#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-03
<MartijnVdS> Guest65540: nickserv problems? :)
<jacobw> Does Launchpad have issues with NoScript? I'm having trouble using the OpenID functions of Launchpad despite allowing Launchpad in NoScript
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea.. I stopped using noscript because it broke a lot of sites
<MartijnVdS> even whitelisted ones
<jacobw> I'm finding this
<dwatkins> Hi folks
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers gets new glasses today \o/
<daubers> and possibly new slippers
<dwatkins> and a cap and a volvo?
<daubers> No, I look silly in a cap
 * daubers goes to town
<issyl0> MartijnVdS: not any more :)
 * issyl0 speeds off out to London. Nothing interesting, though... :)
<MichealH> :/ Update Manager is a CPU Hogger...
<screen-x> morning all :)
<MichealH> Morning screen-x
<screen-x> + it appears to be #uksnowing
<screen-x> - I just got a bowl of cereal but the milk is off
<directhex> no snow here, thank feck
<screen-x> morning directhex :)
<hoover> mornin all, happy new year!
<directhex> it's *still* morning?
<screen-x> yep
<screen-x> \o hoover
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<bigcalm> Time to get ultra busy and to nothing
<screen-x> bigcalm: ?
<hoover> hey biggie
<kvarley> Is today a bank holiday?
<screen-x> yep
<kvarley> Ah ok
<bigcalm> s/to/do
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie
<screen-x> tomorrow is as well if you live in scotland..
<bigcalm> Damn lazy Scots ;)
<screen-x> bigcalm: if your going to do nothing, you might as well relax ;-)
<bigcalm> screen-x: still in bed with a laptop :D
<bigcalm> GF next to me, reading
<kvarley> That's lame, why don't we have a bank holiday tomorrow too :/
<bigcalm> Somebody has to do some work
<dwatkins> I live in Scotland and I'm working today and tomorrow.
<directhex> i'm working today
<brobostigon> morning all.
<screen-x> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning screen-x
<screen-x> should I put GCSEs/A levels on CV?
<brobostigon> screen-x: i do, as they re significant in my education.
<screen-x> hmm, that means I'll have to find them, as I can't remember how many GCSEs I got!
<brobostigon> screen-x: if it isnt significant or importent for the job the cv is intended for, or too old, iwouldnt stricktly put them.
<imexil> Hi, I'd like to test Unity with the help of VirtualBox 4.0. Problem is that testdrive doesn't like/know version 4.0. Is there any way to convince testdrive to use virtualbox 4.0
<brobostigon> screen-x: remember, you dont want to give them awhole essay to read, :)
<imexil> join /testdrive
<imexil> oops :)
<screen-x> brobostigon: Thanks :)
<brobostigon> screen-x: :) you're welcome.
<screen-x> AlanBell: glad you got it working, is unity usable in virtualbox?
<AlanBell> for small values of useable
<AlanBell> but only in vbox 4
<brobostigon> extra vat on beer,:(
<ali1234> oh wow, vbox 4 has multiple screen support in linux guests
<AlanBell> so it does, not quite sure why you would want that
<imexil> AlanBell: I was simply hoping for a quick and dirty solution and not having to install 11.04 yet.
 * imexil was just curious to what the fuzz about Unity is all about
<imexil> (it doesn't work under maverick so I thought testing it with natty would be an idea)
<AlanBell> well unity does work under maverick, but not with compiz
<imexil> Unfortunatly not really. I tried it (by first killing compiz and then loading unity) but failed utterly. It's not THAT important anyway but thought that exactly for this purpose testdrive would come in handy :)
<ali1234> you're really not missing anything, it's pretty far from being finished anyawy
<jacobw> I think might be the only one looking forward to Unity
<ali1234> can't say i'm looking forward to the inevitable drop in quality of classic gnome packages
 * brobostigon is looking forwrd  to gnome-shell
<ali1234> lol... about the only good thing i have to say about unity is "at least it's not gnome-shell"
<jacobw> I think GNOME Shell will be difficult for new users to pick up
<ali1234> why?
<jacobw> I think GNOME won't be able to resist trying to compete with KDE by making an interface that is really clever in theory but nobody can actually get in to using
<ali1234> the problem with gnome shell is it makes it infuriatingly difficult if you have a lot of windows open and you need to switc between them
<jacobw> Yeah, and that :p
<ali1234> in classic gnome you can do it with one click
<ali1234> in gnome shell you have to zoom out, find the window, click it a few times... ugh
<ali1234> but this isn't a problem that new users have
<jacobw> I pretty happy with classic GNOME to be honest
<brobostigon> ali1234: icanswitch between window in gnome-shell like normal. alt + tab.
<ali1234> alt+tab is not "normal"
<ali1234> and it's not good
<jacobw> I hope they maintain a 2D version of Unity
<ali1234> you have to press it multiple times all while watching out for thew window you want
<ali1234> by the time you've done that i've already clicked on the taskbar
<jacobw> I'm not sold using 3D graphics for the smallest thing
<ali1234> the great thing about the taskbar is that the windows don't move around
<ali1234> where as the alt-tab order constantly changes
<ali1234> if you are rapidly switching between three or four windows, it gets hopelessly confusing with alt+tab, and you really just have to ... alt+tab, check, alt+tab, check... constantly
<brobostigon> ali1234: hence why i use workspaces, so i dont need mess with load of windows in a single workspace.
<ali1234> yeah workspaces
<ali1234> i can switch to another workspace with one click
<ali1234> on gnome shell it takes several
<brobostigon> ali1234: ctrl + alt + (left right arrow) like normal to switch workspaces under gnome.shell, same as normal gnome.
<daubers> Afternoon
<ali1234> that can only take you to the next or previous workspace, or i can go to any workspace i want with one click
<brobostigon> ali1234: ye, but it works fine for me in both.
<gord> maybe i am biased, but i like unity :) honestly, turn on auto-hide and there isn't that much difference between unity and gnome-panel + global menu
<ali1234> 1. global menu sucks
<ali1234> 2. where's my taskbar?
<gord> ali1234, you are gonna want to use the classic desktop, you obviously don't want any changes at all, thats fine, thats why we have the classic desktop for you
<ali1234> i want changes
<ali1234> i want changes that make it better, not worse
<ali1234> this whole "well you obviously don't want changes" rhetoric is starting to piss me off a bit actually
<ali1234> just because i don't like the direction you are going, you assume that i don't want any change at all
<ali1234> this is nothing but a false dichotomy, to claim that the only alternative to what you are doing is to do nothing
<gord> well you don't seem to be contributing any other ideas, just a lot of complaining
<penguin42> gord: Many people agree with ali1234, it's unfair to blame him
<jacobw> I think ali1234 does usually provide an idea to go with his criticisms
<ali1234> it's true, i do complain a lot
 * daubers quite likes unity. Just a shame it's a bit freexzy on my laptop
<ali1234> actually, i do wonder why unity can't be just a gnome panel applet...
<daubers> If I boot it and leave it alone for 5 minutes or so, it just becomes unresponsive
<ali1234> except for the global menu thing... it doesn't really do anything that an applet can't do
<gord> global menu is an indicator, which can run in a global menu, its the dock and places that can't be panel applets. even then there are too many technical problems with the panel applet system, the api is plain awful and gnome-panel is about to become unmaintained
<penguin42> gord: Then someone is going to have to pick up maintainership
 * daubers ponders flattening his laptop today
<ali1234> so is unity going to support some new method for making applets?
<gord> unity supports indicators, which you can do quite a lot with
<gord> penguin42, if you want to pick up maintainership, be my guest
<ali1234> indicators only?
<gord> indicators only
<ali1234> indicators are buggy as hell, i hope you;re going to fix them...
<gord> patches welcome, this is a community distro
<gord> bug reports too
<gord> honestly, they are not buggy at all with me
<penguin42> gord: I'm happt to bugfix, unfortunately due to various reasons I can't take maintainership
<ali1234> bug 576032
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 576032 in indicator-sound (Ubuntu) "Second Icon doesn't update with multiple x-screens" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/576032
 * penguin42 sees what's happening at the moment is like the KDE3->KDE4 transition; KDE4.[012] was a disaster and is starting to be useful again; Gnome is going through the same thing now
<ali1234> this bug doesn't just affect indicator-sound though, it affects all indicator applets
<suprengr> o/ peeps
<ali1234> at least, any of the ones that actually display some information
<suprengr> ali1234: never seen you sear b4! ;D
<suprengr> *swear
<suprengr> on unity subject... last night I installed Docky.... wouldn't that have saved some good people doing hard work on Unity some time [as in set it vertically for UNE and leave choice for desktop]
<ali1234> perhaps... we could save even more work if we all just switched to OS X instead :)
<suprengr> ;D
<gord> huh, google chrome ads target linux specifically, interesting
<penguin42> they target everything
<ali1234> i doubt they have any specific code targeting it, beyond a generic OS check from the browser agent, and the fact that "linux" probably shows up a lot in your searches and emails...
<ali1234> i find it more interesting that the new adsense UI completely breaks if you have adblock+ installed
<ali1234> i'm sure they will update the filter rules soon enough though...
<jacobw> vbulletin needs a vim mode
<jacobw> it'd make using forums so much better
<Joeb454> jacobw: it'd be interesting, to say the least
<gord> jacobw, that vim extension for firefox not working for you?
<jacobw> gord: ahem, yes, i may overlooked that :p
<jacobw> may have even
<ball> I seem to be giving away Ubuntu discs at work.
<gord> \o/
<ball> Technically it's a firing offense, but if I happen to leave one in someone's disc drive ;-)
<jacobw> Why is it a firing offense?
<ball> jacobw: "non-approved tools" clause.
<Ferb> I have returned
<ball> Not for long though, it seems.
<Ferb> sorry, this IRC is really buggy
<Ferb> how do I de bug this IRC?
<MartijnVdS> "this irc" is nothing
<MartijnVdS> you probably mean your IRC client
<MartijnVdS> which one are you using?
<Ferb> fIRC for android
<MartijnVdS> get another app that works
<Ferb> no other app for my phone will do freenode
<hoover> cheers all
<ball> irc on a phone sounds painful.
<Ferb> yeah its painful alright
<Ferb> ball, yeah its painful
<suprengr>  oh boohga! it's snowin' again!
<directhex> noez :(
<Ferb> yay snow
<suprengr> snowBALLS to that!
 * ball to that
<Ferb> whats so bah humbug about snow
<suprengr> it's the driving from site to site in it - just so peeps can have atm's repaired
<suprengr> [up to 1000 miles/week!]
<Ferb> don't skid
<directhex> i can't skid. my car shuts down in snow or ice
 * ball misses field service
<suprengr> only skid marks I make might in under garments ;)
<suprengr> *might be
<Ferb> oh that is bad news
 * suprengr wonders how well he kept that polite
<Ferb> you did very well if you ask me
<suprengr> ;)
<Ferb> are you English?
<suprengr> thoroughbred!
<suprengr> born in W. london now in Gloucestershire
<Ferb> a what
<Ferb> oh I sew
<Ferb> see
<suprengr> [or should I say - born in lahdun guvnor... now in Glarstersheeeer
<Ferb> do you have a dog?
<suprengr> not since it got run over -why?
<MartijnVdS> he just ran over one 8-)
<Ferb> just wondering if you had any pets
 * Ferb thinks martiJVdS has a cat
 * MartijnVdS is petless
<suprengr> no - the bit where you go to the vet and have 'a friend' put down when some fool broke it's back puts me off any more
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: <distasteful comment ahead> It's practice for whan WW3 comes around
<MartijnVdS> when*
<suprengr> ouch!
<suprengr> ...but :D
<Ferb> I feel a punchline coming
<MartijnVdS> anyway, I know what it's like, though my pets died "without help"
<suprengr> MartijnVdS: life *is* better with a sense of humour, n'est pas?
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: it tends to be, yes
<Ferb> that is sad news :(
<suprengr> Ferb: no probs -it was years ago - never move to Swindon town centre for work with a full blown hunting dug
<suprengr> [dug = zumerzet for dog]
<MartijnVdS> heh
<MartijnVdS> hoonting dug
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vowel_Shift ;)
<Ferb> oh I see, I do however have a dog of my own
<suprengr> MartijnVdS: did you see that article... the "tongue lift" - my girlfriend in zumerzet lurved the "tongue lift" ;D
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: oh is that what they call it there ;)
<Ferb> but its not a hunting dog
<suprengr> [to make it even better it's under the paragraph "Effect"]
<MartijnVdS> Ferb: it's a lap dog? like all the supermodels have?
<suprengr> 'scuse me.. the police in Richmond Park [lahdun] begged to differ after it was feet from dropping a Crown deer!
<Ferb> well... its a household dog that did star in a few movies
<MartijnVdS> Ferb: a poodle then?
<directhex> poodles are hunting dogs.
<MartijnVdS> directhex: not when fully trimmed/groomed/suited up ;)
<Ferb> nope its a mix between two breeds
 * suprengr google Lurcher... but resists temptation yo point out it is a true crossbreed used by Gypsies & Travellers for hunting and guarenteeing food for keeper's belly.
<directhex> MartijnVdS, especially then. notice a groomed poodle has fur on its joints? keeps it warm when swimming
<suprengr> *to
<directhex> gun dog!
<suprengr> [had a poodle when a kid]
<directhex> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_dog
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keeshond then?
<suprengr> ..would also argue that yes... afull sized poodle is a hunting dog more than gun dog... but is brilliant at both
 * MartijnVdS isn't really a dog connoisseur
<Ferb> bye
<screen-x> would you have an interests section in a CV? or keep it strictly relevant?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: Depends on the place I'm sending it to
<MartijnVdS> I work at a very informal place now, so I included it
<MartijnVdS> of you expect full suits all the time, don't include it ;)
<screen-x> makes sense..
<suprengr> weeeeh!.. Dr. Who BBC1
<MartijnVdS> now?!
<MartijnVdS> oh christmas special
<suprengr> yup
<suprengr> [complete with Katherine Jenkins / Abigail's song
<suprengr> [& Micheal Gambon of course]
<daubers> Urgh, I really need a new USB stick. This ones had it
 * suprengr hands daubers a nice new stick [damn... forgot the USB bit was wanted as well]
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: you're like my mother at birthdays ;)
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: "But I thought you liked mice" "Computer mice mum"
<suprengr> :D
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<daubers> MartijnVdS: My dad used to tell us to find our christmas pressies in the argos catalogue, then we'd point out what we want, he'd rip out the picture and give that to us
<MartijnVdS> hah, that's cruel
<screen-x> daubers: harsh!
<MartijnVdS> didn't you "get wise" after a while though?
<suprengr> daubers: sounds much like a certain prog on BBC1 right now... are you hiding the fact that you are the Dr.?
<suprengr> .. Kazran more likely
<suprengr> ?
<ball> No spoilers please, some of us are five years behind.
<MartijnVdS> ball: http://www.bbcamerica.com/
<ball> MartijnVdS: Can't afford that.
<ball> That's only included in expensive cable TV packages.
 * MartijnVdS laughs at the quaint American TV system
<ball> MartijnVdS: If I put an ariel on my roof, I could probably get one or two "stations".  If I put it on top of the 10m tower that came with the house, I might be able to get six or more.
 * MartijnVdS laughs at the quaint American TV system some more
<ball> Almost everyone here has satellite or Cable TV.  They pay silly money for it too.
<MartijnVdS> You pay â¬20-ish for a basic package here
<MartijnVdS> +â¬20-50 if you want (semi-decent) internet
<ball> Basic cable is about US$ 30/month
<ball> Internet would be another US$ 30
<MartijnVdS> so about the same :)
<ball> Basic cable is a handful of channels in analogue SD only.
<ball> Doesn't include BBC America
<ball> The $30 Internet rate isn't advertised, but if you ask for it you get 1 Mbit/sec
<MartijnVdS> Ah, basic here includes ~20 analog channels, and 30 digital channels (mostly the same as analog) + HD versions of public TV (think BBC but Dutch)
<ball> Yeah, we don't get that.
 * MartijnVdS just gets satellite TV for â¬20/month, with ~500 channels :)
<ball> That said, now that terrestrial TV has gone analogue, I could probably get two or three "streams" (channels) from the local station.  Being PBS, they broadcast BBC news.
<MartijnVdS> (all of FreeSat, most non-Sky German and Austrian TV channels are "free", I get ~50 Dutch channels for that)
<ball> ...and some BBC content.
<MartijnVdS> I think they've gone digital, not analogue ;)
<ball> (which reminds me, I have some Inspector Lewis to watch)
<ball> MartijnVdS: erm... yes, they went from analogue to digital.
<ball> The US is backwards technically, but not *that* backwards ;-)
<MartijnVdS> What? They've invented basic sanitation now?! :P
<ball> MartijnVdS: Indoor plumbing and everything!
<MartijnVdS> wow.. too bad about the overhead wires though :)
<ball> MartijnVdS: Overhead wires for what?  Electricity?
<ball> Wow, VAT's going up?
<MartijnVdS> ball: yes, electricity.. we bury wires over here :)
<MartijnVdS> except in VERY rural areas
<ball> MartijnVdS: Probably makes more sense to have it up a pole here because the ground freezes pretty hard.
<ball> -20C for days on end.
<MartijnVdS> ball == santa?
<ball> brb
<MartijnVdS> "brb, getting the naughty/nice list for 2011 and marking you in the 'naughty' column"
<suprengr> Found thia [just announced via Ubuntu User newsfeed:] Ubuntu To Evaluate LibreOffice For Natty Narwhal... are falling out with OOO as well as Gnome??
<suprengr> *are we
<czajkowski> suprengr: not at all many are switching over to LO
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: no, the world fell out with OOo when Oracle bought Sun and did some not-so-nice things
<howefield> "falling out" is such a dramatic phrase
<czajkowski> does sum it up well though
<suprengr> is it good? [over-simplified question I know but have no experience of it]
<czajkowski> good god this diaspora thread is dragging on and on
<jacobw> indeed it is :s
<czajkowski> It's not an Ubuntu topic I know and while it does semi fall under oss/floss it's going on and on
<czajkowski> ask for invites off line or mail directly instead of to the list
<suprengr> ok .. so not "falling out". perhaps "changing direction" is more appropriate
<suprengr> [i thought it was  suggested the diaspora thread became separated?
<ball> I don't consider LibreOffice a change of direction.  I'm sticking with the developers! ;-)
<KrimZon> has anyone here recently resized ntfs partitions with gparted?
<KrimZon> hmm... actually, this shuffling around might be best done with most of the data copied to a removable drive
<suprengr> czajkowski: yet it's not found in package list? [using 10.04 here]
 * ball wanders off to the post office
<suprengr> ball you found enough brown paper to post an office?
 * suprengr goes to 10.10 partition to see if LO is in packages there... no talking behind my back please!  ;)
<daubers> Stupid "recovery" DVDs
<daubers> Be quicker to chew my own head off next time
<MartijnVdS> daubers: what's up with them? mine work fine
 * MartijnVdS has used a Sony recovery DVD and a Dell one
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Don't check the partition table, and don't check the boot records!
<MartijnVdS> daubers: no overwrite with your own!
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Might just replace it with a dd of the drive
<bosstje_> irc.freenode.net
<Azelphur> you are here ^
<suprengr> hokay.. worried now.  libreoffice not found in 10.04 packages nor 10.10 packages either.  It used to be that Ubuntu made available in prior editions anything coming up [e.g. Shotwell].  If a move to LibreOffice is being considered, should it not be in packages by now?
<moreati> suprengr: No. To my knowledge 10.04 and 10.10 will continue to use the OpenOffice version they shipped with. 11.04 will ship with LibreOffice 3.3
<suprengr> moreati: so the download to try to b4 we [don't] by is only from LO site?  Not a complaint... only a remark!
<DJones> suprengr: Have you checked the ppa's?
<popey> there is one
<popey> google + libreoffice + ppa + ubuntu finds it
<suprengr> thanks popey
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~libreoffice
<suprengr> popey: installing & trying now now... thanks again
<suprengr> [what 2x now?.. must still be watching Dr. Who... time travel!]
 * suprengr zzz's [ppa download sloooow]
<jacobw> Does anyone know if the plans to mothball Evolution in favour of Thunderbird have taken form?
<popey> which plan was that?
<jacobw> Yeah.. I may have conflated rumors with plans :p
<Laney> all too common
<jacobw> I'm probably guilty of it all too often
<suprengr> IMHO Evolution & Thunderbird as a combination is *the* best option - now & again clear gmail via ThunderB  for security- use Evo for storage.  Perfeck!
<jacobw> Come to think of it, with Ubuntu One, the default install is probably more tied to Evolution now than it was before with Contact sync
<suprengr> jacobw: the Thunderbird option was talked about - but for UNE only - not desktop. [as far as I am aware.]
<Nafallo> suprengr: there is no UNE anymore :-)
<suprengr> wot.. *no* netbook edition anymore... wad'I miss?
<marsilainen> is it just me, or does ubuntu seem not to come with a nice selection of fonts for creating title graphics etc?
<Nafallo> suprengr: unity as desktop default? :-)
<suprengr> ah now I understand.  Personally I stand by my guns & say *wrong*!  Why are so many good people doing very hard work when a modified Docky would have done it straight off?  [Vertical display for UNE & user chooses for desktop?
 * suprengr crys
<suprengr> *cries
<suprengr> [& no - I'm not going to join the Unity argument... my point is clear enough]
<suprengr> LibreOffice - install failed [despite claiming success... the "package install failed msg was a good clue ;) ... thank heavens for bleachbit :D
<ocean> hi guys. i have just installed ubuntu 10.10 64 bit on my hp dv6-3150sa laptop.installation was flawless. After restarting the first thing I did was to install the updates. a message poped up for a restricted driver for my graphic card, which i installed as well. When i restared my computer i found my desktop missing and its takin me to the command mode. can any one help pls
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-04
<Jora> hi
<ocean> guys can any one help me to restore grub with a lice cd. after an updating the ubuntu 10.10 i have lost the grub and computer says no operating system on boot up
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> I get the below issue
<kaushal> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/550086/
<kaushal> please suggest/guide
<shauno> hi kaushal; doesn't look like something I'd be familiar with, but you may like to try in #ubuntu  (just '/join #ubuntu' in most clients)
<shauno> 5am here, so not so many awake.  feel free to wait around, but be aware you'll find many more awake in there :)
<ali1234> (package pidgin-data 1:2.7.9-1ubuntu0+pidgin1 ) trying to overwrite '/usr/share/pixmaps/pidgin/protocols/16/facebook.png', which is also in package pidgin-facebookchat 1.67.1-1
<ali1234> that pidgin-data package is newer than the newest one in 10.10, so you must be using a ppa or something, and it is conflicting with the existing installed facebookchat plugin package
<ali1234> so your two choices are remove pidgin-facebookchat or stop using the ppa
<dwatkins> Good morning folks
<rickogden> happy new year everyone!
<diplo> Good Morning
<iggy_> morning all
<iggy_> anyone know how I can cat a file that starts with --?
<iggy_> # cat --panky.php
<iggy_> cat: unrecognised option `--panky.php'
<iggy_> Try `cat --help' for more information.
<iggy_> morning all
<iggy_> anyone know how I can cat a file that starts with --
<BigRedS> iggy_: what're you aiming for? If you want cat to output the file 'panky.php you want
<BigRedS> cat panky.php
<iggy_> the file is called --panky.php
<iggy_> I tried "--panky.php" \-\-panky.php
<dwatkins> iggy_: you could try escaping the characters, or using find's -exec option
<BigRedS> or   cat -- --panky.php
<iggy_> cool. -- --panky.php works
<BigRedS> the first '--' tells cat that nothing afterwards is an argument or an option, so it takes the '--' to be part of the filename
<iggy_> chers
<iggy_> cheers*
<BigRedS> (takes the second --, the one that is in teh filename, to be part of the filename)
<iggy_> will it work with rm?
<iggy_> as in rm -- --panky.php?
<BigRedS> quite probably, it's a fairly standard construct
<BigRedS> but not one I've had much need to use
<BigRedS> yeah, it just worked for me
<AlanBell> iggy_: that was an interesting question, never seen a file starting with -- before
<iggy_> AlanBell: I think it's a compromised server..
<AlanBell> ah, ick
<iggy_> as it's doing a phpinfo.. it was also hosting a lloyds tsb phishing site
<AlanBell> oh no :(
<iggy_> shared hosting = bad
<popey> iggy_: you cleaning it up?
<BigRedS> Especially when you're inadvertently sharing your hosting :(
<popey> iggy_: general consensus is that compromised boxes should be nuked from orbit
<AlanBell> php is kinda nice, but so dangerous
<popey> morning btw
<iggy_> popey: yes unfortunately it's hosting another couple of hundred sites
<BigRedS> popey: there are so many php-only exploits, though, that you can often be fairly sure that the attacker didn't get any further than dumping some files in wp-cache or wherever
<iggy_> I think it's a ftp password brute force
<iggy_> or a simple ftp password
<gord> back to work \o/
<JamesTait> Happy New Year, everyone! :D
<DJones> Morning
<screen-x> morning :)
<AlanBell> hi JamesTait
<AlanBell> everyone back at work?
 * screen-x is
<JamesTait> Hey AlanBell. :) Yeah, back to work today.
 * DJones is also back at work
<daubers> Morning
<kazade> Happy New Year all!
<kazade> I've started back at work faced with some of the most stupid "bugs" I've ever seen
 * kazade dusts off his CV
<daubers> Heh, I've just sent out the "Let me know if you want your replication servers to have a yearly checkup" email
<kazade> this bug is depressing... we basically moved the client side CMS stuff from FCKEditor -> TinyMCE before Xmas, one of the side effects was that pasting bullet points from Word now result in actual <ul><li> tags..
<kazade> which is of course the correct behaviour
<kazade> but this has added some spacing before the <ul> which the client doesn't like
<kazade> the thing is, the spacing looks MASSES better than what they had before
<kazade> so now I have to (yet again) make the website look worse
<screen-x> kazade: you've probably seen this already but http://theoatmeal.com/comics/design_hell
<kazade> screen-x, I have indeed :)
<screen-x> popey: where did you buy those microservers from?
<screen-x> http://www.misco.co.uk/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=483839
<screen-x> er wrong window :p
<diplo> screen-x, http://www.it247.com/product/1/XXHSUK23/612275-421-HP-ProLiant-MicroServer-Dual-Core-1-3Ghz-AMD-Athlon-II.html
<diplo> Bookmarked the link when I looked the other day
<screen-x> diplo: thanks :)
<brobostigon> morning all.
<popey> screen-x: it247
<popey> http://www.it247.com/
<popey> its on their front page
<screen-x> popey: thanks :)
<popey> np
<Ferb> I have returned
<Ferb> martijnvds, whats the phrase from the game that starts with "i have returned"
<screen-x> What would cause ntpd to loose association with another time server? http://paste.ubuntu.com/550174/
<popey> ferb == phineas.
<DJones> Yep
<MartijnVdS> Ferb: Starcraft - Dragoon unit
<MartijnVdS> (protoss)
<gord> Ferb, the singluar of the plural Ferbies
<andatche> gah, update-motd is utter bollocks
<andatche> I *really* wish it wasn't included by default in ubuntu server
<andatche> such a pain to actually disable properly too
<gord> i like it
<gord> shows me neat stuff when i ssh in
<andatche> it shows mostly pointless stuff that I can find easily *if I want* while slowing each login down by a couple of seconds
<BigRedS> there's nothing like quickly logging in to a box to fix something, and waiting to find out if some unrelated pdf library needs updating
<andatche> exactly
<andatche> I wouldn't mind if it was easy to disable, but it's closely tied into login by using pam now
<andatche> what an awful mess
<andatche> would help if the documentation for update-motd was anywhere near up to date :(
<KrisDouglas> Hello, I have a quick question. Every time  ubuntu boots the volume maxes out, is there a way to make it retain the volume between reboots? The sound is deafening when i forget.
<czajkowski> ALOHA :D
 * BigRedS is deafened
<MartijnVdS> HOWDY
 * screen-x wakes up and drinks some tea
<MartijnVdS> \o screen-x
<screen-x> hi MartijnVdS
<X3N> mooo
<dwatkins> KrisDouglas: I believe it should save the volume at shutdown, if it's not, then you could always run a script to decrease it at login, although this sounds like a bug (or a hardware issue)
<gord> KrisDouglas, the obvious solution would just be to turn off the login sounds ;)
<KrisDouglas> Sounds like a bug to me
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<X3N> bloody Dlock has got stuck on my bike, most useless of it
<BigRedS> Isn't that what it's designed to do? :)
<bigcalm> Making the bike unuseable?
<X3N> not when it's not connected to anything else ;)
<BigRedS> ahhh
<BigRedS> *sometimes* a couple of 'taps' with a hammer while putting pressure on the key will free a slightly-jammed barrel
<BigRedS> or maybe just a bunch of penetrating lube, like wd40 or gt85
<X3N> yeah maybe, I have a feeling water got into it and froze as it stopped working when it was snowing out
<BigRedS> ahhh, out with the kettle then!
<X3N> and the train prices are now edging towards eye watering
<BigRedS> (also, if it's the sort where teh locking happens to both ends of the shackle, make sure anything you do to the lock you also do to both ends of the shackle, some aren't as directly-connected as they could be)
<KrisDouglas> I suppose so, i quite liked it though
<awilkins> Do train fares attract VAT?
<X3N> don't think so
<awilkins> They're damn ridiculous anyway
 * dwatkins agrees with awilkins 
<popey> no, they dont
<X3N> just one more reason as to why I'm going to move house
<awilkins> I've been catching a lift from wifey and our monthly fuel is less that my railcards used to be
<awilkins> For both of us
<awilkins> Putting about Â£50 a week in the tank - will be less now she's upgraded to a new diesel car
<awilkins> 'tis awesome, runs to about 500-600 miles a tank so far
<awilkins> They went up something stupid like 12% last year
<awilkins> Profiteering bastards
<screen-x> Bought a single domain SSL certificate in December for 35USD from godaddy, now they want 38GBP for the same thing :(
<screen-x> found promo code, now Â£9.77 \o/
<BigRedS> that's a bit of a discount :)
<screen-x> saving the NHS money by browsing teh tubes :)
 * awilkins puts screen-x on his "fellow NHS drone" list
<screen-x> awilkins: I'm not so much of drone, more of rebel linux user..
<awilkins> Heh, likewise
<awilkins> We have a hardware audit in a few weeks
<screen-x> awilkins: do you know of any other NHS departments that use ubuntu desktops?
<awilkins> Well, there's the department of me.
<screen-x> \o/
<awilkins> I don't know of anyone who uses it officially
<danfish> 9
<awilkins> We have an ubuntu server here too
<awilkins> (yes, that was me too)
<screen-x> :)
<screen-x> which trust/lhb/whatever they're called at the moment are you in?
<awilkins> NHS CfH
<awilkins> ("the IT programme")
<screen-x> CfH... how's that going these days?
<awilkins> Specifically the "Data Standards & Products" dept
<awilkins> Man, if the mire of crap I'm in is any indication....
<awilkins> I'm going to have to hide my desktop for three days at the end of the month as it is to stop the hardware audit revealing that I'm an evil subversive
<screen-x> heh
<awilkins> I may even have to remove the extra 4GB of RAM I installed surreptitiously because we have no official 64-bit OS, ergo we have no use for more than 3GB of RAM.
<awilkins> And because we have no use for 3GB of RAM, we're migrating to the 32-bit version of Win7, yay.
<danfish> awilkins: did you have to buy that ram yourself?
<awilkins> danfish, Yes. Can't get it via procurement because there's no point installing more than 3GB of RAM because we have no 64-bit OS :-)
<awilkins> Need it for the project I'm on though
<screen-x> awilkins: you bought RAM for your work desktop with your own cash?
<popey> thats surprisingly common
<awilkins> screen-x, The second time I've done it
<popey> I know people in the private sector who do that too
<awilkins> Once before at a commercial employer
<awilkins> Bought a 512MN SODIMM
<awilkins> We had a CEO who's attitude was that developers machines should be crap because the software should run well on crap machines
<screen-x> awilkins: :(
<awilkins> And an accountant who thought 8 web blades were an adequate replacement for a multicore DB server
<awilkins> (cos they were on special, 'natch)
<awilkins> Developers should get the behemoth beastie boxes because they run the software AND the IDE AND a server, usually
<popey> they should also get a test box which is the lowest common denominator
<awilkins> (AND all the AV crapware, AND the snoopware, AND the encrypted FS containing zero confidential data)
<popey> and be forced to test on that before release :)
<danfish> it's how the NHS is going to be run from now on - you can do that operation, but did you remeber to bring in your scalpel from home? :D
<awilkins> The NHS have externalized their labour costs for as long as I can remember - depending on the goodwill of their clinical staff to do unpaid overtime.
<screen-x> "Charity Time"
<awilkins> Believe me, the Â£50 I spent on the RAM was worth the reduction in swapping. I  must have spent about Â£50 worth of my time on the futile procurements process trying to get it through normal channels (unsuccessfully). And they'd overbill for it anyway.
<awilkins> One of those stupid ICT contracts where they charge you through the arse for everything
<screen-x> awilkins: Hmm If I can't get something through procurement, I bug someone high up enough to have a credit card..
<awilkins> I waited 13 weeks for a VB6 audit program once - I did most of the things it would have done for me in the time I waited for it. And because it wasn't available from an "approved" supplier, they had to get one to buy a copy, tack 10% onto the price, and send it onward.
<awilkins> all of which emphasises my policy of "use OSS wherever possible even if there are commercial alternatives"
<danfish> 10%? That's relatively cheap! Our lot normally mark up by at least 25%
<awilkins> Currently spreading the infection by getting my colleague to my left to use Bazaar for version control
<awilkins> 'cause it interoperates nicely with SVN which is the "official" VCS for the project
<danfish> as far as I see it, the main problem for OSS in the public sector is "who do I blame when it goes wrong?"
<danfish> but then again, who complains to MS when their excel spreadsheet gets corrupted?
<screen-x> Its such a crap argument, you look bad, even if it is your contractors fault rather than yours direclty.
<awilkins> danfish, When they cancelled the MS Office contract, I thought we should just spend some fraction of the millions we must have spent on it on a fork of LibreOffice - with it's own support dept and developers
<awilkins> By "fork" I mean "thinly reskinned copy that contributes all it's patches back"
<danfish> awilkins: ahhh.....I have heard some rumours...
<popey> its not about who to blame in a "fix this" sense, it's about who to blame in a "who can I sue" sense
<BigRedS> screen-x: yes, but it's nice if you can extract some money from your contractors as compensation for looking bad :/
<awilkins> danfish, Hopefully I had something to do with them...
<danfish> popey: exactly
<awilkins> BigRedS, I'm willing to bet that the cost of contract wrangling exceeds the compensation... if there is any
<BigRedS> awilkins: Yup. I've been on the sidelines of those sorts of decisions
<awilkins> I like the "get it fixed" way better than the "blame _them_" way
<bigcalm> Since writing my url shortener I can see that most usage of URLs pasted in to twitter and facebook are by bots
<bigcalm> Dull but factual
<awilkins> But I'm just a humble engineer with a vocational investment in solving problems rather than arguing about who's fault they are
<BigRedS> But it's not really a cost:benefit sort of argument, just that some diktat rules that all software must have someone we can expect to fix it, and if they can't fix it we can have some money
<davmor2> hello all and happy new year including czajkowski prod
<danfish> without getting too political, the new GP consortia being setup are going to be run on a shoestring, and certainly in my patch, libre/openoffice is going to be prominent :)
<BigRedS> I always found it laughable that we'd pay for MS software and then have to pay on top for support, and on top again to *use* the support.
<danfish> davmor2: she's back in the UK don't you know ;)
<awilkins> danfish, You can tell me how much you'd pay for support contracts and what you'd expect in return  ...
<awilkins> danfish, If enough of you fancy it, I might have a "out" of this dump..... "Adrian's super-duper NHS Office support Ltd."
<davmor2> danfish: I've said it before and I'll say it again She was closer in Ireland :D
<danfish> awilkins: I've been having similar thoughts recently
<danfish> davmor2: but I thought you were going to get border control to not let her back in :P
<davmor2> danfish: no that was popey
<screen-x> "welcome $USERNAME please log in" #fail
<dwatkins> awilkins: you're going to run a free health check service?
<awilkins> dwatkins, Only if you're a young attractive redheaded gymnastic atheist geekgurl. </misogyny>
<awilkins> Otherwise, my GMC registration slipped years ago and I've not practiced in over a decade
<dwatkins> awilkins: heh, I meant a computer health check service
<awilkins> "Your computer is running Windows. This is unhealthy."
<dwatkins> I suppose you could replace windows with ubuntu for a lot of people, and it might in theory be easier (i.e. cheaper) to support them, but you would need to be certain of a few things beforehand.
<awilkins> Well, yes
<awilkins> The major problem is all the software from little suppliers that people have got used to
<awilkins> I don't think it's realistic to migrate most of the GP market to Linux just yet
<dwatkins> I was reading recently about someone who supports their entire village and buys hardware on their behalf, in theory it could work quite well if you also chose their hardware to be compatible with ubuntu and they just used their machines for web browsing
<dwatkins> yeah, I imagine most doctors use custom software with patient records etc.
<dwatkins> I know someone used to support a bunch of surgeries in Berkshire and he was guaranteed work because they used NetWare
<danfish> awilkins: clinical systems definitely not practical, but admin stuff certainly possible
<dwatkins> If you could setup a place from scratch it might be feasible, but people miht prefer to use windows as they're used to it already
<awilkins> In terms of Office, the main problem will be i) Things not formatting quite right ii) VBA macros iii) Access applications
<danfish> dwatkins: they do, and they are actually quite good, but horribly proprietary, but some of the suppliers are starting to embrace open standards
<awilkins> For which you have a Python macro "clinic"
<popey> iv) office integration in large ERP applications
<popey> e.g. SAP
<awilkins> ah, yes
<awilkins> Not much xp with SAP
<awilkins> My old firm's cashcow product is a pharmacy management system written in VB3
<awilkins> Can't even upgrade Window because it needs the 16-bit compatibility layer to run :-)
<danfish> at least my local IT department have banned the use of .docx (the reason being they admit they may need to move to openoffice)
<TheAshMan> whats the best/easiest way to migrate MySQL to a new server?
<popey> TheAshMan: mysqldump
<TheAshMan> popey, including users/privileges and such?
<popey> that will dump the entire databases
<popey> mysqldump --all-databases > dump.sql
<awilkins> danfish, OpenOffice doesn't seem to have too many problems with docx now
<TheAshMan> popey, I thought that only dumped data for the databases and not the databse users?
<popey> its all in the db innit?
<popey> lunchtime!
<awilkins> I must admit, my experience is limited with all Office programs simply because I avoid them like the plague and use text files wherever possible
<popey> dump it out and take a look at the plain text sql file
<TheAshMan> good plan! Enjoy lunch!
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pxZfAywqno # am I bored?
<danfish> awilkins: I know, but I'm not going to tell them :D
 * czajkowski stabs davmor2 
<davmor2> prods czajkowski with a multi-ended prodding stick
<czajkowski> AlanBell: not coming to rugby meet up!
<screen-x> davmor2: a single ended prodding stick would be interesting..
<daubers> screen-x: Maybe there is a useful tool on the non prodding end?
<DJones> Doesn't a multi-ended prodding stick just mean that czajkowski can just push back & prod davmor2 without needing her own stick
<czajkowski> :D
<victorp> hi all - does anyone know if there is a EMEA memership board meeting today? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<victorp> as it is the 1st tuesday of the month (and the year)!
 * popey edits that page
<AlanBell> czajkowski: that will expose my supreme lack of knowledge of all things sporting
<BigRedS>  /me assumed from the subject line that this was a meet in Rugby
<BigRedS> perhaps erroneously
<AlanBell> more to the point, I might have a birthday party to go to with jelly and ice cream
<BigRedS> Jelly + Ice cream beats rugby
<screen-x> mmm jelly
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yes but it's about the socalising
<screen-x> Grr this form is annoying, "address line 2" is limited to 8 chars, and "address line 3" is limited to 3 chars!
<czajkowski> popey: busy meeting tonight !
<danfish> talking of meetings, when the next loco IRC meeting?
<screen-x> ah yes the topic is out of date
<davmor2> DJones, screen-x: multiple prody ends on czajkowski side my end has a handle you muppets
<Ferb_> hi all
<bigcalm> ...
<davmor2> DJones: harsh, funny but harsh :)
<bigcalm> popey: In light of the delay, we've credited your graze account with Â£2.99 to replace it for you.
<Ferb_> graze?
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> graze is a nuts box
<andylockran> and other bitty things
 * BigRedS is going to FOSDEM
 * MartijnVdS doesn't know yet
<czajkowski> me tooo!!!
<MartijnVdS> ooh, #-uk meetup? :)
<BigRedS> whoop!
<Ferb_> I notaced
<MartijnVdS> \o/ free rail travel inside .nl, and cheap rail travel in .be for me ;)
<Ferb_> lucky
<DJones> Ferb_: You were asked to come back on Friday to discuss removal of the quiet against you, please leave the channel and wait until Friday to discuss the issue.  Joining this channel won't help with being allowed to take part in future
<MartijnVdS> Ferb_: no, boss pays :)
<popey> too late :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: aww :)
<popey> bridges burned
<daubers> Anyone bought any of these from Maplins? http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=36796
<popey> wonder if thats the one tony has
<bigcalm> Seems a bit excessive to transport a red and black ribbon
<BigRedS> daubers: I've had a couple of the smaller ones of those
<BigRedS> used to use them to move backup tapes around
<BigRedS> surprisingly tough for the money
<daubers> I want one for some models
<daubers> Any idea if the foam is in layers?
<BigRedS> Er, IIRC, two layers and in columns
<BigRedS> so you can remove to 1/2 depth in about 10mmx10mm squares
<BigRedS> or to full depth
<BigRedS> but nothing in between
<BigRedS> yeah, 'cause one box had cutouts for the tapes to be flat, and the others vertical
<daubers> Hmmm..
<daubers> Wonder if you can get the foam anywhere
<daubers> as the one without foam in is Â£15 cheaper
<popey> http://www.terralec.co.uk/hardware/covering_and_lining/227_0c.html
<MartijnVdS> sure, you can get foam in lots of places
<popey> first hit :)
<MartijnVdS> All kinds of foam (firmer, softer, ...)
<dwatkins> I'd go for firmer foam for certain things, the stuff in there looks like the soft stuff which isn't so useful.
<daubers> Would then need to cut it with a hot wire though
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yes, but then I'd also use softer foam when it seemed more useful 8-)
<dwatkins> true, MartijnVdS
<daubers> also, foam seems to be ~Â£15 anyway
<daubers> Might just go home via maplins this evening and have a poke
<daubers> Why are flight cases so poxy expensive!
<bigcalm> Because you don't shop at lidl
<AlanBell> we got some flight cases from maplins with tearout foam
<AlanBell> in fact daubers it is that model
<AlanBell> it isn't hot wire, it is pre-cut nearly all the way through
<bigcalm> Can anybody point me at how to set up ssh keys for use with rdiff in cron?
<bigcalm> rdiff-backup that is
<popey> i use rsnapshot and i suspect it's much the same
<AlanBell> daubers: that foam is totally worth it, it is 1cm squares and you just tear them out to make the shapes you want
<popey> bigcalm: i have a server which does rsnapshot over ssh to remote boxes. I generated an ssh key with ssh-keygen on the server with _no_ passphrase
<AlanBell> bigcalm: log in as the user you want the cron job to run as and set them up as normal
<popey> bigcalm: then copied that to the root ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on each remote box
<bigcalm> I see
<popey> bigcalm: then backup using root@remotehost
<popey> i checked with people who know more than me about these things whether this was wise, and they say its about the only sane way to do it
<bigcalm> As the key is only available to the root user
<AlanBell> popey: we are doing that but to a regular user, not to a root account
<AlanBell> the cronjob runs as root on the thing being backed up, but it logs in as clientname@backupserver.whatever
 * bigcalm nods
<daubers> AlanBell: Ta. Not sure if it will suit my purpose though
<bigcalm> It's pleasing to get thank you emails from clients
<DJones> bigcalm: That means you mustn't have billed them as much as they were prepared to pay
<popey> my job runs as a regular user, but it ssh's as root@
<bigcalm> Does ubuntu disable ssh to root by default?
<bigcalm> I recall some distros do
<popey> not with keys
<bigcalm> Ok
<popey> we dont have a root password on ubuntu :)
<popey> (pedants can go to /dev/null)
<bigcalm> There is that ;)
<AlanBell> popey: why are you doing that?
<popey> why to which bit al?
<popey> AlanBell:
<AlanBell> vs doing it to a regular account?
<popey> because I want to backup the whole box
<popey> not just the data
 * AlanBell ponders
<AlanBell> oh, I get it, you are pulling rather than pushing
<popey> yes
<popey> i pull from 6 or so separate boxes to my central box
<AlanBell> ok, we have the cronjob on the other side pushing
<AlanBell> it runs as root so it can see the whole box, but it pushes to a regular user account
<popey> gotcha
<popey> i prefer to control the backups centrally
<AlanBell> it is also on a theoretically dynamic IP address, so it could move about
<popey> http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/boxee_arrives_on_new_NAS_box_its_not_ugly.php   ooooo
<andylockran> looking for a web-based dns management tool for bind9 - any suggestions ?
<popey> webmin? :)
<bigcalm> webmin \o/
<andylockran> thanks :)
<victorp> popey - thanks for updating the page
<victorp> popey - I noticed that the list of applications to review still showing the ones that you already looked at last month. I think peppe84 was the last that got reviewed
<popey> will take a look
<bigcalm> rdiff-backup does take a while on 52gb of data, even after a full transfer
<gord> its a wonderful feeling to realise that after you spent all day re-installing your os that you installed 32bit instead of 64bit accidently =\
<X3N> doh
<krimzon2> i did rdiff-backup on 200GB of data last night and it took about 90 minutes
<mfraz74> lol
<mfraz74> did my first 64bit install recently
<krimzon2> if there's only minor changes it's usually about 20 min, but I'd added tons of stuff
<mfraz74> is anyone else getting remount errors with ext4 in ubuntu 10.10?
 * BigRedS is still scared of ext4
<mfraz74> only happens just after booting has finished
<bduncan> Hey. does anyone know a way to measure the power consumption of a USB device in linux? Nothing seems to be exported through /sys/bus/usb/... or lsusb. My google-fu has also failed.
<daubers> AlanBell: Those cases... are they layered in foam? i.e., could I get a piece of flat foam out of a packaging crate here and put it between the layers
<bduncan> mfraz74: yes, but it's just a remount. there's no error in my logs
<gord> bduncan, powertop? not sure if it lists explicit usb devices though
<mfraz74> bduncan: I see it for all partitions in dmesg
<AlanBell> daubers: there is a thin layer of toughish foam at the base, then the main bit of tearout foam which is all finger sized columns then the foam in the lid
<daubers> Hmmm... I'll probably end up getting one and then getting some inserts from somewhere else (as it's still cheaper than getting a case designed for this purpose stupidly enough)
<Laney> bah
<bduncan> gord: it does list individual devices (in dump mode) but only reports their duty cycle, not power. i don't think it's possible without some electronical hackery. heh, sounds like fun
<AlanBell> yup, it is a massively cheaper case than some of them
<Laney> silly GP catchment areas
<popey> bduncan: what kind of usb device?
<bduncan> popey: i'm mostly curious about my shiny new android phone and my wireless mouse receiver
<davmor2> prods czajkowski shorts new years resolution ever I think :P  Oh wait no it was yours for me,  fancy breaking your own nyr :D
<popey> plug the mains adapter into a watt meter, see what it draws without the device plugged in, and with
<bduncan> popey: yeah that would probably work, but i suspect the power is so small as to be unnoticable with one of those
<popey> probably, yes
<popey> apparently you can do this in windows :S
<popey> http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/43811/
<bduncan> yeah i was afraid of that! so the hardware must be reporting it somehow...
<popey> somewhere in proc? or sys?
<AlanBell> daubers: replacing the foam would work fine, or you can cut the existing foam with wire or knife
<bduncan> although i haven't actually tried that, since i don't have any windows, but it's possible that it just displays the max power value from the descriptor and omits the word "max" :)
<daubers> AlanBell: True. Though if I get them sans foam (the toolbox variety) and then get the foam from the pre cut place, it's the same price as with the picking foam to begin with :)
<screen-x> daubers: so it depends how good the foam is from each..
<screen-x> seems like some highly scientific prodding is needed
<daubers> screen-x: :p
<bduncan> mfraz74: i think i have found a possible reason: /usr/lib/pm-utils/power.d/journal-commit is called when the power state changes (like (un)plugging the AC) and changes the journal commit time on each partition.
<mfraz74> bduncan: I had read that somewhere, but didn't think it would be relevant to a desktop computer
<AlanBell> daubers: what are you putting in the case? I would be surprised if the tearout foam wouldn't just work
<bduncan> mfraz74: no perhaps not
<AlanBell> it doesn't have to be an exact fit, just close enough and a bit smaller and the foam will hold the object in place
<daubers> AlanBell: Warhammer miniatures
<daubers> AlanBell: Lots of them
<AlanBell> toy soldiers :)
<AlanBell> yup, tearout foam would work great
<daubers> Yup :)
<bigcalm> 5 mins for rdiff-backup to sync 52gb of data with nothing new transfered. I can live with that
<dwatkins> Sometimes backups are faster if you walk then if you use a cable.
<bigcalm> dwatkins: it's an hour drive between here and my parents' place
<bigcalm> I like do-nothing-backups
<bigcalm> That's their home dir
<bigcalm> 96gb of photos needs to be synced next
<dwatkins> ah I see, bigcalm
<dwatkins> what kind of connection is between you, internet with ADSL from different companies, cable, different ISPs, etc.?
<bigcalm> Parents have 10mb Sky ADSL
<bigcalm> I have 20mb VirginMedia cable
<dwatkins> I can see that being problematic. I should sign-up for bethere, I gather they can give far better bandwidth than BT themselves.
 * bigcalm shrugs
<bigcalm> The full backup only happens once
<bigcalm> With rdiff-backup, it only transmits what has changed
<dwatkins> ah, that's alright then
<dwatkins> yeah, makes sense
<bigcalm> Yeah, my dad had to put up with dead slow interwebs for 5ish days for the 52gb transfer
<dwatkins> I was thinking of the setup I was considering having with a terabyte synced between sites 400 miles apart, but then we moved in together...
<bigcalm> For the 96gb I'm going to turn it on and off over night so he can use it in the day
<dwatkins> The price of redundancy.
<krimzon2> ahh, my backups were only to a usb drive
<bigcalm> That used to be the case at my parents' place
<bigcalm> Then my Dad woke up
<dwatkins> Woke up to RAW photos on his DSLR?
<bigcalm> He wishes he had a dslr
<bigcalm> Heh
<dwatkins> I guessw you should be glad christmas is over, bigcalm - otherwise you might have a lot more to backup soon...
<bigcalm> ?
 * daubers goes to Maplins
<bigcalm> -s
<dwatkins> Maplin's?
<bigcalm> Maplin
<dwatkins> indeed
<bigcalm> One can go to Maplin or Tesco
<bigcalm> One does not visit Maplins or Tescos
<dwatkins> How about Sainsbury?
<gord> hehe, this statement from bt made me giggle "BT supports the concept of net neutrality, but believes that service providers should also be free to strike commercial deals, should content owners want a higher quality or assured service delivery."
<bigcalm> That's Sainsbury's
<screen-x> gord: We believe in principles, but will ignore them for cash
<gran> how do i install xvid on ubuntu?
<Azelphur> gran if you just open the video in the default player, if you don't have the codec it should automatically download it.
<Azelphur> so you don't really need to do anything for xvid or any other codec support
<gran> "The requested plugins are:
<gran> application/x-gzip decoder"
<Azelphur> lol what does that have to do with xvid
<Azelphur> gran what website is it?
<gran> a movie website :)
<gran> watch-movies.net.in
<Azelphur> gran: works for me *shrug*
<Azelphur> try a different browser
<gran> both firefox and google say "We're sorry, our content is not compatible with your computer configuration."
<Azelphur> gran why do you keep changing the problem description? :/
<Azelphur> you keep giving me completely different errors for completely different problems
<Azelphur> I can't help with something that continually changes
<Azelphur> also, that's not a real XviD stream and watching XviD does not require a download - it's probably a trojan. Feel lucky it's not compatible ;)
<jacobw> Are there any other DuckDuckGo users here?
<ocean> hi guys. I have recently installed ubuntu 10.10 on my HP dv6 3150 sa. i have got two problems to sort out. the first one is the grub is being deleted very often(installed on mbr) and i have to manually install grub back onto the mbr with live cd.  the only reason what i can figure it out is probably the HP_TOOLs partition is deleting the grub. the reason why i am saying is that the grub got deleted once after accidently mounting the hp-tool partition. and
<ocean>  during the next start up it said no OS found
<xnox> ocean, support channell is #ubuntu. You can install grub onto partition and use e.g. hp/windows bootloader to chain into grub's
<Azelphur> xnox: this is a support channel too
<xnox> Azelphur, sorry didn't know. #debian-uk isn't support channell =) my bad
<Azelphur> hehe np :p
<ocean> xnox, can u help me giving some more details. i am not a skilled ubuntu user
<ali1234> it could be that issue where adobe licence manager in windows deletes grub
<ali1234> could be HP-TOOLS too i guess
<ocean> ali1234, is there any fix for ir
<ocean> it
<ali1234> ocean: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/ucgi/~cjwatson/blosxom/debian/2010-08-28-windows-applications-making-grub2-unbootable.html
<daubers> AlanBell: Picked up one of those cases
<daubers> If I can rig together a hot wire I can cut the foam into 2 or three levels I reckon
<AlanBell> great
<ocean> ali1234, tx let me have a read
<ocean> ali1234, thanks a lot. i cant figure out the fix though. can u help. i tried fdisk -lu and it wouldnt return me any outpuy
<ocean> output
<ali1234> the page doesn't describe a fix unfortunately
<ali1234> just how to collect the debuggin information describe by the developer
<ali1234> try looking at the linked bug reports too
<marsilainen> is there a good source of info on what hardware works / doesn't work with suspend?
<marsilainen> I want to buy a new slimline desktop pc
<marsilainen> I'm desperate to ensure that it works with suspend to ram correctly
<marsilainen> since my current machine doesn't
<marsilainen> thinking of something like: http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00457WT4Y/ref=asc_df_B00457WT4Y1678142?smid=A3J0NC2R65XHPW&tag=googlecouk06-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22218&creativeASIN=B00457WT4Y
<andylockran> czajkowski: you around?
<andylockran> czajkowski: I am a complete idiot.  Was at Rugby nr Weybridge on Sunday and completely forgot to let you know.
<xnox> andylockran, based on the logs from debian-uk she was in belgium....
<xnox> #debian-uk @ OFTC
 * xnox can be wrong and I don't really know her.
<popey> she is in a meeting
<popey> .75
<popey> bah
<czajkowski> xnox: nope I'm in the UK !
<xnox> czajkowski, my bad =) misunderstood #debian-uk logs about how you couldn't get flights to somewhere from somewhere.....
<xnox> czajkowski, andylockran sorry for confusion
<czajkowski> xnox: ah no worries that was problem re fosdem
<andylockran> popey: .75?
<DJones> andylockran: .75 calibre anti-troll gun?
<popey> nvm
<xnox> czajkowski, that's so cool that you get to go to fosdem/uds etc =) I haven't been in-person to FLOSS events yet =)
<czajkowski> xnox: yes I have been rather fortunate
<czajkowski> xnox: also work now sends me to FOSDEM
 * xnox thinks he is dreaming..... somebody ping me
<xnox> czajkowski, that's cool =)
<zleap> hi all
<mgdm> popey: what do you use to power that short URL thing you have?
<popey> bit.ly pro
<mgdm> ah
 * mgdm considers wiring mgdm.eu up to that
<popey> :)
<awilkins> Wowzer, this "thrift" stuff is pretty nifty
<awilkins> Just shaved 3 seconds off a 73 second DB conversion run ... and 64MB off a 204MB disk footprint
<awilkins> Much smaller DB 4tw
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-05
<bigcalm> Which /etc/ files tells you what version of ubuntu is installed?
<bigcalm> s/files/file
<bigcalm> lsb-release ?
<howefield> lsb_release will tell
<bigcalm> Parents' server is running 9.04. Wondering if I attempt a remote distupgrade or not
<bigcalm> Would be happier if it were on an LTS
<jacobw> is it lsb-release?
<bigcalm> On 10.04: # ls /etc/lsb*
<bigcalm> /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh  /etc/lsb-release
<bigcalm> On 9.04: $ ls /etc/lsb*
<bigcalm> /etc/lsb-base-logging.sh  /etc/lsb-release
<bigcalm> Erm
<bigcalm> Ignore me
<jacobw> yeah it is, i've just checked, was thinking about /etc/debian_version
<bigcalm> Doh, there is the command lsb_release
<bigcalm> That's what was confusing me
<ali1234> hackers in my vps :(
<Azelphur> it's more likely than you think :(
<ali1234> someone decided to convert their website to e107 and it got exploited by a bot
<ali1234> then the bot owner installed rapidshare leech and downloaded 50GB in 2 days
<Azelphur> ouch
<ali1234> it normally seems about 500MB traffic per month :/
<Azelphur> that's quiet :o
<Azelphur> My dedi has used 1.1TB this month
<ali1234> yeah, it only has some crummy websites on it, it's not actually mine - just get called when something goes wrong
<ali1234> "why are we getting charged for extra bandwidth?"
<Azelphur> hehe :)
<JohnThomson> Hi, anyone here wanting to help the Linux community in possibly a very major way, please contact me about volunteer work, data mining, in exchange for free website hosting and email hosting. Basically, we are trying to convert the UK Government and, ultimately, the uk population, to Ubuntu, or at least, Linux. Email me at "mail@johnthomson.me.uk"
<JohnThomson> Thanx
<ali1234> JohnThomson: data mining?
<ali1234> ... and we're back in business
<ali1234> i wonder how long it will take mr website designer guy to notice his login doesn't work any more
<dwatkins> One million seconds.
<Azelphur> exactly.
<lazarus_> hoping i may have fixed my bsod issue
<kaushal> hi
<kaushal> Good Morning Everyone
<kaushal> Can someone recommend any good apps for 10.10 ?
<BigRedS> kaushal: what sort of apps?
<kaushal> for desktop use ?
<BigRedS> to do what with, though? I can reccomend Claws-mail, vim, terminator and openarena if you like...
<MartijnVdS> sure, but what do you want to do with them?
<BigRedS> but it's likely that none of them are what you're after
<MartijnVdS> there isn't one (set of) "the best app(s)"
<MartijnVdS> it really depends on what you want to do, and how you like to do things
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: like thunderbird
<kaushal> if there is a new message there is a pop up
<MartijnVdS> kaushal: I prefer gmail/gcalendar
<kaushal> is there a way to calculate CIDR from Netmask ?
<BigRedS> yeah, given the network address - they both define the same thing
<BigRedS> there's a bunch of websites about with js things for doing it or, I think, ipcalc is in the repos
<BigRedS> it's certainly in debian's
<MartijnVdS> ipcalc and ip6calc
<MartijnVdS> ip6calc does v4 and v6
<BigRedS> That said, ipcalc is one of those things I try to not let on that I'm using
<BigRedS> just to give the impression of that little bit more competence :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "I do it in my head *stabs at ipcalc*"
<BigRedS> haha, almost exactly! Used to be a running joke when I shared an office with a cisco wizzkid
<MartijnVdS> Tea!
<BigRedS> Seriously now, Apache, absence of a log file shouldn't cause you to not start
<BigRedS> especially at 07:20
<czajkowski> BigRedS: not a good start to your day then
<maco> czajkowski: i went to a ceili!
<czajkowski> maco: oh fun
<maco> czajkowski: i got a bunch of my family to go along too and we learned 4 dances
<czajkowski> siege of Ennis?
<maco> siege of carrick, two hand hornpipe, haymaker's jig, and keel row
 * TheOpenSourcerer ponders the "two hand hornpipe"...
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: !family ;P
<BigRedS> czajkowski: ach, it's not so bad
<BigRedS> at least it was so early nobody noticed :)
<daubers> Morning
<kaushal> daubers: Good Morning
<daubers> Still not found someone with a hot wire cutter :(
<screen-x> morning :)
<andylockran> guys
<andylockran> recommendation for moving imap folders around an imap tree?
<screen-x> andylockran: within a single user account?
<screen-x> if so, a normal mail client should do..
<andylockran> screen-x: yeah
<kazade> morning
<andylockran> screen-x: yeah, it does a mailbox rename, rather than a move.. which is good
<andylockran> but ideally like to do it via a CLI so I know it's been done. rather than trusting the mail client too much.
<screen-x> andylockran: just been experimenting with the cyrus imap store, manipulating folders directly doesn't work, probably need to rebuild indexes with cyradm after moving stuff around.
<andylockran> yeah
<hoover> mornin all
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<hoover> -5 C here this morning *shudder*
<BigRedS> -5? Positively tropical 8 or so
<hoover> Nice.. in the uk? temps not expected to rise here until Friday or so
<hoover> (germany btw)
<screen-x> +6 gere
<screen-x> err here
<screen-x> Heh, my parcel arrived at UPS Cardiff at 19:28 yesterday, it then arrived at UPS Cardiff at 04:39 this morning..
<JamesTait> Moooooooornin' all!
<screen-x> \o JamesTait
<hoover> screen-x: Looks like it had a good night out in Cardiff ;-)
<screen-x> ;-)
<czajkowski> nperry: ping
<kazade> hehe, just closed my first bug as "Wont fix" - seems evil somehow
<czajkowski> kazade: I'm sure folks will agree on it and comment with such :)
<kazade> czajkowski, indeed :)
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<bigcalm> Anybody know when cron.daily is run?
<screen-x> bigcalm: 25 6    * * *   root    test -x /usr/sbin/anacron || ( cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.daily )
<czajkowski> kazade: is a it fun bug or just a impossible to fix or just you really do not want to fix it
<bigcalm> screen-x: ta. Where did you find that?
<screen-x> /etc/crontab
<kazade> czajkowski, no it is actually a "really not our problem" bug
<bigcalm> Doh
<czajkowski> kazade: ah fair enough
<shauno> I wonder how it populates those; mine's a few hours off that, so I assume they're not hardcoded
<krimzon2> mine are different too
<shauno> never thought of that, but that's clever :)
<screen-x> good idea, especially for VMs..
<screen-x> I've just checked three lucid boxes, and they all have 25 6    * * * for cron.daily, there is nothing in the pre or post inst scripts to randomise it.. 25 6 * * * is also in the crontab in the cron package (for lucid)
<popey> mine is 6:05
<popey> but mine started life as ubuntu dapper
<popey> iirc
<shauno> mine's 4:25, but I don't recall changing it
<screen-x> shauno: lucid?
<shauno> yeah
<shauno> (had to check, I'm bad with names)
<shauno> altho I supose there's every chance bitfolk poke it as part of their rollout (which would be perfectly sensible)
<screen-x> ahh ha
 * screen-x checks bitfolk vps
<screen-x> nope, still 25 6 * * *
<AlanBell> bytemark certainly do, they have some stuff to jiggle the clocks too I think
<bigcalm> I wonder why my job didn't run then
<bigcalm> Is it because I didn't include the full path to the command being used?
<czajkowski> feck need to get some Ubuntu Cds
<MooDoo> czajkowski: best get burning :p
<AlanBell> we have an allocation of CDs as a loco somewhere
<hoover> I'm still having issues with random freezes / crashes in 10.10 on amd64 and intel...
<MooDoo> AlanBell: it would be nice to split the allocation around the country for ease of postage
<MooDoo> for events and stuff
<awilkins> Might even be nice to start doing USB sticks
<awilkins> Or SD Cards
<AlanBell> we should probably figure out what events we want to use them at in each cycle
<MooDoo> awilkins: to expensive i think
<awilkins> The small ones are probably nearly as cheap as media now
<AlanBell> this is a Daviey question i think
<czajkowski> awilkins: USB are too expensive, we've asked
<awilkins> Ah well :-)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: is this for fosdem or the plugfest or something else?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: what we do in Ireland is one person gets them, as that's the easiest way for the shipment to come and he then sends out packages, or people collect them off him and spread them out elsewhere
<awilkins> I just do myself one anyway - much faster than optical media
<czajkowski> AlanBell: BETT next week, just sent request to Canonical for them
<AlanBell> ok, that generally uses up quite a few boxes
<awilkins> The LiveCDs are _not_ optimal - the drive heads seek way too much, there should be something that works out the order the files are accessed in the stream and optimizes for it
<czajkowski> awilkins: just asked for a small enough number
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> AlanBell: just asked for a small enough number
<awilkins> Or just dump the whole image into RAM and use it from there
<andylockran> ureadahead for CDs ?
<popey> awilkins: thats a boot-time option already
<popey> unless it's been removed
<MooDoo> do we have a lightscribe lable for ubuntu cd's i might do a few of them.
<popey> maybe not, knoppix has it
<shauno> sounds like 'toram' is meant to work, per bug 25496
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 25496 in casper (Baltix) "Unable to boot Ubuntu using TORAM=yes (copy livecd to RAM)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/25496
<KrisDouglas> Hello everyone
<hoover> hello
<bigcalm> Will I get any post today? Place your bets!
<screen-x> bigcalm: yes!
<gord> why wouldn't you?
<screen-x> but it will probably be a takeaway menu :(
<bigcalm> gord: lazy postmen
<bigcalm> screen-x: damn, that would be likely
<gord> ah, i have similar problems
<bigcalm> I'm considering cancling my graze.com subscription
<hoover> hey biggie
<gord> woo the scott pilgrim vs the world: the game soundtrack was on ubuntu one, i love ubuntu one more every day -_-
<bigcalm> Hi Hoovie
<bigcalm> GF's brother gave me SPvsTW on Blu-Ray yesterday as a delayed xmas present
<bigcalm> Excited to be able to watch it again
<gord> wasn't too impressed with the movie, but i looooove the books and the game
<BigRedS> that film confused the hell out of me
<bigcalm> Not read the books or played the game
<DJones> SPvsTW?
<screen-x> DJones: see gords line
<MooDoo> DJones: scott pilgrim vs the world
<DJones> Ah
<gord> yeah it'll do that, it has weird pacing. in the books the events depicted in the film happen over months, possibly years. in the movie its all crammed into two weeks or so
<gord> its weird
<BigRedS> Yeah, did seem all rather hectic
<bigcalm> And I thought that Canadian relationships just happened quickly
<screen-x> BigRedS: problem is, that films dipicting life at normal speed are rather boring.
<BigRedS> screen-x: Napoleon Dynamyte comes to mind :)
<screen-x> haven't seen that one..
<gord> don't
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> It's a film in which almost nothing at all happens
<davmor2> morning all
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> please suggest/guide me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-January/238026.html ?
<terran> Napoleon Dynamite is excellent
<SuperMatt> ok, anyone want to tell me what I might be doing wrong: I have set my preferred browser to be firefox, but whenever I load a URL in gwibber, it tries to open in my last preferred browser - chromium
<SuperMatt> in fact, I double click an html file on my desktop, that goes to chromium too
<BigRedS> what does
<BigRedS> ls -l /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser
<BigRedS> output?
<SuperMatt> so how is it getting my default browser so wrong?
<SuperMatt> I see
<BigRedS> 'cause that's another of the places you can set teh default :)
<SuperMatt> seems a little silly to have it in two places but not update both
<SuperMatt> thanks
<BigRedS> that should be a symlink to whatever executable you want to run as a browser
<BigRedS> I gather one was the fashion, then the other became it, and nobody quite standardised on which one to follow
<BigRedS> that's the wonderful thing about standards, there's so many to choose from :)
<screen-x> I presume System > Preferences > Preferred Apps sets a gconf key?
<mattt> i couldn't tell if i loved or hated SPvsTW
<screen-x> mattt: sounds like an overall "meh"
<gord> maybe you are capable of emotions that are somewhere in the middle of "love" and "hate"
<mattt> gord: :/
 * mattt stares at gord
<BigRedS> starWarsQuote()
<screen-x> mattt: in a loving or hating way?
<mattt> screen-x: :P
<SuperMatt> BigRedS: didn't work
<SuperMatt> I've even rebooted my pc
<SuperMatt> ah, there's also gnome-www-browser
<kaushal> Checking in again for the query ?
<SuperMatt> and changing gnome-www-browser didn't work >.<
<BigRedS> SuperMatt: apt-get remove chromium   ? In all honestly, that was the first thing I tried when 10.10 clobbered my preference, so I don't know what it actually did
<SuperMatt> I guess I could
<BigRedS> it might be worth waiting around to see if anyone more patient came across it
<SuperMatt> well I've managed to hack it to work
<BigRedS> ln -s /usr/bin/chromium-browser /usr/bin/firefox-bin  ? :)
<SuperMatt> hah
<SuperMatt> no
<SuperMatt> I removed chromium as you said and it fixed it
<SuperMatt> but I really wanted things to open in ff4
<SuperMatt> I had to play with it to get that working :P
<BigRedS> ahhh
<alejandra> czajkowski, ping
<czajkowski> alejandra: pong
<alejandra> czajkowski, hello! could you do me a fave and check planet for me?
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<alejandra> czajkowski, just published a fix, want to see if works for you :)
<czajkowski> alejandra: ohhhhh :D
<alejandra> czajkowski, :)
<czajkowski> alejandra: you my dear rock! Planet is now readable again :D
<czajkowski> yay
<czajkowski> davmor2: *stabs*
<alejandra> czajkowski, yay!
<czajkowski> no more text over on chrommium :D
<MooDoo> czajkowski: poke prod and stab :p
<BigRedS> That's a nice contrast in sentiment there
<davmor2> czajkowski: you know by stabs you mean *hugs* right?
<MooDoo> davmor2: she doesn't do hugs so shhhhhhhh
<czajkowski> alejandra: nicely done! Thanks
<alejandra> czajkowski: happy it worked, looked awful!!
<davmor2> MooDoo: good day me old mukka
<AlanBell> yay \o/
<MooDoo> davmor2: hello matey.
<AlanBell> alejandra: what was the problem with it?
<czajkowski> alejandra: yes just a tad :)
<czajkowski> alejandra: did you have a good Christmas?
<alejandra> czajkowski, altho there is the matter of a bunch of girls wrestling a pig to the floor... buy hey!
<popey> good old jdub
<MooDoo> i hate that photo....
<alejandra> czajkowski, yes brilliant, too much food and booze... but got away to a nice place in Wales for a while too, which was nice. Did you have a brilliant time? Was your evil journey back justified? :)
<popey> MooDoo: I'd never seen it before
<popey> MooDoo: why?
<czajkowski> alejandra: there is still some posts going outside past the border, but not sure if that's their post being too wide ? like Fabien Tassin post and Martin Pitt posts there today as an example
<MooDoo> popey: i just get drawn to the poor pigs face lol
<alejandra> AllanBell: Was a line of code... let me check for you and can give you exact details... one sec
<czajkowski> alejandra: it was indeed Wales is soooo nice!
<j0nr> hello!
<j0nr> Happy new year all
<screen-x> good to hear some positive comments about Wales :)
<alejandra> AlanBell: It turns out the problem was caused by text-rendering: optimizeLegibility; Take out this line and the problem will be fixed. Basically, the optimisation causes a miscalculation on the font width/kerning on sizes <20px
<AlanBell> is that specific to the Ubuntu font?
<alejandra> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/CSS/text-rendering
<czajkowski> alejandra: http://twitpic.com/3n89dq/full
<alejandra> czajkowski, thanks, will check that out...
<terran> Speaking of Ubuntu font, check out the font on the signs at the train station in Kings Langley http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/hs677.snc4/61750_442205016949_785146949_5060446_5959572_n.jpg
<alejandra> czajkowski, saw one of the graphics also expands beyond the bubble...
<alejandra> AlanBell, not sure if just Ubuntu font...
<czajkowski> alejandra: aye
<czajkowski> alejandra: but the main thing, the font being fixed is great.
<alejandra> czajkowski, i know, hooray!
<czajkowski> :)
<alejandra> czajkowski, AlanBell: off to lunch, will ask more and let you guys know about those bits
<czajkowski> alejandra: Thank you
<alejandra> czajkowski, no problem! :)
<daubers> screen-x: Talking of Wales, it's more than likely that the missus and me will be over that way in the first weekend in february. Since we have to pass Cardiff both there and back, could pop in and say hello
<screen-x> daubers: cool :)
<screen-x> do you know whenish?
<screen-x> we are in Cardiff that weekend..
<daubers> It'll be the weekend of 5/6th feb. Idea of staying in a hotel (probably in Swansea) Saturday night and then coming back this way sometime Sunday. Supposedly meeting Swansea peeps Saturday afternoon
<czajkowski> cardiff is so pretty, home of torchwood, though i keep meaning to go there and be sober to see more of the place
<popey> isnt that fosdem weekend?
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> popey: you going ?
<popey> dunno
<screen-x> daubers: Sunday afternon/eve would be good
<daubers> screen-x: Cool, I'll let my calender (Kat) know, and she'll prod me to sort something out a bit closer to the time :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Captain Jack isn't real, he doesn't abide in a fountain in Cardiff honest ;)
<AlanBell> davmor2: next you will be saying that the prezzies didn't really come from Santa
<davmor2> AlanBell: Oh no Santa's real :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: there is only one reason I watched strictly come dancing christmas special was to see him dance!
<czajkowski> oh my :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: pervert ;)
<davmor2> and then admitting it publically :D
 * Dave2 realizes which channel this is, deletes what he was going to say.
<davmor2> Dave2: I should thinks so this isn't the LR channel you know
 * MooDoo watches SCD but only coz he watches his new future wife on it :)
<Pendulum> MooDoo: who is your future wife?
<MooDoo> Pendulum: Flavia ;)
<Pendulum> heh
<popey> MooDoo: the coffee?
<AlanBell> one of our friends used to be Anton's regular dance partner
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm awaiting the sound of the whack you're about to receive from your current wife
<AlanBell> and good morning Pendulum
<Pendulum> Hi AlanBell
<Pendulum> I used to train with one of the former Strictly pros
<Dave2> popey: that's what I was thinking too
<Dave2> (Speaking of which, I'm about to fall asleep on the keyboard.)
<czajkowski> davmor2: you're not in lrl to make the comment
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<BigRedS> afternoon!
<brobostigon> afternoonings BigRedS
<DJones> Hmmh, Dodgy news headline on el reg, Doctor who to marry Doctor Who's daughter
<AlanBell> so does this mean that on upgrade to Natty OpenOffice.org will be uninstalled and LibreOffice will be installed? https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2011-January/032298.html
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I thougt that was the plan
<AlanBell> I thought the original plan was to have both in the repos and LO would be default for new installs
<AlanBell> this means, I think, that Oracle OpenOffice.org won't be available at all on Ubuntu
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you free tonight to do some work for the april event ?
<popey> april event
<popey> ?
<AlanBell> sure czajkowski
<czajkowski> popey: aye teacher event
<czajkowski> Jan - April I am fully booked with events!
<andylockran> AlanBell: looks like it
<BigRedS> When you speak of 64-bit vs 32-bit, you're talking about what? the bitness? That sounds wrong, and 'width' sounds a bit overly-literal, to the point of innacuracy
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: cpu architecture :)
<MartijnVdS> bus width maybe.. instruction word length
<popey> data word length
<MartijnVdS> or that
<BigRedS> the sentence is "the problem is not with the <bitness?> of the system""
<czajkowski> AlanBell: great what time suits?
<BigRedS> mmm, data word length works
<MartijnVdS> Time suits.. that's what the Doctor wears ;)
 * popey fills in an invoice
<BigRedS> actually, maybe it doesn't :)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: what days next week are you going to BETT ?
<czajkowski> also is anyone in here going to BETT ?
<czajkowski> we can have a mini meet up
<czajkowski> :D
<BigRedS> is that the educashun computer thingywotsit?
<BigRedS> today is not a wordy day for me
<czajkowski> BigRedS: in English, Yes
<czajkowski> http://www.bettshow.com/bett11/website/Home.aspx?refer=1
<AlanBell> czajkowski: after 8 should be fine for tonight, or maybe earlier if kids are behaving
 * brobostigon looks up BETT
<czajkowski> AlanBell: don't get off the train till 7:30 so after 8 is good for me
 * czajkowski needs to buy a car soon before she cracks up 
<BigRedS> I might be in London for some of it, but not at the conference itself
<czajkowski> train ticket went up :s
<AlanBell> I am going on Thursday 13th (with a little speaking part)
 * popey tickles AlanBells little speaking part
 * popey puts it in a circus
<popey>  /nick dave2
<AlanBell> oi, that tickles
<Dave2> :o
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I might go up another day too, which would be best?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I've no idea never been. we're not taking a stand either
<AlanBell> oh, no stand, I thought there was one
<AlanBell> It is quite a busy event, or has been in the past
<czajkowski> AlanBell: we decided against it
<czajkowski> Mark is there I think on the Friday but in london on the wednesday.
<AlanBell> totally understand that, they are fearsomely expensive
<czajkowski> AlanBell: on the phone to Anne
<bigcalm> AlanBell: LOL
<AlanBell> you have to wonder what it is that Oracle thought they were buying
<czajkowski> I don't think even they know
<daubers> AlanBell: Java was probably their main target, and the rest of Suns IP
<daubers> Although they've managed to burn their bridges with Java really
<directhex> daubers, it's about controlling the ecosystem. oracle customers have always been java users (e.g. jnitiator as the VM for oracle financials) - relying on sun was always a risk
 * hoover 's playing with VirtualBox 4.0 ATM
<hoover> I hope they don't fsck that up, too
<dwatkins> I've been using vmware instead of virtualbox for a few weeks, and am impressed with the desktop integration of vmware
 * daubers just uses kvm these days
 * BigRedS hasn't used imaginary hardware for quite a while
<dwatkins> I need to have multiple versions of server software available, and can't just keep them all running in case I need one, so virtual machines seem the best way.
<BigRedS> Ah, I need to get all my multiple versions of server software down to not-that-many different versions...
<daubers> I use it to test various upgrades before rolling them out to various servers :)
 * awilkins looks and goes oooOOooooo at Vbox 4
<awilkins> I'm suspicious ; is this new "reorganisation" an attempt to monetize it (more) by Oracle ....
<dwatkins> Oracle is a business.... I imagine everything they do is to make money.
<dwatkins> I did get a free t-shirt from them once, though.
<shauno> vbox worries me, because it's far too easy to recommend to people (free & cross-platform), but I simply don't trust the current ownership
<dwatkins> How about KVM, shauno?
<shauno> that's a bit less cross-platform
<dwatkins> true
<BigRedS> dwatkins: and I was so proud of my free MS t-shirt...
<dwatkins> I imagine vmware is also questionable in terms of their motives.
<shauno> I think they're a bit more transparent.  they're obviously trying to monetise it, and we can see exactly where/how
<gord> honestly, i don't get why everyone seems to think oracle are evil
<dwatkins> gord: I don't, but I do know that their software can be very convuluted.
<gord> well yeah if they start making the ex sun properties suck then the market will decide to not use them, no big deal
<shauno> evil isn't my problem.  I mean.  I use a mac at home.  I'm down with evil.  It's unpredictable that worries me.
<bennie> hey all
<popey> hi bennie
<bennie> hey popey
<bennie> did you ever get a o2 jogler during the big rush to pick them up?
<popey> i did
<bennie> does it work with a stylus bu any chance?
<popey> not tried
<bigcalm> That an ipad magic wand thing?
<bennie> hmm, i was thinking to trying to pick one up to use to write some notes up on the cheap.
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> You'd want to remove the metal stand then
<bigcalm> Or you could do what I do and just use it as an alarm clock using the web app I wrote ;)
<bennie> not a problem, just a pet project i just thought of.
<Mez> Suggestions for Hosted Bug Tracker software?
<BigRedS> as in, a bug tracker on somebody else's hardware?
<bennie> ha, i already use three alarms. I had thought of retasking my old eee 701 with a touch screen addon, but that wouldn't be ideal.
<Mez> BigRedS: as in a bug tracker we don't have to manage for security updates, etc etc. But is for us.
<Mez> BigRedS: Think Google Apps stylee
<BigRedS> yeah, that's what I was thinking. In that case, I've no idea.
<BigRedS> I've just been helping a customer for whom 'hosted' means 'hosted on our server, by us'
<BigRedS> I'd guess people on here would suggest Launchpad mostly, though :)
<Mez> Yeah - LP is overkill.
<gord> bennie, ... get a notepad and a pen
<BigRedS> github has one in it's pay-for packaged, wonder if bitbucket or gitorious do same?
<Mez> BigRedS: Fogbugz would be nice - but over-expensive for our needs.
<BigRedS> Mez: google code is very google apps stylee :)
<BigRedS> but, really, I shouldn't be suggesting these since I've never used them
<bennie> gord: whilst sound advice, i was hoping to have something i could index. with my papers and load on to my kindel  not to worry
<gord> bennie, a notebook also makes a pretty good kindle ;)
<bigcalm> Did some serious reading time with the kindle last night
<kazade> Can you still buy Jogglers? I looked a while back and couldn't find one..
<screen-x> kazade: no
<bigcalm> kazade: not from o2
<bennie> gord, again true, but not for the number of books i carry around with me.
<Mez> BigRedS: yeah - but not private.
<andylockran> hwody
<andylockran> ooh,
<andylockran> bad spelling
<AlanBell> wow, stroppy children are now deleting my programs on the Sky+ box as an act of revenge for being told off!
 * DJones wonders at the stupidity of a business sending out a letter with "The purpose of this letter is to confirm your address and contact details, if you do _not_ receive it, please contact us to update your details"
<bigcalm> AlanBell: time to set a pin on the box
<AlanBell> bigcalm: there is a pin, I don't know what it is
<davmor2> AlanBell: You obviously need to show them whose boss,  take away every eletrical gadget and no tv
<bigcalm> Doh
<DJones> AlanBell: Always used to be the last 4 digits of your sky card number
<bigcalm> I keep disabling the pin on the v+ box, and it keeps reactivating itself. Silly 1234
<AlanBell> yeah, it changed, I need to plug it in to a phone line and go through the recovery procedure
<AlanBell> unless the kids do it first
<bigcalm> Time to put them up for addoption
<AlanBell> you can't sell them on ebay
<bigcalm> Damn
<BigRedS> Gumtree'll probably let you sell 'em there, though
<AlanBell> don't think you can on etsy either, although you should
<BigRedS> wont get the money you would've on ebay back in the day
<seeker> How old are they?
<AlanBell> 10,8,6
<DJones> You might be able to sell them on craiglist
<seeker> Tell them that if they don't behave, popey will come and get them
<AlanBell> they have met popey, I don't think that will scare them much
<czajkowski> AlanBell: your kids deleted stuff after being told off...... I'd remove the tv swifty and anything they got for xmas!
<AlanBell> czajkowski is strict
<Pendulum> AlanBell: that's probably what would have happened to me as a kid.
<bigcalm> It's been a while so I can't remember - does getting a flu jab knock you about? Contemplating walking to the doctor's later
<bigcalm> Pendulum: oh, that happened to me
<seeker> bigcalm: I had an achy arm for a day or two
<Pendulum> (of course my parents only get the US version of freeview anyway so there was no chance of us deleting stuff off the box ;) )
<czajkowski> AlanBell: kids should not be allowed do that, it's just simple, and it's not that I'm strict, there is just no way my parents would tolerate me doing that
<bigcalm> Had my bbc micro removed several times
<Pendulum> czajkowski: +1
<AlanBell> czajkowski: she is in trouble, certainly
<czajkowski> AlanBell: if we mis behaved we lost out on something, which was usually horse riding so no way would we
<brobostigon> bigcalm: :(
<czajkowski> or I'd have to wash the car and hoover and not get money for doing it as punishment
<bigcalm> brobostigon: I was addicted to it
<AlanBell> just so funny the way she walked up and told me she had deleted the Wallace and Grommit I had recorded
<brobostigon> bigcalm: it was good.
<Pendulum> AlanBell: sounds like she's almost looking for the discipline
<Pendulum> like, that's an attention-seeking thing
<czajkowski> AlanBell: dear gods man! if that's not rubbing it in I don't know what is
<seeker> AlanBell: Sounds like you've got a juvenile delinquent there
<DJones> AlanBell: Sounds like a definate case of "Deleting the childrens tv/food/staying up" priviliges & replacing with a non-politically correct spanking
<AlanBell> seeker: or the next George Washington
<bigcalm> That was a myth
<czajkowski> DJones: indeed
<bigcalm> He didn't say it
<bigcalm> Policatal spin by a news paper
<AlanBell> no doubt
<bigcalm> http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_said_I_can_not_tell_a_lie
<czajkowski> AlanBell: it's not that I'm strict, it's just that I'm more strict than you, but I suspect many people are :)
<popey> wow
<bigcalm> Heh, aww
<popey> Thats "bed with no supper" territory where I come from
<czajkowski> Pendulum: +1
<AlanBell> interestingly enough she failed to actually delete it
<czajkowski> dear tab completion please stop confusing me
<czajkowski> AlanBell: NOT THE POINT!
<AlanBell> she is having some time in her room to think about things
<BigRedS> Ah, I'd have had something related as punishment normally. Can't quite think what here, perhaps just a ban on watching $popularShow for a bit
<bigcalm> I would have got a damn good hiding as well
<czajkowski> AlanBell: is that where her toys are
<popey> AlanBell: does she have materials to construct a rope ladder?
<MooDoo> Jimmy is only two but we've started using the "Naughty Step" :)
<popey> yup, we use naughty stair too
<popey> works well
<popey> one minute for each year of their age
<MooDoo> yes it's working for us, exept we can't help but laughing when he goes and sits on it himself lol
<brobostigon> taking away my spectrum would have worked when i was young,
<popey> heh
<Pendulum> we were sent to the bathrooms for timeouts (obviously dangerous things were not out and were locked away from us)
 * AlanBell is 35
 * MooDoo is 38
 * popey starts the clock
 * popey doesn't expect to see AlanBell for another 35 mins
 * bigcalm doesn't feel so young any more
<AlanBell> :)
<czajkowski> taking away my horse riding from me was enough to smack manners on me, plus we also have the church thing to put manners/scare us
<seeker> popey: You've been watching supernanny?
<popey> nope
<popey> my wife is qualified
<DJones> Pendulum: Hope the household had another bathroom, or some punishments could have been quite short in case of emergency
<AlanBell> czajkowski: my lot seem to like church which is a bit of a disappointment
<Pendulum> DJones: yep
<popey> she teaches childcare
<czajkowski> Charlotte Church doesn;t count AlanBell
<seeker> popey: Ah, k
<czajkowski> therealpopey is really nice
<czajkowski> but kids do well to obey her :)
<popey> why yes, yes she is nice :)
<Pendulum> my parents would also one-by-one remove things from my room. down to including my furniture (other than bed). Once did get to the point where I was going into my parents to get clothes every day. Although that was for not keeping my room clean
<AlanBell> things get difficult when a child is quite capable of going into a 3-4 hour raging tantrum
<MooDoo> AlanBell: my son went tochurch the other day for the first time
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I beg to differ, outside  in the garden, knock yerelf out there
<popey> I'd be looking at the root cause of the rage
<Pendulum> popey: I was about to say that
<popey> and divert to other things
<popey> "hey look, shiny!"
<czajkowski> we also had the wooden spoon in our house
<czajkowski> I could run fast!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: scholl slippers in mine.
<AlanBell> not my style
<MooDoo> big wodden things
<Pendulum> definitely got the garden punishment. Including in the snow
<popey> yeah, I'm not a smacking type
<AlanBell> garden has been used
<AlanBell> "you will be sleeping with the chickens"
<popey> with a hose?
<bigcalm> If it was good enough for us then it's good enough for them...
<DJones> Cupboard under the stairs?
<MooDoo> DJones: doesn't that take you to narnia?
<MooDoo> ah no wrong cupboard
<DJones> MooDoo: Nah, thats the bedroom cupboard
<czajkowski> AlanBell: it may not be yours, but you need to find something and I turned out ok :) it was also not an every day thing, more waved about to scare the shit out of us, and there is no way I eould ever pull a tantrum for 2 hrs let alone 2 mins
 * bigcalm gets distracted by his Tardis spinning
<czajkowski> the sister used to fake dead for hours on the floor  and the parents would just walk oever
<czajkowski> her
<hippychick> i was thinking more harry potter...
<bigcalm> Hehehe :D
<DJones> Actually, cupboard under the stairs isn't a good idea when its got the electricity meter & fuses in it
<MooDoo> czajkowski: my sister used to hold her breath
<czajkowski> MooDoo: I tend to laugh at kids when they do that
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yea we leave them to it, when they faint they naturally start to breath again
<czajkowski> MooDoo: exactly but kids don't know that
<AlanBell> MooDoo: at least that is a quiet form of protest
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> AlanBell: do they behave at school ?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm at work, time for an experiment ;)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: pretty much, yes
<czajkowski> AlanBell: well that's not really good, manners for strangers... but not for ye
<MooDoo> czajkowski: my son would be nice if we stopped him watching the wiggles or peppa pig :)
<czajkowski> I do like peppa pig
<czajkowski> or whats the one in the garden...
 * TheOpenSourcerer believes in the birch and the strop.
<MooDoo> in the night garden?
<MooDoo> with the ninky nonk and pinky ponk?
<MooDoo> iggle piggle and the whohars?
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> I like that one
<czajkowski> *cough* when I see it of course
<seeker> I was smacked if I did something really wrong
<MooDoo> czajkowski: it's nuts :D
<seeker> Soon stopped me doing it
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: what now ?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: if you like that, and think it's strange, watch Yo Gabba Gabba!
<TheOpenSourcerer> Beating them to within an inch of being visible ;-)
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: i've got to be careful doing that, i'm 6'6 and jimmy is expected to be bigger than me one day ;)
 * DJones checks MooDoo's ident to see if waffle has pinched the nick
 * MooDoo looks around and whistles :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ha MooDoo I'm sure my eldest son (10) will be significantly taller and stronger that I in a few years.
<MooDoo> TheOpenSourcerer: what goes around comes around :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - maybe I should be buying him beer instead then...
<MooDoo> besides, when england beats ireland at the rugby i'll get my beatings from czajkowski :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<TheOpenSourcerer> Me too.
<bigcalm> When?
<bigcalm> If?
<popey> Someone I know does something I consider very scary.. verging on child abuse.
<popey> He gets told if the kids have been bad during the day, when he gets home from work
<popey> if they have, he yanks them from their beds and smacks them
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmm - that's a bit old-school isn't it popey
<popey> the kids will have no clue why as they dont relate punishment "now" to misdemeanor "then"
<popey> yeah
<popey> he's younger than me!
<czajkowski> popey: bit bad alright, child has no context what  he's done to get that
<TheOpenSourcerer> My Dad used to do that to us, but he's 83 and so has a decent excuse
<AlanBell> not conducive to a quiet evening either
<czajkowski> MooDoo: oi cheeky go look at the past stats for games won recently!
<DJones> As somebody who doesn't have kids, but has dogs, that would seem useless, if the punishment isn't there & then, its two different things as far as the dog is concerned
<popey> yeah
<popey> hence "abuse"
 * czajkowski is really looking forward to an Ubuntu evnet that doesn't have a talk/presenation/demo/geekery associated with it 
<MooDoo> czajkowski: er er :)
<popey> czajkowski: \o/
<popey> there will be geekery
<popey> people will be tweeting :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: I was planning a short presentation on something tedious and boring.
<czajkowski> popey: oh there will be but secodary to the match and drink and just casual chatting and putting face to names
<TheOpenSourcerer> (not)
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: I was planning a long presentation on something tedious and boring
<czajkowski> wonder does the pub ave wifi...
<czajkowski> popey: TheOpenSourcerer ye'll be both on ignore that day misters!
<popey> when is it again?
<czajkowski> you signed up for it
<czajkowski> March 19th
<czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/
<popey> ooo thats near paddy day
<czajkowski> yes
<popey> hmm, sophie has a ballet exam the next day
<czajkowski> but ye don't have paddys day here!
<popey> which means I will be "stay at home dad" on sunday
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Not many peeps...
<czajkowski> so that will be mine :D
<popey> recovering
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: no not yet and for some too close to commit to
<shauno> everywhere has paddy's day.  any excuse is a good excuse :)
<popey> added to calendar
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have booked the day out from Mrs TheOpenSourcerer
<popey> i have added to the shared calendar
<popey> which in effect means I am going when/if I get approval
 * MooDoo looks for clapham junction on the tube map
<czajkowski> Free wifi in pub!
<BigRedS> ooh. Clapham's down in teh wilderness
<czajkowski> Clapham was picked due to good train access
<BigRedS> I've always known the south to be mostly devoid of good public transport
<popey> have we got room booked for the 19th?
<BigRedS> but, thinking about it, that's a very london-centric view :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: got to get there from st pancras
<shauno> this may possibly be the strangest turnout they've had for a game
<popey> MooDoo: you coming out to play!?
<MooDoo> popey: yes i am :D
<popey> yay
<MooDoo> got my pass and everything
<czajkowski> popey: nope not a room booked just rang, but come early and grab tables or they may be opening the function room to book a table and platter
<czajkowski> MooDoo: change from might be to are attending :D
<czajkowski> shauno: I cant get home to watch the match and I want to meet more people, seems like a good way to combine both really
<dutchie> wonder if i can be bothered to wander down from ox
<BigRedS> I might well be there, assuming a complete indiference to rugby is permitted
<BigRedS> I do like beer, though
<czajkowski> dutchie: no reason not to
<dutchie> actually, term will have finished
<dutchie> so i will be in worceste
<dutchie> r
<czajkowski> BigRedS: of course, all about the beer chat food and just meeting people
<popey> czajkowski: looking forward to it
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> YES!
<MooDoo> czajkowski: done!
<czajkowski> I dont relaly mind the result!  but I do like to watch a game with folks! and something different :D
<MooDoo> hmmm ubuntu or england top is now the decision ;)
<BigRedS> Ah, I might end up having my birthday celebrations then, we shall see. This is the downside to outsourcing birthday celebration organisation...
<dutchie> dunno if i can justify coming all the way from worcs just for an afternoon in the pub
<dutchie> :(
<BigRedS> dutchie: 'just' ?
<dutchie> heh
<MooDoo> dutchie: i'm coming from nottingham
<dutchie> hmm
<bigcalm> dutchie: I thought you'd abandoned WR?
<dutchie> bigcalm: only in term time
<dutchie> with 8 week terms, i spend more time here than in ox :)
<kvarley> For somebody to run an application developed in ruby within ubuntu what packages do they need installed?
<bigcalm> I wish all of my clients' server had sudo installed. Would make my life so much simpler
<gord> kvarley, i would guess the "roby" package
<daubers> !info ruby
<lubotu3> ruby (source: ruby-defaults): An interpreter of object-oriented scripting language Ruby. In component main, is optional. Version 4.5 (maverick), package size 21 kB, installed size 120 kB
<BigRedS> kvarley: ruby, and particularly its frameworks, can be *very* picky about versions
<popey> hahahahahaahahahahaahahahahah
<popey> ruby
<popey> on ubuntu
<BigRedS> I don't think I've ever found anything that just happens to work with whatever version's in a repository
<popey> http://www.lucas-nussbaum.net/blog/?p=566
<popey> read that
<BigRedS> always ends up with something incredibly specific in /opt
<BigRedS> popey: really, the 'on ubuntu' bit is immaterial. Most ruby stuff seems to only work on the developer's machine without daft amounts of hassle
<popey> you get my point
<BigRedS> i've farted about for ages on rpmish machines, again ending up just downloading the specific point-release of everything into /opt
<BigRedS> but yea
<BigRedS> h
<BigRedS> (just didn't like the potential impression that it's ubuntu's fault, until you read the blog post)
<gord> attempted to run some ruby stuff before, but always given up
 * kvarley will stick to python/java, thanks anway
<popey> java....
<popey> hahahaha
<popey> etc
<BigRedS> haha
<directhex> c#!
<BigRedS> irritatingly, PHP seems the most fire-and-forget
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: popey AlanBell ye going to http://digitalsurrey.co.uk/events/DigitalSurreyJanuaryDigitalSurreyEvents_000.php
<BigRedS> apt-get install libapache2-php5 && give-to-customer
<kvarley> I want to learn a c but can't find tutorials relating to ubuntu that run it natively
<directhex> BigRedS, for all its flaws, php does a good job at cross-version compatibility
<shauno> reminds me, I tried installing a diaspora node locally the other night.  what a faff that turned out to be
<BigRedS> directhex: yeah, you can well see why it's so incredibly popular. And its flaws are receding. Especially flaws that admins need to be aware of
<directhex> it's an inherently "bad" language, developed more by accident and beer than by design, but there are great things built with it
<shauno> between ruby, redis, mongodb, and whatever other buzzwords it requires, it adds just overr 1Gb to a stock ubuntu-server install.  for a webapp :/
<BigRedS> shauno: apt-get install buzzword-full ? :)
<popey> czajkowski: hadn't planned to
<shauno> when they start pulling in gtk as dependencies you start to wonder
<BigRedS> gtk? whatever for?
<czajkowski> gonna stick my name down on the list, tis fully booked :(
<popey> yeah, i will too
<shauno> BigRedS: I dread to think
<shauno> appears mongodb uses xulrunner, which seems to be most the stranger dependencies.  pango, gtk, glade, x11 .. on a server
<directhex> and people call mono bloated...
<shauno> and here I thought the trend towards buying slices of clouds instead of expensive boxes would lead away from that
<BigRedS> shauno: I'm pretty sure I've had mongodb installed without all that crap
<BigRedS> i did it from the mongo repo, I don't know if that would satisfy the right dependencies, should do
<BigRedS> not hard to modify the provides: if it does
<BigRedS> n't
<nigelb> AlanBell: Did you see http://theashes.spreadshirt.com/ ?
<BigRedS> nigelb: haah!
<MartijnVdS> ashes to ashes
<nigelb> She actually did go to Australia.
<MartijnVdS> any other sports trophies/cups with nicknames?
<MartijnVdS> (create twitter account.. :))
<shauno> this is via mongo's repo too
<BigRedS> hmm, wonder what I did then
<shauno> if it was something I was actually going to use, I'd probably go looking to see if it's possible to build xulrunner sans X
<TheOpenSourcerer> czajkowski: Yes.
<bigcalm> How do you count the number of files in a dir?
<dutchie> ls | wc -l
<bigcalm> ta
<bigcalm> ls -l
<bigcalm> ls will use more than one column
<dutchie> not if you pipe it
<bigcalm> Oh yes :)
<mgdm> popey: when you signed up to bit.ly pro, did it take a while to get back to you? Or did you get into the beta thing?
<bigcalm> I wrote my own instead of signing up to another service
<mgdm> I'm considering that too, now
<bigcalm> I've partly written it
<bigcalm> Care to collabirate?
<bigcalm> Symfony 1.4 and Doctrine
<mgdm> I know little about either, but I've been intending to learn
<bigcalm> Cool, I'll add you to SVN if you're really interested
<zleap> where does windows store files waiting to be copied to a cd-r
<zleap> we have files that have already been burned but it keeps saying files waioting to be burned to cd
<zleap> waiting
<bigcalm> zleap: this is a linux channel, you should ask in ##windows
<jacobw> http://refcards.com/
<jacobw> ^ useful
<zleap> sirry
<zleap> sorry
<daubers> Evening
<kazade> evening daubers
<daubers> Getting used to Unity is odd
<kazade> that's because it sucks ;)
<daubers> I find myself using workspaces a lot more often...
<daubers> kazade: I actually prefer it to normal gnome now
<kazade> you don't use dual monitors I assume ;)
<daubers> Although being able to make the left hand bar a bit thinner would be nice
<daubers> kazade: At work I do... but defo not running Alpha stuff there :)
<kazade> I'm more interested in the work Elementary is doing
<kazade> so far Canonical's response to concerns about the global menu is "la la la I can't hear you" :p
<kazade> well, I guess technically they said they'd do "something"
<kazade> for dual monitors
<daubers> Oh, not seen much of that really
<kazade> I follow (and attempt to contribute) on the Ayatana mailing list
<daubers> Ahhhh... fair enough
<kazade> I can't recall a single non-Canonical idea ever gain any traction, even if it's obviously superior
<kazade> some guy listed really good arguments the other day why having the dock on the right (or at least the option) would be much more usable
<daubers> I'm not very good at UI design stuff, so tend to leave that to people who might have a clue :) (i.e. not me)
<daubers> I'd kinda assumed the dock would get some position options at some point
<kazade> I don't think it will
<kazade> like notify-osd
<kazade> I'm putting my faith in Gnome shell and Elementary. Elementary actually seem to care about usability
<daubers> I dunno, I imagine it will eventually. Obviously priority will be to make it work properly first
<daubers> gnome shell was interesting, but was a bit of a pain to work with
<daubers> When i toyed with it anyway
<kazade> yeah, it seems to have improved a lot recently
<brobostigon> i certainly find the workspace manegement easier and quicker to deal in gnome-shell.
<kazade> Take a look at the elementary projects, like Postler, Marlin, WingPanel, Dexter...
<kazade> they are really thinking about usability, while Canonical mess around with a non-discoverable global menu and moving window controls around (can you tell I'm losing faith?)
<daubers> heh
<brobostigon> kazade: do you have a linkto their site, my search for elementary projects has retuned everything but software releated subjects,
<daubers> I intend to give unity a go for a release or two, see where it goes and then form a proper opinion whether it fits in my daily workflow
<daubers> rather than base it on unfinished stuff :)
<kazade> brobostigon, OMG!Ubuntu! tend to have the best coverage: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/07/postler-elementary%E2%80%99s-new-mail-client/
<kazade> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/11/nautilus-elementary-is-dead-marlin-file-browser/
<jacobw> i prefer the dock on left, because it is like the margin of page
<kazade> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/wingpanel-elementarys-slick-new-space-saving-panel/
<brobostigon> kazade: i will subscribe to their rss.
<mgdm> I dislike that website purely because of their name
<kazade> brobostigon, main site: http://www.elementary-project.com/
<jacobw> perhaps some people prefer the dock on left because it makes more sense to a mind used to reading left to right
<brobostigon> kazade: thank you.
<kazade> brobostigon, one final one: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/12/meet-dexter-elementarys-new-address-book-app/
<brobostigon> kazade: thank you..
<rox33> I took this 1 minute log: http://pastebin.com/zFege3eH     with the following command "echo 1 > /proc/sys/vm/block_dump". What i am investigating is the constant HDD access noises, i think it is related to the jbd2 writes
<kazade> right I'm off to write myself a CV, have a good evening all
<rox33> I read it is related to ext4 but i dont know if access this frequent is normal or if I need the benefit of ext4 at the cost of that
<AlexJ_> Hi
<AlexJ_> I would like to add programs for load during startup, but add them in the command line.
<SuperMatt> is there any way in unity to stop everything from opening maximised? (10.10)
<kvarley> AlexJ_: The default tool "gnome-session-properties" is GUI based and can add most applications to the startup. Why do you want to add them from command line?
<AlexJ_> kvarley: I find knowledge of the command line useful :)
<kvarley> AlexJ_: I haven't tried this but this article explains how to do it on Ubuntu, not sure if it still works but it's worth a try. http://www.reviewsaurus.com/blogging-tips/statup-program-load-ubuntu-feisty-fawn/
<AlexJ_> kvarley: thank you
<AlanBell> czajkowski: things are running way behind schedule here
<czajkowski> AlanBell: like wise dont worry can just ring ya tomorrow
<czajkowski> tis just to touch base over eventbrite stuff
<czajkowski> not at all urgen
<AlexJ_> I was just wondering, is there a booth at CES?
<AlanBell> ok, great
<AlexJ_> *Ubuntu booth*
<AlanBell> CES is in America isn't it?
<MartijnVdS> 'tis
<AlexJ_> I'm not sure
<AlanBell> I shouldn't think there would be one
<AlanBell> but there might well be OEMs showing off Ubuntu on devices
<MartijnVdS> Las Vegas tends to be in the USA
<AlexJ_> k
<AlexJ_> is there any such thing as an open-source event?
<popey> mgdm: yeah, a few days
<AlexJ_> like ces, but for open source software
<AlanBell> fosdem I guess
<AlexJ_> fosdem?
<popey> ooo, shallow grave on film4 tonight
<MartijnVdS> AlexJ_: fosdem.
<popey> http://fosdem.org/
<popey> or
<popey> http://google.com/
<AlexJ_> popey: I was asking because I wanted to visit an Ubuntu event/booth :D
<popey> we may have one this year at ..
<popey> AlanBell: whats the linux expo called now?
<MartijnVdS> oggcamp? 8-)
<popey> hah
<AlexJ_> :D
 * AlexJ_ runs around the room, wants a ticket :p
<popey> oggcamp is free :)
<AlexJ_> :o
<AlexJ_> :D
<kvarley> popey: Is that the thing hosted in liverpool?
<MartijnVdS> if people bother to host it again... ;)
<popey> it was in liverpool last year
<kvarley> popey =)
<popey> highly unlikely it will be this year
<AlexJ_> MartijnVdS: why, what happened last time?
<AlexJ_> popey: aww, why not?
 * AlexJ_ must have missed something
<popey> AlexJ_: see http://oggcamp.org/
<popey> it probably wont be in liverpool because only one of the 9 or so people organising it lives there
<dutchie> aka "it will be in hampshire"
<dutchie> (probably)
<popey> :)
<popey> maaaaybe
<popey> or germany
<MartijnVdS> Middle of Scotland.
<dutchie> please don't have it in germany
<AlexJ_> popey: are there any video coverages of last year?
<MartijnVdS> I love how "middle of nowhere" on google maps shows the Isle of Wight ;)
<popey> some, yes
<jacobw> IoW is awesome
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: but, according to Google, "middle of nowhere" :)
<nigelb> popey: Hey, will you have time to help with a user days session this cycle :)
<ocean> hi guys. I recently bot a hp 64 bit laptop which uses ATI mobility readon HD 5470 graphics(switchable with intel HD GMA) and installed ubuntu 10.10 and the instalation was flawless. when i restarted i got a massage that the ATM/AMD proprietary FGLRX graphics card is available. i installed the driver and on next restart the computer screen went blank. i had to reinstall ubuntu and since then i havent installed this driver. can anyone tell me which graphics
<ocean>  could be this machine using without this driver. do i need this driver for the best perfomance? is there anyway to make this machine switchable between 2 cards as windows do?
<czajkowski> Anyone going to FOSDEM please add your info to the wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fosdem/2011
<popey> nigelb: if I can
<nigelb> popey: want me to put you down as a probably instructor?
<nigelb> *probable
<ali1234> ocean: fglrx drivers are notoriously bad, sorry
<popey> nigelb: depends what subject
<maco> ocean: fglrx is the proprietary ati driver. there's also an open source one, simply called "ati". the open one should be able to handle 2D on any ati card and 3D on quite a decent chunk of them. fglrx does 3D on the remainder.
<popey> nigelb: and when it is
<ali1234> i've heard of those laptops that have switchable graphics to save power, never heard of a linux driver for them though
<nigelb> popey: subject --> any user oriented subject, date --> 29th of jan weekend
<ali1234> if your intel GMA is not GMA500 then the drivers for that are really good, probably better than ATI
<MartijnVdS> intel++
<ali1234> if it's GMA500 then you are screwed, cos that's only intel in name
<jacobw> ATI suck
<popey> nigelb: ok
<ocean> maco, rhanks.which driver do u recomend? how do i know which driver is on my machine
<MartijnVdS> for ATI? the free one
<MartijnVdS> for nvidia? depends on what you want to do, but stick with the free one as long as possible
<MartijnVdS> Intel? Only one choice :)
<maco> ocean: if you look for LoadModule in /var/log/Xorg.0.log it should tell you what driver is in use
<ali1234> keep the driver you have until you find something that doesn't work with it
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: exactly
<nigelb> popey: talk to me or lyz when you're ready with a topic :-)
 * awilkins is quietly relaxed after drinking 1/2 pint of pop-your-head-off 8.2% cider
<czajkowski> awilkins: oh which one?
<awilkins> Westons 1880
<czajkowski> popey: thank you!
<popey> np
<popey> czajkowski: did you have an etherpad page with a list of uk events this year?
<czajkowski> popey: aye
<czajkowski> popey: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/2011plan
<popey> ta
<czajkowski> np
 * czajkowski goes back to watching V
<Morganna> poodles, that is all
<popey> poodles indeed!
<MartijnVdS> oodles of poodles
<AlexJ_> aah!, my menu has disappeared, http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/scaled/Xubuntu%2010.10/13.gif how can i get it back?
<Yorvyk> AlexJ_, right click on the panel
<AlexJ_> ok
<Yorvyk> and then click things, the name of which I can't remember :)
<Yorvyk> I'm just launch Xubuntu to see what to do and stalling for time :)
<Yorvyk> AlexJ_, Add New Items
<AlexJ_> Yorvyk: sorry, which 1 do i add?
<Yorvyk> AlanBell, the last one. Xfce4 Menu
<Yorvyk> I mean AlexJ_
<AlexJ_> Yorvyk: thank you
<ocean> hi guys, i am not able to connect to wifi with my hp laptop dv6-3150sa where its alright with the wired connection. enable wireless has been ticked. can any one help where to start
<ocean> i use ubuntu 10.10
<Yorvyk> AlexJ_, np
<ocean> guys my ubuntu 10.10 (hp laptop) is not showing the wireless network to trying to connect to it. can any one help thanks
<bigcalm> ocean: is wifi enabled?
<bigcalm> Do you have any other wifi devices that are able to connect to the network?
<bigcalm> Is the wifi network set to hide its SSID?
<bigcalm> In a terminal, does the wifi interface show up with /sbin/ifconfig
<bigcalm> ?
<ocean> bigcalm, thanks for the reply. the blue white lcd is on and blue tooth icon has come up.i presume wireless network is switched on
<brobostigon> ocean: and can you scan via commandline, "iwlist scan"
<ocean> brobostigon, does it need sudo infront?
<brobostigon> ocean: think so, yes.
<zleap> anyone here in the chippenham area ?
<bigcalm> Nope
<zleap> k
<bigcalm> ocean: no, you can run it as a user
<bigcalm> zleap: I have no idea, my nope wasn't intended for you
<zleap> i just realised that
<zleap> its me not concentrating
<ocean> bigcalm, brobostigon pls find the pastebin http://pastebin.ca/2039112
<bigcalm> So it's found the card
<brobostigon> ocean: do you see our wifi ap inthe scanned list, ?
<ocean> brobostigon,  thats the output which it has given me. sorry  idon understand by wifi ap
<bigcalm> Access Point I think
<brobostigon> ocean: yes, access point, the device you connect to,
<ocean> no, it is not showing any acees points.
<AlanBell> ocean: try "sudo ifconfig wlan0 up"
<AlanBell> then scan again
<ocean> AlanBell, SIOCSIFFLAGS: Device or resource busy thats the output
<AlanBell> ocean: try "dmsg|grep Radio"
 * AlanBell expects to see something like iwl3945: Radio disabled by HW RF Kill switch
<brobostigon> dmesg | grep radio
<AlanBell> which means it is turned off in hardware somehow
<ocean> AlanBell, brobostigon [   11.631146] Registered led device: rt2800pci-phy0::radio
<ocean> i am using 64 bit, the 32 bit 10.10 is working fine on my older laptop :-(
<AlanBell> ok, not that then
<AlanBell> ocean: take a look at this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1613139
<AlanBell> if you have the rt2800pci card then it seems others have been hitting issue with it
<AlanBell> sounds like a real mess to me
<AlanBell> incidentally when reading threads on the forum start at the end and work backwards, often the initial 'solution' is entirely the wrong thing to do
<ocean> AlanBell, to be honest i don understand anything whats mentioned over there :-( , does it mean that i am going to have trouble with mobile broadband as well
<AlanBell> no, just wifi
<AlanBell> or any trouble you have with mobile broadband will be unrelated to the wifi issues
<ocean> AlanBell, i was just asking about mobile broadband.would u mind just telling me whats the problem with this device and ubuntu?
<AlanBell> bug 653593
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 653593 in linux (Ubuntu) "Wireless rt3090sta/rt2860sta/rt2800pci problems" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653593
<AlanBell> ocean: sorry, what is the question relating to mobile broadband?
<ocean> i was just querying if this doesnt work, the mobile BB could be affected as well?
<AlanBell> mobile broadband is totally different to wifi
<ocean> AlanBell, thanks. is there any simple fix for it for me to try?
<ocean> i am am not skilled with commands
<AlanBell> ocean: can you just do lspci and paste here just the one line relating to the wifi card, it will say something like "RaLink RT2800" or similar in it
<ocean> AlanBell, RaLink RT3090 Wireless 802.11n 1T/1R PCIe
<AlanBell> ok, well you might want to subscribe to bug 653593 and click the "does this bug affect you" bit at the top
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 653593 in linux (Ubuntu) "Wireless rt3090sta/rt2860sta/rt2800pci problems" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653593
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> can somebody tell me if this patch file is ok or if the first part needs to be deleted or something please? http://git.iksaif.net/?p=acpi4asus.git;a=patch;h=7d220c2c2cd249763698db7483fb0e1e7a420f43;hp=b3c89998fae5a0aa447667a1b48256ac00d8b18c
<pr0ph3t> please!
<ali1234> you can't directly apply git diffs
<ali1234> so that patch file won't apply
<ali1234> so it's not OK
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, thank you very much
<pr0ph3t> I can not find the right file because I am not sure what I should be looking for
<pr0ph3t> can you give me a little help please?
<ali1234> you won't find "the right file" - you have to use git
<pr0ph3t> This is the address where what I thought the patch was: http://git.iksaif.net/?p=acpi4asus.git;a=commitdiff;h=7d220c2c2cd249763698db7483fb0e1e7a420f43;hp=b3c89998fae5a0aa447667a1b48256ac00d8b18c#patch1
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: what are you trying to achieve?
<ali1234> add that repository to your local git and then you can cherry pick the patch
<pr0ph3t> I am following a guide to recompile the kernel in my ubuntu 10.10 64bit so to patch to include support for my in-built 3g modem
<bigcalm> Can't it be added as a module?
<ali1234> you still need to patch the kernel even if it is a module if the module author didn't include an out-of-tree makefile
<bigcalm> Ah
<ali1234> which vendors almost never do when dumping code
<bigcalm> I left kernel building behind with gentoo many years ago ;)
 * Nafallo built a kernel last time in December ;-)
<pr0ph3t> I used to do it with slack and others
<mgdm> I did LFS a few years ago
<mgdm> that was an education ;)
<pr0ph3t> but I do not know how to patch it or even what exactly a patch is
<ali1234> there is pretty much no reason at all to compile your own kernel if you're not working on a new driver or platform
<bigcalm> mgdm: did it age you?
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: show me the guide
<ali1234> and i will tell you how to do it properly :)
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, http://www.question-defense.com/2010/09/26/how-to-recompile-your-ubuntu-10-10-kernel-for-patching-or-to-add-support-for-a-specific-device
<pr0ph3t> thanks :)
<ali1234> oh, so you don't have a specific guide for this hardware?
<mgdm> bigcalm: ... let's just say that Qt didn't compile very quickly on a Celeron 600
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, sadly not
<bigcalm> Hehe
<ali1234> i recommend in this case you don't follow that guide, use this guide instead: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<bigcalm> Yes, the days of leaving things to compile over night
<ali1234> specifically, follow the "use git" step
<ali1234> then build your own pristine kernel (ie identical to what ubuntu ships)
<mgdm> bigcalm: aye - these days, I seriously CBA for anything that I don't care a heck of a lot about
<ali1234> when you get that working i can assist you further
<mgdm> bigcalm: which, these days, basically means PHP + exts
<bigcalm> :D
<ali1234> if you get stuck just ask, if i'm still awake i'll try to assist
<popey> blimey
<popey> windows 8 will support arm
<pr0ph3t> oki, thanks sir
<mgdm> popey: just reading that - not surprised
<bigcalm> The embedders choice?
<mgdm> well, Id' have been surprised this time last year, but with all the chat about ARM notebooks etc
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> "smartbooks"
<ali1234> and tablets
<ali1234> expect windows 8 to be a walled-garden, like everything else
<gord> i keep hearing that windows is gonna start supporting arm, but that sounds crazy
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: after you clone the ubuntu git make sure to check out the tag corresponding to your current kernel version
<mgdm> Ooo, Jonathan Coulton on Spotify
<gord> i mean, windows without all the x86 applications you use on it is essentially useless
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: the advantage to using git here is that it will make it easier for you to keep in line with kernel updates, also the driver you want is stored in git so getting it will be easier
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, ok I am working on it right now
<mgdm> gord: I shudder to think what kind of insane emulation layer they might come up with ;)
<ali1234> mgdm: .net
<mgdm> .net isn't everything
<AlanBell> gord: sounds like windows CE
<ali1234> it's a VM, which is just a fancy name for an emulator
<ali1234> it just happens to be an emulator for an architecture that doesn't physically exist...
<gord> still no gingerbread for gord :(
<czajkowski> gord: bake some ?
<gord> czajkowski, android ;)
<czajkowski> gord: context is a wonderful thing
<czajkowski> :)
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, if you're still there I cloned it
<ali1234> 1 sec
<ali1234> ok...
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, am I looking at importing a patch now?
<ali1234> better to make sure you can actually build the kernel first
<ali1234> enter the git repo and do "git checkout -b mybranch Ubuntu-2.6.35-24.42"
<pr0ph3t> sure
<ali1234> then continue following the kernel building guide and make sure you can get a deb file with the kernel
<pr0ph3t> switched to a new branch
<ali1234> hmm that git patch you're looking at... it might be in mainline already
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well all.
<pr0ph3t> I did the fakeroot debian/rules clean with no errors
<pr0ph3t> and it isn't
<pr0ph3t> I even tried natty but no luck
<pr0ph3t> it's three months old I think that patch?
<ali1234> actually it is
<ali1234> it's even in the current ubuntu kernel
<ali1234> and i can prove it
<ali1234> in your ubuntu kernel repo type "git show 67d9228"
<ali1234> hmm
<pr0ph3t> not found
<ali1234> why do i have it...
<pr0ph3t> says: fatal: ambiguous argument '67d9228': unknown revision or path not in the working
<pr0ph3t> Use '--' to separate paths from revisions
<ali1234> well, ok, carry on building the kernel for now, i'll look into this
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-06
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, almost done with the rebuild, getting ready to reboot into new kernel
<ali1234> brb
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, it's taking a lot longer than I thought
<ali1234> building the kernel and all modules for x86 takes a long long time
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, I did not actually change anything in the configs
<pr0ph3t> I am doing it for amd64
<ali1234> that's probably even worse
<pr0ph3t> I should have selected only the stuff that I needed right?
<pr0ph3t> what is worse?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> building for 64 bit takes longer
<pr0ph3t> anyway, is this just a test? I will have to rebuild it after I apply the patch correct?
<ali1234> yes
<pr0ph3t> patch, correct?*
<pr0ph3t> I remember doing the recompiling a long time ago with slack and other distros
<ali1234> you're also building a deb now
<pr0ph3t> there was always something that wasn't quite the same after
<ali1234> that's why you don't change the config
<pr0ph3t> but you had to at the time
<pr0ph3t> it was fun, adding all the experimental modules etc.
<ali1234> why o why does the bttv driver suck so bad?
<pr0ph3t> this is the problem I am trying to deal with by the way: http://dev.iksaif.net/issues/108
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, how old is the driver?
<ali1234> not very old?
<pr0ph3t> hmmm
<ali1234> if you look here: http://git.iksaif.net/?p=acpi4asus.git;a=shortlog;h=7d220c2c2cd249763698db7483fb0e1e7a420f43
<ali1234> you can see where linus merged the driver into mainline
<ali1234> then there are 4 commits more recent than that
<the1knight> hello
<the1knight> hello
<the1knight> i need a little help with audacity, can anyone help?
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, it doesn't say anywhere that the patch for WWAN has been merged
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, it just says that other things have been fixed, but that is still untested
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, last comment is on 2010-10-10, I read about a guy that tried the patch and said it worked so
<the1knight> can anyone read my text please?
<pr0ph3t> the1knight, say what it is you need help with specifically and someone might be able to help
<the1knight> oh ok
<the1knight> In audacity I have no navigation menu, e.g file, view etc
<the1knight> uninstalled and re-installed but still the same
<the1knight> problem is on two computers both running 10.10
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: i'm looking at the file in ubuntu maverick kernel and it has that patch, at least parts of it
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, the problem is that this machine has wlan, bluetooth and wwan controlled by a series of RFSWITCHES
<pr0ph3t> the one for 3G just doesn't turn it on
<pr0ph3t> so it is there but cannot be used
<ali1234> it doesn't matter; that patch is already present on the maverick kernel
<pr0ph3t> they fixed and implemented the switches for wlan and bluetooth though
<ali1234> you need to report a new bug i guess
<ali1234> hmm waaaaaait
<pr0ph3t> they fixed part of it
<ali1234> i am on wrong branch
<ali1234> yes, maverick kernel does not have this
<pr0ph3t> which kernel you were looking at?
<ali1234> asus-laptop branch
<ali1234> the thing is, that exact patch from the bug report is no longer in the tree
<ali1234> it's been cleaned and commited properly
<ali1234> i just need to track it down
<pr0ph3t> so there is a asus-laptop branch
<ali1234> it;s on acpi4asus branch as well
<pr0ph3t> could I use that kernel then?
<ali1234> ah here we are: ba1ff5be52163a97ac4ce8bc51beae2c96861a43
<ali1234> this is the equivalent version of that patch
<ali1234> so you need to add that patch into maverick kernel...
<ali1234> let's see if it applies clean...
<the1knight> In audacity I have no navigation menu, e.g file, view etc. uninstalled and re-installed but still the same.  problem is on two computers both running 10.10
<ali1234> i wonder if this patch is in mainline...
<ali1234> it's quite old so it might be
<pr0ph3t> the1knight, have you tried pressing alt+f?
<ali1234> it is in linus' tree...
<the1knight> no but i will, hold on
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: ok this patch is in linux 2.6.37 which was released today :)
<pr0ph3t> it maybe just superfluous for the generic kernel, I have an asus-laptop
<ali1234> specifically it looks like it went in to rc6
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, oh my, I tried the 2.6.37 a couple of days ago
<the1knight> pressed alt+f. it doesnt give me the menu bar but it does bring up file, for save as etc, if you see what i mean
<ali1234> pr0ph3t: which version?
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, not sure
<ali1234> by a "couple of days" do you actually mean 2 and a half weeks?
<ali1234> rc6 was packaged for ubuntu on 16th december
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, I installed the alpha of natty
<ali1234> !info linux natty
<lubotu3> linux (source: linux-meta): Generic complete Linux kernel.. In component main, is optional. Version 2.6.37.11.13 (natty), package size 2 kB, installed size 32 kB (Only available for i386 amd64 all armel powerpc)
<ali1234> hmm... did you install all updates?
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, I didn't try to connect with 3g
<ali1234> perhaps this patch simply does not fix your problem...
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, I could just boot into 2.6.37 then
<ali1234> it's definitely worth a try, but ensure that the natty kernel is newer than rc6
<the1knight> using alt+f allows me to navigate across using arrow keys but the actual menu bar remains hidden
<ali1234> hopefully they will package up the final release asap
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, thanks very much for your help
<ali1234> i'm not really sure it will solve your problem entirely... do you have the exact same model as the bug reporter?
<the1knight> sorry im new to this, ill try again
<the1knight> pr0ph3t - using alt+f allows me to navigate across using arrow keys but the actual menu bar remains hidden
<pr0ph3t> the1knight, try holding the alt key and click on the audacity window moving it downwards, the menu is not visible because it is out of the screen
<pr0ph3t> below the panel
<the1knight> ok
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, yes it is the only model with built-in 3g
<ali1234> ok, maybe you will be all set then
<ali1234> there should be a unofficial backport of 2.6.37 to maverick too
<ali1234> if you don't want to risk using the alpha/beta test versions
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, download and boot the new kernel in maverick?
<ali1234> here there are unofficial mainline kernel packages: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/
<ali1234> there's no 2.6.37 final release for maverick yet, but hopefully it will show up
<ali1234> failing that you can just make your own
<ali1234> using a mainline kernel is less likely to go horribly wrong than using the beta versions of ubuntu natty
<ali1234> then you can upgrade proper when natty is released
<pr0ph3t> I wish I could help more with natty
<ali1234> hmm
<pr0ph3t> I tried it but I gave up pretty quickly
<the1knight> pr0ph3t - tried clicking on audacity window and moving it downwards but nothing happens. I think I might be able to get by though with what I have, unless there are other suggestions
<ali1234> you might actually be able to install this deb on maverick: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.37-natty/
<ali1234> i know it says natty... but it's only a kernel... there isn't much that can go wrong
<ali1234> and you can always go back to previous kernel from boot menu
<pr0ph3t> the1knight, press alt+click and move
<the1knight> ok
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, I'll keep the kernel I have now on grub
<ali1234> of course
<ali1234> always keep a known good kernel
<the1knight> pr0ph3t - no that just moves audacity around the screen
<pr0ph3t> plus I'll add that one and give it a try
<ali1234> actually i know why it says natty - it means it was built with natty toolchain (gcc)
<ali1234> that shouldn't hurt anything
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, I'm gonna have to wait to the end of the compilation though :P
<ali1234> ok... cherry picking the patch doesn't look to hard either
<ali1234> you just have to resolve a few conflicts
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, which conflicts?
<ali1234> the patch doesn't apply cleanly
<ali1234> so you have to fix it up a bit
<the1knight> pr0ph3t - ty for trying, i think i can manage with what i have
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, well the compilation should be about to finish
<ali1234> if you want to put the patch into the official maverick kernel this is what you would do: http://pastebin.com/qE4tq1bf
<ali1234> but i would try mainline first
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, when you talk about different branches, are you referring to actual kernels geared to specific platforms?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> a branch is a fork in the source history
<ali1234> it's a place to test out patches and new code
<ali1234> then linus merges all the branches into mainline
<ali1234> a branch is a specific git term
<ali1234> https://github.com/bard/sameplace/wiki/getting-started-with-git
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, I'm gonna try mainline first
<pr0ph3t> and then I'll patch the maverick kernel as well
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, booting 2.6.37 rc8, brb
<pr0ph3t> or not, it's still compiling
<ali1234> you're not compiling on a laptop are you? that will take ages...
<ali1234> btw why -rc8?
<ali1234> i can confirm it has the patch
<ali1234> but there is a final package
<ali1234> the one with out -rc (which means release candidate)
<pr0ph3t> on a laptop yes, it's just finished
<pr0ph3t> hi all, mobile broadband still not registered -_-
<pr0ph3t> I don't know what else to do, my 3g won't work
<nigelb> daubers: poke?
<nigelb> Morning TheOpenSourcerer :)
<MartijnVdS> whoa, you're up early :)
<nigelb> 7:30 is early? ;)
<nigelb> Besides its 1 pm in my TZ.
<MartijnVdS> it's 8:30 here, but still.. it FEELS early :)
<MartijnVdS> (.nl)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning nigelb Happy New Year to you.
<nigelb> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy New Year to you too :)
<nigelb> I'm looking for people who want to perhaps take a User Days session
<nigelb> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/CourseSuggestions
<Apacheuk> morning everyone
<bigcalm> Morning peeps (this is way too early)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi MartijnVd
<bigcalm> Do people normally get up at this time?
<bigcalm> It feels horrible
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: I get up about 06:15 usually.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: you crazy fool!
<bigcalm> I work from home and my office is next to the bedroom. I really don't need such an early start
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nah - If I didn't the kids wouldn't be ready for school and my wife would be still asleep due to lack of Tea.
<TheOpenSourcerer> My office is next to the kitchen ;-)
<bigcalm> Ah, one of the joys of not having children ;)
<bigcalm> I always defrost GF's car for her so she had one less thing to stress about in the morning
<bigcalm> But today she wanted to go in extra early
<bigcalm> Treated myself to breakfast from McDonalld's. Regretting it
<TheOpenSourcerer> Eewww "treat" and McDonalds don't really go together do they?
<bigcalm> Not really, no
<dwatkins> Kids think they do, if they're led to believe so.
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: all set?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I am.
<AlanBell> ok, I will pop round shortly
<TheOpenSourcerer> ok
<AlanBell> know where we are going?
<TheOpenSourcerer> mitcham
<AlanBell> near St Georges, I know the way there
<DJones> Morning all
<screen-x> morning :)
<bigcalm> Morning kids :)
<FND> good morning
<FND> any tips on upgrading to 2.6.36 (not 37) kernel on Maverick (short of compiling it)? I've tried the kernel PPA, but that didn't seem to have anything useful
<screen-x> morning bigcalm, you've adopted the parent role?
<bigcalm> screen-x: I like to make people think that they aren't as old as they really are ;)
<screen-x> bigcalm: awww :)
<bigcalm> Or 'kids' could be more like 'kids in the hall'
<DJones> And there was me thinking it was a reference to AlanBell's naughty kids from yesterday
<bigcalm> DJones: do you feel like a naughty child?
<DJones> bigcalm: Definately :)
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Do you need a nanny? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQZEvBrrv7k
<DJones> I always feel like I'm naughty and still act like a child (So my wife keeps saying)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> I still don't feel like an adult
<screen-x> FND: prob have to use a package from the kernel ppa for natty
<FND> screen-x: how do I get to that?
<screen-x> FND: see versions on this page http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/info/kernel-version-map.html
 * FND clicks
<FND> I'm not sure I can make sufficient sense of this
<FND> I've been to http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/v2.6.36.2-natty/ before - but didn't dare to use the .deb there (also, no PAE AFAICT)
<FND> so I guess I should compile it myself after all
<screen-x> FND: building your own is fine, but build it as a package rather than a standard kernel image so you can install/remove as normal.
<FND> is there an authoritative guide? I found some, but they were more or less random blogs
<screen-x> FND: Sadly documentation seems to be messy, the community kernel compilation wiki page isn't great.
<screen-x> FND: this page looks helpful: http://blog.avirtualhome.com/2010/11/06/how-to-compile-a-ubuntu-10-10-maverick-kernel/
<FND> thanks screen-x!
<daubers> nigelb: Hello
<screen-x> and to be fair to the wiki, that page is linked from https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Kernel/Compile
<screen-x> morning daubers
<daubers> Morning :)
<nigelb> daubers: heya
<nigelb> daubers: would you like you do a user days session?
<nigelb> daubers: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDaysTeam/CourseSuggestions
<daubers> nigelb: When is it?
<czajkowski> Aloha
<nigelb> daubers: Jan 29th weekend
<daubers> nigelb: I'll have to check my calender
<daubers> nigelb: And she's off at Uni at the moment :)
<bigcalm> Good morning czajkowski *hugs* :)
<nigelb> daubers: haha, ok
<nigelb> daubers: get back to me if you decided to have a go at it :)
<czajkowski> bigcalm: ello
<daubers> nigelb: Remind me this evening and I'll check
<nigelb> daubers: great, will do :)
<bigcalm> Wanted: sleep
<nigelb> bigcalm: About 200$ per minute.  Rates are high.
<nigelb> :-P
<bigcalm> Wah
<czajkowski> My talk for FOSDEM got accepted :D
<MartijnVdS> what's it about?
<czajkowski> Is the UK Government backing Free Software?
<dwatkins> nice one, czajkowski :D
<czajkowski> dwatkins: indeed, now I just need to write it...
<dwatkins> czajkowski: pah, just make it up as you go along ;)
<DJones> czajkowski: And persuade the Government to go with the plan :)
<dwatkins> who needs well-weitten notes and preparation....?
<dwatkins> *written
<dwatkins> see, not me
<popey> good morning
<daubers> morning popey
<dwatkins> hiya
<bigcalm> Hi popey and other awake people
<screen-x> ZZZzzzzzzzz.....
<bigcalm> I want to sleep!
<bigcalm> Curse my kindness
 * dwatkins hands bigcalm a keyboard pillow
<nigelb> Morning popey
<bigcalm> dwatkins: one that lets me code with my nose?
<popey> Schnozbuntu
<JamesTait> Gooooooooooood morning people!
<dwatkins> bigcalm: no, you only have the neural interface with Ubuntu 32767.04, I'm afraid. Please be carefult o turn it off when actually sleeping in case you end up coding Alice in Wonderland in COBOL whilst you sleep...
<bigcalm> dwatkins: I'm reading AiW on my Kindle at the moment. I fear this may happen soon
<popey> AiW?
<popey> oh
<popey> duh
<bigcalm> :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: watch out for signed integer overflow :)
<dwatkins> bigcalm: excellent choice both in reader and book
<dwatkins> popey: it took me a minute, yeah
<bigcalm> popey: I gave my parents my Kindle to play with. Neither are interested in getting one. Really surprised me
<dwatkins> bigcalm: the Kindle appears to have been the most popular present I got my other half, she can't put it down
<dwatkins> the free 3G is an awesome idea, especially with internet browsing working (all be it badly at times)
<bigcalm> dwatkins: my GF was over the moon with the earings and necklace I got her. Quite pleased with myself
<davmor2> morning all
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<dwatkins> bigcalm: not everyone wears jewellery, of course ;)
<dwatkins> not every woman, that is
<dwatkins> having said that, I already got her a necklace recently
<screen-x> bigcalm: score!
<screen-x> I am very bad at choosing non-functional decorative things.
<bigcalm> Same here
<bigcalm> I think it's an engineer's trait
<dwatkins> bigcalm: I also got her a rubik's cube phone charm, which was half-way between retro chic and bling ;)
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> Cute
<dwatkins> I'm terrible at choosing jewwllery, hence not having gotten her much of it
<dwatkins> I did get her a bass clef necklace because she plays the trombone, and she had a treble cleff one because she couldn't find the bass one at the time, hooray for google
<bigcalm> GF was with me when I saw the set. Asked her if she liked it. "Yes but I wouldn't want to pay that for it". So I nipped back the next day and bought it. That was a couple of months before Xmas
<dwatkins> sounds like a familiar scenario
<dwatkins> We visited a shop in Edinburgh which had some really nice artwork on notebooks and water bottles, but I never got around to going back there to get it, turns out they are online, though: gorjussart (although sadly the artist has been ill lately)
<bigcalm> How sweet it looks
<dwatkins> yeah bigcalm - we're popping to the same shop again on Sunday to get a couple things, we might even visit their shop which I think is in Glasgow
<kazade> good morning all
<screen-x> morning kazade
<kernix360> mornin
<bigcalm> mgdm: butt load of files updated in svn
<BigRedS> Hm. Diff appears to be showing differences that aren't different.
<bigcalm> Could be a new line issue
<dwatkins> or a file format problem, e.g. DOS vs linux end of line
<BigRedS> ah yeah
<dwatkins> oh, you said that, sorry
<bigcalm> alias svndw='svn diff --diff-cmd diff -x -uw'
<BigRedS> nah, it's config files between last night's backup and the one's apache's complaining about
<BigRedS> actually, just -qw does what I'm after, really
<bigcalm> :)
<BigRedS> I've just remembered I went through and indented a bunch of the files trying to make them readable, and so that's what diff was picking up
<bigcalm> Computers are never wrong!
<bigcalm> User error. Replace user and press any key to continue
<screen-x> bigcalm: reminds me, I need to watch tron :)
<BigRedS> bigcalm: yup! :)
<daubers> End of Line
<screen-x> daubers: all change?
<bigcalm> GF keeps falling asleep whilst watching Tron. Not sure if it's worth it to go and see Tron: Legacy ot not
<bigcalm> s/ot/or
<bigcalm> If we do, it'll be in 2d
<daubers> screen-x: That was what the MCP always said
<daubers> bigcalm: Definatley!
<screen-x> mcp?
<bigcalm> Master Control Programme
<screen-x> knackered powerbook that I was bidding for is now up to Â£40, not paying that for it :(
<popey> http://www.opensourceexpo.co.uk/
 * popey pokes AlanBell 
<bigcalm> Erm, Program
<screen-x> ahh.. you can see I haven't watched tron yet ;-)
<bigcalm> screen-x: the original one
<bigcalm> Not at all?
<daubers> screen-x: The original one is class!
<bigcalm> How shameful
<screen-x>  /o\
<czajkowski> a bomb seems to have gone off in my inbox from one person, and a mailing lists 18 maisl since 6 pm yesterday :s
<popey> yay
<popey> thats good is it?
<czajkowski> no
<czajkowski> not at all
<popey> oh :(
<czajkowski> I now have more conference calls to take part in next week
<screen-x> czajkowski: at least they aren't video calls?
<czajkowski> true
<bigcalm> I thought you liked calls
<czajkowski> bigcalm: I do, but I'm on a lot of them lately
<czajkowski> which is good...
<czajkowski> but my timetable is getting a tad full
<bigcalm> 11am - time for TEA!
<screen-x> Heh, I'm not great at conference calls, I tend let everybody else do the talking..
<popey> we always use fake names on conf calls here
<popey> yesterday I was pol pot
<BigRedS> haha!
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> or we give eachothers names
<popey> which is good fun when they do a roll call
<screen-x> popey: who do you work for (apart from yourself...) there always seems to comedy going on..
<popey> "Alan, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean"
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Benedictus"
<czajkowski> beats the :Alan Alan Alan Alan Dean roll I suspect
<daubers> "Hugh, Pugh, Barney, McGrue, Cuthbert, Dibble, Grub"
<popey> :)
<screen-x> \o/ I'm first
<bigcalm> 3rd from last, but not quite
<screen-x> Cuthbart?
<bigcalm> screen-x: whois me
<screen-x> ahh +son
<bigcalm> That's something I've noticed about Freenode; most people tend to put their real name in that field
<daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3P5wcCuNZbY
<daubers> Is what I was referring to
<bigcalm> daubers: we know ;)
<bigcalm> I'm surprised they put out any fires, the speed they were going at
<DJones> daubers: That takes me back to my childhood
<brobostigon> morning all.
<bigcalm> Evening
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<DJones> Hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning DJones
 * daubers makes some coffee
<brobostigon> yummy
<MartijnVdS> good idea
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> when did I logout of here?
<bigcalm> Morning andylockran
<andylockran> morning
<popey> howdy howdy howdy
<andylockran> :)
<andylockran> wondering if anyone knows where to find the latest regarding LDAP writing from Thunderbird?
<screen-x> #ubuntu-uk.05.log:05-01-2011 21:51:06 -!- andylockran!~andylockr@genesis.zrmt.com has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<andylockran> screen-x: ta
<DJones> andylockran: Looks like 21:51 Remote host closed the connection
<andylockran> ta DJones
 * popey hugs everyone
<andylockran> right - LDAP addressbook writing in thunderbird
<popey> right, brainstorm...
<popey> suggestions for venues for oggcamp 2011?
<bigcalm> popey: tea to,e
<popey> not towns, specific locations
<andylockran> looks like the UI needs to support async events - so that's the blocker.
<bigcalm> time
<bigcalm> Anywhere that does good tea
 * popey adds that to his list
<screen-x> Can someone try loading springpadit.com in chrome-ish browser? Completely fails for me, despite working in ff.
<dwatkins> mmm, tea
 * dwatkins will be going to get a nice big mug of Earl Grey shortly
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: anything that doesn't work specifically?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I get the main page in chromium
<popey> wfm screen-x
<DJones> screen-x: Looks ok to me in chrome under windows
<popey> chrome on windows
<screen-x> page completely fails to appear for me, thanks for testing :)
<dwatkins> screen-x: not a DNS problem, I presume
<screen-x> popey: how big is the london hackspace after expansion?
<andylockran> popey: oggcamp.. dead in chome :)
<popey> not big enough
<andylockran> ooh
<andylockran> loaded
<popey> :)
<andylockran> just takes a while
<popey> blamefab
<popey> his host
<screen-x> dwatkins: I don't think so, as works in ff
<andylockran> popey: madlab manchester?
<andylockran> http://madlab.org.uk/
<popey> needs to be 3/4 rooms with over 100 capacity
<andylockran> how many sq feet?
<popey> no idea, depends how big 100 people are
<MartijnVdS> are they americans?
<popey> hehe
<screen-x> heh
 * popey notes maco is mercan and is probably the smallest person I have met
<andylockran> 200 sq feet per person is recommended for offices
<andylockran> crikey
<czajkowski> popey: surely mat revell is
<czajkowski> he's ickle
<andylockran> bars recommnd 15-50 sq feet
<BigRedS> Hmm. I need to get a list of installed packages off a backup of a system, so I can't just got dpkg -l (actually, I need the version of a single package). I'm guessing it's under /var/cache/apt somewhere, anyone know exactly where off the top of their head?
<andylockran> so for 100 people, we're looking between 3000-5000 sq foot of space
<andylockran> MadLab is 1000 sq feet - so too small
<popey> BigRedS: dpkg --get-selections > file_containing_a_nice_list_of_installed_stuff.txt
<popey> BigRedS: you can't chroot it?
<screen-x> BigRedS: /var/lib/dpkg/status ?
<BigRedS> popey: Nah, it's a drive plugged in to a running system, and I can't take that system down
<popey> you could chroot it on the running system?
<BigRedS> oh, yeah
<BigRedS> thought up a completely different, convoluted way of using chroot to do my first idea...
<screen-x> BigRedS: cat /var/lib/dpkg/status |grep -B1 "Status: install ok installed" |grep Package |sed 's/Package: //'
<screen-x> if you can't chroot..
<BigRedS> screen-x: I just vimmed and /'d a couple of times :)
<screen-x> :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod morning
<czajkowski> davmor2: f'way
<shauno> bit late now, but dpkg has a --admindir option to deal with that.  dpkg --admindir=/backups/var/lib/dpkg --get-selections
<screen-x> ooh didn't know that, thanks shauno
<BigRedS> shauno: aha! I was hoping for one of those, but none of my searches in man dpkg found it
 * BigRedS notes that down for future reference
<popey> thats handy!
<czajkowski> http://www.cafepress.co.uk/+a_failure_to_plan_on_your_part,311781262 should be worn to all client meetings
<bigcalm> I've met very few clients who admit to being wrong
<bigcalm> #ot -  http://imgur.com/yydvc
<andylockran> in the bind config, should I put multiple NS records?
<screen-x> andylockran: when delegating a subdomain?
<andylockran> got the line: example.com. IN NS ns.example.com.
<andylockran> if I have multiple NS for example.com, do I put them here (eg example.com. IN NS ns1.example.com.
<screen-x> andylockran: yeah
<andylockran> ta
<screen-x> then add glue records, as the nameservers are in zone
<andylockran> screen-x: and I'll add the glue records with my registrar?
<screen-x> andylockran: yes, that sounds better, I was still in delegation mode..
<andylockran> no worries
<andylockran> I'm happy.  Though my registrar wanted to charge me Â£50 for adding glue records
<screen-x> :(
<andylockran> anyone with 123-reg .. know what they charge?
<screen-x> I just started using gandi.net as recommended by someone in here ( MartijnVdS I think)
<bigcalm> Glue?
<screen-x> Seems pretty good so far, they let you edit your actual zone file with a text area :)
<screen-x> bigcalm: a records for name servers that are in zone.
<bigcalm> Ok
<bigcalm> I make do with joker.com but don't mess with DNS that much
<daubers> Wootables
<daubers> Starting to get the hang of this TCP/IP communications thing
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: hm? :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: was it you that recommend gandi.net to me? I'm now using them and happy :)
 * BigRedS has been reccomended gandi for domain registration
<BigRedS> I very much like their tagline
<BigRedS> and the fact that they do t-shirts...
<screen-x> heh NSF#UUK
 * daubers uses gandi
<daubers> Nice being able to directly edit your own zone file
<bigcalm> Also nice to have pushy clicky options
<daubers> yup
<bigcalm> Getting old again
<bigcalm> Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council - interesting
<andylockran> I think I'm about to break my DNS for a bit :p
<screen-x> andylockran: what are you up to?
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/183971 golly
<popey> 2TB for 70 quid
 * bigcalm slaps Clear Hand for being slightly silly
<bigcalm> It doesn't know about price reductions I see
<bigcalm> Oh, it would still have been cheaper on ebuyer anyway
<bigcalm> Why is it bothering to tell me about Amazon then?
<andylockran> do gandhi do free transferS?
<bigcalm> You could use everydns
<screen-x> andylockran: I don't think they charge for the transfer itself, you just pay for a years registration when you transfer.
<andylockran> screen-x: that looks good - and do they allow you to create glue records for free?
<andylockran> if so, I'm there :)
 * screen-x checks
<screen-x> yeah, there is a glue record management section, that doesn't want any payment.
<andylockran> awesome
 * MartijnVdS sniffs some glue records
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: dns abuse can kill instantly
<BigRedS> screen-x: subject to TTL, surely?
<screen-x> :p
<MartijnVdS> I've seen 10-day TTLs + complaining customers ("I've moved my domain elsewhere but it doesn't work")
<MartijnVdS> :(
<bigcalm> We sometimes tell clients to edit their hosts file if they are that desprate
<andylockran> free SSL with gandhi for a year too
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: "My customers can't see the site!"
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: and that's after explaining ttl
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: little you can do with such clients
<MartijnVdS> Euthanasia.
<bigcalm> Our default statement prior to a DNS change is "can take up to 3 days but will usually happen within 1"
<bigcalm> Having a 10 day TTL seems a bit extreem
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: they set it themselves
<bigcalm> HAHA
 * MartijnVdS has 5-minute TTLs everywhere
<MartijnVdS> bandwidth is cheap.. and my sites aren't as popular as the googles/amazons of this world.
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: the rfc says anything less than or equal to 30 min may be interpreted as 30 min
<BigRedS> not that it makes any odds, really
<BigRedS> but I tend to have either 0 or 3hr
<MartijnVdS> "MAY" ;)
<MartijnVdS> the keyword meaning "let's not implement this unless we have time to spare and everything else is perfect"
<BigRedS> haha
<BigRedS> oh if onyl
<BigRedS> er, only
<Azelphur> popey: got my logitech quickcam, seems to work well :)
<popey> cool
<popey> what the max res?
<Azelphur> cheese shows up to 800x600
<popey> it should go much higher than that
<Azelphur> *shrug* maybe cheese doesn't support the higher resolutions?
<popey> !info guvcview
<lubotu3> guvcview (source: guvcview): GTK+ base UVC Viewer. In component universe, is extra. Version 1.4.1-1 (maverick), package size 195 kB, installed size 672 kB
<popey> use that
<Azelphur> popey: that also only shows up to 800x600
<popey> what does lsusb say it is Azelphur ?
<popey> Bus 001 Device 003: ID 046d:0990 Logitech, Inc. QuickCam Pro 9000
<popey> thats mine
<Azelphur> popey: Bus 002 Device 018: ID 046d:0809 Logitech, Inc. Webcam Pro 9000 same
<popey> not same
<Azelphur> oh yea, slightly different
<Azelphur> gtx 570, 12GB DDR3 1600, 40GB SSD and Asus Sabertooth X58 on my bed :D
<popey> Azelphur: http://www.quickcamteam.net/devices/logitech_uvc_frame_format_list.pdf
<screen-x> heh ups reckon my parcel is in swansea, its actual in my office in bridgend :)
<popey> hmm, that reckons mine can do 1280x720
<Azelphur> popey: it says mine can do 1600x1200 o.O
<popey> same here
<popey> I didn't mean 1280x720 was max
<popey> just that it was a resolution I was after and didnt realise it did it
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> doesn't matter too much anyway, there arn't any video conferencing solutions I know of that broadcast at anywhere near these resolutions anyway
<brobostigon> seven year itch, channel 4, :)
<popey> i have never used my for video conferencing
<Azelphur> haha
<andylockran> just for skyping with people :p  like me
<popey> well.. http://popey.com/webcam/
<andylockran> also..
