All right. Welcome, everybody. I am Todd
y in. Welcome to the bridging the Gap podcast.
You're invited to join my mission to embrace
and share the innovations transforming
the E, C, M, e, p and the manufacturing
industries. My guest today is a trained
civil engineer who felt the tempting call
of the field.
He has designed and managed many projects,
was an agent to the owners and has been
an early adopter of technology. Jason
Barber is the vice president of industry
Solutions and strategy at Mandy. Fact
on. Welcome to the show, Jason.
Thanks, Todd. Thanks for having me.
Yeah, absolutely. So how does
a civil engineer become
a construction innovation? Technologists?
Um, thanks for asking. That's ah,
you know, an interesting journey. And one that
if you'd asked me when I was first a civil engineer
that that was gonna happen, I'd say there's no way. But
you're crazy. Like, why would I do that?
Um, you know, for me,
I
realize it now, but I was always ah,
technology nerd. Now, self admittedly,
there's a lot of other construction dorks out there,
and, uh, you know, I
started out as a civil engineer,
started you know, surveying, designing and
managing my own construction projects. I was with
the the weird ones that said, Hey, I don't want
to be stuck in an office. I want to get out in the field
and, you know, worked a lot on airport projects,
highways, different infrastructure, industrial
jobs
And, you know, did that for about 15
plus years in different you know,
different careers in different positions.
But got to the point where was like, You know what?
I keep trying to do innovation
from inside of a company
and, you know, adopting certain things.
And it just got to the point was like, You know what? I
care a ton about this industry, and I really
want to help you. An agent of change of it, you
know, it's
it's frustrating from inside to see
how hard people work and how many hours they
put in
to build these amazing projects that really
help people's lives. But then they're doing it
with technology and things. That air,
you know, old, outdated, inefficient,
like they're just working so hard in some ways where
they don't have to be,
and, you know, you can see that in other industries
and ours.
You know, it's not that we haven't innovated and construction,
we absolutely have.
But just not to the level that we
could or we should.
That's part of my perspective
of it. Yeah, I'm
interested. You said the,
um, mind set of a nation of change.
What?
What do you think that mindset is
of the agent of change and then the kind
of pairing it with the early adopter of technology.
I think, you know, from my perspective, there's
a balance that you've gotta have. You
got a really take that sort
of please, but not satisfied attitude
like, Okay, guy, we built this project successfully
or, you know, we got in our under budget,
but could we have done better? Could we
not have had to do shut downs
and work straight for four weeks type
of a thing and make people not go home to their
families? And
you know some of those kinds of things and
also
but having the same
balance of pragmatism You really
saying Okay, there's reasons that that happens.
It's not that technology is the savior of all
over that. You know, some new method
can be the silver bullet to solve
those problems. It's more okay,
Here's what the real situation is. We've got
a complex task. We've got lots of
different stakeholders.
They can't make up their minds or there,
you know, changing things all the time.
Well, how can we work to
adapt to those situations,
recognize them? And then again,
take that sort of please but not satisfied
attitude? How do we
not be satisfied with that answer? How do you say,
Well, I want to do it better. I want to do it differently.
I wantto
you know, look, att outside the box.
Can we think of a new way
of
using technology whether that's hardware or
software or processes
or means and methods? Or maybe we just need to bring somebody
new in who
has a different perspective.
I think that's what
being that agent of change really
means is is again just taking
that attitude of
Yeah, Okay. We did pretty good or we didn't do
so good. But, you know, what can we do differently
in the future?
Yeah. Interesting. Uh, so what's your
favorite part of
testing out
new technology?
My favorite part is when
you know, we've been designing things
or, you know, I've been working with development
teams,
and then you get it far enough along
like where you kind of had this idea, this vision,
and you get it far enough along where it really
starts to be usable. And you see,
like how it can really affect
the industry and that part you're just
like, Oh, my God. You know, people don't
even the developers or
design teams there. They don't quite get
it. And you're like, this little thing is gonna have such a huge
impact. It's gonna make it so everybody
knows what material is going to show up for everybody.
You've got this visibility to certain things
that you just was not possible before,
and that's that's what excites me. It's like
I'm gonna save people really time
and I'm gonna have where I'm
helping them
make. The job's not so difficult that that's
the part I love about it.
Yeah, I see that.
I imagine to you on the flip side, though,
it could get kind of frustrating
that here you're seeing all this value you're
banging your head against the wall, like, why don't you see this?
It's pretty obvious
laughing because it's better than crying.
