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Copyright © 1989, 1998 by Creation Research Society. All rights reserved.

... continued from Part Ia ...

More Creationist Research

Creation Research Society Quarterly 25(4):161 March, 1989

Formation of Dripstone Deposits Stalagmites and Stalactites

Uniformitarian geologists assume that dripstone deposits, such as stalagmites and stalactites, form very slowly, and therefore, the existence of large stalagmites and stalactites in natural limestone caves would have required tens of thousands of years or more to form. Creationists challenge this assumption and have therefore exhibited considerable interest in present-day examples of rapid natural dripstone formation and have conducted laboratory experiments designed to measure rates of dripstone formation under various conditions. As a result, many articles and research reports on the subject have been published in the Quarterly (Anon., 1971; Keithley, 1971; Harris, 1971;

Armstrong, 1972; Brady 1973; Williams, 1975; Williams, et al., 1976; Williams and Herdklotz, 1977; Helmick, Rohde and Ross, 1977; Amer, 1978; Cannell, 1978; Williams and Herdklotz, 1978; Williams, House and Herdklotz, 1981; Williams, 1987).

Most recently, a spirited exchange on the subject has been published (Wise, 1988; Williams, 1988). Helmick, Rohde and Ross, in April 1976, discovered numerous stalactites which had formed under a concrete bridge near Cedarville, Ohio (1977, pp. 13-7). The bridge had been built in 1941, and thus the stalactites had formed in no more than 35 years. From the size of the stalactites, they calculated that the minimum rate of growth was 0.53 cm3 per year, considerably in excess of 0.164 cm3 per year sometimes mentioned in the geological literature. They actually observed growth rates several times the minimum rate during some of the year. They refer to reports of growth rates of stalactites on the concrete roof of the Experimental Mine of the United States Bureau of Mines near Bruceton, Pennsylvania, up to 40 times the minimum average rate observed under the concrete bridge. They also relate the fact that the large stalagmite known as Crystal Spring Dome, in Carlsbad Cavern, has been reported to be growing at the rate of 2.5 in3 (41.0 cm3) per year, in spite of the present, dry New Mexico desert above. They calculate that at this rate, a 10,000 in3 stalagmite, which would require 1,000,000 years to form at an average deposition rate of one in3 per hundred years, could actually be formed in only 4000 years. Taking into account the possibility of even higher growth rates, they declare it is apparent that even the largest known dripstone could have formed in only a few thousand years. The observation of the relatively rapid rate of growth of the stalagmite in Carlsbad Cavern is especially important, since this involves growth rates under a natural cave environment from calcium carbonate, rather than from concrete, which contains a considerable amount of calcium hydroxide in addition to calcium carbonate. Calcium hydroxide is about 100 times more soluble in water than is calcium carbonate (but see below the discussion of this factor in the exchange between Wise and Williams).

E. B. Cannell (1978, pp. 9-11) reported rapid stalactite growth in two cement tunnels in a water treatment plant located on the Ottawa River in Quebec. The minimum growth rate, calculated on the basis of the date of construction of the tunnels and the date of discovery of the stalactites, and the volume of the largest stalactite, was 4.61 cm3 per year, 28 times greater than the average of 0.164 cm3 per year cited in geological literature. Although temperature ranges in the tunnels were approximately those in natural caves, Cannell did cite a number of conditions that are unlike those that are encountered under natural conditions that might affect rates of formations.

Amer (1978, pp. 9-11) reports on the discovery of stalactites in an abandoned tunnel that was formerly part of the London subway system. Some of the stalactites were two feet in length. London's underground railway system was completed in 1890. This would yield a growth rate of about 70 mm per year, which is considerably greater than that reported by Cannell for his stalactites.

Williams, Herdklotz, Mulfinger, Jonsonbaugh, and Pierce (1976, pp. 211-2) published the first in a series of four papers placed in the Quarterly concerning laboratory experiments on the rate of deposition of calcium carbonate from an aqueous solution. Their experimental apparatus was designed to simulate the solution of calcium carbonate as ground water seeps through limestone formations and then redeposits the calcium carbonate as stalactites, as the mineralized water drips from the roof of limestone caves.

In their experiments, they employed tap water plus carbon dioxide; tap water plus carbon dioxide plus 5% sodium chloride; and tap water plus carbon dioxide plus 1% acetic acid. Normal surface water percolating through soil picks up carbon dioxide present in soil. The solution containing added sodium chloride is postulated to be similar to waters of the Flood that would have receded from the earth through recently consolidated limestone. The solution containing added acetic acid simulates a type of Flood water containing humic acid from the decay of organisms. The solutions containing sodium chloride and acetic acid dissolved four to five times as much calcium carbonate as did the water containing only carbon dioxide. The solution containing carbon dioxide and sodium chloride deposited almost twice as much dissolved calcium carbonate as did the solution containing only carbon dioxide. These investigators claimed their experimental results indicated that massive precipitation of calcium carbonate is possible under laboratory conditions. If their laboratory conditions approximate natural conditions that may have existed after the Flood, their results would also indicate, of course, that the formation of stalactites and stalagmites would have occurred much more rapidly than under present conditions.

    E. L. Williams and R. L. Herdklotz (1977, pp. 192-9) published the second paper in the series. They cite reports by several investigators that establish the fact that water percolating through soil picks up relatively large quantities of carbon dioxide. They used apparatus similar to that described in the first paper and also a simpler apparatus. Their test solutions were similar to those in earlier experiments, and they also tested for the effect of temperature. For the experiment testing the effect of temperature, they employed water containing only carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide-enriched water, warmed to about 45C, dissolved the limestone, and redeposited the limestone as it dripped from the apparatus. The deposition is not due to evaporation, but is due to the loss from solution of carbon dioxide. The solubility of calcium carbonate is regulated by the relationship

    CaCO3 + H20 + C02 <==> Ca++ + 2HCO3-

Addition of carbon dioxide shifts the reaction to the right, dissolving calcium carbonate and forming the much more soluble calcium bicarbonate, while decomposition of calcium bicarbonate with the loss of carbon dioxide from solution shifts the reaction to the left, with formation of the much less soluble calcium carbonate, resulting in its deposition. The higher temperature drives off carbon dioxide from solution, and shifts the reaction to the left, with deposition of calcium carbonate. The experiment was very successful, with large amounts of calcium carbonate being deposited on the strings employed in their apparatus, similar to what is found in natural stalactites.

Based on the rates of deposition of calcium carbonate they obtained under various conditions -- 5% sodium chloride solution, plus carbon dioxide at 25C; water, plus carbon dioxide at 45C; water, plus carbon dioxide, with the temperature raising from 8C to 25C; a very rapid rate of calcium carbonate deposition was indicated.

Williams and Herdklotz, postulating conditions that could reasonably be assumed to have existed at the time the Flood waters would have been receding, made an attempt to calculate the rate at which caves could form in limestone deposits. Under ordinary conditions, if 15% of 40 inches of rain per year were available for limestone solution, their calculations indicated that in one year, a cave of 3 ft. x 6 ft. cross section x 120 ft. long would be formed per square mile of surface. Of course, during the waning stages of the Flood, quantities of water vastly in excess of that would have been available for dissolution of calcium carbonate and consequent cave formation.

The third paper in the series was also published by Williams and Herdklotz (1978, pp. 88-91) who attempted to produce calcium carbonate dripstone under laboratory conditions which included water charged with carbon dioxide dripping in an atmosphere of 100% humidity. No dripstone formed. It has been suggested that decomposition of proteins and other nitrogen-containing substances would produce ammonia and other amines. To test this effect, an experiment was conducted with carbon dioxide-charged water in which ammonia was admitted into the apparatus. Even under excessively humid conditions, some calcium carbonate did precipitate. Thus it appears that even under very humid conditions, with ammonia present in the atmosphere the precipitation and subsequent slow growth of dripstone is possible.

In order to determine whether some of the dripstone which was produced from dolomite (which contains both calcium and magnesium) was formed by evaporation as well as by precipitation due to loss of carbon dioxide (as happens when true dripstone forms), a sample of the dripstone produced in the laboratory at 45C was titrated in solution with EDTA (ethylene diamine tetraacetate). This revealed that all of the deposit was calcium carbonate, indicating that none had formed by evaporation. If some of the dripstone had formed by evaporation, the deposit would contain both calcium and magnesium carbonates.

Williams and Herdklotz, in this report, cited statements by uniformitarian geologists, cautioning against claims that the time span required to form stalactites and stalagmites can be estimated using rates of formation under present conditions.

They quoted James H. Gardner (1935, p. 1270):

    "The rate at which dripstone forms is a variable factor, due to changing circumstances; it depends on the amount of seepage water, the quantity of carbonate in solution, and the rate of precipitation. It is a common practice to attempt to fix the age of dripstone by the rate at which it forms, but this is plainly a valueless calculation. It invariably results in the fixing of the age of a stalactite or stalagmite in proportion to its size; the largest will be the oldest and the smallest the youngest. For example, in Carlsbad Cavern at the present time, the management maintains a large sign on an immense stalagmite, stating that it is estimated to have an age of 60 million years. Guides give the information that the calculation is based on the rate of so many cubic inches per year at which such dripstone formed. The writer believes that such signs should be removed by the National Park Service as being misleading to the public."

In quoting Gardner and others, creationists do not imply that they necessarily agree with creationists that these stalactites and stalagmites did form in just a few thousand years, and, of course, creationists acknowledge that neither laboratory nor field work should be used to make claims concerning the age of these dripstones. Laboratory experiments and investigations in the field by creationists may be used, however, to indicate that it is possible that these dripstones could have formed much more rapidly than is usually acknowledged.

The fourth paper in this series was published by Williams, House, and Herdklotz (1981, pp. 205-8,226). In these experiments, they found that there was a lag time of about 400 hours before dripstone began to form. They suggested that this lag may be due to the time necessary to allow the removal of carbon dioxide from solution, or it may be due to the time necessary to supersaturate the solution with calcium carbonate before solid nuclei of the precipitating compound will become stable. They also tested for the effect of drip time. They found that a time between drops (in seconds) of 43 and 90 yielded a bit over 0.05 grams per string, a time of 125 gave 0.132 grams, and a time of 215 gave 0.108 grams per string. They postulate that fast drop formation is a deterrant to precipitation, because the "dwell time" of the drop on the string is not sufficient to allow the release of carbon dioxide so that calcium carbonate can precipitate, while excessive "dwell time" may cause slow monocrystalline growth rather than rapid polycrystalline growth that occurs with somewhat faster moving drops.

