IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE ABANDONED.
LIZ: THANKS TO AMERICA'S
CAPITALIST SYSTEM AND YEARS OF
HARD WORK, OUR NEXT GUEST
REACHED BILLIONAIRE STATUS AND
IS NOW SOUNDING A LOT LIKE
SOMEONE WHO IS CLOSE TO RUNNING
FOR PRESIDENT, IN PART BECAUSE
HE SAYS NEITHER PARTY IS GETTING
IT RIGHT.
HE IS THE FORMER STARBUCKS
CHAIRMAN AND CEO, HOWARD
SCHULTZ, HERE LIVE IN A BUSINESS
NETWORK EXCLUSIVE.
GREAT TO HAVE YOU HERE.
>> GREAT TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
LIZ: BERNIE SANDERS IS FLOGGING
IT, RAY DALIO IS SAYING IT NEEDS
A FACELIFT OF SOME SORT.
HOW DO YOU SEE CAPITALISM RIGHT
NOW?
>> FIRST OFF, CAPITALISM HAS
BEEN THE ENGINE OF ECONOMIC
GROWTH FOR AMERICA, IT IS
CLEARLY THE SIGNATURE POINT OF
OUR FREE ENTERPRISE SYSTEM BUT
IF YOU LOOK AT STARBUCKS WHERE I
HAVE BEEN FOR THE LAST 40 YEARS,
WHAT HAS CAPITALISM BEEN?
THE ABILITY TO CREATE THE
FRAGILE BALANCE BETWEEN PROFIT
AND SOCIAL CONSCIENCE.
FREE COLLEGE FOR EVERYONE,
OWNERSHIP FOR EVERYONE AND
COMPREHENSIVE HEALTH INSURANCE
FOR EVERY EMPLOYEE AND OUR STOCK
PRICE IS UP 26,000%.
IN ADDITION TO THAT, ALL THESE
POLITICIANS WHO ARE CRYING ABOUT
CAPITALISM, HAVE THEY EVER MADE
A PAYROLL?
HAVE THEY EVER WORKED IN A
BUSINESS?
WHAT HAVE THEY DONE OTHER THAN
CRITICIZE THE SYSTEM?
ALSO, THESE ARE LIFELONG
DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE BEEN IN
POWER.
WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN DOING ABOUT
HEALTH CARE?
WHAT HAVE THEY BEEN DOING ABOUT
THE $22 TRILLION DEBT?
WHERE HAVE THEY BEEN?
LIZ: THAT BECOMES THE QUESTION,
BUT WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT
CAPITALISM, A REFUGEE WENT TO
CEO OF YOUNG AND RUBICAM, HE
SAID CAPITALISM ISN'T DEAD, IT'S
SLOWLY COMMITTING SUICIDE
BECAUSE IT WENT FROM THIS FREE
MARKET NO GOVERNMENT
INTERVENTION FOR BOTH
SHAREHOLDERS AND EMPLOYEES TO
NOW SORT OF THE SHORT-TERMISM
WHERE THE SHAREHOLDERS REALLY
KIND OF ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO
BENEFIT.
I GUESS THE QUESTION BECOMES
WHEN YOU LOOK AT SOMEBODY LIKE
SAY PRESIDENT TRUMP WHO IS A
BUSINESSMAN LIKE YOURSELF --
>> IS HE REALLY A BUSINESSMAN?
LIZ: WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
>> WELL, I THINK HE HAS NOT HAD
A FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY HIS
WHOLE LIFE.
HE'S BEEN RESPONSIBLE AS A
PRIVATE COMPANY, NO
SHAREHOLDERS, NO BOARD, NO
TRANSPARENCY, WE CAN'T SEE HIS
TAX RETURNS.
I DON'T KNOW.
REALLY.
LIZ: IN FACT, REGARDING THE TAX
RETURNS, I BELIEVE MICK MULVANEY
RECENTLY SAID IN THE LAST COUPLE
OF HOURS THAT NO ONE WILL EVER
SEE DONALD TRUMP'S TAX RETURNS.
>> YEAH.
LIZ: YOU HAVE SAID YOU WOULD PUT
YOURS FORTH.
>> 100%.
IN TALKING ABOUT CAPITALISM,
LEADERSHIP, WHAT WE ARE REALLY
TALKING ABOUT IS THE CHARACTER,
THE CULTURE, THE VALUES OF A
LEADER AND A COMPANY.
