>> THE WORLD IS NEITHER FLAT NOR
BINARY, NOR FINITE.
BLACK AND WHITE LIE SEPARATED BY
COUNTLESS SHADES OF GRAY.
FROM OUR UNIQUE POINTS OF VIEW, 
WE BEGIN TO UNDERSTAND THE WORLD
BY ADDING THE VIEWS OF OTHERS.
THEIR KNOWLEDGE.
THEIR EXPERIENCE.
THEIR IDEAS.
THEIR STORIES AND ART.
THEIR FAILURES AND TRIUMPHS.
TONIGHT, THE WE EXPAND OUR WORLD
VIEW BY ADDING DEPTH TO OUR 
UNDERSTANDING.
DIMENSION TO SOMEONE KNOWN ONLY 
FROM AFAR.
PERSPECTIVE TO OUR PAST.
AND A FEW PLACES WE'VE NEVER 
BEEN.
TOGETHER, WE SET OUT TO CHANGE 
THE WORLD.
SIMPLY BY CHANGING THE WAY WE 
LOOK AT THE WORLD.
WELCOME TO RICHMOND FORUM.
TONIGHT, ON THE FIRST FULL DAY 
OF THE NEW ADMINISTRATION, WE 
SEEK PERSPECTIVE BY TAKING A 
LONG VIEW OF AMERICA'S 
FIRST-TERM PRESIDENTS WITH 
ACCLAIMED HISTORIANS AND OUR 
MODERATOR, STEVE INSKI.
WELCOME.
>> IT IS WONDERFUL TO BE WITH 
YOU TONIGHT BECAUSE YESTERDAY, I
WAS IN WASHINGTON, D.C. AND 
COVERED THE INAUGURATION.
AND HAD A SEAT OVERLOOKING THE 
PLATFORM, SO I GOT TO SEE THE 
FORMER PRESIDENTS, THE CURRENT 
PRESIDENT ABOUT TO BE THE 
EX-PRESIDENT, THE 
PRESIDENT-ELECT ABOUT TO BE THE 
PRESIDENT, ALL OF THEM SHAKING 
HANDS, TOUCH ELBOWS AND WORK THE
ROOM A LITTLE BIT.
I'M TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF WHAT
ON EARTH HAPPENED AS I THINK 
MANY OF THE REST OF US ARE.
THIS HAS BEEN AN ASTONISHING 
ELECTION.
I'D LIKE TO BEGIN ABOUT WHAT 
IT'S BEEN LIKE TO WATCH THIS 
LAST YEAR AND A HALF.
THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT FELT 
DISLOCATED AS IF SOMETHING IS 
HAPPENING THAT NEVER HAPPENED 
BEFORE.
WHAT'S HAPPENING TO US?  
>> PEOPLE WILL ASK YOU, HOW DID 
WE GET TRUMP?
AS IF I'M GOING TO KNOW BUT I 
THINK THERE IS -- YOU KNOW, 
RIGHT?
JUST SAY WELL -- 
>> WELL.
THAT LOOKING BACK TO THE TURN OF
THE CENTURY, YOU CAN SEE WHY THE
ANXIETY AND ANGER AND FEAR 
ALLOWED A POPULIST MESSAGE, I 
THINK, TO GET THROUGH.
YOU HAD THE ECONOMY UP ENDED AND
ALL SORTS OF INVENTIONS SPEEDING
UP LIVE.
PEOPLE FELT LIKE THE CITIES WERE
TAKING THEM OVER.
THERE WAS LOTS OF IMMIGRATION 
FROM ABROAD AND YOU HAD 
POPULISM.
IT'S IN A PROTEST MOVEMENT AND 
DIDN'T MAKE ITS WAY AS THIS ONE 
DID INTO A MAJOR PARTY.
WHAT WE SEE TODAY IS A 
TECHNOLOGICAL REVOLUTION.
IMMIGRATION.
PEOPLE IN THE RURAL AREAS 
SEPARATED OFF FROM THE CITY.
SO THAT SAME MIX, I THINK 
ALLOWED TRUMP TO BECOME THE 
NOMINEE.
THE SAME SHIFT WON'T HAVE WORKED
BECAUSE IN THE OLD DAYS THE 
POLITICIANS USED TO CHOOSE WHO 
WAS AT THE CONVENTIONS AND THEY 
CHOSE THEMSELVES.
GOVERNORS, SENATORS AND MAYORS. 
>> THERE WEREN'T VM -- VERY MANY
DELEGATES. 
>> UNLESS THERE WAS A MILITARY 
CHARACTER AROUND, THEY'D CHOOSE 
A FELLOW POLITICIAN.
IF THAT WERE TRUE NOW THERE IS 
NO WAY DONALD TRUMP WOULD HAVE 
BEEN CHOSEN BY THE POLITICIANS.
THE PRIMARIES WERE STARTED BY MY
GUY, TEDDY ROOSEVELT.
IT WAS HIS FAULT.
THE GUY I LIVED WITH EIGHT 
YEARS. 
>> IT'S YOUR FAULT. 
>> IT'S MY FAULT. 
>> IN 1912 HE WANTS TO RUN 
AGAINST TAFT.
BUT TAFT IS THE PRESIDENT 
SITTING THERE.
REALLY SITTING THERE.
AND HE HAS, HE HAS CONTROL OF 
THE PARTY MACHINERY.
SO TEDDY IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN 
GET THE NOMINATION IS TO HAVE A 
PRIMARY SYSTEM.
SO HE STARTS A CRUSADE.
LET THE PEOPLE DECIDE.
13 PRIMARIES ARE CREATED.
TAFT STILL HAS PARTY MACHINERY.
TAFT WINS THE ELECTION AND SOME 
REPUBLICAN SENATOR SAID NOW THE 
ONLY QUESTION IF RUNNING AGAINST
EACH OTHER IS WHICH PORT IS 
GOING TO GET THE MOST FLOWERS 
AND WOOD ROW WILSON WINS.
THEY COME BACK IN, AND IN THE 
50s, 60s, AND 70s AND TODAY.
AND SO THE PEOPLE SPOKE AND 
RESPONDED TO MAKE AMERICA GREAT 
AGAIN.
THE MESSAGE OF ANTI-IMMIGRATION 
AND FREE TRADE, ETC. 
>> SO YOU HEAR RESONANCES OF THE
PAST AS DIFFERENT AS IT MAY SEEM
TO SOME OF US NOW.
>> WHEN DORIS AND I TRIED TO ASK
QUESTIONS TO OUR DEAD SUBJECTS 
PEOPLE GET WORRIED.
>> I REMEMBER TALKING.
ELEANOR, JUST FORGET HE HAD AN 
AFFAIR AND JUST BE NICER TO HER.
>> MORE GOSSIP ABOUT DEAD 
PEOPLE.
>> DORIS'S LIFE IS THE SHINING 
MEETS C-SPAN.
>> IT'S IMPOSSIBLE. 
>> WE DO INTERVENTIONS.
I DO.
I WAS WRONG ABOUT TRUMP.
I THOUGHT WE'RE ENTERING A 
MOMENT LIKE THE FAMOUS ESSAY 
PUBLISHED AT THE COVER STORY IN 
HARPER'S MAGAZINE IN OCTOBER, 
1964.
IN WHICH HOFFSTED AND CONSPIRACY
THEORYS AS JEFFERSON THOUGHT 
HAMILTON WAS TRYING TO SELL US 
OUT TO THE BRITISH.
AND THE MESSAGE TO JEFFERSON, 
MEET ME OUT BACK.
JUST MY LUCK, IT'S THE OTHER 
GUY.
>> GOVERNOR CHRIS CHRISTIE OF 
NNL ENGINEER CALLED AND ASKED ME
SWEETLY TO COME TO LUNCH IN 
TRENTON TO TALK ABOUT JEFFERSON.
HAPPY TO DO IT HE SAID I'M MORE 
OF A HAMILTONIN.
I SAID THAT IS GREAT, BUT MY GUY
DIDN'T GET SHOT IN JERSEY.
THE DAMNEDEST THING HAPPENED.
I COULDN'T GET BACK INTO THE 
CITY.
SO ANYWAY.
>> SEE HOW LEARNED THIS AUDIENCE
IS?
ALL OF THESE STORIES, YOU GET 
THEM.
>> THAT WAS BEFORE GOVERNOR 
CHRIS CHRISTIE BECAME PATTY 
HEARST.
SO.
BACK TO RICHARD HOFFSTEDER. 
>> 1964, OCTOBER.
PARANOID STYLE.
>> YOU HAVE THESE MOMENTS WHERE 
THERE IS A SENSE FROM A 
DISPOSSESSED PART OF THE PUBLIC 
THAT BELIEVES THAT THIS IS TO 
USE A CURRENT PHRASE, RIGGED 
AGAINST THEM.
BAVARIAN ILLUMINATI OF THE EARLY
REPUBLIC TO THE JOHN HEARST 
SOCIETY IN 1964 WHICH IS WHAT 
THE OCCASION WAS.
AND WHAT TENDS TO HAPPEN IS THAT
THIS PARANOID ENERGY, THIS 
POPULIST ENERGY GETS ABSORBED BY
THE MAJOR PARTY USUALLY BEFORE 
IT CAN GET TOO FAR OUT OF 
CONTROL.
SO GEORGE WALLACE, THE 
REPUBLICANS TOOK THAT ENERGY 
AWAY FROM HIM.
THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, FRANKLY, 
WHEN IT WAS A PARTY OF 
SEGREGATIONISTS TOOK THIS ENERGY
AWAY FROM STROM THURMOND WHO RAN
IN 1948.
ROSS PERO, YOU KNOW THERE IS A 
LITTLE MORE POPULISM.
THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN THIS TIME.
TO SOME EXTENT, TRUMP'S TRIUMPH 
WAS THE FIRST REPORTED CASE OF A
HIJACKER BOARDING A PLANE, 
HAVING PASSENGER SIDE WITHIN.