How do you deal with that frustration and try
toe kind of cut through that and get
people to to see the vision?
I don't know that I have the perfect answer
for that, but, um, because
I think I'm still working through that
the
some people, you know,
maybe it's a little bit, Ah, cut
throat. Or maybe it's a little bit disheartening.
Some people just aren't ready.
Um, it's almost this is important to
recognize the folks that aren't ready for that change
as the ones that
you know. There's almost like that whole
stage of change. From that change
management perspective. There's people who are just on
the forefront
like, Yes, I love it. I'm willing
to try stuff. I don't
know if it fails. That's great, actually,
isn't learned something from it.
That's, you know, one portion of people
out there and then there's another portion. It's like, Well,
I kind of wanna change, but I'm not really
sure. I kind of need some convincing
how help me understand it and
then once you help him understand it,
they they just they're
in, you know, and they're the ones that are just going to
be locked in for, you know, to that
idea of change for a long time. And then there's
others that
they're just you know, what people
are afraid of change. And
some of them they're like, Hey, this is my routine.
This is what I'm comfortable. Wes is We have been doing
it for a really long time, and
sometimes you just have to pick where you put
your energy and
no can't Can't change everybody,
right? Yes. So the importance of
Nolan where somebody is in
the process of change? Yep.
Uh, what's their What's their appetite for change
to? Yeah, Yeah, for sure.
Ah, ah, ah. I think that's good of
knowing where they are in the process. And then
you're just trying to get them to the next step. Not all
the way to the finish line every single time,
right? Yeah.
Some people you can get him there and some people you,
you kid. And you know, I would love to
get all them there at some point, but, you
know, can't boil the ocean either, right?
Right. Yeah, I'm curious.
What do you think is the most kind of exciting
technology to come out unless
five years
there's,
um,
come out or be adopted. You know, there's a lot of technology
that's been around for a long time, but it just
hasn't been
really that adopted.
Um,
the one that I think a lot of people don't
really think about as much sure they almost
take for granted is his mobile.
You know, I mean,
a mobile phone, the way we use it Now,
you know, tablets and cell phones.
You know, the iPhones. What, 11 years old now,
12 years old. Now.
Now. And it's still not fully adopted
by the the construction
industry. That one
to me is, you know, we've got
really cool APS, and there's more and more,
you know, monthly, it seems like for
the construction industry, but most of those
those applications air maybe 2 to
5 years old, Max,
you know, if we had
a new uber of construction or,
you know, in one of mine that
I keep joking with my wife is Home Depot
needs to be in his on prime.
Yeah, like,
but music can be amazing like,
and that's you know, that's residential commercial construction.
No smaller type projects. But if you had
that kind of a service for,
you know, larger construction projects. How
phenomenal would that be? So
mobile to me has been, um,
from a hardware standpoint, one of the agents
of change.
I think that's interesting, cause it
I think it's so easy to take mobile for Grant it
because in our personal lives, it's it's everywhere.
You use it all the time. You don't
even I think that it's been around
that recent, you know, are that it hasn't
been around for forever because
it's so integrated in our lives.
How do we bring that into the
the construction industries that
interested take there,
the other one? That, um,
I'm really excited about what's gonna
happen with it. I think we're still
pretty early stages.
Is taking leads there skinning,
Combining with you no point cloud
imagery.
You know, we
again, I look at ah, phone
is not just a phone, it's a sensor. We've
got this really powerful sensor
with GPS information
and a camera, and that camera
can take such high quality images that
that becomes a point cloud.
So, you know, it's basically low
fidelity laser scanning of
a site or of a corn shell building
or, you know, Hey, I'm in
the process of doing a tenant improvement
that that can feed into,
you know, been models in.
You don't have toe, always get
a really expensive pieces of equipment
to go get a high, detailed laser scan
of the building.
You know that stuff? We're
that level of detail and leisure skating has
been around for
Army Corps of Engineers started developing
it Army Research labs like 35
years ago, four years ago.
But it's
even in the last three years. It's
had a big adoption trend.
Just tow, make models
to then go build off of design off
of. So you know, you're really conditions.
What do you do you dealing with?
Yeah, now that's cool.
Uh, so safety is a
big
buzzword and initiative
in the industry right now, but how do we
push it to the next level?
Um, you know, I'm,
ah, I'm a firm believer that safety
is one of those things where
we've we've pushed the industry and
we've pushed ourselves toe
really make it a priority. And
there's certain companies have been front runners of
that for a long time.
Um,
generally, workers in the field.
