#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-01-31
<hajour> totally agree
<AlanBell> but I do recall we were discussing whether Mark Shuttleworth was a cosmonaut or an astronaut so I used this link to make my point
<AlanBell> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=billionaire+cosmonaut+bachelor
<hajour> well if i ask for what it means i reither like to get 1 other word what means the same not page to read
<hajour> i just get lost on that moment in very many lines
<hajour> if i have a better day i can read it .difficult but i can.
<hajour> then i also do not ask
<hajour> because i don't need it
<hajour> i understand AlanBell  what you mean 
<maco> I was discussing the Dasher-crashing issue with a friend who's into accessibilty stuff and can code (attempting to recruit), and he pointed out that adding a watchdog script to restart it when it crashes would help the immediate situation til all the bugs can be fixed
<JackyAlcine> maco: That sounds effective.
<AlanBell> maco: that is a good idea
<JackyAlcine> Is Qt a development system that Ubuntu Accessibility would recommend?
<AlanBell> maco: ^^
<AlanBell> as QT might end up in the default install it will need to work, right now I understand it is not as complete as GTK in terms of A11y APIs
<JackyAlcine> AlanBell: Hm, in an attempt to improve voice recognition, I've started this. (https://www.launchpad.net/cmusphinx-train)
<JackyAlcine> It's in C++ and Qt.
<JackyAlcine> AlanBell: If there's anything about it that needs tweaking or work, please tell me. :)
<maco> JackyAlcine: screen readers can't handle it, period
<maco> and fixing this is not on Nokia's roadmap
<JackyAlcine> >_<
<maco> they just say "patches welcome!" ... but it needs someone (or two or three) working full time for a year
<JackyAlcine> So it's GTK all the way?
<AlanBell> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/568#comment-343659 Mark does not appear to have responded to this
<AlanBell> full time developers working on it is not outside the bounds of possibility, but so far there is no commitment to do that
<maco> even luke's got accessibility only part of his fulltime job..
<AlanBell> I know
<JackyAlcine> AlanBell: It said on this page that Qt 4 supports at-spi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assistive_Technology_Service_Provider_Interface) 
<JackyAlcine> And I've noticed a few "accessibility" components when it comes to creating a Qt GUI application..
<JanC> JackyAlcine: if I understand correctly, they have an interface for at-spi support, but to make widgets accessible you have to wrap them and implement some things yourself?
<JackyAlcine> Yes, JanC.
<JanC> e.g. standard QPushButton etc. is derived from QWidget, not from QAccessibleWidget...
<JanC> well, accesibleName & accesibleDescription are implemented in QWidget
<JanC> that should help if the developer sets them
<JackyAlcine> And I've set those values as fully as possible.
<JanC> but I'm not familiar enough with at-spi & a11y to know if that is "enough"
<JackyAlcine> Hopefully, it is, JanC.
<JanC> if you need to wrapp all basic widgets yourself to get full at-spi support, that would not be fun for application developers  ;)
<JackyAlcine> >_< If it's required, then by all means.
<maco> JackyAlcine: i saw a press release from ... oh it was probably Trolltech back then...that was like "hey, new Qt! and now with at-spi!" and mentioned it to one of the Qt guys at the last UDS and he said something about having to have a talk with the PR people :-/
<JackyAlcine> PR?
<maco> public relations
<maco> the people who write press releases
<AlanBell> jcastro just started this page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Unity/KeyboardShortcuts
<charlie-tca> great. He said he would do that for us
<hajour> great AlanBell 
<AlanBell> that is a work in progress, there should be more key bindings to follow
<hajour> i am looking foreword tto that
<hajour> to i mean
<charlie-tca> yes, there will be. But that was to help us get started
<hajour> well work in progress is better then not at all thought :)
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-02-01
<hajour> good night all :)
<JanC> http://www.signpuddle.net/plaintext/ looks interesting
<Pici> Interesting.
<Pici> Some of them are a bit creepy looking though: http://www.signpuddle.net/plaintext/364/index.html
<JanC> hehe
<JanC> "teeth on tongue movement"
<maco> http://dankaminsky.com/2011/01/14/dankam-on-tv/
<Pendulum> cool
<Pendulum> ugh about some of the wording from the reporter :-/
<maco> i havent gotten to watch since no speakers at work
<maco> also...no decently-fast internet at home...
