Crusader Kings II v2.3 - Horse Lords DLC is coming

Edit: Oh, and my question from my first play session. I got some kind of notification that I had a de jure claim of the county next to mine which was part of another dukedom. How do I claim this for myself? I suppose I could just declare war on them? Are there more diplomatic ways to handle this? It does "belong" to me right? Excuse my newbness.

Could be wrong, but I believe you'll just have to use the claim to go to war with them if you want to snatch it up.

yes as I understand it that is the "diplomatic" way to declare war, giving you a valid casus belli. And hopefully the emperor won't mind.. Perhaps check how much he likes you vs how much he likes whoever you're going to war against? The more peaceful way to grab a duchy would be through marriage, inheritance etc.

Sorry if I'm all wrong here; I've played more EU3 than CK2, especially lately..

Bought the game on the recent sale (day after which it dropped another 50% in price....sometimes, really...) but I'm having trouble getting it to work. It always runs the steam first time install, then crashes with "The runtime requested to terminate in an unusual way" error dialog. Tried to run it on the Macbook instead but a 2009 GPU is apparently too ancient.

I've been blessedly free of such nonsense for at least a year. Probably need a Windows re-install to get going.

Is there an easier way to gain casus belli than fabricating claims? I want the old bastard's county next to me, but have no du jure claim to it. My councilman asshole has been over there fabricating claims for what seems like forever, but i got nothing. I want a duchy, dammit!

If you own enough of a duchy, you can sieze the duchy title, and then get de jure to capture the County. You win, the Count (who's already going to hate you) will be your liege. Unfortunately unless you're a king, you don't have a good way to get him to rebell (give him the jester title) which will give you carte blanch to beat him down again, imprison or kill him, and strip his title. However, there is always assasination of his entire family line.

I am a complete newb and am just beginning to wrap my head around this game, but it seems like there are a few ways of gettings cause for war and growing your realm.

1. You can press a 'de jure' claim if you own enough (usually half) of a historically existing duchy/kingdom. Lots of starting positions are half of a duchy and so you can use this to take back your historical lands. You MAY have to also create the appropriate title. (For example, you might start as an earl and need to "promote" yourself to duke, which costs gold.)

2. You can fabricate claims with your minister. This has a pretty low chance of success depending on their skills but may be the only option in some cases.

3. You can also press claims on behalf of someone in your realm (or is it court?). This won't generally give you the lands because they won't automatically become your vassal and it certainly won't give you the title. However, the dude you help pressing the claims of will be really thankful and may submit to vassalization after the fact. ALSO, you can give them a vassal title BEFORE pressing his claims (like give him a spare county title) and THEN conquer the other place he has claims on. That way, when he wins his claim you get the new land in your realm because he's already your vassal.. Crafty, eh?

The other thing I learned as a newb is that just putting the beat down on someone only serves to make them your vassal. You don't get to claim their title and lands yourself. This is because, in the games feudal logic, you're not actually claiming their title, you're cliaming your own, that of say, a duke. Essentially you're enforcing your authority over them to raise levies and collect taxes, but not that you own the land yourself.

In order to really take control you'll need to strip their title from them. There are multiple ways of doing this and I guess you could be clever and try to arrange a matrilineal marriage or something. But the most direct way is to just strip them of it. This has some scary penalties to diplomacy with your other vassals. The trick is (at least in the game I was watching online) if you forcibely take it form them and they rebel, you don't actually get the threatened relations hit with the rest of your vassals for being a jerk. You only take the -20 hit if they sheepishly go along with it and are bullied around. I guess if you have to fight it out like men the other vassals think "all's fair in love and war" or something. I have yet to try this out myself.

And, if you're on a quest to conquer the universe, be careful about gavalkind succession, which will distribute your titles around. Primogeniture is probably easiest overall. That said, I watched a let's play where a guy uses elective alot and prefers that. The trick is that, since all the next level of titles get a vote, if you're a duke, you have to keep all the earls really happy or, better yet, keep all the earl level titles in your family or with you. That way you control all the votes. This isn't too big of a problem with smaller realms, but in bigger ones it becomes really hard to control those titles and you might find yourself screwed and your dynasty destroyed when the uppity earls vote in some hayseed from the backwoods.