They're not intentionally making decisions
that put themselves at risk for put their co workers
at risk. I definitely believe that
it's usually a lack of knowledge
or a lack of
autonomy. And I see it as
you know, there's lots of rules
and best practices and all kinds of stuff. But,
you know, the human brain can only process so much
information at a time.
How do we
make it so that you know they know the
right information at that
moment from a safety perspective. So,
like I'm working on a scaffolding? Well,
um,
if I knew exactly what's the
right way to you know,
what's the right kind of harness? Do I need a retractable?
Do I lead? Need a lanyard? Are we using
no passive fall protection? Do I need
a tow board? What's the way to the dead man
that I need for my rigging like all
those things, like those air
Pretty complicated things. And safety professionals
can spend entire careers knowing and
learning all those
aspects of it.
To expect a construction worker
who's normal job is
framing or doing the waterproofing on that roof.
How can we reasonably expect them
to have all that knowledge. So
it's making that knowledge at
the forefront really easily consumable
and then helping them validate and
discern that information
to me. I think that's kind of the
the next step and it's it's that
training. That's that knowledge.
So,
you know Hey, maybe there's, ah,
time in the future where guys got a hard
hat. It's got his augmented reality
glasses on there and it's
showing him, Hey, all right, now that you're
climbing up on the scaffolding
reminder, you need to move
your, you know,
hook from here to here on your
harness like, yeah,
that kind of stuff would just be phenomenal.
You have would be pretty cool. It doesn't
seem like the technologies that, far
away from getting there, either
know whether the adoption. That's a different question.
But the technology seems
to be pretty close. Yeah, the
technology seems pretty close, you know, I think,
um, but that's one. We'll
just have to be again pragmatic
about it, you know, it's it's awesome,
and technology can be a great way to solve
that. But,
you know, I also we don't want that
augmented reality be a distraction from
people recognizing their own environments,
right? Yeah, sure.
My one of my mantra is, especially as I was
running operations, is
Look, I can I can give anybody
all the different safety requirements and
best practices, but
ultimately, the only person who can
keep from getting hurt is yourself
and then maybe the guy next year or gal
next to you like you gotta look out for yourself
and look out for the person next to you because that
I can't control that
nobody else can control that. Like OSHA is
not going to control that.
It's about
take care of yourself and knowing that you have
the autonomy
toe, do something about it and
then also looking up for the person next to you.
Hey, that's
ultimately what it comes down to and plus the knowledge
and the training and all those.
Sure. Well, let's get into some
prefab. What do you see? It's
kind of some of the main reasons
somebody would use been
four prefab
been for prefab, you know, to me,
that's almost ah, no brainer. Been
is the easiest way Thio
create a visualization and really
get your head around literally
and figuratively
what you're building you know. And there's,
you know, people who are
trained professionals in that industry for a long
time can look a drawing a two
D drawing and really understand it pretty quickly.
And they can almost visualize that their three d visualizing
in their heads
then say like, all right,
this is how we're gonna build it. And I know what the
dimensions need to be. And I could be the layout
that's not always
easy for other folks. So Bhim is
a great way to first
work out all the details.
That's why it's called detailing. But
work it out
so that you know all those parts and
pieces, and you know how it's gonna fit into the
broader
building or structure or whatever it is.
Um, gives you that riel,
volumetric, dimensionally, accurate
peace or
pieces of pieces.
So then say Okay, now we're gonna go build it.
We're gonna build it in the shop because,
you know, one of the challenges if you
didn't have been and you're trying to do
a bunch of prefab are off site work
now, you know you
wouldn't have
the ability to work through those details within
the construct
of what you're gonna put it into in the future.
You don't. You know, traditional stick
built things you can go filled, measure all you want.
Like, what's the difference between this Columbine?
Well, okay, I can go measure that night and go
cut the piece and make sure it fits.
Well, if I'm trying to pre fab it, I need to still
cut it to that same accuracy.
But it's much more difficult for me to go field.
Measure it
with a tape measure or a laser or whatever.
Right? I'm done. Measure it on. Bim
and bim will give me the exact number,
especially if my been models dimensionally
accurate, which they are now
I can fabricate it and have that real confidence
that it's gonna fit when I truck it
two states over and go install it. Yeah,
yeah, s o as we're
recording this where we're all in the mist
of social distancing and
all these new phrases that we
are learning about with Kobe 19.
Do you think that this could potentially
serve as a catalyst still
and make prefab more common as when
we come out of this?