<BigRedS> i still think that's one of the most peculiarly positioned webcams I've ever seen :)
<andylockran> I'd quite like to see a head pop up behind the garden gate
<popey> it's on the slant a bit
<screen-x> popey you need a web interface for turning the fountain on :)
<popey> i do
<screen-x> an old switching ups with the battery removed should do it :)
<bigcalm> popey: window needs cleaning ;)
<BigRedS> nah, should be more cryptically triggered
<BigRedS> whenever access_log has a prime number of lines, the fountain is on or somthing
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<screen-x> hi pr0ph3t
<pr0ph3t> can you help me out please, I can't connect using mobile broadband, it can't register apparently
<pr0ph3t> I am running Ubuntu maverick 10.10 64bit but with 2.6.37-rc8 kernel because a patch to support my hardware was released with this kernel
<pr0ph3t> rc6 actually
<pr0ph3t> the hardware is recognised but it doesn't register the network or something, on windows it works fine
<screen-x> pr0ph3t: have you gone through the network manager mobile broadband setup process? It asks you which network your using and some other Qs..
<pr0ph3t> screen-x, yes but I don't know how to debug it, syslog?
<popey> I'd run network manager from the command line in --no-daemon mode
<pr0ph3t> popey, I run nmcli dev and I get ttyUSB0 gsm disconnected
<pr0ph3t> popey, that's my 3g modem
<pr0ph3t> also I downloaded sakis3g and it gets stuck at the same point, it doesn't register it
<pr0ph3t> so it says that I can define the isp from the command line FORCE_ISP="foo"
<pr0ph3t> I tried changing foo with O2 - UK, the code for it or the apn
<pr0ph3t> by doing ./sakis3g FORCE_ISP="O2 - UK" etc but nothing changed, I could not go past the registering phase
<popey> like I say, I'd run network manager from the command line
<pr0ph3t> popey nmcli stands for network manager command line
<popey> yes, I know. never mind I was talking about running the network manager daemon. feel free to ignore m
<popey> *me
<pr0ph3t> popey, I have nm-applet in gnome, is that what you are referring to?
<popey> no
<popey> NetworkManager
<popey> as in.. sudo killall NetworkManager, sudo NetworkManager --no-daemon
<screen-x> are sterlingxs going out of business? they appear to have sold out of everything :(
<popey> phone them up?
<popey> they do pick up the phone
<popey> nice people
<screen-x> Yeah, I had a chat last time I ordered, and asked for an extra PSU :)
<popey> heh
<pr0ph3t> popey, can't kill the process, it auto restarts
<screen-x> no answer on the phone :(
<popey> yeah, you can
<popey> screen-x: :(
<BigRedS> pr0ph3t: /etc/init.d/network-manager stop
<BigRedS> rather than killall nm-applet or somesuch
<popey> and kill the applet too
<BigRedS> oh, and that, then
<pr0ph3t> popey, ok done, the device is recognised and managed by network manager
<popey> and when you try to connect do you get any more debug info from the NetworkManager window?
<pr0ph3t> popey, can I pass any commands now? I have wifi on auto so that's what it did after activating, deactivating and changing status to the gsm device
<pr0ph3t> how do I do it, from another terminal?
<popey> do what?
<pr0ph3t> popey, I managed to get a response from network manager, it starts working on the device
<pr0ph3t> popey, but then it says GSM connection failed
<czajkowski> http://blog.dexy.it/315 so happy to see stuff like this happen :D
<pr0ph3t> : (32) Unknown reason :S
<pr0ph3t> popey, all this after completion of stage 1 of 5
<popey> :(
<pr0ph3t> it then deactivates the device
<dutchie> czajkowski: that is pretty cool
<czajkowski> dutchie: yup, she's very smart!
<popey> she is!
<screen-x> cool :)
<czajkowski> should should this to the Ubuntu doc team, see documentaion :)
<daubers> Hmm... the czajkowski output protocol needs better docs
<czajkowski> daubers: marking invalid :)
<daubers> :p
<MartijnVdS> you accidentally a word word
<Laney> i can't decide whether i like quora or not
<daubers> My need to abuse quickly again later. Throw together a quick gui to test the tcp comms stuff I'm building
<Laney> it seems like a more clunky stackexchange
<screen-x> Quora annoyed me as on its front page it says "login with one of these services".... but what it really means is "create an account using your username from one of these services"
<Laney> yeah
<Laney> and automatically add all of your contacts
<MartijnVdS> and send those people a "JOIN US NOW" email?
<nperry> Where are the settings for gnome-display-properties, since installing NVidia i get an error message every boot saying unable to set settings
<nperry> by
<screen-x> nperry: I'm not sure, but I'd assume gconf or xorg.conf
<nperry> screen-x: Can't seem to find it in gconf, and nvidia-settings replaced the whole xorg.conf file
<screen-x> nperry: which settings are you looking for? X configuration?
<nperry> No. Orginally I was using Nouveau but needed 3d support, so swapped to nvidia. Now everytime I log in a nofity comes up saying unable to start gnome-display-properties settings
<nperry> (Sorry didn't really explain the situation)
<screen-x> nperry: odd, maybe do a ps when that notification is displayed, and work out which process is causing it?
<screen-x> Is there a  more intelligent way to get PID from an X window?
<MartijnVdS> check ~/.xsession-errors
<MartijnVdS> it should have stderr from all processes started
<screen-x> ahh, for info, to find the PID, run  "xprop |grep PID"  in a terminal then click a window.
<nperry> The notify-osd isn't going to stay that long...
<MartijnVdS> have you checked the .xsession-errors log?
<nperry> MartijnVdS: Yes, can't seem to see anything in there
 * MartijnVdS purges gwibber on another machine
<MartijnVdS> stupid crashy piece of...
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> gwibber dev folks are really good if you do have a bug they will look at it
<czajkowski> they are usually plagued by my machine at times
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: not the maverick version
<AlanBell> afternoon all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> popey: yes, the expo is on my todo list
<popey> AlanBell: need help?
<AlanBell> not yet, I will follow up with Maggie
<czajkowski> woo plugfest nearly ready to go live...
<nperry> Hello iMacros in Chrome, time to loop you 2000 time to delete my facebook wall posts
<nperry> Was also a big facebook friend cull yesterday 350 down to 59 :)
<andylockran> crikey
 * MartijnVdS has delete sprees like that sometimes
<andylockran> hey guys - just looking at BIND DNS views for internal/external DNS lookups
<bigcalm> And?
<andylockran> looks good :)
<bigcalm> :)
<kvarley> Oooo...OTR plugin has a java library, somebody put it on android? =O
<kvarley> *=P
<kvarley> For 11.04, is unity shipped with the desktop disc too?
<dutchie> kvarley: as i understand it, the desktop and netbook images are being merged, so yes
<popey> kvarley: unity is the default desktop
<kvarley> popey & dutchie: Ah ok thanks, that'll be interesting
<popey> indeed it will
<sectorb> chaps, why does this not work? ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com
<sectorb>  6 Jan 16:44:00 ntpdate[6646]: no server suitable for synchronization found
 * czajkowski is feckin shattered 
<czajkowski> yay for working from home tomorrow
<sectorb> i can ping ntp.ubuntu.com, i suspect something is wonky with ntpdate
<kvarley> czajkowski Lucky you, nice way to end the working week
<popey> alan@mrevo:~$ sudo ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com 6 Jan 16:47:05 ntpdate[10079]: adjust time server 91.189.94.4 offset 0.000016 sec
<popey> works for me
<diplo> sectorb, could try ntpdate uk.pool.ntp.org
 * popey tickles mgdm 
<seeker> :O tickling!
<gord> i thought i had a hot pixel on my nice pretty LCD screen, turned out to be a full stop. never felt more stupid than i did just then
<moreati> gord: I've fallen for that many times :)
 * MichealH laughs and points at gord then hides
<andylockran> ok, so DNS views.
<andylockran> I've got an internal view, and external view
<andylockran> is it possible to have those addresses that don't appear in an internal view fall back to the external view ip?
<andylockran> http://www.howtoforge.com/two_in_one_dns_bind9_views <- the solution I've found appears to use the external zone as an include, with extra addresses available for internal addresses
<andylockran> but I'd like to override some (i.e. if you connect to ldap.example.com inside the network, you get an internal IP, but from outside, you get a different one)
<bigcalm> Is there an LTS every 2 years?
<Andy_> Hi, can anyone help me with 10.10 ignoring xorg,conf gamma setting please?
<andylockran> if I have two A records, which one will take precedent
<moreati> bigcalm: more or less, yes
<bigcalm> moreati: so I can't be sure that in April of every even year will bring me a LTS release?
<Azelphur> just swapped out a 1TB for a 2TB in my mythtv box, up to a total of 3TB storage now \o/
<bigcalm> That's a lot of porn
<moreati> bigcalm: no, it isn't guaranteed. 6.06 came out in June
<Azelphur> bigcalm: indeed
<bigcalm> moreati: I see
<bigcalm> Is 12.04 intended to be a LTS?
<moreati> bigcalm: pass, that maight not have been decided yet
 * mgdm looks at popey 
<bigcalm> moreati: the server living with my parents is running 9.04 and I want to get it onto LTS releases. My musing was, do I put it onto 10.04.1 this weekend or wait for something else
<bigcalm> Taken from http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu "The Ubuntu team broke new ground in committing to a programme of scheduled releases on a predictable six-month basis. It was decided that every fourth release, issued on a two-year basis, would receive long-term support (LTS)."
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/January%202010/IMG_20110106_181654.jpg
<Azelphur> today is a good day.
<Azelphur> just waiting for the CPU now :p
<bigcalm> That's a big box for a gfx card
<Azelphur> it's a big gfx card :)
<Andy_> exit
<gord> Azelphur, gtx570? geeeeeez, your not gonna have to upgrade for a long time
<Azelphur> ;)
<Azelphur> it was very nearly a GTX 580 until amazon hiked the price by Â£140
<gord> okay so you'll be shipping the gpu to me right?
<hazrpg> wow... took ages for me to ghost my account properly lol
<hazrpg> clearly not with it lol
<hazrpg> got a question for you guys
<hazrpg> trying to scan my mates laptops hard drive for bad sectors (and to fix any if found) - how would I do that with ubuntu?
<hazrpg> don't know the ubuntu command for that
<dutchie> badblocks
<dutchie> or use the disk utility from system->admin in recent releases
<hazrpg> ah brilliant, thanks :)
<hazrpg> haven't updated my ubuntu at home yet to 10.10 yet
<Azelphur> what's the tech they use at shop doorways to stop people stealing stuff? the alarm. Is it RFID?
<dutchie> i thought it was metal detectors
<gord> but then they would go off all the time
<Azelphur> ^
<dutchie> yeah, that's why it was only "i thought"
<directhex> Michael_Judd, boo
<moreati> Azelphur: a varient of it. The security tag has a coil of wire that the door pillars can dettect
<Michael_Judd> :) - noticed you on here ...
<Azelphur> I see :P
<moreati> Azelphur: I think the difference is that RFID is much closer range, and the RFID tag actually transmits an ID rather than just resonating at the chosen frequency
<Azelphur> fun
<gord> Azelphur, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_tags interesting read
<moreati> security tag says I'm here, RFID says I am number 1234
<Azelphur> I see
<Azelphur> ty :D
<moreati> most welcome
<gord> really shouldn't of put all my dishes in the dish washer right before tea time =\
<dutchie> i have to say, using unity on this netbook really makes me wish it was touchscreen
<dutchie> old mutter unity, that is
<czajkowski> AlanBell: can you pm me the conf call numbers :(
<brobostigon> evening all.
<hazrpg> does badblocks actually fix the bad blocks too? or does it just check to see if there are any?
<dutchie> no, it just finds them iirc
<gord> you can't fix bad blocks, badblocks can however mark the blocks as bad (hense the name) and thus the filesystem will not use them
<gord> you can't recover the blocks though
<brobostigon> ok, tell my guys and gals. i am discussing here with my dad, why because of the cost difference, and hw differences and software differences, at the moment, a tablet by whatever make, at the moment has significant disadvanteges.
<ali1234> disadvantages compared to what?
<brobostigon> ali1234: compared to something like a standerd laptop or netbook.
<ali1234> well i can't really think of any
<ali1234> a laptop is basically a bad compromise
<brobostigon> less external ports, no dvd/cd drive,
<ali1234> they are too big and heavy to use anywhere but at a desk, yet they are too small to be as easy to use as a desktop pc
<ali1234> i haven't used my dvd burner for about 6 years
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I cant ring in
<ali1234> also tablets don't have less external ports than a netbook, they are about the same
<ali1234> a couple of usb ports
<ali1234> what more do you want?
<brobostigon> ali1234: iwant something with a real keyboard, where i am not limited by the software i can run.
<ali1234> buy a pc then duh
<gord> then you don't want a tablet brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> gord: no i dont.
<gord> thats okay! some people do want a tablet, thats okay too
<brobostigon> gord: iwas just saying to my dad, a touchscreen keyboard is going to be harder to type with, and he is going to be more  limited in the software he can use.
<ali1234> a tablet is not a PC, it has totally different use cases
<ali1234> look at the kindle for example
<ali1234> pretty much limited to reading books. does anyone care? no, because they bought it specifically for reading books
<gord> <3 my kindle, don't want to code on it ;)
<ali1234> or the ipod
<brobostigon> ali1234: a kindle is a low cost, ebook reader, and not capable of much more.
<gord> it actually is
<gord> just runs linux, you can write programs for it and everything
<ali1234> except for some half-assed apps, you are pretty much limited to listening to music of videos if you have a newer one... but thats ok because that's why people bought it
<brobostigon> gord: very, yes, :)
<ali1234> mobile phones are the same way
<brobostigon> i would rather have my eeepc anyday.
<DJones> brobostigon: Using an android phone with swype, that keyboard seem easier (to me) to use than any physical keyboard I've used in the past, its just going to be personal preference, if you want a physical keyboard then a tablet would be useless
<MartijnVdS> I like my Sony laptop
<ali1234> before the iphone app store only about 1% of people would install extra apps on their smartphone
<MartijnVdS> But I see the use of a tablet (and I already have an ebook reader)
<ali1234> because most people just don't care, they don't want the flexibility of a PC, they just want something that works when you buy it
<gord> i don't see the use of a tablet when i have a netbook, but i would love a netbook that transforms into a tablet
<brobostigon> DJones: agreed, and i think with my dads preferences, as ihave explanied to him, a touchscreen keyboard isnt really going to work for him.
<ali1234> what's wrong with touchscreen keyboards?
<ali1234> if you can't get along with a ts keyboard you are not going to like the tiny keyboard on a netbook either
<gord> no tactile sensation, touchscreens are laggy and innacurate
<ali1234> so good luck carrying around a full size USB keyboard with you all the time
<brobostigon> ali1234: it doesnt have the feel you get from a real keyboard, hence i have my htc dream, which has a proper real keybord,
<ali1234> gord: spoken like someone who has never used one
<gord> tiny netbook keyboards are a thousand times better
<gord> ali1234, erm well done at assuming there, i have and do use touchscreen keyboards
<ali1234> so, you claim there is "no tactile sensation" - this is completely false
<ali1234> as you would know if you had actually used one, the phone uses the built in vibrator to provide it
<gord> well there isn't, do you have a touch screen that can have keyboard imprints now?
<gord> ha no, thats not tactile sensation, thats vibrating
<ali1234> do you even know what the word tactile means?
<gord> you can't feel the edges of the keys
<brobostigon> atthe moment, 8pen seems to me, yo be the cloest to a logical touchscreen keyboard, if only i got some real tactile sensation from it,
<ali1234> because you can really feel the edges of keys on those chiclet keyboards that all mobile devices have
<gord> sure, i don't like those keyboards either, but we are talking about netbook keyboards here
<MartijnVdS> gord: http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss269/netbookc/macbook-unboxkeyboard.jpg
<MartijnVdS> my Sony has a keyboard like that, love it
<ali1234> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2204/2279596697_a774ef8018.jpg
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: yeah those suck ;)
<gord> MartijnVdS, heh yeah i hear people love those, i have never gotten along with them though, maybe i have weird fingers ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: sausage fingers 8-)
<gord> ali1234, yup i have a netbook that is like that, can feel the edges and type on it really well
<brobostigon> i am on my eeepc right now, can i run full blown debian on a tablet, and have a full blown keyboard, and run most full blown software, NO.
<MartijnVdS> I want a tablet that's just a web browser :)
<MartijnVdS> gmail, discogs, facebook
<ali1234> by definition a tablet does not have a keyboard
<gord> brobostigon, the keyboard maybe not, but i think you can do the other two, with a little hacking
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it could have a bluetooth keyboard option :)
<ali1234> or a usb keyboard
<brobostigon> gord: good point, probebly, yes,
<ali1234> http://vimeo.com/groups/687/videos/17230137
<brobostigon> gord: however i doubt, lets say with the IPAD, those popssibilities are there. however with pure darwin, the basis of ios/mac os x, my specs would be possible.
<gord> yeah i wouldn't use an ipad for hacking myself ;)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: galaxy tab? :)
<gord> maybe some cheep android tablet
<brobostigon> spoton MartijnVdS gord :)
<MartijnVdS> I've played with it a bit in a local store
<MartijnVdS> I think it's just a size too small
<MartijnVdS> It's only a little bigger than my nexus one :)
 * gord grumbles something about his N1 still not having gingerbread
<moreati> what's the query? iPad sized device good for hacking?
<brobostigon> this is why, my htc dream, has a very differnent purpose, to my  eeepc, but i dont try and do similer FULL BLOWN tasks on my htc dream as i do on my eeepc.
<brobostigon> even though, i can run fullblown debian on my htc dream,
<brobostigon> but it is all about, what you want, andexpect your device and its software tobe able to do,
<gord> hrm, seems like its much harder to encode grayscale movies, booo. 60fps on a colour film vs 15fps on dr strangelove. gonna take forever to encode my older movies :(
<brobostigon> gord: that film rocks. :)
<brobostigon> satire at its best, :)
<brobostigon> is there a way of copying *.jpg directly to a folder on that same mountpoint, ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: cp *.jpg /some/folder
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: cp: cannot stat `*.jpg': No such file or directory
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: no such file or directory.. do you have anything matching that patterin in .? :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, loads of .jpg
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: nog .JPG or .jpeg ?
<gord> sure they aren't .JPG's? camera's like to save them as JPG
<brobostigon> it is showing them as .JPG , and "cp: cannot stat `*.JPG': No such file or directory" is the return.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: try ls *.JPG
<brobostigon> ls *.JPG
<brobostigon> ls: cannot access *.JPG: No such file or directory
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: and just "ls"?
<MartijnVdS> (pastebin, or one sample line)
<MartijnVdS> (but you know that :))
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: its showing .JPG
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: can you paste a line?
<MartijnVdS> just to be sure :)
<MartijnVdS> maybe they're .JPG[space] or something
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i think i have it, some are copying.
<MartijnVdS> what happens when you try to tab-expand? does it show "special" chars at the end?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: none,
<MartijnVdS> so it's working now? what did you do?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am not sure.
<ocean> hi guys. i have a problem with my new hp laptop. after dual booting ubuntu 10.10 with win 7 i find that the grub is being deleted very frequently and i have to use the live cd to resore it through some commands taught by my freind as i am not good with command line. i was wondering if i can make a bootable grub 2 cd so that everytime it happens i don have to worry.if its possible pleaase let me know how can i make one.regards
<ocean> sory i guys. if any one has asnwered to my query pls type it once again as i was forced to quit
<Azelphur> ocean: I've seen another guy in here with HP and grub problems too, so your not alone
<Azelphur> I know you can create a grub boot CD but I don't know how
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i have identified the issue, windows, pictures from my mum.
<ocean> Azelphur, thanks a lot. i have filed that one on the ubuntu launchpad. hopin they will fix it.if i make a grub cd do u think it will help me to boot to ubuntu that way? is it a logical thinkin
<Yorvyk> ocean, have a look at http://www.supergrubdisk.org/
<brobostigon> and why uppercase file extentions, :(
<ledzeplin1989> hello all, I was wondering if any of you know much about deluge thin client?
<Azelphur> ledzeplin1989: nope but it sounds interesting o.O
<Azelphur> I use the deluge web interface
<ledzeplin1989> well it's similar... just instead of using the web ui you use the deluge client as just a client to connect to the deamon, but it reffers to the web ui too
<Azelphur> ohhh, you mean using deluge-gtk to connect to a remote deluge backend?
<Azelphur> Yes, I've done that :)
<ledzeplin1989> I had a few problems with deluged the other week... went to deluge irc channel and got no help from them, so I gave up and removed it all...
<Azelphur> :(
<Azelphur> what was up with it?
<ledzeplin1989> I reinstalled it all disevening but cant get deluged to start up (same problem as before) i run 'deluged -d' and it brings back "permission denied and my mate said to run it with a special deluge user but he cant remember how and i haven't got a clue
<Azelphur> weird :S
<Azelphur> I usually start the daemon with the webui if ever
<ledzeplin1989> web ui never see's it... it used to and then one day i rebooted for some reason or another and wouldn't start up again... i used it on my old server too before and same result
<Azelphur> :(
<ledzeplin1989> I beed on and off linux for years but ive been all out with it for about a year now but still slowly learning with it
<Azelphur> hehe :)
<ledzeplin1989> i think my mates got ssh in later and have a look for me but thanks :)
<ledzeplin1989> by any chance do you know when there gonna bring out the beta for 11.04?
<brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<ledzeplin1989> thanks brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: youre welcome, :)
<brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: for the next release, repace natty with the next release code, :)
<ledzeplin1989> brobostigon: the only thing that bothers me is unity being introduced but i heard you can put gnome on it still so thats something :)
<brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: it i meant to change between both, so ie, ona fresh install go to unity, however if the hw doesnt suport go to normal gnome, and so on.
<ledzeplin1989> ahh right
<brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: or permenently use gnome-shell or gnome2.
<ledzeplin1989> hmmmm :) thanks
<ledzeplin1989> have you tryed the alpha yet for natty
<brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: ithink that is the case, i maybe wrong though, but that is how iunderstand it,
<brobostigon> ledzeplin1989: i havent, no.
<ledzeplin1989> I'm just installing in virtualbox now to see how it looks so far... at the very least i'll have my server running under it.
<gord> there are two sessions in natty, you can either log into unity or "classic desktop" which has a gnome panel and is similar to 10.10
<brobostigon> gord: thank you for clairifying,:)
<ledzeplin1989> ah, thats good :) thanks gord
<AlanBell> can someone have a look at this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/test.html in chrome and/or other browsers to see if the text renders OK or overprints
<Yorvyk> OK in Chromium latest nightly
<AlanBell> thanks, I think it is a bug in the chromium in 10.04 which is 8.0.552.224 (68599)
<hazrpg> works fine on FF 10.10 liveCD
<hazrpg> FireFox, ubuntu 10.10 LiveCD*
<Azelphur> AlanBell: fine on chrome
<AlanBell> thanks
<brobostigon> AlanBell: fine here also in chromium 10.0.629 r.70535
<AlanBell> anyone not see it fine?
<AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/chromium.png
<AlanBell> looks like that for me, and that was the issue with planet.ubuntu.com for czajkowski and others
<brobostigon> AlanBell: same as here.
<brobostigon> AlanBell: noissues, but i am not inside ubuntu, i am on debian sid.
<czajkowski> should be fixed now thought...
<AlanBell> czajkowski: only on planet
<AlanBell> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/releases/10.10/release/
<AlanBell> and I wanted to find out what the actual problem was, I was worried that the font was broken
<AlanBell> font-size: 12px;height: 500px; line-height: 16px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility;
<AlanBell> it is a combination of all of those
<czajkowski> AlanBell: talk to A again when she's online tomorrow
<AlanBell> will do
<brobostigon> AlanBell: is there something specific in saif html, that would cause it to possibly fail, or fail in specific browser or versions, ?
<brobostigon> said*
<popey> yes, bugs.
<AlanBell> yes, all those bits of css together make it fail in chromium
<brobostigon> elaborate popey
<AlanBell> chromium that is in 10.04
<AlanBell> 10.10 rather
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i see, there is not fail here, ido haveseveral previous chromium versions, i think,
<AlanBell> it only fails on the first load of the page, refresh and it is fine
<brobostigon> AlanBell: so i in debian, would be a ble to check, nor be afected ?
<brobostigon> wouldnt*
<AlanBell> I would be interested in your testing results for older chromiums
<AlanBell> 8.0.552.224 (68599) is the chromium build I have
<brobostigon> AlanBell: iwill try previous version i hve,and report back tmrw, i will make a note to myself for tmrw, is tht ok ?
<dutchie> chromia?
<AlanBell> sure brobostigon, thanks
<brobostigon> AlanBell: that is amuch older version that i have here,
<brobostigon> than*
<AlanBell> !info chromium-browser
<lubotu3> chromium-browser (source: chromium-browser): Chromium browser. In component universe, is optional. Version 8.0.552.224~r68599-0ubuntu0.10.10.1 (maverick), package size 14340 kB, installed size 49380 kB
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> how do i get the version here. ofof dpkg ?
<hamitron> dpkg --version
<hamitron> ?
<brobostigon> hamitron: of chromium-browser
<AlanBell> dpkg-query -W chromium-browser
<hamitron> nice AB
<hamitron> :)
<brobostigon> chromium-browser        10.0.629.0~svn20110105r70535-0ubuntu1~ucd1~lucid
<brobostigon> in debian sid.,
<AlanBell> 0ubuntu1???
<brobostigon> AlanBell: i am using an ubuntu ppa in debian.
<AlanBell> ah
 * brobostigon puts ch4 on. x-files.
<brobostigon> wth, billy connelly, interesting,
<gord> brobostigon, *RUN*
<gord> thats the terrible awful new xfiles movie
<gord> run before it destroys all that is good in your soul
<brobostigon> gord: ihvent seen it yet,
<brobostigon> the first i liked.
<brobostigon> it is definatly difererent to the firstone,
<brobostigon> gord: i fear you are right.
<hamitron> grrrr
<hamitron> 1 week and I not enjoyed a single coffee
<hamitron> I simply can't make the stuff to a drinkable standard now, or my tastes are still broken from illness
<brobostigon> i fear i shouldnt have watched this, it is ok, but not of the quality i expect.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-07
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> how do I check the status of the rf switches?
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: elaborate, rf switches. please.
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, apparently on a laptop the combination of fn + keys operates on rf switches witch would turn on or off the wifi or 3g
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: hw switches, yes.
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, and you have soft ones and hw ones
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: yes,
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, how do I check their status?
<pr0ph3t> brobostigon, I am trying to solve some problems with my 3g modem
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: iwould say in software, the output of dmesg, and lsusb and lspci and lshw to str.
<brobostigon> pr0ph3t: mainly dmesg, the kernel buffer, as that will pick up on hw status changes.
<brobostigon> nos da all, sleep well.
<the1knight> pr0ph3t - i solved the problem with audacity
<the1knight> every time i bring up "server channel list"  XChat freezes. Anyone else gets that?
<the1knight> hmm, i guess not
<the1knight> conversation in here is rivetting, cya
<andylockran> howdy
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> when I do rfkills list all I get just the bluetooth and the wifi, but I should get the 3G modem as well, anyone know how I can activate rfswitches for that as well?
<nigelb> popey: if you're still loking for a topic, may be about buying hardware that works with ubuntu
<knightwise> morning everyone
<knightwise> morrrnign webpigeon_laptop
<czajkowski> Aloha
<screen-x> morning czajkowski
<screen-x> morning all :)
<dwatkins> good morning
<ocean> hi guys my HP laptop 64 bit, a dual boot is over heating with s thanksubuntu. can any one guide me how to fix thi
<ocean> hi guys my HP laptop overheats with ubuntu 10.10( a dual boot with win7) and freezes occasionally, can any one help me pls
<kazade> morning
<kazade> looks like my brief adventure into GPU driver programming has come to an end. Came in to find the mini-pc with the SIS chipset I was intending to write one for had overheated and died :/
<kazade> is there anyway to tell whether it's the CPU or motherboard that has died?
<BigRedS> kazade: generally, replace one and see if it fixes it, unfortunately
<BigRedS> except for some fairly specific failure modes, in which case you need *some* posting
<kazade> yeah that's what I thought
<kazade> fortunately, it's a P4 chip
<kazade> and I've found one on ebay for a fiver
<cps> Morning ubuntupeeps :)
<cps> haven't been here since last year, nice to be back
<BigRedS> cps: last year wasn't *that* long ago
<BigRedS> kazade: ah, old hardware for the win! :)
<cps> BigRedS: yes, the pun was intended
<cps> :p
<BigRedS> ahh
<BigRedS> I'm slow at this time of day :)
<cps> nae worries
<cps> it happens
<screen-x> http://abuse.doiop.com/  hmm I wonder why the submit button doesn't work: '<div class="ArticleBody" <form="" id="abuseform" method="post" action="/">'
<kazade> BigRedS, yeah, it used to act as a firewall at my company, but we moved to routers running Linux and so I acquired it about a year ago and let it sit in a cupboard
<kazade> BigRedS, then yesterday I dusted it off, installed Ubuntu on it and found that the SIS graphics chipset has no drivers (basically)
<cps> oh dear
<cps> sterlingxs shelves have run completely dry
<cps> :(
<kazade> BigRedS, so, I decided to dig in and attempt to write a KMS driver for it, I checked out the kernel and code from git, started reading up on GPU drivers and browsing the source code of the existing drivers and left it compiling the kernel last night...
<screen-x> cps:  yeah, I tried to phone them yesterday, but they didn't answer :(
<kazade> came in this morning to find it still on, but not responding to SSH and without any picture when connecting a monitor and now turning on just spins up the fan, but does nothing else
<BigRedS> kazade: ah. That *might* not be hardware failure. I've seen machines do that and people better than me coax them into life
<BigRedS> no idea how, though. I wouldn't even know where to start really
<kazade> I think that, dust + kernel compiling = dead CPI
<kazade> *CPU
<BigRedS> yeah, it's a pretty believable end-result
<screen-x> kazade: quick, tell \. that gentoo killed your box
<kazade> lol :)
<BigRedS> haha
<kazade> I've ordered a new CPU, fingers crossed
<popey> Gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood morning!
<kazade> morning popey
<kazade> did you have a good Xmas/NYE ?
<screen-x> popey that looks like a lot of search results
<dwatkins> G'day popey et al
<ocean> hi guys i have a ati mobility readon HD 5470 graphic card (switchable with intel HD GMA). when i installed fglrx the GUI disappeared and took me to the command prompt. i had to make a clean install to get everything right.i havent re installed fglrx driver as of yet but i find my machine overheats quiet a lot. can any one guide me in the right direction pls.thanks
<kazade> ocean, how did you install fglrx?
<kazade> through the "Hardware Drivers" screen?
<ocean> kazade, when i installed ubntu 10.10 first time a pop up window came up asking if i want to install the new driver? i said yes and it installed
<kazade> hmm
<kazade> that *shouldn't* break it :)
<kazade> ocean, thinking... one sec...
<ocean> kazade, evenwithout fglrx my compiz is working. does it mean that intel HD GMA is the active g card on my ubuntu machine?
<ocean> now
<kazade> ocean, no, not necessarily, the open-source (e.g. built-in) ATI drivers also support Compiz
<kazade> can you do me a favour, open a terminal (CTRL+ALT+t) and type glxinfo
<kazade> and press enter
<directhex> kazade, on some chips
<kazade> that should tell you if it's using the ATI or Intel drivers, if it says it can't find the command, you need to install a package called "mesa-utils" ( sudo apt-get install mesa-utils )
<ocean> kazade, just a sec
<kazade> directhex, yeah
<kazade> ocean, actually, I think the HD 5470 is an "Evergreen" chipset, which doesn't support Compiz with the built-in driver
<popey> kazade: yes, lovely christmas, and even better new year
<ocean> kazade, so hos is the compiz workin now
<kazade> ocean, I think your suspicion about it using the Intel chip may be correct
<kazade> but the output of glxinfo will confirm it
<ocean> kazade, http://pastebin.ca/2040206
<kazade> ocean: OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ironlake Mobile GEM 20100330 DEVELOPMENT
<kazade> try rebooting, entering the bios, and looking for some kind of switch from integrated -> discrete graphics
<ocean> kazade, is that the driver that is supporting m ATI card now?
<kazade> ocean, no, that's the Intel driver. So it's using the Intel chip (which would explain why it wouldn't boot when you enabled fglrx)
<kazade> unfortunately switchable graphics aren't supported (well) in Linux yet
<kazade> so you're best bet is to set the bios to enable the ATI chip, then boot Ubuntu..
<kazade> if the output of glxinfo changes (e.g. it says AMD or ATI somewhere) then try enabling fglrx
<kazade> (disclaimer: this is all guesswork, I've never used switchable graphics before :) )
<ocean> kazade, so the steps are to install fglrx and switch to discrete graphics from integrated? on windows switching is done by itself.
<hoover> mornin lads
<kazade> ocean, I'd switch the bios first to be on the safe side
<kazade> then if it boots and glxinfo says the ATI driver is in use, you can assume it'll be safe(r) to enable fglrx
<ocean> kazade, so if i switch and come to ubuntu would it show GUI without the driver installed already?
<kazade> ocean, yes, it probably won't have compiz though
<kazade> it'll use the built-in (limited and slower) driver
<ocean> kazade, do i have to uninstall compiz. if i change the bios set up what happens to the ability of windows to switch G cards automatically
<kazade> no, compiz just won't run you don't need to uninstall it. I'd assume Windows can carry on working as usual, but you may find if you switch to Intel in Windows, and then reboot to Ubuntu, you might need to set it to discrete again in the bios (not totally sure about that, just a guess)
<ocean_> sory i was disconnected
<kazade> ocean_, no, compiz just won't run you don't need to uninstall it. I'd assume Windows can carry on working as usual, but you may find if you switch to Intel in Windows, and then reboot to Ubuntu, you might need to set it to discrete again in the bios (not totally sure about that, just a guess)
<kazade> hopefully that won't be the case, and you are basically changing the "default" on boot (e.g. Windows will switch back to Intel when it starts if that's what you set it to do)
<kazade> ocean_, relevant bug report is here: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg-server/+bug/312756
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 312756 in xorg-server (Ubuntu) "MASTER: support graphics card hot switch" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<ocean_> kazade, windows do it of its own when its connected to power and back when its on the battery. so i hope that wouldnt be affected
<kazade> hmm, yes let's hope so. I think you may just have to try it to find out I'm afraid :(
<ocean> kazade, i just had a look at BIOS. i couldnt see anything to change for the graphics card. there is one option for virtualisation.is that the same thing
<kazade> ocean, no...
<kazade> what's your laptop model?
<bigcalm> Morning peeoples
<screen-x> morning bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> TFIF?
<ocean> hp dv6 3150sa
<screen-x> I'm glad its friday, yes :)
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> 4 day week seemed to take forever
<screen-x> yeah!
<ocean> kazade, hp dv6 3150sa
<hoover> hello bigcalm
<bigcalm> Hi hoovie :)
<kazade> ocean, sorry, I'm running out of ideas
<ocean> kazade, its alright dear freind. i am just learning. could u answer me some more queries of mine. just to have a good grip on what i am doin
<kazade> ocean, sure :)
<ocean> kazade, from the forums i could gather that fglrx could have interacted with the graphic driver already in place. why wouldnt i delete the one in place now and install fglrx and restart?
<ocean> would it work?
<kazade> I'm not totally sure if this is correct, but basically my theory is that Ubuntu can only *use* the intel chip, but it can *see* both of them. Because it can see the ATI chip it offers use the fglrx driver, but when you reboot fglrx tries to power the Intel chip...
<bigcalm> I find having more than one make of gfx card in a linux box to be a disaster
<kazade> ocean, basically, I think installing fglrx without being able to switch over to the ATI chip is just going to break your install
<ocean> kazade, if thats the case does it ever work on ubuntu 10.10
<kazade> if you can force the chip to switch from Intel -> ATI, then Ubuntu will use the built-in ati driver automatically, and then you can install fglrx
<screen-x> is there no program for switching GPUs?
<kazade> screen-x, there is the vga_switcheroo stuff..
<kazade> but that involves compiling kernel stuff
<ocean> kazade, okay. so it means that ubuntu cant do that switch automatically as windows is doin! :-(
<kazade> ocean, not yet, it's WIP (take a read of http://airlied.livejournal.com )
<kazade> ocean, I'm afraid that for the time being (at least until 11.04, but more likely 11.10) you're stuck with Intel
<awilkins> Just got a coldcall from Delhi claiming to be tech support for Windows.... I almost wish I'd strung them along for a while but telling them I ran Linux got rid of them pretty fast...
<awilkins> Probably some kind of "virus scanner" scam.
<popey> yeah
<popey> almost certainly
<kazade> ocean, one thing you might try actually: boot into Windows with the AC connected, then reboot into Ubuntu... it's possible it'll hold the switch over on ATI
<kazade> you can check that by using that glxinfo command
<kazade> if that works, it's still a hassle, because if you go that route and then install fglrx, you'll need to boot into Windows first each time you want to run Ubuntu (I'm not convinced it'll work, but it might)
<hoover> awilkins: or you could have used the flowchart from hell for telemarketers
<ocean> kazade, anyway at the moment i am more worried about overheating. i can wait untill 11.04 lol
<screen-x> hoover: linkage
<kazade> ocean, you should be fine. Ubuntu is using the Intel chip with the official Intel driver...
<hoover> http://www.xs4all.nl/~egbg/counterscript.html
<kazade> ocean, unless of course it's still powering the ati chip regardless (which would eat your battery)
<screen-x> hoover, thanks :)
<hoover> you're welcome ;-)
<kazade> ocean, I've found something! http://digitizor.com/2010/10/09/how-to-switch-between-gpu-in-ubuntu-10-10/
<ocean> kazade, another problem with this laptop is the grub is being frequently deleted and i have to use a live cd to restore it.now i have made a bootable grub disk to help ot. is there any fix for it do u know. it seems i shouldnt have bot this bloody hp laptop
<BigRedS> ocean: grub is deleted? What exactly happens?
<BigRedS> Does grub actually disappear, or is it 'just' rendered unbootable?
<BigRedS> And, when it has gone, what exactly happens then, too? How far through the boot does it get? What's the last thing on the screen?
<BigRedS> Sorry for the wall of questions :)
<kazade> ocean, I think your graphics problem can be "fixed" by installing that Ubuntu Control Center (more instructions here: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/06/ubuntu-control-center-brings-simplicity.html )
<ocean> BigRedS, as usual when u restart the system u would find missing OS warning instead of the grub menu
<popey> so reinstall grub?
<ocean> kazade, thanks.could u just tell me in order the things i have to install.
<ocean> pls
<kazade> see that last link? just copy each line into a terminal one at a time
<BigRedS> popey: but there's some other issue if it's 'being frequently deleted' surely?
<kazade> (depending on your achitecture)
<kazade> then, Ubuntu Control Center should appear in the menus somewhere
<kazade> which has a switch for hybrid graphics (u need to restart though for it to take effect)
<ocean> popey, i am reinstalling atleast once in a day now. to save my time i have made a bootable grub disk.i think that bug exist  in ubuntu now
<popey> are you actually reinstalling it correctly though?
<popey> is there a bios option which protects the mbr? if so, switch that off
<screen-x> "boot sector virus protection"
<ocean> popey, i am using this link to do it http://grub.enbug.org/Grub2LiveCdInstallGuide
<ocean> kazade, do i have to install the one in link ?
<ocean> and then fglrx
<popey> ocean: the bios option screen-x mentioned would likely cause your grub install to get undone
<kazade> ocean, which architecture are you using AMD64 or 32?
<ocean> kazade, AMD 64
<kazade> ok, so go here: http://www.webupd8.org/2010/06/ubuntu-control-center-brings-simplicity.html
<kazade> run each line in second box line by line (except the first line) into a terminal
<kazade> then reboot
<kazade> oh wait, don't reboot :)
<kazade> once you've run each command, you should see the Ubuntu Control Centre - probably under the System Tools application menu
<kazade> in there you can switch to the "high performance graphics" option
<kazade> then reboot
<kazade> then run glxinfo to check you are now running the ATI card
<kazade> then you can install fglrx
<ocean> kazade, but i havent installed fglrx untill now
<kazade> install fglrx last :)
<kazade> everything will continue working, honest. The built-in ATI driver will take over
<kazade> (well, everything should continue working :p )
<ocean> kazade, so let me recap.install the one in 64 bit box and then install fglrx and restart, is that the way?
<kazade> no! :)
<kazade> install the 64bit box..
<kazade> then run the program it installed
<kazade> select "high performance graphics" in the vga switcher section
<kazade> reboot
<kazade> run glxinfo (check to make sure it says ATI or AMD)
<kazade> then if it does (and only if) install fglrx through hardware drivers
<kazade> when you reboot one final time you should have accelerated graphics on the ATI chip
<kazade> but you'll always need to run Ubuntu on that chip (e.g. no low-power intel one)
<davmor2> morning all
<ocean> kazade, yes my machine is installing it now.let me c what happens.  just to make me understand, without installing the FGLRX how does it get the driver for ATI?
<kazade> Linux has a built in driver
<kazade> it's limited, that's why Ubuntu offers to install the official one
<kazade> but it's good enough for most (non-3D) stuff - like running your desktop without Compiz
<MartijnVdS> only a little
<MartijnVdS> you shouldn't switch until you find a program that doesn't work with the free driver, really
<kazade> MartijnVdS, this is an evergreen chip - IIRC there is only 2D accel on it by default
<kazade> in 10.10 at least
<kazade> I may be wrong
<MartijnVdS> kazade: still.. :)
<kazade> :)
<ocean> kazade, yes installation has gone through with a message that errors has been encountered.anyway i can see the UCC now.
<kazade> ok... we might have to deal with those errors, can you pastebin them?
<kazade> in the UCC you should find a vga switcher (hopefully!)
<kazade> ocean, there's actually been an update since those instructions, if you install this package you'll get a newer UCC: http://ucc.googlecode.com/files/ucc_051_amd64.deb
<ocean> do i have to delete the older one?
<kazade> nope
<selinuxium> Good morning everyone, how are things in Ubuntopia?
 * kazade notices that the Ubuntu Control Center is actually really nice...
<ocean> kazade, sorry i was logd out. can u send me that link once again pls
<kazade> ocean, http://ucc.googlecode.com/files/ucc_051_amd64.deb
<ocean> kazade, so just install this one on top, is it?
<kazade> yup
<BigRedS> where is this ubuntu control center I've just seen mentioned?
<kazade> BigRedS, install the dependencies (everything except the last package): http://www.webupd8.org/2010/06/ubuntu-control-center-brings-simplicity.html
<BigRedS> ahhhh, it's an add-o
<BigRedS> n
<kazade> BigRedS, then install from here: http://code.google.com/p/ucc/downloads/detail?name=ucc_051_amd64.deb&can=2&q=
<BigRedS> That'll be why I can't find it :)
<kazade> http://code.google.com/p/ucc/
<kazade> with a bit of polish it would be good in the default install (Joystick calibration and VGA switching are in there)
<BigRedS> oooh, this might be more successful than my attempts at monitor config yesterday :)
<kazade> BigRedS, it uses the build in control panel  - so unlikely ;)
<BigRedS> bah :(
<kazade> ocean, were you able to use the VGA switcher?
<ocean> kazade, where is that switcher in UCC.sorry i cant loacte that
<kazade> under the hardware category -> audio and video
<kazade> there is a "VGA Switching" item
<ocean> kazade, ok, so switch it to high perfomance and restart is it?
<kazade> yep
<kazade> when you reboot, run glxinfo
<kazade> see if it says "ATI"
<kazade> and let me know :)
<ocean> kazade, ok i will be back soon
<kazade> lol, I've just noticed we've been working on this problem for over an hour :p
<kazade> I should probably do some work at some point today
<screen-x> kazade: that's dedication to community support :)
 * DJones wonders whether kazade's boss is watching the channel
 * kazade wonders if his boss is watching the channel
<kazade> screen-x, do I get my Ubuntu Member badge yet? :p
<screen-x> kazade: write a wiki page and apply..
<screen-x> I haven't got mine though, because I don't really do anything useful :p
<kazade> I would, but I don't have much "evidence" - waffling about Ubuntu isn't really a "sustained contribution"
<kazade> :p
<screen-x> talking of members, did you get onto the irc council AlanBell?
<ocean> kazade, tx .http://pastebin.ca/2040237 i think that still says intel, but the option in ucc is high perfomance
<kazade> ocean... damn
<kazade> I wonder why that didn't work..
<ocean> when i switch to low Perfomance my compiz is getting disabled.
<ocean> kazade, what would happen if i install fglrx? is it going to break it again
<kazade> ocean, can you post the output of: cat /sys/kernel/debug/vgaswitcheroo/switch ?
<kazade> ocean, yes, don't do it
<kazade> fglrx is the absolute last step once we are totally convinced it's going to work
<ocean> kazade, 0: :Pwr:0000:01:00.0
<ocean> 1:+:Pwr:0000:00:02.0
<kazade> can you try something for me?
<kazade> run this:
<kazade> actually..
<ocean> kazade, whats the command sorry
<kazade> I wanna make sure it's safe
<ocean> ok
<kazade> ocean, can you pastebin the contents of /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
<kazade> as far as I can tell, that should've worked
<kazade> ocean, actually, I have an idea!
<kazade> ocean, go back to the UCC and re-select high performance
<kazade> but this time, don't reboot, just log-out and back in again
<kazade> and then run glxinfo
<kazade> (this is just an experiment, not a fix)
<ocean_> kazade, http://pastebin.ca/2040243
<ocean_> my compiz is not working though
<kazade> ocean_, I think it switched!
<kazade> still not a fix though
<kazade> because rebooting will revert to Intel, and so installing fglrx will cause the same problem
<kazade> you are now using the built-in ATI driver on the ATI chip
<ocean_> kazade, so is it using ATI now, but my compiz is ot working now after the re selection.
<kazade> the built-in driver doesn't support Compiz
<kazade> (fglrx does)
<kazade> now we need to make your selection persist when you reboot the computer
<ocean_> kazade, do u want me to reboot it and send you the glxinfo
<kazade> no it's fine, I think I know what we need to do, I'm just asking questions in the xorg-devel channel
<kazade> I don't know *how* to do it, but I know what we want :)
<ocean_> kazade, ok thanks
<screen-x> ocean_: I hope you're stocking up on $drink to send to kazade :)
<bigcalm> beeroverip.org
<ocean_> screen-x, :-)
<MartijnVdS> beeroverip.org.		3600	IN	AAAA	2001:41d0:2:8785::1
<MartijnVdS> there's even beer over ipv6 :)
<screen-x> hehe
<kazade> ocean_, I need two more pastes from you
<kazade> oh wait, no hang on..
 * kazade thinks
<kazade> Can you paste me the output of lspci ?
<ocean_> ok
<balor> Is get_iplayer currently broken? Or is it just me?
<popey> i used it this week
<balor> just me then
<popey> will test now.. one mo
<popey> any particular programme?
<ocean_> kazade, http://pastebin.com/0S2h2L6Z
<balor> No.  I just get "ERROR: RTMP_ReadPacket, failed to read RTMP packet header"
<MartijnVdS> balor: update works fine.. let's try a download
<kazade> ocean_, I've asked in #xorg but I've got no reply... I'll explain the problem to you though..
<ocean_> kazade, my computer is colling down now but no compiz, and awant is not working now as well.lol
<kazade> basically, whenever your laptop boots, it defaults to Intel...
<balor> MartijnVdS: Yes, I've updated already.
<kazade> ocean_, if you install fglrx, it won't boot (because it defaults to Intel)
<kazade> fglrx takes over because installing it creates a file called /etc/X11/xorg.conf
<kazade> and it basically says "use the ATI driver" and it does so regardless of whether the ATI card is enabled
<MartijnVdS> balor: streaming download works fine here as well
<kazade> ocean_, what we want, is it to only use the ATI driver if the ATI card is enabled
<balor> MartijnVdS: thanks.
<kazade> that way, you can boot up (with Intel) and use UCC to switch then logout/login and you'll be running FGLRX + ATI + Compiz
<ocean_> kazade, okay ,
<kazade> there are two possible solutions. 1. Specify the xorg.conf only to apply to the ATI card or 2. Always default to the ATI card rather than the Intel one
<kazade> until the guys in #xorg get back to me, I can't help any more :(
<ocean_> kazade, okay
<ocean_> kazade, i can wait
<selinuxium> Hi popey, who's tricks?
<popey> Not me!
<MartijnVdS> popey: but it's Friday, almost night!
<popey> \o/
<selinuxium> popey, Doh... how's tricks...
<popey> been looking for accessories for my Kodak Zi8
<bigcalm> A weekends, popey is also know as Trixy Bell
<selinuxium> finger dyslexia strikes again...
<popey> also 2TB disks for my server
<popey> tickety boo selinuxium, hows you?
<MartijnVdS> popey: basically anything that fits on a standard tripod mount? (did I see that pic correctly? :))
<selinuxium> popey, not too bad at all :)
<popey> MartijnVdS: yeah
<popey> MartijnVdS: also a micr
<popey> *mic
<popey> selinuxium: happy new year!
<selinuxium> bigcalm, A friend of mine runs a club and they have burlesque from time to time... Trixy Bell sounds like one of them... :) Dusty Limits was may fav name..
<MartijnVdS> popey: so first you want a "rail" that mounts to the tripod
<bigcalm> :)
<selinuxium> popey, Happy New Year to you too sir. :)
<MartijnVdS> +mount
<popey> ahh, rail
<popey> didnt know thats what they're called
<popey> and what are the lights called?
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<popey> do they have a special name?
<MartijnVdS> flash? light? lamp?
<popey> its not flash though is it?
<screen-x> video light
<screen-x> I'd go for..
<MartijnVdS> wait.. rail seems to be slightly different
<popey> you saw the nixie pixel pic?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<popey> there was another where you could see from the front with the light on
<popey> tbh it looked clumsy, the way she was holding it
<MartijnVdS> but rail is like a "wide" tripod head that you can move the camera on
<popey> right
<kazade> does anyone here have FGRLX enabled using just the checkbox in Hardware Drivers?
<kazade> if so, could you pastebin the contents of your (default) /etc/X11/xorg.conf ?
<scottuss> Anyone know of a good gui for NFS, like the one in yast on Suse?
<popey> scottuss: what do you want to do with the GUI?
<popey> bah
<popey> scottuss: what do you want to do with the GUI?
 * popey finds himself looking at home made steadicams for his zi8
<bigcalm> popey: have your graze deliveries stabalised yet?
<scottuss> be able to set nfs shares to automount really
<scottuss> something like directory utility on the mac
<popey> bigcalm: ask me tomorrow :)
<bigcalm> I'm close to cancling my deliveries
<screen-x> popey: chickens?
<popey> screen-x: ?
<screen-x> scottuss: fstab?
<scottuss> yeah I could I suppose
<screen-x> popey: chickens have a stabilising reflex http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/30/chicken-based-camera-stabilization-more-effective-than-the-human/
<MartijnVdS> popey: chickens are the best steadycams
<scottuss> But if the share isn't available, the system wont choke at startup will it?
<bigcalm> Depends if you rely upon that share
<scottuss> bigcalm, rely.. in what way?
<scottuss> something at boot that needs the share to be there?
<BigRedS> well, if it's /home and you've apache logs there, if the share's not there apache wont start, for example
<MartijnVdS> who stores logs in /home?!
<scottuss> ah I see, no no, it isn't mapped to home or anything like that
<scottuss> lol yeah I was thinking that
<scottuss> I suppose you could stick /var on an NFS share, if you're crazy?
<jpds> MartijnVdS: Hosting providers that want to gave customers easy access to logen?
<AlanBell> popey: if you want to borrow a chicken for a steadycam just ask :)
<popey> :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: here have a patronising pat on the head for a change
<MartijnVdS> jpds: those hosting providers should learn the power of symlinks
<scottuss> hmm I might go down the fstab route then. I tried autofs but that was a PITA
<MartijnVdS> jpds: and/or chroots
<ocean_> kazade, any luck?
<kazade> ocean_, no nothing
<kazade> now I'm thinking that we could run a script on boot that sets the ATI card as active before the desktop starts
<kazade> you'd be stuck on ATI though permanently, but at least you'd have decent graphics performance
<ocean_> kazade, i had a read on the launchpad.it seems that this bg has not been fixed along with the grub issue
<kazade> it looks like the vga switching works fine if you only use the built-in open source drivers (you have to log out and back in, but it "works")
<kazade> I haven't seen anyone have any success with fglrx though
<ocean_> kazade, now the machine is more silent and not heating up. i presume it will start heating up again when i restart
<kazade> yeah, it'll revert to Intel and if that was causing the issue then yes it will
<kazade> the other option you have is stick to the current situation, but update the open source drivers
<kazade> (rather than using fglrx)
<czajkowski> davmor2: oi!
<kazade> ocean_, this PPA has stable updates for the graphics stuff: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-x-swat/+archive/x-updates
<kazade> it should be "safe" and might fix your overheating and might enable compiz on ATI (not sure)
<selinuxium> czajkowski, oi! :)
<kazade> ocean_, there is an even more "bleeding edge" ppa for those drivers, but they will likely break at some point (if not immediately), if you are brave the ppa is here: https://launchpad.net/~xorg-edgers
<jpds> czajkowski: 'oi' is hi in Portugese I believe.
<kazade> ocean_, but I wouldn't advise that latter one
<selinuxium> czajkowski, Or as they say in deepest, darkest Essex... Oi Oi!!!
<selinuxium> Hmmm... Hungry o'clock...
<selinuxium> Nando's it is!
<ocean_> kazade, I will go for the stable one now. could U give me the command line to add that ppa and install.
<ocean_> pls
<kazade> ocean_: sudo apt-add-repository ppa:ubuntu-x-swat/x-updates && sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade
<kazade> paste that whole line
<kazade> that'll 1.) add the PPA 2.) Update your package lists 3.) upgrade all the components, possibly installing new packages if needed
<davmor2> czajkowski: what you said you didn't want prodding every day :P
<ocean_> kazade, iam gon to go.thanks a lot for ur help. i am more aware of this issue now.
<ocean_> thats what i really wanted
<kazade> no worries - good luck with it
<kazade> hopefully things will be better in Natty
<kazade> AAAAAAAANNNNNNDDDDD back to work
<screen-x> heh
<Azelphur> Hmm, I'm trying to connect to mozilla-IRC through my ZNC and I'm getting Error from Server [Closing Link: [204.145.82.242] Z:Lined (Open Proxy found on your host. Please visit www.blitzed.org/proxy?ip=204.145.82.242 for more information.)]
<Azelphur> to my knowledge there is no open proxy on my server :S
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: ZNC? what's that?
<screen-x> Azelphur: is it an open irc proxy?
<Azelphur> no, ZNC is not an open proxy and I use it on many networks including this one
<Azelphur> It requires a username and password to connect, otherwise it disconnects you.
<MartijnVdS> maybe they're more strict?
<MartijnVdS> what happens if you put it on a different port?
<Azelphur> ZNC is on a strange nonstandard port
<Azelphur> ZNC Is an advanced IRC bouncer which allows for Multiple clients (Connect as many times as you like under one nick) Playback last few lines in channels when you connect, Playback missed pm's, Auto nickserv identify, Auto join all channels, Push notifications to Colloquy, and more ( http://en.znc.in/wiki/Modules )
<Azelphur> :p
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: have it listen on localhost only, then ssh -L to get the port forwarded to your localhost, then connect to _that_ :)
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: no open proxy :)
<Azelphur> haha I can't do that, there are many other users using my ZNC besides me
<Azelphur> but, ZNC isn't an open proxy, it requires a username and password
<Azelphur> there's nothing open about it
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: apparently, mozilla thinks otherwise
<Azelphur> I guess I need to find some ircops on mozilla
<neptune> when a program loads an "image" what exactly is this image? googled it but cant find the answer
<kazade> neptune, an image as in a picture?
<neptune> no
<screen-x> neptune: image can mean lots of things.. could be a table of values representing pixels (bitmap), could be mathematical description of various shapes (svg), could a copy of a disk, or CD
<neptune> executables load images with code when they execute
<neptune> like shared objects
<neptune> like DLLs
<fr0styy> Hello everyone! :)
<neptune> but i can't find a proper definition
<popey> defintion of what?
<neptune> of image
<popey> where are you seeing this?
<popey> what context?
<neptune> a program loads an image
<neptune> but not picture
<popey> yes, i understand your description, I'm asking where you see that phrase
<popey> "loading image"
<neptune> "image instrumentation"
<popey> where are you seeing that?
<neptune> ok let me show you
<neptune> Image instrumentation lets the Pintool inspect and instrument an entire image, IMG, when it is first loaded. A Pintool can walk the sections, SEC, of the image, the routines, RTN, of a section, and the instructions, INS of a routine.
<popey> an image is a representation of something
<popey> normally people see "image" and think 'visual representation' i.e. a picture visible with your eyeballs
<popey> but it doesn't have to be
<fr0styy> Im in a very, very, very bad situation...I have Ubuntu 10.10 netboock  remix and Back Track 4 running as a dual boot, and Im sure you've heard about  the error 15 problem.
<popey> it could be an image (copy) of a disk, an image of the memory of a computer
<fr0styy> We could IM so as not to flood this room with 2 people having problems. :)
<popey> hardly a flood fr0styy
<neptune> popey i gave you the context
<neptune> what does it mean in that context
<fr0styy> i think he means that: Where are you seeing this error? In the terminal? what file is it that you have a problem with. Am I correct?
<popey> no fr0styy
<fr0styy> i came in late, what problem is he he/she having?
<popey> none, dont worry fr0styy
<fr0styy> ok :)
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<fr0styy> hiyas!
<popey> neptune: in this instance it means a representation of the program and memory whilst running
<popey> neptune: it's just the word the developers chose to use to mean "the program and associated memory loaded by pintool"
<fr0styy> So as I was saying people: anyone have the error 15 when dual booting before?
<fr0styy> because...
<fr0styy>  have Ubuntu 10.10 netboock remix and Back Track 4 running as a dual boot, and  Im sure you've heard about the error 15 problem.
<popey> fr0styy: reinstall grub?
<fr0styy> ok, thats what I wanted to ask. I found a guide to re-istall grub, however, Im afraid of loosing my data
<fr0styy> or is it not an issue?
<fr0styy> because i cant really see my files (even with live ubuntu usb)
<neptune> ok thx
<popey> !grub
<lubotu3> grub is the default boot manager for Ubuntu releases before 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - GRUB how-tos: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GrubHowto - See !grub2 for Karmic onwards.
<screen-x> fr0styy: you should be able to boot from usb and mount your existing partitions/LVs without having a working grub.
<popey> see that link
<fr0styy> Ill check it out, thank you
<fr0styy> Ill relay feed-back :)
<Azelphur> I made a video to demonstrate my overclocked HTC Desire Z http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6_Nur_3JJw :)
<screen-x> Azelphur: the Z has too much battery life for you?
<Azelphur> screen-x: haha, I offset the overclocking by setting up a profile to underclock to 200mhz when the screen is off
<Azelphur> all the perks, none of the loss :)
<screen-x> sounds good :)
<screen-x> My wife's htc desire could probably do with underclocking, its plenty fast enough, but has a shocking battery life.
<Azelphur> it lasts a decent amount of time, playstation emulation does drain it reasonably fast though
<Azelphur> I reckon 2-4 hours of playstation :)
<Azelphur> screen-x: pretty easy to do if you get it rooted
<screen-x> Azelphur: video makes me want to adjust my glasses, but I'm not wearing any :(
<Azelphur> haha
<DJones> screen-x: is that a desire or a desire hd with the bad battery life, my wifes desire hd was horrific until i removed the htc sense sync account & then added it again.  She was getting about 4-5 hours life before it died, now by the end of the day, its at about 65%
<popey> two whole minutes before the race actually starts
<popey> looks sweet once running
<popey> also, you suck at driving :)
<Azelphur> popey: haha, it wasn't easy driving I had to hold the phone at a strange angle for the camera
<popey> nice vid
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> I do get a bit better about half way through though
<Azelphur> ty :p
<screen-x> some nice sideways action :)
<Azelphur> also auto focus on the new webcam is a bit crap
<screen-x> driving games are hard without some sort of analogue input
<Azelphur> screen-x: haha, I grew up in the generation of digital controllers for racing so I'm used to it :)
<screen-x> DJones: it's an original desire, it struggles to get to the end of the day
<screen-x> peppermint tea time
<DJones> screen-x: Right, thought it was worth mentioning the solution that worked for my wife anyway, we found that initially, the calendar was constantly using the battery on her HD, then after updates that went to a normal level, but the Android OS was constantly using the battery, sorting the HTC Sense syncing fixed that though
 * popey pokes AlanBell with a mail to the list
<screen-x> DJones: thanks, I'll check there aren't any unnecessary thing syncing.
<DJones> screen-x: It wasn't so much unnecessary syncing, just a problem with the setup, removing & re-adding the htc sense sync worked for her
<screen-x> DJones: ok
<fr0styy> Hello gyus, im trying to locate some data (I have partitioning problem, and I aparently need to update grub) but there seems to be a problem... I mounted the partition that has Ubuntu and can access pretty much all the directories, however, I cannot seem to locate any items in my home folder...is this normal? should I proceed with updating grub from the live usb with no worries?
<fr0styy> The only reason I am asking this is because I have my desertation due soon...and it would be quite the pain to restart most of my work.. :(
<Azelphur> did you use a separate partition for /home?
<fr0styy> no, I had ubuntu as a single partition, but added Backtrack 4 later on. After booting, I get the error15 msg.
<fr0styy> And obviously cannot access ubuntu unless I use the USB
<fr0styy> Did I dmg the data? *cries*
<Azelphur> hmm, seems odd that the entire home would disappear
<Azelphur> maybe it's a permissions thing.
<fr0styy> should I try sudo in terminal? If I do it will I be able to see it in the GUI?
<fr0styy> sorry to be a pain, but im a week old newbe :)
<Azelphur> fr0styy: could try gksudo nautilus
<Azelphur> but be very careful with it
 * Azelphur will probably be berated for recommending that one :p
<fr0styy> careful in what way? :O
<kvarley> fr0styy: Running nautilus (file manager) as root gives you permisson to delete even the important bits of the operating system
<fr0styy> i see ... ok got it. Tread with caution..
<Azelphur> indeed :)
<fr0styy> nope...nothing in home...im getting this notification
<fr0styy> gconfig-CRITICAL **: gconfig_value_free: assertion 'value !=NULL' failed
<fr0styy> I dont like the sound of that...
<fr0styy> i hope i have the wrong partition up or something... :(
<fr0styy> actually now that I think about it...
<fr0styy> shouldnt the partition be in ext4?
<screen-x> fr0styy: are you looking at the root partition from backtrack?
<fr0styy> the media im looking at has type vfat for some reason :O
 * imexil Struggels with an annoying cups update configuration lock up
<imexil> i.e., Setting up cups (1.4.4-6ubuntu2.3) ... just sits there and does not proceed
<fr0styy> i thought I was looking at ubuntu... what was the command for list of partitions please? :(
<brobostigon> fr0styy: sudo fdisk -l
<fr0styy> ty
<brobostigon> ypure welcome fr0styy :)
 * imexil thinks that the cups configuration likes to trigger the display of some input window that never appears and therefore the configuration script just sits there and waits for input. 
<fr0styy> hmmm let me try mounting another...
<imexil> Anyone seen this before AND found a solution?
<jpds> imexil: sudo pkill -9 dpkg; sudo rm -vf /var/lib/dpkg/info/cups.*; sudo dpkg --configure -a
<fr0styy> the command for mounting was mount (disk name) -mnt     right?
<imexil> jpds:
<jpds> imexil: Hello.
<imexil> jpds: sorry wanted to write a thank you but got distracted by more errormessages ;
<jpds> Fun.
 * imexil is trying to sort them out
<jpds> But that should get cups going again.
<screen-x> fr0styy: its usually "mount device mount-point"
<fr0styy> ty
<fr0styy> point refers to? :)
<imexil> jpds: Do you know if this will now happen each time there is a cups update?
<jpds> imexil: No idea, happened to me randomly once.
<imexil> same here
<imexil> today was the second time
<fr0styy> screen-x: sorry, but what does point refer to? :)
<imexil> jpds: So I couldn't remember how I resolved it last time.
<screen-x> fr0styy: the mount point is the place in the directory tree that you wish to attach the filesystem on the device to.
<screen-x> so if your home dir lives on /dev/sda2, you'd issue mount /dev/sda2 /home
<fr0styy> screen-x: Aha! mount point as in one word! lol
<fr0styy> Screen-x: ty :D
<imexil> jpds: Anyway. It's solved now. The additional error messages were just a result of a couple of lock files still being present. Removing those and then reissueing the command you gave did it. Thanks.
<jpds> imexil: No problem.
<jpds> I should of remembered sudo fuser -k /var/lib/dpkg/lock - for the lock file.
<imexil> it were more that that ;)
<fr0styy> is it ok if i post terminal feedback here?
<fr0styy> its kinda long...
<popey> !paste
<lubotu3> Pastebin is a service to post large texts so you don't flood the channel. The Ubuntu pastebin is at http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org (make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the #ubuntu channel topic)
<brobostigon> just found http://armagetronad.net/about.php , :)
<popey> its in the repo
<brobostigon> yes.
<fr0styy> ok, i hope ive done this correctly: http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/96857
<fr0styy> please let me know if you cant see it :O
<screen-x> fr0styy: can see that.
<fr0styy> screen-x: can or cant? I could just re-post :S
<fr0styy> i havent slept since yesterday worrying about this... :(
<screen-x> fr0styy: I can see it.
<screen-x> fr0styy: which partition do you have mounted?
<screen-x> or partitions..
<fr0styy> screen-x: I have...
<Azelphur> haha, mozilla IRC showing me the hate :(
<fr0styy> sda1 mounted
<Azelphur> I have an alternative port to connect to my ircd on port 8080, bopm scanned me, decided it's an open proxy and zlined me and reported me to a DNS blacklist
<Azelphur> :<
<fr0styy> screen: sda1 is mounted and sda6
<fr0styy> screen-x: I think sda1 is the ubuntu, and sda6 is the usb. or is it? :)
<screen-x> fr0styy: no, sdb is probably the usb
<screen-x> fr0styy: have you looked for your home dir  in the places where sda1 and sda6 are mounted?
<Azelphur> yay got ircop to remove zline \o/
<screen-x> Azelphur: :)
<fr0styy> screen-x: I cannot mount sda6. I get the following return: cant find /dev/sda6/home in or /etc/mtab
<screen-x> fr0styy: pastebin mount
<fr0styy> screen-x: sorry will do :(
<screen-x> fr0styy: don't worry :)
<fr0styy> pastebining...
<fr0styy> screen-x: Hope you can see it (I cant, this comp has problem with browsers...) http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/96871
<fr0styy> but I have trust in pastebin :P
<MartijnVdS> fr0styy: you forgot a space
<MartijnVdS> fr0styy: you need to do "mount /dev/sda1 /home"
<popey> you appear to be typing lots of random things
<MartijnVdS> without the ""
<MartijnVdS> also, that
<popey> and its already mounted
<popey> ls /media/a3404329-0e80-4f7c-b960-ab27c1ce88b9
<popey> or
<popey> ls /media/a   (then press tab>
<popey> s/>/)
<fr0styy> will try it now :)
<fr0styy> popey: Tab doesnt seem to do anything :O
<fr0styy> one sec, lemme try the before mentioned one
<screen-x> fr0styy: I meant the output of "mount" but your pastebin was quite informative :)
<popey> indeed fr0styy just type mount on its own and pastebin the output
<fr0styy> ok i see where the problem was... it was the space..
<fr0styy> one sec guys// :(
<fr0styy> how to log is as root? :D
<fr0styy> its requesting it
<popey> just type mount
<popey> thats all
<fr0styy> i did, but its says:
<fr0styy> mount: onlyroot can do that
<popey> mount, only on its own
<popey> _nothing else_
<popey> just mount
<popey> like this:-
<popey> mount
<fr0styy> popey will kill me now :D
<fr0styy> sorry :D
<popey> read what we type. it helps
<MartijnVdS> popey++
<fr0styy> im sorry popey, its just a lack of sleep...im not usually this slow... :(
<fr0styy> heres the output:
<popey> go to sleep :)
<popey> pastebin...
<Azelphur> incomiiiiiiiiiiing
 * Azelphur takes cover
<fr0styy> http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/96872
<fr0styy> popey: cant get sleep without solving this problem im afraid...
<fr0styy> ***Frostyy ducks
<fr0styy> :P
<popey> your home is mounted
<popey> /dev/sda6 on /media/a3404329-0e80-4f7c-b960-ab27c1ce88b9 type ext3 (rw,nosuid,nodev,uhelper=udisks)
<popey> so, if you do this...
<MartijnVdS> automounted even
<popey> ls -l /media/a*
<popey> you might even see stuff
<fr0styy> popey: Ill keep you posted ;)
<cps> hello
<cps> :)
<fr0styy> im sorry its taking so long, im having to move the pastes via usb :/
<fr0styy> popey: http://pastebin.ubuntu-uk.org/96873 here is the output, i can see home
<popey> that looks like your BT4 root filesystem
<popey> fr0styy: do:-
<fr0styy> oh oh...
<popey> ls /mnt/home
<popey> sda1 will be your ubuntu root filesystem
<popey> sda6 is BT4 root filesystem
<fr0styy> i did, it displays my ubuntu username
<popey> thats your home directory
<screen-x> fr0styy: sounds like you found it :)
<fr0styy> yay!!! :D
<popey> ls /mnt/home/<yourubuntuusernamegoeshere>
<fr0styy> hahaha lets try this out :D
<popey> (I am still unclear why we are doing this)
<screen-x> popey: in search of a lost dissertation
<fr0styy> its because its not showing up in the GUI. Sorry, i thought i already mentioned that :O
<popey> MartijnVdS: http://lists.infradead.org/pipermail/get_iplayer/2011-January/000487.html
<popey> yeah, I am not sure why we're looking for home
<popey> what the actual main issue is
<fr0styy> ooooh
<popey> also there's the further question of why the hell someone would install BT4 dual booting with Ubuntu :D
<screen-x> popey: yeah, there is that...
<MartijnVdS> popey: Strange.. I'm watching a BBC Four documentary now.. that I downloaded when I saw the complaint earlier
<fr0styy> well you see...I've kinda wanted to experiment with BT4 , but ended up reconfiguring the grub
<screen-x> fr0styy: best to do experiments with usb sticks or VMs
<fr0styy> and now, BEFORE doing anything, I would like to make sure my dessertation is safely tucked away in my usb :(
<fr0styy> screen-x: thanks! ill remember that next time lol
<fr0styy> Or just make sure my backup is working :D
<screen-x> fr0styy: though if you use a usb stick, be very careful to install to the right device...
<fr0styy> screen-x: thats kinda what hapened. I overrote grub.. :/
<screen-x> fr0styy: if you run "nautilus /mnt/home/<yourubuntuusernamegoeshere>" you should be able to see your home folder in gui, and then copy what you need to usb stick
<popey> MartijnVdS: maybe he is using rtmpdump, i am using flvstreamer
 * cps is now the proud owner of a thinkpad \\o/
<screen-x> cps \o/
<fr0styy> screen-x: now all I want to do is get my data out, and purge the system... Ill use BT on another machine for experimental purposes... :)
<screen-x> which one?
<cps> t41
<cps> cheapest available on amazon, mind
<screen-x> cool :)
<cps> need to save my monies for a trip later this month
<screen-x> screen res?
<cps> 1024x768
<MartijnVdS> popey: hm, now that you say that.. I"m using flvstreamer as well
<fr0styy> Special shout out goes to popey and screen-x, you people are awsome really :D
<fr0styy> patience is hard to come by these days...
<popey> glad you got your data!
<screen-x> !popey
<lubotu3> popey is the UK alternative to elvis.
<fr0styy> im running the command to get it from the gui
<cps> gonna throw xubuntu on my thinkpad as soon as it arrives
<fr0styy> it seems like i need to set permissions (scrolls up to find the command, someone mentioned it earlier)
<fr0styy> gksudo nautilus there it is :)
 * cps also bought a new wireless card for his desktop, which he is going to throw linux on as well
<fr0styy> gksudo nautilus /mnt/home/ <usrname>      correct? Im afraid of these commands *wipes brow*
<popey> no
<popey> you added a space
<fr0styy> just for posterity :)
<screen-x> popey: sharp eyes, I was going to say yes..
<fr0styy> but your THE man for spoting it :D
<cps> sudo and gksudo can make any command dangerous
<cps> even I worry about wiping the system when I run a command under sudo
<screen-x> the number of times I've run sudo halt/reboot/ifdown on the wrong box...
<fr0styy> hmmmm
<fr0styy> can see it, but the permission is still stopping me from copying
<fr0styy> *Hopes no one kills him*
<popey> gksudo nautilus
<BigRedS> screen-x: see mollyguard. won't prevent misplaced ifdowns, but questions you shutting down the local machine
<popey> then navigate on left to Filesystem -> mnt -> home
<screen-x> BigRedS: ahh, I've heard of that, really should install it, thanks for the prompt :)
<BigRedS> screen-x: When I was running openbox (and so rebooting/halting from xterm all the time), it was _invaluable_ :)
<fr0styy> ALL RIGHTY!!! Leaving NO room for mistakes! Dumping ENTIRE home into usb! :)
<fr0styy> can always edit it as needed later :)
<fr0styy> 43gigs...that should take the better end of 4 hours :/
<popey> that wont fit will it?
<fr0styy> popey:i have a 64 gig back-up usb :)
<popey> cool
<fr0styy> popey: I knew it would come in handy someday :D
<fr0styy> Wow guys, serously? You are stars :)
<fr0styy> This is definatly my go-to place when i need help most, not often i hope...For ALL our sakes! :D
<screen-x> fr0styy: get some sleep while its copying ;-)
<cps> +1
 * brobostigon stabs windows in the back on his dads computer.
 * BigRedS appreciates spreading the rumour that he has no idea how to use Windows
<BigRedS> actually, it's really not far from teh truth now :)
 * cps imagines brobostigon using a CD as a shuriken to throw at Bill Gates...
<fr0styy> screen-x: wish I could....I needed to come to a net-cafe to do this. Thats why im switching between comps.
<fr0styy> screen-x: Actually...I'd rather keep myself busy so that I can sleep at a normal hour...when would I wake up if I slep now lol :D
<cps> it's teh hamitron-meister!
<hamitron> :)
<cps> :P
<hamitron> ;/
<cps> herp
<hamitron> I think I must just get games for collection purposes, not playing :/
<cps> what platforms you into, hamitron?
<hamitron> installed all new games from xmas to test them and now uninstalling
<hamitron> pc
<cps> ah
<cps> the word "collection" made me think you were into vintage computers
<hamitron> well
<shauno> you had to go there
<hamitron> I do have a collection of older stuff I suppose ;D
<cps> :p
<hamitron> suppose the wayi hoard stuff is the reason I am not a fan of DRM... I like to buy something and keep it to play in 15-20 years
<hamitron> I still not broken the seal on my Diablo 2 game :/
<fr0styy> I still have my old Snes. Its cool because it's mostly used as a paperweight now due to the roms on my comp. Still looks cool in the room though :D
<screen-x> I need to unhoard, possibly moving into a flat..
<hamitron> my SNES has turned green :/
<cps> hamitron: lolwut
<hamitron> cheap plastic
<shauno> hamitron: the seal on d2 isn't DRM.  it's a bit of plastic :)
<screen-x> hamitron: not mould?
<fr0styy> Speaking of unhoarding...I need to give away alot of stuff in my room. Im leaving england for good soon :S
<hamitron> my NES looks newer
<cps> fr0styy: where you moving to?
<fr0styy> cps: No idea...thats the problem....
<hamitron> :/
<fr0styy> My home is where my laptop is plugged! ;-)
<cps> :p
<hamitron> so down the pub on evenings? ;/
<fr0styy> Or anywhere where i can get a usable internet connection
<fr0styy> My room in the house im in has horride wireless :/
 * hamitron rubs his ethernet port
<shauno> would I be nosey to ask why you're going if you don't know where you're going?
<cps> bt home hub = a piece of crap
<fr0styy> no, its a pretty simple question IMO
<fr0styy> you see..
<fr0styy> I came here about 5 years ago to study, and im submiting my final project on the 11th (Tue)
<fr0styy> so....
<fr0styy> I kinda dont have a reason to stay no more... :O
<shauno> ahh
<fr0styy> Most of my firends have left already :S
<screen-x> fr0styy: hence it would have been disastrous to lose the dissertation..
<shauno> well, that makes my only useful tip moot point then :)
<fr0styy> screen-x: now you know why i was paniking!!!!1  :(
<fr0styy> and couldnt sleep *rubs eyes*
<fr0styy> what was the tip shauno? :P
<shauno> was gonna say register to vote before you leave, because they make it incredibly difficult to do anything afterwards
<shauno> but given the extra info, that's kinda useless to you :)
<shauno> (I left the UK 8 years ago)
<fr0styy> I see...yea you are right. Im a resident, but not in the "voting" category of the populous lol
<fr0styy> shauno: Where did you run off to? If I may ask? :D
<shauno> the US initially.  seemed like a plan at the time
<cps> USA = unfeasible for me
<fr0styy> Yea...I cant do the US either...but Iguess you never know till you try :)
<shauno> I'm not welcome back there until 2026 (silly story), so not too workable for me either now :)
<kazade> lol, has anyone seen this week's Micro Mart?
<cps> kazade: no?
<kazade> I just opened it up to an image of Ubuntu
<cps> shauno: I dislike the US
<fr0styy> 2026? :OOOO
<cps> particularly since wikileaks broke out the cables
<kazade> ...so I thought I'd trackback and see what they were writing about
<fr0styy> Dont tell me you tryed to assasinate the prez or something? hahaha
<kazade> first thing I notice, there is a picture of Unity, but it's upside down AND back to front
<kazade> so I turn the page to find a 7 step guide to building an Ubuntu USB key...
<shauno> cps, I found it's rarely that clear cut.  love the country, the people aren't that bad either.  no fan of their govt however.
<cps> kazade: lolwut
<kazade> every single one of the 7 pictures doesn't show what they are describing
<kazade> in fact, all 7 pictures show the Ubuntu installation..
<kazade> so I turn the page, and find 7 steps to installing Ubuntu...
<kazade> except all 7 images are of how to create an Ubuntu USB key
<cps> shauno: ##politics
<fr0styy> kazade: Now thats a sure fire way to put people off trying the OS... :/
<shauno> cps: yeah I know.  just pointing out there's a huge difference between the people and the govt, and not judging one by the other
<fr0styy> cps: An since shauno was part of a crew thats bent on world domination, he was discriminated against! How...rude! :D
<fr0styy> shauno: Ok I take it you didnt like that one...*took it back*
<fr0styy> :(
<cps> ergh, I hate not being able to sleep at night
<cps> but I successfully hid it from my mum this time
<fr0styy> brb need to get some fresh air...needed after such linux gymnastics :/
 * cps makes an espresso for brobostigon
<brobostigon> cheers, thank you cps :)
<fr0styy> god...i dont think im going to make it...
<cps> :)
<fr0styy> 3 h 45 mins left for the file trasfer.
<fr0styy> if i had ubuntu working i would have played HoN to make the time pass faster...
<hamitron> HoN?
<fr0styy> Though would have been flamed for sleeping on the keyboard :P
<fr0styy> Heroes Of Newerth
<fr0styy> its a game based on dota (if you know it)
<hamitron> no
<fr0styy> hmmm lets see...
<fr0styy> you know how in Real Time Strategy  games you would take control of the entire army?
<fr0styy> well in this game...
<fr0styy> You take control of a hero, the troops are automated, and the objective is to destroy the enemy team's base! :)
<hamitron> ok
<fr0styy> Heros have abilities that make them unique (STR, INT, AGI ) and you basically get to play a: 5v5 RPG/Arena style game :)
<hamitron> I assume the game works slightly differently compared to something like C&C then
<fr0styy> very different, in the sence that you control one unit (in most casses)
<BigRedS> so does everything else just sort-of follow your lead?
<fr0styy> but there are still heroes that test your micro management :D
 * cps feels tempted to block one of his best friends on facebook
<fr0styy> Hmmm...well you can 'manipulate' the troops in certain ways, but not direct commands
<nperry> AHH! Polish co-worker brought her laptop in, its BSOD in polish :<
<nperry> And can't get far enough to change language :/
<screen-x> nperry: heh just as useful :)
<nperry> And she cant translate it back to english.
<cps> hell yeah, wireless card has been dispatched \o/
<fr0styy> They follow a set patch, but if you so happen to 'pull them' towards ememies, or funnel them by cracking the ground,etc.. (am I making sense? :D)
<nperry> Tempted to place ubuntu on there but I think her memory is fried.
<fr0styy> I have a couple of 1 day passes if anyone is interested?
<fr0styy> I think i have 2
<shauno> to be fair, I have difficulty translating BSOD into english.
<fr0styy> You get to invite people (marketing ploy)
<cps> fr0styy: I'm not really a gamer tbh
<hamitron> nperry: boot livecd and run memtest?
<fr0styy> cps: Thought I'd ask anyways, since you guys helped me so much today :D
<cps> nae problem :p
<czajkowski> davmor2: you are I are gonna come to blows one day mister!
<nperry> hamitron: Downloading ISO now, as can't be bothered to go home to usb key with it on.
<shauno>  /lastlog davmor
<selinuxium> Afternoon all  o/
<davmor2> czajkowski: What for this time?
<selinuxium> AlanBell, you about fella?
<fr0styy> selinuxium: Hi *waves*
<nperry> The laptop was brought in Poland however the BIOS is in english..
<hamitron> nperry: you can probably get a small livecd specially for it
<hamitron> if that helps
<nperry> Its 90% done, 10meg line
<nperry> Thought would vistit irc just to let off steam :/
 * hamitron comforts his 190kbps
<fr0styy> nperry: Iso should be able to fix it though, right?
<BigRedS> nperry: with the bsod, normally the error code is useful enough on its own, and it's pretty recognsiable (being a hex string)
<BigRedS> fr0styy: yeah, that makes sense. Sounds intriguing but I've already a list of games to catch-up with...
<czajkowski> davmor2: FB!
<shauno> I rarely go as far as the numbers.  if it mentions VXD, it's a driver.  if not, it's likely memory.
<czajkowski> selinuxium: he's hiding...
<fr0styy> BigRedS: No problemo, lemme know if you ever change your mind. It is one of those games where you kinda side-bench your other games though...Thought I'd warn you.
<BigRedS> fr0styy: ah, I already do that with the sorts of games for which most people don't put everything else aside :)
<fr0styy>  BigRedS: Hey! you gota finish what you started, right? ;)
<selinuxium> czajkowski, :)
<selinuxium> czajkowski, You going to Openexpo?
<czajkowski> selinuxium: don't think so tbh, head to fosdem on the friday
<fr0styy> Whats openexpo?
<selinuxium> fr0styy, http://www.opensourceexpo.co.uk/
<cps> 'K, I would go if it wasn't aimed at people who work for/own companies...
<cps> well, aimed specifically*
<fr0styy> selinuxium: Wow...Sounds interesting
<fr0styy> Though its in Feb, and I dont know if the UKBA would like me staying here any longer! :-!
<fr0styy> Im offically in the GTFO senario soon lol
<cps> UKBA?
<cps> don't you mean UKPA?
 * DJones assumes UK Borders Agency
<cps> ah
<cps> <_>
<fr0styy> Bingo! :D
<nperry> BigRedS: It only flashes 2 secs before reboot can't read it with all the jibberish polish
<screen-x> nperry: DSLR handy?
<fr0styy> I don't want to make a guest apperance on "UK Border Patrol" :D
<nperry> screen-x: I'm at work, so no.
<cps> fr0styy: what country are you from?
<nperry> Booting into memtest now
<screen-x> nperry: businesses need cameras..
<fr0styy> cps: Im Saudi Arabian
<cps> ah
<BigRedS> bigcalm: ah, the famous reboot-on-bsod
<nperry> Am I right in thinking that will give a different error then the BSOD? but should be googleable if memory is fried
<bigcalm> ?
<screen-x> haha
<BigRedS> bigcalm? how did I manage that
 * bigcalm pokes BigRedS with a tab
<screen-x> b is right next to n
<BigRedS> that's one hell of a typo.
<nperry> screen-x: shitty cheap ones.
<BigRedS> ahh, it's not that bad
<daubers> ghjgjo/
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm sure I don't know what you mean
<screen-x> nperry: only if they want their reports/website/whatever to look rubbish
<daubers> Hmm...
 * czajkowski kicks davmor2 
<screen-x> daubers: what was that?
<fr0styy> cps: Never had trouble with them ever though, even when I over stayed (8 days) I had my pappers ready for them. Better safe than sorry, I always say!  (Says the guy who almost repartitioned ubuntu with no backup)
<daubers> screen-x: SSH catching up apparently
<screen-x> heh
<cps> hah
<daubers> kvm question! How many VM's would you put on a box with a quad core machine (and oodles of RAM)
<daubers> Most of them won't be doing a lot of processor intensive work
<fr0styy> cps: screen-x: You dont know! It was a "Shoot myslef in the foot" moment! lol
 * davmor2 entangles czajkowski hair with silly putty
<cps> fr0styy: :P
 * cps entangles czajkowski's hair with even more silly putty
<screen-x> daubers: keep going till the loadavg reaches num CPUs -1
<daubers> screen-x: Heh. Since these are mostly webservers that'll be a lot..
<czajkowski> cps: oi less jumping on the bandwaggon there!
<czajkowski> davmor2: we're finished! be gone!
 * czajkowski sends davmor2 to the brat corner! 
<cps> czajkowski: sorry but the bandwagon was an essential one to jump on
<jpds> davmor2: /nick gone
<screen-x> daubers: maybe you'll have to do it on traffic/latency then?
 * davmor2 gives czajkowski a big hug and spends the next 6 hours pulling bits of silly putty out of her hair
<daubers> screen-x: Again, mostly low volume stuff. I want to put 5 or 6 VMs on the box, most taxing of which will be an OpenVPN server
<czajkowski> davmor2: nope!
<screen-x> daubers: that should be no prob, especially if none of them have any swap
<davmor2> czajkowski: glass of JD if every we meet?
<Mez> does anyone know if I can find out what time(s) a screensaver was either manually activated, or done through inactivity?
<Mez> I want to prove a point.
<daubers> screen-x: Nope, RAM isn't an issue
<daubers> screen-x: Am tempted to wang an entropy key on it for good measure for the VPN side
<screen-x> :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: nope!
<davmor2> Mez: I think there is a way to know if it was triggered through inactivity not sure about manually and I don't know how either
<Mez> I can work out when it was unlocked...
<Mez> due to "unlocked login keyring"
<screen-x> daubers: #OT have you seen what they've done to the buttons in the OSX app store app? it looks worse than iTunes.
<daubers> screen-x: I only had a quick look at it this morning and didn't notice......
<daubers> screen-x: Will have a look this evening
<daubers> screen-x: Did notice iLife is about half the price of the boxed version on the app store
<Mez> I can also work out the time the current screensaver has been locked.
<screen-x> daubers: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/10/mac-app-store-top-pic-rm-eng.jpg
<daubers> are they back to front?
<daubers> just inline with the toolbar
<screen-x> daubers:  not back to front, but in line and vertically centred
<MattJ> popey: "it doesn't have to be your Canonical presence or indeed your only one." <-- automatic capitalisation reflex? :)
<daubers> does look a bit odd
<screen-x> Good title: http://reverttosaved.com/2011/01/06/mac-app-store-ui-is-so-hideous-that-it-makes-me-want-to-kick-a-swan/
<popey> yes :)
<Laney> I haven't/can't been bothered to reboot to osx in order to upgrade yet
<popey> I did, it's underwhelming
<screen-x> yah
<Customizer> Does anyone, add functionality to programs to have their own elite suit of applications for further development and personal usage?
<czajkowski> http://twitter.com/#!/SiriusCorp/status/23419976660553728  <---- folks may be interested
<BigRedS> I edit my bashrc and vimrc ....
<Customizer> im not even sure what bashrc and vimrc is... (vimrc == vim?)
<BigRedS> Customizer: yeah, the config files for bash and for vim.
<BigRedS> well, user-specific config files. So you can define your own shortcuts and alter behaviour to make it work how you'd like it to
<Customizer> what did you do to vim?
<BigRedS> right now, not huge amounts 'cause I use too many computers. Mostly shortcuts; F5 does a perl syntax check; F6 and F7 #-out and unhash the selection, respectively. I can't remember the rest, since I don't use them very much...
<BigRedS> hang on
<dutchie> czajkowski: i might be interested in the summer
<BigRedS> Hah, I got even those wrong. vimrc's here: https://github.com/BigRedS/dotfiles/blob/master/vimrc
<dutchie> i probably should do something like that
<dutchie> BigRedS: how do you keep up to date? clone into ~/dotfiles and have symlinks?
<BigRedS> yeah
<BigRedS> i've a deb file that sorts all that crap out
<BigRedS> i keep meaning to put the dotfiles in the deb
<BigRedS> but I don't change PCs *that* often, I just have several, and they're all mostly set up now
<BigRedS> but, generally,  edit sources.list, apt-get install avi, then I'm away :)
<Customizer> o.O
 * dutchie adds that to todo list
<czajkowski> dutchie: ok. well gives a shout closer
<czajkowski> dutchie: still no harm in sending cv and stating that tbh
<popey> BigRedS: "Your box is on its way"
<bigcalm> Oh, I've got 2 lots of 2 boxes to give away to use customers
<bigcalm> Any takers?
<popey> yay, "cherry tomato, basil and puglian pesto focaccia", "himalayas & beyond", "total eclipse" and "wasapea"
<popey> http://graze.com/b/ctm1d
<popey> my box :)
<bigcalm> Nice
<bigcalm> I think I got total eclipse as well
<MartijnVdS> hm, google docs does video now
<popey> o_O
<BigRedS> video? that's not a document!
<MartijnVdS> http://docs.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=1047043&hl=en
<BigRedS> popey: my box?
<MartijnVdS> popey,  BigRedS ^
<popey> sorry
<Azelphur> haha, my friend has invented a new form of trolling...Linux trolling http://pastebin.com/Sby27mey
<MartijnVdS> hahaha
<TheOpenSourcerer> What's happenin' all?
<bigcalm> Hehe
<Azelphur> :D
<Customizer> gtg
<fr0styy> I'd Like to thank the great people for their help today, you guys rock! I'll be back! :P
<fr0styy> laterz! *waves*
<shauno> sleep well
<screen-x> laters fr0styy
<fr0styy> Still two more hours to go, but i think ill make it! :D
<screen-x> :)
<fr0styy> thanks for the support, over and out!
<screen-x> shauno: so while its quiet, why can't you go back to the USA?
<brobostigon> evening all.
<gord> i just had to resize a window on ubuntu by grabbing the window edge whilst using a touchpad =\
<screen-x> gord: did you manage?
<shauno> I hope you like a challenge :)
<screen-x> servers are so slow to boot
<MartijnVdS> especially if they have hardware RAID
<screen-x> yeah
<BigRedS> mmm, I'm still amused at having to schedule 40mins downtime to boot into a new kernel
<brobostigon> ouch.
<zleap> ouch
<zleap> why 40 mins
<MartijnVdS> fsck?
<shauno> screen-x: fun complications with my greeencard.  Left me in a fun position where I'm no longer a lawful resident, but not elligible for the standard 90day 'visa waiver' / tourist visa.
<MartijnVdS> shauno: \o/ bureaucracy
<shauno> so I either go thru an incredibly awkward process trying to apply for a visa before I travel (while the embassy here tell me I don't need one, USCIS will turn me away at the border without one).
<screen-x> shauno: yeah, that sort of thing is far to complicated and gets ugly quickly :(
 * brobostigon flings windows cd's at bureaucracy for shauno 
<shauno> Or just let the wife go home to visit family alone.  yay bureacracy indeed :)
<ocean_> hi guys i need some help to connect to wifi with my ubuntu 10.10 64 bit please. the wifi card in my machine seems to be RT 30390 which apparently has got some problems on ubuntu 10.10
<screen-x> right I'm off, have a good weekend everyone, and special mention for those who have to work :(
<popey> o/
<shauno> my favourite gripe with the whole greencard mess, is that I know quite a few people living in the US illegally, and trouble-free.  went thru reams of paper (and a significant amount of currency) doing it properly, then got fouled because I spent more than 3 consecutive months out of the country.
<shauno> the 20 year 'black mark' I earned for that is exactly the same as an illegal would get if caught.  balmy.
<zleap> sounds crazy
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I'm having some problems with a couple of rfswitches that have not been implemented in the driver I am using, more specifically those for the 3g modem, for bluetooth and wifi all is good. Is there anyway I could set them up without recompiling the kernel and applying the patch?
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, hey I don't think the patch has been merged in 2.6.37 yet :(
<ocean_> hi guys i need some help to connect to wifi with my ubuntu 10.10 64 bit please. the wifi card in my machine seems to be RT 30390 which apparently has got some problems on ubuntu 10.10
<awilkins> gord there's a resize option in the rclick menu... I think it's not that good, but sometimes it's better than finding these new narrow window edges
<awilkins> gord, Or was the title bar not available on the window in question?
<Adriannom|droid-> Lo. How do i kill network manager temporarily?
<Adriannom|droid-> Sudo service network-manager stop returns "stop: unknown instance:"
<brobostigon> Adriannom|droid-: sudo /etc/init.d/network-manager stop
<Adriannom|droid-> Tried that brob, it lectures me on using the service command but doesn't say whether it succeeded or failed (or even tried) nm still present
<gord> i really hate the qt file chooser, its like using windows from 10 years ago
<gord> awilkins, nope, i just didn't think of that :)
<brobostigon> i thought you can directly use the init.d name in service command, so i dont know.
<Adriannom|droid-> :(
<brobostigon> Adriannom|droid-: i am on debian sid here though, so there might be a few differences.
<Adriannom|droid-> Yeah
<gord> brobostigon, Adriannom|droid-, its upstart now. just "sudo stop network-manager"
<Adriannom|droid-> Weird how service won't stop it though
<Adriannom|droid-> Gord: returns "stop: unknown instance: "
<brobostigon> gord: interesting,
<gord> sounds like network manager isn't running then
<gord> which makes it hard to stop
<Adriannom|droid-> Aha, the icon was still there and fooled me
<gord> or upstart *thinks* its not running maybe ;)
<Azelphur> the logic is clearly strong with the daily mail, Firefox dethrones IE as europes most popular web browser, so we'll show a picture of some chick with an iPad running safari. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1344263/Firefox-dethrones-Internet-Explorer-Europes-popular-web-browser.html
<Adriannom|droid-> You're right, it's dead
<Adriannom|droid-> Thanks :)
<Azelphur> >.<
<brobostigon> gord: is "stop" meant to be a seperate app, as i cant pull anything about it.
<gord> brobostigon, its part of upstart
<gord> you have start, stop, restart. maybe more
<brobostigon> gord: let me do some research,
<brobostigon> upstart seem to be present in debian sid.
<brobostigon> and i dont have it installed.
<gord> i wouldn't know how easy it is to make debian use upstart
<brobostigon> gord: i dont eaither, hence iamdoing my reserch,
<gord> i would suggest you backup important files before trying though ;)
<brobostigon> agreed, yes, :)
<Adriannom|droid-> Trying to get into failsafe mode on my wrt54gl. The dmz light is flashing rapidly, and i have a machine with a static ip connected to port 1. Problem is, ping 198.192.1.1 returns "destination host unreachable". The ping works fine if the router is booted normally.  Any ideas?  using ubuntu 10.04 and NetworkManager is stopped
<Adriannom|droid-> that should be 192.168.1.1 btw :s
<cbx333> hey all
<cbx333> anyone formatted a USB stick/hdd for PS3 in linux??
<AlanBell> popey: looks like we have a .org stand at the cloud show
<czajkowski> evening
<brobostigon> evening czajkowski
<Pendulum> hiya czajkowski
<daubers> Evening
<suprengr> \o/
<cbx333> hey
<cbx333> video bods
<cbx333> anyone use handbrake
<gord> some people do, whats the actual question?
<cbx333> deinterlacing
<jacobw> cbx333: #handbrake
<cbx333> yeh i know
<cbx333> I'm in there
<cbx333> but I know peeps in here
<cbx333> :)
<gord> "deinterlacing" is not a question :)
<cbx333> heheh
<cbx333> i want to encode a video as deinterlaced
<cbx333> as it is interlaced dvd at the moment
<gord> handbrake automatically detects interlaced content and attempts to deinterlace it
<cbx333> hmm
<cbx333> apparently not the version i have
<cbx333> lemme see
<gord> theres a preview picture button somewhere, press that
<cbx333> yeh
<cbx333> found it
<gord> when that opens there is an options box that has the deinterlace/other thing option, the other thing automatically detects, the deinterlace option always deinterlaces content
<gord> the end result will still look bad, but there is nothing you can do about that, the interlacing process irreversibly destroyed picture quality
<cbx333> yes
<Tok_> irc://irc.surrealchat.net/radiosega
<bigcalm> !spam
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> how can I point out politely that a driver should be merged with mainline? I can't recompile everytime I want to update kernel!
<bigcalm> Does everybody need this driver?
<pr0ph3t> I mean I know Linus is a very busy man, but I can't keep going like this :P
<pr0ph3t> everybody with an asus laptop
<pr0ph3t> bigcalm, it's a bugfixed version of an already implemented driver
<bigcalm> I see
<pr0ph3t> there was 3g support missing
<pr0ph3t> it has been there for over three months now and kernel 2.6.37 doesn't feature it yet
<jacobw> I doubt that Linus has much to do with the integration of drivers in to the mainline kernel
<AlanBell> o/ all
<bigcalm> Taaraa AlanBell
<AlanBell> we need to schedule the next meeting to go over some bits and bobs like the cloud expo
<bigcalm> Oh, it was a hello
<danfish> evening
<AlanBell> bigcalm: I am only called Tara at weekends
<bigcalm> :D
<danfish> Tara, which is the cloud expo thing agaon?
<danfish> *again
 * AlanBell is in too many channels to do /nick tara :)
<danfish> heh
<AlanBell> http://www.cloudexpoeurope.com/
<AlanBell> and I think we should schedule http://www.watercressline.co.uk/Our-Services/RAT for some point in the year too
<danfish> ah - I'm probably being thick, but is that running parallel to http://www.opensourceexpo.co.uk/ (I'm going on the Friday)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: /hilight -word tara ;)
<AlanBell> same thing
<danfish> cool
<danfish> oh yeah, it's in the top right hand corner of the opensourceexpo homepage!
 * bigcalm dissapears to watch Scot Pilgrim vs the World and drink lots of fine
 * danfish <---- muppet :)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: ^^ oldnews
<czajkowski> AlanBell: selinuxium was looking for you earlier on
<danfish> MartijnVdS: :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I think that was about the expo thingumie
<czajkowski> ah ok
<czajkowski> hmm see they still haven't removed our logo >:(
<AlanBell> Daviey: pingaling
<marsilainen> hi all
<marsilainen> what is the current opinion on ati vs nvidia on linux/ubuntu?
<marsilainen> just about to buy a new machine and I need to decide which way to jump...
<marsilainen> I'm interested in things working - like suspend etc, more than which has ultimate performance
<jacobw> I'd just go with the vendor and cards that have the best drivers now
<marsilainen> which is what?
<davidjmemmett> which is?
<davidjmemmett> I'm routing for ATI
<davidjmemmett> except 3d acc. is poor
<jacobw> davidjmemmett: I would as well
<jacobw> Although, I don't intend to provide a specific answer, just to say that I would go by what driver is best now rather than the ATI vs nVidia debate
 * MartijnVdS pets his intel chips
<MartijnVdS> my preciousss
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: Have they got names?
<marsilainen> jacobw: I understand that there is a lot of religion in the argument, just wondering what people plump for I guess
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: i5, i3 :)
<marsilainen> intel probably are the cleanest supported right?
<jacobw> marsilainen: Well, as MartijnVdS, a lot people do plump for Intel over ATI and nVidia
<marsilainen> how far behind ati/nvidia are they?
<pr0ph3t> even patching failed
<pr0ph3t> great
<kvarley> Trying to use the vtech storio in ubuntu using wine. It keeps saying plug the device in when it's plugged in, do I need to make some sort of virtual drive in wine cfg?
<MartijnVdS> device drivers + wine.. doesn't work often
<jacobw> Are there any users of Bytemark Symbiosis here?
<AlanBell> kvarley:  is it a usb device?
<kvarley> AlanBell Yes
<AlanBell> http://wiki.winehq.org/USB
<AlanBell> I guess it doesn't do anything sensible under linux like appear as a drive?
<kvarley> AlanBell: Yes it does which is irritating as it doesnt seem to work with the software but it shows the build in storage and sd card that's plugged into it
<AlanBell> guess the software wants to talk to it directly then
<gord> kvarley, you might have better luck with the non open source version of virtual box
<gord> + a windows install obviously
<danfish> has the uk planet stopped updating?
<jacobw> Hmm, looks like it
<AlexJ_> Evening everyone, I'm trying to do some learning, I have this error message http://i52.tinypic.com/r0bg47.png I know I can press Delete, but can I delete it from the command line instead
<AlexJ_> Hello?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-08
<Darael> AlexJ_: You'll need to use gconftool, I believe.  Gnome-panel settings are stored in gconf.
<jacobw> AlexJ_: You can probably delete the applet from the panel using the gconf command line tool to unset the key in /apps/panel/applets
<jacobw> AlexJ_: http://library.gnome.org/admin/system-admin-guide/stable/gconf-6.html.en
<hamitron> anyone here use Puppy Linux?
<AlexJ_> jacobw: thank you, ill try that
<eddiek> hi there. is there anyone from Blackpool LUG in here
<AlexJ_> jacobw: I typed this but it appears not to have worked, gconftool --unset /apps/panel/applets
<AlexJ_> jacobw: I typed this but it appears not to have worked, gconftool-2 --unset /apps/panel/applets
<AlexJ_> I forgot the "gconftool-2" when typing the first line here
<jacobw> AlexJ_: applets is a directory of keys, I imagine --unset requires a specific key as an argument
<AlexJ_> oh
<AlexJ_> :s
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<hamitron> how can you tell if a package is updated with the server support?
<hamitron> or dropped when the desktop version is no longer supported
<hamitron> !server
<lubotu3> Ubuntu Server Edition is a release of Ubuntu designed especially for server environments, including a server specific !kernel and no !GUI. The install CD contains many server applications. Current !LTS version is !Lucid (Lucid Lynx 10.04) - More info: http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition - Guide: https://help.ubuntu.com/10.04/serverguide/C/ - Support in #ubuntu-server
<cps> anyone else unable to sleep? -.-
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> not actually tried :/
<hamitron> now I will
<hamitron> nn ;)
<ledzeplin1989> hello there all, is there anyone about to help
<ledzeplin1989> need some help with wordpress please
<danfish> has the uk planet stopped updating?
<danfish> oops - ignore that - mistype
<danfish> g'morning btw :)
<LiamGallear> Morning
<MooDoo> morning
<cps_> Morning peeps :)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<cps_> guten morgen czajkowski, wie geht's?
<czajkowski> !de
<lubotu3> In den meisten ubuntu-KanÃ¤len wird nur Englisch gesprochen. FÃ¼r deutschsprachige Hilfe besuchen Sie bitte #ubuntu-de, #kubuntu-de, #edubuntu-de oder #ubuntu-at. Geben Sie einfach /join #ubuntu-de ein! Danke fÃ¼r Ihr VerstÃ¤ndnis.
<MooDoo> czajkowski: morning
<czajkowski> MooDoo: ello
<kvarley> I know wine lets you run windows programs in linux, is there one for mac applications?
<MooDoo> kvarley: not that i'm aware of no
<kvarley> MooDoo: Ok :)
<AlanBell> http://mac-on-linux.sourceforge.net/
<AlanBell> looks dead though
<kvarley> Thanks AlanBell, I'll check it out. I suppose wine will do as nearly all the programs I'd use offer a windows client. Just was interested. :)
<cps> czajkowski: I see what you did there
<kazade> morning all
<kazade> don't suppose anyone in here knows much about packaging?
<kazade> I'm trying to package a library of mine that has a build-depends on libboost-thread-dev, but pbuilder keeps saying this: pbuilder-satisfydepends-dummy: Depends: libboost-thread-dev which is a virtual package.
<popey> !info libboost-thread
<lubotu3> Package libboost-thread does not exist in maverick
<popey> !info libboost-thread-dev
<lubotu3> libboost-thread-dev (source: boost-defaults): portable C++ multi-threading (default version). In component universe, is optional. Version 1.42.0.1ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 2 kB, installed size 32 kB
<czajkowski> how's folks today ?
<kazade> czajkowski, confused, 4 day weeks mess me up :p
<kazade> popey, I think I need to enable universe in my .pbuilderrc
<czajkowski> heh but they are soo nice
<kazade> true that
<popey> yes kazade
<czajkowski> April has a good few 3 and 4 day weeks :D
<popey> alan@wopr:~$ cat .pbuilderrc
<popey> COMPONENTS="main restricted universe multiverse"
<kazade> popey, thanks, running pbuilder create again
<kazade> did I mention that packaging sucks?
<popey> :)
<kazade> ironically, I can write a Windows installer on Ubuntu far FAR FAR quicker than create a native Ubuntu package
<popey> experience++
<kazade> popey, true, but Ubuntu really needs better (read "easier") packaging tools
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm working the weekend
<AlanBell> kazade: it is easy if you use quickly
<kazade> AlanBell, I might take a look at that actually
<kazade> been meaning too for ages
<kazade> btw, where does pbuilder output the package?
<kazade> ah, forgot to sign the package :/
<popey> http://ismycreditcardstolen.com/
<kazade> popey, surely that's a con?
<popey> view source
<kazade> heh, cool, apparently I'm not a stupid person :p
<dwatkins> nice
<nperry> Is there a legal way to download an XP Pro CD for a co-worker?
<dwatkins> nperry: MSDN has ways, I believe, but you probably have to pay for a subscription.
<nperry> Baahhh, I'm only being paid Â£30 to reinstall windows :/
<dwatkins> nperry: then add the cost of the OEM installation media?
<dwatkins> Should be able to get it for less than 60 quid
<dwatkins> http://www.codemicro.com/store/product/BP/x0848123/Refurbished is the cheapest I can see from a quick search
<dwatkins> If you know a Microsoft employee, they can get itr 15 pounds.
<dwatkins> *for
<AlanBell> need to schedule the next team meeting folks
<AlanBell> Monday good for people?
<Yorvyk> Maybe
<danfish> AlanBell: yup
<nperry> dwatkins: I've got the product key, not to sure if that helps
<dwatkins> nperry: on a sticker?
<AlanBell> 8PM or 9PM?
<mattt> wuzzzzzup
<mattt> AlanBell: Monday is not good for me ... but then again, I've missed a slew of those recently :(
<danfish> 9pm would be good :)
<Yorvyk> 21:00 OK
<nperry> dwatkins: yeah
<dwatkins> nperry: right, so essentially the CD is lost, and you could get a 'backup' from somewhere, I guess. Not exactly legit, but I don't think MS sell replacement media.
<dwatkins> I'd be asking around my friends to borrow the physical media (assuming the key will work with it, that is)
<nperry> I'm not to sure if its legal to torrent then use the product key :/
<dwatkins> nperry: I imagine their licensing system wouldn't know the difference.
<dwatkins> Ultimately, you have a sticker, which constitutes the licenes.
 * AlanBell notes the location of ##windows
<nperry> Yeah AlanBell there all douches :/
<dwatkins> AlanBell: indeed, but have you ever tried joining the channel? ;)
<dwatkins> as nperry says
<AlanBell> really?
<AlanBell> I joined ages and ages ago for a bit, didn't seem that bad
<nperry> The trolls must have been in bed.
<AlanBell> not as friendly as the ubuntu channels, but not extreme
<nperry> How good are the memory tests in HP's bios..
<nperry> Says there is no issues, but this doesn't allow booting from USB
<nperry> So can't run memtest :<
<AlanBell> what will it boot from?
<danfish> win! my dad's just texted me to say he's bringing round his laptop - "can I install that nobuntu-thingy on it because all windows gives me is errors and your Mum's laptop runs fine" (her laptop is on 10.04 btw)
<nperry> CD AlanBell but don't have any spare cds at work to burn it onto
<kvarley> danfish =) dadbuntu
<AlanBell> danfish Yorvyk how about 20:30?
<danfish> AlanBell: fine by me
<danfish> kvarley: good idea - the key function I'll need to build in is asking the same question again and again, and a werther's original theme ;)
<kvarley> danfish hehe
<kazade> grr, I don't get this. lintian is complaining about .bzr directories - yet I'm passing the -i parameter to dpkg-buildpackage it's just not ignoring them as it should :(
<kazade> is there an irc channel for packaging issues?
<Yorvyk> AlanBell: OK
<KrimZon> is there any way to get gparted to abort its sequence of operations between operations?
<KrimZon> i didn't realize it would copy all my fiddling around adjusting to different sizes
<danfish> KrimZon: probably not a good idea to interupt gparted
<danfish> pain may follow
<kvarley> struggling here - found a game called Red Orchestra, it's a mod for unreal tournament 2004 so does that mean I can play it on linux? The have released Red Orchestra 2 Heroes of Stalingrad, is that still based on unreal tournament?
<KrimZon> oh well, doesn't look like it'll take unbearably long
<KrimZon> looks like it would've been quicker to delete the data partitions and resize the OS partition, then copy the data back
<KrimZon> except, even though the data is recoverable it's not an exact backup of what's on disk at the moment, so it'd cause a lot of fiddling about to restore it if i stop gparted
<KrimZon> and it'll be interesting to see what happens to the ntfs junctions
<kazade> can someone post me the output of: apt-file search shared_ptr.hpp ?
<popey> 11:29:38 < nperry> I'm not to sure if its legal to torrent then use the product key :/
<brobostigon> afternoonings all.
<kazade> my apt-file seems borked
<popey> nperry: I suspect you know exactly how legal that is
 * popey points kazade at packages.ubuntu.com
<popey> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?searchon=contents&keywords=shared_ptr.hpp&mode=exactfilename&suite=maverick&arch=any
<popey> libboost1.40-dev, libboost1.42-dev
<kazade> popey, thanks, didn't know about that
<kazade> doh, I'd used "sudo apt-file update" but then non-sudo apt-file search...
<kazade> there was no user-level apt-file cache
<AlanBell> popey: 9PM monday good for you?
<popey> AlanBell: yes
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived:  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List:    http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines -  http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Monday January 10th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting   http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet
<Azelphur> you know your computers getting a little insane when you overload an 850W PSU >.<
<Azelphur> at least, I think that's whats going on.
<jacobw> Wow, I've never seen a quit message from an Emacs IRC client before
<AlanBell> Daviey: do we have a stash of CDs and a funky new banner and box of goodies?
 * brobostigon sighs, pastedpages worth of mailing list, for only two lines of actual text.
<jenkins> my laptop graphics card is nearly failed am i right in thinking if I can get ssh installed i can run it headless?
<daubers> Afternoon
<marxjohnson> that it is
<daubers> jenkins: Yes
<ocean_> hi guys can any one suggest me a channel to discuss about hybrid graphics card use in linux
<daubers> !openssh-server | jenkins
<jenkins> cool thanks,
<daubers> !info openssh-server | jenkins
<lubotu3> jenkins: openssh-server (source: openssh): secure shell (SSH) server, for secure access from remote machines. In component main, is optional. Version 1:5.5p1-4ubuntu4 (maverick), package size 294 kB, installed size 800 kB
<jenkins> I just hope i can get it installed before it fails completly
<jacobw> I know there was a discussion about updating couchdb in Lucid to support U1 contact sync, where the updated packages pushed? if not can I manually update a 10.04 instalation to use these packages?
<jacobw> s/where/were
<kvarley> I haven't got any sound in team combat elite or enemy territory in ubuntu 10.10 64-bit. Does ubuntu have oss support?
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<jacobw> A giant rain cloud an enveloped my house :|
<jacobw> s/an/has
<jacobw> I think I need an electric shock everytime I make a typo :(
<jonsaint> hello all
<jonsaint> does anyone know if you can install ubuntu on a netbook running ce v6
<brobostigon> jonsaint: can you tell us the model of  said netbook, please.
<jonsaint> its a arnova 10. its my daughters but ce is a total waste of time, she knows how to use ubuntu....we all do. we aint great fans of mucrosoft products!
<brobostigon> it looks like it is an arm device, debian has a very developed version for arm, so in theory it is possible, how,no idea.
<penguin42> jonsaint: It looks like it's pretty low on RAM
<penguin42> http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=2653&c=archos_arnova_10
<Pendulum> yeah, even UNE needs more RAM than it looks like that has
<jonsaint> yeah. it aint got nothing special in there
<penguin42> jonsaint: I think it's pretty unlikely without a bit of kernel level hacking to get it to go first
<Pendulum> jonsaint: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/SystemRequirements#Ubuntu%20Netbook%20Edition has the current system requirements for the regular Ubuntu flavours
<brobostigon> debian could run inside that ram, but it would have to be quite minimalist.
<jonsaint> drat. i hate this software. so its too low spec for ubuntu?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ubuntu NB has been built for ARM machines, but it tends to be quite model specific... http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-netbook/ports/releases/10.10/release/
<jonsaint> i dont think it would work.... oh well. :-(
<Pendulum> they also still seem to want at least 256MB of RAM
<jonsaint> not sure what this has got
<penguin42> jonsaint: You cna get ARM Linux running in 128MB of RAM easily enough with a cut down ubuntu setup - but you'll need a kernel/X that understands that hardware - and I'm not sure if that exists; I suspect it's buildable but will take some figuring out
<jonsaint> yeah its only got 128 ram. my calculators probably got more memory than this thing
<jonsaint> anyway folks many thanks for tying. hope you all have a nice saturday
<jenkins> I am trying to ssh into my laptop and I can't work out why its not working I am getting http://paste.ubuntu.com/551808/ any suggestions?
<penguin42> jenkins: It's getting upset by the -l
<penguin42> jenkins: I think it's trying to login to ip 2222 using username p
<jenkins> are ok, how do i use adifferent user name on the server then?
<penguin42> you already are doing with the usernameÎ©address
<penguin42> oops,
<penguin42> username@address
<jenkins> k thanks I am trying now and I haev a different error
<penguin42> you can do ssh -l username hostname     or    ssh username@hostname
<jenkins> i see :)
<jenkins> its a problem with the keys the public one is on the clinet and the private on the server right?
<penguin42> yeh
<jenkins> hmm I wonder what I haev wrong
<penguin42> so what do you get now?
<jenkins>  http://paste.ubuntu.com/551811/
<penguin42> That looks to me like the authorised keys on the destination doesn't have your public key properly
<jenkins> I will just check where it is
<mgdm> check ther permissions on .ssh and .ssh/authorized_keys too
<mgdm> .ssh should be 700, authorized_keys should be 600
<jenkins> ok I will check that, it will take a moment as I only have one external screen and one keyboard/mouse
<mgdm> there's a handy wee utility called 'ssh-copy-id' that does al taht for you, provided you can get in with a PW
<ocean_> hi can any one help me through setting up hybrid graphic card switch on ubuntu 10.10 please
<jenkins> hmm permissons are fine. I may have to try allowing passwords to copy it across
<kaushal> Hi
<ocean_> kaushal, hi
<kaushal> ocean_: hi
<kaushal> Please suggest me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-January/238179.html
<czajkowski> kaushal: you might find reporting bugs better answered if you report them via lauchpad rather than a ML sorry
<kaushal> ok
<czajkowski> it's the best way to report a bug tbh
<kaushal> czajkowski: so as a temporary measure ?
<kaushal> Do i need to reinstall the OS ?
<czajkowski> kaushal: I'm sorry I don't know
<kaushal> I feel 10.10 is filled with bugs
<kaushal> I have upgraded the OS and it gives error
<popey> seems like some odd config there kaushal
<kaushal> popey: ok
<popey> you also dont say how it failed
<popey> just [failed]
<czajkowski> popey: oi oi ;)
<kaushal> popey: so as a remedy do i need to run fsck >
<popey> o/
<kaushal> ?*
<popey> I don't yet know what the issue is
<kaushal> I mean unmount /dev/sda5
<popey> i dont know what happens when you go into recovery mode so dont yet know what the issue is
<ocean_> hi guys i am using ubuntu 10.10 64 bit.the machine has ATI monility radeon TM HD 5470 graphics switchable with intel HD GMA. on linux after a bit of googling in installed switcheroo and UCC . when i choose low graphics it shows intel chip is active. when i choose high perfomance under UCC>network info>display i cant see ATI card. instaed it says mesa project, software rasterizer. moreover my compiz doesnt work when i choose high perfomance graphics. is t
<ocean_> here anyway to get around this and make my ATI work.thanks
<ocean_> I would appreciate any help guiding in the right direction even if its not a proper fix
<ocean_> tx
<kvarley> I must be missing something here, I can
<kvarley> *can't find how to locate the svn of a project on sourceforge
<kvarley> http://sourceforge.net/projects/openmohaa/
<popey> svn co https://openmohaa.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/openmohaa openmohaa
<kvarley> popey: How did you find that?
<popey> google + svn + openmohaa
<kvarley> Ah ok, sorry
<mgdm> kvarley: it's under the 'develop' tab on SF
<kvarley> Oh yeah my bad, thanks popey and mgdm
<ocean_> popey, any help regarding the above problem :-)
<popey> ocean_: sorry, I dont have or plan to have any ATI hardware
<ocean_> popey, tx,
<MartijnVdS> <-- Achievement unlocked: Master Ikea "Billy" builder
<jenkins> ocean_: if you feel competent to have you tried removing the intel card and starting you computer? It may then use the ati card this would to prove it works with compiz.
<popey> ooo, we have Billy
<jenkins> billy? popey
<MartijnVdS> jenkins: Ikea :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have Billy and Expedit now :)
 * jenkins does not get it
<popey> its a product name
<MartijnVdS> jenkins: http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/83688210
<jenkins> I see now i get it
<popey> mine is beech veneer
<popey> i had to use pythagoras to figure out if it would fit in the room
<ocean_> jenkins, i need some help to do it if u don mind.
<MartijnVdS> popey: I have 2 in Beech veneer (1x 80cm, 1x 40cm wide), drilled some extra holes for more shelves = more CDs :)
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: and one in "black-brown"
<MartijnVdS> but that's in another room
<jenkins> ocean_: I am not really able to tell you how to remove it over irc, its not to easy to explain. Is the intel card part of the motherboard?
<MartijnVdS> jenkins: intel cards are always on-board
<MartijnVdS> jenkins: sometimes even part of the CPU
<jenkins> darn , sorry I did not know that
<jenkins> ok the only solution I can think off is to remove intel graphics driver packages and hope it uses the ait card on boot. if not you will need to be able to reinstall the packages using a live cd which is not easy. Does this logic make sense anyone?
<kvarley> Trying to make openmohaa and it fails, any suggestions as to what I need to do? http://paste.ubuntu.com/551830/
<popey> kvarley: you ran configure?
<popey> also, why are you compiling it?
<popey> surely its packaged?
<czajkowski> any dr. who Daleks fans? Argos are selling off mini ones for 5 quid in Aldershot
<kvarley> popey: Doesn't seem to be for linux
<kaushal> popey: It happened after the usual update manager process and asked for reboot
<kaushal> and then never booted
<kaushal> and that message
<popey> kaushal: what happens when you go into recovery mode?
<kaushal> never tried
<kaushal> anything to be done ?
<popey> uh
<popey> thats not what your email says
<popey> "Steps I tried:
<popey> 1. Tried the recovery mode from grub. [failed]
<popey> "
<kaushal> ah sorry
<kaushal> yes
<kvarley> popey: There is no configure, in the readme it just says make.
<kaushal> popey: Do you need more information ?
<kaushal> is there a recent bug reported on Launchpad ?
<popey> 16:05:39 < popey> kaushal: what happens when you go into recovery mode?
<kaushal> it fails
<popey> that is not an answer
<popey> what happens
<popey> kvarley: trying it here
<kaushal> popey: please give me a moment
<kaushal> Thanks popey
<popey> kvarley: do you have the original MOHAA pak files?
<kvarley> popey: Yes but the readme gives the impression you dont need them until after you've made it
<popey> sure
<popey> kvarley: there's not a lot of stuff online about this on linux, which makes me think it's not been properly ported to linux
<kvarley> popey: I have looked at forums and sourceforge dates and it seems like it's dead
<popey> kvarley: http://icculus.org/~ravage/mohaa/
<popey> ?
<kvarley> popey: That's not the open one
<popey> ah
<kvarley> popey: I was just interested in the open one but am not bothered if it's not working as the project seems to have dried up
<kvarley> popey: Thanks for looking :)
<popey> yeah, it barfs in the same way here
<kvarley> popey: Too bad, I'll stick to trying to fix audio on tc-elite lol
<popey> sorry, I dont know how to fix that
<kvarley> popey: On a side note, whens the next uupc ?
<popey> dunno
<kvarley> hehe
<popey> unlikely to be before mid feb
<jenkins> I have made it work thanks mgdm and penguin42, part of the problem was that I had typed an extra s on the user name that was allowed to ssh into the machine
<mgdm> jenkins: ah, that'd do it! good that you got it sorted
<jenkins> yea I also re did the keys using password authentication
<Pendulum> mgdm: how are you?!
<mgdm> Pendulum: I'm fine ta, you?
<Pendulum> good :)
<Pendulum> have not seen you around for ages :(
<mgdm> I've been rather busy
<Pendulum> I can tell
<Pendulum> I hope all is well :)
<mgdm> aye, things are fine :) sitting in among boxes just now - moving flat
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/216101/ubuntu_adds_sparkle_to_nufront_laptops_at_ces.html
<brobostigon> what is a good place to start,for independent, non-biased uk market research surrounding linux ?
<ocean_> hi guys i am using ubuntu 10.10 64 bit.the machine has ATI monility radeon TM HD 5470 graphics switchable with intel HD GMA. on linux after a bit of googling in installed switcheroo and UCC . when i choose low graphics it shows intel chip is active. when i choose high perfomance under UCC>network info>display i cant see ATI card. instaed it says mesa project, software rasterizer. moreover my compiz doesnt work when i choose high perfomance graphics. is t
<ocean_>  here anyway to get around this and make my ATI work.thanks
<ocean_>  I would appreciate any help guiding in the right direction even if its not a proper fix
<ocean_>  tx
<brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_adoption is the closest to useful i have found upto now.
<penguin42> ocean_: Have you got the ATI closed drives installed or the free ones?
<ocean_> penguin42, i tried to install FGLRX. on reboot there was no GUI. so i reinstalled ubuntu and i havent installed anything in particular
<penguin42> ocean_: How did you install frglx - with the ubuntu jockey/hardware drivers gui or from ati's site?
<brobostigon> fglrx*
<penguin42> erm indeed
<ocean_> penguin42, installed from system>admin>additional drivers
<penguin42> hmm that should work
<penguin42> ocean_: In your BIOS can you force it into one or other of the intel or ati modes?
<ocean_> penguin42, there is no option in BIOS i have cheked it
<ocean_> with the help of switcheroo i can see that the switch possible
<penguin42> ocean_: Hmm that sucks; the laptop I use has options to do the autoswitching them, or to fix at either the intel or AMD
<penguin42> ocean_: Hmm ok, I've not tried switcheroo - with switcheroo and if you switch into the ATI mode what does X do?
<ocean_> penguin42, for the time being i don mind fixing it to ATI. its so disappointing and my  machine is getting overheated as well
<ocean_> penguin42, there is an option in UCC called VGA switching. u can either select low perfomance or high perfomance. when i switch to high perfomance the ATI card disappears from system info. and no compiz as well
<penguin42> ocean_: does it show up in lspci?
<ocean_> sorry when i switch to low perfomance intel chip is dispalyed
<ocean_> at high perfomance ATI  is not shown
<penguin42> odd
<ocean_> penguin42, is it because ATI hasnt got any drivers?
<penguin42> ocean_: It should show up in an lspci without drivers
<penguin42> ocean_: If it doesn't show up in lspci I doubt there is much chance
<ocean_> penguin42, it is showing up on lspci http://paste-bin.com/view/5572ef1c
<penguin42> ocean_: OK, so what happens if you try and start X?  What's in /var/log/Xorg.0.log ?
<ocean_> penguin42, http://paste-bin.com/view/18abcd8d
<penguin42> ocean_: OK, so that's detected the intel card and blown up because it's not really there
<ocean_> penguin42, what does that mean? so there is no ATI card in there!!!
<penguin42> ocean_: Well if your lspci is to be believed it is there, so what I'd try is to write an /etc/X11/xorg.conf that explicitly uses the ATI card
<niall> Hey, I have some kernel parameters to pass via Grub at boot time. How would I do this on a persistent basis?
<penguin42> ocean_: What I'm surprised at is that doing the switcheroo the intel card is still lsited
<penguin42> ocean_: So I don't know why X is finding the intel card given your lspci
<penguin42> ocean_: My guess (without having one to try it on) is that you boot with the Intel, do the magic to switch on the ATI but something (hal? udev?) hasn't noticed
<ocean_> penguin42, does it mean that ATI card is there but not used by switcheroo?
<penguin42> ocean_: I think the fact it shows up in lcpsi means switcheroo is doing it's job, but I don't know the details of switcheroo
<ocean_> penguin42, is there anyway to use ATI from the boot up not bothering about the switch so that i can use ubuntu?
<penguin42> ocean_: Well that's why I asked about the BIOS; when you are running the switch program are you doing that from within Intel X or from the command line?
<ocean_> penguin42, sorry i don understand what X is. i just use the GUI to make that switch
<penguin42> ocean_: OK, to get any further I suspect you'll need to understand a lot more about the underneath of the GUI
<penguin42> ocean_: But I've not tried the switch stuff to know enough about how switching works - but I'm retty familiar with how normal stuff works
<ocean_> penguin42, if there is no switcheroo how would u fix this problem? i was not able to ATI right from the install. fglrx broke the GUI as well
<penguin42> ocean_: I'd stick with the intel, or I'd hand wirte an xorg.conf file
<ocean_> penguin42, what would the file do?
<ocean_> can i still do it?
<penguin42> ocean_: At the moment the GUI is finding the hardware for itself - and not doing very well; but you can say to it 'use this driver with this PCI device and configure it like this'
<ocean_> penguin42, is there any helpful link for it. I would try it and see how it goes
<penguin42> ocean_: Well here is the manual http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/maverick/man5/xorg.conf.5.html  but it's a bit hard reading, I'm sure there are some articles that are easier for starters
<pr0ph3t> how do I add a device in /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: that happens automatically
<MartijnVdS> why do you want to do it?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, not with my 3g modem unfortunately
<pr0ph3t> how do I get the ATTR{address}?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: is it a different device each time?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: like eth0, eth1, eth2, eth3, etc.
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, it is built-in so it is always the same
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: that's what 70-persistent-net.rules does.. it makes sure that every device (with a specific hardware address (mac address)) gets the same name (eth0, eth1, etc.) to the system
<MartijnVdS> after restarting
<MartijnVdS> so if the name is already the same every time, you don't need to change it
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I don't know if it is, it just has NO CARRIER on AT commands response
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I'm trying to find what the problem could be
<MartijnVdS> it's not this :)
<MartijnVdS> persistent-net.rules is just there to give devices consistent names across system restarts.
<MartijnVdS> I got "no carrier" a lot today on my 3G modem
<MartijnVdS> it was caused by setting "Prefer 3G over GPRS" in the connection settings
<pr0ph3t> Martkdoes it matter if on lsusb the device is recognised as E620
<pr0ph3t> sorry pressed enter by mistake
<MartijnVdS> Huawei E620 should work fine
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, does it matter if on lsusb the device is recognised as E620 and AT command gives me EM770 instead?
<pr0ph3t> but is it?
<MartijnVdS> no, it should not matter.
<MartijnVdS> As long as commands like "AT+COPS=?" work (that ones takes up to a minute to return, it searches for available 3G/GSM networks)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, well it doesn't
<pr0ph3t> because I have no carrier signal
<pr0ph3t> so it can't return anything
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: how have you tried?
<pr0ph3t> with two terminals
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: because modem-manager tends to take the modem device for itself.
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: "two terminals", which program did you use?
<MartijnVdS> What happened to modem-manager?
<MartijnVdS> What does /var/log/daemon.log say when you ask network-manager to connect?
<pr0ph3t> I used tr -s "\n" < /dev/ttyUSB0 on one terminal
<pr0ph3t> and passed the AT commands with echo -e on another terminal
<MartijnVdS> try "screen /dev/ttyUSB0" next time (exit with Ctrl+A k y)
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: and "ATE" (enable local echo) :)
<pr0ph3t> still same results
<MartijnVdS> (you'll have to type the command blind, but after that you should see what you're typing)
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: Which command did you send to the modem? What did it give back? Can you pastebin it?
<MartijnVdS> (remember: I can't see your screen, so I have to guess!)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, AT+COPS? returns just 0
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: and AT+COPS=?
<MartijnVdS> with the "="
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, error
<pr0ph3t> tried it a lot
<MartijnVdS> so it's not connected to a network, and scanning for networks = error
<MartijnVdS> Did you turn off the radio in some way?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I never turned them on is what I think
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: did you enter the PIN for the SIM?
<pr0ph3t> how would I do that is what I am trying to find out
<pr0ph3t> no need for pin
<MartijnVdS> ah, good
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, +CSQ gives 99,99
<pr0ph3t> so again no carrier
<pr0ph3t> no signal
<MartijnVdS> What does "AT+CFUN?" say?
<pr0ph3t> NO CARRIER
<MartijnVdS> hm
<pr0ph3t> radio is off
<pr0ph3t> it must be
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: AT+CFUN queries radio status...
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: AT+CFUN? queries, AT+CFUN=? lists supported modes, AT+CFUN=1,0 enables without reset, AT+CFUN=1,1 enables and resets device
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I just get the same message with all of those
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: that's the radio on/off radio functionality
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: NO CARRIER?
<MartijnVdS> or something specific
<MartijnVdS> ?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, yes
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: is modem-manager running?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, but haewei doesn't give out the at commands
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: that doesn't matter. these are in a GSM spec that's freely available and shuold be supported by most GSM/3G modems :)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, you mean NetworkManager?
<MartijnVdS> ps xa
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> ps ax | grep modem-manager
<MartijnVdS> that should list a modem-manager process
<MartijnVdS> it's sort-of part of network-manager, but it's a separate proces
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: is the SIM of the same brand as the modem? The modem might be SIM-locked to some operator
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, yes
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, the sim works on windows on same hardware
<MartijnVdS> OK, so that's not the problem
<pr0ph3t> and the modem manager is running
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: can you pastebin /var/log/daemon.log when you try to connect through network-manager?
<ocean_> penguin42, sorry i was away for some time. if i am reconfiguring it would it use the ATI all the time?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS,  not syslog?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: /var/log/daemon.log contains all modem-manager and network-manager details
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: at least, it does here
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, it's just unknown error 32
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, and same output in syslog
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: I'm sorry, I've run out of ideas
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: you could try looking around on launchpad for bugs related to your device, or on the forums..
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I think the AT commands have been modified?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, there is a bug
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: no, that's impossible. AT commands are AT commands.
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, and it has been patched apparently
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: subscribe to it, supply the people who reply with answers to their questions :)
<MartijnVdS> I have no idea
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, it has been patched and merged to the mainline, I run 2.6.37 kernel
<MartijnVdS> ah! critical information :)
<MartijnVdS> What happens when you use the default Ubuntu kernel?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, http://dev.iksaif.net/issues/108, exactly the same
<MartijnVdS> that's not a launchpad bug
<pr0ph3t> that's the bugfix address
<pr0ph3t> for a acpi4asus bug
<MartijnVdS> if it's not in Launchpad, Ubuntu people don't know about it. You can link bugs to upstream trackers.
<pr0ph3t> if you read the last comment it says
<pr0ph3t> at the bottom, the anon is me
<pr0ph3t> I don't understand entirely what is going on but it seems the rf switches for the 3g modem radio kill were not implemented in the original asus-laptop driver
<MartijnVdS> Sounds like what happened on my Sony
<MartijnVdS> But there the device just didn't show up until they fixed the sony-laptop driver
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, but now they fixed the problem, but on the patch comment it say they did not add the rf switches for wwan and wimax because they might just be for the led and not the hardware it self
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: can you try if it works from the latest alpha live CD?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: (you don't need to install it, just try if 3G works)
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: the alphas have a .37 kernel
<pr0ph3t> as I said I am running 2.6.37 kernel
<MartijnVdS> and the entire "support structure" needed to make them work properly
<pr0ph3t> the one that came out on the 5th o jan
<MartijnVdS> which 10.10 doesn't have.
<pr0ph3t> I also tried natty
<MartijnVdS> latest "current"? an alpha? which one?
<pr0ph3t> current
<MartijnVdS> did it work?
<pr0ph3t> after rc8
<pr0ph3t> is what I am running now but in maverick
<MartijnVdS> did you try the natty-current live cd, or did you just install the kernel from natty in maverick?
<pr0ph3t> natty I tried it but it didn't work
<pr0ph3t> I did both
<MartijnVdS> Then please file a bug on launchpad, mentioning that asus4acpi bug. People might be able to fix it before natty release then.
<MartijnVdS> if it's not on launchpad, Ubuntu people don't know about it, and the chances of getting the fix into the next ubuntu version are near zero
<pr0ph3t> by reading what it says there on that link Dan Haworth managed to get it to work using that patch
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: please read what I'm telling you...
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, but it has been merged into mainline, does that not mean it is in the ubuntu kernel as well?
<jacobw> depends on release schedules etc
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: usually it does, but sometimes it takes a while for Ubuntu to pick up releases
<pr0ph3t> but let's say it was merged in 2.6.37-rc6
<pr0ph3t> mainline that is, now I am running the final 2.6.37
<pr0ph3t> ubuntu kernel
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: Just file the bug. The kernel people will check for you.
<dwatkins> AlanBell: I've fallen into your trap, and find myself helping people on ##windows ;)
<pr0ph3t> that should have the updated driver?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: it's not just the driver. it's updated udev and some other "user-space" bits that might also be breaking it
 * brobostigon feels worried about dwatkins 
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: INTERVENTION
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: heh
 * AlanBell is now full of guilt
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: "first one's free"
<pr0ph3t> help :(
<AlanBell> with what pr0ph3t?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: ubuntu-bug linux
<pr0ph3t> this 3g modem
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: no the 3G modem is fine. it's the ASUS laptop driver that doesn't enable it correctly.
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: don't make AlanBell go through the same steps I've already done please :)
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: just use that ubuntu-bug command to file a bug on the kernel (preferrably from the live-cd environment with current natty)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, there is a guy that has it working, he just patched the kernel and it worked for him
<MartijnVdS> Are you afraid of filing the bug?
<pr0ph3t> I am afraid it is just a bug in my head, something I did wrong
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: I'm telling you it's not. And if it is, people will close the bug again, no harm done.
 * AlanBell reads back then advises pr0ph3t to file a bug on launchpad and link the other one to it
<pr0ph3t> like just press "c" numbnuts and it will work or something
<AlanBell> you get karma for filing bugs
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: does karma buy discounts in the canonical store? ;)
<pr0ph3t> you don't need discounts, it's all free
<DJones> pr0ph3t: File a bug, at the worst you'll get asked for more information
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: File 500 bugs, get Â£5 off on DB2
<AlanBell> file 7299 bugs and get one of these http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=776
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ooh, sexy
<DJones> AlanBell: Without clicking the link, is that Borat's cyling outfit?
<MartijnVdS> it is
<brobostigon> lol
<pr0ph3t> h
<pr0ph3t> the fact that uname -r gives 2.6.37 does it necessarily mean that that is the kernel I am running?
<penguin42> yes
<MartijnVdS> but it doesn't mean that a .37 kernel will work 100% OK with maverick
<MartijnVdS> because some programs that communicate with the kernel might be "too old"
<DJones> pr0ph3t: As far as I can see, Maverick use the 2.36.35 kernel
<MartijnVdS> DJones: he's installed a .37 from natty on maverick
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Yes, I guessing that, was just pointing it out, pr0ph3t is possibly better asking in #ubuntu+1 that may be able to help, although its unlikely as its an unsupported version
<MartijnVdS> DJones: read the log for the last hour :)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, gosh it took that long, thanks for the help by the way MartijnVdS
<pr0ph3t> and yes I am filing a bug
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<pr0ph3t> is that a typo?
<pr0ph3t> brb
<ocean_>  hi guys i am using ubuntu 10.10 64 bit.the machine has ATI monility radeon TM HD 5470 graphics switchable with intel HD GMA. on linux after a bit of googling in installed switcheroo and UCC . when i choose low graphics it shows intel chip is active. when i choose high perfomance under UCC>network info>display i cant see ATI card. instaed it says mesa project, software rasterizer. moreover my compiz doesnt work when i choose high perfomance graphics.
<jacobw> New series of Hustle \o/
<brobostigon> get_iplayer to the rescue. :)
<MartijnVdS> get_iplayer \o/
<jacobw> Hmm, I remember last time I tried using get_iplayer than Flash video was a PITA to transcode
<MartijnVdS> ocean_: Ubuntu doesn't support on-the-fly graphics chip switching
<MartijnVdS> ocean_: it's a wonder that it works as well as it does.
<ocean_> MartijnVdS, can i use ati alone by some how/
<jacobw> Speaking of which, is it possible to switch between battery and AC power in software on Linux?
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: there's hardware that supports that?!
 * MartijnVdS doesn't know if it
<jacobw> Laptop hardware must support that because it switches from AC to battery and back again when it detects a power input
<AlanBell> jacobw: it doesn't really expose that to the software though
<AlanBell> or when plugged in to mains allow the user to decide to use battery
<jacobw> AlanBell: I feared as much :(
<AlanBell> why would you want it?
<jacobw> AlanBell: I wanted to write a script to switch the laptop to battery power when the battery was full to charge cycle the battery in laptops left on AC all the time
<jacobw> AlanBell: And also to copy the AC power management profile to battery profile during run downs to keep it fairly unintrusive
<ali1234> why would you want to cycle a lithium battery?
<jacobw> ali1234: As far as I understand it, cycling batteries is the only way to stop them degrading?
<dwatkins> jacobw: why not just rely on the hardware for that sort of thing? It should detect when the battery is full and stop cherging it at that point.
<dwatkins> If you really want to stop your battery degrading, remove it when you boot up your laptop when connected to the power, jacobw ;)
<ali1234> no, cycling batteries wears them out faster
<ali1234> the reason that they tell you to cycle laptops batteries is the keep the battery gauge calibrated
<brobostigon> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-ion_battery#Advantages    no memory affect, so no need for cycling.
<ali1234> you can't stop a lithium battery from degrading anyway
<ali1234> the best you can do is charge it 50% then put it in the fridge
<brobostigon> agreed.
<ali1234> even then it will have a shelf life of about 3 years
<brobostigon> http://www.osnews.com/comments/24225 ouch,how sad apple is.
<ali1234> the developer specifically asked for it to be removed in that case
<ali1234> sorry, "a" developer, not "the" developer
<ali1234> because there is no "the" developer of vlc
<brobostigon> yes, but it is really sad nonetheless,
<ali1234> why?
<ali1234> like he said, i'm not sad for the apple users
<brobostigon> ali1234: me neither,but i would haveliked them to have more.
 * brobostigon goes awayand reads http://www.haiku-os.org/blog/zooey/2011-01-08_package_management_first_draft
<brobostigon> interesting ideas,
<pr0ph3t> hey all
<pr0ph3t> I have to say I find the absence of a applications menu quite confusing
<pr0ph3t> in natty narwhal
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: it's not done yet.
<pr0ph3t> have you tried it?
<ali1234> switch to "gnome classic" on the login screen
<pr0ph3t> yes I know you can do that
<jacobw> Also, doesn't clicking the Ubuntu logo in the top left corner bring up a panel of applications?
<pr0ph3t> I usually have something like cairo dock with all the stuff I use the most
<pr0ph3t> it brings a view with all the applications but in no particular order
<pr0ph3t> that was for jacobw
<dwatkins> I can't see this particular version of Ubuntu described without thinking of this: http://www.weebls-stuff.com/songs/Narwhals/
<pr0ph3t> dwatkins, cool
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://www.reddit.com/r/narwhals/
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I did wonder if there was a link, thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: bacon, narwhals :)
<dwatkins> bacon, MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> http://www.reddit.com/r/bacon
<MartijnVdS> Reddit = Narwhals + Bacon + alien
<dwatkins> urrrm, now you've lost me
<dwatkins> I'm reading up on the reasons for choosing NAtty Narwhal as a name for the latest Ubuntu version.
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> I'm repeating the things a lot of people on reddit seem to like :)
<pr0ph3t> the side could replace cairo and have all the applications you use the most, but there should always be a certain order in the applications folder
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: "The Narwhal, as an Arctic (and somewhat endangered) animal, is a fitting reminder of the fact that we have only one spaceship that can host all of humanity"
<Nafallo> waiwut?!
<Nafallo> we have spaceships now?
<dwatkins> Nafallo: The Earth is being described as a spaceship.
<brobostigon> the earth, :)
<Nafallo> meh
<Nafallo> disappointing
 * dwatkins directs Nafallo to the engine room
 * Nafallo goes to hell, then.
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaceship_Earth_(Epcot)
<pr0ph3t> can the side bar in natty be customised?
<MartijnVdS> no
<pr0ph3t> you can just add you applications
<pr0ph3t> once you run them for the first time
<pr0ph3t> maybe you should have 2 side bars
<MartijnVdS> !designteam
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: http://design.canonical.com/
<Nafallo> ohbtw. applications you start with something like gnome-do, can't be marked permanent.
<Nafallo> took me several weeks to figure that one out.
<gord> they should be able to, file a bug?
<Nafallo> gord: even for the 10.10 version then?
<gord> erm no not for 10.10, confirm the bug exists in 11.04 first
<Nafallo> heh, okay.
<Nafallo> just waiting for alpha-2 I think.
<Nafallo> mutter drives me inssane
 * AlanBell tickles Daviey 
<gord> AlanBell, think he is travelling today
<AlanBell> ok
 * MartijnVdS re-organises a lot of cables
<MartijnVdS> no more network cables crossing the room
<MartijnVdS> \o/
 * Nafallo waits for MartijnVdS to ping out
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: good thing I'm on wifi then ;)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, today you suggested I should use ATE instead of what I was using to test my 3g modem
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: the wireless should connect to wire somewhere :-P
<pr0ph3t> can you tell me again how it worked please?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: ATE is the AT command to enable local echo of commands (so it shows letters as you type them, not only the output/return value)
<AlanBell> pr0ph3t: http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/todays-chatter/
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: using screen: screen /dev/ttyUSB0 (you can exit with Ctrl+A, then "k", then "y")
<AlanBell> if you want to review the logs for today
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: ap is part of the dsl modem
<pr0ph3t> thanks AlanBell, MartijnVdS
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: eeew. you're not re-cabling that thne? :-P
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: no, just the bit in my "computer geek room" :)
 * brobostigon wnts one of those, :(
 * Nafallo would prefer to have less technical stuff at home :-P
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: 3-bedroom appartment + alone :)
<Nafallo> and a smaller home actually.
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: That's why I've concentrated my technical stuff in one room
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i am jealous now, :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: don't be. Being alone isn't always fun :)
<Nafallo> MartijnVdS: I could do that to! ...if I had a studio flat ;-)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i mean a dedicated geek room.
<Nafallo> brobostigon: geeks are much more fun to store in pubs anyway.
<brobostigon> Nafallo: agreed, with loads of real ale.:)
<Nafallo> +1
<MartijnVdS> ale \o
<MartijnVdS> /
 * brobostigon install a bar in this geekroom,
 * brobostigon goes towatch QIXL.
<MartijnVdS> good idea
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: bbc2, now.
<Nafallo> bah. I want a mini fridge in the data centre :-P
<jacobw> QI is good this week
<kieko> good morning
<jacobw> Good evening :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: *click* :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: :)
<brobostigon> no spolilers please.
<kieko> can someone tell me how to get a sip number? for fring on htc desire hd
<MartijnVdS> kieko: go to a SIP provider and get an account?
<kieko> MartijnVdS: any?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, there is good news, that command you told me about, +CFUN returns something now
<MartijnVdS> kieko: sip is just a protocol
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: good!
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, so something has changed, the device is receiving a signal now
<pr0ph3t> right?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: so +COPS=? returns something as well?
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, still error, but it might be because of +CTFUN
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: set the radio on -> +CFUN=1,1
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, that gives error
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: 1,0 then? or +CFUN=?
<MartijnVdS> (that last one lists supported values)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, the last one gives: +CFUN: (0-1,4-7),(0-1)
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: that means you can use 0, 1, 4, 5, 6, 7 before the comma, and 0 or 1 after :)
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: you can google for the meanings :)
<pr0ph3t> why do I get error though :/
<suprengr> o/
<suprengr> wondering: if "ignorance is bliss"  ... why aren't there more happy people in the world?
<brobostigon> suprengr: like conservative voters.
<suprengr> biting tongue here.... trying to not to laugh....
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> suprengr: funny though, :), am i watching and listening to to much satire?
<suprengr> *never* a person has been found suffering from too much satire ; only the opposite [imho]
<brobostigon> not enough satire, so too lack of a sense of humour ?
<MartijnVdS> suprengr: also, cynicism :P
<suprengr> only for those that have never realised that sarcasm. like satire; if stated well - is the *highest* form of wit ;)
<suprengr> ...& cheers to me... I am a creature that I like call a cynic - but a healthy cynic
<suprengr> [a good dose of cynicism would cure half of the world's internet probs!]
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-09
<i-pink> hii all
<i-pink> what i can do about "dependencies" problem
<penguin42> depends on the problem
<i-pink> this is the error
<i-pink> http://pastebin.com/qdKAkj5Z
<i-pink> i try to do  sudo apt-get update
<i-pink> but it not help me..
<penguin42> what happens if you do apt-get install libqt4-svg
<i-pink> http://pastebin.com/p7wVVpkz
<i-pink> this is the error^
<penguin42> do a sudo apt-get update   and then try it again?
<penguin42> are you running with any ppas or the like?
<i-pink> i have tried that.. but i get the same problem..
<penguin42> on 10.10/maverick?
<penguin42> ah - lucid?
<i-pink> on ubutnu 10.04 LTS
<i-pink> 64 bit
<penguin42> http://packages.ubuntu.com/lucid-updates/libqt4-svg shows that there is a libqt4-svg version 4.6.2-0ubuntu5.1 in lucid-updates that is dependent on the 4.6.2-0ubuntu5.1 that it's trying to install
<i-pink> so i need to make update to my ubuntu?
<penguin42> no, the fact that it's trying to install some 4.6.2-0ubuntu5.1 means it should be trying them all
<penguin42> what version of libqt4-svg is it trying to install?
 * penguin42 needs to go to bed - it's nearly 2am
<i-pink> 4:4.6.2-0ubuntu5
<penguin42> ok, it should be installing 4.6.2-0ubuntu5.1 I think
<penguin42> right, bed
<Pr0ph3t> How long will I have to wait before I can use that 3G modem on Linux
<popey> AlanBell: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/09/marvell-powered-olpc-xo-1-75-only-draws-2-watts-of-power-finall/
<popey> looks familiar :)
<lazarus_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tajPROM8wk&feature=related awesome
<popey> lies
<popey> http://youtu.be/cLgu-NR3kQg <- ubuntu powered table computer.. that's awesome :)
<AlanBell> yeah, that is the 1.75, same case, different mobo
<czajkowski> Aloha folks
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski how are you on this fine sunday morning?
<czajkowski> MooDoo: grand kinda wishing my body learnt how to sleep more than 6 hrs though
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah i know that feeling well, and now i'm at work with coffee :S
<czajkowski> MooDoo: long weekend working
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yeah, it's my turn for working the weekend and next two weeks i'm on 3:30 - midnight :(
<czajkowski> oucies
<czajkowski> ouchies even
<MooDoo> ;)
<Laney> morning
<kvarley> On 10.10 while loading a game I get error "error while loading shared libraries: libstdc++.so.5". I think 10.10 has the .6 version, is there a way I can do a symbollic link?
<Laney> poor phineas :(
<popey> s/poor/timewasting lying troll/
<Laney> haha
 * Laney is learning the recorder!