>> DO YOU MAKE THESE THINGS UP?
>> IT REALLY IS.
TO ME, IT'S LESS BROADLY 
HISTORICAL.
TWO NUMBERS EXPLAIN WHY DONALD 
TRUMP BECAME PRESIDENT OF THE 
UNITED STATES YESTERDAY.
ONE IS 17.
WHEN DORIS'S FRIEND LYNDON 
JOHNSON WAS PRESIDENT IN 1965, 
77% OF AMERICAN PEOPLE TRUSTED 
THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT.
77.
TODAY, THAT NUMBER IS 17%.
SECOND NUMBER IS 130,000.
$130,000 IS WHAT JOE BIDEN'S 
MIDDLE CLASS TASK FORCE SAID WAS
THE HOUSEHOLD INCOME NEEDED TO 
LIVE A CLASSIC POST WORLD WAR II
MIDDLE CLASS LIFE.
IN THIS COUNTRY, HOUSEHOLD 
INCOME IS $55,700.
IN THAT MISSING GAP, OF BOTH 
TRUST AND INCOME, YOU HAD 
GASOLINE ON THE FLOOR AND IN 
THIS REMARKABLE CULTURAL FIGURE,
REMEMBER, TRUMP IS A CULTURAL 
FIGURE.
NOT A POLITICAL ONE, FIRST.
HE IS THE MATCH THAT WENT ON THE
FLOOR.
AND THAT IS WHAT WE'RE LIVING 
WITH.
>> WE'VE RESOLVED THE WHOLE 
PROBLEM.
WE'RE GOING TO GO NOW. 
>> THANK YOU, I REALLY 
APPRECIATE THAT.
I APPRECIATE THOSE INSIGHTS.
WE'RE SITTING HERE TRYING TO PUT
PRESIDENT TRUMP INTO HISTORICAL 
CONTEXT.
DO YOU THINK THAT PRESIDENT 
TRUMP HAS A DEEP APPRECIATION OF
HISTORY?
>> WELL -- 
>> THANK YOU FOR COMING.
>> THERE HAVE BEEN RECENT 
ARTICLES SAYING THAT HE DOESN'T 
REALLY READ HISTORY AND DOESN'T 
READ A LOT.
TEDDY ROOSEVELT SAID BOOKS ARE 
THE GREATEST COMPANIONS.
YOU UNDERSTAND HUMAN NATURE IN 
PART HAIRY TRUMAN NEVER WENT TO 
COLLEGE BUT HE READ HISTORY.
YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE BY READING 
ABOUT THE PEOPLE THAT WENT 
BEFORE AND THEIR STRUGGLE THAT'S
YOU'RE GOING TO LEARN SOMETHING.
YOU'RE GOING TO GROW FROM THAT 
JUST AS WE GROW FROM OUR PARENTS
AND GRANDPARENTS, YOU HOPEFULLY 
GROW FROM IT AND DON'T HAVE TO 
START OVER AGAIN.
THE OTHER DAY THERE WAS A 
PICTURE OF TRUMP'S DESK.
THIS SURPRISED MY, UNTIL, I'LL 
TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED.
THERE WAS MAGAZINES ON THERE AND
TWO COPIES OF THE NEW BOOK 
"UNPREDICTABLE" AND UNDERNEATH, 
TEAM OF RIVALS.
A REPORTER SAYS THIS IS 
EXCITING.
HE SAID SOMEONE GAVE IT TO HIM 
AS A GIFT BUT HE'S NOT ACTIVELY 
READING IT.
JUST TO BE FAIR TO HIM. 
>> HE DOES READ HISTORY.
THERE ARE 30 YEARS OF MAGAZINE 
COVERS. 
>> ON THE DESK. 
>> WITH HIS FACE.
30 YEARS.
THAT IS A LOT OF HISTORY. 
>> I WAS GOING TO SAY TO BE FAIR
TO HIM, HE SAYS HE LEARNS RATHER
THROUGH CONVERSATION.
IN THE PRESIDENCY HE RAN MOSTLY 
MYSTERIES AT NIGHT.
HE DIDN'T READ A LOT OF BOOKS 
DURING HIS TIME BUT HE WAS ABLE 
TO ABSORB CONVERSATIONS WITH 
PEOPLE.
THAT IS HOW HE LEARNED.
HE WAS A GREAT QUESTIONER.
PEOPLE ARE TALKING TO HIM AND 
GIVING HIM INFORMATION AND HAVE 
EXPERTS IN THE FIELD THAT HE CAN
LEARN FROM THEM. 
>> I WENT TO SEE MR. TRUMP.
LAST MAY TO TALK ABOUT JUST 
THIS.
AND WENT TO TRUMP TOWER.
HE WAS VERY GRACIOUS.
IT WAS LIKE AN ADMIRAL MARY 
POPPINS.
HE HAD A HAT AND FIRING OFF 
CANNONS.
SITTING BEHIND THE DESK AND 
THERE ARE GOLF TROPHIES 
EVERYWHERE.
I RECOGNIZE THOSE BECAUSE I HAVE
NONE.
AND THERE ARE THE OLD MAGAZINE 
COVERED, FRAMED AND COVERS OF 
HIS THAT ARE ALL OVER.
THIS IS A -- REALLY -- HE 
DOESN'T READ HISTORY.
BUT HIS BASIC VIEW IS, AND HE 
SAID IT THIS AFTERNOON VISITING 
GEORGE HW BUSH CENTER OF 
INTELLIGENCE AT LANGLY WHEN HE 
WENT TO SEE THE CIA TODAY HE'S A
SMART PERSON.
HE BELIEVES HE IS INTELLECTUALLY
EQUIPPED, LARGELY BY INSTINCT, 
TO DO THIS JOB.
AND IF YOU DO WHAT WE DO FOR A 
LIVING, THAT SEEMS UNLIKELY.
HIS POINT, WHICH IS A PURE 
POPULIST VIEW IS IF THE EXPERTS 
WERE SO SMART, WHY WON'T THE 
WORLD BE IN BETTER SHAPE?
IF THE PEOPLE WHO READ HISTORY 
WERE SO WELL INFORMED WHY DO WE 
HAVE THAT INCOME GAP?
WHY DO WE HAVE A SITUATION IN 
THE MIDDLE EAST THAT WE HAVE?
SO WHY DON'T YOU BELIEVE SOMEONE
WHO BELIEVES, JUST TOTALLY LIVES
IN THE MOMENT.
I NEVER MET A PERSON THAT LIVES 
IN THE MOMENT LIKE THIS.
IT'S CABLE NEWS, WHATEVER COMES 
ACROSS TWITTER.
LIKE AN OPEN SYNAPSE.
AND WE HAVE TO SOME EXTENT 
RESPECT THE FACT THE RIGHT 
NUMBER OF VOTERS MADE THIS 
DECISION.
SO HE SAYS STONE WALL JACKSON 
HAD BEEN IN CHARGE INSTEAD OF 
GENERAL LEE.
SORRY.
YOU KNOW?
WOULD THAT HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT?
WHAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IF 
FOREST HAS BEEN UNLEASHED MORE.
AND HE TOLD ME HE ONCE CANCELLED
A GOLF MATCH BECAUSE THERE WAS A
MARATHON ON OF KEN'S CIVIL WAR.
AND IF YOU KNOW TRUMP IT'S 
PRETTY MUCH THE ULTIMATE 
SACRIFICE.
I CALLED HIM BACK TO SEE IF 
THERE IS ANYTHING.
HAVE YOU READ DORIS AND READ 
DAVID McCULLAUH?
HE TOLD ME HE READ BILL 
O'REILLY'S BOOKS.
>> THAT IS THE ASSASSINATION 
BOOKS. 
>> YES.
THE KILLING BOOKS.
HE READ A BOOK ABOUT THE RISE OF
ISIS AND ONE NEGATIVE PARTISAN 
BOOK ABOUT HITLER.
THAT IS IT.
HE BELIEVES HE'S A NATURAL.
HE COMPARED HIMSELF TO LYDIA KO 
SAYING SHE WAS ONCE ASKED ON A 
GOLF CHANNEL INTERVIEW, WHAT 
YOUR SWING THOUGHTS?
SHE SAID I DON'T KNOW, I JUST 
SWING.
AND COMPARED TO BABE RUTH, HEY, 
BABE, HOW DO YOU HIT THE LONG 
BALL?
HE REPLIED I DON'T KNOW, I JUST 
SWING AT IT.
THAT IS ME.
HE REPEATED THOSE POINTS IN 
INTERVIEWS.
WE HAVE MOVED IN THE TYPICAL 
AMERICAN WAY OF MOVING FROM ONE 
GUARDRAIL TO ANOTHER AND HAVE 
MOSTED FROM THE MOST 
INTELLECTUAL PRESIDENT, 
CERTAINLY, I WOULD ARGUE, SINCE 
JEFFERSON SO VALIDLY THE LEAST 
INTELLECTUAL PRESIDENT YOU CAN 
IMAGINE.
HE WOULD ACCEPT THAT AND SAY 
YES.
>> THAT IS A GOOD THING.
YES. 
>> ARE WE STILL WITHIN THE 
GUARDRAILS?
>> WHAT WORRIES ME IS THAT IT 
WAS ONE THING DURING THE 
CAMPAIGN.
HE'D GET ANGRY WITH SOMEBODY TO 
BE ABLE TO PUT OUT TWEETS THAT 
COARSENED DIALOGUE TERRIBLY.
IF THAT CONTINUES YOU'RE GOING 
TO HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO MANAGE 
AND STRESSFUL TIMES, YOUR 
NEGATIVE EMOTIONS.
UNLESS HE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY 
TO DO THAT IF HE TWEETS OUT 
ANGRY THINGS DIALOGUE OF THE 
COUNTRY COULD GET US OVER THOSE 
GUARDRAILS.
