- I am so happy to have you here.
- You have a fantastic new
podcast out called Science Rule!
- Yes.
- I wanna talk to you about
something close to my heart.
- Your buttons.
- It is my buttons, okay.
- Your wristwatch.
- I forget, you're a man
who notices everything.
You understand.
- Not everything,
but I saw the buttons on the
shirt, not that I'm stare,
I have tremendous respect
for you as a person,
but it's not really my thing.
- That's fair.
(laughter)
I think we would hit it off.
I wanna talk about space.
- That's my thing.
That is my thing.
- It's an exciting thing.
So, I did this whole
season of doing a show.
I go out into America.
I've covered a lot of
movements, a lot of actions,
and we hit a point where
we're like what is something
where I can drop any cynicism?
Because when you go out into th,
there's a lot of cynicism,
there's a lot of fighting.
- Oh sure there is.
Oh right.
(laughter)
- And, what I found was,
where I'm not cynical
and I still have this sense
of wonder is it's still based
in my childhood desire
to go to space (mumbles)
- To be an astronaut!
- To be an astronaut, and I
got to talk to a lot of people
about this, and the big questios
are we gonna go to Mars?
- That is a good question.
- What do you think?
Are we gonna go to Mars?
- Yeah!
So, we at the Planetary
Society, world's largest
independent space interest
organization, did a study.
We could get people orbiting Ma3
without increasing the NASA budt
if you just decided to do it,
and the best or cheapest way
to do it would be to have
what we call international coopn
where one country build this,
the other country builds,
or one agency builds this,
the other agency builds that,
and you could do it, but
it takes overcoming this
tremendous inertia in every
presidential administration.
See, what will you people lose ,
and the Apollo 11 film is
out, the new documentary--
- It's amazing.
- It's cool, it really is gorge.
I mean, it's amazing.
It's just beautiful.
- It looks like it was
filmed by Stanley Kubrick.
It's so gorgeous how it's--
- So, that's an interesting
thing, not changing the subject.
2001, if you're pickin'
science fiction movies,
came the closest anybody's ever,
but that aside, what people for,
reckoned in 2019 dollars,
the Apollo program cost
about 151 billion, with a B.
So, when you say we're gonna
increase the NASA budget
from 21 billion to 22.6
billion, that's good,
but it's not on the same
scale, and then, people say
well, we have all these launchpt
and all this infrastructure,
10 NASA centers
around the country, but
it's just not the same.
The scale of it, it's a factor
of six that we're missing.
- Should we invest that
much into the space program?
Is the idea of going to Mars,
do you think that would have
the benefits that say Apollo 11?
- Well, Apollo, everybody,
remember, the Apollo program
was the Cold War.
That's what motivated it.
You can say well, it's for
science, for exploration,
for humankind has the desire
to reach farther and deeper
into space and to know
the cosmos, which is true,
but it was to beat the
Rooskies, our, at that time,
our enemies (laughs) our enemy.
- Yeah, as opposed to our colla.
- Yes, yeah, election ballot co,
and so, the scale of it is
what I think a lot of people
lose sight of.
A 5% increase in the NASA budge,
and NASA's not the only game in.
By in town, I mean on Earth.
European Space Agency is quite .
Canadians have a space agency.
Vietnam has a space agency.
South Africa has a space agency
because everybody realizes
the value of weather prediction,
situational awareness,
A.K.A. spying, and communicatio,
where you can broadcast
or send information from
one side of your country
to the other so great value.
Space exploration's changed the,
and there are two questions,
Jordan, that we all ask!
- Give 'em to me.
- Where did we come from?
- [Jordan] I've asked it.
- Where did we come,
what the heck are we do?
And, then, are we alone?
Are we alone in the universe?
- Do you think we'd get
that if we go to Mars?
- Well, here's what is very rea.
Is Mars had something
alive, and it may still
because Mars is smaller than th.
So, out there in the icy
blackness of space, it cooled of
faster than the Earth,
about a billion years sooner
than the Earth.
You can get somethin'
done in a billion years
all I'm sayin', and it had
an atmosphere and an ocean
before the Earth.
Did life start on Mars
before it started on Earth?
Maybe, who knows?
And, so, there's a hypothesis,
which is fantastic,
that Mars was hit with
an impactor (slaps fist)
- Dinosaur, is that
like a raptor of sorts?