They concluded that their results indicate that pressure loss in dripping water, in which calcium carbonate and carbon dioxide are dissolved, can produce rapid precipitation of calcium carbonate under laboratory conditions. The rate of precipitation is dependent on a number of factors, including pressure drop, chemical composition differences in solution and atmosphere, drip rate, and temperature differences. These experiments lead to the conclusion that large masses of calcium carbonate can be deposited rapidly, under proper conditions.

In an appendix Williams and his co-workers quote a report from a newsletter of a caving club (Trout, 1975).

    "The trip really became interesting when we came to the area just above the rubble slope which leads to the 'Rattlesnake Room'. The new growth was simply unbelievable. All who were familiar with the cave were engaged in a 'come over here and see what is new' contest.

    "The real shock came when someone pointed out the new growth behind the 'Bat Burial' formation. Three new stalactites had grown and the longest was some longer than 12". The time since the last photo was taken of this wall was just over 3 months ago so the growth rate of the largest stalactite would be approximately 4" per month or 1 inch every 7.5 days. Unbelievable? Yes! In fact, if any caver believes this without seeing for himself it would surprise me. Luckily though we have been photographing the same spot for 15 years and have all the photos with dates."

Depositional Interbedding and Time Frames in the Grand Canyon

The Grand Canyon and theories concerning its formation have long inspired interest by geologists, evolutionists and creationists alike. Evolutionary geologists have expressed increasing frustration at attempts to explain its formation. Evolutionary geologists believe that the area encompassing much of the Canyon was uplifted 65 million years ago, but that the Colorado River which flows through it did not originate until about four million years ago. It is obvious that if these assumptions are correct, the Colorado River could not have cut the Grand Canyon. If a newly flowing river encountered an uplifted area, it would never climb up over it and subsequently cut a canyon - it would simply flow around it. In the museum on the south rim of the Canyon is a description of several geological theories on the formation of the Canyon, followed by an admission that all of these theories have serious faults. The Havasupai Indian account of the formation of the Grand Canyon is then given. According to these Indians who live in one of the offshoots of the Canyon, the Grand Canyon formed during a great world-wide flood. Much physical evidence supports this belief.

William Waisgerber, a consulting geologist and President of William Waisgerber and Associates, Consulting Geologists; George Howe, Director of the CRS Grand Canyon Experiment Station and Chairman and Professor, Division of Natural Science and Mathematics, The Master's College; and Dr. Emmett Williams (1987, pp.160-7) reported on two field trips to the Grand Canyon to study the alleged unconformity between the Mississippian Redwall Limestone and the Cambrian Muav Limestone along the North Kaibab Trail. Evolutionary and other uniformitarian geologists believe that there exists a 200 million-year time gap between the top of the Cambrian Muav Limestone and the base of the Mississippian Redwall Limestone, since intervening Ordovician, Silurian, and Devonian rocks are absent. Clifford Burdick, a consulting geologist who had made an earlier study of the contact between the Cambrian Muav and the Mississippian Redwall, reported that he had found evidence of intertonguing between these two formations, contradicting the notion that 200 million years had intervened between the deposition of the Cambrian Muav and the Mississippian Redwall. Waisgerber and his colleagues, with support from the CRS Research Committee, formed a field team to reinvestigate the area studied by Burdick.

Waisgerber and his colleagues confirmed Burdick's observations concerning interbedding of the Cambrian Muav and the Mississippian Redwall. Along the North Kaibab Trail is a sign erected by the National Park Service identifying the contact between the Redwall Limestone and the Muav Limestone. The CRS team reports that commencing from an area about 100 yards north of the sign to about 100 yards south of the sign, all beds apparently interfinger with one another. They determined that yellowish appearing micaceous shales were the uppermost Cambrian Muav Limestone. Immediately above these shales were typically reddishcolored Mississippian Redwall Limestone beds. Any attempt to trace individual beds laterally, southerly or northerly along the North Kaibab Trail, however, resulted in a reverse stratigraphic relationship. Supposedly, older Muav Formation yellowish beds rested on allegedly younger reddish-stained Redwall limestone beds. Lateral and vertical facies changes within both formations indicate the absence of unconformable relationships between the Redwall Limestone and the Muav Limestone. In other words, where allegedly older Cambrian Muav Limestone rests on allegedly younger Mississippian Redwall Limestone, the contact is a true sedimentary contact and thus the Muav Limestone was deposited on top of the Redwall Limestone. The evidence contradicts the notion that here, where "older" strata (older by 200 million years!) rests on "younger" strata, the inversion was caused by overthrusting or other geologic events.

Waisgerber and colleagues searched an area 50 feet above and below the contact line between the Muav Limestone and Redwall Limestone for physical evidences of the supposed 200 million-year hiatus between these two formations. They point out that such evidences would include: 1) obvious, pronounced erosional features incised into the highest of Muav Limestone beds; 2) basal Redwall Limestone beds exhibiting boulders and cobbles of eroded Muav Limestone beds; 3) Muav Limestone beds dipping somewhat more steeply than overlying Redwall Limestone beds; 4) Muav Limestone beds being somewhat more folded than Redwall Limestone beds; 5) more complex joint systems in the Muav than in the Redwall; 6) more faulting in the Muav than in the Redwall, and particularly; 7) a decidedly different lithology within each of the formations, due to supposed changing regional environments. None of these features was seen. All of the beds were seen to be homoclinal, each bed resting directly on another bed with no known structural deviation. joint planes commencing in alleged Muav Limestone beds seemingly intersected Redwall Limestone similarly. There were no notches and grooves (which would be evidence of a time gap, the time required for the underlying strata to be incised by erosion) in the underlying Cambrian Muav Limestone filled in by material from the Mississippian Redwall Formation, as should be the case if there were a huge time gap between the laying down of these two formations. The evidence clearly indicates that the Mississippian Redwall Limestone was laid down conformably on the Cambrian Muav Limestone with no time gap in between.

The authors of the paper cite the publications of several uniformitarian geologists which also indicate the difficulty in identifying evidences for an unconformity between the Muav and Redwall Limestones. Their paper also contains citations from the geological literature in which the authors admit the difficulty in documenting other alleged unconformities in the Grand Canyon. Waisgerber, Howe and Williams close their paper with the following conclusions:

    "1. The unconformity supposedly separating the Redwall Limestone from the underlying Muav Limestone does not exist. Consequently there cannot be any 200 million-year hiatus.

    "2. Since the 200 million-year hiatus cannot exist, the dating of Redwall Limestone and Muav Limestone as Mississippian and Cambrian with their supposed ages, respectively, cannot be valid.

    "3. Because the Paleozoic time periods cannot be valid, then the longer time unit known as the Paleozoic Era cannot be real.

    "4. Since the Paleozoic Era cannot be a real geologic time unit, historical geologic time must be suspect.

    "5. Because historical geology is suspect, the megaevolutionary model cannot be confirmed by historical geology because there is no true definition of geologic time.

    "6. Since the evolution model cannot be sustained historically, it behooves all scientists to search for alternative models as regards the origin of the earth, the origin of life on earth, and the time necessary to effect such origins.

    "7. The various formations within the Grand Canyon area could have been deposited one formation on another, without the need for millions of years of depositional time and millions of years of unaccountable time (hiatuses)."

Precipitation Brought About by Mixing Brines

The existence of extensive beds of rock salt (sodium chloride), gypsum (CaSO4.2H20) and anhydrite (CaSO4) has long been considered by uniformitarian geologists to be evidence for evaporation, over tens of thousands or millions of years, of shallow seas on inland lakes. Thus, these beds are commonly referred to as evaporites. Many of these deposits are massive. Some salt domes are described as having salt cores that have a roughly circular or oval horizontal section 1,000 feet to two miles or so in diameter. The core may extend downward for several thousand feet. It is believed that there are plugs in Europe extending downward 15,000-20,000 feet. Since it requires evaporation of 8,000 feet of sea water to produce 100 feet of salt, it would require an unbelievable amount of evaporation to produce several thousand feet of salt and of course the sea floor would have to continually subside at just the right rate to maintain the existence of the sea.

In recent times, geologists have recognized the many difficulties in the evaporate scenario and have sought other explanations for the formation of these extensive salt beds. One of the more recent suggestions has been that these salt beds formed when brines were intruded into the ocean from openings in the sea floor (Nutting, 1984). Thus, vast time spans would not be required for the formation for these so-called evaporites, or salt formations. It has been suggested that the mixing of different kinds of brines, say of sodium chloride and magnesium chloride, each originally saturated, might cause precipitation of one or both of the salts. Omer B. Raup has conducted some experiments that have shown that much salt is precipitated when brines are mixed. The precipitation took place without any evaporation of water or change of temperature.

    F. L. Wilcox and S. T. Davidson (1976, pp. 87-9) thought it worthwhile to repeat some of Raup's work and to carry the work further and they have reported the results of their experiments sponsored by the CRS Research Committee. They used saturated solutions of sodium chloride (NaCl) and of magnesium chloride (MgCl2). Mixing of the brines caused precipitation of NaCl. They found that the greatest amount of NaCl precipitated, expressed as percent of the total NaCl initially present in the mixed brines, was obtained when the volume percent of the NaCl brine was about 20% (that is, when the brines mixed consisted of 20 ml of the saturated NaCl solution and 80 ml of the saturated MgCl2 solution, or comparable amounts). They postulate that when the two solutions are mixed, the MgCl2 tends to attract water molecules from NaCl. As the number of water molecules available to NaCl decreases, the NaCl begins to precipitate from solution. They suggested future experiments employing subsaturated solutions and about 25 volume percentage NaCl solution and testing the effect of temperature.

*Investigation of an Elliptical Formation in the Tendurek

Mountains of Turkey*

William H. Shea (1976, pp. 91-5) described an elliptical, boat-shaped object in the Tendurek Mountains about 30 miles southwest of Mount Ararat in Turkey. This object was brought to public attention in 1959. Ca oftain Sevket Kurtis had taken photos in the vicinity the Tendurek mountains and he brought the photos with him when he came to Ohio State University to do advanced work in connection with aerial surveying. It was reported that Captain Ilhan Duripinar had discovered the object on one of the photos while using a stereoplanograph in preparing maps. The picture was published in several newspapers and magazines, along with speculations about the Ark. Shea did not visit the site but his discussion was based on an examination of the photo and a report by p that visited the site in 1960. They found no arheological evidence of the Ark and no human artifacts. Shea speculates that possibly this is the site where the Ark landed (the site is at an elevation of 6,000 feet) but that the Ark itself was destroyed by fire due to hot lava which contacted the boat.