I MEAN, I KEEP WISHING HE CAN 
HAVE A FAKE TWITTER ACCOUNT.
WHENEVER FEELING GOOD, HE COULD 
BE THE REAL ONE AND HE'LL TALK 
TO HIS PEOPLE AND IT WILL BE 
GREAT.
LINCOLN HAD THIS HOT LETTER 
THING HE WOULD DO.
HE WOULD WRITE A LETTER AND PUT 
IT ASIDE AND NEVER SEND IT.
AND SO UPSET HE WROTE A LONG 
LETTER SAYING YOU DIDN'T DO WHAT
WE ASKED YOU TO DO.
THE WAR COULD HAVE BEEN OVER 
SOON.
HE KNEW IT WOULD PARALYZE THE 
GENERAL IN THE FIELD.
THEN, UNDERNEATH NOTATION, NEVER
SENT, NEVER SIGNED AND LINCOLN 
DID THAT REGULARLY.
WHEN ROOS FELT CAME IN, A YOUNG 
SPEECH WRITER CAME IN SAYING 
HORRIBLE THINGS ABOUT SOME 
ISOLATIONIST SAYING IF YOU'RE 
GOING TO DO THAT, HE SAID DON'T 
WORRY.
SECOND DRAFT IS THERE.
HE GOT IT OUT OF HIS SYSTEM.
I INTERVIEWED PRESIDENT OBAMA 
FOR AN EXIT INTERVIEW WITH 
"VANITY FAIR" I WAS TELLING HIM 
ABOUT LINCOLN'S HOT LETTERS AND 
SAID DO YOU THINK OF DOING THAT?
HE SAID I DO IT ALL THE TIME.
I SAID I'M WRITING THINGS DOWN 
AND LETTERS TO THE PEOPLE AND I 
CRUMPEL THEM UP AND PUT THEM IN 
THE WASTE BASKET.
THAT SHOWS SELF REFLECTION AND 
AWARENESS OF YOUR WEAKNESSES AND
THAT YOU UNDERSTAND YOU HAVE TO 
HAVE A GOVERNOR ON YOUR SELF.
CONQUERING YOURSELF IS PROBABLY 
THE MOST-IMPORTANT THING.
UNLESS HE CAN, I WORRY ABOUT 
WHERE THESE GUARDRAILS MIGHT BE.
>> ONE EXPLANATION FOR WATER 
GATE IS THAT NIXON SAID GO BOMB 
BROOKINGS OR KILL DEMOCRATS OR 
WHATEVER HE SAID AFTER A COUPLE 
SIPS OF SCOTCH, YOU'RE, HR'S JOB
WAS JUST NOT TO DO ANYTHING. 
>> RIGHT. 
>> THERE IS A THEORY THAT JUST. 
>> THIS IS HENRY KISSIN GER'S 
FAMOUS LINE.
AND YOU'RE REMINDING ME, I WISH 
I CAN REMEMBER WHICH COMEDIAN, 
BUT TRUMP WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT
TWITTER THEN DISCOVER TWEETS 
WERE PUBLIC.
I'D LIKE TO BRING ANOTHER 
PRESIDENT INTO THE PICTURE, 
YOU'RE A BIOGRAPHER OF ANDREW 
JACKSON.
WHAT DID YOU THINK WHEN PEOPLE 
BEGAN MAKING THE COMPARISON 
BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND ANDREW 
JACKSON?
>> WELL, THERE IS THE HAIR.
>> THE MOMENT IS JACKSONIN.
JACKSON WAS THE FIRST AMERICAN 
PRESIDENT NOT A VIRGINIA PLANTER
OR ADAMS FROM MASSACHUSETTS.
HENRY CLAY COINED THE PHRASE 
"SELF MADE MAN" IN THE AGE OF 
JACKSON.
HE WAS THAT.
FROM THE LOWEST REACHES OF WHITE
SOCIETY, HE WAS AN ORPHAN, HE 
LOST HIS MOTHER AND BROTHERS IN 
THE REVOLUTION.
AND WHEN HE CAME TO WASHINGTON 
IN 1929, HOWEVER, HE CAME AS A 
FORMER SENATOR, JUDGE, FORMER 
PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.
SOMEONE, WHO, AS DORIS IS JUST 
SAYING UNDERSTOOD HIS OWN 
WEAKNESSES.
HE UNDERSTAND HE HAD A TEMPER.
HE HAD TWO BULLETS LONLED IN HIM
WHEN HE TOOK THE OATH OF OFFICE.
ONE KEY THING ABOUT JACKSON IS 
TO REMEMBER IS IN THOSE DUELS HE
FIRED THE SECOND SHOT.
>> DID HE ASSUME THEY WON'T BE 
GOOD SHOTS?
>> OR WILLING TO TAKE THE PAIN. 
>> HE WANTED TO MAKE SURE HE 
KILLED THE OTHER GUY. 
>> ONE MOMENT IS THIS BOOT 
FILLED WITH BLOOD AS HE KILLED A
MAN, JOHN DICTINSON WHO ATTACKED
HIS WIFE, RACHEL.
THE ATTACK WAS TRUE.
TO ME, GREAT STORY ABOUT JACKSON
THAT SEPARATES IT FROM THE 
TRUMP, JACKSONIN COMPARISONS 
WHICH BY THE WAY ARE RECENT, IN 
THAT INTERVIEW, I DID WITH HIM, 
JACKSON NEVER CAME UP.
IF MENTIONING HIM, HE WOULD HAVE
THOUGHT I WAS TALKING ABOUT 
REGGIE.
I DON'T THINK WE WOULD HAVE HAD 
A LOT OF -- A LOT THERE.
>> WHAT ARE THE PARALLELS 
BETWEEN DONALD TRUMP AND REGGIE 
JACKSON?
>> SO I THINK THAT JACKSON IN 
WINTER 1832, 33 WE HAD A SHE 
DOWN WITH SOUTH CAROLINA.
AND I KNEW THAT. 
>> JACKSONIN. 
>> YOU KNOW, STEVE CALHOUN HAD 
BEEN HIS VICE PRESIDENT.
JACKSON SAID HIS RECRUITS IS 
THAT HE HAD NOT HUNG HENRY CLAY 
AND SHOT JOHN C CALHOUN, NOBODY 
FELT THAT WAY ABOUT THE VICE 
PRESIDENT AGAIN UNTIL JOHN 
MCCAIN.
SO THIS IS A FREE ONE.
IT'S A FREE ONE.
OKAY?
THAT IS JUST A FREEBIE ON 
INAUGURATION WEEKEND.
SOUTH CAROLINA WANTED THE RIGHT 
TO NULL YI FI FEDERAL LAW.
JACKSON POUNDED THE DESK.
THREATENED, I'LL HANG THE FIRST 
NULL FIEER.
I'LL WALK INTO SOUTH CAROLINA 
WITH 10,000 MEN.
YOUR GOVERNOR SIDED WITH 
JACKSON.
SO, HE'S MAKING ALL OF THE RIGHT
NOISES ABOUT WAR LIFE, FITTING, 
PLAYING THE TYPE.
YOU KNOW, AMERICAN BONAPRTE.
WHAT IS HE DOING ALL NIGHT?
WRITING LETTERS TO HIS MAN ON 
THE GROUND SAYING WHATEVER YOU 
DO, DON'T MAKE THE FIRST MOVE.
IF THERE IS TO BE CIVIL WAR, WE 
CAN NOT BE AGGRESSOR.
HE WAS MANAGING AND MARSHALLING 
HIS TEMPER TO GET TO THE RIGHT 
PLACE AND WE GOT TO THE RIGHT 
PLACE.
HE GAVE US 30 YEARS TO FORM WHAT
IS CALLED MYSTIC BOARDS OF 
MEMORY.
THE JACKSON I BELIEVE IN IS 
SOMEONE WHO HAD A TEMPER BUT 
DEVELOPED A TEMPERAMENT. 
>> TEMPERAMENT CAME UP IN THE 
ELECTION.
PROBABLY SHOULD HAVE BEEN THINGS
WE'RE LOOKING AT IN THE VERY 
BEGINNING.
WHAT KIND OF TEMPERAMENT A 
LEADER BRINGS TO ANY LEADERSHIP 
JOB MEANS THEIR BASIC 
DISPOSITION IN LIFE.
ARE THEY ABLE TO MEET WITH 
PEOPLE FROM OTHER PLACES?  TO 
CONTROL THEIR EMOTIONS?
A LOT OF TIMES THAT COMES FROM 
HAVING BEEN THROUGH DIFFICULTIES
THEMSELVES.
WHEN ASKED HE SAID I HAVE THE 
BEST TEMPERAMENT OF ANYONE IN 
PRESIDENCY BECAUSE I ALWAYS WIN.
THAT IS NOT TRUE.
OF ALL OF THE LEADERS I HAVE 
STUDIED, THEY NOT ONLY LOST BUT 
SUFFERED AND FROM THAT SUFFERING
ROOS FELT, FRANKLIN BECAME A 
MUCH-BETTER PRESIDENT AFTER 
GOING THROUGH POLIO.
HE KNEW WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO HAVE
FATE DEAL YOU AN UNKIND HAND.
SO HE CAN DEAL WITH PEOPLE IN A 
MUCH DEEPER WAY.
THERE IS HUMILITY HE LEARNED 
FROM THAT.
IT'S NOT EASY TO SEE MR. TRUMP 
HAS.
I WAS THINKING ABOUT GEORGE 
WASHINGTON.
HE CAME TO HIS INAUGURATION.
AND HE HE SAID HE'S FEELING LIKE
HE'S GOING TO HIS EXECUTION.
SAYING DO I HAVE THE POLITICAL 
SKILL AND ABILITY TO DEAL WITH 
THE OCEAN OF DIFFICULTIES I'M 
GOING TO FACE?
AND I'M RESTING MY NAME AND OUR 
COUNTRY'S NAME ON ME.
AND HE SAID WHAT I CAN PROMISE 
IS INTEGRITY AND FIRMNESS.
