What If Messiah Became King Two-Thousand Years Ago?
June 24, 2017 James Pyles	23 Comments
I'm having some frustrating connection problems today. I can get to Google sporadically, but I can't open search results, nor can I get to Amazon. I've tried a Windows and Mac computer and multiple web browsers but it doesn't make a lot of difference. I've rebooted my modem a few times and it seems to help temporarily, so I don't know if it's my connection or if there's some sort of horrendous DDOS event attacking part of the internet.
The reason this is particularly frustrating just now is that in one of my Gmail accounts (when I can get to it), I found a Bookbub notice for an eBook called A Time to Every Purpose by Ian Andrew. The Google books blurb says about the book:
After eighty years of brutal Nazi domination millions have been persecuted and killed in a never-ending holocaust. But this oppressive and violent world still retains a few heroes;Now Leigh, the preeminent scientist of her generation, is pitched into the final battle. One that ranges from London to Berlin to Jerusalem. But will she destroy what she loves to save what she can only imagine? After one more murder and one chance remark, now is the time to reset history. The new novel by Ian Andrew.
However, the Bookbub description is more interesting:
Visit an alternate timeline where Jesus was never crucified, leading to 2,000 years of peace — and a society totally unequipped to contend with the rise of Nazism. Will inventor Leigh Wilson destroy everything she knows to reset history?
I'm tempted to buy the book (although since I cannot currently reach Amazon, I don't know how) just to see how the author pulled off not crucifying Rav Yeshua and yet had him fulfill his role of Messiah in the first century CE (which is what would presumably have to happen for their to be 2,000 years of peace).
On my sister blog Powered by Robots. I'm quite tempted to write a short story describing the start of this alternate history, but knowing what I know theologically, I can't imagine the circumstances in which Rav Yeshua would have deliberately avoided the crucifixion and began his reign as King Messiah at that point in history.
It would mean rewriting certain very significant portions of the Bible. Not just in the Apostolic Scriptures, but in the portions of the Tanakh that point to Moshiach.
However, it is a compelling concept. I wonder how best to approach it?
a time for every seasonBiblical fictionian andrewJesus Christpoweredbyrobotsscience fictionYeshua
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23 thoughts on "What If Messiah Became King Two-Thousand Years Ago?"
ProclaimLiberty says:
Shavu'a Tov & 'Hodesh Tov — It's an intriguing question, to be sure. And it raises a lot more of them. For example, the gospels would have ended differently, if they had been written at all. Would Yohanan's revelation have been shortened to eliminate the tribulation and skip ahead to the second resurrection, the final Judgment, and the new heavens and earth? And how could the ben-Yosef messiah ever have fulfilled the prophetic role of the suffering servant to become a symbolic redemptive sacrifice? Indeed, placing the ben-David King Messiah 2,000 years ago might have ended human history a thousand years ago after a thousand years of messianic rule and the release of the bound Adversary to deceive the nations yet again. We could already have been living on the new earth under new heavens for centuries. Consequently, if we wish to envision an alternative Nazi era, it would have to have been almost a thousand years ago while the Adversary was again roaming free. In our own timeline, that's more like the era of the Crusaders, but perhaps technology development under messianic rule would have progressed sufficiently faster to enable production of V2 rockets, gas chambers, and atomic weapons. Gentile Christianity itself could not have developed as it did, because there could never have been an anti-Jewish Nicene Council, nor any of the other church councils that furthered anti-Jewish sentiment and doctrine.
I seem to recall someone saying that if Jerusalem had repented during Rav Yeshua's earthly lifetime, King Messiah would have come right then and there. I too have my doubts since Rav Shaul stated that the time of the Gentiles had to become full before Messiah's return. On the other hand, what if he had returned 1000 years ago? Then the 1000 year rule would be ending and perhaps with the Adversary now roaming free, we could be suffering under that alternate Nazi era.
Here's the link to the book on Amazon.
