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The National Football League
Trent Williams LT Available
Thread starter mussop
Brisco_County
Texans worthy
redskins said:
redskins fan. I came here because your team gets mentioned a lot by washington dc area beat writers as a potential trade partner. So, my thoughts from redskins perspective:
1. If I were you, I'd go with the guys you have. You drafted them for a reason, they are young, they are on rookie contracts, go with them.
2. If you really wanted Trent Williams, the price is a 1st round pick, minimum. Not a 2nd. a 2nd won't get it done. they are perfectly intent in having williams sit and not play at all before they get their asking price for a premium player at a premium position, the 3rd(?) most important position in Pro Football, Left Tackle.
3. Is Trent really that good? Yes, he's one of the best ever linemen in Washington, is still in his prime, had maybe his best season last year, and needs just a couple of more years (2-3) to solidify Hall of Fame status. you would see a MAJOR increase in your overall offense with him in your lineup. point blank, your QB is not getting touched *Whatsoever* by anyone rushing his blind side. Williams gives up maybe a sack or two a YEAR. Not a game. A YEAR.
4. If I were Washington, I would consider a 2nd round pick plus a young, talented player on your team who is on his rookie contact. an offensive lineman, a WR, a CB are positions of interest. Must be young and must be on rookie contract. No other player would be considered. And that's PLUS the 2nd rounder.
5. Washington has zero interest whatsoever in Jadeveon Clowney, they have no place to play him and don't want that salary either. So forget mentioning him, Washington has zero interest in him.
If I were the Texans, let your rookies play. It worked for Indy last year, major improvement on their line.
Thanks for the well thought contribution.
A key reason to get Richardson is we can't take anymore gambles with Watson's health. This franchise has already ruined one promising QB by not protecting him. Watson is in a different universe from that guy as far as talent. The problem of exposing Watson needed to end a year ago.
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Practice Squad
justmy2cents said:
In the last few days, I've searched out, read and listened to as many local talking heads as I could .... to determine if Redskins really did turn down a 1st rd pick for Williams. While searching. I've found that the vast majority, would not entertain the notion of trading Clowney for Williams. Age discrepancy, and draft selection point are two of the more common points. To me, that's far to little and menial to be concerned over. Each player is unhappy where he is. They're both excellent players and would be a value, if happy and healthy, where they are. As I see it, we have 2 compelling reasons to consider .... 1) the health of DW4 .... 2) the obvious reluctance of O'Brien to invest top draft picks on offensive linemen. I say swap 'em. The fear of making a mistake, causes many to freeze .... not good .... see our most recent draft !
i was just writing to someone else on this board, so I'll write to you too. as a redskins fan who knows washington's situation as good as anyone can, they just have no need or interest whatsoever in Clowney. all 4 edge positions (two DE's and two OLBs) are staffed with either their best players on their roster or the most potentional (1st round pick this starting at R OLB). washington will want a pick 1st round, or perhaps a 2nd plus a young player with talent who is on a rookie contract. otherwise, they will let williams sit. washington knows they are going to suck with or without williams. i'd like to trade him, for sure, as a fan, since he doesnt want to play again, but of course it has to be the best deal for washington they can get otherwise their happy with him not playing at all.
Brisco_County said:
ok then you and I can play GMs for our respective teams. If you're willing to trade your 1st, I'd probably do it. If you don't want to trade your first, then you can make me an offer but please don't mention Clowney, like I said, washington will not have any interest in him. i understand protecting your QBs health. With Williams, he's a veteran, 31. He's had some injuries here and there, he has been popped a few times for failing drug tests - these would be my concerns if i were you. on the field, there should be NO concern. I'm telling you, Houston has never seen a blind side pass protector (and run blocker) like Trent. Arguably the best in the game.
The only way I see it working is through a three way trade. I don't see our GMless franchise possessing the savvy to pull that off, but if it were to work, we'd have to understand Washington's needs and work off that.
thunderkyss
It's good to be me... again.
We're not the Colts.
I hope we don't trade for Trent Williams, our couch would try him at FB for a few games before determining he's not going to make it as a longsnapper.
