#ubuntu-uk 2011-01-31
<eternal> stupid people
<eternal> stupid people
<hamitron> yes?
<hamitron> ;)
<eternal> do you like it?
<popey> eternal: can we help you?
<eternal> yes
<eternal> i need an answer to something
<popey> oh?
<nucc1> that was a serious ban :p
<popey> going round a lot of ubuntu irc channels causing trouble
<nucc1> sunday's not a good day to choose to get a linode. review is slow
<popey> :)
 * nucc1 sighs
<popey> or :(
<nucc1> yea, much more empathetic
<nucc1> or maybe the first one... either way works i guess
<hamitron> popey, should we have a layer of stone inside for strength?
<hamitron> or want to see pretty sandstone?
<popey> I'm easy :)
<hamitron> well, we doing anything inside? ;)
<hamitron> apart from burying our bodies
<popey> :D
<popey> need moar gold!
<hamitron> :))
<hamitron> need some gold :/
<popey> be nice to have a water lift from the bottom
<popey> of the world
<popey> to the base of the pyramid
<popey> inside it
<shauno> you're putting popey in a pyramid?
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> we not gonna put gold in and booby trap it?
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> suppose the water lift would be handy
<nucc1> are you guys building castles in the sky?
<hamitron> na
<hamitron> I wouldn't mind a tree house after this
<nucc1> what i'm reading almost sounds like a description of transformers 2
 * nucc1 pegs CPUfreq at 800mhz and goes to sleep
<Jora> hi
<czajkowski> aloh
<czajkowski> a
<AlanBell> morning
<MooDoo> hello all
<Apacheuk> morning
<DJones> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> morning.
<MartijnVdS> \o
<dwatkins> moin moin
<daubers> Morning
<popey> Morning
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Brave New Age - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/01/31/brave-new-age
<KrisDouglas> Hello, is there anyway to stop USC from being stuck on "cancelling" an install
<KrisDouglas> ?
<davmor2> morning all
<HazRPG> morning
<HazRPG> \o
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> HazRPG: morning
<davmor2> MooDoo: morning dude
<HazRPG> MooDoo: :) \o
 * HazRPG glugs some coffee
<jacobw> morning
<andylockran> morning
<czajkowski> popey: you on the Ayatana ML ?
<popey> i was, dunno if i still am
<popey> yeah, maybe
<popey> yes
<czajkowski> popey: think the r sizing issue was broiught up on that
<czajkowski> *brought.
<czajkowski> I know it's not the first time I've read about it
<popey> which issue
<popey> there are many
<czajkowski> your bug
<popey> no, there are many issues
<czajkowski> ok
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski good morning 
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: Re your bug. That's the way they decided to fix the stupid 1px-wide borders that were virtually ungrabable
<TheOpenSourcerer> put a transparent border "outside" the visible window
<popey> crack
<popey> in a pipe
<jpds> popey: Not on a plane?
<popey> not in this channel :)
<popey> maybe in others
<HazRPG> jacobw, andylockran, czajkowski, popey: Morning guys :)
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: aye I knew I had read that somehwere..
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 not long now my dear! 
<czajkowski> HazRPG: hi
<davmor2> 3 days
<popey> bonkers
<popey> sorry czajkowski
<czajkowski> popey: I didnt say it made sense, I just knew I wasn't going totally bonkers and had read the reason for it
<popey> getting dangerously close to saying goodbye to ubuntu
<czajkowski> :(
<czajkowski> or not running Unity
<czajkowski> I do wonder what goes on in the design teams minds at times when they make such calls
<czajkowski> sorry design team folks in here
<popey> its not about unity
<popey> I quite like the idea behind unity
<popey> you've seen my osx desktop, I have the panel on the left just the way unity has it, I like global menu, I like the style
<HazRPG> argh the song won't leave my head!
<MartijnVdS> popey: you like global menu now?
<popey> i never said I didnt
<popey> what I dont like is that its broken with sloppy focus
<MartijnVdS> "You've seen my osx desktop [...] I like global menu"
<popey> 11:24:49 < popey> i never said I didnt
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> but you did :)
<popey> where?
<MartijnVdS> well, it was related to sloppy focus, you're right
<MartijnVdS> but still :)
<popey> I like global menu, I dont like the ubuntu bugs in their implementation of global menu
<daubers> popey: sloppy focus = focus follows mouse?
<popey> clearer?
<HazRPG> anyone know why ubuntu might "hang" or freeze after grub but before any kernel buffer messages?
<popey> yes daubers
<MartijnVdS> daubers: yes
<MartijnVdS> popey: \o/
<daubers> Right
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: even in rescue mode?
<HazRPG> is that "safe mode" type thing?
<HazRPG> if so, then yeah
<czajkowski> daubers: can you pm your address again, never sent those stickers.
 * MartijnVdS re-tried Unity again yesterday
<MartijnVdS> but I can't get used to it
<MartijnVdS> the "dock" thingy is in the way, OR hidden.. I haven't found a way to get it back when it's hidden (except moving windows out of the way)
<HazRPG> I tried it yesterday... didn't like it... just seems wrong
<MartijnVdS> the menus were all on top of each other
<MartijnVdS> window snapping (to each other) is broken
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: My problem with unity is the whole menu being moving from the top of any given window, to the top panel/bar/thing...
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the global menu, yes, that annoys me as well
<HazRPG> just doesn't seem right, considering I usually work with 2 screens, and several windows piled next to each other, would slowly get incredibly confusing
<HazRPG> I mean, for example now I have 5 windows tiled next to each other
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: also: is it one app with 5 windows or 5 instances of one app?
<MartijnVdS> what is more than one instance of an app is running
<MartijnVdS> how do you tell which menu you're seeing?
<HazRPG> a media player in minimal form as a square, contact list, this chat window, a browser in full screen
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I have 10 terminal windows :)
<HazRPG> the full screen browser gets alt+tabbed a lot to other programs in full screen on that monitor
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: some with --disable-factory so a crash in gnome-terminal doesn't take everything down
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: lol how come?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: because I program Perl for a living, and have to navigate around source trees a lot :)
<HazRPG> that would make sense xD
<daubers> popey: Out of interest (since I played with FFM and just wanted to hit it with a stick) how does unity break FFM?
<gord> global menu
<HazRPG> I've just started freelancing web development (previously worked in an office - but resources were terrible :/)
<gord> how do  you get to the menu if there is another window between you and the top panel?
<daubers> Ahhhh
<popey> mpt suggested I just read te link from my bug report
<daubers> So the global menu only focuses on the top panel?
<popey> but I dont understand it
<popey> and I feel I will look stupid if I ask more questions
<popey> so I am left here with broken functionality and no way to fix it
<popey> :( <- understatement
<HazRPG> one thing I'm interested about is... ubuntu is meant to be "human" or "user-friendly" and "community driven"... yet they're still continuing Unity, when a major of people I've spoken to (and articles I've read) don't seem to accept some of things Unity is bringing to the table
<dwatkins>  http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Stbr207TOYrswyt6fPNRfQ?feat=directlink - a tux by my friend Leo
<gord> popey, whats the bug?
<popey> HazRPG: define major
<dwatkins> or should that be 'Tux'?
<HazRPG> majority*
<popey> bug 674138
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 674138 in Unity ""Global" appmenu breaks sloppy focus" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/674138
<popey> HazRPG: define majority
<popey> HazRPG: who are these people, how have you polled them, have they used it?
<daubers> HazRPG: Just because lots of people are noisy doesn't make them the majority....
<daubers> HazRPG: Also.. it's not finished yet?
<popey> I find it's just the typical loud mouthed minoritis like fab
<MartijnVdS> As long as the "Classic" option remains available, I'll be happy
<HazRPG> friends, other coders I work with, etc... along with many websites, youtube videos, etc
<czajkowski> is read the link the new way to say to someone to rtfm it. most annoying
<popey> HazRPG: how many of them have actually used unity on natty?
<czajkowski> :(
<HazRPG> popey: *shrug* I know I have, and a few of my friends - but I know a lot of people who have used unity that was shipped with 10.10 for netbooks and quickly switched to the regular edition
<daubers> Urgh, that paragraph from MPT about FFM isn't particularly readable
<daubers> HazRPG: New Unity is quite different
<popey> HazRPG: 10.10 unity is very very very different
<popey> daubers: _exactly_
<MartijnVdS> daubers: though still just as buggy
<daubers> popey: File a bug on the wiki page :)
<HazRPG> oh don't get me wrong, I can see the differences
<popey> last time I tweeted about it still being broken mpt suggested I go and read my own bug report
<daubers> MartijnVdS: It's not finished yet!
<popey> I have read it 3 times and still dont get it
<HazRPG> how does one suggest opinions out to the ubuntu coders out of interest?
<daubers> Has the global menu bar got a plugin system of some kind?
<gord> popey, it basically means that focus follows mouse isn't taken in to account when choosing which window has control of the global menubar, so if you mouse over something it can become the "active window" but the menu bar will still be the menu of the old window, until you click or tab to it or something
<gord> seems like a broken design to me
<HazRPG> because I've tried gnome-shell and unity now, and they both seem similar
<HazRPG> to say the least
<popey> thats not what happens
<HazRPG> from gnome-shell/unity I really love the search feature for the menu - that is just pure genius, it means I don't need Gnome DO or similar anymore. Fantastic idea, I love it in Windows 7 too.
<popey> also, the global menu has a delay
<popey> I often am in firefox and note some seconds after I switch tab, or open a mail, that the global menu changes out of the corner of my eye
<MartijnVdS> popey: it has to be pushed over dbus, that takes time!
<HazRPG> but the global menu and the dock are just Mac clones in my opinion
<MartijnVdS> yeah I saw my brother's mac yesterday, he had the dock on the left.. it's identical
<HazRPG> and well, if I'm not mistaken exist as separate apps if you want them
<HazRPG> those things are just not innovative in the true meaning of it
<popey> not much in computing is innovative
<HazRPG> sure, gnome-shell and unity are probably trying to refine it
<HazRPG> popey: you saying Compiz wasn't?
 * popey checks his logs
<popey> I dont think i did say that did I
<popey> much of computing today is evolution, not revolution
<HazRPG> I guess
<popey> some certainly is very innovative
<popey> Apple (and to some degree Google, but much less so) deserve some credit for invigorating the touch interface.
<HazRPG> personally, if they're doing it right, gnome-shell and unity should be modular, and be able to remove or disable parts you don't need - otherwise your just throwing your own opinions down to everyone
<popey> And Ubuntu innovated by having a graphical installer on the Live environment
<popey> but live CDs had been around some time, and were mostly pioneered (and became popular) by Knoppix
<popey> (although knoppix had an installer on the live cd, it was a manky script)
<HazRPG> I always thought it was Knoppix that made LiveCD infamous not ubuntu
<popey> yes, it did, thats what I just said :)
<HazRPG> :p
<popey> I specifically highlighted the "installation" feature of the Live CD which Ubuntu made popular
<popey> Launchpad and PPAs were quite an innovation too
<HazRPG> yeah, I was just checking lol, because most (even linus) seem to think it was ubuntu :/
<daubers> popey: OOI how does osx deal with FFM?
<popey> OSX has no ffm
<popey> AIUI
<popey> HazRPG: are you referring to his interview at OMG Ubuntu?
<popey> if so, he also specifically highlighted the installer, not live CDs in general
<HazRPG> popey: yeah, I was reading that and thought "that can't be right somehow"
<popey> Linus agrees with me ;)
<HazRPG> popey: oh I don't doubt that ^^,
<popey> hehe
<HazRPG> I recall him saying it in the interview
<popey> "That popey dude, he's always right"
<popey> yeah, I think they edited that out
<HazRPG> but the way the editor/interviewer portrayed it just seemed off
<gord> popey, i know thats not what happens - i don't see the dx team implementing support for that honestly, you don't get information for how a window was focused to make that kind of decision
<HazRPG> daubers: what's FFM?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: focus follows mouse
<HazRPG> ah
<daubers> gord: How easy is it to find out if FFM is on?
<MartijnVdS> daubers: it's one gconf key
<daubers> Is there a dbus thing for it?
<daubers> Hmm....
<gord> daubers, no idea, i expect there is a gsettings key for it that you can watch
 * daubers might break his global menu in a horrific manner this evening
<davmor2> popey: you going to try Kubuntu instead?
<gord> honestly, i think disabling global menu if ffm is on is a much better solution
<HazRPG> anyone know if unity will be able to disable/enable some features - or if its just WYSIWYG sorta deal?
<daubers> HazRPG: You can kill the global menu
<popey> hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaahahahaha
<popey> no
<HazRPG> *sigh* :(
<HazRPG> good thing I don't fear tampering then :/
<popey> (my laugh was @daubers)
<davmor2> popey: Is that a maybe?  Xubuntu perhaps or lubuntu
<popey> maybe I should just install OSX on my desktop :)
<daubers> popey: Killing the global menu is easy :) I did it last night by accident
<shauno> that was my route.  OSX on anything that has a monitor, ubuntu on anything that doesn't.  no regrets.
<HazRPG> popey: see, the reason I use any Linux distro is because its *not* OSX or Windows
<TheOpenSourcerer> Of course installing OSX on non-apple hardware is in-breach of their non-free licensing AFAICT.
<daubers> There are a few things that annoy me about OSX, but my major quibble at the moment is how pigging hard it is to develop in
<HazRPG> and actually *works* (I use loosely, because with anything you'll have faults somewhere)
<popey> or I could just buy a hulking great mac
<popey> and donate my desktop to charity
<popey> (to make me feel better) :)
<MartijnVdS> a "feelgood mac"
<gord> daubers, setting UBUNTU_MENUPROXY=0 is a much saner way of disabling global menu :)
<popey> hehe
<popey> also!
<popey> not having any way to edit launchers is annoying
<gord> edit?
<popey> add command line parameters
<popey> like --debug=1
<popey> or --profilemanager
<popey> I filed a bug and mark basically said "no"
<gord> you can add extra command line parameters to the desktop file and they'll show up in the right click menu - but honestly to do that would break matching (this gedit window, is it from the gedit launcher or the gedit --foobar launcher? =\)
<popey> indeed
<popey> so it's a regression
<popey> I can have two icons on the panel, "Launch Firefox" "Launch Firefox in debug mode"
<popey> easy to see which is which by hovering over or placing where I want them
<popey> cant do that in unity
<popey> of course some would argue that putting command line options on programs is clearly an outdated way to configure applications
<shauno> or giving the debug one a fun icon, which is usually done in launcher edit
<gord> i disagree, its not a regression, its a different way of handling your windows. not by window but by application
<popey> and I should file bugs against the upstream projects to get them to convert all command line parameters to preferences dialogs
<gord> like i said, you can edit the desktop file like http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/05/how-to-add-thunderbird-to-the-ubuntu-messaging-menu/ and get the extra options in a right click menu
<popey> semantics gord
<popey> yes, editing desktop files
<popey> lovely
<popey> </sarcasm>
<popey> also note that guide is broken
<popey> it says use ALT+F2
<popey> plus it breaks when that app updates its .desktop file
<daubers> popey: You sound like you need some cake
<daubers> and a mug of tea
<Joeb454> daubers: there's never a time somebody doesn't need cake and tea, let's be honest
 * TheOpenSourcerer is in agreement with popey
<shauno> I'm trying to figure out how to use 'case of the mondays' in a sentence without sounding even more annoying & irrelevant than normal
<dwatkins> I think you just did, shauno...
 * HazRPG wants to win the lottery
<shauno> I guess I'm gonna luck out and not find out what all the fuss is about until the next LTS.  Hopefully the dust will have settled a bit by then
<MooDoo> HazRPG: get in the queue
<HazRPG> MooDoo: Indeed.
<HazRPG> shauno: agreed.
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: remember: it's just as likely to be 12345678 as it is to be your ticket number :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah I know ;)
<HazRPG> I don't do the lottery often
<HazRPG> but when I do, I always hope I'm going to be one of those you hear about that barely ever does the lottery, and that one ticket they do put on becomes the winner :P
<HazRPG> but obviously odds are odds
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: I know people who call it "idiot tax" ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: it might as well be haha
<HazRPG> the national lottery here in the UK sometimes sponsors the renovation of parks, buildings, etc... so it might as well be an "idiots tax"
<Twinkletoes> When installing nagios, should I install from source (3.2.3) or from the repos (3.2.0)?  In the past I've noticed that sometime it takes a long time to update the nagios package so am unsure which to go for
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: do you need features that are in 3.2.3 that are not in 3.2.0?
<MartijnVdS> Twinkletoes: security fixes are always backporte
<MartijnVdS> d
<MartijnVdS> packages = easier
<HazRPG> wow, how did I not know about brainstorm.ubuntu.com sooner!
<HazRPG> for those interested, I've posted a comment at the end of this one: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/26902/
<shauno> that kinda thing irks me.  I do use app-based filtering a lot.  having half a thread telling me why I don't want it isn't very useful
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah, but the default could be to work as normal
<HazRPG> and if needed to be turned off altogether
<shauno> sure, that's a sensible default
<popey> HazRPG: http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4/
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> popey: are you saying this is already implemented?
<popey> nope
<popey> just pointing out some of us knew about brainstorm :)
<popey> (note the idea submitter) :)
<AlanBell> and idea number
<HazRPG> Alan Pope?
<popey> <-
<HazRPG> name rings a bell
<HazRPG> ^^<
<popey> :)
<HazRPG> ^^,*
<HazRPG> I wasn't doubting you guys didn't know :P, I just pointed out that I'd only just found out about it ^^,
<HazRPG> and was just pointing out the one I posted :P
<daubers> It's the cloud expo thing this week isn't it
<popey> yes
<popey> just teasin HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> 2-3rd feb
<HazRPG> popey: :P
<HazRPG> ahh, you guys love me really ^^,
<HazRPG> even if I am annoying at times
<HazRPG> might have to join in on some minecraft later tonight with you guys :P
<popey> you're not annoying at all
<HazRPG> really?
<HazRPG> heh, my friends find my opinionated-self to be annoying
<HazRPG> they always think I'm trying to force it on them, when really I just like discussions  to see others opinions
<popey> meh
<popey> we can all be like that sometimes
<HazRPG> daubers: I'm guessing you meant this: http://www.cloudexpoeurope.com/
<AlanBell> good poing
<AlanBell> t
<HazRPG> daubers: Wed & Thurs are the days, if your going
<AlanBell> Daviey: CDs?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Are those the CD's from Canonical?
<AlanBell> they should be
<daubers> HazRPG: Yep, looking like I'll be there wednesday.... not confirmed on that yet. Waiting for a customer to confirm some dates before I can confirm them
<HazRPG> daubers: I'm tempted to go, but not sure if its worth me going at all.
<HazRPG> Since it sounds like more a corporate gig, then a "enthusiast" gig
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I hope everyone's remembered to get their T-shirts :P
<daubers> HazRPG: I'm actually going for work, so it's an all expenses paid gig for me anyway
<HazRPG> daubers: ha, nice :).
<AlanBell> HazRPG: it is for enthusiatic corporates :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: You knew what I meant ;)
<AlanBell> yeah, it is a business focussed thing, which is totally one place that Ubuntu needs to be
<HazRPG> AlanBell: This is very true.
<AlanBell> as well as a consumer thing
<AlanBell> and geek thing
<HazRPG> \o I'm a geek
<Myrtti> happened in real life: How do you know that a car has really been designed by French?
<AlanBell> and a consumer, and I am guessing you work too
<Myrtti> They've included and integrated "Perfume Dispenser" on the dash.
<Myrtti> s/and/an/
<AlanBell> Myrtti: I was going to guess a baguette holder
<dwatkins> The new VW Beetle has a vase.
<shauno> I always wondered why the new bugs had sunflowers in the dash, but I couldn't pin that on the french
<Myrtti> dwatkins: yeah, but that's because it's a hippy car
<dwatkins> Indeed, Myrtti :)
<Myrtti> :->
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Errr... that's a grey area. Consumer, yes. Working, sort of... if you call Freelancing work. This is my first Freelance project that I'm working on at the moment. Don't really have more projects lined up yet...
<AlanBell> Freelancing on Ubuntu?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Not quite, I use ubuntu to do my projects...
<HazRPG> AlanBell: I'm a web developer at heart. Been doing it since I was 13. Even worked for a year between college/uni for a design company doing web development. I'm by no means good at design though.
<HazRPG> AlanBell: This is my portfolio website I've been working on in my spare time for the past 2 years: http://www.hazrpg.co.uk/
<HazRPG> Even has some of the websites I've done in the gallery - but the designs aren't mine, so I can't take credit for that. Stuff I've helped designed are on http://www.softboxproductions.co.uk/
<gord> when i used to freelance, i would use ubuntu, use gtk/python to build apps, django for web work, was fun
<HazRPG> I use aptana for my web work
<gord> its been about two years since i freelanced, not sure what the cool kids are using for web stuff anymore
<HazRPG> Personally, any editor does the job for me - been coding that long for the web that I can pretty much visualise it in my head by looking at the code (sounds so bad when I type it out like that)
<gord> oh, i was talking about the framework
<HazRPG> oh, heh
<HazRPG> Smarty works great for templates... personal preference though.
<gord> for web stuff it doesn't matter, i'm convinced that 99% of php "coders" use notepad.exe
<HazRPG> gord: *put head down in shame*
<shauno> I just use vim for most things.  textmate if it's going to be long/involved/messy/involve too many files, but mostly just vim
<HazRPG> gord: I find myself switching between gedit, SciTE (scitella?), aptana and dreamweaver for my php stuff
<dwatkins> I've heard good things about Textpattern as a content management system, I guess that's what the cool kids are using, gord.
<shauno> heh, I won't share my thoughts on dreamweaver ;)
<HazRPG> however I've managed to stop myself from using Dreamweaver altogether - mainly cos it was a uni version I use to use and I don't plan on playing ridiculous amounts for a licence for it.
<HazRPG> shauno, gord: Cappuccino is another one that seems to pop up from time to time these days too.
<dwatkins> There's always BlueFish, Komposer or whatever it's been renamed to
<diplo> netbeans user here
<HazRPG> diplo: I use that for Java
<diplo> We use Codeigniter
<diplo> It's good for PHP/html etc as well
<gord> i also don't really care about what the cool kids are using either ;) web development became boring after django fixed it all and made server stuff really easy ;)
<HazRPG> diplo: interesting
<diplo> SVN client in plugins
<gord> client side javascript is getting interesting though
<diplo> Cross platform as well
<gord> webgl could be very very interesting
<diplo> Bit of a hog is the downside
<HazRPG> gord: You mean like jQuery? xD
<Laney> last I heard it was web.py was good
<HazRPG> Laney: thought web.py was Python related websites?
<Laney> yeh
<Laney> http://webpy.org/
<HazRPG> Laney: heh already found that :P
<Laney> :>
<HazRPG> I thought since most "hosts" don't tend to put Ruby on Rails, or the Python one, people didn't use it as often.
<gord> jquery is just a way of dealing with the crappy html DOM in a programmatic form, don't know why people get so excited about it, its what the js api should of been in the first place
 * HazRPG trying to think of the name of the stuff I heard about that gord meant.
<gord> HazRPG, i meant what i said.
<HazRPG> gord: yeah I know, there's a framework that's been made to facilitate it - but can't remember what its called now
<HazRPG> its gonna bug me now
<HazRPG> gord: Prototype, script.aculo.us, MooTools, Dojo are the only ones that come to mind :/
<HazRPG> gord: ah man, how'd I forget this one xD www.ape-project.org
<dogmatic69> is it possible to pass params of a command with alias?
<dogmatic69> eg 'mycommand <param>' -> 'cd /some/path/<param>/foo'
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: no, but you can with a function
<dogmatic69> oh
<dwatkins> An alias just replaces text with what the alias is for, although you could use it to cd into a directory by cding into the level above and ending with "; cd " for it to paste the part afterwards
<dwatkins> heh, I suspected this was what you were wanting to do, dogmatic69 :)
<HazRPG> gord: heh, is that you moving your ape around?
<gord> HazRPG, no
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: i want to make 'shortcuts' to my git repos, eg "site site1" goes to /var/ww/sites/site1.dev/public_html
<dogmatic69> ive got everything set up generic like that so it can work
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: yeah, use bash functions
<dogmatic69> ill have to do some reading :D
 * popey tickles Laney 
<Laney> ey up popey
<Laney> I just hid me a geocache on campus
<ali1234> popey: are you doing something on the minecraft server? it keeps saying it is backing up... seems to be stuck in a loop
<popey> yes, sorry
<popey> its manual
<popey> I'm trying to make the backup script better
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: would i be looking up 'bash scripting'?
<popey> seems to be working now, so this should be the last run ali1234, going to make it backup hourly from now on
<ali1234> no problem, it doesn't seem to be affecting me. just thought it might be a runaway script or something
<popey> hehe, thanks
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: You could read the entire bash manpage, or just look up 'bash functions' online, I imagine.
<dogmatic69> should be simple coming from php
<andylockran> anyone help with some simple regex?
<andylockran> check if first character is 0, then the other can be 0-9, or # + and *
<dogmatic69> [0-9]+
<dogmatic69> lol
<andylockran> I got ^0[0-9]#
<dogmatic69> i was just giving you a simple regex :D then you said about numbers
<andylockran> I got "^0[0-9\#\*\+]+$"
<Myrtti> http://txt2re.com/
<dogmatic69> ^0([0-9]\#|\+|\*)+$ maybe
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Adding photos to my Ubuntu One contacts - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/01/31/adding-photos-to-my-ubuntu-one-contacts
<daubers> gord: I finally got my minecraft boosters to work properly
<gord> daubers, cool, now you get to try and perfect the design forever ;)
<iclebyte-work>   i have an interface connected to a replicated port from a cisco switch, the interface has no IP however I can see the traffic coming in on eth1 (currently 25gb) - I'm trying to monitor it with softflowd so we can generate netflow data, this worked using a bridge but doesnt seem to work using 1 interface in promiscuous mode, any ideas?
<daubers> gord: Heh, I'm having to double my tracks so I have an upline and a downline
<daubers> Also tempted to start opencast mining in some areas at the moment
<gord> not useful
<gord> diamond and gold only spawn at lower levels
<Myrtti> I'll probably start making signs a lot soon
<Myrtti> I've gotten lost in my mines so many times it's not funny
<Myrtti> I wish I had an external monitor though :-(
<Myrtti> got used to a big screen while in Berlin and now this laptop feels inadequate for minecraft.
<Myrtti> actually, it is inadequate in many ways, I've got a new one waiting at the office but it's behind lock and key atm
<Myrtti> when I get the new one I'll open this baby up and clean the fans and stuff
<Myrtti> four gigs of RAM doesn't take away the fact that the CPU is trashing with any java app
<Myrtti> "nooooooooo, not Java!!!!111"
<directhex> damn, i meant to try it with ikvm, for fun
<directhex> hah, login screen with the latest ikvm snapshot!
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] AskUbuntu reaches 7000 questions - 15000 answers - 9800 users - 70000 votes - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/askubuntu-reaches-7000-questions-15000-answers-9800-users-70000-votes
<lazarus_>  how do i turn off the login sound via terminal on ubuntu
<popey> lazarus_: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gdm/+bug/437429
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 437429 in gdm (Ubuntu Lucid) "No GUI to configure/disable login sound" [Wishlist,Fix released]
<lazarus_> popey: thanks
 * lazarus_ adds no config script
<lazarus_> to*
<daubers> Myrtti: I can't play Minecraft on my mac mini, not enough RAM, poor little thing starts swapping it's head off
<popey> how much ram does it have?
<daubers> popey: 2GB
<popey> tried pressing f to limit the draw distance?
<daubers> Tempted to max it out at 8GB as it's only Â£70 to do so
<daubers> popey: Nope
<daubers> Didn't know about that :)
<popey> and switch off see-through trees
<popey> those will both help a lot
<daubers> Might give them a go this evening
<czajkowski> So who's going to the Open souce expo thingy this week ?http://www.opensourceexpo.co.uk/
<czajkowski> o/
<danfish> czajkowski: o/
<czajkowski> yay
<danfish> czajkowski: you going for the whole thing?
<czajkowski> danfish: all depends, I know I'm definately there Thursday
<czajkowski> not sure yet about wednesday will depend on how tomorrow goes
<daubers> czajkowski: o/
<danfish> I'll definitely be there Weds afternoon and probably thurs am
<czajkowski> so all depends on how much I get done tonight
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<popey> lo
<brobostigon> afternoonings popey
<aptanet> popey, how do I upload to the heads directory? I can't find details on the wiki
<Baikonur> how offtopic friendly is this channel?
<Baikonur> oh, and hi
<Azelphur> Baikonur: reasonably :)
<Azelphur> as long as it doesn't get in the way of support, and it's sort of on topic, then it's ok
<dutchie> Azelphur: and CoC-friendly, of course
<Azelphur> indeed
<popey> aptanet: you dont need to, i replied to you saying i fixed it
<brobostigon> food and drink seems to get talked about abit, :)
<aptanet> popey, I replied, and the link is sorted, just no image so I assumed I either needed to upload, or it would be helpful to do so :)
<aptanet> not overly worried about my face not being there, just the planet not having a 'glitch'!
<aptanet> Jamie Bennett has the same glitch
<popey> aptanet: will see wassup when i get home, sorry about that
<aptanet> no worries, no rush from my end :)
<n1md4> evening all.
<brobostigon> afternoonings n1md4
<aptanet> I must be getting old, the first thing that came to mind then was Dixon of Dock Green!!
<n1md4> I've upgraded the physical disks from 250GB to 1TB; sadly it's MPT Fusion.  mpt-status shows 1TB drives, but the space is not available, I'm still stuck on 250GB.
<n1md4> Is there any way of of increasing the capacity.
<gord> n1md4, i don't think any of us know what you are talking about
<gord> context is essential
<n1md4> gord:  I have a server with hardware RAID.  It used to have 250GB drives.  I powered down the machine and replaced 1 250GB drive with a 1TB.  I powered back up and the drives synced.  I powered down again and replaced the remaining drive, and rebooted, again these synced.  I'm now booted live with 2x 1TB drives.  The device is configured RAID1, and mpt-status shows the 2x 1TB drives, but fdisk/df still shows the 250G configuration
<BigRedS> I'd expect the grow bit to be in te bios for the raid card
<cps> evening peeps :)
<BigRedS> g'morning!
<brobostigon> evening cps :)
<AlanBell> yeah, so you now have a 1TB drive with a 250GB partition on it n1md4
<cps> BigRedS: I'll let you off since I slept until f
<cps> oops
<cps> s/f/17:00 todau
<chrisfxwolf> Hi everybody!
<cps> bah
<AlanBell> cps: go back to bed!
<cps> hey chrisccoulson
<n1md4> BigRedS: thanks ;)  You mentioned about that before, working on Dells (iirc), are you in tomorrow?
<cps> chrisfxwolf * sorry
<cps> wow, something must be wrong with me :s lol
<chrisfxwolf> <cps> all right ;-)
 * cps needs to buy a new cd drive for his thinkpad after finding a huge dent in the one that came with it
<AlanBell> Daviey: boo
<cps> hmm
<cps> might also buy a port replicator for my thinkpad as well
<BigRedS> n1md4: nah, I'm orf to London tomorrow. And/r faffing with vbulletin.
<BigRedS> well, if he wants me to do it in th emorning I could drop by for it, show off htis laptop :)
<BigRedS> this laptop which clearly has a keyboard I'm not yet used to :)
<BigRedS> cps: what sort of vintage? I may have one if it's obsolete :)
<cps> BigRedS: vintage???????
<cps> I have a t42 if you're talking about my thinkpad
<screen-x> cps: thinkpads like wines, have good and bad years ;-)
<cps> screen-x: hah, I remember the loose GPU one I had
<NativeAngels> hello
<cps> hey NativeAngels
<cps> oh dear
<brobostigon> what ?
<cps> a bit of one of what is probably an integrated circuit just fell out of the cd drive
<cps> = FUBAR
<BigRedS> oooh, not good
<brobostigon> :(not good..
<BigRedS> I don't think I've a t42, though
<BigRedS> I'll have a rummage when I see them tomorrow
<cps> ok
<NativeAngels> not ubuntu related whats the best lite distro you use on really old hardware
<BigRedS> I like DSL
<cps> DSL
<BigRedS> but I've not looked at anything else for a long time, there might be newer ones
<cps> is what I would go for
<brobostigon> lubuntu
<cps> so that'll be a new CD drive and a port replicator for my thinkpad
<brobostigon> :(
<cps> brobostigon: can thinkpads boot up from usb sticks?
<brobostigon> cps: depends on the bios.
<cps> hmm my bios says it can boot up from usb floppy drives and cd-rom drives
<NativeAngels> i know its really ancient but i have a very very old toshiba satalite pro 480cdt with a buffalo pcmcia card
<NativeAngels> was just looking what to install on it
<NativeAngels> i have tried puppy and dsl
<NativeAngels> slackware bsd its just a experiment btw
<cps> I think puppy is more feature-rich than dsl anyway
<NativeAngels> whats it like with pcmcia cards
<cps> no idea, haven't used a pcmcia card ever
<NativeAngels> this is the amazing spec
<NativeAngels> Toshiba Satellite Pro 480CDT Notebook (233-MHz Pentium MMX, 64 MB RAM, 4 GB hard drive)
<NativeAngels> dont laugh
<ali1234> on really old hardware i use gentoo
<NativeAngels> whats its wireless support like
<ali1234> same as everything else on gentoo: you have to do it yourself
<NativeAngels> it dosnt have a ethernet connection
<NativeAngels> have you heard of antix ?
<HazRPG> it shouldn't be too hard to fit an electric shower... right?
<cps> HazRPG: oh lawd
<cps> I hear it can be very difficult
<BigRedS> AIUI, it's not *that* hard. But it's a lot easier to get wrong that right
<BigRedS> depends on what you mean by 'electric shower' though, the boxes that just want cold in are relatively easy
<BigRedS> I'm trying to get vsftpd/pam-mysql working, but can't find any way of logging that interface. Anyone got any ideas?
<BigRedS> I can see that vsftpd is saying 'wrong password', but I want to chck there's no problems in the mysql bit
<HazRPG> BigRedS, cps: I'm replacing an old electric shower that no longer works properly, with a new one that's of exactly the same make/model
<HazRPG> so all the wiring and plumbing is already done, I'm just switching it over to a working one
<cps> HazRPG: Ah right.
<HazRPG> shouldn't be too hard, should it?
<BigRedS> HazRPG: ah, should be fine. Assuing it really is exactly the same :)
<BigRedS> just good scope for getting water all over the place...
<HazRPG> Checked make/model/revision numbers - they're exactly the same :) same fittings, placement etc
<HazRPG> BigRedS: how'd ya mean?
<BigRedS> HazRPG: not tightening things properly, or breaking things. There's just always water where there shouldn't be...
<ali1234> you have to get the pressure just right too
<ali1234> too low and it will overheat and shut down
<BigRedS> yeah, which might not be as simple as just copying the old one
<BigRedS> it is always trial and error though
<ali1234> too high and it will never be more than luke warm
<HazRPG> hmmm...
<BigRedS> depends on the ratio of pressure between your hot and cold feeds. It should be pretty close to the last pump
<HazRPG> its just a cold water feed
<BigRedS> ohhh
<BigRedS> yeah, that should be fine then
<HazRPG> I was wondering what you guys were talking about originally
<HazRPG> I'm good with electrics... just don't know about the water side of things T_T
 * HazRPG consults DIY manual
<HazRPG> would I have to get it approved?
<HazRPG> and would that cost money?
<BigRedS> AFAIK, only if you're fiddling with distribution boxes
 * HazRPG notices the note at the bottom
<BigRedS> for the electrics. Not for plumbing. You may need to jump through additional hoops if you're renting though
<HazRPG> BigRedS: owned house - parents - they live/work abroad
<HazRPG> they know I'm doing it :)
<BigRedS> haha
<exobuzz> popey, http://malus.exotica.org.uk/~buzz/joggler/vaapi.png
<HazRPG> its great living rent free ;)
<BigRedS> My mum did once come back from holiday to find my dad had removed a chimey breast :)
<brobostigon> loll
<HazRPG> haha
<cps> LOL
 * HazRPG tries to understand what's going on in that picture.....
<cps> HazRPG: I'm baffled as well!
<HazRPG> I like how the homebase website's DIY stuff pretty much says all the tools you don't need, but they sell :/
<HazRPG> and other various materials
<HazRPG> I like how the model on the website for this shower looks so much better than the one I have :/
<HazRPG> almost confused me for a moment
<HazRPG> but it is the right one - and is exactly the same as the one in the house
<daubers> Evening
<cps> g'devening daubers
 * cps wonders why there has been a load of scottish chav likes on facebook lately
<HazRPG> think I found out why the old was knackered
<HazRPG> one of the wires on the system looks rusted and black
<HazRPG> guessing due to steam
<cps> oh dear
<HazRPG> also, the plastic bit at the bottom of the box wasn't attached to the unit to stop steam getting in
<HazRPG> typical :/
<HazRPG> must have been a cowboy job :/
<brobostigon> :(
 * cps remembers accidentally borking the shower in his stepdad's old flat
<cps> it started getting a bit cold so I turned it up more, but it still stayed cold
<cps> my stepdad thinks it overheated :/
<HazRPG> okay, the wiring on that old one looks scary
<HazRPG> the wires from the main box to the unit is fine
<HazRPG> however the wires on the actual unit itself, look... different... to this one
<HazRPG> all sorts has been ... er ... bodged together
<HazRPG> to make it "work" agani
<HazRPG> again*
 * HazRPG is so glad he just bought a new one and not had a guy just "fix" it
<cps> oh yes
<cps> just âfixingâ it can be really dodgy
<HazRPG> we called a guy for a quote and he said it was going to cost Â£40 to "fix"
<HazRPG> I can see why :/
<cps> :\
<HazRPG> personally that stuff just looks unfixable
<HazRPG> and to fix, one would have to do the same cowboy effect to do so
 * HazRPG wonders if even touching it would be wise
<cps> I doubt it
<cps> is the electricity isolated?
<HazRPG> you mean grounded?
<HazRPG> then yes
<HazRPG> I'd be worried if it wasn't >_<
<Baikonur> my computer isn't on a grounded socket
<Baikonur> it kinda sucks
<cps> darn
<cps> my plan to make Azelphur lose The Game backfired :/
<HazRPG> I won the game years ago :/
 * HazRPG hopes my sister hasn't turned the washing machine on
<HazRPG> overwise it'll have no water soon xD
<cps> :P
<popey> evening
<mgdm> 'lo popey
<HazRPG> evening
<ging> thin gym ebob ?
<OmNomSequitur> HazRPG: install Ubuntu Kitchen Remix Edition on your washing machine.
<Azelphur> curiosity question for anyone following it, how are we doing in terms of rfid in supermarkets?
<Azelphur> is everything tagged yet?
<moreati> Azelphur: I don't think so, just stuff that gets nicked a lot
<Azelphur> aww :p
<Azelphur> I want to build the epic item tracking fridge computer :(
<Azelphur> (I think we all do xD)
<moreati> Closest you'll get is that barcode app Tesco are pushing atm
<Azelphur> indeed :P
<Azelphur> moreati: have you seen all the rfid paranoia :o
<Azelphur> doing some googling, it's madness lol
<moreati> Azelphur: only vaguely. Has it progressed beyond 'Big brother will track my every movement, quick microwave all my jeans'?
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur>  "All kinds of personal belongings, including clothes, could constantly broadcast messages about their whereabouts and their owners, it warns."
<Azelphur> xD
 * brobostigon wonders whysomeone has to ask on the ubuntu germany mailing list, why not to use html email to mailing list,
<moreati> All the tags I've noted were on the packaging or the price tag, not sewn into the lining
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> moreati: "Unlike the bar code,Â RFID could be bad for your health."
<Azelphur> lol
<Baikonur> rfid chips can be potentially dangerous
<moreati> Azelphur: You got me thinking though. If one wanted to track movements on a mass scale oen could prbably use bluetooth - most people carry a phone so equipped and most people leave it on. I bet a bluetooth device sends it's MAC address if pinged, even when not listening for new devices to pair with
<Baikonur> for instance, a small child could choke on one
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> moreati: if someone wanted to track movements on a mass scale, they'd use the cell phone network.
<Azelphur> that's what it's there for.
<Azelphur> and you can locate anyone by name down to like 30 meters, it's like do you want fries with that?
<Baikonur> the cell phone networks are for tracking people?
<moreati> Azelphur: very true  and much less effort. Though one could get finer resolution in dense crowds using bluetooth as well
<Azelphur> Baikonur: well, they've been very successfully repurposed for it, it's all automated and easy to do
<Azelphur> moreati: indeed
<mgdm> "You can do it" and "are designed for it" do not necessarily follow
<Azelphur> mgdm: true, bad wording there :P
<moreati> Besides _everyone_ knows that MMR vaccines are the real way the satellites track you11!
<Azelphur> :P
<Baikonur> i find that no conspiracy theory is full without illuminati, templars or freemasons
<Azelphur> moreati: got me thinking how many of these protesters against rfid have mobile phones ;)
<cps> back in a second
<Baikonur> nwo can represent any of those
<Baikonur> or all
<moreati> Azelphur: >95%, and probably a good number have nectar/club cards. The straw man sat hear said so :)
<moreati> 8here
<Azelphur> haha :D
 * cps returns
 * Azelphur line feeds
<cps> Azelphur, why do you keep saying that?!
<Azelphur> because that's how it goes, you carriage return and then you line feed
<MartijnVdS> CRLF
<mgdm> Only on Windows
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you're a Windows man then? :P
<mgdm> cps is clearly an old Mac
<Azelphur> haha, knew I'd get nabbed for that one!
<cps> mgdm, I was a windows man as well ;_;
<MH0> Oh, Hai cps :P
<cps> MH0, who are you? 0__o
<MH0> cps: Look at cloak
<MH0> MH0!~ZNC@wikipedia/MichealH
<cps> Michael! Long time no speak!
<cps> how're you doing?
<MH0> :)
<MH0> Im doing fine
<cps> :D
<MH0> You? :)
<cps> I'm alright :)
<HazRPG> argh!
<HazRPG> can't get the nut off the old shower :/
<HazRPG> you know the one between the main water supply and the shower unit
<HazRPG> I've got it unscrewed and took it off the wall
<HazRPG> however I can't get that screw off to be able to fit it onto the new shower
<cps> :/
<HazRPG> am I missing an obvious trick here :S?
<cps> hey dipl0
<dipl0> evening
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ##plumbing ;)
<cps> hmm
<cps> for some reason I can't cp a cursor theme into where it's supposed to be
<HazRPG> wow, no way, thers a ##plumbing channel on this server :O?
<cps> probably a fedora problem because I've managed it on ubuntu before
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: alis says no :/
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: alis?
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: yeah
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: /msg list <channel-your-looking-for>
<HazRPG> she'll pull up 60 rooms max with your search result
<HazRPG> don't forget to put # or ##
<HazRPG> try it ;)
<HazRPG> use * if your unsure as to the full thing or not
<HazRPG> e.g. "/msg alis list #ubuntu" will show one result, but "/msg alis list #ubuntu*" will show all that have ubuntu at the start
<HazRPG> same works for *ubuntu
<HazRPG> or *ubuntu*
<hamitron> or *diy*
<hamitron> ;)
<HazRPG> indeed ;)
 * cps pokes hamitron with a twig from a tree in his back garden
<cps> #
<cps> oops
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> back to minecraft ;)
<HazRPG> no one really around in ##diy though :(
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: trying to prove a point ;)?
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: or just wondering if it actually exists :P?
<dogmatic69> just checking what diy was :D
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> would have been cool if it was active
<HazRPG> ikr :/
 * dogmatic69 likes diy
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: think you know how to take this off: http://i56.tinypic.com/vpwxlu.jpg ?
<dogmatic69> next big project is diy laser cutter :)
<HazRPG> sorry, camera on my nexus one - not so great with the closeups
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: :P
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: you'll like the ben heck show on revision3
<dogmatic69> could you get another angle?
<dogmatic69> never seen it
<dogmatic69> i only watch bbc iplayer
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: http://revision3.com/tbhs <==
<HazRPG> its a web-show ;)
<moreati> HazRPG: is that the shower side or the supply side, and which bit are you try to remove?
<dogmatic69> on sundays, when top gear is on :D
<dogmatic69> so is iplayer hehe
<HazRPG> moreati: that's the shower side
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: yeah but stuff on revision3 never airs on TV lol
<HazRPG> moreati: and I'm trying to remove the nut off it
<dogmatic69> ill check that out
<dogmatic69> maybe its a left hand thread
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: you'll like the ben heck show, this his big build at the moment is making a pinball machine from scratch ;)
<dogmatic69> or if its the hot pipe its calcified
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: just cold pipe
<dogmatic69> rusted on
<HazRPG> ya reckon?
<popey> its plastic isnt it?
<dogmatic69> can you see any threads?
<HazRPG> yeah
<HazRPG> thing is there's a metal thing in the way... hold on I'll take a different angle for ya
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: if you can see the threads look close and see if you turning the correct way
<HazRPG> oh, no there's threads on the actual nut
<HazRPG> around the pipe, appears to have a metal ring around it
<HazRPG> you'll see in the next photo
<HazRPG> just uploading to dropbox
<HazRPG> http://i52.tinypic.com/2iia349.jpg
<HazRPG> I hate capchas
<HazRPG> http://i56.tinypic.com/2eee7sy.jpg
<HazRPG> see the metal ring I'm talking about?
 * HazRPG goes to grab a flathead
<HazRPG> cool, I've got a flat flathead now xD
<HazRPG> good thing I have loads of those things
<HazRPG> winner!
<HazRPG> got it free :D
<moreati> HazRPG: I don't see anything in those photos that looks like it's meant to come off. Are you talking about that brass nut that look like it's designed to be tightened by hand?
<HazRPG> tools are a man's best friend :)
<HazRPG> moreati: yeah the nut was what I wanted to take off
<HazRPG> but the golden ring is around the pipe that was stopping it coming out
<cps> HazRPG: what a rather strange thing to say when âTool Academyâ just starts :L
<HazRPG> cps: Tool Academy?
<AlanBell> HazRPG: the golden ring is an olive
<cps> HazRPG: this program on Channel 4
<AlanBell> part of a compression joint
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ;) thanks, didn't know that's what it was called
<HazRPG> been trying to prive this thing off for about 20 mins or more now
<HazRPG> moreati: these are the two bits, finally taken off now
<HazRPG> http://i51.tinypic.com/1h76ac.jpg
<AlanBell> it wouldn't normally be stuck on with anything, just squeezed on by tightening the nut
<HazRPG> back to fitting the new shower :D
<AlanBell> I plumbed the kitchen in my old house
<HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah I kinda figured, but it's been attached onto this for about 2 years or so ... so make sense that it was sort of stuck on there good n tight
<AlanBell> great fun, I had all the kit, pipe cutters blowtorch, solder etc
<HazRPG> AlanBell: nice :)
<HazRPG> my first proper DIY job was when I fitted a shelf, and a dvd (well book) rack... this would be my second (third?) DIY job now
<HazRPG> I've done adapters, plugs, network cables, etc for years though
<HazRPG> AlanBell: only thing I'm concerned with for this shower, is the old one has plastic caps attached to all the wires - the new one doesn't
<HazRPG> I don't know if these were fitted on, or if they were off the shelf this way
<AlanBell> are you fitting a shower of the same wattage as you are taking off?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: like-for-like
<exobuzz> popey, see the link i pasted earlier ?
<HazRPG> exact same model/make/wattage
<HazRPG> (checked the stickers ;))
<exobuzz> popey, basically working (mostly) video acceleration. 720p h264 played using little cpu, but it did glitch during playback. mpeg4 seems fine though
<AlanBell> good, some can draw a lot of current
<HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah I know, I made sure it was the same - that way it *shouldn't* cause problems
<AlanBell> good, I don't mind doing normal electrics, sockets and such, but showers and cookers I give to a real sparky
<exobuzz> vaapi 720p mpeg4 - 14% cpu, without vaapi cpu usage is around 50%. for h264, again smiilar cpu, but unplayable without vaapi
<HazRPG> AlanBell: see I would never do anything with gas myself
<HazRPG> AlanBell: knowing me, I'd blow the house up somehow
<HazRPG> (too electrically minded)
<HazRPG> I'd probably thing it would be a good idea to turn a torch for a better view and blow myself up xD
<HazRPG> think*
<HazRPG> well yee ol' faithful manual (for the device) doesn't mention anything about need to put plastic contacts on...
<AlanBell> yeah, I don't touch gas either
<HazRPG> and my DIY manual/book says something about tape - but that's assuming your fitting in a shower from scratch
<HazRPG> AlanBell: ever managed to electrocute yourself before by accident?
<AlanBell> incidentally a knowledge of plumbing and a few tools is very useful when you are screwing down loose floorboards without a full understanding of the location of the heating pipes.
<HazRPG> man, what a rush that was
<AlanBell> top tip that is
<HazRPG> :P
<Laney> yay my geocache has had visitors already
<HazRPG> I'll keep that in mind when I finally get to my Ethernet cable infrastructure down :P
<dogmatic69> HazRPG: you get it off?
<HazRPG> dogmatic69: yeah :)
<dogmatic69> cool
<HazRPG> just forgot screws
<dogmatic69> i got side tracked
<HazRPG> going back into the bathroom now :)
<dogmatic69> :D
<HazRPG> its cool :P
<ash_> i need to now how to reinstall the ubuntu 10.10 default kernel
<ash_> via ternimal
<cps> bored
<ash_> cps, i need to now how to reinstall the ubuntu 10.10 default kernel
<ash_> please
<cps> ash_: I do not know how to do that because I have not encountered any sort of problem where the default kernel will need to be reinstalled
<cps> what's up with the kernel you have?
<moreati> and how did you install that kernel?
<ash_> cps, its messed up my nvidia drivers
<cps> ash_: can you pastebin the output of uname -a please?
<cps> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<ash_> dw i do beleave i have solved it thanks anyway
<HazRPG> well shower back in (new one)
<cps> :)
<HazRPG> just going to connect pipe, shower holder, etc :)
<HazRPG> and then see if we have hot running water and pressure :)
<cps> humm
<cps> my bank account's running a wee bit dry
<cps> :/
<bigcalm> popey: you need more bandwidth
<bigcalm> popey: current_day needs regenerating
<cps> evening brobostigon-andr
<cps> :)
<brobostigon> cps: thats me, on my htc dream.
<cps> brobostigon: I guessed hehe
 * brobostigon-andr prods cps :)
<cps> brobostigon-andr: hello :)
<brobostigon-andr> Hi :)
 * cps hopes that RAF Leuchars won't be shut down
<brobostigon> in andchat's settings, how do i get it to connect to more than one irc room,on start, atthe moment i tried comma's between the room name and just blank space, and both dont work, any ideas?
<brobostigon> working it out, no spaces between channel names and comma's.
<brobostigon> worked*
<HazRPG> argh stupid thing
<HazRPG> must not have tightened the water properly
<HazRPG> now I have to unscrew it again :/
<brobostigon-andr> :(
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well.
<HazRPG> success!
<HazRPG> everyone's probably gone to sleep :(
<HazRPG> oh well... I did it :D
<HazRPG> and I didn't get electrocuted
<HazRPG> and it works
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-01
<HazRPG> and... \o/ hurray!
<Jora> what did you do?
<brobostigon-andr> :)
 * HazRPG looking forward to a nice hot shower in the morning :D
<HazRPG> Jora: Fitted an electric shower all by myself :)
<Azelphur> http://www.potaroo.net/tools/ipv4/ just hit 0
<Azelphur> we're screwed? :o
<BigRedS> Whoop!
<BigRedS> That was aimed at HazRPG
<BigRedS> not the exhaustion of ip4
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> so what happens when they run out? everyone stands around looking awkward while nothing actually goes wrong?
<BigRedS> Well, there's a huge amount of unused IP addresses
<BigRedS> they're just all allocated
<Azelphur> shauno: this is just the beginning really, it'll probably be about 5 years before things go back
<Azelphur> ISPs will want to take the cheap way out and put everyone behind a NAT as the solution
<BigRedS> but that exhaustion doesn't mean people wont get them, that's that just APNIC having passed the entirety of their allocaton on to the next guys
<Azelphur> sane people want IPv6
<BigRedS> the next guys still have a bunch of unused IP addresses
<Azelphur> indeed
 * BigRedS is a sane person
<shauno> I just can't help think all the recent coverage is counterproductive
<BigRedS> problem with ip6 is that there's no financial incentive until ip4 is actually exhausted
<BigRedS> shauno: how so?
<shauno> a big build up to nothing actually happening makes people think you were panicking over nothing
<BigRedS> shauno: The point, I think, is to have the customers aware and so wanting to know what's going on
<BigRedS> such that there is some incentive to implement ip6
<BigRedS> if the ISPs could sell on the ip6 capability (even if it is stupid scaremongering), then suddently they have reason to, and might find themselves implementing it
<BigRedS> rather than just waiting for people to want it
<shauno> yeah, I get that bit.  it's just been very poorly explained.  I think the worst thing you can do is have the average user treating it as "another y2k" .. end of the world scaremongering leading up to a fizzle
<HazRPG> BigRedS: :)
<HazRPG> Azelphur: :o!
<HazRPG> Azelphur: it says 1% dude...
<BigRedS> yeah, but due to expire today
<BigRedS> we're only 8 minutes into the day, give them time :)
<Azelphur> HazRPG: it says 0(exhausted?) here
 * BigRedS notes the time. G'night people!
<HazRPG> BigRedS: nite dude \o
<HazRPG> Azelphur: oh I was looking at the percentage... the actual num of IPv4 says 0
<Azelphur> :)
<HazRPG> hurray!
<HazRPG> I'm alive!
<Azelphur> so lets talk about being ipv6 ready
<Azelphur> I feel motivated xD
<Azelphur> I have a DD-WRT router and some random adsl modem, can my hardware do it?
 * HazRPG is tempted to have a shower right now xD
<popey> ali1234: I just noticed your farm on the map! Looks great!
<shauno> as far as being ready goes, I don't think I'm expecting ntl.ie to make any changes any time soon :/
<shauno> atleast, not positive changes
 * HazRPG pours himself a glass of morgan spiced & sparks up a cig.
<HazRPG> job well done I say :)
<HazRPG> only taken... 3hrs xD
<Azelphur> wtf, dd-wrt doesn't support ipv6 ootb
<Azelphur> unimpressed once again
<directhex> i need to buy some good rum
<shauno> well, that coulda been more exciting.  turns out my router does support ipv6, and ipv6 tunnels.  so I setup a he.net tunnel on the router, and it's all happy
<brobostigon-andr> :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon-andr: why the andr at the end?
<HazRPG> shauno: wow, what router do you have?
 * HazRPG not sure if mine supports IPv6 at all, since it is rather old
<brobostigon-andr> HazRPG: it has shortend it from android.
<brobostigon-andr> HazRPG: andchat has, I mean.
<HazRPG> brobostigon-andr: ah
<shauno> HazRPG: I'll get shot for saying this, but a fairly old apple 'airport extreme'
<HazRPG> brobostigon-andr: cool, what app you using?
<brobostigon-andr> HazRPG: andchat
<HazRPG> shauno: wow, apple does routers :o?
<HazRPG> shauno: woah, that router seems pretty awesome
<HazRPG> shauno: 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands
<HazRPG> win!
<HazRPG> brobostigon-andr: cool, might have to try that one :)
<brobostigon-andr> :)
<shauno> yeah.  that came in handy last place I lived.  saved fighting for channels on 2.4
<shauno> huge downside tho, is that it does't have a web config thingie.  some can be done via snmp, but mostly you're stuck with their management app
<brobostigon-andr> Good night as
<brobostigon-andr> all +
<shauno> night brobostigon
<brobostigon-andr> Night shauno
<HazRPG> shauno: yeah, 5GHz frequencies aren't picked up by a lot of devices either - so makes them more secure, especially when coupled with hiding of the SSID
<HazRPG> I hide my SSID of routers, that way only people who know its there, can connect
<HazRPG> I set my devices to automatically try to connect, even if the SSID isn't being broadcasted
<HazRPG> its just common sense to nope have the SSID being publically broadcasted anyways, saves the waste of packets ever x seconds
<shauno> my main use for dual band now is pretty evil.  I share it with my neighbours (long story), so they go too overboard (she discovered torrents a few months ago.  that wasn't fun), I just turn 2.4 off
<HazRPG> heh, yeah I always fear things like that too
<HazRPG> when I was in Egypt visiting my mum, I found out that the network was shared in the building >_<
<HazRPG> ...and I warned her that having her documents folder shared would be bad in that situation - only takes one person to know what they're doing to access her files
<HazRPG> people in her block must have hated me visiting, eating up bandwidth downloading ubuntu and watching lots of videos on YouTube xD
<shauno> they don't really need to know what they're doing anymore :/  my macs do a pretty good job of auto-discovering shares on next door's laptops
<HazRPG> yeah windows has gone that way too
<HazRPG> with the whole "Homegroup" thing
<HazRPG> thankfully, shares aren't enabled by default anymore - which is good
<HazRPG> always thought it was daft having that on by default
<shauno> I think it's pretty nifty.  missus did a double-take when she noticed someone else's laptop in the sidebar.  so I pointed out hers showed up on mine too
<shauno> so atleast people actually notice now
<HazRPG> my sneaky trick on windows for stuff like that was setting the domain to a non-default one e.g. "Workgroup" and "MSHOME" were default (depending on home/pro edition)
<shauno> I was expecting setting up a tunnel to be more complicated than http://andrewhitchcock.org/?post=323   tho
<HazRPG> so I'd put thinkings like "gimmieroot" or an animal name of some description
<shauno> very nifty having it on the router instead of my laptop
<HazRPG> shauno: heh :P
<HazRPG> yeah, like I said windows does it too (even in XP) although you had to actually open up "network places" to see all the computers
<HazRPG> I must say, although a lot of Mac's stuff I dislike for my own reason... but one thing I've always loved about them is the fact that they always employ new technologies into their products before the competition
<shauno> most people don't do that tho :)  herself only noticed because the sidebar's visible from the upload dialogue for youtube
<HazRPG> in fact I think a lot of routers still don't give you IPv6 support :/
<HazRPG> ahhh :P
<shauno> hah, my phone gets flying colours on test-ipv6.com too now.  rock on.
<HazRPG> :P
 * HazRPG wishes mine supported IPv6
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Improving Diversity At UDS - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/01/improving-diversity-at-uds/
<HazRPG> woot, I might be able to put OpenWrt on my router now :D
<directhex> my ipv6 is iffy, but i have voip now
<directhex> so i have *some* technology
<directhex> not completely past it
<HazRPG> SNAT?
 * HazRPG reading OpenWrt site
<directhex> my adroid phone connects me to the company sip server
<directhex> so sip calls go to my mobile
<HazRPG> nice
<shauno> haven't poked at voip for a while.  paid a mote of attention while the missus was back in the states, but I realise I just don't use phones that much
<shauno> not for talking atleast
<HazRPG> heh, over the years I find myself using my phone less and less
<shauno> I never used it much in the first place.  I never migrated from sharing the landline in the hallway, to actually using my own
<shauno> so conversations with friends always were just "where are you .. going to the crown? see ya in a couple of hours.  click"
<shauno> which is perfect sms territory, not bleed-me-by-the-minute territory
<shauno> even work only really use it when we've a 4hr SLA to live up to, so they want the instant feedback that you got the message
<directhex> It doesn't have to be like this
<directhex> All we need to do is make sure we keep talking
<shauno> (I realise you can do that with sms & email too, but "okay" seems much easier)
<HazRPG> shauno: Crown? Not a cumbrian are ya?
<shauno> sorta
 * HazRPG realises that there could be crown's in other counties too
<HazRPG> just wondered, cos we have a crown here
<shauno> I dare say there is, but that's an auspicious guess.  I spent that part of my life in barrow
<HazRPG> never thought they might be crowns' in other places
<HazRPG> ah so the crown you meant was in barrow - yeah that's not where I am xD
<shauno> which technically is cumbria, but in a way that's pretty offensive to the rest of the lakes
<HazRPG> very true
<HazRPG> urgh... why is flashing custom firmware so difficult sometimes :/
<HazRPG> right, need to disable telnet off my router, brb
<HazRPG> back
<exobuzz> updated ubuntu maverick images for the joggler http://joggler.exotica.org.uk/ubuntu/
<czajkowski> morning
<dutchie> morning czajkowski
<czajkowski> dutchie: hows you
<AlanBell> morning
<dutchie> tired
<dutchie> might go back to bed now, in true student form
<dutchie> how are you, czajkowski?
<czajkowski> sleepy
<czajkowski> and now my shower wont work
<dutchie> :(
<danfish> ello ello
<dutchie> right
<dutchie> this problem sheet did not necessitate the entire morning
<dutchie> so i am going to make up for 3.5 hours' sleep now
<phonex01> hi anyone there ?
<AlanBell> only us chickens
<phonex01> i majde an ubuntu copy using remastersys but when i boot it its boot as live CD and i dont have any icon to install .
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning earthlings \o/
<DJones> Morning all
<czajkowski> brrrrrr soooooo cool
<czajkowski> *cold
<czajkowski> AlanBell: you about
<DJones> Ugh, Why are mornings so early in the day
<MooDoo> hello all
<AlanBell> czajkowski: I am
<czajkowski> AlanBell: dm me a contact number
<MooDoo> morning AlanBell czajkowski DJones
<cps> Morning peeps :)
<DJones> Hi MooDoo cps
<cps> hey DJones :)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: hiya
<MooDoo> czajkowski: laaura isn't that hard to spell is it ;)
<kazade> morning all
<MooDoo> kazade: morning
<Myrtti> ah ha!
<bigcalm> Good morning peoples :)
<cps> hey kazade and bigcalm :)
<daubers> o/
<cps> such a beautiful sunny morning up here in st andrews
<andylockran> Morning all
<Myrtti> doubletapping in irssi connectbot = alt-a in irssi
<cps> morning andylockran :)
<andylockran> anyone know how to send the f commands into a nested byobu window?
<Myrtti> brilliant
<andylockran> I know ctrl+(a*n) send the screen commands
<bigcalm> popey: inverted pyramid :)
<andylockran> aye, I get it :)
<popey> bigcalm: :)
<bigcalm> popey: I no longer have a life
<popey> hahah
<popey> Welcome to my world.
<popey> I am sucking in as many people as I can :)
 * popey notes directhex was on last night
<bigcalm> Going to start it away from the one we finished last night
 * screen-x strains away from popey's vortex
<bigcalm> Hovering over water I think
<AlanBell> s/sucking in/assimilating/
<directhex> i ransacked bigcalm's house and stole all his stuff
<bigcalm> Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan!
<directhex> found the stash of nude mags under the crafting table. tut tut!
<popey> hah
 * MooDoo must not get sucked into popey and his minecraft world.......
<popey> popeydc.dyndns.org
<popey> DO IT!
<tugrik> lol
<screen-x> nooo!
<MooDoo> noooooooooooooooo lol
<MooDoo> well not at the moment any way ;)
<bigcalm> As I lost everything last night (including 40 odd iron bars), I'm starting completely from scratch again
 * kazade is contemplating downloading Minecraft to his work PC...
<popey> it runs in a browser :)
<kazade> oh god
<kazade> why did you tell me that?
<kazade> :)
<tugrik> he didn't
<tugrik> I didn't see it either kazade, so I'm not tempted either
<tugrik> "/clear" is your friend ;)
<bigcalm> :'(
<bigcalm> It just crashed
<bigcalm> Bloody Java
<Neoti|work> Hey ho people....
<czajkowski> bah not going to get to london tomorrow so flipping busy ;(
<Neoti|work> dont suppose anyone uses Centos with webmin and proFTPd ? or just proftpd in general ....
<Neoti|work> i am having problems with it.
<kazade> does anyone else get that bug where Minecraft thinks a key is being held down?
<bigcalm> Yes
<kazade> much as I love Minecraft, I can't help wishing there was a non-Java version :)
<directhex> there's a clone
<DJones> Heh, the home office is being criticised for spending Â£300K on police.uk website with people suggesting that if they'd used the google maps api it would have been a lot cheaper
<dwatkins> DJones: it's also not been working all morning due to being mentioned on the radio
<DJones> dwatkins: I noticed that, every address I try doesn't exist
<dwatkins> I wonder if they took it offline because they exceeded their ISP bandwidth allowance, DJones.
<DJones> or maybe there's just no recorded crime
<screen-x> DJones: there is no crime
<dwatkins> I know someone who works for the Met on their network side, he said it's a full-time job maintaining their firewalls, and that's just for the London constabularies.
<dwatkins> There's plenty of people attempting to steal data of the police, clearly none of them are succeeding.
<popey> kazade: http://manicdigger.sourceforge.net/news/
<DJones> I'm not too sure about the benefit of the site, yes, you can look up an address to see if its a high crime area before you buy a house etc there, but does it also give criminals a target area, Oh, there's lots of burglaries in that area - They must have something worth stealing
<shauno> or nothing left
<popey> or a police problem
<shauno> I've never lived in a town without knowing what parts of town the money lived in (and didn't live in).  this won't be news to that kinda person
<directhex> popey, open source clone of popular game? how original!
<popey> :)
<screen-x> I reckon streetview is probably more useful to potential burglars
<shauno> I just find it a little amusing that nerds are worried about open information ;)
<popey> they are?
<dwatkins> DJones: I gather rightmove's website has allowed you to look up this data for a while now, directly with a SQL client.
<DJones> dwatkins: Didn't know that, although saying that I've not been looking to move houses lately
<dwatkins> DJones: a friend of mine selected his house using a SQL query based on distance from the station, crime rates, insurance rates etc.
<DJones> :)
<Laney> that must have been one hell of an sql query
<dwatkins> indeed, Laney
<screen-x> dwatkins: linky?
<dwatkins> screen-x: to what, sorry?
<screen-x> rightmove query interface :)
<dwatkins> I'm just saying what I was told, screen-x
<screen-x> ok
<dwatkins> old-skool, without URLs to back-uop my statements.
 * screen-x would like to add some automation to the house selection process
<dwatkins> screen-x: I imagine you could try just pointing your client at their site to see if you can connect, I don't know if things have changed since about 6 years ago, though.
<gord> must be the first of the month, time for my mailing lists to send that "you are still signed up!" message to me a thousand times
<bigcalm> popey: have you increased the render time for the maps?
<popey> dunno why it didnt generate
<popey> running manually now
<popey> might be OOMing
<bigcalm> K
<Laney> gord: http://paste.debian.net/106205/ :-)
<gord> paste.debian.net appears to be the slowest thing on the planet
<popey> odd bigcalm , night just updated fine
<Laney> wget -O /dev/null http://paste.debian.net/106205/  0.01s user 0.00s system 0% cpu 0.903 total
<bigcalm> popey: is the date wrong on your server?
<popey> no, why?
<popey> http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/
<popey> see date stamp
<bigcalm> Yes, was the map created 40 mins ago?
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> Ok then
<popey> night generates first, then day
<popey> note that night has updated
<bigcalm> That's why there's only 1 block showing for my new work :)
<bigcalm> When is the next generation?
<popey> its running now
<popey> they run one after the other
<bigcalm> Constantly?
<popey> no, every 10 mins
<bigcalm> Wow, lots of data to crunch
<bigcalm> Ok
<popey> they run "nice -n19"
<gord> with how long it takes to generate those maps, thats almost constantly ;)
<popey> nah :)
<popey> the gmaps one is only once a day because that takes an hour or so first time, after that it's just changed blocks
<gord> oh right yeah you don't use the lighting option, that like triples the time, just looks way more pretty so i use it
<popey> note the time delta between current_day and current_night now
<popey> thats how long it takes :)
<popey> hmm, 5 mins per png
<popey> so yeah, almost constant
<popey> might change it to every hour
<bigcalm> 30 mins :)
<Myrtti> is that a forest fire?
<gord> 15! 10 minutes of rendering, 5 minutes to give it a rest
<bigcalm> Aha, my work is showing. So much more to do
<czajkowski> ohhh Oracle may not like this http://bit.ly/fNhj3s
<popey> right, running at 15 mins past now
<screen-x> popey: what's that sphere near a thing that looks like a pyramid volcano?
<popey> Myrtti: there are two forest fires
<popey> its gords floating house
<gord> theres no house :P
<popey> floating glass garden?
<directhex> the glass sphere?
<gord> its a self contained biome!
<popey> what do you call it?
<bigcalm> Floating green house
<popey> :)
<directhex> i call it bob
<gord> or as i like to call it "something so i know where the damn spawn is" ;)
<screen-x> and someone has a house on stilts in the water, very cool :)
<directhex> problem with mining on a multiplayer server: accidentally digging into someone's secret underground lair
<popey> might not be a lair
<davmor2> morning all
<popey> i love the farm
<popey> is that your handywork next to the farm bigcalm ?
 * DJones is still waiting for "Farmcraft" or "Mineville" to appear
<popey> oh, and loving the bridge supports
<popey> need to flood that island we dug up last night
<bigcalm> yay for supports
<bigcalm> That is not my work by the farm
<popey> i like how we have a great big map but all bunch up on Spawn Island
<popey> tempted to make that building on the left of spawn island my home
<popey> and re-route trains through it
<gord> its relatively safe there ;)
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
<directhex> lies. i got eaten by a spider on spawn island! :(
<gord> you guys made a station + switching platform for your rails yet? thats always fun, feels like transport tycoon
<popey> not yet
<popey> I do like the idea of a more train-like experience
 * davmor2 is seriously worried about czajkowski's health and state of mind
<dwatkins> DJones: I still play Sim City 2000 occasionally ;)
<directhex> i never liked 2k
<directhex> i liked the original simcity
<directhex> the snes port!
<dwatkins> I'm tempted to get hold of Transport Tycoon the free version.
<Laney> like this: apt-get install openttd?
<dwatkins> Laney: it's that simple? wow
<AlanBell> !info openttd
<lubotu3> openttd (source: openttd): reimplementation of Transport Tycoon Deluxe with enhancements. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.4-1 (maverick), package size 1619 kB, installed size 3940 kB
 * dwatkins installs
<directhex> needs data files from ttd
<dwatkins> Something to keep me busy this evening, thanks Laney :D
<dwatkins> ah, that was what I was expecting, directhex
<Laney> i heard there was Free data these days
<Neoti> have a problem with ProFTPd on one server i can log in on another server i can not i have webmin installed on both and there both configured the same apart from one is 64 bit and one is 32bit same firewalls rules and proftpd is configured the same on both .... any ideas where to start...
<Laney> !info openttd-data
<lubotu3> openttd-data (source: openttd): common data files for the OpenTTD game. In component universe, is optional. Version 1.0.4-1 (maverick), package size 2105 kB, installed size 6596 kB
<directhex> Laney, really?
<Laney> apparently
<directhex> Laney, explains why it's not in multiverse
<Laney> the maintainer is blathjis and hangs around in #d-devel, ask him!
<Laney> is not there now though
<Laney> (I met him once at a conference)
<dwatkins> seems to start ok :)
<directhex> something keeps wiping ipsec-tools.conf :(
 * screen-x tries to read perl
<directhex> my keyboard has a tux key
<DJones> Does anybody have a link to the minimum hardware requirements for minecraft, doesn't seem easy to find on the website
<czajkowski> davmor2: not long now my dear :)
<popey> DJones: lots
<davmor2> czajkowski: yeah looking forward to being able to pull faces at you and you see them ;)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: stop with the my dear lark, i'm starting to thing your a nice lady *shiver*
<DJones> popey: Can you send me one, I'm trying to decide if the machine at home will run it or not before I get to the point of buying it to see what all the hype is
<MooDoo> davmor2: you need to keep her in check mate
<davmor2> MooDoo: I'm playing her at chess she cheats :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: i'm starting to think she's nice :(
<popey> DJones: what spec is the pc?
<directhex> DJones, have you seen screenshots? o_o
<DJones> popey: P4 2.8Ghz/1.5Gb ram, Intel graphics with 128Mb ram
<popey> not sure intel gfx will cope
<DJones> popey: That was what I was concerned about
<kazade> what is that weird bubble thing next to the volcano?
<popey> the one in the sky or the one under water?
<kazade> sky...
<kazade> are they glass?
 * popey points at gord
<kazade> that's pretty cool
<kazade> might have to take a look in a bit, must do some work though!
<kazade> popey, you can see my base now :)
<popey> on the map?
<kazade> I did burn the trees down, but not on purpose!
<kazade> yeah
<kazade> north of the fountain
<popey> i think technically north is down and left on the map render
<kazade> ok, above the fountain then :)
<popey> clearing quite a space there
<kazade> indeed :)
<kazade> I was gonna build a pyramid, but I see someone already did that :/
<kazade> I'll just build a big fortress :p
<popey> we did that last night
<popey> loads of sandstone
<kazade> the mistake I made was to start clearing/building below sea level
<popey> heh
<kazade> I only noticed when I removed a block and got flooded
<kazade> hence the wall..
<directhex> popey, how can the gfx not cope, it's software rendered isn't it?
<gord> gl
<seeker> Jabber \o/
<MattJ> Jabber \o/
<seeker> Is it just me or is the #egypt tag useless due to the number of people tweeting about the speech-to-voice posts from Egypt being posted to twitter with the #egypt tag?
<dogmatic69> is there a trick to making symlink folders
<MooDoo> dogmatic69: not really, are you having an issue?
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> keeps making a broken file
<dogmatic69> ln -s /path/to/real /path/to/link
<dogmatic69> i can do it in php :D
<dogmatic69> any hints? man has -d for folders but says it wont work
<BigRedS>  dogmatic69 what's broken? That's the normal way of doing it
<BigRedS> directories are just another sort of file, after all..
<dogmatic69> it was me, not using full path, but now noting
<n1md4> BigRedS: Disk /dev/sda: 998.9 GB, 998999326720 bytes
<BigRedS> n1md4: :)
<n1md4> Some scary moments there, lots of 'it's fine to delete that, shouldn't have data loss!'
<BigRedS> haha! I hate those "shouldn'ts"
<n1md4> Now to blog ;)
<MartijnVdS> to the blog-mobile!
<BigRedS> of course!
<dogmatic69> BigRedS: http://pastebin.com/c5qHLd6s
<dogmatic69> its lising the files/folders in /from and then complaining that /to does not exist
<BigRedS> dogmatic69: you want ln -s, not ls -s :)
 * dogmatic69 facepalm
<BigRedS> haha. I've done that way too many times :)
<dogmatic69> thanks BigRedS, i had ln when i was doing it before,
<dogmatic69> it gets me EVERY time...
 * MooDoo facepalm for missing it too lol
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<dwatkins> greetings oh brobostigonny one
<MooDoo> brobostigon: hello
<brobostigon> afternoonings dwatkins and MooDoo :)
<brobostigon> dwatkins: hehe, :)
 * dwatkins is now heading off to work from home
<dwatkins> toodleoo folks
<brobostigon> bye dwatkins
<nperry> Hmmm, If i de-attach from byobu, run the byobu upgrade and re-attach.. It should reattach under the new byobu version, right?
<Gringo> Hey all, im quite new to ubuntu any must apps?
<mattt> Gringo: alpine/mutt, irssi, screen, etc. :D
<Gringo> from the software centre?
<directhex> monodevelop
<AlanBell> eclipse
<gord> Gringo, "must have"? what do you want to do?
<DJones> Minecraft?
<gord> i can suggest a bunch of applications that are great but you would prolly have no use for
<Gringo> dunno really some apps you think are worth having
<gord> i refuse to take part in this random app guessing game ;)
<MooDoo> AlanBell: in a toot too chugga chugga big red car :)
<popey> :)
<exobuzz> popey, dont know if you still use jolicloud on the joggler, but ill have a new image ready soonish.
<exobuzz> i released a new maverick one earlier
<Gringo> any apps to sync music with my iphone?
<kazade> Gringo, Rhythmbox should be able to do that (already built-in)
 * AlanBell thinks MooDoo fancies himself as the next Captain Feathersword
<MooDoo> AlanBell: arrrghhh me hearties :)
<kazade> hehe, my tower is taking shape: http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current_day.png
<kazade> just above the fountain :D
<MooDoo> looking
<kazade> looks a bit like part of Battersea power station :p
<kazade> just noticed
<AlanBell> I installed adobe acrobat reader from the partner repo but it is all in German. Anyone know how to fix that?
<AlanBell> responses of "nein" are too predictable
<Baikonur> learn german
<kazade> sudo apt-get remove ?
<kazade> see, your mistake was installing Adobe Acrobat Reader
<AlanBell> not a bad suggestion kazade
<AlanBell> yeah there was some PDF that evince wouldn't view
<Gringo> on the software centre there is 2 version 1 german 1 english
<AlanBell> ah, that will be where I went wrong, thanks Gringo
 * kazade wonders why they needed to be separate apps
<Gringo> np buddy, i just installed it my self :)
<AlanBell> me too kazade, that was what confused me
 * AlanBell does sudo apt-get remove adobereader-deu
<Gringo> should i use the recommended gfx driver within ubuntu or can i somehow download latest? i have nvidia 8800GT
<AlanBell> I did wonder what deu meant at the time
<AlanBell> Gringo: stick to the packaged version
<directhex> Gringo, nvidia-installer eats ubuntus for breakfast
<directhex> om nom nom
<Gringo> lol
<Gringo> when i watch avis i get some rips across the film
<Gringo> if i dont activate the gfx driver i dont get it
<livingdaylight> maybe someone has an idea: every time I shut down or reboot i get a dialog pop up telling me that a program is still running/not ended. Is there a way of figuring out wha tthat is and how to disable it?
<HazRPG> morning
<HazRPG> well I failed at getting up this morning
<Gringo> afternoon
<livingdaylight> It reads: A program is still running: Unknown Not responding
<livingdaylight> Waiting for the program to finish. Interrupting the program may cause you to lose work.
<HazRPG> Gringo: oh yeah, its afternoon now... oops
<livingdaylight> with options to cancel or Reboot Anyway
<Gringo> :)
<livingdaylight> its as though I have a virus
<gord> livingdaylight, using compiz?
<livingdaylight> gord, i don't know
<gord> livingdaylight, do your windows have shadows
<screen-x> livingdaylight: have you tried system > administration > system monitor >processes tab, to see what's running?
<HazRPG> \o/ hurray pistachios!
<livingdaylight> maybe... is there a way I can confirm compiz is running?
<livingdaylight> screen-x, I did have a look but nothing obvious jump0ed out at me
<gord> ps aux | grep compiz
<screen-x> livingdaylight: ps ax |grep -i compiz
<screen-x> too slow
<HazRPG> hmm, what do those commands do?
 * HazRPG always wants to learn more terminal commands
<livingdaylight> yes, looks like compiz is running
<Gringo> ps aux | grep compiz
<Gringo> whats that?
<screen-x> HazRPG: ps prints a list of running processes, grep = global regular expression print, which is a filter that only lets through lines that match a pattern.
<gord> it'll prolly be compiz holding you up then livingdaylight, i have seen that bug on lots of machines
<gord> livingdaylight, its safe to force it to quit
<livingdaylight> I did: ps -u livingdaylight and got a ton of stuff back; how to identify what is causing the issue?
<HazRPG> screen-x: ah, that makes sense
<HazRPG> I know the | lets you pipe commands in :) - if IIRC
<HazRPG> screen-x: ah so the aux part are parameters to show all processes & services
<screen-x> HazRPG: yep
 * HazRPG stores in memory bank
<HazRPG> screen-x: thanks :)
<screen-x> HazRPG: its confusing because they don't need a -  "ps -ax" makes it more obvious that those are switches.
<HazRPG> screen-x: just out of interest, do you call the the '-' a tack or a dash?
<HazRPG> since I've heard techies call them "tack" before
<screen-x> HazRPG: personally I say dash
<HazRPG> when talking about terminal commands
<HazRPG> screen-x: yeah I know, not all commands need the dash though - I use the tar command without the dashes
<HazRPG> for backing up
<HazRPG> although, can be confusing when you've never see the original command before
<screen-x> HazRPG: interesting command structure: tar cz dir |ssh box 'cat - >dir.tar.gz'
<X3N> any electronic bods around? I'm wondering if an idea to make an induction transducer from an old microphone is crack or not
<HazRPG> screen-x: okay, that looks like gibberish to me xD
<HazRPG> I got the first part "tar cz"
<screen-x> HazRPG: then what happens?
<HazRPG> well dir lists directory contents
<HazRPG> but I've never used ssh, so I'm not sure what that's doing
<screen-x> HazRPG: ahh, in that case its an unfair question!
<HazRPG> but would it be say to assume its placing the file onto a separate machine called "cat"
<HazRPG> actually no wait
<screen-x> HazRPG: nope, ok, ignore that command, and play with ssh!
<HazRPG> cat is contactinate?
<screen-x> yeah concatenate
<HazRPG> box would be the machine its ssh'ing into
<screen-x> yep
<screen-x> HazRPG: install the ssh package and have a play, if you only have one box, you can ssh to localhost
<HazRPG> thought ssh needed username/password to work?
<HazRPG> or wait... does it ask for that after the command is executed?
<screen-x> it would prompt.
<screen-x> but ssh can be automated with keys, so it can be used in scripts.
<HazRPG> heh I apparently already installed ssh
<screen-x> :)
<HazRPG> must have wanted to play around with it at one point
<HazRPG> yeah I noticed it asked to confirm the keys
<Laney>  
<HazRPG> oh wow, so ssh basically just gives you a secure connection to a machines terminal
<screen-x> HazRPG: yep
<AlanBell> and more
<screen-x> and filesystem...
<screen-x> and network...
<AlanBell> try ssh -X 192.168..
<HazRPG> nice
<AlanBell> then run a GUI app
<MooDoo> just like logging in to a comand prompt from many a mile away :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> See also scp & sftp
<HazRPG> 192.168... being any machine in the house?
<AlanBell> and port mapping
<TheOpenSourcerer> and sshfs
<AlanBell> HazRPG: yes, as long as both are running Linux (or X)
<DJones> HazRPG: Now that you know about SSH, next step will be "Screen" and then "irssi"
<screen-x> DJones: \o/
<AlanBell> it is a slippery slope DJones
<MooDoo> DJones: which is what i use :)
<HazRPG> yeah, I've got another machine in the house that uses ubuntu too
<HazRPG> in fact, technically 3 now
<HazRPG> netbook (mine), laptop (mine) and a spare desktop I have in my computer room... which my sister uses mainly
<DJones> I thought irssi was a pain to use when I changed from xchat, but I don't think I could go back to xchat now
 * TheOpenSourcerer sticks to pidgin
<popey> \o/ irssi
<HazRPG> lol, is it really better than a GUI client?
<Neoti|work> hey i use Xchat...
<popey> define "better"
<Neoti|work> i dont see anything wrong with it ...
<popey> I didnt see anything wrong with xchat until i moved to irssi
<HazRPG> popey: I meant irssi
<popey> HazRPG: i know
<popey> HazRPG: I'm asking you to clarify "better"
<jpds> popey: Now move to ii.
<popey> heh
<HazRPG> screen-x: good thing I know the man command, so -X basically just enables X11
<DJones> HazRPG: Probably not better, just works differently & suits some users better than xchat/any other gui based client
<s-fox> Hello.
<screen-x> HazRPG: yep :)
<HazRPG> popey: that's why I asked my question lol
<screen-x> s-fox: hi
<s-fox> Hello screen-x  =)
<HazRPG> so would I be right in thinking its kind of like enabling remote desktop?
<HazRPG> except you can access other things the machine has?
<seeker> Hai
<HazRPG> hey
<HazRPG> \o
<s-fox> o/
<Laney> it lets you run applications on the remote machine and display them locally
<screen-x> Laney: I was struggling to come up with something that succinct :)
<Laney> not exactly the snappiest though
<HazRPG> DJones: ooo, and screen is kinda like having sessions for the terminal your accessing
 * HazRPG taps fingers on together
<popey> HazRPG: hey ho, you missed my point, if you dont define what the word "better" means (faster, leaner, less gui, more gui) then nobody can say whether A is 'better' than B
<seeker> I prefer A
<HazRPG> popey: sorry was messing in the terminal, I mean it gives you more features then a standard gui one would - more, erm... freedom to do other things with it (scripts, etc maybe?)
<popey> seeker: you are clearly wrong, B is miles better
<seeker> Pfft, lies!
<popey> dunno, there's certainly a lot of scripts around for irssi to customise it
<seeker> Irssi ftw
<HazRPG> popey: pidgin vs irssi
<popey> dunno, never used pidgin for irssi, it doesn't meet my personal requirements
<directhex> fyi, minecraft crashes on startup if you have a disabled monitor in xrandr
<popey> nice
<Seeker`> irssi ftw
<HazRPG> popey: and what would that be?
<popey> HazRPG: to run on a remote server on a command line interface
<popey> so i can get to it via ssh
<seeker> I don't think there is anything you can do on pidgin that you can't in irssi
<popey> thats a good way of putting it
<popey> yet vice versa.. not so true
<HazRPG> popey: wait, so basically you use it to mask your IP address :P?
<popey> no
<popey> thats not the goal
<popey> thats a by-product
<seeker> HazRPG: You run it on a server using screen
<seeker> Then ssh in to the server
<seeker> That gives you a permanent presence
<DJones> HazRPG: Because irssi is running within screen on a machine 24/7, you never end up logging out
<popey> indeed, people using irssi often look like they are always online
<popey> handy for scrolling back :)
<andylockran> like moi!
<Seeker`> e.g. i can ssh to the server via my phone
<Seeker`> and look at PMs from anywhere with net access
<HazRPG> hmm...
<seeker> Its just easier to use a GUI client on a phone
<popey> and using bitlbee in the same irssi window one can be online in skype / msn / icq / yahoo / google talk etc..
<DJones> Even if you're forced to use a Windows machine, you can still connect via SSH using putty
<popey> yeah, i quite like colloquy
<popey> \o/ exactly as I am now :)
<popey> :( windows
<HazRPG> popey: I guess those are all good things, but my machine is never turned off
<seeker> Apart from the battery drain, colloquy is great
<HazRPG> my pidgin stores all settings, and logs into my dropbox account, which I can access from anywhere
<seeker> HazRPG: Are you always at your machine?
<DJones> popey: putty or puttytray? I found puttytray was slightly more convinient & offered some extra capeabilities
<popey> plain putty
<HazRPG> seeker: most times, but when I'm not I either VNC or Remote Desktop to it
<popey> vnc is quite an inefficient way to get on irc ;)
<HazRPG> true
<HazRPG> but if your not at your machine, I don't see a need to just hop onto irc lol
<popey> hey ho
<popey> each to their own
<andylockran> indeed
<HazRPG> this is true
<HazRPG> everyone has their own needs
<popey> It's Chai O'Clock!
<HazRPG> although I may have to investigate this regardless
<DJones> HazRPG: Depends on your needs, if I'm at home, I still use SSH from my laptop to connect to irssi running on a server (which is on 24/7 as a media/web/print server), if I'm at work I do the same from my office computer
<screen-x> I don't tend to use irssi, but I use a proxy (bip) so I can use a specific client for each OS/platform, without appearing to log in/out when I switch between them.
<andylockran> CHAI!!!
<directhex> popey, fix for xrandr bug is to manually replace lwjgl files in ~/.minecraft/bin with upstream latest ones
 * screen-x is down to his last tea bag
 * seeker teabags screen-x ?
<HazRPG> DJones: yeah I have a server on all the time too
<HazRPG> screen-x: I thought even if your using a proxy you'd still see an online/offline thing going on
<screen-x> HazRPG: well occasionally, but only when my proxy goes down.
<popey> directhex: you using ATI or Intel?
<popey> HazRPG: not necessarily
<popey> HazRPG: I have optionally configured my irssi to show me "away" when I am not logged in, but thats not the default
<directhex> popey, intel.
<HazRPG> wow I have a lot to learn xD
<popey> directhex: does minecraft run okay on it?
<popey> also reminds me, need a new mouse for the kitchen mac
<popey> really don't like the apple mouse
<HazRPG> you mean the whole mousing being the clicking button annoys you too ;)
 * screen-x despises the mighty mouse, but the magic mouse is tolerable. 
 * HazRPG rotfl
<HazRPG> I'm a firm believer in Apple overcharge way too much for their hardware
 * screen-x is a magpie and likes shiny
<HazRPG> everyone likes shiny :P
<HazRPG> I've built better machines then Apple pump out, with longer warranty
<directhex> popey, low detail, normal render distance
<popey> i disagree, but there we go
<popey> I think apple make nice hardware
<HazRPG> I mean, my machine that I'm using right now only cost me the price of DDR3 RAM and CPU, because the motherboard I had gave way before the 3 year warranty on it ended - so got my money back, and bought a better motherboard - that was actually cheaper than the original one
<seeker> HazRPG: They aren't charging for the hardware, they are charging for the hardware, the software and the user experience
<popey> ok, "I got this thing for free, or I already had it, and its cheaper than apple" - well Duh!
<HazRPG> popey: oh don't get me wrong, they do amazing things - which I respect them for, however the price tag is way too much for what you get
<popey> :)
<popey> if that was the case they wouldn't sell so many of them
<popey> https://www.apple.com/investor/
<HazRPG> as mentioned earlier, people like shiny
<popey> people wont pay infinite money for shiny
<popey> I didnt buy my laptop because of shiny
<MartijnVdS> not infinite, but still a lot
<HazRPG> popey: but is it an apple?
<popey> yes
<HazRPG> and was it your first apple product?
<bigcalm> My work is turning treetastic
<popey> no
<HazRPG> there ya go then ;)
<popey> what?
<popey> you said people like shiny
<popey> I said i didnt buy it for the shiny
<popey> you switch tack to something else?
<popey> which is it, shiny or not?
 * popey tires of the endless analysis people try to do when people buy apple hit
<popey> *kit
<HazRPG> you've already associated in your mind that apple makes good products/user experience/support that you automatically would buy their products for those reasons
<HazRPG> I don't blame you
<popey> not automatically
<popey> at all
<HazRPG> I always buy HP laptops for the same reason
<popey> I evaluated a bunch of products
<popey> you're making massive assumptions
<HazRPG> I guess
<popey> i dont "always" buy anyones products
<popey> I have in the last 10 years owned (personally) laptops from HP, Acer, Asus, Dell, Toshiba, and Apple. Through work I've had Dell, Fujitsu and IBM laptops.
<seeker> Ultimately, apple are one of the biggest companies in the world, they must do something right
<HazRPG> well I'll use me as an example, and I've observed it for years with many others too, but I will always buy a Samsung TV - because the first one I ever got lasted even till this very day (it is currently 12 years old). And I still use it as much as when I first got it - never needed repair, etc... and so I've always stuck with Samsung for TV's (i.e. the living room one is a Samsumg)
<HazRPG> seeker: I wouldn't say the biggest, I mean Oracle would probably be the biggest, but since people don't ever see physical products from them - no one even knows they exist
<seeker> I used to buy nvidia cards. Then I switched to ati because they are better for me
<dwatkins> What defines a company as 'big'?
<seeker> HazRPG: Biggest in terms of Market cap
<seeker> Apple has twice the Market cap of oracle
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_global_software_companies
<popey> #1 apple
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_global_technology_companies
<popey> #15 apple
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue
<popey> #110
<HazRPG> figures can be swung depending on what your trying to prove though
<popey> haha
<popey> okay.
<HazRPG> its true
<seeker> Apple are the 2nd in the world in terms of Market cap
<seeker> So the 2nd most expensive company in the world
 * popey notes that at least 3 other people in this channel have the exact same Apple laptop as me
<HazRPG> I mean global warming that's being pushed down our throats for years, is because it's a big industry... yet the one thing they always forget to mention is that the world is on a cycle - we are just hitting the period where the earth's temperature is getting hot again
<seeker> The company is worth over 300 *BILLiON* dollars
<popey> woah there cowboy
<HazRPG> they make it seem like the world is going to end, when really its not the world - its just us that's going to end, the world will still be here regardless
<popey> we've leapt from Apple laptops are only bought by people who like shiny, to apple aren't a big company, to global warming isn't true.
<seeker> HazRPG: And I've got brown hair. How is that relevant?
<HazRPG> oh, was just proving that numbers can mean anything depending on how you want to swing it
<HazRPG> e.g. Carbon emission is meant to be "causing" global warming
<seeker> HazRPG: You cannot reasonably dispute that apple is one of the biggest companies in the world
<seeker> In terms of profit, revenue or value
<HazRPG> well that might be what the figures show, but you could also say the amount of carbon we have now, compared to when the whole world worked on Coal at one point had more carbon in the air - yet it was freezing back then
<HazRPG> seeker: Oh I can't, obviously numbers are numbers
<seeker> Ok, im going to stop here and just leave it with "you're being silly"
<HazRPG> but when one goes out to buy their apple product, it's nothing more than choice - usually swayed by marketing, shininess and being friendly (support)
<BigRedS> isn't that how most purchasing decisions are made?
<seeker> HazRPG: Because no other company has marketing or support? Or shininess?
<seeker> "buy our product, the ui is terrible and it looks like crap"?
<popey> (C) Canonical
<popey> :D
<DJones> HazRPG: i don't buy Apple products, but I wouldn't deny that Apple make great quality hardware, it looks good, it works well and most importantly, it meets the needs of the users
<andylockran> hmm
<HazRPG> lol, yeah but Microsoft is one of the most used O/S's... yet it has more flaws then a bucket filled with holes
<screen-x> popey: you rogue ;-)
<andylockran> my bottom left key (opposite of / is misbehaving)
<popey> The cost of an Apple laptop is only part of the purchasing decision. MY Apple laptop cost about the same as a 'PC' laptop.
<andylockran> when I press it, it zooms my screen in
<andylockran> any idea where this binding may be set ?
<seeker> A bucket full of holes just has 1 flaw
<seeker> It's full of holes
<popey> It's a sieve!
<seeker> Quite
<HazRPG> My PC cost me Â£300-400
<seeker> HazRPG: Mine cost me Â£1200. Your point?
<DJones> HazRPG: My laptop cost Â£2500
<popey> The cost however was only part of the decision. I like the display, the illuminated keyboard, the built in multi-touch touchpad, the magsafe power adapter, the lack of noise, the build quality, the battery life, the speaker quality... and so on.. :)
<HazRPG> yeah, but I built mine - if I'd gone out to get the same spec someone had previously built and loaded up with stuff I'd never use would cost me around Â£1000
 * MooDoo goes out and buys a mac
<seeker> I built mine too
<MooDoo> and then ducks :)
<seeker> I still don't get your point
<HazRPG> seeker: I'm intrigued now, what does yours have?
<seeker> I buy things that meet my needs. I will spend a little extra on shiny, but I won't buy it if it doesnt do what I want
<popey> my apple was 1159.98 inc VAT
<HazRPG> popey: See this is why people think I'm annoying, everyone thinks I just want to make a point xD - all I want are other people's oppinions
<popey> well, you've been telling me why I buy apple
<popey> incorectly
<popey> thats not asking for opinion
<seeker> I7 920@4Ghz, 6GB RAM, SSD, ATi 5870
<screen-x> mmmm i7 9xx
<popey> nice
<HazRPG> popey: yeah, but the average (and I use it loosely) buy into Apple, just because they've used an Apple before
<screen-x> that's shiny :)
<popey> nope
<BigRedS> HazRPG: that, surely, explains Windows users more than Apple?
<popey> bloke sat next to me bought an apple laptop because he saw mine
<BigRedS> given Apple's in a state of growth
<seeker> HazRPG: Is it a problem if they do?
<HazRPG> BigRedS: works for Apple too, some uni's use OSX then Windows
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/205472 they dont make mine anymore
<BigRedS> But that's why I serially buy stuff. I've another thinkpad 'cause I know I like them and don't see what's to gain from trying anybody else
<HazRPG> seeker: oh, of course not - its just some people buy blink, just because they don't want to look into it properly before they buy
<HazRPG> blind*
<popey> wheee mass generalisations fail
<BigRedS> HazRPG: which is fine. People do that with everything. When they don't really care about what it is they're buying of course they're not going to bother going into much detail
<seeker> But you seem to think that is worse for apple than other company's
<BigRedS> people do it with cars and washing machines and computers and crockery and breakfast cereal etc.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Bloke in the pub I know (not a geeky chap by any stretch of the imagination) bought a Mac because he was fed up with Windows being crap.
<seeker> You said you'll do the same for samsung TVs
<popey> Heh, seems fair
<TheOpenSourcerer> My son will be *very* excited when he gets home from scholl. His iPod Touch has arrived.
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: Yeah, but see that's giving another company a chance... most don't tend to do that and just live with what they've got
<popey> I'd probably buy another Apple laptop or maybe a thinkpad after this. Not because Apple is so good, but _every_ other laptop is _so_ bad.
<HazRPG> seeker: I know I do, I buy something I know won't just randomly break down on me
<BigRedS> HazRPG: which is fine, surely, as lon as they're not disappointed with whatever that company is giving them
<HazRPG> BigRedS: of course not
<TheOpenSourcerer> He originally purchased an Archos 43, but the resistive touch was crap and the accelerometer didn't work properly. Shame really - it was a nice idea, just badly executed.
 * BigRedS mourns his H340 again
<TheOpenSourcerer> I recently bought a Samsung TV because it had the best spec for the price. I had had JVC and other models before that.
<popey> 15:26:08 < HazRPG> seeker: I know I do, I buy something I know won't just randomly break down on me
<popey> you don't _know_ that
<popey> you have a preconceived idea about that based on past experience
<BigRedS> this sounds excessively agnostic :)
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: the samsung laptops are pretty good IME
<popey> companies change over time, they use different factories, components, designers.
<TheOpenSourcerer> I have a samsung laptop and am very happy with it.
<BigRedS> mm, I heard good things about them. Keyboards aren't bad either
<HazRPG> I mean my habits (laptop wise) is I won't buy into Acer, Toshiba, Dell, or Compaq (even though they are owned by HP now, they're line is still just poor)
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I have a samsung 2048x1152 monitor that I am staring at right now.
<BigRedS> HazRPG: my last laptop wasn an hp compaq and it was fine
<BigRedS> relatively old, but really quite sturdy
<danfish> My current laptop is a Samsung but is to be replaced next week with a quantum machine with 28 qubits that can exist in 3 states simultaneously
<HazRPG> HP seems to work fine, haven't had a HP go miraculously wrong on me, Compaq's however, I have seen do weird things
<danfish> sadly the cooling is a bit bulky ;)
<HazRPG> popey: No, I observe before I buy. I see the trends in what they use on their hardware before I buy into it.
<HazRPG> like I said, I've not see a Samsung TV go wrong on me... and neither around me
<HazRPG> however I have noticed that something like a LG will...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh yes, before I forget. If you get fed up with the really slow text scrolling in an Ubuntu Server VM in VirtualBox, add "blacklist vga16fb" to /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-framebuffer in the guest.
<HazRPG> my Dad bought an LG TV once, and it last the whole of 6 months
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: does that work in KVM as well?
<HazRPG> likewise with my uncle (different model, different year) and along with others who were around me
<TheOpenSourcerer> pass danfish
<popey> nice one TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Try it :-)
<bigcalm> Niiiiiice
<screen-x> which compiz plugin temporarily shrinks all the windows on your current desktop, so you can see them all?
<screen-x> Its not expo, as that shows an overview of desktops rather than windows
<danfish> ok
<bigcalm> Always running out of sand
<bigcalm> Never enough spades
<popey> hahah
 * bigcalm should stare at some code
<popey> bigcalm: what you building?
<screen-x> its called scale \o/
<bigcalm> popey: inverted pyramid with trees
<popey> where?
<bigcalm> popey: have a look at the day map
 * popey looks on the map
<bigcalm> :)
<HazRPG> oh, minecraft?
<bigcalm> Next to some track on the way to the big house
 * HazRPG still hasn't played that game properly yet
<popey> there's loads of sand near there!
<bigcalm> That's why it's there
<popey> haha
<bigcalm> But I'm always running out of spades
<popey> planning, he has it
<bigcalm> Heh
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: I can confirm it does indeed work in KVM :) thanks
<popey> there's trees on it!
<bigcalm> :D
 * popey rebuilds the gmaps
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: :-)
<bigcalm> I've stopped for a while. Will resume much later
<popey> gonna rsync it up to popey.com :)
<popey> bigcalm: want some help?
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> popey: gladly :)
<popey> are those two edges the limits?
<bigcalm> There is a glass house near the dirt path with a work bench and furnace
<bigcalm> popey: the 4 spokes are just as far as I've reached so far
<popey> :)
<gord> i was thinking "hey it would be cool if someone made google earth support for minecraft maps" - then i realised thats just minecraft
<bigcalm> gord: heh
<bigcalm> So glad I made this over deep water
<bigcalm> Falling off isn't that much of a problem
<popey> so you gonna dig out around it so i could dive in and swim under the point?
<popey> or will it be dug into the ground?
<bigcalm> popey: it's already floating above the water :)
<popey> I'd probably die before reaching the point
<popey> oh
<bigcalm> By 3 or 4 blocks
<popey> ahhhhhh
<popey> you want the point at sea level?
<bigcalm> tp to me
<bigcalm> No
<bigcalm> At the moment I have a dirt starway to get inside
<popey> oh I seeeeeee
<shauno> okay, where do I read up on the noob-101 questions for minecraft?  eg, how am I meant to deal with green boogie men that don't disappear in daytime 'n blow my lil house up
<popey> its not easy to tell what's going on from the pic
<popey> they wont blow your house
<popey> unless you are stood there when they arrive
<bigcalm> shauno: youtube for lots of help :)
<bigcalm> popey: no, not easy, you need to be here ;)
<popey> http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=survive+your+first+night+in+minecraft
<MooDoo> shauno: http://www.minecraftwiki.net/wiki/Minecraft_Wiki
<shauno> MooDoo: perfect
<shauno> I'll check youtube too, but I tend to read faster :)
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraftmap/
<popey> updated :)
<kazade> I can't see this inverted pyramid  :/
<popey> as you look at the map, folow the train to the bottom left
<popey> the shadow on the gmaps interface makes it more obvious
<kazade> bah, still can't see it...
<bigcalm> Humm, where screenshots saved?
<kazade> oh!
<kazade> I found it :D
<popey> :)
<popey> bigcalm: current dir iirc
<MooDoo> kazade: where is it?
<kazade> MooDoo, Look for my tower, follow the train line down to the left from there, go past the first block of land
<MooDoo> kazade: past the snow?
<kazade> no, not that far!
<MooDoo> kazade: oh i'm blind, i can see trees on it:)
<screen-x> I just checked /topic, and minecraft is there, so we're ok :)
<bigcalm> ;)
<MooDoo> i know how i'm going to be wasting my time this evening :D
<kazade> the gmaps interface is great :D
<bigcalm> popey: C:\Users\Iain\AppData\Roaming\.minecraft\screenshots
<popey> http://searchengineland.com/google-bing-is-cheating-copying-our-search-results-62914
<popey> nice
<mattt> what role does dnsmasq play on a desktop?
<bigcalm> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcuthy/5407379185/lightbox/
<HazRPG> you all playing minecraft right now?
<MooDoo> HazRPG: not me
<kazade> I'm working :)
<kazade> although the Minecraft window is over there  ->
<HazRPG> xD
<popey> thats an awesome pic
<screen-x> mattt: I use it for selecting dns servers based on domain
<popey> why the trees though?
<popey> you gonna set them on fire?
<bigcalm> Nooooooo
<MooDoo> blow them up with tnt?
<bigcalm> I like growing trees
<popey> there are random plots of TNT aroundt the map :)
<screen-x> very useful when using openvpn, as you can send queries for the domain accessed via the vpn, to a server at the other end, but use a local resolver for all other queries.
<popey> there's one right near spawn
<bigcalm> TNT is amusing for a bit, now I enjoy creating more
<HazRPG> popey: mind if I join?
<popey> sure
<MooDoo> bigcalm: are you going to make it like a catacomb?  with a maze inside?
<popey> popeydc.dyndns.org
<popey> and dead bodies
<bigcalm> MooDoo: no ideas byond what you see so far
<MooDoo> popey: mind if i tweet that?
<popey> i do
<MooDoo> ok
<popey> we'd get people giving us grief
<MooDoo> ok no probs
<mattt> screen-x: n/m ... was trying to figure out what the heck was starting this ... it was causing me a lot of issues ... but it was libvirt ... all makes sense now
<popey> I do backup though, but people will lose up to an hours work
<mattt> thanks tho :)
<HazRPG> do you need a roof to protect yourself from night time stuff?
<MooDoo> HazRPG: depends on the mode popey has it set to....
<popey> bigcalm: i like burning trees
<popey> monsters are on :)
<bigcalm> http://cuth.eu/mining # I like my own shortener :)
<popey> more fun that wa
<popey> *way
<MooDoo> HazRPG: then yes you do :)
<HazRPG> can you just box yourself in xD
<popey> i should make a time lapse of the map images
<MooDoo> HazRPG: easiest thing to do, is get some torches and dig a hole in the ground or a mountain or a wall :)
<MooDoo> they don't like fire
<HazRPG> yeah, but you need coal
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: As an "i" user, do you know how much an ipod touch depends on iTunes?
<HazRPG> I couldn't find coal in single player mode xD
<MooDoo> HazRPG: yup although you can burn wood in a foundry to get coal :D little tip there :D
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: see libmobiledevice :)
<popey> library which replicates much of itunes
<HazRPG> TheOpenSourcerer: you can use other software, but sometimes can be hard to configure depending on preference of software you want to use
<HazRPG> MooDoo: how do you burn stuff?
<popey> put it in a furnace
<MooDoo> yup
<MooDoo> look at the wiki on how to get a furnace
 * HazRPG facepalms self, should have guessed that
<HazRPG> MooDoo: heh, yeah I'm looking right now
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've just booted my OSX VM (shh) and now have to upgrade iTunes before the iPod will talk to it. Once it's "configured" can my son leave me alone?
<Twinkletoes> If I don't need the extra memory that 64-bit will give me acess to, is it best to stick with 32-bit server version?
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: to some degree yes
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: itunes exists on the device itself, so he can buy/download music / podcasts / apps directly on the device
<MooDoo> Twinkletoes: people do say 64bit is faster?
<TheOpenSourcerer> His PC doesn't really have enough grunt to run an OSX VM.
<Twinkletoes> MooDoo: I've heard... 5% on average
<gord> Twinkletoes, there isn't any reason to stick to a 32-bit machine anymore really if your system supports 64-bit
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ahh - OK ty popey
<popey> np
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer hates freedom :)
 * TheOpenSourcerer does
<TheOpenSourcerer> NOT
 * popey phones Steve Jobs to report as license breach
<Twinkletoes> gord: So, it's not like windows where some software doesn't really work wproperly with 64-bit?
<popey> Twinkletoes: some proprietary stuff has issues on 64-bit, most free software is fine
<gord> Twinkletoes, yup, we compile all the software in the repo's for 64-bit you should be fine
<gord> i'v not heard of proprietary problems for a long time either
<TheOpenSourcerer> I was explaining to my son that I really shouldn't be running OSX (even though I purchased the dvd) in a virtual machine.
<Twinkletoes> popey: gord: MooDoo:  thank you :)
 * gord wants to get rid of the myth of 64-bit being problematic so we can drop 32-bit builds asap! they take time away from building other things dang it! ;)
 * MooDoo wonders when a roller coaster will appear on popey 's map
<popey> there is one
<popey> near the spawn
<gord> i haven't seen it, but i have seen popey's avatar zooming around in the distance when some chunks wern't loaded once, that was fun
<popey> hah
<MooDoo> ha ha ha brilliant
<MooDoo> hmmm no ubuntu logo yet :p
<MooDoo> wow a lot of work has gone into this :)
<HazRPG> darn, I'm never going to find anywhere to destroy stuff to get mats with
<HazRPG> do trees and things grow back?
<popey> if you plant more, yes
<gord> destroy all the logs in a tree and the leaves will die, dropping saplings, pick them up and replant
<gord> if you don't, we all end up with a deforested spawn and have to walk far away to get wood, and that no fun
<HazRPG> heh, game crashed :/
<TheOpenSourcerer> iTunes makes me agree to a software license to use the iPod. Hmm, I'm not used to this...
<popey> so does free software :)
<popey> just slightly less in your face :)
<kazade> it was daylight when I started coming down my tower and it was night when I got to the bottom :/
<gord> isn't the itunes licence the one that says you can't use it to build a nuke or something?
<MooDoo> gord: yup
<HazRPG> hmm, I know its in beta, but it seems really buggy
<gord> HazRPG, it is really buggy, don't worry about it
<HazRPG> ah, as long as I'm not the only one experiencing problems then ^^,
<MooDoo> gord: http://www.raymond.cc/forum/chat/10955-you-cannot-use-itunes-to-manufacture-nuclear-weapons.html
<gord> i use banshee to build my nuke powered swords anyway
<HazRPG> xD
<kazade> Who is chinnybob?
<popey> kazade: ali1234
<kazade> someone is addicted :p
<popey> he has some nice constructions
<popey> the Sphynx and farm are his
<popey> and there's a sphynx underneath the sphynx!
<nigelb> took me a minute to figure out #ubuntu-uk turned into #minecraft-uk :p
<Azelphur> xD
<gord> woo got my ac100 booting off the internal memory \o/
<gord> no more slow sd card for me
<bigcalm> For anybody in need of a giggle: http://www.sify.com/movies/diddy-sued-for-1-trillion-blamed-for-9-11-news-hollywood-lb3qkoibiig.html
<MooDoo> bigcalm: read that earlier, why does this even get to court :S
<bigcalm> MooDoo: because people are dumb
<MooDoo> sounds good to me
<screen-x> I'm surprised the lawyers bite on stuff like that, surely she hasn't got much cash for legal fees?
<DJones> More worrying is that the Judge only denied her request for a restraining order against diddy but did set a hearing date, you'd think any normal person would have picked themselves up off the floor from laughing, then dimissed it & committed the complainent to a mental hospital
<screen-x> DJones: yep
<DJones> screen-x: Just had a thought, the judge is probably letting it go through to a jury, if he rejected it out of hand, she might sue the judge saying he was responsible for the shuttle disaster along with diddy
<screen-x> DJones: hmm, I guess people have a right to a hearing, but that's gotta be pretty expensive.
<AlanBell> open source expo tomorrow peeps
<MooDoo> AlanBell: have fun :)
<HazRPG> okay... that game is addictive
 * HazRPG slowly presses the close button
<MooDoo> HazRPG: welcome to our world
<HazRPG> ^^,
<DJones> HazRPG: Which version were you playing, the bought version, or the old version for free?
<HazRPG> bought
<MooDoo> o/ yay
<HazRPG> free one is... erm... buggy
<kazade> AlanBell, what time does it start?
<AlanBell> can you talk to other people in world?
<HazRPG> AlanBell: yeah
<HazRPG> press T
<HazRPG> just like quake and other games use to do
<AlanBell> kazade: I think it opens generally at 9:00
<DJones> I'll have to try the free one when i get home & see if it works, then if that works, i'll be tempted to buy iy
<AlanBell> exhibitors at 08:00
<kazade> ok cool
<HazRPG> DJones: Free one is good, but I don't think you can connect to popey's world on that though
<AlanBell> I am beginning to get slightly tempted by this minecrack thing
<DJones> HazRPG: Yeah, I wouldn't have thought you could connect
<kazade> who else is going tomorrow?
<AlanBell> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/linuxexposchedule
<HazRPG> I'm giving it a miss, since I'm going to be in preston
<s-fox> o/ AlanBell
<HazRPG> AlanBell: have you tried the game yet?
<AlanBell> o/ s-fox
<AlanBell> HazRPG: no
<kazade> HazRPG, if you fancy a job in Minecraft..
<Mez> Hmm..
<kazade> my tower could do with a ladder up one side ;)
<Mez> I've just had to give Otis Deeley our wifi password.
<HazRPG> Heh, I might tomorrow. Got deadlines to meet :P
<HazRPG> can't sit and play it all day long (I would otherwise if I could xD)
<kazade> AlanBell may find me huddled in a corner tomorrow with my laptop - playing Minecraft
<HazRPG> xD
<HazRPG> heh kazade, you could demo it tomorrow :P
<HazRPG> "Look at what ubuntu can offer you ..."
 * HazRPG 5 hours passes
<Twinkletoes> Wordpress 3.0.5 is avilable from their website, yet it's still at 2.9.2 in the repos.  Is this because of possible security issues?
<HazRPG> "Look Alan, everyone's playing it now! And they all want ubuntu to play it with!"
<Twinkletoes> s/3.0.5/3.0.4/
<HazRPG> Twinkletoes: might not have pushed it into the repo yet, probably checking to make sure everything works, etc
<popey> Twinkletoes: the repo always lags behind
<HazRPG> there's that too
<Twinkletoes> I suppose it doesn't reaslly matter if I choose repo or download, as it's just a bunch of php in a dir
<popey> so long as you keep it updated
 * Twinkletoes nods towards popey
 * popey hugs the wordpress auto updater
<HazRPG> popey: heh yeah I do that too
<HazRPG> speaking of which...
<popey> it's magic voodoo
 * HazRPG goes to update blog
 * MartijnVdS listens to Thriller
 * AlanBell waves http://digitalsurrey.eventbrite.com/ at popey and czajkowski 
<HazRPG> \o/ best shower ever!
<HazRPG> Hurray for DIY!
<AlanBell> and you were not even slighly electrocuted to death
<MartijnVdS> "I'm not dead, I'm just slightly annoyed"
<czajkowski> I've decided Reading Train station is awful
 * MartijnVdS prefers reading books to reading train stations
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: Ha!
<czajkowski> davmor2: keep it up buddy and I wont come and visit you
<davmor2> czajkowski: :(  You could just get a different train in future :)
<czajkowski> I was going from Maidenhead
<czajkowski> to Reading
<czajkowski> to ASh
<czajkowski> to Aldershot
<czajkowski> EVIL!
<davmor2> czajkowski: oh not nice
<czajkowski> indeed
<gord> gord <3 arm
<MartijnVdS> gord: your own arm? or ARM the platform?
<gord> both!
<gord> just wish you could get six cell batteries for this netbook, would get around 8 hours battery life then
<HazRPG> AlanBell: nope, not one bit :)
<HazRPG> AlanBell: was looking forward to a quick zap or two too xD
<HazRPG> any excuse to take it to bits again xD
<daubers> Evening
<daubers> czajkowski: Are they doing work in the station at Reading now?
<czajkowski> I've no idea
<czajkowski> tis just a mad place
<czajkowski> and unhelpful people
<daubers> 'tis one of the big rail hubs
<daubers> 'tis getting bigger as well
<daubers> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPDE8NjjC8k&feature=channel
<jezz> Hi, can anyone help me with disk idle issue
<HazRPG> right, off to preston I go
<HazRPG> catch ya all tomorrow
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] Selling houses with online estate agents - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2011/02/01/selling-houses-with-online-estate-agents
<Myrtti> ho---hum
<popey> wheeeeee
<popey> That is all.
<mgdm> hmmm?
<czajkowski> popey: choo chooo
<jacobw> does anyone know what the feedback drench intro music to Linux Outlaws?
<jacobw> is..
<czajkowski> jacobw: ask in lo channel ?
<jacobw> ah, now I didn't know there was an LO channel
<jacobw> #linuxoutlaws ?
<czajkowski> yup
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Petition against Metered Internet in Canada has Reached almost 250,000 Signatures - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/petition-against-metered-internet-canada-has-reached-almost-250000-signatures
<awilkins> Gnnngh. Just totally messed with my own brain re: where hamster-applet shoves it's database file
<frank_> evening all
<DJones> Hi frank_ :)
<frank_> :) hi DJones
<DJones> frank_: This might be useful for you
<DJones> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/linuxexposchedule
<DJones> Thats the schedule
<frank_> thanks
<frank_> ill be sure to head over to that stall
<AlanBell> http://curiositycounts.com/post/3051085955/the-difference-between-the-united-kingdom-great
<frank_> I heard canonical might have a stall also ?
<DJones> AlanBell: frank_ was asking about people going to the expo tomorrow
<AlanBell> hi
<AlanBell> well I don't think Canonical's marketing manager thinks that they have a booth
<AlanBell> if they have, then I have nicked all their CDs
<frank_> Hi AlanBell
<AlanBell> I know at least one person from corporate services will pop in to the show
<AlanBell> hi frank_
<frank_> my mate did say he "thinks" their might be a stall
<frank_> s/their/there/
<directhex> awilkins, hamster the time tracking thingy?
<AlanBell> frank_: we have a portion of the .org village for the ubuntu-uk community
<frank_> excellent ill head over there tomorrow
<TheOpenSourcerer> talking of which - any time you'd particularly like me there AlanBell?
<AlanBell> any time really
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK.
<AlanBell> I will be going up early as I have to pop into millbank to pick up the CDs I reserved
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - I'll get a later train then save a few quid.
<awilkins> directhex, Yup, got confused between .gconf/apps/hamster-applet and .local/share/hamster-applet (storing db in Dropbox and linking)
<popey> AlanBell: great video
<directhex> awilkins, know whether it can sync to a remote timesheet server?
<awilkins> directhex, There's a dbus API for it, don't know if it inserts data but it can extract it
<bigcalm> popey: been on mc this evening?
<awilkins> directhex, Our timesheet server is crapulous - doesn't even do CSV imports
<popey> only briefly
<awilkins> directhex, Horrible ActiveX controls in IE pages thing *spit*
<awilkins> http://projecthamster.wordpress.com/ # scroll down a bit for really perrrty graphics
<TheOpenSourcerer> We used eHour for a while - that was quite good
<danfish> AlanBell: evening - mini disaster. I can only find my lucid t-shirt :(
<frank_> thanks for the info about tomorrow i will hopefully see some of you there. time for bed got a 6 am start to head down to London :(
<AlanBell> danfish: close enough, look forward to seeing you tomorrow
<danfish> :)
<MonsterKiller> ubuntu server tells me i have mail :o
<MonsterKiller> how does one read it?
<danfish> MonsterKiller: you could install a CLI mail reader such as mutt
<awilkins> Or just type  "mail"
<awilkins> It's very primitive but it suffices
<awilkins> (no idea what client it is)
<MonsterKiller> :p that will do. will try in a sec
<awilkins> Appears to be bsd-mailx
<TheOpenSourcerer> MonsterKiller: you could just try: "$ less /var/spool/mail/username" ;-)
<awilkins> Now you're just getting *fancy*
<dwatkins> fancy schmancy
<Oli``> Does anybody know how one goes about integrating an app through Launchpad's single-sign-on doobrie? Not the OpenID side of things, more like OAuth.
<kitisa> okay
<kitisa> may I know how to download skype on Ubuntu 10.10 software
<Azelphur> kitisa: http://www.skype.com/intl/en-us/get-skype/on-your-computer/linux/post-download/
<kitisa> Azlephur which one should I go for?
<Azelphur> are you on 64bit or 32bit ubuntu?
<kitisa> that is a good question lol how do I find it which one I am using I only do is the new 10.10 version
<Azelphur> kitisa: applications > accessories > terminal, type uname -a
<Azelphur> and paste the line
<kitisa> okay let me do it
<kitisa> Linux kitisa-Compaq-Mini-CQ10-500 2.6.35-22-generic #33-Ubuntu SMP Sun Sep 19 20:34:50 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
<Azelphur> your on 32bit
<kitisa> oh okay cool
<Azelphur> so Ubuntu 8.10+ 32-bit
<Azelphur> :)
<kitisa> awesome I did it earlier but I was not able to open it but let me have a go again
<kitisa> where about do I save it or just go with the default
<Azelphur> just open, default
<Azelphur> it'll open in the software center, you click install, your done :D
<kitisa> azelphur strange it does not come up :( in my software centre :(
<Azelphur> should do
<kitisa> it does not come :(
<Azelphur> kitisa: try opening it in the file browser?
<kitisa> okay I should try to look it Azelphur
<exobuzz> Azelphur, how's the joggler ?
<Azelphur> still down since the microsd failed lol
<Azelphur> havn't bothered to get it back yet
<exobuzz> woops
<exobuzz> i did some nbew releases. working vaapi.. (mostly).
<Azelphur> vaapi?
<exobuzz> hardware accelerated video decoding
<Azelphur> ah cool :D
<exobuzz> actually it's quiet buggy. mpeg4 seems to be good. h264 glitches somewhat. but still nice to see 720p video playing
<exobuzz> (albeit downscaled)
<Azelphur> hehe :D
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-02
<directhex> we have vaapi support? i thought it was still theory
<ilikecows> Can anyone help me setup a second monitor? :3 Albeit it's on Debian -_-
<Azelphur> ilikecows: what graphics card?
<ilikecows> Intel Series 4 chipset
<ilikecows> It's a laptop with a VGA port
<Azelphur> ah
<Azelphur> nfi on debian
<Azelphur> on Ubuntu you just press the button in the monitors gui
<ilikecows> Well the thing is
<ilikecows> In the Monitors GUI here, it see's both monitors. However, it appears as Unknown and only shows some of the resolutions the laptop screen supports
<ilikecows> EG 1380x786 iirc
<ilikecows> But I need 1280x1024. I achieved this ONCE by booting into Recovery mode and it recognized my monitor in the Monitors GUI as Acer Systems
<ilikecows> It showed me the resolutions it really supports
<Azelphur> do you have the clone display tickbox ticked
<ilikecows> No
<ilikecows> The dual screens works fine
<ilikecows> I have an extended desktop
<ilikecows> But
<ilikecows> Maximum supported resolution is 1024x786
<Azelphur> weird
<ilikecows> The one higher, 1380x786, isn't supported
<ilikecows> I don't even have an Xorg.conf file to edit
<Azelphur> maybe it can be done with xrandr
<Azelphur> but I dunno much about that
<ilikecows> And Xorg -reconfigure gives me a skeleton file with nothing in it, dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg does literally nothing
<ilikecows> And xrandr just plain doesn't work =/
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> I'm outta ideas
<ilikecows> Thanks anyway :) Nice to know I'm not the only one somewhat stumped
<ilikecows> Oh and one other question :p
<ilikecows> sudo rmmod pcspkr removes that aweful system beep
<ilikecows> But only for that session/until I reboot
<ilikecows> How do I do it permanently?
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<ilikecows> XD Never mind. Thanks a lot anyway
<directhex> ilikecows, type xrandr into a console, pastebin the output
<Azelphur> I useless :D
<ilikecows> @Azelphur, far from it
<ilikecows> @directhex, http://pastebin.com/py5bURZ7
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> morning
<screen-x> morning :)
<czajkowski> dear gods why does morning come so quickly
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: quickly?
<MartijnVdS> it took forever!
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: not sleeping well?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I tend to wake up an hour before the rest of the world
<MartijnVdS> (i.e. 6am)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I was up about then this morning, not fun..
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: UK time or NL time? :)
<screen-x> UK
<MartijnVdS> so that's 7am for me, proving my point ;)
<screen-x> :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: at least you are cheery with it :)
<czajkowski> think I'll get the 8:34 train
<screen-x> czajkowski: sounds good, don't bother with the metro..
<czajkowski> nope plug in ear phones
<czajkowski> music and wake up
<czajkowski> I also fancy BACON
<screen-x> :)
<screen-x>  /msg quotebot add "(2011-02-02 07:38:57) czajkowski: I also fancy BACON"
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> if I stop at working the sandwich dude on platform 1 does a tasty bap
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> the guy at platfrm 3/4 and 5 isn't half as nice
<screen-x> czajkowski: local knowledge ftw :)
<czajkowski> starving at woking leads to a lot of sampling !
<screen-x> now if only there was some form of short message broadcast system that let you share your opinion of the local sandwich vendors..
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: hotpot!
<MartijnVdS> google.com/hotpot
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I was angling for twitter, but that looks better..
<screen-x> though it can't use an apps account :(
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: it can, but the "friends" bit doesn't work
<MartijnVdS> I'm still waiting for youtube to start understanding apps accounts
<screen-x> ahh, ok
<MartijnVdS> ah youtube works
<MartijnVdS> just have to enable it in the admin panel
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: the google apps control panel?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: yes the "manage my domain" pages
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: then "Organization & Users" tab, "Services"
<MartijnVdS> and there it's at the bottom
<screen-x> thanks :)
<screen-x> what's youtube cms>
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: No idea, I guess it's something for "pro" youtube uploaders
<MartijnVdS> to change their channel's looks
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> YouTube Content Manager is the interface to YouTube Content ID System - our suite of copyright management tools that helps content owners identify and manage their content on YouTube.
<screen-x> ahh, don't need that then
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: you don't want youtube to remove videos with your singing in it? :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: thankfully there aren't any of those (to the best of my knowledge..)
<screen-x> how can I test in a bash script whether a file has been modified in the last x days?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: with one of the "-something" options.. lemme check
<MartijnVdS> wait.. that's only easy in Perl..
<screen-x> find is a possibility, but would be better to use one of the [ or [[ options.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: find can do it
<screen-x> haha snap
<MartijnVdS> with [ you'd need to touch a file and use [ $file -ot $touched_file ]
<screen-x> but then I'd have to have touched the file in the past..
<Mez> Ok, I'm fairly sure that there shouldn't be enough voltage going across a DVI connector (from the monitor) to 1) cause sparks when plugging it in and 2) to give me an electric shock.
<Mez> Or am I wrong?
<MartijnVdS> Mez: low voltage _differential_ :)
<MartijnVdS> Mez: could be 1500/1501V ;)
<Mez> MartijnVdS: ?
<screen-x> Mez: I saw sparks the other day when trying to mash a usb plug into a displayport socket..
<MartijnVdS> Mez: it might mean your PC isn't grounded properly
<Mez> MartijnVdS: it was from the monitor...
 * MartijnVdS has a laptop that's "fizzy" to the touch from electricity
<MartijnVdS> (but only if it's plugged into the wall)
<MartijnVdS> good thing it's a Pentium 2 ;)
 * Mez is a little worried about this
<MartijnVdS> Mez: get a voltmeter, measure measure measure :)
<Mez> the monitor's been playing up for a couple of weeks now (wont turn on in the morning - or after the screensavers gone on, or randomly) - so I'm just going to get a replacement.
<screen-x> Mez: sounds sensible
 * Mez watches the Gadget show on the IP Camera
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<DJones> Morning MooDoo
 * Neoti|work lol @ mez.... stalker !!! lol..... 
<wintellect> Mornin all
<SuperMatt> good ning
<Mez> Neoti|work: why am I a stalker?
<Neoti|work> watching gadget show on there ip cam .... lol
<Mez> What - they're downstairs in our warehouse!
<Mez> Where they're standing, I could go videobomb them from the canteen.
<Mez> oooh... I just noticed - all 4 of them are here.
<daubers> Morning
 * czajkowski hugs ubuntu-uk
<DaveMorris> for those near Sussex - http://email.ietinfo.org/c/11PsTg1vxwodQdjTGk
<DaveMorris>  The danger of software patents - Richard Stallman
<daubers> czajkowski: What did we do now?
<tugrik> any idea if you can run a "normal" Ubuntu desktop, with minimal functionality, without python or perl installed?
<tugrik> ( morning btw )
<czajkowski> daubers: I got bacon.. It made me very happy. I felt the need to share.
<daubers> czajkowski: I see..
<MooDoo> czajkowski: you're worrying me, you've not abused me or davmor2 in a few days now....what's going on?
 * czajkowski hugs MooDoo 
 * MooDoo gives up and enjoys it while it lasts....hugs czajkowski 
<daubers> Off to the show tomorrow \o/
<screen-x> :(
<daubers> screen-x: ?
<screen-x> daubers: proxy seems to be wobbling recently
<daubers> Oh, ok
<daubers> poxy proxies]
<screen-x> ;-)
<kazade> anyone at the expo in Barbican?
<popey> not I
<bigcalm> popey: I've deleted minecraft from my workstation. I found it to be incompatable with productivity
<czajkowski> daubers: me too
<kazade> AlanBell?
<czajkowski> aye he's there
<screen-x> bigcalm: it sounded like you were being very productive in minecraft
<bigcalm> screen-x: I was :) But that doesn't keep clients happy
<popey> hahah bigcalm
<bigcalm> It's still on my laptop though
<czajkowski> no davmor2
<dwatkins> I know I'll get addicted to Minecraft if I start playing, it's bad enough having Sim City 2000 on my personal Macbook as a time-sink.
<czajkowski> very upsetting
<JamesTait> Happy Wednesday folks!
<screen-x> weird, mouse wheel has stopped working
<bigcalm> Out of cheese error?
<DJones> Just replace it with a hampster wheel
<Darael> bigcalm: Or possibly "+++MELON MELON MELON+++"
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> I'm glad people know the reference :)
<screen-x> imwheel -c doesn't register an event when the wheel moves :(
 * screen-x replugs
<bigcalm> Have you tried turning it off and on again?
<screen-x> still the same :(
<gord> weirdly, ffmpeg doesn't seem to come with a vorbis encoder. can't work my brain around that one
<imexil> Hi I was wondering if the directory locations like ~/.local/bin are standardised somewhere? Couldn't really find something useful on freedesktop.org
<popey> ~/.local/bin doesn't sound very standardised
<popey> imexil: what is in yours?
<imexil> popey, I noticed that ~/.local/lib is used and recognised by python. So putting the bins under .local/bin sounded logically and I would prefer that over ~/bin
<popey> none of my machine have a .local/lib
<imexil> strange
<popey> so i guess you've built a python program locally without root?
<imexil> but ~/.local?
<imexil> yes
<popey> i have ~/.local/share, but no lib
<AlanBell> hi all
<imexil> actually I build 'be' (bugsanywhere) and that one installed in ~/bin and ~/lib which did not work
 * AlanBell is at the open source expo
<jpds> ~/.local/share/Trash/ maybe?
<AlanBell> with kazade
<imexil> so I moved it to ~/.local/lib where python automatically recognised the modules
<screen-x> AlanBell: what's going on AlanBell?
<AlanBell> I will sort some pictures in a bit
<imexil> popey: Ha just found it: http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0370/
<imexil> So looks really like a python own 'standard'
<imexil> *looks like
<popey> lovely
<popey> hello AlanBell
<popey> AlanBell: make sure kazade doesn't slack off playing minecraft!
<popey> (or do, and have that as a demo!
<AlanBell> popey: first thing he did was ask me to pull up the map
<popey> lol
 * popey rsyncs the latest map up 
<screen-x> Just switched off old workstation, didn't realise how noisy it was till now!
<bigcalm> A client wants me to put a link to their youtube channel into their website. Is there a location for aproved logos for linking to youtube?
<screen-x> bigcalm: http://www.youtube.com/t/press_room_image_files
<bigcalm> screen-x: cheers :)
<bigcalm> No idea why I couldn't find that
<bigcalm> I such at teh internets
<bigcalm> Damn x-chat kept auto correcting t e h
<popey> :)
<screen-x> 2011-02-02 10:43:35) bigcalm: I such at teh internets
<bigcalm> And I suck
<bigcalm> Bah
<gord> geez, auto-ducking 2 hours of audio on audacity takes like 10 minutes on my computer, audio editing must be hell for people living in like 2001
<bigcalm> I'm tempted to just sit at the bottom of the stairs and wait for my graze box to arrive
<popey> heh
<bigcalm> Client's requirement: "add You Tube logo to match"
<bigcalm> To match the existing images he's created
<popey> AlanBell: hows it going?
<bigcalm> I'm not a graphics person *sigh*
<AlanBell> good, met a few interesting people already
<AlanBell> and I got the CDs from Millbank
<screen-x> bigcalm: I'd use the official ones, don't want to get busted by google..
<bigcalm> screen-x: there isn't a square one
<bigcalm> A YT in a square block would be fitting
<screen-x> but unrecognisable
<bigcalm> GIS to the rescue: http://www.google.co.uk/images?q=yt+square+logo&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1347&bih=834
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraftmap/ updated :)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> I completed a whole side, but it's one that you can't see
<screen-x> popey wow, last time I looked it was just a 10mb jpg
<gord> be nice if signposts were enabled by default on that map
<popey> hmm, wonder how you do that
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<DJones> AlanBell: Have you just seen the email on the mailing list about the expo?
<DJones> "At the expo formerly known as Linux, can't find anyone, no-one's heard of ubuntu or .org. I don't have anyone's mobile number and no one seems to have Skype online. Giving up and going home. " That was from Paula (pmgazz)
<pr0ph3t> I have a Nokia N97 phone, I was able to use it as a modem with the usb cable connected, but now for some reason when I connect it in PC Suite mode ubuntu automounts the phone's drives, tries to lock the camera and won't let me connect to internet. Any ideas why? Could something have changed in the DBus configuration perhaps?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: you can select (on the phone) what kind of device it should be
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: at least, my last Nokia would ask
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: Mass storage, etc.
<pr0ph3t> I select PC Suite
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: what are the other options
<popey> that doesnt sound like the optimal selection
<pr0ph3t> Mass Storage Media Transfer
<MartijnVdS> popey: PC Suite is Nokia-speak for "act like a serial port"
<pr0ph3t> popey, that's what let me connect before and that's what I've read in the forums
<pr0ph3t> because in that mode shouldn't mount the drives
<pr0ph3t> or try to lock the camera
<pr0ph3t> but ubuntu does all that before I even select PC Suite Mode
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: somewhere in the phone's settings there's an option for the default mode
<MartijnVdS> that might have become set to mass storage
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, I have it on "ask on connection"
<pr0ph3t> the problem is that it doesn't matter what I put, because before I can select anything it tries to mount and lock the camera anyways
<popey> hmmm
<pr0ph3t> that's why I was thinking maybe it has something to do with DBus?
<jpds> AlanBell: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-uk/2011-February/028610.html
<pr0ph3t> org.freedesktop.DBus
<davmor2> morning all
<AlanBell> anyone know about evolution being fixed for Exchange access?
<AlanBell> exchange 2003 that is
<davmor2> AlanBell: no idea sorry I don't have exchange
<MartijnVdS> I hope it will be
<MartijnVdS> because at work it's broken
<MartijnVdS> also, exchange 2007
<MartijnVdS> (it's been flaky forever though)
<AlanBell> jpds: thanks, bother
<popey> pr0ph3t: when did it stop working?
<BigRedS> Quick non-ubuntu question - how is "irssi" pronounced?
<popey> eye ar ess ess eye
<popey> or
<popey> ersee
<popey> or
<popey> "Who cares?" :)
<pr0ph3t> popey, I only used it once, and then I tried to use it again last night but ot wasn't working. The connection is all ready, the modem is recognised, the sim card is registered, but it doesn't connect, the apn is right as well
<popey> when did you last use it? was it under a different release of ubuntu?
<BigRedS> :) I'm just introducing it to someone and they asked. I get told off for my mispronounciation o f'debian' tho thought it best to check
<Laney> i usually say it like 'irc' :(
<popey> if someone tells you off for mispronouncing stuff then ask them how they pronounce "Nokia" and "Nike"
<popey> and then proceed to tell them they pronounced it incorrectly, _however_ they pronounce it
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> http://www.observer.com/2011/tech/flickr-accidentally-deletes-users-4000-photos-and-cant-get-them-back
<czajkowski> I have people tell me I say my name wrong :s
<popey> \o/ cloud computing
<pr0ph3t> popey, I last used it a few days ago under the same distro
<andylockran> howdy
<andylockran> not happy.. expenses paid Â£300 less than expected. says I filled the form in wrong.  Good job I kept a copy of what I filled in as file I uploaded modified..
<dwatkins> ouch, andylockran :(
<MooDoo> popey: ouch, a lot of photos....
<davmor2> czajkowski: that cause this is how you spell czajkowski http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyotr_Ilyich_Tchaikovsky
<davmor2> morning czajkowski
<MooDoo> davmor2: nice to see the abuse back in action :)
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
 * davmor2 is confused as to why when searching apps for idle tomboy appears
<MooDoo> .fasinfo misaakidis
<MooDoo> oops :D
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: Stalker! Stalker!
<MooDoo> lol
 * czajkowski hugs MooDoo and davmor2 
<czajkowski> how are my two favourites doing
<bigcalm> Why does our joint account have so much money in it? I fear some direct debits are late
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: they decided you needed the money more this month ;)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: how thoughtful :)
<dogmatic69> bigcalm: because they want you to spend it and then double debit you next month
<davmor2> czajkowski: when you were poorly did you slip and hit your head at all ;)  I'm busy and tired you?
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'm fine thanks, and you are so feeling poorly, you've not insulted me once in a few days...:)
<DJones> bigcalm: Maybe your wife has had a pay rise
<bigcalm> DJones: tricky ;)
 * MooDoo hugs czajkowski just for the hell of it and he's feeling brave :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: Her's going for that reverse psychology malarkey, being nice to drive us up the wall :D
<bigcalm> If my girlfriend had a payrise, I doubt that she'd just throw it at the joint account ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: it's working.....
<MooDoo> davmor2: sort her out will you....) it's not natural :)
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<bigcalm> Woop, almost exercise time :)
<bigcalm> Hi
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<davmor2> MooDoo: Not till after tomorrow I think you'll find :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: what's happening till tomorrow?
<davmor2> MooDoo: We're both at canonical :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hope you're taking protective equipment....
<MooDoo> davmor2: are you going for a particular reason?
<davmor2> MooDoo: I work for them :D and a new piece of work went public yesterday so it's overview time and part of my team are sprinting there too
<MooDoo> davmor2: well that explains it then :D
<MooDoo> davmor2: need a tea boy?
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oh and of course czajkowski will be there
<popey> Oi! That's my job!
<DJones> popey: But you need an assistant tea boy for when you're Minecrafting
<MooDoo> davmor2: picture or i won't believe it ;)
<davmor2> popey achieves teaboy status in minecraft
<MooDoo> went on the server last night, but my connection was being crap
<popey> :(
<czajkowski> davmor2: :D
<czajkowski> MooDoo: you could join us
<czajkowski> the 3 of us go for Tea
 * popey re-runs the "Who spends too much time in minecraft" report
<MooDoo> czajkowski: don't beat him too much :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: when you doing the "lets take ubuntu uk irc'ers on a tour of canonical towers?"
<gord> its not that exciting there ;) its an office
<davmor2> MooDoo: No plan to do that but to be honest it's just an office
<MooDoo> gord: i know it's the mystique of it as well ;)
<popey> its quite dull, other than the view
<screen-x> of all the macs?
<gord> gord towers is much more exciting
<gord> has a cat
<davmor2> popey: true the view is pretty impressive
<gord> and a gord
<MooDoo> pah ruin my dreams ;)
<davmor2> gord: they've got loads of cat ...........5 cable
<gord> *crickets*
<popey> http://tumbleweed.popey.com/
<davmor2> popey: I've tlod you before you need to animate that to make it funny
<brobostigon> morning again, everyone.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> MooDoo: good morning.
<popey> we should have another quiz night
<screen-x> popey: irl?
<popey> online
<MooDoo> sounds good
<screen-x> more likely to be able to make an online one :)
<brobostigon> interesting,
<DJones> That sounds a great idea
<popey> we did a few some time ago
<brobostigon> yes. i remember.
<Myrtti> meh, waiting
<Twinkletoes> Part of my init script looks like this (10 lines): http://paste.ubuntu.com/561369/  .  When the process is started, everything works as expected, but if the process is not running, and ps -u returns no output, no other lines are echoed to the screen.  Any ideas?
<pr0ph3t> re all
<pr0ph3t> I managed to connect with bluetooth as well now
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, you said you had nokias before, do you use android now if I may ask?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: yes
<MartijnVdS> Nexus One *stroke*
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, do you find it more compatible in some ways than an S60 phone with Ubuntu?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: I've tried USB and wifi tethering, both work fine
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: USB data storage works with banshee, rhythmbox, f-spot, shotwell
<MartijnVdS> so it's at least as compatible :)
<MartijnVdS> I sync it with my Google account, so no issues there either (I use google's web interfaces on my desktop, not Evolution/other crashy software)
<pr0ph3t> I sync on oviweb as well
<pr0ph3t> ok so really there is a very good support for S60 in ubuntu, I can also use it as a remote for media applications and as a ssh client
<pr0ph3t> which you can do with android as well
<pr0ph3t> so there is really no need to swap to android from S60 as far as compatibility goes
<pr0ph3t> fantastic
<screen-x> any recommendations for reasonable cheap 24" monitor? Only for office/browsing/xterm usage.
<X3N> just got an LG Flatron W2442PE, it's OK
<X3N> nothing special
 * MartijnVdS waves at X3N in hd
<X3N> o/
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I've found Dell screens to be very good
<screen-x> Thanks X3N.
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I'll check them out.
<Oli``> Their UltraSharps are disgustingly good in my limited experience
<Oli``> But similarly expensive
<screen-x> Oli``: yeah, out of range
<Oli``> If you can find any, I can recommend Samsung SyncMaster 245Bs
<screen-x> ooh, I have a 245BW at home..
<Oli``> Mine are a couple of years old now so they've probably replaced the model
<Oli``> Don't know the difference between the B and BW... Looking at a review, the bezel just looks a bit shinier
<screen-x> this looks pretty similar, and cheaper: http://www.dabs.com/products/samsung-syncmaster-2443bw-24--widescreen-1920-x-1200-5ms-dvi-d-vga-height-adjustable-lcd-monitor-6CY8.html
<Oli``> They haven't dropped much in price
<Oli``> Oh I see, different model
<Oli``> Now you've got me thinking about monitors. This will only end expensively.
<screen-x> http://www.ebuyer.com/product/173836?utm_source=google&utm_medium=products
<Oli``> I'm also on ebuyer... http://www.ebuyer.com/product/195484
<Oli``> It's a good thing I can't afford two of those.
<screen-x> heh this is for work, no chance of that sort of thing!
<screen-x> Though, having used a 27" screen, you don't want 2 of them,  you'd have to move your head too much.
<Oli``> Not sure I could fit two 27" screens on the desk without it collapsing anyway
<Oli``> Hah, that's probably true too
<screen-x> Maybe if they were both standard aspect, that would be good :)
<popey> define standard aspect ;)
<screen-x> popey: !wide
<popey> thats not an aspect ratio I recognise
<Oli``> 4:3... ish
<popey> try 16:9, 16:10, 4:3...
<screen-x> "fairly square"
<Twinkletoes> If you type 'ps -u <some_user>' && echo "XXXX" ', if ps returns some results in addition to it's column headers, then you'll see XXXX underneath.  If ps only returns column headers because it can't find any process with that user, then XXXX is NOT displayed.  why is this?
<popey> Twinkletoes: run ps -u someuser, and then run echo $?
<popey> you will see if ps runs okay you get a return code 0
<popey> if it doesn't find any processes you get a return code 1
<popey> the && is only doing the echo if rc=0
<Twinkletoes> popey: In my init script I have the two commands on 2 separate lines, and the echo doesn't work.
<popey> i dont understand "doesnt work"
<popey> I was just explaining why echo "XXXX" doesn't happen
<popey> its because ps -u <fu> returns no results
<Twinkletoes> popey: I was trying to simplify the problem - which I thin kyou've solved for me, so I was trying to give you my original issue
<popey> :)
<Twinkletoes> popey: http://paste.ubuntu.com/561369/
<Twinkletoes> If ps -u jira returns nothing, then nothing else after that line is executed in the script
<popey> ahh
<popey> inside a case
<popey> it's seen as one line I guess
<Twinkletoes> Yes
<popey> stick it in a function
<popey> status)
<popey> check_status
<popey> then have a check_status function which does all that stuff
<Twinkletoes> popey: Ah, ok - is it something to do with the way case statements work... one line?
<popey> yeah
<Twinkletoes> popey: Let me try that - thank you
<popey> np
<screen-x> !abs
<lubotu3> Advanced Bash-Scripting Guide, obtainable with ${package-manager} install abs-guide, is a quick and comprehensive guide to bash (command line) scripting in *nix systems. It is also viewable via web at http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/
<Twinkletoes> screen-x: looks good... available as a pdf?
<screen-x> http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/abs-guide.pdf
<Twinkletoes> Oh my word - that was too obvious, I'm soooo embarrassed
<AlanBell> danfish has arrived \o/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Laura Czajkowski] Being a locoteam - http://www.lczajkowski.com/2011/02/02/being-a-locoteam/
<popey> AlanBell: yay
<Myrtti> b
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: c.
<Twinkletoes> popey: Crap - I've fouind the problem....
<Twinkletoes> popey: the script was using /bin/sh with -e
<Twinkletoes> popey: Who on earth would ever put that in a script!
<popey> hah
<popey> I find ALT+Tab on Ubuntu to be incredibly slow, much slower than on lower spec Windows / OSX machines.
<popey> On windows/osx it's _instant_
<popey> On Ubuntu its ALT+TAB.. wait... there it is!
<dutchie> i can't see any delay here
<dutchie> but then i don't have oxs/windows to compare it with
<dutchie> osx
<popey> will video it when i get home
<AlanBell> just updated natty but I don't get the draggable window borders
<AlanBell> shadows I mean
<stgraber> popey: alt-tab on natty is really slow, especially with > 20 windows. Surprisingly the expose-effect (win+w) is extremely fast
<popey> thanks stgraber
<stgraber> so for now, I'm using alt-tab only for windows that are minimized and use win+w for everything else
<gord> alt tab is slow, wonder if compiz is making mipmaps
<gord> popey, stgraber you might want to try using a different plugin for alt-tab, compiz comes with a few
<davmor2> popey: it's pretty quick here you sure it's not an issue with you gfx, I'm on intel here
<X3N> pretty slow for me, I'm on intel too, 17+ apps but I'm using metacity's compositor
<popey> gord: I'd like to use whatever we're shipping
<popey> I dont want to switch to something else and miss a bug
<popey> which is also why I haven't switched off global menu, despite getting very frustrated with it
<ali1234> frustrated?
<X3N> it's like annoyed but with more desperation
<X3N> but that's not important right nowe
<X3N> -e
<popey> HEHE
<popey> -caps
<tugrik> X3N: :)
<lazarus_> where would i start if i wanted to make my own spin off of ubuntu ?
<DJones> !remaster
<lubotu3> Interested in remastering the Ubuntu !live CD? See: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/LiveCDCustomization or use tools such as http://uck.sourceforge.net/ or http://linux.dell.com/wiki/index.php/DRU_Disc_Remastering_Utility
<DJones> Have a look at those links, might give you a starting point
<screen-x> lazarus_: what do you want to change?
<gord> there are cases where global menu annoys me and cases where i really like it, don't honestly know what to think of it yet
<gord> even though i'v been using it for about a year
<lazarus_> screen-x: default programmes themes login sounds add better manuals flash and so on
<lazarus_> its going to be mostly for personal use
<screen-x> lazarus_: Those can all be achieved with packages
<screen-x> lazarus_: so my suggestion would be a few packages, and a metagpackage that depends on them all, in  a ppa
<lazarus_> screen-x: im trying to have these preinstalled so it's efeectivly a ghost image
<screen-x> lazarus_: ah ok.
<lazarus_> excuse my bad spelling
 * njpatel breaking nux again
<njpatel> and this is the wrong channel
<DJones> njpatel: No, this is the right channel, it must be, we're all here
<njpatel> I dunno, you guys could all be a figment of my imagination. I could be Neo inside a shitty matrix ;)
<bigcalm> !ohmy
<lubotu3> Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others.
<DJones> Depends, did you eat the Blue mushrrom, the red mushroom or the fluorescent multi-coloured one?
 * brobostigon gives up on trying to solve a "diabolical" difficulty sudoku.
<njpatel> i apologise :)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: have google goggles do it :)
<bigcalm> brobostigon: scan it with googlegoggles ;)
<MartijnVdS> ^5 bigcalm
<brobostigon> cheating, MartijnVdS and bigcalm.
<njpatel> The purple mushroom with orange stripes
<bigcalm> Very much so
<bigcalm> But if you give up...
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i might try again later.
<DJones> njpatel: That explains it
<brobostigon> i resorted to google goggles,
<bigcalm> Heh
<brobostigon> bigcalm: i got frustrated.
<popey> didnt know google goggles could do sudoku
<brobostigon> first time i tried it, it worked well, quite quickly awell.
<brobostigon> i wonder if i can deal with one of those big ones, with 5 connected together.
<brobostigon> if it*
<brobostigon> nope, ohwell.
<screen-x> Best thing about monaural telephone headset: can have earphone in the other ear. Worst thing: bitshifter in one ear and hold music in the other is really odd.
<Mez> screen-x: that'd just confuse me.