AND THIS IS A HUGE JOB.
HUGE.
>> I TRIED TO -- WHEN 
TEMPERAMENT GAME A BIG ISSUE, I 
WAS TRYING TO SEIZE OUT WHAT DO 
WE MEAN BY THAT?
I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE ABILITY
TO ADMIT A MISTAKE.
I DON'T HAVE NUCLEAR CODES WHICH
IS GOOD.
BUT JOHN KENNEDY HAD TO DESCRIBE
HOW THIS IS TAKING PLACE.
YOU CAN'T JUST LET JOINT CHIEFS 
AND CIA COME IN AT YOU.
IN 1962 -- 
>> 13 DAYS. 
>> EXECUTIVE COMMITTEE OF THE 
NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL IS THE
DIRECT RESULT OF THE BAY OF 
PIGS.
DISASTER, APRIL '61, SALVATION, 
OCTOBER, 1962.
THE NIGHT THE CUBAN MISSILE 
CRISIS ENDED JACK KENNEDY SAID 
TO MRS. KENNEDY I GUESS THIS IS 
THE NIGHT I SHOULD GO TO THE 
THEATER BECAUSE IT WILL NEVER 
GET ANY BETTER THAN THIS.
IT'S HEART BREAKING.
BUT THAT WAS A LEVEL OF 
HUMILITY.
ADMITTING A MISTAKE.
ANOTHER, I BELIEF IS EMPATHY.
WHEN IT'S YOUR POLITICAL 
OPPONENT ON THE HILL OR LEADER 
OVERSEAS.
GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, ONE 
OF THE MOST EMPATHETIC MEN WHO 
EVER DREW BREATH, ONE OF THE 
REASONS THE COLD WAR ENDED 
PEACEABLY IS WHEN THE BERLIN 
WALL FELL, DESPITE WHAT GEORGE 
MITCHELL IN THE SENATE WANTED TO
DO, GEORGE BUSH WAS NOT GOING TO
GO TO BERLIN, AND AS HE PUT IT 
DANCE ON THE WALL.
HE SAID I DIDN'T WANT TO STICK 
IT IN GORBACHEV'S EAR.
I THINK HE MEANT EYE.
HE KNEW IF AN AMERICAN PRESIDENT
SHOWED UP AT THE DOOR STEP AND 
DECLARED VICTORY HE PLAYED A 
POLITICAL COST.
WHEN HE HAD A COOKIE OR CANDY 
BAR, HE WOULD CUT IT IN HALF AND
GIVE IT TO THE OTHER KID.
THERE IS A DIRECT LINE. 
>> FOR SOME PEOPLE, EMPATHY IS 
INBORN.
WHEN I THINK ABOUT LINCOLN AS A 
LITTLE KID WHEN OTHER KIDS WOULD
BE PUTTING HOT COALS ON TURTLES 
AND LOVING TO SEE THEM JUMP 
AROUND, HE NOT ONLY COULDN'T 
BEAR IT, BUT HE WROTE AN ESSAY 
IN SCHOOL ABOUT WHY IT WAS 
WRONG.
HE WAS FEELING EMPATHETIC 
TOWARDS A TURTLE, THEN, YOU 
THINK ABOUT THE GREAT SECOND 
INAUGURAL, THE IDEA IS EMPATHY, 
UNDERSTANDING NO MESSAGES HE'S 
HE DELIVERING DESPITE THE FACT 
THE WAR IS COMING TO AN END.
HE KNOWS THE TASK IS TO BRING 
THE SOUTH BACK INTO THE UNION.
REACHING OUT TO THE SOUTH AND 
TEDDY ROOSEVELT ONCE SAID 
WITHOUT FELLOW FEELINGS HE WENT 
TO THE SLUMS, WALKING AROUND AS 
A POLICE COMMISSIONER TO SEE 
WHAT IT WAS LIKE TO LIVE IN A 
SLUM.
HE SAID IT BECOMES NATURAL AFTER
HIS WIFE AND MOTHER DIED ON THE 
SAME DAY IN THE SAME HOUSE, HE 
LEARNED WHAT IT IS LIKE TO BE A 
COWBOY AND RANCHER AND SAID 
WITHOUT FELLOW FEELING A 
DEMOCRACY IS NOT GOING TO WORK 
AND PEOPLE SEEING OTHER THAT IS 
WHERE I FEAR WE'RE AT NOW.
WHAT PREVENTED DEMOCRATS, 
PERHAPS, FROM UNDERSTANDING WHAT
THE PEOPLE WHO VOTED FOR TRUMP 
WERE FEELING IS THAT THEY HADN'T
HAD CONNECTION WAS PEOPLE WHO 
FELT LIKE WAS PASSING THEM BY.
NOW, PEOPLE HAPPY ARE NOT 
FEELING THE SAME SENSE OF 
EMPATHY TOWARDS THE PEOPLE THAT 
LOST.
THAT IS A WHAT WE HAVE TO FEEL.
THERE WAS AN ARTICLE THE OTHER 
DAY IN A BOSTON MAGAZINE.
I COME FROM NEW ENGLAND AND 
PROBABLY DO THINK OF MYSELF AS 
LIBERAL THAT SAID 28-1 ARE 
LIBERALS TO CONSERVATIVES IN 
COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS IN NEW 
ENGLAND AND THAT KIDS WHO ARE 
CONSERVATIVES IN SCHOOLS, THEY 
FEEL LIKE THEY HAVE TO STAY IN 
THE CLOSET AND NOT COME OUZ -- 
OUT.
AND SOMETIMES, PROFESSORS ARE 
MAKING FUN OF TRUMP.
IF IT STARTS AT THAT LEVEL, THEN
WE CAN'T EXPECT LEADERSHIP TO DO
IT AT THE TOP. 
>> SO, JOHN?
>> 28 YEARS AGO YESTERDAY WHEN 
BUSH 41 OPENED WITH A PRAYER 
HE'D WRITTEN HIMSELF ON SOME 
CARDS.
IT BASICALLY SAID HELP US, LORD.
TO USE POWER TO HELP OURSELVES 
BUT ENABLE US TO USE POWER TO 
HELP PEOPLE.
NOT TO MAKE A GREAT SHOW IN THE 
WORLD.
THERE IS A LEVEL OF A KIND OF 
DECENCY THERE THAT WE'RE SEEING 
EXPRESSED THERE.
WE CAN DO MORE, I THINK OF THE 
KINDER AND GENTLER RHETORIC.
ONE OF THE THINGS PEOPLE TALK 
ABOUT HOW WASHINGTON IS OUT OF 
TOUCH.
I THINK IT'S OPPOSITE PROBABLY.
WASHINGTON IS TOO MUCH A MIRROR.
IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO 
ANSWER WHAT ST. AUGUSTINE, YOU 
HAVEN'T HAD ST. AUGUSTINE THROWN
AT YOU SATURDAY NIGHT IN A 
WHILE.
I HOPE.
BUT IT'S IN THE CITY OF GOD.
HE SAYS A BEING UNITED BY THE 
COMMON OBJECTS OF THEIR LOVE.
>> DO THEY HAVE TO BE RATIONAL?
>> YES.
UNITED BY COMMON OBJECTS OF 
THEIR LOVE.
WE HAVE TO ASK WHAT DO WE LOVE 
IN COMMON?
WE BELIEVE WHAT WE WANT.
AND THE TRIUMPH OF OPINION OF 
FACT IS ONE OF THE MOST 
CORROSIVE THING. 
>> I WAS TALKING WITH A SENATOR,
THEY FEEL THE SENATE IS A 
DYSFUNCTIONAL BODY.
THE REASON IS THAT HE SAID WE 
ARGUE OVER THE SOLUTION WE DON'T
AGREE WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE. 
>> RIGHT. 
>> YOU'RE SAYING THAT IS A 
REFLECTION OF THE COUNTRY. 
>> WHAT MAKES THAT MORE 
TROUBLING, TOO, IF YOU LOOK AT 
THE CONGRESS MANY KNEW WHAT IT 
WAS LIKE TO HAVE TO GO ACROSS 
RACE AND LINES TO ACCOMPLISH 
SOMETHING TO ACCOMPLISH 
SOMETHING TOGETHER AS A GROUP.
NOW, THAT LACK OF A COMMON 
MISSION IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT
IN WASHINGTON.
MY SON, JOE, I PROBABLY TALKED 
ABOUT LAST TIME I WAS HERE.
PROBABLY NOT.
AFTER SEPTEMBER 11TH HE JUST 
GRADUATED FROM HARVARD IN 
HISTORY AND HE WAS IN BAGHDAD 
AND GOT A BRONZE STAR, SENT BACK
TO AFGHANISTAN, CAME OUT, 
DELAYING GOING TO HARVARD LAW 
SCHOOL 10 YEARS SAYING HE WOULD 
NEVER CHANGE IT FOR ANYTHING.
NOTHING MADE HIM PROUDER THAN 
BEING WITH 26 KIDS IN THAT 
PLATOON.
HE'S VERY MUCH ARGUING FOR A 
SORT OF NATIONAL SERVICE SO 
YOUNG PEOPLE CAN EXPERIENCE THAT
CONNECTION WITH ONE ANOTHER AND 
THAT SENSE OF A COMMON MISSION.
>> THAT IS RIGHT.
>> WHEN JOHN KERRY FIRST GAME 
THE CHAIRMAN OF THE FOREIGN 
RELATIONS COMMITTEE IN 10, OR 11
IT WAS THE 40TH ANNIVERSARY OF 
THE FULLBRIGHT HEARINGS WHERE HE
CAME TO NATIONAL PROMINENCE BY 
SAYING HOW DO YOU ASK A MAN WHO 
IS THE LAST MAN TO DIE FOR A 
MISTAKE?
AND WE'RE AT A ROUGH MOMENT IN 
AFGHANISTAN.
