- Hello, I'm Dominic,
author and illustrator
of Free To Be Me, one
of Penguin Platform's
Pride Book Club books,
and today I'm getting my
nails done all pretty,
and I'm chatting to
trans activist and author
Charlie Craggs!
(upbeat music)
Okay, so Charlie.
You're an amazing babe.
Trans queen.
(laughs) Voice for the community.
(laughs) What started your
journey on being an activist?
- Do you know what, I just got tired
of being treated like crap.
When I transitioned, my
life just became a fight,
metaphorically and literally,
just everything became so much harder.
And I kind of knew it would,
but it still wasn't easy to deal with.
Yeah, I just was being
attacked constantly,
verbally, physically, sexually,
sometimes all at once.
Actually one incident that
really stands out in my mind
is when it did all happen at once,
and I was at a packed bus
stop and no one intervened.
And I don't expect people
to fight by fights for me,
but there was about 30
people at this bus stop,
and the thing that hurt
most was that nobody
after it happened even
asked me was I okay?
- That's awful, that's awful.
- I know, it's disgusting.
In London and it was
like 2015 or something,
it was the day of my name change.
- So it's that recent?
- Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Shit.
- And I'm London born and bred
so this has just always been my reality
of being a queer person.
I was gay pre-transition,
and it's always been kind of similar.
So I was just like, "Do you know what?
"We need allies."
'Cause I had no allies that
night at that bus stop,
and I was like, "I just wanna do something
"to help build allies, do
my bit for the community."
And I was like "What can I do?"
And I think traditional
activism wasn't ready for me.
I'm not really one to be
standing outside in the cold
with a (laughs)
- (laughs) Stop it, no!
- Yeah, I'd much rather
be sitting at a nail salon
having a chat with someone.
'Cause I recognize in
myself, well I'm fabulous,
and I'm good at talking to people.
So I can do something.
I think you can make
your activism reflective
of the sort of person
you are, what you're into
or what skills you have.
So I was like, "I'm
gonna use nails as a way
"of having opening conversations."
So the nails are just a
catalyst for that conversation.
They're just a way of engaging
people in conversation.
- Very hands on approach. (laughs)
- Nailin' it, doll! (laughs)
- Yeah! (laughs)
(high fives) That was good.
- So I basically travel around the UK
with a pop-up nail salon and
offer the public free manicures
for the chance to sit down and have a chat
with a transperson.
- You've done some big
names, Richard Branson.
- Just a few, yeah.
- Not just a few. (laughs)
- Rich, yeah.
Yeah, so it's cute, yeah.
I've been doing it for
like five years now.
- I think it's incredible what you do,
'cause I think the way you
get to connect with someone
and sit there and do the nails,
and have a full on
conversation about them,
I just think it's unique
and something that isn't out there,
but it'll also educate
someone at the same time.
- That's why I did it,
'cause you're essentially
holding hands with a transperson.
That's why I did it, 'cause I
felt like we're talked about
in the media so, it's very
unhuman, and very alien,
so that's why I was like,
I just wanna make it more human for people
and help people to understand
by just having a chat
about X Factor while I'm doing
their nails, or something.
It's supposed to be just
a way of humanizing it.
- It's to remind them that
you're a person as well,
because I think the media has a narrative
that is very--
- Yeah, it's very other-ing.
- Yeah, and it's sort of almost
makes the trans community
out, or non-binary,
like some sort of aliens or something.
- Yeah, literally, yeah.
And we've been around forever.
- Yeah, exactly.
It infuriates me, anyway.
But I love the idea of this,
I think it's fantastic.
- Thank you, babes.
- I'm excited for you to do my nails!
- Yeah, what do you wanna go
for, the purple or the clear?
- I want glitter, Charlie, I want glitter.
- All right, we're gonna
go for the glitter.
It's gonna be a nightmare
to get off, but yeah.
- Yay!
Would you do this hand?
I've got really sausage-y fingers.
- I love sausages.
- Thank you.
So we're gonna ask you a few questions
while you do my nails.