<Laney> only 20 years too late
 * popey blocks his ears
<Laney> http://arta-recorder.org/ #quality
<czajkowski> flash back to primary scholl it was compulsory we learnt it
 * MooDoo has a flute, but hasn't picked it up in years
<pr0ph3t> hi all, how do I check whether I am running a specific driver or not?
<popey> driver for what?
<pr0ph3t> it's called asus_laptop
<pr0ph3t> it's for specific asus laptops hardware
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: which part of it?  screen?  hdd?  ports?
<pr0ph3t> MooDoo, wifi, wwan controls
<pr0ph3t> part of the driver should control the radio on off of my 3g card
<pr0ph3t> basically there is a file called wwan which either contains 1 for on, or 0 for off
<MooDoo> can't you try grepping for it in dmesg?
<livingdaylight> good mornning
<pr0ph3t> MooDoo, I could if I knew how to :P
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: get to a prompt and type dmesg | grep <something>   replace the something with what ever you want to look for, for example intel wireless you could put ipw
<MooDoo> other than that, not sure
<pr0ph3t> MooDoo, this is not the same as pipe is it? "Â¦"
<MooDoo> yes it's a pipe
<pr0ph3t> MooDoo, but this "Â¦" isn't a pipe
<livingdaylight> my volume control appears ot have disappeared from my panel?
<livingdaylight> I see the wireless icon ; date and time and username with logout options... but where is the volume control?
<popey> pr0ph3t: that is a pipe
<pr0ph3t> popey, it works different though, right?
<popey> oh, sorry
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: just use the one to the left of the Z key, on the backslash [depending on your keyboard]
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: my fault, it all looks the same to me :)
<pr0ph3t> doh
<pr0ph3t> no it's my fault I'm blind
<pr0ph3t> thanks
<popey> :)
<Andy_> Does anyone know how to set the gamma from boot in maverick? I have a thinkpad with an integrated intel card.
<Andy_> tried creating xorg.conf, it gets processed but gamma settings are ignored
<livingdaylight> searching in Add to panel I don't see a volume icon?
<livingdaylight> I don't know what happened to my volume control but it's disappeared from my panel AND i don't seem to be able to add a new applet from AddtoPanel either?
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: is this after a crash or does it happen when you reboot, or would a killall gnome-panel put it back when it restarts?
<Andy_> Volume is part of the indicator applet??
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: http://www.virtualhelp.me/linux/107-volume-controlicon-is-gone-ubuntu-1004
<livingdaylight> MooDoo, gonna try killall gnome-panel... but i noticed it yesterday and rebooting today hasn't fixed it
<livingdaylight> I"ve just been told to add the indicator applet
<livingdaylight> Andy_, sounds like it (no pun intended)
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: yeah the link i sent says install that if you've not got it installed
<livingdaylight> thanks guys... adding 'indicator' applet seems to have restsored volume controler on panel
<MooDoo> yay o/
<Andy_> :)
<livingdaylight> *scary moment! :P
<MooDoo> livingdaylight: lol :)
<pr0ph3t> ok this is the paste bin of syslog when I try to connect with my 3g modem, any ideas why it fails? http://pastebin.com/qHgFryt5
<pr0ph3t> that's just the part specific to the 3g connection actually
<pr0ph3t> not the whole file
<pr0ph3t> any help or suggestion would be much appreciated, I am running natty narwhal fully up to date
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: wouldn't have a clue i'm afraid, i've not even thought about natty yet
<pr0ph3t> MooDoo, I think it manages the connection in the same way as maverick does
<pr0ph3t> any ideas about the lines 12-13?
<MooDoo> non sorry
<pr0ph3t> so modem manager opens the device ttyUSB0, in an instant changes the status from disabled to enabling
<pr0ph3t> 4 seconds later it changes it to eanbling to disabled
<pr0ph3t> anabling*
<pr0ph3t> nooo
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: take a look at this, see if it helps at all - http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1531259
<pr0ph3t> enabling*
<MooDoo> yes i'm just looking in google :)
<pr0ph3t> MooDoo, I tried sakis3g as well
<jacobw> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
<Laney> really
<pr0ph3t> re all
<pr0ph3t> I think I found the problem
<jacobw> Table tennis players get very annoyed if you call it ping pong
<jacobw> Even more annoyed than RMS if you don't say GNU/Linux
<pr0ph3t> at boot I get the message "NetworkManager[578]: <info> WWAN now disabled by radio killswitch"
<pr0ph3t> so it is a NetworkManager bug, because it activates it and then disables it for no apparent reason
<pr0ph3t> I mean it happens everytime at boot, so it's not me pressing the wrong button or something
<pr0ph3t> package NetworkManager doesn't exist? what's it called then?
<pr0ph3t> is it network-manager?
<niall> Hi. I need Ubuntu to support my 6-port serial card. I modified /etc/grub.d/40_custom to add a boot option with some extra kernel options, "config_serial_8250_runtime_uarts=6   config_serial_nr_uarts=6" --- this did not change the listings in /dev, I still only see ttyS0 through ttyS3. Can anyone help? I have posted relevant info with appropriate omissions here: http://paste.ubuntu.com/552138/
<jenkins> anyone familiar with joomla? I am trying to create a website using a template which I have uploaded, installed and chosen it in Extensions > Template manager but when i visit the site ip (a local one) i don't get any webpage
<pr0ph3t> I filed a bug report, let's see the power of the open source community now :P
<AlanBell> bug number?
<pr0ph3t> AlanBell, bug #700627
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 700627 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Network Manager switches 3G modem radio off at boot" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700627
<AlanBell> does the wireless work in Windows?
<pr0ph3t> you suggested I should file it, yes I mention that in the bug report
<pr0ph3t> I tried to solve it myself
<pr0ph3t> but I've run out of ideas
<pr0ph3t> I mean it may well be that I didn't do something right, but I think it should be seamless the mobile broadband connection just like it is for other 3g modems
<pr0ph3t> I should probably check if the problem is the same in maverick right? or not?
<bigcalm> Hi Peeps
<Jibadeeha> just tried screenlets and once again i still cannot find a possible use for it
<popey> hi bigcalm
<popey> bigcalm: last weeks graze box arrived on friday then this weeks arrived yesterday
<bigcalm> popey: it's a bit of a joke. Maybe I'll give RM a little longer to settle before taking drastic action
<popey> i dont find it that bad
<popey> understandable over xmas
<bigcalm> Of course
<bigcalm> Post seems to have been the only disrupted service here
<pr0ph3t> do you know a nice guide to connect two devices with SSH in the same network safely?
<bigcalm> Could you be a little more specific?
<pr0ph3t> bigcalm, I have a nokia n97 with PuTTY and I want to connect to my laptop running ubuntu 11.04 64 bit
<bigcalm> So what's wrong with running sshd on the Ubuntu box and connecting to it from the phone?
<pr0ph3t> using the same wifi connection
<KrimZon> the wireless router or access point might need configuring to allow two wireless devices to talk to each other
<pr0ph3t> bigcalm, that it's not installed I guess, I'll try that thanks
<KrimZon> if it doesn't work straight away
<directhex> apt:openssh-server
<bigcalm> open-ssh-server
<bigcalm> --
<bigcalm> KrimZon: I would be shocked to find a wifi router that doesn't allow internal traffic by default
<pr0ph3t> ok I installed it
<KrimZon> bigcalm: i've had one or two that didn't, but only for wireless
<brobostigon> afternoonings all
<bigcalm> pr0ph3t: make sure the service is running and test it by ssh localhost
<pr0ph3t> bigcalm, working
<bigcalm> Good show
<bigcalm> Find out the ip address of the ubuntu box with ifconfig and then try connecting to it from your phone
<pr0ph3t> doing it right now
<pr0ph3t> but I get access denied
<MooDoo> pr0ph3t: sudo?
<pr0ph3t> trying to access the laptop from the phone
<MooDoo> ah
<MichealH> Hey all :D
<pr0ph3t> I need a password to connect to the laptop from my phone, is it the password I use to login or something I need to setup somewhere else?
<pr0ph3t> which password is it?
<dutchie> login password
<pr0ph3t> dutchie, do I need to create one for the new user?
<pr0ph3t> for the phone username I mean
<pr0ph3t> because if I use the laptop login password it doesn't connect
<pr0ph3t> access denied
<dutchie> you mean a separate user just for the phone to ssh to?
<pr0ph3t> yes
<dutchie> should be usual ubuntu username and password
<dutchie> you could create a separate user, but it wouldn't be much use
<pr0ph3t> so I need to change username
<pr0ph3t> on the phone
<dutchie> probably
<pr0ph3t> yes
<pr0ph3t> thanks
<pr0ph3t> this is great
<pr0ph3t> and can I send a command line to be executed on the laptop console?
<pr0ph3t> with like > or similar
<brobostigon> whats happened.peoplenot putting subjectlineswhen sending things to the mailing list.
<dutchie> pr0ph3t: what do you mean "on the laptop console"? you have a perfectly good shell with ssh
<Azelphur> hehe, been building my PC for a few days now :D
<Azelphur> fun fun \o/
<Azelphur> I run my changes through a power supply calculator and I need an 833w psu before overclocking >.<
<Azelphur> so I'm gonna fork out for a 1.2kw psu \o/
<marsilainen> need your own power station for that
<marsilainen> what takes all that power??
<marsilainen> I'm trying to get away with 350W on my new desktop :)
<Azelphur> marsilainen: haha
<Azelphur> marsilainen: i7 950 @ 3.06ghz, 3x4GB DDR3 1600Mhz, EVGA Superclocked GTX 570, 8800GT, 4 SATA2 10k rpm drives, 1 SSD, 10 USB devices
<marsilainen> fair enough :)
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I'm gonna pull it up on my 850w without the 8800GT
<marsilainen> whereas I shall be having 1 HDD and the graphics will be on the motherboard
<Azelphur> and see how fast it boots ;)
<marsilainen> do your lights dim when you turn it on?
<Azelphur> hahaha
<Azelphur> marsilainen: probably best to ask if my lights dim when I turn all this on http://game.azelphur.com/forum/official-post-your-rig-thread
<Azelphur> ;)
<marsilainen> don't think you need any lights on with that lot going
<Azelphur> indeed :D
<jacobw> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
<brobostigon> !moo
<jacobw> !fail
<bigcalm> !ding
<lubotu3> dong
<jacobw> Hmm, I've lost my connection to Jabber
<brobostigon> jacobw: any specific server ?
<jacobw> I've just got the domain field in Pidgin set to jabber.org
<jacobw> I suppose jabber.org is just one jabber server though
<brobostigon> cant confirm, dont use that server.
<Azelphur> hmm, I've tried 2 different livecds in my new pc, both of them show the ubuntu logo, drop to busybox and says "(initramfs) Unable to find a medium containing a live file system"
<Azelphur> any ideas?
<jacobw> Try a live USB?
<Azelphur> if I can find where my USB drive got to xD
<AlanBell> new CD drive?
<Azelphur> old DVD but was working last I checked :p
<pr0ph3t> can I execute commands to affect X on the server from an ssh client like putty on my phone? I.e. would be starting gedit, but on the server (my laptop)
<pr0ph3t> a nice guide you think I should read?
<dutchie> DISPLAY=:0 gedit
<dutchie> that should work
<pr0ph3t> dutchie: cannot open display
<dutchie> hmm, not something i'm familiar with, i'm afraid
<pr0ph3t> sorry
<pr0ph3t> you were right I'm an idiot
<pr0ph3t> thanks dutchie
<penguin42> as well as DISPLAY you may have to do something with Xauth, which on modern ubuntu can be messy
<pr0ph3t> penguin42, it works perfectly
<pr0ph3t> on ubuntu 11.04
<pr0ph3t> then it's a matter of controlling the keyboard
<pr0ph3t> to edit the file :P
<SilverGum> Hello I am trying to use wget command like this: "wget -r -v --level=0 -convert-links --page-requisites -domains http://tadamedia.com/MUSESITE/" But I am unable to download the images, CSS, JS or any other files except the index.html, could you please check and let me know, what I am doing wrong?
<pr0ph3t> SilverGum, first thing I think -rv instead of -r -v?
<SilverGum> Will that make a difference? But anyways, will try that
<pr0ph3t> SilverGum, no idea, but if you give the output maybe
<pr0ph3t> pastebin it, someone will have a look
<SilverGum> pr0ph3t: http://pastebin.com/hAaikUdX
<pr0ph3t> the output, as in the message you get from passing that command
<SilverGum> http://pastebin.com/tg89dfYG
<popey> no logging doesnt help
<SilverGum> popey: The weird thing is that I get this command to work for another site?
<popey> read the log
<popey> you'll see why it fails
<SilverGum> @all: I am a completely noob!
<popey> its because the site owner has maintained a robots.txt
<popey> which forbids what you're trying to do
<SilverGum> popey: Which one are you referring?
<popey> Not following http://tadamedia.com/MUSESITE/javascripts/jquery.easing.1.3.js because robots.txt forbids it.
<popey> all of them
<SilverGum> Can't we disregard the robotos.txt?
<popey> you can set wget to ignore robots.txt, but thats rude
<SilverGum> :)
<popey> I'm sure you can figure it out from the man page but I'm not about to help you do that
<SilverGum> Yes, I am a little too newbie, so I guess it is okay :)
<SilverGum> popey:  :) Will try to find that, thanks for that tip!
<SilverGum> Time to get 'rude' :)
<SilverGum> popey: I just read that it is a 'crime' to pose wget as a browser!
<SilverGum> ?
<SilverGum> I mean in certain countries of course, but don't you think it is lame, though I perfectly understand that we are being 'rude' by downloading like that!
<popey> SilverGum: I have a website and yeah, I'd be pretty annoyed if someone was wgetting the whole thing, its rude
<SilverGum> popey: I don't disagree about the 'rudeness', but its pretty lame to classifying that as a crime
<popey> i was not aware it was a crime
<SilverGum> In whatever jurisdiction you are talking about. But, ya, we are living in a paranoid world in which making an internation call could get you executed publicly ;)
<SilverGum> popey: Not in US
<popey> I am not in the USA
<brobostigon> i would be pretty pissed off if i found a copy of my website, out there somewhere,
<popey> brobostigon: its not that people take a copy to duplicate the site, more often they are just lazy and figure it's easier to grab an entire site rather than the individual files they 'need'
<brobostigon> popey: yes, i agree. i can imagine.
<SilverGum> Anyways, thanks everyone. wget did the job. It was pretty neat copy :)
<brobostigon>  http://code.google.com/p/moonblink/wiki/Tricorder :) cool,
<pr0ph3t> re all
<pr0ph3t> is it possible to use the keyboard on my putty client on the ssh server? the server is ubuntu and the client is my phone with putty and qwerty keyboard
<pr0ph3t> so that I use the phone as a wireless keyboard
<pr0ph3t> just like you set DISPLAY=:0 or something
<dutchie> don't know if you can do that with ssh
<dutchie> there are android apps that do it
<pr0ph3t> sadly I only have symbian os
<pr0ph3t> what protocol would they use?
<pr0ph3t> obex?
<niall> Hey guys. I've been trying all day to get my 6-port serial card to work. I've installed two different versions of the manufacturer supplied drivers, then the same drivers with a patch I found on the Ubuntu forum where someone else got it to work (With an older kernel). Ubuntu still boots with the 8250 serial support instead of using the manufacturer's module. I get /dev/ttyS[0-3] rather than ttyD[0-5] as hoped for. Also pa
<niall> ssed parameter 8250.nr_uarts=6 via GRUB2 and it makes no difference. Can anyone help me troubleshoot this problem? Unfortunately 8250 seems built into the current kernel (in 10.10) rather than as a module, so hard for me to override it.. not knowing how to do it. Happy to pastebin any and all info required. Please give any advice you think might help, however remote.
<dutchie> pr0ph3t: the one i've used pretends to be a bluetooth keyboard
<X3N> Anyone know why the ubuntu-uk launchpad team became a moderated team last week?
<czajkowski> X3N: ask Daviey ?
<X3N> hmm this is new: "The team subscription policy cannot be Open Team because one or more if its super teams are not open."
<gord> texas is cold :(
<czajkowski> X3N: is this the team or the ML ?
<czajkowski> gord: oh did you bring tea bags this time with you ?
<X3N> team, it's being inherited from one of the memeber teams
<czajkowski> hmmm
<gord> czajkowski, i didn't :(
<gord> i'm smart like that
<czajkowski> gord: you'd think you'd have learnt by now
 * czajkowski sips on her pg Tea :) 
 * MooDoo sips on his english breakfast tea :p
 * brobostigon sups onhis coffee
<czajkowski> gord: how long are you there for ?
<gord> just the week, not too long
<czajkowski> gord: ah not soo bad!
<czajkowski> large sprint ?
<gord> platform sprint
<daubers> gord: Ooooh... should we expect more unity goodness in the coming couple of weeks?
<czajkowski> gord: ahh so a busy one
<czajkowski> daubers: ELLO!
<daubers> czajkowski: o/
<gord> daubers, hopefully, holidays have slowed things down but things are picking up again
<daubers> gord: \o/ I'm quite excited about unity. Once it's complete and stable it might help a few of my workflow issues :)
 * AlanBell looks forward to ccsm not being crashy with unity
<gord> ccsm? works fine here
<gord> i'v seen it crash when starting plugins before, but thats not a unity issue
<Azelphur> hmm, I just installed Ubuntu on my new PC, It goes through the BIOS and then it just hangs at a black flashing cursor
<Azelphur> it runs live ok :S
<Azelphur> anyone? o.O
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: strange.. what kind of disk controller does it have?
<MartijnVdS> some on-board SATA thing?
<MartijnVdS> can you see it in the bios?
<MartijnVdS> on which port is it (number)
<Azelphur> yes, on board sata
<Azelphur> and yes I can see the HDD in the bios
<Azelphur> it's on port 3.
<Azelphur> correction, 4 :p
<Azelphur> lol system date 2002
<Azelphur> I should probably set up the bios properly, that might help
<MartijnVdS> and it's not even loading grub?
<Azelphur> nope, no grub no nothing.
<Azelphur> just a blinking cursor.
<MartijnVdS> wow :)
<Azelphur> still just sits there :(
<Azelphur> it boots from liveusb
<Azelphur> and all the data seems to be on the hdd
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you could try re-installing grub in the MBR
<MartijnVdS> that might work
<MartijnVdS> or check if the bios is EFI/UEFI, and use some EFI boot loader thing (don't know about those really)
<Azelphur> it may well be UEFI, it's very new equipment
<MartijnVdS> sandy bridge cpu?
<penguin42> Azelphur: 10.10 ?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope, i7 950
<Azelphur> penguin42: yes
<Azelphur> I'm trying a fresh install with only the SSD connected, so that way there can't be any issues with grub being on the wrong drive or other weirdness.
<Azelphur> it's aliiiive
<Azelphur> 2 second boot
<Azelphur> woo.
<Azelphur> excluding bios time
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<MartijnVdS> how many cores does that i7 have? :)
<Azelphur> 4 or 8 with hyperthreading
<MartijnVdS> cool
<Azelphur> lol just timed it
<Azelphur> 2 seconds seemed a little extreme
<Azelphur> 24 seconds from bios to grub, 14 seconds from grub to login
<daubers> Azelphur: What was the issue in the end?
<moreati> Any empathy users here: is the contact list showing yourself as an online contact?
<Azelphur> daubers: I dunno, I ripped all the other drives out and installed, it probably put grub on the wrong drive and it caused issues *shrug*
<daubers> Azelphur: Not had a drive in that had previously had grub on it?
<MooDoo> moreati: does the contact list show yourself as an online user??  no i don't think it does this
<Azelphur> yes I did have a drive that previously had grub on it
<daubers> That may have been it
<daubers> MBR may not have been cleared correctly on that drive
<Azelphur> maybe :)
<Azelphur> but yea, 14 second boot :D
<Azelphur> sweet.
<moreati> MooDoo: To be clearer: mine is, I'm trying to work out if this is normal
<MooDoo> moreati: strange, mine has never shown, then again i've never look at options to see if it's one
<marsilainen> how do I set the date format that ubuntu/gnome uses?
<marsilainen> all my dates show as 9/1/2011 or whatever
<marsilainen> I'd like them to show as 2011-01-09
<marsilainen> I thought that this would be in the preferences somewhere, but I can't seem to find it
<moreati> marsilainen: I've just looked myself, seems eiher a surprising ommission or I missed it
<moreati> marsilainen: do you want it changed everywhere, or just in the clock? if the former then http://choorucode.wordpress.com/2010/04/02/ubuntu-date-time-format-of-panel-clock/ looks promising
<marsilainen> moreati: ideally I would like to change it everywhere that short format date shows up
<marsilainen> moreati: so that it appears in ISO format in things like thunderbird too
<marsilainen> I think that maybe the way is to change my LC_TIME environment variable
<pr0ph3t> is there a command to show active ttys?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: ls /dev/tty* /dev/pty/* ?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: those exist.. but "active" in what way?
<pr0ph3t> hi there
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I am running putty on my nokia connected to my ubuntu workstation with wifi
<MartijnVdS> "tty's with logged-in people"? "w" or "who"
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, and I am trying to find a way to use the remote keyboard on the server
<MartijnVdS> why would you? just ssh into the machine and you can use it like you're sitting at it
<czajkowski> gord: will Unity work/be usable on a mini 9 ?
<MartijnVdS> you can't send keystrokes to other ttys (easily)
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, that is what I am doing
<MartijnVdS> done then
<pr0ph3t> but I want to use it as the actual keyboard
<pr0ph3t> so when I type something it doesn't go as a command but as a simple keystroke
<MartijnVdS> that's not possible
<MartijnVdS> unless it's X, but then you'd need to start a vnc server (and use a vnc client)
<moreati> pr0ph3t: why do you want to do that? What are you trying to achieve?
<MartijnVdS> moreati++
<pr0ph3t> moreati, to use the nokia keyboard as a wireless keyboard
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: is it bluetooth? just connect the bluetooth.. done!
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, it is bluetooth
<pr0ph3t> but it is the phone keyboard, it's an n97 phone with a qwerty keyboard
<moreati> 1) You have a Nokia gadget with a keyboard 2) You want a wireless keyboard
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: so you set your keyboard in "discoverable" mode, then connect to it (using the bluetooth icon on your desktop)
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> it's not a bluetooth keyboard
<pr0ph3t> not
<MartijnVdS> I don't think there's ready-made software to do this
<pr0ph3t> dutchie said there is for android
<moreati> I take it you concluded 3) I shall use the nokia as a keyboard
<dutchie> PRemoteDroid is the android app i have used
<moreati> pr0ph3t: I would suggest 3) buy a chepo wireless keyboard, save a lot of hassle
<pr0ph3t> moreati, it's just for fun I think, a challenge
<pr0ph3t> I have a wireless mouse and also I have a laptop
<MartijnVdS> you'll have to write/get some software to install on the nokia that uses the Nokia's bluetooth system to present itself as a bluetooth keyboard
<pr0ph3t> so I don't actually need it
<MartijnVdS> good luck with that :)
<moreati> MartijnVdS++
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, so bluetooth would be easier you think
<pr0ph3t> "easier"
<MartijnVdS> getting a bluetooth keyboard will be easier.. doing it over ssh will be Hard
<pr0ph3t> but what I thought in my rusty mind is that my nokia is acting a terminal, keyboard + monitor
<MartijnVdS> (because ssh daemon doesn't know about your X session at all)
<moreati> s/easier/the only possibility I can think of/
<popey> X3N: i would imagine Daviey might know?
<pr0ph3t> so my keystrokes are saved into a buffer, sent to the server, the command executed and then sent back to the terminal screen
<pr0ph3t> the output
<popey> X3N: i would also ask in #launchpad
<MartijnVdS> that's what ssh is
<pr0ph3t> yes
<pr0ph3t> but if I could capture the text sent to the server
<MartijnVdS> you can't
<MartijnVdS> well you could start a program in an ssh session
<MartijnVdS> but that program won't have a way to communicate with X
<MartijnVdS> you could create a way, but it'll be messy
<pr0ph3t> a bit like "Wake up Neo....."
<MartijnVdS> movies aren't real
<pr0ph3t> yes but you can replicate that
<pr0ph3t> with the client server idea
<MartijnVdS> I think you should try reading about the different ways in which input/output work in X and without X
<ali1234> use uinput
<MartijnVdS> then you'll understand it's harder than it seems
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: scary!
<ali1234> http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-input@vger.kernel.org/msg00063.html
<ali1234> it's actually trivial to do this
<ali1234> http://svn.navi.cx/misc/trunk/inputpipe/uinput/uinput.txt
<ali1234> http://codegrove.org/projects/python-uinput/
<MartijnVdS> that scares me more for security reasons than anything else
<MartijnVdS> how does X (for example) know it's a "faked" keystroke instead of a real one
<ali1234> it doesn't
<ali1234> thats why you have to be root to use uinput
<MartijnVdS> it's still scary :)
<pr0ph3t> ali1234, you heard of rinputd?
<pr0ph3t> !rinputd
<pr0ph3t> it's not in the stable repos
<ali1234> nope
<ducbian__> Isn't this what bluemote did / does?
<pr0ph3t> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RemoteInput/rinputd
<pr0ph3t> ducbian__, yes I think it is
<pr0ph3t> it looks like there are a lot of those applications around already
<pr0ph3t> http://tuxmobil.org/bluetooth_cell_apps.html
<AlanBell> X3N: is that because https://launchpad.net/~locoteams is a moderated team?
<AlanBell> that would be a superteam of ubuntu-uk
<AlanBell> and if that is the case then someone has introduced a bit of a launchpad fail to fix some other situation
<ipopey> Moo
<TheOpenSourcerer> Evening all
<ipopey> Hey TheOpenSourcerer, you on hols?
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer, are you there?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Lol - nope. On an OpenERP training course tomorrrow. Think I'd do Belgium for a HOLIDAY?
<ipopey> Heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: yES.
<AlanBell> nice hotel?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Very.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just been to the Hotel's "Grill" for dinner.
<penguin42> good chocolate?
<TheOpenSourcerer> More steak than you can shake a very large stick at.
<AlanBell> nom
<TheOpenSourcerer> penguin42: Don't know.
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: And they have d'agneau :-)
<AlanBell> ooh, lovely
<TheOpenSourcerer> The drive was very easy. And Google Navigation now caches.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Do the route 1hr before you leave home.
<ipopey> Blimey. You drove?
<TheOpenSourcerer> All the maps will be in the cache.
<TheOpenSourcerer> No data
<TheOpenSourcerer> Just don't go too far off-piste
<TheOpenSourcerer> ipopey: Yes.
<AlanBell> cool
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2hrs home to Eurotunnel.
<TheOpenSourcerer> 2hrs the other side.
<TheOpenSourcerer> About 5 in total.
<ipopey> Not bad
<TheOpenSourcerer> Quicker than flying...
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's door-door
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I didn't go above 90mph
<ipopey> Heh, not quicker than when I used to fly out there
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not too Namur...
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\too\to
<ipopey> Is is in Brussels?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://www.tanneurs.com/en/index.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> No
<ipopey> What area of Openerp is the course about?
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=openerp,+tiny&sll=51.187956,-0.812557&sspn=0.006859,0.021136&ie=UTF8&hq=openerp,+tiny&hnear=&radius=15000&ll=50.640317,4.86351&spn=0.111043,0.338173&z=12
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm on the "functional" course.
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Is on the Dev's course next week.
 * AlanBell is non-functional
<TheOpenSourcerer> oh dear...
<ipopey> Are the courses expensive?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Define "expensive"?
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's 5 days.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And we got two course seats for free for joining their partner programme.
<ipopey> Well, sap ones are something like 3600 for a week
<ipopey> Nice
<ipopey> Although my knowledge of sap course prices is dated
<TheOpenSourcerer> These are a bit less I think. The RRP is about â¬2750 IIRC.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Here we go. â¬2500: http://openerpfunctrain27.eventbrite.com/
<ipopey> Hmm, sap website not giving details
<ipopey> Interesting byo laptop
<TheOpenSourcerer> Yeah - they give you a VM.
<TheOpenSourcerer> OpenSource FTW!
<Azelphur> ipopey: 14 seconds from grub to login on my new machine :D
<Azelphur> with a stock 10.10 install
<TheOpenSourcerer> Am waiting to digest (slightly) 1/2tonne of Entrecote de Beouf before venturing out for a nightcap.
<ipopey> Sloooow!
<Azelphur> :o
<ipopey> ;)
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/January%202011/IMG_20110109_023737.jpg is also amusing
<Azelphur> they really need to put more space between pci-e slots.
<kvarley> is there  a torrent for 11.04 alpha 1, not getting a great speed from the server
<ipopey> Yes
<ipopey> Releases.ubuntu.com
<TheOpenSourcerer> 9pm and I think dinner has just subsided enough for a walk... Laterz all.
<bigcalm> web devs: TinyMCE or CKEditor or something else?
<czajkowski> evening folks
<dutchie> lo czajkowski
<pr0ph3t> hi all
 * AlanBell wavieys at Daviey o/ 
<shauno> hamitron: you were asking the other night about support lengths for server vs desktop packages.  did you find it?
<ali1234> i asked about that once and someone told me the answer
<ali1234> if you search the logs you might find it
<ali1234> i forgot what it is... but on some field in the package description it says 3Y, 5Y etc
<shauno> yeah, apt-cache show | grep ^Support.  it's slap-your-forehead obvious once you see it :)
<ali1234> ah here we go
<ali1234> yeah
<shauno> but he left before I came on that night :(
<hamitron> ty guys
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-02
<jutnux> Come on AdSense, validate my ad.
<RaycisCharles> jutnux: are you a lady of the night?
<jutnux> Yes.
<jutnux> 1.22am
<jutnux> \o/
<penguin42> well, bloody hell - it works!
<jutnux> Anyone alive?
 * hamitron yawns
<ali1234> raspberry pi limited edition boards are now on ebay
<ali1234> i got the email like 5 minutes ago and the bidding is already at Â£1000
<ali1234> oh, i guess they went up last night
<ali1234> email is just late :(
<jutnux> ali1234: I will not be buying one at that price ;-)
<khm> Debate between Christianity and Islam :(Is the Bible God's Word?) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlA22NNFlDw - E-mail:M4.Guest@Gmail.com
<mattt> odd
<jacobw> hmm
<jacobw> he posted that to each channel he was in
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> \o/ all tests successful
<brobostigon> :
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> can an app, ran in inside wine, use and or access a device connected to the usb?
<AlanBell> http://wiki.winehq.org/USB
<AlanBell> so maybe if you build it yourself, I doubt the version in Ubuntu has those patches
<brobostigon> thank you AlanBell
<brobostigon> i am using the version in debian.
<brobostigon> ok.
<AlanBell> all looks a bit experimental :)
<brobostigon> agreed :)
<AlanBell> czajkowski: danfish: did you manage to use the groupon voucher?
<jacobw> morning
 * popey sighs http://www.fernhilllinuxproject.com
<czajkowski> AlanBell: morning
<czajkowski> not looked at groupon
<czajkowski> have to go sprt that out this week
<AlanBell> ok, the voucher seems unuseable, I emailed their support about it
<czajkowski> what do you mean unuseable
<czajkowski> some you have to contact the organisaion first and give the code, some are different
<czajkowski> popey: not a nice windows logo :/
<AlanBell> czajkowski: the voucher is valid from 25/02/12 to 25/02/12 and you have to use it 7 days in advance of it's valid from date
<czajkowski> AlanBell: did you go to http://grouponbookings.co.uk/london-irish-rugby-club/
<czajkowski> hmm
<czajkowski> I'll wait till tomorrow and poke
<czajkowski> usually it's 2 days after you buy them they work
<czajkowski> and given it's been a bank holiday
<AlanBell> czajkowski: yes, and it didn't work
<AlanBell> I am sure it can be sorted, was just checking it wasn't just me being clueless
<hoover> hi folks, happy new year to all
<directhex> http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/finger/finger.pl?user=icculus&date=2012-01-02&time=03-11-15 is an interesting read.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye I'm sure it will be
<MartijnVdS> directhex: ooh, technical details about GL things â¥ :)
<Nafallo> hmm
 * Nafallo debates how much leave he'll need for the damn olympics
<MartijnVdS> Nafallo: ALL of it :)
<Nafallo> it kinda seems that way.
<Nafallo> all I had left after my already planned trips at least.
<MartijnVdS> I was planning on avoiding the UK this year because of the 'lympics
<Nafallo> 27th July until 12th August, and it's not likely wise to travel during them days either.
<Nafallo> will eeed padding days around it.
<danfish> AlanBell: not looked at it yet - job for tomorrow
<mattt> AlanBell: my fiancee mentioned something about that voucher too, i'll ask her for clarity today
<Ng> damn, I seem to have bought the wrong ram for my microserver
<Ng> either that or I bought the right RAM and it doesn't work. not quite sure how to tell ;)
<popey> what ram did you buy Ng ?
<popey> i recently bought some, we can compare
<Ng> popey: https://twitter.com/#!/cmsj/status/153853909155323905/photo/1
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/dmi.txt
<Ng> afaict it's the right speed, and it's Registered-ECC, so I was really expecting it to work, but the BIOS doesn't seem to do anything
<popey> Ng: http://www.ebuyer.com/172949-kingston-8gb-2x4gb-ddr3-1333mhz-i5-memory-kit-non-ecc-cl9-1-5v-kvr1333d3n9k2-8g
<Ng> hmm, perhaps buying Registered ram was the mistake
<Ng> popey: hey that's non-ECC. I thought the thing required ECC?
<popey> well mine works
<Ng> dammit!
<Ng> I spent nearly that much for 2*2GB ECC
<popey> alan@ubuntuserver:~$ dmesg | grep ECC
<popey> [    7.437157] EDAC amd64: This node reports that Memory ECC is currently disabled, set F3x44[22] (0000:00:18.3).
<popey> [    7.437171] EDAC amd64: ECC disabled in the BIOS or no ECC capability, module will not load.
<popey> [    7.437174]  Either enable ECC checking or force module loading by setting 'ecc_enable_override'.
<Ng> well fine :)
<Ng> ta
<Ng> at least that makes this a cheap mistake to fix ;)
<Ng> well, a mistake that's cheap to fix.
 * daubers has spent most of the day designing an enclosure for his nanode
<daubers> need to run up to the hackspace one evening this week and laser cut it
<Ng> popey: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Komputerbay-1333Mhz-10600-10666-9-9-9-25/dp/B003OSTDPI/ref=sr_1_3?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1325518038&sr=1-3 looks pretty similar, and is in line with my Prime bias ;)
<popey> haha
<jacobw> where did the recipes on ubuntu-uk.org go?
<AlanBell> http://ubuntu-uk.org/category/recipes/ got one to add?
<jacobw> well, i'm following a recipe to make lentil chilli, if it works i'll summarise it for our recipes page with the humain obtainable ingredients i'm using
<jacobw> human*
<popey> jacobw: i look forward to that
<Myrtti> mmmmm lentils
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daubers> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Evening all. Good start to the New Year... Just had two phone calls from my Local pub saying I've won in their draw :-) (twice) :-D. Better go and collect my winnings later then
<jacobw> awesome
<penguin42> TheOpenSourcerer: How long do you reckon it will take you to drink them?
<TheOpenSourcerer> penguin42: Dunno. Think it will be bottles of wine or something.
<jutnux> Evening lads / ladettes.
<jacobw> i think most people would reject both those labels
<jacobw> especially the latter :P
<jacobw> anyway, good evening :)
<danfish> evening all
<danfish> My guts have proclaimed Christmas and New Year's officially over
<danfish> My liver has decided to fly south for January :/
<danfish> only 360 days until we at start again!
 * mattt can't wait
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alan Pope] Migrating to a New Desktop PC - http://popey.com/blog/2012/01/02/migrating-to-a-new-desktop-pc/
<popey> 36
<popey> bah
<smittix> heh thats my main machines hostname too!
<mattt> so did anyone get those dang groupon rugby codes to work?
<DJones> Poor Wopr, retired.....
<TheOpenSourcerer> Any bikers? https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22251
<danfish> mattt: will try tomorrow
<mattt> danfish: k, let us know how you get on
<danfish> np
<smittix> Cops love my custom Bandit TheOpenSourcerer
<ali1234> where's that petition about automatically rejecting any petition that uses incorrect spelling or grammar?
<DJones> Damm. Why has nobody invented the bottomless jar of mustard
<AlanBell> there is always at least one more serving of mustard in the jar if you jiggle the knife about in it for long enough
<DJones> you've not seem a mustard jar after i've been at it
 * daubers really wonders about the ethics of the tv licencing agency some days
<daubers> Wonder if I they would still take me to court if I asked them to pay my costs when they're found to be wrong
<daubers> What they want from me = Â£120, what I'd force them to pay for wasting my time ~Â£5k
<daubers> total cost to the court system, probably >Â£10k
 * daubers ponders writing to his MP suggesting that the cuts center around the TV licencing agency. They seem to have too many bored lawyers
<Laney> they are going to take you to court?
<czajkowski> daubers: is the law the same as .ie for just having a tv you need a license regarless of watching broadcasting tv or not
<Laney> no
<daubers> Laney: They're threatening to take me to court. Not actually saying tey will
<Laney> oh, yeah, I've had those before. Just ignore them.
<daubers> Laney: They sent a letter saying that detector vans where in the area, then sent me this one saying that I ignored their previous letter, here is what I need to know for when they take me to court
<Laney> look for all the may, might, possibly, etc
<DJones> daubers: Have you told them you don't need a tv licence and the reasons why? We get letters like that at work & I just notify them of why we don't need on, and thats normally enough.  Ignoring the letters is a potential black hole though
<daubers> I'm tempted to send them a letter back saying that they've ignored my previous correspondance about not requiring a TV licence, here is what they may need to know if I decide to take them to court
<daubers> DJones: About 15 times
<Laney> they can't randomly take people to court
<DJones> daubers: In that case, I'd say let them take you court and instruct your solicitor to apply for damages/fee's so you're not out of pocket
<Laney> and AFAIK there is no evidence of detector vans being real
<daubers> Laney: The way these things are worded is tantamount to blackmail
<Laney> basically you should call their bluff, and watch as nothing happens
 * Laney gtg
<DJones> Plus Â£10K per letter/notification you've already sent,  for the inconvinience of replying that they've ignored
<daubers> tempted to throw together a little bot that will just fill in their web form 100,000 times to say that I don't need a TV licenec
<AlanBell> czajkowski: TV license is for live or nearly live TV
<AlanBell> or stuff that you record live
<daubers> (as your TV is watching it for you)
<daubers> Could really do with an electric monk around here
<daubers> Also there is no TV Licensing agency, it's run by Capita
<gordonjcp> daubers: I had one
<daubers> who tend to put words such as "selling" in their job ads
<gordonjcp> but the man from the monk shop said it needed a whole new motherboard
<daubers> gordonjcp: Been ages since I read that book
<gordonjcp> :-)
<ali1234> i concur that you should call their bluff
<ali1234> also detector vans aren't real, unless you count a normal van with a guy in it who looks through your window for a TV
<daubers> I'd also question whether they can take you to court when they only contact you as "The legal occupier"
<gordonjcp> ali1234: not now, but they did exist
<daubers> Surprised the vans weren't illegal under wiretapping laws
<gordonjcp> daubers: what wires would they be tapping?
<gordonjcp> afaik the last of them were scrapped about ten years ago
<mgdm> gordonjcp: what did they look for? The IF?
<gordonjcp> mgdm: scan coils
<gordonjcp> mgdm: if you have a CRT television you can find it pretty accurately by listening for the harmonics from the scan coils
<mgdm> ahh
<gordonjcp> tune basically anywhere on a longwave radio and you'll find a sharp null end-on with the aerial
<daubers> could put a foi request in to see if the numbers they're reporting are actually true or not
<daubers> Nice, they class everyone without a licence as an evader for the official statistics http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/about/foi-licences-facts-and-figures-AB18/
<daubers> Also intrigued by the fact that the number of people who don't renew their licence has been ignored under section 31 of the FoI act
<daubers> Not entirley sure why they would do that....
<mgdm> à² _à² 
<Semperfi30> Hello, I was wondering if someone could tell me where all of the boot configuration files are located in Ubuntu 11.10. I am rsyncing my website to a VDS and I need to exclude all boot related files and folders from the sync process.
<daubers> Semperfi30: Surely it'd be easier to just rsync the folders containing the website data rather than the whole thing with lots of exclusions?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Alistair McKinlay] Tech Predictions: 2012 - http://www.10people.co.uk/index.php/2012/01/predictions-2012/
<Semperfi30> @daubers sorry I went afk, that would be simpler but no ideal for my current situation.
<Semperfi30> not*
<Myrtti> ho-hum
<jutnux> Anyone got any blogs I can follow? :-D
 * jacobw plans to start blogging this year
 * jutnux just has
<jacobw> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o24eqIt7Jpo
<jacobw> jutnux: link?
<jutnux> jacobw: http://jutnux.co.uk/blog
<jacobw> cool :)
<jacobw> so you got that vps?
<jutnux> Indeed I did.
<jutnux> It is amazing.
<jacobw> :D
<jutnux> Are you hosted on bitfolk?
<jacobw> on bytemark
 * jutnux facepalms
<jutnux> Cntrl+W'd on the wrong app
 * hamitron would get a different provider, if he wasn't so tight
<jutnux> What provider do you use hamitron?
<hamitron> buyvm
<hamitron> but a vps is something I like and use, but never get around to using as much as I would like
<hamitron> :D
<jutnux> Definitely worth the Â£10
<gordonjcp> bitfolk ftw
<hamitron> per month or year?
<jutnux> month
<jacobw> social policy in the US is odd
<jacobw> i wonder whether any of the apparently insane candidates are just cynically winning votes and find criticism of their proposed policies amusing
<jutnux> *cough* Rick Perry *cough*
<Seeker`> anyone tried using boblight with vdpau?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-03
<czajkowski> aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o
<daubers> Morning
<daubers> So this is the year I get rid of 90% of my computing annoyances \o/
<daubers> First thing on the list, get a decent keyboard
<MartijnVdS> Decent as in not filled with crumbs and hairs? :P
<daubers> MartijnVdS: As in I may go the whole hog and get a Das Keyboard :)
<MartijnVdS> Scary :)
 * MartijnVdS is happy with his MS "Wired 600" keyboard
<MartijnVdS> it has a play/pause button!
<daubers> I've got an aluminium apple thing that's ok, but annoys me as it doesn't *click*
<MartijnVdS> mine doesn't click audibly
<daubers> :(
<MartijnVdS> but you can feel when it "takes"
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> and happy new year
<dwatkins> hiya folks
<dwatkins> It's so windy in Edinburgh, a lamp post has been blown over.
<MartijnVdS> One of them, or a lot of them?
<dwatkins> Just one, the police are blocking that lane on the roundabout.
<MartijnVdS> Scotland has roundaboutitis as well?
<dwatkins> Unfortunately the BBC 'jamcam' isn't pointing the right way to see it.
<dwatkins> Edinburgh bypass has many roundabouts, it's a long dual carriageway with sliproads.
<MartijnVdS> they're starting to replace every crossing with roundabouts around here as well
<MartijnVdS> We're at 80ish km/hr winds here atm
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://estofex.org/
<dwatkins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/travelnews/edinburghandeastscotland/trafficcameras/ - many roundabouts on the bypass to be seen here if you zoom in, I'm at the junction of the A720 and the A71 at about 9 o'clock on this map.
<dwatkins> yeah, it's pretty severe here.
<MartijnVdS> http://buienradar.nl/wb.aspx?soort=wind&tijd=0 is also cool
<dwatkins> I tend to use yr.no for weather news, it has a handy all-in-one graph: http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Edinburgh/hour_by_hour.html
<MartijnVdS> Ooh
<MartijnVdS> buienradar has something like that as well, but in a buggy layout
<dwatkins> The image is at a consistent URL by the look of it, so you could set the background or have a webpage which updated every hour or so.
<dwatkins> There's an Android app, but it's awful, sadly. I imagine a meta refresh tag in a piece of html would do much better
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: The image is a copy of the one issued by KNMI (Royal Dutch Meteorological Institute)
 * dwatkins goes to knock one up
<dwatkins> aha :)
<dwatkins> I used to support KNMI's cluster, they have a lot of compute power there.
<dwatkins> Looks like the police have moved the lamp post.
<MartijnVdS> but.. it might be powered! health! safety! :P
<dwatkins> indeed
<JamesTait> Good morning all, happy new year!
<occupy64k> Happy new year
<MooDoo> morning
<bigcalm> Is +39 Germany?
<dwatkins> nope
<dwatkins> +39 is Italy, note that you should include the zero with Italian numbers
<bigcalm> I'm unlikely to call it, just pondering an email from somebody wanting to use our services
<dwatkins> who needs a telephone when there's VoiP, anyway? ;-)
<gord> gord does! can't figure voip out
<dwatkins> (I'm joking because there isn't yet a VoiP service that's universal and easy to use that isn't owned by MS)
 * popey hugs voip
 * popey hugs his cisco 7940
<dwatkins> I like SIP, but there's no central repository, and no clear mechanism to call from one network to another that I'm aware of.
<occupy64k> GNU Free Call?
<daubers> dwatkins: The mechanism to call between networks is POTS :)
<dwatkins> daubers: oh, that's a shame
<dwatkins> I have a sipgate.co.uk account which has an incoming number in Reading, so my relatives can call me via a local number.
<daubers> Though some voip providers do have a mechanism to go voip -> voip
<popey> yeah, i have a sipgate number coming to my desk :D
<popey> and a voip number from work
<dwatkins> Skype is great in theory, but the whole supernode thing is a bit of a pain, and it's blocked in my office.
<dwatkins> popey: do you use the Tandberg software to make all your phones ring, too?
<gord> skype would be nice if the software was better, though i'd like google talk on my phone or something. have a data only simcard and do everything through that
<dwatkins> I wonder if google will bring Voice over to the UK someday soon
<gord> would be nice - or just make android -> android calls free or something ;)
<daubers> Can you nto do that with hangouts?
<daubers> or does that not work on android at the moment?
<AlanBell> it kind of works, but is video as well as audio
<AlanBell> and on speakerphone
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<dwatkins> I've not tried hangouts, sounds pretty good
<gord> well ideally, it would be nice if when i go to make a call, if it see's that someone has a gmail email address associated or something and notes they are online somehow, it just runs through gtalk. we have gtalk right? not the phone numbers, but the ability to talk through google somehow
<popey> dwatkins: no
<dwatkins> gord: precisely, if you could do that, it would be great
<MartijnVdS> gord: same with texting vs gtalk
<gord> does the messaging thing have non text integration on android yet? i've not really looked at ICS. i hate the messaging app on android
<stgraber> gord: n900 has that. Before I switched to my current Android phone I'd call or text someone and it'd ask me if I want to call them using phone/sip1/sip2/xmpp/skype and same for text
<MartijnVdS> gord: no :(
<stgraber> never could get the same kind of integration on Android ...
<MartijnVdS> The integration could be done easily, I think... but you'd have to cope with people who don't have Android phones but who do use gtalk on the desktop
<MartijnVdS> (and other exceptions)
<gord> thats fine, there are already messaging applications that do that, its just that if i want to IM someone i have to use one application, but to text them i have to use another
<stgraber> MartijnVdS: xmpp/gtalk has a flag saying "mobile" so you can already know if your contact is a phone or a computer
<MartijnVdS> stgraber: true
<daubers> So who hasn't seen emfcamp?
<jutnux> Me. What is it?
<bigcalm> What's that?
<daubers> http://www.emfcamp.org/ <- some people trying to organise something like CCC in the uk :)
<jutnux> Applied for it.
 * popey joins #ukhackcamp
<davmor2> morning all and a happy new year!
<gord> davmor2! morning, what date did you set for the work room thingy again?
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you go for the same resolution as me to annoy czajkowski more in 2012?
<jutnux> 1680x1050
<jutnux> ?
<Pendulum> davmor2: I see you go for resolutions you think you can attain
<davmor2> gord: 26th
<czajkowski> davmor2: *hugs* missed you too!!
<Pendulum> rather than the bog standard ones that no one manages for more than a month
<davmor2> Pendulum: I like to think I do :)
<gord> awesome, adding to the calender :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod I'm baaaaaaaaaccccccccckkkkkkkkkk!
<dwatkins> happy new year all :)
<jutnux> Happy new year ;-D
<davmor2> happy new year dwatkins jutnux
<mattt> morning morning
<MooDoo> morning
<jutnux> Morning
<daubers> Hmm.... power is fluctuatin madly
<MartijnVdS> Storm?
<daubers> Yup
<jutnux> Skyrim time \o/
 * MartijnVdS shoots an arrow at jutnux' knee
<gord> NO! no more of that
 * daubers goes to get lunch while the power is being weird
<gord> we left that behind in 2011
<oimon> just rebooted my desktop PC because it's the start of a new year. how gratuitous of me...only 69 days uptime
<MartijnVdS> gord: We did?
<jutnux> oimon: Do you just hibernate?
<oimon> jutnux: no, it's my work PC, i just leave it on all the time
<jutnux> Oh right
<oimon> feel bad cos it didn't need a reboot really
<jutnux> My alarm failed to go off this morning
<jutnux> Stupid Tune-In
<oimon> the wind kept me awake..no alarm req'd
<oimon> and i was excited to go back to work of course :)
<oimon> should i be able to suspend my home PC which has an nvidia card and the proprietary drivers as installed by ubuntu 11.10? doesn't suspend for me
<MartijnVdS> Proprietary drivers + suspend... I wish you luck :)
<oimon> yeah ..:(
<christel> it is seriously wet outside
<MartijnVdS> christel: also, seriously windy
<christel> (and in my porch, for some bizarre reason the wind is keeping my letter box open, which in turn is letting the rain in)
<MartijnVdS> Duct tape \o/
<oimon> porch
<christel> but then i'd never get your love letters :(
<popey> you need one of those brushes on the inside of the letter box slot
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Stylish-Letter-Box-Draught-Excluder/dp/B003D4YEQ6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1325592855&sr=8-1
<oimon> i have the brishes but not the internal flap
<christel> stylish even!
<christel> i have an internal flap, whethere there are brushes inside it i dont know -- i am scared of the letter box thingie
<oimon> the missis wants a porch though :(
<davmor2> Man I hate coming back to work after a holiday Tooooooo many emails
 * MartijnVdS has a flap with springs in it, so it won't open unless you REALLY try
<oimon> most of my emails were from bacula who never sleeps
<christel> i go all panick-y when people get stuck in it
<christel> errr, things, not people
<christel> because i never dare put my fingers in to pull stuff out
<MartijnVdS> christel: People? In your mailbox? :)
<christel> (we have post boxes back home in my country, thus i presume that the letter box is actually a monster mouth full of teeth!)
<christel> MartijnVdS: :P
<oimon> http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20111024023147AAK2hjs
<MartijnVdS> We actually have a government standard(!) dictating the minimum sizes: 265mm x 32mm and between 0.6m and 1.8m above the ground
<oimon> seen the raspberry pi auctions? they are doing well
<MartijnVdS> they're auctioning RPis?
<jutnux> How much are thye at the minute oimon?
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: Â£2k and Â£1k
<oimon> http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/raspberry_pi/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3686
<oimon> follow @raspberry_pi on tw*tter
<jutnux> Woah
<MartijnVdS> oimon: "twitter" isn't a family-unfriendly word afaik ;)
<oimon> i know the real reason the RPi is delayed...they spend all their time answering questions from numpties who won't read the FAQ
<MartijnVdS> oimon: but one of their blog posts pointed me to sugru. The family loved that christmas present :)
<oimon> this year i really want to move from twitter to g+ as most of my twitter people are probably RSSfeeds anyway
 * MartijnVdS G+es
<MartijnVdS> too bad nobody seems to read what I post there
<gord> twitter got a bit too noisy for me and i'm a bit too lazy to prune it
 * oimon adds MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<oimon> we should probably do a bit more g+ tarting in this irc
<gord> http://gordallott.com/+ ;)
 * oimon adds gord too
<bigcalm> http://cuth.eu/+ </band_waggon_jumping>
<gord> man, they really made html5 tags for everything
<MartijnVdS> <kitchen-sink/>
<oimon> hopefully now it won't just be popey filling up my g+ feed
<MartijnVdS> Yeah he's good at that :)
<MartijnVdS> Together with AlanBell
<AlanBell> I am not that verbose
<AlanBell> follow fab for that
<bigcalm> AlanBell: what happaned to the beard?!
<popey> heh
<oimon> fab scher? i unfgollowed him due to excessive trolling
<MartijnVdS> oimon: too bad it's not trolling :(
<AlanBell> bigcalm: a strong gust of wind blew it off
<daubers> If you suffer from low blood pressure, I suspect following fab may be medically advisable
<bigcalm> Did you use just for men? Your beard looked surprisingly dark compared to other visible hair... ;)
<AlanBell> my hair is all dark brown I will have you know
<popey> lies
<oimon> a beard changes the face shape enormously
<AlanBell> denial
<bigcalm> Hehe
<sammm> HazRPG: My hemmeroids are flaring up so badly and are so painful ATM. :(
<bigcalm> Bye
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> That's trolling
<oimon> must be a mental issue
<oimon> hmm gnome doesn't honour my preferred browser choice of chromium
<BigRedS> did you tell it in all three places?
<oimon> :(
<oimon> no
<oimon> just 2
<oimon> Â the AkashÂ â which is the worldâs cheapest tablet â has received 1.4 million pre-orders in just two weeks.Thatâs a rate of 100,000 customers for the $45 tablet every day and,Â according to Times of India, manufacturer Datawind is duly increasing its production capacity by opening three new factories to churn out more of the in-demand device.
<BigRedS> it's *opening factories* based on one product's sales
<BigRedS> blimey
<BigRedS> I can't remember all three places. I presume you've done Gnome's preferences and update-alternatives?
<BigRedS> oimon: ^
<jutnux> I want an Akash :-(
<popey> why?
<popey> 2009 - Viglen
<popey> 2010 - Joggler
<popey> 2011 - Microserver
<popey> 2012 - Akash ?
<daubers> Tandoori restaurant?
<oimon> what jutnux means is that he wants an expensive tablet but will settle for a cheapo one :)
<oimon> BigRedS: done all 3 now..now i'm thinking the issue is application specific i.e. hotot and couple of others
<TheOpenSourcerer> Happy New Year everyone.
<BigRedS> oimon: ah, what was the third?
<oimon> 2007 - asus eee pc
<oimon> 2008 - ?
<oimon> BigRedS: i checked in the actual browser prefs "i'm the default browser"
<BigRedS> ohhh
<jutnux> oimon: No :p, I just want to test it out ;)
<oimon> just received my vmware ice scraper :-\
<jutnux> my friend got an ebuyer one
<oimon> when you're a valued customer of ebuyer you know things are getting bad
<oimon> there's some good deals on unhealthy food right now in the shops
<dwatkins> aren't there always? ;)
<oimon> even better now that chrimstas is over and nobody wants to eat any more crisps and peanuts etc..except me
<jutnux> I do :|
<oimon> Desktop PCs and laptops using processors based on ARM Holdings Plc's architecture will account for 10 percent of total PCs by 2013, eroding demand for traditional processors using Intel Corp.'s chipsets, Morgan Stanley said Monday. The figure, which is higher than the 3.5 percent projected by International Data Corp. (IDC), will represent roughly 39 million PCs, excluding tablet computers, the U.S. investment bank said in a research note.
<dwatkins> does that mean I can get an Archimedes? ;)
<oimon> i'll sell you my A3000
<dwatkins> :)
<oimon> doesn't it have a weird vga port?
<dwatkins> I didn't think it was VGA, I thought it was fairly proprietary like the BBC Micro's RGB port.
<oimon> yeah
<jutnux> Why do i eat at my desk :'(
<jutnux> Now there are crums everywhere
<jutnux> crumbs
<dwatkins> crumbs!
<popey> Crumbs!
<oimon> my dad used to love saying crumbs and "stone the crows!"
<gord> you dear. need a bib.
<dwatkins> I often find myself using alternative words, e.g. "For fate's sake!"
<MooDoo> "frak" :()
 * dwatkins grins at MooDoo 
<oimon> anyone tried magic elves?
<dwatkins> Great show, that.
<oimon> chocolate with space dust inside
<dwatkins> Does something happen if you rub them together, oimon?
<dwatkins> We're all just stardust...
<oimon> or "popping candy" as the USians call it
<jutnux> popey: How is that Zoostorm PC working out for you?
<popey> pretty good
<popey> am on it right now
<popey> it's quite cheap.
<jutnux> Yeah I had a look
<jutnux> By the way did the guys at bitfolk give you your referral bonus or whatever the heck it is?
<popey> http://popey.com/~alan/zoostorm.html
<popey> thats lshw
<oimon> how cheap?
<jutnux> Quite
<oimon> my nephew wants a PC capable of minecraft server
<jutnux> oimon: http://www.ebuyer.com/251310-zoostorm-desktop-7873-1036
<popey> oimon: i run minecraft server on a revo
<oimon> 4gb ram?
<popey> 3.something
<oimon> yeah, my nephew has 2gb max allowed on his mobo.
<oimon> pc is otherwise okayish
<popey> how many people will connect to it?
<oimon> not many i don't reckon
<popey> 2GB should be fine
<zleap> chat later
<oimon> i would like to encourage him though as i would like him to start learning linux
<jutnux> How old is he?
<hamitron> afternoon peeps
<hamitron> :)
<oimon> 14/15
<MartijnVdS> oimon: so.. 0.933333
<oimon> ICT at school is poo, and is actually putting him off computers
<jutnux> Hello ham
<jutnux> oimon: Agreed. Stupid word processing :-(
<popey> oimon: http://codeyear.com/ get him on that?
<jutnux> I have to sit through it everyday.
<oimon> and he lives too far from me to go round and show him cool stuff
<oimon> i went round to fix his PC the other day, but for petrol costs i could have purchased a nvidia card from ebuyer for the same price
<oimon> PCIe graphics card had blown..stripes on screen even in bios
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Install a robot, help him remotely using the robot arm as your avatar/proxy
<MartijnVdS> oimon: THEN teach him how to make/control one of his own :)
<oimon> what's codeyear? any language in particular?
<jutnux> I think it is a web language
<jutnux> Don't know though
<popey> I think it starts with javascript
<hamitron> oimon, computers are like maths imo, apply them to something someone is already interested in, and they will get interested
<oimon> yeah...like getting minecraft server running
<oimon> he is too interested in skyrim etc right now
<hamitron> I was thinking, maybe music, cars or something
<hamitron> games tend to encourage people to windows ;)
<MartijnVdS> Computer games, distracting smart young people from coding since the 1970s ;)
<oimon> i played 10 hrs of zelda since christmas day, that's quite impressive since i have no free time
<hamitron> you "had" 10 hours until you loaded that game ;)
<oimon> popey 2012 - playbook
<popey> the what?
<oimon> http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/02/blackberry-playbook-fire-sale-android-market-access-hack/
<popey> I was being facecious âº
<oimon> still don't think people would buy the playbook if it was free
<jutnux> I wish companies didn't sell PCs with OSs on as it bumps up the price
<jutnux> and all I do is wipe it off and put Ubuntu on
<BigRedS> you can get them without OSs
<jutnux> I know but
<popey> zoostorm sell naked computers
<BigRedS> but the price isnt *that* much lower. Windows only costs ~Â£5 to the OEMs
<popey> although mine came with windows 7
<oimon> more like 35-50 BigRedS
<BigRedS> oimon: Oh, fair enough.
<oimon> or in my experience Â£64
<hamitron> windows is "free" once you take into account crapware?
<oimon> http://oimon.wordpress.com/2011/07/25/remove-windows-tax-before-purchase-save-64/
<jutnux> Either way it gets removed :P
<jutnux> System76 is quite cheap though
<hamitron> I sort of like an OS installed, to check everything is working though :)
<directhex> windows is subsidized. in some cases it's cheaper than free for the OEM
<hamitron> the MS tax on android devices annoys me more tbh
<oimon> grrrr
<smittix> Afternoon all
<hamitron> even though I don't use android, just don't like someone getting something for nothing
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> directhex: are you getting involved with eOS then?
<directhex> hamitron, agreed
<directhex> oimon, ?
<oimon> directhex: wrong person woops :)
<oimon> i'm really struggling to get back in the swing of things today after 3wks off
<popey> slacker!
<directhex> oimon, i've got a stack to get through
<directhex> can't afford to slack
<oimon> i finished a lot of tasks before the break so i have to work up the enthusiasm to find new ones that i'll enjoy
<oimon> all the outstanding stuff is drudgery and paperwork
<oimon> not v inspiring
<jutnux> Brb, going to do a practice exam paper.
 * daubers needs staff
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Hire some
<MartijnVdS> daubers: the economy could use the boost :P
<daubers> MartijnVdS: I'm trying too dammit!
<hamitron> grrrrr
<hamitron> first deliveries of the year, high speed winds and rain
 * hamitron shivers
<hamitron> oimon, paperwork actually seems rather appealing atm
<hamitron> :)
<MartijnVdS> it's raining so hard here, I can't see the next building.. about 150m away
<MartijnVdS> also, wind
<hamitron> not that bad here
<hamitron> but not great motorcycling weather still
<hamitron> ;)
<oimon> suns just popped out
<oimon> it's freezing in my office though
<hamitron> I'm gonna get set off
<hamitron> laters
<hamitron> o/
 * hamitron shivers some more
<samantha> hello ubuntu-uk :)
<samantha> happy new year
<samantha> and now the the please help me bit
<brobostigon> afternoonings samantha
<brobostigon> welcome.
<popey> my spidey-sense is tingling
<MartijnVdS> popey-sense
<MartijnVdS> *
<samantha> i am trying to debug a script, but my syslog is spammed with not enough space in MgmtRing, MgmtRingFullCount=15103705!
<samantha> can i disable logging for wifi? for a bit so i can debug my scripts?
<samantha> hey brobostigon , thanks for the welcome
<brobostigon> :)
<oimon> /etc/rsyslog.d has config files, or alternatively send your logging to a different file.
<samantha> good news oimon
<samantha> yay i fixed it, well i 'right-clicked' network manager doh! and disable wireless was an option
<samantha> omg tho :O the wireless log spam did suspend my cron jobs
<samantha> oh puddle, it wasnt that
<oimon> http://www.ie6countdown.com/ < over 25% of china are on ie6
<MartijnVdS> their loss
<oimon> although my touchpad running android is reporting an ipad ua string :)
<directhex> most of china is running pirated XP, hence all the IE6
<oimon> why would that restrict the browser version?
<MartijnVdS> Because MS doesn't allow updates on pirated XP
<oimon> oh
<samantha> i may have to get xp :(, cant watch lovefilm streams now because of sliverlight
<Darael> Tried moonlight?
<samantha> yes
<MartijnVdS> samantha: Why XP then? Win7 does silverlight too. And moonlight.
<samantha> drm is not part of moonlight
<Darael> Bah.
<samantha> xp is zippy MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> so is win7 on my machine :)
<samantha> but you can by xp for 27 pence :O
<samantha> *buy
<MartijnVdS> legally?
<Darael> Complain at lovefilm first, at least.
<MartijnVdS> MS will stop updates for it in 2014
<samantha> well i am sure its cheaper than win7
<samantha> i have done Darael
<samantha> and will continue to do so
<oimon> netflix are coming to uk i believe
<samantha> i heard its not getting revised on tnt MartijnVdS
<gord> samantha, happen to have an xbox360 or a ps3 anywhere? i watch all my lovefilm on my ps3. would just quit lovefilm if i didn't have that. not worth fussing about with windows just to watch a movie
<samantha> oh gord everyone tells me to buy an xbox
<gord> oh don't buy an xbox for it, that would be silly ;)
<davmor2> samantha: PS3 is better doubles as a blu-ray player too
<samantha> lol it would be but, for chatting and stuffs and my daughter tells me to get skyrim
<gord> i think ps3 is a nicer device to have, but you can get really basic xboxes for really cheep
<oimon> or just switch to an alternate film streaming service
<oimon> i can't remember the last film i watched
<Darael> I'm in favour of the PS3, although I've still not forgiven Sony for removing the Other OS option, especially after they said they wouldn't.
<davmor2> samantha: ps3 has skyrim too and there is a web browser for chat/twitter/facebook
<directhex> the ps3 user interface is still junk. but microsoft have been making the 360 steadily worse, so it's almost as bad now
<Darael> The PS3 /is/ the technically superior platform.
<oimon> xbox hardware seems duff
<samantha> as i havent had either, i am flumuxed, i hear you need to buy network access for xbox
<oimon> i hear of a lot of broken consoles
<davmor2> the only thing that erks me is that most games are still only 720p duh
<oimon> samantha: true, xbox live is a paid service
<samantha> poo
<directhex> oimon, that's pretty much a resolved issue
<samantha> so i should get a ps3
<directhex> davmor2, or less. on both consoles
<directhex> Darael, that's still not entirely true
<oimon> directhex:not the ring of death but some other faults.  my bro in law suffered a fail on the november update. MS replaced the console without admitting liability explicitly
<Darael> directhex: It was the last time I checked, which was, admittedly, quite some time ago.
 * jutnux got 31/A* on that mock \o/
<directhex> Darael, the ps3 hardware is unbalanced and hard to program effectively, which neuters the areas where it's better
<Darael> A fair point, actually.
 * oimon has a wii :-\
<MooDoo> oimon: me too :D
<oimon> MooDoo: got skyward sword?
<directhex> i've got a wii, a ps3 and a 360
<directhex> i'd say they all have their good points, but i'd be lying. the wii is a wii.
<jutnux> 360 \o/
<jutnux> The Wii is good for new years
<MooDoo> oimon: no not got many games really
<samantha> so, with the ps3 you dont need to buy anything like xboxlive to watch lovefilm?
<directhex> our party console is the ps3. all the singstars & guitar heroes etc
<directhex> samantha, no. you need to pay for lovefilm though obviously
<jutnux> I have Singstar on the Wii, I think.
<brobostigon> the closest i have to a games console, is my old sinclair spectrum.
<oimon> i don't have a flash tv either
<oimon> it's a CRT
<samantha> yes directhex thanks, i watched the girl who kicked the hornets nest, it was great then lovefilm sent an email saying linux will no longer be supported from 2012, booo!
<gord> davmor2, kinda funny, most games are actually way less than 720p, they run internally at 500->600p - we aren't much higher than the good old playstation days really ;)
<davmor2> gord: indeed which is shocking really when you know you have at least 720p minimum pretty much
<gord> davmor2, well, its just been too long since the hardware got bumped, can't do a lot with the kinda gpus they have
<samantha> xbox =$145, ps3=$180 and wii=$99, no pound symbol
<MartijnVdS> Â£
<samantha> MartijnVdS, show off :p
<MartijnVdS> samantha: I also have â¬ :)
<samantha> easy tiger!
<samantha> lol
<Darael> I've got an Indian Rupee sign somewhere, but I think I have to enable it.
<Darael> And since it's a reasonably recent addition to Unicode there's no guarantee it'd render.
<MartijnVdS> â¨ ?
<popey> golly, xbox is 180 odd on amazon
<samantha> i looked at game.co.uk popey
<bigcalm> Synergy won't send &pound; (and other chars). So I have a habbit of saying quid :)
<gord> huh, just noticed a little speaker icon next to my google search box, seems i can search by talking at google now
<MartijnVdS> you can, if you have amic
<gord> popey, they have a bunch of different versions of xbox, some much cheaper than others, but like you get a massive 4gb hard drive or something
<MartijnVdS> gord: Massive 4GB?
<gord> i was being sarcastic, ignore me
<MartijnVdS> as opposed to the massive 300GB one in the PS3 :)
<samantha> what monitor port is there on ps3? my display has analog and dvi
<gord> hdmi and composite
<Darael> Bah, the 60 gig was the best PS3.  Had an Emotion Engine in it, for full PS2 support, and stuff.  User-upgradeable HDD, too.
<samantha> oh
<gord> component even
<Darael> HDMI is the same format as DVI.
<Darael> One can get a simple adaptor that'll do the job, IIRC.
<gord> well no, not quite
<gord> if the monitor doesn't support the drm, you won't be able to play blurays
<Darael> Have to make separate arrangements for audio, though.
<Darael> Ah, yes.  That.  Bugrit.
<samantha> that sucks gord
<oimon> that's outrageous
<samantha> maybe with sopa pipa and now sliverlight i should boycott Hollywood all together
<oimon> and the fact that their films are lame
<gord> most monitors do support the hdmi drm to be honest, its just something to check
<samantha> when i installed moonlight my system informed me the software could access all files on my computer
<samantha> cheeky
<samantha> i guess sliverlight does the same
<Darael> Silverlight is Windows software, ergo it wraps its slimy fingers into the guts of the system.
<samantha> ew
<samantha> creepy
<Darael> (OK, that's not universally true, but it's true of the vast majority of software for Windows.  It has to, to run at all)
<Darael> ...I'm being unfair, aren't I?
<samantha> no
<samantha> its creepy
<samantha> you and me are considered criminal for buying a title/service
<oimon> can you go from hdmi -> dvi port on a monitor without losing quality?
<bigcalm> Yes
<oimon> (in general)
<bigcalm> The only thing you lose will be audio
<Darael> If the monitor supports the resolution, yes.  The image format is the same, sans the DRM.
<samantha> gotta go, take care and buh bye
<gord> its digital, losing "quality" isn't an issue ;)
<popey> every pixel is sacred
<bigcalm> Every pixel is gooooood
<Darael> Ev'ry pixel is needed
<MartijnVdS> Network neighborhood?
 * daubers gets the gnu
<bigcalm> Anny get your gnu?
<MartijnVdS> â« We all live in a Windows subroutine
<smittix> windows subroutine
<MartijnVdS> Or "Deadlock holiday".. or "Another cron bites the dust"
<smittix> heh
<Darael> Kill(1)er Queen?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Happy new year DUDE!
<bigcalm> davmor2: ahoy and HNY :)
<archie> re
<archie> anyone there
<daubers> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<archie> anyone there
<archie> PING!
<MooDoo> oh congrats AlanBell :)
<archie> hi
<popey> oimon: my nvidia-based machine suspends and wakes no problem
 * popey thinks 'hello' might have been a better response to archie there
<daubers> Probably
 * daubers isn't really with it
<daubers> popey: seen this? http://realtimerendering.com/erich/minecraft/public/mineways/
<oimon> popey: hmmm :(
<oimon> it suspend/waked ok when i had a different card in the pc
<oimon> (and nouveau drivers)
<oimon> what's the best gantt chart software for linux?
<gord> i don't think i have anything that doesn't suspend/wake okay anymore :) life is good
<popey> daubers: hah, awesome
<jutnux> There's a cheap 3d printer out there it works with too I think
<zleap> hello
<jutnux> 16gb memory stick for Â£8.99 \o/
<zleap> not bad
<bigcalm> 1) is it of good quality? 2) is it fast?
<jutnux> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00422DCB6
<bigcalm> The quality is there. Doesn't give any information on transfer speeds though
<jutnux> Some people have ran some tests and it's like 4mb/s write and 15mb/s read
<jutnux> Not too fast but it's only Â£8
<bigcalm> 9
 * jutnux hit the 8 instead of 9
<bigcalm> But still good for the money
<jutnux> and free postage
<Supermanintights> hey guys, if i've done a dualboot with ubuntu/windows - and my windows side seems to have just corrupted itself on boot - is it you guys, or ##windows i'm best speaking to for help?
<gord> Supermanintights, well technically ##windows, but who knows, maybe someone here can help too
<bigcalm> Supermanintights: try ##windows 1st
<bigcalm> But ask around
<Supermanintights> ok, cool - i'll ask over there, then if that fails, i'll come back to here - cheers :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://techcrunch.com/2012/01/03/the-swift-rise-and-sad-fall-of-the-asus-transformer-prime-android-tablet/
<oimon> asus are eejits
<popey> yup
<oimon> i really wanted one of those
<popey> they even did a OTA update on the transformer (non-prime) over xmas which made it harder to root
<oimon> but i wanted to own it
<oimon> asus have only a short time to turn this around
<popey> wow, that article is really overplaying it
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod!!!!!
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<davmor2> czajkowski: Ah I love you too :D
<davmor2> czajkowski: I've spent entire day whittling emails I hate first days back,  5328 â 300 or so important ones
<czajkowski> davmor2: new me no poking prodding kicking or stabbing
<czajkowski> lets see how long this lasts
<mgdm> I give it 24 hours
<davmor2> czajkowski: You did see my new years resolution right :D
<czajkowski> davmor2: yes dear
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'll be back on track with that tomorrow now I've played catch up ;)
<czajkowski> cannot wait
<davmor2> czajkowski: I put you resolution to the test ;)
<czajkowski> :)
<popey> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/o19jg/canonical_to_have_showing_at_ces_announcing/
<directhex> maybe they'll announce unity actually tracking window focus well enough that the menu bar you see at the top reflects the currently visible window?
<directhex> i am sick and tired of clicking the red X in unity, and having a window unrelated to what i was looking at get closed. especially when the closed window was playing audio
<popey> yeah, that's annoying
<faiob> hi body, good new year!
<faiob> There is peapel know, how to do for found the cron is start in my /var/log/auth.log ?
<dwatkins> I'm not sure I understand your question, faiob; would it be easier in another language, assuming English isn't your mother tongue?
<zleap> directhex, i agree with you on that one
<jutnux> Gotta say
<jutnux> Amazon has made it easy to buy music
<MartijnVdS> so has Ubuntu (One) ;)
<jutnux> I presume you get the .mp3
<davmor2> jutnux: Yeap, plus it is stored on you U1 account so can be added to any Ubuntu device plus android and ios too
<jutnux> Albums are a little bit more expensive in some cases though.
<jutnux> I think I'll alternate between the two
<christel> i need some alans please
<czajkowski> the U1 team is the 2nd most helpful on  IRC with issues and for feedback
 * popey stands to attention
<czajkowski> christel: talk to TheOpenSourcerer
 * popey flounces off
<davmor2> popey: run save yourself you fool
<christel> popey: apparently you may step down, czajkowski didn't specify which alan i needed!
<TheOpenSourcerer> hulo
<christel> hehe
<jutnux> czajkowski: Indeed. I guess U1 will be cheaper in some cases and amazon in others :-P
<czajkowski> I buy music on U1
<TheOpenSourcerer> wazzup christel
<czajkowski> gadgets on amazon
<jutnux> All I need
<jutnux> is education at home
<christel> TheOpenSourcerer: hai! i need some help -- i am trying to think of a 60th birthday present for my golfmad mother in law -- i was thinking one night incl. dinner and breakfast + two rounds of golf (montgomerie one day and twenty ten course the next) at celtic manor? would that be appreciated by a golfer?
<jutnux> and then I wouldn't ever need to go out again
<christel> or is it a daft present?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Wow! That sounds great.
<christel> (they live in bristol, so celtic manor seemed a good choice locationwise)
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd be delighted to have that.
<christel> superb!
<czajkowski> christel: send them to lahinch for a golfing weekend
<jutnux> It sounds good and I'm not in love with Golf.
<czajkowski> eat and drink all weekend
<czajkowski> fly into shannon
<czajkowski> :)
<christel> czajkowski: i did consider ireland actually
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'n being summoned for supper. Must dash.
<christel> enjoy!
<christel> :)
<christel> and thank you
<jacobw> evening
<daubers> Hmmm.. the "textbook" for my current OU course has a section devoted to canonical
<davmor2> daubers: what are you studying?
<daubers> davmor2: TU100 "My Digital Life" it's a bit simple, but needed for the CS degree
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is quite amazing: http://scaleofuniverse.com/
<daubers> this bit is about cloud computing
<davmor2> daubers: nice :)
<jacobw> i did M150 and T175 in their last presentations before TU100 took over
<jacobw> i should have done TU100 if any, M150 and T175 were boring.
<daubers> jacobw: As is tu100....
<daubers> sense is an awful language that is slow to work with and a bit too "colour by numbers" to be of any real teaching use except with under 10's
<jacobw> at least m150 had javascript, even if it was 'optional'
<jacobw> many of the students were unhappy about having to program, which is ridiculous, and the tutors were very happy to point out how optional the javascript part of the course was
<daubers> sigh
<jutnux> We got to do some "programming" at school
<jutnux> invalid HTML5
<jutnux> HTML4*
<davmor2> daubers: Yes but is is language agnostic enough to teach you programming/scripting basics that you can build on in really languages?  and also don't foget you don't know at what level the course is aimed at :)
<ali1234> degree level?
<jacobw> OU level 1 is not degree level
<jutnux> Open University?
<ali1234> what's the point of it then?
<daubers> davmor2: It's supposed to be university level 1. It's also really not that agnostic, since it works a bit like turtle did (i.e. pen down, move 10 blah blah)
<daubers> I'd love to find a graphical programming language that still works that way
<ali1234> opengl?
<jacobw> i came to the conclusion there was no point
<ali1234> (or just logo)
<davmor2> daubers: Yeah what I'm saying though is there is a difference between a graduate course and a course that earns you points so you can get on the graduate course and the level can be that of coming from no experience in programming at all if that makes sense
<jacobw> most of the other students on my course were middle aged and recently unemployed
<davmor2> daubers: so the question remains can it teach easily the idea of variables, loops, programming block layouts etc without being as specific as certian other languages need to be if that makes sense
<daubers> davmor2: Not really. There is no idea of typing in the variables at all
<smittix> Evening all, Does anyone know of a decent download manager that downloads files in chunks?
<jutnux> smittix: FatRat, jDownloader..
<ali1234> typing is not essential for a teaching language
<smittix> I use IDM in windows. Was looking for something similar.
<ali1234> it just gets in the way
<jutnux> My idea of learning is not like school learning
<jutnux> Classroms = bore
<jutnux> rooms
<davmor2> daubers: then it sucks and they should use python :D
<jacobw> everbody should use python :)
<jutnux> Indeed
<daubers> davmor2: :p Knowing about types is quite important even in non strongly typed languages like python
<smittix> jutnux: Thank's I will try FatRat. I didn't know jDownloader did segmentation/
<ali1234> no it isn't
<jutnux> smittix: I don't think it does haha
<daubers> I've seen several conversations on my course of "If I type in two and multiply it by 4 why doesn't it work"
<ali1234> that's a perfectly reasonable question
<jutnux> No it isn't
<AlanBell> twotwotwotwo is a reasonable answer
<jutnux> ^ Indeed.
<ali1234> python will give you that answer
<daubers> ali1234: It's not when you then have to use another programming language as an example as to what a variable type is
<ali1234> and it's an answer that makes it clear why what happened, happened
<daubers> and then get all the confused looks from the various other people who are now confused that programming isn't dropping coloured blocks on a screen
<AlanBell> "eight" is a really good answer, not sure if there is any language that would do that
<ali1234> you don't need to explain the concept of types to explain why 2 * "two" = "twotwo"
<jutnux> I find it hard explaining things
<jutnux> I don't know how teachers / instructors manage sometimes
<jacobw> the OU forums are dreadul
<daubers> ali1234: So you just go with the "It's magic" philosophy of not explaining why things ar ethe way they are?
<ali1234> nope
<daubers> "Thats an integer and that's a string" has automatically raised a question of types
<ali1234> yeah and that's a poor way of explaining it
<daubers> How would you explain it without invoking some description of a type
<ali1234> simply tell them that "two" and 2 are not equivalent
<daubers> To which they ask "why"
<ali1234> why?
<daubers> why are they not equivalent, 2 is the same as two in the english language
<ali1234> do they look the same?
<daubers> they have the same meaning
<ali1234> they have the same meaning *to a person*
<ali1234> a computer is not a person
<daubers> So why doesn't the computer understand that?
<ali1234> incidentally, if the person doesn't speak english, but is european, 2 and two don't have the same meaning
<ali1234> a computer is not a person. computers don't understand anything
<daubers> That's not a reason why
<ali1234> this is a much more valuable lesson than the difference between string and int
<daubers> You can also make variable overflow easy in sense
<daubers> As anything without a decimal is assumed to be an int
<daubers> Which has also raised the type question
<ali1234> well, sense sucks
<jacobw> are they trying avoid acknowledging the existance of types?
<ali1234> if you are going to make a dynamic typed language, at least make it promote rather than overflow
<ali1234> but again, we're talking absolute introduction to programming here
<ali1234> once they've understood the idea than computers don't have any undertsanding of the data they process then they are ready for things like types and bitwise logical operations
<ali1234> see, when you have an absolute beginner, a good answer raises more questions
 * daubers remembers getting marked down on his physics degree for saying an "int" was a type with the reason that "it's too small to be useful"
<ali1234> that way, they are learning without even realising it
<ali1234> incidentally, the very first "programming" course on my degree was conducted in assembly language
<ali1234> this is still a good place to start as it covers logic and control flow while making it painfully obvious that computers do not understand natural language
<jacobw> i'm not sure why people think computers do understand natural languages
<ali1234> because they are first taught high level languages that are very close to natural language, and don't understand what a compiler is doing
<jacobw> perl :p
<ali1234> perl is juts a horrible mess
 * jacobw agrees
<jacobw> worryingly, many of the applications i support are written in perl :|
<zleap> i thought perl was mainly for handling data
<jacobw> it can do anything really, and 'handling data' is kind of a broad spectrum
<ali1234> computers in general are for handling data
<ali1234> they literally can't do anything else
<zleap> good point
<Neoti_Laptop> hey ubuntu people... i'd like to find a list of all tv capture cards that are supported by ubuntu 10.10 mainly huappage cards?
<DJones> !hcl | Neoti_Laptop I think there should be something in the links here
<lubotu3> Neoti_Laptop I think there should be something in the links here: For lists of supported hardware on Ubuntu see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardwareSupport - To help debugging and improving hardware detection, see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingHardwareDetection
<Neoti_Laptop> Excellent thanks DJones
<czajkowski> popey: any idea who I poke re battery life on laptops with Ubuntu running on them ?
<DJones> Neoti_Laptop: Hopefully you found what you're looking for
<popey> czajkowski: wassup?
<czajkowski> popey: tosh should get 8hrs under windows, and is getting 4-5hrs under Ubuntu
<czajkowski> want the other 4-3 hrs :)
<popey> Good luck with that.
<czajkowski> indeed
<czajkowski> :/
<jutnux> czajkowski: Invest in one of these: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Ixm0GNatFqQ/TVrOsQ_5rwI/AAAAAAAAIQo/2-NxkeB5f3U/s1600/usb_laptop_self-charger_cable_500.jpg
<jacobw> shouldn't have to
<czajkowski> indeed
<jacobw> haha, i didn't click that link
<jacobw> its genius
<jutnux> :P
<czajkowski> plus the USB port that charges isn't near the power socket
<jutnux> Haha
<popey> czajkowski: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/PowerManagementPMUtils
<czajkowski> popey: did the kids enjoy Santa ?
<czajkowski> and have a good christmas?
<popey> Colin King is working on stuff, but I doubt it will ever give you the claimed 8 hours
<popey> did you test it under windows? did you actually get 8 hours?
<czajkowski> popey: thanks for the link.
<popey> yeah, they did
<popey> they are still off school, dont go back for a while
<jutnux> Your kids are lucky popey, I go back tomorrow :-(
<czajkowski> no after about 4hrs of dealing with J and dad muttering in the background while we were doing stuff, the battery level had barely moved
<czajkowski> gmb: post your fb comment on photoshoot to G+ so I can share there
<TheOpenSourcerer> Asus to release an unlocking tool for the prime bootloader: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2012/01/asus-to-unlock-transformer-primes-bootloader-update-to-android-4.ars
<jutnux> TheOpenSourcerer: Not much of a surprise as pretty much all purchasers were moaning about it.
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
<AlanBell> I would think pretty much all purchasers have *no clue* what a bootloader is
<AlanBell> however a noisy minority do, which is great
<TheOpenSourcerer> dunno AlanBell - It's quite a "geeky toy" if you ask me.
<TheOpenSourcerer> BTW The webos browser fails 100% to handle the POS interface
<monsterwizard> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIZoj3VWkKY
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-04
<Semperfi30> Hello I am trying to find out where all the boot files are located in ubuntu 11.10
<hamitron> boot files? /boot is a good place to start looking
<Supermanintights> anyone find it jerky when moving windows around?
<Supermanintights> like the computer starts lagging a tad?
<daubers> Morning
<DJones> Morning daubers
<MooDoo> hello all
 * daubers spends a day in django-land
<danfish> morning
<danfish> daubers: legoland sounds more fun ;)
<daubers> danfish: Less productive though
<popey> Morning.
<MooDoo> morninh
<christel> good moaning!
<MooDoo> moaning christel
<christel> heey MooDoo :D
<MooDoo> :D
<DJones> urgh, first day back in work, at least its only a 2 day week
<MooDoo> DJones: sucks doesn't it
<christel> i parsed 2 day as 2 hour
<christel> i wish it was a 2 hour week
<MooDoo> i wish i didn't have to work at all and could go photograph stuff
<christel> :)
<oimon> i have a blanket wrapped around me...at work :-\
<oimon> not really suitable working conditions
<christel> auchies, that sounds rather cold
<oimon> rather inclement conditions...
<MartijnVdS> oimon: health, safety?
<oimon> MartijnVdS: public sector: tick the boxes but actually don't care when there are real issues
<MartijnVdS> oimon: until Something BadÂ©Â® happens
<oimon> people generally don't do their work properly, then go off sick for prolonged periods
<oimon> i'm still looking for a decent MS project type app for linux - anyone recommend one?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: org-mode?
<oimon> to produce gantt charts
<MartijnVdS> http://orgmode.org/worg/code/latex/gantt.sty :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: If you can still get it try openproj (Java cross platform), or the recent(ish) fork of dotproject - web2project (php, collaborative).
<TheOpenSourcerer> openproj does (did) open .msp files too)
<oimon> TheOpenSourcerer: i'm trialling planner, openproj and ganttproject (latter 2 are java cross patform)
<AlanBell> morning all
<oimon> but i haven't come across anyone who's used them properly in office environment
<TheOpenSourcerer> oimon: OpenERP has a project management module too.
<AlanBell> anyone know what one should install on windows these days to do a reverse VNC connection to a computer running a grown up operating system?
<AlanBell> so on windows I want the user to be able to throw their screen to me so I can control it
<gord> does the built in screen sharing thing not run over vnc protocol?
<oimon> also i thought realvnc includes the option to run vnc-reverse built into it
<AlanBell> realvnc can do it, just not sure if that is the state of the art, or tightvnc?
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: I installed an app called TeamViewer to do that to a customer's windows desktop. Not quite what you want but it worked from here.
<AlanBell> isn't that tied to a website or something?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I think so yes.
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's free though, but not Free(tm)
<DJones> Isn't there also logmein which is tied to a website, I think, I think basic versions are free (ish) but multiple machines can cost
<oimon> skype also does screen sharing and hence gets through firewealls, however unsure if it allows "control"
<DJones> Although logmein does have a bit of a bad reputation because it seems to have been cloned and used by the antivirus scammers
<AlanBell> realvnc does the job, going with that now
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Windows VNC? TightVNC?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: RealVNC costs Â£Â£
<MartijnVdS> TightVNC is Free as in GPL
<AlanBell> no, realvnc is GPL
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: oh there's a "Free Edition" with fewer features
<AlanBell> only want one feature
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: but it doesn't work on Win7
<AlanBell> have just installed it on XP
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: OK, well, for future reference :) RealVNC + Win7 = Â£
<AlanBell> good to know
<AlanBell> can tightvnc do the "add client" thing and connect to a listening viewer?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I don't know. Never needed that feature myself
<MartijnVdS> ah: it works in WinXP but not Win7: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3341012&group_id=14067&atid=364067
<MartijnVdS> according to that bug
<MartijnVdS> http://www.tightvnc.com/winst.php -> search for "reverse connections"
<AlanBell> doesn't work from a script according to that bug, but looks like the gui version will do it
<danfish> AlanBell: try gitso - http://code.google.com/p/gitso/
<danfish> oops, but late :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
 * daubers will be laser cutting his nano case this evening \o/
<oimon> daubers: putting a tattoo on it?
<davmor2> Morning Funksters
<oimon> tattooing your tech is almost a big decision as putting an indelible ink on your body
<Laney> back in the office, where I forgot that tea tastes weird
<davmor2> czajkowski: Prod, proddity, prod, prod, prod, proddity prod
<Laney> stupid water heater thing
<Laney> they got a posh new one but nobody ever maintains it
<davmor2> Laney: new job for you then
<Laney> soon :P
<Laney> thesis to write first
<daubers> oimon: Meant nanode :)
<oimon> oh lol
<oimon> and cutting not etching
<daubers> yup
<daubers> took me forever to just design an enclosure. 3d cad stuff is hard :(
<oimon> this laser etching made me laugh http://i.imgur.com/uIx0n.jpg
<oimon> a bit overkill methinks
<danfish> daubers: what are you using for the case?
<daubers> danfish: 5mm ply (as it's cheap and readily available)
<daubers> Once I have the design down with that, might try acrylic
<danfish> ply looks good with lasery burny marks - like here http://openenergymonitor.org/emon/emonglcd
<daubers> yeah, shall have to see how it comes out :)
<czajkowski> davmor2: good morning
<davmor2> czajkowski: proddity, prod, tickle, how's life?
<czajkowski> good thanks and you ?
 * christel tickles czajkowski 
<czajkowski> hello darling
<christel> hey! how are tricks?
<czajkowski> sort out the golfing pressie ?
<christel> aye!
<christel> :d
<christel> er :D
<DJones> czajkowski: Is it Munster you support?
<czajkowski> DJones: you really need to ask that question?
<czajkowski> clearly I need to up the ranting :)
<oimon>  /ignore rugby
<DJones> Couldn't remember if it was or not, just noticed a tweet about Paul O'Connell signing a new contract till the end of 2013/14
<oimon> Microsoft has launched an attack on beleaguered electronics retailer Comet -- stating that the British chain pirated  94,000 copies of Vista and XP recovery discs. Comet, which was recently  sold off for Â£2 ($3), allegedly produced the copies at a factory in  Hampshire and bundled them with PCs sold at its stores. There's been no  official response from Comet yet, but we can't imagine Microsoft would  throw this sort of statement around lightly. 
<czajkowski> DJones: well done talk about MS instead of something other folks enjoy talking about
<czajkowski> DJones: aye and he's the new .ie captain for the 6 nations
<czajkowski> oimon: well done talk about MS instead of something other folks enjoy
<christel> haha
<czajkowski> lets copy n paste something about Ms instead
<occupy64k> These things would be an opportunity for some Linux PR
<oimon> it's related to linux
<occupy64k> Someone should contact Comet and suggest that they ship Linux instead
<occupy64k> Redhat, Canonical, etc
<zleap> occupy64k, i agree
<zleap> of course one of these companies should jump on this and work out a partnership with comet to supply linux pre-installed
<occupy64k> Treat these scandals as business opportunities for Linux
<zleap> well thus far no reply to my suggestion that the local charity in torquay promote open source software,  how do I construct an e-mail making things simple enoujgh but no so simple it implies I think the person at the other end is a illiterate idiot
<oimon> it's quite an allegation against comet though
<KrisDouglas> Hello, I'm having a problem with my network config in Ubuntu today
<KrisDouglas> Loading websites in any browser is taking an eternity, but on a VM on the same machine (windows guest) can load them absolutely fine.
<zleap> oimon, yeah
<BigRedS> anyone here well-versed in django/mod_wsgi?
<BigRedS> I want to change which Python binary it uses
<zleap> it would be a blow to MS if they either started shipping Linux or dumped windows boxes altogether and shipped macs only
<zleap> KrisDouglas, not sure,
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: in the config for mod_wsgi don't you have the option for setting the path to the python interpreter?
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: nope
<BigRedS> it's a compile-time option, but I'd rather not build it myself
<oimon> zleap: they don't mention win7 so it must be a historical action from when xp and vista were out
<oimon> i guess the claim is against the OEM licences?
<oimon> rather than the actual CD disk
<gordonjcp> BigRedS: symlink evilness?
<zleap> ah
<zleap> when did ms stop shipping recovery disks
<oimon> my sister's PC disk failed so she was left without a recovery disk, since no CD came with the machine
<BigRedS> gordonjcp: yeah, I was hoping for a more supported method :)
<BigRedS> Suppose it's worth a go
<oimon> if the allegation is simply against comet producing their own recovery disks, then that isn't pirating IMO
<zleap> you are meant to do this yourself from the images etc
<oimon> we had to install XP cos that was the only disk we had
<zleap> however some places create their own recovery cd's as it contains all the pre bundled software
<oimon> although the licence was for vista
<zleap> maybe people suggested this would be an opportunity for them to offer alternatives
<occupy64k> On approaching charities, it may be an idea to volunteer to help them transition to Linux.  Most charities are busy enough focussed on other things.
<BigRedS> bah, no I need a wsgi.so that points at the right place
<zleap> occupy64k, well they are based in one of the more deprivedf areas of torbay,   my suggested was they simply promote the open disc and ubuntu
<zleap> i need more people here in torbay to actually help me do that,  for when i get stuck and need help
<zleap> a few don't use ubuntu,  one hates unity  so won't help there,   which is fine if they want to promote ,mint as long as they support it
<gordonjcp> zleap: xubuntu?
<zleap> yeah
<occupy64k> The thing about Ubuntu is that you don't have to use Unity.  It's easy to install Gnome shell
<zleap> what i need is a few more people willing to help me just help people with ubuntu if needed
<occupy64k> You could form a local LUG
<BigRedS> bah. and mod_wsgi doens't want to Just Build (tm)
<zleap> there is a devon adn cornwall lug,  they hardly seem interested in anything tjhese days,  which is why my ubunt posters point people to ubuntu-uk etc
<zleap> at ;least we are active
<occupy64k> Keep the Ubuntu flag flying
<zleap> once there are enough local users,  who are willing to make an effort then we can perhaps meet up locally
<zleap> occupy64k, i am
<zleap> I can't fix everything and i find the ubuntu list and here very very helpful and being part of the community is what all this is about,  helping each other
<oimon> âComet has sought and received legal advice from leading counsel to  support its view that the production of recovery discs did not infringe  Microsoftâs intellectual property.
<occupy64k> Suggestion:  A google/openstreetmaps site which allows people to indicate that they're Linux users
<oimon> so this is just about recovery disks, not about counterfeit serialz
<zleap> i remember a lcoal computer shop got clouted a few years ago for a similar thing
<oimon> Comet firmly believes that it acted in the very best interests of its  customers.Â  It believes its customers had been adversely affected by the  decision to stop supplying recovery discs with each new Microsoft  Operating System based computer. Accordingly Comet is satisfied that it  has a good defence to the claim and will defend its position  vigorously.â
<zleap> occupy64k, there is a ubuntu map site, ubuntu counter,  linux counter
<occupy64k> Havn't seen it
<zleap> oimon, we need to back up comet and really suggest they put Linux on the shelves, from books,  to cd's  everything
<occupy64k> Agree
<zleap> can we suggest to alan he makes thast suggestion to MS
<zleap> i mean canonical
<christel> zleap: devon and cornwall lug was never all that active back when i lived in exeter either, i always assumed it was because it covered such a wide area :)
<occupy64k> If an Ubuntu PR team doesn't exist, one should be formed for these types of occasion
<zleap> christel, yeah that is one of the reasons
<zleap> but the website is hardly inspiring
<czajkowski> christel: surrey lug is
<christel> czajkowski: yeah, but surrey lug is a tad out of the way of torbay ;)
<czajkowski> christel: you're moving...
<christel> czajkowski: no -- i moved to surrey from devon tho, thus responding to him/her regarding devon & cornwall lug :)
<zleap> i think perhaps what is needed a torbay Ljinux user group,  we need to find people with the tech expertise to help run a mailing list etc
<AlanBell> occupy64k: zleap: there is a canonical PR department, but this is not really much of a direct opportunity
<zleap> hmm
<popey> meh, lugs are dead
<zleap> it just sounds an opportunity,
<christel> zleap: lug-wise tho, simon waters and tom stephenson are always keen to help out -- admittedly they are debianistas, but i suspect they'd do anything to help promote foss
<czajkowski> christel: ahh see making more sense now
<occupy64k> I'd treat it as a potential opportunity
<AlanBell> comet are alleged to have already done bad things, they will no doubt settle out of court with an agreement to pay some discounted amount, plus a contract to be locked in even tighter
<zleap> christel, i think its more time or lack of
<zleap> popey, are lugs dead, how is ubuntu-uk different to a lug except we are mainly ubuntu focussed but we still promote foss
<czajkowski> christel: I've met some interesting folks in the surrey lug :) but not so keen on their monthly meet ups, I prefer the social meet ups instead
<AlanBell> zleap: lugs are local county based groups
<BigRedS> ubuntu-uk is national, for a start
<czajkowski> BigRedS: ah but not all locos are country specific :)
<christel> czajkowski: yeah, i love a good pub lug meet, but i find the BaB things a tad droll
<christel> my lug when i lived in san diego was amazing
<czajkowski> christel: indeed as do I.
<zleap> well once there are a few people from torbay on the mailing list for the uk ubuntun list there is no reason why local meet ups can't be organised
<czajkowski> christel: we do seem to meet on a thursday a lot in london though as many of them work uo here
<christel> but it was so massive that there was something happening several times a week, from awesome talks, to installfests to social gatherings
<christel> we'd do like 2am pancake trips to dennys all the time
<AlanBell> zleap: which is exactly what the happy hour thing is all about
<zleap> yeah
<christel> which reminds me.. we need to go to the pub alans!
<AlanBell> we do
 * AlanBell wonders if anyone else (perhaps not even called Alan) can pop along to Farnham one evening
<oimon> are lugs dying a bit now that linux is not a clandestine club?
<occupy64k> I've never been to a lug, but that's only because I live in a rather remote area
<KrisDouglas> the LUG in wolves is always busy.
<oimon> KrisDouglas: what's their USP?
<oimon> does it revolve around beer?
<christel> i find beer goes very well with linux
<KrisDouglas> as in unique selling point? the fact they're all quite friendly, and to be honest, it's where Jono Bacon, Adam Sweet, Dave Morley e.t.c are from so it's quite "linuxy" round there.
<KrisDouglas> christel, alcohol and computers are never a good combination :P
<christel> hehe
<occupy64k> penguins congregate
<christel> ah, adam sweet
<christel> i love adam sweet
<KrisDouglas> christel, he was pretty hilarious on lugradio
<christel> yeah, he'sfunny
<christel> tho, he sent me a rather rude happy new year text, so i have to think of a new insult for him!
<zleap> i went to well attended lug meets in canada  2 part events,  1 part being a talk the other part social in the student bar
<christel> i wouldnt say that lugs are dead, but i suspect that the success will vary based on location, dynamics of the group, passion and engagement of those who volunteer to get stuff done
<christel> someone needs to take initiative and make stuff happen :)
<occupy64k> Yes
<zleap> i try to but can't on my own,  hence i made ubuntu posters etc
<occupy64k> It's a "doocracy"
<zleap> if we had a decent,  commuinity who areally wanted to do something we would probably get noticed in the South west and bring more IT stuff down here
<oimon> i'm sure you'll get a lot of interest in universities.
<oimon> exeter?
<zleap> yeah,  i may see if i can find someone to put some posters up for me
<zleap> once one person is part of things then the word spreads
<christel> pick a time and a place, get the word out -- see whop turns up and whether they'll be keen to help you blow some life back into d&c
<oimon> exeter uses linux quite heavily in the science faculty AFAIK
<zleap> christel, www,dcglug.org.uk  this is the state of the website,  the only person that seems to update stuf fis me
<oimon> might be a good focal point
<oimon> although  they may have their own society already?
<zleap> yeah,   good idea,  we could then perhaps get tallks on using LInux in science
<christel> zleap: *nod* -- email the list, hang up some fliers etc -- focus less on the poorly maintained website and more on reaching out to people, and gaining the attention of those perhaps not already on the ML :)
<zleap> don't people look at a website to get info on joining up though
<oimon> move the website to facebook/social media
<oimon> so that updates pop into people's feed rather than searching stuff out
<zleap> do people need to sign up to google+ to access a page
<occupy64k> Good idea - just don't confine yourself to Facebook
<occupy64k> I don't think they do
<zleap> ok
<popey> +1 on using facebook etc
<christel> yeah, facebook is good, and blog about it -- make sure your blog is in the ubuntu uk planet feed for example, that should allow you to catch the attention of some localish ubuntu/linux users
<popey> When I promote UUPC on facebook, we get new listeners
<zleap> i could add a dclug page to my website and link to the lug sign up page (mailman) from there, then give people a url like www.zleap.net/dclug.html
<zleap> i need to get back in touch with the local youth centre,  see if between us we can reach out to young people who are techies
<zleap> and perhaps using linuix or want to learn programming
<oimon> i generally wouldn't attend a lug, but i would attend a talk from somebody. so a good way to kick it off might be a talk
<zleap> I am keen to help,  and understand stuff,    with raspberry pi  it could change things
<oimon> certainly it's good idea to use popular memes such as R Pi to get interest
<zleap> oimon, yeah i have said on our lug I want to learn stuff,  even if it is basic networking stuff,   talks can be on basics or highly complex stuff
<occupy64k> I'm not particularly enthusiastic about raspberry pi.  There are plenty of low cost embedded computers out these.
<oimon> if i lived in the sticks i might attend a lug
<oimon> the only linux user in the village etc
<occupy64k> heh
<oimon> occupy64k: the point is that other people are interested so its a possible common ground
<zleap> when i was in canada i vistied hunts ville for the day,   doubled the linux user population for a few hours
<occupy64k> indeed, raspberry pi has had far more media coverage than any similar system
<zleap> oimon, and raspberry pi is cheap enough for young people to buy and form a community round
<occupy64k> and small enough for novel uses, wearables, etc
<davmor2> popey: this one is for you and the minecraft massive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgJHDPTN5gw
<zleap> if we can get collaboration, team work around programming it is good skills for later life too
<occupy64k> true
<zleap> perhaps then arrange talks from developers on stuff like this
<occupy64k> Hack your world
<zleap> i attended a talk by ibm in canada on software testing,  free morning,  free coffee, free muffins etc
<occupy64k> Free stuff is always a bonus
<zleap> there was a long table at the back with loads of muffins, bagles etc on
<zleap> meanwhile out side the window there was a movie being made
<zleap> vancouver this was
<zleap> as is said hopefully working along side youth services I can reach out to these young people as I know a few that use linux, there has to be more
<AlanBell> popey: how do you promote it on facebook?
<occupy64k> My guess is that there are many unknown Linux users out there
<zleap> exactly
<zleap> well there is no point me creating new groups when people can join existing groups so i could perhaps promote the ubuntu facebook group
 * AlanBell doesn't quite get facebook
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: it's like Google Plus, but blue
<AlanBell> yeah, and has my silly cousins talking on it
<AlanBell> and people liking odd statements and then you get comment threads full of fail from people I have never heard of and don't want to be friends with
<popey> AlanBell: i put it on the uupc page and we all +1 and reshare it
<zleap> AlanBell, exactly which is why for any intellegent stuff i use google+
<zleap> i did try and ask on facebook if anyone wanted to learn progamming,  there was a discussion with 1 lug member and interest from 1 person i know in Ohio
<AlanBell> I guess I don't really have many friends on facebook compared to some people
<zleap> you get drawn in to facebook
<AlanBell> I don't really want to introduce them to my family
<KrisDouglas> I just unfriend everyone who I don't want to listen to.
<zleap> as it ends up being the only way to communicate,  with people who fail to check e-mail
<AlanBell> I think the only way I could use facebook is if I unfriended all my relations
<zleap> or have two accounts
<zleap> i dropped a few hints a few times,   like posted about raspberry PI and put discuss on google+
<oimon> zleap: you know that joey from omgubuntu is from devon? could always get in touch to see if he wants to do a talk. then he could self-publicize it :)
<zleap> ok
<zleap> and Daviey is in devon too
<zleap> or was
<oimon> i would be too if my wife got her own way
<zleap> move to torbay and u can vist penguins at living coasts
<zleap> :D
<zleap> mind for the cost of geting in i can buy 4 of those penguin tux stress toys from amazon
<zleap> i am off,  to work,  will see what posters i can put up or if I can leave a few flyers in the news agent near where i work
<zleap> chat laters
<selinuxium> Wondering if anyone knows the URL the the Landscape client tries to connect to when using the Cloud service? I think a firewall is stopping connectivity.
<selinuxium> that the*
 * MartijnVdS points at popey 
<kvarley> I've installed LAMP via the tasksel package. It's configured the server to use /var/www as the sites path. Should I change this to a location in my home folder or just chmod the directory so I don't have to be root to create webpages there?
<bigcalm> kvarley: apache will run as www-data. So if you chmod/chown, be sure that www-data still has access to things
<oimon> it's good practice to use www-data group and add yourself to it
<MartijnVdS> also, suexec won't like you
<bigcalm> I wouldn't worry about suexec for now :)
<monster2323> I just brought a calculator
<KrisDouglas> brought or bought?
<oimon> maybe he brought it home from the shop from where he bought it
<KrisDouglas> hurr
<davmor2> monster2323: you know this thing you're typing on you know it has one built in ;)
<monster2323> bah
<bigcalm> alt+f2 calctool
<bigcalm> Though I'm sure your physical calculator does more than that simple one :)
<monster2323> of course
<oimon> alt-f2 oocalc
<monster2323> programmable
<monster2323> :D
<monster2323> sometimes it is nice
<monster2323> to leave the my computers
<monster2323> for a more simplier one
<oimon> my calculator can make phone calls
<oimon> i rarely use the phone feature though
<christel>     /13
<bigcalm> christel: unlucky :(
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: a /13 is quite a bit of IP space
<bigcalm> I never did get my head around the /8 /13 /etc thing
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: it's the number of bits in the netmask that are "1" :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: (those bits can only be consecutive, at the "front" of the number)
<bigcalm> Still don't understand :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you know numbers? :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you know binary?
<bigcalm> 123456789
<bigcalm> Yes
<czajkowski> ocado is flippin brilliant!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: A netmask like "255.255.255.0" means: 11111111.11111111.11111111.00000000
<bigcalm> Ok
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: so /24 -> 24 "1" bits at the front :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that's all :)
<bigcalm> Oh
<oimon> = /8 . /8 . /8 . 0
<MartijnVdS> oimon: don't confuse him
<bigcalm> :P
<calvin_> org.za
<oimon> just realised that it's possible to do gantt charts in latex
<oimon> sorted!
<MartijnVdS> oimon: I linked a LaTeX Gantt-thingy for org-mode earlier :)
 * oimon looks
<oimon> woops. i thought you were linking to org-mode emacs mode
<MartijnVdS> oimon: well it's supposed to be used with it
<MartijnVdS> oimon: but it should be adaptable
<KrisDouglas> I'm gonna throw this machine out of the window in a minute :)
<czajkowski> DJones: christel danfish there is also #rugbyrants for future rants set up
 * daubers ponders a nice mug of tea
<popey> YES!
<christel> teaaa.
<daubers> I have trial bags of PG Tips "The Fresh One" whatever that means
 * hamitron only uses Yorkshire Tea
<gord> ooh its tea time? agreed
<hamitron> 20 mins left for me
<davmor2> belvoir ginger beer ftw
<hamitron> well, 5 mins till it has to be made ofc
<hamitron> I also have 1 slice of victoria sponge left :D
<daubers> awh.... now I want cake too
<oimon> anyone know where i can buy this stuff in brick&mortar shop? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hazer-Baba-Turkish-Apple-250g/dp/B002O0PFCC
<hamitron> my town has a shop run by a dirty old man on a side street, he gets anything you want like that
<hamitron> maybe worth looking locally for somewhere like that
<hamitron> :)
<davmor2> czajkowski: have a hug
<hamitron> oimon, what it taste like?
<hamitron> apple juice?
<oimon> apple flavoured, but not the same way as hot apple juice
<oimon> it is granules that you add to hot water
<oimon> mmm
<directhex> whittards.
<hamitron> tea time anyway
<hamitron> :)
<directhex> http://www.whittard.co.uk/instant_tea/instant_tea_flavours/rb_turkish_apple_inst_tea.htm
<christel> :o
<christel> i could like that
<christel> since i dont drink real tea, only infusions
<oimon> directhex: i wondered who shopped in there :P
<DJones> I find Whittard fruit teas exceptionally sweet
<DJones> I get them every now & again, but everytime I drink it, I can feel it stripping the enamal off my teeth
<oimon> this isn't really infusion but a sugary drink...but it's nice
<gord> I infuse my tea with biscuits
<christel> oimon: hehe
<christel> see, normal tea still scares me
<christel> i've only been in the uk for 12 and a half years
<DJones> oimon: Whittards teas are probably liquid sugar with an occasional fruit flavour :)
<christel> :S
<oimon> tea is minging
<oimon> IMO
<oimon> i hate it more than most food/drinks
<gord> brought proper British tea to UDS once, some French people on my team wanted to try it, not sure they approved ;)
<christel> haha
<popey> ooo thanks for the reminder
<popey> need to take tea to the rally next week
<christel> czajkowski bought me some awesome weird teas once
<christel> like strawberry and cream flavour and stuff
<christel> they were lush
 * DJones drinks peach & passinfruit tea at the minute
<christel> i am having peppermint tea as we speak
<christel> with a generous dollop of honey
<gordonjcp> I need to buy tea
<DJones> christel: You'll like Whittards teas then if you're adding honey to sweeten it
<christel> oo perhaps i will try them :D
<DJones> Plenty of stores for you find one near you http://www.whittard.co.uk/locations
<DJones> Although forget it if you're north of glasgow & edinburgh
<oimon> i'm in east london. besides nandos there are no chain stores
<oimon> will have to send my missis on a foraging mission instead
<oimon> i probably have 5 turkish supermarkets on my doorstep but they are invisible if not on google :(
<christel> woop
<christel> i am not north of glasgow no ;)
<christel> mind, i do live in tinyville
<christel> i also suck at maps, because i tried to click where i live and it thinks i live in essex!
<DJones> Anybody know how long a balloon filled with helium will stay floating before it goes limp & loses its lighter than air effect
<popey> depends what the balloon is made of
<popey> rubber ones sink in under a day
<oimon> depends, we had some lasting a few weeks recently. however some bought from funfairs go within a day or two
<popey> metal ones slower
<DJones> Just your normal rubbery balloon
<oimon> According to Red Hat CEO Jim Whitehurst, the biggest commercial Linux vendor is planning on hiring at least 1,000 new employees in 2012--increasing the size of its staff by 24 percent.
<popey> not long, they're pourous
<DJones> I guess that means I don't blow them up until friday then
<gord> DJones, sounds like a question for stack exchange, you should be prepared for an answer with a lot of maths though ;)
<stuart> There was a darwin award to a chap who used party balloons on his deck chair, he had a air rifle to shooot the balloons in order to come down, but was afraid to use it as he went up several thousand feet.
<DJones> gord: There's enough maths involved already, have to set up for a joint 30th & 60th birthday party, question is, do I do double the number of 30'th balloons so that maths even out :)
<gord> *2 is apparently too much maths then? ;)
<DJones> After a day in work, definately, and certainly not without a calculator
<Pendulum> DJones: how much space do you have?
<DJones> Pendulum: No idea, all I know is that a rooms been hire that can take 150 people
<DJones> I could just leave the valve on the canister open in the room, might lead to a bit of hilarity :)
<oimon> and ultimately, mass death?
<directhex> don't waste helium, we need it for airships :<
<bigcalm> Is there a limit to the number of chars one can use for a mysql table column name?
<gord> ... that question is terrifying
<gord> stop writing novels for column names ;)
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> I just want to use: marketing_opt_out_3rd_party_companies
<bigcalm> I'll drop _companies
<directhex> i don't think bigcalm understands relational databases
<directhex> you use a random 8-character string for the column name
<directhex> then have a table called column_names
<directhex> with a random column names on the left, and a full-blown freeform text field on the right
<directhex> i@M A GENIUS
<oimon> not sure if joking or clever
<directhex> and that's why it's funny!
<directhex> one piece of your brain refuses to discard the idea as purely humour. there's a bit saying "it's retar... well it might work i guess... ARGH I'M A DEVIANT FOR CONSIDERING IT"
<oimon> http://memegenerator.net/instance/12859323
<gord> i think your just describing a project of mine when i was 13 directhex, please stop infringing on my intellectual property
 * bigcalm goes into hiding
<czajkowski> christel: ahh yes from joy of chai in dublin
<christel> :D
<czajkowski> hmmm memories
<czajkowski> mixed
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<christel> aw
 * christel hugs czajkowski 
<czajkowski> davmor2: heyyl my dear have a *hug*
 * czajkowski snuggles christel 
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Today: First Videocast Of 2012 - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/04/today-first-videocast-of-2012/
<davmor2> czajkowski: <stgraber> davmor2: congrats on being the ISO tester who submitted the most results ever (1723) I haven't done any iso testing for 2 years
<bigcalm> Can you love your job a little too much? ;)
<czajkowski> davmor2: well done
<davmor2> bigcalm: NO!
<DJones> bigcalm: The guy with the tasting job at the Guinness factory asks himself that every day
<stgraber> davmor2: you really need to start doing some again or you'll be second by the time we release the beta :)
<jutnux> http://sweetupndown.tumblr.com/post/15242399360/dear-customer-who-stuck-up-for-his-little-brother
<czajkowski> ;/c
<awilkins> I'm distraught at the evil inherent in the human spirit
<awilkins> I get back from holiday, and some naughty person has removed half the RAM from my desktop PC
<awilkins> Suspects include the ICT department and the teacup collector
<awilkins> It would be less annoying if I hadn't upgraded the RAM on the sly... they took one of the original 1GB modules plus one of my 2GB modules.
<awilkins> ICT claim they know nooothing
<popey> awilkins: do you have the box the ram came in? perhaps with the serial number on it?
<popey> unless of course someone took it home â¨
<awilkins> popey: I have the box, although not for the module that came with the PC
<awilkins> I have the remaining RAM module from the pair
<awilkins> Technically I suppose I'm not supposed to install additional hardware in my PC
<awilkins> It's not like I took anything out...
<jutnux> Is your PC on 24/7 awilkins?
<popey> i know plenty of people who have done that
<popey> because its too much effort to get IS to get more RAM
<jutnux> Woops
<awilkins> jutnux: Nope, I turn it off at night
<jutnux> spilt coffee everywhere
<awilkins> popey: Yeah, same reasoning
<jutnux> awilkins: Was going to say you could setup a webcam as a security camera and become a high tech ninja.
<awilkins> jutnux: Heh, I take the drive home at night
<popey> or run a cron job that runs lshw every hour
<awilkins> I suppose I could configure the WIndows on the box to do that though
<popey> you could look in event viewer, see when it was booted while you were away
<popey> and see who logged in
<jutnux> They wouldn't have to boot it to remove ram though would they?
<popey> no, but they might to see how much it had
<awilkins> popey: Oh, it wasn't booted ; I think ICT are an unlikely suspect
<jutnux> Ah right.
<popey> so someone just randomly opened your pc and took half the ram?
<awilkins> The reason I knew was because the first thing that happened when I started it up was the BIOS saying "The amount of RAM on this machine has changed, hit F1 to store new value"
<popey> also, I have known of this happen before, but on a large scale
<awilkins> I've not actually booted the OS since then
<awilkins> I suppose I could and look in the event log
<popey> I used to work for a company which was broken into at the weekend, and they took half the ram from every desktop in the building
<popey> I would
<awilkins> popey: Yeah, on the premise that people will just think ICT installed a new virus scanner that thrashes their drive and makes things super slow...
<jutnux> popey: That would be quite a task
<popey> they did it on a weekend
<popey> nobody about
<awilkins> Corporate PC builds have screwless cases
<popey> well, except the stupid security guard who let them in
<awilkins> And we've just had a lengthy christmas lull
<jutnux> Oh right.
<awilkins> Not heard anyone else complain though
<jutnux> Even if the cases weren't screwless they could probably do it semi quick
<awilkins> If it was ICT they should a) have asked first b) also complained about the non-standard DisplayPort adapter and USB hub and keyboard I have attached
<awilkins> Pah. It's annoying
<awilkins> Most of us have laptops in here
<awilkins> Right, I'm sodding off home
<jutnux> Adios amigo
<awilkins> Had to transfer all my dev work to my Windows laptop. It sucks in extremis. Slooooooooww
<directhex> stealing RAM is like stealing CDs. you'd make more per hour working at mcdonalds, with today's prices
<Azelphur> Building from src on a sempron 140, hellz yea.
 * Azelphur sets up camp
<Flashtek|mum> anyone available to bounce a question regarding wifi since upgrade to oneiric ?
<AlanBell> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<Flashtek|mum> PRO/Wireless 3945ABG [Golan] Network Connection - not performing 4 way handshake..
<Flashtek|mum> was working just fine before the upgrade
<daubers> Evening
<Flashtek|mum> o/
<Flashtek|mum> do I "need" to use WPA2 perchance ?
<Flashtek|mum> oh, it's WPA and WPA2..
<bigcalm> It's the preferred setting
<Flashtek|mum> on the same router..
<jacobw> where did you read 'not performing 4 way handshake' ?
<Flashtek|mum> jacobw: output of wpa_supplicant
<jacobw> ah, good :)
<bigcalm> Most device support it. Though sadly the Nintendo DS doesn't :(
<Flashtek|mum> good news.. i'm not using a DS
<bigcalm> :D
<jacobw> my nick appears blank in my irssi display
<jacobw> i seem to remember this happening before
<gord> 3ds does :D
<Flashtek|mum> any thoughts on making this f'ing thing work ?
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<Flashtek|mum> who was being abusive ?
<bigcalm> Just the use of language
<gordonjcp> jacobw: your nick is highlighted in your own window
<Flashtek|mum> bigcalm: f'ing.. as in flipping ??
<Flashtek|mum> :-P
<jacobw> overeaction
<AlanBell> bug 759051 maybe?
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 759051 in linux (Ubuntu) "Intel 3945ABG wifi can't connect at all if 802.11a and 802.11n are both available" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/759051
<czajkowski> Anyone coming to FOSDEM from here?
<bigcalm> czajkowski: are you paying? :)
<Flashtek|mum> AlanBell: not a router supporting N
<AlanBell> ok, not that then
<AlanBell> is it a laptop?
<Flashtek|mum> AlanBell: DG834G
<czajkowski> bigcalm: I am not :)
<Flashtek|mum> yes, it's a laptop
<Flashtek|mum> Fujitsu
<bigcalm> czajkowski: looks like I'll be staying at home then :(
<jutnux> Howdy all
<jacobw> http://i.imgur.com/5RR3b.png
<jacobw> hi jutnux
<AlanBell> Flashtek|mum: I am not seeing any other relevant bugs with useful information on them
<AlanBell> there are some you can have a look at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux?field.searchtext=3945ABG
<AlanBell> one thing that might be fun to try is a live CD of Precise to get a very recent kernel (it is an Alpha, but in pretty good shape)
<Flashtek|mum> AlanBell: alas no CD burner available here..
<Flashtek|mum> which is annoying, but i'll be up another day
<Flashtek|mum> at my mothers..
<Flashtek|mum> it's a good excuse to visit for another roast ;-)
<AlanBell> yum
<Flashtek|mum> ya
<AlanBell> my customers would get more on-site support if they provided roasts
<Flashtek|mum> my mum does..
<AlanBell> todays customer provided assorted fruits, which isn't really the same
<DJones> AlanBell: Are you ok for a pm?
<AlanBell> sure DJones
<jutnux> Fruit
<jutnux> baha
<AlanBell> London's foremost supplier of office daily fruit products
<AlanBell> order now to have your details entered on a Free Software CRM/ERP system http://www.fruitfuloffice.com/
<czajkowski> AlanBell: sweet congrats
<AlanBell> and if you get invoiced the wrong price it is probably my fault
<czajkowski> lol
<Flashtek|mum> hmm.. old kernel didn't make any difference.. however there is a stackload of updates needed..
<Flashtek|mum> shedload of segment violations..
 * Flashtek|mum sighs..
<Flashtek|mum> mothers eh ?
<gordonjcp> argh
<gordonjcp> pulseaudio strikes again
<gordonjcp> *one shot* at recording the last couple of passes of ARISSAT-1, and pulseaudio has eaten my sound
<AlanBell> oh noes
<MartijnVdS>  pulseaudio -k ?
<gordonjcp> bit late now
<gordonjcp> I have 20 minutes of silence :-/
<AlanBell> what were you recording? the burnup?
<czajkowski> anyone having skype issues lately. go to ring someone and it hangs, kill it and then restart and it works fine ?
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: the last couple of orbits
<ali1234> czajkowski: 64 bit? there's a bug in pulseaudio
<AlanBell> so what is the deal with skype under unity, there is no old-style panel icon and no indicator, if I close it then I can't get it back
<AlanBell> and can't start a new instance because it tells me it is already running, which it is
<DJones> AlanBell: http://askubuntu.com/questions/66579/where-are-my-tray-icons-in-the-unity-2d-panel
<ali1234> so here's a question: which d you think does more damage to the crediblity of linux: some guy nobody has ever heard of eating toe jam, or the fact that sound still doesn't work properly in 2012?
<AlanBell> DJones: looks like skype should be whitelisted by default
 * AlanBell uses 64 bit and has had no pulse audio problems for ages and ages
<ali1234> that's nice
<ali1234> for you
<czajkowski> ali1234: aye 64 bot
<czajkowski> *bit
<czajkowski> works other than that tbh
 * DJones concurs with AlanBell, no problems with 64 bit sound
<czajkowski> folks who've bought tickets for London shows, which are the best sites to use?
<AlanBell> I even do odd things like use a USB headset (hotplug soundcard) and usb plantronics communicator
<czajkowski> the folks are coming over in March and i need to find stuff for them to go and do
<ali1234> czajkowski: try this
<ali1234> edit /etc/pulse/defaults.pa
<ali1234> find the line that says: load-module module-udev-detect
<ali1234> change it to: load-module module-udev-detect tsched=0
<ali1234> that fixed all my problems with skype
<popey> there is a pulse issue in 64-bit here too
<ali1234> also you have to reboot afterwards i guess
<popey> it goes at double speed / is choppy
<ali1234> popey: ^ do that
<popey> so videos playback at double speed
<popey> oooo
<ali1234> oh wait, just 64 bit in general?
<ali1234> this is only for 32 bit binaries like skype running on 64 bit
<popey> bug 909419
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 909419 in pulseaudio (Ubuntu) "Choppy sound. Videos play double speed" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/909419
<ali1234> i guess you could try it
<popey> i will, thanks
<popey> once i reinstall pulse :D
<dwatkins_> wow, skype still works on linux?
<ali1234> i don't have any problems with properly open source programs
<czajkowski> ali1234: thanks
<ali1234> dwatkins_: sort of
<czajkowski> videos work fine
<popey> yeeah, it happens on everything
<popey> skype, totem, flash
<ali1234> ha
<czajkowski> just skype stalls for a moment and hangs restart and back to normal
<dwatkins_> I'm genuinely surprised, ali1234 - I expected they would have somehow stopped it from working by now :-/
<ali1234> "flash"
<popey> youtoob
<popey> anything, mplayer, the lot
<AlanBell> oooh I have tray icons back
<dwatkins_> what else do most people need flash for? ;)
<AlanBell> remmina has a tray icon too, cool
 * AlanBell wonders why indicators don't just expose tray icons
<popey> bah, reinstalled pulse, it works now
<popey> stupid pulse
<popey> bet it will break after a reboot
<MartijnVdS> popey: shake your fist while screaming "LENNART!!!"
<dwatkins_> I had similar issues with pulse a couple years back, popey :(
 * MartijnVdS plays with reaver (WPS h4x0ring tool) on a spare ap
<MartijnVdS> it's scary
<czajkowski> popey: you running O or P ?
<popey> P
<czajkowski> not seeing any jumping on any videos here on O
<zleap> hi all
<mattt> howzit howzit
<zleap> good thanks
<zleap> yourself ?
<mattt> pretty good thanks :)
<diplo> evening all
<zleap> hi
<DJones> I think my eardrums have just been popped, sitting in a room with 2 newcastle fans watching Sky sports
<jacobw> uh oh
<zleap> lol
<jutnux> Does anyone here use nginx with wordpress?
<jutnux> And don't ! ask me :P
<jacobw> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
 * jutnux shoots jacobw 
<popey> jacobw: omgubuntu does :D
<jacobw> s/jacobw/jutnux
<popey> him too
<Myrtti> hohum, powercut
<jutnux> Fixed it.
<popey> my lights have been flickering tonight
<jutnux> We scarcely get powercuts here
<jutnux> Need to redo the splash page of my homepage, any ideas anyone? Much appreciated :-)
<jutnux> At the moment I just have a fake terminal that doesn't even type anything, took me 2 minutes as I didn't have much time to do it.
<zleap> it seems to be quiet in here tonight
<popey> some of us are working :D
<Myrtti> I'm just enjoying my Harry Potter
<jutnux> Book or Film Myrtti ?
<ali1234> hmmmm
<zleap> ok
<Myrtti> films now that I've finished the books, was just looking at the extras of Chamber of Secrets on Bluray
<jutnux> Films are amazing but the books are better. How did you find them?
<ali1234> if you tell wipe to wipe a 400GB disk, it says it will take 12 weeks
<zleap> lol
<Myrtti> jutnux: books are marvellous, I'm not sure if I've seen other than the first one before
<ali1234> the quick mode takes 1 week
<zleap> ali1234, well start now and it should be done in time for 12.04 :)
<Myrtti> ali1234: how about shred?
<ali1234> shred is for files?
<jutnux> Myrtti: I've started reading the "Hunger Games".
<jutnux> Completely amazing.
<Myrtti> sorry, got a power cut again
<Myrtti> ali1234: for harddrives
<ali1234> shred seems a lot more sensible
<ali1234> should be done in about 3 hours
<Myrtti> this isn't fun anymore
<zleap> hi issyl0
<gord> upgraded to precice and am getting as good a battery life as i get in windows, fan isn't even spinning and the entire machine is cold, what a wonderful release precice will be :D
<bigcalm> Right, that's it
<gord> battery indicator says 10:37 in it now
<bigcalm> I'm buying an SSD for the laptop and Precise is going on it!
<bigcalm> But I will wait until pay day next week
<gord> waiting for pay day is so boring, roll the dice!
<bigcalm> ;)
<bigcalm> That's how I got into a spot of debt
<bigcalm> Now the only things that go on my credit card are diesel, bytemark and spotify
<bigcalm> SSD prices aren't coming down as quickly as I'd like them to
<bigcalm> Will 60gb be enough?
<gord> i run my desktop on a 60gb ssd, mostly eaten up by music
<bigcalm> I have a 60gb ssd in my desktop but it only has ubuntu on it
<bigcalm> Laptop needs to run win7 as well
<gord> windows like to eat hard drive space
<zleap> where ssd prices affected bythe japanese earthquake lilke hdd prices were
<zleap> gord not to mention bank balance
<zleap> where = were
<gord> this might be the creepiest thing i have seen in a good while http://inicons.com/
<bigcalm> Oh my
<gord> wonder if it comes with small plastic idevices for you to put in its hands
<bigcalm> Good photos
<bigcalm> popey: not the cuddliest of pups :)
<aquarius> I have a stupid hard drives question
<aquarius> if I take a hard drive from one laptop, it'll work in another one, right?
<bigcalm> Ready for a stupid answer? :)
<hamitron> maybe
<bigcalm> Modern machine? Should do
<hamitron> ;)
<aquarius> why might it not work?
<AlanBell> aquarius: yes, hardware detection is pretty good
<aquarius> (I am assuming they're the same physical size, here, of course :))
<bigcalm> Same interface?
<hamitron> and not ide
<mgdm> aquarius: it'll only not work if there's a fault. Or if the connector is wrong. :-)
<bigcalm> SATA not IDE?
<aquarius> pretty sure they'll both be ide
<mgdm> aquarius: if it's Linux, it even stands a fair chance of booting on different hardware
<aquarius> both fairly old laptops
<bigcalm> Ug
<bigcalm> Ah
<bigcalm> Still a standard size
<aquarius> mother in law has a screwed hdd
<aquarius> so I'm gonna pull the one from another laptop (which is fucked, but the HDD's OK) and put that in instead and then install ubuntu on it ;)
<mgdm> should be fine
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<mgdm> <-- been there, done that
<aquarius> but that assumes that, y'know, hard drives work
<aquarius> oops. cheers, bigcalm, forgot that :)
<bigcalm> No worries dude :)
<bigcalm> I forget which channel I'm in at times
<mgdm> aquarius: I gather you're in Scotland in April - see you there :-)
<aquarius> although honestly you have no idea what a terrible state the second laptop is in. It doesn't have a space bar, for example :P
<hamitron> may want to check power requirement too, if the laptops are very different
<aquarius> hamitron, aha, you see, this is the sort of thing I don't understand, which is why I'm asking the question
<aquarius> one's an HP and one's a Dell, if that helps :P
<aquarius> mgdm, I am indeed!
<mgdm> chances are it'll be OK
<hamitron> or you could just ignore me, and it will probably work anyway
<hamitron> like mgdm said
<hamitron> :)
<bigcalm> aquarius: you can but try :)
<aquarius> what's the worst that can happen?
<hamitron> meltdown
<aquarius> !
<aquarius> really>?
<hamitron> house fire
<bigcalm> You're not too attached to your eyebrows are you?
<hamitron> and that lights up the whole street
<aquarius> oi, don't wind me up. I don't know about this stuff. :)
<bigcalm> aquarius: best nip to the pub 1st I'd say
<bigcalm> aquarius: you're not in danger of anything silly happening
<aquarius> good, OK then :)
<bigcalm> Even if the power were wired up the wrong way (which it won't be, that's what standards are for), power supplies in laptops have fuses to prevent bad things
<mgdm> even better, take the laptops, screwdrivers, and a Ubuntu boot medium to the pub and do it there ;-)
 * hamitron was just been his usual "optimistic" self
<bigcalm> I agree with mgdm, it's the only way
 * aquarius laughs
<aquarius> my daughter's asleep upstairs. No pub for me!
<bigcalm> Shame
<bigcalm> And on that note, I think it's time to have a bottle of HPA :D
<hamitron> hpa?
<aquarius> nice blonde ale
<bigcalm> Hereford Pale Ale
 * hamitron prefers brunette
<bigcalm> It's what I opt for if I find it on tap
<bigcalm> Was given a case of 12 for xmas :D
<bigcalm> There are 5 left
<mgdm> nice
 * mgdm got a bottle of Highland Park, which is as yet unopened
<mgdm> this might change
<bigcalm> :)
 * hamitron has coffee
<hamitron> and cake
<aquarius> blimey, it's a bit late to start on whisky.
<mgdm> it's never too early/late for that.
<mgdm> (also I only want one ;-)
<aquarius> ah, right. I'm not good at having one, which is why I don't drink at home much :)
<hamitron> it isn't midnight yet, so early for all the late night social misfits that hang around here..... ;)
<bigcalm> aquarius: and this is why you are so much fun in the mornings after oggcamp et al ;)
<czajkowski> aquarius: areyou beering and dismanting harddrives, surely this is not  a wise combination
<aquarius> no beer, just hard drives
<czajkowski> aquarius: wise
<hamitron> sensible+boring
<hamitron> ;/
<aquarius> I'm operating on limited knowledge, here. Hardware is about sixty-three abstraction layers below what I do. Having a beer in the other hand is only gonna make things worse. :)
<czajkowski> aquarius: you're getting sensible in your old age
<czajkowski> aquarius: who triages  U1 bugs?
<aquarius> I know. It's a weakness. I shall make up for it next week.
<aquarius> czajkowski, rye or duanedesign or whoever gets there first
<czajkowski> aquarius: where you off to next week ?
<aquarius> CES
<czajkowski> fancy
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-05
<czajkowski> aquarius: daft Q when you purchase U1 music and download it to the music application you use, how can change that to store it locally ?
<aquarius> not sure I understand the question
<aquarius> it *is* stored locally
<ali1234> surely that depends which music app you use?
<czajkowski> as in my music folder I'd assumed to find my music, yet it;s not there I've to go to banshee to play the stuff I've bought
<aquarius> it's just stored in a different folder
<aquarius> look in .ubuntuone/Purchased from Ubuntu One
<czajkowski> where?
<czajkowski> I don't see that on machine
<czajkowski> hmm maybe I'm looking in the wrong place
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> there
<aquarius> in your home folder. You may need to turn on "show hidden files", because it's called .ubuntuone
<czajkowski> aye found via command line
<czajkowski> why the hell is it hidden
<czajkowski> :/
<aquarius> because the best way to play your music is through the music app, not by poking around in the file manager.
<czajkowski> not when I want to drag them onto my phone :)
 * AlanBell liberated stuff from there and put in music
<aquarius> drag them from Rhythmbox or Banshee to the file manager window showing your phone.
<aquarius> you do not need to dig around in the file manager to find the mp3 files. Trust me on this. :)
<czajkowski> and the bug I reported as well meant I was losing track of what music I had downloaded so was trying to keep an eye on what should and shouldnt be there
<aquarius> speaking purely for myself, I just put all my music in u1 and then use the music streaming app.
<aquarius> but that's me :)
<czajkowski> i've not had great sucess with the streaming app
<czajkowski> but that was on the hero
<czajkowski> I may try it again on this phone
<aquarius> should still work, although the hero's a bit old these days. (It was good; that's why I had one too. But it might struggle a bit with more modern apps.)
<aquarius> be worth trying again, I suggest
<czajkowski> yup
<aquarius> AlanBell, you can do that, indeed. You run a small risk of the music store losing track of whether you've bought a song and so downloading it again, though
<czajkowski> and if they fix my bug I reported I cna go back to downloading the rest of my purhcased music and stop bothering you :)
<AlanBell> aquarius: I bought one CD which I can't remember what it is, and that twisted sister song
<aquarius> :)
<aquarius> then not too big a worry. :)
<czajkowski> that;s what happened me I copied on one machine locally and deleted them by accident now I need to download them all again
<czajkowski> very timely
<aquarius> *pants*
<aquarius> the two laptops have incompatible drives
<aquarius> different connectors.
<aquarius> grargh. :(
<aquarius> the broken one is sata
<aquarius> my replacement is ide
<aquarius> :(
 * aquarius sobs
<hamitron> :/
<aquarius> somewhere around I have a disc caddy which has a 64GB SSD in it, which I'd donate to the cause if I could FIND IT
 * aquarius headbutts everything
<aquarius> anyone seen it?
<hamitron> I've seen a 64Gb SSD before
<hamitron> not sure it is the same one ;/
<aquarius> can't think where I'd have put it
<aquarius> well, that's not true; I can think of where I'd have put it, which is in my leads box, and it isn't there. Can't think of where *else* I'd have put it :(
<hamitron> spare hdd box?
<aquarius> who do I look like, Evelyn de Rothschildt? I don't have that many spare drives :)
<aquarius> there's the one in my old laptop, but I'm not sure I wanna give that up.
<hamitron> must admit, I don't have enough laptop hdd for a dedicated box either
<hamitron> just 2
<hamitron> :/
<czajkowski> spare one here in london aquarius but a bit far to travel at night
<aquarius> I can even tell you what colour the caddy is! where is it?? Stupid thing.
 * aquarius tries summoning it by telekinesis
<hamitron> is it black?
<aquarius> sort of a teal-y greenish-blue colour.
<hamitron> yuck :/
<aquarius> I've already tried that thing where you flop into a chair exhausted and then let your gaze idly drop to a place and lo, there it is. Didn't work.
<czajkowski> aquarius: knowing you, it's with your power adaptors and passport :)
 * aquarius chuckles.
<aquarius> In the search, I found 4 (four) power adaptors.
<aquarius> I know where the passport is :)
<czajkowski> 4
<czajkowski> good lord man
<aquarius> yeah, that goes along with the two already in my laptop bag ;)
<czajkowski> are they all USA or at least half EU
<czajkowski> special aq
<aquarius> three EU, two US/AU, one boxy thing that works everywhere
<czajkowski> and no hdd
<aquarius> this is what happens when you buy a new adaptor on every trip for two years
<aquarius> no hdd. grrrrrrrr
<aquarius> ok, so it's give back a non-working computer, or give up my really fast spare SSD which I don't want to do, or find the old SSD which I don't mind giving up but can't find.
<aquarius> my life is rubbish.
<czajkowski> aquarius: or wait till the mornign and do a maplan run and get one and yer sorted
<aquarius> yeah, but then I'm blowing out half my day with my daughter in order to ponce about with someone else's laptop, which I don't really wanna do :(
<aquarius> found a PCMCIA 10baseT wireless card, if anyone wants one
<czajkowski> Im sure niamh would understand given who it's for. You could show her how to put it in without breaking it :)
<pauljwells> Anybody help me booting 3.0 kernel on powerpc G5?
<czajkowski> aquarius: is it in a box in the spare room in the cubbord on the top shelf ?
<aquarius> nope
<aquarius> /!\ No results found for "where is my spare ssd".
<aquarius> even google is no help
<aquarius> "All the world's information". Yeah, right
<czajkowski> Google isn't helping me sleep either
<hamitron> pauljwells, linuxfromscratch docs may help
<czajkowski> aquarius: are you really sure you have a spare ssd and didnt' pawn it off to someone else ?
<aquarius> well.
<aquarius> the thought has occurred to me that it was on the Big List Of Stuff I Gave To Adam.
<aquarius> I don't *think* it was.
<czajkowski> aquarius: ring him
<aquarius> it's quarter to one in the morning!
<czajkowski> aquarius: you;re up, I'm up and others are, he;s a geek he's boud to be
<aquarius> ha! not sgned into chat. So, not awake. :)
<czajkowski> great logic there aquarius
<czajkowski> I'm totally amazed you dont know where your ssd is
 * hamitron is too tight to buy one to use, nevermind lose one
<czajkowski> hamitron: meet aquarius he loses lots of things and then finds them at the wrong time
<hamitron> hehe :)
<czajkowski> gah I can hear bf sleeping wtf cant I sleep
<hamitron> doesn't help, typing on IRC tbh
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> although , we ofc love you to be here ;D
<czajkowski> hes in bed I'm in the tv room
<czajkowski> hamitron: thanks!
<hamitron> I wonder why geeks stay up late?
<hamitron> :/
<czajkowski> I'm crap at sleeping
<hamitron> I'm fairly good at it tbh, just not at the right times :/
 * czajkowski imagines aquarius from the lack of noise running around the house pulling bags and boxes out looking for his ssd 
<aquarius> dead on right.
<hamitron> hehe
<czajkowski> whats wore is I can almost hear the swearing from here
<czajkowski> and scratching his head and looking for a cig
<czajkowski> *worse
<aquarius> ok, now officially annoyed.
<aquarius> I may have to just flounce off to bed in a huff, I think. Grr. Perhaps it'll turn up tomorrow.
<aquarius> ttfn, all.
<hamitron> o/
<czajkowski> aquarius: toodles
<czajkowski> bet it comes to him in the middle of the night
<czajkowski> and then remembers where it is
<directhex> maybe he left it in a dodgy birmingham bar as he left in disgust, for the crime of playing "mr brightside" at him
<Azelphur> can you not buy ksplice any more?
<AlanBell> morning all
<shauno> morning
<shauno> after a week in the UK, I can confirm real ales are alive and kicking in the north east, and geordies might actually be in the running for the friendliest people on earth.  fun week
<DJones> Morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning all - nice roundup of whats new in kernel 3.2 -: http://www.h-online.com/open/features/What-s-new-in-Linux-3-2-1400680.html
<daubers> \o/
<mattt> morning morning
<daubers> achievment unlocked: Made the estate agents panic
<mattt> daubers: how so?
<czajkowski> daubers: heh how so ?
<daubers> mattt: Landlord let himself in again yesterday and left the door unlocked. So rang the agents today and asked for a copy of either the court order or a description of the emergency for which he let himself in with
<daubers> No notice == no acces
<mattt> yeah, gotta give 24 hours notice or some crap right?
<daubers> Yup, unless in an emergency or unless they have a court order granting them access
<mattt> daubers: did you land your place in newbury?
<daubers> mattt: No :(
<mattt> :(
<daubers> mattt: Turns out the area is like a demiliterised zone
<mattt> what do you mean?
<MartijnVdS> Demilitarized is good. No tanks roaming the streets, etc. :P
<daubers> The area that house was in had a lot of a reputation when we asked around
<DJones> daubers: You make it sound like Tripoli
<MartijnVdS> DJones: Newbury, Tripoli. Easy typo to make
<mattt> :)
<czajkowski> daubers: interesting in my old place in aldershot landlord used to come and go as he pleased one day he let himself in to use the internet, his reasons were house was still being set up (not really) and we leased rooms not the entire house but yet he was in our communal area
<mattt> i've had my apartment for 2.5 years now, never seen the landlord once since we moved in
<mattt> maybe he's been sneaking in behind my back :P
<daubers> czajkowski: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_family/home_and_neighbourhood_index_ew/renting_a_home_index_ew/common_problems_with_renting.htm#The_landlords_rights_of_entry
<mattt> daubers: familiar w/ purley?  we've put an offer on a place there ...
<daubers> mattt: Purley is supposed to be quite nice
<czajkowski> daubers: aye I did look it at the time, but again we leased rooms not a house.
<czajkowski> I recognise that name as a train stop I pass on the way to caterham
<mattt> daubers: i hope so ... made sure the house is outside of any flooding area :)
<daubers> czajkowski: In that scenario I'd check your contract and ask at the cab
<czajkowski> daubers: tis cool I dont live there any more and he as within his rights
<daubers> mattt: I've driven through there a couple of times. Seem's nice and quiet
<mattt> this site is brilliant if you're looking for a place to live: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/default.aspx
<daubers> czajkowski: I've been tempted to ring the agents a couple of times after he's done it and say "We got home today, noticed the landlord had let himself in again and the TV is missing...."
<mattt> daubers: lol
<czajkowski> daubers: what has the agent said to you regarding him letting himself in ?
<daubers> czajkowski: He's not allowed to. They agree and weren't surprised when I told them I'd just ring the police next time he did on the last occasion he did, which is why I've asked for the documentation this time
<czajkowski> hmm very odd they didnt ring him and warn him
<czajkowski> and more daft of him to then do so again
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: he might not care
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: or think it's "just a threat"
<daubers> Last time he did it he covered half our stuff with paint and I ripped into them
<czajkowski> unless as one of my mates landlord said, it's still his property and he's entitled to check on things
<daubers> czajkowski: He's not
<daubers> He has to give 24 hours notice
<czajkowski> daubers: I appreciate he has to,  I do. but ....
<daubers> If he supplies 24 hours notice in writing, we can't refuse him entry, but he can't let himself in without giving notice or our agreement
<czajkowski> nods
<daubers> It's in the housing act
<daubers> or the landlord and tennant act, one of those two
<oimon> ugh..don't put your breakfast almond croissant in the same bag as an onion roll.
<daubers> I'm done with playing games, he's proven he doesn't really care by telling me that he'll fix the building issues "Before the next tennants move in"
<shauno> I do wonder if it's a little bit odd in places where you're letting a room, rather than the whole property.  I've been quite clear on that bit
<shauno> er, never been quite clear, rather
<popey> Morning ratfans!
<daubers> Morning
 * daubers goes to order a new laptop and wait for the estate agent to ring back
<oimon> for yourself daubers?
<DJones> grr. Sourceforge is down
<oimon> call the cops
<oimon> bah, their status page is broken too
<DJones> oimon: I tried that :)
<daubers> oimon: Yeah new work laptop for me
<DJones> I guess they must still be on holiday, their twitter account hasn't been updated either
<oimon> i'm an excellent speller but find it hard to remember the spelling of veeam , such a lame word
<oimon> often get veaam or veamm
<DJones> oimon: Is that even a word?
<oimon> not a word, but a product
<DJones> Ah, that explains why I can't find a definition in a dictionary
<DJones> I was trying to look it up to see what it meant
<oimon> i have my blanket again today. i wonder if i can take it to a meeting
<DJones> I could do with a hot water bottle
<oimon> did that last year. tootsies get rather cold in this office
<oimon> if you are applying for a role/project at work, is it arrogant on the form to say that $company would benefit from my services?
<popey> daubers: what you gettin?
<daubers> popey: Samsung i5 thing
<daubers> popey: http://www.added-dimension.co.uk/ExpertNotes/2011/Samsung/Notebooks/NP-600B4B-A01UK.pdf <- That
<gord> oimon, if you have to ask, its probably not worth taking the risk
<oimon> :P
<gordonjcp> oimon: maybe, maybe not
<oimon> changed it to "i have a lot to offer"
<gordonjcp> oimon: you're trying to get them to buy what you're selling
<gord> i will pay you ten english pounds if you change that to "otter"
<gordonjcp> oimon: if you have a specific thing they can benefit from that you do, you should tell them
 * oimon finds a suitably ambiguous font
<DJones> oimon: Comic Sans :)
<popey> nice daubers
<gord> i had to print out some labels over the holidays, used the ubuntu font of course. something about it seemed quite comic sansey. kinda weird when it looks quite professional on all my displays
<oimon> using glabel? that's a great app
<oimon> especially for jam jars
<JamesTait> Morning all.
<gord> erm, i used open office, i guess, or libre office? i don't know. i pressed the document button on my launcher and got something and it had a label button
<oimon> shame, glabel is a joy
<gord> whatever it was let me select the specific paper type i was using and let me edit the text that was printed on them, pretty much all i needed ;)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<Laney> ello
<brobostigon> hello Laney
<Laney> alright?
<brobostigon> not in the slightest, my eczema is pretty bad. and you?
<Laney> oh :(
<brobostigon> agreed, yes.
<Laney> back at work blues
<Laney> listening to uupc though, and glad to see that they propogated the "fedex arrow" disease to others :-)
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> i didnt look during the show
<popey> just looked
<popey> can't unlook
<Laney> you definitely can't unsee it
<Laney> but your mission becomes to spread the virus as wide as possible
<popey> which reminds me
 * popey fires up gpodder
<Laney> now i feel christmassy again
<Laney> pretty blowy out there, eh?
<davmor2> Morning All
 * davmor2 tickles czajkowski 
<hoover> morning
<czajkowski> davmor2: hello my dear how are you this fantastic morning
 * davmor2 staples czajkowski hair to the back of her chair for being so damn cheerful
<davmor2> Fine thanks
<davmor2> you?
<czajkowski> great thanks
<MooDoo> good morning davmor2 kind sir and czajkowski beautiful ma'am :D
<popey> creep
<MooDoo> oh ello popey you old git ;)
<popey> thats more like it
<gord> if i ever see davmor2 with a stapler in his hand, i'm going to judo chop him in the face.
<MooDoo> gord: remove the first part and just jodo chop him any way
<czajkowski> MooDoo: ello poppin, how was your Christmas?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: it was fabulous my darling, i hope you got everything your beautiful heart desired ;)
<czajkowski> I did indeed, it was great
<MooDoo> czajkowski: fabbo, i got a new camera :D
<czajkowski> oh snazzy what kind ?
<czajkowski> hmm that reminds me I need to get a lens protector and some cleaning fluid
<MooDoo> czajkowski: Nikon D300s with a MB-d10 battery grip :)
<davmor2> popey: did you like the youtube video of minecraft with wii remote :)
<popey> didnt see it
<davmor2> Jan 04 12:51:13 <davmor2>	popey: this one is for you and the minecraft massive http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgJHDPTN5gw
<czajkowski> MooDoo: nice
<MooDoo> czajkowski: yes it is :)
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> danfish: AlanBell mattt just rang grounpon and got them to reset my code will be fixed on monday, seems to have been some issue with the codes being uploaded. you can email them to get yours reset
<bigcalm> davmor2: whom are you calling massive?
<davmor2> bigcalm: I know there is big following and posse didn't sound right :D
<MartijnVdS> Jungle is massive?
<daubers> Wicked?
<gord> the 90's was 12 years ago, let it go :P
 * bigcalm wibbles
<MartijnVdS> gord: NO!
<MartijnVdS> "_
<MartijnVdS> :)
<davmor2> gord: I'm stuck in the 80's dude leave me be
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: 1880s?
<gord> spent a good chunk of yesterday trying to remember the name of that red headed comedian that would fake interview people on the red carpet in the 90's. finally remembered this morning -_-
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I ain't that old :P
<bigcalm> gord: whom was it?
