ffssixtynine



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Sr. MemberActivity: 364Merit: 250 Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings November 01, 2013, 08:17:08 PM #1302 All kinds of bitcoin companies and investments would be in trouble if someone decided to waste 100s of millions trying to send the price right down. In practice that would be very difficult to do for long. Critique by all means, but be sensible about it. Yes it may happen but that is an extreme case. If one believes it too likely, one would not invest in bitcoin at all.



Asking about a basic hedging strategy is fine but there has already been a reasonable amount of discussion. The reality is that NEOBEE does rely primarily on a stable or rising exchange rate in the short and medium term. If bitcoin falls much in the medium term then NEOBEE will fail, but then it also likely means bitcoin has failed. It's also like asking what happens if lots of people decide to empty their bank accounts - a bank run will take any bank out. NEOBEE are no different. If the price falls too much for too long before they have got sufficient resources put away and then they can't fulfill the obligations, they will have a problem.



Your other question is a pure practical one which one can answer by properly reading the materials and posts.



This is beginning to read like an exercise in trolling. In the securities section. Again. For a change.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 298Merit: 250 Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings November 01, 2013, 08:21:06 PM #1303 Quote from: spinoff on November 01, 2013, 08:14:16 PM Quote from: ex-trader on November 01, 2013, 08:01:25 PM Please answer with a simple yes or no.



I'll answer you: read the prospectus. More carefully if you have allready. You could even read the first 10 or so pages of the thread and save us all reading over and over the same questions that cryptocyprus has allready answered

I'll answer you: read the prospectus. More carefully if you have allready. You could even read the first 10 or so pages of the thread and save us all reading over and over the same questions that cryptocyprus has allready answered

I've read the prospectus, I know the answer, I just want an official real answer to a simple question, so I can make my point clear.



Either they can prove me wrong or right, I just want the truth and to get that I want them to answer the question. If they will not engage in a simple debate to attempt to prove me wrong with simple facts, then that alone speaks volumes to me. I've read the prospectus, I know the answer, I just want an official real answer to a simple question, so I can make my point clear.Either they can prove me wrong or right, I just want the truth and to get that I want them to answer the question. If they will not engage in a simple debate to attempt to prove me wrong with simple facts, then that alone speaks volumes to me.

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NewbieActivity: 41Merit: 0 Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings November 01, 2013, 08:58:45 PM #1307 Quote from: ex-trader on November 01, 2013, 08:21:06 PM Quote from: spinoff on November 01, 2013, 08:14:16 PM Quote from: ex-trader on November 01, 2013, 08:01:25 PM Please answer with a simple yes or no.



I'll answer you: read the prospectus. More carefully if you have allready. You could even read the first 10 or so pages of the thread and save us all reading over and over the same questions that cryptocyprus has allready answered

I'll answer you: read the prospectus. More carefully if you have allready. You could even read the first 10 or so pages of the thread and save us all reading over and over the same questions that cryptocyprus has allready answered

I've read the prospectus, I know the answer, I just want an official real answer to a simple question, so I can make my point clear.



Either they can prove me wrong or right, I just want the truth and to get that I want them to answer the question. If they will not engage in a simple debate to attempt to prove me wrong with simple facts, then that alone speaks volumes to me.

I've read the prospectus, I know the answer, I just want an official real answer to a simple question, so I can make my point clear.Either they can prove me wrong or right, I just want the truth and to get that I want them to answer the question. If they will not engage in a simple debate to attempt to prove me wrong with simple facts, then that alone speaks volumes to me.

Of course you cannot take possession of the bitcoin you numskull, at least not while your account is valued at your EUR deposit amount. otherwise you as the depositor would have access to 100% of the short term upside potential (withdraw the bitcoin) with none of the short term downside risk (leave the deposit in).

If you want to abandon your EUR pegged position than buy a bitcoin and be done with it. Of course you cannot take possession of the bitcoin you numskull, at least not while your account is valued at your EUR deposit amount. otherwise you as the depositor would have access to 100% of the short term upside potential (withdraw the bitcoin) with none of the short term downside risk (leave the deposit in).If you want to abandon your EUR pegged position than buy a bitcoin and be done with it.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 279Merit: 250 Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings November 01, 2013, 09:10:54 PM #1308 You guys are so quick to jump down ex-trader's throat. Slow down.