<bigcalm> Skype reduces all other audio channels when in a call. Great, except that it doesn't then restore previous values afterwards
<bigcalm> (windows)
<Mez> screen-x: I also hate monaural telephone headsets.... espescially with what I have to use them for.
<ali1234> the skype UI is horrible bloatware on all platforms
<popey> +1
<ali1234> however, the telepathy integration done by collabra is absolutely incredible
<ali1234> *collabora
<kazade> afternoon all
<MartijnVdS> \o kazade
<popey> hullo kazade
<kazade> Just got back from the expo :)
<kazade> there wasn't much actual open source going on...
<kazade> lots of "cloud" though
<popey> what a surprise
<kazade> I went to a couple of talks on OSS, but there was nothing in the afternoon, so I went to the pub instead
<kazade> last I saw of AlanBell he was drowning in people eager to try Ubuntu ;)
<kazade> now, down to business..
<kazade> finishing my Minecraft tower ;)
<popey> :D
<kazade> I did play it at the expo for a bit
<popey> haha
<kazade> but laptop touchpads aren't built for it
<ali1234> if he made it into a mobile app somehow he'd be an instant billionaire
<popey> someone made a rip off version
<popey> and then removed it from the store
<directhex> port minecraft to c#, offer versions for iphone/android/wp7/wii/ps3/linux/mac/windows/silverlight. easy!
<popey> port minecraft to python...
<popey> wait...
<popey> wait...
<popey> etc
<gord> the android guys got in touch with the minecraft guys at once point (over twitter, its all java and such), don't think anything came of it though
<bigcalm> I don't see how the interface would work
<popey> http://twitter.com/#!/minecraftapp
<popey> there are screenshots about
<kazade> what. the.
<kazade> there are creepers on the top of my tower!
<MooDoo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-9K8ZQTOMY
<kazade> they just blew me up and the view point :/
<popey> haha
<popey> you need more lights up there
<popey> i went up there last night and it was very dark in the tower staircase
<popey> wonder if stone is more resiliant to explosions
<popey> if you chuck cobble into a furnace you get stone
<popey> looks nicer too
<MartijnVdS> "looks nicer" is relative :P
<popey> heh ofc
<kazade> well, the platform is (was) made out of wood..
<kazade> I'd nearly finished it too :/
<gord> if you need something creeper proof, you gotta go obsidian, takes foreeeever to mine though
<popey> yeah, need lots of diamond for that
<kazade> ah, only just discovered charcoal!
<kazade> that makes life easier!
<directhex> BURN WOOD
<kazade> yeah, I know that now :)
<kazade> I've been searching high and lo for coal!
<screen-x> someone needs to write a minecraft <--> irc gateway
<popey> charcoal?
<popey> screen-x: there is one
<screen-x> heh
<dutchie> popey: smelt wood and you get charcoal, which is like coal in every way except you can't stack the two in the same inventory slot
<popey> thanks!
<popey> wood as in trees or planks?
<dutchie> trees iirc
<danfish> greeting from the expo - we're still here :)
<dutchie> yes, straight from trees
<brobostigon> afternoonings danfish :)
<danfish> lo
<popey> danfish: is anyone else?
<popey> danfish: also, photos!
<danfish> popey: the Alans, bruno girin, and barry drake
<danfish> i'm sure piccies will follow
<danfish> just planning pub - the Shakespeare http://ubunt.eu/je
<davmor2> who's at the show?  I hope they have minecraft installed :D
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> not installed it yet
<davmor2> AlanBell: Sensible man you wouldn't get people away from the stand :D
<danfish> oops - the Shakespeare http://ubunt.eu/jf
<TOSDroid> Hi from the expo.
<davmor2> AlanBell: how's it going at the expo?
<AlanBell> going quite well
 * screen-x converts an article about wound healing in mules to docbook xml
 * dwatkins visits ubuntu.com and for a moment wonders what happened to his language settings
<popey> heh, nice
<jpds> dwatkins: Nothing, your traffic's going through China.
 * dwatkins grins
<dwatkins> I translated the message on the download screen just in case it had changed, it had not
<andylockran> howdy
<screen-x> hi andylockran
<andylockran> how's things?
<screen-x> I'm lookint at htop, I have no swap configured, yet the virtual memory use and resident memory use are not the same, why not?
<screen-x> so X is using 200M of Virtual memory, and has 80M resident, where is the other 120M if there's no swap?
<directhex> hiding
<directhex> under the sofa
<screen-x> free -mt --show-sofa
<screen-x> nah, not there
<screen-x> am I misunderstanding Virtual Memor
<screen-x> +y?
<MonsterKiller> is there a way i can get a certain part of a package? i could do with the lighttpd init script for server 10.10
<screen-x> MonsterKiller: you extract the contents of the package in a temp dir, then copy the file you want.
<screen-x> MonsterKiller: ar x  If I remember correctly.
<directhex> dpkg -x
<screen-x> Apparently Virt includes all program code/libraries that are linked to the executable, some parts are not resident because they have been needed yet.  Therefore Virtual  > Resident although swap=0
<popey> MonsterKiller: apt-get source lighttpd
<popey> will unpack it for you :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: only if you have dpkg-dev installed
<popey> pretty sure I have done apt-get source foo on a plain system
<gord> apt-get source works on plain systems yeah
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<MartijnVdS> it didn't "back in the day"
<popey> i just did it on my server with no dpkg-dev
<popey> gmb: http://twitter.com/#!/Documentally/status/32841166135230464 saw that and thought of you
<MartijnVdS> maybe it grew up
<exobuzz> some dists lack the deb-src lines which are needed to grab the source of course.
<exobuzz> easy enough to add
<gmb> popey: Thank you kindly. Not a date that I can do, but the thought is appreciated.
<exobuzz> dpkg-dev is needed for building from source with say dpkg-buildpackage. only apt-get needed to grab the source (with the deb-src lines)
<kazade> popey, I'm getting there with the tower :) http://popeydc.dyndns.org/maps/current_day.png
<kazade> although, spiders keep spawning on the roof and killing me :/
<popey> kazade: you need a bow and arrow :)
<popey> *arrows
<kazade> :)
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraftmap/
<popey> updated
<popey> I need to schedule that to rsync up
<kazade> I wanna put a fire up at the top of that tower (inside)..
<kazade> but I'm terrified it'll burn the floor
<kazade> that floor has taken me HOURS and countless falling off :p
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> new pub location!!
<AlanBell> pub #3
<popey> hah
<AlanBell> The Trader pub on Whitecross street
<popey> kazade: seen the skywalk the linux outlaws guys have on their server?
<popey> http://alain.sixgun.org/map/
<terran> Pub?
<kazade> wow that's pretty impressive :)
<kazade> popey, someone just needs to duplicate my tower somewhere else and we can join them up ;)
<popey> kazade: will do :)
<popey> how about the land to the north with all the trees
<gord> anyone got a rotated display in natty want to confirm a bug for me?
<kazade> popey, perfect, try and make it line up though ;)
<popey> or half way between yours and the pyramid
<popey> (upturned)
<kazade> actually that's probably better
<kazade> as it will actually seem to go somewhere ;)
<popey> :)
<popey> hey, every direction goes somewhere
<kazade> the tower is 5x5, and I've learnt from experience ... build a ladder as you do it
<popey> heh
<kazade> mine has a ladder up the back now after I got sick (almost literally) of going round and round those stairs ;)
<bigcalm> Damn it, just played mc on mc.net
<kazade> I'll start building a path from mine in that direction
<bigcalm> I have no control any more
<popey> lol
<bigcalm> Used up the sandstone in the chests. Only 1 side left to finish
<kazade> popey, what should the walkway floor be made of?
<kazade> we could make it grass ;)
<bigcalm> Cloud
<brobostigon> is it possible, with the multiplayer minecraft classic, to connect to servers that arent in that list, http://www.minecraft.net/servers.jsp  , just curious.
<popey> the free version, no
<brobostigon> ok, thanks popey
<bigcalm> Buy the game, it's cheap :)
<popey> brobostigon: do you have a machine it will run on?
<brobostigon> popey: what kind of specs do i need ?
<popey> dunno, I have only used a machine that's quite pokey
<bigcalm> pokey popey
<popey> hokey popey
<screen-x> left leg in.. right leg out..
<bigcalm> That was in my mind as well
<bigcalm> :)
<brobostigon> will 1GB of ram, an 1ghz athlon, and a resonablyrecent nvidia work?
<popey> how much ram does your machine have brobostigon ?
<bigcalm> Humm
<bigcalm> Java is hungry
<popey> you can tweak java a bit
<brobostigon> yes
<brobostigon> ok, thats good.
<DJones> brobostigon: I tried on a 2.8Ghz, 1.5Gb machine with Intel Extreme graphics last night & the free version didn't work for me
<popey> DJones: define didnt work?
<popey> http://www.minecraftforum.net/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=29145
<popey> that thread says what the specs are
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> nowhere near.
<popey> :(
<brobostigon> ohwell.
<gord> adding "Extreme" to "Intel Graphics" makes me think that its prolly a rather underpowered gpu that they added a buzzword to
<davmor2> gord: wait till they hear the word "Vengeance" if they add that to the end it  becomes a kick ass gfx card right?
<gord> davmor2, no, adding an X only, or just putting more numbers in makes graphics cards better
<popey> wow bigcalm, nearly finished
<bigcalm> Not sure what to do with it
<popey> make a hole in the bottom, and fill buckets with water and have them cascade down the inside :)
<popey> and out the bottom
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I get the error insmod: error inserting 'asus-laptop.ko': -1 Unknown symbol in module. How do I find out more precisely of what it's talking about
<pr0ph3t> is "-1" the unknown symbol?
<pr0ph3t> I have the source code so I would be able to modify it. Also is it possible that this happens because I need a newer kernel or gcc or something?
<popey> how are you inserting it?
<popey> and what happens if you type "modinfo asus-laptop"
<popey> (can you pastebin the output)
<popey> bigcalm / ali1234 / kazade, I have automated it so when gmaps and static maps generate they upload to popey.com so should be faster to load. links at http://popeydc.dyndns.org/
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> Hasn't been updated recently then :)
<popey> yeah, checking :)
<pr0ph3t> popey, http://pastebin.com/m8WnaQ9y
<pr0ph3t> syntax error in the source code?
<popey> 17:52:36 < popey> how are you inserting it?
<pr0ph3t> popey, using insmod, so I guess?
<pr0ph3t> not sure whAT YOU MEAN
<pr0ph3t> sorry caps
<popey> can you paste the output of  the following commands:-
<popey> lsmod
<popey> modprobe asus_laptop
<popey> sorry, sudo modprobe asus_laptop
<pr0ph3t> popey, with underscore?
<popey> yeah
<pr0ph3t> ok
<pr0ph3t> popey, lsmod http://pastebin.com/GCc6eR8n
<pr0ph3t> no output for sudo modprobe asus_laptop
<popey> ok, lsmod again
<popey> and pastebin
<popey> sorry pr0ph3t I'm off home
 * brobostigon starts cooking a beef curry,
<s-fox> Goodbye.
<q_a_z_steve> Anyone here know of a reputable registrar for .it TLD?
<MartijnVdS> maybe gandi.net does .it?
<MartijnVdS> I like gandi
<brobostigon> curry ready, ,nomnomnom
<Darael> q_a_z_steve: Goscomb (goscomb.net) have always served me well and they do .it, if gandi doesn't.  Or if you want someone to compare.
<q_a_z_steve> thanks Darael MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> ivanka-train: you're your own train now? 8-)
<ali1234> popey: when is "current_day.png" generated... whenever i look at it it is always up to date
<s-fox> Hello.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Weekly Q+A Sessions - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/02/weekly-qa-sessions/
<HazRPG> hey :)
<HazRPG> \o
<MartijnVdS> \o HazRPG
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: o/
<HazRPG> Just gotten back from Preston
<HazRPG> anyone gone/is current @ the cloud expo today?
<MartijnVdS> lots of people went
<MartijnVdS> but they all called it unpleasant family-unfriendly names
<HazRPG> who, the business men who went, or our #ubuntu-uk guys?
<MartijnVdS> Ubuntu peopel
<MartijnVdS> people*
 * MartijnVdS listens to some more 80s records
<DJones> popey: I haven't tried "define" yet, going to give it a go later
<mgdm> MartijnVdS: rickrolling yourself? :)
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: no, though I could
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'm intrigued, why were they saying bad things about ubuntu? Surely its not that bad?
<HazRPG> What happened exactly?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: apparently, they were saying "cloud" a lot, and not much "Ubuntu" at all
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: Oh the actual conference people, or the ubuntu stall guys?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the people who went to the conference
<MartijnVdS> said that about the conference
<HazRPG> huh, that sucks
<HazRPG> has anyone blogged about it, so I can read?
<MartijnVdS> uhr
<MartijnVdS> check the planet :)
<MartijnVdS> and/or today's backlog
<HazRPG> did anyone from omgubuntu go?
<mgdm> Sometimes I feel like my brain is hosted in the cloud
<mgdm> today is one of those days
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: cloud #9?
<mgdm> maybe #Ï
<HazRPG> 3.142 anyone?
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: http://tauday.com/
<mgdm> interesting
<MartijnVdS> Time for some Talk Talk (It's My Life)
<OmNomSequitur> MartijnVdS: time to hop back into your De Lorean.
<OmNomSequitur> I'm pretty sure Shuttleworth drives cheetah to work.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomSequitur: I prefer the TARDIS ;)
<MartijnVdS> though the delorean is a nice piece of work :)
<OmNomSequitur> You mean the Re-TARDIS.
<OmNomSequitur> Dr Who sucks.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomSequitur: Some parts of it are nice (to look at at least)
<OmNomSequitur> You just fancy the doctor and/or the assistants.
<Baikonur> I like how Steven Moffat writes
<OmNomSequitur> Who?
 * OmNomSequitur np: 4Hero Feat. Carina Andersson - Les Fleur [from The Big Chill Classics [Disc 1]]
<MartijnVdS> OmNomSequitur: the guy who also wrote Coupling
<OmNomSequitur> Oh.
<MartijnVdS> and the new 1.5 hour-long Sherlock episodes
<OmNomSequitur> Coupling was ok.
<OmNomSequitur> Two Pints was like, if Coupling was produced by monkeys.
<OmNomSequitur> I can't think of a great live-action comedy from the 2000s.
<OmNomSequitur> The best stuff was satire or animated like Monkey Dust.
<MartijnVdS> does qi count? :)
<OmNomSequitur> That's a comedy panel quiz.
<MartijnVdS> it's live-action, and it's comedy
<OmNomSequitur> Some QI episodes are hilarious.
<OmNomSequitur> Like the one with Karl Benz.
<OmNomSequitur> "I WILL ISSUE YOU WITH A LICENCE"
<OmNomSequitur> I saw the one with the Galapagos turtles yesterday.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomSequitur: that one is also amazing :)
<OmNomSequitur> Remember that Rory guy?
<OmNomSequitur> The one from A Question of Sport.
<OmNomSequitur> He was an annoying twat.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomSequitur: That Mitchell and Webb Look -- from the '00s and funny :)
<OmNomSequitur> I never saw that.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomSequitur: find it :)
<MartijnVdS> + watch it
<OmNomSequitur> Ah, what am I saying?
<OmNomSequitur> I totally forgot about a ton of shows.
<OmNomSequitur> http://www.comedy.co.uk/forums/thread/16250#P572199
<OmNomSequitur> Peep Show is amazing.
<MartijnVdS> peep show is AWKWARD
<MartijnVdS> it's pure, distilled AWKWARD
<OmNomSequitur> Extras was also very good.
<OmNomSequitur> Summer Heighs High was rofl-inducing.
<OmNomSequitur> But that was an Aussie production IIRC.
<MartijnVdS> Aussies can be funny. Proof: latest Top Gear ;)
<MartijnVdS> ("I'm sorry dave, I can't let you have that nickname")
<MartijnVdS> (</nickserv>)
<HazRPG> Win! "The Lost Army" - I got oriental crackers in my graze today :D
<HazRPG> (just opened his box)
<HazRPG> really love this stuff :D
 * HazRPG should buy a whole bag of them from the Chinese shop in town
<popey> gord: when will nvidia on natty work again?
<popey> ali1234: current is generated every 10 mins
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<popey> hi
<HazRPG> \o
<pr0ph3t> sorry about before
<pr0ph3t> unexpected domestic issues
<HazRPG> popey: Sorry about yesterday dude, shouldn't have made the assumptions that I did.
<popey> worries :D
<pr0ph3t> do you still have time to look at the lsmod output popey?
<popey> pr0ph3t: sort out that asus-laptop module?
<popey> pr0ph3t: sure, what happens if you run this:-
<pr0ph3t> well I just logged back
<popey> sudo modprobe asus-laptop
<popey> lsmod
<pr0ph3t> popey, this happens : http://pastebin.com/epQ6MW6Q
<kazade> hmm, my minecraft has decided to break :( - system stopped responding so I killed it, now it won't log in!
<Neoti> Hi People... i have set up some vlans on my network for testing, i can tell my phones to sit on the vlan, how do i tell my ubuntu pc to only use Vlan 2 as it currently uses vlan 1 etc ...
<popey> kazade: check for java processes running
 * popey tickles MooDoo 
<gord> popey, people keep saying that nvidia doesn't work for them on natty, i updated on monday and it works fine for me
<HazRPG> popey: was the "worries :D" aimed towards pr0ph3t or both of us?
<popey> gord: it tries to remove all of x here
<gord> popey, apart from that i have no idea, xorg updates always screw up the nvidia drivers
<popey> hehe HazRPG everyone
<HazRPG> :)
<popey> was supposed to be "no worries" of course
<HazRPG> ;) of course
<pr0ph3t> is it normal that says asus_laptop as opposed to asus-laptop?
<popey> pr0ph3t: thats fine
<popey> pr0ph3t: the module is loaded, nothing to worry about
<pr0ph3t> but is it the old module?
<pr0ph3t> I need to remove that one and load the one I just made
<popey> ahh
<popey> thats different then
<popey> sudo rmmod asus_laptop
<popey> will attempt to unload the module
<popey> however if you have compiled a new one and put it in the right place then it will get loaded
<popey> what guide are you following?
<popey> what is your goal by compiling this module?
<pr0ph3t> popey, http://dev.iksaif.net/projects/acpi4asus/wiki/Backport_module
<gord> using my sd card as a swap partition, this could be a great idea or a terrible idea =/
<pr0ph3t> sd card stop working after a number of read/write correct?
<popey> pr0ph3t: whats the goal here?
<pr0ph3t> popey, http://dev.iksaif.net/issues/108
<pr0ph3t> gord, that's why you should never install a journaled filesystem on an sd card, same might apply for swap?
<pr0ph3t> popey, the anon it's me
<pr0ph3t> popey, Dan has the same hardware as me and seems to be able to make it work
<pr0ph3t> but I can't so Coriantin suggested I should try one of the backports
<pr0ph3t> gord, don't take my word for it though, you should look it up
<pr0ph3t> popey, what do you reckon then? Maybe I got the wrong source file, maybe it is for a newer kernel?
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
<popey> pr0ph3t: sorry, my connection went funny then
<DJones> Didn't that used to reply about the diodes down the left side...
<popey> !ping
<lubotu3> ping-pong, a fun game for all the family
<popey> :(
<popey> boring
<popey> E: Failed getting release file http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/natty/Release
 * popey blames jpds 
<DJones> I wonder does !random still work
<DJones> !random Yes No
<pr0ph3t> is natty still alpha 1?
<OmNomSequitur> It is in my house.
<popey> a2 this week
<pr0ph3t> popey, did you get the links I sent you?
<popey> yes
<popey> what version of ubuntu you on?
<popey> 10.10?
<pr0ph3t> popey, yes 10.10
<pr0ph3t> insmod worked now
<bigcalm_> Who broke minecraft.net ?
<popey> bigcalm: the whole internet is
<popey> something is very wrong
<bigcalm> popey: shall we blame VM?
<popey> no
<bigcalm> Aww
<popey> i can see others not on vm with similar issues
<popey> 20:50:56 <@grifferz> interesting, my (tunnelled) IPv6 is about 200ms less latent than my native IPv4 at the moment
<MartijnVdS> it's the government sniffers
<MartijnVdS> they don't do v6 yet
<tugrik> ah, is the Internet playing up?
<bigcalm> Heh
<tugrik> my irc lag seemed a bit spiky, but apart from that hadn't noticed anything too weird...
<bigcalm> popey: have you poked VM about ipv6? Or aren't you bothered?
<popey> not bothered
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/561604/
<jpds> MartijnVdS: No, they probably have for quite a while.
<popey> oi jpds !
<popey> fix my internets
<bigcalm> The friend who worked for VM and got us mates rates recently finished (made redundant). I wonder how long before they come after us for more money
<jpds> popey: https://www.linx.net/pubtools/trafficstats.html
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> A major drop off
<jpds> Nought wrong with doing an Egypt.
<popey>  /124
<popey> bah
<MartijnVdS> jpds: that would make v6 just as slow ;)
<Azelphur> It's probably egypt coming back online actually
<Azelphur> maybe some teething problems surrounding that
<Azelphur> they are due back on today, so wouldn't be surprised
<jpds> Azelphur: That was ages ago.
<Azelphur> oh :P
<pr0ph3t> re all
<pr0ph3t> I'm sad now, everything works and I don't know what to do
<jpds> Rejoice?
<pr0ph3t> I did
 * popey tickles kazade 
<popey> wassup?
<kazade> I'm having MC issues :(
<kazade> on my desktop I can't get past the login screen (despite removing .minecraft)...
<kazade> and now on my laptop, I get a 503 connecting to your server!
<bigcalm> kazade: I saw you login and straight out again
<popey> probably because minecraft.net is unreachable
<popey> yes, the server tries to get to mc.net
<popey> to validate you
<kazade> ah I see
<popey> if you're already connected you're okay
<kazade> ...
<kazade> so I've gotta go cold turkey?!
<kazade> I'm going to go arrange some cushions into a farm
<czajkowski> evening
<DJones> hi czajkowski
<czajkowski> hows folks?
<DJones> not too bad, although i think most people are in the pub after the expo
<DJones> hoes things with you
<DJones> s/hoes/hows
<czajkowski> ah grand
<czajkowski> mad busy day
<czajkowski> heard the expo wasnt great
<czajkowski> not a lot of stalls
<czajkowski> and mostly cloud
<czajkowski> on the plus side had my review at work
<czajkowski> they seemingly like the work I am doing so am now al permanent
<DJones> I guess it went well
<DJones> Does that mean you have to change nationality?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> ;)
<DJones> Heh
<terran> czajkowski and I are now pure-blooded British
<DJones> terran: Thats more than I claim to be and I was born here :)
<popey> :)
<popey> Congratulations czajkowski !
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<terran> We're getting a day off work for Prince William's wedding - there's no going back to being Irish after that
<czajkowski> it's been a long day :)
<czajkowski> terran: I know I find that soo odd :)
<czajkowski> but if you take 3 days leave you get off for 9 days or something
<terran> yeah cos of Easter
<DJones> czajkowski: I assume davmor2 wasn't on the review committe then
<czajkowski> off he loves me really
<czajkowski> deep deep down
<czajkowski> terran: aye
<DJones> And as he's not in the channel, you can speak your mind
<czajkowski> mixed emotion today though hence my blog post
<czajkowski> miss my loco :(
<Moecat> why use linux when i can pay Â£250 for windows 7, its shiny
<terran> It's more like Â£80
<terran> and why not use both
<terran> they both have their purposes
<Moecat> not for the super shiny version
 * terran dual boots Win 7 and ubuntu
<terran> I guess that scared him off
 * DJones smells a troll
<terran> he was hoping for some kind of vehement anti-MS response
<DJones> Guess so, I wonder how long it'll take for people to realise that the linux/open source community aren't Anti-MS, just happen to use a different system
<terran> another few years
<DJones> People should use whatever works for them
<czajkowski> ndeed
<czajkowski> indeed
<OmNomSequitur> Minorities often shout the loudest.
<OmNomSequitur> Far more Linux people are anti-MS than MS people are anti-Linux, both in absolute and percentage terms.
<OmNomSequitur> Same goes for Mac vs PC.
<OmNomSequitur> PC users couldn't care less most of the time. Mac fans see their hardware as part of a lifestyle choice.
<terran> OSX is nice too
<popey> grrrrrrr
<popey> generalisation fail again
<OmNomSequitur> Of course it's nice.
<OmNomSequitur> It's a shame you can't do much useful with it.
<OmNomSequitur> You can't virtualise OSX on ESXi, for instance.
<DJones> OmNomSequitur: At the end of the day, whatever the hardware/OS, if it works for you, Its right for you
<OmNomSequitur> Not unless you install ESXi on a Mac lol.
<OmNomSequitur> DJones, we all accept that.
<OmNomSequitur> It's like a screwdriver kit.
<OmNomSequitur> You have the big philips head you use for most things.
<OmNomSequitur> And the tiny torx and hex ones for special jobs.
<OmNomSequitur> It's the same with OSes, really.
<czajkowski> uds is back in orland in october again
<directhex> really? typical. i'm in orlando in may
<czajkowski> in May tis Budapest
<jpds> I looked at Hungranian vocabulary, not pretty.
<Baikonur> hungarian words don't have anything to do with any other language
<Baikonur> the gramma is somewhat related to finnish
<Baikonur> *grammar
<jpds> Not being Indo-European helps.
<OmNomSequitur> Yes, apparently Hungarian is almost unique in Europe.
<OmNomSequitur> Stephen Fry is part-Hungarian.
<Baikonur> the basque language the only language isolate that is still spoken in europe
<pr0ph3t> re all
<pr0ph3t> how can I set the sound level at say 50% on startup, from GDM through to gnome startup, independently of how loud it was when I logged off/switched off
<pr0ph3t> on Ubuntu 10.10
<hamitron> o/
<popey> yo hamitron !
 * bigcalm has his head in the clouds :)
<hamitron> hi :)
<hamitron> I been too busy to get online :/
<hamitron> is it all still in 1 piece?
<popey> of course :)
<popey> we now have two pyramids
<popey> yours and one upside down :)
<hamitron> :-D
<hamitron> inside or outside?
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraftmap/
<bigcalm> popey: map needs an update :P
<popey> it will do it in 5 mins
<popey> every 10 it updates
<popey> iirc
<popey> oh, no
<popey> once an hour at 15 mins past
<popey> so its running now :)
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> And the google map?
<gord> how is the sand not falling on the upside down one?
<bigcalm> It's sandstone
<popey> gmap updates at 7am or when i trigger it
<popey> doing that now
<popey> then it has to rsync the changed blocks up to my server
<popey> which can take a little while
<hamitron> I may make a train station near the pyrimid
<popey> that would rock
<hamitron> with some underground entrance to it
<hamitron> pyrimids don't have doors :/
<bigcalm> Ours do ;)
<hamitron> it won't!
<hamitron> damn it
<hamitron> has any lighting been installed?
<hamitron> I can't find the upside down one either
<bigcalm> Aha, there's the tower
<czajkowski> http://bit.ly/eYfLgn  interesting
<bigcalm> popey: the google map seems to be darker for some reason
<buzz__> channel of addicts ;-)
<popey> it uses the lighting from the map
<bigcalm> Ok
<popey> the other one doesnt
<popey> i could render it night mode if you want it really dark :)
<bigcalm> Might look nice, but not very useful sadly
<popey> its rsyncing up now
<popey> since you're a web designer, when you're not busy building pyramids, can you make me a static page that details the server info? when the maps get built etc
<popey> @bigcalm :)
<bigcalm> Developer, not designer :P
<popey> there is a difference? :)
<popey> </ignorance>
<bigcalm> Give me a spec and I'll make something
<hamitron> both play with pretty images?
<hamitron> ;/
<bigcalm> A developer makes designs come to life
<bigcalm> I can't make things look that pretty, but I can make them work
<hamitron> so designer paints the pretty images, and you put them on the page?
<bigcalm> To an extent
<hamitron> or the designer steals the art work ;)
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> popey: I'd be happy to do a site. But you'll need to come up with a spec for what you want it to do
<hamitron> anyone here getting TDU2?
<popey> ok
<popey> gmap has uploaded
<bigcalm> The inverted pyramid is still incomplete
<popey> zoom all the way in
<popey> it seems to cache quite a bit
<popey> shows complete here, had to CTRLF5
<bigcalm> Aha
<bigcalm> Sleep time!
<popey> yes!
<popey> I just pulled a chicken out of the oven
<popey> I so want to eat it right now!
<bigcalm> Mmmmmmmm, bok bok
<bigcalm> Good night peeps
<AlanBell> did someone say chicken?
<AlanBell> evening all
<popey> what ho
<bigcalm> That ho over there
 * bigcalm sleeps
 * AlanBell drinks water
<popey> haha
<popey> good free beer?
<AlanBell> yes, and the paid for ones were good too
<AlanBell> and the one with the curry was nice
<danfish> the curry was nice as well :)
<danfish> and now to bed
<AlanBell> it was, goodnight danfish o/
<danfish> o/
<andylockran> yeah!!!!
<andylockran> we won
<andylockran> Bees 25, Rotherham 24,
<andylockran> czajkowski: will you like that?1?!?!?
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-03
<andylockran> yea!!
<andylockran> night! xx
<HazRPG> popey: :o, wow!
<popey> ?
<HazRPG> just seen you gmap!
<popey> :0
<HazRPG> That is epic :P
<popey> fun :)
<HazRPG> Been meaning to mess around with the gmap API's for a while, how'd ya do it?
<popey> i didnt, its someone elses code
<HazRPG> popey: Nice :P
 * HazRPG tries to work out where he can build stuff...
<HazRPG> do the islands form themselves over time?
<HazRPG> or are they hand created (sorta speak)
<popey> as you walk towards the end of the world it generates more world
<HazRPG> nice
<HazRPG> Q) How do you use the train?
 * HazRPG thinks he's found a spot he can set up camp
<popey> nn
<HazRPG> ?
<HazRPG> popey: As in you nn, or do you mean "Night Night"? lol
<HazRPG> Woo! Haz has set up shop in popey land. :)
<HazRPG> And I can now stay in my hut and do things instead of logging out when it gets dark xD
<Paladine> ?
<HazRPG> Oh, minecraft lol.
<Paladine> hehe
<HazRPG> do you play it?
<Paladine> play? haha i wish I had time to play
<Paladine> i wouldn't still be up at 5am working if I had time to play :)
<HazRPG> heh, makes sense I guess
<Paladine> tonight I have ben mostly spending money i can't afford to spend hehe
<HazRPG> what is it you do?
<HazRPG> heh, I've been playing minecraft, when I should be working on a website :P
<Paladine> I am a privacy lobbyist/advocate/consultant/public speaker
<MartijnVdS> morning everyone
<HazRPG> ah
<Paladine> and just paid out the first installment for my masters :/
<MartijnVdS> you're up early/late ;)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :) \o hola
<HazRPG> Paladine: nice
<HazRPG> oh... not so nice
<HazRPG> (I was saying nice to the job title)
<Paladine> keeps me very busy
<HazRPG> I can imagine
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: argh... how do I find more clay >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: No idea.. next to the river?
<Paladine> oo I forgot I had a beer next to me :)
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: one would assume so right :/
<HazRPG> but I can't find any
<HazRPG> Paladine: winner :)
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: have you tried the minecraft wiki for hints?
<Paladine> yeah cept I should maybe be concerned that I am drinking beer at 5:30am lol
<Paladine> although I opened it like 1:30am
<HazRPG> have several tabs open about various things xD
<Paladine> so i guess it is ok
<HazRPG> exactly :P
<shauno> wow.  that game's a bit of a timesink.  just looked up to see if it's midnight yet.  err..
<HazRPG> yeah its pitch black at the moment in popey's server
<HazRPG> I'm hiding in my hut so that I don't get killed
<shauno> I tried that, but the green dudes got me anyway.  so I've just wasted the last "couple of" hours on an all-out war against creepers :/
<HazRPG> wait, you in popey's server now too?
<shauno> nah, just single-player
<MartijnVdS> aka "playing with youtself"
<MartijnVdS> *r
<HazRPG> ;p
<shauno> heh
<shauno> chasing creepers is quite fun tho.  they drop gunpowder, which turns out to be quiet useful for accidentally destroying hours of work
<HazRPG> damn... zombies blew off some of my house somehow!
<shauno> that's the ones
<HazRPG> now I really need some clay >_<
<shauno> the green ones that look like worms with feet.  they hide, survive sunlight, and like to sneak up on you and explode.
<HazRPG> so I can build my house out of brick - and not wood
<HazRPG> some of it is brick so far... just need more clay
<HazRPG> shauno: heh, yeah I noticed
 * ball is confused.
<MartijnVdS> ball: why? :)
<ball> MartijnVdS: I think it has become my natural state of being.
<MartijnVdS> ball: Land of Opportunity getting to you? :)
<ball> Heh. ...land of Snowpertunity.
<ball> I spent most of this morning digging the cars out.
<ball> ...and the footpath.  Need to widen the entrance to the driveway too.
<ball> I'll work on that in the morning, perhaps.
<Paladine> you moved to US ball?
 * ball nods
<ball> It seemed like a good idea at the time.
<Paladine> what on earth possessed you to do that?
<Paladine> where abouts are you?
<Paladine> where abouts are you ball?
<ball_> Illinois.
<MartijnVdS> ball: run more CPU-intensive tasks
<Paladine> oh well it could be worse, you could be working for google ;)
<MartijnVdS> ball: melt yourself out :)
<HazRPG> ^^,
<HazRPG> Paladine: What would be wrong with working for google? Good pay from what I hear, and awesome benefits.
<Paladine> haha
<Paladine> if you knew me you would understand why i found that funny :)
<HazRPG> fair enough :P
<MartijnVdS> Paladine: you applied and they didn't hire you?
<HazRPG> shauno: there's not enough "day time" in this game :/
<Paladine> no, I don't apply for jobs, I turned them down
<Paladine> 2x
<HazRPG> seriously? You turned down a job a google?
<Paladine> yes, 2
<HazRPG> Surely if they wanted you, then they clearly thought you were bright enough to be there - they only hire the smartest of the crop.
<Paladine> but I didn't want to work for them
<HazRPG> why not, if you don't mind me asking?
<Paladine> I have filed multiple legal complaints against Google, for me to take a job off them would be rank hypocrisy
<HazRPG> ah
<Paladine> I work in privacy - Goole + Privacy don't mix lol
<Paladine> Google
<HazRPG> true
<HazRPG> I should probably put torches around my house :/
<Paladine> I have friends who work for them though
<Paladine> and i meet Google peeps frequently
<Paladine> in fact we did a google tech talk in mountain view just a couple of months ago
<Paladine> although it was my directors not me
<HazRPG> random
<shauno> HazRPG: I went a little overboard, but I solved my creeper problem :)  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23042/2011-02-03_05.51.03.png
<Paladine> tech talks are like Google internal mini conferences for staff
<HazRPG> shauno: haha nice :P
<ball> Sorry about that. I fell off the Internet.
<Paladine> actually just last week i was in brussels speaking at a conference and Google's new policy person in Brussels gave me her card - i was like "Don't tell anyone you gave me this, you will get fired..." lol
<MartijnVdS> ball: time to dig out the telephone wires
<ball> MartijnVdS: Not much point, I'm having the service disconnected tonight
<Paladine> so ball what you doing out there in illinois then?
<ball> Hmm, -13C now, -23C forecast low for tonight
<ball> Paladine: I live here.
<MartijnVdS> they have C over there?
<Paladine> yeah but what work you doing there?
<ball> MartijnVdS: Not by default, but if you work in science or do anything global...
<MartijnVdS> ball: .. or are sane ;)
<ball> Paladine: Nothing interesting, sadly.
<ball> MartijnVdS: Exactly ;-)
<ball> http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClick.php?CityName=Bradley&state=IL&site=LOT&lat=41.1472&lon=-87.8557&unit=1
<MartijnVdS> ball: last time I was in the US I was surprised at the number of things that have liters on them
<Paladine> I was supposed to be in Cali on 12-15th of this month, but we cancelled
<MartijnVdS> Paladine: you didn't want to be frisked by US security?
<Paladine> no the conference were being cheap about travel/hotel
<Paladine> they wanted one of our directors but too busy so i was gonna go instead
<Paladine> still, kinda glad, i have too many trips coming up as it is without flying out to cali and back
<Paladine> still recovering from Brazil in december
<Paladine> 5 trips coming up between now and mid march
<HazRPG> shauno: I wish that stupid spider would leave the entrance to my house :/
<HazRPG> managed to put some torches outside of it though - so its not that bad, just a pain cos they stand next to the trees nearby when it gets light
<shauno> spiders are docile in sunlight
<HazRPG> how'd ya mean?
<shauno> they don't attack during the day (unless you attack first).  it's just at night that they get the munchies
<HazRPG> oh, that'll make so much more sense xD
<HazRPG> make it light again :/
<HazRPG> shauno: do you use glass at all in your buildings? Or do you find them being randomly destroyed?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Community Leadership Summit 2011 Announced! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2011/02/03/community-leadership-summit-2011-announced/
<shauno> I use a lot of glass.  it's pretty fragile, so don't use it anywhere you expect the green dudes to explode
<shauno> but I've been digging a large mining shaft straight down, so a glass roof makes lighting it much easier  (during the day ..)
<shauno> (altho since I discovered TNT, the 'shaft' is more of chasm :D)
<HazRPG> haha
<HazRPG> hmm, any idea how far down you can dig, before you hit water?
<shauno> I didn't hit water :)  there is unbreakable rock a good ways down tho
<HazRPG> argh!
<HazRPG> damn exploding green zombie things!
<AlanBell> morning all
<MartijnVdS> morning AlanBell
<AlanBell> o/ Paladine
<Paladine> yo
<HazRPG> AlanBell: Mornin \o
<Paladine> hows things AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> not bad, customer meeting this morning then back to the cloud expo at the barbican
<AlanBell> then on to a swanky reception at the design museum
<AlanBell> how are things in the privacy world?
<Paladine> there was a good panel on the cloud at CPDP conf in brussels last week
<Paladine> keeping me busy as usual :)
<Paladine> AlanBell,  just launched our new site on thursday so have new blog :) https://www.privacyinternational.org/blogs/alex
<screen-x> morning :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> \o/
<screen-x> That's one way to start the day TheOpenSourcerer :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Been up for 1 1/2hrs already - just about to go and: Get cash, smokes, then some rather tortuous train and tram journeys organised and car parked.
<screen-x> where are you off to?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Mitcham, the central london.
<TheOpenSourcerer> And I need a poo.
<screen-x> heh
<TheOpenSourcerer> ttfn.
<livingdaylight> morning
<screen-x> \o livingdaylight
<daubers> ~Morning
<screen-x> user not found
<daubers> :(
<screen-x> its ok, daubers, you do exist really.
<daubers> Hooray!
<daubers> Need to go to the office and examine a new chassis, see if it'll do for a new product, then head to the open source expo
<screen-x> How was your trip to the BBC?
<daubers> Very productive
<screen-x> Good good, got a potential contract with them?
<daubers> Got a very busy month now building them what they want
<screen-x> :)
<daubers> So looking forward to a weekend away before things get beyond manic
<screen-x> Cool, hopefully we'll see you on Sunday :)
<daubers> \o/
<HazRPG> ...minecraft is a bad game (addictive-wise) T_T, think its bed time now... morning/nite all
 * HazRPG waves
<screen-x> wow, if you haven't been to bed yet, its definitely bed time!
 * screen-x is on tomorrow
<livingdaylight> guys: sorry to ask a technical question so early in the morning: I have this recurring/persistent/annoying issue with Ubuntu on shutdown/reboot.
<livingdaylight> everytime I go to reboot or shutdown I get a dialog informing that a Program is still running... I can't identify the program?  I get it even if I've just had a clean reboot and not used any applications yet
<livingdaylight> It says: A program is still running: Unknown Not responding - Waiting for the program to finish. Interrupting the program may cause you to lose work.
<livingdaylight> Here is output to ps auxww : http://pastebin.com/fK7zmt5c
<screen-x> livingdaylight: gord suggested that is to do with compiz
<livingdaylight> I've got htop running but don't know how to identify the culprit
<livingdaylight> screen-x, yes, I remember. I re-installed all compiz in synaptic, but problem persists
<livingdaylight> what is the fix?
<screen-x> (2011-02-03 07:54:47) livingdaylight: It says: A program is still running: Unknown Not responding - Waiting for the program to finish. Interrupting the program may cause you to lose work.  <-- is that the exact text of the error message?
<livingdaylight> yes
<livingdaylight> screen-x, http://img193.imageshack.us/i/screenshot1sz.png/ my desktop with said error dialog
<livingdaylight> thank you
<screen-x> bug 455238
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 455238 in tangerine (Ubuntu) "Tangerine blocks session log out" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/455238
<livingdaylight> screen-x, thank you
 * livingdaylight goes to uninstall tangerine
<livingdaylight> it still does it!
<screen-x> I couldn't find a bug related to compiz and logout, but there must be one..
<screen-x> poke around launchpad..
<livingdaylight> having removed tangerine, would I need to reboot for changes to take full effect?
<livingdaylight> (maybe/hopefully)
<screen-x> livingdaylight: you may need to kill it.
<screen-x> uninstalling a package doesn't necessarily kill it's processes.
<livingdaylight> i'd happily murder it; how?
<screen-x> "pkill tangerine" should do it
<screen-x> or pkill -9 tangerine if that doesn't work.
<screen-x> haha
 * screen-x wonders what he killed
<screen-x> (she/it)
<livingdaylight> screen-x, thank you... All is well again :)
<screen-x> livingdaylight: great :) what was the issue in the end?
<livingdaylight> tangerine... and it's processes just needed killing off after the removal
<livingdaylight> Anyone use AdobeAir? every other day it pops up with an update - amazing
<screen-x> livingdaylight: maybe you should comment on that bug incase it isn't obvious to other people.
<livingdaylight> that a further killing off of tangerine processes is required after removal?
<screen-x> yep
<livingdaylight> ok
<czajkowski> morning all
<livingdaylight> done
<livingdaylight> czajkowski, haro!
<screen-x> morning czajkowski :)
<DJones> Morning all
<MooDoo> hello all
<livingdaylight> hello DJones  | MooDoo
<screen-x> is MooDoo a filter?
<DJones> Hang on, Have I been piped into MooDoo ?
 * screen-x decides not to ask what DJones stdout is..
 * MooDoo shudders
 * DJones judders
<kazade> morning
<kazade> popey, I assume the new MC tower is your handywork? :)
<drt494245> Hello, my friend and i want to play chess over the internet, is there any software available?
<MooDoo> drt494245: freechess.org?
<screen-x> drt494245: you could play irc chess :) http://irc-chess.sourceforge.net/
<drt494245> ok
<wintellect> Mornin all
<MooDoo> wintellect: morning
<JamesTait> Gooooooooooooood morning #ubuntu-uk!
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I'm more worried about his stderr
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: haha
<DJones> MartijnVdS: Its not showing is it
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: but its ok because stderr wasn't redirected.
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: 2>&1
 * dwatkins is really beginning to dislike Samba and LDAP
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: 't is the path to enlightenment
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: I wish it were, it's just making my blood boil at the moment, and all I'm trying to do is join a domain :'(
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: net join foo?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: yeah, tried that, no joy
<dwatkins> The error implies there's a duplicate name on the network, but there ain't.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: maybe it thinks some machine with your machine's name is already in the domain
<dwatkins> yeah, I'm changing the name and trying again, MartijnVdS
<screen-x> \o/ deed-poll to fix samba problem
 * dwatkins grins
<popey> kazade: me and bigcalm
<dwatkins> I just wish Samba was as easy to use as any old winders machine, and yes I know what I'm saying.... ;)
<popey> kazade: I went to the top of yours and put some stuff there to make a glass walkway
<kazade> glass...
<kazade> oops
<kazade> I started on a wood one!
<kazade> :(
<kazade> hmm, I'll put glass either side of the wood, we can always replace it later :)
<popey> nvm :)
<kazade> it's hard building outwards
<kazade> I've died so many times falling off
<popey> hold shift when you walk, you wont fall off
<kazade> oh!
<kazade> do you know where I can find some lava?
<screen-x> What are the grey columns in the forests?
<screen-x> oh, I think they're just a different type of tree.
<gord> i think at this point we need to rename the channel to #minecraft-uk
<dwatkins> I was just thinking the same, gord ;)
<popey> kazade: there's a hot tap
<popey> there is #ubuntu-uk-minecraft :)
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<popey> pip pip
<screen-x> hooray!
<nigelb> pip: error: No command by the name pip pip
<nigelb> ;)
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: CP/M
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_Interchange_Program
<screen-x> The program 'pip' can be found in the following packages:  * pip * python-pip
<kazade> popey, you can't harvest running lava
<kazade> I tried :(
<dwatkins> Sounds painful.
<kazade> hmm, looking at the map there is some above ground in the snow area
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: Ah.
<MartijnVdS> reminds me
<MartijnVdS> I need to poke my dad to set up his old CP/M machine :)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: that won't run minecraft ;-)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertec_Superbrain
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: but it IS cool
<nigelb> I agree with the cool bit
<screen-x> its a dual-core iMac :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: from 1979
<popey> kazade: oh yeah
<s-fox> Hello.
<nigelb> hello s-fox
<nigelb> You've shortened your nick name
<s-fox> Hello nigelb
<s-fox> It is for consistency
<nigelb> I belive folks will find this entertaining. http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2011/02/03/bnp-relocates-to-india-in-bid-to-cut-costs/
<MooDoo> nigelb: i almost believed it then :)
<nigelb> MooDoo: hehe
<MooDoo> nigelb: and it wasn't the site that made me curious it was the photo, it looked photoshopped :)
<DJones> Thats quite entertaining
<Mez> What a horrid thought.  I've now been at my job for two years
<MooDoo> Mez: ?
<dwatkins> Mez: I was in my last job for 9 years.
<Mez> I'm not too sure what you're asking there.
<MooDoo> sorry might have come in halfway through a conversation :)
<Mez> dwatkins: It's more of a point of today is my anniversary here..
<MooDoo> Mez: congrats :)
<dwatkins> gz, Mez :)
<MooDoo> Mez: oct 1st is my 5 year one :)
 * Mez reflects back over what he's done in the 2 years he's been here.
 * DJones has been in his job for 2 months
 * MooDoo wants a new one :)
<screen-x> \o/ xdg-open
 * screen-x should have know about that before..
<kazade> MC is very buggy :/
<kazade> half of my bridge has "vanished" so I threw some stone onto where it should be, now I'm watching that stone repeatedly fall, then reappear in front of me, then fall... etc.
<Laney> yeah that happens :(
<Laney> usually fixed by disconnecting and reconnecting
<popey> exit, reconnect
<kazade> yeah, that worked
<popey> you get gaping holes in the map
<kazade> I've also noticed that sometimes an entire side of that tower disappears
<popey> yeah, you're on a border between chunks
<popey> how do you start the client?
<popey> and how much ram do you have? :)
<rickogden> hi all, I'm getting a weird problem
<kazade> double-click the jar and um, probs about 2G
<popey> heh
<gord> its a long standing multiplayer bug now
<popey> java -jar -Xmx2048M -Xms2048M -jar foo.jar
<rickogden> I have a file, I ls it and it's there (complete with execute permissions), I try to execute it and get the error "no such file or directory". Has anyone come across this? I think the filesystem is broken
<gord> its kind of annoying but nothing you can do apart from restart
<popey> kazade: be nice to have a train track between towers :)
<popey> a monorail! :D
<screen-x> rickogden:  ./ ?
<popey> (in the sky)
<rickogden> screen-x: yes
<gord> rickogden, are you sure the file isn't a script attempting to execute another file that it can't find?
<kazade> good idea ;)
<rickogden> it's a compiled executable
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/current_day.png ooo i see it
<screen-x> rickogden: ldd ?
<popey> kazade: hope ours is a similar level
<kazade> popey, yeah, me too!
<rickogden> screen-x: what do you mean?
<popey> kazade: i counted yours as about 60 blocks high, by counting the windows
<MooDoo> hehe yes that's cool
<kazade> that map is old popey
<kazade> the bridge is now nearer your tower than mine ;)
<Laney> that is one long bridge
<kazade> infact, I can't see my tower, but I can see yours
<popey> heh
<gord> (maybe we shouldn't let minecraft talk get in the way of support) =\
<popey> sorry
<kazade> #mc-ubuntu-uk ?
<screen-x> rickogden: run ldd executable to see if all required libs are there
<kazade> :)
<rickogden> ok will do
<popey> kazade: #ubuntu-uk-minecraft exists
<rickogden> screen-x: comes up with "not a dynamic executable"
<screen-x> so it doesn't need any external libs
<rickogden> nope
<screen-x> could use strace to see what its trying to open.
<rickogden> it runs on another very similar machine absolutely fine
<screen-x> Is there to extract all images from a PDF?
<gord> rickogden, its not adobe air is it? i remember that happening to me with adobe air, never fixed it though
<screen-x> ^a way
<rickogden> nope
<rickogden> it's a small c application
<rickogden> that runs fine on one machine
<rickogden> but on the other it doesn't throw an error it claims it doesn't exist when it's executed
<rickogden> (but it does exist in the filesystem)
<gord> rickogden, can you run "file <filename>"
<rickogden> "launcher: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.2.5, not stripped"
<gord> screen-x, there are bunch of cli tools called pdf2<thing> in the repo's they can convert, not sure about extract though
<rickogden> admittedly it's a 64 bit system, but it runs on the other 64 system fine
<screen-x> dynamically linked ??
<screen-x> weird that file should disagree with ldd
<gord> rickogden, lets make sure you have the 32bit deps installed, to run 32bit applications apt-get install libc6-i386 lib32gcc1 lib32z1 lib32stdc++6 ia32-libs
<rickogden> gord: looks like I don't, installing now
<rickogden> ahah! But the other system does!
<rickogden> gord: I think that's done it, thanks!
<screen-x> :)
<rickogden> thanks gord and screen-x :)
<gord> :)
<popey> yay
<popey> back to minecraft ;)
<screen-x> yay xpdf-utils includes pdfimages, which claimes to be able to extract images from pdfs :)
<rickogden> I have to say though, what a weird error message
<screen-x> yeah. Do find and ldd agree about dynamicness now?
<rickogden> linux-gate.so.1 =>  (0xf7795000)        libc.so.6 => /lib32/libc.so.6 (0xf7617000)      /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0xf7796000)
<screen-x> Good.. so just have to try and rember that when find and ldd disagree it may be a 32/64bit issue.
<rickogden> yeah will do
<rickogden> I still say it's an unhelpful error message (and completely misleading)
<rickogden> I honestly thought it was a corrupt filesystem
<screen-x> pdfimages works brilliantly :)
<dr5t4924> Hi, can someone help me find a command line to play songs in a directory (and subdirs) randomly with mplayer
<dr5t4924> I tried mplayer -shuffle $(find .)  , but then mplayer intereprets every word as a song, not line
<screen-x> dr5t4924: find . -print0 possibly?
<czajkowski> popey: I think you've a new addiction problem
<MooDoo> czajkowski: +1
<MooDoo> :)
<screen-x> czajkowski: what was the previous one?
<czajkowski> have you seen his coffee runs twitpics :)
<screen-x> ah yes
<czajkowski> all that coffee he says it s for co workers I don't beleive it
<screen-x> haha
<MooDoo> hi i'm moodoo and i'm addicted to coffee and minecraft :)
<screen-x> #ubuntu-uk-minecraft-addicts-anonymous
<MooDoo> screen-x: damn you......:) i had to go look :)
<czajkowski> oh a MooDoo
<screen-x> MooDoo: haha, maybe you should start it ;-)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: bonjour my sweet :) beat a davmor2 yet?
<MooDoo> screen-x: go look :)
<MooDoo> lol
<czajkowski> nope not left Aldershot yet
<czajkowski> gonna head up about lunch time
<dr5t4924> screen-x: nein, but i got it now thnx
<MooDoo> czajkowski: give him a punch for me will ya :)
<czajkowski> eh no
<screen-x> dr5t4924: what was the solution? I'm always getting stuck with quoting issues..
<czajkowski> less of the violence please
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i did only mean a playful hello how are you type.....ok ok a hug then
<screen-x> MooDoo: if that's how you great friends...
<screen-x> *greet
<dr5t4924> screen-x: i got two in #mplayer
<MooDoo> screen-x: i don't have friends
<dr5t4924> screen-x: zsh -c 'mplayer -shuffle ./**/*'
<dr5t4924> screen-x: and find . > playerlist.list ; mplayer -playlist playerlist.list
<screen-x> dr5t4924: I forget that ** exists. It works in bash after shopt -s globstar
<dr5t4924> screen-x: thnx, and how do i turn off globstar btw?
<screen-x> dr5t4924: -u for "unset"
<czajkowski> http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/615/detail/  oh we now have more people signed up but also avatars beside names
<s-fox> Ohh, pub and rugby =)
<terran> czajkowski: will I wear an Irish jersey or would I be attacked for doing so?
 * s-fox might be able to make it, though I am not English or Irish :)
<jpds> London is nowhere near Rugby.
<czajkowski> terran: not at all
 * MooDoo might just wear his harlequins jersey :)
<terran> czajkowski: but what about when we win?
<terran> Can't trust these Ubuntu folk :p
<danfish> a hoy hoy!
<MooDoo> terran: i abuse czajkowski on a daily basis regarding ireland getting trounced, although i do seem to recall promising to buy her a drink if we loose....
<terran> when
<terran> when you lose
<MooDoo> terran: ahem ;)
<MooDoo> is this two beers i'm going to have to buy ;)
<czajkowski> MooDoo: I'm trying to bring some Irish friends along
<terran> I might do the same
<czajkowski> I suggest you behave now or it'll get expensive for you
<MooDoo> czajkowski: awesome :)
<czajkowski> Sorcha and davisc are coming along
<terran> I haven't seen Sorcha since FOSDEM two years ago
<czajkowski> shes started her phd
<terran> oooh
<terran> fancy
<s-fox> Â£17.00 for train tickets =)
<MooDoo> hmm i better sort out train
<czajkowski> terran: aye electronics
<czajkowski> she needs to have a live demo read for LA  in August
<terran> czajkowski: where is she doing it?
<czajkowski> LIT
<s-fox> Mind you, that is one way... /me checks return
<s-fox> Â£37.00 for the round trip.  Blah
<MooDoo> s-fox: 52 for me
<MooDoo> :(
<terran> round trip to London?
<s-fox> To that I add approx Â£40.00 in taxi...
<MooDoo> yes
<terran> A whole Â£15 for me including unlimited underground zones 1-6 travel
<MooDoo> terran: i'm in nottingham
<MooDoo> train then tube....
<terran> freaking love Nottingham
<terran> Ye Olde Trip to Jerusalem is one of my favourite bars of all time
<MooDoo> yay ubuntu-uk field trip to nottingham :)
<MooDoo> terran: next time your up, give us a bell :)  trip and salutation and a few beers :)
<terran> last time I was there I went to Trip followed by Reflex
<terran> the 80s club
<terran> :D
<s-fox> terran, Oh Nottingham isn't so far from here. Maybe 35 miles
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/nottinghamscience :)
 * diplo likes Nottingham bars and ladies as well
<MooDoo> s-fox: where are you?
<diplo> Ye olde was the first place i visited
<MooDoo> i'm sensing a ubuntu night in nottingham is coming up :)
<terran> Can we start the night in Bugman's Bar?
<MartijnVdS> diplo: because it's down the road from the train station? :)
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> i work about 10 mins from the train station and about 5 from the trip :D
<diplo> heh and my hotel
<terran> I got a delicious burger and a really good pint of Guinness in Bugmans Bar
<diplo> Well I'm up for it next time I visit Headoffice
<terran> plus how often do you get to drink in a place with an Orc head mounted on the wall
<MooDoo> lol haven't been to games workshop in ages :D
 * MartijnVdS works about 30 minutes from East Midlands airport (= 30min from Amsterdam airport ;)
 * MooDoo lives 10 miles from notts and just down the road from the castle :)
<MooDoo> nottingham has a great beer festival in oct....you'll all have to come to that :D
<MooDoo> http://www.nottinghamcamra.org/
<MooDoo> :D
<s-fox> MooDoo,  I am currently living halfway between leicester and coventry
<MooDoo> s-fox: ah not that far then
<gord> sometimes, just sometimes. i middle click the "new tab" button in firefox. never feel clever doing that
<shauno> wow.  trees are a lot more flammable than I expected.
<popey> heh
 * popey invites shauno to #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<directhex> are mines more craftable than you expected?
<Daviey> popey, is minecraft good then?
<popey> oh hai Daviey :)
<popey> yes
<directhex> just don't confuse it for a game
<Daviey> it's like crack is it?
<popey> a tiny bit
<MartijnVdS> Minecrack
<Daviey> hmm
<MartijnVdS> \o Daviey btw
<Daviey> popey, Have you lost your job over it yet?
<directhex> it's more like farmville than simcity, tbh
<Daviey> MartijnVdS, o/
<popey> heh, no
 * Daviey ponders if it's worth â¬14.95...
<popey> whatever it is, it's fun, IMO
<MartijnVdS> popey: does it work on intel gfx?
<popey> no idea
<Daviey> it's java isn't it... write once, run anywhere! :)
<popey> write once, debug everywhere
<MartijnVdS> Daviey: sure it'll run.. but will it be 3D-accelerated :)
<Daviey> MartijnVdS, oh - 3D is overated.
<popey> tempted to buy a second copy for the kids
<popey> well, two more copies
<directhex> write once, don't run on dual-monitor setup due to lwjgl bugs
<Daviey> WOW... have you seen how much money he's made from it?
<popey> i would imagine some millions
<popey> given how many people have bought it
<directhex> profit = income - costs
<Daviey> 15 million pounds based on some back of cig packet calcs
<Daviey> and #10K per day
<popey> it was cheaper
<Daviey> and ##0K per day
<popey> its not always been 15EUR
<Daviey> keyboard fail.
<Daviey> ah
<Daviey> still.. he's making a good daily bread.
<directhex> plus, the profits from the game also need to fund development of the next game
<popey> or not
<popey> quit whilst ahead :)
<popey> although he has said they're working on another game
 * Daviey wishes he earned  10K per day.
<popey> i have already bought two copies
<popey> i gave one to a nephew
<Daviey> popey, fancy buying one for me? :)
<directhex> minecraft is an unusually successful game, but it's not all veyrons for notch
<directhex> the industry isn't that simple
<Daviey> popey, check out http://www.minecraft.net/buy_gift_codes.jsp :)
<AlanBell> o/ Daviey
<Daviey> hello AlanBell !
<AlanBell> we got the CDs sorted in the end, I went to Millbank and grovelled
<AlanBell> and the show is pretty dead so we haven't used many
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> heard it's pretty bad there
<AlanBell> one of the bits of swag we have is the official ubuntu book
<AlanBell> we were thinking of using this and maybe some other stuff as a prize in an Ubuntu-UK quiz night
<AlanBell> there is a channel with a quiz bot in isn't there?
<AlanBell> obviously the winner probably doesn't need the book, so it should go to the most ignorant player :)
<dwatkins> There's probably lots of them, AlanBell. I know of one retro-gaming channel where a bot asks questions all day long.
<AlanBell> I think there is a #ubuntu- one
<Daviey> AlanBell, there is
<Daviey> good to hear it's ok
<MonsterKiller> to start something in a screen you do like: screen <screen name> <command you want to run in screen> ?
<Daviey> sad to hear it's quiet
<Daviey> i feared it might be after last time.
<AlanBell> yeah
<AlanBell> more cloud stuff than before
<Daviey> AlanBell, Did you look for the hype 2.0 complaint stickers?
<AlanBell> who has them?
<Daviey> Most companies i thought.....
<DJones> MonsterKiller: I just do "screen" in a terminal, press space when prompted, then whatever the command I need to run is
<Daviey> In cloud news, i assume you heard that Dell are now shipping UEC?
<AlanBell> yes, we saw the press release
<AlanBell> popey: czajkowski: will we see you later?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I'm hopint to head to the font thingy
<czajkowski> once I figure out where it is
<czajkowski> :)
<AlanBell> London Bridge tube
<AlanBell> waterloo then Jubilee line
<czajkowski> did you find your phone
<AlanBell> no
<czajkowski> :(
<AlanBell> they are sending me a new sim and I will find an old handset to use
<AlanBell> until June when I get an upgrade
<AlanBell> but TheOpenSourcerer tells me company policy means I can't get an iPhone 5
<danfish> your conscience means you can't get an iphone 5 ;)
 * MartijnVdS watched the Honeycomb event yesterday
<MartijnVdS> I want that tablet now
<dutchie> market.android.com is scary
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: it's cool
<dutchie> it is cool
 * MartijnVdS tried it earlier
<dutchie> but the lack of requirement to activate and the speed at which downloads start is just terrifying
<dutchie> well, until you think about it
<popey> AlanBell: you "lost" your streak?
<popey> cunning
<popey> I'd probably "lose" mine if I had one
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: this is the way it has always worked
<popey> Interesting thing I heard that the return rate for Samsung Galaxy S was ~16% vs Apple iPad 2% in the USA.
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: (that's why there was a small delay between clicking "install" and install starting)
<MartijnVdS> popey: maybe because apple doesn't accept returns? :P
<popey> hahah
<popey> (they do)
<popey> Steve knows his stuff is perfect, why allow returns?
<gord> yeah i think there is consumer laws about that ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: in the UK, yes
<MartijnVdS> gord: in the US, not so much
<gord> although i don't think comparing return rates of such different products is a valid comparison
<popey> when would it be a valid comparison
<gord> i think people who get an ipad very explicitly wanted "an ipad" thus not likely to return, whereas people who got a galaxy S wanted "a phone" and thus might not live up to their needs
<AlanBell> popey: we have returned a total of three streaks I think
<popey> erk
<AlanBell> out of two
<gord> i think return rates are far too variable for any comparison to be valid, unless it was explicitly "this hardware is broken" return rates
<popey> i haven't returned any apple products, and I have 6
<popey> although I did lose one on the eurostar
<AlanBell> I remember that
<Daviey> I've never lost an andorid based product on a eurostar.
<czajkowski> Daviey: you also never got off on the wrong stop either did you
<Daviey> I have found the apple charger for the laptops to have a few design issues :/
<gord> i can't remember the last product i returned, maybe my kindle, but thats because it broke the week i got it... got it replaced more than returned
<Daviey> czajkowski, I have often got off at the wrong stop :)
<Daviey> Sound on my macbookpro7,1 under natty is less than good at the moment.
 * Daviey blames Steve.
<DaveMorris> http://2011.beercamp.com/
<HazRPG> afternoon all \o#
<MartijnVdS> \o hazman
<gord> popey, y'know how the alt-tab thing is slow... in the ccsm settings for "static application switcher" under behaviour it has a "popup window delay" set to 0.2, setting it back to 0 makes it snappy for me (although seing others with less powerful computers having slow alt tab still)
<popey> well, I'm kinda hosed at the moment, my unity experience has stopped due to no nvidia driver
<Daviey> oh good... i just updated X, removing nvidia-current
<Daviey> this has a bad feeling.
<popey> yes, that
<Daviey> hurray!
<popey> there is no nvidia-current for the latest x
<Daviey> i literally JUST did it.
<popey> dont do that
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: in case you were curious, it turned-out I should have specified the name of the domain in capitals when using the kinit command.
<Laney> always watch what is removed :(
<gord> if only we had the osx time machine
<Daviey> popey,  tooo late... i even had to use dpkg force, as apt wouldn't let me do it :)
<gord> have we not copied that yet?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: of course! you have to shout at windows boxes to make them do what you want them to do ;)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: heh
<Daviey> gord, When is X gonna be good with nvidia?
<popey> if only apt had undo
<Laney> does time machine cover system components?
<gord> Daviey, i have no idea, it works okay for me updated on monday. ask #ubuntu-x
<popey> 11:42:04 < yofel> there is NO nvidia driver yet that works with the new xserver, not even nvidias current beta driver
<Daviey> gord, pah :)
 * Daviey had better not reboot.
 * Laney has been using safe-upgrade for ages, and will be until the huge transition he is working on is finished :'(
<gord> oh great, i suggest you guys get used to that open source driver then...
<Laney> . o O ( when is FF? )
<Daviey> Laney, open a vnc session, and i'll open a browser for you and navigate to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule ..
<Laney> it was in a thought bubble and therefore rhetorical, but thanks for your politeness
<Daviey> Laney, np :)
<bigcalm> These low fat super noodles are a bit pants. Ho hum
<Daviey> bigcalm, Panter than you expected?
 * selinuxium chuckles...
<bigcalm> Daviey: I quite like super noodles. But I don't always have the low fat ones. Now I remember why
<selinuxium> Hi Daviey
<davmor2> czajkowski: when you getting here kiddo?
 * bigcalm pulls a pair of boxershorts from between his teeth
<DJones> bigcalm: Is it possible to use the words "low fat" ini any other context than "a bit pants"
<MooDoo> davmor2: czajkowski i want a photo of you two together with no bruises please :)
<selinuxium> bigcalm, I thought the only difference was that you get less noodles in the diet pack..
<Daviey> bigcalm, :(
<Daviey> selinuxium, o/
<bigcalm> <cough>fewer</cough>
<Daviey> less watts!
<bigcalm> selinuxium: same quantity, odd product though
<popey> tasteless
<popey> watery
<popey> much like all diet food :)
<popey> also, the nouveau driver is rubbish, it flickers every few seconds
<Darael> popey: those two words could describe so much incredibly accurately... not only food, either...
<bigcalm> One could say that the skimmed milk that I have in my tea is "low fat". But I likes that
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: :)
<popey> ooo
<popey> chai o'clock
<HazRPG> I'm hooked on Minecraft now >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: Told you so
<HazRPG> >_<
<HazRPG> I know... >_<
<bigcalm> Hehe
 * Darael makes mental note not to start playing.  It's clearly not a good idea.
<bigcalm> I deleted it as it was getting in the way of work
<HazRPG> now that I've got a hut... its all the more addictive, at first I though "this is crap, I'll never build anything fast enough to protect myself
<HazRPG> "
<bigcalm> HazRPG: If you were really stuck, one could just dig a hole for the 1st night
<HazRPG> bigcalm: is that why you have a place that says "claim this house"?
<bigcalm> HazRPG: I didn't write that sign. I wrote the one next to it
<bigcalm> You're welcome to it if you want it
<HazRPG> bigcalm: didn't realise that until after the first 5 or so deaths
<popey> i wrote the claim sign
<HazRPG> bigcalm: yeah I saw that one too
<popey> didnt know whose it was
<Daviey> popey, I did run my own nouveau driver for a while... but every kernel upgrade was a PITA
<Daviey> i did consider dkms'ing it... then thought... well.. i just hate freedom.
<popey> why do we update x without waiting for a driver from nvidia?
<popey> or is it us updating that prompts them to update?
<Daviey> probably chicken + egg?
<popey> yeah
<popey> wish they'd just open source the damn thing
<HazRPG> ikr :/
<bigcalm> Gah
<bigcalm> Why do some email clients imbed images into emails rather than attach them?
<HazRPG> think it'd be possible to make like a tunnel that goes between two houses underground?
<popey> everyone in offices does that
<popey> printscreen, new mail, paste
<bigcalm> HazRPG: yes
<bigcalm> popey: this came from an applemail client. I blame Steve Jobs for everything
<popey> ok, cmd+shift+3, cmd n for new mail, drag image from desktop :)
<bigcalm> Aha
<dwatkins> cmd+shift+4, space, click for just a window, iirc
<popey> yeah
<popey> most obscure shortcut ever
<popey> also, interesting to note that GNOME Shell ships with a built in screencast app
<dwatkins> It's one thing I'm very surprised at which Macs are very difficult for, screenshots.
<Myrtti> whee, new laptop
<Myrtti> sadly, it comes with Ubuntu 9.10 preinstalled
<AlanBell> could be sadder
<popey> Dell?
<Myrtti> popey: yeah, our company work laptop standard issue
<Myrtti> AlanBell: in the sense that it could come with Windows, true
<Myrtti> otherwise, no
<Myrtti> I'll have to nuke the installation anyway, and that's sad
<Myrtti> ubuntu 32-bit 9.10 desktop --> xubuntu 64-bit 10.10 alternate with luks
<HazRPG> not easy avoiding water underground
 * HazRPG building himself a tunnel xD
<DJones> HazRPG: How do you _build_ a tunnel?
<HazRPG> line the walls with coblestone?
<Twinkletoes> Does anybody have experience of bacula and/or recent versions of amanda?  I've been using bacula but it's very complicated (still not sure I'm running it right!) and for the small number of servers I have to backup, a 6GB+ catalogue file is a bit excessive.  Any comments, suggestions or ideas?
<DJones> HazRPG: Good answer
<HazRPG> DJones: :P
<HazRPG> otherwise I would have just said I was digging a tunnel :P
<HazRPG> ah crap, didn't count how many spaces to the left I needed to go before I hit water
<DJones> Does that mean your tunnel is flooded
<HazRPG> not just yet
<HazRPG> I saw gravel and thought to myself "hmmm... that's usually near water... I'll fill that back up with coblestone... and go left again"
 * popey invites HazRPG to #ubuntu-uk-minecraft :)
<HazRPG> popey: ^^, didn't know it was there
<screen-x> Twinkletoes: rsnapshot
<screen-x> Just had a uknof email saying the final 5 /8s have been allocated, so the IANA pool is now empty..
<Twinkletoes> screen-x: Thankyou - looks interesting, reading now
<screen-x> Go panic buy water, or get your anti-nat cannons ready.
<Neoti|work> yey for ipv6
<Neoti|work> lol
<AlanBell> did you see the ipv6 song?
<screen-x> nope...?
<Neoti|work> yes ...
<danfish> screen-x: I have a spare ipv4 going. The bidding starts at Â£50
<danfish> ;)
<Neoti|work> i personally dont like IP v6... i think they should have just added some oct on ...
<Neoti|work> dam it ...
<Neoti|work> who wanted to remember a hexdec thing.
<Neoti|work> 192.168.200.100 is far more easyer to remember lol
<screen-x> danfish: nah, that belongs to your ISP ;-)   It would be good if you could get a single provider independent address, but that would make for _very_ large routing tables.
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qYS31SOq6A
<danfish> screen-x: nah - it's mine honest and very unique - "127.0.0.1" :P
<popey> www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pube5Aynsls
<popey> *shudder*
<AlanBell> how the heck did they get that youtube URL and why is popey pasting it here?
<popey> haha
<popey> its got RMS in it
<danfish> why is it I read the bit after the "=" in popey's link as "pube analysis"?
<danfish> ...I need to keep taking the tablets
 * popey points danfish at AlanBell and around 2 mins ago
<danfish> popey: d'oh!
 * AlanBell clicks cautiously
<AlanBell> oh my
<AlanBell> I think I would rather watch what I thought it was going to be
<Pendulum> AlanBell: do I want to know what you thought it would be?
<screen-x> AlanBell: ipv6 song, very good :)
<AlanBell> Pendulum: no, you don't want to know that
<dogmatic69> anyone know why the sensors applet does not show my cpu? i3 on a Gigabyte GA-H55M-S2 mobo
<dogmatic69> running x86 10.10
<AlanBell> shhh shhhh, it's oh so quiet
<dogmatic69> :(
<popey> AlanBell: you at the expo again?
<AlanBell> yes
<AlanBell> then on to the font thing
<popey> ah
<popey> hows the expo today?
<MartijnVdS> http://i.imgur.com/qePef.jpg
<popey> :)
<AlanBell> it isn't very busy
<AlanBell> if nobody turns up soon I may be forced to install minecraft
<kazade> AlanBell, do it!
<pauliunx> hi, i have a question: I recently installed lxde (lubuntu) and I'm very very happy with the desktop environment but it has a problem, it has no gui for setting up dual monitors [ BIG desktop ], so what I did was log out, re-load gnome, create the monitor layout with it's monitor gui and then logged out again and logged in with lxde and it works. the only problem is, when I restart my computer and login with my lxde again, the big layout is lost so I have 
<pauliunx> i have a radeon 9550 card
<popey> haha
 * popey points pauliunx at MartijnVdS who knows about ATI cards :)
<popey> pauliunx: you probably need to make an xorg.conf
<popey> AlanBell: you'll be welcome in #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<pauliunx> popey: yea i found out about that file, no idea how to write it though..
<kazade> pauliunx, are you using the official driver (from the hardware drivers section) or the default open source one?
<pauliunx> kazade: the default one, when i go to hardware drivers, it says no proprietary drivers were found
<kazade> ah ok, then I don't think an Xorg.conf is gonna help you..
<pauliunx> i see amd released catalyst drivers for ubuntu 10.4
<pauliunx> downloading them now
<kazade> pauliunx, wait..
<pauliunx> maybe i can set things up over there
<kazade> it it's not listed in hardware drivers, it means either a.) your card is no longer supported by AMD or b.) you are missing a package
<pauliunx> oh...probably a) then
<kazade> pauliunx, just to be sure, make sure "fglrx-modaliases" is installed
<kazade> that contains the info of which driver supports which card
<kazade> if it's missing, hardware drivers will be empty even if your card isn't supported
<kazade> *is
<pauliunx> it's already installed
<pauliunx> fglrx-modaliases is already the newest version.
<kazade> ok, that means that installing the driver from AMD won't work (and may break stuff)
<pauliunx> can't I just copy/paste the files that are generating the current layout somewhere to make them permanent?
<kazade> apparently lxde has a monitor tool called LXRandr
<kazade> sudo apt-get install lxrandr ?
<pauliunx> yes, but it only offers turning the monitors on/off and rezolutions
<pauliunx> nothing past that, doesn't give the choice of extending a monitor
<kazade> I see... it's odd that it's not saving the information
<kazade> what you did is supposed to make it permanent, at least for you
<pauliunx> hm...i guess lxde and gnome use different files when loading
<kazade> they shouldn't do, it's the same underlying technology (xrandr)
<kazade> um, perhaps ask the lxde guys?
<kazade> http://wiki.lxde.org/en/IRC_Chat
<pauliunx> on their forum it says they have no developers who use two monitors :))
<kazade> oh... brilliant
<pauliunx> alrighty, I'll just leave it at this for now
<kazade> and xorg.conf will probably work
<kazade> although, it's not *supposed* to be the way to do it :)
<pauliunx> don't know how to do it
<kazade> some info here: http://maketecheasier.com/how-to-setup-dual-monitors-with-xrandr/2009/06/01
<kazade> it's not ideal..
<kazade> hmm, pauliunx can you run the gnome monitor config from inside lxde?
<pauliunx> it doesn't show up
<kazade> run: gnome-display-properties
<kazade> either in ALT+F2 (if lxde has it) or from a terminal
<kazade> pauliunx, I understand the problem
<kazade> lxde is supposed to set your saved mode at login, but apparently it doesn't. So you can add a line to a file called /etc/xdg/lxsession/autostart ...
<AlanBell> sladen is here now
<kazade> although, the xrandr line will be dependent on your setup :(
<kazade> pauliunx, some info here: http://forum.lxde.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=375
<pauliunx> kazade: sorry, got disconnected
<pauliunx> yes, i can run gnome-display but it doesn't actually do anything
<pauliunx> if I click apply nothing changes
<pauliunx> any idea why?
<kazade> erm...
<kazade> no, that should have worked
<kazade> if you run it in a terminal, is there any output (e.g an error)
<kazade> ?
<pauliunx> two warnings
<pauliunx> (gnome-display-properties:1754): Gtk-WARNING **: Ignoring the separator setting
<pauliunx> (gnome-display-properties:1754): Gtk-WARNING **: No object called:
<kazade> hmm, I dunno :(
<kazade> that really should've worked...
<pauliunx> could you please give me the xorg.conf link again?
<pauliunx> gonna try it that way
<screen-x> Things never look quite how I expect them to: http://prt.org/new/html/k.marmite-servers.net.html
<kazade> pauliunx, this is useful: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Xorg_RandR_1.2#Using__.24_xrandr
<kazade> pauliunx, here's the original link I sent you: http://maketecheasier.com/how-to-setup-dual-monitors-with-xrandr/2009/06/01
<kazade> actually, that doesn't tell you what I thought it did
<kazade> here we go: http://intellinuxgraphics.org/dualhead.html
<kazade> that tells you the two methods (xrandr and xorg.conf)
<kazade> for "Driver" you want "ati"
<kazade> I think... or maybe "radeon" I can't remember
<kazade> but definitely not "intel" :p
<daubers> o/
<popey> AlanBell: give sladen a hug from me
<pauliunx> thanks kazade
<pauliunx> i'll try that now
 * daubers popped into the expo, wasn't very impressed said hello and vanished again
<MooDoo> daubers: that good eh?
<screen-x> dogmatic69: I got some sensor info by loading the coretemp module
<AlanBell> daubers: did you?
<daubers> AlanBell: I did indeed :)
<dogmatic69> screen-x: i got it going, sensor-detect
<AlanBell> daubers: this morning?
<daubers> AlanBell: About lunchtime, you had gone to see a customer apparently
<screen-x> dogmatic69: sensors-detect didn't find anything for me, had to load the module manually.
<daubers> :)
<AlanBell> bother, probably just missed you
<AlanBell> we got here at lunchtime
<dogmatic69> well i just restarted after that
<daubers> Ahh, ok
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] Update Regarding Usage Based Billing of the Internet in Canada - Government will Reverse CRTC ruling - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/update-regarding-usage-based-billing-internet-canada-government-will-reverse-crtc-ruling
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> I  have a question regarding cron which invokes the shell script at 9am and 9pm
<kaushal> How do i handle the situation when the job which is running since 9am has not yet completed
<kaushal> till 9pm
<screen-x> kaushal: pidfiel
<screen-x> pid file even
<kaushal> screen-x: not sure i understand that
<AlanBell> well everyone is packing up now
<AlanBell> think the expo is done
<MooDoo> AlanBell: everyone wants to go to the pub
<MooDoo> AlanBell: so was it worth it?
<screen-x> bother, I keep starting a converstation then getting disconnected and not realising :(
 * screen-x slaps bip
<davmor2> MooDoo: check out my fb page pic of czajkowski just for you dude :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: geotagged too
<gurkan_> hi all
<gurkan_> how to set the smtp server of my provider in my home's mailrc file i use mailutils 2.1
<Baikonur> dunno
<gurkan_> dunno
<gurkan_> ?
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Ralph Janke] AskUbuntu has Gone through the 10,000 Users Threshold - http://drupal.txwikinger.me.uk/content/askubuntu-has-gone-through-10000-users-threshold
<MartijnVdS> IT'S OVER 9000!
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I need to run this command LD_PRELOAD=/usr/lib32/libv4l/v4l1compat.so skype, but if I add it as a launcher it gives me error, the only way I can run it is typing it onto the terminal
<pr0ph3t> how do I create a launcher for that? Should I create a bash script that replaces the skype in /usr/bin/?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: create a small shell script, then have the launcher launch the shell script
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: shell script can be two lines:
<MartijnVdS> #! /bin/bash
<MartijnVdS> LD_PRELOAD=etc etc
<pr0ph3t> and then make it exec
<MartijnVdS> call it "skype.sh", put it somewhere in your homedir, make it executable (you can do this in the "Properties" screen in the file manager)
<MartijnVdS> exactly
<pr0ph3t> ok thanks MartijnVdS
<pr0ph3t> MartijnVdS, is it chmod 777 skype.sh?
<MartijnVdS> pr0ph3t: 777 is way too much
<MartijnVdS> 755 is more than enough.. but I'd recommend just saying: chmod u+x file
<MartijnVdS> ("for user add execute")
<pr0ph3t> thank you
<pr0ph3t_> re all
<MonsterKiller> Hey. I tried to change my ubuntu server password and got: passwd: Authentication token manipulation error
<MonsterKiller> what does it mean? :/
<MartijnVdS> it means either your old password was wrong
<MartijnVdS> or the new ones didn't match
<xircon-brb> Hi
<xircon-st> Just testing my cheapo scroll tablet from maplins
<BigRedS> Ooooh, how is it?
<xircon-st> Better since I rooted it and installed a different build.prop
<xircon-st> You get what you pay for android market worked briefly (manual states it is not supported)
<xircon-st> Also better with a cheap nintendo ds stylus
<BigRedS> Hmmm
<BigRedS> I've been pondering one of those as a sort-of marginally-smart-screen more than a tablet
<xircon-st> In retrospect I should have perhaps got a stream of a galaxy but it's OK for the money
<xircon-st> Sorry streak!
<BigRedS> I did wonder :)
<xircon-st> Bloody SwiftKey keyboard still getting used to it
<xircon-st> It's pretty good though,  can type fairly quickly good find
<xircon-st> There is a very friendly forum looking at an upgrade to2. 2
 * MartijnVdS is waiting for that Xoom thing
<MartijnVdS> with Honeycomb
<xircon-st> Any pricing available yet
<MartijnVdS> no
<MartijnVdS> well
<MartijnVdS> the US price without a plan will be â¬550ish
<MartijnVdS> (after conversion)
<xircon-st> Unfortunately $ normally = Â£
<xircon-st> We live in a ripoff world
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> same with â¬
<Azelphur> behavioural advertising is funny, it always shows me things I've already bought
<Azelphur> it's like anti-advertising.
<MartijnVdS> what like Russian brides? :P
<brobostigon-andr> Evening evryone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon-andr
<brobostigon-andr> Hey MartijnVdS
<suprengr> o/ brobostigon-andr MartijnVdS
<suprengr> are we the only ones not at the 'do'
<brobostigon-andr> Hi suprengr
<brobostigon-andr> Maybe
<brobostigon-andr> I just had a chat with my dad and he has something good for me to work on.
<brobostigon-andr> Damn. Battery. :(
 * BigRedS isn't at the do
<BigRedS> Is this the font thingy you're on about?
<brobostigon-andr> No.
<brobostigon-andr> My dad his forming his own company and wants me to do the it. :)
<brobostigon-andr> IT
<MartijnVdS> cool
<brobostigon-andr> MartijnVdS: so I need to find dns and a server provider
<BigRedS> oooh, handy
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon-andr: gandi.net, gandi.net :)
<brobostigon-andr> MartijnVdS: that was my intial thought and then bytemark.
<MartijnVdS> they're nice people
<brobostigon-andr> That's the impression I get.
 * brobostigon-andr is in the pub with his dad,and where he thinks the best.
<brobostigon-andr> So this is going to be a lot of work.
 * suprengr likes brobostigon-andr's Dad... he has brains ;)
 * brobostigon-andr gets everyone a real ale.
<suprengr> num num... cheers
<brobostigon-andr> :)
<BigRedS> mmm, handy
<brobostigon-andr> So I might be calling on your chaps and gals for help.
<brobostigon-andr> Ok, speak later. When I get home.
<brobostigon-andr> Enjoy the beer. :)
<suprengr> bfn brobostigon-andr  & ta for the beer
<suprengr> [hic]
<brobostigon-andr> You're welcome suprengr
<brobostigon-andr> Lol
<brobostigon-andr> Bbl
<brobostigon-andr> Cheers
<brobostigon-andr> Iechyd dda
<suprengr> & good health 2u2
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jamie Bennett] Linaro 11.05 Alpha-2 Released - http://www.linuxuk.org/2011/02/806/
<hamitron> 18 hours downtime for my internet conenction... I got the shakes ;/
<Jibadeeha> cold turkey?
<Azelphur> this is why I have a phone
<Azelphur> redundancy!
<Jibadeeha> first question i ask when house hunting is, "can you get broadband?"
<BigRedS> I forget there ae houses you can't get broadband in
<Jibadeeha> hard to imagine isn't it
<BigRedS> Though I have spent the large majority of my life in London
<Jibadeeha> London gets everything first
<Jibadeeha> even the plague
<Jibadeeha> ;)
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I'd not want to live in London
<hamitron> too busy, fast and dangerous
<directhex> off to brussels tomorrow. i'd better play videogames for 3 hours
<hamitron> get the fix? ;)
<hamitron> I'm right off comp games after last night
<hamitron> got to the 18th race of the season on F1 2010, and I am told my team will not be renewing my contract
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> spent about 2.5 hours per race, and got points in a rubbish car, then they tell me that
<Jibadeeha> sounds very random
<Jibadeeha> all that investment to be told that
<hamitron> I was upset, my team mate has no points
<hamitron> :)
<Jibadeeha> i was playing an old game on Spectrum emulator today, and was surprise how addictive the game was .. was just like old times
<Jibadeeha> Sabre Wulf btw
<hamitron> and a Lotus in F1, getting 3rd and 6th in 2 races is good....
<hamitron> never played it
<hamitron> I always liked Millionaire
<Jibadeeha> fantastic game, but the keys make it hard Q=left, W=right, E=up, R=down, T=sword
<hamitron> :)
<Jibadeeha> given your nickname hamitron, i would expect you to be driving a McLaren
<hamitron> I have used this nickname for nearly 15 years
<Jibadeeha> well before hami in F1 then
<hamitron> long before
<hamitron> haha
<Jibadeeha> hehehe
<hamitron> I actually mainly play racing games
<Jibadeeha> last F1 game i played was F1 2008 for my old playstation 1 ... was fantastic
<hamitron> and find it annoying everyone automatically assumes I got it from that
<Jibadeeha> oh not 2008
<hamitron> I have Formula 1 '97
<hamitron> :)
<Jibadeeha> '98
<Jibadeeha> man i am getting old
<Jibadeeha> time is passing me bye
<hamitron> in '98....
<hamitron> can you see what the weather is like before starting a race?
<hamitron> :/
<Jibadeeha> i can't remember
<hamitron> I can't find it in F1 '97, and it always ruined it for me
<hamitron> starting a wet race on slicks :/
<Jibadeeha> i always think 98 was a good year for the sport
<hamitron> draw distance on the PS1 was not nearly as good as the PC either
<hamitron> was that the year Damon Hill raced for Jordan?
<Jibadeeha> i loved F1 when it was Schumi v Hakki
<Jibadeeha> yeah Hill and Schumi as well
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> mine has Hill in the Arrows
<Jibadeeha> F1 was great back in those days
<hamitron> better than now
<hamitron> but still not overly great
<Jibadeeha> hamitron, you are making me want to get my play station out of the loft
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> my PS1 is boxed atm, just got my NES setup
<Jibadeeha> the graphics were superb back in the day
<Jibadeeha> have you tried a PS1 emulator?
<hamitron> yes
<Jibadeeha> any good?
<hamitron> but I have better games for the PC
<hamitron> it works
<hamitron> but I see console gaming as just a quick and easy, turn on and play when you want kinda thing
<Jibadeeha> is it the same speed?
<hamitron> having to setup an emulator destroys that
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> I think so
<Jibadeeha> i agree .. prefer using a console for games
<Jibadeeha> i only have a Wii at the moment and a PS1
<Jibadeeha> i keep thinking of buying F1 for Wii, but the graphics don't look so hot
<hamitron> if I want the trouble of setting up a game on a PC, I play a fully featured PC game :)
<Jibadeeha> you ever played Metal Gear Solid
<Azelphur> Jibadeeha: why use a console for games when there are so many good emulators out there and perfectly good methods to hook up controllers?
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> Azelphur: it is effort
<Jibadeeha> Azelphur, i only have a netbook :(
<Azelphur> it's like A) Buy a Wii, B) Buy a PC that can play Wii, Gamecube, PS2, and anything else you want :P
<Azelphur> sell the consoles get a decent PC then :P
<hamitron> I bought a PSP to play games while having a dump ;/
<Azelphur> the emulators are even open source, it's like christmas.
<hamitron> my PC doesn't do it
<hamitron> short of bring a bowl here
<Jibadeeha> Azelphur, i am not a big game player though to invest much money into it .. i get bored of playing games after about 2 hours ... only F1 games keep me addicted, don't ask why .. perhaps cos i like the sport
<hamitron> bringing*
<Azelphur> I bought an android phone, I have PSX, SNES, NES, Genesis/Megadrive, GBA, GBC, with about 5k games packed onto the SD card and room to spare :D
<Jibadeeha> Azelphur, i do have a ZX spectrum emulator and 3000 games for it from a CD i bought ... love the old games
<hamitron> Azelphur: and you reckon that is as easy and relaxing as using a PS2 on a large LCD tv in the living room?
<Jibadeeha> i don't want to buy a clunky tower/desktop PC - would rather have a console under the TV
<Azelphur> hamitron: no, I was comparing my android phone to the PSP
<hamitron> PSP has better controls
<Azelphur> hamitron: as for the PS2, I have a far superior setup on my TV in the living room too :)
<Azelphur> hamitron: android has any controls you want, you can get attachable controllers.
<Jibadeeha> when i had a desktop PC and bought games for it ... there was always the fear of whether the game would perform well on the PC , e..g CPU speed, video card, enough memory, etc ... you don't get that with a console
<hamitron> Azelphur: and the cost?
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> got my PSP for Â£81
<Azelphur> hamitron: in my front room I have MythTV. It has a media center with 1.5TB of media/games. Full DVR capability and a couple of playstation controllers hooked up to it :P
<Azelphur> hamitron: not bad, I just picked up my mum a psx4droid capable phone for Â£100
<Azelphur> but it was new
<Azelphur> i assume your psp wasn't :P
<hamitron> no, but mine reads UMD
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> yours doesn't read microsd :)
<hamitron> PSP games don't come on that :/
<Azelphur> hehe
<hamitron> but I still reckon the feel is better
<hamitron> a phone can play games, but not really designed for it
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<Azelphur> I've played through NFS Shift and most of Gran turismo on my G2
<Azelphur> lovin it :P
<hamitron> sure it is fun...
<hamitron> ;/
<hamitron> I'll play RACE 07 with my logitech FF wheel
<hamitron> ;)
<Azelphur> and I'll play flight gear with my flight yoke
<hamitron> can't dot hat on your phone ;p
<Azelphur> can't do that on your psp either?
<hamitron> true, can't make phone calls either, as it is for gaming
<Azelphur> hehe :)
<hamitron> I am still a huge fan of the PSP though, feels more modern than even the DS
<hamitron> just a shame it is sony
<Azelphur> hamitron: I just had an interesting idea
<Azelphur> I wonder if you could use an android phone to do virtual reality
<hamitron> I liek real reality ;/
<hamitron> like*
<Azelphur> I'mma try it
<Jibadeeha> i wish flight gear would work on my asus netbook
<Azelphur> lol it sorta works
<Azelphur> I fired up google skymap closed one eye and put the phone in front of my eye
<Jibadeeha> as much as i hate M$ ... flight simulator was fantastic
<Azelphur> it's really out of focus but it works :o
<Azelphur> I'mma try it with layar that'd be sick :o
<Jibadeeha> stellarium is good Azelphur
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> better than sky map?
<hamitron> I never could fly planes
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> loved the idea of Rowan's Battle of Brit
<Jibadeeha> well i like google skymap on my android cos it knows what am i looking at by pointing it
<Azelphur> yea :)
<Azelphur> that's why I thought it'd be a good test for virtual reality
<Jibadeeha> true
<Jibadeeha> i love the number of stars in stellarium though
<Azelphur> lol, the answer to could an android phone be used for virtual reality is: possibly it's very blurry xD
<Jibadeeha> my android phone is too slow for virtual reality
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I have an overclocked G2 :)
<Jibadeeha> mine is a hero
<Jibadeeha> but not in the true sense of the word
<Jibadeeha> do you guys have surround sound?
<hamitron> no
<hamitron> 2.1
<Jibadeeha> same here hamitron
<Jibadeeha> i keep thinking of buying a surround system but don't like the idea of so many speakers in my living room and messing about with wires under the carpet
<hamitron> amp and speakers cost more than most surround sound systems :/
<Jibadeeha> hamitron, do you find when you play DVDs in 5.1 on your 2.1 system that you have to turn the volume up a bit higher
<hamitron> I go for sound quality and power, over directions
<hamitron> erm
<hamitron> no :/
<Jibadeeha> oh i find that when playing through my TV speakers ... volume is a lot lower
<Jibadeeha> so do you have your TV connected to your amp
<hamitron> I have no tv
<hamitron> ;)
<Jibadeeha> ah lol
<hamitron> I sometimes use my parents tv
<hamitron> it is just fine with tv speakers
<Jibadeeha> i am not impressed with my parents surround sound tv
<hamitron> I think it depends what you want from it
<hamitron> I never listen to music from the tv
<hamitron> I use a hifi for that
<Jibadeeha> they got rid of their hifi and now play DVDs through the TV ... not for me ... i have kept my hifi and like all my music to be played through the amp and my technic speakers
<hamitron> and as for dvd, most my dvd won't have 5.1
<Jibadeeha> a lot of DVDs these days are in 5.1
<hamitron> "these days"?
<hamitron> ;/
<Jibadeeha> "back in the day"
<Jibadeeha> lol
<hamitron> most my dvd are old war movies
<hamitron> haha
<Jibadeeha> longest day
<Jibadeeha> bridge too far
<hamitron> tbh, I bet most are mono :/
<Jibadeeha> hehehe
<Jibadeeha> Zulu is my fav
<hamitron> I don't have Zulu
<Jibadeeha> "chin chin old chap"
<hamitron> my Dad does
<hamitron> :))
<Jibadeeha> Zulu is a classic - you got to buy it
<hamitron> yeh, I am still looking for a Michael Caine set I like the look of
<hamitron> for the right price ofc ;)
<Jibadeeha> Italian Job, Get Carter, and Zulu
<Jibadeeha> Educating Rita is good though
<hamitron> there are so many :/
<Jibadeeha> such a good actor
<hamitron> I like box sets once the cost per movie is less than Â£1.50 each
<Jibadeeha> i know what you mean
<Jibadeeha> they had a Clint Eastwood box set in the supermarket the other day that had about 10 films for next to nothing
<Jibadeeha> "come here blondie"
<hamitron> I actually bought Fistful of Dollars trillogy all seperate
<hamitron> some of my first dvd they were
<Jibadeeha> good films
<hamitron> Â£5 each was cheap then
<Jibadeeha> "these days" you can pick them up for Â£3.99, so not bad
<AlanBell> evening all
<hamitron> I just got all 22 bond movies for Â£40
<hamitron> well, few weeks ago
<Jibadeeha> hamitron, amazon?
<hamitron> yeh
<Jibadeeha> i might copy you on that one
<hamitron> it was too good to miss
<Jibadeeha> love the bond movies
<Jibadeeha> though wife doesn't
<hamitron> hi AB
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> it is only the single disc case sets
<Jibadeeha> "from Russia with love"
<hamitron> not the double one with extras
<hamitron> but I never watch extras
<Jibadeeha> i never rip the extras
<hamitron> omg
<hamitron> Â£65 now
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Collection-including-Quantum-Solace/dp/B00307RT86/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1296776745&sr=8-1
<Jibadeeha> is that cos John Barry or whatever he is called died?
<hamitron> could be
<hamitron> dunno
<hamitron> it was Â£65 before xmas
<hamitron> I just saw it in sale and had to have it
<Jibadeeha> maybe not then
<Jibadeeha> the bond movies are the best
<Jibadeeha> "odd job"
<hamitron> I am trying to resist Test Drive Unlimited 2 :/
<hamitron> Â£25 on pre-order
<Jibadeeha> go for it
<hamitron> the first one I have, but waited till the price had dropped to get it
<hamitron> and loads had stopped playing by then
<Jibadeeha> you ever played return to castle wolfenstein
<hamitron> yeh, I bought it twice
<hamitron> :)
<Jibadeeha> think i might buy it and a console that can play it
<hamitron> a console?
<Jibadeeha> i remember the very first MS-DOS wolfenstein
<Jibadeeha> i only have a netbook hamitron
<hamitron> I didn't know it was on console
<Jibadeeha> oh it might not be
<Jibadeeha> will have to check
<hamitron> ps2
<hamitron> xbox
<hamitron> nice :D
<hamitron> but gotta use a PC for such games ;)
<Jibadeeha> i so want to avoid having a desktop
<Jibadeeha> but Wolfenstein could change that
<hamitron> won't it play on the netbook?
<Jibadeeha> doubt it
<Jibadeeha> this thing won't play flightgear
<hamitron> but it is a really old game
<hamitron> 400mhz cpu...
<hamitron> runs on windows 95 :D
<Jibadeeha> return to castle wolfeinstein
<Jibadeeha> it isn't that old
<Jibadeeha> is it
<hamitron> yeh
<hamitron> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Return_to_Castle_Wolfenstein#Source_Code_Release
<hamitron> there is actually a newer one also
<Jibadeeha> 2001
<hamitron> I used to run it on my K6-2 500MHz with 2 x voodoo2 in sli
<hamitron> :)
<Jibadeeha> i might buy it then as it runs on Linux
<hamitron> need to check that
<Jibadeeha> i just assumed it wouldn't work well
<hamitron> can maybe download it free, released under GPL
<Jibadeeha> let me check
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-04
<hamitron> I don't remember ever running the client on linux
<hamitron> a server, yeh
<hamitron> brb
<Jibadeeha> k
<hamitron> bk
<brobostigon> evening everyone.
<pauliunx> hi, I have a problem, if I hit 'hibernate' it will work the first time, but after resuming it won't work again, the screens go blank and the system freezes so i need to reset it. anyone have any idea?
 * ball <- running Xubuntu
<ball> It's time to put the kettle on.
<MartijnVdS> ball: excellent idea
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: wow your still up?
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: no, I'm already up
<HazRPG> I think I may have lost a day... playing minecraft >_<
<HazRPG> only just looked at the time now >_<
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: uninstall! uninstall!
<HazRPG> lol
<MartijnVdS> vr feb  4 05:47:25 UTC 2011
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: ^
<HazRPG> IKR!
<HazRPG> I looked at it and went... hang on a sec, didn't I start playing at 5pm!?!?
<HazRPG> >_<
<HazRPG> oh well
<HazRPG> tis fun
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: don't blame us if you fail exams/get fired/etc. ;)
<HazRPG> mobs really really frustrate me tho
<HazRPG> heh, how can i blame anyone but myself
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: the people here told you to try it ;)
<HazRPG> I've heard about minecraft for a while - just never played it until recently.
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: true... but I was considering playing it anyways xD
<HazRPG> it was the price that swayed me mainly
<HazRPG> I thought "if I wait... and get it later... I'll regret not having bought it when it was cheap"
<HazRPG> however... I was also thinking... "I still have lots of other games, that I still haven't played"
<HazRPG> in the end, since popey had his own server up... thought why the hell not xD
<HazRPG> oops... oh well...
<HazRPG> I'll just have to make sure I don't double-click it as often...
<HazRPG> or better yet! Setup a task so that the shortcuts only show up after a certain time xD
<HazRPG> and another one, to auto-kill it at a certain time, and also hide shortcuts xD
<HazRPG> plan!
<HazRPG> already have such things in place for games I use to be addicted to
 * HazRPG should maybe lay off the caffeine
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: I'm off to bed, before I find more things to do in minecraft...
<HazRPG> nn
<AlanBell> morning
<nigelb> Morning AlanBell :)
<BigRedS> G'morning!
<screen-x> morning :)
 * BigRedS needs something that breaks more obviously when the connection disappears
<screen-x> BigRedS: +1
<BigRedS> It has before got to ~11am before I've noticed that all the timestamps in this dead channel are at about 3am, when for whatever reason I disconnected from he ssh session
<screen-x> heh I've been braving #ubuntu for a few mins, not going to last long in there..
<MooDoo> hello all
<screen-x> morning MooDoo :)
<DJones> Morning MooDoo screen-x
<Compacthack> Morning all
<screen-x> mornign Compacthack  :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: ServerAliveInterval in ~/.ssh/config (see man ssh_config)
<Compacthack> My Superdrive has finally turned up, 10.10 is going into my Macbook Air!
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: depends where the connection failure is..
<screen-x> Compacthack: which MBA have you got?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: sure, if it's the connection to the IRC server that's flaking out, you'll need to teach irssi some tricks :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: but it's possible to get a blinking red "CONNECTION LOST" in each window with minimal scripting
<screen-x> I get a message saying I'm no longer connected, but its usually just before the connection is re-established, so its pretty useless.
<Compacthack> screen-x: 11" with 128GB SSD, 1.6GHz CPU and 4GB RAM
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: I get it in window 1, where I tend to not look
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: (because of Freenode spam)
<MartijnVdS> "Boohoo we're the admins and some server is going down" SO WHAT, I'LL RECONNECT... *ahem*
 * MartijnVdS wanders off to get some calming tea
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: heh, I never really read the console.
<screen-x> Compacthack: :) Let us know how 10.10 runs on there..
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: I keep meaning to fiddle with that config :)
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: I think this needs to be a script, because it has to write something to all relevant windows at once
<Compacthack> screen-x: Will do, been difficult to install, ended up taking the easy option and brought a Superdrive (USB DVD/CDROM)
<screen-x> Compacthack: it wont install from usb?
<Compacthack> Nope, a Apple thing with the MBA I think
<Compacthack> People have done it by coping usb install to a partition then booting into that, but bug with the installer, tries to unmount the install partition when setting up the other partitions
<screen-x> ahh :(
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: Ah, I include scripting in config. But It's thankfully quite rare that I find myself on such a flaky connection
<MooDoo> morning kazade
<kazade> morning MooDoo
<kazade> MooDoo, #ubuntu-uk-minecraft ;)
<BigRedS> kazade:
<nigelb> 23
<MooDoo> 153 ;)
<directhex> time to pack!
<daubers> Morning
<screen-x> \o daubers
<screen-x> where are you off to directhex?
<directhex> brussels!
<screen-x> directhex: as an official delegation?
<directhex> screen-x, i'm giving a talk, if that counts
<screen-x> cool, what on?
<directhex> FOSDEM
<screen-x> directhex: found you :) http://fosdem.org/2011/schedule/event/mono_debian
<screen-x> ooh I'd like to listen to Lennart Poettering on systemd, hope that gets recorded
<directhex> hm. i can't find my passport
<directhex> this is now a priority
<MooDoo> directhex: best get off here and find it then :)
<JamesTait> Good morning, Angels! Happy Friday!
<screen-x> JamesTait: you win the award for most inventive good morning line :)
<JamesTait> Why, thank you. :)
<Neoti|work> hey people...... just had a friday cob ... and feel great... hows people ...
<MooDoo> hmmmm friday cob :)
<Neoti|work> its a reward to my self for getting through another crap week ... he he
<Neoti|work> lol
<MooDoo> lucky bugger, although i've got a starbucks coffee :)
<directhex> !!!
<MooDoo> directhex: found it?
<Neoti|work> umm coffee
<directhex> no :x
<directhex> gonna have a shower, clear my mind
<screen-x> directhex: wont be in there
<bigcalm> Good FRIDAY! morning peeps :)
<sven__> Hello everyone :]
<DJones> Morning sven__
<sven__> DJones,  can i ask you something :)
<sven__> mey*
<DJones> Sure, give it a go
<Neoti|work> anyone in here from BT ?
<bigcalm> Who would admit to that?
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski how was canonical?
<czajkowski> grand
<czajkowski> you missed the hug
<czajkowski> hus
<MooDoo> czajkowski: nice picture ;)
<czajkowski> hugs
<MooDoo> czajkowski: i'll get one when i see you in london for the rugby ;)
<screen-x> morning czajkowski.. I was looking for directhex on fosdem.org, and spotted that you are also speaking :)
<bigcalm> AHA! Realised why there is money in the joint account. No council tax this month
<czajkowski> screen-x: aye
<AlanBell> popey: sladen got hugged
<screen-x> bigcalm: are you "visiting" ;-)
<gord> czajkowski, were you doing anything fun in millbank?
<bigcalm> screen-x: I think that you pay 10 months out of 12. Rather like the tv licence. I have no idea why though
<screen-x> bigcalm: oddness, shows how closely I monitor my accounts (!)
<gord> sometimes evolution says that i have x unread messages when i clearly have none, annoying
<bigcalm> screen-x: Where I used to live on my own and got the 25% off was nearly as much as normal council tax here
<bigcalm> Where I used to live was lovely, but darn expensive
<MooDoo> wow loads of speakers at fosdem
<czajkowski> gord: poking people :)
<gord> czajkowski, a hard job, but someone has to do it
<MooDoo> gord: didn't you see the pic of czajkowski on facebook? smiling while she was doing it ;)
 * popey pokes bigcalm with #ubuntu-uk-minecraft :)
<gord> i don't really use facebook, i have facebook chat hooked up to my IM's but thats about it, too lazy to go to a website
<MooDoo> gord: don't blame you to be honest lol
<s-fox> Hello.
<MooDoo> s-fox: good morning
<popey> \o/ no facebook account
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo .  How are you?
<MooDoo> s-fox: i'm very well thanks, going to see peter kay in notts tonight :D
<directhex> :'(
<s-fox> That sounds fun MooDoo
 * czajkowski pokes AlanBell and TheOpenSourcerer 
<czajkowski> bah
<czajkowski> boarding
<czajkowski> toodles
 * TheOpenSourcerer waves at czajkowski
 * AlanBell hugs czajkowski 
<MooDoo> s-fox: yes i'm looking forward to it
<AlanBell> have a nice flight
<czajkowski> hello ye two messers
<TheOpenSourcerer> enjoy the train.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: TRAIN... do you remember last nights chats my dear
<TheOpenSourcerer> It's fun.
<AlanBell> oh yeah
<czajkowski> TheOpenSourcerer: even you remembered
<TheOpenSourcerer> I'm like an elephant me ;-)
<czajkowski> AlanBell: yer getting old :p
<AlanBell> czajkowski: never listen to a thing you say, should know that by now
<czajkowski> clearly
<czajkowski> bye
<MooDoo> czajkowski: bye x
<AlanBell> choo choo o/
<s-fox> Bye czajkowski  :)
<MooDoo> hmmm tapas or wagammamas tonight?
 * screen-x votes wagammamas
<s-fox> tapas
<AlanBell> wagamammas
<Laney> there's a tapas restaurant called iberico near the galleries of justice that is really good
<Laney> i recommend that
 * popey votes tapas
<MooDoo> thanks Laney :)
 * bigcalm isn't that excited by tapas
<bigcalm> MooDoo: What's your location?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: i'm in nottingham
<bigcalm> May I recomend sushi? :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: don't eat fish, cooked or raw
<MooDoo> :D
<MooDoo> actually i take that statement back
<bigcalm> That does limit the choices then :)
<MartijnVdS> Sushi++
<MooDoo> as sushi isn't necassarilyfish if i'm not mistaken :)
<s-fox> Canas y Tapas is not so far from here and is really good for tapas
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: you could try f&c ;)
<MooDoo> s-fox: anything near the concert hall to be honest :D
<popey> MooDoo: why don't you eat fish?
<popey> daubers doesnt either iirc
<MooDoo> popey: had a bad reaction when i was younger and never tried it since.
<dutchie> i don't particularly like fish, if that counts
<screen-x> I don't eat fish either.
<screen-x> ^5 dutchie
<MooDoo> i don't mind sea food but not fish, although my wife says i should try monk fish as it's meatier
 * MooDoo must remember to time how fast my ubuntu works now i'm running ssd
<MooDoo> s/works/boots
<directhex> where haven't i looked?
<daubers> popey: I've been converted recently
<daubers> Though still won't go near sushi
 * jpds thinks food is a weapon, and eats everything.
<daubers> I found the trick was to learn to cook it properly.....
<MooDoo> directhex: bedroom draws, on your bookshelf with all your post, in your sock draw, in a secret place only you know about and have forgotten :)
<screen-x> directhex: filing cabinet?, shelves.. bags, coat pockets
<daubers> directhex: In your car?
<screen-x> MooDoo: did you time it with disk, then copy your install to SSD? would be interesting to see the difference SSD makes, when its the only variable thats changed.
<MooDoo> screen-x: no i didn't but it's no hardship to put the normal disk back in for testing
<MooDoo> although it is quite good :D
<popey> daubers: where other halves passport is located
<popey> er directhex
<screen-x> MooDoo: noticeably snappier in normal usage with sshd?
<MooDoo> screen-x: yup :)
<directhex> popey, yes
<directhex> popey, nope
<directhex> popey, got hers, no trouble
<dutchie> woohoo, lectures
<screen-x> MooDoo: do you have plenty of RAM?
<MooDoo>  screen-x 4gb
<MartijnVdS> popey, MooDoo: http://j.mp/i0JlVL
<MooDoo> lol
<screen-x> haha
<MartijnVdS> memegenerator++ :)
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/239/461325122_6dbcf37c81.jpg
<popey> heh
<daubers> Bah, why isn't there a library to deal with magnetic tapes in python
<MartijnVdS> daubers: because magnetic tapes are just special device files, and there are plenty of libraries that deal with those :P
<popey> mt!
<MartijnVdS> tar!
<MartijnVdS> (guess what the "t" stands for..)
<daubers> Yes yes yes, I can just call mt, but it would be nice to do it without resorting to calling a CLI program
<daubers> MartijnVdS: python-tar doesn't rewind the tape and whatnot
<MartijnVdS> daubers: ah, you want to do ioctls then :)
<daubers> MartijnVdS: Got a convenient link for that?
<daubers> Oooh... man st might be useful
<directhex> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
<screen-x> directhex: w00t :)
<directhex> phone wife, find within 60 seconds
<directhex> wife++
<MooDoo> directhex: lol where was it :)
<directhex> MooDoo, inside pocket of my suit jacket
 * screen-x was pretty close at 10:45 then :)
<MooDoo> directhex: typical :D
<Laney> we need more schengen
<MooDoo> Laney: more what?
<Laney> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
<seeker> directhex: My girlfriend always complains that im unobservant and never notice anything
<jpds> Laney: No.
<MooDoo> seeker: i can look for something for ages and it's always right in front of my face as my wife points out
<directhex> right... packing... don't have a suitable bag \o/
<daubers> Meh, my missus complains that I occasionally refer to her as my calender
<seeker> So when i lose stuff she finds it quickly
<seeker> However, when it comes to the Internet, the situation is reversed
<screen-x> daubers: heh, I've pursuaded mrs screen-x to use google calendar :)
<MooDoo> directhex: phone the wife, she'll have one :p
<seeker> She spent 45 mins last night looking for stuff
<seeker> I found it in about 45 seconds
<daubers> screen-x: I tried that, but I always forget to put stuff on it. Easier to mention it to the missus and she'll remind me
<seeker> <- not *totally* useless
<screen-x> daubers: yeah, only works if you both have phones that sync well.
<directhex> i'll steal her bag. remove stockings first though... roommate will look at me funny if i pull those out
<MooDoo> directhex: funny or with a slight wink ;)
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> MooDoo:
<MooDoo> davmor2: morning sir
<bigcalm> Latest version of iTunes has removed the GET button from the Podcasts view. This is odd
<davmor2> bigcalm: that's cause apple hates you :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: the feeling is mutual :)
<bigcalm> iTunes is the only thing of theirs that I use out of choice
<bigcalm> And that's just for the podcasts
<MooDoo> davmor2: good day yesterday?
<screen-x> bigcalm: iTunes is one of the only things of theirs that I hate with a passion. (the other is timecapsule)
<davmor2> MooDoo: busy, nearly missed czajkowski all together :)
<MooDoo> :)
<Neoti|work> When are the people at ubuntu gonna fix the PPTP VPN problems... argh!!! its very anoyning ....
<jpds> Neoti|work: Have you filed a bug report about it?
<popey> Neoti|work: which specific issue? VPNs raise a number of issues
<Neoti|work> ok ignore that ... it just started working .... its not been working for past week on my computer and now it is ... maybe that update i just did fixed it ... either way ... yey
<Neoti|work> every time i tried to connect with the correct user ane password it just failed... yet the same vpn on widnows always worked.... strange.
 * directhex realises saying "X is for girls, manly men use Y" isn't funny, it's just sexist
<popey> directhex: found it yet?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: X-chromosomes are for girls, manly men have Y-chromosomes.
<directhex> [10:58] <directhex> \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/
<popey> heh
<directhex> MartijnVdS, the manliest men have 2!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: exactly!
<bigcalm> I'm lost
<popey> directhex: wifey accuses me of "man looking"
<popey> when I can't find stuff
<popey> "Oh, you've been man looking again?"
<bigcalm> popey: I get that too!
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you're in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
<popey> It's almost always because she's been "woman tidying" stuff away
<bigcalm> NW
<popey> bigcalm: You have been eaten by a grue.
<MartijnVdS> popey: why do I read that with a "deep south" American accent?
<popey> Restart (Y/N)
<bigcalm> N
<popey> C:\>
<bigcalm> format c: /Y
<MooDoo> rm -rf * /
<bigcalm> Did that once by mistake on my dad's machine
<bigcalm> Sorry, my dad's work machine
<MartijnVdS> Cannot load COMMAND, system halted
<screen-x> :(){:|.....
<bigcalm> Good, time for a cuppa tea then :)
<MooDoo> bigcalm: when i was younger and on YTS i was told to go run that command on a machine, they mistakenly thought i knew what it meant ;)
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I accidentally threw a 20MB hard disk off a desk once
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: (PC was disassembled for upgrades)
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: 5" drive?
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: ST-225
<Neoti|work> ok im guessing the vpn problems have been fixed in this update i just did ... YEY !!!!! \0/
<MooDoo> Neoti|work: yay o/
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: http://www.redhill.net.au/d/d-a.html
<Neoti|work> MooDoo : indeed! 0/
<directhex> okay. i will play some minecraft now
<popey> :)
 * popey invites directhex to #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: I keep meaning to disassemble a big old disk, the large platters should make good coasters..
<s-fox> aka popey-world :)
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: my dad has a full-height 5.25" hard disk bookend :)
<screen-x> I've got one of those from an old sun scsi housing :)
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<MooDoo> brobostigon: morning
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS :)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo :)
 * screen-x is having ADSL issues. 
<MooDoo> brobostigon: how are you this fine day?
<brobostigon> MooDoo: not bad, my hip hurts, but more optimistic certainly. and how about you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm not bad, going to see peter kay tonight so that's good.
<brobostigon> MooDoo: cool, have loads of fun, :)
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i will :)  and then i;ll be doing some boot speed tests tomorrow with ubuntu and my ssd
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i just found out,bytemark give native ipv6 for their vps's, :)
<brobostigon> MooDoo: :) , ah, interesting.
<bigcalm> Ooo, I didn't realise that I had an ipv6 address with my bytemark host
<bigcalm> Any way of testing it?
<MooDoo> virgin not doing them yet as far as i can tell
<jpds> bigcalm: mtr -6 gb.archive.ubuntu.com
<bigcalm> Haha
<bigcalm> It wants to install 37 packages before mtr will get installed
<jpds> bigcalm: traceroute6 -n gb.archive.ubuntu.com
<bigcalm> Network in unreachable
<bigcalm> Grumble
<brobostigon> bigcalm: http://www.bytemark.co.uk/support/technical_documents/ipv6
<bigcalm> brobostigon: ta
<brobostigon> bigcalm: you're welcome,
 * bigcalm hunts down the welcome emails
<bigcalm> How odd
<bigcalm> ipv6 address stated in ifconfig is completely different from the welcome email
 * bigcalm gets ready to break his vm
<bigcalm> Broke it :D
<jpds> Well done, good sir.
<MooDoo> bigcalm: well done :D
<bigcalm> # ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0
<bigcalm> FATAL: Could not load /lib/modules/2.6.32.23-kvm-i386-20100923/modules.dep: No such file or directory
 * bigcalm shakes his fist at Bytemark
<screen-x> bigcalm: impressive that you had enough connectivity to receive that error..
<bigcalm> screen-x: I'm logged into the admin console
<screen-x> ahh, makes sesnse
<bigcalm> Maybe I'll leave this to out of office hours
<andylockran> howdy guys
<brobostigon> afternoonings andylockran
<bigcalm> Good evening
<bigcalm> Lots of brown outs!
<bigcalm> So glad I have UPSs
<kernix> hi all
<MooDoo> raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa power cuts
 * MooDoo has made a schoolboy error
<MooDoo> stupid computers
<brobostigon> :(
<bigcalm> MooDoo: getting a lot of brown outs here
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yeah where i am too.....but my server rebooted fine, however as it's a vmware server i forgot to make the vm's restart too :S doh!!!!
<bigcalm> Doh
<bigcalm> You need a UPS :)
<MooDoo> tell me about it....
<MooDoo> bigcalm: yes i know
<bigcalm> :P
<MooDoo> darn vps's lol
<popey> whenever I hear "brown outs" I think of playing Civilisation
<jpds> popey: Not 5 minute chocolate cup-cakes?
<screen-x> \o/ mug cakes
<JamesTait> My kids think popey is some kind of deity after we made those cakes.
<lazarus_> hi all
<JamesTait> MooDoo: Spot on about Virgin not doing IPv6. They have "plenty of free IPv4 addresses" apparently.
<MooDoo> JamesTait: yeah that's what i read in forums last night :)
 * JamesTait hands Virgin Media a pair of glasses. Talk about myopic.
<JamesTait> In the meantime, I got set up with a tunnel from SixXS.
<dwatkins> I guess I should setup a tunnel, not that I really know what I'd do with it, i.e. when I'd need it.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: freenode over ipv6, ipv6.chat.freenode.net :), ipv6.google.com  www.v6.facebook.com
<popey> haha JamesTait
<JamesTait> popey: Of course, we've all known that for years.... ;)
<Darael> Not that ipv6.chat.freenode.net is necessary if one's client prefers v6.
<brobostigon> Darael: good point, easy to set in irssi.
 * JamesTait wonders if his does.
<Darael> And ditto Google if using Hurricane Electric DNS.
<Darael> brobostigon: Precisely.
<Darael> Or any other DNS that Google provide quad-A records to, actually.
 * popey cuddles JamesTait 
 * JamesTait purrs.
<MartijnVdS> sorry about that
<MartijnVdS> v6 \o/
<brobostigon> :)
 * MartijnVdS isn't a pro irssi wranger, apparently
<JamesTait> Judging by my netstat output, me too. :)
<dutchie> the real reason for not setting reverse ipv6 dns: because there is no point having ipv6 unless people on irc can see it
<MartijnVdS> 14:43 [FreeNode] -!- Irssi: Connecting to ipv6.chat.freenode.net  [2001:19f0:feee::dead:beef:cafe] port 6667
<popey> i should probably consider ipv6 on my bitfolk vps at some point
<MartijnVdS> "dead beef cafe", rly?
<jpds> Thankfully most of the Ubuntu mirrors have had v6 for a while.
<brobostigon> jpds: yes, :)
<MartijnVdS> jpds: Facebook has a v6 page, Google is available over v6
<JamesTait> Oh that's what that address is! I was seeing it in my UFW logs and wondering!
<MartijnVdS> When reddit and imgur add v6 support, I can disable v4 ;)
<dutchie> haha
<MartijnVdS> dutchie: google includes youtube.. :)
<andylockran> giwdt akk
<MartijnVdS> andylockran: Welsh?
<DJones> or a hangover
<screen-x> MartijnVdS: not enough 'L's
<MartijnVdS> screen-x: good point
<brobostigon> plenty of welsh words with no l's.
<screen-x> doesnt have enough repeats to be sleeping cat syndrome..
<screen-x> brobostigon: well, it has a k in it, which doesn't exist in welsh (iirc)
<brobostigon> screen-x: good point,
<dwatkins> brobostigon: thanks, I will look into it
<popey> it's "howdy all" with his fingers in the wrong place.
<brobostigon> dwatkins: :)
<JamesTait> Who needs Enigma machines when we've got popey?
<screen-x> JamesTait: are you after a SAP job?
<JamesTait> Not flippin' likely!
<popey> wise
<JamesTait> Anyone going to UDS?
<CaMason> is there a simple way to remove some of the old kernels?
<popey> CaMason: install cruft-removal tool
<popey> or computer janitor or whatever it's called
<popey> !find computer-janitor-gtk
<CaMason> thanks
<popey> careful though, it can remove more than you want
<popey> make sure to untick anything you dont want removed
<CaMason> running the janitor tool now
<screen-x> popey: find would be useful in here :)
<popey> oh, doh
<MooDoo> JamesTait: when is it this time?
<MooDoo> ah may
<popey> usually may/oct
<MooDoo> omg popey just popped up all large like :S
<popey> que?
<MooDoo> popey: you're on one of the rotating umages with jono :)
<MooDoo> s/images
<popey> heh, where?
<JamesTait> MooDoo: 9th - 13th May.
<MooDoo> http://uds.ubuntu.com/
<popey> oh yeah :)
<popey> scary pic
<MooDoo> popey: my first though was "That's POPEY" :)
<popey> lol
<popey> * Other community members are available
<MooDoo> i didn't even realise it was jono until i had another look lol
<screen-x> brilliant DOF in that pic, spot on.
<czajkowski> aloha
<JamesTait> I will be there this time. :)
<JamesTait> This pleases me.
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski arrived safetly?
<czajkowski> :)
<MooDoo> czajkowski: silly question, just checking though :)
<Pendulum> czajkowski: why are you wasting time on IRC? go fet your beer and chocolate :P
<czajkowski> I need to shower
<czajkowski> check mail
<czajkowski> and find patrick
<czajkowski> keith arrives later
<Pendulum> *fetch
<Pendulum> ah
<czajkowski> then jon
<MooDoo> then pub?
<czajkowski> yes
<czajkowski> need to watch rugby game
 * brobostigon hopes the right team wins, :)
<davisc> C'mon Wales ;-p
<brobostigon> davisc: :)
 * davisc is the only one in the office today wearing a rygby shirt
 * screen-x would be the only one in the office not cheering wales (if he was at work..)
<brobostigon> rugby*
<brobostigon> i support both though.
<MooDoo> typical, first match and i'm out watching peter kay :S
<brobostigon> MooDoo: get_iplayer to the rescue.
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm recording it, i'll watch it when i get home
<brobostigon> MooDoo: good plan.
<MooDoo> then again i need to watch alice part 2 as well :D
<nigelb> 52
<nigelb> gah
<adampc> Hi  all :)
<adampc> Long time no see..
<adampc> brobostigon:  ;)
<MooDoo> adampc: hello
<adampc> hehe MooDoo
<brobostigon> adampc: afternoonings :)
<adampc> Just got my Broadband back on lads :P
<MooDoo> yay
<adampc> Afternoonings hha
<adampc> 30Mbps :P wooo
<MooDoo> ooo nice, did you upgrade or new purchase?
<MooDoo> virgin right?
<adampc> new customer MooDoo yeah VM
<popey> \o/ virgin
<adampc> got the super hub lol
<MooDoo> cool, i can upgrade from my 20 for 15 quid or soemthing like that
<adampc> its nice, modem an router in one I can see it getting overloaded with alot of infomation but it is netgear so will let em off ;P
<adampc> nice, mines just 32 a month with out the phone line
<MooDoo> awesome, were on sky so only need phone and broadband
<daubers>  /o\ vm :(
<MooDoo> although that means bugger all if i don't make my vps's restart grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
<seeker> adampc: 30Mbps? Is that all? :P
<seeker> 35 Mbps ftw
 * daubers notes some missing "upto"'s
 * seeker doesn't 
<seeker> That's about my average
<daubers> I pay for 24 and average about 23, so I'm happy enough :)
<seeker> And about 7 Mbps upload too
<screen-x> I pay for up to 8, and get 1 and a bit.
<screen-x> fail-wales :p
<popey> \o/ 20Mb
<MooDoo> +1 popey
<bigcalm> Happy with that
<paradigmflow> how do you use the zoom feature? It says super+4, however nothing zooms using the windoze key+numpad 4?
 * bigcalm returns from exercise and collapses
<brobostigon> screen-x: i wouldnt say that over in #ubuntu-cym though,  :(
 * seeker remembers Popey getting 20Mbit Internet and wondering why he was only seeing 10Mbit, before realising he had a 10Mbit switch between him and the router
<popey> :)
<bigcalm> Haha
<screen-x> paradigmflow: mouse button 4 probably
<daubers> Was that actually a switch or was it a hub? I've not seen a 10Mb switch in quite some time
<popey> paradigmflow: mouse wheel
<screen-x> paradigmflow: which is usually scroll up or down
<popey> daubers: pedants -> that way
<daubers> popey: No, actually interested :) Found someone who had a gigabit hub the other day, confused the hell out of me
<MartijnVdS> Good parenting or bad parenting? http://cgi.ebay.com/Selling-8-Beyblades-Replace-DESTOYED-Bathtub-/280625155361?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4156900d21#ht_500wt_959
<paradigmflow> nope, nothing :$
<paradigmflow> it's a sentinel twin lazer gaming mouse
<popey> MartijnVdS: bad
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: indifferent
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: just look at the picture
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: can't be good
<popey> probably a joke
<popey> no idea what they told the kids to get them to react like that
<MooDoo> daubers: everything on my lan is gigabit apart from my 100mb switch :S
<MooDoo> doh!
<MartijnVdS> MooDoo: http://www.google.com/images?q=face+palm
<MooDoo> popey: any ideas on location for oggcamp11?
<MooDoo> MartijnVdS: oh i know :D
<popey> MooDoo: see my tweet?
<MooDoo> popey: yesh, looking at venues one?
<popey> ya
<MooDoo> just being nosey :)
<popey> seen a few
<popey> suggestions for more welcome as always
<MooDoo> popey: http://www.antenna.uk.com/ :D
<popey> we've already decided it's down south
<MooDoo> ah ok
<seeker> Down south \o/
<popey> \o/ indeed
<MartijnVdS> the deep south
<jpds> .au? Seems a bit far away.
<MooDoo> might try setting up something up here, a lot of people said they liked nottingham yesterday :D
<seeker> Deepest, darkest Hampshire?
<MartijnVdS> seeker: tip of Cornwall
<Myrtti> Littlehampton
<popey> \o/ south coast
<seeker> Hey Myrtti
<Myrtti> ohai
<screen-x> popey: south coast ++
<dutchie> popey: anywhere on the paddington - malvern train line is great for me :)
<bigcalm> Ah, fond memories
<HazRPG> afternoon \o
<MooDoo> HazRPG: hullo
<brobostigon> afternoonings HazRPG :)
<HazRPG> brobostigon: :)
<Myrtti> *sigh*
<Pendulum> hiya Myrtti
 * screen-x is getting bored of this now. 
<MooDoo> screen-x: bored of what?
<screen-x> MooDoo: flaky connection :(
<MooDoo> booo
<bigcalm> Rackspace dedicated server running Plesk Parallels - anybody know where vhost log files are kept?
<MooDoo> bigcalm: /var/www/vhosts?
<MooDoo> grep VHOST /etc/psa/psa.conf
<bigcalm> MooDoo: the vhosts are there, but not the log files
<MooDoo> at a guess
<bigcalm> Good idea
<screen-x> not directly related, but piwik \o/
<daubers> screen-x: Where's your connection going through?
<bigcalm>  within the vhost
<bigcalm> It's /statistics/logs
<bigcalm>  within the vhost
<MooDoo> cool
 * bigcalm slaps paste
 * MooDoo kisses google :)
<screen-x> daubers: I run a bip proxy on an old laptop at home, however my home ADSL connection is yoyoing today :(
<daubers> :(
<bigcalm> ARGH!
<jpds> bigcalm: Just stay calm.
<bigcalm> How do I get Tesco to stop spamming me? I've told them to not send me any emails 5 times now
<davisc> bigcalm: procmail > /dev/null
<daubers> bigcalm: Bounce it back to them?
<bigcalm> Heh
 * daubers despairs at the 30 files of test data that now needs to be analysed
<Azelphur> just tried ticking enable ipv6 on my dd-wrt router, it didn't work :-(
<iulian> bigcalm: 6 might be your lucky number. ;)
<screen-x> Azelphur: does your ISP provide native ip6, or are you using a tunnel?
<Azelphur> My ISP has apparently been providing it native for years
<Azelphur> http://noc.enta.net/ipv6-over-xdsl/
<screen-x> Azelphur: could you use a packet sniffer on the external interface, and see if any RAs are coming in?
<Azelphur> screen-x: nah, as I said to my brother I'm not particularly hyped over IPv6
<Azelphur> if it doesn't work with a simple button press I'm too lazy :P
<jpds> Azelphur: Call enta? ... . Profit?
<Azelphur> probably switching away from enta soon too
<jpds> You're doing it wrong for future internets.
<Azelphur> nope, the developers are doing it wrong for future internets
 * brobostigon would kill for native ipv6, and has the hw to do it.
<Azelphur> if I can't press a button and have it enabled, it's not going to work over all anyway
<jpds> brobostigon: Sounds a bit extreme.
<screen-x> Azelphur: we'll have to use IPv6 once ISPs start nating ADSL IPv4 addresses.
<Azelphur> yea
<Azelphur> if it becomes an issue I'll obviously be more interested :)
<brobostigon> jpds: iwould kill, just an expression.
<brobostigon> Azelphur: its anissue already.
<Azelphur> *shrug* everything works for now
<brobostigon> it wont for long though.
<Azelphur> when my ISP announces "IPv6 or NAT"
<Azelphur> then it'll be an issue ;)
<Azelphur> then I'll be sitting down spending hours and calling up the ISP to try and get it working
<Azelphur> xD
<brobostigon> you dont need NAT in ipv6, its redundant,
<Azelphur> brobostigon: but I like my nat
<Azelphur> why don't you need a NAT in ipv6?
<directhex> choo choo
<Azelphur> hehe
<directhex> Azelphur, because every human can have billions of IPs without risk of using them all up
<Azelphur> yea I understand that part
<screen-x> Azelphur: enough public addresses, so dont need to reuse private space
<jpds> Azelphur: Your homework for today, read: http://www.ja.net/documents/publications/technical-guides/ipv6-tech-guide-for-web.pdf
<brobostigon> :)
<Azelphur> but a NAT is a important security feature for the web
<screen-x> no
<Azelphur> yup :o
<Azelphur> it saves all the windows noobs from remote exploits xD
<brobostigon> Azelphur: i would justsetup a decent firewall.
<Azelphur> brobostigon: that would work
<brobostigon> Azelphur: and getrid of nat at the same time, :)
<Azelphur> :)
<jpds> Azelphur: Windows has the IPv6 privacy extensions enabled by default.
<Azelphur> jpds: windows also doesn't have any security
<Azelphur> :P
<Azelphur> a firewall to block incoming connections is pretty essential to a windows machine imo
<screen-x> Azelphur:  it only takes one line of iptables to drop all new incoming connections, which gets you the same level of protection as nat.
<Azelphur> yea, Linux is fine
<Azelphur> it's Windows I'm laughing at
<AlanBell> Azelphur: no, you do the iptables on the router
<screen-x> AlanBell: yep
<popey> no, you press the "make it work" button on the firewall
<Azelphur> (16:56:38) brobostigon: Azelphur: i would justsetup a decent firewall. (16:56:46) Azelphur: brobostigon: that would work
<popey> normal humans dont use iptables
<Azelphur> we had this discussion already :D
<AlanBell> that too
<popey> exactly
<screen-x> yes, which hopefully does some iptables underneath
<popey> so stop moaning :)
<Azelphur> hehe
 * screen-x writes iptables scripts, so either isnt normal or isnt human
<Azelphur> ^ both
<screen-x> most annoying things about osx so far: no iptables and no "ip" command.
 * screen-x cant be bothered to learn pf
 * jpds sees an increasing amount of laziness reported in this channel.
<daubers> jpds: I'd argue against that.... but can't be bothered
 * screen-x reads man 8 ipfw
<daubers> Azelphur: a firewall woul do that
 * AlanBell has the map on beta.ubuntu-uk.org working
<popey> yay
<brobostigon> cool
<AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
<AlanBell> you *have* to click the search link to the right of geographical position before submitting
 * AlanBell is going to change that a bit
<bigcalm> What's with the odd tab index?
<bigcalm> Tab from Subtitle goes to e-mail
<bigcalm> Skipping Description
 * bigcalm awaits moderation
<AlanBell> bigcalm: oops, can you try again
<AlanBell> you put a pin on the map called "test map", which I just deleted and replace with one called "ubuntu uk"
<bigcalm> :)
<bigcalm> You are posting comments too quickly. Slow down.
<bigcalm> ...
<bigcalm> Did my submission not work?
<AlanBell> hmm, no, just have the first one
<AlanBell> I trashed your last one so it should let you post again
<AlanBell> there is a standard wordpress flooding filter that you tripped
<bigcalm> Nope, stopped me again
<AlanBell> bother
<AlanBell> timezones and things look right
<bigcalm> No worries :)
<bigcalm> http://www.angryflower.com/revolt.html # topical :)
<dutchie> http://i.imgur.com/IoNRk.jpg
 * davisc debates an intrepid to lucid upgrade
<dwatkins> interesting, dutchie
<jacobw> evening channel
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> evening MartijnVdS
<DJones> Good evening and welcome to the weekend
<brobostigon> :)
 * MartijnVdS listens to She & Him on vinyl
 * DJones wonders if webpigeon_laptop needs faster typing skills to identify to login to freenode
 * jacobw has a shiny new Nexus S
<MartijnVdS> DJones: or better client config
<webpigeon_laptop> DJones, nickserv is in league with my toaster, nether like me :P
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon_laptop: irssi? :)
<MartijnVdS> webpigeon_laptop: I have a piece of irssi config that makes talking to nickserv obsolete :)
<MartijnVdS> (it works by supplying a username/password to the irc server on connect)
<DJones> webpigeon_laptop: :)
<webpigeon_laptop> MartijnVdS, xchat, it just fails to id on login sometimes :P
<MartijnVdS> it just fails :P
<webpigeon_laptop> My quassel deamon works better, I just don't have quassel client on this mashine :P
<MartijnVdS> quassel, isn't that the routing software/
<webpigeon_laptop> It's an irc server-client setup
<webpigeon_laptop> The server runs on this mashine, the clients run on my laptop
<webpigeon_laptop> it's just a pain to make it work over ssh (have to forward the port with -L first :|)
<DJones> webpigeon_laptop: I use irssi & have no problem logging in  identifying
<webpigeon_laptop> DJones, I used to use irssi but haven't in ages, the key bindings don't agree with me :P
<DJones> same as you, i've got it running on a server inside screen & connect with ssh
<webpigeon_laptop> My current setup is freenode->quassel-core->quassel-client || freenode->xchat
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> confused it with quagga :)
<webpigeon_laptop> :)
<MartijnVdS> oh well, qua*
<MartijnVdS> quiet night here?
<MartijnVdS> s/night/evening
<DJones> Yep, people are probably in the pub/eating tea/collecting eggs
<MartijnVdS> collecting eggs? Easter isn't for another 2 months at least
<dwatkins> The shops already have a bunch of eggs anyways
<DJones> Tell that to AlanBell
 * AlanBell has eggs
<Baikonur> i just had fajitas
<ali1234> is the easter bunny supposed to actually *lay* those eggs, or does it just deliver them? if so, where do they come from?
<ali1234> i mean santa has a proper backstory that is internally consistent but this easter bunny stuff just seems like it was thrown together
<Baikonur> bunny is a symbol for fertility
<Baikonur> as are eggs
<brobostigon> ali1234: as a childrens story, told to children, i dont think its meant to be analised  logically like that.
<Baikonur> it's a pagan fertility festival
<DJones> ali1234: http://i.abimg.net/images/answers/41746/2547779/bunnyhen.jpg?1296775510a
<DJones> I think that explains a lot
<popey> AlanBell: you always have eggs!
<popey> I had a wrap, which contained chicken!
<popey> (no eggs were harmed in the making of my wrap)
 * DJones is eating a chicken pie
<jacobw> (but a chicken was)
<popey> indeed
<sgeh> hi
<sgeh> is there an ubuntu channel for arabs?
<DJones> !ar
<lubotu3> La comunidad local de Argentina se puede encontrar en #ubuntu-ar y en su canal de offtopic: #ubuntu-ar-cafe
<AlanBell> nope!
<Azelphur> haha
<DJones> Wrong one
<AlanBell> not there
<DJones> !arabic
<lubotu3> For Arabic language support, please : /join #ubuntu-arabic : ÙÙØ­ØµÙÙ Ø¹ÙÙ Ø§ÙØ¯Ø¹Ù Ø¨Ø§ÙÙØºØ© Ø§ÙØ¹Ø±Ø¨ÙØ©
<sgeh> interesting
<sgeh> tanks
<DJones> I wonder how somebody looking for an arabic ubuntu channel would join -uk? while using a shell
<popey> maybe they are british?
<popey> just a guess :)
<DJones> True
<MartijnVdS> DJones: because the UK is almost an arab state!</##politics> :P
<popey> o_O
<MartijnVdS> popey: Sorry, Wilders was in the news again
<popey> :)
<adampc> Loving the homepage #ubuntu-uk
<adampc> ;)
<adampc> Hi guys I have a problem upgrading to 10.10 :/ - Here is a screenshot of what it said when I tryed upgraded: http://i51.tinypic.com/2wqqqgm.png
<adampc> Any help would be great, tanks.
<adampc> upgrading*
<MartijnVdS> adampc: did you do any of the suggested things that might have caused it?
<SuperMatt> well it looks like you have an issue setting new software channels, so I would assume that maybe it's having difficulty with your /etc/apt/sources file
<SuperMatt> remove anything in there that isn't part of a default install
<adampc> Thanks guys :)
<popey> no point
<popey> the upgrade does that anyway
<dogmatic69> could someone please help me with a ppa error, its driving me mad http://bin.cakephp.org/view/839219722
<brobostigon> dogmatic69: i do believe the arduino  IDe is now inthe mainrepos, and you dont need a ppa anymore, i maybe wrong though.
<brobostigon> !info arduino
<lubotu3> arduino (source: arduino): AVR development board IDE and built-in libraries. In component universe, is optional. Version 0018+dfsg-4 (maverick), package size 1398 kB, installed size 3780 kB
<brobostigon> spoton,
<dogmatic69> im running it off git
<dogmatic69> latest is 22 and i got an uno, so 18 does nothing
<popey> dogmatic69: that ppa doesnt contain anything for maverick
<popey> http://ppa.launchpad.net/arduino-ubuntu-team/ppa/ubuntu/dists/
<dogmatic69> uno was released a few weeks back
<popey> so you need to remove those lines from your sources
<dogmatic69> i think it was added somehow.. need to 'remove' it
<dogmatic69> i just installed ppa-purge but no dice
<brobostigon> sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.lst
<brobostigon> gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.lst
<brobostigon> apt-get update
<madman2021> hHey
<popey> depends which sources file its in brobostigon
<madman2021> Anyone care to help me with a LITTLE php ?
<brobostigon> popey: good point, i am preuming.
<popey> could be in /etc/apt/sources.list or in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/*
<brobostigon> true, yes.
<dogmatic69> popey: should i just rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/arduino-ubuntu-team-ppa-maverick.list
<dogmatic69> nothing in the first option
<popey> yes
<dogmatic69> cool
<brobostigon> nos da everyone, sleep well.
<dogmatic69> \o/ think its working
<dogmatic69> thanks popey / brobostigon
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> np
<dogmatic69> where are you guys btw?
<popey> I'm in farnborough
<brobostigon> north oxfordshire.
<brobostigon> banbury,
<dogmatic69> far away then
<dogmatic69> im in bham
<brobostigon> iamnot faroff then.
<brobostigon> me tired,
<brobostigon> good night all, sleepwell.
<dogmatic69> could anyone tell me if this is a decent setup to start with...
<dogmatic69> i got ssh only login on my server, pw is disabled and rules in the iptables to ban with 4 bad tries in 60 seconds
<dogmatic69> is there more i can do to make it better, or is that ok?
<dutchie> dogmatic69: you can automate the iptables banning with fail2ban and/or denyhosts
<dogmatic69> dutchie: its automatic atm, if you try login 4 times within 60 seconds you are banned
<dutchie> yeah, but fail2ban/denyhosts require no iptables knowledge :)
<dogmatic69> just looking through the logs, ive had about 20 attempts in total over 5 days
<dutchie> root login disabled?
<dogmatic69> think so
<dogmatic69> i have something like this setup
<dogmatic69> sudo iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 22 -m state --state NEW -m recent --set --name SSH
<dogmatic69> sudo iptables -A INPUT -i eth0 -p tcp --dport 22 -m state --state NEW -m recent --update --seconds 60 --hitcount 8 --rttl --name SSH -j DROP
<dogmatic69> but --hitcount 4
<dutchie> if you want to be more paranoid, move ssh off port 22
<dutchie> i have found that is more bother than it is worth though
<zleap> you could simply open up a different port on the router and then port forward that to port 22 on the computer you are sshing in to
<dogmatic69> o.o
<dogmatic69> im a noob, that sounds like chines :D
<zleap> ssh -o port number iirc
<zleap> ssh -p port number iirc
<zleap> 2nd one sorry
<dogmatic69> ok, but then all my ssh aliases will be broken?
<dutchie> use .ssh/config
<zleap> ah
<dogmatic69> i got things in config now
<dogmatic69> would i just add :port then?
<dutchie> Port 1234
<dutchie> or whatever you choose
<dogmatic69> i need to figure out this port stuff, wanna get my home box opened to the net so i can access it from work
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: I started to try and understand iptables, then I discovered shorewall.
<zleap> i just installed open ssh server then configured my routher to point to the rioght network ip addy and it works i can ssh from netbook to my computer at hpome of its on
<dogmatic69> i can ssh if im on the wifi, but not from external
<dogmatic69> got ssh server running
<zleap> you need to config the routher then
<zleap> router
<dogmatic69> but when i tried to do the router i broke it
<dogmatic69> :/
<dogmatic69> redirect loops and stuff
<NativeAngels> Hello
<dogmatic69> o/
<NativeAngels> Has anyone had experience of dell poweredge servers
<dogmatic69> NativeAngels: more specific questions will get you some help
<dutchie> though not necessarily, it is nearly midnight on a friday night
<dutchie> people might have lives!
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-05
<ball> Is it difficult to bridge between a wireless Ethernet (802.11g or 11n) and wired (100baseTX) on Ubuntu?
<HazRPG> ball: I've always wondered about that one too... I use to do it in windows all the time, which was handy for my xbox when I use to use it
<shauno> it shouldn't be.  I've bridged between 3g & ethernet a few times, not too messy
<ball> HazRPG: the only computer in our house that's useable (because it has a network connection) is a very broken old Xubuntu laptop.
<ball> HazRPG: I neeed to get something running tonight and if I have to install Ubuntu on a desktop for that to happen, I will.
<shauno> I dunno if the network widget does it tho, I did it the old-fashioned way
<shauno> thinking about it, it was a dhcp server, caching name server, ip_forward & something involving masquerade in iptables.  maybe not as straight forward as I remembered
<ball> shauno: I'm not afraid of the command line.
<shauno> altho a lot of that was because the other machine I was trying to use was a brain-dead embedded firmware, so I needed dhcp & dns because there was no other way to configure it
<ball> If I bridge between the two LANs, the router should be able to serve DHCP even to the wired devices.
<shauno> I know it sounds like a rtfm, but http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/Masquerading-Simple-HOWTO.html#SUMMARY
<ball> I don't want or need NAT
<HazRPG> think this is more what ball is trying to do: http://ubuntuforums.org/archive/index.php/t-632062.html
<shauno> never heard of bridge-utils, that may be easier :)
<shauno> briding is nat tho; it's just snat instead of what you're used to
<HazRPG> or possibly this: http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/debian-26/howto-bridge-wireless-and-wired-network-interfaces-369455/
<ball> What is "snat"?
<HazRPG> that last one seems easier to do
<HazRPG> Secure/Source NAT
<shauno> routing multiple addresses on one interface to multiple on another
<HazRPG> sometimes the S can also mean Stateful
<HazRPG> depends who you ask :/
<shauno> not sure what the scheme is actually called, but iptables calls it snat :)
<HazRPG> think cisco classify SNAT as Stateful NAT
<ball> shauno: That sounds like layer 3 stuff
<shauno> it's many-to-many instead of one-to-many
<ball> I'm talking about simple Ethernet bridging
<HazRPG> pretty much
<HazRPG> check the 2nd link I put ball, does bridging in a few commands
<ball> HazRPG: Thanks, I'll try that.
<shauno> it's only simple because things shrink wrap it .. it's all the same to the kernel :)
<shauno> time to head off.  good luck with that, should be pretty straight forward in most tools
<ball> shauno: erm... no.
<HazRPG> shauno: catch ya later dude
<HazRPG> ball: apparently there is a gui way to do it...
<HazRPG> http://www.uluga.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1206629
<HazRPG> last post
<HazRPG> I've seen that tick box a thousand times, but never thought it was the way to bridge connections...
<HazRPG> hope that solves it dude
<ball> HazRPG: Thanks.  I may have to resort to that.
<HazRPG> you make it sound like the gui one is bad :P
<HazRPG> guessing xubuntu doesn't include network-manager
 * HazRPG goes in search of snacks, "brb"
<HazRPG> ball: let me know how it goes :)
<Myrtti> xubu does come with nm
 * ball tinkers
 * MartijnVdS listens to Magnetic Fields
<kaushal> Hi
<kaushal> can someone please guide me about https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2011-February/239556.html ?
<MartijnVdS> what's the problem?
<MartijnVdS> I only see hardware listingsa
<MartijnVdS> -a
<MartijnVdS> kaushal:
<phonex01> need help here
<phonex01> i'm trying to install tor-proxy and i have this error ? W: Failed to fetch http://deb.torproject.org/torproject.org/dists/maverick/Release.gpg  Got a single header line over 360 chars
<phonex01> so whats the problem ??
<kaushal> MartijnVdS: please give me a moment
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> morning
<kvarley> what gallery managers do you use?
<kvarley> (f-spot, shotwell, picasa, etc)
<SuperMatt> I don't use any
<SuperMatt> though I know I should
<kvarley> I've always just used nautilus with thumbnails and made my own file structure but looking for one for a friend which is easy to use and can handle existing folder structure
<MartijnVdS> I use shotwell
<MartijnVdS> used to use f-spot before it turned into a huge memory eater
<MartijnVdS> also, shotwell is fsat
<MartijnVdS> cool
<MartijnVdS> my DSL modem is broken... I only have ipv6 :)
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> there's v4 :)
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: lol
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: I could get my (G)mail, I could get facebook, I could get to my VPS (irc)
<nigelb> Neat
<nigelb> I wonder if my provider started v6 support
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: never if you don't ask them ;)
<MartijnVdS> (really, ask them.. "lack of consumer demand" is one of the reasons cited for not doing it)
<nigelb> I'll bug them when I pay the bill ;)
 * MartijnVdS works for his ISP, so no bill there ;)
<nigelb> hehehe
<dwatkins> Good morning Ubuntu fans :)
<nigelb> Never say that in #ubuntu-uk.  its always minecraft fans here :p
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: #ubuntu-uk-minecraft
<dwatkins> I did consider the possibility if might be misinterpretted, nigelb - hence the smile
<dwatkins> Sadly my main Ubuntu machine is currently in storage, so I have to put up with running virtual machines for the moment.
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: I'm beign pulled more and more into minecraft.  Must resist.
 * dwatkins is tempted to play Sim City 2000 again
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: don't do it! you have so much else to live for!
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: Sim City 2000, wooo :)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I have SC4 on my Windows box (steam :)
<MartijnVdS> wow
<MartijnVdS> Debian is actually releasing
<nigelb> Its known to happen once in 2 years
<nigelb> :-P
<MartijnVdS> nigelb: it's still surprising when it does
<dwatkins> I guess they finally decided things are stable enough.
<nigelb> MartijnVdS: oldstable is now lenny :D
<MartijnVdS> great
<MartijnVdS> I'll be helpdesking my colleagues on Monday 8-)
<MartijnVdS> all buildscripts will fail
 * nigelb watching @debian
<Mr-Woof> hi all
<dwatkins> Debian on Twitter, nigelb?
<Mr-Woof> what do recommend as an alternative to itunes on ubuntu? Ideally with a large podcast library like itunes
<nigelb> dwatkins: yup
<bigcalm> Sleepy yawn
<bigcalm> Morning peeps
<MartijnVdS> Mr-Woof: rhythmbox and banshee are both itunes alternatives
<MartijnVdS> Mr-Woof: banshee comes with miro-guide, which contains lots of podcasts
<Mr-Woof> cool, I'll check it out now :-)
<MartijnVdS> Mr-Woof: but you can always subscribe to podcasts (also using rhythmbox) through a podcasts's website
<Mr-Woof> yeah I know, I was hoping for a large library as I'm a bit lazy :P
<MartijnVdS> well, miro guide :)
<Mr-Woof> lol :)
<popey> morning all!
