OT Van halen....... why????
By The Big G
June 29, 2006 in Guitar Forum
Guys I am sure I am courting controversy but why do you guys make a big deal of EVH (general sweeping statement, apologies). Yes they were a big band in the UK but never really regarded in great high esteem, yes he has talent but for me a one trick pony and very middle of the road if I am honest.
He seems to be regarded as some form of demi-god stateside, please feel free to explain why oh why oh why.
I await......
dont abuse me be gentle
Im not a big fan either... But he sure is talented. Its one of those things, I think you either love him or you dont. Its funny really i've read arguments on other forums with people saying that Eddie invented tapping and generally that style of playing... Which he didnt There is alot of myth surrounding Van Halen, which I think has helped his name grow and grow..
He is definately an innovator and a damn fine guitarist thats not disputable. But one of the great guitar gods... well hes not one of mine.
Soundclick
Gabriel E.
You have to look at him in context. In the late 70s, the popular music was disco and overblown arena rock. Most of the guitarists of the era were doing the same thing. Van Halen came along with a very stripped-down, bluesy-yet-extreme sound. He inspired a huge number of guitarists.
His post-Roth material is middle of the road. But listen to "Van Halen", "Fair Warning" and "1984" and you can hear what all the fuss was about. He was a fearless experimenter on those records.
"You never can vouch for your own consciousness." - Norman Mailer
I think you have a good point there! As I wasnt born at the time I probably have missed out on that sudden change in the music scene. Im still waiting for the next big change to happen in my lifetime... So hopefully in 20 years I'll have those greats to rave about that the next generation just dont get. One of my friends raves about NOFX for instance, now I dont get it as I wasnt there to see this new style of i dunno 'poppy punk' i suppose you could call it so to me it sounds the same as all the other pop punk bands out today.
Hey Big G how old are you?
The reason I ask is because if you aren't old enough, you have to realize EVH ushered in a new approach and era on guitar. It isn't the tapping.. It is a combination of things. Keep in mind Eddie is one of the greatest rock rythm guitarists that ever lived. Also keep in mind his sound was REVOLUTIONARY. I mean 'the band' sound.
When VH was in their hey day in the late 70's to 1984 when Dave left, pretty much the whole world loved them, they were young, and NEW, and they didn't give a shit.
It isn't like now. If you were around back then chances are you would think they owned.
Eddie has one of the most underived unique styles of all time. He is extremely identifiable and his roots are hard to trace becuase he doesn't sound derived.
You could easily find guys who can play faster or more technical than EVH, but none of them have made the impact he made because he was first and he has that style.
Listen to his playing on old VH on songs like OUtta love, Simple rhyme, tell me that doesn't have tons of fire, emotion, intensity, all while sounding JUST like eddie.
Yeah, no one had ever heard anything like him before. That first Van halen record was like a bomb going off in the rock world. EVry serious guitar player at the time at least thought about trying to learn "Eruption", and a lot of them did. Van Halen almost single-handedly extended the arena rock scene for another ten years, because the whole disco thing was the big deal at the time(closely followed by the "Urban Cowboy" mess), and big rock concerts were kinda losing their appeal. He certainly made guitar salesmen happy becaue he was a new icon to inspire the masses of young wannabes, and boy, did dhe ever! The styles of Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, etc ad infinitum, owe a direct debt to him, and the whole neo-classical shred movement was his stepchild. And, let's not forget that Eddie is actually a very good musician, as well as a good guitar player. It's easy to see him as a one-trick pony, but that's taking a very shallow view of his music.
I was never a big EVH fan, but always respected him... and yes, he had a big impact!
Anybody who is good at what they do, I have to respect, whether it's my personal cup of tea or not!
It would be cool to have someone come along to inspire the next generation of kids to play well..
and I'm sure they're out there, I'm just not hip to them.
Dr. Ellwood
Originally posted by Eric Iverson:
Well I do like a few of Eddie's things very much. He did allot to get us throught the disco garbage and kept live music at the fore front and that in itself is enough for me to respect his contributions.
http://www.thestringnetwork.com
Originally posted by flagshipmile:
Well...I really dig Eddie and I think he is an exceptional player...
...but I WAS around at that time...and I WAS playing in bands, etc...doing R&R/Pop and Blues...
...and we never much bothered with VH music...nor did anyone ever much request that we do VH music.
And we were playing a pretty darn wide variety of music at the time.
So I understand what the Big G is asking.
After I heard 2-3 VH tunes...everything else they did sounded pretty much the same...just re-tooled.
And in the post-DLR years...they just sounded like they were trying real hard to re-capture that same sound that they originally broke out with.
Yes, VH was pretty much a one-trick-pony...but then there are a lot of other bands that only play from a single mold...so I'm not trying to put them down...just making an observation.
