<p>Seems you are a bit unlucky here: the pay command tried two different routes which both failed, and then couldn't find a third route. The first one failed at node <code>02f6725f9c1</code> which I happen to have access to. So let's see what the error was. The path tried to route 147900 mSatoshi over that channel (plus some fees but let's ignore that for now). At the time of the attempt the channel looked like this from the node:</p>

<pre><code>$ lightning-cli listpeers | jq '.peers[] | select(.id == "02e8334fcab092f496bce7421e8d711d41cbbfef0429bb30149784418df53dd1b1")'
{
  "id": "02e8334fcab092f496bce7421e8d711d41cbbfef0429bb30149784418df53dd1b1",
  "connected": false,
  "channels": [
    {
      "state": "CHANNELD_NORMAL",
      "short_channel_id": "520051:68:0",
      "channel_id": "8f48128e5be0d9f7c0d142388b22cd8eb7e624333c25ae0de9790486101c4579",
      "funding_txid": "79451c10860479e90dae253c3324e6b78ecd228b3842d1c0f7d9e05b8e12488f",
      "msatoshi_to_us": 0,
      "msatoshi_to_us_min": 0,
      "msatoshi_to_us_max": 0,
      "msatoshi_total": 50000000,
      "dust_limit_satoshis": 546,
      "max_htlc_value_in_flight_msat": 18446744073709552000,
      "their_channel_reserve_satoshis": 0,
      "our_channel_reserve_satoshis": 546,
      "channel_reserve_satoshis": 0,
      "spendable_msatoshi": 0,
      "htlc_minimum_msat": 0,
      "their_to_self_delay": 144,
      "our_to_self_delay": 144,
      "to_self_delay": 144,
      "max_accepted_htlcs": 483,
      "status": [
        "Loaded from database"
      ],
      "in_payments_offered": 0,
      "in_msatoshi_offered": 0,
      "in_payments_fulfilled": 0,
      "in_msatoshi_fulfilled": 0,
      "out_payments_offered": 0,
      "out_msatoshi_offered": 0,
      "out_payments_fulfilled": 0,
      "out_msatoshi_fulfilled": 0
    }
  ]
}
</code></pre>

<p>As you can see, all funds are owned by the remote side <code>02e8334fcab</code>, so there is no way for us to send in that direction (if we have 10 bucks on the table and the other side owns all of it, I can't possibly pay them with the money). The <code>pay</code> command therefore saw the failure and attempted again.</p>

<p>For the second attempt, the payment still goes over <code>02f6725f9c1</code>, but this time we have sufficient balance to forward it:</p>

<pre><code>lightning-cli listpeers | jq '.peers[] | select(.id == "02ad6fb8d693dc1e4569bcedefadf5f72a931ae027dc0f0c544b34c1c6f3b9a02b")'
{
  "id": "02ad6fb8d693dc1e4569bcedefadf5f72a931ae027dc0f0c544b34c1c6f3b9a02b",
  "connected": true,
  "channels": [
    {
      "state": "CHANNELD_NORMAL",
      "short_channel_id": "528371:1680:1",
      "channel_id": "129a51f6055fb609e163c44ca10f060474348048d239ba66e3c0422a45b09b1f",
      "funding_txid": "1e9bb0452a42c0e366ba39d24880347404060fa14cc463e109b65f05f6519a12",
      "msatoshi_to_us": 501772528,
      "msatoshi_to_us_min": 0,
      "msatoshi_to_us_max": 502073023,
      "msatoshi_total": 2000000000,
      "dust_limit_satoshis": 546,
      "their_channel_reserve_satoshis": 0,
      "our_channel_reserve_satoshis": 20000,
      "channel_reserve_satoshis": 0,
      "spendable_msatoshi": 481772528,
      "htlc_minimum_msat": 0,
      "their_to_self_delay": 144,
      "our_to_self_delay": 240,
      "to_self_delay": 144,
      "max_accepted_htlcs": 483,
      "status": [
        "CHANNELD_NORMAL:Reconnected, and reestablished."
      ],
    }
  ]
}
</code></pre>

