And that brings us to our next speaker
which is Paul Wooster from
SpaceX he's the principal Mars development engineer there and we're very excited to hear his talk on SpaceX's plans for Mars
Please welcome
Set that up there
Thank you very much for for having me here I'm
I've been actually kind of
started my interest in Mars, you know back when I
was about I guess nineteen years ago. So the Mars society is about
you know 20 years old now I missed the the first couple of
conventions but fairly quickly
gotten involved in that I met
Robert Zubrin
And really was inspired overall
by this vision for
Expanding humanity outwards into the solar system, you know having having people living and working on Mars
SpaceX as a whole is also, you know very much motivated by those types of
Objectives. I've been there for 11 years working on a variety of different programs in support of this but really excited now to be quite
Focused towards the Mars aspects of things
So in terms of some of the things that SpaceX has been doing
One of the quite recent things back in in February this year is we had the first launch of Falcon Heavy
this is the largest operational launch vehicle and
Offers a lot of capabilities in terms of enabling future robotic missions to Mars and elsewhere
(So, it's kind of a overview here) 
It's a god-awful small affair
To the girl with the mousy hair
But her mummy is yelling, "No!"
And her daddy has told her to go
But her friend is nowhere to be seen
Now she walks through her sunken dream
To the seats with the clearest view
And she's hooked to the silver screen
But the film is a saddening bore
For she's lived it ten times or more
She could spit in the eyes of fools
As they ask her to focus on
Sailors fighting in the dance hall
Oh man! Look at those cavemen go
It's the freakiest show
Take a look at the lawman
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
He's in the best selling show
Is there life on Mars?
All right, so
Obviously a very very inspirational day. We're all quite excited by that and you know, not just the launch but having our first
payload
Flying out past the orbit of Mars
This is Starman here in the, uh you know, Elon's red Tesla Roadster
it's now out past the orbit of Mars now and
Gonna be sailing around through the solar system
Until it, I guess eventually, you know
Disintegrates or you know, it gets gets ejected or what-have-you, but will be out there for millions of years. I
Obviously a very very iconic shot of the Falcon Heavy demo flight
But you know in terms of overall accomplishments this too is also, you know quite impressive SpaceX we've got started with the idea of
really reducing the cost of
Launch and enabling
much more activity to happen in space by
decreasing that cost and very much fundamental to that is the reusability of our vehicles so
What's one of the things that's impressive here is not only are these these two stages coming down and landing
But both of those stages had been used previously
so
This is not not their first flight but a second flight and now with Falcon 9
With the latest upgrade to that we're gonna be seeing even even increase
Reuse on those vehicles
Another key aspect of this is it enables the types of technologies that we'll need to land very large payloads on Mars
So in order to do that, we'll be be performing propulsive landing and and using an even larger
Vehicle when we're talking about human scale
missions there so that that brings us to the
Work that I'm doing now
focused towards
BFR or the big Falcon rocket
which has
You know, even even larger payload capability as compared to falcon heavy and not only that is fully reusable
So not only is the first stage
Reused be performing, you know similar maneuvers to what what we do with Falcon
Currently having it boost back to the launch site. But also the second stage what we call the the ship will also
Be reused both
For missions to Earth orbit and then out beyond that
We're making use of a number of lessons learned from Falcon
but then also rolling in new techniques in terms of the ways way in which we're
Manufacturing the vehicle the propellants that we're using we're gonna be using methane oxygen across the board on this
Which is again something that will help
enable reduction in cost
Improve reuse and of course in the context of Mars also allow us to make use of propellants that we can generate on the surface
Overall, the vehicle has 31 engines on the the first stage the booster and then seven on the on the upper stage the ship
and we've designed this this vehicle to not only be able to
Fly to Mars but also address a wide variety of additional markets that can really help out
Spreading the cost of having this system
brought across many customers
Zooming in on the ship down the bottom left. There's a small little person there for first scale. But basically this is the
integrated second stage combined with
payload section
So we have the propellant tanks the engines and then the payload area what we're showing here is a configuration
with a number of cabins in it for for transporting large numbers of people to
Mars we also though have large cargo doors on the vehicle and the ability to
Get payload back down both from the rear cargo compartments on it along with
Capabilities in the front we have other configurations as well for even larger
Payloads being delivering into orbit or
elsewhere on the
in this solar system the
vehicle also
You know for scale as said it there was the person there now here it is relative to a Tesla Model 3
This is the tool that we're using to build barrel sections on the vehicle
You know somewhat locally down here in San Pedro
the
You know, that's me you
You have the video great
the
Another another key element beyond building the structures is the methane oxygen propulsion as I was saying, this is one of several
You know, we've been doing a lot of testing with our Raptor methane oxygen engines
This is one one example of that there you can see the nice clean
flame
from that and
also just a demonstration that you know sort of the type of capability we have
to do long duration firings on that engine.