<gord> bigcalm, that would ruin all the fun wouldn't it?
<christel> haha
<bigcalm> I don't remember such things any way :P
<monsterwizard> what does everyone think of my set up
<monsterwizard> http://goo.gl/uK2fh
<MartijnVdS> monsterwizard: reverse nyan cats?
<bigcalm> Someone set us up the bomb
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://unhearit.com/
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> What I'm currently listening to has a bit of a rude name, so won't repeat it
<davmor2> gord: I vaguely remember that
<Dave2> I was confused and then realized that this wasn't the channel I thought it was
<bigcalm> Dave2: disturbing isn't it?
 * christel channels Dave2 
<bigcalm> Oh my
<Dave2> !
<christel> I'll disturbe YOUR channel
<christel> (did i do it right?)
<bigcalm> You have
<gord> Dave2, check around your surroundings for jedi's
<christel> \o/
<christel> do you know what i did yesterday?
<christel> i installed ubuntu for the first time evar
<bigcalm> No, but I know what you did last summer
<bigcalm> Ooo
<popey> \o/
<bigcalm> What drove you over the edge?
<christel> having always said that it was a silly distro and i'd stick to debian etc
<davmor2> Dave2: This is not the channel you are looking for, you can go about your business, move along, move along
<christel> bigcalm: well, i feel it was only fair seeing how i keep impersonating an ubuntu user and attend all these ubuntu social events full of lovely people
<christel> and you know, i sort of like it
<bigcalm> \o/
<daubers> the lovely people are the big pull factor for ubuntu - *FACT*
<gord> "Ubuntu: I sort of like it". we should put that on the website
<bigcalm> Haha
<christel> haha
<monsterwizard> http://unhearit.com/
<gordonjcp> "Ubuntu - it's not that bad when you get your head round it"
<davmor2> christel: Isn't that like most people saying it's the most amazing thing in the universe?
<christel> :P
<AlanBell> thanks czajkowski
<davmor2> christel: Blame czajkowski she isn't breaking, damn her!
<christel> davmor2: don't break her, she's going in to be repaired tomorrow -- wait until she returns!
<bigcalm> The ubuntu-uk website needs a 'faint praise' section
<christel> it'll be much more satisfying then!
<christel> it also was much quicker to install than gentoo.. who would have thought it?
<christel> :P
<davmor2> christel: No then I have to be nice till she is better then I get to annoy her really good :)
<christel> *grin*
<bep> Ho
<bep> oh noes
<christel> i may give it a try for a while, we shall see how i like it
<davmor4> 4 is better than 3
<christel> i've even decided to give unity a fair try (though xfce may be pulling me back)
<davmor4> even better than 2
<MartijnVdS> davmor4: why not pi?
 * davmor4 chuckles
<oimon> my brother in law "hey oimon i instaleld ubuntu on my laptop, it's brilliant, it's really improved since that time you tried to get me to use it 5 years ago". me: " hey that's great. glad you enjoy.which version?" b-in-law: "the latest one, 11.04 i think",
<popey> Excellent.
<christel> \o/
<popey> Screw you, nay-sayers!
<oimon> i guess that means he has unity
<gord> i read earlier that mint is going to start having its own de forked off from shell. i have no idea what the "i hate everything new" people are going to use now
<oimon> own what?
<oimon> DE?
<gord> desktop environment?
<MartijnVdS> gord: terminals with vi
<oimon> i thought you said de-forked
<oimon> :P
<oimon> new word
<popey> yay, i left a comment on omg
<popey> it's got 36 "likes"
<popey> that means I'm right, right?
<oimon> right according to 14yr olds
<MartijnVdS> popey: no it means people like you
<popey> dunno if they know its me
<popey> no avatar
<MartijnVdS> popey: nickname "The Popester", they know it's you.
<popey> 14 year olds are the ubuntu users of the future
<popey> 50 year old beardy anti-change types are the worm-fodder of the future
<oimon> 14 year old omg readers are the reactionary distro hopping wannabe mac owners of the future
<directhex> i am the me of the future
<oimon> having said that , i look forward to the release of elementary os
<popey> the only distro hoppers I know are mid-thirties and above
<gord> i think its a testament to the ubuntu community that you can often not tell the 12 year olds from the rest of them
<popey> lazy people who can't be arsed to file a bug, but _can_ be arsed to download an iso and completely reinstall their desktop
<christel> aahh, i've done some distro hopping
<gord> i meant that in the nice way, not in the everyone in ubuntu is a 12 year old way ;)
<popey> LOL!!!1111
<oimon> popey link to comment?
<directhex> strictly speaking, i don't care how old someone is, as long as they're not an idiot
<directhex> i tend to give idiots what they deserve, regardless of age
<oimon> although most of us were eejits when teenagers
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/01/is-linux-marketshare-on-the-rise-it-seems-so/
<christel> i dunno, i think my idiocy started much later..
<popey> in thre
<christel> :x
<directhex> conveniently, directhex@debian.org can be mean to people. directhex@ubuntu.com signed a code of conduct, and he's well behaved
<daubers> Why do  Ikeep hearing cockney rebel on the radio at the minute?
 * czajkowski tickles christel hello darling 
<christel> hey babe!
<christel> <3
<oimon> gord, were you referring to the cinnamon desktop?
<gord> oimon, maybe? i dunno
<oimon> i'm in favour of cinnamon if it makes gnome shell eaier to use
<oimon> essentially they are repackaging gnome desktop in the same way that ubuntu did with gnome2.x series (because the stock gnome 2.x was ugly). although many people never saw stock gnome2 cos most distros prettified it
<oimon> currently the gnome shell notifications interferes with the dock, so i hope i there's either an extension or different desktop that fixes the annoyances i've discovered with shell.
<christel> mmm i want a cinnamon swirl now
<oimon> when twitter says via: $app for chrome, does it mean chrome OS or chrome browser app? or both?
<oimon> hmm it seems hotot is available as a chrome browser app, must be it the
<mattt> czajkowski: thanks for the update!
<czajkowski> np
<oimon> i just looked at www.reddit.com/r/Ubuntu . it seems that a lot of people are using it as askubuntu or irc replacement . weird
<bigcalm> A client has just told me that "you're being very modest!". I can't tell if they are being sarcastic or not :(
<popey> oimon: people ask their own community
<oimon> true
<oimon> i ask ubuntu-uk irc for advice on home appliances and tv aerials
<davmor2> czajkowski: how come you get to tickle christel and not get your hands slapped
<DJones> davmor2: She must have warm hands
<MartijnVdS> http://trekcore.com/audio/
<christel> oh, she enjoys a good slap too much ;)
<selinuxium> Hi all.   o/
<selinuxium> Only just noticed Dropbox have updated there T&Cs... :(    http://www.itproportal.com/2011/07/04/dropbox-updates-terms-service-now-owns-all-your-stuff/
<DJones> Ewww, this looks a biy icky http://regmedia.co.uk/2012/01/05/quick_2.jpg
<MartijnVdS> Hmm.. burned to a crisp
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: again?!
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: 04 July, 2011
<gord> selinuxium, those type of agreements are normally there just so they can share your files, you have to give them the rights to let other people look at them
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Black dye apparently, to celebrate the release os Star Wars 1 in 3D
<MartijnVdS> There was never a Star Wars 1
<MartijnVdS> only IV, V and VI exist.
<gord> messa think you kidding yourself
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<MartijnVdS> gord: I also think they should make a sequel to The Matrix
<MartijnVdS> because they never did..
<DJones> MartijnVdS: This is true, although the scripts for 1-3 and 7-9 were done from memory
<oimon> DJones: is tht yoda's teeth in the jedi burger?
<selinuxium> MartijnVdS, I did say I only just noticed... :)
<DJones> oimon: Yuch, that makes the dark burger sound more appealing
<oimon> the dark one looks more like death star than vaders bonce
<Laney> haha, that Ubuntu phone mockup
<oimon> don't laugh too soon
<oimon> if shuttleworth does a monkey dance with the phone
<Laney> err
<popey> it wont be a phone, it'll be a toaster
<daubers>  Ubutoast!
<popey> anyone know if it's possible to supress the screensaver lock when you resume from suspend?
<daubers> Or have they finally implimented coffee over IP?
<popey> so it wakes to the desktop?
<daubers> Do we still use the gnome screensaver thing?
<AlanBell> popey: in gconf-editor
<popey> yes
<popey> oh, where?
<Laney> it used to be /apps/power-manager/something/lock IIRC, but that might have changed with gsettings
<AlanBell> err, it is gone
<AlanBell> apps/gnome-power-manager/lock I think, but it isn't there, I did it on an old laptop
<Laney> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=662432#c0
<lubotu3> Gnome bug 662432 in gnome-power-manager "No way to disable screen locking after suspend." [Major,New]
<popey> this is on 11.10
<popey> suggestions include.. blanking the password
<popey> and removing the screensaver package
 * popey tickles aquarius with SSDs
<AlanBell> I was thinking kill the screensaver in /etc/apm/resume.d
<popey> another good one
<AlanBell> *however* that means someone can unlock your screensaver by closing the lid and re-opening it
<popey> this is for someone who has a girlfriend with a netbook who cares little for security
<popey> so 'meh'
<Laney> but wants the lock on normally?
<popey> no
<popey> wants to never have to enter passwords
<Laney> oh
<AlanBell> oh, just turn off the screensaver lock then
<popey> the old windows and osx way
<Laney> yes indeed
<popey> that doesnt work AlanBell
<popey> resume _always_ invokes screensaver
<popey> whether you have that on or off
<Laney> gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.lockdown disable-lock-screen 'true'
<Laney> try that
<popey> thanks for the suggestions chaps
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: re closing and opening laptop lid - that's not really important; if I decide I never want a screensaver password under any circumstances I should be able to get that
<gordonjcp> I never want to have to enter a login password either
<Laney> it wasn't clear that was what was requested
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: yes, I didn't understand the requiremnets properly
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: ah, I see
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: it's annoying wee niggly things like that, that really bug me
<AlanBell> what I would like is if I wander off and leave my laptop it locks. If I shut the lid, walk somewhere else with it and open it then I don't have to unlock it because I never left it
<gordonjcp> although what's most annoying is that suspend doesn't work at all
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: well in that case, use bluetooth
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: get your laptop to detect your phone and lock based on RSSI
<AlanBell> good point, is there a nice package for that?
<gordonjcp> there used to be
<gordonjcp> that's how the thing that did that on Macs worked
<AlanBell> !info blueproximity
<lubotu3> blueproximity (source: blueproximity): locks/unlocks your desktop tracking a bluetooth device. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.2.5-5 (natty), package size 290 kB, installed size 968 kB
 * AlanBell goes to poke someone about the bot distro version
<daubers> \o/ my horrific mass of interlinked models in django work
<s-fox> Boo MooDoo  :)
<KrisDouglas> I love blueproximity
<Laney> sounds like a battery sapper
<KrisDouglas> Depends how good your BT device is/how well supported.
<zleap> tombrough,
<AlanBell> my house has stopped responding to pings
<oimon> if a a blueray writer writes BR disks at 6x , what speed does it write DVDs if at all?
<gord> i don't think there is a direct relation
<oimon> i seee
<oimon> looking further it seems that a typical 6x BR writer, will read/write dvd at between 5-8x ..so 35mbs vs 10mbs
<oimon> i meant to say, 35mbs = 1x BR , 10mb = 1x DVD. also a 6x BR writer will prob write at between 2x-6x
<davmor2> Laney: depends if your bluetooth device is a PS3 controller :D
<davmor2> oimon: No it will almost certain burn as fast as the DVD will allow
<rascal999> are there any hack talks in the uk?
<zleap> not sure,  you mean like in the US
<rascal999> zleap: yeah
<zleap> well user groups may give talks,  on stuff
<zleap> hacking is seen my many as breaking in to systems,  rather than hacking in the programming sense
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<zleap> or hardware hacking sense
<zleap> rascal999, sorry i can't help further
<davmor2> czajkowski: what for this time?
<czajkowski> davmor2: just cause :)
<rascal999> zleap: 44con is what i was after
<davmor2> czajkowski: that's worrying
<czajkowski> aww miss you too davmor2
<bigcalm> Have a hug and be happy :)
<MonsterKiller> ? stock
<MonsterKiller> wrong one
<MonsterKiller> lol
<danfish> afternoon
<danfish> practice manager - "the screen on the server's gone all funny"
<danfish> it's a windows 2003 server
<oimon> i embarrassed myself the other day by asking where the base unit of a new imac was. looked identical to an apple monitor
<danfish> ^^^ reason 1103 why it can be bad to have a gui on a server :/
<zleap> ok,  i will look 44con up to see what it is anyway
<Azelphur> Is it possible to create a user called "admin" which is the same as the admin group? useradd and adduser whine about the group already existing
<ali1234> yes it's possible
<Azelphur> how?
<ali1234> just edit /etc/passwd
<Azelphur> haha
<ali1234> ubuntu makes a group for every user
<ali1234> idk why, it never used to work that way
<Azelphur> fun
<Azelphur> think actually instead of creating an admin account I'll just give each person who requires it an account in the admin group, it's probably better/more secure anyway.
<bigcalm> You could use sudo
<Azelphur> that would be using sudo
<bigcalm> Ok
<Azelphur> if you put someone in the admin group, that gives them sudo access
<jutnux> You can also edit the sudoers file by typing visudo
<directhex> you can pass --ingroup to adduser, to add a new user to an old group
<MartijnVdS> you don't even have to learn vi if you set the EDITOR or VISUAL environment variable
<directhex> EDITOR=oowrite
<bigcalm> Oh my
<bigcalm> Friday tomorrow \o/
<zleap> gedit or bluefish works fine for me,
<gordonjcp> gedit ftw
<zleap> :)
<zleap> hello ukaya
<ukaya> hi
<ukaya> how are you
<Laney> I am scared about my impending windy ride home :-O
<zleap> ok is this correct,  for apps the close button thingy is on the top bar of unity, whereas the nautilus one is on each window ?
<directhex> i am scared about my impending attempt to get out of a tight parking space
<Azelphur> haha
<Laney> one day i'll learn to drive
<TheOpenSourcerer> quick grep question... please.
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: !ask :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> Syntax to search for "..."
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: grep \\.\\.\\. foo
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: or grep '\.\.\.' foo
<MartijnVdS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leaning_toothpick_syndrome :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> ty
<bigcalm> \.{3}
<TheOpenSourcerer> gah - there are millions of "..." in the code. Am trying to find a SQL query that has a LIMIT clause and is adding "..." to the result. This will be fun. BUt now it's tea time!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: grep does {x} syntax?
<bigcalm> No idea :)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also, escaping for shell, so \\.
<bigcalm> I assumed containing quotes
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: do you need to replace ... with &hellip; ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: nah. I just want to find where the code is appending "..." to the result. But tea's up. Laterz.
<bigcalm> I see
<AlanBell> yay, home router rebooted and my house can be pinged again
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> We had my grand mother's router on a timer switch that would turn it off for 1 min each day. Only way to ensure that it was working the rest of the time due to random drops
<MartijnVdS> ouch
<davmor2> popey: I wants a shuttlepad :D
<popey> Me too! :D
<davmor2> popey: I'll take a couple of those Ubuntu Phones from OMG!Ubuntu too :D
<popey> yeah, maybe if they dial down the orange a bit
<jacobw> more aubergine
<davmor2> popey: No I like the Orange and the 2inches of camera lens
<jutnux> I want a Shuttlepad and an American Mastiff
<jutnux> Or a St Bernard :-)
 * gordonjcp isn't really a dog person
<ali1234> ubuntu phones lol
<christel> i don't know what a shuttlepad is
 * christel googleses
<christel> ok, that does not appear to be a breed of dog :P
<jutnux> I have a cat
<jutnux> but she's boring
<ali1234> if your washing machine threw up a cryptic error message and then crashed more than once you;d demand a refund. why do we accept this from PCs?
<ali1234> and why have we allowed apple and google to take over the mobile market with equally crappy software?
<davmor2> jutnux: I have a cat too, well sponsor one, it's not so boring https://picasaweb.google.com/104244164525559506101/TigerTrip2010#5479982494408818594
<jutnux> davmor2: That doesn't count :-(
<davmor2> jutnux: It's a cat
<jutnux> I meant a small cat capable of living in a house.
<davmor2> jutnux: That is it's only 8feet long
<ali1234> you know how you can get micropigs
<jutnux> You know what I mean, I hope.
<ali1234> can you get microcats? that are like mouse-sized?
<jutnux> ali1234: Doubt it
<jutnux> ali1234: I find it funny when people purchase MicroPigs
<jutnux> Only to get a real pig
<ali1234> i guess housecats are microcats really
<ali1234> when you think about it :)
 * mattt went to ikea, and is now knackered
<christel> ah! i am ikeaing on saturday!
<jutnux> Ikea <3
<Azelphur> I'm playing with my shiny new server :3
<Azelphur> setting up inspircd now, funny enough :D
 * mattt doesn't like ikea
<mattt> it just goes on and on and on :/
<Azelphur> blasphemy
<jacobw> http://www.90percentofeverything.com/2011/04/10/alan-penn-on-shop-floor-plan-design-ikea-and-dark-patterns/
<Azelphur> what's a good tool to get shiny graphs for network/cpu etc? :)
<jacobw> cacti
<Azelphur> fancy
 * Azelphur loads it on his PC to take a look
<ali1234> cacti is horrible to set up
<ali1234> it's easier to just set up rrdtool manually
<jacobw> yes
<Azelphur> haha, yea it doesn't seem to be being too great, It never asked me to create an account so I had to dive into MySQL and reset the password to login, once I logged in it doesn't actually seem to be generating any graphs
<Azelphur> XD
<jacobw> its fussy
<Azelphur> preferably just want something that's click n go
<jacobw> http://workaround.org/try-zabbix
<Azelphur> zabbix does sound fancy, I did want service monitoring too
<jacobw> workaround.org is great
<jacobw> home of the ispmail tutorials
<Azelphur> :)
<mattt> speaking of cacti
<mattt> i've been trying out zenoss ... it's a nice combo of nagios + cacti
<mgdm> I played with opsview for a bit
<mgdm> it seemed nice enough
<mattt> opsview are based in reading, thought that was kinda cool :P
<mattt> but otherwise the interface looked a bit brutal to me, but i didn't give it much time
<ali1234> how do i add a patch to a package that uses cdbs simplepatchsys?
<Laney> put it in debian/patches (use edit-patch)
<ali1234> cdbs-edit-patch
<ali1234> ok, someone want to confirm #912524 for me?
<AlanBell> bug 912524
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 912524 in cairo-clock (Ubuntu) "cairo-clock has a white triangle in the bottom right corner" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/912524
<Azelphur> are system v init scripts responsible for restarting crashed things? or are they just start/stop usually
<ali1234> just start stop
<Azelphur> righto :p
<ali1234> usually they use start-stop-daemon if that behaviour is desired
<ali1234> well they used to
<ali1234> everyone uses upstart or systemd now
<ali1234> they are better
<Azelphur> o.O
<ali1234> if you are working on some busybox embedde dsystem then anything goes
<Azelphur> I dunno what I'm using, whatever the built in thing is in 11.10
<ali1234> dunno, but it's not sysv init any more i know that
<Azelphur> fair enough
<ali1234> wow, cairo-clock sure is buggy
<hamitron> evening
<Azelphur> ali1234: have you seen bitcoin prices recently? :P
<Azelphur> My coins have almost doubled in value since late december, awww ye :D
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> $6.5
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's awesome, I have 500B stocked waiting for the prices to rise
<palnj> yo dudes!
<Azelphur> yo dude! sweet!
<ali1234> i've only got about 70
<Azelphur> ali1234: hehe, Â£1300 -> Â£2100 in one week, my favourite interest rate/return on investment XD
<palnj> ali1234: so what's it we're discussing atm?
<Azelphur> palnj: bitcoin
<ali1234> yeah but what about opportunity cost
<Azelphur> ali1234: opportunity cost?
<palnj> just looked it up on wikipedia...i don't really get it
<palnj> :P so it's basically MoneyGram or something but over the 'net?
<Azelphur> palnj: http://www.weusecoins.com/ watch video receive answers :D
<palnj> alrightey then, thx Azelphur
<hamitron> Azelphur, the FTSE 100 generally gets better rewards than savings accounts, but has more risk ;)
<Azelphur> hamitron: *shrug*
<hamitron> I like bitcoin personally, but it is very unstable and very high risk atm
<hamitron> very interesting
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> there is basically zero risk if you don't buy them
<Azelphur> like me :D
<hamitron> ali1234, as with any investment
<hamitron> :)
<palnj> Azelphur: ah, now i get it!
<ali1234> you probably don't get it
<palnj> they say you can change BTC into USD, EUR and the like
<ali1234> bitcoin is very complicated
<ali1234> almost nobody gets it
<Azelphur> hehe
<palnj> why would i want Euros though? They're dead as of now :P
<ali1234> it's not like anything else that already exists
<palnj> ali1234: that's exactly why it's so awesome
<ali1234> agreed
<palnj> or rather, appears to /be/ so awesome
<hamitron> it is awesome, until it fails
<palnj> innvoation may bring haters, but the pleasure gained is save for laters
<palnj> one of my teachers said that to me a couple years back :D
<palnj> s/save/saved
<palnj> what is that, a triple post or something?!?!
<palnj> my pc's messed up
<ali1234> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle
<ali1234> hamitron seems to be stuck in the trough of disillusionment
<Azelphur> haha
<hamitron> ;/
<Azelphur> ali1234: he always is
<hamitron> bah, sod you all ;/
<palnj> overview of the Hype Cycle: a new technology is invented, and everyone gets happy over it, then everyone gets bored of it, and 10 years down the line, some people get interested in it again ;)
<palnj> i think that just about sums it up perfectly!
<Azelphur> :D
<ali1234> well it's more about unrealistic expectations
<hamitron> I think it is fine till something breaks it, so long as you don't expect too much
<hamitron> I put 5p coins in a jar, and realise it will never make me rich ;)
<ali1234> that's just about the worst investment idea ever
<palnj> the hype cycle has been in play with apple since just about forever
<palnj> well, 1970s America anyway
<ali1234> eh, not really
<hamitron> ali1234, 5p coins?
<AlanBell> 2p coins are a much better investment
<ali1234> the first dotcom bubble is a really good example of the hype cycle
<palnj> hamitron: i did that with pennies for 2 years, and made five quid
<AlanBell> the old ones have a scrap value of 3.4p
<hamitron> AlanBell, I put all loose change in jars
<hamitron> saves me money on new pockets
<ali1234> why don't you put it in the bank?
<hamitron> that takes effort
<palnj> hamitron: haha lol
<ali1234> how exactly are you planning to spend it if it's all in jars?
<palnj> i read on facebook: People who harm children deserve to be strangled at birth
<palnj> ironic really
<hamitron> I save it for years, then cash it in
<hamitron> I bought another motorbike with the last savings
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> with 5ps?
<hamitron> no, 20p and below
<ali1234> i bet the guy you bought it from was pleased with that
<hamitron> I have a jar for each type of coin
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> did the cash weight more or less than the bike?
<hamitron> hmmmm, it was heavy
<hamitron> I took it in 5 batches
<ali1234> LOL
<ali1234> why didn't you just take it to the bank
<hamitron> I did ;/
<hamitron> just all at once
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> so you had to make 5 trips to the bank anyway
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> i guess if you live in the middle of nowhere.....
<hamitron> but it felt good, counting all that.... with no idea how much I had
<ali1234> 6 hours later "wow i;ve got Â£3.60"
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> I was clever, and paid my sister Â£5 "to count some change"
<hamitron> I just watched tv
<ali1234> that's not clever
<ali1234> the bank will do it for free
<hamitron> time man
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> they have a machine
<hamitron> the bank wouldn't call round on a Sunday, and count it while I watch tv
<palnj> there is a much easier way to count money
<palnj> measure the weight of one coin of a certain type (e.g. 5p)
<ali1234> that's not reliable
<palnj> then weigh all of the same type (i.e. 5p's) and divide by the weight of one coin to find out how many 5p's you have, for example
<ali1234> they don't weigh the same anyway
<hamitron> last time I did it, I had it in 1.25kg tins of coffee, all mixed
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> not now though, better organised
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> not gonna let it get above Â£100 this time
<palnj> ali1234: standard deviation of coins is usually about a 100th of a gram at most p/coin
<ali1234> i must have lots of fake coins then
<hamitron> ali1234, I reckon you secretly count them every day, and wear them out ;)
<hamitron> tbh, I think bitcoins are probably a better way to save atm
<gordonjcp> hamitron: http://www.gjcp.net/smash/
<hamitron> gordonjcp, I did GCSE maths ty
<hamitron> :)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-06
<MooDoo> hello all
<MartijnVdS> http://www.fieldcandy.com/original/rulebritannia.htm
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings.
<MartijnVdS> \o TheOpenSourcerer
<danfish> watchout, TheOpenSourcerer is in overlord mood today
<MartijnVdS> danfish: Alan Overlord? ;)
<danfish> MartijnVdS: exactly
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<AlanBell> morning all
<danfish> o/
<hoover> good morning
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> Morning
<dwatkins> hiya
<oimon> rather chuffed to discover that today is friday!
<dwatkins> woot
 * hoover agrees with oimon 
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfVsfOSbJY0 ?
<oimon> doesn't dare click
<oimon> in case of...
<MartijnVdS> oimon: it's not Rick A.
<dwatkins> It's that Friday song, isn't it?
<dwatkins> Worse than a Rick-Roll, she is.
<oimon> i prefer ham roll
<MartijnVdS> Hmm: http://www.medievalcookery.com
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigonman
<christel> morning lovelies
<brobostigon> o/ MartijnVdS
<brobostigon> morning christel
<christel> how's tricks? :)
<brobostigon> christel: not so hot, my eczema is pretty bad, and have an emergency appointment with my doctor at 11am. and you?
<oimon> anyone know how to use acsm file in linux to get an ebook?
<DJones> oimon: Will they not just open as a though it was a pdf file?
<oimon> DJones: no :(
<MartijnVdS> acsm?
<DJones> http://ebookreadersoftware.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/acsm-files-what-they-are-and-how-to-work-with-them/
<MartijnVdS> ah.. DRM-encumbered?
<oimon> what a nightmare
<oimon> i wondre in adobe digital editions is even available on linux
<christel> brobostigon: auchies! i hope they give you something that helps -- i am not too bad! trying to wrap up a dreadful job by the deadline (noon) and looking forward to kicking back afterwards :)
<DJones> oimon: I don't think it is, although I think i can be installed under wine
<oimon> DRM sucks
<oimon> non-standard file formats suck worse
<brobostigon> christel: me too, yes, thank you. good luck, :), and then treat yourself with something nice to reward yourself.
<DJones> A bit old but may help http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-701191.html
<oimon> there's no way this will allow book sto be read on an ebook reader
<DJones> Which ereader? I got a kono touch for Christmas and I ended up activating that via windows and then donloading some books via the kobo website, they seem fine although I think they may be drm'd epubs
<DJones> kobo even
<oimon> I want to read an ebook from the library on a kindle
<DJones> the acsm file appears to be a file that gives you the right to download the book, not the book itself
<christel> brobostigon: i shall indeed! :)
<popey> i thought calibre had plugins to strip drm from anything
<MartijnVdS> popey: not in the default (apt-get) install
<MartijnVdS> for obvious reasons
<popey> no, not in the default install
<ali1234> also said plugins don't work with the newest release
<ali1234> luckily they all have standalone versions
<DJones> popey: I think the problem is that the acsm file isn't the book itself, just the right to download it into digital additions
<popey> ah
<MartijnVdS> I love how Amazon's Kindle works/integrates with the on-line store
<MartijnVdS> no messing around with crappy PC software
<MartijnVdS> just click "Buy" and get it delivered over wifi
<dwatkins> I was susprised to learn that the Kindle doesn't support epub, but everything else about it seems to work well.
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Same with the kobo, their website does the same
<MartijnVdS> DJones: it auto-downloads to Kindles?
<DJones> MartijnVdS: No, just to the kobo readers
<ali1234> android market and itunes work exactly the same way
<ali1234> it's hardly unique
<oimon> you would think the a library would make it easy to borrow (e)books...
<ali1234> why would you want to borrow an ebook?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: The fact that it's not unique doesn't make it a bad user experience though ;)
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: not necessarily anyway
<oimon> ali1234: to read it
<oimon> if it takes < 2 weeks to read a book, why buy it?
<oimon> i also wish to respect the laws of the coutnry
<ali1234> if it takes less than 2 minutes to make a copy you can keep forever, why borrow it?
<JamesTait> Good morning all. :)
<oimon> ali1234: ethics
<ali1234> that's the most pointless ethical decision ever
<ali1234> the end result is exactly the same
<oimon> except that one is "right" and one is "wrong" by the law
<AlanBell> you keep it forever anyway, just in a slightly soggier storage format
<ali1234> the law doesn't define what is right and wrong
<ali1234> it just defines things you can and cannot be punished for
<JamesTait> I think just because you can, doesn't mean you should. If you need the book for something you're going to refer to once and never use again, borrow it, or copy the epub and delete it afterwards. If it's worth keeping, it's worth paying the author for their efforts.
<oimon> i will of course complain the library for having such a ridiculous system..
<oimon> not that it will achieve anything
<JamesTait> Frustrating, isn't it?
<oimon> yeah :(
<oimon> currently installing mono for windows in wine :-\
<dwatkins> oimon: which application requires this?
<Laney> /mono/ for windows? not even .NET?
<oimon> adobe digital editions dwatkins
<oimon> i'm getting tied in know
<oimon> knots
<dwatkins> oimon: oh right, I've not used it but I can imagine.
<popey> chaps
<popey> when i press the touch pad on my laptop, the unity dash appears as if I have pressed the super key
<popey> any ideas how to debug this, it's highly annoying
<popey> the dash randomly appears when my fingers go near the touchpad
<MartijnVdS> is your mouse pointer on the top icon?
<MartijnVdS> of the sidebar
<popey> no
<dwatkins> oimon: you may find you get an "error converting license" even running ADE under Wine, in which case you might have to just cheat :-/
 * oimon cries
<dwatkins> i.e. run windows in a virtual machine, of course
<dwatkins> not that I would suggest cracking the drm or anything with calibre
<dwatkins> I refuse to use that app, the person who wrote it is full of bile.
<popey> which app?
<MartijnVdS> calibre?
<dwatkins> as MartijnVdS says
<popey> how so?
<ali1234> the UI is awful too
<dwatkins> popey: I don't need to use it, thankfully, but there was a long thread on launchpad about it mounting filesystems
<popey> we put the UI argument to him, he said its deliberate because its aimed at non-computer users
<popey> oh that
<ali1234> he deliberately made all the icons look like fisherprice?
<dwatkins> he fixed some things, but was rather unopleasant about it all
<dwatkins> hey, what's wrong with Fisher Price? ;)
<ali1234> because that's what non-cmputer users like?
<popey> well people were pretty off to him
<BigRedS> non-computer users? But it's a computer app!
<popey> you know what i mean
<popey> non-experts
<BigRedS> :)
<popey> normals
<BigRedS> yeah
<dwatkins> muggles
<popey> yeah
<occupy64k> Everything is a computer app now
<ali1234> also the UI is not good for beginners
<oimon> getting closer
<oimon> i can see the book inside digital editions
<ali1234> it's too complicated. too many toolbars
<dwatkins> there are those of us who run an IRC client from the command line whilst listening to the ambient sounds of the starship enterprise, and there are (at the other end of the scale) those who believe the internet is facebook ;)
 * dwatkins whistles innocently with his headphones on
<popey> hahah
<occupy64k> Too much complexity is bad.  Think of the magic number 7 plus or minus 2
<popey> speaking of which
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: /ctcp sound tada.wav
<oimon> can't seem to get the pdf/epub out of the software though
<popey> i was remotely controlling my motehr in laws xp machine last night
<dwatkins> occupy64k: five is right out!
<popey> i suggested she use something other than IE
<gord> We have had the new software centre icon for what, six months or so now? i still sometimes click it to open nautilus
<popey> i already had chrome on the box, and opened it
<popey> she said 'yes, but how will i get the internet on this'
<dwatkins> popey: oh my
<popey> so i set her homepage to yahoo.com and she was fine
<popey> thats how normals see it
<ali1234> gord: i removed it from the launcher. now i don't accidentally click it
<DJones> My dad is the same, he calls every browser "Google" because thats what his home page is
<ali1234> i replaced it by synaptic :/
<oimon> ahah...finally have a drm encumbered epub to work with
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I have a minimalist homepage to fill with links: http://rowla.dyndns.org/
<gord> i actually like the software centre, so i don't really want to remove it, just wish it had a slightly different icon :)
<ali1234> i don't care for it. it takes far too long to load
<ali1234> and there's no feedback when it's doing something
<gord> it sure does, but still prefer it myself
<gord> i like the reviews
<ali1234> by the time i have loaded a package manager i already know what i wwant to install
<ali1234> thus reviews are useless, except maybe as something to read while i wait for it to install
<brobostigon> its like for example, my dad knows other mp3 players exist, and tablets exist, but still generalises them as ipods and ipads.
<oimon> going back to calibre, someone say i have to download the deb from the site to get it to strip drm?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> don't use calibre to strip DRM, it doesn't work in the new versions
<ali1234> the plugins are not updated
<dwatkins> and there was me worried I was reccomending a "naughty" application...
<ali1234> instead, you should just go to the plugin site, and get the standalone version that only needs python and operates from the command line
<dwatkins> oimon: can you get the book in PDF format and just e-mail it to your converter address?
<dwatkins> oh wait, it this for Kindle?
<BigRedS> I can't seem to find a xen kernel in the oneiric repos. Is it happy to be a domu out of the box?
<oimon> dwatkins: yep
<dwatkins> ok, yeah - get a PDF if you can
<oimon> i have a drm'd epub, which won't work on kindle
<Laney> I just got k4mobidedrm from some website, seems to work without much hassle.
<Laney> but you need to give it some serial number from the kindle so I'm not sure it can strip arbitrary epubs
<ali1234> right
<dwatkins> if you can get the publisher to provide an un DRM'ed PDF then great, but I'm guessing they'll just say "use a windows"
<Laney> what does windows or PDF have to do with this?
<ali1234> i don't see the problem
<ali1234> either they support kindle or not
<ali1234> if they do then there's no problem, if they don't windows isn;t going to help you
<oimon> the strange thing is that it says kindle is supported: http://llc.lib.overdrive.com/8052AA76-52FD-4468-88C3-6F95BB52CBAC/10/544/en/Default.htm
<dwatkins> ah yes, ADE won't upload to the kindle :-/
<dwatkins> so can you just get the PDF from there, oimon?
<DJones> oimon: From the help on that site Note: Amazon Kindle does not currently support DRM-protected Adobe eBooks.
<ali1234> no, kindle is supported for "US libraries only"
<dwatkins> or is there some other way to send the book to your Kindle?
<oimon> DJones: agh
<ali1234> so you can't legally borrow those books and read them on kindle
<oimon> what an absolute fail
<popey> hmm, is it impossible to get totem to loop a video without writin a shell script?
<DJones> I guess from Amazons point of view, they sell the kindle, they sell books, its not in their interests to allow books they've not distributed to be installed to read
<ali1234> popey: you can hand craft a playlist file instead
<ali1234> i think you can anyway
<popey> i see no option to do it
<popey> oh, you think you can craft a playlist, gotcha
<oimon> DJones: it's also the library's fault for choosing such a convoluted way of doing things
<ali1234> yeah you have to write a playlist with a text editor
<popey> thats crappy
<ali1234> yeah that's totem for you
<ali1234> what about "repeat mode" from the menu?
<popey> ah
<ali1234> seems to work for me
<popey> ta
<popey> stupid name for a menu option âº
<DJones> oimon: Its probably more the publishers saying that if you want to lend ebooks, they have to be drm encumbered to avoid people just copying it & redistributing it, are there any other methods of encrypting that are suitable
<DJones> oimon: Maybe one of these ebook lending libraries may have a different method http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/EBook_Lending_Libraries#United_Kingdom
<bigcalm> It's nice when somebody replies to a forum post I made in August 2010 to say that it helped them
<hoover> Hey Biggie
<bigcalm> My code is still relevant!
<bigcalm> Hiya hoovie :)
 * hoover received a thank you comment on his wp blog for some lyrics I had written down in 2009 ;-) 
<ali1234> hmm it's that time of day when it's too late to have breakfast and too early to have lunch
<ali1234> and i;m really hungry
<ali1234> wat do?
<bigcalm> Have a banana
<ali1234> i've run out
<bigcalm> Or chew gum
<oimon> drink water
<oimon> or chew water
<ali1234> or drink gum?
<bigcalm> I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass. And I'm all out of bubblegum
<ali1234> who remembers blue bubble gum flavour drink?
<ali1234> in the plastic carton with foil top
<bigcalm> I remember it existing, I don't remember ever trying it
<ali1234> i tried it one time
<ali1234> also many times i stamped on the empty containers to make a loud noise
<bigcalm> :D
<oimon> i did that recently while on the field and my ears were ringing
<oimon> = old man
<ali1234> those air bubbles you get from ebuyer make a really loud noise if you pop them
<ali1234> http://www.sweetsncandy.co.uk/proddetail.asp?prod=BUBCUP024
<ali1234> YES
<bigcalm> Odd man
<ali1234> and it's barely even more expensive
<bigcalm> No Artificial Colours - that shade of blue does not look natural to me
<ali1234> LOL
<bigcalm> Reminds me of the blue milk in A New Hope
<oimon> there's not much in nature that is blue
<oimon> that you can eat
 * bigcalm ponders having blue wale for lunch
<ali1234> Colour: (Brilliant Blue FCF)
<ali1234> "It is a synthetic dye produced using aromatic hydrocarbons from petroleum."
<danfish> bigcalm: blue whalefor lunch? What's the number for the WWF again? ;)
<oimon> there's a man outside my window.
<oimon> i'm on the 10th floor
<bigcalm> Open the window
<bigcalm> Invite him in for tea
<danfish> oimon: is he wearing a cape and y-fronts?
<oimon> i have the blinds closed, so can only see a silhouette
<bigcalm> Creepy
<oimon> finally got the book in kindle format
<oimon> required wine+ ADE, python for windows, pycrypto for windows, calibre, and calibre intepteub plugin
<dwatkins> groovy, how did you manage it oimon?
<dwatkins> wow, that's quite convuluted
<oimon> i daren't tell the missis how long it just took
 * dwatkins gives oimon a cookie
<dwatkins> if you don't she might assume it was easy and expect you to do this all the time ;)
<oimon> it also means i have to login to my work PC to convert bokos in future
<oimon> wine is great when it works
<popey> red wine is best
<oimon> i've also been playing with cinnamon desktop - anyone wanna see?
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: when you off?
<popey> is that the desktop from the past?
<popey> or the desktop from the future masquerading as the desktop from the past?
<oimon> popey: it's gnome3/gnome shell based
<oimon> the latter
<oimon> mate is the desktop from the past
<popey> thats it
<oimon> cinnamon is quite nice
<DJones> oimon: Now you need to do a second book to see how long it actually takes now all the software is installed
<gord> i did enjoy popey's comment about all these DE's just being different places for icons, i do believe i'll be stealing that and claiming it as my own
<oimon> DJones: <5 mins
<oimon> i even took a screencast in 1080p format to please popey
<popey> what did you use to record it ?
<oimon> i discovered that if you mux a ogv file and a ogg music, the resulting length of the ogv is only as long as the shorter of the two
<oimon> gtk-recordmydesktop
<oimon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDysd_aBqqo
<popey> pretty though it is, I can't see a future for it
<popey> where'd the music come from?
<oimon> it's in the description
<popey> oh
<oimon> popey: do you try muxing audio track onto screencast without transcoding?
<popey> no
<popey> i dont put music them
<popey> i talk in them
<oimon> either way...ah you use recordmydesktop to collect to audio at the same time
<oimon> but it's mostly .js stuff to tweak gnome shell...http://paste.ubuntu.com/794747/
<s-fox> Good morning uk
<MooDoo> morning
<s-fox> Hey MooDoo :)
<MooDoo> s-fox: how are ya
<s-fox> MooDoo,  https://twitter.com/#!/_Silver_Fox_/status/155248794978627584
<s-fox> Creeped out?
<popey> no oimon i dont use recordmydesktop
<MooDoo> s-fox: yes i just read it on twitter, sent you a DM but as usual i'm ignored ;)
<s-fox> How are you  MooDoo  ?
<MooDoo> s-fox: very well thank you :) i'd say you're ok, albeit a little creeped out lol
<davmor2> Good luck czajkowski hope you feel better missing you already, prod!
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> hey MooDoo me owld Mucka how's life up t'north
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin lad....
<s-fox> Hello davmor2  :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I so expected Gromit after crackin then ;)
<davmor2> s-fox: How do
<s-fox> I'm okay thanks. Just been going over the google analytics on my blog. Haha
<s-fox> How are you doing?
<davmor2> Fair to middling
<oimon> does it show OS breakdown s-fox?
<s-fox> oimon,  Yes
<oimon> what sort of split do you get win/mac/lin/ios/android/other?
<s-fox> Let me work it out, give me 5 mins :D
<oimon> sorry :-\
<s-fox> oimon,  I have the stats
<s-fox> 45% gnu/linux
<s-fox> 45% microsoft windows
<MartijnVdS> does android count as linux?
<s-fox> 9.7% apple mac
<s-fox> 0.3% other (ios & android)
<s-fox> MartijnVdS ^
<oimon> mobile traffic seems v low
<oimon> a lot of my browsing is done on the train
<oimon> i guess it depends on the type of site really
<dwatkins> I like the theme on your blog, s-fox
<dwatkins> ...and the little space invader I can destroy
<gord> i don't think mobile traffic will ever beat the "bored at the office" traffic ;)
 * dwatkins hides his tabs
<gord> using a phone then is too obvious
<s-fox> Exactly oimon, my blog has no real specific purpose. Just a collection of whatever I am thinking / doing.
<s-fox> I like that :D
<dwatkins> sounds much like mine, s-fox :)
<s-fox> I should also probably puplish another community interview. I have a couple ready to go
<s-fox> lol
<s-fox> publish
 * dwatkins learns who Em is
<s-fox> Em caused quite a stir when I asked her if she would like to participate.
<dwatkins> oh yes?
<s-fox> It got a reaction, check the comments. ;)
<dwatkins> I joined the channel, but it was very busy and moved too fast for me to multitask and participate
<dwatkins> heh
<dwatkins> quite the diverse collection of reactions, yes
<s-fox> dwatkins,  Yes indeed.
<s-fox> That channel has over 100 people in it at any given point in time, all with ubuntu in common. And it is not official. That is surely a part of the community.
<s-fox> So, today is friday. Anyone got plans for the weekend ?
<MooDoo> clear out the garage, take laddo to the pictures and take lots of photos
<oimon> hang on, what's club-ubuntu?
<christel> ahaha
<popey> ho ho ho
<s-fox> lol
<oimon> is it real?
<s-fox> very
<christel> fsvo real ;)
<popey> its an irc channel
<popey> how did you hear about it oimon ?
<s-fox> It is borderline nsfw at the best of times.
<oimon> popey: i'm just reading why the interview on s-fox blog caused consternation
<oimon> "for those that do not know Em is the founder of the popular IRC channelÂ ##club-ubuntu."
<oimon> never heard of it
<popey> s-fox interviewed em?
<s-fox> Indeed I did popey
<popey> *boggle*
<christel> oimon: when the channel was first created, Em created a bit of controversy by mass-inviting users from a variety of channels (primarily ubuntu ones, although also channels completely unrelated to ubuntu)
<christel> not everyone took too kindly to the unsolicited invites ;)
<oimon> is it publicly logged?
<s-fox> Unlikely.
<Myrtti> no
 * oimon wonders if there's a joke he's missing
<christel> hehe nah -- the approach she had when creating the channel was just one which resulted in a lot of complaints from users, to the ubuntu ircc/cc, freenode staff, etc. and ate up a lot of time for many people, the channel as it is now may be a nice place :)
<s-fox> christel, I would say it is lighthearted banter. It is actually quite fun sometimes
<christel> :)
<s-fox> But certainly you could not guarantee everything discussed would be safe for work
<s-fox> which is why it is ## and not #
<Seeker`> no, that isn't why it is ##
<bigcalm> ## because of the ubuntu bit
<bigcalm> Otherwise lugradio would have to be ##
<s-fox> i always though # is for official channels. :)
<bigcalm> Yes
<s-fox>  /s/though/thought
<Seeker`> it is ## because it was a trollpit when it was formed, and the only thing that the IRCC could do to get rid of it was to not allow them to use the #ubuntu namespace
<christel> she actually did start it as a # channel initially, but agreed to move it to ## namespace as she didn't have a claim to the name
<s-fox> and by that, subject to the ubuntu code of conduct
<popey> there are some people there who have a big issue with the ircc and cc
<popey> i know some people there can be _very_ hateful
<DJones> More that ## channels is for official channels associated with a product & normally owned by organisation as with the ubuntu channels, the same logic is behind it being ##window because its not an official Microsoft channel
<christel> iirc the channel had a handful of re-names first, as she also tried to use channels which would fall under the ubuntu namespace initially
<bigcalm> There are other irc networks that they can use if they don't agree to the rules
<Seeker`> christel: pretty much
<oimon> people are well behaved in u-uk
<christel> those months could have been the best ones of my life you know...
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> 'style' => 'width:630px;height:18em;'
<bigcalm> Erm
<oimon> interesting how the number of users in u-uk is nearly always constant
<popey> some people just need a pit to play in
<bigcalm> Excuse me
<s-fox> +1 popey
<popey> we are under no obligation to provide the pit though
<Seeker`> bigcalm: She didn't want to be on another network
<davmor2> popey: There's a coal pit up the road we can send them there to play :D
<s-fox> My grandfather use to work up the pit davmor2
<DJones> in comparison, maybe the sounder list springs to mind
<davmor2> s-fox: down a pit surely ;)
<bigcalm> Oh my
<ali1234> sounder moved to yahoo groups
<ali1234> i think
<christel> emma had passion, but lacked direction -- i think that if she had wanted to, and there had been people available to mentor her a bit she could have been moulded into a positive contributor -- but at the time she ended up locking horns with too many people i think :)
<ali1234> or google groups
<christel> (but then, i am forever an optimist)
<popey> indeed
<popey> bike-shed
 * bigcalm hugs christel
 * christel hugs bigcalm 
<ali1234> i was hoping that they would just start posting the same stuff on ubuntu general mailing lists
<ali1234> would have served you right
<davmor2> christel: I wouldn't hug bigcalm you don't know where he has been ;)
<popey> hah
<s-fox> lol
<bigcalm> From my window, I can see a neighbour's cat meowing for food but nobody is home. It breaks my heart
<popey> i would have liked to see that too
<popey> then they'd get removed and realise this is the norm
<ali1234> of course
 * bigcalm kippers davmor2
<ali1234> because anyone who disagrees with the glorious leader is a troll right?
<popey> ooo kippers
<popey> hahah
<christel> bigcalm: aw go feed the cat!
 * popey bends down on one knee before the glorious leader
<s-fox> All glory to thel hypno toad
<bigcalm> christel: I do have a key to their house for feeding their cat when they are away. But I'm sure they've just popped to the shops
<davmor2> christel: see straight away bigcalm  is carrying kippers, so now you will smell all fishy
<christel> KITTY WANTS SALMON
<christel> feed it! you know you want to
<bigcalm> Haha
<christel> davmor2: ew :(
<bigcalm> Tell a lie. I can see movement in their house. Just kitty can't be heard
<davmor2> yeah bigcalm rather than sitting there throw it the kippers you just kippered me with
<bigcalm> Think I'll pick up some fish for tea tonight
<bigcalm> Smoked mackerel from Waitrose
<hoover> to choc or not to choc, 'tis the question...
<s-fox> Is that a question? :)
<christel> mmmackerel
<s-fox> davmor2,  Yes, you are correct. Down, not up.
<oimon> sent an email to my library about their poxy ebook lending service
<davmor2> christel: See how he turns more into a fish monger by the minute :D
<s-fox> oimon,  Is email your first line of contact when complaining?
 * s-fox is a fan of a phone call still.
<christel> you're quite right davmor2, you may have to protect me against his fishy ways
<ali1234> IRC is my first line of complaint
<ali1234> anyone know where i can get some 7/0.2mm equipment wire for cheap/free?
<ali1234> preferably lots of different colours
<davmor2> ali1234: NO
<ali1234> i don't mind if it's used
<davmor2> s-fox: when hungry I always recommend the same thing FOOD!
<s-fox> how do you know i am hungry?
<davmor2> s-fox: Well it's either that I'm stood behind you, or I saw your tweet :P
<s-fox> oh, okay :)
<s-fox> i thought i had another stalker. lol
<davmor2> s-fox: No your safe twitter it was :)
<s-fox> Back in a bit. Food
<daubers> ali1234: Ask you local hackspace?
<awilkins> Question ; I have two laptops with Bluetooth adapters ; they are on separate network segments but I still want to use Synergy across them. Can I create an ethernet link across the bluetooth adapters?
<awilkins> One is running Windows XP, for extra annoyingness
<ali1234> awilkins: use synergy-bluetooth ftw
<ali1234> i wrote it so it's excellent
<ali1234> oh wait, windows xp? not supported
<ali1234> you can use pan networking to make a IP link and run synergy on that
<ali1234> but good luck getting that to work on windows
<awilkins> Yeah, that was the bit I was thinking might be hard
<awilkins> My hopes were roused with the "Synergy-bluetooth" thing
<ali1234> well you could try to port it
<ali1234> it shouldn't be that hard
<awilkins> Just got a "special purchase" workstation at work
<awilkins> It's got 64-bit Win7 on it, but I'm running Ubuntu on it anyway
<awilkins> ICT won't "bless" it into the "nice" network because they can't get their crapware suite for 64-bit Windows
<awilkins> ali1234, Sources for synergy-bluetooth?
<awilkins> Is it a patch of the normal Synergy sources, or a separate project?
<ali1234> it's a fork
<ali1234> https://fsckyou.info/svn/synergy-bluetooth/
<ali1234> i should probably move that to github or something
<ali1234> one of the nice things about it is roaming "just works"
<awilkins> Laptop as the server?
<awilkins> Move around, workstations do your bidding?
<ali1234> no the laptop roams
<ali1234> the workstations run the server
<awilkins> Aha
<ali1234> it does service discovery protocol
<ali1234> but it will only allowed paired devices to see the service and connect
<ali1234> so basically you run the server and make a config file, pair the laptop, then run the client with zero configuration
<awilkins> I'm torn between Bazaar and git for interacting with old SVN repositories
<ali1234> and if you go out of range of one, and in range of another, it just starts working
<ali1234> you could run the server on the laptop i guess, if you wanted to control lots of machines without a kb/mouse but with a monitor
<awilkins> My new mobo has a BT adapter in it, actually
<awilkins> If I port this to Windows I can do the same truck
<awilkins> *trick ; instead of using RDP onto the Laptop (which is what I do currently
<awilkins> The desktop has better screens than the laptop though
<ali1234> i use the laptop like a second monitor / external hard drive all in one :)
<ali1234> so it runs the client, and each workstation i use runs a server
<ali1234> anyway there's no real reason it can't be ported to windows, other than i don't know how to do bluetooth on windows
<ali1234> bluetooth sockets are virtually identical to IP packets at an abstract level
<ali1234> they both use unix sockets API on linux
<awilkins> ali1234, Heh, my C family coding is pretty lame
<ali1234> so it was easy to convert it
<ali1234> the SDP stuff was a bit harder
<awilkins> ali1234, I restrict myself to very small patches to things like rcs and tidy.
<ali1234> no way
<ali1234> if it doesn't do what i want i will rip it apart and rebuild it
<ali1234> i don't care what language it's written in as long as it's not perl or java
<awilkins> Bah, Launchpad has no real sources for Synergy in it
<ali1234> synergy is largely unmaintained these days
<awilkins> The repo has a commit 13 days ago... but I do think it's quite stable
 * awilkins git clones the main repo
<awilkins> Do you know which tag you took for your patches?
<awilkins> ali1234, Eek, DBus
<awilkins> ali1234, Not sure how easy that will be to port to Windows...
<daubers> 2\o/ My book has shipped
 * daubers wonders when his new laptop will arrive
<MartijnVdS> daubers: late May
<daubers> :(
<MartijnVdS> daubers: I'm assuming Royal Mail here
<daubers> I'll hopefully be at the wrong address by then!
<MartijnVdS> they've already lost 2 pieces of mail for me this year. Mail from all around the world gets to my home in 2-3 weeks
<MartijnVdS> RM? 2 months. If at all.
<daubers> I quite like RM, at least they leave a card if they can't deliver and the sorting office opens at 7:30 so I can colelct on the way to work
<s-fox> Whoops, finger slipped
<s-fox> :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Sure, in the UK it'll be fine.. but internationally *shudder*
<daubers> MartijnVdS: All my international stuff goes by the office couriers
<daubers> Seems to get there in a reasonable time frame
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Couriers are fine. Packages are also fine. It's "normal" mail (letters, letterbox-sized packages) that don't get here
<MartijnVdS> and only from the UK
<daubers> MartijnVdS: We courier them too
<daubers> It's cheaper (weirdly)
<MartijnVdS> ah they haven't "opened up the market" for that here yet
<MartijnVdS> well for business mail they have, but not for private persons
<andylockran> are there any transit issues to Europe
<andylockran> via the interwebs
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: Hello, this is Europe calling!
<andylockran> wahey!
<hoover> cheers all, have a great weekend
<e1ectr0nauts> http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxdqt6PZly1qaqsoco1_500.gif
<DJones> oimon: (And any other kindle owners) Something to watch out for http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/01/06/amazon_compass_subscription/
<oimon> linux journal keep sending me free e-issues
<andylockran> that's nice of them
<DJones> Heh http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16440126
<DJones> Seems quite a good idea http://codeyear.com/
<gord> i look forward to see the drawings he makes the little turtle do
<oimon> got a response from the library about my ebook query
<oimon> I'm afraid this is outside our control. Our e-library service is provided by the American company, Overdrive. Amazon has no current agreement to make the service compatible within the UK. However- Overdrive have recently begun adding Kindle compatibility to all of the U.S. public and school libraries in its network. so we can only wait and hope that they extend this to the UK.
<monsterwizard> I am absolutely convinced
<monsterwizard> Ubuntu can replace windows for normal users
<sagaci> monsterwizard: great, now what
<monsterwizard> Now we sit here and do nothing
<monsterwizard> OR! We make it more complicated so it's still cool
<monsterwizard> to use linux
<jutnux> Hi all
<oimon> bob holness is dead
<daubers> Long live the king?
<oimon> do-do-do-do-dooo-do-do-dooo-do-do-doooooooo-dododododo
<oimon> (that's the blockbuster tune)
 * dwatkins hums the countdown ditty
<danfish> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_RAD6000 33Mhz clock rate and 128mb ram @ $300,000
<danfish> that thing must zing!
 * popey remembers again that he wants a VT100
<bigcalm> Will you code on it?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Can a python god explain this syntax to me please?
<TheOpenSourcerer> myVar = entry.discount and entry.discount or 0.00
<TheOpenSourcerer> (I kind of know *what* it does, but am not really sure *why*)
<gord> thanks to another excellent shipment of candy from candy japan, i'm now sucking on a pokemon themed lollypop with poprocks :)
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: seems like the "entry.discount and" bit is kinda redundant
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Yeah - I don't really understand it at all.
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: that's not a piece of Michael Bloomberg's first code is it? :D
<danfish> 15:23 < DJones> Heh http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16440126
<TheOpenSourcerer> maybe danfish, maybe
<TheOpenSourcerer> But anyway. IT'S FRIDAY!!!
<TheOpenSourcerer> This is really funny. Don't car if true or not frankly: http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/2135823/ed-miliband-shames-twitter
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/car/care
<danfish> it's officially beer o'clock. Down tools everyone and sup away.
<danfish> I think it's a curry sort of night
<jutnux> Haha.
<jutnux> I have burgers for tea tonight.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I will be having twice cooked roast pork chinese style with stir-fired veg rice.
<christel> dinner at yours tonight!
 * DJones will be having buffet
 * daubers is going out somewhere for dinner tonight
<daubers> can't remember where
<christel> haha
<danfish> Jamdani Hash for me I think
<jutnux> TheOpenSourcerer: I have stir fry tomorrow.
<stuphi> Steak and ale stew with dumplings
<jutnux> Dumplings <3
 * mattt wants chinese dumplings now :(
<mattt> dammit guys
<zleap> hello
<jutnux> Howdy
<zleap> how are you?
<zleap> local YMCA manager said he will try and see if he can promote ubuntu-youth to some of the people at the local YMCA.  so my contacting people is starting to pay off :)
<jutnux> What is YMCA
<jutnux> and I am good ta
<zleap> young mens charity association or something
<zleap> or what ever it stands for
<jutnux> ah
<AlanBell> christian
<christel> young mens christian association indeed
<zleap> ah
<zleap> anyway the manager said he will see what he can do,  and he also said he has used ubuntu a little
<zleap> which really helps
<daftykins> hey all
<daftykins> can anyone recommend UK based hosted MS Exchange email solutions companies?
<daftykins> looking at http://www.simplymailsolutions.com and know someone who's with fasthosts right now
<MartijnVdS> Hahaha. Haha. Ha.
<daftykins> mm? :)
<daftykins> i'd love to be pushing google apps for this client but they intend to use Outlook on a mac
<Azelphur> This is so awesome, someone made Wipeout IRL using quantum levitation http://www.wimp.com/controlledlevitation/
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: ? :)
<Azelphur> I want one :o
<popey> Azelphur: fake
<Azelphur> popey: it is?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I have no idea about Exchange in the UK
<popey> its a Sony viral ad for wipeout
<MartijnVdS> popey: it's still cool
<popey> it is
<Azelphur> popey: fake as in it's not really quantum levitation?
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ws6AAhTw7RA
<ali1234> quantum levitation is real
<Azelphur> ali1234: yea, I've seen that, I know it's real
<ali1234> sony could have made that video for real by hiring some scientists
<ali1234> but they hired some CG animators instead
<ali1234> everything in the video could be done for real
<ali1234> it just isn't
<daftykins> :D
<Azelphur> yea, it's fake
<ali1234> the thing is though it would make for a boring game
<ali1234> it would be like scalectrix - no steering required
<Azelphur> ali1234: true, just thought perhaps quantum levitation was moving forward a bit
<jutnux> Scaletrix was so good.
<ali1234> moving forwards how?
<ali1234> everything in the video has already been done before
<Azelphur> ali1234: true *shrug*
<ali1234> just look at this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lmtbLu5nxw&feature=related
<daftykins> nobody have an idea then?
<daftykins> hosted Exchange in the UK, dirty MS i know...
<ali1234> an idea?
<Azelphur> ali1234: oO, fun :D
<ali1234> every exchange hosting company that i've experienced has done a terrible job
<ali1234> but people tend to only call me when stuff doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: my employer offers Exchange, but we're in .nl
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> hmm, not sure if location that close is too big a deal now
<MartijnVdS> http://www.xs4all.nl/zakelijk/hostedexchange/
<daftykins> 2GB boxes, ouch
<awilkins> daftykins, I think we use Cable and Wireless, but our Exchange server is a bit larger than yours :-)
<awilkins> Not sure how much disk space we need but napkins maths would suggest it's around 200TB
<awilkins> Which is clearly silly, what with duplicate mails and all
<daftykins> awilkins: :D
<daftykins> erk 200TB of email
<daftykins> nasty
<awilkins> I'm sure it's less. That's just what you get when you multiply my quota by our number of users
<daftykins> the irony with hosted exchange setups with small mailboxes is users end up leaving auto archive on / having to stash things locally, which defeats the purpose of having it all online and accessible :D
<awilkins> daftykins, Indeed, I really wish they'd just slapped a big wodge of cash in Googles face
<daftykins> :)
<awilkins> daftykins, We had public IMAP before we went to Exchange
<awilkins> Now the only rich client you can use without signing into VPN is Outlook
<daftykins> i'd like to have offered google apps for this client but she's got macs and you can't use google sync with outlook for mac
<daftykins> ooh-err
<awilkins> If Google can allow me nearly 8GB of quota for nothing more than furtling through my mail trying to sell me toenail clippers, then I shudder to think what they could arrange for say Â£50 per user per year
<daftykins> certainly their google apps for business gives you 25GB for Â£33/yr/mailbox
<daftykins> so yeah - i bet that would give some :D
<awilkins> Hah, my quota is 200MB and as you know, Exchange search sucks big hairy ones
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> right i have to head off to town - thanks for your input awilkins !
<daftykins> have a good weekend all o/
<jacobw> boo
<MiLLo> ubuntu 11.10 what is the best software for burning images to cd?
<MiLLo> iso type images, not picture/jpg images that is (just to clear any confusion)
<jacobw> brasero is easy, k3b is powerful, wodim is command line
<MiLLo> k3b - is it hard to use?
<jacobw> hmm, i suspect brasero may have just as many features as k3b now
<jacobw> its not hard to use, its part of kde, which means it isn't the default installation as brasero is
<awilkins> Plus I think it's installed by default
<awilkins> (brasero)
<jacobw> short answer is brasero, i was being somewhat verbose
<awilkins> Simultyping
<MiLLo> haha
<MiLLo> ok
<MiLLo> brasero it is
<MiLLo> so long as it works - that's fine, need to install clonezilla
<MiLLo> as apparently i need to reinstall grub
<jacobw> why?
<MiLLo> (bootloader)
<MiLLo> somehow
<MiLLo> i managed to turn my windows partition non-bootable
<jacobw> how?
<Supermanintights> not a clue
<Supermanintights> that's what ##windows told me from my BSOD error codes
<jacobw> did they say reinstall the bootloader or reinstall grub?
<awilkins> How does Windows BSOD ... if it can't boot
<Supermanintights> erm
<jacobw> very good point :p
<awilkins> <agentsmithvoice>
<Supermanintights> meh
<Supermanintights> i click windows (safe mode, normal, last known good config), and it shows the windows logo, flashes BSOD, then restarts
<jacobw> if it BSODs then its not the bootloader
<Supermanintights> fml
<jacobw> correct the ntfs partition with gparted
<Supermanintights> conflicting info on a topic that's completely over my head
<awilkins> Sounds more like it's sulking because you replaced the bootloader....
<Supermanintights> if i gave you the link to my BSOD - would that help?
<awilkins> "Waah, I'm not the only OS on this box    #BSOD#"
<jacobw> i'm glad i'm a windows admin with upcoming EFI fun
<awilkins> Checklist : are you using any kind of disk encryption in Windows (Bitlocker, 3rd party, SafeBoot, etc)
<Supermanintights> erm
<Supermanintights> basically
<Supermanintights> i installed about 3 drivers
<Supermanintights> installed my gfx driver
<Supermanintights> and windows hasn't booted since
<awilkins> Hermm.
<jacobw> cause and effect
<awilkins> Drivers should now be the only thing that *causes* BSOD apart from hardware failure, and really, only video drivers at that
<zleap> EFI Is the new boot thing right that is tied in to windows
<Supermanintights> safe mode just BSODS, and so does LKGC
<jacobw> yes zleap
<awilkins> AFAIK all the other drivers now run in userspace on Windows (could be wrong..)
 * jacobw think awilkins is correct
<jacobw> my answer to windows problems is 'use ubuntu' :)
<zleap> yeah could be interesting if the OSS community complain about anti compeitive practice
<jacobw> debian, suse, fedora or arch :|
<Supermanintights> so what do you guys recommend i do then to fix it - this is my error code: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PgHfcj-VBP0/TwdTYVNzkwI/AAAAAAAAAJI/smJEEaJBoH4/s640/20120106_200028.jpg
<awilkins> zleap, I think there are already plenty of complaints in the community
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> it will cause a lot of problems given Linux is used a lot in science and non home environments
<zleap> like universities which may build mini linux clusters
<awilkins> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/embeddedwindowscomponents/thread/09aae527-ff6d-4003-9e59-962d73d409ed/   http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms940177(v=winembedded.5).aspx
<jacobw> Supermanintights: use gparted to check for errors on the ntfs volume and correct them
<Supermanintights> there's a red ! on my windows partition straight away
 * Supermanintights thinks jacobw is onto something...
<awilkins> zleap, It will have a chilling effect on trying alternate OSs - simply because it will be impossible to boot a LiveCD without first disabling a feature that a) may not have a disable switch b) requires you to go into BIOS c) is probably labelled "DON'T DISABLE THIS OR YOU'LL BE HAXX0RED!!!!!"
<lartza> Supermanintights: Maybe your harddrive is breaking apart :P
<jacobw> hmm, that dicussion suggests to check the bios for ahci specifics, i would do that.
<awilkins> Supermanintights, 7B is "missing  a component required to boot windows"
 * Supermanintights hopes lartza gets to 99% on the shrink and then it fails
<lartza> NOOO
<lartza> I want to install Arch :/
<jacobw> although i can't imagine anything in the bios would have changed with your knowledge unless you've upgraded it
<zleap> awilkins, yeah,  who exactly do we complain to ?
<lartza> Supermanintights: There is no progress actually and even the window is not responding :P
<awilkins> http://pcsupport.about.com/od/findbyerrormessage/a/stop0x0000007b.htm
<jacobw> OEMs
<zleap> ok
<Supermanintights> ok, jacobw - it came up with an error message when i tried to fix using gparted
<zleap> so just e-mail them and tell em we don't want this
<Supermanintights> awilkins, any suggestions on how i can undo whatever I did? or should i just reinstall windows?
<awilkins> zleap, Yeah, MS put the ball in the OEM court by demanding that they enable Secure UEFI Boot to get a "Designed for Windows 8" badge
<jacobw> ok, you mentioned you installed a graphics driver and two others, which were?
<Supermanintights> gfx, network, and touchpad drivers
<lartza> zleap: Make a movement not to buy their products or crack their servers, has way better effect :P
<Supermanintights> maybe one or two more drivers - they were the main ones
<jacobw> lartza: why arch?
<zleap> hmm,  so if that isn't anti competitive practice than what is
<awilkins> zleap, "A security feature" (for the media cartels more than the users)
<lartza> jacobw: I would really ask "Why not?"
<Supermanintights> and the only one i installed during the last boot/restart was the gfx driver (nvidia)
<zleap> perhaps write to the EU people and compl;ain adn get em to punisj MS properly as in BAN microsoft
<jacobw> lartza: agreed
<zleap> like SOPA via the back door
<jacobw> :|
<jacobw> just don't buy from those OEMs
<lartza> jacobw: I tried Gentoo and even going "back" to reguler distro's, Ubuntu and Fedora but nothing fit :P
<awilkins> Supermanintights, did you try "start up with last known good config" ?
<jutnux> zleap that was an unholy touch typing fail there ;)
<zleap> yeah
<zleap> i have a dodgy keyboard
<jacobw> lartza: what do you want to ubuntu/debian/fedora/suse don't have?
<jacobw> lartza: have you tried debian yet?
<Supermanintights> awilkins, yup, tried that, and safe mode
<lartza> jacobw: Never actually :)
<jutnux> Apparently you will be able to disable secure boot.
<awilkins> zleap, Model M : accept no substitutes (except Unicomp customizer and Cherry G80-3000)
<lartza> jacobw: I don't want Ubuntu's...
<zleap> ok
<lartza> newbiness :P
<lartza> They removed synaptic? I mean what the heck
<lartza> Was it synapcit? the package manager
<lartza> *synaptic
<Supermanintights> just download it, takes 2 seconds from the software centre
<jacobw> who uses synaptic? just apt-*
<lartza> jacobw: Packages are compiled with every dependency possible, I love AUR(like gentoo ports if you haven't used Arch)
<jutnux> lartza: sudo apt-get install synaptic
<awilkins> jutnux, Yes, you can disable secure boot - but the damage is done -    Joe Sixpack : "Whut, I have to press a key and fiddle in my BIOS and disable a security feature to boot this Live whatchamadiddly? Sounds like too much work to me...."
<lartza> jacobw: Yea Arch doesn't have graphical GUI for package managing either :P
<jacobw> you don't need a GUI for package management
<lartza> jacobw: Just they don't start making these music stores and easy install managers either...
<jutnux> awilkins: Indeed. Microsoft clearly think that Linux is a threat
<jutnux> rather than cancer..
<lartza> jacobw: Ubuntu feels bloated to me
<jacobw> i'm quite happy apt-get and the software center available with ubuntu
<lartza> jacobw: Before I switched from it I did use the minimal cd and then build up from that but...
<lartza> jacobw: Also seems software updates are slower than Arch and there is no AUR<3
<directhex> *cough*
<awilkins> lartza, Use Windows XP with McAfee, full disk encryption, and Novell Zenworks on it for a week. Then Ubuntu feels like you drank a gallon of syrup-of-figs to wash down the senna tablets.
<directhex> the reason for secure boot is an attack on GRUB, not on linux
<lartza> There are thousands of third party repos for Ubuntu but mhh...
<lartza> awilkins: I'd prefer not :P
<lartza> awilkins: I'd add 64-bit Windows XP to that, does it even support those two programs then? :D
<directhex> the most popular mechanism to use pirated windows these days is via a BIOS emulator, which fools windows into thinking it's on a different PC which was already activated. these BIOS emulators are booted from a non-Windows bootloader (i.e. GRUB)
<awilkins> lartza, I don't think so - they won't let us have Win64 on our network because it won't support them
<lartza> awilkins: Even Vista or 7?
<jacobw> debian is more advanced that people realise
<awilkins> Not even 7
<lartza> Well 7 atleast Vista isn't that good either
<lartza> Nice...
<jacobw> it can use a BSD or even a Hurd kernel :|
<lartza> jacobw: I know, it even has the rapid update repo thing :)
<directhex> there's no 64-bit XP. there's a rebranded version of server 2003. xp64 is not xp in any way, shape or form
<awilkins> We have a special purchase of laptops with Win7 64 on them for big Java dev that we can't connect to our local source repositories ...
<jacobw> dpkg/apt is far ahead of rpm/yum and every other packaging system
 * awilkins goes to buy food
<directhex> jacobw, curiously enough, the opposite is true, which is why it's good.
<lartza> awilkins: What about when you have laptops that come with 7 but your company downgrades them to Vista BUsiness? :)
<lartza> jacobw: Even pacman?
<jacobw> directhex: the opposite of what? dpkg/apt superiority?
<jacobw> lartza: especially pacman
<lartza> ;)
<directhex> jacobw, dpkg is far less sophisticated than rpm, which is why apt is better than yum
<lartza> Pacman is fine, it works :P
<lartza> Also way easier to package for it than deb's I would say
<lartza> Though I haven't packaged deb's in a couple years
<jacobw> directhex: interesting reasoning
<lartza> I like that reasoning for latest Ubuntu realeases :P
<Supermanintights> if i reinstall windows with ubuntu installed - will it affect my ubuntu partition?
<lartza> Supermanintights: Nope unles it's XP
<lartza> which might refuse to detect any partitions if there are ext ones :P
<lartza> Supermanintights: It will only affect MBR causing the need to reinstall GRUB
<Supermanintights> ok
<Supermanintights> luckily i have irc on my phone now, so i'll be able to say help when i screw it up
<directhex> jacobw, dpkg has a much easier job, because the package relationships are far more simple. simple package name/version relationships. rpm has dependencies on package names, versions, filenames, versioned symbols, or arbitrary metadata
<lartza> Supermanintights: Just watch what it formats and when and keep the powerplug on the other hand :P
<Supermanintights> meh
<lartza> After all it's Windows :D
<Supermanintights> i may borrow my bro's laptop to get real time irc help
<lartza> Supermanintights: Your phone irc is via SMS? ;)
<zleap> is there a repair windows option in vista / win 7
<jacobw> directhex: i think the seperation of features between rpm and yum is unclear
<zleap> as last time i had to reinstall i used the repair option and it left the mbr intact
<lartza> zleap: There is atleast for the bootloader but don't know if it can repair the system
<zleap> xp did
<lartza> zleap: Also on XP for some reason the options depended on what kind of disc you had...
<zleap> xp pro
<jutnux> http://signature.microsoft.com/Default.aspx
<jutnux> Lolololol
<zleap> well there are two options drops to a dos command line,  but the option on the next screen for repair seems more useful
<jacobw> directhex: its sounds as if yum does less work and apt and rpm provides higher level functions than dpkg
<jacobw> s/and/than
<zleap> xp is annoying when it wants to reboot after changes, but i am playing a game,  if i had gone afk it would just reboot and lose the game i was playing
<Supermanintights> lartza, nope, irc app - samsung galaxy note
<lartza> Supermanintights: That is real time then :P
<Supermanintights> you know what i mean
<lartza> Supermanintights: ;) maybe
<lartza> Samsung <3 (Galaxy S II
<lartza> *)
<Supermanintights> note is better than sII
<Supermanintights> faster, bigger, better
<jacobw> i like the idea of the galaxy note
<lartza> Bigger yea
<lartza> TOO big...
<Supermanintights> it's really not too big
<Supermanintights> once you use it, you adapt to the size really quickly, it fits in your pocket great, and it's lighter than the iphone
<lartza> SGS2 <3
<lartza> :D
<lartza> Used the first one before that loved it too
<lartza> WHOA nice
<lartza> the shrink finished
<lartza> Now I have 500 GiB for data partition and 397,17 for Linux
<Supermanintights> you have 400gb for linux?
<lartza> Supermanintights: 397,17 GB
<Supermanintights> close enough...
<lartza> 500 windows, 500 data and media, 397,17 Linux
<Supermanintights> why do you need that much? i've apparently done overkill with 50gb windows, and 25 linux
<lartza> Supermanintights: Windows is currently at 475 Gigabytes
<lartza> Supermanintights: Around 380 without my media
<lartza> Linux... just fills the rest :P
<Supermanintights> what on earth do you have taking up that much space?
<lartza> I don't necessarily need I just have that much space available
<Supermanintights> oh, how much are you using then?
<lartza> Supermanintights: Cyrrently 475 Gigabytes
<Supermanintights> what's on there though, that's a crazy high amount for software
<lartza> Supermanintights: Games, music
<Supermanintights> oh
<Supermanintights> i'm with you
<lartza> Supermanintights: My Steam folder is 104 Gigabytes
<Supermanintights> that's retarded
<Supermanintights> outside, there is sunshine
<Supermanintights> it's good for body and skin
<Supermanintights> go experience it
<lartza> Supermanintights: Well I am not even sure what there is...
<lartza> Supermanintights: I mean my Steam folder :P
<lartza> Well Team Fortress 2 takes the 15 gigabytes...
<lartza> Metro 2033 is 7 and a half
<lartza> Napoleon Total War is around 22 gigabytes and emprie is like... 16?
<lartza> *empire
<lartza> It' just few big games :D
<lartza> And I only play like half of them
<lartza> Like Napoleon and... TF2 at times
<oimon1> evening lads and ladies
<oimon1> does this link fail for anyone else? http://design.canonical.com/2012/01/launcher-reveal-prototype/
<oimon1> ah, working now ..
<reaper4334> your link url works for me, however I can't seem to get XChat to open links in Firefox :S
<reaper4334> nothing at all happens when I click the link...
<reaper4334> ...nevermind, I fixed it it was the "gui_url_mod" setting in XChat that was wrong
<Supermanintights> anyone got any virtual machine software recommended for ubuntu?
<Supermanintights> i.e. is it worth getting vmware of virtualbox or something?
<Azelphur> virtualbox is a favourite for most people
<reaper4334> have a look in the Ubuntu Software Centre, I think it's VirtualBox that's in there
<Supermanintights> yeah - so that'd be fine, no need to get the vmware or anything?
<awilkins> Supermanintights, I like Virtualbox, but I've been put off reinstalling it after seeing http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTk5Mw
<awilkins> I leave it on my Windows machine at the moment :-)
<reaper4334> Nahh, I've never had any problems with VirtualBox myself, I don't use it for anything critical though
<AlanBell> I use virtualbox all the time, works great
<awilkins> I tried MS Virtual PC once but it seems to have been carefully broken to make Linux LiveCD images fail to boot
<Supe> gotta love MS at times...
<Supe> i'm getting both virtualbox and vmware - see which one i prefer to use
<awilkins> Grr, one thing I hate about recycling is people dropping bottles in the bin at night
<awilkins> Sounds like yobs breaking things
<ali1234> Azelphur: do you still have that arduino?
<Azelphur> yep
<ali1234> did you fix it?
<Azelphur> tbh I havn't found the time lol
<ali1234> you can use it by programming it with the ICSP header instead of serial
<ali1234> you just need a parallel cable
<jutnux> Virtual Box works fine for me, also.
<ali1234> also it turns out that all arduinos have serial trouble under linux
<ali1234> but i don't think that's the cause of your problem
<ali1234> the new boards dumped that ftdi chip anyway so it's easier to fix them
<Supe> ok, after many hours of getting little done, running clonezilla - backing up my linux partition. then i reinstall windows. and then booom - finally a working dual boot
<Supe> at least until i run into my next problem
<jacobw> haha
<Supe> seriously, everyone says it's easy - you've been with me and seen most of the problems i've had.  its stupid
<Supe> right now i'm having to reinstall windows
<jacobw> why do you need it?
<jutnux> Seems like you've had a bad run
<jutnux> Just wipe Windows off and it';s done deal
<Supe> windows? adobe software, games and anything that isn't native linux
<Supe> that i'd use for business
<jacobw> what adobe stuff do you use?
<Supe> photoshop, dreamweaver, after affects, soundbooth, premiere, flash, illustrator
<jutnux> Dreamweaver is terrible
<Supe> they're the main ones i go into
<jacobw> vim > dreamweaver
<jutnux> vim > gedit > emacs > kate > dreamweaver
<jacobw> kate has a vi mode you know
<Supe> probably - i don't mind if there is a really good alternative, but photoshop i've spent ages working with - and have lots of plugins etc. for, and i like also using stuff like sony vegas ettc.
<jutnux> orly
<Laney> fyi, bay leaves are not nice to eat
<jutnux> never knew that jacobw
<mgdm> jacobw: the methadone to vi's heroin?
<jutnux> Supe: Perhaps a virtual machine would suffice for Photoshop?
<jacobw> :)
<Supe> i don't think my laptop is good enough to run photoshop at a high enough quality on a VM
<ali1234> how much ram does it have?
<Supe> plus i like just having the option - especially as it does mean if i get bored enough i can play games easily
<Supe> 4gb
<ali1234> that's plenty
<ali1234> it will work fine
<jacobw> VMs are much better now
<ali1234> wait, what CPU does it have?
<jutnux> I run photoshop fine on <700mb
<Supe> erm
<Supe> it's a toshiba satellite a500-17x
<Supe> that'll give you my specs
<jacobw> `cpuinfo`
<Supe> it doesn't run photoshop and leave me a lot to spare, the cursor seems ever so slightly laggy, but not enough that it has a negative effect
<ali1234> you need to install the irtualbox guest utils to fix mouse lag
<ali1234> that CPU doesn't have hardware virtualization so it's crippled
<Supe> http://uk.computers.toshiba-europe.com/innovation/jsp/SUPPORTSECTION/discontinuedProductPage.do?service=UK&toshibaShop=false&com.broadvision.session.new=Yes&PRODUCT_ID=1076471
<ali1234> you should always buy AMD CPUs for this reason
<Supe> i just bought a laptop that was on a big sale
<Supe> i asked can it run X Y Z (and play 1080p movies easily) - "yes", sold
<ali1234> it will probably still un acceptably well after you install guest utils
<jacobw> sales persons suck
<Supe> yep, they do
<ali1234> the cpu is plenty fast enough
<Supe> i knew they didn't really know, just said yes and knew nothing would happen if it didn't
<ali1234> it's just that intel cripples it's laptop cpus
<Supe> plus - as well as photoshop - i will be playing games, online
<Supe> i think once i run my next "sale" online, and bring in a few grand, i'll just treat myself to an alienware laptop or something
<ali1234> well games don't work in virtualbox
<ali1234> lolno
<ali1234> don't buy a laptop for general use
<Supe> i need a laptop as i work remotely
<ali1234> that makes no sense
<Supe> meh
<jutnux> you need to get a home job
<ali1234> besides you already have one
<ali1234> why would you buy another one
<jutnux> or work at home ;-)
<Supe> a better one?
<Supe> i do work at home
<jutnux> productivity works 1000000 fold at a desktop
<jutnux> for me anyway
<Supe> but, i could be told to go to my bosses office/flat which means a desktop isn't ideal
<Supe> i prefer desktops
<Supe> i agree on the productivity - i work far faster on a desktop
<ali1234> a laptop better than 4GB and a dual core 2.13GHz?
<jacobw> there's no difference
<Supe> but my desktop is shocking, that bad it's not even worth talking about
<jutnux> but then surely you could take the laptop
<jutnux> when you aren't moving everywhere
<jutnux> you could use the desktop
<ali1234> if you really want to run a lot of VMs with stuff like photoshop... well ... i have 16GB and a quad core AMD
<ali1234> you won't get that from a laptop
<Supe> my laptop overheats - so i was thinking of replacing it soon, i'd just thought i might as well treat myself to a top of the line one - with a battery lasting longer than 45minutes
 * jacobw prefers laptops, with external monitor and keyboard in comfortable location
<ali1234> the machine did cost less than a high end laptop though
<jutnux> ali1234: My next build will include a quad core and high amounts of ram.
<Supe> maybe once i've properly got this laptop (the one i'm dualbooting) sorted, I'll be happy with that
<jutnux> You run Ubutu or something else ali1234 ?
<Supe> and then i can biuld myself a proper desktop for my office
<ali1234> i recommend minimum of 8GB for a serious workstation these days
<jutnux> Supe: You cleared out the vents yet?
<jutnux> Maybe that is why it is overheating
<ali1234> i only run ubuntu and windows in vms
<jutnux> Me too
<Supe> problem is i wanted to build myself a HTPC - can people use HTPC's as a standard pc as well - for work/business?
<jutnux> this build has 4gb of ram
<jutnux> DDR3
<jutnux> runs okay
<Supe> or will that have negative impacts?
<ali1234> the difference between 4GB and 8GB  is very large
<jutnux> Supe: Depends
<Supe> jutnux, yup, tried all that - it heats up retarded though, especially when i plug in my monitor/tv
<jutnux> Hmm
<ali1234> with 16GB the whole OS is running from cache, so it's like having an SSD except even faster
<Supe> at times, i'm pretty sure i can smell something burning, and it has "shut down" a few times due to overheating, not many, and not for a few weeks, but has in past
<jutnux> Supe: Then you need to throw that laptop out of the window / get a refunds.
<jutnux> refrund
<jutnux> refund
<Supe> it's 18 months old now
<Supe> won't be able to get a refund
<jutnux> Ah
<ali1234> high end laptops are just a waste of money
<jutnux> I bought an oldish netbook to run a LAN Minecraft server on
<Supe> all my bosses/colleagues/friends use macs - i ran a hackintosh for a month, and felt almost suicidal
<ali1234> they always overheat and have terrible battery life
<jutnux> I tried Mac for 2 days
<jutnux> my productivity just went down down down
<jutnux> surprisingly, with Unity, it went up up up up
<jacobw> i'm confused by macs
<jutnux> I thought Mac was going to be amazing
<Supe> ali1234, i saw an alienware that looked good (and expensive) that had several hours battery life, and great specs - do you guys really reckon it'd not be worth getting one? for media/gaming/production?
<jacobw> the unix is obvious, the ui less so
<jutnux> Supe: If you can get a desktop instead, no.
<ali1234> alienware is known for being overpriced and not very good
<Supe> i can get a desktop, but i need a laptop as well
<Supe> if you get me
<jutnux> Supe: system76 is quite good
<ali1234> "several hours battery life" is a flat out lie
<jutnux> They have quite cheap deals imho.
<Supe> as i'll be going to my bosses office/flat on a relatively regular basis
<jutnux> Several hours battery life, whilst in hibernation mode.
<jutnux> Which doesn't even require power as it saves to the HDD.
<jutnux> Supe: System76 have cheap deals in my opinion
<jacobw> US only though
<jutnux> Nah
<jutnux> post to UK
<jutnux> I think
<Supe> hmm
<jacobw> you can pay for shipping, but need to pay by credit card in that case
<Supe> it's been too long since i delved into hardware
<jacobw> which means you need a credit limit of whatever the system you want costs
<ali1234> there is no laptop with high enough specs to do video production adequately
<Supe> is it still cheaper to build your own?
<ali1234> i mean the first thing you need to add is a second monitor
<jutnux> Supe: Yes
<jutnux> Remember kids, the more monitors you have, the bigger your e-peen!
<ali1234> and not some 800x600 slide out thing either
<Supe> jutnux> Remember kids, the more monitors you have, the bigger your e-peen! - just ask Azelphur
<jutnux> How many does he have?
<jutnux> 12?
<ali1234> you can't really run after effects with one monitor
<ali1234> it just doesn't work
<ali1234> maybe if you had a really high resolution
<Supe> if i wanted to biuld a desktop - but i have no idea what hw components would work with each other, what do you recommend?  I'd be happy to shell out about 1500-2000 mabe if the machine was good enough
<jutnux> Speaking of home entertainment servers I built one for my Dad.
<ali1234> get a dell and customize it
<jutnux> Supe: Dell
<jutnux> Damnit, inb4ed.
<Supe> dell.co.uk?
<jutnux> Yeah
<ali1234> not alienware
<AlanBell> get something quiet
<jutnux> Dell is pretty cheap
<ali1234> don't buy anything with blue LEDs and fins
<jutnux> No point in getting lights
<jutnux> or making the inside of the case look nice
<ali1234> the good stuff has understanded cases
<ali1234> look in the small business section
<ali1234> dell precision
<Supe> hmm
<Supe> would they be workable to run as a htpc if i wanted to?
<ali1234> no
<Supe> i.e. if i ran it as a second partition for xbmclive
<ali1234> if you don't mind that it's huge
<Supe> meh, not what i want then - i'd love a desktop for work at the office (which is at my place), but i'd need it to run as a htpc when I need/want it to as well
<ali1234> basically what you should do is look at the configuration sheet for this dell and then just buy all those parts from ebuyer and put it together yourself
<Supe> size is not a problem for me - i don't care if it's huge
<Supe> hmm
<Supe> but if it can't really run as a htpc - it won't work for me
<jutnux> Supe: What do you define as a htpc?
<ali1234> for a decent workstation you are looking at Â£5000
<Supe> i can run xbmclive, run any media effortlessly to my tv/ps3, store all my media etc.
<ali1234> from dell
<ali1234> and that's including a proper monitor
<Supe> can you define workstation?
<Supe> over a desktop?
<ali1234> yeah, a machine that can do anything
<Supe> fair enough
<ali1234> a machine that never runs out of ram or goes slow when you're doing something
<ali1234> so 12GB, quad core xeon
<ali1234> 24" monitor
<Supe> if i'm running games, media, production, gfx editing etc. - is a workstation recommended, or is it overkill?
<Supe> I genuinely don't know and i'm trying to learn - don't think i'm trolling or anything
<ali1234> also a high end nvidia card
<ali1234> what kind of media are you producing?
<ali1234> are you doing video? SD or HD?
<reaper4334> it probably is overkill, but I know I would if I could afford it
<Supe> video - sd and hd
<Supe> also music production
<ali1234> hmm if i take off that high end 3d card it's only Â£2112
<Supe> don't care about 3d
<Supe> my tv is 3d, but it just looks crap to me
<ali1234> yes you do
<Supe> i care about 3d
<ali1234> you can't run any modern operating system without 3c acceleration
<Supe> wow, you have 1337 jedi mind skills :P
<Supe> ah
<Supe> ok
<Supe> i've just reinstalled windows
<Supe> how do i reinstall the grub bootloader or whatever
<Supe> i don't have any option to go into linux/ubuntu - just boots straight to windows
<ali1234> you need to boot the livecd
<jutnux> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<Supe> fml, i did it on a usb stick, and my usb stick doens't have it on any more
<jutnux> brb coffee time
<Supe> ok, no problem
<Supe> what's the name of the software that boots to a usb stick?
<AlanBell> unetbootin?
<Supe> that's it
<Supe> thanks
<reaper4334> or there's Universal USB Installer which I think is a little bit simpler http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/
<jutnux> back
<jutnux> Hahhahaha, slowly converting a friend to Ubuntu
<Supe> long time windows user?
<jutnux> Pretty much
<jutnux> Going round his tomorrow to work on his server for him
<Supe> i think the main thign that converts people
<Supe> if commands like apt-get update and apt-get install appeals to them
<Supe> i love it - so much easier and quicker than windows stuff
<Supe> if people take to that - ubuntu is a done deal i reckon
<jutnux> if the target is in the repositories
<Supe> for the most part, as long as you google, read and follow directions - adding repositiories aint that difficult - for the most part, you just copy and past terminal commands
<Supe> *paste
<jutnux> You don't learn by C&Ping
<jutnux> Better off typing them outy
<jutnux> or that's how I see it ;)
<Supe> haha
<Supe> i do read them
<AlanBell> the GUI tools are pretty good
<Supe> and i am picking up the way terminal commands work (slowly)
<ali1234> C and Ping?
<Supe> kfk
<Supe> ...
<Supe> *if i'm formatting a drive on windows for boot - is it best NTFS or FAT32?
<ali1234> install windows first
<Supe> i'm on windows
<Supe> i'm using my bro's laptop for all this
<ali1234> then don't format any linux drives from windows
<ali1234> theinstaller does it all for you
<Supe> but i need to do so so i can reinstall the bootgrub
<jutnux> what
<ali1234> oh you mean the usb flash drive?
<jutnux> just use a liveUSB
<Supe> yeah
<jutnux> oh
<ali1234> fat32
<Supe> that's what i'm doing
<Supe> thanks :P
<ali1234> ntfs won't work for that
<Supe> i probably could have worded that better to be fair
<Supe> will i need to download the whole ISO
<jutnux> yup
<Supe> or will that 25mb minimal ubuntu thing be enough?
<jutnux> Download the whole ISO and keep it on the Memory stick
<ali1234> the minimal is enough if you know what you are doing
<jutnux> Basically a problem fixing swiss army knife
<Supe> it's a 32gb memory stick, it'd be a waste
<Supe> i'll do so one day
<jutnux> Oh
<jutnux> Partition it?
<jutnux> I think you can do that.
<Supe> and no, i don't know what i'm doing - so i'll get the full one
<ali1234> you can copy other files onto a live usb drive
<Supe> meh, too much hassle
<Supe> can you?
<ali1234> of course
<ali1234> it just puts some files on to it
<Supe> screw it - i'll worry about it later, i've just cleaned about 28gb from it
<Supe> full ISO it is then
<ali1234> as long as it is fat32 and has 1 gb free it's good
<ali1234> with unetbootin anyway
<ali1234> you could always burn it on a cd as well
<Supe> i tried burning to a cd, did 3 cd burns
<Supe> not one of them worked
<ali1234> probably bios issues
<Supe> crashed at different poitns
<ali1234> dunno then
<Supe> usb stick works well enough
<ali1234> it's better
<ali1234> you just end up with piles of CDRs
<Supe> i'll just buy a really cheap usb stick 1gb, and just use that for ISO booting
<ali1234> go to computer shows, get them for free
<Supe> (I have piles of CD/DVD's, none of them are marked - i've no idea if it's got OSX, windows, porn or whatever on)
<jutnux> pfft
<jutnux> I might make a video called booting windows
<jutnux> which is really kicking it into a bonfire]
<jutnux> I have no use for CDs anymore
<Supe> for the most part, i rarely use them
<Supe> if i can i just use virtual cd's/dvd drives
<Supe> far easier and does the job just as well, without the hassle
<Supe> but sometimes, needs must
<jutnux> Coffee <3
<jutnux> Wish Costa delivered
<jutnux> I have to live off of insta-coffee
<Supe> don't any of the coffee chains do deliveries?
<jutnux> Not that I know of.
<Supe> I'd have thought they'd do so within say a 3-4 mile radius
<jutnux> Not here, anyway.
<Supe> where's here?
<Supe> :P
<jutnux> Norfolk
<jutnux> And not at this time of night ;-)
<Supe> there's a potential business market here....
<jutnux> Wouldn't make a profit
<Supe> how much would you pay extra to have a costa coffee or starbucks (or whatever) delivered to your door?
<Supe> and it'd be hot etc.
<Supe> many sandwich shops do free delivery
<Supe> and the food is very cheap
<Nafallo> Â£0
<Nafallo> I'm not that bloody lazy
<Supe> so it must cost them money to do so
<Supe> what if it was at this time of night Nafallo?
<Supe> and you were desperate for a lovely costa coffee....
<Nafallo> then I would know better than to drink coffee :-)
<Supe> bleh
<Supe> be like that then
<Nafallo> I will!
<jacobw> kebabs ftw
<Supe> any of you have an nzb-reader preference? or is Sabnzbd+ the general favourite?
<The_Fred> hello
<Nafallo> hmm. anyone knows if London City Airport still have free liquid bags?
<The_Fred> Im creating an android app to remote control my pc, how can i capture the data from a socket?
<jacobw> Nafallo: its an odd question
<jacobw> Nafallo: i have no idea
<ctuser> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-07
<Supe> hey ctuser
<Nafallo> jacobw: stanstead have started charging for them, the evil bastards.
<Nafallo> I had to smuggle my contacts in some deep pocket of my bag last time.
<jutnux> The_Fred: #android
<jutnux> Anyways, now going all, bye.
<jacobw> Nafallo: that is evil :(
<jacobw> bye jutnux
<Supe> see ya jutnux
<Supe> thanks for help
<The_Fred> jutnux, thanks, but i've got the android side up and running (reding sensors, sending button click events, etc, its how to capture the data on ubuntu that has me stumped for now
<Supe> guys
<Supe> if i'm doing a boot repair, would you recommend terminal or graphical?
<Supe> this is for my dual boot etc.
<jacobw> erm
<jacobw> what is giving you the choice?
<Supe> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RecoveringUbuntuAfterInstallingWindows
<jacobw> terminal is easier
<Supe> ok cool
<Supe> is this likely to erase my current ubuntu installation?
<ali1234> no
<Supe> i've not touched the partitions when installing windows - oly my windows
<Supe> great
<Supe> do i want to repair the swap or linux partition?
<ali1234> the linux partition
<Supe> thanks
<Supe> says error - can't find a device for /boot/grub - is /dev mounted?
<Supe> i did -  "sudo grub-install /dev/sda5"
<Supe> any ideas?
<Supe> i can do a pastebin if it helps
<ubuntubhoy> the easy way is this in terminal
<ubuntubhoy> sudo mount /dev/sdaX /mnt
<ubuntubhoy> sudo mount --bind /proc /dev/proc
<ubuntubhoy> sudo mount --bind /sys /dev/sys
<ubuntubhoy> sudo mount --bind /dev /dev/dev
<ubuntubhoy> sudo chroot /mnt
<ubuntubhoy> sudo grub-install /dev/sda
<Supe> on the second line - it says /dev/proc does not exist
<ubuntubhoy> sudo update-grub
<ubuntubhoy> dont know what you have done to this point, so you may need to reboot
<Supe> so far
<Supe> i've just put in liveusb
<Supe> terminal
<Supe> sudo fdisk -l
<Supe> and then your first line you gave me
<ubuntubhoy> K
<ubuntubhoy> oops
<ubuntubhoy> change the /dev/ to /mnt/
<Supe> pastebin.ubuntu.com/795495
<ubuntubhoy> sudo mount --bind /proc /mnt/proc
<ubuntubhoy> etc
<Supe> ah
<Supe> that's going through now so far, thanks
<Supe> putting the rest int
<Supe> in
<Supe> ah
<Supe> encountered an error
<Supe> let me pastebin it
<Supe> pastebin.ubuntu.com/795503
<ubuntubhoy> thats fine
<ubuntubhoy> your good to reboot
<Supe> oh, it's worked?
<Supe> i haven't done the sudo update-grub
<Supe> should i do that right?
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<Supe> ok
<Supe> lets see if this works
<Supe> while i was downloading ubuntu i got my gfx driver all installed on windows - so i'm hoping this all works perfectly now - both OS
<Supe> thanks ubuntubhoy - it looks to have worked, grub bootloader there now
<Supe> you're a legend :)
<ubuntubhoy> nope
<ubuntubhoy> I have just made an arse of it that many times myself
<ubuntubhoy> I know the getout code now :D
<Supe> haha
<awilkins> I used to keep multiple partitions on a USB stick
<awilkins> One FAT32 to swap files back and forth, then a LiveCD
<awilkins> You have to put the FAT32 first because Windows figures "USB stick, only has one partition on it, oh, this isn't a filesystem I know, derp, derp"
<directhex> not only windows that does that. PS3 will only use first partition on usb
<Supermanintights> I did something similar
<Supermanintights> I used to just set the fat32 to drive a:/ and the ps3 recognised it, as my other partition was NTFS - drive J:/
<Seeker`> morning
<popey> Good morning all.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> et al.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Sounds nice - The OLPC XO 3.0 to be launched next week at CES: http://www.powermanagementdesignline.com/electronics-news/4234013/Marvell-and-One-Laptop-per-Child-Unveil-the-XO-3-0-Tablet
<mungojerry> morning
<mungojerry> i think somebody just let the cat out of the bag regarding canonicals surprise for CES
 * popey wonders where
<popey> mungojerry: interesting âº
<popey> mungojerry: care to elaborate?
<mungojerry> popey, bbc article re ces, wanna link
<popey> ya
<popey> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136
<mungojerry> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136
<mungojerry> yarp
<popey> âº
<popey> thanks for that
<popey> not sure it says anything we didnt already say does it?
<mungojerry> It has made the leap to promote an early prototype of a Ubuntu-based connected television as well as to show off the netbooks and laptops normally associated with its code.
<mungojerry> hadn.t heard any concrete mention of actual device previously
<mungojerry> especially alongside quotes from jane silber
<mungojerry> we.ve all seen mockups of various bits and bobs, maybe i.m readin
<mungojerry> too literally
<popey> interesting
<ubuntubhoy> need some help guys - I have a netbook with messed up a partition table after recovering with testdisk
<ubuntubhoy> gparted wont read it as it says that the extended patition goes beyond the end of the disk
<ubuntubhoy> I want to wipe the lot apart from 1 data partition
<ubuntubhoy> whats the best way to set about it
<ubuntubhoy> also cant copy to an external device
<AlanBell> so what is running on that? http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/57717000/jpg/_57717084_ubuntuwebbook3.jpg
<ubuntubhoy> the question has changed, how do I delete an extended partition and all the logical partitions within from the terminal ?
<ubuntubhoy> leaving any preceeding primary partitions intact
<dwatkins> carefully ;)
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<dwatkins> seriously, you can use fdisk or gparted, assuming either understands the partition table (i.e. if it's not GPT)
<ubuntubhoy> am I best clearing the table with testdisk & only adding the primary parts back
<ubuntubhoy> dwatkins, gparted wont read it
<dwatkins> I'd get the partition mountable you want to copy data from, make two copies and wipe the disk.
<dwatkins> ubuntubhoy: how about fdisk?
<ubuntubhoy> it reads it fine
<dwatkins> ok cool, then you can manipulate it with fdisk in theory
<ubuntubhoy> but iirc it will only delete the logical, not the extended
<dwatkins> I don't remember fdisk having that restriction.
<ubuntubhoy> when I list it only shows primary & logical
<ubuntubhoy> not the extended container
<ubuntubhoy> infact your right
<ubuntubhoy> just checked again
<ubuntubhoy> that should do it
<dwatkins> cool
<dwatkins> always have two copies of anything important
<ubuntubhoy> looking at it too long without actually reading
<dwatkins> I know the feeling :)
<ubuntubhoy> will copy the data to a primary part before the extended
<ubuntubhoy> wipe the rest & re-install everything
<dwatkins> I'd strongly suggest putting it on a separate device and backing up externally to somewhere in another building/town/solar system if possible
<dwatkins> you never know...
<ubuntubhoy> if I had the option it would make the whole thing a load easier
<dwatkins> can't you can an internet connection from the machine?
<ubuntubhoy> the really importent stuff is on my dropbox account
<dwatkins> ok cool
<ubuntubhoy> but there is some other stuff that would be 'handy' to hold onto
<ubuntubhoy> but not vital
<dwatkins> there's also wetransfer.com for temporary storage, if you're desperate
<dwatkins> although it's meant for sending files, it can take a single file up to 2 GB.
<ubuntubhoy> internet aint the best here
<ubuntubhoy> would take a life time for 30G
<dwatkins> ah I see
<dwatkins> I was surprised how small 16 GB USB flash drives can be, practically the size of the port plus 4mm
<occupy64k> I'm running my entire web site off of a 16GB flash drive
<occupy64k> Makes it easy to create backups
<dwatkins> I used to run my server off a 4GB CF card in an IDE adapter.
<dwatkins> indeed, occupy64k
<dwatkins> also, nice nickname ;)
<occupy64k> thanks
<dwatkins> who needs more than 640k...
<occupy64k> well I'm still not using the whole 16GB and there's plenty of headroom remaining
<dwatkins> I'm looking forward to getting a Raspberry Pi and running it off a small flash drive.
<dwatkins> What services do you run on the machine, occupy64k? Just apache?
<occupy64k> No, many things.  Mediawiki, bitcoin, bookmarks, calendar, taskwarrior, FTP, photos
<dwatkins> neat
<occupy64k> and email
<occupy64k> with Roundcube
<dwatkins> I liked the look of Roundcube when I looked into it.
<occupy64k> It's ok.  Not as many features as gmail, but I don't need all those things
<dwatkins> My new server is a flash-based netbook, its / has 16 GB
<occupy64k> My lesson from the last couple of years is that it's easy to run your own server, and provides many benefits
<dwatkins> this reminds me, I have a minimalist homepage to update :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<dwatkins> how goes it?
<brobostigon> dwatkins:  not so good, about the same yesterday, my eczema isnt better, and still feeling ill. and you?
<dwatkins> bah and bah, I can relate to that a little as I have very dry skin on my hands and have just gotten over a really lengthy cold
<brobostigon> ok.
<dwatkins> a nurse friend of mine reccomended Hydromol, it's waxy but seems to help.
<dwatkins> moving to Scotland seems to have completely dried-out my knuckles
<TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: Stop dragging them along the ground when you walk ;-)
<dwatkins> lol, oook
<brobostigon> dwatkins: my creams are all ointment like, so very similer.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm off to replace the door mirror on my Volvo. Seems a bit moot now that someone drove into the other door and fscked the wing too. Car will probably a write-off when they examine it in a week. :-(
<dwatkins> my brother avoids orange juice as he believes it's a trigger
<dwatkins> bah, TheOpenSourcerer :(
<bigcalm> Miss-read as "he believes it's a tiger"
<dwatkins> rawr
<bigcalm> Morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm :)
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: doesn't sound terribly hard to fix
<brobostigon> dwatkins: in theory, any of my allergies including weather, could trigeer, inclusive of state of mind.
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: hassle them to give you Cat C or Cat D writeoff and sell it back to you
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: you'll *probably* get it back for scrap value or a little more, and get your insurance payout
<gordonjcp> then you just stick another door and wing on from a scrappy
<dwatkins> hey bigcalm
<kvarley> Which tool should I use to filter the output of ifconfig to show only the local ip address of eth0? I have heard of awk, is that an appropriate tool?
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: then what you do is every time you look out your window at your repaired car sitting on the driveway you think "haha, up yours, insurance company!"
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: you shouldn't parse ifconfig output
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: maybe "ip addr" output
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: but ifconfig is obsolete
<popey> +1
<dwatkins> is there a simpler way than parsing "ip addr", MartijnVdS?
<dwatkins> e.g. something in /proc which just returns the IP address
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: maybe
 * dwatkins does a grep -R
<MartijnVdS> /proc/net/fib_trie has something
<MartijnVdS> Doing the same ioctls/syscalls as "ip" does isn't an option I guess :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Found this nice little bit of code online =] "ifconfig | sed -n -e 's/:127\.0\.0\.1 //g' -e 's/ *inet addr:\([0-9.]\+\).*/\1/gp'"
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: ifconfig is obsolete, and won't show all IP addresses on the interface if there are more
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Hmmm, what would be the "best" way?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: what do you want to know, and why? :)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I'm thinking of the need to find out the current IP address from bash, I guess looking up the current hostname might be an option
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: that might not match
<TheOpenSourcerer> gordonjcp: What's Cat C/D mean?
<dwatkins> Yeah, I was just thinking the same, MartijnVdS
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: My local IP address so I can SSH/SSHFS/SCP in from my netbook when the .local domain name doesn't work
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I suspect I could use python to get it =]
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: cat C is that is not badly damaged but uneconomical to repair
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: ie. the parts and labour would be too expensive
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: reverse tunnel ;)
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: 1 second while I look that up
<TheOpenSourcerer> That sounds about right - The car's probably only worth ~Â£1k
<dwatkins> kvarley: does your router not use the machine's hostname?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: http://www.howtoforge.com/reverse-ssh-tunneling
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: cat D is that it *is* economically viable to repair it, but there is some other factor that makes it not viable
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: if it's a bolt-on wing then you can change it in about half an hour
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, someone can. Not me ;-)
<popey> heh
<popey> was about to say that âº
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dunno if a 98/9 V70 has bolt-on wings or not.
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: can you open up a PC case to fix things?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh Yes.
<gordonjcp> well then
<gordonjcp> same thing
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bit different.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cars are dirty and big.
<gordonjcp> yeah, you're using a 10mm socket instead of a philips screwdriver
<gordonjcp> open up the bonnet and see if there's a little line of bolts in the channel at the edge of the bonnet opening
<TheOpenSourcerer> And you have to scrabble around on cold concrete floors.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Rather give someone money to that kind of thing.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/do
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mind you I have just managed to replace the door mirror without breaking the replacement or me ;-)
<gordonjcp> fair enough
<gordonjcp> also it's more ecologically friendly to keep your old car going than it is to buy a new one
<dwatkins> I thought if the insurance company wrote off a car it meant they will never insure it again.
<gordonjcp> no matter what you drive, it takes a lot more energy to make a car than it will ever use in its lifetime
<TheOpenSourcerer> Indeed it is, but mine does drink petrol like
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: nope
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: evens o
<gordonjcp> *even so
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's a 2.4L Turbo and a big and heavy car.
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: you need a truly collossal amount of energy to smelt all the steel
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'd like to get something a big smaller/more economical. The wifey wants a 7 seater people/child mover.
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: wee diesel mpv then ;-)
<occupy64k> Do you have 7 moving children?
<TheOpenSourcerer> we need 2 cars. Currently an A Class and my Volvo.
<gordonjcp> TheOpenSourcerer: if you're going to get a diesel car get a French one
<gordonjcp> they've been at it longer than everyone else
<gordonjcp> except maybe Mercedes
<TheOpenSourcerer> occupy64k: Nah but we have 2 and she does school runs and list shares.
<TheOpenSourcerer> There are some pretty good lease deals on new Mercs right now...
<occupy64k> With fuel costs as they are it makes sense to minimize redundant seats
<TheOpenSourcerer> Quite fancy the idea of a Golf TDi though.
<gordonjcp> I like my Mercedes Vito
<gordonjcp> although it's getting replaced with a CitroÃ«n Dispatch later this month
 * popey hugs his V70 diesel
<TheOpenSourcerer> Our A class has been a good and reliable car. Mind you so has the Volvo. Both are about 10yr old now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> what kind of mpg do you get popey ?
 * Laney hugs his 18 speed hybrid
<TheOpenSourcerer> Try taking wife, 2 kids and a car full of baggage on that though Laney
<Laney> nah, they just have their own + panniers
<Laney> the fun of the cycle touring holiday /o\
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hmmm...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oooh - Tesco slips up? http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8f98e7ba-38a1-11e1-9d07-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1iltRda7j
<dwatkins> I hear the Nissan Leaf is pretty good, although I'd be concerned about running out of power on a long journey.
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: no idea, 30 something
<popey> i rarely drive it these days now I wfh
<TheOpenSourcerer> dwatkins: Where "long" means 60miles or so.
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: ouch :-/
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: yeah, I can't see me ever finding an electric car to be practical
<dwatkins> I like the idea of electric cars, especially as the batteries can be swapped-out for a fast "recharge" but until the range is at least a couple hundred miles, I guess they won't be so popular.
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: You still interested in a community workspace idea? Might need to talk about it a bit more over a beer sometime.
<popey> YES!
<dwatkins> I'm lucky - my drive to work is about 4.5 miles, but I have no way of charging an electric car as I live in a 3rd floor flat. I plan to start cycling this year.
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: you could charge it at work
<popey> 'better way' is the better way to do electric cars
<popey> you dont charge it
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: you could buy a petrol generator to plug it into
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: perhaps, yeah
<popey> you drive into a station and swap batteries
<popey> takes same time as a fuel-up conventional car
<gordonjcp> popey: I can't really see that working
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hydrogen Fuel Cell FTW!
<dwatkins> popey: yeah, I don't believe there's a swapping-station in Edinburgh but yes
<popey> better place, not better way
<popey> dwatkins: yet
<gordonjcp> popey: how do you design a connector that is easy to connect and disconnect, can handle hundreds of volts at hundreds of amps, and remains safe even when being sprayed with salty water?
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3Os25gP4yA
<dwatkins> popey: yeah, I imagine that'll change as petrol and diesel get more expensive
<occupy64k> Those connectors are common in industry
<popey> you dont
<popey> they rip the battery out and put another in
<gordonjcp> popey: right, but *how*
<gordonjcp> there must be some means of connecting it to the rest of the car
<popey> watch the video
<gordonjcp> popey: I tried already, someone else pointed it out
<gordonjcp> is there a transcript or something, or possibly a version in english?
<TheOpenSourcerer> We went to this http://www.ecovelocity.co.uk/ a few months ago. Electric cars are still not ready for prime time IMHO. Fuel Cells will be the way I reckon.
<gordonjcp> maybe, maybe not
<gordonjcp> hydrogen is difficult to handle
<occupy64k> There are losses in electrolysis
<gordonjcp> it leaks out of everything you put it in
<TheOpenSourcerer> so is petrol.
<gordonjcp> gas is the future
<dwatkins> TheOpenSourcerer: fuel cells would be great, yeah
<dwatkins> I read about a fuel cell which uses tiny pieces of iron to store power somehow
<TheOpenSourcerer> Places like Iceland can create Hydrogen at virtual zero cost (in energy).
<dwatkins> The Hydrogen capital of the world...
<TheOpenSourcerer> A few years ago that was their plan.
<gordonjcp> popey: I can't actually see anything in that video that shows how they change the batteries
<TheOpenSourcerer> I need to wash out all my pots this weekend and prepare for the great Chilli Sowing :-D
<popey> gordonjcp: it shows them dropping the battery out the bottom of the car and a door closing
<gordonjcp> popey: yup
<gordonjcp> I don't trust it to be safe
<gordonjcp> it doesn't show how the electrical connections are made
<AlanBell> looks like they are made by the car inside the closed compartment
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: yeah
<gordonjcp> I don't like the look of that
<AlanBell> or it might be inside the battery
<AlanBell> so the car might latch to the connectors while they are off, then the battery internally makes them live
<gordonjcp> yeah, but then they're still live when they're dangling under the car
<gordonjcp> getting sprayed with salty water as you drive on wet slushy roads
<AlanBell> it is a closed compartment
<popey> they've changed the design a lot since the first generation of that car
<popey> previous videos had a massive flat battery that covered most of the underside of the car
<popey> and they never had a closing door before
<popey> also the battery charge stations are powered by renewable electricity
<dwatkins> heh that video gives me adverts for the Nissan Leaf
<gordonjcp> gas is the answer
<gordonjcp> we're never going to run out of it
<dwatkins> I thought gas was similarly limited as oil.
<gordonjcp> oil running out is going to be a problem for electric cars
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: no, you can always make more
<dwatkins> oh cool, so we just use geothermal energy and solar/wind power to make gas...
<gordonjcp> once oil gets scarce, electric cars are going to be just as stuck as fossil fuel driven ones
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: mostly I'd use cows...
<dwatkins> how come, gordonjcp? because electricity has to be generated somehow?
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: no, because where are you going to get lubricating oils and plastic components from?
<occupy64k> there is plenty of untapped hydrothermal energy
<dwatkins> ah yes, plastics etc. are also an issue - I guess we'd best start recycling the great pacific garbage patch with bacteria.
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: yup
<gordonjcp> dwatkins: an electric car takes just as much energy to make as a petrol car
<ubuntubhoy> wish me luck - time to re-boot and delete these bloody partitions
<gordonjcp> and that's the *real* energy cost
<dwatkins> I read about a kid who developed a bacteria to do this, not heard of any commercial projects yet.
<gordonjcp> the fuel it takes is irrelevant
<dwatkins> hope all goes well, ubuntubhoy
<dwatkins> gordonjcp: yeah, and I guess solar/wind don't make up for oil by a long way
<occupy64k> electric vehicles can also be very durable, since electric motors are simple and easy to recondition
<dwatkins> less moving parts, I imagine.
<occupy64k> far less
<dwatkins> no explosions
<occupy64k> with brushless motors very little friction
<gordonjcp> occupy64k: yes, they can be nearly as durable as diesel engines
<jacobw> morning
<danfish> afternoon
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ds43EFwOcM
<popey> looks really painfully slow
<jacobw> the hour is not after noon
<jacobw> <1pm is morning :)
<danfish> in 1884 when the internal combustion engine was invented, there was an absolute flurry of tweets about the poor range of the engine, reliability etc. I've got the IRC logs somewhere..
<jacobw> hahaha
<danfish> popey was very vocal even then :D
<danfish> seriously, electricity via renewables will come to be the answer by the middle of the century. Maybe with a smattering of fusion (if anyone can get it to work). More solar energy hits the planet's surface every hour than the world uses in a month
<MartijnVdS> .. atm
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<jacobw> world being humans?
<jacobw> i think the trees would be unhappy if we stole their solar energy :p
<danfish> jacobw: yes, americans included ;)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: World being earth
<danfish> crops/trees are a pretty efficient way of using solar energy
<MartijnVdS> danfish: so.. throw another log on the fire, I want to pass that car?
<popey> punch trees
<danfish> but then we run out of food growing space....
<gordonjcp> danfish: the thing is, electric cars have been around since before IC-engined cars
<gordonjcp> danfish: and they're still not really much better than they were 50 years ago
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: but only now is battery tech really improving
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: but that's only half the battle
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: thanks in part to mobile devices (phones), but also Big Money is now behing electric cars
<gordonjcp> you've still got to charge the batteries, and that's always going to take ages
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Big caps instead of batteries then?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: doesn't help
<gordonjcp> the problem is not what you store the electricity in
<gordonjcp> the problem is that you have to move electricity around
<danfish> and that's a problem how?
<MartijnVdS> We have a huge infrastructure for that
<MartijnVdS> it might need upgrades
<MartijnVdS> but power infrastructure is a solved problem
<gordonjcp> no, you're not quite getting the scale of it
<gordonjcp> a gallon of diesel contains about 40kWh of energy
<gordonjcp> to transfer that energy takes about a minute
<danfish> local generation of energy mustn't be overlooked
<gordonjcp> you tip a 1-gallon container into the tank of your car, that's you dumped 40kWh of energy in
<gordonjcp> 40kW off the mains would be 166A
<gordonjcp> so you'd need to charge your battery off 240V mains for an hour at 166A
<gordonjcp> okay, the electric car is going to turn more of that energy into motion
<MartijnVdS> So more V
<danfish> or three phase
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: okay, so then you're talking about say 2.4kV at 16A
<gordonjcp> this is still not nice
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Check out how Nissan's Leaf charges..
<MartijnVdS> Charging an electric car overnight or while you're at work is a more viable option than having a tanker car refilling every car in the street every night
<MartijnVdS> so you wouldn't need as many or as much roadside recharging
<danfish> http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2011/03/24/quick-charge-battery-developments/
<gordonjcp> it'll be interesting to see how many charge/discharge cycles that can withstand
<danfish> I'm running a honda civic that's done 80,000 and is more than capable of getting to 150,000. I fully intend to drive it as far as I can, and by then I fully expect an electric car for the journeys I do to be the norm
<MartijnVdS> I seldom drive more than an hour away
<danfish> who is it who does a podcast from his civic?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I seldom drive *less* than an hour away
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: So we have different use-cases. Maybe the car market needs to "split" into "Long-distance" and "short-distance" cars
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: my daily commute to work and back is about half an hour each way, but most days I go there for a quick meeting and a coffee, and then go and drive a couple of hundred miles
<danfish> Dave Yates from tllts
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: exactly
<MartijnVdS> I love my Smart ;)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm being deliberately contentious because I get annoyed by the "everyone should drive an electric car" brigade
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: an electric car will never really be able to cope with my requirements
<danfish> gordonjcp: can you actually be sure that that will always be the case?
<occupy64k> Never is a strong term
<gordonjcp> danfish: pretty much
<gordonjcp> I can easily put 1000 miles on my van in a week
<occupy64k> Computers wil never need more than 640K
 * MartijnVdS invents cold fusion, small enough to put on the roof of  gordonjcp's car
<danfish> I have to disagree and will place that in the "there will be world need for four computers" pile :D
<gordonjcp> danfish: <shrug>
<gordonjcp> danfish: where I live there is very little public transport and the sites I work on are within a radius of several hundred miles
<occupy64k> Aeroplanes will never play a decisive role in any future war
<gordonjcp> danfish: if I didn't do the job I'm using now, I'd most likely move back up north where there is *no* public transport and everything is even further apart
<gordonjcp> people who live in cities don't need cars *at all*
<gordonjcp> well, assuming they also work in the same city
<MartijnVdS> Oop Norf ;)
<gordonjcp> even then they're likely within easy reach of public transport
<gordonjcp> even as far south as maybe yorkshire there's good public transport links
<danfish> gordonjcp: It will be a gradual process I suspect. I'm still waiting for my flying car ;)
<daubers> Afternoon
<danfish> o/
<gordonjcp> danfish: I don't see how car manufacturers are going to solve the oil problem
<danfish> daubers: saw your mqtt bzr thing, nice
<gordonjcp> danfish: maybe thermal depolymerisation of plastics to make the oils and greases?
<danfish> gordonjcp: oils from vegetables?
<gordonjcp> danfish: no good as lubricants
<danfish> gordonjcp: if polymerised?
<gordonjcp> they go off and just turn into gluey yuck
<gordonjcp> I'm sure there's a way to do it, but it might not be very energy-efficient ;-)
<occupy64k> fossil oil isn't going away any time soon.  It will just become more expensive, to the point where it's no longer economical to burn.
<gordonjcp> engine oil lasts a lot longer when you run on gas, which is a good start
<danfish> do you think I can port debian to run on the civic?
<gordonjcp> danfish: depends what's in the various ECUs
<daubers> danfish: Fun toy if nothing else
<gordonjcp> I wouldn't be surprised if some of the body ECUs in cars ran some sort of Linux
<penguin42> hmm, I would - I'd hope all the ECU code is safety-critical approved
<AlanBell> that doesn't exclude Linux
<kvarley> Wine - Error loading font! (tahoma.ttf) - Any ideas?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Has Linux got that level of approval on anything?
<Seeker`> penguin42: He doesn't mean car ECUs are running ubuntu
<penguin42> Seeker`: I don't mean a distro - I mean even the kernel
<AlanBell> not sure that an ECU needs that much code, more arduino level stuff, and I don't know that much about safety certs, I know a bit about QS9000 in automobile sector
<jacobw> linux 2.4 is probably still used in some embedded things
<AlanBell> government security certification isn't on products but on complete solutions
<AlanBell> !info msttcorefonts | kvarley
<lubotu3> kvarley: 'oneiric' is not a valid distribution: hardy, hardy-backports, hardy-proposed, jaunty, jaunty-backports, jaunty-proposed, karmic, karmic-backports, karmic-proposed, kubuntu-backports, kubuntu-experimental, kubuntu-updates, lucid, lucid-backports, lucid-proposed, maverick, maverick-backports, maverick-proposed, medibuntu, natty, natty-backports, natty-proposed, partner, stable, testing, unstable
<AlanBell> dammit
<AlanBell> !info cheese
<kvarley> AlanBell: Thanks, I resorted to copying the fonts from my windows install partition
<kvarley> AlanBell: For some reason I hadn't installed them the usual way on this distro
<directhex> better to nick them from windows anyway
<directhex> msttcorefonts are ancient versions with most unicode missing
<palnj> anyone home?
<MartijnVdS> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<daubers> palnj: Hello
<popey> moo
 * daubers starts to win with c++ and makefiles
 * MartijnVdS weeps for daubers 
 * penguin42 hands daubers a type 6 template ahmmer
<MartijnVdS> + sanity
<penguin42> hammer
<daubers> It's only taken me a couple of hours to understand wth is going on with it :D
<penguin42> daubers: What was the problem?
<AlanBell> !info cheese
<lubotu3> cheese (source: cheese): tool to take pictures and videos from your webcam. In component universe, is optional. Version 3.2.0-0ubuntu2 (oneiric), package size 45 kB, installed size 320 kB
<AlanBell> oneiric version number \o/
<MartijnVdS> \o/ smart boy
<MartijnVdS> bot
<AlanBell> !gender
 * penguin42 expected a commentary about wensledale
<lubotu3> yes, I can confirm I am a female bot :)
<MartijnVdS> hmm cheese
<daubers> penguin42: That I've never tought myself how to do it properly
 * AlanBell still has a pot of stilton from christmas
 * daubers still has half a wheel of bree from christmas
<MartijnVdS> Brie, I hope
<daubers> Thats the welly
<palnj> !hello
<palnj> !bot
<lubotu3> Hi! I'm #ubuntu-uk's favorite infobot, you can search my brain yourself at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi | Usage info: http://ubottu.com/devel/wiki/Plugins | Bot channels and general info: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/Bots
<palnj> !bye
<lubotu3> Au revoir!
<palnj> !bot
<palnj> !help
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<palnj> !question
<palnj> !users
<lubotu3> To add new users to your Ubuntu system, follow the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AddUsersHowto - For administrative privileges, users need to be made members of the group "admin" - See !sudo
<palnj> !yum
<lubotu3> Uh, don't you mean !apt ?
<palnj> !rpm
<lubotu3> RPM is the RedHat Package Management system. Ubuntu uses !APT, not RPM. RPM packages are not supported (the package "alien" can allow installing them, but it's quite dangerous and unsupported)
<Azelphur> palnj: If you want to play with the bot, please take it to a PM
<palnj> Azelphur: fine...
<palnj> kinda quiet today, isn't it?
<Azelphur> indeed
<AlanBell> palnj: also you can have a look at http://ubottu.com/factoids.cgi to see the stuff it says
<palnj> ah cool
<Supermanintights> hey guys, i've just plugged in my vga cable to my monitor, set it up for twinview on nvidia x server settings, but my mouse won't let me go onto my second screen
<Supermanintights> any suggestions?
<Azelphur> Supermanintights: did you just hit apply, or save it to X config?
<Supermanintights> ern
<Supermanintights> i did apply first, it went weird and the timer ran out before it settled, then i pressed save to x config, followed instructions, then clicked apply
<Azelphur> try save to X config, then reboot.
<Supermanintights> well i've done save to x config
<Supermanintights> reboot then?
<Supermanintights> this is why i hated ubuntu last time with all this messing about with dual screens :(
<Supermanintights> brb
<Azelphur> yep :P
<Supermanintights> seems to be working now, popped up with an error message at the start, but all good now
<Supermanintights> thanks
<Azelphur> yw :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<Supermanintights> ahola
<AlanBell> czajkowski: \o/
<AlanBell> are you fixed?
<czajkowski> hope so
<jutnux> Evening all
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Tony] It comes before a fall - http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/blog/2012/01/07/it-comes-before-a-fall/
 * jutnux reads
 * popey chuckles
<Azelphur> Does anyone know how much power is safe to draw from a typical home socket?
<BigRedS> 13A generally
<BigRedS> that's what they're fused at
<BigRedS> so (13 * 240)W if you actually want raw power
<Azelphur> so about 3.1kw
<BigRedS> Cooker sockets are 45A IIRC
<moreati> 13 * 230 V
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, 230.
<Azelphur> hehe, I'm going to be cutting it close :x
<BigRedS> what're you doing?
<Azelphur> pondering the idea of upgrading my bitcoin rig a bit
<moreati> 13 A is the maximum fuse value. I'm not 100% sure that's the rated steady state maximum amperage though
<Azelphur> can I just get a bigger fuse and sling it in there?
<Azelphur> Is the limit at the plug or for the entire house? (I'm not at all good at electronics) XD
<directhex> there aren't bigger fuses for BS 1363
<AlanBell> the ring is probably going to trip out at 30A
<danfish> not a good idea. The ring circuit will get very hot
<moreati> and fitting a larger fuse almost certainly breaks the law and your house insurance
<BigRedS> AlanBell: not really. Everything assumes that you've not fiddled with the innerds of the socket
<BigRedS> Er, not AlanBell. Azelphur
<Azelphur> Atm I'm pulling 1.7kw and it's doing ok
<penguin42> 1.7kw is nothing
<Azelphur> yea
<penguin42> Azelphur: That's like 5A
<Azelphur> Atm I've got 8 boards with 8 GPUs, I'm pondering the idea of switching to 2 boards with 14 GPUs
<Azelphur> and some custom cases, \o/
<penguin42> wow, there's some old junk on Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Original-C7986A-Write-Once-Optical/dp/B000093S5M
<Azelphur> penguin42: haha
<danfish> we had an MRI scanner installed at work recently - had to install an electrical substation to power it :/
<Azelphur> so yea, I dunno how much overhead the boards add, but if just assume I'd use the same per card wattage on the new build as I do now, it comes out at almost exactly 3.1kw
<directhex> most ring mains are 30A or 32A max
<Azelphur> I guess It'll be a bit less than that though, as there will be less overhead (less 2 psu's instead of 14 and 2 mobos instead of 14)
<danfish> Azelphur: bare in mind 3.1kw = approcx Â£3100/year in lecci bills
<moreati> I'm having difficulty imagining a PC emitting 3.1 kW of heat and remaining functional
<Azelphur> danfish: I pay 6p/kwh
<Azelphur> danfish: the 1774w I'm currently using comes to about Â£78/mo.
<Azelphur> moreati: that's why it has a dedicated AC :P
<danfish> Azelphur: that's not too bad
<Azelphur> danfish: yea, perks of living in margate I guess (right next to the worlds largest offshore wind farm)
<moreati> I assume your gas/heating bill is lower as a result
<Azelphur> moreati: hehe :)
<Azelphur> gonna be interesting building a case with airflow for 7 GPU's, ahah
<penguin42> why 1 case?
<Azelphur> penguin42: because 1 board?
<penguin42> hmm - Nvidia did some external GPU systems
<moreati> Is the 230 V rating of mains RMS or peak-to-peak?
<penguin42> RMS
<MartijnVdS> Richard M Stallman?
<moreati> root mean square
<Azelphur> penguin42: nvidia isn't very good at SHA256
<moreati> it accounts of the sinsusoidal-ness when calculating power with V * I
<MartijnVdS> moreati: I know what it means, it's just acronym overlap :)
<moreati> MartijnVdS: Ah I missed the silent :) ;)
<Azelphur> Is there any way I can cheat somehow and get more power from somewhere?
<moreati> Though there is an open circuit <-> open source vs GNU-Voltage joke in there :|
<Azelphur> (Should I need it)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Get another rind
<penguin42> g
<Azelphur> how much does that cost to have done?
<penguin42> Azelphur: Ask an electrician, if there is enough room on your existing fuse board then I doubt more than Â£200???
<Azelphur> not too bad
<MartijnVdS> Solar panels, windmills?
<MartijnVdS> "I'm mining bitcoins with the power of NATUREW""
<Azelphur> Haha, I looked into solar and wind but I don't think there's anything I could bring into an apartment that would generate enough power to even put a dent in it
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: I know a guy with a solar powered cluster in australia that is doing that :D
<shauno> a solar powered cluster here would probably take 3 weeks to finish booting :/
<MartijnVdS> shauno: and then shut down for lack of power
<Azelphur> haha
<penguin42> I guess .au has some useful amount of sun
<Azelphur> indeed
<MartijnVdS> Yes, a nice sunny island.. and you shipped your prisoners there instead of your population.. :)
<moreati> MartijnVdS: that's just the story they told us lot who got left behind
<MartijnVdS> moreati: ah yes the deadly animals
<jutnux> Transportation \o/
<popey> ebenink
<popey> stupid screen and its not updating rubbish
<MartijnVdS> thanks for your password :P
<popey> haha
<popey> no, thats me saying evening âº
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<SuperEngineer> heavninks folkies
<moreati> good heaving to you to sir/madam
 * popey has switched on sync to vblank, this may have fix0r3d it
<SuperEngineer> I have a confession to make - I've just spent half a day using LinuxMint - I beg forgiveness ;)
<popey> oh dear
<SuperEngineer> yeah!
<SuperEngineer> ..it's ok - back to Lynx now
<moreati> SuperEngineer: were you under the influence of red kryptonite?
<SuperEngineer> moreati, no - just curious
<SuperEngineer> but it did have ! benefit [for me]
<SuperEngineer> I really liked the "WildMint" theme
<SuperEngineer> well - with a bit of sudo copy - paste.... I have 10.04 runnung the WildMint theme
<SuperEngineer> ...so - dear Mintaholics anonymous.... I am cured of your drug!
<popey> bah, sync didnt fix it
<Seeker`> hallo
 * SuperEngineer thinks... time for some liquid kryptonite
<moreati> SuperEngineer: on minthadone?
<MartijnVdS> Is that a minty fresh version of methadone?
<SuperEngineer> moreati,  ;D
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, superEngineer prefers mints Extra Strong - not soft[ware] ;)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: So.. not methadone?
<SuperEngineer> nah - not even method- done
 * SuperEngineer slaps wrist for slipping back to coding language
 * popey ponders where to file a bug where brightness controls dont work
<MartijnVdS> popey: do they work after a suspend/resume cycle?
<popey> dunno
<popey> should i test after clean boot and after suspend?
<MartijnVdS> because that's how it works on my Sony
<popey> what, they only work after resume for you?
<MartijnVdS> Yes, Fn+F<x> for brightness up/down only work after resuming from suspend :)
<MartijnVdS> not after a clean boot
<MartijnVdS> though I think it might have been fixed in Perfect
<AlanBell> Precise
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I keep mixing them up :)
<AlanBell> one of these to be precise -> http://www.zooborns.com/zooborns/2009/06/ophaned-pangolin-baby.html
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell,  Precise[ly]
<popey> i am on 12.04
<AlanBell> there are no pangolins in any zoos in the UK, and only a couple anywhere in europe
<popey> AlanBell: any in budapest?
<popey> or vienna?
<AlanBell> Leipzig
<penguin42> AlanBell: I guess the brits tend to prefer furry things
<AlanBell> penguin42: things that don't drop dead
<AlanBell> they are very hard to feed apparently
<penguin42> AlanBell: Well, that does help
<SuperEngineer> just seen the BBC article posted by popey  re employer/CES.... nice one
<SuperEngineer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16415136
<popey> yeah, quite excited about it
<SuperEngineer> with good reason
 * penguin42 wonders if an A15 would ever end up in as an old-school package as that
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell,  I am trying so hard not to reply to the "brits tend to prefer furry things" as this is a family friendly channel
<SuperEngineer> ...but awww - you should be on stage!
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<moreati> popey: do you know if this is the first CES Canonical has exhibited at?
<popey> it is AIUI
<popey> we have attended before
<popey> but not had something to show off / had a stand
<AlanBell> first for Canonical, last for Microsoft
<SuperEngineer> - and the above is this years catchphrase
<moreati> AlanBell: you predict that, or they've stated that?
<AlanBell> moreati: they have stated that, they are doing a corporate ragequit
<SuperEngineer> what has offended them this time?
<AlanBell> they won't reschedule CES to line up with Microsoft's release plans
<MartijnVdS> aww poor mS
<MartijnVdS> MS
<SuperEngineer> [or weren't there enough copywrights to be punished if they attend]
<AlanBell> in case you think I am making it up: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/CES-Microsoft-Xbox-Windows-8-Steve-Ballmer,14352.html
<SuperEngineer> Canonical - quit CES now!  they don't match up with Ubuntu release cycle!
<popey> âº
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: yeah, but CES 13.04 will rock!
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell,  ;D
<MartijnVdS> popey: Wow @ that DVD with lots of software
<MartijnVdS> popey: reminds me of the pre-internet 90s when you could buy discs full of shareware
<popey> yeah
<popey> i used to get catalogs sent to me, and I'd order floppies
<popey> one of the first shareware things I bought was a free pascal compiler
<popey> loved that on my Epson 8088 10MHz CPU machine!
<popey> 8086
<jutnux> Floppy Discs \o/
<MartijnVdS> We had an 8088
<MartijnVdS> "G2 Computer Systems"
 * moreati goes misty eyed for the Amiga shareware wysiwyg editor Ami pro something or other
<MartijnVdS> Hercules graphics, 10MHz, Panasonic "IBM Proprinter compatible" printer
<popey> Hercules! You were lucky! I had MDA!
<popey> no graphics at all!
<MartijnVdS> I installed an Soundblaster 2.0 in that one
<MartijnVdS> popey: Awww
<penguin42> this is like the yorkshire coal sketch
 * popey types set BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5
<MartijnVdS> Ours had 2 20MB hard disks
<popey> TWO!
<MartijnVdS> popey: I5, because I7 was already in use by LPT1! :)
<popey> mine had one 10MB disk
<popey> ahhh of course
<gordonjcp> popey: I used to keep signing up for Compuserve and AOL
<moreati> IRQ, DMA and ___?
<MartijnVdS> popey: My dad needed the second one for work
<gordonjcp> popey: never had to buy a floppy, ever
<jutnux> Casually killing a dragon on Skyrim
<MartijnVdS> moreati: H5 means high DMA
<MartijnVdS> moreati: for 16-bit transfers
<gordonjcp> then when they switched to CDs I had plenty of bird scarers for my peas
<popey> âº
<moreati> thanks
<gordonjcp> also
<popey> AlanBell uses kubuntu CD's to entertain his Chickens
<gordonjcp> popey: yeah, I've seen them
<gordonjcp> as I just mentioned in another channel, many many years ago I installed GEM for an Amstrad 1640 on a 20MHz 286
<gordonjcp> with enough memory to run it from RAM disk
<gordonjcp> holy hell that was quick
<gordonjcp> I have never used such a responsive desktop since
 * penguin42 went the Acorn route - BBC Master, then BBC Master with the 186 copro - DOS on that was odd
<AlanBell> the archimedes was a really fast desktop
<MartijnVdS> After that 8088 my dad got a 486 off my uncle
<penguin42> AlanBell: Nod
<MartijnVdS> and I got the 8088.. until it died and I got a 386-SX-25
<popey> XS!
<popey> er
<popey> SX!
<popey> you want the DX my son!
<popey> lubbly jubbly
<moreati> beos is the most responsive desktop I remember using
<MartijnVdS> popey: I was 14! I didn't have money yet :)
<MartijnVdS> not DX money anyway
<moreati> I'd forgotten 386-SX/DX existed, thought only 486 had done that
<MartijnVdS> moreati: 16-bit data bus, for the cheap!
<MartijnVdS> moreati: http://www.reddit.com/r/VXJunkies/
<moreati> MartijnVdS: erm, that makes no sense to me. what is a VX?
<SuperEngineer> thoise would be the days when Peter Norton had the most useful & trusted software tools going
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: yes, lots and lots of two-letter utilities
<MartijnVdS> moreati: It's meaningless treknobabble :)
<MartijnVdS> moreati: and LOTS of it
<moreati> Ah it's a Mornington Crescent variation
<Supermanintights> hey guys, any suggestions on how to change a RAW to NTFS without losing the data?
<MartijnVdS> raw?
<Supermanintights> yeah, i.e. unformatted
<MartijnVdS> if it's unformatted, there is no data to lose
<Supermanintights> basically, I have a 2tb NTFS, with about 1.5tb data on there
<AlanBell> how is there data?
<Supermanintights> however it randomly changed to RAW for no reason, the data is still on there though
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I'd start digging for backups
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights:
<AlanBell> partition table gone?
<Supermanintights> how do i check that AlanBell?
<Supermanintights> and MartijnVdS - i don't have enough free space anywhere to back it up/recover - so i'm hoping to fix it without having to backup/format
<AlanBell> step back a bit, why are you saying it is RAW? where are you seeing that? how do you know the data is there?
<Supermanintights> sec
<Supermanintights> i'll see if i can take screeny
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: no I mean.. I hope you have a backup of that data, because if the partition table goes, you'll probably lose the entire disk
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: If not now, then soon
<Supermanintights> i know data is there because it happened to me before on a differnet HDD - I had to use recovery software on windows, but that took 2 days, and it was just 700gb
 * AlanBell wonders what lessons we can learn from this
<MartijnVdS> Supermanintights: testdisk can find/restore partition tables
<Supermanintights> just plugging hdd in now
<jutnux> Did you not learn to backup most important bits of your data?
<Supermanintights> most of what is on here IS the backup of what I recovered last time
<Supermanintights> it happened a few weeks later
<AlanBell> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery
<MartijnVdS> this is why I don't buy USB disks anymore :|
<Supermanintights> AlanBell, which aspect of that guide best applies to me?
<Supermanintights> any idea?
<MartijnVdS> https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DataRecovery#Lost_Partition ?
<AlanBell> Supermanintights: no idea at all really, but it looks like an interesting page to read
<AlanBell> so disks contain partitions, there are backups of the partition table scattered over the drive.
<AlanBell> if the whole disk appears to have no partitions then recovering one of the backup partition tables sounds like a good idea
<AlanBell> if one partition appears to have no filesystem in it then it is a different issue
<Supermanintights> hmm, why/how can it just go from working ntfs to RAW as it if it's totally unpartitioned
<ali1234> what, what's not true
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: there are no backups of the partition table
<funkyHat> There's a backup with GPT, but not with MBR
<MartijnVdS> just partition contents, from which approximate (or perfect, depending on the filesystem) partition boundaries can be recreatede
<AlanBell> did I misremember something?
<Supermanintights> hmm, i can't open terminal - the little taskbar on the left of my screen won't show
<jutnux> Cntrl+Alt+T
<Supermanintights> ta
<Supermanintights> so the usb drive looks to be MBR i think
<funkyHat> AlanBell: perhaps you're thinking of filesystem metadata within ext*?
<AlanBell> yeah, might be
<AlanBell> whatever it is I am thinking of there are quite a lot of them
<funkyHat> Well even GPT only writes its headers at the beginning and end of the device, and MBR is definitely only at the start
<Supermanintights> hey guys
<Supermanintights> i'm running testdisk
<Supermanintights> what partition table type would I select - intel, efi gpt, mac, none, sun, xbox
<Supermanintights> intel right?
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<Supermanintights> ta
<ubuntubhoy> how many times have you re-partitioned the drive ?
<Supermanintights> erm
<Supermanintights> none
<Supermanintights> it was just used out of the box as ntfs
<ubuntubhoy> quick analyse should do then
<Supermanintights> i think
<Supermanintights> i did quick search
<Supermanintights> instantly it told me i can do deeper search or write
<ubuntubhoy> but did it list the original setup
<Supermanintights> don't know - i can get the gist of what it wants to do, but i don't understand it all that well
<Supermanintights> i just click next til it works.. for better or worse
<Supermanintights> right now i'm running the deeper search
<ubuntubhoy> how big is the drive
<Supermanintights> 2tb
<Supermanintights> looks like it might take a while
<ubuntubhoy> could take a while
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<Supermanintights> currently says "read error at 391/191/63 (lba=6293510)
<penguin42> not good
<SuperEngineer> can it not just mark that block as bad & move on?
<AlanBell> funkyHat: I was thinking of ext superblock backups
<Nafallo> badblocks can
<SuperEngineer> errrmmm... open Disk Utility and see if any SMART data for the drive exists?
<SuperEngineer> [simple idea I know, but KISS principles always as 1st option!]
<monsterwizard> Oh wow we have a super hero
<monsterwizard> superengineer"
<monsterwizard> I'd read that comic
 * SuperEngineer blushes
<SuperEngineer> have fun folks, see you tomorrow [time for zeds] ;)
<Supermanintights> back - it's still going, however that's the only error message it's come up with so far
<Supermanintights> 14% done =/
<jutnux> And it's been like 5 hours
<hamitron> what has?
<jutnux> Superman's HDD recovery
<penguin42>       ^ attempted
<hamitron> doesn't sound very "super" ;/
<Supermanintights> well i've lost the ability to look at my task bar on the left, and see what applications are running (alt tab)
<Supermanintights> so i daren't try find out too much
<Supermanintights> too depressing when it's only probably on 25% or something
<hamitron> :/
<Supermanintights> ah, 31% - and different read errors coming through now
<Supermanintights> 51615/53/22 - lba=829198335
<hamitron> is the beta of 12.04 worth trying yet?
<penguin42> hamitron: Seems to mostly work for me
<hamitron> cool
<penguin42> hamitron: Of course it might eat your cat
<hamitron> my cat only complains anyway
<hamitron> ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-08
<penguin42> :-)
<hamitron> I'm hoping it is gonna be good
<hamitron> never used unity for a start
<hamitron> and just hoping it will be right for my newer machines
<hamitron> but may try it, if it is basically working..... see how I like the "feel"
<hamitron> no point in waiting for something, that I may not even like
<penguin42> nod, 12.04 isn't much different to 11.10
<penguin42> (at this point)
<hamitron> last one I used was 10.04
<hamitron> use*
<hamitron> is*
<hamitron> just not as much as I had hoped
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> !info librxtx-java natty
<lubotu3> librxtx-java (source: rxtx): Full Java CommAPI implementation. In component universe, is optional. Version 2.2pre2-3 (natty), package size 174 kB, installed size 1064 kB
<Supermanintights> 45% done
<Supermanintights> i'm not going to waste my time staying up for this shizzle
<awilkins> Windows update?
<penguin42> Supermanintights: consider how good the hard drive had been to you up until that point
<Supermanintights> not remotely good for me
<Supermanintights> had it less than 6 months before it decided to corrupt itself with 1.5tb of data on there
<Azelphur> So, who's awesome at CSS (Maybe even Drupal omega template?) :D
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Make?
<Supermanintights> WD
<Supermanintights> this is the second WD usb external I've owned, different model, which has had the EXACT same problem
<Supermanintights> randomly happening
<Supermanintights> the second was bought to help recover the first
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Will smartctl work with those drives?
<Supermanintights> not a clue, don't even know what smartctl is
<Supermanintights> penguin42, ^^ sorry, always forget to tag people etc.
<penguin42> Supermanintights: It reads a block of data from the hard drive and has things like number of remapped sectors and error rates etc - but it's really designed for IDE/SATA - I think it might work on some USB drives but am not sure
<Supermanintights> should i wait for this thing to finish first?
<Supermanintights> this deeper search of testdisk
<penguin42> probably best to wait for it
<penguin42> actually, udisks --dump might show the same info
 * awilkins has been quite happy with Samsung HDs recently
<awilkins> Seagates as well
<awilkins> I used to use IBMs until that whole Deathstar thing
<awilkins> Although I probably wouldn't use anything other than an SSD as a 2.5" portable external now
<awilkins> I had 2 or 3 mechanical drives die from shock in that role
<Semperfi30> Attempting to open a screen on a user whilst having a screen open on another user. I get this error: " Cannot open your terminal '/dev/tty1' - please check. I am running Ubuntu 10.04.1 LTS .
<BigRedS> what do you mean by 'open a screen on a user'?
<Semperfi30> Using the screen program
<Semperfi30> I type "screen"
<BigRedS> where? It's the 'on a user' bit that's confusing me
<Semperfi30> Sorry, I worded that strangely lol
<Semperfi30> I just meant
<Semperfi30> I'm on one user, I invoke screen. I su to another user, attempt to invoke screen when no other screens are running. And it gives me that error.
<BigRedS> oh. It shouldn't do that. Er, I've no idea in that case, I'm afraid
<Semperfi30> Hmm
<Semperfi30> I was trying to figure it out in my head, I'm not an expert with linux by any means but...Maybe I need to open a new terminal or something.
<Semperfi30> Instead of running it all from one SSH session
<Semperfi30> err VNC in this case
<BigRedS> nah, it should be alright
<BigRedS> screen lets you run screen in a screen session
<BigRedS> it's downright confusing, but it wont stop you
<Semperfi30> Strange, I haven't really done much to the server. Maybe it's a permissions issue or something or sorta like when you try to do something with a file when it's in use by another program?
<BigRedS> normally you get that error message when you try to launch a gui program when su'd to some user other than the one as whom you've logged in graphically as
<Semperfi30> Hmm
<Semperfi30> Heh
<Semperfi30> I'm trying to run l4d2 server, and mumble, and irc server, with multiple screens in different home directories basically. This is a huge dissapointment. Is there any other program I can utilize that functions similar to screen?
<BigRedS> not really, it's basically the standard. There's bonobo but that;s just screen with some nifty preconfiguration
<BigRedS> you might find that asking at not 3am gets you more and useful answers though :) (or in #ubuntu)
<Semperfi30> Haha
<Semperfi30> True
<Semperfi30> I am in North America so it is 10pm here give or take
<BigRedS> Ahh
<gordonjcp> it's nearly 3am here
<Supermanintights> is it normal for testdisk to stay at 50% while updating the read error? for maybe 30 minutes at least
<BigRedS> yeah, I'm guessing from your name that you're in the middle of north america :) There's a bunch of usy loco channels. Names of the form #ubuntu-us-<state>
<BigRedS> Supermanintights: I've not used testdisk all that much, but I've never had it take more than 10mins or so in total
<cgriff> Morning \o
<Semperfi30> Haha BigRed
<Semperfi30> Thanks
<Supermanintights> BigRedS, it's been going on a deeper search since 9:45
<Semperfi30> I doubt there would be too many frmo my state
<Semperfi30> Lol no one was in my channel for my state rofl no surprises there
<BigRedS> haha
<Semperfi30> actually, I was wrong, you have to type the abbreviated version of your state, first time around was the full name
<BigRedS> oh! yeah, sorry
<BigRedS> should have mentioned that!
<Semperfi30> Meh no one is responding
<Semperfi30> Lol
<Semperfi30> probably on idle
<Jora> hi
<czajkowski> aloha
<dwatkins> hiya
<dwatkins> I trust this day finds everyone well
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski, did they let you out on good behaviour yet?
<czajkowski> today
<AlanBell> jogging home, or taking it easy for a bit?
<czajkowski> taking it very easy
<czajkowski> stitches in my back
<dwatkins> ouch :-/
<czajkowski> was a bit konger than the 1 hr planned surgery. was under fir 3
<AlanBell> gosh :(
<AlanBell> have a picture of some beerfest cider to help you recover http://twitpic.com/4l7o0l
<AlanBell> tickets go on sale soonish
<AlanBell> christel: ^^
<AlanBell> well, tickets March 2nd, beerex is around the Precise launch
<AlanBell> czajkowski: danfish: mattt: the groupon vouchers now work for the rugby
<gord> someone could make a google plus to irc name translator and make billions
<dwatkins> billions of requests?
<gord> web views = money of course!
<dwatkins> hits just roll straight into your bank account, clearly
<mattt> AlanBell: thanks for the heads up!
<dwatkins> gord: there is always bitlbee, although it seems to have difficulty with names too
<jutnux> Morning people.
<dwatkins> hi jutnux
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<jutnux> Morning brobostigon, how are you?
<SuperEngineer> morninks jutnux dwatkins brobostigon et al
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> jutnux: still pretty bad, ill and my eczema isnt so good, an infection. and you?
<brobostigon> morning jutnux and SuperEngineer and MartijnVdS o/
<SuperEngineer> ...& of course... MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS just came back from a 14km run
<SuperEngineer> forget the car keys?
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: haha, no, training for a 20km run in 2 months
<SuperEngineer> good luck  to  you with that - that's more than I could do!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: I did it last year, I can do it this year easily :)
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: the year before that I was 30kg heavier and couldn't run to the train
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, nice one
<SuperEngineer> Interesting bit about Google+ ...
