<p>Ok, I tried the Virwox method and it still works perfectly, although the effective fee was around ~11.3% (plus a fixed $0.5~$0.6 + 0.005 BTC). I could buy 1.184 BTC with USD $330.</p>

<p>In case anyone's interested, the details follow:
Using PayPal, there is a deposit fee of $0.3 + 3.4%, and variable daily/monthly limits (330/3000 in my case). They also accept credit cards, and several other online payment systems. Exchanging USD for SLL has a fee of 2.9% + 50 SLL. Then, exchanging SLL for BTC has a fee of 2.9% + 50 SLL again. They don't allow USD amounts with cents, and something similar happens with SLL, so you end up with some tiny unusable balance (which likely ends up being like a hidden fee). And finally, a 0.005 BTC fee is charged for BTC withdrawal. </p>

<p>All in all, despite being quite costly, it is the only reliable automatic solution I know of, and luckily it's still working as of June 2015.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-18T16:06:25.557Z
2015-06-18T16:06:25.557Z
Juan
<p>I use Paxful,  they have many different payment options including paypal.  It is P2P though, but there is escrow and you can see if the seller is online and if they are it takes about 5 minutes to complete the entire process.  Users have feedback and reviews etc.  You never have to really even talk to the seller, just leave them a message and send the funds through Paypal and they deposit coins in your wallet right away.   Really easy, quick, simple to use.</p>

<p>Also, as far as I know Virwox works, just lots of fees and limits etc as you mentioned.  The limits are through second life, you should go to their website to find out more info.</p>

<h2>UPDATE</h2>

<p>I did Virowox or w/e its called. (sry for late response) .. First transaction is delayed by 2 days. ( I actually did a chargeback and got the BTC for free and they never said anything, I still use them). The rate is crap, but so are p2p sites. Once you do your first tx tho, it's pretty much instant. So fastest would be USD->SLL->BTC on Virowox, but margin is kinda high.  Also the limits are pretty low.   Like 100 bucks until you do stuff to raise the limit I guess. </p>

<p>I also have been using localbitcoins (.com) to do trades, it seems to have more activity than paxful and you can create advertisements even if your a brand new seller with no established reputation on other sites, (unlike paxful). </p>

<p>Other things I have done...</p>

<p>Buy Walmart Gift Cards on my Walmart Credit Card then exchange for BTC on paxful or probably cheaper LBC.   High margin but who cares its credit! :P</p>

<p>Use Google Wallet (after loading it with my paypal debit card) to buy BTC on LBC.</p>

<p>Buy Vanilla Visa Card with Walmart Credit Card,  Paypal Request Payment from myself (with dummy email) then buy BTC on Virowox with Paypal. </p>

<p><strong>FYI</strong> - Don't ever tell the seller you bought it with a credit card, they will run like you have the plague.   And if they notice it somehow, just play dumb and usually they will be cool and do it "just this one time".   </p>

<p>Found some BTC ATM's near me.   Didn't end up using as the fees were too high, but good to know its there in a pinch.  google bitcoin atm locations and you can use your paypal debit card to buy BTC there.</p>

<h2>Fun Stuff to do with BTC</h2>

<p>Buy into Seals with Clubs BTC Poker site,  Win lots of BTC,  cash out only takes a few hours,  entirely anonymous, no documentation or information collected ever.</p>

<p>Go on coinarch (or similar site, but i like coin arch) and daytrade BTC using elliot wave indicators to guide your longs and shorts.  Make lots of BTC,   play more poker,  make more BTC!  haha :P</p>

<p>BTW, BTC about to spike or drop in the toilet, might be worth it to take a long position on it and see where it goes.</p>

<p>Future Plans</p>

<p>Hack the blockchain.  ( haha yeah right )</p>

<p>But actually, scan the blockchain for weak keys in order to calculate private keys.   Is that illegal or anything?  It's just like monopoly money right?  Do you get in trouble if you find out someones private key and jack them for all their BTC?  Maybe I should post that as a question.  I seem to recall something about people getting arrested for similar activity. </p>

<p>Start trader accounts on LBC and Paxful and start trading BTC in my spare time.  Those guys charge quite a lot to sell and buy for cost basically, sometimes a lot less.   And if you accept alternative payment methods that are high risk (like paypal) you get to charge a lot more.  With Paypal you can accept Credit/Debit Cards, Vanilla Visa Gift Cards,  Paypal My Cash,  and probably some other ones.  So it's really kind of a good deal and I just know sooner or later some big company like Paypal or Ebay is going to see the common man making a buck and take it away from us so gotta get while the gettin is good.</p>

<p>I might even code my own BTC Trading site as the two best options I found are kinda janky and I'm a programmer so why not.  :)</p>