To go from a fully reusable
Vehicle and then and use that to extend outwards into the solar system. One of the key things we're doing is propellant transfer
So we're basically refilling the vehicle with propellant that allows us to effectively
Reset the rocket equation. So we go from getting a hundred tons or more into low-earth orbit then refill and we can take that payload
Pretty much anywhere including, you know, surface of Mars surface of the moon or elsewhere
To do that we're taking an approach that
we see as being
you know relatively low risk early on where we're
Performing active settling such that the propellant can stay over the outlets and and transfer it over more easily
And just generally speaking
Taking advantage of some of the experience we've had
with Falcon in terms of having liquid oxygen on board and long-duration Coast along with all of our experience with Dragon for
rendezvous and docking and then, you know other work that's that's happened to
understand these types of
behaviors and
Because we're able to fill out the tanks again
That can allow us to do all sorts of different missions so we can deploy
Large satellites, whether they're in low Earth orbit or elsewhere at the Lagrange points and so on
I think that'll have a number of opportunities in terms of you know
Future telescopes and other missions having a 9 metre diameter fairing is quite helpful there
We're able to support
Various on-orbit activities as well. You know, it's a cargo and crew transport and then
The way we're developing this system is its able to you know?
Not only go to Mars, but also the surface of the Moon and that's where their common
vehicle
So it's not something where we need to develop something that's dedicated to one destination or the other
but we can take advantage of all that work and
achieve many different missions
That said I think the primary interest of people here in this room is down the bottom-right
for landing landing on Mars
So the way in which we do that is we fill the vehicle up with propellant after we've launched it on
Into orbit, we can basically get all that propellant up there with through a series of tanker flights
Those are very similar to the ship that will be carrying cargo or people but just taking up propellant to fill up the vehicle
But once that ship is filled up it would it would fly to Mars
performs a narrow capture or direct entry
Lands, and then we use in situ propellant production. So using local resources
water from the ground co2 from the atmosphere combined with power to achieve the
Process of making the oxygen and methane propellant for return of the vehicle. Ah s-
this is kind of a pretty busy chart but it lists out a number of the key features of how
we've been
able to focus on an architecture that allows us to get to Mars with a low cost and
Really to minimize the amount of development needed to make that happen
So the full reuse is certainly, you know, critical to allow this decrease in cost
But similarly we're also minimizing the number of elements that we need to develop in order to make early missions happen
You know as we go forward there may be
you know future efficiency improvements that we'll make but we're very much focused on getting to Mars as quickly as possible and getting
You know set up with a robust surface presence there
So that's how we we get to Mars
That said you know while we SpaceX are very much focused on the transportation
you know everything that's gonna happen on the surface is quite important too.
Okay, so
In terms of what what will be needed on Mars. This is an area where SpaceX is quite interested in the capabilities here, but also
something where I think a lot of people beyond just SpaceX can really contribute to
these types of capabilities
One of the critical things you'll have to decide before you you go is where do you want to live?