<Pendulum> called colour blindness a "deficiency"
<maco> hmm should go borrow annalee's fios for a bit
<hajour> great that program
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-02-02
<JanC> what does it do actually?  (that wasn't clear from what they showed...)
<charlie-tca> I will be verifying the screen-reader install tomorrow, then publish the test case for QA
<charlie-tca> we just got the images a little while ago 
<hajour> which regio/province is budapest in the country Hungarian?
<Pendulum> hajour: it looks like it's in Central Hungary
<hajour> thank you pendulum :)
<maco> JanC: it shifts the hues slightly so that they become visible for specific types of colourblindness
<maco> JanC: i perceive it as saturation, but that's not really it
<maco> (i saw it demo'd this weekend. dan held up his phone facing his colourblindness-test shirt)
<JanC> ah, makes sense
<charlie-tca> maco: were the person working the sign language program?
<maco> yes
<charlie-tca> Johnny77 on beginners-team is studying it in school and asked if there were any plans to do something for the deaf.
<maco> howso?
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-02-03
<charlie-tca> in college to become a sign language interpreter
<charlie-tca> You are in the right place, johnny77 
<johnny77> charlie-tca: thank you. 
<johnny77> maco: I heard that you were working on some stuff for Deaf accessibility. I'm studying to become a sign language interpreter and was just curious on what you are working on. 
<maco> i just wrote sign language teaching software and brought back the UI for enabling visual system bell (because auditory one is useless if deaf)
<maco> cool stuff totally out of my league would be sign-to-text software (which does exist, some folks are using Kinect for it and one of my profs mentioned some researches i think at BU who were doing it with webcams)
<hajour> maco i am busy to make a plan so that deaf people also can use speechcontrol without to have to sit down before the pc.like being on the other side of the room and still know what the pc says in way of speaking
<johnny77> Being more of a beginner, and not knowing any programming languages, I was thinking more of sign language tutorials, but it looks like you are way ahead of me. 
<maco> at the moment word lists for lessons would be very handy
<maco> then people who can sign can just go through the list and record the signs withut having to first think "hmm what would be a useful sign?"
<hajour> i just have idea s and then pull people who can make it
<hajour> what if it are no signs but something you feel maco .:)
<hajour> give me a week or 2 weeks and then i can tell more maco 
<hajour> johnny77, ^
<hajour> johnny77,  i have in speechcontrol also students :)
<hajour> btw johnny77  maco knows a lot :)
<johnny77> Cool, I'm intrigued with the sign language aspect of the accessibility. Not sure if I'd be able to help much, but maybe keep me in the back of your mind. If you need a list of words signed or something. 
<johnny77> BTW: I'm learning American Sign Language. 
<maco> thats what i use
<maco> btw #gally for my app
<johnny77> I gotta set away for a few minutes... I'll try to get back on in a little bit. 
<maco> kk
<hajour> johnny77,  have you signed the coc key?
<hajour> i  am going to sleep now goodnight all:)
<johnny77> Sorry, I'm back.
<johnny77> hajour: If you're still on, yes I have. 
<hajour> ok :) i have always 24 hours a day mostly chats on because of irc channel
<Ronnie> i created a google map with pointers to specific items (http://people.ubuntu.com/~ronnie.vd.c/map.html). this map maybe will be used by other communities in the future, but i want to know how this map behaves toghether with accessibility tools. How can i make this map more accessible?
<hajour> cprofitt may i give ubuntu to the primary school here in this village?