<dwatkins> hey popey :)
<czajkowski> aloha
<dwatkins> morning czajkowski :)
<czajkowski> dwatkins: howdy
<czajkowski> where you ?
 * dwatkins wonders if there's a word missing there and whether that was directed at him 
<czajkowski> dwatkins: ae you at fosdem
<czajkowski> if so where are you
<dwatkins> oh right, no I am at home
<czajkowski> ahh pook
<dwatkins> I look forward to attending someday when I am actually a developer :)
<MartijnVdS> debian n-m is still as long as their release cycle? :P
<cps> greetings, mentlegen
<AlanBell> fosdem does seem to be lots of people http://identi.ca/attachment/38591073
<MartijnVdS> wow
<MartijnVdS> that's more than usual
<AlanBell> that was for Eben Moglen's keynote
<AlanBell> I would be tempted to see that
<AlanBell> not really found any other compelling reason to go there though
<dwatkins> ooh, I'd very much like to see that, AlanBell ... *runs to the search engine*
<MartijnVdS> Eben Moglen.. Stallman 2.0? :)
<AlanBell> Stallman's lawyer
<AlanBell> like stallman, but better dressed
<AlanBell> and with sensible hair
<MartijnVdS> "I'm not coming, I'm sending my lawyer"
<AlanBell> Moglen is great
<shauno> MartijnVdS: that'd be the best sickday ever
 * cps wonders why youtube has dropped support for .ogv's all of a sudden
<MartijnVdS> is he less "FREE SOFTWARE OR DEATH"?
<MartijnVdS> cps: it wants you to use webm ;)
<cps> MartijnVdS: I used MPEG4 >_<
<MartijnVdS> cps: freedom-hater!
<cps> I know =(
<cps> kdenlive \o/
<MartijnVdS> kdwhat?
<cps> kdenlive
<MartijnVdS> what is it
<cps> it's a non-linear video editor
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> pitivi for kde-weirdos ;)
<AlanBell> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKxzK9xtSXM&feature=related
<cps> pitivi is actually more rubbish than kdenlive
<cps> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJC3VVC8vj0
<cps> I tried to upload that video as an ogv
<cps> but it showed a green screen
<cps> yes, I'm a rail enthusiast lol
<cps> hey adampc :)
<MartijnVdS> "trainspotter"
<adampc> hey cps :)
<cps> MartijnVdS: Yes, I'm a trainspotter. :p
<dutchie> "whatcha gonna do about it"
<popey> cps: the green screen isnt pitivi, its the oggencoder bug
<popey> cps: also, "TRAINS!"
<popey> :)
* AlanBell changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday February 10th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Chickens and minecraft and trains
<MartijnVdS> popey: Is that a trainspotting zombie?
<popey> heh
<czajkowski> no CAKE in the topic
<czajkowski> so wrong
<cps> ok
<cps> my computer is probably showing signs that it's becoming unstable
<cps> I've been able to run it problem-free until a couple of days ago
<cps> ever since then it's been crashing at a random time
<cps> I don't know what's causing the shenanigans. is there such a terminal command that can be used to diagnose constant system crashes?
* czajkowski changed the topic of #ubuntu-uk to: Welcome to #ubuntu-uk! http://ubuntu-uk.org | This channel is publicly archived: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Mailing List: http://tinyurl.com/uukml | Support Guidelines - http://tinyurl.com/uuksupport | Meeting Thursday February 10th 21:00 GMT in #ubuntu-uk-meeting http://tinyurl.com/uukmeet | \o/ Chickens and minecraft and trains and CAKE
<dwatkins> cat /var/log/messages
<MartijnVdS> and ponies
<MartijnVdS> never forget
<cps> chickens
<cps> MINECRAFT
<cps> TRAINS
<cps> dwatkins: uh, /var/log/messages has 5873 lines
<cps> dunno if someone would be willing to read it all? haha
<czajkowski> mr. walker is a bit broken
<AlanBell> oh dear
<czajkowski> but he has shoes this time and not flip flops
<czajkowski> so we're doing well
<AlanBell> did he go to delirium?
<czajkowski> he did indeed
<danfish> 9
<AlanBell> 8
<brobostigon> afternoonings everyone.
<danfish> 7 6 5 4 3 2 1 ....BOOM!!
<brobostigon> ouch. :(
<danfish> o/
 * brobostigon looks at his head, and finds schrapnal.
<cps> afternoon brobostigon :)
 * danfish is about to explode from MSG overload at Chinese New Year last nite
<brobostigon> afternoonings cps :)
 * cps applies local anaesthetic to brobostigon's head and removes the shrapnel, quickly patching up the blood
<AlanBell> danfish: hope you had some vegetable side orders
 * brobostigon thanks cps :)
<cps> no probs brobostigon :)
<danfish> hah - do prawns count?
<AlanBell> yeah, I would say prawns are practically a vegetable
 * brobostigon asks the UN to take the remaining bombs off danfish, for everyones safety.
<cps> prawns? vegetables?! no wai!
 * danfish tosses his remaining bombs onto the minecraft map
<brobostigon> lol
<dutchie> Recommendations for (decent) in-ear headphone shops on the high street? (preferably ones with a branch in oxford...)
<kvarley> dutchie: Skullcandy?
<dutchie> but where to buy from?
<dutchie> hmv? argos? specialist sound-y place?
<kvarley> HMV used to have them
<kvarley> Might be able to find them in txmaxx if you're lucky
<kvarley> I haven't got any, just what I hear is good
<terran> HMV, John Lewis
<dutchie> there is neither a t k maxx nor a john lewis in oxford city centre according to google maps
<dutchie> so i will look in argos and hmv i think
<danfish> dutchie: maplin
<dutchie> argh, that's all the way out in botley
<danfish> make an afternoon of it ;)
<dutchie> i already have to make an afternoon of going to the station
<dutchie> and thence on to kidderminster
<czajkowski> can I just say. I hate public speaking with a passion
 * Pendulum hugs czajkowski 
<directhex> czajkowski, rum helps
<brobostigon> get drunk, give presentation while drunk. hmm.
<directhex> brobostigon, i had rum to fuel me last year
<brobostigon> directhex: hmm. ok.
<directhex> never heard of dutch courage?
<brobostigon> directhex: i tend to go for a gin and tonic myself.
<brobostigon> yes.
<directhex> spent â¬11.60 a shot on some rum last night
<brobostigon> ouch.
<directhex> 11y aged cuban
<brobostigon> yummy,
<AlanBell> czajkowski: well done
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> AlanBell: I've tweeted the 2 UK summit/forums
<czajkowski> can you RT
<alexMocanu> Hello everybody!
<BigRedS> hello!
<AlanBell> czajkowski: already retweeted them
<czajkowski> thanks
<cps> mmm
<cps> lorne sausage buttie \o/
<dwatkins> cps: I know it's probably quite long, but the most recent entries, or the ones just before the crash may explain it further.
<cps> dwatkins: from what I see the most recent ones are all about my wireless card :/
<cps> one such entry reads: Feb  5 11:50:19 InterCity-125 kernel: [  403.805129] [UFW BLOCK] IN=wlan0 OUT= MAC=d8:5d:4c:9c:ae:76:00:1f:9f:41:47:33:08:00 SRC=74.114.14.182 DST=192.168.1.81 LEN=68 TOS=0x00 PREC=0x00 TTL=45 ID=20055 DF PROTO=TCP SPT=9339 DPT=54355 WINDOW=91 RES=0x00 ACK PSH URGP=0
 * cps admits he should've pastebinned that
<dwatkins> cps: that could be a red herring, it's a bit of a dark art understanding the messagelog in my experience
<dwatkins> You could also check dmesg, but that's just stuff since the last boot - I think it copies old instances of this to /var/log/dmesg.[123] though
<dwatkins> Sadly diagnosing linux isn't as simple as it might be.
<cps> dwatkins: indeed
<brobostigon> is ayone familier with setPwmFrequency onthe arduino, it giving me errors when i try and use it according to http://www.arduino.cc/playground/Code/PwmFrequency. any ideas please, i am stuck.
<ali1234> show code?
<brobostigon> http://pastebin.com/GuHR1cHx
<ali1234> 300 isn't a valid divisor
<ali1234> "The divisors available on pins 5, 6, 9 and 10 are: 1, 8, 64, 256, and 1024. "
<ali1234> "The divisors available on pins 3 and 11 are: 1, 8, 32, 64, 128, 256, and 1024. "
<brobostigon> 256 will be the nearest then.
<ali1234> yeah
<brobostigon> as we need 100hz output.
<ali1234> if you need a specific timing you have to run the avr at a different clock rate
<brobostigon> ali1234: i used 256, and its still giving me the same errors.
<ali1234> what error
<brobostigon> setpwmfrequency was not declared in this scope
<brobostigon> in function 'void look()';
<ali1234> i don't think it is part of arduino standard library
<brobostigon> it doesnt say what i need to add.
<Neoti> hey people i have a problem with my number key pad, in that it does not work... i can press numlock and thebenter key on it but the numbers do not work , on the main keyboard the numbers do work ... any ideas ?
<AlanBell> Neoti: laptop?
<Neoti> nope desktop
<AlanBell> Neoti: do you have an FN key or something which makes them work?
<Neoti> nope.
<ali1234> brobostigon: it's a code sample, you are supposed to copy paste the whole thing i guess
<Neoti> its just a bog standard qwerty keyboard
<ali1234> btw, pwm isn't meant for function generation
<AlanBell> can you prove the keyboard works?
<ali1234> and you can get much closer to 100hz using a phase accumulator
<Neoti> yes i just booted up my windows computer and the keys defo work ... just on my ubuntu system they dont for some reason
<ali1234> or just a built in timer
<brobostigon> ali1234: hmm, i see.
<ali1234> why do you actually need 100hz?
<ali1234> i suggest you hit the avr docs instead of messing around with avr library
<ali1234> i mean arduino library
<ali1234> there is nothing complex about avr chips, you do not need a library to program them
<brobostigon> ali1234: its for something my dad is doing, and he says he wants 100hz output from the pwm, idont understand the hydraulics involved.
<ali1234> 100hz... pwm
<brobostigon> apparently.
<ali1234> well if it is to be used as pwm then frequency accuracy probably doesn't matter too much
<Neoti> AlanBell: fixed it http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4444700&postcount=5
<ali1234> but if you wanted a clean 100hz signal for some reason pwm is not a good choice
<Neoti> YEY \0/
<AlanBell> Neoti: cool
<brobostigon> ali1234: ok, i dont understand it, i will tell my dad though,what you suggest.
<ali1234> really depends what you are going to do with the 100hz
<brobostigon> not a clue,
 * brobostigon goes to ask more questions,of his dad.
 * cps yawns
<cps> i hate not being able to sleep at night
<cps> ._.
<dwatkins> Sounds annoying, cps, yeah.
<bigcalm> It is I
<danfish> hello I
<bigcalm> Hello D
<danfish> ibigcalm <-- now steve jobs will be after you :D
<bigcalm> Fesk
 * bigcalm changes his name to "ain"
<bigcalm> Meld isn't proving very useful
<bigcalm> If thinks that 2 files are completely different
<bigcalm> I wonder if winmerg works in wine
<bigcalm> It does. Yay :)
<bigcalm> Lunch time!
<alexMocanu> anyone at the University of Birmingham here? :)
<MartijnVdS> They have a university in Birmingham?! ;)
<brobostigon> yes.
<AlanBell> hi alexMocanu
<AlanBell> there are people from universities and people from birmingham, not sure if there is anyone in the intersection of these sets here now
<AlanBell> apart from you presumably
<Irwell> brum :D
<alexMocanu> MartijnVdS there are quite a few universities in Brum :D
<Irwell> does anyone know where i can get notifyosdconfig from?
<AlanBell> http://cakecentral.com//gallery/1793143
<MartijnVdS> that's not cat6 ;)
<nimrod_52> Afternoon all
<czajkowski> jo shields u is up talking on Mono with Ubuntu and debian
<nimrod_52> anyone free to give me initial setup advice for X-chat???
<penguin42> AlanBell: Hehe
<nimrod_52> I was trying to add a network by preferences / network /add but the server details just do not save when added - not sure of my error???
<nimrod_52> I put in irc.servername.com but it didn't take
<nimrod_52> .... "Is there anybody out there ...?
<brobostigon> not a clue, myself, never used xchat.
<nimrod_52> thanks brob
<brobostigon> i use irssi.
<czajkowski> way too many cats in his talk
<nimrod_52> tried empathy but unable to connect on that apparently because server uses "nickserve" hence installed x-chat
<brobostigon> nickserv*
<brobostigon> yes, thats one of freenode's services deamons.
<nimrod_52> irssi is that suitable for a nuby??
<brobostigon> nimrod_52: its a cli irc client,
<nimrod_52> or other irc recommendation?
<brobostigon> !info quassel
<lubotu3> quassel (source: quassel): KDE/Qt-based IRC client. In component main, is optional. Version 0.7.1-0ubuntu1 (maverick), package size 775 kB, installed size 2764 kB
<nimrod_52> thanks will try quassel - have it installed but gave up previously when I meesed up with over restrictive firewall settings
<nimrod_52> cheers
<brobostigon> :)
<nimrod_52>  going off to attempt setup - thanks
<brobostigon> welcome.
 * MartijnVdS has one nearly-empty kitchen
<dwatkins> are you just doing the washing-up or actually taking the kitchen out, MartijnVdS?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I've removed the cabinets and appliances, they're coming to take the tiles off on Wednesday
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: then re-route water, electricity, etc.
<MartijnVdS> and then wait a week for the plaster to dry
<MartijnVdS> and THEN they're going to put in the new kitchen :)
<dwatkins> sounds pretty fundamental, MartijnVdS - fitting an entirely new kitchen, then?
<MartijnVdS> yeah
<MartijnVdS> IKEA's kitchen service++
<dwatkins> interesting, I would be interested to know how it all goes
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I clicked it together in the IKEA webapp, then went to the store and checked everything with an IKEAn
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: then they sent over a guy to check that the measurements I made were correct
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: then you get a quote for everything (removing + fitting new kitchen + anything else you want done)
<MartijnVdS> then you sign it, and off you go
<dogmatic69> random poll... whats your thoughts on something like http://www.aber.ac.uk/en/undergrad/courses/compsci/open-source-computing/
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: sounds pretty well organised
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: I'd probably really enjoy that course, but my only concern might be if I wanted a programming job afterwards, people might be concerned I'd not done any development within a company
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: yeah, and less risk of kitchen dealer going bust before actually delivering a kitchen (that used to be an epidemic here in .nl)
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: i got 5+ years experience so not to worried about that
<ali1234> java programming, web programming, dbms..... sounds pretty lame to me
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: in that case, great :D
<dogmatic69> the core is C++
<dwatkins> I'm reading a book on C++ right now, can't really give up my job to do a degree in it
<dogmatic69> plus learning java would be cool for android which i would like
<ali1234> why not just do computer science?
<dwatkins> http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html if you're curious
<dwatkins> Java and C++ have a lot of similarities. I think I'd prefer to learn them separately to avoid confusion.
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: cool, ive been giving c a go, with arduino
<ali1234> seems like it's just core compsci with maybe 1 or 2 optional courses about "open source"
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: I'm looking forward to my Arduino being delivered :)
<dogmatic69> :)
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: after you done the blinking led got something more fun for you
<dwatkins> oh yes, dogmatic69?
<dwatkins> A blinking LED that uses a sensor to blink at different rates depending on the ambient temperature? ;)
<dogmatic69> https://github.com/dogmatic69/arduino-ohm-meter/blob/master/ohm_meter.pde
<dwatkins> ooh, excellent - thanks dogmatic69
<MartijnVdS> Ohmmmmm
<dogmatic69> got a few commits local, will push them soon
<dwatkins> I remember running an app on an SGI machine which blinked the power LED like a heartbeat - the more load on the CPU, the faster it blinked :D
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: also got a cap meter :)
<dwatkins> For measuring capacitance?
<dogmatic69> yip
<dogmatic69> with a ne555 timer
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: it mentions display - where is the output sent to?
<dwatkins> the serial port as text?
<dogmatic69> no, 16x2 lcd
<dwatkins> oh an LCD....
<dogmatic69> you should get one
<dwatkins> yeah, I plan to in the next order
<dogmatic69> arduino Serial + ubuntu is pants
<dogmatic69> its 10 quid for one
<dwatkins> We ordered from adafruit, I think they sell one, but I'll probably just get one locally in the UK
 * suprengr is sad... used 'hibernate' on 10.04 for first time today - when I got home and pressed power button... Ububtu started from normal startup.  boo! hiss!
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: coolcomponents are great
<dwatkins> thanks dogmatic69
<dogmatic69> good prices, quick delivery, reasonable variety
<dwatkins> I like their blog entries too - that net curtain is rather amusing :)
<dwatkins> I clearly need to decide what to mount my Arduino and LCD in...
<dogmatic69> not seen them
<dwatkins> on the front page of http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/
<dogmatic69> my major projects with arduino is a laser cutter and autonomous grass mower
<dwatkins> I was looking at the ybox2 on adafruit, but I'll save that for next winter
<dwatkins> I like these ideas, dogmatic69 - I don't have any specific projects in mind, I just want to learn
<dogmatic69> laser cutter will be for balsa - model planes :)
<dwatkins> excellent
<dogmatic69> 60w co2 laser
<Neoti> does anyone in her use zoneminder ?
<dogmatic69> only thing im scared of is the 30kV they use to opperate :/
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: ouch, yeah
 * brobostigon thank google goggles for the help in solving a sodoku. :)
<brobostigon> sudoku*
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: should I get a serial-enabled LCD, or is it easy enough to control them via a parallel interface from an Arduino?
<dogmatic69> get one with the HD44780-compatible chip
<dogmatic69> for 16x2 that is
<dogmatic69> not sure on others
<dogmatic69> HD44780 is plug and play, others you might have to write 'drivers' for
<dogmatic69> also parallel would use all your pins up
<dwatkins> aha thanks
 * dwatkins bookmarks http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=35
<dogmatic69> that is the one i have :D
<dwatkins> excellent, thanks for the tip
<dogmatic69> it uses 4 pins + 5 for power
<dwatkins> Where do you learn how to connect and program them?
<dwatkins> i.e. spec sheets, included docs, or elsewhere?
<dogmatic69> *4 for data, 3 for controlling and 2 for data
<dogmatic69> cool components has links to spec sheets on all the pages
<dwatkins> yeah, just loading that up now
<dogmatic69> i just been browsing github for ideas https://github.com/search?langOverride=&q=arduino&repo=&start_value=1&type=Repositories
<dwatkins> I gather you can take an Ardunio after programming and just take the chip out and put it on its own board with a couple other components to then re-use the original dev board, so I could make all sorts of things with these
<dwatkins> aha yeah
<dogmatic69> i got working code for 7 seg displays, capacitance, lcd, led light meter, range finder, motor controller, ohm meter, servo and almost i2c temp
<dogmatic69> will try push them all tomorrow
<dwatkins> I really like 7-segment displays, I'd like to build a speed-o-meter someday
<dwatkins> this --> http://hackaday.com/2010/06/17/replacement-speedometer/ :D
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: i bought a loose microcontroller so im gonna set the uno up as a programmer and then just use the loose one for building things
<dogmatic69> nice
<dwatkins> I assume that's pretty much having the chip on its own board and a re-usable programming board
<dogmatic69> next code to write is the pin splitter thing 2 pins -> 16 or something
<dwatkins> I clearly have a lot to read up on
<dwatkins> serial vs parallel?
<dwatkins> brb
<dogmatic69> ive just been reading the arduino site mostly, good info there
<dogmatic69> and #arduino is helpful too
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: when you back http://www.sparkfun.com/products/8130 you could connect 10 of them to your uno and have 160 digital pins at your disposal
<dogmatic69> side note, i found https://proto-pic.co.uk to be quite lame, took a week for delivery and some things were squashed
<dwatkins> not good, dogmatic69
<dwatkins> I gather adafruit is pretty good, they're in the US of course
<dogmatic69> i could not wait that long :D
<dogmatic69> you know RS components? if you know what you want that is a good place
<dogmatic69> biggest electronics place i know of, its like the mcdonalds of electronics
<penguin42> well, they're not the cheapest of places - but they've been going a LONG time
<dwatkins> Yeah, RS have a huge catalogue.
<AlanBell> http://twitter.com/#!/czajkowski/status/33900969699840000 that will be directhex rocking the house at fosdem
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: I'm on #arduino although I don't read it so often
<directhex> AlanBell,  apparently czajkowski isn't big on cats
<AlanBell> I haven't introduced her to the chickens yet
<AlanBell> no lolwalrus this year?
<directhex> nope. just lots of cats, plus spongebob squarepants
<MartijnVdS> ...
 * brobostigon is trying to watch starwars, and cant, because itv live player sucks balls.
 * dwatkins throws a DVD at brobostigon 
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: blurays are coming end of the year
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: you can preorder at amazon
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: woohoo
<brobostigon> cheers dwatkins :)
<brobostigon> atleast iplayer works.
 * dwatkins learns that NTFS in linux is apparently done in userland
<directhex> it is.
<directhex> it's a FUSE driver
<directhex> there was an old read-only implementation in kernelspace
<dwatkins> I see, directhex :)
<dwatkins> I guess it's not required to be in the kernel, as it's only used for cross compatability
<dwatkins> i.e. using disks made on 'other' operating systems
<directhex> dwatkins, technically you could use a fuse driver "normally" by including everything in the initrd
<brobostigon> it has eventually  loaded itvplayer and then says, "this programme is not availabletowatch on itv.com" why didnt ou tell me  earlier, before i waited 15 mins for it to load. arghhh.
<penguin42> there was an in kernel NTFS years ago wasn't there? (with very restricted functionality)
<dwatkins> apparently so, penguin42 - no write capability
<dwatkins> or it was hideously broken
<penguin42> yeh
<dwatkins> ah, as directhex said
<danfish> czajkowski: yips - that got pretty close in the rubgy!
 * davisc breathes a sigh of relief
<suprengr> hi all. I have been given a D-Link DSL-2640S router.  Is it possible to use this to connect two Ubuntu systems [1x10.04desktop & 1x10.04 netbook]?
<brobostigon> suprengr: can you be more specific, what do you mean by conenct?
<suprengr> brobostigon: networking them for file copy [& hi there!]
<brobostigon> suprengr: scp, setup ssh on both ends.
<suprengr> brobostigon: with router in the middle I assume?
<brobostigon> or something like sshfs
<brobostigon> yes.
<suprengr> cool! [a friend requested a new router from Sky & they sent him three :D]
<brobostigon> just make sure both machines cansee eachother.
<AlanBell> a router isn't essential to connect two machines
<brobostigon> you use crossover ethernet cable.
<brobostigon> could*
<AlanBell> crossover cable would do, or some autosense now
<brobostigon> yes.
<suprengr> AlanBell: you mean as in peer to peer... I thought that was a no no.  ...& that also answers my other question re cross-over or standard cat5 :D
<AlanBell> works fine, but you have to sort out IP addresses somehow
<dwatkins> My router has a hub built-in to it...
<AlanBell> either run a dhcp server on one of them, or set static addresses in the same subnet
<AlanBell> I am guessing your router has a dhcp server which hands out 192.168 addresses to devices plugged into it's hub
<suprengr> AlanBell: ok.. can do that, no prob [I hope]
<brobostigon> suprengr: even with a crossover cable inbetween, you can still use scp or sshfs,
<suprengr> & yes - it has a 4 port hub built in
<suprengr> ...I love ubuntu-uk: you ask a silly question, no-one laughs & you get help.... love you all
<suprengr> thankyou
<brobostigon> youÍre welcome suprengr
<dwatkins> suprengr: http://pathogenrush.blogspot.com/2010/09/d-link-dsl-2640s.html :)
<dwatkins> There's all sorts of information about it online, but yes, you can just connect network cables between the PCs and the router and they should get an IP address from the router and be able to see each other
<suprengr> dwatkins: ok... now I'm more than impresses ;D
<suprengr> *impressed
<dwatkins> if that doesn't work, you might have to set static IP addresses, but the router should give them out, good luck suprengr :)
<suprengr> thanks again
<dwatkins> this reminds me, I was going to run busybox on a gumstix PC...
<Neoti> Any one using ZoneMinder
 * Neoti needs help on zoneminder!
<AlanBell> there is #zoneminder
<Neoti> i have posted the question there and its been four hours i have reposted it every 30 min ... but still nothing ...
<AlanBell> oh, give it 24 hours
<AlanBell> and try on a weekday
<Neoti> true
<AlanBell> but it might be that they don't use the channel
<AlanBell> how far have you got?
<AlanBell> I looked at doing a zoneminder cctv for my house
<Neoti> i have a camera with a RTSP out feed and i can get the images via Mplayer etc but am stuck with some options in zoneminder...
<AlanBell> never quite got round to it and the project cost when I worked it out was higher than I initially guessed
<Neoti> some of the documentation says if the stream works in mplayer IE mplayer rtsp://192.168.200.100:554 then zone minder will work fine but its not working ... i just get a red bar and not image etc...
<jacobw> How much data does a CCTV feed generate per minute/hour/day ?
<jacobw> Surely its a lot?
<Neoti> well i was using this through Gsurf the grandstream monitoring program and 1 hour was 400MB
<AlanBell> jacobw: you can set it to record only whenn something interesting is happening (big changes between frames)
<jacobw> I suppose you only need to keep, say, 48 hours worth of recording at any one time
<jacobw> Ah, that's cool AlanBell
<Neoti> for my purpose i will keep them for 7 days and then it will delete them off etc..
<popey> heh
<popey> i keep mine for ages
<popey> eats loads of disk space
 * jacobw has thought about implementing such a thing in the past
<MonsterKiller> Hey. i just built the latest openssl from source, does anyone how i could tell if it was installed right /just make sure its working
<MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: why did you install it that way?
<MartijnVdS> (first of all :))
<MonsterKiller> because there was a newer one from source than the ubuntu package
<MonsterKiller> and i was getting ssl errors on my webserver
<MonsterKiller> so i wanted the newest
<MonsterKiller> :P
<MartijnVdS> uhm
<BigRedS> MonsterKiller: the packaged openssl is tested with the packaged apache
<MartijnVdS> it's more likely to break harder than fix your problem
<MartijnVdS> unless you really know what you're doing
<MonsterKiller> >.<
<BigRedS> a custom-built one wont be. What were the errors? It's highly unlikely a compile has fixed them
<MonsterKiller> http://paste.monsterprojects.org/mpbhblejkrejwrl
<BigRedS> But, really, that's how to check it's working - do stuff with it and check it acts as expected
<MonsterKiller> i went to the lighttpd channel and they suggested the newest openssl
<MartijnVdS> :'(
<BigRedS> People do that...
<MonsterKiller> lol
<BigRedS> It's not necessarily a *bad* thing, it's just it's easier to find a bunch of people using the distro-supplied openssl with the distro-supplied lighttpd than a mish-mash of handbuilds
<BigRedS> and the distro-supported way is better tested
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: unless $distro is one of the build-your-owns ;)
<MonsterKiller> lol
<BigRedS> MartijnVdS: ah yeah. I forget about those :)
<BigRedS> but those people just want that sort of trouble, anyway
<BigRedS> :)
<jacobw> Damn 'those people' ;)
<BigRedS> Haha. I've nothing against them, I just don't want to be one
<BigRedS> Oh, MonsterKiller your paste wotsit didn't work for me
<MonsterKiller> o.O
<MonsterKiller> ill put it somewhere else
<MonsterKiller> but what did it say / not do?
<MonsterKiller> :p
<BigRedS> nope
<BigRedS> usererror
<BigRedS> :(
<BigRedS> (I missed a character off when I copied)
<MonsterKiller> hehe
<BigRedS> Though I'm still useless, and I've got to wander off imminently in any case
<MonsterKiller> who updates the ubuntu packages?
<MartijnVdS> the Ubuntu maintainers
<MonsterKiller> i see
<MartijnVdS> but what is the exact problem you have?
<MonsterKiller> well to start with lighttpd was giving ssl errors and people couldnt access ssl pages
<MartijnVdS> which ssl errors?
<MartijnVdS> any more specific?
<MonsterKiller> SSL: 1 error:1408A09D:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_CLIENT_HELLO:clienthello tlsext
<MonsterKiller> SSL: null SSL_CTX for TLS server name <page>
<MartijnVdS> That looks like the client starts a TLS/SSLv3 connection
<MartijnVdS> and the server can't find a SSL context for the server
<MartijnVdS> sounds like you didn't generate/specify your server cert correctly in the lighttpd config
<MonsterKiller> the thing was that it worked for about 3 weeks then all of a sudden i got that
<MartijnVdS> maybe the cert expired?
<MartijnVdS> or the signing cert expired?
<MonsterKiller> shouldnt have done :/
<MartijnVdS> check it
<MartijnVdS> or someone/something fiddled with your config
 * mgdm wonders if dotdeb.org packages on Hardy is a bad idea
<MonsterKiller> hmm well i will go back to the ubuntu openssl package for now since building one didnt work but there is like 5 updates, 1 of which is a security update, after package one
<mgdm> sod it, /me rebuilds it with pbuilder
<MonsterKiller> lol
<MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: the Ubuntu people /always/ backport security fixes
<MonsterKiller> lol
<MartijnVdS> are you really laughing out loud, or are you just filling the void with useless "lol"ling
<MonsterKiller> erm 2nd one?
<MonsterKiller> >.<
<MonsterKiller> OpenSSL 1.0.0c is now available, including important bug and security fixes
<MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: Important fixes are always backported to stable releases of Ubuntu
<MonsterKiller> okay
<MonsterKiller> though i wish i wasnt told i should update openssl from source :/
<MonsterKiller> got to install things again
<MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: if you're lucky, it installed in /usr/local/ instead of /usr/lib/
<MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: if so, "make uninstall" should do the trick :)
<MonsterKiller> /usr/local/ssl
<MonsterKiller> :p
<MonsterKiller> never done make uninstall though
<MonsterKiller> first timer for that
<MonsterKiller> make: *** No rule to make target `uninstall'.  Stop.
<MonsterKiller> o.O
<MartijnVdS> oh, too bad
<MartijnVdS> sometimes that works
<dwatkins> I guess it would require the Makefile to have rules on what to do, you could reverse the process of installation by hand, though, in theory...
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: afaik some automake versions create makefiles with uninstall targets
<MonsterKiller> if i knew where it put everything
<MartijnVdS> and ExtUtils::MakeMaker used to
<dwatkins> MonsterKiller: reading the Makefile may tell you this
<mgdm> tbh I'd do something like apt-get install --reinstall openssl (whatever the package name is)
<mgdm> but I'll defer to advice on that point
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: won't matter, everything installed into /usr/local/ssl
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: package files weren't overwritten
<mgdm> Ah, that's not so bad then
<MonsterKiller> where should it usually install?
<MartijnVdS> MonsterKiller: depends on what you tell it :)
<MonsterKiller> lol
<MartijnVdS> usually you would use a package
<MonsterKiller> i will just stick with the package for now and wait till the package is updated
<MonsterKiller> :P
<Seeker`> :O ITS MGDGM
<mgdm> :O SEEKER`!!
<mgdm> Hmmm, I are lagging
<bigcalm> Hi mgdm :)
<mgdm> 'lo bigcalm :)
 * bigcalm hungers for Chinese take-away. Wonder if I can convince Hayley that she hungers for it as well ;)
<MonsterKiller> lol
 * mgdm compiles PHP 5.3 on his VM
<mgdm> I expect to be waiting a wee while
<bigcalm> What are you compiling in that can't be loaded as a module?
<mgdm> PHP itself :)
<mgdm> I want PHP 5.3 on hardy without all the silly things the deb packages do to it
<MartijnVdS> like?
<MartijnVdS> security? :P
<mgdm> I don't need 90% of the junk that's compiled in, and I'm in two minds about the Suhosin thing
<bigcalm> I've still yet to make use of file upload progress
<bigcalm> There was a time when it would have been useful. But that time may come again some day
<mgdm> I used that the other week
<mgdm> If you're using APC's one, it doesn't work with FastCGI
<bigcalm> I grumble at having to keep 5.2 around as CakePHP 1.1 doesn't work on 5.3 (no, there is no budget to upgrade to 1.2)
<bigcalm> One of our client servers has to remain on 4 due to a version of moregroupware on it
<mgdm> :|
<MartijnVdS> :'(
<bigcalm> It's possible to run different versions of PHP side by side based on vhost, right?
<mgdm> if you do that you really want FastCGI or something like that
<brobostigon> hehe, irssi on my android. :)
<mgdm> \o/
<mgdm> is that via connectbot or some SSH thing?
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> sshing into my eeepc.
<kob>  hi all, anyone running TOR ? I'd need a running bridge to connect to the network ....
<Azelphur> what's a good open source cross platform alternative to skype?
<brobostigon> mgdm: its working quite well.
<mgdm> cool
<mgdm> I have done that on occasion
 * MartijnVdS yawns a bit
<brobostigon> mgdm: i would loveto do it form an outside network, but dont have mobile ipv6.
<MartijnVdS> my phone has ipv6, as long as I'm on a wifi net with a v6 router
<brobostigon> which i am at home,
<MartijnVdS> (SLAAC)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: at home, or at work :)
<MartijnVdS> well not quite yet at work
<brobostigon> home,
<MartijnVdS> but they're working on it
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> ooh, 80s night on the vault
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> would workbetter i think,on a motorola xoom, with a bigger screen.
<brobostigon> something like*
 * MartijnVdS wants a Xoom
<MartijnVdS> or something like it
<MartijnVdS> I've watched the presentation this week.. *Droool*
<brobostigon> me too, very.
<ali1234> meh, even windows mobile supported ipv6 back in 2005
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: everything except most home routers/modems supports it
<brobostigon> ali1234: issue is, do an mobile phone providers support  and give ipv6 addr's. not that iknow of yet, atleastin the uk.
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: Carrier/ISP equipment can all do it (yay US government requirements)
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: problem is, mobile won't do dual-stack until LTE
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: 3G (UMTS) and GPRS support v4 _or_ v6, but not both at the same time
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: LTE ?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: ah, i see.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution -- "4G"
<MartijnVdS> the next tech after UMTS
<brobostigon> thank you MartijnVdS, ,let melook.
<ali1234> exactly, everything supports ipv6 except the cheap free routers that ISPs give out
<MartijnVdS> ali1234: which is why we give Fritz!Boxes away where I work :)
<MartijnVdS> they can negotiate for a v6 prefix using PPPoA/PPPoE + magic
<brobostigon> i very quickly got my ownrouter, when my isp supplied one failed, and have since stuckdoing that, and using custom firmware,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: sure, but if the ISP is assuming most people have the cheap router, they won't implement v6
<MartijnVdS> well they will
<MartijnVdS> but everyone will need a new modem
<MartijnVdS> or router
<brobostigon> or new firmware,
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: new modem is easier for the support department
<MartijnVdS> firmware flashing can go wrong in so many creative ways
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: good point
<brobostigon> higher HW cost.
<AlanBell> yay, I have a phone again
<brobostigon> but maybe overall lower cost,
<brobostigon> yay AlanBell
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you lost your previous one?
<AlanBell> think it is a bit broken, for voice, but I think I can install an IRC client on it
<Azelphur> Having problems getting my mic to work, I know it's wired up and has driver support because I can turn the mic up in the playback section on Alsamixer and hear myself
<Azelphur> but I can't get it to work on capture
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: use the pulseaudio configuration bit
<MartijnVdS> (speaker in top bar, sound preferences)
<Azelphur> yea, I'm using sound preferences
<Azelphur> the mic is turned up, and I got nothing from input level it's just black
<MartijnVdS> and which app to record
<MartijnVdS> is it muted?
<Azelphur> nope
 * MartijnVdS 's laptop has an unsupported codec chip
<MartijnVdS> so the mic shows up but doesn't work
<Azelphur> yup
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/February%202011/2011-02-05-201014_574x477_scrot.png
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: any other "connector" available?
<Azelphur> yes, but none of them work either :(
<Azelphur> Microphone 1, Microphone 2, Line-In
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/Azelphur pro helping tools :P
<MartijnVdS> click the internal audio thingy
<MartijnVdS> analog duplex is good
<Azelphur> :)
<MartijnVdS> why not use the one in your webcam? :)
<MartijnVdS> the mic
<Azelphur> doesn't work either :(
<MartijnVdS> Have you manually changed audio settings?
<MartijnVdS> disabled pulse, things like that
<Azelphur> nope
<MartijnVdS> no idea, sorry
<Azelphur> blast :(
<Azelphur> lol mouse goes crazy when I go onto my other X screen xD
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: it's weird because if I change mic on playback I can hear myself
<MartijnVdS> let me check how it's set here
<Azelphur> kk
<MartijnVdS> it wokrs!
<Azelphur> haha wtf
<MartijnVdS> I hear you
<Azelphur> but it still doesn't work in the sound preferences dialog
<Azelphur> I was just like what why is the VE meter on ustream working
<Azelphur> that's trippy.
<Azelphur> also, Flash fell over and died :(
<MartijnVdS> could be flash
<MartijnVdS> claiming the device so sound prefs can't read from it
<Azelphur> nah, I had sound pref open before I started flash
<Azelphur> *shrug* weirdness
<penguin42> Azelphur: Try lsof /dev/snd/*  the only thing should be a couple of pulseaudio instances
<alexMocanu> Hello, everybody!
<Azelphur> penguin42: Steam.exe and lmms :P
<penguin42> Azelphur: Hmph well get those guys out of the way and pulse might be able to get back in there
<Azelphur> penguin42: lol, pulse is in there, apps that use pulseaudio can hear my mic :P
<Azelphur> I think it's just the sound preferences dialog that went up the wall
<penguin42> hmm
<stuart> This might be a bit OT, but does Ubuntu automatically recognise say (SMP) Hyperthreading even if it is not recognised in the bios??
<mgdm> the kernel will handle that, so yes
<mgdm> well, if it's available on the chip, and assuming it's not disabled somehow
<AlanBell> if it is disabled in the bios then it will see one processor
<gord> yeah smp is almost always controlled by the bios
<AlanBell> but the bios should have some setting for it
<MooDoo> hello all
<brobostigon> evening MooDoo :)
<AlanBell> my new phone thinks the date is 27/82/2010
<penguin42> erm
<penguin42> which phone is that?
<AlanBell> when I say "my new phone" I mean, "my wife's old phone"
<AlanBell> LG KS360
<AlanBell> and now it won't let me set the date because the date is invalid /o\
<AlanBell> ah, done it
<AlanBell> set it all to zeros and saved, then set it back
#ubuntu-uk 2011-02-06
<brobostigon> nos da, sleep well everyone.
<multiHYP> hi guys
<multiHYP> where is the file that is preloading my terminals with certain environment variables?
<multiHYP> anybody awake and know the answer?
<ali1234> /etc/environment
<multiHYP> cheets ali
<ali1234> also /etc/profile
<multiHYP> so which one?
<ali1234> both
<multiHYP> mostly for logged in user, cause i don't have admin permission
<ali1234> ~/.profile
<multiHYP> yes that seems the right one
<multiHYP> if vnc is installed on the linux machine, where is it and how can i lunch it? i am logged into it remotely via ssh...
<multiHYP> *launch
<multiHYP> :D
<ali1234> if it was installed it would be in the path
<multiHYP> like the result of $ env   ?
<AlanBell> morning all
<AlanBell> Debian have released a new version http://lists.debian.org/debian-announce/2011/msg00001.html
<Jora> hi
<mattt> alanbell: nice!
<jonsaint> hi all. im trying to install an exe file which lets me manage my phone via my pc but its saying something about the 'executable bit'. anyone got any ideas??
<jonsaint> hi all. anyone about to help??
<jonsaint> hi all. anyone about to help???
<AlanBell> my debian torrent is done
<MartijnVdS> that took 2 hours?! :P
<AlanBell> um, no don't think so
<AlanBell> I went shopping
 * MartijnVdS went running
<Myrtti> boo.
<Myrtti> D left for UK
 * MartijnVdS disables compiz so everything works again
<MartijnVdS> (i.e. drag&drop, window snapping)
<brobostigon> morning everyone.
 * MartijnVdS doesn't like the state natty is in
<MartijnVdS> with everything crashing left and right
<MartijnVdS> seemingly randomly
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> :'( even
<brobostigon> i found a working, cyanogenmod 7/android 2.3 build, for my htc dream last night, and other than one random restart, it hs been working fine.
<MartijnVdS> isn't it slow?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: its slow in places, but overall pretty smooth and quick.
<brobostigon> onlyplace where its slow, is when minimising an app, back to desktop.
 * MartijnVdS waits for the official update on nexus one :(
<MartijnVdS> speculation is that there's a data leak bug
<brobostigon> everywhere else, there seems to be improvements.
<brobostigon> hmm. :(
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/faculty/jiang/nexuss.html
 * brobostigon kicks androids standerd keyboard for its memeory use, and installs swype.
<MartijnVdS> hmm fresh darjeeling
<MartijnVdS> Does this work outside the Netherlands? http://3voor12.vpro.nl/speler/luisterpaal/44438012#luisterpaal.44438012
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: its trying to load.
<brobostigon> loaded.
<MartijnVdS> does it stream audiO?
<brobostigon> i cant try right now, sorry.
<MartijnVdS> np :)
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i havent found any serious breakage yet, but i hve learnt to do a nand backup, just incase, i need to roll back.
<brobostigon> next test will be going to the pub, and testing battery life and usage.
<MartijnVdS> going to the pub is always the best test ;)
<brobostigon> agreed, and especially here, old thick stone walls, so patchy signal reception.
<czajkowski> Peeka boo
<brobostigon> afternoonings czajkowski
<czajkowski> brobostigon: hiya
<MartijnVdS> \o
<AlanBell> how is fosdem today?
<OmNomSequitur> We don't know.
<MartijnVdS> OmNomSequitur: ?
<brobostigon> i have heard loads about the haiku-os stand,
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: does that link I posted earlier work for you? with sound streaming?
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: http://3voor12.vpro.nl/speler/luisterpaal/44438012#luisterpaal.44438012
<AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/ does this work?
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: yes, that works
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: cool, thanks
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you can use it to listen to new albums for about one week each (part of Dutch public broadcasting)
<popey> Morning all!
<popey> ish
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<Pendulum> hi popey
<popey> I appear to have arrived home from a party with two more computers than I left with
<Pendulum> :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: "Please fix this for me" notes attached?
<popey> no
<popey> "please take these computers away"
<popey> one is an ex-mythtv front/backend
<AlanBell> popey: you know it was a good party when you wake up next to a computer you don't recognise
<popey> :)
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: unless your other computer sees  you
<MartijnVdS> No compiz. When I click on the edge of a terminal window by mistake, I don't want to make it one column smaller
<MartijnVdS> http://j.mp/fb0Jkm
<MartijnVdS> popey: and one for you: http://j.mp/ieNQY2
<dogmatic69> i have a open source cms thingy that ive been building and looking to jack up the security. i figured the best way to do this is to post somewhere that it is imposible to hack :D
<dogmatic69> what can i do on the server side to make it like a sandbox type environment so people dont break the server?
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: that's very hard
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: it's easier to have a few trusted "experts" have a go first
<dogmatic69> im thinking maybe just a small slice account that if they do hack, it does not matter
 * dwatkins returns from shopping having noted that compuers aren't any faster than they were 2 years ago
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: http://ha.ckers.org/xss.html
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: they have twice/four times as many cores though
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: http://ferruh.mavituna.com/sql-injection-cheatsheet-oku/
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: indeed, but that's the only way they seem to be improving
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: i dont belive you, i just bought a i3 + 4gigs 430gt (low end) and its compareable to my quad core 8 gigs with 9800 gt (high end at the time)
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: (but you're using prepared statements and a proper ORM, aren't you?)
<MartijnVdS> uhr dogmatic69 ^
<dogmatic69> i belive a i9 would wipe the floor with my quad core i got now
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: they also do more per cycle.. so the number isn't growing, but the "number of things done" is
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: prepared statements?
<dwatkins> ah ok, that's hidden improvements, then MartijnVdS
 * dwatkins wonders where to learn more and looks i7 etc. up on wikipedia
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: trying to think of some possible attack vectors of dogmatic69's system.. SQL injection is one :)
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: im using cakephp, so something like that. its very escaped etc. i would bet money that you cant do a sql injection
<dogmatic69> dogmatic69.com go right ahead :)
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: looks nice
<dwatkins> attack vectors? what kind of system is this?
<dogmatic69> my os app?
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: web app
<dwatkins> a LAMP server?
<dogmatic69> MartijnVdS: ive fixed one xss thing that i found
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: check that cheat sheet regularly, new kinds are found sometimes :)
<dogmatic69> its lamp, but not a package thing.. installed with apt-get php mysql-sever cherokee etc
<dwatkins> do you have denyhosts, dogmatic69?
<dwatkins> (assuming there's a listening ssh server)
<MartijnVdS> denyhosts or fail2ban
 * MartijnVdS likes fail2ban because it can do other daemons as well
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: ssh is enabled, but im talking more from the php side. you cant brute force it
<MartijnVdS> (disable HTTP access when it sees too many errors from a given host)
<dwatkins> you can't?
<MartijnVdS> it's php, of course you can :P
<dwatkins> if there's any bugs in php which allow buffer overruns or anything like that, you're potentially open to attack
<dogmatic69> nope, i got some rules to ban ip's when there is to many bad logins
<dwatkins> check the latest security bulletins
<dogmatic69> well that i cant help, talking more about *my* code in the app
<dwatkins> What if someone snoops someone's login, dogmatic69?
<MartijnVdS> https, SSH key-based login \o;/
<dogmatic69> that has nothing to do with my code
<dwatkins> i.e. could they do damage to other people's stuff?
<dogmatic69> thats just silly people using unprotected wifi and not looking for firesheep or whatever
<dwatkins> doesn't mean it won't happen
<dogmatic69> well there is no php app that will protect against that
<dwatkins> I'm just suggesting that if you've implemented usernames, you should ensure that a single user can't do any damage to anything but their own data
<dogmatic69> ye
<dogmatic69> that is taken care of mostly
<dogmatic69> just found a xss :/
<MartijnVdS> dogmatic69: by looking through the cheat sheet?
<dogmatic69> yip
<popey> haha MartijnVdS
<dogmatic69> only upto the second one :(
<czajkowski> howdy
<Pendulum> hiya czajkowski
<popey> lo
<czajkowski> more beer
<czajkowski> :D
<jacobw> afternoon
<czajkowski> Geeks here are running fireSheep and bad bad things are happening
<Azelphur> lol
<Azelphur> all your base are belong to firesheep.
<AlanBell> czajkowski: are you not the ringleader this time?
<penguin42> perhaps I'll try updating my debian vm when ftp.uk.debian.org has some bandwidth again
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> the bad company I'm keeping these days
<dwatkins> I am scared of firesheep's capabilities.
<czajkowski> indeed
<dwatkins> Granted, it's just exposing a security flaw, but stil.
<dwatkins> also: still
<jacobw> Does it run on Linux yet?
<dwatkins> Not yet, apparently.
<dogmatic69> dwatkins: a flaw that has been around since internet started just about :)
<dwatkins> dogmatic69: fair enough, but it now really needs fixing, it appears
<dogmatic69> yes
<dogmatic69> its just another 'script kiddie' tool now
<dwatkins> I imagine it wasn't a problem a long time ago, much like telnet.
<dogmatic69> all the hardcore hackers are using it ;)
<lazarus_> hehe
<dwatkins> I'm sure they are, yes. I wouldn't dare login in an internet cafe nowadays.
<dogmatic69> :D
<dwatkins> I'd probably use an ssh tunnel even on wifi I don't completely trust.
<dogmatic69> i cant find free wifi anyhow
<dwatkins> Go to a coffee shop ;)
<dogmatic69> got unlimited 3g also
<dwatkins> wow, how did you get that, dogmatic69?
<dogmatic69> 02
<dogmatic69> o2
<dogmatic69> on my phone
<dogmatic69> which remotely resembles a laptop :)
<dwatkins> Ah, so you have 500 MB a month, then.
<Pendulum> dogmatic69: have you read the fine print? even 'unlimited' usually has a limit (as a friend on o2 has discovered)
<dwatkins> I'm moving to Three, as they offer a Gigabyte a month.
<dogmatic69> Pendulum: yip, but i never reach that... i have *real* unlimited at home and work
<dogmatic69> + 20mb line at home
<dogmatic69> BT ftw
<lazarus_> virgin ftw btw
<HazRPG> \o
<jacobw> o/
<dwatkins> BT are terrible in my experience - my Virgin hardware failed once, BT's hardware fails regularly, despite having been replaced once already.
<dwatkins> Every couple days we have to reset the home-hub2, this being our second, and the engineer replaced the socket already.
<lazarus_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/563474/ any way i can make this better?
<dwatkins> Test for the file existing already before writing to it, lazarus_ - just in case? Create a temporary directory based on epoch time in /tmp to work in?
<AlanBell> http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/ anyone want to try this?
 * penguin42 clicks
<DJones> AlanBell: Is it meant to show your own pin, or just others? I've submitted mine but its not showing up
 * AlanBell clicks approve on the djones pin
<DJones> Ah, that would explain it
<DJones> Yep, showing fine now
<penguin42> I don't like giving exact position; I want uncertainty on pins
<DJones> penguin42: Just put the town/city name
<DJones> I tried that & it showed me a couple of miles away in the town centre
<AlanBell> it is designed to be uncertain
<AlanBell> town level
<penguin42> ah
<dwatkins> is 'subtitle' what I should put my IRC nickname in?
<DJones> it also works with postcodes
<AlanBell> dwatkins: excellent idea
<AlanBell> it will work with postcodes, but I am intentionally asking for town
<dwatkins> I hope you don't plan on having me reply to e-mails, I'm putting my hotmail address ;)
<dwatkins> You can comment on my blog if you want to contact me, though.
<penguin42> AlanBell: It gave me a posting comments too quickly after filling in a field I'd missed
<dwatkins> haha: You are posting comments too quickly. Slow down.
<penguin42> yeh same
<AlanBell> yes, there is something broken with that, not sure where to turn it off
<dwatkins> I got that, went back, clicked subit again, then got told I hadn't entered my e-mail address nor location, which I had.
<AlanBell> I think I will remove email from the form
<AlanBell> not going to do anything with it
<dwatkins> Yeah, good plan, AlanBell.
<dwatkins> If you change 'subject' to 'IRC nick' people can get in touch through here
<penguin42> still hitting the too quickly
<AlanBell> penguin42: yes, just breaking that "feature" now
 * penguin42 hands AlanBell the hammer
 * Myrtti feels torn apart, can't decide whether to put Fens or Finland into the form
<AlanBell> Myrtti: do both
<AlanBell> we should get all our non-dom members in too, like Pendulum and maco
<AlanBell> and MartijnVdS
<AlanBell> and txwikinger
<Pendulum> AlanBell: aww, I feel loved :)
<dwatkins> I'm Dom, though.
<dwatkins> (sorry, bad joke)
<mgdm> Hmm, my pin isn't appearing
 * AlanBell approves
<mgdm> Oh! Didn't realise that was a step :)
 * AlanBell turns off moderation for the moment
<dwatkins> Did you approve me, or do I still need to fill the form in again, AlanBell?
<penguin42> AlanBell: The tab order is a bit weird, description is out of order
<penguin42> anyone short on RAM? http://www.buysamsungparts.com/m393b4g70am0-yf8.html
<DJones> penguin42: I'm tempted, although with a machine thats limited to 512Mb, it might be a bit over the top
<hcfd> Hi guys. I am about to reinstall Ubuntu, decided to go for 10.04 with the Alternate CD as I want RAID1. Just curious if, on balance, RAID10 would be better? I only have two disks however.
<penguin42> hcfd: Do you want speed with twice the chance of losing it all or reliability with half the chance of losing it all?
<hcfd> penguin42, well if my options are RAID0 or RAID1, I want RAID1. I'm just curious to know how RAID10 compares to RAID1. If it is necessarily as you say, I'll stick with RAID1. :)
<hcfd> Still trying to understand how RAID10 is implemented (there are different block patterns).
<ball> RAID 0 offers no redundancy
<ball> RAID 10 is really RAID 1+0, so it's a RAID 0 stripe across two RAID 1 mirrors
<ball> (requires at least four drives)
<lazarus_> hmm import a downloaded backup but i would need the script to interact with ubuntu one
<cps> evening chaps
<lazarus_> cps: sup
<cps> hey lazarus_
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6938670/SourceManager/eqDAc.jpg rofl :D
<hcfd> ball: There's something called RAID10 which can use two drives, mdadm supports that, but it's not classical RAID10. Heck, I was happy with RAID1, I think I'll just go for that.
<ball> hcfd: sounds evil.
<hcfd> ball: Quite possibly. I'm not prepared to use something I don't quite understand, and I only have about 3 hours to get this machine up and running again so I'm not taking chances. :)
<ball> RAID 1 ftw then.
<directhex> moo
<Azelphur> baa
<ball> eep
<directhex> i am tired
<directhex> and in brussels
<directhex> but mostly tired
<Azelphur> directhex: look at above image, proceed to laugh :p
<ball> I'm in America and I'm frustrated.
<directhex> laughing is for the untired
<ball> I think I'm going to try Ubuntu Server
<ball> This machine's getting wiped.
<czajkowski> aloha
<ball> Mornin' cz<tab>
<Pendulum> czajkowski: how's the beer and waffles?
<czajkowski> :D
<czajkowski> excellent
<Azelphur> hmm, is launchpad (the name) copyrighted?
<ball> Azelphur: I hope not, it's a common word.
<Azelphur> good point
<Azelphur> apple is launching a feature called launchpad xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: You could trademark its use in a particular context
<Myrtti> it's not unique by any means
<Myrtti> I think that last.fm has launchpad too
<ball> People with rockets have used launchpads for years.
<penguin42> ball: But not as a webservice for bug management
<ball> penguin42: ok
<Azelphur> hehe
<penguin42> I'm not sure what granularity trademarks go to
<Azelphur> the apple marketing page for their new OS is hilarious to me
<ball> I really hoped that Ubuntu Server would work for this job.  It didn't even boot.  That is disappointing.
<Azelphur> http://www.apple.com/macosx/lion/
<penguin42> ball: On what hardware and how did it fail to boot?
<Azelphur> The Mac App Store, we've had one of those for at least a year now. Launchpad is the UNR launcher we've had that for ages too, Full screen apps, phew must be a decade behind there, and Mission control has been in compiz since like 2k5 too
<Azelphur> Apple behind as usual, also wtf at marketing full screen apps like it's new and amazing rofl
<Azelphur> "You can bring an app to full screen with one click" ONE CLICK, YOU CAN MAKE IT FULL SCREEN. IT TOOK US 10 YEARS TO DO IT, BUT YOU CAN HAVE IT NOW.
<penguin42> Azelphur: Read it more carefully
<Azelphur> penguin42: which part?
<Azelphur> the gestures?
<penguin42> Azelphur: I think it's saying you can do it to an arbitrary app, with one click
<Azelphur> you can on Ubuntu too
<penguin42> how?
<Azelphur> not by default but you can
<penguin42> oh right, so you mean the normal user can't
<Azelphur> yea, only because nobody bothered to put a button on the window manager for it
<Azelphur> it's just a window state like maximize
<Azelphur> I guess nobody thought it'd actually be useful to anyone
<penguin42> Azelphur: They bothered to do it first so they've been able to make a point out of it
<Azelphur> *shrug*
<gord> i um, i don't want my applications fullscreen on a desktop
<Azelphur> me either
 * penguin42 can see a handful of uses
<ball> penguin42: An old Compaq desktop that I happened to have handy for an urgent project.  Point of principle though: a server OS shouldn't require graphics.
<gord> i can run firefox fullscreen now, i never do it
<ball> I get 'graphics initialization failed'
<ball> 'Error setting up gfxboot'
<penguin42> ball: agreed
<Azelphur> gord: same
<Myrtti> I use terminator full screen...
<Myrtti> although I do split it into quarters... :-D
<Azelphur> If you want that feature, in compiz commands plugin bind a key to run wmctrl -r :ACTIVE: -b toggle,fullscreen
<Azelphur> tada you have that feature now
<gord> ball, ubuntu server does not require graphics
<gord> i'v deployed it on many systems without X
<penguin42> ball: In grub, edit out the set gfxmode= line
<ball> penguin42: I don't even get to grub afaict.
<penguin42> ball: Bang shift right after the bios
<MartijnVdS> just keep it pressed until grub shows up
<AlanBell> penguin42: tab order fixed, thanks
<AlanBell> dwatkins: try again, I can't see your comment in the approval queue
<txwikinger> AlanBell: my name was called?
<AlanBell> txwikinger: http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
<ball> gord: I'm fairly disgusted that it even /tries/ to use graphics.
<AlanBell> we are filling that in, including the non-doms
<txwikinger> Ah cool
<txwikinger> Well.. technically I am still under the hemisphere of Her Majesty the Queen :D
<gord> ball... what? its not loading up X or anything like that
<ball> gord: Doesn't matter.  It just dents the credibility of Ubuntu as a server OS in my opinion.
<txwikinger> Bah.. google maps..all the privacy is trampled with feet
<AlanBell> fraid so
<gord> ball, okay let me ask you this, what do you mean by *graphics*
<AlanBell> give me an openstreetmap plugin or recode that one then it will be changed
<gord> all its doing is painting text on a screen
<ball> gord: anything that requires a framebuffer
<ball> I'm past the splash screen thing now using "install cli", but still.
<gord> ball, you know this thing you are referring to, what has you so worked up, was just grub setting its resolution right?
<ball> gord: thought it was the splash screen thing.
<gord> no
<ball> Now I'm stumped because it's prompting me for a WEP key and the wireless network requires WPA2-PSK, not WEP
<ball> gord: Why even mess with the screen mode?
<gord> because different monitors require different resolutions
<ball> It's a server.
 * ball shakes his head in dismay.
<gord> are you currently running it on a monitor?
<gord> you still have to communicate with the display, even when drawing text
<gord> this is how computers work
<ball> gord: CGA text mode should suffice, or MDA or a serial console.
<txwikinger> AlanBell: Yes.. I have talked with the local OSM people here about it
<txwikinger> AlanBell: Setting the pin somehow did not work, otherwise I filled it out
<AlanBell> it worked
<txwikinger> AlanBell: It worked? Where is my pin?
<penguin42> gord: The current grub is trying to go into graphics mode where older stuff would stay in text mode; on a PC that's quite a different thing, it's not just setting resolution
<AlanBell> txwikinger: near kitchener, canada
<txwikinger> oh.. I see
<AlanBell> is it right?
<txwikinger> Well.. it moved itself a bit :) but close enough :D
<txwikinger> Especially for a google map :D
<AlanBell> good, it isn't supposed to be super accurate
<txwikinger> Yeah.. that is fine.. You don't want crazy people come to your doorsteps :D
<penguin42> ball: If you just take all the junk to do with set gfxmode out of the grub start up it has a much better chance
<cps> hum
<cps> two crashes in 2 minutes
<MartijnVdS> cps: natty?
<cps> MartijnVdS: maverick
<MartijnVdS> cps: strange.. full-blown crashes or just apps misbehaving?
<cps> MartijnVdS: Full-blown crashes. I end up having to do a cold boot
<MartijnVdS> cps: ouch!
<cps> indeed
<MartijnVdS> maybe hardware is going wonky?
<cps> I hope not
 * txwikinger is gong to work on the new Kubuntu-de.org server now
<AlanBell> txwikinger: crazy people on my doorstep happens every time we leave the house
<ball> penguin42: How would I even get to that if I can't boot though?
<txwikinger> AlanBell: Yeah.. I remember those times in the UK :D
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you live in the wrong part of town? :)
<txwikinger> MartijnVdS: Wrong country ?
<MartijnVdS> txwikinger: maybe, maybe
<MartijnVdS> txwikinger: but you get crazies everywhere
<txwikinger> MartijnVdS: Well.. here the crazies are frozen in the snow :D
<AlanBell> my house is full of crazy people
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: cat ladies, etc.?
<Pendulum> AlanBell: all the best people are
<AlanBell> MartijnVdS: no cat ladies here
<txwikinger> Well.. we had a heavy snow evening last night.... Cars could not even move inside town anymore
<txwikinger> So there is a natural selection to move out the crazies :D
<cps> hmm
<cps> might buy a new hard disk when I get the money to do so
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: only a few birds ;)
<AlanBell> three big birds
<AlanBell> but they are quite sensible
 * cps listens to âNautilusâ by Bob James
 * MartijnVdS listens to Upstairs at Eric's by Yazoo :)
<cps> Yazoo ftw :D
<MartijnVdS> cps: vinyl records FTW :)
<cps> MartijnVdS: indeed. my stepdad has a few but no turntable to play them on
<cps> hmm
<cps> hoping my iso can download before the computer crashes again
 * brobostigon returns from pub.
<AlanBell> cps: torrent it and it will recover from crashes
<AlanBell> cps: downloading squeeze?
<penguin42> AlanBell: So does that page actually have a way to change their location or delete the entry etc?
<AlanBell> err, no
<AlanBell> but I can delete pins
<penguin42> hmm going to get out dated quite fast
<cps> evening brobostigon :)
<AlanBell> are you on the run or something?
<penguin42> AlanBell: Shhh!
<MartijnVdS> â« Always on the run
<penguin42> AlanBell: Pity Launchpad doesn't have the location (any more?) otherwise it might make sense to get more from that
<AlanBell> it has location, but not maps
<penguin42> AlanBell: Its location entry for me is now shown as 'Time zone: Europe/London' which is a bit coarser
<AlanBell> because launchpad uses https and if you want maps embedded on an https page you have to pay Google squillions of dollars
<maco> AlanBell: how many pounds is that?
<AlanBell> it is technology, so a 1:1 exchange rate is applied
<penguin42> maco: About the same as our national debt
<AlanBell> >>> print me.longitude,me.latitude
<AlanBell> -0.797624588013 51.2134970973
<AlanBell> ^^ launchpadlib has my location
 * penguin42 changes the launch angle
<Azelphur> http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/February%202011/screenshot_1.png I think I made my phone go fast enough
<AlanBell> now we know why penguin42 is on the run
<SuperMatt> how did you get a screenshot?
<penguin42> AlanBell: The web interface doesn't seem to have a way to set location any more, I could swear it had it when it used to have the map at the bottom
<AlanBell> penguin42: yeah, I guess they optimised that out as they are not using it for anything now
<penguin42> Azelphur: What you running it on? LG Optimus ?
<Azelphur> penguin42: HTC Desire Z overclocked to 1.5ghz (from 800mhz)
<penguin42> Azelphur: Haha cute
<Azelphur> :D
<Azelphur> If I build my own kernel I can get it up to 2ghz maybe further
<Azelphur> but that's kinda scary for more than one reason xD
<penguin42> Azelphur: The burning sensation in your hand?
<Azelphur> indeed xD
<daubers> Evening
<penguin42> Azelphur: Is that a physical hack needed ofr that or just changing a multiplier in software?
<Azelphur> penguin42: you need software and a custom kernel to do it
<penguin42> ok, cute
<brobostigon> new top gear,:)
<MartijnVdS> ooh!
<brobostigon> bbc2
<MartijnVdS> completely forgot
<MartijnVdS> bbc hd ;)
<MartijnVdS> wow, that's timing :) the moment my system went "click" the intro music started :)
<brobostigon> cool, :)
<popey> AlanBell: added myself to the map
<popey> has anyone asked the obvious question, gmaps vs osm?
<james_w> yes
<james_w> <AlanBell> 18:55:12> give me an openstreetmap plugin or recode that one then it will be changed
<ali1234> "plugin"?
 * brobostigon lol's very loudly at clarkson.
<brobostigon> iam having a blond moment, what is that cli prog, that shows me where packets go ontheir way to a specific server?
<brobostigon> and i cant remember what its called.
<oly> james_w, you can use a javascript library called openlayers to embed openstreet maps
<oly> has a neat feature where you can switch the website you use as well
<oly> so you can switch to google maps or various other services if needed
<oly> if thats of any use :)
 * suprengr curse AlanBell's 'chocolate-cake-in-a-mug' recipe... should have a note next to "3 Tablespoons Oil" re "& don't use engine oil" - I'm *never* doing that again - yuk!
<cps> hmm
 * brobostigon decides to go back out after top gear to see his lady friends.
 * suprengr has just realised it should be popey  who gets blamed for the use of engine oil in his cake
<Moniker42> hello ubuntu uk! :)
<Moniker42> popey: what was that multiplayer notepad thing you had on your site a wee while ago?
<popey> etherpad?
<popey> http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/
<Moniker42> yes!
<Moniker42> ta
 * Moniker42 looks to set it up on moniker42.com
<Moniker42> how is everyone, then?
<popey> tickety boo :)
 * mattt just got back from fosdem
<DJones> Isn't a multi-player notpad called irc?
<DJones> s/notpad/notepad
<dutchie> DJones: it doesn't have the fun of being able to change what other people have written
<DJones> dutchie: There is that I guess
<AlanBell> I added a helpful video to the bottom of the page http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/where-are-we/
<dutchie> AlanBell: stray apostrophe!
 * ball resists the urge to add himself
 * dutchie sees whether his login still works
<dutchie> hmm, i seem to have lots it
<dutchie> lost
 * AlanBell removes the apostrophe before anyone notices
<AlanBell> ball: don't resist!
<AlanBell> dutchie: want a new password?
<lazarus_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/563578/ surely i dont need to sudo that much
<dutchie> AlanBell: go on then
<dutchie> not that i go on there ever
<AlanBell> I think you should have an email with it now
<dutchie> it will probably filter through the intertubes at some point
<dutchie> when is it going to go non-beta btw?
<ball> I can't seem to add myself to the map.
<AlanBell> dutchie: real soon now
<AlanBell> ball: any error message?
<ball> I'm not sure how to pacify the "Geographical Position" field.
<lazarus_> http://paste.ubuntu.com/563578/ surely i dont need to sudo that much
<AlanBell> did you click the placy your pin link before submitting?
<ball> Yes
<Venko> Mmmm... I'm just reviewing my data outline for my family tree software and am wondering if its appropriate to include place of death or not. What do you guys think?
<ball> Nothing happened.
<dutchie> Venko: no harm in adding as much data as you have, surely
<ball> Ah, got it now.
<Venko> That's what I thought and it would be useful for visually mapping the birth and death places of people over time (e.g. to see patterns in migration) but my girlfriend just suggested it might be a little too morbid
<ball> Venko: I include that.
<ball> Hmm... I may just install Gnome Ubuntu to see if I can make that do what I'm after.
<Venko> Thanks dutchie and ball for your feedback :)
<ball> I'm on the map :-)
<AlanBell> ok, so what else do we need to tweak on the site before putting it live?
<dutchie> did you get a better uupc logo?
<AlanBell> no, took it off until they restart
<dutchie> ah
<dutchie> how much is the blogging bit going to be used?
<AlanBell> not massively I should think
<AlanBell> used for announcing events, posting reports on events
<AlanBell> and recipies
<dutchie> :)
<suprengr> ;)
<suprengr> no more oil recipes though
 * AlanBell updates http://beta.ubuntu-uk.org/2010/11/10/5-minute-chocolate-cake-in-a-mug/ for the hard of thinking
 * suprengr rolfs
 * popey wonders what AlanBell modified
<ball> I'm going to resort to Ubuntu desktop.
<ball> Let's see if this works.
<AlanBell> s/oil/cooking oil/
<AlanBell> I think suprengr used castrol GTX or something
<popey> brobostigon: mtr
<ball> It is possible to use Ubuntu as a wireless bridge, or as a router?
<ball> s/possible/practical/ ?
<Azelphur> ball possible yes, practical not really, lack of a web UI and huge power consumption make it not worth while
<Azelphur> there are prebuilt distros with web uis and everything you need built in (pfsense) but even then it's not worth it with the power consumption imo
<Azelphur> Pick up a cheap DD-WRT capable router, you can get em for like ~20 squids now.
<ball> Azelphur: Not where I live and not tonight.
<ball> I'm trying to build a temporary solution just to get my wife on-line
<Azelphur>  ball you can enable wifi connection sharing very easily does that help you?
<ball> Azelphur: Probably
<Azelphur> ball how are you connected?
<ball> I may have to download the Alternate ISO.  The normal one isn't booting.
<ball> Azelphur: I have a new wireless LAN and I need to connect some wired PCs to it.
<Azelphur> *confused*
<ball> Azelphur: the wireless router is in another room
<ball> The PCs are wired together, but not to the Internet (any more)
<ball> Trying to bridge that gap.
<ali1234> you don't want to do wireless bridging in station mode, trust me
<ball> ali1234: Why's that?
<ali1234> because it never ever works properly
<popey> +1
<ball> Okay.  Route at layer 3 then?
<ali1234> many cards don't support it at all
<ali1234> the rest just drop out for no reason, lose packets, or jam up the wireless with reflected packets, or other weird stuff
<ali1234> so yeah, just use forwarding/nat
<ali1234> it is really easy to do on ubuntu
<ali1234> first connect on wireless
<ali1234> then go into network manager, select the wired eth, set it to "shared"
<ali1234> that's it
<Azelphur> ^ is what I did when I was on holiday :)
<ali1234> ball: like this: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/htc/Screenshot-6.png
<ali1234> except select the wired eth instead of usb0
<pr0ph3t> hi all
<pr0ph3t> I need to write a .raw image file to a USB disk, how do I do that, with dd?
<popey> sudo dd if=./rawimagefile of=/dev/sdX
<popey> where X is the USB disk
<ball> Do I need to do anything special to serve up dhcp on the wired port?
<popey> ball: i dont think you run dhcp on the wired port, it bridges to your wifi which probably has dhcp server on it doesnt it?
<pr0ph3t> popey, thanks very much
<popey> np
<ball> Wait, I thought I was told /not/ to bridge.
 * ball is confused
<popey> as i understand it, just do what ali1234 said and no more
<ali1234> ball: that's routing, not bridging
<ali1234> actually, it will do nat
<Nafallo> popey: sudo do-as-I-said
<popey> blimey
 * ball waits for someone to make someone else a sandwich
<maco> Nafallo: "sudo do-as-i-said" is just "sudo !!" silly :P
<ali1234> NM will automatically start up a dhcp server
<ali1234> so you don't need to do anything else
<ball> ali1234: Thanks
<Nafallo> maco: *shrugs* I never use !!, I prefer to write it out "just in case"
<ball> I'm now fetching the alternate image.  Hope that works.
<ball> back shortly
<txwikinger> Superbowl is starting!
<ball> txwikinger: puppybowl on the animal planet
<Rado1> hello
<AlanBell> hi
<Rado1> so every buddy here on ubuntu os?
<AlanBell> pretty much
<Rado1> good :)
<AlanBell> night all o/
<Rado1> i just instaled 10.10 version
<Myrtti> Sugru â¥
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-30
<ali1234> oh, i have broken packages
<ant__> hello
<ali1234> bugs bugs bugs
<hamitron> ali1234, in 12.04?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it's not bad for 3 months out though
<ali1234> only three bugs filed so far in the 5 hours i've been using it :)
<ali1234> and nothing has randomly crashed while i wasn't even doing anything yet
<ali1234> in comparison, i filed 4 bugs against 11.10 on monday
<ali1234> er... thursday
<hamitron> I'll probably try it after release
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> oh cool affecting bugs is now an official part of the launchpad UI
<ali1234> i wonder if it is available in the API yet
<phil-wong> hey guys
<phil-wong> do any of you help in terms of contributing to ubuntu?
<ali1234> if you count bug reporting and triage
<ali1234> then yes
<phil-wong> because I want to get more involved
<ali1234> and the occaissional very obvious patch
<phil-wong> but I don't have much technical knowledge
<phil-wong> when I triage stuff, all I'm looking for is the amount of detail in the bug reports
<phil-wong> so yeah, I'm a newbie :)
<ali1234> my bug reports are getting shorter and shorter
<phil-wong> oh dear
<ali1234> this is one of the ones i just made: http://pastebin.com/6Bim3QtB
<ali1234> i would link it, but it is private
<phil-wong> looks good enough
<ali1234> (yes, it contains full backtrace from apport)
<phil-wong> that's all you need :D
<ali1234> really, there is nothing else to say :)
<ali1234> so if you're doing triage you can't really be a newbie
<ali1234> what are you looking to move in to?
<phil-wong> well my background is..
<phil-wong> am I even allowed to say that here?
<ali1234> i dunno?
<ali1234> is it illegal?
<ali1234> if not then you are probably ok
<phil-wong> should be ok
<phil-wong> I'm a 3rd year software eng. student
<phil-wong> now I'm desperately craving IT experience
<ali1234> o_O
<phil-wong> so I'm doing everything I can this year
<ali1234> why wouldn't you be allowed to say that?
<ali1234> anyway
<phil-wong> anyway
<phil-wong> so yeah, I need to just do everything and anything
<ali1234> so you might like to work on bite-size bugs, if you can find any
<ali1234> stuff like memory leaks and segfaults
<phil-wong> sounds good
<phil-wong> I want to start working towards ubuntu membership
<ali1234> the skills you need for this are: knowledge of GDB and debugging symbols, and knowledge of valgrind
<ali1234> i don't know anything about ubuntu membership, i haven't even signed the CoC
<phil-wong> may I know about your background ali?
<phil-wong> I don't even know what GDB and debugging symbols are
<phil-wong> or even valgrind
<ali1234> i'm a CS graduate, currently self-employed
<phil-wong> that sounds awesome
<ali1234> you must know what a debugger is?
<phil-wong> entrepreneurial spirit?
<ali1234> not really, just can't get a proper job
<phil-wong> oh really? I must try even harder then..
<phil-wong> all I know about debugging is
<phil-wong> when you set breakpoints using an IDE
<phil-wong> and do stepping forwards/backwards
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> that's what GDB does
<ali1234> it's the gnu debugger
<phil-wong> I see, I'm not much of a programmer
<ali1234> what is software engineering anyhow?
<phil-wong> basically CS  with less theory
<phil-wong> it seems
<ali1234> doesn't that mean more programming?
<hamitron> some courses cover up the internals of the tools :/
<phil-wong> yes it does, but let's say i'm not in a great uni
<phil-wong> plus the usual student procrastination
<phil-wong> my knowledge goes as far as basic OOP
<ali1234> learn C
<ali1234> (not C++)
<phil-wong> I'm not sure if i'm a coder really
<phil-wong> to be honest
<ali1234> more specifically, learn what is bad about C
<hamitron> I guess it depends what sort of things you are wanting to do? :)
<ali1234> things like buffer overflows and segmentation faults: they all come back to C's use of pointers
<ali1234> new-fangled languages try to hide that from you
<phil-wong> ah I heard about those buffer overflows
<ali1234> but in the end it's how computers work so all they really do is move the problem
<phil-wong> hamitron, I guess that's the main problem, I need to experience a range of different real world IT work
<hamitron> there is IT and there is IT
<hamitron> so many different areas
<hamitron> :/
<phil-wong> it would be good if you can share IT stories of your own
<ali1234> if you don't want to do programming, you could always become a community "flag-waver"
<phil-wong> sorry to change this channel topic to careers
<ali1234> but that's not really something that interests me
<phil-wong> haha flag waver
<hamitron> sounds like you've been taught to churn out applications using languages for faster development
<phil-wong> you mean advertise Ubuntu?
<ali1234> well, sort of
<ali1234> i dunno what those community people do :)
<phil-wong> there's other stuff I checked out
<phil-wong> like documentation, testing etc.
<ali1234> there is documentation?
<phil-wong> yeah basically all the wiki stuff
<ali1234> there's a WIKI??
<phil-wong> I'm sure you know?
<ali1234> next you'll be telling me we have forums
<phil-wong> oh please
<hamitron> adult rated too? ;)
<phil-wong> you don't know about forums?
<ali1234> askubuntu.com is pretty good
<ali1234> i prefer it to forums. a lot.
<phil-wong> never been on askubuntu
<phil-wong> but is the job market very tough at the moment?
<phil-wong> or did you not manage to get IT experience during your studies?
<ali1234> it's hard to say
<ali1234> i don't have anything to compare it with
<hamitron> everything is tough I'm finding
<ali1234> i hear a lot of companies are hiring at the moment
<ali1234> but then they are always hiring
<ali1234> i've no idea how many people are chasing those jobs
<phil-wong> I am looking at graduate schemes at the moment
<phil-wong> but have not applied anywhere yet
<phil-wong> except IBM, actually
<MooDoo> morning all
<AlanBell> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<popey> Morning
<Daviey> moaning
<smittix> Morning o/
<MooDoo> morning
<DJones> qMorning all
 * smittix want's a tux droid
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<knightwise> morning
 * oimon is in quite a good mood considering it's monday
<TheOpenSourcerer> Didn't yOu hear oimon? It's Happy Monday today!
<oimon> i felt it in my bones
<MartijnVdS> I'm going to see if I can get through this snow
<JamesTait> Good morning all!
<Neoti_Laptop> hello all
<knightwise> hey guys , anybody coming to fossdem next weekend ?
<Neoti_Laptop> where is it ?
<knightwise> Brussels
<Neoti_Laptop> agh... lolz nope ... if in the uk then yes but doh... would have gone
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone know if Debian/Ubuntu are going to do the /usr merge as Fedora is? http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/TheCaseForTheUsrMerge
<popey> TheOpenSourcerer: maybe after fedora do it
<popey> and after 12.04!
<TheOpenSourcerer> popey: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA0OTY
<popey> yup, not done yet though
<AlanBell> what is usr short for?
<popey> nice to see fedora doing vaguely controversial stuff, not just us
<TheOpenSourcerer> TY popey - I'm not convinced myself, I kind of liked the separation but do get the rationale for the merging.
<directhex> fedora is where all of lennart's code lands
<popey> allegedly unix system resources
<directhex> so fedora is where all the crazy stuff lands first
<directhex> network-manager, pulseaudio, systemd
<popey> fedora is rhel beta
<jpds> Neoti_Laptop: What's wrong with Brussels?
<popey> its not Lennarts proposal
<popey> he's just championing it
<AlanBell> popey: interesting, thanks. I always thought it was "user" with an AS/400 like dropping of the vowels which I considered a bit odd because it is nothing to do with user stuff
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: Me too, but FHS just calls it a secondary heirarchy: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html
<TheOpenSourcerer> The main diff was/is that /bin /sbin should be there always from boot. whereas /usr can be mounted from a different filesystem subsequently.
<Neoti_Laptop> jpds nothing wrong just im in the uk and can not get to brussels etc... doh!
<bigcalm> Good morning peoples
<mattt> morning all
<oimon> i don't think my browser rendered this page correctly: https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/fromphone/5702799951558140866
<gord> oimon, that link just takes me to my own photos ;)
<diplo> Was about to say :)
<oimon> oh
<oimon> http://ubuntuone.com/0nu7uVuv3IIl1Si7jcPcjz
<diplo> Hmm a tad bit of curruption there :)
<bigcalm> That's pretty!
<oimon> in an unuseful way
<Myrtti> morning UGT
<gord> feeling like switching back to firefox from chrome, its missing all those little things
<popey> http://www.lexaloffle.com/voxatron.php
<popey> love the look of that game
<gord> i feel like i am required to point this out ;) http://www.3ddotgameheroes.com/
<oimon> Myrtti: UGT? ubuntu's got talent?
<popey> oooo
<popey> looks like tilt-shift
<Myrtti> oimon: Universal Greeting Time
<popey> oh, it was in a humble bundle
<popey> not one I bought â¹
<gord> which one? i thought i got all the humble bundles
<gord> oh was a special one dedicated to that game, weird
<gord> i'm done with buying games before they come out ;)
<popey> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humble_Indie_Bundle#Humble_Voxatron_Debut
<oimon> i'm done with buying indie bundles and never playing the games
<oimon> just downloading winscp on a windows laptop. 500k downloads of the sponsored installer versus 500k downloads of the normal installer. hmmm
<oimon> the definition of above average and below average tech intelligence
<bigcalm> Ooo, update to Spotify. Wonder if it gives the full Windows experience now
<bigcalm> No :(
<bigcalm> Now includes 'Top Lists'
<oimon> does it include "more ads"?
<oimon> that's why i moved to grooveshark
<bigcalm> I pay the monthly tax, so shouldn't see ads
<oimon> the audio ads became extremely common
<oimon> every 2 songs i think
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: are you there ?
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<bigcalm> Hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> Scratching my head here. I've been using google calendar with thunderbird for some time. Now I have a need to add a 2nd google account to the calendar yet it won't show it. Just has a yellow warning triangle and the message "The calendar foo.bar is momentarily not available". This is despite setting it up in the same way as the 1st one
<bigcalm> Would be nice to have more information behind the warning
<oimon> bigcalm: you mean lightning addon?
<bigcalm> Yes
<oimon> maybe it is momentarily not available :)
<bigcalm> I just made it work via this method: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=247486#c41
<bigcalm> Which is very silly
<lubotu3> Mozilla bug 247486 in Provider: ICS/WebDAV "can't load several calendars with different passwords on same server/realm" [Major,Resolved: fixed]
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, happy monday
<davmor2> morning all
<czajkowski> davmor2: hello you
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<czajkowski> davmor2: had a great weekened recovering from http://pix.ie/czajkowski/album/432520
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> morning bigcalm MooDoo, czajkowski yes swanning off to Gay Paris :)
<davmor2> new system is performing nicely considering
<gord> considering you put it together? ;)
<andylockran> Howdy All
<andylockran> any London meetups planned anytime soon?
<davmor2> gord: I'm a certified IT Technician I'll have you know,  No I meant in comparison to my old one :)
<gord> davmor2, that means nothing, you have a keyboard designed by the mad hatter. you can not be trusted
<bigcalm> :D
<davmor2> gord: there is nothing wrong with my keyboard layout that a few minutes using it wouldn't solve :P  only weirdo wusses would say other wise :P
<AlanBell> http://pix.ie/czajkowski/2722444/size/800 highbrow cultural visit I see
<bigcalm> Fnar fnar
<AlanBell> it is OK, it is art
<bigcalm> I see!
<davmor2> bigcalm, AlanBell: Which artist thought it would be fun to plaster a pair of ear muffs and call it art?
<TheOpenSourcerer> bigcalm: With regards to your Lightning, multiple calendar thing, the other way is to share those calendars from a different google account "through" the other google account so you have edit rights etc.
<bigcalm> TheOpenSourcerer: ug, I guess that's a way around it. Not one I like the thought of though
<TheOpenSourcerer> That's how I do it right now. I share some calendars from my Google Apps account through my gmail account.
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: I fell out with lightning after being without the Google Calendar plugin for months due to upgrades in versions to thunderbird
<TheOpenSourcerer> I've never used the Google calendar plugin - just use CalDAV.
<bigcalm> Same here
<bigcalm> I even wrote about it as I have a terrible memory: http://www.myrant.net/2011/11/18/google-calendar-in-mozilla-thunderbird-on-ubuntu-11-10/
<bigcalm> The 'fix' of using two different URLs is good enough for me. I only have 2 calendars - work & personal. If I need more from other accounts, I guess I could always share though one or the other
<bigcalm> I shall update the page!
<smittix> I need to get writing up a guide for using the templates folder.
<czajkowski> AlanBell: aye was in the old roman section
<oimon> "Ubuntu 12.04 will be the first Ubuntu release to be offering a 64 bit ISO as the default download. " interesting
<bigcalm> Good
<bigcalm> It needs to stop pandering to the old hardware market and move forwards. Otherwise what progress will there be?
<brobostigon> i can see this causing problems, with people who dont know the difference between 32 and 64bit. and getting the standard, and it failing. and then them complaining.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: 64-bit has been supported on CPUs for a long time now
<MartijnVdS> except Atoms
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: true point, yes, however i still see certain issues, related. however yes, you have a good point, about machines from the last few years, but certainly older machines, i see issues.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: I'm sure they'll revert if there are too many complaints
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: yes, i agree,
<MartijnVdS> Also, if they explain it right, it shouldn't become a huge problem
<oimon> i installed 32bit 10.04 on my core2duo in 2010 because adobe were still fannying around with 64bit versions of their stuff
<shauno> I find it interesting that we assume people buying windows 7 will know the difference between the two architectures, but don't credit linux users with the same knowledge.  I never thought I'd see that day
<oimon> shauno: win7 users usually buy OEM
<shauno> I know plenty that have bought it.  and ubuntu is aiming for oem markets to satisfy those that don't need to know the difference too
<oimon> matlab have decided they only support 64-bit versions for mac. however we have quite a few 32bit users
<oimon> most people will agree it's a good move to go 64-bit by default now
<MartijnVdS> oimon: Time for 128-bit CPUs! :)
<oimon> at worst, it's just another iso to download, or carry in your pocket
<shauno> I think it should have been done a long time ago.  I think so far, it's mostly been nervousness over various non-free binaries (as you point out with adobe), rather than any real technical consideration
<MartijnVdS> 64-bit even has some benefits
<MartijnVdS> >4G RAM support isn't as hacky
<MartijnVdS> address space randomization has more space to randomize in
<oimon> what year did 64-bit become popular on laptops and PCs?
<brobostigon> i will still put 32bit on my live usb, as if i put 64bit onto it, and i still see quite a few 32bit machines out there, i would be stuffed.
<MartijnVdS> (so smaller chance of exploits still working)
<MartijnVdS> oimon: My first machine at my current job was my first 64-bit machine
<MartijnVdS> oimon: late 2005
<directhex> consumer 64-bit is a decade old
<MartijnVdS> directhex: Intel/AMD or Alpha? :)
<oimon> which intel chips?
<oimon> xeon?
<directhex> MartijnVdS, how many consumers ran alpha?
<MartijnVdS> directhex: good point
<shauno> my last 3 laptops have been c2d or later.  2006 onwards.
<directhex> athlon 64 shipped in 2003
<MartijnVdS> Apple's G5 (PPC970) as well
<oimon> rule of thumb may be, if it's too slow to run unity, is probably 32bit
<directhex> pentium 4f shipped in 2005
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I had a 4D with 64-bit, late '05
<Myrtti> hum, question: how does http://www.royalmail.com/postcode-finder/ look like to you? I can't see anything underneath the input box for building number
<oimon> i have some mac mini's here that won't run 64-bit lion
<directhex> oimon, core 1 solo? or not enough ram?
<oimon> directhex: not sure, i asked my colleague to upgrade the machine, he said, not possible
<oimon> possibly firmware
<shauno> iirc the very first generation of intel mac mini were core solo / core duo (not core2), so didn't offer 64bit
<oimon> that may be it
<shauno> (and lion doesn't support ppc, so the generations previous don't work either, but that's kinda outside the scope of this :)
<oimon> they were intel ones
<directhex> oimon, mac mini became 64-bit in mid 2007. they became intel in early 2006
<directhex> model Macmini2,1 and above
<MartijnVdS> that's 5 years ago
<MartijnVdS> also remember, 12.04 = LTS = long support
<MartijnVdS> Imagine where we'll be in 5 years time
<popey> on irc debating the same thing
<directhex> popey++
<oimon> friends and colleagues are buying 8gb RAM PCs mainly it seems
<MartijnVdS> popey: Yay!
<oimon> hopefully i will have kicked the irc habit by then#
<shauno> oimon: we love you too :/
<oimon> :P
<oimon> if i get moved into open plan office then will be tricky to justify (even if my lunch hour like now)
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: have you got 5 minutes, I had an odd request which I think you may be able to help with
<directhex> our main company comms is via irc :p
<popey> same here âº
<directhex> oh, an ikonia
<ikonia> huh
<ikonia> hello
<Myrtti> oh - they use Javascript for some part of the page so it doesn't display right unless javascript is on :-|
<Myrtti> so - nevermind
<oimon> just got press-ganged into a project that will last a year so prob won't be around much anyway
<oimon> the curse of being great
<HazRPG> oimon: hmm, so you won't be around anymore?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: What's up? :)
<HazRPG> \o hi all btw ^_^
<oimon> HazRPG: dunno
<oimon> depends how crazy the workload is
<oimon> hey, just plugged in the charger to my touchpad and it rebooted...hmm
<MartijnVdS> Cray Z?
<HazRPG> oimon: so far most IT jobs I've had, I've managed to justify being able to use IRC ^_^
<oimon> HazRPG: it hampers productivity though, depends how crazy your job is and how much you are micromanaged
<MartijnVdS> HazRPG: "It's for.. research. Purposes. Yes that's it. Research purposes.'
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: can I drop you a pm as it's simple but a bit tricky to explain
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: sure
<oimon> all my non IT colleagues are busy on yammer now
<HazRPG> MartijnVdS: indeed :P
<HazRPG> oimon: this is true
<ubuntubhoy> has anyone used Plasma Active ?
<diplo> oimon, until you wrote Yammer and I googled it I can't say I've heard of it.
 * diplo crawls out from beneath the rock i must have been under :)
<andylockran> hmm, when did ubuntu stop mounting drives in /media/ that were accessed through nautilus?
<andylockran> ie founded 2 x samba drives, and theye not showing in df
<andylockran> but I can browse them in nautilus
<oimon> diplo: the website is indetical to facebook in every way
<oimon> is there any way i can collect history of mentions/irc notifications using xchat, rather than scrollback through history looking for highlightas
<diplo> I'd like that oimon if you work it out :)
<diplo> Never got round to looking into it
<diplo> :/
<smittix> Does anyone else get blurry window captures with "Shutter"
<MartijnVdS> "shutter"?
<smittix> The Screen Capturing software
 * MartijnVdS just presses Print Screen
<smittix> I was struggling capturing context menu's with the print screen button.
<directhex> andylockran, smb mounts are via gvfs
<MartijnVdS> smittix: gnome-screenshot --delay=2 (seconds delay)
<directhex> andylockran, so try ~/.gvfs
<oimon> smittix: i use shutter, no probs here
<smittix> oimon: Weird It looks all blurry for me.
<smittix> MartijnVdS: I will remember that one.
<oimon> using v0.85.1 on lucid
<smittix> MartijnVdS: Did a little tip on nixaddict.com for the Templates folder stuff.
<popey> smittix: not blurry here either
<smittix> Ahh, Within the shutter preview screen it looks blurry. When I go and preview the actual image it looks fine.
<andylockran> ah, ok
<davmor2> smittix: it'll be the compression on the frame size due to the frame being way smaller than most applications/screen sizes
<andylockran> directhex: thanks
<andylockran> that worked
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: you there again please ?
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: Yes? :)
<ikonia> any chance of a quick translation again please. Google gives me the idea but want to make sure I'm spot on
<MartijnVdS> ikonia: sure
<ikonia> I'll send you the URL
<smittix> davmor2: I thought it might have been something like that.
<oimon> what's the best best i can allow a particular user to add applications to the tomcat apps directory?
<oimon> directory is not group-writable ..wondering whether OK to change
<czajkowski> sweet jebus what is going on in that annoying irritaint mbr thread!
<AlanBell> gah, I thought we had settled on sandwich posting
<czajkowski> I've just clicked delete all
<czajkowski> crazy stuff
 * davmor2 prods czajkowski with a "bottom posting only" ink stamp
<czajkowski> davmor2: i do and I snip
 * davmor2 continues to prod czajkowski with the aforementioned ink stamp
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 
 * czajkowski gives daubers some cake 
<davmor2> czajkowski: I'm down your way Friday
<AlanBell> davmor2: not thursday?
<davmor2> AlanBell: normally I go down on a Thursday but I need to meet up with someone whose more easily available on a friday
<czajkowski> davmor2: bah I'm gone friday!!FOSDEM!
<AlanBell> so come thursday evening, drink beer, stay somewhere (loadsa park benches) meet someone on friday
<davmor2> AlanBell: Train is prebooked down friday am and back friday night
<davmor2> AlanBell: to be fair I'll almost certainly be down again at some point, I'd like to try and get down for the release party this time too as I'm hoping to be less swamped
<AlanBell> great
<AlanBell> I am actually in London on Friday too as it happens
<AlanBell> and release party is another thing
<andylockran> ooh, whatÅ happening Friday?
 * andylockran is now in London and really for some geeky socialising
<AlanBell> I emailed Marianna at Canonical about it, asking if they were up to anything and she emailed back asking if the LoCo was up to anything
<AlanBell> andylockran: there appears to be a small crowd assembling at the Cask in Pimlico on Thursday
<popey> â¹  I have another thing to go to on thursday in london
<popey> might go there for a bit then come over to the cask
<andylockran> http://www.sudo.ws/sudo/alerts/sudo_debug.html
<andylockran> doesn appear to be ubuntuÅ current version
<czajkowski> popey: we booked you first :p
<popey> friend is leaving the country
<czajkowski> :(
<daubers> Agernoon
 * AlanBell sends daubers to Ager management classes
<MartijnVdS> \o daubers
<daubers> AlanBell: Could do with them right now :(
<andylockran> Excellent - I should be able to make the Cask
<AlanBell> yay
 * AlanBell wonders if ikonia can make it too
<andylockran> the joys of living joys of living in Brixton
 * davmor2 listening to cd's for the first time in ages 3 cd set called I grew up in the 80's it has some classic tracks
<popey> czajkowski: might have to have a quick one and then come over to the cask
<christel> BEER? did i hear someone mention beer?
<MartijnVdS> hmm beeeeer
<AlanBell> hmm, we have a -uk team meeting scheduled for Thursday
<AlanBell> geeky solution is do it from the pub
<christel> you always schedule meetings for the same time as beer though
<christel> :p
<AlanBell> funny that
<christel> what is thursday beer about? :)
<AlanBell> about??
<christel> as in, is there a Special Reason
<christel> or is it just because beer
<AlanBell> the cask in Pimlico for *no Special Reason*
<christel> nod, sounds like a good reason(!) to me
<czajkowski> christel: they do yummy beers
<Dave2> I want yummy beer
<christel> i'd rather they did gummibears.
<christel> (harr harr harr)
<Dave2> yummy beer made from gummy bears
<Dave2> Now you've made me hungry, and I couldn't stomach my squidgy banana
<christel> aww
<oimon> ubuntu-uk irc : discussions about food mainly, but with a bit of ubuntu thrown in
<Dave2> I might buy a mars bar (it's OK because I'm going to the gym after).
<drhodesmumby> Snickers are better.
<drhodesmumby> Unless you have a peanut allergy I suppose, in which case Snickers would be much, much worse.
<Dave2> I did actually mean Snickers
<drhodesmumby> Then you are forgiven for the heresy.
<directhex> lion!
<directhex> it's even nuttier!
<directhex> also, lions are cool. growl!
<Dave2> I don't think they have them in the work vending machine
 * gord has two launchers on his twin monitors :O
<oimon> we can't have a vending machine cos of helf and safety
<popey> wut
<oimon> yeah
<oimon> apparently something to do with a fire.. if somebody was buying food from the machine, they would get trampled by the crowd or something
<oimon> the excuse was something like that
<popey> yet offices around the acountry have them
<oimon> basically we weren't allowed to have it in the obvious place for "fire reasons"
<davmor2> oimon: WHAT! so you have it in a room rather than a corridor
<oimon> and the premises manager doesn't care even to just install the thing and make the staff happy
<oimon> the same fire reasons that ensured all our doors were replaced by doors 0.6mm thicker
<oimon> 6mm
<oimon> nobody else follows these stupid rules
<oimon> promised myself i wouldn't rant anymore
<oimon> almost got carried away :D
<andylockran> am I imagining things?</rant>
 * daubers makes naan breads
 * dwatkins makes an SSD price comparison spreadsheet
<davmor2> MOO
<zleap> davmor2, hi
<davmor2> zleap: I was here from 11:00 it's just things were so quiet
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i just logged on,
<zleap> maybe people are busy
<davmor2> zleap: that's no excuse ;)
<zleap> lol
<zleap> sorry
<zleap> normally its quite active in here
<davmor2> zleap: I know :)
<davmor2> gord: when is hud out for real I want to see if it installs more packages I'm sure it's broken here till you happen to be  in the same room :D
<gord> not this week :)
<gord> i'll put out a new ppa
<gord> not today
<davmor2> gord: slacker ;)
<daubers> \o/ naan rising, pumpkin and ginger chopped. Now just need to nip out and collect the missus and get some groundnut oil
<Laney> Today I spent 3 hours trying to fix a grub problem that didn't exist
<Laney> "wait longer" worked
<smittix> Evening
<directhex> Laney, computers \o/.
<directhex> Laney, i'm not gonna have many spare cycles tonight. could you possibly do some of the easy 2.10 transition things? i.e.ANAIS for gnome# etc, and mod-mono with build-dep on mono-runtime?
<directhex> or i could bully hyperair into it
<davmor2> daubers: Naan Rising sounds like then next great Zombie movie :D
<davmor2> daubers: the sequel would obviously be Grandad Rising :)
<daubers> davmor2: The third film being Last Nights Curry Rising?
<davmor2> daubers: OMG NO leave Edwina in that coffin ;)
<daubers> davmor2: ewwww
<davmor2> daubers: haha
 * daubers gives davmor2 back to czajkowski
<daubers> I don't want this....
<czajkowski> daubers: why is he mine ?
<daubers> czajkowski: because.....
 * daubers runs away very fast
 * smittix stick his foot out
<AlanBell> so how does empathy and google talk work?
<AlanBell> aquarius: you were playing with it, how do I talk to you?
<aquarius> google talk works for me; you can just set up an account
<aquarius> what I want to do is talk to non-gtalk Jabber people
<smittix> Gtalk on Empathy works very well.
<AlanBell> aquarius: yeah, done that
<AlanBell> I don't know how to find people on gtalk even before going to other networks
<aquarius> AlanBell, ok, then Chat > Add Contact, and add my gmail address
<aquarius> (choose the gtalk version of you in the dropdown)
<aquarius> someone's gtalk ID is their gmail address
<AlanBell> ok, so there is no search
<smittix> My google+ circles show up on Gtalk
<MartijnVdS> yes, that's also the same
<AlanBell> oh is that what they are
<MartijnVdS> google contacts and circles are merging
<AlanBell> aquarius: says you are offline
<AlanBell> like it says everyone is offline, except for Bilal Akhtar for some reason
<aquarius> AlanBell, there is, in theory, a search: Chat > Search for contacts. But it doesn't work for me
<aquarius> AlanBell, try sending me a message?
<AlanBell> can't, you are offline
 * AlanBell is alanbelltolc at gmail
<aquarius> if you double-click an offline person you still get a chat window for them, though
<aquarius> great, empathy crash
<aquarius> :(
<AlanBell> empathy crash here too
<aquarius> and I added you, but you do not show up in my list at all
<aquarius> empathy's quite annoying :(
<AlanBell> in my ubuntu section I have an offline treenaks and no aquarius even though I just added you there
<MartijnVdS> I'm offline
<MartijnVdS> ?
<AlanBell> wow
<AlanBell> it worked
<MartijnVdS> I'm using the web client inside gmail
<MartijnVdS> *waits for tablet and phone to go *ding**
<aquarius> AlanBell, and I can't just chat directly to you (with Chat > New Conversation) because it says "couldn't talk to that contact" without saying why
<smittix> smittix64@gmail.com if anyone wants to add me on gtalk.
 * AlanBell will continue to play with that later
<davmor2> czajkowski: because you love me of course, you know your day isn't complete without a prod of me ;)
<davmor2> off me even
<AlanBell> aquarius: up to this afternoon I had an @googlemail.com account, that might be something to do with it
<popey> aquarius: you're being invoked in linux outlaws
<popey> getting a happy birthday
<popey> aquarius: quick, jump in #sixgun and say thanks
<popey> aquarius: http://65.60.11.2:8216/live
<aquarius> trying to listen
<aquarius> no sound so far from stream
<popey> wfm in vlc
<aquarius> aha, now it works :)
<popey> âº
<czajkowski> davmor2: ah so true
<czajkowski> aquarius: happy birthday!
<aquarius> cheers czajkowski
<davmor2> aquarius: Happy birthday you old coot ;)
<aquarius> cheers davmor2
<smittix> hmm my trackpad has just stopped working.
<smittix> and disk activity light is solid.
<shauno> (I should sit still now; sorry)
<shauno> turns out I somehow had tmux running inside screen inside screen.  which gets even stranger than it sounds like it should
 * AlanBell will have presents for some people on Thursday
 * TheOpenSourcerer is delighted that TB10 which should release tomorrow will be an "ESR" :-D
 * TheOpenSourcerer updates various servers and download locations so that several thousand users stay happy.
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer, i don't believe mozilla.
<AlanBell> is an ESR better than an RMS?
<directhex> AlanBell, "enterprise support release", i.e. LTS
<directhex> not gonna happen
<AlanBell> oh, three weeks rather than two
<directhex> AlanBell, the decadence!
 * AlanBell prepares to do battle with centos and ruby
 * TheOpenSourcerer boots his OSX Hackintosh to try and evaluate a bug report :-(
 * AlanBell wins with sshd on port 80
<brobostigon> :)
<Nafallo> oksohi
<Nafallo> christel, popey: pong
<popey> no idea
<popey> however jpds poke poke poke poke poke poke poke poke pokepokepokepokepokepoekeopkepokeopkeopk
<AlanBell> how do I export proxy settings? I want to do something like export HTTPS_PROXY='http://localhost:3128" I think, but I am not sure that is right
<AlanBell> specifically the HTTPS proxy I want to do
<dogmatic69> new 100 base 220 cable, http://i.imgur.com/9TjD5.jpg
 * AlanBell sorts it out with tsocks
 * AlanBell hopes not to be sent to the tower for this
<Laney> AlanBell: AFAIK these are case sensitive so https_proxy instead (some apps may check both but lowercase is standard for the proxy ones)
<AlanBell> ah, thanks Laney
 * AlanBell grumbles at government IT bods not allowing outbound https
<jimmie> Hey, I tried to install Wine though the software centre and encountered this problem, does anyone have any ideas how to resolve it:
<jimmie> There seems to be a programming error in aptdaemon, the software that allows you to install/remove software and to perform other package management related tasks.
<jimmie> Details: raceback (most recent call last):
<jimmie>   File "/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/aptdaemon/worker.py", line 968, in simulate
<gord> jimmie, not seen that before, but if you open a terminal and run "sudo apt-get install wine" you might have better luck
<AlanBell> or might get a better error message
<jimmie> Better error message, heh.
<jimmie> Alright ill give it a wee go. Cheers.
<jimmie> Does this qualify as a better error? http://pastebin.com/U0a00HKg
<gord> sunjava got removed didn't it?
<jimmie> It may have done.
<jimmie> How would I go about fixing it?
<gord> have you done an apt-get update recently?
<jimmie> About 20 seconds ago
<jimmie> I possibly remember purging java and getting opon jdk6 to make Minecraft work
<jimmie> Would that be the issue?
<gord> oh wait i see, remove the sun-java6-jre package
<gord> jimmie, don't pm without request, its rude ;) sudo apt-get remove sun-java6-jre
<jimmie> Oh I apologise
<gord> if it still complains, run sudo apt-get -f install
<jimmie> Another error unfurtunately
<jimmie> http://pastebin.com/4y21Swbh
<jimmie> *unfortunately
<jimmie> Shouli I just sudo apt-get install sun-java6-jre
<gord> if it still complains, run sudo apt-get -f install
<jimmie> Oh that has filled my terminal with a large licence agreement, do I have to accept that because no typing or clicking is registered
<gord> yeah, it will basically force sun-java6-jre to be installed
<gord> so you can remove it
<jimmie> That has given me a new error, which I guess is progress. http://pastebin.com/KuTxGXJH
<jimmie> Cant figure out whats using it
<gord> sure you don't have a terminal open somewhere still using apt?
<jimmie> One moment. Ill make sure
<jimmie> No I dont, but I still get the error
<gord> hrm, your having a lot of problems today. do sudo rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock
<gord> then sudo dpkg --configure -a
#ubuntu-uk 2012-01-31
<jimmie> That gives me yet another error. http://pastebin.com/ycT5hjng
<jimmie> Seemingly /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process
<jimmie> Are there any commands that let me see which process is using that?
<jimmie> Or should I just restart
<gord> lsof | grep config.dat should let you know
<jimmie> Hurrah. sudo dpkg --configure -a, worked.
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] A year goes past - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/01/30/a-year-goes-past
<jimmie> sudo apt-get remove sun-java6-jre is now giving this error: http://pastebin.com/pjxp0vTE
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Severed Fifth Release Party this Friday in San Francisco - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/01/31/severed-fifth-release-party-this-friday-in-san-francisco/
<shauno> this is just fantastic.  I've been handed a spreadsheet where excel has 'solved' phone numbers. eg, if the numbered was originally +1234-567-8910, it's now "-8243"
<MooDoo> morning all
<daubers> Morning
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning - chilli isn't it?
<popey> Morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Shock, Gasp, Horror! popey reveals he hasn't listened to a podcast for some months!
<popey> well, i listen to linux outlaws live
<popey> usually
<popey> and often listen to bbc comedy, but most others I haven't
<popey> i have no commute now
<TheOpenSourcerer> I haven't listened to one for more months than that...
<TheOpenSourcerer> R4 or Screaming wives/children seems to be about my lot
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol: http://www.quora.com/Engineering-Management/Why-are-software-development-task-estimations-regularly-off-by-a-factor-of-2-3 Flippant and a bit silly but some good stuff in the comments mind.
<DJones> Morning
<popey> http://www.shopono.com/products/Zenithink-ZT280-C71-7-Inch-Android-2.3-512MB-DDR2-4GB-G%252dsensor-WIFI-Camera-Capacitive-Touch-Screen-Tablet-PC.html
<popey> ^^ the tablet that will also be available with KDE plasma
<popey> http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2012/01/reveal.html
<popey> 83 quid for a tablet, not bad
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seems to have gone up in price somewhat when kde is installed though.
<TheOpenSourcerer> â¬200
<popey> yeah
<TheOpenSourcerer> I hope everyone who has to has submitted their tax return? Although apparently you have +2 days extra this year due to a possible strike by some hmrc dudes/
<popey> yay, new toy arrived
<popey> http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/models/
<popey> intensity pro
<selinuxium> Morning all   o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning selinuxium. popey I am still none the wiser really. What's it for exactly?
<popey> video capture card
<selinuxium> Hi popey, how do you do the install whilst leaving your /home intact again?
<daubers> popey: black magic stuff is nice. Got lots of that around the office :)
<popey> yeah, we have one in the office which was bought so we could record that Ubuntu TV demo video you see kicking around
<popey> that was a painful day!
<daubers> heh :) Lots of professional edit houses uses black magic
<daubers> although capture is going out of fashion really quickly
<czajkowski> irksome bug - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/zeitgeist/+bug/896445
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 896445 in zeitgeist (Ubuntu Precise) "fts.py crashed with DatabaseLockError in __init__(): Unable to get write lock on /home/ron/.local/share/zeitgeist/bb.fts.index: already locked" [High,Triaged]
 * daubers ponders wether he should buy a voice recorder thing, or a video camera
<popey> czajkowski: they're all doing it wrong
<popey> czajkowski: they're all using sudo to start graphical apps and they should not be
<popey> they should be using gksudo
<czajkowski> I'm not even doing sudo I just turn on my machine and its crashing:/
<popey> its not that you're doing sudo now, but that you may have in the past
<popey> it's one of those things that people say "well it works for me!" and carry on doing, and then it bites them 6 months later.. like this
 * popey leaves a comment on the bug
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> hmm something is running not using cpu much but making my fans spin like crazy
<popey> woohoo/21
<popey> bah!
<gord> got my good battery life back, put i915.i915_enable_rc6=1 in /etc/default/grub and turned off bluetooth :)
<popey> sweet
<popey> my thinkpad has shipped
<popey> can't wait
<czajkowski> yay NEW TOY!
<MooDoo> :D
<gord> averaging a little under ten watts idle :) makes gord happy
<diplo> Morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :D
<funkyHat> Morning!
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<danhg_>  /join #canonical
<danhg_> hmm
<czajkowski> danhg_: hiya
<TheOpenSourcerer> Anyone familiar with wsgi at all?
<danhg_> Hi czajkowski - are you getting my PVT? Not sure what's working today, having issues with X-Chat...
<czajkowski> danhg_: aye just saw
<popey> daubers: they make nice big videos âº
<popey> I now have a 5 minute video clip which is 20.9GB in size :D
<daubers> popey: :) probably mpeg2?
<popey> Untitled 01.avi: RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 1920 x 1080, ~24 fps, video:, audio: uncompressed PCM (stereo, 48000 Hz)
<daubers> Hmm... ok
<directhex> popey, uncompressed 1080p?
<directhex> actually it seems you have no FourCC identifying the codec
<directhex> or file can't handle whatever it is
<popey> yeah, will see what ffmpeg thinks it is
<popey>     Stream #0.0: Video: rawvideo, uyvy422, 1920x1080, 24 tbr, 24 tbn, 24 tbc
<popey>     Stream #0.1: Audio: pcm_s16le, 48000 Hz, 2 channels, s16, 1536 kb/s
<popey> golly they have properly gone and changed the ffmpeg command line now
<popey> it's avconv, not ffmpeg
<popey> sadface
<directhex> 48khz stereo? that's not hd. i demand 192khz 7.1!
<directhex> also, sadface. i got my mother an internet-capable blu-ray player for xmas, for iplayer 'n' stuff. but their dsl is too slow to use it
<gord> so. i have a javascript face detector that puts moustaches on faces. - i also have uds group photos. had to be done. http://www.easymustache.com/#http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.pixoulphotography.com%2FEvents%2FUDS-Precise%2Fi-TvBwpKk%2F1%2FXL%2F20111102-145457-UDSPrecise-XL.jpg
<oimon> gord: genius
<popey> haha
<gord> i personally enjoy how mark just looks like that one time he didn't shave for a month
<popey> pitti looks cool
<gord> kenvandine looks cool, i think he should grow a moustache - suits him
<AlanBell> czajkowski didn't get one
<czajkowski> neither did the guy to the left of colin watson
<oimon> pringles moustaches
<czajkowski> or chalesK
<oimon> or mr pontipine for those parents
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/823664/ to reboot or not to reboot, that is the question
<AlanBell> oh, actually I spot the problem, it was gord's fault
<gord> eh?
 * popey wonders why AlanBell is upgrading and not dist-upgrading
<AlanBell> oh I did dist-upgrade
<AlanBell> just did that again to get the error message to paste
<AlanBell> gord: I added /usr/sbin/grub-mkconfig: 35: /etc/default/grub: i915.i915_enable_rc6=1: not foun
<gord> AlanBell, oh no, you have to add it to the kernel cmdline
<gord> not just to the file
<popey> gord: got a magic fix for texture corruption on sandybridge? â¹
<gord> you also have to have a sandybridge device iirc ;)
<gord> popey, turn that ^^^ off
<gord> graphics corruption + power savings or no power savings and no graphics corruption
<AlanBell> gord: I have a core i3 with integrated graphics, never figured out if it was sandybridge
<popey> i dont have it on
<AlanBell> yay, works now
<gord> ah, that is what works for me =\
<popey> oh, you get reduced corruption from that line?
<gord> from switching that line off
<gord> with it on i get corruption
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<oimon> hello brobostigon
<brobostigon> hello oimon
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod
<popey> UK list is a bit quiet these days
<oimon> wasn't there just a big troll-fest last week on there?
<AlanBell> that wasn't trolling
<AlanBell> just a spirited debate over a pointless issue
<oimon> somebody should draw a graph of the bottom/top posting cycle. would be interesting to see
<AlanBell> 40
<AlanBell> fail
<oimon> and also to predict the next phase
<daubers> popey: I've seen quite a few lists turn a bit quiet recently
<daubers> popey: I've also seen one get quite a bit more active
<oimon> i don't subscribe to uk list, but occasionally browse the archives when i remember to
<gord> i've stopped liking mailing lists all together - too much anonymizing and opinion spouting. like writing on a bathroom wall
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: just a quick note to thank you, I managed to find two of the products from the shop yesterday, one new and one used, I took them both, thank you
<ikonia> MartijnVdS: made a big difference
<oimon> what useful stuff does google earth add that isn't on the maps.google site?
<hoover> hi folks
<oimon> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=A-vBbqamNBU#! cute Qt on rPi
<smittix> Alreet all
<popey> nice
<oimon> it's too cold to go out and get lunch :(
<mattt> who's off to fosdem this weekend?
<awilkins> Oh, Belgium
<mattt> awilkins: take that as a no?  :)
<awilkins> Alas, no. As much as I like mayonnaise on french fries.
 * awilkins is on leave for the week and needs to be occupied.
<oimon> were you quoting zaphod b?
<awilkins> oimon, It was definitely something from Adams
 * DJones directs the St Pauls protesters to occupy awilkins 
<oimon> there are protesters at st pauls?
<awilkins> The ones in Leeds have all gone
<oimon> well it got cold again didn't it?
<oimon> or they ran out of fags
<simondbull> haven't the police cleared the protestors out of St. Pauls yet?
<awilkins> Splitters
 * popey puts evil nonfree ffmpeg^H libav in his ppa
<oimon> nice
<aquarius> OK. Looking for recommendations (for a friend of mine) for a machine which looks pretty and runs Ubuntu well, with 15" screen and backlit keyboard, that isn't a macbook.
<simondbull> by police, i meant the emergency services, NOT sting and co.
<oimon> aquarius: did you see HP are doing a macbook air clone? http://gizmodo.com/5874613/hps-ultrabook-is-made-out-of-glass
<oimon> 14 inch though
<awilkins> I can just imagine them fleeing in droves "Noooo! Don't play 'Roxanne' again!"
<ahayzen> aquarius: System76 laptop are supposed to be good, http://www.system76.com/laptops/ But I've never had one - yet ;)
<aquarius> oimon, I did; heard a couple of dudes talking about HP ultrabooks at ces.
<aquarius> ultrabooks have too-small screens for this guy, though
<awilkins> aquarius, Work just provided a humungous 17" Dell with a backlit keyboard
<awilkins> It's pretty - but also pretty heavy
<aquarius> I have my doubts about system76, especially since he wants to dual-boot with Windows
<aquarius> awilkins, ah, yeah, not too heavy, either.
<simondbull> awilkins: they could send a message in a bottle to the protestor's camp asking them to leave ;)
<popey> aquarius: thinkpad
<aquarius> popey, fails the "looks pretty" test, in his opinion.
<aquarius> (and mine, but you know that)
<aquarius> First machine I recommended was the x220 (you see how non-partisan I am!)
<aquarius> his opinion is that it "looks like an Amstrad" ;-)
<popey> lol
<aquarius> and my u300s, which is of course the nicest laptop that's ever existed ever, doesn't have a 15" screen.
<aquarius> he's not bothered about it being ultrabook-light, just not super-heavy
<popey> ok, other lenovos then
<awilkins> My biggest difficulty was finding a laptop with more than 768 vertical pixels that doesn't cost stupid money
<popey> G series
<popey> which are not thinkpad-ugly
<aquarius> what's your reason for recommending lenovo particularly?
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/288823-lenovo-ideapad-z570-laptop-m556uuk
<awilkins> i) They have historically cared about Linux compatibility ii) They have a reputation for being built like tanks
<popey> because I have had sony, toshiba, dell, compaq, hp, fujitsu..
<popey> they all suck
<aquarius> what a festival of plastic death that laptop is ;)
<aquarius> OK. Sony are bad for Ubuntu and eye-bleedingly expensive (pretty, mark you). Tosh are just pony. Dells are OK, though? Compaq/HP... seem to be dying in the market. Fujitsu I have the impression are not good with Ubuntu. Do Samsung do full-size laptops?
<awilkins> Current machines ; HP G72 - slightly odd ACPI compatibility, not all the keys work, otherwise very nice
<popey> dell is least-worst of that list
<czajkowski> aquarius: oi tosh are not ponies!
<popey> they are poorly constructed plastic crap
<popey> with a bios from 1982
<awilkins> Compaq (aka HP) 6910p ; compatible, not unattractive
<aquarius> my mate is a Mac guy exploring the idea of moving to Ubuntu, so that gives you a sense of his preferred aesthetic.
<popey> sony then aquarius
<aquarius> czajkowski, counterpoint: yes they are
<aquarius> popey, sony have horrible, horrible Ubuntu support :(
<popey> I have one that fell apart in 8 months
<popey> aquarius: not all
<aquarius> o rly?
<awilkins> Dell high end workstation laptop (don't know model number) ; 17" Core i7 Quad, 8GB of RAM ; pretty ; but very heavy - compatible
<popey> some are all-intel inside
<popey> we stuck a USB stick in one at UDS in MTV
<popey> in SFO in the computer place remember?
<awilkins> Sony ; hate hate hate hate hate
<aquarius> can you name a pretty great-Ubuntu-support Sony machine?
<awilkins> Awful hardware, concentrate mostly on prettiness it seems
<czajkowski> I could never get the sony keys to work under Ubuntu
<popey> VGN-Z540
<czajkowski> this machine bar a few tweeks  at instal has worked superb on Precise
<directhex> vaios are built terribly
<popey> oh, thats an old one
<popey> yeah, my vaio fell apart too â¹
<directhex> there's no such thing as a happy vaio owner, just sad vaio owners and soon-to-be-sad vaio owners
<awilkins> Out of all of the lines I've actually tried, I think HP have been the best, but I suspect that's because I never get my hands on Lenovos
<awilkins> I would avoid Fujitsu and Sony like the plague
 * aquarius cackles. OK, no sonys then :)
<popey> so dell
<aquarius> So, we're looking at Dell or Lenovo, then?
<popey> the one that victorp has is cute
<popey> quite robust looking too, bit industrial like a thinkpad tho
<aquarius> czajkowski, toshibas are horrible plastic nightmares :)
<awilkins> Dell also own Alienware, which are not Mac pretty but can be Ricer Pretty
<aquarius> haha my mate is not gonna groove to the Alienware neon vibe, trust me :)
<directhex> i liked my last dell
<davmor2> aquarius: lenovo, hp, samsung, asus, acer and dell
<directhex> honestly, i did
<aquarius> I liked my last Dell, too
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/search?page=1&sort=relevancy&limit=10&filtercat=10&filterca140=15
<directhex> the dell i had before that as built like a tank too
<victorp> what.. me .. cute?
<popey> only on weekends
<czajkowski> aquarius: we can agree to disagree shall we
<aquarius> hm, asus and acer. Didn't think of them. Do they do full-size laptops with good Ubuntu support?
<aquarius> czajkowski, sounds a fair plan :)
<directhex> usually i'd pick a high-end latitude above a thinkpad, given the option
<aquarius> victorp, what's your laptop, my man?
<directhex> but with an office flooded with thinkpad docks and chargers...
<victorp> latitude 2120
<popey> http://www.ebuyer.com/339443-exdisplay-dell-15r-laptop-intel-core-i5-2410m-2-3ghz-4gb-ram-640gb-hdd-ebr1-5110-3663
<victorp> dell
<popey> bargain
<davmor2> aquarius: ignore czajkowski she disagrees with everyone
<popey> not a bad spec
<victorp> but... not so sure on robustness, I step on it at last UDS and the screen shattered
<aquarius> well, she disagrees with *me* a lot, but that's half the fun :)
<awilkins> I like Asus desktop-PC hardware but have never tried their laptops
<victorp> although I cant blame it
<aquarius> victorp, you *trod* on it??
<aquarius> not sure anyone's laptop is robust against that test ;)
<davmor2> aquarius: samsung, acer and asus all do full laptops, I thought you had a lenovo U300 or am I dreaming?
<victorp> aquarius, probably not
<aquarius> davmor2, I do
<victorp> :)
<victorp> aquarius, I must say replacing the screen was easy enough..
<victorp> popey, but dell also does a fully rugged version
<aquarius> dell website throwing error pags when I try and look at laptops. Useful, Dell.
<popey> aquarius: that ebuyer link above...
<popey> looked it up on the hardware db, looks good
<popey> all intel (bar wifi) inside
<daubers> eww, 10/100 ethernet
<popey> eww wires
<davmor2> aquarius: Wifey had the ubuntu dell machine and has had no issues with it, I have a HP G62 and have had no issues with it after the kernel team enabled the wifi, and I just got an asus mobo in this box if it's build and speed is anything to go by asus lappy should be good
<ahayzen> âPeople liked NASCAR because the constant crashes made it exciting, and this gave me an idea...â ~ Bill Gates on Microsoft Windows
<daubers> wires are essential :)
<aquarius> dell website is completely spedged. Excellent, not.
<davmor2> aquarius: you might want to look at the what hardware works with Ubuntu webpage to help you decide though
<popey> ahayzen: from uncyclopedia .. not known for factual accuracy
<victorp> aquarius, sorry I am late into the conversation but what are you trying to decide?
<ahayzen> popey: It is funny though especially the one on Steve Ballmer
<aquarius> victorp, looking for recommendations (for a friend of mine, currently a Mac user) for a machine which looks pretty and runs Ubuntu well (and can dual-boot with Windows), with 15" screen and backlit keyboard, that isn't a macbook.
<victorp> aquarius, for a friend of mine... yeah right :)
<popey> hah
<aquarius> victorp, I have the Lenovo U300s, which is the best laptop in the world. I'm not looking for another one :)
<victorp> have you checked out the lenovo x1
<davmor2> aquarius: http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/
<awilkins> I love the sailor motif
<oimon> arggh it is *so* cold outside!
<gord> got my laptop up to 9 hours battery :D
<directhex> i need to go outside and do some DIY
<victorp> http://www.asus.com/Notebooks/Special_Edition/ASUSAutomobili_Lamborghini_VX7/
<victorp> honestly.. ^^
<aquarius> victorp, he thinks that Thinkpads look like an Amstrad :)
<awilkins> gord, Precise, one presumes?
<gord> well 9 hours if i don't touch it and have it running nothing
<gord> awilkins, yup
<victorp> aquarius, well.. it is retro-cool :)
<popey> wow
<awilkins> Hah, that Lambo notebook ;smirk
<popey> thats properly the definition of fugly right there
<victorp> aquarius,  fader got this but I am not sure how well it runs http://www.amazon.com/Zenbook-UX21E-DH71-11-6-Inch-Ultrabook-Aluminum/dp/B005SY30I2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323104089&sr=8-1
<awilkins> I prefer the UX31 ; it has a 1600x900 display
<awilkins> But it looks very Mac-Pretty
<aquarius> victorp, yeah, they're nice, but he wants 15" screen which rules out al the ultrabooks. And my u300s is nicer than fader's ux31; we had a fight about that at ces ;)
<popey> hmm, why did I buy an x220 and not an x1?
<oimon> i like thinkpad's but i wouldn't describe them as pretty. some people do :-\
<awilkins> I hate chiclet keys
<popey> pretty in a way only a mummy could love
<gord> the x220 is fairly pretty until you open it
<oimon> the bento box design is deliberate
<victorp> aquarius, I hope he kicked your ass then
<victorp> :)
<awilkins> My requirements for laptop : 1) Ubuntu compatible ('natch) ii) Not chiclet keys iii) Vertical resolution of 900 pixels or higher
<popey> "My wife is gorgeous until you look at her"
<oimon> did someone really say that?
<aquarius> victorp, he tried. I had to eventually concede the marvellousness of his purple jacket :)
<popey> I just did
<dwatkins> Did you get slapped for it, popey? ;)
<victorp> aquarius, and why not a mac?  I think support for them is getting better in Ubuntu
<victorp> apw ^^
<aquarius> victorp, two reasons, (1) popey, (2) he's currently a mac user, and wants to try Ubuntu, and "support is getting better" isn't there yet.
<awilkins> That T520 is probably very nice but doesn't meet the "pretty" requirement...
<awilkins> http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/catalog.workflow:item.detail?GroupID=37&Code=T520_DISCRETE&current-category-id=96EBC6A8C8EC47A59E95B3D5E300F333&tab=2
 * oimon gets great deals on dell kit, shame i can't share them with you
<victorp> aquarius, ah
<aquarius> why do all laptop manufacturers have such lame URLs?
 * daubers wonders what happened to all the independant video games shops
<popey> victorp: i just got rid of my mac
<aquarius> except asus, it seems. nice one asus.
<oimon> daubers: steam?
<victorp> popey - well done! did it hurt?
<oimon> they evaporated ho ho ho
<popey> desura
<directhex> daubers, inability to compete with Game
<victorp> :)
<daubers> oimon: Steam is useless for my type of gaming :)
<popey> hah
<daubers> directhex: I've been into 4 different Game/Gamestation stores yesterday, nont one had the game I was after
<oimon> near me there's a CEX computer exchange
<gord> video game shops are basically pawn shops these days
<gord> don't bother with them
<aquarius> also, stone me, Asus make a lot of laptops
<directhex> daubers, you don't matter, since you're not buying battlefield 3 used
<oimon> kids play their games and sell  them back to shop after 4 weeks
<directhex> daubers, GAME only want to sell you used battlefield 3 and modern warfare 3 for Â£3 off new price
<directhex> anyone else is an outlier and not worth accommodating with shelf space
<daubers> directhex: It also annoys me that they unseal all the games before selling them and their refund policy states you can only return them sealed
<oimon> really?
<oimon> have you requested that they don't do that?
<daubers> Yup. They're supposed to put these stickers on them to show they've been resealed, but largley they don't in a few shops
<daubers> oimon: They do it to take the CD's out of the boxes that go on the shelves
<directhex> they only do it with the fringe games
<directhex> for the major games, they have dummy cases and a stack of sealed pristine games
<daubers> they do it to annoy me :)
<oimon> admittedly i haven't been in game for yonks, and only then to look at wii games
<directhex> it's only the games they have 2 or 3 of where they empty the boxes out & use the real cases as dummies
<aquarius> hey, Asus, let me say "I want a 15" laptop" without going through every laptop and looking at the sizes, eh?
 * ikonia is a dummy
<directhex> agreed
 * daubers gives up and orders some xbee's from an independant electronics stockist instead
<oimon> i bought my laptop from http://www.dell.co.uk/outlet excellent deal
<dwatkins> yeah, Dell's outlet is superb, I got a really cheap desktop from there a few years ago
<oimon> i also managed to get mine fixed 1 day before the 3yr support ran out
<awilkins> I don't really patronise game shops anymore
<awilkins> I'll buy big titles at ASDA because they usually set a good price
<awilkins> But only if I want them while they are new
<ikonia> I need a new laptop but nothing excites me at all
<gord> i just use amazon or an online store in canada
<gord> for imports
<awilkins> I like GOG
<awilkins> I have a nasty feeling that I could basically eat all my time if I spent enough money there
<ikonia> gog ?
<awilkins> They have Baldur's Gate II
<gord> GOG is my favourite retailer of games i keep buying but never playing - because i am just buying games i already beat 10 years ago
<awilkins> I never completed it because my laptop got nicked with disk 2 in it
<dwatkins> gog.com - they adjust games to work on recent operating systems, like Windows 7
<gord> oh you should, it only gets better :)
<awilkins> But I think I must have spent over 80 hours just to get to disk 2
<gord> dwatkins, they just run everything in dosbox ;)
<awilkins> So I shudder to think how much time it would consume if I bought it again
<awilkins> I suppose the loading delays would be much smaller :-)
<awilkins> I never played Planescape : Torment either
<awilkins> So there's another huge chunk of time waiting to be eaten
<oimon> my laptop suffered a weird exploding pixel issue where i think the lcd leaked onto other surrounding http://ubuntuone.com/0bNET47RVWFkHBmPPoNsgE
<awilkins> ikonia, http://gog.com # Good Old Games
<awilkins> Oops, already answered
<simondbull> http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:BillGatesUbuntuLinuxPrpleeeee.png
<simondbull> too true^
<oimon> https://market.android.com/details?id=com.valvesoftware.android.steam.community << what does this do? seems like a chat client and advertising portal for steam games for now
<directhex> oimon, correct.
<directhex> oimon, steam chat, and store access
<dwatkins> yep, or you can browse screenshots and buy games
<oimon> "buy games"..pay money but download later on your pc
<oimon> it seems like passwords and security got thrown out of the window with mobile devices.
<oimon> it doesn't even seem possible to have user profiles on android tablets
<oimon> so my missis and 2yr old have to use my setup?
<dwatkins> I thought there was a guest mode for Android
<oimon> oh, never seen that
<directhex> tablets aren't multi-user, true
<directhex> one per family member is the model!
<oimon> and yet we keep on complying
<directhex> everyone wants a tablet. general-use computers are for chumps
<awilkins> So : Phantom Menace in 3D .... MEEEEEH
<AlanBell> jar jar binks in 3d \o/
<oimon> devices with replaceable batteries are for mugs too :D
<awilkins> Jar Jar Binks lifesize animatronic doll that pleads for it's life when you beat it up \o/
<directhex> awilkins, i'm not a fan of converted-to-3d-in-post films at the best of times
<AlanBell> I am amazed it works at all
<oimon> i guess they just draw outlines around the characters
<directhex> paralax up in this bitch
<oimon> did anyone watch the fan-sourced scene-for-scene copy of EP IV ?
<directhex> they already have the foreground and background separately composited
<AlanBell> oimon: no it is done with crunchy computers
<directhex> so they just shift the focal point on the background comp to add a fake second camera
<oimon> ive never seen a 3d film
<oimon> i reckon it would make me feel sick
<directhex> oimon, fixed focal point. some people can view it, some can't
<oimon> even sitting in the front half of the cinema makes me and the missis feel motion sick
<AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2D_to_3D_Conversion
<awilkins> I usually feel fine, but I saw some stuff at Disney that made me feel sick
<oimon> that's understandable awilkins
<awilkins> The worst thing was the Aladdin VR helmet thing
<directhex> awilkins, most of disney's tech is ancient
<awilkins> I think it was the disconnect between the proprioception in my brain and the 3D landscape
<directhex> like 20 years old minimum. it's terrible 3d
<awilkins> Yeah, I got the sense that the older 3D is more vomitworthy
<awilkins> Had the cold sweats and everything
<oimon> offtopic, i've seen a few people posting spam links on facebook today. then they complain they "got hacked" but don't remove the link/status update containing the spam :(
<shauno> that one's easily solved; stay off facebook at work :)
<oimon> but it's lunchtuime :D
<directhex> i have a 3d tv, 3d games, and 3d movies. i get a sense of what sucks and what doesn't
<ikonia> directhex: share your views
<awilkins> I quite fancy a 3D monitor for my gaming PC sometimes - not sure if my lowly 560Ti can hack it though
<davmor2> directhex: Stop calling them 3d they are 2 1/2d at best ;)
<awilkins> davmor2, Yeah, but so is our human viewpoint - we perceive a 2 dimensional projection of three dimensions, just like they provide on a screen
<awilkins> The only difference being that we can move our viewpoint in the world
<ikonia> directhex: are you still dissapointed with content volume /
<hamitron> davmor2, 2d*2d = 4d^4
<hamitron> davmor2, 2d*2d = 4d^2
<directhex> ikonia, mostly annoyed with pricing and exclusivity deals which seem designed to prevent 3d adoption
<hamitron> bah :/
<ikonia> directhex: have you tried sky's offering at all ?
<davmor2> awilkins: Nope because we can walk behind a thing and see the rest of it, bring on the starwars holograms then we are talking proper 3d
<hamitron> so it is single point 3d?
<directhex> ikonia, i can't fathom how mentally subnormal the studios need to be in order to make a technology a large percentage of the population are kinda leery about orders of magnitude more costly than non-3d, such that only complete berks like me buy into it
<directhex> ikonia, i don't have Â£720 a year for sky3d
 * daubers has wondered how long people have been locking at line segments on a screen for
<ikonia> directhex: subscription = waste, just curious if you'd seen/tried it
<awilkins> I think the BBC showed "Strictly" in 3D on their HD channel
<directhex> ikonia, seen it, yes. father in law has it
<ikonia> awilkins: nope
<awilkins> Flavia's legs in HD / 3D would probably be worth it :-)
<ikonia> directhex: thoughts on it
<oimon> nice. my vsphere install is failing to update. good enterprise software
<directhex> the bbc have shown 3c content on bbc hd, using side-by-side transmission
<MooDoo> +1 awilkins
 * hamitron wouldn't say "no" to any of them
<directhex> i.e. you set your TV to do manual 3d compsiting, and the output is half resolution (920x1080 per eye)
<davmor2> So okay guys serious question time,  Who uses an unlimited streaming movie service and would they recommend it?
<popey> by "unlimited streaming" do you mean newsgroups?
<ikonia> directhex: doesn't sound like it's thought through as a service
<hamitron> :|
<directhex> ikonia, good 3d content is good. i guess if you already have a reasonably high end sky sub, consider sky 3d. if you're not already paying them a lot, the price jump isn't worth it
<ikonia> popey: quote of the day
<davmor2> popey: no like love film, net flix etc
<popey> netflix have old films
<ikonia> directhex: not got a 3d TV, not convinced by the update at this time
<shauno> I really want to, but netflix's catalogue is still subpar.  (unless you're a fan of bollywood)
<popey> and silverlight
<directhex> ikonia, sky's 3d channel is in packed bitframe format, i.e. if you have a full 3d hdmi chain from sky box to tv, then the tv just works, and shows full resolution per eye
<awilkins> It's the long tail again ; if you are OK with not talking about the latest content round the watercooler (as geeks I suspect we're not bothered), then a 10 year latency on your media stream is just fine
<hamitron> I reckon 3d is still more worthwhile for gaming
<directhex> ikonia, bbc hd is a 2d channel, but you can always transmit two 2d signals side by side, and every 3d tv is capable of various recompositing modes, for non-packed-bitframe sources
<ikonia> directhex: not quite ready to move onto that band wagon yet
<directhex> hamitron is spot on. 3d gaming is the shiznitz
<directhex> wipeout in 3d is OMG
<ikonia> ahh gaming I could do
<hamitron> "in the game", visually must really add to it
<oimon> davmor2: i had a link showing which programmes were available on which service, i'll see if i can find it.
<hamitron> only thing better, would be to be able to look around
<awilkins> Yeah, the problem with looking around is that the screen doesn't move even if you have a head tracking controller
<davmor2> oimon: that would be great ta
<awilkins> And if you have a head-mounted screen, the latency has to be really low or you puke
<hamitron> so not wireless
<oimon> it seems you can't search your own g+ feed :(
<hamitron> but I'd be willing to pay Â£500 for a headset
<hamitron> if it was decent
<hamitron> ideally 3d too
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> but 2d would be fine
<awilkins> A full HD pair of VRD (virtual retinal display) elements would be super
<awilkins> If they also had a full HD LCD mask shutter behind them, even better
<oimon> davmor2: http://www.tnl.net/blog/2012/01/21/the-2011-state-of-internet-vod-tv/
<davmor2> oimon: ta
<oimon> might not be exactly what ur after, but still of interest
<awilkins> "New, Reality + head up goggles. Mask out the bits of life you DON'T want to see, and replace them with what you DO"
 * hamitron unticks "clothed"
<dogmatic69> any tricks to printing to a wifi printer?
<czajkowski> dogmatic69: nope should just work
<czajkowski> dogmatic69: connect to it on the network and file print
<hamitron> but in all seriousness, I'd be happy if I could just look around in a racing game, and experience the feel of 3d
 * daubers goes to try and find a windows xp machine in the building
<czajkowski> working fine here on a O and a P machine
<oimon> davmor2: also this post contains info about films http://www.tnl.net/blog/2012/01/28/streaming-held-back/ << netflix looking pretty lame to me
<Darael> dogmatic69: Have one that's not listed in the open printing database as a paperweight.  Otherwise, don't think so.
<shauno> the trick with netflix appears to be that if you're "on holiday" in the US, you're "restricted to" the US catalogue.
<dogmatic69> czajkowski: I dont see it anywhere, should I add it in printers first?
<oimon> " Only 43% of the top 50 British films can be bought or rented online. Similarly, only 58% of the BAFTA Best Film award winners since 1960 have been made available."
<oimon> http://www.openrightsgroup.org/ourwork/reports/cant-look-now:-finding-film-online
<czajkowski> dogmatic69: you stil need to add the printer to your network like you would do if you were connecting to it directly
<czajkowski> dogmatic69: so under printers add a new printer via the network
<czajkowski> and add it there
<czajkowski> then print once added
<dogmatic69> think I just got it sorted.. trying to open 'networks' in nautilis was moaning, had to install gvfs-backends
<dogmatic69> now I can open networks window and see something
<dogmatic69> thanks, seems to have it. trying to install drivers :S
<apw> victorp, mac are always trouble, they change them without warning
<czajkowski> dogmatic69: shouldnt really have to add drivers a lot are already there
<dogmatic69> not mine :/
<dogmatic69> x4875
<victorp> apw - bastards!
<dogmatic69> (lexmark) there are some x46 somethings
<smittix> Yay, my website stats are going up already. which is always a good thing.
<oimon> i wish international travel wasn't a requirement for working with canonical
<czajkowski> who doesnt like to travel!
<davmor2> oimon: why?
<oimon> i really don't like flying
<oimon> or business travel in general tbh
<czajkowski> sladen: ping
<ikonia> it can be a real drag oimon I feel your pain
<oimon> ikonia: had a lot of bad experiences that kind of conditioned me into hating it
<davmor2> oimon: man it's a huge adventure for me everytime I go :)
<oimon> e.g. you must achieve this objective in NY within 5 days. no extensions
<ikonia> oimon: I had some nice travel and some not so nice travel but the concept of regular travel can be negative depending on your situation at that time
<oimon> you have 3 days in italy to roll out this deployment. btw nobody speaks english
<daubers> I'd be tempted by any job that meant I didn't have to go into London
<oimon> then your plane gets diverted 50 miles away due to fog.
<davmor2> daubers: I hate London it's a huge rip off but I need to go from time to time like errrmmmm Friday for example cause that happens to be where the people I need to talk to are and face to face is easier than over the phone
<oimon> all the italians wander off than do their thing. english guy left trying to find a bus to the city
<czajkowski> oimon: meh maps
<awilkins> Are we talking hardware deployment .. I quite like our server infrastructure, with the right passwords you can install an OS from scratch without entering the datacentre
<mattt> oimon: hahaha
<oimon> pre smartphone days
<daubers> davmor2: The vast majority of the UK Media industry are in London, so I have to go there too often to either fix broken things or design new things to fix a weird workflow
<czajkowski> oimon: I didnt say a smart phone I said a map
<mattt> oimon: i'm with you man
<oimon> czajkowski: do i take a detailed map of every possible airport and city we could land at?
<czajkowski> I get one at every airport I land in
<czajkowski> that is why they ahve them there free for folks to pick up
<oimon> this was a backup airfield i think
<oimon> i also got chased by sicilian muggers once
<mattt> :P
<oimon> the company got me a hotel in the grim area of town
<oimon> note: jolly hotel is not jolly
<oimon> also, glasgow prestwick is not in glasgow
<mattt> ha
<czajkowski> nope its not but alot of EU counteries have multipe airports and not all are city center
<czajkowski> standsted is a prime example of one
<oimon> prestwick is about the same distance from glasgow as edinburgh is
<oimon> "glasgow edinburgh"
<mattt> not all travelling is bad
<mattt> but i think some places make it more difficult than others
<mattt> "guilty until proven innocent"
<oimon> yeah, never wear a casio F91W watch to the US
<mgdm> heh heh
<oimon> i made the mistake of missing a section of an unclear form in customs and the guy almost wanted to kill me.
<mgdm> I have one of those
<mattt> or never have cat5 cables hanging out of your bag while going through customs
<oimon> he went mental when i returned to my place in the queue to make the 1 line change. "GET TO THE BACK OF THE QUEUE...now NEXT...5 people behind me suddenly realise they have done the same thing on the form as me,...nobody wants to approach the mad guy"
<oimon> somebody got sent home from US visit the other day after making a joke on twitter about digging up marilyn monroe
<gordonjcp> yeah, I saw that
<gordonjcp> I don't think there's anything that could convince me to travel to the US, now
<popey> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/red-hat-extends-red-hat-enterprise-linux-lifecycle-to-ten-years/10237
<popey> golly
<mattt> pity the developer that gets roped into that platform
<directhex> i wouldn't want to be the chump supporting 10 year old libs
<oimon> i discovered i have 1 RH4 box
<oimon> all others are 5 & 6
<oimon> 6 has been a bit of nightmare though
<mgdm> popey: oh no :(
<ali1234> does raspberry pi have an irc channel?
<awilkins> ali1234, It seems to have more users than this one #raspberrypi
<ali1234> awesome
<oimon> its the unofficial one
<ali1234> i was just browsing their forums and the types of question i want to ask always get replies like "you shouldn't do that it's too hard lol"
<ali1234> and now their database has crashed
<czajkowski> yup
<oimon> http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/592 is interesting post today
<ali1234> oimon: we already knew all that
<ali1234> standard practice for socs really
<oimon> ali1234: nice of them to explain it all to those not so acquainted with ARM SoC though
<oimon> like me
<ali1234> all you need to know is you need a binary driver to make it do anything video related
<ali1234> everything else has open source drivers, but no documentation other than the code
<oimon> debian should be possible with binary driver though
<ali1234> of course, what i actually meant to say was "standard practice for broadcom"
<ali1234> yes, but suppose you have a question like "what is the maximum SPI clock frequency, and where are the registers to set it?"
<ali1234> the datasheet would tell you that, if it were available
<ali1234> or, "how do i configure overscan on the composite video out?"
<AlanBell> ali1234: eben would know
<AlanBell> ooh I know what goes in overscan
<awilkins> Teletext?
<AlanBell> yup
<ali1234> actually it doesn't
<awilkins> Teletext goes in VBI
<ali1234> but regardless
<ali1234> having one guy knowing this stuff is going to get old fast
<ali1234> we need the datasheet
<awilkins> Chain him to a laptop configured to only allow him to i) Watch IRC for questions ii) Author wiki pages
<awilkins> For maximum irony, make the computer a Raspberry Pi
<gord> i though the raspberrypi used hdmi not composite video out?
<sladen> czajkowski: yo
<ali1234> gord it has both
<ali1234> how they are related is undefined though
<gord> hrm
<sladen> oimon: I do most of the Canonical business travel /without/ flying!
<czajkowski> sladen: shal we be seeing you at FOSDEM this weeekend ?
<ali1234> it's not clear if the composite out is just a cheap ass scaler, or an actual real output
<sladen> czajkowski: dunno.  Normally I'd say yes, but I haven't arranged anything
<oimon> sladen: nice work - eurostar?
<gord> wouldn't mind replacing my revos with raspberry pi's
<czajkowski> sladen: boooo
<sladen> oimon: Hoek-van-Holland to Harwich Ferry yesterday, but yes, frequently the journies in Europe start off with the Eurostar to Brussels
<sladen> oimon: and the trip, to Orlando started off with a posh ferry called the QM2 between Southampton and New York
<sladen> gord: I have your bottle of shampoo, carefully transported across Europe
<gord> sladen, consider it a present, from me, to you ;) (throw it in the bin)
<gord> i don't take body wash back home when flying, it explodes too much
<sladen> urgh
<sladen> er.  ni-ice
 * awilkins wonders why Cursum Perficio by Enya has spontaneously arisen in his head
<aquarius> update on laptop-for-friend search: current top of the list is the HP Envy 17, and that looks like it has reasonable Ubuntu support according to Google. Any big reasons why not? (Note: I quite like HPs.)
<oimon> sladen: you seriously took a boat to the states?
<czajkowski> oimon: you've clearly not met sladen
<oimon> no. although i'm not sure i could handle the length of the boat journey either
<sladen> oimon: just don't go then!
<oimon> i don't :D
<awilkins> aquarius, I like the potential for 3 displays on that thing :-)
<czajkowski> oimon: so no to planes and no to boats, how are you with trains or do you walk most places?
<sladen> (it's worth saying that Canonical are accepting and generally accomodating)
<sladen> happy people etc
<oimon> i used to go abroad more, i just stopped enjoying it a few years ago
<oimon> fortunately my wife's ideal holiday is hiding away in devon+cornwall
<oimon> i guess i'll have to get over it since my sis lives in denmark
<oimon> and she would like a visit
<oimon> just got a Â£2000 credit card bill ...ooof
<mattt> oimon: hope the real doll is worth it
 * dwatkins is rearranging money to pay off a credit card and overdraft
 * czajkowski hugs popey 
<daubers> bah, blasted estate agents not updating their websites
<dwatkins> daubers: I had that when I last moved house, was immeisely frustrating
<davmor2> czajkowski: I think you mean Epic Brian ;)
<daubers> dwatkins: I've just asked about 6 properties with an estate agent. All on their website saying "Must be viewed" all sold!
<daubers> dwatkins: Chap didn't seem very impressed when I asked if they actually had any properties currently for sale
<dwatkins> daubers: yeah, they're still not moving with the times (don't get me started on the film industry...) although there are a few who are better than others.
<dwatkins> I gather rightmove and espc are sites that estate agents register with, but they might be worth a look
<daubers> dwatkins: They have the same problem but tend to be further out of date
<dwatkins> ah that's a shame
<daubers> They both depend on the estate agents updating things
<popey> odd
<popey> my keyboad now has a time delay
 * popey pokes gord 
<dwatkins> USB or wifi, popey?
<popey> usb
<gord> hello
<dwatkins> I assume you've tried reconnecting it
<gord> what did i do?
<gord> you can't blame me for that!
<popey> wondered if you had done aything to mitigate hud :D
<popey> i have dwatkins
<popey> reboted and its like tping through teacle
<popey> ^ seee
<dwatkins> I vaguely remember having something similar a long while back due to a noisy device on the USB bus
<popey> hmmm
<popey> could be dodgy cable
<popey> have moved to directly plugged in, much better
<popey> bum
<dwatkins> ah, hub was bad?
<dwatkins> I have a rather nice R2D2 hub which I barely use, but it sits on my desk and looks neat ;)
<popey> hmmm
<oimon> i still use hub when i mean switch
<popey> its not a hub
<popey> its an extension cable
<oimon> a coupler?
<popey> hmm?
<dwatkins> that reminds me, I should get a new testmeter
<dwatkins> haha, this pricing is insane for a multimeter: Â£0.01 + Â£4.59 shipping
<oimon> how much for 2?
<dwatkins> heh, strangely the shipping doubles as well, oimon
<kirrus> Happens a lot in amazon.. you find books at the same silly pricing, because amazon fix shipping costs
<oimon> well i am surprised
<dwatkins> quite
<popey> hmmm
<popey> whole pc feels slow
<AlanBell> try upgrading to Ubuntu
<popey> it is ubuntu silly
 * AlanBell is silly
<daubers> popey: Give up the dope?
<popey> ooooo
<popey> if I have an external display mirrored with internal display it slows the machine to a crawl
<oimon> weird bug
<popey> disable external display it speeds up
<davmor2> popey: what gfx is in it?
<popey> 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation 2nd Generation Core Processor Family Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09)
<popey> sandybridge i7
<popey> yup reproducable by doing xrandr --output HDMI2 --off
<popey> xrandr --output HDMI2 --auto
<davmor2> popey: that could be why it's better than the 915 but not miraculous ;)
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/824045/
<AlanBell> I don'T know why you would ever want mirrored on
<popey> because you want to look at your laptop and not break your neck to look at the screen behind you
<popey> when giving a presentation
<AlanBell> presenter console ftw
<popey> who says its libreoffice?
<davmor2> AlanBell: presentations, dual tv demos
<popey> note internal at 60Hz, HDMI is 24Hz
<AlanBell> ok, if doing a demo on a projector and there is no aux monitor output from the projector to put a screen on
<popey> my use case is I am recording my desktop with an externel device
<daubers> popey: Did you manage to get rid of your tints?
<AlanBell> fair enough
<popey> no
<shauno> recording with an external device?  and I thought I was messy doing demos in VMs so I could let the host record the screen
<popey> see my G+
<davmor2> popey, daubers: sure just getting a regular hair dye will eradicate popey's tints?
<shauno> you rock sometimes.  popey.com/plus was a blind guess
<aquarius> popey, did you do popey.com/+ as well?
<oimon> finally saw that tv advert with popey in yesterday
<daubers> popey: That's a colour negative, not a tint
<shauno> the vegas one?
<oimon> shauno: i think so
<shauno> hm, or maybe not.  google is determined not to let me sign in with two accounts today
<oimon> i was talking to my wife during the ad break, and out of the corner of my eye i saw popey throwing cash around
<daubers> popey: Can you imagebin the settings you've got for the blackmagic card in control panel?
<daubers> popey: Also did you try it with another HDMI source (DVD player or something)?
