Joe Rogan with Sam Harris and Dan Harris talk about psychedelics and meditation
but it is and somewhat and in some ways
headspace talking about mindsets and
talking about like we've brought this up
but really haven't delved into it much
at all about meditation and about how
much it's affected you and how it got
you back on track and I know that you're
a big proponent of it and I am as well
although I think I'd probably do it
differently than you guys do but I'd
love to hear how you do it I use an
isolation tank no really like a sensory
deprivation - yeah yeah and I do a lot
of yoga those are those are two big ones
for me you know I think those alone have
straightened out my brain in a great way
yoga in particular yoga because it's
it's not Yoga forces you to do it you
know like if you're either doing it or
you're not doing it there's no room for
distraction you know you're you're
essentially forced to deal with what
these poses require of you and I think
that in in doing so and having a
singular focus of trying to maintain
your balance and stretch and extend and
do all these different things while you
do then concentrating almost entirely on
your breath which is a big factor in
yoga that it's a it has remarkable brain
scrubbing attributes yeah I I would say
and I don't know much before I say this
let me just ask what are you doing in
the isolation tank like what are you in
your mind a lot blue you know do you use
it for a bunch of different in a bunch
of different ways I don't use it as much
as I should honestly but I concentrate
on sometimes I go in there with an idea
like I'll concentrate on material like
that I'm working on or maybe jujitsu
techniques and I'm having problems with
or some other things I'm dealing with
you know any any sort of issues that I
have sometimes I do that sometimes it
just go in there and chill out and relax
and breathe and concentrate there's a
lot of physical things that happen
inside the tank there's the amount of
magnesium that's in the water because
it's epsom salts it's really good for
you physically it's very good for the
muscles it loosens you up and relaxes
you and that eliminates a lot of stress
and that physical elimination of stress
allows the brain to function with just
less pressure it allows you to relax
puts things in perspective better and it
also it gives you this environment
that's not available anywhere else in
the planet this weightless floating yeah
disconnected from your body environment
well you're you don't hear anything you
don't see anything you know feeling
thing you feel like you're weightless
you you you have this sensation of
flying because you're totally weightless
weightless in the dark you open your
eyes you don't see anything you close
your eyes it's exactly the same the
water is the same temperatures your skin
so you don't feel the water and you're
floating I'll say this I'm not sure this
is gonna go down I actually don't have
any questions about the benefits of
being in an isolation tank even though I
don't know too much about it and I also
am I think Yoga is great although I
don't do much of it myself I I think
though that there may actually be a
difference between those two activities
and meditation mmm because there's a
kind of this is a highfalutin term
metacognition serves knowing what you
know or knowing that you're thinking
that happens in the kind of mindfulness
meditation of which Sam and I are
proponents proponents that I think is a
different thing where you're seeing and
I'll just try to put this in English
when you're meditating the way we do
you're seeing how crazy you are you're
seeing your fucking nuts and that
actually has a real value a systematic
collision with the asshole in your head
has a real value because when the
asshole offers you up a shitty
suggestion in the rest of your life
which is basically its job like oh yeah
you should eat the 17th cookie or say
the thing that's gonna ruin the next 48
hours your marriage or whatever you're
better able to resist it so what like
what do you do so I mean the basic steps
of mindfulness meditation are to sit
most people close their eyes
you bring your full attention to the
feeling of your breath just the you're
not thinking about your breath you're
just feeling the raw data of the
physical sensations and then the third
step is the biggie which is as soon as
you try to do this your mind is gonna go
bonkers you're gonna start thinking
about you know what's for lunch do an
eight a haircut where the gerbils run
wild whatever blah blah blah you're just
gonna notice oh my mind is going crazy
right now but that noticing is the key
moment is the fact that
victory it's interesting because this is
when most people think they've failed
that the Godot I can't meditate because
I can't clear my mind this is the the
biggest misconception about meditation
you do not need to clear your mind
that's impossible unless you're
enlightened or dead the whole goal is
just to notice when you become
distracted and start again you return
your attention to your breath hmm and
you just do that a million times and
every time you catch yourself wondering
and go back to your breath it's a bicep
curl for your brain
it changes your brain and that over time
creates the kind of metacognition I was
discussing before where you see that
you're a homo sapien sapien in other
words you're oh that's how we're
