All right, why don't we go ahead and
start!
Good afternoon and welcome to
our inaugural gathering highlighting
Faculty Profiles in Research, Art and Innovation.
I'm Cherry Williams. I'm the
UCR library's Director of Distinctive Collections,
which some of you may know is
also home to the renowned
Eaton Collection of Science Fiction and
Fantasy.
Today we will be in conversation
with Professor John Jennings and Dr.
Nalo Hopkinson.
Today we will be exploring
Afro-futurist Comics: Sankofa
and the Black Speculative Re-imagination
Before we start, I have just a couple of
housekeeping things.
One is please be aware
that this is being recorded.
And two, due to the large number of attendees you
are all muted.
We will not be checking the hand-raising,
but we are going to be monitoring the chat.
And we've saved time in particular for questions and answers
that you'll be able to get answers to
your questions after their talk
So, it is now my great pleasure to introduce to you our panel discussions,
Dr. Nalo Hopkinson and Professor John Jennings
Dr. Nalo Hopkinson, award-winning
author of numerous novels and short
stories, is a professor in UCR's Creative
Writing Department and in the Science
Fiction and Cultures of Science Program.
Professor Hopkinson writes science
fiction and fantasy, which tries to be
mindful of the deep diversity of human
identity and experience.
In 2018, she began
her foray into writing comics when
she was selected to be the author of
House of Whispers, a monthly 22-page
story for DC Comics in the world of
author Neil Gaiman and man
Professor Hopkinson is also a member of UC's
Science Fiction Research Center.
John Jennings is a professor of Media and
Cultural Studies at the University of
California, Riverside.
He is an
interdisciplinary scholar who examines
the visual culture of race in various
media forms including film, illustrated
fiction, comics, and graphic novels.
He is also the co-editor of the Eisner
Award-winning collection, The Blacker the
Ink: Constructions of the Black Identity
in Comics, and sequential art.
Professor Jennings' current projects include the horror anthology box owns; the coffee
table book, Black Comics Returns, with
Damien Duffy; and the Eisner
Award-winning Bram Stoker Award-winning
New York Times best selling graphic
novel adaptation of Octavia Butler's
classic dark novel, Kindred.
And finally, it's my great pleasure to introduce to you our moderator for today's panel,
Professor Sherryl Vint.
Professor Vint is a member of the
Departments of Media and Culture
Studies and English at the University of
California, Riverside, where she directs
the Speculative Fiction and Cultures of
Science program.
Her work focuses on
reading speculative fiction as an
everyday sight of critical engagement of
pressing social and justice political issues.
In her race most recent book, Bio
Political Futures in 21st Century
Speculative Fiction, is forthcoming from
Cambridge University Press.
Professor Vint.
So, thank you, and I believe we're first going to have the presentations
right?
And then I will do the moderating
So, I'll just say first of all, to the
people -- I have some questions that were
submitted to me in advance. And then I'll
be monitoring the chat as the the
presentations are given and during the
discussion period and I'll try to go one
question from the pre submitted ones, one
from the chat.