- I love questions.
- I apologize for the
condition of my nails.
I'm an artist.
- Yeah, they're horrible.
Do you know, Richard
Branson's were so bad.
- Let's cut that out. (laughs)
(laughs)
- Hi, Rich! (laughs)
- Wait for those Virgin emails. (laughs)
I love the message your
movement, Nail It Official.
- Thank you babes.
- It's almost like a movement
and a brand, as well,
it's a lot because
it's basically talking
about the lobster emoji.
Can you tell anyone who doesn't know
what Nail It Official is or
how it works more about that?
- Of course.
So like I said, my Nail
Transphobia campaign
has always been about just conversation,
the nails are just a catalyst
for that conversation.
And then from that I wanted to like,
how can I spread this
conversation further,
'cause people can only get
engaged in the conversation
if they're coming to one of my pop-ups.
And obviously there's only one of me.
- You do a lot of them.
- I do, yeah.
- You work your ass off,
you do a lot of them.
- Yeah, it's my full time job,
but I still can't do it
everywhere in the world
and meet everyone.
So I was like, I wanted to
start a nail brand where people,
basically they're thematic
kind of nail decals,
like nail stickers,
and they're all themed around
different trans issues,
like there's a Pride set,
and there's a trans icon set.
And basically yeah they
just raise awareness
and also funds around that issue,
and then they go back
into Nail Transphobia,
'cause obviously I don't get any funding.
This is just my full time job.
So I do that.
Yeah, it's like the one I
launched, it's the lobster ones--
- Oh, I love that, that's the one I got!
I actually think as well,
when it comes to activism,
especially for millennials
or the younger demographic,
I think the lowest form of activism,
or anything they can do,
is post it on Instagram.
- Exactly, yeah it's so easy,
and they can have an effect.
- Yeah, exactly it has a massive effect,
and I think what's beautiful with you
is that you actually encourage
the Nails Transphobia selfies
where you take a selfie,
with the middle finger up.
- I saw your one!
- I did one!
- Thank you, babes.
- Anytime!
- You're my most famous one.
- No, stop!
A little lobster on my middle
finger, I was lovin' it.
But I think it also galvanizes a community
and empowers people to do
something through social media.
- Galvanizes.
- I know,
I learned that word like a month ago.
- There's honestly so much
power to social media,
it gets looked at like it's
frivolous and not real,
but it's like no we're living
in a social media world.
Everyone is constantly
checking their phones.
- Everyone's constantly on the phone.
- It's quite like elitist and a bit bougie
to be like thinking that
that sort of activism
doesn't mean anything.
I don't consider myself
an online activist,
'cause I do physical events.
But it's really silly to
think that there's not
an effect from posting stuff.
- Oh, totally, there is.
Especially 'cause people
really connect with people.
I mean we've only just met today,
but I've been obsessed with you for ages.
I've been fangirling over you CC.
- I've been fangirling over you.
(Dominic laughs)
- So what is it like
being, and this question,
especially during Pride month,
I'm sure has a variety of answers.
What is it like being a
transwoman in London in 2019?
- That's a very hard question,
'cause there's like--
- I don't think there's
a full answer for it,
'cause I feel like there's a lot.
- There's harder places to be
a transwoman, but it's hard.
But it's hard to be a transperson anyway.
In London it's considered one
of probably the best places
to be a transperson, 'cause it's obviously
a very cosmopolitan city,
it's very much cultural.
So there's all types of people.
I always hear this line of
"You can be anyone you want in London,
"you can be who you want,
you can dress how you want."
You can't.
Like, you can, but I think it's--
- To an extent. (laughs)
- Yeah, it's really not.
Just even like, it's not
even about trans stuff,
just being like LGBT
or being anything slightly
different, it's scary.
You saw the attack recently,
the lesbians on the bus.
And that's in Pride
season, in 2019, in London.
And done by young people,
'cause it also gets put like,
"Oh, the next generation
is so progressive!"