IN TERMS OF CAPITALISM, I THINK
WHAT RAY SAID LAST NIGHT IS, AND
I AGREE WITH HIM, WE DO HAVE A
SMALL CRISIS OF CAPITALISM, AND
WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS THAT THE
RULES OF ENGAGEMENT FOR A
COMPANY TODAY, GIVEN THE FACT
THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T SOLVE ALL
THESE PROBLEMS, BUSINESSES AND
BUSINESS LEADERS MUST DO MORE
FOR THEIR EMPLOYEES AND THE
COMMUNITIES THEY SERVE.
I BELIEVE THAT.
LIZ: YOU WANT TO RUN AS A
CENTRIST BECAUSE YOU FEEL THAT
AT LEAST BOTH SIDES, THE FAR
RIGHT, THE FAR LEFT, ARE NOT
DEALING WITH SOME OF THE BIG
PROBLEMS.
NOW, EVERYTHING FROM THE $22
TRILLION DEBT WHICH WHEN YOU
FIRST STARTED TALKING ABOUT IT A
YEAR AGO, WAS MORE LIKE BRUSHING
UP AGAINST $21 TRILLION.
WE CAN LOOK AT THE DEBT CLOCK.
IT'S A DISASTER.
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR PLAN IF YOU
WERE TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT TO
VAPORIZE THAT $22 TRILLION IN
DEBT, HOWARD?
WHAT'S YOUR PLAN?
HOW WOULD YOU DO THAT?
>> I WILL TELL YOU MY PLAN BUT
BEFORE I DO, LET'S ESTABLISH
BOTH PARTIES' IDEOLOGY AND
EXTREME POSITIONS ARE COMPLICIT
IN THE RECKLESS EXAMPLE OF A
LACK OF LEADERSHIP AND
RESPONSIBILITY.
THIS IS GOING TO FALL ON THE
CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN OF
THE FUTURE OF AMERICA.
NOW, WE HAVE TO LOOK AT
ENTITLEMENTS.
WE HAVE TO MEANS TEST --
LIZ: HOLD ON.
LOOK AT ENTITLEMENTS?
>> WE DO.
LIZ: TOUCH SOCIAL SECURITY,
TOUCH MEDICARE?
WOULD YOU?
WOULD YOU DHAU
WOULD YOU CUAU
WOULD YOU CUTU
WOULD YOU CUT THAT?
>> I WOULD HAVE A MEANS TEST.
THE WEALTHY NEED TO PAY MORE IN
TAXES.
THE CORPORATE TAX RATE NEEDS TO
GO UP WITH AN INCENTIVE TO GET
IT LOWER IF YOU DO THE RIGHT
THING FOR YOUR EMPLOYER
THING FOR YOUR EMPLOYEES AND
COMMUNITIES YOU SERVE.
LIZ: DEFINE WEALTHY.
>> WE CAN MEANS TEST WHAT THAT
MEANS.
I'M NOT HERE TO SAY EXACTLY --
LIZ: ONE MILLION, TEN MILLION?
>> AT LEAST A MILLION.
LIZ: BECAUSE IN NEW YORK --
>> BUT IT'S AT LEAST A MILLION.
LIZ: BELIEVE IT OR NOT, A
MILLION IS NOT A LOT.
>> BUT THE POINT HERE IS THAT
POLITICIANS FOR DECADES HAVE
REFUSED TO LOOK AT THIS ISSUE.
THIS HAS BEEN THE THIRD RAIL OF
POLITICS.
WHAT I'M SAYING AS A CENTRIST,
AS A COMMON SENSE PERSON WHO HAS
LED A GLOBAL ORGANIZATION, IT'S
TIME TO HAVE A SERIOUS
CONVERSATION, REDUCE THE DEBT,
FIX THE HEALTH CARE CRISIS, FIX
IMMIGRATION, REMOVE THE IDEOLOGY
AND GET THE RIGHT PEOPLE IN THE
ROOM TO SOLVE THESE PROBLEMS.
LIZ: AMERICA HAS THE GREATEST
INCOME INEQUALITY GAP NOW THAT
WE HAVE EVER HAD AND I BELIEVE
OF ANY DEVELOPED NATION.
SOME PEOPLE MIGHT ARGUE THAT LOW
INTEREST RATES, THAT THE FED HAS
HAD IN PLACE FOR MORE THAN A
DECADE NOW, HAVE CAUSED THAT,
PUSHING PEOPLE INTO STOCKS AND
STOCKS TEND TO FAVOR WEALTHIER
PEOPLE IN SOME CASES.