<p>But this time the last hop (<code>025e77156e4c5</code>) before reaching your node failed to forward. We can't inspect that last hop without access, but since you mention that you are the other side of the channel you use <code>lightning-cli listpeers</code> to see whether the other side has sufficient balance (<code>msatoshi_to_us</code> &lt; <code>msatoshi_total</code>). My guess is that you opened the channel, and therefore own the entire balance (if you already own all of the money on the table how should they pay you?).</p>

<p>If you first try to transfer some funds somewhere else (just buy some pixels on satoshis.place or read an article on yalls), then you should be able to route to your node.</p>

CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-23T20:41:27.617Z
Thanks @cdecker for the advice, I tried it to buy some pixels on Satoshi's Place with Node 'A' but I got the following error: http://snippi.com/s/t22p5ow

If I type listpayments command I get the following result: http://snippi.com/s/oc4d8t6
ZsZolee
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-24T12:19:30.963Z
Seems the payment took a bit longer than expected so the `pay` command decided to send it to the background. It should eventually resolve into either success or failure.
cdecker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-24T12:39:20.600Z
It gone to 'failure'. I tried even on the other Node, the same happened: http://snippi.com/s/d4406by
ZsZolee
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-24T13:31:20.797Z
The majority of those fail with `failcode=16394`, which is the numeric code for `unknown_next_peer`. This means that the node that reported the failure does not (or more likely no longer has) a channel to the next hop. This should eventually be recognized by your node through gossiping. The other codes 4103 and 4108 are for `temporary_channel_failure` and `fee_insufficient`. All of these seem to be caused by stale network information. Is your node connected and processing gossip (logging about channels being updated)?
cdecker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-24T15:08:35.790Z
I see only the orriginal channels when I use 'listpeers' at both of my nodes.
Node 'A':
http://snippi.com/s/njz6yf9

Node 'B':
http://snippi.com/s/13itv67
ZsZolee
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-24T18:48:33.370Z
That's how it's supposed to work, since only those are your direct peers. `listnodes` and `listchannels` will show all known nodes and channels.
cdecker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-25T15:06:13.050Z
what should I check, when I run those two commands? I got so much results, that I can't even see all of it, just the last 'X' amount.
ZsZolee
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-25T20:39:19.497Z
If you see `channel_update` and `channel_announcement` lines  in the `lightningd` output, then it should be syncing alright.
cdecker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-26T09:41:58.903Z
If I run the 'listnodes' and 'listchannels', on both of my nodes, I don't see in the (partial) results any 'channel_update' or 'channel_announcement'. What should I do now? :(
ZsZolee
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-26T18:08:28.807Z
I don't mean when you call `lightning-cli`, I mean the output of the `lightningd` process.
cdecker
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-07-02T21:06:54.177Z
Finally I got what you needed. Here is the log: http://snippi.com/s/3jb5hy2
ZsZolee
CC BY-SA 4.0
2018-06-23T12:40:43.593Z
2018-06-23T12:40:43.593Z
cdecker
<p>I tried to move funds between my two nodes. From A to B.</p>

<p>'A' node is </p>

<pre><code>035ac00f3bfe7fd991ec7cd9b5fcad0bdaa338c343895e56f4ada7df181bc43622@46.101.114.3:9735
</code></pre>

<p>'B' node is</p>

<pre><code>02b0de5dece2ae1c6cf62dba60e584268b8f27babb936a849e998c2170802efc9b@5.9.72.48:9735
</code></pre>

<p>First I made an invoice on 'B' node with the full amount available on 'A' node (150000 satoshi), but it didn't worked like the second time, when I calculate already the fees into the transaction, so I requested an invoice with 147900 satoshis.</p>