Damn I love this game...

(Edit) -- Oh, and I just remembered another great newbie tip. If you're running a small realm and don't have enough warm bodies around to be ministers (or the ones you have are terrible) you can essentially create new people out of thin air. In the "Intrigue" menu there's an option to invite a holy man / noble / debutante to your court, which essentially creates a new person as a courtier for you to mess with. My little Irish duchy was running out of decent people to manipulate in my schemes, so that's an easy solution.

When I started out I tried playing as a Byzantine duke and got totally overwhelmed by all the politics going on. (You might even say they were "Byzantine..." nuck, nuck)

If you're totally new to this game I would do this:

1. Go to Ireland. Why Ireland? Because it's a quiet little backwater without an existing king or anything else going on. Also, most of the de jure claims are split up, so there's plenty of reason to go to war. Your goal will be to become King of the Emerald Isle.

2. See that big county on the West coast, Connacht? That guy is already a Duke and has claims to the county next door. Perfect.

3. Start as the Duke of Connacht. Now, open your minister screen and tell your Warden to raise troops in your home county. This will give a large bonus to your levy size, so that when the time comes you'll have a number advantage.

4. Wait a few months for the levies to build up strength.

5. Declare war on the guy next door who has the gall to be independent. Levy your larger armies and reclaim your ancestral lands. He will now be your vassal.

6. Now, you can either keep him as a vassal or find some crafty, or not so crafty, way of taking the title from him. You can simply take the title and then smack him down again when he rebels. Once he's your prisoner you can offically take the title without many repercussions. Or, play nice and marry his daughter to your son or something, or start plotting against him, whatever. But either way you're now the rightful Duke.

7. Profit!

8. No wait, now you have to find ways of inheriting or forcibly vassalizing the rest of the island. When you're in the county/titles window there's a button that will tell you who has claims on what. Browse around, try and get a claimant to come to your court, enforce his claims and then offer vassalization. Try to marry into the right families, etc. My understanding is that if you marry the daughter of the right person, her son, who is a member of your dynasty, should also inherit her claim. So collect claims, enforce them, and position yourself to be able to make larger de jure claims.

There are at least three more small de jure duchies to the East and South of you, and there's also the large Ulster duchy to the North. If you can bring two of the Ulster counties into your realm you can forcibley vassalize the rest of it.

At some point -- I'm guessing half the counties? -- you can create the King of Ireland title, promote yourself and then force the rest of the island to bend the knee. I hope that helps any other newbs out there!

Fantastic, I was actually about to come here and post that, last night before bed, for some reason I thought it would be a good time to fire up the game for the first time. After spending about 5 minutes listening to the pretty music as I cursored over different starting folks, I picked one randomly and then slowly watched in growing panic as I realized I had no idea what was going on. I was told I need progeny, but I have no idea how to do that! (Well... uh... you know what I mean). So after a few seconds of terror, I decided I would go play a few battles of Kings Bounty before bed.

So when I actually start playing, when I have actual time to invest in it, I think your starting scheme sounds handy.

Does anyone have any advice on things they didn't learn until they were a few hours in and found something they wish they knew from the beginning? I'm usually a "play the game until I figure it out" guy (making that 140 page manual/strategy guide suggestion a bit much for me) but this is a bit overwhelming.

If you find that someone in your court has claims to something, how do you go about enforcing it? I am currently playing the count of urgell, and i have around 27 people in my court and i know a couple of them have claims to stuff, but i'm not sure what.

If you find that someone in your court has claims to something, how do you go about enforcing it? I am currently playing the count of urgell, and i have around 27 people in my court and i know a couple of them have claims to stuff, but i'm not sure what.