I think it could you know,
we were all still figuring
it out? Obviously. Yeah, what it
means. And, um, you know
what? Work from home or stay at home orders
or shelter in place orders.
All those stories really mean all those new phrases
we're learning and trying to figure out what they
mean? Uh,
I think,
you know, I'm hopeful that it
will help us be
that catalyst to see.
Okay, wait a minute. We're now having a think
about new and different ways of working.
We've been kind of dipping our toes in prefab
as an industry.
Why would we not, you know,
take this opportunity to just go full
blown into it. We're gonna see a lot
of the benefits that we've all been talking about, it
as an industry. And,
um,
you know, the tough part is now
are seeing another transition in
the workforce.
You know, we were gonna see people
loser jobs in the construction industry, and we're
gonna have to attract him back, you
know, much like we did after the weight. 09
And we
use industry. Didn't do a great job
on the sea of attracting people back
like we've got
even before the whole cove in situation. We had
less workers in construction
in North America than we did 3
2008
Um,
now it could be
Well, you know why we want these controlled
environments. We wanna create good
work forces and good work places.
So who wouldn't want to work in a factory as opposed
to on a job site
that could be
120 degrees or could be, you know,
minus 10 degrees, depending on where you're
at in the country and what's going on?
No. Um, yeah. I
think when you when you get
into some of the issues of
attracting people in the industry,
I come at it through, Ah, marketing
lens. But it seems like there is a marketing issue
going on the for whatever
reason, the industry just
isn't great at,
uh, marketing themselves to potential
employees of all the
cool stuff that they're doing And the safety
there's such, uh huh.
Misperception
about what it means to actually
be in the field in the construction industry. And
what do you do all day long
that I think if the industry could kind
of wrap its mind around, how do we market
it better
then that would solve some of the
is, you know, not want to get you all the way there. But
you would start to see some
more attraction
to the construction industry because it's a cool industry
by your technology.
Really cool stuff that's going on. Yes.
Tell them stories like pride of ownership,
pride of workmanship like
now and
the people in industry
are are awesome. They're some of the most
genuine people across the board. They,
you know, kind of by
nature, kind of by the situations
you're in, like you have this
shared common goal, and that could be a simple
is like. All right, we're gonna go get this
apartment building built.
Well, if you took the moment to step back
like I'm building housing for people, that
that's pretty cool. And that's a pretty simple
project. But other ones, like,
All right, maybe I'm building a wastewater treatment plant
that doesn't sound that Flash your
that exciting. But
guess what? We all gotta flush your toilets in that,
You know, we as an industry
are addressing the needs of
people like inner
modern society. You and
I think we forget that we don't market it very well.
We do a terrible job marketing it.
So we just, you know,
the opportunities in the construction industry for
anybody and everybody. You know, talk
about an industry where you can start from the very
beginning
and work your way up in this, um, senior
positions and
have a CZ many opportunities you want
and really be proud of what you've done.
There's not as many and not too many industries
that have that.
Yeah, for sure.
So if you're building offsite, how
do you know if you're on the right track or
the wrong track going forward?
Um, I think the
right or the wrong track.
I don't know that there's a definitive right or wrong track.
I think the wrong track is if you
if you come at prefab and saying like,
Okay, this is going to solve all my problems.
Um, that's not realistic.
I think it's
to get on the right track. You've got to say,
Well, what were the goals and trying to accomplish
with prefab
in my,
you know, trying to get my
labor rates down, you know, because
of or
am I trying is my core goal, too
attracted different workforce or is my
core goal to address really complex
scheduling things,
you know? So we've got a just
comes to mind. I got a customer who
they're pre fiving eventual wall panels
for a hospital that's in Newfoundland
while Newfoundland's construction seasons about
a short as it gets
set for maybe, like far Fairbanks
or something like that. Yeah, and
it's a pretty big hospital and
their Their whole thing was like, We
probably won't save any money. Maybe
we will.
Um, but we don't know how he would execute
on this job without prefab in
all the exterior wall panels
inside of a factory, shipping him
out there, being able to set him super quickly
and get the wall the whole building closed in
so that we can work through the winner.
Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to do that job. It
would be really, really difficult.
It would take so much longer because
you've got
six weeks to two months of the
construction season toe. Get
that thing closed in. So
I think that you're right. A wrong track
of prefab. You gotta really think about
what are your goals. And don't try
to make a whole bunch of goals. Pick 2 to
3
and really decided. All right, You know,
here's what we're gonna tackle. Here's what our
focus areas, we're gonna be schedule improvements
or workforce or
no cost, or even maybe quality,
quality and safety can be ones and
in and of themselves, you know, which also
tied to some of those financial gains.
