Cast Boolits > General > Hunting with CB's > Small game with a 38?
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Been working up some light SWC loads in my 357 GP100 (basically 38 spl loads) and the accuracy I'm getting should work well for small game like squirrels, rabbits, etc. out to about 50 yds. Any of you guys do much small game hunting with your revolver? I have a .22 rifle and 10 & 14 inch Contender barrels, but the idea of small game hunting with this accurate revolver sounds like fun.
I've shot a bunch of small game with a snubbie 38. It's a heck of a lot of fun.
This little .358, 74 gr. wadcutter is a nice small game boolit. Not much powder, not much lead, recoil like a .22. Never shot at 50 yds. for accuracy, but tree top heights it's great. With the low recoil you can shoot like they do on TV. I use it in a Ruger Security Six, S&W 686 and a Blackhawk. Cases last for ever.
Cases last and so does the powder. I have thought the same thing about a nice mild 38 load. I load a Lee 158 gr RNFP over 3 gr Bullseye and it is great. It won't break any speed records, but it sure will print nice! Put 'em where they count and they will do the job, nicely!
Over the past 55 years I have shot a ton of small game with the 38 Special. At short range on bull frogs, I have used a 000 buckshot over a small does of BE. If you want to to shoot at 50 yards a good SWC bullet going 850 fps will do the job. You can do this with many powders including BE, Unique, 231, Clays etc. etc. . A good solid base cast full wadcutter going 850 fps is also a great small game load.
Light loads w/ 180 gr boolit in the 45 ACP works great on small game.
If you want to to shoot at 50 yards a good SWC bullet going 850 fps will do the job.
Chargar, thats exactly what I'm working on. Ideal 358477 (150 gr. SWC) over 4.1 grains of Trail Boss is giving outstanding accuracy out to 50 yds. I can put 5 rounds in the X ring on a 50 yd. Bullseye target off the bench out of my 6" GP100 with a red dot scope. IMR data says this should be going 850 - 900 fps. Mainly for Bullseye and IHMSA Field Pistol, but looks like it will be a dandy small game load too.
Now I just gotta find a left hand shoulder holster for this gun and I'm all set!
Grizz... I have been using the old SAECO/Cramer #12 SWC for 43 years in the 38 Special. Either 5/Unique or 5.5/AA5 does the job for me.
While not a good game bullets the Lyman 358311 158 RN is the most accurate bullet I have ever fired in the 38 Special revolvers.
A good solid base cast 150 WC over 3.5/Bullsye is also a good small game load, but accuracy goes south much past 50 yards.
I have not counted lately, but I must have a dozen Colt and Smith and Wesson revolvers in 38 Special with that many more in .357 Magnum. I guess you can tell how much regard I have for those rounds.
5 gr Unique and a 358477 in a mod 14S&W have gone on a lot of jackrabbit hunts with me. It also makes for a great grouse gun. Gianni.
I'm pretty happy with a 35863 over 4.0 gr. of Unique. Pops the heads off of Grouse, kills rabbits and cats dead. Not much more you could ask for.
Reminds me of my earliest venture into reloading and casting. Lyman single cav. 148gr. WC, pure plumber's lead, ho-made furnace, long handled teaspoon hammered into the shape of a ladle, RCBS lube wiped on by hand, ~2.5 of BE dipped with a 32ACP case trimmed and calibrated with a friend's scale. Loaded on a Lyman Spartan press with Lyman dies.
Shot very well from my dad's ancient 6in. M&P.
While moving some lumber for the new home I was building for my young family, I found that the local field mouse population had taken up residence in my future house. Not being one to let an opportunity slip by, I decided to see just how good this mouse load was.
Well, three or four cylinders full netted two or three good solid center hits and a couple of wounded critters that required a "coup de gras". Post mortem examination showed that in all cases, penetration was "through and through". Expansion, even with the dead soft alloy, appeared to be non existant...one caliber in and one caliber out, but completely adequate for the task.
My wife, obviously lacking any interest in terminal ballistics, declared the entire endeavor a complete failure and a total waste of time, then retreated to the truck and sulked for the remainder of our 24+ year marriage.