And I know we have many
people here today, which is fantastic to
see all this interest in speculative
fiction and especially the work of my
colleagues
so I'm undoubtedly not going to get to
all of your questions I apologize in
advance
we're so glad that all of you are here
with us so I will now turn things over
wonderful thank you so much it's such an
honor
so did you we didn't you know we should
have flipped the coin which one of us do
you want us you go first
that way you can be an example to me
uh-huh
I feel tricked okay here we go
all right so much share screen here oh
yeah by the way I want to do a preface
to for some reason to the audience um
there's been like a little bit of you
know wait on the wait time for the
parable book and I'm not sure but I'll
try to fix that so you know just just
let you know that all right so we're
going to start here we should tell them
John that we are reading each other's
stories oh yeah by the way we're reading
each other's stories thank you now
though for saying that I did not mention
that thank you
I'm actually reading some comixology
right across the pond which is out of
context North Louisiana Latoya Maggie
stop darling what we were about to tell
you guys anyway like I didn't know you
knew Lumi and you didn't tell me it's
their business
oh-ho baby don't say you're mad at me I
brought you both presents latoya said
you'd like these trying to borrow love
already huh cool
it's ugly don't be rude Habibi it can be
your lucky charm okay I don't want it
Habibi
you
I do thank you for lady Zhu Li
pretty far yourself stranger not too
smart though going for a swim and
convert like that I sure don't bed in
the grab for shiny pretty things now on
the tail in those girls story
you sure about that you're the one to
change trapped but I'm the one who got
you free seems to me I'm the one who
gets to partake of their story now
fair's fair
your care to your prize anyway you're
probably a bit of deity for them than I
am
Monday at your service oh my
so what's that under the hat
okay would you come over to the house
someday and tell me your story
sure they will and be my honor but now
I'm back to catching fish for my Young's
of course they're mine women girls and
the stories of all their lives are mine
to care for gotta feed our baby soon or
they'll eat each other the missus
wouldn't like to know she wouldn't
the toy don't really you know you don't
really like Maggie you just try to be
like dad you got it wrong since I date
girls and you know dad dates guys
that's not what I
she's me it doesn't mean you you're my
sister now you know you don't get to
tell me what
moon dream Dean James and guys and
viscous sure
was the same with dismay the story I was
sent for guess it's time to move on
hey when you get to your place let me
know let me show you this weird book I
found I've been trying to figure it out
and my story is always in in two years
all right so as to pair this step shape
and the share screen again and we will
go to parable of the sower and again I
will fix anything and it jumps off the
full screen everybody can see this there
so the beginning of parable of the sower
20:24 Prodigy is at its essence
adaptability and persistent positive
obsession without persistence what
remains is an enthusiasm of the moment
without adaptability what remains may be
channeled into destructive fanaticism
without positive obsession there's
nothing at all
earth seed the books of the living by
Loren oh yeah or La Mina all that you
touch you change all that you change
changes you the only lasting truth is
change God is change earth seed the
books of the Living me at seven years
old Saturday July twenty twenty twenty
four I have my recurring dream last
night I guess I should have expected it
it comes to me when I struggle when I
tried to be my father's daughter but I
fee a row tener la las estrellas I
should say I don't speak much Spanish so
forgive me my stepmother Corazon Ola
Mina las estrellas some gratis prefiero
tener las luces de la ciudad de vuelta
so last night I dreamed a reminder that
it's all a lie
a gift of God may ser unready fingers
exceed the books of the Living Sunday
July 21 2020 for at least three years
ago my father's God stopped being my god
and yet today because I'm a coward I let
my father baptize me in all three names
of that God who isn't mine anymore my
God has another name yesterday was our
birthday my 15th and my father's 55th
this morning we got up early to go
across town to church here we see Keith
Marcus dad dad's a Baptist minister
minister most Sundays he hold services
in our front rooms not all of the people
living within our neighborhood walls are
Baptists but those who need to go to
church are glad to come to us that way
they don't have to go outside it's bad
enough that some people my father for
one have to go out to work at least once
a week
none of us goes out to school anymore
adults get nervous about kids going
outside but today was special
my father made arrangements with his
friend Reverend Robinson who still has a
real church building the real baptistry
we see smaller the characters Edwin Dunn
is one of them we see Hector quintanilla
true Balter and Sylvia done the
alternative was to be baptized in the
bathtub at home that would have been
cheaper and safer and fine with me I
said so but no one paid any attention
you see why
and Kurtis all right Wyatt token Kurt is
talking to the adults going outside to a
real church was like stepping back into
the good old days when they were
churches all over and too many lights