Yes this question has been posed many, many times, but the point still remains: the business model cryptocyprus is trying to pull off is HARD, and trading your way through heavy dips in price will be a site to see.



Even if they have what they think is a successful trading model (which they won't share because it's their secret sauce), there is still the possibility they will not be able to handle what they thought they could. Point being, pegged accounts are not a sure bet, no matter how good of a trader you are. This is a scary proposition, so no amount of spreadsheets with possible scenarios should quell the prudent investor.

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LegendaryActivity: 1025Merit: 1000 Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings November 01, 2013, 09:31:34 PM #1311 Quote from: ex-trader on November 01, 2013, 08:22:35 AM Quote from: bittymitty on October 31, 2013, 09:19:31 PM

Where in the prospectus does it say NEOBEE will withhold the information about the business model? The customer has a choice in having a BTC or EUR denominated account. The customer is going to be offered a fixed interest rate on EUR denominated account so they will benefit from a BTC/EUR increase.



Go back and read the prospectus(hint:this is where the shareholders are informed of the business model).







Show me exactly in the prospectus where it says that retail customers will be told explicitly that their money will be invested in BTC, but that the majority of the upside is kept by Neo, but in the event of BTC falling that Neo will be unable to pay them back.



Customers are not stupid and they'll work this out over time as Neo keep 'adjusting' how many Bitcoins they own via a nonsensical 'peg'......

Show me exactly in the prospectus where it says that retail customers will be told explicitly that their money will be invested in BTC, but that the majority of the upside is kept by Neo, but in the event of BTC falling that Neo will be unable to pay them back.Customers are not stupid and they'll work this out over time as Neo keep 'adjusting' how many Bitcoins they own via a nonsensical 'peg'......

That isnt the industry standard. Do you think banks sit down and tell customers they gamble their funds on bad mortgages? I think your standards are unrealistic. No bank in the world operates how you expect neobee to. That isnt the industry standard. Do you think banks sit down and tell customers they gamble their funds on bad mortgages? I think your standards are unrealistic. No bank in the world operates how you expect neobee to.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 280Merit: 250IIIIII====II====IIIIII Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings November 01, 2013, 09:56:56 PM #1313 Quote from: ffssixtynine on November 01, 2013, 08:17:08 PM All kinds of bitcoin companies and investments would be in trouble if someone decided to waste 100s of millions trying to send the price right down. In practice that would be very difficult to do for long. Critique by all means, but be sensible about it. Yes it may happen but that is an extreme case. If one believes it too likely, one would not invest in bitcoin at all.



Asking about a basic hedging strategy is fine but there has already been a reasonable amount of discussion. The reality is that NEOBEE does rely primarily on a stable or rising exchange rate in the short and medium term. If bitcoin falls much in the medium term then NEOBEE will fail, but then it also likely means bitcoin has failed. It's also like asking what happens if lots of people decide to empty their bank accounts - a bank run will take any bank out. NEOBEE are no different. If the price falls too much for too long before they have got sufficient resources put away and then they can't fulfill the obligations, they will have a problem.



Your other question is a pure practical one awhich one can answer by properly reading the materials and posts.



This is beginning to read like an exercise in trolling. In the securities section. Again. For a change.



Good response but you are not seeing the big picture which is that neobee is not any other btc stock, and, global finance is a players game. If neo took a significant portion of peoples savings in Cyprus then it will be a globally significant event. Neo would be destroyed over a period of months through market manipulation of the price of btc while the banking system created its own neobee type infrastructure and made plans to adopt btc into the mainstream.



It might well cost a few hundreds of millions but have you seen how much a global bank turns over never mind the funds available to the Fed. All that money could be made back with a pump on btc.



There may be room for new btc based banks to evolve into the fixed, monopolized market that is global finance but only if they are immune or safeguarded from attack from the old guard. Neobee is not safe because a temporary dive in btc can kill it. It has no firewall. For the big boys a temporary dip would be child's play. So if neo is a success it will be crushed into dust. They are playing in the big boys sandpit. And these boys are amongst the dirtiest, most ruthless and immoral operators on the planet.

