What is wrong in it, if the same kind of reservtion existed in all the institutions already then why IIT's and Medical College need to be so special. The same argument which support even in each Government job similar kind of reservation then why not in case of these institutions??
Only because of the reason that some money maker do nto want to help poors, because Media want to suplish and promote only peopel with money. Planned protests from the people, who to harrase and demoralize talented boys from the lower communities. About each selection board, you will hear similar stories.
Do you really think that each OBC boy is able to put 50 thousand for only coachings to somehow making into the medical so that his/her rich father could give him/her money to stand a new brand new clinic. Who is talented, people from lower communities who clear the competative exams in once or those who took more than 3 turns to somehow making it and everyone knows, they supresses actual talented guys by their resources in the colleges, sometime by ranging and sometime by any other means.
These so called talented boys complete their degrees with Cigrates, flirting and movies and finally when it come to placement then again money won. Now what else you need, each private college is asking for money and why should IIT's and Medical College should not provide the same level of chance. If you have to took the reservation out then put a way like IIT have done that no one could competite more than once for the same exams then we will see who is talented and who is not.
Your talent is bought talent, which is artificial and we people from lower communities are naturally talented and even without resources are better than most of you. Do you need the list of people, who comprises of 70% software industry????
Reservation if has some good things then it has also the bad aspects. The one and most dangerous is the tendency of Reserved Candidates thinking and attitude. Which will harm our society in a long term. The reservation when was applied the it was neccessary and as well as needed too but now i this modern era one should think about general candidates too who do not have enough money to suvive and do not have enough resources. I think in place of reservation there shuould be enough resources for the candidates.
IIT's and IIM's are the quality institutes in the country, which are known in india as well as abroad to produce quality professionals. So the first thing, the reservation in these institutes will degrade the quality produced by them. so the reservation protest is in existence. same argument goes for medical institutes also. Actually the reservation cirteria is a BIG MISTAKE by Indian government which needs to be re-structured. The reservarion shall only be limited till the fee of the form or the fee of the institute, so as to facilitate poors to be able to give the exams of such colleges, and after getting into them able to complete their studies successfully. Rest the criteria for reserving seats is a political drama to gain more votes. Why reserve seats and give special treatment to some. If the person is able enough to crack IIT and IIM he will do, even if there is no reservation ( for seats ) in the institutes.
So, buddies no to reservation, as far as the criteria for selection ( the merit marks ) or seats is concerned. If we want to help poors, there can be a low fee for the forms of the entrance, and subsequently, low fee for them or if the person is brilliant enough he can get scholarships also.
there is so much for poors, then Y NEED RESERVATION ?
But only for going through the whole matter and trying to give me the answers. But I want to raise one question, why not you have talked about the facilities, Coaching institutions, Guides, Guess papers and paper leakage issues. Do any teacher want to took care of economically poor students? Yes!! if one is able to crack into IIM's and IIT's then he do not need the reservations, but really are the examinations are being organized in fair manners?
There are specialist teachers who are making the exams like they are not search of raw talent but like these are how systematically and perfectly one chooses the individual subject teachers. In kanpur, the biggies claim to give arround 1000 selection from only one city and similar case about Kota and New Delhi (FITJEE and Brillient Tutorials) and do you know how much it costs for one student to move in to that (Note that I am talking about IIT's only not Medical and MBA)?
After service charges, teacher are expecting to get more than 15000 per students for only one course and also it took 1000/- per month for the room rent to stay in these city and similar for fooding and others, do you think that you have kept the things so simple for poors?? Could you say that you have left the competition so fair that one even best talented guy could crack the examination exactly according to his/her talent?
When the higher class is taking even talent search examinations so professionally that no boy from a middle class family or from a villege school could think of getting into IIT or IIM, then why not to seek for reservation even in IIT's, IIM's and Medical Colleges?
I hope you will come up with a suitable answer.
As about the blog owner, I have read Nitish's other article and want to praise his ways and expeting that he will too write on this matter more as I know he will sure be honest on the issue. As about my introduction then I will sure give that to you but this time the debate is more important.
