<p>Yes. If you mine at a given point in time, you do not know when a block will be found, and thus your reward for shares you submit is a random variable. DGM is constructed so that the average reward for a submitted share is always equal to what you would get from it in PPS (assuming equal fees). The total reward for all shares you submit is additive - so it follows that the average reward you get in DGM is equal to what you would get in PPS, no matter what is your mining pattern.</p>

<p>However, the reward you will get is random and has some variance, and the variance is greater if your mining is intermittent. The exact degree of this depends on the parameters used by the pool.</p>

<p>More background information about mining pool reward methods can be found in <a href="https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf" rel="nofollow">Analysis of Bitcoin Pooled Mining Reward Systems</a>.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-12-26T09:17:51.870Z
Not quite always equal I think. I believe with plain PPS the pool operator  wears the cost of block withholding attacks, but with DGM the other miners wear most of the cost.
Highly Irregular
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-12-26T09:49:39.207Z
@HighlyIrregular: This is true, the analysis assumes finding shares and submitting them is an atomic action. However, block withholding is also more expensive to carry out against DGM; and, this is not relevant to the specific question about intermittent mining - in the broadest sense, the payout in PPS will be lower because of the higher fee (which exist to compensate for the risks, one of which is block withholding).
Meni Rosenfeld
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-11-26T08:20:05.250Z
2012-11-26T08:20:05.250Z
Meni Rosenfeld
<p>As far as I know, yes. The expected value (in BTC) of a share is constant in time, for a given difficulty/pool-hashrate/etc.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-09-14T20:07:25.907Z
2012-09-14T20:07:25.907Z
Streblo
<p>If you are only mining a few hours a day, this will not likely work for you.  </p>

<p>The way DGM works is that at the start of a new block all miners start to gain credit for the block.  All miners will gain a cut.  For instants when I mine with 1.6 GH in a pool with about 1.8 TH I'll receive 0.043xxx BTC when the block is solved.  If the block takes 5 minutes I get that for 5 minutes work.  If it takes 5 hours then I have to work for 5 hours.  Over time this averages out so long runs and short runs are inconsequential.  However if you mine on a 5 hour block for only 2 hours then your reward is going to be substantially lower.</p>

<p>Another point worth mentioning.  On many pools your award is not paid until the block is confirmed.  This usually takes about a day.</p>

<p>My recommendation is to use a PPS Pool if you are going to only be mining from time to time.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-11-25T20:35:03.660Z
I'm afraid this is incorrect. You will be rewarded on average in exact proportion to your work on DGM. You don't know in advance when a block will be found, so you're as likely to get more than average as less.
Meni Rosenfeld
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-12-02T19:31:01.193Z
The process of averaging works if you mine constantly.  It you mine for a few hours a day, you are not going to receive the same proportional share as if you mined constantly.  Since the end goal for DGM is to provide an average value that is equal to PPS, my suggestion is to mine PPS if you are going to mine only for a few hours a day.
osok
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-12-02T19:31:48.060Z
I have mined both ways and I mine constantly with 1.6 GH and I still perfer PPS.  With DGM if a block is invalidate then you don't get paid.  What i saw was I made less the two days I mined DGM and I had wait 24 hours for the 120 confirmations of the blocks before I was paid.  I think that DGM favors the pool operator, where as PPS favors the miner.
osok
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-12-03T05:57:24.267Z
Again, this is wrong. However, SE comments are not suited for debates, and I will be happy to take this elsewhere.
Meni Rosenfeld
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-12-03T05:57:53.830Z
There's no free lunch, PPS only pays for invalid block by taking an extra fee to compensate for them. Mining rewards are random and depend on the pool's luck in finding blocks so you can't learn anything by experimenting for 2 days. PPS has more variance for the operator and less for miners, but correspondingly the operator will take more fees.
Meni Rosenfeld
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-12-15T20:24:16.597Z
Moving away from the debate (I agree this is not the place for it), but back to the fact this user only wants to mine for a few hours a day. Which is better?
osok
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-12-15T20:46:25.337Z
It depends on personal preferences. From a purely economical point, DGM will be better because the variance is not high enough to be meaningful. But psychologically PPS will be much better for his peace of mind, and if the fee is reasonable like 5% I think it's worth it.
Meni Rosenfeld
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-11-25T19:44:35.650Z
2012-11-25T19:44:35.650Z
osok
<p>I find it interesting that the creator of DGM is here, claiming user statements are incorrect. As with any "hop-proof" payout schema... </p>

<p>It has the net effect of punishing miners who don't mine for an entire round. DGM greatly reduced the risk to the pool op by transferring those losses to the miners. PPS is exactly the opposite, pool ops take all the risk &amp; variance instead of miners. </p>

<p>DGM is for pool ops who can't manage their business well enough to keep correct reserves. Miners will quickly find their earnings decreased and start looking for other more favorable payout schemas.</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-05-12T04:37:52.327Z
Like it or not, PPS increases risk for the pool operator. Risk costs money. That money must come from somewhere.
Nick ODell
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-05-23T13:46:46.700Z
Risk and loss are not the same thing. In DGM miners have more variance, but this means they can get either more or less than normal. On average they will get the same amount in both PPS and DGM, assuming the same fee - which means, on the long run they will get more on DGM because of the lower fee.
Meni Rosenfeld
CC BY-SA 3.0
2013-05-11T18:29:49.863Z
2013-05-11T18:29:49.863Z
nobody
<p>The "double geometric" payout method as used on the Ozco.in pool is supposed to be fair and prevent pool hopping, but is this method fair to miners that only mine for a few hours per day, as opposed to miners that mine 24/7?</p>

CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-06-23T02:06:31.097Z
Some linking would be appreciated. Also, you might want to check this resource out - https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf
ThePiachu
CC BY-SA 3.0
2012-06-23T02:21:51.573Z
Related: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/q/370/516
Highly Irregular
<mining-pools><pool-payout-methods>
Is the "double geometric" payout method for pooled mining fair to part time miners?
Sean Chapman
# Is the "double geometric" payout method for pooled mining fair to part time miners?

