Stratics Veteran

Seriously, one of the biggest impediments to actually implementing a classic shard is making something that would be worthwhile to the classic sharders. As such, to help the Dev Team out I propose all the classic sharders start debating on which classic features should be included. If you want a classic shard, let the community hammer out a consensus of what the shard should be like.

Stratics Veteran

They will never achieve what we had back when there were five shards and thousands of players, because they have 27 shards now. The player base would never be the size and we wouldn't have people of various dialects requiring translation servers. The community is what made the "classic shard".

We also had situations that started to require community of players to guard miners or hunt reds in dungeons to guard people hunting for resources like feathers.

We had armour that was so different and trust in community to repair the armor.

I have to agree. Defining what constitutes "classic" is the first hurdle, and no one will be able to get beyond it because everyone will have a different opinion on how high and how wide that first hurdle should be.

Stratics VeteranStratics LegendCampaign Supporter

No Trammel, no item properties, no item insurance... preferrably pre-UOR but that is open to debate. I'm sure everyone's definition of "classic" is a little different, but I think the 3 main areas that I named should be the core differences between a classic and current shard. I can say for sure that I would play that shard and I have a few friends that would return to try it as well. It is great to hear that the team is finally considering the idea!

Stratics Veteran

"Classic", to me, means T2A. But quite honestly, I don't know if I would really want to go back.

Long ago, I dearly loved a certain old farmhouse (in the real world). I wouldn't find it as comfortable today and would have difficulty living in it without the modern conveniences I've gotten used to over the years.

Of course, UO isn't that farmhouse, and UO players who really desire to go back to another age should probably be given the opportunity to do so if that is at all possible.

Stratics Veteran

t2a era would be the ideal classic shard, but anything pre-AoS would also be classic.

The question is, what is the turning point? IMO Ren is the cut off for classic/modern UO. With Trammel the shard could not be truly classic (the game changed forever, for the worse, with the introduction of Trammel), thus t2a era is ideal. Just Britannia (what we now call Fel) and The Lost Lands, nothing more. No classic shard could be truly classic wihtout having the single facet system.

Apart from not having Tram, the other thing that a classic shard must have is the old pre-AoS item system.

If someone can pinpoint when dupers ran wild, then go right before that.

Before Ebaying items became the norm.

When people depended on each other... and formed townships, solid guilds and C-O-M-M-U-N-I-T-Y.

Of note: A Siege-like shard without insurance or "Siege Bless", magical arties dropping with every major spawn kill (make them RARE dammit!) and the Crafter was the center of the community - for without a friend as a Crafter you sure as hell had a hard time getting good items

Pre-AOS, definitely. AOS was when they changed all the weapons and armor, put in power scrolls, changed the way all the skills worked so that magic resist didn't resist all magic, meditation didn't always work at GM, you needed 120 magery to not fizzle instead of GM, the odds of making an exceptional plate chest at GM decreased from 50% to 5%, PvP was unbalanced, crafting was ruined, the weapons and armor became a mismatched, overcomplicated mess, gave the NPC vendors a lobotomy so we couldn't lure them out of town and kill them and stopped them from having items in their backpacks that could be stolen, changed all of the monster loot tables so that they were all in the RNG system instead of each monster having a separate loot table, installed the massively overcomplicated BOD system, made every monster corpse spawn random junk, instead of most of them just having gold, changed the loot system for treasure chests so that even the level 6 chests mostly just produce junk items that would spawn on a skeleton, stopped mages from needing regs, made lockpickers fail most of the time at GM skill level, made all the crafting tools wear out after a number of uses, while introducing PoF so that the weapons and armor we made never wear out, introduced overpowered artifacts that only a few tamers could get for the whole first year, etc., etc., etc.; basically, if anything worked well, they "fixed" it till it didn't.

I liked the UO:R additions of chivalry and necro, but they did unbalance PvP somewhat. I also liked the concept of insurance, but NOT the way it was implemented. I would have much preferred an extremely expensive, hard-to-get item bless deed like the spring cleaning '99 ones.

t2a era would be the ideal classic shard, but anything pre-AoS would also be classic.