<p>I'll post more if I can think of it.  I've been a busy little bitcoiner.  :) </p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-07-27T11:54:37.990Z
Sounds like it's not automatic, but not "too manual" either. Thanks for the info!
Juan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-08-19T03:44:33.407Z
@Juan Updated answer with some new info after trying out virowox and other sites.
Tech Savant
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-07-26T03:12:24.970Z
2015-08-19T04:02:43.367Z
2015-08-19T04:02:43.367Z
Tech Savant
<p>I don't know of any services, especially automatic, which accept PayPal. LocalBitcoins will rarely have vendors accepting PayPal, and even then, it's going to be very much a reputation based judgement call. A vendor accepting PayPal has everything to lose (the Bitcoins and the PayPal money), so I'd be highly doubtful any service would even accept PayPal, let alone without identification or oversight. (Which begs the question, <strong>if you want privacy why are you using PayPal?</strong>)</p>

<p>Maybe try Bitcoin-OTC or <a href="http://btcjam.com" rel="nofollow">BTCJam</a> if you don't like <a href="http://www.LocalBitcoins.com" rel="nofollow">LocalBitcoins</a></p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-16T14:18:09.443Z
Thanks for answering. I'm ok with the level of privacy achieved by using PayPal with some automated service (like Virwox) where my email address may end up in some log file or database; I'd rather avoid having to show my face, utility bill, personal info, or whatever over Skype with some other user, some stranger. I understand why users request that (they don't want to get scammed), but I'd rather go the automatic route. I don't see why all this looks so shady to you guys.
Juan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-16T14:40:23.183Z
Also, I don't have an international bank account, and the balance in my PayPal account is sort of stuck there, since I can't use it for too many things (I pay Netflix, donate to some NGOs, buy some stuff from Walmart when a relative travels to the US, and not much more). I don't have a suitable bank account to send the funds to, and cannot send them to another account either (I'm from Argentina).
Juan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-16T04:09:12.837Z
2015-06-16T04:09:12.837Z
Wizard Of Ozzie
<p>Does anyone know if the Virwox method (buying "linden dollars" with USD from PayPal, and then exchanging linden for BTC) still works, and what are the limits, and cost? (in late 2013, if I recall correctly, there was a $300~$400 USD monthly limit, and the effective cost was really high, around ~16%). </p>

<p>Also, does anybody know of any other reliable method, preferably automatic (hence, not localbitcoins) of buying BTC with PayPal? (by automatic I mean not depending on direct interaction with some other user).</p>

<p>I know similar questions have already been asked, but they're old and some methods no longer work.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-15T21:39:06.677Z
Can you give some explanation of why you want to do this?  It seems like just the sort of thing that someone would want who had unauthorized access to a bunch of Paypal accounts and wanted to steal their balances and convert them to Bitcoins (for untraceability).  So for that reason, I'd have some reservations about answering this question, and likewise I'd expect that Paypal would take steps to make this difficult.
Nate Eldredge
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-15T22:23:34.083Z
Your comment surprises me. Your argument could also be applied to credit cards, cash, and possibly other means of funding. I'd rather avoid LocalBitcoins (or whatever other "manual" services out there) for privacy and speed, that's all. I just want privacy; that should not be considered suspicious. You could as well suspect all bitcoin users are criminals.
Juan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-16T04:01:42.200Z
@Juan It was a simple question. Which you didn't answer. You don't have to answer it of course, but you should know that SE frequently requires clarification on questions. If you want an answer, then consider clarifying the question, or wait for a response. No need for offence.
Wizard Of Ozzie
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-16T14:02:55.333Z
@WizardOfOzzie Regarding "No need for offence": I don't know in what direction you meant that, but I didn't mean to offend anyone, and didn't take offense myself either. Regarding Nate's question, it didn seem like a request for clarification in the usual sense (since it's irrelevant for the purpose of finding an answer). Anyway, I did answer part of the question, which could be stated as two questions: a) "Why do you want to buy BTC with PayPal?" And b) "why without interacting with users?".
Juan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-16T14:08:27.530Z
I already answered b): for privacy. The answer for a) is not very useful: "Cause I want to buy BTC, and the funds I plan to use are in PayPal". Want more details? I'm working on a trading algorithm, I want to add some funds to test it in the real world, and I have some money in a PayPal account (of mine, not stolen) with which I hope to buy some BTC. Now, come on, you must admit people are not normally asked to give this much detail. Check previous "Buy BTC with PayPal" questions.
Juan
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-16T14:12:36.100Z
@Juan The underlying issue with this is that it's difficult to see the rationale behind using PayPal and then wanting complete privacy; my response below pretty much covers the options. PayPal trades died out in early 2013 to the best of my knowledge: eBay has inflated Bitcoin auctions items, but it's rife with scams on both sides
Wizard Of Ozzie
CC BY-SA 3.0
2015-06-16T14:33:20.657Z
@WizardOfOzzie I see. Well, as I said in a comment to your answer, I don't want "complete privacy". I'm ok with using PayPal with some service, but not so much with providing lots of info to a individual stranger.
Juan
<buy-bitcoins><paypal>
Buying BTC with PayPal, preferably automatic, mid 2015
Juan
# Buying BTC with PayPal, preferably automatic, mid 2015