AND I WAS GOING TO WRITE A 
COLUMN TO HAVE A SET OF HEARINGS
ABOUT AFGHANISTAN 10 YEARS ON.
AND REALLY PUT A LOT INTO IT.
MOST OF THE TIME WHEN YOU CALL A
SENATOR AND SAY I THINK YOU 
SHOULD BE ON TV MORE, THEY'RE 
RECEPTIVE.
JOHN SAID I DON'T THINK IT WOULD
WORK.
I SAID WHY.
HE SAID BECAUSE WE'D SPEND TOO 
MUCH TIME ARGUING ABOUT THE 
BASIC, FACTUAL ASSUMPTIONS.
>> WOW. 
>> AND I THOUGHT JESUS CHRIST.
IF WE CAN'T HAVE A DEBATE ABOUT 
WHAT IS NOW OUR LONGEST WAR, 
INCLUDING THE REV SOLUTION, 
WHICH DORIS'S SON IS SERVING HOW
CAN WE DEAL WITH PROJECTING 
FORCE IN A DEMOCRATIC AND 
LEGITIMATE WAY?
DOES ANYONE IN THIS ROOM BELIEVE
THAT IF THERE WERE A SELECTIVE 
SERVICE DRAFT WE'D BE IN THE 
WARS WE'RE INVOLVED IN TODAY?
>> RIGHT.
RIGHT. 
>> ONE MORE QUESTION TO YOU.
IN THE DAYS AFTER THE ELECTION, 
I WAS TALKING WITH A GUY I 
BELIEVE WAS DISAPPOINTED IN THE 
RESULTS.
AND THIS MANNING SAYING WE'D 
LIKE TO IMAGINE PROGRESS 
CONTINUES AND WE'RE MOVING 
FORWARD AND THAT WE'RE IMPROVING
A LITTLE BIT.
HE SAID SOMETIMES, MAN KIND GOES
BACK.
LEAPS BACK IN TIME.
AND WE DO HAVE A MOMENT IN WHICH
A PRESIDENT IS BEING RELEASED BY
ANOTHER PRESIDENT WHOSE STARTING
POINT FOR NEGOTIATION IS THAT I 
WANT TO UNDO EVERYTHING DONE.
LET'S GO BACK EIGHT YEARS AND 
HAVE THOSE DEBATES.
DO YOU THINK PROGRESS 
DISCONTINUE FORWARD?
THAT MARTIN LUTHER KING IS RIGHT
ABOUT THE ARC OF JUSTICE BEING 
LONG BUT MOVING TOWARDS JUSTICE,
OR DO WE SOMETIMES TAKE A LEAP 
BACKWARD?
INTO DARKNESS. 
>> I THINK IT'S GIVEN HIM A 
CERTAIN KIND OF STABILITY 
LEAVING THIS OFFICE.
WHEN I INTERVIEWED HIM, THIS 
SUMMER, EVERYTHING LOOKED MORE 
POSITIVE IN A SENSE OF WHAT HIS 
LEGACY WAS GOING TO BE.
HEALTH CARE WOULD BE THERE AND 
ONE IMAGINES SOME OF THE THINGS 
PUT FORWARD HE'D BE REMEMBERED 
FOR AND YET HE HASN'T LOST HIS 
SPIRIT.
BECAUSE HE HAS THAT PHILOSOPHY, 
SOCIETY, PEOPLE, THEY SOMETIMES 
SXAG ZAG.
THERE IS A MOVE IN AMERICA 
TOWARDS GREATER PROGRESS.
LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE 
INNER CITIES IT LOOKED LIKE 
WE'RE BACK, WAY BACK, SO MUCH 
PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE FOR 
AFRICAN AMERICANS IN THEIR LAST 
15 YEARS AND 20 YEARS AND 30 
YEARS.
THAT WE FORGET SOMETIMES.
THAT IS PART OF THE ODDNESS OF 
THE ELECTION F LISTENING TO WHAT
MR. TRUMP IS SAYING, THE PEOPLE 
LEFT BEHIND BY MANUFACTURING AND
WHO FEEL THEY LOST THEIR SENSE 
OF SELF ESTEEM, THEY NEED 
SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
THE COUNTRY IS BETTER NOW.
YOU WOULD THINK IT HAD GONE WAY 
DOWN HILL BECAUSE OF THE WAY THE
ELECTION WAS.
WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT AMERICA, I 
THINK ABOUT THOSE DEBATES WITH 
STEVEN DOUGLAS.
HE SAID HE THOUGHT DOUGLAS WAS 
TRYING TO MAKE US GO BACKWARD.
HE SAID IF YOU'RE TRYING TO 
PERFECT THE UNION YOU'RE GOING 
TO BE AGHAST BETWEEN WHERE YOU 
WANTED TO BE F YOU KEEP MOVING 
TOWARD THAT, IF YOU SOMETIMES GO
INTO A HORIZONTAL WAY, YOU'LL 
KEEP GOING THAT WAY.
AND I GUESS I BELIEVE WHEN YOU 
LOOK AT HISTORY JUST HAVING BEEN
A DODGER FAN AND RED SOX FAN FOR
MANY YEARS I HAD TO BE AN 
OPTIMIST.
IT'S A CHARACTER TRAIT.
I SEE IT IN AMERICAN HISTORY AND
CHARACTER. 
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK YANKEE 
FANS?
>> I KNOW HOW TO LOOSE.
I'M A SOUTHERNER AND CHRISTIAN.
THE DUTY OF A CHRISTIAN IS NOT 
JUST TO SUCCEED BUT FAIL 
CHEERILY?
THAT IS ME.
THE QUESTION SR WE FALLING BACK 
NOW?
AND CAN THERE WITH A FALL BACK?
IT WAS SAID HISTORY TAKES NO 
LEAP EX -- HISTORY LIKE NATURE 
KNOWS NO LEAPS, WE DON'T GO 
VASTLY FORWARD IN ONE MOMENT. 
>> OF COURSE. 
>> WE GO BACKWARD.
SO WE DO WHAT YOU DO FOR A 
LIVING YOU KNOW ALMOST ALL GREAT
MOMENTS ARE CONTINGENT.
AND JFK SAID DURING CUBAN 
MISSILE CRISIS, GOD KNOWS WHAT 
IS GOING TO HAPPEN.
THERE IS ALWAYS A SON OF A -- 
THAT DOESN'T GET THE MEMO.
IF ABRAHAM LINCOLN HADN'T BEEN 
WHERE HE WAS IN 61 WE WOULD HAVE
HAD A DIFFERENT RESULT.
IF LYNDON JOHNSON WASN'T WHERE 
HE WAS ON BLOODY SUNDAY, WE 
WOULD HAVE HAD A DIFFERENT 
RESULT.
YOU NEEDED SOMEONE WHO TWO 
SIGNIFICANT FILL PLYINGS WERE 
ACTORS PROJECTING A REALITY OF 
THE WORLD WE COULDN'T SEE BUT 
WANTED TO.
RONALD REAGAN AND JOHN PAUL II.
THEY WERE ABLE TO HELP BRING 
COMMUNISM DOWN.
>> YOU CAN ADD FDR TO THAT.
HE THOUGHT HE WAS A GOOD OF AN 
ACTOR AS ORSON WELLS. 
>> AND HE WOULD LOOK APPROVINGLY
AND SAY THAT WAS THE GARBO AT 
ME. 
>> WE DO THIS AT BAR MITZVAHS.
IF YOU NEED US.
WELLS ONCE SAID, SORRY.
SO, YES.
>> I WAS SUPPOSED TO KEEP HIM IN
LINE. 
>> WAIT UNTIL WE GET TO FOUNDING
FATHERS. 
>> I THINK THIS IS A -- 
>> THIS IS A QUESTION AND ANSWER
SESSION. 
>> I THINK IT'S POSSIBLE TO FALL
OFF WHAT FDR SAID, QUOTING AND 
SAID THE LINE OF CIVILIZATION 
MOVES FORWARD.
I DO BELIEVE THAT.
IT REQUIRES ME TO SAY DARKNESS 
IS ALWAYS NEARBY.
THAT IS WHY WHAT YOU'RE DOING 
HERE, BY COMING TO LISTEN TO 
TALK IS SO IMPORTANT. 
>> COULD WE HAVE A MOMENT WHERE 
DIFFERENT GROUPS ARE PUSHING 
THEMSELVES FORWARD?
MAKING THEMSELVES HEARD?
FROM 2008, A DIFFERENT SET OF 
PEOPLE IN 2016.
AND. 
>> WHAT IS INTERESTING ABOUT 
WATCHING MARCHES TODAY OF WOMEN 
NOT ONLY IN WASHINGTON BUT ALL 
OVER THE COUNTRY, WAS THAT IN 
CONTRAST TO THE PROTESTS THAT 
TOOK PLACE AT THE INAUGURATION 
YID, WHICH WAS RANDOM AND 
NOTHING THEY'RE MARCHING FOR AND
IT WAS SAD, TODAY SEEMED TO ME 
WHATEVER YOU FEEL, IT'S VALUE 
VANNIZING PEOPLE TO FIGHT FOR 
THEIR RIGHTS NOW AND TO OPPOSE 
IN A REAL WAY, THEY'RE ARGUING 
SOME SIGNS WERE ANTITRUMP.
AND I CARE ABOUT REPRODUCTIVE 
RIGHTS OR ABOUT PLANNED 
PARENTHOOD AND SO THEY'RE 
ARGUING FOR GOALS.
THERE WAS A SUFFICIENT RAJETT 
PROTEST AT WOOD ROW WILSON'S 
INAUGURATION.
SO IF WHAT HAPPENS, AND THIS IS 
WHAT IS INTERESTING, IS THAT 
OBAMA SAID HE'S GOING TO STAY 
OUT OF THINGS UNLESS CERTAIN 
THINGS HAPPENED.
AND THERE ARE OTHER ONES.
AND I THINK THAT IS TRUE FOR THE
COUNTRY.