<hajour> i have not asked yet because i first wanted to know or i may give it free
<cprofitt> hajour: I would assume so, but I am not aware of their rules and regs
<cprofitt> Ubuntu is FOSS so you are allowed to from an Ubuntu perspective
<hajour> schools pc s are on low lvl here 2001 windows system
<Pendulum> should be fine from an Ubuntu perspective
<Pendulum> more a question of what the school thinks and if there are people there who can support it
<hajour> and goverment is again giving less money. 300 million less on all schools
<Pendulum> hajour: they might do better with edubuntu than regular Ubuntu
<hajour> ok then i go call the director from the school now :) 
<hajour> thanks cprofitt and Pendulum 
<hajour> i only not nowyet how i can get the discs
<hajour> Pendulum,  he want only on paper that  ubuntu gives it to the school. XD and first look what programs ubuntu have or it is useble 
<hajour> cprofitt^
<hajour> i understand he want it on paper because of the legal aspect . he have to explain on paper to the government
<hajour> cprofitt i mean .forgot to put space in
<AlanBell> hajour: you can get disks from shipit.ubuntu.com
<hajour> if i succeed then probably all primary schools go over on ubuntu in this province
<hajour> :))
<hajour> i will ask help from UndiFineD 
<AlanBell> well good luck, but it is hard
<hajour> well the director was very interested AlanBell 
<hajour> i don't think it will be hard .all is in ubuntu thought
<Pendulum> hajour: I'm going to ask in #ubuntu-community-team if there's a contact at Canonical that might be able to help you
<hajour> ok Pendulum :)
<hajour> have i to go there to or just wait in accessibility Pendulum ?
<Pendulum> hajour: feel free to join in :)
<hajour> first time i will people convince to use ubuntu my kids not count in ofcourse
<hajour> ok Pendulum :)
<hajour> Pendulum,  i dont know how to start
<hajour> how to say in english
<Pendulum> hajour: I just did the basic bit in what I asked
<hajour> yes was it good i have tell the rest to or have i tell to much?
<Pendulum> I think you've said enough
<hajour> yak i am to excited making more mistakes in writhing because of that
<hajour> yak= bah
<Pendulum> I knew what you meant :)
<hajour> :)
<hajour> Pendulum,  if i succeed there will come a domino effect. then more schools go use it
<hajour> in netherland
<cprofitt> hold on...
<JanC> schools will probably want a company to give support though
<cprofitt> http://www.slideshare.net/indigo196/ed-tech-2010
<cprofitt> that might help with schools
<cprofitt> though it is US centric
<hajour> well  this was what ubuntu wanted thought
<cprofitt> http://www.slideshare.net/indigo196/fosscon
<hajour> and children learnon school use ubuntu and they are the future
<hajour> reading :)
<hajour> is there also in dutch?
<hajour> it are i mean th education
<Ronnie> hajour: from http://edubuntu.org/about "If you have any copyright concerns or questions, then you are always more than welcome to contact us about it."
<hajour> or need we to translate so fast as possible?
<hajour> i mean the kids getting lessons in dutch not english
<JanC> it's probabl better to adapt current dutch lessons to Ubuntu
<Ronnie> hajour: i think you can get much information from http://ict.hethooghuis.nl/ they started to test ubuntu(or edubuntu) deploying in school around the city oss
<JanC> if they want to share lessosn, that would certainly be cool
<hajour> yes JanC 
<cprofitt> Ronnie: there is more to education and Open than edubuntu
<hajour> but al need to be in dutch
<cprofitt> Open Coureware, Open Curriculum, etc
<Ronnie> hajour: i think you your first step should be contacting hooghuis
<cprofitt> http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm
<hajour> i have the feeling this will become a major job
<cprofitt> I try to get people invovled from the curriculum angle first...
<cprofitt> then slip the software in
<hajour> i will .but i need to wait till tomorrow .primary schools are closed now
<JanC> Ronnie: I guess the people from that school also were involved with the release parties in Oss ?
<Ronnie> JanC: yes they were. i spoke shortly with them
<Ronnie> they were very entausiast about ubuntu
<hajour> jan and ronnie will you help me with this to do all good?
<JanC> hajour: I think Ronnie can get you and the school you talk about in contact with the school in Oss
<hajour> ok that would be nice JanC  and Ronnie :)
<hajour> if this succeed i will go more schools in friesland
<hajour> go call i mean
<hajour> but if i need to go to oss how will i come there then ?
<Ronnie> hajour: you can start mailing them
<hajour> yes with that i need help from UndiFineD 
<Ronnie> maybe after the first contact, the school itself can contact to hooghuis about that stuff. if they can share ideas and solutions that will be very cool
<hajour> dos google maps need accessibility help cprofitt?