The question is, what is the turning point? IMO Ren is the cut off for classic/modern UO. With Trammel the shard could not be truly classic (the game changed forever, for the worse, with the introduction of Trammel), thus t2a era is ideal. Just Britannia (what we now call Fel) and The Lost Lands, nothing more. No classic shard could be truly classic wihtout having the single facet system.

Apart from not having Tram, the other thing that a classic shard must have is the old pre-AoS item system.

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I agree with this. No tram and pre-aos. Thats all i want. Main lands and T2A, magic weapons/armor that need to be id'd ect ect ect... I think all us Classic shard people could agree this constitutes as the real Classic UO style. If its gonna happen we all need to agree or at least come to a compromise we can all agree on. But really i think i could agree on any time before Tram and AoS.

1) No Trammel. A good community is built on mutual trust. As in, "I trust you not to kill me as soon as we step outside the city gates." (Also, this is small and silly, but if it was going to be Felucca rules, I'd like it if it was still the Trammel landscape; Desolation is no fun.)

2) No artefacts. None at all. Go back to player-crafted items and armour, vanquishing blades, magical weapons. No, people won't like this and it might not be a good thing to implement, but damn it, I like it (and I think it's a valuable part of what made UO classic.)

3) A team of Sages working under a dedicated EM. Only the EM can create items (and, as always in the program, they need Mesanna's permission); the Sages are volunteers with limited powers, but enough to create their own reward-free mini-events for anybody who wants to join in. A lot can be done with just a couple of people roleplaying and the ability to cast moongates. If this shard is not item-driven, something else must be added to attract enough people for the community to develop; this might not be it, but it's what I'd do.

4) No character transfers, advanced characters, blessing, or item insurance. Also, no custom housing. I love custom housing, but GOD DAMN IT THOSE BRICKBOXES

5) Emphasis on community. How do you get a bunch of community-minded players together? I don't know. If I knew, I'd do it for my shard. But start with disposing of Trammel, then form an enthusiastic event team to lure players and let the classic playstyle attract whom it will.

6) A willingness by EA to humour the shard and not dump it due to low population, because this is a niche market and the shard will never be Atlantic-sized.

Note: These are just my opinions; I'm not a dev, I'm not a businessman and I'm not particularly intelligent, so they may make the shard crash and burn.

Somehow that turned from mid-post "define a classic shard" to "HOW TO MAKE A ROLEPLAYING SHARD, GUYZ, LET'S DO THIS." Sorry about that.

(7: Elect me to rule over you as your queen. ALL SHALL LOVE ME AND DESPAIR)

Stratics Veteran

Meh!
Pre Aos simply because I played a few months and then Age o **** hit and I had to relearn the game.
No tramm YES! But then again I play Siege. I love my useless decco and blessed crap but I hate item based combat.

The further you go back, the more terrible designs will be unfixed.
As someone said earlier, Archery used to be crap for PvP.
Tamers with swarms of dragons?
How about all the other imbalanced rubbish that everyone's forgotten about?

You can't go back in time, and keep the good bits that came since, and still call it a classic shard. It'll end up being a hybrid, which will leave a bunch of the people who weren't pissed off by the era chosen, pissed off by the "fixes".

Stratics VeteranAlumni

There's always a problem in picking a specific period - the old days weren't perfect. But the current UO is IMO far from perfect too, so I don't have a problem with even the faults of the past. We never managed real balance that suited all and we never will. And it wouldn't be UO if it was perfect and bug free

I'd say at least pre AoS, ideally pre Tram too. We won't get UO back as it was back then, but I'd probably be tempted to play there just to get away from all the crap formula crunching, broken Fel dungeons and other "features" that clutter today's UO.

Seriously, one of the biggest impediments to actually implementing a classic shard is making something that would be worthwhile to the classic sharders. As such, to help the Dev Team out I propose all the classic sharders start debating on which classic features should be included. If you want a classic shard, let the community hammer out a consensus of what the shard should be like.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Meh!
Pre Aos simply because I played a few months and then Age o **** hit and I had to relearn the game.
No tramm YES! But then again I play Siege. I love my useless decco and blessed crap but I hate item based combat.