The wife and I parted ways several years ago, but I still have the M&P, the Lyman mould, the Lyman dies and the Lyman press. I recently sold the house I built when this adventure took place and while moving I found the ho-made powder dipper and mould handles I used to assemble that ammo. My younger brother still has the furnace....he uses it occasionally to make crappie jigs.
Just goes to show you, the important things in life endure.
Never used a .38 for hunting small game but must've popped several hundred barn rats using Lyman 158156s (w/o GCs) back when my wife and I were renting a 1920s farm house out in the country. Would imagine they'd be just as effective on rabbits, squirrels, etc.
I have used a variety of revolvers and autos for edible small game. My favorites are revolvers of most any caliber. I have several revolvers that make superior field pieces - SS Chief's Special 3" with adjustable sights in .38 special, 4" 686 in .357, and believe it or not, I have killed (excuse me, HARVESTED[smilie=1:) several snow shoe rabbits with the Skeeter load in a .44 special (a bullet thru the slats at 25 yards does not damage a single mouth full of meat but it is an immediate STOP). The wife and kids always appreciated rabbits without a bunch of shot in them.
These days I will be caught using one of the .32's for small game (most likely the Ruger SP 101). They can't be beat and you are not likely to find another in the field with you. I have made arrangements for some hunting land this fall. Hopefully, I'll have a bit of luck.
who makes the 74g wadcutter pictured above??? Or is it not made anymore?
It is a Lyman mould #358101, don't believe it has been made for quite a while. floodgate would probably know production dates. It's a lot of fun. Every once in a while one shows up on ebay. I did have two sold one and the one I have now has never been used. Yet.
lee 105 swc with 3.5 grains of bullseye. It recoils about like a 22 and is no louder and kills rabbits and squirels quite dead!
The little "button nose" wadcutter #358101 first appears in the 1960 Lyman Annual Catalog #42, listed at 75 grs., for the .38 Spl. and the .380 ACP, and taking the standard RN top punch #311 (doesn't match the shape, but the outer rim of the TP probably bears on the flat shoulder). It went from "stock" to "special order" in 1973, and apparently was dropped after 1978, when Lyman was taken private again after the Leisure Group ownership years.
The cherry number 101 was "recycled" from a round-ball mould #424101 for the .44-40, made from the 1890s through 1936. Lyman then designated the older RBs by their diameter only, freeing up many of the older cherry nos. for re-issue.
I have an article by Dean Grennell where he talks about light boolits and multiple projectiles. If you like I could email it to you, do I use the address at the bottom of your post? Let me know if you want it.
I'm starting down the road to find accuracy with a Lee 358-158RNFP. Just tested start loads; 3.7gr. #231. The load acts a bit funny, as I get slightly backed out primers in revolvers with what should be a very mild load.
It shoots pretty well in a model 92 carbine, though.
I'm either going to up the charges, or start over with Bullseye, which seems to be everyone's accuracy powder in the 38.
That is a pretty light load in the .38 Special. I'll bet if you increase the load by a ½ grain, the primers will reseat themselves from the slightly greater pressure.
I haven't done it for awhile, but it was fun shooting target level 38's through my 586 at rabbits on a burrow some 100yards or more away. If you shot into the wind they couldn't hear them and you had to lob them in like artillery, a whole heaping helping of fun! Mick.
Yep the E-mail at the bottom . That would be great I'd like to see that.
I got ahold of LAR45 about drawing up your .358 74 gr for a group buy.
I think that 74gr boolit would be a hoot to shoot.
It is a hoot to shoot. My biggest hoot came one day at an informal shoot at our local gun club. We had done some speed and action and later in the day decided to shoot from the line at targets and capture bragging rights. I had my Securilty Six and after several rounds realized I was going to be listening to the bragging and not doing the bragging. I went to my range bag and took 6 .357 magnum shells that each had 3 of these little boolits in them. After the cease fire the range master came down the line scoring targets. When he got to mine it had 18 holes in it, he spun around looked at me, and said where is the shotgun. I said I thought I would use speed loaders and this was a rapid fire course. I think all 6 rounds had to be fired in 10 sec.