YOU KNOW?
WE HAVE TO GIVE TRUMP A CHANCE 
RIGHT NOW.
WE HAVE TO HOPE THAT MOMENT WILL
PIVOT.
AND BE ABLE TO DEAL WITH THIS 
EXTRAORDINARY RESPONSIBILITY AND
INSTEKTS WILL BE HELPED BY THE 
PEOPLE AROUND HIM.
IF. 
>> ANDREW JACKSON ACCUSED HIS 
EEPTS OF BEING ELITIST AND OUT 
OF TOUCH AND IT WAS SORT OF 
TRUE.
HIS OPPONENTS REALIZE THEY HAD 
NEEDED TO BE MORE DEMOCRATIC AND
ORGANIZED AND JACKSON FOUND THE 
DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND OPPONENTS 
FOUNDED THE WIG PARTY.
AND I THINK PEOPLE WHO HATED 
ANDREW JACKSON WOULD HAVE TO BE 
GRATEFUL TO HIM FOR. 
>> I MEAN PEOPLE HAVE LITTLE 
TIME TODAY BECAUSE OF HOW MUCH 
TIME, ESPECIALLY YOUNG PEOPLE 
ARE SPENDING ON FACEBOOK OR 
E-MAIL OR WHATEVER THEY'RE DOING
THAT DOESN'T ALLOW THEM TO COME 
TOGETHER TO -- THEY DID GO FROM 
BERNIE SANDERS BUT THEN, I'M NOT
SURE THOSE PEOPLE WHO ARE 
PROTESTING RIGHT AFTER TRUMP WON
ACTUALLY DIDN'T VOTE SOME OF 
THEM.
PEOPLE ARE SAYING HAVE YOU VOTED
AND THEY DIDN'T.
IF THIS GALVANIZES MORE PEOPLE 
IN A WAY, THAT IS A GOOD THING 
THAT COULD COME OUT OF IT. 
>> ONE QUICKLY BECAUSE OF WHERE 
WE ARE, JEFFERSON'S POINT IS MAN
SHOULD BE A PARTICIPANTS IN THE 
POLITICS OF THE STATE AND 
NATIONS NOT JUST ELECTIONS BUT 
EVERY DAY. 
>> THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
SO WE'RE GOING TO TAKE A BREAK 
AND TAKE QUESTIONS.
THANKS FOR JOINING US SO FAR.
IT'S BEEN GREAT.
REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
>> RICHARD T.
THINKING OF PRESIDENTS YOU 
PERSONALLY SPENT TIME WITH.
THAT IS COOL.
WE'RE ON STAGE WITH PEOPLE WHO 
PERSONALLY SPENT TIME WITH 
PRESIDENTS.
DORIS CAN YOU NAME ONE 
CHARACTERISTIC DONALD TRUMP 
MIGHT SHARE WITH LBJ?
>> COARSENESS.
NO.
LBJ HAD AN UNUSUAL WAY OF 
SPEAKING WHEN TALKING.
IT'S NOT IN PUBLIC BUT PRIVATE.
IT WAS ENTERTAINING AND 
SOMETIMES, WITH DONALD TRUMP 
IT'S INTERESTING. 
>> DEFINITELY INTERESTING. 
>> YES.
NO.
I MEAN, AND SHORT AND STRAIGHT 
FORWARD AND I DON'T KNOW WHETHER
HE TELLS STORIES.
THAT IS AN IMPORTANT PART, I 
THINK OF LEADERSHIP TO BE ABLE 
TO TELL STORIES AND LBJ LIKED TO
ENGAGE IN HYPERBOLE.
I REMEMBER, HE DIDN'T WANT TO 
SWIM, JUST WANTED TO TALK.
SO THERE WERE RAFTS WITH 
FLOATING MEMO PADS.
AND THAT DAY, THE PRESIDENT 
MENTIONED HE HAD A GREAT, GREAT 
GRAND FATHER WHO DIED AT THE 
BATTLE OF ALAMO.
HE SAID HE DIDN'T HAVE A GREAT 
GRANDFATHER WHO DIED AT ALAMO.
HE MUST HAVE WANTED TO.
I SAID HOW CAN YOU DO THAT?
HE SAID THESE JOURNALISTS ARE 
SUCH STICKLERS FOR DETAIL.
HE TELLS ME HIS GREAT GREAT 
GRAND FATHER DIED AT THE BATTLE 
OF SAN JACINTO AND HOW THAT WAS 
MORE IMPORTANT IN THE ALAMO 
UNTIL I FOUND OUT THE GUY HADN'T
DIE DIED THERE, EITHER. 
>> CAN YOU NAME A CHARACTERISTIC
DONALD TRUMP GEORGE HW BUSH?
>> JESUS.
I KNEW THAT WAS COMING.
>> HONESTLY, NO.
I'M NOT TRYING TO BE CLEVER.
I BELIEVE THE MOVEMENT IN 30 
YEARS FROM GEORGE HERBERT WALKER
BUSH TO DONALD TRUMP JUST PROVES
DARLING.
AND GEORGE BUSH PUT THE COUNTRY 
FIRST AS OFTEN AS HE COULD.
HE WAS NOT PERFECT.
HE SAID TO ME POLITICS IS NOT A 
PURE UNDERTAKING IF YOU WANT TO 
WIN.
IT'S NOT.
HE RAN A BRUTAL CAMPAIGN IN 
1988.
IN WASHINGTON HE TRIED TO CREATE
A CULTURE OF COMPROMISE.
OPPOSING 1964 CIVIL RIGHTS ACT 
IN TEXAS, UNCOMFORTABLE REALITY 
TO TALK ABOUT NOW.
IN 1968 WHEN ACTUALLY IN 
CONGRESS HE VOTED FOR FAIR 
HOUSING.
TO ME, THE DRAMA OF GEORGE WAS, 
IS THAT HE DID ALMOST HE HAD TO 
DO TO ACHIEVE POWER BUT WHEN HE 
ACHIEVED POWER HE DID ALMOST HE 
COULD TO DO THE RIGHT THING N A 
POLITICAL LIFE I DON'T THINK 
THERE IS A MUCH WARMER WAY TO 
LOOK AT IT.
HE'S NOT A PREACHER, A 
PHILOSOPHER.
CONSISTENCY ISN'T THE TEST FOR 
HIM.
TO ME, IT'S EFFECTIVENESS.
IT'S KIND OF MORAL CLARITY WHEN 
THINGS ARE DARK.
BUT NO.
I DON'T SEE THAT.
AND THEY COME FROM DIFFERENT 
WORLDS IN THAT DONALD TRUMP IS A
PRODUCT AND WOULD NOT BE 
PRESIDENT IF IT WERE NOT FOR 
REALITY TELEVISION.
GEORGE HW BUSH, YOU KNOW, HE 
LIKED DANA CARVY'S IMITATION OF 
HIM. 
>> DANA SAID IT WAS EASY, 
MR. ROGERS TRYING TO BE JOHN 
WAYNE.
SO HERE -- HERE IS A DIFFERENCE 
TRUMP TWEETED TWICE FURIOUS 
ABOUT ALEC BALDWIN'S PORTRAYAL 
OF HIM IN SATURDAY NIGHT LIFE.
WHEN HE LOST IN 1992, 
DEVASTATING PERSONAL LOSS.
LISTENING TO AUDIO DIARY ENTRY 
IS TEAR PROVOKING.
THE DEPTHS THAT IT PUT BUSH IN.
HE FELT HE LET EVERYONE DOWNFUL 
HE WANTED TO LIFT STAFF SPIRITS.
SO HE INVITED DANA CARVY TO 
SPEND THE NIGHT AT THE WHITE 
HOUSE AND PERFORM IN THE EAST 
ROOM. 
>> PERFORM GEORGE BUSH?
>> YEAH.
ONE GUY ATTACKING ALEC BALDWIN, 
THE OTHER GUY INVITED HIS ALEC 
BALDWIN TO COME TO THE WHITE 
HOUSE. 
>> DO YOU THINK THERE ARE 
SIMILARITIES BETWEEN TRUMP'S 
AMERICA FIRST APPROACH AND 
ISOLATIONISM AFTER WORLD WAR I?
>> THERE IS A SIMILARITY OF 
LANGUAGE BECAUSE CHARLES 
LINDBERGH USE THAT HAD PHRASE, 
AMERICA FIRST. 
>> I THINK SO.
BRIEFLY.
THE ICE SOLATION. 
>> IT WAS A TARIFF PASSED. 
>> PEOPLE ARE WITH ME.
OKAY?
THEY DON'T THINK IT'S A 
COCKTAIL.
>> EXACTLY.
DOUBLE. 
>> RADIO GUYS.
THEY TALK A LOT. 
>> THE NEUTRALITY ACTS WHICH FDR
HAD TO FIGHT STARTING WITH WHO 
DESTROYED THE DEAL IN 40 AND 
THEN, 41 IS AL FOR PEACE.
AND REMEMBER, PERSONAL OBSESSION
OF MINE, WE DID NOT DECLARE WAR 
ON NAZI GERMANY ON THE 8TH OF 
DECEMBER, 1941. 
>> TRUE. 
>> WE WAITED UNTIL HITLER 
DECLARED WAR ON US ON THURSDAY, 
THE 11TH.
AND WE DECLARED ON THE 12TH.
ROOSEVELT WAS WORRIED THAT 
AMERICA FIRST WAS DEAD IN THE 
PACIFIC BUT NOT YET DEAD IN THE 
EUROPEAN WAR.
SO THERE IS A FEAR THAT WEEK.
OF COURSE FDR, CHURCH HILL CAME 
AND THEY HAD CHRISTMAS TOGETHER.
>> I THINK THE WORRY SOME THING 
ABOUT THE RESEARCH OF 
NATIONALISM WHICH IS PART OF THE
THING IS THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING
AT THEIR OWN INTERESTS.
WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH 
ALLIANCES?