(Asked by: username_0 on 2015-06-15)

Does anyone know if the Virwox method (buying "linden dollars" with USD from PayPal, and then exchanging linden for BTC) still works, and what are the limits, and cost? (in late 2013, if I recall correctly, there was a $300~$400 USD monthly limit, and the effective cost was really high, around ~16%).

Also, does anybody know of any other reliable method, preferably automatic (hence, not localbitcoins) of buying BTC with PayPal? (by automatic I mean not depending on direct interaction with some other user).

I know similar questions have already been asked, but they're old and some methods no longer work.

**Tags:** buy-bitcoins, paypal

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Can you give some explanation of why you want to do this?  It seems like just the sort of thing that someone would want who had unauthorized access to a bunch of Paypal accounts and wanted to steal their balances and convert them to Bitcoins (for untraceability).  So for that reason, I'd have some reservations about answering this question, and likewise I'd expect that Paypal would take steps to make this difficult.  
> **username_0**: Your comment surprises me. Your argument could also be applied to credit cards, cash, and possibly other means of funding. I'd rather avoid LocalBitcoins (or whatever other "manual" services out there) for privacy and speed, that's all. I just want privacy; that should not be considered suspicious. You could as well suspect all bitcoin users are criminals.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 It was a simple question. Which you didn't answer. You don't have to answer it of course, but you should know that SE frequently requires clarification on questions. If you want an answer, then consider clarifying the question, or wait for a response. No need for offence.  
> **username_0**: @username_2 Regarding "No need for offence": I don't know in what direction you meant that, but I didn't mean to offend anyone, and didn't take offense myself either. Regarding username_1's question, it didn seem like a request for clarification in the usual sense (since it's irrelevant for the purpose of finding an answer). Anyway, I did answer part of the question, which could be stated as two questions: a) "Why do you want to buy BTC with PayPal?" And b) "why without interacting with users?".  
> **username_0**: I already answered b): for privacy. The answer for a) is not very useful: "Cause I want to buy BTC, and the funds I plan to use are in PayPal". Want more details? I'm working on a trading algorithm, I want to add some funds to test it in the real world, and I have some money in a PayPal account (of mine, not stolen) with which I hope to buy some BTC. Now, come on, you must admit people are not normally asked to give this much detail. Check previous "Buy BTC with PayPal" questions.  
> **username_2**: @username_0 The underlying issue with this is that it's difficult to see the rationale behind using PayPal and then wanting complete privacy; my response below pretty much covers the options. PayPal trades died out in early 2013 to the best of my knowledge: eBay has inflated Bitcoin auctions items, but it's rife with scams on both sides  
> **username_0**: @username_2 I see. Well, as I said in a comment to your answer, I don't want "complete privacy". I'm ok with using PayPal with some service, but not so much with providing lots of info to a individual stranger.  

---

## 3 answers

### Answer by username_0 on 2015-06-18. Score: 0 | Accepted answer

Ok, I tried the Virwox method and it still works perfectly, although the effective fee was around ~11.3% (plus a fixed $0.5~$0.6 + 0.005 BTC). I could buy 1.184 BTC with USD $330.

In case anyone's interested, the details follow:
Using PayPal, there is a deposit fee of $0.3 + 3.4%, and variable daily/monthly limits (330/3000 in my case). They also accept credit cards, and several other online payment systems. Exchanging USD for SLL has a fee of 2.9% + 50 SLL. Then, exchanging SLL for BTC has a fee of 2.9% + 50 SLL again. They don't allow USD amounts with cents, and something similar happens with SLL, so you end up with some tiny unusable balance (which likely ends up being like a hidden fee). And finally, a 0.005 BTC fee is charged for BTC withdrawal.

All in all, despite being quite costly, it is the only reliable automatic solution I know of, and luckily it's still working as of June 2015.


---

### Answer by username_3 on 2015-07-26. Score: 1

I use Paxful, they have many different payment options including paypal. It is P2P though, but there is escrow and you can see if the seller is online and if they are it takes about 5 minutes to complete the entire process. Users have feedback and reviews etc. You never have to really even talk to the seller, just leave them a message and send the funds through Paypal and they deposit coins in your wallet right away. Really easy, quick, simple to use.