They're not. (chuckles)
- Yeah because some of them--
- They're more progessive than the last,
but it was boys of 15 to 18
who attacked those girls.
And that's the boys that
normally give me crap as well.
So I think it's not as easy
as people would think it is.
It's hard, like I said, I was
getting attacked constantly.
Verbally, physically, sexually.
So yeah, I don't wanna
kind of rush it over as
"Oh, it's like amazing,
you can be who you want."
You can, I feel very lucky that I do.
I was just coming back from holiday,
and then I came back
to London, I was like,
"Oh it's so nice to be in the city
"where there's so many
different types of people."
And just no one looks, well,
people do look at you sometimes
but you can kinda just blend in,
because everyone's different
so you don't stick,
but I was sticking out like a sore thumb.
Everywhere I went, everyone was tanned
and I'm very pale, and I--
- I bet they loved you in Canton.
When I went to Spain, I looked
like toothpicks on the beach
I was so white, I was like. (laughs)
Oh, fuck, I didn't get any tan.
- Yeah, it's a look.
But yeah, no I wouldn't
wanna live anywhere else.
So I think there's a lot of improvement
that needs to be done in London,
but it could be worse.
- For that younger generation
that we spoke about
where some of them are still
sort of being conditioned,
'cause I always believe
behavior breeds behavior.
So some of them will
treat people a certain way
or they'll read an article,
or maybe parents could say something,
or anything like that.
For you, what do you think the
young people could do more?
Say they wanna get involved,
and maybe they don't
use Instagram that much,
what could they do?
Could they come to Trans Pride?
Could they come to any of
your pop-ups, go to a talk?
- I mean, come to one of
my pop-ups, obviously.
- Always goes to pop-ups!
- I think the most powerful
thing is conversation,
and that's what this is today,
we're just having a
conversation with a transperson.
It could be you as a not transperson,
or not gay person, having that chat
with a family member or friend
and helping to educate
them in a really nice way.
It's not about sitting them down
and giving them a slideshow
presentation of like,
"This is gay, this is trans--"
- This is my PowerPoint,
number one. (laughs)
- Welcome to my TedTalk.
No, it's just about helping
people to understand
through conversation, 'cause
that's what Nail Transphobia's
all about, it's just
speaking and humanizing.
Not normalizing it, humanizing it.
Because you have to be normal
to be not cured and be accepted.
- Exactly, exactly.
- So that's what it's about for me,
the power of conversation.
- What is the most, so when
you've been doing nails,
'cause I'm sure you've come
across so many different
people from walks of life
with many different stories.
You've probably come through people
who follow you on Instagram,
you've probably come across
the celebrities, obviously.
You probably come across people
that are flirting with you.
You've obviously come across me,
the Jay MacDonald of Bolton.
- Sadly.
(Dominic laughs)
- What is the most empowering LGBTQ+ story
you've heard off someone,
whether they're an ally
talking about a relative,
or a friend, or they're a member
of the community themselves
have you heard a really
empowering story about that?
Or something that moved you,
or you felt a connection about?
- So most of my job,
actually, is public speaking.
So I'd also write, ding! in my book.
- Oh wait, and what's
your book called again?
- Oh, it's, oh how did
this get here? (laughs)
it's called To My Trans Sisters.
Available on all good bookshelves.
- (laughs) Yeah, online retailers.
- So most of my job is
writing and public speaking.
And so I get brought into places a lot
to do talks about trans stuff
and about my campaign and about my book
and I got brought into this place
of young disadvantaged teens.
And I was a disadvantaged teen once,
I'm from a council
estate in Ladbroke Grove
which is in West London.
So I was really down for it.
And basically, it was right
at the start of my campaign,
and I went in to talk to
these young girls on a Sis day
and when I came in, they were
all slouched in their chairs,
all on their phones, not caring.
And I was also like--
- Was that dangerous minds?
- I was like, "I'm gonna need
security to get out of here,"
I was like, "These girls are
not featuring me, honey."
'Cause they had never
seen a transperson before,
and they were like, most of them haven't.