Clifford L. Burdick, (1976, pp. 96-8) visited the site of this object in 1973. He reports that the object is only a geological and tectonic phenomenon. That year Burdick was a member of a team that was on Mount Ararat searching for the Ark. In the course of events, he met the commanding general at Dogubayaset, a city near Mount Ararat. The general claimed he could take Burdick to the site of the object for which they were searching, the Ark of Noah. Burdick was escorted to the Tendurek Mountains and to the site of the boatshaped object reported in 1959.

According to Burdick's observation, a small fault or fracture of about 500 feet occurred along a stream bed. Apparently a granitic or rhyolitic type of intrusive lava had pushed up through clay along the center of the formation, making an elevated ridge along the center. Possibly as the molten or plastic rock rose through the clay bed of the wash, it raised the hardened clay with it. Burdick reports that the hardened clay did resemble the sides of a ship, and from a distance might be interpreted as such. Burdick's observations convinced him that this object could not possibly have any relevance to the Ark.

CRSQ = Creation Research Society Quarterly

Amer, J. 1978. More recent stalactites. CRSQ 15:8-9.

Anon. 1971. Cover illustration. CRSQ 8:93-4.

Armstrong, H. L. 1972. Catastrophic storms and cave formation. CRSQ 9:135.

Barnes, Thomas G. 1975. The earth's magnetic energy provides confirmation of its young age. CRSQ 12:11-3.

___ and R. J. Upham, Jr. 1976. Another theory of gravitation: an alternate to Einstein's general theory of relativity. CRSQ 12:194-7.

___ R. R. Pemper and H. L. Armstrong. 1977. A classical foundation for electrodynamics. CRSQ 14:210-20.

___. 1980. New proton and neutron models. CRSQ 17:42-7.

___. 1981. Satellite observations confirm the decline of the

earth's ma agnetic field. CRSQ 18:39-41

___ and F. S. Ramirez, IV. 1982a. Velocity effects on atomic clocks and the time question. CRSQ 18:198-200.

___, et al. 1982b. Electric theory of gravitation. CRSQ 19:113-6.

___. 1983. Electric explanation of inertial mass. CRSQ 19:208-12.

Beierle, F. P. 1979. A new kind of evidence from the Paluxy. CRSQ 16:87.

Billings, M. P. 1955. Structural geology. Prentice-Hall. New York. p. 131.

Brady, J. C. 1973. More on stalactites. CRSQ 10:130-1.

Burdick, C. L. 1966. Microflora of the Grand Canyon. CRSQ 3(l):38-50.

___. 1974. Additional notes concerning the Lewis thrust-fault CRSQ 11:56-60.

___. 1975. Geological formation near Loch Assynt compared with the Glarus formation. CRSQ 12:155-6.

___. 1976. The elliptical formation in the Tendurek Mountains CRSQ 13:96-8.

___. 1977. Heart Mountain revisited. CRSQ 13:207-10. Cannell, E.

1978. Rapid stalactite formation observed. CRSQ 15:9-11.

D'Armond, D. B. 1980. Thornton Quarry deposits: a fossil coral reef or a catastrophic Flood deposit? A preliminary study. CRSQ 17:88-105.

Gardner, J. H. 1935. Origin and development of limestone caverns. Bulletin of the Geological Society of America 46:1270.

Gish, Duane T. 1975. A decade of creationist research CRSQ 12:34-46.

Harris, R. 1971. Article review. CRSQ 8:144.

Helmick, L. S., J. Rohde and A. Ross. 1977. Rapid growth of dripstone observed. CRSQ 14:13-7.

Howe, G. F. 1986. Creation Research Society studies on Precambrian pollen:part I - a review. CRSQ 23:99-104.

___, et al. 1988. Creation Research Society studies on Precambrian pollen - part III: a pollen analysis of Hakatai shale and other Grand Canyon rocks. CRSQ 24:173-82.

Ingles, J. J. C. 1963. Geometry, paleontology and petrology of Thornton Reef complex, Silurian of northeastern Illinois. Bulletin of the American Association of Petroleum Geologists 47:405.

Keithley, W. E. 1971. Notes on stalactite formation. CRSQ 8:188.

Lammerts, W. E. 1972. The Glarus overthrust. CRSQ 8:251-5.

___ and C. F. Howe. 1987. Creation Research Society studies on Precambrian pollen part 11: experiments on atmospheric pollen contamination of microscope slides. CRSQ 23:151-3.

Nicholson, H. A. 1897. Ancient life history of the earth. D.

Appleton. New York. p. 40.

Nutting, D. 1. 1984. Origin of bedded salt deposits: a critique of evaporative models and defense of a by hypothermal model. Masters Thesis. Institute for Creation Research.

Patterson, J. W. 1982. An engineer looks at the creationist movement. Proceedings, Iowa Academy of Science 89(2)55-8.

Rodabaugh, D. J. 1975a. The queen of sciences examines the king of fools. CRSQ 12:14-8.

___. 1975b. Human evolution is still nonsense (no matter which equilibrium population is assumed), CRSQ 12:107.

___. 1975c. Mathematicians do it again. CRSQ 12:173-5.

___. 1976. Probability and the missing transitional forms CRSQ 13:116-9.

Shea, W. H. 1976. The Ark-shaped formation in the Tendurek Mountains of Eastern Turkey. CRSQ 13:91-5.

Trout, J. 1975. Cottonwood Cave. Trip reports of Guadalupe Grotto. November 24.

Waisgerber, W. G., G. F. Howe and E. L. Williams. 1987. Mississippian and Cambrian strata interbedding: 200 million year hiatus in question. CRSQ 23:160-7.

Wilcox, F. T. and S. T. Davidson. 1976. Experiments on precipitation brought about by mixing brines CRSQ 13:87-9.

Williams, E. L. 1975. Laboratory production of limestone formations. CRSQ 12:120.

___. 1987. Rapid development of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) formations. CRSQ 24:18-9.

___. 1988. Reply to Wise. CRSQ 24:213-5.

___, et al. 1976. Deposition of calcium carbonate in a laboratory situation CRSQ 12:211-2.

___ and R. J. Herdklotz. 1977. Solution and deposition of calcium carbonate in a laboratory situation. II. CRSQ 13:192-9.

___. 1978. Solution and deposition of calcium carbonate in a laboratory situation. III. CRSQ 15:88-91.

___. K. W. House and R. J. Herdklotz. 1981. Solution and deposition of calcium carbonate in a laboratory situation. IV.=CRSQ 17:205-8, 226.

Wise, K. P. 1988. Portland cement dripstone. CRSQ 24:212-3.


Total Time
7hrs 30mins
Prep 30 mins
Cook 7 hrs

This is an amazing chili recipe that I found in the Foodnetwork Magazine. It's a true Texas chili and has no beans. It was so good and my husband just loved it!

Ingredients Nutrition

  1. Toss the beef with 1 tablespoon each of brown sugar and salt in a large bowl. Heat the vegetable oil in a large skillet over medium-high heat. Cook the beef in batches until browned on all sides, 4 to 5 minutes. Transfer to a 5 to 6 quart slow cooker.
  2. Reduce heat to medium, add the onions to the skillet and cook until soft, about 5 minutes. Stir in the garlic, chilies, cumin, and chili powder and cook 3 minutes. Add 1 1/2 cups water and the tomatoes and simmer, scraping up the browned bits from the bottom, about 3 minutes. Transfer to the slow cooker, cover and cook on low for 7 hours.
  3. Add the remaining 1 tablespoon of brown sugar and the hot sauce (optional) to the chili. Serve with green onions, cilantro, and sour cream for topping.


The Conspiracy to Kill Martin Luther King: Not a Theory But a Fact

National Outrage over  Killing of Trayvon Martin

In this case, we have two basic myths in conflict.

(By odd coincidence, as I was writing this the mail arrived with my summons to serve on a local jury. The website it directed me to urged me to feel “a sense of pride and respect for our system of justice,” because “about 95 percent of all jury trials in the world take place in the United States.”)

Then there’s another myth, a story that says the federal government has only assassinated American citizens who were truly bad people and aimed to do the rest of us harm; the government would never assassinate an innocent citizen. Most Americans devoutly hope this story is true. And most Americans don’t put MLK in the “bad guy” category. So they resist believing what the legal system tells us is true about his death.

Perhaps a lot of Americans would not be too disturbed to learn that the local government in Memphis or even the Tennessee state government were involved. There’s still plenty of prejudice against white Southerners. But the federal government? It’s a thought too shocking for most Americans even to consider. So they fill in the facts with what they want to believe — and the myth of James Earl Ray, “the lone assassin,” lives on, hale and hearty.

Since that’s the popular myth, it’s the one the corporate mass media have always purveyed. After all, their job is to sell newspapers and boost ratings in order to boost profits. Just a few days after the trial ended the New York Times, our “newspaper of record,” went to great lengths to cast doubt on the verdict and assure readers, in its headline, that the trial would have “little effect” — an accurate, though self-fufilling, prophecy.

Imagine if the accused had been not a white southerner but a black man, with known ties not to the government but to the Black Panther Party. You can bet that the trial verdict would have been bannered on every front page; the conspiracy would be known to every American and enshrined in every history book as the true version of events.

None of this necessarily means that the federal government and the mass media are covering up actual facts. Maybe they are, maybe they aren’t. Again, I don’t claim to know what really happened on April 4, 1968.

So let’s assume for a moment, just for the sake of argument, that the jury was wrong, that James Earl Ray did the shooting and acted alone. The federal government would still have good reasons to suppress the conspiracy story. Essentially, all those reasons boil down to a matter of trust. There is already immense mistrust of the federal government. Imagine if everyone knew, and every history book said, that our legal system has established as fact the government’s complicity in the assassination.

If the federal government has a convincing argument that the jury was wrong, we all deserve to hear it. There’s little advantage to having such uncertainty hanging in the air after 45 years. But the government should make its argument in open court, in front of a jury of our peers.

In America, we have only one way to decide the facts of guilt or innocence: not through the media or gossip or imagination, but through the slowly grinding machinery of the judicial system. At least that’s the story I want to believe.