<MartijnVdS> ?
<SuperEngineer> i was forced to change from Super Engineer [to Billy Baker] because "Super Engineer" doesn't comply with their naming/identidy policy
<MartijnVdS> yes, they want real names
<SuperEngineer> .....today a friend let's me know he's following "Super Engineer" by mistake as it's not me!
<SuperEngineer> Super Engineer is NOT me on G+ - and I've reported this swine for impersonating! ;)
<MartijnVdS> So.. that's the name in your passport then?
<SuperEngineer> nope - neither will it be in the swine's passport
<SuperEngineer> one rule for all
<ubuntubhoy> they said that to me as well, but after filling out the 'appeal' form they allowed me to continue using this nick
<ubuntubhoy> it was more companies they were really after when it started
<SuperEngineer> [he/she is  perhaps a nice & wonderful person... but if I got suspended for that name - they shouldn't allow impersonation - methinks]
<ubuntubhoy> did you appeal the decision ?
<SuperEngineer> yep - tried but failed
<ubuntubhoy> no luck
<SuperEngineer> I'm not bitter with this other person - unless it's deliberate] but I protest to the theory of different folks, different rules
<MartijnVdS> ð± -> Unicode 6 \o/
<AlanBell> SuperEngineer: at the height of their strictness they launched the hangout stuff, and their star attraction there was some character called will.i.am
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell, definite laugh out loud to that
<SuperEngineer> ...and now - a good news story...
<SuperEngineer> I changed to  a theme from Linux Mint yesterday ... it runs and works and looks better on proper  Ubuntu [Lucid] than it did on Mint :D
<SuperEngineer> [sorry Minties - you loose out on such a lot]
<jutnux> "You cannot fast travel from this location"
<jutnux> So I have to get out of Ustengrav which took me like 219304820480208 years to get in
<jutnux> #skyrim
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: Sounds like Fallout 3
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: that has the same fast travel message
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: take an arrow to the knee, it might help
<jutnux> Already have :-(
<jutnux> Woo
<jutnux> got out
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<jutnux> So glad there is fast travel
<jutnux> Would take ages otherwise
<MartijnVdS> but the XP-increasing random encounters in the wild!
<jutnux> On short journeys I would walk ;)
<jutnux> Stupid Graybeards not talking
<Supermanintights> testdisk has finished
<Supermanintights> it's now suggesting i either quit or write partition structure to disk
<daubers> Morning
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
 * daubers is cold
<sagaci> hot and humid here
<jutnux> It's just the right temperature here
<jutnux> Hello daubers
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: if that's the same disk you "lost" last night... write the PT to disk [I'm only guessing - beware] - my theory is if you had lost all before & it thinks it do something for you, let it try - what have you lost if it's a fail [no more than before!]
<gord> has there ever been a point where manchester has not been completely bathed in fog all winter?
<MartijnVdS> gord: A few weeks, between the last geological age and the current one
<gord> way to go bt open zone "You have used (hh:mm:ss).Please refresh this page to see how many minutes you have used."
<dogmatic69> o/
<jutnux> Howdy
<Supermanintights> SuperEngineer, it told me to restart, and nothings happened apparently
<Supermanintights> still coming up with errors
<Supermanintights> in the flags, it's showing "Boot" if that makes any difference
<Supermanintights> (yes it is same disk that I was working on last night)
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: did you let it write the partition info?
<Supermanintights> i think so
<Supermanintights> i told it to write
<SuperEngineer> ok
<Supermanintights> then it said i had to restart computer to see changes
<SuperEngineer> that makes perfect sense
<Supermanintights> i don't see any changes
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: did you try my suggestion last night of seeing what info comes up in Disk Utilty [a gparted non-clone that is sometimes extremely useful [SMART data, partittion ident etc]?
<Supermanintights> i did, didn't understand it
<Supermanintights> give me one sec i'll load it up again
<penguin42> oh god this is confusing, a conversation between two Super's
<SuperEngineer> lol
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: a superman and a superengineer
<MartijnVdS> "If you're so super, why don't you fix it yourself?" :P
<SuperEngineer> [& this superI don't wear tights!]
<SuperEngineer> [& this super don't wear tights!]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: So you claim
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: We can't verify that
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS: ;)
 * MartijnVdS assumes the worst
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Aren't you cold?
<SuperEngineer> nah - the sussies provide some warmth
<Supermanintights> MartijnVdS, penguin42 :  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rIWEgmmQk
<penguin42> hmm
<Supermanintights> penguin42, SuperEngineer MartijnVdS  - http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/8221/selection008k.png - that's my disk utility
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: just seen all I need to know!
<SuperEngineer> stop flogging a dead horse.... it's cruel!
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Click the SMARt data button
<SuperEngineer> you've lost that disk I'm afraid!
<Supermanintights> urgh
 * penguin42 did say that last night
<SuperEngineer> [only hope is pro disk recovery service [& zero guarentee & Â£Â£Â£Â£'s involved] sorry mate
<penguin42> your disk has laddered
<Supermanintights> so basically i need to spend about Â£120 on a new 2tb drive to spend 4 days trying to recover it
<Supermanintights> using file scavenger on windows
<SuperEngineer> if it survives that long - feel free!
<Supermanintights> the data is still accessible - i used that software and checked, but I can't afford to buy a new hdd just yet
<Supermanintights> it's been sitting in my bag for about 4 months like this...
<SuperEngineer> then store it
<SuperEngineer> save pennies
<Supermanintights> i just forgot about it until recently
<Supermanintights> why would this happen - it just happened randomly?
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Show us the SMART data
<SuperEngineer> and ask for a birthday present from maiden aunt millionairess
<Supermanintights> running the test now
<Supermanintights> it's coming up with disk utitlty hard disk problems detected
<penguin42> No SMART data details?
<Supermanintights> how do i copy them?
<SuperEngineer> [click on View SMART data]
<penguin42> well you did the last one with a screenshot
<Supermanintights> right
 * Supermanintights feels moderately retarded...
<Supermanintights> http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/8350/20tbharddiskwdwdcwd20ea.png
<SuperEngineer> move away from the kryptonite Supermanintights, only SuperEngineer can withstand it!
<penguin42> Supermanintights: That's odd
<Supermanintights> good odd or bad odd?
<Supermanintights> http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/8350/20tbharddiskwdwdcwd20ea.png
 * SuperEngineer is now reminded it's time to open a bottle of "anti-Kryptonite juice" ;)
<penguin42> Supermanintights: I've never seen that one fail
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Ah, yes, the 2nd one makes more sense
<Supermanintights> well this is the second time, in second harddrive, same company, where i've had the exact same problem
<Supermanintights> for no reason other than it hated me and decided to die
<Supermanintights> http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/1964/selection011z.png
<penguin42> Supermanintights: You have to make your own conclusion about the reliability of that vendors drives
<Supermanintights> i've made that conclusion the second it happened
<SuperEngineer> see that "threshold" verse the "value".... be kind... bury it with a small ceremony
<Supermanintights> Western Digital - avoid. run. treat it like the plague.
<penguin42> Supermanintights: 1 bad sector is unfortunate, 1365 means you're trying to read from a block of cheese
<SuperEngineer> *definite* lol
<Supermanintights> lol
<Supermanintights> so
<Supermanintights> where can i buy 2tb HDD's from without breaking the bank?
<Supermanintights> especially after the thailand floods
<penguin42> Supermanintights: This is USB ?
<Supermanintights> yeah
<Supermanintights> 2.0
<penguin42> Externally powered or from the computer?
<SuperEngineer> go back to bed Supermanintights, wake up refreshed, beg that millioneiress maiden aunt
<Supermanintights> externally
<Supermanintights> but that part i'm not fussed penguin42
<penguin42> Supermanintights: I'm wondering if the failures are due to bad power
<Supermanintights> they're both externally powered
<Supermanintights> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Essential-500GB-External/dp/B002KQ1X3A/ref=dp_ob_title_ce - that's the first oen that died
<penguin42> Scan have a Seagate barra internal 2TB for 107inc
<Supermanintights> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Elements-External-Desktop/dp/B003IPC21Y/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1326027870&sr=1-1 - this is the one i'm trying to save now
<Supermanintights> i'm running a laptop though - internal not much use for me :(
<penguin42> Supermanintights: There are USB<->SATA docks for under Â£20
<Supermanintights> if i go that route - am i less likely to have a repeat of this problem?
<penguin42> Supermanintights: It's difficult to know what caused the problem - are you carrying this drive around all the time?
<Supermanintights> I do NOT want to have this happen for a 3rd time, it's a PITA
<Supermanintights> sometimes it's in my bag
<Supermanintights> normally on my desk, plugged in
<Supermanintights> I just restarted my computer one time (with this drive), and then I got an error message
<Supermanintights> I checked - windows said my drive was RAW and had no data, please format
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Well if it gets drop kicked in your bag it probably doesn't help, it could be a problem with powering
<Supermanintights> i checked with file scavenger - my data is still on there, i just need to get another 2tb hdd to recover it to, and allow 4 days for this to happen
<penguin42> Supermanintights: Some of your data is still on there
<Supermanintights> all of it
<penguin42> Supermanintights: It's wrong - there are at least 1350 sectors damaged
<Supermanintights> yaeh - it's weird, i know what you're saying, by all rights i agree with you, but i had the same problem 12 months or so ago.  bad sectors etc. and i was able to recover everything - i just had to spend a lot of money getting a second hdd
<penguin42> I've not seen SMART data lie - of course the bad sectors could be in an irrelevent part of your disk and not in your critical porn collection, but still
<Supermanintights> :P
<Supermanintights> well only thing i can do at this point is just buy another 2tb or whatever and then hope that it does recover like last time.
 * SuperEngineer googles "critical porn" ;)
<Supermanintights> SuperEngineer, porn where you have to be done in 45 seconds?
<penguin42> Supermanintights: If you're doing it then I'd use an external PSU on the drive; also you might be able to get some free cloud storage to tide you over - Ubuntu One/Google/erm there must be more :-)
<Supermanintights> or else they both die
<Supermanintights> i got 1.5tb approx to recover
<Supermanintights> i live by tottenham court road, i may google to see what I can get, then see if anything is going for cheap
<penguin42> oh, if you live next to TCR
<SuperEngineer> Supermanintights: you're pirating too many programs / OS's / porn vids!
 * SuperEngineer checks pirate party's lists for Supermanintights 
<Supermanintights> SuperEngineer, you're lying/have no proof/libel/defamation/sidetracking.....
<SuperEngineer> oooh - there you are - under "vce-president"
<Supermanintights> :(
<AlanBell> president of vice
<AlanBell> how are we all this fine afternoon?
<Supermanintights> i have 1365 bad sectors
<Supermanintights> sums up my day
<SuperEngineer> "A London double decker crashes into a busy supermarket in south-west London" - damn those supermarkets - why put one up at a bus stop ?
<SuperEngineer> [ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16460272 ]
<Supermanintights> i'm on http://www.yoyotech.co.uk/listing-products.php?component=Components - do I want external or SSD?
<Supermanintights> I know SSD stands for solid state drive, but is that what I'm looking for?
<AlanBell> Supermanintights: if you want terrabytes then no
<AlanBell> if you want small, fast, quiet then yes
<AlanBell> you can have TB class SSD, but they are a tad pricey
<jutnux> tad?
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: just a little
<jutnux> They're like a grand, aren't they?
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: Well, understatement IS the nation English sport ;)
<directhex> about a grand yes
<MartijnVdS> jutnux: 3T = 14Kâ¬
<jutnux> jaw = floor
<MartijnVdS> Cheapest 1T seems to be 2.3Kâ¬
<MartijnVdS> It'll be FAST though, probably
<jutnux> Tempted to buy a 128gb SSD in my next build
<jutnux> just put / and swap on there
<jutnux> and /home on the 1tb drive i have
<MartijnVdS> I have an Intel 120GB as /
<MartijnVdS> and /home on a 2T disk
<MartijnVdS> It takes longer to get through the BIOS than to boot Ubuntu :)
<jutnux> Sweet
<MartijnVdS> BIOS hands off to grub -> 2 seconds -> login screen
<jutnux> How much RAM do you have?
<MartijnVdS> 4 or 8 G, let me check
<MartijnVdS> 8
<jutnux> Probably going to get 8 in my next build
<MartijnVdS> I'm waiting for Ivy Bridge to be released
<MartijnVdS> I'm getting a shiny top of the line I7 the moment they're available
<jutnux> Lucky
<jutnux> I wish I had the money for that
<MartijnVdS> I hope I will ;)
<jutnux> Ubuntu has served me well on this old dual core 3.8ghz
<MartijnVdS> but my side-business (installing wifi APs for a camping) is good ;)
 * SuperEngineer wishes he had the Â£Â£Â£ to buy MartijnVdS's old machine!
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: but it's an i3
<MartijnVdS> I'm reminded of that every time I try to process photos (RAW -> JPEG) or video (MP4)
<SuperEngineer> so Â£2 then?? .... deal!
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<gordonjcp> I have a dual-core P4 3GHz
<gordonjcp> it's not the most energy-efficient thing
<gordonjcp> you know what, I'd probably be better using my HP microserver as a desktop
<MartijnVdS> Apparently, "they" have enabled more energy saving in the Intel graphics drivers
<MartijnVdS> on 12.04 (3.2 kernel)
<Supermanintights> wow
<gordonjcp> I wonder if "they" have a) fixed suspend, and b) fixed Intel i945 graphics corruption
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: the last one.. probably not
<MartijnVdS> i945 is deadish :(
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> I'm never, ever buying a machine with an Intel graphics chipset again
<gordonjcp> back to NVidia...
<jutnux> Nvidia \o/
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: I have the same with nvidia
<MartijnVdS> Every upgrade breaks the drivers
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: it's annoying, and it's one of the things I hate about Linux
<MartijnVdS> Drivers don't work properly with xrandr (so plugging in a projector is hell)
<gordonjcp> Linux is great *if* you're using the newest and greated
<gordonjcp> *greatest
<gordonjcp> for hardware more than a couple of years old, forget it
<AlanBell> I had nvidea and now I have intel, works great not going back!
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: it just doesn't work at all here
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: older intel chips had hardware bugs. Intel is getting better all the time, but they seem to have abandoned old hardware
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: just like Nvidia doesn't support old GeForces anympore
<MartijnVdS> anymore*
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: right, but this is in a machine about three years old
<jutnux> I have a GEFOrce 9500gt and it works fine
<AlanBell> I have 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 12)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: that's new enough to be not very bug-riddled
<AlanBell> I got it nearly 2 years ago
<gordonjcp> bizarre
<gordonjcp> someone just knocked on my door, but there's no-one there
<jutnux> Ding dong dashed, you have been.
<gordonjcp> jutnux: can't see how that's possible, there's nowhere to dash to or from
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: maybe a bird collided with it?
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: and bounced a couple of times, maybe?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: sure
<SuperEngineer> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-16459489  ... ouch!
<jonsaint> hi all. can anyone tell me why i keep experiencing total lock ups when im surfing the net? its only started happening. so far its done it 3 times today.
<jutnux> Holy hell
<MartijnVdS> jonsaint: did you change anything? was it fine before?
<jonsaint> yeah everything was great since installing ubuntu. did an update this morning (aout 6 things i think it was) and all has ben great, then this afternoon 3 total lock ups
<Supermanintights> do you mean like the computer just freezing momentarily for a few seconds?
<Supermanintights> i've had it this morning as well
<jonsaint> no. total lock up, no mouse movenet, no key use, nothing. had to use power button to power down
<AlanBell> maybe try holding shift at power on to get to the grub menu and leave memtest86 running for a bit
<jonsaint> il try that alan if it happens again, been on net just and it seems ok. strange how it happens one time and not the next
<penguin42> jonsaint: You may as well do it anyway - just leave it running while you go for lunch or something
<jutnux> A hacker according to The Sun: http://i.imgur.com/QPEPu.jpg
<jonsaint> ok il try it
<penguin42> jutnux: It gets cold sitting in front of your computer in the middle of the night
 * jutnux looks at the heater
<Supermanintights> is that a mac?
<Supermanintights> on that photo?
<jutnux> Yeah
<jutnux> Looks like it anyway
<AlanBell> with the logo removed to avoid offence to apple
<jutnux> They know that Apple would sue them
<AlanBell> they should start selling balaclavas in shop.ubuntu.com really
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Why? So you can hide you face while using Ubuntu in public?
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> http://www.bushells.com/r.php?id=24703&p=&t=&b=1&pf=&pt=300&a=20&favpage=&nh=0&s=2&l=e.g.%20SW4%20or%20Clapham
<andylockran> :D
<MartijnVdS> bus-hells?
<AlanBell> andylockran: that your crib?
<AlanBell> and this is where the magic happens
<penguin42> how confusing, there is a rose flowering (just one flower) in our garden
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: cut it, give to wife, brownie points?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Haha, no wife, and it's a bit small and weedy
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: girlfriend, boyfriend, husband, whatever ;)
<czajkowski> peeka boo
<AlanBell> afternoon
<czajkowski> I'm home
<AlanBell> yay
<czajkowski> indeed
<gordonjcp> czajkowski: yay
<daubers> class Item
<daubers> {
<daubers> public:
<daubers> 	Item();
<daubers> 	~Item();
<daubers> 	int itemType;
<daubers> 	char* itemName;
<daubers> 	char* itemDescription;
<daubers> };
<daubers> class Inventory
<daubers> {
<DJones> Erm?
<daubers> public:
<daubers> 	Inventory();
<daubers> 	~Inventory();
<daubers> 	Inventory nextItem;
<daubers> 	Inventory prevItem;
<daubers> 	Item item;
<daubers> 	void deleteItem();
<daubers> 	void addItem(Item item);
<daubers> };wtf?
<daubers> stupid blasted puitty
<daubers> apologies!
<daubers> Just hit the mouse to get rid of the screensaver and putty has dumped the clipboard
<mgdm> you right-clicked, then
<daubers> :(
<DJones> At least it wasn't something embaressing or your bank details in the clipboard
<daubers> yes, there is definatley that
<mgdm> I dunno, being caught C++ing... :D
<daubers> at least it was only a short header file too
<kvarley1> join ##php
<jacobw> evening
<brobostigon> afternoonings jacobw
<jacobw> how do brobostigon ?
<brobostigon> jacobw: pretty bad, my eczema has a bad infection, and am feeling quite ill, and you?
<jacobw> sorry to hear that ;(
<jacobw> i'm good thanks
<jacobw> its sherlock again tonight
<brobostigon> good to hear you ok. i never know how to respond really, when someone says that.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Winter is not kind to it
<brobostigon> penguin42: i was refferring to jacobw saying, he is sorry to hear i am not well.
<jacobw> hey penguin42
<brobostigon> penguin42: however, yes, my eczema is variable enough, to be good and or bad, or anything in betweem at any time, not just a predictable point in time.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Nod, mine doesn't like extremes of temperature or temperature changes
<brobostigon> penguin42: ok.
<mgdm> In other news, http://i41.tinypic.com/14in6mh.jpg
<bigcalm> .jpg aren't meant to be animated :S
<jacobw> apache tricks
<jacobw> also.. awesome :D
<bigcalm> The content is cool
<mgdm> bigcalm: content-type doesn't have to line up :-)
<bigcalm> What isn't cool is reading up on oauth on a Sunday - borrrrrrrrrrrrred
<mgdm> heh
<bigcalm> A mobile dev company is going to make an iOS app for a client of ours. I need to write an API for it to interact with the client's site. Decided to make use of OAuth, brain is now dribbling out of my left ear
<gordonjcp> anyone here remotely skilled with CSS?
<penguin42> long time since I wrote any, and then I only did simple stuff
<mgdm> gordonjcp: mildly
<gordonjcp> how do you get an image and some text to lie along a centre line
<mgdm> vertically or horizontally?
<gordonjcp> horizontally
<awilkins> ali1234, Had another thought about that Synergy thing we spoke about earlier... I thought it might be a good approach, instead of piping the network traffic across a Bluetooth socket, to emulate a Bluetooth HID client instead ; this has the extra advantage that you don't need to install Synergy on the client, it just needs a bluetooth radio and to support the HID client profile
<gordonjcp> let me just pop an example together
<awilkins> ali1234, one potential downside is the server would need to be told the dimensions of the client screen (I think absolute mouse position is going to work better, because you don't want to have to account for e.g. mouse acceleration on the client machine)
<awilkins> Ah, and the mouse HID driver on windows restricts absolute mice to the primary monitor. Gah.
<gordonjcp> mgdm: http://www.gjcp.net/~gordonjcp/test.html
<gordonjcp> mgdm: so apparently vertical-align: middle; applied to the image should cause all the other elements to fall into line with it
<jutnux> Full Orcish armor on Skyrim \o/
<mgdm> gordonjcp: tried applhying that to a container around the two thjings
<mgdm> wow, what happened to my typing?
<gordonjcp> mgdm: like the <h1>?
<gordonjcp> if you do that it doesn't centre
<awilkins> mgdm, Too much Skyrim? Distinct Nordic feel to "thjings"
<mgdm> awilkins: I don't own anything that would run Skyrim, so no
<mgdm> gordonjcp: Hmmm - pass
<jutnux> http://slashdot.org/story/12/01/08/069204/leaked-memo-says-apple-provides-backdoor-to-governments
<penguin42> not that surprising
<jutnux> Indeed
<shauno> gordonjcp: I'm not clear what you're looking for there; on mine, that test.html *is* centered?
<monster2323> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p00kjq6h/Shock_and_Awe_The_Story_of_Electricity_Spark/
<jutnux> |Brian Cox?
<monster2323> nope
<gordonjcp> shauno: the text isn't sitting a little too high?
<penguin42> monster2323: I do like Dr Jim
<penguin42> monster2323: Much less manic than B.C
<monster2323> Indeed
<monster2323> Brain Cox does get a lot of hate from young physists
 * penguin42 likes a bit more content in his science programs and less travel program
<KrimZon> heh
 * penguin42 likes that slightly insane medical Doctor guy as well
<mgdm> Ben Goldacre?
<penguin42> no
<penguin42> Michael Moseley
<mgdm> Ah, don't know him
<penguin42> http://www.jla.co.uk/presenters/michael-mosley
<penguin42> hmm odd site
<shauno> gordonjcp: it's spot on here.  it just *looks* too high.  it's an optical illusion because your example text has barely any descendeurs
<shauno> eg, the top and bottom of a lower-case 'a' are both 24px from the top & bottom of the image.  The surplus of ascendeurs just creates more whitespace below the text than you're expecting
<gordonjcp> shauno: good point
<m4rzh4ll> ragazzi
<m4rzh4ll> Ã¨ possibile mettere sulla scrivania di ubuntu le applicazioni che installo
<m4rzh4ll> ?
<AlanBell> !it
<lubotu3> Vai su #ubuntu-it se vuoi parlare in italiano, in questo canale usiamo solo l'inglese. Grazie! (per entrare, scrivi Â« /join #ubuntu-it Â» senza virgolette)
<m4rzh4ll> sorry
<christel> rawr
<AlanBell> !dinosaur
<AlanBell> hmm, must add that important factoid
<AlanBell> how are you christel?
 * Nafallo is tired
<christel> i am well! cold -- just got back from bristol, and gareth kindly turned the central heating to off instead of timed when we left
<Nafallo> isn't completely off bad for things?
<Nafallo> I think I've heard that somewhere.
<Nafallo> I left my place at 16C ;-)
<christel> yeah, i always leave it on timed for a tiny bit just to maintain some temperature (to keep my plants alive if nothing else!)
<Nafallo> I feel like dancing.
<Nafallo> I wonder where people dance in Budapest...
<AlanBell> I heard it was in the central square
<AlanBell> just start dancing and people will join in
 * AlanBell is a tiny bit evil sometimes
<penguin42> only tiny ?
<Nafallo> I would usually, but it's a bit further than I planned to venture after 10h workday :-P
 * Nafallo doesn't see the evil part...
<jutnux> Shameless self promotion: jutnux.co.uk
<jutnux> Any comments? I wanted something simple.
<jacobw> it is simple
<penguin42> nice - but it doesn't let me type
<jutnux> Of course not ;)
<jutnux> perhaps I should integrate that
<christel> hehe
<monsterwizard> I'm from bristol
<monsterwizard> how funny
 * jutnux is confused
<christel> i used to live in bristol before we moved to surrey -- the inlaws are down there, which is why i was there at the weekend :)
<monsterwizard> I see
<AlanBell> everything in the UK is "down" to christel
<christel> haha
<christel> correct
<christel> :P
<monsterwizard> Everything is up, to me
<monsterwizard> Even devon :/
<christel> haha
<RaycisCharles> monsterwizard must live in the channel.
<RaycisCharles> Under the sea...
<jacobw> sherlock!
<jacobw> what's better than sound juicer for ripping CDs?
<jacobw> i.e. choice of bitrates etc
<Supermanintights> guys - what's the difference between 2.5 USB and 3.5 USB - something to do with form factor?
<Supermanintights> i'm looking for a 2tb external, NOT Western Digital, that won't corrupt itself on me randomly
<DJones> Supermanintights: Normally, 2.5 inches in size and 3.5 inches in size
<daubers> I think you're looking at the size of the disks, rather than anything to do with USB
<Supermanintights> that's it? that's all form factor is?
<Supermanintights> does it make a difference in terms of performance?
<DJones> 2.5 inch is laptop drive size, 3.5 inch is desktop size
<jutnux> It's not the size, it's how you use it ;-)
<daubers> Desktop drives tend to be slightly cheaper/better per GB than laptop drives
<Supermanintights> i'm running a laptop, but i'm not remotely fussed on whether it's a tad bigger - it'll be on my desk mainly
<daubers> (note, not always true)
<daubers> Performance wise, your bottlneck will probably be USB if you only have USB 2 ports
<jutnux> Therefore buy a hub
<daubers> Uhhh..... no?
<daubers> That would make it worse
<daubers> hubs == evil
<Supermanintights> can you buy a usb3.0 adapter?
<daubers> To go into what?
<Supermanintights> erm.. my laptop... turn a usb 2.0 to 3.0?
<Supermanintights> i have a toshiba satellite a500-17x
<daubers> :) No, USB3 is backwords compatibly with USB2 but USB2 is slower than 3
<DJones> if you plug a faster port into a slower port, it'll default to the lower speed
<Supermanintights> yeah - that's why i was hoping for a way of getting usb 3.0 on my laptop
<Supermanintights> i got 1.5tb of data to recover, and transfer
<daubers> For average day to day stuff, you won't be too bothered by the difference in speed
<Supermanintights> sure - but for the recovery of the above - it might be worth the investment if there's a way of doing so
<zleap> i guess in the same way as a 100mbps network card is backwards compatable with 10 mbps, only the latter is slower, you use the same connectors
<daubers> Not really, You'll probably shell out Â£50+ for a USB3 PCMCIA card  + the extra for the drive to save you maybe 8 hours
<daubers> assuming you're reading all of that 1.5TB at the same single moment in time
<Supermanintights> it'll take longer than 8 hours
<Supermanintights> i recovered 700 before about 12 months ago
<DJones> daubers: How many new(ish) laptops have pcmcia ports though, must admit I've not seen one of those on a recent laptop
<Supermanintights> it took me 2 days to recover everything, send it to my other usb harddrive
<daubers> If you read all of the 1.5TB at once of a USB2 disk and they're all largeish files it'll take ~17.5 hours (25MB/s) also assumes the drive it's going onto can write at that speed
<Supermanintights> to recover 2.5tb in one go will take a VERY long time
<Supermanintights> *1.5tb
<daubers> Is that using data recovery software or doing straight copies?
<Supermanintights> the recovery software isn't fast though
<Supermanintights> data recovery - file scavenger (windows)
<daubers> DJones: some have PCCard slots (Which are different) now
<Supermanintights> my current harddrive has 1365 bad sectors
<Supermanintights> i need to recover and fast
<daubers> Supermanintights: Then it will be much much slower as you'll be IOPS limited, so USB3 won't help
<Supermanintights> hmm
<Supermanintights> is there any way i can speed it up - i can't guarantee i can not move my laptop for 3+ days as i'm regularly having to work in different locations
<daubers> The slow bit will be actually getting to the data sectors on the original drive
<daubers> So.. not really
<Supermanintights> fair enough
<Supermanintights> hmm, will it make a difference if i use an old netbook - could that work?
<Supermanintights> or would that take even longer/not be or itpowerful enough f
<daubers> No, you still have the same problem. The source drive will be slow on IOPS (i.e. that's the bottleneck really)
<Supermanintights> ok thanks
<Supermanintights> would you recommend doing it in bits, or all in one go?
<daubers> I'd always do it all at once (and image the source drive first in case it all goes kaplooey)
<Supermanintights> it's a mixture of documents, movies, programs - many large (>1gb), and lots small
<daubers> I normally let a dedicated machine deal with recoveries
<Supermanintights> i don't have the free space to image - i want to image it, but I can only just afford 1 more 2tb harddrive - i just gotta hope
<Supermanintights> it's close to gone as it is - i only know of one software that's been able to do this thing before
<daubers> then you really want to do it once and just let it get on with it
<Supermanintights> ok, fair enough
<daubers> also... you may want to look at some form of backup regime if this has happened before.....
<Supermanintights> i assumed it was a freak occurence
<daubers> Disks die, they're mechanical things
<daubers> I get 2 or 3 a week come back at work
<Supermanintights> how can you back up though if you're using copious amounts of data - otherwise i'm just spending hundreds of pounds at a time to get a hdd, and then to get a back up
<daubers> (out of the couple of thousand I send out each week)
<daubers> Get an external drive and backup to that. I have a couple I do that with (one here one at my parents)
<Supermanintights> that's what it is - an external drive, WD 2tb Elements
<Supermanintights> the first one that died is a 500gb WD mybook
<Supermanintights> my internal hdd is only 500gb
<Supermanintights> sorry - the first one was a 1tb wd mybook
<daubers> Ideally you want 2 copies (or more) of your data
<Supermanintights> clonezilla is good for imaging right?
<jutnux> Supermanintights: Yes, amazing.
<Supermanintights> how big will the images be? are they compressed? i'm happy to schedule weekly image backups - but only if I can have it compressed so I can store the backups somewhere
<daubers> Why not just copy the data?
<daubers> rather than image the whole drive?
<jutnux> Just tar.gz the original folder
<jutnux> then .rar that
<Supermanintights> because then it'd mean buying two of the external drives every time - if i buy a 4tb to fit in more data, i'll have to buy a second one to have as a backup
<Supermanintights> and i can't afford it
<daubers> Best thing is to look at your data and figure out what is important and what can be recreated. Then just backup the important stuff
<jutnux> You must have lots of crap
<Supermanintights> i'm a compulsive downloader, and i have a weird OCD on deleting anything
<Supermanintights> I refuse to delete emails
<jutnux> Ah
<Supermanintights> if something is completely junk/useless, i can do it
<Supermanintights> if it has a tiny bit of value/potential value
<Supermanintights> it stays
<Laney> H. O. U. N. D.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Bracknell  8th January 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=44
<bigcalm> Aye, Sherlock was fun
<jacobw> mycroft is crazy
<bigcalm> No kidding
<bigcalm> But how did he end up in that room in the 1st place?
<jacobw> that wasn't mycroft
<jacobw> that was moriaty
<jacobw> but mycroft released him
<jacobw> (IIRC)
<bigcalm> I meant moriaty
<bigcalm> But my question still stands
<jacobw> yes, still
<jacobw> i can't think how he got there
<popey> evening all
<mgdm> Hi popey
<Azelphur> evening
<bigcalm> mgdm: how do you call a function by string?
 * popey has had too much cheap hungarian beer
<popey> and some ribs
<mgdm> bigcalm: call_user_func or call_user_func_array
<bigcalm> Ta
<mgdm> bigcalm: if it's a method, $obj->$foo() works
 * AlanBell tickles popey's ribs
<bigcalm> I see!
<Azelphur> CSS is making me want to stab things :(
<bigcalm> It has that side effect
 * mattt dislikes CSS
<Azelphur> hehe
 * mattt dislikes anything front-end
 * bigcalm sips his kings ginger
<Azelphur> I dislike frontend too :(
<popey> heh
<popey> time to watch sherlock via a proxy on my vps
<mattt> popey: in the US?
<popey> mattt: budapest
<mattt> what the heck you doing there
<bigcalm> popey: tis a good one
<bigcalm> mattt: drinking too much cheap hungarian beer and ribs
<popey> mattt: canonical rally
<bigcalm> Only the basic best bits of a rally
<RaycisCharles> Is it anything like an ANC rally?
<mattt> fun ... i still want to make it to a UDS one year
<mattt> RaycisCharles: anc rally?
<AlanBell> like the lombard RAC rally
<mattt> oh, so not http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ANC :P
<popey> AlanBell: one of my fave songs ever
<bigcalm> Hah
<RaycisCharles> No, the African National Congress.
<AlanBell> popey: you will never win the rally in that volvo
<RaycisCharles> Oh. Is this a motorsport rally?
<RaycisCharles> I thought popey was on a fundraising rally for Canonical...
<mgdm> Volvo used to make OK BTCC cars
<AlanBell> yeah, I saw a BTCC race when they first introduced them and everyone was laughing at them for fielding an estate car
<mgdm> It did quite well, IIRC
<mgdm> then they were banned for some reason
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8FylD6BZrM
<RaycisCharles> Probably for fielding an estate in a rally.
<popey> best rally music ever
<bigcalm> Have you seen the power sliding station waggon?
<popey> Propoganda - Duel
<mgdm> RaycisCharles: BTCC != rally
<RaycisCharles> Please do explain.
<RaycisCharles> British Touring Car Championship?
<mgdm> BTCC is touring cars, a tarmac track, much like F1 or whatever
<mgdm> not rallying
<RaycisCharles> Ok.
<RaycisCharles> Is it like F1 i.e. not a real sport of skill?
<mgdm> Hah
<RaycisCharles> F1 is like horse racing.
<mgdm> If you hold that opinion I'm just going to stop talking ;-)
<ali1234> cars are boring :(
<RaycisCharles> Give the credit to the horse/car.
<RaycisCharles> F1 isn't even considered a sport. It's more like boxing on wheels.
<RaycisCharles> I guess that makes Schumacher the Tyson - crashing into people, trying to kill them etc.
<jacobw> boxing on wheels?
<mgdm> jacobw: I don't get it either
<RaycisCharles> As in, not really competitive in a sporting sense.
<RaycisCharles> There's no 1v1 tournament, no ranked matches, every car is different etc.
<BigRedS> so it's like most racing, then?
<RaycisCharles> - I watch a lot of F1 btw -
<RaycisCharles> BigRedS, well, I consider using stock cars to be more of a sport.
<RaycisCharles> All that matters is the driver's skill, not if your team invested $300m in your latest car (as in F1).
<hamitron> costs a lot of professional stock car too ;/
<hamitron> s/of/for
<mgdm> most of the cars in touring car racing, NASCAR, etc bear very little resemblence to the 'base' model internally
<RaycisCharles> NASCAR is something else entirely.
<BigRedS> RaycisCharles: That doesn't make it more of a sport, it makes it more of an individual sport and less of a team one
<mgdm> in NASCAR it's basically a frame made of scaff bars welded together with an egnine in, and a fibreglass shell that superficially resembles the car it's meant to be
<RaycisCharles> BigRedS, sports science and engineering doesn't make it any more or less of a team sport.
<RaycisCharles> Eg. there's a hell of a lot of sports science in tennis, but it's considered an obvious team sport.
<BigRedS> You just said it did - stock cars is more of a sport because all that matters is the driver's skill
<RaycisCharles> BigRedS, I said I considered it to be more of a sport, not a team sport.
<RaycisCharles> Right now it's like horse racing.
<RaycisCharles> The horse matters too much for there to be any sporting merit in the winner; same goes for F1 and its driver/car relationship.
<RaycisCharles> Anyway, it's just an opinion.
<RaycisCharles> Lots of people swear by horse racing.
<hamitron> football (soccer) isn't really a sport either though, if you start looking
<hamitron> like that anyway
<hamitron> but I consider them all sports
<hamitron> ;)
<RaycisCharles> I don't remember footballers using segways to move around the pitch.
<RaycisCharles> When they do, it ceases to be a sport and becomes just entertainment.
<hamitron> footballers at big clubs who can afford it, don't have to play all the matches (too hard for them)
<RaycisCharles> That isn't how it is at all. All the best footballers want to play every game.
<hamitron> they complain about too many matches
<RaycisCharles> No, the managers complain about too many international fixtures.
<RaycisCharles> There is a difference.
<RaycisCharles> A top player plays 50-60 games a season if he doesn't have injuries.
<hamitron> then why do they field a "2nd Squad" for FA matches ;/
<RaycisCharles> Because the manager wants to save the best players for more important matches.
<RaycisCharles> And he wants to give experience to younger/fringe players.
<hamitron> so money gives them an advantage
<RaycisCharles> No, you can have 40 shit players in your squad.
<RaycisCharles> Or 40 excellent ones.
<hamitron> and in F1 you can have a car with 4 wheels and 1 driver
<RaycisCharles> hamitron, none of those 40 players are machines.
<BigRedS> yeah, and more money means more excellent ones, surely?
<RaycisCharles> Come back when Man Utd name Wall-E on their subs bench.
<mgdm> FWIW, I like F1, but I find football deathly dull. Unfortunately I work somewhere i can't avoid hearing about it :-)
<BigRedS> so the point isn't the competetiveness, simply the presence of non-humans?
<RaycisCharles> BigRedS, riding a machine isn't a sport when all the machines are different.
<RaycisCharles> If all the machines were the same, then yes, it would be a sport.
<BigRedS> I don't get it
<hamitron> no machines are the same though
<hamitron> :/
<BigRedS> none of the riders are the same, either
<hamitron> exactly
<RaycisCharles> You're supposed to measure how good the riders are.
<BigRedS> surely choice of machine is no less sporting than choice of line, or choice of where to kick the ball
<RaycisCharles> Unless F1 is supposed to be about who can build the best car.
<hamitron> RaycisCharles, it is
<hamitron> ;/
<RaycisCharles> Maybe it is?
<BigRedS> RaycisCharles: well, there's the manufacturer's championship in F1
<RaycisCharles> Well, at its core, F1 is about selling cigarettes to Africans.
<RaycisCharles> BigRedS, but nobody except the constructors care about it.
<BigRedS> Surely F1 is teams competing with each other to fields the best combination of car and driver
<BigRedS> RaycisCharles: well, no but that goes for the driver's standings, too :)
<RaycisCharles> Then it's more like a competition than a sport.
<hamitron> and teams search for the best driver..... drivers search for the best teams
<RaycisCharles> You can enter a poker tournament - is that a sport?
<BigRedS> I think I'm just going to accept that I don't understand your definition of "sport"
<hamitron> :)
<RaycisCharles> It's ok - I'm from the country which invented pretty much every sport.
<RaycisCharles> We're somewhat opinionated.
<ali1234> DARTS
<BigRedS> doesn't every country believe it invented all the sports?
<ali1234> that's a real sport
<mattt> DARTS
<RaycisCharles> BigRedS: no
<RaycisCharles> The UK invented pretty much every major sport played today.
<RaycisCharles> US invented basketball and netball IIRC, but that's it.
<hamitron> ali1234, ofc
<hamitron> :)
<RaycisCharles> Darts is big in Holland, for some reason.
<mattt> RaycisCharles: i thought you were going to say you're australian
<mattt> was wondering what sports they invented ;(  minus that weird rugby-like sport they play
<RaycisCharles> Aussie rules football?
<RaycisCharles> Canadians also have their own version.
<RaycisCharles> Not sure why.
<hamitron> so do america ;)
<mattt> yeah, the canadian football league is american football, but slightly different
<RaycisCharles> Just like Canadians are slightly different from Americans.
<RaycisCharles> American rugby would be the most boring sport in the world if not for the frequent violent collisions.
<RaycisCharles> The honour of most boring goes to baseball.
<hamitron> never played it
<RaycisCharles> Most exciting to actually see in person is basketball IMO. Has to be a good team though (i.e. a team full of 8ft tall black Americans).
<mattt> can't stand basketball, it's like watching someone playing pinball
<hamitron> I can't stand it to watch
<RaycisCharles> But but what about the 8ft tall black guys?
<hamitron> fun to play
<RaycisCharles> I used to play, back in the day.
 * mattt is afk
<cgriff> Most games are like that terrible to watch but alright to play ^
<hamitron> cgriff, dunno, kinda like watching some "tough" sports with a beer ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2012-12-31
<soreau> Azelphur: Did you figure it out?
<Azelphur> yep, krename does really good at that
<soreau> where's the fun in that? :P
<Azelphur> haha
<solarcloud_3scrn> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2012/12/shopping-lens-for-gnome-shell/  has this chated about before ? someone ditched in favourite #channels Glist  so I lost the log ..
<AlanBell> I did mention it earlier :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> col.
<solarcloud_3scrn> **cool.
<AlanBell> have you tried it?
<solarcloud_3scrn> No, I'm stil on Meerkat ..I'm surprised it work with .es .. I can never loggon and tagg books there ...
<Shuboni> Hello, I feel like I'm going around in circles with a problem I'm having.
<AlanBell> what problem Shuboni?
<AlanBell> it is a bit late
<Shuboni> Sorry.  See, I'm trying to install zenity-common.  Every time I go to install it using gdebi, I get an error.  "Failed to completely install all dependencies."
<Shuboni> I'm unsure what other information is needed, I'm a bit new to Ubuntu.
<AlanBell> !info zenity-common
<lubotu3> zenity-common (source: zenity): Display graphical dialog boxes from shell scripts (common files). In component main, is optional. Version 3.4.0-2 (quantal), package size 216 kB, installed size 1456 kB
<AlanBell> why are you using gdebi? it should install from the software centre
<Shuboni> The software center tells me that it's already installed.
<AlanBell> maybe it is :)
<Shuboni> I need it to install steam.  When I try to install Steam, gdebi states that I don't have it.
<AlanBell> aaah, right try asking in #ubuntu-steam or telling steam about it in their web forum thing
<AlanBell> night all o/
<Shuboni> Thank you very much!
<solarcloud_3scrn> noght AlanBell .. you shuld get some IOM post on Monday ...
<AlanBell> ooh :)
<kaushal> Hi
<ali1234> AlanBell: you made slashdot
<kaushal> is there a way to lock screen in Ubuntu 11.10 when there is no activity for 5 mins?
<kaushal> Screen Lock?
<kaushal> does it do the work?
<dwatkins> kaushal: I installed xscreensaver, but for the pretty screensavers mainly, I think it also locks the screen.
<AlanBell> ali1234: woot!
<czajkowski> aloha
<bashrc> good morning
<ali1234> does anyone know about masthead amplifiers?
<popey> we have one
<popey> well, had
<ali1234> well, they send the power up the aerial cable right?
<popey> yes
<ali1234> so i've got two tv points and one of them has a funny white box connected inline with the aerial
<ali1234> if it isn't connected neither of the tv points works
<ali1234> at first i thought it was a booster but when i switched it for a different booster it didn't work at all
<popey> is the white box connected to the mains?
<ali1234> so it must be the powersupply for masthead amplifier
<ali1234> yes
<popey> sounds like it then
<ali1234> and it says "triax" on it and nthing else
<ali1234> well, boosters connect to the mains too
<popey> is there a box on the mast?
<ali1234> i dunno i'd have to go outside
<ali1234> brb
<ali1234> looks like it :)
<popey> ours broke a while back, probably water logged
<ali1234> everything works fine as long as this box is plugged in :)
<ali1234> the trouble is someone keeps turning it off on the other socket which breaks my TV
<popey> put it on your socket and not theirs?
<ali1234> that's what i'm going to do
<ali1234> it does work on my socket
<ali1234> but i'm wondering how it knows to filter out the DC
<ali1234> hmm if i put my meter on the aerial socket i should get DC from it...
<ali1234> heh... 12.35 V
<ali1234> well that explains that
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<popey> how does the TV filter it?
<ali1234> popey: it doesn't. it seems the amplifier has more than one connection, and can accept the DC on any connection, and filter it from the others
<popey> neat
<popey> oh of course, the dc doesnt get to the telly
<ali1234> i don't know how it does this but it must, based on measuring the DC at each socket while it is plugged in
<ali1234> i did accidentally plug it in my tv tuner to the wrong side of the power supply while testing
<ali1234> and the weird thing is not only did it not explode, it actually got a signal too
<ali1234> i've been trying to figure out why i can't get a signal at night time for like 2 years
<ormiret> I would expect capacitors to kill the DC on most inputs. You never know what someone is going to plug in...
<celesteh> hello, I've just upgraded my lenovo tablet to 12.0.4 ubuntu studio and i've been having majo problems with ghost touches whenever i have anything dark on screen, the computer gets fairly unusable.  I found this web page which claims to have the solution: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Multitouch/Calibration/Ntrig but the script is not working - it looks for files that don't exist:  /sys/bus/usb/drivers/usbhid/*/*1B96* . I'm not sure what t
<celesteh> o do.
<mgdm> ali1234: we have one of those too - the PSU is connected to the aerial with an F connector instead of the standard aerial connector, so you'd be doing well to connect it wrong
<ali1234> this one is just standard coax connectors
<ali1234> i have a box of adapters though, so i could still connect it wrong if i wanted to
<mgdm> hehe
<popey> yeah, ours uses f connectors too
<celesteh> is it possible to run a windows executable firmware updater in wine?  http://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles/fwdi01en.txt
<popey> i wouldn't
<popey> i installed windows in a separate partition just last night on my lenovo to install a bios update
<jacobw> i don't think so
<popey> lenovo make bootable cd bios updates too though
<popey> so you dont have to have windows
<celesteh> oh, that's handy
<celesteh> it's not easy to find on their website, though....
<celesteh> the bios update also contains the firmware updater?
<celesteh> or would i put the firm ware updating programme on a pen drive and then run it while boted from the bios CD?
<popey> i found it for my laptop last night pretty easily
<popey> assumed they did it for other laptops
<ali1234> bios updater? use a dos bootdisk
<ali1234> unless you have windows 8/uefi. in that case give up
<popey> http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/research/hints-or-tips/detail.page?&LegacyDocID=MIGR-77280
<popey> for example, filter on bios and there's a bootable thing there
<celesteh> ah, i found the disk image!  Will the bios updater also update the firmware, or is that a separate issue?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: You can cross that off your bucket list then ;)
<AlanBell> hehe, well I have been slashdotted before
<jacobw> AlanBell: well done, the extensions looks great
<AlanBell> thanks jacobw
<Azelphur> Woo, got my first threat-o-gram from the TV licensing folks, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/2012/December/2012-12-31%2011.52.06.jpg
<Azelphur> (despite what the letter says, it is actually the first I've heard from them :p)
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> past occupier probably left them hanging too
<Azelphur> yea probably
<daftykins> i'm planning on not paying for one in my new place, as i neither watch nor record TV
<daftykins> and i see that their site has been nicely updated to tell you you're exempt even if you own one now :>
<Azelphur> daftykins: my sentiments exactly, I have a box with XBMC on it, it does everything I want and I don't watch Live TV.
<daftykins> :D
<kvarley> Easiest way to let everybody read/write/execute on an external hard drive?
<daftykins> i don't even know if they have a local person to go around and do it
<Azelphur> kvarley: 777?
<daftykins> ownership becomes a problem too
<Azelphur> daftykins: apparently they are coming from canterbury, that's a fair distance (~40 mins drive)
<daftykins> user+group
<daftykins> :D
<kvarley> I just want anybody regardless of user/group to be able to read and write
<daftykins> Azelphur: do you think you'd go for the refusal of entry approach if someone did show up, or let them in and justify how it's exempt?
<Azelphur> daftykins: I'm following what TV License resistence say to do, which is to no comment everything
<kvarley> Used nautilus to set nobody as owner and nogroup and read and write on all. Ty anyway :) Azelphur
<Azelphur> If you let them in they have been known to do best efforts to falsify evidence
<Azelphur> kvarley: welcome :)
<daftykins> :O cheeky swines
<Azelphur> daftykins: they do cheeky stuff like poke their fingers in the antenna socket to become a human antenna in order to get the thing to have a signal so they can nab ya, so I've read.
<daftykins> i did seem some interesting youtube vids XD
<Azelphur> and there's plenty on youtube ranging from them lying about the law is, to outright assault
<daftykins> O_O
<daftykins> must be a nasty job
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> my little screwdriver set from ifixit.com just showed up :D
<Azelphur> I also plan to film them for my own safety, as I say based on the youtube videos they seem like a vicious bunch
<Azelphur> yay little screwdriver
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> http://www.ifixit.com/Tools/54-Bit-Driver-Kit/IF145-022-1
<daftykins> very nifty. now i've got the Torx size 6 to do the SSD upgrade in a friends macbook pro :>
<Azelphur> snazzy
<daftykins> hmm you're quite the easterner over there eh? :>
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> can only go more east if you go swimming
<Azelphur> :P
<daftykins> nice 'n' breezy at this time i assume?
<Azelphur> it's actually quiet atm, last night was really windy though
<Azelphur> it's annoying because I have crappy windows, so you get gusts of wind coming in and the blinds all rattle about :p
<daftykins> =[
<daftykins> new place o' mine is 17th century listed, with the funky thin windows and rope and weight operated to slide open
<Azelphur> on the bright side, the holes in my window were big enough to poke some cat6 through, haha
<daftykins> though it's quite sheltered so it shouldn't be too bad
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> to go between floors, or?
<Azelphur> daftykins: brother lives next door :p
<Azelphur> nicking his internet since openreach have 2 month delays to get my line activated :<
<daftykins> ah-har
<Azelphur> indeed, I applied at the beginning of December and they won't connect me till feb
<daftykins> useless ;x
<Azelphur> yea xD
<daftykins> i'm probably going to do a 2 year contract to get the Technicolor (aka Thomson) router for the local VDSL service once i'm in my place
<Azelphur> yea, I've done a contract with talktalk for 75mbit (they seem to be the best bang for buck)
<daftykins> they say they post it, but the telco HQ is about 100m away along the highstreet in town here :D my place is about 10 paces from the highstreet
<penguin42> Azelphur: http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2012/06/ofcom-uk-names-talktalk-most-complained-broadband-isp.html   yeuch
<Azelphur> penguin42: that's odd, I read another article saying they were rated #4 in the country for customer satisfaction
<daftykins> that's probably just standard ADSL services and customers with super shoddy lines not helping that
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> actually sky didn't get many complaints and i think a lot of mainlanders go with them since they do cheap services?
<Azelphur> I've had an ok experience with them so far, their sales guy was nice
<Seeker`> need to work out how they gauged satisfaction :P
 * kvarley was with talktalk and left
<Azelphur> http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2012/12/sky-broadband-tops-ofcom-study-of-uk-isp-customer-satisfaction.html ah here we go
<solarcloud_3scrn> Anyone seen the new Q190 Lenovo yet .. looks like it could be a winner for Ubuntu TV ? On the Left ... http://www.engadget.com/2012/11/15/lenovo-intros-ideacentre-q190-htpc-new-c-series-all-in-ones/ ::: ALSO .. http://doiop.com/Q190-galleries
<daftykins> ubuntu TV? what are they doing now D:
<Azelphur> solarcloud_3scrn: haha too late for me, I just built mine in this case http://www.fiercepc.co.uk/XCase_Q100_HTPC_Case.jpg
<solarcloud_3scrn> opening ..
<Azelphur> quite spiffy for a 40 quid case, comes with a remote too
<daftykins> those ouya console looks great for an XBMC machine. $99 tegra3 games console
<daftykins> ignore the grammar fail
<solarcloud_3scrn> Azelphur,  yeah .. looks ok .. silver-something it's called as brand name isn't it ??
<Azelphur> solarcloud_3scrn: it's an X-Case Q100
<Azelphur> I got it from here http://www.xcase.co.uk/Home-theatre-pc-case-p/casse-q100.htm
<solarcloud_3scrn> Ah yes , X-case .. Trouble shippping the plastic one's if I remember ... but your looks good.
<tony_> Help - can anyone assist?  I upgraded my version of ubuntu and have lost the grub menu - its still there, as when I press enter where id usually see it I can boot into Ubuntu normally - I just now get a message that says "video mode not supported"
<Azelphur> yea, the remote they show in the photos is wrong, I got shipped this one https://www.dropbox.com/s/0te2xtvf6j8wfo5/2012-12-20%2020.09.05.jpg but it's a nicer remote IMO so I ain't complaining :D
<tony_> my machine dual boots with XP which I need for work
<solarcloud_3scrn> opening...
<penguin42> tony_: ok, what did you upgrade from/to ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> Azelphur, Where's the 'Home' button to get that menu ?
<Azelphur> tony_: not sure I fully understand your question, but if you've got broken grub try running boot repair, it's quite magical at fixing grub issues https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Boot-Repair
<kvarley> Does anybody know of a webui or android app that will let me browse an SFTP server via the raspberry pi? So I can transfer files to the SFTP server through the raspberrypi ?
<Azelphur> solarcloud_3scrn: *shrug*
<tony_> I think im now on 11.10, not sure what I was on previously sorry - just let it upgrade when it asked me to and it did take a while
<Azelphur> kvarley: andFTP can connect to a SFTP server on android
<kvarley> Azelphur: I want it to be able to transfer files to/from a server in my house tho not my mobile devices
<Azelphur> kvarley: right, so you want your phone to connect to the SFTP server, AndFTP is a SFTP client.
<tony_> Penguin42 - I am on 11.10
<Azelphur> I use it all the time for grabbing files off my desktop while I'm away from home
<penguin42> tony_: Azelphur's suggestion might be worth a go, in particular there seems to be an option on it 'Uncomment GRUB_GFXMODE' to try and fix out-of-range type problems
<kvarley> Azelphur: I want my phone/web browser to connect to a server on my LAN which will allow me to access another server on the WAN.
<penguin42> tony_: Hmm if you've just upgraded and are on 11.10 and can still boot ubuntu then the best bet might just be to keep upgrading to 12.04
<kvarley> Azelphur: I have client PCs syncing to a server in my house. I want to be able to manually upload/download docs from an external server but onto the server in my house.
<kvarley> I guess what I really want is for an SFTP server to be able to list files/folders on an external server
<Azelphur> kvarley: sounds like what you want is sshfs
<daftykins> kvarley: sounds like a very strange setup. what are you /actually/ trying to achieve? :P
<Azelphur> AndFTP -> Server1 has Server2 sshfs mounted.
<kvarley> Azelphur: That sounds about right :)
<tony_> Thanks guys - trying boot repair now
<Azelphur> righto, go fourth and multiply :p
<kvarley> daftykins: Ability to upload / download docs to an external server via a LAN connected server
<Azelphur> might be a tad slow, it's generally better to connect directly to the server you want to talk to
<kvarley> Azelphur: My LAN is fast, my WAN is terribly slow
<Azelphur> ah
<kvarley> Is there a way to have an SFTP server automatically mounted when the system boots?
<kvarley> I assume I could just make a bash script and add it to startup I guess
<daftykins> i think that's why he suggested sshfs
<Azelphur> kvarley: yes, sshfs in fstab.
<kvarley> Azelphur: :D thanks
<Azelphur> :)
<DJones> Heh I see AlanBell has been /.'d
<DJones> 2nd article showing on slashdot at the moment
<penguin42> haha nice one
<AlanBell> DJones: yup :)
<penguin42> AlanBell: Be glad that's not your own server; I've watched a machine I admin'd take a /.'ing a few years ago - very scary
<AlanBell> what isn't my server?
<penguin42> AlanBell: The link on /. seems to be someone elses blog pointing to it rather than directly to yours?
<DJones> The link goes to http://www.muktware.com/5032/gnome-extension-shows-ubuntu-how-do-shopping-lens-right#.UOGOuVIz1w9
<AlanBell> and the link below it goes to my server
<penguin42> ah ok - god people look beyond the 1st link :-)
<AlanBell> several people appear to have followed the second link :)
<popey> "Canonical has not yet officially responded to either EFF or FSF."
<popey> sigh
<popey> he makes stuff up as he goes along
<Azelphur> Canonical killed a kitten once, I saw it.
<AlanBell> http://blog.canonical.com/2012/10/12/searching-in-the-dash-in-ubuntu-12-10-an-update/ would be the official update I think, not sure that is directly in response to RMS or EFF (RMS was late to the party)
<popey> we don't need to directly respond to everyone, if we did, we'd have no time to actually kill all those kittens
<popey> that is a response, whether muktware likes it or not
<AlanBell> oh I agree with that
<Azelphur> indeed, gotta make time for kitten killing :p
<AlanBell> possibly more of a presponse than a response
<popey> but I tire of that site, I spent time helping him make his articles accurate then he goes and posts a load of uncorrected FUD
<Azelphur> what's the whining about, the new amazon stuff?
<AlanBell> that wasn't the site I would have chosen to be associated with this tbh
<solarcloud_3scrn> muktware or slasdot ?
<AlanBell> muktware
<solarcloud_3scrn> yeah. I understand .. He's way to obtusious...
<AlanBell> he spelled my name wrong
<solarcloud_3scrn> he called diaspora a scizo network :D
<Azelphur> lmao scizo network :D
<solarcloud_3scrn> 'nuff said.
<popey> http://www.muktware.com/4050/does-ubuntu-have-any-market  irritated me
<Azelphur> you can't access flash, wat?
<Azelphur> yea, I like how the entire article is, well, false
<Azelphur> How to be a journalist in 2013: Step 1) Make something up that is false and will annoy everyone, Step 2) Post it on the interwebs, Step 3) Advertising revenue!, Step 4) Profit
<AlanBell> omgubuntu kind of did that, then raised standards a lot
<solarcloud_3scrn> the Wuktware guy is really a LinuxMint guy in disguise, that's all I'we come to learn about him.   .. he does several key-fgure pictures/vids a couple of times a year, but really he's following his own tail.
<OmNomDePlume> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/564/amazon-shopping/ Is this from our AlanBell or are there two Alan Bells on the internet?
<popey> it is
<daftykins> heh friend just linked me
<Azelphur> #ubuntu-uk has many Alans :P
<daftykins> bug 1055766
<lubotu3> bug 1055766 in command-not-found (Ubuntu) "grep -R doesn't automatically search amazon" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1055766
<OmNomDePlume> Yes, but how many Alan Bells?
<OmNomDePlume> lol daftykins
<Azelphur> only 1 afaik :p
<solarcloud_3scrn> http://doiop.com/wuktware = Wuktware guy
<Azelphur> lol fix released
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> "How are we command line jockeys supposed to support Canonical without ads in our terminals? Couldn't they be added to the screen command?"
<dwatkins> daftykins: lol
<popey> solarcloud_3scrn, you know it's "muktware", not "wuktware"?
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey.. it was muktware .. I change the subdomain.
<daftykins> why do i get the idea Shuttleworth's nickname came from faceplanting the keyboard?
<OmNomDePlume> daftykins, I think Ubuntu should give up on traditional repos and just use the Amazon App Store for apps.
<daftykins> 'sabdfl'
<popey> it pre-dates him
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benevolent_Dictator_for_Life
<popey> Guido used it
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> Mr. Fawkes? :>
<daftykins> ah
<OmNomDePlume> Tito was also a BDFL.
<OmNomDePlume> Now, I'm not comparing Tito to Shuttleworth, but at least Tito didn't pledge to replace X with Wayland. It's all I'm saying.
<daftykins> is there any evidence of users moving in droves away to other distros? seems to be a lot of talk on tech sites as to such
<dwatkins> daftykins: indeed, and some of the OS sites go by page views, not 'installed desktops' so it's just speculation anyway
<dwatkins> I'm not sure how you would go about measuring how many people run one or other distro, even with access to the repo logs.
<popey> people make bold claims about numbers of users they have
<popey> i saw zorin claim they have something like 2M users
<popey> and they are smaller (?) than Mint
<popey> which implies Mint has at least 2M
<dwatkins> Even though they're currently touting 47% of consumer devices running linux, that's just Android. As far as I know, Linux desktop usage is still around 2% of the PC market, unfortunately.
<daftykins> the unity hatred does seem justified, things are quite hard to find the few times i've fired up a VM
<solarcloud_3scrn> Zorin is screwedd off the blimp-ship .. It kan't keep-up with W$n8
<dwatkins> I was quite surprised I can't move the dock nor have a screensaver by default in Unity, although there are workarounds/hacks, of course.
<popey> daftykins, you need to use it more than just a few times in a vm to be fair
<daftykins> true, though i get the feeling a DE move would happen quicker than adjusting :D
<penguin42> has anyone got a link to a public pdf which has section-page numbering; e.g. pages numbered 1-1,1-2,1-3,... 2-1,2-2,2-3,....3-1,3-2,3-3....    I wan't to report a bug against okular for not handling them but the only one i have is a confidential one
<daftykins> ah well, i appreciate the inapplicable comments of mine as a non-desktop user
<popey> penguin42, could you not just make one with libreoffice and print to pdf?
<penguin42> popey: Yeh, what I'm not too sure of is whether there are any special things needed to do to make it work - but I guess that's probably the best bet
<daftykins> penguin42: is just page numbering insufficient?
<daftykins> as i could knock up a PDF from MS word with footer'd page numbers if not
 * penguin42 will have a crack with lo
<penguin42> daftykins: I'll find out
<daftykins> righty-o
<solarcloud_3scrn> Looks like Sumvision Cyclone Voyager have a new Tablet for iPlayer  out .. http://www.ebuyer.com/407318-sumvision-cyclone-voyager-tablet-pc-cycvoy101?utm_source=b2c_31-12-2012&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=b2c_monday ::: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/BBc%20iplayer%20tablet/Sumvision%20Cyclone%20Voyager%20have%20a%20new%20Tablet%20for%20iPlayer.jpg
<dwatkins> penguin42: do you mean a PDF where you can click the page numbers in the contents list?
<penguin42> dwatkins: No, evince has an option to open at a given page, and it'll take the 2-3 page label rather than a page index
<penguin42> dwatkins: Most of the other viewers will only take a page index
<dwatkins> penguin42: that's interesting, as I encountered a bug in the Acrobat plug-in where using ?page=<some number> failed in certain browser/Acrobat combinations
<dwatkins> My brother had done some research on it, as he's a developer for a company that makes a SIP client with a html/php front-end
<daftykins> 0o
<penguin42> dwatkins: I'll see if I can create this one
<dwatkins> penguin42: let me know if I can help, i.e. create a document using Acrobat
<Karthik_> I'm geeting this error after trying to mount exfat partition. Error mounting: mount exited with exit code 1: ERROR: invalid checksum (0x3beb != 0x38f3).
<Karthik_> happened after I was copping files over LAN
<solarcloud_3scrn> penguin42, Got one .. for you .. with chapters ... https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/BBc%20iplayer%20tablet/jedit5.0.0manual-a4.pdf
<OmNomDePlume> "<dwatkins> As far as I know, Linux desktop usage is still around 2% of the PC market, unfortunately." <-- it's been 1% for the last 10 years.
<OmNomDePlume> Why has it remained static for a decade? Simple: as more people began to use "easy" desktop distros like Lindows and eventually Ubuntu, the people who were using Slack/etc. began dying of old age.
<daftykins> XD
<OmNomDePlume> So the two cancelled each other out, and Linux desktop share stayed at 1%.
<dwatkins> I wonder if that's going to change with Steam being available for Linux, though.
<solarcloud_3scrn> penguin42, Did you get that .PDF ??
<OmNomDePlume> Probably not. The only people who want Linux on the desktop are people who 1) know what Linux is, and 2) have an ideological issue with proprietary software and closed source development
<OmNomDePlume> </generalisation>
<penguin42> solarcloud_3scrn: Yeh, the page numbers aren't actually chapter based
<daftykins> people who game on windows illegally will stay there
<dwatkins> OmNomDePlume: it may be a generalisation, but I suspect there's truth to it in terms of the majority of users
<daftykins> people who legally purchase games via Steam and want to do so on Linux will be a niche i think
<OmNomDePlume> Yep...if piracy was somehow made impossible overnight, 50% of people would move to Linux overnight.
<dwatkins> yeah, 'Joe Public' will still buy a PC/laptop with Windows preinstalled for now.
<penguin42> solarcloud_3scrn: Although it does have the roman stuff at the start
<solarcloud_3scrn> penguin42, , Oh Ok ... sorry . my bad , that's all I got for you, sorry
<OmNomDePlume> Steam is a special case - it's generally as convenient as piracy.
<penguin42> OmNomDePlume: Ah not so easy because if they did that then it's unlikely they would run stuff on Linux
<OmNomDePlume> Piracy has its pluses, but so does Steam eg. all your games in one central console, all your stats/achievements, sales, the fact that if Steam goes bankrupt they'll release patches which give you ownership of the games.
<OmNomDePlume> There's no other downloadable games store which will realistically do that; all others such as Origin will simply shut down and lock you out of your games.
<OmNomDePlume> Steam has integrated patching, too.
<daftykins> i don't know anyone that cares about Steam achievements :)
<OmNomDePlume> Dude.
<daftykins> xbox live achievements, sure... PS3 'trophies', maybe :D
<OmNomDePlume> Achievements/Trophies are LIFE.
<daftykins> i care not for the Steam ones
<OmNomDePlume> You haven't lived until you've Platinumed BO2.
<daftykins> BO2 ?
<OmNomDePlume> Black Ops II.
<daftykins> oh i don't buy that retarded franchise
<OmNomDePlume> Before Linux can challenge Windows gaming, it first needs to match OSX gaming.
<OmNomDePlume> OSX has Black Ops....1....
<penguin42> dwatkins: Hmm, I can see how to get what I want displayed in libreoffice; I'd create a footer that had a chapter field - page number; but I'm not sure that would be the 'page number' as seen by the pdf, or as a reference
<kvarley> Despite people hating CoD I hope it gets ported, it's a fun game and lets face it all game devs would consider porting their own games if such a big title made the move
<dwatkins> penguin42: I see what you mean, yeah - you also have the issue that page numbers are often out of sequence due to the contents and other beginning pages not being counted in the main page numbers
<penguin42> dwatkins: The one I have to deal with at work was written with Framemaker
<twager> Anyone tell me if the Kindlefire hd mounts as a block device in Linux ?
<OmNomDePlume> kvarley: the fact that only older games are ported to Linux and OSX speaks volumes.
<OmNomDePlume> Anybody who really wanted to play BO would've played it on Windows/360/PS3/Wii/iOS/Android by now.
<OmNomDePlume> Eg. all the fuss about Steam...but 99% of the Windows games ported will be Source games, and Valve only release a new game every 2 or so years.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: and lots of indie games.. humble bundle stuff
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: and now the Unity3D engine has a
<OmNomDePlume> So yeah, I'm thrilled I'll be able to play Half-Life 2...again...almost 10 years after its PC launch.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: "Linux" support mode, it'll only get more popular
<OmNomDePlume> MartijnVdS, I'd like to see play stats on indie games.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: so would valve (guess why they're in steam) :)
<dwatkins> Steam and the HL2 engine are very much still new to Linux, I suspect many more games will follow which are actually recent.
<penguin42> can only be good for forcing debug of graphics drivers
<MonsterKiller> o/
<popey> <OmNomDePlume> Probably not. The only people who want Linux on the desktop are people who 1) know what Linux is, and 2) have an ideological issue with proprietary software and closed source development
<popey> I don't believe that for a minute
<popey> given around 80K people we legitimately "in" the closed steam beta running closed source apps via a closed source store on their open source desktop running closed source video and wifi drivers..
<ali1234> ideology is bogus
<popey> indeed
<ali1234> i use open source software because when it breaks (which it does all the time) i can actually fix it
<popey> i use it because i like it
<ali1234> this is not ideology, this is pragmatism
<popey> exactly
<ali1234> i realised something the other day
<ali1234> these people who complain about android not being "real" linux
<ali1234> these are the kind of people who like ideologies
<ali1234> if you compare android to maemo you'll notice that every single part of it is exactly as open
<ali1234> maybe some of it isn't as good
<ali1234> but... it's open source. fix it.
<ali1234> i couldn't understand why people would even use open source if they're not willing to do that
<ali1234> but then i realised
<ali1234> it's because they just want to support a team
<ali1234> and android is clearly much too mainstream
<ali1234> as such, the above quote is quite possibly true of a majority of ubuntu users
<penguin42> ali1234: The difficulty with both is that they're under pressure to make big releases and thus have to hide features/development until release, and to some extent that's getting to be a problem with Ubuntu as well
<ali1234> nah, that's not the problem at all
<ali1234> AOSP doesn't ever get half the actually good stuff in android
<ali1234> it certainly has everything that maemo every released as open source though
<ali1234> more, in fact, since it has an email client and dialer
<penguin42> aosp doesn't have a dialer?!
<ali1234> aosp has a dialer
<ali1234> maemo didn't
<penguin42> ok
<ali1234> or rather, it was never released as open source
<ali1234> same for email client afaik
<ali1234> and they both rely heavily on closed source drivers, maemo probably more so
<ali1234> basically aosp has always been far more open than maemo in terms of source availability
<penguin42> ali1234: But in terms of knowing what development is going to happen and what's going to land in the next release?
<ali1234> well nokia constantly talked the talk, and then totally failed to live up to it
<ali1234> google just throws the code over the wall when they are good and ready
<ali1234> the only difference being google never promised that they would do anything else
<penguin42> ali1234: Right, and that's the bit I'm worried about - in terms of people getting involved in development it's hard
<ali1234> not at all
<penguin42> ?
<ali1234> if you find a showstopper in android and post it on the code review system then google people will notice it
<penguin42> but you don't know new features?
<ali1234> no, of course you don't
<ali1234> nobody cares about features
<ali1234> if i need a feature i'll implement it myself
<MartijnVdS> all of it?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> if i need it enough
<penguin42> ali1234: Well, to some degree I think that's a problem; some peoples interest in open source is the ability to have a bit of control and knowing what's going to happen
<MartijnVdS> even if it's a big feature that requires months of work?
<ali1234> you can never know what is going to happen
<penguin42> ali1234: and it's a heck of a lot harder to implement stuff on the big projects of today than it was on the GNU tools
<penguin42> ali1234: Well Ubuntu has things like the Blueprint system that at least tells you some of what's going on
<ali1234> well, that's why the big projects of today totally suck
<ali1234> and why i don't use them
<penguin42> ali1234: yeh, but we still want web browsers, working 3d graphics and a word processor - so it's hard
<ali1234> the thing is, we already have all of tose
<ali1234> s why are we constantly reinventing them?
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh I agree we shouldn't reinvent, although they still *** quite badly
<ali1234> it reminds me of the movie brazil
<ali1234> "new ducts"
<penguin42> haha
<ali1234> but they still fill your house and break all the time, they're just incompatible with the old ones
<penguin42> nod
<ali1234> AlanBell: presumably you'll know roughly how many people installed your thing from the traffic. is it popular?
<AlanBell> not very yet, 66 unique IP addresses have conducted product searches
 * solarcloud_3scrn is away: /me rquires a Juan valdez BRBack...
<Azelphur> Anyone know if it's possible to download files from a upnp server?
<AlanBell> ali1234: actually just 39 searched, there were other things that were not searches
<directhex> Azelphur, technically no... but you can stream the whole thing at line rate, if your software supports it
<Azelphur> directhex, ah :p
<daftykins> UPnP is such a joke of a protocol :D
<daftykins> i can't help but see OS X copies when i look at quantal
<ali1234> Azelphur: upnp "streams" the files over http very often
<ali1234> i dunno if it always does that... i think it does... the whole thing is xml rpc over http iirc
<ali1234> there's a package in the repos which will let you mount a upnp as a filesystem
<ali1234> http://djmount.sourceforge.net/
<ali1234> so from that you can just copy the files
<AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/ interesting
<AlanBell> something touchscreen related this way comes perhaps
<daftykins> all those cookie messages steal my valuable screen real estate
<AlanBell> o/ bigcalm
<bigcalm[mob]> AlanBell: o/
<bigcalm[mob]> AlanBell: ?
<AlanBell> bigcalm[mob]: was just saying hi :)
<AlanBell> have you tried the gnome shell shopping lens?
<penguin42> AlanBell: How was your server doing?
<bigcalm[mob]> AlanBell: ahoy
<penguin42> happily /.'d ?
<AlanBell> yeah, quite cheerfull
<bigcalm[mob]> AlanBell: no, I use xfce
<AlanBell> 3,926 blog views today
<daftykins> hai Myrtti
<Myrtti> hi daftykins
<popey> evening all
<Azelphur> evening mr popey
<Azelphur> gotta love this company I ordered parts off of
<Azelphur> I preordered parts off you, you didn't deliver the parts after 6 months (3 orders after stated preorder date), please return my money
<Azelphur> Sure, we'll send you back 50% of what you paid!
<Azelphur> what a generous offer :P
<dutchie> lo
 * Azelphur waves
<neuro> oh good, the proclaimers are on bbc one scotland, that's not stereotypical AT ALL
<daftykins> Azelphur: sounds great!
<Azelphur> daftykins: I know, amazing offer xD
<daftykins> aww my poor puppy is scared half to death at the fireworks going on
<penguin42> daftykins: Give it some ear defenders
<neuro> time to get a drink in me hand
<daftykins> ah i just had to go and babysit her for a little bit
<daftykins> unfortunately she got *very* scared if you know what i mean
<daftykins> ah ~3 mins left, yawn
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> i officially had enough this year, i'm in by myself instead of at the usual big event
<neuro> cidre bouchÃ© from normany for me this evening
<neuro> daftykins: i'm in by myself as well
<neuro> spent the last three hours completing arkham city :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> not a bad use of the evening at all
<neuro> bbc one scotland have just commanded us to charge our glasses
<neuro> and we have a piper on the ramparts of embra castle
<penguin42> to 50kV ?
<Azelphur> daftykins: me too, peaceful :p
<neuro> but in the background you can hear princes street going absolutely barmy
<neuro> penguin42: it's a scottish phrase
<daftykins> XD
<neuro> fill your glass and get it in your hand
<neuro> and here we go ...
<penguin42> I know :-)
<daftykins> don't believe a word he says, they'll use it to trick the British
<daftykins> mains powered drinks :O
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-01
<penguin42> Happy new year!
<neuro> happy new year folks!
<daftykins> +1
<Azelphur> happy new year :p
<daftykins> yes irssi, day changed indeed.
<Azelphur> good news everyone, we didn't die
<daftykins> bad news, yet
<neuro> and one of my potential new years resolutions has gone right out the window already as I've lit up my first marlboro gold of 2013 :)
<Azelphur> neuro: haha
<daftykins> tut tut!
<penguin42> tsk
<Azelphur> I beat my last years resolution \m/
<daftykins> was it spend more time on IRC?
<daftykins> 8D
<Azelphur> haha
<neuro> holy fireworks, batman
<neuro> i think edinburgh just exploded
<neuro> and now they're going to try a mass singalong, doing Auld Lang Syne with 75K folk
<neuro> nutters
<daftykins> crazy
<daftykins> and you lot want to be your own country
<daftykins> woot the...
<neuro> I KNOW
<daftykins> :D
<neuro> i used to watch jools holland on hogmanay, but he's not been booking the best acts in the last couple of years, and when you know it's prerecorded, it kinda loses something when they ring in the bells
<neuro> at least we in scotland put in some effort
<neuro> i notice the bbc england/national thing is just like 15 mins long with gaby logan saying "here's some fireworks over london, um bye"
<daftykins> those hootenanny progs he does are recorded!?
<neuro> yup
<daftykins> i suppose that explains why randomer band types want to be there on new years XD
<neuro> wow, princes street is PACKED
<neuro> and now phil cunningham and ali bain playing some shetland choons! it MUST be the new year!
<daftykins> never heard of 'em 0o
<dwatkins> they certainly let off a lot of fireworks here in Edinburgh, 5 minutes o constant kabooms
<neuro> dwatkins: aye, saw the on the telly, looked prety epic
<neuro> whereaboots in embra are ye?
 * dwatkins is in Tollcross, about a mile from the castle
<dwatkins> possibly less
<neuro> aye, know it well
<neuro> used to work beside festival square, then up west port
<dwatkins> ah yes, nor far from me
<dwatkins> I'm really lucky - I work in Sighthill, so can cycle along the Union canal to get to work, and encounter very little actual road
<penguin42> wth does Scotland have 2nd as a bank holiday anyway?
<Whoop> same reason England has the 1st...because its an arbitary date someone concluded is special
<penguin42> but I can't quite see the reason to have 2 days, except if the 2nd one is just to recover from the celebrations on the 1st
<Whoop> I can't quite see the reason to have 1 day, except if the 1st one is just to recover from the year
<penguin42> hmm I see your point; 1 day isn't really enough to recover from a year
<Whoop> Sounds like you just gave yourself reasoning for Scotlands 2nd day
<penguin42> yeh
<dwatkins> for me the 2nd of January is just another opportunity to work and get time off in lieu ;)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<jacobw> happy 1356998400 seconds since 01/01/1970 :)
<MartijnVdS> jacobw: only 790444308 more seconds before the end of the world!
<jacobw> MartijnVdS: haha
<bashrc> the end of the world?  Again?
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_2038_problem
<kvarley> Happy new year ubuntu-ers :)
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: It's like the 2000 bug? Is the Linux Kernel ready for this?
<dwatkins> The 64-bit kernel should be, considering the 2038 bug is a limit in the representation of time as a 32-bit number.
<MartijnVdS> some programs might not be though
<MartijnVdS> http://www.merlyn.demon.co.uk/critdate.htm#Y2038
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<kvarley> \0/
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<dogmatic69> anyone know what the countdown is for?
<dogmatic69> http://www.ubuntu.com/
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: I've seen guesses. Mostly "Canonical's own tablet"
<dogmatic69> ah
<dogmatic69> strange timing I think.
<MartijnVdS> hence the "you an almost touch it"
<AlanBell> I am guessing phone
<AlanBell> tablet would just annoy everyone who bought a nexus 7 at UDS
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: a TV .. with TOUCH
<AlanBell> or that
<AlanBell> fingerprints ahoy
<jacobw> a dell ubuntu laptop with an ubuntu key
<MartijnVdS> ubuntu key?
<MartijnVdS> So you can install the ad-free version of Ubuntu?
<jacobw> instead of the windws key
<AlanBell> even the sputnik that they spent 8 months working on came out with a windows key on it
<AlanBell> wonder if whatever it is will run gnome shell
<jacobw> why?
<dwatkins> I have no windows key on my IBM Model M keyboard ;)
<apacheuk> I have a Ubuntu key on my FILCO keyboard :)
<brobostigon> why not have a haiku-key , as that superkey, :)
<dwatkins> apacheuk: I'm very tempted to get one of those keyboards and make it look like a BBC Micro (red function keys)
<apacheuk> dwatkins, I love it... thinking about trying to persuade work into getting me one
<dwatkins> apacheuk: I'm still not sure where to get red function key caps, but I discovere a whole 'nother world of people installing custom coloured caps with specific fonts and all sorts of other keyboard bling :)
<apacheuk> dwatkins, FILCO do sell different colour keys
<dwatkins> aha, handy
<ali1234> 9 days after christmas is a spectacularly bad time to release a piece of hardware
<mfraz74> 1st April is a bad time to release hardware too
<popey> who's releasing new heardware 9 days after christmas?
<ali1234> nobody
<penguin42> so the comment that it is a spectacularly bad time to do it was just a random observation?
<ali1234> yes
<penguin42> riiiiiight
<dwatkins> Dell are probably about to release a new line of 27" monitors - they were selling the previous line off cheap until christmas eve
<penguin42> they often do cycles of discounting their monitors though
<dwatkins> yeah, I wasn't complaining at 40% off
<penguin42> oh nice; was that the 1920x1080/1200 or the higher res ones?
<dwatkins> higher res, iirc
<dwatkins> http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/dell-27-ultrasharp-monitor-offer-with-coupon-looks-pretty-good-for-spec-382-08-delivered-1406844
<penguin42> oh nice, that might be just about a record for that res
<dwatkins> in terms of the price? perhaps
<dwatkins> "1kg cartons of Ambrosia custard 50p as ASDA" - that site has some fantastic deals ;)
 * penguin42 keeps a little note of cheapest prices for size of monitors (I wish I'd kept the historic data), cheapest I'd had for a 27 2560x1440 was 414 a year or two ago
<dwatkins> aha neat
 * penguin42 isn't sure he could actually justify to himself buying another LCD, my 24" 1920x1080 is enough, although more pixels is always nice
<dwatkins> It was a tough choice for me.
<penguin42> dwatkins: Well yes, the choice between custard and cream....
<dwatkins> hehe
<dwatkins> I'll use my current monitor as a secondary display
<penguin42> what's your current display?
<dwatkins> Dell 2001FP
<dwatkins> 20" iirc, 1920x1080
<penguin42> os is that a 1600x1200 one?
<penguin42> I've got a couple of old 2000FP's at work
<dwatkins> oh sorry, yeah - 1600x1200
<daubers> Afternoon
<solarcloud_3scrn> Wow .. Just got the usu. spam tab for http://www.planetside2.com/ .. Although .. Gameinformer seems german ... http://media1.gameinformer.com/imagefeed/screenshots/PlanetSide2/Planetside--10.jpg
<mgdm> where on earth are my core files going?
<mgdm> I've killed whoopsie, and now I don't seem to find them anywhere
<mgdm> which makes debugging segfaults in code annoying
<directhex> mgdm, nowhere by default, no?
<mgdm> well, on every system I've ever used, I've done 'ulimit -c unlimited', and core files then appeared in the current dir
<directhex> you need to set a core pattern too
<directhex> http://sigquit.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/the-core-pattern/
<mgdm> Ooooh, so that's been changed in this release to pipe to apport
<mgdm> fixed now, ta
<Azelphur> what's the countdown on ubuntu.com about? o.o
<popey> âº
<Azelphur> countdown to smiley face, just what I always wanted
<czajkowski> popey: you use thunderbird right?
<popey> ya
<czajkowski> popey: have you had to back up all your mail yet on there and been able to restore it?
<popey> yes, by backing up my entire home directory
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> not done that before
<czajkowski> and need to do that before tomorrow to my external Hd
<popey> my laptop gets backed up daily
<popey> so I don't need to worry about it
<czajkowski> what do you use?
<popey> rsnapshot on a remote machine
<czajkowski> hmm not heard of that
<czajkowski> shall cook dinner and be nice to Jon to see if he'll help
<czajkowski> also need to make sure my ssh keys are backed up
<popey> I'd just boot off a live cd/usb and copy all of /home to the external device
<AlanBell> rsnapshot and rdiffbackup allow you to do daily incremental backups
<AlanBell> if you want a one hit grab everything for a warranty return then I wouldn't bother trying anything complicated
<popey> ditto
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> they could have sheldon for up to 10 days
<czajkowski> need to get life back into old tosh for work and email or maybe see if I can use Jons other Macbook
<AlanBell> never borrow a macbook when your laptop is broken. The smugness will be overpowering :)
<daubers> Has anyone in here competed in Ludum Dare?
<popey> gord has i think
<daubers> I'm considering attempting the next one
<popey> I want to do http://www.onegameamonth.com/
<daubers> That is also quite cool
<daubers> Not sure I could put the commitment in at that level continuously though
 * daubers subs to the reddit
<Whoop> Azelphur: The wording and rumours would suggest they're releasing a touch device of some description
<Whoop> also the recent unity alterations
<Azelphur> yea, I got that far :)
<jacobw> what unity alterations?
<Whoop> Nothing specific, just Unity in general over the last few releasese
<Whoop> everything focused around touch
<popey> it has?
<ali1234> popey: why do you keep asking leading questions?
<ali1234> we all know you're not going to tell us :/
<ali1234> i don't think it will be hardware personally
<ali1234> it might be a new version of unity that is designed for touchscreens
<ali1234> it might also be a cloud desktop for ubuntu one subscribers
<popey> I'm not.
<popey> Whoop suggested that we've added more focus around touch
<popey> i wanted to know how we have done that
<ali1234> it says "touch" on the front page on ubunt.com in big letters
<ali1234> the unity alterations are conspicuously absent
<Whoop> popey: larger icons, docks, touch apis etc
<ali1234> remember when nobody could figure out how to rearrange icons on unity?
<ali1234> cos you have to drag them to the side, "off" the launcher
<ali1234> i realised today this is a touch gesture
<popey> yeah, that was the original design..
<ali1234> doing that under windows 7 does the same thing as right clicking
<Whoop> popey: sure, they keep iterrating on it
<ali1234> obviously you cannot right click with a touch screen
<popey> heh, I never knew it did that on windows 7
<popey> well, right click is long press isnt it?
<ali1234> sometimes
<ali1234> but swiping up on the icons, "swipes" open the menu
<ali1234> it's better than long clicking
<ali1234> you actually see the menu swipe up with your finger, at the same speed
<ali1234> it's quite good
<ali1234> well, with te mouse in this case
<popey> yeah, it's very nice
 * popey is on w7 atm
<popey> just tried it having never seen it before
<ali1234> yeah i only saw it today, setting up a new wndows 7 machine
<popey> Whoop: it's certainly improving, but I've not seen any additional touch stuff added in the last few releases
<ali1234> how's that nexus 7 project coming along?
<ali1234> last i checked it wasn't anywhere close to being usable?
<ali1234> actually if you read between the lines of the faq for that it makes some kind of sense
<ali1234> "The focus of this project is on the core of the OS, so there are no plans to support shells at this time."
<ali1234> "As of now, we can not change the UI to make it more touch friendly."
<ali1234> if i read between those lines, which you all know i love to do, i read "because there's a team working on it in secret, which would make any work we do pointless."
<popey> heh
<DJones> ali1234: Maybe its tomorrows announcement
<daftykins> http://www.irc-junkie.org/2013-01-01/efnet-faces-major-attack-on-new-years-eve/
<daftykins> Efnet got owned a tad :>
<ali1234> DJones: um, yeah, that's what i meant :)
<czajkowski> popey: AlanBell all done we were able to copy over my /home to old tosh :)
<popey> yay
<czajkowski> forgot how heavy old tosh is
<daftykins> you had a computer death?
<czajkowski> but think in a few weeks I'll actually set up a desktop for home work and then use lappy for travel
<czajkowski> daftykins: nope but backlights kinda flickering on and off so it's going to get some TLC as it's just about under warranty
<daftykins> ah strange one
<czajkowski> aye and not what I needed the week I go back to work :)
<czajkowski> so mid panic
<czajkowski> but it's all sorted
<daftykins> good stuff
<czajkowski> hmm my keyring didn't unlock
<czajkowski> what pesky keyring is it talking about
<AlanBell> gnome keyring
<AlanBell> with wifi passwords and stuff in it
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> possibly
<czajkowski> if so no idea why it's asking for it
<czajkowski> as that wasn't  a set up on Sheldon
<daftykins> wifi hardware change prompted a surprise perhaps
<czajkowski> perhaps
<popey> did you setup a new user with the same password as on the old computer?
<czajkowski> yes
<popey> odd
<popey> it should unlock when you login
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> that's what I would have thought
<czajkowski> still tis working for the next few days till sheldon comes back to me
<czajkowski> Nn folks
<popey> you can just open seahorse to fix it
<czajkowski> popey: will look into that tomorrow
<czajkowski> cheers
<czajkowski> :)
<daftykins> laters
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-02
<ali1234> wtf another piece of sewing software with ridiculous copy protection
<ali1234> old ladies are clearly the worst software pirates
<dutchie> or they don't know about computers to realise there is another way
<daftykins> ali1234: how do you get so much exposure to such gear XD
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning and happy new year :-)
<AlanBell> morning and happy new year TheOpenSourcerer and all o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Morning - son't forget Paul's laptop or he will have nothing to do :-)
<TheOpenSourcerer> He is here.
<AlanBell> yup, on my way now
<diplo> Happy new year all, and Good morning
<popey> morning
<kvarley> <9 hours now :)
<popey> âº
<czajkowski> aloha
<kvarley> I hope this release actually gives us access to something rather than "Look at our cool product, it'll be out at the end of the year"
<kvarley> But either way, intrigued by the hole big release thing
<kvarley> How're you all?
<AlanBell> I can't imagine it will be an orderable product today
<kvarley> AlanBell: I was hoping for a downloadable product heh :)
<AlanBell> that wouldn't be very touchable :)
<kvarley> Hehe true
<kvarley> With the direction of Ubuntu moving to TVs and mobile devices I can already sense my wallet thinning out!
 * xnox has a highlight in this channel but it's beyond scrollback horizon
<czajkowski> xnox: in your away log
<xnox> meh, nothing important. (keyword highlight, not nick)
<JamesTait> Happy New Year, folks! :-D
<sprmtt> hippy new beer
<sprmtt> mmm... beer
<kvarley> Interesting, just noticed that the Ubuntu 64-bit server image is "Recommended" on the Ubuntu site whereas the desktop recommends 32-Bit. Why? Is that just because servers are generally 64-bit and desktops in the past were commonly 32-bit?
<popey> I'd look more at the reasons why we recommend 32-bit on desktops than why we recommend 64-bit on servers
<mungojerry> perhaps used to be flash-related (was no 64bit fglash for a while)
<kvarley> popey: Why 32-bit on desktops? :)
<popey> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2012-April/035088.html
<kvarley> Thanks :)
<kvarley> Makes sense I guess
<Azelphur_> https://www.dropbox.com/s/rm6hn2z3gfzp4lr/2013-01-02%2009.50.32.jpg now I'm going to have to put all this together *daunting task* XD
<stgraber> Azelphur_: that looks like Ikea Galant desks
<Azelphur_> yep, many ikea galant desks
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
 * xnox stares at the just delivered nexus 4
<xnox> Laney: ^
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning davmor2
<daubers> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<bashrc> Isn't there supposed to be some sort of announcement today?
<czajkowski> bashrc: yes
<czajkowski> bashrc: you can see the countdown on ubuntu.com
<bashrc> I predict that the announcement will be that Canonical is getting out of the desktop Linux business and getting into the concrete mixing business
<bashrc> 6pm
<popey> âº
<bashrc> but if that prediction fails my fallback hypothesis is just a commercial release of the android/ubuntu phone thing which was demoed last year
<sprmtt> I'd love to be able to use my s3
<bashrc> I havn't really looked into it but I think it is already possible to install ubuntu on an Android tablet
<brobostigon> nexus7, yes.
<bashrc> Unless you can plug in an external monitor/mouse/keyboard it's probably not going to be very viable on a tablet
<bashrc> because regular linux applications aren't designed for touch screens
<popey> indeed
<sprmtt> I've been playing with the idea of getting a nexus 7, but like the tablet I had before, and eventally sold, I just can't find where it would fit in to my digital life
<bashrc> I got an ultra cheap unbranded android tablet last year.  It's pretty awesome and has lots of bells and whistles, but it doesn't replace the sorts of things that I do on a desktop/laptop
<dutchie> things i have found my nexus 7 useful for: light internet usage in bed, taking to classes to save printing things off
<bashrc> for casual browsing, reading the news and reading books tablets are very good
<bashrc> the killer feature is the multi-touch text scaling
<daubers> I can't stand reading books on my nexus
<davmor2> daubers: using the kindle app or the google play books app
<BigRedS> Is anyone aware of a way of having a mysql or similar Nagios config? I'm after a way of *reliably* automating messing around with my nagios config automatically :)
<popey> gosh, USB3 flash drives are cheap
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/386264-extra-value-64gb-usb-3-0-flash-drive-ev-usb64gb-3-0
<davmor2> popey: god bless windows 8 it did something right :D
<popey> it did?
<popey> I've not seen it yet
<bashrc> I thought that windows 8 was supposed to be an abomination
<davmor2> popey: you no longer get a cd/dvd you have to purchase a large 32min/64 recommended gb usb3 pen drive to create a backup medium
 * popey shrugs
<popey> oh
<popey> i see âº
<xnox> BigRedS: check_mk
<davmor2> popey: the rest of it is god awful and I know I had to get a copy to test the U1 windows client on it oh it's ugly
<bashrc> CDs and DVDs seem to be on the way out.  If there are still any boxed products in future they might either be on a USB drive or merely just be a voucher number which you then use to download.
<BigRedS> xnox: Ah, no, I'm looking to replace the config files, not the checks themselves
<BigRedS> xnox: ahh, rereading, that might do it
<BigRedS> ta!
<xnox> BigRedS: it's like you specify hostname -> and that checks it's IP address, queries the client for tonne of stuff it knows how to check for & generates a massive nagios config. I literarly made my nagios configs 10x smaller with ~14x more checks.
<daubers> davmor2: Both, I just can't stand the screen on the nexus for reading. Hurts my eyes. Much prefer the kindle
<davmor2> daubers: quick trick for the kindle app, inverse the colours much easier to read then
<daubers> davmor2: It's the brightness that hurts :) I tried it with inverted colours, still felt worse on my eyes.
<davmor2> daubers: fair enough
<bashrc> Ubuntu on Nexus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9W7E5S5YhE
<BigRedS> xnox: yeah, I'm wondering if that's the proper solution to the problem I was trying to solve with a load of scripts and a db-backed nagios
<xnox> BigRedS: simple things are trivial, medium things are easy, and hard stuff is possible with check_mk (the configs are python). "fancy special custom checks" can be simple tiny shell scripts =). Plus there is full support to call nagios plugins as well.
<BigRedS> yeah, the checks are all simple. The problem is a nagios 1.x install with lots of KB of config file
<BigRedS> and I'm thinking that rather than transcribe these all into nagios 3 style, it would make sense to move them into something portable and generate nagios3 config from that
<BigRedS> and then use that system so when nagios4 comes out I can just output in that format and it's all good
<davmor2> hey popey do you have a raring box around?
<popey> i do
<xnox> BigRedS: I doubt config-incompatible nagios will come any time soon, with multiple engines now supporting the said format: e.g. icinga, shinken and others.
<DJones> Damm, why have I just tried to use the btv remote to change the volume of a programme I'm watching on my laptop...Doh!
<dwatkins> I've moved the mouse pointer to the bottom of the screen to try and press keys on the keyboard before...
<BigRedS> xnox: yeah, I'm hoping not, but at our glacial upgrade speed it's hard to tell what we'll be doing next time this is needed
<TheOpenSourcerer> bug 700154
<lubotu3> bug 700154 in OpenERP Addons 5.0 "Selling a product with phantom BOM ignores chained locations and procurement gets stuck" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/700154
<popey> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> afternoon popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Happy New Year
<popey> HNY to you too!
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Happy new year dude
<TheOpenSourcerer> here is a communal HNY to everyone so I don't have to keep saying it.
 * TheOpenSourcerer does recall writing HNY at about 07:40 this morning when he got to work,.
<TheOpenSourcerer> But not one heard hime.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/him
<diplo> I was delayed by about 20 mins :)
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: you don't think we read scrollback do you, I've got 2 and half weeks of emails to sift through
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 09/01/2013 20:00  | â â â â â â â¿ | HNY
<TheOpenSourcerer> Get a tab and do some mass delete during the holidays.
<dwatkins> That snowman in a fez unicode character is awesome.
* popey changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | next meeting 09/01/2013 20:00  | â â â â â â â¿ | ubuntuî¿ | HNY
<popey> \o/ Unicode Ubuntu
<AlanBell> yay
<Seeker`> o/
<bigcalm> Plink
<popey> plonk
<bigcalm> This piano needs tuning
<bigcalm> NHY and all that jazz, popey
<popey> indeed
<popey> ditto
 * directhex moos
<popey> moo indeed
<sprmtt> who let the cows in here?
 * bigcalm adds a google map with pins of accommodation. Filling time while waiting for hosting companies to change passwords :Z
<sprmtt> oh dear
<sprmtt> a password on your account?
<bigcalm> Are all clients inept?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> Na, client
<sprmtt> oh right
<ubuntubhoy> Anyone here use Blogilo with Unity/Gnome ??
<bigcalm> popey: good, I'm not being singled out then
<mungojerry> hmm 2hrs till that ubuntu announcem,ent
<sprmtt> I do hope it's something cool
<directhex> touchscreen unity, to unite the worlds of ubuntu on desktop, laptop, tablet, and phone
<mungojerry> and a real product to go with it?
<mungojerry> i mean hardware
<mungojerry> tie in
<kvarley> Anybody know where the announcement is taking place and in what form? Are they simply updating the website or are they doing a demo of something in a press release kind of manner?
<popey> it'll be all over news sites
<kvarley> popey: :D nice
<dwatkins> especially in Germany, I gather
<popey> eh?
<popey> http://socloseyoucanalmostbobbleit.com/
<kvarley> haha, why is all I can say to that site
<mungojerry> does it involve a real product, or a concept again?
<mungojerry> i.e ubuntu tv and mobile haven't been carried by any vendors
<sprmtt> why am I looking at jono's face bobbling at me?
<kvarley> mungojerry: Nobody knows. Those that do know aren't allowed to say I imagine.
<ubuntubhoy> more importantly does it involve any downloads ?
<popey> correct
<kvarley> ubuntubhoy: +1
<popey> you'll hear nothing from canonical people until 6pm
<popey> and before that it's wild speculation
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<kvarley> Really nice to see Ubuntu getting so popular, Ubuntu 6.10 seems to far behind Ubuntu now :P
<sprmtt> I'll tell you what, I like the circles thing going on at the bobble site... more of this sort of thing from canonical please
<popey> âº
<popey> I like that too.
<kvarley> Is there a hashtag going on for this event?
<bashrc`> 6.10 was the first Ubuntu version I tried, and it "just worked"
<sprmtt> I'm going to be on the stupid train when this all kicks off
<sprmtt> why can't I have an invite to the event?
<sprmtt> *sulks*
 * kvarley too. I tried 6.04 then got my brother to install 6.10 on my pc :)
<daubers> sprmtt: Everyone knows that canonical will be announcing that popey is to be the new grand chanceller of the world
<kvarley> sprmtt: Mobile data? :)
<dwatkins> 12.10 64-bit pretty much Just Worked for me too ;)
<dwatkins> popey is the new grand Pooh Bear?
<daubers> Yup, all of your honey will belong to him
<sprmtt> kvarley: well, of course
<bashrc`> Maybe they will just announce something like "Big Data is now in The Cloud"
<sprmtt> I guess I could do that, considering I've run out of comics to read this week
<dwatkins> that's ok, I'm on a reduced sugar and carbohydrate diet ;)
<daubers> :p
<bashrc`> or "The Cloud is gathering and raining Big Data onto the consumer Tablet ecosystem"
<bashrc`> I'm just trying to think of buzz terms
<sprmtt> the fewer bad puns this thing has, the better
<bashrc`> nothing about "girls", hopefully
<sprmtt> hurm, the so close thing on the ubuntu website suggests it's certainly something physical that I'll be able to touch tomorrow
<sprmtt> well, maybe not tomorrow, but soon
<kvarley> The best case: hardware with Ubuntu shipping on it  (be it TV, phone, tablet). The good case: Ubuntu for Android download. The bad case: New t-shirt in the shop. The worst case: Canonical trollin' us.
<sprmtt> hey!
<sprmtt> nothing wrong with the t-shirts
<kvarley> I know :) I'm wearing one right now
<popey> me too âº
<sprmtt> maybe it'll be an ubuntu watch, because there's speculation already about an apple watch
<bashrc`> Maybe Shuttleworth will announce his new beard for 2013
<sprmtt> I'm wearing my lucid shirt
<kvarley> popey: :D Are you allowed to wear ubuntu gear to work everyday?
<kvarley> sprmtt: 12.04 shirt here
<popey> of course
<sprmtt> I wish I could have bought a hardy shirt :(
<popey> i have 3 âº
<sprmtt> dammit!
<bashrc`> Maybe a new tablet will be announced called The Ubuntu Slab
<sprmtt> none on ebay
<bashrc`> It would have to be a pinkish, purpleish colour.  Definitely not brown.
<sprmtt> oh god, maybe that's the announcement... canonical are reintroducing the hardy heron t-shirt to the store
<popey> hah
<sprmtt> they could make MILLIONS
<popey> I wish!
<sprmtt> of pennies
<bashrc`> I'd buy that for a dollar
<sprmtt> it'd be nice if there was a brief run of some old merch, just for those of us that couldn't get them the first time around
<bashrc`> 6.10 T-shirt?
<popey> dont think there was a dapper one
<bigcalm> A new background?
<popey> oh, edgy
<bigcalm> Ubuntu on ARM7?
<kvarley> I'd just like to know whether I'll need my wallet handy
<dwatkins> I thought Ubuntu ran on certain ARM chips already
<bashrc`> mine is empty
<bashrc`> although there might be some moths in it
<kvarley> bashrc`: :/
<sprmtt> I just cashed my dad's christmas cheque, so whatever it is could well be mine
<kvarley> I hope they have some sort of bandwidth monitor on ubuntu.com, would be interesting to see how many people load the site after 6
<dwatkins> kvarley: perhaps it's all a ploy to see how many people watch the page and keep refreshing it
<kvarley> dwatkins: Yeah, they just need to test their servers heh
<kvarley> That'd be mean
<kvarley> popey said news sites would be publishing about it tho so it can't be that
<dwatkins> I remember hearing about a launch (BT WirePlay, many years ago) which resulted in the servers going down due to heavy load - this was seen as a win because it 'demonstrated' how popular it was
<popey> my point was that it would be covered by mainstream news sites
<popey> so no, I don't think it's a t-shirt
<dwatkins> I don' think they'd bother with a big launch just for some attire or a new mouse... nice as that mouse is :D
<bashrc`> Maybe it's a commemorative mug
<sprmtt> well it's gotta be the phone then
<bashrc`> like a royal mug, but with a picture of Shuttleworth
<sprmtt> I *really* hope it works with the s3
<kvarley> I'm stuck if it is ubuntu for android
<sagaci> bashrc, I didn't stay up til 5am for a mug
<kvarley> Only have a single core phone
<bigcalm> This count down doesn't quite have the same impact as that for Portal 2
<kvarley> sprmtt: So it's gonna have to be a quick hardware purchase for me if it is
<bashrc`> I didn't see teh countdown for Portal 1
<bigcalm> Was there one for one?
<bashrc`> Maybe
<sprmtt> I don't think so
<sprmtt> portal 1 was orange box, and hl2 and tf2 were thought to be the products everyone would go dolally for
<sprmtt> turns out it was the one with no shooting that people loved
<bashrc`> was it a game?
<sprmtt> huh?
<bigcalm> ...
<bigcalm> I love puzzle games
<sprmtt> well, it's one of the best puzzle games out there
<sprmtt> at least for a pc/console
<sprmtt> and it'll be on linux before this year is out
<bashrc`> I'm strictly a flight sim rivett counter myself
<sprmtt> probably by february
<bigcalm> Would be nice when Ubuntu newer than 12.04 has graphic blobs for ATI
<sprmtt> it would be, but I imagine ATI think there's no point in supporting anything so old
<bashrc`> any kind of deal between Canonical and the graphics card manufacturers which meant genuinely free drivers would be big news
<bashrc`> bad proprietary drivers have been a continuous thorn
<dwatkins> I thought there were already close links there, bashrc` - not sure though
<bigcalm> TBH, I don't care if the driver is free or not. I want to play games in Linux that I would otherwise play in Windows
<bigcalm> This is _a_ reason why people use Ubuntu and not Debian
<dogmatic69> anyone excited yet? almost 1h to go...
<bashrc`> If you don't care about freedom you'll lose it, but anyway free drivers would allow them to be properly maintained
<bigcalm> There are somethings I care about, and there are somethings that I do not. The world isn't made of free
 * dwatkins drives home in order to see the announcement from the comfort of his home office
<bashrc`> I know there is Nouveau, but I think that was achieved despite rather than with the help of the graphics card manufacturers
<DJones> Is the announcement being screened as a webcast anywhere?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> I want 6pm to get here so that I can stop coding in PHP and continue coding in Python
<bigcalm> Such a shame that my RPi isn't up to the job I want it to do
<kvarley> DJones: Unofficial Google+ hangout on omgubuntu.co.uk
<DJones> Shame, I guess I'll just keep hitting refresh on OMGbuntu and try and bring the site down
<bigcalm> DJones: I'm guessing that at 00:00:00, the site will update with an ajax call. You don't need to harm your f5 key
<DJones> Fair point, plus I have to press Function-F5 on this laptop, thats a two finger gesture
<bigcalm> Same here
<bigcalm> Irritating
<DJones> Definately, especially for F2 to edit filenames
<bigcalm> I need to stop buying Hayley pens for Xmas and save the money for a decent laptop
<bigcalm> She loved the Visconti Opera Typhoo btw
<DJones> That sounds like something you should drink
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> Typhoon
<DJones> Heh
<sprmtt> while I don't like the move that defaults function keys to media stuff, etc, I completely understand it
<sprmtt> normal users never touch function keys
<bigcalm> Yummy pen, wish she didn't want it so I could keep it for myself: http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&tbo=d&biw=1400&bih=781&tbm=isch&tbnid=CS_BCZh7mu7LsM:&imgrefurl=http://www.writeherekitenow.co.uk/acatalog/Visconti-Opera-Range.html&docid=XbsdDryVQim_CM&imgurl=http://www.writeherekitenow.co.uk/acatalog/Typhoon_Crystal_Nib13705.jpg&w=705&h=400&ei=O2bkUL75JpOS0QWZ-IBo&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=837&vpy=303&dur=837&hovh=169&ho
<bigcalm> vw=298&tx=161&ty=71&sig=117843636389540489136&page=1&tbnh=137&tbnw=222&start=0&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:14,s:0,i:130
<sprmtt> even less so now that mac style shortcuts are creeping in to windows/linux applications, like ctrl q for quit and ctrl w for close window
<popey> nice url
<sprmtt> wow, that's beautiful
<bigcalm> Ug, http://www.writeherekitenow.co.uk/acatalog/Visconti-Opera-Typhoon-Fountain-Pen.html
<kvarley>  bigcalm: DJones: I can confirm it will reload the page when the countdown reaches 0
<sprmtt> google images does really need a small url option
<kvarley> sprmtt: It has one, but you have to hit the share button iirc
<kvarley> Or it used to
<bigcalm> I can be lazy at times
<kvarley> The new google/youtube layouts are annoying. Since when did >1024x768 resolutions not matter?
<kvarley> All it takes is a little "margin: 0 auto;" love
<sprmtt> since most laptops are now 1336x768(ish)
<sprmtt> I was looking at what I could buy the other day, and if I wanted something that could do higher resolutions, it would mean being forced to use intel graphics
<sprmtt> which is of course terrible for games
<kvarley> 1 hour to go!
<sprmtt> I guess they assume that you're going to plug your laptop into a screen for gaming, but not everyone wants to do that
<bigcalm> I had to downgrade my laptop to 12.04.1. Battery lasts a lot longer once more. And it far less noisy :)
<MartijnVdS> if your battery is noisy.. fear :)
<bigcalm> Hah
<sprmtt> the fans, I assume
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: no, the laptop doesn't get as hot as 12.04 has the correct binary for the ATI graphics
<bashrc`> that's perhaps another reason why graphics drivers should be free
<bashrc`> so that they can be properly integrated with power management
<directhex> much like with the arguments over network drivers, the theory is much better than the practice
<directhex> e.g. ubuntu 10.04 could not be made to output via displayport but not via internal laptop display, with Free intel graphics, unless you used a PPA
<bashrc`> I've never had Intel graphics chips
<MartijnVdS> intel graphics â¥
<bashrc`> How do Intel graphics compare to the rest?  Good/bad/ugly?
<directhex> see also people raving about intel wifi even though it's fundamentally broken
<Azelphur> popey: I broke ikea :(
<directhex> intel hd4000, on the latest chips, is the first time intel is faster at drawing to the screen than a toddler with a box of crayons
<Azelphur> I always break everything xD
<directhex> i'd pick an intel hd4000 ahead of an entry-level radeon
<bashrc`> heh
<popey> hah
<directhex> games are playable, on low detail/resolution. that was never true for older chips.
<Azelphur> when the order arrived the delivery guys were confused because the sum of the list of items to deliver was less than the order total, so they had to call into HQ for advice
<popey> i have no problem with intel wifi here
<popey> 03:00.0 Network controller: Intel Corporation Centrino Wireless-N 1000
<directhex> popey, do you have N disabled?
<Azelphur> said there was 28 items to deliver but only 20 items were listed
<popey> dunno
<Azelphur> and just now I got an email saying they are going to deliver my order on the 8th xD
<Azelphur> when...they already delivered it this morning
<sprmtt> what on earth did you order?
<directhex> there is an AP-dependent bug in the intel drivers that causes them to stop routing packets when connected to 802.11n access points, after an indeterminite amount of time
<popey> delightful
<mgdm> the time in my experience tends to be measured in milliseconds
<directhex> it's near instant on huawei APs (e.g. BT homehub)
<bigcalm> mgdm: an hour can me measured in milliseconds ;)
<mgdm> bigcalm: pedant
<bigcalm> :D
<bigcalm> Oh how I wish I understood how this GearmanBundle worked
<bigcalm> Can I continue with my Python learning please?
<bigcalm> Going to OS the project if anybody wants to point and laugh at my work :)
<Azelphur> apparently they didn't ship me all the legs for no apparent reason
<sprmtt> bigcalm: can we start now to save time?
<bigcalm> sprmtt: when I know you for longer than I have so far, yes
<sprmtt> awww
<sprmtt> ok
<sprmtt> I'll wait
<einonm> so...the new Ubuntu thing is some sort of product?
<MartijnVdS> nah it's just a countdown
<MartijnVdS> It'll go "Oh it's not April 1st yet?"
<einonm> https://twitter.com/LinuxUserMag/status/286527845734432769
<popey> âº
<einonm> My money would be on a steam gaming console. If I had any money.
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bashrc`> could be
<davmor2> einonm: you know that Ubuntu is in itself a product right ;)
<bashrc`> 9 mins
<einonm> davmor2: sure, It's more usual to call a physical thing a 'product', more than a bit of software...wouldn't you say? :)
<ubuntubhoy> nope
<bigcalm> No
<ubuntubhoy> I really hope its a full WM/UI that will work on a touch PC
<ubuntubhoy> without compromise
<popey> join #ubuntu-discuss to join the fun âº
<einonm> popey: thanks. There really are a lot of ubuntu channels, hard to keep up...
<bigcalm> AlanBell: czajkowski: did I give you 2 a URL last year?
<AlanBell> bigcalm: nope
<AlanBell> just a date :)
<daftykins> i spy a swooshing logo
<bashrc`> swooshing?
<daftykins> yeah the ubuntu.com countdown
<soreau> einonm: Ubuntu is a distribution of Linux developed by a company called Canonical
<daftykins> *GNU/Linux
<soreau> A 'Linux distribution' implies GNU
<bashrc`> it's swishing alright
<AlanBell> I think the swooshing logo is supposed to run for 2 minutes then refresh
<daftykins> not really, i could distribute a kernel
<popey> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical
<daftykins> nginx says 'this site is getting hammered'
<bashrc`> Maybe Mark Shuttleworth will announce his latest hairstyle
<AlanBell> 504 Gateway Time-out \o/
<soreau> my browser says the same
<daftykins> guys what's the easiest way to find out what audio driver is being used to run a soundcard?
<soreau> daftykins: lspci or lsmod|grep snd (?)
<daftykins> back about 7 years ago i remember 'lsmod | grep soundcore' but it just shows 'snd' :>
<Myrtti> 504 Gateway timeout! \o/
<Myrtti> choochoo
<soreau> daftykins: lspci -nnnvv
<bashrc`> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpWHJDLsqTU
<daftykins> soreau: thanks, passing on to my friend in need now :>
<bashrc`> Is he going for a Steve Jobs look, do you think?
<kvarley> What is it? Site won't load on my tablet
<daftykins> 'ubuntu phone os'
<jacobw> still guessing?
<kvarley> Download link or is it just coming soon?
<daftykins> well that depends if popey's link is legit
<daftykins> i haven't seen any page load yet so might have to wait until the buzz dies down
<bigcalm> My god that's a dull video
<soreau> All the links on http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ are giving errors, not just the phone os link
<daftykins> yes, because the site's getting rumped
<ubuntubhoy> Best part - current Android handsets should run the OS
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4 trailer âº
<popey> yes, it's a phone OS
<bigcalm> I think it's time to play some Lego Lord of the Rings
<ali1234> so no hardware then?
<daftykins> lol search followed by amazon results
<ubuntubhoy> handsets delivered early 2014. Will the OS be available to test before they are released ?
<ubuntubhoy> on other devices
<daftykins> i can't believe it's not android (TM)
<bashrc`> is it a hacked version of Android?
<ali1234> "now you can spend as long removing annoying crap from your phone as you do on your desktop"
<popey> its not android
<kvarley1> Nice video
<daftykins> ah i'm not claiming it is
<daftykins> it's just a joke
<popey> i didnt say you did
<popey> bashrc` asked
<bashrc`> Does it include GNU tools, not just a java stack?
<daftykins> oh yeah
<kvarley1> Lame that the ubuntu site isn't responding, it's it on the cloud?
<kvarley1> *isn't it on the cloud?
<mgdm> being 'on the cloud' isn't an automatic fix for scalability
<ubuntubhoy> popey: any idea when test 'ROM's' will be available for current devices ?
<popey> ask in #ubuntu-discuss
<ubuntubhoy> K
<daftykins> kvarley1: just imagine how many geeks were poised to see the site and are now hammering F5
<kvarley1> Hehe, true
<kvarley1> Great news for the start of the year anyway :D
<einonm> The Ubuntu developer site has some more details... http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<daftykins> rushing us toward saturation point on phone OSs and app markets =[
<ali1234> "Ubuntu QML"
<ali1234> lolololol
<bigcalm> daftykins: until recently, we had a different OS for nearly every handset. There are a few main ones now, I don't think the market is saturated
<bigcalm> The dev site does show some nice things. Shame my personal time is now taken up with learning Python :)
<kvarley1> Not sure how Ubuntu Phone OS will compete with android or ios devices in terms of app availability
<daftykins> i suppose at least the competition might trim them down
<bashrc`> Ok, so is this a phone running free software, or some horrible iPhone-style prison?
<ali1234> both
<kvarley1> This explains the web apps introduction in unity anyway :)
<jacobw> kvarley1: it does?
<ali1234> yes, it does
<ali1234> because html5 is a supported way to make "apps" for this
<ali1234> and that needs web apps integration to be half decent
 * jacobw thinks app developers wouldn't learn GObject anyway
<ali1234> not a chance
<ali1234> luckily the native way is QML based
<ali1234> so you might get a lot of ex-symbian and maemo devs
<mgdm> QML?
<mgdm> Qt?
<ali1234> yeah "Ubuntu QML"
<mgdm> ah
<ali1234> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<ali1234> which is Qt 5
<jacobw> qt ftw
<mgdm> ah ha
<bashrc`> Compatible with Android drivers
<bashrc`> Well that was all jolly interesting, but it leaves more questions than it answers
<soreau> yea
<bashrc`> Is this really free software on a phone, similar to Android?
<popey> ask questions in #ubuntu-discuss
<einonm> So how does the revenue stream for Canonical work for this phone OS?
<soreau> popey: I see how ya are, post the link then say no one can discuss it
<popey> did I say cant discuss it?
<soreau> +here
<popey> or did I point to the place where lots of people are discussing it?
<popey> rather than have to copy/paste answers
<soreau> You're the one that started the discussion for it here
<popey> or re-type them
<daftykins> really takes allsorts doesn't it ;)
<soreau> yep
<daftykins> no i was more remarking on your attitude :P
<bashrc`> I didn't quite grok whether this was the phone/desktop combo or not.
<soreau> I was agreeing
<jacobw> semantics
<daftykins> guys what would you do if you had a customer wanting to host 4 domains? i'm thinking a VPS or hosted VM would be overkill for that
<kvarley1> daftykins: Could go with a managed host provider?
<daftykins> control panel based, they handle the backend sort of thing?
<kvarley1> daftykins: Yes
<daftykins> yeah i think that might be plenty
<kvarley1> daftykins: That way the hosting company handles all updates, etc so there is less to worry about in terms of maintenance and security if you're with a good firm
<daftykins> yip
<daftykins> i was helping a friend with a VPS try and lockdown his setup so he could host multiple clients sites whilst providing access to update, started with SCP only access but it got pretty messy
<daftykins> and you could get root access pretty easily via cunning PHP use and so on
<daftykins> i helped secure some elements but i don't think it ever got 'safe' - cba with that kind of hassle
<kvarley1> The ubuntu phone os trailer misses the point entirely
<kvarley1> Doesn't show that you can dock it and use desktop mode
<bashrc`> can you do that?
<bashrc`> it didn't seem clear to me
<kvarley1> bashrc`: OMGUbuntu says so
<kvarley1> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical
<bashrc`> In that case if it is a phone/desktop combo then that makes it more interesting
<popey> it's a phone first
<kvarley1> I was disappointed until I read that article
<kvarley1> Not disappointed
<popey> not sure it will do the desktop dock thing out of the box
<popey> might do
<kvarley1> Just not thrilled
<kvarley1> The interface looks slick either way
<kvarley1> The support for HTML5 apps gets me excited
<jacobw> i've been dreaming a phone that can be a tiny desktop for a long time
<bashrc`> The interface looks like Android
<kvarley1> Hope this event pushes a deal with manufacturers through
<ubuntubhoy> Samsung should be rich pickings
<ubuntubhoy> but Nokia could be ideal when WP8 fails to spark their business
<kvarley1> If they did a deal with Samsung I'd be stoked
<popey> that would be cool
<kvarley1> Especially with the success of the S3 people would consider an Ubuntu phone if it was done right by them
<kvarley1> Will be interesting to see what devices get the OS ported
<daftykins> the times they are a-changin'
<kvarley1> :)
<kvarley1> I wonder if you'll be able  to sudo on it ;)
<ubuntubhoy> I would guess the Nexus devices would be first choice
<ubuntubhoy> more open
<daftykins> the vid did look like the Nexus 4 / Galaxy Nexus with the charging/dock pins on the side
<ubuntubhoy> might have to pick up a second hand GNex now
<kvarley1> Depends on how good the ports run on the devices, but I may have to buy a nexus purely for ubuntu phone os
<daftykins> i'd say don't touch a handset with <2GB RAM now
<kvarley1> A15 based tablet anybody?
<popey> soreau: apologies, I didn't mean to shut down discussion, just wanted to make sure people knew there was another channel. sorry
<kvarley1> Haha, a comment on omgubuntu sums up my response to the unveiling - "Shut up and take my symbolic money!"
<ali1234> so is there hardware for this, or not?
<bashrc`> Symbolic money?
<popey> not yet
<popey> there will be a preview image out soon
<popey> for people to install on a nexus i think
<ubuntubhoy> Have to say I am a little sad it was not a full touch UI announcement
<popey> or some other blessed device
<popey> it _is_ a full touch UI!
<ubuntubhoy> Gnex I would lay cash on
<ubuntubhoy> popey: not for the desktop it aint
<ali1234> so just like ubuntu tv and ubuntu for android, it will never ship on real hardware...
<popey> how else would you use a phone
<popey> we'll see ali1234
<bashrc`> yes, this looks like a touch UI version of Ubuntu
<ubuntubhoy> but NOT FOR THE DESKTOP - linux sucks on touch devices
<DJones> Hopefully it'll be suitable for dual boot on a Galaxy S3
<ali1234> desktops don't have touch interfaces
<ubuntubhoy> and thats the problem
<ali1234> no, that's a very good thing because touch interfaces are limited and stupid
<bashrc`> whether this is a desktop combo seemed vague to me.  There are some allusions, but not much other than that.
<ubuntubhoy> ali1234: depends on the situation
<ali1234> the situation?
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<ubuntubhoy> I like touch interface
<ali1234> the situation is ai have a computer with a 24" monitor, keyboard, and mouse
<ubuntubhoy> so I multi-boot with Win8 and Android & Linux
<ali1234> why the hell would i want to put a touch interface on that?
<bashrc`> mouse driven apps and touch driven apps are really separate magisteria
<ali1234> they are totally different
<ubuntubhoy> but I have a touch enabled netbook & I want it
<ubuntubhoy> dif situation
<ali1234> touch is really only suitable for 10" screen or less
<ali1234> something that is... mobile
<ubuntubhoy> nope
<ali1234> if you are constrained because you don't want to carry a fullsize keyboard and mouse... then touch is the next best thing
<ubuntubhoy> touch can be better
<ali1234> no, it can't
<ubuntubhoy> and far simpler
<ubuntubhoy> of course it can
<ubuntubhoy> you see, you touch
<ubuntubhoy> how a child learns
<ali1234> hah. more like, "you don't see because your hand is in the way of the screen"
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<sprmtt> yo
<bashrc`> http://www.jonobacon.org/2013/01/02/announcing-ubuntu-for-phones/
<bashrc`> does appear to show a combo setup
<popey> it would make sense to have the ability to run desktop when you dock it, sure.
<bashrc`> that would be something really new, and I think it would make a lot of sense in terms of convergence
<bashrc`> I can imagine businesses wanting that type of device
<ubuntubhoy> Is this all because Ubuntu for Android was never taken up by OEM's ?
<popey> nope
<popey> UfA is incredibly popular
<popey> takes a while to get to market though
<ubuntubhoy> hmm
<popey> I'd expect we would have a UfA phone this year
<ubuntubhoy> does it not kind of conflict then ?
<popey> well, some manufacuturers will want android, so adding our velvet on top of that gives them extra features
<popey> other manufacturers explicitly don't want android, or want something else
<ubuntubhoy> I get what you are saying
<bashrc`> I think Android is now shipping on 43% of all computing hardware
<ubuntubhoy> but if I was an OEM, why bother with UOS for phone, Put Android on it (proven track record) and have ability to run Ubuntu for Android, so a best of both
<ubuntubhoy> unless Ubuntu for Android will be restricted
<ubuntubhoy> compared to UOS
<ali1234> i'd say it's more likely to be the other way around
<ubuntubhoy> which part?
<ali1234> UfA is a full linux system running X
<ali1234> at the moment it is anyway
<ali1234> it runs under hardware virtualization
<ali1234> it can't directly touch the phone's radios
<ali1234> wich means anything goes pretty much
<ali1234> it ca't even indirectly touch them actually
<ali1234> it has to use an API that exposes functions like "make call", "list SMS messages"
<ali1234> the real phone OS otoh, can do things like send AT commands to the radio
<ali1234> which makes hardware vendors nervous
<ubuntubhoy> So U for A is more restricted then ?
<ali1234> not so much restricted as "forced to implement restrictions"
<ali1234> it's kind of complicated and hard to explain
<ali1234> but the typical phone has components from so many different companies... and they are all incredibly paranoids of eachother
<ali1234> you might think nokia and samsung design the entire phone (or used to) but they never did really. they licensed stuff from qualcomm etc. they will never admit it though, and qualcomm wouldn't allow them to if they wanted
<ubuntubhoy> I can understand that
<ubuntubhoy> so, for argument sake. U for A is simply an 'app'
<ali1234> so when you're running UfA in virtual environment, well, nobody cares. you don't need drivers, documentation, NDAs, and DRM security
<ali1234> yes, i suppose
<sprmtt> ooh, there's quite an interesting look at what the new icon theme might be like
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> ubuntubhoy: another way to look at it is like UfA can't run android apps, right? but android can. therefore android needs to have an evil DRM system in it and UfA doesn't
<ali1234> and DRM can be considered a limitation
<ubuntubhoy> a point well put
<ali1234> for android apps substitute "anything sold on the play store" -so books, music and video as well
<ubuntubhoy> yeah
<ubuntubhoy> that does bring up another discussion though. Content providers want DRM
<ali1234> yes, and because content providers want it, hardware manufactures have to provide it
<ubuntubhoy> In the same way that networks want locked handsets
<ali1234> which means the OS has to support it, if they will use it
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<ali1234> maemo had exactly the same problem 2 years ago :)
<ubuntubhoy> or they code their own apps for 'playback'
<ali1234> it's no even down to that
<ali1234> DRM has to be hardware level for them to even consider it
<ali1234> ARM has systems far "worse" than UEFI, and any mobile OS that wants to be successful has to enable their use
<ali1234> so for example, the N900 doesn't have any real DRM
<ali1234> but the N950 did
<ali1234> the blessed nokia image is signed, and if you run a custom firmware on it, you can't watch protected content you bought on the blessed image
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ali1234> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r08dFQQ2uZI
<ubuntubhoy> Anyway, going off topic. How the bloody hell do I get spell check working in Blogilo under Unity/gnome ??
<ubuntubhoy> at work ali1234 - cant watch vids
<ali1234> ^ that presentation was always... tense
<ubuntubhoy> hate working this time of year - too many drunks
<ali1234> popey: is the mobile UI QML based or is that just for apps?
<ali1234> how much code shared with desktop unity? does it use nux?
<ali1234> this UI does actually look quite good
<ali1234> lol is that really how you say "sepia"? i always pronounce it like "seepia"?
<ali1234> hey it's rafe
<notKlaatu> holy cow, an ubuntu phone. i'm excited.
<ali1234> no, an ubuntu phone OS
<notKlaatu> there, just wanted to say it in a channel where i wouldn't be shot down. that is all.
<ali1234> sorry
<notKlaatu> hey, whatever. a full linux distro taht can be put on a mobile device. that's cool to me.
<ali1234> it's not exactly the first
<jacobw> freerunner :o
<notKlaatu> oh, well it was news to me
<notKlaatu> oh yeah, yeah
<notKlaatu> well i guess it's not that big a deal after all.
<ali1234> "ubuntu is the leading linux on ARM" - nope
<ubuntubhoy> Sweet - GNex sorted
<ubuntubhoy> now to wait for first release
<ali1234> presumably the voice stuff is based on HUD too
<ubuntubhoy> I also wonder why announce now when they don't expect to ship anything till 2014
<popey> time to market is long in the mobile phone industry
<popey> also CES next week âº
<ali1234> CES is for games consoles
<ali1234> MWC is where the phones be at
<popey> CES is for TVs
<popey> we'll be at both
<ali1234> ah yeah that's true. i forgot about TVs
<ali1234> so is any of this stuff actually available to download?
<popey> not yet, "soon"
<ali1234> what about ubuntu TV?
<ali1234> and UfA?
<popey> UfA is still in discussion with networks / ODMs
<ubuntubhoy> DOWNLOAD ALL THE THINGS!!!
<ali1234> i mean the source code?
<popey> I'm confident we'll get that on a handset by the end of the year
<popey> not yet
<ali1234> none of it?
<popey> well its mostly ubuntu desktop
<davmor2> ali1234: technically C(onsumer) E(lectronics) S(how) is for any consumer electronics ;)
<popey> and android
<ali1234> no, ubuntu TV!
<popey> yeah, there's a couple of community guys working on it
<ali1234> so if i take a PC and a dvb tuner and a TV, i can make an "ubuntu TV" today?
<ali1234> and it will do all the stuff in the video?
<ali1234> i can't remember if ther was actually a video or not for ubuntu TV
<directhex> popey, crazy time to market is what killed nokia's mobile linux platforms
<ubuntubhoy> and has not helped WP8 either
<ali1234> directhex: to be fair they did got through 5 iterations of hardware before they even had something they seriously tried to sell
<ubuntubhoy> announced too long before availability
<ali1234> over the course of about 6 years
<MartijnVdS> Woo, Ubuntu is on Dutch news as well: http://nos.nl/artikel/457649-ubuntu-stapt-in-telefoonmarkt.html
<popey> i haven't kept up with what the ubuntu tv guys are doing
<popey> they lurk in #ubuntu-tv tho
<ali1234> "They havenât even formally announced Ubuntu TV yet." is that true?
<ali1234> if so, fair enough
<popey> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ is back
<ali1234> back? it went away?
<ali1234> i'm pretty happy about the QML thing btw
<ali1234> Gtk just doesn't cut it for app development
<popey> yeah, the box had a kicking
<ali1234> i wish you'd dropped unity/compiz/nux and just gone with unity-qml
<ali1234> compiz is so buggy it's not even funny any more
<popey> yeah, i kinda wish we did too
<sprmtt> I actually tried tf2 in unity for the fist time since before the recent patch, and there's a massive difference
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey .. the main bud reported with the Ubuntu-TV guys is the resizing of the Thunderbird window... including dialogue boxes.
<popey> hah
<ali1234> what does that have to do with TV?
<ubuntubhoy> Thunderbirds was a great show
<ubuntubhoy> TV enough ?
<ali1234> i thought ubuntu tv was just a lens basically?
<ali1234> still, someone has to do something about mythtv
<ali1234> i mean it works
<ali1234> but the UI is horrible
<ali1234> mythweb makes it just about usable
<oimon> just watched the ubuntu annoncement video with youtube subtitles
<oimon> would have been nice if the uploader had included a proper subtitle track, shuttleworth kept talking about clinton on the video
<solarcloud_3scrn> oimon.. What'z the Web-Link for the announcement announcement vidz ??
<daftykins> you want the youtube trailer link?
<solarcloud_3scrn> surething...
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4
<solarcloud_3scrn> opening...
<solarcloud_3scrn> BY today's standards.. the south african's would say it's like gathering up as much source material as possible and making a kinda Frankenstein's mobile phone. I mean all these tolkein adaptations of writings from the silmarillion are not available on .mobi  [as @ 0:23in the vidz] .. So aaaggaain they've missed the 'get it & get on with it' boat. IMHO.
<solarcloud_3scrn> ***...e South African's would... se Tolkein ada....
<solarcloud_3scrn> scanning for .mobi ....
<solarcloud_3scrn> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia/ebook_formats
<solarcloud_3scrn> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/guide/ebooks
<solarcloud_3scrn> Does anyone know if this news is cross-refeenced here :::: http://ebookee.org/dl/linux-format/ (???)
<AlanBell> ooh solarcloud_3scrn, thanks for the post :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> np .. glad for the DVD .. :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, Buy ypour self another Packt publishing book [ http://www.packtpub.com/books/all?utm_source=Packt+Publishing&utm_campaign=65c02c9900-Final_5_eBook_part_212_21_2012&utm_medium=email&mc_cid=65c02c9900&mc_eid=0a475b6109 ]
<solarcloud_3scrn> **yourself
<solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, What do you think of this one, for example ??? http://www.packtpub.com/gnome-3-application-development-beginners-guide/book
<ali1234> wat
<AlanBell> I kind of think most programming books have had their time (at least for me)
<AlanBell> I would rather refer to online documentation and code that exists
<solarcloud_3scrn> Yeah, they mostly get you to give neiche comments anyway ...
<solarcloud_3scrn> e.g. [ http://www.packtpub.com/article/submit-book-cover-images ]
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. I gave a comment on the amazon rocky nook about Vuescan once about having a redbook coffeetable cover .. and all I got back was some Yank telling me how sorry the lateness of the relpy was because of a funeral . They call it a funeral over there.
<ali1234> solarcloud_3scrn: are you just saying random things?
<ali1234> (again)
<solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, Ta shen dty churrym hene.
<ali1234> how does the GNex compare with SGS 1 2 and 3?
<ali1234> i have SGS 1 and it runs the latest android fine... i don't think the later SGS are really all that more powerful...
<ali1234> tl;dr is ubuntu gonna run well on my SGS1?
<ubuntubhoy> Gnex compares roughly with the S2
<ubuntubhoy> the original SGS was comparable with the Galaxy nexus
<ubuntubhoy> oops
<ubuntubhoy> the Nexus S even
<daftykins> graphics core no doubt jumps each time
<daftykins> the SGS2 is still a very capable phone
<ubuntubhoy> S1 was single core, S2 dual core, and S3 is quad core
<ubuntubhoy> daftykins: very miuch so
<ubuntubhoy> -i
<ali1234> i see.
<ubuntubhoy> Also, can't remember exactly, but the RAM will also have changed through the devices
<solarcloud_3scrn> ali1234, You're obvoiusly not a bowler .. http://cnettv.cnet.com/the-404/
<daftykins> yeah 2GB i think on the S3
<daftykins> 1GB on the S2
<ubuntubhoy> possible 512 on the S then
<daftykins> i bought an S2 for someone off amazon, new for Â£260 delivered not long ago
<ubuntubhoy> I just sold mine
<daftykins> :D
<ubuntubhoy> was a great phone
<ubuntubhoy> had no issues, just fancied something else
<ubuntubhoy> the JB leak runs fantastic on the S2
<daftykins> i think it might still get jelly-bean eh?
<ubuntubhoy> defo
<ubuntubhoy> coming this month iirc
<daftykins> which is impressive given its' age
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> just put cyanogen mod on it?
<ali1234> or is that only on SGS?
<daftykins> i have an HTC Desire myself =/ stuck in 150MB /data partition hell >_<
<daftykins> makes it absolutely useless
<ubuntubhoy> CM runs for most devices now
<ali1234> SGS has 512mb, nexus 7 has 1gb
<ubuntubhoy> I ,love my N7
<ali1234> i can't really see any speed difference between them tbh
<ali1234> i too love my N7
<ali1234> so much that i don't even want to put ubuntu on it
<ubuntubhoy> I have had Ubuntu, Bodhi & Plasma Active on mine
<ali1234> plasma active is just awful
<ubuntubhoy> got to have a look though
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> i'll try ubuntu when someone makes it dual boot
<ubuntubhoy> being able to nandroid backup to external usb disks is fantastic
<ubuntubhoy> easy to get your Android back
<ali1234> yeah?
<ubuntubhoy> yip
<ali1234> i'll remember that then
<ubuntubhoy> TWRP recovery
<ali1234> i need to get a OTG cable
<ubuntubhoy> great things
<ali1234> i use clockwork mod lol
<ubuntubhoy> TWRP FTW
<ali1234> dunno if it's available for N7
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, it's what I use
<ali1234> i mean CM
<ubuntubhoy> yeah, that is too
<ubuntubhoy> I use Paranoid Android though
<ubuntubhoy> as I prefer tablet interface
<ali1234> does N7 have any booby traps like the stupid SGS nvram.bin stuff?
<ubuntubhoy> none I am aware of
<ali1234> i was using a phone with no IMEI for like a year
<ubuntubhoy> only issue is the 16G model can slow down with less than 2-3G spare
<ali1234> i didn't notice until the network started disconnecting me all the time
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ubuntubhoy> even worse is the Samsung brick bug in the kernel
<ali1234> had to use an extremely dodgy dutch internet service to get the IMEI restored
<ubuntubhoy> you should really backup the IMEI on all Samsung devices before tinkering
<ali1234> yeah, i know that *now* lol
<daftykins> isn't it just a # in hardware?
<ali1234> daftykins: no, it's a number in a signed file in a protected nvram partition
<daftykins> how tedious
<ali1234> when you reflash, if you do *something* then the OS rejects the signed file, then helpfully wipes it for you
<ali1234> so you can't even go back if you didn't back up the file
<daftykins> my head almost started to spin when i saw all the different 5+ sequences of letters in samsung ROM names
<ubuntubhoy> lol
<ali1234> XXJPY
<daftykins> sounds like a motherboard of a friends which has conveniently lost its' onboard LAN MAC address
<mgdm> XYZZY
<daftykins> under Linux it just keeps getting a new auto-gen'd MAC each time, so you can never network past reboots
<daftykins> eventually i locked the MAC down in the config, very weird
<ali1234> you can fix that with a kernel param
<ali1234> or some config, yes
<daftykins> think i did it in /etc/network/interfaces
<mgdm> I had a machine where that was needed too
<daftykins> weird aren't they? BIOS updates don't even cure it
<ali1234> probably you can get a tool from the motherboard/network card vendor
<ali1234> probably it only works in dos though
<daftykins> you can read the real MAC off by enabling PXE boot too
<daftykins> the screen'll show you it to write down :>
<ali1234> BIOS != network card firmware
<daftykins> true
<jacobw> ok, self interaction managed
<Azelphur> operation room sized desk is going relatively well, 40% done, gotta wait till the 8th now till ikea delivers the rest of my legs https://www.dropbox.com/s/z4zvuejgmpyrhvu/2013-01-02%2022.28.06.jpg XD
<popey> wont the legs get in the way?
<popey> of eachother and your legs
<Azelphur> they won't get in the way of eachother, as for me, the front desk is 60cm deep
<Azelphur> so I doubt those back pair will get in the way
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2012/December/layout.png is the finished layout, so my legs would go underneath the extension top.
<Azelphur> (red dots are legs)
<popey> ahh the legs go the other way, i see
<Azelphur> :D
<solarcloud_3scrn> Azelphur, Viking chair .. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Shared%20Pics/viking%20chair.jpg
<Azelphur> nice :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> Anyone walkin' the ledge at the moment ? https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Shared%20Pics/walkin%27%20ledge%20at%20Xmas.jpg
<Azelphur> http://www.officechairsplace.com/media/catalog/product/cache/2/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_5368.jpg is the chair I have :)
<Azelphur> tis funny because everywhere sells them for like Â£800+, I paid nowhere near that.
<solarcloud_3scrn> opening...
<solarcloud_3scrn> What was the bill ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> I imagine they farm billions of them.
<Azelphur> I think it was like Â£200
<solarcloud_3scrn> Mine was Â£35  .. I could have ot 6 chairs for Â£210.00
<Azelphur> hehe
<solarcloud_3scrn> Best thing  is .. there's no plastic so it's not noxious.
<Azelphur> gotta go anyway, brothers invited me over for takeout chicken xD
<neuro> oh dear
<solarcloud_3scrn> hope it'snot dominoes.  chicken wings suck balls, mann.
<neuro> i just found out what was announced today
 * neuro is unimpressed
<neuro> laggy awful unusable UI from the looks of it
<neuro> if it makes more than a 0.1% dent in the mobile market, i'll be surprised
<solarcloud_3scrn> neuro, did you read my tolkein comment earlier  ??
<neuro> um, no?
<solarcloud_3scrn> I'll check the logg ... hang-on.
<solarcloud_3scrn> ... the U-Phone... BY today's standards.. the South African's would say it's like gathering up as much source material as possible and making a kinda Frankenstein's mobile phone. I mean all these Tolkein adaptations of writings from the silmarillion are not available on .mobi  [as @ 0:23in the vidz] .. So aaaggaain they've missed the 'get it & get on with it' boat. IMHO.
<neuro> ok? :)
<neuro> i haven't actually watched the ubuntu video yet, will do that now
<neuro> christ, it's 21 minutes long
<solarcloud_3scrn> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoXpLUr5WB4 .. like 1min.
<neuro> oh, i'm watching the video at http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone
<neuro> sabdfl is trying to be steve jobs in this video
<neuro> "we have stuff to announce, but here's what we've done recently"
<solarcloud_3scrn> Are you actually watching the long version ?
<neuro> yup
<popey> 23:39:15 < neuro> laggy awful unusable UI from the looks of it
<popey> nope
<popey> <- has used it
<neuro> looked laggy on the verge hands on
<popey> yeah, saw that
<popey> *shrug*
<ali1234> you can't really judge laggy or not without using it
<ali1234> to be perfectly honest :)
<popey> its the law that demos will fail
<neuro> and swipe from right side only to switch apps?
<ali1234> i mean you can't tell from video if it's responsive or not... if you're not actually in control
<neuro> so if i'm running 20 apps i have to swipe 19 times to the right to the to the last one instead of once to the left?
<ali1234> ever watch a video of someone playing a game and get frustrated cos they can't do it properly?
<ali1234> it's the same thing
<neuro> ali1234: the guy seemed to know what he was doing
<ali1234> blah, doesn't matter
<ali1234> same thing applies
<ali1234> responsiveness of a UI is a very subjective thing
<neuro> it looked a touch unresponsive to me
<bashrc`> not really
<ali1234> i see what you did there lol
<neuro> ha
<neuro> i didn't even mean to do that :)
<bashrc`> if something takes longer than a couple of hundred milliseconds it will be judged laggy
<neuro> and the swipe down thing looks like a terrible idea
<neuro> the swipe targets are TINY
<ali1234> 100ms = 2.5 frames of web video
<ali1234> so really, you can't judge from that
<ubuntubhoy> you cant really judge anything till you use it - unless it's really bad
<ali1234> i am totally reserving judgment until i use it
<bashrc`> the range 50-300 milliseconds is about the "speed of thought"
<ali1234> though it does look like it has potential
<popey> the swipe targets are not tiny
<popey> the guy used it wrong âº
<neuro> how did he use it wrong?
<cocoa117> with ubuntu 12.04, and dash search, can you search deep in your local home folder? at the moment i can only see few results
<ubuntubhoy> I will reserve judgement till the GNes I just bought turns up and I use it
<popey> he tried to pull down from the individual notifications
<ubuntubhoy> GNex*
<popey> which are tiny
<bashrc`> but anyway it won't be out for a year so there is plenty of time for refinements
<cocoa117> what do u guys using for deep and file content searching?
<popey> if you have very pointy fingers, sure, try that
<popey> but there is another way
<ali1234> gotta say i love android 4.2
<popey> you pull down a little bit and it gives you bigger targets and you swipe left/right to hit them
<popey> its easy
<ali1234> with all the swiping down menus
<neuro> popey: i just saw that in the keynote video
<neuro> still not sure about it
<ali1234> not so keen on left/right swiping especially on the edges because it's hard to trigger if the phon has even a small bezel on it
<solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, Was there a note in with the envelope or did you just see the money note ??
<ali1234> also prefer the one button to just go to the application list
<neuro> and bezel size is handset dependent
<ali1234> yes, exactly
<ali1234> so 4.2 lockscreen on my SGS fails
<ali1234> because you can't swipe left/right from the edges easily
<ali1234> because it has a small bezel with a raised edge
<popey> time for bed
<popey> nn
<neuro> nn popey-san
<ali1234> on the nexus 7 it is fine because it has a large bezel and no raised edge
<ali1234> though i still don't really like the concept of multiple lock screens... seems pointless to me
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-03
<neuro> i can't believe what was just said in this video
<neuro> "for the first time, you'll have all the security of UNIX in your pocket"
<neuro> oh, so iphone and android phones don't have the security of UNIX?
<ali1234> and maemo
<ali1234> and tizen
<ali1234> and bada
<neuro> totally
<ali1234> and the razr OS
<neuro> i think people forget that android = linux and ios = bsd
<ali1234> also "ubuntu is the leading linux on ARM"
<neuro> hee
<ali1234> people wilfully deny that android = linux
<ali1234> these people are just flat out wrong. there is no reasonable definition of linux which excludes android but includes everything else
<neuro> ok, watching the 1 min video now
<ali1234> not even incorrect but widely accepted ones
<ali1234> such as "linux = X11"
<ali1234> or "linux = gnu"
<ali1234> see wayland and busybox for why
<ddfgt> hi
<ddfgt> hii
<ddfgt> someone here?
<popey> ddfgt: ya
<ddfgt> hii popey
<ddfgt> i try to sort a lines in a file by pattern
<ddfgt> you know how i can do it?
<ging> why is popey still here?
<ging> you are not normally one of the night creatures
<soreau> ddfgt: man sort
<popey> cat infile | sort > outfile
<popey> can't sleep ging
<soreau> popey: Why not sort infile > outfile?
<popey> or that âº
<popey> unnecessary use of cat
 * soreau used to do it all the time when learning grep
<Azelphur> popey: got myself up on park of the desk, :D
<ddfgt> soreau, now it is almost morning here..
<popey> heh
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/4u2coxkzayrpna6/2013-01-03%2002.23.36.jpg
<ging> atleast you have a cat
<popey> nice
<ging> i have seen photos of it
<Azelphur> :)
<popey> he is asleep next to me
<popey> taunting me
<soreau> Azelphur: I like that black surface
<soreau> Azelphur: Just setup a camera so we can watch you put it together live ;)
<Azelphur> yea, it's nice :D
<Azelphur> soreau: haha, that sounds like it'd be a comedy about how weak I am xD
<ddfgt> i try to sorting with the number after <bbb> as the key
<ging> need moar screen!
<soreau> Azelphur: lol
<ddfgt> if no <bbb> is present then assume 0
<soreau> Azelphur: So when do you get the rest of it?
<Azelphur> on the 8th
<soreau> slackers
<soreau> Azelphur: That radiator you have is probably better than the one on my truck ;)
<Azelphur> soreau: haha, it does ambient cool my i7 at stock xD
<neuro> doo de doo de doo
<neuro> popey: i can't sleep either, if it's any consolation
<Bernte> Is it possible that full disk encryption is a really battery hog? The fan seems to always be running on my ZenBook and the battery power goes like nothing.
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<hoover> good morning all & happy new year
<kvarley> Can anybody recommend a good guide for using irssi as a service? With screen or whatever. popey I know you use it :)
<kvarley> hoover: You too :)
<mungojerry> has anyone seen 13.01 touchy turtle in landscape mode? how does the launcher work?
<mungojerry> stupid john lewis cancelled delivery of my large appliance because they had cancelled it without telling me grrr
<mungojerry> mrs mungojerry wasted a whole day
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<dwatkins> ello folks
<dwatkins> kvarley: in what way do you mean 'as a service'?
<kvarley> dwatkins: Realised I can just run it on my Pi via screen and  that should work fine :) I just meant running it via screen basically so it would run even if I wasn't actively looking at it in terminal
<dwatkins> kvarley: that's essentially what I do, but via a BSD box in another continent - I reattach to the screen session in which I run irssi and other things.
<dwatkins> You can set screen up to run an app by default in a particular window, but the bare minimum you need to know is how to start, detach and reattach to screen, and how to navigate in irssi - if you're looking for fun ways to make screen look nicer see my latest blog entry: http://rowla.dyndns.org/blog
<kvarley> Thanks dwatkins :)
<Myrtti> tmux > screen
<Myrtti> if for nothing else, then for better utf8 support
<dwatkins> I should probably switch to tmux, perhaps I should write a conversion document with keystrokes and all.
<dwatkins> I like that tmux uses a different control key by default, so as to avoid confusion when nesting one inside the other.
<Myrtti> Ive just configured it to work the same as screen
<mungojerry> wow john lewis are being jerks
<dwatkins> I discovered loads of fun little features in Screen recently, like the coloured backtick outputs in the article I wrote about.
 * kvarley is now using irssi =)
<KnightWork> morrrning !
<sprmtt> ok, so my question is this: there was talk of writing your apps for the phone in C, and using QML to modify the interface based on device type, but what of existing techs? Will people still be able to use quickly and PyGTK, etc?
<KnightATwork> I was wondering if you could just install apps from the store straight on the phone.
<sprmtt> I would assume so
<bashrc> Has anyone tried the mobile development tools yet?
<KnightATwork> sprmtt: it sounds pretty exciting. and it should work on the current Galaxy Nexus
<sprmtt> not yet
<KnightATwork> (not the LG one) ...
<KnightATwork> the Samsung one
<sprmtt> I wanna know if it's going to work on my galaxy s3
<sprmtt> considering that's *the* big phone at the moment, I'd have thought canonical would be trying for that
<KnightATwork> sprmtt: the S3 is not so easy to root and rom as the nexus series
<sprmtt> if this announcement was made a few months ago, it really would have swayed my smart phone choice :(
<KnightATwork> haha :) I have got a nexus , but i'm probably not buying the nexus 4 anytime soon
<KnightATwork> anyone here going to Fossdem ?
 * popey points KnightATwork at czajkowski 
<KnightATwork> czajkowski: ! aha .. i was thinking about turning up with a cameracrew this year for knightwise.com
<KnightATwork> looking for some intervieweeeeezz
 * czajkowski loves fosdem 
<KnightATwork> czajkowski: thats because its packed with strappingly attractive belgians
<popey> [citation needed]
<KnightATwork> I am all the citation you need to prove that point :p
<czajkowski> KnightATwork: I go for white chocolate, waffles and geeks :)
<czajkowski> but you knw each to their own :)
 * KnightATwork will show up with a waffle a bar of chocolate and an angry birds T-shirt
<czajkowski> heh cool
<czajkowski> there is usually an ubuntu booth as well
<czajkowski> gets rather busy
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<KnightATwork> czajkowski: aha. interesting. i'm gonna dig around a little bit and try to get some press credentials to get in.
<KnightATwork> hey brobostigon !
<brobostigon> hey KnightATwork
<czajkowski> KnightATwork: it's a free and open event to anyone and everyone
<czajkowski> it gets very busy
<czajkowski> been before?
<KnightATwork> no , not yet ,
<KnightATwork> and I have no excuse :p
<KnightATwork> Since I live only 70 km from brussels
<czajkowski> ahhh
<czajkowski> Knightwise: the last couple of years there has been an Ubuntu dinner as well
<kvarley> If anybody hasn't watched the "Ubuntu for phones - Industry proposition" video on YouTube yet...You must.