Remember I said this was informal and we were all good friends. Wouldn't dare do that at a sanctioned shoot.
You mean like this H&G stackable wadcutter?
That is exactly the boolit Dean Grennell wrote about. I could never find and H&G but did find Lyman's 358101 a little heavier but none the less in my book fun. Thank you for putting that picture up. I have the Dean Grennell article scanned and from time to time some one will request it and I will send it to them. There's room for the biggen's and littleens in my range bag. Thanks again.
Hey Lucky Joe, I know you didn't make the offer to me, but would you mind throwing my email address on that email too?
Anyone try something like this out of a levergun??
So is there any progress on this? I'd like to get one, especially if it was an NEI or some other dependable manufacturer!
The group buy is open on this. Its going to be a LEE mould your choice 2 or 6 cavity.
GrizzLeeBear, I worked up a comfortable fun-to-shoot load in .357 for a 1:1 WW/lead bullet for a hardness of 8 - 10 Brinnel on the LBT hardness tester. The bullet is Lee's 158RF, sized and lubed to throat dia. and backed by 6.5 gr of HiSkor 700X. It speaks with some authority, but is still pleasant, cheap and easy to put together. Work up slow, the late load books don't go to this high with 700X.
I recently "harvested" (assassinated!) a north bound skunk by placing a 141 gr WC in his south end from my 38 Bodyguard. Unfortunately the wind which had been from the west chose to switch on me about then and,....... well you know the rest of the story!
Great load for target and kills what it hits like lighting. And fun to shoot too. (Reminds me I have 200 cases and those boolits to load. See Ya later.
for small game hunting out to 50 yards I always found it very hard to beat a factory WC target load or the classic 2.7 gr Bullseye over a cast or swaged 148 WC in .38 cases. The WC thumps them all out of proportion to the velocity. With a SWC I found 3.5 gr Bullseye to equal "standard" .38 loads and with 358477 it also is very accurate. The Lyman 358477 cast of very soft lead (50-1 lead tin) or recovered .22LR or pellet lead and HP'd with a Forster HP tool is very deadly on jack rabbits over 5.5 gr of Unique. Lloyds' load of 3.5 gr with the Lee 105 gr SWC cast soft is also a very good load. If grouse are included in the "small game" list a 121-124 to 158 gr RN cast bullet over 3.5 gr Bullseye slips right through them with minimal meat damage.
Lyman's 358156 GC cast of the same soft alloy and HP'd over 6.5 gr Unique in magnum cases is also a very good load for small game of the non edible variety.
These were taken with an old Flattop .357 shooting .38s.
I've killed a few critters with my 38.
Mackay, that Blackhawk sure has some miles on it. I'm guessing you have that holster on your hip daily.
I have used round ball loads with a pinch of Bullseye in .38 sp,.357, 44sp,.45 acp& long Colt on squirrels & rabbits for table fare. For the 38/357 i run a.375" rb thru a .358" sizer.Commercial .433" &.454" or the .44&.45. Of course the .45 auto bcame a manually operated pistol. Best, Thomas.
There are some nice side-elements to hunting jackrabbits.
1) Coyotes get to eat well.
2) Jackrabbits don't often charge.
3) Strafed-off jackrabbit scent adds seasoning to the screamer calls when called coyotes aren't committing to the siren song.
Most of my handgun varminting has not been done with loads specialized for the task--more often than not, I have used the reloads I prepare for range practice, which duplicate my carry loads for that firearm. A few years of trying my luck with the 110 grain JHPs my shop carried in 38 Special convinced me that for small targets--they and their imitators sucked. The Lyman #358477 and #358156 shot FAR BETTER, esp. at any distance. Those HBWC loads were great to about 65 yards, and pretty reliably tumbled beyond that distance--even without punching paper/cardboard while enroute.
Started out handgun hunting for cottontails with .38 WC's. Would bring them home to Grandad.
The WC's were too dang expensive so I got a Lee 150 grain round nose mold.
Twenty years later was zapping jacks with the RCBS 162 SWC and just enough powder to drift in the lead to where it needed to go.
And the deer rifle used #375296 and a compressed charge of 760.