Ira Chernus is Professor of Religious Studies at the University of Colorado at Boulder –

Articles by: Prof. Ira Chernus

For media inquiries: [email protected]


WRT 150 Portfolio Grading FAQ

Questions you might have:

1. Why is a group of Writing 150 teachers reading my papers and determining my final grade rather than just my own teacher?

A group of four or five teachers (including your teacher) has been reading samples of your class's writing throughout the semester to discuss and agree about what is an A, B, C, D, and F paper. The goal of the instructors in the group is to set fair and accurate grading standards. The standards will develop after discussing samples from your class and other classes throughout the semester. This agreement between two Writing professors will constitute the bulk of your grade.

2. Does my teacher have any say as to what grade I get on my portfolio and what grade I receive in this class?

Yes. Your teacher will always be one of at least two portfolio readers of your work at the end of the term. If the second reader in the group agrees with the first reader about the grade for your portfolio, then that agreement will determine the grade you receive on the portfolio. If the second reader does not agree with your teacher, then a third reader will be asked to read your portfolio. If the third reader agrees with your teacher, then the grade stands. If the third reader agrees with the second reader, then your grade is based on the agreement of readers two and three. The goal is to arrive at a "community" grade rather than a grade based solely on one teacher's preferences.

3. What happens if one person in the portfolio group grades much harder than the others?

Doesn't this mean I'll probably get a low grade if that person reads my portfolio? No, not necessarily. If the second reader does not agree with your teacher, a third reader is asked to read your portfolio and decide which of the first two readers is closest to the standards that the portfolio group has agreed about during the semester. (See question #2)

4. I think each teacher should grade his or her own students' work.

Each teacher does have a hand in grading their students' work, but the portfolio groups assure students that their grades are a reflection of community standards--departmental and university.

5. How can the portfolio group grade my papers if they haven't seen the assignment?

Writing 150 is a course that is designed to give you practice and instruction in the various kinds of writing that you will be asked to do throughout college. The portfolio group therefore wants to be general in their assessment of your writing. They want to look at three samples of your writing and describe the group of three as "excellent," "good," "average," or "below average or failing." The ideal is that this grade reflects what most professors would say if they picked up your portfolio and read it. We want your grade to be based on the general quality of your writing alone, not on how well the writing satisfies teacher-specific instructions.

6. My teacher said that I have to type single space, have fewer than two sentence fragments, and underline the thesis statement in every essay just to get a C. If the portfolio group doesn't know this, then what happens?

Teachers often have "minimum requirements" that they want every paper to meet. For example, some say that a paper can't be handed in more than one day late. When teachers have such requirements that may not be the same as other teachers in the portfolio group, they will enforce those requirements by making sure you meet them before you submit a portfolio to the portfolio group at the end of the term. This way, everyone who reads your portfolio will assume it has met any teacher-specific minimum requirements. If you don't meet minimum requirements that your teacher sets, your teacher won't allow you to submit a portfolio at the end of the term.

7. Could two people in my portfolio group agree that I deserve a B and then my teacher give me a C anyway because of absences or class participation?

The portfolio grade is the "bulk" of your grade for the semester. For teachers who use percentages, this usually means between 70 and 90 percent. Typically you should not expect your grade to be adjusted beyond a plus or a minus for the grade the portfolio group (which includes your teacher as first reader) gives you. If your grade needs adjusting down a whole letter grade, you probably didn't meet the minimum requirements (e.g. too many absences) and you should not have been allowed to submit a portfolio in the first place and been given an F. If a teacher over in Biology looks up your grade in WRT 150, they should be assured that this grade basically reflects how well you write, not your attendance, your improvement, or your good (or bad) attitude.

8. Just looking at my portfolio at the end of the term doesn't show how much I've improved. Shouldn't my grade be based, at least in part, on my improvement?

No. Your grade in WRT 150 should be based on the quality of your writing at the end of the term. This way, what counts as A, B, C, D, or F is, we intend, the same for every student. Teachers can adjust grades (usually with a plus or a minus) based on your participation, improvement, or other factors.

9. I like to have grades during the semester so that I know how well I am doing. I don't want my grade at the end of the term to come as a big surprise.

We agree. Your teacher should be reading your writing throughout the semester and responding to it with comments, personal conferences, endnotes, and suggestions for revision. Most 150 classes have tutors from the Writing Center that work with you and point out strengths and weakness in your writing. And many teachers will have you read and comment on other students' work. For most students, a grade is not necessary for early drafts because the proper focus is on what the paper could be, not on what it is. But if you want a grade on an assignment and your teacher has not given one, just ask. The teacher will be able to tell you where she thinks the paper falls within the range of A to F. The teacher will probably tell you what she and others in the portfolio group have been saying about writing like yours. Don't be surprised if the teacher says, for example, that some in the group might say C and she, or others in the group, might say B. Group members often disagree, especially early in the semester, about what is an A, B, and C. If the teacher says your paper is probably a low B or a C, your next question should be: "what could I work on in this paper that would improve it?" Your teacher should love this question and this should give you the feedback you need to feel encouraged to try an make even a good paper better.

10. It seems to me that the portfolio-grading system is all about judging final products. I thought we were supposed to be interested in the writing process?

At GVSU we use portfolios as "grading groups" to respond to the need to develop community standards and to respond to the University's desire for a "check" on how well students can write before they move on to the upper-level courses. One aim (there are others) of the portfolio system is to protect students from being misled by "easy" graders and being treated unfairly by "hard" graders. Nevertheless, our composition program is very much concerned that you are learning strategies and skills that help you develop your own writing process. In fact, because the portfolio group grading system focuses on what you can do at the end of the semester as represented by your portfolio, it encourages and gives opportunity for every paper (except for the in-class paper) to be revised. Revision is the heart of the writing process.

11. The portfolio group read my paper but didn't give me feedback. Why not?

The portfolio groups are only concerned with grading. Your teacher is part of your portfolio group and his or her feedback on your paper should be counted as feedback from the portfolio group. Your teacher is helping to set standards in your portfolio group, so listen up when she comments on your papers. It is your teacher's job to give feedback and help on your writing. If you aren't getting it, ask again. Also, don't overlook the value of getting help from the writing tutor and the other students in your class.

13. What is supposed to be in my portfolio?

Every student should submit three papers, including one with citations and references. Ask your teacher if you are not sure. Your teacher and the other students should help you make good choices about what goes in the final portfolio.

14. Can I include a paper in my portfolio from another class?

No. All papers in your portfolio must have been assigned and seen by your teacher. Students that submit work from another class or work that is not his or her own will be failed and the dean of students will be notified.


* This is the Consumer Version. *

Autoerythrocyte Sensitization

by David J. Kuter, MD, DPhil

Autoerythrocyte sensitization (Gardner-Diamond syndrome; painful bruising syndrome) causes painful bruises, usually on the arms or legs.

Autoerythrocyte sensitization is rare. It typically occurs in white women who are experiencing emotional stress.

Doctors are not sure of the cause. One theory is that red blood cells escape from the blood vessels and cause an allergic-type reaction that leads to the bruising. However, most affected people also have symptoms of mental disorders.

People develop episodes of painful bruising. Bruises may develop spontaneously or after injury or surgery. Bruising can occur on different sites of the body from where the injury occurs. Bruises then resolve after a few days. Some people also have nausea, vomiting, and headaches.

Doctors first do tests of the blood clotting system. If the results are normal, doctors may then inject a small sample of the person's own red blood cells into the skin. They also inject a control site with a salt solution that will not cause a reaction. After 24 to 48 hours, doctors examine both injection sites to determine whether there has been a reaction to the red blood cells.

Bruises resolve on their own. Some people benefit from treatment to help them deal with emotional stress.


Switzerland Geography

Looking to learn about Switzerland in under 1 minute? Check out our Where is Switzerland? page, or What is the Capital of Switzerland? page.

Mountains cover 60% of Switzerland's land area, with ranges of the Alps in the south and the Jura Mountains to the north.

Switzerland's highest point is Dufourspitze (Monte Rosa), in the Pennine Alps, which rises to 15,206 ft (4,634 m).

Also located within the Pennine Alps is the infamous Matterhorn whose summit is 4,690 ft. (4,478 m) high.

Between the mountains there's a hilly, central plateau that extends on through the east-west axis of the country.

Moving north, the Rhine River makes up much of Switzerland's border with Germany, as well as part of Lake Constance.

Switzerland's two largest lakes are Lake Geneva (shared with France) and Lake Neuchatel - which is the largest lake entirely within the country's borders.


Multiple reasons why sheep are better than a woman. - you can feed a sheep to a crocodile when you're done and you won't get thrown in prison for it. - Warm on both sides. - Sheep make wool. - sheep don't ask"what have you done for me lately". - sheep don't complain when you ask them to shave. - you can be a sheep farmer. Aka Polygamy. - You can sell a sheep when you're tired of it. - With a sheep, you don't have to buy it dinner first. It could be your dinner *after*. - sheep make the same noise all the time. - you don't have to hide your credit cards around sheep. - sheep never make you take them out. - sheep don't complain if you do other sheep. - sheep don't run away. - sheep are always on all flafours. - no one's ever heard a sheep say "Men are scum". - Sheep baaaah on command. - Sheep don't expect orgasm. - a sheep doesn't mind if you're done in two minutes. - nor does a sheep mind if you go to sleep afterward. - Sheep don't have a father with a shotgun. - You can practice unsafe sex with sheep and not worry about pregnancy. - you can kick a sheep in the head and won't mind you still calling it baby.


Man and Woman talkLucid Dream Exchange (LDE):  DREAMSPEAK

Part One, Two and Three”, The Lucid  Dream Exchange, Numbers 29, 30, and 31, 2003 – 2004.

(c) Beverly D’Urso 2003

Questions by Robert Waggoner

Beverly D’Urso (formerly Beverly Kedzierski, and also Bev Heart)
is an incredible lucid dreamer. She served as Stephen LaBerge’s
main lucid dream research subject in the early years of his
research work, and helped provide key insights into lucid
dreaming. Interviewed by magazines, national and local television,
and other media, Beverly has promoted a greater understanding of
lucid dreaming and “lucid living.” The LDE is pleased to provide a
multi-issue interview of this fascinating lucid dreamer.

ROBERT: Beverly, thanks for doing an interview with the LDE. Since
us how your interest in dreaming began.

BEVERLY: I grew up in a small suburb of Chicago, the only child of
It was around this time that I remember having a series of
recurring nightmares.