<popey> âº
<czajkowski> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fosdem/2013  Knightwise
<Myrtti> kvarley: http://whatleydude.com/2013/01/ubuntu-phone/
<kvarley> Myrtti: People are opposed to Ubuntu for Phone without trying it which is annoying. Nobody seems prepared to actually try the OS, just cut it down. The promotional vids for any company rarely reflect what people said, that's just how editing videos works.
<kvarley> Borrowing features for existing/past phone OS' is no bad thing, it'll mean people have some sort of grasp on how to use the devices.
<Myrtti> kvarley: point 5)
<Myrtti> and 4
<sprmtt> kvarley: sounds like you've been reading /., the only people in the world who blindly oppose anything that a news article states, without checking the facts themselves
<kvarley> sprmtt: I've been reading "/.," ?
<sprmtt> slashdot
<sprmtt> nevermind
<sprmtt> if you don't read slashdot, don't start
<sprmtt> they're the biggest unity bashers of all
<kvarley> sprmtt: hehe, I used to but stopped because I didn't like the tone of their articles
<sprmtt> despite claiming to have never used it since maverick
<kvarley> Hehe
<sprmtt> they drive me insane
<FLHerne> I used to read it for the comments, but got fed up :P
<kvarley> I sympathised with unity critics until 12.04 when Unity actually got good
<sprmtt> yarr
<davmor2> Morning all
<kvarley> \o davmor2
<marxjohnson> Hi everyone
<popey> yo
<popey> marxjohnson: do you have super strong fridge magnets or something
<marxjohnson> haha
<marxjohnson> not to my knowledge
<marxjohnson> cant get it to work?
<popey> sometimes
<popey> but most of my magnets don't trigger it
<marxjohnson> weird, I had to try a couple but didnt have trouble finding one that did
<dwatkins> I used to read slashdot, then I discovered reddit.
<marxjohnson> popey: bring it along to the curry and I'll see if it works with mine
<popey> marxjohnson: did you see brian post a link to one with integral magnet?
<marxjohnson> yes
<dwatkins> I have lots of hard disk magnets if anyone wants any.
<marxjohnson> not much more expensive than the one i bought either
<dwatkins> They're sitting on a book-end making a dangerzone for any floppy disk media on my desk.
<popey> dont want one _that_ strong âº
<dwatkins> is this for a headphone organiser like a magneat or something, popey?
<popey> smart cover for n7
<dwatkins> ahh yes, I have one of those, nice leather one
<marxjohnson> I made my own, but popey's having problems
<Myrtti> poetic sent us ones with too strong magnets
<dwatkins> hmmm, I can't actually find any magnets, perhaps mine just uses the proximity sensor
<Myrtti> it turned the screen off with the lud turned on the backside of the devicr
<Myrtti> lid, device
<marxjohnson> Myrtti: ah yeah, I read a warning about that when I was making mine
<marxjohnson> Does anyone remember seeing a discussion online, maybe a week or so ago, where someone asked why Ubuntu for phones won't just be compatible with Android apps, and someone (possibly sabdfl) responded explaining why?
<xnox> "With all-native core apps and no Java overhead" http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone
<popey> i can tell you why
<popey> no platform every succeeded by emulating another platform
<popey> you can't succeed when someone else owns the platform you're building on
<marxjohnson> I remember why, I just want to find where it was said so I can reference it in a blog post :)
<marxjohnson> unless I just remember you telling me that when we were doing the last show
<directhex> popey, not actually true.
<popey> examples?
<directhex> kindle fire, which isn't android as far as "can download apps from android app store" goes
<popey> that _is_ android though
<popey> it's not Amazon OS with android emulation on top
<marxjohnson> This is what I was thinking about http://news.slashdot.org/story/12/12/09/1828238/mark-shuttleworth-answers-your-questions
<directhex> that's a pretty academic difference
<directhex> mobile devices will run an android kernel, even when they're not android
<dwatkins> You can fairly easily set a Kindle Fire to allow other apps to install.
<directhex> since silicon vendors only bother with android drivers nowadays
<popey> that doesnt mean you have to run android apps
<popey> see jolla
<popey> they (may be?) optionally allowing that
<popey> but it's not a feature you have to bake in as a byproduct of using an android kernel and drivers
<popey> it's a value proposition they've chosen to add
<directhex> arguing about OSes is ignoring that we are in an era of ecosystems, of course
<popey> indeed
<popey> and that's a hurdle
<popey> but yay webapps ;)
<marxjohnson> I do like the Web API integration. Just a shame I can't get it working on the desktop yet! https://bugs.launchpad.net/webapps-applications/+bug/1035581
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1035581 in WebApps: Applications "Unity Web API Documentation code snippets don't work" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<popey> marxjohnson: poke me about that bug when people are back on monday
<AlanBell> marxjohnson: oh, someone pinged me the other day about a hello world framework that works
<AlanBell> https://github.com/mccollam/unity-webapp-example/blob/master/example.html
<AlanBell> marxjohnson: ^^
<AlanBell> loads of comments and it works and can be maintained
<Neoti_Desktop> just heard about the ubuntu phone..... EPIC!!!
<AlanBell> popey: when I emailed the unity list about bug 1035581 sabdfl told me to mail it to the webapps list which is a closed team on launchpad so I can't
<lubotu3> bug 1035581 in WebApps: Applications "Unity Web API Documentation code snippets don't work" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1035581
<popey> AlanBell: i recall, lemme poke will when he's back on monday
<AlanBell> thanks
<marxjohnson> AlanBell: thanks, I'll have a play
<marxjohnson> popey: I'll try and remember to remind you!
<popey> heh
<popey> or just poke willcooke when he's online âº
<ali1234> there is no such thing as android emulation
<ali1234> the bigger problem is android apps aren't just like "draw some stuff on the screen and bsd sockets and stdio"
<ali1234> if they were it would be trivial to handle them
<popey> how does RIM doe it on the playbook with QNX?
<ali1234> they licensed that compat layer
<popey> oh yes, that 3rd party thing
<ali1234> probably the same one done by jolla
<ali1234> it's really good i heard
<popey> jolla is libhybris
<ali1234> admittedly i heard from one of the developers of it
<popey> well, bits of it
<AlanBell> probably asking a silly question, but I thought android apps were written in java and running on the dalvik JVM
<ali1234> that's hardware stuff
<popey> yeah, sorry
<AlanBell> so why don't they run on openJDK?
<ali1234> because... because... what i said ^
<ali1234> android API has nothing at all to do with java
<AlanBell> ok, so it provides hardware interfaces and classes for the java apps to use?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> nothing can really even touch the hardware
<ali1234> it's so completely abstracted
<ali1234> http://openmobileww.com/products.php <- this thing
<ali1234> i doubt anyone else has duplicated this functionality
<Azelphur> woo, my american 3TB seagate drives arrived \o/
<sprmtt> \o/
<sprmtt> that's a lot of porn you're saving
<Azelphur> indeed
<einonm> ali1234: The statement that the android api has nothing to do with java is incorrect. It's a Java language API.
<ali1234> yes, i meant it has nothing to do with the java standard libraries
<directhex> Azelphur, american?
<directhex> Azelphur, aren't they all made in thailand?
<Azelphur> directhex: nabbed them in the newegg sales, $99 a pop
<Azelphur> on black friday
<Azelphur> so, I mean purchased in USA, rather than manufactured in USA :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: what was that rfid site again? I need to buy things :p
<einonm> the davlik JVM does implement several of the simpler standard java libraries, java.io for example - athough it's not any particular defined java profile
<ali1234> Azelphur: rapidnfc.com
<Azelphur> ty
<Azelphur> ali1234: I had a "clever" idea, I noticed you can print QR codes with logos, so I was thinking of doing NFC enabled QR codes
<ali1234> but you can't print nfc tags
<Azelphur> no, but I bought tags from rapidnfc, I can print the qr code to size and just put the nfc tag on it
<Azelphur> http://2d-code.co.uk/images/adidas-logo.jpg something like this, only instead of adidas, "NFC Tap here" :P
<Azelphur> could even just put the NFC sticker behind the QR code, and have whatever design you want
<ali1234> but why
<Azelphur> I want tags for useful house things, wifi access, control the TV, that sort of thing
<Azelphur> not all phones support NFC yet, so it's cool to have both
<directhex> http://picturesofpeoplescanningqrcodes.tumblr.com/
<directhex> http://wtfqrcodes.com/
<[2]bittin^work> directhex, :D
<kvarley> Does starting screen over SSH work if I end the SSH session or will it take the screen session with it?
<dwatkins> kvarley: you can indeed start screen having logged in via ssh; if you detach from it, the screen session keeps running (ctrl+A,d to detach)
<brobostigon> you detach the screen session and it will stay running, untill you re-attach it.
<popey> or just close the ssh window
<kvarley> sweet
<kvarley> IRC Pi is now go
<ali1234> directhex: funny story, friend of mine showed me his band's new CD. it had a QR code on it so i scanned it. he was like "wow i didn't know you could scan those on a phone"
<ali1234> ok, it's not that funny at all
<dwatkins> what did he expect to use to scan it? ;)
<ali1234> i don't know
<ali1234> i don't think he had any idea what it was at all tbh
<dwatkins> fair enough, I guess they're not that popular
<dwatkins> it's so much hassle to use a QR code, you might as well just type in the URL half the time
<ali1234> or just phoogrph the URL and google goggles will process that too
<ddfgt> hi
<ddfgt> someone can help me with sed?
<brobostigon> can the rpi, safely be left turned on and plugged in all the time? it is model"B"-rev2.
<sprmtt> ddfgt: what kind of help do you need?
<dwatkins> brobostigon: it doesn't get very hot, so I'd say the danger of fire is minimal; it uses about 3 Watts (according to my mains tester) and the current releases seem to be fairly stable, so I'd say 'yes'
<mungojerry> QR codes have a use, but they are over-used by marketing bods
<ddfgt> sprmtt, if the text is: aa bb cc dd ee ff gg
<brobostigon> dwatkins: thank you, i wasnt sure, over long periods of time, :)
<ddfgt> i want to change everything between bb to ee
<ddfgt> so i will get aa my-text ff gg
<dwatkins> brobostigon: mine did tend to hang after a few days, but I had it replaced due to the resistors being wrong on the USB ports, not tried the new one for as long yet
<dwatkins> I'll have to to what kvarley is doing, and setup a screen session with irssi so I can see if it's up
<sprmtt> ddfgt: you might be better with awk
<brobostigon> dwatkins: ah, ok, i will keep an eye on that, i plan to turn it into a tv connected internet type thing, with a wireless keyboard/mouse/remote.
<sprmtt> awk '{print $1, yourtext, $6, $7}';
<sprmtt> oh wait, you have to specify the input, of course :P
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i am doing an test, and am running byobu and top.
<dwatkins> this works, but I don't know what pitfalls there might be, ddfgt - echo "aa bb cc dd ee ff gg" | sed 's/bb.*ee/my-text/'
<dwatkins> e.g. sed can end up replacing far more than you would expect
<ali1234> heh, you can't really do this with regular expressions
<ali1234> you can with extended regexp, but that doesn't work everywhere
<dwatkins> oh, I didn't realise I was using extended regexp
<ali1234> well, either you are using extended regexp, or your regexp will have unintended consequences :)
<ali1234> i can't remember the specifics
<dwatkins> yeah, it might grab the entire line if there's a 'bb' or an 'ee' beyond the bit that ddfgt wants to change
<ali1234> yeah regexp is greedy, and the extensions allow you to turn that off
<ali1234> that's all i remember
<dwatkins> thanks 'greedy' was the operative word I'd forgotten
<cocoa117> what kind local search tool is currently widely used on Ubuntu 12.04? The dash seems don't support deep searching or content searching for my openoffice files
<ali1234> find
<ali1234> and grep
<cocoa117> ali1234, GUI would be good here, :)
<ali1234> gnome-terminal
<mungojerry> anyone claimed child benefit lately - is it done after the birth of the child? (seems so)
<ali1234> there's a search tool in nautilus
<cocoa117> by the way, can find search inside the contents of a file?
<ali1234> no but grep can
<cocoa117> but grep can only search for txt file, right? can it deal with openoffice file?
<ali1234> it will look for strings inside binary files, yes
<ali1234> usually text of your document is in there in plain text
<ormiret> aren't openoffice files compressed xml though?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> even compressed files will still have most of the text inside them as plain text
<cocoa117> ali1234, it didn't work, i just test it
<cocoa117> it tell me its a binary file
<diplo> Loook.py
<diplo> http://www.danielnaber.de/loook/ supposedly works ?
<popey> ali1234: http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/3/3830394/leap-motion-asus-pc-deal
<ali1234> so has anyone received developer units yet>
<Azelphur> anyone got a VOIP account and mind calling 1415982@sipgate.co.uk to see if it goes through for me? :)
<Azelphur> battling with connection issues :p
<dwatkins> sure, Azelphur
<dwatkins> I have a 6-digit sipgate number, are you certain that's the right one? I get 'number unreachable'
<Azelphur> pretty sure, it's the username right?
<dwatkins> there's a separate SIP username/passwd, if you login to http://sipgate.co.uk/ and click 'settings' at the top right, it'll show you them
<Azelphur> yea, that's the page I'm looking at
<Azelphur> it says my SIP-ID is 1419582
<dwatkins> You probably want to provide 'SIP-ID' and 'SIP password' to your client application.
<popey> it failed for me too
<dwatkins> ah yes, sorry - mine is in fact 7 digits, my bad
<Azelphur> guess the sipgate android app doesn't work either ;)
<dwatkins> if I type my own 7-digit SIP number, I get 'line busy', suggesting I'm dialling correctly.
<dwatkins> I just use the built-in SIP stuff, Azelphur
<Azelphur> yea, I'm behind a freebie sky router and my brother has all the relevant ports forwarded to him
<Azelphur> so it's a connectivity nightmare :p
<dwatkins> I get asked every time I place a call if I want to use the mobile network or the internet, but it's fairly seamless
<dwatkins> oh my, yeah
<dwatkins> should be possible to use a STUN server to login etc.
 * dwatkins tries to find the settings on CM7
<Azelphur> yea, that's what I was thinking, but I'd assume the proper android app is set up with STUN
<popey> your brother uses SIP too?
<Azelphur> popey: yep
<Azelphur> we both use sipgate for incoming calls (no mobile signal indoors)
<dwatkins> aha, it's under call settings -> accounts on my Android phone
<popey> you could run asterisk on a server somewhere and use a different port between your client and that server
<dwatkins> username is my 7-digit SIP-ID, server is sipgate.co.uk, that's all that seems necessary to set
<Azelphur> dwatkins: yea, it's definitely a NAT issue for me as it works if I connect to 3g or other wifi
<dwatkins> transport type UDP, port is the standard, 5060 - I'm using the 3G network for this, so perhaps it's different if you're behind a NAT'ed firewall
<dwatkins> ah ok, yeah
<Azelphur> popey: I considered that, asterisk seems a bit of a beast to set up though :(
<dwatkins> I did get it to work from inside my flat with wifi, but perhaps my router is allowing my phone to do pnp-type dynamic port forwarding
<dwatkins> http://code.google.com/p/sipdroid/wiki/NewStandbyTechnique might explain, not sure though
<Azelphur> yea, it worked fine on my wifi before I moved too, just my brother has a horrible network :p
<dwatkins> simple solution, then ;)
<Azelphur> and yea, I just tried csipsimple with stun enabled and still don't get through
<Azelphur> :<
<dwatkins> I rtied setting up ssh port forwarding on my android phone, but it didn't work too well, sadly
<dwatkins> *tried
<bigcalm> I really should pay attention to updates applied to my workstation. Just rebooted and now my 2nd gfx card isn't being used. Down to 2 screens now :(
<directhex> shameful/.
<bigcalm> Somebody want to take a look at my xorg log and tell me what's not working now? :)
<bigcalm> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1492222/
<popey> [     6.114] (EE) NVIDIA(2): Failed to assign any connected display devices to X screen 2
<popey> [     6.116] (EE) NVIDIA(2): Failing initialization of X screen 2
<bigcalm> Indeed, but does it hint to why?
<bigcalm> I did note that compiz was updated today
<bigcalm> I don't know if it's related, but recently that screen has been showing its "no signal" message rather than going blank like the other 2
<directhex> http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/3/3831012/the-ubuntu-phone-has-a-speed-problem-and-im-not-talking-about-lag
<ali1234> i have to agree with that
<ali1234> though ultimately it doesn't matter
<ali1234> i mean you can barely even buy a PC with Ubuntu on it
<solarcloud_3scrn> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL_ntkb2-HE
<solarcloud_3scrn> @ 1 min in the vidz.
<AlanBell> I hardly think that 2014 is the end of the phone market
<dwatkins> I wonder if the Ubuntu phone will run flash... ;)
<popey> pfft, who wants _that_
<dwatkins> hehe
<ali1234> oh, maybe i imagined it then
<brobostigon> dwatkins: well there isnt a linux arm port, so question already answered.
<popey> dunno, i have seen a lot of people mention "2 weeks"
<popey> maybe it's been mentioned elsewhere
<popey> brobostigon: sure there is
<dwatkins> ah yes brobostigon
<brobostigon> popey: for android there is.
<popey> android is arm
<popey> mostly
<ali1234> maybe i started the two weeks thing lol
<brobostigon> popey: but i coul;dnt run that, on debian on arm, for example.
<einonm1> I'm assuming that the phone release will be something like the ubuntu N7 userspace running on a recent kernel..or is it a totally different development branch?
<popey> its using the AOSP kernel
<popey> ubuntu userland
<ali1234> doesn't the current N7 image do that though?
<brobostigon> ah.
<ali1234> and, does it run X11?
<brobostigon> popey: so i could load the adboce flash apk into it?
<popey> brobostigon: dunno
<brobostigon> adobe*
<einonm1> popey: thanks. Should run on my N1 then, with tweaks
<popey> i was just pointing out that flash has been ported to arm
<ali1234> brobostigon: NO
<brobostigon> popey: yes, i knew that, and only for android, not a normal linux distro, running on arm.
<ali1234> brobostigon: wrong
<ali1234> again :)
<ali1234> firstly, android *is* a normal android distribution
<Dave2> That's a very abnormal normal
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok, can i use the android apk of adobe flash, on debian on arm?
<ali1234> secondly, flash was on the N900
<ali1234> thirdly, no, running an android kernel doesn't allow you to use apks
<ali1234> not any more than running a fedora kernel would allow ubuntu to magically use RPMs
<brobostigon> exactly, so the answer to my question is no. but i knew that already.
<ali1234> i don't see your point
<brobostigon> i think my question was lost along time ago. but i knew what i was asking.
<ali1234> has anyone asked rafe if he's gonna set up allaboutubuntuphone.com?
<popey> who?
<ali1234> the guy in ur video...
<popey> dunno which video you're on about âº
<ali1234> who runs allaboutsymbian.com and now allaboutwindowsphone.com
<popey> oh
<popey> never heard of either site
<ali1234> *facepalm*
<ali1234> http://vimeo.com/20373013 <- this guy
<DJones> Another viewpoint on the the Ubuntu phone http://slashdot.org/topic/bi/who-would-actually-build-an-ubuntu-smartphone/
<ali1234> well i'm guessing that even if nobody does, it will work on every nexus newer than gnex without much difficulty at all
<ali1234> at the very least, it could be as popular as cyanogenmod, which is quite popular considering it's an after market hack
<DJones> I'd agree with that, I can see quite a few Ubuntu users trying it out, I'm tempted to try it on my S3 once I see how it comes out
<ali1234> i will definitely install it on something
<einonm1> dammit, I don't think the UPhone (Cann we call it that?) will run on an N1 - min core is an Arm A9, N1 has A8 I think
<diplo> I've got a project I'd like to try and i know a few of you tinker
<diplo> Have a very old radio 20+ years old
<diplo> Want to remove the guts and turn it into a dab style radio
<diplo> Using current dials etc
<diplo> Anyone ever tried or know anywhere to find info about this ?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: if you can find a small DAB radio that has the kinds of dials you want it to have, it should be easy
<diplo> Iw as thinking more of a board and I wire the current dials into it
<MartijnVdS> DAB boards I haven'
<MartijnVdS> t found yet
<MartijnVdS> except very expensive
<diplo> yeah, seems that way
<einonm1> you'd be stuck trying to convert the analogue tuner dial into a digital one. That doesn't sound simple
<MartijnVdS> einonm1: if you replace all the guts it's easy :)
<MartijnVdS> well the display might be a challenge
<diplo> yeah, just want to use the dial to tune and turn up, no more functionality than that
<diplo> yeah that's the only issue i think
<MartijnVdS> diplo: http://www.monkeyboard.org/products/85-developmentboard/80-dab-fm-digital-radio-development-board
<MartijnVdS> boom :)
<diplo> Basically my gf loves this old radio, but turn it on and it progressively gets louder and doesn't get very good signal. She likes the outside not the guts
<MartijnVdS> that + arduino for the controls = custom DAB radio
<einonm1> MartijnVdS: I was considering having to convert the dial position to a real number - with a display, you wouldn't need that
<MartijnVdS> einonm1: you could make the dial "pulse" on rotation.. then each pulse is one channel up/down
<MartijnVdS> einonm1: or every X pulses = 1 channel
<diplo> I was thinking along those lines, although never done anything like this
<diplo> So it was all just in my head
<diplo> :)
<MartijnVdS> diplo: http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/digital-radio-development-board-with-slideshow-p-1078.html -> UK reseller
<MartijnVdS> diplo: the Arduino community is really helpful with things like this, names of companies with useful stuff: sparkfun, adafruit ;)
<ali1234> you can already get dab radios that do thaaaaaaat
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: DAB radios that replace old radio guts?
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: because that seems very specific..
<ali1234> no dab radios that have an old fashioned style tuning dial
<diplo> Oooh not to pricey, I'm defo interested. better skills than me MartijnVdS thank you
<ali1234> also
<diplo> ali1234: It's a specific radio my GF already owns, she loves the look of it
<ali1234> you can get a dab usb tuner
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: but no drivers for anything
<ali1234> no drivers?
<einonm1> extra points if you use a steampunk style ticker tape for the display output. That's proper retro.
<ali1234> anyway, those dab tuners are actually software radios
<diplo> heh, http://www.antiqueradio.com/images/Feb01-Arnold-Firestone.jpg
<diplo> Bit like that
<diplo> Thanks for those anyhoo, will take a look into it thank you.
<diplo> Better go and pick my sisters dog up
<Laney> Where can I get a non-crap suit for not much money?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: Thailand
<Laney> before Tuesday
<einonm1> Slaters are pretty good. Can't beat charity shops for cheapness tho - if you don't mind wearing a dead man's suit.
<directhex> how much do you consider "not much"?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: one-day return ticket to Bangkok should be doable ;)
<directhex> i got married in a hundred quid m&s suit
<MartijnVdS> Laney: or just give them your measurements and have it shipped overnight
<boot_> Hello I want make a usbstick bootable.It doesn't work. i need a administrative terminal to start this programm ./bootinst.sh. error: Nor rights
<brobostigon> sudo/gksudo
<Laney> I think I'll raid charity shops :P
<Laney> http://outlet.marksandspencer.com/Collezione-Button-Stripe-T15-6527t-S-T15-6528t-S-LCTB/dp/B006Z9UN70?field_availability=-1&field_browse=1462509031&field_product_site_launch_date_utc=-1y&id=Collezione+Button+Stripe+T15-6527t-S+T15-6528t-S-LCTB&ie=UTF8&refinementHistory=subjectbin%2Csize_name%2Ccolor is also good
<davmor2> Laney: Asda
<davmor2> Laney: http://direct.asda.com/george/mens-suits/D2M1G10C14,default,sc.html?cm_sp=grgmens-_-panel2-_-link1suits3012013
<popey> +1 ADSA
<popey> I still have a suit from ASDA I've had for ages.
<Laney> cheers
<Laney> I'd assumed George would be crap quality
<davmor2> Laney: Not at all, Okay Quality, Great Lastibility, reasonable price
<ali1234> you know what i really hate
<ali1234> when people ask you to do something so you do it, but then instead of just checking themselves which they easily could do they pester you with emails and SMS messages asking if you have done it
<Azelphur> I stumbled upon this...I wonder if I could use it to NFC Phone enable my credit card http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/07/27/hacker-demos-android-app-that-can-read-and-use-a-credit-card-thats-still-in-your-wallet/ :p
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> you would have to scan your card every time
<Azelphur> why not? :<
<Azelphur> true
<ali1234> and then scan the payment thing with your phone
<ali1234> you might as well just use the card
<Azelphur> I could do it purely for the gimick, haha
<ali1234> you could do but nobody would care
<Azelphur> indeed
<ali1234> i don't understand why you even want to do NFC payments
<Azelphur> I think it's cool technology
<Azelphur> and I bet cool things could be done like fully automated accounting
<ali1234> "cool" "accounting"
<ali1234> what's wrong with you?
<Azelphur> lol
<ali1234> has anyone ever heard of ipad "restore loop"
<MartijnVdS> I wouldn't be surprised
<MartijnVdS> they can't do dates right.. backups are harder
<popey> ali1234: the thing where it always wants to be attached to itunes?
<popey> like its been factory reset?
<ali1234> go on...
<popey> my mother in law had occasion recently where her ipad 2 locked up
<ali1234> someone asked me about their ipad they literally said "it's in a restore loop. how do i fixed it?"
<popey> we did a hard reset, power down with lots of buttons held down or something
<ali1234> yeah, it's an ipad2
<popey> it came back up with an itunes cable thing on the screen
<ali1234> yeah, he wants to get some files of it before doing that
<popey> meaning "lets start again"
<popey> however it was mistaken
<popey> the stuff was all still there
<popey> just needed another clean reboot holding down power for like 20 seconds
<popey> there's a page on apple support about it
<popey> it came back just fine
<popey> but only after that veeeeery long press reboot
<ali1234> odd.
<ali1234> so there's no way to get files out of it, other than doing something that could potentially hard reset it?
<ali1234> hard reset means "erase all user files" to me
<popey> lemme find the article
<popey> it did sound scary
<popey> but its not
<popey> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKHgtdmp3h4
<popey> maybe?
<popey> not watched all yet, but description looks right
<popey> oh no, he wants to download sommat, ignore that
<popey> http://ipod.about.com/od/iphonetroubleshooting/f/Iphone-Stuck-At-Apple-Logo.htm
<popey> that looks familiar, i think that's what I talked mother in law through
<ali1234> so "restore" won't erase user files?
<ali1234> is the U1 for iPad with photosync? if so i'll recommend that (or dropbox/g+)
<ali1234> it's mainly about not losing photos on the device
<popey> U1 Files does upload photos to U1
<ali1234> for that matter i would have expected apple to have something like that anyway
<popey> restore from backup will replace stuff
<popey> it does
<popey> icloud
<ali1234> hmm i don't think he has a backup
<popey> never setup icloud backup?
<popey> or synced to itunes?
<ali1234> dunno. he probably wouldn't be asking me if he did
<popey> well with M-i-L we didnt do any restore
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> well, replied. thanks for the help
<popey> np
<Azelphur> Is there anything out there like a multiplayer web browser, so two people see exactly the same content?
<ormiret> Azelphur: one browser plus VNC for the second player?
<Azelphur> could do, kinda slow but yea
<Azelphur> was hoping there was some web app that did it, so you could both just open the same webpage without any installing of things
<ormiret> There are screensharing webapps
<Azelphur> ah yea, could do that I suppose
<ali1234> kazam has really gone downhill since they decided to turn it into a do everything machine
<ali1234> it no longer reliably records video, which is the only thing i want it to do
<popey> how so?
<ali1234> 50% of the time it will just freeze when i stop recording
<popey> poke them in #kazam or file a bug
<popey> they're active
<popey> h264 or vp8?
<ali1234> and 50% of the time when that doesn't happen the resulting file just freezes at exactly 1:30
<ali1234> "gstreamer"
<ali1234> er, vp8
<popey> I'd use h264
<popey> faster, more reliable
<ali1234> ok
<ali1234> vp8 is the default tho
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> \o/ defaults that actually work
<popey> free software loonies ;)
<ali1234> it's annoying when you;re trying to do a screencast without fluffing the lines and when you mess up it always works
<ali1234> but when you get it right "oops i decided not to record anything that time"
<popey> heh
<popey> yeah
<ali1234> i need to get one of those hdmi capture thingies
<ali1234> though the other day someone was telling me they are not very good
<popey> i have one
<ali1234> but then it was a gnome developer so what does he know :)
<popey> i have two in fact
<ali1234> yeah you said :)
<ali1234> nope, h264 does exactly the same thing
<ali1234> click "finish recording" and it doesn't show the next dialog where you save the video
<popey> can you run kazam --debug and see what you get ?
<ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/kazam/+bug/1080226
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1080226 in Kazam Screencaster "Doesnt show save video after screen record xubuntu 12.10" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ali1234> been there, done that
<ali1234> actually someone did it before me
<ali1234> the most tedious thing about doing screencasts over and over is resetting everything that you need to do
<ali1234> i get the feeling that gstreamer is totally to blame for this
<ali1234> attached debug log anyway
<bigcalm> Ahoy
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-04
<diplo> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning
<daubers> 3Morning
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, folks! :-D
<daubers> Happy--
<AlanBell> morning
<popey> morning
<Laney> yo
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/tree/camera1357292581.png
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<SuperMatt> good morning me brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning SuperMatt
<popey> Laney: those "decorations" need to come down before the 6th! Or a plague of locusts be upon you or something
<Laney> that'll be a timelapse at the end of the day
<Laney> it's one of those magic trees :D
<popey> magic?
<Laney> like http://www.instructables.com/id/Grow-your-own-Magic-Crystal-Tree-or-any-other-sha/
<popey> i have a "magic" meerkat round here somewhere
<popey> oh haha
<popey> like the stupid bird one I did recently
<Laney> although not home made (that's a cool idea)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<czajkowski> oh a laney
<czajkowski> welcome back Laney
<Laney> ello
<Laney> getting up early today has hurt me
<czajkowski> Laney: have you put away the christmas jumper?
<Laney> I got a new one :D
<czajkowski> dpnt put it in the washing machine :)
<Laney> this one can be washed
<Laney> it's not 100% wool ... Â¬_Â¬
<Laney> http://orangesquash.org.uk/~laney/jumper.jpg
<Laney> ignore the weird face
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> Nice jumper
<diplo> Laney: That is awful! :)
<popey> nice face âº
<Laney> >:|
<Laney> I found out the pattern is called "fair isle"
<Laney> so now I know what to look for to buy LOADS MORE
<Laney> these left handed pens feel weird
<mungojerry> left handed pen?
<diplo> What does your better half think of them Laney ?
<Laney> she gets me them
<Laney> well, this one was from her parents actually
<Laney> so I think it's a seal of approval :P
<diplo> Oh dear....
<diplo> :P
<diplo> BigRedS: Did you have any luck with that app for android ?
<BigRedS> I found something that claimed to do it, and have installed it, but haven't tested it yet
<BigRedS> can't remember off the top of my head what it was, though :)
<BigRedS> 'Setting Profiles Lite'
<diplo> I'll let you test and let me know
<diplo> :P
<diplo> I'm very limited for space, really must try the hack mungo or someone in here tried expanding fs to sd card
<mungojerry> yes that was me
<mungojerry> brought new life to my phone
<diplo> Will try soon
<diplo> Wasn't sure if it was you so didn't want to highlight :P
<mungojerry> somehow i've nearly used the extra 100mb i added :S
<diplo> My sd card, say once amonth seems to unmount, what damage would that do to the phone ?
<dwatkins> Is this 'Setting Profiles Lite', mungojerry, or just moving apps to the SD card?
<BigRedS> I've tried app2sd which seems to have had no ill effect on the apps
<mungojerry> it's S2E where you partition your SD card as SD-ext and your phone treats it has proper internal storage
<dwatkins> Cyanogenmod has a built-in option to move an app to the SD card, I use it a lot to save internal space
<mungojerry> app2sd still keeps filling up /data
<mungojerry> the only proper fix is s2e ,
<mungojerry> the only downside is seems to use a bit more battery, probably sd card gets spun down more often in normal use
<diplo> dwatkins: yeah, I still don't have enough space, that's why I like mungojerry option
<diplo> Must get off my arse :)
<mungojerry> i wrote some instructions
<mungojerry> did i send them to you?
<diplo> Wrote some on here a while ago, but I didn't save them off :)
<diplo> Was going to google s2e when I was ready
<BigRedS> diplo: when you say it unmounts is that pure software? I keep having the SD card physically eject on my galaxy S2
<BigRedS> which I suspect is the cause of it dying the other week
<diplo> Software based yeah, my wildfire is all encased
<diplo> Reboot the phone and it's fine
<mungojerry> is anyone good at long words? i'm trying to think of a word and it's annoying me
<mungojerry> it's a slightly obscure one, but my google-fu is failing me
<popey> !ask
<lubotu3> Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<popey> âº
<mungojerry> :P
<mungojerry> i was getting to it, but someone came to my desk
<mungojerry> it's a word (long) that describes the radio5 type attitude of giving equal credence to views of a professor who has researched the subject for years, and a binman who has just phoned up while doing his rounds
<popey> happy new year aptanet
<popey> "balance" âº
<popey> sounds like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_man_on_the_Clapham_omnibus
<mungojerry> its a long word like postsupralapsarian
<aptanet> likewise popey  -  scary, I tried to put an @ before your nick then!!
<popey> hah
<Laney> beautiful south â¥
<mungojerry> popey, got it
<mungojerry> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracrepidarianism
<popey> blimey
<mungojerry> its a useful word
<mungojerry> the other word for the day is Zugzwang
<popey> Numberwangâ¢
<davmor2> morning all
<neuro> Wordwang!
<mungojerry> how can i get weechat working on the command line with ssl?
<dwatkins> I'd almost forgotten that IRC does SSL.
<mungojerry> irc: cannot connect with SSL because WeeChat was                            | not built with GnuTLS support
<mungojerry> meh, answers my que
<mungojerry> this is not for freenode
<dwatkins> ah ok
<dwatkins> I'll just paste the link I was reading in case anyone else is curious: http://www.weechat.org/files/doc/devel/weechat_user.en.html
<mungojerry> hmm irssi on these RH boxes doesn't seem to do it either
<mungojerry> was trying to move to screen on an ssh host instead of using a bouncer
<czajkowski> screen + irssi = win!
<mungojerry> czajkowski, i'm not used to irssi, how do i do a simple one liner to connect?
<kvarley> czajkowski: +1
<mungojerry> on weechat i can do weechat-curses irc://user:pass@server
<BigRedS> mungojerry: rhel? ew
<BigRedS>  /connect <server name>
<czajkowski> mungojerry: /connect irc .whatever
<mungojerry> user/pass?
<czajkowski> then /j to #channelname
<kvarley> mungojerry: http://askubuntu.com/questions/61549/how-do-i-configure-irssi
 * kvarley recently switched using that guide and a few searches on how to detach/reattach
<czajkowski>  ctrl a+d to detach screen-r reattach
<kvarley> Naming the sessions is useful too, I have a bunch of scripts on my pi to create a named session for irc, etc
<kvarley> czajkowski: Is there any way for the terminal window to notify me when somebody mentions my name in chat though? That's one thing it's missing.
<mungojerry> and does irssi have colours?
<czajkowski> kvarley: yes highlight
<kvarley> mungojerry: Yes, but you have to configure them yourself AFAIK
<mungojerry> :(
<czajkowski> mungojerry: I'm sure it does I dont really bother about them
<mungojerry> weechat seems superior
<czajkowski> name changes are highlighted yellow for me
<AlanBell> you need more plugins mungojerry
<kvarley> mungojerry: I'm sure people will have posted their own colour configs online tho
<mungojerry> how to switch between channels ?
<AlanBell> nickcolor.pl does colours
<AlanBell> alt+left/right
<kvarley> czajkowski: Ah yeah. I meant is there anyway for the window to take focus when my name is mentioned or something along those lines. It's the only thing I miss about Pidgin.
<mungojerry> thanks
<dwatkins> wow, I never knew about alt+left/right, thanks AlanBell :)
<czajkowski> kvarley: god no!
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> or ctrl p or n is handy
<AlanBell> adv_windowlist.pl mouse.pl chanact.pl hilightwin.pl are all good things too
<mungojerry> i want coloured nicks
<czajkowski> but I;ve all my windows aliased so alt t goes to a spefic channel as does alt q,s,d,f,etc
<czajkowski> mungojerry: I'm sure there is a plugin
<mungojerry> yeah will have a look over lunch cheers guys
<AlanBell> scriptassist.pl is a thing that you should install first then you can easily install other scripts
<AlanBell> http://scripts.irssi.org/ is where they all come from
<mungojerry> how to apply it please AlanBell ?
<mungojerry> ah, i see top of that page
<mungojerry> ok one more pleas..
<mungojerry> how to scroll up?
<AlanBell> page up or mousewheel if you have mouse.pl
<mungojerry> it scrolls my command history
<kvarley> czajkowski: Found this - https://code.google.com/p/irssi-libnotify/wiki/MainPage - could be interesting :)
<AlanBell> oh, move it about or wait a few seconds until the mouse cursor changes to a pointer rather than an I beam
<mungojerry> can't replicate that behaviour, stange
<mungojerry> oh silly me, page up works, (mouse wheel not)
<solarcloud_3scrn> AlanBell, Was there a note in with the envelope or did you just see the paper-money-note ??
<AlanBell> solarcloud_3scrn: got the note as well, thanks
<solarcloud_3scrn> Oh, OK . brilliant .. thought I'd Deadmau5'd again , thanks-again !!
<kvarley>  I get some sort of DBus error message when loading a script in irssi. Any ideas? http://paste.ubuntu.com/1495216/
<kvarley> The script I'm loading is here https://irssi-libnotify.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/notify.pl
<mungojerry> hello mungbean
<kvarley> Nvm, it was a dependency issue :)
<kvarley> Doing "/SET notify_remote 192.168.1.10" in IRSSI results in " Unknown setting notify_remote
<popey> hmm, i'd like notifications too
<popey> but my irssi is on a remove vps
<czajkowski> kvarley: there is an #irssi channel on freenode btw
<marxjohnson> afternoon
<popey> hello marxjohnson
<mungbean> dont you love it when you are called customer services and after 5 mins of ringing you get passed to a message that says sorry, call back later...dead line
<kvarley> popey: It forwards them via dbus a libnotify so you can do it to a remote client :)
<kvarley> czajkowski: Thanks, asked there :)
<czajkowski> kvarley: np
<mungbean> quick irssi question again, if i load a script e.g. nicklist, when does it take effect?
<dwatkins> when people write things
<dwatkins> i.e. previous lines aren't affected
<mungbean> nicklist is supposed to create a userlist on the RHS though
<dwatkins> oh sorry, I read that as nick_color.pl, my bad
<kvarley> popey: Couldn't get notfy.pl to play nice with irssi. Using this method instead http://jonathanbeluch.com/blog/2011/03/remote-notify-irssi-screen/ it works pretty well :)
<mungbean> got it, /nicklist screen
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<kvarley> \o bigcalm
<popey> yo
<bigcalm> Ooo, a RPi user. Is your password still raspberry? ;)
<bigcalm> popey: what's new?
<popey> uhhhm
<czajkowski> hows the cat
<czajkowski> we've not had caturday in a while
<bigcalm> I seriously need a UI designer for my photo booth app. It looks horrible right now
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I have an URL for you!
<czajkowski> oh cool
<bigcalm> Which my brain keeps reading as 'regretting' some how
<popey> I'll post some caturday pics tomorrow âº
<dwatkins> bigcalm: that makes me wonder how long it will be until someone starts finding Raspberry Pi boxes connected to the internets and hacking into them....
<bigcalm> dwatkins: 'hacking' in the same sense as accessing somebody's voice mail account because they haven't changed the default password
<dwatkins> bigcalm: yes, although if I had a RPi on my network and someone could log in to it, they would then be potentially able to access my other computers more easily
<dwatkins> (see 'total cost of pwnership' or whatever that confusingly-titled document was about the damage a linux machine can do compared to the damage a windows machine can do if it's compromised)
<dwatkins> http://www.immunitysec.com/resources-papers.shtml - August 12, 2004 Dave Aitel - Microsoft Windows, a lower Total Cost of Ownership (note the zero in the word '0wnership')
<Laney> I think my magic tree timelapse is going to be boring
<Laney> still doesn't look magic :(
<brobostigon> :(
<bashrc> I assume that folks have seen this http://youtu.be/sLtcj7FdIYA
<SuperMatt> not yet
<bashrc> it's a nice demo
<bashrc> definitely looks like something which would sell
<SuperMatt> you say that, but lots of people seem to think that mobile manufactures won't buy in to it
<bashrc> why not?
<SuperMatt> because they already have the choice between android and windows phone
<SuperMatt> and symbian
<SuperMatt> and now tizen, or whatevs
<bashrc> I think the average person who is not obsessed with operating systems will look at this and just think it's Android.  The screen transitions are very similar.
<SuperMatt> oh yes
<bashrc> But even if manufacturers don't like it (and I don't see why they wouldn't) he says in the video that it will be possible to unstall the Ubuntu phone OS onto existing Android phones.
<SuperMatt> one thing that would be nice of Upho: dial boot
<bashrc> *install
<SuperMatt> *dual
<SuperMatt> bashrc: the thing is that you need to root the phone before you can install ubuntu
<SuperMatt> I have an s3, and I belive that samsung have locked it down quite hard
<bashrc> yes, but I think that's common
<bashrc> I guess that's a question of judicious purchasing.  If you buy a device knowing that you won't be able to have root access on it then I suppose that you deserve to live in a digital prison.
<SuperMatt> well, when I bought the s3 it was because it was the best, not because I knew ubuntu phone was coming
<bashrc> which goes back to the Stallman quote about "perceived convenience"
<kvarley> SuperMatt: Samsung may try to lock it down but there are countless guides on how to unlock it.
<bashrc> yes that does seem to be the case
<popey> 15:29:48 < SuperMatt> you say that, but lots of people seem to think that mobile manufactures won't buy in to it
<popey> not in our experience
<popey> we've had very positive feedback from handset manufacturers
<SuperMatt> oh sweet
<SuperMatt> I should of course stop reading slashdot
<bashrc> ;-)
<bigcalm> I'm surprised that people still do read /.
<popey> ditto
<mungbean> popey: how does launcher work in ladscape mode
<popey> dunno, not turned one sideways âº
<mungbean> never seen a clip yet of it sideways
<mungbean> or making a phone call
<bashrc> maybe it doesn't have a landscape mode...yet
<SuperMatt> /. is ok for getting some news articles, but the problem is that the comments are akin to those on the daily mail website
<bashrc> the daily fail
<SuperMatt> mostly misinformed or out of date
<popey> mungbean: when they got the phone stack working, they immediately called Jane Silber, the CEO, from across the office. Was a happy day âº
<SuperMatt> nice!
<SuperMatt> how long has it been in development for?
<SuperMatt> also: what does the phone stack stuff mean for desktops? if we plug in a sim card, will we be able to make calls?
<SuperMatt> no, of course not
<SuperMatt> don't be so stupid matthew
<Laney> https://twitter.com/avoidcomments
<dwatkins> is the Ubuntu phone kernel the 'standard' linux kernel, Android or something else?
<SuperMatt> Laney: awesome!
<SuperMatt> though I do tend to read anything ubuntu related on /. to see just how malinformed people are
<SuperMatt> I get a bit of a kick out of it
<bashrc> "The problem with internet comments is that you can never really know who's saying them." -- Winston Churchill
<mungbean> comments from dinotards on ubuntu realted slashdot articles are funny
<popey> SuperMatt: 2 years or so
<SuperMatt> "I USED UNITY BACK WHEN IT WAS IN DAPPER AND IT WAS RUBBISH THEN SO I HAVEN'T TRIED IT SINCE"
<bashrc> haters gonna hate
<SuperMatt> popey: has it been a constant thing, or has it ramped up recently?
<popey> ramped up for CES
<mungbean> my mouse keeps stopping working, requiring reseating in usb slot..weird
<dwatkins> "The probably with making up quotes is that anyone can do it" - Margaret Thatcher
<mungbean> slashdot commenters are so ultracrepidarian :D
<bashrc> that's a new word
<bashrc> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultracrepidarianism
<popey> its mungbean's word of the day
<bigcalm> It's what happens to me when I get drunk
<bigcalm> I try not to get too drunk for this sort of reason
<mungbean> lol
<SuperMatt> oh fedora, why do you keep slipping?
<bigcalm> SuperMatt: head not big enough?
<SuperMatt> hah
<SuperMatt> no, it's their new bloody installer
<SuperMatt> Even when ubuntu changed theirs, it didn't make a differnce to the release date
<davmor2> mungbean: the thoughts count for floccinaucinihilipilification
<mungbean> we need a bot which automatically explains the meaning of long words
<SuperMatt> anything over 12 characters?
<davmor2> this is the biggest real word I know to pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis
<SuperMatt> better make it 15 characters as automatically is 13 :P
<dwatkins> floccinaucinihilipilification
<ubuntubhoy> Got hold of a cheapo USB 2 data link cable, and wan't to transfer a shitload of data from a Ubuntu install to a Win8 machine, is there any easy way to use this thing ?
<bigcalm> !ohmy | ubuntubhoy
<lubotu3> ubuntubhoy: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<solarcloud_3scrn> ubuntuboy Errata . Use shedload next time.
<davmor2> http://t.co/MB7fYmBn muhahahaha
<bigcalm> ubuntubhoy: quickest way would be to take the HDD out of the Windows machine and hook it up to the Ubuntu one. Mount it there and copy your load
<solarcloud_3scrn> davmor2, I thought mwahahaha or variants was saved for !Batman posts although the addition of a 'u' would indicate a #hashtag logg.
<davmor2> solarcloud_3scrn: I think a big cat killing a snowman is evil so it gets an evil laugh, his next plan is to take over the world
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. I don't think his hund legs will last the arthritis. davmor2, All cats come from a gemini Siaese cat called Congress.
<solarcloud_3scrn> **Siamese
<ubuntubhoy> bigcalm: laptop's, and no external HDD caddy :(
<davmor2> ubuntubhoy: would a simply crossover cable not of been much cheaper?
<ubuntubhoy> had the data cable lying around
<ubuntubhoy> ethernet cable might be better though
<Azelphur> well, that was unexpected
<locodir-user> hello ?
<Azelphur> I just announced to my gaming community that my upstream advertiser was forcing us to play 18 second adverts, this was met with a 100% positive response o.O
<Azelphur> locodir-user: hi
<locodir-user> i got a question
<locodir-user> i am new to ubuntu
<Azelphur> !ask | locodir-user
<lubotu3> locodir-user: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<locodir-user> ok
<ali1234> Azelphur: i found this option in tf2 "show text only motd" and i haven't seen an advert on any server since. what's that all about?
<Azelphur> ali1234: does what it says on the tin
<davmor2> locodir-user: welcome ask away
<ali1234> so um, why does anyone even bother putting ads on there?
<Azelphur> ali1234: vast majority of users don't press that button, servers cost money.
<ali1234> really?
<locodir-user> i want to install the driver for my videocard (gtx610m laptop) i know a bit how the terminal works
<Azelphur> ali1234: yep
<Azelphur> locodir-user: 12.10?
<locodir-user> no downgraded to 12.04
<locodir-user> tought it was easier
<Azelphur> ubuntu button > hardware drivers
<Azelphur> press button receive driver
<locodir-user> i have it in dutch language
<Azelphur> !nl | locodir-user
<lubotu3> locodir-user: Nederlandstalige ondersteuning voor Ubuntu (en vers gezette koffie) is te vinden in #ubuntu-nl
<locodir-user> haha
<davmor2> locodir-user: look for jockey-gtk is the apps name you may still find that
<Azelphur> I scared him off :P
<davmor2> Azelphur: not surprising have you looked in a mirror lately ;)
<Azelphur> Yea, a handsome man stared back at me xD
<davmor2> Azelphur: Mirrors tend to be silver dude you were looking in a window :D
<Azelphur> lol
<davmor2> well ladies and gentlefolk it is that time of day have a great weekend everyone
<ali1234> ok, how do i report bugs on the ubuntu phone preview sdk?
<popey> ali1234: problems with the kit or qt5?
<ali1234> yes, and problems with the instructions on the website
 * popey finds out
<popey> standby!
<ali1234> why do we have to use qmlscene instead of qmlviewer?
<ali1234> oh, they just renamed it in Qt5
<ali1234> what's a gu?
<AlanBell> resolution independent distance
<AlanBell> ali1234: http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/resolution-independence.html
<ali1234> so it's like points, xcept different?
<AlanBell> a bit, yeah
<AlanBell> points are supposed to be a fraction of an inch and should know about dpi
<AlanBell> but they are hardly ever right
<ali1234> and not actually resolution independent :(
<AlanBell> I don't think this claims to be size consistent across devices
<ali1234> exactly
<ali1234> so it isn't resolution independent
<ali1234> it's just arbitrary
<AlanBell> yes, it is a device appropriate unit of smallness
<ali1234> yes. but not independent of resolution. it depends on resolution and also another thing
<AlanBell> yeah, it is going to be smaller on a smartphone than on a laptop screen
<ali1234> what does it do on a 7" tablet?
<ali1234> what about 10"?
<AlanBell> actually I am not sure it is going to be smaller on a smartphone
<AlanBell> I dunno, it doesn't look massively well thought out does it.
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> it looks like it has all the problems of using pixels and all the problems of using points combined into one system
<AlanBell> yes
<ali1234> thanks, but no thanks. i will just use pixels
<ali1234> as a bonus that means my app won't rely on ubuntu components, thus it will run on other mobiles as well
<AlanBell> if I was going to do such a unit I would define it as 1/1024 of the longest dimension of the screen
<AlanBell> or something like that
<ali1234> well yu can trivially do that in qml anyway
<ali1234> well, based on top level parent actually
<ali1234> i dunno, maybe it's not so easy
<AlanBell> "For example, if the destination size of the bitmap is 10 gu * 10 gu and the developer targets a Smart Phone (1 gu = 18 px) and a laptop (1 gu = 8 px) then he/she only needs to create a bitmap of 144 px * 144 px to support both devices."
<AlanBell> erm. . .
<AlanBell> someone is smoking the strong stuff there I think
<AlanBell> 8*18 is indeed 144, but that means it gets upscaled to 180x180 on the smartphone and downscaled to 80x80 on the laptop, neither of which is a clean scale of 144px
<ali1234> yeah
<AlanBell> well when popey finds where the bugs go, that one will be added to the collection
<ali1234> qml simply isn't meant to be cross platform anyway
<ali1234> it's meant to be so easy you just make a different version of your interface for laptop, desktop, phone, tablet...
<AlanBell> I expect that is the plan, I think the "One system for all platforms" thing is marketing
<ali1234> can i use qt mobility stuff or is there a special ubuntu version of it?
<AlanBell> pro tip http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/
<einonm> AlanBell: If you were designing the perfect "One system for all platforms", you'd need different images in that case, or be happy to rely on intensive scaling in places anyway? Isn't there no easy way to fix that issue?
<AlanBell> einonm: scaling images isn't a big deal, the problem is getting a fully responsive design that reflows and works with touch vs mouse/keyboard
<ali1234> einonm: yeah exactly. you're supposed to use different images and different QML with all the backend in a C++ library
<ali1234> also you are supposed to use vector graphics as much as possible :)
<einonm> AlanBell: ah yes, like windows 8... :-/
<AlanBell> haven't seen that yet
<popey> seems the project doesn't have a bug tracker configured, might have to wait till monday, keep a note of the issues pls
<AlanBell> ok
<AlanBell> is the project separate to the documentation?
<ali1234> AlanBell: that's the ubuntu stuff, but you'll need to use qml standard stuff too. some of which is in add on modules which may or may not be available
<AlanBell> Captain Jack should not be lowering himself to panto http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20915946
<ali1234> wat
<ali1234> hmm QtMultimedia doesn't like ogg files
<einonm> AlanBell: Because Captain Jack should be lowering himself to Ianto?
<AlanBell> oooh clever :)
<einonm> sorry. Couldn't resist
<ali1234> jono's head is too fuzzy
<popey> lots of options
<popey> https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=jono+bacon
<popey> image search turns up lots
<ali1234> yeah but he's still got a fuzzy head
<bigcalm> popey: Is that a 'yes' then? :)
<bigcalm> Requirements: Ubuntu and a webcam. Optional is a DSLR that works with gphoto2 (my Canon EOS 350D does) but not vital at this stage
<popey> czajkowski: saw http://imgur.com/gallery/OWtoF and thought of you
<czajkowski> popey: BOING!!!
<czajkowski> so want a pug!
<bigcalm> czajkowski: dress Jon as one good enough for now?
<czajkowski> I think he might argue against that
<bigcalm> I wonder if I can get Pug type costume bits to go with the photobooth ;)
<czajkowski> nn folks :)
<bigcalm> Toodles
<AlanBell> anyone know what the HUD process is?
<AlanBell> the thing that sits on dbus and is not the UI but is the thing that does the menu searching
<AlanBell> ah, that is running but it isn't seeing any menus
<popey> unity-panel-service running?
<AlanBell> no, running in gnome-shell at the moment
<AlanBell> I think the applications are not exporting their menu items to the dbusmenu or something
<ali1234> well have you got the right environment variables set up so that all that stuff actually runs?
<AlanBell> the hud service runs, but doesn't have any content
<ali1234> like DESKTOP_SESSION and and one for dbus menu
<AlanBell> gdbus call --session --dest com.canonical.hud --object-path /com/canonical/hud --method com.canonical.hud.StartQuery "file" 5
<AlanBell> returns an empty result, but it does get an answer
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> qml item has properties scale and rotation
<ali1234> LOL
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-05
<ali1234> done: https://github.com/ali1234/jono-qml
<ali1234> just need some sounds now
<cocoa117> ali1234, can sticky bit (chmod +t xxx) apply to the subdirectories and files?
<cocoa117> or is there a way to do it?
<cocoa117> i mean kind like set it by default for a particular directory
<ali1234> that's what it is for
<ali1234> not sure how it work on subdirectories
<cocoa117> as admin, i want all the subdirectories and files can only be deleted by its owner, the group user can read/write to it, but can't delete it
<cocoa117> again, as admin, i want to set the rules, not monitoring every new file/directoires created
<cocoa117> never mind, i guess ACL is only way to go
<ali1234> i dunno if it's possible or not, i would have to google it
<ali1234> but yeah ACLs
<aquarius__> erk. my disk seems to be failing. Lots of disk errors in dmesg, and it's been "remounted read-only". I'm afraid to reboot in case it's all torched, but equally I have no idea what to do next. Anyone still around?
<aquarius__> I'm not even totally sure anyone can see what I'm writing :0
<directhex> aquarius__, yes, your send buffer works
<aquarius__> directhex: ah, that's at least useful
<directhex> aquarius__, the thing to do is get your important data somewhere safe, stat
<aquarius__> no-one seems to be awake in #ubuntu-kernel :(
<directhex> you have a handy replacement disk and usb caddy, right?
<aquarius__> important data largely is somewhere safe already
<aquarius__> either in bzr in launchpad, in U1, or in my mailbox.
<aquarius__> this is why I run deja-dup for backups
<aquarius__> #ubuntu seem to be too busy arguing about skype being non-free to actually answer support questions, hey ho :)
<aquarius__> directhex: I don't, however, have a replacement disk
<aquarius__> and I don't seem to be able to copy things with nautilus to the ssh box on the network
<aquarius__> although I can ssh to it from a terminal, so I'm copying stuff to the server in case everything goes tits up
<aquarius__> what I'm most worried about is: what do I *do*? I mean, if I reboot and it doesn't come up, I'll be really annoyed. But I have no idea how to fix this in the short term
<directhex> mount -o remount,rw /
<directhex> :D
<aquarius__> (in the long term the answer is presumably "shout at lenovo until they give me a new disk for my less-than-one-year-old laptop
<aquarius__> directhex: if I just remount it, what might go wrong?
<directhex> (they'll make you run some disk diagnostics from an iso)
<aquarius__> I mean, dmesg has lots of "the journal aborted" in it
<directhex> it might toast your superblocks and eat all your data
<aquarius__> right. That's what I'd like to avoid, obviously :)
<directhex> no "AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!" in your kernel? it's fiiiiiine.
 * directhex flees
<directhex> anyway, bed
<aquarius__> heh
<aquarius__> cheers, pal
<aquarius__> you are so far the most helpful person ever :)
<aquarius__> go to bed.
<directhex> i am more helpful than anyone else you've asked about this, though
<aquarius__> that's what I meant
<directhex> through virtue of being the only one to reply
<aquarius__> I wasn't being sarcastic in the least :)
<aquarius__> you are indeed the most helpful
<aquarius__> thanks for nothing, ubuntu support community ;-)
<directhex> and technically even if i'd said "COAT IT IN HONEY" that statement would be true. thank you einstein, everything *is* relative! :D
<aquarius__> srs, before you go: would you recommend (a) remount rw and see what happens, (b) reboot and see what happens, (c) something else?
<ali1234> don't remount it rw
<directhex> i'd try to scp valuable data to *anything* i had access to, then consider the entire partition compromised & useless
<directhex> possibly not in that order
<aquarius__> ali1234: aha, more advice. Thank you. What would you recommend next?
<ali1234> buy a new harddisk
<directhex> journal aborts kinda mean it's borked... unless, and this is a total edge case, it's the kernel up its own arse and not a physical issue at all
<aquarius__> directhex: yeah, that's what I'm doing, although pretty much all my valuable data is already saved elsewhere as well. Being this well-prepared is something of a new experience for me, but I'm glad I did it :)
<aquarius__> OK. Can I somehow diagnose whether the hardware is borked?
<directhex> and it might get cleared up by a reboot. buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut... lots of people use the kernel, and how many of them have phantom disk failures? not many
<directhex> aquarius__, http://support.lenovo.com/en_US/downloads/detail.page?&DocID=DS025448 - but that means a reboot
<aquarius__> I think we can all agree that the disk is fucked in the medium term, and I can copy stuff off it right now, and I should do that and then go buy a new disk
<aquarius__> is that it? I mean... should I try and fix things somehow?
<ali1234> no, actually you should turn it off and not turn it on again until you have a new disk
<ali1234> and a usb caddy
<aquarius__> what's a usb caddy for?
<ali1234> then you put the new disk in the usb caddy
<ali1234> boot up a live image
<aquarius__> directhex: yeah, I saw that. Mine's not on the list.
<ali1234> use ddrescue to image the drive onto the new drive
<aquarius__> directhex: this is an ideapad u300s, not a thinkpad
<ali1234> then you run recovery on the new drive to repait the filesystem
<ali1234> then you recovery whatever you can
<aquarius__> ali1234: aha. That's useful info.
<ali1234> then you reinstall
<ali1234> don't but the broken disk in the usb caddy
<ali1234> usb does not like broken disks at all and will cause you more problems
<aquarius__> OK.
<ali1234> like, at the first error, the disk will just go silent
<ali1234> which will prevent ddrescue from skipping badblocks
<aquarius__> sending it back to lenovo will cause them to write windows over the top of the disk anyway, so I lose all my data regardless :)
<ali1234> they will replace the hard disk anyway if it is broken
<aquarius__> yeah
<aquarius__> but then I have no laptop for weeks, which is why I don't want to do that :)
<directhex> excuse to buy an ssd!
<aquarius__> it *has* an SSD
<aquarius__> it's a flamin' one-year-old ultrabook
<aquarius__> the disc should not be dead.
<aquarius__> the really annoying thing is: I took the "support me if it breaks" thing from pcworld, of all places, and it ran out after twelve months, which was about 20 days ago.
<aquarius__> might be wrong abou tthat. I'll ring 'em in the morning.
<ball> Does Ubuntu ship with a command-line disk partitioning tool?
<ball> Ah, cfdisk?
<Whoop> yes
<ball> Whoop: Thanks
<ddfgt> hi
<ddfgt> how i can mount windows share on ubuntu?
<ddfgt> someone here?
<dogmatic69> ddfgt: tried smbmount?
<ddfgt> yes..
<dogmatic69> smbmount //server/path /local/path
<ddfgt> but it's ask for password..
<ddfgt> but if i do it with nautilus i'm only put the ip..
<dogmatic69> add -o credentials=/home/user/.smbpassword,uid=1000,gid=1000
<dogmatic69> make the .smbpassword file with your details
<dogmatic69> username=foo
<dogmatic69> password=bar
<dogmatic69> that is all you need in it
<dogmatic69> the uid/gid is your user / group id
<ddfgt> but i dont need a username / password for this share...
<dogmatic69> you just said it asks for it
<ddfgt> if i click in nautilus "file > connect to server" select "windows share" and put only the IP address - it is work fine..
<ddfgt> but when i try to make mount  - it's ask for password..
<ddfgt> dogmatic69, ?
<ddfgt> any idea?
<ali1234> "Today begins a new phase for Ubuntu, and it's a phase that requires our leadership."
<ali1234> anyone want to have a go at explaining what exactly that means?
<ali1234> specifically who is "our"?
<ali1234> also, since you can't "lead" an abstract concept, Ubuntu must refer to a group of people here, so who is that?
<ddfgt> hi
<ddfgt> how i can mount my NAS in ubuntu?
<bigcalm> Awake far too early on a Saturday morning. What to do?
<kvarley> ddfgt: If it's plugged in via ehternet to your LAN it should just be available in "Browse Network" on the left side of the file manager
<kvarley> bigcalm: if it's me, PHP + coffee + music always works nicely
<bigcalm> kvarley: PHP is my day job. Maybe some Python this morning
<kvarley> Does anybody know how big the images for Ubuntu for phones will be?
<ddfgt> kvarley, - this is work fine.. but i want to mount it..
<bigcalm> kvarley: look for the minimum specs for phones that will work with it. That might hint at size
<AlanBell> kvarley: my guess would be not bigger than the nexus 7 image
<kvarley> ddfgt: When you browse the NAS from there it will automatically mount it to /media/devicename
<AlanBell> kvarley: could be a lot smaller if they don't include irrelevant stuff like LibreOffice
<kvarley> ddfgt: If you're looking at manually mounting it, you need to look up samba command line examples and just substitute your info in there.
<ddfgt> kvarley, i try now
<kvarley> AlanBell: It looks amazing. Watching a demo video with Mark playing with a Nexus. I MUST buy a nexus now haha :)
<kvarley> It's way more responsive and fluid that I thought it would be at this stage
<ddfgt> kvarley, i can browse it with the nautilus.. if i do ls /media/ i cant see it..
<kvarley> ddfgt: Ah sorry, it will mount it it ~/.gvfs/ (~/ is your home folder)
<bigcalm> I wondered where nautilus mounts ended up
<ddfgt> kvarley, - king!
<AlanBell> kvarley: yeah, if you look past the odd marketing it might well be quite fun to use and develop for
<bigcalm> AlanBell: looking for a good on-screen keyboard and/or number pad. Any pointers?
<AlanBell> I am not going to go out and buy last years phone to run it on
<AlanBell> bigcalm: well I only really know about onboard, which is a comprehensive keyboard, but not a consumer focussed keyboard
<AlanBell> caribou is the gnome one which is more touchscreen/consumer focussed
<bigcalm> Ah. You might have realised that I need this for a kiosk mode
<bigcalm> Aha. I shall have a look, ta
<kvarley> AlanBell: That's my issue, I really want to try and test it but my current phone is a single core device with limited resources. Looking at the prices, it's still ~Â£400 for the top nexus 4 so I may as well wait until the next gen phones are out and pick up one of them.
<AlanBell> by which I mean doesn't have keys that normal people don't use like tab and backtick
<AlanBell> or alt-gr :)
<kvarley> ddfgt: If you want it mounted permanently or to a different folder (/media/devicename for example) check askubuntu for guides on samba mounting or this one - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MountWindowsSharesPermanently
<bigcalm> Fine by me :)
<AlanBell> bigcalm: in that case caribou or maliit
<AlanBell> I am almost certain that Maliit will be the keyboard for Ubuntu phone
<bigcalm> Not seeing Maliit in USC
<bigcalm> Will try caribou 1st
<ddfgt> kvarley, tnx
<kvarley> Technically my phone could run the entry level Ubuntu
<kvarley> 1GHz single core CPU, 768MB RAM. Only thing is only 1GB ROM on the phone
<kvarley> Assuming I could install the OS to the microSD and just the bootloader stuff on the phone's ROM it'd work
<kvarley> But porting to old hardware won't be fun so it probably won't happen
<AlanBell> anyone played Ryzom?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<kvarley> I want to run a server on my LAN for running git and a web server but I need it to have a desktop environment on as well for some of the people who'll use it. Would I be better installing the desktop version of Ubuntu (or a derivative) instead of installing the server version then installing a gui on top of that?
<bigcalm> This is odd. Still haven't found out how to start/use caribou
<bashrc> You could maybe use something like a Raspberry Pi as a web server or git server
<kvarley> bashrc: Not powerful enough, I'm looking to run many vhosts on the machine so it'll be pretty intensive. I currently have a webserver and git setup on the rpi, it's useful but won't handle the databases and vhosts
<kvarley> bashrc: I might just end up running something like Zentyal on it which ships with a desktop environment and other useful stuff. Ubuntu based too so it might be pretty good.
<AlanBell> kvarley: I would install the desktop version
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTR2tVr2a6A
<kvarley> AlanBell: Would you install the desktop version vs Zentyal?
<bashrc> I think you can install Debian on Raspberry Pis.  It would certainly be a low power solution for something like hosting a home page.
<kvarley> bashrc: It's not for hosting a homepage. It's going to be a testing web dev server so the rpi isn't powerful enough.
<bashrc> ok
<kvarley> bashrc: I own 2 raspberry pi's with debian running on them :)
<AlanBell> kvarley: we have zentyal running for our mail server, but I tend to prefer servers that are the same as my laptop so I can reproduce things easily
<popey> morning all
<popey> AlanBell: ali1234 https://launchpad.net/qml-toolkit bug reporting now enabled
<AlanBell> popey: is that for the documentation as well as the toolkit or do I talk to dpm or someone about that?
<popey> thats more for the toolkit itself
<popey> for documentation, speak to mhall119 or dpm, yes
<AlanBell> ok, great
<ali1234> what about design bugs?
<ali1234> like the "resolution independence" thing
<AlanBell> yeah, I was just wondering about that
<ali1234> the only out and out bug i found is that ogg files won't play in Qt multimedia
<ali1234> popey: what about bugs in the qt5 in the mobile sdk ppa?
<ali1234> i didn't use any ubuntu specific QML at all; it was unecessary
<AlanBell> 1gu is quite big really
<popey> perhaps file them there and we can reassign
<popey> better to get things recorded
<AlanBell> just did
<popey> cool
<AlanBell> so is this project manhatten?
<AlanBell> bug 1096341
<lubotu3> bug 1096341 in UI Toolkit "GU image size advice is wrong" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1096341
<ali1234> bug 1096345
<lubotu3> bug 1096345 in UI Toolkit "QML/Qt Multimedia won't play OGG files" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1096345
<ali1234> AlanBell: mwc reference looks like a dead giveaway
<popey> mwc reference?
<AlanBell> https://launchpad.net/~bzoltan is the maintainer of that project and is a member of the manhattan team and not much else
<popey> Zoltan does the SDK stuff
<ali1234> and the timeline the last item is "mwc update"
<AlanBell> which in turn leads to the project https://launchpad.net/manhattan/+series
<ali1234> https://launchpad.net/manhattan/+milestone/mwc-update
<AlanBell> not that this is particularly revealing or anything
<ali1234> it would have been if we had seen it last week
<ali1234> but i guess thats why it has a silly codename etc
<popey> exactly
<neuro> the phone project was codenamed the manhattan project?
<AlanBell> so HUD stuff, if I run "UBUNTU_MENUPROXY="libappmenu.so" DESKTOP_SESSION='ubuntu' gnome-terminal" then gnome-terminal runs, but has an application menu and doesn't export the menu to dbus
<neuro> jings
<AlanBell> running in a gnome shell session
<AlanBell> neuro: they have a bunch of private placename projects
<neuro> now i *really* have reservations
<neuro> please not to be shipping me a phone that can, you know, SPLIT FREAKIN' ATOMS
<popey> heh
<neuro> i don't want an OS with system specifications measured in kilotons or roentgens as well as MHz
<popey> manhattan being a city
<neuro> and also the "Manhattan Engineering District"
<neuro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Manhattan_District.svg
<neuro> that red bloom around the star at the top of the emblem looks awfully like that floaty swirly stuff around the circle on the phone lock screen ... sorry, welcome screen
<neuro> SUSPICIOUS
<popey> hah
 * AlanBell likes atom smashing
<AlanBell> higgs boson powered phone \o/
<penguin42> AlanBell: Bit heavy aren't they?
<neuro> ooh
<neuro> is that where you receive data packets before you request them?
<neuro> google now has the generic female voice, siri has the binty voice in the US, weakest link guy here ... ubuntu phone would have THE GOD (particle) VOICE
<neuro> I'M SORRY, THERE ARE NO NUCLEAR PARTICLE ACCELERATORS NEAR YOU!
<neuro> i could totally do the voice of the phone
<popey> more like "THAT FEATURE IS DISABLED ON YOUR MORTAL REALM"
<neuro> i do a mean Movie Trailer Man voice, i could do that
<AlanBell> oh, I will turn on my speech synth
<neuro> IN A WORLD ... WHERE (UBUNTU) ONE HAS YOUR DATA ...
<neuro> ... ONE PHONE WILL RISE ...
<neuro> ... and with that phone, Apple will ultimately dominate the mobile market with their clean, usable UI and massive, stable development base.
<neuro> IN THEATRES NOW.
<neuro> (THIS PHONE IS NOT YET RATED)
<neuro> actually, any lugradio/hashlugradio alumni in the vicinity may remember my Enemy Territory "plug" 30 second bit i did ...
<neuro> that was almost my Movie Trailer Man voice
<ali1234> it should have "the voice"
<neuro> jeez, i wonder if that's still kicking about
<neuro> ali1234: the weirding voice?
<ali1234> YES THAT ONE
<neuro> not sure i'd want a phone to have that
<ali1234> well done for getting the reference
<ali1234> i am happy now
<neuro> "ANNNNNSWWWWEEEERRRRR TTTHHHEEE PPPPPHHHHOOOOONEEEEEEE ...." "Er, I must answer the phone, it seems, excuse me"
<neuro> popey: oh dear god, i've found it: http://neuro.me.uk/projects/lugradio/audio/clan.trailer.mp3
<AlanBell> http://mumble.libertus.co.uk:59125/
<popey> i miss our ET nights
<neuro> timestamp 2005-03-18 05:05
<neuro> some of the guys have been trying to start them up again
<neuro> it's causing problems because the client is so frickin' old
<popey> yeah
<popey> i ended up playing on windows
<popey> also the anti-cheat site went down
<popey> punkbunster?
<popey> -n
<Azelphur> popey: is there an XBMC remote for iPhone?
<AlanBell> http://bit.ly/VBCdEZ
<neuro> yup
<neuro> all the ones i tried before i switched to Plex were a bit naff
<popey> yes Azelphur
<Azelphur> is it possible to link to things in the apple market like androids market:// links?
<popey> yes
<Azelphur> cool :)
<popey> https://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/official-xbmc-remote/id520480364?mt=8&uo=4
<Azelphur> ah nice, I just give that link and if you qr code scan it on an iPhone it takes you straight to the store?
<ali1234> i clicked on those mp3 links and rhythmbox crashed :(
<popey> there's a link on the page on the left
<popey> takes you to an itms:// link
<Azelphur> ah yes, cool ty :)
 * Azelphur is making a qr code for his TV 
<neuro> and in the app store inside itunes, click the drop down next to the price/downloaded button, you can copy the http link for later shenanigans
<Azelphur> even though it's a bit of an android fest around these parts, https://www.dropbox.com/s/8aq2gle8x1z50fq/2012-12-30%2002.53.03.jpg haha
 * neuro 's home is an apple home
<neuro> (the ubuntu servers and two windows machines aside)
<AlanBell> running notepad-qml it outputs "Connected to accessibility bus at:  "unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-zd04t68yLB,guid=52f7e497947d5291bfbd696650e821e9" "
<AlanBell> but it is silent in orca
<AlanBell> ali1234: do you know how rotation works? moving from portrait to landscape?
<ali1234> in what respect?
<AlanBell> does QML have some kind of notion of it?
<AlanBell> I can't see anything in the ubuntu QML stuff about screen orientation and the videos all seem to be portrait only
<ali1234> there is a sensor API in Qt mobility
<ali1234> it has stuff like that
<ali1234> it's not QML core though so ... that's why i was asking if it was available yesterday
<AlanBell> I am more thinking of the UI transition and whether things should move about to take advantage of width
<ali1234> QML is all about ttransition
<penguin42> is it done as xrandr?
<ali1234> well considering that QML runs on windows, mac, android, symbian as well, i'd say that's irrelevant
<ali1234> AlanBell: stuff like this is why there's much more to it than just throwing together a load of open source stuff
<ali1234> hardware adaption is serious business
<ali1234> tbh i'm not convinced ubuntu phone even has a landscape mode yet
<ali1234> i don't really seeing it happen in any of the demos
<AlanBell> yeah, I was just wondering if that was available for free by using QML or if it was in the not-done pile. If they had done it as part of the project they would no doubt have shown it off
<ali1234> well nothing in QML will work if you don't wire it up to your hardware
<AlanBell> indeed
<bashrc> Has anyone tried that qmlscene command?  I just get a segfault whenever I run it
<ali1234> yes, it works for me
<ali1234> try running it in gdb
<ali1234> oh, did you add restart shell after running the install command? it adds stuff to the environment
<bashrc> maybe I need to restart
<bashrc> still the same segfault
<bashrc> gdb indicates the problem is in libGL.so.1
<daubers> Afternoon
<popey> lo
 * daubers has finally had his mop chopped
<AlanBell> pics or it didn't happen
<daubers> :p
<popey> i should get mine done
<AlanBell> are you going to CES?
<popey> no
<popey> thankfully âº
<ubuntubhoy> Anyone care to spend the time to sort 12.04 not booting beyond 'checking battery state' please ??
<penguin42> ubuntubhoy: Be careful, the actual text there is not necessarily the cause - that may be just the last thing printed before it went south
<penguin42> yeh, adb shell on my cheapo Android TV dongle
<ali1234> hmm, a question
<ali1234> can you take a 32 bit binary, disassemble it to assembly code, and then rebuild it as 64 bit?
<sagaci> good luck with that
<penguin42> ali1234: There are ways of doing that; it's hard to do statically, easier to do dynamically
<ali1234> i don't see a problem doing this. what could possibly go wrong?
<penguin42> ali1234: There are a few problems
<penguin42> ali1234: FOr example, the data structures returned by the kernel in 64bit mode are different/longer
<penguin42> ali1234: Secondly finding all the code statically is very hard
<ali1234> it's a windows device driver :P
<penguin42> ali1234: It's normally simpler to wrap a 64bit wrapper around the victim and make calls to 32bit code whenever you need to do that; on linux you can do that for userspace code with libffi
<penguin42> (and a lot of work)
<ali1234> yeah... it's a device driver tho :)
<ali1234> i want to use a 32 bit driver on 64 bit windows
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure what Windows offers for that; it's tricky - for example if the OS allocated a buffer in an area above 4GB and passed you a pointer what would you do?
<ali1234> it offers nothing at all
<ali1234> hmm good point
<ali1234> for a wrapper
<ali1234> but if i'm recompiling the whole thing as 64 bit, i'd do nothing
<ali1234> i mean i could disassemble it, look at all the API calls and then rewrite it in C and rebuild for 64 bit, but it seems like a large part of that work could be automated
<penguin42> ali1234: It's possible the OS has a way of saying 'hey allocate below 4GB please and make 32bit calls' but the other way is your wrapper has to copy data around
<ali1234> it's a usb driver so it isn't writing directly into PCI memory or anything like that
<penguin42> ali1234: Right, but the OS might pass you a buffer full of data
<ali1234> yes, but always by a known documented API
<ali1234> i wonder if you can "puppet" a windows driver into running in user mode
<ali1234> then the 32 bit code could run
<penguin42> ali1234: What type of driver?
<ali1234> a TWAIN driver
<penguin42> ah scanner?
<ali1234> according to the internet you can take the drive for a different scanner and hack the IDs and it just works
<penguin42> ali1234: I suspect that depends if they have the same underlying hardware - I guess a lot are the same hardware with a different label on
<ali1234> they all use the same backend on sane
<penguin42> ah well yeh
<penguin42> can you just get sane for windows?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> only the crappy sane front end tool
<ali1234> which just uses twain under windows
<directhex> yes. but only for network scanners.
<ali1234> (and there's a twain bridge too)
<ali1234> hmm it partially works
<popey> AlanBell: see they want to do an askubuntu like stackexchange for openerp? http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/43481/openerp?referrer=DbZiUIEEr0odmpKS2kqovw2
<AlanBell> yup, I am one of the followers
<AlanBell> dunno why it didn't link to my profile properly though, it picked up all your reputation and treated me like a newbie
<directhex> http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey - more than twice as many people running steam on 64 bit than 32 bit, even though only 32 bit is "supported"
<directhex> on ubuntu, that is
<daftykins> ^_^
<directhex> more people running ubuntu than 32-bit windows 8
<directhex> more people running 64-bit ubuntu than 64-bit XP
<directhex> all interesting stats IMHO
<daftykins> indeed
<penguin42> 0.81% ubuntu (and I bet some of the other is Linux_ which maybe higher than I expected
<daftykins> you ever get the feeling of deja vu when tagging new additions to your music collection 0o
<daftykins> could've sworn i've done this before >_<
<daftykins> directhex: are the games 64-bit native on Ubuntu? just the steam client that's 32?
<directhex> daftykins, some of the games are 64-bit native, but 64-bit native games cannot use the steam overlay or achievements
<daftykins> haha, oopsy
<daftykins> interesting, thanks
<directhex> daftykins, there's only a 32-bit libsteam.so
<daftykins> is it really that hard to make things 64-bit? i thought it'd just be the format of the variables and that'd be it
<daftykins> though, this is why i'm no coder ^_^
<penguin42> So what's the sudden interest in qml?
<popey> penguin42: ubuntu phone
<popey> see http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
<penguin42> ah thanks
<penguin42> popey: So that's qml driving unity/gnome?
<penguin42> qml->qt->gnome ?
<popey> gnome has nothing to do with it really
<penguin42> well, what's the widget set - is it qt or gtk/gnome widgets?
<penguin42> or nux?
<daftykins> there been any news on all that EFI boot laptop bricking yet?
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh
<penguin42> daftykins: It seems to only be a certain range of Samsungs, the current belief seems to be that it's the samsung-laptop kernel module that has a disagreement with the bios and they're going to disable that module from loading when in EFI mode
<daftykins> ah-har, neat
<daftykins> think some Macs were doing it too though?
<penguin42> not heard of any bricking
<penguin42> there are a lot of broken EFI bioses though; there have been reports of one that will only boot images with names of Windows version ... or RedHat Linux version ...
<penguin42> and there was another Samsung one somewhere where it has some odd hidden menu options
<daftykins> ;/
<daftykins> i'm not fond of Windows EFI installs
<daftykins> extra hassle and no perceivable benefit
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> other than being GPT to get over the disk size limitation ofc
<daftykins> but nobody sane installs an OS into a single partition on a 3+TB drive :D
<penguin42> hmph, this is annoying; I've not got enough USB bits or the uSD card to carry on playing with my new toy
<daftykins> what do you need? card reader?
<penguin42> well, this thing has one USB socket and a uSD slot; so a powered USB hub would probably do it; or the uSD card that my Amazon vendor has screwed up sending me
<directhex> ... huh. colour me astonished: WP8 appears not to use any MTP-Z nonsense. plugged into ubuntu: works fine in nautilus. i can see my photos and stuff
<daftykins> why on earth do you have one of those phones directhex ? :>
<directhex> Ringtones folder just contains an MP3 i pushed on via the windows sync app
<directhex> daftykins, because i really really really really really like the windows phone UX, and android gives me stomach ulcers
<daftykins> you have no love for android? but it's lovely :>
<directhex> android is the kde 3 of smartphones.
<daftykins> too much UI prettification with mass slowdown and resource waste as a consequence? :>
<directhex> ...that's what i just said
<daftykins> just checking!
<daftykins> at least they've finally begun optimising instead of just throwing faster hardware at it
<directhex> i'll believe it when i see it
<directhex> you can't trust a new android phone, it degrades over time as badly as win98
<daftykins> true, i suppose both carry on
<ali1234> popey: you post my software on g+ and the license trolls are bugging me within 10 seconds :S
<popey> haha
<daftykins> i haven't done anything about trying the solution to my Desire's 150MB /data issue yet
<ali1234> "public domain isn't a real license"
<popey> so i see
<ali1234> half tempted to switch license to BSD with a clause stating that the json guy can't use it
<ali1234> i am such a troll
<popey> hah
<daftykins> ^_^
<ali1234> so what's the diff. between BSD and MIT?
<Azelphur> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/misc/2012/December/wifi.png thoughts? gonna stick this on my wall :P
<daftykins> haha nice
<daftykins> surely that's QR and not NFC though, unless you're gonna put some kinda tag beneath?
<ali1234> and then set up a captive portal that renders webpages through that upside down proxy
<Azelphur> gonna put a tag on the back of the sheet :)
<Azelphur> ali1234: rofl :p
<popey> upsidedownternet
<popey> or just capture all packets
<daftykins> Azelphur: really neat idea, think i shall do the same once i move out! how did you generate it?
<Azelphur> I used the instawifi android app, it writes NFC tags and generates QR Codes
<daftykins> 8D
<popey> do the codes work with ios devices?
<Azelphur> popey: dunno, scan it! :p
<popey> oh yeah âº
<popey> phone not to hand
<popey> not sure what I'd scan it with.. does it go to a url?
<popey> i mean, I have an app, but usually only use it for barcodes on products
<Azelphur> it runs a wifi: URL
<daftykins> my phone is so stupid at picking the right wireless network in this house Â¬_Â¬
<daftykins> they always want to pick the low signal one
<Azelphur> so the QR code contains "wifi:S;Azelphur:T;WPA:P;wqpzsjyipeguyvrd;;"
<Azelphur> daftykins: same, haha
<popey> daftykins: which phone?
 * daftykins installs InstaWifi
<daftykins> popey: the old school HTC Desire
<popey> i find android devices hang onto a weak singnal
<daftykins> she's 3 now, bless 'er
<popey> -n
<popey> iphone and ipad seem to switch to the strongest one fine
<daftykins> i think it's just fail prioritisation
<popey> and ubuntu âº
<Azelphur> in my house Ubuntu always used to connect to the wrong AP
<daftykins> heh, had a feeling it'd require root, so it must read the wpa supplicant config
<Azelphur> yea, I don't think it requires root, just optional extra
<daftykins> did you screenshot the code out of the app, or use the share feature 0o
<Azelphur> share, emailed it to myself
<daftykins> ah-ha :D
<daftykins> if the dev made it output to SVG that'd be neat
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> QR Codes scale pretty well anyway.
<daftykins> ja
<daftykins> i love the ones in Borderlands 2 :>
 * Azelphur prints onto glossy paper
<daftykins> 8D
<Azelphur> printer falls over and dies.
<Azelphur> and makes grinding noises
<Azelphur> oshit -.-
<Azelphur> that does not sound healthy at all o.O
<Azelphur> I think my printer doesn't like this glossy paper lol, it took it in a bit, announced that there was an error, I told it to paper feed and it started grinding and not doing a lot
<daftykins> X|
<daftykins> printers. glad i don't own one \o/
<Azelphur> think I put it in upside down, maybe that's why.
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> finally culling some junk on my storage
<daftykins> so tempting to ditch all SD films XD
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<ali1234> i want to drop all non-HD channel from my mythtv
<ali1234> but i can't figure out how
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: mysql mythdb
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: DELETE FROM tv_channels WHERE
<MartijnVdS> wtc.
<MartijnVdS> etc.*
<ali1234> yeah i know but i can't figure out that table for channels because it is insane
<MartijnVdS> yeah I figured it wouldn't be that easy
<ali1234> and they only come back when i retune anyway
<ali1234> mythtv seriously needs a rewrite
<ali1234> bored gnome developers should have done that instead
<ali1234> the UI can't even work with a mouse let alone a touch screen
<popey> wasnt someone forking it?
<ali1234> not that i know of
<popey> torque?
<popey> torc
<MartijnVdS> is gnome-dvb still a thing/
<popey> https://github.com/Torc/torc
<ali1234> sounds good
<ali1234> but... mythtv is so brittle i'm afraid to mess with it
<ali1234> since it's working ok at the moment
<ali1234> next time it breaks though...
<popey> every time I moan about mythtv people suggest other options like VDR
<MartijnVdS> VDR wants to take over your entire system, even more than MythTV
<MartijnVdS> and last time I checked it was dead-ish as well
<MartijnVdS> I mean.. their home page looks like it's from 1995
<MartijnVdS> and they mention "SUse 10 with 2.6.13"
<ali1234> VDR is madness
<ali1234> everyone who uses it is certifiably insane
<ali1234> especially that "VDR_MAN" guy
<MartijnVdS> "Unfortunately no public repository is being actively used for development of VDR on a patch-by-patch basis. "
<MartijnVdS> (http://linuxtv.org/wiki/index.php/VDR)
<ali1234> VDR is mythtv for people who grew up with  teletype terminals that print on paper
<MartijnVdS> The commits to the git repository are giant code bombs which mirror the tar files on the VDR homepage.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: as I said, there's gnome-dvb
<MartijnVdS> but last time I used it it was .. flaky
<directhex> gah, i'm so very close :/
<MartijnVdS> it's supposed to work with a totem plugin
<Azelphur> how odd, my printer prints fine onto this random card I have sitting around
<Azelphur> but if I give it photo paper, it goes nuts
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: because photo paper is shiny?
 * Azelphur shrugs
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I love the VDR linuxtv-wiki page:
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: TODO list
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: or, what needs to happen coz it's the freakin' 21st century already and splattering plugins, patches and scripts over 50+ websites and several forums and mailing lists is ueberlame:
<ali1234> well, mythtv ain't much better :/
<ali1234> and yeah yeah gnome-dvb
<daftykins> gah Explorer is so buggy >_<
<ali1234> but that doesn't support headless operation, which is kind of a deal breaker
<ali1234> come to think of it, i don't think VDR does either
<daftykins> delete this folder please Windows 'no the thumbs.db file is locked' - but it's only locked because you locked it Â¬_Â¬
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: I've switched to "timeout" + testdvb + szap
<ali1234> i rolled my own system like that
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: it's ugly but I get huge .ts files that I can manipulate with avconv
<ali1234> i had a full web interface that fetched xml files and it even streamed the live tv or recordings into a embedded vlc plugin
<ali1234> and then i lost the code
<ali1234> i don't even know how i lost it
<ali1234> i might still have it somewhere but i've been looking for it for about 4 years
<MartijnVdS> too bad the DVB api is so hard to use from anything but C
<MartijnVdS> (and even then..)
<ali1234> well i just used the dvbstream + tzap
<ali1234> and shellscripts on cgi
<MartijnVdS> dvbstream doesn't work reliably for me :(
<ali1234> and cron
<ali1234> it was awesome
<ali1234> i wish i still had it
<ali1234> i would work much better these days, now that vlc and firefox doesn't suck
<MartijnVdS> I've been thinking of making something proper in Python or Perl
<MartijnVdS> biggest problem is EPG storage/management
<ali1234> i dumped listing to flat xml files
<ali1234> with some shellscript i found
<MartijnVdS> also, the fact that "tuning" (szap) is separate from "viewing" (dvbstream)
<MartijnVdS> I have 100mbit upstream now, so I could watch HD channels from home at work 8-)
<ali1234> then the cgi would use cat and globbing to join them up into a listing for a channel between a time period
<ali1234> EPG was the best part of it
<ali1234> i'm now going to pointlessly grep my old harddrives for the code once more
<MartijnVdS> to boldly grep where no man has grepped before
<ali1234> well damn
<ali1234> i've accidentally overwritten one of my external hard drives with an installation ISO
<ali1234> that sucks
<daftykins> >_<
<daftykins> nasty
<ali1234> wait, no i haven't
<ali1234> it's just refusing to mount for some reason
<ali1234> hmm
<czajkowski> popey: http://i.imgur.com/p94e2.jpg  one for you
<daftykins> XD
<ali1234> oh, the cable isn't plugged in >.<
<daftykins> 130GB reclaimed deleting rubbish films
<daftykins> not too bad
<daftykins> really is therapeutic deleting things :>
<ali1234> i accidentally /usr/bin the other day
<ali1234> that was fun
<ali1234> i was able to install --reinstall all packages from dpkg database though, so it was fixed quite easily
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/2ejlj624exmmgk7/2013-01-05%2019.58.07.jpg finished job
<Azelphur> why green paper? because my printer hates me.
<penguin42> Azelphur: I assume that really causes people to redirect people to some random evil network
<Azelphur> penguin42: nope, it's actually functional and does what it says on the tin xD
<popey> ali1234: not so easy when /usr/bin and /bin are merged?
<ali1234> doubt it would have made much difference actually
<ali1234> nothing in /bin was actually useful except for /bin/sh
<ali1234> i had to copy livecd /usr/bin into the system first
<popey> ah
<solarcloud_3scrn> how descriptive of such acomment :D
<solarcloud_3scrn> Does anyone know how many of the distro's on distrowatch have a So-called 'App center' .. I'm thinking they such have come on a bit in the last few years ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> **they should have ..
<popey> i expect most do
<popey> if you count "apt-get install foo" as an app centre
<solarcloud_3scrn> Des anyone have the web-link for the wekly podcast over at distro-watch ??
<solarcloud_3scrn> **Does
<popey> its linked at the top of their site
<popey> http://distrowatch.com/podcast/dww20121224.ogg
<popey> http://distrowatch.com/podcast/dww20121224.mp3
<solarcloud_3scrn> great, thanks.
<solarcloud_3scrn> Wow, Bruc3 really sounds good in this one .. It's a year's summary .. Of course I must say, there are other podcasts .. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Podcasts
<daftykins> hrmm, is there a way to work out what's causing so much IO in ubuntu server VMs?
<daftykins> any maintenance tasks perhaps that cause high IO briefly?
<jacobw> iotop
<ali1234> hmm... i found it!
<jacobw> ali1234: you did?
<ali1234> yes, i found the code that i lost for years
<daftykins> jacobw: ty sir
<ali1234> it's basically a TV player app done as a html app
<ali1234> except i did it before html apps were cool
<ali1234> and instead of using a typical SQL/NOSQL database for the backend, it's all done with shell scripts and flat files
<ali1234> it only needs a webserver with cgi and haserl
<ali1234> gonna try to set it up...
<jacobw> that sounds great
<ali1234> for the tv player you just need firefox and vlc plugin
<ali1234> this would actually be really good for an androd tablet
<ali1234> assuming you could get one that could play HD video
<jacobw> i'd be interested to see it
<daftykins> ah-har, keep seeing python appear doing landscape things. not sure if that's what's causing the activity yet though
<jacobw> daftykins: what kind of IO are you seeing?
<daftykins> well, i just see the hard disk get hammered occasionally in my server by seeing the light on, plus irssi on one of my VMs begins to chug when i'm only connected via local LAN
<daftykins> it's a dedi-VM disk
<jacobw> libvirt using a dedication disk?
<jacobw> *dedicated
<daftykins> nah vmware
<daftykins> Windows 7 host (gasp)
<jacobw> ok
<jacobw> well, you could check IO in the VM then check that only vmware uses that disk from Windows and check that irssi isn't lagging with the server
<daftykins> sure, it typed slowly as i heard the disk go so i'm pretty sure it's disk activity
<daftykins> i've got KiTTY sessions open with both VMs with iotop running now :>
<daftykins> though it warns me... CONFIG_TASK_DELAY_ACCT not enabled in kernel, cannot determine SWAPIN and IO %
<daftykins> identified it :)
<daftykins> for some reason one VM is quite frequently running...
<daftykins> python /usr/bin/landscape-package-reporter --quiet
<daftykins> damn you landscape! *shakes fist*
<jacobw> sudo apt-get remove landscape-common
<daftykins> sure could, better would probably be to de-reg the system
<daftykins> thanks anywho :)
<jacobw> :)
<ali1234> http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/epg/
<ali1234> check it
<daftykins> no dataz
<jacobw> that's nice
<ali1234> not only no dataz, it's also not executing any of the server side scripting at all
<ali1234> that's how much of it is static
 * directhex continues to wait
<ali1234> that's why you see the shell script, instead of the output from it
<ali1234> i don't think i should fix the cgi, this code is hilariously insecure
<jacobw> :)
<ali1234> source if you want to play with it http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/epg/epg.tar.gz
<ali1234> don't put it on a public server though, unless you want to get owned
<ali1234> hmm wait i already uploaded this http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/random/epg.tar.gz and then forgot about it
<solarcloud_3scrn> mark___ what .. shuttle.-buy-us-a-bus- worth ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> obviously, he's not a bowler.
<popey> Êâ¿à² 
<solarcloud_3scrn> popey, hazchem signs n'again, popey  ??
<directhex> GOTCHA!
<daftykins> ?
<directhex> Device 0 (VID=0421 and PID=0661) is a Nokia Nokia Lumia WP8.
<directhex> Sending /data/Media/Music/FischerSpooner/Unknown Album/03. Emerge.mp3 to Music/Emerge.mp3
<directhex> W
<directhex> O
<directhex> R
<directhex> K
<directhex> S
<daftykins> that not been done before?
<directhex> never worked properly in WP7
<directhex> and since wp8 can patch itself (unlike wp7 which needed the zune desktop app for patches), wp8 is no worse than iphone as a desktop linux user's choice
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-06
<solarcloud_3scrn> directhex,  Can you open this on your Lumia ( 810??) http://open.spotify.com/album/2rP4S3oMjDm7UWioSXUvzA |ALSO Chrispirillo has a vidz on this one .. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVYPbrEGdW4&list=UUhQl2YkLt3dj-KDyGUBzcHw&index=18 Apparently none of the basic Apps come preinstalled except the camera-App & you need at least three P/wards to get this going, MSDN/MS P/word (never used one), Sk
<solarcloud_3scrn> ydrive P/word (I've only NAS and dropbox), and Xbox (After I bought this baby:: http://goo.gl/BXY3C /Why/ would I want to join the club ?) .. the vidz a bit old; Dec 28th '12 but he shows how thorny the set-up is .. when will I see the set-up stage process of the Ãphone on youtu.be ??
<directhex> solarcloud_3scrn, it wants me to install a spotify app, but there's no spotify app available
<directhex> solarcloud_3scrn, and the lumia 810 and 822 are US carrier specific, the 820 is the global version
<Klettbar> big green
<Klettbar>  "take a break in big green"
<Klettbar> hints for the emaning
<Klettbar> meaning
<popey> morning
<kvarley> popey: Morning :) how's it going?
<popey> good good
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Ding
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> o/
<dwatkins> gz, bigcalm
<bigcalm> bz2?
<dwatkins> http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix_talk:English_internet_slang#GZ_and_DING
<dwatkins> hehe
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: xz
<bigcalm> Goodness
<bigcalm> The things I miss out on by not playing such things
<codecowboy> hi. anyone know why i can to do an openssl connect from the command line in an ubuntu vm except when I have a vpn connection open (on the VM)? the target is internet accessible.
<dwatkins> 'XZ Utils is free general-purpose data compression software with high compression ratio. XZ Utils were written for POSIX-like systems, but also work on some not-so-POSIX systems. XZ Utils are the successor to LZMA Utils.'
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: openssl s_client -host X -port Y
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: openssl s_client --help for more :)
<codecowboy> MartijnVdS thanks that doesn't answer my question. I know how to connect, I'm asking for advice / insight as to why it does't connect under certain conditions.
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: in that case, check your routes
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: the VPN might be messing with your default route
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: ip route show
<codecowboy> MartijnVdS cool, thanks
<MartijnVdS> codecowboy: traceroute/mtr should show you if this is the problem as well, I think
<zleap> hi
<penguin42> hey
<popey> moo
<bigcalm> oom
<zleap> moo
<shauno> hm, irssi keeps choking today.  most confusing.
<bigcalm> It's so peaceful in here on Sundays :)
<deav> <silence>
 * penguin42 drops a pin
<solarcloud_3scrn> http://open.spotify.com/track/4rkCpLM0RplVzW2OfoH9VL
<bashrc> ZZZzzz
<penguin42> is knackered after the 1st 3 days back at work this year; only another 200 odd to go
<SuperEngineer> boo!
<SuperEngineer> just reserved a [minor] upgrade to current desktop - a real bare metal pc - no pre-installed op sys
<penguin42> which one?
<SuperEngineer> http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/5074354.htm
<penguin42> ah yeh, one of the zoostorms
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I got one of the other zoostorms for my dad (from ebuyer) - worked ok, not that quiet a psu, but not too bad
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: good news.
<SuperEngineer> [though I suspect many here will say "...& that's an upgrade?" in my case  ;)
<SuperEngineer> ..& if fans are too loud - I'll work out a way to muzzle them I hope
<rena5192> Hello guys, I am from Brazil, and I am living in Europe at the moment. I would like to know what is the most famous events about IT in Europe, do you know about it? In Brazil we have Campus Party in SP, really cool.
<SuperEngineer> rena5192: if you're available to travel to UK - OggCamp - assuming you're into open source
<solarcloud_3scrn> rena5192, https://fosdem.org/
<rena5192> Yes, I live in UK. :)
<rena5192> Thank you, I will take a look about OggCamp
<popey> rena5192: also look at UKUUG events
<rena5192> and thank you Solar I will check this website
<rena5192> that's great
<rena5192> Thank you Popey
<SuperEngineer> popey: ;)
<solarcloud_3scrn> rena5192, Both are cold, but at least at fosdem .. all you pay is the airfare to Brussels  .. couchsurf the rest.
<solarcloud_3scrn> I done fosdem many times over.
<rena5192> Really cool
<rena5192> I was looking for Campus Pary in Spain, but I think is not so famous like in Brazil.
<solarcloud_3scrn> video/s on youtube .. also the couchsurfing group (ask this week to get a free bed) .. also a lot of people will speak your language/s.
<rena5192> cool
<rena5192> thank you very much, I really appreciate it
<solarcloud_3scrn> Probably will be very cold .. so expect to wrap up.
<rena5192> lol, that's fine, I prefer cold weather :)
<rena5192> 25 years living in Brazil.. around 35 degrees...
<SuperEngineer> rena5192: the only "35" we get here at the moment is 35 inches of rain
<solarcloud_3scrn> Expect -2 celcius.
<rena5192> Great :)
<SuperEngineer> popey: have reserved one of those zoostorms you retweeted. cheap enough to take the risk - risk because nowhere states full or m/b spec or uefi etc... do I care - nah! thanks for the info
<solarcloud_3scrn> SuperEngineer, I have zoostorms all over my ebay saved searches .. AFAs the service .. it's an american company as I have researched them; and ebay.co.uk is littered with plenty of PC-boxes that are overpriced, outdated and v. poor service. In my 3 years of getting daily emails from zoostorm/ebay.co.uk
<solarcloud_3scrn> poor service .. in my 3
<solarcloud_3scrn> rena didn't stay long .. it seems this #channel didn't suit optimistic ppl.
<solarcloud_3scrn> at large....
<penguin42> solarcloud_3scrn: Really? I thought they were Liverpool based
<penguin42> solarcloud_3scrn: I mailed them after the one I bought from ebuyer was missing a serial port (which they said was ebuyers fault because they didn't think it should have one) and got a reply from a 'cms-computers.co.uk'
<SuperEngineer> solarcloud_3scrn: this is why I was tempted by it being avaialble from argos... uk statutory if "not fit for purpose" applies.
<solarcloud_3scrn> It's acommon mistake with zoosorm , but they are actually a NewYork company with a Liverpoul front. Be under no illusions they are not a British company .. all the loot goes back to the Yanks in Americae. Steer-clear my friend.
<solarcloud_3scrn> **zoostorm
<penguin42> solarcloud_3scrn: Why does it matter if they have a liverpool front?
<solarcloud_3scrn> service is not up o UK standard.
<solarcloud_3scrn> **up to
<penguin42> I've not seen any good UK service for a machine like that
<SuperEngineer> solarcloud_3scrn: the loot in this case goes via Argos UK to them... me not affected by where they are based
<solarcloud_3scrn> aria pc .. try there.
<penguin42> it was a standard motherboard (I thunk Asus can't remember - one of the 4 char A... makers)
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: if Asus - that's good [enough] - thanks
<solarcloud_3scrn> aria .. least there from Manchester and the money stays in the region.
<penguin42> solarcloud_3scrn: Well, for Aria I'd say at least it's from Manchester so I can get on a bus and slam it down on their desk if it doesn't work; but if I'm doing stuff via post I don't really care
<solarcloud_3scrn> personally, If you dont care then use the proper Auction site channels .. ebay/freegle/preloved.co.uk
<SuperEngineer> ...my honourable colleaugue's [aka me] last remark re statutory right if not fit for purpose applies
<SuperEngineer> and yes - I did see argos on-site notice re the return policy on this machine
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. that way you sdhaft the lot of them.
<solarcloud_3scrn> Do you know how to-d a saved search on ebay.co.uk ??
<solarcloud_3scrn> **to-do
<SuperEngineer> solarcloud_3scrn: you do realise that address is a redirect I assume
<solarcloud_3scrn> A penny saved in a penny earned :D   what www.ebay.co.uk ??
<solarcloud_3scrn> **...saved is a...
<SuperEngineer> nah - the ebay/freegle/preloved.co.uk is a redirect
<solarcloud_3scrn> they're separate sites, of course.
<SuperEngineer> yup
<SuperEngineer> rule 1 in safe browser use - no redirect declare - no go
<solarcloud_3scrn> No one does saved searches here .. I mean some of those sites do RSS and everything..
 * solarcloud_3scrn bangs his head on his desk aaaagain.
 * SuperEngineer hands solarcloud_3scrn some virtual aspirin
 * solarcloud_3scrn checks his 17 emails from ebay.co.uk to save Â£Â£Â£, for solice.
<SuperEngineer> ;)
 * SuperEngineer checks his own - sent without using sites doing undeclared redirects
<solarcloud_3scrn> Say cheese .. http://goo.gl/UmQBb
<SuperEngineer> or say chose
<solarcloud_3scrn> or say chookies .. http://www.instructables.com/id/Cookie-Bra/ :)  mmmh cookies..
<SuperEngineer> cookie-bra? are you suggesting I've got man-breasts!
<SuperEngineer> not yet
<SuperEngineer> ...beware - it's been a nasty day at work, I'm in a silly mood
<solarcloud_3scrn> oh Ok .. but , seriously I do have moobies .. :(
<solarcloud_3scrn> Apparantly it's 7 to 2 with Wiliam Hill that Murrray will Win Wimbledon , this year.
<solarcloud_3scrn> 10 t 1 that Middleton will have twins ... due to hyperemsis-gravidarum with Sportingbet.
<SuperEngineer> solarcloud_3scrn: ...and for Charles ever taking the crown?
<SuperEngineer> [low odds I assume]
<AlanBell> I think he will for a few hours at least
<SuperEngineer> definite lol
<AlanBell> stick it on, do one big speech, and hand it over
<solarcloud_3scrn> I'm a screenshot-shooterist .. although I do ocassionally let my crosshair-aim wander...
<solarcloud_3scrn> Graham Smith's my ceasar ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsAeGfwS6qA
<solarcloud_3scrn> **caesar
 * SuperEngineer cacels Artha search for ceasar
<SuperEngineer> **cancels
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<solarcloud_3scrn> BTW .. the best tip AFAs odds go ... is SMP.L on the LSE http://goo.gl/rpJJx
<solarcloud_3scrn> I've had too much Red Leicester  .. so I have a headache now .. :(
<solarcloud_3scrn> This is how my head feels at the moment ::
<solarcloud_3scrn> http://www.amazon.com/Recompute/dp/B004CFZVO4/ref=sr_1_27?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1357500461&sr=1-27&keywords=ubuntu
<solarcloud_3scrn> thoughts ??
<dwatkins> your head feels like a cardboard computer?
<solarcloud_3scrn> total over-reused.
<SuperEngineer> what's needed here is a "my head hurts - stop it" lens.
<SuperEngineer> [I have one of those lenses - but it's attached to my camera, not my Ubuntu]
<SuperEngineer> On a more quizzical topic -anyone heard when/if G+ might change the APi to alllow external apps proper access?
<solarcloud_3scrn> I haven't heard ..but if a google communities lense pops up .. It'll be the end of this type of #channel. IMHO
<solarcloud_3scrn> I mean popey's already a sex symbol on the Ubuntu community  (sorry Mr Pope !)
<popey> hah
<popey> hardly
<solarcloud_3scrn> you just need to change "Screenshots" to "Screenshot Friday"  and I'd at least check my account every Saturday.. just to see. ...
<SuperEngineer> Impressed by this blokes thoughts http://tinyurl.com/sensible-thought [planet-gnome]
<AlanBell> !bloke
<SuperEngineer> [sorry bloke/blokess]
<SuperEngineer> ...& yes - should have read bloke's - I slap my wrist
<AlanBell> should have read "woman's" :)
<AlanBell> and apparently lubotu3 doesn't know anything about bloke
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: you win!
<SuperEngineer> but still impressed
<solarcloud_3scrn> SuperEngineer, MMh, Funny, My dad said never do business with bfriends !" when I was 10 years old.. it decimated my investments-club for over 15 years.. until I woke up.
<SuperEngineer> AlanBell: Impressed by this woman's thoughts http://tinyurl.com/sensible-thought [planet-gnome] - any better?
<SuperEngineer> !blokess
<SuperEngineer> nope not blokess either
<SuperEngineer> !pc
<AlanBell> !botabuse
<SuperEngineer> oh tut tut!
<lubotu3> Please investigate with me only with "/msg ubottu Bot" or in #ubuntu-bots.  Search for factoids with "/msg ubottu !search factoid".
<AlanBell> :)
<solarcloud_3scrn> I seems to have seen her webpage before ??
<AlanBell> probably, she was a director of Gnome and now is a director at Mozilla
<solarcloud_3scrn> #/msg ubottu !custard-creams
<solarcloud_3scrn> soz .. just checking...
<AlanBell> !botsnack
<lubotu3> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
 * SuperEngineer votes for !pooter to be added to lubottu. pooter: "the machine you're using, doh!"
<daftykins> i think factoids are generally best having an actual purpose
<SuperEngineer> darn
<SuperEngineer> but very tactfully put ;)
<DJones> hmmh, suggestions that Blizzard are planning a Linux game announcement sometime this year http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI2ODE
<daftykins> ^_^
<solarcloud_3scrn> Iwas just wondering .. I've  got a hard-disk for old XP-machine-desktop from 2004 .. I was wondering if there was a good virus-scanner tosee if I *was* completely infected or not , that say does a free trial for 30 days , or not ?
<solarcloud_3scrn> I haven't used a good anti-virus since Ubuntu.
<daftykins> i think some people scan slaved Windows drives with clamav
<DJones> This lists quite a few https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Antivirus
<solarcloud_3scrn> clamav .. is terrible but thanks DJones .. opening...
<DJones> Heh, just looking at the eset website, they offer a linux antivirus scanner with a link to a free online scanner, when you try it, it wants to download & install a .exe file....Linked from a page offering a linux AV system, DOH!
<solarcloud_3scrn> haha !  BTW .. has anyone ever tried "avast.com/linux-home-edition" ??
<daftykins> DJones: geniuses
<daftykins> why don't you try it and tell us? :)
<DJones> In a word..... Nah!
<solarcloud_3scrn> .. takes 30 minutes to get the reg. key .. but I will do !
<mh0> i never even knew there was antivirus for linux
<mh0> nor that it would be needed
<mh0> lol
<solarcloud_3scrn> it is thoretically possible :)
<mh0> usually any threat, I just iptable
<bigcalm> In Python, how do I check a variable to be this? <flags GDK_WINDOW_STATE_FULLSCREEN of type GdkWindowState>
<dutchie> bigcalm: generally explicit type checking in python is Wrong, but use the type function
<bigcalm> dutchie: I tracked down what I was meant to do, hopefully correctly :)
<bigcalm> Ta for the pointer
<dutchie> np
<solarcloud_3scrn> Anyone want a stab at a wiki looksie at this late hour (??) .. & I've found a beauty .. head on over to :: http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Category:Linux
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-30
<dwatkins_> morning all
<sam___> hi
<dwatkins> lo
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Howdy
<TwistedLucidity> gordonjcp shauno: Got the PC audio -> mobile thing working two ways. 1) Rygel & PulseAudio/DLNA; 2) VLC. There a short (2 sec delay) but it works.
<gordonjcp> TwistedLucidity: cool
<x98server-admin> Hi i was wondering if ubuntu was secure, but it is not from a thief as he could go into recovery mode and drop into a root shell
<MartijnVdS> x98server-admin: that won't help the thief if you encrypted the system (you can select that as an option during installation)
<dwatkins> if someone has physical access to your PC, consider it compromised
<MartijnVdS> and that
<MartijnVdS> If Ubuntu didn't have recovery mode, booting the machine from an USB stick would give him full access to all files *anyway* (unless encrypted, again)
<x98server-admin> But is there a way of preventing unfriendly access
<dwatkins> if the disk is encrypted, it's feasible someone with enough [super]computing power at their fingertips could decrypt it, but I don't consider myself "important" enough to warrant that kind of attention.
<dwatkins> x98server-admin: what kind of access, physical or via the network or via the internet?
<MartijnVdS> x98server-admin: Encrypt the machine, lock the BIOS (boot order), and don't let people near it when you can't see it
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: AES256 is feasible now?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: no idea, 1024-bit keys are considered "alien-level encryption" but that doesn't mean they're impossible to break given enough time and power.
<dwatkins> For the curious, see http://distributed.net/ ;)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: every cipher has its own "recommended" key length, and asymmetric encryption tends to need longer keys than symmetric crypto
<x98server-admin> But if my drive is encrypted he/it could still drop into a root shell right?
<MartijnVdS> x98server-admin: not without rebooting (or unless you left it open ;))
<MartijnVdS> x98server-admin: and with a reboot, you need to re-enter the encryption key
<x98server-admin> kk
<MartijnVdS> x98server-admin: there's an attack where they freeze the machine in liquid nitrogen before shutting down (or something) so they can recover the key from desoldered RAM chips.. but you'd notice that.
<dwatkins> so we're talking about someone having physical access to a desktop PC?
<MartijnVdS> also, are you *that* important a target? :)
<dwatkins> or a laptop which is left powered up when stolen, perhaps
<dwatkins> I lock my screen when I walk away from my desk at work, despite trusting my colleagues.
<x98server-admin> Ethier one
<dwatkins> It's not just about someone taking the PC away, they might simply write something using your Facebook account.
<x98server-admin> No
<dwatkins> If your browser stores your login/cookie, and you don't need to enter your password every time etc.
<dwatkins> No to which part, x98server-admin?
<MartijnVdS> x98server-admin: let's take a step back: what do you want to do, and what do you want to prevent? :)
<x98server-admin> About taking valued data
<x98server-admin> Afk
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/auzrtP5.jpg
<TwistedLucidity> Well, encrypting the drives is easy and that implies encrypted swap and tmp as well. Which mean no hibernate unless to "fix" the swap crypt passphrase and that means two passwords to log in (the first, for swap, must be known to all machine users).
<TwistedLucidity> If you want to control just some files, then you need to worry about managing keys/passpharses and I am in no way qualified to talk about that, not having done it beyond something simple like a TrueCrypt volume for personal use.
<MartijnVdS> I have encrypted my /home only, using ecryptfs
<MartijnVdS> just make sure to not store sensitive data *outside* of /home :)
<TwistedLucidity> I store all my sensitive data in the cloud. That's safe, right? :-)
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<TwistedLucidity> I just wish there was some clever way to get around needing to enter the crypt passphrase on boot...if stolen, I *want* someone to be able to boot my laptop.
<popey> ditto
<popey> which is why i only encrypt home
<MartijnVdS> it breaks the nfs exports vagrant uses though
<TwistedLucidity> popey: So you don't encrypt swap?
<nigelb> well, what happens when you change the password?
<popey> i do
<popey> by "only" I meant "I don't encrypt /"
<nigelb> or rather, does changing user password, automatically change ecryptfs password?
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Nor do I, but for hibernate to work you have to be able to decrypt swap - when means having a "pre-boot" password so swap can mount
<popey> i dont hibernate
<TwistedLucidity> By default the password grabbed from dev/random will be lost and swap can no longer be mounted
<popey> ever
<TwistedLucidity> popey: Ah. I see. Thought I was going to learn some cunning trick.
<popey> i dont see the point in hibernate, it takes too long to wake
<TwistedLucidity> Don't notice any real issue with it myself. I mostly set it up to learn, then discovered how "awkward" Linux hibernation is.
<NET||abuse> hi folks,,, i'm in a fun position today, choosing a laptop to buy out of my own money :P for going on as a contractor developer rather than full time.
<NET||abuse> I've seen the new xps15 after having a look through the new linux xps13, but that step up is 450 more :( but so nice... want
<TwistedLucidity> Avoid the Lenovo T540.
<NET||abuse> yet, the M3800 has similar specs i think.
<popey> I like the look of the xps13
<popey> especially the screen, it's a very nice device
<popey> a few friends have bought them
<NET||abuse> and both have touch 3800x1800 screens
<NET||abuse> the xps 13 only has fhd, 1080p :(
<NET||abuse> the m3800 and new xps15 are the big resolution ones, i think they both have the nvidia geforece gtx 564M
<NET||abuse> umm, 565M not 564
<NET||abuse> i dont think that exists.
<NET||abuse> no, the 3800 uses the quadro K1100M,, no idea how that shapes up against the gtx 565M
<TwistedLucidity> Remember to consider support. You will be relying on this laptop, so you will probably want next day on-site repairs.
<NET||abuse> hmm, true
<TwistedLucidity> There's various sites where you can look-up GPU performance. For coding though, a Quadro should be fine.
<NET||abuse> :) I wouldn't mind being able to play a bit of TF2 or Dota on teh QHD+ screen resolutoin though :)
<NET||abuse> but yeh, i just love the idea of having full height half screen editor and two browser windows stacked on theother half of hte screen and have it all right there eon the laptop .. amazing really
<popey> 3800x1080?
<MartijnVdS> x1800
<NET||abuse> yes
<NET||abuse> high resolutoin
<MartijnVdS> "4k"
<NET||abuse> :)
<NET||abuse> i'm on a 1366x900 right now,, amazing how that feels constricted
<popey> heh
<MartijnVdS> yeah, I have that on my own laptop as well
<popey> yeah, me too
<NET||abuse> I was on a 1660x1080 up till a month ago, it was alot better
<MartijnVdS> work laptop is 1080
<MartijnVdS> + a 1920x1200 screen.
<MartijnVdS> At home I have 2560x1080
<MartijnVdS> you get used to that ultra-wide screen as well.. I miss it at work :)
<NET||abuse> yeh, those 27" dell monitors are 2560x1080
<popey> I've yet to outgrow 1080p
<popey> although if I had a higher res screen I surely would â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: I didn't think that much width would be useful, but (surprisingly) it is :)
<popey> heh
<popey> I cant see myself changing my displays anytime soon, my philps 234el's are fine
<popey> I'm not due a work laptop refresh until november
<popey> http://www.engadget.com/2013/12/29/hackers-reverse-engineer-wii-u-gamepad is fascinating to watch
<MartijnVdS> popey: Radio hacking as well: http://media.ccc.de/browse/congress/2013/30C3_-_5588_-_en_-_saal_g_-_201312281600_-_my_journey_into_fm-rds_-_oona_raisanen.html
<xnox> TwistedLucidity: encrypted hybernate works, out of the box on Ubuntu. As long as one doesn't change swap partition UUID. It wakes up, you type a passwords once and it all resumes just fine.
<xnox> popey: MartijnVdS: ^
<popey> nice
<xnox> with home folder only or with full disk encryption.
<TwistedLucidity> xnox: Not for me it didn't; it could never mount the saved swap
<TwistedLucidity> To I had to move the swap to a fixed password to make it work
<xnox> TwistedLucidity: please file a bug report with details and logs on launchpad against ecryptfs-tool and I can look into it.
<TwistedLucidity> xnox: From everything I read, I simply understood that "That's how it is". There's loads of blog posts about the problem.
<xnox> TwistedLucidity: well, duh, one can't use random swap =) the key is destroyed & is unknown before going to sleep.....
<TwistedLucidity> xnox: Exaclty, which is what Ubuntu uses by default
<xnox> TwistedLucidity: it does not =)
<xnox> not, in the full disk encryption case.
<TwistedLucidity> xnox: It does, it's what it did for me when I told it to encrypt home
<xnox> if ramdon swap is used with ecryptfs-home, that needs fixing.
<xnox> TwistedLucidity: can you file a bug against ecryptfstools then and point me to it?
<xnox> i'll get in touch with ecryptfs upstream to discuss this.
<TwistedLucidity> For full disc encryption require the entry of a "pre-boot" password?
<TwistedLucidity> I guess it would
<TwistedLucidity> xnox: Are you 100% sure this should be filed as a bug? Fixing the swap password is part of of the offical Ubuntu docs. https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EnableHibernateWithEncryptedSwap
<x98server-admin> Which needs more resources win 7 or ubuntu 12.04 & should i get 13.10
<x98server-admin> Also what is the alternate for webmin
<gordonjcp> x98server-admin: is this for desktop or serveR?
<x98server-admin> Server
<gordonjcp> x98server-admin: for a server, I'd go for 12.04, for desktop it's 50/50
<gordonjcp> there's no alternate for webmin
<gordonjcp> x98server-admin: instead of using webmin, post the IP address of the server and your username and password on reddit
<gordonjcp> you'll get 0wned *far* quicker
<x98server-admin> Why post my ip ?
<dwatkins> I think gordonjcp is joking, x98server-admin
<gordonjcp> so that people who want to log in as you know what to log into
<gordonjcp> ... and that's what happens when you use webmin
<TwistedLucidity> gordonjcp: LOL
<TwistedLucidity> Surely it only happens if the site is visible on the public t'tinernet?
<gordonjcp> no idea
<gordonjcp> I wouldn't touch webmin with a stolen ten-foot shitty stick, and if I find machines with it installed I just assume they're 0wned
<dwatkins> I assume webmin runs (ran) on a different standard port to a normal apache installation, I hope so.
<dwatkins> Indeed, it was canned for reasons.
<mapps> gonna have to take my pesky old dell laptop apart =[
<mapps> the noise is just too loud to ignore
<diddledan> I don't think webmin is as bad as you give it credit
 * TwistedLucidity offers mapps a hammer
<mapps> :D
<diddledan> hulk smash
<TwistedLucidity> I periodically give the PCs a blast of compressed air and a going over with the vacuum. The filth that comes out of the filters and fans....yowzah.
<diddledan> I need to invest in a can of air
<mapps> ya i usedthat stuff once
<mapps> got it from staples
<TwistedLucidity> Cheap(ish) on Amazon. Other web-based tat vendors are available.
<Myrtti> Stanstead has changed a lot in six months, didn't believe my eyes this morning
<Myrtti> and for typos I blame my tiredness
<popey> Welcome back
<Myrtti> wrong way around :-(
<popey> or.. welcome uh to there
<popey> â¹
<Myrtti> yeah... it's quite gloomy here
<Myrtti> even worse than UK
<Myrtti> it might not have rained as much, atleast the soil isn't totally waterlogged here
<Myrtti> but darkness and no snow isn't good combination
<Myrtti> anywhoo
<popey> when are you back to work?
<Myrtti> I suppose I could start tomorrow to tinker with stuff
<popey> I've been avoiding my work mailbox
<Myrtti> we have a two day all hands in a ski resort on Thursday
<Myrtti> with no snow.
<popey> hah
<Myrtti> I flew in today because my sister has a x5th birthday tomorrow, and thought that she might want me there, but apparently no. Well, I can sit on their Christmas presents few more days more
<Myrtti> could've flewn on the 1st instead had I known
<mapps> wow
<mapps> you're next was good
<daftykins> a film?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> 2013 horror
<DJones> I wish somebody had told me about 'autoawesome' pictures on google earlier, you get some brilliant results
<mapps> autoawesome?
<DJones> mapps: https://support.google.com/plus/answer/3113884?hl=en-GB Basically, if you take 1/2 dozen photo's quickly, it automatically turns them into an animated gif
<DJones> Ended up with a brilliant one of two cousins 4 month old babies lying next to each other but the gif shows them both flinging their arms & legs around
<DJones> mapps: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/112215944099951911045/albums/5961778849013809473/5961778846584980338
<mapps> nice will check in bit..gotta gpo to next
<mapps> before they close
<mapps> need some new jeans for tomorrow ..all my jeans have managed to get holes in the pockets and ahem worse than that the crotch area
<mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1853739/?ref_=fn_al_tt_5
<mapps> says 2011 but didnt get released till 2013 hm
 * penguin42 has the same problem in his trousers pockets - but I won't even guess about how you get the other problems
<mapps> lol
<mapps> must be how i sit
<mapps> i wore them wiith holes in the crotch few times but then it ends up getting worse lol
<mapps> sick of only having 6mbot
<mapps> *6mbit
<mapps> i want faster;/
<penguin42> yeh it's a hard life, either new trousers or faster broadband
<mapps> i cant get faster where i am
<mapps> but it irritates me i had faster 7years ago when i was in portsmouth
<penguin42> yeh I know others in that mess, I moved to cable a few months ago because I couldn't get more than about 7.5 DSL
<mapps> ya i can get cable 5mins down the road but not here
<mapps> in portsmouth had 20mbit cable years and years back when i wasnt on resnet
<mapps> and back at my dads he has like 75mbit FTC from bt and 100mbit from vm
<mapps> and im stuck with no choice at all;/ FTC just says 'coming soon'
<penguin42> you need to find someone 5 mins away who you can pay for a wireless access point
<penguin42> FTTC here they've said our cabinet isn't getting it because there aren't enough people on the cab, even though the exchange has it
<mapps> ah that sucks
<mapps> for me it says 'accepting orders' but that means from isps
<mapps> so its not ready for customers to be setup yet
<popey> foobarry: saw this and thought of you https://plus.google.com/u/0/103092123223427025792/posts/j2nwM3Xpxwp
<mapps> cables decent enough for the price though
<mapps> got a leaflet today too about virgin mobile 15quid/month with unlimited 3g - which seems decent..I pay something like 50/month with ee for unlimited everything - mainly concerned about unlimited 3g:)
<mapps> hm
<mapps> american hustle sounds good from imdb
<BigRedS> does nautilus now not show previews of files intentionally or have I somehow configured it to not?
<DJones> From memory, I thought the file preview facility had been removed a couple of releases ago
<BigRedS> yeah it sounds like the sort of damaging feature that needed purging
<DJones> Looks like it was an upstream decision
<ali1234> what is "preview"?
<ali1234> thumbnails?
<BigRedS> yeah, part of the reason I switched to Ubuntu was to get away from gnome 3's relentless removal of features
<BigRedS> when you click on an image a pane is created on the right showing the image in reduced-but-not-as-small-as-thumbnail size
<DJones> I can see comments saying the change affected Debian & Fedora as well
<BigRedS> it's mostly useful in the Open file dialog when uploading photos
<BigRedS> DJones: yeah - I understood that *some* of this was going to be shielded from me by Canonical :)
<BigRedS> and I hoped this would be
<ali1234> canonical basically don't have the resources to fight against gnome
<BigRedS> yeah, I was afraid of that
<ali1234> plus they've their own brand of crazy
<BigRedS> I'd find the current state of the modern linux desktop amusing if I didn't have to use it...
<ali1234> nobody has to use linux
<ali1234> it's not like there's some killer piece of software you can't get anywhere else
<ali1234> i was looking at fedora the other day. is it right they don't have a multiarch system?
<BigRedS> well, it's sort-of mandated by work
<BigRedS> They were definitely working on multiarch some time ago; I'd assume they had it by now
<ali1234> the most up to date information i can find that meant compiling an ia32-libs style package
<BigRedS> oh right
<ali1234> i kind of want to try a systemd distro, but i need one that actually cares about security
<ali1234> and also has proper multiarch
<ali1234> seems like opensuse is my only option here
<ali1234> but then i have to deal with yast
<foobarry> popey: thanks :) i was planning on making a trip to tottenham aldi as i heard they were selling off kits for Â£2.50 and Â£3.50
<BigRedS> well, at least you've discovered that suse apparently does have a plus-side
<gordonjcp> thought recent Ubuntus were systemd
<gordonjcp> <shrug>
<gordonjcp> and who on earth bothers with multiarch these days
<penguin42> gordonjcp: multiarch is still useful in a lot of corporate messes
<Laney> people who use skype
<ali1234> anyone who uses steam
<penguin42> there are some interesting cases on ARM
<ali1234> ubuntu is just about the only holdout against systemd... debian is still undecided
<penguin42> ali1234: Thing is it seems to work
<ali1234> what does?
<penguin42> systemd
<ali1234> well i haven't tried it but it seems that way
<ali1234> trouble is if i want to try it then i have to go to an RPM distro, or a distro run by kids with no regard for security
<ali1234> neither is an appealing choice
<gordonjcp> I don't get why people are so obsessed with getting Skype working
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh I've used it on Arch (kids), OpenSUSE, Fedora (RPM)
<gordonjcp> #ubuntu is full of them
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Because they need to talk to family
<gordonjcp> penguin42: use a phone?
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Some people don't have them, they don't need to - they've got skype
<penguin42> gordonjcp: And it costs a lot less
<gordonjcp> less than what?
<penguin42> gordonjcp: International phone calls
<ali1234> less than 1p
<gordonjcp> oh, who pays for those?
<ali1234> ie nothing
<gordonjcp> people with crappy phone packages, presumably
<penguin42> gordonjcp: Well there's no good reason they're currently expensive
<ali1234> you know who doesn't pay for them? me
<BigRedS> penguin42: that's not really the same as them being free
<penguin42> BigRedS: Well you're paying your ISP for the data
<BigRedS> I don't pay per-byte
<penguin42> BigRedS: Me neither, but in the end that's where the cost has disappeared to
<penguin42> oh, and the NSA probably paying to make it cheap for stuff to go through things they can monitor
<BigRedS> yeah, so rather than paying extortionate per-minute costs I pay low per-month costs and use what the buys to send voice data across the world
<ali1234> not really, there isn't much difference between an ISP contract and a phone contract, except for the additional per-minute fees on the phone contract
<BigRedS> and I can't walk into a cafe and use the phone for the cost of a double espreso
<penguin42> BigRedS: Although double espressos are somewhat more expensive than most phone calls
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: depends on your provider
<MartijnVdS> (of either)
<BigRedS>  most phone calls don't include a coffee
<BigRedS> I've no idea how much international calls cost any more, I've not made one for years
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: "Hey, you gave me your number last night, want to get some coffee?"
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: Those calls? ;)
<penguin42> BigRedS: Me neither, but the cost of coffee in coffee shops these days....
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: :)
<MartijnVdS> brilliant video from Computerphile: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY
<Laney> is he building up to talking about tzdata?
<MartijnVdS> Laney: maybe :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Yeh one of my other G+ contacts forwarded that to me as well
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: you should also watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlRTcIK1aGo :)
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Time in VMs is even hardware
<MartijnVdS> hardware? :)
<penguin42> harder!
 * penguin42 recalibratesfingers
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: KVM/QEMU/VMWare etc all have to emulate the timers in the guests, and that's tricky
<MartijnVdS> yeah.. and then you have ntpds running in guests who want to tickle the timers as well
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: and then you migrate them to another host with a slightly different clock rate
<MartijnVdS> ooooh :)
<ali1234> what do you call it when someone offers you a gift that turns out not to be a gift? ie someone buy you a lawn mower and then 6 months later starts casually dropping hints that their grass is really long
<ali1234> there is a name for this and i can't remember it
<DJones> Indian giver (I think)
<ali1234> i think your right
<ali1234> that sounds kinda racist
<DJones> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_giver
<DJones> It probably does get heard as racist, I'd never thought of it like that, but now you mention it, I can see why
<brobostigon> digged something great out of my dvds, pink floyd live at pompeii.
<Constaaa> how do i update my video player for chromium ? its being real funny with me.
#ubuntu-uk 2013-12-31
<dwatkins> morning!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> Hi MartijnVdS, good holiday?
<MartijnVdS> working today
<MartijnVdS> going home early though
<bigcalm> But did you get some holiday before today?
<bigcalm> Ah, that's good
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: yeah, from Christmas -> Sunday
<bigcalm> Magic :)
<MartijnVdS> and tomorrow as well
<bigcalm> "complaints to /dev/null" always makes me smile
<bigcalm> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiSn2JuDQSc
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: did you see the video about time yesterday?
<bigcalm> I don't think I did
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY
<bigcalm> I've had to deal with this horribleness
<MartijnVdS> me too. Just use unixtime everywhere and change it when displaying :)
<bigcalm> Sadly not that easy
<MartijnVdS> it's a good start usually
<bigcalm> Yes
<bigcalm> Thanks for showing me that video :)
<MartijnVdS> I like how he becomes angrier and angrier towards the end :)
<dwatkins> haha, fun with timezones - much like my day job
<dwatkins> Mostly I encounter people in the US who don't seem to appreciate that the UK is 8 hours ahead of them, occasionally the opposite.
<MartijnVdS> just do everything on .beats
<dwatkins> everyone should use GMT epoch seconds
<bigcalm> What's the alternative to screen that everybody loves?
<dwatkins> tmux
<MartijnVdS> byobu  + tmux
<MartijnVdS> I can't get used to tmux on its own
<bigcalm> Eh?
<MartijnVdS> byobu is a wrapper around screen/tmux (configurable)
<bigcalm> Ah, okay
<bigcalm> Installing byobu installs tmux
<MartijnVdS> yes that's the default these days
<MartijnVdS> as tmux is actually maintained, while screen is almost dead
<MartijnVdS> also, tmux supports Unicode 6 characters.. screen breaks those long UTF-8 sequences
<MartijnVdS> ð
<bigcalm> To connect to a serial device, I could do something like "screen /dev/ttyUSB0 115200"
<MartijnVdS> yes, that's the only thing I use screen for now :)
<bigcalm> Replacing screen with byobu doesn't work
<dwatkins> I'd switch to tmux on the machine I run my irssi session from, but that would mean closing irssi, which I've done about five times in as many years.
<bigcalm> dwatkins: you don't like applying new kernels then?
<dwatkins> bigcalm: it's not my server - it's an OpenBSD machine run by a friend
<dwatkins> He does update it occasionally.
<bigcalm> Aha, byobu-screen will force the use of screen :)
<bigcalm> Waiting for a delivery. Need the loo. Chances that delivery happens when I'm unavailable? 1:1
<dwatkins> take the doorbell with you
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<Laney> mmm dspam
<daubers> Morning
<mapps> mornijg
<foobarry> is there anything so impatient as an unwell baby?
<dwatkins> a teenager
<Laney> oh yay, it's freenode global notice spam day
<KrimZon> and by yay I presume you mean "**** OFF"
<Laney> no comment
<foobarry> i think i turned off those kind of messages
<DJones> Hmmh, great advert for Currys sales assistants, my 73 year non-technical mum  went into currys to look at tablets and came away realising that she knew more about them than the sales staff
<penguin42> haha
<foobarry> wow
<foobarry> picked up 4 airfix kits from nearby aldi @ Â£3.49 each :D
<foobarry> including paints etc, will be great for indoctrinating nephews into a noble hobby
<popey> yay
<gordonjcp> DJones: heh
<gordonjcp> DJones: don't underestimate non-technical 70-something mums
<gordonjcp> DJones: my mum installed Ubuntu 11.04 on her laptop a couple of years ago
<gordonjcp> she bought it second-hand from a friend of hers, it had XP on it, she hated XP and wanted Ubuntu like on her desktop machine
<gordonjcp> like she frequently says "if you can read, you can cook", so she set about finding out how to make a USB stick and install Ubuntu
<gordonjcp> took about an hour and a half, including the time it took to pop into town for a blank USB stick
<gordonjcp> her broadband is way faster than mine
<foobarry> nice story about original doge http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/31/5248762/doge-meme-rescue-dog-wow
<dwatkins> Myrtti: http://www.theverge.com/2013/12/31/5248762/doge-meme-rescue-dog-wow
<dwatkins> oops
<dwatkins> Myrtti may enjoy this.
<directhex> such article
<dwatkins> very read
<directhex> much words
<popey> I can't really quantify how much I don't care about Doge
<directhex> popey, much disinterest
<dwatkins> very dodge
<foobarry>  popey> I can't really quantify how much I don't care about dogs*
<MartijnVdS> doges?
<foobarry> my dog ate something sharp and had to go to vet on xmas eve  :(
<foobarry> blood everywhere, puke and poo
<MartijnVdS> a spicy curry?
<foobarry> piece of uncooked pasta
<foobarry> or a crisp
<penguin42> you wouldn't have thought a crisp could screw a dog up that badly?
<foobarry> yeah
<foobarry> blood stains are on the stair carpet still
<foobarry> it was everywhere
<directhex> freenode Â¬_Â¬
<MartijnVdS> stahp! freenode!
<DJones> foobarry: Did the crisp/pasta cut the insude of the dogs throat?
<MooDoo> hello all
<popey> Happy new year
<dwatkins> yet again, Ubuntu saves an otherwise disastrous day
<MooDoo> same to you popey :) and everyone else!
<dwatkins> well, sort of - a discussion on Wacom tablets and tablet PCs was useful to me
 * MartijnVdS checks popey's time zone
<dogmatic69> anyone hacked a tivo? looking to replace the 500GB hdd with 3TB / 4TB
<dogmatic69> from what I read its as simple as remove and replace, with option of copying existing data over first
<dogmatic69> was thinking something like dd
<penguin42> I don't know about Tivo, but can it cope with the large drives - probably 4kb sectors?
<directhex> and GPT, if it boots from the drive
<directhex> even if it doesn't boot from it, GPT is needed for drives >2T to be partitionable
<dogmatic69> penguin42: the new ones apparently can use > 2GB
<dogmatic69> seems like there is an out the box bootable mini linux type disk to use that will do it all
<foobarry> DJones: doges stomach
<foobarry> i just purchased my annual train ticket :( Â£1208 i dont want to spend after xmas
<penguin42> ouch
<foobarry> could be Â£800  more but i avoid zone 1 with a bit of extra walking
<popey> woot
<popey> dug out netbook, installed on Jul 13 2011
<ali1234> bug 1265219
<lubotu3> bug 1265219 in libreoffice (Ubuntu) "Unchecked checkboxes remain checked while mouse is over them" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1265219
<MooDoo> sounds like people are having fun
<foobarry> argh got to renew tv olicence  too :(
 * popey consumes some of the kids xmas chocolate
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> Haribo for me :D
<foobarry> wifey got some liquers for me
<popey> *hic*
<foobarry> plus strawberry licorice and some hotel chocolat salted stuff
<foobarry> starting to think shaun the sheep is actually one of my favourite tv programmes
<popey> TIMMY TIME!
<MooDoo> lol it's great
<foobarry> how does timmy time compare?
<MooDoo> foobarry: you need to watch all of this to understand ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iu0HpvGXOmY
<sebsebseb> hi
<popey> hello
<MooDoo> hi sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> popey: MooDoo hi
<MooDoo> out later celebrating sebsebseb ?
<sebsebseb> MooDoo: are you?
<MooDoo> sebsebseb: nah one day of the year i'm not really all that bothered about
<sebsebseb> MooDoo: yeah indeed
<sebsebseb> MooDoo:   I don't care that much about it either
<sebsebseb> ,but
<sebsebseb> MooDoo: there's a podacst going on again
<sebsebseb> :D
<sebsebseb> 26 hours new years one
<sebsebseb> MooDoo: you don't like new years how come?
<MooDoo> sebsebseb: just another day...
<sebsebseb> yeah unless doing something for it
<SuperEngineer> that darn steam sale had better finish early... can't keep increasing the partition size forever y'know?!  ;)
<SuperEngineer> #partition_size != #wallet_size
<MooDoo> lol
<mapps> yo
<SuperEngineer> yo y'all
<mapps> you get some right clowns at the casino:D i was at Genting casino last night and some african guys drunk teling me how he's a big time football agent and has loadsa $$$ then says he's going to Matalan to buy a suit
<mapps> lol
<mapps> because that's where all the rich loaded people would buy a suit
<SuperEngineer> mapps - but that *is* where they go... ask Mssrs Matalan if you don't believe me ;)
<mapps> Mssrs?:)
<mapps> and course it isnt
<mapps> i have a suit that cost me 500 quid and im not a millionaire
<mapps> this guy was trying to claim he was absolutely loded..football agent rtollng in cash
<SuperEngineer> ...but Â£500 from now you will be,,,
<SuperEngineer> [& if you're allowed "rtolling" - I'm allowed "Mssrs"
<mapps> heh
<SuperEngineer> mapps: meh
<ali1234> you don't get rich by giving away money you know
<mapps> agreed
<ali1234> the thing about really expensive luxury items is rich people don't buy them, they get them for free
<mapps> yea
<SuperEngineer> ...& then they go to gaol
<mapps> some of the temperatures these folks around the world get are crazy
<penguin42> in which direction?
<mapps> well
<mapps> like 37c is real hot..too hot for me i think
<mapps> but then -15 is like lol obviously crazy cold
<penguin42> yeh
<mapps> Oregon and Argentina there
<mapps> i cant even imagine how cold -15 is
<mapps> people here all moan when its like 1/2c
<mapps> 'coldest day ever boo hoo'
<penguin42> yeh, this penguin wouldn't like it that cold
<SuperEngineer> why not ask those stuck in that research ship trapped in antartica
<SuperEngineer> ..or those in USA currently in turmoil from exrtaordinarty arctic winds
<SuperEngineer> ..me - I'm asking friend in Oz - makes life seem much better ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-01
<mapps> happy new year folks:)
<penguin42> Happy new year all
<moreati> Happy new Sherlock day
<penguin42> oh is it? When?
<mapps> the BBC series?
<mapps> ive still not seen s1/2 heard it's really good though?
<mapps> hm
<moreati> 8pm BBC 1 IIRC
<popey> \o/
<moreati> correction 9pm http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b018ttws
<moreati> old series all on iplayer at the moment
<penguin42> hmm might watch that, the end of the last series didn't do much for me; I liked the start of it
<mapps> so i need to watch s1/2
<mapps> how good is it compared to say the wire:)
<moreati> dunno, better start soon, it's about 10 hours to catch up on
<moreati> (I mean it's uncommonly good, but I've not seen the wire)
<mapps> ah
<mapps> most british tv 's garbage imo
<shauno_> this will sound nuts, but I find -15 surprisingly tollerable.  as long as the wind is out of the picture, the only real difference from -5 to -20 is that the snow starts to feel like polystyrene
<MooDoo> *yawn*
<popey> Mng
<MartijnVdS> \o
<mapps> yo
<foobarry> playing gruffalo snakes and ladders.
<zameltout> salam
<brobostigon> good morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> good morning MartijnVdS
<foobarry> http://www.n3rdabl3.co.uk/2014/01/4-6-million-snapchat-usernames-phone-numbers-leaked-one/
<stgraber>  /win 41
<dvrr> wish you happy new year 2014 to all
<SuperEngineer> ow ow ow!  freeze burn, freeze burn!
<SuperEngineer> ...that's the air dusting done ;)
 * SuperEngineer makes mental note - "next time - wear a glove!"
<dvrr> MooDoo
<dvrr> Unknown character set index for field '25940' received from server.      Communications link failure due to underlying exception:   mysql  ubuntu  i faced  this problem  fast 24 hours (production server ) please help me
<SuperEngineer> Psensor, however, tells me the air dusting was worth it - me happy [& will be even more so when my hand forgives me]
<SuperEngineer> now time for the memory check
<popey> discovered this yesterday but can't remember where http://paste.ubuntu.com/6673258/
<popey> "Poor Mans Spotify" - you run it, type in an artist name and it lets you stream or download MP3s from Pleer
<popey> works rather well.
<popey> czajkowski: https://pug-o-matic.me/
<czajkowski> popey: awwwwww
<daftykins> happy NY all!
<penguin42> HNY daftykins
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> hopefully not ending in '13' will be an improvement :>
<MooDoo_> SuperMat1: hu
<marxjohnson> evening all
<marxjohnson> Does anyone here have any experience of connecting an Ubuntu machine to a TV with audio and video going though an HDMI port on a PCI-E graphics card? Does it "just work", or are there gotchas?
<xnox> marxjohnson: depends on the graphics card, and its drivers.... video "just works" all the time, audio sometimes doesn't.
<marxjohnson> Does anyone here have any experience of connecting an Ubuntu machine to a TV with audio and video going though an HDMI port on a PCI-E graphics card? Does it "just work", or are there gotchas?
<marxjohnson> hmm dont know how I managed to send that message again.
<marxjohnson> xnox: thanks. Do you have any experience of what works and what doesn't
<marxjohnson> ?
<xnox> marxjohnson: not really no, i only work with limited hardware.
<marxjohnson> ok no worries, thanks
<daftykins> oh wow
<daftykins> i had no idea but my ISP has upgraded the VDSL2 service i'm on from 40/2 -> 40/5 \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-02
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: ping
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> going to pm you ok?
<SuperMatt> ok
<MooDoo> SuperMatt: ps morning :D
<SuperMatt> morning -.-
<SuperMatt> I think I might be too ill for work today
<SuperMatt> but I think I should show up, at least to make it known how ill I am and I'm not just skipping work until I start my new job >.<
<MooDoo> then get sent home, the best way imo
<SuperMatt> yarr
<foobarry> theres been a weird illness going round
<foobarry> stomach pains, feeling nauseous for few days
<MooDoo> foobarry: father in law has that now, and my daughter had it last week :(
<foobarry> i had ut too
<foobarry> any other symptoms?
<arsen> hihi - Happy New Year all :)
<MooDoo> not that I can think of, the odd chest pain, but that could just be the father in law, daughter didn't seem to have that.
<foobarry> my baby has bad cold too :(
<MooDoo> booo
<MartijnVdS> \o
<MooDoo> hello MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> Happy new year everyone :)
<MooDoo> You too!
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning diplo
<diplo> I had that stomach bug as well, just read up
<diplo> I had it for 3-4 weeks, felt like I was having a heat attack at one point
<diplo> I believe it was indigestion from whatever I had.. others had it for a week or so but I've been quite ill for some time so probably not the best person to gauge it on
<dwatkins> morning folks
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> oh what a world
<dwatkins> are you melting, SuperMatt?
<SuperMatt> I might as well be
<dwatkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aopdD9Cu-So
<SuperMatt> I'm assuming that's a video of the wicked witch melting?
<dwatkins> yeah, in case anyone didn't get my reference or yours
<andylockran> morning all
<czajkowski> aloha
<bashrc> hi
<JamesTait> Good morning all, Happy New Year! :-D
<popey> Morning.
<bashrc> Happy new 2014
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<bashrc> it's the future already
<MartijnVdS> ð
<MartijnVdS> (U+1F389)
<bashrc> is that a bat signal?
<JamesTait> I thought whatever font I'm using in my terminal had just about every Unicode symbol going, but that one confused it. :-P
<SuperMatt> I'm using the ubuntu font in my terminal
<SuperMatt> mostly because it's actually a good monospace font
<SuperMatt> 0Oo1IlL <- if any of this is confusing, I feel bad for you son. I got 99 problems but my typeface ain't one
<JamesTait> I suspect I am too.
<SuperMatt> interesting, in ubuntu mono the uppercase l is larger than lowercase
<SuperMatt> wait, that's wrong
<popey> yes
<SuperMatt> the lowercase l is larger than the upper case
<JamesTait> So it is!
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: Do you use screen or tmux? Because screen gets confused by newer (higher) characters
<SuperMatt> I wonder what the decision was behind that
<MartijnVdS> behind breaking UTF-8 in Screen?
<MartijnVdS> To get people to move to tmux of course ;)
<JamesTait> MartijnVdS, I use irssi through screen, so that might be it.
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: I use byobu + tmux, which does support those characters
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: it's http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f389/index.htm basically ;)
<MartijnVdS> (the bug is http://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?38944)
<SuperMatt> I just want to know who comes up with these things
<SuperMatt> any why, specifically, we need them
<JamesTait> Party popper!
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: the emojis etc.? So they can map *every* symbol set that existed before to unicode
<SuperMatt> right right, but surely there's a huge number of pictogarms? do we really need a party popper?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: they existed before as a standard set, in Japanese phones
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: https://sites.google.com/site/unicodesymbols/Home/emoji-symbols/proposal-text
<JamesTait> Those crazy Japanese! :-P
<SuperMatt> oh, I see
<SuperMatt> when you put it like that, it all makes sense
<SuperMatt> to some extent
<foobarry> i wonder how they decide prices for goods in oxfam. many are  above RRP
<SuperMatt> oh really?
<foobarry> i wonde if they due a cursory ebay of an item and pick an arbirtrary price
<foobarry> they have an online shop
<foobarry> other non-chain charity shops price things low to shift stock, but oxfam seem to think they can demand near RRP for 2nd hand items
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: well, if the rest goes to charity..
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: they don't shift the stock though if they are selling H&M /primark clothes at higher price than the brand new stuff
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: and to compensate, they increase prices even more ;)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: also, their management probably needs a new gold toilet or something?
<foobarry> i think the shop staff are volunteers, unsure if any are paid
<MartijnVdS> (isn't that how most charities operate these days?)
<MooDoo> I think the shop managers are paid, but everyone else aren't
<foobarry> In the financial year 2012/13, Oxfam's chief executive was paid Â£119,560
<MartijnVdS> which is more than I'm paid as a coder
<MartijnVdS> and it feels a bit wrong, as they're a *charity*.
<SuperMatt> sure, but that a lot less than many ceos
<SuperMatt> I imagine it's not a low stress job
<foobarry> echoes my sentiment: http://www.weeklygripe.co.uk/a761.asp
<SuperMatt> so that actually seems quite fair to me
<SuperMatt> anything much higher than that though, and I would question it
<foobarry> if they paid too low then they will struggle to get a decent CEO
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: we've had a few of those in the news in .nl
<SuperMatt> foobarry: indeed
<SuperMatt> I imagine that the ceo has a good social conscience not to want much more, but also be aware of what the going rate is for ceos, and thus has struck a good balance
<popey> they're charging those prices for goods in charity shops because supply+demand
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<foobarry> i can't see them shifting badly priced clothes
<foobarry> they must get re-sent to diffrent branches where they are more reasonably priced
<foobarry> hence why independent ones price them correctly in the first place, because its up to themselves to shift stock
<foobarry> ah, they say there is no general policy on price, so experiences with different brancheds may vary
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o davmor2
<davmor2> Happy New Year!
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo, MartijnVdS: nice break?
<MartijnVdS> Nah, back at work already :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah it was thanks, but I'm with MartijnVdS back at work already
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: but the christmas -> new year break was good :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<popey> \o/ I started making a silly game yesterday. Anyone fancy testing it? â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: sure, which platform?
<popey> windows / linux / osx
<popey> http://popey.com/asteroids/downloads/
<popey> it's only just started, made the player movement and networking code
<popey> want to see if it works outside my house â»
<MartijnVdS> popey: ah it's not Ubuntu Phone-only ;)
<popey> no â»
<popey> doesn't work on ubuntu phone (yet)
<ali1234> is it unity?
<MooDoo> popey: works on windows machine at work
<ali1234> is that a silly question?
<popey> yes ali1234
<MartijnVdS> ./asteroids.x86: error while loading shared libraries: libGLU.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
<popey> ooh
<MartijnVdS> but that might be me not having i386 libs
 * popey uploads 64-bit version
 * brobostigon probably will be spending more time making things for his pebble now. he suspects.
<popey> MooDoo: can you join the server? or indeed see any server?