<popey> yes, and no, not yet
<shauno> okay, I take back the rocking bit.  popey.com/plus takes me to the wrong popey+ lol
<popey> i dont have another hdmi source handy
<daubers> Ah, ok :)
<popey> shauno: for the migration âº
<daubers> I've asked the people who know more than me and they recon it's either your bm settings or the source
<shauno> and yes the fsf spam is annoying.  I specifically cancelled my membership because all I ever see them do is troll
<popey> shauno: fixed
<popey> daubers: there are no colour settings
<popey> its like the least useful control panel applet ever
<daubers> popey: Screenshot the lot please :)
<popey> ok
<popey> done
<gord> oh you actually have the x220 now popey?
<daubers> Hmmm
<davmor2> It's time to play the music.....
<popey> no gord
<popey> i have an i7 desktop
<gord> ah
<popey> the x220 left china today
<gord> iirc they got it to me the same week i ordered
<daubers> popey: Daft question, the machine you're using as the source, does that still have Windows on it?
<gord> ha! a patch i wrote for totem fixes a bug on the redhat bugzilla. now they *have* to take it!
<popey> daubers: no
<daubers> tried the output from that source on a TV?
<daubers> (people here think it's probably the source)
<popey> well. i can plug that hdmi cable into this screen
<popey> and toggle inputs
<daubers> That might show if it's the output from that machine
<davmor2> gord: don't be daft someone at red hat will just rewrite it ;)
<popey> hmm
<popey> looks fine
<bigcalm> Hi peeps!
<daubers> hmmm
<gord> davmor2, whatever gets the bug fixed :) but to fix the other bug, they have to fix mine too ;)
<popey> but
<bigcalm> Amazing how much more productive I am when IRC is hidden from view
<popey> its at 1080p24
<popey> on the capture card
<popey> it's at 1080p60 on the display
<daubers> hmm
<popey> i have another idea
<popey> i am not connecting the output of the intensity to a screen
<popey> gonna do that
<davmor2> bigcalm: and then you had to come on here and ruin it for every one ;)
<bigcalm> \o/
<bigcalm> I've had to rebuild a dormant machine just to get windows 2008 server running. All just to run MS SQL Server. I don't like that part of this project.
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm sorry you lost me a windows!
<bigcalm> I feel rather lost myself
<bigcalm> Buying ram from PC World is a rip off as well
<bigcalm> 60 quid for 2 gb :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: what ram?
<bigcalm> DDR PC2700
<bigcalm> 29.99 per 1gb stick
<davmor2> That's why
<bigcalm> I was in a rush
<bigcalm> Aye, nobody uses it any more
<davmor2> bigcalm: no it's DDR if it was DDR3 it would of been much cheaper
<bigcalm> And yet the mobo wouldn't be able to take it
<davmor2> bigcalm: I'm assuming you can expense it anyway?
<bigcalm> Well, maybe
<bigcalm> Turns out the machine it was for didn't work any better with it anyway
<bigcalm> That was my old workstation
<bigcalm> I've resorted to using my old mythtv box
<bigcalm> Which I haven't used since getting VM cable
<daubers> popey: If you're still stuck in the morning I can get through to someone at BM support who's generally quite good
<popey> i have sent a support request via their site daubers
<popey> but thanks âº
<daubers> Ah :) Chap called Callum we normally deal with
<brobostigon> helo everyone,
<dwatkins> hi brobostigon
<brobostigon> hi dwatkins
<dwatkins> I've learned that there are hybrid HDD/SSD drives, and am watching comparisons of them on youtube and reading-up on them, looks like it might be a good compromise between speed, capacity and cost.
<directhex> dwatkins, SPOF though
<dwatkins> directhex: it's a laptop, though
<directhex> hm
<dwatkins> I backup the disk to an external device periodically, and anything properly important is also outside
<directhex> i guess :/
<dwatkins> I just want more gigglebytes on my laptop ;)
<brobostigon> it is sad isnt it, when all bbc south have to resort to, is a missing lama, news must be pretty bad.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: "I need more gigglebytes, ROFL"
<brobostigon> or news is very scarce.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: No, all is well in the world. Except for that llama
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha, ummm, well.
<AlanBell> missing llama!
<popey> brobostigon: this is why my wife prefers local news to london news
<popey> she said to me a while ago she doesn't like london news because it's all rape, murder.. bad news
<popey> whereas local news is all "a donkey escaped, but it was found.. here's a donkey picture.."
<gord> texas news is the best, its just "who got shot today"
<brobostigon> popey: so she prefers less importent, less significant news?
<popey> define important/significant
<popey> I'd say it was pretty significant to the llama owner
<AlanBell> . . . from the perspective of a Llama
<brobostigon> but not generally importent nor significant, except for a few enthusiasts.
<popey> its interesting
<popey> "Oh, didnt know they had llamas there"
<popey> "Kids, look its a llama"
<brobostigon> hmmm,
<popey> "whats a llama"
<popey> "Mummy, what's rape"
<popey> etc
<brobostigon> it is maybe easier to explain what a llama is.
<AlanBell> real news like this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16812545
<popey> that is indeed "real" news
<popey> I am going out for curry tonight
<popey> I think this calls for a monster spicy one
<brobostigon> enjoy :)
 * AlanBell isn't sure if that is news
<dwatkins> haha, that's great, AlanBell
<AlanBell> my kids call it hedghog bread because they don't think it looks like a tiger either
<brobostigon> news, a bread being renamed, hmmm.
<popey> i believe these are called "feel good" stories
<popey> or "marketing"
<AlanBell> taste good stories
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> though, it does depend alot on perspective, as popey pointed out, as to what is importent.
<AlanBell> it does, all kinds of things can be news or not news to different people
<brobostigon> for me for example, the autism part of the DSM being reavaluated, is news.
<brobostigon> most people, wouldnt think that is news.
<AlanBell> and in other news (or not) Ubuntu Precise Alpha 2 is on Thursday
<brobostigon> also.
<popey> shave-o-clock
<popey> </news>
<davmor2> so everyone want a laugh what size is you ~/.thunderbird folder
<AlanBell> 19G
<brobostigon> dont use thunderbird, so ir wont exist.
<AlanBell> davmor2: now you show us yours
<brobostigon> nope, no such folder.
<davmor2> AlanBell: 2.7GB nothing like yours :)  but it is still a ridiculous size considering most people use imap
<AlanBell> davmor2: did you think 2.7GB was quite big up to a few minutes ago? :)
<davmor2> AlanBell: best of it is there is no backup/restore feature like there is in evolution so you have to move the entire folder from one machine to another or waste days of hdd activity downloading all the mail afresh
<davmor2> AlanBell: No I thought it was disgusting that it took up so much room
<AlanBell> there are few things cheaper than bits on disks
<shauno> I dunno; 19GB would be almost a fifth of my drive
<davmor2> AlanBell: I know but still that is a ridiculous amount of space,  evo and claws with the same mail take up less than a 1GB
<popey> 8.8G	.thunderbird/
<AlanBell> smallest HDD money can buy is 160GB for less than Â£50, so all my mail is occupying less than Â£10 worth of disk space
<popey> davmor2: even with imap I have it download all mail
<davmor2> popey: I have to in order to filter by BODY text
<davmor2> popey: if you disable downloading you can't filter by body something evo managed grrr hate Thunderbird
<popey> why would you not download?
<popey> come on ups, send me my laptop
<popey> how far away is china?
<popey> sladen: hop on your brompton, there's a good lad, get my laptop
<AlanBell> I want all my mail locally and on the server
<AlanBell> wish thunderbird had a better full text index
<davmor2> My biggest single gripe with TB though is if you hit the N key to go to the next unread email if it needs to change folder it throws up and error window with the error ping asking if you are sure
<aquarius> what's the best way to convert video files in mkv to mp4 on a headless ubuntu box? (I'd like to not have to care about words like "framerate" or "keyframes" here, so something which allows me to specify a "preset" or similar, or doesn't need that at all, would be good.)
<brobostigon> i am happy with k9 on android, and gmail's web interface.
<shauno> I was surprised my laptop only took 3 days to get here from china
<davmor2> aquarius: copy it over to a desktop machine modify it and re-upload it?  I'm guessing that isn't the answer you were after though
<aquarius> davmor2, it is not, because there are more files than I have disc space.
<shauno> I thought I had screenshots of the tracking page, but can't find them now; I remember getting slightly worried when it stopped in kazahkstan for half a day :/
<davmor2> aquarius: I'm assuming it will need to be some mencoder gibberish at a guess but I'm sure someone will let you know
<etneg_> anyone working on ubuntu artwork
<davmor2> aquarius: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MEncoder#Encoding_a_multi_audio_.2F_multi_language_MKV_video_to_an_MP4_with_different_audio_streams
<davmor2> aquarius: I'm assuming you might be able to simplify it a little but it should give you a rough idea
<etneg_> so anyone?
<davmor2> aquarius: or this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1607484  you may want to switch off the delete the mkv file I'm not sure
<davmor2> etneg_:  see if there is an  #ubuntu-artwork channel
<etneg_> i am there already
<davmor2> etneg_: they should be the people to ask then
<etneg_> but wnted to see if there was anyone working on anything in here
<etneg_> like on vectors and such
<davmor2> not me
<aquarius> davmor2, all those scripts are horrible things that make me care about stuff :(
<popey> aquarius: I have awesome ffmpeg powers
<davmor2> aquarius: sorry dude that was the best I could come up with
<aquarius> popey, the point is that I do not ;)
<popey> i am off out for curry. I will solve your problem tomorrow
<popey> *whoosh*
<aquarius> heh
<gord> and like a leaf on the breeze, popeyman was gone
<davmor2> aquarius: just give popey ssh access and let him fix it :)
<popey> well, once launchpad builds by sodding ffmpeg
<popey> sorry, libav
<davmor2> popey: don't break libav again
<popey> ttfn
<gord> aquarius, because no one has mentioned it i think, Handbrake has presets built in and its job is to convert <thing> to mp4. works well enough for me
<gord> has a CLI version
<etneg_> alright
<aquarius> gord, yeah, I'm just checking handbrake now to see if it's in the repos :)
<gord> its not ;)
<gord> but they have their own ppa
<aquarius> bah. why's it not in the repos? :(
<aquarius> ppa, though, so that's not too bad
<davmor2> aquarius: not in repos gord didn't know it had a cli base, won't it try and install all the gui stuff it needs too?
<aquarius> no oneiric version of handbrake in the ppa :(
<gord> can't remember if it has separate packages or not, but generally in those cases, i don't really care if extra gui things get installed at the same time, i have more than 200mb free disk space
<gord> aquarius, they basically compile all the libraries in, just run whatever version its built for
<aquarius> gord, so just grab the natty deb and dpkg -i it?
<aquarius> I mightily fear doing stuff like that
<gord> or just run the natty ppa version
<gord> or wait for popey tomorrow
<gord> its all ffmpeg under the hood
<aquarius> well, the natty version installed, anyway
<aquarius> let's give it a try :)
<aquarius> seems to run, too
<aquarius> assuming the result isn't totally pony, looks like handbrake is the way
<gord> if the result is crap you prolly just need to select a profile - it has high quality ones, iphone ones, things like that
<aquarius> ya. No PS3 profile, sadly
<aquarius> I'm trying it with normal profile right now
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: PS3 plays High profile MP4 fine
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: up to level 3 or 4
<aquarius> 15 minutes to do one video, mind, which means that it's gonna take a day and a half :)
<MartijnVdS> Time for Ivy Bridge (on-CPU H264 encoding acceleration!)
<MartijnVdS> (on-gpu? it's the same chip)
<gord> yeah the ps3 does a bunch of formats. even wmv if you enable it. its just picky about the containers
<MartijnVdS> I love my TV, it eats mkv :)
<gord> i eat ready for breakfast
 * gord could sit and quite it crowd all day
<MartijnVdS> quite..
<zleap> AlanBell, thank you for the e-mail
<davmor2> few more kb to AlanBell 's .thunderbird folder :D
<zleap> :)
<aquarius> bah! handbrake default output not supported on the ps3.
<aquarius> aha part (ii): there is a PS3 preset. Win.
<aquarius> wish I had an ubuntu tv :)
 * aquarius wants *another* 15 minutes
<dwatkins> aquarius: I ended up using fuppes to serve video to my PS3
<aquarius> nfi what fuppes is. :) I'm using rygel.
<dwatkins> fair enough
<dwatkins> same kind of thing, by the look of it
<directhex> i serve straight to my TV
<dwatkins> yeah, I do that too, directhex, with serviio
<directhex> sadly you can't use the same upnp server to serve a samsung tv and a ps3, because upnp is bullpoop
<dwatkins> it requires transcoding, though
<gord> xbmc is what i've settled on, serves all my needs well, has a python plugin api so i write plugins to play internet vidoes too :)
<dwatkins> gord: I look forward to getting myself a Raspberry Pi on which to run XBMC.
<directhex> sony and samsung require slightly different incompatible http headers in their upnp payloads, or they refuse playback
<aquarius> grargh! handbrake cli with PS3 preset still not working on my ps3!
<aquarius> "the data type is unsupported".
<aquarius> off to google
<directhex> aquarius, it is probably rygel and not the file that's at fault
<aquarius> what's the point in having a ps3 preset that doesn't work on the ps3?? why? why would you do this?
<smittix> Evening all
<aquarius> directhex, hm.
<aquarius> directhex, surely rygel isn't altering the file?
<directhex> aquarius, to test, put it on a usb stick & try to play from there
<aquarius> directhex, I mean, other stuff from rygel is working perfectly
<directhex> aquarius, doesn't matter what the file content is. matters what bollocks http headers get sent along with it
<aquarius> rygel is happily sending a zillion other files correctly, so it's not broken always
<aquarius> maybe I should encode to something other than mp4 and see if that helps
<directhex> aquarius, i get that error message on my ps3 when mediatomb is set to send extra samsung-required headers. but it's fine if i set the sony headers back. chances are it's lying when blaming the file - more likely it's the metadata
<aquarius> right
<aquarius> what throws me, though, is that rygel's fine on all the other files
<aquarius> so it's not just bust
<directhex> what mimetype is it sending for the mp4?
<aquarius> don't know
<aquarius> how does one establish this?
<directhex> packet sniffing! \o/
<directhex> upnp is bullshit
<aquarius> I need a upnp browser which prints out the urls it's using I think
<aquarius> and the only one I have is gupnp-av-cp, which does not
<aquarius> is upnp all over udp? rygel doesn't seem to have a port open
<zleap> what does XBMC stand for ?
<mgdm> X-Box Media Centre, originally
<mgdm> since that's what it ran on to start with
<zleap> and its now ported to Linix
<mgdm> I'm not sure if they've done an MMX and said "It doesn't actually mean anything any more", though
<gordonjcp> well
<zleap> ah okj
<mgdm> well, it always ran on Linux, on the original XBox
<gordonjcp> since it no longer runs on Xboxes...
<zleap> i just keep seeing it mentioned and then try and work out how it relates to discussions on Linux forums
<ali1234> upnp is a mix of udp broadcasts and http for the actual file serving
<zleap> ah so it ran on LInux anyway so look ing at the above they are makingone for the raspberry pi
<ali1234> they already ported it
<gordonjcp> mgdm: I thought it ran on the Xbox OS on a "real" Xbox?
<mgdm> gordonjcp: Oh - i had assumed it was on Linux - probably wrong
<directhex> i think xbmc was compiled with a stolen xbox sdk
<directhex> hence why it was only downloadable in binary form from dodgy sites
<gord> mgdm, yeah they have, its just "xbmc" now, it doesn't stand for anything
<gord> which is why i prefer to pronounce it zuhbuhmuc
<ahayzen> Hi ... I'm having a problem where my system locks up and freezes when 'processing triggers for hicolor-theme' occurs via updating. I have been plagued with HDD errors before and suspect something has corrupted. However all the icons in the launcher are now confused and I cannot run update manager as it freezes the system (HDD goes 100% and system locks up). Any ideas? Many thanks Andy
<ali1234> time to buy a new hard drive?
 * bigcalm pokes spotify and virginmedia
<gord> ahayzen, yeah it does sound like your hard-drive is dead, done a file system check?
<bigcalm> One of them is not behaving
<ali1234> check dmesg for ata errors
<ahayzen> ali1234: tried that ... and that one also corrupted
<gord> changed the sata cable? reseated it?
<ali1234> bad ram or power supply then
<ahayzen> it said that my filesystem was already mounted :(
<ali1234> or possibly video card
<ahayzen> ali1234: replaced both RAM and power supply before and i think it is the SATA controllers
<smittix> ahayzen: Tried looking at the SMART Data in Disk utility?
<ali1234> unlikely
<ali1234> possible i suppose
<ahayzen> I had this problem before where the HDD corrupted but i solved it before... however just after running update manager everything froze and HDD went to 100%....
<ahayzen> all i want is for the update manager to actually work and my icons to return to normal... any ideas?
<ali1234> what video card is it?
<ahayzen> Nvidia Geforce 8800 GTS 320 MB
<ali1234> oh...
<ali1234> are you using the nvidia driver, or nouveau (the default one)
<ahayzen> smittix: in SMART it says everything is fine
<ahayzen> ali1234: Running Nvidia driver
<ahayzen> how do you do a filesystem check on a mounted volume?
<ali1234> you don't
<ahayzen> so how do u check the root partition?
<ahayzen> livecd?
<ali1234> sudo touch /forcefsck
<ali1234> then reboot
<ahayzen> ah ok
<ali1234> at least that's how it used to work
<ahayzen> so the 'processing triggers for hicolor-theme' is there anyway to remove and reinstall this? ... Cause it becomes stuck at this point
<ali1234> sudo apt-get purge hicolor-theme
<ali1234> but i very much doubt that will help
<ahayzen> ok i'll try it ... if i disappear it cause the PC has frozen ;) lol
<ali1234> and it will probably try to remove all of ubuntu-desktop or something
<ahayzen> hmmm ...really?
<gordonjcp> ah
<ali1234> hang on
<gordonjcp> the Debian Descent Into Madness
<gordonjcp> when the package manager gets a little confused and goes on a shotgun rampage
<ali1234> !info hicolor-theme
<lubotu3> Package hicolor-theme does not exist in oneiric
<ahayzen> 'apt-cache depends hicolor-theme
<ahayzen> E: No packages found'
<ali1234> huh.
<ahayzen> must be called something else?
<ali1234> does it actually say hicolor-icon-theme
<ali1234> !info hicolor-icon-theme
<lubotu3> hicolor-icon-theme (source: hicolor-icon-theme): default fallback theme for FreeDesktop.org icon themes. In component main, is optional. Version 0.12-1ubuntu1 (oneiric), package size 9 kB, installed size 1436 kB
<mgdm> gordonjcp: given that it deals with packages, I'm sure there's a "going postal" pun in there *somewhere*
<ali1234> that would explain why your icons went funny
<gordonjcp> mgdm: well yeah
<ahayzen> well when i fire up nautilus it doesn't use the normal home folder in the launcher... it creates another icon with the nautilus icon
<ali1234> and yes removing that package will remove ubuntu-desktop and a load of other stuff
<ahayzen> ok
<ali1234> like unity
<ali1234> metacity... light-themes... pretty much everything really
<ali1234> you'll be stuck at a shell prompt so don't do that
<ahayzen> i get 'E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'sudo dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem. ' at the moment after running 'sudo apt-get update' ... but when i run that it then becomes stuck at the processing section
<ali1234> andnothing on dmesg?
<ahayzen> erm maybe?
<ahayzen> ali1234: I've found a bit tht doesn't look too healthy ... http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/824448/
<ali1234> ata errors
<ahayzen> ali1234: Bad right?
<ali1234> yep, your harddrive is bad, or the cable, or the motherboard or power supply
<ali1234> or maybe the RAM but that's very very unlikely
<ali1234> or alternatively there's a bug in the driver for your chipset but tht is rather unlikely too
<ahayzen> well i replaced the RAM recently after having an issue with it (it had some errors so i got it replaced and new is fine)
<ahayzen> i think either HDD, Cable or SATA Controller
<ahayzen> so is there no easy way to solve the hicolor issue? ... other than formatting and starting again?
<ali1234> even that won't help
<ali1234> it will just happen again
<ali1234> you have a hardware error there
<ahayzen> :(
<ahayzen> it really odd how it is completely fine until that specific process is run though
<ahayzen> ali1234: Thanks for your help :)
<ali1234> well if you have just a few bad sectors then nothing bad will happen until you try to read or write them
<ahayzen> can i like block the OS from using them?
<ahayzen> if i could find the range of the bad blocks
<ali1234> yeah. just format the drive and it will hide them. then some more break and it will happen again
<gord> you can use the program "badblocks" to find and mark them
<gord> the OS will then ignore them
<ahayzen> ok... so the data inside the bad blocks is 'dead' ...
<ahayzen> gord: can badblocks scan over a partition?
<gord> its been a while since i used it, you'll have to do some research i'm afraid
<ahayzen> gord: Ok thx :)
<ahayzen> what about 'smartctl'?
<ahayzen> hmm but how do i install another app if my apt has mucked up?
<ahayzen> 'sudo badblocks -v /dev/sda1 > bad-blocks' seems to be doing something ... ali1234: gord: Thanks for your help, I'll see if I can solve the isssue :)
<jacobw> 'apt-get -f install'
<gord> ahayzen, i think you might want the fsck version of badblocks
<gord> ahayzen, so it marks the blocks as broken
<gord> i think its a command line option of fsck that runs badblocks itself, then uses the output to mark the filesystem
<ahayzen> i was thinking of running
<ahayzen> 'sudo fsck -t ext3 -l bad-blocks /dev/hda1'
<ahayzen> but for ext4 after and sda1?... apparently it reads the file output for the errors and then fixes them.... but the blog may be wrong...
<ahayzen> gord: Thanks for the guidance
<gord> np
<ahayzen> ok so say i do manage to fix the bad sectors .... then what would I do to fix the dpkg errors?
<ali1234> just do what it said before
<ahayzen> ali1234: Ok ... and will it sort it out even if the file like half exists?
<ali1234> maybe
<ali1234> it will only deteriorate over time anyway
<ahayzen> ali1234: I see ... The only slight flaw in the plan is that i haven't found no bad sectors yet (only scanned sda1 though [root partition] still got to scan sda6 [/home])
<ali1234> i dunno
<ali1234> i'd just chuck that drive
<ali1234> or at the very least format it 8 times
<ahayzen> ali1234: Got another 'dead' HDD in the PC so may switch the SATA cables over and see if i can resurrect that disk
<ali1234> in a different computer
<ali1234> and if i got no errors on any of the 8 formats, i might consider reusing it
<ahayzen> ali1234: Ok
<ahayzen> ali1234: Thanks for ur help again. I'll have a think about the options and see if i can debug anything at my end. But in the meantime i'll get back to doing coursework :(
<czajkowski> .c
<AlanBell> uddles
<AlanBell> ftfy
 * brobostigon haz chocolate milkshake, with abit of rum,
<directhex> rum \o/
<directhex> i have no rum :'(
<brobostigon> :(
<brobostigon> good night,
<bigcalm> Why's the rum gone?
<bigcalm> Oh great. This OLD version of PHPMailer doesn't know what to do with SSL. Lets hope the client doesn't give me SMTP details for an SSL connection
<popey> pip pip
<bigcalm> Wot ho
<popey> i may be a ickle nit tiddly
<bigcalm> That's a good state to be in on a Tuesday evening
<popey> mmm
<directhex> time for rayman. sonic pissed me off
<bigcalm> So glad I started playing rayman at last
<bigcalm> directhex: it's quite enjoyable on the Wii
<directhex> bigcalm: it's a beautiful game. 480p wouldn't do it justice IMHO. nothing shows off HD like cel-drawn animation
<bigcalm> CBA to re-buy it ;)
<directhex> grrrrrrrrrrrrr
<directhex> see latest tweet
<bigcalm> o.O
<bigcalm> I recall playing Thief for a little bit, it crashed, I never revisited it
<bigcalm> I do like sneaking about
<AlanBell> directhex: I think you will have to speak to your mummy or daddy to get that fixed
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> It bugs me that my VM boxes still pester me for the parental PIN now and then
<AlanBell> I fully intend one day to find out what the pin is on my sky box so I can watch films before 9pm
<bigcalm> 1234 is the standard on VM
<ali1234> gee, i sure would like to try unity 5.2
<ali1234> unfortunately my apt is totally screwed and crashes when i try to update
<ali1234> but the bug cannot be reported because i have out of date packages
<gordonjcp> ali1234: it's the Debian Death Spiral
<ali1234> does debian even use apport?
<ali1234> i thought it was an ubuntu thing
<gordonjcp> if Ubuntu used a sane package management system that would happen less frequently
<ali1234> like what, rpm? LOOOOOOOOL
<gordonjcp> as it is we're stuck with reinstalling weekly because apt drops its guts
<gordonjcp> this doesn't happen with ports
<hamitron> .txz ;/
<directhex> pfft ports
<directhex> AlanBell: i *am* mummy or daddy. why can't i see what games i'm forbidding to my almost-child?
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-01
<hamitron> directhex, you still not worked out if you are mummy, or daddy?
<hamitron> :|
<directhex> i'd like to know in advance which game is the story of a plucky woman's adventures in the underground of an oppressive dictatorial space army, and which one is a side-scrolling homoerotic ps1 game. it seems if you enable parental controls, you can't know what a game is until you launch it
<ali1234> what games are those?
<ali1234> metroid and streets of rage?
<gordonjcp> directhex: they both sound okay actually
<AlanBell> directhex: ps3 roulette
<gordonjcp> I reckon "parental controls" just cause more problems than they solve
<AlanBell> parents like to think they are in control
<gordonjcp> surely you do that by actually watching your children
<AlanBell> gordonjcp: note they are not called "child controls"
<gordonjcp> AlanBell: a long time ago when a friend of mine was getting pressure to set up a PC for his two stepsons, one was 9 and one was 13 or so
<gordonjcp> and all the web filtering stuff he had found was crap, and mostly didn't block objectionable content and *did* block CBeebies
<gordonjcp> so we set him up with a transparent proxy
<AlanBell> my kids have no filtering and each have a computer
<ali1234> i was building my own computers at 13
<gordonjcp> and the house rules were, stay off things you think mum and dad would be annoyed about, and it's all logged
<AlanBell> I can ssh into their machines and do "sudo halt" remotely
<gordonjcp> of course if they figured out how to crack root and destroy the evidence, fair play to them
<gordonjcp> shows initiative
<AlanBell> agreed
<hamitron> or activate a firewall
<hamitron> ;)
<gordonjcp> "if not duffers then won't drown" and all that
<directhex> ali1234: beyond good and evil hd, and cho aniki
<gordonjcp> I liked Ikaruga
<gordonjcp> I never get drunk enough to play it any more though
<drhodesmumby> Hekki.
<directhex> cho aniki is the same kind of genre. but with more of this: http://v2.onipepper.de/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/choaniki_011.jpg
<bigcalm> Haha, I remember that
<ali1234> right, restart for new unity time :)
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Unity 5.2: Testers Needed! - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/01/unity-5-2-testers-needed/
<ali1234> too sloooow man
<bigcalm> Fnar
<awilkins_> I have a feeling this "push into the edge" is going to break my Synergy setup
<awilkins_> My desktop breaks over the left edge to my Windows box
<ali1234> it's already annoying the hell out of me
<ali1234> the stickyness between monitors is really high
<awilkins_> Isn't there a tweak UI for it?
<ali1234> at least i can start things on the second monitor now, that's an improvement
<bigcalm> Looks like I'll be xfce for a long time yet then
<ali1234> it would be much better if the launcher was on the outside edge of each monitor though
<awilkins_> Maybe it would be good if "super" summoned the launcher and not just opened the dash
<ali1234> it does. hold it down
<ali1234> lol now it also opens a huge windows with a list of keyboard shortcuts
<bigcalm> O
<bigcalm> M
<bigcalm> G
<bigcalm> My schema created tables correctly
<bigcalm> I'm one step closer to going to bed!
<ali1234> this checkbox tool could really use a progress bar that tells you how many more tests are left
<Oli> Ominous. Main RaspberryPi website (.org) has gone down.
 * Oli smells a launch afoot
<Oli> Now I *can't* go to bed.
<ali1234> it's been going down all day
<Oli> You would say that... You just want me to go to sleep so you can buy my Raspi
<ali1234> i'm going to get a maple mini or a beagle bone instead
<Oli> The bone looks interesting but they (BBB, Arduino, et al) are all so cut-down
<directhex> my final verdict as far as parental controls go: 360 > wii > ps3
<directhex> Oli: at least the beaglebone is a real cpu, unlike pi
<directhex> although the gpu is weaker
<ali1234> and it comes with documetation
<directhex> omap4?
<Oli> Pah. I'll take drivers over documentation any day.
<ali1234> the pi actually is a real CPU
<directhex> oh, sorry, yes, the pi has the screaming power of an *iphone 1* as its main processor
<ali1234> but the CPU is a proprietary broadcom design which runs rtos, and linux only has access to virtual devices
<ali1234> the core that runs linux is slow, the "GPU" is actually a full CPU and is probably more powerful, but you can never use it
<directhex> BCM2835 is a GPU with enough leftover silicon to implement a low-end armv6 core
<ali1234> that's is absolutely not true
<ali1234> i spent a few hours today hexdumping the "GPU" driver
<ali1234> it runs ThreadX rtos, has full access to all hardware, and present software virtual drivers to the arm core through a mmu mapping interface
<ali1234> practically every one of the open source drivers in the arm kernel is a MT_DEVICE coupled with a user space library that serialises high level API calls
<ali1234> and there is not even documentation of these high level interfaces
<directhex> broadcom don't do docs.
<directhex> i have no idea how anyone decided to buy their crap
<ali1234> you are effectively running user mode linux
<directhex> i've said before & i'll say again that pi's cpu choice is a joke
<directhex> beaglebone proves it
<ali1234> agreed
<ali1234> it's a pity the beagle bone doesn't have video out, but meh, i have a computer with a fast graphics card that poops over any of this stuff
<directhex> from the general-purpose perspective, they'll just see pi back-to-front. i.e. the ARM1176JZF-S with some magic black-box gpu at the back
<directhex> despite the gpu being in charge of everything including the proprietary bootloader
<ali1234> the one good thing about it is it is utterly impossible to write software that isn't standards compliant
<ali1234> you *have* to use opengl etc because there is literally nothing else at all
<Oli> I think you're being a little harsh against it, given the price is that of a fairly mediocre pub lunch + pint. ~Â£20 for something that can run XBMC.
<ali1234> so it will be real easy for someone to make a clone with a totally different chip :)
<ali1234> Oli: a house brick is even cheaper and about as useful to me
<directhex> Oli: but it won't boot ubuntu, so offtopic in #ubuntu-uk :p
<ali1234> i would happily pay 4x or more for the exact same thing, except with documentation
<directhex> ali1234: i'd pay much closer to Â£100 if it had an OMAP4 or similar cortex-a series CPU
<directhex> although i already have an efikamx on my desk
<directhex> and i.mx53 is full of freescale fail
<ali1234> well, that's one of the beagle series...
<hamitron> there are already more powerful boards, if you are willing to pay more? ;)
<ali1234> it's not about power, that thing is *really* powerful
<ali1234> but the architecture is designed so that broadcom can cripple features with the blob
<directhex> hamitron: i don't want *much* more powerful. i just want a better general-purpose cpu core than the iphone 1 had
<ali1234> i just want to twiddle the hardware registers and make it do cool stuff
<hamitron> tbh, I think I'd choose an i3 on some ITX board
<hamitron> ;)
<ali1234> don't care if the cpu is worse
<hamitron> well, there is talk of changing resistors to fix the fault
<ali1234> whut
<hamitron> I heard something has been changed since the beta board, which has broken some function
<ali1234> that's just one of the SPI ports
<ali1234> or I2C, i forget
<hamitron> yeh
<ali1234> but it has like 3
<ali1234> that's not the point
<hamitron> not really something I want tbh, rather have a fpga I think
<ali1234> the point is: imagine you have a dual core computer that is running windows 7 with a locked EFI bootloader and the only way you can run linux is by running it in virtualbox/vmware and dedicating it one CPU core
<ali1234> that's the raspberry pi
<hamitron> he pi has less cpu power
<bigcalm> Sleeeeeeeeeeeep
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> the*
<Oli> I wouldn't care if that was what I expected. And I do and I'm happy with that because it's an iPhone for Â£20
<ali1234> yes, and instead of windows you have express logic threadx
<ali1234> i'll probably still buy one anyway
<Oli> lol
<hamitron> haha
<ali1234> but i doubt i will use it for anything
<ali1234> pretty much all it can do is opengl and video
<Oli> Well if you ever get bored of it, I'll happily take it off you
<hamitron> I'm not gonna rush, if everyone else wants one so badly ;)
<hamitron> I did wonder if it would be a good replacement for a load of my old comps
<hamitron> once there is no restriction on the number ya can buy
<Oli> Depends on their purpose. I wouldn't use it for a multi-purpose desktop but for silly things like torrentboxes, home-automation, etc, they'd be ace.
<ali1234> it would make an awful torrent box, it only has 256 mb
<ali1234> and it's slooooow
<hamitron> torrents would be ok wouldn't they?
<ali1234> and you have to plug in a usb hard drive, which is slooooooow
<hamitron> but agreed, not the best thing for the task
<Oli> ali1234: since when did torrents need RAM? rtorrent piddles away like 20MB
<hamitron> and for video, I'd get something like this: http://www.saverstore.com/product/20216880/Sumvision-Cyclone-Micro-3-HD-HDMI-1080p-Upscaling-Multi-Media-Player-Adaptor--Black
<ali1234> i had to buy a router with 256mb ram because just all the torrent connections were killing the old one that only had 32 mb
<ali1234> and that's when the torrent program is running on a different computer
<hamitron> my router with 16MB ram is fine
<hamitron> :/
<Oli> And USB is faster than my internet connection so that's not a problem.
<ali1234> the r-pi is basically good at one thing: and that is being a set-top-box
<ali1234> that's what it is designed for (not mobile phones)
<hamitron> and cheap to learn basic programming ;)
<ali1234> ok, *maybe* mobiles as well
<ali1234> you do not learn basic programming on this. BASIC maybe. but not basic. only high level stuff
<hamitron> I was thinking, C upwards
<ali1234> yeah, there's no point using C on this
<Oli> ?
<ali1234> because there's nothing on it that you can use with C
<hamitron> but good for a new little cheap device for someone who can't afford a full comp
<ali1234> everything has to be done through library calls
<hamitron> nothing can be done on the ARM cpu?
<hamitron> :|
<ali1234> all the arm chip can do is make RPC to the GPU
<ali1234> which is done through libraries
<ali1234> or through the kernel interface in a few instances
<hamitron> well, still think you are been a little harsh..... even if it is higher level stuff only
<ali1234> you should really only be using C to write device drivers, and this thing doesn't have any devices
<ali1234> it only has RPC mailboxes
<hamitron> you can use C to learn to code simple apps
<ali1234> if you want to make, say, a media centre front end, it is perfect for that
<ali1234> that is what it is designed for
<ali1234> but you wouldn't code that in C because it would be buggy as hell
<ali1234> or if you want to make the front end for your home automation system, it's great
<hamitron> I know you wouldn't..... but someone could try and learn a lot
<hamitron> ;/
<ali1234> QML is a perfect match for it
<ali1234> i'd get one to mess about with QML, if i could get a nice small OLED screen for it
<ali1234> touchscreen ofc
<hamitron> way I feel atm, will stick with existing x86 machines
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> makes sense
<hamitron> the only good thing I can see, if it became big, it is a standard hardware setup
<ali1234> actually it isn't
<hamitron> oh?
<ali1234> the hardware is all virtualized so it can change any time the blob changes
<ali1234> but the high level interfaces are so simplistic that it doesn't really matter
<hamitron> I just thought, if everyone ran r-pi, it may create a nice large community
<hamitron> a slim distro
<ali1234> <- mer is that way
<ali1234> it run on x86 too
<ali1234> i don't know of any raspi specific distros
<ali1234> not linux anyway
<hamitron> not yet ofc
<ali1234> most people will just use fedora or debian
<ali1234> people that want a slim distro will use mer
<ali1234> it basically runs anything
<hamitron> I suspect it may encourage people to like slimmer software
<hamitron> surely a good thing?
<ali1234> lolno, it will just encourage people to upgrade to a "real" computer
<hamitron> haha, true
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> I guess in reality, people won't put up with slow
<ali1234> yep
<ali1234> and ubuntu won't be on it anyway
<Oli> Not to begin with, at least
<ali1234> not ever
<directhex> nope.
<directhex> ever.
<directhex> well, i guess hardy
<hamitron> tbh, ubuntu isn't everything ;)
<ali1234> !hardy
<lubotu3> Ubuntu 8.04 LTS (Hardy Heron) was the eighth release of Ubuntu. Desktop support ended on May 12 2011, Server support continues until 2013. See !upgrade, !lts and !eol for more details.
 * hamitron hides from the comebacks
<ali1234> still a year or so left :)
<directhex> but ubuntu requires armv7 with thumb2 support
<ali1234> yeah and i don't see that requirement getting any lower
<ali1234> it will almost certainly go up
<hamitron> no, ubuntu is for cutting edge
<hamitron> so you run Mer ali1234 ?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> mer is only about 100 odd packages
<ali1234> if i ran it, i'd boot up to a shell prompt
<hamitron> is that bad? ;)
<ali1234> um.................................. yes?
<Oli> Isn't Mer what was on the Noka "tablets" (Nxxx series)?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> mer is a fork of that
<ali1234> well it was
<ali1234> now it's a fork of meego
<ali1234> soon it will be a fork of tizen
<ali1234> :)
<hamitron> then a fork of ubuntu? ;)
<ali1234> no, they already tried that
<hamitron> haha
<hamitron> nothing pleases me now, so I've given up looking
<ali1234> basically it's the community edition of "real mobile linux" ie mobile linux with gnu utils and X11
<ali1234> as opposed to linux
<ali1234> so they'll pull in whatever
<ali1234> as opposed to *android i meant
<ali1234> there's a load of openmoko people working on it
<ali1234> people from maemo, meego, moblin
<hamitron> probably good if you like to mess around with mobile gadgets
<ali1234> yes, anything arm, low powered, but with a nice gpu
<Oli> You're starting to make me want to move back to my N900.
<hamitron> I've always wanted a N900
<hamitron> :)
<ali1234> the N900 is great apart from that damn resistive touch screen, it's so horrible to use
<hamitron> just little too expensive still
<ali1234> you could have got one for the price of a ticket to amsterdam :)
<Oli> It's okay with the stylus but yes, it's nothing on modern capacitive screens
<hamitron> ali1234, I could? :|
<hamitron> Â£28?
<ali1234> plane ticket. yeah. the conference was free :)
<hamitron> :(
<Oli> Nokia was the worst thing about the N900. If they could find a way to screw things up, they did.
<hamitron> I reckon they want to "nearly go bust", so they can buy back most of their shares
<hamitron> ;)
<hamitron> why else do what they are?
<Oli> While we're muttering about the N900, here's my review of it after using it for a year: http://thepcspy.com/read/my-n900-review/
<directhex> i've had an n900, n9, and pre3 as work phones
<directhex> n900 lasted about a day before i rejected it
<Azelphur> blasphemy
<hamitron> tbh, I want a n900 to basically use as a comp..... I should just stick to my comp
<Oli> I still use mine to SSH into my computer when X locks up.
 * hamitron uses another comp
<ali1234> what is all that crud on your n900?
<directhex> lack of google contacts is a HUGE issue for me
<ali1234> i don't think that's a design flaw, i think that's just you :)
<hamitron> COOKIE CRUMBS
<hamitron> ;)
<Oli> ali1234: well quite - read the blurb next to it. That was after a few days of being in my pocket and it's not like I fill my pockets up with sand on a regular basis
<ali1234> ah google contacts... but the skype integration is great!
<ali1234> i still use it for that
<hamitron> I keep meaning to use my PSP for skype
<ali1234> also... i'm sure mine has synced google contacts
<ali1234> beacuse there'sa bug where it gets everyone's birthday a day late
<ali1234> from google
<hamitron> :/
<ali1234> beacuse it doesn't support timezones properly
<Oli> I guess I really just miss the slide out keyboard. Typing commands into SSH on my SGS2 with Swype is a pain in the face.
<directhex> ali1234: it works for some people maybe ish if you configure google as a microsoft exchange server, not as a gmail server
<ali1234> oh wait, it's because you have to use google's exchange sync service
<hamitron> brb, coffee
<ali1234> yeah, now i remember
<directhex> IMHO the n9 does more things as intended than the pre3. it's less buggy, in that the functions it implements go wrong less. but what it implements is usually worse
<directhex> i could write pages about the n9's boneheaded design decisions
<ali1234> whew, i think i finished all the tests
<ali1234> and i found a bug in the test program :S
<ali1234> make that two :/
<AlanBell> morning
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Are you dressed and ready Mr AlanBell?
<AlanBell> I am decent
<AlanBell> just fed the chickens
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - Will be along fairly shortly then.
<popey> uuuuuuugh
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<popey> head like a box of frogs
<MartijnVdS> ribbit
<MooDoo> morning all
<czajkowski> Aloha
<MartijnVdS> \o
<DJones> Morning all
<diplo> Morning
<mattt> good morning
<MartijnVdS> -6. Sun is shining. Time for a run :)
<daubers> Morning
<popey>  "Package data processed by brokerage. Waiting for clearance. / Released by Clearing Agency. Now in-transit for delivery. "
<popey> \o/
<MartijnVdS> apt-get install ..?
<MartijnVdS> (with ACTA in place)
<bigcalm> 'ello peeps
<bigcalm> popey: frogs will visit those who drink on a school night :P
<bigcalm> Personally I was up 'til 1am working on database designs
<bigcalm> <- knackered
<imexil> Hi, does anyone know where to find information _why_ a particular package is not contained in the current release? In my case I wonder why http://packages.ubuntu.com/natty/imapsync is no longer shipped.
<popey> imexil: it got renamed imapcopy by the look of it
<imexil> no that is a differen program as far as I can see
<imexil> imapcopy does not do/support what imapsynch does
<imexil>  or did
<popey> imexil: looks like imapsync was dropped in debian
<oimon> i use offlineimap
<popey> which is probably why it was dropped in ubuntu
<smittix> Don't suppose anyone is after one of these? http://www.myadventvega.co.uk/
<imexil> but is there any kind of traceback of *why* it was dropped?
<bigcalm> smittix: I've recently bought myself a Xoom, so I'm happy :)
<oimon> bigcalm: which android is on it?
<bigcalm> Honeycomb (ICS if you're in North America)
<diplo> bigcalm, Can I ask how much you paid for it ?
<bigcalm> diplo: 249.99 from the Carphone Warehouse (no longer offered)
<diplo> I really would like to get one, dubious about spending the money as I'm rather short of cash most of the time
<diplo> oh :/
<diplo> Liking it ?
<bigcalm> Yeah, I spotted the offer on twitter and gave in :)
<bigcalm> diplo: yes, very much
<diplo> I also would love to know what it's like for reading books, instead of getting a kindle + tablet
<diplo> Was debating about just a tablet
<bigcalm> I have both, so tend to use the kindle for books
<bigcalm> I find the tablet is handy as a reference manual display while I'm working
<ubuntubhoy> diplo, kindle on a tablet is decent, but if you read a lot I would recommend a 7"
<bigcalm> The Xoom is quite weighty
<diplo> I read lot's of normal books at the mo, borrow my mates sony ereader and decided i liked it, also dad just for a kindle and uses it all the time
<bigcalm> You wouldn't want to hold it for too long in bed
<ubuntubhoy> but a decent price right now
<diplo> just not going to be able to afford both, think a tablet would be best option for now as kids could use it a lot
<diplo> My brother bought an iPad and the kids loved it.
<bigcalm> Get a tablet then if you can only get one
<ubuntubhoy> an original Tab, or a Flyer would be ideal
<ubuntubhoy> I got my kids Advent Vega's and they love them
<popey> imexil: http://old.nabble.com/situation-of-imapsync-and-Debian-%28was%3A-Re%3A-Bug-609845%3A-huge-memory-leak-when-syncing-large-mailboxes%29-td30744498.html
<diplo> Will take a look ubuntubhoy thanks
<imexil> popey: cool thank !
<imexil> how did you find it?
<smittix> bigcalm: Nice, I have Honeycomb on this Vega. I don't use it at all though so it's just sitting there.
<popey> google
<diplo> So wish i wasn't so tight on money :/
<imexil> oh that one ;)
<popey> debian bug 609845
<lubotu3> Debian bug 609845 in ftp.debian.org "RM: imapsync -- ROM; no longer distributable" [Important,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/609845
<ubuntubhoy> diplo, the other option is a Kindle Fire
<diplo> yeah, been looking at them.. was waiting on XDA peeps to unlock it nicely :)
<diplo> Then make it kid friendly, give that to the kids and get something for myself
<ubuntubhoy> any Android Tab is kid friendly really
<popey> daubers: no reply from black magic yet â¹
<xplora1a> the Humble Bundle is on again with an Android bent with World of Goo...
<oimon> diplo: i find my tablet useful to take to meetings. often there's 10 PDFs which are referred to in a meeting, and some people print them out just for the meeting, then throw away afterwards
<diplo> I like that idea oimon, luckily new job means not to many meetings now but I do like that idea.
<oimon> and i only paid Â£90 for my HP tablet
<ubuntubhoy> you have a touchpad ?
<oimon> yes
<ubuntubhoy> then why do you need another tablet
<ubuntubhoy> get CM9 on it
<oimon> me? i don't
<ubuntubhoy> Ohh, wrong person
<ubuntubhoy> oops
<oimon> :D
<ubuntubhoy> haha
<oimon> hmmm.. amount of spam received lately has doubled at least
<oimon> work and personal
<oimon> ha. usually we give linux boxes to new staff, but after a couple of days, one guy demanded a windows box. ever since then he's been asking for stuff that comes standard on linux machines, and takes one of our team 15-30 minutes to sort out on a windows machine each time.
<occupy64k> FAIL
<daubers> popey: :(
<aquarius> popey, now I come to you for your m4d ffmpeg sk1llz
<popey> aquarius: what you gonna play the converted videos on?
<popey> a kindle? âº
<aquarius> popey, ps3
<aquarius> not a kindle. :)
<aquarius> video on kindle. It'd work for stop-motion stuff :)
<popey> what codecs does the ps3 support?
<aquarius> no idea.
<aquarius> if I have to spend the rest of my life finding that out then I wouldn't need your help :)
<aquarius> it plays downloaded .avi files, which means nothing, and allegedly it supports mp4 as well but not what Handbrake outputs
<aquarius> I can find a file that I know works and then inspect it in a way of your choosing, if that helps
<popey> get a video it plays and install ffmpeg then run "ffmpeg -i video.mp4"
<popey> and that will tell you what codecs it uses
<aquarius>     Stream #0.0: Video: mpeg4, yuv420p, 624x352 [PAR 1:1 DAR 39:22], 25 tbr, 25 tbn, 25 tbc
<aquarius>     Stream #0.1: Audio: mp3, 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 192 kb/s
<aquarius> A
<ubuntubhoy> diplo, http://recombu.com/news/spark-linux-based-tablet-for-200-166-runs-kdes-plasma-active-interface_M16655.html?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=share&utm_campaign=website
<popey> aquarius: is the goal to save space?
<aquarius> popey, nope. Don't care about space
<popey> whats the goal?
<aquarius> (well, within reason. I'd rather a 500MB mkv doesn't become 4GB or anything
<aquarius> goal: convert a bunch of mkv files which won't play on my ps3 to something which will.
<aquarius> then delete the mkv files :)
<diplo> ubuntubhoy, Sorry ueah i saw that the other day.. keeping an eye on it
<diplo> Be good for me, not so sure for kids.
<ubuntubhoy> true
<ubuntubhoy> I'm gonna have a look at compiling it and throwing it over KDE to see if it runs
<diplo> being so short on cash and none of my friends having any android tablets to play with I've held back because I don't want to make the wrong decision
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<DJones> \o/ New printer
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod oi I said morning! ;)
<czajkowski> ââââââââââ ââââ ââââ   â                âââ
<czajkowski> ââââ ââââââââ ââââââ âââââââ âââââââââââ ââ
<czajkowski> â ââ âââ ââââ ââââ â â ââââââ ââ ââ ââ  ââ
<czajkowski> â âââ â ââ ââââ âââ  ââââââ â ââ âââ â  âââ
<mattt> well that was inappropriate
<occupy64k> heh
<gord> i see MORNDSANDSRr
<gord> stupid non monospace font
<matti> I see nothing.
<matti> 
<occupy64k> On the HUDs there seems to be a lot of unused space
<Laney> I seeeeeeee dead people
<MartijnVdS> dead space*
<directhex> clank clank clank clank BLAAARRRGGGG
<directhex> there you go, saved you 8 hours of play time
<ali1234> lol 8 hour game? lol
<bigcalm> Hang on, I'm using Ubuntu Mono and it looks messed up
<ali1234> that's because those are unicode characters
<ali1234> and lazy font designers never make unicode characters in monospaced fonts
<ali1234> or if they do, they don't make them the same width
<bigcalm> Lazy
<directhex> yeah, what ali1234 said. ubuntu mono is not monospaced, beyond ascii
<ali1234> to be fair, there is about 11 billion characters in unicode
<ali1234> and most of them couldn't be rendered at all in 12 pixels or however wide the average font size is
<ali1234> so if you want your horrible ascii graphics to render properly, be sure to actually use ascii to make them :)
<ali1234> does anyone else see gaps in this with ubuntu mono: __________
<ali1234> makes my python source codes look ugly :(
<directhex> yes
<ali1234> and i'm sure it never used to have those gaps before precise
<directhex> i'm on oneiric
<ali1234> weird
<davmor2> czajkowski: I don't know what that was meant to say but I don't think it worked as you expected
<czajkowski> it did for me
 * popey points ali1234 at sladen 
 * popey points sladen at the lat 10 minutes
<popey> *last
<ali1234> what did i do now?
<directhex> you angered the sladen. now he gets to feast on your entrails
<popey> he's the guy you need to bitch^H report problems with the font to
<ali1234> oic
<ali1234> well it's not really a problem
<ali1234> i don't even use a monospace font for irc
<directhex> report a bug that cowsay looks wrong!
<directhex> i reported a bug against thunderbird for that once
<directhex> it was mangling cow-based signatures
<popey> looks fine here
<directhex> debian bug #276144
<lubotu3> Debian bug 276144 in cowsay "mozilla-thunderbird: Breaks formatting of cowsay-based signature" [Minor,Fixed] http://bugs.debian.org/276144
<ali1234> the most unlikely thing about that is that it got fixed :/
<ali1234> or did you fix it yourself?
<ali1234> s/unlikely/unusual/
<directhex> it was fixed in cowsay 3.03-7
<directhex> by Florian Ernst
<directhex> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=42;filename=cowsay.diff;att=1;bug=276144
<czajkowski> hmmm
<sladen> ali1234: morning.
 * sladen salivates
<davmor2> sladen: salivating and foaming at the bit aren't the same you know ;)
<gord> since the change to automatically putting software centre installed things in the launcher, i sure have grown a lot of crap in my launcher
<gord> don't think i need five different webcam softwares in there
<sladen> mmm, maybe you need to program a delete option too ;-)
<czajkowski> remind me not to do toliet again :)
<ali1234> anyone know how i can report bugs in checkbox-unity when using the unity team ppa?
<davmor2> gord: in the view menu click on New Applications in launcher ;)
<MartijnVdS> gord: this is why you use Alt+F2
<czajkowski> can someone running precise, please open up chrome, and then a new window, then thunderbird, and open up write a new mail, can you alt tab to those 4  or just two ?
<ali1234> i would do if i had either of those programs installed
<davmor2> czajkowski: try using the ` button
<czajkowski> davmor2: the ' button?
<ali1234> "button-above-tab"
<ali1234> actually it's alt-button-above-tab
<czajkowski> oh I looked at the button above shift @ ;)
<czajkowski> nope still doesnt make a difference
<czajkowski> :/
<ali1234> backquote
<ali1234> (on UK keymap)
<davmor2> czajkowski: so alt+tab between apps and alt+` to get between window of apps
<czajkowski> ahh that works
<czajkowski> but some hand cordination required
<czajkowski> cheers
<davmor2> czajkowski: no you just move your finger up one :P
<czajkowski> feels odd ;)
<davmor2> czajkowski: by the way on a plain desktop if you hit the windows/meta/super key you get the keypresses and then you won't need to ask
<czajkowski> but thanks for the info
<davmor2> orca with english_wmids(en) is hilarious
 * popey files bug 924839 bug 924840  bug 924841 and 924842
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 924839 in unity "Keyboard shortcuts overlay inconsistent" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924839
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 924840 in unity "Keyboard shortcuts overlay text too long" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924840
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 924842 in unity "Keyboard shortcuts overlay text is small and cramped" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924842
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 924841 in unity "Keyboard shortcuts overlay KP_Left ?" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924841
<popey> \o/
<ali1234> is that the new thing that covers up the screen when you press meta?
<popey> if anyone fancies confirming
<popey> yes
<popey> damnit, forgot screenshot
<ali1234> it seems ok to me
<ali1234> i mean other than it covers up the screen and i don't need it
<ali1234> also well done for filing 4 consecutive bugs
<popey> âº
<ali1234> i normally get every other #
<diplo> Guys, update-notifier can be installed with out the need for gui ?
<diplo> http://superuser.com/questions/199869/check-number-of-pending-security-updates-in-ubuntu
<ali1234> there should be an achievement for that
<diplo> Relating to that
<popey> lol
<ali1234> diplo: that's an interesting question
<diplo> Actually after apt-check
<diplo> :)
 * diplo looks again
<ali1234> my apt is currently in a broken state where update-manager lists different updates to apt
<ali1234> i don't have the slightest idea how to fix it, because apt fixes usually work on the command line
<ali1234> and apt command line doesn't show the problem :(
<diplo> I suppose I can see updates from how motd does it
<ali1234> that's probaby the easiest way yes
<diplo> hmm, motd is generated from something else now
<diplo> :P
<ali1234> byobu also has an update notifier i don't think it distinguishes security updates though
<ali1234> but it might give you a clue
<popey> it does
<popey> you get a ! for security updates
<popey> well, you get a ! if at least one is a security update I guess
<ali1234> ah
<ali1234> well, it's a start
<diplo> it's in /etc/motd.d/ now
<diplo> generates from files in there
<davmor2> ali1234: is this on precise?
<ali1234> broken apt? yes
<davmor2> ali1234: could be that there is a broken apt package a few went through the other day,  so just to confirm you have done sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get -f install in the cli?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> it says there are no updates and nothing to fix
<davmor2> ali1234: right and have you tried clicking on check in update-manager?
<ali1234> yes, it says there is one update to install: openjdk-6-jre:i386
<ali1234> atempting to install this package causes dpkg to crash leaving apt in an unusual state until various packages are purged
<ali1234> the package itself cannot be installed, but it's dependencies can be
<ali1234> bug 924096
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 924096 in openjdk-6 (Ubuntu) "update-manager wants to install openjdk-6-jre:i386" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/924096
<directhex> loljava
<ali1234> loljava indeed
<ali1234> but at least it isn't lolmono
<davmor2> ali1234: is there a reason why you have the 32 bit jre installed on a 64bit system?
<ali1234> davmor2: i don't have it installed. it cannot be installed. update-manager wants to install it though, for reasons only known to itself
<ali1234> i reported it against openjdk because micahg told me to, saying it is a multiarch bug
<ali1234> i was going to report it against update-manager but... *shrug*
<directhex> ali1234, which out of the two is broken, again?
<davmor2> ali1234: I'm assuming that the reason is you have a 32bit java app installed that requires it
<ali1234> nope
<ali1234> i don't have any java programs installed
<ali1234> i have jre installed only to play minecraft, which is not packaged
<davmor2> ali1234: is that a 32 bit version that would do it
<ali1234> that makes no sense
<popey> do you have 64-bit version of that package installed too?
<popey> s/too//
<ali1234> too?
<ali1234> i only have openjdk-6-jre (64 bit) installed
<ali1234> :i386 cannot be installed
<ali1234> therefore i don't have it installed
<Myrtti> I thought :i386 was the way the new system marked named the archagnostic packages or something
<davmor2> Myrtti: no it's the way it notifies the system that you have installed the 32version over the 64bit version, take zsnes the 64bit is listed but has no package, so you can do sudo apt-get install zsnes:i386 to install the 32bit package instead
<davmor2> ali1234: do a sudo apt-get purge openjdk-6-jre:i386 && sudo apt-get autoremove
<ali1234> Package openjdk-6-jre:i386 is not installed, so not removed
<ali1234> 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
<ali1234> (i already tried all this, as i mentioned in the bug report)
<ali1234> now i run update-manager and click "check"
<Myrtti> right
<Myrtti> it's all very confusing
<ali1234> ad it lists 1 update: openjdk-6-jre:i386
<ali1234> now i run sudo apt-get dist-upgrade, and it shows 0 updates
<popey> burn it with fire
<ali1234> yeah i've basically given up on update manager now
<ali1234> i only use synaptic and apt-get
<davmor2> ali1234: I've past the bug onto mvo see what he makes of it
<ali1234> it should be possible to to install those packages side by side anyway
<ali1234> that's the whole point of multiarch
<ali1234> so it is at least 50% a bug in java packaging
<ali1234> the rest is down to update-manager weirdness
<davmor2> ali1234: That's cause java is "special" ;)
<ali1234> java = loljava
<ali1234> right lunch time then i'm going to do coding instead of just reporting endless bugs
<gord> grr, i need to fork xchat. the only change would be to remove that annoying selecting text copies the text thing
<MartijnVdS> GordChat
<oimon> wouldn't that be a desired feature? selecting text copies it to clipboard?
<MartijnVdS> oimon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_selection#Clipboard
<directhex> gord, i think that's an effort to make the select-to-copy behaviour work on windows, since there's no way in xchat to explicitly copy text to the copy buffer
<smittix> bah, does anyone know how to claim admin status of a facebook page? I setup a facebook page under an old disabled account.
<popey> re-enable the old account?
<smittix> Im not sure I can it was a while ago and I set it to delete.
<smittix> Nope account doesn't exist anymore.
<oimon> If the group has no current admin, you or any other member will be able to take the admin position by clicking Become Admin on the right side of the group's page
<smittix> I think I know what's happened. I think someone I know is still an admin which is why it wont let me do anything.
<davmor2> ali1234: mvo asked if you can have a chat in an hour on #ubuntu-devel he would like to resolve your issue incase it crops up again
<ali1234> sure
<davmor2> ali1234: try giving mvo a ping now on #ubuntu-devel
<bigcalm> I just used "That's the rub" in a conversation with a client. Pleased to be keeping that phrase alive
<popey> bigcalm: i prefer "Therein lies the rub"
<bigcalm> popey: I think I would have had a weird look from the client :P
<bigcalm> But, that does sound good
 * bigcalm kicks odbc and mssql
 * popey spies some changes in 12.04
<daubers> bigcalm: Was the client Ann Summers?
<daubers> bigcalm: Cause that might get you in trouble
<bigcalm> o.O
<oimon> popey: were you about to share the changes with us?
<oimon> :P
<popey> feel free to install 12.04 :D
<oimon> i'm there
 * oimon checks for new stuff
<popey> alt-tab behaviour has changed
<popey> and the icons in the launcher are now square, not rounded
<oimon> did you get SSD in your X220 popey ?
<oimon> interestingly, i am not using an image as my wallpaper, but lightdm is showing one
<oimon> i am using coloured gradient instead
<popey> no
<oimon> hoping my employer might get me a laptop. given the budget, a TP might be nice for me
<oimon> hmm eventbrite subscribed me to an attendee newsletter without asking
<bigcalm> Disabling the firewall on the win 2008 server (because I was too lazy to work out enabling specific ports) allowed my windows laptop to connect to the SQL Server with ODBC. But I'm still struggling to do this from PHP on my ubuntu server. One might say that #windowsSucks
<davmor2> bigcalm: and they are shocked to learn that Linux rules in the server field
<bigcalm> davmor2: I really have no choice in this matter :(
<davmor2> bigcalm: No you do, you can use it or be fired
<bigcalm> Thankfully it is only the ms sql server that is on windows that I have to worry about. The rest of the project will be on RedHat servers with RackSpace
<chemical-oli> apologies for butting in but are there any kind gparted wizards available to give me some partitioning advice?
<chemical-oli> i need to resize my filesystem partition and have freed up 10gb to do this with, but the space is adjacent to my home partition not my / partition... does anyone have any ideas how i could do this?
<popey> chemical-oli: move everything up the disk so the space _is_ next to /
<chemical-oli> ah ok thanks popey ill give that a go ;)
<Azelphur> Hmm, occupy has come to my town, is there anything as a tech type person I can do to be supportive?
<directhex> give them hats. everyone loves hats.
<Azelphur> directhex: this isn't TF2 :D
<popey> soup
<Azelphur> my brother already got them coffee and stuff
<brobostigon> whisky?
<Azelphur> lol
<brobostigon> chocolate.
<DJones> Azelphur: Directors to the job centre :)
<DJones> s/Directors/Directions
<Azelphur> DJones: haha, I think that's a misconception, I was at their meet and I certainly don't think they are lazy like you are making out
<directhex> does job center do anything except give you unpaid jobs at poundland and cut your benefits if you say no?
<Azelphur> When I was there, they was actually planning to go around and clean up the town.
<Azelphur> If they are so lazy, why would they be arranging to go out and clean the town up? :)
<DJones> Azelphur: I'm not saying they're lazy, maybe more just frustrated at how much time they have to do this
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> somebody has to do it, the whole corruption thing is getting beyond ridiculous
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<AlanBell> did you say you had a spare wifi dongle?
 * AlanBell would like to buy it off you, using small eggs as currency
<popey> ya
<AlanBell> great, I will bring eggs to the pub tomorrow :)
<AlanBell> this could get messy
<popey> er
<popey> I am just off to eat
<popey> but I will keep this webcam updating to tease you
<popey> http://popey.com/webcam/
<DJones> AlanBell: Take hard boiled eggs to reduce the risk
<AlanBell> DJones: nah, much more interesting to take them fresh
 * AlanBell wonders if christel will make it to the pub
<DJones> I'm sure she will if they're cardbury's creme eggs
<AlanBell> maybe some for czajkowski and Jon too
<AlanBell> I got changed for bed and did my teeth as soon as I was told
<AlanBell> paste fail
 * AlanBell is doing reward chart with smiley faces for good achievements
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> how do you like your eggs in the evening?
<czajkowski> oh so many comments
<czajkowski> so not allowed to make
<AlanBell> ;)
<czajkowski> what has popey pointed his webcam at
<AlanBell> a wifi dongle
<AlanBell> that will be going in my little desktop to replace the one I snapped in two by accident
<zleap> hi, all
<czajkowski> oh dear how did you snap it
<AlanBell> lifted it up to plug something in the back of it, and put the desktop down on the front side, forgot the dongle was plugged into the front
<zleap> AlanBell, will send cheque tomorrow its written out just need to send it
<AlanBell> great, thanks
<zleap> np
<zleap> Â£3.15
<AlanBell> yup, bargain ;)
<zleap> :)
<zleap> well the local youth centre are doing a crb thing on my at the moment so once done I should be able to start this programming group, I did suggest if we can call it a hacking group, and i think from what i got back from that if I explain what hacking means ina programming sense, then it should be fine,  hacking also covers hardware hacking, too
<zleap> I am going to see if we can also invest in a raspberry PI,  perhaps 1 to promote the device and see if anyone in the group gets one as a result
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> I've applications running and I move my mouse over t the launcher
<czajkowski> and it wont pop out
<czajkowski> minimise everything move mouse to the left again and out it pops out
<AlanBell> do you have applications in the area it would pop out to?
<AlanBell> like full screen ones?
<czajkowski> nope
<czajkowski> but cant get it to launch to get at say sw centre
<gordonjcp> in unity, what handles <ALT-F2>?
<gordonjcp> I think I need to restart something but I don't know what, since alt-f2 has now broken completely
<czajkowski> hmmm
<czajkowski> this is rther annoying
<gord> one of the things about ubuntu that i just love that no one really talks about, you can set the sound to go higher than 100%. that is just fantastic :)
<czajkowski> having to minimise all my applications each time to go back to the laucher
 * czajkowski peers at gord what have you broken 
<bigcalm> It's true
<bigcalm> VLC does it as well
<AlanBell> we go to 11
<gord> czajkowski, not me, jason ;) there is a fix being worked out - for now, i just recommend leaving the launcher forced out
<czajkowski> how does one force it out
<czajkowski> sounds rather painful and invasive
<czajkowski> but needed :)
<popey> install lolunity
<gord> its in the unity ccsm settings
<popey> sorry, MyUnity
<popey> actually that doesn't have a setting for it does it?
<czajkowski> who names somethign called lolunity!
<gord> i actually prefer it forced out all the time
<popey> same here
<popey> oh it does
<popey> czajkowski: i was joking
<popey> czajkowski: install myunity and there's a "behaviour" option
<czajkowski> popey: one never knows there are some odd named packages
<czajkowski> cheers
<czajkowski> popey: AlanBell beers tomororow night - gentle reminder
<AlanBell> indeed czajkowski, I will be bringing eggs :)
<czajkowski> ohh
<bigcalm> What time are those beers?
<bigcalm> Is that you off-loaded chairing tomorrow's meeting onto me? :P
<AlanBell> yup :)
<bigcalm> Good work
 * TheOpenSourcerer loves invoicing happy customers in the evening :-D
<swat_> anyone running precise?
<popey> swat_: yup
<swat_> popey: have you been hit with the new unity yet?
<popey> ii  unity          5.2.0~+bzr1884 Interface designed for efficiency of space a
<swat_> the one from yesterday
<popey> yup
<swat_> i'm finding that the amount of 'force' i have to use to open the launcher is a bit excessive on my laptop
<swat_> wondered if anyone else had noticed it
<popey> yes
<popey> i leave mine out
<popey> (missus)
<swat_> ah i see
<swat_> do we know if it's being looked at being tweated?
<popey> 21:06:56 < gord> czajkowski, not me, jason ;) there is a fix being worked out - for now, i just recommend leaving the launcher forced out
<swat_> ah
<swat_> couldn't work out if that was the same thing or not
<swat_> i don't have to minimise my apps, but it does take a good few strokes to get it out
<swat_> (har)
<popey> bug 751050
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 751050 in unity (Ubuntu) "Keyboard shortcut - Unity window placement shortcuts require a numpad" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/751050
<AlanBell> popey: can't you use fn+ keys to the right side of qwerty keyboard?
 * mattt is moving on friday, and hates moving :(
<popey> AlanBell: you can but it's a hideous contortion of the fingers
<popey> no less than 4 keys held down, and has to be done with two hands really
<shauno> you escape from kazakhstan yet popey?
<popey> yea, warsaw
<shauno> ah, much better
<AlanBell> popey: yeah, totally understand that
<shauno> mine spent half a day in kazakhstan and made me nervous as <bleep>
<popey> doesnt matter though I believe that shortcut is changing
<popey> super and arrows would be my proposal
<Azelphur> maybe they got confused between you and borat, you are kinda similar :P
 * Azelphur runs
<shauno> nah, it's normal getting stuff fedex'd from china
<Azelphur> shauno: China -> UK -> Kazakhstan -> UK is normal? o.O
<shauno> it didn't go to the UK
<Azelphur> https://twitter.com/#!/popey/status/164649986758426624/photo/1 lies :o
<shauno> if you import enough stuff, you can get customs to pre-process things.  so the customs process starts before it's physically present
<Azelphur> ah :)
<shauno> 'package data' arrived in the UK; no item
<Azelphur> hehe
<shauno> (data and bad news being the only things faster than fedex :)
<shauno> the funniest one I had, was ordering apple products in the US
<Azelphur> btw, for any steam users, my friend is working on steam friends for pidgin, progress is good
<popey> http://uk.insight.com/en-gb/productinfo/power-adapters/LENYF57Y08
<popey> pondering
<Azelphur> he reverse engineered the new steam mobile protocol, I'm just helping him with the first Linux build :D
<shauno> it went from their distribution center, to Ontario, CA, to memphis TN, to chicago.   Ontario being the canadian province closest to us, I assumed 'Ontario, CA' meant canadaland.
<shauno> it wasn't until I found out there's a city in california, that the trip from cali to canada and back to memphis started to make sense :/
<shauno> (er, a city named ontario)
<Azelphur> http://www.piracyactnamegenerator.com/ \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-02
<czajkowski> aloha
<AlanBell> morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning
<czajkowski> on the choo choo train
<DJones> Morning
<popey> morning
 * AlanBell puts laptop and lots of eggs in a bag
<MooDoo>  morning all
 * AlanBell checks http://popey.com/webcam/
<czajkowski> either its not refreshed or alan has kept his arm very still all night
<TheOpenSourcerer> Is that a desk that popey has? Where are all the bits of paper and other detritus that I have on mine?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I don't recognise that colour at all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right I am going to go and get ready then wonder off to the station. See you ion the pub this evening whoever else is going.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\wander
<czajkowski> toodles TheOpenSourcerer
<DJones> Ugh, a 5 minute train ride is a looonnnggg wait
<DJones> Grr, wrong channel
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Morning all
<daubers> Morning
<smittix> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> morning all
<MooDoo> morning alan
<czajkowski> DJones: you in London today ?
<Gary> morning all, thanks popey \o/
 * czajkowski hugs Gary Happy Birthday! 
<Gary> aww, thx
<MooDoo> happy birthday Gary :) no hug though :)
<smittix> Unity 5.2 is looking good
<smittix> Especially the screen edge detection.
<TOSDroid> Choo choo
<oimon> my phone app reckons it's going down to -7.5 tonight (was -5 last night) in london
<smittix> Yeah mine says -5 for Nottingham tonight
<smittix> and snow for todate :/
<smittix> today even
<oimon> made me smile this morning https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-fFXVkqn3kU4/TyiytLCCiRI/AAAAAAAAWC8/DCyHDTTzgyE/w400/chili%2Bpowder.gif
<smittix> HEH!
<oimon> i love the other guy in the background doing a happy dance
<Gary> hehe
<popey> that isnt chilli powder
<popey> its almost certainly cinnamon.
<popey> http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-cinnamon-challenge
<smittix> http://www.failgif.com/2012/01/cinnamon-gifs.html
<oimon> i thought that before i saw the url
<bigcalm> That's just weird
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<gord> heatings going on a bit early today. brrr
<oimon> this week my email address has been used to sign up to pandora and netflix (still getting PSN emails too)
<smittix> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> Howdy smittix
<bigcalm> oimon: use a personal domain?
<oimon> bigcalm: or profit :P
<oimon> linux journal keep sending me free copies :D
<oimon> i find i read digital magazines more than paper ones
<popey> whee, laptop has moved on to poland and then germany
<oimon> are the X220 heavy btw?
<popey> hard to say when its in germany
<bigcalm> :)
<oimon> i thought you'd had a lot of hands on
<popey> aquarius: pcpro reviewed all ultrabooks, asus came out on top âº
<oimon> i played with a x220 tablet  i bought somebody..seemed nice
<popey> i decided not to get the tablet version
 * aquarius grins
<oimon> although it had to go back to base because there was a spec of dirt sitting in the screen
<aquarius> fader likes his asus zenbook
<aquarius> I don't like that you have to be pathologically careful about which touchpad you get
<oimon> possibly between the lcd and touchscreen
<aquarius> and I think my ideapad looks nicer, but that's subjective ;)
<popey> âº
<oimon> pretty is near bottom on my list
<oimon> except when choosing a mate
<JamesTait> Mornin' all!
<popey> http://imgur.com/YBqhU
<popey> i tell a lie!
<popey> it's in the UK
<AlanBell> choo choo
<czajkowski> I tried the Ux31 the other day at the airport, AWFUL keyboard and trackpad.
<czajkowski> and for an ultra light book rather heavy
<smittix> popey: It's right next to where I am at the minute.
 * smittix shudders, this wallpaper freaks me out http://wallbase.cc/wallpaper/1188298
<jpds> smittix: http://interfacelift.com/
<AlanBell> morning jpds
<jpds> AlanBell: Morning.
<bigcalm> czajkowski: want an awful keyboard? Try davmor2's
<brobostigon> good mornign everyone.
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<brobostigon> hi bigcalm
<bigcalm> Is it the weekend yet? :(
<brobostigon> day after tmrw, will be weekend, today is thursday.
<bigcalm> I was disturbed to discover that today was Thursday
<brobostigon> :(
<jpds> bigcalm: http://startuplaugh.com/536
<bigcalm> HAH
<oimon> hmm time to start pondering valentines day gift
<MooDoo> oimon: i've already sorted mine out to my wife and it's sweet F A :)
 * AlanBell suggests eggs
<popey> unfertilized
<Laney> mmm, frozen cakes
<Laney> (kindly delivered by the university)
<Laney> (not intended to be frozen)
<Laney> (yum)
<directhex> http://i.imgur.com/4451w.jpg
<oimon> directhex: i thought that was a leg. but it's the sofa
<bigcalm> directhex: your pet?
<directhex> nope. just an awesome pic
<popey> gord . bigcalm  and other tea lovers.. http://imgur.com/gallery/xQsWs
<bigcalm> Haha
<danfish> U+1F4A9
<gord> need to purchase
<gord> don't have my see through cups anymore though :(
<danfish> fail
<directhex> http://i43.tinypic.com/2c125k.jpg
<davmor2> morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: proddingtonly prod
 * czajkowski hugs davmor2 oi oi chappy
<czajkowski> popey: lol
<diplo> Anyone extended a LVM under vmware before ?
<diplo> Follwoing this tutorial http://mattiasgeniar.be/2010/08/27/increase-a-vmware-disk-size-vmdk-formatted-as-linux-lvm/ , but only issue im having is
<diplo>  resize2fs /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00
<diplo> resize2fs 1.35 (28-Feb-2004)
<diplo> /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 is mounted; can't resize a mounted filesystem!
<diplo> Think of a round it ? apart from live cd
<aquarius> czajkowski, that's why I chose the ideapad, not the asus zenbook
<diplo> Seems kernel 2.6* and ext3 should allow this :/
<czajkowski> aquarius: first thing I do in a shop is open up and editor and try and type on the keyboard
<czajkowski> this one I fell in love with
<aquarius> first thing I do is check the touchpad has multitouch, but yeah. :)
<oimon> "Health alert as big chill grips UK" i read that as big chilli
<diplo> oimon, you being a Centos guy, got any ideas about above ?
<oimon> diplo: are you inside the VM or outside it?
<diplo> I'm ssh'd into a virtual box trying to run this
<diplo> VMWare box ( ESXi )
<diplo> Server is in nottingham, I'm near bath :(
<diplo> I can get someone to put a live cd in or grab one myself and put some where, just wanted to make there isn't an easier way, all the tutorials reckon it should just work
<oimon> so you've increased the vmdk size, and expanded it in fdisk?
<oimon> the volume is mounted on / ?
<gord> wish gimp was a single window thing already..
<oimon> gord: they need moar dev i think
<gord> a bunch of forks already made it single window, sounds more like upstream don't want to do it
<diplo> Sorry oimon yeah
<oimon> i heard it's coming in v2.8  gord
<diplo> to all of the above
<diplo> It seems it's an issue with Cent4.8 not allowing it, ( don't ask about the OS Age! )
<oimon> ah
<diplo> Going to have to get someone to sort me a live cd and work out how to do that
<oimon> OS should allow it on the fly
<oimon> but ye olde OS may not
<diplo> 4.* doesn't :(
<diplo> Even though it was enabled in the kernel to allow it
<oimon> i got rid of all my RH4 stuff except one
<diplo> We are stuck, 80+ sites running it
<diplo> And some running OS's many many many years old ( sco initial releases )
<oimon> hack-a-day
<oimon> this is your new job right?
<gord> ah its already in 2.7
<gord> i should make a ppa with that or something
<diplo> Basically I'm not the sysadmin, there are 2-3 in our nottingham office but when ever something like this comes up it's 'Andy please can you look at this'
<oimon> "Gimp 2.8 release scheduled on 2012 January 24"
<diplo> :/
<oimon> aka mugman
<diplo> I don't complain, actually miss sysadmin a lot, would love to go back to it full time
<oimon> gord: http://tasktaste.com/projects/Enselic/gimp-2-8
<gord> heh, amd sponsored work for OpenCL in gimp, thats awesome
 * brobostigon has changed from normal bitlbee to the one that uses libpurple. atleast msn works.
<oimon> doesn't look like 2.8 will make 12.04 then :-\
<kStar1> #6sync
<Myrtti> anyone using irssi in tmux? which "screen_away.pl" scripts do you use?
<brobostigon> let me look, minute.
<diplo> Got it working oimon, live cd
<diplo> Still a a tad scared to do it on a live customers server
<brobostigon> 12:18:44 screen_away     /home/ptaylor/.irssi/scripts/autorun/screen_away.pl
<oimon> diplo: cool. i reckon it's the only way with c4
<brobostigon> Myrtti: that one, it is the same as worked in screen also.
<diplo> We don't run the VMWare instance at our customers though, think thats going to be my major issue
<oimon> diplo: thats the beauty of cloning a machine with vmware first
<oimon> oh
<diplo> yeah, it sucks :)
<oimon> today is a blanket+scarf day in the office
<diplo> Was mentioned about trying in rescue mode to resize
<diplo> going to give that a go next
<brobostigon> Myrtti: http://pastebin.com/LyhKcNeU there we go, i hope that is of some help.
<Myrtti> brobostigon: yeah actually that is the same script I've used with my screen, but I'm looking for a one that works with tmux
<brobostigon> Myrtti: i am using byobu with tmux here, and it seems to work.
<brobostigon> Myrtti: i am wrong, i have been in ignorance for weeks, it doesnt work.
<brobostigon> sorry.
<brobostigon> Myrtti: i just found http://cybione.org/~cdidier/code/misc/tmux_away.pl
<Myrtti> yeah, I found it as well, I was just wondering if the channel of avid tmux/byobu users would have a specific preference about the several different tmux_away.pl's, as google seems to return many results
<brobostigon> ah i see. i would be interested also in the result.
<brobostigon> that plugin seems to work.
<popey> Myrtti: my vps runs 10.04 so I'm still on byobu+screen rather than tmux, ask me again in april âº
<brobostigon> i have the byobu ppa on my vps, and on upgrade, it changed it to tmux automaticlly from screen.
<oimon> there seems to have been a massive upsurge in "share this when you see the optical illusion/photoshopped silly thing" on the internets
<oimon> or find the C in the line of OOO and then tell everybody you know!
<bigcalm> Recorded marketing call to my skype-in number. Weird when that happens
<popey> autodiallers I guess
<bigcalm> Aye
<popey> i never get a single one to my sipgate number fwiw
<popey> nobody ever calls it â¹
<bigcalm> 'exclusively in your area'. My Skype-in number is 0121 (Birmingham) while I'm hiding north of Telford :)
<bigcalm> Awww
<bigcalm> And now you've moved to google hangouts
<popey> tbh nobody actually has the number âº
<popey> my sipgate is actually a local number 01252
<kirrus> o/ webpigeon_laptop
 * oimon just remembered he brought a battenberg cake to work :D
 * bigcalm dials all 11 digit numbers starting with 01252
<davmor2> popey: that won't help for people trying to ring it then :P
<oimon> precise seems sluggish to me :(
<gord> hrm any reason why? been quite nippy for me
<popey> oimon: do you have two screens?
<oimon> gord: not sure. i have lucid on an identical box which admittedly is a different setup but a lot faster. seems to be a lot of delays waiting for stuff (logging in, starting software centre etc)
<oimon> popey: no, just one
<gord> software centre is well known to take several years to start up ;)
<oimon> also, notice that free ram is 3.3GB although i have 64bit installed :-\
<popey> i have that on my laptop
<popey> chipset issue
<popey> unfixable â¹
<oimon> no way :S
<oimon> weird
<gord> very
<oimon> better off having 32bit PAE then
<popey> not necessarily
<popey> but yeah, bummer
<popey> it's an intel chipset issue or something, not a new machine
<oimon> don't suppose there's a bug # for that?
<popey> no, its not a bug
<popey> its a hardware issue
<popey> on my machine at least
<oimon> my identical box running lucid is showing 4gb
<popey> so likely not the same issue as me then
<oimon> ah, not exactly identical - different cpus (and poss chipset)
<popey> its chipset specific
<popey> what chipset is the 3.3GB machine?
<popey> mine is intel 945
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/826392/
<oimon> they are both  Intel Corporation 82G33/G31/P35/P31
<oimon> desktop PCs
 * oimon checks the BIOS
 * davmor2 beats gord USC opens in under a second now on precise and then depending on your connection depends on the speed of the catalog update etc but it's getting better all the while :P
<popey> davmor2: lies
<popey> it takes at least 6 seconds here
<popey> i7 8GB SSD
<popey> so not a slouch
<popey> on second launch it takes 4 seconds
<popey> the window appears after 2 seconds but it's unusable so it's not fair to say it's "started"
<davmor2> popey: Software-center is started at that point it's the catalogue update that slows it down, but that is USC's frame even orca agrees it is :P
<davmor2> popey: the next release improves the way the catalogue update is done at that point it should give you gfx in the window quicker too,  but it's better than the 10-15 seconds it used to take
<popey> saying it's 'started' is meaningless if you're looking at a big grey square
<popey> yeah, it's a lot quicker
<oimon> runnign hdparm -t on the "very similar" machines gives 55MBs vs 80MBs ...so maybe some explanation of sluggishness
<LindaDamerell> hello - can anyone help me get my netbook Bluetooth working?
<bigcalm> !ask | LindaDamerell
<lubotu3> LindaDamerell: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience
<davmor2> LindaDamerell: what is or isn't working with it?
<smittix> Acer is sending me a Laptop to review. I wonder if they will let me keep it
<smittix> heh
<davmor2> smittix: possibly they can't sell it unless they pass it on to others to review
<LindaDamerell> in system settings it says no bluetooth adapters found
<bigcalm> LindaDamerell: Has it been enabled in the a) the bios, b) via a key combination to turn on/off wifi/bluetooth devices?
<DJones> LindaDamerell: Also, what model of laptop and does it dual boot with windows
<LindaDamerell> its an Eee PC netbook from Asus with only Ubunto (no windows on it) cant find on/off key and dont know whats meant by the bios sorry
<bigcalm> Ok, ignore the bios then :)
<bigcalm> I have an eeepc 1000, might be similar to yours
<popey> LindaDamerell: which specific model of Eee PC ?
<popey> some of them don't actually have bluetooth adapters inside them at all.
<popey> (I have one)
<bigcalm> On my netbook, there is a blue radio mast image on the f2 key. By pressing a combination of function + f2, it allows me to turn on/off wi-fi and bluetooth
<davmor2> LindaDamerell: ^
<diplo> Are there any other ways of getting into rescue mode other than disc/usb etc ?
<davmor2> diplo: hit the shift button past bios post
<diplo> oooh will try thank you!
<bigcalm> I need to mock up work flow diagrams. What might be a good application for this?
<AlanBell> libreoffice draw is OK
<AlanBell> or inkscape
<bigcalm> Ta
<bigcalm> I'll try out what's already install 1st ;)
<gord> inkscape :)
<oimon> would you believe i just had to install windows to update bios. this machine fails to boot from usb, and msdos livecd fails :(
<gord> it has nice connectors
<popey> yes
<popey> (I would believe)
<oimon> i even tried plugging another hard drive from another machine but windows endless reboot cycle..even in safe mode
 * oimon cries 
<davmor2> bigcalm: freemind, xmind
<oimon> overheard my baby boy singing in his cot this morning: http://soundcloud.com/oimon/twinkle
<oimon> bigcalm: firefox plugin called pencil too
<bigcalm> I thought pencil was for gui design only. I'll have a look
<bigcalm> Though I've just installed dia - might be just what I need
<zleap> AlanBell, CD's arrived this morning,  thanks,  also sent cheque off this morning
<smittix> davmor2: Hope so!
<AlanBell> zleap: cool
<zleap> np
<zleap> can we do something similar for 12.04 please
 * zleap has made a few stickers too,  got some sticker sheets from pound land :)
<gord> the big HMV in my town shut down and was replaced with a pound land
<gord> i mean, if anything says depression, its that
<zleap> well HMV are not doing that well,  but i see your point there,
<zleap> wel paignton has lots of charity shops and phone shops
<AlanBell> just gone 4, must be pub time
<AlanBell> or head slowly in the general direction of the pub time
 * brobostigon thinks along the same lines as AlanBell :)
<AlanBell> cask & kitchen in Pimlico if anyone is in London
<popey> not sure what time I will get into london â¹
<AlanBell> I have 4 eggs for you
<oimon> i got a case for my hp tablet from 99p shop
<oimon> i certainly spend more in there than i did in hmv
<oimon> they sell purdeys and some very nice tinned fruit
<zleap> when is the next podcast out,  my list of podcasts in firefox has had ep22 at the top for weeks, (or seems like it)
<popey> we're meeting up soon to discuss when we start recording
<zleap> thats ok, i was just asking in case i had missed something,  so it should auto update the list
<popey> we're meeting next week
<zleap> ok
<zleap> thanks
<oimon> popey: FYI i updated the BIOS (long story involving install MSDOS on drive) ..and now 4GB shows in "free"
<popey> yay
<oimon> maybe my machine might go faster in other areas too :D
<popey> sadly mine is unfixable
<oimon> a lesser mortal might have given up
<bigcalm> Revo?
<oimon> bigcalm: who?
<oimon> mine is a desktop
<bigcalm> I wondered if popey was referring to the Revo
<bigcalm> Mine won't see more than 3.5gb
<popey> nope
<popey> neither will mine
<czajkowski> popey: still on for drinks
<popey> trying
<kvarley> With tar how do I change to a directory and then tar the entire contents of the directory I just changed it with the -C option?
<popey> wifey had to go into work early because her co-worker was off ill
<popey> so she's going to be very tired when she comes in
<popey> and the kids need feeding and bathing
<czajkowski> popey: table is booked under LAura, have CC meeting till 6 then pegging it up, dominc and others will be there
<AlanBell> no table booked for laura
<czajkowski> there is
<czajkowski> for 6pm
<czajkowski> for 8 people
<tonytiger> Anyone know what's up with the ubuntu-uk.org server? Can't connect via SSH or HTTP
<Azelphur> tonytiger: I'm gonna guess crashed and needs a hard reboot, the ssh port is closed (connection refused) HTTP is open but unresponsive
<Azelphur> and it responds to ping
<tonytiger> Needs someone with console access then.
<czajkowski> Ubuntu-uk isnt hosted by canonical so they cant restart it
<popey> o/
<popey> /dev/xvda1 has gone 238 days without being checked, check forced.
<popey> Your disk drives are being checked for errors, this may take some time
<tonytiger> It's a bitfolk VPS
 * popey is on it
<tonytiger> k
<czajkowski> popey: thanks
<bigcalm> Is that why it broke?
<bigcalm> Find somewhere else to sit
<popey> i blame apache
<tonytiger> "I'll switch it to lighttpd one day"
<bigcalm> That's racist</meme>
<popey> yeah, thats probably going to be tomorrow
<bigcalm> Heh
<popey> should be back
<bigcalm> That it be
<tonytiger> Creeps in this petty pace
<bigcalm> Hehe "An image of the UK". That's a giggle
<bigcalm> That's a lot of Morgans
<bigcalm> I wonder if the house is in Malvern as well
<ahayzen> Hi Guys is the official Ubuntu-UK G+ page? https://plus.google.com/u/0/110834053865602900585/posts
<popey> yes
<ahayzen> popey: Thx ... just getting used to G+ ;)
<AlanBell> I may have arrived at the pub a fraction early
<issyl0> AlanBell: Pub?
<AlanBell> czajkowski is here
<issyl0> Aahh.
<issyl0> London?
 * bigcalm toodles off to make dinner before panic sets in over chairing the channel meeting
<davmor2> AlanBell: prod her and tell her it's a proxy prod from me
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Will 2012 be the year of Linux? - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=72
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Jono Bacon] Ubuntu Q+A Videocast Today - http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/02/01/ubuntu-qa-videocast-today/
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Iain Cuthbertson] Symfony 1.4 Doctrine 1.2 MS SQL Server - http://www.myrant.net/2012/02/02/symfony-1-4-doctrine-1-2-ms-sql-server/
<AlanBell> davmor2: poked
<davmor2> AlanBell: Yay now she will have that look of thunder and now way to let it go :D
<ali1234> should i opt out of this NHS Summary Care Record thing?
<seeker> I didn't
<seeker> At least, I think that was what I didn't opt out of
<AlanBell> popey: o/
<davmor2> AlanBell: surely you can wave at him there you don't need to do it here?
<AlanBell> he isn't here yet
<cliftonts> Is it just me or is it COLD??
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: it's just you
<Azelphur> yea, apparently it's -9
<cliftonts> O
<cliftonts> lol
<cliftonts> Where abouts are you Azelphur?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: I went for a run in that yesterday.. did 11km/hr instead of the 10/hr I normally do :)
<Azelphur> Margate
<Azelphur> haha
<cliftonts> Really?
<cliftonts> I have family there
<cliftonts> I'm near London
<Azelphur> :)
<Azelphur> used to live in bromley but moved out here a few years ago
<cliftonts> I'm planning on moving there but not for a few years yet
<cliftonts> right now though I'm battling the evil gay pre-payment meter. It's a case of balancing lack of cash against comfort
<Azelphur> haha
<cliftonts> I'm losing the battle, just turned it up a few notches
<Azelphur> cliftonts: if I get cold I just go stand in the bitcoin room
<cliftonts> bitcoin room?
<Azelphur> cliftonts: 8 computers all running flat out, generates a little under 2kw of heat
<cliftonts> Ah yes, well if I had that my pre-pay elec meter would get very hungry!
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> cliftonts: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110520_150522.jpg / http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/Photos/May%202011/IMG_20110525_034107.jpg
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: get rid of the pre-pay meter
<cliftonts> gordonjcp: Only if you'll pay the Â£1,500 I owe npower. They won't remove them until it's paid!
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: take out a bank loan to clear it
<cliftonts> A quick question. I'm installing ubuntu onto machine I'm going to sell at the comp fair this weekend. But the machine I'm working on now is too low spec to run reasonably even on xubuntu. Any suggestions for something reliable and easy to use on a low end system?
<gordonjcp> the interest on the loan will be roughly the same as the savings you get from not using pre-pay
<cliftonts> gordonjcp: What do you think the credit rating of someone who can run up that kind of arrears is like?
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: it's only 1500 quid
<cliftonts> only?
<gordonjcp> banks are pissing themselves to give away loans right now
 * Myrtti just smiles at the discussion about cold
<cliftonts> gordonjcp: Not to me they're not
<Azelphur> gordonjcp: they are...wat?
<cliftonts> I had to go to EVERY bank in town just to find one willing to give me a business account with no overdraft or lending
<Azelphur> gordonjcp: isn't it like, the exact opposite atm?
<Myrtti> cliftonts: lubuntu?
<cliftonts> Myrtti: Does that run noticably better than xubuntu then? I tried it once and couldn't even get it to boot
<Myrtti> cliftonts: well it is somewhat more lightweight that xubuntu
<cliftonts> I'll give it a go then
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: I get phoned up by them at least twice a week wanting me to borrow more money
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: even banks I don't have accounts with want me to set up loans
<gordonjcp> half my post is stuff about bank loans
<cliftonts> gordonjcp: As the only credit worthy citizen of Britain I beg of you to take out a loan to cover my bills. lol
<MartijnVdS> cliftonts: that's called issuing bonds.
<cliftonts> This is the problem though, we are in a 2 tier society. Some are being smothered in credit whilst others, like me, are left to fend for themselves
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: if you're clearing your debts, you're credit-worthy
<Azelphur> \o/
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: it doesn't matter if you still *have* debts, the fact that you're paying them off really improves things
<cliftonts> gordonjcp: Try telling the banks that. I'm credit worthy in so far as nobody will touch me with a barge pole
<cliftonts> Not even wonga.com! Now that's bad!
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: get a landline phone number, get on the electoral register
<cliftonts> check and check
<gordonjcp> and start making some payments, even a tenner a month, to everything you owe money on
<cliftonts> Every penny I have is divvied out by standing order every week
<cliftonts> has been for ages
<gordonjcp> shouldn't take more than a few months for your credit rating to start to come up
<cliftonts> gordonjcp: I don't mean to be rude but you appear to be living on another planet
<gordonjcp> but pre-pay meters are a serious ripoff
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: been there, done that
<cliftonts> yes, they are. And I fought them off for as long as I could
<cliftonts> but the alternative is they go to court and get an order allowing them to break in and fit them
<cliftonts> at least this way I get to keep my door!
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: at one point I had the electricity company just disconnect the pre-pay meter, and ran a diesel genny
<gordonjcp> far cheaper
<cliftonts> lol
<cliftonts> well good for you. I've gone on a strict regime of cutting back on usage
<cliftonts> I now know much more about how I use things and what it costs than ever before. I'm even converting to LED lighting
<cliftonts> I'm not 100% convinced it would be cheaper on diesel these days though. Haven't you noticed? EVERYTHING costs a bloody fortune at the moment!
<MartijnVdS> !politics
<lubotu3> Please take political discussion to ##politics-uk. Thank you!
<cliftonts> Right, time to see if lubuntu has what it takes
<DJones> cliftonts: Just for info, I put lubuntu on an old laptop at the weekend, 512Mb ram, no specialised graphics etc, and its pretty nippy
<cliftonts> DJones: I'm not sure what spec the machine I'm working with is. The Xubuntu live disc runs so slow it'd take me at least an hour to navigate that far!
<DJones> This was a dell d400 http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/dell-latitude-d400-series/4507-3121_7-21207517.html for compaison
<cliftonts> Well I'm burning to disc now so we'll know soon
<directhex> i had a d410
<directhex> i loved that freaking thing
<cliftonts> I had a D400 recently I think
<DJones> directhex: I never saw one of those, but I'm assuming it was as near to a netbook as you can get like the 400, while still being a laptop
<DJones> Looks about the same size
<cliftonts> Ok, here goes
<DJones> But much better quality from what I can see
<directhex> DJones, 12" pentium-m laptop
<cliftonts> Well the boot is damn slow! lol
<bigcalm> Is anybody free to chair tonight meeting? I am swamped with work
<cliftonts> DJones: I'm not convinced this is going to do it. It's still booting!
<bigcalm> Gary: hope you've had a totally gay day!
<cliftonts> Who was it who recommended lubuntu to me? I can't remember
<cliftonts> Success!
<DJones> cliftonts: Can you tell what the spec of the machine is now its got an o/s on it
<cliftonts> DJones: The machine never booted. I managed to get a cursor on the screen but the rest of the screen remained black then it crashed
<cliftonts> I'm using another machine now, but all the machines I've got here are too low spec for Ubuntu or Xubuntu
<DJones> Doesn't sound good for the prospects of it
<gordonjcp> cliftonts: how low spec are they?
<DJones> You could maybe look at this http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/
<cliftonts> gordonjcp I'm not 100% sure, I've got a lot of systems here and I lose track of which is which but we're probably looking at about 512mb ram
<cliftonts> DJones: I don't want to use anything like DSL because I'm selling them on and I find that when things go wrong on D
<cliftonts> DSL you need to KNOW what you are doing
<gordonjcp> 512 ought to be just about enough
<gordonjcp> what about CPU?
<cliftonts> just about, yes
<cliftonts> I don't know. I'm not familiar with lubuntu, I'm just figuring out where everything is, hang on a min
<cliftonts> P4 1.9ghz, 768mb ish ram,
<cliftonts> so this one's not too bad
<gordonjcp> well my laptop is a Celeron M 1.86GHz with 1G of RAM
<gordonjcp> and it runs Ubuntu just fine
<gordonjcp> bloody quick actually
<gordonjcp> I use the 2d desktop because it has Intel graphics
<cliftonts> gordonjcp: I had a batch of HP machines recently which reasonable specs which refused to run ubuntu at reasonable speed yet kubuntu was fine
<cliftonts> I find they tend to be illogical like that sometimes
<gordonjcp> weird
<gordonjcp> this is an HP laptop, I'm running an HP desktop
<cliftonts> just go with whatever the system likes, don't argue with it
<gordonjcp> the desktop for some reason really does not like the 3D desktop
<gordonjcp> again, Intel graphics, so it's not really supported in Linux
<cliftonts> the problem I think is when you've got tons of ram, drive space and processing power you don't notice if something is slightly off
<cliftonts> but when everything is to the wire, if one thing doesn't like it the whole system slows down
<cliftonts> I understand the HP systems has an issue with graphics drivers
<DJones> cliftonts: I've found that newer intels are ok, I've got 2 at home and they work fine with Ubuntu & unity, but as you say, these are 4Gb ram, so if something is off, its not noticable
<cliftonts> DJones: Exactly, these HPs were ok with 1gb ram, I did sell one with ubuntu on but the others had 760mb or 512mb and just couldn't hack it.
<DJones> These 2 machines are < 12 months old as well
<AlanBell> hello
<DJones> Evening eggsnatcher
<cliftonts> No matter. I've got a new supplier who'll be doing me laptops anyway
<AlanBell> meeting time in a sec
<cliftonts> Hey Alan, do you know if you'll be stopping by my place on Sat or Sun?
 * AlanBell has had several adult beverages
<cliftonts> good plan!
<AlanBell> saturday cliftonts
<cliftonts> Cool, I'll leave the door unlocked so you can just put the discs in the porch, ok?#
<bigcalm> AlanBell: I'm still working, sorry I can't chair tonight
 * AlanBell heads over to #ubuntu-uk-meeting
<bigcalm> Thanks, sorry
<AlanBell> ok
<cliftonts> Thanks for that, much appreciated
<cliftonts> Don't you just love it when you spend 15 mins stripping a system out of a knackered case only to find the new one is too small?
 * AlanBell whips out a big one in the pub
<AlanBell> laptop > phone
<djbenny> evening
<zleap> evening
<zleap> just watched the 12,04 alpha 2 video,  rather impressive
<djbenny> where is viewable from?
<cliftonts> djbenny: omgubuntu.co.uk
<cliftonts> I'm just about to install it myself
<djbenny> cheers
<cliftonts> np
<djbenny> ah yeah just seen it now
<djbenny> looking good
<djbenny> still wish there was a simple option to get rid of the workspace switcher
<cliftonts> I haven't seen the vid but I tried to install the HUD and my install hasn't booted since!
<djbenny> unless im being stupid...
<cliftonts> So I'm hoping a reinstall will fix that
<djbenny> ahh
<djbenny> yeah thats no good
<cliftonts> djbenny: I think the finishing touches like that will be added in time. I bet there's a way in dconf or something like that
<cliftonts> http://askubuntu.com/questions/38789/remove-the-workspace-switcher-launcher-from-unity-launcher
<djbenny> ahh well i cant be bothered with all that stuff, should just be easy option
<cliftonts> djbenny: There you go
<djbenny> lol
<cliftonts> Agreed but it's still a very young system remember
<djbenny> ahh ive done that already and it didnt work
<cliftonts> fair enough
 * AlanBell haz beer, night all o/
<cliftonts> bye alan
<djbenny> bye
<zleap> I can see the idea of the login background changer causing issues
<cliftonts> why's that?
<zleap> what happens if you have a rather risque image as your desktop background
<cliftonts> well, if the login displays your background.....choose with caution
<zleap> exactly
<djbenny> haha
<cliftonts> but why would that be a problem? Anyone who can see your background when logging in still has eyes when you've logged in
<djbenny> im sure you dont have to have that?
<zleap> it could be good for people who have admin accounts on business systems, as it could display a warning
<zleap> i know some really old systems did that, had a red background screen with skulls and crossbones, to remind you that being root could be dangerous
<cliftonts> well, I'm off to install 12.04. brb
<djbenny> yeahs true
<djbenny> zleap: yup we had that on a few systems i used at university
<zleap> may download at some point and have a look
<zleap> i like the look of that 0AD rts game too
<djbenny> yeah, ive only got a netbook though not sure it can handle much more
<djbenny> hedgewars struggles lol
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> my dell netbook plays open arena nicely
<djbenny> ahh well mines 4 years old now
<zleap> i have a mini 10fv
<zleap> mini 10v
<djbenny> ahh i have a toshiba nb200
<zleap> not sure what the spec of that is
<djbenny> 1.8ghz,2gb 160gb
<djbenny> single core
<zleap> that should play open arena nicely
<zleap> dell 10v has 1gb ram I think
<djbenny> ahh well i dont really have time to play games lol
<zleap> ah
<djbenny> always working >.<
<djbenny> 5am to 8pm monday to friday, then travelling in the weekend lol
<zleap> ouch
<djbenny> yup
<zleap> i am looking for more hours at the moment
<zleap> 4 hours a week at an after school club
<djbenny> joys of being IT support
<djbenny> lol
<djbenny> was looking at installing ubuntu on my phone
<djbenny> its more powerful than my netbook
<zleap> cool
<djbenny> seen instructions for it, although it doesnt look straight forward
<zleap> i was trying to create a custom open disc but kinda started now project is more on hold
<djbenny> guess not much it
<zleap> this is where user group meetings are handy
<zleap> you canget help from others
<djbenny> true
<djbenny> right im off up in a got to wake up in a few hours to get to work..
<jacobw> evening
<swat_> hmmm, precise upgrade seems to want to remove a lot of packages :/
<ubuntubhoy> and install a lot of new ones
<ubuntubhoy> and update a lot of others
<swat_> yeah, it's the removals that concern me
<swat_> like why does it want to strip out unity 2d?
<directhex> 2d is for nerds and losers?
<jacobw> 2d is for flat earthers
<ubuntubhoy> 2d is for one eyed people
<swat_> that's not particularly helpful :)
<swat_> it wants to remove the update manager too
<ubuntubhoy> thats handy
<jacobw> it sounds as if the packages are broken
<jacobw> or your packages are broken
<jacobw> are you upgrading precise or upgrading to precise?
<ali1234> "Your system does not contain a ubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-desktop or edubuntu-desktop package and it was not possible to detect which version of Ubuntu you are running.
<ali1234>  Please install one of the packages above first using synaptic or apt-get before proceeding."
<jacobw> lol
<ali1234> -_-
<ali1234> i'm guessing that is somehow related
<ali1234> "The package 'ubuntu-desktop' is marked for removal but it is in the removal blacklist."
<ali1234> so yeah, like it says "Please try again later"
<cliftonts> why doesn't 12.04 want to play nicely with me?
<ali1234> looks like temporary breakage
<ali1234> see above
<cliftonts> The A2 CD refuses to install, it gets past the partitioner then says 'removing conflicting system files' What it really means is 'removing grub then doing sod all!'
<directhex> grub is for girls. manly men poke their RAm with a battery until the system boots
<ali1234> well i dunno abut that
<ali1234> try a daily image?
<swat_> jacobw: upgrading precise
<cliftonts> shouldn't the A2 be pretty close to the daily image right now?
<directhex> ali1234, sounds like glib breakage
<cliftonts> I just installed 11.10 and it won't let me upgrade either. Looks like it can't resolve the dependancies
<jacobw> cliftonts: have you tried stopping the installer and running grub-install manually?
<cliftonts> I've got a weird issue though with my mouse which really makes no sense at all
<cliftonts> jacobw: no I just reinstalled 11.10
<directhex> precise is totally broken right now, until updated gtk+ lands
<cliftonts> ok, see if you can wrap your head round this. I have 2 installs on my machine, 11.10 which works fine and I had 12.04 where the trackpad works for under 5 mins then conks out
<ali1234> that old chestnut
<cliftonts> I wasn't too bothered but I've replaced it with a fresh 11.10 install, root partition formatted, home not. Now 11.10 is doing the same thing
<ali1234> bug 868400
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 868400 in lightdm (Ubuntu Precise) "Synaptics touchpad stops working - two syndaemon instances running" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868400
<cliftonts> But my OTHER 11.10 is fine
<cliftonts> lubotu3: But why is 11.10 doing it too now?
<ali1234> it's a timeout issue
<ali1234> and i'm pretty sure its been fixed once
<ali1234> there's a workaround you can use on one of the bug reports
<ali1234> possibly one of the dupes
<cliftonts> I remember having it some time ago yes
<cliftonts> But why is one install ok and another, fresh from the same disc not?
<ali1234> how can you install 11.10 and 12.04 from the same disc?
<cliftonts> ali1234: I wiped 12.04 because it's deader than dead. The root partition was formatted, the home wasn't and I put 11.10 in it's place, intending to upgrade to 12.04
<cliftonts> surely that means the cause of the problem must be in my home partition?
<ali1234> right
<cliftonts> .....somewhere
<cliftonts> any suggestions on what may be the culprit?
<ali1234> read the bug comments
<ali1234> i can't remember how you fix it. it's some gnome settings
<cliftonts> will do
<jacobw> first tets that is a problem with your home directory by creating a new user
<ali1234> something like "mouse.autodisable = false" or something
<jacobw> *test
<cliftonts> I like your thinking jacobw
<cliftonts> I'll brb then
<cliftonts> ubuntu is trying to get clever
<cliftonts> it didn't want me to set a short password. I'll decide what is acceptable thank you!
<cliftonts> brb then
<cliftonts> interesting...
<cliftonts> I now have a fully functioning trackpad
<Gary> bigcalm: I have that!
<Gary> thank you
<jacobw> you may save time by moving your files to the new user's home and removing the old user
<bigcalm> Gary: yay, and a Happy Birthday to you too :)
<cliftonts> jacobw: time yes but I'd like to know what's causing it
<cliftonts> ok, I'm switching back
<cliftonts> so when will this gtk issue be sorted then?
<directhex> within hours, i'd guess
<cliftonts> cool, I'd love to have a play around with this hud thing
<cliftonts> I fixed my trackpad! I think it's a compiz issue
<jacobw> read the bug report ;)
<jacobw> what is your gtk issue?
<cliftonts> I dunno, someone just said precise won't install until 'the gtk+ issue' is resolved
<jacobw> who is the fool on the microphone in question time right now :|
<cliftonts> erm.. I'll just load iplayer
<jacobw> oh, the gtk issue is the broken packages
<jacobw> these things happens in the alpha stage of the development cycle
<cliftonts> just for once I'd like a pre-release version to work, just for a bit
<cliftonts> I know
 * jacobw points to debian's 'constantly usable testing'
<jacobw> i shouldn't watch question time, it just makes me angry
<directhex> jacobw,  2 turntables and a microphone?
<directhex> that's what bbcqt needs. rap battles
<cliftonts> I remember way back when being able to install and use the pre-release versions. Ok everything crashed a lot and updating was 'interesting' but now they don't even install
<jacobw> ha, the tories would go for it
<directhex> bottles & cans & just clap your hands & just clap your haaaaaands
<directhex> WHERE IT'S AT!
<directhex> i got 2 turntables and a microphooooone!
<cliftonts> I hate beck
<directhex> WHERE IT'S AT!
<directhex> i got 2 turntables and a microphooooone!
<directhex> hm, how to get more annoying from bold/colored
<cliftonts> what?
<jacobw> i didn't get the bold or the coloured :(
<cliftonts> nor me
<jacobw> meh
<directhex> ... this channel strips colors?
<ali1234> i'm pretty sure all of freenode does
<cliftonts> well that's just boring
<jacobw> ++freenode
<ali1234> at the very it does by default, unless you change a setting on the channel
<directhex> freeeeeeeenoooooooooooooode!
<directhex> http://khaaan.com/
<cliftonts> what are these morons on the bbc going on about?
<jacobw> lol
<jacobw> gov.uk is awesome
<cliftonts> ??
<jacobw> its the replacement for directgov.uk
<jacobw> direct.gov.uk even
<cliftonts> I wasn't aware there was one, or that we needed one
<cliftonts> damnit!
<cliftonts> they finished filming the new series of red dwarf in front of live audiences last week AND NOBODY EVEN TOLD ME IT WAS HAPPENING!
<jacobw> RSS is a good thing
<directhex> cliftonts, after the last one though... :/
<cliftonts> apparently it's supposed to be back on top form
<cliftonts> we'll see towards the end of the year
<cliftonts> looks like precise is back up again
<czajkowski> aloha
<jacobw> hey
<jacobw> lightning bug is such a great app
<cliftonts> what's that?
<jacobw> its an alarm clock application, that runs in the foreground and plays background noise
<jacobw> for example, my phone is now producing the sound of a beach at night with waves crashing on the shore and birds making noises
<cliftonts> lol fair enough
<jacobw> at 0600 i'll be woken up by the birds waking up
<cliftonts> what platform is it on?
<jacobw> android
<cliftonts> cool. I'll check it out then
<jacobw> there's various themes, i'm using 'beach at night' but you use 'new york city' or the simple 'whitenoise' themes
<cliftonts> could not be downloaded due to an error -101
<jacobw> wifi
<cliftonts> I'm on wifi
<cliftonts> I think I was out of space
<cliftonts> I think this would just annoy me by the sound of it
<jacobw> i like background noises
<jacobw> anyhow, 0600 is quite soon
<jacobw> goodnight
<cliftonts> I don't like these background noises lol
<cliftonts> night
<directhex> hm. picking a wardrobe is such hard work
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-03
<directhex> do i wear my qt <3 ubuntu tshirt, or my opensolaris tshirt?
<Azelphur> Ubuntu :P
<gord> if i'm wearing my conference shirts, it generally means its prolly laundry day
<directhex> heh
<directhex> if i don't wear my Qt tee, how will people know i love Qt?
<directhex> see also opensolaris
<Azelphur> for maps in a game, creative commons is a suitable license, right?
<directhex> depends on which rights you want to confer and which to reserve
<directhex> i.e. "what do you want to do?"
<Azelphur> directhex: thinking of running a contest on my game servers, get some nice new maps made
<Azelphur> so I was thinking enforce CC license without the commercial clause (since I'm aiming towards commercial)
<directhex> CC-BY-ND or CC-BY?
<Azelphur> probably CC-BY
<directhex> as long as the licenses of content you consume - textures for example - don't go against that
<directhex> i don't remember if hl2 engine cooks the textures into the map file
<Azelphur> good point, I'll ask about
<Azelphur> wtf -.- job centre apparently just phoned my dad to tell me I'd missed an appointment that they never booked with me, and arn't supposed to be booking with me at all
<directhex> just? at 1am?
<Azelphur> sorry, not just, haha
<Azelphur> my dads slow/inaccurate at reporting things, so will need to call back and see what's going on, they havn't even scheduled an appointment with me or anything :/
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> Morning
<popey> x220 out for delivery \o/
<MooDoo> yay...it's had a long journey :D
<Myrtti> boo, we ordered a winter coat and it'll be here on Monday - D will fly today :-|
<Myrtti> -23C :-|
<MooDoo> Myrtti: wow where are you?
<Myrtti> my apartment in Finland
<Myrtti> it's been -38.5C up north earlier this week
<MooDoo> blimey.....
<MooDoo> it's -5 here where i am....
<Myrtti> second round in presidential elections and people are campaigning out there...
<Myrtti> madness
<MooDoo> well they got to do it
<diplo> Morning all
<Myrtti> schools have limits on how cold the kids go out for recess
<daubers> `Morning
<daubers> AlanBell: Which week are the happy hours in normally?
<czajkowski> aloha
<MooDoo> morning czajkowski
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all - looks like AlanBell had a dodgy pint last night.
<daubers> oh dear, should we all point and laugh now?
<popey> hah
<popey> just the one?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Well, he "says" it's food poisoning ;-) Apparently been up all night on the great white telephone.
<Myrtti> oh my
<popey> bless
<popey> can't take him anywhere
<Myrtti> well atleast for once I can feel old in a positive way
<smittix> hmm my server randomly shut down last night
<Myrtti> http://en.ilmatieteenlaitos.fi/weather/Kuusamo - Kuusamo is in East Lapland
<Myrtti> (real data is the line graph below, prediction is above)
<MooDoo> wow -38 on sunday
 * czajkowski is writing her slides now ....
<czajkowski> FECK!!!
<s-fox> Hello.
<oimon> http://gizmodo.com/5874133/olpc-xo-30-hands-on-the-100-wonder-tablet the OLPC tablet looks quite good
<MooDoo> hello s-fox
<MooDoo> hello czajkowski you ok hun?
<s-fox> Hello MooDoo , how are you ? :-) Still at the photography?
<MooDoo> s-fox: very well thanks :) yes i'm still at it :D
<czajkowski> MooDoo: aye
<MooDoo> czajkowski: just checking due to the FECK!!! :)
 * bigcalm zaps a beer to AlanBell for chairing last night's meeting from a pub while I continued working.
<bigcalm> AlanBell: will make it a real one next time I'm your way
<bigcalm> Hi peeps
 * popey is saving eggs for tomorrow
<JamesTait> Happy Friday, everyone! :D
<JamesTait> popey: What's tomorrow?
<popey> Saturday
<daubers> JamesTait: You weekend worshipper you!
<popey> When we usually have boiled eggs for brekkie
<popey> that or croissants
<popey> or bacon
<JamesTait> Nice.
<JamesTait> We should do something like that.
<JamesTait> daubers: Not really, but I like to play along for those who are. ;)
<popey> weekdays kids are ina hurry so we just have cereal
 * JamesTait nods
<Twinkletoes> General question... What mailing lists/blogs/websites do people subscribe to/look at for general IT security-related alerts?
 * daubers is off paintballing tomorrow \o/
<popey> too cold for paintball âº
 * JamesTait will mostly be looking for a new car.
<MooDoo> lazer tag
<Twinkletoes> popey: Hey! - When paintballs *don't* explode on impact, it bloody hurts
<gord> nice warm cup of tea... athon
<popey> hah
 * bigcalm is ignoring computers for 48 hours  tomorrow (that's the plan any way)
<MooDoo> paintball rocks
<popey> lies
<popey> http://imgur.com/H6xfj nearly there
<bigcalm> Ooooo
<TheOpenSourcerer> me thinks someone is a tad excited...
<oimon> Twinkletoes: http://isc.sans.org/ is quite good, but i am on various lists for specific stuff since IT is very broad and i don't care much about mac and win security issues
<bigcalm> I hope it's worth it
<Twinkletoes> oimon: thx
<popey> just a bit TheOpenSourcerer :D
<TheOpenSourcerer> I bet popey won't be "ignoring computers for 48 hours" this weekend
<bigcalm> popey: reminds me of when I ordered my Nexus One. I may have spammed here about it a little as well
<oimon> the reality ne'er meets up to the hype
<danfish> morning
<oimon> after a day you think meh it's just a box i run stuff on
<JamesTait> What have you ordered, popey?
<danfish> ooh - BT Vision doing a sky and moving to linux http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/03/bt_vision_upgrade/
<popey> JamesTait: x220
<JamesTait> Oh yeah, I remember you saying now.
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: My mate works and sky was responsible for the OTA update from vxWorks to Linux last year on the Sky+ boxes - That's big cahonas if you ask me.
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: I remember you saying that - definitely a gutsy move. Not sure I trust BT to make it go as smoothly.....
<TheOpenSourcerer> Quite.
<danfish> The inlaws have got it, so I expect some help calls sometime soon :(
<bigcalm> popey: does it come with the windows tax?
<directhex> TheOpenSourcerer: skyboxes aren't vxworks anymore?
<popey> bigcalm: yes
<TheOpenSourcerer> I want to draw some fairly simple object diagrams for a functional spec on a project. Dia or OOo Draw?
<TheOpenSourcerer> directhex: Certainly the Sky+ HD aren't running vx anymore.
<bigcalm> popey: putting in an ssd?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Not sue if they have updated all devices.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s/sure
<popey> bigcalm: no
<bigcalm> 
 * popey has updated the dns records for ubuntu-uk.org and all the subdomains (mootbot, podcast, static.podcast, pastebin) - let me know if something breaks please!
<popey> old IP is 212.13.194.123
<popey> new IP is 85.119.82.123
<TheOpenSourcerer> That'll be a bitfolk server then popey
<TheOpenSourcerer> Had to do the same thing to one of ours the other day
<popey> âº
<popey> left it a bit late
<TheOpenSourcerer> I didn't get the orginal email about it. Only found out 2 weeks ago.
<DJones> Just having a play with bitlbee, does anybody know if there are issues with it connecting to msn accounts, I can see bug reports talking about it and wondered if anybody was aware of a fix for it
<diplo> popey / TheOpenSourcerer, BitFolk best VPS company to go for atm, want to move away from my GoDaddy hosting
<TheOpenSourcerer> diplo: I guess it depends on what you need. We mainly use Hetzner now but we rent bare metal servers. We have a bitfolk VPS which has been very reliable and have no problems with it.
<BigRedS> Has anyone got VPS majorly wrong? I don't think I've ever heard a VPS horror story...
<diplo> Hosting half a dozen sites TheOpenSourcerer and use as a backup for my images via rsync
<diplo> No heavy use at all
<diplo> About Â£12 a month for what i need
<diplo> I pay Â£6 a month atm on shared so not the end of the world
<shauno> BigRedS: I had one that had no idea of the concept of uptime.  they've since relocated and seem to be behaving now tho, so I won't name them
<popey> mine has 3 9's uptime âº
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/827459/
<BigRedS> ooooh, not come across uprecords before
<shauno> yeah, I've had zero problems with bitfolk.  and they've been pretty nifty whenever I've needed to bug them about anything too
<popey> tis fun BigRedS
<Myrtti> BigRedS: my VPS went wrong, but it was hosted by a friend on a second-hand server in a server room I had no idea of
<Myrtti> and it was too costly for my needs anyway
<BigRedS> popey: debian seems to only have the cgi version
<BigRedS> oh, it includes that binary
<BigRedS> nifty
<diplo> I've always had servers with gigs of ram in them hosted locally, 480mb ram for non busy sites be ok with apache, or better to learn a leaner web server ?
<DJones> This sounds promising, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/02/03/bt_vision_upgrade/ BT Vision top upgrade set top boxes from Windows CE to Linux over the air
<m4r35n357> is there a simple explanation of what the different virtualbox packages are?
<shauno> DJones: what could possibily go wrong ;)
<DJones> shauno: My thoughts as well
<m4r35n357> there are two DKMS packages, guest ISO and guest packages, with complicated dependencies and conflicts, and little or no guidance
 * smittix really can't see why my VPS host can't send a mail out for scheduled down time.
<smittix> Instead I have to check their service status page everyday just to make sure I know when they are going to take my server offline :/
<m4r35n357> I've just failed to install pangolin alpha, because it wants the DKMS package
<m4r35n357> which I had, bit it was removed when I asked for the guest packages
<m4r35n357> and trying to reinstall it causes a conflict that I'm not sure how to resolve
<m4r35n357> the whole thing is a mess!
<m4r35n357> should I use the DKMS or the guest DKMS?
<m4r35n357> should I use the guest packages or the guest ISO package?
<m4r35n357> grrr!
<m4r35n357> maybe I should just not bother testing . . . . ?
<kirrus> m4r35n357: it's alpha! Expect it to break in interesting and horrible ways :P
<m4r35n357> kirrus, what, virtualbox?  did you read my question?
<kirrus> "failed to install pangolin alpha"
<m4r35n357> and the rest . . .
<m4r35n357> it's a virtualbox question
<m4r35n357> not a pangolin question
<popey> which virtualbox package did you install?
<popey> (I have never had this problem with vb)
<m4r35n357> popey, I wanted the base package, but with guest additions, the synaptic descriptions are just confusing
<popey> what version of ubuntu are you on?
<m4r35n357> and selecting various things deselects other things, with no overall explanation
<m4r35n357> 11.04
<popey> sudo apt-get install virtualbox-ose
<popey> that should be sufficient to get virtualbox installed
<m4r35n357> I have now got the DKMS installed by using synaptic (the command line gave me a conflict), which deinstalled teh guest DKMS, whatever that is
<popey> (I usually use the deb from their website tbh)
<m4r35n357> so there are two DKMS packages, basically, why?
<popey> why do you care?
<popey> just install virtualbox and run it
<m4r35n357> well I want to undestand what I am doing
<popey> anything that has -guest- in the name is intended to be installed (sorry if this sounds dumb) in the 'guest' not the 'host' machine
<popey> i.e. on 11.04 (your host) you don't install -guest- packages
<popey> but in your 12.04 install _inside_ the VM you _do_
<popey> make sense?
<m4r35n357> yeah, sort of, but there is a confusing package linkage that got me
<m4r35n357> anyway, "no bootable medium found" is the latest issue
<m4r35n357> I've tried it on IDE primary and secondary master, maybe it doesn't like the image being on a NAS?
<popey> image?
<m4r35n357> ISO image
<m4r35n357> I'm copying it to my home dir to try again
<popey> dont think it cares where it is, so long as it's accessible
<m4r35n357> well I can read it, but VB can't ;)
<m4r35n357> nope, won't load from home dir either
<m4r35n357> maybe the ISO is corrupt . . .
<popey> which iso did you grab?
<popey> I'll test here
<m4r35n357> hold on, I'll check teh md5sum
<m4r35n357> looks good to me
<m4r35n357> its' the Xubuntu desktop
<m4r35n357> but I haven't used VB for a while, so I might have got something wrong
<m4r35n357> aha!
<m4r35n357> yep, my fault, I had the CD disabled!
<m4r35n357> hmmm, refuses to run live CD, complaining about missing pae, whatever that is
<m4r35n357> also, wants me to select 32 bit graphics, but I can't find the option
<m4r35n357> now a "critical error" from VB . ..
<m4r35n357> yep, it insists on pae, but fails if I enable it, giving up!
<popey> hah
<m4r35n357> well over the years I've acquired a good sense of when to surrender ;)
<m4r35n357> I'm a bit of an old hand with Debian/Ubuntu
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<DJones> Morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning DJones
<DJones> brobostigon: You might just be the person I want to speak to, do you use bitlbee?
<brobostigon> DJones: i do, yes.
<DJones> I've just been playing around getting it working for chat accounts, I can get gtalk working fine, but msn fails at getting the buddy list, have you had that problem?
<brobostigon> DJones: yes, the normal bitlbee failed there here aswell, untill i used bitlbee-libpurple, which uses libpurple insted of bitlbee's own protocol stack, msn works with that.
<DJones> is that in the repo's? or do you have to compile it manually?
<brobostigon> DJones: i use bitlbee ppa here, and it is in there.
<brobostigon> !info bitlbee-libpurple
<lubotu3> bitlbee-libpurple (source: bitlbee): An IRC to other chat networks gateway (using libpurple). In component universe, is optional. Version 3.0.3-1ubuntu0.1 (oneiric), package size 119 kB, installed size 288 kB
<DJones> Found it anyway
<brobostigon> ok, it is in the repos.
<brobostigon> DJones: you may have to readd or change some of the account parameters, i had to, some of the account details dont follow over properly. between one and the other.
<DJones> I'd deleted the account anyway, just readding and testing again
<brobostigon> ok.
<DJones> It authenticated, but still fails at the buddy list
<brobostigon> DJones: i dont know then, i would maybe try the version in their ppa, as that work here, and is alittle newer.
<DJones> brobostigon: Thats the one I'm using, maybe need to completely stop & restart bitlbee
<brobostigon> DJones: that is what i did, yes.
<DJones> brobostigon: How do you quit bitlbee without quitting irssi?
<brobostigon> DJones: i killed the channel, and the /disconnect from the network name, you connected to.
<Gary> http://imgur.com/a/7GyVH#0  green snotrocket! ftw
<DJones> Gary: Why is that headed up "MX5 sport black" when its green ?
<DJones> brobostigon: Thanks
<brobostigon> DJones: :)
<smittix> Yay! Ubuntu Unleashed 2012 has arrived.
<Gary> DJones: because it's a green sport black edition mx5
<daubers> green sport black yellow red edition?
<DJones> Right..... :)
<Gary> I don't query mazda's naming, I just bought the thing :p
<Gary> they did em in red and white too, but not black!
<Gary> (there is a lot of black trim though)
<brobostigon> DJones: also, i am using the pidgin ppa, so i also have the latest version of libpurple, for it to use, which may help also.
<gord> anyone know if webdav sucks? looking for a backup solution that doesn't require me to input a password (so i can automate) but isn't just cp -r * /path/to/samba/share
<mgdm> ssh with a key?
<mgdm> webdav is... complicated
<popey> i backup the other way round, run backup on server that pulls from laptop/desktop
<popey> and that uses ssh keys
<gord> hey that is a point, ssh with a key should work
<gord> the real question is why was dejadup asking me for a key
<gord> password*
<TheOpenSourcerer> gord I run a bash script on my little server that wakes up the machines around the house and backs up from one to another - no passwords all done using ssh keys and rsync.
<gord> grumble dejadup backs up stupid stuff
<gord> really don't need it to back up my browser cache
<diplo> popey, to answer your question from earlier, dns is still resolving to old ip for podcast.xxxxx etc of 213 and not the new one on Virgin here atm
<popey> diplo: yeah, taking an age
<diplo> not sure when you made the change but it's not propagated yet
<diplo> :)
<diplo> Not sure if you saw my Q earlier, what web server do you run on your vps ?
<diplo> Do you have the default 480mb ?
<popey> diplo: mine has 128mb
<diplo> oh right :)
<diplo> do you run apache ? Was going to try and find out myself but as i can't resolve the sites i couldnt check
<diplo> :P
<popey> diplo: no, i use lighttpd
<oimon> gord: i tried using webdav feature supplied by box.net and it sucked royally
<oimon> i gave up my rsync because it didn't seem to actually do anything. wondering if thats box.net or webdav's fault
<diplo> cheers popey
<daubers> \o/ coffee machine
<davmor2> morningish all
<daubers> davmor2: Afternoon
<czajkowski> Choooo choo
<oimon> ugh i always regret eating a pasty about 5 seconds after finishing
<Gary> same
 * popey cuddles Gary 
<Gary> I just had most of a large dominos pizza for lunch, i'll probably feel ill in about 30 min
<Gary> hey popey you sexy beast
<oimon> wondering whether to wash down with crisps or straight to the batternberg
<Gary> beer for washing down
<oimon> what's the proper name for sysadmins law? (no changes after lunch on a friday)
<BigRedS> poets day?
<BigRedS> oh, no, that's way more general and just about going home early
<oimon> this guy wants to name it after himself (2nd law) http://barry.warsaw.us/software/laws.html
<oimon> looks like it's there for the taking
<Gary> no changes when I'm drunk law?
<davmor2> jpds: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/software-center/+bug/921657
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 921657 in software-center (Ubuntu) "permissions issue accessing deb lines" [Undecided,New]
<AlanBell> morning all
<directhex> morning?
<AlanBell> I just woke up so it is morning
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hello AlanBell How are you?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Dodgy pint? Or dodgy chicken kebab
<directhex> nice logic
<AlanBell> whatever it was my body decided to make sure it wss all gone every 20 minutes to 6:30
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh dear.
<directhex> i am in london.
<popey> hehe
<Gary> condolances
<directhex> not for long though
<bigcalm> AlanBell: oh dear, I hope it doesn't put you off future drinks and kebabs
<bigcalm> Something to be said for working for yourself
 * popey waits for his neighbour to come home
<popey> UPS dropped my laptop off to neigbour
<bigcalm> So you're waiting on their doorstep and are chatting via your phone
<bigcalm> Have you considered breaking a window?
<popey> hah, no, i have one eye on the road to see when he gets back
<popey> yes
<bigcalm> Haha
<popey> they already have one
<bigcalm> tonytiger: how far north would you be willing to travel for a wedding shoot?
<bigcalm> And are you available Autumn 2013?
 * bigcalm ponders a twitter fall at his wedding reception
<gord> i can do your wedding photos
<popey> with a 3ds?
<gord> my nexus camera is fine right?
<gord> or the 3ds
<gord> then its in 3d!
<gord>  or the 3ds + nexus camera taped on, 4d!
<bigcalm> Ha
<bigcalm> Oh dear
<gord> i took my old ds to my brothers wedding, they wern't happy about that
<bigcalm> Wonder why
<popey> would be fun to have an end of level tone play when the 'you may kiss the bride' bit comes up
<Gary> I did the pics for my brothers wedding, and have got a better camera since then too
<Gary> bigcalm: where?
<bigcalm> Shropshire
<bigcalm> popey: oggcamp can't clash, please ensure
<Gary> bigcalm: eek, at least 3 hours away, 215 miles
<Gary> popey: or a level up tone
<bigcalm> Gary: yet, not everything happens down sauf :P
<Gary> I ain't that southern
<Gary> innit
<popey> bigcalm: tricky given I don't know when your wedding is
<gord> drowning music from sonic would be more interesting
<bigcalm> popey: autumn 2013 :P
 * seeker needs a wedding photographer
<popey> BE MORE SPECIFIC
<popey> seeker: meet tonytiger
<popey> http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/weddings/
<seeker> Shiny
<Laney> "grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat"
<popey> http://xi3.org/
 * seeker will pass link on to someone that is allowed to make decisions about said wedding
<bigcalm> Heh
<bigcalm> seeker: know the feeling :P
<seeker> :)
<seeker> popey: Any idea who makes the GPU in that?
<popey> no
<popey> that link is all i know
<brobostigon> any perticuler recommendarion for an anti-virus/general security app, for android?
<popey> I wouldn't bother
<brobostigon> why?
<brobostigon> i have pray, already.
<popey> why have one?
<brobostigon> or why i shouldnt?
<brobostigon> thr immediate disadvanteges that come to mind are, use of ram and cpu, so, ie , not leaving as much for the other things i ant to run.
<seeker> brobostigon: I have a rock you can buy which keeps away tigers
<brobostigon> seeker: haha.
<seeker> popey: Hmm, similar price to a mac mini
<brobostigon> also increases the wake time, so, ie, get higher battery drain.
<popey> I'm trying to get to "why have one"
<popey> not "why not have one"
<brobostigon> android targetted virii/malware etc.
<popey> is there a real problem with that?
<brobostigon> depends on who i talk to, and what i read.
<oimon> seeker: apparently horse chestnuts keep spider away
<oimon> brobostigon: are you frequenting the chinese 3rd party wallpaper app markets much?
<brobostigon> oimon: no.
<oimon> i install 1 new app a month if that. and usually used by 500,000 others
<oimon> not everyone is me though, i admit
<brobostigon> oimon: yes, i take sensible precautions, of research like that, also.
<brobostigon> ok, i get the impression, having just prey, is going to be enough.
<oimon> brobostigon: google are scanning apps now too. tbh i thought they already were
<brobostigon> oimon: that was my though also,
<oimon> sat down again with 4 DEs last night, trying to decide what to use in 12.04
<oimon> i thought that gnome shell with extensions would supply my needs but the title bars etc are enormous
<oimon> and the extensions are a bit glitchy
<oimon> i might end up settling for unity with docky, minus global menu, buttons on right and 10 seconds reveal on launcher(i.e. hidden)
<oimon> or XFCE :D
<diplo> oimon, My friends have horse chestnuts outside there front and back door, they reckon it's worked really well
<diplo> First time they have done it this year
<diplo> Some sort of odour or something they give off from memory ( Could be completely wrong! )
<oimon> although we have had low spider count this  year
<diplo> Since my wife left me I've had 2!
<diplo> When my wife lived with me, maybe 50-100 a year
<diplo> :D
<oimon> correlation vs causation, i like it
<diplo> heh
<oimon> i also find that argent nit is a great homeopathic remedy for allergic conjuctivitis..liberal twitter users hate me for it
<diplo> We had some huge ones, one that was bigger than the light switch it was walking past, it was so heavy/big that when it hit the floor because it was so heavy it made a huge *thud*
 * oimon pukes a bit
<diplo> I don't like spiders but not to worried, but when she screamed with that one i thought not again, but when i got downstairs i was actually taken aback by it's size
<diplo> my normal pint glass catching tool wasn't big enough
<diplo> Had to get a pyrex bowl
<diplo> Got some photos somewhere, I was proud!
<diplo> :P
<Gary> i'd have run away
<Gary> sold the house or something
<diplo> It was close!
<Gary> sur eit was a spider and not a small dog with mutant legs?
<diplo> I do reckon some of the spider issues are down to me keeping the house a lot tidier and cooler now
 * diplo looks for photo a mo
<oimon> i'd have charged rent
<DJones> diplo: Camel Spider -> http://www.camelspiders.net/large-camel-spider.jpg I'd be tempted to move house
<nucru> hello out there. have anyone experience in Empathy. I want to use it as an IM-client.
<oimon> don't click it
<diplo> http://ubuntuone.com/2JLrfWsIfC0vAePtdjlNkf
<DJones> oimon: "click it" Hit the bugger with large sledgehammer more like :)
<diplo> http://ubuntuone.com/6Uy7bap0Hc2tFB6oPpcNKm
<diplo> not the best photos
<diplo> Got some others at home
<diplo> It was it's leg span, I have a photo somewhere of it and it's legs were above and below the light switch
<seeker> That's evil
<diplo> It gave me the shudders for sure :D
<DJones> Yuch, I'd have reached for the hoover for that
<bigcalm> Thank goodness that photo loaded slowly
<bigcalm> I shall read the scroll back before clicking future links
<Gary> omg
<gord> spiders are cute :P
<Gary> only when flat
<bigcalm> Only when I can't see them
<gord> http://socuteurl.com/bluefairycat especially cute
<bigcalm> Yeah, think I'll ignore here for a while and get back to work
<diplo> I've never killed a spider
<oimon> i know an old lady who swallowed a fly
<popey> http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/02/03/anonymous-fbi-pceu-hacking-conference-call/
<popey> ho ho
<brobostigon> my mum is watching ch4, and there is this women on there, with such an accent, that for comic affect, you would add subtitles to her.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Blimey strong stuff from the Met Office: "There is a 100% probability of severe cold weather/icy  conditions/heavy snow between 1000 on Friday and 1000 on Tuesday in  parts of England." http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/uk/coldweatheralert/
<gord> i don't think they know what 100% means
<tonytiger> bigcalm: Have camera, will travel. :) And I am generally available in August 2013 yes.
<bigcalm> Autumn, didn't say August ;)
<bigcalm> tonytiger: that's great though! I shall let Hayley know
<bigcalm> tonytiger: Hayley spotted a typo on your site :|
<tonytiger> Oooh, where?
<bigcalm> http://tonywhitmore.co.uk/weddings/2011/helen-and-jeff
<seeker> tonytiger: How busy are you in November this year?
<bigcalm> tonytiger: Jeffâs family, who own a coach fim
<tonytiger> bigcalm: oops, thanks
<bigcalm> tonytiger: I'll give Hayley the happy news ;)
<tonytiger> bigcalm: fixed the typo, thanks
<tonytiger> seeker: depends on the date, but I'm not fully booked :)
<seeker> 3rd?
<tonytiger> That's clear :)
<seeker> Cool, I'll give the better half a link to your site later
<tonytiger> seeker: nice one, thanks :)
<popey> squeeeeeeeee new laptop
<seeker> popey: Cool :)
<gord> popey, you are officially welcome into the club of awesome people who own awesome laptops :)
<popey> \o/
<popey> oh golly this has sparkles
<gord> sparkles?
<popey> the lid sparkles
<popey> like it has glitter embedded in it
<gord> oh right yes
<gord> its pretty
<seeker> Is it pink?
<Myrtti> pink mentioned
<seeker> With ponies?
<seeker> O.o
<gord> i refuse to believe that is a script, Myrtti is just that fast
<Myrtti> it was indeed typed 100% there on the spot by me.
<popey> i havent even switched it on yet
<popey> i am just looking at it
<popey> need an iso
<seeker> She is staff, she has special powers now
<gord> its the prettiest of all the thinkpads
<bigcalm> Hehe
<gord> hrm firefox 10 has a fullscreen api! fantastic! - fullscreen gets removed if you click on another window :(
<ali1234> more fullscreen than what you get if you press f12?
<popey> F11?
<gord> its different than the f11 fullscreen, which just removes the chrome
<gord> its intended for video and the like
<Dave2> but we're talking about firefox not chrome!
 * Dave2 hides a bit.
 * popey waits for snow
 * bigcalm wants snow
 * Dave2 does not want snow.
<Dave2> Don't want to be stuck inside.
 * brobostigon reckons there wont be snow where he lives, until after midday tmrw.
<bigcalm> Forecast for tomorrow, yay
 * gord prints out a fake browser window with "isitsnowingyet.com" as the url, cuts out the content and pastes it on to his window
<ali1234> er, yeah F11... but F11 removes everything except the scroll bars
<ali1234> although admittedly the vertical scrollbar does show up even if there the content all fits on one page
<danfish> pointless but fun http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1329
<ali1234> also, bombing out of fullscreen mode on loss of focus is aping a flash "feature"
<gord> they just both want to jump out of fullscreen if you alt tab
<dwatkins> christel: I saw these and was reminded of the BOSU - http://www.space-hoppers.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=177 ;)
<christel> OMG I MUST BUY A SPACEHOPPER
<popey> we have a space hopper
<seeker> Party at popeys!
<gord> must buy space hopper.. but fill with helium, sail to the moon
<dwatkins> I also considered buying a space hopper, despite having no garden to hop in.
<dwatkins> I could hop to work...
<christel> yes!
<dwatkins> I wonder how well they cope with pavements...
<bigcalm> christel: \o/
<popey> I do have a shovel too :D
<dwatkins> The design on these space hoppers looks a little evil.
<bigcalm> Different product
<bigcalm> Oh, 'on' not 'of'
 * bigcalm goes back to work
<dwatkins> I didn't notice the XXX section, although thankfully the video (which is obviously NSFW on a NSFW site) has been deleted.
<bigcalm> LOL
<bigcalm> Oh my
<dwatkins> I'd almost forgotten that mplayer can play a movie in ASCII, this amuses me.
<christel> helllooo bigcalm
<christel> popey: how do you use a shovel with a space hopper?
<christel> wait, don't tell me -- is this going to be the sequel to extreme ironing?
<christel> extreme shovelling - popey style
<Dave2> Affix to the bottom, jump
<dwatkins> *pop*
<seeker>      If you put a drill on the bottom you have the precursor to a pneumatic drill
<bigcalm> pneumatic is an evil word
<bigcalm> As is mnemonic
<seeker> Why ?
<bigcalm> And knew
<gord> just pronounce the silent letters, it'll make everything easier in the long run
<seeker> bigcalm: You must love 'queue'
<BigRedS> I still get annoyed with Feng Shui. I think that's a word that's completely missed the point of transliteration.
<bigcalm> Who thought it would be a good idea to have silent letters?
<gord> who thought it would be a good idea to have multiple words that are spelt precisely the same but have completely different meanings
<gord> but pronounced differently
<bigcalm> Close lead
<ali1234> wow anonymous have been busy today
<aquarius> czajkowski, who knows about the forums?
<zleap> ali1234, what they been up to ?
<aquarius> or anyone else... who do I talk to about ubuntuforums stuff
<aquarius> ?
<shauno> I heard their confcall thing covered on the world service.  was a rather bizarre mix of shortwave vs interwebs
<zleap> not sure,  try AlanBell or popey they may know who to chat to,
<zleap> Brewtarget - beer calculator, ubuntu contributers think of everything :D
<popey> aquarius: join #ubuntu-community-team
<MartijnVdS> Whee. Snow -> no more trains
<zleap> MartijnVdS, i wonder if they have that issue in India where they are using old steam trains and track etc built over 100 years ago
<ali1234> how often does it snow in india?
<zleap> it may snow on higher ground
<ali1234> also remember last year when it was really cold in jan but it still turned out to be warmer on average?
<ali1234> and it snowed loads and everyone said "oh it's just a one off"
<ali1234> hey, do you really need all of wordpress to run isitsnowingyet.com?
<zleap> yeah conditions have to be just right for snow,    local rugby ground is frozen,  so games are off at home tomorrow,  I am down in Penryn :(
<zleap> well its fine, but will probably be cold, however saying that,  i think the forcast is 8 c tomorrow
<ali1234> 8c or -8c?
<zleap> +8c
<ali1234> you're lucky
<zleap> i guess they will call the club or the fixture secretary if the game is off
<ali1234> we've got min -9, mean -2, max 2
<ali1234> and 5cm of snow
<ali1234> (forecasted)
<ali1234> it hasn't snowed yet but you wouldn't know because there is an inch of hard front on everything
<ali1234> *frost
<ali1234> yesterday i had to put the heating on for the first time this year
<zleap> ow
<shauno> also almost want to do the "uphill both ways in the snow" rant here.  I've cycled in -40.  was only notable because no-one else showed up for work bceause their gas tanks weren't entirely liquid that morning.
<zleap> lol
<ali1234> you had a bike? you're LUCKY
<ali1234> no but seriously though, 8 degrees is the point where i have to open windows to let out the heat from the computers :)
<zleap> ll
<zleap> lol
<ali1234> i'm considering turning off the heating and just putting on a jumper and some socks, because it seems like a waste of money to sit here in just a t shirt when it's -2 outside
<zleap> just a t-shirt sounds cold
<shauno> that's hw I handle my bills.  heating is to save the plumbing; it's not for comfort
<ali1234> yeah that's the thing... it's like 26 degrees in here
<hamitron> :-o
<zleap> yeah my computer office is like 20c
<hamitron> 14 C in here, and that is fine
<shauno> and you're complaining about the cold :/
<popey> socks!
<popey> outrage!
<hamitron> popey, means no nibbling them nails I suppose ;)
<zleap> eww
<popey> haha
<popey> </rms>
<hamitron> haha
 * zleap hopes its a u buntu t-shirt ur wearing
<shauno> easiest way to handle winter is just to turn your computer around, so the back is blowing at your feet.  sorted.
<zleap> I did have a Microsoft one at one time, got sent it for registering home essentials 98
<hamitron> sheep skin rug ftw
<shauno> I'm not quite northern enough to go slaughter something to keep me warm :p
<hamitron> I didn't, grandad did ;/
<zleap> shauno, that would be the gentoo version,  for the ubuntu version you get the sheep skin ready prepared :D
<popey> i was wearing a Red Hat hat during meetings today
<hamitron> and ubuntu has a new colour every 6 months, so you gotta change :/
<popey> how dare they iterate
<zleap> it does,  the logo colour is the same as it was last 2 release
<hamitron> oh, my mistake
<hamitron> it has done at least
<hamitron> :)
<OmNomDePlume> Logo colour is important.
<zleap> yeah
<hamitron> guess times are tough atm, can't change too often
<gordonjcp> oh, this is annoying
<zleap> well my diy stickers worked quite well
<gordonjcp> how the hell do you just download a package from the android marketplace?
<OmNomDePlume> YOU CANNOT
<shauno> as an iphone user, I assume it's something to do with curl, ssh, and the adk
<shauno> like taking screenshots :)
<diplo> Evening all
 * zleap is installing 0 AD
<zleap> also installed the prper xchat client now not the gnome front end one,  that seems ok for new users  but for those of us who need to enter custom settings not as useful]
<zleap> hi diplo
<diplo> yeah i never bother with the gnome one
<zleap> i didn't realise at first itwas a cut down interface,  been on for months so decided as I am gonna be here quite often,  put the proper one on
<zleap> I also need to upgrade my netbook, so should I wipe my 2gb flash drive and make a 11.10 boot disk,  or download the latest build of 12.04 and use that instead
<zleap> given 12.04 is pretty stable
<popey> aquarius: re: forums, join #ubuntu-community-team
<gordonjcp> hmm
<gordonjcp> well it appears that if you have an android tablet that doesn't have google android marketplace, you cannot get a PDF reader onto it
<popey> there are other stores
<popey> and you can probably get the apk on a pc and then "sideload" it
<popey> I _hate_ that phrase
<gordonjcp> that's what I've been trying to do
<gordonjcp> seems that every other pdf reader is not on whatever half-assed idea of an app store this Archos tablet has
<popey> bummer
<gordonjcp> oh this is interesting
<gordonjcp> you *can* get an apk for the adobe one, from adobe
<gordonjcp> it's incredibly buried
<popey> haha
<popey> thats unexpected, and good
 * BigRedS is finally on the train to fosdem
 * MartijnVdS might drop by on Sunday
<BigRedS> You're that local?
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: 2 hour drive
<bigcalm> gordonjcp: kindle app can display pdfs
<gordonjcp> bigcalm: oooh, never thought of that
<bigcalm> It's what I use on my Xoom to read tech documents while coding
<bigcalm> You could email the pdf to your kindle email address or just open it in the app
<Azelphur> Anyone know a place you can get rather cheap PCs with not too much markup? I want to avoid the hassle of building
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: your local computer store?
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: since when have brick&mortar stores and "cheap" belonged int he same sentence? o.O
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: Most web stores have physical presence here
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: also, we have tweakers.net/pricewatch in .nl
<Azelphur> not here lol
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: set something like that up :)
<Azelphur> perhaps http://www.ebuyer.com/337174-zoostorm-desktop-pc-7873-1051 o.O
<Azelphur> looks like an alright base for the price, stick a GPU in there and it'd game ok if required too
<gordonjcp> Azelphur: woah
<Azelphur> yea, seems quite nice, reviews are good too
<gordonjcp> probably quicker than the P4 3GHz I'm currently on...
<Azelphur> facebook comments say it's got a 400W PSU and a PCIe x16 slot
<Azelphur> so should be able to slap a GPU in there if required, looks good
 * AlanBell likes sata hotplugging
<AlanBell> upgrading the data disk in my home server to 3TB of spinning rust, just unmounted and unplugged the old one while the computer is still on, put it in another pc and now cloning the drive to the new one
<MartijnVdS> \o/ sata hotplugging
<popey> Evening all
<zleap> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-04
<popey> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o
<Gary> guten morgan
<diplo> Morning all
 * MartijnVdS goes for a walk. Through the snow. With a camera.
<diplo> nice, a lot of snow MartijnVdS ?
<MartijnVdS> yes, and -15
<diplo> :(
<diplo> -7 here this morning
<MartijnVdS> some parts of .nl broke records with -23
<diplo> Supposedly snow later this afternoon
<diplo> I'd like to come back there at some point, the guy we rent our offices are from the netherlands
<diplo> is from*
<kvarley> I have setup apache and chowned the directory to the www-data user. Is there a way I can give my own user account the same permissions as www-data? So I can edit without having to so "sudo su www-data"
<shauno> didn't realise it was a timed quiz.  I was trying to figure out how to explain why I don't let www-data write to /srv/www
<ali1234> shauno: how does apache write to log files that are 755 root/root?
<shauno> kvarley, doesn't directly answer what you're trying to do, but www-data doesn't need to own the path.  it just needs to be able to read it.  the less www-data can write to, the less impact you have from things like the timthumb vuln in wordpress
<shauno> ali1234, it's lauched as root:root and pivots permissions to those in the config.  so it just needs to open the files for writing before it does that
<ali1234> ah ok
<ali1234> nothing to worry about then
<shauno> or maybe leaves a thread around that's owned by root, not sure.  my main worry is what rights it executes php with
<shauno> ah, yeah, mine has one thread running as root, and 5 workers running as www-data
<kvarley> shauno: Mine needs to be able to write and stuff because it's running a cms
<shauno> I'm sure there's more than one way to skin it, but for cache folders I have soneil:www-data, and make them group-writable
<shauno> or you could add yourself to the www-data group and do something similar the other way around too, I guess
<shauno> I think if you need more than one user to write to the same thing, the sensible answer is going to involve groups regardless of how much paranoia you aproach it with :)
<AlanBell> my sata hotplug plan isn't going to plan
<AlanBell> is there a way to poke the kernel and get it to rescan devices?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ah
<AlanBell> hi TheOpenSourcerer, I have 3TB of spinning rust for you
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks. Are you in most of the day? Will probably be going to Sainsbury's later.
<AlanBell> yeah, should be in
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK.
 * AlanBell has already been to Sainsbury's
 * TheOpenSourcerer has only just got up!
<AlanBell> I think a reboot is in order
<AlanBell> see you on the other side o/
<danfish> morning
<danfish> ready for the rubgy TheOpenSourcerer?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Heh danfish
<TheOpenSourcerer> Getting there...
<TheOpenSourcerer> Change of hostelry for the evening coz the landlord at my local is a total Â£$%^&*(()
<danfish> oops - what did he do?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Didn't make the TV work.
<danfish> they need to invent eccletricity in your parts first :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> And didn't tell us either. Luckily at about 10:50 last night I asked him if he was all set for tomorrow. Then he mentioned that the TV wasn't working. Hasn't been for sometime apparently.
