement is common ground. I wrote a whole post, I wrote a post called "21 ways to move more for your holiday meal." For your holiday's whole situation. Go look at that because maybe no holiday before have you wanted to occupy people with movement to avoid like discussions. It's like, "you know what? Let's play..." You know, we have all kinds of different things like, have a standing soup course. Right? No one's standing around, sitting in anyone's face, if you feel like, "Oh my gosh, having all these people at one table is stressing me out." Get rid of the table. You know what I mean?
KATY: Like now more than ever is a chance for you to stack it. Stack it means you can do the same thing, which is have a holiday, host a holiday at your home, but you can do it differently.
KATY: You do not have to feel like it all has to be, you know, all 12 or 20 or 5 or whatever all people sitting and staring at each other unhappily.
KATY: Change it up. Go, "we're gonna do... I'm getting us a mug of soup and we're gonna do our first starter just kind of out and about or outside." Just change something. Change the environment. We talked about going for a walk. What about just going outside. Just step outside...
KATY: Step outside to cool off, warm up, whatever you want to do. Feel ok stepping outside or stepping away from your computer. Right? So I think that now is a really great time to, it's a little tricky, because you want to stay informed now.
KATY: I think that's super important. So maybe never better a time to delineate between when you are engaging actively in staying informed through credible sources, whatever that means to you versus when you are engaging online for emotional support to feel heard versus when you don't know what else to do and you're going online.
KATY: So that third category, you could probably not go online for that third category. Because hopefully we'll have give you enough other things to do. When you're turning to the internet simply because you don't know what else to do and you might not be nourished from what you find there. As nourished as you could be from these other things.
KATY: So that's why it's a little different. It's not screen free week. You need to pay attention to your motivations. So, um, I think those three...can you think of anything else outside those three categories?
DANI: With the screen time?
KATY: Well respect with why you're tuning in.
DANI: Well for me, I re- kind of re-routed or cleaned house and so, I'm choosing like to stay informed, I want to know what positive things people are doing. So I kind of changed my feed, my social media feed, to be about positive movements. And activism. Because for me that bolsters, you know, that's a community that I want to be a part of.
DANI: And instead of feeling defeated it's very, the word just left my head. Empowering.
KATY: Are you me right now. Are you me and I'm you?
DANI: Oh let me make up a word (gibberish)...
KATY: Great word.
DANI: I'm groaming. Groaming. No, but that's, I've just kind of shifted it a little bit.
DANI: Instead of getting frustrated I'm trying to empower, you know, my activism with that.
KATY: And simple activism. Like, I love that you just said cleaning house. So you're like out taking a walk because you want to clear your head. Everyone has issues that they're concerned about. Whether they're personal safety, human rights, environmentalism, economics. Like there's no right or wrong issues. There's just the things that you, personally are concerned with. So, can you merge your walk with those things? Like if environment is really freaking you out, when you're on your walk, pick up trash.
KATY: Right? Like you're cleaning it up. You already solved a problem. You can't change the whole world in a minute but you can clean up your local area in a moment and you can use your own personal body to do it. So
KATY: And look for anything else. You had some really great ideas. Like, if you're thinking about diversity or I'm feeling so divided or not part of a community, ask someone to go with you.
KATY: Like walk just to bond with someone else. If there's someone else who you know needs someone to walk with to be safe. Maybe you feel perfectly safe right now but someone else doesn't. You know, like let's walk together.
DANI: that's a great idea.
KATY: You know, just that kind of stuff.
DANI: Right. And if you just can't find anybody, you pick up garbage and just kind of list things. Like, make it part of your habit is just to list things that you're grateful for.
KATY: And notice things.
DANI: Yeah, notice things.
KATY: That's the nice thing about going on a
DANI: Nature's a fantastic diversion. Just fantastic.
KATY: It is.
KATY: But if you're stuck... if you feel like you're stuck in urban with no nature you have to start with small bits. You're not going to see a forest behind your house if you live in Philadelphia, but you will see dandelions with all of their strength...