I imagined gruesome witches living in the back of my dark and
scary closet. In my dreams, I’d be quietly playing or lying in
me. I’d scream and run through the house, making it to the back
I’d fall on the cement at the bottom of the stairs, spread eagle
on my back, and just as they were about to devour me, I’d wake up.
In an icy sweat, breathing fast, I’d be terrified of going to
but, when I least expected it, they’d be back. After years of this
same recurring dream, I’d find myself pleading, as I lie on the
cement with the witches hovering over me, “Please, spare me
tonight. You can have me in tomorrow’s night’s dream!” At that
point, they’d stop their attack and I’d wake up. However, the
I would lie in bed and tell myself that the witches only came in
remember this the next time they appeared.

ROBERT: So, recurring nightmares led you to realize that witches
dream state and become lucid?

BEVERLY: One hot, sticky summer night, when I was seven, I was
mom, and I fell asleep.

stairs, I tripped as usual and immediately those horrifying
with them, the thought flashed through my mind, “If I ask them to
take me in tomorrow night’s dream, then this must be a dream!”
eye and said, “What do you want?” They gave me a disgusting look,
but I knew I was safe in a dream, and I continued, “Take me now.
Let’s get this over with!” I watched with amazement, as they
witch nightmare in this form again! I would later have new
episodes with the witches in my dreams and discover similar witch
scenarios in my waking life.

ROBERT: Did that initial lucid dream realization change your
outlook on dreaming? How so?

BEVERLY: My dreams were really fun after that night. Remembering
was asleep and dreaming. Safe in the dream, I would do things I’d
never do when awake! Being a very obedient student during the
daytime, I would dream of being in class jumping wildly and
carefree all over the tops of the school desks. Whatever I
ecstatic. I could face other fears, heal or nurture myself
emotionally, resolve conflicts or blocks, have adventures, help
time periods, and generally “do the impossible!”

bright streetlights in the dream, whenever I wanted to end a
dream. Oftentimes, I would lay in bed imagining myself doing
backward summersaults and float right into my dream, without ever
scene, and even how to repeat the same dream!

ROBERT: What other things did you learn to do in your early lucid

BEVERLY: I learned to fly in my dreams, as well. Usually, I would
discovered that I could fly like superman, soaring effortlessly
telephone wires or some other barrier because I fell. I soon
skills, I could eliminate flying by merely imagining that where I
lately, I have been doing what I call “surrender flying.’” I lean
wake up.

ROBERT: My earliest lucid awareness came when I was 10 or 11 years
else helped you realize that you were dreaming?

BEVERLY: Often, in dreams, I would often find myself in front of
dream, I’d often get confused and scared. However, the more I
next time I’m in front of my childhood home, I will check for

ROBERT: What I find amazing is that you were so young. Did your

BEVERLY: My lucid dreaming experiences continued throughout my
teenage years. However, I never knew the term “lucid dreaming.” I
thought that everyone dreamed this way every night. I guess I
or when I would find myself on shooting elevators or on bridges
that were too steep to drive on.

She died in a car accident, when I was nineteen. At first, I’d see
with her this way. It helped me
1992. By then, I was an expert!

ROBERT: What other types of lucid dream experiences surprised you
back then?

BEVERLY: I would sometimes end a dream, think I woke up, yet find
myself in another dream. These are called “false awakenings.”
Sometimes, I would ‘wake up’ ten or twenty times in a row, but
shortened exponentially. For example, I would realize I was still
still be in bed, waking up, when I’d realize I was still in a
dream. I have gotten better at recognizing false awakenings
through the years.

ROBERT: So how did it happen that you met Stephen LaBerge?

BEVERLY: In the late 1970s, I moved to California to finish my
graduate work in computer science at Stanford University. Soon
dreams were called “lucid dreams.” She said lucid dreaming was a
valuable skill that people were trying to learn. I was very
least many of them were lucid!

At the time, I was finishing a master’s project with a Stanford
Cognitive Psychology professor. I told one of his other students
Stephen LaBerge, who was doing his dissertation on this exact

After Stephen and I were introduced at an initial meeting, we
already knew the answer. My somersault dreams were like spinning
attributed it to something in the inner ear that affected a
certain part of the brain.

ROBERT: Obviously you both shared similar interests in lucid
awareness. Did that lead to being a research subject?

BEVERLY: Stephen invited me to participate in some experiments at
many experiments for publicity, such as television or magazine
early on when the technical equipment failed.

show that one could be definitely in the sleeping state and signal
the beginning of a predetermined task from a dream. He wondered
dream bodies can be recognized as happening in our physical
bodies, as well.

ROBERT: So how did the research begin with you as the subject?

BEVERLY: In the lab, I would signal from a dream, and my signals
functions, were also being monitored. They showed that I was
unequivocally in the sleep state, particularly REM sleep, while I
was signaling.

movements, because eye movement is not as inhibited as other body

ROBERT: What other lucid dream research did you do in those early

BEVERLY: After I demonstrated that I could have lucid dreams at
experiments that used the signals. After signaling that I knew I
which was also being monitored by electrodes. It did. Another
it would while awake. The experiments showed that the same parts
it while awake.

ROBERT: Did you ever have problems as a lucid dreamer on these
research nights?

BEVERLY: One time, I was in the lab doing an experiment for
*Smithsonian Magazine*. My task was to get lucid, and then clap my
dream hands to determine if an electrode on my physical ear would
couldn’t clap my hands. A buoyancy compensatory had unexpectedly
expanded around me, and I couldn’t get both hands to meet. I had
recently learned to scuba dive. A buoyancy compensatory is a
device used for floating that expands around the center of the
body. The part that the reporters didn’t realize was that just as
could solve the ancient Zen koan of “the sound of one hand
clapping.” I believe that the reason my subconscious couldn’t get
my hands to clap was because then I wouldn’t be making the sound
of “one” hand clapping.

During another lab experiment, my eye movements were being
explained what I was going to do to the dream character that
represented my friend Tim. He said, “Oh, you mean you move your
eyes back and forth like this?” He then moved his eyes in this
two eye signals recorded. Tim’s eyes moving in the dream must have
affected my physical eyes. This made me wonder if all dream
characters are really aspects of the dreamer as well.

ROBERT: It seems that the lucid dream research focused mostly on
physiological correlations between dream experience and waking
experience, rather than, say, the psychological meaning of dream
characters, etc. Is that the case?

BEVERLY: We did many more experiments in the lab through the
estimates turned out to be very similar. We believed that time
sometimes seems different in dreams because dreams often work the
a later period begins immediately. In other experiments, I
front of my face, and we’d compare it to my physical eyes
following this same pattern while awake. Oddly enough, I would
performing all evening with my professional belly dance troupe.
Talk about working 24 hours a day!

flew across Stanford campus and saw a group of tourists walking
experiment in the *Journal of Psychophysiology* as the first
recorded female orgasm in a dream.

ROBERT: Did dream lab work affect your normal lucid dreaming?

BEVERLY: During this time period, while at home in my bedroom, I
dream scientists. I asked them what they observed while they saw
asleep in a dream as a way to wake up.
ROBERT: So what about your lucid dreams in the lab? Were they
affected by the laboratory setting?
BEVERLY: In the laboratory, I learned to wait until early morning
be true for most people. For example, I would say, “I will do the
experiment at 7:30 a.m.” I picked this time because it was before
the office personnel would come in and begin to make noises.

called “MILD,” or Mnemonic induction of lucid dreams.

I would often joke with the dream characters who represented the
lab technicians or the media people. Sometimes, I would fly over
of any of my tasks.

Robert: Was it odd having news media attention about lucid

Beverly: Once, I was asked to do a lucid dreaming experiment at
finding myself in a bed that looked like the one in the lab where
there, when I remembered that I was being filmed for a national
turned around midair and quickly flew back to the Stanford Sleep
Lab. I looked for what I thought would be the wall of Hugh’s room.
I nudged him on the side and said, “Hugh, wake up! I have come to
take you flying.” He seemed very sleepy, so I took his hand, and I
over the lead guitar player, Jerry Garcia’s, head. We had the best
location in the place, and the music sounded especially clear and
dreams. Unfortunately, he didn’t, but he seemed very pleased when
know the segment was never shown.

ROBERT: Sexual desires seem fairly common in my lucid dreams and
in most other lucid dreamers’. What this the case in your
experience as well?

BEVERLY: In my lucid dreams, I have had sex with dream characters
combinations. I can barely think of some sexual situation that I
have not experienced. These dreams are all very enjoyable and
everyone is always totally accepting.

inhibitions. I gave myself a suggestion to remain lucid afterwards
campfire. I took this as another challenge and stepped right into
try eating the flames. Interestingly enough, they tasted salty.
superman, accelerating rapidly until, about half way there, I
extremely lucid for the next several days in both my waking and
sleeping states.

ROBERT: Any final thoughts about experiments or experiences in the
lab with Stephen LaBerge?

BEVERLY: During one lucid dreaming experiment at the lab, Stephen
out. Even I wasn’t always completely lucid!

the song, “Row, row, row your boat…. life is but a dream.” The
and I saw myself saying, “Life is but a dream!” It was a very
strange experience indeed! I decided it must be some kind of
formulating the ideas that would eventually become what I now
call, “lucid living!”

ROBERT: Beverly, because you have so many great lucid dream
one of your favorite lucid dreams from this period?

BEVERLY: This next dream serves as a good description of how our
of seeing my thoughts manifest instantly in front of me. I found
in his pocket. I thought, “What if he pulls a knife on me?” Sure
thoughts, and I wanted this all to stop. Yet, I didn’t know how to
great deal about how our mental states can affect our experiences.

Robert: So Beverly, you have been lucid dreaming regularly since
you were a child, and helped Stephen LaBerge scientifically prove
the existence of lucid dreaming as his main research subject.  But
did your time in lucid dreaming affect your other dreams, or were
they everyday, normal dreams?

Beverly: In 1982, after becoming extremely proficient in lucid
dreaming,I spontaneously began having precognitive dreams. These
are dreams of things that happen later in the waking state. For
me, these dreams usually had great detail, were very emotional,
and the waking scenario would occur within a few days of the
dream. However, my precognitive dreams usually have not been
lucid. I was sure that they were not due merely to coincidence. I
even described the events, in detail, to others, who were later
present during the waking scenario. My previous view of the
physical world as being “solid,” and having precise rules, had
turned upside down!

Robert: How did you respond to having your world view altered by
your lucid and precognitive dreaming?