<TheOpenSourcerer> )(*&^%$%Â£"Â£$%
<danfish> not the best commercial decision
 * danfish is opening a few bottles of home made cider for the game
<TheOpenSourcerer> Right, need to plan the food for the week. (This is my job according to my dear wife. But she does do all the ironing in return).
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: F&C, McD, BK, ...
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<danfish> spam, spam, spam, spam, spam
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> \o MartijnVdS
 * MartijnVdS is processing pictures from a snowy walk
<brobostigon> :)
<czajkowski> aquarius: ping
<AlanBell> how is fosdem?
 * MartijnVdS keeps losing the 'reload' button in ff
<MartijnVdS> it's on the wrong side of the address bar!
<czajkowski> well .......my head a is a little tender
<AlanBell> :)
<aquarius> czajkowski, pong
<czajkowski> aquarius: that was before I saw your message and worked out what you wanted done
<czajkowski> ROFLOL someone went to the wrong campus not ULB where fosdem is on
<popey> "someone" we know?
<czajkowski> yup
<czajkowski> hence saying it in here and not surrey :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: see you shortly?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: sure
<TheOpenSourcerer> ok
<brobostigon> ok, we are going to get snow here, starting somewhere between 3pm and 6pm, and then stopping somewhere between midnight and 3am.
<czajkowski> it's SNOWING over here
<czajkowski> causing massive delays
<brobostigon> i can imagine.
<brobostigon> where my brother lives up in northern germany, he has had bad weather for weeks.
<brobostigon> so i might have to have my trip into town abit earlier.
<Guest53691> guest?
<Guest53691> something has gone wrong in the matrix...
<brobostigon> well, i cant let the snow, not let me go to the pub, and meetup with friends though can i.
<MartijnVdS> Snow is good for you! :)
<brobostigon> why ?
<MartijnVdS> Well it's cold. Good for muscles :)
<brobostigon> ok.
<brobostigon> my maybe not the best, for my osteoporosis.
<MartijnVdS> true
 * brobostigon has insulated underwear, for such an occasion.
<MartijnVdS> For those extra-cold beers ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/sets/72157629167894627/show
<brobostigon> :)
<MartijnVdS> heh.. someone about learning the terminal: http://i.imgur.com/SPUdX.jpg
<czajkowski> aquarius: I just snorted in the middle of LO talk, reading your blog
<czajkowski> *hugs*
<aquarius> am still cold.
<aquarius> I am worried I may never be properly warm ever again.
<czajkowski> aquarius: bubbly bath
<occupy64k> Laptops produce a lot of heat
<czajkowski> at least you had cigs
<czajkowski> could you imagine how more pissed off youd be with no cigs
<occupy64k> What you need is the underside of a laptop connected to a system of popes containing water which are circulated around your jumper
<occupy64k> or pipes
<occupy64k> popes would be less effective
<gordonjcp> I don't want a pope on my lap
<occupy64k> :-)
<MartijnVdS> aww, poor aquarius.
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: Try taking a long hot shower and/or bath
<gordonjcp> aquarius: massive amounts of capsaicin
<gordonjcp> aquarius: you need a curry
<MartijnVdS> AD a curry.
<MartijnVdS> AND*
<gordonjcp> lentil soup
<aquarius> czajkowski, if I hadn't had cigarettes I think I would have actually frozen
<czajkowski> I think soo too
<aquarius> shower. That sounds like a good idea.
<czajkowski> aquarius: sounds rather shite night
<czajkowski> also was there any other keys on the bunch
<aquarius> nope, just the front door key, which is presumably why I lost it; it was easy for it to fall out of my pocket
<gordonjcp> aquarius: did you find the key, or did you just break in?
<aquarius> neither.
<aquarius> Waited up until 9am and then got the spare from the estate agent.
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: you need to read the entire blog post.
 * AlanBell sends aquarius a nice warm video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4ij8z8yqzo
<czajkowski> my key is on the Ubuntu lanyard
<czajkowski> handy when at the bottom of my back
<AlanBell> s/back/pack/ I suspect
<AlanBell> though I might be wrong
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: ironic that his domain name is "kryogenix.org"
<MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Eww.?
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp++
<gordonjcp> hm
<aquarius> gordonjcp, heh, I didn't even think of that
<popey> czajkowski: what talk are you in?
<gordonjcp> my landlord has a spare key
<czajkowski> H1039
<czajkowski> Libreoffice
<gordonjcp> fortunately he lives 200m further up the farm track, not sure how happy he'd be about me knocking on his door at 4am though
<czajkowski> Easy hacks
<aquarius> gordonjcp, yeah. The estate agent has a spare key, and for total emergencies my mum and dad do (although they're normally 120 miles away, and are currently in Ireland anyway)
<gordonjcp> heh
<gordonjcp> I think if I got locked out I'd just sit in the car
<aquarius> gordonjcp, which is exactly what I'd have done if I had my car key
<aquarius> but it was in the house
<gordonjcp> even if it's locked it's not hard to get it open and start the engine
<gordonjcp> since it has a plug under the bonnet that appears to be entirely for being easy to hotwire
<aquarius> ahem. Breaking into my own car and then hotwiring it in the street is a jolly easy way to get arrested, even ignoring the fact that I have no idea how to do that anyway
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: at least, that's what the junkie you bought it from said? :P
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: there's a big diagnostic connector down beside the battery, with pins for locking and unlocking the doors, a pin for enabling the ignition, and a jumper that you disconnect to turn the starter
<gordonjcp> also, I live well away from the main road so no real chance of being done for driving under the influence
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Stuart Langridge] It's cold outside - http://www.kryogenix.org/days/2012/02/04/it-s-cold-outside
<gordonjcp> aquarius: anyway, I'm glad you got it sorted and you didn't freeze to death
<aquarius> appreciated
<aquarius> I am, too
<gordonjcp> aquarius: I hope you didn't have your address on the keyring
<aquarius> gordonjcp, nope, for exactly this reason. Just a key.
<gordonjcp> the twat that runs the company I work for insists on having keyrings with the company name, logo and address on all the vehicle keys
<Pendulum> gordonjcp: better their address than your address?
<gordonjcp> great when your keyring also includes keys for the workshop and several fairly secure sites
<MartijnVdS> ah yes, this is why they don't print our company name on our access badges
<Pendulum> aquarius: we gave a spare key to one of our neighbors. While I'm sure they wouldn't be thrilled if we woke them up in the middle of the night, they'd do it and would be quite nice about it.
<Pendulum> (but that does depend on having neighbors you get along with)
<aquarius> Pendulum, yeah, I did that. Then I took it back off them again to give it to the estate agent...
<aquarius> hindsight is, as usual, 20/20
<Lcawte> Grrr, I've tried like a hundred and one tutorials, and still nothing, does anyone have a link to a guide that lets me have local & virtual mailboxes?
<Pendulum> aquarius: also, bring a coat to the pub next time :P
<aquarius> Pendulum, well... yes. :)
<aquarius> but then I'd have to wear it or carry it all night *in* the pub, which is why I didn't
<penguin42> it's Penguin weather out there
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: see my Flickr link from earlier :)
<penguin42> nice
<jutnux> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> \o jutnux
<AlanBell> we have giraffe bread for lunch
<TheOpenSourcerer> Ewww.
<penguin42> AlanBell: You're absolutely sure it wasn't Tiger bread?
<czajkowski> waitinh on alison randall to give her talk
<mattt> woot, 6nations starts today
<gordonjcp> I got some of that
<gordonjcp> disappointed, didn't appear to have any giraffe in it at all
<AlanBell> penguin42: I checked carefully, looks nothing like a tiger
<mattt> are any of these fosdem streams working?
<mattt> ah, got one
<TheOpenSourcerer> Cream of Chicken or Oxtail Soup for lunch?
<czajkowski> chicken
<czajkowski> some crusty fresh rolls
<AlanBell> both good
<popey> oooo, yes
<popey> i have rolls and soup
<popey> great plan
<AlanBell> how were the eggs?
 * TheOpenSourcerer goes off to kill a chicken and smother it in cream then... (Or just open a tin)
<czajkowski> I had a veggie burger
<czajkowski> I feel cheated!!
<christel> eggs! i love eggs
<djbenny> afternoon
<AlanBell> christel: I took some to the pub for you (wasn't sure if you were coming) but gave them to czajkowski in the end
<christel> oooh
<popey> outrage
<christel> thank you (even if they are now lauras eggs!)
<christel> :D
<popey> AlanBell: my kids had the for tea yesterday
<popey> they loved them and said thank you
<popey> hows the dongle
<popey> (missus)
<AlanBell> my dongle is dangling nicely
<AlanBell> thanks very much for that, it works a treat
<popey> excellent
<popey> I am disappointed that the red 'i' in thinkpad doesn't light up like it does on other lenovo laptops
<popey> the red dot above the i that is
<MartijnVdS> .. like the Apple logo on Apple laptops?
<popey> no, a tiny dot
 * penguin42 drops his desk phone and finds that a plastic moulding has popped off, inside it's labelled 'T2903A WEDGE ABS CAV1'
<penguin42> who would have thought there would be so many wedges
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: well the phone is probably wedge-shaped?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: No, it was a wedge that made it rise up more at the back
<MartijnVdS> What would be the cheapest way to make a temperature, humidity (optional: barometric pressure) sensor with wifi?
<MartijnVdS> Arduino? Wait for RasPi?
<MartijnVdS> Some Arduino clone?
<MartijnVdS> light sensor would also rock
<penguin42> I think the wifi is the bit that makes it harder
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> That part is optional/can be done later/etc.
<MartijnVdS> it being upgradeable to use wifi would be cool though
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: I think there are sensors for everything you want on either i2c or 1-wire and most dev boards will do them
<OmNomDePlume> Hah I got a letter from Virgin "letting me know" that I've been downloading an "unusually large" amount of data recently.
<OmNomDePlume> Ok, I just checked my logs and can kind of see why they sent that letter.
<OmNomDePlume> 673gb transferred in January...
<MartijnVdS> You still have metered internet?
<penguin42> OmNomDePlume: You've not downloaded the whole internet have you?
<MartijnVdS> ISPs in the Netherlands stopped caring about the amount of data you use in 2000 or so
<OmNomDePlume> No, it's unmetered. They just "let you know" for "helpful" reasons.
<OmNomDePlume> I can download whatever I want - I risk being capped to 50% of my speed during peak times i.e. 25Mbit/s between 16:00 and 0:00.
<OmNomDePlume> But I've never been throttled, so I don't know why they sent this letter.
<Pendulum> OmNomDePlume: implied warning that they might check to make sure it was all legal?
<OmNomDePlume> No.
<OmNomDePlume> "it's easy to schedule downloading big files such as movies for after midnight"
<OmNomDePlume> ^from the letter lol
<kvarley> What's a lightweight chat server I can use? I have tried ejabberd and openfire which both use the XMPP protocol and they don't seem to work.
<OmNomDePlume> They obviously mean schedule your torrents for after midnight.
<MartijnVdS> cool.. http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10742
<shauno> that's not a bad idea, really.  it's more under 'being a good neighbour'
<shauno> "This product is controlled for export by the United States. Sending it to other countries may still be possible, but will require additional information prior to shipment."  :(
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Do you often find yourself in the need of geiger counters?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: no, but it's still cool :)
<OmNomDePlume> rofl
<OmNomDePlume> Geiger counters are export controlled?
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: not that I know?
<MartijnVdS> ah by the US
<OmNomDePlume> How retarded.
<OmNomDePlume> It's like controlling exports of petri dishes.
<OmNomDePlume> America is funny sometimes.
<OmNomDePlume> As if Iran couldn't just buy Geiger counters from Russia.
<MartijnVdS> or make them..
<shauno> I'm so glad I'm not iranian.  You know somewhere out there, there's a nerd who looks at things like that, thinks they'd make incredibly nerdy RNGs, and then just sighs
 * penguin42 wonders why - it's not like it's difficult to build a geiger counter is it?
<danfish> MartijnVdS: have a look here - a country man of yours http://jeelabs.org
<danfish> MartijnVdS: sorry - http://jeelabs.com
<occupy64k> Let it snow!
 * kirrus does not want it to snow
<kirrus> I had to deice our air-con exaust pipes way too early this morning :)
<kirrus> s/:)/:(/
<penguin42> occupy64k: It is here
<kirrus> having fun BigRedS?
<BigRedS> kirrus: yeah, having fun staying on a wifi net :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/6817113033/in/photostream/lightbox/
<MartijnVdS> \o/ hugin
<danfish> MartijnVdS: good job - how many pics?
<MartijnVdS> danfish: 4
<MartijnVdS> I have pictures of a tower, 8 pictures high.. but it doesn't like it
<MartijnVdS> too much overlap I think
<danfish> nice - can't make out any seams - you gotta love open source  :)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: also, gotta love the 'M' setting on my camera ;)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: and shooting RAW + batch-processing (identical settings) with rawtherapee
<danfish> we've got a canon g10 - going to look up optimal settings for snow photography for tomorrow
<danfish> (i'm not the best photography person!)
<MartijnVdS> danfish: does that run CHDK? :)
<MartijnVdS> http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/G10
<MartijnVdS> danfish: you can write LUA scripts for that ;)
<danfish> MartijnVdS: wow - never new alternative firmware for my camera
<czajkowski> Boo
<danfish> czajkowski: hoh
<MartijnVdS> danfish: it's not sticky either -- remove battery -> stock firmware back
<MartijnVdS> danfish: great for not violating warranty ;)
<danfish> czajkowski: how's fosdem and do you need a rugby update service?
<czajkowski> I do
<czajkowski> i got france italy
<danfish> MartijnVdS:something I've always worried about with my android phone
<czajkowski> any other games on ?
<MartijnVdS> czajkowski: scotland v england is coming up
<danfish> czajkowski: kids not letting me watch normal Tv at the moment, but I can stream you cars 2 ;)
<hamitron> you need to educate them and show who's boss ;)
<czajkowski> danfish: you need to get them watching the the rugby
<MartijnVdS> "I pay the license fee. I get to say what's on TV"
<hamitron> too right
<hamitron> :)
<danfish> czajkowski: they will at 1730!
<hamitron> I suppose France and Italy don't really matter
 * hamitron sighs
<danfish> hamitron: why the sigh?
<hamitron> france getting the 3 points, puts them over 7 ahead
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> oh well
<hamitron> oh ffs
<hamitron> snow is breaking tv signal
<MartijnVdS> so you get.. snow?
<hamitron> at least this digital tv gets a nice clear black screen with a "no signal" message
<hamitron> snowing now
<hamitron> little earlier than forecast
<hamitron> hope it settles
<hamitron> :)
<hamitron> 4 inches is a nice amount
<danfish> hamitron: wherer are you?
<hamitron> East Yorkshire
<directhex> mooooo
<AlanBell> light sprinkling of snow happening here
 * MartijnVdS gets the tape with christmas music
<AlanBell> daubers: you were doing a support guide or something along those lines a while back, did anything come of that?
<bigcalm> Unhappy weather here. It's raining and it's -2C. So more ice than snow
<ali1234> the snow has set in proper here
<popey> none here GU14 0/10 #uksnow
<bigcalm> popey: I bet you were hoping to be snowed in so that you could spend the entire weekend on your new laptop
<popey> yes
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://yfrog.com/es8ropbj
<AlanBell> what is that then czajkowski?
<czajkowski> AlanBell: http://wikiotics.org/en/main_page
<AlanBell> ah, a wiki for cunning linguists
<czajkowski> yup
<s-fox> Hello everyone :)
<dogmatic69> o/
<s-fox> How's everyone? Anyone watching the rugby?
<diplo> Lots of snow in BA14
<diplo> 6-7/10
<Azelphur> -6/-11 here, but no snow xD
<shauno> 8Âº here.  no snow, no sun, just clouds.  winter in ireland looks a lot like summer in ireland :)
<penguin42> shauno: Meh!
<penguin42> shauno: Give us our warm air back!
<shauno> oh you don't want that
 * penguin42 does
<Azelphur> penguin42: don't take irelands air, it's full of alcohol smell
<shauno> warm air that's been chilling out over the atlantic.  if you send it to a sub-zero landmass, insta-snow
<shauno> Azelphur: you say that like it's a bad thing?
<penguin42> shauno: We've already got the snow
<Azelphur> shauno: haha
<MartijnVdS> haha.. comedy sketch show in (in Dutch) -- "What if.."
<MartijnVdS> - what if bakers were paranoid
<brobostigon> meep
<MartijnVdS> "What if numbers didn't exist"
<MartijnVdS> "What if everyone was a civil servant"
<MartijnVdS> etc.
<OmNomDePlume> "Mario Balotell is performing magic tricks in one of the executive boxes as Fulham prepare to take a corner. I'm not making this up, honest."
<OmNomDePlume> Balotelli is a legend.
<OmNomDePlume> MartijnVdS: like this http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/the-best-of-conspiracy-keanu
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: A bit. But acted out :)
<MartijnVdS> "What if colour-deafness existed"
<ali1234> python-gamin is broken :(
<AlanBell> !info npm precise
<lubotu3> npm (source: npm): package manager for nodejs. In component universe, is extra. Version 0.2.19-1 (precise), package size 134 kB, installed size 804 kB
<AlanBell> !info npm unstable
<lubotu3> npm (source: npm): package manager for nodejs. In component main, is extra. Version 0.2.19-1 (unstable), package size 140 kB, installed size 804 kB
<brobostigon> whats peoples sky tv reception like, in north oxforshire,?. or is it my sky box?
<awilkins> Whee, XChat for Windows is funky. In the bad smell sense.
<OmNomDePlume> Just got a letter from Usain Bolt telling me he's upgrading my broadband from 50 to 120Mbit, for free.
<awilkins> The main window seems to be using some kind of chunkyvision bitmap font
<awilkins> Yeah, I'm waiting on mine that says he's upgrading me to 60 MBit/s
<OmNomDePlume> "July onwards" eugh
<OmNomDePlume> So like six months.
<awilkins> April - March
<OmNomDePlume> http://doublespeed.virginmedia.com/?buspart=DoubleSpeeds_Email_1
<awilkins> I'm in one of the first areas of the UK to get cable modem networks, they always use us as guinea pigs for new features
<awilkins> It's such a hardship
<DJones> OmNomDePlume: I had a letter from virgin yesterday offering me 50Mb broadband, it'd be good if I was in a cabled area
<OmNomDePlume> You're in Hull, eh?
<OmNomDePlume> Also, Richard Branson has a terrible tan.
<DJones> No, just no cable near our house
<OmNomDePlume> That's awful.
<OmNomDePlume> ADSL is an abortion.
<OmNomDePlume> You're lucky if you get half the advertised rate.
<OmNomDePlume> 50.83Mbit/s @ speedtest. This is good.
 * AlanBell suggests OmNomDePlume's metaphor is somewhat inappropriate
<OmNomDePlume> Virgin's customer support is terrible, though.
<OmNomDePlume> Sorry AlanBell.
<awilkins> Yes, they've been mis-spelling my name as "Andrew" for some years now
<awilkins> Even after they originally had it right
<gordonjcp> what's it supposed to be?
<awilkins> Adrian
<penguin42> awilkins: Have you thought about changing your name? It might be easier
<awilkins> It doesn't bother me ; they only think of me as a direct debit number anyway. I get what I want from them - a bunch of numbers delivered down a copper wire - so really, we only care about numbers.
<awilkins> And I get to have Baldur's Gate II in 13 minutes, so they are doing their bit.
<awilkins> If they were printing business cards for me, I might be a little miffed
<penguin42> awilkins: It must get interesting when they ask for your full name and credit card info etc
<awilkins> Account number. And I don't pay on CC ; I pay on direct debit
<awilkins> I know the password, so what do they care..
<awilkins> Whoa ; a robot system that uses humans as the robot arm
<awilkins> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWNuaPE4DTc
<awilkins> Our robot overlords (http://marshallbrain.com/manna1.htm) are upon us
<dwatkins> handy
<dwatkins> awilkins: I assume you've seen this exoskeleton the US military has made: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qium3iCQZ10
<dwatkins> well, Raytheon made it, I guess the US military paid for it.
<awilkins> dwatkins, I've seen that ; I think the point is more that that is a human directing a robot - the picking system in the other video is a robot directing a human
<awilkins> (to pickthings off the back of some of it's subunits, sure)
<AlanBell> wonder if I can get that working with openerp
<awilkins> You're essentially a squishy vision processor and robot arm
 * awilkins wonders if OpenERP has applicability to the healthcare arena
<AlanBell> it does
<AlanBell> there is a dentistry module that one of the UK partners is working on
<awilkins> With all the comments about the NHS needing streamlining recently, I have been wondering if the NHS IT programme (wfor whom I work) should concentrate on eliminating middle management rather than delivering EHR systems
<AlanBell> some bit of the NHS in Lincolnshire is looking at it I believe
 * brobostigon wishes he had never learnt the drums, he is getting more complaints from his dad, than praise, even if just tapping his hand son his legs, :'(
<brobostigon> hands on*
<dwatkins> awilkins: ah yes, taking advantage of our pattern recognition skills
<dwatkins> brobostigon: I get that too, used to find myself tapping on the desk and being stared at by my colleague next to me :)
<brobostigon> and i did it, because i enjoyed it, this doesnt make it enjoyable.
<AlanBell> awilkins: http://medical.sourceforge.net/ this is an openERP fork
<brobostigon> dwatkins: in this case, not just being stared at, but actually being bluntly told to stop, and given grim face.
<dwatkins> oh bah, brobostigon
<awilkins> I have some ideas about EHR data entry and presentation interfaces that stem from Wave
<dwatkins> I tend to put loud drum & bass on and wear large headphones to counteract the urge to drum on the desk, so long as I have something to type on I'm ok ;)
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i dont understand, "oh bah" ?
<brobostigon> dwatkins: i play piper, to conteract sometimes, and sometimes feels even more want to play to it.
<brobostigon> piper at the gates of dawn*
<dwatkins> brobostigon: "oh bah" as in "that's unfortunate"
<brobostigon> dwatkins: ah, i see.
<matti> brobostigon: ;]
<brobostigon> matti: evening  :)
<matti> Hi.
<matti> ;]
<brobostigon> hi
<matti> WHat's up?;]
<brobostigon> matti: you name it, read above. not good, very frustrating.
<brobostigon> matti: and you?
<matti> Tired.
<matti> ;/
 * brobostigon plays pink floyd loud in his headphones, with the bass turned up.
<brobostigon> matti: can i send you my cv, for that job?
<matti> Sure.
<matti> I completely forgot about it.
<matti> Sorry.
<mustafaerhan> hello there.
<mustafaerhan> looking for suggestions for ubuntu linux
<mustafaerhan> softwares tweaks themes etc. all helps are welcome.
<Azelphur> hamitron: did you break the internet again
<hamitron> me break? it has been broken for how many years? :/
<Azelphur> XD
<jacobw> \o/ hustle
<jacobw> hallo czajkowski
#ubuntu-uk 2012-02-05
<jacobw> !ping
<lubotu3> another contentless ping... sigh...
<awilkins> !ping is an interesting thing. A ringadingding.
<Azelphur> Is there any way to move the notification windows to somewhere a bit more obvious?
<Azelphur> on my machine they open in the far corner of my far right display so I usually don't notice em
<penguin42> I think there used to be an option to move which corner they occurred in, but it got removed at some point
<Azelphur> :<
<penguin42> might still be buried in the gnome config stuff
<DJones> Azelphur: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/configurable-notifyosd-notifications.html PPA so you take your chance, its not something I've tried
<Azelphur> looks fun :)
<mthatcher> Hi all
<danfish> ahoy hoy saveloys!
<TheOpenSourcerer> hullo danfish
<AlanBell> morning all
<TheOpenSourcerer> Surprised at the result in Murrayfield yesterday
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning AlanBell
<danfish> TheOpenSourcerer: a good result - hard worked for
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: What capacity does your 3TB drive show when you do a df -h?
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: Yes.
<danfish> AlanBell TheOpenSourcerer - how much snow in the stix?
<AlanBell> TheOpenSourcerer: I couldn't do a single partition
<TheOpenSourcerer> danfish: We have about 2 - 3" I reckon.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Been talking to a customer in caterham, he reckons he has 8-9"
<AlanBell> I have partitions of 1.7T and 1.1T
<TheOpenSourcerer> AlanBell: I have one partition of 2.0TB
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-(
<AlanBell> erk
<AlanBell> so is the rest unpartitioned space?
<TheOpenSourcerer> fdisk did say it was a 3TB drive.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nope.
<AlanBell> it looked like 2.7TB in gparted, but it wouldn't let me do one big partition because of partition table limits
<buzz_> AlanBell, use gpt
<buzz_> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUID_Partition_Table
<TheOpenSourcerer> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829816/
<buzz_> The MBR partition table restricts partition sizes to a maximum of 2.19 terabytes (2.19 Ã 1012 bytes) or almost exactly 2 TiB (2,199,023,255,040 bytes or 4,294,967,295 (232â1) sectors Ã 512 (29) bytes per sector).[2]. GPT supports partition sizes up to 9.3 zettabytes or 8 ZiBâ512 bytes (9,444,732,965,739,290,426,880 bytes or 18,446,744,073,709,551,615 (264â1) sectors Ã 512 (29) bytes per sector).
<buzz_> 9.3 zettabytes should be enough for you
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<directhex> you need GPT for drives over 2T. full stop
<directhex> and you need EFI to boot from GPT
<TheOpenSourcerer> ok. Helpful. Thanks.
<AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/829818/
<buzz_> directhex, you can boot from gpt without efi..Many Internet sources, particularly discussion groups, include assertions that it's impossible to boot a GPT disk on a BIOS computer. This is nonsenseâor at least, it's true only of certain OSes.
<buzz_> http://www.rodsbooks.com/gdisk/booting.html
<AlanBell> and MBR works fine if you are cool with partitioning it (which I was)
<directhex> you can cross your fingers and pray in hybrid mbr situations, sure. i did the same thing back in the oldern days to boot from a 250G drive in a 128G-maximum-drive-size system
<buzz_> directhex, afair that is only needed for windows and some other oses
<buzz_> linux doesnt need a hyprid-mbr
<buzz_> hybrid-mbr
 * buzz_ upgrades joggler images to 3.2.4 kernel
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks - That's better. I now have a 2.8TB xfs partition.
<MartijnVdS> xfs, does that still die if you lose power?
<MartijnVdS> as in, unrecoverable
<buzz_> it never did die..
<MartijnVdS> buzz_: it got in a twisted state though
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Not for me no. Been suing it for years with no problems.
<TheOpenSourcerer> s\using
<TheOpenSourcerer> ;-)
<buzz_> i rememerb the structure was fine. only some data could be lost.
<czajkowski> alanbell ping
<MartijnVdS> buzz_: oh that's fine then, only some dataloss ;)
<MartijnVdS> buzz_: it's not like it's a file system :P
<TheOpenSourcerer> So maybe ext3 then...
<buzz_> anyway. xfs is probably the best fs currently for linux (imho). even though i use ext4
<buzz_> MartijnVdS, depends how you look at it. it used to blank half written files or something i forget the details
 * MartijnVdS uses ext4 and cifs (nfs to NAS = too much mucking about with uids)
<buzz_> i sometimes wish i had used xfs rather than ext4 on my raid5, due to performance of ext4 when you get into the 100s of millions of files etc heh
<MartijnVdS> buzz_: you can set alignment when creating the ext4 fs
<buzz_> MartijnVdS, i am aware thanks :)
<MartijnVdS> also.. 100s of millions?
<buzz_> yes
<MartijnVdS> are you running a usenet server or something? :)
<buzz_> backups with long histories
<MartijnVdS> Ah, that also works :)
<buzz_> the ext4 performance is to do with operations on lots of files, not the alignment etc.
<buzz_> its just the fs design i guess.. anyway. in 2025 btrfs might work
<Myrtti> gord: OMG borrowers from ghibli?!?!
<buzz_> Inode count:              366288896 - i assume that correlates somewhat with the number of files (and dirs)
<AlanBell> hi czajkowski
<directhex> Myrtti, ghibli likes using western stories as source material. howl's moving castle is welsh
<Myrtti> directhex: I know, I just didn't know they had done one about borrowers
<Myrtti> directhex: which was released in Japan in July 2010, only now coming to theatres in US
<directhex> MartijnVdS, xfs worked on the attitude that a zeroed file is less harmful than a corrupt file, as you'll detect & replace a zeroed file
<directhex> main xfs annoyance IME is no shrink capability. only expand
<MartijnVdS> directhex: zeroed = corrupted, imo :)
<buzz_> id rather a zero file than a half intact file personally
<buzz_> as directhex said. and you can detect and pull a replacement from your backup
<MartijnVdS> buzz_: corrupt < zeroes < *
<mattt> morning morning
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Gareth France] Tottenham Court Road 4th/Bristol 5th January 2012 - http://cliftonts.co.uk/cubuntu/?p=78
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<danfish> going outside to make a snow person of indeterminable sex and race ;)
<brobostigon> :
<brobostigon> :)
<AlanBell> http://streams.fosdem.org/fosdem/h1301.webm.m3u
<AlanBell> live now on the czajkowski channel
<popey> :D
 * popey boggles at the proposed mageia structure
 * AlanBell has never heard of mageia before
<AlanBell> a mandriva fork
<ali1234> why they doing that?
<ali1234> oh it has gnome 2
<buzz_> the free space issues that seemed to be back on btrfs on 3.1.x seem to be sorted on 3.2.x cool
<buzz_> so maybe btrfs ready earlier than i thuogh. maybe just 5 more years or so
<buzz_> :)
<ali1234> i still wouldn't touch it with a pointy stick
<buzz_> can be handy though.. like on me joggler images
<directhex> popey, ?
<buzz_> slow usb sticks + btrfs with compression = faster
<buzz_> and more free space
<popey> they have a governance council which has one representative from every single team
<ali1234> well how many teams are there?
<popey> it's not fully setup yet by the look of it
<ali1234> it seems better than having a council which has 4 guys youve never heard of
<ali1234> whih is what meego had
<ali1234> until 2 of them quit
<popey> stream broke AlanBell ?
<AlanBell> popey: it wasn't me
<AlanBell> but yeah, it stopped
<gordonjcp> oh, there goes the weapon of mouse destruction
<gordonjcp> got another one
<gordonjcp> I thought mice hibernated in the winter?
 * MartijnVdS looks at his mouse
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: mine isn't hibernating
<gordonjcp> neither is this one any more
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: Logitech? ;)
<gordonjcp> no, brown and furry ;-)
<gord> Myrtti, its really really good :)
<MartijnVdS> ah, that kind of mouse :)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: and now about 3 inches wide and 1/4" thick
<gordonjcp> I don't know what she does to them
<gordonjcp> drives over them with a very small cat-sized tractor or something
<MartijnVdS> gordonjcp: you have no idea how cats work do you? ;)
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm coming to that conclusion
<gordonjcp> MartijnVdS: I'm convinced she fires up the studio in the small hours of the morning
<gordonjcp> occasionally I wake up hearing sounds in the house
<gordonjcp> and I think "there is nothing in my house that makes a noise like that..."
<gordonjcp> "... except the sampler...?"
<OmNomDePlume> Has anybody's nuts frozen off yet?
<OmNomDePlume> It's like -10 in some places.
 * Myrtti giggles
<MartijnVdS> OmNomDePlume: -10 is not cold. I just ran 5km through it.
<OmNomDePlume> It's -28 in my fridge. Try running a 5km through that.
<OmNomDePlume> Yesterday was kind of eerie. Got home at two in the morning, looked outside. The whole neighbourhood was lit up as if it was evening.
<OmNomDePlume> Light reflecting off the snow, you see.
<czajkowski> boo
<czajkowski> Daviey: is taking over for the sy admin infrastucure talk for canonical
<popey> which room czajkowski ?
<popey> http://streams.fosdem.org/fosdem/h1301.ogg.m3u  daviey!
<AlanBell> fantastic
<gord> if its -28 in your fridge. its not a fridge. its a freezer
 * Myrtti goes out to -19C to blow soap bubbles
<penguin42> will they freeze?
<Myrtti> I hope so, nicer to take photos of
<penguin42> nod; well good luck
<Gary> snow snow snow!
<penguin42> Mint is VERY green
<kirrus> o/ BigRedS
<kirrus> You managed to find a stable connection then?
<BigRedS> er, sort of. I'm not really sure - not been paying much attention to online
<BigRedS> I've just stuck in a bunch of error-handling for when scripts I've writen (and just been working on) lose net connections....
<popey> I think I broke the ubuntu pastebin
<popey> "An error has occurred in the Pastebin software. Please notify the administrators. "
<gord> error handling is for wusses, i just restart some of my scripts every half hour
<kirrus> gord: if a script that BigRedS wrote breaks in interesting ways, we get to call him, no matter the hour :P
<kirrus> On the flipside, he gets to call me if varnish breaks in interesting ways :(
<gord> hrm, thought i'd broken something, ctrl stopped working, compiz stealing the key binding perhaps?! oh no, better check the code!
<gord> turned out to be a crumb under the ctrl key
<brobostigon> lol
<ali1234> i hate when that happens
<gord> last time i have digestives with my morning tea
<ali1234> press the key until it crunches
<BigRedS> yeah, I generally assume all key-related issues are down to misplaced biscuits
<brobostigon> i find bread crumbs, to be a good excuse.
<czajkowski> aloha
 * czajkowski waves at popey and ali1234 
<czajkowski> AlanBell:
 * AlanBell claps the fine performance
<czajkowski> heh
<czajkowski> the perception of some people about canonnical and Ubuntu is interesting
<czajkowski> also fedora folks ger a CC from redhat !
<ali1234> what's the perception?
<czajkowski> that locoteams are given money from canonical to operate
<ali1234> oh. never even occured to me that that might be the case
<AlanBell> yeah the embezzlement opportunity is totally missing :(
<ali1234> what does the loco even do that costs money?
<AlanBell> well there are plenty of things we *could* do
<sagaci> ali1234: they get given CDs and merch for computery events, afaik
<ali1234> i know that
<ali1234> but that isn't money
<sagaci> yeah, that's the perception some people have, not what happens
<ali1234> but i;m just wondering why people have that perception
<ali1234> i mean if the loco teams were going around handing out piles of cash to people
<ali1234> then i could understand it
<ali1234> but they aren't
<ali1234> afaik
<popey> i think they see the success of locos and think people must be doing it for money
<czajkowski> some of the griups fly people to places
<DJones> I guess people are still used to the idea that you don't get anything for free
<popey> theres no way they would do it voluntarily
<BigRedS> ali1234: I'd guess because canonical is very commercial and the loco teams seem more so than your traditional lug - no other distro really has the same support for the own-brand lugs
<AlanBell> not sure I would say canonical were very commercial, but your point stands
<ali1234> i'm still not even clear on what the locos actually do other than get together and talk about how great ubuntu is
<brobostigon> also maybe some geenral myth and legand that builds up, without confirmed information.
<czajkowski> obredhat is a lot commerical!
<popey> i want a silver sticker for my laptop
<ali1234> red hat still has users other than OEMs :)
<BigRedS> I suppose 'professional' might have been a better term
<brobostigon> ali1234: we within the loco, also do user support, and people come to us for help and support.
<ali1234> it's very clear that canonical now targets OEMs who in turn will target people who don't even know what linux is
<BigRedS> Canoical seems more able and more likely to give money to loco teams to get them to advertise their distro than any other distro. And there's not really a loco analog for most other distros.
<ali1234> locos add no value for such people
<ali1234> so why would canonical be interested in investing in them?
<BigRedS> you're thinking it through rather more than I think the people who hold those perceptions have
<ali1234> lol
<AlanBell> ali1234: they could add value, but there is a disconnect there
<AlanBell> Canonical keeps the OEM channel as far away from anything communityish as possible
<czajkowski> which does make sense tbh
<AlanBell> not really
<sagaci> kinda does
<AlanBell> nobody booting up an ubuntu laptop would have anything on it or in the box to indicate there is an active user group in their country
<ali1234> and why would they?
<sagaci> still would be nice to fit some kind of loco functionality into the localisation aspect of the installer, as an optional and/or encouraged module
<brobostigon> how sometimes, people buy hw with ubuntu contained, and come to us for support.
<brobostigon> however*
<BigRedS> yeah, xchat defaults :)
<ali1234> i rather doubt that any of the people who go to locos have paid for ubuntu based hardware
<ali1234> *for support
<ali1234> considering what you can actually buy with ubuntu
<AlanBell> sure, they don't
<AlanBell> they install windows on it
<ali1234> do you think that ubuntuTV users are going to be happy with community based support when their TV doesn't work? or will they justtake it back to the shop?
<AlanBell> back to the shop, which is fine
<ali1234> people who install ubuntu on an old laptop re the kind of people who show up at locos
<AlanBell> sure
<ali1234> these people don't buy ubuntu
<ali1234> which is why canonical doesn't support them
<AlanBell> my point is Canonical should use them more
<brobostigon> why would you buy ubuntu anyways?, makes no sense.
<ali1234> canonical already uses them to get free promotion and beta testing, how much more do you want tobe used?
<sagaci> well you don't buy ubuntu
<sagaci> well you can
<brobostigon> sagaci: yes, a pressed cd, from the canonical store.
<sagaci> 32-bit FTW
<ali1234> yes, only absolute nerds actually buy those CDs though
 * brobostigon goes to make coffee
<ali1234> this is the disconnect:
<ali1234> people like to support canonical
<ali1234> buy buying CDs and contributing to the community etc
<sagaci> I've bought a pack of 5CDs each release since Karmic
<ali1234> but when the community wants something from canonical, it's suddenly "sorry, we're a business"
<ali1234> neither side is doing anything wrong here
<ali1234> it's just a disconnect, is all
<AlanBell> hmm, that isn't the disconnect I see
<ali1234> in fact it's more than that
<ali1234> it's more like when people turn up and ask for things, the community springs to cannical's defense with the "well, they're a business" line
<AlanBell> canonical has this community support bit, which does fund some loco stuff, sends out CDs and a tablecloth (that Daviey has) this is a marketing function of Canonical
<ali1234> yep
<AlanBell> they also have the OEM team, commercial services, various bits doing actual work and getting no value from the community
<gord> canonical is the corporate sponsor of ubuntu - ubuntu is something we all come together to produce
<AlanBell> because community is the bit done by the marketing/community team
<ali1234> AlanBell: yes i agree with that
<ali1234> the community is only expected to contribute to building a bigger community
<AlanBell> that is an oversimplification as all simplifications are
<ali1234> as such all it does is hold meetings and parties
<ali1234> and give away CDs
<ali1234> and so on
<AlanBell> yup
<AlanBell> speaking of parties
<AlanBell> one sec, on phone
<sagaci> LoCo's need to do a hell of a lot more, on the whole
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> and i don't believe it is up to canonical to encourage that
<ali1234> and it's not really about locos either, we're all on the internet, location does not matter for most of the things the community could be doing
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps
<popey> hullo bigcalm
<bigcalm> Howdy popey
<bigcalm> popey: I think Hayley wants to run away with your brother's dogs
<popey> hah, they are cute
<bigcalm> Have you been playing in the snow?
<czajkowski> evil_snow
<bigcalm> We had freezing rain here that turned everything to ice. Bugger all snow really
<gordonjcp> it was icy here
<gordonjcp> last night I could barely drive off because the wheels were spinning in 2nd
<gordonjcp> then when I lifted off the throttle the front wheels locked up from the engine braking
<DJones> bigcalm: Same for us, I'm beginning to think that all the people commenting about snow, just live near somebody who's thrown a bottle of washing up liquid into a fountain
<bigcalm> :D
<OmNomDePlume> O'Neill is bringing Emule Heskey on.
<OmNomDePlume> Oh dear.
<christel> /11/4
<christel> er
<bigcalm> 2.75?
<shauno> This is quite bizarre.  Ireland is currently one of the warmest places in europe.  I'm not sure these words have been seen in this order before.
<czajkowski> shauno: indeed
<czajkowski> I am flipping frozen in brussels and heading back to london in snow
<shauno> 8 degrees, light drizzle, just like every other day of the decade :)
<penguin42> bah, 8 degrees, that's positively tropical
<OmNomDePlume> shauno: they only feel warm because they've been drinking.
<shauno> pfft. I'm on a 12hr shift.  I must deny that
<BigRedS> brussels is a good deal warmer today than it was yesterday
<brobostigon> stargate, itv4, :
<brobostigon> :)
<penguin42> it's a bit warmer in manchester as well, promising to stay at +1/+2 tomorrow, Tuesday the forecasts are saying -8c overnight :-(
<ali1234> lol my mate built a snowman with a realistic body but a normal snowman head and it looks freakish
<AlanBell> pix plz
<ali1234> https://plus.google.com/u/0/113908610041457856109/posts/CcHG3UCoaLv
<penguin42> ali1234: That's excellent!
<ali1234> probably had frostbite by the time he got around to the head :)
<penguin42> ali1234: Reminds me of Morph
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> yes it does
<bigcalm> http://thedoghousediaries.com/3399 :D
<ali1234> wait a minute duh
<ali1234> if i xor each byte of a string
<ali1234> then append that to the end
<ali1234> then if i xor each byte of the result
<ali1234> i get 0
<ali1234> so i don't need extra logic to cut off the checksum and check it
<ali1234> i just look for 0
<ali1234> because it ends up as x^x
<ali1234> that in turn means i can check as i receive instead of waiting for the end
<djbenny> afternoon
<ali1234> haha, thought my assembler code was bugged, turns out gamin is now not just reporting events, it also hangs python when you start a watcher
 * AlanBell fixored the car
<daubers> AlanBell: You can do mine next if you want :)
<AlanBell> does it have windscreen wipers that are flapping all over the place after being blocked by snow?
<daubers> No, it needs the battery to be given a full charge
<AlanBell> ah, my skills beyond wiper re-zeroing and tightening are a bit limited
<mgdm> daubers: as in 'take it inside and do it overnight'?
<gordonjcp> daubers: get it started, go for a long fast drive with the minimum of electrical equipment on
<gordonjcp> daubers: fwiw one of my Citroens will actually flatten its battery driving around town in the winter, with the lights, blowers, heated rear window etc on
<gordonjcp> it's an automatic so it's in top at about 25mph, and 1300rpm - not really enough for the alternator to do much
<daubers> gordonjcp: Yeah, it just struggles with the morning commute at the moment, don't think it's long enough to charge the battery back up
<daubers> was going to charge it while I'm at work, as that's easier than trailing cables all the way out of the flat window
<gordonjcp> how old is the battery?
<daubers> It's the original one with the car (02). It might need replacing but I'd rather try charging it back up before spending Â£70 odd on a new one
<gordonjcp> yeah
<gordonjcp> it's ten years old
<czajkowski> anyone seen Daviey
<DJones> czajkowski: Not for a while
<penguin42> hmm the guy doing the 3d projection 3d printer doesn't seem to be updating stuff
<penguin42> hmm maybe he has - he's moved to a new site: 3dlprint.com
<SuperEngineer> o/
<SuperEngineer> listening to WC on Linux Outlaws - is he a defector?
<DJones> Heh I like this http://distilleryimage1.instagram.com/753824a64eb511e19896123138142014_7.jpg
<bigcalm> Hehe
<bigcalm> Is g+ still not doing too well outside of geek circles?
<DJones> I think its doing better than Diaspora
<bigcalm> I only remember about that when other people mention it
<zleap> bigcalm, yeah me too
<zleap> had a discssion the other day about it on my local lug list, i maintain the name is hardly catchy
<popey> bigcalm: i find G+ has more interesting content than facebook but thats probably just because I havent subscribed to the same people in facebook as i have in G+
<zleap> yeah google+ also seems more intellegent,
<AlanBell> nice typo
<zleap> as in I can post something and get a more sensible response
<zleap> AlanBell, typo ?
<bigcalm> Most of the people I have on facebook are unlikely to switch to g+. With the poop they put on facebook, I'm happy for them to stay put
<AlanBell> "intellegent"
<AlanBell> nvm
<zleap> ok
 * zleap can't spell
<AlanBell> G+ has the advantage of not having mum on it
<zleap> bigcalm, you summed up my feeling there too
<jacobw> today is superbowl day in the US
<zleap> yep
<jacobw> giants vs patriots at 2330 gmt
<zleap> its on bb1,
<zleap> 6 hours for a 1 hour game, on and madonna at 1/2 time
<AlanBell> she must be quite grown up by now
<jacobw> lol
<zleap> yep
<AlanBell> she is 53
<zleap> my typing is terrible on this keyboard
<jacobw> its not 6 hours, its only 5 hours and 5 minutes :p
<zleap> i thought the bbc coverage started at 22:50
<zleap> even so the game is still 4  - 15 min quaters
<jacobw> 2255 to 0400
<zleap> ok i can't add up either then
<zleap> lol
<gordonjcp> zleap: american "football"?
<zleap> yep i know
<bigcalm> gordonjcp: hand egg
<gordonjcp> where some dudes waddle up and down a field in fat suits until one of them falls over
<jacobw> i've watched gridiron before, it takes a long time
<gordonjcp> and then they take a break for ten minutes
<zleap> you get some big hits though
<gordonjcp> it's like watching an outtake roll from the Tellytubbies on mogadon
<zleap> yeah but thats cos you bring on a defensive team or offensive team
<zleap> well usually the WR or QB is ligter it depends on position,  if you were in the line of scrimmage you would want lots of padding
<gordonjcp> why?
 * zleap has dummies book
<zleap> cos you get hit by the other team
<gordonjcp> uh
<gordonjcp> yeah, I used to play shinty
<gordonjcp> where you don't wear padding
<AlanBell> I am sure they would enjoy a nice game of cricket a lot more, you get time off to go and have tea and stuff
<zleap> i am involved in rugby,   underarmour perhaps but not massive pads
<zleap> its a different game,   tactically its rather complex
<bigcalm> Mmm, tea
<zleap> esp when you look at the play calls
<jacobw> cricket is the only sport that include meal breaks :|
<zleap> what about port break ?
<gordonjcp> zleap: have you seen shinty?
<zleap> gordonjcp, nope
<gordonjcp> zleap: okay, have you seen ice hockey?
<gordonjcp> imagine that played on grass
<zleap> We get that with the vets game paignton vs chobham,   they get (or used to get port) at 1/2 time
<gordonjcp> and it's very fast and violent
<zleap> ouch
<AlanBell> and the only sport where you can play a game for 5 days, not get a result and that is one of a best out of 5 series
<zleap> lol
<alexcockell> LMAO...
<zleap> like the world series over 7 games
<zleap> baseball
<alexcockell> Hi all- so some of youa re going to be watching their attempt at Rugby League with pads as well?
<zleap> well may watch some of it
<zleap> recording it,  got about 10 years worth of superbowls recorded
<alexcockell> I remember that clip on 'Tube where  the commentators were "so shocked" at 15-20 passes... the guys were playing League...
 * jacobw wonders whether quiddich is derived from shinty
<zleap> I wonder if a playerr in rugby would miss a 31 yard kick from in front of the posts,  like the baltimore kicker did,
<gordonjcp> jacobw: are you allowed to hook an opponent's legs out from under them and hit them over the head as they go down in Quidditch?
<jacobw> gordonjcp: physical violence in the paradigm of wizards on brooms is silly :)
<jacobw> s/physical/bodily
<diplo> Evening all
<bigcalm> That's odd
<bigcalm> g+ Instant upload has been disabled on my phone
<bigcalm> Hi diplo
<alexcockell> Apparently according to EFNet folks, the pre-match footage has lots of T&A... almost like boxing..
<zleap> jacobw, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiddich#Ancient_games
<popey> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA0V107U8739
<popey> interesting device
<popey> USB powered, VGA & DVI connected screen
<zleap> nice
<zleap> grr if it had hdmi input you could use it with the raspberryPI
<popey> you dont need hdmi for rasppi
<bigcalm> popey: that is interesting indeed
<AlanBell> you can do hdmi to dvi very easily
<popey> 5 quid gets you a converter
<zleap> oh it has hdmi
<zleap> on the details tab it says no next to dvi
<popey> doesnt matter
<popey> you can convert DVI and HDMI
<zleap> ok
<zleap> cool
<tombrough> zleap?
<zleap> hi
<zleap> hows you,  long time no chat :)
<SuperEngineer> hmmmâ¦ 9pm & only just below freezing - is it summer already? ;)
<zleap> do i need to run open arena server inorder to play in single player mode, if not i can remove from auto load on start up and save some system resources
<directhex> zleap, you don't need openarena server to play single player afaik
<zleap> ok thanks
<directhex> zleap, is it disableable via a twiddle in /etc/default ?
<zleap> `so i edit that file
<zleap> what is twiddle
<directhex> dunno, most super-optional daemons have a parameter in there to enable/disable
<zleap> ok
<directhex> don't have the gigglebytes on this train to do a test install
<zleap> its a program that allowsme to config stuff theb
<zleap> then
<kirrus> directhex: gigglebytes? Is that like gigabytes, but where the traffic sings to you as it comes down the wire?
<directhex> kirrus, nah, just traffic containing lolcats
<zleap> i am trying to run start up applications via dash but it isn't working
<AlanBell> one day I will once more have an operating system where alt-tab does something I might expect it to do
<kirrus> AlanBell: when you program it yourself?
<kirrus> directhex: that sounds boring ;)
<directhex> AlanBell, unity?
<zleap> my alt tabkeeps giving me huge previews of windows,  but not sure what is triggering it
<AlanBell> well I can just switch to a sensible switcher, but I am trying to get used to the unity one
<AlanBell> I have a terminal with a server in it, an editor editing the code the server runs and a browser looking at the results of the server
<AlanBell> I can see all of them on the screen, I want to flip focus between them
<AlanBell> I don't want to raise all the other terminals and browsers and editors I might have open
<dwatkins> zleap: totem?
<zleap> maybe
<dwatkins> bug 216939, perhaps
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 216939 in xine-lib (Ubuntu) "totem causes alt key press in openoffice every 30 seconds" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/216939
<kirrus> the oneirc switcher does seem a bit weird
<zleap> so whatkey combo
<zleap> kirrus, i willsee if I can figure out how to reproduce it and hence what is causing it
<zleap> brb,  need to check see what time the nfl is set to record from
<popey> AlanBell: i filed a bug about that
<popey> bug 861250
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 861250 in unity (Ubuntu) "alt-tab - quick alt + tab (before the switcher shows) not consistent" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861250
<alexcockell> Rugby League For Wimps due to start in 15 mins on BBC1
<mattt> rugby league?  people watch that?
<zleap> american football is a different sport
<zleap> as i said more tactical
<zleap> iformation with WR right to FB hooks here we come
<mattt> oh, super bowl tonight isn't it
<zleap> yeah
<mattt> football is an OK sport, shame about the non-stop stopping tho
<zleap> the idea is to gain 10 yards, hence they stop in order to change the play
<zleap> or if they faul to gain 10 yards change the team when they lose possession
<zleap> fail
<mattt> zleap: are you american?
<zleap> no
<alexcockell> However, basic gameplay was kinda derived from League...
<zleap> english
<alexcockell> 7 minutes to BBC1 coverage...
<alexcockell> Oh - and 1 forward pass is allowed, then it's backward passing...
<zleap> alexcockell, in football or rugby league
<alexcockell> American Football.
<zleap> well inrugby you kick forward then pass back
<zleap> but can kick forward in a game (or you can in union) not sure about league
<mattt> you can chip kick in league i believe
<alexcockell> I remember the Beeb were drawing comparisons with League the first year they aired it.
<alexcockell> Which made the match a helluva lot easier to understand.
<zleap> well they did have martin johnson doing the studio stuff at one time,
<zleap> is there still a big league vs union war going on (kinda like emacs vs vi eh)
<mattt> i don't know anyone that watches league
<zleap> nor me
<mattt> it's alright, i'd rather watch it to football tho
<mattt> plus they have teams called things like the rabbitohs
<zleap> sale sharks, are they league
<mattt> nope
<zleap> union
<zleap> lol
<mattt> english premiership
<zleap> same as exeter then
<zleap> which is my local premiership rugby team
<mattt> what made me laugh
<mattt> i saw a random uni football game while in texas
<zleap> ah NCAA
<mattt> it was a pretty non-descript game, and there were like 50-60k people there
<mattt> and jets flew over at before kickoff
<zleap> Its more popular in some cases than NFL as it shows upcoming players (remember teams can draft from college teams)
<mattt> yeah, people in texas love their college team
<zleap> its a shame we don't get that sort of support for UK uni sport teams eh
<mattt> heh
<mattt> there's not even that kind of support at pro rugby games :)
<zleap> yeah
<mattt> to be fair, i went to a few super 15 (was 14) when in wellington, nz
<zleap> ah
<mattt> and it was the same there, attendance was piss poor
<mattt> actually probably worse :P
<zleap> in the US and canada its really like a family day out,
<zleap> esp with the baseball
<ubuntuuk-planet> [Andy Loughran] Back up to Ubuntu server using Time Machine with OS X Lion 10.7 - http://zrmt.com/2012/02/05/back-up-to-ubuntu-server-using-time-machine-with-os-x-lion-10-7/
<mattt> well, in wellington it's cheap to go out to the games, and very cheap to eat and drink at the stadium
<mattt> but it's too cold and i don't think people can be bothered sitting outside in the cold
<zleap> yeah i got tickets to the blue jays for Â£2
<mattt> surely that wasn't normal tho?
<zleap> and later on for Â£20 for closer seats
<zleap> this is for major league,  baseball
<mattt> <-- from toronto :P
<zleap> cool
<zleap> i was in toronto in 2006
<zleap> work canada
<mattt> i left 2003, been here since
<zleap> ah
<mattt> only mananged to see a couple of blue jay games tho
<mattt> there was some fiasco in the late 90s iirc
<mattt> where players went on strike or some crap
<zleap> i was on summer camp for about 2 months I thibk, then went over to vancouver
<mattt> and after that people just couldn't be bothered, they stopped watching baseball
<zleap> yeah heard about that
<zleap> nfl players went on strike at one point too
<mattt> which did you prefer, vancouver or toronto?
<zleap> toronto
<zleap> vancouver is kinda wet,  (was there in october - december)
<mattt> ah, yeah
<mattt> the weather is very similar to here
<zleap> i did get to some lug meets in canada though
<zleap> well 3 days of torential rain
<zleap> still rugby is good over there :D
<mattt> it is?
<zleap> yeah,  teams in toronto and vancouver and other places
<mattt> it's very niche
<zleap> so its getting there,
<zleap> yeah,  i wanna go to the ny 7's
<zleap> thast sounds pretty good
<mattt> would rather go to the HK 7s or something personally :D
<zleap> NY is closer and may be cheaper to fly to,
<zleap> but yeah, any 7's  tournament would begood
<mattt> why not go to twickenham?
<zleap> hmm
<zleap> i want a holiday so going when it co-incides with something would be a good excuse
<zleap> plus I can hang out with some of the nylug people perhaps
<mattt> ah
<mattt> i want to book a holiday to nyc
<mattt> haven't been in about 10 years
<zleap> kinda long distance nylug member
<zleap> of course the washington dc lug can be shortned to dclug the same as the devon and cornwalll lug
<mattt> do people actually attend lugs here?
<mattt> never been to one myself
<zleap> well i arrange the dclug meets in paignton
<zleap> can't go due to rugby,  but got free weekend coming up that happens to also co-incide with lug meet
<mattt> http://www.dcglug.org.uk/sites/www.dcglug.org.uk/files/images/DCGLUG.jpg
<zleap> so wil go to that, i need help getting a dual boot usb stick working so I can boot several live cds from a usb stick
<mattt> which one are you?  :P
<zleap> not onthere,  probably the one taking the photo
<mattt> maybe i'll check out the sclug some time
<zleap> i am not even on the paignton first XV photo,   I am team kit manager, but I took the photo
<zleap> lol
<zleap> sclug
<zleap> south coast
<zleap> well lug meets were well attended in toronto and vancouver  but they had more formal talks then a social bit
<zleap> nope silicon corridor,  south coast is on in Australia
<zleap> why doesn't rhythm box appear in alt tab switcher ?
<mattt> sclug seems a bit dead, judging from mlist
<mattt> they do have a meetup this week tho
<zleap> may be worth going
<zleap> hey what sort of time
<zleap> dclug one startsd at 14:30 maybe we can do a irc linkup
<popey> zleap: is it minimised in the notification area?
<zleap> ok
<zleap> but i can't see the icon for it
<zleap> i know its running
<popey> in the sound menu
<zleap> ah
<zleap> thanks
<zleap> ok accidently switched to party mode and could not find a way out of it
<zleap> had to use top and kill it
<popey> zleap: F11
<zleap> ah
<zleap> i will know next time
<zleap> i am off to watch nfl nite all
<zleap> thanks popey
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-28
<popey> 22:15:38 < ali1234> i'm serious btw. they have download links for "portable media devices" which is what get-iplayer fetches
<popey> ali1234: only by default. most people tend to get the HD streams via rtmpdump (or similar) which aren't the same as those 'mobile' files
<knightwi1e> mornin everyone
<popey> morning
<andylockran> morning dudes and dudettes
<andylockran> how goes things?
<popey> Snow gone: UK back to normal!
<kvarley> popey: None here now, the rain melted it all!
<kvarley> \o/ freesat hd now working on my Raspberry Pi :D
<diplo> Morning all
<dwatkins> kvarley: excellent, using xbmc?
<JamesTait> Happy Monday, folks! :-D
<knightwi1e> morning everyone !
<knightwi1e> Hello michelle_ ! How nice to see you again :)
<michelle_> morning knightwi1e :)
<mungbean> hi guys, does anyone know of a good solution for easily scanning around 1000 photos? i have a scanner but scanning whole A4 page and cropping is tedious
<popey> get someone else to do it?
<popey> ~13p each
<mungbean> i notice there's a agfa photo scanner ~33
<mungbean> popey, where for 13p? i';m seeing Â£75 for 1000 photos
<popey> http://www.iphotoscanning.co.uk/photo-scanning-service-1/scan-my-photographs/high-quality-photo-scanning.html
<popey> first hit from google, I'm sure shopping around yeilds better results
<mungbean> argh, maths fail 13p is more than 7.5p
<brobostigon> good morning everyone.
<solarcloud_3srcn> morning.. one cheese and bacon toastie later on ...
<brobostigon> yummy,
<solarcloud_3srcn> mayo too !
<solarcloud_3srcn> brobostigon: Morning..
<brobostigon> morning
<solarcloud_3srcn> The weather is set to get alot worse BTW...
<brobostigon> solarcloud_3srcn: the weather looks like it will be fine here, except for some patches of rain.
<diplo> I found funny this morning, set for rain and wind today and temp around 5-10 degrees but on the way to work there were gritters on the roads?!?!?
<mungbean> what does everyone else do for scanning 100s of family photosthen?
<diplo> Scan them and crop them, I just do it when I have some time
<diplo> Over a few weeks/months
<solarcloud_3srcn> I put them on multiple cd's/ dvd's.
<bubu> morn guys
<solarcloud_3srcn> hi there.
<bubu> having a cron issue; 30 10 * * * . cd /opt/systems/chefbackup && knife exec chef_server_backup.rb results in cron failure: /bin/sh 1: .: cd: not found
<mgdm> what's the . for?
<mgdm> you can't 'source' cd, it's a shell built-in command
<bubu> i just want it to run ' knife exec chef_server_backup ' from the /opt/systems/chefbackup folder
<mgdm> remove the .
<bubu> kk
<bubu> balls, now getting ERROR: ArgumentError: cannot sign the request without a client name
<bubu> so the script fails
<bubu> i need to load an environment I guess
<bubu> when I run the command manually it runs ok...
<mgdm> when things run from cron they generally have next to no environment variables set
<mgdm> etc
<bubu> ok - so how would you set the needed variables?
<mgdm> I would put the whole command into a shell script and call that from cron
<mgdm> then you can set what you like inside the script
<mungbean> +1
<bubu> hmm
<bubu> i just need cron to load root's bash_profile env
<bubu> i just need cron to load root's bash_profile env
<bubu> oops apologies
<bubu> would * 10 * * * . /root/.bash_profile && cd /opt/systems/chefbackup && knife exec chef_server_backup.rb
<brobostigon> wow, just running apt-get update and it hit a load figure of 42 on my eeepc,
<bubu> load my env from roots bash_profile?
<bubu> lol brobostigon
<brobostigon> bubu: it isnt funny, i am not lieing.
<SuperMatt> bubu: get replace that first * with a minute!
<SuperMatt> otherwise it runs every minute between 10 and 11
<bubu> ja the time was just an example
<mgdm> bubu: I'd move the bits you need into /root/.profile instead
<mgdm> I think that should work, at least...
<bubu> mgdm why .profile out of interest?
<bubu> bash_profile seems to have worked ok
<mgdm> there's .profile, .bash_profile and .bashrc which all run at different times
<mgdm> I forget which, though
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> czajkowski: prod, morning you scary cow'd backdrop feeling person you ;)
<czajkowski> ello
<davmor2> czajkowski: it took me ages to figure out that it was hippos teeth in a cows mouth :D tis a funny backdrop though
<czajkowski> :)
<bigcalm> Ello peeps :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: How do
<bigcalm> davmor2: 2h 43m into holiday and I'm bored
<bigcalm> Might play some HL in a bit
<popey> holiday!
<bigcalm> Forgot that I had booked a week off to mirror Hayley's week off
<davmor2> bigcalm: Muhahahahaha that'll teach you!
 * bigcalm looks at new SSD for his new machine
<dwatkins> I was considering that yesterday, I wonder what the sweet-spot is for price vs capacity right now
<bigcalm> Do I take Corey Goldberg's word that I'd have to do a fresh install rather than being able to move my current SSD over?
<popey> who?
<bigcalm> popey: yeah, that's what I thought
<dwatkins> I would probably just use clonezilla.
<bigcalm> https://plus.google.com/u/1/113834766641843352499/posts/cRKKn5PhDsR
<mgdm> I used dd last time I moved HDs, but if I do get an SSD I'm just doing a clean install
<davmor2> popey: works for canonical in QA for U1
<davmor2> bigcalm: drop the ssd in see what happen
<bigcalm> davmor2: that's what I was thinking. But I'd like to have things ready to a degree
<davmor2> bigcalm: it shouldn't have an issue with new hardware the only thing a fresh install will really do is ensure nothing dies a death and if binary drivers have been previously installed that are different ie old box is Ati new box is nvidia etc
<bigcalm> davmor2: thankfully it's nVidia in old and new. But I understand the point
<bigcalm> I might leave this ssd in this machine as a backup
 * popey hugs SSD
<bigcalm> The new machine comes with a 1TB HDD. Shame it won't be used
<popey> desktop?
<bigcalm> http://www.dell.com/uk/p/alienware-x51/pd?oc=d00and49&model_id=alienware-x51
<popey> gosh
<popey> why is the 1TB not used?
<popey> stick it in a USB3 caddy?
<popey> use it for backups etc
<bigcalm> That is a sensible idea
<dwatkins> I have several spare drives, I seem to buy a new external caddy every couple months for various reasons
<dwatkins> I made a point of getting one that supports eSATA this time, so accessing it should be nice and quick.
<awilkins> dwatkins, I had real issues with external caddies for a while
<awilkins> dwatkins, I think the power electronics on a lot of them are cheap and they fail
<awilkins> dwatkins, Also had drives fail due to physical shock ; since I went SSD both these problems have ended because they're shockproof and low-power
<dwatkins> ah yes
<awilkins> I'm really liking my current caddy which has a 2.5" docking bay but also works externally
<awilkins> eSATA or USB
<awilkins> This one isn't as nice http://www.scan.co.uk/products/icybox-ib-266stusd-b-black-hdd-case-usb2-esata-for-25-sata-hard-drive-inc-35-docking-station
<Azelphur> O.o my electric oven just went nuts and started spewing out smoke at about the same rate as a typical fog machine
<dwatkins> which is the nice one, awilkins?
<awilkins> Can't see it anymore, it's a Silverstone
<dwatkins> ah yes, good stuff
<dwatkins> I just bought their 5.25" slot loading aluminium bay cover
<awilkins> This one : http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=932&num=1
<dwatkins> cool ta
<popey> AlanBell: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/1107866  look familiar âº
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1107866 in unity (Ubuntu) "Show window list when right clicking an icon in launcher - enables quick window switching" [Wishlist,Triaged]
<SuperMatt> is anyone getting 503 on sabdfl's blog?
<ali1234> popey: the reply to it sounds familiar too
<ali1234> how does one become a member of the design team?
<ali1234> maybe if we could get enough sensible people onto it, unity could be fixed?
<aptanet> can anyone think of a reason why I can't switch monitors until I get below the 5th icon down on the dash?
<aptanet> ooh, ooh, me, me I've just thought of why
<aptanet> different screen sizes - doh!
<aptanet> I'll go back to sleep now ;)
<SuperMatt> popey: that patch is gonna be cool :)
<popey> ali1234: ask jnick_tait âº
<ali1234> what does "ayatana design" team actually produce?
<ali1234> they have no blueprints and nothing in bzr
<ali1234> shouldn't there be a design document somewhere?
<ali1234> or is being an impenetrable roadblock to progress their only purpose?
<popey> its a method to allow the design team to track stuff
<popey> to work around the bug management in launchpad
<popey> http://people.canonical.com/~platform/design/upstream.html
<popey> powers that
<ali1234> so what does it mean when a bug is "fix commited" in ayatana design?
<ali1234> what is the fix commited to exactly?
<arsen> presumably committed to the next release? :s
<ali1234> but ayatana design doesn't release anything
<ali1234> it is still marked as wishlist in unity
<ali1234> sorry, triaged
<popey> it's for managing their workflow
<popey> to indicate that design have signed off on bugs
<SuperMatt> holy... I just noticed one of my bugs in on the design bugs for ubuntu page
<ali1234> that's because it is auto generated
<SuperMatt> oh right
<SuperMatt> nice to see my bug is high priority though
<SuperMatt> it's the one where unity captures the superkey when you're using a vm or vnc
<SuperMatt> which is terribly frustrating
<ali1234> just disable super and alt in unity config
<ali1234> in ccsm
<ali1234> it's not like they do anything useful
<SuperMatt> ...
<SuperMatt> except open the dash
<SuperMatt> which I do all the time
<SuperMatt> but I don't want to open the dash in a vm or vnc
<ali1234> who even opens the dash?
<popey> i do, all the time
<SuperMatt> me too
<popey> well, when I open apps
<ali1234> there's no reason to do so
<ali1234> it's much more efficient to launch apps from a terminal window
<SuperMatt> it's the quickets way to open apps
<popey> nah
<ali1234> because terminal windows are open all the time
<ali1234> then you just pin them
<SuperMatt> I don't want to have to open a terminal window for every app I want to run
<popey> i find it faster to use dash
<ali1234> then you don't ever have to wait three seconds for the dash to open and then futz around in an annoying mess of amazon junk :)
<popey> super, ge, enter, \o/ gedit
<MartijnVdS> </queen_nl><king_nl>
<SuperMatt> also: super -> text is less keystrokes than ctrl+alt+t -> text
<MartijnVdS> popey: I use alt+f2
<popey> also end up with terminals kicking around
<popey> that too
<ali1234> who doesn't have terminals open?
<popey> i have one
<popey> the one I am typing at you in
<ali1234> one is more than enough
<MartijnVdS> popey: because I don't think "super" looks in original language (English) descriptions, only in localised ones
<rowinggolfer> popey, I am surprised to see that www.ubuntu.com has no ipv6 support
<popey> I am not.
<rowinggolfer> popey, surely you should be trend setting?
<rowinggolfer> you == canonical
<rowinggolfer> ;)
<popey> file a bug
<rowinggolfer> popey :)
<SuperMatt> ideally I think people would like to see ipv6 repos, and I'm certain I've been a bug about that
<SuperMatt> but surely ipv6 can access the ipv4 address space?
<popey> bug 995137
<SuperMatt> which means it's only cosumer ISPs that desperately need to make sure their ipv6 is up to snuff
<lubotu3> bug 995137 in ubuntu-website-content "Add IPv6 support to sites" [Wishlist,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/995137
<rowinggolfer> bug 1108055
<lubotu3> bug 1108055 in Ubuntu "ubuntu.com has no ipv6 support" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1108055
<mgdm> daubers: was it you who once called 999 on the tv licencing guy who let himself into your flat...?
<daubers> mgdm: Yup
<MartijnVdS> mgdm: you mean 0118 999 881 999 119 725...3?
<Paladine> http://conversation.which.co.uk/technology/google-privacy-lawsuit-apple-safari-cookie-tracking-iphone-ipad-olswang/
<mgdm> daubers: well played. I just got remindedof that earlier
<daubers> mgdm: They don't like the question "How come the police need a warrent but you don't?"
<mgdm> heh
<gord> geez, why would he do that? surely his job isn't worth getting thrown in gaol for tresspassing for
 * mgdm makes notes
<daubers> gord: This was in halls
<daubers> gord: Remember according to many, students aren't important and have no rights
<gord> they've tried to come in my house before because i don't have a licence, i've said no and they said okay
<mgdm> when I was in halls the enforcement was done by a janitor, who had the keys anyway, and would let themselves in and have a nose about and leave a note
<shauno> there's a few bugs open for canonical sites not having ipv6; bug 241305 is 2008
<lubotu3> bug 241305 in Ubuntu Website "security.ubuntu.com not accessible in IPv6 (AAAA record missing in the DNS)" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/241305
<daubers> gord: They get grumpy with me every time. Specially when I send letters back to them asking them to prove to me that I recieve broadcast after recieving their threatening letters
<gord> ask them to use a detector van
<daubers> :p
<daubers> oooh home time!
<MartijnVdS> tricorders and quantum fluctiations prove it!
<gord> i wish i had a business where i was allowed to send out really threatening letters to people to pay up or face fines
 * daubers goes home
<mgdm> gord: take up patent trolling
<gord> or, become an actual troll under a bridge!
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-21237254
<popey> blimey
<MartijnVdS> We'll get a King William IV (most likely)
<popey> can't see our queenie doing that
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you need to enable a PPA for MTP to work properly? Or is it in today's Raring updates?
<davmor2> popey: I think she will but for Charles to turn it down and it move to William and Kate :) The are being groomed
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: That will just lead to confusion though
<MartijnVdS> "King William" "Which one?"
<popey> raring works
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: The numbers at the end will give it away
<davmor2> popey: what do you mean raring works?
<popey> 18:10:37 < MartijnVdS> popey: did you need to enable a PPA for MTP to work properly? Or is it in today's Raring updates?
<MartijnVdS> popey: hm, ok.. doesn't seem to work for my GNexus
<MartijnVdS> ah
<MartijnVdS> I needed to reboot ;)
<MartijnVdS> probably some old gvfsd lingering
<MartijnVdS> Hm.. that made my my workspaces disappear too
<Darael> ...What possessed me to try a real-time game of Singularity?  Well, it should keep me occasionally-occupied for the next N years, I suppose.
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: did it work post reboot?
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: yes but rhythmbox doesn't transcode flac -> mp3 :(
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: it also picks up too many files (like the "Turn left" prompts from Google Navigation)
<MartijnVdS> great, Chrome is confused again
<solarcloud_3srcn> Went to sleep with the heating on ..... woke up 2 hours later and thought I had died !!
<jacobw> solarcloud_3srcn: understandable, it is quite warm in hell
<skinofstars> hi all. quick question, how do i launch programs with unity? like ones which i know are in bin but don't have a .desktop file
<skinofstars> like in crunchbang you can use dmenu or the quick launcher
<skinofstars> ubuntu-uk told me. alt+f2. thanks
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-29
<ali1234> lol
<ali1234> if you do "forgot password" on rswww.com, and you don't have an account, it sends you a blank form email
<ali1234> "hello , your username is ."
<popey> Morning
<dogmatic69> o/
<TheOpenSourcerer> Hullo earthlings one and all!
<dwatkins> greetings oh TheOpenSourcerer one
<TheOpenSourcerer> :-)
<popey> moo
<dwatkins> ack
<solarcloud_3srcn> morning people of earth this is your gimp : solarcloud_3srcn
<solarcloud_3srcn> Anyone into fishing ?? http://www.indiegogo.com/finaddictz/x/2125880
<solarcloud_3srcn> $100k for fishing !!!
<dwatkins> nice work if you can get it
<SuperMatt> did anyone else have their update manager (in raring) wait for user interaction today? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/1108695
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1108695 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "When dpkg-exec runs during an upgrade and requires user interaction, nothing is done to make the user aware of this." [Undecided,New]
<daubers> Morning
<SuperMatt> morning daubers
<BigRedS> If I see this, against what should I be filing a bug? http://avi.co/stuff/empathy_enter_account_settings.png
<BigRedS> It doesn't look like it's part of empathy. Which reminds me, is there some other way to give empathy my Jabber details? I'm running low on working XMPP clients :)
<popey> gnome-online-accounts
<popey> IMO
<BigRedS> Ah, now that I've uploaded a screenshot it's working...
<directhex> ubuntu online accounts
<BigRedS> well, it's getting one step further, now it's just refusing to maintain a connection....
<directhex> which is heavily forked
<directhex> from gnome online accounts
<BigRedS> Why do I need to "Authorise Ubuntu to access [my] Jabber account"? I just want Empathy to be able to use it. Or is that what it means?
<BigRedS> Ah, even if I try that it disconnects and helpfully tells me "No reason specified"
<lornajane> at least it is honest
<BigRedS> There's a huge number of problems that I'm having in 13.04 that were solved in about 2004. I'm really unconvinced by some of this 'progress'
<directhex> computers are basically terrible
<BigRedS> they used to be a good deal better. I'm a bit miffed at being in 'that' camp, but I'm really trying to work out what's better now...
<directhex> http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> Oh yeah, I still thing Gnome 3 was one big excuse to not fix NetworkManager
<BigRedS> encrypted filesystems! That's one plus side. And the search-orientated DE is good, but it's a bit bad that Unity's broken alt-f2 a bit
<directhex> computers are terrible
<BigRedS> yeah, but they're made by people. They can't help but do what they're told, the poor things
<bigcalm> Ahoy hoy
<davmor2> Morning all
<daubers> popey: You reading the reading hackspace mailing list by any chance?
<popey> daubers: yeah
<popey> fun
<daubers> popey: Tell me about it. I seriously should just throw a django forum together that also works as a mailinglist
<daubers> Don't really want to get involved in that argument though
<daubers> popey: Also, interesting fact. Reading Hackspace 2.0 may have a coworking area
<popey> interesting
<daubers> Though there are some logistical and financial issues to overcome with relation to it
<daubers> I can't remember if it was you or AlanBell that was interested in coworking spaces
<chib_> ok thanks
<popey> uhm
<czajkowski> hows everyone ?
<BigRedS> Amazing!
<BigRedS> Actually, mildly annoyed at computers in general, but I've had a lot of coffee
<lornajane> computers are rubbish, they'll never catch on
<popey> +1
<popey> lets all go and live in a commune in the forest
<lornajane> ooh, yes
<BigRedS> I mean, if all these problems were fixed I wouldn't really have a job, but if *some* of them were fixed I'd have an easier one :)
<czajkowski> I've made two saucepans of soup today and chicken n veg stir fry for 6 dinners
<czajkowski> turns out not sleeping leads to cooking
<popey> i rediscovered old school rap music today
<czajkowski> and only mildly frustrated at housemate for breaking washing machine and going ohh don't you just press the button harder
<czajkowski> *wallop* no you don't
<popey> been rocking out to Big Daddy Kane.
<czajkowski> popey: link?
<popey> spotify
<lornajane> czajkowski: that sounds super tasty, although the not-sleeping is always bad news
<czajkowski> popey: ah I dont use that
<czajkowski> to youtube
<Laney> you need a chopstick to press in the hole that once was the button
<popey> its totally not PC
<mungbean> anyone use OBDII readers on their car to get diagnostic and other fun stuff?
<popey> wifey uses chopsticks to scratch her arm now it's in a plaster
<popey> mungbean: i heard someone talking about it recently.. might be marxjohnson or lauracowen
<Laney> I hope ones that won't break :(
<popey> none have yet
<Laney> also she should be careful not to break / irritate the skin
<Laney> kind of bad if that happens underneath a cast
<mungbean> i borrowed one off a mate but didn't do the full job
<mungbean> not sure if my car or not
<Laney> I used a 30cm ruler when I had my leg in plaster
<mungbean> seems to be a minefield, like finding out how to install CM on your phone
<mungbean> was a bit underwhelmed after installing android 4.1.2 on my tablet ..same as before mostly
<czajkowski> lornajane: https://twitter.com/czajkowski/status/296239169741668352/photo/1
<mungbean> was on CM9 previously
<popey> pffft, CM is so yesterday.. all the cool kids are putting Ubuntu Phone on their Android devices ;)
<lornajane> czajkowski: cooking is therapy, and that really does all look great :)
<czajkowski> yup just waiting on a mate to pop over so we'll either have vegetable soup the larger one, or some butternut squash which I've gone mad on lately
<Laney> jerusalem artichoke soup
<Laney> it's the best. make it make it MAKE IT
<Laney> corned beef hash time!
<czajkowski> lornajane: how about we make it and box you up in it :)
<czajkowski> not a lover of corned beef
<popey> ooo, not had corned beef for ages
<mungbean> would love ubuntu on my tablet
<mungbean> more ideal than the phone tbh
<popey> which tablet?
<popey> the HP one?
<mungbean> yesh
<mungbean> with ubuntu on it i could get a keyboard and have more powerful device than a big phone
<lornajane> I think you're describing a netbook
<popey> heh
<mungbean> what i really like is the asus transformer
<popey> overrated
<mgdm> +1
<mungbean> running ubuntu 13.01 touchy terrapin would be great use case and would be my future laptop replacement
<davmor2> mungbean: get a nexus 7 plus the nice metal clip on keyboard if you want something like that
<lornajane> I have the thinkpad X220T with touch screen and swivel, it's nice
<mungbean> popey: u have a trnasformer right?
<popey> mungbean: i did, but not anymore
<davmor2> mungbean: http://bit.ly/VPXNob this one
<mungbean> davmor2: i've seen similar cases for ipad but none for my touchpad
<mungbean> need to test the TP with my friends ipad one
<mungbean> but yes, i like this
<popey> current tablet du jour here is the nexus 7
<popey> I also have a SmartQ T20 and iPad 1.
 * popey hugs Myrtti 
<Myrtti> whee, after a year watching locale error messages, I now finally decided to get rid of it
<dwatkins> cool
<dwatkins> I get an RPC error at shutdown, but havn't looked into whether I can get rid of it yet, as I don't look at the screen during shutdown very often.
<popey> yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
<popey> You know when you lose those dongles that come with wireless mice?
<popey> I just dug an HP xe4100 laptop out of a drawer and there's one I've been looking for, in the USB port
<dwatkins> there are wireless mice with dongles?
<popey> \o/
<popey> there are
<dwatkins> heh, nice one
<popey> most have them
<dwatkins> why don't they just use Bluetooth, though?
<mgdm> ecause it's less faff not to, I'd guess
<popey> because bluetooth eats batteries
<popey> and you have no guarantee the device has bluetooth, so why not ship a dongle
<lornajane> this is exactly why I like my peripherals wired, they're harder to lose
<popey> (these aren't bluetooth)
<popey> i dont think this laptop has been booted in ~2 years
<mungbean> i have a wireless mouse thats not bt
<mungbean> some other hfreq
<mgdm> My presenter mouse has a tiny dongle that fits inside it. Other than that most things I have are wired, apart from my Apple trackpad, which is Bluetooth
<popey> heh, this windows xp partition has Firefox 3.5.15 on it
<dwatkins> blast from the past
<popey> "v.3.5.15, released October 27th, 2010
<popey> "
<dwatkins> I wish I'd never given away my tiny mouse, it was rather handy for presnetations
<popey> guess what the first popup was when I connected it to the net was?
<davmor2> popey: Antivirus update?
<dwatkins> you are using page with some insecure content?
<mungbean> install chrome?
<popey> nope
<lornajane> it looks like you're writing a letter?
<popey> hah
<mungbean> install ie8
<dwatkins> your browser is out of date?
<popey> well, thats try dwatkins and it did tell me when i opened ff, but what's the first thing that nagged me on windows login?
<mungbean> your OS is not legal?
<popey> haha, no
<popey> and I am offended you think it might be! âº
<dwatkins> "You appear to be using an ancient and unsupported proprietary operating system, would you like to purchase Windows 8 or just download Ubuntu for free?"
<mungbean> windows changes its mind sometimes
<davmor2> popey: You're on XP still stupid install windows 8 now?
<dwatkins> yeah, hardware changes can force a relicense
<popey> true dat
<popey> i used to use this daily on my commute, cracking little laptop
<directhex> protip: windows 8 upgrade prices will more than double in 2 days' time
<directhex> if you think you'll ever want it, buy today, not next week
<popey> \o/
<directhex> until the end of jan, win8 pro upgrades are Â£24.99 if downloaded. not 100% sure what the UK price will be on friday, but if the US pricing is an indication, then Â£125
<directhex> this is, of course, how microsoft have been able to claim to investors that they sold a record number of win8 licenses in 2012q4
<mungbean> have an interview in a few minutes, since my job is going away to be replaced by a very simlar looking one :S
<dwatkins> also, if you buy Windows 8, get the Windows Media Centre upgrade before 31st Jan for free
<davmor2> popey: did we get to the bottom of what the first popup was?
<popey> you did not
<davmor2> popey: there are updates this system will restart in 10......9.....
<popey> nope âº
<davmor2> popey: I still think it was av updates :D
<popey> nope
<davmor2> popey: No wait it was the anti virus annoucing you had a virus
<davmor2> popey: new hardware because it found the mouse
<popey> nope
<davmor2> popey: BSOD
<dwatkins> your resolution is set to a default abysmal value?
<popey> I should put you out of your misery âº
<dwatkins> this is fun ;)
<popey> ok
<dwatkins> Come play "How Many Errors Can A Windows Machine Have?" on #ubuntu-uk....
<davmor2> popey: minecraft has an update
<popey> hah, no way this can run minecraft
<dwatkins> did it install the driver for the hard disk?
<popey> no new hardware
<dwatkins> or simply tell you it had to reboot...
<dwatkins> "just finished installing something, now reboot, even though you just did that"
<davmor2> popey: windows was not shut down properly did you want to report the issue?
<popey> it wasn't anything to do with windows itself
<davmor2> popey: 2010 you say was it a calendar popup for the lucid release party?
<dwatkins> Steam is offline
<popey> haha
<davmor2> yeah steam recommends the use of Ubuntu would be the other one :D
<dwatkins> "mplayer couldn't download an update, the website has been compromised" (I get this on my home PC)
<dwatkins> davmor2: that would be amusing
<davmor2> popey: You have 3,000,000 unread messages in your inbox?
<dwatkins> an advert for viagra?
<popey> bet if I post it on twitter someone will get it instantly âº
<dwatkins> yeah, twitter has more users :-p
<popey> hah
<dwatkins> so it wasn't a message from Windows
<dwatkins> was it a message from an application?
<davmor2> popey: windows messenger couldn't connect or it has updated to skype
<davmor2> popey: there are possibly more windows users on twitter too :D
<dwatkins> popey: would you like to join Google+?
<dwatkins> are we even close, popey?
<popey> dwatkins: join G+?
<popey> I'm on it
<davmor2> popey: Was it you're using that ubuntu again aren't you and then xp strops off in a huff?
<popey> you're all wrong âº
<davmor2> popey: apparently you are late for the recording of UUPC season 3 episode 6?
<dwatkins> popey: true, but you might have a secondary gmail account which you hadn't already G+ified
<dwatkins> so, how wrong are we, popey? is it an application?
<mungbean> usually first nag messages are adobe, java, windows update,
<mungbean> and antivirus
<mungbean> all within 2 mins of boot :(
<mungbean> which is why my wife moved to ubuntu
<davmor2> it'll be the java 7 update with the complete breakage then I bet
<awilkins> Can't get a straight answer for this through trivial searching - monthly cost for a web host with 500Mbit/s bandwidth?
<dwatkins> awilkins: a friend of mine linked me to this recently: http://www.lowendbox.com/
<popey> finally davmor2 gets it
<dwatkins> tada
<davmor2> popey: mungbean pointed me in the right direction
<dwatkins> awilkins: this list might also be useful: http://www.top10webhosting.com/
<awilkins> Heh, people throwing around requirements like "200 people should be able to download 500MB in less than 30 minutes simultaneously"
<cocoa117> has anyone got home server and setup a file creating/modification rule based on the existing Linux POSIX permission?
<cocoa117> e.g. all the family member have read access to others folder, and all the file created or copied to the file server
<cocoa117> will have default group
<cocoa117> so all the others can read it
<mungbean> i have discovered that the usefulness of support you get in irc is related to your username. if you are called guest58585 then generally people are a bit ruder
<popey> bet you get faster answers if your name is "claire"
<popey> and probably more patronising ones
<mungbean> yaeh
<mungbean> present company excepted of course
<davmor2> bigcalm: so are you now officially a cat owner now ?
<directhex> i am on sunday
<directhex> caaaaaat
<davmor2> I'm a surrogate Skye/Sky owner I think, I have to show every image to my wife so keep up the good work popey :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: you could get your own cat ;)
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: we are in a block of council property between 2 main roads so it would have to be a house cat which we don't think is fair plus all the cleaning, plus the budgie plus if it got out it would likely get killed by the foxes/road/traintrack etc etc
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: ok, that makes sense :)
<solarcloud_3srcn> Just for anyone interested #trisquel-dev  , is having it first meeting in ages at 5pm UTC about the free O/S http://www.mail-archive.com/trisquel-devel@listas.trisquel.info/msg00671.html
<MartijnVdS> what is it?
<solarcloud_3srcn> trisquel.
<MartijnVdS> what is it?
<solarcloud_3srcn> www.trisquel.info
<MartijnVdS> I already have a distribution for my home system
<solarcloud_3srcn> fine.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Seen this? http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/3158
<TheOpenSourcerer> 15,000 linux computers ;-)
<MartijnVdS> good news :)
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: + course materials
<TheOpenSourcerer> yeah
<AlanBell> evening all
<brobostigon> evening AlanBell
<AlanBell> anyone tried broadway recently, which is putting gtk applications into a browser?
<brobostigon> no, first time i have heard if it.
 * AlanBell is upgrading to Raring
<Azelphur> Hmm, anyone here familiar with sixaxis? I'm having issues
<Azelphur> I plug my controller in, run sudo sixpair, it detects my controller, then I run sixad --start, it says press the PS button now, which I do
<Azelphur> and then..nothing happens
<daftykins> Azelphur: any landlord news sir?
<Azelphur> daftykins: a little, he finally sent out a plumber for the boiler and got that sorted, still leaving pretty much everything else however
<daftykins> =/
<daftykins> not even any comments on it?
<Azelphur> I pointed out the door on the washing machine was broken, so he said he'll just take the washing machine away today and I'll buy a new one, which was "nice" of him
<Azelphur> but then he didn't even turn up to take it away, >.<
<daftykins> what a todger
<Azelphur> nope
<Azelphur> still got all the same issues pretty much, still ignoring everything
<daftykins> =[
<Azelphur> but at least he came out for the boiler so we are one step in the right direction, if I can just get him to sort out a letterbox I'll be happier
<daftykins> he shall be the first to die in our new world
<Azelphur> not having a letterbox is frustrating as hell
<Azelphur> you order something online, but you don't know when it's coming because most things are 3-5 days, you miss the delivery and they can't put the note through the door so you can't go and collect it.
<Klettbar> why haven't you got one
<Klettbar> how come
<Klettbar> the simpler things
<Klettbar> like a laptop without  a battery
<Azelphur> Klettbar: landlord keeps saying he'll do it and then doesn't
<Azelphur> :<
<Klettbar> they should sell bateeries and build laptops around them
<Klettbar> maybe you can do it yourself and get a refund
<Klettbar> proposing that you can
<Azelphur> yea, we was going to go for legal advice on monday, but he turned up with a plumber on monday and actually made some progress
<Azelphur> the plumber was really nice, the landlord had only scheduled him to fix the boiler
<Azelphur> but I explained how I had a leaking radiator and tap that the landlord was being so troublesome about, so the plumber did those too (yay)
<daftykins> Azelphur: neat :D
<Azelphur> my boiler had him stumped for ages, he took the entire thing apart and had to read the manual before we figured out what was going on
<Azelphur> apparently after 19 hours it disables itself and doesn't turn on again unless you do a reset procedure
<Azelphur> and because the radiator leaked, it depressurised and turned the thing off, by the time I figured out that it was off, 19 hours had already passed I guess
 * AlanBell is on raring
<Klettbar> plumbing is serious stuff
<Azelphur> indeed \o/
<Azelphur> but yea, stuff is going wrong faster than it's getting fixed
<daftykins> welcome to houses
<daftykins> :/
<Azelphur> there's a pipe on the side of the building that has burst due to the cold weather now, it spews out water
<Azelphur> funny enough right on top of the previous problem where the gutters are broken
<Azelphur> so it's like, double waterfall
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> what kind of pipe?
<Azelphur> I'm not sure exactly, its not constantly flowing, maybe a drain from a sink or something.
<daftykins> you got any pics? that place sounds... rundown
<Azelphur> I got a fun pic of the most recent issue
<Azelphur> the oven went supernova
<Klettbar> have you found out where the main valve is
<Klettbar> to stop all input water in in case of
<Klettbar> i knwo what i mean
<Azelphur> I put some burgers in there, used an eggtimer so I knew what was going on, first 10 minutes were fine, over the next 5 minutes it literally turned into a smoke machine and filled the entire room
<Azelphur> https://www.dropbox.com/s/icrftpaljdo5vvq/2013-01-28%2014.44.55.jpg?m
<daftykins> Klettbar: stopcock yeah :)
<Azelphur> Klettbar: nope, perhaps I should do :P
<daftykins> whoa
<Klettbar> first thing
<Klettbar> teh save ass stopcock
<daftykins> that looks like some tiny ducting above the extractor fan, if that is one
<daftykins> how long did that take to clear? D:
<Azelphur> daftykins: when I moved in the previous tenants had left a frying pan full of fat/oil in the oven, we cleaned it out properly, but I figure they somehow got oil inside the oven, so when the oven reaches full temp, boom.
<Azelphur> a few hours.
<daftykins> a trap :(
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> perhaps to punish the sucky landlord
<Azelphur> literally it did all that in a matter of minutes, I was coming down and checking on it every 5 minutes
<Klettbar> what the best second hand laptop buy deal on ebay
<Klettbar> is
<Klettbar> changing topic
<Azelphur> Klettbar: look for dell refurbs, there's lots on there that are pretty cheap and have warranty.
<daftykins> i've heard bad things about electronics on ebay
<Azelphur> also, you might want to check the dell outlet, same thing.
<Azelphur> I buy a lot of electronics from ebay
<Klettbar> they say dell is not that reliable
<Azelphur> Klettbar: you can quite safely find anyone to say anything is unreliable.
<Azelphur> especially with laptop, everyone has a brand they hate
<Klettbar> ranking
<daftykins> ^ +1
<Klettbar> panasonic
<daftykins> if you look for bad press you shall find
<Klettbar> toshiba?
<Klettbar> ibm?
<Klettbar> i like hp
<Klettbar> buying laptop is liek getting a girlfriend
<Klettbar> you shoudl li?
<Klettbar> no no
<Klettbar> panasonic are sturdy but look a bit too cold
<daftykins> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21252362
<daftykins> that's pretty ^_^
<shauno> same old same old from this pov  (west coast ireland, pretty dependable blanket cloud coverage)
<daftykins> ah yeah you were in the Galway area weren't you?
<shauno> yeah
<shauno> there was a similar one last winter I think.  and again the same great 'shield wall' of cloud
<daftykins> i'm in Guernsey so no snow here :<
<shauno> I'm just jealous.  I miss having seasons
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> is it that bad constantly over there?
<shauno> it's pretty consistent.  we tend to get a clearer spell around easter, and usually another in the summer
<daftykins> ouch
<shauno> but I believe our driest month of the year is still 15 days precipitation
<daftykins> wow, how does anyone stay anything but miserable there?
<shauno> alcohol :D
<daftykins> XD
<shauno> you just get used to it I guess.  like when I was in michigan, 4 months of snow was normal.  4 days cripples the UK, but when it's normal, you just ignore it and carry on
<Azelphur> Anyone know how to get dualshock3's working in Ubuntu via bluetooth?
<daftykins> yeah i bet it's a laugh seeing the UK 'coping' :)
<daftykins> Azelphur: i see you tried xbmc which would've been my idea, i think some of those lot use the PS3 controllers as remotes, maybe the xbmc forum has something?
<daftykins> otherwise i was sure directhex or popey had played with one at some point on Linux perhaps 0o
<Azelphur> daftykins: yea, I've tried lots of documentation and following guides and am just not getting anywhere :<
<popey> not I
<popey> I have GC and PS2 controllers on my PC
<daftykins> ooh-err, i tells a lie - apologies
<popey> âº
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> frustrating because sixpair sees it, but sixad won't see me pressing the PS button.
<daftykins> how wude
<Azelphur> indeed
<daftykins> computers eh, sometimes i wonder why we bother ^_^
<directhex> i had a python-based driver for the ps3 remote (not pad)
<daftykins> ah-har
 * solarcloud_3srcn ate too many chips tonite. Computing now seems pointless to him. Please encourage solarcloud_3scrn to get back on his little horse.....
<popey> we should all go and live in the forest
<popey> http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/history/2013/01/for-40-years-this-russian-family-was-cut-off-from-all-human-contact-unaware-of-world-war-ii/
<daftykins> wow
<popey> very interesting read
<popey> and sad
<solarcloud_3srcn> I wonder if Radio would have corrupted them, if they'd had one ??
<solarcloud_3srcn> There is a guy in czech that lives like that ... http://dudmanovi.cz/#&panel1-3
<directhex> tame the noble savage!
<daftykins> omg landscape why are you causing such regular disk activity =|
<dwatkins> 'The family's principal entertainment, the Russian journalist Vasily Peskov noted, "was for everyone to recount their dreams."' - dreams can be pretty spectacular, though
<dwatkins> I wonder if that's the case if you've been isolated from the world for four decades, though.
<directhex> "i dreamed we had 940 lbs of potatoes. it was good."
<daftykins> ;)
<dwatkins> haha, perhaps spectacular to them
<daftykins> i'd imagine they're far more creative than mine
<daftykins> i often dream of IM conversation =|
<daftykins> i see the text move upward as if watching a screen
<dwatkins> I don't even remember my dreams very often, but some people I know have vivid dreams with exciting adventures.
<directhex> daftykins, you're dreaming right now!
<dwatkins> daftykins: that's not a dream, you just fell asleep on the keyboard ;)
<daftykins> ;)
<dwatkins> "in 1961 it snowed in June" that's Russia for you, I guess
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> ooh-err
<daftykins> i can see how the geologists want to offer them things
<daftykins> but do they not see they're also kind of... ruining them step by step =/
<dwatkins> I wondered that, but they're not aboriginal people untouched by technology, they were just sort of forgotten
<dwatkins> well, they ran away, but they separated themselves from the world, as opposed to never having been part of it
<daftykins> depends if they choose to remain that way i guess
<dwatkins> yeah, I imagine it should be up to them (as a group or individually) to decide if they stay living out there or go somewhere else, knowing what they then did.
 * dwatkins hasn't got to the part about their subsequent fate yet
 * daftykins aims not to spoil :>
<dwatkins> certainly goes to show that you can do a lot without metal
<daftykins> indeed
<daftykins> necessity being the mother of invention :>
<dwatkins> I can't imagine how you would plane a log without a saw
<dwatkins> I guess he used stone
<popey> nn chaps
<popey> enjoy sweet dreams of living in russian forests
<dwatkins> later popey
<daftykins> popey: o/
<dwatkins> I dream of not being entranced by television
<daftykins> thanks for the link
<dwatkins> fascinating stuff, yeah
<popey> np
<popey> yeah
<popey> lots of further comments on hn
<popey> http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5134023
<popey> links to other info / videos / pictures
<dwatkins> I'm reminded of a thread on reddit recently which asked what people from the 1950s would think of modern technology, my favorite comment was along the lines of "they would find it impossible to understand that we have the entirety of human knowlege at our fingertips, and yet we use our phones to watch videos of cats and people falling over"
<directhex> cat pictures!
<dwatkins> them too
<dwatkins> http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/15yaap/if_someone_from_the_1950s_suddenly_appeared_today/ - "I possess a device, in my pocket, that is capable of accessing the entirety of information known to man.
<dwatkins> I use it to look at pictures of cats and get in arguments with strangers."
<daftykins> =]
<daftykins> can't stand reddit, but wow the Queen meeting all those US presidents
<daftykins> epic.
<dwatkins> I reckon she's immortal, and dyes her hair.
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> benefits to not speaking much
<daftykins> i bet she's an IRC'er
<dwatkins> perhaps she's here right now
<dwatkins> evening ma'am *bows*
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-30
<Azelphur> whelp, looks like I'm screwed on the sixaxis controller front
<Azelphur> talked to the developer and it seems like I broke it, and it's not likely to get fixed till next month earliest, any other ideas?
<daftykins> for a gaming controller?
<Azelphur> well, for a way to make the controllers I have already work
<daftykins> what set do you have to pick from?
<Azelphur> would hate to throw Â£40 down the toilet :p
<Azelphur> daftykins: I have GOIGAME PS3 controllers (bluetooth)
<Azelphur> I know they physically work because they talk to sixaxis controller on android.
<Azelphur> and I'd hazard a guess that they'd work fine with motioninjoy on windows too
<Azelphur> but the Linux side seems to have me stumped :P
<daftykins> i like cables
<daftykins> :)
<Azelphur> hehe, cables are annoying when you got 4 controllers and want to sit a decent distance from a 55" tv
<daftykins> what's 4 player for the HTPC?
<Azelphur> daftykins: every emulator game ever.
<daftykins> ah-har
<Azelphur> also hedgewars
<daftykins> ah yeah i've only ever used a PS2 controller with a USB converter on the PC
<daftykins> i have an xbox360 otherwise
<daftykins> i have no time for old games ;x
<Azelphur> hehe
<Azelphur> I might have to do something silly like run windows in a vm and pass the input back to Linux
<daftykins> Azelphur: latency++ ?
<Azelphur> indeed :(
<daftykins> first world problems O_.
<Azelphur> yep
<Azelphur> Anyone care to drop in and help me with my PS3 controller woes? http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=12481756#post12481756 :P
<daftykins> was the dev just stumped then?
<Azelphur> pretty much, he just said he doesn't really know and is busy working on other projects atm and that I should ping him in a month or so to see if he can fix it then
<daftykins> heh, how odd
<Azelphur> indeed, you'd think more people would buy these things
<Azelphur> $14 kickass bluetooth controller...why are we not buying all the things and making them work
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> i try to avoid bluetooth
<Azelphur> I wonder what stops them being plug n play like other things are
<daftykins> it's one of those techs that doesn't work in a hurry when you really want it to
<Azelphur> the wiimote stuff I used before was pretty simple
<Azelphur> xD
<daftykins> Sony? :)
 * Azelphur shrugs
<Azelphur> I don't mind too much in a hurry, but I would like to get it going
<daftykins> y'know it's that classic 'i wanna transfer files via BT'
<daftykins> hellz no says mr. computer
<Azelphur> lol
<popey> Morning
<diplo> Morning
<knightwise> hey diplo popey :)
<knightwise> how are you gus
<knightwise> guys
<popey> GREAT!
<diplo> I'm ok thanks, yourself knightwise ?
<diplo> Brought my Revo to work today, reinstall with 12.04 and XBMC Frodo I'm thinking
<mungbean> does anyone have knowledge/experience of java web framework spring or struts?
<AlanBell> mungbean: Alfresco uses spring
<mungbean> AlanBell: i need to give a talk where i reference those products, and suggest best of breed etc
<mungbean> don't know where to start tbh
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<mungbean> do vmware provide for free? what's their motive?
<AlanBell> they want to sell their datacenter products
<AlanBell> mungbean: I don't know a great deal about spring, Alfresco is the only thing I know that uses it
<brobostigon> any idea, where to look for a radar type sensor, that connects to usb, and will be detected by a nominally standard gnu-linux debian . ?
<JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<brobostigon> o/
<JamesTait> Don't look now, but, where I am at least, it's very spring-like this morning.
<brobostigon> sunny, blue sky.
<brobostigon> and looks like it will be all day, according to bbc weather.
<JamesTait> Yep. Not blowing a gale. Mild temperature. I didn't even wear a coat for the school run, let alone a hat and gloves.
<brobostigon> it is blowing a gale here.
<JamesTait> I thought our conservatory was going to take off yesterday.
<brobostigon> yes, it was quite breezy.
<BigRedS> I'm after an smtp client for use with Mutt that'll queue up mail while offline and go on to send it when it's online again, anyone got any suggestions?
<BigRedS> I need to be able to use different servers and auth for different mail, though, so something that can do that (like msmtp can) would be good
<popey> anyone got a 12.04 machine with nvidia video card handy/
<popey> ?
<SuperMatt> nope
<SuperMatt> 13.04 all the way baby
<popey> nvm, I'll install it here
<SuperMatt> all righty
<JamesTait> BigRedS, masqmail might do it. I looked at it once, many moons ago, but never tried to install and configure it.
<JamesTait> brobostigon, I might have spoken too soon about the gales.
<brobostigon> ohwell, :(
<ali1234> ubuntu kernel is compiled with amiga partition table support and amiga FFS as a module
<ali1234> i didn't expect that
<popey> âº
<ali1234> sadly, kpartx doesn't seem to understand anything other than dos partitions
<directhex> patches welcome!
<directhex> gpt support in kpartx would be smart
<davmor2> Morning all
<BigRedS> JamesTait: ta!
<JamesTait> BigRedS, let me know if it works out, I might finally give it a try on my laptop.
<BigRedS> JamesTait: I'll have a poke at it tonight; might need prodding to remind you of my success :)
<BigRedS> or failure...
<JamesTait> BigRedS, not a problem. :)
<ali1234> directhex: kpartx supports GPT already
<mungbean> how do i show recently added bookmarks in chrome?
<mungbean> meh found it, maybe i added them but they didn't sync :(
<popey> are they not in chrome://bookmarks/ ?
<popey> oh
<popey> heh, I have zero bookmarks in any browser
<dwatkins> I tend to write a html file and use that as my homepage
<dwatkins> much quicker, doesn't depend on me being online etc.
<dwatkins> perhaps I'll include an image to test whether I'm online
<davmor2> mungbean: if you are syncing to and from a tablet/phone and desktop you may be surprised where the mobile devices stick them
<mungbean> got 2 job offers on the table not sure which to take :S
<popey> flip a coin âº
<mungbean> a weighted one?
<mungbean> all along i've said i don't want job A (which is what i'm currently doing as a secondment) but rather Job B (some unknown element)
<mungbean> but when it comes to it...getting cold feet
<popey> they're both within the same org?
<Azelphur> flip a coin is actually a good trick, it's a psychology thing, if you're torn between two choices, flip a coin xD
<mungbean> yes popey
<mungbean> by nature i choose the safe option (i.e. known quantity)
<mungbean> but under massive transformation we are losing good people and new tech is being deployed by numpties
<mungbean> on the plus side its good tech to work with
<mungbean> however the other job B gives me a warm feeling about helping people and maximising use of apps and technology for people
<mungbean> quandry :S
<BigRedS> Azelphur: the trick isn't to just go on what the result of the coin flip saysm, but to ponder your reaction to it :)
<BigRedS> of course, that way you might still never actually decide
<Azelphur> BigRedS: indeed
<davmor2> mungbean: the question is, is the money the same? if so then the only difference is the way the job makes you feel, I can tell you happier is better than sad but known.
<Azelphur> http://pastebin.com/DwWJGcgu why is this patch doing this?
<davmor2> Azelphur: knock the -bin off the patch name maybe
<BigRedS> There's a guy two desks down reading up on btrfs. I keep hearing "Oh wow, that's awesome" "We really need to be doing this"  etc.
<BigRedS> might have to experiment with this...
<Azelphur> davmor2: nope still same issue
<mungbean> money is the same davmor2
<mungbean> my heart says jobB, head says i know how to do jobA. i'm not really a risk taker
<bigcalm> Good afternoon peeps :)
<bigcalm> davmor2: no, still just 'looking after it' for our neighbour. Neighbour is providing food and vet coverage
<davmor2> bigcalm: yeah but they are home now :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: hello by the way how is your holiday?
<bigcalm> davmor2: hence the ''. It's a bit odd
<davmor2> bigcalm: also more importantly how is the new pc
<bigcalm> davmor2: hi :) I'm getting used to it
<bigcalm> davmor2: hasn't yet been purchased
<bigcalm> davmor2: I was able to get a quote from a Dell business sales person. Waiting for my company to place the order
<davmor2> bigcalm: man the way you were talking you'd got it
<bigcalm> davmor2: for some reason, the quote I was given is less than the website stated
<bigcalm> davmor2: ah, no. I just like to be prepared. Will buy a 120ish GB SSD at some point in prep.
<Azelphur> Anyone know who I might ask about bluez stuff?
<Azelphur> #bluez-users is dead
<mungbean> in irrsi, i use alt+num to flick channels. if i have >10 channels, i do alt+0 then alt-arrow to move along - how do i jump to 13 directly?
<bigcalm>  /win 13
<bigcalm> mungbean: there may be a plug-in to let you map more alt+<key>
<mungbean> ok thanks, /win 13 is longer than alt ->
<daubers> Afternoon
<popey> mungbean: alt+e
<popey> the row below 1-0
<popey> goes all the way up to alt+o
<mungbean> wow great :D
<mungbean> thanks
<mungbean> irc win today with all my questions
<mungbean> (except the job one)
<popey> with the job one I'd compile a big spreadsheet with weighted pros and cons
<popey> but thats just me
<mungbean> thats a methodical approach i tend to agree with. i've been complaining about this job since last year, i think i know what to do
<mungbean> i also pray about it, which i know you don't do ;)
<popey> hah
<solarcloud_3srcn> Go Jonathan !! http://www.indiegogo.com/sonar/x/2125880?c=home
<diplo> popey: You about ?
<Flex> hi guys, im trying to run a script via a cronjob and am setting the env variables within the script itself
<Flex> do i need to source the script itself?
<Flex> . /path/to/script/script.sh
<Flex> ?
<popey> diplo: ya
<dwatkins> source a script within itself?
<dwatkins> how are you setting variables, and what shell does the script use, Flex?
<Flex> dwatkins: bash and export
<dwatkins> should be fine then, from what I remember
<Flex> to do
<Flex> . /path/to/script/script.sh
<dwatkins> I mean just setting a variable at the beginning of the script then using, printing it, you shouldn't need to include the script itself as that would be recursive.
<dwatkins> Flex: for example: http://hastebin.com/nucacoyaxi.bash
<diplo> popey: Sorry my session seems to be broken on other machine
<diplo> Just wondering if you're still running Revo with XBMC
<diplo> if so, any recommendations before I reinstall, mines been on for 3+ yyears now i think
<diplo> :)
<Flex> am running xbmc on my revo
<diplo> What are you running on it Flex ?
<Flex> os?
<diplo> Mines still running 9.04, want to upgrade to Frodo and update OS as well
<diplo> yeah
<Flex> win 7 a) because i use silver light b) the missus cant use linux
<diplo> ah, no win7 license so stay with ubuntu i think, justnot sure which wm to go with
<dwatkins> fluxbox for teh win! ;)
<diplo> heh
<popey> diplo: yes, my "behind the telly" box is xbmc on a revo
<popey> I think it's xbmcbuntu
<diplo> ah I was just checking that out now actually
<Flex> diplo: who needs a license ;)
<diplo> :)
<Flex> dwatkins: not sure if that applies when running from cron though....?
<dwatkins> Flex: hmm, you might need to account for other environment variables (e.g. PATH) not being set, but I don't know much more than that
<popey> Google Nexus 4 is back "in stock" (ships in 1-2 weeks)Â https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_4_16gb
<davmor2> ohhhhhhh rotate on the nexus 7
<Azelphur> I already got mine on my desk
<Azelphur> :P
<popey> âº
<popey> just ordered one âº
<Azelphur> welcome to the club
<Azelphur> popey: rofl, and already my friend is like LOAN ME MONEY SO I CAN BUY NEXUS 4
<Azelphur> that happened fast
<davmor2> Azelphur: 400% interest see if still wants to borrow it then ;)
<Azelphur> haha
<Azelphur> he's a good mate of mine and his paycheck comes in tomorrow, so loaned him the money xD
<Flex> what are you seeing? ERROR: Server returned error for?
<Azelphur> We couldn't complete your purchase because of a technical issue.
<Azelphur> Details of the problem below:
<Azelphur> Sorry, we were unable to process this request. The order has been automatically cancelled and you will not be charged for the purchase. Please try again later.
 * Azelphur facedesks
<Azelphur> woo, my friend managed to get one
<KungFuPanda> ?
<Azelphur> !
<KungFuPanda> :), I using network tool scan my port, only 80, 8088 are open. how could I remote connect it ?
<KungFuPanda> ssh, remote desktop ?
<DJones> !ssh | KungFuPanda
<lubotu3> KungFuPanda: SSH is the Secure SHell protocol, see: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SSH for client usage. PuTTY is an SSH client for Windows; see: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/ for it's homepage. See also !scp (Secure CoPy) and !sshd (Secure SHell Daemon)
<DJones> That should get you started with ssh
<KungFuPanda> but my port 22 is closed
<KungFuPanda> can I use ssh by port 80 or 8088 ?
<dwatkins> I've run ssh on different ports before, so long as server and client agree and the port is open on the firewall etc. yeah
<KungFuPanda> if I use port 80, is that will affect my browsing ?
<davmor2> KungFuPanda: have you actually install the server for ssh which would open port 22?
<KungFuPanda> yes
<davmor2> KungFuPanda: are you running a firewall
<KungFuPanda> I tried ssh localhost, which success
<KungFuPanda> no
<KungFuPanda> ufw inactive
<KungFuPanda> the port be closed by router, I guess, I got public static ip
<DJones> Have you told your router to forward external requests to the machine with ssh running?
<KungFuPanda> no
<KungFuPanda> I try to avoid doing that, if I can find a solution.
<KungFuPanda> can one port 80 provide 2 service ? http and ssh  at the same time ?
<DJones> This should help you configure your router to forward whichever port you decide to forward to the machine running ssh http://portforward.com/routers.htm
<dwatkins> opening port 80 on your router for something to connect to from an external address is separate from connecting to an external website on port 80
<DJones> If you use a non-standard port (ie not port 22) you'll need to configure ssh to listen on that port, the link from lubotu3 should give you details of how to do that
<KungFuPanda> thanks all , for you great help, I will try now.
<czajkowski> xnox: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Fosdem/2013
<dwatkins> http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Booting-Linux-using-UEFI-can-brick-Samsung-laptops-1793958.html
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: go go Samsung firmware
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: UEFI is a pain in the arse fullstop
<MartijnVdS> but microsoft!
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: Nope even MS from USB isn't entirely foolproof, from cd/dvd is fine but then so is Ubuntu but more and more devices don't have drives now
<MartijnVdS> But Microsoft made UEFI required, right?
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: They tried to be clever, in order to speed up the boot process they do a search for secure uefi devices but do it occasionally faster than they give power to the usb ports meaning sometimes your device has no power and UEFI is marching on regardless
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: and MS made secureboot a requirement which therefore made UEFI a requirement
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: it does however mean that I have no license key sticker as the license key is the machine itself which I can see being an issue if you wanted to install windows 9 on that box :D
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: well if Win8 can read it, Win9 would be able to as well, right?
<AlanBell> czajkowski: \o/ http://blog.ubuntu-women.org/2013/01/ubuntu-women-full-circle-follow-up-with-laura-czajkowski/
<MartijnVdS> and the retail/upgrade versions come with keys
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: but if it depends on a different secureboot key you might be stuffed unless you upgrade your hardware :)
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: Well.. or you can buy a patch from the manufacturer or MS of course!
<MartijnVdS> for Â£a_lot
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: effectively turning your machine into a replaceable device whenever MS upgrade which would make the manufacturers happy
<czajkowski> AlanBell: :)
 * AlanBell is hanging out on G+ and talking about lenses and dashes and stuff with Jono Bacon and some others
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CBeQur7VBDM#!
<brobostigon> is it possible, for my mums android tablet, when trying to download xmbc from mirror.ox.ac.uk to intterupt the whole wifi we are connected to?
<brobostigon> it seems some what implausable.
<brobostigon> but seems to be the only factor.
<popey> brobostigon: eh?
<brobostigon> popey: the wifi seems to die, as soon as i try and download xmbc from that, it is very weird.
<popey> fun
<brobostigon> not at all.
<solarcloud> popey, Nice question for Jono, Also that nexus 4 link doesn't work in the Isle of Man :-( ... does it still work for you, now ??
<popey> yup
<AlanBell> http://www.theopensourcerer.com/2013/01/ubuntu-smart-scopes/
<popey> tweet/G+ it and I'll retweet etc
<MartijnVdS> popey: about that :) Do you have some magic client that puts everything on G+ and twitter at the same time, or do you copy/paste everything you post?
<popey> yes
<MartijnVdS> ...
<popey> \o/ dots
<MartijnVdS> Do you copy/paste?
<popey> yes
<MartijnVdS> So no magic client? :(
<popey> I often type stuff in twitter first to fit the 140 chars, then paste elsewhere
<popey> and I do the same on PC or phone or tablet
<MartijnVdS> popey: I was wondering, because your twitter and G+ feeds are _very_ similar :)
<popey> âº
<Azelphur> woooooooo, sixaxis developer fixed the bug for my gasia controllers
<Azelphur> let the emulators on htpc commence \o/
<BigRedS> I have no audio on 13.04 :( Alsamixers not muted, what else should I be checking?
<dutchie> are the speakers plugged in
<BigRedS> Ah, no, I've done that before, too. This is a laptop though
#ubuntu-uk 2013-01-31
<solarcloud> Morning .. had a dream, but I've forgotten it, damn !
<dwatkins> I had a dream, and then I woke up.
<popey> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/gllug/2013-January/080625.html
<popey> anyone going to that tonight?
<JamesTait> Morning all! :-)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<dwatkins> ello ello
<bigcalm> aHOY
<bigcalm> Ahoy
<brobostigon> morning JamesTait , dwatkins and bigcalm
<JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
<bigcalm> Getting surprised in Half-Life and my fingers flail about. Looks like caps-lock was a casualty this time
<bigcalm> Hi kids :)
<JamesTait> BigRedS, did you get a chance to play with masqmail last night?
<davmor2> Morning all
<Laney> it's so annoying that the bathroom light kills my DAB radio :(
<bigcalm> Laney: Using a laptop wifi in the vicinity of our DAB radio kills it
<bigcalm> Hi davmor2
<davmor2> bigcalm: how is your building of the Millennium Falcon coming along
<bigcalm> davmor2: trying my best not to do it all in 1 day. It's been 1 set of packets per day so far
<davmor2> bigcalm: so you'll finish Friday then if you started Monday
<bigcalm> davmor2: Started Tuesday evening (that was when Hayley's brother surprised me with it as a gift)
<bigcalm> davmor2: and as we're off to my parents in Worcester tomorrow until Sunday... Might get a few more days out of it yet :D
<davmor2> bigcalm: Yeah Sue did the same to me just after Christmas there was a Knock at the door and a Huge Box from Denmark
<davmor2> bigcalm: turns out it was to justify the mixer she just bought :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: Hayley got me the X-wing for xmas. When her brother saw it, he instantly got hooked on building them. I think that he's just ordered the Super Star Destroyer
<bigcalm> davmor2: haha
<bigcalm> http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/Super-Star-Destroyer-10221
<popey> golly
<davmor2> bigcalm: hang on a minute your future brother in law paid Â£150 for a lego box set for you?  He ordered it from 2 places and thought he had cancelled one didn't he ;)
<bigcalm> popey: indeedie
<davmor2> bigcalm: did you see the uber deluxe version of the Millennium Falcon?
<bigcalm> davmor2: heh. He said that he gave Hayley Â£120, so I'm guessing that he found it cheaper
<bigcalm> davmor2: I've been trying to not look at lego kits yet. I can see a lot of money being thrown at them
<davmor2> bigcalm: the little globe ones are fun
<davmor2> bigcalm: no that is about right to be fair 150 was a round up as a figure
<bigcalm> Ah
<davmor2> bigcalm: http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/10179_Ultimate_Collector%27s_Millennium_Falcon
<davmor2> 311 pages to build it 5000 pieces that would keep you going for a couple of weeks
<davmor2> popey: ^ you know you want it too
<popey> shush
<davmor2> popey: I'll take that as a yes then :)
<bigcalm> I've just moved my python photo booth project from my private gitlab to be on github. If anybody wants to help :) https://github.com/bigcalm/python_photo_booth
<bigcalm> Scribbles: https://github.com/bigcalm/python_photo_booth/wiki/Scribbles
<ali1234> is that for like a real photobooth then?
<ali1234> like you get in a train station
<ali1234> if so why aren't you writing it in QML?
<ali1234> it's ideal for touch interface
 * bigcalm goes to play with Lego
<Laney> i hope that guy has put his whale vomit in a safe place
<czajkowski> aloha
<popey> http://sourceware.org/ml/glibc-cvs/2013-q1/msg00115.html
<lubotu3> sourceware.org bug 2013 in libc "memccpy() gives inconsistent results on mmapped files" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
<popey> uh, no
<ali1234> lolwat popey
<popey> good isnt it
<ali1234> why do people write stupid #defines like that anyway?
<ali1234> it just encourages bugs and makes the source harder to read
<ali1234> still at least it only has to be fixed in one place
<ali1234> here is the unmangled URL of the commit if anyone cares: http://www.sourceware.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=glibc.git&a=commitdiff&h=dd930cc57100377d02a45b9113d6a3dc93136cbc
<ali1234> that constant seems used in only one place
<AlanBell> that is rather special
<AlanBell> good job it isn't in anything important. Oh, wait
<davmor2> czajkowski: morning prod
<Laney> om nom found a packet of sensations at the back of the cupboard
<dwatkins> I hope they havn't passed their best-before date, Laney ;)
<Laney> they have actually
<Laney> 19-01-13
<Laney> still DELICIOUS
<dwatkins> I'm sure that's just a guideline, anyway.
 * Laney drops dead
<solarcloud> Today on my Lubuntu netbook ans wireless headphones I discovered BBC Radio 4 and the myriad of programmes that are on the website. It all seems a bit Posh or Upper Middle Class to me, but I like it in my ear ..
<BigRedS> radio4 is awesome
<BigRedS> but, yeah, if you're youngetr than about 40 finding other listeners is a bit like being a member of a secret resistance movement
<solarcloud> I am a member of OSIN.
<BigRedS> you can't straight up ask somebody, 'cause if they're not aware of the goodness they'll think you're a bit weird
<BigRedS> OSIN?
<solarcloud> Open Source Intelligence Network by RDS.
<KrimZon_2> when I started dual booting with a newer version of ubuntu, it made the newer version the default in the boot menu - how do I make the old version the default again?
<dwatkins> !grub
<lubotu3> GRUB2 is the default Ubuntu boot manager since 9.10 (Karmic). Lost GRUB after installing Windows? See https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestoreGrub - For more information and troubleshooting for GRUB2 please refer to https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Grub2 - See !grub1 for releases before Karmic (9.10)
<dwatkins> if it's the same as it was many versions ago, you can just edit the order in your menu.lst, but I've not toyed with grub for a long time.
<Azelphur> Can anyone recommend a nice cheap camera to go with zoneminder?
<Azelphur> preferably wireless
<BigRedS> KrimZon_2: generally, the safest way is to have your preferred OS be in charge of Grub
<KrimZon_2> BigRedS: how do I do that?
<BigRedS> KrimZon_2: generally uninstall it from the non-preferred one and install it only on the preferred one
<BigRedS> but not that way round
<KrimZon_2> ahh, I figured out how - "sudo grub-install /dev/sda1" on the old install
<KrimZon_2> I was really stumped as to what to search for to find that out
<KrimZon_2> I was googling vague stuff like "grub2 how to install again"
<BigRedS> yeah, but next time grub is updated on the non-preferred one it'll overwrite that
<Paladine> http://www.googlelawsuit.co.uk/ if anyone is interested
<BigRedS> Heh, get apache2_default without the www...
<Paladine> yeah am gonna add the vhost now
<MartijnVdS> Paladine: just add a ServerAlias directive in the current one
<MartijnVdS> Paladine: much easier ;)
<MartijnVdS> 1 ServerName, then lots of ServerAliases
<Paladine> or I can just use ServerAlias *.googlelawsuit.co.uk right?
<MartijnVdS> Paladine: uh.. let me check
<MartijnVdS> yes
<MartijnVdS> (I wasn't sure about wildcard support)
<Paladine> ok it works now
<Paladine> or should
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<Paladine> try going to anything.googlelawsuit.co.uk
<MartijnVdS> Paladine: not everything resolves
<MartijnVdS> Paladine: also, *.googlelawsuit.co.uk doesn't match googlelawsuit.co.uk (without anything in front)
<Paladine> yeah I need to restart apache too I think
<Paladine> cos it still going to default apache page for me
<MartijnVdS> reload should be enough
<Paladine> nope reload didnt work or the wildcard doesnt work
<Paladine> ok wildcard didn't seem to work so I just added the actual alias
<Paladine> and it works now
<Paladine> working for you?
<MartijnVdS> well "whateverItypehere.googlelawsuit.co.uk" still doesn't resolve (hence it won't work with apache ;))
<MartijnVdS> but yes, with and without www work
<BigRedS> Wildcard should work
<BigRedS> I'm using it
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: his wildcard dns isn't set up
<JohnRobert> hello
<daftykins> hi
<Klettbar> anyone expert of cpu clock
<Klettbar> i am concerned with the radiation tehy emit
<Klettbar> for example
<Klettbar> if they core duo 1.2 ghz
<Klettbar> what's teh actual electromagnetic radiation output
<dwatkins> there are regulations controlling the amount of EMI a device can put out, Klettbar
<dwatkins> if you want to detect it for yourself, you could get an EMF detector like this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/62367895/mrghost-iphone-emf-detector/
<Klettbar> yes, but i think subjects might be more or less sensitive
<dwatkins> subjects?
<Klettbar> individuals
<dwatkins> you could put your computer in a Faraday cage if you're really concerned, but I've been surrounded by electronic devices all my life and have never suffered any ill effects.
<dwatkins> why are you concerned about EMF, Klettbar?
<Klettbar> prevention
<Klettbar> i don't know
<Klettbar> just a topic
<dwatkins> "In the absence of evidence from cellular or animal studies, and given the methodological uncertainties and in many cases inconsistencies of the existing epidemiologic literature, there is no chronic disease outcome for which an etiological relation to EMF exposure can be regarded as established."
<Klettbar> ii imagine i feel something when i use a computer
<dwatkins> source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1240626/pdf/ehp109s-000911.pdf
<Klettbar> but cna be my imagination
<dwatkins> there's static electricity from a CRT, of course
<ali1234> computers put out EMF all over
<Klettbar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEk7_ml5UII
<ali1234> not just the CPU. all the busses too, on different frequencies
<Klettbar> other day i walked along a tall big antenna for telecommunications
<Klettbar> and had the same feeling/imagination
<dwatkins> I imagine all sorts of devices put out a fair amount of EMF.
<dwatkins> My alarm clock certainly does, but that's becuase it's a mobile phone ;)
<ali1234> anyone got the link to the russian fm transmitter where the guy pokes it with a stick and you can hear the radio in the arc
<dwatkins> 'We had an interesting incident near Humboldt State University. A new cell tower went up and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cell phone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health. To paraphrase the bottom line: "think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."'
<ali1234> Klettbar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG0mnOCHvww
<dwatkins> Personally I think any ill effects are in the mind. I could be wrong, but I've never known anyone to get ill by being around electronics.
<Klettbar> time-lapse illness
<ali1234> radio transmitters are serious business
<Klettbar> you can't see it from one single photo
<Klettbar> i know we can't renounce to electronic devices
<daftykins> dwatkins: :D so true. paranoia gets most people
<daftykins> i do however think kids should not have mobile phones until their skulls have formed properly
<Klettbar> but i think research should advance in the field of electronic devices and health
<dwatkins> daftykins: agreed, for many reasons
<dwatkins> Klettbar: there are lots of studies like the one I linked, I don't believe anything has been found to show such devices are dangerous
<bagpuss_thecat> Klettbar: it does, every day
<bagpuss_thecat> electronic devices are used to make miracles happen
<bagpuss_thecat> ie, CAT scanners, MRI, pacemakers, etc
<bagpuss_thecat> you don't hear fearmongers going on about the stuff that saves lives
<ali1234> yes you do
<ali1234> stem cell research
<ali1234> genetic engineering
<ali1234> "wah wah wah"
<bagpuss_thecat> ach I class them as religious extremists :-)
<ali1234> nanotech is going to destroy the world
<dwatkins> grey goo!
<Klettbar> how do you explain the increasing rate of tumors
<ali1234> pretty much anything, someone somewhere thinks it is going to destroy the world
<Klettbar> such a research shoudl have special criteria
<dwatkins> Klettbar: doctors are getting better at finding tumours
<Klettbar> :)
<AlanBell> Klettbar: I would explain it by the lack of people dying from "a long illness"
<bagpuss_thecat> Aggressive Hegemonizing Swarms!
<ali1234> first i would question is there any evidence that the rate of tumors is actually increasing?
<Klettbar> i like when ppl get what i mean
<bagpuss_thecat> Klettbar: earlier detection and more accurate detection
<dwatkins> Personally I think people should concentrate on stopping the damage to the planet, not turning off things which aren't actually causing any demonstrable harm.
<ali1234> AlanBell: less people dying from a short illness too
<ali1234> ie people live longer = more likely to get cancer
<ali1234> cos we cured everything else
<AlanBell> that too, yes
<bagpuss_thecat> I have no doubt our increasingly unhealthy lifestyles are also a contributory cause towards cancer
<bagpuss_thecat> but blaming it on electronics is just... bollocks
<dwatkins> there's a chance that car exhaust in the air has increased lung cancer, as has smoking far more significantly, of course.
<Klettbar> for example, bagpuss_thecat
<Klettbar> ?
<daftykins> i once heard that there's a tribe of people that've never been affected by cancer. however they eat all their food raw without cooking, so instead they have all kinds of other common ailments
<ali1234> our lifestyles pretty healthy compared to a couple hundred years ago when everyone was pooping in the street and not washing their hands
<dwatkins> daftykins: did they have a life expectancy of about 25 years?
<Klettbar> what ailments daftykins
<daftykins> dwatkins: not a clue
<dwatkins> wouldn't surprise me if they did, sadly
<daftykins> Klettbar: simple things attributable to not cooking food
<Klettbar> humans can not see effects in teh long run
<Klettbar> thus should trust intuition, common sense tradition
<dwatkins> yes we can, that's what historians do
<AlanBell> lol
<ali1234> common sense? nooooooooooooooooo
<dwatkins> I'm off to bed, have a fun discussion folks...
<bagpuss_thecat> Klettbar: what you've just described is short sightedness and fear of the unknown
<ali1234> common sense suggest the sun orbits the earth, which is flat - among other hilariously incorrect things
<bagpuss_thecat> like most extreme religions have
<Klettbar> only in teh field of health
<bagpuss_thecat> you can't have everything except something
<Klettbar> something except something
<Klettbar> scientist should focus on this
<AlanBell> so, shall we trust intuition, or a double blind clinical trial
<Klettbar> not weapons but shoiield
<Klettbar> shield
<Klettbar> have to close
<Klettbar> slowing my
<Klettbar> "device"
<Klettbar> bye
<bagpuss_thecat> the EMF got to him
<daftykins> i'm sorry, but what a friggin' nutcase
<daftykins> almost as bad as the time i got asked by a friend of a friend if there were any noise suppressors for network cables
<bagpuss_thecat> scissors
<daftykins> oh he didn't do wireless
<daftykins> fear of, well what that guy had
<bagpuss_thecat> I honestly cannot fathom why some people just can't trust science
<ali1234> wat
<bagpuss_thecat> "But I personally must understand everything"
<bagpuss_thecat> you can't. just face it
<ali1234> of course there are noise suppressors for network cables...
<solarcloud> Tonite's meal of Toad In The Hole didn't expand high enough in the included Tesco baking tray. solarcloud is moderately disappointed with Tesco :( , but eats his chow none the less...
 * bagpuss_thecat looks at mgdm 
<ali1234> http://www.iautomate.com/products/Ferrite-Chokes-for-RFID-CAT5-Installations.html
<daftykins> ali1234: that's not the point, the guy in question was claiming he was getting noise on recordings or something
<ali1234> well maybe he was?
<ali1234> RFI can be nasty
<daftykins> or just generally paranoid about EMI on cables that went into his room
<solarcloud> Have I missed a flame-war ??
<daftykins> ugh nevermind, cba to have this conversation
<ali1234> mains hum is pretty much universal
<ali1234> of course if you're not setting up a recording studio there isn't much point worrying about it
 * mgdm looks at bagpuss_thecat 
 * bagpuss_thecat looks at mgdm again
<bagpuss_thecat> your fault
<mgdm> what is?
<bagpuss_thecat> EMF
<bagpuss_thecat> :-)
<mgdm> ah
<czajkowski> daftykins: /ignore is your friend :)
<daftykins> no, i've never used that function in the years i've been around IRC
<daftykins> and i won't be starting now :)
<daftykins> plus i've dealt with worse than ali1234 ;) sadly
<ali1234> heh, that guy the other day. block someone and then ask what they said?
<daftykins> who was that?
<ali1234> someone on g+
<ali1234> kind of silly if you ask me
<daftykins> czajkowski: you must meet a lot of nutters in the circles you move in now?
<dogmatic69> done my tax return early this year. All done with 45min to spare...
<daftykins> dogmatic69: :D i did mine early too!
<dogmatic69> nice!
<Azelphur> Anyone recommend a good cheap surround sound compatible with a PC?
<Azelphur> For my HTPC, so a front room job
<daftykins> i used to use a logitech speaker set in the past
<Azelphur> daftykins: anything specific?
<daftykins> well the set is the Z-5500 i think but i don't know if they make them anymore
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-01
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: I got a set of the ~80GPB logitec 5.1 and its not bad.
<Azelphur> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-X-540-Multimedia-Speaker-System/dp/B000LBHFMO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359677103&sr=8-1 found these, thoughts?
<dogmatic69> I have these on my pc http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/product/surround-sound-speakers-z506?crid=47
<Azelphur> interesting, similar then
<Azelphur> reckon they'd be good for surround sound on a tv?
<daftykins> main thing you want to look for is being able to take dolby digital _and_ DTS via optical or coaxial digital interfaces
<Azelphur> do the X540s do that?
<dogmatic69> Azelphur: using pc ones, you should check the cable length. Mine are long, but I dont think its living room long
<Azelphur> ah
<dogmatic69> maybe 5 / 10m or so
<Azelphur> yea, cabling is certainly gonna be interesting
<daftykins> *nod*
<daftykins> especially as Logitech ones are often hardwired in at least one end
<daftykins> so prevent custom cable use
<daftykins> unless you can do some kinda extensions
<daftykins> i got myself a proper Onkyo AV receiver though last Christmas :>
<Azelphur> fun
<daftykins> only 'cause Best Buy UK were closing down :D
<Azelphur> hehe
<dogmatic69> also traditional 5.1 for example uses twin flex. The logitech by comparison is ~ http://i.imgur.com/YCg6O8O.jpg
<daftykins> super cheap deal! they refused to ship to the channel islands but a friend helped me out :>
<Azelphur> :D
<dogmatic69> My wires are all with connectors. iirc they are the same you get for old TV
<dogmatic69> RCA or something
<daftykins> you'd be surprised how hated we are by UK companies 0o
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> same with my set
<daftykins> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-Digital-Multimedia-Theatre-Speaker/dp/B0006HBCL8
<dogmatic69> but they are a good 7 / 8 mm thick. Thicker than a std iphone charger cable
<daftykins> not so cheap XD
<Azelphur> yea, pricey
<dogmatic69> twin flex on the 5500 http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-media/product-gallery/B0006HBCL8/ref=cm_ciu_pdp_images_0?ie=UTF8&index=0&isremote=0
<daftykins> that's actually a strange version shipped in some markets
<daftykins> mine has hardwired single feeds that connect into RCA at the sub
<daftykins> a friend worked Logitech support until recently, when i mentioned it he hadn't heard of my version before :O
<popey> Morning
<daubers> Morning
<popey> Nexus 4 out for delivery!
<daubers> popey: This being turned into an Ubuntu Phone?
<popey> well, not yet
<daubers> Heh :) Surprises me, knowing your general annoyances with Android
<popey> Android has improved, that's for sure
<daubers> Absolutley, JB is pretty nice compared to ICS
<daubers> Not tried the latest iOS though (or wp8... which I've heard mixed reviews of)
<popey> Went to a Unity3D conf thing yesterday. Met the guy behind http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/701664180/cyberstream-fugitive
<popey> ali1234: do you have an n900?
<directhex> android-1 sucks. android is awesome
<directhex> 3 months pass
<directhex> android sucks. android+1 is awesome
<JamesTait> Happy Friday *and* Happy February, everyone! :-D
<Laney> i'd never notice the passing of the year were not not for mailman reminding me
<Laney> s/not not/it not/
<JamesTait> Yep, that's a whole load of e-mails that are easy to deal with this morning. :)
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<popey> bug 1014054
<lubotu3> bug 1014054 in ModemManager "Huawei E220 modem will not connect in Ubuntu 12.04" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1014054
<ali1234> popey: yes i have a n900
<popey> ali1234: do you still run the original distro on it?
<ali1234> popey: yes
<ali1234> i haven't used it for ages
<ali1234> there's no distro for it that replaces the internal memory anyway
<ali1234> everything else boots off SD cards
<davmor2> Morning all you funky people and Happy Friday
<popey> saw this and thought of bigcalm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QodrSfsboFk
<bigcalm> popey: haha!
<Paladine> afternoon
<davmor2> popey, bigcalm: Wow it sounds that good, I've listened to some but it sounded worse than that :D
<Myrtti> new meerkat advert â¥
<gord> Myrtti, my special edition arrived :P https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95627817/2013-02-01%2012.25.50.jpg
<Myrtti> gord: our normal did as well
<gord> the book is awesome https://dl.dropbox.com/u/95627817/2013-02-01%2012.26.53.jpg
<popey> http://i.imgur.com/rZFBUCO.gif
<Myrtti> oh well, instead of the extended edition, I have NFC thingies to play with
<popey> grrr! postie has been teasing me
<popey> two parcels have arrived, neither are nexus 4s
<brobostigon> :(
<popey> they are both nice things tho!
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> popey: you went and bought the super star destroyer and Millennium Falcon uberspecial edition right?
<popey> haha, i wish
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/digistump/digispark-the-tiny-arduino-enabled-usb-dev-board?ref=live
<popey> got a few of them
<daubers> popey: What're you intending to do with those?
<popey> daubers: not sure yet âº
<popey> cute aren't they?
<daubers> They are :) Wondering if they'd fit in an inMoov, but I don't think there's enough pins for what I'm planning
 * popey has no idea what an inMoov is
<daubers> http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:17773
<daubers> In the middle of printing that at the moment
<popey> golly
<daubers> Want to put a light sensor on it, so when someone approaches my desk it swears at them
<davmor2> popey: wow those things are tiny
<mrnbuntu2> Hi all, i'm having some issues installing Ubuntu, after booting the CD, and about 5 seconds into loading the drivers
<mrnbuntu2> The bootup will stall on a message regarding loading the USB
<mrnbuntu2> I think this is an issue to do with the motherboard, does anyone have any experience with this?
<SuperEngineer> Anyone else found that Skype, if launched by Pidgin, has stopped following status change in Pidgin?
<SuperEngineer> Trying to work out if a Skype bug or a Pidgin bug, or a bug elsewhere
<davmor2> popey: when you getting one of these http://www.roadkilltshirts.com/DO-OR-DO-NOT-THERE-IS-NO-TRY-T-SHIRT-P13723.aspx
<daubers> Hmmm... Apple are going to stop selling Mac Pro's in Europe on Thursday next week
<MartijnVdS> yay
<popey> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/750308586/stormfly-like-a-pc-on-your-wrist
<popey> boggle
<popey> usb stick on your wrist
<popey> http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/538061226/colorfull_bracelet_USB_3_0.html
<MartijnVdS> uh.. yay?
<amayer_> you can do that same stuff with a regular usb drive and unet boot
<AlanBell> looks like a complete scam
<amayer_> idk if its a scam. its just conviniece that you pay for(and a usb braclet)
<gord> scam is a bit far, its fashion
<amayer_> a 32Gb flash drive is $30US, ubuntu is free, so for $30US(+/-) you can have the same thing without the flashy wristband
<popey> its a 16GB one
<popey> 8GB for OS, 4GB for /home and 4GB for shared partition
<amayer_> is it really? wow 16Gb usb is $10US
<popey> thats what their FAQ says
<MartijnVdS> at least it's not like Windows tablets.. "64GB" .. 27GB usable
<popey> commodore 64 only had 38K usable âº
<popey> oh how we've come such a long way (not)
<MartijnVdS> so free space went down, relatively speaking
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: well you have to remember that you need a backup of Windows plus the install of windows, plus all the additional crap that windows 8 installs by default whether you want it or not
<MartijnVdS> davmor2: yeah but this is _excluding_ office
<davmor2> MartijnVdS: yeap but there are about 10-14 additional apps installed by default as in fresh OEM from MS themselves
<davmor2> popey, bigcalm: http://www.badideatshirts.com/LEGO-NO-T-SHIRT-P2246.aspx :D
<MartijnVdS> hahaha :)
<MartijnVdS> heh
<MartijnVdS> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/and-so-the-older-male-makes-way-for-a-younger-rival-david-attenborough-reveals-his-choice-of-successor-professor-brian-cox-8474169.html
<Myrtti> MartijnVdS:  â¥
<alcockell> Hi all..
<ali1234> why is my monitor able to display 1048 horizontal lines without blurring/scaling and still have the image fully fit the screen?
<ali1234> it's 1920x1200 native res
<ali1234> i don't understand this
<gord> maybe just doubles some lines?
<SuperEngineer> ooo... after a full Bleachbit clean & a full restart - skype suddenly starts following Pidgin status again... hmmm
<Myrtti> gord: ohmygowd it's Rhod Gilbert.
<gord> Myrtti, i actually switched to the Japanese VA, but i hear the english one is pretty good. normally they choose a southern north american accent for an Osaka accent but going with a welsh accent makes muuuch more sense
<solarcloud> Myrtti: Gilbert ? The Guy with the flaming Battenburg Tattoo ??
<Myrtti> it sounds like it, or a Scottie
<Myrtti> but Rhod Gilbert, yes, Battenberg.
<solarcloud> He'd be a good software tester, .... with his insights !
<Myrtti> oh, it's the Reg Cattermole from Harry Potter :-D
<Myrtti> Steffan Rhodri even :-D
<Myrtti> brilliant
<solarcloud> soz, never did Harry Potter at school.
<Myrtti> ah, but we're talking of a PS3 game called Ni No Kuni, in which a character is talking with Welsh accent
<solarcloud> Right, a friend got a PS3 from Tesco, today in fac I just sighed at a ife of proprietory software ahead of him ...
<solarcloud> **in fact ...
<solarcloud> damn apple keyboard !
<gord> Myrtti, once you can access the book, you should know the ingame book is exactly the same as the hardcopy real book i goot, all 300 odd pages of goodness :)
<gord> they really put a lot of effort into the whole thing
<Myrtti> yeah we just got there
<popey> nexus 4 should have been delivered between 9AM and 18:00
<popey> â¹
<daftykins> is that in the UK?
<Laney> couriers are terrible
<Laney> DPD slightly less so
<daftykins> heh all those little companies have generic people in vans over here to cover their stuff. they're dire
<daftykins> a friend discovered they had walked into a completely different house and left her stuff on their kitchen table recently XD
<daftykins> to rectify the matter, the person walked back into that open house (nobody home) discovered the partially opened items and took them back O_O
<shauno> DPD have been pretty decent here
<popey> this is TNT
<Laney> at least it's not HDNhell
<daftykins> maybe TNT are still getting all the details mixed up like happened before!
<daftykins> popey: tried your local depot?
<popey> calling them
<popey> while making pasta, pesto, chicken & cheese
<popey> i r chef
<daftykins> ^_^
<Azelphur> TNT arrived at my house and gave me the wrong package
<Azelphur> didn't realise till I opened
<Azelphur> (when I got my Nexus 4, that is)
<daftykins> oops!
<daftykins> was it someone elses, or something else entirely?
<Azelphur> someone elses package
<Azelphur> I was just on the phone to TNT when he came back "Did I give you the wrong package?"
<daftykins> this is what i get visiting the Play store
<daftykins> "Sorry! Devices on Google Play is not available in your country yet."
<daftykins> =|
<Azelphur> what country you in?
<daftykins> island of Guernsey
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> so technically still the UK when it suits us
<daftykins> blatantly just a GeoIP fail
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> took me SOOOO long to find a contact feature to complain about it
<daftykins> just now trying to find my email from the Google chappy so i can chase him up
<popey> hah, so, they are going to deliver today
<Azelphur> o.O
<popey> apparently this one guy has all the "google stuff" in his van
<Azelphur> they don't have long rofl
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hope he's getting overtime
<popey> yeah
<popey> they implied he was the keen one
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> doh can't find this email
<Azelphur> only 5 days till my internet finally gets connected
<Azelphur> been waiting since november
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> 4 days 'til i have a house :O
<Azelphur> :O
<daftykins> then at some point i too shall have the fun of waiting for tubes :>
<daftykins> though i might not rush tbh
<daftykins> get far more done in a house when you have none
 * Azelphur shrugs
<daftykins> cannae find it ;/
<daftykins> i give up ;x
<daftykins> looks like Google are gonna get away with this one
<daftykins> http://support.google.com/nexus/bin/request.py?contact_type=contact_policy
<daftykins> that still blank for you guys too? :)
<daftykins> at least there's that 0800 number i suppose
<daftykins> solarcloud: can you see the Nexus 4 purchase page?
<popey> arrived!
<daftykins> ;]
<daftykins> go go gadget charging
<popey> being reserved, leaving it while i eat âº
<daftykins> just tried their support # but the woman was super quiet
<daftykins> could barely hear, so i just gave up ;x
<daftykins> SuperMatt's connection has had issues for ages now ;x
<daftykins> SuperMatt: what's up with your tubes?
<Myrtti> AlanBell: ping
<Laney> SOUP Y U NO SIMMER
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> food does not comply?
 * Laney cranks it up to 11
<Laney> gas >>>>>>>>>>>>> electric :(
<daftykins> too true
<daftykins> when i was cooking on someones electric hob i found the exact right spot was between two numbers
<Myrtti> we've got a simmer setting in our microwave â¥
<popey> induction > gas
<daftykins> i wonder how the sensors work for that 0o
<Laney> induction you POSHO
<daftykins> some people
<daftykins> ;)
<popey> I â¥  my induction hob
<Myrtti> is Ubuntu UK a member of the O'Reilly User Group programme?
<popey> i think in the distant past we were
<Myrtti> alright, just wondered
<meet> Is there going to be an official vanilla gnome 3 flavour in recent future?
<Laney> what does official mean?
<meet> Like lubuntu kubuntu.
<Laney> I'd imagine so, but within the constraints of Ubuntu it's difficult to be as pure as other GNOME 3 distros
<Laney> there already is an Ubuntu GNOME remix btw
<meet> Has there been any hint / announcement from canonical?
<Laney> I don't imagine they would be very involved; it's a community effort
<meet> Ok
<AlanBell> hi Myrtti
<AlanBell> induction hobs ftw
<Myrtti> AlanBell: would you remember the up to date information about the O'Reilly thing?
<AlanBell> I don't have any info on that at all
<Myrtti> alright
<Myrtti> just wondered
<daubers> AlanBell: o/
<AlanBell> o/
<AlanBell> nice hand daubers
<daubers> AlanBell: Still lots to print
<daubers> AlanBell: Are you aware that Rdg Hackspace are looking into setting up a coworking space?
<daftykins> hrmm, is 0800 free on Skype 0o
<AlanBell> interesting, no I wasn't
<daubers> There might be some problems relating to being registered in a certain way (we're not supposed to make profit) but if we can overcome that then that's the aim
<AlanBell> got any info on it?
<AlanBell> why are you not supposed to make a profit?
<AlanBell> nfp can carry forward a surplus
<daubers> There isn't much yet.... We're not supposed to make a profit because we're a company limited by guarentee (or something) and the landlords rules state we get a discount on the rent as long as we're not profit making
<Paladine> daftykins, I dont think so
<Paladine> but I get free international anyway so I can't confirm
<daubers> AlanBell: People cleverer than me are looking into that bit anyway
<AlanBell> fair enough
<daubers> Thought you'd be interested as you where pushing it for surrey and hampshire
<AlanBell> well I was pushing against it in the end :)
<AlanBell> had to do a bit of a big ragequit to make sure nobody got hurt
<daubers> heh :)
<bigcalm_laptop> Hoi hoi
<daftykins> Paladine: seems i didn't get charged anything! thanks anywho :)
<Paladine> np
<daftykins> Paladine: i called your pals at Google support to ask them to unblock the channel islands from being allowed to buy Nexus devices ;)
<Paladine> how did that go?
<daftykins> Paladine: i got asked if i'd tried another browser :D
<Paladine> hahah
<daftykins> when i said it failed on several, she quickly understood it was a problem with the website and not me
<daftykins> BINGO \o/
<Paladine> you seen this http://www.googlelawsuit.co.uk/
<daftykins> i tried to mention geoIP but that kinda got ignored ;D
<daftykins> ooh it has its' own site now
<daftykins> your site no less!?
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> it's ok though they're only Apple users ;)
<Paladine> yeah my site
<Paladine> been working on it all week, launched yesterday
<Paladine> still tweaking a few things and adding some more features
<daftykins> :)
<Paladine> the press page will get tackled tomorrow and made to look pretty
<daftykins> who're you hosting with? i've gotta look into hosting for someone soon
<Paladine> I have my own servers
<Paladine> 2 in different data centres
<Paladine> I use my leaseweb server for email and I can't remember name of other provider gimmie a sec
<Paladine> WorldStream
<daftykins> ah Dutch?
<Paladine> yeah
<Paladine> anyways I am going to bed, laters
<n1md4> is there a minimal desktop ubuntu distro?
<solarcloud> daftykins: I can see the Nexus 4 shop page,to answer your question from earlier, However, when I click on the it says it's not available yet ... To be exact ... " Sorry! Devices on Google Play is not available in your country yet.
<solarcloud> We're working to bring devices to more countries as quickly as possible.
<solarcloud> Please check back again soon.
<solarcloud> "
<solarcloud> soz for the flood.
<daftykins> solarcloud: yeah i get that here too :) thanks
<daftykins> i contacted support just now to get Guernsey 'allowed'
<daftykins> bit harsh they block you too
<solarcloud> strange isn't it ?
<daftykins> yeah :(
<daftykins> i sense it's by intention
<daftykins> geoIP is blocking our islands
<solarcloud> I have chosen a song to explempify (is that even a word ?) http://open.spotify.com/track/4V7bxkj5BJDnoVMvTHaLkQ
<daftykins> exemplify, ja
<daftykins> though i don't use spotify
<daftykins> ^_^
<Azelphur> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwvYrv2s9Kk this is cool o.O
<solarcloud> daftykins: yeah, there's too much background noise where I am , So I have wireless closed loop expensive headphones on my head 90% of my day-time... Spotify is just a killer application and the Â£5 a month is nothing compared to the quality of it.
<daftykins> what's so noisy where you are?
<daftykins> shaky cam is shaky
<daftykins> Azelphur: shame those milk the battery :D
<solarcloud> just background noise from other in the aparttments etc .. it doesn't affect me.
<Azelphur> hehe
<daftykins> ah
 * awilkins has just discovered that his version of Windows doesn't have an RDP server
 * awilkins is not surprised but is annoyed
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> win7 home?
<daftykins> or older
<daftykins> awilkins: ?