I am really impressed. The best start for a debate should come from the opposition. I liked your writing style although it is very very much similar to that of mine.
Anyway, thanks for your appreciations and also want to thank you for making this debate moving in well mannered and in the same way, as I thought. Although I am curious to ask about you, but I could understand your side, so not asking for that. The debate is the first concern for us.
But dude, I want to enlighten one more thing that why you people are trying to relate economically poor section to the caste? This is the main problem. The activists of this movement are not claiming that only they are talented and people from the OBC's or SC's are not, but in fact, many people are trying to pose them in that way for their profits. Media and Leaders are deliberately trying to raise questions and posing it like a movement of General students towards OBC's and they are getting their benefits, although it is not so.
One of my friend asked me that "why I want to make the stirr, if many people and big intelligent leader have thought it as a solution then what is wrong in that? sure something good they have thought about. What is the problem, when somebody want to help poors?" I want to this to all and Don! to you too, it is the matter of quality and we are now being forced to watch helplessly the last unquestioned institutes moving into questions and hatred.
You say that systematic attempts and preparation should not get involved into the entrance examinations of these institutions. I admit that it is not fair but it is not the case of socialism but it is the concern of competition from all over the world, in which we are already lagging as we see that kids from other country started chatting and making websites in their very early age of nine and ten and here when one do it then it seems like a wonder.
It is not the case for OBC's that the fees of Coachings are higher, but the same is for General. In fact, very lesser options for Generals. Leave the poor boys just moved into the competitions right now, even their parents were not able to hold their positions (even if they were economically stronger in some days) because this reservation is spreading like cancer in each and every field. Before promoting one staff, we think that he is from OBC or SC, because if we will promote one General then it will look like racism. I am getting some one sided but it is the truth.
I just wanted to say that people are trying to pose that OBC's are economically poor and socially poor too and Generals are richer ones. Please God sake, till what time, you will stick on the same line, it is more than half a century back. In UP, in almost all the constituencies, parties fear to go with a General Candidates. In whole east india zone, most of General candidate do not even think about getting into Government jobs and think IIT's, IIM's and Medical's like their last options as lesser reservation was here till now, it is like snatching the last pure breath from their hands, why not to stirr, why not to cry, why not to protest, why not to campaign???
Note that nothing is against any community, it is against the compromise on the quality. We are ready, if you limit the attempts to one like IIT's have done, we are agreed, if you raise the standard of examinations, so high that even our teachers could not think that they themselves could make it. We are ready to face every challenge against our talent because for this we could do some hard work and could make the things in favour of us, but when you put such a condition which we could never meet then it is really heart brekening, what could one do with his/her origin from a particular community? Is is crime to be a General candidate?
I was really fearing of this. I know that it is a nightmare to see a Nitish Kumar against you. I have seen your strength in campaigning for Sandeep in Indian Idol and I better know what you could make.
It was a bit disappointing that this time I need to oppose you.
Really, you are talking like a well established and rich person, who has not to actually face the situation. From your side, it looks so easy to talk about quality and competition of World Market. Note that not only Doctors and Engineers but many other professionals are getting much praise all over the world and this is not fair to say that if we will get some more OBC's or some confirmed numberof OBCs, then it will come degradation of quality.
In fact, it is not so that OBCs are going to get some more seats, in fact they are already cracking into General seats, where there is a reservation and where this is not. So, i do not think that a formal reservation system is going to make much difference on general and it is just disgusting to hear this much cry on it.
My dear!! do you all really rhink so that the position of OBCs has became much stronger that it may be compared to General ones, then why most of the big IAS officers, main Interviewers, Military Officers and a lot of Buerocrats are from Generals?
Who is saying that IAS exams and Government Jobs are loosing their charm. In fact, it is inclination of OBCs, who are now more concious about their rights and that's why the situation is showing some positive signs for future. But positive signs do not mean that each and every one got the profit, in fact, it indicates that a section of this society started to get the profits. If we do not think that there is any need to remove the reservation from all the other fields and we accept that they need it then what is special about IIT's and IIM's?