KATY: ... poking through the cement and you have to pay attention to those. That is the nature where you have chosen to live so relish in it, observe it, notice it, because when you are aware, you're really not engaging in that other head space. Like that's what being grateful is all about. So pay attention. Look for it. Look for abundant beauty in nature wherever you are - no matter where you are.
DANI: Right. And if you're feeling particularly stressed, just a quick tip, go out with minimal outerwear. And literally, like literally cool down. I mean...
KATY: I love it.
DANI: But there's something about being cold
DANI: That just removes stress. I don't know what it is but it just works.Just take off without your coat and, you know, hit the trail and I bet you'll notice a tremendous difference in your levels of, you know, being freaked out. Just cool down.
KATY: You know part of our parenting practice are cold plunges. Part of our family practice is cold plunges as you know, but, you know we have one particular hot head in our family and no it's not me, and it's kind of like when the behavior gets irrational, it's like, "Time for a cold shower? Time for a cold shower?" And this unnamed person will get a cold shower. And it's turned into, just the word "cold shower" is enough to tune in to their behavior. And then the cold shower happens and after everyone's laughing, everyone's soaked, but my husband himself, he was, had to pull the car over, just in... this has been kind of stressful. Everything just heightened and
KATY: and everyone's picking up on the stress and it's like, "Dad's gotta go in the river." And we were all feeling ok but he wasn't so we all just sat by while he jumped in and came out and it was like, "Oh, it's gone." Right? Because you're taking action.
KATY: Whether it is a physiological removal of heat. Or it's the, the emotional state of heat or the fact that as in Movement Matters, noticing that you can't really really. You can't really really. You cannot really separate things in nature just like in the same way you would separate them in investigation. They happened at the same time so you went in the water feeling one way you come out feeling different and yeah, if you're not willing to commit then just go out without a jacket.
DANI: All right. That's cool.
DANI: Uh uh... see I don't even know I do it. See That's my gift. That has to be my greatest gift to mankind is...
KATY: Take pun-action. Take pun-action. All right, anything else? You also mentioned sleep.
DANI: Yes. Sleep sleep sleep and sleep. You deserve sleep. Make your sleep happen.
KATY: Well especially when, you know what, there's a particular mind space you get into when you're on the computer late at night and it's almost like a desperate look for things to like, oooooh, it's like, just like your kids when they don't get enough sleep, or your kids or yourself, you get a little like, whuuuuu....
KATY: That's not a good time to be informing yourself or looking for support.
KATY: Like we're informing you now that sleep might be your best friend right now. So...go to bed. Go look to... like don't only turn off your computer. Turn off the internet. Like just take a big step to say, "I'm choosing right now to nourish." And.
KATY: I don't know. What else. Anything else in our general...
DANI: Yes, well, meditation.
DANI: We've talked about it before. We are always constantly working on it. There are so many free things you can do to teach yourself meditation. If you don't know how to keep yourself on track. And there's people you can ask to help you that are, you know, people that meditate, they're so willing to teach others how to do do that because they understand what that means to be able to do. And I think, you know, now if you don't meditate, now might be a great time to pick it up.
DANI: That's a biggie. I'm a particular fan of head space because that keeps me on track and it really has taught me a lot. And also, you had one of those really good, you know, sometimes you can't take off into the woods like you said, but just give yourself 20 minutes or an hour to do a class, you know, a movement class.
KATY: An actual just movement therapy.
DANI: Yeah. Yeah.
KATY: Like I'm going to focus on something else. It's just the same things. You are taking, you are processing a lot more information than you are right now because everyone's just a little bit heightened and it's coming at you fast and you're like, "I can't read everything and it's stressful and what if there's happening that I'm not aware of or I'm not meeting someone's need or a friends" so just, sometimes just setting 20 minutes aside, turning everything off and move a little bit. Go take a class, go just invest in a little bit in yourself and see how you feel when you come out the other side.
DANI: Probably pretty good I bet.
DANI: I'll wager that. All right so that's like movement. You know, movement as a form of relief. I'm steamed, I'm gonna go out for a walk. Movement that metabolizes chemicals that course through your bloodstream and you feel better but I know that, you've written this book so you've got a lot more to say about utilizing movement as a tool when everything around us, the social currents, are moving in a distressing to us direction.
