Public Safety Committee on July 24th, 2020
Evidence of meeting #11 for Public Safety and National Security in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was indigenous.
Issue of Sytemic Racism in Policing in Canada
Gary Vidal
Tim Uppal
Greg Fergus
Kamal Khera
Gary Anandasangaree
Myrna Lashley As an Individual
Fabrice Vil As an Individual
Viviane Michel President, Quebec Native Women Inc.
Brian Sauvé President, National Police Federation
Ruth Goba Executive Director, Black Legal Action Centre
Dwayne Zacharie President, First Nations Chiefs of Police Association
Myrna Lashley
Thank you very much for your question.
That is indeed the issue: How do you use the data? If this data falls into nefarious hands, it can be used to further the cause of racism. You have to establish your parameters very carefully; you have to set your criteria very carefully. You also have to convince the population, especially the population on whom this is focused, that they are not going to be disadvantaged by this.
Before you release it, make sure you do focus groups as to how this will come across, how it will be used. That's very important; otherwise, you'll end up defeating your cause.
Kamal Khera Liberal Brampton West, ON
How much time do I have, Chair?
You have just 45 seconds.
Okay. Perhaps I will let Mr. Fabrice Vil answer my friend Greg's question from earlier.
Fabrice Vil
In my opinion, some of the things said today answer part of the question. I'm also going to send you some documentation.
Having said that, three things come to mind. First, as much as possible, we must take away the police's power to do lethal physical harm. If an officer does not need a firearm, they should not carry one, even for stops and searches. The rules governing stop and search are unclear. The Commission des droits de la personne et des droits de la jeunesse du Québec recommends doing away with stop and search practices in Quebec. Some jurisdictions have done so. Things are unclear in the rest of Canada.
Second, funds must be reinvested elsewhere. I have already brought that up.
Third, we need to ensure that the police play a community role, as citizens.
I can send some documentation about it.
Okay. Thank you very much.
Madame Michaud, you have one and a half minutes.
Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
I believe Mr. Vil's comments earlier resonated with you, Ms. Michel. I saw you nodding your head. Thank you for being here.
We were just talking about public policy, our role as elected officials, and this Indian Act, which is thoroughly racist. It's been more than a year since the MMIWG report was released, and no action plan has been put forward yet. The government is still using COVID-19 as an excuse, even though it had several months beforehand to work on it and present it.
I think we could go on and on about the problems, the repercussions, the sources of systemic racism, why it exists in our society. It's time for concrete action. So, what do you expect from the government at this time, concretely, in the action plan for indigenous women and for all victims of racism? What do you expect from the federal government?
Answer very briefly, please.
President, Quebec Native Women Inc.
Viviane Michel
Mr. Chair, is it my turn to speak?
Yes. You have about a minute.
On June 3, 2019, the report on the national inquiry into missing and murdered indigenous women and girls (MMIWG) was submitted. After the report came out, Minister Bennettcontacted us on June 13, 2019. Several indigenous women's organizations—which are very representative—including Quebec Native Women, met with Ms. Bennett in the Senate. We recommended that we begin developing a national action plan. In other words, we recommended that each province could already begin formulating a provincial action plan and we could meet once a year to summarize the work done by the 10 Canadian provinces.
That was June 13, 2019, and it is now July 2020. It's not because of COVID-19. It has been a year. There are gaps in the federal government's commitments and it is just too slow—
We're going to have to leave it there. Madame Michaud is well past her time.
A minute and a half goes to Mr. Harris.
Thank you, Chair.
There are lots of questions that I could ask all three, but I'd like to give Professor Lashley an opportunity to answer my last question.
Is there a practical way that you can talk about so that indigenous women, indigenous people, could have some oversight of police jurisdictions, as recommended by the report of the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls?
Thank you very much, sir.
I think it's important that the people who are victims have input into what's going on in their lives. It does not make sense to me that there is none, that things are being done to them and they're just supposed to passively accept it. I think they should be on committees. I think there should be an oversight committee that is run by citizens and the police. The police must speak with citizens; the police must confer. They must come up with strategies together, strategies that are accepted by the women and accepted by the police.
It comes back to the seventh principle, which is that the police are the public and the public are the police. They have to work together, or this will never get done. It will always be adversarial.
Yes, there's a big role for native women to play in this, absolutely.
That's a very good note on which to end this discussion.
I thank each of the witnesses for their contribution. I apologize once again for cutting you off from time to time, but, as I said, we are under the tyranny of time here.
With that, I am going to suspend, but first I have a suggestion for colleagues. As you know, it is Friday afternoon. We have staffing issues with respect to where we are here in the House of Commons. I'm suggesting that on the next round of questions I take a minute off everybody in order to try to do some justice to the staff.