But,
hey, are we having problems where we're doing? A lot of
rework or
one of the ugliest terms is re fab,
So you do prefab. But are you having to do
re fab because you read it wrong? Well,
that's that's not helpful.
It's so
just taking those focused areas and
really just tackling him and putting those processes
and have the discipline. That's that's how you know
you're on the right track.
Yeah, interesting s So are
there any kind of routines
for success that people can incorporate
when there
they're thinking through and tryingto
do off site and prefab?
Yeah, I think the routine is, um,
almost in parallel to kind of picking.
What the core challenges you want
to tackle is
picking what pieces?
So don't
don't look at your whole job. If you're an electrician's
or mechanical contractor and say we're gonna
prefab everything. Well,
that's again. That's not realistic
to say. Well, all right, maybe we're gonna just
prefab all of the receptacles
and the whips.
Let's just do that on this first job. Let's get really
good at that and figure out how we can standardize
No, the parts and pieces as much as possible
with that. Or,
you know, maybe I'm just gonna standardize
what kind of Eunice truck we use.
Simple things like that were
Maybe it's the hangars and we
if you looked at all your projects, you've got 15
different types of ministry that all accomplish the same
thing. Let's just pick
maybe three or four that we can
still use for
different weights and different Anchorages and that
kind of stuff. But
instead of trying to have
people who know howto build and
assemble
those 50 different kinds of Eunice truck, they get
really, really good
at 3 to 4 kinds of the instructor.
So I think that's
when you're starting in that pre five journey. That's probably
the best place to start is okay,
let's pick
3 to 5 things that we're just gonna focus on
and kid get really good and do
that whole
kind of lean methodology a continuous improvement,
like
do measure, check, change,
improve like and just keep keep going
through it to really see
and and realize those gains that you
can get.
Yeah, the whole practice makes perfect
mentality there.
How can you practice something if you're doing it differently
all the time?
Good point. You can't.
Not at least it
if you want to get it, it
makes it really hard. Not so on
that vein
in with prefab.
What is productivity mean to you?
Proactive is really interesting one, you know,
productivity
with prefab. And you see this
as people gonna go through the maturity
curve of prefab.
Um,
you know, most
most people in the construction industry look at productivity
is
how many labourers directly Rose? Did
it take for me to do this
and that super important? That's
a big driver in your business. That's probably one
of the biggest variables,
um, in your business that determines your
profitability and margins and
and all those things that keep us in business.
Um, but in your doing prefab
would almost ends up happening. Is you start
taking. You're still looking at direct hours But
then you're also looking at
How did we produce this
item?
Um,
and that it almost becomes more that manufacturing
mentality.
You know, what was our direct costs
to be able to produce
that Eunice truck track more
to produce this piping skid
or pumps or whatever?
And how did we
get, how productive were we
in the cutting stages of it? How productive were
we in assembly? How productive worry in the welding,
How productive worry in the shipping pieces of
it. Obviously there still labor
tied all those things. But there's
a shift in productivity to
not just hated. We go
above or below the budgeted hours
that we put for those things. But
how productive were we? How many units
per hour can we make our units per day
or ugh to those stages per day?
And that's a bit of a mind shift switch
still tied, a productivity still tied
to,
you know, margins and profitability. But
it shifts. You're thinking from,
you know, budgets versus actuals on
labor hours too.
No units of production per hour
or per some time period.
Yeah. Uh, so, looking
back over the last five years, what
new realization or approach
has helped you navigate the industry.
Um
oh, that's a
new realization or approach
I would actually see. And it's one
again. I think we take Children in, um,
communication.
I think
you know,
we have
this journey we're trying to go through where
you know, the industry is about 10%
of the total cost of jobs. It's prefab,
and that's that's pretty.
That's a high level for certain jobs.
Like that's,
You know, there's certain ones that are above that and there's others, but
most of them are less.
Quite honestly,
um,
communication is probably the biggest blocker
to that. Communicating the details.
Communicating status is communicating
where the pieces are communicating,
what pieces you need communicating, what tools
you mean. Um
and that's one of the things that I see
you know, in the last five years that that
technology just like we're doing right
now, we're on a
video conference and communicating with
each other halfway across the US
in real time, like we can use
technology pieces too,
to facilitate that communication and
communicate people. Hey, what do I need
to know right now?
What I need to know tomorrow and what do I need
to do something about.