How does he look in overalls?
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NastyNate
I go kerplunk
yeah, as a former college football fan of penn state, i know all about bill o'brien. and I know a lot of you guys are tired of him and his dimple chin. i'm surprised he's lasted there this long.
having watched every snap of every game trent williams has ever played, what i'll say about him is that he's not a discontent. he's a really good dude actually. his pot smoking was mostly in his first year or 2 in the league, although he had one relapse a year or two ago. but other than his love of ganja, he really is a model employee. honestly. as a player, he's about as good as it gets at LT and will make any team's offensive line infinitely better. he's not average, he's not mediocre, he's not declining, he's not just 'good', he is phenominal, a generational talent at one of the game's most important positions and i say that about no redskins usually. washington will suck with him or without him, so they might as well be without him at this point.
But Clowney unfortunately has no value whatsoever to washington. washington is a 3-4.
* their LE is Iannodois who they just resigned this offseason. he has 13 sacks in his last 19 games. as a 3-4 linemen. he's obviously entrenched as a starter.
* their RE is Jonathan Allen, their 1st round pick 2 years ago, and a team leader who is the guy who gets all the double teams up front. He might be their best overally young player right now.
* Their LOLB is Ryan Kerrigan, who has 2 years remaining on his deal, gets paid 14 mill a year and is a good player for them. Their not going to bring in CLowney and bench Kerrigan and have 30 million tied up at LOLB. Not gonna happen, obviously.
* And their ROLB is this years 1st rounder, Montez Sweat. they have an excellent backup at OLB too. So there just isnt a need or a desire whatsoever for Clowney in Washington.
Looks like no deal for washington-houston then.
Doesn't matter, Washington doesn't have the future cap space to take him on regardless of their current talent. Even with that said no one is giving up a first for Williams. He waited until well after the draft with few teams being able to fit him on their roster. He's past his prime but still solid. Documented injury history, contract size, and age all negate that. He might get something like a 2nd and a 5th on the best trade day. Washington knows it. Snyder knows it. That's why literally no team has traded for him, all the red flags.
NastyNate said:
What are his prime yrs?
I've always thought between ages 27-32 are the prime yrs but OT's can play well until at least 35.
2017 he ended up on IR and couldn't practice the entire year after the first game of the season because of a thigh injury. Missed a full month in 2018. Nicked up in 2016. I'd say the age and injuries are starting to add up. He is still a top talent. But he's on the wrong side of 30. He commands a price but I don't think it's a high first round pick.
Offer a 2nd and 3rd or 4th for Williams. If the Skins don't bite, offer a 1st. Then shop Clowney for a first, if no takers try to get a 2nd and an average-above average starter. Boom. Done. Hire me as GM...
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He should have atleast a couple of very good yrs.
Although he's missed some time there doesn't appear to be serious injuries.
People here over value draft picks. Look at the Texans draft history and if Williams is brought in the pick should be in the 25-32 range. If you dont do something Watson wont make it thru the season.
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KA4Texan
Weirdo Mode Engaged
I love draft picks but as I see it, you have to have someone that is capable of using them to GET a value at the pick. I dont trust the current brain trust.
I say kiss draft picks good bye:
1) Williams is an instant drastic upgrade to a position of desperate need. While a pick is a crapshoot.
2) Williams is a vet and we just drafted "The future OLine"this past draft. They have to learn from someone.
3) Williams skill level could not only drastically improve the play in the rookies on the line, but will ALSO help to boost Watsons play if he doesnt have to worry so much about the hit coming from having a weak LT
Or... we get to keep our picks and highly likely waste them.
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Doesn't matter, Washington doesn't have the future cap space to take him on regardless of their current talent.
this is correct. I didn't get into Clowney's salary req's because it's not neccessary to even discuss. the redskins would have no interest in the player. Beyond not wanting him, they wouldn't and couldn't take on his salary either.
Even with that said no one is giving up a first for Williams.
you might be right. we'll see. NE reportedly already offered a first. these reports are being challenged by some. others have said it occurred. either way, we'll see. and if no one gives up a first, I don't see Williams playing anywhere, at least not in 2019.