Good response but you are not seeing the big picture which is that neobee is not any other btc stock, and, global finance is a players game. If neo took a significant portion of peoples savings in Cyprus then it will be a globally significant event. Neo would be destroyed over a period of months through market manipulation of the price of btc while the banking system created its own neobee type infrastructure and made plans to adopt btc into the mainstream.It might well cost a few hundreds of millions but have you seen how much a global bank turns over never mind the funds available to the Fed. All that money could be made back with a pump on btc.There may be room for new btc based banks to evolve into the fixed, monopolized market that is global finance but only if they are immune or safeguarded from attack from the old guard. Neobee is not safe because a temporary dive in btc can kill it. It has no firewall. For the big boys a temporary dip would be child's play. So if neo is a success it will be crushed into dust. They are playing in the big boys sandpit. And these boys are amongst the dirtiest, most ruthless and immoral operators on the planet.

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Hero MemberActivity: 518Merit: 500 Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings November 01, 2013, 10:07:02 PM #1314 Quote from: lightbox on November 01, 2013, 10:00:31 PM https://www.havelockinvestments.com/20131101-announcement.php



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE



November 1, 2013 - Havelock Investments (HavelockInvestments.com), a leading Bitcoin Denominated Investment Fund, announced today that it has executed a definitive agreement to be acquired by The Panama Fund, S.A, a fully licensed and registered Panamanian Investment Company.



The acquisitions creates the world's first, fully licensed, Bitcoin Denominated Fund Exchange, where companies from around the world will be able to raise capital directly, through the exclusive use of Bitcoins.



With this acquisition HavelockInvestments.com will be able to maintain its current Funds, as well as expand its operations, while attracting new opportunities in the rapidly expanding Bitcoin Marketplace.



The original HavelockInvestments.com team will remain in place and will play a key role in the future growth of the company.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASENovember 1, 2013 - Havelock Investments (HavelockInvestments.com), a leading Bitcoin Denominated Investment Fund, announced today that it has executed a definitive agreement to be acquired by The Panama Fund, S.A, a fully licensed and registered Panamanian Investment Company.The acquisitions creates the world's first, fully licensed, Bitcoin Denominated Fund Exchange, where companies from around the world will be able to raise capital directly, through the exclusive use of Bitcoins.With this acquisition HavelockInvestments.com will be able to maintain its current Funds, as well as expand its operations, while attracting new opportunities in the rapidly expanding Bitcoin Marketplace.The original HavelockInvestments.com team will remain in place and will play a key role in the future growth of the company.

ffssixtynine



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Sr. MemberActivity: 364Merit: 250 Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings November 01, 2013, 10:29:49 PM #1315 Minerpart, that doesn't actually make business sense.



In this case it'd be cheaper and more sensible to just buy the company or compete. I fully expect both to happen if bitcoin becomes a disruptive influence. Pure business decision. NEOBEE will know this full well as do the professional investors in it. NEOBEE aren't doing anything that others can't do but if they make it work they will profit, one way or another.



If NEOBEE fails it won't be because of some banking conspiracy of that kind. Much more likely, if this is how you think, that they would make it politically difficult to expand internationally or pressure merchants not to accept bee (which would have major ramifications at the EU Commission but could happen). In both cases it would be a delaying tactic for 1-2 years whilst they sort their shit out. That is possible but it depends upon a lot of other factors.



Neobee's model has significant risks but quantifying investment risks is something that amateur bitcoin investors seem to be rather poor at. Banks ganging up to fuck over the bitcoin exchange rate is possible but very unlikely, and is a problem for bitcoin rather than NEOBEE (ie forget about bitcoin if you think they will do this).



NEOBEE's risks are considerable, not least getting sufficient customers, merchants, technical implementation, and being able to operate as planned (due to regulation). Banks or institutions tanking bitcoin? Barely makes the list.

minerpart



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Sr. MemberActivity: 280Merit: 250IIIIII====II====IIIIII Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings November 01, 2013, 11:08:51 PM #1316 All valid points but tanking price is what these people do every day, many of them are career market manipulators with billions in funds behind them. If they wanted to buy neo they would turn it to dust first, then buy it out for 5% its previous value.



For share holders it may then succeed but odds wise I would put this in the hundred to one stakes overall. Yes largely because of the mass adoption issue which is their first and biggest struggle. If it gets there the next hurdle is financial attack from every corner of the western world. You'd need Steven Seagal for even half a chance and I don't think even he would fancy the risk.