- Well, no, like an astroid.
- Oh, like Armageddon again.
Again, one of the most
scientifically accurate films
you're ever going to see.
- Yes,
and then, (whirring)
through a home in orbit,
these things came to Earth.
You know, you can buy Mars rocke
if you're motivated.
- They're actual Mars rocks?
- Yeah, they--
- Don't fall for this, Bill.
Those are--
- No no, so, you look at the con
and the shock pattern in the ro,
and then, the other thing, you o
Huntsville, Alabama,
crack it open in a vacuum,
and the little bubbles of atmos,
bubbles of gas come out that
match the martian atmosphere
so these are Mars rocks,
and there's an area,
I have not been, but in Antarct,
people call the budget space pre
'cause you're walkin'
along, dressed warmly,
and there are rocks on top of t.
Now, the ice is kilometers, mil.
The only way for the rocks
to get there is from space.
So, the Earth was hit with
several, I guess estimates vary,
100,000 tons of dust every
day of interstellar dust,
astroid bits, and so,
if life started on Mars,
are we descendants of
Martians is a cool question,
a fantastic question, so.
- That's a fun question.
- It really is.
So, we could send, now I'm
at the Planetary Society,
I took a class from Carl Sagan,
I understand that I was
brought up with this tradition,
but I would like us to
design robots, rovers,
perfectly tuned for looking
for Martian microbes,
and the Mars 2020 rover,
which doesn't have a whimsic
or charming, engaging name
yet has instruments on it
that will advance this a little,
but I'd like to have a focused .
The reason to send people is
first of all, it's just cool.
It's just inspirational.
The Soviet Union was
driving around on the moon,
trying to bring moon rocks
back before humans did,
but when you get people there,
that's when everybody goes wild,
and so, it's also
estimated, just technically,
that what our best rovers
or best science instruments,
robotic science instruments
on Mars can do in a week,
a human geologist could
do in about a minute
or certainly less than five min.
- Why is that?
Just because human instinct is w
what to look for essentially?
- Yeah, and actually
literally move quicker
and don't have this remote probm
of a seven minute radio delay.
So, you put in artificial intele
to have it drive around rocks a,
but looking for rocks,
and knockin' 'em open,
and finding out what's inside,
a human just has judgment.
So, it would just be
something else to find
a layer of fossilized bacteria
on Mars or Mars-crobes
as I like to call them,
and what if there's something
still alive under the sand?
Wherever there's dampness on Ea,
there is something alive.
People throw around numbers,
you know there's a million
viruses on your face? (laughs)
And, so--
- Those are the worst people by.
(laughter)
- Well, we have immune
systems for most of 'em
so it would really be
extraordinary, and I claim
it would change the course of h.
It would be like Copernicus shog
well, if you really are provingt
if you really wanna find where
Jupiter is in the night sky,
you oughta think of Jupiter
going around the sun,
not the other way around, and
oh no, we can't publish that.
We'd have to kill you, and then,
you know, I took this military ,
which they had for lookin'
at the guys on the other hill
before you shot your arrows at m
or whatever your Game of
Thrones thing you were doin',
but he took it and looked at th.
Hey, the moon's not really a
perfect circle, it's full of,
oh, you can't leave the house
for the rest of your life.
Okay, but it changed the world.
It changed the way everybody
thought about being alive,
and I claim that a
discovery of life on Mars,
it would just change the world.
The other logical places are
Europa, the moon of Jupiter
with twice as much ocean water
as Earth and then, Titan,
this moon of Saturn,
which has great promise.
It has geysers that squirt into.
And, so, this kind of
exploration is done for a song.
Planetary science at NASA
is $2,000,000 a year.
Two point something billion dol.
That's a lot of money, but
it's not that much money.
At European Space Agency,
it's a third of that
or a tenth of that.
It's still a huge amount of
money, but compared to what
the federal budget is or a
European, 16-country budget is,
it's nothin', and it could
change the course of history.
So, that's what we advocate
for at the Planetary Society.
- What do you think so
as, I'm somebody who's not
the largest fan of our commande.
- Really?
- Yeah.
- You know, I've heard you ment.
- He's done some things
that he might not be
the best president we've ever h.
Now--
- Really?
- I don't, it's a outlandish
opinion that a comedian has,
but I'm not a big Trump fan.