Definately, we need at least for next ten years.
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Welcome man!! definately we all are with you. thanks for joining the protests. I are always with you.
The way in which you have presented your thoughts is very good. hope to see you with the same fire.
I am Alakh from New Delhi, I have passed MBBS one year ago and now trying to set up my clinic.
I could really understand your feeling on seeing lesser number of comment on this article but it does not mean that this is not of that much worth. You have done excellent as usual, really there are somethings which only you could do in your own unique style.
Anyway…. currently nothing to say on the debate but sure will do, if got time.
Take care, bye and keep writing for sure.
I have gone through an article of Pioneer and found many interestinjg facts that should sure concern to Nitish Kumar.
The CII, FICCI, ASSOCHAM, and PHD Chambers of Commerce, represent face of the Indian capitalism. The CII alone has six thousand members, and the PHD, some sixty thousand. But, there are no known Dalit industrialists as members in any of the four industry bodies. There are a host of share brokerage firms, and thousands of market players, in which, there is no kkown Dalit. There are thousands of CEOs, but without any known Dalit amongst them.
There are about 75 Colleges in Delhi, but there is no Dalit principal. There are hundreds of newspapers in India. But none of them are headed by any Dalit. There are hundreds of public schools in India, but not one is owned by a Dalit. There are thousands of actors, directors, producers, and singer. But, in that club, there is just one nationally known Dalit name.
In other words, the children of the Dalit elite compete with the children of capitalists, CEOs, Royals, editors, news channel anchors, professors, actors, directors, and diplomats- keeping in mind that the CBSE system involves the public school system as most States have their own board of examinations.
But where is the much talked about Dalit elite? There are a total of 67000 Dalit/Tribal officers categorised in Group A services. If one were to make an index of affluence between the Dalits and non-Dalits, the difference would be "One to Ten" on a ten point scale.
Also, in less than a hundred thousand Dalit/Tribal elite club, not many Moms would be English speaking. Not many visitors to Dalit homes would be English speaking and highly educated. On the contrary, non-Dalit Moms would often be English speaking, and a sure tutor to their children. Apart from the formally hired tutors, the entire family surrounding is a virtual tutor corridor for non-Dalit children.
So how do we compare performance of the two set of children in school examinations? To the children of the Dalit elite, only Dad is the tutor, and the one hired formally. Rest others in the family and around, are likely to impact negatively the growth and performance of Dalit Children.
Despite all odds, historic and otherwise, and indices of inequalities, the Dalit Gen X has cracked the myth of merit (if examination results are the only criterion of merit) in this years CBSE examination. In doing so, they seem to have invoked great memories of Guru Ravidas who tore away the intelligence level of the Brahmins of Kashi, and Baba Saheb Ambedkar, who had left Gandhiji seeking tumblers of water during the Round Table Conference. Without inheriting any great legacy of modern education, the Dalit/Tribal students in this year's CBSE examinations for Class XII, have made us feel proud of them.
This pass percentage Dalit /Tribal students is at 77.57 and 60.08 per cent respectively as against 80.20 per cent for non-Dalit students. The gap therefore between Dalits/Tribals and non-Dalits is a mere 02.69 and 20.18 percentage points respectively.
Further, 35.15 per cent non-Dalit children passed in first divisions scoring between 60-74 per cent whereas figures for Dalit/Tribal students passing in first division and scoring between 60-74 per cent is at 30.91 and 21.11 per cent respectively. In other words, the gap between Dalit/Tribal students is at 04. 24, and 14.04 percentage points respectively.
What if one were to locate the non-Dalit children in the existing Dalit/Tribal context? Or, what if Dalit/Tribal elite is raised to the existing level of the non-Dalit elite, and compare this years CBSE results, will non-Dalits still feel comfortable with the idea of merit? In just half a century, Dalits have virtually dismantled the barriers which had lasted for three thousand years.
