He has, has he Paul?
Once you accept that, you begin to understand the scale of Corbyn's achievement. Even if he hasn't won, he has publicly destroyed the logic of neoliberalism – and forced the ideology of xenophobic nationalist economics into retreat.
Everyone else thinks youngsters were voting for free stuff.
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45 thoughts on "He has, has he Paul?"
Surreptitious Evil June 13, 2017 at 7:03 am
Xenophobic nationalist economics?
What's that? Even the Nats just do "someone else will pay" socialism.
J. B. Sorrell June 13, 2017 at 7:12 am
I have a mental image of Paul Mason in a padded room with only a laptop for company, shouting nonsense to himself and occasionally pausing to commit some of it to Twitter or the pages of the Guardian.
One interesting thing I saw yesterday was that YouGov's polling model (they did correctly predict a hung parliament before they bottled it and changed their mind on the last day) had Tories as having a 60 seat majority before the manifesto release. So it might be similarly fair to say Corbyn swept up votes from middle class urbanites turned off by Mayism.
Corvus Umbranox June 13, 2017 at 7:27 am
Voting for free stuff *twice* in some cases. Son of a friend says Labour were touring the Universities, carefully encouraging students to register home and away (which is entirely legal, because of local elections).
Over to Sue Barker for the "What happened next" round…
Tomsmith June 13, 2017 at 7:43 am
Hard to understand self hatred at this level. The writer is almost insane. Why doesn't he just head off to Venezuela where he could be happy?
Mr Ecks June 13, 2017 at 7:48 am
Because the cunt wants to bring Venezuela here.
Edward Lud June 13, 2017 at 7:56 am
Doesn't Corbyn want to nationalise everything? Isn't that xenophobic?
JuliaM June 13, 2017 at 8:01 am
What Mr Ecks said…
Ben S June 13, 2017 at 8:14 am
Given that neoliberalism often seems to be used as a synonym for globalisation, wouldn't that be the opposite of xenophobic nationalist economics?
Theophrastus June 13, 2017 at 8:27 am
"Even if he hasn't won,"
Correct. Jez didn't win.
"he has publicly destroyed the logic of neoliberalism"
Logic? Perhaps he means 'rationale'? Or something?
OK, so Jez challenged (but obviously, didn't destroy) neoliberalism — ie privatization, fiscal austerity, deregulation, free trade…
" – and forced the ideology of xenophobic nationalist economics into retreat."
Er…but if Jez is against free trade and deregulation, and for nationalisation, then his economics are certainly nationalist and probably xenophobic, too.
Chris Miller June 13, 2017 at 8:56 am
I'm sure significant numbers voted Jezza because "I hate May/Brexit and it's not as though there's any chance that my protest might result in Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott in No 10, No 11 and the Home Office". They won't have that excuse next time.
John Miller June 13, 2017 at 9:12 am
Nationalise, nationalist- they mean different, nay, opposite things?
Glad you cleared that one up, Mason.
Jim June 13, 2017 at 9:24 am
"Son of a friend says Labour were touring the Universities, carefully encouraging students to register home and away (which is entirely legal, because of local elections)."
It did occur to me that there was something fishy about the surge of votes for Labour, and I wouldn't be surprised to discover there was a significant amount of fraud in their favour. There's a lot of students, doubling up a proportion of them would definitely have an effect. I also wondered how many foreign nationals without the right to vote did so.
One of the things the Tories MUST do in the next Parliament as a matter of urgency is tighten up the voter registration laws and voting rules. As far as I can see there's nothing preventing fraud, except people's own sense of morality, and as we know, on the Left thats definitely lacking, particularly with the current lot.
Bloke In Italy June 13, 2017 at 9:33 am
that plus the long overdue boundary changes.
The stupid cow is still in place and sense–like going after election fraud– is beyond her.
I read that she is still planning to go after encryption tho. That could be more clickbait of course but it sounds just like the arrogant bitch.
Bloke in North Dorset June 13, 2017 at 10:01 am
No, because they're international socialists who like everyone, except Americans and Zionists, so they must be good people.
It's only xenophobic if proposed by UKIP or the BNP, because they're right wingers who like Americans and Zionists.
DBC Reed June 13, 2017 at 10:22 am
The moronic Tories consistently vote for unearned untaxed capital gains in inflationary house prices then squeal like stuck pigs when their young victims refuse to pay for the austerity caused by a property market bust like in 2007-2009.
