How many bog turtles need to be left before they should be considered rare? The total number left is probably similar to some of the "rarest" animals on the planet.
How many bog turtles are left now? Some of the "rarest" animals on the planet might not be all that rare it all depends on who's doing the book keeping. Bog turtles are found on a regular basis in numerous locations across a wide range. Granted an accompanying disclaimer that the animals are not found in high numbers and are in small fragmented populations might be legitimately made. The fact still remains that if anyone wants to argue from the standpoint that these animals are hard to find. Then it stands to reason that the actual numbers present in a given area or across the entire range might be substantially higher then suspected. This might even be the most likely scenario.
What other rarest animal in the world does this compare to?
Just because a species may be locally common does not mean it is not a rare species. And there are few areas where this species could be considered locally common, some of the southern most locations may single digit animals left.
Actually it does. A truly rare species is never common. Anywhere. As for your
hypothetical estimation that some of the southern most locations may only have single digit animals left. It goes back to this....... using statistics from areas where a species was never common to mark an overall decline can be very misleading. Locally "rare" does not make the word rare apply to the species as a whole. A common species that is rare in certain localities is still a common species. Its just not common everywhere. It always goes back to the numbers game. What number do we want to put on what category and how are these numbers arrived at. What are the accuracy of these numbers? Who's keeping score?
Just because an animal is hard to find does not negate the seriousness of being poached. It is a fact they sell for >$1000 on the right market. Some populations can really hurt from losing a few adult turtles considering the low recruitment/sexual maturity age in many turtle species.
Not entirely but it certainly limits the threat. If you cant catch them you cant poach them. The rest is the common argument but its also one that really doesn't hold true in a healthy sustainable turtle population. In that case. Losing a few adults means nothing. On the other hand if a turtle population is so small that it can be really hurt by losing just a few individuals and by the other issues raised...in the long run with few exceptions its already doomed. And that brings me back to the original point. From what some are saying. Bog turtles are very hard to find even in the best places. If these animals are so difficult to find. What are the chances of a poacher finding even a few turtles. In a population that is so small and has so few adults it cant sustain the loss of only a couple animals?
Comparing turtles in the US to vipers in the tropics is like comparing apples and oranges. Is someone were to say ok you only have x number of days to catch as many of this species of turtle. Of North American turtles, the bog turtle would be amongst the hardest to find, probably the hardest.
No, it was apples to apples based on what was said previously. I made a statement, you quoted that statement then in response you asked "What exactly would you consider "hard species" then if bog turtle isn't one?" Now you want to narrow the parameters of the question after the fact to just these animals in this place?
My comments clearly were never specific to North American turtles and nether was your question as stated. My answer was given as your question read based on the difficulty of finding a given species. How the word "hard" applies to collection of the species. Bog turtles are hard to find compared to softshell turtles but easy to find compared to the Borneo earless monitor. That leaves a whole lot of in between but the bottom line is bog turtles are found fairly frequently.
Ernie, do you just want people to say everything is relative and nothing means anything?
Examining why and how something is relative puts it into perspective. Without putting things into a clear perspective nothing means anything. Except the IRS.
if i ever decide to describe something based on my own judgment, i'll make sure to check with you first.-ben
Why the smart comment ben? What's your problem with the questions I asked. A general statement relevant to the topic was made and I asked for some clarification of that statement. Along with that I added my own take. What was said, was said in fairly concise manor. A constructive post as opposed to............why did you butt in with that silly comment? Maybe you do need to check with someone first.