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Featured Mosaic law still present?
Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Remté, Feb 15, 2019.
2ndpillar Well-Known Member
oldbadger said: ↑
No. Indeed, Luke was no witness. But John was not the disciple, not a witness.... Look at how muddled his timeline of events was.
Matthew copied Mark, Q, and one other report, so he may not have been a disciple either.
But GMark was probably the memoirs of Cephas, written by the guy who followed him, ran at the arrest, etc
Mark was "probably the memoirs of Cephas"? Was that the same Cephas, who not only ran, but denied Christ 3 times after Satan had asked to sift Peter as wheat. No, relying on Mark, if indeed he was Peter's scribe, gives you no leverage. Peter was the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17, who wouldn't feed, care or tend the sheep, and who was along with Paul and Judas Iscariot, the 3 shepherds of Zechariah 11:8, who were to die in the same month/generation. Peter and Paul, both the shepherds/staffs taken to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), which was the Gentile church. You can always revert to the "Scripture" "which cannot be broken", the Law and the prophets. That is what Yeshua did. Of course that will leave the Gentile church in the lurch, and prepped for "YHWH's valley of judgment" (Joel 3:12 & 2).
#261 2ndpillar, Mar 17, 2019
What was the name of this whole land during Herod the Great's rule
Apparently Judea.
File:Herodian tetrachy.png - Wikipedia
sooda Veteran Member
2ndpillar said: ↑
Mark was "probably the memoirs of Cephas"? Was that the same Cephas, who not only ran, but denied Christ 3 times after Satan had asked to sift Peter as wheat. No, relying on Mark, if indeed he was Peter's scribe, gives you no leverage. Peter was the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17, who wouldn't feed, care or tend the sheep, and who was along with Paul and Judas Iscariot, the 3 shepherds of Zechariah 11:8, who were to die in the same month/generation. Peter and Paul, both the shepherds/staffs taken to
"pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), which was the Gentile church. You can always revert to the "Scripture" "which cannot be broken", the Law and the prophets. That is what Yeshua did. Of course that will leave the Gentile church in the lurch, and prepped for "YHWH's valley of judgment" (Joel 3:12 & 2).
Florus' Oppressive Reign was the primary Cause of the War with Rome.
Gessius Florus, the Roman procurator of Judea at the start of the Jewish rebellion, oppressed the Jewish population ultimately causing unrest in Jerusalem. As punishment for this uprising, Florus dispatched soldiers to plunder the Upper Market in Jerusalem and kill everyone therein. As a result 3,600 men, woman and children were killed.The Wars of the Jews 2.14.9." data-hasqtip="2">3 Florus' harsh treatment of the Jewish population in Israel was largely responsible for triggering the Jewish War with Rome.
#263 sooda, Mar 17, 2019
oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!
Mark was "probably the memoirs of Cephas"?
Was that the same Cephas, who not only ran,
Everybody ran! Do you think anybody else got arrested with Yeshua?
.....but denied Christ 3 times ....
So he had the guts to return and follow to see what could be done?
You can knock him for denying, but I reckon that was wise.
By the way, who was the witness that could later report all that? Nobody? In which case Cephas himself it was who told the world about his actions..... You can trust most of G-Mark, save the edits and manipulations of devout Christians later on. You can ignore the last verses fior sure.
......after Satan had asked to sift Peter as wheat.
Satan? Hmmm..... we all have weak moments. You have weak moments, true? Does that destroy your every report?
No, relying on Mark, if indeed he was Peter's scribe, gives you no leverage.
Mark legged it at the arrest as well, and Mark admitted that in his book. I respect folks who are straight like that.
Peter was the "worthless shepherd" of Zechariah 11:16-17, who wouldn't feed, care or tend the sheep, and who was along with Paul and Judas Iscariot, the 3 shepherds of Zechariah 11:8, who were to die in the same month/generation. Peter and Paul, both the shepherds/staffs taken to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), which was the Gentile church.
Yeah....... I reckon that's all junk. No value in it it at all.
You can always revert to the "Scripture" "which cannot be broken", the Law and the prophets. That is what Yeshua did. Of course that will leave the Gentile church in the lurch, and prepped for "YHWH's valley of judgment" (Joel 3:12 & 2).
I just stick to what history can be gleaned from the events during the Baptist's and Yeshua's missions. I'm not interested in all the prophesy spin, or the ideas of Paul afterwards.
#264 oldbadger, Mar 17, 2019
According to your choice of map, apparently not Judea.
Judea was a third part of one of the four tetrarchs (Quarters).
So far we have not got a name for Herod's Kingdom! I call it either Israel or Palestine because at least many other folks can understand the whole of it.
Judea was just one of three provinces controlled by Archelaus until he was retired (as useless) and a Roman Prefect was commissioned to run it under the orders of the Syrian Legate.
The other two quarters were no part of Judea either.
So far........... no name for the whole, then?
The map shows Samaria, Judea, and Idumea, as well as the previous land of the Philistines.
Herod, who was a product of a father from Idumea/Edom, was a puppet of Rome, and his "kingdom" did not represent the land of the Jews, which is shown on the map as Judea. Samaria, as shown on the map, would represent the approximate land of the exiled "house of Israel"/Joseph/Ephraim and Manassas, and Idumea/Edom, which falls approximately on the inheritance of Simeon, not Judah, as in Judea. The "house of Israel" has not been regathered as of this time (Ezekiel 36:17 & 24), but will eventually be settled in the "land I gave to Jacob" the original inheritance (Ezekiel 37:25). The "Word of God's" name, is "the land I gave to Jacob"/Israel. The old badger name, is apparently the left's politically correct "Palestine". Which one will weather the winds of time ?
https://www.conformingtojesus.com/images/webpages/12_tribes_division_of_israel_map_1.png
Ezekiel 36:5 - Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Surely in the fire of my jealousy have I spoken against the residue of the heathen, and against all Idumea, which have appointed my land into their possession with the joy of all [their] heart, with despiteful minds, to cast it out for a prey.
