Best Lap Times On Sportbike Or Superbike?
By Crash106,
July 27, 2010 in School Questions/General Discussion
Crash106
Location:The Carolinas
Interests:Riding, Reading, Writing, Movies, Walking, Travel.
Just curious--In terms of lap times, do racers go faster on a 600 or 1,000? I feel better on a less jittery bike and think that would probably be the 1,000. But those darned 650 Sportbikes are flying too! I couldn't find AMA lap/track records. Does anybody know?
Location:Syracuse, NY
Interests:Cooking-Wine
Crash;
The Top Lap times from the Laguna Seca weekend are as follows:
MotoGP - 1:21.376 Casey Stoner
AMA Superbike - 1:24.691 Josh Hayes
AMA Pro Sportbike - 1:27.586 Martin Cardenas
The Sport Bike races are really a knock down drag out knife fight every week but despite the appearances to the contrary, they are not faster. Personally they have become my favorite races to watch this season because you truely don't know who is going to win from week to week.
deadsmiley
Location:White House, TN
Interests:Computers, shooting (mostly pistols), Bikes, Politics and my plan on ruling the WORLD! BAWAHAHAHAHA!
Funny, I don't actually watch this stuff.
Where is a good place to check it out?
Edit: never mind... Google is amazing at googling.
Kelly;
If by "watch this stuff" you mean watch the races, in the US they are on Speed TV in the digital cable portion of cable service. I would expect the channel is also available with satellite service but don't know for sure.
ericdehaven
At Laguna Austin (a school alum) ran a 1:29.97 in Suspersport qualifing on a Yamaha R6..
This is a more realistic look at lap times on reasonable machines, as in supersport we are not allowed all the fancy electronics, and chassis geometry mods they can do in sport bike. So in short a Supersport machine is the same spec as you would see at a local club race, just with faster riders, haha.
I believe the OP though was refering too 650 and 1000 twins if I am correct, if so the 650 twins are fairly slow compared to 1000+cc twins like the ducati, aprilia, etc.
At some tracks 600cc inline four type bikes like the R6 can be faster then a similar 1000cc bike like an R1. It really depends on the situation and rider. With similar setups (motor, suspension, etc) the modern bikes are very close.
Recently Karl Lowery won the Willow Springs Formula 1 open class race twice on a 600 (R6) against a full field of 1000 superbikes..
For most riders a 600 is more then enough of a machine.
It was, and probably is, quite common for magazine journalistst to go faster around race tracks on (standard production) 600s than 1000s. I would expect that to be even more true if they were to try world level race bikes based upon the same street bikes.
Location:Manchester, UK
Interests:Erm, motorbikes, cars, triathlons, food, pies, food and cheesecake.
An interesting observations, and one that's absolutely correct. Do you know why that is Elirik?
I cannot say that I "know" the answer in that I haven't ridden either, but it seems quite obvious that the smaller, less powerful bikes are much easier to ride. The smaller bikes have less power and much less torque. They also have less rotating mass in the engines, giving less inertia and hence they are easier to change direction on.
Trevor Hedge of MCNEWS in Australian had a go on Adam Krusty Fergusson's Honda Superbike and and Supersport and said the latter was the best bike he had ever ridden, whereas the former was one of the hardest. He said he could ride the 600 respectably but was completely intimidated by the litre bike - it was just a lot of hard work with little in return.
Pretty much sums it up, Litre bikes are fast and powerful, and scare many riders to death in getting back to gas hard, hence why the 600's which don't have to much power don't terrify and intimidate to the same level. The bikes are generally lighter too, so they're quicker in the turns with that lower mass.
Your knowledge is building well here Eirik.
This past weekend I took my CBR954RR to Nashville Superspeedway for a couple of track days.
I spoke to a guy and his wife that were riding a pair of CBR600RR's. The man told me that he used to have a GSX-R 1000 for the track a 600cc sport bike for the street. The transition from 600 to 1000 was causing him problems so he decided to get rid of the 1000 and get he and his wife each a pair of CBR600RR's. One for the street and one for the track. (Must be nice, eh? )
This made a lot of sense to me.
Note: I don't have a pair of 954s!
Note #2: I have seriously considered selling the 954 and getting a 2005+ CBR600RR.
Note #3: My girlfriend rode 2up with me during one session both days. We hit 140 in the straight. She is taking the MSF course at the first weekend in September and we will be looking for a Ninja 500 for her to start out on. She is 5 foot nothing and liked the way the 500 fit her. She wants to do track days with me. w00t!