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I agree with AEowyn. My concept of a classic shard is PRE TWINKIE ITEMISED UO, also pre trammel.

My original QZ had only gm swords, gm archery etc. nothing was more fun than even my miner layin the smacketh down with his own gm smithed halley and actually winning a fight. . when SKILL seemed to be more useful at pvping than twinkie itemised items that folks feel they now, all must have and need to pvp with.

How can any newer player compete with milliondollas suits to fight with when they barely have 10k gp in their banks ? Back then once a customer got their skills up, maybe they would feel they *needed* a valorite archer suit, and gm halley or wep...and we NEEDED our blacksmiths to fix things but they could compete sooner than never or later !

I have not pvp'd since AOS doubt I will cuz I would need a degree in MATH %%%%%%%%%%%% and be a lot richer to own faction arties marties blahties and items to fight with and of course HIGHER SPEED to compete at all. BLEH..............a classic shard where pvping was get your skills up, get a great wep and go FIGHT .....not go farm for hours make millions of gp FIRST to maybe get a suit worth a flip to fight with is my concept of classic shard...skill based more than twinkie item based pvping !

NOW I leave pvping up to the lil younger *newer than me* customers whom are math wizzards %%%%%%%%%% who got the time to read every piece they got on em for % and can afford the millions they have to suit up with or hours of farming junk to fight with....and have it blessed insured or ...have buy backs to get into the fight again where folks co operate to sell em back their fancy SUITS...which is also *insurance* to me ! Now all ya hear is ...YOU gonna sell be back my suit *faction suit* or NOT whine cry complain anger, fine then I won't sell ya back YOUR suits...arguing...all that time to get their pricey faction itemised suits, they loose em, they gripe, they get more suits fight more loose more...be fun if they just could go KILL each other, be suitless, cheap and fight freely in a pre itemised bs, skill only based UO, again !!

Lost my first valorite suit to a pk. had to go without til I KILLED HIS butt back to not only get my suit back but HIS too !! That was pre itemised UO and I DID pvp then ! Least I didnt have to be a math professor reading %%%%% on every piece just to FIGHT ! BLEH ! So now I play crafters on Siege, I do not pvp, they kill me I don't care...sometimes I just laugh and think I am not impressed...meet me in felucca PRE ITEMS mr. or mrs. TWINKIEITEM based playa and we might see ME win a fight again. Till then ...kill me I dun care, big whoppin deal, I am not into your kinda pvping at all !

Stratics Veteran

I think people are going to be surprised at how many things they are going to lose they don't realize yet. No bonded pets, no insurance, no soulstones, 35 di on weapons. Those are just a few of the highlights...

I can't really understand why people would want to go back to that really dark time. I think they have just glamorized it to the point where it seems much better than it was. It's like thinking about all the beautiful girls you dated in high school, then looking at the pics in the yearbook and realizing they look like children.

This is just my opinion, but it wasn't better. There were people cheating then too, but not on the level it is now. We fought naked a lot because we had what 14 ac if we med'd or 32 if we wore plate and couldn't. There was a lot of skill used then to be successful. Now, we live in an item-based world. I really don't think people remember when there were 225 total stat points. A mage could cast 5 ebolts (which didn't hit for much because there was no evaluate) and then run or die. We had trouble killing gargoyles back then with mages.

This just seems like a great idea til you actually go do it. As far as resouces, who knows? They probably have copies of the old code they could just load up like they used to for our vol shards. This is something that will never go away until they do it and when they do it people might appreciate what we have now a whole lot more.

I define "classic" as pre-pub 16, but I personally would never go back to that. My best memories are about the people and not necessarily the game. Even if the game reverts a shard in some manner, it will not bring back the droves of people that played UO in the 1998-2000 timeframe.

In my opinion, the desire for a "classic" shard is akin to thinking back to the "good ole days". It always seems better in ones memory than it really was. We also have to think of the dynamics... a classic shard today will not be nearly as populated as say Atlantic or Great Lakes was back in 1999 because people are playing on the current shards and there is more competition in the MMORPG realm. If only you could roll back WoW too...