They did what they did...very well!
To meEddie took shredding to a much more tasteful, interesting levelbut there are probably at least a dozen or more guitar players that I like better
for their style, tone and ability.
But of course...to each his own!
And I do believe that here on these forumsthere just happen to be a lot of Eddie fans.and thats why theres so many EVH worship threads.
miroslav - miroslavmusic.com
"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."
[QB] Hey Big G how old are you?
i am 39 so yes got all his 80's stuff but probaly missed the majority of his 70's work.
I have respect for him as a player etc... as I said previously he has talent and yes I am sure he has brought a fair bit to the party.
But maybe its because I have always lived in the Uk and Van Halen didnt have the kind of impact in the UK that you all feel he had in the USA/Canada.
I would like to ask then with this change that he brought about in the 70's it would be considered like the impact Nirvana had in late 80's early 90's.
because musically I feel he was never really taken too seriuosly this side of the water, yes the traditional "rock fraternity" got it but thats as far as it probably went, and by the look of the first few posts you guys just go mad for it.
The punk movement in the UK changed the direction of popular rock music in the 70's certainly not
Van Halen, but I may have to give another airing to some his earlier work. See if I hear what you guys clearly hear.
keep them coming i still need to be convinced and thats a tall order!!!!!
For me, Eddie really revolutionized guitar tone and really exploited the legato style in a mainstream context. He cites Mostly Englishmen for his influences such as Blackmore and Holdsworth
His soloing has some most unorthodox rhythmic phrasing plus an interesting way how he takes the blues bok and mixes it up with the modal and chromatic legato appproach
Also, his rhytm playing is exceptional.
Check out "finish what you started"
I believe that he was definitely "the next level" after Beck, Hendrix, Blackmore in regards to commercial rock guitar playing
Originally posted by ellwood:
Ellwood
I can see what your saying about live music etc... and I do respect the guy and his band but the god like status that he holds???? The Van Halen worship that clearly goes on.
I am truly just trying to understand it as it really passes me by. Yes I refer to him as a "one trick pony" and as Miroslav pointed out as are many other bands, his trick is good though fair credit to him.
I hope I am not sounding to scathing on him as i am genuinley amazed at the level of praise that is heaped upon him.
I think I see a most delicious opportunity to do some serious Punk Bashing!! (rubbing hands together with sneaky,squinted eyes) What say you? should we give it a go boys?
Originally posted by Darklava:
Talk to Ozzie about how VH blew them off the stage
every night back in the 70's
Yeah...but is that really a difficult task?
There's probably a lot of bands that could do that!
By all means Ellwood, fill your boots as we would say.
Well ya know what! I can't honestly argure with you on this! I get tired on the constant EVH references but hay they probably get very tired of me doing Hendrix/SRV/Johnny Winter references too. I have to agree that playing constantly in cover bands through ALL these phases we never did get much call for Halen covers, that was a good observation actually!
A String
I just loved the energy. Listen to the first few albums. They were on fire.
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The Bear Jew
Let's not forget what VH was... a party rock band! And, seriously, who did it better in the band's early days?
Let's break it down....
A flashy but rockin' John Bonham-like drummer.
A rock solid, energetic showman of a bassist who stomps on basses for a solo.
An insane, grinning, chain-smoking, partying, guitar wizard who doesn't think twice about hacking chunks out of guitars "just to see what happens."
A leaping, squealing, flipping, outrageous drunken bluesman of a singer with arguably one of the most compelling stage demeanors in rock....
Playing upbeat, funky, danceable rock music in front of a back drop of spontaneous inventions, flying surfboards, giant bottles of Jack Daniels and flaming swords.
On top of all this... the music is actually engaging and fairly well written... it's complex enough for the techy people to geek out on the guitar parts, but accessible and and raunchy enough for the average Joe SixPack to dig...
Then... use a decent-sized record label's budget to push this young, wild, rebellious band into an era full of bloated, lazy arena rockers and snotty, brash punk rockers...
Hmmm. I wonder why this band became popular?
EVH rode this wave and did what he did... there really wasn't anyone playing like him before his time... but there sure were a lot of people trying to afterwards.
"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."
--Sun Tzu
CMDN: yeah good break down..EXCEPT for the Bass slot! never, ever thought he was really up to standards with that band or any other band.
Originally posted by CMDN:
That's what I meant to say.
no cheating A string come up with your own arguments, but that would have been a good one to steal in on.
Now in America yes I am sure they sat on top for a good while but in gods country (just a joke no religous overtone, dont delete me A ) there sucess was realtively short lived maybe a couple of years. So is this a culture thing or just another example of a big band not really converting what they do on one side of the water. That last statement goes both ways not aimed at VH only.