<awilkins> Win7 Home Premium
<daftykins> i'll bet there are guides out there to hack it on
<awilkins> There are
<awilkins> Meh
<dwatkins> awjust run it in virtualbox, that'll give you an RDP front-end ;)
<dwatkins> oops, awilkins left
<daftykins> dwatkins: doh hate it when that happens
<dwatkins> yeah, I don't have enough room in my terminal for a user list ;)
<daftykins> when i first moved to irssi i found i didn't miss the nick list
<daftykins> just a waste of valuable real estate!
<daftykins> aka MAH PIXELZ!!!
<daftykins> any of you guys still use bitfolk VPS's?
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-02
<daftykins> hrmm
<daftykins> i'm playing with my domain's DNS configuration with my provider, their web management panel notes i don't have reverse DNS functioning
<daftykins> do i solve that by creating a PTR record under that domain, or is there more to it?
<daftykins> looks like i need a PTR in a DNS zone of my IP to point to my domain?
<daftykins> 10.04 support, does it end this April or April 2015?
<solarcloud> daftykins: The desktop side ends in April 2013 the server side ends in April 2015 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ubuntu_releases#Version_timeline
<solarcloud> Are you still up, ya daft sod ??
<daftykins> lawl
<daftykins> yeah i saw conflicting answers, thanks
<solarcloud> Nice moon -rise tonite.
<solarcloud> Actually I have a small task , perhaps you could help me with .. up for it for 10 minutes ??
<daftykins> depends what it is ^_^
<solarcloud> Well...
<solarcloud> I need a 15" screen laptop to get more python experience and I need to look at one off ebay .. soooo...
<solarcloud> I was wondering if you could help me locate a decent laptop that I'd buy for the academic job/task ..
<daftykins> did y'try Dell refurbs yet?
<solarcloud> ebay.co.uk ofcourse :)
<solarcloud> whats their address ?
<daftykins> just hunting now
<daftykins> http://www.dell.com/uk/dfh/p?s=dfh
<solarcloud> I hear the bugle-ers calling .. the hunt is on .. Tally ho !
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> http://outlet.euro.dell.com/Online/InventorySearch.aspx?brandId=7&c=uk&cs=ukdfh1&l=en&s=dfh
<daftykins> that's a more useful page
<daftykins> wow at what you can get for 291 quid
<daftykins> that's laptops mind
<solarcloud> ?
<daftykins> ah yeah you did say laptops, my bad
<solarcloud> mmm.. Â£300 .. I was hoping for a more Â£150 option .. it is just python...
<daftykins> how come you don't just play with virtualisation?
<daftykins> it goes down to 178
<solarcloud> I haven'tgot a 15@ laptop to begin with and that's what I want for the job .. but you think it would be bettr to use my desktop, do you ??
<solarcloud> **15"
<daftykins> well you could install a virtual machine, a 'pretend' computer atop your real one
<solarcloud> Yes, I am well aware of it...
<solarcloud> I justneed to se the desk that I've bought to set everything out .. which is well away (4 meters) from my desktop machine ...
<solarcloud> **to use ...
<solarcloud> ... the sound of bugles is distant now .. I think we are drifting off the scent ..
<daftykins> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Samsung-RV511-15-6-320-GB-Intel-Core-i3-2-53-GHz-3-GB-Laptop-/330867117632?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item4d09378e40
<solarcloud> opening..
<daftykins> 190 =/ but buy it now
<solarcloud> e does have very bad feedback from the 21st of January this year ... not sure ...
<solarcloud> **He does..
<daftykins> for a washing machine though :>
<solarcloud> .. still it does point to a bad seller .. still not sure .. but tempted :)
<solarcloud> It does give a return policy.
<solarcloud> seems to be a 2011 model ..
<solarcloud> the fact it is turned off is a little worrying ..
<solarcloud> Also his postcode is pur fantasy .. so the hunt is still on ..
<solarcloud> daftykins: This one is nice ::: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sony-VAIO-VGN-BX297XP-17-HDD-200GB-RAM-2GB-Laptop-NO-RESERVE-/190791636345?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item2c6c115579
<solarcloud> ... but would you go with a Sony ?
<daftykins> Pentium M isn't amazing, but it'd do
<solarcloud> ok, then .. I'll get that one .... thank-you.
<solarcloud> 17" screen is ample.. :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<solarcloud> it will be pricey in a saturday though :D
<daftykins> may be worth a quick google of the model with Ubuntu to see if it runs well
<daftykins> ATI mobility radeon X700
<solarcloud> scanning...
<daftykins> ok that might not be amazing
<daftykins> for newer ubuntus
<daftykins> but, meh
<solarcloud> AMD stopped support after Ubuntu 8.04.
<solarcloud> guess that's out then.
<solarcloud> $ony sucks salty balls, anyway ...
<daftykins> whats claiming that?
<daftykins> nah they make good kit. just a bit awkward
<solarcloud> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1542673
<solarcloud> at bottom..
<solarcloud> Strange why 8.10 does it and 10.04 does not ?
<solarcloud> is that common ?
<daftykins> solarcloud: it just means for hardware acceleration etc, it might work fine for a standard looking resolution on an older ubuntu
<daftykins> and unity2D etc
<solarcloud> oh ok
<daftykins> but there may well be better results anyway
<daftykins> on fleabay
<solarcloud> thought it was odd..
<solarcloud> I call it feebay, but nevermind :)
<daftykins> ^_^
<daftykins> i've sold a few things, bought a few things
<daftykins> i hear ya
<solarcloud> had to return a jacket last week to America .. it's nice but the post office here is a ba$tard.
<dogmatic69> 5mb eps requires 2.4GB ram to open...
<daftykins> eps?
<dogmatic69> vector from adobe I think
<solarcloud> one thing dependancies really lack are ombusmen ...
<dogmatic69> oh up to 6GB now. 2 more before it runs out...
<solarcloud> daftykins: Anyway gotta go ... the hounds have finished ravishing the rabbit for one night. Good luck, dear pal .. :)
<daftykins> dogmatic69: encapsulated postscript file? 0o
<dogmatic69> ye
<daftykins> solarcloud: gl with the purchase/bid o/
<solarcloud> o/
<dogmatic69> daftykins: opened in gimp with no issues.
<dogmatic69> wont open in inkscape
<daftykins> beat them up, by email
<ali1234> hum... implementing cd is annoying
<MartijnVdS> ?
<MartijnVdS> you're writing your own shell?
<ali1234> yes
<ali1234> if arg='..' else if arg[0]='/' else
<ali1234> but wait, you can also type ../whatever
<ali1234> or ../
<ali1234> or ../..
<ali1234> basically, parsing a unix path is annoying when you don't have OS functions to do it for you (and tell you if the file exists)
<ali1234> maybe i can use those OS functions...
<MartijnVdS>  // also works
<ali1234> yeah
<MartijnVdS> also, paths with symlink elements
<ali1234> there's also stuff that makes no sense
<MartijnVdS> (not to brung you down or anything ;))
<ali1234> like /..
<MartijnVdS> bring*
<ali1234> symlinks i don't have to worry about because i only have a pseudo filesystem
<ali1234> since this program may run on not-unix, i can't use OS functions
<ali1234> so i need a general function to canonicalize a unix path
<ali1234> then i can test against the directory structure
<ali1234> with the cleaned up version
<ali1234> well actually i guess i'm using ftp... maybe there's something in urllib
<czajkowski> aloha
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<BigRedS> morning!
<brobostigon> morning BigRedS
<BigRedS> hello! How's things?
<brobostigon> BigRedS: not bad overall, and you?
<BigRedS> yeah, good. at fisdem being confused by a talkon virt networking :)
<brobostigon> :) ah
<daubers> Morning
<Xetius> #avlib
<popey> Afternoon all
<MartijnVdS> \o popey
<Knightwise> mornin
<Knightwise> hows everyone today ?
<dwatkins> I've managed to tidy up, take a box to the charity shop and put the washing on, so far a very successful day.
<ali1234> i though cd was hard... ls is a nightmare
<jpds> ali1234: Now try sl.
<ali1234> wat
<jpds> ali1234: apt-get install sl && sl
<ali1234> i know what it is
<ali1234> it just displays an animation... trivial :)
<ali1234> problem: given a list of files: 'dir/subdir/filename' implement a shell with cd and ls, globbing, and relative paths, in order to browse the file list
<ali1234> it's harder than it looks
<ali1234> something especially intricate is how ls lines everything up
<ali1234> implementing that is a major pita
<SuperEngineer> boo
<SuperEngineer> pleased to see "next meeting 09/01/2013 20:00" is still there... so comforting, so stable ;)
<SuperEngineer> [must be an "LTS" version of a meeting
<DJones> SuperEngineer: Patience is a virtue :)
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<opensports> https://fosdem.org/2013/news/2013-01-31-streaming/
<penguin42> precise's unity-2d is so much faster in kvm than Quantal's unity; the llvm stuff just isn't quite there yet
<penguin42> popey: Those steam numbers are interesting, I find the low % of macos users curious
<daftykins> i think that's down to graphics hardware being quite poor in Apple gear
<daftykins> and no option to upgrade of course since they've not done a standard desktop form factor in years
<penguin42> I think Apple's had high end graphics?
<daftykins> nah
<penguin42> oh, the world must have changed while I wasn't looking, they used to be known for it for all the video guys that used them
<daftykins> i was thinking in 3D game terms
<daftykins> maybe the laptops have good mobile gfx chips when they come out, but that doesn't make them great for gamers
<penguin42> yeh I guess so, I think they emphasise driving large/lots of displays and good bit depth
<popey> and very nice display technology
<popey> as in the panels
<Nils_> Hello. Can I ask for help here?
<popey> sure
<popey> penguin42: LLVM is painful
<penguin42> popey: Nod
<penguin42> popey: Problem is KVM doesn't have any 3d support
<popey> yeah
<Nils_> Ok.I bought a laptop from ebay with Ubuntu 10.04. Everything works fine but I can't start any apps from the store like steam or other games.
<popey> we had a patch for compiz which would improve things in kvm, but it made things worse in virtualbox so we backed it out
<Nils_> Any default apps are working fine
<penguin42> Nils_: What type of spec laptop ?
<directhex> Nils_, steam requires ubuntu 12.04
<popey> Nils_: steam wont run on 10.04, full stop
<penguin42> Nils_: 10.04 is rather old as well, I'd upgrade to 12.04 if it'll take it
<Nils_> Oh sorry misstyped it's 12.04
<Nils_> IntelÂ® Coreâ¢2 Duo CPU T9600 @ 2.80GHz Ã 2
<Nils_> with a radeon hd 3650
<popey> have you installed steam?
<Nils_> I tried but I get many errors and it won't start
<penguin42> unless you tell us the errors we can't guess!
<Nils_> Running Steam on ubuntu 12.04 STEAM_RUNTIME is enabled automatically on ubuntu Installing breakpad exception handler for appid(steam)/version(1359765526_client) SteamUpdateUI: An X Error occurred X Error of failed request:  BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation) Major opcode of failed request:  136 (GLX) Minor opcode of failed request:  19 (X_GLXQueryServerString) Serial number of failed request:  12 xerror_handler: X
<penguin42> you can use a pastebin to show us if there are lots
<SuperEngineer_> ...would say what is my brain thinks about that but code of conduct forbids"!
<popey> Nils_: http://askubuntu.com/questions/175744/x-error-of-failed-request-badrequest-invalid-request-code-or-no-such-operation
<Nils_> http://pastebin.com/Lh8Tya0B
<popey> hmm, maybe ignore that link
<popey> i am guessing an ATI driver issue?
<penguin42> popey: Well it is the glxquerystring error
<penguin42> Nils_: If you go to system settings-details-graphics what does it say for Driver and Experience?
<Nils_> I thought about a driver issue, too because commands like glrxinfo don't work
<Nils_> Graphics: Unknown
<penguin42> ah
<penguin42> that'll be the problem then
<popey> so maybe http://askubuntu.com/questions/124292/what-is-the-correct-way-to-install-ati-catalyst-video-drivers-fglrx/126513#126513
<penguin42> popey: Not worth trying additional drivers?
<popey> pass
<popey> that one seems to have a lot of upvotes
<popey> indicating success
<penguin42> Nils_: I'd try system settings-additional drivers and see what it says, it might give you the option of installing an ATI driver with just a click
<Nils_> @penguin I tried and it shows Sorry, installation of this driver failed.  Please have a look at the log file for details: /var/log/jockey.log
<penguin42> ...and it said?
<daftykins> it's glxinfo right, not glrx
<Nils_> glxinfo gives me this: name of display: :0.0 X Error of failed request:  BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation)   Major opcode of failed request:  136 (GLX)   Minor opcode of failed request:  19 (X_GLXQueryServerString)   Serial number of failed request:  12   Current serial number in output stream:  12
<daftykins> ok :)
<penguin42> Nils_: Yeh that's basically the same as stream, i.e. 'huh what no GLX?'
<daftykins> Nils_: can you pastebin that jockey.log ?
<Nils_> it's a big log and pastebin keeps connecting
<penguin42> Nils_: You can use the pastebinit command
<Nils_> in here?
<Nils_> pastebinit
<penguin42> Nils_: No, it's a command
<daftykins> no in a terminal
<popey> (you need to install pastebinit first - sudo apt-get install pastebinit)
<Nils_> it's installed and now?
<penguin42> pastebinit /var/log/jockey.log
<penguin42> (I think?)
<popey> yes
<penguin42> popey: I'm curious, what are your repeating 15min nobbles of power at about 1am ?
<Nils_> Seems to not do anything
<penguin42> Nils_: Should give you a URL you can paste us
<Nils_> nope just blank
<popey> penguin42: tumble dryer, bed linen wasnt dry
<penguin42> popey: Oh so that was a dry, hmph still not dry, try a bit longer?
<popey> yes
<penguin42> ah
<popey> fun to watch
<Nils_> http://pastebin.com/Nxgc5P4J
<popey> tumble dryer is on right now
<Nils_> here it is
<Nils_> by the way when I try to follow this tutorial you linked me  http://askubuntu.com/questions/124292/what-is-the-correct-way-to-install-ati-catalyst-video-drivers-fglrx/126513#126513
<Nils_> and I try the first commands to delete previous stuff
<popey> AlanBell: http://switchgaming.blogspot.ca/2013/01/game-accessibility-information-symbol.html i know you're not interested in gaming as such, but interesting anyway..
<Nils_> it says:
<Nils_> sh: 0: Can't open /usr/share/ati/fglrx-uninstall.sh
<daftykins> yeah that's no biggy, just means an ATI driver hasn't been installed already
<daftykins> which is kinda obvious since you have no glx :>
<Nils_> so keep following the tut?
<daftykins> well i'd have thought you were posting the jockey log to see what is going wrong first
<daftykins> depends what you want to do
<Nils_> http://pastebin.com/Nxgc5P4J
<Nils_> here is the log
<daftykins> i've no experience with it myself to know what those errors mean 0o
<daftykins> well, messages, not errors
<daftykins> 2013-02-02 12:40:50,009 DEBUG: XorgDriverHandler(%s, %s).enabled(): No X.org driver set, not checking
<daftykins> 2013-02-02 12:40:50,023 DEBUG: fglrx.enabled(fglrx): target_alt /usr/lib/fglrx/ld.so.conf current_alt /usr/lib/fglrx/ld.so.conf other target alt /usr/lib/fglrx/alt_ld.so.conf other current alt /usr/lib/fglrx/alt_ld.so.conf
<daftykins> almost sounds like it's already installed 0o
<daftykins> but perhaps not in use?
<penguin42> Nils_: Now you've done that what happens if you reboot?
<Nils_> you mean restart?
<penguin42> yep
<Nils_> but I haven't really done anything have I?
<penguin42> well did you tell the additional drivers to install stuff?
<Nils_> it didn't worked
<Nils_> and created the log
<penguin42> well the log doesn't have anything particularly bad in it, and it does look like it did an install; so try a reboot
<Nils_> ok
<Nils__> here I am
<Nils__> How should I test it?
<penguin42> you just did a full restart - seems rather fast?
<Nils__> Well I went to shut down->restart
<penguin42> and it went all the way back to the bios and came back up?
<Nils__> I'm not totally sure
<Nils__> I will try again
<Nils__> didn't noticed the bios
<penguin42> that looks better....
<daftykins> that's the first nick disappearing :)
<Nils_> Ok it did.
<penguin42> right, any better?
<Nils_> still shows the same errors when starting steam
<penguin42> ok, and also when running glxgears ?
<Nils_> nils@nils-ThinkPad-T500:~$ glxgears X Error of failed request:  BadRequest (invalid request code or no such operation)   Major opcode of failed request:  136 (GLX)   Minor opcode of failed request:  19 (X_GLXQueryServerString)   Serial number of failed request:  12   Current serial number in output stream:  12
<penguin42> oh
<penguin42> (how can he have a 245 second ping timeout when we just saw something?)
<penguin42> anyway, time for food
<Nils_> i don't know
<penguin42> Nils_: I'd try Popey's suggestion
<Nils_> http://askubuntu.com/questions/124292/what-is-the-correct-way-to-install-ati-catalyst-video-drivers-fglrx/126513#126513
<Nils_> this one?
<penguin42> Nils_: The other thing you might want to check, it's a t500 - does that have both Intel and ATI chips, it might be worth checking the BIOS to force it into ATI ('discrete') mode
<penguin42> yeh that one, anyway time for me to eat
<Nils_> so I am at the step: Installing the lastest ATI/AMD driver
<Nils_> I downloaded it and try to enter the command
<Nils_> sudo sh amd-driver-installer-catalyst-13.1-linux-x86.x86_64.run --buildpkg Ubuntu/precise
<penguin42> Nils_: Actually stop
<Nils_> but it responds
<Nils_> sh: 0: Can't open amd-driver-installer-catalyst-13.1-linux-x86.x86_64.zip.run
<penguin42> ok
<penguin42> Nils_: Check the bios is in discrete AMD mode
<penguin42> Nils_: The error about 'unknown' you got before kind of makes sense for an ATI driver installed but the hardware running on the intel graphics
<penguin42> anyway, really going to get food
<Nils_> So I shut down the computer and when it starts again I press which buttons to get into the bios?
<Nils_> But yeah eat first I can wait
<Nils_> thanks for your help
<popey> Nils_: what make/model of laptop is it?
<popey> ah, lenovo t500?
<Nils_> yes
<popey> one of my co-workers has one
<Nils_> it's neat and I want to keep it
<popey> does it have a blue "thinkvantage" button?
<Nils_> but without steam or apps it's terrible
<popey> at the top of the keyboard
<Nils_> yes
<popey> so thats what you press to interrupt boot
<Nils_> ah ok
<popey> as soon as it comes on, you stab that (It should prompt you to do it actually)
<popey> and it shows a menu, F1 i think takes you to setup
<popey> but it tells you on screen
<Nils_> I will try now
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/189540/how-to-re-configure-graphics-from-intel-integrated-to-intel-ati-switchable
<popey> thats pretty comprehensive
<popey> bookmark that sucker!
<Nils__> I feel so lost
<Nils__> So many commands just don't work
<daftykins> Nils__: like?
<Nils__> something with sh
<Nils__> idk
<Nils__> let me look
<Nils__> nils@nils-ThinkPad-T500:~$ sh test_off.sh sh: 0: Can't open test_off.sh nils@nils-ThinkPad-T500:~$
<Nils__> when I follow this http://askubuntu.com/questions/189540/how-to-re-configure-graphics-from-intel-integrated-to-intel-ati-switchable tutorial
<daftykins> step 1 fails?
<daftykins> Nils__: ?
<daftykins> step 2 running the script?
 * penguin42 burps
<dogmatic69> seems flash is broken on 12.04 with latest updates. Anyone seen this?
<SuperEngineer> Dr, Who time, folks
<dwatkins> The Doctor's Wife is a superb episode, too.
<dwatkins> I found myself watching Scott & Bailey as a result of it.
<zleap> hi tombrough
 * rowinggolfer adds "raring" to his pbuilder setup.
<popey> âº
<blabyboy> join/ ##php
<rowinggolfer> popey, I still wonder how you are going to deprecate 10.04 desktop in April this year, but support the server for a further 2. Are you going to trim the repo of all "non-server" packages?
<popey> no
<popey> packages are tagged
<rowinggolfer> don't understand :(
<rowinggolfer> tagged?
<popey> alan@deep-thought:~$ apt-cache show apache2  | grep Supported
<popey> Supported: 18m
<popey> (I am on raring)
<popey> packages on LTS releases have different tags
<rowinggolfer> hmmm.
<rowinggolfer> here's a question
<rowinggolfer> neil@slim-maroon:~$ apt-cache show apache2 | grep Supported
<rowinggolfer> neil@slim-maroon:~$
<rowinggolfer> ??
<popey> what release you on?
<rowinggolfer> wheezy
<rowinggolfer> ;)
<popey> âº
<rowinggolfer> no fooling popey :(
<rowinggolfer> popey, I'm running 12.04 server at work now.
<rowinggolfer> loving it.
<rowinggolfer> academy@academy:~$ apt-cache show apache2 | grep Supported
<rowinggolfer> Supported: 5y
<rowinggolfer> Supported: 5y
<rowinggolfer> aha..
#ubuntu-uk 2013-02-03
<opensports> Hello peeps, daftykins : you about ??
<daftykins> o/
<solarcloud> Looks like it's left up to us two to Rule the channel, again :D
<solarcloud> ..I looked into getting a 17" laptop today..
<solarcloud> best price was about Â£100 for a Core 2 Duo....
<daftykins> :O
<daftykins> not bad
<penguin42> solarcloud: That's one hell of a lap
<solarcloud> Not really, you always have 50% chance of sending it back to the seller..
<solarcloud> I'm after this one now .. as the other one had key Prob.s  :: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fujitsu-Siemens-Amilo-Li2727-Laptop-17-inch-screen-/170983377593?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D5314456501033362947%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D1%26sd%3D290851828349%26
<solarcloud> soz for the long address.
<solarcloud> he says he'll accept a buy it now offer .. what do you reckon ? ... Â£75 quid ???
<penguin42> http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/laptops/fujitsu-siemens-amilo-li-2727-review-49298555/specs/
<penguin42> was 275 when new about 4.5 years ago
<solarcloud> opening..
<daftykins> those are amazingly bad pics
<penguin42> solarcloud: Pretty poor spec
<solarcloud> agreed.. I'll pass on this as I thought it was Core 2 Duo... thanx guys.
<solarcloud> Hey guys ..  So basically I've got 90 laptop to choose from (as long as they don't go above Â£120 end-bid, that is) from this lot :: http://goo.gl/R0g2P .. It's only for learning more python, so feel free to give it a scan to see if you see any beauties or not. thanx in advance :)
<penguin42> any reason you want a laptop, and what are your specs you want?
 * penguin42 notices the Tesco Outlet; no horse burgers
<solarcloud> hi penguin42, the specs are : 17" screen or more , Â£120 or less, Core Duo or better, must have a clear return for full refund policy. that's basically it, but the Â£120 or less is the killer.
<solarcloud> I hope to sell it on after I put Ubuntu 13.04 on there..
<solarcloud> but that's months away..
<penguin42> ouch that's a pretty low limit
<solarcloud> plenty available though..
<solarcloud> it is just for learning a bit more python.. :)
<solarcloud> Did you click the link above ...
<penguin42> yeh but some of them are spares/repairs - i.e. junk
<solarcloud> Well, that's half the fun, sorting the weak from the chaff... :)
<solarcloud> I have to say I absolutely hate Acer Aspires .. there are alwats loads of them on ebay due to problems ..
<solarcloud> **always..
<solarcloud> Oops .. spotted a con job http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=160968343390
<solarcloud> bettr watch out for them..
<penguin42> ah, I was going to suggest the Tesco acer
<penguin42> a few Tosh on there
<solarcloud> I'll have a look...
<penguin42> solarcloud: Also are you sure you need that size screen?
<solarcloud> the HP's look nice .. ending in 18 hours time, I'll have to hang-on and do a last 6 second bid thingy.
<penguin42> solarcloud: e.g. if you need the size perhaps plugin to a tv?
<solarcloud> I think I need that screen size , why do you ask ?
<penguin42> I guess it restricts your options a lot
<solarcloud> oh ok .. one problem .. I chucked out the TV last year ! ..
<penguin42> oh erm yeh that would be a problem
<solarcloud> not really, 'e never looked back :D
<solarcloud> **I've
 * solarcloud puts his hands in the air as an Expression of Freedom From Tele !!
<daftykins> also a CRT would drop your res, not increase it ;)
<solarcloud> \o/
<penguin42> hmm, don't quite think you can buy a monitor and full machine new for #120 - bet you can do it for #200 including the monitor
<solarcloud> yeah, I want a laptop cos it's for the small space consideration... I think I'll try this one ... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HP-Pavillion-dv9000-17-Entertainment-laptop-2-0GHz-2GB-RAM-Win-Vista-HP-/261161683012?pt=UK_Computing_Laptops_EH&hash=item3cce730844
<solarcloud> but if all else fails I could try my old desktop in the other room and run Lubuntu on it, I guess.
<penguin42> what spec is it?
<solarcloud> The spare monitor I have got is DisplayPort and the desktop is old-type monitor cable (not HD or anything) ... so can I use an adapter or what, peeps ??
<solarcloud> terrible spec. it's a 2004 machine ..
<daftykins> displayport only? are you sure?
<daftykins> that's rare as rocking horse...
<solarcloud> the monitor is yes.
<solarcloud> I'm using three of them now..
<daftykins> i hardly believe it D:
<penguin42> what model?
<solarcloud> Wanna do a hangout and find out ?
<penguin42> nah
<solarcloud> pity the coward, I do.
<daftykins> 'hangout' ?
<solarcloud> Anyway, enough of that . I'm done for saturday .. oh wait.. yeah hangout .. I do it everyday on google plus .. it's a video conference.
<solarcloud> but I'm sure your not interested, so bye.
<daftykins> 0o
<solarcloud> Note to self : Ask Ubuntu TV people what nettop to get to try out the TV software O/S and file countless bugs :)
<solarcloud> by for now :)
<Nils_> Hey guys
<Nils_> I found a solution
<Nils_> I deleted all my drivers and now it works
<Nils_> Should I keep it this way. Which driver do I use now the open source one?
<MartijnVdS> woo Half Life (1) works on Intel graphics :)
 * MartijnVdS now has a proper game to play in Steam on Ubuntu :)
<kala087> hi is there anybody who could help me with linux ubunt?? i am not familiar with system and tried to update but come error and they ask e for grub rescue ??
<czajkowski> kala087: just ask and folks may be able to help
<czajkowski> it's kinda quiet here on a sunday
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: ooh, excellent *downloads*
<brobostigon> good morning everyone,
<kala087> hi has anyone have spare minute?? i have update my com yesterday and come up error and grub resue.?? i am not familair with system at all. any advuce ?? please
<MartijnVdS> yes.. ask a question and leave
<brobostigon> quite,
<kvarley> Is there an ubuntu equivalent for this?
<kvarley> http://susestudio.com
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: http://ubuntustudio.org/ ?
<MartijnVdS> kvarley: or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0qBaBb1Y-U ?
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: Lol
<kvarley> MartijnVdS: I meant is there a GUI based app which will let you make your own ubuntu distro
<bigcalm_laptop> Hazzar
<ali1234> kvarley: you can probably use susestudio with enough hacking around. OBS supports ubuntu
<kvarley> ali1234: OBS?
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: Half-Life runs flawlessly for me, which is interesting, as it required me to install nvidia-common, yet I have an AMD card.
<ali1234> nvidia-common is pulled in by some opengl/opencl stuff
<ali1234> it's just silly dependencies, there's a bug about it somewhere
<dwatkins> ah ok, I'm just concerned as I had to uninstall all the NVidia packages yesterday to allow Unity to work properly, ali1234.
<ali1234> that's kind of weird
<dwatkins> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1741783 seems to address this.
 * penguin42 wonders why translate.google.com managed to detect the polish source text, but offered me translations to Norwegianm English and Spanish (and picked Norwegian by default)
<ali1234> it does that to me all the time
<ali1234> then when you change the destination language it also changes the source language to something wrong
 * penguin42 also wishes they'd integrate into G+ so that you can easily translate a single post
<ali1234> would be nice
<ali1234> integrate all the thing!
<penguin42> yep
<SuperEngineer> hi folkies
<SuperEngineer> anyone tried this? http://tomorrowcorporation.com/littleinferno
<SuperEngineer> [from same stable as World of Goo]
<dwatkins> No, but a friend gives it high praise, SuperEngineer - saw a review on youtube, it looks pretty amusing
<penguin42> haha that does look good; we've got a particle simulation engine and by heck we're going to use it :-)
<SuperEngineer> dwatkins: cheers - got a friend who took my advice re World og Goo - now hooked & wants this as well!
<penguin42> oh that's a fun one; http://apple.slashdot.org/story/13/02/02/225201/typing-these-8-characters-will-crash-almost-any-app-on-your-mountain-lion-mac?utm_source=rss1.0mainlinkanon&utm_medium=feed
<MartijnVdS> oops
<SuperEngineer> hmmm - my installed 12.04 is 12.04.2 - yet download from Ubuntu still points to 12.04.1 - double hmmm
<jacobw> SuperEngineer: if you experienced the confused over 12.04 and 12.04.1 previously, this wouldn't be a suprise to you :p
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: lol
<jacobw> it takes quite a few clicks from the index of ubuntu.com to find the download page now
<SuperEngineer> not to mention being made to feel like a cheapskate just to get a look at what the download image version is before offering Â£Â£Â£
<SuperEngineer> I would even go so far as saying it's a tad insulting
<jacobw> i think it reminds people that producing free software is not without cost
<BigRedS> It does rather remind me of all those "Would you like the Google toolbar for IE?" things in Windows freeware installers
<SuperEngineer> jacobw: agreed - but... don't profer an insult if I want to see what version you offer *before* I cough up
<SuperEngineer> ...and I would like that to be taken as a constructive critism - not a complaint
<SuperEngineer> [darn - really wish my fingers remembered to follow my brain when spelling!]
<Laney> oh god
<Laney> i just realised that the cake tin i'm baking in isn't deep enough and my cake is definitely going to rise over the sides
 * Laney thinks about constructing artificial sides out of foil
<ahayzen> Laney, tht sounds potentially messy ;) wht cake is it?
<Laney> chocolate beetroot
<ahayzen> nice
<Laney> every time i look it's closer
<Laney> and i dont have enough foil arghghgosudhgosdhg
<ahayzen> could put it on baking sheet just in case ;)
<ahayzen> so it doesn't wreck the oven
<Laney> did
<penguin42> yeesh beetroot
<Laney> but i want to save the cake too if possible
<ahayzen> could put another tin of similar size upside down on top lol...gonna have to think of something out of the box (or cake tin hehe)
<Laney> yeah i put the outside of another tin over it
<Laney> who knows what will happen
<ahayzen> only one way to find out ;)
<brobostigon> question, would it be possible, to use something like a ssh tunnel, between my rpi and my vps? and have traffic able to flow both ways?
<zleap> brobostigon, i can't see why not ,  a pi is just another linux box
<brobostigon> zleap: i just havent found a simple enough solution yet, i have read about vpn's and ssh tunnels and other solutions also.
<zleap> ok
<zleap> can you do it between 2 normal linux boxes
<brobostigon> ssh, yes,
<zleap> ok
<zleap> so what is the VPN virtual private network,  so basically you want a secure link between 2 or more computers
<brobostigon> yes.
<brobostigon> same as an ssh tunnel.
<zleap> ok
<brobostigon> more or less,
<jacobw> brobostigon: run openvpn on your vps and use a tap device
<zleap> i am not an expert at this,  but i am guessing it should be possible as te PI is just running Linux,  maybe ask on #raspberrypi o
<zleap> tap device
<zleap> ?
<brobostigon> jacobw: that is what i have been looking at,
<popey> you could use openvpn
<jacobw> yeah, if you use openvpn with a tap device you'll get an interface with a routeable address on pi and on the vps
<brobostigon> ah. i see, that could be useful.
<jacobw> sorry, tun, not tap
<jacobw> tap is l2, tun is l3
<zleap> ?
<jacobw> https://community.openvpn.net/openvpn/wiki/BridgingAndRouting
 * zleap is baffled
<zleap> ah vpn stuff, i thought for a min you were talking about people
<brobostigon> jacobw: yes, thats what i am reading,
<jacobw> zleap: tap and tun devices are virtual network devices in the kernel, openvpn can give you an ethernetâethernet adapter to send frames through which is a tap device or a networkânetwork adapter which is a tun device to send packets through
<zleap> ok
<jacobw> i dunno how i could have been talking about people o_O
<zleap> its fine,  didn't know what tap and tun was
<brobostigon> jacobw: ok, question, is it possible to do the authentication without certificates?
<jacobw> brobostigon: you can use a preshared key or usernames and passwords
<brobostigon> jacobw: ah, i think i just found a page on the openvpn site about it.
<jacobw> remember you don't have to use passphrases on keys, you can leave them unwrapped and readable only by the system user to be used by services
<brobostigon> interesting,
<popey> AlanBell: are your ears burning?
<popey> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/1030/jblive/
<popey> your blog post being talked about
<popey> #jupiterbroadcasting on irc.geekshed.net
<AlanBell> hi popey
<popey> hello
<AlanBell> what is jupiter broadcasting?
<popey> AlanBell: podcast
<popey> Linux Action Show
<AlanBell> ah, that has a reddit thing, I got some hits from that to the blog article
<bigcalm> Hola
<popey> moo
<bigcalm> How do?
<popey> meh
<bigcalm> That good eh? :)
<bigcalm> Having had the week off, I should be feeling quite relaxed
<bigcalm> Instead I'm just thinking about tomorrow morning
<bigcalm> Headphones in, code up. Hayley is catching up on Dancing on Ice
<popey> hello JohnRobert
<JohnRobert> hello
<popey> BigRedS_: back home?
<BigRedS_> popey, yeah
<BigRedS_> well, back in London, my soon-to-be home again :)
<directhex> ADORABLE KITTEN ALERT! Rub ivanova's tummy, she grabs at your hand & starts to lick
<daftykins> ;)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-27
<Myrtti> MORNING SWEETUMS
<MartijnVdS> \o Myrtti
<MartijnVdS> Laney: congratifications!
<mapps> hello
<mapps> MORNING Myrtti  MartijnVdS
<mapps> :D
<mapps> morning TheOpenSourcerer
<TheOpenSourcerer> Morning all.
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<arsen> goood morning :)
<mapps> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<mapps> hey diplo
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Bubble Wrap Appreciation Day! :-D  http://www.virtual-bubblewrap.com/popnow.shtml
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<MartijnVdS> JamesTait: according to G+, it's also Laney day :)
<Laney> little ol' me
<Laney> glamorous birthday purchase #1: replacement curtain cord
<directhex> fancy
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> hello Dad
<SuperMatt> o.O
 * SuperMatt has ordered a nexus 5 with his first paycheque
<MartijnVdS> \o/ n5
<SuperMatt> :d
<SuperMatt> :d
<SuperMatt> :D
<SuperMatt> that's better
<MartijnVdS> *\o/*
<SuperMatt> I must have had capslock on for a sec
<dwatkins> Caps lock is cruise control for cool...
<SuperMatt> roffles
<popey> what phone is it replacing?
<popey> and how long before it stops getting android updates? â»
<SuperMatt> hah, good question
<SuperMatt> but it's replacing my s3
<MartijnVdS> popey: probably around the time that Ubuntu Phone updates start coming? ;)
<brobostigon> i could still update my htc dream with android version up untill android 4 which still worked on it, so that was alot of updates.
<dwatkins> My HTC Desire HD is still running Gingerbread, Android 2.3.
<directhex> sighdroid
<dwatkins> sighanogenmod
<popey> sighphone
<popey> sighos
<popey> my ipad is ios5, lots of apps have starting being crap on it
<popey> like chrome crashing all the time, and 4od no longer working, and forcing you to go to the app store to update, where you find it requires ios 6 â¹
<popey> #fml
<Myrtti> fix my life :-P
<nigelb> Myrtti++
<brobostigon> fixmybrain.com
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: just spray this on it: http://i.imgur.com/olKX9Yo.jpg
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: haha
<directhex> popey, what vintage of ipad?
<popey> first one
<dwatkins> so you can't upgrade it any more? :(
<bigcalm> Would jail breaking it increase longevity in any way?
<dwatkins> probably not, unless you count the ability to play MAME games on it as a feature ;)
<dwatkins> I've been considering getting an old iPad for this reason.
<jussi> ooh a mame games machine... :D
<dwatkins> yeah, there was a game in the app-store which allowed you to manually copy MAME games to the iPad, but it doesn't seem to exist any more, so it's JailBreak only if you want to use it for that.
<dwatkins> I bought an 8-bitty bluetooth controller for it, it works with some games.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: or, you know, don't buy locked-down apple stuff ;)
<dwatkins> MartijnVdS: let's not sidetrack this discussion ;)
<dwatkins> I have an original Nexus 7 as well, although it's a bit slow compared to more recent Android tablets, I imagine.
<shauno> that really wouldn't help much, would it?  I mean, the first galaxy tab is a similar vintage, and that won't go past Gingerbread
<dwatkins> This Nexus 7 is on Android 4.3, iirc.
 * dwatkins plugs it in for the first time in 1.5 weeks
<davmor2> Morning all
<shauno> well, I more mean that if you bought a galaxy tab in 2010, and a 1st gen ipad in 2010.  4od requires ios6 or android 4.0+, and the devices won't go past 2.3.6/ios5 respectively
<shauno> so "don't buy locked-down apple stuff" is a nice easy cheapshot, but you'd end up in exactly the same position
<jussi> Im still umming about whether to wait for the new galaxy tab pro 8.4 or go for the n7 2013
<Monotoko_> what would be the best way to set up a live stream, and stream to China?
<Monotoko_> without it lagging like dial up in the 90's
<MartijnVdS> !xyproblem
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<Monotoko_> haha - right, I have a friend in China who I would like to watch some movies with, maybe some music, maybe some live video in real time
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko_: do you have the upstream bandwidth required?
<Monotoko_> MartijnVdS: I have 300mbit/s on a VPS
<MartijnVdS> Monotoko_: you could try something like skype, maybe? (I don't know what the do and don't block)
<shauno> have you tried anything yet to see what the latency's actually like?
<MartijnVdS> or just a web server?
<dwatkins> how about both streaming from the same source, assuming that's possible for you both, Monotoko_?
<Monotoko_> Skype is blocked... most things are blocked, so I was going to get something locally on the box
<Monotoko_> and stream it out
<dwatkins> aw shame
<Monotoko_> and I haven't tried it yet - I attempted with VLC, but I can't receive MP4 from it... was wondering if I should keep attempting with that, or if there is something a bit less fidly to set up?
<dwatkins> mplayer should play an mp4 stream
<dwatkins> or do you mean for sending a stream?
<Monotoko_> I need something to broadcast from the server... then I need to receive the stream on my home PC (receiving it seems easy enough, sending it is the difficult bit)
<MartijnVdS> webrtc?
<dwatkins> I can watch video off my linux machine streaming via apache to various applications.
<shauno> http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/hangouts/O3gbSBIZEbA   looks like it could be worth a shot
<Monotoko_> hm - there is just the VPN suggestion
<Monotoko_> which I have already tried
<Monotoko_> the chinese net blocked it somewhere upstream
<shauno> the second reply seems to believe that one-to-one hangouts work fine, but not 'broadcasts' (?  don't use hangouts, so I'm not sure what this references).  just thinking it's something that'd take 2 minutes to test
<Monotoko_> google.cn redirects her to google.com.hk which is then blocked
<Monotoko_> >.>
<shauno> fair enough.  I just like to see if someone else has already solved it for me first :)
<popey> yeah, we use hangouts, they work, but hangouts on air don't, for people from China
<popey> because youtube
<Monotoko_> so how come she can't access google.cn?
<Dave2> because google.cn doesn't exist any more
<Dave2> Well, the domain does, but Google pulled out from China.
<Monotoko_> bah - this is driving me crazy haha
<Monotoko_> I will keep trying with VLC - if I can get it to stream she should be able to tune into it
<brobostigon> that was funny, someone on daily politics just george osborne a psychopath.
<brobostigon> called*
<bashrc> sounds fairly accurate
<brobostigon> without any doubt accurate
<brobostigon> i fell out of my chair laughing.
<directhex> i'm pretty sure he doesn't meet the definition of psychopath
<directhex> perhaps sociopath
<brobostigon> it was a good joke anyways.
<davmor2> directhex, brobostigon: Ass I think is the term you are after well at least the politest version you can type here
<brobostigon> that also works.
<dwatkins> that's probably an insult to donkeys
<davmor2> dwatkins: indeed but I can't really say what I'd like too :)
 * brobostigon makes notes, to write a cartoon for private eye.
<foobarry> i was bought a massive book of private eye cartoons for xmas
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> didn't ask for it :S
<foobarry> had other stuff on my amazon list..
<popey> yeah, damn those family members, why can't they just buy whats on my list
<foobarry> looks like it cost Â£25 or something
<foobarry> better read it i suppose
<davmor2> popey: does your list start with the cheapest item at Â£1000?
<dwatkins> I got a Rubik's Cube for christmas.
<popey> i think mine has things for 2-3 quid on it
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/registry/wishlist/29FWHGD2GAECA
<dwatkins> I approve of your choice of compilation CDs, popey
<dwatkins> regarding quadcopters, I'm very tempted to get one of those, too
<davmor2> popey: did you specifically say only buy me stuff from here it's what I need?
<TheOpenSourcerer> I got (amongst other things) a Bombay Bad Boy Pot Noodle for Christmas. Which I am about to eat :-D
<directhex> they're not really from bombay
<dwatkins> I bet they're not bad boys, either.
<TheOpenSourcerer> Probably both true.
<diplo> Horrible horrible things
<diplo> popey: How is the remote controlled thing going ?
<popey> not worked on it yet
<popey> i mean, the bot is built, but i need some components
<diplo> Might try something similar with my boys soon, thought it was a great idea.. had to wait till payday though
<diplo> Having a blonde moment here, have a vps with a few Virtual domains on it
<diplo>  /etc/hosts set to use our main domain so ip <domain> <hostname>
<diplo> Yet if I go to the IP it resolves on of the other domains from virtual hosts
<diplo> Trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong, could this just be a dns propagation/hosts set up thing, changed dns on friday afternoon but forgot to change hosts file till this morning
<DJones> Stupid BT, move depots from place to another, change phone supplier, new supplier notifies BT of change & arranges transfer of a couple of numbers, we notify BT that we won't be using them at new premises and we're moving out of the old one & to cancel all services, 4 months later, still getting bills for phone lines, ring them up, they cancel bills & backdate, then 6 months later we get bills for broadband on lines that were cancelled
<MartijnVdS> DJones: yay paperwork
<diplo> Sounds very much like my interactions with BT DJones :/
<MartijnVdS> "But.. you can't not want to pay us!"
<DJones> Yep, although I'm sure it'll be 100 times worse when we move from the current provider.....TalkTalk....Cough, splutter
<diplo> Was so happy when we outsourced all interaction with BT to a third party
<diplo> Saved us loads and they had much better contacts than us up the management levels
<knightwise> morning everyone
<foobarry> my window manager crashed :(
<foobarry> too many chrome tabs open
<foobarry> maybe i need a swap partition
<foobarry> *file
<foobarry> that deepmind company was only 18 months old and had 75 employees. $400M
<popey> 16131 root      20   0  431660 108624  93692 S  12.9  0.7   0:05.73 Xorg
<popey> well, that's one way to get xorg memory usage down
<popey> it dying
<MartijnVdS> rebootign?
<MartijnVdS> popey: did you file a bug about it yet?
<popey> was in the middle of working when suddenly logon screen
<popey> yes
<foobarry> popey: me too :P
<foobarry> but i was using gala
<popey> bug
<popey> bah
<popey> bug 1272338
<lubotu3> bug 1272338 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Xorg memory leak on trusty" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1272338
<foobarry> i opened facebook tab. was the last straw
<MartijnVdS> popey: ah it's in the intel driver? Good thing I haven't rebooted for a while then :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: (I thought you were on nvidia?)
<popey> laptop
<popey> x220 = intel, desktop = nvidia
<popey> (although desktop has onboard intel which is disabled)
<MartijnVdS> I installed 12.04 on a machine with a Via Unichrome the other day
<MartijnVdS> that's *horribly* slow
<MartijnVdS> so if anyone has an AGP Geforce or Radeon that can run Unity in 3D mode.. I'll pay for shipping :)
<popey> i may have one
<popey> remind me this evening to have a rummage
<MartijnVdS> ok :) thanks
<foobarry> only just realised there awas a new series of big bang
<foobarry> oh..even more weird. i've seen teh earlier ones before xmas
<foobarry> so they just didn't show eps 8 and 9 until now
<JGJones> I also might have one thanks to a old Shuttle PC that just gave up the ghost - I have no idea if the graphics is up to par for Unity but I'll check
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: \o/
<JGJones> OK got the PC out of the garage... MartijnVdS - it's a ATI Radeon VE - any good? It's AGP at least.
<JGJones> There was a nvidia one, but it's in silcon heaven - I thought I had taken it to the dump but nope, got it here still.
<MartijnVdS> that should support OpenGL 1.4 according to wikipedia
<JGJones> I'm happy to post it to you if you want to test it.
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: yeah, I've tried an old Nvidia, but it had also died
<MartijnVdS> I'm not even going to try the PCI S3 Trio ;)
<JGJones> ohh there's also a WinTV-NOVA-T in it too (I completely forgot about that) - anyone want it?
<JGJones> (I don't get freeview here so it's no good for me)
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: The Interwebs seem to agree that 3d on the Radeon 7000 (also known as VE) is not (well) supported
<MartijnVdS> thanks for looking anyway :)
<JGJones> No worries :)
<diplo> MartijnVdS: If popey doesn't find one, I should have a few AGP cards in the loft
<MartijnVdS> diplo: Cool :)
<popey> i cant look till later
<diplo> me either
<MartijnVdS> no problem, I'm at work too :)
<diplo> Lots of offers, just read up after typing that in
<diddledan> I'm at homework :-p
<diddledan> morning btw :-)
<MartijnVdS> \o diddledan
<foobarry> picked up depeche mode biolator for 1.99 on google play \o/
<foobarry> ^bio^vio
<JGJones> Hmm - does anyone have an IDE to USB that they don't really want anymore? Time to take all the stuff off the HDD on this Shuttle before I take it to the dump?
<MartijnVdS> JGJones: ye olde IDE or SATA?
<diddledan> ye olde before-IDE :-p
<diddledan> beware the IDEs of March
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: MFM?
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: no idea what it was called :-p
<MartijnVdS> "the one used in XTs"
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: required a separate controller board
 * JGJones looks...I can't remember what they was called back then anymore!
<diddledan> yeah I think so
<JGJones> I think SATA...it's a parallel cable - along with a master-slave relationship
<JGJones> the mobo is for an AMD Athlon XP if that helps?
<diddledan> JGJones: that's IDE
<diddledan> SATA is Serial
<MartijnVdS> IDE = PATA = Parallel ATA
<diddledan> it's the moderm one
<JGJones> whew so I guessed right :D
<diddledan> yup :-)
<MartijnVdS> = AT Attachment (= 16-bit ISA bus in disguise.. yeah really)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: so our modern SATA is still 16bit inside?! :-o
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: nah, SATA refreshed the spec a lot
<diddledan> whew
<directhex> your CPU still is, though
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the 16-bit thing was ATA-1, the "original" IDE
<directhex> every modern Intel or AMD CPU still contains a functional 16-bit 8086
<MartijnVdS> directhex: though it'll be hard to get to from 64-bit mode
 * MartijnVdS looked that up a few weeks ago
<directhex> you can't get to it from 64-bit mode
<directhex> but you can't boot in BIOS mode without starting in 16-bit mode
<MartijnVdS> sure
<shauno> I Think you should be able to, but it'd be suicide for the OS?
<directhex> it doesn't mean anything
<directhex> BIOS means 16-bit
<JGJones> so what happens in UEFI? It doesn't start in 16-bit mode does it?
<directhex> BIOS GRUB is 16-bit 8086 machine code, at least the stage 1 is
<directhex> UEFI is native to that platform. amd64 on amd64 systems, i386 on i386 systems. ia64 on ia64 systems. arm on arm systems
<directhex> i386 on some amd64 macs. sigh
<diddledan> macs aren't true UEFI - they're EFI-only
<JGJones> What's the difference?
<directhex> spec vintage
<diddledan> their implementation predates the UEFI spec
<JGJones> Might that be why it's a pain in the arse to install ubuntu on Apple hardware?
<diddledan> I've never had a problem installing ubuntu
<directhex> EFI came into existence because Itanium doesn't contain an 8086 - so BIOS is no good
<JGJones> diddledan: I can't install Ubuntu on my macbook pro (it's a 9,1 model - 15" macbook pro, late 2012, non-retina)
<shauno> I sort of can but I don't consider it successful.  but I have to remove my hdd to do so
<JGJones> However Linux Mint does install on the macbook pro. Ubuntu just don't - boot into a black screen, nothing working, not even get to see grub. I want ubuntu because I do like Unity.
<shauno> installing from usb or dvd?
<JGJones> Been a while - I did do both method, but I don't remember which got further for Ubuntu.
<davmor2> directhex: I thought mac was using it's version before itanium but maybe I got my history wrong.  There was a very good write up over the weekend
<directhex> davmor2, itanium is late 90s. apple switched in mid naughties
<shauno> mac had openfirmware pre-itanium, since they were still on ppc.  they move to efi with the intel switch in 2005/6
<davmor2> directhex: ah right yeah I have a feeling that It was written up as mac were the first wide users of it maybe?
<directhex> itanium was TOTALLY widespread, in my happy place in my mind
<davmor2> directhex: no so much in the real world though right :)
<shauno> on mine (8,2, the model before yours), if I install from internal optical it'll install in bios-emulation mode, which sort of works, but with lousy powermanagement and no gpu switching (so it runs hot, gets about 1/6th battery life, etc)
<directhex> that place sucks & i avoid it
<shauno> if I install from usb it has to be via efi (apple's bios-emulation only works for sata or firewire), and then I gain powermanagement, but don't have any video unless I can force the machine and the OS to agree on which gpu they're using
<davmor2> directhex, JGJones: http://www.happyassassin.net/2014/01/25/uefi-boot-how-does-that-actually-work-then/
<davmor2> that's a pretty good write up on uefi bit long winded but fairly easy to follow
<shauno> I have some notes somewhere; out-of-the-box I get no video at all, with some outb commands in grub's command line I can bring the video back, but mid-boot it disappears again.  and I still haven't figured out the right voodoo to actually blacklist the radeon modules to prevent that part
<shauno> (if you remember peek/poke, inb/outb will be familiar yet terrifying)
<diddledan> shauno: I remember inb and outb from messing with rudimentary vga programming
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> shauno: I built my own (bad) kernel which did absolutely sod-all
<diddledan> called it "monsteros" :-p
<diddledan> <-- honey monster, afterall
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: Inquiring minds need to know, was it Bombay , was it bad and was it a boy?
<TheOpenSourcerer> davmor2: Well, I enjoyed it. It was bad, probably male, not sure about the Bombay bit.
<davmor2> popey: where did you get your nice vim/vi cheat sheet from please
<davmor2> keep meaning to ask you :)
<popey> http://vimcheatsheet.com/
<davmor2> popey: thanks
<davmor2> TheOpenSourcerer: haha
<czajkowski> Laney: davmor2 popey https://plus.google.com/u/0/+LauraCzajkowski/posts/djAbrvcfSem  :)
<Laney> he looks puzzled / concerned by all things
<czajkowski> Laney: he is he has a small ball he can put his mouth around
<czajkowski> keeps him well entertained
<davmor2> czajkowski: why, why, why do you torment that poor dog till he looks like that?
<MartijnVdS> "You put WHAT? WHERE?"
<Laney> see if he can get in those demijohns
<czajkowski> davmor2: fun bath times :)
 * Laney has earl grey truffles
<Laney> most curious
<davmor2> Laney: sometimes I worry that there are things wrong in your head, the rest of the time I know there is :D
<Laney> come on, a pug in a demijohn would be seriously cute
<Laney> like a ship in a bottle
<diddledan> Laney: like this: http://bonsaikitten.com/
<Laney> zackly
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: people were so angry about that site once :)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: that's why I remember it
<foobarry> if i wanted a small piece of nice pine about 14 inches x 8 x 2, can you pick that up in teh offcuts section in B&Q?
<foobarry> not sure how b&q works
<MartijnVdS> from sharknado.. to catnado: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25902371
<JGJones> shauno: seem you got further than me. Ubuntu just result in a blank screen, utterly nothing I can do with it. Linux Mint on other hand works just fine even though it's ubuntu based. Look like Ubuntu need to borrow their voodoo.
<red__> hi all
<red__> so I am trying to listen to streaming radio on  ubuntu and using chrome where the player should be it reads that there is a plug in missing - but it not tell me which one, advice please#
<mapps>  hm
<mapps> afternoon
<daftykins> hi mapps, how's it going?
<mapps> not bad mae..you?
<mapps> just messing with some php and ajax :) gonna watch sleepers soon too..never seen it!!
<daftykins> hmm not heard of that, recent or old film?
<daftykins> yeah not bad ty, just 'hacked' some old nvidia drivers onto an ancient Windows XP PC with an nvidia vanta card i'm looking at for a friend :D
<ali1234> vanta really sucks... i mean really... it's like a TNT card
<mapps> old dide
<ali1234> i had to put one in an old XP computer because the real video card died
<mapps> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117665/
<mapps> daftykins,  looks good  1996 good rating..good cast
<daftykins> ali1234: yeah it's quite funny seeing it struggling on my 1920x1200 screen - it blanks briefly if i visit youtube and watch a video :D
<ali1234> yeah it would freeze every 5 seconds @ 1280x1024 and youtube was unusable
<ali1234> seriously just get a GT610 they are like Â£20
<daftykins> no, i've told the client to replace the whole machine since XP is dead in April
<daftykins> the rest of it is an Athlon64 3400+ with 1GB RAM, so it's just not worth spending on
<daftykins> AGP too
<daftykins> VIA K8T800 mobo, nasty chipset
<mapps> ive got an old amd athlon 64 with 4 gb ram running xubuntu:D
<daftykins> yeah if it had even 2GB RAM and a sane graphics card i'd have considered suggesting to put windows 7 on
<daftykins> but it's just not worth it
<ali1234> yeah that's pretty much the same machine i was dealing with... got a new one to replace it
<daftykins> hmm what was the old calculation for video card memory use?
<mapps> why not xubuntu daftykins ?
<mapps> OR LUBUNTU?
<daftykins> resolution X x Y x bit-depth gives bits?
<ali1234> lubuntu isn't very active these days
<ali1234> xubuntu is though
<ali1234> x * y * bit depth gives the framebuffer size in bits, yes
<daftykins> mapps: they'll use it to hang onto the ancient QuickBooks accounting software, plus i will never put Linux in for a client - simply not sane :)
<ali1234> but how it's stored on the card might be different
<daftykins> yeah
<ali1234> like it might always be stored as 32 bit/4 bytes
<daftykins> just gives an amusing idea of how paltry 16MB is for modern use
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> HD is like an 8mb famebuffer
<ali1234> but anything modern is going to use heaps of texture memory anyway
<daftykins> hmm so as an example, 1280x1024 x 32-bit / 1048576 = 40MB
<ali1234> ...no
<mapps> AHA
<mapps> i have old mchines galore
<mapps> :D
<mapps> but
<daftykins> *MiB ? :D
<ali1234> 40 megabits... 5 megabytes
<daftykins> ah that was my first idea but i abandoned it
<daftykins> as i took the bit value of the megabyte i thought i was skipping a step
<ali1234> but you didn't...
<daftykins> hmm?
<ali1234> 1048576 is the number of bytes in 1 megabyte
<daftykins> nah i took the byte value yeah :(
<daftykins> silly me.
<mapps> :D
<daftykins> can tell my degree wasn't comp sci, i could smugly do all this but have less of an appreciation for practical matters ;)
<dutchie> pfft. practical matters are overrated
<daftykins> dutchie: ;D
<mapps> god too many remotes
<mapps> tv time
<mapps> :)
<mapps> although gets annoying seen every how i met your mo/big bang theory e4 show
<mapps> theyt repeat everything too often
<lornajane> can anyone tell me what unity actually does when I plug in a second monitor (or unplug it)?
<lornajane> My touchscreen misconfigures itself every time, and I dock and undock this machine often!  I have a script to fix it, but I have to run it so often
<daftykins> mapps: i avoid that by not having broadcast connected up ;)
<mapps> heh
<mapps> not sure lornajane
<mapps> both are good though daftykins  or you not like?>
<mapps> just a case that e4 do things to death
<mapps> i mean they did the same with scrubs..run them relentlessly
<daftykins> mapps: i only know Big Bang Theory, which i watch yeah
<mapps> ah
<lornajane> mapps: do you know where I might look/ask to find out?  I don't seem to know the right words for google
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> have you tried the ubuntu help pages
<mapps> tvs atrocious at weekends /during the day daftykins  this period till 8/9 is when theres watchable stuff on:P
<daftykins> lornajane: what exactly gets misconfigured?
<lornajane> daftykins: I have a touch screen laptop.  I have to run a script with a setwacom command in it every time my screen gets resized
<popey> lornajane: how do you mean by "misconfigures"?
<popey> I attach/unattach my laptop to a screen multiple times a day, and it does the "right thing" each time
<lornajane> unity seems to also like to shuffle my windows between desktops, but that's probably an unrelated problem
<popey> yeah, that can happen
<lornajane> popey: my screens are right, but I need to re-run my wacom thing
<popey> oh
<lornajane> I am looking to hook the two together, if at all possible
<popey> yes, i see
<popey> thats been broken forever
<popey> i filed a bug in ~2006
<popey> oh, 2009
<popey> bug 434247
<lubotu3> bug 217182 in acpi-support (Ubuntu) "duplicate for #434247 Rotate Screen in TabletPC stylus and pointer mouse not coincidence" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/217182
<popey> 6 digit bug numbers
 * popey looks whistfully into the past
<daftykins> D
<daftykins> * :D
<lornajane> so I should just run my script on a 5-minute cron and not worry about it?  It's not like I point a lot, but there are lots of things I can't do that the touch screen helps with
<popey> "that'll be fixed with mir"
<popey> shitcanonicalpeoplesay dot tumblr dot com
<popey> yeah, can't see it being fixed soon
<lornajane> I have another set of custom scripts to rotate both screen and touchscreen for when I flip the screen over to make an overgrown tablet - don't do that a lot though so it's less annoying
<mapps> love watching the chase
<mapps> altohugh more often than not i cant answer many :)
<mapps> what to do
<diddledan> http://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6261-sky-parental-controls-break-jquery-website.html
<diddledan> the great british firewall in action
<daftykins> i'd not like to be on an ISP doing that
<daftykins> but it sounds like you can turn it all off?
<diddledan> you can until cameron decides to enforce it
<daftykins> ah well, just gotta hope the Guernsey government doesn't blindly follow yours (:
<diddledan> the ISPs have proven that the tech can be made to do it so now all it needs is the government to decide to make it a legal requirement
<diddledan> the government position could potentially become "well you've implemented it all now, it'ld be a shame to let it go to waste"
<MartijnVdS> once they break enough stuff (gov't websites?) they might back down
<daftykins> hopefully it's more complex than that
<daftykins> i thought i read something about telecommunications or so not being allowed to be modified - by law, recently
<daftykins> by the carrier i mean
<diddledan> supposedly yes
<MartijnVdS> the common carrier/mere conduit stuff
<diddledan> but is it modified telecommunication to not allow the communication?
<MartijnVdS> "If you touch it, you're liable. If you don't touch it, you're not"
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it implies knowledge of what is (or would be) transferred
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah filtering counts as modifying
<diddledan> daftykins: is there legal precedent to that effect?\
<daftykins> there may come a time when my local gov. will need some educating from Mr. Privacy himself, here on IRC
<daftykins> diddledan: unfortunately i can't remember what i read in enough detail :(
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> oh well
<diddledan> I'll carry-on donating to the FSF and hope they protect me :-p
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> in other news, a branch of GCHQ (I believe it was anywho) have announced that ubuntu is the most secure of the widely available "popular" operating systems
<diddledan> pitting xp, 7, os x, ubuntu, ios and android against each other
<daftykins> i was going to ask - was it the only Linux? :)
<diddledan> they might have included 8 and RT too
<diddledan> I think it was, yes
<diddledan> the only linux, I mena
<diddledan> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/01/ubuntu-12-04-secure-os-uk-government-gchq
<daftykins> though from what little of the Snowden shenanigans i've followed, cryptography has still been greatly affected by certain agencies' agendas, so there are still issues within technologies used within Linux, no?
<diddledan> yeah, I heard rumour that openssl was influenced by the NSA (and potentially otherS)
<daftykins> so are all our SSH usages under threat?
<diddledan> potentially, yeah
<diddledan> the problem is without hard evidence you can't really prove one way or another until <insert bad thing here> happens
<daftykins> *nod*
<diddledan> cryptography is such a dark art as it is that it can be almost impossible to determine whether a given implenmentation is flawed just by studying the code
<daftykins> i wonder if it's tough to find great mathematicians that are also great coders
<knightwise> hey everyone
<knightwise> anyone have any good ideas on how to reset an X session in XFCE ? after i plugged the laptop in to an external monitor... I get a black screen after login
<daftykins> any clues in your Xorg log?
<diddledan> knightwise: you killed it :-p
<knightwise> I think so
<mapps> hm
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: xfce didn't expect you to have a modern enough PC for that ;)
<mapps> this ciders too sugary
<mapps> can still feel it on my teeth
<mapps> even though brushed them since
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: I would leave in a huff .. if I had a desktop :p
<daftykins> leave what? :)
<knightwise> daftykins: the room :)
<daftykins> desktops are great!
<diddledan> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2014/01/chromium-npapi-flash-dropped-april-2014
<knightwise> is there some dpkg reconfigure command I could try ?
<daftykins> knightwise: so you had an external display hooked up, extended to? used instead of? then shutdown with it attached?
<knightwise> had it connected , it went mirrored, then it "switched back" to one screen and went dark
 * knightwise did a bad bad thing ? 
<daftykins> and that blackness is persisting across reboots?
<knightwise> unfortunately
<knightwise> when I log in it throws me back into the login window at first (i get a graphical login screen) , next time I log in .. its all blackness
<daftykins> ah yeah so that does sound like session issues separate to X
<knightwise> quite probably
<daftykins> maybe there's a .xfce home folder you can rename temporarily
<daftykins> i'm sure someone here will know better
<knightwise> erm.. and i can find that where ?
<knightwise> in my home directory ?
<daftykins> potentially ~/.config/xfce...
<daftykins> also .cache and .local apparently 0o
<knightwise> there is xfce4 and xfce4 session
<daftykins> so try renaming them to ignore their potential config
<daftykins> which granted, is a pretty nuke approach to the situation
<knightwise> ok
<knightwise> i give it a try.
<knightwise> rebooting , holdon
<daftykins> anyone feel free to jump in and tell me what a useless approach i'm taking ^_^
<knightwise> That did the trick !
<knightwise> logged back in
<knightwise> only lost my wallpaper and a couple of settings
<knightwise> not much
<knightwise> thanx daftykins
 * knightwise is thinking about installing the ubuntu desktop just in case 
<knightwise> because that worked just peachy with my 2 screens
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> no problem sir
<MartijnVdS> popey: ping :)
<MartijnVdS> popey: (re: AGP card)
<popey> MartijnVdS: i think i may have binned it, i cant find any agp cards â¹
<MartijnVdS> popey: np :) thanks for looking!
<popey> np
<daftykins> hehe i was just dealing with a ghetto system that could've done with a newer AGP card
<daftykins> ebay has some nice Â£6 geforce4 MX's :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: do those do unity 3d? :)
<daftykins> lol
<MartijnVdS> it's "NV10" series. OpenGL 1.2, not 1.4
<daftykins> so the use-case involves running Unity?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: Unity 3D, or fast Unity 3D
<MartijnVdS> uh 2D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: it has Via UNichrome now.. only slight 2D acceleration. Slowness.
<daftykins> erk!
<daftykins> almost anything would be better than that
<MartijnVdS> yes :)
<daftykins> i remember setting up a server with a VIA integrated, using the driver caused server 2008 to BSOD
<daftykins> not that the driver gave anything better than default
<daftykins> alrighty i'm heading off to my lounge, bbl \o
<MartijnVdS> \o
<diddledan> hang on. at home. in the lounge. and NOT on IRC?!
<diddledan> seriously, what is the world coming to when people have real life things they do?!
<brobostigon-quas> i wonder if the dwp should be advertising a job of which its job description is, 'catalogue distributor',
<diddledan> brobostigon-quas: sounds like the kind of thing the government want to encourage more of, no?
<diddledan> especially for those that are on sickness benefit and can't actually do "normal" work
<diddledan> (caveat: I was a long-term sick person before I got a job, so I know what it's like to be forced into work when you're not able)
<brobostigon-quas> the issue here is, the government believes in the minimum wage,
<brobostigon-quas> and or the working wage,
<brobostigon-quas> thats no longer equal them then advertising such jobs.
<awilkins> Whhat kind of AGP cards did people want
<awilkins> I have a sysadmin contact at Southampton uni who is apparently clearing a shedload of them out
<diddledan> the dwp listings are just like any other agency's listings.. completely unvetted and automated
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, AGP?
<brobostigon-quas> exactly diddledan
<awilkins> From experience, the ones on NHS Jobs are completely wrung of any useful information before being posted
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yeah, it's an old machine I'm rescuing by putting Ubuntu on it instead of XP (owner has no money for a new machine, but a â¬20 graphics card to have it "go" for another year should be enough)
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Go and poke pixelguff on irc.foonetic.net / #bibeogaem
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: thanks, adding to my list :)
<brobostigon> just applied for a job as a chef, i seemed to fit the bill.
<diddledan> anyone got a spare 60k+?
<diddledan> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JURASSIC-PARK-Velociraptor-Cage-Crate-1993-Original-Screen-Used-Movie-Prop-/390756055657
<shauno> (and a spare velociraptor?)
<MartijnVdS> SHOOT HER
<MartijnVdS> SHOOT HER!
<MartijnVdS> *fade to black*
<moreati> the auction claims to include a velociraptor but <montypython>it's only a model</montypython>
<Myrtti> not Barney?
<popey> pip pip
<brobostigon> cool, minecraft has snow
<diddledan> why am I getting spams appearing in my inbox from <insertrandomname>@nokiamail.com?
<diddledan> they're of the sort that aren't actually trying to sell me anything - just a greeting and that's it
<diddledan> hmm yahoo uses some weird protocol called "NNFMP"?
<diddledan> (it seems nokiamail.com uses yoohoo?)
<diddledan> wtf? the weatherman who used to do the morning slot with the floating map of britain (in a harbour) is being charged with 10 sex offences - they seem to be charging everyone ever who was on the telly in the 80s
<diddledan> I'm not saying there isn't a case to answer. only the jury can decide that. it's just crazy the number of celebs that have been arrested of late
<diddledan> they can't _all_ be bad, right? right?!
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-28
<daftykins> diddledan: yeah it's becoming a bit crazy the whole sex scandal stuff, don't know whether it's legit or what
<daftykins> though a mates uncle apparently said something about such things being a lot more acceptable back in the day :S
<daftykins> whatever that means
<diddledan> daftykins: sorta like <croaky old-man voice>"back in my day you could fiddle with whoever you liked"?</croaky>
<diddledan> I think rather than it being acceptable it was more not known and/or swept under the carpet and placed behind closed doors
<daftykins> could well be
<daftykins> i'm a bit torn though 'cause you've got the likes of Rolf Harris as a national treasure that will likely never work again, regardless of which way the court ruling goes
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> I really don't want the stories of Rolf to be true
<daftykins> but obviously justice should be served =/
<diddledan> indeed
<daftykins> though i'm not sure anyone really gets any result from seeing someone locked up so many years down the line
<diddledan> the only benefit I see from doing so is if there's a chance they'll reoffend
<daftykins> yeah
<daftykins> seems a bit late given most have had so many years to do whatever
<shauno> anyone know if it'd cause any problems to wire the usb power rails together on a Pi?  (ie, from the two usbhost ports to the power microusb)
<ali12341> shauno: check the schematic - the usb rails are all connected together anyway iirc, except that there's the polyfuse on one of them
<ali12341> so basically all you'd be doing is removing the polyfuse from the circuit
<shauno> fair enough.  I jsut recall getting odd looks when I had the previous revision backfed  (powering the usbhost sockets powered the board; I'm not sure if this is still the case)
<ali12341> i'm pretty sure that hasn't changed, but removing the polyfuse is risky of course
<daftykins> shauno: maybe you had the big monkey with you at the time? :>
<daftykins> "here's my incredibly small r-pi and here's my incredibly large monkey!"
<shauno> :(  don't judge me, I like my monkey
<shauno> I think that one was a happy accident; I used one of the Y cables from a harddrive to power a 3g modem, and discovered that unplugging the pi didn't reboot it
<daftykins> oh no i'm supporting you and your monkey, sir
<mapps> yo
 * mapps is excited about ibiza
<MartijnVdS> mapps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXXRHpVed3M ?
<mapps> need
<mapps> for smoke
<mapps> :D
<knightwise> morning everyone
<MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
<knightwise> jeu MartijnVdS !Ã¨
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: that's not a word ;)
<MartijnVdS> "!Ã¨"?
 * popey waves from that london
<AlanBell> o/ popey
<AlanBell> that is bright and early to be in the city
<popey> indeed
<knightwise> it is now :)
<knightwise> hey popey AlanBell
<SuperMatt> morning all
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Data Privacy Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> \o/
<SuperMatt> what a nice day
<diplo> Morning all
 * popey can hear davmor2 
<mapps> hey
<mapps> hi popey
<mapps> popey, youre in farnbirough?
<mapps> im quite close to where you are i think :)
<mapps> Bisley
<jussi> hrm, anyone know any standalone *desktop* (not a php/cloud solution) lead management tools? (like pipedrive.com, but standalone, desktop client)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: desktop CRM? Why?!
<davmor2> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> jussi:  "installed on own server" close enough? AlanBell in that case :)
<jussi> MartijnVdS: I need something personally. not for sharing with anyone else, that runs stand alone here on My PC.
<davmor2> hey popey  fancy meeting you here :)
<MartijnVdS> jussi: Yeah, so you run it on your own PC, listening only on 127.0.0.1
<jussi> MartijnVdS: openerp doesnt seem to cut it at the moment - it doesnt have a proper sales process for anything apart from tangible goods.
<mapps> morning
<jussi> oh wait, I can install more modules, lemme play more...
<mapps> gooing on Ibiza MartijnVdS  :D
<popey> mapps: no, I'm in London â»
<jussi> MartijnVdS: hrm, actually that might be an interesting Idea, install openerp locally...
<mapps> ah
<mapps> i tought you were near me popey
<mapps> im from Biskey
<popey> i am
<popey> I live in farnborough
<popey> â»
<mapps> yea
<popey> i know bisley a bit
<mapps> you know bisley then
<mapps> yea
<mapps> and pirbright
<ali12341> ha biskey?
<mapps> Bisley;p
<mapps> surrey's nice popey
<mapps> i domt live there anmore anyway
<popey> friend of mine lived in arethusa way
<popey> actually, first date with wifey, we went to the pub at the end of bisley, near brookwood
<mapps> popey,  thats real cose tpo where i am
<mapps> heh
<mapps> bis;leys nice like no?
<mapps> i wish i still lived there:D
<mapps> its where my dad lives
<popey> yeah, nice area
<Laney> bisley pellets
<Laney> forever burned into my eyes
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<Laney> (not literally)
<Laney> (that would be painful)
<bigcalm> Would it? Are there nerve endings in the eyeball?
<bigcalm> The front bit that is
<Laney> ever poked yourself in the eye?
<bigcalm> Yes, but that's pushing the whole ball back into the socket. I'm wondering if you'd feel anything if the lens was damaged
<foobarry> clear
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: have you ever had a branch (of a tree) hit you in the eye?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: that's painful and teary for a week at least
<foobarry> you guys are grim
<jussi> Im pretty sure there are - how else do you feel a peice of dust in your eye?
 * bigcalm keeps quiet
<popey> davmor2: options iwlwifi 11n_disable=1
<foobarry> my problems with intel 6230 wifi were made better by disabling powersaving
<davmor2> popey: ta I'll try it and and report back :D
<bigcalm> davmor2: you're up early
<davmor2> bigcalm: in London I've been up since 0400
<bigcalm> davmor2: ah, it's a Calonical day
<foobarry> colonical?
<bigcalm> It's a running joke from our LUG
<MartijnVdS> Colonical?
<foobarry> note to self. its not cex.com, its cex.co.uk for the electronic exchange store
<davmor2> bigcalm: remind me to hurt you when I see you next :D
<bigcalm> \o/
<DJones> Are there any offline roadmap/navigation apps people would recommend for android, starting to try a couple out, wondered if there are any really good ones to try
<ali12341> the tomtom one?
<DJones> The two that seem to get really good comments are Sygic and MapFactor
<DJones> Tomtom one seems to have pretty poor reviews
<Myrtti> DJones: google maps 'offline' maps aren't available?
<DJones> Myrtti: No as far as I know, that facility was removed a while back
<Myrtti> well android still kinda has it, but it's not available everywhere
<dwatkins> DJones: this appears to be a list: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Android
<dwatkins> many of the apps mention offline
<DJones> You can get a small area if you download it beforehand, but doesn't have full details from what I've read
<DJones> Just downloading Mapfactor to compare to Sygic
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning SuperMatt
<diddledan> foobarry: the .com is blocked by opendns' malware detector
<bigcalm> Is there an easy way to awk/sed/grep (I don't know what) the current tag for a git repo?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: my propmt does it, so probably :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: mine too, good point
<bigcalm> export PS1='\[\033[01;32m\]\h\[\033[01;34m\] \w\[\033[31m\]$(__git_ps1 "(%s)") \[\033[01;34m\]$\[\033[00m\] '
 * bigcalm scratches his head
<MartijnVdS> __git_ps1 is defined in /usr/lib/git-core/git-sh-prompt
<bigcalm> Oh
<MartijnVdS> maybe "git describe" is what you want?
<bigcalm> This is for an automated deploy script. Need to create remote directories based upon the tag
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: have a look at "git describe"
<MartijnVdS> it does tag + sha
<bigcalm> $ git describe
<bigcalm> fatal: No names found, cannot describe anything.
<bigcalm> I'm guessing I need to tag before it'll work?
<MartijnVdS> probably
<MartijnVdS> maybe add some options.. --help ;)
<bigcalm> No, I expect other people to do my work for me! :P
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: well, look at stackexchange then ;)
<bigcalm> Hehe, some people are rather lazy on there
<bigcalm> I hope I'm not being hypocritical now
<ali12341> bigcalm: what do you actually want to do?
<bigcalm> <bigcalm> This is for an automated deploy script. Need to create remote directories based upon the tag
<ali12341> ok. yeah, git describe is almost certainly what you want
<bigcalm> Grand :)
<ali12341> by default it does <repo name>-<tag>-<number of commits since tag>-<commit sha>
<ali12341> so it's always unique to where you are in history
<bigcalm> Aha
<ali12341> see also git archive
<bigcalm> aquarius: found the holy grail of printers yet?
<aquarius> no.
<aquarius> It's not even *for* me
<aquarius> my dad has two printers, a cheap laser and an inkjet, and is sick to the back teeth of both of them not working
<aquarius> hence him asking me for advice, and me asking you lot :)
<bigcalm> I'm happy with the Lexmark laser printer I have. I understand that other people have problems with devices though...
<ali12341> we've got a HP M175NW
<ali12341> it works fine. cheap printer but the toner is expensive, but that's not a problem if you don't print very much
<ali12341> the demo cartridges have lasted a year already
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: I have an HP CP1515n, had it for several years, haven't replaced the demo carts yet
<MartijnVdS> Also, it works very well (no malfunctions yet)
<aquarius> so, "works fine" and "no malfunctions" means that you never get the thing where you send a page to print and nothing happens, or the computer can't see the printer, or the printer won't print and needs to be power-cycled, or...?
<ali12341> they are both network printers
<aquarius> you just go "file > print" in some app and it prints, every time?
<ali12341> sure
<aquarius> blimey.
<ali12341> (on linux)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: the only times it didn't print, was when I broke cups
<ali12341> windows printing is totally random, doesn't matter what printer you have
<aquarius> ooh, man, that HP M175NW is two hundred quid.
<aquarius> that's cheap?
<ali12341> it was Â£99 on argos last year
<ali12341> also it's a scanner and copier
<MartijnVdS> isn't that the one popey has as well?
<bashrc> avoid printers unless there really isn't any alternative
<ali12341> don't think so
<aquarius> bashrc, there isn't. I made that argument and was rebuffed.
<bashrc> in my experience, printers are always trouble - even if you buy the most fancy expensive machinery
<aquarius> bashrc, I agree wholeheartedly with that assessment. However, no choice here, hence looking for recommendations for the least worst.
<ali12341> i generally find network printers work best, as they're not relyng so much on the OS
<aquarius> network is a good idea. My laser is networked.
<aquarius> I assume network printers have wifi these days?
<ali12341> the 175 does
<ali12341> and ipv6 too
<bashrc> yes, a network printer might reduce any compatibility problems
<ali12341> and it comes configured to serve up a public access point into your network
<ali12341> which is not so good
<popey> that is the printer I have
<popey> this one has wired and wifi
<ali12341> yeah. i'm using it wired
<ali12341> didn't notice it was also letting the general public onto our network
<popey> mostly wifey uses it. I don't use it much
<popey> on nice
<aquarius> I mostly don't care about the public access point thing. :)
<directhex> oh, it's aquarius
<aquarius> and I can probably turn that off, anyway
<aquarius> heya directhex
<ali12341> you can, i have :)
<aquarius> popey, you've got the M175NW?
 * aquarius looks at wifi HP laser printers.
<ali12341> you can make it just join your existing network too of course
<aquarius> ali12341, which is exactly what I shall do
<aquarius> I suspect I'll need to connect it with usb first to get at a config util to set the wpa key, or something.
<ali12341> nope
<ali12341> i've never plugged it in on USB
<aquarius> ali12341, how did you teach it the wpa key?
<ali12341> i didn't - i use it wired
<ali12341> but you can configure it over the network, so either get a ethernet cable or join it's default public wifi
<popey> aquarius: ya
<aquarius> oh, sneaky
<ali12341> USB requires installing the silly drivers
<MartijnVdS> 200GB drivers, probably, on Windows?
<aquarius> yeah, I'll just make it be wired for five minutes.
<ali12341> MartijnVdS: yeah, exactly
<aquarius> hplip supports it, so dad'll be fine
<ali12341> i thinky ou still need the drivers to print from windows
<popey> its not a fast printer
<popey> i haven't printed to it from linux yet
<ali12341> it works perfectly with ubuntu
<bigcalm> Does it offer airprint? - found this to be a requirement by my mother for their new printers
<popey> nice
<ali12341> it's not fast but that's not a problem unless you are self publishing your novel or something
<popey> well, wifey wants to print lots of school work
<popey> but yeah, mostly thats fire and forget
<ali12341> it's also not eaxctly slow compared with say, any inkjet
<MartijnVdS> also, you can touch the paper later on without it streaking
<Dave2> I wonder if you can sensibly get a dot matrix printer shared via CUPS.
<aquarius> don't care about print speed, as long as it's not taking half an hour per page or something :)
<ali12341> it's mostly warm up/warm down
<ali12341> printing 10 pages only takes slightly longer than printing 1 page
<aquarius> bigcalm, don't need airprint -- parents are both Android phones, and I honestly can't imagine for the life of me them ever printing anything from phone anyway ;)
<aquarius> ali12341, yeah, that's how most stuff works in my experience
<popey> i dont find that's the case with what I print
<popey> takes an age to print complex pdf things
<popey> if i print a 10 page doc, it takes as long for each page, sometimes a minute
<Dave2> ...huh. Apparently you _can_ print to a dot matrix printer using CUPS, which means you could share one over the network. Learn something new every dya.
<MartijnVdS> Dave2: Why not?
<diplo> Dave2: We have probably 800+ dot matrixs with CUPS :/
<diplo> Over over customer base
<Dave2> I didn't expect CUPS and dot matrix support being relevant to have a huge overlap.
<Dave2> diplo: nice.
<Dave2> People still make printer paper?
<aquarius> diplo, eight hundred printers. That's terrifying.
<diplo> Moved mainly to printer servers now, and slowly getting them to spend money on laser printers
<aquarius> I was going to ask where you got fanfold paper from these days too!
<diplo> Paper is the easy part, the printers are extortionate and hard to get
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: ebay ;)
<ali12341> TIL that rivers don't meander because the water on the outside of the bend travels faster than the water on the inside
<ali12341> it's actually because the outside bank does all the work of redirecting the centripetal force
<MartijnVdS> ali12341: that's the effect, not the cause.
<Myrtti> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jan/27/hello-ruby-kids-coding-book-kickstarter
<Myrtti> \o/
<diplo> aquarius: we are a software/hardware company, we support the printers for 95% of our customers and they're skin flints when it comes to renewing hardward
<diplo> Still have 1 customer running Redhat 7
<diplo> !!
<ali12341> MartijnVdS: it's not even true because of vortex flow, apparently
<brobostigon> is it possible, to boot usb deviced using grub2, without bios usb boot support. ?
<brobostigon> devices*
<ali12341> i was lied to in school, yet again
<aquarius> diplo, well... dot matrix printers were, in my experience, considerably more reliable than newer inkjet/laser printers in terms of actually printing rather than pretending to print, not lying about how much ink they have left, etc.
<aquarius> of course, they jammed and ate paper like it was going out of fashion, but you've gotta take the rough with the smooth.
<diplo> I don't know, I'd take networked printers 100% over dot matrix now days from my experience
<ali12341> aquarius: that's because dot matrix printers accept one character at a time and print it immediately
<bashrc> yes, I bet there are still companies out there using dot matrix printers and fanfold paper
<aquarius> ali12341, yeah.
<diplo> Much easier to maintain/fix/swap out
<aquarius> I agree that it's easier to make it work when it's simpler. :)
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: http://r.ebay.com/PBCQXX
<aquarius> clearly the answer is.... a networked dot matrix printer!
<aquarius> kickstarter!
<MartijnVdS> aquarius: Raspberry Pi + serial dot matrix printer + some glue
<ali12341> i've got a MPS-802 in the loft
<aquarius> actually I'm sure I've got a parallel jetdirect around here somewhere.
<ali12341> so old it's not even serial
<diplo> jetdirect \o/ we have lots of those as well
<bigcalm> Going back to git tags, looks like phing can do a lot for me anyway :) http://www.phing.info/docs/guide/stable/apcs23.html
<diplo> Actually :( they're more of a PITA than dot matrix's
<diplo> bigcalm: Get back off topic!
<diplo> :P
<bigcalm> Ha :P
<bigcalm> Killed the convo. yay
<ali12341> a project builder written in PHP based on ant? are you completely insane??
<bigcalm> I love the hate PHP gets
<ali12341> i working on some php code right now
<ali12341> it's horrible
<ali12341> instead of functions, they wrote one function that takes a string param and has a huge switch inside it
<diddledan> ali12341: ouch
<bigcalm> I'm sure you could do that in pretty much any language
<Dave2> 11:20:22 <      aquarius> clearly the answer is.... a networked dot matrix printer!
<ali12341> then instead of using functions like doSomethingWithAUsefulName() they call hugeFunction("123")
<Dave2> hey, that was what started me off on this, wondering how easy it'd be to share via CUPS. And apparently you can.
<ali12341> and literally all the params are just numeric codes
<Dave2> (It'll even print non-character data. Very slowly.)
<popey> Laney: you run spotify on 14.04? crashy?
<Laney> yes, no
<ali12341> bigcalm: but only a php developer would actually do it in production code
<popey> hm
<popey> Laney: when running do you have 2xspotify and 5xspotifyhelper processes?
<popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/6831469/
<popey> thus
<Laney> laney@iota> pgrep -fc SpotifyHelper                                                                                                        ~
<Laney> 9
<popey> hm
<popey> trying to figure out which process to attach to in gdb
<bigcalm> popey: spotify works for me in 14.04
<ali12341> this huge function controls all the SQL queries in the entire website, so anywhere else in the code you don't see getArticles() or whatever. you see query("123")
<bigcalm> popey: not crashed any more than in 12.04 - 13.10 for me
<ali12341> to add insult to injury, every case works by getting the entire table and then selecting rows inside php code
<ali12341> and some page views call it multiple times
<ali12341> spotify is very crashy on 13.10 for me
<Laney> it used to be like that for me, but then it got fixed
<Laney> I'd see deadlock messages when running it from the terminal
<Laney> forget if that was 13.10 or trusty
<bigcalm> Some times spotify will take control of the whole system. I fix that by pressing alt and typing exit
<bigcalm> But this has happened for me since I 1st used Spotify in Unity
<ali12341> the new flash plugin has developed a nasty bug where it deadlocks the GPU. there's no recovering from that :/
<bashrc> flash is the spawn of the devil
<popey>   Installed: 1:0.9.4.183.g644e24e.428-1
<popey> and thats the version of spotify you guys are on?
<Laney> yup
 * bigcalm gets his laptop
 * popey deletes .config/spotify and starts fresh
<bigcalm> 0.9.4.183.g644e24e0
<bigcalm> That's from Spotify's only Help -> About Spotify...
<bigcalm> s/only/own
<bigcalm> As much as I love my new laptop, I keep forgetting how heavy it is
<bigcalm> Does anybody else get this: viewing a terminal with black background, lines of red and green text, brain wobbles as it keeps seeing the alternating colours in a 3d type way
<bigcalm> I suck at describing things
<popey> no
<ali12341> yes
<ali12341> there's a reason for that
<ali12341> it involves different wavelengths
<bigcalm> Viewing git diffs it happens all the time
<popey> oh i see
<ali12341> you could change the colours if it's really bad
<popey> i thought you meant you saw lineds
<popey> *lines
<bigcalm> I could, it amuses me. I will if it ever stops me from reading :)
<ali12341> red/blue to make the effect "worse"
<bigcalm> Nice
<ali12341> (because they are the most different wavelengths)
<bigcalm> Of course, opposite ends of the visible light spectrum
<ali12341> apparently it's because of chromatic abberation, ie you can't quite focus on them both at the same time because of the different wavelengths
<bigcalm> Green pops out while red sinks back
<ali12341> yeah. different focal length tricks your brain into thinking it is further away
<ali12341> presumably this would still happen even if you are colour blind
<bigcalm> Coo, that's unexpected
<foobarry> new dr who costume looks like barney stintsons magician dad
<SuperMatt> hahaha
<SuperMatt> I just don't think it's different enough from the last two, tbh
<SuperMatt> different colours, to be sure, but it's still quite a stuffy look
<SuperMatt> I liked 9's look
<foobarry> they are going for jon pertwee look
<popey> you know a whovian by the fact that they say "9" rather than the actor name
<diddledan> lol
<DJones> SuperMatt: 9... as in 7 of 9 ? Thats a different series :)
<diddledan> where does the doctor that almost destroyed galifrey fit in the timeline?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 8.5
<bigcalm> DJones: she was called 7 though
<SuperMatt> popey: All right, I mean Christopher Ecclestone
<SuperMatt> who I think is extremely underrated
<diddledan> SuperMatt: no e
<DJones> bigcalm: Good call, looking at too many numbers
<SuperMatt> ah, I have been told
<ali12341> i'm with you on that one. eccleston is by far the best actor to play doctor who in colour
<ali12341> also as a northerner he's the closest they've ever got to casting a minority actor
<MartijnVdS> ali12341: they have a Scot now
<ali12341> good point
<ali12341> i'm looking forward to the new series
<MartijnVdS> ali12341: only 7 more months
<shauno> 10 was a scot too?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yes, but he hid it
<bigcalm> Did he hide it when they went to Tourchwood in Scotland?
<shauno> (and 9 was a northerner  lol)
<shauno> my biggest problem with capaldi's apparent costume, is that it means that I now have to find & reattach the bottom button on my jacket, less people think I'm aping him intentionally
<SuperMatt> I've already noted that I have almost everything I need for a capaldi cosplay
<SuperMatt> just need the jacket really
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: just rob shauno
<shauno> :|  please don't.  it's cold
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: just robe shauno
<shauno> spotted in the news this morning that dutch courts have struck down the IP block of TPB.  rather impressive
<shauno> seems to boil down to "the blocks obviously don't work, so we shouldn't force companies to bark up the wrong tree".
<MartijnVdS> shauno: yes :) \o/
<MartijnVdS> yay completely unfiltered internet again
<brobostigon> anways, can grub2 boot off usb devices, without bios usb support?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: no, because the BIOS can't boot into grub2 if it can't read grub2 off the USB device in the first place
<shauno> what if grub is on something it can boot?  eg grub on the hdd where you'd expect it, but with an option to loop boot an iso off a thumbdrive?
<brobostigon> MartijnVdS: i see, ok. cant i just tell grub2 which is already on the hdd, and point it at the grub thats on the usb device?
<MartijnVdS> Probably not, as grub doesn't have USB drivers
<brobostigon> ok,
<brobostigon> ohwell,
<diddledan> has anyone played with openvz enough to find out what might cause a guest mysql server to be unable to access it's files? I've just had a website go down where mysql reported that the tables didn't exist yet all the files were visible on the filesystem
<diddledan> I'm wondering if doing a live migration to a different server might cause it?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: shared memory, I think
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: postgresql can't run in OVZ instances either
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: ouch
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I'm not telling the client they bought a duff vps :-p
<diddledan> (they organised it and told us to put their site on there without asking us whether it's a good idea or anything. just unilaterally decided to buy a server and impose it upon us)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: The Googles suggest it's an innodb+openvz thing
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<bigcalm> Can you check if two file names point to the same inode (hard links)?
<diddledan> bigcalm: ls -i
<shauno> I usually end up searching for them (assuming they're not in the same folder), find -samefile is your friend
<diddledan> shauno: nie
<diddledan> nice
<bigcalm> Ta
<shauno> (and -xdev to stop it bothering searching other filesystems, since that's not a possibility.  so find /path -xdev -samefile /as/this/file )
<bigcalm> That does look handy
<shauno> seems silly that that's not a default behaviour.  find will happily wander across mounts where the hardlink can't possibly be
 * popey just learned that we're going to backport 3.13 to precise.
<MartijnVdS> popey: as part of the LTS enablement stack?
<popey> ya
<MartijnVdS> sounds logical, 12.04 still has a few years of support left, even after 14.04 comes out
<MartijnVdS> I can imagine people want to run the same version everywhere
<MartijnVdS> and not a mix of 12.04 and 14.04
<popey> suspect 3.13 will be the last one
<MartijnVdS> Yeah, with newer LTS enablement (14.10 etc.) going into 14.04 only
<MartijnVdS> "time to wake up and smell the upgrade" ;)
<popey> â»
<MartijnVdS> also, 14.10 -- 10 years of Ubuntu
<knightwise> morning
<knightwise> 10 years ? has it been that long ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: 4.10 was the very first, warty warthog :)
 * knightwise thinks that is where he started too
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: it's the one with the naked people backgrounds
<knightwise> http://mobile.osnews.com/img/9097/ubuntu2.jpg
<knightwise> Yep ! :) that was the one :)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AnSn_cSIfE
<Myrtti> I dug up a 5.10 disk yesterday when I was doing my "emptying and clearing one mess at a time before moving" strategy
<MartijnVdS> Myrtti: I found a 6.06 disk this weekend. Didn't try it :(
<Myrtti> I ordered a massive box of 5.10's for a school project
<Dave2> 6.06 the number of the ...drake
<MartijnVdS> dapper!
<popey> ignore anything davmor2 says now.
<bigcalm> o.O
<davmor2> popey: is apparently fantastic
<bigcalm> A swapping of machines I guess
<davmor2> bigcalm: no he broke his beloved fs
<Myrtti> filesystem?
<Myrtti> OH NO
<Myrtti> has BTRFS FINALLY DISAPPOINTED POPEY?!?!?!
<Myrtti> STAY TUNED FOR BREAKING NEWS
<davmor2> no it's x
<Myrtti> :-P
<davmor2> we just blamed btrfs cause we knew it upset popey
<MartijnVdS> oh it's his memory leak? :)
<bigcalm> Anybody here using an office 365 account in thunderbird and find it takes a long time for the smtp connection to be made when sending email?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: I have used it in the past, and yes it takes forever
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: also imap disconnects randomly
<popey> pffft
<popey> for some strange reason compiz exploded then lightdm wouldn't start
<popey> all find now
<popey> -typos
<bigcalm> popey: somebody has moved your keys around
<popey> unfortunately davmor2 left his desk with his laptop locked, so i couldn't dick about with it
<davmor2> popey: yeah not that dumb :P
<bigcalm> Something he never did at our work place days. I think you guys have some trust issues to work out
<foobarry> why is it that some iphone users don't know how to upload a photo to facebook but they know how to upload a screenshot of a photo? is it that hard?
<knightwise> No , taking a screenshot is too easy
<foobarry> bigcalm: YES
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: sure but don't they end up in the same place as photos?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: with the same "Share" button?
<foobarry> sending a mail via smtp takes > 30 s
<foobarry> i asked for onsite smtp realy but they didn't understand the words
<bigcalm> foobarry: yes?
<bigcalm> Ah, okay
<foobarry> sucks harder than any mail system i ever saw
<foobarry> imap is super slow too
<bigcalm> At least it gave me the chance to cancel sending, alter the email and resend :)
<foobarry> yeah
<bigcalm> Not to be relied upon though
<foobarry> the response from work is "thunderbird is not supported"
<bigcalm> Right, lunch time!
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: "Use outlook!"
<foobarry> thats funny because it was supported before you introduced the problems
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: they did say that
<awilkins> Yick, yes
<foobarry> i'd rather go without email than use outlook
<awilkins> Alas, Outlook is the only sensible option for NHS mail
<awilkins> IMAP is only available if you're inside the NHS network
<awilkins> Because you dare not expose Exchange's IMAP implementation (or, actually, Exchange) to the naked internet
<foobarry> MS do
<awilkins> Sure it's not through an app proxy?
<awilkins> We have Exchange available over the internet but it's via this other thing that's an XMLRPC proxy
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: but they're the only ones who have people on their payroll who can look at the source and go "Ah, there's the problem" is something goes horribly wrong
<popey> foobarry: yeah, I've wondered why people do that too
<awilkins> They bought it from an Israeli security firm
<popey> i think it's because people see a picture on facebook and can't figure out how to save it
<popey> not that they can't figure out how to share
<foobarry> its a photo they took
<popey> sharing is easy, saving content from facebook is harder
<popey> oh, thats even more demented
<foobarry> but maybe they shared on another fb page first
<popey> yeah
<awilkins> Lots of pages intentionally take steps to stop you saving images now
<popey> I'm actually susprised they know how to screenshot
<popey> s/page/app/
<awilkins> (easy to default with "Inspect Element" but still... beyond the muggles)
<popey> on a phone
<popey> "Inspect element"?
<awilkins> Ok, not on a phone
<popey> you have press, and long press
<foobarry> regret eating that pasty now
<foobarry> how do i delete a twitter account?
<popey> hit the cog and choose settings iirc
<popey> https://twitter.com/settings/accounts/confirm_deactivation
<foobarry> ah
<popey> at the bottom
<foobarry> deactivate..in small letters
<foobarry> ta
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/Ubuntu_Borat
<foobarry> i notice chrome now has "do not track" option, so i don't need the do not track extension...or do I?
<popey> https://twitter.com/Ubuntu_Borat is @bkerensa I believe
<foobarry> pretty lame
<foobarry> thoguht it was funny till i read it.
<foobarry> i like devops borat thoguh
<foobarry> so are canonical going to complain about MS "onedrive" name?
<popey> why would we?
<foobarry> because it causes confusion
<foobarry> over a similarly named product
<popey> just got a text from my mother in law "I am just on my way over with some cat food. Are you dressed?"
<popey> i replied "I should hope so, I am in London."
<popey> I would imagine google would be more interested with it having "Drive" in the name
 * popey shrugs
<MartijnVdS> Microsoft cloud:\ ?
<dwatkins> Such a simple name, why didn't they think of it?
<MartijnVdS> cloud:\>_
<dwatkins> quick, copyright it...
<dwatkins> cloud:
<dwatkins> dir
<awilkins> cloud:\ looks kinda dubious about the value of itself
<awilkins> Sort of like Cloud --- hmmmm :\   -- not sure I want to trust my files to MS
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: so.. perfect really ;)
<awilkins> Poetically accurate branding
<dwatkins> Cloud:\> therefore suggests it's poking its tongue out up and to the side?
<bigcalm> I broke Jenkins :D
<bigcalm> Boss got emailed and I didn't
<bigcalm> Most amusing
<dwatkins> I signed-up for Bitcasa before their prices went up, it would have been nice to get infinite storage with a linux fs module as well, but I gather they're only providing that to their higher paying customers.
<foobarry> nimbus is a nice name for a cloud service
<foobarry> or fluffy
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: you've been reading too much Harry Potter
<foobarry> never!
<foobarry> i've never seen or watched it
<MartijnVdS> read then?
<foobarry> nope
<foobarry> they're kids books i think
<MartijnVdS> the first few are sort-of, but he grows up quickly
<Myrtti> eh. http://vimeo.com/84960395
<Myrtti> a bit... overboard.
<dwatkins> someone's been watching too much Game of Thrones, methinks.
<diddledan> Myrtti: I am at a loss for words
<Myrtti> so am I
<foobarry> another thing i haven't read/seen
<foobarry> lots of rumpy pumpy with dwarves from what i hear
<SuperMatt> o.O
<bigcalm> Sounds like fun
<SuperMatt> ah, when you said dwarves, I imagined the embeardened miners
<bigcalm> Is it not?
<foobarry> dunno. short people
<Dave2> short people :(
<SuperMatt> shhh
<SuperMatt> stop mocking short people!
<marxjohnson> there's a lot more rumpy-pumpy in the tv series than the books
<marxjohnson> same amount of dwarves though
<bigcalm> Dave2: at a Depeche Mode gig last night. Had this feeling that I'd seen the guy on the left somewhere before: http://nme.assets.ipccdn.co.uk/images/gallery/2012DepecheModePR200212.jpg
<popey> nah
<popey> too tall
<foobarry> i bought violator the other day
<foobarry> sounds a bit dated now
<foobarry> used to have it on tape as a kid
<bigcalm> The gig was great, what I saw of it any way
<popey> i used to work in Martins newsagents when 101 came out, used to play it when i was on the record counter
<SuperMatt> I would say violator has stood the test of time
<SuperMatt> compared to a lot of music of the time
<SuperMatt> I listen to it quite a lot
<bigcalm> Not so much fun when people who pay for a seated ticket spend the whole gig standing up
<foobarry> enjoy the silence is epic
<foobarry> so is the nada surf cover
<bigcalm> https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/427892672255512577/photo/1
<bigcalm> To this: https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/427910428086501377/photo/1
<MartijnVdS> darkest blackness of space?
<bigcalm> My view of the stage :(
<SuperMatt> ouch
<bigcalm> They sounded great though :D
<foobarry> feb 14th booked as holiday \o/
<foobarry> will take son out for the day as a valentine gift..giving her time to herself
<popey> taking me out somewhere nice?
<popey> oh
<popey> I am disappoint, son.
<foobarry> you can meet me there tohugh popey...
<foobarry> we're going to the RAF museum at hendon
<foobarry> epic day out
<bigcalm> Thanks for reminding me that I need to book a table for 14th Feb
<foobarry> i realise i should be spending time with the missis but at this stage of life, a rest is the best gift
<diddledan> what's the diff between dwarves and dwarfs?
<diddledan> I need a missus first
<foobarry> the massive building dwarfs the neighbourhood
<foobarry> snow white and the 7 dwarves
<foobarry> i may be wrong, i didn't google
<diddledan> the dwarf dwarves dwarfed the pygmy?
<foobarry> midgets have feelings too
 * diddledan eyes shauno 
<bigcalm> Heh
<foobarry> how should I disable network manager doing stuff on a centos server install?
<diddledan> foobarry: does chkconfig network-manager off not work?
<foobarry> it does, but no device appaers in system-config-network strangely
<diddledan> and then running service network-manager stop, of course
<foobarry> will go the /etc/sysconfig route, ta
<diddledan> doesn't system-config-network use the network-manager framework now?
<diddledan> welcome to #centos
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> !related
<diddledan> aww, that one doesn't exist
<diddledan> in #wordpress it says "just because you're using WordPress doesn't mean your question is related"
<diddledan> or similar
<diddledan> it's annoying the two bots are very similar but differ in ways that make me head-desk every time I try to use one of them
<diddledan> lubotu3: !command; doc-bot: .command; lubotu3: !command | redirection; doc-bot .command > redirection
<lubotu3> diddledan: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
<diddledan> shaddup lubotu3 , I wasn't talking to you
<foobarry> aww poor bot
<diddledan> it's a bot. until it develops emotions I'm not going to worry about humanity
<diddledan> although, if she's as sexy as six then I might have to speed up the emotion program design
<foobarry> USERCTL=no in ifcdfg-eth0 file?
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> I believe that's for use with ifup and ifdown
<diddledan> allows ordinary users the ability to bring the network up and down without root privs
<foobarry> ah, cheers
<foobarry> new settig for me
<diplo> Centos channel is awful, find the people in there quite confrontational, only ask if I'm really stuck :)
<foobarry> that imac on a train picture, was that actually running ubuntu?
<foobarry> looks like software centre
<shauno> I saw depeche mode last year .. being at the front wasn't actually a good thing.  that's when you realised you were watching a middle-aged man make love to a microphone stand.
<foobarry> in tight leathers?
<dwatkins> how would you get power for an iMac on a train?
<shauno> from the wall sockets?
<JGJones> Don't think the wall sockets give enough juice for that? Although an iMac doesn't use much power mind you, on par with a laptop (since most of internals of an iMac is mobile chips etc)
<shauno> ours have regular mains-level outlets
<shauno> wherever you see this sign :)  http://www.irishrail.ie/media/Symbols_wifi_sockets_150x100px1.png
<foobarry> but was it ubuntu?
<shauno> I didn't see the picture
<popey> many trains over here have power too
<foobarry> https://twitter.com/MacworldUK/status/426713513630138368/photo/1
<shauno> most diesel locos use the diesel to run a generator and then have electric powertrains, so they tend have more than enough juice to share
<foobarry> my commuter train has power sockets for cleaners
<bigcalm> I caved in and ordered the managed switch with wifi
<diddledan> I think that's been photoshopped
<Laney> can you tell by the pixels
<diddledan> definitely the pixels
<directhex> well, it takes experience to spot a shop
<directhex> have you seen many shops in your time?
<popey> http://fotoforensics.com/analysis.php?id=f4fa24807d1dab87af8f1f0c0d9ad524bd5bf51c.47309
<popey> says no
<mapps> argh
<daubers> Evening
<diddledan> ello
<MartijnVdS> \o
<brobostigon> evening
<foobarry> evenings
 * foobarry is reinstalling wifeysphone to see if that fixes the problem
<foobarry> otherwise...new  phone  :(
<Myrtti> I've dabbled with rewriterules
<Myrtti> result: http://myrtti.fi/tip-jar goes to my freenode tip jar.
<Myrtti> ;-)
<Myrtti> (and yes, if you click the link you know why I'm actually not ashamed at all to tell you this)
<Myrtti> but I'm also not going to spam it more
<diddledan> Myrtti: spam away - it's a good cause
<diddledan> plus who doesn't like spam with their egg n chips?!
<Myrtti> hm, new Humble Bundle
<Myrtti> quite surprised they donate to EFF and not, say, PEN International on that one
<MartijnVdS> ooh wow, first time I've seen that:
<MartijnVdS> [1405908.645054] microcode: CPU0 updated to revision 0x17, date = 2013-08-16
<MartijnVdS> (etc, for CPU0-7)
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> your system has been online for some time
<diddledan> 1405908 seconds is..... *calculator*17.2720833333... days
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: 16 days
<diddledan> sorry mistope
<diddledan> 16**
<Azelphur> Hey folks, anyone bored and mind telling me about the control characters in a terminal? I'm trying to capture the output from a process, and write what would be visible into a text file
<ali12341> i know a lot about that stuff
<ali12341> too much really
<Azelphur> oO
<Azelphur> ali12341: so for example, I'd want to have one "frame" of top always written into a text file, that's the goal
<Azelphur> I can capture the raw output, with all the control codes and such
<ali12341> well there's no such thing as "frames"
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: man script
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: interesting, that might do it, haha
<ali12341> why do you actually want this?
<ali12341> pu top on a webpage or something?
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: script -t timings outputfile
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: then replay using "scriptreplay timings outputfile"
<Azelphur> ali12341: spot on, I'm being stupid and feel like dumping the output of cgminer to a minecraft computer.
<Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, that doesn't sound like what I want
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: it's like recordmydesktop for terminals :)
<ali12341> right and you're using computercraft?
<Azelphur> ali12341: yup
<Azelphur> fun fun \o/
<ali12341> whch can only fetch web pages basically
<Azelphur> yup
<ali12341> what you really want is ssh implemented in lua
<ali12341> i put some thought into how to make cmputercraft more interesting
<Azelphur> haha
<ali12341> the most interesting way would be to connect it up to user mode linux instances instead of lua vm
<ali12341> and then put the redstone hardware into /dev/
<ali12341> anyway, back on to the question
<Azelphur> xD
<ali12341> you might be able to do this with screen
<Azelphur> I was wondering if I could do something like that with it
<ali12341> you can do it interactive with C-a h
<ali12341> "write a hardcopy of current screen contents"
<Azelphur> oh hey, that'll work
<shauno> if you name your screen sessions, you can do it non-interactive too
<Azelphur> you can stuff commands into screen
<Myrtti> ps has some sorting options
<Myrtti> and formats and columns
<ali12341> yeah but *really* he doesn't care about top at all, just wants to monitor some other program that happens to have a UI a bit like top
<Azelphur> ^
<Azelphur> ali12341: has it down ;)
<Myrtti> well, ok.
<Myrtti> *sniff*
<MartijnVdS> you could run it on a vt and dump /dev/vcs<num> ;)
<shauno> don't you get a whole lot of noise that way?
<MartijnVdS> every other character is a colour code(ish)
<shauno> :hardcopy filename is nice because it's basically printscreen; it kicks out clean ascii.  if you dump it straight from the term you get all the ansi stuff they use to move the cursor etc
<ali12341> screen -X hardcopy foo.txt
<ali12341> this works if you only have one screen with one window
<ali12341> it is a little bit strange with cgminer though, it only outputs the top part of the display
<Azelphur> ali12341: yea I already found it
<Azelphur> and it works for me
<foobarry> so the tube didn't stop at my station tonight, and hence took me into zone1, so my jounrye cost Â£5 extra :(
<Azelphur> ali12341: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-28_20.51.50.png that was fun \o/
<mapps> months till ibiza
<mapps> *5
<ali12341> C  [libc.so.6+0x7d71a]  _obstack_memory_used+0x49a <- does anyone know what it means when java does this?
<mapps> nope
<mapps> ;(
<shauno> Azelphur: witchcraft?
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> ali12341: hilarious idea, HTTP Post, screen -X stuff, screen -X hardcopy
<Azelphur> you now have computercraft SSH, in the ugliest most laggy way ever.
<shauno> I can't keep track of all the server forks anymore.  seems bukkit isn't "in" anymore?
<diddledan> wtf @ screenie
<diddledan> cwazay
<diddledan> he not nuts, he cwazay
<Azelcraft> Hi folks!
<Azelphur> diddledan: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-28_21.19.09.png xD
<MartijnVdS> à² _à² 
<Azelphur> this is the most hilariously pointless thing ever.
<diddledan> you've completely lost the plot?
<Azelphur> pretty much
<Myrtti> you are mad as a hatter
<Azelphur> I think I'm taking this too far, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2014/Jan/2014-01-28_21.24.29.png
<Azelphur> minecraftception :P
<Myrtti> you are mad.
<Azelphur> hehe
<MartijnVdS> Azelphur: have you read Snow Crash?
<MartijnVdS> you should. :)
<Azelphur> nope hehe
<neuro> there's only four things we do better than anyone else
<neuro> music
<neuro> movies
<neuro> microcode (software)
<neuro> high-speed pizza delivery
<MartijnVdS> neuro: that one, yes :)
<Azelphur> Myrtti / diddledan I implemented buffering and some other optimisations, upped the framerate
<Azelphur> I'm watching that telnet star wars now
<Azelphur> xD
<diddledan> aciimation ftw?
<diddledan> ascii**
<Azelphur> indeed :)
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-29
<mapps> what to watch
<mapps> hm
<diddledan> http://asmblah.github.io/uniter/demo/interactive.html
<diddledan> php. in javascript.
<diddledan> #thatisall
<mapps> what is it
<diddledan> it's a php interpreter running by virtue of javascript in the browser
<diddledan> the php code you see there is never sent to a server
<diddledan> it all executes in your browser
<shauno> I saw one where they'd built latex in js recently
<shauno> emscripten has a lot to answer for
<knightwise> morning everyon e
<Myrtti> mÃ¤eh
<knightwise> hey Myrtti how is the move going ?
<Myrtti> I've emptied a dresser.
<Myrtti> well, a chest of drawers.
<Myrtti> woo.
<Myrtti> in short: it's not really, but I pretend it is
<knightwise> its a step .. no :)  ?
<MartijnVdS> Morning!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<knightwise> hey diplo !
<diplo> Car broke down last night :( walked home and back in today! Hope I get a reply from my mechanic this morning :/
<knightwise> thats crappy dude
<brobostigon> :(
<MartijnVdS> diplo: do you know which part broke?
<diplo> Nope, had lots of work done on it over the last 2 weeks
<diplo> Got it back Saturday, been running fine, was fine to work. Started it up last night and it was basically chugging away like it was either missing or not enough fuel/air
<diplo> So luckily I hadn't got far so pushed it back to car park and walked home before I kicked the *ahem* out of it :)
<diplo> Much more relaxed today
<popey> ugh
<popey> buying something on ebay from someone who smokes
<diplo> :/
<diplo> Right, got to get my parents a PC.. got about Â£300-400 to spend. Before I go looking any recommendations
<diplo> ?
<diplo> I can build or buy whole
<brobostigon> anyone on three, whose data is entirly dead, and wont even connect up.?
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Freethinkers Day! :-D
<SuperMatt> oooh, my nexus 5 is a sexy thing
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: it is!
 * brobostigon is mega jealous
<SuperMatt> gosh darn it's fast and responsive
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> \o bigcalm
<awilkins> o/
<foobarry> what did you have before SuperMatt
<SuperMatt> s3
<MartijnVdS> Amazon?
<MartijnVdS> 8-)
<SuperMatt> no, samsung galaxy s3, you silly goose
<MartijnVdS> SuperMatt: That has a lot less storage though
<foobarry> are you selling the s3?
<foobarry> or the s3 died?
<SuperMatt> I haven't decided that stuff yet
<SuperMatt> I've got a couple of friends who might want to buy it off me, so I might sell it
<bigcalm> Oo, my contract is up in May. Haven't seen anything I like over my SGS3 though
<bigcalm> Early upgrade date: 08/05/2014
<bigcalm> Upgrade date: 08/05/2014
<bigcalm> Thanks t-mobile
<foobarry> need to buy my missis a recent but not brand new phone
<diplo> Not had a contract phone in 6+ years now
<MartijnVdS> Only had one the very first time
<MartijnVdS> then I saw the amount of crapware loaded onto it that I couldn't remove (old nokia..) I started buying my own phones
<awilkins> Google did us all a real favour with the Nexus line in that respect
<foobarry> nexus 4 aint available any more is it?
<awilkins> Not from Google Shoppe
<awilkins> Sure you can pick them up very reasonably from eBay / old retail stock
<MartijnVdS> Ye Olde Google Shoppe?
<awilkins> Aye, Ye Olde Famous Chocolate Factory Shoppe
<MartijnVdS> but why go for the N4? N5 is cheaper than most other phones with the same performance
<awilkins> If I didn't have an N4 that was still very acceptable, I'd probably get an N5
<awilkins> Much better cost model than Â£30-40 a month for a carrier locked phone
<awilkins> Â£280 + Â£10 a month for a package that has more than I can eat in it (including tethering)
<SuperMatt> my s3 is mostly acceptable, but I was getting more and more annoyed by the differences between stock andoid on my nexus 10 and the touchwiz stuff that samsung do
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ah, net-neutrality-by-law ;)
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: ("Oh you're tethering? We're not allowed to look/charge more.")
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, Nope, just have a carrier that lets you tether on their package with limited bits
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: Mine's on .nl rules :)
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, If you pay Â£12 a month you lose the tethering because you get unlimited bits
<awilkins> 1GB is enough for me, I think even with heavy use I only draw about 250MB a month
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: yeah, but I'm saying, Dutch providers can't do that because they can't look inside your packets to see if you're tethering or not :)
<awilkins> MartijnVdS, I've long been envious of the whole Dutch network thing - you all had superduper fast broadband way before us
<MartijnVdS> So I have 11GB + tethering for â¬30/month @ 25/25mbit 3G
<MartijnVdS> 4G
<awilkins> You could probably get away with tethering as long as you tunnel it all via SSH
<dwatkins> I have unlimited internets on my phone (but not on my fibre connection at home, where I'm limited to 200 GB/month)
<awilkins> Even on the non-tether packages
<awilkins> Because they can't tell you you can't do SSH on Android because you can
<dwatkins> I couldn't find a good ssh tunnelling tool for android when I looked a while ago
<awilkins> They likely only snoop web traffic and use your client identifier
<awilkins> dwatkins, Don't need an Android SSH tunneling tool
<dwatkins> it's built into the OS now?
<awilkins> dwatkins, Tether my laptop and run SSH on that
<dwatkins> ah, that kind of tunnelling
<awilkins> Then everything goes through the built in SSH SOCKS
<dwatkins> I was thinking of poor-man's VPN via ssh
<awilkins> Probably need to root Android to do that
<awilkins> But doable
<dwatkins> yeah, I only found one app which appeared to fit the bill, it was designed for users in China to tunnel out and redirect traffic to an external server
<MartijnVdS> you could just set up an ipsec vpn instead.
<MartijnVdS> that's built into android
<dwatkins> can I do that on top of my existing ssh config fairly easily, MartijnVdS?
<SuperMatt> gods, the screen on this thing is so nice
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: ipsec is completely separate
<dwatkins> groovy
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: something like https://help.ubuntu.com/community/L2TPServer
<dwatkins> excellent, cheers MartijnVdS
<dwatkins> something to keep me busy this evening
<MartijnVdS> that guide seems a bit rough
<dwatkins> no worries, it looks fairly straightfowards
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://rootmanager.com/ubuntu-ipsec-l2tp-windows-domain-auth/setting-up-openswan-xl2tpd-with-native-windows-clients-lucid.html
<dwatkins> I use port forwarding at home, so I might have to read up on which IP address the /etc/ipsec.secrets file actually needs
<awilkins> If Chromebook Pixel had a removable HDD instead of soldered-on flash, I'd be tempted just for the screen.
<dwatkins> yeah, that page looks designed for a machine with two network interfaces
<awilkins> What do we think about these reports of using a 4K TV as a monitor?
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: bad for your eyes
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: TVs are way too bright. Also, 30Hz, really?
<awilkins> Well, yes, there is that
<dwatkins> this is more like what I'm trying to do: http://www.mad-hacking.net/documentation/linux/networking/ipsec/nat-vpn.xml
<awilkins> I'm still annoyed by the "HD Revolution" though
<awilkins> I had 1200 vertical pixels in 2001
<dwatkins> I can't see more than 1200 vertical pixels from the distance my sofa is from the TV
<awilkins> Yeah, but my computer is much closer
<dwatkins> yeah, I have a monitor that's 2560x1440
<awilkins> Schweet, what did that cost? CRT or flat?
<dwatkins> it was on offer from Amazon the christmas before last, got 40% off
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: I have one of those 2560x1080 (21:9) screens. It's awesome :)
<dwatkins> this is the one I got: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2713hm.htm
<shauno> now that's the right way to wake up; a customer who sends screenshots, logs, and packet captures, instead of just a vague whiney email.  I could honestly hug them
<MartijnVdS> \o/
<awilkins> Can I swap them for one of mine?
<MartijnVdS> or mine?
<shauno> I think I'm keeping this one :)
<awilkins> I send kernel patches - you want to swap him for me?
<shauno> problem seems to be our end, but pcap goes a whole long way to helping me prove it to the right people
<foobarry> where would cpusecond limit in ulimit be set?
<foobarry> thought it was bashrc
<dwatkins> can be set system-wide, I imagine
<foobarry> where though?
<daftykins> shauno: :D good customer
<daftykins> here in Guernsey D-Day has arrived - my boiler is being replaced!
<daftykins> by none other than... my brothers childhood friend
<daftykins> seriously this place is too small... :D
<dwatkins> sounds like the village I grew up in.
<daftykins> heh
<foobarry> if i already did a git clone into a dir, to refresh the contents from head do i do git pull?
<foobarry> while inside the dir?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: that would work
<foobarry> is that the proper approach?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: unless you had made changes that conflict with the remote branch you're tracking
<foobarry> no i already submitted those
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: then pull would be the right approach
<foobarry> ta
<foobarry> there's no doc on this yet because it's interim
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: there is :)
<foobarry> which means high chance of cockup
<foobarry> i mean internal docs
<MartijnVdS> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/315911/git-for-beginners-the-definitive-practical-guide
<foobarry> does git commit -a offer a y/n confirm option?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: it opens an editor. I recommend always doing "git add" on the changed files and using just "commit -v"
<MartijnVdS> you could "commit -av", or even --interactive (to select parts of patches)
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: but I use "git gui" when I can, it's very good at hiding complexity :)
<MartijnVdS> ("Do I need to use 'origin/master' or 'origin master' with this command?")
<foobarry> thanks..lots of info there
<directhex> o hai, a controller!
<MartijnVdS> directhex: you can has steam controller?
<popey> thats rather nice of them
<directhex> yes!
<SuperMatt> I would love a steam controller
<SuperMatt> how did you get hold of that?
<directhex> being amazing has its perks
<TheOpenSourcerer> Love this story just for the stupid numbers involved: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/microsoft-reveals-its-server-designs-and-releases-open-source-code/
<TheOpenSourcerer> "... reducing network cabling by 1,100 miles and metal by 10,000 tons across our base of 1 million servers"
<bigcalm> Have a look at directhex's user level in steam and ye olde steamose. It might suggest how perks happen :)
<daftykins> anyone had any experience with mid-2010 iMacs and their cooling setups?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: are those the desk lamp imacs?
<bigcalm> I see lamp, I read linux apache mysql php
<daftykins> nah a bit newer
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/q05xx6jpnkq07hp/IMG_20140121_151058.jpg
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: http://img.bhs4.com/dd/f/ddf2b3db6166b8678a0c5a84db8db10ded75feb9_large.jpg
<daftykins> i'm not liking this ones temps
<bigcalm> The office had one of those for a bit. No idea what happened to it
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8nnjsuc645uz7id/IMG_20130314_171000.jpg
<daftykins> trouble is that's what they look like inside
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: bit like a laptop
<daftykins> wow my screens really are dusty at this time of day
<dwatkins> Apart from the difficulty in replacing the hard drive, why is the layout a problem?
<daftykins> oh i changed the HDD for an SSD ages ago, that's why i have that pic
<dwatkins> I gather you have to use suction cups to remove the display
<daftykins> i'm wondering how to attack it to check if the cooling is being hampered in anyway
<daftykins> yeah i bought one especially :D
<daftykins> Â£1.50 ebay job \o/
<daftykins> only need one, too
<daftykins> taking the LCD out is a few screws either side, then a couple of cables
<daftykins> though the screws come out right beside powerful magnets that keep the glass in place
<daftykins> so that can get very frustrating very quickly
<dwatkins> suction cups always remind me of this insane person... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXGFbDGrdCg
<daftykins> what a nutcase
<dwatkins> yep
<bigcalm> I shouldn't really be watching that while in a conference call
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> he died O_O
<dwatkins> oh my, yeah
<Myrtti> SUCTION CUPS SUCTION CUPS
<dwatkins> the video I saw before was made by him
<Myrtti> don't put one on your forehead!
<Myrtti> someone told me that would be stupid
<dwatkins> There's a masseuse in Malta who is famous for using suction cups to relieve back pain.
<daftykins> but i need more grip Myrtti :(
<Myrtti> dwatkins: in Finland suction cups used to be a very traditional folk healing method
<Myrtti> they are still somewhat, but nowadays it doesn't involve lancing the skin before putting the cups in
<dwatkins> I thought it was dark magick
<foobarry> the train riding suction cup guy died?
<foobarry> from a suction cup related incident?
<daftykins> well it seemed to say he died of Leukemia early in the vid, but my German isn't too hot so it might be they spoke of him pretending he was dead to stop people chasing him
<daftykins> he looks pretty ghostly in this vid
<popey> daftykins: is the cooling a problem or is it not just that the ssd doesn't have a thermocouple?
<daftykins> popey: well since doing the move up to Mavericks she's had it lock up twice, so i'm sort of exploring avenues
<daftykins> i use a program called SSD Fan Control to override the SMC and run the fans at a decent speed in place of the automated HDD sensor stuff
<popey> tis a common problem that people replace the hdd and then find there's no temp sensor
<popey> right
<daftykins> without that it just ramps up into hoover mode
<daftykins> but nah it was running with the SSD with Snow Leopard still for ages, fine
<daftykins> maybe it was just bad luck
<daftykins> but yeah it kinda looks like the heatsink lower left 0o
<daftykins> the fan lower right is solely for cooling the optical drive
<bigcalm> With .ssh/config I can ssh to a server and it'll use a specific key. Can I do it so that it only uses the key for a specific user on the remote server?
<MartijnVdS> bigcalm: you can set "User xxx" in a Host block
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: ta :)
<bigcalm> MartijnVdS: it also turns out that without that bit, ssh will try the key before falling back to password prompt
<popey> 1GH/s really isn't much these days is it?
<daftykins> gigahashes? never do any of that personally
<ujjain> How come a site says Â¨W5 2AZÂ¨ is an invalid postal code? it seems valid enough to me.
<ujjain> I am going to move to the UK, so I donÂ´t know much about UK postal codes.
<daftykins> the first segment needs 3 characters
<Laney> maybe it doesn't exist
<Laney> not true
<bigcalm> Humm, VPNs are weird
<daftykins> no?
<daftykins> shows how much i know England too ;D
<daftykins> all Guernsey ones are xxx xxx
<popey> its london
<Laney> S1 1AA
<popey> n1 is valid
<bigcalm> On my desktop I can open a vpn to a client. The tunnel appears in ifconfig and there are new entries in `route`.
<popey> there's a massive wikipedia page with a regexp for validating them
<Laney> I'm guessing they are using the PAF and that postcode is not real
<bigcalm> On my dev server I can open a vpn to a client. The tunnel appears in ifconfig but there are no new entries in `route`.
<popey> thats ealing, so is valid
<bigcalm> Using openconnect
<daftykins> bigcalm: are you wanting to know how to fix that or how to add routes? :>
<bigcalm> daftykins: I'd love to know how to fix it. It works on desktop but not on server but I don't understand why
<daftykins> that part's beyond me sadly :<
<ujjain> daftykins, popey, W3 is not accepted though, maybe 0W3?
<bigcalm> Oh well :)
<popey> w3 is valid
<daftykins> ujjain: W3 didn't occur in your first example
<popey> no, dont fudge about with it to try to make it valid â»
<popey> n/s/e/w followed by a single digit number
<popey> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_postal_district
<ujjain> I am sorry, I meant W5.
<popey> specifically https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_postal_district#List_of_London_postal_districts
<popey> W5 is ealing
<popey> see that page
<ujjain> right, I guess some sites donÂ´t have valid postcode validation for the UK
<popey> possibly.
<ujjain> Yeah, I am planning to move to Ealing.
<popey> colour me unsurprised â»
<ujjain> why is that?
<ujjain> ah lol, I guess that makes sense looking back at the entire convo
<bigcalm> daftykins: just tested it on my 14.04 laptop and it works there as well :)
<daftykins> :o
<daftykins> perhaps the server is calling route wrong?
<bigcalm> daftykins: desktop is 13.10, server is 12.04. I wonder if it's an older version issue
<daftykins> hehe, i've ruined a friend - he used to only collect music in mp3 v0 but now he's gone FLAC he can't go back
<daftykins> :D
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: once you go flac, you don't go back? ;)
<daftykins> i prefer to collect FLAC yep
 * MartijnVdS has lots and lots of FLAC
<davmor2> popey: don't go here www.buildwithchrome.com
<popey> why?
<davmor2> popey: you will loose all productivity
<popey> ah
<popey> yay, browser specific stuff
<shauno> I've got a weird stockpile of FLACs because I have a friend who digitizes antique records, and he uses my server for distribution
<daftykins> shauno: nice :)
<daftykins> does he do them to 24-bit?
<shauno> seems so; Willcocks 1.flac: FLAC audio bitstream data, 24 bit, stereo, 96 kHz, 134315825 samples
<shauno> I apparently now have 39 different recordings of Handel's Messiah
<davmor2> popey: unlimited lego bricks just imagine what you could build :D  Ladder to the moon
<daftykins> shauno: good to know :D
<daftykins> nah lego isn't apt for tall structures
<daftykins> it'll crush itself under its' own weight
<davmor2> daftykins: www.buildwithchrome.com
<daftykins> davmor2: i saw some guy had written 'Hi' but i don't really get it
<foobarry> why shouldn't you use fabric softener with jeans?
<popey> rots elastic
<popey> so if they're stretchy jeans it might degrade them
<foobarry> not stretchy
<Myrtti> use spirit vinegar instead with anything
<foobarry> my wife insists on chucking softener with everything
<foobarry> and my jeans fell apart
<MartijnVdS> Softener doesn't seem to have any effect for me.
<MartijnVdS> so I stopped using it
<diplo> Smells nicer :)
<diplo> I use softner with most things, never had an issue
<foobarry> makes the drawer mouldy of the washing machine
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: if your washing machine is mouldy, you should run its self-cleaning program
 * MartijnVdS chucks most things (not running shirts etc.) into the dryer after washing. It won't be wet for long enough to become mouldy
<foobarry> MartijnVdS: its the drawer...i just have to remove it and clean the gunk, but its skanky
<diplo> MartijnVdS: the drawer, mine does the same!
<foobarry> before entering the washer
<MartijnVdS> oh the soap drawer thing.
<MartijnVdS> I don't use that 8-)
<MartijnVdS> http://imgur.com/1BeBzvl
<MartijnVdS> ^ dissolving capsules
<diplo> I used to use those MartijnVdS, using Aldi's stuff now as it's a lot cheaper and cleans and smells just as well
<diplo> Apart from it's the tablet form rather than capsules
<MartijnVdS> I had to clean out the drain a few weeks ago, it was full of gunk
<MartijnVdS> now *that* is horrible.
<daftykins> i have an occasional nasty waft from my kitchen sink
<daftykins> i might have to take the U-bend off...
<foobarry> especially long hair
<daftykins> that will probably be nasty.
<daftykins> yeah my long hair down the shower plug, ugh
<foobarry> i got some one-shot stuff for the drain, unfortunately, my drain was shared among my road, and my initial drain bit was clear but the channel was backed up further down the road with chrismtas fat
<foobarry> unknowingly poured the one-shot down the drain and it couldn't go anywhere (my drain was clear) and the suplhur smell backed up
<foobarry> wife's friend was about to visit.
<foobarry> woops
<diplo> Keep meaning to try that stuff on my drains, takes forever to drain now.. never put fat etc down but something has slowed it down
<foobarry> as i found out, might be the drain channel
<daftykins> foobarry: >_<
<foobarry> lift up the drain cover in the garden
<daftykins> foobarry: who sorted it in the end?
<foobarry> thames water
<foobarry> for free
<daftykins> ah nice
<foobarry> because it was in their system rather than my drain
<daftykins> *nod*
<foobarry> bloke was really annoyed at me
<daftykins> annoying to be held up by neighbours daft actions
<daftykins> did he think the fat was you?
<foobarry> because he said he'd fixed it, but i insisted he turn around and come to my house because i had a blockage still
<diplo> I believe the laws have changed now, as of last few months, anything outside your house now has to be done by the water company
<diplo> Whereas it used to be your issue
<foobarry> turned out he'd fixed it 20 mins before down the road and what i was now looking at was just the equivalent of the u bend effect
<foobarry> he lifted my drain cover and showed that it was flowing fereely , and said he'd unclogged a load of solid fat from number 89 with a spade
<foobarry> i didn't know we shared the same drain channel, but i suppose thats how it works
<daftykins> i had tenants in my Portsmouth place that flushed sanitary products and blocked the soil pipe
<foobarry> ewww
<foobarry> what a grim job
<daftykins> they called someone out, who cut the soil pipe open to dislodge the blockings
<foobarry> run away!!!
<daftykins> but then they *taped* it shut
<foobarry> uh oh
<daftykins> so every time they had a shower or flushed, it started dripping into my basement
<daftykins> i was so annoyed =/
<daftykins> as they only contacted me once it reached the flooding basement stage
<diplo> We had a similar issue with toilet wipes rather than paper.. and our drainage in my area has tiny sewer pipes and basically any nick in the pipe caught the wet wipes.. took me forever to clean it through with pipes
<foobarry> tomcat7 on centos6..no repo? sucks man
<bashrc> compile from source?
<foobarry> not a very "enterprise" way of doing things
<foobarry> downloading from apache site seems fraught with lack of upates
<bashrc> if there are installation instructions you could turn it into a package to make it more enterprisy
<foobarry> interesting how warm a usb stick gets after copying data to it for 5 mins
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: some do that, yes
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: especially the smaller ones, I've noticed (less surface area to radiate from?)
<bashrc> atoms are moving
<MartijnVdS> bashrc: STOP THEM!
<shauno> send them to finland?
<MartijnVdS> shauno: siberia
<MartijnVdS> shauno: that should cool them down a bit
<shauno> I mean to send them to absolute zero, not put them to work ;)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: why not both :)
<shauno> because they only work when they're moving
<MartijnVdS> shauno: so you're saying they're lazy?
<shauno> my head hurts
<popey> interesting how warm a bitcoin mining usb stick gets!
<popey> i need to get a usb fan to cool it down
<foobarry> is there such a thing?
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: yes!
<popey> yeah
<popey> a few in fact
<MartijnVdS> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Desktop-Power-Laptop-Table-BuyinCoins/dp/B005GYU8H0
<popey> i have 3 hanging off my laptop
<shauno> hm, there's usb cupwarmers.  I wonder if there's a market for a cupwarmer that mines  (combine the function of one with the form of the other)
<popey> thats the one i was looking at
<foobarry> i meant usb mining stick
<MartijnVdS> popey: your USB lamp? :)
<popey> not sure these things are super worth using but cheap enough to play with
<popey> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyQewTBwAtM
<MartijnVdS> popey: how rich are you now then? :)
<MartijnVdS> (or: have you mined a block yet?)
<foobarry> how many arm cores on these?
<shauno> none?
<MartijnVdS> they're custom asics, not arms
<foobarry> whats an asic
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: custom chip, basically
<foobarry> weird
<popey> like what was in a spectrum
<popey> kinda
<popey> a bit
<daftykins> foobarry: yeah crazy things that can perform pretty much any function they're designed to, only super quickly at low clock cycles due to super efficiency
<Myrtti> my pork shoulder is talking to me from the oven
<popey> ooh, pork
<davmor2> Myrtti: as long as it isn't screaming I'm on fire!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you should be good
<Myrtti> no, just making little pops and whistles
 * hamitron feels the structure of his stomach give way
<Seeker`> Myrtti: where's mine?
<Seeker`> daftykins: mega expensive though
<Myrtti> Seeker`: where you left it
<daftykins> :D
<davmor2> Myrtti: wow a pig that whistles pop you must get it on Britains Got Talent
<daftykins> have they not already had that act? :)
<daftykins> the Rice Krispie Swine
<davmor2> daftykins: that would be snap, crackling, pig surely?
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> davmor2: my creativity never was too sharp
<Myrtti> gaaahhh... atleast an hour if not two more
<Myrtti> is it ok to eat peanut butter straight from the jar?
<daftykins> hell yes
<daftykins> preferably from a large spoon
<daftykins> i used to do that as a kid, though i was only allowed one under parental rule
<davmor2> Myrtti: man that is one big jar if you can get your head in it
<daftykins> XD
<popey> i cant recall the last time I ate peanut butter
<popey> we bought some but the kids aren't keen, not that we've pushed it on them
<davmor2> popey: I bet it was the last tim eyou did
<Myrtti> it's lovely in curry and on chicken :-P
<Myrtti> mmmmm satay chicken
<davmor2> Myrtti: and on toast
<Myrtti> yes, with jam
<popey> oooh, i do like satay yes
<foobarry> postgres argggh
<SuperMatt> nought wrong with postgres
<daftykins> woohoo gas chap finished for the first day
<daftykins> new boiler up on the wall, almost plumbed in
<daftykins> so one night of no hot water for me
<daftykins> not all that bad considering
<Myrtti> I think the skin and the fat is trying to make a violent exit from the oven...
<bigcalm> A developer has the following line in a script that doesn't work. I can see what they are trying to do (get the current unix timestamp), but date doesn't have -j option. Anybody know what they might have meant to do?
<foobarry> does postgres role have superuser privs?
<bigcalm>  date -j +"BUILD_TIMESTAMP = %s" >> .gateway/gateway_version.py
<bigcalm> This is a bash script
<bigcalm> Removing the -j works, but what were they trying to do?
<ali12341> use freebsd
<ali12341> http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=date&sektion=1
<bigcalm> Ah, I think that dev is using macos
<MartijnVdS> poor dev
<bigcalm> So it'll have the BSD version of date with the -j
<ali12341> yeah that sounds more plausible
<DJones> daftykins: Just one bloke doing the work? When I had mine done, it took about 3 hours for two people, admittedly installing into the same place as the old boiler
<daftykins> DJones: yeah one guy, he's ripped out the old including the flue and fitted the new to the wall from 9am -> 3:30
<bigcalm> Ta ali12341
<daftykins> DJones: most of it looks plumbed in now, so i doubt he has much left to do
<DJones> daftykins: Thats good, no heating/hot water in winter is not a great feeling
<DJones> AT least ours was done in the middle of summer
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: a week-long leak check ;)
<daftykins> DJones: :D he did amusingly say that nobody ever wants these jobs done in summer... :D
<daftykins> also it's only down to 7 deg C overnight at the moment so i don't even use heating
<DJones> daftykins: We had no choice, our old boiler went kaput, We struggled on for a month before the terminal nagging ear ache got to me
<MartijnVdS> terminal ear ache?
<MartijnVdS> what a horrible way to go
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> DJones: yeah mine was flatlining on the pressure overnight every night
<daftykins> had to go and fill up the water before using heating
<daftykins> in the outdoor outhouse...
<daftykins> that's also how i have to turn it on + off as i don't have a control box
<daftykins> but now - i'll have a wireless control thingy! \o/
<DJones> Heh, sounds sort of 1900's :)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: also an app to control from home?
<DJones> Wireless thingy is great
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: nah they don't seem to come with it with this Vaillant setup
<daftykins> whether i can hack anything onto the control module, i don't know
<daftykins> i did ask about home automation but in fairness i doubt i'd ever use it if i did have it
<DJones> daftykins: One thing to make sure of with the remote is that you don't have anybody next door/close nearby with a similar remote using the same frequency, otherwise your boiler comes on when there's is set to come on as well. Our neighbours had a new boiler a few months after us & their engineer was too lazy to check for conflicts, ended up having to reset the frequency on ours
<daftykins> hehehe
<daftykins> indeed, thanks, i shall run that by him
<daftykins> amusingly my parents have the same one. theirs has the wireless reset button and a label "do not press" beside it
<daftykins> i wonder if that's just to stop customers from doing it when they don't know how
<DJones> If its like ours, on its own it doesn't do anything, with ours you have to physically change dip switches on the receiver connected to the boiler, then on the remote, then press the reset button
<daftykins> ah-har
<daftykins> DIP switches remind me of the apricot computers we had... :D
<DJones> Apricot 386's ?
<DJones> Maybe 486
<daftykins> hmm struggling to remember, one was floppy only the other had 10MB removable cartridges of storage
<daftykins> played lemmings at least ;D
<davmor2> DJones: Apricot was arm surely
<daftykins> noooo
<DJones> I'm thinking of something like http://classictech.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/scan0002.jpg
<daftykins> yep
<daftykins> that's the very monitor even :D
<daftykins> my dad 'won' them from his work when they were sold off in a raffle
<daftykins> they would blind-bid for office equipment that was being shifted
<daftykins> his retirement plan is still to network them up again someday...
<DJones> This is pretty much what we used http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?st=1&c=995
<DJones> 386DX-25 :)
<daftykins> did anyone read about the drama going on at Bletchley park? it sounds quite sad =/
<davmor2> D'oh acorn no apricot fool  DJones 286 and 486
<DJones> daftykins: Yeah, seems to be going on for a while
<daftykins> heh we had acorns in my secondary school when i was there from '96 through to ~2001
<daftykins> i was there longer but they finally got PCs around then i think
<daftykins> the acorns were a bit of a laugh
<shauno> we had bbc micros when I left in '98 :|
<bigcalm> Is there a way to crawl a directory and list all files and sub-directories in one go?
<DJones> Kids......When I left secondary school, it'd just gotten 2 ZX81's
<shauno> tree?
<bigcalm> shauno: that's wonderful, ta
<bigcalm> Now, how about on a RedHat server that I can't install anything on? ;)
<bigcalm> Oh, blow me
<bigcalm> It's installed :)
<shauno> \o/
<shauno> you can kinda replace it with
<shauno> ls -R | grep ":$" | sed -e 's/:$//' -e 's/[^-][^\/]*\//--/g' -e 's/^/   /' -e 's/-/|/'
<shauno> but 'tree' is prettier.  with colours and stuff :)
<davmor2> bigcalm: ls -R ?
<davmor2> bigcalm: ls -R path/to/top/layer/
<bigcalm> Ta, tree worked :)
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> anyone familiar with ajax? i wanted to open an external URL but by default can only open stuff on same server..
<davmor2> mapps: by typing ajax open an external url I get this as the first hit http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4613310/how-to-call-external-url-in-jquery maybe it will help
<mapps> looks liki read up on access controls..but dont think i can do anything..will check that url thanks
<mapps> :)
<mapps> still not sure
<mapps> :D
<mapps> wonder if proxypass cvould help
<bigcalm> mapps: can you access the external URL from the web browser without issue?
<mapps> yea
<mapps> but its to do with the access controls with ajax
<mapps> and having to be same domain requests normally
<mapps> https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/HTTP/Access_control_CORS
<roht> adzi
<directhex> ikonia, got it working :)
<ali12341> lol
<ali12341> this buggy php code... so many bugs
<daftykins> the clue was in the name! :D
<bigcalm> My desktop machine (13.10) booted with no clock in the notification area today. I wonder why
<bigcalm> This sometimes happens on 14.04 as well
<davmor2> bigcalm: it hates you
<shauno> it couldn't figure out how to fit 'wednesday' so decided not to bother
<davmor2> bigcalm: I wonder if you have a third party app/indicator that is conflicting with it in a race condition
<bigcalm> davmor2: can't imagine that I would, but anything is possible
<davmor2> bigcalm: personally I blame php that's bound to be at fault :P
<bigcalm> Because PHP interacts with Unity...
<bigcalm> You can mock me, but it has to make sense :P
<bigcalm> Wish it were LUG night so I could prod you with my new laptop
<ali12341> bug 1228360
<lubotu3> bug 1228360 in indicator-datetime (Ubuntu) "No clock in menu bar and can't edit Clock settings" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1228360
<bigcalm> Well I never :)
<directhex> clock crashes often for me on 13.10
<bigcalm> `killall killall unity-panel-service` brought it back
<bigcalm> Oops
<bigcalm> Just the one killall :)
<ali12341> the buggy php code was caused because half the code defines week number as (days since new year)/7 and the other half defines it as date("W")
<ali12341> it just so happens that the code was written in a year where these are equal
<ali12341> however, judging from the rest of the code quality, i doubt that they would have spotted it regardless
<Myrtti> didn't someone from here link me to a surplus store or a candy store or something that sold foodstuffs that were going almost out of date or something?
<bigcalm> Myrtti: http://www.approvedfood.co.uk/ ?
<JGJones> What a great idea.
<ali12341> surf has a best before?
<Myrtti> bigcalm: thankies
<bigcalm> :)
 * knightwise is looking for sonic screwdriver soundeffects for his wife phone
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: http://soundfxnow.com/sound-fx/doctor-who-sonic-screwdriver/ (2nd hit on google..)
<MartijnVdS> http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/sounds/index.shtml has a few
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: why not http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/sounds/exterminate.mp3 ? :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: or http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/sounds/child1.mp3
<knightwise> haa :) but it has to be the RIGHT screwdriver for her :) the TENTH doctors screwdriver :)
<knightwise> She is a tennant girl :)
<knightwise> Found one on yourube meanwhile :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: just go for "Are you my mummy?" instead then
<knightwise> This is good too : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfiP915CfiM#t=70 :) Star wars impressions
<knightwise> haha :) are you my mummy wouldn't fly with @niejana
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: too scary?
<knightwise> no :) she's not the mommy type :)
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: "Exterminate" then?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: "You will be DELETED"
<knightwise> http://www.flickr.com/photos/knightwise/11888545116/in/photostream/  :)
<knightwise> she loves the daleks though
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: if you want to sleep on the couch, go for "Moisturize me!"
<knightwise> hahahaha :)
<knightwise> she says you guys should tread carefully :p
<Myrtti> talking of ApprovedFood, http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jan/29/prosecutors-drop-case-men-food-iceland-bins
<daftykins> he looks like a fine chap
<daftykins> let me dumpster-dive if he wants!
<daftykins> me? him!
<ikonia> directhex: bravo !
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-30
<knightwise> morning peeps
<mapps> morning
<knightwise> hey mapps
<knightwise> how are ya
<mapps> not bad mate just looking at booking my holiday:)
<MartijnVdS> mapps: let me guess.. Ibiza?
<MartijnVdS> (morning everyone!)
<knightwise> Ibiza :) Cool
<knightwise> Mornin MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> \o knightwise
<mapps> yep MartijnVdS
<mapps> :D
<mapps> i have been for Holland
<mapps> so surely Ibiza next
<mapps> :)
<MartijnVdS> I've been planning my trip to Jersey 8-)
<knightwise> Jersey Shore escapades ?
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: nah, old Jersey, not new :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MartijnVdS> \o brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MartijnVdS
<mapps> why MartijnVdS ?
<MartijnVdS> mapps: summer holiday + a concert ticket 8-)
<mapps> to se who|?
<MartijnVdS> mapps http://www.flickr.com/photos/treenaks/11477796716/
<knightwise> Those are some great pictures MartijnVdS
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: thanks :)
<diplo> Morning all
<MartijnVdS> knightwise: I have the one I linked to on my wall at home :)
<brobostigon> week three of workfare/mwa here i come,
<mapps> ;]
<mapps> too many cigarttes again
<mapps> :(
<mapps> throat hurts
<brobostigon> give up,
<knightwise> MartijnVdS: they are pretty ! they would look awesome on canvas indeed
<mapps> brobostigon, never!
<mapps> :)
 * mapps has smoked for 12 years...no chance of quitting:)
<brobostigon> i gave up last year, when i got together with my ex gf, as she had a young son, and didnt want to smoke around him.
<mapps> well
<mapps> i mean
<mapps> 18-29 ok 11 years
<mapps> but still...i dont wanna quit:D
<mapps> i just dpont wanna get ill
<mapps> :)
<MartijnVdS> mapps: then you DO want to quit 8-)
<MartijnVdS> mapps: it's cheaper too, allows to go to Ibiza more often
<brobostigon> and people are more likely to come near you, as you dont smell, and isnt as anti-social.
<mapps> hey MartijnVdS
<mapps> i dunno
<mapps> i was just thinking about stuff relating to that
<mapps> my mother was a big time smoke and she died at 42:((((((((((
<mapps> *smoker
<brobostigon> exactly.
<mapps> yea
<mapps> i wouldnt recommend smoking
<mapps> :D
<mapps> smoking aint cool
<dimpy> helo
<dimpy> hello
<dimpy> i have some problem regarding ubuntu 10.04
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: that's an old version! What's the problem?
<dimpy> i am not able to connect wifi with it
<MartijnVdS> does it see the network, and then not connect?
<dimpy> actually i have installed ubuntu 10.04 in vmware workstation
<bashrc> 10.04 was a good release
<dimpy> whenever i write ifconfig command.. always show that no interface found
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: if you're running it in vmware, shouldn't the vmware host do the wifi connection thing, and the guest just use "normal" (virtual) ethernet?
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: Also, 10.04 might not support latest VMWare wrt. drivers
<dimpy> its been 3 months long i am not able to connect if you could help me
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: can you put the output of "ip link show" on pastebin?
<dimpy> what is that? btw i am new to ubuntu
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Inane Answering Message Day! :-D
<DJones> JamesTait: Yeah, ok
<DJones> Is that inane enough?
<MartijnVdS> Inane in the Membrane
<dimpy> can anyone help me???
<MartijnVdS> !pastebin
<lubotu3> For posting multi-line texts into the channel, please use http://paste.ubuntu.com | To post !screenshots use http://imagebin.org/?page=add | !pastebinit to paste directly from command line | Make sure you give us the URL for your paste - see also the channel topic.
<dimpy> i have some problem with that.. paste is not waorking
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: can you post a screenshot somewhere then? If it's a vm, that should be possible
<DJones> This is an interesting solution, rather than continue to support old/unsupported version of IE7, a US website is offering to buy new computers for its users who continue to use it http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/30/new_computer_for_ie7/
<dimpy> how can i paste screenshot?
<DJones> !imagebin | dimpy
<lubotu3> dimpy: Screenshots can be made with the [PrtScr] button. Want to show us a screenshot of your problem? Upload an image to http://imagebin.org/?page=add and post a link to it.
<dimpy> ho gya
<dimpy> i mean done
<DJones> You just need to give us the link to the imagebin website now
<jussi> I think I have found my new drool item... http://shop.lenovo.com/fi/en/laptops/ideapad/yoga/yoga-11s/
<dimpy> here it goes.. http://imagebin.org/289889
<DJones> jussi: I was looking at one of those in PC World at the weekend, it looked nice, although the one they had on display looked a bit flimsy (may not have been the exact same model, or could have been overused)
<jussi> DJones: yeah - 11 inch is really important for me - 13 is too large. there arent many 11 inch ultrabooks worth mentioning out there - macbook air, vaio pro 11 and this so far are the only ones that are even remotely like what Im after
<jussi> (I currently use an old dell 12 inch thing)
<dimpy> somebody please help me
<MartijnVdS> jussi: there's the XPS12, which is 12" ;)
<jussi> DJones: there is a tegra3 version, but way too low power for me I think
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: "ip link show", not just "ip"
<jussi> MartijnVdS: yes, but that thing is yucky.
<dimpy> ip link show command is not working.. what the hell i gonna do?
<DJones> jussi: I had a Transformer Prime which was Tegra3, as a tablet it was good and fairly fast, although running android, even so it was considerably slower than my N7 now
<directhex> laptops are terrible /o\
<jussi> DJones: mind, the screen resolution is poor on that lenovo - I wonder if they have a better version
<jussi> DJones: Im not sure I can cope with yet another 1366x768..
<MartijnVdS> jussi: is it? I love mine :)
<DJones> jussi: Well, if you really want a small screen, I've got a couple of HP Journada's in a box in the loft, screen smaller than a mobile phone, and a speedy as a tortoise
<jussi> DJones: :D
<jussi> DJones: mind, I know someone who would probably love to buy one of those from you :D
<DJones> Heh
<dimpy> here it is..
<dimpy> http://imagebin.org/289892
<dimpy> problem with ubuntu?