and gasoline was too few up fueling
vehicles instead of torturing things
adults never miss a chance to really the
good old days or tell kids how great is
gonna be when the country gets back on
its feet
she dazed or drunk or something well
maybe she's been raped so much she's
gone crazy like that story on the radio
yeah good old days what wonderful
religious thoughts they'll be having for
a while I wish we could give her some
clothes Corey and dad stopped to help an
injured woman and the guys who hurt her
tried to jump them to most of us kids it
was an excuse to go outside the wall
most of us aren't concerned with
religion I am but I have a different
religion
my brother Keith he just didn't care he
just wanted to hang out with his friends
and pretend to be grown-up and dodge
work and dodge school and dodge church
he looked around more than anyone as we
rode his ambition is to get out of our
neighborhood and go to Los Angeles he's
never too clear about what he'll do
there just go to the big city and make
big money according to my father the big
city is a carcass covered with maggots I
think he's right they're not all maggots
are in LA they're here too and Robledo
20 miles away according to dad
it was once a green little city that
he'd been eager to abandon his youth
eager like Keith for big-city excitement
that was before dad's parents were
robbed and murdered before there was a
neighborhood wall
crazy to live without a wall to protect
you
even in Robledo most of the street for a
desperate or crazy or both worse for me
worse for me they often have things
wrong with them I tried not to look at
them as we rode but I couldn't help
seeing collecting some misery they cut
off one another's limbs carry untreated
diseases they have no money for water to
wash so even the end wounded have sores
I can take a lot of pain without showing
it I've had to learn to do that
they're all malnourished or poisoned by
bad food
but it was hard to keep peddling with
everything I saw made me feel worse and
worse so I'm going to thank you for
doing as wonderful thank you stop share
and I think we're good great fantastic
thank you for sharing your work and for
especially using common ecology to let
us see the beautiful artwork that goes
with it that was really a treat because
I haven't seen the parable adaptation
before so beautiful oh you know read it
wonderfully I felt like I was tripping
over your words and I was I was and I'm
so in love with domos work but thank you
for that that's very kind that will give
me some time to look through the chat
and the first one is a pretty broad
question so we can go in a number of
different directions it's for each of
you to answer you can decide which order
you want and the question is what is
that for a future ISM and where do you
feel that it's going no no absolutely
right I guess I feel like I'm old enough
to have seen four futurism come around
go around two or three times and become
a movement at least twice so it began
with the scholar and culture critic
Braun his name just cake went straight
out of my head okay yeah yeah yeah Terry
Burke Terry who was noticing some trends
in African diasporic music in particular
but literature as well in the ways that
we talk about the future and about
sort of the imaginative life bar
cultures and so he he he coined the term
afrofuturism to discuss some of those
things I'll start with that
Joan do you have anything to add to it
oh sure yeah definitely yeah yeah so
basically that that that piece did mark
there wrote it was a collection of like
I said it was a collection of interviews
and I was not stating its you know just
he was making note of I guess the
indexes of different types of you know
Afrocentric cultural production methods
that were you know that we have been
doing for like a long time honestly and
then of course you also have people like
a laundry Nelson who started looking at
this notion of like Stickle of work but
a lot of dairies focus was on you know
the the african-american you know
experience and this kind of like sense
of unwi and displacement because of the
African because of the middle passage
because slave trade and he talked a lot
about the idea of the prosthetic you
know the notion of like the side work
for setting you know in the description
you know and you know in some ways it
was it was interesting because it
indefinite was talking about this kind
of metaphorical notion of like what
technology was but the other thing I
love about the definition I'm having in
front of me but he used the phrase for
lack of a better term in the definition
you know which I thought was always
interesting cuz he was like you know I
see these things happening I'm
interviewing these people he's he's
really trying to get at the fact that
there were a lot of like science fiction
writers of color I don't like black no
black science we talked to the legendary
Sammy Delaney in the you know in the
piece yeah and so I think since then is
kind of the
first time I came across the term I was
I was dealing with it in like the early
2000s in my own work and I was really
inspired by Donna Haraway cyborg
manifesto and also Frantz Fanon's work
the effect of blackness and I was making
these black cyborgs you know and someone
said hey you know what this looks
afro-futurist and I was like you're
making up words and I don't understand
which is and then I was like then I
started doing some research and I
realized like you know there is this is
a cultural production space that was
marked by you know the birth of the
cyber you know the sack of cyberspace to