<hajour> yes Ronnie :)
<Ronnie> hajour: here more information about "nederland open in verbinding (noiv)" which is a gouverment organization about open standards and open source: https://wiki.noiv.nl/xwiki/bin/view/NOiV/Artikel%20Open%20source%20in%20opkomst%20in%20onderwijs%20Europa
<Ronnie> https://wiki.noiv.nl/xwiki/bin/view/NOiV/Onderwijs
<hajour> i have called to noiv but they are in a meeting now so i call tomorrow back
<hajour> cprofitt,  ^
<hajour> and Pendulum  ^
<Pendulum> hajour: sounds like a plan :)
<hajour> i already busy :P
<hajour> with it
<hajour> AlanBell,  how the speechprograms are now from ubuntu?
<hajour> 1 of them good already?
<hajour> Pendulum,  i hope you will not be annoyed and cprofitt  but i have say to the school i had asked permission to my boss from here to do this.else the director had not listen to me.i have said i am volunteer :P
<Pendulum> hajour: it's fine :)
 * Pendulum goes to run errands
<hajour> ok Pendulum  till later :)
<hajour> cprofitt,  the school boards som e of theme are electronic and need to be able to make contact to the pc s
<hajour> i wonder or ubuntu is asble to do that
<hajour> i need to do  errands  to and after that cooking and eating diner
<hajour> till later :)
<cprofitt> hey jono 
<jono> hey cprofitt
<cprofitt> how have ya been?
<hajour> testing if the fonts are bigger now 
<hajour> AlanBell,  the fonts from xchat cant be put bigger then 14 that is a problem for me
<hajour> i need at least 16
<hajour> i already going see more worse then normal because i have to very concentrate with half closed eyes to see chat
<charlie-tca> hajour: Using xchat in Xubuntu, I put the fonts at 64
<charlie-tca> and it worked
<hajour> i cant use xubuntu charlie-tca  i got not enough processor power
<charlie-tca> but xchat still should be able to resize fonts big. Not the gnome-xchat, though, maybe.
<hajour> i have xchat charlie-tca 
<hajour> i click  bigger fonts on and then restart xchat but it stays on font 14 size
<charlie-tca> that's strange. Mine get bigger. I can that a serious bug, too.
<hajour> i can hardly read now because its not go to size 16
<charlie-tca> I can understand that. Can AlanBell do anything there?
<hajour> i don't know charlie-tca  and UndiFineD  also not know why it  is not working
<charlie-tca> Can you or UndiFineD file a bug report using        ubuntu-bug xchat    
<charlie-tca> and tell me the number?
<hajour> UndiFineD,  is to his bed alraedy
<charlie-tca> It can wait, I will send it to the xchat developers when I get it
<hajour> ok charlie-tca 
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-02-04
<AlanBell> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/TeamReports/11/January  << please add stuff
<AlanBell_> charlie-tca, xchat-gnome works fine with large font size
<AlanBell_> however the field you type in is the system size or something
<hajour> i could not ask questions because i could not read very good from class .i will read the logs. because my chat will not give bigger fonts then 14
<hajour> jono, ^
<AlanBell> hajour: I tried xchat-gnome and got very big font sizes
<AlanBell> can you help me to reproduce the problem please
<hajour> i don't know why it will not work but its very annoying AlanBell  if you read slower then i already thit
<AlanBell> you are using xchat-gnome?
<hajour> no
<hajour> xchat
<AlanBell> ok, I will try that, one sec  . . .
<hajour> i have so less possible gnome gtk because of less processor power and not much memory
<hajour> 1 gb memory
<AlanBell_> hi
<hajour> hai AlanBell 
<AlanBell_> this is using xchat with the ubuntu font at 32 point size
<AlanBell_> it is kind of big
<hajour> ye well i normaly use font size 16 and that is still not very big for me but i have a 10 inch screen so i cant use bigger then size 16
<hajour> i know are almost stick with my nose against the screen
<hajour> with size 14
<AlanBell_> ok, so what is the problem again?
<AlanBell_> I thought you said the font size wouldn't go above 16?