- Was that quite scary for you?
- Yes!
Because obviously, I've
always been bullied.
Well not obviously, but I
have always been bullied.
I started getting called
girl, in a bad way,
when I was like seven.
And that was in my estate,
and that was from the girls
and the boys and stuff.
It's funny now 'cause those same people
will be the same people calling me a man.
It's like, well I am a girl now.
But now they're like, "No, you're a man."
So I can't make them happy.
But the point is, so I came
in, I was a bit scared,
I was like, "Oh, God,
these girls are really,
"they're not featuring me."
And then, it was funny 'cause,
so I gave my talk, and
then I started seeing them
do a little shift, and at the end of it,
a girl came up to me
and she was like, the gobbiest girl there,
and so I was--
- Oh, shit, did you have
your keys in your hand like?
- She was the one I was most
scared of, and I was a bit.
So when I was talking, I
could see she was just like,
start throwing trash, wasn't listening.
And then when she came
up to me she was like,
"Just wanna say you really
helped me understand
"that whole trans thing,
"you've really changed my mind about it."
and she was like, "I've got a gay friend,
"it just really helped me understand."
And I'm like, "Oh my God."
- That's so amazing!
- And she gave me a hug,
and we walked back to the train station.
- You walked back to the
train station together?
- Yeah, she walked back with me,
and we just had like a talk and a hug
and I cried on the train home.
It was an empty train, I'm not a weirdo.
But oh my God, I was just like--
- You can do it in public,
I did it on Valentine's day.
No I'm joking. (laughs)
I didn't really, I was
just dressing up the drama.
That's amazing, though.
- Yeah, it just was like
this is why I do what I do.
Even if I just changed one mind,
but I've changed a lot of minds,
but the point is--
- But if she the gobbiest
one, she's got the influence
to be like, "Listen up girls, right?"
- Yeah, but also, ripples make waves.
You change one person's mind,
it's like I said, the
power of conversation,
they'll speak to other people.
If she's with her boyfriend and he's like,
"Oh, that's a tranny."
when they're on the
bus, she might be like,
"Don't say it."
or if she sees one of her
friends post a Facebook status,
she might say, "This isn't cool, babe."
or even, she's gonna have
kids one day probably,
she'll raise them to be decent people,
who aren't gonna bash transpeople.
- You've completely helped do that,
you've changed someone
viewpoint and I think that's,
that's a really powerful
position to be in.
And it's probably quite overwhelming,
but it's also like you genuinely are,
through what you're doing,
changing so many people's lives.
You're changing me and my nails right now.
- I cannot help that I'm right.
- Yeah!
Put it on a banner or get it on a plate.
Mental health struggles
are something a lot
of the LGBTQ+ community,
I mean everybody does their mental health,
but I think in our community,
mental health also has--
- Oh of course.
- It's obviously, it's rife.
Because so many people are
dealing with identity issues
or sexuality or coming out, or gender.
- And also the way we're
treated for being LGBT,
the problem's not coming
from within the house,
it's because of how we're treated.
It's being chucked out by family,
not finding love, being
just abused in the street.
So it's not surprising
that we have mental health,
we don't have mental health issues
because we're gay or trans,
we have mental health issues
because of how we're treated
for being gay or trans.
- I think, what did you,
'cause obviously with your
social media presence,
you've got a lot of followers.
And you openly share
messages you get off people,
whether they're being complimentary
or they're saying stupid shit. (laughs)
What is your sort of self
care rituals in that,
in terms of, 'cause I think,
social media's so rife
with so many different people now,
and like we've just
said, everyone uses it.
What is your, have you
got three things you do
to kind of process that?
'Cause I know with mine,
I have people sending me
a tiny bit of homophobic abuse
about the book and stuff like that.
But I have some people tell me
really beautiful, empowering stories.
One lady said she bought Free To Be Me
for her trans son who's male and 14,
and he's beginning transitioning,
and she was like, "He was
such a ball of anxiety,
"and your book's opened up
a conversation to have."