In the character screen, it shows a person's claims, right below their titles. There will be a little icon for the places they can be claimant to. Now, if they're in your court, you should be able to go to that county, go to to diplomacy with the current owner and declare war -- it'll give you the option to "press claims on behalf of..." Sometimes you have a whole range of people to choose from. You can also go about this by working from the county/realm screen (the one with the "usurp" button.) It will tell you who has claims on any particular place you're looking at.

Remember that just because you fought and sacrificed (your poor peasants) on behalf of the claimant, he doesn't automatically become your vassal unless he was already. Hopefully he'll be so grateful you can suggest vassalization afterwards, or you can arrange for him to be a vassal before enforcing the claim.

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Does anyone have any advice on things they didn't learn until they were a few hours in and found something they wish they knew from the beginning? I'm usually a "play the game until I figure it out" guy (making that 140 page manual/strategy guide suggestion a bit much for me) but this is a bit overwhelming.

One thing for me is "Always use your ministers." They each have powerful abilities -- fabricating claims, boosting levy sizes, speeding up research, improving relations with the bishops, etc. Use these all the time. Ministers sitting on their hands aren't doing you any good.

On that last note, be sure that your court chaplain is schmoozing the bishops. Be sure that you are too, by giving them honorary titles and gifts. The reason is, bishops will always give their taxes to the pope unless they like you more than they like him. In that case, you get some of their taxes. Good relations with bishops are like free money.

Well, looks like I'm going to be doing some scheming against that old bastard in the county next door when i get home from work.

Also, is there a decent way to get someone with a good martial stat into your court? Noblemen and holy men don't help me with that one...

I had a great military guy, we both liked each other and he had good stats...but then...the perv went and got himself some syphilis and died on me. My options for replacing him are not very...pretty. I wish i could just replace him with myself because I am a 'brilliant strategist' so my martial stat is awesome. I'm the marshal my liege's council, then he died. Then his son was all like, "yo dawg, i herd you like raising levies...."

Also, is there a decent way to get someone with a good martial stat into your court? Noblemen and holy men don't help me with that one...

Marry people with high skills into your court. You can always try to snag someone who will be immediately useful, but even just snatching up super-skillful mates to pair up with people under you can have a huge impact on the next generation. Once you have some super-skillful individuals, use them to tutor children loyal to you or your likely successors. (which is even more awesome if those children are the children of your super-skillful recruits)

In the biggest game I've played so far, I had one generation of complete incompetents, so I started searching far away lands for skillful women to marry into my family and my more loyal vassals. Didn't take long to find a family with a bunch of unwanted genius daughters that didn't hate me enough to refuse to marry them off out of spite. My current generation continued to suck, but the following generation I not only have hyper-competent people in all of my cabinet positions, but I've got a *choice* of hyper competent people to pick from and with only a little bit of maintenance the overall level of competency continues to increase.

You can also use the "introduce a *foo* to the court" options for simple and immediate additions to your court, but in my experience that usually doesn't grab you someone who will be particularly useful to you.

What's the best way to decide whether or not to declare war on someone? I'm always trying to figure out my chances of actually winning and getting what i want. is it just comparing military strength or do they also hire mercenary bands and such?

I click around on their lands and try to get an idea of their levy strength. When you factor in mercenaries (which, yes, they will hire), allies (on both sides), and the possibility of an opportunistic war or revolt against you happening while you're waging the current war, though, there's a lot to think about. (to say nothing of technology, laws impacting recruitment, and other tertiary factors) I haven't really made much of a science of it.

I typically play it conservative and only fight with neighbors that are a lot smaller than me, or against same-size neighbors who are already hostile to me if I have a large cash reserve to hire mercenaries from.

As a general rule, in both times and war and peace I find it important to keep a cash reserve to hire mercenaries in case you get in over your head. I prefer to start with small nations so it takes me a while to save up for this and even then it'll only be enough to hire a single band for a few months, but as I get bigger the amount grows.

