When it launched, some dismissed Insiders as a niche program. Now, it's Australia's top-rating morning show.
Pauline Hanson is standing in the ABC's Melbourne studios, watching Barrie Cassidy as he welcomes viewers to Insiders. "The government doesn't seem to have a strategy to deal with [her]," Cassidy says. "They don't seem to know whether to appease or oppose."
The One Nation leader turns to her adviser, James Ashby, and grins.
Hanson is here for her first interview on ABC's Sunday morning political program, now in its 17th year. Her controversial remarks on penalty rates, Vladimir Putin and vaccination spark a blaze of headlines. First, she blames "failing" media for the blowback. Later, she walks back some of her vaccination claims – while maintaining the reaction was overblown.
It's a tactic copied straight from Donald Trump: whip up attention with provocative comments, then paint yourself as a victim of media bullying.
Hanson has long favoured commercial breakfast programs, but it was only a matter of time before she yielded to Cassidy's overtures. While most established series are watching their ratings sink, Insiders has more than doubled its audience since 2007, averaging 548,000 viewers this year.
This puts it ahead of Seven's Sunrise (522,000) and Nine's Today (473,000). It also beats every other morning-based news, sport, business and chat show.
"It's the most unfashionable rock star you've ever seen," says ABC news boss Gaven Morris, who produced Cassidy's political stories on The 7.30 Report in the mid-'90s. In 2001, Aunty finally green-lit Cassidy's proposal for a dedicated political program. Over dinner in London, he and Morris tossed around ideas.
"No suits, no ties," Morris scrawled on a napkin. It informed the show's irreverent ethos, distinguishing it from Nine's Sunday and Ten's Meet the Press. (Cassidy says the term "Insiders casual" appeared on wedding invitations after its debut.) But to some observers, a series "for political junkies" seemed doomed to low ratings.
Sunrise and Today have since borrowed a few tricks from their ABC rival. Unlike Insiders, neither is designed to be watched from start to end, which lowers their ratings. Across a working week, though, almost 2.6 million catch at least five minutes of Sunrise, and 2.4 million watch Today. Still, the crown goes to the show with the biggest average. This puts Cassidy, 'Talking Pictures' host Mike Bowers and the panelists at No.1.
"This is where you hit the bias question head-on," Cassidy says. "A good panel is one where, more than likely, anything anybody says will be challenged. The last thing you want is group-think."
Most press gallery journalists, he adds, aren't easily pegged as left or right: "Some critics think if you're to the left of Andrew Bolt, you're a left-winger. But there's a lot of room between Andrew Bolt and the centre."
As a former press secretary to prime minister Bob Hawke, Cassidy is an easy target for bias accusations. Yet John Howard is among his biggest admirers, describing Insiders as "fine example of a very balanced ABC current affairs program".
Once in power, Julia Gillard, Tony Abbott and Malcolm Turnbull became similarly afflicted.
Now, these evasive pollies get around 10 minutes for interviews, not 15. Executive producer Kellie Mayo has extended the panel discussion and added more video packages. The satirical mash-ups – which earned Huw Parkinson a Walkley Award, and are widely shared on social media – have helped draw younger viewers.
Despite more outlets churning out more coverage, Insiders continues to grow. Cassidy isn't surprised: clutter makes viewers hungrier for a weekly digest. For Morris, the "contest of ideas" is most important. "When the panelists are really testing each other's ideas," he says, "that's when we've nailed it."