Eh, I dunno... for that band, I think Mike Anthony pulled off the Derek Smalls "luke-warm water" bit pretty well. I mean, how much could the guy do with EVH zooming all over the place, AVH's racks of roto-toms and DLR's lunacy all around him?
Someone had to hold it together... and I think Mike did a decent job... although I will admit that some of his fills were kind of suspect back in the day--like the high notes on "Everybody Wants Some."
Now in America yes I am sure they sat on top for a good while but in gods country (just a joke no religous overtone, dont delete me A [big Grin] ) there sucess was realtively short lived maybe a couple of years. So is this a culture thing or just another example of a big band not really converting what they do on one side of the water. That last statement goes both ways not aimed at VH only.
Well... I'm not quite sure that VH's success was just few years... the band certainly toured the world many times and never seemed to have many problems with filling big concert halls no matter where they went. This may just be a matter of perception.
By the same token, I was recently at a bass clinic with Tony Franklin (The Firm, Blue Murder), and he said that as a kid growing up in the UK, he never thought Led Zeppelin was a really big deal until he started playing with Jimmy Page and touring in the US... that was when he realized just how many fans the band had...
So I think it might be a matter of perceived success (or the perceieved lack thereof) versus actual success levels.
CMDN you have a point with perception of a bands size etc.... i always appreciated they had a big following in the North America and for a time a good following in the UK, yes they filled venues and would do again if they toured. Maybe its just me I dont see him as a guitar great as he seems to be heralded by many, but maybe I just missed it
fantasticsound
What all the positive comments on this thread are missing is how different Eddie was, in a good way. He was the Michael Jordan of guitar players.
Michael didn't invent dunking. He simply advanced it to a new level that was far and away above anything others were doing at the time. He didn't invent driving to the basket. But he seemed to effortlessly slip past defenders and score almost at will in the early days. As his career progressed and he began to slow down to the level of his peers, he redeveloped his style to a fade-away jumper that was all but indefensible in conjunction with his ability to put defenders off balance.
In parallel, Eddie didn't invent legato playing or tapping, but his command of these techniques and, more importantly, his unique style in performing them set him head and shoulders above players who were faster or more complex. In fact, I think the combination of notes that are complex in Eddie's playing while still being totally accessable to the average listener is the key to his popularity among guitar players. Also, Eddie has an uncanny ability to add notes that technically don't fit in the time of a song and still make each line sound smooth as silk and locked with the rhythm section. And, as mentioned, his rhythm playing and chord voicings have always been more interesting than the typical power chord rock.
Later in his career, instead of learning to play faster (as the young guns began doing a decade or so after his initial rise), like Jordan he redefined his playing style a bit and focused more attention on his keyboard playing. I love both incarnations of VH, with DLR and SH.
There are plenty of immitators, but I have yet to hear the guitar player that sounds quite like Eddie. There's a shear joy in most everything he plays that shines through. It's no wonder he's smiling all the time. But does the attitude inspire the music or the music inspire the attitude?
It's easiest to find me on Facebook. Neil Bergman
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Squ
Well, Big G, who are your favorite guitar players? Old and new? From the Gretch in your avatar you may not be interested in Van Halen-esque music.
Red Red Rockit
Originally posted by miroslav:
Now now, Ozzy always had great musicians in his solo bands, even then. Geez, the guy I don't understand all the excitement about is Randy Rhodes. He played on one album(Ithink) before he died, and some folks lionize him like he made a major contribution to guitar. He was great, yeah, but one of many by that time.
Wow! I'm glad I'm not the only one. I used to wonder if he was just an old friend they brought along, because they were to close to him, to kick him out. He never fit, talent wise IMO. He certainly had energy that was suited, but his playing just never did anything for me other then make me wonder why he was in that band.
Leave Mike alone he has great vocals and he's
right there in the pocket and not over playing
which is what you want if your a guitar player.
Perfect for the band,some of you guys think too much.Look what they did and look what we're doing
but we are the experts
I suppose I should also add that I don't think anyone else sitting in Mike's spot would "feel" right. However, I was just never impressed with his playing. He always seemed to do a lot of "single note/quarter note repeating" bass lines and some questionable runs.
Originally posted by Picker:
Blizzard of Oz
and Diary Of A madman
RR was a fantastic player who incorporated classical flavours.
when you think of the time and what was being played, he was ahead of his time.
one solo that just rips is "Revelation mother earth".
not only was he a great soloist, he was a great writer and rythym player.
Randy did alot for metal.
the song "diary of a madman" is in a league of its own.
try to remember the years these recordings were released to really put it into perspective.
two awesome albums.
now just imagine what he would have achieved if he didn't pass away.