<p>The second invoice I made with the 'B' node:</p>

<pre><code>root@Debian-94-stretch-64-minimal ~/lightning # cli/lightning-cli invoice 147900 1 movingfunds
{
  "payment_hash": "7d7f8720cfa3d745bc15698e7f5908ddf658fa6241cfeb51e3085d338140766a",
  "expiry_time": 1529652202,
  "expires_at": 1529652202,
  "bolt11": "lnbc1479n1pdje9w6pp504lcwgx050t5t0q4dx887kggmhm937nzg887k50rppwn8q2qwe4qdqjd4hhv6twvan82mnywvcqp25ajsmsdp9g9e9xcdwl26f6h37xusn4d2q30mde40lvekrhlcajxs9y6c70qzcmhxcu6kjm6wtm2f6u5dgutn4q3tsluzrmmtvuhw65gpg920uv"
}
</code></pre>

<p>I tried to pay with the 'A' node:</p>

<pre><code>root@LightningN:~/c-lightning/lightning# cli/lightning-cli pay -k maxfeepercent=5 bolt11=lnbc1479n1pdje9w6pp504lcwgx050t5t0q4dx887kggmhm937nzg887k50rppwn8q2qwe4qdqjd4hhv6twvan82mnywvcqp25ajsmsdp9g9e9xcdwl26f6h37xusn4d2q30mde40lvekrhlcajxs9y6c70qzcmhxcu6kjm6wtm2f6u5dgutn4q3tsluzrmmtvuhw65gpg920uv
{ "code" : 205, "message" : "Could not find a route", "data" :
{
  "getroute_tries": 3,
  "sendpay_tries": 2,
  "failures": [
    {
      "message": "reply from remote",
      "type": "FAIL_PAYMENT_REPLY",
      "erring_index": 1,
      "failcode": 4103,
      "erring_node": "02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432",
      "erring_channel": "520051:68:0",
      "route": [
        {
          "id": "02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432",
          "channel": "527929:1112:1",
          "msatoshi": 155190,
          "delay": 326
        },
        {
          "id": "02e8334fcab092f496bce7421e8d711d41cbbfef0429bb30149784418df53dd1b1",
          "channel": "520051:68:0",
          "msatoshi": 154189,
          "delay": 312
        },
        {
          "id": "02ad6fb8d693dc1e4569bcedefadf5f72a931ae027dc0f0c544b34c1c6f3b9a02b",
          "channel": "520051:63:0",
          "msatoshi": 153188,
          "delay": 298
        },
        {
          "id": "025e77156e4c5e1ed62f9ad113ac2115a981ee99fa05d95be9e43add7f785a9b4d",
          "channel": "519778:1560:0",
          "msatoshi": 153187,
          "delay": 154
        },
        {
          "id": "02b0de5dece2ae1c6cf62dba60e584268b8f27babb936a849e998c2170802efc9b",
          "channel": "528515:2266:1",
          "msatoshi": 152188,
          "delay": 10
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message": "reply from remote",
      "type": "FAIL_PAYMENT_REPLY",
      "erring_index": 3,
      "failcode": 4103,
      "erring_node": "025e77156e4c5e1ed62f9ad113ac2115a981ee99fa05d95be9e43add7f785a9b4d",
      "erring_channel": "528515:2266:1",
      "channel_update": "b5bf64e0b15971ffb29e148080d717baac4aa707bd66214fd15585fdb1035af068de16ea66698a780814564733606ac8d1aa06ef9ddcce0d7b1b2e593f8734b06fe28c0ab6f1b372c1a6a246ae63f74f931e8365e15a089c68d61900000000000810830008da00015b2b7930000000900000000000000001000003e700000001",
      "route": [
        {
          "id": "02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432",
          "channel": "527929:1112:1",
          "msatoshi": 154711,
          "delay": 312
        },
        {
          "id": "02ad6fb8d693dc1e4569bcedefadf5f72a931ae027dc0f0c544b34c1c6f3b9a02b",
          "channel": "528371:1680:1",
          "msatoshi": 153710,
          "delay": 298
        },
        {
          "id": "025e77156e4c5e1ed62f9ad113ac2115a981ee99fa05d95be9e43add7f785a9b4d",
          "channel": "514137:241:0",
          "msatoshi": 153709,
          "delay": 154
        },
        {
          "id": "02b0de5dece2ae1c6cf62dba60e584268b8f27babb936a849e998c2170802efc9b",
          "channel": "528515:2266:1",
          "msatoshi": 152710,
          "delay": 10
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
} }
</code></pre>

<p>What's wrong? As I see the final ID is my second nodes ID so, they need to see each other.</p>

<lightning-network><payment><core-lightning>
Lightning Payment failed (Could not find a route)
ZsZolee
# Lightning Payment failed (Could not find a route)

(Asked by: username_0 on 2018-06-22)

I tried to move funds between my two nodes. From A to B.