(Quick consult the crib sheet:" the bust of 2007-2009 originating in the American property market and spreading through the banks was really caused by Gordon Brown improving some British schools")
Tel June 13, 2017 at 10:50 am
It needs to be said over and over again: half of UKIP voters went back to voting Labour because they thought Labour was supporting Hard Brexit. That's what Labour's manifesto said. Those voters thought Hard Brexit was a done deal. If they thought that Labour wanted to stay in the Single Market they never would have voted Labour.
The claim that the people have voted for Soft Brexit is a lie. 85% of people voted for parties that explicitly supported Hard Brexit.
Ian Reid June 13, 2017 at 11:00 am
Aren't Labour bribing these people with their parents money.
BraveFart June 13, 2017 at 11:00 am
Just how obviously deranged does a person have to be in order not to be given a forum in the Guardian?
Surely Mason is close to that point?
No, Labour is bribing them with their own money. We're still running deficits, so all this is just being added to the tab, to be paid for by them later on when they're older. Or their children, or their grandchildren, until it goes bust.
Or, in the particular case of getting rid of student fees and debts, it's the middle classes being subsidized by the working classes.
Roué le Jour June 13, 2017 at 11:12 am
If I may go o/t, since May is talking to the DUP, it reminds me there's some rule about mainland parties not being allowed in NI and vice versa. Is that right or am I having a senior moment?
Bloke in Wales June 13, 2017 at 11:21 am
I thought the Conservatives stood candidates in NI. Maybe not this time, but in recent general elections.
abacab June 13, 2017 at 11:21 am
Indeed. The low time-preference of youth (and the impulsive desire for Free Stuff) is being exploited. They'll discover later exactly how all that free stuff was paid for – and that they're paying it back with interest.
Today has defintely revealed that May has to go. Not right away, we need get the ship of the new government sailing first, but then she has to go.
The reason why is that she's now talking about austerity (not that there was any real austerity) having to be axed, despite it being her red Tory manifesto that caused the Tory crash. And today, according to Guido, she has sacked a senior Leaver from the Brexit department and replaced thim with a Remainer. There's also talk that other Leavers are leaving the Brexit department.
jgh June 13, 2017 at 11:23 am
Mainland parties /chose/ not to contest elections in NornIron, though recently there has been a few people standing as Conservative candidates. It's actually an expelling offense to stand there as a Labour candidate. LibDem candidates get branded Alliance as they have an alliance. Green Party of Northern Ireland exists, but I've never seen them stand above local government level. UKIP have stood a handful of candidates. In general, any mainland party candidate crashes out with a lost deposit.
RlJ,
I understood it as an unwritten agreement rather than a convention.
Rob June 13, 2017 at 11:32 am
If students can register in two locations, what is stopping them voting twice, once by post and once in person?
Jimmers June 13, 2017 at 11:33 am
Greens put up 7 candidates this time in NI. My local guy gets some support and is fairly well liked but still a million miles off being elected. Bit like the Conservative party over here.
Mark T June 13, 2017 at 12:02 pm
Reality is that in 2010 Cameron got 307 seats and went into coalition with the LibDems that had the student vote. When Clegg stuffed that they abandoned the Lib Dems in 2015, but the two referendum parties – UKIP and SNP – took almost 6m votes from the main parties – more from labour and Lib Dems than Cons. This time round, referendum parties faded (job done) and more went back to Labour than Con. Bottom line, Con have 11 more seats than 2010 and Labour have 4 more. British politics has reached the stage of permanent coalition.
John P June 13, 2017 at 12:11 pm
DBC Reed
The bust of 2007-2008 was essentially caused by central banking which is a socialist institution
https://mises.org/library/speaking-truth-monetary-power
https://mises.org/library/misesian-century
https://mises.org/library/money-its-importance-origins-and-operations
https://mises.org/library/how-business-cycle-happens
abacab June 13, 2017 at 12:54 pm
heh. And McDonnell is going to celebrate the better-than-expected loss with a campaign promoting the interests of a totalitarian régime.
https://order-order.com/2017/06/13/mcdonnell-celebrate-election-castro-cuba-solidarity-party/
Couldn't make it up.
Mr Ecks June 13, 2017 at 12:54 pm
Tel–sucking up to the left is the kind of stupidity you would expect although Gove is already speaking against it. Suck up to try and buy the votes of those who won't vote for you anyway.
This Barwell cunt needs to be gone in a manner akin to the murder of David Rizzio bum chum favourite of Mary Queen of Scots ( or Queen of Slags as in May's case).
Is the feared 1922 Committee not even capable of getting rid of a stooge and loser like Barwell?
It is worrying what the tory grandees are now letting the dozy, arrogant bitch get away with after she already got them into a fight in which their collective nose was broken even tho' they avoided a knockdown.