Marry people with high skills into your court. You can always try to snag someone who will be immediately useful, but even just snatching up super-skillful mates to pair up with people under you can have a huge impact on the next generation. Once you have some super-skillful individuals, use them to tutor children loyal to you or your likely successors. (which is even more awesome if those children are the children of your super-skillful recruits)

This is spot on. You can essentially engage in your own eugenics program by finding marriagable women with the right stats (stewardship is a good one, btw) and pairing them with your sons. The kids have some likelihood of inheriting stats from their parents. Then, you use one of your best leaders to educate the kids. Voila, old school genetic engineering.

You'll still get an occasional Domitian or Nero (or Aerys Targaryen!) this way, but they're likely to be a mad king with better stats.

This game sounds awesome. I have EU3 and while it always looked like it would be a blast I have never gotten into it too long. I don't think it has vassals and heirs getting Syphilis and dying, so maybe that is why this game sounds like so much fun. Picking this up from Steam when I get home.

I click around on their lands and try to get an idea of their levy strength. When you factor in mercenaries (which, yes, they will hire), allies (on both sides), and the possibility of an opportunistic war or revolt against you happening while you're waging the current war, though, there's a lot to think about. (to say nothing of technology, laws impacting recruitment, and other tertiary factors) I haven't really made much of a science of it.

there's a much easier way to do that - click the dude you want to war on, click the little Realm Tree button on his character sheet (next to family/dynasty trees) and mouseover will show you the combined current/maximum levies of him, his vassals, and his liege.

circuitloss wrote:

3. Start as the Duke of Connacht. Now, open your minister screen and tell your Warden to raise troops in your home county. This will give a large bonus to your levy size, so that when the time comes you'll have a number advantage.

Dublin is also a good start - you're a one-province count, but it's the best province in Ireland, and the one-province count to your south is your elderly father and you'll inherit it when he dies.

there's a much easier way to do that - click the dude you want to war on, click the little Realm Tree button on his character sheet (next to family/dynasty trees) and mouseover will show you the combined current/maximum levies of him, his vassals, and his liege.

This game is so much fun, but i suck so bad at it. I just am having trouble taking anything over and gaining titles and holdings and such. My last game as the count of urgell was going along smoothly, then a chain of events destroyed it.

I had gotten 2 people to my court that had claims on the county next to me. We both are in the same duchy. I decided i wanted to try and take his county, then challenge the duke of our duchy. So i declared war on him, and raised my troops and sent them over. He won the first 2 battles, then i won the next 2. Then...a pop up message showed up saying that the war ended with inconclusive results...so i was like wtf. Then, the duke started taking over some other counties...then i got a message saying he was seeking to revoke my title, so i was like ok fuck you then, and swore fealty to the queen of aragon...ultimately defecting from my asshole duchy. Then shortly after, my game abruptly ended and im not exactly sure what happenned....

FYI, losing horribly is half the fun. You could certainly take over a single duchy and largely behave yourself for five hundred years as a duke, and the game wouldn't be much fun. Much more enjoyable to see if you can go Tywin Lannister style and marry off your oldest daughter to a crown prince, then assassinate all the other possible heirs so that your dynasty takes over. Like the RPS writeup said: "This is the least Truman Show" style of game ever. Everyone else is doing their own thing; you're just another pretender. That means that you're almost never going to take over the world, simply because the world isn't interested in being taken over. The intrigue is still worth it.

It's called The Sword of Islam. The big addition is that it will add the option to play as Muslim nations, which will have their own power structures and event decks. You can probably google a bit to get a full list of features.

Question: I kept getting shit-tons of people arriving in my court in waves....where the fuck do all these people come from? At one point i looked up and I had 21 notifications of people arriving in my court.

I'd like to pick up this game but I'm not willing to pay more than $37.54 CAD. Maybe I'll get lucky and Steam will have it 75% off.

I have a visa gift card with that balance >.<

The irony is, it was on sale for that much last week. I would wait until the mid-summer sale (early July) and it might go back up for a discount -- this is especially likely because they have new DLC coming out with playable Muslim factions and what looks like an expanded map of Africa.