<dimpy> anyone's there ?
<SuperMatt> that's quite a fun issue you have there
<directhex> ?
<SuperMatt> also: that's quite an old version of ubuntu you have there
<SuperMatt> I'm not sure it's even supported
<dimpy> what i am gonna do then?
<directhex> what's the problem?
<directhex> oh, right, 10.04
<directhex> how old's the laptop?
<directhex> wait wait hang on... vmware?
<directhex> vmware doesn't emulate wifi
<directhex> it emulates a wired network card which runs through your default host network adapter. if your wifi works on your host, it'll show up as wired in the vmware image
<dimpy> lol..the laptop is not old
<DJones> dimpy: Is there a specific reason you've not updated to at least 12.04, just for information, 10.04 stopped being supported and updated for desktops in May 2013
<dimpy> yep
<SuperMatt> wow, I guess that version is still supported in the server
<monotoko> I was running some 8.04 servers until last year
<directhex> dimpy, i'm failing to understand what your actual problem is
<DJones> SuperMatt: yep still got another 12 +bit months for that
<dimpy> actually i have just install ubuntu 10.04 in vmware workstation not in my lappy.. and i want wifi connection in my ubuntu which i find impossible
<SuperMatt> try a more modern release...
<directhex> dimpy, vmware doesn't do that.
<directhex> dimpy, when you configured your VM, you will have told it to use NAT since it's the default. vmware emulates a wired network card (a vmnet adapter). it doesn't matter whether your host PC is connected via wired, wireless, fibre, whatever - the VM only sees its own wired connection, which will work as long as your host OS has a network connection of some kind
<dimpy> yaar what i am gonna do then?
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: That depends, what do you want to do?
<MartijnVdS> !xy
<lubotu3> The XY problem is when you need to do X, and you think you can use Y to do X, so you ask about how to do Y, when what you really should do is state what your X problem is. There may be a Z solution that is even better than Y, but nobody can suggest it if X is never mentioned.
<dimpy> actually its my final year project..
<dimpy> vmware cant configured wireless?
<directhex> dimpy, no, it can't.
<dimpy> thanks for helping anyway
<directhex> dimpy, how is an emulated wireless card supposed to know which real physical wireless networks exist?
<dimpy> yea.. you're right
<dimpy> so you suggest as i have to do in vmware only
<SuperMatt> dimpy: what *is* your final year project
<dimpy> or else i have to do partitioning
<dimpy> simultation environment
<dimpy> using ns2
<directhex> natural selection 2 the game?
<MartijnVdS> nameserver 2?
<dimpy> no not natural selection its network simulator
<Laney> oof, snow is picking up
<bigcalm> Snow has left us now
<MartijnVdS> we haven't had any yet \o/
<dimpy> are you guys all Ubuntu experts?
<bigcalm> No, we just like using Ubuntu :)
<bigcalm> Some people have more experience than others
<MartijnVdS> some people know a lot though
<bigcalm> Some people call me the space cowboy
<dimpy> okay, i find ubuntu tough to work with
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: what do you find tough about it?
<dimpy> how to use it.. as i am stuck with this netwroking problem :(
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: Maybe if you wrote a longer explanation of what you want to do, we can help better?
<dimpy> hehe.. you want me to write?
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: like what do you want to connect to what? What do you want to do with it? etc.
<dimpy> likewise how to connect to internet in it...also what is this atheros driver?
<directhex> is he dim? @_@
<MartijnVdS> directhex: I think "virtualization" might be a hard concept
<MartijnVdS> directhex: That VMs only see the virtual "hardware", not the real hardware of the machine they run on
<foobarry> nothing more frustrating that following an incomplete build doc
<foobarry> suddenly trail goes cold and you're left trying to fathom what the heck is happening
<dimpy> can i do with bridged networking :)
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: that's probably not supported with wifi, because of how the protocol works
<directhex> you can bridge onto a wireless adapter, but it'll still behave as a wired adapter, and rely on the host to be associated with an SSID
<directhex> iirc
<dimpy> big deal.. connect toh ho jaega
<MartijnVdS> directhex: won't work, multiple mac addresses on a wifi client would require multiple sessions to the AP
<MartijnVdS> or "4-address mode", aka WDS
<dimpy> what is WDS?
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_distribution_system
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: not supported on most "normal" clients though, especially in Windows.
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: also, the access point needs to be set up right
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: if both the AP and the client are atheros, and run Linux, it's possible to set it up on the *host* (the guest still won't see wifi)
<dimpy> see i have to simulate ns2 in ubuntu..how can i do that?
<directhex> on real tin?
<directhex> does ns2 *really* require a wireless network card, not wired?
<dimpy> not like that but i can have only wireless available to me
<MartijnVdS> if it's a network *simulator*, why would it require network at all?
<dimpy> actually i need to create a virtual environment
<MartijnVdS> so you create a bunch of VMs, and configure their (virtual) network devices in vmware, then set up IPs/vlans/etc. inside the VMs, done?
<dimpy> are you making my problem more easier or more tougher?
<MartijnVdS> easier, I think?
<dimpy> arghhh..frustrated with my project
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: My only suggestion is to divide your problem into smaller steps
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: then take the smaller step, and then the next, etc.
<dimpy> are you a student?
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: If the problem is still hard, divide it into steps again, and do those separately
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: I was one once
<dimpy> so.. should i install ubuntu directly into my lappy?
<MartijnVdS> dimpy: that depends on what you want to do (which we still don't have a clear idea of..)
<directhex> there is a third way
<directhex> you can pass real USB devices through to your emulated OS
<directhex> so you could buy a linux-compatible USB wifi stick, and pass that through to emulated ubuntu
<dimpy> thanks i'l try
<shauno> wildly off-topic but I gotta ask; any suggestions for http proxy software which will authenticate users against a windows domain?  (pref. free since it's going to last 2-3 hours in a lab)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: apache should be able to do that
<diplo> Squid? I set my squid at the last place to auth via Windows AD
<MartijnVdS> shauno: http://blog.karssen.org/2010/03/03/using-windows-ad-for-apache-authentication/ ?
<shauno> hm didn't know squid will do that;  I'll probably stick to that then, since they'll be my go-to for other auth methods too
<MartijnVdS> shauno: apache's mod_proxy is easy if you know apache configs though
<shauno> I suspect I've bitten off more than I can chew
<diplo> shauno: Wasn't quick to set up, but once setup it worked well
<shauno> I'm not sure I even want to admit where I'm stuck.  my lack of familiarity with Windows is hilarious
<daftykins> i think smoothwall used to offer a transparent squid caching proxy
<foobarry> tomcat app gives a 404. should it be in /usr/share/tomcat or /var/lib/tomcat?
<awilkins> ~tomcat
<awilkins> ~tomcat7
<awilkins> (wherever that is)
<foobarry> hmm,. i think i have bigger issues
<foobarry> does grooveshark let me buy songs?
<foobarry> has a song i can't find elsewhere
<shauno> note to self: never, ever claim I know the first thing about msft platforms.  I just had to sneakernet chrome across because I couldn't figure out how to get IE to let me download it
<daftykins> !?
<daftykins> which IE on which 'dows? :)
<neuro> what was wrong with going to google.com/chrome
<neuro> i've done that many a time
<daftykins> they have some funky thing which bypasses most security questions and just runs an installer app auto
<neuro> yeah it's a standard ms "install stuff off the web" thingy
<neuro> been about for years
<shauno> server 2012 r2.  it keeps telling me I need to add the site to a list, but adding it doesn't seem to do much
<neuro> aah security restrictions probably
<shauno> so very glad I've boxed off this lab lan quite nicely, because I have dangerously little clue what I'm doing
<daftykins> ah yes *that* thing
<shauno> er, they've boxed off ..
<neuro> http://blog.blksthl.com/2012/11/28/how-to-disable-ie-enhanced-security-in-windows-server-2012/
<neuro> first hit on google for "windows server 2012 ie enhanced security disable"
<shauno> easy answer; plug in usb stick, install stuffs :)
<daftykins> ^
<neuro> lame :)
<daftykins> nah, you should leave IE in its' default state imo
<daftykins> bypass using it altogether ;)
<Laney> urg, the house stinks of bleach now
<neuro> you only have to disable it for the time it takes to install chrome
<shauno> it's a bunch of VMs that'll be nuked before I leave today.  getting it working > doing it properly
<daftykins> Laney: heh how nuts did you go?
<neuro> you could probably have googled and disabled and downloaded and installed and re-enabled in the time it took you to sneakernet it ;)
<Laney> daftykins: quite!
<Laney> did some de-mildewing on the wall and curtains with a spray
<daftykins> oic
 * daftykins glues neuro to his chair
 * neuro hulks the hell out of the chair
<foobarry> anyone signed into oyster web site lately? its asking me to setup new stuff, which is v suspicious
<diddledan> foobarry: they need to know your shoesize to determine the best size of escalator on the underground
<Laney> give up
<Laney> I tried to recover my oyster account details but can't do it
<Laney> no idea what postcode they have
<monotoko> "TE 11 ST"
<monotoko> someone did an UPDATE and forgot to add a WHERE statement
<Laney> on the live database!
<dwatkins> I managed to accidentally swap Oyster cards with someone, thankfully I hadn't enabled automatic top-ups.
<diddledan> o_O
<monotoko> UPDATE card SET customer='dwatkins';
<monotoko> ... I've dealt with too much SQL today :(
<dwatkins> heh
<daftykins> :D
 * Laney will be in the big scary london tomorrow
<dwatkins> I logged in and could see where the guy had been. We swapped the cards back, though.
<dwatkins> I went in to London on Friday, spent most of the day driving there, having lunch then driving back.
<monotoko> Laney: I'm going to China in a month
<dwatkins> (I was staying in Reading, so not so far as it would usually be from Edinburgh)
<Laney> monotoko: is that as big and scary?
<Laney> I guess it's a little bit bigger :P
<monotoko> Laney: just a little bit, then I've got to travel 1000 miles across China
<monotoko> :(
<diddledan> dwatkins: they need a system like banks that whenever you use your oyster card "unusually" it blocks it for "fraud prevention purposes" :-) (by "unusually" my bank tends to replace the meaning with "normally")
<daftykins> ^
<daftykins> same here
<daftykins> i've actually gotten a refund for the wasted time after their staff did it to me last
<diddledan> nice
<daftykins> just a standard online order from a retailer i'd spent with for years
<daftykins> so i said enough was enough, you're causing me hassle. refund me
<diddledan> yeah, they seem to refuse payments that happen every month
<dwatkins> I assume everyone's seen the 'Oyster card ring' where someone melted the plastic and made a ring for their RFID chip
<daftykins> so they calculate a rate per hour and ask you how much time you had wasted
<dwatkins> http://www.ds72.com/latest-work/oyster-ring
<daftykins> hehehe
<monotoko> the bank will happily let me spend a grand online, but won't let me spend Â£20 at
<monotoko> Morrisons
<daftykins> lol
<foobarry> for 3 years in a row i couldn't buy my annual osyeter card
<shauno> I still haven't convinced my bank that no, making significant purchases at 3am isn't an unusual pattern
<SuperMatt> shauno: especially if you do it all the time
<daftykins> maybe they identify it as the 'late night drunken purchases people regret'
<daftykins> so they're trying to 'help' :D
<diplo> hah, thought IRC had gone quiet.. disconnected but hadn't displayed broken pipe :/
<daftykins> D:
<MartijnVdS> diplo: aww :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> any git gurus around? I have a remote branch and I want to compare it to the master before I do a git pull (One thing I miss from svn, being able to update individual files/dirs)...
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: "git log branch ^otherbranch" shows all csets not in otherbranch that are in branch
<MartijnVdS> uh
<MartijnVdS> yes, "all changesets in branch that are not in otherbranch"
<MartijnVdS> also works with diff
<TheOpenSourcerer> git log master origin
<MartijnVdS> the ^ is important
<TheOpenSourcerer> Oh
<MartijnVdS> so you probably want: git log my_local_branch ^origin/master
<TheOpenSourcerer> So I see the following:
<TheOpenSourcerer> * master
<TheOpenSourcerer>   remotes/origin/HEAD -> origin/master
<TheOpenSourcerer>   remotes/origin/master
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: that's "git branch -v"?
<TheOpenSourcerer> git branch -a
<TheOpenSourcerer> When I do "git log master ^origin/master" I get nothing
<MartijnVdS> and "git log origin/master ^master" ?
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nothing
<TheOpenSourcerer> When I remove the ^ I get some stuff but not as much as I was expecting
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/315911/git-for-beginners-the-definitive-practical-guide
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9190735/git-compare-commit-id-between-branches
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/822811/showing-which-files-have-changed-between-git-branches
<TheOpenSourcerer> Thanks but Weird.
<TheOpenSourcerer> $:~/code$ git log origin/master...master
<TheOpenSourcerer> $:~/code$ git log master...origin/master
<TheOpenSourcerer> nada
<MartijnVdS> then there's nothing in origin/master that's not in master
<MartijnVdS> maybe you need to git fetch --all first
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK
<MartijnVdS> (or git fetch origin)
<diddledan> how very dare he. someone stole my name! http://www.news-herald.com/general-news/20140130/lake-metroparks-see-increase-of-night-activity-without-increase-in-crime
<daftykins> someone diddled diddledan!?
<diddledan> last I checked, not only am I not an american but I don't believe I'm a chief ranger either
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: well, he kind of asked for it with his name
<diddledan> daftykins: I'm forever being diddled
<daftykins> diddledan: are you related to Desmond?
<diddledan> not that I know of
<daftykins> you should look into that
<diddledan> yeah
<daftykins> you could be saying - great uncle Q!
<diddledan> he was awesome
<daftykins> "that's my lunch!"
<TheOpenSourcerer> MartijnVdS: Thanks. It was my own bad! I'd already pulled that remote repo. Just not symlinked the modified files to the production app :-(
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: time to catch it all in a small script and teach that to chef? :)
<TheOpenSourcerer> lol
<MartijnVdS> chef <3
<MartijnVdS> TheOpenSourcerer: it can watch a certain branch in a git repo, and run scripts/update files/etc. when it changes. Among a million other things ;0
<MartijnVdS> ;)
<TheOpenSourcerer> Nah - don't want it to automatically do that!
<MartijnVdS> it could though. It can trigger on lots of other things as well
<TheOpenSourcerer> OK - I have heard you mention chef before. Will defo look into it.
<daftykins> new boiler = amazing \o/
<daftykins> i can't even hear it O_O
<diddledan> parden?
<diddledan> spelling
<diddledan> pardon?
<bigcalm> I wish we couldn't hear our heating. It's the pipes expanding/contracting under the floor boards that keep my wife awake
<foobarry> i hear mine thruogh earplugs
<foobarry> i wouldn't have it on at night but baby
<popey> talc fixes that
<foobarry> on the baby?
<shauno> I forgot to pay my oil bill.  no more squeaky pipes!
<popey> on the pipes
<diddledan> shauno: is that why you're using the open fire?
<shauno> bingo
<bigcalm> popey: good idea, still means taking up the floor boards though :)
<popey> get a man in
 * bigcalm phones his dad
<diddledan> bigcalm: lol, that's my method, too
<popey> https://plus.google.com/u/0/102395890176622666938/posts/6PqiqDfKN9x
<diddledan> I hate to imagine when I get kids relying on me for DIY skillz
<foobarry> i wake up when an spider farts downstairs
<foobarry> there's no hope for me
<foobarry> was wide awake at 5am this morning until 20 mins before alarm
<diddledan> I'm not sure I could cope with cloud-to-butt
<diddledan> I'm assuming his own stream read "the butt to butt extension"
<bashrc> but it's not water vapour
<bigcalm> popey: wtf?
<shauno> can confirm google results "Chrome Web Store - Butt to Butt Plus" as the first result
<awilkins> I hear next doors heating, or something
<awilkins> THey have some appliance that makes the house vibrate at the resonant frequency of my skull
<awilkins> Which is kind of annoying
<awilkins> Being British I'm too polite to go and say "Hey, could you maybe shove a piece of cardboard under it
<awilkins> Would have to confront the fact that I hear them shouting and throwing things
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: anonymously send them some rubber feet in the mail
<diddledan> awilkins: probably the washing machine?
<awilkins> I guess it's their dryer
<awilkins> Or heating
<awilkins> On a timer, because it goes off in the middle of the night
<foobarry> FAIL - Encountered exception org.apache.catalina.LifecycleException: Failed to start component [StandardEngine[Catalina].StandardHost[localhost].StandardContext[/transmart]]
<foobarry> can't start a tomcat webapp ...any suggestions where to look?
<diddledan> foobarry: the logfile :-p
<foobarry> java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: Doc base must point to a WAR file
<foobarry> ooh a new error
<daftykins> oh wow that was the best shower i've ever had 8D
<diddledan> o_O
<daftykins> new boiler = amazing
<awilkins> Whee : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/01/30/uk_picks_open_document_format_for_all_government_files/
<diddledan> awilkins: I was just reading a topic on ubuntu-uk mailing list over that
<awilkins> Maybe they'll do as I keep saying they should and allocate about 5% of their MS Office budget to funding an office of LibreOffice development instead
<awilkins> Â£5M a year would buy some serious development
<daftykins> :D
<popey> I have a file called ~ in my /
<popey> I am scared to delete it
<foobarry> lol
<foobarry> rm -i ./~
<popey> uh. no.
<foobarry> :P
<diddledan> -i?
<diddledan> aah, interactive
<diddledan> popey: rm /\~
<diddledan> OR '/~'
<diddledan> you need to escape the tilde otherwise it'll expand to your home folder
<foobarry> rm -i './~' should work, try it on a vm
<diddledan> foobarry: that'll remove it from "current directory" not from "root"
<foobarry> yep
<foobarry> obv you would cd into that dir
<foobarry> you could always try to copy/rename to see if theory works
<dwatkins> I'd use 'find' to be sure.
<dwatkins> http://hastebin.com/bohuwuvara.txt like that
<diddledan> emerge ftl
 * diddledan messing in gentoo again
<daftykins> heh
<daftykins> you masochist
<diddledan> my nexus 5 seems to randomly turn on it's screen and accept inputs from my pocket
<daftykins> ruh-roh
<daftykins> i found my Nexus 4 saying wait 5 seconds to try again on my pattern lock a bit ago
<daftykins> it must've done the same
<daftykins> pocket been guessing my pattern =/
<diddledan> I was in the middle of nowhere and suddenly I heard music playing that wasn't the same music as I had on the car radio
<diddledan> it was confusing
<diddledan> it seems to turn the screen on with zero pressure on the physical buttons
<diddledan> I just moved my iphone off the face of it and it did it again
<daftykins> apple :(
<diddledan> but it's not the apple that's waking up on it's own :-p
<daftykins> i bet imposter diddledan doesn't have anything apple
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> http://www.engadget.com/2014/01/16/cos-china-operating-system/
<diddledan> love the video intro
<shauno> wonder if it'll take off like Red Flag did
<MartijnVdS> popey: do you know the status of the Intel/Xorg memory leak bug?
 * MartijnVdS doesn't remember the bug 3
<lubotu3> bug 3 in Launchpad itself "Custom information for each translation team" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/3
<MartijnVdS> bug #
<MartijnVdS> <- scared of rebooting atm ;)
<diddledan> do it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: but memory leak!
<popey> MartijnVdS: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-video-intel/+bug/1272338
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1272338 in xserver-xorg-video-intel (Ubuntu) "Xorg memory leak on trusty" [High,Confirmed]
<diddledan> it'll all get sucked up when you reboot ready to start leaking again
<popey> xorg for me is currently a big big
<popey>   PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU %MEM     TIME+ COMMAND
<MartijnVdS> I last rebooted 2 weeks ago
<popey>  5591 root      20   0  9.793g 4.374g 180676 S  11.3 28.1 347:36.39 Xorg
<MartijnVdS>  1446 root      20   0 5234696 4,215g 2,745g S   1,3 27,7 100:31.72 Xorg
<MartijnVdS> hmmm
<popey> thats ~48 hours ago
<MartijnVdS> 4GB "RES" too.. but way less virt and a lot more shr
<popey> "Your travel authorization has been approved and you are authorized to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program"
<popey> phew
<MartijnVdS> but then again, why would you ;)
<diddledan> visa waiver program?
<popey> ESTA
<popey> https://esta.cbp.dhs.gov/esta/
<popey> the thing you have to fill in before you go to the USA
<popey> and pay for
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah, the "We're friends, so you don't need to bend over backwards as far as some other people to get into the US"
<MartijnVdS> thing
<diddledan> "You plan to travel to the United States for business or pleasure."
<diddledan> I like that one, because there isn't much else you can go for
<diddledan> I suppose they prescreen people that fill out the form and state that they plan to travel there for crime
<popey> work
<popey> education
<diddledan> oic
<diddledan> yeah
<diddledan> ok so I'm blonde
<diddledan> maybe not physically blonde but mentally at least
<popey> we all have our days
<diddledan> I'd like to have my day and eat it.... err what?
<mapps> ]learning my espana
<mapps> :D
<mapps> duolingo.com
<diddledan> lol @ openssl compile: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu-ranlib ../../libcrypto.a || echo Never mind.
<brobostigon> new tbbt 8pm :)
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> tomorrow's best bits tonight?
<brobostigon> ?
<popey> no idea what tbbt is
<brobostigon> the big bang theory, the tc comedy.
<brobostigon> tv*
<mapps> yea
<mapps> big bang is good
<mapps> bit seen almost every single ep
<popey> I've kinda gone off it.
<mapps> hi popey - i didnt realise Farnborough was Hants thought it was surrey for some reason
<mapps> im in Bisley ..nearish
<popey> I can see surrey from here
<popey> on the border
<mapps> yea
<mapps> You sound the same anyway ...:) im guessing you're born in the south?
<popey> I was born further south than this
<mapps> ah
<popey> lived in this area for 30 years
<mapps> yea..you're accent sounds basically same as mine
<mapps> pleasant surprise..I always get comments up here (stoke) on my accent
<popey> heh
<mapps> with some clowns even saying i put it on to sound posh!
<diddledan> mapps: us southerners _are_ posh
 * SuperEngineer splashed out a whole Â£2.79 to buy Duke Nukem 3D to celebrate the Chinese new Yeare [year of the horse]
 * SuperEngineer  is not at all Chinese, but any excuse will do ;)
<brobostigon> :)
<ali1234> http://www.ubuntu.com/download/zh-CN - no crash here
<ali1234> oops, wrong channel
<popey> heh
<ali1234> i just saw "chinese"
<mapps> diddledan,  ;]
<ali1234> popey: do you still have backups of all the minecraft worlds from the old servers?
<popey> yes
<popey> http://popey.com/minecraft/snapshots/
<ali1234> cheers
<popey> np
<popey>  http://popey.com/~alan/2014-01-30_20.28.10.png
<popey> odd
<popey> whats all that then
<diddledan> popey: maybe it's a lost civilisation that's been fossilised?
<diddledan> although it's a snow biome so maybe icicles?
<diddledan> try some smashy smashy aka punching a tree
<ali1234> looks like trees got turned into ice?
<diddledan> freeze-ray?
<ali1234> dunno. what's the context? new save? or an old one imported?
<mapps> never played minecraft
<ali1234> it's the best game
<popey> is new generated blocks
<popey> and they're not trees
<ali1234> yeah apparently it's a new biome type
<MartijnVdS> the "Frozen wasteland" biome?
<popey> oh
<webpigeon> http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Biome/Ice_Plains_Spikes
<brobostigon> webpigeon: interesting.
<webpigeon> Hey brobostigon :)
<brobostigon> hey :)
<bigcalm> Can anybody help me with this? https://twitter.com/bigcalm/status/428944552670814209
<daftykins> http://s3-ec.buzzfed.com/static/2014-01/enhanced/webdr06/30/14/anigif_enhanced-30527-1391111586-6.gif
<diddledan> pmsl
<diddledan> that was... unexpected
<dutchie> bigcalm: i have plantronics gamecom 780 and they are pretty ok
<daftykins> =]
<dutchie> only comfortable long term if i don't have glasses on though
<bigcalm> dutchie: ah, I have glasses on the entire time I'm at the computer
<dutchie> that will probably make it harder i guess
<bigcalm> Yep, the cans I am wearing right now feel as though they are crushing my skull :)
<diddledan> I can't see the computer if I haven't got glasses on
<bigcalm> Great sound quality though
<dutchie> i broke my glasses so am full time contact lenses atm
<bigcalm> :(
#ubuntu-uk 2014-01-31
<ali1234> bigcalm: can't you get separate headphones and mic?
<ali1234> i use the mic in my webcam... got no complaints yet
<mapps> morning
<diddledan> morning
<diddledan> (no sleepy yet :-o)
<diddledan> guess I'm working tired today :-p
<mapps> no sleep?! lol whats your job
<shauno> the downside of fighting crime all night, is leaving you rather pooped at the office the next day
<mapps> lol
<mapps> theres a documentary about those that dressup as super hereoes and patrol our streets
<shauno> there was one in the town I used to live in in the states
<shauno> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/05/mark-wayne-williams-batman_n_2078873.html
<mapps> heh
<mapps> not fmr me..streets are dangerous and they havent got a gun or anything
<shauno> the funny thing is, when you hear him do interviews .. he doesn't actually come off as nuts
<diddledan> so.. umm.. deb packaging
<diddledan> via launchpad ppas
<diddledan> I'm struggling to find out how to get it to build for multiple releases of ubuntu using the same package definition
<diddledan> aah, second argument to dput?
<diddledan> dput ppa:me/foo distro
<mapps> yea#
 * diddledan tries
<mapps> what uyou packaging
<diddledan> I need to finish working on the package first I guess :-p
<diddledan> libgeos to provide a php binding
<diddledan> https://github.com/phayes/geoPHP/wiki/GEOS
<mapps> whats libgeos?
<MartijnVdS> according to apt, "A geometry engine for GIS"
<diddledan> yeah, that
<diddledan> wtf? it's only 8am and stuff's just come through my door?!
<mapps> lol
<mapps> where do you live?! our posts like 1pm
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: what kind of stuff?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: stuff you actually want? ;)
<mapps> ah stuff..i assumed post
<diddledan> no :-( boring advertisement for flooring direct to my door (should I want it)
<diddledan> yeah, my post is usually around 1-2
<mapps> you not worried about work? id hate to work if id had 0 sleep
<diddledan> does apt-source allow you to pull a different release's source package?
<diddledan> apt-get source**
<diddledan> nah, I'll be fine :-p
<diddledan> I've got plenty of cola
<mapps> you work from home? guess could be ok if so
<mapps> but in the office..ugh
<mapps> workaholics is so good:)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yes, it does allow that
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: if you have the appropriate deb-src line in sources.list{,.d/*}
<diplo> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<knightwise> morning !  !
<knightwise> FrrrrrrIdayyyy !
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<knightwise> how are you peeps doing today ?
<brobostigon> my brain needs waking up.
<brobostigon> caffine injection required.
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: tea time then?
<brobostigon> coffee time, :)
<brobostigon> two pebble fw updates in two days, quick working, :)
<popey> On the way home from the London office the other day I sat next to a guy who had a pebble watch
<popey> I got talking to him. Turns out he's an Ubuntu user.
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> cool.
<diddledan> popey: we're getting everywhere!
<brobostigon> pebble users, yes, :)
<popey> turns out he also does translations on launchpad
<popey> so that was nice to hear
<popey> he's a en_GB pedant
<diddledan> \o/
<brobostigon> maybe he can help with some of the pebble app trnslations also,
<popey> it was funny really, i only got talking to him because i liked the look of the ipad game he was playing
<popey> noticed he also had python and vim on his ipad
<popey> figured he must be a geek
<popey> So unbritish to talk to strangers on the train â»
<diddledan> the movie of that title tells us why it's a bad ideaâ¢
 * knightwise is getting his note 3 tomorrow <Â°>
<brobostigon> is that one of the ones thats a tablet or a phablet ?
<SuperMatt> when you change the time of a cron job to test it during the day, it's a good idea to change it back to when it was supposed to be >.<
 * popey bought a fan to cool down his bitcoin miners. they run a touch hot
<MartijnVdS> popey: lower heating bill!
<popey> MartijnVdS: indeed! move the heat around
<dwatkins> popey: what kind of machines are you using for that?
<popey> usb jobbies
<popey> not very powerful, got them cheap for a bit of fun
<MartijnVdS> "it's the cheapest way to get a lot of fans!"
<dwatkins> That reminds me, I need to fit fans to my TV cabinet (the NAS lives in it)
<MartijnVdS> my NAS lives in an old kitchen cabinet I've moved into my computer room
<MartijnVdS> I've also put it on washing machine "feet" to reduce vibration
<jussi> Hrm, anyone know any decent/reasonable priced/nice B&B's/hotels in or around liverpool area?
<jussi> lets say in a 50 mile radius ?
<jussi> MartijnVdS: thats actually a very good idea, washing machine feet under the nas!
<MartijnVdS> jussi: "decent" + "liverpool area" -> no matches found
<jussi> MartijnVdS: nasty
<directhex> new on linux! a game about deception! you play as the father to a suburban family, desperately hoping nobody realises you're an octopus in a suit and not a human at all. http://store.steampowered.com/app/224480/
<MartijnVdS> directhex: w.. wut?
<jussi> directhex: do you get to eat the people that realise?
<directhex> jussi, how would an octopus eat people?
<jussi> directhex: "sluuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp"
<directhex> MartijnVdS, "Octodad: Dadliest Catch is a game about destruction, deception, and fatherhood. The player controls Octodad, a dapper octopus masquerading as a human, as he goes about his life. Octodad's existence is a constant struggle, as he must master mundane tasks with his unwieldy boneless tentacles while simultaneously keeping his cephalopodan nature a secret from his human family. "
<MartijnVdS> directhex: it looks as if the controls work the same as in Surgeon Simulator
<directhex> MartijnVdS, that comparison has been made in reviews!
<jussi> MartijnVdS: mind, When I first read your statement about the NAS... it went something like: "my NSA lives in an old kitchen cabinet I've moved into my computer room"
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://i.imgur.com/96UJIIo.png
<diddledan> lol
<diddledan> fools
<MartijnVdS> jussi: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Washing-Machine-Anti-Vibration-Feet-x-4-for-appliances-dampers-/190549284550 <-- I've used feet like those
<knightwise> anyone going to fosdem in need of a cheap dataplan for the weekend ?
<knightwise> 15 euros for 2 gigs ?
 * MartijnVdS waits for the "Roaming in Europe costs exactly the same as using your phone at home" thing the EU is pushing
 * awilkins goes RARR because Empathy doesn't support proxies
<jussi> MartijnVdS: I have a set of those in the cupboard
<MartijnVdS> awilkins: but proxies would confuse people! they're extra configuration settings!
<shauno> oh hell yeah.  I'm currently on "costs exactly the same as at home .. for the first 25Mb.  then we'll get you!"
<jussi> shauno: ouch
<jussi> I have a nice one that allows me to have unlimited in Nordic countries, but anywhere else you get slogged
<MartijnVdS> shauno: Mine is currently "You get 35MB/day for â¬2, and â¬max/kb after that"
<awilkins> I have a desire to implement a super-proxy that just provides a proxy that understands the heck out of every proxy config out there and just provides a local proxy server that stupid apps can grok
<jussi> awilkins: a proxy for a proxy?
<awilkins> IE super-proxy knows NTLM/SSPI and PAC scripts and all that jazz
<awilkins> jussi,
<jussi> awilkins: :D
<awilkins> Yeah, the main problem is that I have a PAC script, and all the OS does is hand the URL of the script to the app that asks for system proxy config
<awilkins> Which is fine for browsers
<shauno> I'm fighting with that at the moment.  an app that doesn't grok NTLM, but also refuses to use any alternative methods provided by the same proxy
<awilkins> But virtually nothing else understands PAC scripts or NTLM
<popey> jussi: i stayed in base2stay in the centre of liverpool for oggcamp
<popey> jussi: booked through booking.com
<MartijnVdS> booking.com has useful reviews usually
<popey> yeah, Dave2 and I got the "last room" (we ended up with a room each)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday and happy Chinese New Year! :-D
<popey> æ°å¹´å¥½
<MartijnVdS> popey: gesundheit
<diddledan> lol
<JamesTait> popey, that looks different to what I was looking at last night.
<jussi> thanks popey, Ill have a look there.
<jussi> Might be worth while waiting for the booking, as the football that weekend just got cancelled and I guess some of the places might get cancellations
<Laney> wow
<Laney> this train conductor knows all of the platforms for everybody's changes
<directhex> ooh, a linux port is coming for multi-award-winning eastern european bureaucracy simulator Papers Please
<jussi> directhex: that sounds.... scary?
<directhex> http://store.steampowered.com/app/239030/
<diddledan> dpkg-buildpackage -S <-- it's complaining about : gpg: cancelled by user
<diddledan> i.e. it's not asking me for my password
<shauno> re: "papers, please"; I'll admit, I don't get it
<diddledan> how do I get gpg-agent to know what my password should be?
<diddledan> (commandline)
<diddledan> it's a network box I'm working on, so no gui
<twager> Anyone tell me if the Nokia Lumia mobiles mount as a block device in Linux ?
<bashrc> I did add a gpg section to a cheat command a while ago
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: http://www.gnupg.org/documentation/manuals/gnupg/Agent-Configuration.html ?
<diddledan> yeah, so that doesn't help
<MartijnVdS> I guess you just decrypt/sign something. Then the agent will ask for your passphrase, then the key is loaded?
<diddledan> but I'm already trying to sign something via dpkg-buildpackage
<diddledan> it's supposed to prompt for a password according to docs
<diddledan> but it ain't doing it
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: do you have a "pinentry" like directive in gnupg.conf?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: which is set to something sensible
<diddledan> no idea. it's an out-of-the-box ubuntu 12.04.3 server
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah, you need to read a bit about configuring gnupg-agent then :)
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: it's not as plug&play as you'd hope :(
<Laney> screaming train child of woe
<jussi> this is an interesting 3D thing kinda like second life: http://www.meshmoon.com/ - based on opensource (realxtend). The web client uses webgl and websockets. its pretty cool stuff :)
<diddledan> MartijnVdS: I'm not sure what fixed it but after logging out and back-in the password prompt works
<diddledan> I think it was a combo-meal of installing pinentry-curses (as opposed to the already installed -gtk2 version) and logging-out and in
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: cool!
<foobarry> firefox smooth scrolling is anything but
<foobarry> text rippage more like
<diddledan> it's old, but I just rediscovered it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXV-yaFmQNk
<foobarry> anyone used MS terminal services gateway?
<foobarry> need a rdp over https solution
<diplo> not used the TS gateway, we used to use a Cisco ASA to do a https solution, worked quite well ( can't remember the exact set up though )
<diddledan> ooh, I forgot we made that "live": http://mitocare.be/
<diddledan> yey for the belgish
<diddledan> with their flemmy-speak
<diddledan> (nederlands)
<MartijnVdS> Fleghmish
<diddledan> buggy licious: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/geos/+bug/1274916
<lubotu3> Ubuntu bug 1274916 in geos (Ubuntu) "missing php library support" [Undecided,New]
<diddledan> ppa licious: https://launchpad.net/~diddledan/+archive/libgeos
<daftykins> hey guys, i forget where it was but did anyone else read that all A.M. broadcast is being switched off?
<foobarry> no
<foobarry> one day i expect , a rolling traget of 5 years?
<daftykins> but the BBC definitely started doing it right?
<daftykins> i read somewhere a while back that they'd begun doing it to see if anyone noticed
<foobarry> all football fans everywhere
<foobarry> they would notice
<DJones> daftykins: http://www.theguardian.com/media/2012/nov/09/bbc-criticised-closing-medium-wave-radio
<daftykins> DJones: ty sir
<DJones> Seems to say that it won't be done in the near future after complaints
<daftykins> indeedy
<foobarry> http://www.wimp.com/travelsworld/
<foobarry> brilliant
<daftykins> so many of those kindsa things nwo
<daftykins> *now
<foobarry> rather them than me
<daftykins> yeah
<foobarry> i hope he got time to enjoy the places
<daftykins> looks like he could be arsen's brother :D
<foobarry> they are always good looking people
<foobarry> remember the one being led by his hot girlfriends hand?
<daftykins> nope
<foobarry> the firefox home page search bar never works
<daftykins> huh? part of the UI or the actual google search box?
<foobarry> the about:startpage
<foobarry> which is the default firefox home page
<daftykins> that page doesn't exist in mine
<foobarry> version?
<daftykins> 26
<foobarry> me too
<daftykins> tried a clean profile?
<foobarry> nope
<daftykins> entering about:startpage doesn't work
<foobarry> weird
<daftykins> i've definitely seen the result you describe, typing in works but hitting enter would do nothing
<foobarry> yeah
<daftykins> but now i just have an orange 'Firefox' with small logo where the certificate info usually is - and an empty address field
<foobarry> hmm
<foobarry> sample size of 2 doesnt' tell us who's got the problem. but i think its me
<daftykins> i'm on Windows mind
<foobarry> :-o
<daftykins> (shh don't tell them)
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/sh74tyvfzxk5fbh/ff.png
<daftykins> is that what you see?
<foobarry> yes
 * foobarry waits for a buntu user
 * foobarry eats some chocolate
<daftykins> *boots VM*
<daftykins> only got 13.10 mind
<arsen> hi
<daftykins> he's alive!
<daftykins> arsen that guy is your long lost brother
<daftykins> how do sir?
<arsen> good thanks
<arsen> apparently i'm a goodlooking traveller?
<daftykins> lol yes
<arsen> i do like to travel.
<MartijnVdS> http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/The_Traveler ?
<daftykins> i'd be somewhat less suspicious of arsen trying to groom Wesley Crusher if he were him
<daftykins> :P
<arsen> whaaatt
<daftykins> Star Trek character
<arsen> yeah i got that reference - i have a small star trek watching past
<daftykins> ah ok
<daftykins> well he was a bit suspect with Wesley of course
<daftykins> ;D
<daftykins> (shut up Wesley!)
<DJones> As he faded in and out .... Oooh-Er
<DJones> Seem to remember there was an episode where the traveller kept phasing in & out of time
<DJones> Or was that another character
<foobarry> arggh ubuntu one hasn't been updating
<daftykins> hmm not sure
<foobarry> State: AUTH_FAILED
<diddledan> gotta love dr bev crusher's last words to wesley as he leaves with the traveler: "you've gotta keep warm on those other plains of existance" (or similar, as she wraps him in a jumper)
<daftykins> foobarry: hmm v26 on saucy worked fine, i typed in 'test' and hit enter
<daftykins> diddledan: ;)
<arsen> sorry, distracted - someone just delivered two dozen krispy kremes to my desk
<diddledan> oh.. emm.. gee..\
<MartijnVdS> arsen: poidh
<diddledan> krispy kremes is unfair
<foobarry> and not that nice
<diddledan> true
<diddledan> better than nowt?
<foobarry> i have chocolate
<arsen> ill send pic to daftykins for confirmation
<foobarry> of good looks?
<diddledan> <3 chocolate
<arsen> gurth, foobarry
<arsen> apparently we have a shipment of M&S chocolate rounds incoming too
<arsen> this is going to be a terrible afternoon of riding the sugar rollercoaster
<arsen> daftykins  are you not on whatsapp? (i dont blame you)
<MartijnVdS> u wotsapp, m8
<dwatkins> !u
<lubotu3> U is the 21st letter of the modern latin alphabet. Neither 'U' nor 'Ur' are words in the English language. Neither are 'R', 'Y', 'l8', 'ryt',  'Ne1' nor 'Bcuz'. Mangled English is hard for non-native English speakers. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/abbreviations/ for more information.
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/u-wot-m8
<dwatkins> ah yes
<daftykins> arsen: yeah i'm on it sir
<arsen> if only there were an insta-upload-generate-a-link app for iphone that i actually had
<foobarry> o365 kills firefox in an instant
<daftykins> arsen: perhaps you only have an old UK # for me?
<BigRedS> Eurgh. Apache seems to have had some peciliar ideas in 2.4.6. Or at least the debian maintainers have :(
<dwatkins> I thought that was exactly what imgur's app did, arsen
<arsen> probably does - i tried to install a caveat in the statement, hinting if anyone knew of one :p
<dwatkins> also, dropbox
<arsen> pah not a fan of dropbox
<arsen> its too "happy"
<MartijnVdS> arsen: you want a Gothbox?
<dwatkins> so there are many apps, you just don't like them ;)
<daftykins> krispy kreme situation confirmed
<daftykins> arsen tells truths!
<dwatkins> Emobox
<arsen> :D
<daftykins> arsen: is that a packet of HP brown sauce to the right of your HP mouse?
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> s/packet/sachet/
<arsen> its not my desk, technicaly - i put them on a colleagues
<daftykins> ah :D
<MartijnVdS> dwatkins: HP Brown sauce, isn't that what you get when you mix up deskjet cartridges? :)
<arsen> he be away.
<ali1234> actually if you mix together a lot of inkjet ink, you get purple
<ali1234> don't ask why i know this
<daftykins> aww do tell
<arsen> THAT's my desk :)
<diplo> BigRedS: all vhost files need to end in .conf afaik, it searches for that afaik
<arsen> still nothing particularly thrilling
<diplo> Same on centos
<BigRedS> diplo: yeah that's the stupid thing
<BigRedS> makes no sense: http://avi.co/s/apacheconf.png
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: look in sites-enabled
<MartijnVdS> oh wait you're doing that
<arsen> i stopped using apache in favour of lighttpd to try and get some consistency in vhost setup - every apache version seems to have a different way of doing things :<
<MartijnVdS> BigRedS: it does make sense: you say "ensite avi", it starts looking for "avi.conf", can't find it. Then you rename "avi" to "avi.conf", and then a2ensite van see it
<BigRedS> but up until Wheezy if I did a2ensite avi it'd link the file named 'avi'
<BigRedS> I don't get what's fixed by not doing that any more
<BigRedS> why would I have files in sites-enabled that I don't want apache to parse?
<diplo> Ah right, malformed files.. or having .old's being enabled
<diplo> I test on sites and disable them by mv site.conf to site.disabled
<diplo> So it's good in my use case
<BigRedS> why not just use a2ensite/a2dissite?
<diplo> Not on CentOS and other distros, that's Ubuntu/Debian? specific
<diplo> I use ubuntu for mine, but work still use centos
<arsen> ^
<BigRedS> oh, yeah, this is a Debian thing
<arsen> another confusing thing - tools seem to not be shared globally.
<BigRedS> well, different distros set things up differently. And RH tends to get it wrong :)
<diplo> CentOS looks for .confs as well, so that seems standardised so I guess the debian guys followed suit
<diplo> arsen: +1 it sucks
<arsen> yeah, sadly i've spent my last few years flipping between debian, ubuntu, centos, suse, gentoo etc - so i gave up in the end :(
<diplo> I do a2ensite first off on most distros and then when it doesn't work I remember to do the rest
<diplo> Also /etc/apache2 and centos /etc/httpd :/
<BigRedS> /etc/httpd/conf no less
<foobarry> how do i unlink with someone on linkedin?
<arsen> yeah that too diplo .. heh
<diplo> Write scripts, I have to allow for more cases of paths.. and centos doesn't have sites-avai and sites-ena
<BigRedS> because there's also logs under/etc just to make greppng a bit more of an arse
<diplo> I could of course make them
<arsen> combined with new and old distro versions - you get init.d, service httpd, service apache2 etcetc
<diplo> sound like old mean moaning :D
<foobarry> ah found it
<diplo> heh, at least I know it's not just me complaining to myself about these things :)
<BigRedS> well, computers are supposed to make things easier. I think it's fair to moan when they make things harder.
<BigRedS> that's what twitter's for, isn't it?
<diplo> heh
<arsen> pretty much BigRedS - my twitter account exists for complaining primarily.
<arsen> whatcha upto daftykins ?
<diddledan> I can't remember the last time I twatted
<daftykins> arsen: ah been tethered to the house from Wednesday through to this morning whilst having a new boiler fitted, got jobs to go to but it's raining so i'm debating going :D
<daftykins> none are urgent
<arsen> :)
<arsen> not been whisked up in the cryptocoin wave yet?
<MartijnVdS> dogecoin?
<daftykins> might be down to my lack of understanding, but i thought we'd passed the main peak of things
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: for now, probably
<daftykins> and all methods to obtain seem to be wrought with cost-defeating issues
<Myrtti> dunning-krugerrands </3
<arsen> well we've passed about 50 peaks
<arsen> its creating a new financial industry, its not a craze that hits off - BTC is going for years solidly now
<Myrtti> I refrain from making comments
<foobarry> sometimes being correct isn't sufficient when everybody else is doing it ;P
 * foobarry remembers the dotcom buble
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: doesn't mean you can't get rich off it ;)
<daftykins> heh
<ali1234> somebody needs to do a mash up of kim dotcom and michael buble
<Myrtti> my own personal and in no way connected with the possible opinion(s) of others, real persons or entities, is that I wish that people would try to get rich with their chosen dunning-krugerrands somewhere else than on freenode.
<Myrtti> *opinion
<ali1234> i don't understand why freenode allows all those shady exchanges to run channels
<ali1234> a lot of them are blatantly illegal
<Myrtti> and beyond saying that, I won't explain or go into detail, or speculate.
<Myrtti> for obvious reasons
<arsen> Myrtti  - yes - the crypto community is full of tards and its definitely having an impact on freenode.
<DC-D> thats the one
<cocoa117> how do you show all the routing tables for the local machine? i know ip route show table local shows the all the routing rules for the local table.
<cocoa117> how do i list all the available tables?
<ali1234> route -n
<cocoa117> ali1234, that's only for main table isn't?
<dwatkins> ali1234: they look pretty similar: http://hastebin.com/ranehofelo.txt
<daftykins> ugh, clients iMac still spamming raw postscript to her printer mid-job
<daftykins> and said iMac has frozen once more also
<shauno> I thought printers like postscript :)
<MartijnVdS> shauno: proper printers do ;) But see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAdspOtgciQ
<daftykins> shauno: seems this one likes to have a hissy fit
<shauno> I believe it's also traditional for printers to have hissy fits.  see: "PC Load Letter", "lp0 on fire", etc
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> they're on holiday this coming week so i shall disassemble the iMac and do a thermal paste re-do i think
<daftykins> plus check any ducts/vents what not for dust
<MartijnVdS> hmm
<shauno> heh, you're a braver man than I.  I don't open them for anything less than an autopsy
<MartijnVdS> today's trusty = no GTK theme in Chrome/QT apps?
<daftykins> shauno: i did an SSD upgrade in this one last year :)
<daftykins> i have the suction cup for the glass!
<daftykins> shauno: https://www.dropbox.com/s/a6sdd47qxbhfpf6/IMG_20130315_165142.jpg
<daftykins> simples ;)
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: is that SSD just.. hanging there?
<daftykins> double-sided tape sir!
<shauno> I've seen that done with a toilet plunger before.  which may seem particularly apt when you're half way through the process
<daftykins> well, sticky pads actually
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> you have to stand the glass up safely somewhere to avoid dust contamination on the inside
<shauno> completely off-topic, but I have to grump; paying $60 for a game, and then having to find a crack for it before you can use it.  not cool.
<daftykins> my Apple employee mate says i should reinstall to resolve the freezes
<daftykins> crack!? why-so?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: that's worse than Windows!
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: there it's just "Oh reboot and it'll be fine"
<shauno> it wants the DVD in the drive.  my dvdrom is in a drawer somewhere
<MartijnVdS> Apple? Reinstall, it'll be fine
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: haha it's not official advice, i did this SSD install and a clean Mavericks install myself
<daftykins> shauno: can't you feed the code into Steam and play discless? :>
<daftykins> assuming it's such a title
<shauno> it's not such a title :(
<daftykins> aww
<daftykins> Fight Club 2 on the way
<daftykins> 0o
<shauno> one I saw floating around recently, scenes from fight club with tyler edited out
<daftykins> 0o
<shauno> http://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/1vmqwl/fight_club_with_tyler_durden_digitally_removed/
<shauno> oddly, it appears I'm banned from vimeo, so I can't see it atm
<shauno> ohh, interesting.  they're blocking the referrer.  if you just hit refresh it's fine.  iiiiinteresting
<daftykins> haha
<daftykins> ty sir
<bigcalm> Very clever
<shauno> how on earth is it 9pm already? sorcery!
<diddledan> it's not, it's nearly 10pm
<shauno> shouldn't you be comatose?
<popey> i should pack
<daftykins> more jetsetting for popey!?
<popey> a bit
<shauno> fosdem?
<popey> nah, company sprint
<shauno> I need to have a word with Spotify.  it's suggesting The Mamas & The Papas :(
<shauno> slightly uncomfortable when the computer guesses I'm 50
<diddledan> you mean you're not?
<mapps> bourne supremacy on tv
<mapps> ;]
<diddledan> which one was that?
<mapps> 2nd i think
<diddledan> does anybody have any strong opinions on haxe? I'm wondering whether it could become a language to unify all my development under
<diddledan> I like that the same language compiles to native code and php and javascript with no changes
<shauno> is mono still a thing?
<diddledan> shauno: yeah
<popey> shauno: yeah, loads of games use it
<diddledan> shauno: go-mono.smth
<diddledan> .net?
<diddledan> aah, they moved: http://mono-project.com/
<shauno> hm.  it feels oddly abandoned on osx
<diddledan> the parent company spun out of the dying days of novell/suse have a commercial monoTouch and monoAndroid (now renamed after the company Xamarin)
<popey> used in unity3d for example on windows/osx/ios/android/wii/playstation/xbox/linux
<diddledan> that's at http://xamarin.com/
<diddledan> yeah unity3d relies on it extensively
<diddledan> aparently microsoft are a customer of xamarin?
<popey> unsurprising
<diddledan> why would microsoft need to buy tech that reimplements something they invented?
<popey> they didnt implement it on xbox did they?
<popey> or windows phone?
<shauno> hm, I wonder if I can figure out what version of mono that uses
<diddledan> why do I have tom jones singing it's not unusual in my head right now?
<diddledan> oh god, and now I've just gone onto visuals of carlton (fresh prince) dancing
<diddledan> I'm a sick sick son of a.
<shauno> ooh, monodoc actually runs.  so maybe it's not completely broken
<mapps> hm
<mapps> think il watch one of the narnia films tonight
<mapps> ;]
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-01
<directhex> the mandatory spy cam/mic on the xbox one is funny. change your gamertag to an actual xbox command, so when people angrily shout your name in multiplayer, it drops them from their game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvBwezmeW1M&feature=youtu.be
<daftykins> diddledan: XD is this what it's like for you before you fall asleep?
<daftykins> diddledan: dun... da-dun... dun... da-dun...
<daftykins> directhex: it's not mandatory though
<directhex> daftykins, they backed down on that? wusses
<daftykins> indeedy
<daftykins> directhex: excellent find though ^_^
<diddledan> hooray, I fixed it
<diddledan> ya'll can't see my fix 'cos it's not live but trust me when I say it was a doozey
<mapps> hoorah
<foobarry> "Henlow car dealership attacked by Tesco deer head man" :-|
<foobarry> stroy was less exciting than i thought it might be
<foobarry> directhex: lol i enjoyed that. although some of the kids sounded about 7yrs old ..bit young for that game!
<foobarry> i'd probably never go out again if i had games like that as a teenager
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<nigelb> Hello brobostigon.
<brobostigon> morning nigelb
<foobarry> mornings
<brobostigon> morning foobarry
 * foobarry supervising a wii playing session
<nigelb> How's it going?
<brobostigon> trying to work out how minecraft servers update between versions, and you nigelb ?
<nigelb> playing with awesome window manager, liking it so far.
<brobostigon> :)
<bashrc> attempting to move my site from mediawiki to docuwiki
<brobostigon> :)
<ali1234> brobostigon: the short answer is they don't
<bashrc> I got stung br a crashed mysql database, so am hoping that going to flat files will avoid that problem in future
<brobostigon> ali1234: so you have to manually update by some method?
<ali1234> yes, download the new server and run it, and then notice none of your mods work any more and the map is totally corrupted
<brobostigon> oh great
<ali1234> basically you don't update the server across major versions, you start over
<brobostigon> thats disapointing
<ali1234> of you have things you want to keep the best way is to transplant them into the new map with mcedit
<brobostigon> let me look up that tool.
<ali1234> popey: do you have the old bitfolk maps?
<daubers> Morning
<brobostigon> morning daubers
<daubers> Just bought a video camera that I can control through my nexus 7
<daubers> how awesome is that??
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> linkie please, :)
<daubers> http://camcorder.tech-details.com/JVC_Everio_GZ-EX315/
<daubers> Can't find a better link
<brobostigon> thank you.
<daubers> Just bought it from an actual real life shop
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> looks interesting,
<MartijnVdS> daubers: shiny
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Have you seen the Canon 6D? It's app-controllable as well
 * brobostigon looks up that one also.
<brobostigon> eos 6d ?
<MartijnVdS> brobostigon: yes
<MartijnVdS> much expensive, very GPS. wow ;)
<brobostigon> looks interesting also.
<daubers> MartijnVdS: No... but sounds fun :)
<brobostigon> #sadmanonatrain on bbc2
<daubers> MartijnVdS: This camera can get the GPS location from the android device controlling it :)
<MartijnVdS> daubers: Cool :)
<foobarry> son is happy. mandatory mention of angry birds on click
<foobarry> facebook! mummy  loves facebook!
<brobostigon> :)
<foobarry> finished our house together
<foobarry> http://i.imgur.com/6tzNmos.jpg
<mapps> hmn
<mapps> well thats a dissapointment
<mapps> thought my gas and electric would be less this month
<mapps> what is that foobarry
<penguin42> if I put my Virgin cable modem into modem-mode can it be switched back - and how? Will it still respond to the 192.168.0.1 address for management?
<mapps> brrr
<mapps> its cold outside
<mapps> modem mode?
<penguin42> mapps: Yeh where it won't do any NATing or firewalling, it'll just get out of the ^&*(^*& way
<mapps> ah
<mapps> didnt know you could do tha
<penguin42> apparently so - it seems to do evil things to SIP - it's trying to NAT it but failing very very badly
<foobarry> mapps: its a house made from plaster moulds
<foobarry> you pour plaster into moulds like these http://www.linkaworld.com/catalog.htm
<foobarry> our next project is a castle.
<foobarry> lego is too mainstream :)
<mapps> hhh ok
<mapps> is this for your kids?
<foobarry> daddy and son time together
<mapps> ;]
<brobostigon> not maccano?
<foobarry> taken a while to get round to painting it
<foobarry> maybe when he's older he can try meccano
<brobostigon> :)
<directhex> SIP isn't really NATtable
<directhex> the source/destination IP are part of the SIP data packets
<directhex> you may need a STUN or TURN proxy server configured
<directhex> or you need a router which can rewrite SIP packets
<penguin42> directhex: Yeh and I don't fully understand it; Linux has a conntrack module for it;  in this case it looks like the VM router is screwing up the rewriting
<directhex> penguin42, the conntrack module must be running on the router
<penguin42> directhex: Yep, it is - my problem is that the VM box is in the way and is screwing it up - hence why I want to put it into modem mode
<diddledan> mornin
<penguin42> hey DD
<DJones> Mornin? Evening more like it
<daftykins> DJones: not with the hours diddledan keeps, lying awake at night with Tom Jones in his head ;)
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> it's the weekend
<diddledan> I'm allowed to sleep all day on saturday :-D
<DJones> Sleep in? Its nearly Sunday :)
<diddledan> oh joy. fsf mailing - "the widely accepted(really?) failure of Windows 8 provides a critical moment for the free software movement." <-- what about the more widely accepted failure of vista when that happened?!
<diddledan> I need chocolate
<diddledan> (need is most definitely the appropriate term here!)
<shauno> same falacy as last time.  if win8 doesn't meet expectations, people just stick to win7.  it's not actually a jump-ship situation
<diddledan> this is interesting, however: https://fsfe.org/news/2014/news-20140116-01.en.html
<diddledan> shauno: exactly my point
<Myrtti> I need food, maybe ordering in a blue cheese-shrimp-pineapple-salami pizza...
<diddledan> I think the rate of people leaving windows for linux and others will be unchanged
<daftykins> wow, supermarket survey shows food is 60% cheaper in England at the very budget end versus the channel islands
<daftykins> Â¬_Â¬
<diddledan> daftykins: that sucks for you
<daftykins> in fairness i never buy own-brand stuff
<daftykins> i'm a sucker for the brands :(
 * penguin42 sometimes does
<penguin42> daftykins: Lidl do very good cheap chocolate :-)
<daftykins> hehe, they're not over here
<daftykins> i'd only heard of them for the first time when i was in Portsmouth
<daftykins> i swear every time i stepped into that shop i felt like i'd somehow teleported to Poland or something
<diddledan> I think you hit the nail on the head there. that's exactly what they do.
<daftykins> but even the people!
<daftykins> must be immigrants popping in to buy their home produce i guess
<daftykins> and yeah i did used to buy some funky chocolate in there, it was ace
<foobarry> u1 file sync broken for anyone else?
<foobarry> was on my work pc yesterday, also on my home pc today
<SuperEngineer> foobarry: ok here
<foobarry> UnauthorizedError
<foobarry> u'Host requires authentication'
<foobarry> u'OAuth required (mandatory).'
<foobarry> weird
<foobarry> disconnect and reconnt a few times on the GUI (not hte command line)
<foobarry> now it opened a chrome window to auth
<foobarry> works now
<SuperEngineer> what about removing them from devices list and then do the "add this device" bit?
<foobarry> looks like it broke a while ago
<SuperEngineer> :)
<penguin42> hmm this is apparently working - but I don't quite understand how
<penguin42> I don't apparently have an IP address on the port going to the router, but I still seem to be routing down it
<daftykins> 0o
<SuperEngineer> I am neither an impulse buyer  or a gambler - last night I became both. Been thinking of upgrading pooter for a while & suddenly I went for it!
<SuperEngineer> ...The brain just went "go for it, upgrade this ol' machine" so I got on ebuyer and ordered 4xRAM without checking m'board could address it
<SuperEngineer> ...then it went "what about the gpu?", so I ordered 1 of those as well!
<SuperEngineer> hmm: m'board currently holding 4x.5GB DDR2 RAM, soon to be holding 4x1GB DDR2 RAM.. & psu currently power nvidia GeForde 210 (512MB) about to power an nvidia GTX650 (2GB) and massive fan.... hope psu can deal ok
<penguin42> probably - what size is it ?
<SuperEngineer> So now I am both an impulse shopper & a gambler.  Help me somebody!
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: what size is what?
<penguin42> the PSU
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: that's why I've become a gambler - I didn't check [ouch!]
<penguin42> ah, and you've still not checked :-)
<SuperEngineer> pooter is a Dell Dimension E520 [+extra disk & my previous gpu upgrae]
<SuperEngineer> *upgrade
<penguin42> difficult to know - Dells tend to use weird PSUs - not necessarily easy to change; but anyway - I'd suggest put the RAM in and get it happy, and only once that's happy go for the graphics card
<SuperEngineer> [I am working on the theory that psu this old & of Delll origin was built to "work", but at what power output...  I have never checked
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: that choice already taken ;)  I ordered the RAM so it would arrive 1 or 2 days prior to GPU
<SuperEngineer> ...& thus force *some* sensibility back into the equation!
<penguin42> hehe
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: You've not get any use for some quad port PCI-x cards I gambled on and lost do you.....
<diddledan> lol, that's good shopping skills, SuperEngineer
<diddledan> who cares whether it works, it's shiny! :-p
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: I'm on PCIe - but I'll ask around
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Nah don't worry about it
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: mmmm.... shiny new anti-static bags - yum yum
<diddledan> :-D
<diddledan> and the nice "new" smell
<diddledan> I love that smell
<penguin42> In amazon warehouses computer accessories section: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pritt-Compact-Correction-Roller-4-2mmx8-5m/dp/B000J6FEXI/ref=sr_1_26?m=A2OAJ7377F756P&s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1391284106&sr=1-26
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: as long as the nice "new" smell doesn't become horrible "new" psu popping smell
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I've not seen a PSU go from bad treatment, they just tend to do it out of spite
<diddledan> lol, the smell of burning  psu.. mmmmm
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: agreed - I called to a quite a few "spiteful" server psu fails -always during trading hours
<SuperEngineer> [! firm I could mention use a 2 psu bay server with deliberately no 2nd/backup psu!] - they fail, I laugh ;)
<penguin42> sometimes you do get the 2 bay stuff thrown in on certain models even when you just want a fast machine
<SuperEngineer> [last one I got store up & running again by emptying a whole can of air duster over the server to cool it enough until replacement arrived.... did I giggle!
<penguin42> ah, you're a service drone?
<SuperEngineer> nah, I'm an ATM drone & pooter drone - forced into looking after retail contracts as well :(
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: I once got really confused by a manager who had used some TCP disinfectant on a cut - I was convinced there was a smouldering PSU somewhere
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: lol
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: i'd be surprised if a Dell PSU would even have the PCI express graphics card power connectors you'll need for that new one
<SuperEngineer> ...talking about retail... you'd be pleasantly surprised by the number of retail groups who use Linux
<penguin42> daftykins: Hey hey - let SE have the full run of the bet - it's like the lottery, you have to have a few hopeful days before the let down of trying to fit it
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: I was thinking the same - but even enlarging photo on ebuyer there was nowt my m'board didn't [appear] to have
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: The USB+power hubs you sometimes see at retail seems to be interesting
 * SuperEngineer has fingers tightly crossed
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: so does the amount of dust blocked kit in all their server racks
<penguin42> haha, never been the scenes at retail
<SuperEngineer> you're the lucky one
<daftykins> penguin42: aww but that would give him the sads!
<penguin42> although I do worry about our local Tesco which had half of the self-serves out of service possibly because their power was going off in time with half the lights
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: but trying to fit it is half the fun! a mallet, some crocodile clips, a prayer...
<SuperEngineer> [that was re yours to daf]
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Well I nearly took a hacksaw to these PCI-x cards - they have a 'minor' voltage compatibility issue - they have the tab filled forcing them only to go in 3.3v slots
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: sssh.... don't tell but I called to a [not Tesco] store for 2 self checkouts that had blown up at the same time
 * penguin42 generally is used to the NCR Fastlane ones - especially the Tesco ones - I can use them very quickly
<SuperEngineer> ...turned out one had a 2 litre bottle of water break open into it - the other, well I found the switch cabinet in the store &  reset the breaker - lol
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Do you just do the computer side or do you have to deal with the mech stuff as well?
<penguin42> the coin systems on the Siemens machines in Morrisons are a piece of art - a slow piece of art, but wacky
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: unfortunately I do both... that's part of the reason for my handle!
<penguin42> ok, so you do need the hammer
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: ...a few customers gave me the name yonks ago
<penguin42> haha
<andylockran> hey guys
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> SuperEngineer: your work sounds pretty cool, nice and varied
<andylockran> can anyone help me work out why my Ubuntu SMB server is connectable from windows 8.1. via \\media\public - but that the computer 'media' doesn't show up in Network?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: I find a hammer the most gratifying of my whole tool kit - especially when it's not needed, I use it to threaten the kit
<SuperEngineer> daftykins: thank you
<daftykins> andylockran: samba has a setting to hide it from casual browsing, what does your smb.conf look like?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: [also grabbed one once when working on the outside of an ATM -idiot backed down after that]
<penguin42> haha
<andylockran> //paste.ubuntu.com/6857248/
<andylockran> daftykins: ^^
<daftykins> andylockran: hrmm it already has browseable = yes there
<daftykins> (line 281)
<andylockran> yeah - I can navigate to it directly
<daftykins> andylockran: is the windows 8 machine using a homegroup instead of a workgroup?
<andylockran> it just doesn't show up in the 'Network Neighbourhood"
<andylockran> daftykins: not sure what a homegroup is
<andylockran> ah, it's not got a homegroup setup
<andylockran> just checked
<daftykins> it's a crazy windows 7 and up thing
<daftykins> is it seeing any other devices and shares on the network? it could be set to a public network instead of home/work
<daftykins> or just have network discovery disabled in advanced sharing
<andylockran> yeah, it's seeing another windows computer
<daftykins> andylockran: ah, line 45 is commented out for enabling WINS - that might help
<daftykins> i think i'm grasping at straws there without a full understanding
<andylockran> ah, ok
<daftykins> but i'm pretty sure there was something about some old Windows tech that helped being on for browseability :D
<shauno> wins shouldn't matter if he can already reach it as \\media\public\; wins is usually where to look if you can reach \\IP\ but not \\name\
 * penguin42 would wonder about broadcast/multicast stuff?
<SuperEngineer> penguin42: just seen your comment re M's coin machines... we had that contract till undercut recently - I was sooo glad to we lost it I couldn't stop smiling the whole day
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: the little conveyor belt ones? They're insane - I mean cute, but slow as hell, whether they work well I can't really say, but why the heck did they do something so different?
<SuperEngineer> if only you knew the full horror story behinfd their SCO's [& no - I can't say more]
<daftykins> shauno: ah just hostname gubbins, that's the one
 * penguin42 scratches his head - hth does that happen - when I watch that IP camera on a different subnet my router loses the connection to my other subnet - i.e. loses it from it's arp cache
<shauno> daftykins: that's the only one I can remember, because NS is a nice hint :)
<daftykins> hehe
<diddledan> why are nas units so spensive compared to the hp microserver?
<daftykins> that's true
<diddledan> http://www.ebuyer.com/430446-hp-proliant-g7-n54l-2-2ghz-microserver-ebuyer-704941-421
<daftykins> i don't know but i'm really impressed by Synology ones
<diddledan> I think I'd prefer to do it with the hp, 'cos then i can tinker :-p
<daftykins> yeah depends how open an appliance one is that you could buy i guess really
<Azelphur> hey folks, bit of politics for you, I'm trying to decode the first paragraph of ... crap ... from my local MP http://www.rogergale.com/content_manager/page.php?ID=104153&dbc=81bdcfb87a93bfd675ea24ff6770d745
<Azelphur> he says he "proscribed" a TV channel, proscribe meaning to forbid, usually by law...but that TV channel still exists and is still broadcasting
<Azelphur> so...I have the confused
<daftykins> perhaps he's a doctor of entertainment and meant he prescribed it? ;)
<Azelphur> god alone knows, by the article he could well be that silly ;)
<shauno> really.  that's so silly that I can't figure out if it's real or satire.  I'm pretty sure there's a name for that
<Azelphur> shauno: yea, I'm thinking of emailing him and just putting him right on a few points
<Azelphur> but I get to the first paragraph and it's just so stupid it makes no sense
<shauno> ah, there we go; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
<daftykins> wow that really was a funky post
<Azelphur> daftykins: that's my MP
<Azelphur> >.<
<daftykins> sorry :<
<andylockran> heya daftykins - the silly software i was using allowed me to be able to type in the ip
<andylockran> therefore I can ignore the smb share not showing in network
<daftykins> your country is going pretty odd with neutrality of late (the lack of)
<daftykins> andylockran: ah neat :)
<Azelphur> daftykins: indeed it is, hense the desire to check it out and fire off grumpymail
<Azelphur> I'm pretty annoyed that they have started blocking things such as childline and crisis centres.
<shauno> and jquery :|
<Azelphur> More disgusted than annoyed, really
<Azelphur> yea, and jquery, and imgur, and wikipedia
<shauno> I mean, it was an accident, and it was reverted; but it's a great example of how stupid these automated filters are
<daftykins> i haven't read into this, is it not true that you can opt out of all these things?
<Azelphur> daftykins: you can opt out of /some/ of it
<Azelphur> and tbh, given the above examples, the people who need access to that content the most, are the most likely to be unable to access it
<daftykins> what a terrible irony
<diddledan> you can "opt out" by telling the government that you're a pervert
<shauno> I don't think it's that extreme.  I'm not a parent; ergo I don't require a parental filter
<diddledan> this whole censorship is quite frankly pretty scary stuff that the government seem intent on pushing us to becoming china
<diddledan> shauno: you have to tell them that you're not a parent by clicking the "perverts button" though
<Azelphur> diddledan: indeed, how long before they expand upon this, requiring you to list your political views, porn preferences, etc in order to have them unblocked.
<daftykins> i've seen the privacy guy Alex Hanff on freenode before, he's probably well up on this stuff - Azelphur you heard of him at all?
<Azelphur> daftykins: I haven't
<Azelphur> diddledan: for me I had to do it over the phone, and it wasn't the most pleasant of experiences
<diddledan> shauno: the point is that it's default to block large swathes of the internet. this is badâ¢
<Azelphur> I got the whole "Are you sure?" etc banter
<daftykins> http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&sqi=2&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.alexanderhanff.com%2F&ei=3GLtUqDnN5KA7Qa0iYHYDg&usg=AFQjCNFYd3kkTwG_1vx-6F9osQal3QoQsg&bvm=bv.60444564,d.ZG4
<ali1234> yeah you have. he's paladine
<daftykins> oh pants
<daftykins> i really hate google links now
<Azelphur> ali1234: ah, paladine, yea I've seen him
<daftykins> http://www.alexanderhanff.com/
<shauno> if I had to call them, I'd make sure it was more it was more awkward for them.
<diddledan> Azelphur: that's not fun
<Azelphur> shauno: that's pretty much what I did, I told them I didn't want them filtering my connection :)
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, had to do it multiple times too, for both my ISPs and my mobile
<shauno> I'm thinking more of "and midgets?  make sure you unblock the midgets too"
<daftykins> erk!
<daftykins> shauno: lol nice
<bashrc> unblock the midgets?
<ali1234> all you have to do is get a business account which you should anyway
<Azelphur> diddledan: vodafone was incredibly bad, I had bought a dongle as I was going on holiday, but when I went to use it it was heavily restricted (youtube, etc were blocked) and they demanded a credit card to unblock everything, which I didn't have at the time
<ali1234> they won't filter those
<shauno> I'm quite glad there's no filtering here.  other than the court-mandated tpb block :/
<diddledan> what? why do they need a credit card to remove a filter?!
<ali1234> my ISP doesnt even block tpb
<bashrc> sounds like blackmail
<Azelphur> diddledan: as proof of age, but yea it's pretty awful
<Azelphur> diddledan: the other option they gave me was to travel 70 miles to the nearest vodafone store
<diddledan> and little tommy isn't able to borrow daddy's?
<Azelphur> I took it back and got very grumpy with them when I returned from holiday
<ali1234> the reason they require a credit card is because any kid can buy a payg sim
<diddledan> I know as a child I could quite easily get ahold of my dad's credit card
<diddledan> without him knowing*
<ali1234> they put a charge and refund on it
<Azelphur> diddledan: indeed, me too
<ali1234> so if he read the statement he would know
<Azelphur> that's interesting, I found out about that TV channel a little more
<Azelphur> apparently, it was banned in 1993...but how on earth did they ban it in the UK if it was broadcasting from a different country?
<diddledan> aparently tesco brought it back to our shores in 2011 in the form of a cheese
<diddledan> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2068023/Scotch-Bonnet-Cheddar-Tesco-launches-UKs-hottest-cheese-50-times-spicier-jalapeno.html
<diddledan> oh maybe not
<diddledan> the reference is in the comments
<Azelphur> xD
<diddledan> about morrisons
<Azelphur> Heritage Secretary Peter Brooke announced in a commons written reply that in 15 days it will be a criminal offence to sell subscriptions to, or equipment to recieve, Red Hot Television, partly because of the danger to children.
<Azelphur> aha
<ali1234> right, it's encrypted
<Azelphur> I see, so by stopping the subs, since it's pay-per-view, they essentially banned it
<Azelphur> but they didn't ban LNBs
<ali1234> ironically the porn channels on freeview aren't encrypted at all and require no special hardware to receive
<Azelphur> indeed, I'm aware
<Azelphur> I plan on mentioning it
<diddledan> the porn channels on freeview aren't porn tho
<ali1234> yeah there's that
<Azelphur> xD
<diddledan> they're just a woman in undies making suggestive motions and picking up a telephone handset every so often
<diddledan> or a bloke in the case of the gay ones
<diddledan> seen the dave rip-off?
<Azelphur> indeed
<directhex> yeah, ALL DVB-T equipment can view Red Hot
<directhex> and only stuff with a full MHEG stack can stop you watching it for free
<directhex> they actually make DVDs with the same strategy, as free samplers in adult stores - "phone the number to get the unlock code". all the MPEG2 streams unencrypted...
<Azelphur> directhex: it seems that "Red Hot TV" and "Red Hot Dutch" are different entities
<shauno> reminds me, I should check to see if there's any update on the TD who wants to ban 'open source browsers' :|
 * SuperEngineer ponders meaning of "family friendly" - has it passed watershed yet
<diddledan> it's 21:30 in the UK but. even though we're called #ubuntu-uk I think we get foreigners too, so technically it's always pre and post watershed
<SuperEngineer> exactly
<SuperEngineer> ;)
<diddledan> I think david cameron needs to censor american internet, too
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: I don't see it as not family friendly, censorship is bad :(
<Azelphur> discussing law shouldn't be family unfriendly :p
<diddledan> Azelphur: but. the children.
<SuperEngineer> agreed 100% - but advertising porn channels = not so agreed
<diddledan> is it advertising when they're in the EPG?
<ali1234> Azelphur: what can you tell me about minecraft forge?
<Azelphur> SuperEngineer: we aren't advertising, we're mentioning. By the same Logic we should also disallow links to Roger Gale MP's blog as family friendly, as it's also mentioned there
<diddledan> not many freeview tuners have the option to hide them afaict
<SuperEngineer> diddledan: the EPG never claimed to be family friendly - UUK is
<Azelphur> ali1234: it's a minecraft modding API
<ali1234> how can they have a preview release for 1.7 when there is no MCP for 1.7 yet?
<Azelphur> ali1234: no idea, if you were on my IRC channel I'd point you at Alex, he'd probably know
<SuperEngineer> Azelphur: saw some "mentions" on TV tonight - for news papers, dog foods, cosmetics - they were in the ad breaks ;)
<Azelphur> hehe
 * SuperEngineer shouldn't - but does seriously recomment @YourAnonNews on twitter for the real news
<SuperEngineer> *recommend
<Azelphur> :)
<bigcalm> Good evening peeps :)
<diddledan> my favourite moron strikes at WordPress again! http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2014/Feb/0 <-- apparently .htaccess can be bypassed by not running apache. who knew?
<diddledan> this guy often (and I mean very often) states that developers "refused" to fix things he tells them about or in the case of WordPress core he likes "hiddenly fixed"
<diddledan> e.g. http://seclists.org/fulldisclosure/2013/Dec/41
<map|work> vening
<map|work> *evening
#ubuntu-uk 2014-02-02
<popey> Greetings from the colonies!
<shauno> which colony?  and are they behaving?
<popey> Amusingly in the bus on the way to the hotel, the american woman next to me was reading news of mr Bieber, on the daily mail online
<diddledan> damned daily mail readers get everywhere
<shauno> yeah.  my mother's latest husband keeps linking to DM articles.  it seems quite popular
<penguin42> how many is she on?
<shauno> it's quite difficult to explain to them that it's not a real newspaper
<diddledan> (my parents are DM readers, too)
<shauno> I think this is the 4th
<diddledan> it comes to something when you can't remember how many husbands your mum has had :-p
 * penguin42 was thinking about whether to say that :-)
<diddledan> heh, shauno knows I insult him at every opportunity
<diddledan> he does the same in reciprocity so it's all good :-p
<diddledan> ooh that's a clever word for quarter past midnight
<popey> Saw a hotel called Gaylord Palms
<popey> and my first thought was "Does he?"
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that's proper technique for you
<diddledan> family friendly
<diddledan> I think that just went out the window:-p
<map|work> popey in america?
<penguin421> map|work: He's gone to feed the alligators
<map|work> ;]
<map|work> i just figured by the hotel he mentioned
<foobarry> mornings
<diddledan> morning
<MartijnVdS> \o
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> good morning boys and girls.
<ali1234> well that's a new one... phishing emails in finnish
<Laney> phinnish
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> afternoonings knightwise
<popey> morning
<mapps> afternoon
<popey> haha it's groundhog day
<popey> watching them do the thing with phil the groundhog on telly
<mapps> phil the groundhog|?
<popey> yes
<popey> he predicted 6 more weeks of winter
<brobostigon> he didnt predict it,
<brobostigon> it was the man judging the animal.
<popey> NO WAY!
<foobarry> strange...it isnt raining yet today
<popey> foggy here
<brobostigon> semi-cloudy here.
<penguin42> yeh bits of blue sky in Manc
<popey> 28 degrees today apparently
<brobostigon> fahtenheir or celcius?
<popey> 77 f
<brobostigon> fahtenheit or celcius?
<brobostigon> scorching
<popey> 84 on monday
<popey> i should have brought some shorts
<popey> might pop out today and buy some
<mapps> not sure whether to go out to watch the superbowl or not
<foobarry> can'[t think of much worse
<foobarry> maybe watching splash.
<mapps> lol
<mapps> my friend loves the nfl..i somtimes watch it at work
<foobarry> american football/sport reminds me of dramas on ITV. they don't make it for the story or the love of it, just for advertising revenue.
<foobarry> similarly american football seems to be designed around eyeballs on the tv and ad breaks
<mapps> probably endup going out and just getting drunk and going to the strip club
<foobarry> stag do?
<mapps> na
<mapps> just there's a strip club near the casino
<mapps> so sometimes go there before going to the casino after a night out
<popey> well
<popey> i do want to go and see the superb owl somewhere
<popey> because lots of my co-workers are here, and I'ld
<popey> bah
<mapps> heh
<popey> I'd like to have beer and wings â»
<mapps> hooters!
<foobarry>  i read an interview with a woman saying that most strippers were lesbian and didn't  like men
<mapps> probably true
<mapps> some of them arent even nice at ST1
<foobarry> although they were turned that way from their experiences with men
<mapps> there's 1 american that's really hot..dunno why shes here..seems odd
<foobarry> not my opinion, just the quotes
<popey> riiiigght
<popey> never been in a hooters, never really seen the appeal
<foobarry> i don't know what it is. single mums in tshirts and low self esteem?
<mapps> i went to Hooters Praha - it was ok..the girls are nice..but the steak i had was garbage
<mapps> they didnt even ask me how i wanted it cooked?!
<foobarry> can't imagine the food is great, for obvious reasons
<foobarry> hey i'm a great chef and great menu, instead of high class resto, i'll go to some out of town dive
<mapps> hard rock cafe was better but way ore expensive
<mapps> lol
<foobarry> i bet more nachos are sold/consumed on superbowl day than any other
<mapps> dont think ive ever had nachos
<foobarry> "Not Another Completely Heuristic Operating System, or Nachos, is instructional software for teaching undergraduate, and potentially graduate level operating systems course"
<foobarry> or doritos without flavour
<foobarry> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Ubuntu-to-Drop-Nautilus-Soon-and-Replace-It-with-Their-Own-File-Manager-423015.shtml
<popey> haha
<popey> wondered how long that would take
<popey> "soon"
<popey> is a year soon?
<Laney> seriously
<Laney> I'm wondering whether to reply to that thread
<Laney> ogra ...
<ali1234> it's funny that they claim it's because of missing features in nautilus
<ali1234> when in fact the ubuntu file manager is likely to have even less features
<popey> s/less/fewer/
<Laney> helpful
<foobarry> it will be qt based, right?
<foobarry> so why not use dolphin base?
<ali1234> because it has to have convergence
<foobarry> so start all from scratch?
<ali1234> yes
<foobarry> canonical have been ripping  things up every 2 years
<popey> i dont think it's quite as cut and dried and decided as the email implies
<ali1234> convergence = design for touch, then make it run in a window on desktop
<ali1234> i haven't read any email
<ali1234> i just read the discussions about it on #ubuntu-desktop the past week
<foobarry> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-desktop/2014-January/004414.html
<popey> and i dont think it's certain we would switch to unity8 in 14.10
<ali1234> unity 8 will keep getting pushed back, i'll be amazed if it's ready for 16.04 frankly
<Laney> nothing is certain imho
<popey> indeed
<Laney> especially not chucking everything and replacing it with worse stuff
<popey> +1
<ali1234> that's already happened
<Laney> everything?
<ali1234> why wouldn't it happen again?
<ali1234> yes, everything
<Laney> right, I'm done
<ali1234> see gnome, unity, compiz 0.9
<ali1234> see also gedit HEAD, lol
<ali1234> i don't think i'm using anything from ubuntu-desktop any more
<ali1234> it went from the best desktop to the second worst in two years
<ali1234> good job everyone
<foobarry> worst being gnome3?
<ali1234> right
<foobarry> that was pretty spectacular too
<popey> â shower â breakfast
<ali1234> gnome seems to be actively trying to piss off their users, while ubuntu-desktop seems to be merely incompetent
<foobarry> is this a "legal" marble in the school playground sense? its massive http://ubuntuone.com/2BAPG5fAJYOWAnteMrvZqs
<foobarry> much bigger than a 64 or a 256er
<foobarry> playground marbles seems to be an oral tradition rather than any rules written anywhere on the net
<MartijnVdS> foobarry: yes, different rules for different schools 8-)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> afternoodlings bigcalm
<daftykin1> after noodlings sounds great :D
<daftykin1> mmm noodles in dark soy sauce
<brobostigon> :)
<daftykin1> how's brobostigon this fine day? any poor weather up your way this weekend?
<brobostigon> light cloud cover, that it. not bad overall, and you?
<daftykin1> seems the sun is out O_O
<brobostigon> :)
<popey> full of brekkie
<daftykin1> popey: fry up? ;)
<penguin42> and what is that
<popey> bacon
<brobostigon> nomnom,
<hamitron> oh don't :/
<brobostigon> oh do, :)
<hamitron> got in far too late last night, eaten loads today and still feel.... unbalanced
<hamitron> :/
<daftykin1> hair o' the dog!
<hamitron> :-o
<hamitron> I don't think I'm going to do an intense workout again, before a 10 hour drinking session
<hamitron> just don't think it mixes well
<brobostigon> oh dear,
<daftykin1> lol
<hamitron> it has to be the exercise ofc
<hamitron> ;/
<brobostigon> self-inflicted hangover,
<daftykin1> were you not knackered when commencing drinking?
<hamitron> the cause of all this pain
<daftykin1> hamitron: or are you calling the pint lifting the intense workout? ;)
<brobostigon> lol
<hamitron> daftykin1, it demonstated how my strength was improving..... getting easier as I progressed
<daftykin1> ooh didn't even notice my nick
<hamitron> tbh, I just gotta accept I am now too old to roll in at 5:45am and not feel it
<brobostigon> once i passed 30, i got that feeling aswell.
<hamitron> yeh, about my age
<hamitron> :)
<daftykins> i'm hitting 29 this month ;/
<brobostigon> ones body is too old to cope with it.
<hamitron> daftykins, enjoy the next year, all downhill from then on
<daftykins> places shut by 2am on Guernsey though
<daftykins> hamitron: i've been told the downhill line since 22 i think ;)
<hamitron> lies!
<daftykins> memory issues are really beginning to bug me though
<hamitron> I think next weekend I'm gonna give myself a 3 hour break between the workout and drinking session
<daftykins> sometimes i have pauses mid-sentence to remember what i was talking about =|
<hamitron> :/
<hamitron> I can't tackle logical problems like I used to
<brobostigon> and then get home at 8:45
<hamitron> but that is maybe just lack of practise
<brobostigon> am*
<brobostigon> the matrix ch5 10:55pm :)
<ali1234> the description for that in my tv guide is funny
<ali1234> "keanu reeves fights rebels in a virtual world"
<brobostigon> oh dear
<daftykins> lmao
<daftykins> pesky rebels
<daftykins> die, rebel scum!
<daftykins> what's that from 0o
<ali1234> the daily mirror 7 day tv guide thing
<ali1234> Azelphur: ping
 * neuro cries a little bit into his keyboard
<neuro> emergency server migration :(
<neuro> brobostigon: the matrix? on channel 5? avoid
<neuro> it'll be pan and scan, filled with ads and potentially cut
<brobostigon> maybe, yes.
<awilkins> Doesn't everyone have it on DVD anyway?
<awilkins> I think it was in that first generation of DVD titles that you bought because you had a new DVD player and there weren't many films available for it
<neuro> it was like the second dvd i ever bought
<neuro> region 1
<awilkins> I think it was the first for me
<awilkins> When DVD was super-awesome
<neuro> yeah
<shauno> I thought pretty much everyone got it with the player
<neuro> you were like LOOK AT THE QUALITY
<ali1234> also the first film many people downloaded from the internet
<neuro> my first dvd player was a creative dvd-rom drive with mpeg2 playback card
<awilkins> Yeah, my first DVD player was a Panasonic slotloader
<neuro> root@hathaway:/data/cargobays/1/Video/Movies# ls -l The\ Matrix\ \(1999\).mkv
<neuro> -rw-r--r-- 1 neuro users 12897336691 Jul 16  2013 The Matrix (1999).mkv
<shauno> my first (And last) player was a pretty terrible, cheap-as-dirt no-name player from walmart; that'd also play vcd & divx <3
<awilkins> I have this one from my local computer parts warehouse retailer that has lasted 15 years
<awilkins> Regionless, obeys commands during the stupid unskippable trailers
<neuro> i then got a chipped pioneer dv-somethingorother (sold), then chipped dv-363 (unplugged), then a sony blu ray (sold)
<neuro> i don't think i've watched a blu ray disc in ages
<awilkins> I have a bluray drive
<neuro> definitely haven't put a dvd movie in a drive for years
<awilkins> I have one (1) title, Avatar
<neuro> i still have blu rays in the shrink wrap :)
<awilkins> Which mum bought me for Christmas on the premise that I must have a bluray because I was a techie kinda guy
<neuro> lol
<awilkins> The drive came after
<awilkins> I had to rip 30GB of data off it to play it on Linux
<awilkins> DVD is still just fine
<neuro> yeuch
<neuro> resolution too low
<neuro> DTS audio is rare
<awilkins> Hollywood has lost track of the fact that the plot and script are what matters
<neuro> and R2 discs are usually yucky 576p50 transfers
<awilkins> There are ancient films with terrible resolution that choke you up
<neuro> i'd still rather watch films in 1080p24 ta much :)
 * neuro watches migration data transfer progress and cries a little bit more
<neuro> 100G in 2.5 hrs
<neuro> 460G to go :P
<awilkins> Across what kind of bus?
<neuro> bus?
<awilkins> Channel for data ; commonly called a "bus" in computers]
<ali1234> gigabit?
<neuro> you are miscategorising the premise of the task
<awilkins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_(computing)
<neuro> server 1 -> dc infra -> server 2
<neuro> 100Mbps-ish
<ali1234> you're pushing 400Mbps, it's gigabit with other traffic
<neuro> um
<neuro> ok?
<neuro> i'm rsyncing data from one server to another
<awilkins> Hmm, is some of the data already on the other server
<neuro> nope
<neuro> well
<neuro> 100G is, now
<neuro> 104G, sorry
<neuro> stupid crappy kimsufi servers
<neuro> "oh lets put seagate drives in, they'll last forever"
<neuro> *facepalm*
<penguin42> neuro: Never underestimate the bandwidth of a hard disk in a Fedex ban
<penguin42> van
<neuro> penguin42: they're both in a dc in northern france, it will be quicker for me to rsync
<neuro> since i am not in northern france
<neuro> and ovh won't let me into the dc
<awilkins> Hire Jean Reno to break in and just pull the drive from one RAID array and shove it in the other
<ali1234> hmm my bad that's actually almost exactly 100mbit
<neuro> raid array, haha
<neuro> ali1234: yes
<ali1234> kinda sucks if they're in the same DC
<neuro> it's not an infra limitation
<neuro> server 1 is connected to a 100Mbps port
<neuro> server 2 is on GigE, rate limited to 200Mbps
<penguin42> you're compressing - right?
<neuro> nope
<penguin42> bzzzt - wrong answer
<neuro> bzzzt - wrong question
<neuro> the data is already compressed
<penguin42> oh
<neuro> :)
<penguin42> neuro: I hope you don't have bandwidth charges
<neuro> nope
<awilkins> IN THE SAME RACK?? That would be pretty harsh
<neuro> not in the same rack
<awilkins> Well, clearly not at 100Mbit/s
<neuro> and it's technically between two different "customers", because ovh are muppets
<awilkins> You'd think they would run some fibre between those bad boys though
<neuro> "let's create a new brand for our mid range servers, but make existing customers sign up again into a new customer database"
<neuro> awilkins: you're not getting it
<neuro> server 1 is physically restrained by the speed of the port it's connected to
<neuro> i'm maxing the port out
<awilkins> They in different dcs in Northern France
<awilkins> ?
<neuro> they're either in different DCs or they are in different data halls
<neuro> but it could be fibre in between or copper or wireless or whatever
<neuro> i can't copy anything faster than 100Mbps
<neuro> because server 1 can only connect at 100Mbps
<awilkins> Is it really old?
<neuro> no idea
<awilkins> Because I have gigabit right on my desktop motherboard
<neuro> dude
<penguin42> awilkins: Might be, or might be on 100Mbps switch port
<neuro> the server only does 100Mbps because it's plugged into a 100Mbps port because that's what OVH wanted to sell it at
<awilkins> Damn Frenchies
<neuro>         Supported link modes:   10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
<neuro>                                 100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
<neuro>                                 1000baseT/Full
<neuro>         Speed: 100Mb/s
<neuro>         Duplex: Full
<awilkins> Sounds like it's the card on the box that's limited to that
<neuro> argh
<awilkins> No it doesn#t
<awilkins> I#m tired
<neuro> *slap*
<awilkins> Clearly my finger can't reach my apostrophe cos it's so tired
<neuro> no excuses!
<neuro> anyway
<neuro> 110G
<neuro> :P
<neuro> tum te tum
<awilkins> Had a very long fortnight and a hectic weekend
<neuro> and in the meantime i'm trying to get the right packages and config sorted on server 2
<neuro> paaaaaaaaain in the buuuuuuum
<neuro> it's my own fault really
<neuro> i didn't document stuff
<neuro> and i can't get apache to fire up, which is equally annoying
<shauno> odd image manipulation question that I have no idea how to even describe; given a box where the edges aren't straight, something that can straighten them? preferably something scriptable?
<shauno> (top and bottom edges are always fine, left/right edges have 'wavy' deviations, not just a skewed container)
<penguin42> oh, hmm
<neuro> graphicsmagick maybe?
<penguin42> well it can do affine transforms - but shauno has a more wiggly box
<neuro> aaaaaaaaah
<neuro> ports.conf
 * neuro slaps apache2
<shauno> very wiggly boxes :/  my cleanest sample so far is http://lab.oneil.me.uk/hffax/wefax_20140202_165508_0_ok.png
<shauno> I can skew the whole thing happily enough, but I'd really like something that can catch the wobbles
<neuro> "Internal Server Error"
<neuro> yay
<neuro> "Warning: mysql_connect(): Access denied for user"
<neuro> yay, even better
<ali1234> shauno: you can code something up to fix that quite easily with scipy/numpy
<ali1234> are the lines always same length?
<shauno> they should be, but they're not
<ali1234> hmm
<ali1234> how you receiving that exactly?
<shauno> sdr+fldigi
<ali1234> have you got one with less edge cropping?
<ali1234> actually does it just wrap around?
<ali1234> the black/white pattern is sent once per line?
<shauno> I think that's my best yet.  but it should wrap, yeah
<shauno> the black/white pattern should mark the ends of the lines
<ali1234> you'll want to operate on the raw data
<ali1234> luckily this is how scipy wants to work anyway
<shauno> hm, looking to see if there's any other way I can export it.  fax is inherently analogue
<ali1234> scipy just wants the raw demodulated analogue waveform
<ali1234> lining up the lines with black blocks will be easy, not sure how you can do the others though
<shauno> okay, I'm dumping the next few to wav .. I'll pick the cleanest and then I guess try to learn python :)
<ali1234> python is the easy part :)
<shauno> I can't seem to find any documentation of how long the line should be
<ali1234> so what you need to do is cross-correlate the white-black pattern then take maximums. that's where the lines start/end
<ali1234> you can probably do that with only numpy
<ali1234> since it's 1d
<penguin42> haha oh yeh wefax
<ali1234> well half of them anyway
<ali1234> the rest, just guess :)
<shauno> hm, there doesn't seem to be an actual line length; that's why it's not written as such
<shauno> a line is 1/2second.  what I do with it is apparently my problem
<penguin42> shauno: I thought the idea is that you run some type of phase lock to the big black blob on the left ?
<ali1234> right
<ali1234> there probably isn;t even horizontal pixels
<ali1234> just a continuous signal
<penguin42> nod
<penguin42> just a brightness sensor wired to the signal
<penguin42> and a hopefully vaguely fixed rate spinning drum
<ali1234> analogue TV is the same. except it has a proper sync signal on every line
<ali1234> maybe this thing does too but it's not visible in the processed output
<shauno> it doesn't seem to, it's just fsk .. so one frequency means black, the other means white
<Azelphur> hey folks, I'm doing program > file 2>&1, the stuff shows up in file, but only after I close the program
<Azelphur> which...is annoying
<neuro> yay, server up and running, just need to wait for data copy to complete now
<penguin42> Azelphur: Is the stuff mostly coming out of stderr or stdout?
<Azelphur> think it's mostly stdout, python print :)
<ali1234> also unless your receiver is dropping usb packets i don't see how it can even go out of sync...
<neuro> i like it when web based things that have package dependencies have a page that says "oh, this is missing, installify it please"
<penguin42> Azelphur: Generally stdout is buffered when it thinks it's writing to a file
<Azelphur> that's annoying :/
<ali1234> Azelphur: use f.write()/f.flush() - it still probably won't help much though
<Azelphur> f?
<ali1234> sys.stdout.write() that is
<Azelphur> ah
<shauno> right; as long as both I and the sender agree on lines-per-minute, this wobble shouldn't happen
<ali1234> the buffer is in the pipe
<penguin42> yeh, you should be able to change the output buffering mode
<Azelphur> ali1234: there we go, calling sys.stdout.flush() seems to solve it, ty :)
<ali1234> Azelphur: i want you to make a website for minecraft seeds
<Azelphur> oh?
<ali1234> i know there's loads already but they only have like 10 seeds each
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> i spent this moring writing a seed -> map.png batch python script
<penguin42> Azelphur: If you can find the equivalent of setbuf it's probably a good idea
<ali1234> it can generate about 100 maps per hour
<Azelphur> ali1234: fancy
<ali1234> 1000 x 1000 blocks. bigger is slower of course
<shauno> is it firing up the server to generate the map?  curious how you'd make them larger
<ali1234> yeah
<ali1234> it runs the server to generate the spawn point, then stop it and moves the spawn
<Azelphur> it's interesting, right now I'm mostly doing company stuff, could get something going with bootstrap though :)
<ali1234> so it needs to have user voting because the seeds are random
<shauno> I have a script that keeps starting/stopping the server and editing the spawn point, but it gets slow quickly
<ali1234> shauno: yeah i got one too but it has no batch mode and you have to set up the server yourself
<ali1234> this creates the server config and runs it for you
<shauno> okay, I have to go buy some food before I forget.  then I'm going to sit down with this thing and see if I can figure out the logic at least
<neuro> well, crap
<neuro> philip seymour hoffman has been found dead, apparently
<neuro> (the actor)
<daftykins> oh him :(
 * penguin42 looks on imdb
<penguin42> hmm - the guy from Mi3 that got replaced with a matching mask?
<daftykins> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304626804579358943360702878
<daftykins> he was the butler in The Big Lebowski
<penguin42> out of the things imdb lists I think I've only seen Mi3
<neuro> seriously?
<neuro> wow
<MartijnVdS> Invention of Lying
<MartijnVdS> I've seen that.. but don't remember him
<MartijnVdS> and Lebowski, of course
<bashrc> it really tied the room together
<neuro> there's a beverage here, man
<daftykins> well you know, there's a lot of ins - a lot of outs
<shauno> ugh.  what the hell is all this easy_install **** and why can't people just package stuff
<bashrc> packagemonkey dude
<shauno> I'm not even sure I want to know what that is.  I just want to use apt :)
<neuro> it's platform agnostic
<shauno> here's the catch.  platform agnostic has never, ever worked out ot be a good idea
<MartijnVdS> neuro: so is apt ;)
<MartijnVdS> it works on arm, it works on powerpc, it work on x86, ... :)
<neuro> you know exactly what i mean :)
<shauno> I spent far too long last night trying to get a mono app working; mono kept complaining I didn't have X11.  a) I do, and b) the app uses sdl, not X11.  Today I tried a java app that just tells me unsupported major.minor version
<shauno> 'platform agnostic' generally means either it theoretically works, but only really on the dev's machine.  or it's just equally useless everywhere
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> i remember a java joke, "compile once, debug everywhere!"
<shauno> I remember a java joke that's decidedly too blue for this channel :)
<daftykins> ooh do tell
<shauno> hmm I'm not entirely sure how to word it.  it equates 'cross platform' with copulating with the wrong orrifice
<shauno> aaanyway.  I should go back to banging my head off a brick wall
<shauno> pyaudio apparently refuses to do anything without a soundcard.  even though it's reading the wav from a file
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> i hope you find a cushion for the wall soon sir
<shauno> the wall deserves it
<shauno> I don't suppose there's a way to fool alsa into thinking it has a card?
<daftykins> alas, not my area of expertise
<ali1234> why are you messing around with wav files and sound cards?
<shauno> so far I'm trying to find the signal within the audio
<ali1234> use 8-bit raw PCM
<directhex> shauno, what was the specific mono issue?
<shauno> well, that's pretty much it.  trying to start anything with mono told me I needed to download X11.
<directhex> on mac?
<shauno> right
<directhex> trying to run a winforms app?
<shauno> nah, a game that uses sdl (OpenRA)
<shauno> but I had the same issue trying to run monodevelop (trying to narrow down whether the game or mono was handling it badly)
<directhex> i expect they use winforms to do the basic window drawable. sdl 1.2 doesn't support that, you need a full toolkit to host the sdl pane
<directhex> sdl2 can instantiate a window
<shauno> oh I have it working now, through some mess of reinstalling things in the right order
<shauno> it just drove me nuts that running mono from within xterm still complained there's no X
<ali1234> xterm with no x... looooooool
<ali1234> mac is silly
<shauno> oh I have X.  xterm was my attempt at "proving it"
<ali1234> well i guess mono is the silly one then
<ali1234> i have run openra on linux and didn't have any problems
<ali1234> didn't even realise it was mono
<shauno> the issue seems to be that .. once upon a time there was X11.app and XQuartz.app.  the relationship between the two is similar to Chrome vs Chromium
<ali1234> this is what happens when developers decide X is "too old" and they need to rewrite it
<shauno> XQuartz was where all the work was done, and then X11.app was apple's "blessed" distribution of it.  Apple have since abandoned their blessed version, which everyone's fine with since upstream works better anyway
<shauno> mono specifically goes looking for apple's X11.app, rather than looking for X.  if it just tried to open $DISPLAY, it'd work fine.  but it tries to be clever, and fails
<directhex> um... it's not that simple
<directhex> the question is "where is libX11.so.6?"
<ali1234> is there an open source version of "hot or not" type of website?
<directhex> if libX11.so.6 isn't in the mac equivalent of LD_LIBRARY_PATH (it isn't), where should mono be loading it from?
<ali1234> static link it, isn't that how apple apps work?
<ali1234> everything is linked into a huge bundle with everything
<shauno> it's in exactly the same place either way, /usr/X11R6/lib/
<shauno> oh, apparently it's not, it's in /opt/X11; but that's symlinked from /usr/X11 and /usr/X11R6
<directhex> was that the case yesterday?
<shauno> yup
<shauno> has been for years; the two clobber each other when you try to install them
<shauno> just checked time machine to make sure I'm not going nuts; my oldest backup is from july, and has the same symlink layout
<marshmn> hi; anyone have a suggestion for an music/audio player? I've been using Banshee for quite a while, but nowadays it seems to crash every day or two and leaves a defunct process behind; I've trie RhythmBox seems to crash quite often on me
<marshmn> I listen to somafm quite a bit so would need one that has streaming capabilities
<andylockran> hey guys - anyone free to offer advice on writing/consuming a REST API?
<andylockran> I've got an EDF energy monitor - every minute it writes a row to the database with the time, and electricity usage in watts at 12 points around the flat, and a total figure
<andylockran> I've put in a simple REST api, which returns each row as an object (using django rest framework)
<Azelphur> andylockran: I want one D:
<andylockran> ideally, I want to pull out the 1440 results that make up one day, and compare them to the last
<andylockran> but using my current model, that's 2880 results from the api and seems to be heavy
<andylockran> I want to work out how I can bridge the objects. ie.  an api request to day/1 and day/2 where the result is essentially "select id,overall from electricity where date = date"
<Azelphur> andylockran: model.objects.filter(date=datetime.date.today())
<andylockran> Azelphur: yeah - I got that far, but then I want to organise the data before spitting it out through the api
<ali1234> that's what views are for
<ali1234> they don't have to return html
<ali1234> can be xml, or whatever
<Azelphur> indeed
<Azelphur> ali1234: you're a jack of all trades, know django too? :P
<ali1234> i've used it before, a little
<Azelphur> hehe
<ali1234> it's probably all different now
<ali1234> but it's still MVC right?
<andylockran> yeah
<aquarius> andylockran, there are a fair few django modules which expose a rest api based on your models for you, with a little configuration; might be easier than rolling it by hand
<daubers> Evening
<mapps> superbowl time!
<directhex> yay for owls
<mapps> ;]
<daftykins> those owls are superb
<daftykins> popey: owl throw would go down perfectly right now ;) )
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-26
<gebbione> any reasons why a specific folder just wont listen files through "Files" or nano ?
<gebbione> i see no problems in bash or accessing with other apps
<daftykins> listen files?
<gebbione> sed /listen/list/
<daftykins> hmm i'm not even sure how you have a text editor listing directory contents i'm afraid :D
<daftykins> might be better off with the non-UK specific channel, #ubuntu , at this time of night
<daftykins> bed for me o/
<gebbione> and yes that was Nemo
<gebbione> not nano
<gebbione> night
<mapp> hi all
<mapp> or hi daftykins  shauno  and zmoylan-pi
<mapp> :P
<mapp> noone around for once
<mapp> O_o
<popey> morning!
<MooDoo> morning all
<popey> yo
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning
<davmor2> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> another monday, having to decide if it's worth chewing through the restraining straps :-)
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo and davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka 'Ows life up norff
<MooDoo> davmor2: gota get that bovril, panic buying gallons of the stuff for the winter VORTEX that's coming.
<davmor2> MooDoo: hahaha
<MooDoo> Winter is coming
<zmoylan-pi> that and a barrel of lard for cooking... :-P
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Monday, and happy Australia Day! :-D
<zmoylan-pi> happy... monday...
 * zmoylan-pi suspects JamesTait is one of those happy perky people that zmoylan-pi hunts for sport with nerf :-)
<JamesTait> zmoylan-pi, I suspect you'd get a different impression after speaking to my family. ;)
<JamesTait> Apparently I'm grumpy.
<MooDoo> well i want to slap you with a wet fish :)
 * zmoylan-pi hands MooDoo a shark
<JamesTait> Shhhh!  That's our little secret!
<davmor2> Gooda JamesTait^Wsport
<JamesTait> Wotcha!
<davmor2> Puttin another shrimp on the bar-b
<zmoylan-pi> bright and cheerful on a monday.  a crime when i'm world dictator... :-)
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you said that with too much glee now you have to have yourself incarcerated
<zmoylan-pi> not glee, grim determination
<zmoylan-pi> easy to get those mixed up
<shauno> the evil part of me that really doesn't like mondays, is currently chuckling @ http://superuser.com/questions/869114/cp-file-in-dev-sdc-now-drive-isnt-readable
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<MooDoo> howdy bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<davmor2> JamesTait: I don't think your grumpy, more dopey if you have to be a dwarf ;)
<JamesTait> davmor2, sleepy lately.
<MooDoo> I'll be a dwarf :D
 * foobarry is back
<foobarry> what did i miss?
<popey> foobarry: http://imgur.com/9MVKdPG :)
<popey> also http://imgur.com/uFIoyDv
<MartijnVdS> wooo.. my new router is installed
<MartijnVdS> now all I have to do is wait for the ISP to up my speed :)
<MartijnVdS> (and get a bunch of new cables because the old ones are too short...
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> what are you going from and to again? speed wise
<MartijnVdS> 100/100 -> 500/500 :D
<MartijnVdS>  7% [==>                                             ] 76,334,850  10.2MB/s  eta 95s
<diddledan> MartijnVdS, I want your connection
<mapp> hi all
<bashrc> hi
<brobostigon> evening mapp
<diddledan> m00
<brobostigon> meep
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-27
<diddledan> hum te tum
<zmoylan-pi> doobie doobie doo
<MartijnVdS> morning
<diddledan> http://www.fanpup.me/uploads/2/3/5/9/23592480/bsg_personality_test.png <-- I'm either caprica-six or cally henderson
<diddledan> it's based on the MTBI test which you can do: https://www.mbticomplete.com/en/index.aspx
<diddledan> ok they want money
<diddledan> grr
<diddledan> cinemas project jpg images? http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Cinema_Package
<diddledan> fair enough it's a newer standard than normal jpg in jpg2000, but it's a series of independant images rather than an mpeg-like stream
<diddledan> I guess that's done so that individual frame corruption doesn't impact the video until the next keyframe
<diddledan> in essence each frame is a keyframe
<diddledan> we've probably all seen a corruption in an mpeg stream cause artifacts for several seconds of movie
<diddledan> that's one of the issues of keyframe based compression though
<diddledan> "let's throw out everything except changes between each frame - add-in some motion-dectecting for good measure"
<mapp> looks like
<mapp> im in gib perm now hm
<mapp> i just hope summer is as good as they say
<diddledan> is that good or bad, mapp ?
<diddledan> or just "a thing"? :-p
<mapp> well
<mapp> who knows how it will be
<mapp> but il be staying in gib for the forseeable future
<mapp> min 2 years
<mapp> better weather - cheaper cigs and spirits (so i can drink and smoke myself to death) but some downsides
<mapp> cant go to any spurs games anymore really
<mapp> too much effort
<diddledan> the facebook is down!!!!!!!!
<diddledan> armageddon is happening right now!
<mapp> lol
<mapp> oh no
<knightwi1e> Good lord
<knightwi1e> and tinder too ?
<diddledan> I wonder if facebook are going to write an article about what caused this outage - it's world-wide
<knightwi1e> and instagram ?
<diddledan> knightwi1e, certainly instagram is too
<knightwi1e> so we are going to have a bunch of desperate, vain, a-social people who are going to have to go outside and play ? ? ? ?
<diddledan> I don't know about tinder
<knightwi1e> what EVER will we do !
<knightwi1e> yep
<knightwi1e> Its worse
<diddledan> knightwi1e, they might move to g+ for a while
<knightwi1e> Slashdot.org is slow too
<diddledan> maybe it's northkorea?
<mapp> and twitter? its witter ok?
<mapp> what would the teenies do
<mapp> :D
<diddledan> it was the twits that told me
<diddledan> someone twatted about it, and then everyone else did
<diddledan> #facebookdown is trending
<knightwi1e> lol
<diddledan> well done thunderbird - "downloading 1821 of 465 in Dixter"
 * knightwi1e wonders if comparing a Thule Bumpercase to a Thong-for-your-laptop is inappropriate (in a review)
<diddledan> knightwi1e, nah
<diddledan> knightwi1e, everyone knows what a mankini is
<mapp> i feel so out of touch with this generationn
<mapp> and im only 30
<diddledan> I'm binary this year (32)
<mapp> i cant be bothered with twitter or facebook or instagram
<knightwi1e> add 10 years + a social life centered around dealing with UK and US geeks while living in Belgium ..
<knightwi1e> talk about cultural drift
<mapp> i have a twitter..but i tweet friends from betfair forum and thats it
<mapp> and i still dont get it how do people keep up with all the tweets and that
<zmoylan-1i> you don't keep up, you just keep an eye as it streams past
<mapp> hang on
<mapp> but then
<mapp> i might miss stuff from someone i follow|?
<zmoylan-pi> i have a list of friends that i keep separate and that is a slow list that i keep a closer eye on
<zmoylan-pi> try something like tweetdeck where you can split groups up into multiple lists.  tech, personal, scifi, gaming etc. and you can quickly scrollback as far as you want
<mapp> but what if i didnt look for a week
<mapp> i miss them all?
<diddledan> yup
<mapp> yea
<mapp> so how do people on twitter reply to tweets so quicly and have 10000s of tweets?
<mapp> they have to be sitting there waiting?
<mapp> just seems rubbish to me
<zmoylan-pi> unless they mention you in which case you can set up email notifications
<mapp> yea
<zmoylan-pi> people use twitter in different ways. i use it to follow friends closely, gaming a little, tech a little, and a few other subjects a little.
<zmoylan-pi> separating the wheat from the chaff
<zmoylan-pi> others use it as stream of consciousness as to what's happening right now
<zmoylan-pi> main problem is that twitter seems intent on changing something that works into something that is more profitable to them and less useful to users
<mapp> just seems too much for me
<mapp> so much flowing around
<mapp> id miss it all unlss they directly tweet me?
<mapp> how do people see things then if people dont mention them in te tweet..simply by checking?
<zmoylan-pi> then follow fewer people
<mapp> yea
<mapp> but some people follow 10000s of people and tweet 10000s of times?
<mapp> seems too time intensiv
<mapp> you use it much?
<diddledan> rory cellan-jones says that facebook is down by what "looks like some kind of attack"
<diddledan> (he's the bbc tech wonk)
<diddledan> lizard squad are claiming responsibility: https://twitter.com/LizardMafia
<knightwi1e> There , review of the Thule Vectro case going up now
<mapp> what new series to start hmmm
<diplo> mapps, ref tweeting, I move stuff into lists to be able to keep on top of it
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Chocolate Cake Day! :-D
<diddledan> JamesTait, good idea
<JamesTait> diddledan, I certainly thought so.
<msm__> JamesTait: Totally my favourite day!
<JamesTait> msm__, I saw it and I thought of you! :-P
<msm__> lol
<msm__> of course you did :)
<JamesTait> Two peas in a pod. ;)
<diddledan> chocolate peas
<msm__> lol
<czajkows1i> aloha
<JamesTait> I'm sure such a thing exists.
<msm__> JamesTait: if it doesn't we should invent it
<diddledan> ello czajkows1i
 * JamesTait pokes czajkows1i 
<diddledan> apparently the ONS says the UK economy grew 2.6% this year
<JamesTait> msm__, there are those balls with biscuit in the middle and chocolate on the outside. I think they'd do.
<diddledan> pretty impressive statsw
<diddledan> JamesTait, malteasers?
<msm__> JamesTait: They will do very nicely :)
<JamesTait> diddledan, no! Maltesers don't have biscuit in the middle! :-P
<diddledan> really?
<diddledan> what do they have then?
<diddledan> it's biscuitish
<diddledan> i.e. crunchy
<JamesTait> I don't know exactly what it is, but it's like Horlicks when you've left the lid off and it's got a bit damp and solidified. :-P
<JamesTait> It's malty (hence the name).
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: You disappoint me with your lack of happy holocaust day, but then I saw chocolate cake and forgot all about it ;)
<JamesTait> I know, davmor2, I know. I was just trying to start the day on a happy note. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: Jaffa Cakes wtf
 * JamesTait likes Jaffa Cakes.
<czajkowski> ahem that's beter
<czajkowski> *better
<popey> :( no replies to my UGJ mail
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<popey> yo
<diddledan> popey, I'd like to pop along if I can get transport somehow (means checking train times or convincing my driver - dad - to ferry me)
<diplo> Anyone here use *nix with Exchange at all ? Via thunderbird or Evolution or anything ? If so any recommendations
<diplo> We sell rebranded nuc's for some of our customers and up till now they've all used our mail server, got a new customer running Exchange ( I've not got one to play with currently )
<SuperMatt> Evolution in the path of reast resistance, especially if you have outlook web access
<SuperMatt> however, I've just gone with outlook web access
<diplo> SuperMatt, that's what I have suggested already :)
<diplo> From what I can remember if you enable imap on exchange it disables their MAPI option
<diplo> Been a few years since I've had to touch Exchange
<SuperMatt> http://devopsreactions.tumblr.com/post/109288736875/useful-code-snippet
<davmor2> msm__: you are just poping up everywhere :)
<msm__> davmor2: I sure am :)
<Laney> keeping an eye on you
<davmor2> Laney: she doesn't need to do that, msm__ knows I have a Sue, She's more than capable of keeping me in check, that's why I married her :)
<msm__> davmor2: Indeed :)
<popey> Laney: happy birthday!
<davmor2> Laney: 'appy birthday
<Laney> cheers mi ducks
<bashrc_> happy birthday
 * Laney gets old
<Laney> less than one year with the '2' at the start of my age now
<davmor2> Laney: I'll have a 2 in my birthday this year too, unfortunately mine starts with a 4
<Laney> life begins at 42, everyone knows that!
<diddledan> Laney, and ends at 42+364days
<diddledan> you're only 42 once
<Laney> it's a precious gift
<foobarry> i turn 40 at end of feb
<foobarry> need to think of a present. any ideas?
<diddledan> foobarry, I'm not sure you're supposed to buy your own presents?
<foobarry> i can choose for others
<foobarry> or ask for munneh to buy a bigger one
<diddledan> always go for a big one
<foobarry> my tablet sucks, but i suspect a hudl2 has shelf life of 1yr
<foobarry> is there a current nexus?
<foobarry> 7 inch ish?
<diddledan> nexus9
<foobarry> Â£Â£
 * Laney got http://www.plaidhatgames.com/games/dead-of-winter
<diddledan> nexus6?
<awilkins> The 6 is costlier than the 9!
<diddledan> o_O
<awilkins> Well, it is a phone
<diddledan> that seems a bit back asswards
<awilkins> The 9 is not
<diddledan> it has a cellular modem tho
<awilkins> The 9 only has LTE if you pay Â£460
<awilkins> So yeah, the 6 is still more expensive
<awilkins> 6 is Â£500 or Â£550 for the 64GB one
<awilkins> Making the 9 a viable phone, I suppose, if you have a BT headset
<davmor2> foobarry: the lego deathstar?
<awilkins> The main problem being that you'd have to carry your hipster manbag everywhere
<awilkins> The 6 is already stretching the credibility of one's pocket
<awilkins> Not had my hands on one though
<foobarry> is it a fully operational deathstar?
<davmor2> foobarry: http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/Death-Star-10188?HQS=lego+deathstar
<awilkins> WHERE'S THE CANTEEN
<awilkins> Nowhere serving a nice Pasta Arrabiata!
<awilkins> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv5iEK-IEzw
<daftykins> just watched the presentation on that thunderstrike attack on mac boot ROMs
<daftykins> that was neat :D
<daftykins> rather more trolltastic day in #ubuntu than usual it would seem
<ujjain> Is there a good site, not google shopping, to compare prices for electornics?
<ujjain> I want to buy a Dell U2515H, just new, but hard to find sellers, in Netherlands seems more available, but I live in the UK now and they dont ship
<knightwi1e> 22
<diddledan> 48
<diddledan> I'm assuming it's the sequence 2.2.4.8.14.26...
<knightwi1e> correct
<knightwi1e> you are now admitted to a higher level of secret geekery
<diddledan> :-p
<daftykins> ;D
<diddledan> time to forage
<popey> ujjain: i used to use pricerunner, dunno if it still exists
<popey> ujjain: also a browser extension called "Invisible hand" which does that for you
<ujjain> ah smart
<diddledan> oh my. babylon 5 is 21 today
<popey> never seen a single episode
<ujjain> me neither
<ujjain> i watched Star Trek
<ujjain> Babylon 5 is an American space opera television series - figarooooooo, figaroooooo
<diddledan> I saw a few eps in it's first run but didn't work out the schedule until I'd missed loads - I have since watched it properly and fully in box-set binge mode via downloaded video
<diddledan> it is pretty epic
<ujjain> yeah, people talk good about it, but I dont know if I'd enjoy something so old
<davmor2> diddledan: man it's old enough to drink and America wow
<diddledan> davmor2, aye
<diddledan> davmor2, and do n0rtybusiness too
<ujjain> I read yesterday on the internet that you can have a credit card before 18 in the US.
<daftykins> i think i saw a little bit of Babylon5 on TV, but yeah broadcast ruins most things
<daftykins> especially when a sci-fi is on during the day
<diddledan> the proliferation of cheap rerun channels in the uk has meant that they're airing multiple seasons in different slots so you think "ooh, I've been watching X, and it's just about to come on" only to realise you've either already seen it or it's two seasons ahead of where you were last
<diddledan> anywho, brb
<diddledan> food
<shauno> or it's the same episode you watched 4 hours ago
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0mUVY9fLlw
<diddledan> it's an old one but funny
<daftykins> star wars related *close* :D
<ali1234> the comments on that video
<ali1234> i can't tell if they are trolling or they are really that dumb
<daftykins> i still need to get that add-on that hides all youtube comments
<daftykins> far better for sanity
<shauno> I have 'alientube'.  it's .. well sanity may be false advertising
<zmoylan-pi> they're a great reminder that you're surrounded by eejits
<shauno> I don't need to be reminded, we have middle-management
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> off to Boots for some vitamins, this shingles pain when my clothes rub the area is intolerable
<diddledan> :-(
<daftykins> kinda funny having to pull out the phone in Boots to convert units on packs :D
<daftykins> diddledan: y'read about this one? really neat if you haven't :) "thunderstrike" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BrdX7VdOr0
<daftykins> diddledan: time to turn the lights on! :)
<DJones> Heh, I thought IRC was quiet, I blame the reported earthquake in Winchester
<KrimZon> an earthquake? what time?
<diddledan> daftykins, I'm just about to watch that thunderstrike vid - I heard about there being an issue but haven't read anything into it
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> it is ace!
<m0nkey_> diddledan, check other channel
<diddledan> DJones, earthquake in winchester? I felt nothin in badingstoke
<DJones> KrimZon: About 6:30 pm
<diddledan> daftykins, wow, option rom from ISA 8088 days
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> original IBM \o/
<diddledan> oh golly, replacing the rsa key in the firmware. this really is epic
<diddledan> lol @ picture of pre-thunderbolt devices
<diddledan> eep - it can be viral too
<daftykins> :)
<daftykins> gonna nip off to the TV for some more Sopranos goodness, bbl o/
<diddledan> hint: don't share dongles
<shauno> meh, I'm patched :)
<zmoylan-pi> patched for the backdoors we know about...
<shauno> that's true of everything
<diddledan> shauno, how'd you get patched?
<shauno> the appstore just magically delivers stuff
<diddledan> I've not received any firmware updates in ages
<diddledan> ooh, 10.10.2 has been released
<diddledan> shauno, http://support.apple.com/en-us/HT1222 no mention of the firmware in recent patches
<diddledan> linux glibc: https://community.qualys.com/blogs/laws-of-vulnerabilities/2015/01/27/the-ghost-vulnerability
<shauno> that kbase article doesn't look like it's been updated yet, it doesn't have anything more recent than dec22
<shauno> http://lists.apple.com/archives/security-announce/2015/Jan/msg00003.html  ^F Thunderbolt
<diddledan> is the security update 2015-001 for non-10.10 installs?
<ali1234> is it generally possible to transfer windows recovery partitions to a new (larger) hard drive?
<diddledan> is this the manifestation of the bond girl : https://twitter.com/EmrgencyKittens/status/560161609843499009/photo/1
<shauno> 2015-001 is 10.8 & 10.9
<foobarry> glibc vulnerability in some OS
<foobarry> In particular, we discovered that it was fixed on May 21, 2013 (between the releases of glibc-2.17 and glibc-2.18). Unfortunately, it was not recognized as a security threat; as a result, most stable and long-term-support distributions were left exposed (and still are): Debian 7 (wheezy), Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 & 7, CentOS 6 & 7, Ubuntu 12.04, for example.
<foobarry> http://classic.slashdot.org/story/15/01/27/1925208
<diddledan> foobarry, I mentioned that an hour ago
<diddledan> foobarry, keep up :-p
<diddledan> what are people's thoughts on plex vs mediabrowser?
<bashrc> another security panic?
<ali1234> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMykYSQaG_c
<m0nkey_> plex for me
<diddledan> aye, plex has always served me well
<mapps> hey all
<mapps> so tired
 * jussi hands mapps the toothbrush and toothpaste... off to bed with you!
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-28
<m0nkey_> was their a recent update to the intel video driver? getting some crazy screen tearing watching netflix. never happened until I updated the other day
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gz9TBt-DAQ
<m0nkey_> can I get a summary?
<diddledan> I'm just about to watch it - haven't seen it yet
<m0nkey_> why doesn't the guy blow his nose?
<m0nkey_> that sniffing
<m0nkey_> i can't watch this
 * zmoylan-pi watches back to the future instead
<mapps> hi all
<zmoylan-pi> snowed in yet?
<mapps> nope
<mapps> in gib
<mapps> lol
<mapps> ]dout theyve ever seen snow;p
<knightwi1e> morning everyone
<mapps> morning
<mapps> hmm
<mapps> thats not too bad
<mapps> paid Â£6 for bank transfer on betfair
<mapps> rather than waiting 3-5 days
<mapps> :)
<davmor2> Morning all today I will be mostly listening to the group responsible for the following line "I was just a skinny lad"
<awilkins> Government passed the fracking trespass law
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Data Protection Day! :-D
<bashrc_> morning
<awilkins> Is that Data Protection as in The Data Protection Act ?
<bashrc_> so, what's the deal with glibc? is it borked?
<JamesTait> awilkins, apparently known as Data Privacy Day elsewhere. Originally focused on raising awareness of the importance of protecting personal data online, especially in the context of social networking, but has since expanded to include the kind of thing covered by the DPA, yes.
<diddledan> rain. hard.
<JamesTait> Very changeable here today.
<JamesTait> Cloudy, then sunny, then suddenly very windy, hard rain, now cloudy and bright and still windy.
<shauno> welcome to my world :)  (although we did throw 10 minutes of snow into the mix too)
<popey> bashrc_: no. it had a security bug which affected some older releases of ubuntu, and that was patched and fixed.
<awilkins> Fascinating bug though
<bashrc_> popey: not recent versions?
<popey> nope
<popey> http://www.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-2485-1/
<popey> 10.04, 12.04
 * bashrc_ tries to avoid feeling smugg about not having that bug
<popey> :)
<brobostigon> question, would my nexus 4 getting very hot, cause its charging to malfunction? and also cause the battery to drain oddly?
<brobostigon> or is it an issue with android, and i just need to wipe and start again?
<popey> under what circumstances does it get hot?
<brobostigon> when under normal charging.
<popey> with the charger that came with it?
<brobostigon> yes.
<popey> not pc connected, but wall-charger?
<brobostigon> ac wall charger, yes.
<brobostigon> for example. i had it on charge all last night, battery meter showed 99%, unplugged it, in seconds in then showed 81%.
<brobostigon> also what i find odd, is for part of the night, in bettery details screen, its shows a huge gap, as if the phone was turned off, shows no network signal, awake time, no charging, nothing.
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: That almost reads like a dodgy battery (failure to hold charge). Batteries can be damaged by poor charging (e.g. if the charger itself malfunctions)
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: i would tend to agree, however can it just start malfunctioning like that out of the blue?
<davmor2> <heavily encrypted message> JamesTait: 101101011010001110101111010101101101110110101011010101MUPPET1101011011010101010101101011011010101001101011010101100 </heavily encrypted message>
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: I'd say so. Only thing to try would be a different charger. But if the battery has been damaged...then it's damaged.
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: so the only solution is to stick a new battery into my nexus 4?
<shauno> well, this is fun.  doing "remote hands" with a brazillian.  but via webex so I'm using his keymap
<foobarry> you are getting a brazilian wax done by remote hands?
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Only if the battery is actually damaged. The way to test would be to charge via a different method (second charger, USB...) and see if that holds.
<TwistedLucidity> If the battery is damaged, I'd replace the charger at the same time.
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: i see, ok, i shall test that out.
 * TwistedLucidity is not an expert, does not have a Nexus 4
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Chargers gets *hot* (not just warm) is usually a bad sign IMHO
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: i agree,
<brobostigon> that very strange, i just rebooted, stuck it onto a fresh unopened charger, and it bounced from 91% to 99%.
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: however what may seem like a simple question, how can a seemingly standard charger destroy a battery?
<diddledan> is it lunch time yet?
<brobostigon> close.
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: Fluctuating power? Incorrect current or voltage? Like I said, I'm no expert
<popey> brobostigon: batteries don't last forever
<brobostigon> TwistedLucidity: ah i see.
<TwistedLucidity> brobostigon: http://www.pwrman.com/faq/can-a-battery-charger-damage-a-battery
<brobostigon> popey: quite, yes.
<awilkins> Google modular phone will at least bring back an era where you can replace the battery trivially...
<brobostigon> a smart charger, interesting.
<popey> foobarry: how was your time away?
<foobarry> good thanks
<foobarry> more time in the evenings
<foobarry> also, i avoided the news and all forms of news
<foobarry> which was good for my soul
<popey> :)
<foobarry> i am still avoiding news, just not so strictly as before
<foobarry> got out of the facebook/twitter refresh habit
<foobarry> hopefully
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Pop off back, take out battery. Can't one do that on a Nexus 4?
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Just checked
<foobarry> also i made a thing
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, Takes careful prying and the battery is glued into place with sticky glue
<awilkins> Hairdryer and slow force required
<foobarry> i saw this pic in a book. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/TR_000978_kittyhawk.jpg so i made my own with recently finished tomahawk IIb in 1:72 scale http://i.imgur.com/GIXTc9n.jpg
<selinuxium> *going midly bonkers over cifs shares*
<TwistedLucidity> awilkins: Good grief. I have my current HTC but I'd hate that even more
<awilkins> TwistedLucidity, It's the perils of wanting slim devices
<awilkins> No room for the extra walls on a snap-in battery module
<awilkins> I wouldn't mind if they made them "user serviceable" as opposed to "assemble once, forget about it" though
<awilkins> Like replacing some of those snap fittings with screws instead
<awilkins> selinuxium, CIFS, blech
<selinuxium> indeed..
<awilkins> selinuxium, Most common problem I had was that you create a share, but the account Samba uses doesn't change it's password until you've changed the main unix account linked to it
<awilkins> I think the PAM for Samba stores stuff in a different location to /etc/passwd
<selinuxium> I have created a group 'transfers' and added all pertanent users. I mount the share usign the gid for the transfers. This works fine and changes the group for the share to be 'transfers', sadly it also changes the perms so that the group only has 'xr'
<selinuxium> Doing my nut..
<awilkins> ?? http://superuser.com/questions/274793/creating-a-samba-share-where-everyone-has-write-access
<awilkins> Job vultures now turning to GitHub to recruit...
<diddledan> awilkins, are they spamming you?
<awilkins> Had a couple of mails from JVs who claim I came to their attention because of my GitHub and other online developer profiles
<ujjain> is eBay bigger than Gumtree here?
<awilkins> Oh, definitely, I think
<awilkins> Everyone will know what eBay is. Most people would not know what Gumtree was
<Myrtti> it's still functioning, though
<JamesTait> Ooh, hail and snow now.
<ujjain> ahh, right. let meuse ebay
<awilkins> The newspapers promised vast drifts
<awilkins> So far I have unconfirmed sightings of a sprinkling last night that was rained away
<awilkins> Job Vulter has now followed my Twitter account.
<awilkins> Nice to know one is in demand, I suppose
<bashrc> the weather is rather bracing of late
<awilkins> It's brass monkeys out there, and they're blowing in here too
<zmoylan-pi> shouldn't feed monkeys on diet of beans then
<diddledan> if you want a deep-dive into the ghost issue try http://lcamtuf.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/technical-analysis-of-qualys-ghost.html
<popey> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amazon-Fire-Phone-32-GB/dp/B00IFQ56PU/
<popey> cheap phone
<Azelphur> they really are giving them away now ;)
<zmoylan-pi> how many camera does it have to spy on it's users again? :-)
<popey> Azelphur: see that bitcoin expo in london?
<popey> http://www.cryptoarticles.com/crypto-news/bitcoin-expo-2015-review-horrible-organizational-skills-lead-to-a-lot-of-missed-opportunities
<awilkins> Nice. Classy. Hiring pretty ladies to come to your conference.
<Azelphur> popey: yea I was there, I didn't think much of it too
<Azelphur> I haven't read the whole thing yet, but we got told to stfu a couple of times
<popey> nice
<bashrc_> you paid $3000 to be insulted?
<Azelphur> just on the phone atm, so will explain more after I'm done :)
<zmoylan-pi> we'd do it for free :-P
<bashrc_> :)
 * Azelphur reads article
<daftykins> wow you can't get the fire phone unlocked? no wonder they died ;)
<Azelphur> popey: yea, so my company paid for me to go down there
<Azelphur> I can confirm most of what was in the article really, the mics were broken and kept making really loud booming noises
<Azelphur> which kinda wreaked havoc with my noise sensitivity, I stayed at the conference but I couldn't really enjoy the talks because of it
<Azelphur> and at times the speakers just resorted to shouting because the mics were so broken
<Azelphur> the pricing was ridiculous, Â£400 for a chair and a goodybag or free entry, I believe a total of zero people paid for a chair, and then upon realising that nobody paid for chairs, everyone just sat in the chairs.
<daftykins> ugh
<Azelphur> No space to talk was certainly an issue, we moved off to the side to get out of peoples way, and people still grumbled at us twice for talking while someone was giving a lecture.
<Azelphur> I'm not sure whether the whole women padding thing is correct, I recognised and chatted with one of the girls there (Knew her from my time at Mozilla) so at least one of the women was legit. I also think their numbers might be a tad inflated with the ladies count.
<Azelphur> and no food/drink at the venue was very strange, I was surprised when they had a lunch break and the lunch break was essentially fuck off outside and see what you can find.
<Azelphur> so, yea, not the greatest of things I guess. I didn't stay for the 2nd day (even though my company would have paid for the hotel)
<bashrc_> bitcoin is interesting but I've never really done anything with it. It seems to be mostly about speculation
<Azelphur> bashrc_: it's very practical for me currently, work for a US based company, instead of ~2.5% exchange fees and international wire fees and 7 day transfer time, it's (practically) 0% fee and instant transfer
<Azelphur> I don't think there were as many people as they were saying either, it was only a school hall and it wasn't anywhere near full. I'd say <200 people total.
<popey> did you speak to the organisers at all?
<Azelphur> no, my colleague left pretty early, and I left soon after
<Azelphur> I mean I've been to conferences before and they are usually about meeting people, yet they had no space to speak to people and no time allotted to socialising like other conferences I've been to
<daftykins> heh
<diddledan> IL3 government is evil
<awilkins> Question : I have 2 USB keyboards plugged in (One is a PS2/USB adapter with my model M on it, one is a standalone USB keyboard connected later)
<awilkins> only the first one works
<awilkins> The other one is small and light and means I can change posture and use it as a quiet lapboard during meetings
<awilkins> Would like it to work.. is there a way I can select which keyboard is used, or have all keyboards work?
<jpds_> diddledan: what?
<diddledan> jpds_, IL3 is effectively "top secret"
<awilkins> Impact Level 3
<zmoylan-pi> the other is a simple way of indicating the meeting has gone on too long :-D
 * diddledan finally gets off the confcall
<diddledan> trying to explain that single-sign-on can't just guess at a user's id
<daftykins> lol
<zmoylan-pi> tell them that it means that if one person uses the password 123456 no one else can :-)
<daftykins> ace security there
<diddledan> someone said that our webapp should "just take the user id from the environment" and that it doesn't need to access the AD server
<daftykins> where environment == thin air? :)
 * zmoylan-pi has dealth with this... in a security company...
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, there's lots of talk of "ITHCs" as in "IT Health Checks" to ensure that everything is suitable for the IL3 rating
<zmoylan-pi> 9/10 you can get the user from the environment of the windows pc.  as long as the pc hasn't been repurposed to someone else after the first user got a new pc
<diddledan> and then they suggest not ensuring that a user is authorized to be using a specific id
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, yes, single-sign-on with windows and IE is actually pretty sensible provided that your server supports AD and Kerberos
 * awilkins actually worked on an app where users were identified by their passwords
<awilkins> If you asked to change your password and got told "no" then you knew someone elses password.
<zmoylan-pi> ^this
<diddledan> awilkins, did it show their "user id" on the front-end?
<awilkins> diddledan, Yes
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> lol
<awilkins> This was a multi-user environment (pharmacy software)
<awilkins> OS user login and out would have been prohibitively costly
<awilkins> And apparently feeding it a username also too much effort
<diddledan> plaintext passwords are awesome!
<awilkins> Password stored as reversible encryption, so not quite as horrible
<awilkins> But still horrible
<diddledan> I can imagine they improve that app by adding community features such as commenting. showing the user id against each post :-p
<awilkins> Naah, this app was a rich-client app written in VB3
<diddledan> hotlips1 is an admin. let's try logging-in using the password hotlips1 then
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> not even VB6!
<awilkins> Naah, the usernames were four characters
<awilkins> Yes
<awilkins> Won't even run on WIndows versions with no 16-bit thunking layer
<diddledan> wow
<diddledan> that's awesome
<awilkins> When I left that company they were actually running up against the limits of the VB3 compiler
<awilkins> I created a suite of compiler testing code to see what the limits really were
<diddledan> app too big?
<daftykins> XD
<awilkins> The chief problems were string tables and global members
<diddledan> aah managed memory space
<awilkins> You're only allowed so many things in the global scope, and a certain amount of total space for strings
<awilkins> The arrays were a PITA as well because you were only allowed a signed 16-bit integer as a counter
<diddledan> yeah, VB (prior to .net) wasn't really supposed to be used for LOB apps
<awilkins> Which made some of the things that should be trivial like sorting  > 33,000 rows in RAM a real PITA
<awilkins> VB6 was a nice language
<diddledan> I cut my teath using VB6 to create CGI apps
<diddledan> teeth*
<diddledan> and then I tried perl
<diddledan> and then I cried
<awilkins> VB6 wasn't incapable, with a few libraries and some decent engineering practise you could do good things
<awilkins> But yeah
<awilkins> I won't do VB.NET because it will destroy my legacy VB6 knowledge and then I won't be able to retire on it like the COBOL developers of the future
<awilkins> I know absurd amounts of stuff about how to make it perform well, and how to overcome the annoyances of the compiler
<diddledan> VB6 is inherently GUI-oriented so I was rather amazed that I coerced it into running headless binaries through a webserver
<awilkins> Like how it gobbles COM interface IDs
<awilkins> You can do that
<awilkins> There's some tools for stripping the GUI and making CLI apps with it
<diddledan> VB6 is really good at COM interop
<awilkins> Yeah, I'd rather use VB6 for COM stuff then C++
<daftykins> i'm debating going to finish an office upgrade prior to the secretary starting back tomorrow
<daftykins> MS Office that is
<diddledan> daftykins, MS Office, or furniture?
<daftykins> :D
<diddledan> aah you beat me to it
<daftykins> i'm still suffering quite a bit from the tail end of this shingles malarkey so i'd not be moving furniture :D
<diddledan> is it easing any?
<awilkins> Boo : http://it.slashdot.org/story/15/01/28/1445201/justice-department-default-encryption-has-created-a-zone-of-lawlessness
<daftykins> diddledan: it's all turned to scabs and eased off, but oddly the pain is worse now, like under the shower and from clothes moving atop it
<daftykins> i've got myself some vitamin packs to help get rid of the last now, C and a big B complex pack
<shauno> I'm loving this stuff with them freaking out over encryption.  they're basically endorsing products
<diddledan> awilkins, that's absurd
<shauno> if the DoJ whines something's too difficult to open, I'd consider that a selling point
<awilkins> "Your brain has an area of lawlessness! Get the fMRI machine out!"
<awilkins> Any idea why I can't use my extra USB keyboard? dmesg lists it as detected.
<diddledan> awilkins, that is an odd pattern, one working and another not
<diddledan> awilkins, maybe it's a bug in ibus?
<awilkins> Might be power
<awilkins> It was plugged into an unpowered hub#
<daftykins> hubs *shudder*
<awilkins> Have replugged it into a front socket and it works
<awilkins> Which is annoying because it works fine in the hub when it's on Windows
<daftykins> now i feel silly, because i was going to enquire whether you'd juggled ports around
 * awilkins rarrs
<zmoylan-pi> did you plug the usb hub into itself :-)
<daftykins> right i'm gonna go slay the MS office dragon
<daftykins> laters \o
 * awilkins has a thouhg
<awilkins> Nope, doesn't even show up in dmesg when plugged into the hub now
<awilkins> Tried unplugging my phone from the hub where it must surely be drawing current
<awilkins> Shows in the hub on startup, then doesn't work (but the blue light was lit)
<awilkins> Ah well
<diddledan> hub not plugged into the pc or into a different pc than the one you think it is?
<diddledan> (I'm assuming you have many pcs lying around :-p)
<awilkins> Hub is plugged into this PC
<awilkins> Only hub in this room :P
<diddledan> hehe
<awilkins> Know it works because i) the keyboard works on Windows, same socket, same hub
<awilkins> ii) Hub works for other things
<awilkins> iii) Keyboard lamp was illuminated all day (horribly bright blue LED)
<awilkins> Detected on startup in dmesg, but subsequent insertions of keyboard didn't detect, or light up
<awilkins> So meh, I'm guessing it's some kind of power management shenanigans that Windows is a bit chancier about
<smurfy> #minting
<diddledan> eep - just put a load of jeans in the washing machine and then couldn't find my phone
<diddledan> it's safe thank goodness
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: scariest feeling EVER
<shauno> especially when it won't let you open the door
<diddledan> I have no idea how to stop my machine mid-cycle
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> mines holding the power button
<diddledan> daftykins, that's a pc
<daftykins> pretty modern thing though, all fancy display and all
<daftykins> lol
<daftykins> it practically is :(
<diddledan> lol
<daftykins> it even gives me error codes
<popey> ours has a red lever you pull
<diddledan> popey, is that not a casino game?
<popey> heh
<shauno> you can win all your missing socks back?
<daftykins> XD
<ali1234> are there any consumer NAS units that can convert raid 1 to raid 5?
<ali1234> that is, if i get a 4 bay and put two drives in it in raid 1, then later add two more drives and convert to raid 5
<MartijnVdS> *convert*? I don't know.. but if I put 2 disks in my NAS, format it, then put in 2 more, it should do that I think
<MartijnVdS> read up on synology's "hybrid raid"
<MartijnVdS> (which is just LVM + MD + some fancy frontend )
<ali1234> yeah but if you put two disks in and then put two more in and don't convert it to raid 5, then you're wasting an entire drive
<MartijnVdS> yeah hence the "I think it converts"
<ali1234> but you didn't say that :)
<MartijnVdS> I implied :)
<ali1234> looks like the typical netgear/WD/dlink stuff can't do it
<popey> drobo :)
<MartijnVdS>  http://forum.synology.com/wiki/index.php/What_is_Synology_Hybrid_RAID%3F
<MartijnVdS> http://forum.synology.com/wiki/index.php?title=How_to_expand_the_RAID_Volume_with_additional_disks
<MartijnVdS> ^ explicitly lists upgrade from raid1-5
<ging> If you find an ubuntu bug report, which is marked solved, but really isn't solved at all, it's just been worked around, is it better to reopen, or start a new?
<popey> bug number?
<ging> 255889
<ging> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/255889
<popey> thats not actually a bug
<popey> just a support question.
<popey> what's the problem?
<ging> apt-cdrom doesn't seem to work on 14.04
<popey> what cd you trying to add?
<ging> cds now mount in /media/$USER/ which seems to break things
<ging> some software i need to be able to distribute via cd, but i have tried it with a downloaed ubuntu iso, and still doesn't work
<popey> you want to make an archive on a cd and distribute it?
<ging> yes
<diddledan> ging, the error message tells you everything you need methinks: "You may try the --cdrom option to set the CD-ROM mount point."
<popey> I have never used apt-cdrom, sorry.
<diddledan> me either
<ging> diddledan: well i have managed to get it to add it using the command sudo apt-cdrom add -m -d /media/$USER but then it seems apt can't use it from that location
<popey> isn't it /media/$USER/<label> ?
<popey> or similar
<ging> i can add the label, but it doesn't need it, it scans for ti
<ging> *it
<popey> ah
<popey> sorry, no idea
<daftykins> why not ditch the auto mount and try a manual?
<popey> i guess this is for newbs who are installing the software which ging distributes
<popey> so it will automount for them
<ging> that is manually mounted, the auto mount doesn't work at all
<ging> yes we need very simple instructions to be able to make it installable
<popey> is it a lot of debs then?
<popey> not just one?
<ging> the ubuntu software & updates manage also seems unable to add cds
<ging> yes quite a few that interdepend and replace existing packages
<ging> well it's 10, with several other optional ones
<popey> can you not make a ppa and tell them to add it?
<popey> or is it not public software?
<popey> or just put them all in a folder and say "sudo dpkg -i *.deb" :)
<ging> it contains some non public software
<ging> and it must be distributed on physical media for some security complicance reason
<popey> so put all the debs on a cd
<popey> in the root
<popey> tell them to put the cd in... "sudo dpkg -i /media/$USER/foo/*.deb"
<popey> but that doesn't get away from apt-cdrom not working correctly
<popey> is it a server or desktop?
<ging> both
<popey> bummer
<ging> we need to get gui install to work too
<popey> the grap[hical way to do it works okay
<popey> open Software & Updates, go to "Other software" tab and hit the "Add volume" button
<ging> doesn't work either
<popey> lulz
<popey> when do you need to do this by?
<ging> atleast it doesn't for me
<popey> I mean, are we talking this week/month?
<popey> you could instruct them to add the line to sources.list manually?
<popey> that's one line for them to paste/type
<ging> yes that is how i have it now
<popey> thats all apt-cdrom does
<popey> ok
<popey> sorry i can't help further.
<ging> i still can't quite tell if the add volume on software and updates is just me, the apt-cdrom i have had some other people try and they get the same errors and i have tried it on a fresh vm wtih a virtual cd drive and the same thing happens so i am pretty sure it is a bug
<ging> and is the same as reported in the bug report i found
<ging> the problem is the solution to that was to use another method
<ging> so do you think i should reopen or raise my own ?
<popey> you should open a bug
<popey> thats not a bug, its a q&a
<shauno> I just tried on a 14.10 VM (but adding the cdrom for 14.04.1 because I had it to hand)
<ging> surely it's a bug if the utility for adding cdrom sources, can't do the one thing it is meant to do
<shauno> it worked, but a) wasn't very descriptive about wanting root access, and b) had to be pointed at the mount-point because the auto-detection doesn't find /media/soneil/fulltitle
<shauno> (oh, and annoyingly, it unmounts whatever it finds at the mount-point before it runs.  which is annoying with the /media/soneil/ thing because the mount-point doesn't exist until the right disk is already there ..)
<popey> ging: I'm not saying the feature isn't broken. I'm saying the thing you linked to isn't a bug report
<ging> ah
<ging> that makes sense now
<shauno> this is what I get; http://paste.ubuntu.com/9924887/
<shauno> so the process is - insert disk, run apt-cdrom --cdrom /full/path/to/mount add.  then re-insert the disk, hit return
<ging> -m stops it unmounting it
<shauno> ah, even betterer
<shauno> I think it could be a lot more straight-forward though.  if the auto-detection just looked for any iso9660 mounted, and took a peek there first, it'd be 'magic'
<popey> it used to
<shauno> hm.  remind me never to look at apt's source again :)
<diddledan> shauno, need some brian-bleach?
<shauno> c++ just doesn't click with me.  and whoever wrote that appeared to be very excited about the ++ bit
<diddledan> I think c++ is meant to not click with anyone
<ali1234> um... did any one else's house just shake?
<ali1234> twitter confirms it... earthquake in the midlands somewhere
<shauno> wasn't there one yesterday too?
<ali1234> yeah, i didn't feel that one though
<moreati> didn't notice anything in east birmingham
<ali1234> it made all the junk on my shelves rattle
<ali1234> which isn't very hard
<ali1234> http://www.earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/helicorder/heli_dir_shz/CWF_SHZ_GB_00.2015012800.gif
<daftykins> well, that MS Office upgrade went relatively smoothly. guess i'll know for sure tomorrow when they use it :D
<daftykins> diddledan: ah you're back. i'm eating a scotch egg! envy me!
<diddledan> I'm eating a creme one
<daftykins> hmm
<daftykins> you win this round!
<ging> i wish i had a creme egg
<ging> i did have a choclate bar shaped like a pizza, but i ate it hours ago
<ali1234> deep fried creme egg anyone?
<Azelphur> popey: how strange, I just went to talk about that article with a friend, the site took it down
<ali1234> bitcoin is so sketchy :(
<shauno> ooh, 'rutland earthquake' on bbc news
<popey> Azelphur: fancy that
<Azelphur> strange
<intrbiz> http://www.earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/earthquakes/recent_events/20150128222601.html#page=summary
<shauno> weird.  bbc are saying usgs recorded 3.8.  why they not use british one?
<intrbiz> http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/eventpage/usc000tjwv#general_summary
<intrbiz> I suspect usgs published first
<intrbiz> judging by my twitter feed people felt it in Loughborough, which is about 35km away
<ging> ha there been another earth quake today?
<ging> in UK
<ging> wow that one was a lot bigger
<diddledan> are we frakking yet?
<diddledan> might as well blame that seeing as everyone else blames it for everything
<ging> pumping expesnive chemicals into the ground to get out worthless oil?
<ali1234> *gas
<daftykins> https://i.imgur.com/zUx384q.jpg
<daftykins> i like it
<ging> gas is even more worthless, i remember when they litterally couldn't give it away
<intrbiz> http://www.earthquakes.bgs.ac.uk/earthquakes/UKsignificant/index.html
<ging> it was less than 10 years ago
<ging> turns out it was actually real, not my crazy memory making stuff up
<ging> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/5402370.stm
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-29
<Azelphur> seems my Steam got a bit confused about how much data you can shove down a twisted copper pair. https://owncloud.azelphur.com/owncloud/public.php?service=files&t=31282a300afa19b39dc952fecf84fa10
<daftykins> rawr!
<mapp> hey all
<zmoylan-pi> hey mammals
<mapp> was up
<mapp> only one around atm zmoylan-pi ?
<zmoylan-pi> just me and my multiple personalities :-)
<mapp> criminal minds time
<mapp> yay
<mapp> surprising noone else is up zmoylan-pi  relatively ealy still
<davmor2> Morning all
<bashrc_> morning
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Curmudgeons Day! :-D
<davmor2> JamesTait: it's our day all day \o/ damn it that wasn't very Curmudgeonly nor was your happy shame on you ;)
<davmor2> And get of my lawn
<JamesTait> Pffft! You kids today!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Seeker`> hallo
<brobostigon> hi Seeker`
 * zmoylan-pi really must get latest mag, but it's really really cold out...
<zmoylan-pi> decisions, decisions...
<Laney> uksnowwwww
<ali1234> so it is
<bashrc_> snow in winter?
<bashrc_> but is it the right kind of snow?
<davmor2> bashrc_: no it isn't settling
<ali1234> it is here
<Laney> here too
<davmor2> No here :(
<davmor2> infact :'(
<Laney> was planning to go out on me bike and buy a new jacket later ...
<Laney> ...
<brobostigon> no snow here yet, but dark skies.
<JamesTait> Starting to settle here now. :(
<popey> :(
<popey> sunny here
<bigcalm> Snow flurries here one and off all morning. Stuck early morning, but things are just wet now
<JamesTait> Yeah, we've had flurries all morning too. It was lovely and sunny at 8:00!
<JamesTait> I thought spring was finally on its way!
<MartijnVdS> no snow here.. though there was a big "TOMORROW THE WORLD WILL END WITH SNOW" warning yesterday
<popey> MartijnVdS: you fosdemming?
<MartijnVdS> so the train service went into a shutdown mode (using their special "snow timetable")
<MartijnVdS> popey: Ooh that's this weekend right? I may drop by.
<MartijnVdS> On one day
<popey> be nice to have a beer
<popey> s/a/some/
<MartijnVdS> I'd be driving, so not too much ;)
<popey> well ping me on whatever - telegram etc if you're around
<MartijnVdS> you're there all weekend?