<hajour> no not above 14
<AlanBell_> so mine will go to any size, right now it is at 32 which is way above 14
<hajour> i select then click ok i restart
<hajour> but then it stay 14
<AlanBell_> for me it changed the size without needing to restart
<hajour> i understand it work with you AlanBell  but its not working on mine i use lubuntu because i needed a light weight program
<AlanBell_> ah, ok, I don't have lubuntu
<AlanBell_> I was just trying to understand what the difference is between what I have and what you have
<AlanBell_> to see if there is a bug to file
<hajour> with ubuntu i get screen freeze
<hajour> ok thanks AlanBell 
<AlanBell> back to irssi now
<charlie-tca> Did Lubuntu do something to cause the font size to stop growing?
<AlanBell> OK, I don't think there is a bug to file against xchat or xchat-gnome
<hajour> i don't know charlie-tca 
<hajour> i was following class from python but i have already missed 2 lessons .first because i was getting screen freeze by ubuntu and sec was because of the font size problem
<hajour> AlanBell,  and charlie-tca  bioterror have solved my font problem
<charlie-tca> great
<hajour> ye XD
<hajour> i got dislectic but it feels if i can read like the first time XD
<hajour> charlie-tca, if you want to know how he did it you have to ask bioterror because i honest not know how he did it
<charlie-tca> okay
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-02-05
<JackyAlcine> Hey, development question, what's the highest version of GTK supported?
<JackyAlcine> for accessibility's needs?
<AlanBell> define supported?
<JackyAlcine> AlanBell: Like compatible with the ATK? I'm changing UIs for the VRT app SpeechControl's making.
<charlie-tca> updated the team report for testing and bugs
#ubuntu-accessibility 2011-02-06
<JackyAlcine> http://askubuntu.com/questions/21707/what-are-the-accessibility-problems-of-qt
<nigelb> hrm, charlie-tca is awake ;)
<charlie-tca> well, almost, anyway
<nigelb> My inbox says you're awake :p
<charlie-tca> ooops
<charlie-tca> might have found a bug or two needs work
<nigelb> hehe
<nigelb> I'm subscribed to accesibility bugs list
<nigelb> so when you start working, I get mails :)
<charlie-tca> yeah, and I might have found one to work ;-)
<nigelb> hehe :D
<charlie-tca> Still trying to get through all the old bugs. Should be done in a week or so, though
<nigelb> w00t
<charlie-tca> been a busy month, 200+ bugs to triage
<nigelb> I noticed
<nigelb> I get the mails :)
<charlie-tca> sorry
<nigelb> nah
<charlie-tca> didn't mean to flood anyone
<nigelb> I subscribed to them out of my free will :)
<nigelb> and I have filters
<nigelb> so, its absolutely not a problem
<nigelb> I'm so glad someone's working on them
<charlie-tca> I just have issues with really old bugs that no one wants to touch
<hajour> ok i have to eat but i have a idea. for accessibility in classes. for to learn also from the sites .we can start in english thought. but what about vid. s with the lessons by example a program language  but then it is spoken .a recording with picture with it to see it also .so image with only program on it no very much lines with explain. to add on the pages where the lessons are on
<hajour> charlie-tca, , Pendulum , AlanBell  ^
<hajour> i read later back the responses .
<hajour> i have to eat till later
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-30
<Fudge> can anyone reproduce this:
<Fudge> i often get a webpage url from alt t, i which brings up the page info. but i need to push alt t, escape, alt t, i to get the box up. have to do it twice
<Fudge> when the install screen comes up on ubiquity, i hear a description about the slideshow, about a paragraph.
<TheMuso> Fudge: Interesting... Will have to test myself again later.
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-01-31
<Fudge> TheMuso  i believe its the slideshow screen directly after the user setup screen, unless user import appears but i have not seen that for a bit
<Fudge> question system problem  detected do you want to report it now. that popup never contains what crashed
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-02-01
<Fudge> when you tyupe into the dash, then try to review it only the first letter is read, for every character
<Fudge> type
#ubuntu-accessibility 2012-02-02
<TheMuso> qq/c
<Fudge> qq /c to u tto TheMuso 
<Fudge> :p
#ubuntu-accessibility 2013-02-02
<Fudge> mm
#ubuntu-accessibility 2019-02-01
<Fudge> howdy all