I am concerned also that attempts to develop the modern ruleset, the seige ruleset, and a classic ruleset will only dilute the efforts on all three. There remains much work to be done in the modern ruleset alone with post-SA clean-up.

Stratics VeteranStratics Legend

Much of our memories, pre AOS may be from our simple victories, within a simpler game world, that are just fond memories that can never be recreated ever again. It be like univenting the wheel !

We probably would all miss the various added on house customising, that all is after Trammel/after AOS.

There are myriads of newer stuffs and things that came into our game world we would also miss POST AOS as well, be they simply chicken lizards or a super dragon for those that love those.

EA can not uninvent the wheel, anymore than our rl world can uninvent and go back to horse and buggy days, when now rl we have rockets going off into space.

But we can miss what was, even if it was as if back in the dark ages, simply cuz things were.....simpler ! We glamorise it and miss it.

I have no doubts that they EA UO, probably could recreate such a shard. But I seriously doubt that they would have the time to maintain it, even if they made a special shard. And once upon a time back in 99, they also created a shard, just 'to' be different and unique and they have pretty much forgot it exists too.

So every time some new wonder something comes down the pike ...even Siege becomes more assimulated into being what it too was never meant to be. . patches publishes bleed thru all shards...a brand new classic shard would have to be *preserved* as it was meant to be, too, and well when ya get chr. transfer tokens on Siege for a gift on a shard where chrs. can not transfer well ...

then ya know they oft forget a shard's ID, that was supposed separate different and apart from all the rest, should be preserved and maintained as ... different... unique as it was meant to be when they created it, and the same will happen to a new *classic shard* if they made it, too.

In due time stuff would bleed thru from every patch every publish in the future coming down the pike. Said new classic shard will be hardly recoginised as what it was intended to be, in due time, it be all missmashed into something else too, just like what happened to Siege.

EA can not uninvent the wheel, well they can, but maintaining it as a unique shard unto itself, would be difficult for them, to keep up with !

To me, it's any day before UO:R (the split), I would choose just before T2A, where we still had old noto system and Dread Lords was feared.
We may need 2 classics shards, one where non con PvP are allowed and one where it's not allowed.

Would I play there, I really don't know, I loved the freedom at that time but I also love alot of what we have now.

I think the key is to find out what it is we miss so much and then try to add the old spirit to the game we have now.

I really want to see the split gone. All players should be allowed to go everywhere.
Being safe everywhere should have a price and being aggressive to everyone should have a price too.

Right now, we have 2x resources/fame in Felucca, that should count for all facets but only for the ones willing to risk dying to an other players.

Getting what you want if you play safe should be possible, but take 2 longer time.

All a classic shard is going to do is fragment an already small population. A classic shard only appeals to a small amount of peaple that was around during those times. So small shards will get smaller. This is not a good idea.

When and if it ever happens,it`ll be like Christmas toys and little kids. The excitement is brief and short lived and before long,that toys totally forgotten about at the bottom of the pile.

Seems like we already have a couple shards with low pop and on the bottom of the pile as far as dev attention. Wonder what will change with ANOTHER shard that will end up with a tiny population complaining that no ones listening to them.

I think people are going to be surprised at how many things they are going to lose they don't realize yet. No bonded pets, no insurance, no soulstones, 35 di on weapons. Those are just a few of the highlights...

I can't really understand why people would want to go back to that really dark time. I think they have just glamorized it to the point where it seems much better than it was. It's like thinking about all the beautiful girls you dated in high school, then looking at the pics in the yearbook and realizing they look like children.

This is just my opinion, but it wasn't better. There were people cheating then too, but not on the level it is now. We fought naked a lot because we had what 14 ac if we med'd or 32 if we wore plate and couldn't. There was a lot of skill used then to be successful. Now, we live in an item-based world. I really don't think people remember when there were 225 total stat points. A mage could cast 5 ebolts (which didn't hit for much because there was no evaluate) and then run or die. We had trouble killing gargoyles back then with mages.