a certain degree right
and I think since then has turned into
various strands of black speculation
from horror to fantasy to what have you
and I think we're probably like in this
third iteration because and to me just
personally I want stop talking but it's
like I feel like it's this generations
like Black Arts Movement like ahead
because there are a lot of people who
are involved in different levels of
black political struggle who are also
you know thinking about you know black
futures and so or black pasts we because
like the idea of reimagining and
reclaiming the past is also part of it
right because you're using Sankofa right
which is go back and get it and if idiot
con term to go back and get that and
push it into the future because
unfortunately I mean we're in the middle
of a pandemic we lost the middle of a
race gimmick and we'll black people and
black labs you know are suspect and the
idea of a black future is still a very
radical notion you know that's it I came
to it in part because there's still this
notion in the world that African
cultural production act for African
storytelling when I see African I mean
African diasporic is can only cope with
realism and it's we either don't have
enough imagination or something to
imagine anything else and as somebody
who was always reading science fiction
fantasy then came to writing it after
futures makes a space for me so when
so that scholar Alondra Nelson was
starting a listserv way back when to
discuss matters of a current futurism I
joined up real fast and that's where I
met people like I use a jammer
everywhere to people like Chewbacca
Lanka
Alondra herself just people talking
about these ideas and talking about
black imaginative futures and black
imaginative realities thank you and John
I'm really glad you mentioned your
cyborg work it's such beautiful work and
and like one of the really innovative
moments in in the evolution about for
futurism
and I'm going to give a shout out to one
of your projects to you now oh they so
long been dreaming anthology which was
to my knowledge the first to really
think about framing post-colonial
responses so science fiction from with a
post-colonial perspective as a political
mood and is specifically rewriting back
to some shanwa tropes that were in
desperate need of unpacking their
colonial underpinnings so you've both
been like such such leaders in this
field
so this mentions I'm not sure if the
library staff were monitoring the chat
as well but apparently some people are
having trouble with the sound cutting in
and out so I'll just like that to more
technical people than me to look into
monitoring the chats about the extent of
my technical expertise and we will turn
to a question from the chat which is for
each of you again I'll leave it up to
you to decide who wants to go first but
what is a project of yours that was a
favorite to work on or that's most close
to you where and why I like that one
that question to sort of if I had
children asking me which was my favorite
baby and I wouldn't tell you that either
I think it's always the one that's
currently under my under my fingers the
one that I'm currently struggling with
that is my most favorite and that's when
I finish it and while I'm doing it it's
my least favorite but it's that that new
new book energy that news story energy
makes makes it my favorite in the moment
I should go back to that previous
comment of your Cheryl about so long
been dreaming and thank you for that and
say that the idea for post-colonial
science fiction actually came from
another scholar appended behind who cou
edited it was his idea to have to create
the anthology and he approached me and I
said what's post colonialism and we had
a very long talk absolutely
the initial idea came from him when the
two of us got together and made it
happen
but yeah favorite favorite one to work
on so currently it's it's housed in
whispers because look what we made first
time writing comics really and they put
me together with a team of brilliant
brilliant artists thinkers colourists
the people doing the covers the people
doing the lettering and really good
editors and I'm very pleased with it and
I got to do initial sketches for uncle
Monday yes there's all my favorite
things
yeah and I got to raise character so you
know I'm kind of torn I think honestly
I've been working with my friend Damien
Duffy for like 15 years right and you
know he's a wonderful collaborator is
the co adapter of you know fabulous or
and it's his job to actually go through
the texts of the amazing Octavia Butler
and trying to make them into graphic
novels and he does I think in this
extraordinary job you know and so I
would say and this is where on the first
comics what do we did together it was a
steak
circuit breaker years and years I'm
talking 15 years ago and I think it's
one might think it might be my favorite
one because it was the first time I
really collaborate with someone and it
really clicked the first time you know
because it opened up a lot of
possibilities and it made me fall in
love with collaboration and essentially
it was an old story that he had kicking
around his head and we tried it and
we're Gary to submit it to an art show
and I think that I forgot what the theme
of the art show was but we turned that
image we turned that story a 10-page
like art comic up gallery comic around
in a weekend and a full in a weekend
right because we just clicked so well
it's like this is what I want to do that
was a click click click click and I was