KATY: Yeah. And so I think maybe one of the reasons I feel so relaxed right now is, I feel like I've been identifying for myself over the last year or two, that the social currents around me are distressing. That was before anything else was happening. I was just, you know, outside my own regular life, like my life was fine, like my day to day, be on the podcast, go to school, be with my family... that was all great. But when I was paying attention to where the comforts of my life were coming from I found that I myself was engaging in behavior that I myself would say that was not the time of behavior I was engaging. Like I was mal-aligned because I was uninformed about what it took for my life to be so comfortable. So because I've already, I would say, become aware that there's a lot of unacceptable things happening right now regarding human rights, my community, the environment, that I'd already started a plan. Right? Like
KATY: Like I already had, I had an emergency plan for just this. And so it didn't feel like an emergency to me because I had already started working solidly against so many of the things
DANI: That's so cool.
KATY: Yeah. I mean it's like Duck and Cover. You practice Duck and Cover enough times, then when the building starts shaking it's kind of like "I was already going under the chairs with my hands over my head."
DANI: Right. That's awesome.
KATY: So it's this other idea about movement. One of the things that I love about Movement Matters is, it shows you how to be an activist. Literally by directly reclaiming previously outsourced movements. The fact that you can take action against so many of the issues that you're feeling, you know, worried about, you yourself can be compounding those problems just through a lack of awareness of what you're life is really based upon. So, that's the kind of movement that I think people were reading, they're like, "Oh, I can improve human rights simply by doing this and not doing that."
DANI: Right. Well, it definitely counters the overwhelm.
DANI: That you can feel reading that book at first. Now it's like this fantastic, you know, guide book.
KATY: Yeah. And who knew? Like who knew that it would come out right at this time. Like to me, it was this book about global...the impact of global movement. But we can scale it right down to national.
KATY: I don't get it.
DANI: Like Nostradamus - Katy-damus. You're not the only one that can make up words.
KATY: Nostra - is that about the nose.
DANI: No. About the future, you know
DANI: You have this great book that comes out and we need it. Thanks.
KATY: You're welcome. But I was like, look at your movement in the world. Well, you can just start looking at it with your family and your community. Whatever scale feels right for you. So what are some types of movements that people can do right now that will better them directly but also affect some of these larger issues. So PMS - does everyone have PMS?
DANI: Working on it!
KATY: So, that is your personal mission statement. And if you can listen to two, maybe two shows ago, I don't even know.
DANI: Yes, yeah yeah.
KATY: Whatever, just go look at the PMS show...
DANI: Three shows ago.
KATY: And then also it's in Movement Matters. But this is a really good time, right now, to have a personal or a family mission statement and to look at all the choices and the actions that you do. We talk about, you know, vote with your dollars. Like, I think vote with your dollars has been a good - like you know no matter how you feel about the outcomes of the current political scene. The reality is --- I shouldn't say the reality ... the additional facts are where you put your money changes how things happen.
KATY: So, you have to really take a goo... so, for example, a big issue that I am very concerned with is the pipeline, North Dakota. Today the day that we're recording is the everyone take action day. We’re trying to figure out if we can actually go to North Dakota later this month. But tonight we're driving to Seattle, which is a few hours away, to join the peaceful protest or the sit in there
KATY: But I saw a great article about, you know, at the end of the day, to the beginning of the day, or the middle of the day, the banks are the ones that are giving the funding. If these are one of your banks you could take your... you could not directly fund it. Like now I'm directly funding it because my bank's on the list.
DANI: Let them know when you leave.
KATY: That's the thing. And they're so great. It's like here are the letters you can write. Here's the person in charge of making that decision so it's like "here's the amount that I'm taking and I'm putting it over here." It's just another decision but in times of, I don't want to say times of crisis. In times when what is happening finally caught your attention is probably more what's going on. When the focus just happened to move in front of your face is the time when you can then check your alignment
KATY: You know, if you will and everything. So that was a really great way. No one has to drive or go anywhere. They could simply go, "You know, I don't' want my finding to go here." So that's why you vote with your dollars but I think at this point you vote with your awareness.