This just seems like a great idea til you actually go do it. As far as resouces, who knows? They probably have copies of the old code they could just load up like they used to for our vol shards. This is something that will never go away until they do it and when they do it people might appreciate what we have now a whole lot more.

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An excellent post, looking at the concept from both sides of the coin. I think the main issue that many people who like the idea of a "classic" shard, seems to be that of items. Items these days seem to play more importance than skill. I think that possibly this is the single biggest reason to many who like the appeal of a "classic" shard.

There's nothing wrong to my mind, as far as items go, that a classic shard would consist of only player made items. No artifacts or uber-items, therefore no real reason for insurance. A thief or looter could make a decent living, whilst for the victim, it was not the end of the world. If there was to be any artifacts, they would be in name only for weapons/armour, or as decorative items.

The whole issue for me is about skill versus items. My own fun has diminished, because of the item-ruled world we have now. Items... yeah, great if they're for decoration, for housing, etc... when they're used as "vital" in combat, then they negate the point of skills and change the dynamics of the game completely. It's this direction that's diminished my own overall enjoyment of the game.

The concept of any "official" classic shard would be a good addition, just as the concept of Siege or Mugen is. What it would give, is the option for players to choose which they play. "Classic" would be perhaps more to the liking of "veteran" players like myself, Siege/Mugen a mixture of the two, with the current production shards remaining item-based for those that prefer that. If this concept did happen, I would happily hand all my "items" to anyone who wanted them on the production shard and head over to a fresh clean start on the new "classic" shard.

Finally, insofar as maintaining a "classic" shard, with less items to maintain or introduce, surely they would actually require less developer time to maintain. As for cheating, any third party prog/speeder cheating, that's always been around until they figure out how to combat it fully... which would then happen on all servers. Duping and item cheats... what point would there be in a crafted-item-only world?

All a classic shard is going to do is fragment an already small population. A classic shard only appeals to a small amount of peaple that was around during those times. So small shards will get smaller. This is not a good idea.

When and if it ever happens,it`ll be like Christmas toys and little kids. The excitement is brief and short lived and before long,that toys totally forgotten about at the bottom of the pile.

Seems like we already have a couple shards with low pop and on the bottom of the pile as far as dev attention. Wonder what will change with ANOTHER shard that will end up with a tiny population complaining that no ones listening to them.

Stupidest idea ever. .

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Exactly right...why make another shard when they ignore SP...SP is living proof they could not keep up with another low population shard...

All a classic shard is going to do is fragment an already small population. A classic shard only appeals to a small amount of peaple that was around during those times. So small shards will get smaller. This is not a good idea.

When and if it ever happens,it`ll be like Christmas toys and little kids. The excitement is brief and short lived and before long,that toys totally forgotten about at the bottom of the pile.

Seems like we already have a couple shards with low pop and on the bottom of the pile as far as dev attention. Wonder what will change with ANOTHER shard that will end up with a tiny population complaining that no ones listening to them.

Exactly right...why make another shard when they ignore SP...SP is living proof they could not keep up with another low population shard...

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Here's a thought then.... how upset would players of SP be if they used it as a base for such a "classic" shard? Would they be too upset at the loss of items or would they leave in droves? Do you think that the inevitable loss of "item-hungry" players would be negated by the arrival of "classic-gameplay-hungry" players?

Stratics Veteran

Here's a thought then.... how upset would players of SP be if they used it as a base for such a "classic" shard? Would they be too upset at the loss of items or would they leave in droves? Do you think that the inevitable loss of "item-hungry" players would be negated by the arrival of "classic-gameplay-hungry" players?

Unlikely to happen, but just some food for thought...

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I believe most of the Siege player base are there for the no insurance and ability to kill anyone anywhere. Not necessarily being pre pub-16...

There are a few saying Pre-Renn, however those few are forgetting that that time was when the few subscriptions were heading downward. The community was good, the everything was good, except for the rampant PKing.

