<h2>Subsidized Full Nodes Are A Bad Idea</h2>

<p>Nick answers your other questions well, but I wanted to provide a more complete answer for this question:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>If they're not subsidized, why not?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>Subsidizing full nodes is a bad idea. If the value of the subsidy is substantial, it will likely attract people trying to scam the subsidy program by creating nodes designed to receive the subsidy rather than help the network.</p>

<h3>Parallels With Mining</h3>

<p>Mining is subsidized, and from about 2010 to about 2013 (and even some afterwards), hackers frequently installed CPU mining software on hacked computers to claim the subsidy using other people's resources.  It wasn't until CPU and GPU mining became useless – i.e. non-subsidized – that the hackers stopped.</p>

<p>Because full nodes provide the highest level of transaction security, we want them to be as accessible as possible to users – so we can't require specialized hardware or require users spend too much manual time setting them up.  And because Bitcoin is decentralized, we also can't do things like validate identities or use other centralized tools for reducing fraud.</p>

<p>That means we can't offer a subsidy for running full nodes without also allowing hackers to claim that subsidy for running full nodes on other people's computers.</p>

<h3>Parallels With SMTP</h3>

<p>You might think that other people's hacked computers shouldn't be our problem, but it does become our problem.  Either we stop people from abusing our system, or people who make security software will stop people from <em>using</em> our system.  For years now, my home ISP has blocked port 25 (the Simple Mail Transport Protocol, SMTP) because it is used by many botnets to send spam. If it becomes common for botnets to run full nodes, we'll likely see Bitcoin's port 8333 blocked as well.</p>

<h3>Conclusion</h3>

<p>Rather than paying random people on the Internet to manage our network security for us, we should make it easier to run a full node so more people can enjoy the security and privacy benefits that come from running their own node.</p>

<p>(To this end, the Bitcoin Core developers are working on improvements such as the <a href="https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-guide#headers-first">headers-first sync</a> included in 0.10.0 and the upcoming <a href="https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4701">auto pruning</a>, which will reduce the disk space requirements for full nodes, as well as several other improvements.)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-03-01T14:44:30.787Z
2015-03-01T21:58:39.627Z
2015-03-01T21:58:39.627Z
David A. Harding
<p><a href="https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/" rel="nofollow">Bitnodes</a> is incentivizing node operators:</p>

<h1><a href="https://bitcoinmagazine.com/19620/bitnodes-project-issues-first-incentives-node-operators/" rel="nofollow">Bitnodes Project Issues First Incentives For Node Operators</a></h1>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-03-16T20:37:21.270Z
2015-03-16T20:37:21.270Z
Geremia
<p>I wanted to challenge the idea that we should not incentivise the running of nodes.</p>

<p><strong>What I am not saying:</strong> I am not saying to write incentivising into the core.</p>

<p>I believe we do need to think about how node operation can be encouraged via financial incentive, this is because long term I believe that all things that provide value should be encouraged via micropayments. </p>

<p><strong>Why</strong>?</p>

<p>Financial incentives create a feedback loop in which the market helps optimize. This creates more development and faster iterations and more collaboration on it.</p>

<p><strong>How?</strong></p>

<p>This could exist as a sidechain, alt-pegged coin, or even how p2pnodes work which is up to the node provider on how much the charge. </p>

<p><strong>Conclusion</strong></p>

<p>Just wanted to see more discussion on this! All of you have good points above, however, I see them as things we need to think about when thinking about how to provide incentive to running full nodes.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-14T21:06:42.477Z
I don't find this answer useful because it only transitively responds to the question, but mainly discusses other answers instead. Also, it fails to address the main issue: The problem is to figure out who deserves an incentive, not how to distribute it. – Discussion is not something that works well on the Stackexchange platform, as answers shift about as they are up- and downvoted. Please only post answers to respond to the question. If you must discuss other answers, post comments on them. Instead define a new topic by asking a new question, e.g. "Should Bitcoin nodes be incentivized?".
Murch
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-18T21:27:15.540Z
Good point, on creating a new question. I have not discussed much dialog on stack exchange yet, so I do agree that it discusses other answers and should of been posted as a comment. However, as a comment it is useful as it provides contrast to your answer.
nkdejong
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-18T21:38:58.150Z
I found your discussion very helpful in explain why not, however, it seemed to shut the door on the option as making it a closed discussion. Until nodes are plentiful in bitcoin, the lack of nodes is still a problem. We need to encourage thinking of many options until the problem is solved.
nkdejong
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-19T00:08:05.880Z
nkdejong: Stackexchange was designed for Q&A, it doesn't work for discussions. If you want to discuss, you would probably prefer reddit or one of the numerous forums.
Murch
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-12-14T20:22:53.390Z
2015-12-14T20:22:53.390Z
nkdejong
<blockquote>
  <p>Are these people incentivized to run nodes?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>No. Their reasons for running a full node varies. Some of them want Bitcoin to succeed. Some of them are merchants and run a full node as part of their business. Some of them have spare computing power, and don't have a strong preference as to how it's used.  It's worked out reasonably well so far.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>If not, why not?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>It's extremely challenging to prove that you're running a full node. <a href="https://github.com/basil00/PseudoNode" rel="noreferrer">This code</a> pretends to be a full node, though it really just forwards requests it can't answer to other nodes.</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>If so, do node operators make some BTC from transaction fees, etc.?</p>
</blockquote>