Beverly: These experiences caused me to explore other psychic
phenomenon. I began reading books, such as Jane Robert’s “Seth”
work. I needed to make sense of what was happening to me. Again, I
thought of life being a dream. It would explain how such things
like precognitive dreams could occur.
Maybe, I needed to become more lucid in life in order to really
see it as a dream. My dreams often seemed as real as physical
reality, sometimes more so.  The more I thought of the
implications of life being a dream, the more it made sense. We
could all be dream characters in a dream we call life. Was there a
Dreamer dreaming us all? However, during this time, I was still a
scientist trying to finish my Ph.D. I did not want to be
distracted by these ideas so much, that I never finished my
degree. I decided to put them off for awhile.

Robert: That’s understandable.  So how did the dissertation go?
Beverly: In my waking state, I was having trouble writing my
doctoral dissertation.  I decided to try writing it in my dreams
first. In one dream, I found myself lying in bed. The desk in the
room was in the wrong place, so I realized that I was dreaming. I
headed for my computer, to start writing.  I found that I could
not move. I was paralyzed. I told myself, “This is my dream, and I
can do what I want!” I slowly made it to the desk. I looked down,
and I saw that the chair seat was an opening for “the pit to
hell.”  Flames swept up, and it sounded and smelled awful!  I was,
however, determined to succeed. Holding my breath, I sat down,
ready to be sucked into the pit.  Instead, I woke up, and within a
very short time, I finished writing my dissertation in the area of
artificial intelligence.

Robert: That’s a great story.  I recall being at an Association
for theStudy of Dreams’ presentation, where one of the speakers
admitted that his realistic dream of fighting the devil occurred
when he was undergoing the oral and written defense of his
doctoral dissertation!  So what happened after you finished your

Beverly: I finished my Ph.D. in 1983 and my career really took
off!  I was very involved in starting up businesses and traveling
around the world.  In 1987, I took a short break from this
computer science work to help Stephen LaBerge form the Lucidity

By this time, we had been experimenting for awhile with lucid
dreaming induction techniques to help others more easily become
lucid in their dreams.  At first, we tried to send clues to the
dream world by using smells and sounds.  In one experiment, I
tape-recorded my own voice saying, “I am dreaming, now!” A
technician would play the tape when I was in REM sleep, making it
gradually louder. However, as soon as the sound became loud enough
for me to hear in the dream, it would wake me up.  This was when
we decided to send light to the dream, instead. Light could be
more easily incorporated into the dream and used as a clue to
induce a lucid dream, for someone trained to look for the
flashinglight in their dream.

Robert: So, forgiving my pun, you and Stephen saw the light.  How
did that work?

Beverly: We developed a mask that people could wear to sleep at
night, which could recognize REM eye movements.  If a person was
in REM sleep, it would then flash a light, which would get
incorporated into the dream. If users were trained to look for the
light, they could learn to question whether or not the light was
from the mask, and, more importantly, question whether or not they
were dreaming. The light might appear as flashing stoplights in
street scenes, or as lightning flashing in the sky.  Many versions
of this dream mask eventually got developed, including the Dream
Light and the Nova Dreamer.

I created the first business plan to market this lucidity
induction device.  I also helped Stephen give lucid dreaming
workshops.  In 1990, I decided to lead my own personal groups and
workshops on lucid dreaming, which soon became lucid
dreaming/lucid living.

Robert: Interesting.  When you started out on your own leading
lucid dream workshops, did you feel like you had your own unique
vision of lucid dreaming?

Beverly: Sharing a little of my introduction to lucid dreaming
will clarify how I look at things. When we become “lucid” in our
Some people never remember their dreams, some remember them after
after or before they awaken. Lucid dreamers remember they dream
while the dream takes place. They do not necessarily analyze the
dream, or look for symbols, but directly and consciously
experience the dream, shortening the time it takes to realize they

necessarily. Also, I personally believe in levels of lucidity, as
a spectrum. I would say I am partially lucid, if I just remember
if I know I am dreaming for sure. I consider myself very lucid, if
but I have a very powerful, spiritual-like experience.

experiment, solve problems, accomplish goals, and go wherever my
imagination takes me, taking care to balance spontaneity and
control. I have learned that sometimes it is better to surrender
to the dream. Other times, it helps to take control, change
things, or carry out goals.

I have remembered, on average, half a dozen dreams per night, for
most of my life. I’d say that between 2 and 20 dreams per week
were lucid, to various degrees.  So, I’d say a good estimate of
how many lucid dreams I have had would be 20,000. Unfortunately, I
am not a very good recorder of dreams, nor I have organized my
dream reports very well. I have, however, kept track of the ones I
consider most valuable.

Robert: A thousand here, a thousand there- at that point, who’s
counting?  No, that’s incredible.  So how have you used your lucid
dreaming knowledge and skills in your presentations and workshops?

Beverly: Here are a few examples of how I worked with my students
in my groups. I would often ask my students to choose a goal for a
lucid dream.  One student told me he’d like to bike around the
world.  I told him to start simple. He first had to become lucid,
remember the task, stay in the dream, and find a bike to ride.  He
accomplished this in several months.  Finally, one day he reported
that he had ridden his bike through Russia in his dreams. Shortly
after this, he told me that he could no longer attend my group. He
was quitting his job, selling his house, and taking five years off
to bike around the world!

Another time, a friend I had just met asked me to dream for him.
I dreamed I was in a theater and was watching a movie that he is
in. Later, I told him the story, and I discovered that I had
dreamed his life, including things he never told anyone.

Once, I told a friend’s eight year old nephew about lucid
dreaming. I helped him practice lucid dream induction techniques
while awake.  I asked him what he’d like to do in a dream.  He
said he’d like to meet a president of the United States.  In a few
days, he called me to tell me that he had a lucid dream. He didn’t
find Washington or Lincoln, but he did meet up with the artist,
Leonardo da Vinci. He said that it was okay, because da Vinci was
famous too. I asked him what happened. He told me that he asked da
Vinci if da Vinci knew that he was in the encyclopedia.  Then he
showed da Vinci some of his own artwork.  The boy was very happy
with his lucid dream, and very pleased with himself.

Robert: Did listening to your students’ lucid experiences and
challenges inspire you to try out new things in your own lucid

Beverly: Yes, sometimes I would decide ahead of time to meet up
with people in my dreams.  I have succeeded in dreaming of the
people, but none have ever told me that they had the same dream.
That would be called a “mutual dream.”  It is easier for me to
attempt a mutual dream when I am lucid, because I can stop and
remember my goal. I have an easier time making it happen, as well.

I often try to accomplish tasks for my students so we can discuss
issues that arise, and also to see if we could have a mutual
dream. Here is a dream I had when trying to have a mutual dream
with a student named Sharon.

I found myself in front of my childhood home and noticed that it
looked strange. The door wasn’t in the right place and the house
was situated improperly on the block. This happens often in my
dreams, so at that moment I became lucid. I knew I was dreaming
and I remembered that I had a goal for this dream. However, I saw
a neighbor, who I knew had died, and I first stopped to talk to
her.  In previous dreams, I would see her and say, “You are dead!”
and try to get on with my goal. She would get upset and say, “I’m
here now, so talk to me!” Unless I did, I learned that I would
have trouble completing my goal.

My goal for the dream was to meet Sharon in the Bahamas.
Immediately, I began to fly like superman heading south, because I
was in the Chicago area at the time.  It was dark, and I had a
long way to go. By this time in my lucid dreaming experience, I
could fly through electric wires that were in my way, but now I
had another idea. I could make myself miniature, go into the wire
as electricity itself, and get there very quickly. So I got tiny
and popped into the nearest wire, which appeared like a large
tunnel once I was inside. I was whisked very fast, shooting
headfirst down the line, until I abruptly popped out the end of
the wire. As my normal self again, I was somewhere at the southern
tip of the United States, at the ocean’s edge, where the electric
lines stopped.

I realized I didn’t have much time left, and I decided to travel
the rest of the way underwater, doing a kind of superman
swim/flying. I soon got distracted by the lovely underwater life
and the joy of moving so fast, while breathing the water. I
finally made it to a lovely beach in the Bahamas. I asked a guy,
who was serving drinks to the sunbathers, if there was a
restaurant nearby. This was the place where Sharon and I agreed we
would try to meet. He pointed down the beach, and I walked to a
resort type building, and then through a long hall. I was about to
ask the host if Sharon was waiting for me, when I saw “her”
sitting on a bench. She didn’t look like she was expecting me, so
I said, “Don’t you remember that you said you wanted to dream of
going to the Bahamas, and I said I’d meet you in a lucid dream of
my own? Well, this is it. We are dreaming now.”

I was thinking that this dream girl was “Sharon,” a dream-body who
was connected to Sharon, who was probably asleep in bed in
Mountain View, California. If I had seen her as a projection of
myself, I may have decided not to talk to her, believing that she
wasn’t connected in any way to the physical Sharon. In this case,
I said to her, “Well, I’ll tell you a secret, and we’ll see if you
remember it when I see you in our group next week.” I whispered a
secret in her ear, and soon afterwards I woke up.

Robert: So what happened after this lucid dream?  Did she call you
in waking reality or have any memory of the dream?

Beverly: When Sharon came to my lucid dreaming group that Sunday
night, she had forgotten the goal and had never dreamed of me, nor
the Bahamas. I am still waiting, as I am with others, for her to
report a related dream or for her to tell me the secret!

Around this time, I had a dream where I was riding my bike down
the street of my childhood home. I became lucid and started flying
into the air. I was flying over the nearby river, when a cartoon
figure of a dolphin floated in front of me.  The dolphin danced
around, and then asked me if I’d like to go on an adventure. After
putting out its fin for me to hold onto, it proceeded to pull me
down into the ocean, which was now where the river had previously
been. Something similar had happened to me, with a whale shark, in
the waking state, while I was scuba diving. The dolphin and I
traveled deeper and deeper, faster and faster. I felt both
ecstatic and somewhat dizzy, almost as though the experience were
too intense.  I woke up, however, feeling fantastic; very
peaceful, yet energized.

Robert: That’s great.  Did you have any more experiences with
dolphins in dreams or waking life?

Beverly: A few years later, I noticed an ad from a man who took
people on dolphin expeditions. I contacted him, and we eventually
did a joint lucid dreaming/dolphin swimming workshop on a sailboat
in the Bahamas.  On this trip, while I was in the crystal clear
water of the open sea, one of the dolphins rubbed up to me.
Underwater, its color and shape looked remarkably similar to the
dolphin of my dreams.