What if Dalit/Tribals occupy one fourth of space in CII, FICCI, ASSOCHAM, the CEO club, film and institutions of culture and knowledge? We can statistically establish that in the scenario as painted above, the Dalit/Tribal children will race. There is a history driven science behind the above hypothesis. Should a Dalit bourgeoisie become a reality, the non-Dalits will turn scornful of the term 'merit'.
Mr. Don!! One question, I was thinking to ask to you, do you really faith in the fact that the reservations should not be banned or just coming here for the sake of arguments. Anyway, Nitish Kumar is again ready to face your arguments.
It is the very very old phenomenon, when you have to shut up the others then in place of talking about logic and justice, talk about facts and figures. You know that half of the public will not speak up over the facts and if someone knowing the facts will try to speak that the some of the facts were the plain wrong, then in high cry, you will be able to supress his voice. The same thing is being used in politics from the years, we have cases running years long.
A party come to say that crime is rising and the whole environment in the state looks unsafe and the other party come with the facts and figures. You are crying that corruption is rising and they will say that see, no new cases are being lodged.
As about, your article, then I have to mention that at least you are honest to say that this article is from pioneer, I want to add up that it was from some Sunday editon and the name of author although I do not know, but the article was by the title "Rise of Gen X Dalit". Anyway, coming to the main point…..
First of all, we are not talking about GEN vs SC/STs, we were talking about OBCs and GEN. How come the point of SC/STs came in between?? I have mentioned that they are getting more than enough facilities at every point, concession for study, concession for jobs, concession for promotion. Just say me one thng that is it right that when then the majority of GEN candidates, after their hard works, are not able to cite one college for their graduation admissions, not because they are not able to but because they are some more than the non-reserved seats and what this situation leads to? Every year new persons seaking for the admission, by adding the persons from the last years and the situation is becomig worse and on the other suide, we see the advertizemet and notices that the seats from SC?ST quota is still ermained unfullfilled, so the people whomever have submitted the form and given the examination or not given the examination may come and claim the seat. After the admissions, when ity come to fees, then I remember my time of graduation, 780/- fees for me and 76/- for a SC candidates. Ok! They are poor, they need it. When it come to scholorships then again, almost no criteria for the SC/STs except their castes and for GEN, you need to have 70%, why? You are giving the reason that your so called Dalits are not getting enouggh facilities, so it is obvious if they are a level down in academic caliber right now and 'most' of the GENs are enough resourceful that they could seak tutions and costly study materials fro raising their IQ and academic level, so they need no protecttion at all, even if the reservation raises to 51% and even then OBCs and SC's are allowed to crack into the number of seats remained. Is it a mental histeria of politician or something else?
My Dear!! all this kind of the arguments, were 50 years back and we have moved many steps from there. A lot of controversies were there on the same concept but we adopted the same. Do you what we have got in the last many years for these so called SC/STs, Dalits, a political vote bank, who do not think in terms of better term of living, better roads, better academic arrangements, better economic growth and powerfull country. But it think only in terms that is there a Ambedkar's statue ni front of his house or not? Whether the candidate, who is campaigning in his panchyat elections is a Dalit or not and even the worst situations, I have faced that one needed to know that whether the candidate fighting for Class Representative's post is Dalit or not and the same in a professional institution. This is the achievement we have got from the reservation from last fifty years. Are you pointig out that Dalits haven't got the politicial rise but not the economical or techncal rise by the reservations? If yes! then should I say something more on it?
First of all, the question of concern was the reservation for OBCs not it is a question of differences between Dalits and GEN as you are trying to pose. My dear we have about 37% of population as OBC in different states and many times the discrimination of OBC or GEN is based on political motives not on the actual position of that cast in that particular state. If there was not so, then I am sure that in some state, the so called GEN classes will qualify for being OBC because of their actual conditions after fifty years of independence. The reservation was for making Dalits risen not for making GENs down from their own positions. All the recent exams including CPMT are confirming that OBCs are self able to get the number of seats, which they are expected to get after the proposed reservation, then what is the need for this demarkation line between OBC and GEN class? They are dividing the youth for ever, so that even on worstest decisions of the government, 70% of youth could not combine their hands.
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