Sleepwalker says:
D. Thomas Lancaster, I think, is a Molinist like myself. We don't believe that G-d predestines little babies to burn for his glory, but rather that G-d knows every possible outcome, but what we choose is up to us.
In his treatise On Rhetoric, Aristotle points out how prophesy is suspiciously vague. Oedipus is told he will kill his father and marry his mother – something foreordained to happen. But how it happens and what it means when it does is up for grabs. In Oedipus Rex, the king does everything to duck the prophecy and ends up helping fulfill it. The Delphic oracle, during Persia's invasion of Greece, told Pausanius and Themistocles to "look to the wooden walls for salvation." This could either refer to the palisades built across the Isthmus of Corinth, or to the Triremes of Athens. Wherever the battle was fought, the prophesy gets to come true.
Now a cynic might scope that sidelongly and huff that it leaves heaven an outhatch for bad riddles. But then again, if Middle Knowledge is true the vague riddles simply accommodate all counterfactuals.
I think that G-d has a very loosely defined destiny for the World, which is that Jerusalem will be the capital, the nations will bring their gifts, and Messiah will rule the world. How that happens along the way is anyone's guess. But that much is inevitable, and all the intestinal and winding paths and crosscuts getting there (as well as who survives) is in human control. Lancaster actually drashed an elaborate counterfactual where the Jews accept Yeshua as Messiah out-of-hand, he visits Pilate as the new crowned prince and emissary of the people, pilate interrogates him (cut and past the exact same banter), Yeshua returns and leads a revolt, Rome captures him, crucifies him, then Rome comes against Jerusalem as Gog and Magog, he rises with his killed disciples, he defeats Gog and Magog, and the Messianic age begins then. And still all those gooey prophecies are still good for it.
People have no problem guessing that G-d withholds his presence or puissance, but take umbrage at him cordoning off his knowledge. In that, I think folks disequally yoke one of the three omnis. I guess I simply see him as withholding on playing Big Brother with your free will, treating your life like it's real. But that's me.
I'm in the middle of a sequel to my first novel called Axis Mundi. It explores the counterfactual world devoid of Yeshua belief ever spreading, eventually dying off to become as obscure to most pedestrians as Bar Kochba. The setting in the world roughly 2,300 years after the events of the Gospels, the world is neopagan amidst a sleepy era of prosperity and peace, Jews are obscure, and nobody even thinks about themselves as "gentiles." Monotheism is quarantined by the world powers, as they perceive it as a sterilizing virus that makes the nations uniform, the dour effects of which only one people seem to have immunity. There is a city in Israel called Surrecta. Religion is a corporately owned and operated worldwide cyberverse with billions of players jacked in with heaven at any moment. Consciousness is uploaded to digital substrates as an afterlife. Dreams are recorded and warehoused from the confessioner's shrift, sold to advertisers for trendspotting. A Jewish atheist detective investigates the murder of an antiquarian to discover that the city he lives in, contrary to what all the Tanakh says, was at one point called Jerusalem. And so it begins.
the dour effects TO which*
It's late.
Questor says:
I can only see Yeshua being first Ben Yosef, and then at his resurrection, coming in power as Ben David. With a full 3,000 year reign, one could have the rest of the Human 'week of Day's' that we are just entering into the 7th day of because there was never a mention in Scripture as to the length of time of the Kingdom until Revelation. One needs no further end time revelation than the Tanakh, with Yeshua on hand to come as Ben David immediately…or at AD 70, to crush the Roman Emperor as a fulfillment of Daniel, and at least have some genuine Believers even among the Gentiles available at the time of his return. However, one would still have to amend the Scriptures heavily, and perhaps amend Yeshua as well, which Abba might not appreciate.
Well, that's the trick, isn't it Q? 😉
Daniel Lancaster gave a very interesting lecture a couple of years ago on this topic, it is called How the Gospels Should have ended and it is available from their store.
Do you have a link to that resource or just the title of it, Richard?