'A' node is

```
035ac00f3bfe7fd991ec7cd9b5fcad0bdaa338c343895e56f4ada7df181bc43622@46.101.114.3:9735

```

'B' node is

```
02b0de5dece2ae1c6cf62dba60e584268b8f27babb936a849e998c2170802efc9b@5.9.72.48:9735

```

First I made an invoice on 'B' node with the full amount available on 'A' node (150000 satoshi), but it didn't worked like the second time, when I calculate already the fees into the transaction, so I requested an invoice with 147900 satoshis.

The second invoice I made with the 'B' node:

```
root@Debian-94-stretch-64-minimal ~/lightning # cli/lightning-cli invoice 147900 1 movingfunds
{
  "payment_hash": "7d7f8720cfa3d745bc15698e7f5908ddf658fa6241cfeb51e3085d338140766a",
  "expiry_time": 1529652202,
  "expires_at": 1529652202,
  "bolt11": "lnbc1479n1pdje9w6pp504lcwgx050t5t0q4dx887kggmhm937nzg887k50rppwn8q2qwe4qdqjd4hhv6twvan82mnywvcqp25ajsmsdp9g9e9xcdwl26f6h37xusn4d2q30mde40lvekrhlcajxs9y6c70qzcmhxcu6kjm6wtm2f6u5dgutn4q3tsluzrmmtvuhw65gpg920uv"
}

```

I tried to pay with the 'A' node:

```
root@LightningN:~/c-lightning/lightning# cli/lightning-cli pay -k maxfeepercent=5 bolt11=lnbc1479n1pdje9w6pp504lcwgx050t5t0q4dx887kggmhm937nzg887k50rppwn8q2qwe4qdqjd4hhv6twvan82mnywvcqp25ajsmsdp9g9e9xcdwl26f6h37xusn4d2q30mde40lvekrhlcajxs9y6c70qzcmhxcu6kjm6wtm2f6u5dgutn4q3tsluzrmmtvuhw65gpg920uv
{ "code" : 205, "message" : "Could not find a route", "data" :
{
  "getroute_tries": 3,
  "sendpay_tries": 2,
  "failures": [
    {
      "message": "reply from remote",
      "type": "FAIL_PAYMENT_REPLY",
      "erring_index": 1,
      "failcode": 4103,
      "erring_node": "02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432",
      "erring_channel": "520051:68:0",
      "route": [
        {
          "id": "02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432",
          "channel": "527929:1112:1",
          "msatoshi": 155190,
          "delay": 326
        },
        {
          "id": "02e8334fcab092f496bce7421e8d711d41cbbfef0429bb30149784418df53dd1b1",
          "channel": "520051:68:0",
          "msatoshi": 154189,
          "delay": 312
        },
        {
          "id": "02ad6fb8d693dc1e4569bcedefadf5f72a931ae027dc0f0c544b34c1c6f3b9a02b",
          "channel": "520051:63:0",
          "msatoshi": 153188,
          "delay": 298
        },
        {
          "id": "025e77156e4c5e1ed62f9ad113ac2115a981ee99fa05d95be9e43add7f785a9b4d",
          "channel": "519778:1560:0",
          "msatoshi": 153187,
          "delay": 154
        },
        {
          "id": "02b0de5dece2ae1c6cf62dba60e584268b8f27babb936a849e998c2170802efc9b",
          "channel": "528515:2266:1",
          "msatoshi": 152188,
          "delay": 10
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "message": "reply from remote",
      "type": "FAIL_PAYMENT_REPLY",
      "erring_index": 3,
      "failcode": 4103,
      "erring_node": "025e77156e4c5e1ed62f9ad113ac2115a981ee99fa05d95be9e43add7f785a9b4d",
      "erring_channel": "528515:2266:1",
      "channel_update": "b5bf64e0b15971ffb29e148080d717baac4aa707bd66214fd15585fdb1035af068de16ea66698a780814564733606ac8d1aa06ef9ddcce0d7b1b2e593f8734b06fe28c0ab6f1b372c1a6a246ae63f74f931e8365e15a089c68d61900000000000810830008da00015b2b7930000000900000000000000001000003e700000001",
      "route": [
        {
          "id": "02f6725f9c1c40333b67faea92fd211c183050f28df32cac3f9d69685fe9665432",
          "channel": "527929:1112:1",
          "msatoshi": 154711,
          "delay": 312
        },
        {
          "id": "02ad6fb8d693dc1e4569bcedefadf5f72a931ae027dc0f0c544b34c1c6f3b9a02b",
          "channel": "528371:1680:1",
          "msatoshi": 153710,
          "delay": 298
        },
        {
          "id": "025e77156e4c5e1ed62f9ad113ac2115a981ee99fa05d95be9e43add7f785a9b4d",
          "channel": "514137:241:0",
          "msatoshi": 153709,
          "delay": 154
        },
        {
          "id": "02b0de5dece2ae1c6cf62dba60e584268b8f27babb936a849e998c2170802efc9b",
          "channel": "528515:2266:1",
          "msatoshi": 152710,
          "delay": 10
        }
      ]
    }
  ]
} }