Robert: So what other lucid dreaming stories come to mind?

Beverly: When I was thirty-seven years old, I became very anxious
to find a mate, get married, and have children. During the
Christmas holidays, while visiting my parents, I had the following
dream.  I met up with myself at the age of twenty-one, who was sad
because she was about to leave her college boyfriend, so she could
travel and have a career.  I told my twenty-one year old self that
I had done those things. I said that I now wanted a husband and
children.  She introduced me to my alternative self, who was also
37, and who had married my college boyfriend. They had three
children, and now she wanted to divorce him. My twenty-one year
old self and I decided that everything was as it should be.
Finally, I woke up. As I am writing down the dream, I hear an
inner voice, as if from a future self, who says, “Everything is
perfect as it is!” I finally believed it. I trusted that I would
find my perfect mate, when the time was right. I didn’t need to
worry about it. I decided that if life is a dream, then my dreams
would come true. I imagined that anything was possible, even after
I read a Newsweek article, which said that a woman was more likely
to die from terrorists, than to get married after forty! I did,
however, prepare my life for my future family by buying a house,
getting a dog, which was supposed to be good with kids, and taking
a job as a college teacher, which I thought would work well with
being a mom. I met my husband two years after this dream.

Robert: It’s interesting in that story how your conversation in
the lucid dream leads to a strong conviction that “Everything is
perfect as it is!” and following that revelation, you move ahead
and buy a house and prepare for your future family. That is one
thing that many casual lucid dreamers fail to see – how a lucid
dream experience can be as powerful or more powerful than many
significant waking experiences. Have you ever used waking reality
to practice becoming lucid?

Beverly: In my groups, we would practice becoming lucid while
awake. I would give my students exercises, such as, questioning if
they are dreaming, several times a day. For example, I asked them
to check if they were dreaming every time they washed their hands
during the day. I jokingly said, “If your hand falls off, you are
most definitely in a dream!”  Around this time, I was also helping
my mother with her dreams of my dad after he died, in 1992.  She
was having recurring dreams of my dad, who would appear next to
her bed.  She would fear that he was here to take her to heaven.
I told my mom, “If you see dad, remember that he died, and
therefore you must be dreaming!”  A few days after I gave my group
the hand exercise, she was able to get lucid in her recurring
dream.  My mother remembered that my father had died, and she knew
she was dreaming. She was even able to take his hand, and his hand
fell off.She did not know about the exercise when she reported the
dream to me the next morning.

Robert: Beautiful.  Did trying to become lucid while awake lead to
any revelations?

Beverly: Yes, I saw how powerful it could be to become lucid in
waking life.
I met my husband, Chris, six months after my father died. It was
the most lucid day I have ever experienced.  We were at a party,
and I saw him from across the room. I knew that he was my future.
It was love at first sight.
I was able to stay in the moment, without fear, and with total
trust.  I believed in magic, while been totally accepting whatever
happened.  I was able to listen to him, as if he were truly part
of myself.

I was very sorry, however, that he never got to meet my father,
when I had the next dream. I was in my childhood home, where my
mom still lived, and I saw my dad on the couch. I remembered that
he died, and that I must be dreaming.  I went to sit next to him
and told him that I loved him. I asked him why, lately, he hadn’t
appeared as often in my dreams.  He said that he was helping me
from under the bridge. I’m not sure what he meant, but I was happy
to hear his voice and feel him close. Next, I embraced him, and
after we hugged, I looked back into his eyes. He had turned into
my husband, whom I so much wanted my dad to meet.  I soon awakened
and felt as though they had finally met, at some level.

Chris and I were married in less than a year after we met. We knew
that we wanted to have a child.  After much medical help to get
pregnant, I decided to work on the issue in my dreams.

I decided to dream of our future baby. I would ask questions of
the baby in the dream such as, “When are you coming?” I would also
try to determine what year it was in the dream.  Sometimes the
baby would have messages.

Robert: It’s fascinating how you seem to work on “the future” to
some degree in your lucid dreams.  Maybe it is not the future, so
much as your hopes for the future.  Did you have many other lucid
dreams of trying to influence the future?

Beverly: One time, in waking reality, I was back in my childhood
home, alone for the first time. My mom was ill, and in the
hospital. My Dad had died over two years ago. I was afraid, crying
in my bed. I fell asleep. Spontaneously, without trying to
influence the future, I had a type of nurturing dream involving
the future. I became lucid in my dream, when I noticed that the
baby, from my baby picture on the wall, was coming out of the
picture.  I walked over to myself as a baby, just in time to take
the baby in my arms. As I held her, I saw my face in hers, and I
pulled her to my chest. I could see her lips sucking at my breast,
and I felt very fulfilled. I slowly awakened, and I felt my own
lips moving, as well.  I was deeply nurtured. A year later I
nursed my own child in that very bed!

Before my son, Adrian, was born, however, I also had some
interactions with my childhood witches. My witch dreams went
through many transformations during my life. In 1960, I faced up
to the scary witches from my recurring nightmares. In the 1970’s,
I looked for the witches of my childhood in a dream, and they
appeared as harmless, little old ladies. In the 1980’s, I noticed
that the witch drama appeared in my waking life as well. In 1994,
doctors gave me terrible odds against having a child. So, I looked
for the witches in a lucid dream, thinking of them as my “creative
power,” and I brought them into my uterus. Within a year, I got
pregnant with my son, Adrian.

Adrian was born during the 1995 Association for the Study of
Dreams Conference (ASD95). This was three years after I presented
the paper at ASD92 called, “What I Learned from Lucid Dreaming is
Lucid Living.” I brought him to the ASD96 conference. He also came
to the ASD97 conference, where I gave a workshop called, “Living
Life as a Lucid Dream.” Adrian turned two on the day of the dream

Robert: In a way, it seems that your lucid dreaming skills allowed
you to use that beautiful symbol of witches as creative power for
your own ends.  In a sense, you claimed the power of the shadow.

Robert: How did your lucid dreaming develop after the birth of
your son?

Beverly: My mom was feeling better during the years after my son
Adrian was born. She visited us often, and we would go to Chicago
to see her, as well. Adrian and she became best friends. In the
year 2000, I had the biggest challenge of my life. Adrian had
started kindergarten. I talked to my mom on the phone almost every
day. She was still living in my childhood home, near Chicago. Six
days before her planned trip to visit us in California for the
holidays, she drove a friend to lunch. That night she told her
neighbor that she was feeling good. I had a dream that night,
which I shared with Chris and Adrian during breakfast. In the
dream, I went to help a woman I loved, who was hanging on her
house by her fingertips. Soon, I was hanging by my fingertips, as
well. Chris told us that he dreamed we were going on a trip, and I
was quickly getting ready.

That morning, in Chicago, my mother didn’t answer her door, so her
neighbor came in. She found my mom on the floor, next to her bed,
unconscious. The doctors called me to say that my mom had had a
sudden, massive stroke, and all four quadrants of her brain were
instantly destroyed. She would only exist in a vegetative state. I
needed to take her off life-support, as she requested in her
living will. Chris, Adrian, and I flew to Chicago immediately.
Needless to say, the next twelve days before Christmas were a very
difficult and emotional time.

Robert: I remember the year before my father passed away, I had a
number of lucid and apparently precognitive dreams giving me
information – but on one level, nothing can prepare you for it.
How did you deal with this?

Beverly: First, I needed to give the okay to remove her
ventilator. Everyone thought that she would die at this point. The
night before this was scheduled, I had a dream that my husband and
I were at the edge of the beach. A tidal wave was coming. In the
distance, we saw angels flying toward us in a “V” formation. We
thought the tidal wave would demolish us, but instead, the angels
flew right over our heads and protected us. This dream told me
that I would be able to survive this ordeal. Coincidentally, the
ventilator was removed at the exact time that her plane to
California was scheduled to take off. However, she still lived,
and we had more decisions to make. Do we give her an IV? Is
glucose considered food? We did not want to prolong her life in
this state. One time, I stayed up all night with her in the
hospital. When I finally did go to bed, I had a dream of her. She
said to me, “Get some sleep, I’ll take care of the body.”

Finally, it was Christmas Eve. My mom and I had been together
almost every year of my life at midnight Mass on Christmas Eve, in
my hometown church. Christmas Eve was her favorite day of the
year. She always said, “If we are ever lost, let’s meet on this
night at our church, in our regular seats”. My mother died right
at midnight, officially Christmas Day morning.

After her funeral, I stayed alone in my childhood home for another
few weeks, to go through fifty years of stuff that had been
collected. I made the decision to rent out the house.

Robert: That must have been an extremely difficult and emotional
time. Did dreaming help, or was that painful too?

Beverly: My life, as well as my dreams, was quite a struggle after
this. In my dreams, I hated to see my mom, only to remember that
she had died, which would happen when I was lucid. This was too
much to handle. I didn’t want to be reminded, once again, in the
sleep state, that my mother had died. It was enough to deal with
it while awake. I decided not to have lucid dreams for a while. I
had a strong intent and a physical need for this to happen. I did
have regular, non-lucid dreams of her.

At each stage of my grief, these non-lucid dreams of my mother
evolved. First, I dreamed of her and I doing our usual activities.
I could have enjoyed these dreams, if I didn’t have to feel such
shock when I woke up and remembered that she had indeed died.
Next, I started dreaming that my mother did not die after all.
Then, I had dreams in which she had died, but mysteriously came
back to life. I didn’t question this in the dreams.

I had many dreams of my childhood home during this time, as well.
I did not get lucid, even with great clues, such as when house was
changed in impossible ways. Things were very bizarre. Other people
were living there, as was now the case with the renters, in
reality. I felt angry and confused.

I went to grief therapy for over a year. Using peer counseling and
group sharing, I demonstrated more and more acceptance of my
mother’s death. Little by little, I took the knowledge of her
death into my dreams and began to explain it to other dream
characters. Finally, after explaining my mother’s death to my
“father” in a dream, I was able to interact with my “mother,” and
actually discuss her death. At this point, I had a significant
degree of lucidity, and my dreams felt more comfortable, and
sometimes enlightening.

Robert: I recall that a month after my father’s death, I became
lucid and insisted on seeing my father. Amazingly, the dream
characters told me that “no, it is too soon”. So instead, I had a
fascinating conversation with them. After that my dream characters
in lucid dreams were quite supportive and caring, and I did go on
to have lucid conversations with my deceased father. How did your
lucid dreaming progress?

