Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary
borjastick
Postby borjastick » 7 years 1 month ago (Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:34 am)
Well it arrived on our screens last night, lasted a whopping 90 minutes and went into the cold night air. It made some huge claims, some massive assumptions along the way and some disastrous illogical steps.
Here's my summary made from my notes as I watched.
She and her team were there not to prove any of the claims that 800,000 + people were murdered, that seems to have been accepted, but to find mass graves and the gas chambers. She was described as a forensic archeologist who works with Police forces in the UK.
She and her team needed permission to dig in the 'death camp' from the chief Rabbi of Poland. Before that was given she had to wait and chose to use that time to do some investigations and digging in Treblinka 1 the so called 'penal colony' which had up to 50,000 inmates at its peak. No claim that camp 1 was a death camp or that mass murder took place there were made.
They started digging small trenches little more than a metre square in locations that were identified from flying above and using a new high tech system which is a radar photo mapping type called something like Lydar. It effectively removes the vegetation from the image and shows only the ground and thus reveals disturbances and changes.
Once the locations for digging were chosen it would make sense to have used GPR to gain more data before digging. GPR was not used.
In trench 1 they found very little but in another trench close by they found remains of a shoe, one tibia bone and a child's jaw bone. CSC then got emotional and tearful declaring that it must have been terrible for these people. In other words these bones mean the person or people were killed. No evidence to support this theory was presented. It could equally have been a grave for people who had died from disease or any illness.
They then opened another trench and began to dig. After five hours they had unearthed 40 bones. She then declares the digging must stop saying 'Stop, the more we dig the more we find. We have proved this is a mass grave'.
The team then leave Treblinka 1 and meet the chief Rabbi of Poland who bizarrely is an American, who gives her leave to dig under certain conditions. These were few but included 'If you find a mass grave you must stop'.
They identify locations by the same airborne method and start digging by hand. The first trench reveals mostly sand and shells from an earlier age. Another trench is started and within about two feet of the surface they find terracotta floor tiles which have the star of David pressed into them. These are declared similar to those claimed to have been on the gas chamber floor by witnesses to the event. A little deeper they find a couple of bricks or blocks.
This is when the whole forensic and archeological credibility goes out the window. CSC then announces the following; 'We've identified the location of the gas chambers'.
With no evidence but some blocks and a few tiles, zero proof that it could be a gas chamber and not another building the whole things is 'proven'. Staggeringly shoddy and never up to any norms on proof.
This charade lasted 90 minutes and could have been condensed into 30 minutes without losing anything at all. The rest of the time was filled with various travelogues to Warsaw, Majdanek and images that were unrelated. Claims were made that every train at Treblinka had up to 10,000 people on board and that they were all exterminated within 15 minutes of arrival.
They avoided all topics of revisionism like it being a transit camp, they trotted out that all gassings were by carbon monoxide produced from engines attached to the gas chamber blocks.
CSC should be applauded for producing one of the best pieces of work in support of the revisionist position. How this shoddy piece got 90 minutes of airtime on a major UK tv station is beyond me.
Last edited by borjastick on Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'
'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician
Re: The Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka documentary
Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 1 month ago (Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:52 am)
Great analysis, borjastick. i can't bring myself to watch this stuff for fear I'll start fuming like a Bournemouth colonel.
How this shoddy piece got 90 minutes of airtime on a major UK tv station is beyond me.
it's not supposed to work on a rational level. Did it work as emotional manipulation? For most folk who take the story for granted and never see it questioned, it probably did.
Like the "if you find a mass grave you've got to stop". Somewhat circular since if you stop, you'll never know if it was a mass grave.
I wonder if the police would stop a murder investigation because a leader of some obscure cult said, "You can't dig there".
Big problem is it's shoddy rubbish you can demolish in 5 minutes, but you won't get the chance to.
EtienneSC
Postby EtienneSC » 7 years 1 month ago (Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:19 am)
Hi Borjastick,
I have one exception to what you say. When you write:
"they find terracotta floor tiles which have the star of David pressed into them. These are declared similar to those claimed to have been on the gas chamber floor by witnesses to the event."
My recollection is that the Star of David was said by CSC to be on the outside of the building to create a sense of familiarity rather there being witness claims that it was on the floor. I'm not aware of eye-witnesses who go into that amount of detail about the floor.