<bigcalm> popey: works for me on 13.10 64bit
<bigcalm> popey: not sure how I exit though
<popey> yeah, i need a quit button â»
<MooDoo> popey: can see jupieroids, but can't join it button does't do anything
<bigcalm> popey: also, flew off the screen and can't find the craft again
<MooDoo> popey: then again it could be work network, i'll try it at hom
<popey> ah, you on a proxy?
<popey> bigcalm: yeah, known bug â»
<MooDoo> yeah.
<popey> ah, okay
<popey> will look at adding proxy support
<popey> ta
<ali1234> i can't see any servers. no proxy
<ali1234> i started a server and then flew off the screen
<popey> heh â»
<popey> how does the craft physics feel?
<bigcalm> Same here
<popey> (other than going off screen)
<popey> sluggish / fast ?
<bigcalm> Aha, refreshed the list and now I see Jupiteroids
<ali1234> impossible to tell, i flew off the screen within 0.5 seconds
<popey> I'll put a boundary around it for now
<ali1234> the graphic is a bit blurry
<popey> bigcalm: can you join?
<bigcalm> popey: Clicking on Jupiteroids does nothing when I click on it
<popey> yeah, its a scaled up rip off from ZX Spectrum Thrust â»
<popey> bigcalm: excellent
<dwatkins> Thrust was an excellent fame.
<ali1234> either make the edges wrap or just reflect the craft velocity vector if it goes beyond the edge and is also travelling away from the center of the screen
<popey> just the kind of result I was hoping for
<dwatkins> also, game
<bigcalm> The physics are similar to what I would expect from such a game
<popey> ali1234: yeah, agreed
<popey> seems nobody managed to successfully join the server
<popey> wonder if that's because I'm behind NAT
<popey> (where the server is)
<dwatkins> what port does it use?
<popey> 25000
<popey> MartijnVdS: 64-bit builds uploaded ã
<popey> (although I expect you may have the same issues everyone else has) â»
<ali1234> 32 bit works on 64 bit
<popey> yeah, if you have the 32-bit GL stuff installed I guess
<popey> (which you will if you have steam on linux installed I imagine)
<ali1234> yeah
<popey> want to test this on android too
<popey> need to install the android sdk
<ali1234> write some more of the game first, you'll get more testers :)
<popey> yeah â»
<popey> thanks chaps
<MartijnVdS> popey: physics feel good :)
<bigcalm> Ooo, the 64bit version gives me a screen res options
<ali1234> i never got that
<MartijnVdS> also "windows mode" or not
<MartijnVdS> windowed
<popey> but without the networking stuff working it's going to never work, so I wanted to test that outside my home network first
<popey> heh, #blameunity
<ali1234> make a dedicated server?
<ali1234> or set up port forwarding
<popey> yeah, I'll make a headless build which spawns a server
<bigcalm> Yep, the 64bit version works like the 32bit version for me. But with the addition of an options screen
<popey> odd that one build has the resolution option but the other doesn't
<MooDoo> get it flying over the uuk minecraft map ;)
<popey> hah
<popey> also need a better ship graphic
<popey> "also" as in "as well as actually writing the rest of the game" â»
<ali1234> did you ever do christmas tetris?
<popey> no.. what's that?
<bigcalm> Amusing that trying the 32bit version again now uses the settings I applied in the 64bit version. But still no option screen
<ali1234> you were going to write a christmas themed game in scratch
<popey> oh, yes, I started
<popey> sorry, forgot scratch for a moment there â»
<popey> need to look at that again before the next codeclub class, thanks for reminding me!
<ali1234> the hard part about writing games is finishing one before you start the next one
<popey> true!
<MooDoo> my problem is I get easily dis...ooo look a frog! ;)
<diddledan> MooDoo: me too
<ali1234> and i just had an idea for a funny game
<gordonjcp> ali1234: likewise music
<bashrc> you could call it "coder focus"
<gordonjcp> which is why I have a couple of backup drives of half-finished audio, and several boxes of floppies of half-finished sequences
<gordonjcp> "oh this sounds good, doesn't fit this track, let me just create a new one and get it down quick"
<davmor2> MooDoo: you don't need a frog, a shiny will cover it
<popey> there's "one game a month" which makes this worse â»
<popey> http://www.onegameamonth.com/
<MooDoo> davmor2: me no likey shiney!
<gordonjcp> I am going to limit myself to three *finished* tracks before the end of March, then up the pace a bit and get some of the rest done
<davmor2> MooDoo: look at the shiny camera lens
<MooDoo> davmor2: no can do at moment, got exams to concentrate on
<foobarry> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1046165765/egg-the-intelligent-cat-companion?ref=discovery
<ali1234> so do the unity tools work on linux yet?
<foobarry> every 3d pribter on kickstarter gets fully funded v quickly
<popey> ali1234: no
<popey> ali1234: i got them working briefly in WINE but it was sub-optimal
<popey> bit crashy
<popey> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Introducing-Unity-for-Arch-Arch-Linux-with-Unity-360250.shtml
<popey> hehe
<foobarry> never seen arch in the wild
<popey> I get told about it a lot from other linux users
<foobarry> it remains the mythical distro of the blog commenter
<popey> hah
<davmor2> I hate holidays the inbox after one is catastrophic
<MooDoo> davmor2: thats why i'm always logging into work email during hols :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: I try not to touch a computer while I'm off or I get sucked  in and I'm back to working again :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: I should know better
<bashrc> I never log into work anything during hols
<dwatkins> davmor2: are you ircing from a phone?
<davmor2> dwatkins: no back at work today
<dwatkins> ahh, same here
<bashrc> happy back at work day!
<MooDoo> i should have booked these two days off lol
<dwatkins> no rest for the wicked, nor support staff like me ;)
<davmor2> MooDoo: no it's time for your email client to recover ready to start work on Monday ;)
<MooDoo> dwatkins: same here...pah to support lol
<dwatkins> thankfully it's quiet
<MooDoo> here too
<MooDoo> dwatkins: give me time to study :)
<SuperMatt> work leaving drinks booked \o/
<dwatkins> MooDoo: yeah, plenty of things to learn for me too
<MooDoo> dwatkins: windows for me though lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you see the lightbox for camera phones on one of the crowdfunding sites?
<MooDoo> davmor2: I think you mentioned it, but not 100%
<dwatkins> this? http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/limemouse/scanbox-turn-your-smartphone-into-a-portable-scann
<MooDoo> nice
<davmor2> dwatkins: no just trying to find it
<andylockran> Happy New Year!
<popey> indeed
<andylockran> just getting back into the swing
<dwatkins> http://img.outdoortoysworld.co.uk/images/products/Hedstrom%20Single%20Swing_A_SS-1.jpg andylockran ;)
<selinuxium> Hi All and a Happy New Year... :)
<MartijnVdS> selinuxium: and the same to you!
<diddledan> "up with the british aristocracy"
<diddledan> "and up yours"
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> something like that anywho
<diddledan> I forget the actual quote
<diddledan> so. it's 2014. doesn't feel any different.
<davmor2> diddledan: it has a 4 instead of a 3 so it's very different :P
<diddledan> I can't feel it yet
<diddledan> maybe it takes a while to soak-in>?
<davmor2> diddledan: no you just need to write it a few times :)
<foobarry> heh after all that oxfam chat this morning i was looking for a certain book and found that oxfam were selling it at a decent price via amazon marketplace
<Mez> Does anyone in here have experience setting up ubuntu with >2 monitors (across multiple gfx cards)
<SuperMatt> I've never managed to get it to work :/
<bashrc> sadly I don't.  I'm an old-fashioned one monitor bloke
<SuperMatt> I've got two monitors on one nvidia card
<Mez> My old box ran 4 monitors fine (raring + NVS Quatro).  Can't even get the machine to detect the monitors with that card on my new machine.
<Mez> Can get GFX up to 3 monitors, though the third has major tearing issues)
<Mez> so, trying to work out my simplest way to get 4 running
<popey> Mez: bigcalm does
<popey> Mez: also, Azelphur
<diddledan> I run multiple monitors on an AMD 6870 card, but that's using the binary drivers and AMD's eyefinity thing
<bigcalm> I run 3 22" monitors off one nvidia graphics card (2 x dvi and 1 x hdmi). My 4th monitor is connected to a windows server
<bigcalm> I used to run more monitors, but that was over 2 graphics cards. So I've never had more than 3 monitors connected to one graphics card
<SuperMatt> I really don't need more than two monitors
<SuperMatt> at least, not for the kind of things I do
<SuperMatt> I can understand some people needing more though
<MartijnVdS> you might have to use a xorg.conf in those cases
<MartijnVdS> ?
<directhex> so
<directhex> Mez, you can't get more than 3 monitors hooked up to any current consumer-grade graphics card, unless the monitors are displayport-based and you use a displayport out on the graphics card
<MartijnVdS> chaining \o/
<directhex> the gpu needs to synchronize the rate at which it sends data to the monitor, and most cards only have 3 independent clocks for synchronizing against.
<directhex> displayport doesn't require synchronization as the timing information is bundled with the display data
<directhex> so you aren't limited by pixel clocks
<DJones> Heh, and on the multiple monitors topic, there's somebody in #u talking about having 6 monitors connected to 2 graphics cards... That must be a hell of a lot of screen space
<SuperMatt> I'm just not sure why anyone really needs that many
<directhex> porn.
<directhex> all the porn.
<SuperMatt> literally
<diddledan> I want a massive "screen"
<SuperMatt> though watching 6 movies simultaniously doesn't seem neccessary
<MooDoo> driving sim with 3 monitors is awesome, then 2 smaller ones as wing mirrors, i've seen it, it's ace
<DJones> 1) IRC, 2) Facebook, 3) Email, 4) Cat pictures, 5) G+, 6) Web browsing, 7) Work... Oh bugger, can't do any work, only got 6 screens :)
<MooDoo> lol
<diddledan> I need at least 2 screens for work
 * SuperMatt too
<SuperMatt> I tend to have about 4 or 5 terminal windows open at any time
<diddledan> one with the code and one with the test site
<SuperMatt> on one screen, and on the other, browser and email
<diddledan> yeah I'd like three so I have another for terminals
<SuperMatt> at my new job I believe I'll only have two
<diddledan> and for web coding I tend to have the inspector open so I would really like that on yet another
<foobarry> https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.amphoras.hidemyroot&hl=en looked promising for 4od but doesnt appear to do the trick for CM
<diddledan> foobarry: "On some roms (usually rooted stock roms), Hide my Root will allow you to use Google Videos and similar apps on a rooted phone. On custom roms such as CyanogenMod, it will not allow you to use Google Videos and similar apps on a rooted phone."
<diddledan> note the second sentence
<foobarry> yeah, sucks.
<SuperMatt> hmm yeah, 3 screens for webdev does sound pretty optimal
<foobarry> must be doable
<diddledan> SuperMatt: then there's needing IRC open on another screen :-p
<SuperMatt> IRC just gets lost in all my other terminal windows
<diddledan> I use a GUI to IRC
<SuperMatt> irssi ftw
<diddledan> I like the at-a-glance ability of gui - colour-coded joined channel list indicating new messages and new highlighted messages for e.g.
<MooDoo> i use irssi too on my vps
<SuperMatt> I'm gonna have to migrate my session in a couple of weeks
<diddledan> I expect irssi can do it with some fancy screen/byobu integration though
<SuperMatt> when I get my hands on cheaper vpses through work :P
<MooDoo> :p
<diddledan> cheap vpsen? shut up and take my money!
<diddledan> :-p
<SuperMatt> diddledan: I'll be working for rackspace, so it'll be an employee only benefit
<diddledan> fooey
<diddledan> you'll be able to play with some fancy stuffs though
<SuperMatt> I know!
<SuperMatt> that's why I'm so excited about going
<diddledan> :-D
<SuperMatt> I'm not excited about transferring all the stuff on my current server over though
<SuperMatt> no doubt I'll foget a package or two and my email won't work at all
<daftykins> SuperMatt: all part of the fun! :D
<SuperMatt> sure thing :)
<SuperMatt> I'll just migrate it all and use local host modifications to test
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: time to use chef ;)
<SuperMatt> nah, it's not like I change my server often
<SuperMatt> I was just gonna do dpkg --getselections, or whatevers
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: still.. having a recipe = useful :)
<SuperMatt> I just ran get-selections and it sure as hell missed out a lot of my packages
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: there's a better way that takes care of apt as well
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: http://askubuntu.com/questions/101931/restoring-all-data-and-dependencies-from-dpkg-set-selections
<SuperMatt> aha, putting in the '*' made the difference
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: you want apt-mark
<SuperMatt> I know I'll figure it out in a couple of weeks
<SuperMatt> I might actually manually look through the list of packages and remove the ones I know I won't need
<SuperMatt> because I've installed some crud in my time
<bashrc> havn't we all
<diddledan> autoremove ftw
<diddledan> :-p
<SuperMatt> aha, good news that nginx will be coming to main in 14.04
<bigcalm> Replacing Apache2?
<SuperMatt> no no
<SuperMatt> just being along side
<SuperMatt> which means it get support for the entire lifetime of the lts
<bigcalm> Ah, good
<SuperMatt> I thought it was about time nginx got as much love as apache
<popey> yeah, good news
<SuperMatt> I've been using nginx quite a lot recently for load balancing and ssl termination
<gordonjcp> nginx ftw
<SuperMatt> but I still wouldn't use it for php heavy sites
<popey> \o/ it's unity-coding-o'clock
<DJones> Somebody please give me an injection of sanity, watching a tv programme which had a heatseeking image of suspects & captors with a cross hair on them & I was moving my mouse expecting the crosshair to move....Doh!!!!!
<davmor2> popey: you have to add the 3d bit other wise it sound like you are at work still :D
<popey> heheh
<popey> they dont call it unity3d anymore
<popey> it's just called Unity, because they have a 3d and 2d engine
<davmor2> popey: that's not gonna be confusing at all :D
<ali1234> how does git automatically put output into a pager, and why don't more applications do this?
<davmor2> ali1234: magic
<ali1234> i am totally convinced this is the reason git is the most popular DVCS
<ali1234> every time i type "bzr log" and forget to append " | less" it makes me curse bzr developers
<Laney> yeah, that broke me
<Laney> so i found the bzr-pager plugin
<czajkowski> Laney: 4 weeks to FOSDEM!
<Laney> ^_^
<Laney> i'm scared
<Laney> you'll have to show me the ropes
<czajkowski> find a bar - sorted
<czajkowski> at the event download the app before you go there
<Laney> surely you have to find THE bar
<czajkowski> and sub to the talks you want to go
<czajkowski> sorted :)
<czajkowski> Laney: narp it's delerium
<czajkowski> done
<Laney> o ok
<Laney> we're at a hotel in the city centre
<Laney> hope it's not too hard to get there
<directhex> can't afford fosdem
<directhex> blew hundreds on mono hackfest in vienna
<Laney> huh
<Laney> i assumed sponsorship happened
<czajkowski> Laney: which hotel
<Laney> cannae remember
<Laney> it's near some famous square
 * Laney is so cultured
<czajkowski> Laney: have you been on the sauce again
<directhex> Laney, my employer sponsored the event, but didn't fund me directly. different pots of money. gnome foundation seems to have decided not to even bother acknowledging my reimbursement paperwork
<Laney> huh
<Laney> you should prod people directly
<Laney> czajkowski: anyway, we have didrocks and desrt who are seasoned fosdemmers staying in the same place
<Laney> so i'm sure i'll be well chaperoned :P
<czajkowski> Laney: \o/
<czajkowski> I shall be in the NoSQL room mostly
<Laney> you trendy thing
<czajkowski> Laney: hey you're the hipster!
<Laney> Â¬_Â¬
<Laney> london scares me and you can't be a hipster if you don't like london
<Laney> QED
<czajkowski> lol
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> cities scare me
<Laney> I'd have to learn to drive to not live in one :(
<arc__> Hello
<daftykins> hi
<arc__> I have booted lubuntu 13.04/.10 up and my screen is flashing
<arc__> Booted from usb
<arc__> Any help ;)
<daftykins> flashing 0o
<daftykins> as in it's showing the desktop fine - but it blinks?
<arc__> No desktop just cusor
<popey> http://popey.com/asteroids/downloads/ \o/ 8 people connected to my server now
<popey> fixed things bigcalm and ali1234 mentioned earlier
<popey> still need to add bullets and some other gamey features
<daftykins> hrmm not sure if nomodeset is appropriate
<arc__> 12.04 works like a charm
<arc__> I booted it normaly from my usb [live cd/usb boot ]
<arc__> but started to flicker when the cursor came on no backgroud or desktop just a cursor
<arc__> Any ideas
<arc__> I had the same problem when doing the same thing with ubuntu 13.04/.10
<daftykins> you can look into the kernel boot parameter "nomodeset" but i don't know if it's applicable in your situation
<arc__> Lol thanks for the help i tried googling it but no luck [i am a crap google searcher]
<daftykins> hrmm i wonder if...
<daftykins> !nomodeset
<lubotu3> A common kernel (boot)parameter is nomodeset, which is needed for some graphic cards that otherwise boot into a black screen or show corrupted splash screen. See http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1613132 on how to use this parameter
<daftykins> huzzah ^
<arc__> Kk thank u will try that tommorow
<daftykins> no problem
<daftykins> i'd ask more but i'm headed to bed now
<arc__> Yea me too lol
<gordonjcp> can anyone talk me through pairing a GPS in 13.10?  I'm obviously missing something fundamental in the Bluetooth control panel, because it always gives me a random PIN
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-03
<MooDoo> morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o MooDoo
<MartijnVdS> you're up early today :)
 * MartijnVdS hasn't even put the kettle on yet 8-)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: start work at 7
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: 8 here :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: my choice though...I must be mad :S
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: do you work from home?
 * MartijnVdS has a 1 hour commute (best case, no delays etc)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: no about 30 mins from where I live.
<MartijnVdS> that makes it a bit easier to start at 7 ;)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yeah, especially seeing as my sister drives me into work :D
<MartijnVdS> :)
<MartijnVdS> so you get 30 minutes of sleep extra?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: nah always up at 5:30
<MartijnVdS> wow
<MartijnVdS> though also, you get to go home early, right?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: yeah 3:30 finish
<MooDoo> ubuntu spotted - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25584644
<MooDoo> looks like they are using terminator too
<MartijnVdS> no better way to h4x0r banks :)
<foobarry> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/952953995/bluetooth-zx-spectrum-recreating-the-sinclair-zx-s seen this?
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bashrc> g'day
<MooDoo> morning
<SuperMatt> morning
<MooDoo> how are you SuperMatt feeling better?
<SuperMatt> a wee bit
<SuperMatt> I think I have nandos to thank for that
<MartijnVdS> for the feeling better, or the feeling bad?
<SuperMatt> feeling better
<SuperMatt> cleared my sinuses
<foobarry> wee bit? urine infection?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it's like a fitbit, but to measure "liquid flow" ;)
<SuperMatt> I...
<SuperMatt> what?
<SuperMatt> no urine infections
<MartijnVdS> yeah, keep that away from your sinuses ;)
<SuperMatt> what is wrong with you people?
<MartijnVdS> <- Dutch
<bigcalm> Hehe
<andylockran> Howdy folks
<popey> Morning
<MooDoo> mornign
<brobostigon> morning everyone,
<foobarry> hey blue skies!
<SuperMatt> LIES!
<foobarry> was grim first thing
<bigcalm> Same here. Amazed to see sunshine
<foobarry> can't see the sun from my dungeon office, but can see sky through the crack
<bashrc> it won't last long
<popey> bigcalm: I added "Escape to quit" from asteroids, and made the ships loop around
<popey> oh and added a starfield background
<popey> need to add more game features later
<MartijnVdS> popey: are there ship collisions?
<popey> they bump but no damage yet
<bigcalm> popey: nice one
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 :D  how are you?
<davmor2> MooDoo: good thanks you?
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah ok thanks :D
<foobarry> found some roses chocs i put in the pocket of my hoodie yay
<MooDoo> foobarry: nice n melty?
<foobarry> not bad
<foobarry> just received 4 steam account activation codes..
<MartijnVdS> ?
<bigcalm> Rather delayed email
<foobarry> somebody else thinks they have my username
 * dwatkins notes that yet another american has written a telephone number like it's US internal, when actually it's a Danish mobile number
<dwatkins> the plus symbol seems to elude many people
<foobarry> skyrim for 3.74, wow
<dwatkins> ...or just confuse them
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "not America" confuses americans
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: indeed
<foobarry> shame i don't play pc games
<dwatkins> I'm sure some people think England is located somewhere on the east coast near Newfoundland
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: near New England
<dwatkins> indeed, MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> just like York is a mere stone's throw from New York...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: s/York/Amsterdam/g
<dwatkins> haha
<foobarry> amsterdam is named after a giant wall of hamsters
<foobarry> #truefacts
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: nah, we pronounce our 'H'
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it's the Americans who don't ("erbs"? really?)
<foobarry> bit like first day of minecraft? http://store.steampowered.com/app/252490
<dwatkins> foobarry: I know you're kidding, but you might find this map of literal names interesting... http://i.imgur.com/ZDPOsoH.jpg
<dwatkins> Apparently, I live in Slopecastle.
<MartijnVdS> I like how Dublin is also Blackpool 8-)
<foobarry> dwatkins: would be good topic for a tea towel.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: is 'eng' the Dutch word for 'angled' or is it something like 'narrow'?
<dwatkins> I like your thinking, foobarry ... *checks zazzle*
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: It's an old word for "narrow" (or a common word for "scary")
<dwatkins> You can get pillows printed, but not teatowels, sadly.
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: so the translations are wrong, maybe... the region should be called "The narrow country"
<foobarry> where did you find the pic?
<dwatkins> "Channel of the narrow country"
<dwatkins> foobarry: http://www.reddit.com/r/mapporn#page=2
<dwatkins> source: http://www.kalimedia.com/Atlas_of_True_Names.html
<dwatkins> sadly they don't sell a poster version for the complete map of Europe
<foobarry> http://www.thisisjersey.com/news/2013/09/28/oap-smashes-up-roulette-machines/
<popey> Rust looks pretty
<foobarry> popey: yeah
<foobarry> except everyone is naked
<foobarry> until you kill something, so not that pretty...cavemen..
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: well, until you build a fort and steal clothes.. or something
<foobarry> "place of wocca's people". wonder what town that is
<foobarry> north of guildford
<dwatkins> Wokingham
<foobarry> ah.
<dwatkins> Rust looks neat, but hoe come you get airdrops if you're making weapons out of sticks?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: it's post-apocalypse
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: so more "back to the stone-age" than "first time around stone-age"
<foobarry> convenient
<dwatkins> ah ok
<foobarry> oracle sent an email to me with an animated signature gif of a penguin walking along the oracle logo :-|
<dwatkins> does your e-mail client display it inline?
<foobarry> yes
<foobarry> thunderbird
<dwatkins> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Ry6jD83DGao/Ur2p-P0bjNI/AAAAAAAAJSU/Ms_JpnJ1C4Q/w500-h700-no/2013+-+1.gif - I'm tempted to e-mail this to someone now
<foobarry> screenshot from rust.
<dwatkins> impressive realism
<foobarry> much real
<foobarry> woops, its 2014. doge is dead
<MartijnVdS> such sad
 * popey slaps MartijnVdS 
<MartijnVdS> :(
<neuro> woop woop that's the sound of the police
<neuro> woop woop that's the sound of the netsplit
<neuro> happy new year ubuntuers
<MartijnVdS> you too, neuroman
<dwatkins> why do people feel the need to implement their own drop-down boxes in javascript?
<foobarry> doh, changed a password before xmas and didn't write it down
<bashrc> #fail
<bashrc> use keepassx
<foobarry> i do
<foobarry> ...usually
<foobarry> i did what sherlock does and managed to remember
<bashrc> I use it for all but a couple of passwords now.
<bashrc> braindb
 * popey hugs lastpass
<popey> and a gpg encrypted text file
 * foobarry thinks about luncheon
<foobarry> argh more rain
<foobarry> which part of a boiled egg is good for you? white or yolk?
<MartijnVdS> yes.
<MooDoo> http://www.fitsugar.com/Egg-Whites-Healthier-Than-Egg-Yolks-364527
<AlanBell> all of it, the white is basically just protene
<foobarry> the yolk is the eggy bit though so i can eat the white bit without it repeating on me
<foobarry> its amazing how much good stuff is in an egg
<popey> i suddenly want to eat an avacado pear
<foobarry> youtube subtitling needs fixing for northern accents: "i had an absolute nightmare and the flaps kept falling off on me" becomes: http://i.imgur.com/O8oLXgo.png
<MartijnVdS> it reads Northern enoguh
 * popey boggles at all that grey
<foobarry> i haz pixels to burn
<MartijnVdS> â« Burn baby burn / Pixel inferno ?
<foobarry> bottom bar shouldn't have been there
<popey> thunder and lightning!
<popey> and wind and rain
<foobarry> very very frightening
<MartijnVdS> galileo?
<dwatkins> Galileo
<MooDoo> sounds magnifico to me
<davmor2> figureo, will you let me go?
<MooDoo> no  no no no no no no
<foobarry> thunder and lightning reached e1
<davmor2> no thunder or lightning here, now I'm gutted, I wants thunderstorms too
<foobarry> i was supposed to be carrying a server to another building
<foobarry> not happening now
<davmor2> foobarry: wuss ;)
<brobostigon> [ 4495.638667] gspca_zc3xx 1-1.2:1.0: URB error -71, resubmittinggspca_zc3xx 1-1.2:1.0: URB error -71, resubmitting
<brobostigon> does anyone recognise this error in dmesg?
<foobarry> usb camera?
<brobostigon> yes.
<foobarry> checked the header file for the -71 error?
<brobostigon> the header file of the gspca driver?
<foobarry> i assumed so
<brobostigon> ok,
<foobarry> +PDEBUG(D_ERR, "URB error %i, resubmitting", urb->status);
<foobarry> what version you running btw?
<brobostigon> gspca ?
<foobarry> yes
<brobostigon> Linux raspberrypi 3.10.25+ #618 PREEMPT Thu Jan 2 20:00:10 GMT 2014 armv6l GNU/Linux
<brobostigon>  thats the kernel version, how do i find out?
<foobarry> was just looking at http://kerneldox.com/kdox-linux-2.6/d5/d3e/gspca_8c_source.html
<brobostigon> ok.
<foobarry> not sure the version is defined elsewhere than the source file
<brobostigon> ok,
<popey> KiB Mem:   8056528 total,  6706484 used,  1350044 free,    23844 buffers
<popey> KiB Swap:  8267772 total,  8254572 used,    13200 free,   891384 cached
<popey> hmm
<foobarry> brobostigon: In Linux 2.6, unlike earlier versions, interrupt URBs are not automagically
<foobarry> restarted when they complete.  They end when the completion handler is
<foobarry> called, just like other URBs.  If you want an interrupt URB to be restarted,
<foobarry> your completion handler must resubmit it
<brobostigon> foobarry: what does that mean?
<foobarry> i'm wondering if its a notification rather than an error
<foobarry> https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/usb/URB.txt
<foobarry> An URB consists of all relevant information to execute any USB transaction  and deliver the data and status back.
<popey> saw this and thought of bigcalm http://imgur.com/a/VIthk
<bigcalm> popey: nice script
<MartijnVdS> I couldn't do that without getting my hand all inky
<bigcalm> And a nice nib
<bigcalm> Not all FP nibs do that. They have to be flexible and intended for such action
<MartijnVdS> fpgeek alert :P
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: lefty?
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: yes
<SuperMatt> you poor, sinister thing
<MartijnVdS> nah, lefties rule! :)
<foobarry> +1
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: http://www.reddit.com/r/southpaws
<MooDoo> I'm ambedextrous :p
<nigelb> MooDoo: wow.
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: not ambisinister?
<SuperMatt> MartijnVdS: you can't be that great if you need your own support group :P
<nigelb> hahahaha
<foobarry> i'm lefty when writing and cutting with scissors, righty for most other things
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: support group, or "planning to take over the world" group? :)
<SuperMatt> definitely support
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Good, you keep thinking that ;)
<SuperMatt> "ooh, somebody help me please. I can't get these scissors working"
<foobarry> interestingly i'm lefty with a paintbrush for detail work, righty for airbrush and house painting
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: Scissors are fake.
<SuperMatt> "how do I open this tin can? why is my life so awful?"
<foobarry> SuperMatt: i have some left handed scissors, my wife used them and finally i got some sympathy
<SuperMatt> sympathy is for the weak
<foobarry> even facebook is quiet today
<SuperMatt> I guess there just aren't many people at work toady
<foobarry> realised i took delivery of a server and they sent the cpu, ram, raid card, all separate. i hate IBM
<SuperMatt> I should have had the foresight to take these two days off
<foobarry> i dunno, at least i can take a busy day off later
<SuperMatt> well, there are no busy days for me now
<SuperMatt> aint no one gonna give me any real work to do
<foobarry> coasting into the finish line
<SuperMatt> indeed
<SuperMatt> I'm so bored, I'm actually doing my timesheet *ahead* of schedule
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: so, prefilling it with what you think you'll be doing?
<SuperMatt> well no
<SuperMatt> I'm just filling in this week's today
<SuperMatt> rather than doing it next week
<SuperMatt> though I guess I could pre-fill
<SuperMatt> ok, all three of my timesheets are done, I just have to remember to submit them on the right days
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: I'll join your sinister club, MooDoo I always thought you swung both ways :D
<Monotoko> I have found 8 undocumented servers...
<Monotoko> so far
<Monotoko> >.>
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: time to turn them off and see who comes complaining
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS: no idea how to get into them... they're not in the password file I was given
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: pull the plug?
<Monotoko> so short of calling the DC and asking them to start pulling plugs
<Monotoko> yeah I was getting there
<Monotoko> :P
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: you could just disable the router ports
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS: also controlled by the DC... they have some odd cisco firewalls... we're leaving that DC shortly and I thought we only had 4 or so servers in there
<Monotoko> just checked the old admins email... she is getting active reports from servers that shouldn't exist from two hours ago
<MartijnVdS> interdasting
<Monotoko> more interesting, the boss says we aren't being charged for them
<gordonjcp> Monotoko: torrent boxes
<Monotoko> I keep being told that they're not on, even though I have a process report from 2 hours ago that clearly shows they are on and certainly doing something :P
<SuperMatt> opinions on nabbing a 200 line script you wrote at work to use elsewhere... go!
<foobarry> check your contract
<foobarry> do they forbid writing open source code? open source it!
<SuperMatt> it's not really worth open sourcing
<foobarry> but yes i always take code i write with the intention of re-using it...never do
<Monotoko> I open sourced a buttload of code I spent days slaving over at my old job
<SuperMatt> surely to open source some code, I'd need to get legal's approval?
<Monotoko> The company I was at closed a few months after I left... there was me and a support guy
<SuperMatt> ouchers
<Monotoko> knew I'd gone into a dying company a little too late
<SuperMatt> starting any job is fraught with those sorts of things
<SuperMatt> like, you can find out everything you know about a company and the role you're supposed to be doing, but you may still end up cleaning the toilets
<MartijnVdS> I spent only one month at my previous job..
<foobarry> but the toilets were very clean for that month
<Monotoko> hah, I spent 5 months down there... got there, realised my mistake almost instantly but had already relocated
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: they were, but that's because $employer installed *cameras*
<Monotoko> so it took me 5 months to try to find another job and relocate again
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko: or get a work-from-home type of job? :)
<popey> My very first job lasted 6 months, got made redundant.
<popey> Company moved to Essex and I didn't want to go.
<Monotoko> MartijnVdS: the problem with that, is 99% of it is marketing bullsh*t
<MartijnVdS> popey: essex isn't that bad is it?
<popey> Yes.
<foobarry> its ok actually
<popey> the bit they were moving to wasnt
<foobarry> chavtown?
<MartijnVdS> -on-sea?
<foobarry> you got it
<foobarry> i had this rubber thing 2 years before i knew what it was. am i using it correctly now i wonder? http://ubuntuone.com/015kUdNlUJx75qGk097ZfK
<MartijnVdS> is that what those are for?!
<foobarry> not sure if i should wind it round or end to end
<foobarry> also a packet of after eights leaked on the wire
<MartijnVdS> this looks correct, except I'd use it the other way around
<MartijnVdS> with the headphone end in the easy-to-remove side
<foobarry> both easy side
<MartijnVdS> ah then it's good like this
<foobarry> end to end requires bigger cable management holes
<foobarry> all the best toys come as freebies i pick up at shows
<Myrtti> ok, back from all hands at a ski resort, I got my supplies I requested - including a 1TB hdd for backups. Now, the question is, which filesystem should I put on it?
<IdleOne> ext4 unless you need read/write support from windows
<IdleOne> otherwise NTFS
 * popey hugs btrfs
<IdleOne> until it asplodes
<popey> Yeah, people say that.
<popey> mostly people who don't use btrfs â»
<IdleOne> I have never used it but LjL has and he had a lot of problems.
<IdleOne> that doesn't mean that it doesn't work great for you :)
<xnox> popey: don't temp me to upload patch "if login = popey...."
<xnox> =)
<popey> hah
<popey> I had a failure over xmas
<popey> one of my disks had a problem, could be cable issue
<popey> I powered down, detached all disks, re-attached and rebooted, all fine.
<popey>         corrected errors: 14547, uncorrectable errors: 0, unverified errors: 0
<popey> still scrubbing now
 * gordonjcp has just binned some hard disks
<popey>         corrected errors: 31439, uncorrectable errors: 0, unverified errors: 0
<popey> still climbing â»
<sebsebseb> hi
<sebsebseb> AlanBell and/or popey ping
<sebsebseb> need to ask you about something really
<popey> sebsebseb: ask away
<sebsebseb> popey: ok  helping to organise still (even though my own distro and  choosen interface got out voted),  an event  with some people from the LUG
<davmor2> popey: is this the equivalent of watching the log on raid rebuild?
<sebsebseb> we need some offical Ubuntu diss and   anything else like that really, to give away
<sebsebseb> discs above
<popey> Cool, yeah, I think AlanBell can sort that
<sebsebseb> popey: can you help with this?
<sebsebseb> yeah someone emailed him, but didn't get a reply, now I am down for sorting out most of the merchandice except for one of the distor's
<sebsebseb> need Ubuntu 13.10  discs  and  other freebies for the distro's
<sebsebseb> popey: didn't you used to sort out that kind of thing?
<popey> AlanBell is the man to speak to
<AlanBell> o/
<davmor2> popey: yeah if you can wrestle them away from his Chickens
<sebsebseb> yes thought so, but I thought you might have been able to help a well, anyway here he is it seems then
<AlanBell> hi sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: hi
<AlanBell> I have very few disks now, maybe 5 or so left
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: yep we got an event coming up in March and I am responsible for getting most of the freebies sorted out now
<AlanBell> if that
<sebsebseb> oh of Ubuntu 13.10 ?
<sebsebseb> ,but Ubuntu stickers and anything else you can give us like that for free, is also wanted really
<popey> i wouldn't distribute 13.10, it doesn't have a long shelf life
<AlanBell> no, they didn't press that one at all
<AlanBell> I have no 13.10 disks, not sure they exist at all
<sebsebseb> popey I know what you mean, but the event is 15th March
<xnox> AlanBell: last pressed release was 12.10, and still piles in the office =)
<sebsebseb> they are going with remasters of distro's actsaully that they have choosen,  but also want some official discs
<sebsebseb> popey: are you saying the LTS would be better to go for?
<xnox> AlanBell: next one to press, i think will be 14.04. (At least in 2013 that was the plan that LTS will still get pressed)
<popey> yes
<xnox> popey: 14.04 that is, right?! =)
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: have you got any discs for the LTS?
<sebsebseb> the current LTS
<popey> yes
<AlanBell> not sure I have any 12.04 left, certainly not many
<AlanBell> might have some server ones (which nobody wants)
<xnox> sebsebseb: not sure what the point in that would be. It will be 12.04.0, which has two years of update which will be >>700MB of downloads.
<xnox> sebsebseb: thus you are better off downloading a fresher iso, e.g. 12.04.3
<sebsebseb> xnox: of which?
<sebsebseb> oh I see
<sebsebseb> of the 12.04
<AlanBell> yeah, that would be a fairly nasty introduction to the distro now really
<popey> yeah
<popey> true
<sebsebseb> for this event atsauly what is happening is this:   they are going to have some demo computers, and then give out re msters with pre instaled this and that
<xnox> sebsebseb: all OEMs rebase on top of point releases, but i don't think we "repress" LTS CDs.
<sebsebseb> ,but still ant some offical discs for the distro's as well
<popey> the only re-press we did was 8.04.1 with the SSH fix
<xnox> sebsebseb: oh for giving out, any will do =)
<xnox> popey: i did not know that =)
<sebsebseb> also if anyone has  any idea's for event feedback forms, or suggestions for the questions, I am all open, since I am down to sorting that out as well,  and some kind of Libre Office info flyer/handout
<sebsebseb> a template even for such form
<AlanBell> what is the event?
<sebsebseb> an even that will probably be quite small
<sebsebseb> a local thing
<sebsebseb> ,but that is also aimed at the general public
<sebsebseb> meant to get people  to switch from WIndows to a Linux distro that's the idea
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: I don't know if you read that email, but someone emailed you about it already, the Bristol event
<sebsebseb> Linux Live 2014
 * AlanBell fails to find such an email
<sebsebseb> ok well no problem
<sebsebseb> ,but we want some offical discs if possible,  and anything else e.g. stickers
<sebsebseb> so if you can provide anything, that's greaty appreciated, and thanks in advanced :)
<AlanBell> they were doing conference packs, but shipping was messy, they came with my name on it to wherever they were going, so the shipments got refused and sent back
<sebsebseb> oh what's this?
<AlanBell> not sure if they are doing those at the moment until the next LTS
<sebsebseb> Mint is another distro that was choosen, that's probably going to be difficult to get anything for.   openSUSE on the other hand which is also in, well no problem there it seems
<ali1234> is there any way to make thunderbird's address book not suck?
<ali1234> by default it has two address books, ubuntu adds a third, and if you want to sync with anything, it adds another one
<ali1234> and there is no way to search all address books at the same time, or delete the built in ones
<ali1234> also there is no working contact search for unity
<AlanBell> sebsebseb: I really think Canonical is in a bit of a holding pattern until the phone and Unity 8 on the desktop comes out, I am not even sure if the 14.04 LTS will be a big deal
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: oh?
<AlanBell> well 14.04 doesn't get the new hotness that they are working on, no Mir, no unity8
<sebsebseb> yeah things will bbe pretty much the same until Unit 8  I guess
<sebsebseb> yeah thought htat's what you meant and indeed
<ali1234> also, if you import an account from outlook express, any time you send an email it will be From: "Imported Identity" instead of your actual name
<AlanBell> and they are talking about convergence all the time and this will kind of not be convergence
<sebsebseb> what's that convergence thing?
<sebsebseb> the running on more than one deice thing or
<AlanBell> running Mir and QML as the desktop shel
<AlanBell> on all the things
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: maybe the freebies will just be openSUSE for this event uh
<sebsebseb> and  some od stuff from Linux Format
<sebsebseb> magazines anyway  to read or whatever the idea was
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: maybe I can get some stuff in Belgium when I go to FOSDEM,   from the Belgium Ubuntu loco,  or whoever is running the stand, if there is one, which there probably wil be hmm
<AlanBell> that is a good idea
<sebsebseb> altough last year 2013,  I got a disc there, and they had some stickers they made, and that was about it
<sebsebseb> ,but really you don't have anything that you can send us really? for a small event
<sebsebseb> as in any Ubuntu merchandice,  whatever it may be
<sebsebseb> back
<sebsebseb> computer issue, well screen issue really,  since on netbook, and the interface  I was on etc
<sebsebseb> AlanBell: so anyway going back to what yu were saying, indeed I don't think 14.04 will be that speial really either
<sebsebseb> since no Unity 8 or Mir
<sebsebseb> by default
<AlanBell> I think it will be good, but I don't think they are going to make a huge fuss about it
<AlanBell> it doesn't really fit the narative  :)
<sebsebseb> well  it will be ike many other distor's mainly
<sebsebseb> just mainly the later upstream this and that
<sebsebseb> and not much else really
<AlanBell> yeah, unity8 on the desktop is going to be pretty wacky
<sebsebseb> wacky in a good or bad way?  you mean good way?
<AlanBell> dragging from the right edge to flip between apps etc
<AlanBell> and the indicator thing where they come down and side-swipe
<sebsebseb> I don't know really not used a preview even
<popey> Don't assume it'll be the same.
<sebsebseb> may have seen some screenshots some where or something, but other then that in that case, nothing
<AlanBell> I don't think there are desktop screenshots yet, but the phone is somewhat available
<sebsebseb> I got to do a little specch yesterday
<sebsebseb> at something
<sebsebseb> for  well two minutes at most
<sebsebseb> I mentioend alternatie phone OS'S  such as Ubuntu Phone and  Firefox OS :d
<AlanBell> popey: the desktop won't be the same as the phone or the desktop won't be the same as the current desktop?
<AlanBell> or both?
<sebsebseb> and how I would like to see Ubuntu Phone go main streame in 2014
<sebsebseb> and FIrefox OS  go main strema in the developed world to
<sebsebseb> and such
<popey> unity8 on phone/tablet/desktop/tv wont work identically, because it makes no sense
<popey> People assuming desktop will be the same as phone are as mad as assuming phone is the same as desktop
<popey> which it isnt
<AlanBell> but convergence!
<popey> same code base
<AlanBell> won't there be similarities?
<popey> doesn't mean works identically
<popey> yes
<popey> but there are degrees of similarity
<popey> similar != identical
<AlanBell> more than there are at the moment?
<AlanBell> I was expecting it to be closer because right now using the desktop doesn't help you at all in terms of using the phone
<popey> right, so unity8 will look somewhat more like unity8 on the phone does, and operate somewhat similar to unity7 on the desktop does
<sebsebseb> popey: heh heh you don't even know what it will look like seriously?   and you work for Canonical now :d
<popey> *sigh*
<AlanBell> popey does know what it will look like, I don't
<popey> i dont
<sebsebseb> popey: oh maybe I miss read that,  thought you were asking a quesiton
<popey> design team may change things between now and release date
<AlanBell> well I guess we will all find out together when they start working on it
<AlanBell> presume we have to wait until 14.10 repos go live to see anything
<popey> i expect before then
<popey> as there will be previews in 14.04 AIUI
<AlanBell> oooh
<AlanBell> I haven't tried any of the Mir stuff since they backed out of it for the default configuration
<AlanBell> xmir was surprisingly OK
<AlanBell> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25584644 I spy with my little eye
<AlanBell> Unity 2d?
<AlanBell> black launcher background and old style BFB I think
<popey> could be
<popey> previously used at http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jun/25/north-korea-south-websites-hacking-cyber-attack
<AlanBell> heh, and lots of other cybercrime stories
<popey> hah, "neuro is online"
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-04
<foobarry> spotted at the museum of childhood. the small text says "i think war games are..." http://i.imgur.com/tVFbKae.jpg
<Myrtti> $time_of_day
<MartijnVdS> za jan  4 11:12:44 CET 2014
<popey> moin
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning everyone,
<brobostigon> is it possible to resize an ext4 partition to make space for a partition to put haiku on, without mucking up grub2?
<arc__> Good morning
<arc__> Uk
<brobostigon> morning arc__
<dwatkins> is Haiku what became of BeOS?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: yes, and i want to more permentnetly test on real hw than only inside a vm.
<dwatkins> looks ace
<brobostigon> its is, it has came along huge strides.
<dwatkins> I wonder if it will run Steam games like KSP.
<brobostigon> no idea.
<arc__> Haiku why are u talking about poems :D
<brobostigon> they do have a modern upto hate html5 and webkit implementation.
<brobostigon> upto date*
<dwatkins> arc__: https://www.haiku-os.org/gallery?albumid=5167080228181734945
<brobostigon> a beautiful hybrid kernel OS, :)
<brobostigon> anyways back to my question ,if i did that, would it wreck grub2?
<arc__> looks ok
<brobostigon> its the best gui i have ever used, and the fastest, and the fastest booting.
<arc__> Not the best looking
<brobostigon> that very different, form being perfect in terms of usability.
<arc__> Yea 9t is very useable
<arc__> Makes me think of windows
<brobostigon> the design is so different, its much closer to the amiga.
<popey> brobostigon: resizing ext4 down shouldn't be a problem
<brobostigon> popey: ok thank you.
<arc__> It's just it's not pleasing for the eyes
<dwatkins> 9t?
<arc__> It
<dwatkins> :)
<dwatkins> I thought you might be referring to a window manager
<arc__> So it's not based on linux then [cool]
<arc__> Lol
<dwatkins> I like i3: http://i3wm.org/
<arc__> No
<dwatkins> I do, true fact.
<arc__> Really
<arc__> ?
<dwatkins> I'm confused as to what you're saying, arc__
<arc__> I got a fresh install of ubuntu 12.04 lts to play with so see ya[i meant nothing just messing]
<brobostigon> ok, does the drive reference and or the partition uuid need to be equal for grub2 to recognise it?
<bigcalm> Anybody here, apart from me, use nut?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: nut?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: ah the network ups thung
<MartijnVdS> thing
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: I take that as a no then :)
<arc__> Ahh ubuntu being slow [good times]
<bigcalm> So, does the dash do fancy number conversions like google does?
<arc__> What can win server do that ubuntu server cant ?
<MartijnVdS> crash a lot
<arc__> Really?
<MartijnVdS> arc__: it's better than ever, but I still wouldn't recommend it ;)
<MartijnVdS> unless you're made of money..
<arc__> which server os can admin linux mac and windows
<bigcalm> It can run ms sql server
<MartijnVdS> arc__: that question does not make sense
<arc__> so i can create manange users on other os's
<MartijnVdS> arc__: An OS is an OS, "server" and "not-server" is usually just a difference of a few tuning parameters and maybe more ""desktop"-like software preinstalled
<MartijnVdS> arc__: http://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Samba_AD_DC_HOWTO
<MartijnVdS> arc__: Any of those 3 OSes can do that :)
<arc__> Ok but not user management
<MartijnVdS> arc__: yes, also user management
<arc__> on other client os [win , mac, linux ]
<MartijnVdS> arc__: you can connect a Windows machine to a Linux machine running Samba4 in AD DC mode, and log in using any user from the AD
<MartijnVdS> arc__: you can manage that AD (which runs on the Linux box) from Linux fine
<MartijnVdS> Apple is a bit special.
<arc__> Oh ok
<arc__> Why apple a bit special ?
<MartijnVdS> arc__: well, you CAN bind it to AD, but it's weird.
<arc__> how weired
<MartijnVdS> please read the documentation yourself to figure that out.
<arc__> ok :(
<arc__> But this samba is completely a diffrent server os [rather than the one u install a normal ubuntu desktop right ?]
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> it's a piece of software you can run on a Linux (or BSD, or other Unix) machine
<MartijnVdS> just like MS SQL Server is a piece of software you can run on a Windows machine
<arc__> Ok
<arc__> So it should be included in ubuntu server 12.04.3 right
<arc__> ?
<MartijnVdS> samba4 - dummy transitional package for samba 4.x series
<MartijnVdS> that's on current development
<MartijnVdS> samba4 - SMB/CIFS file, NT domain and active directory server (version 4)
<MartijnVdS> that's on 12.04
<MartijnVdS> it probably works better in the newer versions (like the new LTS, coming in April)
<arc__> Ok will read up and try it out today then
<Myrtti> trying to watch the same tv show while being 1000miles apart is a bit difficult
<brobostigon> worked perfectly, no issues, haiku build environment back again.
<brobostigon> can wait to get my hands on the packaging system,
<brobostigon> cant*
<dwatkins> people still use 123reg.co.uk? wow
<dwatkins> Myrtti: I assume it's not simply a case of browsing to http://tvcatchup.com ...
<Myrtti> dwatkins: no, it's more about synchronised watching
<brobostigon> cm11-m2-grouper, :)
<Myrtti> o ho
<Myrtti> syncplay seems promising
<Myrtti> very promising
<daftykins> for what scenario?
<Myrtti> for me being in Finland and dsample in UK and wanting to watch the same show at the same time while in a Google+ Hangout with eachother
<Myrtti> *cough* Sherlock *cough*
<daftykins> ah right
<daftykins> yeah in another chan they watch films with a few at the same time but it doesn't tend to be done very scientifically
<daftykins> despite them being aware of syncplay
<penguin42> Myrtti: Crap!
<penguin42> (I really did find it pretty bad)
<Myrtti> penguin42: hum?
<dwatkins> I imagine with the right hardware, you could simply pipe the video feed from the TV/set-top-box into the hangout
<penguin42> Myrtti: Sherlock
<dwatkins> or just have it downloaded and press play at the same time, iPlayer or whatever
<Myrtti> dwatkins: sure, but being able to control pausing etc helps with keeping in sync
<Myrtti> penguin42: *shrug* could've been better but it was ok.
<penguin42> Myrtti: Just thought it was missing much plot or any hard problems
<Myrtti> well yes, it was a filler
<moreati> sherlock?
<Myrtti> yeah.
<mapito> hey
<mapito> anyone able to answer a quick dns query?
<daftykins> just ask!
<mapito> quick question - say I had an A record example.com IN A 1.2.3.4 could I not just then have a CNAME record like www.example.com IN CNAME example.com record to make www.example.com point to example.com so you could use both http:// and http://wwww
<daftykins> on my control panel with my provider, i have two A records for that
<daftykins> the first is blank in the 'name' field and points to the IP
<daftykins> then the second has the name 'www' and also points to the IP
<mapito> yea thats what i'd read aswell an a record for example.com and an a record for the www
<daftykins> so that should work if you're having issues with non-www's failing
<mapito> but why couldnt you have example.com point to the IP using an A record then www.ex.com a CNAME to example.com ?
<mapito> maybe im just being stupid but i dont see why a cname wouldnt work :)
<daftykins> that sounds like it'd cause a repeat to me
<daftykins> you don't want to double requests
<mapito> hmm
<daftykins> but i don't know DNS as well as i'd like unfortunately
<mapito> because we'd be requesting www.example.com then example.com i see
<mapito> yea was just curious :)
<daftykins> i think so yeah
<mapito> thanks
<daftykins> np :)
<mapito> installed cowsay on my machine now :D
<daftykins> XD
<mapito> nice to get the little info bits when i login
<mapito> quiet ere today
<daftykins> yeah it is a bit
<mapito> what you doing? man that London sky cycle thing would be cool - and am i the only person that wants google glass or a competitors..if and when anyone else launches
<daftykins> sat at my desktop with the cat on my lap, playing a game at the moment :)
<mapito> what game? you thought much about glass?
<daftykins> it's a little too gimmicky for me really, plus i wear specs normally anyway so i'd probably have to sell a kidney for such things
<daftykins> i picked up Max Payne 3 during the Steam sales, so trying that out at the moment
<mapito> theyre working on prescription glasses that work with glass
<mapito> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1023_3-57616418-93/google-glass-prescription-frames-said-to-start-at-$99/
<daftykins> yeah that's what'd cost a fortune
<daftykins> i already pay Â£350+ for a pair of specs
<mapito> wish theyd hurry up with the ftc here
<daftykins> what do you have at the moment?
<mapito> 6mbit adsl:(
<daftykins> hmm, are you in some rural outskirts somewhere?
<daftykins> i'm on the Channel Island of Guernsey and now have 40 down, 5 up VDSL2 for Â£35/month unlimited
<mapito> In stoke - ST1 area - 6mbit adsl when i was in ST4 had 6mbit too it sucks man
<mapito> 7years ago at uni I had 20mbit NTL in PO2 or whatever fenton is and then 20mbit again in PO1
<mapito> my dad has 75mbit BT FTC and 100mbit VM says hes gona dump one..but i cant get ANYTHING
<daftykins> ouch
<daftykins> heh two services is nice
<mapito> yea having the choice..but yep i have nothing bt site says FTC is there soon and its accepting orders but that means accepting orders from isps..so not ready7 for customers yet
<mapito> who you with
<daftykins> we have our own telcos down here on the islands
<daftykins> a company in Bahrain now owns it
<mapito> ah
<popey> Evening all.
<daftykins> hiya
<ali1234> unity still gives weird, irrelevant, and inappropriate results: http://imagebin.org/285172
<penguin42> ali1234: I feel that is the title of a launchpad bug
<ali1234> yeah i'm just wondering what package i should even report it against
<penguin42> unity-scope-onlinemusic - Unity Scope that provides online music to the Dash. ?
<ali1234> i kind of feel like nobody will even see it there
<ali1234> plus it isn't hard to get rubbish like this from any of the scopes
<penguin42> just unity then?
<penguin42> ali1234: I'm not sure whether the word or the fact that it in no way matches the search term offends me more
<popey> ali1234: file a bug against that package and I'll make sure someone sees it.
<popey> someone useful.
<ali1234> popey: bug 1266098
<lubotu3> bug 1266098 in unity-scope-onlinemusic (Ubuntu) "Music scope returns weird, irrelevant, inappropriate, NSFW results" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1266098
<penguin42> ali1234: What's the word under the redline after Disco?
<ali1234> penguin42: it actually says "...e"
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah right
<ali1234> the result is shortened
<ali1234> the actual word though is gnome
<ali1234> so the shortening algorithm removed the only part that matched the search
<penguin42> ali1234: OK, so a google search says that TF have a tune 'Disco Gnome (Tale of Us Remix)'
<penguin42> ali1234: So that's why that was a match
<ali1234> right but it's still weird (robocop riding a unicorn?), irrelevant to what i wanted, and NSFW
 * penguin42 has probably now popped his search bubble having searched for that
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh I agree, but it does at least explain why it matched
<popey> ali1234: ta
<ali1234> does firefox use gtk2 or gtk3?
<ali1234> if it uses gtk3, why does it's file open requester look different to the one in gedit, under trusty?
<ali1234> but if it uses gtk2, why does it display ~/.config/gtk-3.0/bookmarks in the sidebar?
<penguin42> I'd say it uses 2
<penguin42> ali1234: It would make sense for them both to share one set of bookmarks, otherwise it would get messy
<ali1234> gtk2 uses ~/.gtk-bookmarks
<ali1234> at least it used to
<penguin42> it certainly seems bad for them to use different ones, and it seems right that being config it should be in .config
<ali1234> actually that can't be right
<ali1234> yeah, ok
<ali1234> so they rewrote file requesters in gtk 3.10
<ali1234> in 3.8 they are identical to gtk2 ones
<ali1234> but when you install trusty, gtk2 and gtk3 apps now have different file requesters
 * penguin42 doesn't think he has any GTK3 apps installed
<Myrtti> oooher http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/athene-utility-style-bracelet
<bigcalm> Myrtti: that looks quite nice
<Myrtti> it does
<bigcalm> Sadly not going to make its goal though
<bigcalm> People lack money after xmas
<bigcalm> Oh, it's gone the flexible funding route though
<Myrtti> indeed
<arc___> hey if i want to make my ubuntu server a primary domain controller do i need to install samba4
<arc___> do i do apt-get install samba4
<arc___> anyone or am i asking in the wrong place ?
<penguin42> arc___: #ubuntu is main support
<penguin42> arc___: I don't know the Samba foo though
<ali1234> ugh... firefox has this stupid bug where redirects stop working
<ali1234> i've seen it on two machines now
<ali1234> it stops happening if you restart firefox... until the next time it happens
<ali1234> it could only be a bug in firefox, or caused by adblock plus... i can't stand to use the internet without adblock plus for long enough to reproduce it
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-05
<arc__> Hello all
<ali1234> twisted has a class called "InMemoryUsernamePasswordDatabaseDontUse"
<ali1234> i find this very amusing
<penguin42> how many uses of it are there?
<ali1234> good question
<ali1234> so i'm writing a silly little app with twisted and pygame
<ali1234> the mechanics of letting people join a chatroom are... interesting
<ali1234> for example, why shouldn't multiple users have exactly the same name?
<daftykins> depends how they're identified for sending out the messages i suppose
<ali1234> weirdly, if you go totally minimal there are also no restrictions on what you can allow
<daftykins> in terms of?
<ali1234> well supposing you don't use anything the client sends to hash the connections
<ali1234> now anyone can set any name they want
<ali1234> everyone can have the same name if they want to
<arc__> There is no point of having the same name [it will get confusing :)]
<ali1234> confusing is good
<ali1234> (as long as i am not the one who is confused)
<arc__> Maybe :D
<arc__> Its like say mike when there is 100 mikes
<arc__> It gets award :)
<ali1234> ah but i'm making a chat room where everyone has a unique avatar
<ali1234> so you can go "hey mike with pink hair"
<ali1234> problem solved?
<arc__> Kk zlol
<arc__> U have to let me try the beta
<ali1234> in fact i probably won't even display names
<arc__> Woe !?
<arc__> I mean wow !?
<arc__> Well anyway good night and don't let those server hackers bite
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS is doing chef stuffs again
<brobostigon> yummy,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.getchef.com/
<brobostigon> looks interesting.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: makes it very easy to set up a new server when an old one dies -- all you need is a basic install and a run of "chef"
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: because all configuration files, list of packages to install, etc. are kept there
<brobostigon> definatly useful.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<MartijnVdS> also allows you to clone machines easily (like adding + configuring more webservers when load goes up)
<MartijnVdS> much flexible!
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> (you define "recipes", which you can further configure using "roles", and you assign machines ("nodes") one or more roles
<brobostigon> so a recipe would be something like apache setup, then a role would be something like lamp, combining several recipes together?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes
<brobostigon> cool.
<bigcalm> Anybody know of a voice memo app for Android that will automatically email once recording has finished?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I use Google Keep, it doesn't email, but stores it in Google Drive
<bigcalm> Humm, that might be an option at a push
<bigcalm> Thanks
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: automatic sharing is a pain on android, because "sharing" triggers the UI usually, to select an app to share with
<MartijnVdS> so the app would have to speak SMTP itself
<bigcalm> That's arse
<bigcalm> *grumble*
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: but there might be ways around that, because G+ has a special dialog too
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.tokasiki.android.voicerecorder claims "Send data as attached file via gmail"
<bigcalm> I need to be able to record thought just before I fall asleep at night. And then those thoughts to be emailed to me ready for digestion the next morning in my office
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: oh, that looks to be good
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: if you set Google Keep as the default page in your web browser at work, that should work ;)
<bigcalm> :P
<mapps> sounds interesting 0=- thoughts before you go to sleep eh..what do you do before sleep
<MartijnVdS> mapps: he's trying to conceal that he's actually a robot that doesn't need sleep
<mapps> aha:D
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> I think about work :(
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: is it that much fun? :)
<bigcalm> I don't want to be thinking about work my whole waking life
<mapps> why do u then
<mapps> what is your job? not a sysamdin or something and ou kie there talking commands?
<mapps> lol
<bigcalm> Humf, too many steps required to send an email from this app. Might try Google Keep
<bigcalm> mapps: I'm a web dev
<MartijnVdS> mapps: "*zzz* *mumble* rm -rf *mumble* *zzzz*", next morning he wakes up to an empty server ;)
<mapps> lol
<mapps> =]
<bigcalm> Haha, it attempts to do voice to text: "suzi really into she speak this pos it doesn't like it speak slowly"
 * bigcalm goes to make bacon sandwiches
<MartijnVdS> what did you actually say?
<mapps> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sumvision-Cyclone-Micro-Media-Player/dp/B0030DL3SC
<mapps> love those
<mapps> so small and play everything
<arc__> Hello
<Myrtti> bigcalm: I'm trying frantically to remember what I've been doing for the past two months, timesheets are due on Tuesday...
<Myrtti> ngh.
<penguin42> Myrtti: I find that's what the 'sent' folder is for
<Myrtti> yeah, combing through my emails isn't that much fun either
<dwatkins> my browser history is quite useful for that, depends on what you do, though
<Myrtti> that would be useful, if I hadn't been bouncing from one browser to another...
<Myrtti> onnghh
<ali1234> it's done: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/swosh/swosh-0.2.tar.gz
<ali1234> the most confusing chat room ever
<bigcalm> directhex: is there any point in me downloading and seeding beta1?
<directhex> bigcalm, no. i'm hoping to make a release today
<directhex> if i can defeat pulse
<bigcalm> I did wonder :)
 * penguin42 hands directhex a larger hammer
<bigcalm> You need to be more vocal about your releases. I only seeded 1.0beta1alpa1 to 4.53 and completely missed beta1
<bigcalm> Oh well, seeding anyway. Just for fun :) (only took 3 mins to fetch)
<ali1234> i'm at 58.44
<directhex> ok, if this works, i'm tagging the release & starting on documentation
<daftykins> just got a friends old and new laptop in to migrate between
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/x4l3zda0j4296me/IMG_20140105_144506.jpg
<daftykins> Latvian keyboards O_O
<penguin42> not that weird, although I can't quite see what's going on with the \|
<daftykins> hehe
<penguin42> daftykins: I mean at least all the numbers and letters are in the right place - I mean look at French; http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Backslash_On_French_Keyboard.jpg
<penguin42> that's just insane
<daftykins> :)
<popey> that used to throw me all the time when I taught classes in belgium
<penguin42> popey: Set the keymap back to UK/US and close your eyes?
<bigcalm> Or just don't look at the keyboard :P
<popey> i would if the pc admins let me â¹
<daftykins> haha slip into blind pianist mode
<penguin42> omg, I hadn't realised they'd moved the M as well
<daftykins> *nod*
<penguin42> wth possessed them to move the M?
<daftykins> working on French housemates ones back in Uni always made me laugh when first seeing command prompt asked for confirmation with "O/N?"
<Myrtti> penguin42: huh?
<Myrtti> it's where it's supposed to be
<daftykins> nooo!
<daftykins> zxcvbnm
<Myrtti> isn't it like that in UK too?
<bigcalm> No
<penguin42> Myrtti: No - *every* other keyboard layout has the M on the bottom row next to the N
<bigcalm> Um, UK is as daftykins says
<Myrtti> are you confusing the cyrillic subset with the Latin one?
<Myrtti> because it looks like you are
<penguin42> Myrtti: I'm talking about the French layout link I sent
<penguin42> Myrtti: http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Backslash_On_French_Keyboard.jpg
<Myrtti> oh, that
<Myrtti> azerty
<directhex> ok, who can help me seed Ye Olde SteamOSe third release?
<daftykins> azerty, wx and m displaced
<directhex> this one is 300M smaller, and fixes audio issues
<Myrtti> Finnish keyboards have the non-Latin characters moved
<Myrtti> but otherwise it's the same
<Myrtti> next to z on the left is <>| key, next to m is ,; key
<daftykins> is m bottom or middle row?
<Myrtti> and whateer comes with shift+numbers is also changed I suppose
<Myrtti> daftykins: zxcvbnm,.-
<ali1234> directhex: i can't really do anything until there's an existing DHT network
<directhex> magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d477fa46779600d162e49bc95de02cc2a34ad535&dn=yeoldesteamos-20131219-beta2.iso&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.publicbt.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.openbittorrent.com%3A80%2Fannounce
<directhex> i'll work on getting my main CDN online
<penguin42> Myrtti: Yeh the weirdest thing on Finnish seems to be losing the ^ and shifting the &*() across
<Myrtti> ^ is just moved
<penguin42> but that layout isn't THAT weird
<Myrtti> Finnish, no.
<directhex> ali1234, well it's showing up on the trackers now with me as sole seeder. not a fast way to do initial transfer, mind you
<ali1234> yeah.. i still can't access the trackers
<directhex> oh yeah... grr
<ali1234> if you enable DHT, it will probably work, eventually
<bigcalm> directhex: is there a new torrent?
<directhex> bigcalm, yes
<bigcalm> directhex: where would I find it?
<daftykins> he's working on that now
<directhex> http://retro.apebox.org/yeoldesteamos-20131219-beta2.iso.torrent
<bigcalm> Oh, okay
<bigcalm> Ta
<directhex> not many seeders yet, mind you
<bigcalm> Not surprising :)
<bigcalm> Shall I stop seeding beta1alpha1?
<directhex> bigcalm, yeah, that's pretty much obsolete, as per the changelog on http://directhex.github.io/steamos-installer/
<daftykins> are you after decent connections or anything you can get?
<bigcalm> Every little helps
<directhex> daftykins, for the initial rush (i.e. next few days) anything i can get. after then the whole bittorrent thing should take care of itself, really
<bigcalm> I limit all of my torrent uploads to 150K/s though
<daftykins> cool, i'll fire it up
<directhex> it helps to have a fat pipe early on, but the guy i got to help me last time is afk
<directhex> at least it's smaller this time, so less to seed :D
<directhex> OK. how can i record a video from vmware, where the resolution will change frequently? vmware 10 dropped the record feature
 * daftykins joins the torrent
<daftykins> bigcalm: what's your upload, to cap at that? i used to cap at that when i had 2Mb
<penguin42> directhex: What happens if you run it full screen and try some whole screen recorders?
<directhex> penguin42, i'll test that. might be my only choice
<directhex> will tinker once windows finishes installing
<bigcalm> daftykins: I'm on VirginMedia's 60/3 connection
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> having 5 up now is soooo much nicer
<directhex> i have 16 up, but torrents always seem slow for me :/
<daftykins> slow on the download?
 * popey en-torrents
<daftykins> or upload
<directhex> upload
<daftykins> how odd
<daftykins> i'm hovering between 320 and 400KB/sec up atm, 400 being my self-imposed cap
 * popey torrents on his vps, 100Mb/s up/down
<daftykins> 760 down :O
<bigcalm> I've increased my upload to 200K/s
<directhex> oh that's better, 2MB up
<directhex> or is that 2Mb?
<directhex> MB. i guess i'm maxed out then
<popey> wheeee
<popey> 2.5MB/s down
<popey> 1.7MB/s up
<daftykins> XD
<popey> and climbing
<bigcalm> That's what you get for joining the party late :P
<daftykins> my VPS only has ~200GB/month so i can't do that (:
<bigcalm> I can't remember what Bytemark limit me to, don't want to mess with it
<daftykins> that's my bigv one
<popey> seems to have topped out at 2.5MB/s each way
<popey> I get way more bandwidth than I can use on my vpos
<popey> -o
<arc__> Hello
<daftykins> popey: is that a bitfolk one?
<popey> Projected / Contracted (GB)
<popey>      In: 6.836 / 880.000
<popey>     Out: 51.884 / 440.000
<popey> yes
<popey> that was last month
<daftykins> ooh that'd be nice
<bigcalm> 13 mins remaining. Now 5 mins, 7 mins, 5, 4,
<arc__> I need help with samba4 anc pdc
<arc__> And pdc
<arc__> I have it set up but my win xp pc cant connect to it
<daftykins> XP's dead in 3 months ;)
<Myrtti> oh
<Myrtti> I seem to be giving my whole bandwidth to the torrent by accident
<arc__> It says invalid domain
 * penguin42 hands daftykins the wooden stakes
<daftykins> penguin42: ty sir! *sharpens*
<arc__> Also my mac cant connect to it ethier
<arc__> What am i doing wornd
<arc__> Worng
<penguin42> daftykins: If that doesn't work you could try mercury and holy water in through the CD slot
<daftykins> can't say i have experience involving domain controllers with samba setup, but i've done simple file shares hosted on Linux
<arc__> k
<popey> http://tools.bitfolk.com/cacti/graph_2769.html
<popey> expect that to look different in a bit
<daftykins> arc__: what's your setup? Linux system sharing a folder to this mac and XP client?
<popey> directhex: done, seeding at 2MB/s
<arc__> Ubuntu server as a pdc
<directhex> :D
 * daftykins thinks he's going to come second
<directhex> i wanna record a screencast on installing dual-boot steamos, then i'll announce
<popey> zoiks, 4Mb/s
<popey> 5.. â¨
<bigcalm> Finished
<arc__> i my clients to logon and save there stuff in the server they have a h drive
<arc__> I want
<daftykins> aww ok i came third
<bigcalm> :D
<daftykins> the stats of your progress in my client lied ;)
<popey> hah
<daftykins> there we go, seeding @ 400KB/sec
<arc__> What r u seeding ? [Dont say plants :)]
<popey> suppose I should rate limit this
<daftykins> arc__: directhex's steamOS version
<arc__> Oh ok
<Myrtti> wheee
<arc__> Where can i download it from ?
<daftykins> arc__: i have never setup a server such as that then i'm afraid :( have you found any guides online or some-such?
<popey> http://retro.apebox.org/yeoldesteamos-20131219-beta2.iso.torrent
<arc__> COOL WILL download
<bigcalm> Don't forget to see!
<bigcalm> seed!
<directhex> penguin42's idea works, but kazam doesn't seem to record properly from my microphone :/
<daftykins> :<
<penguin42> directhex: Does anything else record from your mic?
<daftykins> hrmm best get doing some house chores instead of working on these laptops! as fun as it is
<popey> directhex: vokoscreen is quite nice
<popey> [Rate   0.0/  0.0 KB]
<popey> right, everyone's got it now â»
<directhex> i think the baby just woke up /o\
<bigcalm> Nope, I'm still uploading
<directhex> popey, not in saucy?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6697511/
<popey> directhex: no, i got a deb from somewhere iirc
<popey>   Installed: 1.8.2-1
<popey> probably debian
<bigcalm> Who is the ono.com user?
<ali1234> i finally managed to connect
<bigcalm> ali1234: I see you @ 110K/s
 * daftykins spots an ali1234 
<bigcalm> Heh
<daftykins> do i show up as some dynamic .sure.com ?
<Myrtti> I see only ip addresses
<Myrtti> not hosts
<bigcalm> Same here, manually translating them
<directhex> OK it'll do. recording time.
<Myrtti> and I see only 3 peers
<ali1234> i'm getting 1.3M/s
<daftykins> ah my client resolves for me
<arc__> I am downloading now
<ali1234> 10M/s and it's complete
<daftykins> :O
<arc__> Eta 4h
<arc__> Going to be a long wait
<daftykins> whoever's @ demon.co.uk shows up as 0% complete 0o
<ali1234> that is also me
<daftykins> hehe nah you should speed up in a bit
<ali1234> i started a local client with dht to try to bootstrap the server
<penguin42> popey: What does scrub do?
<arc__> Yay eta 42 mins
<daftykins> ali1234: ah, it seems to grab a couple of KB/sec every now and then
<ali1234> yeah i set it to max 5K/s download
<ali1234> since i don't actually want to download it, just get the peerlist onto DHT
<popey> penguin42: checks for inconsistencies
<daftykins> mm-hmm
<directhex> nope, baby is awake. screencast cancelled
<directhex> GRARGH
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> the wee hexy spawn
<arc__> Eta 19 mins from eta 4h
 * popey wgets the iso down to his home server and seeds there
<directhex> bloody children
<directhex> ok, announce time
<nigelb> what are you guys downloading?
<daftykins> directhex's steamOS build
<nigelb> aha
<penguin42> popey: So basically fsck?
<popey> not really
<popey> it works online
<penguin42> ah
<popey> \o/ seeding at home too
<popey> there is a fsck utility too (contrary to popular opinion) :D
<popey> not that I've ever had to use it, because btrfs (IME) has recovered fine without itt
<popey> -t
<popey> right, to the shops
<popey> ttfn
<arc__> so what is special about this ver of steam os
<daftykins> directhex's edition takes away a lot of daft limitations it has
<popey> doesnt need UEFI for example
<daftykins> like installing to LVM only
<directhex> arc__, see list on http://directhex.github.io/steamos-installer/
<arc__> Ok thanks
<arc__> It awesome should work perfectly on my old gaming rig
<arc__> thanks for creating this
<directhex> OK, announcement now public
<daftykins> where's that?
<bigcalm> Twitter :)
<daftykins> hehe
<directhex> twitter, reddit, steam forums
<daftykins> hah, close my eyes bopping to a tune, open them and the cat has materialised in front of my face on my desk
 * bigcalm wants a kitty
<daftykins> i kinda adopted cat #3 from my parents already great pet collection
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/gu9d8nzqcmr7o51/REflJuBE_z
<daftykins> she's settled in well :>
<daftykins> haha this Lenovo comes with a start menu replacement on Windows 8
<ali1234> right, i figured out how to bounce bittorrent tracker udp traffic and now i can connect to the trackers :)
<daftykins> what's different about your setup that you needed to fiddle?
<ali1234> it's on hetzner
<daftykins> ah yes
<bigcalm> Why do I never have AAA batteries when I need them?
<daftykins> hehe
<bigcalm> Found 8 dead. Now on charge
<bigcalm> *grumble*
<daftykins> new Lenovo cheaptop from amazon then, Â£260 delivered - 40GB of the 500GB drive wasted due to crazy manufacturer restore partitions
<bigcalm> It saves them shipping restore media
<daftykins> *nod*
<ali1234> the lenovo one is actually quite good as it combines installation and backup into one system
<ali1234> has some bugs though
<daftykins> no doubt i'm going to nuke it with a clean 8.1 install shortly
<bigcalm> Finally passed the ratio of 1
<daftykins> bigcalm: hehe, i'm hitting 2.9
<sebsebseb> hi
<bigcalm> :P
<bigcalm> 1.16
<bigcalm> Hi
<daftykins> lots of US based clients mooching it
<daftykins> a Spaniard earlier too
<DJones> daftykins: Which Lenovo did you get?
<daftykins> DJones: not me personally, but this is the super cheap: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-G500s-15-6-inch-Laptop-Integrated/dp/B00FSBF7A4/
<daftykins> not long ago i also setup a U330 Touch, which was a Â£580 ultrabook
<DJones> Shame, I was hoping for an i7 with nvidia graphics and 1920x1080 graphics for the Â£260 :)
<daftykins> haha
<DJones> Oh, and a touchscreen
<daftykins> how gimmicky :(
<bigcalm> Somebody with verizon.net just went 100%
<bigcalm> Maybe I should try out this thing, rather than just seed it
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> bigcalm: that's dangerous talk
<popey>             done      811.0 MB Rate: 176.3 /   0.0 KB Uploaded:  4847.0 MB                 [   R: 5.98]
<popey> nearly 6
<daftykins> :)
<Myrtti> I'm having an extremely slow day
<daftykins> me too
<Myrtti> what was the command to figure out the uuid of a harddrive again?
<daftykins> blkid
<daftykins> with sudo i believe
<Myrtti> yeah I remembered that immediately after saying it...
<daftykins> hate it when that happens :)
<Myrtti> so when there's a harddrive I don't want to be automounted, can I do like "UUID=xxxx-xxxx none vfat noauto 0 0"?
<bigcalm> Something like that, yes
<bigcalm> Though, if the drive isn't in fstab, it shouldn't be auto mounted anyway
<Myrtti> external harddrive
<bigcalm> Oh, they have a habit of auto mounting, yes :)
<Myrtti> (I got an external 1TB harddrive from work for doing backups, it has a small partition with their Mac and Windows software on it which I'm not interested in but don't really want to nuke from the harddrive either)
<bigcalm> Aha
<directhe`> vokoscreen AV sync is not so good :/
<directhe`> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/vokoscreen/BUhQ3E7SygA
<directhe`> garbage
<directhe`> Think it's hard installing Ye Olde SteamOSe dual boot? A VIDEO FOR YOU! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiidu3jHWLQ&feature=youtu.be
<Seeker`> wow, LjL  is still around
<popey>             done      811.0 MB Rate: 241.8 /   0.0 KB Uploaded: 14219.8 MB                 [   R: 17.53]
<popey> whee
<directhex> popey, popular download?
<directhex> i only have a 4.3 ratio here
<popey> yeah, seems popular
<popey> also served ~2.0 from my home rate-limited box
 * popey embeddens
<Azelphur> does anyone know if there's a way in conky to goto a voffset?
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-29
<mjayk> Haya all
<daftykins> o/
<mapp> hi all
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MooDoo> morning all
<MooDoo> hows everyont this morning?
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: amused by confusion :)
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Today is the start of "Week 1 of 2015", and people can't wrap their heads around that :)
<MartijnVdS> (the ISO week-year is the year that 4 or more days in a week fall in.. and weeks start on Monday)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> morning everyone !
<knightwise> hows everybody doing today ?
<MooDoo> not too bad thanks, what about you
<MooDoo> ?
<knightwise> doin ok , finishing up some preparations on the next podcast episode on Chromebooks
<knightwise> + just ordered me a raspberry pi to play with
<MooDoo> lovely
<knightwise> Just put my macbook air up for sale
<MooDoo> not into it? or just want the monet?
<knightwise> I was using the machine as my linux laptop , but the Chromebook can do all those things too
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<knightwise> and I don't have to worry about it getting nicked
<knightwise> + The MBA is going on 2 years , time to sell it off
<knightwise> morning brobostigon
<MooDoo> knightwise: which chromebook as I was thinking about one of them....
<knightwise> THe nice thing about the chromebook is , i can take it to work with me without thinking about dropping it or having it get stolen from the car
<knightwise> I have the Acer C730 ,
<knightwise> Wrote up a series on the blog about my experiences so far
<knightwise> you might want to read the first article of the series
<brobostigon> morning kn	/win 14
<knightwise> whaw
<knightwise> i think i just sold the MBAir
<knightwise> the add was up like for about 10 minutes
<awilkins> Well, they are a nice bit of gear
<knightwise> true
<knightwise> but their value goes done a bit quicker then the value of a macbook pro
<knightwise> I sold that one after 3 years for 2/3rd of the original price
<MooDoo> woohoo photography backdrop purchased
<Azelphur> lol, I have a pretty funny way of heating my office in the mornings, 2kw wall radiator plus a 2kw space heater plus 1kw of bitcoin mining equipment for total effective heating of 5kw
<Azelphur> go from 15 to 21c in about 5 minutes \o/
<awilkins> Azelphur, Do you make a profit on the bitcoin?
<Azelphur> awilkins: no, but it makes for great subsidised heating, I mostly run during the day and just use the normal heaters to provide that morning boost to bring it up to temperature
<awilkins> I realise this is a bit like asking an oil baron if he thinks petroleum is awesome
<Azelphur> my hardware is old now
<Azelphur> only makes like 20% of what it costs to run it, but hey, that's 20% off heating :)
<awilkins> Yeah, myself I thought the notion of hosted mining was probably better
<awilkins> But I never really got into them
<awilkins> Just kicked myself a bit for not mining a few when they were a few cents apiece
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> AC68U is on offer atm, kinda tempting...spent so much money recently though :/
<Azelphur> but I want a new router for the summer so I can beam wifi onto the beach
<awilkins> My office is freezing, you're tempting me
<awilkins> I don't have a beach, just a cemetary
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I could probably be coaxed into selling mine
<knightwise> Time to reinstall my Macbook Air
<zmoylan-pi> at least these days you can maintain connection to web on multitude of other devices while it's happening
<knightwise> true :)
<knightwise> using shellinabox in combination with Byobu
<knightwise> pretty convenient !
<knightwise> ok , stupid question but .. how do I let my Ubuntu server run a script at startup .. do I just punch it into chrontab @reboot ?
<knightwise> if i'm correct , the @reboot command doesnt work for a non-root user in crontab ?
<ChunkzZ> took 10 damn minutes to start my car this morning, damn UK weather! :(
<penguin42> rather foggy here
<zmoylan-pi> up to 5c now.
<SuperMatt> has anyone got google chrome in their .config/autostart?
<DJones> SuperMatt: Not I
<SuperMatt> thanks for checking. Anyone else?
<DJones> Is it anything to do with the chrome setting to allow it to run in the background so that when click on starter its up & running quicker?
<SuperMatt> yup
<knightwise> it installs the chrome helper by default for quicker boot
<knightwise> at least on a mac
<SuperMatt> I either need to know how to create the .desktop file from inside chrome, or have someone send me a copy
<Azelphur> Nationwide clearly have a good development team, I can check my bank balance on my smartwatch.
<Azelphur> Living in the future, etc \o/
<zmoylan-pi> so muggers can read your watch and see if your worth mugging?
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: uwot xD
<Azelphur> they'd have to ask the watch for your balance, so at that point they'd probably have already got to the whole mugging you stage, and mugging you doesn't get them access to your bank account
<zmoylan-pi> but they can move to the drag the victim to atm stage
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: if that was the strategy, wouldn't they just force you to check using your phone anyway?
<zmoylan-pi> perhaps, but just another way to check and make things prolonged
 * Azelphur shurgs
<Azelphur> I still say the same thing I said when smartphones first came out and everyone said not to buy one because someone will just take it off you
<Azelphur> giving up things out of fear is worse than having them stolen off you
<zmoylan-pi> people have been giving up civil liberties for years :-)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> and I've been sitting here walking around with loads of gadgets and stuff for years, not been mugged yet
<Azelphur> tempted to get insurance :)
<zmoylan-pi> i did have a bag snatched with psion 3c but i don't think they knew there was a psion in the bag
<zmoylan-pi> and it locked down tight so no data would have been accessible
<Azelphur> amusingly if someone stole my phone it'd be real bad for them, has theft recovery stuff embedded in the firmware
<bashrc> It's probably not a good idea to carry very expensive things around (including jewelry, etc). Stick to cheap technology
<zmoylan-pi> and i did have someone walking past about to rob my current phone before he saw that it was a nokia dumb phone and turned away disappointed :-)
<zmoylan-pi> which was a pity as i'd shifted so as to face plant him through bus shelter
<Azelphur> bashrc: see that's the faulty logic I was talking about, rather than getting a few years use out of something that is really useful, you just steal it from yourself by not using it
<Azelphur> I'd rather have my expensive phone stolen than never use/have it
<zmoylan-pi> nah i gave up smartphones as i wanted something with battery life above all.
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: I carry a 12000mAh battery in my coat, that solves my battery problems ;)
<zmoylan-pi> and the nokia does web, email, twitter, irc, ebooks, radio, mp3s...
<bashrc> additionally given the pace of change it makes no sense to invest hevily in any one particular gadget
<zmoylan-pi> and it bounces
<Azelphur> bashrc: that's somewhat true, although don't get caught in the "tomorrow never comes" loop
<bashrc> chances are if you spend a lot of money on one gadget it'll be obsolete in a few years anyhow
<Azelphur> bashrc: you can say the same about anything
<Azelphur> but obsolete doesn't mean useless
<zmoylan-pi> when the technology is moving fast yes, when it's a stalwart like a good swiss army knife, no
<bashrc> not really, because sofas don't change much from year to year
<bashrc> or spoons
<bashrc> but electrical gadgets do
<zmoylan-pi> i loved my nokia n70 but it's 2gb limit on memory cards would annoy me a lot now
<Azelphur> bashrc: sure they do, sofas of today look nothing like the sofas of 10 years ago
<Azelphur> I bet if you had a 10 year old sofa, missus would be whining nonstop at you to get it replaced.
<zmoylan-pi> not if it's a beautiful hand crafted antique
<Azelphur> perhaps :)
<Azelphur> but then you'd be paying more than you would for a modern sofa anyway so it kinda invalidates the whole point
<zmoylan-pi> my sister got hand made custom furniture, silly money but will be passed to her kids when she pops her clogs
<bashrc> you could sink a lot of money and get a top quality sofa. If you didn't abuse it much it would still be useful many years into the future. The same can't be said for gadgets
<Azelphur> bashrc: sure it can
<Azelphur> bashrc: heck, my PC is 4 years old now and I still don't have much motivation to change it.
<zmoylan-pi> if they release the modular mobile phone it might start to happen
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: project ara is coming ;)
<bashrc> my last laptop I had for 7 years
<zmoylan-pi> though i suspect the bus will need to be replaced every few years
<Azelphur> bashrc: so yea, the same can be said for gadgets :)
<bashrc> not really, so there is furniture where I'm living which is probably decades old and still useful
<bashrc> a decades old gadget would not
<zmoylan-pi> house i grew up in had a lot of victorian furniture in good nick.
<Azelphur> heck, up until about a month ago I was still regularly using a Sempron 140, that's like 5 year old tech and it was a bargain bin chip
<zmoylan-pi> i have a telescope in a box somewhere from 1850 that i need to get a leather worker to recover
<Azelphur> bashrc: Pentium 4 is like 15 years old now, could still make use out of a Pentium 4 era machine.
<Azelphur> admittedly technology doesn't last as long as furniture does, but technology ABSOLUTELY DOES remain useful many years into the future
<zmoylan-pi> good technology does rather :-)
<Azelphur> it's pretty hard to buy a piece of technology that doesn't fit that criteria
<zmoylan-pi> when sony and ms turn off their servers when it's no longer profitable their cames consoles will be paper weights
<Azelphur> no argument from me here, consoles are crap
<Azelphur> don't buy them :P
<zmoylan-pi> they don't have to be crap, they could have made it so that the consoles could connect to one another and not need a central server but they want monthly fees
<zmoylan-pi> and from the recent news they aren't using any of that money on security
<Azelphur> nah they're generally crap, compare a console to a PC for gaming, there's an obvious winner.
<Azelphur> both in terms of price and performance
<zmoylan-pi> and anytime a game comes out that allows a pc to play against a console the console players do not do well
<Azelphur> indeed, controllers (usually) aren't very useful
<Azelphur> and whenever they are, a PC can make use of them anyway
<zmoylan-pi> but i'm not against consoles per se.  i like the idea of not having to rebuild my pc everytime i install a game :-)
<Azelphur> uwot
<Azelphur> what do you think the procedure is for installing a game?
<zmoylan-pi> i would point out last time i installed a game on a pc was in 90s.  it was a different time :-)
<Azelphur> zmoylan-pi: these days, you fire up steam, find a game you like, pay for it, steam automatically downloads and installs it for you, you're done.
<zmoylan-pi> my boss looked inside my pc after i installed the original doom and refused to touch it :-D
<Azelphur> and the price of PC games is astronomically lower than console games
<zmoylan-pi> very true, steam has changed things *a lot*
<Azelphur> {_
<Azelphur> :)*
<Azelphur> so yea, you can have nice things is the tl;dr here, technology doesn't randomly become useless after a year xD
<Azelphur> that said I'm tempted to do some upgrades on my machine soon mostly because I'd like to have proper multi monitor support
<awilkins> Multi monitors 4tw
<awilkins> I may get a third
<ali12341> the procedure for installing a game on windows is basically: install game, reinstall game, uninstall all other games, reinstall video driver, install game, uninstall game, wait 6 months for patch that makes it work properly, reinstall game, install patch, reinstall windows, install ame, install patch, give up and buy a console
<awilkins> Well, it used to be
<zmoylan-pi> see that's why i gave up in 90s, thought it had changed since.  but not enough to make me tolerate having windows at home
<awilkins> Even for games where that used to be the case, you can now do   "Download game from GOG.com. Install game. Enjoy game." most of the time
<awilkins> Like Outcast
<awilkins> That was HORRIBLE to install
<awilkins> And get working
<awilkins> I presume it's dead easy now.
<foobarry> chilled monkey brains
<directhex> http://i.imgur.com/qlewmPP.jpg
<foobarry> don't think i need these cds anymore http://i.imgur.com/QUFrUwb.jpg
<DJones> foobarry: You might find somebody will take them off your hands though if they're trying to collect a full set of  release cd's
<foobarry> really? lol
<foobarry> there be weirdos out there
<DJones> :)
<mapito> hi
<foobarry> picasa no longer starts :(
<foobarry> weird
<foobarry> no error
<DJones> Any error running it from terminal?
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> shows splash loading for 3 mins
<DJones> ewww, didn't realise it runs the windows binary through playonlinux
<foobarry> wine
<DJones> Pretty much the same :)
<Azelphur> it probably won't be wine either, it'll probably be crossover (libwine)
<marxjohn1on> has anyone here experienced/solved this problem with shutdown from XBMC/Kodi failing? http://askubuntu.com/questions/566635/shutdown-from-xbmc-kodi-hangs
<foobarry> maybe its due to my low disk space
<foobarry> <1gbn
<marxjohn1on> foobarry: doesn't look like it, plenty of disk space on all partitions
<Azelphur> marxjohn1on: I don't have that issue on 14.10
<mapito> :D
<mapito> just went to 'el pollo loco'
<mapito> heh
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-30
<ShoeGazer> Does anyone know if a preinstalled Windows 8 laptop can be wiped clean and Ubuntu loaded?
<daftykins> wow, stick around.
<m0nkey_> NO IMMEDIATE ANSWER. CLOSE WINDOW.
<m0nkey_> :)
<daftykins> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> drive by questions
<daftykins> pew pew pew
 * zmoylan-pi hands out the nerf in case they show up again
<daftykins> does it launch ubuntu DVDs?
<zmoylan-pi> i did modify a dart to hold a usb drive
<zmoylan-pi> sneakernet speed boost
<daftykins> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> accurate to about 60-70feet
<zmoylan-pi> and made a nerf pistol on desk at work justifiable :-P
<daftykins> ;]
<zmoylan-pi> gets harder when you put the belt fed machine gun nerf on desk... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> just saw this which would allow a shock mounted usb hard drive :-P http://ultrafactsblog.com/post/106573106761/fact-source-follow-ultrafacts-for-more-facts#_=_
<mapps> hi night owls
<daftykins> heya
<mapps> just startd watching the closer
<mapps> was watching major crime..but cits a spinoff of the closer
<mapps> so decided id watch that first;]
<mapps> night
<daftykins> o/
<foobarry> frosty start
<popey> yeah
<foobarry> anyone else got a lot of condensation on their house windows atm?
<foobarry> unsure if its because of the new extension still drying out
<popey> nope
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> 4yr old son off to get his glasses :(
<foobarry> told him i would get an eye test too as i'd never had one
<knightwise> morning everyone
<foobarry> so, you've been working in ebola treatment centre and they just let you back in the coutnry without quarantine?
<foobarry> "He said the Government was doing "absolutely everything it needs to" to keep the public safe"
<foobarry> yeah right
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> !upgrade
<lubotu3> For upgrading, see the instructions at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes - see also http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/upgrade
<dutchie> morning
<popey> hello
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> Greetings from my Raspberry Pi !
<penguin42> ah, something useful to do with a pi
<foobarry> shrink yourself and live inside it?
<knightwise> yep , not quite use what I was going to do with it .. so I installed debian on it and am gonna try using it as a desktop for a day or two
<knightwise> Indeed ! I have shrunken to rediculously small proportions and am now inside my Pi kicking the transistors and pooping on the sdcard
<brobostigon> raspbian?
<foobarry> i hate that programme called The Voice but i love the advert with the raven
<knightwise> brobostigon: correct
<penguin42> knightwise: That explains a lot about sdcards
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> foobarry: we don't have cable tv anymore. One of the joys of that is that we don't have that kinda crap :)
<foobarry> freeview?
<knightwise> foobarry: Netflix + Plex + popcorn-time + youtube + iplayer (via the Hola Proxy)
<popey> ooh, reminds me, got a 32GB SDCard for xmas, need to put it in the dashcam!
<knightwise> Oh popey :) Are you an amateur dashcam filmer ?
<popey> ya
<knightwise> My sister in law has a little van and a dashcam
<knightwise> I call it 'the bang bus'
<knightwise> because she keeps bumping into things :)
<popey> knightwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXWQ5GAr02A
<knightwise> holdon , installing a browser that can run Chrome
<popey> youtube-dl â»
 * knightwise loves youtube-Dl :) 
 * knightwise has sung its praise in a podcast many times ! 
<Azelphur> youtube-dl supports dash audio now which is awesome, you can download just the audio.
<foobarry> can an otg cable allow me to plug a keyboard/mouse into my tablet?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: yes
<Azelphur> foobarry: depends what tablet.
<foobarry> hp douchepad
<MartijnVdS> Android tablets generally support it
<MartijnVdS> so do Windows tablets
<foobarry> wonder if any games support keyboard entry
<foobarry> some would be more fun with kb/mouse
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: some support joysticks
<foobarry> brother in law picked up a nexus 7 for Â£80 refurb
<popey> 2012 or 2013?
<foobarry> 2013
<popey> not bad.
<popey> 2013 is an okay tablet
<foobarry> from the currys auction shop
<MartijnVdS> Knuth! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v678Em6qyzk
<popey> that was excellent
<zmoylan-pi> how many cyclists are we going to see bounce magnificently over windscreen? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> sorry, looking back at popeys dashcam link
<popey> hah
<knightwise> hey everyone
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: are you on your Pi ?
<zmoylan-pi> my pi is on 24x7
<zmoylan-pi> i just happen to connect to it when i'm at home
<knightwise> I'm running from my Pi Aswell :)
 * knightwise gives zmoylan-pi a pi-five !
<knightwise> what do you mostly use your pi for zmoylan-pi
 * zmoylan-pi keeps meaning to buy new pi to use a a) an ip camera in garden to look at kitties, foxes, magpies and other critturs or b) a homemade laptop
<zmoylan-pi> but the pi in kitchen is also used for rss using newsbeuter console based rss reader
<knightwise> so basically its your headless command line machine you ssh into ?
<zmoylan-pi> ypu
<zmoylan-pi> yup*
<knightwise> Cool. I might use it for that to , but I do have 2 headless vm's running on my home servers to tunnel into so .. using the Pi for that would be a little redundant.
<zmoylan-pi> i was looking at ways over weekend to maybe start talking to it from outside the house via sms to automate things. email would make the response time too long unless i drop refresh time to 1 minute
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: you can sent it a tweet
<knightwise> ah :) it seems that they got Quake3 working on a pi LOL
<zmoylan-pi> thought of that too and i did set up ttytter on it but i like the idea of sms as i'd only use it very occasionly
<knightwise> But how do you get your pi to read an sms ?
<zmoylan-pi> there are a number of sms related bit of software in the repositories of raspian. will just have to plough through them to find one that a) works and b) does what i want 3) when i want :-)
<knightwise> but you have to hook up a phone to the pi then ?
<zmoylan-pi> well i suspect some of them use online web service which may or may not work on irish networks which would complicate things
<knightwise> aha , that is also true.
<knightwise> ok :) part of my retro-pi project : Step 1 install and run Quake3 :)
<zmoylan-pi> then when i wrote a sms server in 90s there was the whole get it working and then a week later the phone company stopped delivering messages from my phone to another phone as they labelled it spam no matter how much is said that it wasn't
<knightwise> Damn !
<zmoylan-pi> they wanted me to pay more per message on different service to get a better cut
<zmoylan-pi> but they didn't say that for 2-3 weeks while i tried to debug what went wrong
<knightwise> crap !
<knightwise> thats a bummer dide
<knightwise> just logged into the pi irc channel
<knightwise> and downloading quake3 :)
<knightwise> Playing this on the pi would be awesome too :p
<knightwise> I started my fps gaming career on that game
<NET||abuse> hi dudes,, got my odroid-c1 today!!
<NET||abuse> quite excited.. but have to figure out if i can get latest versions of stuff onto it. they build an 14.04.1 image which i presume is just a case of do inplace upgrade to 14.10 if you want, or otherwise just add xbmc rep's
<penguin42> NET||abuse: You might find they've added some special kernel builds and stuff to do with how to flash upgrades, so just check for special stuff like that first
<czajkowski> aloha
<penguin42> hey
<ChunkzZ> sup
<safiyyah> I am having trouble with my audio settings please anyone. I can hear (from the speakers) but there is no input via Skype or sound recorder
<safiyyah> Also I have tested it with a spare
<penguin42> safiyyah: Sometimes you have to look for just getting the right slider on the audio settings for input
<penguin42> safiyyah: The other thing is are you sure you've got the mic in the right input on your PC (if it's an external mic)
<safiyyah> penguin42,  I think that it thinks the webcame is the microphone
<safiyyah> because it is accepting the sound from the webcam
<safiyyah> oh I got it!!!!
<safiyyah> yeiii
<ChunkzZ> what was it?
<safiyyah> Very stupid problem, it was muted!
<safiyyah> I wasn't used to the interface
<safiyyah> and it didn't seem muted
<safiyyah> I am on Xubuntu
<penguin42> ah well, if it's muted :-)
<ChunkzZ> lol
<ChunkzZ> best OS for a desktop other than ubuntu?
<ChunkzZ> need something that's fast for an ssd but not too hungry on ram...
<safiyyah> Xubuntu is running super smooth
<safiyyah> on my SSD
<ChunkzZ> hmm tried that last night, wasn't a big fan.
<safiyyah> sorry am back trying to fix the keyboard now
<safiyyah> I found the bug on launchpad and there is a fix, only I can't work out how to install the fix
<safiyyah> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/281993
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 281993 in Linux "[intrepid] REGRESSION: multimedia keys no longer working" [Low,Confirmed]
<ali1234> that bug is 6 years old
<ali1234> the fix is already included
<ali1234> if it doesnt work report a new bug
<safiyyah> okay thanks
<ali1234> so i've got a problem
<ali1234> client swears blind their web server is returning malware links, but i can't reproduce it, nor can i find any malware on the server that could be responsible
<penguin42> ali1234: Inserted by their browser or ISP ?
<ali1234> two different users reported seeing it
<ali1234> on different ISPs and computers
<ali1234> they all work from home
<ali1234> they could all have the same malware i suppose
<ali1234> i thought it might be this: http://www.welivesecurity.com/2013/04/26/linuxcdorked-new-apache-backdoor-in-the-wild-serves-blackhole/
<popey> seems more likely
<ali1234> but i checked the httpd md5sum and it matches
<penguin42> ali1234: I was reading something about a .pac attack that gives different pac configs to different hosts, only targets some; but they were only targetting banks and facebook
<ali1234> so unless the server is totally rooted, or they made a collision...
<ali1234> i'll check the sha...
<ali1234> nope, checks out
<ali1234> there's also a "nyet.htm" declaring server hacked by some hackers
<ali1234> however, i know exactly how they did that, and their exploit actually half failed
<ali1234> and that wouldn't have allowed them to take over the httpd and insert links
<ali1234> that's also a different subdomain running totally different software
<penguin42> ali1234: Have you got a dump of the html that the customer is receiving?
<ali1234> no. customer is not smart and didn't save it
<ali1234> they just sent me an email with "we're getting links to adultfriendfinder on our webpage"
<penguin42> I'd be happy to try in a VM if you want
<foobarry> can i do direct debit/recurring payment to a foreign bank account?
<ali1234> my plan currently is to do that
<ali1234> however, i would like some way to automate it... cos you never know where the bad link will show up
<ali1234> apparently it only happens once, just like with the cdorked thing
<ali1234> foobarry: i think it depends on the country
<penguin42> ali1234: Well if it's like that cdorked one then it's saying it's in memory, nothing on disk
<foobarry> seems they want Â£10 per payment
<penguin42> foobarry: It might help if you use a bank that has international branches, but just remember that banks are mostly out to annoy you
<webpigeon> ali1234: are you using a CMS? if you are they could inject rubbish into the db/htaccess/files can cause issues
<ali1234> yes, that's how they uploaded the nyet.htm, however they couldn't modify htaccess so nobody ever saw it
<webpigeon> What CMS is it? we had someone modify the theme files for joomla which did something simliar to what your describing
<webpigeon> images which were not really images and the like
<ali1234> it's joomla
<ali1234> and i patched the one where they can upload images that are really scripts ages ago
<webpigeon> we tracked ours back to a joomla admin who had a stupid password, the attacker used a script to upload and extract a .zip file which thought it was a theme
<ali1234> the website that is doing the weird URLs isn't joomla
<webpigeon> fair enouph
<webpigeon> checked that there isn't another .htaccess in a sub directory of the comprimised site?
<ali1234> none of the files in the htdocs directories have been modified, except the addition of that one nyet.htm in a different subdomain
<penguin42> ali1234: it could be purely in memory, difficult to tell unless you go hunting through memory
<penguin42> ali1234: You could dig through memory of the apaches but it wouldn't be easy even if it's still there
<ali1234> well it must still be there
<penguin42> ali1234: anyway depending how bad your box is owned (if it is) then you may have hidden files that you wouldn't be able to see
<ali1234> file mem
<ali1234> well the inserted URL is definitely a onimiki one
<ali1234> this is looking bad
<daftykins> what's that?
<ali1234> read this: http://www.welivesecurity.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/operation_windigo.pdf
<ali1234> server shows the symptoms of this botnet - it serves up redirects very rarely, using the 23 character v2 DGA resolution as described
<ali1234> however there are no signs it has been compromised at all except for the outward ones
<ali1234> which likely means the malware authors fixed all the "bugs" that made it easy to detect
<penguin42> ali1234: Why would there be - if it's in memory you shouldn't be able to tell easily
<ali1234> according to the PDF it is not in memory
<ali1234> they also list a few other methods for detecting it, but none of them work
<ali1234> but this server is almost certainly compromised
<ali1234> i just can't prove it
<daftykins> :/
<daftykins> definitely not what you want at this time of year
<daftykins> or any
<penguin42> ali1234: They not showing up in ipcs -m ?
<ali1234> there is nothing much interesting in there, no
<ali1234> there are some shared regions but they are owned by root not apache
<ali1234> and they aren't the right size
<ali1234> but who knows?
<ali1234> nothing conclusive anyway
<penguin42> ali1234: Anything large ?
<ali1234> not really no
<penguin42> ali1234: in ipcs -m
<ali1234> half a meg
<ali1234> and nothing with 666
<ali1234> wait no, biggest is 16kb
<penguin42> ali1234: I guess you could look at /proc/pid/maps of your apaches that you think are serving it, but it's not going to be an easy one to find
<penguin42> ali1234: Did you try that 'yara' thing ?
<ali1234> i tried to cat /proc/<pid>/mem on the httpd process
<penguin42> ali1234: https://github.com/eset/malware-ioc/tree/master/windigo  the yara stuff on there for Linux/onimiki ?
<ali1234> and it said no such process
<ali1234> yes i tried ssh -G
<ali1234> and the favicon.iso thing
<ali1234> server doesn't run named
<penguin42> ali1234: They seem to have more specific rules for detecting the network traffic
<ali1234> i can't sniff the box from outside, it's hosted
<ali1234> and if you sniff from inside it knows and turns off all comms
<penguin42> ali1234: Time to get your hosting provider to warm you up a fresh image then
<daftykins> hmm, tubes went down
<penguin42> daftykins: It's the ice
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> we haven't dipped below 4 deg C down here yet i think
<ali1234> "Most of the indicators below no longer work."
#ubuntu-uk 2014-12-31
<ali1234> hmm... i got the malicious redirect to happen
<ali1234> server is definitely compromised then
<penguin42> ali1234: so assuming you're about to reinstall the question then is 'how'
<ali1234> not my problem luckily
<ali1234> this is one of those legacy red hat servers i was talking about the other day
<penguin42> ali1234: Well more I mean 'how did it get infected'
<ali1234> yeah, again, not my problem
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah, how legacy?
<ali1234> CentOS release 5.11 (Final)
<penguin42> that should still have security updates I think
<ali1234> it does
<ali1234> it's "legacy" in the sense that the web developers who made the site installed it all and then quit the web dev business, leaving the whole server unsupported
<ali1234> it's a VM hosted... somewhere, with "sort of" support
<penguin42> it seems the safest way from their point of view :-)
<ali1234> various sysadmin log into it all the time and do things
<ali1234> nobody has any idea who they are but they seem to be logging in from the hosting company IPs
<ali1234> it also auto updates and also has puppet and virtualmin installed
<ali1234> so pretty much nobody understands how it works and the thing was well overdue a reinstall anyway
<penguin42> nod, still worrying when you don't know how
<ali1234> my guess would be the hosting company is infected and their sysadmins are spreading it when they ssh into servers and do stuff
<ali1234> either that or someone bruteforced root password, which is still enabled
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> ugh
<daftykins> root password :(
<daftykins> tum-te-tum
<mapps> hi ho
<daftykins> mornin'
<daftykins> were you back over for Christmas, mapps?
<daftykins> two of you 0o
<mapp> ;]
<daftykins> were you back over for Christmas, mapps?
<mapp> nop
<daftykins> ah, get up to much on the day itself?
<mapp> off xmas evew
<mapp> worked xmas day..off tomorrow
<daftykins> \o/
<mapp> or 2night owever you look at it
<mapp> ;]
<mapp> you do much?
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> nah, quiet one with lunch at the parents with gran over
<daftykins> endured shocking broadcast TV until 11ish then got home :>
<zmoylan-pi> broadcast tv, does that still exist? :-)
<mapp> holiday tv sucks eh
<mapp> good stuff gets put on a break
<mapp> for dross
<mapp> eastenders xmas special..boring films
<mapp> ugh
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: apparently, only see it when i go to my olds or at friends occasionally
<daftykins> though i would like to see news again, so maybe i'll make up a satellite dish coax extension cable in the new year
<zmoylan-pi> i really should thank tv for making me give up tv
<zmoylan-pi> *reality tv
<daftykins> oh lawd
<daftykins> old girl put on the bloody dancing one, what a pile of tosh
<zmoylan-pi> there's a reality tv show that isn't poo?
<daftykins> nah i'm saying it's terrible XD
<mapp> sleep time
<mapp> buh bye
<mapp> well try to..got a cold;[
<mapp> gonna take some night nurse;]
<daftykins> :O i had one recently, pretty well recovered now
<daftykins> stuff tends to kick my ass but then i come back fighting :D
<daftykins> i'm like a Hollywood film 0o
<mapp> ;]
<daftykins> anyway take care sir and happy new year if i don't catch you o/
<mapp> same mate..il prob be back before its 2015..just sleep gym then irc;p
<mapp> hopefully this night nurse will help me sleep HATE it when i lie there trying to sleep for hours=[
<daftykins> *nod*
<foobarry> another frosty day in london
<bashrc> definitely cold
<bashrc> researching laptops. My current laptop is fine except that the screen is failing. Sooner or later it's going to fail fully
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: Which is more important, quality, price or performance?
<TwistedLucidity> bashrc: And if it's just the screen, they can be replaced.
<foobarry> +1 for fix
<foobarry> maybe its just a Â£5 part
<bashrc> TwistedLuci: I'm looking for maximum software freedom. No binary blobs
<bashrc> I'll search for screens
<bashrc> for 2015 I may try going all the way and trying to run all free software. I already do on the server, it's really just graphics and wifi that are needed on a laptop
<bashrc> maybe I could grow a beard too :)
<foobarry> lcd inverter problem?
<foobarry> bashrc: what is the actual problem with the screen
<bashrc> especially in cold weather (like now) on boot the screen rapidly goes completely white. After it warms up, about 20 mins later, everything is fine
<bashrc> over time this behavior seems to be getting worse, and it also appears to be unrelated to the operating system
<foobarry> this was like all tvs in the 80s :)
<bashrc> heh, I don't think so
<bashrc> it's almost as if the liquid crystals are disabled by cold weather
<bashrc> having an effective boot time of 20-30 mins is getting irritating, and I think one day the screen is just going to remain white indefinitely
<ali1234> does it slowly change colour or does it flicker?
<bashrc> it flickers, weird colours, some white some normal, then after about 20-30mins it's ok
<ali1234> you probably need a whole new motherboard then
<bashrc> yeah I was thinking it might not just be the screen, could be graphics hardware or the physical interface between the board and the screen
<bashrc> also this happens immediately at power on, even before the OS has booted, and I've used various OS's on this laptop, so I don't think it's software related
<foobarry> it could be solder
<foobarry> able
<foobarry> eg http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T61-and-prior-T-series-ThinkPad/Laptop-screen-needs-to-warm-up/td-p/1031961
<ali1234> yes you could try reflowing the motherboard
<ali1234> if i do "rsync -avz user@host:/path/" where do the files go?
<ali1234> answer: nowhere, it just lists the files
<bashrc> foobarry: yes the symptoms are very similar to that, so it could be something like something coming unsoldered from the board. After it warms and expands it makes contact again
<foobarry> http://therestartproject.org/
<foobarry> lots of people around who can help
<foobarry> better to repair otherwise good things rather than send rare metals to landfill </preach>
<foobarry> http://ifixit.org/blog/6882/why-i-drilled-holes-in-my-macbook-pro-and-put-it-in-the-oven/
<awilkins> I had an Amiga you had to warm up with a hair dryer before the keyboard worked
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<NET||abuse> hi guys. i'm having a consistent issue crop up every once in a while.
<NET||abuse> the wifi just drops the connection, the select wifi doesn't list any id's
<foobarry> anything in dmesg?
<NET||abuse> too much noise in there.
<NET||abuse> to get back online i disabled and re-enabled wifi.
<NET||abuse> but inbetween i also pluggedin my android phone and enabled tethering to google for things
<NET||abuse> just too much activity to debug.
<foobarry> grep
<foobarry> NET||abuse: by all means dump your dmesg to pastebin and we can check for you
<foobarry> do a private paste though just in case
<ali1234> i've got a samsung charging dock for galaxy S3 which just has a microusb on it
<ali1234> it work with some things but not others, why?
<ali1234> for example i can plug my nexus 7 in to it and it charges
<ali1234> but moto g does not
<foobarry> current?
<foobarry> moto g requires min current?
<foobarry> i have one which doesn't charge well on low powered charger < 1a
<ali1234> no, it works fine on the same cable
<foobarry> hm
<awilkins> Does it have data cables?
<awilkins> A forum post I'm looking at says "try rebooting the phone while connected to a laptop with the USB cable"
<Guest46054> ERROR: Can't change MAC: interface up or not permission: Device or resource busy
<bujji> ERROR: Can't change MAC: interface up or not permission: Device or resource b
<bujji> popey:?
<bujji> hello any one over there.
<penguin42> bujji: Start by saying how you got your problem
<bujji> penguin42: macchanger --mac=01:23:45:67:89:AB wlan0
<penguin42> bujji: OK, so read the error message - what's it telling you?
<bujji> penguin42:ERROR: Can't change MAC: interface up or not permission: Device or resource b
<penguin42> bujji: No, I can see the text; *YOU* read it and think about what it's saying
<bujji> penguin42:device or resource busy
<penguin42> bujji: It's telling you 2 things that might cause the erro
<penguin42> r
<bujji> penguin42:?
<bujji> penguin42:it gave me perinent mac and current mac,nothing has changed
<penguin42> bujji: It's telling you 1) 'interface up'  or  2) ' not permission'
<penguin42> bujji: So, have you got permission? Is the interface up?
<bujji> penguin42:dont know
<penguin42> bujji: Well, what do you do when you don't have permissions normally?
<bujji> penguin42: I logged in as a root
<penguin42> bujji: OK, so if you're doing it at root then it's probably not permissions; so ok what about the other part 'interface up' - is your wireless interface setup and connected?
<bujji> penguin42:even i tried with eth0 also same error.
<penguin42> how about you answer the question I asked?
<bujji> penguin42:?
<bujji> penguin42:are you there?
<bujji> penguin42:ERROR: Can't change MAC: interface up or not permission: Cannot assign requested address
<foobarry> lol
<bujji> foobarry:why?
<bujji> foobarry:?
<bujji> anyone please..
<bujji> popey:?
<popey> penguin42: still getting on well with the OnePlus?
<penguin42> popey: Yeh, I've not got very far in getting a newer kernel on it
<penguin42> popey: Android kernels are even worse than I imagined they would be
<popey> hah
<penguin42> popey: I'm trying to merge a 3.6.x at the moment; it's got very slim chances
<zmoylan-pi> if it were easy the sense of achievement if you do it wouldn't be as great :-)
<penguin42> popey: Classic example; it's got a hack (for the Find7 specifically) in the ext4 code to do vfat mount like setting of uid/gid - I don't know why though
<popey> ugh
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Yeh, I'd assumed I'd manage to find a kernel that was close to it that I could work with, but the closest tag I can find to the find7 cm-11 kernel is git diff |wc -l 800k lines different
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: and then you find bits of it are based on code-aurora's kernel tree that has tags like M8960AAAAANLYA100709A  and LNX.LA.3.5.2.2.c3-00210-8x74.0     - and the second of those's Makefile says it's actually a 3.4.0 kernel
<diddledan> http://static.fsf.org/nosvn/FSF30-video/FSF_30_720p.webm <-- watch it fullscreen with headphones - the audio is impressive
<foobarry> what is it diddledan ?
<diddledan> foobarry: it's a video extolling how amazing the gnu is, but I just like it because the audio was immersive on my headphones
<zmoylan-pi> it's slow gnus day :-P
<foobarry> 16GB byteStor 45MB/s SDHC UHS-I CL10 Memory Card
<foobarry> Â£5.89
<zmoylan-pi> you wonder about the reliability when they get that cheap
<zmoylan-pi> when i spent Â£50 on a box of floppies in 80s i knew they'd last years, when i spent a tennr they lasted 5 minutes
 * penguin42 has never heard of byteStor so wouldn't trust it
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: That just was never true of the 1.44MB ones in the early 90s though
<zmoylan-pi> the floppy disks i installed win95 from _twice_ only ever worked once
<foobarry> plume have wrecked their once excellent app
<zmoylan-pi> i think it's more that twitter has moved the api on them
<foobarry> they are displaying full screen ads every few seconds
<foobarry> thats how to wreck a userbase
<foobarry> who will not move to the paid version either
<foobarry> ugh tv licence 145Â£
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a full screen ad in app i installed a few days ago.  have update apps switched to off since last year as functionality seems to degrade per upgrade per app
<aptanet> foobarry: I was going to say I hadn't noticed, but then realised I'm using the paid for version
<foobarry> its a bit pricey
<foobarry> if i could guarantee i would continue to use the app then it would be fine
<foobarry> tweetcaster users complaining of same issue
<zmoylan-pi> puts me off android more than a specific app
<foobarry> which bit?
<zmoylan-pi> full screen adverts, it's their ad platform enabling that
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> its a bad move
<foobarry> or something they  need to fix somehow?
<aptanet> yes, it does look to be the most expensive app I've purchased - nearly 2 years ago now so not a fortune overall
<foobarry> i can fix by cyanogen + adaway but dont wanna wipe my whole phone
<zmoylan-pi> i go out and buy a piece of hardware and they want to shove ads in my face, well that just makes me annoyed
<foobarry> adaway requires root but root is tricky with moto g i hear
<foobarry> then i won't see any ads, so google/devs  lose over all
<foobarry> rooting stops OTA updates so think i will wait till lollipoop
<foobarry> the problem is..how to backup phone if you don't have root?
<foobarry> titaniumbackips are so unsatisfactory
<zmoylan-pi> foia request to cia? :-)
<foobarry> http://android.stackexchange.com/questions/28296/full-backup-of-non-rooted-devices
<diddledan> I found a bug in drupal today :-) https://www.drupal.org/node/2400471
<foobarry> yay?
<diddledan> yes, yey, because I gave them a patch to fix it, too :-p
<zmoylan-pi> so you potentially fixed a bug in drupal, a much bigger achievment
<foobarry> http://www.zdnet.com/article/google-discloses-unpatched-windows-vulnerability/
<penguin42> oops
<penguin42> oh, he did a 90 day warning
<diddledan> they say it's not clear whether he actually told microsoft tho
<penguin42> well there's no point in him doing a 90 day warning without telling them
<zmoylan-pi> he sent an email to billgates@hotmail.com? :-)
<foobarry> they are competitors
<foobarry> i wonder if MS would do the same?
<foobarry> no
<foobarry> still, don't be a richard , as they say
<penguin42> I'm sure they would have filed it with MS
<zmoylan-pi> it's the i.t. industry, it's richards as far as the eye can see :-/
<foobarry> the richard recursion algorithm
<zmoylan-pi> it's richards all the way down...
<diddledan> roger the support guy. he's nice.
<diddledan> and all the many richards in the support centre, as you allude.
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> long day working
<DJones> For the London fireworks for new year,I wonder if the organisers attach rockets to the cars on the London eye and turn it into giant catherine wheel
<mapp> tired
<mapp> wanna have a nap but then il be too tired to go out
<mapp> grmpf
<daftykins> ;]
<penguin42> mapp: Won't you be less tired after a nap - or isn't that how naps are supposed to work?
<DJones> diddledan: Was that the wrong channel
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> i'm sure there's a potential child's rhyme that can be made out of mapp napping
<diddledan> DJones: yeah. *smacky forehead*
<diddledan> I saw "ubuntu" and assumed I left it on the right channel
<daftykins> so 'The Net' eh? i remember she smacks a CRT off a nurses station counter in that one
<daftykins> she gets a bit ragey
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> haven't got to that bit yet
<daftykins> hmm i see that Panorama doc about Apple is still available on yonder iPlayer
<diddledan> ooh, that sounds like an interesting docu
 * diddledan goes to find it
<daftykins> hah, it starts on Fatboy Slim then goes into Daft Punk
<daftykins> classic :D
<diddledan> aah, it's the one about their "shocking" working conditions
<daftykins> yep and children mining
<daftykins> hrmm now which system do i have get_iplayer on 0o
<diddledan> lol
<mapp> but
<mapp> often afer a small nap i feel more tired
<mapp> like 1/2hr naps
<daftykins> mmk apparently it's not a VM on here 0o
<daftykins> lol @ "Zaphod mode" in the intel driver, that's amusing
<daftykins> classic HHGTTG reference
<mapp> just watched the guvnors..another rubbish football hooligan film
<mapp> how people love these films is beyond me
<zmoylan-pi> it has football in it
<mapp> totally mug
<mapp> only one team that matters
<mapp> ;]
<daftykins> is that the one that doesn't play?
<daftykins> 'cause then i'd agree
<mapp> heh
<penguin42> daftykins: Zaphod mode has been in X from back in the Sun days
<daftykins> penguin42: hehe :D neat
<daftykins> hmm, fix a puncture or just transfer the lights from one to another
<daftykins> the lazy option is mighty tempting ;)
<daftykins> huzzah, light swap is far easier :P
<mapp> off out now
<mapp> fireworks at casemates square (gib)
<mapp> hopefully will be good
<mapp> happy new year all..hopefully 2015 will be a good one..catch you all later
<mapp> :D
<daftykins> o/
<daftykins> enjoy
<mapp> 1hr17 into the drop with james gandilfini arghh gotta finish it later
<mapp> seems decent
<daftykins> James Gandolfini, from The Sopranos? daym
<mapp> yea
<mapp> was obc done before he died
<mapp> mustve been his last film
<daftykins> =[
<daftykins> right i best shower and get on out to my mates
<daftykins> jeez, this new year marks 19 years since i've had these mates since secondary school
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-01
<ChunkzZ> happy new year UK users!
<penguin42> ChunkzZ: Happy new year ChunkzZ
<ChunkzZ> now time to hit the UK January sales! lol :)
<penguin42> hehe they started on boxing day
<ChunkzZ> meh, I'm lazy. gotta do it online!
<penguin42> hey I made my 1st sale purchase on the 24th - online
<ChunkzZ> HA
<penguin42> (the fact they screwed it up, and didn't deliver it until about the 30th when it should have been instore on the 27th is a different matter)
<diddledan> I guess we're now in the future?\
<penguin42> give me my flying car!
<diddledan> hoverboards
<diddledan> according to iron sky: 1. "Doc" and Marty arrive from the past, the Hoverboard becomes a hit among the youth and Jaws 19 is released. 2. The aliens attack the Earth. X-Com is activated to save mankind. 3. The Union Aerospace Corporation is founded, leading to the tragic events that lead to opening a teleport to Hell. 4. Arnold Schwarzenegger fights Satan and WINS! 5. The Small War - during which most of mankind's nuclear weapons are being used
<diddledan>  - will be fought.
<penguin42> diddledan: Don't worry, next year we'll have to worry about the NEXUS-6 models
<diddledan> oh god
<mapp> jesus christ
<mapp> gojnna be one of those nights eh
<daftykins> which one?
<mapp> well who knows
<mapp> the usual
<mapp> todays a special day for me btw
<mapp> i have a drink problem sure
<mapp> but my dad and sister dont
<mapp> they went to the crematoroium:(
<mapp> to put flowes on my mums plaque
<daftykins> ah right, go ok?
<mapp> im always alrigjht:)
<daftykins> a friend had to get a new headstone for his parents grave a bit ago as it'd been trashed by kids or something
<daftykins> :/
<mapp> yea see it suoer sucks
<mapp> i figure i be done by the time im not ok
<mapp> dont get onn with my dad or my sister
<daftykins> no? not even for the remote laptop fixing? :D
<daftykins> 17 minutes to new year #3
<mapp> na
<mapp> thats life
<mapp> we dont get on
<daftykins> there's new year for central time 'muricans as well now
<daftykins> so that's 3 new years i've seen ;)
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<bashrc> g'day
<knightwise> hey everyone ! :)
<penguin42> hey
<knightwise> hey penguin42 how are you dude
<penguin42> good good, HNY
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> Same to you dude :)
<knightwise> hey brobostigon ! hny
<knightwise> hmmm... trying to get pimusicbox to work
<knightwise> Cant find the .img file on the site of the developer so i'm going over to the github site.
<knightwise> but I have no idea where to get the .img file
<knightwise> ah .. wait. I think i found it.
<knightwise> there is a "make image script"
<knightwise> cle
<knightwise> sorry , wrong window
<brobostigon> :)
 * penguin42 wonders what the electricity usage of appliances is between cold and warm weather
<knightwise> penguin42: higher i presume
<penguin42> knightwise: Yes, I'm just looking at the graphs on my electricity suppliers site; they say I'm using about another 10kWh/day in December compared with July and it's not obvious where from since I use gas for heating; I don't think the lighting adds upto more than a kW/h or 2
<knightwise> unlikely ... but heating and light consumption does go up in the winter
<knightwise> also , people spend more time indoors , thus activate more appliances
<penguin42> right, but my heating won't make much of a change to my electricity bill
<knightwise> depends what kind of heating you have ? Gas ?  Petrol ? Electric ?
<penguin42> gas
<knightwise> should not make a big difference then
<knightwise> other appliances use the same ammount of power no matter the outside temperature (i presume)
<penguin42> well, I was wondering about things like washing machines and dishwashers; they may need more power if the input water is colder and if the room is a bit colder
<penguin42> it might also be that we tend to have more hot meals in the winter and hence the electric oven is on more, but it seems hmm
<knightwise> yeah , but its not THAT big of a difference , its not like your machine is in the garden ?
<knightwise> THere , just ordered a usb gamecontroller for my raspberry pi
<penguin42> right, although the  water input temperature maybe from the mains
<knightwise> that is true , so that temp might be a bit lower indeed
<foobarry> surrey version of the run, hide, tell poster http://i.imgur.com/DS0fnJz.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> i think putting up poster to tell people what to do in those situations is allowing the shallow end of gene pool to hang around
<mapp> yay
<mapp> spurs5-3
<mapp> :)
<daftykins> did anyone find a solution as to what's up with get_iplayer at the moment?
<czajkowski> I am a tad baffled. clean install. installed flash from adobe site and done updates but yet on some sites it keeps saying I need to install flash, not sure if it's lack of flash or chromium being a pain
<zmoylan-pi> i've been getting that a few times in last 2 weeks or so
<czajkowski> also on some drop down boxes on chromium they are not visable, no issues on FF #I just don't like FF as my main browser
<zmoylan-pi> i use qupzilla, midori as browsers
<popey> yo
<ujjain> Happy New year popey and #ubuntu-uk!
<ujjain> I have a question about the English language, I seem unable to master it. Â¨Happy New Year!! My new year's resolution is adding some more certifications after RHCE. What is a more important certification for a DevOps Engineer? Puppet Professional or MySQL Database Administrator?Â¨ does this obviously show that I am not a native Englander?
<ali1234> u wot m8?
<ujjain> Does my English in that phrase betray my English often doesnÂ´t sound very natural?
<foobarry> looks fine
<foobarry> i would probably write
<popey> I would have abbreviated "What is a more" to "What's a more" but that's all.
<ujjain> I think Google translate is better than me at sounding natural.
<ujjain> Happy New Year. My New Year's resolution is to achieve some additional certifications after passing RHCE. What is a more important certification for a DevOps Engineer? Puppet Professional or MySQL Database Administrator?
<ujjain> that sounds pretty good translated from Dutch compared to mine.
<ujjain> WhatÂ´s < right.
<foobarry> My new year's resolution is to get some more certs in addition to the RHCE. What would be a more important cert for a devops engineer to get? Puppet Pro or Mysql DB Admin?
<foobarry> sounds very formal, unless you want to be formal
<foobarry> sorry, quite formal, not very format
<zmoylan-pi> it would depend if it were in written communication or verbal communication a fair bit
<foobarry> does anyone have a leapfrog reader for their kids?
<foobarry> opinions?
<popey> nope
<popey> never heard of them
<ali1234> why is my fail2ban failing2ban attackers?
<ali1234> 2014-12-28 06:25:04,457 fail2ban.server : INFO   Changed logging target to /var/log/fail2ban.log for Fail2ban v0.8.11
<ali1234> is my entire fail2ban.log
<zmoylan-pi> isn't the problem with fail2ban if the attacker uses multiple ip addresses?
<ali1234> the attackers aren't using multiple IPs
<penguin42> ali1234: It works by parsing various log files doesn't it - is it parsing the right ones?
<ali1234> one IP tried to brute force ssh root password for three days
<ali1234> yes it is parsing auth.log
<penguin42> mismatch in format?
<ali1234> Dec 28 07:25:38 headfuzz sshd[12626]: Failed password for root from 60.173.12.98 port 22759 ssh2
<ali1234> an example failed login, there's like 300000000000 of them
<ali1234> 844 to be specific
<ali1234> 8 per minute
<ali1234> i am using the filters that come with the ubuntu package
<ali1234> ah there's a tool to check
<ali1234> according to fail2ban-regex there's 282000 matching lines in auth.log however nobody ever got banned
<penguin42> some type of timeout thing; because those are old?
<ali1234> every time an IP is banned it should show up in the log
<ali1234> three retries in 10 minutes should ban by default
<penguin42> because that machine has been owned already and it's disabled somehow?
<ali1234> seems unlikely, why would you turn it off after you have control?
<foobarry> its not checking the right log?
<foobarry> or its using iptables instead of ufw or firewalld?
<foobarry> fail2ban notifies if its baned someone though i seem to remember
<ali1234> read the scrollback :)
<foobarry> admittedly i use it on centos and wroks all the time
<ali1234> i see others reporting the same thing
<ali1234> i'm going to bug report this
<penguin42> that's a pretty nasty bug - can you tell us the bug number when you do
<ujjain> thanks foobarry, that helped a lot. I hope some day to speak English like the British. Although most of my friends in London are foreigners too.
<zmoylan-pi> so you want to have the accent of the villan in a hollywood movie... :-)
<ali1234> someone want to try attacking my server to see if it bans you?
 * zmoylan-pi puts down the axe...
<ujjain> haha zmoylan-pi, if heÂ´s british yes.
<ali1234> penguin42: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fail2ban/+bug/1406996
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1406996 in fail2ban (Ubuntu) "fail2ban fails to ban" [Undecided,New]
<penguin42> ali1234: Did you see the thing about polling versus other settings?
<ali1234> yes, that's one of the other reports i linked
<penguin42> ali1234: Yeh, did their fix work for you? Also the action  setting?
<ali1234> i didn't see anything about an action setting
<ali1234> i didn't try anything to fix it yet
<penguin42> ali1234: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/20720129/fail2ban-not-banning-ssh-bruteforce-but-regex-works/20871940#20871940
<ali1234> i can't test anyway since i am not currently being attacked and i don't particularly want to ban myself
<penguin42> ali1234: Oh I can help you later if you want, about to have a shower though
<foobarry> some great android apps for free on amazon right now
<foobarry> just collected about 10
<foobarry> including monopoly
<ali1234> the backend polling thing sounds like exceeding inotify watches
<ali1234> https://github.com/fail2ban/fail2ban/issues/44 or perhaps as indicated here the watch stops when the log gets rotated
<ali1234> confirmed that's the bug ^
<daftykins> foobarry: didn't you mention getting get-iplayer to work again the other day? it seems to fail to update for me, says there's 0 or 1 program
<penguin42> ali1234: Ah well yeh, inotify on a different file to the one the changes are going on in won't work
<ali1234> it's actually not logrotate at all
<penguin42> it's not?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> i don't know what the problem. since i've now restarted the server it is getting the events again
<penguin42> ali1234: That would be consistent with something like a logrotate/inotify problem if it was looking at the old file
<ali1234> yes it would, but after more testing the repro steps i posted do not work, so it's more complex than just logrotate
<ali1234> perhaps after many logrotates it runs out of inotify handles or something
<penguin42> ali1234: It shouldn't be  a running-out-of-handles type thing since it should only ever be looking at the latest version of any log, so the number of logs it watches shouldn't go up
<ali1234> could be a leak though
<ali1234> if it doesn't close the old ones
<penguin42> yeh, it seems unlikely to die that easily though
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-02
<marxjohn1on> is anyone else having trouble with APT this morning? I get a load of 404s when trying to run apt-get update, although I can access the URLs fine in a browser
<zmoylan-pi> apt-get update running fine in other terminal window
<marxjohn1on> damn, looks like like an issue with sudo rather than with apt :/
<marxjohn1on> hmm, seems to have fixed itself after a reboot!
<popey> \o/
<popey> yay, now my laptop has longest uptime its ever had (in this install)
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/9658563/
<popey> 17 days!
<zmoylan-pi> my rasp pi laughs at your puny 17 days human :-)
<zmoylan-pi> i recently had to reboot it after a network outage.  first reboot in about 3 months
<foobarry>  10:24:40 up 1167 days, 21:17,  2 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.06, 0.03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> morning mammals
<awilkins> Urrgh, it's 2015
<zmoylan-pi> but you'll be writing dates down as 2014 for a few days weeks yet :-)
<brobostigon> months
 * Azelphur facedesks
<Azelphur> I saw a nice clip-on gamepad on Amazon and it states it'll only work with 82mm phones but the Nexus 6 is 83mm, so I asked a question on Amazon to see if anyone knew if it fits on the N6
<Azelphur> some guy replies "I've got an N4 and its fine" ... -.-
 * xnox ponders about buying N6
<Azelphur> xnox: I'm pondering too which is why I wanna make sure it fits ;)
 * brobostigon is happy with his nexus4, not too big, not too small.
 * awilkins is another happy Nexus 4 person, not even unhappy with the battery life
<awilkins> Android L seems to have really perked it up.
<brobostigon> last about a day i would say, average.
 * brobostigon agrees
<awilkins> If it was an easy matter to replace the battery I would probably consider doing it just to refresh it, but since it's a fiddle, I'll probably wait until it actually annoys me.
<cocoa117> does preseeding have option to use NFS as option to install Ubuntu?
<cocoa117> kickstart have this optin in the kickstart file e.g. nfs --server 10.2.3.4 --dir /srv/dfds
<sebsebseb> hi
<popey> hello sebsebseb
<sebsebseb> popey: hi
<sebsebseb> popey: are you back at work today?
<popey> sebsebseb: nope
<popey> Monday
<sebsebseb> Ubuntu BQ Phone
<sebsebseb> next month then?
<sebsebseb> popey: I am about to get my Jolla,  waiting for parcel to come, I shoud have put the code in for that before Christmas really since had paid etc
<sebsebseb> ,but might get a BQ Ubuntu Phone to
<popey> yeah, mid feb i believe
<penguin42> popey: How's the headware ?
<sebsebseb> yeah accordingg to omgubuntu, but your the expert on that realy not htem :d
<popey> friend of mine just got a jolla, he likes phones with real keyboards.
<sebsebseb> oh  jolla has a real keyboard?
<sebsebseb> yeah I'll get tablet in May to
<popey> well, actually omgubuntu Joey is one of the Ubuntu Insiders
<popey> who get news before us
<sebsebseb> really?
<sebsebseb> even though the site is unoffial
<popey> sebsebseb: yes, there was an indiegogo campaign
<popey> yes
<sebsebseb> yep that's what I contributed to
<popey> he's one of a whole bunch
<sebsebseb> the indiego compain for Jolla
<popey> Jordan Keyes is too
<popey> no, a separate indiegogo for a keyboard
<sebsebseb> also the edge before actaully I think, but that never happended so
<popey> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla
<popey> good if you like real keyboards
<foobarry> spotify app works for non premium accoints now..
<sebsebseb> oh another one
<sebsebseb> yes that's what annoys me about my Andoird phone trying to type on there is so slow uh
<sebsebseb> I am a touch typist :)
<foobarry> also, i don't seem to get any ads on the web player anymore ;S
<sebsebseb> for 15 years or so
<sebsebseb> so if you mean real keyboard as in like computer keyboard, well :)
<sebsebseb> popey: yes that's good, is that for the tablet to hm
<sebsebseb> that looks good I mean above
<popey> penguin42: it's http://store.bqreaders.com/es/smartphones/aquaris-e-4-5 - not high end
<sebsebseb> yeah so what will the price be of it
<sebsebseb> in pounds or proabably hmm
<popey> dunno, but should be similar to that price linked above
<penguin42> popey: No, I meant your promise to wear unusual headgear
<sebsebseb> about 117 pounds it seems then
<popey> penguin42: haha, i thought you meant hardware :D
<sebsebseb> I guess shoudn't be to much more than Â£100  since aparnatly the hardware is about a year old to on that phone
<sebsebseb> popey: then the high end  phone is for USA and such mainly isn't it, from the other company? that comes out later
<popey> Meizu is chi
<popey> *China
<sebsebseb> popey: I am listening to the new years show,  now starting to listen to you
<popey> hehe
<sebsebseb> I will do the whole thing
<sebsebseb> it isn't really 26 hours though, since  white space
<ali1234> if I get a BQ phone, can I put android on it if/when ubuntu totally sucks?
<sebsebseb> ali1234: probably
<sebsebseb> try it might be a bit sucky I guess,  someties anyway,  but  it wil still be intresitng to have the first one :)
 * sebsebseb will have a Jolla as well :d  and  my old two years old Android phone
<ali1234> i might be able to get a freebie but it depends if they actually bother to send them out
<ali1234> if not i'll have to buy one
<sebsebseb> freeibie from where?
<ali1234> but pretty much i only want to try it out
<sebsebseb> ali1234: no I think BQ will sel them and that's that
<ali1234> you know, from people :)
<sebsebseb> if it's about Â£100 that's reasonable
<sebsebseb> I think
<sebsebseb> ,but not to much over that, hardware is old aparnatly
<ali1234> they always send out review devices when they make a new phone
<sebsebseb> hmm true to media
<ali1234> and by "they" i mean all mobile phone manufacturers
<sebsebseb> some bloggers
<ali1234> however this isn't really a new phone so who know
 * sebsebseb probably woudn't get one free anyway
<sebsebseb> popey: so apparnatly ubuntu uk podcast might be stopping?
<popey> is it?
<sebsebseb> popey: no just something some were saying on the thing
<popey> the thing?
<sebsebseb> apparnatly Tony is leaveing I should probably say?
<popey> ali1234: yeah, we're sending some out to some people
<popey> yeah, he is
<sebsebseb> ,but you  lot going to carry on without him?
<ali1234> canonical is? normally BQ would do that :)
<popey> we are.
<popey> google send out nexus devices, not lg
<sebsebseb> ok that's what I wanted to know :)
<ali1234> nexus devices are google branded tho
<sebsebseb> why's he leaving?  someone mentioend on podcast that's all
<popey> sebsebseb: hang on, my "we are" was in reply to ali1234
<sebsebseb> oh
<popey> sebsebseb: he said on uupc
<popey> and the bq is ubuntu branded (I think)
<ali1234> i guess they have the manufacturer logo on them too
<popey> nexus devices are co-branded.
<sebsebseb> oh ok well I haven't heard that
<ali1234> yeah, interesting, that :)
<popey> heh
<ali1234> you sure you're allowed to tell us this? ;)
<popey> heh
<popey> I'm only telling you what I've seen reported elsewhere :D
<popey> (publicly)
<sebsebseb> omgubuntu guy gets a free one I guess joey :d
<popey> yes
<ali1234> i expected it would be more of a "canonical makes the OS, manufacturer takes it and brands it" type of thing
<sebsebseb> popey gets a free one I guess, but you  helped make it etc
<sebsebseb> so that makes sense
<popey> i already have one
<sebsebseb> the BQ one?
<popey> ali1234: i think that can happen too
<popey> sebsebseb: yes
<sebsebseb> oh I see just the last bits on the OS, and  company stuff
<sebsebseb> henceFebrurary relaes
<sebsebseb> I guess
<gavyam> helllo UK!
<gavyam> i love your country.
<gavyam> but i have an issue with my linux.
<sebsebseb>  
<awilkins> Anyone know a way of buying Google Play credit for your child's account without associating your paypal / credit card with their account?
<brobostigon> how about one of those google play cards/tokens?
<brobostigon> credit*
<awilkins> Yeah. It just seems redonkulous that you have to go a physical shop and buy a printed piece of plastic
<awilkins> And no, I'm not trusting one of those unapproved retailers who'll email you the code
<brobostigon> i dont know if there is a way, to topup someones elses account.
<awilkins> Not an obvious one
<penguin42> brobostigon: Can you buy an electronic version of those google play cards
<zmoylan-pi> a prepay credit card?
<brobostigon> no idea penguin42
<awilkins> Prepaid credit cards are not available in the UK AFAIK but I've not researched it
<awilkins> Can't seem to buy electronic versions of the play gift cards
<awilkins> Well, not from the approved source
<awilkins> THere are guys who will mail you a code but I'd rather not give them my money
<awilkins> Although you can buy them for Bitcoin...
<zmoylan-pi> odd, they have prepay cards in ireland.  i thought the banks here would only risk them after the uk had done all the software writing :-)
 * awilkins wonders if there's anything left on my Post Office Travel Card
<awilkins> You can get prepaids
<awilkins> Just never considered it
<awilkins> Still a total PITA to get a Â£3.99 app to please my daughter
<popey> stop bitching and go to the shop like a good dad
<awilkins> :P
<zmoylan-pi> can you gift apps on your account to her?
<popey> no
<popey> and if your child is under 13 they (or you) are in breach of the ToS anyway
<popey> so trying to get Google to "fix" this is a non-starter
<popey> the quick fix is logon to google play with your account on their device and install the app that way.
<popey> or see if it's in the amazon store, and use that
<awilkins> Yeah, even buying her a card and getting her to redeem it is outside the ToS
<zmoylan-pi> it's a bit sad that it works so badly
<awilkins> The quick fix is not really acceptable because the point is that I want to AVOID exposing my account to her tablet because it's a cesspool of free/evil apps
<popey> you dont need to
<popey> login as you, logout again
<popey> i have found a number of paid apps are free in the amazon store
<popey> also, there's a free app each day
<awilkins> Blimey. Her tablet is sick.
<awilkins> She went to the loo with it while we chatted
<awilkins> It's dropped 80% of it's charge in that time
<awilkins> She must have utterly thrashed the battery
<penguin42> awilkins: Battery management seems to be complete black art; I've got a Nook that does that
<popey> awilkins: what tablet?
<awilkins> popey, hudl 1
<popey> ah
<czajkowski> popey: you about ?
<popey> czajkowski: yo
<czajkowski> popey: any idea what I'm doing or not doing here
<czajkowski> I've a clean install
<czajkowski> installed flash
<czajkowski> on chromium most work like youtube no issues
<czajkowski> but on some pages keeps saying please install flash
<czajkowski> and also some drop memus do not work on chromium they appear blank but if you arrow down them they show
<zmoylan-pi> don't a lot of youtube pages not use html5 and not flash?
<zmoylan-pi> *now use
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Only if you configure for it
<mapp> what to wathc hm
<mapp> watch
<mapp> well that was rubbish crispy chilli chicken ..for 2  ..pah 2 5yr olds maybe
<popey> czajkowski: dunno, i dont have flash installed anymore, gave up on it. you may need pepper flash installing though
<popey> for chromium
<popey> oops   http://download.cyanogenmod.org/
<czajkowski> popey: okie cheers
<foobarry> mouse just wandered out in the lounge
<foobarry> and dog was sleeping on my lap
<foobarry> think it escaped down a wobbly antenna socket that goes under floorboards
<foobarry> wife wtching another adwul film
<foobarry> afwul
<foobarry> snow twilight and the hunstman
<mapp> never even heard of it
<mapp> im watching gone girl..bit long tho 2hr26 pfft
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-03
 * ball watches Ubuntu install
<daftykins> hey ball, long time no see
<daftykins> how's life? happy new year to you!
<ball> Not bad thanks daftykins, yourself?
<daftykins> yeah getting by ta :)
<daftykins> trying a new version huh?
<ball> I probably try Ubuntu about once or twice every year. This time I'm putting it on my daughter's PC though.
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> 14.10 or 14.04.1 ?
<ball> 14.10
<daftykins> non-LTS :(
<ball> We'll see whether it lasts long enough for lts to make sense ;-)
<daftykins> hehe
<ball> Looks like the install completed successfully.
<ball> It boots too. Time to run some updates.
<ball> I'll let that run overnight.
<mapp> hi all
<mapp> noone awake eh hm
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<christel> morning brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> morning christel :)
<SuperEngineer> I guess everyone's still got a hangover - tut!
<SuperEngineer> on the other hand, I guess nobody's got any probs, everybody's happy and they all had their keyboards nicked the kids!
<SuperEngineer> *by the
<bashrc> the world of personal computing has reached a state of perfection
<whirl74> good afternoon
<SuperEngineer> bashrc, I think you to prepend "im" to your word "perfection" in that statement
<SuperEngineer> [bait taken]
<SuperEngineer> and feel free to add "need" in my statement - in any appropriate place
<knightwise> evenin everyone :)
<daubers> LOOKOUT THERE'S A SPIDER AND IT'S GOING TO EAT YOU!!!
<daubers> Or not really
<daubers> your choice
<daftykins> don't scare me like that :(
<daubers> daftykins: Everyone needs a hobby
<SuperEngineer> spiders themselves are harmless - it's spider bites that creep up behind you and shut...
<SuperEngineer> ...BOO! they're the danger ;)
<daftykins> :D
<Welshman> Hi everyone using this free chat room. Do have a question as I am new to Ubuntu.
<Welshman> Is it possible to include all, or some, of the files of/from c2esp-27.tar.gz with all the files of the iso of Ubuntu to create an new iso using Img Burn?
<Welshman> The c2esp-27.tar.gz contains the driver for Kodak ESP C310 all-in-one printer - it makes Ubuntu compatible with that printer and vice versa.
<Welshman> Also, it would make life easier, that is, I would not have to install both separately.
<daftykins> saw you in the other channel ;)
<daftykins> imgburn isn't an ISO manipulation program
<Welshman> daftykins: OK. I thought this was a UK only chat room. So, where do you live? I live in Scotland and I am Welsh.
<Myrtti> it's pretty difficult to try to restrict the entry to people only from UK
<daftykins> sorry i don't see the relevance to where i come from
<Welshman> Myrtti: I recognise your nickname. My nickname used to be Mah-jonng.
<Myrtti> I'd be surprised if you didn't recognise it, I clocked 10 years on freenode last month and most of it in Ubuntu channels
<Welshman> daftykins: OK, again. Also, I would like to know what files from the c2esp-27.tar.gz (all or some) are to be included with the files of the Ubuntu iso to create a new iso. All I know is the c2esp-27.tar.gz does contain the driver for Kodak ESP C310 all-in-one printer which I stated earlier - it makes Ubuntu compatible with that printer and vice versa. It would make life easier, that is, I would not have to install both separately
<daftykins> i don't know anything about kodak printers
<Welshman> daftykins: But if I have to install c2esp-27.tar.gz separately how do I do it?
<daftykins> i thought someone in #ubuntu showed you an alternative package
<Welshman> daftykins: If they did then I missed it!
<Welshman> Myrtti: Sorry to disturb, but did or have you read any of my messages that I sent to daftykins? If "Yes" then any advice/idea?
<daftykins> #ubuntu is publically logged so you could browse back through to see it
<daftykins> i'm looking for that message now but it's going to take a moment
<daftykins> Welshman: they would reply if they knew. that's how IRC works, don't hassle people individually it's bad netiquette
<daftykins> !info printer-driver-c2esp
<lubotu3> printer-driver-c2esp (source: c2esp): printer driver for Kodak ESP AiO color inkjet Series. In component main, is optional. Version 27-2 (utopic), package size 31 kB, installed size 157 kB
<daftykins> that's what you were shown earlier
<Welshman> daftykins: Well, because I am new to Ubuntu I do not understand any of that. But, also, I have decided that from now on I will try things out regarding computing and I will only visit free chat rooms of any computer website when it's really necessary. Fed up of being asked "Why do you want to that?" and "You cannot do that!". Well, you do not know until you try.
<Welshman> Maybe I will learn something also.
<Welshman> So, I am leaving this room. Thank you for your advice. All the best for 2015 + bye for now.
<daftykins> Welshman: well, when we know the intended task we can come up with better approaches usually.
<daftykins> just telling us you want to put a driver on an ISO doesn't really make sense from the outset
<daftykins> the above is a software package installable from a single command on a clean install of Ubuntu, there's no need to put files on discs
<Welshman> daftykins: Well, sorry for saying this, but I am going to try. If Img Burn does not work to create a new iso of Ubuntu then I will search for a free program to do that task. Will only give up after doing a thorough search and when I cannot find any such program. It's about time that I try to do computing things myself - have up to now without anyones help and it is the only way that I am going to learn.
<Welshman> Just fed up of others asking me "Why do you want to that?" + saying "You cannot do that!".
<daftykins> yeah you can't just reauthor a disc like that i'm afraid
<daftykins> install, "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get install <packages>" - that's how software installation works with Ubuntu
<Welshman> daftykins: Thanks. If that is the answer to my original question then thanks. But I still am going to try what I originally thought whether I am successful or not. Also.  I will only visit any free chat room on any computer website when really necessary and after a big search on any 'subject'! That's it I have nothing more to say.
<daftykins> er, ok... but don't you think if you get the same response multiple times there might be a reason for that? :)
<Welshman> daftykins: Please allow me to provide an example. I used to visit a free chat room of a very popular computer website. About 1 year ago I asked a question of how to run any program from a SD card during boot up before Windows 'loads'. Was told that cannot be done. Well, it can be done because, even though I did not make a note of the website, I recently 'came across' or 'found' the actual procedure when I was not even searching a
<daftykins> your message got cut off at "searching a..." due to limits
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-04
<Welshman> daftykins: Sorry:...Well, it can be done because, even though I did not make a note of the website, I recently 'came across' or 'found' the actual procedure when I was not even searching about it. If that is possible then...
<daftykins> i don't understand that example, but you can't compare everything like that
<daftykins> also, just because a given approach 'works' it doesn't mean there aren't half a million better ways of doing things
<daftykins> but yeah, .tar.gz's are not how to install software on Ubuntu
<Welshman> daftykins: Well, sorry for saying this, but I think a lot of things are possible with regards to computing. Also, I do not know if this applies, but my brother who is a computer expert/geek and lives in New Zealand thinks I know more about computing than he does! That is really all I have to say.
<daftykins> !manual
<lubotu3> The Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/
<daftykins> ok well give the above a go if it goes wrong.
<Welshman> daftykins: Sorry but I have to leave the room. All the best for 2015 + bye for now.
<daftykins> wow
<Welshman> Wow? Anyway bye for now.
<diddledan> daftykins: I just read through that dialog you had with the welshman - wow indeed
<diddledan> I'm guessing the computer expert/geek brother who claims this guy knows more doesn't actually know enough to refer to himself as an expert
<diddledan> heck I work in the industry and I definitely never refer to myself as expert
<diddledan> I know enough to perform my job function
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> no mondesty in the world anymore ;)
<diddledan> :-)
<daftykins> i can understand multiple ways to do something, but why persist when told it's the wrong way to go about something?
<daftykins> i don't even have a clue what the 'run programs from an SD card before Windows boots' was about
<daftykins> maybe just SD card boot ;)
<diddledan> I really don't understand why he "needs" to put a printer driver in the dvd is
<diddledan> iso*
<daftykins> nah, we weren't permitted that nugget of info
<zmoylan-pi> because if you want to run the os from a live disk installing the printer would be more awkward?
<penguin42> I can only think if he was going around to install 50 machines with them all on
<diddledan> I could almost understand it if he was attempting to put a non-standard network driver there
<penguin42> yeh, a live cd would be a fair reason
<daftykins> penguin42: i was wondering that too
<daftykins> but then i would hope some guy who won't even look into how software is installed on Ubuntu, would be asked to setup a whole office XD
<penguin42> daftykins: Yeh well.....
<daftykins> c'est la vie? ;)
<daftykins> eh it just really frustrates when people aren't straight with you
<penguin42> yeh
<daftykins> like when people lie about damaging a laptop and you have to play detective
<diddledan> hmm, missed the last few lines due to disconnection
<diddledan> silly bt
<zmoylan-pi> no no it was like that when i got here...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: oops?