<p>No. Miners receive transaction fees, although it's not a substantial part of the overall block reward. (Most node operators are not miners.)</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-03-02T13:28:26.647Z
Good answer, but if you look deeper there are actually incentives (and you hint at them already) : if you run a (big) company/bank/moneytransfer/exchange that depends on Bitcoin, you'd be silly to not bear the negligible cost of running at least one full node as the cost is. Another incentive is that anyone with a stake in Bitcoin should want to help make the network as robust and smooth as possible for everyone: that positively affects the usefulness and price of BTC. Another reason is to check that miners are being honest and have voting power when there's a fork or simply a new version.
Jannes
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-03-03T08:56:33.390Z
No he's asking "incentivized". An incentive doesn't need to be money. "Subsidized" would be the word there. The more I think about it, the correct answer definitely needs to be along the lines of "Yes, but not in a directly monetary way." The incentives might be small, but that's fine, as long as they are big enough to persuade a decent amount of people/companies to run a full node. (For any definition of "decent amount".)
Jannes
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-03-03T15:28:41.577Z
@Jannes Here's a quote from the question. `Are people incentivized with BTC to run nodes?`
Nick ODell
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-03-03T21:09:15.967Z
Ah I see what you mean now. I read it as 'with/in the Bitcoin system'. Your interpretation makes more sense though, so your right. Although i don't think it hurts mentioning the non-monetary incentives, as it might lead readers to the wrong conclusion. This is also why David's answer is an important addition.
Jannes
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-02-28T20:12:38.437Z
2016-08-31T17:41:21.023Z
2016-08-31T17:41:21.023Z
Nick ODell
<p><a href="https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/">Bitnodes</a> shows everyone running nodes.</p>

<p>Are these people incentivized to run nodes? If not, why not? If so, do node operators make some BTC from transaction fees, etc.?</p>

<nodes>
Are people incentivized with BTC to run nodes?
Geremia
# Are people incentivized with BTC to run nodes?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2015-02-28)

[Bitnodes](https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/) shows everyone running nodes.

Are these people incentivized to run nodes? If not, why not? If so, do node operators make some BTC from transaction fees, etc.?

**Tags:** nodes


---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_4 on 2015-02-28. Score: 16 | Accepted answer

> Are these people incentivized to run nodes?

No. Their reasons for running a full node varies. Some of them want Bitcoin to succeed. Some of them are merchants and run a full node as part of their business. Some of them have spare computing power, and don't have a strong preference as to how it's used. It's worked out reasonably well so far.

> If not, why not?

It's extremely challenging to prove that you're running a full node. [This code](https://github.com/basil00/PseudoNode) pretends to be a full node, though it really just forwards requests it can't answer to other nodes.

> If so, do node operators make some BTC from transaction fees, etc.?

No. Miners receive transaction fees, although it's not a substantial part of the overall block reward. (Most node operators are not miners.)

> **Comments:**
> **username_5**: Good answer, but if you look deeper there are actually incentives (and you hint at them already) : if you run a (big) company/bank/moneytransfer/exchange that depends on Bitcoin, you'd be silly to not bear the negligible cost of running at least one full node as the cost is. Another incentive is that anyone with a stake in Bitcoin should want to help make the network as robust and smooth as possible for everyone: that positively affects the usefulness and price of BTC. Another reason is to check that miners are being honest and have voting power when there's a fork or simply a new version.  
> **username_5**: No he's asking "incentivized". An incentive doesn't need to be money. "Subsidized" would be the word there. The more I think about it, the correct answer definitely needs to be along the lines of "Yes, but not in a directly monetary way." The incentives might be small, but that's fine, as long as they are big enough to persuade a decent amount of people/companies to run a full node. (For any definition of "decent amount".)  
> **username_4**: @username_5 Here's a quote from the question. `Are people incentivized with BTC to run nodes?`  
> **username_5**: Ah I see what you mean now. I read it as 'with/in the Bitcoin system'. Your interpretation makes more sense though, so your right. Although i don't think it hurts mentioning the non-monetary incentives, as it might lead readers to the wrong conclusion. This is also why username_1's answer is an important addition.  