Pub 15 was the last publish before Power Scrolls, when the systems of old were still around, when Discordance was still Enticement, and Item ID still ID'd magical items. You must have forgotten that there was a healthy community during the Renn era too. I remember the HUGE land-rush. I remember the tele-storms. I remember trying to find a spot in a dungeon that wasn't camped.

For a classic shard to work, there needs to be the option of consensual PVP, the PK system was NEVER fun and is what led to what everyone claims as the downfall of UO that is Trammel, but they forget the game would be as dead as Felucca if Trammel never came about.

I certainly wouldn't miss bonded pets.
I wouldn't miss Discordance.
I wouldn't miss neon colors.
I wouldn't miss needing 101% LRC + 40% LMC + bah! GM Armor set & a Katana, good to go!
I wouldn't miss "useful" Archery.
I wouldn't miss "useless" Poisoning.
I wouldn't miss Cooking needing tools like every other crafting skill.
I wouldn't miss 27-billion facets - I embellish, but still, this much landmass in a niche-game this size ...
I wouldn't miss "useless" Warriors - I miss the days of the rare Macer/Parry fighter.
I wouldn't miss the newly crafted items from Runic Tools - I miss the old ones from when Runics first came out.
I wouldn't miss the lack of community.

I would miss the crafting menus - don't remember when those were switched.
I would miss having controlled specials - only because the days of the Tribal Spear hunters sucked.
I would miss customizable housing - but I could live with it.

Just a few I could think of off the top of my head, seems the pros outweigh the cons.

All a classic shard is going to do is fragment an already small population. A classic shard only appeals to a small amount of peaple that was around during those times. So small shards will get smaller. This is not a good idea.

When and if it ever happens,it`ll be like Christmas toys and little kids. The excitement is brief and short lived and before long,that toys totally forgotten about at the bottom of the pile.

Seems like we already have a couple shards with low pop and on the bottom of the pile as far as dev attention. Wonder what will change with ANOTHER shard that will end up with a tiny population complaining that no ones listening to them.

Stupidest idea ever. .

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The beauty that was UO was the simplicity it offered. Look at the game today, you need a math degree, you need to have perfect stats. The game had a healthy population because the game was just fun back then, just. plain. fun.

Stratics Veteran

Let it be whatever, I won't be there as it will not bring back the same memories that the days gone by hold for me right now and thus would be a disappointment. I can understand the desire for it (we always want back that which we lost, even if the sands of time have smoothed out the rough edges), but I also understand that just because a "Classic Shard" existed, does NOT mean I would get back the people I once played with, the town we built, the events we ran and so on.

Also, someone posted "just put in a T2A disc"... it's not that easy as that considering that you're only getting the CLIENT (and the demo doesn;t have everything either), not the then-current SERVER code.

So one thing I KNOW a classic shard will not have... me, as I have no real interest in it. Best of luck to those that do... I hope it doesn't "suck" for you.

Stratics Veteran

Like many have already posted I would like to see a "classic" shard that did not have Power Scrolls, Item properties, insurance and I would even take a non-trammel world IF there was some ways to deal with rampant PKing.

To be honest I think the best way to achieve this goal would be a complete reboot. Take us back to 1997 and see how the shard evolves from there. (kind of like they did with the new Star Trek movie). I am sure there would be some code-behind from the current game just so the upkeep would be "manageable." Let's go all the way back, with our experience from the past 12 years, and see what happens. I think it would be a pretty cool social experiment and could be beneficial for the MMORPG industry as a whole.

Stratics Veteran

I wouldn;t be against a complete reboot (assuming that they actually FINISHED an up to date good looking and good performing client to go with it), but let's be sensible. In the Fantasy-based MMORPG genre, purely non-con PvP games have FAILED... MISERABLY, including UO. UO survived its initial release due to two things going in its favor: 1. It was the de-facto creator of the genre (it was first... yes I know the arguments for other such games, but let's be realistic here... UO was in effect the first mainstreamly successful one) and 2. It is based on a popular series, in effect, it had a fiction/series base upon which to work (instead of trying to build from the ground up).