@James: Blasphemy, blasphemy, all is blasphemy! Fortunately, Abba has a great sense of humor, as well as marvelous inventive properties. Richard's story makes my head ache, but sounds like a great deal of fun if I can manage to remember all the details.
@Richard: "People have no problem guessing that G-d withholds his presence or puissance, but take umbrage at him cordoning off his knowledge. In that, I think folks disequally yoke one of the three omnis. I guess I simply see him as withholding on playing Big Brother with your free will, treating your life like it's real. But that's me."
Yes, I agree. Humans have a tendency to try to limit Adonai to what we understand. Until we can see all that Abba is doing, we will not comprehend the exact nature of prophecy and it's twin, paradox. I choose to expect G-d's kindness now, since he has promised it, and hope for greater revelation later.
First, glad to see a new post from you.
Second, I can't really wrap my mind around this one. I do hope you get the book and review it. I hope that, at the very least, the author presents this as total fiction and not some "secret" or "lost" doctrine.
Here's a very short sample, Marie: Fluid Prophesies.
Christopher Milligan says:
It took a bit of time for me to find Lancaster's message, but I did find it on the FFOZ friends mp3 downloads page.
http://friends.ffoz.org/resources/companions-pillars/how-the-gospels-should-have-ended.html
Looks like you have to be an FFOZ Friend to have access to the material. Not sure if I could just straight up buy it. I'll have to look further when I have time. Thanks for going through the effort, Christopher.
EDIT: Yeah, make that a definite. I can't even buy it here without enrolling in their program: https://ffoz.com/how-the-gospels-should-have-ended-audio-cd.html
Ro Pinto says:
It was also in their Messiah Journal #119. I remember reading it. That one can be purchased without being a regular supported. $8
https://ffoz.com/messiah-journal-119-spring-2015-5775.html
It's very interesting. Israel repents, Messiah is anointed King, Rome comes against Judea, captures King Messiah, who is crucified then resurrected. In the article Lancaster says, "The generation of the apostles failed to hasten the redemption…but their failure does not exempt us from making the attempt ourselves."
All things happen according to God's time clock, but it's interesting to contemplate how it might have turned out differently.
I first thought of writing from that perspective, but by the present age, all would be said and done. But there's another obvious (in my opinion) opportunity for Messiah to have returned in the relatively recent past.
Mark Santos says:
Does anyone do not know that the H. Bible is the Plan of God (personal must know for proper observance of faith according to the dispensational Plan of God), first address to the covenantal people of Israel in the 1st Advent of the Messianic Period which already took end since last 1993. It seems that many authors, writers and researchers didn't apply this God's Testament and Covenants. It is a decieving factor if the authors, writers and researchers uses to generalized and pluralized the teachings in the NT Gospel! Plus the fact that the NT Gospel is already an applied Universal Final Judgment of God, read Mt. 25:31-46 that first applied to all literal gentile nations and what is it this judgment to anyone that obviously will tackle all faith believe is in jeopardy as Yeshua executed ever since 1st Century.
LOVE : New Jerusalem – Holy City
@James
The beauty of fiction is that we get to partner with God in creating a world. Not everyone can do this (albeit without His depth of mercy and love). Stephen King presented himself as god in his Gunslinger series.
As authors, we share a world that only exists in our minds. There, anything goes as long as it is presented consistently and realistically.
Go for it James!
Thanks, Ro. As I have told many people recently, it'll probably take a lot more historical and Biblical knowledge than I currently possess, but it remains a fascinating concept.
Autumn Cote (@WriterBeat) says:
Would it be OK if I cross-posted this article to WriterBeat.com? There is no fee; I'm simply trying to add more content diversity for our community and I enjoyed reading your work. I'll be sure to give you complete credit as the author. If "OK" please let me know via email, which can be accessed via my profile link.
If by that you're asking to repost it, that's fine as long as you give attribution to me and my blog.
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