He waited until well after the draft with few teams being able to fit him on their roster.
true. if a team is desperate, that becomes the play for washington. but that might not happen.
He's past his prime but still solid.
Again, correct. Actually, partially correct, imo. he's not in his prime anymore. He's way above "solid" however. Solid is a generic adjective you can apply to many players in the NFL. Trent Williams is not like many players in the NFL. to describe him as "solid" is to put him in a category with a lot of people, like some ok guard or something, and that would be an insult and a real misread of who Trent Williams is. This happens when people judge players on teams that they never really see. It would be me saying ehh you know that JJ Watt guy, he's over 30, i know he's good but he aint worth a first and he's just solid now and not in his prime anymore, blah blah. That would be coming from someone who doesnt see JJ Watt play every snap like a Texan fan does. I see every snap in Washington. I will assure you Trent Williams's play (just talking about his play here), is way, wayyyyyy beyond your "solid" descriptor. He's might be the best in football or definately close to it, today, not 5 years ago, but right now, at the game's most important position other than QB or edge rusher. He's still one of the 2 or 3 best offensive tackles in the sport. he will make an entire offensive line better just with his presense. and your QB wont be touched with Williams in the lineup ALL YEAR. "solid" can be used to describe a jag. he's far beyond jag.
Documented injury history, contract size, and age all negate that.
can't disagree with any of that.
He might get something like a 2nd and a 5th on the best trade day. Washington knows it. Snyder knows it. That's why literally no team has traded for him, all the red flags.
I agree with almost everything you said. Not here. Washington has had zero interest in trading the guy until about a couple of days ago. they will either get what they want or they will turn down any offer, including, reportedly, one already from NE, and have the player sit. They have suitors for Williams. Because, again, Williams' play, when he's in the lineup, is 1st team Pro Bowl level, beyond "solid".
https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/whats-trade-compensation-trent-wiiliams-one-expert-says-way-more-1st-round-pick
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Welcome to the board. I'll give you our second round Plus 2021 third round. I don't think any of players your GM wants would be approved by Obrien.
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badboy said:
thanks. Hmmm, what about a 2020 2nd (btw, washington does not have a 2nd round pick next year currently) and a 2021 2nd
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Just curious, what would it take to get Trent Williams, Scherf, and 5th rounder Piersbacher?
you throw in Piersbacher and we swap 2021 second round picks?
haha funny. washington sucks so bad (we're probably winning maybe 3 or 4 games this year), you can have 'em all. it's a fire sale as far as I'm concerned.
nah, i need 2 second rounders, outright. 2020 and 2021. and what the hell is your love for piersbacher? He's a rookie backup on a shitty OL. i'll give you him as throw in for the 2 second rounders
Give me Piersbacher and you get the two seconds. I follow Alabama closely and he could start on your line or mine before year over. Don't tell your coach, lol. He also would be a higher ceiling RG than our current guys except Fuller. Give you our 2020 second and third and 2021 second for your three players and agree your record. Check my thread college forum on my off season trades and free agency..19,000 views since March. With our two picks this next draft plus your top 6 first you can add quite a bit your team. You could get WR Jerry Judy (I'm working deal with Raiders for Clowney so I can select him). Our second will get you a good LT to replace your 37 year old Penn and the two thirds get you a CB and OG to replace Scherff. Hint, Timon Paris needs some work on your right side with first team. He could be better than you might think.
xtruroyaltyx
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xtruroyaltyx said:
Yep, if only there was a random trade thread. Since there isn't, I would trade Clowney to either Buffalo or Miami for a 1st and a 3rd or 4th. Then I would trade either my 1st or Buffalo's 1st, (Whichever one I thought would be the lowest) to Washington for Williams.
You might also be able to trade Clowney and a 4th to Miami for Tunsil. Is this an overpay? Yes, but after yrs of crap LT play this trade would fix this.
maverick512000
All these trade ideas are amazing and I have no idea why the Texans dont just call up these other teams and make it happen. In fact why doesn't Cal just call up Kraft and tell him we're trading teams from the HC down. That way BB can be in warmer weather as he gets older and no matter what BoB does it will be the NE way since he will be the NE HC. It will be great.