WHAT CAME OUT OF WORLD WAR II 
AFTER EXPERIENCE ROOSEVELT HAD 
HAD TO FIGHT AGAINST THAT 
AMERICA FIRST.
THE EXPERIENCE OF WORLD WAR I 
HAD BEEN TRAUMATIC AND A WAR 
FOUGHT AND NOBODY UNDERSTOOD 
WHAT IT HAD BEEN FOUGHT FOR.
SO THERE WAS A REASON THEY FELT 
THAT.
THINGS WERE HAPPENING EUROPE 
THAT HAD TO BE DEALT WITH.
IF THERE WAS A WAR IT WAS WORLD 
WAR II.
WE LOST YEARS OF PREPARATION.
WHATS OUT IS THE UNITED NATIONS,
NATO AND THAT IS WHAT MADE 
AMERICA THE WORLD LEADER WE 
BECAME.
IF WE UNDO THOSE ALLIANCES 
AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS
TO AMERICA'S LEADERSHIP IN THE 
WORLD. 
>> THAT IS NOT JUST 
ISOLATIONISM.
AND THE PRESIDENT.
THE PRESIDENT SAID AND PART OF 
THAT IS THE NATIONALISM DORIS IS
TALKING ABOUT.
WHAT LED TO SECOND WORLD WAR WAS
THE CRASH AND PRESSURES HERE 
THAT WAS THE RISE OF NATIONALISM
THAT EMPIRES BROKE UP.
AFTER WORLD WAR I.
AND THIS GOES BACK TO HISTORY 
DOESN'T REPEAT ITSELF, BUT DOES 
RHYME. 
>> THAT IS ONE OF THE GREAT 
COMMENTS I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT
THEY MEAN. 
>> DON'T YOU THINK M TRUMP 
RESTRAINED BY THE SYSTEM?
>> HASN'T HOPED SO FAR.
THE GREAT HOPE IS THAT MAD 
SONNIN DOES IT.
>> HE'S GOING TO GO OFF NOW.
>> THAT IS THE HOPE.
BUT YOU KNOW, SINCE TR, REALLY, 
LINCOLN, THERE IS LINE OF 
JACKSON AND LINCOLN, TR, FDR.
PRESIDENCY HAS BECOME WHAT IS 
KENNEDY'S PHRASE, VITAL CENTER 
OF ACTION.
IT'S THE CENTER OF OUR 
CONSCIOUSNESS.
OF OUR CULTURE.
IN A WAY.
I HOPE ARTICLE 1, 2, 3 WILL DO 
WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.
BUT WE HAVE A SYSTEM IN 
WASHINGTON NOW WHERE THERE IS A 
LIVE DEBATE THAT YOU SHOULD 
LEAVE THE SUPREME COURT. 
>> BY FILIBUSTERING ANY NOMINEE.
>> MY VIEW IS THAT IT'S BETTER 
BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT 
THIS ENOUGH.
THE FEDERAL JUDICIARY OF 1789.
>> I HOPE YOU HAVE SLEEPING 
BAGS. 
>> I WONNEDER IF THAT FIRST 
QUESTIONER IS BACK FROM THE WAR.
WE HAD 6, 7, 10, THEN NINE.
MY POINT IS THAT IT'S A SYSTEM 
THAT IS ALREADY IN DEEP 
CORROSION.
IT'S NOT FUNCTIONING EVEN BEFORE
THIS GUY GOT TO TOWN. 
>> WHAT DO YOU THINK?
>> I BY PART OF THE DIFFICULTY 
FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP IS THAT YOU 
CAN FIRE PEOPLE, YOU CAN GIVE 
VOICES TO PEOPLE WHO DO WELL.
I THINK HE'S GOING TO COME UP 
AGAIN, ISN'T THERE A SAYING THEY
SAID HE WAS A SAD MAN?
AS A MILITARY LEADER HE CAN GIVE
ORDERS?
THAT IS NOT RIGHT?
>> SHURM ONSAID FOR ICE. 
>> IT WASN'T TRUE.
>> THERE IS SOME STORY THAT 
TRUMAN LOVES TO TELL HE'S GOING 
TO WE CAN SEE PEOPLE GOING AND 
ICEN HOWER SAYS TO TRUMAN, I WAS
AFRAID I WOULD OUTSHINE YOU.
AND TRUMAN SAID YOU DIDN'T COME 
BECAUSE I DIDN'T INVITE YOU. 
>> DO YOU THINK THERE HAS BEEN A
PRESIDENT THAT BROUGHT 
DISRUPTION AND CHANGE OF 
DIRECTION LIKE MR. TREFRP?
>> IF ARGUE, YOU'VE HAD 
OPPRESSION IN ALMOST AT ROCK 
ROCK BOTTOM AND THE IDEA HAD 
STIFLED HERBERT HOOVER WHO WAS A
GOOD MAN, I THINK, HE DIDN'T 
BELIEVE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT 
SHOULD AND COULD HAVE A ROLL SO 
IT WAS A REAP AND FDR CHANGED 
THE SYSTEM.
MADE GOVERNMENT AN ACTIVE 
PLAYER, THEN, YOU CAN ARGUE 
REAGAN CAME IN ARGUING 
GOVERNMENT WAS THE PROBLEM NOT 
THE SOLUTION.
SO IT MEANS A RANGE.
THE RIN PARTY HAD BEEN THE PRO 
BUSINESS, POLITICAL BOSS PARTY.
AND TEDDY SAW DANGERS WHERE 
MONOPOLYS WERE BEING BUILT UP BY
LARGER COMPANIES AND SO WE 
CERTAINLY HAVE SEEN IT. 
>> WHAT ABOUT ANDREW JACKSON?
WAS HE A DISRUPTER?
>> WELL, YES.
IT WAS ALMOST MORE IN STYLE THAN
IN SUBSTANCE.
THAT WE THROUGH HIM OFF.
AS YOU KNOW.
PEOPLE THINK HE CLEANED OUT THE 
BUREAUCRACY.
HE DID IT WITH SKILL AND CARE.
THE BANK WAS NOT LIKE A FEDERAL 
RESERVE.
THE BANK OF THE UNITED STATES 
TOOK TAXPAYERS DEPOSITS AND KEPT
MEMBERS ON RETAINER SO HE WASN'T
TOO FAR OFF.
I WOULD SAY 1801.
JEFFERSON CALLED IT THE 
REVOLUTION OF 1800.
IT WAS IN THE HOUSE.
AND BURR HAD THE SAME NUMBER OF 
ELECTORAL VOTES.
WHAT MILTON SAID HE'S SOMEONE 
NOT GOING TO TEAR EVERYTHING UP.
AND THAT IS WHAT IS ABOUT THIS.
IT'S LIKE "NEW YORK TIMES" NOT 
ALLOWED TO USE THE WORD 
UNPRECEDENTED ON THE GROUNDS OF 
EVERYTHING ULTIMATELY 
UNPRECEDENTED.
WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH 
BOMBASTIC, ODDLY TEMPER MENTAL 
CHALLENGING VERNACULAR OF 
TRUMP'S CANDIDACY UNTIL 
YESTERDAY, THIS AFTERNOON, IS 
GOING TO ATTEMPT TO TRANSLATE 
INTO DELIBERATENESS. 
>> SOMEONE QUESTIONED HIM ABOUT 
THE FACT IN THE HEARINGS, HAD 
DISAGREED BUT THEY DID.
HE TWEETED GREAT JOB, EVERYBODY.
NOW, SO THERE MAY BE A 
DISTINCTION BETWEEN HIS 
UPSETMENT WHEN IT'S A PERSONAL 
ATTACK ON HIM, VERSES ATTACK ON 
HIS IDEAS WHICH MEANS WE MAY IN 
THE KNOW WHAT IDEAS HE REALLY 
HOLDS DEAR.
THAT IS WHAT WE NEED TO FIND OUT
TO SEE IF WE CAN MAKE THAT 
DISTINCTION.
>> I HEARD PRESIDENT TRUMP PUT A
BUST OF THEODORE ROOSEVELT PUT 
IN THE OVAL OFFICE.
WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE?
>> I COULD SEE WHY. 
>> A MANLY MAN.
A MAN WHO SPOKE IN SHORT, PUNCHY
LANGUAGE THAT THE PEOPLE LOVED.
HE CAME TO THE PRESIDENTSY IN A 
TIME WHEN THE MEDIA WAS RIPE FOR
HIM.
THAT IS WHAT IS INTERESTING.
LINCOLN WAS LUCKY TO HAVE HIS 
SPEECHES REPRINTED IN FULL.
TEDDY IS THE PERFECT CHARACTER, 
I MEAN, A CARTOON CHARACTER AND 
SAYS FUN THINGS.
THE PEOPLE KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING.
HE SAID SPEAK SOFTLY AND CARRY A
BIG STICK.
HE GAVE MAXWELL HOUSE THE SLOGAN
"GOOD TO THE VERY LAST DROP".
HE WAS A FIGHTER AND FOUGHT THE 
ESTABLISHMENT.
ONE OF TRUMP'S ADVISOR S WAS 
LIKENING THIS SITUATION TO THE 
SITUATION OF 20TH CENTURY.
SO HE WAS SAYING IT'S GOING TO 
TAKE A WHILE TO GET THE ECONOMY 
MOVING INTO THAT DIRECTION.
THEY'D BE INTERESTING CHARACTERS
EXCEPT TEDDY WAS ABLE TO CHANNEL
THAT ENERGY INTO MODERATE AND 
RATIONAL ACTION.
THE THINGS HE DID, THE 
REPUBLICAN PARTY WAS ABLE TO 
PUSH THEM ALONG.
THAT IS HOW HE HAD A GREAT 
RELATIONSHIP FROM THE PRESS.
THEY WERE NECESSARY TO SHOW 
CONDITIONS SO PEOPLE WOULD 
UNDERSTAND WHY THINGS HAD TO 
CHANGE.