Beverly: In the spring of the year 2002, a year and a half after
my mother’s death, the lease was up on my childhood home. I needed
to sell the house. But could I? Spontaneously, I dreamed that I
found the witches in my childhood home. I surrendered to them, and
they pulled me under the closet door, where they came from. I
merged with the witches. The biggest fears of my childhood were
resolved. In my dreams, my fear was to go with the witches. In
life, my fear was my mother’s death. At last, I could sell the
house easily, and I felt that I had healed quite a bit. In the
last dream I had of my childhood home, I flew out the picture
window like a powerful witch.

After this, I would bring my mother into my dreams. We would
embrace and I’d say, “I love you and I miss you, mom.” Sometimes,
in my dreams, I am still convincing her that she really died. This
tells me that some level of grief still exists. One time, in a
dream, I said to my mom, “You are safe now, you are in heaven!” I
heard the message for myself, as I see my mother as part of my
higher self, the Dreamer of life. I presented my grief dreams in a
paper at ASD2003 called, “Witches, the House, and Grief:
Developing and Avoiding Lucid Dreaming.” I was now in a place to
get on with discussing my work on “lucid living!”

Robert: Yes, please tell us about lucid living.

Beverly: Before I discuss lucid living, I need to define a few
more terms. When discussing a non-lucid dream while awake, I refer
my physical self’s brain contains my physical self’s mind. I also
of life.”

Robert: So in a regular dream, you consider the dream creator as
apart from the dream actor. But in a lucid dream, you are aware
that the dream creator is also a portion of the dream actor, and
in that sense, the awareness is expanded. Right?

Beverly: Yes, but I’d clarify that in a regular, non-lucid dream,
from the “perspective” of the dream actor, the dream creator seems
to be separate or actually never even considered.

Although I usually say that my dream exists in my physical self’s
mind, it usually feels as though my dream self, whom you have
called the dream actor, and my physical self exist in separate
my thoughts definitely do not come from my dream self’s mind or
goals than my physical self.

my physical self’s mind and not in physical reality (where my
dreamer) can imagine can happen. By believing that everyone and
everything around me in the dream, including my dream self and
other dream characters, exists in my physical self’s mind, I
all “parts of a whole.”

Robert: Okay, I think I am following you. How does this relate to
lucid living?

Beverly: When I view my waking life as a dream, a dream in which I
or philosophy. The assumptions that come from viewing life as a
in life.

dreaming techniques that I learned from my sleeping dream
experiences, to more easily become lucid in my waking life. When
accomplish goals, feel connected, and maybe even experience magic

Robert: So you try to transpose the lessons and experiences of
achieving results in lucid dreaming, to the world of waking
reality. In so doing, you have used this knowledge and perception
to support your experience of lucid living.

Beverly: In lucid living, I think of our physical selves as dream
another dimension. Other times, I view the Dreamer as a
nonphysical “God” or an all-encompassing, collective “Mind.” I
guess there could be levels of Dreamers as well.

“parts of a whole.”

Robert: So how do you suggest one go about achieving this state,
and living waking life lucidly?

Beverly: Throughout my life, I have developed techniques for
many uses for lucid dreaming. Some of these uses include:
psychological development, trying new behaviors, healing, and
more. I’ve found that all of my techniques, below, can apply,
dreams or in waking life.

often look for unusual or impossible situations. In my sleeping
my reactions turn powerful, and I began to relax.
Robert: In other words, you use odd actions or events as a notice
to step back from the event and become more broadly aware, just as
we all do in lucid dreams. This is opposed to regular dreams or
regular waking life, where, unaware, we let ourselves get more
drawn into the odd or fearful event. In lucid living, you act like
your lucid dreaming self, right?

Beverly: Yes, sometimes I “act as if,” or pretend I am dreaming. I
stories of yogis levitating.

Another valuable technique is to review recurring dreams and
nightmares and practice imagining myself having new reactions. I
have learned to modify my reaction to a monster in a recurring
at key times in waking life. The key involves viewing the monster
Higher-Self, or the Dreamer of life.

dreams and my waking life situations. I especially like to do
waking life.

Robert: Could you tell us about a possible exercise to become more
lucid in either state?

Beverly: Here is an example of an exercise. I stop and I ask
myself if I could be dreaming several times a day, perhaps every
this technique helps me become lucid both in my waking and
sleeping states.

become lucid in sleeping dreams involves setting goals. Sometimes,
I become lucid and decide not to change the direction of my dream,
motivated to become and remain lucid. In my lucid dreaming
steps that they can accomplish from wherever they might find
themselves, and I tell them to decide this ahead of time, while
dreams. This applies to waking life as well.

become more lucid, and to accomplish intricate goals within them.

Robert: Well that sounds like something anyone could try. But what
about lucid living?

Beverly: There are aspects of lucid dreaming that apply to lucid
we may identify our physical bodies with our selves. The same
fact that we could have responded differently had we realized that
we’d dreamed.

merely change focus as well?

could have responded more fully and with more freedom in our

Robert: It’s interesting in lucid dreaming, and perhaps this goes
for lucid living as well, that a broader awareness leads to the
realization of a new type of relationship with the so-called
reality around you. In turn, the aware person begins to act in
that so-called reality in a new way. In lucid living, are one’s
actions different?

Beverly: Yes. For example, lucid dreamers have experienced the
amazing feeling of having an exciting goal for a dream and making
life and set upon accomplishing tasks with a new outlook that
understanding of how we may block our selves and try again,
knowing we have endless possibilities.

An example, from an early stage of my sleeping lucid dream
to my destination because I kept hitting telephone poles. When I
that created the telephone poles to begin with!

experience an altered state of consciousness, and at the extreme,
we can have what one might call “mystical experiences.”

Robert: Okay, but even in some of our lucid dreams, we become
frustrated – we can’t fly very well, or the dream characters won’t
do what we want them to do. What about those cases?

Beverly: In lucid dreams, I try to remember that all the dream
characters make up parts of my dreamer’s mind. Similarly, the next
time we find ourselves in an undesirable situation in our waking
parts of our Higher-Self, the Dreamer.

understand the Dreamer. Like puppets who act as though they are
separate and disconnected, we often feel disconnected. Using the
realizing that it is the puppeteer who makes everything happen.

Robert: Well, I’m not too happy with the word, “puppet”, but I do
get the point that the creator of the dream/waking reality is also
involved, consciously or not, with the creations in that
dream/waking reality. So there is a connection there, if we are
lucid enough to wake up to it. Do you have examples of lucid
living that would demonstrate your point?

Beverly: Remember, the true puppet has no more or less powers than
the puppeteer. In essence they are “one and the same!”

life. Once, during an argument with my cousin in the waking state,
of view seemed related instead of opposed.

Another time, a friend, in the waking state, was yelling and
hovering over me like the witches from my sleeping dreams. I
noticed the similarities to the witch nightmares, and I saw this
to my friend like I faced up to the witches, without fear, but
with acceptance, and my friend suddenly stopped, walked away, and

living has assisted me in having such an incredible and diverse
Robert: For many of us longtime lucid dreamers, we have similar
stories. But do you think these ideas can be accepted by someone
new to lucid dreaming?

Beverly: In my experience as a lucid dreaming teacher, my students
found it easier to become lucid in their sleeping dreams, once
they understood the concept and believed it possible. When they
began to question whether or not they dreamed and looked for
evidence, they often noticed something unusual and became lucid.

Perhaps people would accept psychic phenomena, or synchronicities
understanding how I could possibly have had my first amazing,
precognitive dreams. Psychic phenomena could also serve as clues
for becoming lucid in waking life.

Robert: You know, I have often thought that in life, we simply
live our assumptions. In lucid dreams, you begin to see that idea
in an immediate sense. When you change your expectations in a
lucid dream, the dream changes to accommodate the changes. It
seems the same thing happens in waking life.
Beverly: Yes, I believe lucid living can have a profound effect on
lucid dreaming skills, whether when asleep or during our waking
practicing lucid living, we strive to live the most illuminating,
clear, and conscious waking life as possible.

We can also obtain a greater understanding of what spiritual
telling us for ages:

Hindu Maya: Waking life is an illusion; Buddhist: Philosophy of
Connectedness; Christianity: Resurrection after death; The Course
of Miracles: Live the Happy Dream; The Wizard of Oz: There’s no
place like home; Shakespeare: All the world’s a stage; Star Trek:
to the truth.

is but a dream.

Robert: Beverly, thanks for your sage advice and insights. Life is
but a dream.

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Sugar Cookie Bars

Sugar Cookie Bars

I used to have an obsession with Grandma’s Sugar Cookies. You know, the giant pink frosted ones. It’s been quite some time since I’ve had one, and recently I’ve been craving that sugary goodness. So when I saw this recipe for sugar cookie bars, I knew I had to make them immediately.

Whereas typical sugar cookies require a day’s commitment, to refrigerate, roll, bake, and decorate, the simple act of baking it as a bar cookie simplifies that process immediately. No rolling. No cutting. No painstaking decorating of dozens of individual cookies.

Sugar Cookie Bars

The final result, while I wouldn’t say it’s exactly like the Grandma’s cookies (which is probably a good thing – who knows what they put in those things!), it is just as satisfying. It’s as if a sugar cookie and a sheet cake had a summer fling. Nine months later, you’d end up with these. They taste like a sugar cookie but feel like a dense cake, which I loved since I like my cookies soft to begin with.

So if you are craving a sugar cookie but are too lazy to break out the rolling pin, give these a go. Looking back, I should have colored the frosting pink rather than the minty green they ended up (pretty, yes, but deceiving—being that they contain no mint whatsoever). There’s just something so perfectly nostalgic about pink frosting atop a sugar cookie.

Sugar Cookie Bars

Makes 32 bars. Adapted from Recipe Girl.

1 cup unsalted butter, at room temperature
2 cups granulated sugar
4 large eggs
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
5 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon salt
1/2 teaspoon baking soda

1 cup butter; at room temperature
1 teaspoon vanilla extract
pinch of salt
4 cups powdered sugar, sifted
5 tablespoons milk
food coloring, if desired

In a separate bowl sift together flour, salt, and baking soda. Slowly add to butter mixture and mix just until combined. Grease a large rimmed baking sheet (a 13x18 or 10x15 jelly roll pan) or line with parchment paper. Gently and evenly spread out batter onto sheet.

Bake at 375 degrees F for 10-15 minutes (mine took more like 20-25 minutes), until light golden brown and a toothpick comes out clean. Allow to cool completely before frosting.