The moment EQ came on to the scene, it shot past UO in terms of sub numbers almost immediately and stayed WELL above it for quite some time afterwards. Why? Because people left UO due to non-con PvP.

Later attempts have also been steaming piles of nothing built on the premise that non-con PvP was popular. Shadowbane was going to "Play to crush!" and Darkfall was the perpetual Vapourware and upon it's much touted (finally) release, it's been... a dud.

Like it or not, people prefer the CHOICE of being involved in a world of PvP or not (especially if that world includes losing everything you're carrying on you), and a reboot of UO would have to include that choice in some way either by segregation by shards or segregation by areas in the shards if they plan on it being successful.

For a classic shard to work, there needs to be the option of consensual PVP, the PK system was NEVER fun and is what led to what everyone claims as the downfall of UO that is Trammel, but they forget the game would be as dead as Felucca if Trammel never came about.

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Just as I said above.
I hope they take it a step further and make the world Trammel-only (t2a included under that ruleset), but bring back Order/Chaos and let that be the PVP Switch.

Stratics Veteran

I would love for this game to go back to pre-16 with the bells and whistles added:
Focus
Pet Bonding
House Customization
The gauntlet (but in an existing dungeon, perhaps another level was found, or the DF took over Khaldun) - this one not so much for the drops, but for the teamwork it involves (I'd love to see the team here come up with a monster that doesn't 1-hit KO you but still requires teamwork)
All the good stuff.

Then, once that has happened, sure keep like 3 devs on here working on new stuff here and there, but get everyone else onto UO 2 .. wait, UXO .. wait, a new client that can compete with today's graphically oriented games and still holds the essence of what UO is (minus housing, I don't think you could have 3D housing with all the variable tiles UO has today)

Stratics Veteran

I wouldn;t be against a complete reboot (assuming that they actually FINISHED an up to date good looking and good performing client to go with it), but let's be sensible. In the Fantasy-based MMORPG genre, purely non-con PvP games have FAILED... MISERABLY, including UO. UO survived its initial release due to two things going in its favor: 1. It was the de-facto creator of the genre (it was first... yes I know the arguments for other such games, but let's be realistic here... UO was in effect the first mainstreamly successful one) and 2. It is based on a popular series, in effect, it had a fiction/series base upon which to work (instead of trying to build from the ground up).

The moment EQ came on to the scene, it shot past UO in terms of sub numbers almost immediately and stayed WELL above it for quite some time afterwards. Why? Because people left UO due to non-con PvP.

Later attempts have also been steaming piles of nothing built on the premise that non-con PvP was popular. Shadowbane was going to "Play to crush!" and Darkfall was the perpetual Vapourware and upon it's much touted (finally) release, it's been... a dud.

Like it or not, people prefer the CHOICE of being involved in a world of PvP or not (especially if that world includes losing everything you're carrying on you), and a reboot of UO would have to include that choice in some way either by segregation by shards or segregation by areas in the shards if they plan on it being successful.

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I don't disagree with what you are saying. I for one, am not a fan of non-con PVP. It is my biggest dislike from classic UO, but I am not sure splitting into two facets was they right way to deal with it. It was a quick fix for non-con PvP as well as housing space. I am not talking about wiping all shards for a reboot... it is one shard. If it is not your thing then pretend it does not exist and go continue to play where and how you do now. Maybe if we define the purpose of a "classic" shard then we can better define what "classic" means? If the purpose is to cater to those that DO like non-con PVP (i.e. the SP crowd) or can deal with it AND want a less item based game with the original skill choices and caps, lands and whatnot. As well as trying to attract players from the past and new blood looking for a challenge then I think the suggestion would work fine.

Perhaps a quarterly HoC-type-of-thing that allowed the players of said "classic" shard to discuss changes and issues with the Dev team helping to steer the development of the classic shard? Adding back in the things that do work in the current game (i.e. not needing house keys, house deco tool, pet bounding or whatever). Again, the current shards will continue on the path they are on now, but there would be a choice to try a classic version of the game and maybe avoid mistakes from the past and being part of the solution to the problems of old.

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