Huh, what do you mean the other teams have to agree? What do you mean they may not value players the way we do? That can't possibly be right.
Trades take two to make happen and if the other person isn't willing to deal or demands what you consider to high a price or to low a price they don't happen. People talk about "they should trade X for Y" as though it's some great revelation that no one else ever thought of when more likely it's that someone, somewhere doesn't think it's a good deal.
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Mr teX
That's kinda my thing... we could do exactly what you're saying land Tunsil or Williams via a trade that would fortify our line for at least the next 3-7 years and some on here would still poo poo it b/c the "value" wasn't what they thought it should be....& b/c it was BoB who made the trade.
disaacks3
The Texans need to recognize at some point that we either keep Watson upright, or we're done. That was only exacerbated by Miller going down and the unknown status of Duke Johnson. If we weren't a pass-first team before Saturday night, we sure as hell are now.
The two 2nds (2020 and 2021) while expensive, sounds about right for Williams. As shown, Clowney would have no part in this deal, unless he was part of an elaborate three-way trade that the GM-less Texans are likely incapable of.
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Mr teX said:
Never mind that Tunsil or Williams play would be as substandard as every other lineman coached by Devlin & BO'b...
Nevermind he'll probably put them at Center so he's not wrong on Kalil.
I'd love to have Tunsil/Williams but you act like every thing BO'b has done has worked out for the better for the team & it's been quite the opposite. The only thing we have going for us is Hop & Watson, & Jj.... & BO'b has had little to do with them
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thunderkyss said:
So everything that's wrong with the team is BOB's fault. Anything that goes right he has nothing to do with? Do you realize how stupid this sounds?
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maverick512000 said:
It's not impossible to make trades.
See: The Mack trade just before the start of last season.
frethack
Devlin is terrible, and BOB is terrible for not knowing.
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FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Sooo... kinda like how every draft pick that sucked was an RS pick and every pick that didn't suck was BoB, or Wade, or RAC... yeah I guess it does sound pretty stupid.
Or, how about every game we win is because of the awesome defense and RAC, but every time we lose it is the horrible offense.
Very stupid indeed.
edited because I shouldn't post first thing in the morning
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FuzzyLogic said:
Or, how about every game we win is because of the awesome defense and RAC, but everytime we lose it is the horrible defense.
The gm was making the picks, look at the picture of the warroom when Watson was picked. I gave RS credit for that pick. RS ran the draft.
Wade came on with the understanding the 1st round pick would be made on the player of his choice if he would take the GM job.
Please show me were I said it was impossible to make trades. Hell the Texans traded for Johnson which is why Miller going down isn't as horrible as it would have been a month ago team wise. My point is people keep making posts like "They need to just trade our first for Williams" or "Offer Clowney to team X for their first next year and use that to get player Y" or even "Texans are so stupid why haven't they traded Clowney yet" which is then followed by "Can't believe they are going to trade him away for so low, they can get at least a 2nd out of him." The NFL is a buyers market because no matter how valuable a player is to your team that doesn't mean he has equal value to another team. The draft is a great example of this, a player that is a day one starter for team X may have simply been drafted for depth for team Y.
I just pointed out trades have been made in the past and that supposedly Clowney/Williams are available.
Carr Bombed
Deshaun Watson will end up like Andrew Luck if we don't fix the line and if he doesn't learn how to get rid of the ball.
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You tell me when was the last FA, trade, whatever that worked out for the team?
I'm just stating facts & they sound as stupid as you've been saying they do.
Osweiller to the Browns?
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B/c for the most part........it has. You guys would never admit to it though. You guys work these things out in a vacuum & with heavy hindsight. So allow me to use some in what is considered his biggest blunder according to you guys.