DO YOU THINK INTEREST RATES
RIGHT NOW AT 2.25% TO 2.5% ARE
TOO LOW, JUST RIGHT, OR NEED TO
BE RAISED?
>> I'M NOT AN ECONOMIST BUT I
WILL SAY THIS.
THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED
STATES SHOULD NOT HAVE THE FED
IN HIS POCKET.
THE FED AND THE SUPREME COURT
NEED TO BE ABOVE THE SYSTEM AND
SHOULD NOT HAVE ANY LINKAGE TO
EXECUTIVE POWER.
I THINK WHAT'S GOING ON RIGHT
NOW WITH THE FED AND THE
PRESIDENT'S INFLUENCE IS NOT
RIGHT FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
LIZ: PRESIDENT TRUMP HAS JUST
FLOATED HERMAN CAIN AS A
POSSIBLE NOMINEE FOR THE FEDERAL
RESERVE BOARD.
HERMAN CAIN OF COURSE RAN FOR
PRESIDENT.
HE HAD A CHAIN CALLED
GODFATHER'S PIZZA.
IS HE SOMEBODY YOU WOULD EVER
THINK OF IF YOU WERE IN CHARGE
TO NOMINATE FOR THE FEDERAL
RESERVE?
>> I DON'T KNOW HERMAN CAIN BUT
WHAT WE KNOW ARE PEOPLE THAT
HAVE SIGNIFICANT FINANCIAL
EXPERIENCE WHO CAN BE A
FIDUCIARY TO THE COUNTRY.
I DON'T KNOW IF HE HAS THAT
EXPERIENCE.
SEEMS LIKE A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE
QUESTIONING THAT.
LIZ: I NEED TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT
TAX REFORM.
THE "WALL STREET JOURNAL" HAS A
NEW POLL OUT TODAY THAT SAYS
PEOPLE AREN'T FEELING THE TAX
CUTS EVEN THOUGH THE GOP TAX
PLAN GAVE TWO-THIRDS OF
HOUSEHOLDS ALONG WITH CORPORATE
AMERICA A DECENT TAX CUT HERE.
CARRIED INTEREST IS SUDDENLY
BACK IN THE NEWS.
YOU HAVE BILL PASCRELL, ONE OF
TWO SENATORS WHO ARE COMING
FORTH WITH A NEW PLAN TO GET RID
OF THIS LOOPHOLE THAT OFTEN FOR
THOSE OF YOU WHO DON'T KNOW WHAT
IT IS, IT IS A LOOPHOLE THAT
ALLOWS VERY WEALTHY PRIVATE
EQUITY PEOPLE TO COUNT THEIR
INCOME AS TAXED AT A MUCH LOWER
RATE THAN THE REST OF US.
>> YEAH.
LIZ: THAT'S A LOOPHOLE YOU WOULD
WHAT?
CLOSE?
KEEP OPEN?
>> I WOULD CLOSE THAT LOOPHOLE.
I WOULD DO SOMETHING ELSE.
I WOULD LINK THE CAPITAL GAINS
TO ORDINARY INCOME.
SO THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY THERE
AS WELL.
BUT THE PRESIDENT HAD A MASSIVE
OPPORTUNITY FOR COMPREHENSIVE
TAX REFORM.
HE DID NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF
THAT.
HE HAD A MASSIVE OPPORTUNITY FOR
INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT.
DID NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT.
WHAT DID HE DO?
HE GAVE A 21% TAX RATE TO
CORPORATIONS WHO DID NOT NEED
IT, AND WHO GOT REWARDED?
LIZ: DON'T YOU THINK WE NEED IT
TO BE COMPETITIVE?
WE WERE THE HIGHEST AMONG
DEVELOPED NATIONS.
>> NOT AT 21%.
YOU COULD GO TO 25%, 26% WITH
THE INCENTIVE BUILT IN TO DO THE
RIGHT THING, TRAIN YOUR PEOPLE,
EDUCATE THEM, PROVIDE HEALTH
CARE, A NUMBER OF THINGS.
THIS GOES TO YOUR ORIGINAL
QUESTION ABOUT CAPITALISM.
PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO BE
CONCERNED ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT
BUSINESSES ARE DOING ENOUGH AND
SHAREHOLDERS ARE MAKING TOO MUCH
MONEY.
HOORP
HERE'S A FACT.
40% OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE
TODAY, 40% OF AMERICAN FAMILIES
DON'T HAVE $400 IN THE BANK FOR
A CRISIS.
THAT'S WHY THE ECONOMY IS