So you are saying "Mark" was with Peter when Peter denied Yeshua? I missed that part, can you give a reference? Or are you saying Marks words "they all left him and fled" includes Mark (Mark 14:50)? Shouldn't he have said "we all left him"? Personally, I think you are making things up.
2ndpillar wrote: Zechariah 11:16-17, who wouldn't feed, care or tend the sheep, and who was along with Paul and Judas Iscariot, the 3 shepherds of Zechariah 11:8, who were to die in the same month/generation. Peter and Paul, both the shepherds/staffs taken to "pasture" the "flock doomed for slaughter" (Zechariah 11:7), which was the Gentile church.
old padger wrote: Yeah....... I reckon that's all junk. No value in it it at all.
Well, according to Matthew 27:3 & 9-10, Judas was identified as the fulfillment of Zechariah 11:12-13, which was quoted. John lets the monkey out of the bag when he has Yeshua telling Peter to feed, care, and tend my lambs, and asked Peter 3 times if he loved him, the same number of times which Peter denied him. This all with respect to the "worthless shepherd" who would not feed, care or tend the sheep according to Zechariah 11:16-17. Paul is outed by his trying to annul the covenant with the peoples, which would be the covenant with Abraham, which is pointed out in Zechariah 11:10.
There were several other named provinces in that land.
There is no thing political in my posts about what Herod's Kingdom was called after his death.
And so, as you can see, those who wish to correct my Israel or my Palestine are stumped for a name for the whole group of provinces controlled by Philip, Antipas and a Roman Prefect
Peter did not deny at the arrest!
That was later. Can you see that?
Mark wrote about himself in the third person. His description of the young man tearing out of his clothing and running free in to the dark was surely him. Only he would remember that. Nobody else would have had time to notice.
I don't make stuff up.
I just stick to what is reported on the gospels, any archeological reports, and other writings.
Zechariah ......? I take no notice of such writings.
Paul? Paul never bothered to learn anything about what happened, he never wrote a single detail of the mission apart from the last supper. Paul was not a witness.
I just stick to what I can see . For instance, I think I know what Judas's real name was. It clearly was not Judas. Do you know?
I can see nothing of the kind. Why would Mark speak in the third person? And apparently Peter had followed, and according to you, Mark was scribing for Peter. I could tell you who the naked guy was, but then you might explode.
Well, I just gave you "other writings". I guess you will have to stick with this "other writing". And you didn't stick with the "gospels", you ad-libbed..
What was the real name of Judas?
IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
sooda said: ↑
These guys were certainly opposed to Greek influences.
Meet the Hasmoneans: A brief history of a violent epoch
The Herodian Dynasty that would rule Judea over the next century had Hasmonean blood through Mariamne, who bore Herod two sons and two daughters. In their assimilation, they were a far, far cry from the family of priests from Modiin who, centuries before, had raised the banner of revolt against the Hellenization of Judea.
It wasn't just the Hasmonians. In general, once the Maccabean war was won, the rabbis and priests in Jerusalem were anti-Hellenistic. Were there Hellenized Jews out in the diaspora? Sure. But they weren't the movers and shakers in the Jewish world.
#276 IndigoChild5559, Mar 17, 2019
IndigoChild5559 said: ↑
The Maccabees were a group of Jewish rebel warriors who took control of Judea, which at the time was part of the Seleucid Empire.
They founded the Hasmonean dynasty, which ruled from 167 BCE to 37 BCE, being a fully independent kingdom from about 110 to 63 BCE.
They reasserted the Jewish religion, partly by forced conversion, expanded the boundaries of Judea by conquest and reduced the influence of Hellenism and Hellenistic Judaism. wiki
My question is did they also assert control over Samaria and the areas of Galilee and the Decapolis?
metis said: ↑
Exactly, but which branch had the supposed correct Oral Law [Tradition] is conjectural.
Rabbi Abba said that Shmuel said: For three years Beit Shammai and Beit Hillel disagreed. These said: The halakha is in accordance with ouropinion, and these said: The halakha is in accordance with our opinion. Ultimately, a Divine Voice emerged and proclaimed: Both these and those are the words of the living God. However, the halakha is in accordance with the opinion of Beit Hillel.
Eruvin 13b
Ya, but Jesus went well beyond Hillel, as the latter certainly would not agree with Jesus' watering down and then walking away from the Law, which is what happened. Even though Hillel felt the application of the Law could be somewhat flexible, he still felt that the letter of the Law could not be ignored.
I don't believe the gospels support Jesus walking away from the Law. "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished." Jesus attacked the halakha of Beit Shammai, not halakha in general.
Good luck in your busy week. If you can't respond, I understand.
You are fixated upon Judea. Trachonitis, Gaulanitus, Gallilee, Decapolis, Idumea, Judea, Perea, and even Samaria were all included as the lands previously ruled by Herod. Please to give a title for them all. ????
There is no word.
Once upon a time there was a powerful ruler called Herod-the-Great, who died in 4BC. His lands were split up and control was handed to Antipas (quarter), Philip (quarter) and Archelaus (half).
What was the name of this whole land during Herod the Great's rule?
It certainly wasn't called Palestine.
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