DANI: Right. It'd be so cool to be able to go to the North Dakota pipeline and say, you know and help protest" but if you can't then you can do things like pull your money from people that support it, you know, pull your support. And you can support those who are protesting, like our neighborhood just organized a big thing where we're taking home winter clothes and somebody's driving them up there from Colorado.
DANI: so that there's like, they have winter clothes. They can stand there and that's, you know, there's so many different ways to be an activist.
KATY: How about just having a party and introducing the idea to the... I mean, there's a great, there are some great lists about here are some ways that you can take action. So many people don't even know. To just have your friends over and look at, read the things online together. When someone has a question, like you know, "oh, I'm sure that can't be right. Cuz x and y." It's like, let's look it up.
KATY: Like let's do it right now, together, to make sure that the skepticism isn't really just inaction in disguise.
KATY: You want to make sure that your skepticism is the next question you're driven to rather than what shuts you down and asking another question.
DANI: Then just walking away. Yeah. Totally.
KATY: So that's a difference between skepticism and in-activism or sedentarism - whatever is the sedentary equivalent is the skepticism.
KATY: So there's that. I like that you came up with the A.C.T. Is that your acronym? Or?
DANI: That's not mine. I read that a few days ago but it's like a PMS... you know, it's, you're taking action about what you need. Yeah, you're shocked but you accept a) accept reality which is, you just have to accept it. Ok, this is what's happening and then you create a vision. And then take action. A. C. T.
KATY: It's kind of like... I wonder if we could do a sh... everyone right now if they're feeling particularly stressed, instead of trying to do a PMS, to sort out their entire life, you could just write down on paper - not on Facebook - but like with your own, with the same amount of attention that you'd give a personal mission statement. It's like what are, what are things that are really bothering you about, what do you imagine is, like, the thing to happen? You know? And so, for an example, senior care, elder care,
KATY: that's a big one. That's something that I am concerned with. So rather than just feel like, "Oh my gosh, like what's gonna happen..." I'm like, hold on, I have an elder in my life that I could be taking better care of. Rather than being on the internet feeling badly that there's not better senior care, I could actually just be doing senior care myself. Like I could be doing it. And so, I had done a post about I have, I make dinner on Sunday for, you know, my dad or both my parents and then we get together and we hang out for a few hours and it's vitamin community, right? It's the stacked version. It's not just dropping off a single thing but it's like, sharing space, stories, experience, watching, you know, my kids, he's talking, telling my kids all these crazy stories.
DANI: Yeah, that's cool.
KATY: I mean, so it's like, it solves so many issues. Now this one isolated parsed thing, senior care, was really about gratitude, respect. It was so much deeper than just senior care, you know, like this nebulous thing, like, "Oh, I don't want horrible senior care." I enriched my life. My life got better. My family's life got better. His life got better. Where we got the ingredients from our meal got better. You know, it's just, it's very holistic. But.
KATY: Taking action is really, I think, the thread through all these things.
DANI: Well and you're not waiting for policy, you know. And even if you don't have a senior, or an elder near in your life, you can do things like go, go across the street and offer to rake the senior's leaves for them. Or just say, "Hey, you wanna come on a walk with me?" You know, how often does that happen. And then you're not waiting on policy to do bad or good things, you're just taking action, you know, for your concerns right then and there.
KATY: Well, and in Move Your DNA there was a sentence that, you know, I wrote it a long time ago, that just kind of popped into my head that is, you know, for a culture to perpetuate one particular culture, it requires that we view change that happens on a large scale first brought about by government institutions and policies rather than what change actually is the transition over time of many people making small changes in habits. So, you know, you can change.
KATY: Like you can change what's going on. And the more it's collective, you know, cultural thing. You know, you're talking about like kindness right now. I like that. You had suggested engaging for social movements in kindness. You know like, if you're worried about hatred and fear, like find a movement and
DANI: Yeah. Somebody started this thing and put me on, they just put me as a member of this facebook page and it was 1,460 days of kindness. And people just post, like they're going out of their way to do good things. And then they post about it and I always get annoyed when people are like, hey, here's my meal. But when I read about somebody, like, helping somebody out. That's huge. Like that just feels so good. And I'm so keyed into that page right now because if I feel in any way down or defeated, I just, you gotta look. It's that old Mr. Rogers thing. Did you ever read that little bit that he would get stressed watching bad things on the news and his mother would say, "Just look for the helpers because there's always someone helping" and that was the way that he could tackle the stress and fear, but it works for grown ups too. Just look for the helpers and be one of the helpers.
