<p>This is the typescript implementation which is used by the iancoleman tool: <a href="https://github.com/AndreasGassmann/bip85" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://github.com/AndreasGassmann/bip85</a></p>
<ol>
<li>The &quot;order&quot; of mnemonics is the same, assuming the implementations are correct. The derivation path that is used is defined in the specs. Specifically, it is: <code>&quot;m/${BIP85_DERIVATION_PATH}'/${BIP85_APPLICATIONS.BIP39}'/${language}'/${words}'/${index}'&quot;</code> (Taken from the BIP85 library linked above).
Reference: <a href="https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.mediawiki#12-english-words" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.mediawiki#12-english-words</a></li>
<li>You can generate millions of them by increasing the index. You can get even more by using an additional BIP39 passphrase.</li>
<li>I'm not a cryptographer, but it's probably about as likely as randomly generating the same mnemonic 2 times by accident.</li>
</ol>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-09T03:38:50.983Z
>You can get even more by using an additional BIP39 passphrase.  / That would derive an entirely new "set" though, right? So if my first "root mnemonic" were compromised, I would switch all the derived wallets over to the new root's derived set.
HansBKK
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-09T03:50:48.893Z
The derived path + specified indices do indeed define sentence order deterministically. Pretty sure a good answer, will just leave it open a bit longer?
HansBKK
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-11T17:11:30.990Z
If you use a BIP39 passphrase, an attacker that has your "root mnemonic" will have to know your BIP39 passphrase to get your derived child mnemonics. So the security here depends on how long your BIP39 passphrase is. But generally, if your root mnemonics is compromised, you should consider your child mnemonics compromised as well and you should move to a completely new mnemonic.
Andreas Gassmann
CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-08T15:53:12.100Z
2022-03-08T15:53:12.100Z
Andreas Gassmann
<p>There aren't many working implementations of BIP85 yet.</p>
<p>Ian Coleman's, Grondilu just added support to their Bitcoin Bash Tools, COLDCARDwallet, AirGap Vault and the Python demonstration library <a href="https://github.com/ethankosakovsky/bip85" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https://github.com/ethankosakovsky/bip85</a></p>
<p>Please post comments with any others you know of.</p>
<p>All should generate the same set of mnemonic sentences, but is <strong>the order</strong> supposed to be the same?</p>
<p>So I could specify &quot;mnemonic #5&quot; and &quot;mnemonic #14&quot; and those index numbers will point to the same sentences no matter which tool I use to generate them?</p>
<p>Also, hypothetically asking only, is there any practical limit to the number of mnemonic sentences generated or can you just keep going say past a million of them?</p>
<p>Is it theoretically possible there might be collisions between BIP85 sets?</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2022-03-07T15:02:23.240Z
JavaScript library implementations:                https://github.com/hoganri/bip85-js

https://github.com/scgbckbone/btc-hd-wallet
HansBKK
<bip32-hd-wallets><mnemonic-seed><backup><bip85-deterministic-entropy>
BIP85: Is the list of mnemonic sentences deterministically ordered?
HansBKK
# BIP85: Is the list of mnemonic sentences deterministically ordered?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2022-03-07)

There aren't many working implementations of BIP85 yet.

Ian Coleman's, Grondilu just added support to their Bitcoin Bash Tools, COLDCARDwallet, AirGap Vault and the Python demonstration library <https://github.com/ethankosakovsky/bip85>

Please post comments with any others you know of.

All should generate the same set of mnemonic sentences, but is **the order** supposed to be the same?

So I could specify "mnemonic #5" and "mnemonic #14" and those index numbers will point to the same sentences no matter which tool I use to generate them?

Also, hypothetically asking only, is there any practical limit to the number of mnemonic sentences generated or can you just keep going say past a million of them?

Is it theoretically possible there might be collisions between BIP85 sets?

**Tags:** bip32-hd-wallets, mnemonic-seed, backup, bip85-deterministic-entropy

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: JavaScript library implementations:                https://github.com/hoganri/bip85-js  https://github.com/scgbckbone/btc-hd-wallet  

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## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2022-03-08. Score: 1 | Accepted answer

This is the typescript implementation which is used by the iancoleman tool: <https://github.com/username_1/bip85>

1. The "order" of mnemonics is the same, assuming the implementations are correct. The derivation path that is used is defined in the specs. Specifically, it is: `"m/${BIP85_DERIVATION_PATH}'/${BIP85_APPLICATIONS.BIP39}'/${language}'/${words}'/${index}'"` (Taken from the BIP85 library linked above).
   Reference: <https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0085.mediawiki#12-english-words>
2. You can generate millions of them by increasing the index. You can get even more by using an additional BIP39 passphrase.
3. I'm not a cryptographer, but it's probably about as likely as randomly generating the same mnemonic 2 times by accident.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: >You can get even more by using an additional BIP39 passphrase.  / That would derive an entirely new "set" though, right? So if my first "root mnemonic" were compromised, I would switch all the derived wallets over to the new root's derived set.  
> **username_0**: The derived path + specified indices do indeed define sentence order deterministically. Pretty sure a good answer, will just leave it open a bit longer?  
> **username_1**: If you use a BIP39 passphrase, an attacker that has your "root mnemonic" will have to know your BIP39 passphrase to get your derived child mnemonics. So the security here depends on how long your BIP39 passphrase is. But generally, if your root mnemonics is compromised, you should consider your child mnemonics compromised as well and you should move to a completely new mnemonic.  

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