Unless I'm meeting with wild objections and Mr. Harris is threatening an invasion from Newfoundland, I think that's what I'm going to do.
With that, we're suspended.
In our final panel of witnesses today, we have Brian Sauvé from the National Police Federation, Ruth Goba from the Black Legal Action Centre, and Dwayne Zacharie from the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association.
With no particular order in mind, we're just going to go with the order that's in the notice of meeting. Mr. Sauvé is first.
You have seven minutes. Just so I don't have to keep interrupting you, I'll just give you a signal around five minutes, and then around six minutes. That will give you some indication to try to wind up your remarks. Therefore, please keep an eye on the screen.
With that, I'll ask Mr. Sauvé to lead with seven minutes, please.
Good afternoon, and thank you for inviting me to appear today. My name is Brian Sauvé. I am the president of the National Police Federation. The NPF is the certified bargaining agent representing close to 20,000 front-line members of the RCMP across Canada and internationally.
I would first like to acknowledge that I am speaking to you today from the traditional territory of the Coast Salish people, which includes the Squamish, Musqueam and Tsleil-Waututh nations.
I want to start by affirming that the NPF and its membership recognize and decry racism, discrimination and bias in Canada and globally. We believe ongoing conversations, peaceful protests and education are an important expression of our shared desire and commitment to change. Racism is a very serious issue that must be addressed constructively and consistently.
Our members enter policing because they want to make a positive difference in the communities they serve. They participate in anti-drug initiatives, youth education against gangs, anti-bullying programs. They volunteer to coach sports teams and raise funds and supplies for local food banks and shelters, among other initiatives.
Our members have also all signed contracts with Canadians to protect their lives and their rights, even at the expense of their own. I want to recognize all members of the RCMP and thank them for their continued dedicated service to Canadians.
We support and protect every Canadian's right to be treated fairly and equally. In return, we ask for respect and fairness for our members, who put their lives on the line every day.
We are hearing more cases of members who are being yelled at, confronted, spat on and assaulted while on duty. This is unacceptable. All Canadians should be free from harassment and assault, including those on the front line.
Systemic racism is an issue across the country in all institutions. It is not just a policing issue. I feel that policing is being unfairly spotlighted in an important greater conversation, as police routinely address the issues experienced by our most vulnerable citizens when all other systems have failed.
Increasingly, police officers are asked to carry too heavy a load due to dwindling resources and growing demand. Canadians and our members want to see more funding for front-line services that help alleviate pressures on vulnerable Canadians and, by extension, the police. All governments must do more to ensure that all communities have the front-line public safety and social services needed to help Canadians lead happy, healthy lives.
For too long, our members have been called on to fill the gaps in the absence of properly funded mental health and social services, while at the same time RCMP detachments are underfunded across the country. Our members are consistently told to do more with less, when they are already overworked, overstressed, under-rested and underpaid.
Between June 17 and June 22 of this year, Pollara Strategic Insights conducted a survey for NPF of over 2,000 Canadians, which shows that 82% of Canadians agree that properly funding social services would significantly help alleviate thousands of potentially dangerous interactions between police and citizens every day. In that same survey, 78% agreed that both policing and social services need to be adequately funded.
Let me repeat that, because I think it is important. Canadians support their local RCMP and do not want to see police budgets defunded. They want properly funded social services alongside police budgets that allow the RCMP to focus on community safety.
There are many success stories across Canada when governments provide necessary funding to support mental health and police partnerships. For example, police and crisis teams composed of an RCMP officer and a registered psychiatric nurse respond to mental health calls together to intervene, assess and support people having mental health crises. These teams have successfully provided much-needed support within communities, and municipalities in Saskatchewan and Manitoba announced continued funding for PACTs just last week.
As the role of RCMP members continues to expand, so do training and oversight requirements. Policing in Canada is one of the most heavily regulated professions. The NPF supports this oversight and believes that all complaints against members of the RCMP need to be investigated fully, fairly and transparently, and resolved in a timely and effective manner. This includes rare cases regarding use of force. Our members are highly trained in de-escalation and appropriate use of force to address potentially dangerous situations.
The RCMP's own numbers show that use of force is exceedingly rare, with an average of nearly three million calls of service annually and less than one-tenth of one percent resulting in any use of force. This demonstrates how seriously our members take de-escalation efforts to peacefully resolve potentially volatile situations and avoid use of force.
The National Police Federation supports efforts by all levels of government to consider ways to better deliver policing services in Canada. We welcome any opportunity to provide our input and expertise. However, we cannot judge the provision of police services only in the tense and brief moments when RCMP members are forced to respond to difficult situations.