As I understand, strictly speaking a Star of David is composed of two triangles and doesn't have a dot in the middle - but nothing depends on that.
Re: Caroline Sturdy Colls Treblinka TV documentary
Hi EtienneSC
CSC did indeed talk of a star of David on the outside of the 'shower' block but prior to that she made mention of one of the witnesses creeping up to a window, looking in and referencing red terracotta type floor tiles. The tiles they found were very odd as the star of David was on the underside of the tiles and did, as you say, have a dot in the middle. One wonders why any tiles used there in any building would have such a logo in them. Perhaps there is reference elsewhere to tiles made by a jewish company, or even made in one of the camps.
Postby hermod » 7 years 1 month ago (Thu Nov 28, 2013 7:56 am)
So a few human remains found 1.5 kilometer from an alleged "extermination camp" prove about 900,000 people were gassed in the latter?
Are we supposed to believe the Nazis transported 900,000 dead bodies from Treblinka II (alleged "extermination camp") to Treblinka I (labor camp)? According to the 'eye witnesses' and the maps they've drawn, the mass graves were located right next to the 'gas chambers'. Are we supposed to believe nobody died from diseases or any other non-genocidal cause while working in the gravel pits of Treblinka I?
I've noticed something odd. I've found the floor tile with the Star of David on it incredibly clean for a tile that had supposedly spent 70 years underground. Not even mud in the engravings of the tile! Maybe I'm paranoid, but the political and financial interests at stake are so huge, I can easily imagine a member of Sturdy Colls' staff putting a fake tile on the site during the excavation. Holo-lobbyists didn't hesitate to plant Jivaro shrunken heads and human artifacts (probably collected in an Institute of Anatomy) on a table at Buchenwald in order to 'prove' the "Nazi barbarity". So why wouldn't they plant a fake Holo-tile on an archeological site decades later? What's your opinion about that? The conclusion of that film was foregone. Caroline Sturdy Colls just couldn't say she hadn't found the 'gas chamber'. She had to find something.
I've also found it weird that there was no rabbi present when they reburied the human remains they had just found at Treblinka I.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans." – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915
Hi hermod,
They did talk of the burning pits being, I think, 50m x 25m x 4m deep and the smoke from burning the bodies could be seen many kilometers away. There was even a photo shown which had a large pall of smoke and clearly had been taken from some distance away. No proof was given for the picture. The 'gas chambers' found by CSC were very close to the filled in and rock strewn burning pits as claimed.
All in all though this programme was flaky to say the least but would cement the thoughts of those who do not doubt or question these things.
Postby tyger » 7 years 1 month ago (Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:24 am)
There was a surprising lack of pre-publicity for this programme. I'd venture that the backers realized that the evidence was extremely underwhelming.
borjastick wrote: They did talk of the burning pits being, I think, 50m x 25m x 4m deep and the smoke from burning the bodies could be seen many kilometers away. There was even a photo shown which had a large pall of smoke and clearly had been taken from some distance away. No proof was given for the picture. The 'gas chambers' found by CSC were very close to the filled in and rock strewn burning pits as claimed.
According to the maps I know, there were cremation grids right next to the burial pits (which were themselves right next to the gas chambers). Were there supposedly burning pits too? And those burning pits were located at Treblinka I if I understand correctly what you say. Are those burning pits a new story or were they allegedly used in addition to the cremation grids?
So the Nazis supposedly transported thousands of tons of exhumed rotten corpses from Treblinka II to Treblinka I in order to burn them in burning pits. Really? Secrecy guaranteed...
I've already seen that photo with smoke and I've noticed that, interestingly, none of those titanic barbecues of human rotten flesh were reported during WW2 (as far as I know). See here: Holocaust and foot-and-mouth disease pyres
hermod, no I think I may have confused you. The cremation pits/grids/burning pits are all the same thing and were supposedly located in Treblinka 2. Reading between the lines of last night's documentary nothing much happened at Treblinka 1 at all.
What is clear is they completely ignored the fact that there would have been deaths en route (as witnessed by Stangl and others) and at the camps themselves, they also ignored the Polish/Russian investigation. In fact they ignored a whole bunch of stuff to make the official story fit the show format and inevitable conclusions.
borjastick wrote: Reading between the lines of last night's documentary nothing much happened at Treblinka 1 at all.