```

What's wrong? As I see the final ID is my second nodes ID so, they need to see each other.

**Tags:** lightning-network, payment, core-lightning


---

## 1 answers

### Answer by username_1 on 2018-06-23. Score: 1

Seems you are a bit unlucky here: the pay command tried two different routes which both failed, and then couldn't find a third route. The first one failed at node `02f6725f9c1` which I happen to have access to. So let's see what the error was. The path tried to route 147900 mSatoshi over that channel (plus some fees but let's ignore that for now). At the time of the attempt the channel looked like this from the node:

```
$ lightning-cli listpeers | jq '.peers[] | select(.id == "02e8334fcab092f496bce7421e8d711d41cbbfef0429bb30149784418df53dd1b1")'
{
  "id": "02e8334fcab092f496bce7421e8d711d41cbbfef0429bb30149784418df53dd1b1",
  "connected": false,
  "channels": [
    {
      "state": "CHANNELD_NORMAL",
      "short_channel_id": "520051:68:0",
      "channel_id": "8f48128e5be0d9f7c0d142388b22cd8eb7e624333c25ae0de9790486101c4579",
      "funding_txid": "79451c10860479e90dae253c3324e6b78ecd228b3842d1c0f7d9e05b8e12488f",
      "msatoshi_to_us": 0,
      "msatoshi_to_us_min": 0,
      "msatoshi_to_us_max": 0,
      "msatoshi_total": 50000000,
      "dust_limit_satoshis": 546,
      "max_htlc_value_in_flight_msat": 18446744073709552000,
      "their_channel_reserve_satoshis": 0,
      "our_channel_reserve_satoshis": 546,
      "channel_reserve_satoshis": 0,
      "spendable_msatoshi": 0,
      "htlc_minimum_msat": 0,
      "their_to_self_delay": 144,
      "our_to_self_delay": 144,
      "to_self_delay": 144,
      "max_accepted_htlcs": 483,
      "status": [
        "Loaded from database"
      ],
      "in_payments_offered": 0,
      "in_msatoshi_offered": 0,
      "in_payments_fulfilled": 0,
      "in_msatoshi_fulfilled": 0,
      "out_payments_offered": 0,
      "out_msatoshi_offered": 0,
      "out_payments_fulfilled": 0,
      "out_msatoshi_fulfilled": 0
    }
  ]
}

```

As you can see, all funds are owned by the remote side `02e8334fcab`, so there is no way for us to send in that direction (if we have 10 bucks on the table and the other side owns all of it, I can't possibly pay them with the money). The `pay` command therefore saw the failure and attempted again.

