I'm beginning to have the tiniest suspicion that all those MPs who voted to table A50 were ever so slightly ill-informed as to the complexities.
My late mother in law was evacuated in this manner from Stepney. To Hayes. She didn't like it and returned 2 days later.
Perhaps the courtly JRM would accommodate her at Smog Towers?
Unlikely. Smog Towers would be one of the earliest targets for the rioters.
I suggest a more apposite Belloc poem would be George….
I have a link to a blog to which I pay regular attention.It is run by Professor John Robertson, formerly a Media Studies professor,now retired. He keeps an eye on the propensity of BBC Scotland to tell lies, particularly about health matters in Scotland.
I think our ruminations about the backstop may not come to anything.
You know as well as me that what the Brady amendment seeks is already in the WA and that the WA was soundly defeated by votes of many of those now supporting the Brady amendment.
I see too that the amendment that the HoC would not accept "no deal" was opposed by 301 votes. Should one suppose there are 301 MPs who support no deal?
Me too. I have been trying to deal with the aftermath of yesterday's defeat. Hence the consolation of Orbison.I'm starting to feel a little better. I'm not completely over it – see here.
A wonderful tribute to liquid bread!
And stable quite ill to see what's what.
But I'm not so think as you drunk I am.
Can I liquor my stand? Why, yes, like hell!
So, Prince, you suggest I've bolted my shot?
Well, like what you say, and soul your damn!
In regard to latest poll showing a 7% Tory lead over Labour, this might be a reflection on Corbyn being seen as both a remainer and Brexiteer. Some seem to think that Corbyn is trying to prevent Brexit and others think he is wanting a no deal Brexit, as he has always been a not very secret Leave supporter.
I would suggest that Labour have been equally as poor as the Tories on Brexit. If Starmer were totally in charge of Labours Brexit policy, with Corbyn not getting involved, then I suspect we would see a much clearer policy position. But Corbyn has always been conflicted on Brexit and he cannot hide the fact that he does not support the UK's current EU membership terms.
If Labour stand any chance of building support for their policies including Brexit, then the leadership cannot hold a totally different vision than most of the current Westminster party. They cannot go into an election that might happen this year, with the party as divided as they are.
The answer to Labours Brexit issue might be to fully support a delay to Brexit and to have a second referendum, with the choice being either no deal exit or remain. The EU are not going to change the backstop, because they see this as essential and there is nothing suggesting they will change their minds.
Here are the tables for the Opinium poll.
Or just sweat it out and wait for the political agenda to move on to more productive issues?
Once Brexit is concluded, I expect to see a sharp upturn in Labour fortune. And if some of the Blairites are daft enough to go off and form their own Ne0-L1b party, then happy days.
I know your reply to JIB was tongue in cheek but it does look from the tables like it is Lab remainers going Lib Dem and Green.
I still find it a little bit odd that even though Labour have zero chance of forcing a 2nd referendum (subject to events of course) that they are getting blamed for not forcing one.
Sounds like HM the Queen will be requesting a German passport, as part of 'no deal' Brexit arrangements. This is just in case her Government have not put in place agreements with foreign Goverments to allow her entry on her travels.
My great uncle worked on water supply systems in Malaya.
Fascinating day of sport yesterday. England cricketers crash to a second defeat by the Windies who have outplayed England in every department, even pre-planning. We thought the Windies pitches would take spin as they have done recently. Instead we have been presented with pitches ideally suited to the Windies quartet of fast bowlers, and why wouldn't they. We tend to produce pitches ideally suited to our bowlers.
Scotland performed well against Italy but then went to sleep and allowed several late Italian tries. Meanwhile England produced their best performance in many a year by totally dominating Ireland. I cannot remember when I saw Ireland out played in every department of the game and the score flattered Ireland. England must not get overconfident though. Yesterday's performance should be set as the baseline and they should aim much higher.
Interesting poll from Opinion a labour lead of 3 becomes a Tory lead of seven. Looks like one outlier to another. My own view is that the Tories are probably 3-4% ahead of Labour at the moment.
Good to see 42% support for No deal IMO.
Have a good day all, I must say my wife and I are feeling particularly chipper today and a 5 mile walk is planned.
There is a very simple and compelling explanation for this – there are people like me!
I want another referendum. I think personally it is of critical importance to the nation that we have one.
I know the whole Referendum debacle, start to finish is a Conservative issue. I know a second referendum is hard to bring about. However, what upsets me about Labour on this they haven't really tried – and that is the crux of it for me.
There are a number of issues close to my heart, PR and now a second referendum, and if a party is earn my vote it needs to fight for these and show willing. If it won't try, I won't vote for them.
I've seen too much party political game playing over Brexit. I've seen too few actions based on core principles. (This is most MPs BTW, not just one party).
Ta for your post – saved me writing in a similar vein.
It's the mixture of apathy and dishonesty that I hate and whilst I never saw Corbyn as a PM I am quite certain now that it will never happen.
R Huckle: In regard to latest poll showing a 7% Tory lead over Labour, this might be a reflection on Corbyn being seen as both a remainer and Brexiteer. Some seem to think that Corbyn is trying to prevent Brexit and others think he is wanting a no deal Brexit, as he has always been a not very secret Leave supporter.
It's the danger of his position. Everyone thinks he's on their side because he is on the fence. And now everyone can see he is on the fence, they count him as being on the other side. For Corbyn personally, I think there is no way back from this – even if he chooses a side, he will not be trusted by either side.
shevii: I still find it a little bit odd that even though Labour have zero chance of forcing a 2nd referendum (subject to events of course) that they are getting blamed for not forcing one.