Makes a lot of sense. I can recommend the 2008+ YZF-R6 too
"How good is that?" :D
Or... <insert any relatively current 600cc sport bike here, as long as I get a red one>
Yes, it is good. When we first started talking she wasn't interested in bikes at all. Then she sat on my '98 VFR and with a tiny nudge she agreed to go for a ride. Since then she goes through withdrawal if she doesn't get to ride for a couple of days. I've created a monster!
Last Thursday before the track days (which started on Friday) she went on her first ride with me on the 954. I didn't think she would like it. I was wrong. Way wrong. She said it felt a lot more stable in the corners (and she's right) and that the wind protection was better for her. The pillion seat didn't bother her either. She loved riding it on the track.
I told her from the very beginning that if I go to fast or do something we need to talk about to punch me in the back of the helmet twice so I know it wasn't an accident. It hasn't happened yet!
Honestly, I started out very easy. Just cruising around the back roads. Each time we went out I upped the pace by a small amount so I didn't scare her. I have heard too many stories of first time passengers that would never get back on the bike again because the rider thought it would be "cool" to scare the stuffing outta them. I didn't want to do that.
</end thread jack>
fossilfuel
Location:Spanish Fort, Al
Interests:Motorcycle racing....Living life to the fullest...exercise, exercise, exercise...Music, not all but most...passionate people...Good wine...Good food...Good beer.
If you are going to get a CBR600RR get the 20008. A fantastic bike, it is the preferred bike in World Supersport and BSB Supersport. You can get a good deal on an '08 and the 09 and 2010 are the same bike. I love the ride. I had to make a decision on either a CBR600RR or a CBR1000RR....twenty pounds difference and 45 more horsepower..
I checked some lap times around here, and found that any competently 1000 ridden around a track is going to be faster. We have some small tracks around here, as short as one mile, and the literbikes have the records. The longer the track, the larger the disparity in the lap time is pretty much the result. I have no doubt there are tracks where 600's hold the time record, but they are probably newer tracks, or they don't have enough literbikes putting miles on them.
acebobby
Interests:Motorbikes, Moto GP, WSBK, any motorcycle racing! personally I like track riding, motoX, and touring! Recently I have taken to cycling and am planning on entering some sportives early next year! I also like to swim and keep myself in good shape!
Hi Jason, I think for the top guys, the guys that can handle these bikes at there limits the 1000s are always going to be faster, so they should hold the lap records! But I think that an average rider would be able to lap a 600 faster than they could 1000! I think!
GregGorman
Location:Atlanta, GA, USA
Well I'm about to find out first hand. One 39 year old, 215lb rider, same track, very similar competition, two different bikes, two weeks apart.
The 1000 is my own Supersport spec 2008 ZX-10R. At the WERA National Endurance race at Barber Motorsports Park, on 9/11, I recently did a best of 1:33.964.
The 600 is Geoff May's Daytona Sporbike Spec 2009 GSX-R600. Haven't ridden it yet but I have setup the controls and sag on it and it feels more comfortable than my 10. Being a 600 I know it's going to be more responsive side to side which will hopefully make a big difference at Barber. I'll be racing it in Daytona Sportbike on 9/25 and 9/26.
Fair enough test?
This will be very interesting to follow The unknown issue for us is your level of skill. Obviously, you will rank above the usual track punter, but if you are close to world class level, chances are you are also capable of putting the extra power of the big bike to good use.
However, it will be great to learn to outcome!
Thanks for the implication but not likely! Pole for Daytona Sportbike will be a low 1:28, maybe even a high 1:27. When AMA had the 1000 SuperStock class, pole was a low 1:25 I think. So my 1:33.9 pinpoints exactly where I currently stand on the world class level.
At Barber Motorsports Park during AMA Qualifying, my best time on the rented GSX-R600 was a 1:33.137, 8 tenths of a second faster than on my ZX-10. That was on Dunlop AMA Spec DOT tires on the 600 versus Dunlop NTec slicks on the ZX-10. During the race I did several laps in the 1:33 range where I've only done one 1:33 on my ZX-10.
I'm faster on a 600.
My top speed on the 600 was 131 vs 142 on the ZX-10.
Thank you for the follow-up And when you are faster on a 600, chances are overwhelming that your average track day punter definitely is.