You know
you what you want to have a place that you can land in safely so that really gets to a number of the hazards and
Whatnot that you have to address there
That's how once you're there you want to have useful things. So the types of resources that you'll have available to you early on
Water most likely in the form of ice is a pretty critical one, but then you know other other
resources as you move forward and then just other things that will affect you there in terms of temperature and and
And dust and other mobility considerations along with probably just having interesting things to do as well
So we should certainly heard the number of you know things going on with Rovers and quite exciting as people get there as well. So
Some some of the things that we're looking at in terms of
You know different regions on Mars. We're very much
For these missions looking for things that will have significant quantities of water ice. We we've looked at a number of different
locations in support of that. There is very strong evidence for
Quite significant quantities of water in the mid-latitudes. We basically, you know, there's definitely ice up in the near the poles but
balancing that against power and thermal
Considerations and just general operational aspects would try to get you down closer to the equator
But there are a number of regions where between morphological evidence
radar measurements and then even in some cases
Being able to directly image ice following a fresh impact crater
We're able to really determine that there is large quantities of ice and in these areas that said there will also be opportunities
to further define that
going forward and then of course some of these other considerations
For what will be needed there on the surface
including the safe landing aspect which again can you know rule out a site that was otherwise
Looking great from resources and other considerations
So once you
Have a site in mind you would start start sending missions there. We we're looking in terms of our overall
Plan for this. Now, the timeline here is you know, a very sort of aspirational
Version of things but as early as 2022 sending initial set of cargo flights
We have the system set up such that we can send
multiple vehicles per opportunity, so
Normally sending at least two cargo missions. They would be you know, in terms of some of the objectives there is really:
confirm water resources and the locations that you're interested in and then
determine any hazards for future missions and then
start to put in place some of the infrastructure that you'll need
Subsequently in the following opportunities. So basically the opportunities to go to Mars are about every two years
26 months just based on the relative
motion of the planets I would send two more cargo ships and then also
two two ships with the first people to go to Mars where they would be really focused on getting
the initial outpost set up get going on all the resource work that will be needed to
Both provide propellant along with expand the base for future
activities there
in terms of some of the questions about
resources understanding that both vertical and
Horizontal distribution is quite important when you get there knowing if you know you're dealing with relatively pure ice or something. That's a mix of
regolith and ice or what other things you have to deal with will be certainly quite important
But then, you know beyond those resources for the infrastructure the
Thing we want to look at. This is not just something that will
be useful early on it's something that can expand out and
allow you to
Go from probably living out of the ships to begin with then building out habitation and landing pads and so on
These these are things we're having a very significant
cargo mass and volume that that the bfr provides we believe will be quite helpful and
Something where having that type of capability can also simplify the development that you'll need to get going at the beginning
So
You know with that the idea would be to expand out
you know, start off not just with an outpost but grow into a
larger
You know, base or, you know, really get to sort of something, you know, that that's not just a base like there are in Antarctica
but really, you know, a village or town growing into a city and then
multiple cities on Mars
So the types of capabilities that you'll need there early on there'll be things like resource extraction, getting surface power established
Developing, you know, construction, you know, setting up landing pads
habitats greenhouses and so on
And then, you know, all the capabilities you'll need to have a growing population
on the surface, so
You know, other, other things that will be necessary. Things like more
additional life support both using local resources along with recycling
And having things like surface mobility you can see here
You know, a pressurized Rover but there's also, you know, some people there on the surface
operating
You know, in surface suits, you know, beyond just a spacesuit but, you know, something that can work really well down on the surface another
critical item to have
moving forward with this
And then, you know, there's also questions just about what will, what will people be doing there? You know, what will they
How will they be living and working?
And we heard some about all the type of science
The Rovers have been doing on Mars. Having the people there will really greatly expand, expand those
Learn more about the history of Mars
geology climate and so on and then really dive in
You know, quite deeply, in some cases literally in, you know, in terms of going subsurface
For looking at questions, like, you know, did life ever arise on Mars is there life there currently and so on
So these types of things are really opportunities for, you know, pretty much anyone in the broader
you know Mars related community to engage in. SpaceX is really focused on getting the transportation architecture set up and
achieving that as quickly as we can. It's really to enable all these types of activities there as well. So I'd certainly
Encourage people who are able to contribute there to do so. So with that, I'm happy to take any questions
Thank you
Think we gonna have the mic come around or
You know, just speak speak loudly and then I'll
That's loud
Um
We've heard a lot this week about what SpaceX can do for us
how is SpaceX benefiting from the work that the Mars Society is doing and
What can we do further to contribute to
what SpaceX is doing?