I would also like to add that when elected officials offer negative anti-police comments publicly or offer unguarded opinions on specific police cases in the news, it is not only unfair and irresponsible, but it often contributes to sensationalized media coverage that negatively impacts public safety. It destabilizes community trust and confidence in the overwhelmingly excellent work our members do.
I will end by saying that we must all work together to open ongoing lines of communication, to listen to one another and ultimately find common ground and solutions that will ensure that all Canadians feel equally and adequately protected by the law.
Thank you. I'm happy to answer any questions.
Thank you, President Sauvé.
Ruth Goba, executive director of Black Legal Action Centre, you have seven minutes.
First, I acknowledge that I am on the ancestral territories of the Ojibway, the Anishinaabe, and in particular the Mississaugas of the Credit. This territory is covered by the Upper Canada treaties. I am grateful to be here today.
The Black Legal Action Centre is a not-for-profit corporation incorporated under the laws of Ontario. We are a specialty community legal clinic. We opened our doors to the public in March 2019. We are funded by Legal Aid Ontario, and we are governed by an independent volunteer community board of directors.
Our mandate is to combat individual and systemic anti-black racism across the province of Ontario. We achieve our mandate by providing free legal services to low- and no-income black Ontarians who are facing anti-black racism in housing, employment, education, social assistance, human rights, policing and corrections. We engage in systemic advocacy through test-case litigation, law reform and community development. We also provide summary legal advice, free services and legal education.
BLAC appreciates the opportunity to share our perspective on systemic racism in police services in Canada. SECU has a broad mandate, and we are asking you to consider these submissions within the context of that mandate.
Through our work, BLAC regularly hears from members of the black community who are victims of horrific police violence and white supremacy. We all see it in the media. Anti-black racism is real, and we know very tangibly how it impacts and devastates the black community. Notwithstanding this, and notwithstanding the myriad reports from domestic and international bodies, the denial of the existence of anti-black racism continues, most recently from the commissioner of the RCMP.
The existence of systemic anti-black racism in Canadian society should not be a matter of dispute. This has to be the starting point for any genuine investigation into systemic racism in policing, if public safety and trust are to be attained. There is unequivocal evidence of the fact that black and indigenous people are disproportionately impacted by police violence. The fact is that the police in this country, the Northwest Mounted Police, the force that preceded the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, were created to control and intimidate indigenous people, and later, black people. Accordingly, we urge members of this committee, police forces across the country and others in positions of power to unequivocally acknowledge the existing persistent structural inequalities and history of racism in this country.
The ugly truth is that Canada was built on racism and discrimination. The theft of land and the genocide of indigenous people, the denial of the right to vote for women, the exploitation and enslavement of black people to enrich others, the abuse and murder of Chinese people to build railroads, the internment of Japanese Canadians, the turning away of Jews trying to escape Nazism, the persecution of members of the LGBTQ2S+ community—these are but some of the examples that reveal Canada's history of violence, racism and exclusion.
In furtherance of the global call to end police violence perpetrated against black people and in furtherance of our mandate to combat anti-black racism, BLAC has made the following demands. We've made these demands elsewhere and we repeat them to this committee.
Develop a nationwide mandatory policy on collection of data disaggregated by race, colour, ethnic background, national origin and other identities, to determine where racial disparities exist for African Canadians so as to address them accordingly.
Demilitarize the police. The use and deployment of specialized police units and their direct operational relationship to the Canadian military during protests disproportionately brutalize racialized people, criminalize dissent and undermine democracy. Evidence from the United States reveals that there is a direct correlation between the militarization of police and increasing civilian deaths.
Overhaul police oversight. While this speaks to Ontario, I would say that we are calling for this, in the context of this committee, across the country. In Ontario, we have called for the immediate implementation of the report of the independent police oversight review and the repeal of the comprehensive Ontario Police Services Act. Independent civilian police oversight bodies must be accountable to all members of the communities they serve.
We need a clear and public commitment to zero deaths by police services across the country; an immediate reallocation of resources away from police budgets and into public health, housing, transit, children's services, mental health resources, schools, employment, community centres and other social service budgets; complete transparency of police budgets across the country; and a reallocation of resources, funding and responsibility away from police and toward community-based models of safety, support and prevention to ensure that those who are best equipped to deal with the majority of calls for assistance will not show up to people's homes and neighbourhoods with uniforms, guns and tasers.
I ask you to imagine, if the professionals who respond to crises in our communities were mental service providers, gender-based violence advocates and social workers, what the outcome would be.
In Ontario, we recently had the death of Regis Korchinski-Paquet. I ask you what, in that case, the outcome would have been if a mental health service provider, properly trained in de-escalation, had shown up to assist her mother when she called the police, rather than six police officers with badges and guns. I submit to you that the outcome would have been quite different and that Regis Korchinski-Paquet would likely be alive today.