Also, as far as I know Virwox works, just lots of fees and limits etc as you mentioned. The limits are through second life, you should go to their website to find out more info.

## UPDATE

I did Virowox or w/e its called. (sry for late response) .. First transaction is delayed by 2 days. ( I actually did a chargeback and got the BTC for free and they never said anything, I still use them). The rate is crap, but so are p2p sites. Once you do your first tx tho, it's pretty much instant. So fastest would be USD->SLL->BTC on Virowox, but margin is kinda high. Also the limits are pretty low. Like 100 bucks until you do stuff to raise the limit I guess.

I also have been using localbitcoins (.com) to do trades, it seems to have more activity than paxful and you can create advertisements even if your a brand new seller with no established reputation on other sites, (unlike paxful).

Other things I have done...

Buy Walmart Gift Cards on my Walmart Credit Card then exchange for BTC on paxful or probably cheaper LBC. High margin but who cares its credit! :P

Use Google Wallet (after loading it with my paypal debit card) to buy BTC on LBC.

Buy Vanilla Visa Card with Walmart Credit Card, Paypal Request Payment from myself (with dummy email) then buy BTC on Virowox with Paypal.

**FYI** - Don't ever tell the seller you bought it with a credit card, they will run like you have the plague. And if they notice it somehow, just play dumb and usually they will be cool and do it "just this one time".

Found some BTC ATM's near me. Didn't end up using as the fees were too high, but good to know its there in a pinch. google bitcoin atm locations and you can use your paypal debit card to buy BTC there.

## Fun Stuff to do with BTC

Buy into Seals with Clubs BTC Poker site, Win lots of BTC, cash out only takes a few hours, entirely anonymous, no documentation or information collected ever.

Go on coinarch (or similar site, but i like coin arch) and daytrade BTC using elliot wave indicators to guide your longs and shorts. Make lots of BTC, play more poker, make more BTC! haha :P

BTW, BTC about to spike or drop in the toilet, might be worth it to take a long position on it and see where it goes.

Future Plans

Hack the blockchain. ( haha yeah right )

But actually, scan the blockchain for weak keys in order to calculate private keys. Is that illegal or anything? It's just like monopoly money right? Do you get in trouble if you find out someones private key and jack them for all their BTC? Maybe I should post that as a question. I seem to recall something about people getting arrested for similar activity.

Start trader accounts on LBC and Paxful and start trading BTC in my spare time. Those guys charge quite a lot to sell and buy for cost basically, sometimes a lot less. And if you accept alternative payment methods that are high risk (like paypal) you get to charge a lot more. With Paypal you can accept Credit/Debit Cards, Vanilla Visa Gift Cards, Paypal My Cash, and probably some other ones. So it's really kind of a good deal and I just know sooner or later some big company like Paypal or Ebay is going to see the common man making a buck and take it away from us so gotta get while the gettin is good.

I might even code my own BTC Trading site as the two best options I found are kinda janky and I'm a programmer so why not. :)

I'll post more if I can think of it. I've been a busy little bitcoiner. :)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Sounds like it's not automatic, but not "too manual" either. Thanks for the info!  
> **username_3**: @username_0 Updated answer with some new info after trying out virowox and other sites.  

---

### Answer by username_2 on 2015-06-16. Score: 1

I don't know of any services, especially automatic, which accept PayPal. LocalBitcoins will rarely have vendors accepting PayPal, and even then, it's going to be very much a reputation based judgement call. A vendor accepting PayPal has everything to lose (the Bitcoins and the PayPal money), so I'd be highly doubtful any service would even accept PayPal, let alone without identification or oversight. (Which begs the question, **if you want privacy why are you using PayPal?**)

Maybe try Bitcoin-OTC or [BTCJam](http://btcjam.com) if you don't like [LocalBitcoins](http://www.LocalBitcoins.com)

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks for answering. I'm ok with the level of privacy achieved by using PayPal with some automated service (like Virwox) where my email address may end up in some log file or database; I'd rather avoid having to show my face, utility bill, personal info, or whatever over Skype with some other user, some stranger. I understand why users request that (they don't want to get scammed), but I'd rather go the automatic route. I don't see why all this looks so shady to you guys.  
> **username_0**: Also, I don't have an international bank account, and the balance in my PayPal account is sort of stuck there, since I can't use it for too many things (I pay Netflix, donate to some NGOs, buy some stuff from Walmart when a relative travels to the US, and not much more). I don't have a suitable bank account to send the funds to, and cannot send them to another account either (I'm from Argentina).  

---