(Asked by: username_0 on 2012-06-23)

The "double geometric" payout method as used on the Ozco.in pool is supposed to be fair and prevent pool hopping, but is this method fair to miners that only mine for a few hours per day, as opposed to miners that mine 24/7?

**Tags:** mining-pools, pool-payout-methods

> **Comments:**
> **username_1**: Some linking would be appreciated. Also, you might want to check this resource out - https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf  
> **username_2**: Related: http://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/q/370/516  

---

## 4 answers

### Answer by username_3 on 2012-11-26. Score: 2

Yes. If you mine at a given point in time, you do not know when a block will be found, and thus your reward for shares you submit is a random variable. DGM is constructed so that the average reward for a submitted share is always equal to what you would get from it in PPS (assuming equal fees). The total reward for all shares you submit is additive - so it follows that the average reward you get in DGM is equal to what you would get in PPS, no matter what is your mining pattern.

However, the reward you will get is random and has some variance, and the variance is greater if your mining is intermittent. The exact degree of this depends on the parameters used by the pool.

More background information about mining pool reward methods can be found in [Analysis of Bitcoin Pooled Mining Reward Systems](https://bitcoil.co.il/pool_analysis.pdf).

> **Comments:**
> **username_2**: Not quite always equal I think. I believe with plain PPS the pool operator  wears the cost of block withholding attacks, but with DGM the other miners wear most of the cost.  
> **username_3**: @username_2: This is true, the analysis assumes finding shares and submitting them is an atomic action. However, block withholding is also more expensive to carry out against DGM; and, this is not relevant to the specific question about intermittent mining - in the broadest sense, the payout in PPS will be lower because of the higher fee (which exist to compensate for the risks, one of which is block withholding).  

---

### Answer by username_4 on 2012-09-14. Score: 1

As far as I know, yes. The expected value (in BTC) of a share is constant in time, for a given difficulty/pool-hashrate/etc.


---

### Answer by username_5 on 2012-11-25. Score: -1

If you are only mining a few hours a day, this will not likely work for you.

The way DGM works is that at the start of a new block all miners start to gain credit for the block. All miners will gain a cut. For instants when I mine with 1.6 GH in a pool with about 1.8 TH I'll receive 0.043xxx BTC when the block is solved. If the block takes 5 minutes I get that for 5 minutes work. If it takes 5 hours then I have to work for 5 hours. Over time this averages out so long runs and short runs are inconsequential. However if you mine on a 5 hour block for only 2 hours then your reward is going to be substantially lower.

Another point worth mentioning. On many pools your award is not paid until the block is confirmed. This usually takes about a day.

My recommendation is to use a PPS Pool if you are going to only be mining from time to time.

> **Comments:**
> **username_3**: I'm afraid this is incorrect. You will be rewarded on average in exact proportion to your work on DGM. You don't know in advance when a block will be found, so you're as likely to get more than average as less.  
> **username_5**: The process of averaging works if you mine constantly.  It you mine for a few hours a day, you are not going to receive the same proportional share as if you mined constantly.  Since the end goal for DGM is to provide an average value that is equal to PPS, my suggestion is to mine PPS if you are going to mine only for a few hours a day.  
> **username_5**: I have mined both ways and I mine constantly with 1.6 GH and I still perfer PPS.  With DGM if a block is invalidate then you don't get paid.  What i saw was I made less the two days I mined DGM and I had wait 24 hours for the 120 confirmations of the blocks before I was paid.  I think that DGM favors the pool operator, where as PPS favors the miner.  
> **username_3**: Again, this is wrong. However, SE comments are not suited for debates, and I will be happy to take this elsewhere.  
> **username_3**: There's no free lunch, PPS only pays for invalid block by taking an extra fee to compensate for them. Mining rewards are random and depend on the pool's luck in finding blocks so you can't learn anything by experimenting for 2 days. PPS has more variance for the operator and less for miners, but correspondingly the operator will take more fees.  
> **username_5**: Moving away from the debate (I agree this is not the place for it), but back to the fact this user only wants to mine for a few hours a day. Which is better?  
> **username_3**: It depends on personal preferences. From a purely economical point, DGM will be better because the variance is not high enough to be meaningful. But psychologically PPS will be much better for his peace of mind, and if the fee is reasonable like 5% I think it's worth it.  

---

### Answer by username_6 on 2013-05-11. Score: -2

I find it interesting that the creator of DGM is here, claiming user statements are incorrect. As with any "hop-proof" payout schema...

It has the net effect of punishing miners who don't mine for an entire round. DGM greatly reduced the risk to the pool op by transferring those losses to the miners. PPS is exactly the opposite, pool ops take all the risk & variance instead of miners.

DGM is for pool ops who can't manage their business well enough to keep correct reserves. Miners will quickly find their earnings decreased and start looking for other more favorable payout schemas.

> **Comments:**
> **username_7**: Like it or not, PPS increases risk for the pool operator. Risk costs money. That money must come from somewhere.  
> **username_3**: Risk and loss are not the same thing. In DGM miners have more variance, but this means they can get either more or less than normal. On average they will get the same amount in both PPS and DGM, assuming the same fee - which means, on the long run they will get more on DGM because of the lower fee.  

---