working digitally and that was when we
knew was like man we need to do more
comics together you know I'm saying and
I think not only was it the beginning of
a wonderful partnership and Carlos it
was j2d too but it was also the
beginning of my really my craving for
like collaboration you know and I think
that was the first time I really really
hit me and I still loved that comic too
you know so many things that would
change now but it was the first thing
and it was successful people dug it and
it was an art show and anything else I'm
working on okay well the next question
I'm gonna combine two of the questions
that were priests admitted to try to get
through as many as we can
and these two were somewhat similar so
one was phrased as what's your dream
project and the other was something you
haven't done yet in your career and you
look forward to working on as you move
forward so those seem like related
questions choose among your children oh
that's hard
hold on is hard damn question sorry I'm
choosing those hard ones too but I want
to know so favorite so West's are like a
challenge you haven't had yet and
something that you would like to try
doing you first no all right I'm gonna
be mischief
be mischief I am mischief I'm gonna be
mischievous they I would like to do the
graphic novelization of Samuel are
Delaney's Babel 17 oh we have an
audience of how many hundred here I just
wanna be them and chips where Delaney's
work has meant so much to me over the
years and has literally brought me life
in so many ways and to do something like
that particularly if I could do it with
chip looking over my shoulder which
would not be easy the man was my mentor
and is got you know brains for all of us
and then some but that would be my dream
project and what about the second part I
forget what they were similar but if you
want to give it a shot it was something
you haven't had a chance to do yet in
your career that you would like like to
do and you've done them so continue
doing them yes I would like actually to
get some but I don't just write I'm a
maker as well of 3d objects I'd like to
start getting some of my work in jar
choose hmm yeah that's my in fact before
just before lockdown a head so somebody
invite me to put something into a group
show and they don't know if that she was
going to happen now so the next question
I'm going back to the chat and no no I
don't have to like a stop is cool no I
was just gonna say like I really want to
continue working on my blue hand mojo
graphic novel series and I think I have
the hankerin either produce or work on a
screenplay of some kind of like you know
and produce something that for the
screen you know maybe
okay that's it all right okay so our
next one coming from the chat and it's
asking about recommendations for things
that successfully integrate black
imagination and politics and the sort of
context for the question is living and
working in Riverside Inland Empire area
and then all the things we've been
seeing going on lately of course black
lives matter protests but also thinking
about indigeneity and people in color in
America more generally so how is that
influencing your work and then also what
recommendations would you have for work
that's taking up those kinds of
intersections hmm I mean it's always
influencing my work you know I'm you
know I'm a black man in America and I
came up you know poor and you know and
oppressed in a space that was that I was
never supposed to exist in so you know
everything that I make is about those
experiences you know to a certain degree
one way or the other and unfortunately
but um you know I mean so to me
storytelling is a technology to deal
with those and so yeah I'm constantly
thinking about those in fact you know I
always talk to my friend Stacy about
this you know the always feels that the
black experience in America
you know the black artist is kind of
trapped by the need to to create
political work you it like we can't
really sit around and make but be lovely
to play paint some some some some
sunflowers maybe really to be really
angry you know sunflowers that are
fighting against the pressure you know
saying it's Leslie you know we can't we
can't we have to don't have time to
really make things that aren't political
I think as far as like stuff that I
recommend I mean a lot of the most of
the stuff that's like speculative
fiction by people of colors tents it
seems just like it is political right
I mean I'd recommend our book I'm
Alfonso Jones my Tony Medina and Stacy
and myself which is a it's a black lives
matter oriented you know graphic novel
what else no no we got stuff work right
yeah yeah and the work of professors on
campus we're soon to be joined by Andrew
Carrington for instance American
scholarly work just mind-blowing
somebody asked me literally a couple
days ago how my work had changed in the
face of Kobe 19 and responses to black
lives matter and I don't think it's
changing because and doing what I always
did which is responding to that kind of
thing I'm a science fiction writer
pandemic is in my work I'm a queer black
woman in whose moved to America
so all of these issues are there the I
was recently involved in a project
started by black of American are artists
that came out on Juneteenth with a
statement of what we would like to see
from our institutions as well as a
centering series of questions about what
would black treat him look like mm-hmm
I'm a I was chagrined it how hard it was
to imagine black freedom but those five
statements you can find they begin with
divesting from police they begin with