- Oh my God, your book
would've helped me so much.
- Thank you, it helped me!
I had lots of mental health issues.
I was depressed, I was
miserable, I was so lonely,
and I think I want it to
help as many people as I can.
But also straight away, I was like,
"Oh my God, thank you so much.
"Please follow Charlie Craggs." (laughs)
Because I just think you're such--
- What's his name?
'Cause maybe I follow him back.
- I don't know the name.
I said, "Can I repost it anonymously?"
and she was like, "Of course you can."
but I'll show you the
message, it was so lovely.
But yeah, what would you say in terms of
when you've got, say it's
like half six in the morning,
you've just woken up and
you've just got off a flight
and it's late at night, and
you get a DM off of someone
giving you shit.
But what are your self care tips?
Do you turn your phone
off for a few hours?
Do you exercise?
Do you just carry on doing nails?
Have you got anything
that helps you process?
- I just delete.
Like I'm sorry, I'm not gonna engage.
I don't.
People who are coming to you,
whether that's in real life,
or in your DMs, to say
something rude to you,
are looking for an argument.
I'm feisty, and I'm facety,
and I'm someone who does
agree in arguing back,
but not with someone who
is looking for an argument.
'Cause it's like what mums say,
but you're giving them what they want.
And when my mum would say
that, I'm like, "Ugh."
'Cause I wanna stand up for myself,
but with someone like that I don't.
Because I'm like that's
literally what they want,
they want to have.
And I used to do it, and I remember,
when I was on this series
thing for Huffington Post,
so I videoed on that every day,
and every day the
comments under my episodes
would be so, like no one
else would get bad comments,
but every day I'd get
really rude comments.
And I'd argue with them,
in the comments section,
with the people for ages,
because I'd be like,
"Why are you being so rude?"
And I'd argue, and then I would like,
so then that argument would finish,
and I'm sure they'd go off
and probably watch Coronation Street,
have their dinner and go to bed
and not think about it twice.
And I would be like,
my day would be ruined
and I'd be unable to
sleep, and I'd be so angry
'cause I've got all
this passion and emotion
and adrenaline because
I'm talking about my life
and something that affects me.
And they've gone away and
not thought about it twice,
but they've kicked off
this massive argument.
- That they're happy to kick off.
- So don't give them the argument.
Like if someone's rude
to you in the street,
or if someone touches you,
that's a bit different.
But just online, don't engage with it,
'cause they've come to you
looking for an argument.
And if you give it to them,
they're getting what they want.
Just delete them, block them.
They'll be so much more angry
if you don't give them it.
- Exactly, I think it's
a much better approach,
because I had someone sort
of try me the other week,
in like, what do you call it?
It's the general inbox now,
isn't it, on Instagram?
- Yeah, yeah.
- Like the request bit.
And they were like, sort of like,
"Faggot, gay boy" all that stuff.
So I just ignored it, and
then I got another message,
I'd not clicked delete or ignore,
I'd just like didn't read it, left it.
Then they sent another one going,
"What your book's doing is disgusting,
"and it's very anti this,
and you shouldn't--"
- What you're doing is disgusting!
You're sending someone hate.
- But I ignored that as well.
And then a day later put,
"You know, I actually think
"you're a really nice
person and I'm sorry."
And I ignored that as well.
- Good, yeah.
- And then she put the C word!
And I was like, "Calm down, Carol!"
No one needs that on a Wednesday!
Maybe a Friday at 2 am
in the kabob shop again,
but on a Wednesday, at
past 10 in the morning.
- Yeah I get that as well.
- It's just waste, so I
just delete it all anyway.
But I was like, "What the hell?"
Just the process of
thinking of this person,
and they're probably at
work somewhere sending these
messages to somebody.
- Well if they are,
find out where they work
and send it to their boss
and see what their boss has to say,
that's what I say.
I'm all shook.
- (laughs) Charlie's
like, "Name and shade!"
- I am!