While this committee is looking at policing specifically, I note that the last point is related to your mandate to review corrections and correctional facilities. I urge you to develop a national corrections strategy to address and correct the disproportionately high rates of African Canadians in the correctional system and ensure anti-discriminatory and culturally specific services for African Canadian offenders.
The need for broader systemic change is critical. We are at a new juncture in history that requires us to depart from old ways of thinking and build a more inclusive, non-oppressive system for all. Black Canadians, indigenous people and other racialized communities can no longer endure the injustice of a structure and a culture of policing rooted in a history of violence and racism.
I thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.
Thank you. You were at seven minutes right on.
Executive Director, Black Legal Action Centre
Ruth Goba
Was I?
Yes. My goodness.
Ruth Golda
That's impressive. I didn't get to time it.
I should get you to train our other witnesses; then I wouldn't have to be interrupting people all the time.
President Zacharie, you have seven minutes, please.
Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Dwayne Zacharie. I'm the president of the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association. I'm also chief peacekeeper of the Kahnawake Peacekeepers, just outside of Montreal, on the south shore.
I'd like to start by recognizing the territory that I'm broadcasting from this afternoon. It's the territory of Kahnawà:ke.
The FNCPA comprises 36 self-administered police services across the country. It's made up of 21 services in Quebec, nine in Ontario, one in Manitoba, one in Saskatchewan, three in Alberta and one in British Columbia.
First nation communities across Canada come to the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association asking for change. They're looking for change in their communities. They're looking for policing services that are commensurate with the needs of their communities, services that are effective and that reflect cultural, social, intrinsic diversity. They're looking for accountability.
The First Nations Chiefs of Police Association strives to provide that to these communities, not only the 36 that we represent, but other first nation communities across the country. The mandate of the FNCPA is to serve first nation police services and first nation territories across Canada by facilitating the highest level of professionalism and accountability in police services, all in a manner that reflects the unique cultures, status, social circumstances, traditions and aspirations of first nations people.
In the situation we find ourselves in now, the First Nations Chiefs of Police Association is asking for change. We're looking for equality of police services across the country. We're looking for communities to have equality as well. We're asking for the government to recognize first nation policing as an essential service, no longer as a program, so that no longer do we have to continually justify our existence.
We want parity with other policing services, what I guess you'd call "regular" policing services. We're looking for full and adequate staffing. We're looking for people to look at us and say that first nation policing is on par with other police services. From an FNCPA perspective, we want people to recognize us as the experts in first nation policing.
We live and we work in the communities we serve. For decades, self-administered first nation policing services in this country have been chronically underfunded. First nation officers have been forced to work in conditions that no other officers in any other service have had to work in. Despite all of that, despite the underfunding, despite the lack of good working conditions, first nation police officers have continually provided excellent services to the communities they represent.
The severe underfunding of indigenous policing creates issues across the country. Policing across this country should be uniform, in the sense that everyone is equally safe and secure, not just certain parts of the population. Every day, first nation police services work on building trust in their communities. My feeling is that police services have lost the trust of the public at large, and without trust it's very difficult for policing services to work well and provide those services without the cloud that we're under at this moment.
The FNCPA was extremely happy to hear Minister Blair say that first nation policing services should be made an essential service, that recognition has been long in coming and that we've been overlooked for too long. In a sense, first nation policing has been treated with a benign neglect. The time for change is now.
It's sad to say that most times we end up in these situations and having these discussions when there's a tragedy. But here we are; we need to make a change. Most first nation communities in this country do not have a service that's representative of who they are. Most first nations communities end up with a policing service that's provided to them, and that service doesn't necessarily recognize the needs of the community. It's more of a situation in which the policing service says, "Here's the service; here's what you get."
In our situation in first nation policing, we work with the community. We provide a service that's commensurate with the needs of the community. In the situation I'm in, all of our officers are from this community. They're invested. They've been working here and living here their entire lives.
We need to make changes. We need to have an opportunity to work with our communities and the communities at large.
I understand that certain aspects of indigenous policing and the model that we use may not be transferrable to conventional policing, but there are definitely aspects of first nation policing models that would work in certain communities. I think now is the time to discuss it. For years and years, for decades, first nation policing has had to be creative about providing services to the communities, and I think that, by and large, we've been extremely successful at that.
We need to work together. We need to be accountable to the communities we work in. We need to try to provide the services that the communities require from us.
The FNCPA participated in this process today because we wanted to offer a hand. We wanted to be part of the solution, going forward. It's time now to work together. We have to develop a partnership. We have to go forward and be positive about things and get to a good place. We have to listen to people in the communities, and from that we'll be able to provide services that the communities need. We don't have to tell them what they need; we have to listen.