hiring more of us they begin with
getting educated their fire very simple
demands we are making of all of our
institutions
so that's the thing that you can find
referred to teach from I feel like I'm
so steeped in the work of people working
on these very issues I mean there's a
bunch of us right here on the chat that
it's easy to find for me to find that
work and if you're affiliated with the
UCR or just just ask us I would also say
like in Cajun oven
I've been lovin farm sectors so but also
you know the front sector is a DC comic
that is a black woman who is a former
police police person who gets fired
because she basically was going to she
testifies against a partner who you know
who was using extra force against a
black man and she ends up becoming a
Green Lantern at the age the universe I
think is the galaxy yeah also this the
city the city we became yes
okay Jameson's work and also nnedi
okorafor is work LaGuardia you know
which is about immigration issues
African African futurist graphic novel
and also like I said the work of Victor
Laval who it is really wonderful what I
call race craft an ATAR piece because
it's called The Ballad of black Tom and
it's like a remix of HP Lovecraft's or a
different perspective his his book his
story the whore at Red Hook and I would
also recommend his graphic novel
destroyer which is a to a certain degree
it would like the black class matter
movement but through the lens of like
Frankenstein yeah and and equally so
many I just read an MP and it Jemison
script story actually that yesterday and
it's it's only way I can think of
describing it is its Katrina Punk you've
got a Katrina Oh was it Katrina Baskar
it's it's called
good
sinners Saints Saints sinners and haints
in the city beneath the still Watchers
yes
yeah just like the guys like stuck on
sorry yes yes that one no seriously yeah
but those are just a few you know but
there's so much I mean that's why I feel
like Comic Con what do you start
everybody's I mean you know we're in the
middle of what some people call the
blacks pickle of Arts Movement
you know where it's like yeah the notion
of like black speculation and you know
politics and the the fighting for our
past and that future through narrative
and through different types of critical
making is it's a foot so to speak you
know an actual like piece of your body
but like you know Sherlock Holmes yeah
yeah and person asking the question was
also asking how it connected to
indigeneity which is very much related a
tangent to what I do so the work of
people like grace Dylan has been
collecting stories and films by First
Nations artists all around the world and
bringing them to the Academy is so vital
the stories like what's the clever man
oh I got to meet the director I fangirl
so bad so clever man talking about said
made in set in Australia and is talking
about Aboriginal ways of knowing any
sense fiction and also talking about you
know reserves and people moved into
reserves and having to live their lives
they're beautiful beautiful TV show and
it's I mean it's so exciting that this
question we could basically take all our
time with it because there's so many
people creating great work
very inspired to see that in addition to
you coming up with more and more names
in the chat people were like adding more
names to so that all the energy is
fantastic to see so um we're near we're
actually at the end of the time but I
did say I was gonna like announce last
question so are we willing to stay
around and do one more question
it's not already done we're supposed to
do 20 minutes of questions right so but
if you will around Cheryl it's
absolutely it's only 510 second so we
have plenty of time left so let's let's
aim for about 5 25 25 okay
others have about a five-minute wrap-up
I think that's awesome question but I
did see scroll by me one of the things
the child was with other you'd be
working on be interested in
collaborating on a screenplay adaptation
of the turbos books which i think is
something this world urgently needs so
if someone is really in a position to
get that project green I think yeah that
would be wonderful but it's under the
purview of the estate
I mean honestly so you know that they're
I mean those the rights to most of her
Butler's work has already been people
are working on things because you know
that there's a Wow see you know TV
showing you know so all this stuff is in
development probably I don't know is I'm
not privy to that we're just working on
notebooks but that would be wonderful I
want to see it yeah it's not my rodeo
not my steer brilliant and
how she not only so for sauces so much
about what we're now living through but
she got the dates look like really
uncannily yeah no it's terrifying is
only terrifying and have to visualize
that thank you we still know that's and
make America great again
I just noticed how we're doing that that
that mark Derry who came up with the
concept of afrofuturism is here on the
chat questions thanks so our next
question is actually we're lucky because
a version of it came up in both the chat
and in the previous submitted questions
slightly different but I think similar
enough so you could answer answer them
together so one version was sort of
asking about teaching um let me just
make sure I'm getting us right teaching
kindred yeah teaching kindred and
wondering about any pointers or thoughts
you had about teaching the graphic
adaptation versus teaching the original
novel and then another similar question
came up that just was asking for your
