View Full Version : The Battle of Poltava
January 10th, 2004, 04:50 PM
I want to write a timeline about a Scandinavian superpower and am wondering what the immediate results of a Swedish victory in the Great Northern War would have been?
January 10th, 2004, 05:12 PM
January 10th, 2004, 05:14 PM
No, No, I've read that. I'm not asking how or why Sweden won the war, but what the actual results of a victory (unlikely as it may be) would have been.
January 11th, 2004, 06:06 PM
January 11th, 2004, 06:09 PM
That's good but I think he has Sweden becoming too powerful. If I understand, he has them controlling all of northern RUssia and Siberia, plus Australia. I don't think that Sweden has the population base to become that powerful. They have 9 million people in 2004. The Russians alone have 120 million in 2004.
October 19th, 2004, 02:45 PM
If Sweden wins at Poltava, I think the war would have dragged on until another battle...and eventual swedish defeat. At least the war would be fought again in 10-20 years. The defeat would have only delayed to inevitable for some time, as Russia was becoming a powerful country and Sweden's power was slowing fading away.
Perhaps, if a Russian defeat at the Great Northern War, of which Poltava was a pivotal battle, a Swedish victory would inhibit the growth of Russian naval power since the Baltic was their best outlet at the time. (One assumes that if Russia lost the war, she would also have lost the majority of naval engaements as well.) It would also stifle Peter the Great's ambition to Europeanize western Russia, to make it more industrialized and more prosperous. Russia played a pivotal role in several European wars in the 1700's and early 1800's.
However, I think by far the most likely result of a Swedish victory at Poltava would have been that Charles XII would have continued the futile campaign in Russia, and get beaten the next year or the year after. But OK, there is a possibility that a Swedish victory could have resulted in a favourable peace treaty. In which case Sweden's demise as a major power in Northeast Europe would likely have been postponed to some other conflict in the not very distant future. Sweden stood straddled along Russia's path to European power status, and in terms of resources the odds were so heavily stacked against her that it seems diffcult to assume it was more than a matter of time. Short of Sweden defating Denmark so utterly that Denmark (and Norway) could have been absorbed into the Wasa kingdom, to say nothing of managing to make this more than a temporary affair and retaining the capacity to focus chiefly on outside threats (hardly a likely scenario), it's not easy how it would have been avoided.
Finally, you could annihilate Russian armies, but they would simply raise new ones. Charles' Army by contrast was possibly the best in the world at the time, but it was essentially irreplacable. One would think this might have told Charles that letting it wither away walking around Russia and Ukraine until Peter had a chance to trap it was not a very astute idea. When the sad remains of Dalkarlana, Närkeregementet, Livgardet and and the other famous regiments wandered off into captivity after Poltava, that was pretty much the death knell of the Swedish empire, whereas for Russia it would have been little more than a temporary setback had they lost.
October 19th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Could Sweden not have found a strong European ally against the Russians after winning at Poltava and burning St. Petersburg?
Also, what about the pyschological effect on Russia...after all, they only had started modernisation under Tsar Peter I., and if they are now humiliated in such way, might that not mean that many Russians would despise the "westernisation"?
Just some ideas. I admit that I am not an expert on Russia.
October 19th, 2004, 04:12 PM
As discussed in several Überscandinavia-threads ( :) ), I think it's too late for Sweden to gain Great Power status. Around the time of Poltava (1709?) Sweden is running out of funds, men and spirit. And, more importantly, Russia is gaining in strength, rapidly! Actually I tend to believe that the moment we historically begin to speak of Russia as a state, then it's pretty much over for Swedens dreams of Greatness!
If you want a Greater Sweden, you should probably go back to the 30 Years War and have Sweden conquor Denmark and playing it safe from there, then they might have a chance against Russia.
Regards and all!
October 19th, 2004, 05:11 PM
so thats were my timeline was. I woundered were i had it:)
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