I have read on a few threads where people seem to bad mouth "Cheap ammo" ... personally i wouldn't own a firearm if it wouldn't shoot anything i ran thru it, but that me. Now don't get me wrong i run the good stuff for EDC and HD but for going out to the range... i run thru the cheapest stuff i can find.. i don't mind cleaning my firearms, and the main reason is "Cost" try shooting for a weekend with the good stuff and you will have to sell your liver just to keep that up for awhile now if you are only going to the range once a yr then i can see doing that... But when i go shooting the wife goes too.. and i am lucky enough to have a private outdoor range were i can shoot anytime of day...Since the wife has gotten into shooting (which i love) it got pretty $$$ because we ran thru drills not just popping paper...And yes i cut cost down by also shooting 22lr (have pistol and AR version) but you still have to do live shooting and its not like when i was still in the Marines when i was pretty much able to shoot on the government dime....Not trying to put anyone down, but if you intent to practice and make it second hand, it will get $$$$ after awhile... I have always wonder why people buy a firearm go shoot it and all it does is jam...then they tell them "Oh its the ammo, you need to get the Good stuff" are you kidding me...LOL... if i can't run anything thru my firearms then it get sold right away... I shoot 5.56/308/9mm/12g and 45...and my crazy wife and niece love to go Rambo with the AR and 45 after we do our drills .... i love going to Gun shows and hear people always putting down the Russia and other ammo, that's when i jump in and offer the seller a lower price... Oh always do this on the last day of the show) anyway Why do some here always seem to run down the El Cheapo ammo??
I'm with you on the cheap ammo bandwagon. Thats why i reload .45-70.
My FiL is a noobie shooter. He was told by some dope that calls himself "Gunny" that cheap ammo will destroy his kimber or his extractor on his RGR 556.
I told him never take advice from a guy that calls himself "Gunny" that is not an active Gunnery SGT.
He refuses to shoot .38 spl in his .357 because "Gunny" told him .38's are bad for the throat in an S&W!
I know ruger had some feed problems in the mini-30 with steel cased ammo, but it was more of an inconvenience.
Probably good practice to have firearm that chokes on ammo every now and then to keep you on your toes.
My USP eats anything I put in it. A billy goat that never fails.
My Sig P226 chokes on steel cases every now and then. Probably because the loads are inconsistent at the manufacturing level.
Mako raised a point in my RPR thread about the limitations of .22 LR, even for target practice, beyond 50 yards. I've been mulling that over .... what's the cheapest cartridge to fire, once you go bigger than .22 LR? .22 Magnum, .223... what?
I'm looking only at a bolt, the RPR, so problems with feeding aren't too much of a concern.
Had some issues in the past with steel cases sticking and the small price difference between super cheap steel cased and not as cheap but still inexpensive brass isn't enough to risk damaging the ejection system in my gun.
My only real rule with ammo is that I practice with what I depend on. I don't have 1 brand/type of ammo for the range and then another type/brand for home defense.
I only practice with what I will be depending on.
If what I will be depending on just happens to be less expensive then that is a bonus but between the military and the State Police, I've ended up with a set of "mental" rules that I can't seem to bend on.
Train with what you will depend on when the time comes.
Depending on the weapon I run cheapo stuff and some not quite so cheapo. Glock 19 will shoot knives,forks or spoons if they could be chambered and can run Russian bear steel all day long in it. M&P 15 likes brass cased stuff, Super Redhawk is the same but both can be el cheapo stuff. Only picky one is my EDC LCP II which gets good stuff like Lehigh Defense XD.
.223 would be the next cheapest. You can buy buckets and cans full of decent ammo at low cost. .22WMR is not cheap by any means, roughly what you'd pay for .17HMR, but they will get distance and, depending on the rifle, accuracy as well. .22LR is a standard plinker that just about every gun owner has. It's cheap and something you can kill paper and small game with, without opening the wallet far at all.
When I was at the range yesterday a guy set up his RPR in 6.5Creedmoor and his sons in .17HMR. Both were getting out to the 100yd mark with no problem. A decent .22LR would get you out that far on a nice dry day with zero wind, but it just doesn't have the energy behind it to really reach out there consistently.