KATY: Yeah. Great. I mean, go help. Go help. Now keep in mind the best kind of help is help that also helps you, right?
KATY: Because it's like if you're not able to regenerate your physicalness you can't go on being a helper so you need to make sure that your version of help doesn't deplete you
KATY: But actually restores, rejuvenates, and nourishes you.
DANI: Well like Ben.
KATY: Gosh I love Ben.
DANI: Who is Ben. Ben. He just started walking just for Ben but then he started to notice the world around him more.
KATY: Became aware. He became aware.
DANI: He became aware and then he was walking and distributing the sandwiches that he made to people that needed it. And then he walked to raise a whole bunch of money for kids in Canada and that's a fantastic example. Because Ben's still walking, so Ben's taking care of Ben. But he's also taking care of a lot of other people too.
KATY: He is. So volunteer.
DANI: Ben, come to Boulder. Come on, Ben, just come.
KATY: Just walk on over Ben.
DANI: Just walk on over and let's go for some hikes. Yeah, but that's helping yourself.
DANI: Or walking dogs at a shelter. They need it and you need it.
KATY: Exactly, I mean there's a whole, I talked about activism in this book and it's like there's nothing wrong with activism where you know, you're giving money or moving things around. THat's great. It's just that there's this whole other element where activism, where every move you do can essentially be a political statement. Right?
KATY: Vote with your body.
KATY: Maybe casting a ballot might be the most sedentary form of voting there is. It's a very short, single blip. Right. As opposed to you could be moving all of the time in a way that communicates your values, your contribution, etc.
KATY: So just vote with your movement.
DANI: Mm-hmm. Yep. I bet you in your parks department, your local parks department, they take volunteers all the time, you know, because they're under-funded and so volunteer there. You're outside and you're moving and you're helping show value, show that you value, you know, something that might be in trouble.
KATY: Well, you're also caring for. Right and if you're worried about someone funding to care for but you yourself are not caring for, that's one place that you can get into better alignment. Right? You know I think we think that the responsibility is coming, like if you are a figure within a large group, you sometimes think that the responsibility is of the large group and we forget sometimes that we could be taking more responsibility with our own physicality.
KATY: So things that you care about, go take care of them. And if everyone just did that, I think that, well it doesn't matter what everyone else does.
KATY: It matters what you do.
DANI: Right. I was gonna say, just worry about yourself.
KATY: It matters how you feel. Just worry - and don't even worry. Just take action.
KATY: Just pay attention to what you yourself are doing. So hopefully, you know, get your friends together. Have a soup night. We've already talked about that for building community but maybe you could even talk about these things to get... listen to this podcast together.
DANI: Right. And even re-talk to people that aren't in your immediate circle of friends. You know.
DANI: Like what if you just went down the street and invited the next 5 houses to a neighborhood soup party?
KATY: Yes. Because it gets very tough once you start limiting contact to only. You know, like, I've always been, I'm really pretty prominently featured on social media. I've never uninvited, blocked, anyone in my entire career. Because that's not the best way for me to stay informed. Are you still there?
DANI: I am. I'm just listening.
KATY: Oh, yeah. I was like she's kind of quiet. So, and I don't think that, like, I don't actively go out really looking for any particular altercations but I just, I think open or receptive to is the big one. I appreciate dialogue. Fortunately, I've never felt scared.
KATY: So that might change. So
DANI: Neighborhood soup parties.
KATY: Neighborhood soup parties. Find...
DANI: You just don't want to isolate. You know it's always important, to, there's some people that might be alone in your community and more fearful
DANI: or just feeling alone, you know.
DANI: And even if they are, don't always agree with you. Soup. We can all agree on soup. Right?
KATY: Well everyone needs to eat.