classified as a species were the one who
thinks and knows he or she thinks and
that just that knowing that you have
this voice in your head as Sam likes to
joke he feels like when he thinks about
the voice in his head he feels like he's
been hijacked by the most boring person
alive just says the same shit over and
over a joke that I see all the time yeah
that that is enormous ly powerful
because then you are not held hostage by
this voice a similar thing happens in
the tank I do
do a form of meditation the tank
sometimes when I go in there with
without an idea like if I'm not working
on material or anything else where I
just concentrating on my breath in
through the nose out through the mouth
and I just literally concentrate on the
breath and the same thing happened
that's meditation yeah it's it's not
similar it's the exact same thing the
difference is in the tank after a while
after about 20 minutes or so that breaks
loose too psychedelic states wow you
ever combined the tank with psychedelics
yes alters day so yeah yeah yeah yeah
yeah trip what LSD or mushrooms
mushrooms but the big one is edible pot
edible pot seems to be as strong as
anything in there huh
I got enough pot where I'm convinced I'm
gonna die and then I climb in there and
right every time I do it I go don't do
that again
so cuz I just get out so terrified
what's your motivation when you're
eating the pot and climbing into the
tanks we'll see what happens okay yeah
just be scared be terrified is yeah
because nothing ever happens
you never die but god damn you just
convinced that the universe is imploding
around you and that it so it usually has
the character of fear being a part of it
but some it's also not embracing the
fear not letting the fear run rampant
and just sort of relaxing and giving in
to the vulnerability you're the finite
nature of your existence and just
breathing and concentrating and letting
letting the dance take place because
some there's some sort of a weird that
one of the things that there's a big
misconception about when it comes to
edible pot is it edible pot is like
smoking pot it's an entirely different
process physiologically your liver the
time course is very different too and we
can stay stoned for three days yeah you
can you could fuck up and eat too many
brownies and you're be gone for a long
time that sounds miserable it is but
it's not because you get something out
of it when it's over the the process is
excruciating but when you come out of it
you just feel so happy feel so happy
it's over yeah it's like big joke about
the dude is banging his head up against
the wall and somebody says while you're
doing that he says because it feels so
good when I stop mm-hmm in a way but
there's no physical damage banging your
head up against the wall you're gonna
hurt yourself this is true yeah I don't
know I think there seems like there may
be easier ways to get to the same wisdom
maybe but I think there's also
creativity that gets inspired by the
edible pot something called eleven
hydroxy metabolite that your body
produces it's it's so different than
most people when they eat pot they think
they've been dosed like anybody who's
smoked pot before and then you give them
a brownie they think oh my god there's
something in that and they're convinced
because reality itself just seems like
it just dissolves and especially inside
the tank there's something about the
tank environment that produces in the
absence of any external stimuli your
brain becomes sort of supercharged
because what you're trying to do when
you're just sitting down and
concentrating and relaxing is you're
trying to focus on your thoughts but
you're still aware of your body you're
still aware of your elbows touching this
desk your butt touching the chair
there's all these different factors that
are that are there's stimuli that's
coming into your senses whereas in the
tank there's no
virtually it's almost completely
eliminated there's some but you can you
can you can phase that stuff out like
you could still feel the water a little
bit if you think about it you could
still you sometimes you bump into the
wall and you have to like Center
yourself and you have to look relaxed
again and make sure you're not moving so
you don't touch things which can kind of
dissolve the experience that their
experiences in meditation where you have
that same experience where you lose your
sense of the body but it that usually
comes with more concentration and you
have to be very concentrated on them I
feel like you would have that experience
and it would be even more intense if you
did the exact same thing you do outside
the tank in the tank I don't think you
need any psychedelics in the tank oh
it's one thing that I tell people when
they ask me shouldn't get high before I
do it and like no just do it just do it
if you decide after a while have you
done it three or four times you're like
I wonder what it's like if I just take a
little bit of a hit of pot and see where
it takes me there's nothing wrong with
that I'm gonna hurt you you know if
you're a type of person enjoys marijuana
or whatever but the tank alone by itself
just the absence of sensory input your
brain goes to a very very different
place and as long as you can relax as
long as you don't think of too much
about the fact that you're in the tank
just concentrate entirely on your
thoughts entirely on your breath and