---

### Answer by username_1 on 2015-03-01. Score: 11

## Subsidized Full Nodes Are A Bad Idea

username_4 answers your other questions well, but I wanted to provide a more complete answer for this question:

> If they're not subsidized, why not?

Subsidizing full nodes is a bad idea. If the value of the subsidy is substantial, it will likely attract people trying to scam the subsidy program by creating nodes designed to receive the subsidy rather than help the network.

### Parallels With Mining

Mining is subsidized, and from about 2010 to about 2013 (and even some afterwards), hackers frequently installed CPU mining software on hacked computers to claim the subsidy using other people's resources. It wasn't until CPU and GPU mining became useless – i.e. non-subsidized – that the hackers stopped.

Because full nodes provide the highest level of transaction security, we want them to be as accessible as possible to users – so we can't require specialized hardware or require users spend too much manual time setting them up. And because Bitcoin is decentralized, we also can't do things like validate identities or use other centralized tools for reducing fraud.

That means we can't offer a subsidy for running full nodes without also allowing hackers to claim that subsidy for running full nodes on other people's computers.

### Parallels With SMTP

You might think that other people's hacked computers shouldn't be our problem, but it does become our problem. Either we stop people from abusing our system, or people who make security software will stop people from *using* our system. For years now, my home ISP has blocked port 25 (the Simple Mail Transport Protocol, SMTP) because it is used by many botnets to send spam. If it becomes common for botnets to run full nodes, we'll likely see Bitcoin's port 8333 blocked as well.

### Conclusion

Rather than paying random people on the Internet to manage our network security for us, we should make it easier to run a full node so more people can enjoy the security and privacy benefits that come from running their own node.

(To this end, the Bitcoin Core developers are working on improvements such as the [headers-first sync](https://bitcoin.org/en/developer-guide#headers-first) included in 0.10.0 and the upcoming [auto pruning](https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/pull/4701), which will reduce the disk space requirements for full nodes, as well as several other improvements.)


---

### Answer by username_0 on 2015-03-16. Score: 1

[Bitnodes](https://getaddr.bitnodes.io/) is incentivizing node operators:

# [Bitnodes Project Issues First Incentives For Node Operators](https://bitcoinmagazine.com/19620/bitnodes-project-issues-first-incentives-node-operators/)


---

### Answer by username_2 on 2015-12-14. Score: -2

I wanted to challenge the idea that we should not incentivise the running of nodes.

**What I am not saying:** I am not saying to write incentivising into the core.

I believe we do need to think about how node operation can be encouraged via financial incentive, this is because long term I believe that all things that provide value should be encouraged via micropayments.

**Why**?

Financial incentives create a feedback loop in which the market helps optimize. This creates more development and faster iterations and more collaboration on it.

**How?**

This could exist as a sidechain, alt-pegged coin, or even how p2pnodes work which is up to the node provider on how much the charge.

**Conclusion**

Just wanted to see more discussion on this! All of you have good points above, however, I see them as things we need to think about when thinking about how to provide incentive to running full nodes.

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: I don't find this answer useful because it only transitively responds to the question, but mainly discusses other answers instead. Also, it fails to address the main issue: The problem is to figure out who deserves an incentive, not how to distribute it. – Discussion is not something that works well on the Stackexchange platform, as answers shift about as they are up- and downvoted. Please only post answers to respond to the question. If you must discuss other answers, post comments on them. Instead define a new topic by asking a new question, e.g. "Should Bitcoin nodes be incentivized?".  
> **username_2**: Good point, on creating a new question. I have not discussed much dialog on stack exchange yet, so I do agree that it discusses other answers and should of been posted as a comment. However, as a comment it is useful as it provides contrast to your answer.  
> **username_2**: I found your discussion very helpful in explain why not, however, it seemed to shut the door on the option as making it a closed discussion. Until nodes are plentiful in bitcoin, the lack of nodes is still a problem. We need to encourage thinking of many options until the problem is solved.  
> **username_3**: username_2: Stackexchange was designed for Q&A, it doesn't work for discussions. If you want to discuss, you would probably prefer reddit or one of the numerous forums.  

---