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Question: I kept getting shit-tons of people arriving in my court in waves....where the fuck do all these people come from? At one point i looked up and I had 21 notifications of people arriving in my court.

I think they're refugees displaced from places you have connections (alliances?) with. For example, I married a princess from Portugal and was flooded a few years later with Portuguese courtiers. I think a Civil War went on down there and they were jumping ship. I'm not sure how they choose where to go to though.

Also, speaking of that subject. Be very, very careful who you let educate your kids because they will inherit their guardian's culture. I let a Portuguese nobleman educate my heir and had to deal with several generations of Irish kings with thick accents (and a -20 "you ain't from around here is ya?" hit to vassal relations). This can be difficult to undo sometimes because it seems like if there's any interruption in the guardianship (the guardian dies, or rebels and lands in prison, etc.) the ward will default back to his or her father's culture.

Blacken00100 wrote:

Started my first game. Took over Ireland in 25 years, then my ruler died and his son was a moron and the subjects rebelled. (those two may or may not have something to do with one another.)

One of the interesting things that this game models is how unstable changes in power are within a feudal system. A new king (or duke, or whatever) will get a "short reign" relations hit to all of his vassals and there will immediately be a lot of jockeying for power in the ministry. The transition from Duke to King of Ireland, and then trying to secure my realm by raising Crown Authority (it keeps the lordlings from fighting each other instead of fighting for ME!) has been kind of fascinating.

I'm still not sure how to best hand out titles to my vassals, especially the Dukes. The game more or less suggests that you make your sons landed titleholders, but I'm not sure that's really the best idea. I've done OK so far by giving them ministry positions (assuming they have decent skills) and then letting the titles fall to the eldest with primogeniture. I did have an ambitious brother who tried to get uppity with me once but I locked him up and revoked his Dukedom and gave it to a loyal non-family member.

I've noticed that for some reason they're sill able to usurp titles from prison...

It's called The Sword of Islam. The big addition is that it will add the option to play as Muslim nations, which will have their own power structures and event decks. You can probably google a bit to get a full list of features.

Muslim rulers now playableUpdated interface to reflect the all new Muslim dynastyChurch window graphics (alerts and main screens) replaced with Muslim religious themes20 Muslim specific event picturesMap extension into Mali – new counties and titlesA Muslim dynasty decadence system Polygamy – Muslim rulers can take up to 4 wives. **AWESOME!!**100+ new Muslim specific in-game events such as problems in the Harem, Shia vs Sunni tensions and making the HadjNew and diverse combat tactics and commander traits

I wish I had any idea what that last bit means. Oh yeah, and it's only $10.

Made the game run. If anyone else has the same problem, delete the contents of the My Documents/Paradox Interactive/Crusader Kings II directory. There's some log files in there as well that might help debug the problem.

BTW, I just learned this from the official forums, "de jure" setups for kingdoms and the like actually firm up after 100 years. For example, if you're king of Scotland and conquer some counties in Ireland, after 100 years as part of Scotland those counties will be part of your de jure claim.

That's kind of awesome. So the whole de jure system isn't arbitrary within the game, it changes based on historical boundaries.

This game really reveals the asshole in me. I'm playing as the count of Leon (the one in Brittany) and have been busily murdering my way through upper society; while I don't benefit directly from it, I like having my family tree cover the world like a fungus. The daughter to my fourth wife[1] inherited Zeeland after her mother's untimely death[2] and my dude's bastard son was her regent. I wandered over there to check up on things, and I saw her heir.

Me, for reason I haven't yet figured out.

That gave me a choice to make.

I made it.

Turns out two-year-olds have really bad assassination defense.

I felt a little bad about that one, and compensated by murdering most of the Scottish royal line to get the eighth guy in line for succession, who was matrilineally married to one of my dude's wives, on the throne.

I'm some shithead count in Brittany. I killed off a two-year-old to get another county. My kids are gonna be kings of Ireland and Scotland.