thoughts on differences between working
in the two media and and so I guess the
affordances of both working on graphic
works versus working on prose text so no
that's uh that's a lot because like the
idea of affordances is something that it
definitely like the formal aspects of
how language and pacing and visual
aspects of a story are very different in
a comic you know there's inherent so
real nature to comics that I think we
kind of lean into you know everything in
a comic book can be used as a
storytelling mechanism from the borders
to the thought balloons to the sound
effects you know everything has a
particular you know the form itself
actually as part of the story making if
that makes any sense like we have metal
panels it does things we try to fake
focus on things that that pro
can't do you know as far as that or
don't do as well so to speak because
comics are like this kind of hybrid
medium that is like a distant cousin to
film and distant cousin to prose it's
not exactly you know an illustrated book
either you know it's just weird amalgam
of a lot different things and it's a
symbol based language in visual language
so it yes I would you know if you're
teaching for instance like visual
literacy or like Media Studies or
comparative literature definitely like
you know reading the book as opposed to
how time is different in kindred is very
is very amazing for instance and this is
something that we limit all the time
kindred is that you don't know that Dana
is african-american until like page 33
or something of the original book right
you don't even know when she figures out
that she's time-traveling that's when
you realize that she's in a hell of a
lot of trouble the same tell you look
because he drops to embalm he drops in
word you like wait what she's black this
just became a horror story you know I'm
saying and you just we by any means
necessary
you know so that's that's a very
different you know you can't do that
with comics because as soon as you meet
Dana and Kevin you know when they're
unpacking their boxes obviously she's a
she's a black poet right so we have to
like that's one aspect of storytelling
that is so brilliant and then you know
Damien talks about this all the time
like the stakes are so evident you know
with that you know which is pretty
awesome what's the other teaching so
that's about teaching and also making
making graphic novels are very very
difficult
do not do it do not try to sit home okay
it's so hard but if you like long-form
crown is are just so difficult you know
and it had like the the weight of
Octavia Butler's legacy and her fans on
your shoulders is you know it's a lot
you know well we could talk more about
that I don't want to harm to court you
know harm to time and now I do some
thoughts about this one that's a more
like a John thing
I have taught the graphic novel of
parable and of kindred and in our you
know 10 weeks to put the graphic novel
and the novel together I think could be
there on just one course looking at the
differences even the little bit air raid
from parable there were there was a
section where there were two narratives
happening both from Laura Lauren and I
was trying to pull them apart to make
them more legible it's easier to do that
in prose the graphic graphic novel form
does it in in complex ways that the key
you by how the panels are designed I
know the shape of the balloons that kind
of thing but to try and translate it
into something that's just words was so
tough and I could see it right there in
the page it was easy but trying to
translate it so it brought me back to
what the challenges must have been for
the two of you making the story adapting
the story yeah it's always fun to teach
parable here in Southern California this
is really odd because students just they
get it yeah because you know you I moved
from Buffalo New York here and then you
know to actually be in the space where a
lot of this happened I mean like there's
a there's a kid who's from Riverside in
parallel or talents I keep saying that
over that's wow you know so I was
actually able to use the pallet of the
area in the colors you know and kind of
yeah and that's really beautiful you'd
adopted it while you're in this region
actually Testament I appreciate that I'm
very grateful for the opportunity please
never think that I'm not you know I'm
saying I'm very grateful but man you
know that is not I'm happy
nothing happy it's again no it's it's
bad things it's definitely a port is
about is a warning too
do not go down this path child and it's
coming up with some light easy we are so
naughty you're being so sarcastic
I think the thing is that that the terms
are always going to be the reality of
what they're trying to point that is
always going to be bigger than the terms
themselves I mean even in straight-up
science fiction community we're still
arguing over Sense fiction fantasy
speculative fiction and what do the
terms mean so for me as someone who
tends to move towards fantasy I write
science fiction as well using the term I
for futurism I think it does have room
for me in it but when you look at the
actual word futurism in there
it doesn't necessarily seem to point to
my work so I'm always doing that
straddling of the difference the the gap
in signifier you're always going to have
between the term and what it's pointing
at I don't have any concrete thoughts
about that except I think that gap is a
productive one so
as far as like is difficult for me too
okay
afro surrealism you know which was
originally coined by I want to say a