again let all those crazy like where the
hamsters live like all that shit let all
that stuff run wild through your
mountain but I feel like in the tank at
least that gets to a certain spot and it
stops existing and then the psychedelic
state takes over yeah well it depends on
what the goal is I think there can be
many different goals of meditation or in
a quasi spiritual practice and they're
not there they're distinct so I mean the
the center of the bullseye for me is not
suffering unnecessarily right so and so
one thing that that mindfulness gives
you is I mean so it's potential with
every experience you can have and
there's nothing in your experience that
isn't an appropriate object of
meditation you just most people start
with the breath because it's just a very
convenient thing to start with but once
you know how to do this
particular practice you're just your
goal is to just be clearly aware of
whatever your experience is in each
moment so it's emotions arise thoughts
arise sounds come in your your attention
is wide open to whatever your experience
is so it's not like so nothing in
principle is a distraction I mean you
could be meditating right next to a
construction site and the sound of the
hammers is just as good an object of
meditation as the breath or anything
else so there's nothing everything is
included but the the the super power
you're after which you actually can
acquire through this practice is to
realize that virtually all of your of
your psychological suffering and
actually arguably virtually all of your
your physical suffering I mean that or
the the difference between physical pain
and suffering which even those who are
not quite the same thing is a matter of
being a lost in thought it's a matter of
thinking without knowing that your
thinking and what and what mindfulness
does and really any technique of
meditation ultimately should do is teach
you to break the spell of being lost in
thought and to notice a thought as a
thought I mean the huge difference is
until you learn how to meditate or do
something like meditation
you're just helplessly thinking every
moment of your life you're having a
conversation with yourself you're having
content whether it's the imagistic or
linguistic pour forth into consciousness
every moment and so incessantly that you
don't even notice it's just white noise
and not only does it completely color
your experience moment to moment so like
if you're if they're angry thoughts
you're angry if they're depressed
thoughts you're depressed they're sad
that you're sad so you become your
thoughts but you also feel you feel you
feel identified you feel that you are
the thinker of your thoughts you feel
like a self and it's a completely
structured by this flow of mentation
every moment and it produces everything
you do it produces all of your
intentions and your goals and your
actions and he said this about me and
now I'm
say this oh it's like it's everything
coming out of you is born of this the
same process and meditation is a way of
recognizing that consciousness and then
what you are subjectively is they this
prior condition of just the awareness in
which everything is showing up sound
sensations and thoughts and thoughts can
become just other objects of
consciousness and so I mean to take even
a very basic example of the difference
between pain and suffering you can feel
very strong physical pain I mean
unpleasant pain and just be aware of it
in that like the sense that it's
unbearable is virtually always untrue
because you in that moment you've
already borne it right the feeling that
something is unbearable is really the
fear of having to experience it in the
next moment in the future right cuz
you're always like if some move someone
drives a nail into your knee right you
might well that's that sounds like it's
unbearable but every moment you are
feeling it you're bearing it right it's
like it's it's what you're what you're
thinking about is the last moment and
the next moment and you're thinking
about how much you know when am I gonna
get some relief and you know what's the
cure and how badly is my knee injured
and you know it's like you're worried
about the future continuously and you're
not noticing the automaticity of thought
that is that is amplifying the the the
the the negative negativity of the
experience in that moment and we all
know that you can have super intense
sensation which is either either
Pleasant or unpleasant depending on the
on the conceptual frame you've put
around it so for instance if you had
this you know massive sense of soreness
in your shoulder that you would
experience it very differently if it was
a the result of you dead lifting more
than you ever had in your life and you
were proud of it right be probably
cancer and you're waiting for your you
know the the biopsy results and and you
know you're worried about the this is
the thing that the thing that's going to
kill you
or you're getting raw you know they're
like some deep tissue massage and it
hurts like hell but you actually totally
understand the source of the pain then
you know it's going to be gone the
moment the guy pulls his elbow back
right so it could be the exact same
sensation each one of those but the
conceptual frame you you have around it
totally dictates the level of
psychological suffering and or the
convicted the total absence of
psychological suffering