Say what you will about the Fitz, Hoyer, Mallet, Savage & the Oz debacles ( ), over the years, it has slowly born out that literally no qb that we could've taken in the draft all those years has been worth a flip & have performed any better than those guys. This includes the guys taken at the tops of the draft back in 2015-16. Then, when we finally took 1, we hit pay dirt with Watson. Ok so you say..."but then he decides to start savage over watson...stupid"...He did...................... & then immediately benched Savage literally 1/2 of football into the season & the rest is history...so really when you look at it, no harm no foul. It should also be noted that in the years of the qb fiasco there have been 2 playoff appearances with 2 of those guys.
Outside of Duane Brown & Brooks, Devlin hasn't really had a talent like Williams or Tunsil to work with. I also recall those guys playing exactly where they were supposed to be playing when they did play for us So i know your statement was tongue in cheek, but there's no reason to believe that BoB/Devlin would make those guys play anywhere other than where they've been playing...b/c they have proven they can play there. Alot of the shuffling right now has to do with finding out where some of these young guys CAN play.
Getting rid of AJ was blasphemy around here..."He can still produce at a high level....BoB just ran him off cause he didn't like him, his system can't do this etc..etc.."..Well guess what happens 2 years after we released AJ? Retirement. Guess the entire league just doesn't like AJ now.. Even funnier, guess what happens 2 years after that? AJ on the coaching staff lol.
Same situation with Case....yep, he released him...twice. & even after taking a team to the NFCCG, other teams have still continued to release him...& even after this latest stint in Washington where he has been named starter......he will be demoted and/or released again next year lol. But somehow, BoB is villified on here by some for doing what these other teams have done.
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Did that work out.. we had to piss away a second round pick to dump him when they simply could've cut him and ate the contract.. They didn't spend the money elsewhere.
but you act like every thing BO'b has done has worked out for the better for the team
B/c for the most part........it has.
Oh... so I guess this is not the Clusterfck steelbtexan keeps saying it is. Ok. I'm just agreeing with him.
Everything Devlin touches turns to crap.
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This passive org doesn't make trades an is cheapass in fa. You will get no argument from me.
Carr Bombed said:
At the very least it was a draw for us considering that we took a chance on getting a franchise qb (something everyone wanted in 1 form or another at the time), he sucked, but we still got to the playoffs that year...& won a game albeit against a terrible qb. We then had to unload a couple of draft picks to dump him, but we did get a 4th round compensatory for him which i believe turned out to be Carlos Watkins....a nice good contributor to our teams now.
Of course they didn't spend $$$$ elsewhere. The Texans don't spend $$$$. They do have a long history of pissing away draft picks though.
Steelb is operating from a zero sum standpoint where basically his argument can only be refuted if the team goes wild spending money & doesn't win a championship. Any other scenario where the texans fall short of a championship he can always fall back on his argument. Used to annoy me, now i just . The board wouldn't be the same without him and his agenda at this point for me.
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I'm still not convinced that wasn't part of a larger trade that resulted in us getting Watson. We trade with the Browns who seem to have no interest whatsoever in Osweiler and just run him through a few laps in training camp but they are hording draft picks likes its the one ring and they are Gollum. Then comes draft day we have to move up to get a QB and we know that there are at least two others as desperate, actually more so since the Bears traded the farm to move up one spot and grab the QB that has, arguably, the worst production of the three. Out of all the various teams we could make a deal with who do we call up, the Browns and not only that but, for a guy who could be a franchise QB and dealing with a team that wants as many picks as they can get, they actually give us a pretty good deal on the trade up.
So yeah I think the Osweiler trade was the ground work for the Watson trade. Do I have any proof of this, not at all its just what makes sense to me.
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All these trade ideas are amazing and I have no idea why the Texans dont just call up these other teams and make it happen.
Because nothing can happen until Clowney signs his franchise tender.
Number19 said:
Didn't read the rest of the post did you.
Seth Payne was exposing his bias towards the player this morning talking about this...basically saying Clowney's not signing the franchise tag tender b/c he knows BoB's trying to trade him & its disingenious of BoB to say exactly what you're saying.....Lol, No Seth, literally nothing can happen whether it be trade, or whatever until Clowney signs his tender & gets under contract.
No where in the post I responded to was it mentioned that Clowney has to first sign his franchise tender before any trade can be made.
Rumors are there well may be trades being discussed; just waiting on Clowney before going forward.