If you're debating going with your original idea, ask yourself why. Are you trying to shoot at greater distances than what the .22LR will reliably give you? Do you have access to places to shoot at those distances? Is the cost-per-pew important to you? Will getting the RPR chambered in a different round price it out of your budget? I asked myself similar questions before my last rifle purchase and I answered them like this- after all the reading I did, for what I wanted to do the 6.5 creedmoor was the round. I don't mind the higher cost-per-pew because I want a precision round that has a good reputation for reaching out far and this rifle is for shot placement, not just having fun throwing lead. It is also something I can hunt with. I don't mind driving 2+ hours to get to a range to really test the rifle and my abilities and hone them both.
Figure out what is important to you and buy what meets your criteria- both the round and the rifle. With what I've heard and seen the RPR is a great rifle, just make sure it's chambered to fit your wants.
I agree with the Cheese man...223/5.56 is hands down the least expensive way to put lead down range. The fact that it can be reasonably accurate is a nice bonus.
Regards the "cheap" ammo. Nothing in the world wrong with Eastern Bloc (subtle reference to my age there lol) manufacture and I include steel case in that. If I'm shooting outdoors I really don't much care so long as it goes bang and tries to group.
I would add one thing though. For the winter months I have 2 indoor ranges very near me. Both are new(ish) and have proper ventilation systems working. There is no denying that both Bear and Tula make clouds of smoke (my indoor rifle cartridge experience has all been 5.56) versus mid to upper priced ammo. What I do NOT know is...just because I "see" all that smoke and residue from the Russian stuff am I actually getting the same amount of junk in the air from the higher quality stuff? Maybe the powders used are "cleaner"?
Last thought. It's been mentioned before but you really can't go wrong with Sellier and Bellot for nearly any cartridge. Their stuff is neck and neck with the Russians on cost and burns way, wAY, WAY.....cleaner.
Genuine question- if I have a reliable, quality firearm, why do I need to practice with what I would use in a self defense situation at the range? I practice with a HK45 and shoot S&B .45 acp at the range, never had one issue. Will it really have an issue with Hornady C.D.? If I try it out with 25 rounds and it feeds cleanly, do I need to keep practicing with expensive ammo?
Respectively $5 for box of 20 and sometimes cheaper if you buy in bulk. I have gotten deals on line where it works out to $2.75 per 20 rds.
The problem BrianBM has is that his home state treats him like a criminal and limits his ability to make online purchases of ammo.
If you ever move to a free state, buy in bulk or get a Lee single stage Press.
Genuine question- if I have a reliable, quality firearm, why do I need to practice with what I would use in a self defense situation at the range?
It's always good to familiarize yourself with the performance of personal defense ammo in your EDC.
You don't need to burn though a box of Corbon's every range session, but you will realize that the recoil is different and be confident that the ammo cycles every time.
JHP's or ballistic tipped bullets may not cycle or feed like ball ammo.
Also, test a full mag of ammo to see if there are F2F problems on the last round. My Taurus PT1911 chokes on the 8th bullet if it is Ball ammo, but has no problem dumping an entire mag of Hornady Critical Defense.
I practice with a HK45 and shoot S&B .45 acp at the range, never had one issue. Will it really have an issue with Hornady C.D.? If I try it out with 25 rounds and it feeds cleanly, do I need to keep practicing with expensive ammo?
HK45 eats everything you feed it, but as I said before you may notice peculiarities in the cycling.
The only ammo that choked my USP was Extreme Shock - that stuff was novelty ammo.
Just make sure it can cycle a full mag of your chosen ammo before you are content.
Agree. Looking forward to the day.
It's been said a bazillion times, practice practice practice. Once you make damn sure your EDC rounds work all the time in the gun you carry I personally can't see it making one iota of difference what rounds you practice with. We're talking an 8' to 20' shot on average for defense, the difference in accuracy between cheap and quality is going to be insignificant at that range. So your dime size groups with your EDC rounds stretch to quarter size groups with cheap stuff, whoopie dew. If the cheap stuff jams while practicing then clearing it is part of the practice cause even your EDC rounds can jam. Right now I'm paying about 20 bucks for a 25 round box of critical defense, my EDC choice, need to put a few more boxes through my P365 with no problems before I'm confident with it, then I buy rounds that are less money for twice as many rounds and shoot my Glock.