One thing he did say, which
was comical in its assertion,
but I was inspired by it, was
he talks about going to Mars
as a vanity project, and
he said he would throw
as much money as anybody
needed to get there
if we could get there
before the next election,
which is fast.
- So, he wanted to go to the mo.
- Wanted to go to the moon?
- Four and a half years.
- Yes.
- All right, and so, by the
way, out there in the world
of space explorers, there's
moon people and Mars people.
We must go to the moon to
learn to live in space.
We must, it's a proving
ground, and then other people,
you don't need to go to the moo.
Let's go to Mars.
We waste time at the moon.
Moon has a lot of gravity
so if you land on the moon,
you have to build a big rocket
to get back off the moon,
blah blah blah.
- Are those two separate camps?
- They really are, yeah.
Fist fights in the exploration .
(Jordan laughs)
But, going to the moon
in four and half years
sounds like a cool
thing, and it would mean
ignoring spending caps,
which Congress has been
more than willing to do.
So, okay, but this, they
just had a big announcement
of adding $1.6 billion to the N,
which is, that's good.
5%'s good.
At the Planetary Society
we've advocated for 5%
for a long time, but it's
not on the scale of Apollo,
and the other problem that
has to be solved, you guys,
so what, for political reasons,
the whole thing is based on
the space launch system.
The SLS!
Which is a rocket.
It's another name for a
big rocket being built
in Rocket City, Huntsville,
Alabama, and it's built there
'cause a lot of rockets were
built there over the years.
There's where Wernher von
Braun lived for a long time,
and meanwhile, you all,
everybody hears about SpaceX,
and Blue Origin, Jeff Bezos' co.
They're gonna do stuff on their,
but all of the capsules and
docking things, and hardware,
and this proposed lunar
gateway, and gateway is a
whimsical term for another
space craft that would be
in orbit around the moon the way
the International Space Stations
in orbit around the Earth.
These are all based on this
diameter, and this system,
and these electrical
connectors associated with
the Space Launch System.
So, you can't just go get hardw.
It's not like you go on the intt
and get another rocket
booster that happens to fit.
It's just not like that.
So, the political problems
are very difficult,
and, then, the money, and the ps
to get the 1.6 billion from Pel.
Okay.
(Jordan laughs)
See, the Pell Grant money is
set aside, some it's not spent,
but you guys, it's just,
as they say, bad optics.
- It's absurd idea to ask
for the amount of money
it would take to push
to a place like Mars.
Do you need somebody who
has absurd-like thinking,
like a Donald Trump or somebody-
- Or Elon Musk.
- Or an Elon Musk.
Do you have to be, do you
need somebody who's crazy
to set the sights that far?
- Or you need just the
Chinese Space Administration
to decide they're goin' to the .
- So, we just need competition.
- That might be, that's
what happened last time.
Everybody, just keep in mind
when you watch the movie,
it was the Cold War.
That's why all that stuff got d.
- So, we just need the
fact that China landed
on the far side of the moon,
the dark side of the moon--
- It's not really dark.
- It's not dark?
- Only, yeah, it's the far side.
- That's not, I listened
to a very specific
Led Zeppelin album, and--
- No no, I think it was Pink Fl.
- Armageddon, have you seen Arm?
- It was Pink Floyd, not Led Ze.
- I'm kind of a man who's
sticky about his facts,
and it was a Led Zeppelin album.
(laughter)
Yeah, Led Zeppelin album.
I'll be very clear that
there is a Dark Side--
- As sticky as you may be, you'g
to the wrong mirror.
- Yeah, the Dark of the Moon.
- So, the far side of the
moon is dark half the month.
- Right, that's the
first part of the album.
(laughter)
(Bill clicks tongue)
What are you think--
(Bill sings)
What do you think of Elon Musk?
What do you think of all
the private billionaires
trying to get there?
- I had lunch with Elon Musk.
I gave him a ride to the airpor.
He's not my best friend or anyt,
but he is a motivated guy.
- Wait, you gave him
a ride to the airport?
- Yeah yeah, no, I'm the head
of the Planetary Society.
I travel in this little world.
- You're a cool guy.
I'm not saying you don't
have the legitimacy to do it.
I'm saying as a man
who owns a car company.
- Well, this was before his car
company was especially huge.