>> HE WANTED PEOPLE TO 
INVESTIGATE YOU AND AGENCIES 
UNDER HIS CONTROL?
>> ABSOLUTELY.
>> IF YOU FIND SOMETHING 
TRUTHFUL ARE YOU CONCERNED ON 
THE PRESS OR ACCESS MIGHT BE 
SHUT DOWN?
>> EVERYONE HERE IS A MEMBER OF 
THE MEDIA.
IF YOU HAVE A SOCIAL MEDIA 
ACCOUNT YOU HAVE CAPACITY TO 
SPEAK TO THE WORLD.
IF WHAT YOU HAS TO SAY DRAW AS 
TENSION, IT COULD REACH AS MANY 
PEOPLE AS WALTER CRONKITE.
AND TO SOME EXTENT, 20TH CENTURY
AS VIEW OF THE PRESS AS A 
NEUTRAL SEEMING ORGAN IS A 
PRODUCT OF THE ERA.
IN ONE REASON, 40 PAPERS HAD 
OTHER POSSIBLE PARTY 
AFFILIATION.
IF HE HAD A BUSINESS MODEL THAT 
BECAME MORE CENTRAL.
I THINK SO CALLED PRESS 
CONFERENCES STARTED BACK AT 
MARAHGO AND TWO WEEKS AGO, I 
GUESS HAD MORE IN COMMON WITH 
INFOMERCIALS.
SUPPORTERS WERE CLAPPING.
THAT IS OUTSIDE OF THE BOUNDS IT
SEEMS WHAT PRESIDENTS SHOULD DO.
>> PRESIDENTS NEED PRESS 
CONFERENCES TO KEEP THEM HONEST 
WITH THEMSELVES.
AND THE PRESS IS ASKING 
QUESTIONS AND TEDDY IS BUMPING 
AROUND.
HE UNDERSTOOD THAT, HE SAID 
THEY'RE GOING TO CRITICIZE HIM 
AND THERE ARE CHANNELS AND HE 
SAID HE PLACED HIMSELF IN THE 
MIDDLE OF EVERY ACTION IN EVERY 
BATTLE OF THE WAR AND SHOULD 
HAVE CALLED IT ALONE IN CUBA.
THIS IS A FAMOUS JOURNALIST.
HE WRITES THEM A LETTER AND SAYS
I REGRET TO TELL YOU MY WIFE AND
CHILDREN ADORED YOUR TITLE FOR 
MY BOOK.
NOW, YOU OWE ME SOMETHING.
COME VISIT ME.
I HAVE WANTED TO ME YOU.
YOU HAVE TO REALIZE YOU NEED 
THEM, THEY NEED YOU.
>> IN 1992, PAT BUCHANAN GETTING
40% OF THE VOTE IN NEW 
HAMPSHIRE.
WE FORGET THIS.
RUSH LIMBAUGH WAS KILLING BUSH.
LIMBAUGH HAD GONE NATIONAL IN 
88.
REALLY BIG BY 92.
BUSH AND ROGER ALES TO BROKER A 
MEETING.
HE CARRIES LIND BAU'S BAG 
UPSTAIRS TO THE LINCOLN BEDROOM.
AND SPENDS THE EVENING WITH HIM.
AND. 
>> YOU MADE A GAFFE.
YOU'RE IN THE LINCOLN BEDROOM 
AND HE SPENDS THE EVENING WITH 
HIM?
>> DORIS?
YOU ARE A NEW ENGLAND LIBERAL.
I AM A POOR BOY FROM TEXAS.
I AM MORE OPEN MINDED THAN YOU.
[ LAUGHTER "AS OUR FRIEND TIM 
RUSSERT USED TO SAY WHAT A 
COUNTRY." 
>> USA.
DID WE HAVE A CONVERSATION?
I CAN'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS.
ARE YOU MAKING A POINT?
>> OH.
OH.
ANOTHER POINT.
YES.
AS SOMEONE WHO SLEEPS WITH A 
SPEECH WRITER. 
>> YOU STARTED IT.
BILL SAPPHIRE USED TO SAY THE 
STATE OF THE UNION IS IMPORTANT 
BECAUSE IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET
FEDERAL AGENCIES TO DECIDE 
ANYTHING. 
>> IT'S TRUE. 
>> THE PRESIDENT HAD TO HAVE 
SOMETHING TO ANNOUNCE.
SO THE SPEECH FORCED 
BUREAUCRATIC CLARITY.
>> RIGHT.
>> THIS IS EXCITING.
>> I'M DOING DOLLY AND JAMES 
MADISON. 
>> IS THAT GREAT?
>> WHAT I WANT TO DO IS MADISON 
HAS BEEN LITERALLY AND 
FIGURATIVELY OVERSHADOWED.
HE'S A LITTLE GUY.
ABOUT 54 AS YOU KNOW FROM ORANGE
COUNTY.
AND LOST BETWEEN WASHINGTON AND 
HAMILTON AND JEFFERSON.
ALL HAVE BEEN REDISCOVERED AND 
CELEBRATED RIGHTLY.
BASICALLY DROVE OPPOSITION PARTY
OUT OF BUSINESS.
AND SO I WANT TO TRY TO FIGURE 
OUT WHAT KIND OF A POLITICIAN.
HOW DID HE PROJECT ENOUGH SENSE 
OF CONFIDENCE AND AUTHORITY TO 
BE PART OF THAT VIRGINIA 
DYNASTY?
AND TO SHAPE, ONE WAR, HE VERY 
MUCH WANTED THE WAR OF 1812 TO 
BE A WAR THE REPUBLIC WOULD BE 
PROUD OF.
AND IN DOLLARS, JUST AMAZING 
FUN.
I'M IN HOFF WITH HER. 
>> IT'S SAID IN PRESIDENTIAL 
ELECTIONS THAT THE TALLER 
CANDIDATE TENDS TO WIN.
DID HE RUN AGAINST SOMEONE 52?
>> NO.
THAT IS TYPICAL NPR 
SENSATIONALISM.
>> SO THAT IS WHAT WE'RE KNOWN 
FOR?
>> I KNOW IT. 
>> GO, GET THE CLICKS.
>> I THOUGHT IT WAS "INSIDE 
EDITION".
>> WARNING. 
>> I SAID WHAT I'M WORKING ON, 
MAINLY CHAPPED IS THAT AFTER 
HAVING DONE LYNDON JOHNSON AND 
KENNEDYS AND FDR AND TAFT, IT'S 
HARD TO FIGURE OUT WHERE I GO 
AFTER THAT.
I CAN'T GO BACK TO FILLMORE AND 
IT TAKES ME LONGER TO WRITE THE 
BOOK ABOUT WORLD WAR II THAN THE
WAR TO BE FOUGHTMENT I'M NOT 
SURE I CAN DO SOMETHING LIKE 
GEORGE WASHINGTON OR WAY BACK 
THERE.
SO, INSTEAD.
WHAT I DECIDED TO DO IS BRING MY
FOUR GUYS TOGETHER.
I PROMISED IT WOULD BE 350 
PAGES.
I FEEL LIKE IT'S EXCITING 
BECAUSE I WAS A ONCE UPON A TIME
ACADEMIC AND I DID ANALYZE 
THINGS AND I LOVED POLITICAL 
SCIENCE AND SO PART OF IT IS ARE
TRAITS INHERITED OR DEVELOPED?
I'M TAKING EACH GUIDE WHEN THEY 
FIRST RUN FOR OFFICE AND TRYING 
TO LOOK AT THEM SO THEY CAN SEE 
CONFUSION AND FEAR AND WE CAN 
IDENTIFY WITH HEM IN A WAY IT'S 
HARD TO IDENTIFY ONCE BECOMING 
PRESIDENT.
AND THEY ALL WENT THROUGH 
SOMETHING THAT CHANGED THEM.
AND FDR HAD POLIO AND LYNDON 
JOHNSON, SOUNDS LIKE IT'S NOT 
SIMILAR BUT LOST AN ELECTION FOR
HIM, SEEMED LIKE THE END OF HIS 
LIFE.
THEY COME THROUGH IT WITH A 
SENSE OF PURPOSE AND AMBITION IS
DOUBLED.
WHEN YOU GET POWER, WHAT DO YOU 
DO WITH IT?
DOES THE MAN MAKE THE TIMES OR 
TIME MAKE THE FAN?
WE'VE BEEN LUCKY RIGHT PEOPLE 
SEEM TO BE IN THE RIGHT PLACE AT
THE MOST-IMPORTANT TIME.
AND LATER, WORLD WAR II.
IT'S FUN.
I PROMISE IT WILL BE DONE BY THE
END OF THE YEAR.
IF YOU DON'T SEE ME FOR A WHILE,
IT WILL BE HAPPENING. 
>> JOHN I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU 
THE LAST WORD.
IS IT TIME LIKE THIS IN THE NEWS
A GOOD TIME TO WRITE ABOUT THE 
PAST?
HE I THINK SO.
THE FUTURE IS UNKNOWABLE.
BUT THE PAST SHOULD GIVE HOPE.
OUR STORY IS OBSTACLES OVERCOME.
WE SHOULDN'T LOOK UP FROM 
FIGURES OF THE PAST ADORINGLY OR
LOOK DOWN AND FEEL SUPERIOR TO 
THEM BUT LOOK THEM IN THE EYE.
TAKE THEM FOR WHAT THEY WERE.
AND THEN BY HUMANIZING THEM WE 
DON'T PUT THEM ON PEDESTALS.
WE'RE ABLE TO LEARN MORE FROM 
THEM.
IF THEY'RE AS DRIVEN BY APPETITE
AND SIN, AS WE ARE, AND YET, 
LEFT THE COUNTRY A LITTLE BETTER
THEN THE REST IS GONE, TOO. 
>> THANK DORIS AND JOHN.
>> THIS WAS GREAT.
REALLY FUN. 
>> WOW.
>> THIS BROADCAST OF THE 