<diddledan> :-p
<zmoylan-pi> and then it takes an hour or two to learn that they randomly started deleting files to free up space...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: :D indeed
<zmoylan-pi> or poured their coffee into the keyboard
<diddledan> I like the windows support requests that eventually they admit to deleting things in c:\windwos\system32 because internet
<zmoylan-pi> or dropped the pc off the desk
<zmoylan-pi> or flipped the 110v/240v switch on the back of the old desktops
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> that could be nassy
<zmoylan-pi> or switched off the server in the middle of an end of year batch update overnight task in the accounts.
<zmoylan-pi> not *THAT* was nasty
<zmoylan-pi> *now
<diddledan> >.<
<diddledan> shauno has stories of big ups + cleaner lady
<daftykins> shauno: ooh do tell! :>
<daftykins> i was teaching a class of kids with hardware a bit ago, one of them did the voltage selector as one of the kind of diagnostic faults they had to set for each other
<daftykins> i made him stay late and swap the PSU for another
<diddledan> apparently cleaners can't read the "server equipment only" notices and plug random cleaning equipment
<penguin42> daftykins: The world still has voltage selectors?
<daftykins> penguin42: educational donation machines :)
<zmoylan-pi> english speaking cleaners?
<penguin42> ah
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: potentially. though it can sometimes be hard to discern ;-)
<daftykins> reminds me, i need to enquire about this "700 laptops" batch sometime :>
<diddledan> though if you need a lceaner, plumbfor a polish one, because they work harder than native british workers and they speak better english
<diddledan> daftykins: 700?!
<diddledan> that's a lotta flippies
<zmoylan-pi> though one of my favourites was the pc that always went wonky on the weekends in a security guard company.  took 2-3 months to track down that at weekend staff moved radio transmitter to top of pc and hard drive ended up getting random stuff written to it all the time,
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah, seems unreal to me
<daftykins> there must be some real dinosaurs in there to be that many
<daftykins> especially if that's locally O_O
<penguin42> daftykins: Or is ti just one big company upgrade cycle?
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: I heard of a similar one; a guy I knew used to repair typesetters and got called in to one that always went wrong about the same time, eventually tracked it down to the security guards cat that tended to sit on it
<daftykins> didn't hear much detail from the head of IT, just phone call, 700... he'll chase it up in the new year :D
 * penguin42 points out to daftykins it IS the new year
<daftykins> haha
<zmoylan-pi> i also had one where a new pentium iii just went corrupt within 2-3 days of installation as did all it's replacements.  in a shop beside electric commuter rail but should have been safe.
<daftykins> don't think the kids are back yet though
<zmoylan-pi> turns out it was beside wonky fridge freezer motor that kicked out a huge magnetic pulse.  a pii worked fine, piii a complete no no
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> purely the extra cycles sensitivity to EMI huh?
<diddledan> nuts
<zmoylan-pi> seemingly.  the piii was a windows pos replacing a dos pos on a pentium. had to search a lot till i found the pii
<zmoylan-pi> or the customer who put a novell network in a portacabin in the 80s.  but protected it from flooding by running all power/network/phone cables along roof.  hit by lightening.
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> actually a mate said he stretched a cable between two cabins just the other day up the local airport, as one PC was wireless from a router in the one next door
<daftykins> he was gonna call me, but you have to have some background check and pass to work airport side
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, they're not too keen on you wandering with a bunch of tools alright.  i had to fix a pc in a seaport secure area.  twas fun opening my toolbox.
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> I don't open my toolbox for just anybody
<diddledan> it's 2am, surely I'm allowed inuendo now?!
<penguin42> just put your screwdriver away laddie
<zmoylan-pi> small swiss army knife, large swiss army knife, big hammer...
<daftykins> heh i read penguin42's line in Scotty from Star Trek TOS's voice ;)
<diddledan> ditto
<diddledan> scotty is the only version of scottish accent I can encourage my brain to read
<daftykins> "er, laddy... don't you think you oughta rephrase that?"
<penguin42> yes that feels about the right accent for that line
<mapp> hi all
<mapp> night daftykins
<daftykins> nn sir o/
<mapp> not gotta be up early tomorrow i take it?:P)
<daftykins> 'tis Sunday!
<subash> hello sir
<subash> i need your help please
<subash> my hard disk is of 500 gb and was 400 gb used . while i try installing ubuntu 14.04 all my files were deleted. now i dont have any oprtating software on my laptop and even no files. can i get my files back. its really important please hehp
<subash> no onr is here
<subash> please email me at subashkarki68@outlook.com
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * penguin42 has set his alarm for tomorrow morning :-(
<zmoylan-pi> the happy traffic and commuters won't wake you up?
<penguin42> I get a lot of traffic noise anyway
<penguin42> but has been able to stay in bed until at least 11am since xmas
<zmoylan-pi> but tomorrow it'll be extra happy and relaxed
<knightwise> hey everyone :)
<brobostigon> afternoodlings knightwise
<knightwise> hey brobostigon  :) how are you this afternoon ?
<brobostigon> my eczema could be better, otherwise ok. and you?
<knightwise> working on  a little project
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> dugg up my old EEE pc this weekend and hooked it up with an external usb harddrive
<brobostigon> back up server?
<knightwise> now using some backupscripts and a little bit of bittorrent sync to create an offsite backup machine.
<penguin42> brobostigon: Mine always gets annoyed by colds
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> running the first syncs now so the bulk of the data has been moved over ..
<brobostigon> penguin42: similerly, anytime i am ill, it affects it.
<knightwise> next week I'll place the machine at my inlaws and .. boom : headless offsite backup machine
<penguin42> brobostigon: Actually I can normally tell from the eczema I'm getting a cold 2 or 3 days before I feel the symptoms from the cold
<brobostigon> penguin42: i agree, i get similer signs.
<knightwise> Coffee !
<knightwise> Cuz I need to finish up my paperwork for my quarterly taxes
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't a rasp pi pay for itself in the power it doesn't use over an eee pc?
<knightwise> You might be right,
<knightwise> but the eee doesnt use that much power , does it ?
<knightwise> i'm running it headless
<knightwise> i think the harddisk uses the most power (external usb disk) but it spins down when its not doing anything
<DJones> Any suggestions on a device that will turn a tv into a smart tv with dnla compatibility (that isn't a rasberry pi) and comes with a remote (or has an android app to create a remote)
<knightwise> chromecast
<zmoylan-pi> the pi can run off a phone charger while i suspect the eee pc takes a bit more power.  even with screen off that power brick is nice and warm :-)
<knightwise> works like a charm
<knightwise> Or one of those android pc stick things
<DJones> knightwise: Thats what I was thinking of, wasn't sure if it had dnla
<penguin42> DJones: There are some little android devices that can do that, never played with them for that purpose (and I bricked mine...)
<knightwise> the chromecast isnt dlna ,
<knightwise> but what servers are you using ? plex ?
<DJones> dnla
<DJones> minidnla to be more specific
<knightwise> DJones: from what app ?
<knightwise> erm... I think you are better off with one of those android mini pc"s.
<DJones> Fair enough
<knightwise> co worker of mine had one but i forgot the name
<zmoylan-pi> there are quite a few of them now
<penguin42> DJones: There is a big choice of different ARM hardware in them; if you find one that's based on an i.MX6 you should be able to run anything you like on it, not just Android
<DJones> Bought a new tv before christmas, then set up minidnla, that works briliantly, just thinking about getting something for the main tv for the living room to give it he same capeability
<DJones> Looks like quite a few available, http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Vsmart-v5ii-ezcast-smart-tv-stick-media-player-with-function-of-DLNA-Miracast-better-than-android/1406969810.html as an example
<penguin42> DJones: Yeh loads, they're just little android boxes
<penguin42> DJones: There's a vast variety in the hardware
<DJones> penguin42: Definately, a case were google is overwhelming with information
<penguin42> DJones: Some are more hackable than others; but generally there at least dual core 1GB RAM ish except for the oldest ones
<DJones> I'm not bothered about it being hackable (its got to be non-techy wife suitable) so plug in and use will be ideal
<DJones> non techy in that she uses Ubuntu & android and hates windows, so more techy than she believes, but don't want to overload her
<penguin42> DJones: Yep, some of them there are Ubuntu builds for for example
<DJones> As she says, Ubuntu just does what she wants, she doesn't have to mess around for 12 hours before she can install something after waiting for security updates that take for ever and never work
<DJones> penguin42: I'llhave to keep an eye out for something like that
<ali1234> the chromecast does DLNA if your phone does DLNA
<DJones> I'm looking for something I can plug into the tv that will connect to an Ubuntu server running minidlna
<ali1234> and how will you control it?
<DJones> Thats why I want something with a remote or android app to control it
 * penguin42 tries to remember, I think mine can do BT
<ali1234> so chromecast then
<penguin42> DJones: Some of them are built in more of a box format with more connectors
<DJones> ali1234: Thats what I thought, but as knightwise mentioned, it isn't dlna
<ali1234> like i said, it does DLNA if your phone does DLNA
<DJones> Must admit, I thought it was
<ali1234> that's the whole point
<ali1234> if you don't have an android phone it won't do anything at all, it has no user interface
<zmoylan-pi> always draw up your required feature list and be aware beforehand if you're going to compromise as finding out afterwards can be annoying :-)
<DJones> ali1234: So if you have an android phone, you can use that to control it connecting to an ubuntu server running minidlna?
<ali1234> yes, using this: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bubblesoft.android.bubbleupnp&hl=en_GB
<DJones> If I'm rteading that right, that just acts as a "man in the middle" by taking taking the dlna server files and casting to a chromecast?
<ali1234> yes, that's how chromecast works
<DJones> Thats not what I want, that'd mean a dedicated android device just to sit in the middle of a dlna server and a chromecast, I'm just looking for a single device to connect to a tv to convert it into a smart tv
<ali1234> why would you need a dedicated device?
<DJones> If I'm using my phone to control it and I'm out, my wife wouldn't be able to use it
<ali1234> she could use her phone?
<zmoylan-pi> you want something that will speak to a generic ir remote control?
 * penguin42 thought some of these things had IR on them, but anyway you can get BT remote controls
<DJones> Yeah, but that means you've got 2 android devices configured to connect to a chromecast and a dlna server, what I want is something that will plug into a tv and directly connect to the dlna server with a remote
<zmoylan-pi> which would allow you not to have micro computer peeking out for line of sight with ir which might be nice
<ali1234> i fail to see why that is a problem, but whatever
<DJones> Using an android phone as a remote is fine, but not if thats just acting as a intermediary converting/processing the files
<zmoylan-pi> i prefer ir and bt just has not lived up to it's promise of /better/
<DJones> zmoylan-pi: Thats an option
<zmoylan-pi> and using an android phone as remote will not help it's battery life if you're a channel flipper :-)
<DJones> I suspect one of the best solutions may be something like a roku box
<zmoylan-pi> someone who has already sanded off the rough edges so to speak
<DJones> :)
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the palmos app that allowed you to draw buttons on screen and copy a tv remote to that virtual button
<diddledan> home again after xmas break round the parentals
<zmoylan-pi> under your house so your rules are now in force... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> *your roof
<diddledan> :-D
<zmoylan-pi> emptied the piggy bank today when no more coins fitted in.  â¬38
<penguin42> woohoo fortune!
<diddledan> ooh
<diddledan> whatcha buying us?
 * zmoylan-pi passes out the chocolate donuts from tescos...
<penguin42> ooh!
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> cake ftw
 * popey looks at foobarry-away 
<foobarry-away> i'm going offline for 3 weeks
<foobarry-away> away from social media and irc
<foobarry-away> try to retrain myself
<foobarry-away> not to check phone all the time
<penguin42> foobarry-away: Enjoy
 * zmoylan-pi loans foobarry-away a dumbphone to eliminate temptation :-)
<foobarry-away> i'll try
<foobarry-away> the first 3 days will be hardes
<foobarry-away> i've become a bit conditioned in my habits
<foobarry-away> it happens with little kids in the room
<foobarry-away> flick the phone out constantly
<foobarry-away> ...anyway ..laterz
<zmoylan-pi> good luck
<foobarry-away> slap me if you see me before then
<foobarry-away> it starts tomorrow
<popey> we can help
<popey> done
<shauno> heh
<diddledan> :-p
<shauno> I was just thinking that actually disconnecting may aid in figuratively disconnecting.  but that's close enough
<shauno> Always wondered hwo people could be stupid enough to lose a whole tablet
<shauno> today I was stupid enough to find out :(
<popey> i lost my ipad
<popey> it was next to wifeys side of the bed
<popey> never looked there
<zmoylan-pi> i once found a full height server a customer had paid for and signed for 4 years before... in store room in our building.
<popey> blimey
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, was it supposed to be operational?
<penguin42> hehe
<zmoylan-pi> i think we had reports of how reliable it was...
<penguin42> yeh stuff like that happens
<diddledan> should it have been on their site or do you host servers for folk?
<zmoylan-pi> made that novell server walled up for a few years still running look wimpy :-)
<zmoylan-pi> 1) we didn't host 2) it was unplugged in a box 3) bought special as it had space for 12 drives
<diddledan> lol
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: What was actually running it?
<diddledan> I wonder what they signed for then
<zmoylan-pi> that's the weird part, normally getting a signature was like pulling teeth with these buggers
<shauno> I tend to believe that most things would work better burried in a wall, away from wandering fingers
 * penguin42 once had a case where we hadn't paid for our net bandwidth in a data centre for ~1 year - the ISP just hadn't sent us a bill, we just hadn't realised
<diddledan> shauno, make sure you don't leave ssh open
 * penguin42 also had a case where we realised the electric company was only charging us for 1 of the 6 meters that we were running an office of, for many years
<diddledan> penguin42, that could end up as a costly mistake. they might try/have tried to charge you when they discover it for all 6 meters in one lump sum
<diddledan> (from where they last had a reading)
<shauno> heh, mine did that to me.  turned out I was paying upstairs' bill.  when they "fixed" it they just gave me a bill for 2 years
<penguin42> diddledan: Right, well, yeh so that was the fun problem; it took us nearly a fear to convince them we had these meters, and some were wrapping every few months, oh and we'd had them installed when we came into the building
<diddledan> shauno, ouch
<penguin42> we were running probably 200A+ spread across those 6 meters
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> nasty.
<diddledan> north korea English bingo: The persistent and unilateral action taken by the White House to slap 'sanctions' against the DPRK patently proves that it is still not away from inveterate repugnancy and hostility towards the DPRK.
<daftykins> oh my word
<diddledan> bluray discs really don't like the slightest hint of fingerprint on them
<daftykins> i liked the one the other day about children with running noses or something :D
<daftykins> what fiend has been touching the read surface1/
<daftykins> *!?
<diddledan> me
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> it was so slight that I didn't realise I'd done it
<daftykins> i don't think i'd ever lend out my Sopranos bluray set ;)
<daftykins> since school time i've found friends are terrible with looking after things
<diddledan> certainly not to anyone with kids
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan> yeah, I always seemed to keep things better than other kids at school, too
<zmoylan-pi> or those people who put dvds/cds down on a surface data side down...
<zmoylan-pi> does this look like a flippin coaster??
<diddledan> e.g. computer game boxes and cd-cases - mine were all pristine. lend it to a friend and it comes back in pieces
<daftykins> :(
<zmoylan-pi> and that's why they never get anything loaned to them again
<zmoylan-pi> 1 strike and you're out
<daftykins> hehehe
<zmoylan-pi> i usually only use the disk once, rip to laptop, then lose the case and put the disk in storage boxes to save space as dvd collection was getting a bit silly
<zmoylan-pi> though some boxes like the 2001 with cel from film are kept for sentimental value
<diddledan> odd. computer just powered down for no reason
<diddledan> wonder if that's a windows10 thing or if I've got hardware issues
<m0nkey_> heh
<m0nkey_> powering off UPS to conserve power
<m0nkey_> bbl8tr (hopefully)
<m0nkey_> power outage here.. yay for having internet related on UPS :)
<diddledan> tata m0nkey_
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i've pondered getting a mains socket strip for my UPS so i can run the router and switch on it too
<daftykins> is it anti-social to vacuum at this time of night? 0o
<zmoylan-pi> yes
<zmoylan-pi> and chain saw, sand, snowblow, mow and practice klingon battle chants
<daftykins> :(
<zmoylan-pi> a dust pan and brush will suffice till tomorrow when you can use the hoover without annoying your neighbours
<diddledan> who cares, do it anyway
<daftykins> lawl
<daftykins> well, i am in a multi-feet-thick granite house
 * daftykins ponders
<shauno> I'm blessed with noisy neighbours who don't appear to sleep.  it's oddly convenient
<daftykins> hehe
<shauno> it seems the guy upstairs still has XP.  he has it hooked up to his TV.  when I get a nice bassy rendition of the shutdown jingle, then it's too late to make noise
<zmoylan-pi> had a student ask me for recommendation for replacing a laptop yesterday... a win98 laptop
<zmoylan-pi> it's a bit slow...
<shauno> well that makes it easy.  recommendation is .. "yes"
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, but she'll need windows for college work and that's win8.  you hate to do that to people
<m0nkey_> switched to tethering. a transformer blew a few streets away.
<Myrtti> crikey it's getting late
<m0nkey_> two hours without power now :(
<zmoylan-pi> i reckon i have power for about 24-48 hours of internet on various mobile devices in a pinch
<m0nkey_> i've restored to tethering for now. probably got a few hours on my laptop
<m0nkey_> UPS is down to 30mins, so shut it off for now until we really need it.
<shauno> time to invest in hamsters
<zmoylan-pi> good eating on hamster, or is it guinea pigs...
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: suggest a Dell outlet business model with win7 8D
<daftykins> though i can't be sure if even outlet models still have 7 at this point, lets have a look - www.dell.co.uk/outlet
<daftykins> m0nkey_: whereabouts are you, to have no juice?
<Myrtti> Montreal
<zmoylan-pi> daftykins: i'll mention it to her
<zmoylan-pi> ta
<zmoylan-pi> oxfam in ireland do refurb business machines with win7 but the specs are low
<daftykins> no problemo :)
<daftykins> wow, how bad?
<zmoylan-pi> 1gb ram, 60gb hd
<Myrtti> I'm totally in love with my XPS 13 from outlet eBay shop
<daftykins> Â£329 for an i3 ivybridge with win7 pro on there :D
<daftykins> Myrtti: is this the pre-1080p model?
<Myrtti> apparently I'm going to give it to the SO for testing at some point
<Myrtti> daftykins: nope, it's 1080p
<daftykins> ah, pretty recent then
<popey> with touch screen?
<Myrtti> yup
<popey> nice!
<Myrtti> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dell-XPS-13-ULTRABOOK-9333-3-1ghz-i7-8GB-256SSD-1080p-FHD-Touch-Screen-WIN-8-1-/351243594180?
<daftykins> touch just makes me laugh :) so something i'd never be after
<Myrtti> yeah I don't really care for touch myself either
<Myrtti> but other specs were what I was looking for so I don't mind it
<popey> daftykins: i thought that
<popey> then I started working on a company making a touch OS
<popey> so you know.. I need to
<daftykins> i'm kinda disappointed Myrtti, there you were getting by on some relic and i thought you were doing the world a service, only to upgrade :(
<shauno> I still support the death penalty for anyone who touches my screen
<zmoylan-pi> i saw a lenovo with a touch screen where you can flip it over and use the laptop as a tablet so there it might work
<daftykins> popey: i'll let you off then ;) still a joke on laptops though i think :D
<zmoylan-pi> leave finger prints on my screen and i will know who to hunt down :-)
<daftykins> shame that ebay page says none available!
<Myrtti> daftykins: I do have an old relic upstairs that couldn't keep up with anything I was doing anymore.
<popey> bed time!
<Myrtti> not that I do much, but LaTeX does require some oomph
<popey> o/
<daftykins> a funky markup thingy requiring power? oh dear
<daftykins> Myrtti: any ideas what your XPS13 there does for battery life?
<zmoylan-pi> the 21st century where text editors need serious umph :-)
<daftykins> concerning times indeed
<zmoylan-pi> if anyone wants me i'll be scolling some text...
<Myrtti> daftykins: I've not had much possibilities to test, I got it for Christmas present...
<daftykins> but that was weeks ago! :)
<daftykins> my existing machine does 8 hours so i'd like to at least match that really
<Myrtti> yeah, I've been a bit busy for a few weeks...
<daftykins> why did you take that seriously :(
<m0nkey_> power is back on
<Myrtti> yay!
<m0nkey_> outage was 3 hours
<m0nkey_> not fun with young kids, no heat or entertainment.
<m0nkey_> awesome... my freenas box BIOS reset to defaults. UPS saved it and shut down gracefully, then the UPS went off as normal. looks like i have a bad CMOS battery
<daftykins> :S
<daftykins> quick fix at least :D
<m0nkey_> box didn't boot up.. trying to boot from the first hard drive, well.. no boot sector..
<m0nkey_> thats on the usb
<m0nkey_> and she boots again
<m0nkey_> damn thing takes forever
<m0nkey_> guess thats what i get for getting server hardware :)
<daftykins> as in sounds like a tornado? ;)
<m0nkey_> daftykins: not really. got a pair of noctua fans in the box
<m0nkey_> it's a server motherboard, not a full blown server. that'll be silly.
<daftykins> what makes it server though?
<daftykins> ah
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> sure would
<m0nkey_> if you're interested: http://imgur.com/a/Ed2Sg
<daftykins> ooh ty
<daftykins> what's the sandisk item directly on the board?
<m0nkey_> It's a Sandisk Fit USB drive
<m0nkey_> It's what FreeNAS runs from
<daftykins> ah neat, seems like quite the proprietary port it's in?
<m0nkey_> nope
<m0nkey_> plain old USB
<daftykins> ah, odd to see one directly on the board on the inside
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-04
<diddledan> ebening
<diddledan> time for some pillocks methinks
<diddledan> yey for medications
 * diddledan medicates and meditates
<mapps> grmpf pc restarted
<czajkowski> aloha
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<popey> Morning!
 * popey notes all ubuntu channels suddenly have people in again :)
<diplo> heh, I rebooted my VPS a few days ago and forgot to restart irssi :P
<diplo> willcooke: Are you about ?
<willcooke> hi diplo, I am
<diplo> aha, I recognised the name, funnily enough I found your blog last night
<diplo> Looking into Home automation and after reading your blog in October it said you were following up with more :)
<diplo> Very interested if you do :D
<willcooke> oh cool!
<willcooke> Yeah, I have loads of hacked up bits and bobs
<diplo> Exactly the things I fancy doing is what you've already achieved
<diplo> I'm going to start ordering some stuff this week to start learning/playing
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, happy New Year, and happy World Braille Day! ð
<willcooke> Most recently I got it hooked up to Siri with homebridge https://github.com/nfarina/homebridge
<willcooke> if you have an evil iPhone
<diplo> Nope, but again I want all sorts of integration
<diplo> I think you were in the Mycroft channel at one point ?
<willcooke> diplo, so as a start I would recommend going for remote controlled power sockets - they are the cheapest, most reliable, easiest and most flexible way to enable things
<willcooke> Something like:  http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Maplin-5-Pack-Standby-Saving-Wireless-Sockets-Remote-Control-N38HN-/141848320386?hash=item2106d19982:g:pmsAAOSwNSxVa2EP
<foobarry> does sony charge for ability to play mutliplayer games?
<foobarry> on the PS4?
<diplo> Sounds good, and a url - you are a star :D
<willcooke> and then you can use the rcswitch library on both Arduino and RaspPi to control them,.
<willcooke> I'd suggest writing a script to let you switch on and off sockets, then web-enable that with a simple REST API
<willcooke> diplo, let me know if you have questions, happy to help
<diplo> Yeah, defo will try that, little flask app or something sounds good, just installed https://home-assistant.io/
<willcooke> ooh - I haven't see that project before, I will check it out
<diplo> Will do thanks, do you use any of the Zigbee/Z-Wave kit? Didn't see anything on your site so far, seems you're using RF freq's instead
<willcooke> I found them to be quite expensive
<willcooke> for what they are
<diplo> yeah, after my initial investigation I was the same, I guess that's why I was interested in your ideas :)
<willcooke> but if you want to transmit data between two home-brew devices check out the NRF24 modules
<diplo> Also looked at making some of my own kit, rather than buying pre bought stuff
<willcooke> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1pc-NRF24L01-Antenna-Wireless-Transceiver-Module-SPI-For-Arduino-100M-/151930914258?hash=item235fc9c5d2:g:tfkAAOSwUdlWgTjl
 * diplo opens a google doc for all this great info :)
<diplo> Nice and cheap!
<willcooke> If you're planning on building some sensors I'd suggest the Pro Mini Arduino clones.. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pro-Mini-atmega328-Board-5V-16M-Arduino-Compatible-Nano-NEW-/181894982202?hash=item2a59c92a3a:g:nc4AAOSw3ydVvjim
<diplo> I think I'm going to order a few bits in and experiment first
<diplo> My ultimate goal for this was to make a thermostat and control my boiler remotely
<diplo> But I want to start small and build up
<diplo> andylockran has been doing something similar
<willcooke> Typical UK boiler-thermostat set ups are pretty easy really.  It's just a couple of mains voltage switches
<willcooke> so relays are ideal
<willcooke> and can be easily controlled from a pi/arduino
<diplo> yeah that's the part I'm totally lost in, was reading a few sites last night that gave me some ideas though
<diplo> If I put together some info and how I expect to do it and stick it in a doc or something would you mind having a look over, want to work it out myself but would like an appraising eye if at all possible :) don't want to break things :P
<willcooke> sure thing, no problem.  Just remember, mains voltage, dangerous, etc etc
<willcooke> so, I dunno, you might want to wear some welly boots or something
<diplo> heheh work for an Electrical Wholesaler, I get that a lot here :D
<willcooke> ahhh, perfect
<diplo> Unfortunately no electronics stuff, so ebay/amazon et all for me :/
<willcooke> I think if I were to implement my heating controller again I wouldn't use a Pi.  It's overkill.  An ESP8266 and a dual-relay board would be sufficient.
<willcooke> and then do all the smarts somewhere else
<willcooke> (maybe a Pi)
<diplo> I was asking here a week or so ago, going to get a soldering iron, any recommendations, they seem to be all over the place in price
<willcooke> and keep the controller as a simple on/off device
<diplo> Ah I was looking at those yesterday
<willcooke> @ soldering iron - you can't go wrong with Antex
<davmor2> just a heads up aldi are doing 2 32gb micro sd card for 12.99 :)
<diplo> OK great thank you, a wealth of knowledge!
<willcooke> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antex-Soldering-Iron-XS25W-230V-with-PVC-Cable-and-13A-Plug-/252090847897?hash=item3ab1c91299:g:F~MAAOSwLqFV9gJe
<diplo> ta davmor2
<willcooke> actually, no, that iron has a *massive* tip
<willcooke> maybe this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Antex-M12-12W-Soldering-Iron-230V-Silicone-Cable-British-Plug-S17J470-/380957780265?hash=item58b2da6929:g:NJEAAOSwv0tVJ37N
<diplo> hah that was one of my questions to someone else, not knowing which to buy
<willcooke> 12W will be enough for home-hacking
<willcooke> that M12 one is the one I've got
<willcooke> I sometimes wish I had a smaller tip, but not enough to go and buy one.
<willcooke> they're easy enough to replace
<diplo> OK great thanks again, think I'm going to order some bits, maybe some little leds and a bread board etc, start small, little web app to test and work my up
<willcooke> awesome!
<willcooke> Be warned though....
<willcooke> once you start, it's really hard to stop :)
<diplo> Wanted a project for a long time, get bored when my kids are with their mum
<willcooke> suddenly everything needs to be an IoT device ;)
<diplo> hah, well it's the mycroft that made my decision as I wanted to integrate all this stuff
<diplo> Also the NEST stuff as well, so yeah I believe my house will turn the same way :)
<willcooke> oh yes!  I can't wait to get my hands on Mycroft
<willcooke> Nest looks nice, and is probably a similar cost to my homebrew one, after I factor in the time I spent on it
<diplo> Yeah, but the time doesn't count as you're enjoying yourself ?
<willcooke> ha, good point
<diplo> And you're totally in control as well
<willcooke> yeah, thats the main win for me
<diplo> I'm no tinfoil hat person, but I also rather keep my data/connections internal or self hosted if I can
<willcooke> totally agree
<diplo> To that point I'm moving contacts etc away from google, will still use their services just not be dependant on them
<willcooke> oh, if you do get a 433 MHz radio receiver (note: don't buy the really cheap ones, they are garbage)
<willcooke> then a really simple project is getting a smoke alarm hooked up
<diplo> OK, anything else use that spectrum ( not sure if that's the right word ) IE for interference ?
<willcooke> you can buy off the shelf (ebay - China) alarm that will hook right in
 * diplo is ashamed, I actually don't have *ANY* in my house currently
<diplo> Well I have two in boxes that have never been setup
<willcooke> it's a free for all spectrum, so it's very noisy, but the signals don't propagate a very long way
<willcooke> so you'll be ok
<diplo> ah ok, like that zigbee etc
<willcooke> more or less
<diplo> I think I'll do the LED's first, set up a controller receiver and turn on and off in different parts of the house
<diplo> You've been a wealth of information, thanks willcooke ! Now I suppose after 2 weeks off I better actually do some work and then order all this stuff at lunchtime :)
<willcooke> diplo, drop me an email will@whizzy.org and I'll send you some more links
<diplo> Will do, thank you!
<DJones> Heh, I like this, shows the police have a sense of humour http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35220682
<diplo> Sent, did it now as I'll probably forget later
<willcooke> cool, give me a few days to collate everything and I'll reply
<diplo> Sure no rush, you've given me loads to start with, thanks again
<davmor2> JamesTait: a cheeky one here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYluMAO1b7Y
<JamesTait> davmor2, your record player is on the wrong speed. ð
<JamesTait> Also not sure what it has to do with Braille, but wotevs. ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: the line "feel your way" :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: told you it was cheeky :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, tenuous at best....
<JamesTait> But it's the first day back after two weeks off, so I'll cut you some slack. ð
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<diplo> Whilst I'm asking questions today, anyone recommend a cheap / half decent UPS for a small business, only going to need to run a small nas / router / switch and be able to alert me in some way
<davmor2> JamesTait: I guess there is Sam Fox and Touch me or aha and the sun always shines on tv (lots of touchy's in that ;) )
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Glad I bought an Ubuntu phone way back when, even if I didn't use it afterwards. Managed to brick my android phone last night. Ubuntu phone to the rescue!
<bigcalm> popey: is there a way to turn off all haptic feedback? As much as I've managed to disable, there are still instances where some apps use it
<zmoylan-pi> you always need a backup phone
<ahayzen> bigcalm, have you toggled the "Other vibrations" switch in System Settings->Sound then right at the bottom?
<bigcalm> ahayzen: yes, which killed off a lot of vibrations. But some apps are still buzzing at me
<ahayzen> ugh, i seem to remember reading a bug somewhere about that :-/
<ahayzen> bigcalm, which particular places continue vibrating?
<ahayzen> bigcalm, seems it might be bug 1433590
<lubotu3> bug 1433590 in usensord (Ubuntu) "apparmor dbus denial for org.freedesktop.Accounts and make Other vibrations work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433590
<bigcalm> ahayzen: Sudoku (by Ubuntu Core App Developers), the menu icon causes a buzz
<ahayzen> bigcalm, OK, yeah i suspect it is that bug as there was a similar bug in clock (bug 1482282) which was then marked as a duplicate to the one above
<lubotu3> bug 1433590 in usensord (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #1482282 apparmor dbus denial for org.freedesktop.Accounts and make Other vibrations work" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1433590
<bigcalm> ahayzen: ah, good. Glad that it's an known issue then
<bigcalm> Thanks
<ahayzen> no problem, looks like that is targeted for OTA10 :-)
<bigcalm> Is it possible to have longer than 4 digit unlock codes? :)
<bigcalm> Amusing that the current OTA is 8.5
<popey> yes, you can set a passphrase
<popey> of a longer length
<popey> I would have preferred if the OTA was called 8Â½
<davmor2> bigcalm: you can cut each digit into quarter if you tape x's to your glasses then you have 16 bits of numbers, otherwise use a password as popey says :)
<diddledan> gooooood moooorning vietnam!
<diddledan> I haven't seen that in agea
<diddledan> ages
<zmoylan-pi> robin williams classic...
<diddledan> so I may have some work around the corner for the new year (after the nice xmas present of losing my last job :-)
<zmoylan-pi> the commute will suit so...
<diddledan> lol
<bigcalm> Wakka wakka
<diddledan> not what I meant :-p
 * zmoylan-pi pictures diddledan turning up for work in pjs, slippers clutching half finished bowl of cornflakes...
<diddledan> haha
<zmoylan-pi> penguin slippers...
<diddledan> "around the corner" == coming soon
<diddledan> TUX SLIPPERS?!
<diddledan> :-op
<zmoylan-pi> http://www.amazon.com/Pillow-Pets-Penguin-Slippers-Small/dp/B007JN8CLK%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAILSHYYTFIVPWUY6Q%26tag%3Dduckduckgo-d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3DB007JN8CLK
<zmoylan-pi> feck it, do the commute dressed that way... guaranteed to get a seat to yourself... :-)
<diddledan> lol. well this new job will be remote (new boss is currently in Japan, and has been travelling the past 5 years)
<diddledan> means I can sit in my dressing-gown :-p
<diddledan> o_O perfect.org
<daftykins> O_O
<diddledan> ello daftykins
<daftykins> hi sir
<daftykins> HNY to thee
<diddledan> danke
<daftykins> mmm more phone surgery calls today, got a blackberry screen to go swap
<diddledan> yeesh
<daftykins> it amuses me that the ebay sellers sell the screens with the official logo but have to cover it with some gunk to avoid getting in trouble
<popey> need to get a new screen for my mx4
<popey> annoyingly hard to get the screen off the current device
<popey> might take it to local phone shoppe and ask them to do it
<zmoylan-pi> get a coffee in neighbouring shop while you wait...
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i've heard of 3+ people that want iPhone 6 models sorted now, so careless these folk ;)
<diddledan> daftykins, fix my shoot
<zmoylan-pi> if you sit on public transport and look around you see a lot of smartphones in use with cracked screens
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, yeah, I cringe
<daftykins> diddledan: i was unaware your shoot was broken sir
<diddledan> daftykins, fix everyone's shoot
<davmor2> popey: what did you do to it
<davmor2> popey: I'm not sure how you manage to destroy so many phones ;)
<popey> I don't really
<diddledan> davmor2, he doesn't destroy any higher percentage, it's just that he has so many more phones
<popey> Expressed as a proportion of how many phones I have
<popey> I cracked my 4s, cracked my nexus 4, and cracked my mx4
<popey> PATTERN!
<diddledan> 4's must be easily breakable
<davmor2> popey: so no more 4's they're unlucky for you :)
<popey> all just cracks, no catastrophes
<diddledan> cat's ass trophy?
<zmoylan-pi> some people are just careless... :-) https://www.facebook.com/1644487285840108/videos/1653632858258884/
<daftykins> see i just find that guy stupid
<daftykins> even though it's clearly staged :P
<zmoylan-pi> i'm ok with that when there's pain involved... :-)
<daftykins> still can't believe this blackberry screen was Â£8.50 o0
<zmoylan-pi> some of the parts for phones are peanuts, especially if they ordered millions and the sales never happened :-)
<daftykins> must have come from the two Ronnies grocery store
<zmoylan-pi> fork handles?
<daftykins> the very same
<zmoylan-pi> i still meet people who have never seen that...
<diddledan> that guy is a mormon
<zmoylan-pi> they're replaced stimulating beverages with raw leccy :-)
 * diddledan stimulates
<diddledan> ooh, I just remembered silent witness is on tonight
<daftykins> that's an old one right o0
 * diddledan like that show
<diddledan> daftykins, new episodes
<daftykins> what a gloomy day
 * diddledan glooms
<diddledan> is that a verb?
<daftykins> pass
<SuperMatt> google suggests yes
<zmoylan-pi> yeah... but an american site checking your english...
<SuperMatt> I kind that google tends to be quite good at finding definitions because it sources them from multiple locations
<diddledan> wow, mains voltage just popped over 251V
<diddledan> my UPS had to switch into voltage-regulation mode
<zmoylan-pi> as if everyone had switched off the christmas tree at once... :-)
<diddledan> and millions of voices all cried out
<diddledan> and then disappeared
<diddledan> were silenced**
<MooDoo> evening all
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo
<diddledan> m00
<popey> yo
<diddledan> yoyo
<diddledan> Guest84409, you broke it
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/sh/r4xai3xjfx0ennk/AACXB79DA9gow6GTJOT5TQt4a?dl=0
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> one disassembled blackberry
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dmhF1rqaZk
<daftykins> odd, client texts to say he lost his broadband and dial tone... now it's mystically come back minutes later :D
<andylockran> diplo - just seen your reference to me in your earlier conversation with willcooke
<andylockran> at the moment going to work off running the third-party stuff via mqtt
<andylockran> evening all
<MooDoo> diddledan: bloody internet, virgin are being a bit pants lately
<diddledan> yeah, my virgin box keeps disconnecting itself very regularly (sometimes every hour, but not predictable)
<daftykins> if it's come in with the weather, wouldn't hurt to check your connections
<andylockran> sky have been a bit dodgy on the ol' broadband over Xmas
<andylockran> down about 5 hours between 24th and 3rd
<MooDoo> it's been unbeleivable over the last few weeks, I'm hoping it's to do with all their upgrades
<daftykins> could be
<diddledan> no-one be sick on tuesday next week
<diddledan> doctors are taking the day off
<daftykins> D:
<daftykins> but they can't!
<dogmatic69> Damn, I already booked that day off sick.
<diddledan> reminds of "Carry on at your convenience"
<mapps> hewwwo
<daftykins> o/
<mapps> doctors always whining..but they know it long hours
<mapps> and when they complain about pay...its just at the start the pay sucks?
<mapps> i dislike striking.where does it end..give in then down the line..strike again
<mapps> in any industry
<zmoylan-pi> striking is the workers way of been listened to
<mapps> i get that, but if people give in whats to stop them doing it again
<mapps> blackmail
<mapps> i get its about being litened to and dont have an alternative ..but still
<zmoylan-pi> the only reason we have workers rights is because workers fought for them
<zmoylan-pi> there can and are strikes that seem selfish.  that's when the strikers lose public support.  makes the strike less successful if public are prepared to go elsewhere
<zmoylan-pi> except of course in industries that are monopolies or closed systems like medicine
<zmoylan-pi> but doctors and nurses are treated terribly for the most part.  until they get to the later stages of their career when they have more options
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> i have a fair few mates that are docs
<zmoylan-pi> i've seen doctors and nurses essentially hallucinating from lack of sleep. and having to have their less tired colleagues help them out
<daftykins> mmm i wouldn't even want to conduct surgery on a smartphone whilst sleep deprived ;)
<zmoylan-pi> unless it was winphone.... :-P
<daftykins> that's true!
<daftykins> that'd be put down ;)
<zmoylan-pi> the red headed step child of the phone industry...
<daftykins> XD
<zmoylan-pi> maybe a better way would be that industries like medicine or monopolies should have a non striking clause like the police but be allowed a work to rule or other partial strike methods
<zmoylan-pi> i.t. is a weird industry as it is nearly totally ununionised.  and that is why bosses can get away with treating staff like crap.
<mapps> work time;[
<daftykins> yay work
<NET||abuse> oh boy, trying to fix a 15.10 nvidia/optimus laptop which i tried using bumblebee on a while ago, i've just tried moving to the nvidia-355 and primus setup in the wiki. but it's not working :(
<NET||abuse> I get into unity but i get a no decorations session
<daftykins> seen lots of issues with that combo
<daftykins> try purging all bumble* nvidia* and trying nvidia-346 with nvidia-prime
<daftykins> which it should pull in auto due to deps
<daftykins> always double check with the guest session to rule out user config quirks too
<NET||abuse> hmm, will try that.
<NET||abuse> ok, guest session worked
<NET||abuse> how can i test what drivers etc are running?
<daftykins> /var/log/Xorg.0.log would state what was fired up on boot
<daftykins> no idea how to run something and work out what it's using though :(
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-05
<NET||abuse> daftykins: thinking i'll tail it in tty and log in to session,
<daftykins> oh nothing adds to it after X starts really
<NET||abuse> oh, so my guest session works, but my user logs in and has no decoration
<NET||abuse> so how do i debug that?
<daftykins> first check ~ for any files not owned by the user, anything owned by root after the use of "sudo startx" would've trashed it
<daftykins> then the ~/.Xsession-errors i think it's called may provide some clue
<NET||abuse> argh, got distracted by mock the week
<NET||abuse> hmm, somethng called ~/core in home dir, 24MB
<NET||abuse> owned by root
<daftykins> directory? usually obvious when components are DE related and could have some impact
<daftykins> you could just pastebin ls -al ~/ too, if the contents isn't personal.
<NET||abuse> hmm, what's that cli paste tool
<daftykins> pastebinit
<NET||abuse> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14406212/
<NET||abuse> i've so much junk in there :P
<daftykins> pastebinit ~/.xsession-errors
<daftykins> ?
<NET||abuse> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14406231/
<NET||abuse> gnome3?
<daftykins> pass :D
<daftykins> ooh the stamp on the file was 5 mins ago though, so that could be your most recent login
<daftykins> have a quick play with the session chooser on your account, is it possibly on the wrong thing?
<NET||abuse> yeh, no login gets a working unity for this user
<daftykins> bit of a stretch
<daftykins> can you still open a terminal with ctrl+alt+T?
<NET||abuse> i've dropped a .desktop file for a terminal
<NET||abuse> so i can click open a terminal,
<NET||abuse> ctrl+alt+t doesn't work no,,
<daftykins> "compiz --replace" in it do anything to give you unity back?
<daftykins> i think what i'd first do is check ~/.Xauthority too as i think that's important for these issues, then i'd create a new user and log into that to confirm what the guest session implies, then #3 i'd try renaming ~.config ~.gconf to see what clean tries do, but that's the extreme idea
<NET||abuse> daftykins: .Xauthority just has a bit of unreadable binary in it.
<daftykins> ah
<NET||abuse> compiz --replace output   http://paste.ubuntu.com/14406323
<daftykins> hmm
<NET||abuse> there's an .nvidia-settings-rc file
<NET||abuse> dont see what that will affct
<daftykins> nah nor me
<daftykins> i'd go the above route with a wholly separate user for confirmation first
<NET||abuse> how do i logout of this user when i've no top bar? :(
<daftykins> restart lightdm from TTY
<NET||abuse> ok, created new user, login works.
<daftykins> unity comes up a-ok? guess it's home config renaming time
<NET||abuse> yup,,, arrg
<NET||abuse> well, is there some other way to debug it.
<daftykins> what's the big deal about renaming a couple o' folders?
<NET||abuse> oh, so you're saying just go into .config and just pull out a few directories?
<daftykins> nah rename .config to .configold to start
<daftykins> you're just isolating the problem, you can be more detailed later
<NET||abuse> yup, did that
<NET||abuse> user can login now
<NET||abuse> grrr.
<NET||abuse> now need to go see how much config i'm missing. ;)
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> it'll be most software
<daftykins> but you can add back in to spot the culprit, it'll probably be something DE related still
<daftykins> i don't know what'd be in .config for a desktop user as i don't use ubuntu
<daftykins> oh doesn't compiz live in .config?
<daftykins> those would probably be #1 candidates
<NET||abuse> hmm, could drop .config back in place minus compiz specific config.
<NET||abuse> might try that.
<daftykins> *nod*
<NET||abuse> found the culprit
<NET||abuse> the ~/.config/dconf file
<NET||abuse> rm that file and login works fine.
<NET||abuse> not sure how much stuff i loose in that file
<NET||abuse> the backup seems to be quite a dense bunch of text that's readable but unclear it's meaning.
<NET||abuse> sorry, it's just ~/.config/dconf/user
<NET||abuse> hmm, never mind, sublime sees it as binary.
<daftykins> it'll be all GUI params i think
<daftykins> but you don't rm it, you just rename XD
<daftykins> ah well, that's pretty successful
<NET||abuse> indeed, kept everything else in .config
<diddledan> we live in the future! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35230043
<zmoylan-pi> i remember the sci fi show with the pull out screen pdas from the 90s... i thought they looked cool then.  could be nice wearable on wrist that extends to larger screen if wanted
<diddledan> that'll be gene roddenberry's "Earth: Final Conflict"
<zmoylan-pi> yup
<diddledan> the show that went through more cast members than actors in LA
<zmoylan-pi> took away from the usual trek 3 bridge crew and an unknown land on a planet... goodbye ensign ricky... :-)
<diddledan> at least the ensigns in star trek were bit-part roles. the cast of earth final conflict regularly had to replace lead roles
<diddledan> it was a farce
<zmoylan-pi> it did lack a bit... we were a bit spoiled for decent sci fi in 90s
<zmoylan-pi> i'd watch it now
<diddledan> this is an interesting view on the cast changes: http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?s=b5c7b89e1d01cfe6bb6324feae474f09&p=8786578&postcount=4
<mapps> hola
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> as usua;l anoher overrated tarantino film imo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<DJones> Moin
<mapps> morning
<brobostigon> moin
<MooDoo> morning all
<mapps> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> howdy :)
<mapps> 15mins left of the hateful eight;]
<MooDoo> film?
<mapps> ya
<mapps> tarantino film
<mapps> samuel l jackson , kurt russel and the dude from the shield/justified
<MooDoo> yeah i know it.
<mapps> sleep time;D
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i'm grumpy this morning :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: how's that different from every other morning, by the way complain every day that your virgin service is faulty they wound up paying for my internet for 3 months :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> davmor2: it was shocking last night....
<davmor2> MooDoo: seriously complain everyday it is bad, also mention that you work from home so it is affecting your ability to work and you'd hate to have to move to the now faster BT ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'd bitch and moan if I was hosting at home, but as i'm not doing that any more I don't know if I can be bothered :) I know it's down to them preparing for upgrades later in the year....
<andylockran> hey diplo you around?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Tuesday, and happy Golden Gate Bridge Day! ð
<MooDoo> howdy JamesTait :)
<JamesTait> Morning, MooDoo! https://youtu.be/wYCpWblDKok
<MooDoo> JamesTait: stop makeing me smile :p
<diplo> andylockran: That I am
<diplo> Although 20 min lag :D
<JamesTait> Sorry, MooDoo, I should leave that to davmor2. ð
<JamesTait> diplo, did you get around to trying bacon, brie and avocado?
<davmor2> JamesTait: this seems topical https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryF9p-nqsWw
<diplo> JamesTait: Tried avocado and was a bit meh, although I didn't try the combination if I'm honest, something to try for definite
<JamesTait> davmor2, better than yesterday's effort. âº
<JamesTait> diplo, it's also good in salads.
<diplo> Yeah, me and the kids are going to try more stuff this year, one of my boys put on a fair bit of weight, want them ( and me ) trying more fruits/veg's
<diplo> Guy I work with eats it most days on its own
<diplo> willcooke: Thanks for the brain dump, its great thanks! Spent Â£60 yesterday on my initial play kit :)
<diplo> May need to buy a bit more soon
<andylockran> morning guys
<MooDoo> morning
<willcooke> diplo, \o/
<knightwise> hey peeps
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<SuperMatt> word
<knightwise> hey brobostigon , SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> all cool up in this bizzle?
<knightwise> Yep ,
<knightwise> ready to rumble and remodel some of my home network tongi
<knightwise> tonight
<SuperMatt> wh00p
<knightwise> got me an acer revo rl85
<knightwise> popping in some spare laptop drives i have lying around
<knightwise> Install ubuntu server on it, plex and boom , media server ready
<SuperMatt> that's a desktop pc?
<SuperMatt> gosh, oems are getting creative with the case designs these days
<knightwise> yep , its sweet and it fits 3 drives Ã¨
<knightwise> you can also use it as a supository
<knightwise> then its a RAS drive (Rectal attached storage)
<knightwise> but since its a celeron (i got the cheapest one) i might just forgo a graphical user interface
<SuperMatt> well it's not going to need a gui if it's in a place where the sun doesn't shine
<knightwise> Badbing !
<knightwise> gonna see if it can schedule power-on in the bios, then i can schedule a power down in cron.
<knightwise> that way I can take the server down during the night.
<knightwise> and boot it back up in the afternoon
<SuperMatt> good plan
<foobarry> anyone ever have problems with handbrake where it doesn't scan the titles?
<foobarry> have to choose the individual VOB files
<SuperMatt> what's a handbrake?
<foobarry> dvd ripper
<SuperMatt> ah, I see
<foobarry> i've got rather behind in my dvd->plex transfer
<SuperMatt> I don't use it, so I clearly can't answer your questions
<diplo> foobarry: I think that's where it can't read the file/disc properly. I've started ripping them with makemkv first and then re-encoding after
<foobarry> diplo: i ripped the vobs individually though :S
<foobarry> diplo: gots any scripts, tutorial to share?
<diplo> I used to have, I now have gone billy basics, I do wonder whether when ripping them it's not ripping them correctly ?
<diplo> I basically rip with makemkv to a unencrypted mkv file the size of the source then select high def output ( can't remember the setting ) as mkv and encode, 5GB to about 1.3gb files
<foobarry> i shove the disc in and press the green button to make a m4v in HB
<foobarry> although plex is fussy about names
<diplo> Yeah I had issues with that myself, that's why I pre-ripped them
<diplo> Works everytime, takes about 3-4 minutes to 10 mins depending on the film to rip with makemkv
<foobarry> i also have an hpc cluster at my disposal for transcoding if needed :D
<diplo> My machine is soooooo slow, keep meaning to do it on my dads
<bashrc> unity can be painful on older hardware
<diplo> yeah I found that too bashrc, on mate now for now
<andylockran> anyone on an xmpp server?
<foobarry> diplo: do you have a copy of the usual commands you run pls?
<diplo> I'll let you know when I get home, don't have access to it at work
<foobarry> is makemkv linux?
<foobarry> ah, its on the forum page
<davmor2> foobarry: yes
<davmor2> foobarry: from memory you have to rebuild it every month or something like that
<diddledan> do we know if php7 is going to be packaged for xenial at all?
<davmor2> diddledan: no idea
<diddledan> debian unstable has php7 packages, so my hope is that it's going to be pulled before the 16.04 LTS lands
<daftykins> the folks in #ubuntu+1 have any clue?
<diddledan> it would be really sucky to leave php at v5 for another two years
<mapps> hi:D
<daftykins> evenin'
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-06
<mapps> well
<mapps> evil dead sucked
<mapps> you seen them daftykins?
<mapps> il watch 2nd..maybe its better ..:P
<daftykins> wussat? naw not familiar with that
<diddledan> in soviet russia dead sucks your evil
<diddledan> or maybe evil sucks your dead
<diddledan> I can't decide which
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/jetjocko/status/684537451122180096
<diddledan> I am in full agreement with that tweet
<ali1234> how can anyone not be familiar with evil dead... sam raimi? bruce campbell?
<zmoylan-pi> never seen it i don't think
<diddledan> I've not seen any of them either
<ali1234> well you need to correct that asap
<ali1234> maybe start with 2 or 3 though
<zmoylan-pi> meh, i'm good
<ali1234> because 1 is basically some kids with a camera
<daftykins> sounds like something horror or zombie related which i'd likely ignore
<ali1234> yes pretty much
<zmoylan-pi> it can be hard recommending some series when you have to tell them 'but start with'... :-)
<ali1234> 2 is basically a remake of 1 but with a budget
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of trek series are like that as is discworld
<diddledan> it's a serial version of night of the living dead :-p
<ali1234> if you are in to low budget "amateur" films then you will be fine with 1
<ali1234> also, they have a lot of comedy, more so in the later films
<ali1234> it's not serious at all... i mean it has bruce campbell
<diddledan> I can't place who that is
<zmoylan-pi> ditto
<ali1234> he's... ash from evil dead?
<zmoylan-pi> which... i haven't seen...
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> yeah that ^
<ali1234> even if you have not seen the films, you've heard people repeating the catchphrases... mostly from army of darkness
<diddledan> I have?
<zmoylan-pi> i wanted to like the walking dead tv series but by season 2 they were making mistakes so dumb i was rooting for the zombies
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAVSMg380qA
<diddledan> wait, evil dead isn't walking dead?
<ali1234> no?
<ali1234> pretty much the only relation is they both have zombies
<zmoylan-pi> i did like wwz the book, but saw from the trailer of the movie that they had ruined it
<popey> Only zombie movie I really like is Dawn of the Dead
<popey> Zombies roaming a shopping mall
<zmoylan-pi> for doomsday movies/tv shows/books give me triffids :-)
<zmoylan-pi> say it with flowers :-D
<m0nkey_> Turns out Kodak are bringing back Super 8 .. http://www.kodak.com/ek/us/en/Consumer/Products/Super8/default.htm
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> and here I thought I was the nutjob
<mapps> going to watch the big short;]
<mapps> evil dead films suck
<mapps> i only watched them as that series ash s evil dead is kinda based on them
<mapps> ash vs
<zmoylan-pi> bringing back film... that'll be a success... not...
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what sort of dumb friday meeting came up with that idea...
<m0nkey_> Hipsters
<zmoylan-pi> hipsters would be happy with a super8 case that held your shiny new iphone to shoot movies
<daftykins> ;]
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, even better, they beat digital movies by recording on analogue and scanning it into a digital movie format
<diddledan> nothing beats digital more than digital!
<daftykins> MOAR!
<diddledan> their digital is more digital than everyone else's digital though
<diddledan> I wonder how many people that buy that thing will go on holiday and let the airport put the film through the scanner
<daftykins> that kills film? didn't even know
<daftykins> i skipped that whole thing :D
<diddledan> a whole new generation of people need to rediscover that film is sensitive to 1) light, 2) xrays, 3) stretching
<ali1234> stretching?
<zmoylan-pi> their digital has 0's 1's and 2's!!
<diddledan> ali1234, or tearing?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, startrek! trinary!
<daftykins> i'm gonna try something daring later this month... fly to Gatwick, leave the airport, train it one station north for 2 mins, visit a post office, train it back... then fly to Spain
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> weirdo
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> if only the post office had a way to send you the thing without the travel...
<daftykins> it's me sending the thing!
<daftykins> there is method in my madness, but alas it is hush hush rockdweller speak ;)
<zmoylan-pi> if only they made post offices in other countries...
<zmoylan-pi> you could send the package to someone you know in uk to send it from there if it needs a uk post mark
<daftykins> nah
<daftykins> right, shower and bed for me
<daftykins> \o
<zmoylan-pi> weirdest package i sent was vikings to norway...
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> wait, you sent vikings TO norway?
<diddledan> isn't that backasswards?
<zmoylan-pi> i felt as an irish person it was the thing to do... :-)
<diddledan> lol
<zmoylan-pi> in this case lego vikings to norwegian friends for their wedding present.  both huge geeks really into lego
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> lego!
<zmoylan-pi> plus star wars lego coz, well they're geeks
<diddledan> apparently the PS4 runs a heavily modified freebsd
<zmoylan-pi> had to use 2 hp pc boxes to make a box big enough to hold all the sets
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't fit in post office hatch, had to open door to take it in
<zmoylan-pi> didn't someone get linux running on ps4 in last few days... till sony shuts them out with a patch i suppose
<ali1234> they used an old firmware... lready patched
<diddledan> I heard something along those lines, yeah
<ali1234> it was a webkit exploit
<mapps> i thought linux alredy ran on the ps4?
<zmoylan-pi> that was the ps3, till sony removed the option
<zmoylan-pi> dumbest thing sony ever did
<mapps> i thought one uses linux officially some custom one
<zmoylan-pi> it did, the ps3 had 'other os' option but sony removed it and annoyed a suprisingly large number of people
<mapps> hm
<mapps> this big short is ok
<mapps> did you see evil dead?
<mapps> sleep time soon
<mapps> anyone here ue kodi/xbmc?
<diddledan> ergh: http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2016/jan/06/north-korea-major-announcement-artificial-earthquake-nuclear-test-site-live?CMP=fb_gu
<mapps> hm
<mapps> finished the big short:D
<Gsp> Hi, are you interested to to help me with a survey for my startup ?          http://goo.gl/forms/JizEdZWM5Y
<mapps> in a bit
<Guest88069> morning all
<MooDoo> morning even
<knightwise> morning peeps
<MooDoo> :)
<knightwise> Just setup a brand new Raspberry pi install at home. Using the dietpi distro, pretty sweet
<knightwise> you can add and subtract whatever you want to run on the pi using simple scripts
<pwaring> Is that at a higher level than apt-get?
<knightwise> nah, dont think so , just some clever scripts
<knightwise> hey cleder
<davmor2> Morning all
<Gsp> Morning
<cleder> morning
<MooDoo> morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: Morning dude how you feeling today other than hating virgin
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> makemkv not working for me :(
<foobarry> "application failed to initialise"
<davmor2> foobarry: did you you follow all the instructions in the right order
<foobarry> there's instructions?
<foobarry> there's a forum post
<foobarry> however i discovered that makemkvcon might be all i need
<davmor2> foobarry: and there are instructions on the post and a readme file iirc
<foobarry> the configure make make install did work for the gui though, and the bare forum post intrucctions
 * foobarry checks for readme
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i'm ok thanks, just waiting for my new books
<Gsp> Can you help me to share a survey for a new laptop concept ?     http://goo.gl/forms/JizEdZWM5Y
<andylockran> morning!
<Myrtti> time of day
<pendulum> Hiya
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> JamesTait: Oh hey you're here now ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9lFqxGGCXQ
<JamesTait> davmor2, I'm not, not really. It's a cunning illusion.
<JamesTait> davmor2, I feel old now!
<davmor2> JamesTait: good one for todays topic though right :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hey dude
<JamesTait> davmor2, yep. Happy Technology Day. âº
<JamesTait> "There's the dance floor - get on it!"
<davmor2> JamesTait: No I'm older than you I'll prop up the bar with moodoo and watch you young whippersnappers act like fools on the dancefloor
<MooDoo> :)
<foobarry> just discovered a tool called "name my tv series"
<foobarry> really handy
<foobarry> for setting correct names on files
<knightwise> foobarry: that sounds cool
<knightwise> to make the DL's plex compatible
<foobarry> rips
<foobarry> yeah
<knightwise> rips , of course
 * bigcalm grumbles at network stuff
<bigcalm> My work work station has decided not to connect to the office router. Either via ethernet cable or via wifi
<bigcalm> But I can connect to my mifi wifi
<bigcalm> Ethernet cable from wall is connected to desk phone, that works. Plugging the workstation into the wall still doesn't work
<bigcalm> What's happened, any way I can debug this?
<bigcalm> Rebooting my workstation has not helped
<bigcalm> Rebooting the office router during office hours, when everybody else can use it okay, is not really an option I have
<bigcalm> From /var/log/syslog: http://paste.ubuntu.com/14420092/
<SuperMatt> "DHCPv4 request timed out" There's a problem with the DHCP service on your network
<SuperMatt> meaning you can't be offered and IP address
<SuperMatt> you may be able to create a static ip for now
<bigcalm> I'll try that
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Yep, setting a static IP address worked
<bigcalm> Thanks
<bigcalm> Computers suck
<SuperMatt> yeah, I hate them so much
<foobarry> i hate printers and dvds
<SuperMatt> oh god, printers are the worst
<foobarry> i am still fighting with a good CLI dvd ripping solution
<SuperMatt> I understand why they're so goddamn complex, but for 99% of offices, the only options that are needed are "colour [y/N]" and "two-sided [Y/n]"
<SuperMatt> You could then have one other printer in the office which has different paper sizes, which only certified individuals can print to
<foobarry> ripping tv shows sucks
<SuperMatt> well yeah, but that's because bbc will constantly change the way their site works in order to prevent dirty pirates, like you
<foobarry> no, i have the DVDs
<foobarry> i just want to watch them on my tablet
<SuperMatt> oh
<SuperMatt> well Ububtu used to come with a good ripper
<SuperMatt> but I can't remember what it was called
<DJones> SuperMatt: Wasn't that handbrake or devede
<SuperMatt> I think it was devede
<SuperMatt> tbh, I just watch everything on netflix
<SuperMatt> but if it's not there, I will exercise my right to use a competative service
<SuperMatt> whether that is legal or not is neither here nor there
<foobarry> the tedium is when 7 titles are on a disc and only 4 are real programmes
<DJones> Might have been handbrake, that seems to be a dvd ripper, while devede was for creating dvd's
<SuperMatt> you're probably right
<foobarry> handbrake is good but even the cli requires manual interaction
<foobarry> i'm sure somebody has the correct bash script somwehere to make it all easy
<SuperMatt> you could write it all yourself, of course ;)
<SuperMatt> bash is nice and easy realy
<foobarry> bash is, although finding the correct options and undesrtanding dvd title format...
<foobarry> oh, just found lsdvd
<SuperMatt> you just want to be able to put a dvd in, execute a script, and walk away, right?
<SuperMatt> huh, I've never noticed this before, but chrome now gives me arabic autocomplete in the omnibar
<foobarry> SuperMatt: yeah, with movies its easy
<SuperMatt> it has probably been doing that for an age and I've never noticed though
<foobarry> just grab the longest track
<foobarry> trying a new way now
<SuperMatt> cool
<DJones> I knew there was a reason I'd never used blinkbox...Its now been renamed "TalkTalk TV"
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> talktalk is a rubbish name
<foobarry> i never use the phone
<diddledan> yeah it's sucky - I used blinkbox because I got tesco points.. now I don't get those :-(
<foobarry> facebook is so needy when you stop using it
<foobarry> getting all sorts of notifications after only 2 days
<foobarry> android notifications, not within app
<foobarry> and emails "activity you've missed"
<DJones> Twitter does the same and then says "Do you like this"....No I don't, I didn't yesterday, or the day before, or the month before when I said I didn't like it then either
<pendulum> I mostly stopped using Facebook a year and a half ago. The longer you're gone, the fewer notifications you get.
<pendulum> They don't go completely away
<pendulum> On the rare occasion I go on to check something, I'm pretty much guaranteed to get a notification on my phone within 12 hours. I might get a second in the first 2 days, but then it usually goes back to normal.
<pendulum> I use Facebook messenger through the separate app more frequently, but that doesn't seem to effect how often I get notifications
<foobarry> i'm doing my annual get off social media and total news blackout
<DJones> INteresting, my Itel display driver for Win 8 has stopped responding, thats pretty clever as I'm using Win 10
<popey> time for an irc nick change too foobarry :)
<diddledan> DJones, impressive
<foobarry> heh
<foobarry> diplo: davmor2 , know how to get makemkvcon to produce filenames that aren't title0.mkv?
<foobarry> bah, ignore that. just realised handbrake allows for minimum track length option, so it performs everything makedvd can do
<daftykins> DJones: there's your problem! the wrong one's installed ;)
<diddledan> mapps, sky1 are advertising a new series with james nesbitt by stan lee called "lucky man". coming soon they say
<diddledan> looks good
<davmor2> diddledan: there is a new show on syfy in January called the Magicians that look like it could be good http://www.syfy.com/themagicians
<bigcalm> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0841027/
<davmor2> bigcalm: The Magicians not Magicians :P  Although that one is comedy gold :)
<bigcalm> 'tis a fun film
<diddledan> davmor2, thanks for the recommendation, another I just found on imdb is "second chance"
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-07
<mapps> yay
<mapps> sunny in philly back
<Guest2954> morning all
<knightwise> mornign
<SuperMatt> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/01/07/youre_updated_drupal_says_with_fingers_crossed_behind_back/ - this is really going to hurt. Bug in drupal updater reports you're on the latest version when you're not. That's going to be fun making sure you are safe against attacks
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo: did you like my household hierarchy guide ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah, but it's a bit wrong, I'm at the very bottom ;)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Thursday, and happy Old Rock Day! ð  ð¸
<czajkowski> aloha
<knightwise> aloha
<bashrc> happy old rock
<bashrc> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d7/Stromatolites_hoyt_mcr1.JPG
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgdufzXvjqw oldest bit of rock I know other than the stone bits
<JamesTait> davmor2, according to the page on t'internet, it's the stone bits that it refers to - but Bill Haley & His Comets covers both, right?
<davmor2> JamesTait: oh sorry old rock from the stones you wanted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YszyvXlCD2g
<davmor2> That definitely covers both there can't be any rocks older than Keith Richards face right
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<SuperMatt> ning
<davmor2> is nong the right response to a ning
<bigcalm> That was my thought process
<MooDoo> Hi All, looking at the HP microserver for webhosting as I really want to move all my stuff back in house...recommendations? or any of them?
<davmor2> MooDoo: something like http://www.serversdirect.co.uk/hp-proliant-microserver-gen8-g2020t-2.5-ghz-3mb-4gb-1x4gb-udimm-2-lff-sata-784918-425/version.asp
<MooDoo> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hewlett-Packard-Enterprise-ProLiant-MicroServer/dp/B013UBCHVU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1452163318&sr=8-2&keywords=hp+microserver davmor2
<foobarry> talking of microserver, is the optical drive on it sata only?
<foobarry> on the N54L
<foobarry> i have a blanking plate and haven't looked inside
<popey> foobarry, yea, all sata
<foobarry> ta. it has enough internal connectinos?
<popey> it has one
<foobarry> finalyl finished my mammoth script to rip tv shows "easily"
<foobarry> since the internet did not give up what i needed to ignore the short titles found on dvds
<zmoylan-pi> so... as obsolete as mammoths are extinct? :-)
<popey> the sata connector on the mobo in an annoying location
<foobarry> oh
<popey> but with small fingers you can get to it without pulling the entire mobo out
<foobarry> :o
<popey> https://paulroberts69.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/image3.png
<foobarry> i have nimble fingers
<foobarry> i may have a right angled sata too
<popey> bet it goes the wrong way :)
<foobarry> :'(
<knightwise> popey: you still on telegram ?
<brobostigon> is it possible with gpg2, to specify exactly which key you want to use with gpg2 -encrypt?
<popey> knightwise, of course
<knightwise> your nick still "popey" ?
<popey> popeydc
<popey> or just plug in my phone number
<knightwise> anyone else around here on telegram ? My contant list is so short I look like a digital hermet
<bigcalm> Despite being on plenty of social media systems, I communicate with very few of them
<bigcalm> DHL attempted to deliver my new phone today. I wasn't in and they didn't try leaving it with a neighbour. Quite miffed
<Laney> sent back to china?
<bigcalm> Thankfully they aren't that dumb. Close though
<bigcalm> I've opted to pick it up from Staples at the weekend
<czajkowski> bigcalm: did you tell them to leave it at a neighbour
<czajkowski> I was under the impression that's only done wiht the likes of DPD an dmaybe royal mail
<czajkowski> but UPS and DHL require the address it's shipped to especially if there is a signaure required
<bigcalm> czajkowski: I assumed that all couriers attempted next door deliveries as a matter of course. I now find out that DHL require permission to do this
 * Laney is forever taking parcels for the neighbours
<Laney> perils of WFH
<czajkowski> bigcalm: aye pretty standard tbh
<czajkowski> Jon had stuff being delivered today but only as I'm at home or else he'd have changed it
<SuperMatt> I would personally do that for my neighbours
<SuperMatt> mostly because I hate having to get parcels from the post office or arrange a new delivery
<czajkowski> we do the same around here also, but usually only if pre arranged
<popey> Wifey laptop arrived today via dpd
<foobarry> ugh new halifax banking site is horrid
<popey> I didn't even have time to track the guy and egg him on
<popey> he turned up way too early for my liking
<foobarry> "we changed it to look better on mobile devices" and aswful on desktop
<foobarry> which Laptop popey ?
<popey> Got her a Thinkpad X1 Carbon
<popey> which I am a little envious of
<Laney> spendy
<foobarry> non-removable battery?
<popey> yeah
<popey> well, with a screwdriver
<foobarry> ah ok
<foobarry> not glued down though
<popey> might be, but they can be removed
<popey> with a bit of effort
<popey> not something I do every day, so not an issue
<foobarry> unlike my drain cover which the patio guy cemented down
<foobarry> causing a bit of problem
<popey> hah
<popey> czajkowski, I ate all the haribo :S
<popey> I am a bad father
<czajkowski> popey: you didnt share!
<foobarry> getting a craving for jelly snakes
<popey> nope, all gone in my tummy
<czajkowski> popey: awwww next time will send you home with spares for them!
<popey> or just don't give them to me :)
<czajkowski> well there is that
<popey> organised baby sitter for wedding, so won't be bringing sprogs
<czajkowski> but I also wnat them gone from my house
<czajkowski> popey: aww coolion
<czajkowski> popey: no book a spa treatment for wifey
<popey> heh
<popey> maaaybe
<czajkowski> so when she arrives you can go booze
<popey> oh, good call
<davmor2> popey: wait you ate all the haribo they make tonnes a day dude what did you do lie at the end of a conveyor belt
<popey> poor kids all around the world
<davmor2> JamesTait: Man I wish I'd thought of this earlier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tuAkdlLhTE An old cliff face that looks the same now as it did back then :D
<Seeker`> popey: how much haribo did you consume?
<popey> More than I should.
 * Seeker` imagines popey sitting on a mountin of haribo bags
 * davmor2 buys a locked cabinet and gives the primary keys to Mrs Pope and the secondary lock keys to Master and Miss Pope to keep the Haribo safe while they are out
<popey> This laptop came with OpenOffice 4.1.2 installed
<popey> Don't think I've seen OOo for years
<davmor2> popey: don't just change the topic like that to tech talk to get out of being ashamed of eating all the haribo and ruining the lives of the poor children who are now haribo less
<Seeker`> those poor children :(
<davmor2> popey: out of interest what laptop is it and is it windows based with ooo on it
<popey> It's a Thinkpad X1 Carbon
<popey> Yeah, Windows 7 64-bit
<popey> \o/ upgrading to windows 10
<bigcalm> You're having a fun day
<moreati> Just found this bug, whilst poking 15.04. I find it highly amusing :) 1. Play audio through a displayport monitor 2. Using alsamixer mute the 1st S/PDIF channel. Result: audio mutes and the monitor goes blank, unmuting fixes it
<bigcalm> Amusing
<foobarry> my work laptop failed to update
<foobarry> unknown error
<diddledan_> lol
<diddledan_> that's a fun bug
<diddledan_> could be a great april fool joke
<moreati> It might be specific to this monitor model or to DisplayPort. I couldn't reproduce it with an HDMI TV through a DP->HDMI adaptor, or the laptop's own HDMI
<SuperMatt> https://imgur.com/gallery/WESamuu
<diddledan_> I don't get it
<foobarry> put your finger on the progress bar
<foobarry> to see if its moving
<diddledan_> oh. no, I've never done that.
<foobarry> because we have mouse pointers
<popey> i have
<diddledan_> popey: weirdo :-p
<popey> also done the puttint the mouse on screen too
<diddledan_> the easiest way to see if it's doing something is to open a process monitor (on windows that'ld be taskman.exe, on a linuxy thing top or htop or simular)
<diddledan_> flying cars: https://www.inverse.com/article/9967-human-carrying-ehang-drone-unveiled-at-ces-further-blurs-the-uav-av-line
<diddledan_> with great power comes great willingness to use it
<sebsebseb> hi
<popey> hi
<sebsebseb> popey: a bad time to buy euros it seems?
<daftykins> oh that's a point i might need some for my travels soon
<sebsebseb> popey: https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/eur/3270-massive-slump-in-pound-to-euro-343
<sebsebseb> daftykins: yeah where you going FOSDEM like me :d ?
<daftykins> i don't know what that is, but no, Spain
<sebsebseb> WOW you don't know what FOSDEM is
<sebsebseb> http://fosdem.org
<sebsebseb> daftykins: massive European open source event
<daftykins> not interested
<sebsebseb> heh not geek enough to be interested :d ?
<daftykins> i'm not sure what you're implying
<sebsebseb> I was kind of joking :)
<daftykins> yeah, just comes across quite dickish though
<sebsebseb> ever been to a open source event saying that?
<daftykins> that's a really stupid question
<daftykins> would that be an obscure hobby, to attend things then denounce them?
<popey> your sense of humour seems broken this evening daftykins
<popey> sebsebseb, yeah, I'm considering going, not sure yet
<sebsebseb> popey: did you go last year 2015?
<sebsebseb> I think you did
<popey> yes
<sebsebseb> just didn't see you there then
<daftykins> common result of #ubuntu idiots
<sebsebseb> daftykins: oh
<daftykins> but i still don't like sebsebseb's approach
<popey> alright.
<sebsebseb> popey: probably only time I am going abroad this year, so I'll try and make more the most of it
<sebsebseb> this time
<popey> I'm off to SCALE in a few weeks
<sebsebseb> your going tO SCALE WOW
<sebsebseb> with Canonical funding you to go though?
<popey> yeah, loads of us are going
<sebsebseb> oh nice
<popey> http://ubucon.org/en/
<sebsebseb> I don't have money for that one etc, at the moment, so nope not going
<sebsebseb> popey: may as well do FOSDEM again if they are going to fund  you to go :d
<sebsebseb> both I mean
<popey> Don't think they're funding me this time
<popey> Will find my own way
<sebsebseb> looks  like a good Ubuntu turn out on the link you gave though
<zmoylan-pi> ...will blog for tickets... :-)
<sebsebseb> for which?
<diddledan_> haha: view-source:http://robot.segway.com/ <-- <meta name="description" content="Responsive Minimal Bootstrap Theme">
<diddledan_> yey, ubuntu works with my datacolor spyder out-of-the-box \o/
<diddledan_> one good xmas prezzie!
<diddledan_> sneakily ubuntu does a much more thorough calibration than the official software allows on osx
<Myrtti> I've been meaning to get a Colorhug but I can't justify it for anything
<diddledan_> the improvement over uncalibrated is immense
<diddledan_> Myrtti: I was gonna get one of those but I decided to go for the more expensive option :-p
<diddledan> http://gizmodo.com/geologists-found-a-rock-thats-older-than-earth-in-the-a-1751594778
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-08
<mapps> hi
<MooDoo> Morning all
<mapps> morning
<mapps> just watched bridge of spies..was good
<MooDoo> not seen it yet
<czajkowski> aloha
<davmor2> morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: well hello sunshine!
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy English Toffee Day! ð  ð¬
<MooDoo> morning davmor2 czajkowski JamesTait
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tnqnXJl9qE
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy
<brobostigon> hi MooDoo
<awilkins> Wily : the keyboard shortcut in Nautilus that reveals the current path has gone, or changed
<awilkins> ie. ctrl-L - you could then copy the path and paste it elsewhere
<davmor2> awilkins: lower case l
<awilkins> davmor2, Doesn't work either way
<awilkins> It's listed in the menu
<awilkins> But the menu action doesn't work either
<davmor2> awilkins: works for me on Xenial and did on wily for me too so not sure what is going on there unless there is an issue that has been introduced
<awilkins> It's happened before as far as I can Google, so it may be a regression
<foobarry> how can i check if x is between 3 and 6 in bash without 2 checks?
<foobarry> i want: if [ 3 < $x < 6 ]; then echo yes; fi
<foobarry> rather than 3 < $x && $x < 6
<foobarry> meh, not sure its possible
<awilkins> Xenial is really going python3 only?
 * awilkins presumes bzr has been ported
<awilkins> And how does supporting Snappy packages reconcile with apt?
<popey> pretty sure bzr doesn't depend on python2
<awilkins> It still had some 2-isms last time I did anything to it, but that was aaaages ago
<foobarry> my 3 line script to rip tv shows is now over 100 lines :(
<zmoylan-pi> rewrite in perl to have it all on one line :-)
<foobarry> and set all my variables to one letter
<awilkins> Arrgh, Chromium won't download to SMB shares. Annoying.
<zmoylan-pi> it'd be just like my first programs on zx spectrum, i'd scroll for days... :-)
<davmor2> awilkins: look under /run/user/1000/gvfs
<awilkins> davmor2, Still fails
<davmor2> awilkins: :(
<awilkins> My Firefox instance is tied up
<awilkins> Oh, ok, it's done
<awilkins> Running a scrape on a website that doesn't implement an API for the data
<awilkins> Hoorah for shell scripts and GreaseMonkey
<awilkins> Problem with Ubuntu's use of ecryptfs for home folder encryption : the filename encryption means that it can't store filenames longer than 140 chars.
<awilkins> Some stupid doofus has used filenames longer than 140 chars for some business documents. Now Syncthing is having a frenge.
<zmoylan-pi> find doofus and run script to rename all his files 8.3 to slow them down a smidge
<awilkins> Not a doofus I can control, sadly
<awilkins> Salesdoofus
<MooDoo> :)
<diddledan> lol @ typo on ubuntu-devel-discuss "Stud support for sslversion TLSv1.2" <-- I'm a stud, can I support it?
<diddledan> oh maybe it's not a typo
<diddledan> perhaps I just don't understand the meaning - there's mentions within the email over stud being a particular ssl thing
<zmoylan-pi> a badly chosen code name?
<diddledan> https://github.com/bumptech/stud
<awilkins> Solution to the stupid long file names #1 : remove the Sales share from my cloud sync client. Problem with this : the preferences dialog on the cloud sync client is broken.
<diddledan> ouch
<diddledan> well there's lots of marketing mumbo jumbo on http://www.ubuntu.com/cloud/lxd but it doesn't actually help me understand what it is
<Laney> hypervisor for lxc
<diddledan> yeah I don't really grok what that's saying
<Laney> do you know what a hypervisor is?
<diddledan> I thought I did
<diddledan> I'm less sure now
<Laney> it lets you spawn and manage lxc instances
<diddledan> I thought lxc did that out-of-the-box?
<Laney> I think it'd be easier if you tried it
<Laney> then you would immediately see what it offers
<davmor2> I just wish I could use lxd to boot test the desktop isos it would be faster and easier
<davmor2> :( 1st world problems
<davmor2> I finally got uefi working in kvm via virt manager so that made me happy
 * Laney hands davmor2 an Advanced Virtualisation scout badge
<davmor2> Laney: I spent ages trying to build a uefi img turns out there is one in the archive :D
<Laney> O_O
<zmoylan-pi> but you learned something while doing so...
<davmor2> Laney: install virt-manager and ovmf  then in the final edit switch bios to point to OVMF.fd and then you get a uefi bios instead :)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: yes don't try and create a uefi bios.bin it is painful and rarely builds
<davmor2> Laney: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19knRjL9w3Q youtube was my friend :)
<foobarry> almost sliced my thumb off trying to pop out the metal template of the hp microserver when trying to install a dvd drive
<foobarry> popey was right. sata cable 90 angle was the wrong way
<mappps> hey all
<mappps> ya some of these edges are sharp on cases
<mappps> goosebumps film eh
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-09
<sebsebseb> hi
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> :D
<mapps> raining loads here, boo
<knightwise> morning mapps
<mapps> morning knightwise
<knightwise> playing around with my Synology here , trying to get Sonarr to work
<mapps> not sure what either are
<mapps> next film il watch...the revenant :)
<daftykins> synology \o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls
<mapps> lot of long films recently
<mapps> 1hr50 into the revenant
<penguin42> is there 1h50 of material?
<mapps> its prettygood:)
 * zmoylan-1i hands mapps a copy of seven samurai for a quick movie...
<BanjaxxeD> anybody chatting?
<daftykins> such patience
<Myrtti> https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/407rsp/skrolli_is_a_finnish_indie_computer_magazine_that/
<foobarry> ERROR: dvdnav: Read Error, Error reading NAV packet.
<foobarry> ^^ popped a dvd drive in my hp microserver, but it doesn't rip dvds
<foobarry> :(
<foobarry> not sure if software or hardware issue
<penguin42> probably dvdcss
<foobarry> got the dvdcss etc installed
<zmoylan-1i> write a script to recognise the dvd and download a copy from internet :-)
<penguin42> foobarry: Region thing?
<foobarry> tried regionset :(
<foobarry> tried disabling dvdnav too
<foobarry> could be a weird dvd drive
<zmoylan-pi> or a wacky dvd
<zmoylan-pi> i've had a few put up a good fight to been ripped
<foobarry> tried a few
<foobarry> even bagpuss
<foobarry> weirdly i can play a dvd
<zmoylan-pi> then not the dvd hardware to my mind
<foobarry> oh it looks like its working with Dune
<foobarry> which doesn't have "Copy Protected" written on the back
<penguin42> foobarry: I seem to remember there's a setup phase in dvdcss you have to get right
<dogmatic69> anyone tried out docker?
<penguin42> popey: Where are the repos for mate on 14.04 ?
<popey> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mate-dev
<penguin42> popey: Thanks
<popey> np
<penguin42> since I've almost got my dads laptop upto a minimal minimal 14.04
<foobarry> oh...
<foobarry> seems that a reboot is required for dvdcss
<foobarry> magically the dvds work now
<penguin42> popey: Excellent; installing about 1900 packages; which just shows how little this machine had in - it was debootstrapped just to the point I could login :-)
<popey> haha
<penguin42> 10.04 install off media, debootstrapped precise into /precise, fun with chroot and bindmounts to swap / and /precise (although I guess I could have done it from the 10.04 CD?)  then do-release-upgrade to trusty
<penguin42> hmm I should actually try a modenr X on it
<daftykins> this is so cool, GDQ has a bot playing nintendo DS 'Brain Age' or whatever
<daftykins> http://twitch.tv/gamesdonequick
<penguin42> hmm, I guess it's time to try a different X/kernel pair; the current one I have in has a mach-64 xserver, but not the kernel module
<penguin42> hmm, maybe that's just not compiled any more
<daftykins> o0
<daftykins> i just solved a pretty funky combo with an OpenVPN issue
<penguin42> what's that then?
<penguin42> ah, forcibly removing the mach64 x server solved it
<daftykins> I was having issues making use of an OpenVPN connection off my android phones, i'd connect in but have no DNS or web browsing connectivity. I eventually spotted iptables and ufw weren't loaded on my digitalocean VPS... then saw i'd managed to accidentally tell it to load a 64-bit kernel on a 32-bit host, so the insmod had failed preventing routing from working
<daftykins> On DO, you log into the control panel and pick the running kernel from a kind of clever search box/dropdown combo - so i'd obviously messed up the last time i was there :)
<daftykins> funny how absolutely everything else was fine prior, though
<penguin42> hth did you end up with a 64bit kernel on a 32 bit host
<daftykins> DO VPSs are kinda funky, even if you install updates they don't boot the newest, you always have to go in and set it - so the field has "Ubuntu 14.04 x64 vmlinuz-3.13.0-74-generic" for example
<daftykins> i needed x32 of course
<daftykins> when i started typing in the version to narrow down the search field, i probably lazily selected the wrong one
<penguin42> hmm - what it's not doing is detecting an external monitor
#ubuntu-uk 2016-01-10
<mapps> the revenant was pretty good:)
<mapps> finished it in my break:D
<daftykins> <o/ \o>
<daftykins> i don't know what that is
<daftykins> but wooo
<mapps> the film
<mapps> dicaprio
<mapps> off today yay
<mapps> sleep early, wakeup early.rgister as being a gib resident finally
<mapps> what to watch next
<mapps> do you remember the goosebumps books
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
 * penguin42 wishes there was a bit more standardisation of stuff between electricity suppliers - something you could easily follow the stages of a move
<diddledan> daftykins: <o/ \o> is two guys fencing, isn't it?
<diddledan> en guarde!
<mapps> ello
<brobostigon> evening mapps
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-02
<knightwise> morning
<zmoylan-pi> minus a million points for been a monday...
<knightwise> good morning zmoylan-pi
<knightwise> how are you doing man :)
<zmoylan-pi> haven't slept yet...
<knightwise> I just got up, drove through the snow for about an hour to work. Soothing :)
<zmoylan-pi> gritters were out in force yesterday passing me 3 times... but been so close to the sea i doubt there'll be snow or much ice
<knightwise> what are gritters ?
<zmoylan-pi> spreading salt to make the roads safer in freezing conditions
<knightwise> ah , yes , those were active yesterday but first it rained and THEN it started to snow
<knightwise> Been setting up my pi2 yesterday at home. Going to have it replace my VPS
<knightwise> would be silly to spend 60 euros on a 'virtual' machine since I can spend that ammount and just buy a new pi
<zmoylan-pi> and still have enough to order pizza
<knightwise> switching machines
<knightwise> there ya go
<knightwise> damn its quiet here
<SuperEngineer> knightwise: BOO!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> hey brobostigon
<knightwise> hey SuperEngineer
<knightwise> you scared me there :p
<brobostigon> hi knightwise
<knightwise> All the best for 2017 and all that
<SuperEngineer> best "year of the new" wishes to all [ /me thinks...  that's a game title there]
<awilkins> Anyone know how big the new Ubuntu mug is?
<czajkowski> decent cup of tea size
 * brobostigon 's tea mug is a bucket.
<SuperEngineer> Lake Geneva gets jealous when it see my coffee mug
<brobostigon> :)
<SuperEngineer> On this day in history:  http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/01/ubuntu-phone-os-unveiled-by-canonical
<penguin42> heck I hate websites that have 'live chat' systems for assistance and after filling in the detials they tell you they're still closed for xmas
<penguin42> Azelphur: hmm there's something odd on that grpahics card order; the order shows it as the graphics card, if I click through it shows it as a LED strip ribbon, but the picture on the order is of the strip ribbon but the picture and details on the click through show the graphic card
<Azelphur> penguin42: I noticed that too, for bonus points, if you go to my orders using the mobile app, it shows the picture of the graphics card and not the LED strip, apparently.
<Azelphur> and in the order confirmation emails it shows a pic of the graphics card too
<Azelphur> penguin42: I ended up buying...a few...my friends all stepped in and had an intervention when I got to 30
<penguin42> Azelphur: Poor thing is very confused
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<popey> Azelphur: not that you're gonna get a single one of them
 * penguin42 probably agrees, or worse I might end up with a case light
<popey> yeah, the picture is of https://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-LD02-05BL-Vegas-Strip-Light/dp/B009P1UQIG
<popey> I see a load of whingers in the amazon review already
<Azelphur> popey: hehe probably not, figured it was worth a giggle
<popey> i expect email when scan get back to work tomorrow morning
<popey> or 30 mails in your case :)
<zmoylan-pi> yes... come down in person to the depot to pick up your 30 cards... :-P
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: Well, actually with that vendor you can
<zmoylan-pi> they'll be delighted to see you, they'll have rolled out the red carpet for you... well any bit of carpet to be honest.  just something to soak up the blood... :-P
<DJones> Afternoon all and happy new year
<penguin42> DJones: HNY
<DJones> Heh, just looking at a job advert for a "PC Technician", "Experience using Amazon, eBay, Facebook, Gumtree and Twitter would be advantageous." what does that have to do with becoming a PC Technician
<diddledan> allo
<zmoylan-pi> it passes the time waiting for flippin windows to reboot in between making minor changes... :-D
<penguin42> DJones: They trawl Gumtree/facebook/twitter looking for people with broken PCs?
<DJones> I think both you are right, it is Cash Generator
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> some Cash Generators are company stores, some are 3rd party
<DJones> https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJob.aspx?JobID=39214532&JobTitle=PC+Technician&redirect=http%3a%2f%2fjobsearch.direct.gov.uk%2fhome.aspx&pp=25&pg=2&where=wa7+6ls&sort=rv.dt.di&rad=20&rad_units=miles&re=3&AVSDM=2017-01-02T12%3a33%3a00-05%3a00
<penguin42> they do try and sell some of their stuff on eBay as well
<DJones> Cash Generator is the UK's most successful Buy and Sell store with outlets nationwide. We are based in Warrington and currently looking for a PC Technician to join the team.
<DJones> The successful applicant will have strong IT technical skills and be able to restore operating systems on laptops-desktops, fix laptops, tablets and mobile phones.
<zmoylan-pi> the hired person would be taking the job of a bot on the internet?! :-D
<penguin42> DJones: It might also be that they're using them for pricing stuff
<DJones> Probably yes to both of those suggestions
 * penguin42 does occasionally find useful things in places like that
<zmoylan-pi> but it's retail so it sounds like you'd have to actually talk to custards...
<penguin42> as in We'll offer you <deep breath>Â£2.50 for that
<zmoylan-pi> 'i bought a cable here last week and now my computer is infected, it's you fault!'
<DJones> I'm sure in retail,you do get the occasional intelligent customer, but 99/100 the salesperso n doesn't have a clue what you're asking (Curry's, PC World etc)
<penguin42> with some stuff I've bought from places it might be; the stuff often requires a good scrub down
<DJones> penguin42: Yep, normally with flea powder
<penguin42> nod
<zmoylan-pi> and don't forget your blacklight...
<DJones> Sheesh, just realised, this is the 1st time in 3 weeks I've been able to use my laptop, its spent the last 3 weeks buried under a 6" christmas tree (that my wife got) that was supposed to easily fit in the space
<zmoylan-pi> 6 inch?
<DJones> hmmh, 6'
<zmoylan-pi> or do you mean 6' (foot)
<diddledan> lol
<DJones> Personally, I'd leave them in the box & put straight in the loft
<belgarion> irc: //irc.bitspyder.net/bitspyder
<diddledan> that sounds like a filesharing room
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<DJones> I always used think pocketlint was an advertiser/spammer with a bit of knowledge, I now realise that its just a troll that whinges about things it hasn't even tested
<DJones> pocketlint whinge that google calendar doesn't show the current date on its icon, just always show's 31st (unlike Apple which shows the correct date)......screenshot in article suggest they've been paid by Apple to make negative stories up about the pixel phone http://cdn.pocket-lint.com/r/s/650x/assets/images/phpxek6yl.jpg When was 19th the same as the 31st
<daftykins> more kittens! https://www.dropbox.com/s/yi8pwnbwqa6c7xv/VID_20170102_163935.mp4?dl=0
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/s0hz6p8umax32rh/IMG_20170102_185327.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> apparently the polystyrene packaging from some old equipment makes for good kitten beds
<zmoylan-pi> won't they try and eat it... i know cats...
<daftykins> maybe, wasn't me that chose to put it down though, so i'm hands off on this one :>
<zmoylan-pi> just that every cardboard box ends up soggy and well chewed by cats as well as scratched to buggery
<diddledan> DJones: never let facts get in the way of a good story!
<zmoylan-pi> a good post truth story for the post crimbo period... :-)
<diddledan> fake news is true reporting!
<diddledan> none of this citing your sources rubbish
<zmoylan-pi> this message has been brought to you by the ministry of truthâ¢
<Azelphur> Woo, my game client server is working
<Azelphur> that is, my home server running Linux, running Windows with a physical gpu attached for gaming inside KVM
<diddledan> does anyone use zram?
<diddledan> just curio about an email to the ubuntu-devel mailing list is all
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-03
<ali1234> how can i move /var onto a USB drive?
<knightwise> Good morning peepo's
<SuperMatt> everyone else back at school today?
<knightwise> good morning foobarry
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, Happy New Year, and happy Memento Mori! ð
<knightwise> morning james
<JamesTait> ð knightwise
<popey> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> finally cleared all the nagios alerts from my inbox
<diddledan> morning
<knightwise> morning diddledan
<diddledan> leap seconds strike back: http://arstechnica.co.uk/security/2017/01/cloudflare-leap-second-software-panic-snafu-new-years-day/
<foobarry> more mycroft delays then..
<diddledan> lol https://twitter.com/shatterfront/status/816274866336890880
<zmoylan-pi> who can forget '2b or 404, that is the question...'
<diddledan> and 'romeo, romeo, where 404 thou'
<diddledan> and of course 'it's a unix system. I know this!'
<diddledan> seriously, how did a 14 year-old have access to a UNIX system in 1995?!
<diddledan> it wasn't just any UNIX like BSD but a full-on expensive Sun Solaris
<diddledan> laaag
<Azelphur> I have successfully got PCI Passthrough via OVMF working for gaming :D
<popey> Azelphur: no comms from scan yet?
<Azelphur> I got like 80 emails from them this morning to tell me that my payment was authorised on all the orders.
<popey> hah
<Azelphur> could really do with a 1060 right now too, running my gaming efforts on a 1050 ti I nicked from my HTPC
<foobarry> does anyone play archimedes games on the raspberry pi?
<foobarry> when i tried with the new riscos about 2 years ago it didn't really work
<popey> no, i dont use any computer stuff on my pi, only consoles and arcades
<foobarry> i wanted to try native :D
<diddledan> hmm, I can't place where I know this icon from: https://twitter.com/Raspberry_Pi/status/816298050700316672
<foobarry> https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/lhfmo/who_remembers_this_little_guy/
<foobarry> desktop sheep for windows it seems
<foobarry> my stamina is dropping off
<foobarry> post festive lethargy
<diddledan> it's probably prolongued food-coma
<foobarry> i didn't manage to gain any weight :(
<diddledan> that's impressive
<foobarry> https://www.facebook.com/soverybritish/photos/a.537230579658168.1073741828.507334749314418/1234205256627360/?type=3&theater
<foobarry> i never knew that alcohol gel doesn't really work against d&v bugs
<foobarry> only helps against colds. hand washing is req'd for tummy bugs
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Yay re instals of WINDOWS, well soon
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-04
<zmoylan-pi> because your 1tb usb flash drive just isn't big enough... https://liliputing.com/2017/01/kingston-launches-2tb-usb-flash-drive.html
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> those things are enabling such craziness :>
<zmoylan-pi> perfect for emergency cat videos when zombie apocalypse happens...
<daftykins> that's true
<daftykins> i put in another 2 Pis today as yet more music streamers for my clients place
<zmoylan-pi> but you'll have to order it and fill it before trump is sworn in... :-p
<daftykins> can't sniff at Â£40 per node when you've already got a stereo there!
<zmoylan-pi> the pi's are a truly remarkable industry changing piece of tech
<daftykins> actually lets remote in and tweak their settings whilst i remember their IPs
<daftykins> lucky they're not home else i could start blaring music in their bedroom 8D
<diddledan> I'm wondering if raspi are gonna do a birthday version bump again this year
<zmoylan-pi> play a subliminal mp3 at low volume in bedroom 'give daftykins a nice bonus...' :-P
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> would be a great drive to bring to work in on first day at nsa and a pro snowden bumper sticker...
<ali1234> i just installed mythtv-ackend on a raspberry pi
<ali1234> i dont think it is going to be fast enough
<daftykins> newp :>
<ali1234> i should probably just switch to tvheadend or something
<daftykins> i know it'd make a lot of folk happy if a future Pi did HEVC 10-bit decode :>
<ali1234> mysql is the killer apparently
<ali1234> its using 25% CPU just idling
<daftykins> how's that dire net connection of yours? any improvement over the last while?
<ali1234> no, its still the same as ever
<daftykins> :<
<daftykins> can't wait until i can go do the work at a clients, he put all his sockets on the same incoming line - so i bought a proper NTE5a off ebay for Â£11 including a built in filter module - gonna make it the proper master and then slave the rest
<daftykins> doubled his connection speed last time i visited :D
<ali1234> yeah just dont tell BT
<daftykins> well, they don't exist over here but yeah, no DMC modding :D
<ali1234> and get the proper punch down tool
<ali1234> dont buy the plastic ones they are useless
<daftykins> yeah i have owned a Krone IDC for many a moon
<daftykins> gotta do those patch panels!
<daftykins> i've often wondered if they'd take a Krone away from you on flights, 'cause i needed to do stuff in Spain before now
<ali1234> i doubt it
<ali1234> but they only cost like Â£2
<daftykins> mmm more the trouble of sourcing one down there
<RockyRoad> Hello  ............
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Trivia Day! ð
<SuperMatt> morning all
<knightwise> morning foobarry
<knightwise> hey SuperMatt
 * knightwise just ordered a rasp pi II
<knightwise> III
<foobarry> my internet is uppy downy today
<foobarry> and i'm at work :(
<popey> scan order for cheap video card cancelled...
<knightwise> Put my pihole back in operation , scary to see how much of my traffic is ad related
<knightwise> good morning popey
<foobarry> have scan gone titsup?
<popey> no
<popey> they had an oopsie on amazon, a high end video card for 10 quid
<zmoylan-pi> but the suspiciously cheap card is not been sent... bad popey! :-P
<popey> Azelphur ordered like 30 of them
<awilkins> Possibly Controversial Opinion : StrongSwan is a complete PITA and not a good choice of VPN client
<awilkins> Upside : they have a great attitude to security, they are an active project, etc
<awilkins> Downside : They let their attitude to security get in the way of being actually able to use their software for it's intended purpose
<awilkins> AFAIK StrongSwan is the only VPN client that does IKEv1 for current Debian / Ubuntu that integrates with network manager
<awilkins> Sadly, you can't actually *use* it for IKEv1 via network manager
<awilkins> AFAICT there is NO VPN client that does IKEv1 + XAUTH that integrates with NM at the moment
<awilkins> Which is a shame because it's the go-to VPN config for most of the places I've worked
<awilkins> I get it, it's rubbish and old therefore we shouldn't be promoting it's use
<awilkins> You do that by making it hard to set up as a server, not by making it virtually impossible to use as a client
<awilkins> That just makes it hard to use Ubuntu as a workstation in a business that uses that flavour of VPN
<awilkins> StrongSwan even has opinions about the strength of PSK that's permissible - AFAICT if your PSK is less than 20 chars, it refuses to work because of their low opinion of the security level of that. Well, I can't tell my sysadmin to change the common PSK for 200 users just because StrongSwan says so....
<awilkins> And if you install the "strongswan" package so you can attempt to configure and run it from files / command line, it conflicts with ike / ike-qtgui (the Shrew Soft VPN client) which is rude and annoying and doesn't integrate with NM ... but does have the advantage of working for at least *some* of the IKEv1 / PSK / XAUTH connections I use.
<awilkins> (by "no VPN client" I mean, no VPN client that you can get from the main package repo)
<foobarry> https://learntemail.sam.today/blog/my-watch-runs-gnu-linux-and-it-is-amazing/
<foobarry> never wanted a smart watch until now
<zmoylan-pi> had me right up till they ran systemd :-P
<Rixon> Hi there, I have a system on Ubuntu 14.04.1 LTS with php5 installed. I've just added OndÅej SurÃ½'s PPA to get the php5.6 package and was just about to install it with apt-get when I suddenly realised I'd better ask in here: do I need to remove php5 first or will the package manager deal with that for me?
<diddledan> Rixon: I believe it'll upgrade in-place fine
<Rixon> diddledan: excellent thank you =)
<Rixon> ah, apt-get just told me: "0 to upgrade, 9 to newly install, 0 to remove and 234 not to upgrade."
<Rixon> apparently they can both be installed and run alongside eachother, but apache/nginx/whatever will need configuration files to point at /etc/php/5.6/... rather than /etc/php5/...
<foobarry> my wife put some of my usb sticks thru the washing machine cycle
<diddledan> soggy sticks!
<SuperMatt> It's to wash all the filth out of them
<SuperMatt> she knows where you store your gentlemens' special interest movies
<diddledan> ;-)
<foobarry> metal detecting?
<foobarry> airfix models?
<SuperMatt> I thought they were documentaries on the history of manhole covers
<foobarry> thats jez corbyn
<SuperMatt> You're right!
<diddledan> this is beautiful https://youtu.be/HD2zrF3I_II
<diddledan> I wonder if my nephew will ask me what the last century was like when he's a little older
<diddledan> I'll have to tell him it was all fuzzy because VHS had poor bandwidth
<diddledan> and then he'll ask my dad (his grandad) what it was like before that and he'll get the answer that it was black and white
<diddledan> I really need to build that pikea gaming table for him soon
<foobarry> my son seems confused about which generations had electricity
<foobarry> i think he's pretty much got it: bible times: no things except animals and diseases, victorian times: some things and diseases, modern times: all the things, different diseases
<daftykins> more intelligent diseases!
<daftykins> and misuse of medical advances
 * diddledan probes daftykins
<daftykins> oh and aliens!
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYXZV8CcnQU
<foobarry> shame lubotu doesn't tell us the youtube titles like other chans
<daftykins> would definitely reduce the need to click ;)
<diddledan> but that ruins the fun of me posting random links!
<Azelphur> Weird statement of the day: I just bought a GTX 1080 for my home server.
<diddledan> wat
<diddledan> o_O
<Azelphur> diddledan: it's headless too
<diddledan> you're weird :-D
<diddledan> hehe
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> diddledan: got a VM on there, passing the GPU through, I call it my Game Client Server \o/
<diddledan> aha
<diddledan> so it kinda is and isn't headless at the same time
<Azelphur> indeed
<diddledan> it's an ambiguous server
<Azelphur> indeed, and it's a server that runs clients.
<diddledan> we need to make that an industry term now
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> and we need a test to find out how ambiguous your server is and whether that is ambiguous enough to classify as an ambiguous server
<diddledan> our applications are web-scale ambiguous
<diddledan> we also have a fleet of containers running micro-ambiguous services
<Azelphur> haha
<diddledan> we also have a big-ambiguity data lake.
<diddledan> we're all-in on the ambiguous paradigm that we no-longer run normal systems
<diddledan> our cost savings are 80% compared to normal cloud computing
<diddledan> we have 110% velocity and our KPIs and ROI are improving YoY
<diddledan> anyone got to buzzword bingo yet?
<diddledan> our ambiguous synergies are streamlined and unified
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> gotta love buzzword bingo :)
<diddledan> :-)
<diddledan> especially when it involves shots
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> finally got to play elite dangerous today though, loving it
<Azelphur> can't wait to go tri screen elite dangerous
<diddledan> get an oculous
<diddledan> oculus
<Azelphur> diddledan: been tempted for a while, already spent quite a bit recently
<Azelphur> although Bitcoin is definitely making me a happy panda financially atm
<diddledan> did your 30 orders for the scan bargain get cancelled? my single one did but I'm unsure whether that was 'cos my bank account ran out of monies :-p
<Azelphur> yea they all got cancelled
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> ok
<diddledan> shame :-(
<diddledan> but I understand their reasons
<Azelphur> indeed, I bought them just figuring it was a punt
<diddledan> yup
<daftykins> Azelphur: i hope you're not like my spending mates, living from pay packet to pay packet :P
<daftykins> 'cause that's one nuts purchase right there!
<Azelphur> daftykins: nah, I work as a programmer so get paid reasonably w ell
<Azelphur> but also, have you seen the Bitcoin market recently? loving it :)
<daftykins> nope still glad to stay away from that experiment
<Azelphur> heh, I'm glad I got in
<zmoylan-pi> store your bitcoin on an 8" floppy for maximum security :-P
<daftykins> doesn't really matter what some mates are paid though, it's the way they spend it that's pretty cringeworthy :)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> daftykins: I'm a weirdo, I pretty much only by tech
<daftykins> same
<daftykins> although now i'm gonna be paying out for home maintenance since this shower of mine has been leaking through the floor below :/
<daftykins> fun and games
<Azelphur> I have a house full of kit, my 2 bed apartment has a 58" 4k TV, 4 x 40" 4k monitors, along with another 3 19" monitors, I have a PC, my home server, my 3 laptops, built a PC for my gf too, etc
<Azelphur> Yet, I sit here wearing a shirt that I've had for 10+ years with missing buttons and odd socks.
<Azelphur> but, that's me lol
<zmoylan-pi> that's easy to sort, go out and buy a dozen pairs of socks of one colour and a dozen pairs of another.  then you have socks for years with next to no hunting for socks
<Azelphur> yea, I have been tempted to just get rid of all my socks and start again with only one set of socks.
<daftykins> yeah but you buy all those super cheap deals of no-name brand crap right? ;)
<daftykins> so it could all pop tomorrow and you'd have no recourse? :>
<Azelphur> that's true too technology wise
<Azelphur> TV is a hisense, monitors are AMH korean imports
<daftykins> might want to check the ol' insurance coverage
<Azelphur> daftykins: but, that said, I made reasonable estimations when I make purchases
<Azelphur> for example, with the Korean monitors, I looked up the name brand, UK versions
<Azelphur> and worked out I could have one fail, replace it out of pocket, and have it still be cheaper
<daftykins> think that'd depend on the specs for me
<daftykins> fair bit more than just pixel count to a 4K display
<Azelphur> daftykins: they are really nice LG Panels, 4:4:4 chroma, have a wide array of inputs, even supports 4 inputs simultaniously with picture in picture
<Azelphur> iirc they are LG panels anyway, the only downside to them is they have a little b it of shadowing at the bottom of the display
<Azelphur> and one of my 4 developed an entire row of dead pixels :<
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> yeah wouldn't be worth the hassle of dealing with a return on that sort of thing
<zmoylan-pi> that call to a korean support centre must have been fun... :-P
<Azelphur> I did actually try and return it, eBay seller just ignored me lol
<Azelphur> but yea, wasn't expecting to be able to return it
<zmoylan-pi> 'press 2 to have godzilla attack the supplier'
<awilkins> Maximum security for bitcoin is print an encrypted copy of your wallet key on paper then put it in a safety deposit box
<awilkins> Then delete the electronic copies
<zmoylan-pi> think of the possabilities... it could display the score of a match you've recorded to watch later... :-P http://www.computerworld.com/article/3153953/security/ransomware-arrives-on-smart-tvs.html
<zmoylan-pi> drop the audio when the closed captions revel the name of the murderer...
<daftykins> i saw that one
<daftykins> the guy employed the new "moan at a company via twitter" to get a favourable response technique
<zmoylan-pi> helps make the company stop ignoring you
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-05
<diddledan> https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/01/04/rumors-of-cmds-death-have-been-greatly-exaggerated/
<diddledan> they don't mention that Windows itself cannot boot if cmd's infrastructure was removed
<zmoylan-pi> they've said that since 90s
<zmoylan-pi> they even tried to push that you couldn't remove internet explorer from windows
<diddledan> watching an episode of "person of interest" the ai has calculated a chance of survival of 2.7% but still selected that option rather than carry-on calculating further scenarios
<diddledan> https://twitter.com/find_evil/status/816846566799470593
<diddledan> lasers solve everything: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-38510344
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Bird Day! ð¦
<foobarry> happy bird day to you?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMat1> good day
<brobostigon> hi
<foobarry> https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/10542519
<foobarry> troll score 8/10
<evildespot> You'd need a leading close quote, Shirley
<foobarry> obviously the result of a drunken pub convo over xmas
<evildespot> involving the word "hilarious"
<TwistedLucidity> foobarry: The owner was explaining the prank on Reddit a few days ago
<TwistedLucidity> Another example http://i.imgur.com/00ir7fQ.png
<evildespot> That one would actually work (assuming injection of unescaped user input)
<TwistedLucidity> Here is the thread https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/5l47yy/someone_registered_drop_table_companies_ltd_in/dbsumjs/
<foobarry> does anyone use smokeping? running it from a docker container and not sure how to increase the freuqnecy
<foobarry> ah, think i've got it
<foobarry> when there's no vim/nano/emacs on the dock so you have the use sed to edit a file :(
<evildespot> At the risk of causing an argument (with which I will not engage :) ) a Docker container for something you can trivially apt-get install with virtually no dependencies may be a bit heavyweight
<foobarry> not true, smokeping installs a web server
<foobarry> since it creates rrdtool type graphs etc
<evildespot> it only Recommends that, IIRC
<foobarry> thats how i want to use it, so a container is perfect
<foobarry> also, containers for everything!
<evildespot> as you wish
<evildespot> but then you need to learn how to edit files in containers without expecting your favourite editor to be in the container
<evildespot> because that's not how containers (are supposed to) work
<foobarry> that depends
<Gargoyle> Anyone got any thoughts on why my Chrome no longer opens links from other apps (Doesn't seem to matter which app). Chrome launches or opens a new window, but the address bar is just blank.
<foobarry> rebooted or killed backgruond chrome processes?
<Gargoyle> Yeah. It's been doing this for a few weeks now.
<Gargoyle> This is the tail of syslog while clicking a link in slack. https://gist.github.com/gargoyle/d033dbae04b9b1442c171bcacf4d5d6a
<foobarry> http://askubuntu.com/questions/689449/external-links-are-opened-as-blank-tabs-in-new-browser-window-in-chrome
<foobarry> ?
<Gargoyle> If only I could just click that link! :P
<Gargoyle> Sweet, it worked. Nice find. Thanks
<foobarry> yay
<Gargoyle> Seems something to do with trying to add Google Hangouts changed the entries in there.
<foobarry> i have a markdown file than when exported to html, looks wonderful in the browser, but when exported to PDF, looks like a page printed from netscape in 1996, big text, etc
<foobarry> how do i get it to print or pdf a bit more nicely?
<foobarry> the html has a single centralised column that looks nicer
<foobarry> oh, pandoc does it nicely
<diddledan> frak
<diddledan> turkey has had another attack
<diddledan> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-38517847
<TwistedLucidity> That's arrests over the New Year attack, no?
<foobarry> yes. unless diddledan has been in a man cave
<diddledan> I really feel for the Turkish population because they're a country divided between east and west so they have the west's progressive society combined with the push-back from the extremists who reside in the east
<diddledan> sorry the BBC tweeted the wrong link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-38521549
<TwistedLucidity> Erdogan also appears to be a bit of a nutter
<diddledan> well there is that
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<TwistedLucidity> 'lo
<SebthreeBQM10HD> TwistedLucidity, hi
<SebthreeBQM10HD> how do I change the file system of a USB stick, using a UBuntu Live ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or how do I cut a big video file into smaller parts
<TwistedLucidity> http://askubuntu.com/questions/68809/how-to-format-a-usb-or-external-drive#69129
<SebthreeBQM10HD> TwistedLucidity, yeah got big video files that are over 4GB
<TwistedLucidity> Unless it's FAT32, it's have thought it would be fine
<SebthreeBQM10HD> so doesn't really work pr9perlly trying to put that on fat
<SebthreeBQM10HD> TwistedLucidity, yep that's the issue,  the external hard disk is fat  whatever
<SebthreeBQM10HD> my 8GB usb sticks are fat32 as well
<TwistedLucidity> Do you need to use it on Windows?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> probably not with the right codec installed for sound
<SebthreeBQM10HD> otherwise it's just images
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I did thinik this to, I either go NTFS or I  could try Ext4 or something
<TwistedLucidity> As you don't need Windows support; Ext4 and fahgeddaboutit
<SebthreeBQM10HD> right but I still got to format the usb.  opening up gparted wasn't much good, ant just makek a partion, but right let's have a look at the link
<SebthreeBQM10HD> TwistedLucidity, it did copy mostly to fat32, but then  coudlt tell wasn't going to finnish
<SebthreeBQM10HD> TwistedLucidity, I have the pain of re installing WIndows as the next thing to do with the computer as well uh!
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and upgrading things back to WIndows 10
<SebthreeBQM10HD> before any Linux  installs happen
<SebthreeBQM10HD> TwistedLucidity, planning on quad booing as well :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Windows plus three Linux distros
<TwistedLucidity> You can use NTFS, but IIRC there are performance issues with that on GNU/Linux.
<TwistedLucidity> Or were; not checked in a l-o-n-g time
<TwistedLucidity> I would thing Gparted would do it to. Just set the format after creating the single, whole-USB patition
<TwistedLucidity> No idea how well Windows 10 plays with others; never used it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> TwistedLucidity, I think NTFS is ok, unless the partion isn't shut down properly
<SebthreeBQM10HD> then may not mount properly with Linux
<SebthreeBQM10HD> that's what I remember from before
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah having to open up Windows again, and clsoing down properly, so would detect in LINUX
<MoBeats> [15:12:36]  TwistedLucidity:	As you don't need Windows support; Ext4 and fahgeddaboutit
<diddledan> https://youtu.be/ySdaJbgO5gc
<brobostigon> new job started today, woop, :)
<popey> congrats
<popey> how did it go?
<brobostigon> it went well, walked around my supervisor ost of the afternoon, picking up inforation, no realy work done to be honest.
<brobostigon> walked behind, i should say.
<brobostigon> well, we did bring out some stock and organised it, but that was about it.
<brobostigon> a toy shop, :)
<foobarry> \o/
<daftykins> \o/ what are we celebrating / stretching for? :D
<foobarry> do they sell scale models?
<foobarry> brobostigon?
<brobostigon> foobarry: yes?
<brobostigon> yes,
<foobarry> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> then it's the best kind
<daftykins> one porsch model lego set please
<daftykins> *Porsche
<foobarry> also i think knex better than lego for kids
<foobarry> my son is really enjoying actually making stuff creatively
<foobarry> and not losing bespoke pieces all the time
 * brobostigon was a maccano boy.
<foobarry> i guess knex is the closest thing nowadays
<brobostigon> fair point.
<daftykins> mmm i had the rollercoaster
<daftykins> i never made anything custom though, just followed instructions and then i was done :P
<foobarry> meccano?
<foobarry> or knew
<foobarry> x
<daftykins> knex rollercoaster, i only have very vague memories of meccano as if perhaps i never owned a model o0 not sure
<foobarry> there's some knex models that are a bit 2D, that lend themselves to being made in 3D quite easily
<daftykins> but every single variant i just followed instructions
<foobarry> some knex kits have 40 models you can make
<foobarry> so the 2D flat car could be replicated and then some joining pieces to the 2 parts to make a 3d car
<brobostigon> whereas with maccano, you can make anything, you arent fixed.
<daftykins> c'mon BBC, release the 4K blu-ray Planet Earth II :)
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Planet-Earth-Blu-ray-Region-Free/dp/B01M629REH/ only 1080p right now
<zmoylan-pi> they'll wait till people are clamouring for the 8k release before releasing the 4k version :-)
<daftykins> heh
<zmoylan-pi> and it'll be released on laserdisc :-P
<daftykins> i'll hold out for the VHS
<zmoylan-pi> and not the superior betamax version?
<daftykins> that'd require a player
<zmoylan-pi> or vcd...
<daftykins> oof
<daftykins> at leasy if i buy the client a 4K title i can keep the bluray version from inside :D
<zmoylan-pi> squished down to a 100 megs per episode... :-P
<daftykins> the 4K BD player's firmware update is 132MB!
<diddledan> *sadface* https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-04/star-trek-youtube-fan-movie-ruled-not-to-be-fair-use
<daftykins> mmhmm
<daftykins> they should've parodied it, then it would've been fine!
<zmoylan-pi> they have no probs with you making fan flicks if they're non profit so he must be trying to make dosh somewhere
<zmoylan-pi> and iirc the term tricorder has an open use that rodenberry insisted on as he just knew someone would invent a practical version someday
<daftykins> well they claimed the fan flic makers would gain from getting jobs in the industry, hah
<zmoylan-pi> stretching the truth a little there...
<zmoylan-pi> i seem to remember one fan based effort was raising money online and was hoping to make a small profit so got shut down for that reason
<daftykins> heh
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-06
<daftykins> wow a B-52 lost an engine over North Dakota... just dropped it - whoops
<diddledan> well they are heavy. it was probably worn-out
<diddledan> you'd probably drop it if you had to carry it any distance
<daftykins> would start to burn the ol' shoulder, yeah
<zmoylan-pi> there was talk in a different channel of a previous incident with a b52 when 1 engine failed and 2 fell off...
<daftykins> show-offs
<zmoylan-pi> on that day it wasn't just the pope kissing the ground on landing... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> crikey, 2TB drive still getting zero'd - have to leave it run overnight
<daftykins> g'night folks \o
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<diddledan> but it's early!
<zmoylan-pi> the router cannae take it cap'ain...
<diddledan> I wonder why irccloud has extreme lag when a netsplit occurs
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Cuddle Up Day! ð
<TwistedLucidity> JamesTait: But I barely know you. PERSONAL SPACE! PERSONAL SPACE!
<JamesTait> TwistedLucidity, you do get to choose your cuddlee, it doesn't have to be me. ð
<foobarry> what's the app i need for google assistant? will it let me dictate SMS to a named contact?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<diddledan> apparently in xenial "widgets/FollowButton.vala:48.5-48.26: error: Property `Gtk.Stack.interpolate_size' is read-only" but the source code in launchpad says otherwise
<diddledan> trying to snap-up corebird 1.4.0
<diddledan> https://github.com/AkdM/KnightTouchBar2000
<diddledan> where is everyone? it's far too quiet!
<zmoylan-pi> we're hunting wabbit
<diddledan> mm, tasty
<diddledan> be vewy vewy qwiet!
<zmoylan-pi> we'll nail that easter bunny this year!
<diddledan> to a cross?
<zmoylan-pi> a plank of wood... cutbacks you know...
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> that's a lot of network: https://youtu.be/1MzRNGlDcLs
<diddledan> I'm somewhat jealous
<zmoylan-pi> his rasp pi must just fly... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> now that's a guy who takes his netowrk cabinets seriously
<diddledan> he's probably on 8Mbps ADSL :-p
<MartijnVdS> 10GbE on copper?
<diddledan> seems so, yeah
<zmoylan-pi> copper is supposedly good over short distances... it's only on a long haul it starts to fail
<diddledan> now that's just silly: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/cd-tea/
<popey> it needs sudo
<popey> to eject a cd
<zmoylan-pi> and i recommend having an android device running kitkat when you do...
<diddledan> is that like the make me a sammich xkcd?
<diddledan> "make me a cuppa tea" .. "no" .. "sudo make me a cuppa tea"
<foobarry> ok google won't send a whatsapp message, does it work for anyone else?
<foobarry> it opens their whatsapp convo but not send it
<zmoylan-pi> and would you want anyone with less than administer rights dunking your teabag? :-)
<diddledan> yey for bugs: #1654666
<lubotu3> bug 1654666 in Snappy "snapd-xdg-open doesn't work in strict mode" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1654666
 * diddledan been working on that this eve with the folks in #snappy
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-07
<knightwise> good morning peeps
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<penguin42> Azelphur: Oh yeh, Bah!
<penguin42> (unurprisingly)
<daftykins> my my, debut demo of a fellas 4K bluray player and 90 mins in it goes out of sync (audio + video)
<daftykins> might be the HDMI cable to blame (quite old one)
<zmoylan-pi> wouldn't had that trouble with vcd... :-P
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it's just 'cause he has them all in the walls and the fools that built it didn't put in a pipe to replace them, so holes will have to be cut in skirting to get to gaps
<zmoylan-pi> they didn't read douglas adams then...
<zmoylan-pi> The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.
<daftykins> *nod* :>
<zmoylan-pi> that should be taught in schools to my mind...
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-08
<zmoylan-pi> a 7" laptop running linux... not a psion but looks interesting... http://liliputing.com/2017/01/gpd-pocket-will-7-inch-touchscreen-laptop-windows-ubuntu-support.html
<daftykins> apollo lake would make more sense
<zmoylan-pi> perhaps but i'm just glad that someone is looking to the micro market again.  i was listening to a podcast recently of someone running mame on a toshiba libretto.  a pc the size of a vhs casette
<penguin42> libretto were cute
<zmoylan-pi> they were around and got a lot of usage in places showing there is a market for very small useable hardware
<penguin42> yeh, although these days just adding a folding keyboard to a 7" tablet is probably the right thing
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i wanted one of those when i was a kid, before i settled on the Psion 3c
<daftykins> young me wanted a laptop so bad, he sold his game boy :(
<daftykins> talk about buyers remorse
<zmoylan-pi> the folding keyboards don't support the tablet well enough to use securely on a lap on a train
<penguin42> haha, the Psion was kind of nice for it's use, but not as a general machine
<zmoylan-pi> i used the psions as a main machine at home
<zmoylan-pi> ...probably explains my getting by with dumb phones :-)
<daftykins> oh man i found the 90s game 'Track Attack' by Microprose hidden in the eaves cupboard at my folks today, along with some old DOS Conan the Barbarian
<penguin42> hth did you use a psion as a main machine?!
<zmoylan-pi> it did word processing, spreadsheets, databases and i could fit all my data into those plus i could write program in opl for things i needed
<zmoylan-pi> when i switched to a psion 5 it did the internet quite well on top of the rest
<zmoylan-pi> and lived in my pocket and ran for a week on 2 aa batteries
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i do hope my dad finds my 3c eventually
<daftykins> kept it around for a crossword helping function i think
<zmoylan-pi> i remember an alarm engineer who used our accounting software asking about it and what it could do and in the time i showed him i exported his databases to a csv and read them into the psion database and showed him how it could store all his info so it was always in his pocket.
<daftykins> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> this was in mid 90s when simple data exchanges where often complicated and horrible and to do it on a mobile device...
<penguin42> back in about 95 I used it for taking notes; very good for walking around the university library in when I was reading papers on stuff doing research before it was all online
<zmoylan-pi> and none of the modern fondle slabs does the job as well
<daftykins> in about '99 i got the ok to install PsiWin on the school library 486s so i could transfer some homework and print it
<zmoylan-pi> it's why i like my qwerty based dumbphone
<penguin42> yeh the Psion keyboard was really great for thumb typing - until the hinge went
<penguin42> (Mine was the Acorn branded one)
<zmoylan-pi> there were schools using those a lot instead of school books back in the day.  tiny, weighed next to nothing. quite powerful
<daftykins> i had some game set with Horace on!
<penguin42> well, not THAT powerful
<daftykins> solid state cards!
 * penguin42 had the fileshare setup on Linux
<daftykins> the backlight was really good on the 3c
<penguin42> not bad for 2AAs
<penguin42> someone really should build a modern tablet into a Psion 3 shell with modern batteries and preferably a better hinge
<zmoylan-pi> i wish someone would make a case for the pi zero that was a keyboard and small screen like a psion 3 or 5 or even a z88
<penguin42> z88 was a bit unbalanced - big keyboard tiny screen
<zmoylan-pi> but a very comfy keyboard...
<daftykins> hmm is there any video output on any of the pin groupings so that a portable wouldn't have to use HDMI? i'm not sure how suited to low power HDMI is...
<zmoylan-pi> think of that with say a 4" modern phone screen...
<zmoylan-pi> the pis have an analog video out, it's how i attached it to scart :-)
<daftykins> you'd want to actually read something though ;)
<daftykins> composite is blech
<penguin42> daftykins: A lot of the mobile chips have MIPI I think
<zmoylan-pi> and i seem to remember some folk have hooked them up to nokia 3310 screens
<daftykins> ah har
<zmoylan-pi> so at least one part of the device would be unbreakable :-P
<daftykins> Bruce Willis'd
<daftykins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc6uCH_xtJE
<daftykins> our man in Manhattan is "making boards great again"
<daftykins> <Louis> i had a customer call me out on that... i repaired a 13" macbook air and used a BIOS chip from an 11", copying the ME region over... so they asked me if i'd made it smaller
<daftykins> because the "about this mac" said "11" macbook air" on a 13" model
<daftykins> :D
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<penguin42> anyone else see a power blip at 4am ?
 * penguin42 saw the lights go for a subsecond and looking at my logs I see my virgin cable went out at the same time (and didn't come back until a couple of hours ago)
<knightphone> hmm a raspberry powered earthquake connector
<knightphone> now thats interesting
<penguin42> hmm yeh, my cctv shows the street lights went as well
<zmoylan-pi> the hour of pi...when all the rasp pis on the planet send out a command to any physical devices they are controlling to activate at the same time...
<penguin42> (not that it's UPS backed but the PC that records it has a big PSU but only draws ~20W from it so lasts ages)
<popey> penguin42: not here
<penguin42> must have been a local squirrel being fried on a local substation
<zmoylan-pi> ninja squirrels, fighting the system
<MartijnVdS> Glitch in the matrix?
<zmoylan-pi>  i think at last count squirrels took down more power systems than hackers
<penguin42> squirrels *are* hackers
<zmoylan-pi> more gnawers than hackers
<zmoylan-pi> but their problem solving skills are not in doubt... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUDOTefoVAA
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<popey> hello
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> it's happened, i spotted my first creme egg display
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, well I ended up  with some left over christmas choclate, and mini eggs on the same day a few days bac k
<SebthreeBQM10HD> they pretty much sell easter chocolate the day after christmas here
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, daftykins in other news thats nice the fedora 25 sseemes to work well with wayland from my live
 * SebthreeBQM10HD is actsually setting up  quad boot here ;d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> Windows, plus three distros
<SebthreeBQM10HD> well unless something happens and the uefi makes it all go wrong or something
 * SebthreeBQM10HD re setting up a lap top
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, what do you personally think about well the direction of ubuntu touch etc?  seems a lot of people got things wrong on the omgubuntu link the other  day in the comments
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I guess makes sense to stop the ota's though really,  whilst things turn into ubuntu personal etc
<SebthreeBQM10HD> or snap system etc
<popey> SebthreeBQM10HD: i should update my fedora install...
<popey> i found the ssd with it on while tidying up yesterday.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, naughtye naughtey your not allowed to use other desktop Linux distros now, you work for Canonical, h eh : d
<diddledan> SebthreeBQM10HD: popey is an equal opportunities open sourcer :-p
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, well I found my HP  USB of Win 8.1 a few days ago which started all this off :d.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, you can look at things to copy from Fedora for Ubuntu though h eh :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but other then that, no other distros like that allowed, you work for Canonical, h eh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan, yeah they might get a better expereince  with Fedora :d h eh
<popey> i have an ssd which contains 4x60GB partitions. One is debian, one fedora, an arch and a suse install :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, oh
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, well I am about to quad boot now :d
<diddledan> popey: I'm ashamed, you need a Gentoo, too
<SebthreeBQM10HD> shame my last distor will need a re burn to a usb
<SebthreeBQM10HD> using something else to I think
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but ok the ubuntu 16.10 and fedora 25 usbs work
<daftykins> arch covers his Linux ricer obligations!
<popey> hehe
<diddledan> you don't know you're alive until you've spent 6 months living entirely in Gentoo compiling everything
<popey> i thought gentoo was dead ;)
<popey> in fact, i might dig that out now and update them all
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> \o/
<SebthreeBQM10HD> GNOME in wayland is sort of boring :d
<SebthreeBQM10HD> since it works so well
<SebthreeBQM10HD> h eh
<diddledan> is \o/ a bow-legged lol?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, I assume you been reaing ubunt utouch things recently, what do you think of the general direction etc ?
<popey> \o/ is arms in the air
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, you mean its all a bit uncertain ?
<diddledan> and lol is the same arms but higher :-p
<popey> eh?
<popey> I didn't say anything
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, Ubuntu touch otas on hold I read,  whilst things turn into a snappy system
<diddledan> don't believe everything you read
<SebthreeBQM10HD> then  once  snappy system older phones such as the bq's  and mx4 appranatly may not work
<SebthreeBQM10HD> with it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and 16.04 update should be coming to tablet
<SebthreeBQM10HD> and no new ubuntu phones untill snappy system
<diddledan> this whole "OMGZ0R THE END OF THE WORLD" is thoroughly detestful
<popey> its a bit bonkers
<diddledan> ^^ so much this
<SebthreeBQM10HD> diddledan, its not dead if that's what you mean,  certian people on omgubuntu thought it was though
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I know changes are coming
<SebthreeBQM10HD> but taking time
<SebthreeBQM10HD> I know the whole 15.04 based system will get dropped
<diddledan> bonkers is a good word for it
<SebthreeBQM10HD> you mean ther should be some otas in the mean time really
<SebthreeBQM10HD> ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> not just some security updates
<daftykins> although that'd be true if they hadn't released creme eggs this year
<diddledan> I nearly succumbed to creme eggs today
<SebthreeBQM10HD> yeah the Ubuntu touch devs are eating too many creame eggs, and not devloping ubuntu toch enough as a result, so had to dorp otas :d
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i saw them for the first time today, mmm
<SebthreeBQM10HD> apparnatly a bit smaller this year
<SebthreeBQM10HD> since brexit ?
<SebthreeBQM10HD> :D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> oh but your on the isalnd so
<SebthreeBQM10HD> no not sure about the cremae egg seriosly for that one ,but the toberone apparnatly became smaller because of that and cost of ingridents
<SebthreeBQM10HD> daftykins, your creame eggs would come directly from UK I assume
<popey> right, disk installed... which to update first... debian I think, expect that to succeed :)
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, well I am doing Ubuntu 16.10 now
<SebthreeBQM10HD> followed by Fedora 25
<SebthreeBQM10HD> assuming things still ok with grub etc on uefi system as well after that then yeah Mageia 5.1 as well after making a new usb for that in another way, had a problem
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, I'll have a nice quad boot after that :d
<diddledan> boot them all in separate VM simultaneously and update them all at the same time
<popey> not sure that's possible.
<daftykins> sure it is :>
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  diddledan yeah  vm's :), but for my ones got proper reaosns wanting  them alll on real hardware
<popey> guess I could point kvm at each partition
<SebthreeBQM10HD> with enoguh ram should be able to do a few vms yes
<popey> cant see that working as they'd each want exclusive access to the disk
<popey> to do mbr updating and stuff
<popey> debian has 220 packages to upgrade :D
<SebthreeBQM10HD> popey, sounds about right
<penguin42> yeh it's a little tricky to pick up something that thinks it's installed on a raw disk into a VM; it's OK if it's always been installed in it's own partition which it thinks it is it's own disk
<penguin42> or if you give the whole disk to the vm
<daftykins> probably not wise on a budget SSD to hammer it so, anyways
<diddledan> I only hammer disks when I want to be sure about erasing a file
<diddledan> e.g. that file from SIS about the illegal interrogations I stole
 * diddledan waits for a knock
<daftykins> Silicon Image Systems? that's quite the branch out :D
<daftykins> at least it means no more terrible chipsets ;D
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> so bbc iplayer - they ask you to say whether you have a license or not, but they don't actually capture any details about you as evidence
<daftykins> nope they have no feature to detect or track
<daftykins> eventually they might move to account based usage, but that's years away
<brobostigon> cant they track your ip, then fro that ip work out which isp your with, and from there do geolocation?
<brobostigon> its not, cant they, they can.
<diddledan> but how does geolocating me within the UK help them determine that I've not got a license?
<diddledan> (I have got a license, I'm being theoretical)
<brobostigon> doesnt the tv licence db, tell who has a tv licence and where?
<daftykins> goes back to the recent argument in courts that you can't guarantee a subscriber is the person using a given connection
<diddledan> yes but my IP doesn't tell them what my address is
<brobostigon> tor for exaple.
<daftykins> surely it'd be against data protection to mix that with info on ISP subscriptions
<daftykins> anyway, long story short it's an honour system right now
<brobostigon> i agree, daftykins
<diddledan> my ISP is not allowed to tell the BBC where I live, unless it is public information, due to Data Protection legislation
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/07/fm_radio_being_phased_out_in_norway/ D:
<diddledan> all my IP proves is that I'm somewhere in the UK
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/07/tv_anchor_says_alexa_buy_me_a_dollhouse_and_she_does/ - this is hilarious
<diddledan> alexa, buy porn
<brobostigon> yes, it doesnt quite work the sae as trying to geolocate my phone.
<diddledan> your phone is less likely to be locatable unless you accept the prompt to share your location via a webpage
<brobostigon> or accept i can be geolocated roughly from aerial connections.
<diddledan> that data isn't shared with websites
<diddledan> it's only shared if you say yes to the prompt
<popey> 531 updates to fedora.. it's fedora 23. I should probably upgrade it
<diddledan> what number is fedora on these days?
<brobostigon> or if there a is an order by home secretery with judicial approval to pull that data,
<zmoylan-pi> your smart tv is grassing you out... :-)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: what about my internet connected adult toy?
<zmoylan-pi> well that has you by the short and curlies...
<popey> 25 now.
<diddledan> the internet of things really does make you wonder when your sexual habbits are sent to a company HQ for analysis
<zmoylan-pi> the graph charts at meetings are probably real eye openers...
<zmoylan-pi> and you can't keep pink in any of the printers for long....
<brobostigon> maybe gchq does these kinds of things already? who knows.
<diddledan> I expect they require a user-account with other personal details such as height weight and such
<diddledan> I wonder whether anyone has designed a 3D printable thingy yet?
<zmoylan-pi> probably first thing printed out...
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> like knorks were the first ever image sent over the network?
<diddledan> followed-shortly by the virus which pretended to be knorks
<popey> whee, upgrading fedora 23 to 24, 1580 packages to do
<daftykins> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/01/06/uk_cases_highlight_different_routes_taken_by_prosecutors_over_the_supply_of_modified_tv_settop_boxes/
<daftykins> ooh that'd be nice to get all those pesky android box slingers finished off
<deltaforce> Hello
<daftykins> lo
<diddledan> "Under section 296ZB(1)(c)(i) of the CDPA, it is an offence if a person, in the course of a business, sells or lets for hire any device, product or component which is primarily designed, produced, or adapted for the purpose of enabling or facilitating the circumvention of effective technological measures."
<diddledan> surely if you are able to circumvent then you can claim they're ineffective technological measures?
<daftykins> yay Louis \o/ https://youtu.be/LUvyosaLW8o
<zmoylan-pi> you could ban screwdrivers with that
<diddledan> daftykins: he's making a huge mess of that board
<popey> ooh, fedora 23 to 24 upgrade finished.
<daftykins> nah they start as a mess :)
<daftykins> then they work and they still are, 'cause they're fruity tech ;)
<popey> wheee, now Fedora 24->25 in progress
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> you and your updates!
 * diddledan updates daftykins . quite hard.
<daftykins> err
 * zmoylan-pi points and laughs at daftykins new theme...
<daftykins> oh my Tux, my cat is eating an envelope
<diddledan> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> that'll teach the dog pound to solicit donations...
<zmoylan-pi> and video it for a get out of jail 'the cat ate my tax return' :-)
<daftykins> :D
<zmoylan-pi> if the internet is any guide, there's no jury that will convict someone who gives them cat videos... :-D
<daftykins> https://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews/B0154RIT60/
<daftykins> wow that bluray i watched was potentially a bad release
<daftykins> two others have a bad experience
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-01
<zmoylan-pi> happy new year o/
<daftykins> happy new year sir
<daftykins> i thought Ireland had a time of its' own :D
<zmoylan-pi> well we were off set in dublin by 25 minutes until 1916... https://www.buzz.ie/news/dublin-lost-its-own-time-zone-after-the-1916-rising-39579
<zmoylan-pi> if you're heading to belfast just set your watches back 300 years... :-P
<daftykins> well well, war going on and they found time to quibble... time
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-02
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/happy-new-year-linux-journal-alive
<MooDoo> howdy all
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> happy new year to you sir
<MooDoo> and to you :)
 * zmoylan-pi cracks whip made of cat 5 cables... 
<zmoylan-pi> back to work!!
<daftykins> ah the ol' cat o' 5 tails :D
<MooDoo> been here since 5:45 :)
<daftykins> :O someone's keen
<daftykins> family drive you that mad? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> he's in work foraging for any last terry's chocolate oranges that might be there... :-P
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> woot 275GB SSD for Â£58
<MooDoo> lol just my time to be in early today, get to finish at 2 :)
<daftykins> :O
<knightwise> hey guys , I wanted to know : What is the correct telegram equivalent of this channel ?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<foobarry> knightwise: is there such a thing? is it popular?
<foobarry> this chan is basically dead now
<MooDoo>  it's certainly not as busy as it used to be
<foobarry> and the ubuntu community ppl who used to be here have essentially left
<MooDoo> everyone moved on when they got made redundant
<zmoylan-pi> so many channels, so many users...
<foobarry> is there a lively telegram chan then?
<foobarry> http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/happy-new-year-linux-journal-alive
<knightwise> foobarry: where did they go ?
<czajkowski> aloha
<knightwise> hey czajkowski longtimenoC
<czajkowski> I know
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> I am here
<czajkowski> just foroget to say hi
<knightwise> foobarr was just mentioning the fact that this channel has become very quiet of late
<foobarry> mainly since that spinach loving sailor left
<knightwise> I looked around on telegram to see if they moved over the chatter over there but there is just a podcast channel with the announcements of new shows and tha tis it
<foobarry> ever felt there's a party happening somewhere but u aint invited?
<czajkowski> there is an Ubuntu telegram chat
<czajkowski> I have it on mute as it can get very chatty which is nice
<ali1234> which is best, epub or mobi?
<knightwise> ali1234: i perfer epub because its more universally accepted
<zmoylan-pi> haven't seen a mobi reader/file in ages...
<nucc1> Hi guys, i've just spent thepast 2 hours trying to get an ubuntu install working on my Nvidia powered UEFI system and I can't help but wonder: Why doesn't the installer automatically set "nomodeset" in the grub file when it knows i'm using nvidia?
 * nucc1 sighs :(
<nucc1> the little paper cuts that make for a very frustrating experience. anyhoo. time to reboot now that i've installed nvidia drivers. Hopefully, these drivers know what to do to get my display working.
<m0nkey_> Installing Ubuntu from the Microsoft Store feels... wrong.
 * zmoylan-pi dusts off some 3.5" floppies for m0nkey_ 
<daftykins> o0
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> howdy all
<foobarry> amazon kindle app/readers don't support epub
<knightwise> foobarry: indeed , i have a kindle and needed to convert my entire calibre library to mobi
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
 * knightwise misses his escape key on his mac
<Nafallo> morning
<MooDoo> :)
<EdS> Hi there, I wonder if someone could help me with something systemd and snap related? I would like to change the log level of a daemon that's installed as a snap and run by systemd. My attempts to restart this daemon wiht a new log level are failing!
<foobarry> an album i want to buy is 10.99 on google play and 7.99 on amazon :|
<foobarry> Google such a ripoff
<foobarry> http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/smartphone-apps-listening-privacy-alphonso-shazam-advertising-pool-3d-honey-quest-a8139451.html
<foobarry> âThe audio signatures are compared to commercial content that is playing on your television, including content from set-top-boxes, media players, gaming consoles, broadcast, or another video source (e.g., TV shows, streaming programs, advertisements, etc.).
<foobarry> âIf a match is found, Alphonso may use that information to deliver more relevant ads to your mobile device. The ACR software matches only against known, commercial audio content and does not recognize or understand human conversations or other sounds.â
<NET||abuse> hey guys, i've two laptops with usb-c ports, i was wondering about doing direct laptop to laptop transfer
<NET||abuse> anyone know if that's possible?
<diddledan> ho boy: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/02/intel_cpu_design_flaw/
<zmoylan-pi> maybe they can boost the performance of the cpus post fix by adding the me cpu's efforts... :-P
<foobarry> the stock price is doing ok still
<zmoylan-pi> didn't someone dump a bit of stock recently?
<foobarry> yeah but off the back of a good year
<zmoylan-pi> intel has reached a point were even with a cockup this big there is no alternative... too big too fail sort of thing
<foobarry> AMD chips aren't affected
<foobarry> this could be their vw moment
<foobarry> doing bad things to get speed
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry they'll ruin the chance somehow
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-04
<daftykins> still loads of issues with AMD Ryzen kit under Linuxso i hear
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<daftykins> heya :)
<brobostigon> hi daftykins :)
<daftykins> how's the morning looking?
<brobostigon> cloudy.
<daftykins> :D
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> RHEL updated their kernel. waiting for centos still :(
<daftykins> there are no full fixes for both, so there won't be any feeling of comfort :)
<foobarry> one is trivial to exploit with javascript
<daftykins> https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/1/3/797
<BobMottram[m]> Epic Linus
<daftykins> goodness me, i'm trying out BBC Planet Earth II in 4K and HDR on my TV
<daftykins> this really has to be seen to be believed
<ali1234> i must say, the way that exploit works is really clever
<ali1234> a timing attack on the cache
<daftykins> funky
<MooDoo> howdy all
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan> https://www.macrumors.com/2017/12/27/lisa-source-code-free-release-2018/
<zleap> i read about that
<daftykins> oh dear lord these fools talking the CPU issue news and talking about how their games might slow down...
<daftykins> oops s/talking/taking/
<diddledan> haha
<diddledan> gotta keep the fps up
<daftykins> let's make that faceslaps per second for this one :>
<diddledan> because more fps == more accurate shooting. who cares that the frames are displayed on a static 60Hz display (ignoring freesync because that's voodoo)
<diddledan> with freesync, if you're maxxing your gfx at 15fps does that mean you get flicker that wouldn't be visible on a nonfreesync screen because the nonfreesync would still display 60Hz?
<daftykins> freesync and g-sync techs are variable refresh, so it's only gonna draw when it's getting updates, i'm not sure what the minimum bound is though
<diddledan> yeah so if it doesn't get an update then surely it'll go blank?
<daftykins> might just repeat the prior
<diddledan> voodoo
<daftykins> you wouldn't be letting it go that low anyway though xD that'd be a lot of money to blow and be daft enough to run the settings so high it's at slideshow
<diddledan> morons be morons
<diddledan> new gpu and monitor == turn the settings to 11
<daftykins> it is a shame you have to pick a card and go with that tech though, if Vesa had moved faster there would be a standard against DisplayPort that everyone could be benefitting from
<diddledan> yeah, and freesync is incompatible with gsync and vicky verky
<diddledan> afaict that is
<diddledan> I assume the cable for a gsync monitor is called the g-string?
 * daftykins groans
<diddledan> it wasn't that good
<daftykins> i haven't seen one of these fancy displays in action yet, tbh
<diddledan> oh you weren't groaning from ecstasy?
<daftykins> well, i was at a mates who had one and played a bit of Doom but wasn't convinced it was working
<diddledan> doom .. on gsync .. 5000fps?!
<diddledan> seriously overpowered
<daftykins> i actually can't get it to run now i've got my PC on the new OLED TV, just insta-crashes
<daftykins> haven't been bothered to put more time into resolving it
<diddledan> weird
<daftykins> think it could be a result of installing the game and its' deps prior to a new windows build going on, which could've ruined something in the order
<foobarry> got the new centos kernel, just released
<daftykins> hot off the press!
<foobarry> ubuntu have really dropped a gonad on this one
<m0nkey_> diddledan: I need your regex skillz
<m0nkey_> Or any JS experts :)
<diddledan> m0nkey_: huhu
<m0nkey_> It's okay, got it figured out now.
<diddledan> bah, I suck
<m0nkey_> Too slow :)
<diddledan> I was out
<diddledan> preliminary cpu issue patch benchmarks vs pre-patch: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-415-x86pti&num=2
<m0nkey_> ugh, I/O is going to suck
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-05
<diddledan> wat. win32 can do unix sockets now?! https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/12/19/af_unix-comes-to-windows/
<diddledan> "And, if you are wondering, there is already support for unix socket within Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL), how does that work with the Windows unix socket implementation? Well, currently, it doesnât, but stay tuned! "
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> =^..^=
 * daftykins eats cereal
<daftykins> mmmm breakfast
 * zmoylan-pi nibbles on pez...
<daftykins> so those kernel changes don't seem to have reduced performance as dramatically as articles have sensationally claimed
<daftykins> (as per Phoronix)
<zmoylan-pi> we'll have to wait a few days for everyone to test their config on updated cpus. even a 5% drop will irk the crap out of a lot of people
<daftykins> meh, then they're too sensitive :)
<daftykins> yeah it wasn't tested against very many older gen things, where it's allegedly worse
<zmoylan-pi> what's the worst a few basement living hypersensitive trolls can do? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be interesting to see how the pc gaming community over reacts, when every last % counts to fps...
<daftykins> already seen negligible change there too, but yeah already seen some idiots worrying about losing 30% ;)
<zmoylan-pi> won't someone think of the bitcoin miners.... :-P
<daftykins> not even once :D
<zmoylan-pi> or all those java/javascript developers who'll now have to optimise their code... :-P
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zleap> hi
<brobostigon> hi
<zleap> how are things
<brobostigon> a raginf cold.
<brobostigon> a raging cold.
<zleap> not good
<brobostigon> definitly not good.
<foobarry> java9 made one userse code run 10x faster
<foobarry> thats the fix :P
<daftykins> xD
<daftykins> foobarry: a good kind of 10x faster? :)
<daftykins> my my IRC is quiet today
<Laney> HELLO
 * Laney YELLS
<daftykins> Laney: :D
<foobarry> yes a good kind.
<daftykins> hurrah
<obiwan> ~heya
<obiwan> there
<daftykins> o0
<diddledan> moobs
<diddledan> https://www.cyberscoop.com/spectre-meltdown-microsoft-anti-virus-bsod/
<ChunkzZ> O_o
<ali1234> its just the tip of the iceberg i think
<zleap> i did read that you may have to disable anti virus for the patch to be installed,
<diddledan> I love xkcd: https://twitter.com/xkcdComic/status/949346844466819072
<m0nkey_> trolleys with hammers
<diddledan> related: https://twitter.com/kornelski/status/949362725897072640
<m0nkey_> You know what one of the fixes were?
<m0nkey_> Buy a new CPU
<diddledan> makes sense. buy an AMD
<m0nkey_> F**k that
<m0nkey_> ^^
<m0nkey_> exactly
<m0nkey_> Next build will be an AMD
<m0nkey_> Until their next screwup
<m0nkey_> Then I go ARM
<zmoylan-pi> give me zilog or give me death \o/ :-D
<diddledan> aye, making your own with an FPGA actually sounds like a good idea
<diddledan> gratiuitous pussy pic: https://t.co/1EJX7rKtlM
<zmoylan-pi> THIS IS IRC =^..^=
 * zmoylan-pi dials smug to 11... :-) https://liliputing.com/2018/01/know-whats-not-affected-meltdown-spectre-raspberry-pi.html
<ali1234> wait hang on a minute
<ali1234> that article says the pi is not vulnerable because it uses cortex A7, then it says cortex A7 is vulnerable
<ali1234> haha its a typo
<ali1234> it should say A17 is vulnerable
<ali1234> they say their stuff isn't vulnerable but the exploit is so simple that i bet we'll see many new variants throughout this year affecting multiple different CPU arch
<zmoylan-pi> tbh if the pi lost .01% performance due to a patch it would be serious :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-06
<diddledan> isn't the pi3 an A53?
<zmoylan-pi> not a lot of pi in that... :-P
<ali1234> diddledan: yes it is, but raspbian etc do not use 64 bit mode, so it's kind of crippled
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<foobarry> i have an FPGA
<foobarry> diddledan: although haven't done anything with it yet
<foobarry> took a few days to install the software to manage the beast
<foobarry> how does minecraft android version compare with PC version? would i need a controller/keyboard?
<daftykins> surely that depends on what kind of android device for what input methods it has
<zmoylan-pi> you can plug in a lot of usb peripherals using otg these days. slap on a hub and plug in a keyboard, mouse and joystick :-P
<ali1234> it doesn't "need" a keyboard and mouse but it is largely unplayable without one
<daftykins> diddledan: (volume warning) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UD-0qIdz1VA
<m0nkey_> my last tweet ranting towards apple was my 666th tweet. coincidence? i think not.
<daftykins> ah, what was it about? :)
<m0nkey_> stupid apple, forcing my laptop to download the high sierra installer
<m0nkey_> I never pulled it down
<m0nkey_> It was a fresh install of Sierra because of the bullshit with High Sierra. i downgraded because Sierra just works better.
<m0nkey_> And APFS is just so slow
<daftykins> i didn't think you were an Apple type
<daftykins> you really are not-shauno!
<daftykins> ;D
<m0nkey_> holy crap, they replied. they "like to understand more about this" .... indeed.
<daftykins> i don't believe a word of the folk who claimed 10 installed without their consent ;)
<daftykins> you know what folk are like with grumpily 'dismissing' pop ups (not saying you did, just made me think of that)
<m0nkey_> I saw a popup, I clicked on the no button, but it appears the installer was pulled down anyway.
<daftykins> mmm no doubt, only way it can run!
<m0nkey_> I hate all these forced updates
<daftykins> especially from that company
<m0nkey_> My laptop is pretty old for a Mac. Bought it in 2012.
<daftykins> a mate in Long Island was just telling me about how their local Apple shop told his family that the iPhone 6 they brought in was dead, so sold them on an 8 Plus...
<daftykins> he picked it up, did the software restore via his PC, fixed in minutes
<m0nkey_> There is now a wifi driver for this laptop for FreeBSD. Need to compile the kernel module and recompile the kernel, it works and everything but since it's a new driver is unstable as heck.
<daftykins> would it not lack a lot of advisable power management stuffs on such a machine?
<m0nkey_> actually, thats one of the things that does work
<m0nkey_> everything works except the wifi
<m0nkey_> and bluetooth
<m0nkey_> Apple Support are saying it's because I have automatic updates enabled for macOS
<m0nkey_> I look at my settings, that option is disabled.
<daftykins> haha, don't give up, sir
<zmoylan-pi> yes... but you're talking to 'apple geniuses' :-P
<foobarry> stable apple geniuses
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-07
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<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