- He's like I'm workin' on a ca.
Could you give me a ride?
- Yeah, that's how it went, man!
(laughter)
I took him from a restaurant
in Santa Monica, California
to LAX.
This was a long time ago,
but it's a true fact.
Not a false fact.
Not a (mumbles) fact.
- He seems like an inspiring gu.
- Big dreams.
- Oh man, he's a visionary.
- Yeah.
- Oh yeah, but he is odd.
His relationship to the
Securities and Exchange Commissn
is one I would not embrace.
(Jordan laughs)
- Did you give him much
advice on the financial end?
- No no no.
- No.
- But, I just wouldn't mess wit.
No need to mess with them.
- When you look at Blue
Origin, Richard Branson
is playing around in the
game, Elon Musk with SpaceX,
are any of those do you feel thp
to getting to a place like
getting back to the moon
or getting to Mars?
- Absolutely, oh yeah.
So, you guys, Falcon
rockets are fantastic.
The SpaceX rockets are fantasti.
So, we had an analysis
at the Planetary Society
that well, SpaceX couldn't
break even on this
reusable booster.
This is where the rocket
goes up and then lands again
either at Cape Canaveral on a pt
or on this drone ship, a motori.
Not a barge, it's a drone ship!
Okay, so, it's a big thing with.
So, in other words, you recover
most of the booster, most,
and we said well, he'd never
break even unless they got to
30 a year.
Well, they're kinda getting to ,
and it's just long-term
investment and that vision
is just really something.
So, at the Planetary,
just if I may remind you,
we're gonna be launching our
second solar sails spacecraft
no earlier than, that's NASA
talk, NET, no earlier than
the 22nd of June, Saturday,
the 22nd, come on down.
You can sit in the bleacher wit.
I know a guy.
You can get a seat.
- You can get me a seat?
- I can get you a seat, and
it really is spectacular.
It's amazing.
Just everything (imitates rocke)
Everything shakes, you're
hair shakes, your eyes shake,
and the thing goes up,
and it goes over the top,
as we say, it turns and goes in,
and then, these two
boosters come down and land
like hell, like science fiction.
It's just amazing, and so,
bear in mind, everybody,
that SpaceX is competing with N.
Not really.
NASA buys rockets from SpaceX,
and this quotation's been
attributed to a couple different
people, but I remember it
as being Alan Shepard, and
if it's not Alan Shepard,
I apologize, but he's walkin'
on the moon, and he says
you know, it's good to realize
that we came here on hardware
built by the lowest bidder.
(laughter)
It's just a charming turn of ph.
Along this line, all the
money that's spent in space
is really spent on Earth.
NASA buys rockets from these gu.
That's why there's how
they stay in business.
The Air Force spends a
lot of money on rockets.
If you're in this world, there
are an extraordinary number
of rocket launches every
month that most of us
just aren't aware of.
Military, all of these
communication satellites,
weather satellites, and many
of them, it might even be
most of them are commercial.
Most of them are commercial now.
- I sat down with Scott Kelly
and talked a little bit about
- Oh cool.
- The overview effect.
- The overview effect!
Apparently astronauts get in
space, and they get wigged out
at how beautiful the Earth is.
No political boundaries,
we're all in this together,
get over it.
It's cool.
- It's kind of a nice thing.
I think when you look at the
political landscape right now
and hear about that kind of per,
you're in for something like th,
and it would be pretty fun to g.
- So, I applied to be
an astronaut four times,
but it was different era.
How many PhDs do you have?
A, 100 to 300, it's like
who are, how many marathons
have you run this week?
It's just like who are these gu?
(laughter)
And gals, they're just
overachieving maniacs.
More power to 'em.
- And, maybe we need those
kinds of smart people on Earth
to help out as well.
- So, engineers, renewable
electricity, clean water, access
to the internet, solve the
air transportation problem,
let's go!
Let's get 'er done!
- Let get 'er done.
Also, subscribe to Science Rule!
- Science Rules! (mumbles)
Stitcher (mumbles)
Stitcher (mumbles) turn it up l.
Thank you, Jordan.
- Thank you, Bill Nye!
If you liked listening to this ,
you're gonna like watching it e.
So, go check out Klepper.
It's on all of your devices,
including your television.
Go check it out.
Thank you for listening.