But it was stated in last night's documentary that the human remains were found at Treblinka 1 (the 2 new Holocaust mass graves just found by Sturdy Colls as the documentary triumpantly announced), not at Treblinka 2. Not much for us, but much for the Holocaust believers who don't know the Holocaust narrative in depth (i.e. the vast majority of Holocaust believers). They hear "mass graves" and "Treblinka" and they think evidence for the Treblinka mass gassings has just been found. Treblinka 1 or Treblinka 2, that makes no difference to them.
Postby borjastick » 7 years 1 month ago (Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:34 am)
hermod that's a fair point. I was thinking that 40 human bones does not a mass grave make. However I agree that those who are casual observers and perhaps the fervent holocaustians will feel happy that human remains and mass graves references anywhere in Treblinka prove the facts as claimed.
The problem for them is the bar has been raised in recent years with scholarly research, common sense, internet information and forensics that all play away from the traditional theories of the 6m and gas chambers. Last night's tv show was, in my opinion somewhat of an own goal.
Postby Hutch » 7 years 1 month ago (Thu Nov 28, 2013 8:48 pm)
Gentleman i thought you may like to see snapshots of the "Gas Chamber" evidence, just in case anybody did not see the program in question - i have learned a lot from you all and wanted to give something back.
I hope these attachments enlarge when you click on them.
OMG moment
OMG other side - notice how clean it is probably because it was face up and it was raining
Tile i am sure has been removed and put back, he flips it over imediately to reveal the "Star" on the bottom.
Yellow tile
Mortar tile bed
Alleged WW2 Ground level
Are they "Stars of David" on her wrist?
This lady knows nothing about tiling as she states that the "star of david" was on the outside of the chambers and that the markings "tie" in with the witness evidence.
The markings are probably the manufacturers logo and are on the back between the tile and the mortar bed onto which it is fixed - did eye witnesses possess x-ray vision?
What i learned from this segment of the program was that the Germans possessed good taste in bath house decor and chose white tiles (from Abraham Zrzepicki's account) for the walls and red/orange terracotta for the floors - quite fashionable even today!
Time Team (gave my location away) even though not much of an archaeology program was more thorough than this.
I hope i have not rambled on too much ... if you would like anymore snapshots just ask.
Postby EtienneSC » 7 years 1 month ago (Tue Dec 03, 2013 4:33 pm)
Shots of the Lidar [?] ground scan might be useful. It is shown fairly early on and then shortly after 27.00 minutes.
Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 7 years 1 month ago (Tue Dec 03, 2013 5:01 pm)
Welcome Hutch and thanks for the photos.
Those are 5 point stars on her wrist. Just an unrelated tattoo.
The Star on outside of gas chamber was Kurt Gerstein's reporting of Belzec I believe.
I think they're planted. There were people who investigated in 1946. Judge Lukaskiewicz? And the alleged Nazi idea was to destroy the evidence, hence digging up 600,000 people, but they'd just put a little dirt over the gas chamber floor? The story is they destroyed evidence and then installed a Ukrainian farmer. But there's also talk of big bomb craters there right after the war.
It could be that in a Jewish work camp or ghetto somewhere during WWII, tiles were made that had the star of David. That would be because the work camps promoted blue collar work skills in combination with Zionism. IE when they move to a Jewish country they will need skills. Some of those tiles were "planted" here?
Carlo Mattogno's take will be interesting.
Isn't the story that they even removed the train tracks? So there's symbolic train tracks now installed? But they'd leave the gas chamber floor?
Postby hermod » 7 years 1 month ago (Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:01 pm)
Welcome Hutch.
Caroline Sturdy Colls got restricted excavation rights (only a few small trenches). Let's assume she has really found the mythical Treblinka gas chamber, the Holocaust Holy of Holies. Who can believe she would just have stopped digging after finding a few bricks and tiles? Had she really made such a sensational discovery, I'm pretty sure she would have got unrestricted excavation rights in the minute, maybe even with Israel's chief rabbi or Netanyahu himself driving a bulldozer or an excavator to unearth the whole gas chamber as fast as possible.