Well, yeah, I mean the mars society as a whole
Over the 20 years. I think it's done a lot in terms of helping inspire people to you know
Do what will be needed to get to Mars. As I said it's been inspirational to me
From a technical perspective. It's always interesting to see all the different work that you know various people are doing to
Help out with or determine various ways to do things on Mars. Certainly the all the analog work that the Mars Society
Has done is also an area that can help inform
What types of things you'd want to be doing while you're on the surface? How you would operate in a remote
Environment and with, you know, significant latency in terms of communication with Earth. There's a lot of
potential there
Hi, yeah, I have a couple questions about the bfr spaceship
first question is
how long do you think eventually it will take to be able to turn that around and send it back to earth because I think
Musk had originally announced that he would
Have the plan of returning these spacecraft during the same synodic cycle
So you can reuse it for the next launch window
and my other question is
Can you give us an update on how many tanker flights are needed to refill the BFS in orbit in order to get it on?
Its way to Mars
Alright, so yeah, the the overall approach with with these ships is, you know early on they're very valuable on the surface of Mars
so you
likely would be actually having most most of the ships stay you'd be operating out of them using the various systems on them to
for the activities there and then
You know really extend your returning ships. It would be in the case that you're bringing people back
and
Using them for those purposes. So yeah, very very much early on they'd be staying there, you know
indefinitely
As you move forward to further reduce the cost
It is advantageous to be able to use those ships multiple times after
Basically the value of bringing them back to earth and and flying them there exceeds the the value that they have on the surface
So it'll be something where that reuse interval think will and reuse fraction will shift over time
But even more importantly just the full reuse here at Earth and doing things like the propellant transfer
vastly reduces the cost versus trying to do this all in a single launch or
in a more expendable fashion in terms of the number of tanker flights is really I
Curved between the Delta V and payload that you'd want to have on that
that there's actually a whole slew of information up on our website at SpaceX.com/mars that will provide some
information there and then the trade
Becomes number of tanker flights versus amount of payload and how quickly you you want to travel there. I
I may have missed this, but did you say or can you say how much mass? Can we get to the surface of Mars?
I mean
I know you just talked about payload versus fuel (right!) but what would be the mass capacity of one of these rockets to get?
Cargo and people to Mars and can you compare that for reference?
To say the Curiosity rover, which is the largest thing we've landed there.
Sure yes, so the
vehicle is being designed to deliver at least
100 tons of useful
Payload, so that's in addition to the ship and all of its systems to the surface of Mars. So, you know that's in comparison to
curiosity, which is around
One ton
You know, this this vehicle is really something that's geared towards I'm not just you know doing science missions or even a small
You know
human human mission, but you know something that will enable, you know hundreds thousands and so on people to eventually
get there
Have heard they're getting ready to start
Doing some second stage testing at South Texas is wonder if there was any progress on those plans
So we're gonna have something that's actually like a second stage or just a framework with some tanks and engines on it
yes, overall the plan there is that we're going to focus in on the the ship that second stage, get that going because that
really is the critical item, having that fully reausable
vehicle and we're looking to do some
hot testing it, you know it down in South Texas as you're mentioning so similar to what we did as we were learning about
Recovery on the first stage of Falcon we're gonna do somewhat similar things and then build up our experience there with the ship
Thank you for coming sir
our government is currently looking at spending five billion a year to put in orbit around the moon a
Station that will be used one month out of a year
the spacex considered
Testing the space worthiness of this by landing one on the moon and renting it out for maybe two billion a year. I
Mean I think they're there many capabilities this vehicle will offer, you know, whether it's supporting on-orbit activities
or activities on the surface of the moon
Overall, I mean having a base on the surface would be quite quite valuable, you know
It can be you know similar to what what stan done in antarctica having a you know permanent research
capability there and then also enabling
Opportunities for people to fly, you know to and from the moon
Would certainly be interesting and the way we're developing this system
It's something where we don't need to, you know, choose either the moon or mars we can do both
Okay, I think we're out of time. Thank you