DANI: Everyone needs to eat.
KATY: And really everyone needs to feel connected.
KATY: So if you can appreciate that. So politics or holidays aside, if you can just focus on "oh, I can offer these nourishments"
KATY: No problem. Like go for, if you're into environment or nature, you want more time, just think of this is just a good time to go, "you know what, I'm gonna build that nature program that I thought about." Or "I'm gonna go volunteer with a non-profit that matches my ideals." You know.
KATY: There's so many different things.
DANI: Well and there's really an ulterior motive for having a nature school, a nature program for kids, is if they grow up in it they're gonna care for it. It's like long-term activism. You know, you're getting your kids outside now, but it's making it important to them
DANI: for later on.
KATY: It's giving them context. All right. So that is plenty of suggestions, I hope.
KATY: So this is helpful. But you're starting something new today. Tell me what you're starting.
DANI: I am. Ok. We get so many questions and I want to try this and here's hoping I can follow through with every show. Otto, just make sure I stay honest with this. Ok. I'm gonna start to try to ask you one question at the end of each show. And it may have little to do with our topic. Ok? But just we need more...
KATY: What do you mean. We never veer off topic!
DANI: Ha. We're like the Simpsons, it starts off one way and ends up a totally different thing.
DANI: Ok, are you ready?
DANI: I love this question and I'm dying to hear your answer too. All right. Given the science of the importance of sleep, if it is a choice between an extra hour of sleep or an hour of movement, which do you choose and why?
KATY: I like this question.
DANI: I do too.
KATY: Probably for a different reason than you like this question.
DANI: Ha ha.
KATY: I find this question to be an indication, like, I don't find this question...this question doesn't actually exist.
DANI: Sure it does. I just read it.
KATY: I know...
KATY: How would you answer. Which one would you choose?
DANI: I don't know. I don't know because I value both but I
KATY: But you have to choose. How do you choose?
DANI: You know what I'd say, probably sleep. For me, I would say, well, but see I get enough sleep. I don't know. I really want to know what you do because I don't know how much sleep you get. I get a decent amount of sleep because I go to bed early. But I also wake up early so I can walk.
DANI: And I never regret that decision. I never wake up and think "Oh this sucks" I mean I'm happy to get up and walk because I got enough sleep. So for me there's balance. I don't have to choose because there's balance.
DANI: But I know you walk too, in the morning, but I don't know how much sleep you get.
KATY: Well, my approach to this question is about the form of the question itself. The question itself is very telling. This question, the situation is, when someone actually perceives that they have an hour of one or the other, that you have two options and neither one of the options is sufficient. Do you know why this is pertinent? I'm gonna just let you read between the lines here right now. This question, the assumption is that you can have one or the other. That there's not another option. And it's because we keep reducing our choices to this one...
DANI: Oh my, of course, yes. How long before I learn all this? How long? Really? Thank God you teach me every time. Thank you.
KATY: See, I would never ask myself this question. My question is "What do you need?" Go get yourself what you need.
KATY: Stop, stop telling yourself that you can pick a little bit healthy this way or a little bit healthy that way. Get all of it. You don't have to get all of it today. But, like this question is like trying to, it's to set up an, uh, it's to set up a false situation. That's not the case. You do not have to pick one or the other. You have picked all of it. You have set up your entire life. You've made all of the decisions of your life. You want them both? Then change the way you're deciding to do things and get them both.
DANI: You're good.
KATY: This is brought to you by Tony Robbins.
KATY: No but I mean it's just that. When I read that question I was like, this question, this, you're asking, there's no answer to this question. There is no answer to this question. Like it's an unanswerable question and when you set your life up with a series of unanswerable questions you're not going to be reaping the rewards that, you know, frankly you could be executing your freedoms to reap.
DANI: Dang that's good.
KATY: That's the end of our podcast on stress. Whoo. That's a rap. Anyway. Let that mull.
KATY: Is that good? Can we go outside now?
DANI: It's so good. Let's go. We're good.
KATY: All right. Well, we wish everyone well. And also thank you for listening all the time. Dani just thank you for all that you do.
DANI: You're welcome. Thank you.