And Theo dares to say UKIP are a rabble.
The Meissen Bison June 13, 2017 at 12:56 pm
DNR Reed turns his back on his tribe (the moronic) in favour of supporting a demographic he zimmered away from decades ago!
Clarissa June 13, 2017 at 1:31 pm
The first time I was able to vote was in '97 and I was in halls at the time. I was registered at home but had also been registered locally by hall so there was nothing to stop me voting twice if I so chose since my mother held my proxy. I didn't (if only because I have some morals) but if I had I couldn't have been stopped from doing so simply by having to present ID at the polling station.
Roué le Jour June 13, 2017 at 1:37 pm
Corvus Umbranox June 13, 2017 at 1:45 pm
It's illegal with a fine of up to £5000.
However as all controls are at local level, chances of getting caught are as close to zero as makes no difference.
Still, I'm sure all the students were honest and this is definitely not what Labour were hinting at. No sirree.
Rob June 13, 2017 at 2:21 pm
And very hard to prove. The postal bit is easy, but how to prove they turned up in person at the other location? You don't need your polling card and can retain it anyway. They just cross your name out on a sheet of paper. Could be anyone pretending to be Joe Bloggs the student.
This would be a criminal standard of proof required, so I doubt that any prosecution would get off the ground.
Bloke in Wiltshire June 13, 2017 at 2:33 pm
Mason really is an irritating cunt, isn't he?
I mean, I disagree with Owen Jones, he gets a lot wrong, but he never quite enters the bellend zone that Mason live in.
Jim June 13, 2017 at 5:45 pm
Didn't Charles Moore commit electoral fraud to prove how easy it was? Register at his home plus another address (possibly a London flat) and then hop on a train on the voting day and vote twice? I think he spoilt one of the ballot papers so it couldn't have any practical effect. But there were no practical barriers to it being done, virtually undetectable too.
Edit: it was in the EU referendum:
https://www.rt.com/uk/356517-journalist-eu-vote-fraud/
Theophrastus June 13, 2017 at 5:52 pm
Ecksy
May is stupid and vacuous, and I've been saying that since before she became PM. Damian Green is even worse than she is, and I suspect he's calling the shots now.
But the stupidity of the left wing of the Tory party doesn't make them or the whole party a rabble, which UKIP sans Farage undoubtedly is.
Insurgent, populist parties lack traditions, heritage and a culture and so lack a stable core to counteract centrifugal forces. The Labour and Conservative parties have these in abundance, which is why they will be a long time dying. Under a political genius, UKIP thrived and changed the political landscape. Without him, it's now just a bunch of squabbling eccentrics.
If I was an investigative journalist, I'd be looking at students voting twice, care home 'helpers', religious coercion, head of the family issues, multiple registrations at single addresses and postal/proxy voting in general. In accumulation there's got to be a massive story there.
BobRocket June 13, 2017 at 7:25 pm
Corvus Umbranox,
'If I was an investigative journalist…'
I'd ask the postman, he/she knows which addresses got far more postal voting forms than normal/election post.
Pcar June 13, 2017 at 8:16 pm
@Roué le Jour, June 13, 2017 at 11:12 am
@Bloke in Wales, June 13, 2017 at 11:21 am
BiW is correct. UK "Conservative and Unionist Party" members do stand occasionally, but all it does is split vote.
Conservatives and Ulster Unionists (UU) & Democratic Unionists (DUP) have a long history of shared values.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4597904/Labour-accused-hypocrisy-criticising-talks-DU.html
@Mr Ecks, June 13, 2017 at 12:54 pm
Agree. I (and my mother, brother, blah..) have never understood the idiocy of Cameron et al pandering to PC brigade, greens, gays, RoPs, etc when they will never vote Conservative. It alienates their core voters who often decide not to vote.
Cameron's lackey:
Warsi: There is "no point" putting Muslims in Britain under scrutiny after three terror attacks in three months, according to Baroness Sayeeda Warsi, who argued the UK should include Islamophobia in its definition of "extremism".
Islamophobia is extremism? Is she insane?
Islamaphobia: Phobia – irrational fear. Fear of muslims – rational fear.
Theo– All very nice but if the stupid bitch keeps on making mistakes the nation will be reduced to a bunch of starving eccentrics after a Corbin victory.
I don't think he can win.
But I am fucking sure that stupid cow can lose.
It might look bad to bin her right now. But why isn't the brainless arrogant slag suffocating on a lead tighter than her arse? They should have blacked both the stupid cows eyes not allowed her be picking remainiac heavy reshuffles of even more fuckwit public school bunglers.