I did an event recently at,
a Nail Transphobia event at a business,
I'm not gonna say the
name of the business,
and I did a talk for my pop-up
and they were asking question and answer.
And then someone in the audience actually,
a straight guy, was like, "Well
actually we're really good
"with LGBT here, we're a media agency
"so you don't have to worry
about this sort of thing."
And I was just like, "Hm,
don't get complacent,
"just 'cause it's a
media agency in London,
"don't think that they're
still not homophobic."
It's like saying, "'Cause we
have Barack Obama as President
"there's no racism," or
"'cause we have Theresa May
"as Prime Minister, there's no sexism."
It's like, just 'cause you
have those, yeah right.
And then I was right,
because during my session,
so these guys were checking me out.
As they would.
- Yeah they would!
- Yeah, but then one of
the guys who had been,
heard about my talk was
like, "That's a man,
"don't talk to her, don't talk to her."
and told the other guys not to
come to me 'cause I'm a man.
And it's like, so I was
right it just shows you.
But my point, the reason
I'm saying this though
is 'cause that I got in touch with HR!
- Yeah you did!
- And I'm gonna get ya!
(laughs) I was like, I'm not taking this!
So I took his picture slyly, I was like,
"I'm not gonna argue with
you, I'm just going to HR."
Because if you argue, as a
gay person or a transperson,
there's so much hate and you cannot argue
with every single person who's
gonna throw hate your way.
It will drain you, it will
literally make you ill
because you'll be constantly arguing.
If I argued with every person
who stared at me on the tube,
I would literally be in
fights all day every day.
What you do is take it and
tell the person above them,
tell them off, or go to TFL police,
I don't know go to, you can go to the HR.
If you're in school, go
to your Head Teacher.
- Because also that just isn't
a way to treat anyone that.
Even just going around using
derogative terms like that.
- No!
But it's also actually
illegal in the place of work.
- But also the fact that
you were basically told
this is a safe place,
come here and speak for us.
- For Trans Awareness
Day or whatever it was.
- And that this is a safe place,
but then you got members
of staff doing that.
You don't want that.
So my final question is,
my book Free To Be Me,
an LGBTQ+ journal of self love, Pride--
- [Charlie] How did that get there?
- and finding your inner rainbow. (hums)
For me, Free To Be Me, the title of it,
I wanted a self affirmation for the book.
So it wanted it to be
something a reader could look
and go "I'm free to be me."
That is what I wanted.
What would you say in
your life is your motto
or self affirmation you say to yourself
that you always go back to?
No matter what happens, you'll say it?
- I always say, 'cause I
have a lot of hard days,
I have struggles with mental health
and also just being a transwoman is hard.
- And you're very open about it,
which is is a massive step to do as well.
I think that's very powerful
that you're doing that as well,
by the way.
- Thank you, babes.
The thing I always say to myself
when I'm having a hard day
is that you might feel like,
especially if it's transition,
you just feel like you're so far,
like I feel like I've been
transitioning for years,
and I feel so far from where I wanna be.
And I always say you might
feel a million miles away
from where you wanna be, but
think of the million miles
you've walked to get where you are now.
You've come so far, and this
is the same for any gay person
or lesbian person or bi
person or queer person,
or whatever, you might
feel like you're not happy
or you're not at where you wanna be yet,
or you're just not there yet,
but think how far you've walked.
Wherever you've been bullied in school,
wherever you've gone through a transition,
wherever you've come out,
think how far you've come,
give yourself some credit
and love yourself.
Yeah, so that's what I, I'm
just gonna keep going, but yeah.
- And we've both come really far!
We have!
- A long way from Bolton, aren't we babe?
- We are!
(Charlie laughs)
- We're at Penguin, yes!
(high fives)
- Thank you so much for today.
- So lovely to see you, though.
- I told you, but let's do this.
(Dominic and Charlie shout)
Thanks for watching, everybody
and if you want to click
the link in the description,
you can find out more about Free To Be Me
and the Penguin Pride Book Club.
And also you can subscribe
to get some more book-y fun videos.
(upbeat music)