Mary Baraka when he was writing about
Henry Dumas his work you know if it
would be comical surrealist
expressionist and I want to say that D
Scott Miller's work around afro
surrealism actually have kind of this
fine
a lot of that and if you look at some of
that some of the extrapolations of like
afro surrealism some of it actually does
map very easily onto how we're looking
at you know what some people have
features in 2.0 what have you but novels
absolutely right there's different like
formal qualities that actually kind of
you know bounce off of each other I mean
even even like the the crime writer
Chester Himes said that black experience
is surreal you know I'm I'm a paraphrase
I just like you said something like you
know black black life is so strange to
the point where it's very it's just
surreal you know and so the idea is like
trying to take the the idea of the
strangeness of black identity and
merging it with them now you know I'm
saying and actually true so is talking
about just the radical difference
between what it means to be black in
America and something else right far as
like afro pessimism goes I think some of
my work does dip his toe into the afro
pessimism or something some of the what
I call the ethnographic or the darker
aspects of the work that I work on I
think for me though I think more about
catharsis you know as far as like how
like the horrors and the pessimistic
attitudes about what it means to be
under colonial state in colonial space
or in oppressive space I want to try to
get past those things and get to the fo
feature I think about afro future as a
destination and not necessarily a you
know designations of you know the
semantics about what it is I think
everybody who's working on these
particular projects or thinking about
you know reclaiming black pasts and
looking at black futures you know I
think that we all have that in common
and it's you know and we can argue about
it we got it we're going to that's what
we do in the Academy we make up make up
words and we we definitely find we argue
about that's that's our job you know but
at the end of the day I feel surreal
I think you know F no graphic folk black
horror whatever this speculative was
trying to speculate a better space for
us you know because again we're trying
to get past this moment one way or the
other you know yeah and I think that's
those are some things about my work
definitely intersects with darker
subjects a lot of times but you know I
got a little piece of the Afro future
he's the one he's one year one years old
and I can't afford to be pessimistic
anymore I think as an instructor that
you know in our little grab-bag about
you know a long with like theory and all
these different things we work through
in a classroom we have to have hope you
know without hope we might as well just
go and jump off a really tall building
right I mean you know I'm saying so it's
like yeah I can't get down with being
pessimistic about about the work because
as long as I have life then there's hope
right yeah I think the dangers and
confusing pessimism with the realism
because sure a pessimist trying to
survive through what we have wrought has
been wrought upon us but yeah there's
got to be some way to move to keep that
to move along with it do not deny its
existence but to to look through and
beyond and with it all at the same time
so I mean I think I've washed my answer
totally and dearies going to be judging
me and as John you convinced me the
needs like keep hope so yeah trying to
man you know I'm working on it this is a
question that came from the paid ones
and it is if you could take one science
fiction book to a desert island which
would it be oh man that is man
firstly I'm gonna desert Ellen
now would I be there I am congenitally
unable to choose between two
alternatives I always have an answer to
which book and it's dog lady why are you
man that's a good question I don't know
man
I'm thinking something like you know
faces at the bottom of the well or like
the Invisible Man you know something
like that because because you know race
is science fiction right it's not real
you know so so I've been I've been kind
of wrestling with the idea that you know
writing about race is like writing about
like you know by our different types of
sci-fi sci-fi things because it's a
construct it's not really real and then
we actually create these narratives
about it so that I just made the
question more difficult I'm failing at
this I don't know all right thank you
it was fantastic and what a great way to
end so it's been such an honor to share
this space with you and to also have
everybody who joined us and we really
appreciate you taking
your time and you've been such a great
audience this chat thing is just hot
you know it's dipping by so I also want
to say that we want to welcome you again
in case you didn't get enough of us for
our next session in this series which
will be held August 6 and it will
feature dr. Clifford Trapster
reading from his latest book fighting
invisible enemies health and medical
transitions among Southern California
Indians published by the University of
Oklahoma press in 2019 and there's still
more that session will be followed by a
presentation on October 8 highlighting
the work a professor Stuart Krieger
entitled what if professor Stuart
Krieger and professor Aerith Jaffe Berg
discussed Kriegers counterfactual
history novel that one cigarette so more
information about these events and
invitations will be forthcoming and
thank you all so much John no way so
thank you
you