It is not odd, they are being blamed for not trying.
Referring to what @TCO posted, it looks like the Labour plan is to not commit to too much and hover up the ABT (anyone but Tory) vote, think there is nowhere else for these voters to go.
I'm not sure sure Labour can hold a broad tent like that anymore. The fragmentation across all political parties blown apart by Brexit is clear to see.
On the other hand, it's only one poll etc.
Some mention upthread of a drop in Labour membership.
Someone in SLab has leaked the details for every constituency in Scotland (SLab constituency parties reflect Holyrood constituencies).
20% drop overall in the last year (in my constituency too) with 38% in Eastwood – rising to 52% if members in arrears don't rejoin.
The "insider" said "Every Labour MSP knows at least one long-serving activist who has quit in disgust at our ambivalence about Brexit or our toleration of racism.
The SLab civil war seems to entering one of its many recurrent phases. Since the previous SLab leadership election was 15 months ago, a new one seems about due.
Patrickbrian: On the other hand, it's only one poll etc.
I think there is a world of difference between a single poll which yields an unexpected result and a single poll which yields a result which everyone wonders why it hasn't happened earlier ….
While the swing almost certainly isn't real and indicates this is a bit of an outlier, I wouldn't be surprised if 'under the bonnet' there is a smaller real swing. I think the past week or so have worked in May and the Tory's favour in terms of publicity, so I had anticipated a small movement. It remains to be seen if that positive feeling lasts beyond next week. If 'nothing has changed' yet again by the time of the next big HoC vote, we'll still have no idea where we're heading, or what the public reaction will be.
It will be happy days indeed, for the Conservatives. A handful of Labour moderates splitting off being good for Labour fortunes? Come off it. Check out the effect of the SDP on Labour.
I would very much agree with @CMJ and @R&D regarding the lack of honesty and principle amongst our politicians.
Brexit illustrates the overriding weakness of the UK constitutional arrangements, compounded by the current crop of personalities. Most of the time it works reasonably well, with some notable points that are much admired abroad, along with some much less attractive features. In this, we are like virtually every other democracy – a basically good system, but with some weaknesses.
Unfortunately, the UK's weaknesses are at their most acute when we face a very big issue that does not fit neatly into a binary two party choice.
Both May and Corbyn have been guilty of seeking party advantage over an honest review of the national interest. Corbyn, in my view, is greatly hampered by his visceral contempt for Conservatives. He really seems to struggle to reach out to moderates in his own party, let alone bring himself to work with those in the Conservative Party who share some of his views on Brexit. He wants Brexit to be a Conservative issue, so hangs back, happy for May to drive the country onto the rocks, instead of leading Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition to seek to get the best outcome for the nation.
May's contempt for democracy is worse, mainly due to the fact that she is the Prime Minister, and so, under our constitution, is in control of the process entirely.
The report this morning regarding her attempts to stifle debate and scrutiny of the WAIB is another staggering example of how little control parliament is taking back. May insists still that she will leave the EU on March 29th, whereas proper legal scrutiny of the WAIB should have been underway for months already, with a draft bill published for consultation.
This is nothing to do with honouring the result of the referendum. May is making promises that (she says) _will_ bind the hands of future parliaments. This will almost certainly be of the greater upset to Brexiters, but all sides are likely to by unhappy with the details, yet our constitution apparently allows her to proceed without consultation or scrutiny.
If our system of governance allowed a more open style of decision making, with less two party dominance, then a more cooperative model of functioning could have allowed a more consensual approach to Brexit.
All our devolved administrations rely on such an approach, which isn't an accident. When all of these were created in the modern era, everyone accepted that some form of proportional representation and the consequent alternative arrangements in the parliament/assemblies was simply a better way of doing things. It's no surprise that some of the more controversial issues have been addressed outside Westminster.
The Westminster way has been found severely wanting, with two leaders unable to adjust to counter the structural weaknesses of the constitution because of their own personal failings.
I strongly suspect that history will judge this period of governance to be a failure, and the individuals concerned will struggle to get a worthy mention from the historians.
NO! Not new post, New thread!!!!!! Eeejit am I!
Big cars arent any more economic however you power them.
I think the choice is either subsidise farmers to work as park keepers and maintain the countryside looking pretty, or pay them to be farmers and at least make some of the money needed for its upkeep.
if you dont worry about continuing to produce our own food, about maintaining a workforce of people who have the skills to do that, i assume you have given up any pretensions the Uk will ever again engage in serious warfare. Or even worry whether the expanding world population might yet bring food production back to the top of the list of national priorities. This is an island dependant on imports to survive, which has not paid its way in decades.
A nice castle in Germany maybe?
I maintain both sides are doing everything thay can not to take a position, because whatever that position is, it will offend someone. labour's backstop position is to be the opposition, and allow blame for action to fall upon the government for taking that action.
Labour most probably see the best outcome for them to be the conservatives halting Brexit. Whereas, conservatives see it as labour halting brexit.
meanwhile voters are getting increasingly narked that neither side is doing anything about an oncoming diaster. The politicians will no doubt feel that once one or other side blinks and halts brexit, this ground can easily be made up.
labour can sit back thinking that if the worst does happen, most of the blame will still fall on the government. but the government can take comfort that while most people might now oppose brexit, the most diehard supporters are on its side.
Singular lack of anyone posting raw polling data, to see whether these reported rises in support might not in fact be falling number of supporters for both labour and conservative, but big rise for the dont knows.