For the second attempt, the payment still goes over `02f6725f9c1`, but this time we have sufficient balance to forward it:

```
lightning-cli listpeers | jq '.peers[] | select(.id == "02ad6fb8d693dc1e4569bcedefadf5f72a931ae027dc0f0c544b34c1c6f3b9a02b")'
{
  "id": "02ad6fb8d693dc1e4569bcedefadf5f72a931ae027dc0f0c544b34c1c6f3b9a02b",
  "connected": true,
  "channels": [
    {
      "state": "CHANNELD_NORMAL",
      "short_channel_id": "528371:1680:1",
      "channel_id": "129a51f6055fb609e163c44ca10f060474348048d239ba66e3c0422a45b09b1f",
      "funding_txid": "1e9bb0452a42c0e366ba39d24880347404060fa14cc463e109b65f05f6519a12",
      "msatoshi_to_us": 501772528,
      "msatoshi_to_us_min": 0,
      "msatoshi_to_us_max": 502073023,
      "msatoshi_total": 2000000000,
      "dust_limit_satoshis": 546,
      "their_channel_reserve_satoshis": 0,
      "our_channel_reserve_satoshis": 20000,
      "channel_reserve_satoshis": 0,
      "spendable_msatoshi": 481772528,
      "htlc_minimum_msat": 0,
      "their_to_self_delay": 144,
      "our_to_self_delay": 240,
      "to_self_delay": 144,
      "max_accepted_htlcs": 483,
      "status": [
        "CHANNELD_NORMAL:Reconnected, and reestablished."
      ],
    }
  ]
}

```

But this time the last hop (`025e77156e4c5`) before reaching your node failed to forward. We can't inspect that last hop without access, but since you mention that you are the other side of the channel you use `lightning-cli listpeers` to see whether the other side has sufficient balance (`msatoshi_to_us` < `msatoshi_total`). My guess is that you opened the channel, and therefore own the entire balance (if you already own all of the money on the table how should they pay you?).

If you first try to transfer some funds somewhere else (just buy some pixels on satoshis.place or read an article on yalls), then you should be able to route to your node.

> **Comments:**
> **username_0**: Thanks @username_1 for the advice, I tried it to buy some pixels on Satoshi's Place with Node 'A' but I got the following error: http://snippi.com/s/t22p5ow  If I type listpayments command I get the following result: http://snippi.com/s/oc4d8t6  
> **username_1**: Seems the payment took a bit longer than expected so the `pay` command decided to send it to the background. It should eventually resolve into either success or failure.  
> **username_0**: It gone to 'failure'. I tried even on the other Node, the same happened: http://snippi.com/s/d4406by  
> **username_1**: The majority of those fail with `failcode=16394`, which is the numeric code for `unknown_next_peer`. This means that the node that reported the failure does not (or more likely no longer has) a channel to the next hop. This should eventually be recognized by your node through gossiping. The other codes 4103 and 4108 are for `temporary_channel_failure` and `fee_insufficient`. All of these seem to be caused by stale network information. Is your node connected and processing gossip (logging about channels being updated)?  
> **username_0**: I see only the orriginal channels when I use 'listpeers' at both of my nodes. Node 'A': http://snippi.com/s/njz6yf9  Node 'B': http://snippi.com/s/13itv67  
> **username_1**: That's how it's supposed to work, since only those are your direct peers. `listnodes` and `listchannels` will show all known nodes and channels.  
> **username_0**: what should I check, when I run those two commands? I got so much results, that I can't even see all of it, just the last 'X' amount.  
> **username_1**: If you see `channel_update` and `channel_announcement` lines  in the `lightningd` output, then it should be syncing alright.  
> **username_0**: If I run the 'listnodes' and 'listchannels', on both of my nodes, I don't see in the (partial) results any 'channel_update' or 'channel_announcement'. What should I do now? :(  
> **username_1**: I don't mean when you call `lightning-cli`, I mean the output of the `lightningd` process.  
> **username_0**: Finally I got what you needed. Here is the log: http://snippi.com/s/3jb5hy2  

---