And that if that is gonna be
to me,
contextualized communication is going to be the
biggest agent of change.
Yeah, I love that. So let's
look forward five years now, what's
your prediction for what will
be using and what the industry will look
like in five years?
Yeah. In five years,
I would love to see voice. He used
a lot more
as an interface, you know? Okay,
mobile phones are awesome. And we've got the super
cool touch screens, but, um,
on a job site, that isn't the easiest way
to interface with things
I'm getting date myself. But even some
of the blackberries and other things like that almost
were easier. You still really warm out because
the stupid little spinning wheels great.
It always got stuck. I always get stuck.
But, you know, you could at least type on a keyboard
with gloves on or
you know, things like that.
You know, touch screens
began really cool and really
helpful. But it's it's not
the next level. I mean, I
five years from now, imagine if you're
okay. Maybe we're not quite to the full augmented
reality headset type things. But
if I was able to just have my tablet
or my big workstation touch screen
right there
and did my Alexis or hey, Siri
type thing,
I asked him. Hey, show me the rose.
Now, I've got my Lexa talking in the background
that you heard it
Nice. She's everywhere
is everywhere,
but asking a Can you show you
show me the,
um,
installation details for
this pipe school. You know,
how much am I supposed to Twerk this nut
too? And it showed you those
answers.
I think that would be just, you know, phenomenon.
There's people working on that now,
um,
you know, it's early stages, but I think
voice is gonna be
probably the next wave of impact,
you know, from a technology and things that
were using will take it for granted at that point.
You know, five years from now, you and I will be
doing the same thing and,
like, Oh, yeah, we kind of forget that voice
was a new thing for us, right?
Yeah. It's crazy How, uh,
fast
time moves in technology.
Yeah,
s o tell us more about
manufacture on it and how people can get
more information
Yeah. So many fact on, um,
we we call ourselves the offsite construction
platform.
You know, our our goal and our
intentions is to really be a software
platform that facilitates a lot of that communication.
Puts in some business rules so you could
move through that hole.
Um, supply Ching prefab
manufacturing journey
to get to
only up to installation and being able to attract
your installation. So
we give you some of that the software
Thio digitize your processes
and have things communicate
through out. So
report back to a model in real time.
Hey, are you Is this element being detailed?
Is it in? Manufacturing is in shipping. Is
it an installation?
No.
Maybe a change order comes down the Rhine and
your detailers, you know, get that
information they go. Wait a minute. Well, 10
of these units that you just did a changeover
for already manufacturing. Or maybe they
already installed.
Like our costs are going to be more than you thought
they were. We Are You sure you wanna do this?
Or
they can say Oh, Yep. Everything's
cool. We haven't even done much with it. You know,
we can just go detail it
that that visibility, that communication
is all right there in real time.
Nice. That's huge. Yeah,
it's absolutely huge. And that's one aspect
of what we do. And it also brings
a lot of those details information right
to the work face
the work face being
Hey, if I'm a detailer,
I'm It's right in my work face with my
rabbit plug in
or other tools that I'm using.
Or if I'm in manufacturing,
I've got my production orders with all those
fabrication details
right there at my work face where there is an iPad
or ah, a phone or a
big touch screen in the shop.
Um, same with, you know, shipping
and installation.
I have my information I need
right there at my work face. I'm not having
hunted out, searching out.
Ask somebody for it with thousands
of phone calls. Remember my superintendents,
I felt like all they did was be on the phone all day
long. Like your most
experienced, you know,
journeymen type people.
Why were you just on the phone? I want youto help
train people and
look for holes, but yeah, that's
what they do, most of
it nice.
And how do people
reach out to a man, in fact, on to
get more info. Yeah. Easiest way
is going the website. So, man, in fact,
on dotcom
can go on their request, a
demo or you got phone numbers,
All that kind of stuff. We're also partners
of applied and
so, you know, reach out to their sales teams
as well. Happy toe.
Take any information and get people
what they need.
Awesome. Sounds good. Well, thank you so much
for joining the show today, Jason. Really
appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks, Dad. Thanks for having me.
Absolutely. Well, glad you have
your back sometime.
Unpack a whole lot more.
Absolutely.
And thank you to those listening. If you are interested
in learning more, you can visit our sponsor
applied software at SD i dot com
for more information.
And you can listen to this podcast anytime by
simply going to apple podcast Spotify
for wherever you listen to podcasts. Also
be sure to check out our website bridging the gap
pod dot com until next time
I'm Todd y in thanking you for joining us
on bridging the gap podcast.
Keep innovating