<popey> yes
<popey> fri-mon
<MartijnVdS> great!
<awilkins> Anyone else getting the "Firefox has prevented... Adobe Flash" thing?
<awilkins> Even on pages with no Flash on them?
<davmor2> awilkins: it might be that an advert has flash somewhere on the page
<davmor2> awilkins: you'll be surprised at how many now default to a static advert if a browser doesn't support flash
<awilkins> davmor2, This page is a Ruby on Rails site ("tracks") running on my own personal Raspberry Pi
<davmor2> awilkins: then it just hates you :P
<awilkins> gmail isn't doing it
<awilkins> There can't be a flash thing on this, surely...
<awilkins> Ok, tell a lie
<awilkins> There's some kind of Flash chart thing in it somewhere
<awilkins> No Flash update though
<awilkins> Don't want to just randomly push the button in Firefox to upgrade it
<awilkins> On the presumption this will ruin the distro installation
<Seeker`> http://www.ustream.tv/nasahdtv launch in ~6 mins
<MartijnVdS> what's going up today?
<zmoylan-pi> price of butter in nigeria :-P
<MartijnVdS> ...
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: smooth
<Seeker`> http://www.nasa.gov/missions/schedule/#.VMo-I2isV8E
<MartijnVdS> a soil moisture monitoring thing.. interdasting
<zmoylan-pi> soil moisture device... in space... won't that make it harder to take a reading? :-)
<Seeker`> oh, holding at T-4 mins
<Seeker`> for 10 mins
<Seeker`> that seems silly
<MartijnVdS> they always do holds
<MartijnVdS> and yes it seems silly :)
<zmoylan-pi> someone explained this, they have a checklist they go through and t-4 is the place on the checklist.
<MartijnVdS> ah, synchronisation point basically
<Seeker`> It means that they can go from where they are to launching in 4 minutes
<Seeker`> so they hit "we can go in 4 mins" then double check their launch target
<Seeker`> and start the last 4 minute countdown 4 minutes before their launch window
<MartijnVdS> Seeker`: I never have to do that in KSP
<zmoylan-pi> more, there's 4 minutes of tasks we need to complete before we can launch but have stopped right now while checking something that might cause a problem
<Seeker`> zmoylan-pi: I think this is standard
<MartijnVdS> zmoylan-pi: nope, they check in the hold
<Seeker`> they did just adjust the launch window back by 2 minutes
<Seeker`> aww
<Seeker`> scrubbed for today
<Laney> boo, no Feel at Home in .be
<MartijnVdS> Feel at Home?
<MartijnVdS> also, I can imagine nobody would Feel that in .be :)
<Laney> where you get to use your Three tariff abroad, including data
<zmoylan-pi> buy a local prepay sim
<Laney> haha
<Laney> thanks for the advice
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: it'd be nice not to need to
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: e.g. i'm going to the US this weekend, i get data roaming
<zmoylan-pi> it would, but the silly prices for data roaming make it the easier less painful choice
<Laney> that's the point of feel at home ...
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: Â£0 is cheap.
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: me and Laney pay Â£0 for data roaming to a list of a couple of dozen countries. the moan is that .be is not on the list
<zmoylan-pi> well not quite 0 as you are already paying for the service :-)
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: data roaming *is* expensive normally though. when i left orange, i told them it was Â£2.4 million a year cheaper on three due to the roaming costs
<directhex> (this number is a lie, as my contract only covers 3 months' roaming per year, so it's only Â£600,000 cheaper)
 * zmoylan-pi usually manages to make â¬5 last 2-3 months on prepay... :-)
<directhex> i have a Â£15 a month contract. which covers 100 minutes, 5000 sms, and unlimited data, per month. when roaming it's capped to 25GB
<shauno> I accidentally racked up a e1200 bill roaming, a few years back :/
<directhex> the list of supported countries is at http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Phones/Feel_At_Home#dest
<zmoylan-pi> the joy of prepay is that you can't run up a huge bill, just find the phone stops working when you run out of credit :-)
<directhex> Orange was Â£8 per meg in the USA, so 25GB at Â£8 per meg was Â£200,000
<MartijnVdS> directhex: whoa
<MartijnVdS> US is â¬9,10/megabyte for me
<MartijnVdS> Australia is â¬0,24/MB
 * zmoylan-pi remembers a story from mists of time when someone in a company sent a copy of afterdark screensaver via satellite link at work to office on different continent and it cost a few grand...
<directhex> Laney: the solution is clear. we get fosdem moved to macau.
<zmoylan-pi> nah, mainland china, just to see how long the chinese firewall lasts :-P
<Laney> the company would totes pay for my travel there, too
<Laney> s/fosdem/fosdam/
<MartijnVdS> Laney: fosdam would be in Amsterdam :P
<directhex> zmoylan-pi: mainland isn't included. just macau & hongkong
<DJones> Apacheuk: Please fix your connection
<Apacheuk> Apologies was using my mobile.... Hadn't realised it was a problem
<DJones> Apacheuk: No worries, just noticed the errors
<DJones> Just wanted to flag it up in case you hadn't noticed yourself
<Apacheuk> Djones: cheers
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-30
<diddledan> jpds_, in what way was I wrong about IL3?
<daftykins> psst
<shauno> sssh
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/gkwgjb6qj108xh2/IMG_20150130_022455.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> miaow.
<shauno> lol
<shauno> you rent?
<daftykins> nah, why?
<shauno> I've noticed all the rentals here seem to have exactly the same furniture / curtains / etc.
<shauno> and I swear I had that exact same chair in my last house
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> ah i got that from my parents
<daftykins> those are the shorts that succuumbed to the great gravity fail of August 28th 2014
<daftykins> so many holes in them XD
<shauno> (I rent because I refuse to believe I'm not a 12yo, and consider myself ready to move to another country at a moment's notice)
<daftykins> :D
<shauno> which used to make sense, but now I've had the same job for 8 years, I kinda feel like one of them little yellow minion dudes
<daftykins> d'aww
<daftykins> could be worse, you could've done your own thing since Uni and never quite grown up
<daftykins> never quite gone official too, so if i tried to get a job they'd ask what i did with the last 7 years
<diddledan> daftykins, I managed to find a company that didn't ask :-p
<daftykins> no way1
<daftykins> *!
<daftykins> the gov don't care?
<shauno> I had a weird one with that.  I had a job in the US where they just assumed I was illegal
<diddledan> heh, the government gave me security clearence
<diddledan> (hence being allowed to see IL3 documents)
<daftykins> shauno: O_O and didn't care?
<daftykins> that's nice of them
<daftykins> i got quite insulted at US immigration the way the zombie at the desk went "if you work for money you will be deported"
<shauno> apparently not.  I made a comment about my greencard one day, and they decided that meant I had to pay taxes now
<shauno> it was quite odd
<daftykins> doh, so if only you'd stayed quiet? :D
<shauno> it probably would have been worse, because I filed taxes like a good boy.  I had no idea they though otherwise
<diddledan> daftykins, as opposed to working for free?
<diddledan> or working for gifts in kind?
<daftykins> :)
<shauno> that is about the only sensible answer to that ;)
<daftykins> i better sleep before this nutjob in #ubuntu who runs everything as root, angers me
<daftykins> and before i get too existential
<shauno> or you could just kill that tab
<daftykins> who wants a shingles update? :D
<daftykins> nah i'm not too hot with irssi so if i parted that channel, i'd have them all out of order! D:
<shauno> I'm still not convinced shingles is a realy thing
<shauno> I think if you /part instead of /kill is should leave the window intact?
<shauno> or you could just ignore him
<daftykins> in that case you'll enjoy pic 4
<daftykins> https://www.dropbox.com/s/7jsakunsdbm71mk/shingles4.jpg?dl=0
<daftykins> higher res edition!
<daftykins> they're kinda going now, but i'm now in regular grimmacy firey burn pain
<shauno> heh
<shauno> I have a friend who suffers from extreme eczema, so ends up with stuff like http://i.imgur.com/OFvLkZp.jpg
<daftykins> wow
<daftykins> it's like a little lightning bolt
<shauno> makes me feel so normal :)
<shauno> (I don't really do 'ill'.  I used to suffer from food-poisoning a lot, until the smoke came out my wall and my cooker stopped working)
<daftykins> now it's takeaways? :)
<daftykins> i really didn't get ill before this either
<daftykins> it's been a pretty gradual descent down since my accident and hospital really
<daftykins> plus turning 30 next month
<shauno> awww
<shauno> I remember my 30th :)  I passed out in the funniest position ..
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> went on a pub crawl in newcastle.  with what I could only describe as a camra extremist.
<daftykins> perhaps we shouldn't ask...
<daftykins> lmao
<diddledan> camra?
<daftykins> now that is a fine terrorist organisation
<shauno> which all went fine, until someone decided cider would be a good idea.
<daftykins> a mate messaged me tonight saying he's at some kinda ale/beer fest up in Scotland
<diddledan> shauno, my brother got me onto snakebite+black once
<daftykins> diddledan: campaign for real ale
<daftykins> eh, i was at Portsmouth Uni - snakebite there was already with blackcurrant
<shauno> I was doing fine until the cider.  but I woke up in my dad's house, infront of his fireplace, in the position the buddhists call 'prostrate'
<diddledan> rumour has it that snakebite+black causes weird psychiatric distrubance for a short period
<shauno> no.  drinking with students causes psychiatric distrubances
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> uff, I used to drink with a swedish exchange student.  I met him in the pub once, and he was sat all alone with a pitcher of something aweful
<shauno> he asked if I'd like one, and I said yes, assuming it'd mean a glass for me too.
<daftykins> does that mean terrible, or full of awe?
<shauno> so they brought me a pitcher too ..
<diddledan> oops
<shauno> daftykins: welcome to English.  it's not fun.  horror->horrible->horrific.  terrible->terrible->terrific.  why is terrific a good thing?  the english language hates us :)
<shauno> er, terror->terrible
<daftykins> XD
<daftykins> g'night gents
<shauno> there's a polish chap at work who keeps sending me things to proof before he sends them.  I gave up when it came to explaining why advise is a verb and advice is a noun.
<shauno> 'night daftykins
<shauno> ooh nice, the devel branch of wireshark for osx actually uses native toolkits instead of x11
<shauno> I think I'll sleep too.  I have to visit the humans tomorrow to find a new pump for my heating thingie
<diddledan> shauno, you're still without heat?
<diddledan> and does that mean I'm left all on my own.. :-(
<shauno> yes
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, surely your alternative nick should be zmoylan-3-14!
<zmoylan-pi> *I AM NOT A NUMBER* ::cue prisoner music::
<zmoylan-pi> release the giant baloon :-)
<shauno> lol don't you start
<shauno> I'm trying to explain to a yank that the song they play at graduation is "land of hope and glory"
<diddledan> shauno, lol, so the dudes who battled to not be british celebrate acheivement by playing a british patriotic tune?!
<shauno> you didn't know this?!
<diddledan> nope
<shauno> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tW0QqiT2LU&t=275
<zmoylan-pi> a lot of tunes were repurposed for new lyrics
<diddledan> I can't sing the song without going into hitler has only got one ball
<shauno> like the 'stars and stripes"?  which started off as a british drinking tune?
<shauno> Elgar was asked to dress this one up for edward8's coronation.  it wasn't written for this purpose, but it was the original author who added the lyrics
<mapito> hey all
<shauno> oh dear
<shauno> allo mapps, but I think your appearance means it's bedtime
<mapito> what ye all upto
<mapito> hah
<mapito> im home early than normal
<shauno> I are be up to bugger all, really
<shauno> I tried blocking my chimney to see if it'd make my living room warmer.  my living room now smells fantastic
<mapito> lol
<mapito> really?
 * diddledan is watching an oldie classic - outbreak
<diddledan> good ol' dustbin hoffman
<shauno> I'm shopping for flats, and trying to decide if I can really tolerate living with random humans
<mapito> ;]
<mapito> moving?
<shauno> dunno
<shauno> this house is miserable
<shauno> I don't have heating, I don't have hot water.  there's more, but that's the crux of the issue
<zmoylan-pi> cold showers are character forming :-)
<shauno> lol
<shauno> I would answer that, but the family-friendly rules forbid my answer :)
<mapito> who do you live with atm
<shauno> I do have an electric shower.  so that's not actually an issue.  but the taps are ...
<shauno> right now, I live with me, myself and irene.  it's not the cheapest method, but it'd good for my brain
<zmoylan-pi> ah then you don't have cold showers, i had cold showers while immersion was been replaced.  middle of summer and i thought for a week i was going to die of hypothermia.  mind you ireland, so...
<diddledan> shauno, you wash?
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, you do, too?
<diddledan> you really are strange basement-dwellers
<diddledan> shauno, irene?
<diddledan> shauno, does she stay on the proviso that you offer sexual favours?
<shauno> it's a film
<shauno> although, I did see a flat advert that basically stated thus
<diddledan> well that fell on deaf ears
<shauno> I saw a flat ad for dublin where you could share a bed for x price, with all kinds of .. erm .. well I can't find a polite way to state what he meant by this
<shauno> or a room in the same flat for 2*x
<diddledan> wow
<shauno> indeed
<diddledan> did he mind what gender?
<mapito> lol really
<mapito> hahaha post link
<diddledan> although I'm not sure you're allowed to discriminate
<shauno> oh you are.  the last one that caught my eye had 'females only'
<diddledan> I'm in a one-bedroom. I wonder if I should advertise for a female room-mate
<shauno> which I kinda understand, and kinda don't.  I can see that if you have 3 ladies in a place, a 4th is much easier than "one of us"
<shauno> on the other hand, my ex-wife potty-trained me, and I'd much rather be rejected on my merits
<diddledan> no wonder you split up if she was constantly trying to change you :-p
<shauno> lol
<shauno> I'd explain why we split up, but again, family-friendly
<shauno> lets just say she had some hobbies which weren't family-friendly
<diddledan> err
<diddledan> I'm not sure if that's intriguing or scary
<shauno> "yes"
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> the monkey in outbreak is adorable
<shauno> most monkeys are adorable
<shauno> except bonobos
<shauno> actually
<diddledan> which are the ones with the huge bum?
<shauno> go wiki bonobo monkeys.  you'll get a fair idea of why I'm divorced
<shauno> no, that's baboon
<mapito> sweet
<mapito> suits is back on
<shauno> serialz?!
<shauno> to the torrentmobile, batman!
<shauno> I mean.  I shall have to watch out for that.  I assume it's on ch4 or somesuch
<diddledan> shauno, there's a large array of sexual behaviour on that wiki page - I'm wondering which of them your ex was prone towards - certainly the lack of monogomy might be an issue
<shauno> let's just say "yes"
<diddledan> lol
<shauno> okay, this isn't quite family-friendly, but it's not also not-family-friendly, so I feel I can share
<shauno> my strangest experience with my ex, was after I'd moved into my 'office' so we were sleeping in seperate rooms
<shauno> and her "guy in dublin" came to visit, so was upstairs in her room
<shauno> and said "guy in dublin" found out about "guy in galway".  and was on the phone to her
<shauno> so I was sitting, in my house, listening to some guy freaking out on the phone with my wife, because he'd just found out he wasn't my wife's only boyfriend
<diddledan> eep
<shauno> it was, to say the least, a little awkward
<diddledan> methinks you being married to her should have trumped his being a boyfriend
<diddledan> unless she was also married to other folks
<shauno> oh it was done and dusted by then
<diddledan> aah
<shauno> she was only back because her last 'guy' turned out to be ... err .. well he was from new jersey.
<shauno> and I offered that I still had her room basically untouched, and it made more sense for her to crash there than deal with a monkey
<shauno> she's still there and I moved out, but it seemed like the right think to do at the time
<mapito> damn
<mapito> sucks having no desk you know
<mapito> no desk here..no offie chair
<mapito> so i sit on the bed and its uncomfortable so i endup crossing my legs
<mapito> after 30mins..get up yep leg aches
<mapito> :(
<mapito> anyone read about microsoft cantor or whatever it is? basicallu MS answer to siri..predicted like 15-1 in the world cup
<diddledan> lol @ quote from outbreak - lady says "I got a friend in the coast guard" dustbin hoffman asks "how close a friend" she replies "closer than his wife would like"
<mapito> you off woek today?:D
<diddledan> nope :-p
<mapito> urgh
<mapito> what time you work from and till
<diddledan> 9 till 5:30
<mapito> what do you do then sleep when you finish for like 20hrs?
<diddledan> teehee
<mapito> id feel awful doing what you do diddledan :)
<mapito> when ive not had enough sleep i get irritable..agitated..hot and bothered
<mapito> and hate it:D
<mapito> suits is so good
<mapito> and one of the girls in it is crazy hot
<knightwi1e> morning everyone
<SuperMatt> morning
<diddledan> time for work
<davmor2> Morning all
<diddledan> and that's my hours submitted for payday today
<diddledan> annoying that it includes xmas which means days not working, so no money :-p
<diddledan> allo davmor2
<MooDoo> morning all
<diddledan> moo
<diddledan> I wonder if any banks do "incoming payment" alerts such as for payday deposits
<diddledan> I wanna know what time my wages hit my bank account
 * diddledan rubs his hands in glee
<diddledan> I missed a week in december due to bank holidays being on fridays so I get an extra week this month \o/
<MooDoo> mine normally hit at 12 midnight :D
<MooDoo> ooo i've been paid
<diddledan> mine is manually done
<MooDoo> :p
<diddledan> if I were on a salery it would be auto I guess, but I need to file a timesheet and get the wages calculated off that
<JamesTait> Good morning all; happy Friday, and happy Fun At Work Day! *8OD
<diddledan> JamesTait, it's only fun today because it's payday
<JamesTait> diddledan, *every* day is fun at work day!
<diddledan> teehee
<JamesTait> (For certain definitions of fun)
<bashrc> happy fun payday
<diddledan> and tomorrow we're celebrating my nephew's december birthday
<diddledan> his DOB is actually 22nd December so my sister decided it was too close to xmas for a party
<diddledan> I lost track of how old he is already
<diddledan> he's either 3 or 4
<diddledan> I really suck as an uncle :-p
<diddledan> or maybe I'm just being true to uncledom?
<diddledan> I need to consider pinching his cheeks and saying "look how big you've got"
<diddledan> though I believe that's usually left up to the aunties
<awilkins> Uncles are traditionally the more subversive and evil one that shows their nephews and nieces evil tricks that will plague their parents for months
<diddledan> teehee
<diddledan> that sounds fun
<diddledan> I like that we can fill their heads with nonsense and then hand them back
<davmor2> JamesTait: How's that different from any other work day?
<JamesTait> davmor2, that's what I said, isn't it? ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: was in meetings still playing catch up :)
<JamesTait> davmor2, that doesn't sound like fun at work. ;)
<davmor2> JamesTait: the outcome of the meetings was fun though
<diddledan> davmor2, more holiday?
<JamesTait> Company trip to Disneyland?
<diddledan> free transport to FOSDEM?
<diddledan> </topical>
<davmor2> JamesTait: no more testing :D
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> wait, doesn't that mean you ship dodgy code?
 * JamesTait bites his tongue.
<davmor2> 096797
<diddledan> I was just about to say that
<JamesTait> davmor2, 2fa gets everywhere these days. :-P
<davmor2> diddledan: I'm testing JamesTait code it's bound to be broken
<diddledan> davmor2, I thought you weren't testing anymore
<davmor2> diddledan: no, more testing
<diddledan> oooooh, a comma.
<davmor2> it made sense in my head :)
<diddledan> problem with the internet, that.
<diddledan> apparently they haven't invented neural linkage capability
<davmor2> muppets what are they playing about at
<diddledan> I know, right. If I were in charge it would be the first thing I'd make them invent
<davmor2> diddledan: I wouldn't, I'm not sure I want to know what goes on in your head ;)
<diddledan> davmor2, I do my best to keep you lot informed. problem is it gets me the wrong side of family friendly and I start getting moaned at
<diddledan> shauno keeps telling me off for, you know, thinking.
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> morning bashrc
<davmor2> can't you tell popey isn't hear I mean it silent on here really today :D
<MartijnVdS> yeah, he's.. training 8-)
<MartijnVdS> Apparently, I have 500/500 now.. or soon-ish
<MooDoo> literally train-ing.
<MooDoo> :)
<bashrc> training on a train
<diddledan> sure he's not on a sales campaign?
<diddledan> MOOOOODOOOOOOO
<diddledan> :-(
<diddledan> train must have wifi
<popey_> :)
<diddledan> ello
 * popey_ pokes davmor2
<popey_> That is all.
<davmor2> popey: How's the training?
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: the train had 4G, even underwater, 2 weeks ago :)
<davmor2> popey: where you at now?
<popey_> St pancras
<diddledan> I heard you can get cancer there
<diddledan> in your st pancreus
<Myrtti> popey: https://plus.google.com/111101795166699165422/posts/a3XiqxXZ7s7
<davmor2> popey: https://bugs.launchpad.net/music-app/+bug/1416373
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1416373 in Ubuntu Music App "Minor issue on the initial start up screen" [Undecided,New]
<MartijnVdS> :') 1,073,741,824 57.8MB/s   in 18s
<diddledan> you got your upgrade?
<diddledan> I'm on 152Mbit/12Mbit
<diddledan> or there abouts for the upstream - they don't actually advertise what the up is
<daftykins> bit weird :(
<MartijnVdS> diddledan: yeah, got the upgrade today
<diddledan> or at least they don't make it easy to find
 * diddledan googlies
<diddledan> yeah, thinkbroadbent agrees with 12Mbit
<MartijnVdS> I need to test my upload.. how can I do that easily?
<daftykins> host a file and ask us to download it :D
<daftykins> that's the only real world way imo
<jpds_> MartijnVdS: speedtest-cli.
<MartijnVdS> jpds_: I don't trust that -- download speed is lower than what I get with wget :)
<daftykins> hah yeah a service like that testing his connection XD i don't think so
<MartijnVdS> jpds_: and upload is only 200 and not the 500 I've been promised
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: i wonder if VPSs are fast enough for you to throw a file up to, to test?
<MartijnVdS> daftykins: I think there's a bandwidth test thing on my ISPs network.. iperf?
<jpds_> I probably have a faster link than the test server: http://pastebin.com/JsM7t7N9
<daftykins> MartijnVdS: ah yeah, i've used that for LAN testing
<awilkins> speedtest-cli reports much lower speed than the web app
<awilkins> I'm getting 90 / 6  according to the webapp
<awilkins> Or somewhere around 55 - 65 / 6 according to the CLI
<awilkins> Using multiple HTTP downloads of an ubuntu ISO from three mirrors at once I'm getting around 75Mbit/s
<daftykins> crikey, MS Outlook is so terrible. tell it to download a mail store from scratch and it still writes in loads of junk space ballooning the cache file larger than it needs to be
<zmoylan-pi> there is no redeeming value to ms outlook other than 'it's what everyone else uses'
<daftykins> hehe
<daftykins> yeah, people that use it are married to it
<daftykins> i tried to save some people some money once, by suggesting they try google apps' web interface first
<daftykins> nope, they like having the same familiar UI - so hundreds of pounds it was
<zmoylan-pi> and then they complain when you can't get the same version next upgrade
<daftykins> aaaaah, Blade Runner soundtrack
<daftykins> so good
<zmoylan-pi> can't go wrong with vangelis
<daftykins> indeed :D
<zmoylan-pi> all those spaghetti westerns can't be wrong :-)
<diddledan> vangelis is teh bomb
<daftykins> \o/
<zmoylan-pi> though i do like penguin cafe orchestra too
<diddledan> the score for blade runner still haunts me
<daftykins> i got given a lot of that once
<daftykins> diddledan: how-so?
<diddledan> in a good way
<daftykins> it's very touching to me
<daftykins> Rachel's Song and Love Theme, ooh my
<diddledan> it's very atmospheric and immersive
<daftykins> ja :D
<daftykins> i wonder if i should try headphones for a change
<diddledan> I've not actually tried listening to it on headphones
<diddledan> that could be even more awesomer
<daftykins> ooh mine are right beside me
<zmoylan-pi> see the watercolour animation of blade runner someone started?
<daftykins> no sir?
<awilkins> Outlook now available on Android
<awilkins> Classic MS chess move
<zmoylan-pi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLwmlMezS3U blade runner.  looks wonderful
<awilkins> Getting ansty because things are integrating with Exchange too well
<awilkins> Now they can break the Exchange protocols and when people go "You broke my client!" they can just say "But you can get Outlook on Android!!!"
<daftykins> here's hoping they don't :(
<davmor2> awilkins: no I think it is more if you can't beat them join them, and most companies still use outlook so being able to use it on your android phone is important
<daftykins> i know the corporate email client on Samsung android handsets at least is an app
<zmoylan-pi> moving to a rental model.  ick
<awilkins> davmor2, Yeah, but my Android phone already integrates nicely with Exchange out of the box
<awilkins> It even imposes all those important features like corporate ICT being able to nuke my phone from orbit
<daftykins> ^ i do enjoy that :D
<davmor2> awilkins: but it isn't outlook, outlook is more about calendaring than email
<daftykins> come to think of it, i think i have some old handsets to clear out for someone soon
<awilkins> The calendar works!
<awilkins> ALso works on the EWS plugin for Thunderbird / Lightning
<awilkins> But... if you understand the protocols, you might implement a replacement server!
<awilkins> So they have to start changing them
<awilkins> Before someone realises that the big expense of running Outlook is the server CALs
<awilkins> And goes "by cracky, these chaps really understand the protocols, perhaps we can get them to make an Exchange-compatible server that doesn't cost us $N a user a year!"
<awilkins> Having Outlook on more platforms softens the blow of changing those protocols
<awilkins> Because they can just go "Use Outlook, we don't recommend those filthy hippy products"
<zmoylan-pi> i have never seen outlook exchange run without giving grief randomly and regularly
<diddledan> it also provides a platform for microsoft to do an open source-style attack - i.e. get people used to MS and encourage them to find out more
<daftykins> i have hosted Exchange setups for some, tends to work great :D
<awilkins> I hear the sysadmin is rather arcane
<daftykins> i've got some with simplymailsolutions.com based in the UK
<awilkins> But you always hear the bad stuff
<zmoylan-pi> if you like job security and need to poke it with stick once a week :-)
<daftykins> hehe
<awilkins> You don't hear about EXIM being a total PITA much, do you
<daftykins> there are users at the end of it, you are always needed ;)
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, I have been working hard at making our systems resiliant to the point of non-interferance which means I've basically made myself redundant :-p
<davmor2> awilkins: also microsoft is learning what it is like to not be number 1, so if it gets it's products on other platforms it is likely to help them rather than hinder them as they used to think, I think it is the giant trying to play catch up.
<zmoylan-pi> we replaced a mdaemon with exchange and moved from once year having to type in credit card number to get one year more updates to having to reboot the exchange once a week as it was so terrible
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi, I'm sure things have improved since then. I hope.
<zmoylan-pi> i'm not sure they did
<diddledan> I wonder if office 365 runs a stock exchange system or if it's a completely new piece of software that just happens to use the same protocols?
<awilkins> diddledan, Doubt it's stock exchange
<diddledan> awilkins, yeah, that's my thinking too
<awilkins> The NHS email system runs on stock exchange and we have silly low quotas
<awilkins> *had
<awilkins> No longer work for them
<awilkins> It was Samsung Contact but they changed
<awilkins> Now they are tendering for a new one
<daftykins> heh a client was doing some board work for a Guernsey gov. department, they had a 100MB quota
<daftykins> on her mailbox
<awilkins> Yeah
<diddledan> eep
<diddledan> that's teeny
<daftykins> i called in to laugh at it, since they were dealing with attachments a lot
<awilkins> I think we had some users with 80MB quotas
<zmoylan-pi> well once you completely ban attachments... :-)
<daftykins> got it all fixed up ready for her to resign and have to give back the supplied iPad >_<
<awilkins> Mine was 400MB
<awilkins> Thunderbird has that thing where it offers to shove attachments into a file management system
<daftykins> zmoylan-pi: hehe, if only - i'm remoted into a guys desktop atm looking at emails with 7 attachments, each individually zipped
<awilkins> Like it will upload it to Dropbox and mail links
<daftykins> interesting 0o
<awilkins> You can plug in different things to it
<daftykins> have you guys notice that nobody seems to know how to use Dropbox? i keep finding people have signed up because someone's linked them to a file and made out like you have to sign up to get it
<daftykins> it's either that or they're sneakily looking for free storage credit via referrals
<awilkins> So you could easily make one for your corporate CMS and do that
<awilkins> How hard is it to use Dropbox?!?!?
<awilkins> "Install it. Put files here. Files here will appear on other machines. Also, they're backed up for at least 30 days."
<awilkins> The MS equivalents suck so hard
<awilkins> We've apparently been waiting 2 years for people to sort out SharePoint shared folders for us all
<zmoylan-pi> people don't know about it, or are using google drive or one drive and don't want a new account
<awilkins> *facepalm*
<daftykins> they seem to link people to a page to sign up to dropbox, instead of to the actual file
<zmoylan-pi> sharepoint... ::me casts ward evil::
<awilkins> I've got a Copy.com account
<awilkins> Not sorted it out properly yet
<awilkins> But I got one so Mum would get more free storage
<awilkins> Her backups go to Copy.com
<awilkins> Tried to make a loop filesystem for it so they wouldn't exceed the quota but Duplicity has a mental if you try and back up to a drive that's as small as 20GB for some reason
<mapito> this duolingo app for ios/droid is cool
 * daftykins ponders a quick pub trip
<mapito> ;]
<mapito> close at 12?
<daftykins> not even sure :S
<daftykins> might be last orders in 15
<daftykins> seems to be 11:45pm
<mapito> did you go daftykins ?
<mapito> if he replies guess not
<mapito> guess he did
<mapito> ;]
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> and back
<daftykins> just had the one
<mapito> done my spanish for today
<mapito> using it on my ipad air at home and on my phone when i do cardio on the nbike at gym
<daftykins> neat :D
<daftykins> learning some is it?
<mapito> si
<mapito> La gatos bebes la aqua
<mapito> :D
<mapito> the cats drink the water
<mapito> heh
<mapito> Hablas tu ingles ?:D il just say that to spanish
<mapito> speak eng;p
<daftykins> ;)
<daftykins> it was interesting learning that cerveza is pronounced differently between north and south Spain
#ubuntu-uk 2015-01-31
<mapito> it is?!
<mapito> didnt know that
<daftykins> yarr :D
<daftykins> we went on a road trip around a few years back, in the north you pronounce the 'z' like a UK 'z', but in the south you basically say cervetha
<mapito> hm
<mapito> christ
<mapito> i need to sort this out
<mapito> im drinking far too muich
<mapito> my dad thought maybe if i came to gib would sort me out
<zmoylan-pi> moving to new place would help... moving is one of the most stressful things you can do
<zmoylan-pi> moving to a new place would help /sarcasm
<mapito> nah
<mapito> did  the same in portmouth
<mapito> and in surrey
<mapito> and in lambeth
<zmoylan-pi> and did it help then?
<mapito> ne
<mapito> my drinkings still quite bad
<mapito> as is my smoking
<mapito> i drink maybe 10 pints a day
<mapito> but im trying
<zmoylan-pi> your liver can't take that level of punishment forever
<zmoylan-pi> ditto your lungs
<mapito> sur
<mapito> e
<mapito> no
<mapito> i have a drink problem ;d
<mapito> jesus
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<bashrc> morning
<brobostigon> does anyone happen to know, if i can chagne the yubikey, to show the openpgp applet over its nfc? i cant find any information on it.
<Azelphur> Has anyone noticed that Ubuntu is shipping a version of flash with security vulnerabilities?
<Azelphur> Firefox keeps whining at me about it
<Myrtti> Azelphur: unfortunately yes.
<Myrtti> but it's not really ubuntu's faut
<Myrtti> fault
<Azelphur> Myrtti: interesting
<Azelphur> hows it not Ubuntus fault?
<Myrtti> because Adobe has stopped supporting NPAPI a good while ago and there is no up-to-date version of Flash for Firefox
<Myrtti> Ubuntu can't ship something that doesn't exist
<ali1234> none of that is true
<Azelphur> I see
<Myrtti> ali1234: do enlighten us then, I'm looking for a solution myself.
<ali1234> adobe release a security update 6 days ago
<ali1234> it is available in ubuntu
<ali1234> prior to that they released a security updates on 22 jan, 13, jan, 9 dec... etc
<Myrtti> this is true, but for some reason I seem to not get them on mine
<Myrtti> oh well, time to try again
<ali1234> i don't know about that. i got the updates
<ali1234> mozilla still says these version are vulnerable, however they are probably just doing "if version < newest then COMPLAIN"
<MartijnVdS> argh. Why does steam seem to be crashy these days? I didn't change anything..
<knightwise> evenin
<knightwise> anybody still up ?
 * penguin42 yawns at knightwise
<knightwise> hey penguin42
#ubuntu-uk 2015-02-01
<mapps> hi all
<daftykins> mornin'
<mapps> sup!
<daftykins> mmm not much, kicked back on the sofa
<mapps> 2what to watch
<mapps> did some more spanish using the app today
<mapps> its funny..its like when you learn english 'the cat sat on the mat'
<mapps> stuff like 'the elephants drink water'
<mapps> lol
<daftykins> :D
<mapps> hm cool dwight from the office is in this new series
<mapps> daftykins
<mapps> still around??
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls,
<bujji> openmotif-2.2.3-x86_64 Notffound.failed
<bujji> hey any one
<bujji> openmotif22-2.2.3-x86_64 Notffound.failed
<bujji> :popey hi
<m0nkey_> wut?
<penguin42> indeed
<ali1234> penguin42: bug 1409015
<lubotu3> Error: Launchpad bug 1409015 could not be found
<ali1234> something weird happened on that bug
<ali1234> some random person came along and marked it fix released, private security
<ali1234> as far as i can tell it is neither
<ali1234> and now the person appears to have been deleted from launchpad
 * penguin42 can't see it either
<ali1234> i can see it cos it's my bug
<penguin42> can you untick the security tag?
<ali1234> done
<ali1234> any idea what happened here?
<penguin42> ali1234: It sounds like a random person being random
<ali1234> and then got deleted for being too random?
<penguin42> maybe, or deleted themselves?  I wonder what otherstuff they broke
<ali1234> https://dogfood.paddev.net/~ijdisabest
<ali1234> weird :S
<penguin42> yeh I found that as well
<penguin42> ali1234: Can you set that back to new?
<ali1234> done
<ali1234> i need to check if it still happens actually
<penguin42> hehe
<ali1234> none of the installers have been working for like the past week but i think they are fixed now
<penguin42> ah, I've got kubuntu 15.04 downloading at the moment
<ali1234> zsyncing the xubuntu daily...
<penguin42> ali1234: hmm
<penguin42> ali1234: The install apparently worked fine, but it's failed to boot off the disc after install in a VM
<penguin42> hmm, ok after a reset, hmm
<ali1234> xubuntu booted okay
<ali1234> start page is in right language
<zmoylan-pi> can't you just change that in a setting?
<ali1234> yes but that's not really the point?
<penguin42> ali1234: You mean it's not remembering it from the installer?
<ali1234> no
<ali1234> when i reported the bug, i just went through the installer and didn't change any of the defaults (it detected UK correctly)
<ali1234> and then in the install the start page was in arabic or something
<ali1234> this time i did the same thing but it worked as you'd expect
<penguin42> wacky
<ali1234> i suspect related to the bug that was making the installer not work at all
<ali1234> that was something to do with character maps and the ISO
<daftykins> diddledan: i too, have creme eggs! \o/
<daftykins> *creme egg clink*
<zmoylan-pi> the new icky creme eggs?
<daftykins> how do you mean? have they changed 0o
<penguin42> they changed the chocolate to standard CDM rather than a better one they used to use
<zmoylan-pi> they changed the recipie. there's uproar over it in uk and ireland
<penguin42> however, I never liked them since they were always too sweet for me anyway
<daftykins> WAT
<daftykins> i haven't opened my box yet so i shall have to conduct research
<zmoylan-pi> i liked them in early 80s but haven't had one for years
<daftykins> so you practically haven't had one for as long as i've been alive :>
<daftykins> (i'm 30 this month ;_; )
<penguin42> daftykins: http://www.chocolatemission.net/2015/01/january-30th-cadbury-creme-egg-in-2015.html
<zmoylan-pi> i think i had one around 2000 or so
<daftykins> penguin42: ty sir!
<daftykins> don't worry, i've done the necessary science... sample #1 went down just fine
<daftykins> creme eggs are still safe
<mecanik> hi
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-01
<diddledan> quiet in here today
<mapps> hhi all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<knightwise> morning minsky
<zmoylan-pi> be careful out there, not only is it monday it's also storm henry
<knightwise> good morning zmoylan-pi
<knightwise> .weather
<knightwise> ah , that bot is not awake aparently
<knightwise> Yahoo! Weather - Tongeren, BE: Mostly  Cloudy, 10?C (50?F), Humidity: 94%, Fresh  breeze 8.9m/s (->)
<zmoylan-pi> [Dublin, DUB, Ireland] Condition: Mostly Cloudy/Windy | Temp: 11C/52F/284K/511R | Humidity: 88% | Wind Speed 26mph/42kmph
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> hey MooDoo
<knightwise> Bleurgh
<knightwise> have to do some legal stuff today
<MooDoo> knightwise: doesn't sound too good, unless you're completing on something like buying a house?
<knightwise> nah , cancelling a contract with a client
<knightwise> always tread lightly on these issues
<knightwise> so i have some phonecalls to make and things to look up
<knightwise> one of those cases where you "have to be caerfull what you write in a email"
<zmoylan-pi> you touched our computer once and now our printer doesn't work...
<knightwise> lol
<MooDoo> ah those
<zmoylan-pi> my personal best was 7 years earlier installing a printer cable (parallel) and that was why the computer no longer booted 7 years later...
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: factastic !
<knightwise> Nah, i'm a consultant for a large project. Client hired me as an IT architect, expected to get a senior Project manager.
<knightwise> So the road was bumpy the first month (Also the end-client we are working on is not very mature IT-wise and we had a shitty high level design to work with) ..
<knightwise> result : My client starts complaining about my fee and stuff
<knightwise> so .. better to end it right there
 * knightwise cant say more , channel is logged and indexable
<popey> morning
<MooDoo> morning popey
<sara> hey anyone around?
<MooDoo> only us chickens :)
<davmor2> Morning all
<czajkows1i> aloha
<zmoylan-pi> all recovered from fosdem?
<czajkows1i> heading home today
 * zmoylan-pi looks at weather forecast... seems legit... :-P
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Freedom Day! ð
<zmoylan-pi> freedom day... on a monday... is this irony day? :-P
<foobarry> donkey kong country returns on the wii is quite a hard game
<foobarry> i've arrived at the final boss now though. have to get some practice in so i can show my son that i can beat it next week
<foobarry> at the designated wii playing time
<zmoylan-pi> last game i got stuck in was medal of honour on the pc. storming the beach took me a week to get past.  mostly unlike when i was a teenager i was only playing an hour or two casually a day versus 6+ hours at a time
<foobarry> thats the best bit of the gane
<zmoylan-pi> i eventually made it to cliff with about 11% health left and continued on...
<foobarry> reminds me of a care free time of my life. just bought my first house, could play ps2 all day long on weekends
<zmoylan-pi> i did enjoy the game but when i went to replay it i didn't enjoy it as much as it was very... linear...
<\sv> I need to create a backup partition
<\sv> one which i can install a bootable image of ubuntu on
<zmoylan-pi> a spare usb drive not available?
<\sv> no
<\sv> i have a sata drive but it isnt free
<\sv> i think cus my sys is unstable a usb drave is safer possibly
<zmoylan-pi> i was thinking more a thumb drive. just that if anything happened to the primary drive it would work independent of it...
<\sv> im going to pop out and buy one; what size woud i need these days? used to be 1gb
<zmoylan-pi> i usually use 4gb as a minimum.  not sure when was the last time i saw a 1gb for sale...
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> last time was a proper thumbdrive... :-) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4wMYIZIUAE-NG9.jpg
<\sv> brobostigon, http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/3589573.htm holy.... oh wow
<zmoylan-pi> i had one of those... so easy to lose...
<davmor2> JamesTait: now I know you are making this shit up
<JamesTait> davmor2, Freedom Day should be an easy one! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: Ok where did I see baked alaska day then
<JamesTait> davmor2, just trying to keep you on your toes. ð
<davmor2> ah that's where fair enough
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlY90lG_Fuw
<JamesTait> davmor2, tell sparkiegeek about that one. ð
<foobarry> who was using sphinx ? was it diplo ?
<davmor2> foobarry: is that the text thingy?
<davmor2> foobarry: or the server search engine
<foobarry> docs site
<foobarry> i made a sexy site in markdown
<foobarry> not that sort of sexy
<foobarry> ok its just a text heavy website
<DJones> Yikes, A man's been arrested after reports of someone walking round with an axe in Pemberton, Wigan. He's being questioned on suspicion of affray.....round the corner from pur office
<foobarry> i used mkdocs instead
<awilkins> Grrrah, what an age we live in
<foobarry> DJones: axe guitar
<awilkins> Just had to do a turn-it-off-and-on-again on my *monitor*
<davmor2> foobarry: Myrtti maybe
<awilkins> Got it's firmware knickers in a knot, presumably
<Myrtti> tha wha
<DJones> foobarry: Somehow, I don't think so
<awilkins> Wasn't reporting itself to the OS properly
<davmor2> Myrtti: is it you that uses sphinx?
<DJones> Probably turn out to be a lumberjack or off duty fireman
<Myrtti> no, I'm LaTeX all the way, baby
<davmor2> Myrtti: ah I new it was something to do with text layouts that made them pretty
<davmor2> knew even
<foobarry> i decided to use mkdocs instead of sphinx because markdown > RST
<foobarry> but i think sphinx supports md now
<davmor2> foobarry: no idea
<diplo> foobarry: yup I use sphinx
<diplo> There are converters for Markdown, I've never looked...
<awilkins> Pandoc
<awilkins> Is the thing you get when you look for such a thing
<awilkins> I have to say, I agree with the sentiment of an article I saw that asserted that Markdown isn't all that
<awilkins> Mostly because the various implementations vary so much
<awilkins> And of course, because the original spec of Markdown is ambiguous
<awilkins> I'm usually quite happy with Textile as implemented by Redmine, but of course, Markdown gets all the attention / editor support / tooling
<moreati> Text in Unity on Ubuntu 15.10 seems a lot smaller today? Did something change, or am I imagining it?
<awilkins> A "standard" with a need for a tool to compare the output of 20 different implementations isn't very standard, is it.... http://johnmacfarlane.net/babelmark2/faq.html
<zmoylan-pi> see web rendering engines... :-)
<moreati> and SQL, regex, libc, ...
<zmoylan-pi> and programming languages...
<davmor2> moreati: imagining it the font is the same as 14.04 in 16.04 there is an update.  Maybe you need new glasses ;)
<zmoylan-pi> or are sitting further away... :-)
<moreati> davmor2: yeah, probably pebcak
<davmor2> moreati: if it's a fresh install you might of upped the size of the font on some things and then in the fresh install they got reverted so seem smaller maybe?
<moreati> not a fresh install, just 15.10 with apt upgrade run some time in the last few days
<davmor2> moreati: not sure then
<zmoylan-pi> i seem to vaguely aware of an update resetting the font settings. as someone with woeful eyesight it was very annoying.
<foobarry> my son says he uses "infant scratch" at school
<foobarry> i wonder if he means http://www.scratchjr.org/
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> morning all
<diddledan> foobarry: no he means he gets itchy :-p
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> Who likes crontab fun?
<bigcalm> I have a job that runs every minute to check if a process is running and restart it if it isn't.
<bigcalm> It works from the CLI, but it doesn't from crontab
<awilkins> My number 1 crontab mistake - assuming that the crontab runs with your user environment set
<awilkins> Including PATH
<bigcalm> Looking at the mail output from crontab, it's returning a number rather than fully processing the command
<diddledan> show us the code
<diddledan> :-p
<diddledan> show me the money! :-D
<bigcalm> The command (for testing) is: ps aux | grep -c 'apache[2]' || service apache2 start
<diddledan> yup, || will turn it into a boolean
<diddledan> so the result will be true if service apache2 start succeds
<diddledan> that's why your crontab mail thinks it's returning a number
<bigcalm> This counts the number of rows returned by the grep. If it's 0 (false) then the service command is run
<bigcalm> Works from the CLI. But from crontab, the email shows: 1
<bigcalm> And doesn't run the service command
<diddledan> yup, did you actually check whether apache gets started?
<diddledan> aah
<diddledan> try wrapping it: bash -c "your code"
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3`> pong!
<diddledan> !ding
<lubotu3`> dong
<shauno> bigcalm: I'd remove the -c .. it won't fix anything, but I think it'll make it more obvious what's going wrong
<shauno> (I suspect that '1' is grep -c telling you there's one match.  and I suspect it's in cron's commandline.  || isn't testing the number grep returns, it's testing whether its exitcode is non-zero)
<shauno> if oyu remove -c, instead of just telling you there's 1 match, the email will contain the line grep found in ps-aux, which should give you a better idea why it's never finding no matches
<diddledan> never not finding nohow
<shauno> well that's what grep || otherwise does.  if grep finds nothing, it returns non-zero so 'otherwise' runs.  but the number it's printing to stdout isn't the exitcode
<diddledan> gotchabob
 * diddledan mutters something about himself being a mormon
<diddledan> :-p
<m0nkey_> Yes, yes you are a mormon.
<diddledan> \o/ m0nkey_
<m0nkey_> Hopefully not bankrupt.
<awilkins> DAMMIT what is with Firefox ATM ; it just keeps locking up
<diddledan> wfm
<pwaring> Can't remember the last time I used Firefox
<pwaring> Chromium seems a lot faster
<davmor2> awilkins: are you trying to use it?
<diddledan> davmor2: that sounds like a bad idea
<davmor2> diddledan: well I'm guessing that could be the start of the issues ;)
<diddledan> aye
<diddledan> so someone is trying to rewrite WordPress as a nodejs app: http://wordexpress.io
<davmor2> awilkins: did you make use of the features that were removed in the latest versions like group tabs for example as things like that will crash if it is in the config maybe
<awilkins> davmor2, No, never used any fancy config
<awilkins> It just gets to the point where it doesn't refresh the display - you can flip between tabs and the title changes, but it doesn't even redraw the new tab levels
<m0nkey_> I'd hate to be the guy that had to change a hard drive in one of these: http://natick.research.microsoft.com/
<diddledan> dang
<awilkins> m0nkey_, I imagine you just build a lot of redundancy into them
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3`> pong!
<bigcalm> I wrote all of this out between 14:36 and 14:42. I guess my connection to the server wasn't real
<bigcalm> I'm having to read http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2016/02/01/%23ubuntu-uk.html to see that people actually spoke to me
<bigcalm> I ended up putting my command into its own file and calling that from crontab. Works now
<bigcalm> Reading the log in the above link and watching it play out here is kind of weird
<diddledan> this has popped-up on hackernews: https://drewdevault.com/2015/11/01/Please-stop-using-slack.html
<directhex> diddledan: what a terrible post.
<diddledan> heh
<directhex> if you don't understand the fundamental issue with why people are using slack over irc, then you can't offer useful advice on the topic
<directhex> having run IT at a company, having been the monkey in charge of those decisions, IRC is not fit for purpose if your collaborators include anyone who isn't an extreme nerd
<directhex> where "extreme nerd" means "someone who can SSH to a server & run a process on it long term"
<directhex> which is a *huge* barrier to entry
 * zmoylan-pi reports directhex to daily mail as evil hacker wearing hoodie at night in front of screen...
<zmoylan-pi> probably even owns a balaclave... :-P
<awilkins> 2 reasons why I am looking to stick rocket.chat (OSS Slack) in our network
<awilkins> 1) the non-nerd factor
<awilkins> 2) Persistent chats
<awilkins> Number 2) is the killer
<awilkins> IRC - go away, come back, you missed a load of stuff
<zmoylan-pi> non nerds... ewwwwww.... :-)
<awilkins> Slack - you come back, you catch up on what you missed by flick-reading it
<zmoylan-pi> i just log into my rasp pi and press page up...
<awilkins> Add that to 3) Put your own Rocket.Chat server up and it's HIPAA compliant
<awilkins> Or Sarbanes/Oxley or whatever
<awilkins> It's actually corporate policy that we're forbidden to use IM that they don't control
<zmoylan-pi> i'll run the rasp pi inside the solar desk calculator on the md's desk? :-D
<awilkins> Saw a Casio FX83 casing that someone put a Pi inside
<awilkins> Probably even easier with a Pi Zero
<zmoylan-pi> the pi zero fits almost anywhere
<awilkins> Shame all the connectors aren't at one end
<awilkins> Then you could make a T-800 style casing for it and a slot to put it in
<zmoylan-pi> it is a little but you can work around that
<foobarry> copy.com are shutting down their dropbox copy
<foobarry> they offered 50gb
<zmoylan-pi> i get by with dropbox's free 2gb or whatever it is these days
<foobarry> need to dig out my glacier settings again
<foobarry> what about photos and personal stuff?
<foobarry> the other alternative is an encrypted disk stored at work under lock and key
<zmoylan-pi> i tweet the photos and the personal stuff goes no where near the cloud
<zmoylan-pi> apart from personal encryption notes that would be unreadable to anyone
<crypface> uk ?
<crypface> ooh england
<crypface> aka islamabad
<crypface> no thanks
<diddledan> erm
<diddledan> huh?
<brobostigon> is there a way. for example with something like nano, and have the file be encrypted end to end, with my openpgp card.
<diddledan> brobostigon: I don't know the exact answer but theoretically it is possible by passing your file contents to php via STDIO
<diddledan> pgp**
<diddledan> gpg**
<brobostigon> that was similer to what i was thinking of as well, thats good thinking.
<brobostigon> as well.
 * brobostigon wants to create an appropriate will.file on a fairly secure usb drive, for his fiance, is the time requires it.
<brobostigon> if*
<diddledan> e.g. echo moo | gpg -se -a -r some@recipient.example.com
<brobostigon> a simpler solution would probably be a text file signed with my key, to prove it is me who created and edited it? rather than full encrption, yes, much simpler.
<diddledan> the advantage of not encrypting is that anyone may read it. the disadvantage is anyone may read it :-p
<zmoylan-pi> or use a system that looks like normal text but with other text distributed inside it
<diddledan> if you encrypt it for recipient-X then you're reliant on that user retaining their key
<popey> brobostigon, with vim, yes, easily
<popey> brobostigon, i have a gpg encrypted file on my laptop. I open it with vim which decrypts it, and when I save, it automatically re-encrypts it
<popey> a simple vim plugin which does it
<brobostigon> popey: ah interesting,
<popey> http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=3645
<brobostigon> thank you popey :)
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-02
<diddledan> I'm guessing .net is a big project to run through ALL TEH TESTS: http://dotnet-ci.cloudapp.net/job/dotnet_cli/
<mapps> hi all
<MooDoo> morning
<knightwise> Â²morning peeps
<MooDoo> morning
<popey> Â²morning
<MooDoo> popey: shame about the brick :( I did that to my asus router
<popey> yeah, annoying
<popey> probably fixable, just irritating as I don't have time for this bs
<davmor2> popey: what happened dude
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<MooDoo> I've just had a new virgin media router, so just using that for now...
<davmor2> MooDoo: has it not broken yet?
<MooDoo> davmor2: no it's the superhub 2ac, it's pretty stable at the moment, it's nice having 2.5 and 5 ghz wireless :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: had that for an age killed the first one they sent a second it never arrived sent a 3rd and the second arrived at that point I switched it from router to modem only and used my own tp-link with open-wrt and never looked back :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: yeah i had that setup myself, but as the router is in the kids room, decided I didn't want lots of boxes/cables in their to fiddle with and aint paying Â£100 to get VM to move the box downstairs into the living room
<MooDoo> *there
<popey> davmor2, i needed to update dd-wrt because my install was old and buggy
<popey> downloaded the flash update and uploaded it to my router, now it wont boot
<davmor2> popey: ouch that's not fun
<davmor2> popey: does the router have a reset button (read up first but, but see if that will save you)
<popey> yeah
<popey> it has a whole process for resetting
<popey> didn't work
<popey> need to look more into it when i have time
 * davmor2 hope you can get it sorted
<popey> yeah
<popey> had to switch wifi back on, on my vm "super" hub
<davmor2> popey: how you finding it
<popey> only been like that for 10 hours
<popey> will let you know later
<popey> or not if I replace dd-wrt with openwrt
<davmor2> popey: openwrt is a learning curve over dd-wrt but it seems to work much better on my tp-link than dd-wrt was
<popey> yeah, i have two netgears, one has dd-wrt and the other has openwrt
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Tuesday, and happy Hedgehog Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: nothing says hedgehog like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-DPi9UIFTo
<JamesTait> davmor2, I give you https://youtu.be/rZEnWhefCZI
<davmor2> JamesTait: not as good as narwhals
<JamesTait> davmor2, but more hedgehogy.
<davmor2> JamesTait: not as good as narwhals or the badger song
<JamesTait> The badger song came to mind first, but I figured there must be an actual hedgehog one.
<davmor2> JamesTait: doesn't say hedgehog as many times as mine though :P
<davmor2> JamesTait: I have in the back of my head that there is a song that had hedgehogs in it from the 80's I have a feeling though it might of been like part of the wombles song or something crazy like that
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> davmor2: http://www.traditionalmusic.co.uk/song-midis/Hedgehog_Song.htm
<diplo> :P
<diplo> How does something like that stay on the internet :D
<diplo> Supposedly from discworld ?
<awilkins> Yeah
<awilkins> It's hinted at in the books
<awilkins> Only snatches of lyrics
<awilkins> But I think PTerry fans got together on the newsgroups and made these up
<diplo> I've tried reading 2 of his books, failed both so far :/
<awilkins> Which ones?
<awilkins> His earlier work is not as good
<awilkins> Starts getting good around book 4
<diplo> First discworld one and something else that I can remember that I was recommended
<diplo> Ah right, so persistence is key
<awilkins> You can really see the improvement
<diplo> I read 2-3 books a week and some are *REALLY* bad
<diplo> Will try again
<awilkins> They get as good as actually genuinely evoking tears
<awilkins> The first two Discworld ones have some real continuity problems and lots of errors in the printings I have
<diplo> OK, do I *need* to start one #1 ?
<awilkins> Not really
<awilkins> It may help to set the scene and the tone, but he does a good job of re-setting the scene in each Discworld novel
<awilkins> You may miss a few in-jokes
<awilkins> A lot of people love Rincewind but he's a bit of a one-joke character
<diplo> If I remember correctly, I got to a bit in a bar where they meet someone to trade, or they've walked to a hill and someone attacks them ( been a good year or more since I tried! )
<awilkins> You can tell that PTerry transferred his affections to Vimes as his big favourite
<awilkins> The first two read more like a collection of short stories in retrospect
<awilkins> Equal Rites, #3,  introduces one of his more beloved characters, Granny Weatherwax, who gets fleshed out a LOT more later
<awilkins> #4 : Mort, for me is where it really starts to get good
<awilkins> Reaper Man (the next big DEATH one) is wonderful
<diplo> I've got a few of them in epub, will chuck them on the kindle and have a go
<diplo> I read mainly espionage/crime stuff, but have read a few scifi type books. The halo books were suprisingly ok :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<bigcalm> !ping
<lubotu3`> pong!
<Myrtti> morning bigcalm
<diplo> !ding
<lubotu3`> dong
<diplo> Morning bittin-
<bigcalm> Aha, a better server
<bigcalm> !sing
<bigcalm> The server I was on was sending my data but not returning data from other servers
<bigcalm> You could see me talking but I didn't see your responses until many hours later
<diplo> :P
<diplo> Oops, supposed to have said morning bigcalm :D I really can't multitask
<davmor2> morning bigcalm how's life over your way?
<bigcalm> davmor2: The Shrewsbury office was shaking in the wind yesterday. Today I'm at home and feeling less shook up
<bigcalm> davmor2: keeping your sanity?
<davmor2> bigcalm: Sanity that rings a bell, isn't that something normals have? I'm having fun though Honest, just ignore the tic it goes away in the end ;)
<awilkins> Firefox is now annoying me enough to contemplate changing to Chromium
<awilkins> Which is a PITA because it has all my links & bookmarks & passwords & stuff
<zmoylan-pi> they do seem intent on making people switch
<awilkins> It keeps doing this thing where it doesn't repaint the display
<awilkins> You can flip tabs and the title changes, but nothing repaints
<awilkins> I dunno, maybe it's a GPU bug or something
<popey> sounds like a gpu acceleration issue
<awilkins> WebGL is off.
<awilkins> so... meh
<awilkins> I'm on the latest nvidia binaries
<awilkins> Maybe if I turn webgl ON
<awilkins> Or is that nothing to do with the main painting loop?
<zmoylan-pi> i have had very busy pages updating in the background slow the page in front been redrawn
<awilkins> Yeah, I think that may be what's happening
<zmoylan-pi> with tweetdeck i sometimes have to kill the tab
<awilkins> Web twitter
<awilkins> Newspaper websites too
<awilkins> Seem to be really nasty cesspools of terrible performance
<foobarry> where's a good place to buy greetings cards? anyone cheaper than moonpig/funkypigeon?
<awilkins> Just don't participate in the destruction of our planet for a mere sentiment and phone the person to wish them happy <insert event here>?
<foobarry> its the missis
<foobarry> dont think it would go down well
<foobarry> on the other hand i am happy receiving last years card
<zmoylan-pi> print this off at home to save a few pennies... :-) http://platinumlynx.blogspot.ie/2010/02/tescos-value-valentines-card.html
<davmor2> zmoylan-pi: you've not got a valentine have you :P
<MooDoo> http://tescovaluecards.com/ ;)
<Myrtti> lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: I double dare you to give that to your Wife as a serious Valentines card, Don't worry dude I have a net standing by to catch your head ;)
<zmoylan-pi> or a vasectomy done via hobnail boots...
<MooDoo> davmor2: That's more than she'd get any way...we don't do valentine
<davmor2> MooDoo: I know but that would still be an insult for which you would suffer and you know it ;)  As Yoda says Do or Do not there is no try!!!!
<MooDoo> I'll do not then
<MooDoo> :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah my wife and I gave up on it many moons ago because every quadruples around then :)  So we save the money and spend more on birthdays instead :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: we'll both be coming back from france on our birthdays
<diddledan> I've got a weird BT broadbent problem - dad and I both have infinity in our respective homes. when I'm over his I can use DNS via his HomeHub to retreive an address which points to a 10.0.0.0/24 address (in public dns) but doing the same at home I can't get the DNS system to give me the 10.0.0.0/24 response
<diddledan> e.g. from home `dig +short vpn.vpn.bangdynamics.com`: no response. using google's dns `dig +short vpn.vpn.bangdynamics.com @8.8.8.8` reponse: 10.0.0.1
<diddledan> at dad's I get the correct 10.0.0.1 reply from BT DNS
<m0nkey_> reboot your router
<diddledan> we both have HomeHub 5 routers, so it's not a difference in hardware
<_Sponge> redd.it/43u3bg
<diddledan> \o/ spam!
<MooDoo> yay spam spam spam spam spammety spam
<diddledan> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8huXkSaL7o
 * zmoylan-pi wonders what the click rate is for random url shortened link posted by drive by spammer in irc...
<diddledan> in freenode I would imagine it to be low, due to the techy nature of the audience
<zmoylan-pi> offset by ocd nature and curiousity of same... :-)
<diddledan> irc servers with a more moron-focused audience it might be higher
<zmoylan-pi> to the #microsoft channel! ::spinning bat logo::
<diplo> diddledan: BT have major issues it appears
<diplo> Just been on the phone to my dad talking through stuff, decided to check twitter, @BTCare are being hammered from all over the country of people complaining
 * diplo should have checked Twitter first than deal my dad for the last 30/40 mins :D
<zmoylan-pi> but... bt brought you together... :-)
<davmor2> diplo: blames diddledan 's use of dig I would :D
<sve> hey
<sve> can i switch between a 2 bit install and a amd compatible one? via the usb install option?
<davmor2> sve: not with ease, might be easier to back up any files you want and then do a fresh flash
<davmor2> install even
<sve> davmor2: im doing a sideby side install so i can resize partitions after tranfering the files to the new partition
<sve> im using a USB i created with ubootin and im not getting any feedback from the install dialog
<MooDoo> howcy
<daftykins> o/
<\sv> ok so i decided to go fror a fresh install. where to get the Hexchat config file from?
<daftykins> "the hexchat config" being what?
<daftykins> your existing one?
<daftykins> .config/hexchat/ probably
<\sv> ~/.config/hexchat apparenty (after googleing) how to copy this to my external hdd?
<daftykins> are you using a non-GUI boot at the moment or something?
<daftykins> as i find it a bit puzzling how a copy would be a challenge
<daftykins> pressing ctrl+h would show hidden files in the GUI file manager nautilus, allowing you to copy+paste graphically by visiting the .config folder
<\sv> gui
<daftykins> as above then
<\sv> ok thanks, hopfully i can just transfer those into the new install of hexchat
<daftykins> 100% definitely, although install the package first then place the folder
<\sv> im optimistic. this is ubuntu. so.... wish me well
<\sv> lo
<\sv> lol
<daftykins> doesn't matter the OS, they all have their quirks
<\sv> i've copied the files from my homefolder into an archive and copied them accross to the xternalhdd
<\sv> are there any other file or folders i aught to copy?
<daftykins> for hexchat, no.
<\sv> in general though?
<daftykins> an app would not specifically store data in ~/.config/ and then use another path
<daftykins> well you need to state what you want
<daftykins> in general you'd just copy the entire /home/username for a backup
<\sv> :) im switching between 32 bit and t'uver one i cant use a backup file to restore tings can i?
<daftykins> backup of home, yes.
<daftykins> take the whole thing now, worry about the details later
<diddledan> daftykins: where ya been?
<\sv> ok, i know you cant simply upgrade the whole thing and this keeps crashing so hence this fresh install :)
<diddledan> daftykins: did you get lost in the sea?
<\sv> diddledan, daftykins has off being awesome. where else whould they be?
<daftykins> diddledan: hey :) having a break really, had some work to do before Spain then just felt like avoiding the stresses and unpleasant folk we get on here :) ( #ubuntu )
<daftykins> \sv: "has off" ?
<diddledan> lol, fair enough :-)
<\sv> daftykins, off round the world
<daftykins> i don't think i'll hang around, quite enjoying being away :>
<daftykins> \sv: where else what? please try phrasing a complete sentence and then maybe we can respond
<daftykins> there would be nothing else to backup except /home/username/ as mentioned already
<\sv> im making a copy of ./config just in case
<daftykins> but that's a subfolder of /home/username/ ...
<\sv> daftykins, i was saying you are awesome and youve been away from irc as you've been busy being awesome (we have met before)
<daftykins> i'm saying grab the whole path ^_^
<daftykins> oic, hehe - thanks
<\sv> ok bbl
<sebsebseb> hi
<bittin-_> i got british tea :)
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> nothing better than british tea from thailand
<Myrtti> I've got Finnish redbush from... somewhere
<Myrtti> http://www.nordqvist.fi/en/products/the-moomins/all-things-fun-are-good-for-your-tummy.html
 * m0nkey_ tickles diddledan
<diddledan> eep
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-03
<MooDoo> howdy all
<mapps> hi all
<mapps> just finishing the martian
<mapps> pretty good
<MooDoo> matt damon?
<mapps> ja
<mapps> cool film
<MooDoo> yeah very good
<\sv> updated the bios on my asus k53u in the hope it woud enable bluetooth. i know this has bluetooth. but it's not working http://www.ubuntu.com/certification/hardware/201110-9891/
<mapps> ;[
<mapps> what film to watch next hmm#
<knightwise> morning :)
<knightwise> listening to Cory Doctorows pirate cinema :)
<MooDoo> morning knightwise i'm listening to what ever this is on spotify lol
<MooDoo> did I just get kicked then?
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> how are you brobostigon
<brobostigon> half asleep and my eczema could be better, and you?
<MooDoo> brobostigon: in the office since 5:45 so you can quite imagine
<brobostigon> :(
<MooDoo> brobostigon: i'm having a brain f**t, can't remember the ubuntu site to see when I created my account lol :)
<MooDoo> not the wiki, the other one
<brobostigon> oh dear.
<brobostigon> launchpad?
<MooDoo> darn it, that's the one
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> *blush*
<brobostigon> :)
<davmor2> Morning all you Linux funksters
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Wednesday and happy Carrot Cake Day! ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: got you covered dude https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKnoffPV8m0 One singing Carrott :D
<JamesTait> I hope that's the Jasper variety.
<JamesTait> Oh yes!  davmor2, you never fail. â¤
<davmor2> JamesTait: :)
<diddledan> https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2016/02/03/microsoft-acquires-swiftkey-in-support-of-re-inventing-productivity-ambition/
<zmoylan-pi> inserting the w10 sniffers as we speak...
<awilkins> That was my first response
<awilkins> But on reflection it could also be a bid to inflate their patent portfolio so they can continue to profit from Android installs
<zmoylan-pi> people will just swap to something non ms
<Azelphur> Hey folks, I'm having a weird issue with SSH where publickey auth only works if I've logged in with a password recently. Here's the output from ssh -v. Any ideas? http://pastebin.com/v4RL9XN4
<diddledan> Azelphur: encrypted home folder maybe?
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, I think it has encryption
<diddledan> Azelphur: that'll be why then
<Azelphur> any way to fix that?
<diddledan> Don't use an encrypted home folder
<Myrtti> LUKS all the way, babay
<Azelphur> guess I need to disable my encrypted folder some how
<popey> that's easily done
<dogmatic69> Hi all, I just bought a dashcam. Put sd card in it and let it format the thing. Now when I plug it into the pc it wont mount
<dogmatic69> any ideas what could be the issue?
<dogmatic69> I can hear it, pc makes a sound when its inserted/remove
<dogmatic69> removed..
<dogmatic69> In the logs I can see it showing up... "mmc0: new high speed SDHC card at address 0001"
<dogmatic69> mmc0:0001  31.2 GiB
<dogmatic69> and similar when removed
<zmoylan-pi> ntfs format?
<dogmatic69> no idea what, dashcam formatted it
<dogmatic69> there does not seem to be any errors in the logs
<diddledan> dogmatic69: sudo blkid -s /dev/mmc0
<diddledan> (I think it's -s)
<diddledan> I would guess it's exFAT
<diddledan> ubuntu can handle ntfs fine so I would have expected it to work had it been that
<dogmatic69> ok, I just stuck it in windows and its strange.
<dogmatic69> the dashcam has made some strange partitions and a single exe which is a pretty cool viewer for the video
<mappps> hi all
<dogmatic69> integrates google maps, g-sensor output (x, y, z), speed etc...
<dogmatic69> probably 0 chance of working on linux :(
<dogmatic69> # blkid /dev/mmcblk0
<dogmatic69> /dev/mmcblk0: PTTYPE="dos"
<diddledan> dogmatic69: try /dev/mmcblk0p1
<diddledan> or maybe mmcblk0a
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-04
<mapps> hello:D
<zmoylan-1i> o/
<mapps> good tv night
<mapps> suits and sunny in philly
<mapps> watched any good films recently zmoylan-pi/?
<MooDoo> morning all
<knightwise> morning
 * popey stabs his router
<davmor2> Morning all
<davmor2> popey: hey you broke it play nice :P
 * popey unstabs router
<popey> finally managed to get openwrt on it!
 * popey is happy
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Thursday, and happy Create a Vacuum Day! ð
<MooDoo> morning everyone in case i missed you earlier
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4NGoS330HE gotcha covered dude
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<MooDoo> morning brobostigon
<brobostigon> morning MooDoo
<MooDoo> :)
<brobostigon> :)
<bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
<brobostigon> morning bigcalm
<bigcalm> o/
<brobostigon> :)
<knightwise> Heyzzz everyone
<MooDoo> hay, wow my server is getting smacked by chinese ip's :)
<davmor2> oh you are popular
<MooDoo> lol
<MooDoo> stopped it now though, installed fail2ban :)
<davmor2> yeah that helps a lot :)
<MooDoo> just watching the log, seeing it ban things :) lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: yeah I reckon this is actually what takes out websites now, it's the fail2ban log taking up all the hdd space :)
<MooDoo> lol :)
<MooDoo> davmor2: I'll tell you in the morning as it only seems to happen at night/early morning
<moreati> Morning all, a popularity question: what virtualisation frontend do you use on your desktop? VirtualBox? Gnome Boxes? virt-manager?
<MooDoo> virt-manager here
<davmor2> moreati: kvm from the terminal be a man ;)
<Myrtti> virtmanager
<moreati> davmor2: as a small furry creature from Alpha Centauri I resent that
<foobarry> chrome
<foobarry> accessing vsphere
<foobarry> and vagrant for local stuffs
<moreati> foobarry: what backend are you using with vagrant?
<foobarry> virtualsucks
<davmor2> moreati: depends what you are doing, if it is just firing up machines or want decent amount of options, kvm/virt-manager are perfect and light weight, if you are just playing about with various desktops then Gnome boxes is perfect and if you want proper access to hardware in the vm then virtualbox still does it slightly better than virt-manager (so ideal for windows for a gameos for example)
<foobarry> i spin up a vagrant puppet master
<foobarry> then spin up test machines that get puppeted by it
<moreati> davmor2: ty, does testdrive still get used?
<davmor2> moreati: also if you are not caring about the startup of the linux environment lxd is really light for linux system no windows available for that though
<moreati> davmor2: 'no windows' as in nothing with a GUI, or no MS Windows?
<davmor2> moreati: ms windows
<davmor2> moreati: LXD uses the system kernel and install a system in a container on top of that so you can only have linux systems on a linux box
<moreati> davmor2: thanks, I've been meaning to take a closer look.
<davmor2> moreati: https://linuxcontainers.org/
<Myrtti> well that's some news there
<Myrtti> Matt LeBlanc for Top Gear
<popey> I thought they were getting some member of the public to do it
<popey> They had a whole application process
<davmor2> popey: he's public he hasn't acted for years ;)
<popey> er
<popey> http://www.sho.com/sho/episodes/home
<davmor2> see no acting :P
<popey> heh
<davmor2> popey: I like Matt really cause he never really takes himself seriously and is always up for a laugh, I've seen him in a couple of interviews and he is howling with laughter :)
<popey> yeah, could work.
<MooDoo> hay all, just a question about the next LTS release, I read some where that you can move the unity bar to the bottom of the screen, is this available now?
<davmor2> MooDoo: it is see softpedia for instructions there is no gui for it yet
<MooDoo> ok thanks mate
<MooDoo> unity 7.2?
<davmor2> 7.4
<MooDoo> that's what i meant lol
<davmor2> MooDoo: Version: 7.4.0+16.04.20151218-0ubuntu2 to be more specific :)
<MooDoo> yeah i'll upgrade and play this evening
<awilkins> Anyone know of a way that you can extract the API metadata from e.g. a Ruby REST API ?
<awilkins> Essentially looking for an automated way of generating call stubs for a given language wrapper
<MooDoo> any one use a m.2 drive in their laptop?
<popey> No, I have an mSATA which pre-dates m.2
<popey> much the same thing though
<MooDoo> just looking into them, but now can't see the point seeing as I can just get a regular 2.5 ssd for same price
<diddledan> MooDoo: m.2 is mucho faster
<directhex> maybe.
<directhex> see, there are three problems with m.2
<directhex> 1) capacity. nobody's making m.2 drives >500gb
<MooDoo> yeah i'd have to get one with a 2.5 convertor bay for my lappy
<directhex> 2) cost. an m.2 costs twice as much as a sata, for the same capacity
<directhex> 3) cost. an nvme m.2 stick costs twice as much as an ahci m.2 stick, and you need nvme for m.2 to be actually usefully faster
<diplo> I'd like to just say that systemd is making my head want to explode :)
<Myrtti> God I hate the Vistaprint wedding flower advert
<diplo> I expect it'll all sync in soon but blimey :P
<diddledan> diplo: the problem I have with systemd is discoverability of the services
<diddledan> like hth was I supposed to know that openvpn has to be started with the openvpn@<configfilename>.service?
<diddledan> in the past I just started it with openvpn as the service name
<diplo> :/ I've not come across that yet. Basically trying to get some archaic old start up scripts working and loading them all
<awilkins> Worked out what's causing Firefox to freeze I think
<awilkins> It's the website of The Independent
<awilkins> Not visited it today, no freezes
<awilkins> Visited it yesterday on purpose to see if freezes happened a lot, they did
<zmoylan-pi> some javascript blocker and see if that helps?
<awilkins> Yeah, I might try that if I keep wanting to read things on there
<zmoylan-pi> i did have a nice one that had buttons for javascript, flash and a few other plugins that was on status bar at bottom a while back...
<awilkins> Oh hahahahah, I wanted to use Mylyn on our internal issue tracker
<awilkins> I think the version of JIRA they have is so old that is has no REST API
<awilkins> Ha, it's from 2008
<awilkins>  /o\
<foobarry> can firefox do html5 videos on youtube yet?
<foobarry> yes foobarry , you have to go to youtube.com/html5
<foobarry> ta
<davmor2> foobarry: what foobarry said
<popey> https://discourse.mozilla-community.org/t/firefox-os-connected-devices-announcement/6864
<popey> well, that's dead then
<MooDoo> https://discourse.mozilla-community.org/t/firefox-os-connected-devices-announcement/6864
<MooDoo> oops
<foobarry> can ubuntu run on the mozphone?
<davmor2> popey: didn't take long :)
<popey> Which Moz phone? There's a bunch of them
<foobarry> oh
<foobarry> what now then? unsupported bricks?
<popey> yup
<popey> They tried to go too big, too fast.
<diplo> :/
<popey> Had high return rates, which kills devices.
<foobarry> they are a massive money burning org
<popey> Yeah.
<diddledan> "masked gunmen on the run after drinks company boss shot dead" <-- I'm guessing it was employees who got passed-over for promotion too many times (ref: http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/masked-gunmen-on-run-after-drinks-company-boss-shot-dead-in-robbery-bid/ar-BBp7hGw)
<foobarry> is it possible to password protect a session from being interacted with, but still show the screen content? i'm thinking for a screen on my desk that is tailing logs
<MooDoo> http://damien.krotkine.com/2011/09/01/protect-a-screen-session-with-a-password.html
<foobarry> that locks the screen session
<foobarry> which is handy but i'm after a way to show data on screen but virtually remove keybaord
<diplo> Physically remove keyboard instead :)
<diplo> Sounds like you're trying to fix a problem with staff/students not taking notice of something?
<foobarry> i want to tail logs but nobody gets to ctrl-c and have root
<diplo> Create a group and add them to the group perms for logs in question ?
<zmoylan-pi> put it behind perspex and watch as they and use touchscreen that is no longer there... :-)
<zmoylan-pi> *they try and use
<DJones> Can anybody reommend a cheap mobile sim for a galaxy s2 tab, probably only data use only, so maybe a pay as you go that can be topped up
<DJones> Just "won" one through work with LTE support so looking at a mobile data plan
<davmor2> DJones: for mobile data 3 is about your best option
<zmoylan-pi> you'd think there would be an up to date graph of all the available options per country listing the various offerings
<DJones> davmor2: Cheers
<DJones> Don't even know if it works as a phone as well, or just as a tablet
<DJones> davmor2: Thats nice, 12Gb data valid for 12 months for Â£30
<zmoylan-pi> nice
<popey> DJones, agreed on 3 mobile sim
<popey> I got one for a month of unlimited 3g while I was in the USA
<popey> worked a treat
<Bull> Hi, i have problems to adjust network manager, i have nt a eth cable but i have a Cd
<diddledan> COFFEE
<zmoylan-pi> cheesecake
<diddledan> aww, no fair!
<zmoylan-pi> well if you have your star trek replicator online i can send you the pattern matrix :-)
<diddledan> :-o AN UBUTAB HAS BEEN LAUNCHED!
<diddledan> with BQ
<diddledan> the Aquaris M10 Ubuntu Edition
<zmoylan-pi> i'm just clearing down my 7" android tablet as i use it a lot less
<zmoylan-pi> using a cheapo 4.5" phone instead for viewing tv/movies and as pedometer when walking
<diddledan> wait, you're not using a nokia?
<zmoylan-pi> but a 7" ubuntu tablet might be just what i want
<zmoylan-pi> oh i don't use it as phone, i use nokia for that. and fm radio, and web, and email, and rss, and mp3s...
<zmoylan-pi> the cheapo is around 70% battery when i get home just using it as pedometer...
<zmoylan-pi> whereas the nokia will have more juice doing a lot more
<diddledan> ref: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/02/04/canonical-reinvents-the-personal-mobile-computing-experience/
<diddledan> pedometer, a device for measuring a person's propensity to being a dirty old man
<diddledan> actually such a device would be useful for the celebrity witchunt
<zmoylan-pi> explodes if you approach the bbc building?
<zmoylan-pi> had to be a pedometer with configuration options as my limp throws off many simpler models
<diddledan> sounds like norse the security company is fraudulent
<diddledan> and their site is offline
<diddledan> oh it loaded now - http://map.norsecorp.com/
<diddledan> I'm hungry
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-05
<Azelphur> Can anyone figure out what's wrong with the SSL on https://gitlab.home.azelphur.com/ ? I'm using CloudFlare and LetsEncrypt
<diddledan> Azelphur: try without cloudflare
<Azelphur> diddledan: it works without cloudflare, should have mentioned
<diddledan> do requests show in your logs?
<Azelphur> no
<diddledan> hmm
<Azelphur> diddledan: actually, they do show up, sorry seems like f5 in the browser doesn't trigger a view but re-opening the tab does
<Azelphur> which is weird, so seems like cloudflare is passing it to my site, but then being unhappy with my cert for some reason
<diddledan> can you share your config?
<Azelphur> my nginx config?
<diddledan> yup, if that's doing the ssl
<Azelphur> diddledan: http://pastebin.com/D8Mq1juM
<diddledan> was that a paste fail or have you really got the same config 8 times?
<diddledan> oh sorry I see the names are different
<diddledan> ignore that
<diddledan> cloudflare works with owncloud
<Azelphur> diddledan: indeed it does
<diddledan> owncloud.azelphur I mean
<diddledan> I think it might be cloudflare - have you toggled the orange cloud off, waited a minute or so and then back on again?
<diddledan> just thinking that might reset things
<Azelphur> diddledan: yea, I've turned it off and on a couple times before while trying to debug this
<diddledan> your emby server works too, which suggests that cloudflare is fine with multiple.level.domain.names
<Azelphur> indeed
<diddledan> oh that's not going via cloudflare
<Azelphur> ah, yea it's not, that streams video so no cloudflare there
<diddledan> might be worth trying a hostname one-level instead of two.levels
<diddledan> leave the two.level and check it tomorrow (sometimes cloudflare takes a while to update it's ssl certs for new hostnames IIRC)
<Azelphur> yea, maybe leaving it till tomorrow will make it come to life
<diddledan> although IMO if cloudflare hasn't set-up a certificate for a particular domain yet it should bypass it's own servers and point directly to yours
<diddledan> rather that than just failing
<diddledan> yeah, this is how I feel: https://twitter.com/shanselman/status/695408895011885061
<MooDoo> morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<mapps> hi all
<MooDoo> :)
<MooDoo> oooo my phone contract runs out in July, hmmm ubuntu phone next?
 * zmoylan-pi uses jedi mind trick... ::waves hand:: you want a good solid dumbphone...
<knightwise> hey peeps
<MooDoo> zmoylan-pi: to be honest, you're right, i only need one that'll make phone calls and text lol
<MooDoo> howdy knightwise
<zmoylan-pi> and you get to win phone conkers every time :-P
<MooDoo> lol
<zmoylan-pi> and no longer need to know were the nearest usb port charger is
<zmoylan-pi> or carry cable for charging
<PokeAcer> I'd prefer an Android over an Ubuntu phone
<MooDoo> well it's either ubuntu or a nexus :D
<PokeAcer> I got the stickers from Peter today
 * zmoylan-pi knocks MooDoo out with sharp tap from nokia and super glues a dumbphone in their hand...
<PokeAcer> Now my laptop has an ubuntu key, and ubuntu stickers
<PokeAcer> Windows desktop however
<PokeAcer> Because I use my laptop for when not at home
<DJones> Morning
<DJones> Sheesh, that'd be a powerful laptiop/hoverboard/electric hob http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/02/05/eurcom_sky_x9w/
<DJones> Maxing out the spec to top of the range everything without an o/s/case etc, comes to over Â£6K
<MooDoo> DJones: yeah just watched a video on that, RAID 10 SSD :)
<DJones> The amount of heat that must generate would make certain you wouldn't set it on your lap
<MooDoo> it is marketed as a workstation not a laptop
<DJones> Thats true, although still in a laptop case, weighing 10lbs would certainly make you want to use it on a desk
<zmoylan-pi> i make a lapdesk by using 2 sheets of plywood same size as laptop.  joined by shoelaces they hinge around laptop in bag to protect it and provide a nice comfy platform for laptop to fit on lap
<DJones> I've still got my old Dell Inspiron 8100, that wasn't comfortable to have on my lap and that was 8lbs in weight
<zmoylan-pi> also works when using laptop on soft furnishings like bed not to have it rest on cloth blocking airvents
<zmoylan-pi> also with netbooks that aren't wide enough to work on lap the placement on lapdesk means it fits more comfortably
<knightwise> Not a bad idea
<knightwise> could use it for my Surface pro 4
<DJones> My wife could do with something like that, she always complains that her laptop shuts down, I keep telling her not to block the vents with a pillow or quilt and it won't overheat
<zmoylan-pi> and plywood is less slippy on lap than smooth bottom of laptop so less likely to slip off and break
<zmoylan-pi> i think i have pics somewhere... ::goes to check::
<zmoylan-pi> pics found from 2009 when i made first one, uploading...
<zmoylan-pi> lapdesk from plywood that folds and protects laptop in transit http://imgur.com/a/lMA4T
<davmor2> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: looks pretty cool. Love the laces
<zmoylan-pi> i drilled far too many holes on first one.  works well.  the weight of netbook in middle makes it cantilever on lap nicely.  can also use extra space for mini mouse if required
<knightwise> That is cool + i love the extra protection it gives you
<zmoylan-pi> i hate trackpads :-)
<knightwise> Love using a mouse too
<zmoylan-pi> simple ideas are usually best and the plywood cost me <â¬5
<zmoylan-pi> the one i currently use fits inside netbook softpouch with netbook
<davmor2> MooDoo: me owld mucka 'ow am ya on this happy happy friday
<zmoylan-pi> just i have lost 1 laptop on dublin bus when on stairs and emergency braking threw me down stairs and i clipped my backpack with handrail on corner of laptop
<knightwise> yep , extra protection never hurts
<MooDoo> davmor2: crackin mate, just waiting for my friday bacon sarnie, then off home at 11:45 :D
<davmor2> MooDoo: I don't know these part timers
<knightwise> Gonna see if I can throw Crouton on my old chromebook and dual boot it into Ubuntu with LXDE
<knightwise> that way i'll always have a cheap linux laptop lying around in the car.
<knightwise> without being overly worried of it getting stolen or something
<davmor2> MooDoo: When I were a lad, You got up 3 hours before you went to bed, You licked the broken glass from the street, Worked down t'mine for 16 hours, then came home to a belt lashin' from your dad, before you started your second job
<MooDoo> davmor2: luxury :)
<knightwise> For now I just SSH into my pi at home from my Surface pro 4 at work.
<knightwise> gives me a geeky sandbox in a dready corporate environment :)
<MooDoo> knightwise: ooo I was thinking of a pi for ssh'ing into and having irssi/screen running on it, might be a bit cheaper power wise than the desktop unit I have running currently
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Friday, and happy Doodle Day! ð
<knightwise> MooDoo: that is what I do
<knightwise> my pi runs irssi, youtube-dl, rtv and all of my "online presence" apps.
<zmoylan-pi> there's always the new googleless chromebook os... http://www.nexedi.com/blog/NXD-Document.Blog.Nayu.Os.Introduction/
<knightwise> its the only machine in the house that is not powered down between 11pm and 6 am
<MooDoo> knightwise: pi2?
<zmoylan-pi> my pi runs 24x7 on phone charger in kitchen... great little machine...
<zmoylan-pi> wow apple seem to be trying to kill the 3rd party repair market... http://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/feb/05/error-53-apple-iphone-software-update-handset-worthless-third-party-repair
<knightwise> MooDoo: yep
<knightwise> pretty snappy
<knightwise> zmoylan-pi: mine too :) plugged into the back of my ISP's router
<knightwise> via a usb connector there :)
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<davmor2> JamesTait: gatcha covered https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEjUfu9-W-w
<ujjain> can a landlord alraedy have viewings in my apartment 7 weeks in advance?
<Laney> I don't think they can require them at any time really
<Laney> unless your agreement says something about it
<davmor2> ujjain: yes, if you have given notice they will want new tenants in the day after you leave basically so they will most likely show it while you are still there as it saves them staging it as long as you aren't too messy :)
<Laney> doesn't really matter what they want
<Laney> it's about what they have the right to, which is probably not to have viewings unless you agreed different in the contract
<ujjain> haha it's very messy
<ujjain> i dont have anything about viewings in my contract
<ujjain> but i'm sure there is something in the law
<Laney> don't think so
<Laney> let me know if you find it
<arsenip> arent landlords allowed access ot the property? but usually they must provide notice
<foobarry> yes
<Laney> not for any reason
<foobarry> caught short and need a dump
<foobarry> and to read the meter
<foobarry>  /replace the fridge
<Laney> 24 hours notice
<Laney> even then can be refused
<foobarry> i wonder if assange has long hair and big beard by now
<foobarry> or tunnelled out
<awilkins> I wonder what amenities Equador provide for him
<awilkins> I'd assume that the Embassy has a pretty good chef
<foobarry> has it cost the UK anything?
<foobarry> did they put coppers outside?
<foobarry> he probably saw just as much daylight as when a basement dweller
<awilkins> The UK spent, what, Â£13M on the police operations?
<foobarry> thats what papers say
<foobarry> but really?
<awilkins> Multiple coppers with overtime?
<awilkins> Probably paid some lawyers some money too
<awilkins> I'd imagine those aren't insane numbers
<diddledan> https://threatpost.com/google-safe-browsing-extends-to-deceptive-embedded-content/116135/
<awilkins> I like that
<awilkins> There will be people that go "bah! you content fascist pigs, warning people about visiting torrent sites!"
<awilkins> Because that's where I see those ads the most
<awilkins> Although also on Sourceforge and the like
<awilkins> Yet more confirmation that SF are scum now is that they allow ads like that to run on their site
<foobarry> sf got sold
<bashrc_> I don't think SourceForge will be able to recover whatever reputation they had
<diddledan> it's annoying that some projects still insist on being hosted there
<diddledan> e.g. filezilla
<diddledan> (not that I use filezilla, but it's a popular project nontheless)
<foobarry> better than google code
<ali1234> oh look, firefox is using 11TB of memory again
<diddledan> o_O
<diddledan> that's.. a lot
<diddledan> I haven't even got that much fixed storage
<ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/elS4VXX.png
<ali1234> http://i.imgur.com/EFJ9f94.png
<zmoylan-pi> time to strap on the sincalir ram pack...
<zmoylan-pi> and hope there's no wobble...
<diddledan> that looks fairly normal to me
<diddledan> (not the 11TB, donno where that is coming from, but the actual usage)
<ali1234> sadly it looks fairly normal to me too
 * foobarry looks around
 * m0nkey_ hides
 * foobarry waves
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> hey folks, hope you're all well
<Azelphur> <blatant advertising> me and my friends club together and rent a dedi with 7x1.5TB HDDs and use it as offsite backup space, if anyone is interested we have 1TB available for â¬5.47/mo (Would be a VPS with 1GB RAM), could also potentially get more space if someone wants more
<Seeker`> my, wife uses, too many commas, in the wrong, places and writes, very long sentences, and it's really hard to get her, to not write them, and I've told her to actually try reading, what she writes out loud, so she will see how stupid it is, but everything I proof read for her, mainly job applications, still have, the same thing
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> that was painful ;)
<Seeker`> thought it might be :P
<Seeker`> It's hard to ignore excess commas
<daftykins> i hope the "their/they're/there" are correct
<daftykins> that one always trips something in my head ;)
<daftykins> i can only suggest avoiding trying to mark teenagers writing to avoid greater crimes :)
<Azelphur> Does anyone here use borgbackup? I've been trying to migrate from Attic but it has caused me nothing but problems
<daftykins> sounds like they ought to step up their assimilation
<Azelphur> Indeed :P
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-06
<diddledan> yawn
<daftykins> 'allo sir
<diddledan> morning
<daftykins> funky patterns as usual? :)
<diddledan> yeah, I had a 4hour nap from 8pm
<foobarry> Azelphur: seemed quite popular on a reddit thread i read the other day
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperEngineer> Having done a complete reinstal a couple of weeks ago I found the most annoying thing was redownloading all games from Steam.
<SuperEngineer> Would it be safe/better/useable to shrink Ubuntu partion, create a Steam partition and download to that in future
<SuperEngineer> [or is this better asked on the very quiet, seldom monitored #Ubuntu-Steam?]
<SuperEngineer> ... and, I wonder, would it be possible to move current downloaded games to that partition and point Steam at it now?
<SuperEngineer> [asked on there anyway- busy reminding myself, "patience is a virtue" ;-)
 * m0nkey_ tickles diddledan 
<Azelphur> Question, how would I calculate actual usable space given a RAID5 array formatted in ext4?
<penguin42> I think you have to split those as two separate questions
<mapps> hola
<penguin42> hey
<mapps> im in sevilla yay
<penguin42> with oranges?
<mapps> si
<mapps> back to gib on monday;[
<mapps> i pay for the mobile wifi
<mapps> 11 euros a day:)
<mapps> cant live without internet
<penguin42> ouch!
<penguin42> that's a lot, I think it only normally costs me 3-5e in Belgium or Germany when I've been there for a few days
<mapps> i think its ok
<mapps> but hold up
<mapps> we buy mobile wifi so we can use it on 2 devices
<yahya> I have a 4gb usb stick which is encrypted that I am trying to access, I know the passphrase and I believe it was LUKS encrypted. I recently cleaned out my laptop and installed fresh ubuntu desktop version on my laptop. I have been having trouble accessing my usb stick ever since.
<mapps> i already pay roaming:P
<mapps> i pau Â£25 for 1gb data roaming
<yahya> http://paste.ubuntu.com/14944705/
<mapps> and when i cross into spain it doent work..itsper country
<yahya> the pastebin shows the error message
<yahya> I have installed lvm2 but still get same error. can anyone help?
<penguin42> mapps: I'm on t-mobile, PAYG - when I switch on after landing I get a 'you're abroad - select one of these links' and it charges me 3/5e for I think 100MB for one day
<penguin42> mapps: not a vast amount, but enough to keep me sane in between finding wifi I can leach off
<mapps> i live abroad though penguin42:)
<mapps> im with ee as i get free calls to eu..so free calls to spain/gib/uk - mos numbers in gib
<penguin42> nod
<mapps> so  it works ok for me..i see people have to topup in spain and gib
<mapps> i dont:P
<mapps> i go to czech and same all calls free
#ubuntu-uk 2016-02-07
<m0nkey_> Should be interesting. Seems that Windows 10 is finally getting ANSI escape codes in console mode.
<m0nkey_> http://www.nivot.org/blog/post/2016/02/04/Windows-10-TH2-(v1511)-Console-Host-Enhancements
<\sv> helo
<brobostigon> morning boys ans girls.
<zmoylan-pi> looks like spring has sprung finally... at least till the next storm hits in a few days http://www.carrollsirishgifts.com/livedublinwebcam
<SuperEngineer> Bit windy today, not the best day to have done what I got away with [no power cuts]
<MartijnVdS> you got away with no power cuts?
<SuperEngineer> I have shrunk main partition, created a games partition, redownloaded games to it.
<MartijnVdS> ah partition work
<MartijnVdS> always exciting :)
<SuperEngineer> ...&, yup, no power cuts [lot of building going on locally - lots of exposed things that shouldn't be] - 2 power cuts last week alone
<SuperEngineer> partitioning during possible cuts... not recommended fotr those with poorly hearts ;-)
<MartijnVdS> well there's the UPS route
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, all UPS contributions welcome!
<SuperEngineer> [normal delivery will do]
<SuperEngineer> [UPS = u'll probably seriouslyregretnothavingonesoon]
<MartijnVdS> SuperEngineer: it's pronounced "OOPS"
<SuperEngineer> or "Whoops" - if power cut had occurred
<SuperEngineer> [well, that's the polite version]
<penguin42> why dont small UPSs these days let you attach a solar panel?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: because a solar panel won't be enough?
<MartijnVdS> though my laptop charger is 45W and 45W of solar panel can be made in a reasonable size these days
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, because solar panels are big and superglue won't hold them onto the UPS?
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Right but it should give you some and it seems like the easy place to merge a solar installation in?
<MartijnVdS> penguin42: what about power outages at night though
<MartijnVdS> *lunar panels*!
<penguin42> MartijnVdS: Oh I mean it has a mains input as well, but if it's got solar power coming in then it takes the power from that
<SuperEngineer> Isn't that more of a solar array's job, a few solar panels - big battery storage needed for UPS
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: But if you've got a solar panel on your building then it seems silly to charge it's own batteries then invert that back to mains and then use that to charge a UPS that converts it back to 12v on the batteries to invert it back to mains
<MartijnVdS> There was this guy in my town who's converted his whole house to 12V only
<MartijnVdS> 12V-DC*
<MartijnVdS> sadly, he was also a mad conspiracy theory kind of guy, and blew up himself and most of his building
<SuperEngineer> penguin42, I was thinking of getting the UPS charged via solar panels - battery backup needed for charge during low power
<penguin42> haha
<penguin42> SuperEngineer: Right, that's what I was after
<SuperEngineer> I once did a clean up of a Windows system for a chap who was rather "proud" of his home built UPS
<SuperEngineer> ...a load of car batteries!
<SuperEngineer> His system was full of chkdsk files :-D
<MartijnVdS> and a 555 tuned to 50Hz? :P
<penguin42> haha
<SuperEngineer> [& if he only realised how much flamable gas was being released in that room with his pc & car batteries!
<SuperEngineer> ...didn't manage to convince him of his
<SuperEngineer> stupidity
<SuperEngineer> [a person who was 1/ big headed, 2/ stupid]
<SuperEngineer> Anyways, a question... [back to my games partition]. I want to do a complete /home reinstal for 16.04
<SuperEngineer> ...will Steam, if pointed at my Games partition, pick up the downloaded games?
<MartijnVdS> You may have to re-click "Download game" but it'll complete after a checksum verification
<SuperEngineer> [... probably gonna have to wait to find out the hard way]  ;-)
<SuperEngineer> MartijnVdS, good news, thanks
<SuperEngineer> Dear BBC weather, I know it's gonna get nasty - I was talking Steam, not Storm!  ;-)
<penguin42> haha
 * zmoylan-pi nurses hot mug of coffee after long walk outside in wind and rain and cold
<SuperEngineer> [& hangs wellies up to dry somewhere not "upside down over bed", I hope]
<zmoylan-pi> nah, i never liked wearing wellies... mucked around on too many boats and wellies were 'bad' as they would slow you down in a pinch
<penguin42> :also never liked wellies, I tend to wear steel toed boots in the winter all the time
<zmoylan-pi> steel toed shoes especially around repairing pcs... the one time i didn't i had a desk collapse and server with twin redundant power transformers land on my foot...
<penguin42> I just started wearing them because 1) I like to have water proof shoes in wet manchester winters  2) I like to have the room to wiggle my toes around    - but yes they are nice when dealing with heavy kit
<penguin42>  'Europe' are going to make a fortune on 'The final countdown'   when they actually get around to a referendum
<zmoylan-pi> you can look forward to extensive coverage of all the fringe looper parties...
<zmoylan-pi> it'll be like spode in jeeves and wooster all over again...
<gebbione> hi all. is anyone experiencing sudden kill and logout from the desktop session? (14.04) what is the best way to investigate
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-30
<SuperMatt> morning
<diplo> Morning all
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> Today feels like a good day for an uprising
 * popey rises up
<SuperMatt> I have a feeling that's just you getting out of bed
 * zmoylan-1i hits the snooze button and waits for the next revolution...
<popey> SuperMatt: nah, been up since 8 ish :)
<davmor2> SuperMatt: you would be wrong that would be him off foraging for Coffee to stop him going back to bed :D
<davmor2> SuperMatt: that or his bedcover has been printed to look like his office and he has bee deceiving us for years......come to think of it that cat hasn't moved in a while ;)
<SuperMatt> my cat sits in the same place on my bed all the time, so the cat might not be printed
<SuperMatt> I'm sure if food wasn't so important to him, the cat would sleep on my side of the bed 24/7
<zmoylan-pi> and the litter box...
<SuperMatt> well, you remove the problem of food, and you remove the litter box requirement
<zmoylan-pi> but you have a starved unhappy cat who looks at you like you're a roast chicken for some reason...
<foobarry> no uprisings until james tait tell us its uprising day
<SuperMatt> WHEN IS UPRISING DAY?
<zmoylan-pi> jan 1st. we all have great plans for that day
<foobarry> ok google, when is uprising day
<zmoylan-pi> 'google has reported you to the proper authorities, please remain were you are till they come and collect you'
<SuperMatt> Please, JamesTait, tell us it is uprising day
<JamesTait> Good morning all!  Happy Monday, and happy Bubble Wrap Appreciation Day! ð
<SuperMatt> All right, I'll go with that. I'll wrap myself in bubble wrap, rather than deal with our adminitrations lack of action against trump
<JamesTait> SuperMatt, I was thinking we could actually wrap Trump in bubble wrap. Lots of it. Seal it. Lock him in a bunker for the next four years.
<foobarry> guess what
<foobarry> i'm not reading or watching the news or twitters
<foobarry> i have no idea what trump is doing.
<foobarry> my wife wanted to tell me and got very annoyed when i said i didn't want to know
<foobarry> i'll find out later during the year if whatever it is happens
<popey> uhm
<popey> "if"
<popey> it already happend.
<zmoylan-pi> we've moved a smidge beyond 'give him a chance' to 'out the door, to the left, one pitchfork each'
<foobarry> i dunno. whatever it is , i'm sure my elected representatives are on the case. no need for me to join the collective worry club
<foobarry> however something interesting i noticed
<zmoylan-pi> yeah... about that... your elected officals seem to be tripping over themselves to suck up to the eejit
<foobarry> i logged out of fb app on my phone. not logged via browser either. after 2 weeks i started getting "foobarry you have 15 new notifications" notifcations on the phone
<foobarry> trying to open the app gives a login/password prompt
<foobarry> so the app stays logged in, even though it presetns a logged out impression to you
<foobarry> i didn't clear data/cache , but will try that next time
<zmoylan-pi> well... facebook... were privacy goes to die...
<foobarry> yeah, but this is well shady
<zmoylan-pi> so... normal facebook behaviour then :-P
<foobarry> oh and mobile notifications are turned off
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, android notifications are a bit broken... i have a lenovo tablet which sent me a notification for a paid upgrade to touchplus x, some tat shovelled on by lenovo with no way to remove or even block notifications from and an app i've never used
<foobarry> i'm running cuanogen, no bundled guff
<zmoylan-pi> i'm going to have to look at alternative roms to  remove the tat
<foobarry> lineage is released for my phone now
 * diplo googles lineage
<diplo> I'm guessing cyageon rename but unsure
<zmoylan-pi> cyanogen imploded and lineage is the phoenix
<diplo> I really need to wipe my phone and my dads at some point
<diplo> Might as well do it with lineage I guess
<davmor2> diplo: I'd make sure there is a rom first ;)
<davmor2> diplo: numbers are low still currently
<diplo> Ah I guess they're having to rebrand them all
<diplo> Seems to be..
<zmoylan-pi> i think they have to recompile them all as the cyanogen roms are not their property
<davmor2> JamesTait: just remember you did this to yourself https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv3dRgXX_dM
<reinoso> Hi. I'm trying to install Lubuntu in a laptop that had windows before. It is an AIRIS N920, very old. "WARNING: PAE	 disabled. Use parameter 'forcepae' to enable at your own risk! This kernel requires the following features not present on the CPU: pae. Unable to boot - please use a kernel appropriate for your CPU
<matt11235> reinoso: I don't think that 32 bit cpus without PAE are supported anymore, what version of Lubuntu are you trying?
<reinoso> hmm the one i am using on 'this' computer actually ...
<reinoso> last one i believe
<reinoso> i only downloaded it in to an ISO then on a pen drive 2 weeks ago
<matt11235> can you try lubuntu 12.04 instead?
<reinoso> i guess, if that is the only option ...
<reinoso> but 12.04 sounds like a very old version?
<reinoso> is it because this laptop where i am trying to install it is too old?
<matt11235> yes it's old but I think it's still supported, and yes.
<reinoso> supported .. but it will not work unless i try 12.04 instead of the latest version?
<matt11235> I can't find any information on your laptop online so the best thing to do is to just try it and see if it works
<zmoylan-pi> run as live distro rather than installing you mean
<reinoso> i get the same result when trying to run as a live distro ...
<reinoso> but thanks matt11235 and zmoylan-pi
<reinoso> seems I will need to download a whole lubuntu again,  this time 5 years old... weird
<matt11235> it's an LTS release so I think it'll still get updates for the next few months.
<zmoylan-pi> http://askubuntu.com/questions/641767/warning-pae-disabled-use-parmeter-forcepae-to-enable-at-your-own-risk
<matt11235> zmoylan-pi: i think that only works with Pentium M cpus
 * brobostigon is back.
<SebthreeBQM10HD> hi
<daftykins> aww yes i'm being refunded Â£500 for my delayed flights back in September \o/
<daftykins> reached my final destination over 6hrs later, so now i get Â£500 back from the initial ~Â£750 odd flights, pretty good i'd say!
<zmoylan-pi> but isn't it worth less now that 500 quid? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> think of all the extra weetabix you could have bought in september... almost a full box... :-P
<daftykins> technically the reimbursal is 600 euros ;) as it's an EU refund law
<zmoylan-pi> there'll be none of that post brexit
<daftykins> not in the EU here chief
<daftykins> oh i see, no... probably not
<zmoylan-pi> you'll have to go cap in hand to your betters and remember to tug your forelock before begging justice
<diddledan> zmoylan-pi: you forgot to push up your bra
 * zmoylan-pi belts diddledan with handbag...
<daftykins> silly diddledan, he burnt that
<diddledan> handbags at dawn?
 * diddledan plays the spaghetti western musics
<zmoylan-pi> fair enough, removes brick and reaches for the box of lead scraps to fill it...
 * diddledan puts spaghetti in his
<diddledan> can't have a spaghetti western duel without spaghetti!
<daftykins> mom's spaghetti
 * zmoylan-pi removes lead and in honour of spaghetti western ideal replaces with pasta dinosaur shapes
<diddledan> \o/
#ubuntu-uk 2017-01-31
<diplo> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<SuperMatt> Morning all
<SuperMatt> So, with the rising tide of ridiculousness in politics, I want to volunteer my techy skills with some grassroots campaigns. Anyone know of any?
<zmoylan-pi> you could give classes on how to keep your communications safe to various groups
<SuperMatt> That's not a bad idea
<davmor2> Morning all
<zmoylan-pi> even regular presentations on malware, phishing attempts and latest insecurities might help
<popey> SuperMatt: perhaps get in touch with the mySociety people. They do good things. https://www.mysociety.org/
<popey> e.g. they run https://www.writetothem.com/
<SuperMatt> ah right, that's cool
<SuperMatt> I just remembered the EFF exists too
<SuperMatt> and ORG
<popey> ORG deffo needs help
<SuperMatt> Yeah, I just looked at their meetup page, and the only event they have planned is a trip to the science museum
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Tuesday, and happy Inspire Your Heart With Art Day! ð ð
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmY4fNaXXgc easy
<Azelphur> having a fun issue on Ubuntu 16.10, turn machine on, it boots, I can see the wallpaper, screen flickers on for about 500ms, before turning off for around 3 seconds, then repeating. Checked xorg and lightdm logs but nothing is going on in them. any ideas?
<davmor2> Azelphur: what's the graphics stack?
<Azelphur> davmor2: just a radeon r9 390 on the open source drivers
<davmor2> Azelphur: hmm not sure then sorry, only thing I can think of is to maybe have a look in systemctl rather than the logs if you can
<Azelphur> I was looking in systemctl for lightdm
<Azelphur> Can you look at systemctl for X?
<davmor2> Azelphur: more general issues than specifically for x but I think it will tell you if x crash, other thing would be to check /var/crash
<Azelphur> davmor2: empty directory :(
<Azelphur> davmor2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsV8Z-qe0EY for reference, flickering starts after it boots at 50 seconds-ish
<popey> Azelphur: did you say it logs in then you see the flicker?
<popey> or crapping out at login screen?
<Azelphur> nah, it's crapping out at the login screen
<Azelphur> although I can't remember if I set it to automatically login
<popey> Yeah, I'd be inclined to look in the usual /var/log places
<popey> but also if you have autologin, look in ~/.xsession-errors.log (I think it's called)
<Azelphur> popey: that unity-settings-daemon stuff looks dodgy, https://dpaste.de/vB0k
<popey> Azelphur: there's an askubuntu question about resetting unity somewhere
<popey> might be worth doing
<popey> just puts all the compiz nonsense back to default
<popey> http://askubuntu.com/questions/17610/how-do-i-reset-my-unity-configuration
<popey> part way down
<Azelphur> oO, found a problem
<Azelphur>  [drm:radeon_dp_link_train [radeon]] *ERROR* channel eq failed: 5 tries
<Azelphur> getting that being spammed like mad in journalctl -xef
<popey> ooh
<popey> no idea about ATI/AMD, sory
<popey> *sorry
<Azelphur> There's a PPA for newer kernels right? might try bumping onto that
<popey> yeah
<popey> !mainline
<lubotu3> The kernel team supply continuous mainline kernel builds which can be useful for tracking down issues or testing recent changes in the Linux kernel. More information is available at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/MainlineBuilds
<SebthreeBQM10HD>  
<daftykins> AMD and 16.04+ still seems to be a nightmare atm :)
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-01
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Wednesday, and happy Freedom Day! ð
<MooDoo> howdy all
<zmoylan-pi> i thought today was check your backup day?
<foobarry> for gitlab
<popey> http://checkyourbackups.work/
<diplo> After the week before lasts issues with my work.. they've supposedly been doing that
<diplo> Went on to one of the sites they'd checked... they didn't check very well :P
<SuperMatt> What I find the most troubling about the GitLab issue, is that they only had *one* replica of the database
<TwistedLucidity> One? That's â% more than some people
<SuperMatt> hah
<davmor2> Azelphur: did you have a recent update to the drivers?  Maybe try backing that out or try the amdgpu binaries maybe
<davmor2> and Morning all
<davmor2> JamesTait: what day is it?
<MooDoo> morning davmor2
<davmor2> MooDoo: hello stranger remembered how to use your irc client did you ;)
<MooDoo> davmor2: saw this thing on my desk, think it's called a copmuter decided to press the big red button
<davmor2> And that's how trump will end the world
<MooDoo> my daughter is quite glad he's in power to be honest :)
<davmor2> MooDoo: she's like 4 and thinks he belongs on sesame street
<MooDoo> davmor2: 5 and gets to walk around the living shouting trump trump trump lol
<JamesTait> davmor2, Happy Wednesday, and happy Freedom Day! ð
<davmor2> MooDoo: Oh come on I was close
<MooDoo> davmor2: so close is not correct :p
<davmor2> JamesTait: I give you Pharrell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlY90lG_Fuw
<daftykins> https://bethesda.net/en/article/52I2HyPCAowWG2ye8MKGU2/fallout-4-free-updates-high-resolution-texture-pack-and-ps4-pro-support
<daftykins> mmm 58GB texture pack addition, just a small addon then
<haris_> haris
<SuperMatt> SuperMat
<DJones> Don't you love being asked to look at a printer that isn't working, only switch it on and immediately spot the flashing out of ink light.......
<zmoylan-pi> 'i thought that light always blinked'
<_MoBeats_> Afternoon. I'd like to know what are the hardware requirements for MAAS and Autopilot servers. Had a good look on ubuntu.com but can't see the info anywhere. Can someone point me in the right direction please?
<daftykins> _MoBeats_: poor channel choice for support, message the bot 'alis' to find more appropriate channels - or visit #ubuntu direct.
<_MoBeats_> thanks daftykins
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-02
<MooDoo> morning all
<diplo> Morning all
<MooDoo> morning mate
<diplo> Long time no see MooDoo, how're things ?
<SuperMatt> morning all
<MooDoo> diplo: yes things are good thanks.
<diplo> Good to hear!
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<dogmatic69> my laptop wifi started playing games. drops connection every day and wont reconnect without a reboot
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Thursday, and happy Crepe Day! ð
<dogmatic69> tried restarting network manager, iwconfig up/donw etc
<dogmatic69> any ideas?
<dogmatic69> after I restarted the network manager, the wifi option in the menu dropdown is now greyed out
<JamesTait> Sounds depressingly like what happens with my youngest's Dell Inspiron.
<popey> dogmatic69: yeah, long time bug in 16.04
<popey> "nmcli con up <ssid>" brings it back up for me
<popey> "nmcli con" lists the ssids if you forgot which one you should be on
<dogmatic69> popey: great. its only started affecting me this week :/
<dogmatic69> I have just rebooted, but its not even worked this time. will try that command
<dogmatic69> does not seem to be working, do you know of any verbose options for output?
<dogmatic69> just says "connection failed"
<dogmatic69> popey: out of desperation, I rebooted the router. Now working?!?!?
<dogmatic69> my iphone was working on wifi just fine. PC working on eth just fine.
<popey> you on virgin media?
<dogmatic69> yes sir
<dogmatic69> (insert tears here)
<dogmatic69> not sure how ISP would affect this. Im running in modem mode with ddwrt on a different router
<dogmatic69> never had this issue, last updated ddwrt months ago
<dogmatic69> Firmware Version DD-WRT v3.0-r30709 std (09/29/16)
<dogmatic69> been 4 months
<davmor2> JamesTait: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60HUrB_I5yo or you could go with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFkzRNyygfk to misquote Morecambe "All the right letter not necessarily in the right order"
<JamesTait> davmor2, I do appreciate that song. <Â£
<JamesTait> â¤ even
<popey> dogmatic69: i periodically have to reboot my openwrt boxes
<davmor2> popey: you set it to reboot once a week during off time like 3am on a sunday
<popey> davmor2: that's not a bad idea, but that will probably break a backup if I don't time it right
<davmor2> popey: then set it right ;)
<zmoylan-pi> and then make sure that hour going forward and back doesn't break it :-)
<xnox> Ed Sheeran is a twat. Was in the online queue since 9:30am and it is sold out now and I did not get a single ticket.
<zmoylan-pi> don't worry they'll soon be for sale at stupid money online
<popey> haha
<zmoylan-pi> there was recently a commission about ticket touting and they had an expert in explaining how criminal gangs in ireland bot the sales and get the tickets which they sell online for silly money
<zmoylan-pi> if the expert hadn't of been from ticketmaster...
<popey> anyone else on virgin media here?
<popey> i can't get to slack.com or trello.com via VM
<daftykins> even with alternate DNS?
<daftykins> i always found VM's DNS servers would have woes so ran alternatives back in my England days
<daftykins> suppose it could be more routing, i'll be quiet :>
<popey> i switched to company vpn and it works
<popey> I'm not using VM DNS
<daftykins> ah ok, mtr o'clock!
<popey> well, it works now I'm on the vpn, will stay on it while I work
<popey> wondered if any other VM users could confirm
<foobarry> can i get systemd to delay a particular service by 30s?
<foobarry> i configured it to wait until my filesystem was available, but still need a delay
<diplo> Think there is a [timer] option, still new to systemd myself
<diplo> [Timer]
<diplo> OnBootSec=5min or something
<diplo> Start 5mins after boot
<foobarry> hmm i want to start after a service is up
<foobarry> like 2 mins after GPFS is running
<diplo> I think you can do that to, give me abit and I'll take a look
<foobarry> great thx
<diplo> I think you may be able to do it by timer, but could you not use After
<diplo> So something like After=network.target gvfs.target ?
<diplo> Or is that still to soon ?
<Torelila> Anyone have a Ubuntu forum log in?
<Torelila> account
<Torelila> I met this problem in 1610 https://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2286043 and the solution is the same. Kill Nautilus. "issue can also be fixed by removing Nautilus since Cinnamon uses Nemo instead."
<daftykins> i need remote hands, i just tried firmware updating a printer but i'm not there to read the display and/or power cycle it XD
<zmoylan-pi> a drone with a camera and a pokey stick...
<daftykins> :>
<daftykins> i think the keys will be the toughest part
<daftykins> i just watched 'Arrival', that was well worth a go in my opinion!
<daftykins> missed it in the cinema
<zmoylan-pi> think of the fun you could have playing knick knock at peoples doors and flying away before they answer...
<daftykins> they'd hear the *VRRRRT* :>
<zmoylan-pi> you'd time it for when there's vespa scooters going past...
<daftykins> ah har
<zmoylan-pi> or add a laser and shine beam on door bell from stand off position and make a cat ring the door bell.... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> remote remote
<zmoylan-pi> purrfect crime...
<daftykins> i had to paws to think that one through
 * zmoylan-pi wonders if it would be a feliney
<daftykins> i don't think there's any claws for concern
<zmoylan-pi>  /me whiskers off for a shower
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-03
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> good moaning
<davmor2> Morning all
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<JamesTait> Good morning all! Happy Friday, and happy Carrot Cake Day! ð
 * zmoylan-pi has no carrot cake but knows were there's a wounded dangerous cheesecake that needs to be taken care of
<dogmatic69> trying to find a PCIe wifi card http://i.imgur.com/9GITpEd.png
<dogmatic69> :D
<foobarry> trying to find a wing mirror cover
<foobarry> :(
<zmoylan-pi> ...at least things have moved on from audio on linux... :-P
<foobarry> also, not broadcom
<dogmatic69> probably will get this one, seems ok https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00TZJYRF6
<zmoylan-pi> take 1 antennae into the pc, not anymore...
<dogmatic69> ?
<dogmatic69> what you mean zmoylan-pi
<zmoylan-pi> the card you linked has 3 antennae... just seems bit razor bladey advertising...
<zmoylan-pi> but considering that pcs are often big metal cases there have been times internal or short antennaes have require some weird positioning of pcs
<foobarry_> diplo: had terrible network issue, so not sure if u replied to me yseterday about systemd...
<foobarry_> errm since when did sudo echo ***** on screen?
<popey> it doesn't on ubuntu 16.04
<foobarry_> nervous now
<popey> you're running elementary?
<foobarry_> installed 1.8.16-0ubuntu1.2
<popey> 1.8.16-0ubuntu1.2 here
<popey> it's an option in sudoers
<popey> pwfeedback
<foobarry_> ah, nice one
<foobarry_> datestamp 25 jan
<foobarry_> looks like elementary did some things
<popey> i remember seeing it mentioned somewhere
<foobarry_> also my laptop fails to suspend now
<popey> https://bugs.launchpad.net/elementaryos/+bug/1611934
<lubotu3> Launchpad bug 1611934 in elementary OS "Enable password feedback in Terminal" [Wishlist,Fix committed]
<foobarry_> so yay
<popey> fails to suspend or fails to resume?
<foobarry_> fails to suspend properly i think
<foobarry_> defintiely fails to resume
<foobarry_> now working >50% of the time,
<foobarry_> was 100% fail earlier
<foobarry_> strange thing is, nothing obvious triggers it
<foobarry_> it can't shut down graphics device on something like that
<foobarry_> ACPI errors and all sorts of munge
<popey> filed a bug?
<foobarry_> very hard to debug
<foobarry_> linus has the i915 bar 6 errors
<foobarry_> too
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingKernelSuspend
<foobarry_> tried all that in the past, had to resort to sort romanian script like a noob
<foobarry_> only thing that fixed it
<diplo> I said a few things, but not sure how relevant they were to you.
<diplo> Have you tried After=network.target gvfs.target ?
<foobarry_> turns out gpfs sucks
<foobarry_> https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/systemd-devel/2016-August/037295.html
<daftykins> Â£5 SCART cable came for the ol' Sega Mega Drive i have kicking around :)
<daftykins> http://imgur.com/a/YiwQz
<zmoylan-pi> the light gun games won't work on the modern flat panels will they?
<popey> sadly not
<zmoylan-pi> :-(
 * zmoylan-pi had great fun with time crisis on ps1
<popey> i have a crt tv which i have carefully placed at my mums house on long term loan for when the day comes when i dig out my light gun based games :)
<popey> same :)
<daftykins> could've sworn i'd heard of a mod
<zmoylan-pi> i have seen people /appear/to be playing light gun games on lcd screens....
<daftykins> anyone wanna take my clients 3 year old son? this is what i found the big LG OLED TV like today - http://i.imgur.com/2J7I8Lg.jpg
<zmoylan-pi> at least it didn't have chocolate hobnobs stuck in usb/hdmi ports...
<daftykins> well one of the devices won't play sound anymore
<popey> here's what i found inside my subwoofer one day http://imgur.com/a/BqrvD
<daftykins> :>
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<Bilz> does anyone have any experience getting ctrl + down arrow/up arrow to mimic fn + up arrow/down arrow to get pg up / pg dwn
<daftykins> why press one non-standard thing when you can press the right thing?
<penguin42> you do keyboards with particularly annoying layouts or maybe you want to do it with one hand
<dogmatic69> so, looks like the wifi card I got does not work out the box :(
<penguin42> what is it?
<dogmatic69> is there something I can use to see what PCI devices are connected / discovered?
<dogmatic69> I got this https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00TZJYRF6
<penguin42> dogmatic69: lspci
<dogmatic69> does not look like its in there
<dogmatic69> https://gist.github.com/dogmatic69/ebc43b6c978e32984189c6ac04b82964
<penguin42> it would be very odd for it not to show at all
<dogmatic69> maybe something disabled in the bios. let me go check, ill brb
<daftykins> eww desktop wifi :|
<daftykins> dogmatic69: keep juggling it around in the slots until it is seen in lspci output, doesn't even matter if you try a non-1x slot
<dogmatic69> man, the card does not fit correctly....
<dogmatic69> daftykins: im hoping the wifi card will be better than eth over power which is limited to 40mb/s on mine
<daftykins> cables are nice :)
<dogmatic69> got it detected now, I will continue with the guide
<daftykins> it's not some shifty blog is it...
<dogmatic69> yes, but right now I cant be arsed to run cables as im in a temporary location
<dogmatic69> Stack overflow...
<daftykins> maybe you should link it before you start XD
<dogmatic69> or ask ubuntu even. http://askubuntu.com/questions/55868/installing-broadcom-wireless-drivers
<dogmatic69> seems like the right one ;)
<daftykins> should just be in the additional drivers prog then ja
<penguin42> daftykins: I agree; I like to be able to see where my packets are going
<dogmatic69> and I have wifi showing \o/
<dogmatic69> all I done was install bcmwl-kernel-source
<daftykins> now for the inevitable dropping and DHCP woes and such with broadcom on Linux :>
<dogmatic69> cant see the 5g network though....
<daftykins> no the driver likely doesn't include a 5GHz portion on Linux
<daftykins> or at least, not that one
<dogmatic69> lame
<daftykins> you can still try the other ones
<dogmatic69> well that was completly lame
<daftykins> hrmm?
<zmoylan-pi> so much for a quick change of internet provider... :-P
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> changed my wifi extender from old ap to new ap.  web works but my pi refused to join the network even though it's linked via cat 5 cable to my extender...
<zmoylan-pi> had to dig out my scart monitor and all my adapter dohickeys to connect the pi to it
<daftykins> ;)
<zmoylan-pi> used the opportunity to try and use my new adapter to connect my pi2 to it but no joy...
<daftykins> oh you meant IRC with 'join the network' ?
<zmoylan-pi> but i think i know why it didn't work now and can try it again tomorrow... a bigger faster pi will be mine... oh yes... :-)
<daftykins> i wonder if a new one will come with a new graphics core at long last, capable of H.265 decode
<zmoylan-pi> no, the pi refused to connect to ap in any discernable way
<daftykins> ah, wifi channel perhaps
<daftykins> except you seem to have said wired but i can't tell :>
<zmoylan-pi> but of course once i connected the monitor and convinced it to work it worked perfectly
<daftykins> as is tradition!
<daftykins> it just wanted you to work for it
<zmoylan-pi> well i had to step around my fubar and hammer storage so it was taking a big big risk
<zmoylan-pi> not impressed with virginmedia... very laggy
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: It's very location dependent; the latency here has been wonderful on them, but it varies sometimes
<penguin42> zmoylan-pi: It certainly suffers from evening latency issues
<daftykins> and student season from my memories of it :D
<zmoylan-pi> all those kids running napster...
<daftykins> one told me about slipping the installer some cash to have your 'modem' back in the day MAC cloned with someone on the top service
<daftykins> that'd do horrible things to the network i'm sure
 * zmoylan-pi remembers the fun when our small business server kept giving people the same ip address
<zmoylan-pi> no internet for you you you or you
<penguin42> daftykins: I once gave my old DSL router to someone and then spent a few days wondering wth I was having random drop outs....
<penguin42> daftykins: He was on a different exchange about 15 miles away but it was still giving him my static IP even though I thought I'd reset it
<daftykins> o0
<zmoylan-pi> probably just the ip the government was tracking you at... :-P
<diddledan> *want* http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Arcade-Machine-2-Player-Bar-Top-Stand-Flat-Pack-Kit-Raspberry-Pi-Mame/142242269234
<zmoylan-pi> that's a big case for a pi!! :-D
<daftykins> sounds like 2017 has gained its' first break-up between drunks in my lane
<zmoylan-pi> but a case like that would be a fantastic place to store a lot of storage for drives, dvd, cd collections...
<diddledan> \o/
<diddledan> daftykins: you probably broke their HDD and they blamed each other rather than you
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> must have had an external in her purse to give to the DJ down the club
<zmoylan-pi> ...but they're not waiting till 0100... it can't be true love
<diddledan> isn't it supposed to midnight that the woman turns into a pumpkin?
<diddledan> to be*
<zmoylan-pi> no no, with booze the guy starts out looking like a pumpkin but looks more like a swede the more booze drunk... :-P
<daftykins> a friend of mine broke the clip on a horrible old netbook a few years back doing a screen replacement - i continue to rub it in: http://i.imgur.com/UOiaGeI.png
#ubuntu-uk 2017-02-05
<daftykins> me and mspaint right thar
<zmoylan-pi> all those years at college weren't waster... :-P
<zmoylan-pi> *wasted
<daftykins> 8D
<daftykins> bed for me, g'night folks \o
 * daftykins sniffs at diddledan's HDDs on the way out
 * diddledan corrals his disk to protect it
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> for the minecraft players who remember elite... https://www.avorion.net/
<diddledan> wait, you can boot the pi without binary blobs?!
<diddledan> https://github.com/christinaa/rpi-open-firmware/blob/master/README.md
<zmoylan-pi> tis a new thing i think.  tis nice to know that some of the weird haven't a clue code is now absent from the mix
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-29
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> good morning friends
<brobostigon> morning
<foobarry>  haven't been reading any social media/news/irc anything for a few weeks. anything happened?
<foobarry> last thing i read was meltdown
<zmoylan-pi> well there's the current fitness tracker giving away us secret bases thing...
<zmoylan-pi> and meltdown and spectre haven't gone away either with microsoft disabling the intel patches for the bugs as they are awful
<SuperMatt> some people think the rubbishness of the patches which have gone to the windows and linux kernels shows signs of another issue that Intel may be trying to cover up
<popey> MORNING
<popey> oops
<zmoylan-pi> anyone who's still nursing a hangover at this time deserves the pain of the shouting :-P
<popey> It's 6:48 AM here :)
<zmoylan-pi> well that time zone deserves shouting at for been lazy :-)
<czajkowski> Aloha
<popey> IKR
<SuperMatt> g'day
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> is it morning?
<SuperMatt> I hope not, otherwise I've got another 7.5h of work
<diddledan> SuperMatt: it's just hitting 12:00 here :-( time zones suck
<daftykins> diddledan: they let you in!
<zmoylan-pi> that sleepy sleep snoozy snooze really does work...
<ali1234> popey: i just saw this on reddit: http://linuxgizmos.com/rpi-zero-w-clone-offers-quad-core-power-for-15/
<ali1234> ARMv7 allwinner with pi zero form factor
<zmoylan-pi> i'd love to see sales numbers for the pi clones out there....
<ali1234> why...
<ali1234> there's really only one reason to use a clone, and that's because you need to use a distribution that dropped support for ARMv6... hence why i mentioned it to popey :)
<ali1234> in all other cases you are better off with the real thing, because RPi foundation support is way better than what you get from allwinner
<ali1234> they are still stuck on linux 3.4 afaik :)
<zmoylan-pi> the numbers sold would indicate size of community and maybe the levels of support...
<zmoylan-pi> as you say, better off with real thing but would still like some competition for r-pi so they don't get complacent :-)
<ali1234> nobody can compete with RPi because they have preferential treatment from broadcom
<ali1234> RPi provide competition for *everybody else* - as i've said many times, you can't get away will charging $200 for a dev kit any more (although samsung still try, bet you can't even name their Pi competitor :) )
<zmoylan-pi> i know intels gallileo died a death
<zmoylan-pi> and r-pi is now chasing up on commodores most manufactured computer record if they haven't already beaten it.  there was some discussion as to what constituted a single model
<ali1234> they beat it last year
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't there some argument that they were lumping multiple revisions of the pi into one to beat the c64?
<ali1234> yes, but nobody cares. there were multiple revisions of the C64 too
<ali1234> the fact is they all boot the same OS image :)
<zmoylan-pi> a lot closer in spec than the revisions of the pi i think
<zmoylan-pi> mind it was hard to have a difference in spec when the amounts of ram, cpu speed, etc. were so low... :-)
<ali1234> yes, and a lot harder to release updated software if the hardware changed
<zmoylan-pi> tell me about it, when they made the spectrum +2 they changed the rom a teeny tiny bit and made about 5% of spectrum software not work...
<popey> ali1234:  oooh, stop making me buy more pi clones
<zmoylan-pi> gotta catch them all! :-)
<popey> shame your usb connector thing wouldn't fit that
<popey> and guess there's not a market enough to redesign and market one
<ali1234> yeah, i couldn't even make a variant because of all the components on the back
<ali1234> that will also prevent it from fitting in most cases
<zmoylan-pi> knock one up on your 3d printer...
<ali1234> doing a redesign would cost almost nothing. PCB prototyping is ridiculously cheap these days
<ali1234> i mean it would cost like $5 for each prototype
<popey> you could maybe add a spacer and have pogo pins on your board, attaching to pads on theirs?
<ali1234> well, another problem is there are no test points to connect to
<ali1234> the USB connectors are not through hole
<ali1234> although there's a funny looking 4 pin header in between them
<ali1234> i ordered one so we'll see
<zmoylan-pi> maybe it's rs232... :-)
<ali1234> no, that's visible on another header
<popey> yeah, 3 pin header near the sd slot
<ali1234> anyone pre-ordered one of those gemini PDA things?
<popey> I think flexiondotorg did
<flexiondotorg> I did
<ali1234> are you a psion fanboy?
<ali1234> or did you just like the look of it?
<ali1234> the weird thing about the psion is that the fanboys had nobody to war with. there were really no competitors to it
<ali1234> but everyone i know who had one was totally hardcore about it
<daftykins> psion \o/
<daftykins> still not cleaned up that failed rubber on my discovered 3c
<ali1234> isopropyl alcohol fetches it right off
<daftykins> mmm, had bigger fish to fry here of late unfortunately
<daftykins> although amusingly my parents found all the original boxes to the PsiWin software, unit itself and so on at their place
<daftykins> i've still got the floppies and the data cable, so it's a full set - shame its' hinges snapped on me opening up
<daftykins> +it
<zmoylan-pi> psions were the rolls royce of the pda market, there was nothing else like it.  it wasn't a companion device to your pc.  it could do 90% of what a lot of people did on their pc...
<flexiondotorg> ali1234: I never had a psion. I just like the form factor of the Gemini.
 * zmoylan-pi had 3a, 3c, 5, 5mx and also used a psion ii on occasion
<daftykins> and several shares? ;)
<zmoylan-pi> not all at once... that would be silly :-)
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-30
<daftykins> oh we know all about your moonlight Kraftwerk impressions
<daftykins> bug against subiquity seconded \o/
<zmoylan-pi> the multitasking on even the 3a was excellent, no need for more than one device at a time
<Nafallo> morning
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> tuesday... not a monday... so we have that going for us... :-)
<SuperMatt> Yeah, but is it really all that great?
<zmoylan-pi> still not a monday
<SuperMatt> I suppose
<SuperMatt> I'm just not convinced
<zmoylan-pi> tuesday is as far as you get from a monday based on temporal inertia
<ali1234> diddledan: i just installed your openra snap and it says all the multiplayer games are incompatible - even ones that appear to be the same version as the snap
#ubuntu-uk 2018-01-31
<diddledan> ali1234: interesting, I wonder what the problem is
<daftykins> :D
 * diddledan kicks it
<ali1234> the game works beautifully in single player :)
<diddledan> then there's no problem :-p
<diddledan> it works fine! except online..
<ali1234> did you maybe build it from a random git snapshot?
<daftykins> he has a dartboard, so i'm told
<diddledan> lemme check what I used
<diddledan> I pulled it from: https://github.com/OpenRA/OpenRA/archive/release-20171014.tar.gz and compiled that
<daftykins> diddledan: did you find Frasier yet!?
<diddledan> not yet. been busy
<diddledan> and jetlagged
<daftykins> :>
<diddledan> I'm on the coffee today so I'm a bit buzzy :-p
<daftykins> do all the things!
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<foobarry> macbook air won't turn on ALTHOUGH it did at one point last week. tried the magic reset PRAM , SRAM etc to no avail. any suggestions?
<foobarry> seems temperamental
<foobarry> bitcoin spam is the new thing i see.
<zmoylan-pi> the main one that sticks out for me is how obamacare is going away and i need to sign up for trumpcare...
<zmoylan-pi> meanwhile in techsupport land... https://imgur.com/gallery/P191U
<foobarry> the top pic, i did that recently
<foobarry> with infiniband cables that were hard to remove
<foobarry> sometimes it needs to be done if they are plumbed between racks
<SuperMatt> D:
<zmoylan-pi> did you learn nothing from star trek?! you're supposed to have human sized conduits for all the cables :-)
<SuperMatt> Jeffries tubes ftw
<foobarry> some guy have cable tied the cables every 6 inches
<foobarry> to the rack
<foobarry> it was never coming out
<zmoylan-pi> you were using the wrong tool.  you find the eejit who did that and use your cluestick every hour till the cables are gone :-P
<foobarry> i suspect the rack came pre built
<foobarry> there were so many cables in it , and IB cables are thick
<zmoylan-pi> yeah, i've seen that level of you'll never have to do anything to this rack... 2 weeks later... oh bugger...
<foobarry> i'm going back to that rack soon
<SuperMatt> I'm so glad I don't have to deal with racking any more
<SuperMatt> that's ${CLOUDPROVIDER}'s problem
<foobarry> this is just for my test cluster
<foobarry> otherwise there's a dedicated team for hardware
<zmoylan-pi> your test cluster? 10 rasp pi in a cornflake box? :-)
<foobarry> i have one of those too :D
<foobarry> https://imgur.com/a/AUUL7
<zmoylan-pi> wow, were do you buy your cornflakes? :-)
<foobarry> cronflakes
<SuperMatt> This is the extent of my cabling skills: https://photos.app.goo.gl/yPmX3fOjNrdR0GW22
<zmoylan-pi> huh, a leftie... :-)
<SuperMatt> Actually, I'm a rightie, but when we got our first computer, my brother who is a leftie set up the mouse on the left hand side. I've really known no different
<SuperMatt> I recently tried playing some games with it on the correct side, but I just failed.
<SuperMatt> It feels really strange
<foobarry> you are strange
<zmoylan-pi> this. is. i.r.c. :-)
<SuperMatt> foobarry: it's not my fault I'm strange. I've explained my reasons!
<daftykins> :D
<daftykins> after my right arm was left really weak from a shoulder break, i vowed to balance my hand usage so my left wouldn't be so useless in future - it's pretty handy
<SuperMatt> I could spend some time working on using my right hand, but *shrug* left WFM
<daftykins> mmm less incentive when one isn't injured, but when it counts - it counts
<daftykins> somehow i grew up using cutlery left handed but right for everything else
<SuperMatt> Left handed for cutlery? How vulgar!
<SuperMatt> The Queen would never accept you in her dining quarters
<daftykins> i am but a lowly Channel Islander, so that may be guaranteed :D
<diddledan> Morning
<daftykins> \o
<daftykins> https://websiteforstudents.com/configure-static-ip-addresses-on-ubuntu-18-04-beta/ - this is horrible :/
<halt> Quick question, ( on 17.10 Gnome ) the automatic screen lock does not trigger where should I look ( I did the setup it in Settings -> Privacy -> Screen Lock )
<daftykins> ask in #ubuntu
<halt> was just about to, but now it's done
<daftykins> was it off?
<halt> it was on all the time ( as far as I can tell )
<zmoylan-pi> editing video in linux.... is that a i do everything in linux masochistic thing? does stallman know? :-P
<zmoylan-pi> wrong channel :-)
<daftykins> i wondered :D
<davmor2> Moo!
<daftykins> \o
<diddledan> baa
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-01
<zmoylan-pi> bark
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> good morning
<SuperMatt> My study is freezing today
<diplo> I went swimming at 06:30, on my that was cold! muscles are warm now though
<SuperMatt> I did my first swim in ages on tuesday
<SuperMatt> 25 lengths of a 25m pool
<SuperMatt> I was quite proud of my slightly overweight self
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<SuperMatt> morning
<SuperMatt> Working from home is always awesome
<brobostigon> morning, :)
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<foobarry> seem to have caught a company using bots to create fake bids to drive up auction prices
<foobarry> the evidence is overwhelming. incluiding brand new accounts and immediate retracted bids after they found the max bid price
<diplo> SuperMatt: I do 20 lengths with my boy on Wednesday mornings, don't have time for much more as I drop him back to his mums and then need to get to work, but he is loving it, bit overweight so it helps in multiple ways
<SuperMatt> foobarry: we've found we can deal with our bot problem simply by blocking every single amazon IP at the firewall level
<foobarry> the problem is that this is an item we bid on
<foobarry> and somebody has bid up the item many 100s of pounds with seemingly fake bids
<foobarry> and a lot of their other items too
<SuperMatt> oh, it's not a site you're running
<diplo> Any of you guys use nginx ?
<SuperMatt> I do
<SuperMatt> sometimes
<SuperMatt> when I can be bothered
<diplo> Trying to work out location, I use it on my website, but I only server one site for my vps.. but locally I want to test and I'm playing with flask, I can load the site at default ip
<diplo> But want to load ip/diplo
<diplo> So from what I read I should use location /diplo and that should do that for me
<foobarry> i didn't explain..the auction is ebay. their approach is poor at resolving this stuff
<Scarecrow> Hi all, got this problem, wondering if anyone could shed some light? - https://serverfault.com/questions/895023/nfs-on-ubuntu-17-04-works-but-not-on-17-10
<daftykins> Scarecrow: is that your post? have you also asked in #ubuntu ?
<Scarecrow> daftykins: Hi, it is my colleagues post and yes, I have asked in #ubuntu
<daftykins> what's the point of you being the go-between then?
<Scarecrow> Just trying to find a solution. I thought I'd give IRC a shot...
<daftykins> right but if the issue is affecting someone else...
<zleap> Scarecrow: hi
<zleap> i agree daftykins sometimes being a go-between causes more confusion trying to get the right information.
<daftykins> only the person that can test should really seek help - but if it's being used in a work context, non-LTS isn't a wise choice
<Scarecrow> We're a 2 man operation working on the same project. There is no confusion, just trying to get a solution between us.
<zleap> ok
<zleap> we cna try and help
<zleap> can
<daftykins> hopefully you're aware of the difference between LTS and not, then
<Scarecrow> Yes, I am aware and it is being used in a work context
<Scarecrow> We were advised by digital ocean to upgrade due to the recent Spectre / Meltdown issues that have arisen
<Scarecrow> Upgrade went all to plan. It's just this nfs mount issue we are now having
<daftykins> no that's not what DO's mailing said, it said make sure your kernel is up to date :)
<daftykins> so it's a DO droplet as well, heh
<Scarecrow> Well, yeah okay it did say to update the kernel yes, you got me ha...but, that being said, surely 17.10 should still function correctly in the same way 17.04 does right?
<daftykins> neither release should really be designed around at all, you should be using an LTS release on a DO droplet if you're hosting services for others
<daftykins> also, upgrading droplets is wholly unnecessary, the beauty of VMs is being able to spin up another, configure it all right and test it, then switch over services and destroy the old one
<daftykins> whilst none of that is going to help now, have a think about it for the future
<zleap> i take it droplet is a container system like kubernates, docker etc
<daftykins> nah just digitalocean's own term for a VM instance
<daftykins> just to be different :D
<Scarecrow> daftykins: 17.10 is the most up to date droplet they provide as an option...what makes you say that upgrading the droplet is unnecessary just out of interest?
<daftykins> !lts
<lubotu3> LTS means Long Term Support. LTS versions are supported for 5 years on the desktop and server. The latest LTS version of Ubuntu is !Xenial (Xenial Xerus 16.04). Ubuntu !flavors may have different support durations, check their release notes for information.
<daftykins> Scarecrow: 14.04 and 16.04 are the current long term support editions, if you and your colleague are providing services running from these, you should stick to LTS releases so that you know when they're going to get dropped... 17.04 and 17.10 are only good for a few months, which is wholly impractical to keep atop of
<diplo> Better suited fort hings like NFS shares where you don't want things to go wrong
<diplo> inbetween are newer less tested releases
<Scarecrow> Ahhhhhh okay - apologies! Thanks a lot, lesson learned haha!!
<Scarecrow> Cheers all :)
<diplo> But, NFS is voodoo i find, iot works or doesn't
<diplo> Getting past the issues is so pain staking, I try not to use it :/
<diplo> Which is so unhelpful
<daftykins> i've been having a laugh at the new installer on 18.04, subiquity, right now it fails to apply network config you enter into the installer, failed to wipe a disk prior to install, so stopped... and fails to install to virt technologies where disks don't have serial numbers
<daftykins> got a loooong way to go :D
<diplo> Bugs already there for all those things ?
<diplo> Only run ubuntu on servers atm on my machines
<daftykins> yeah, or i seconded them
<daftykins> same - i don't use desktop Linux at all
<diplo> Oh I do like a linux desktop, run windows and linux, been using Solus for about 8 months now
<SuperMatt> I've been running Ubuntu since I realised that all I need these days is a browser and a terminal
<SuperMatt> Ubuntu provides that
<SuperMatt> Don't need any more fluff
<daftykins> well, hate to say it, but *buntu sure comes with enough fluff :P
<SuperMatt> It does, but it's fluff which means I don't have to think about anything else.
<daftykins> err ok
<SuperMatt> I just like it because once it's installed I have no configuring to do
<diplo> I just didn't want to go back down the gnome route
<zmoylan-pi> you... had no gnome to go to? :-P
<diplo> heheh
<diddledan> Skype is now available as a snap published directly by MS
<zmoylan-pi> people still use skype?!
<diddledan> Yes. ð
<zmoylan-pi> haven't they learned how much better irc is?! :-D
<Laney> gosh
<Laney> it's light at 16:39
<Laney> summer is coming
<zmoylan-pi> for variable levels of summer...
<Laney> today is 3:32 longer than yesterday in nottingham
<Laney> when that happens again (+3:32) it'll be may 7th/8th!
<daftykins> seemed pretty light at plenty past 5 here last night
<zmoylan-pi> wasn't there a huge flippin moon?
<Laney> daftykins forgets to mention that he works in a lightbulb testing laboratory
<diddledan> It's light at 8:40 I guess murrica works differently
<zmoylan-pi> when they find out he eats light bulbs there's gonna be trouble...
<Laney> helps with weight loss
<daftykins> Laney: drat you got me!
<zmoylan-pi> only light meals...
<czajkowski> does anyone know can you install Telegram on the desktop any more?
<czajkowski> I usedt ot have it
<czajkowski> then it stopped
<daftykins> little person with the morse code clicker must have gone AWOL
<daftykins> is it not just a case of googling ubuntu + version + telegram?
<czajkowski> daftykins: was more wondering in here before I went there
<czajkowski> in case here had a better solution than there
<czajkowski> so here before there you see
<daftykins> there appears to be a - https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/artful/+source/telegram-desktop
<daftykins> assuming you're on 17.10
<czajkowski> aye indeed
<czajkowski> daftykins: cheers
<czajkowski> see here > there
<czajkowski> <----------- very tired
<daftykins> i just ran the same google
<daftykins> i don't even use ubuntu
<daftykins> :D
<ali1234> is the skype snap new?
<daftykins> apparently it's the same version as the deb
<ali1234> of course
<ali1234> skype is currently broken for me anyway
<daftykins> i always thought MS were taunting Loonix users with an ancient version
<ali1234> but i prefer snaps for nasty binary only crud
<ali1234> no they have moved linux to the electron version, it's even worse
<diplo> czajkowski: You can get it via snaps as well
<diddledan> czajkowski: there's an unofficial snap called telegran-sergiusens
<diddledan> Bah I spelt that wrong
 * daftykins phones diddledan's gran
<diddledan> so. apparently I'm now an Ubuntu Member
<diddledan> it's all @popey 's fault
<daftykins> oh dear oh dear
<diddledan> so do I get a cloak on freenode now?
<daftykins> more of a blanket
<daftykins> ;)
<diddledan> does that mean you're gonna smother me with it?!
<zmoylan-pi> and waste a blanket?!
<daftykins> i'd have to ask the cat
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-02
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<diplo> Morning all
<SuperMatt> morning all
<ChunkzZ> morning uk irc users. :p
 * zmoylan-pi waves from ireland o/
 * m0nkey_ waves from Canuck land
 * brobostigon waves from a private autie island called TaylorWorld, :)
 * SuperMatt waves from his lair built in to a skull shaped volcano
<zmoylan-pi> must be a bugger for amazon to deliver to....
<m0nkey_> That's why they invented drones to deliver
<m0nkey_> SuperMatt: Does your volcano split in two and Thunderbird 1 launches?
<zmoylan-pi> but why have a remote forbidding lair if it lets any one approach?!
<m0nkey_> Gotta allow the Amazon delivery
<zmoylan-pi> so any james bond passing just needs an amazon van/drone to deliver the killer blow....
<SuperMatt> Why would I need an Amazon delivery? I'll have my own team of mad scientists and engineers on site to create all the tools I need
<zmoylan-pi> takeout deliveries...
<SuperMatt> evil chefs
<zmoylan-pi> not the same...
<SuperMatt> When someone falls in to the spike pit, I'm not going to leave all that meat to go to waist
<SuperMatt> waste
<zmoylan-pi> you don't know what diseases they're carrying...
<SuperMatt> I'm not going to eat that stuff. It goes to the prisoners
<SuperMatt> but while I have the chefs, they might as well whip up a curry
<brobostigon> an a katzu curry as well, :)
<brobostigon> and*
<SuperMatt> mmm... katsu curry
<brobostigon> :)
<brobostigon> one of my favorites.
<SuperMatt> I found out recently that my favourite katsu serving establishments in London is owned by an aquaintance of mine
<SuperMatt> Got a free meal when I found that out
<brobostigon> ah cool, :)
<SuperMatt> gotta figure out how to time it some I'm there every time he is and get more free meals
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-03
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
#ubuntu-uk 2018-02-04
<brobostigon> morning boys and girls.
<zmoylan-pi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<zmoylan-pi> so any excitement planned for today?
<brobostigon> zmoylan-pi: maybe a visit to my local this afternoon with my notebook and o more brainstorming on the D&D scenario i am building, :)
<ana_> probably the people helping me are not here right now, but if it can be passed on ... thank you for all your help. I managed to change my hard drive and now all works. thanks
<daftykins> woohoo
<brobostigon> a family solicitor in the house?
<daftykins> https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/02/donkey-kong-billy-mitchell-high-score-fraud-allegation/
<daftykins> wowzer
<diddledan> yawn
<diddledan> jetlag is a bummer
<daftykins> :<
#ubuntu-uk 2020-01-27
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o/
<Azelphur> Just installed Xubuntu 19.10 on an AMD Ryzen 2200G, getting horrible graphics distortion. Any ideas?
<Azelphur> Anything that moves on the screen seems to become distorted like static, I'm guessing I have to update something to make it work better
<daftykins> is it already using amdgpu as the driver out of the box?
<Azelphur> daftykins, looks like it's using mesa according to glxinfo?
<daftykins> hrmm ok probably just a shortcoming in my knowledge of AMD setups then
<daftykins> i'd be looking at X's log rather than glxinfo for driver normally o0
<Azelphur> daftykins, ah, yes using AMDGPU
<daftykins> is the motherboard firmware current?
<daftykins> oerheks in another channel mentioned that an update atop 19.10 may have caused woes for people of late
<Azelphur> daftykins, it's an new board but no firmware updates, I'll check the BIOS version and report back
<Azelphur> daftykins, someone from #radeon figured it out for me, needed to add AMD_DEBUG=nodcc to /etc/environment :)
<daftykins> does that make it specific to xfce?
<Azelphur> don't think so
<daftykins> sad to hear confirmation of certain things still being wobbly in AMD land
<zxmoypi> at least there was a soloution...
<daftykins> workaround :P
<zxmoypi> true
<daftykins> and who knows how far it lies or how long it lasts!
<daftykins> far it lies? err... such wording
<zxmoypi> autocorrect?
<daftykins> nah i'm fully manual here
<zxmoypi> ah, brain fart... :-)
<daftykins> Azelphur: apparently newer mesa versions from the well known PPAs resolve things too
<Azelphur> I see, that's about what I expected
<daftykins> mesa 20
#ubuntu-uk 2020-01-28
<brobostigon> morning
<knightwise> morning everyone
<brobostigon> morning knightwise
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<m0nkey_> (â¯Â°â¡Â°ï¼â¯ï¸µ â»ââ»
<daftykins> oh no! not my best table!
<zxmoypi> do you know how long he got lost in ikea hunting that table?
<m0nkey_> ( â¢_â¢)>ââ -â  not long (ââ _â ) enough
<zxmoypi> daftykins is patients as a =^..^=
<daftykins> have to be when you have clients like mine ;)
<m0nkey_> ( Â´ï½¥ï½¥)ï¾(._.`)
<zxmoypi> or access to a really good cattle prod :-P
#ubuntu-uk 2020-01-29
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<m0nkey_> à² _à² 
<m0nkey_> à²¥_à²¥
 * daftykins camouflages his best furniture
<m0nkey_> à² à²¿_à² 
 * m0nkey_ will find it
#ubuntu-uk 2020-01-30
<brobostigon> morning
<daftykins> morn \o
<daftykins> had the first bad firmware flash of my life last night D: with a netgear switch, it's ok though, got a Â£6 TTL adapter on the way so i can flash it back directly
<zxmoypi> for my it was a super duper zyxel modem back in the 14.400bps days
<m0nkey_> they we blistering speeds back in the day
<zxmoypi> downloading remotely and you could see the compression kicking in while transferring text files.... really whizzed down
#ubuntu-uk 2020-01-31
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
<zxmoypi> an idea for the new google slack competitor :-P https://twitter.com/RonAmadeo/status/1222573739721752584
<brobostigon> lolz.
 * zxmoypi has charged my nokia... should be good till tuesday... :-P
<brobostigon> :)
<zxmoypi> and that's only because when it's less than 100% i worry. 90%?! must recharge phone... :-P
<brobostigon> :)
<m0nkey_> So, who's looking forward to Brexit?
<m0nkey_> I was of the stay camp, but even living abroad it became a case of 'just get on with it already'.
<zxmoypi> well no matter what happens irish economy will take a big whack. but we'll survive. always have in the past. but i'm not sure how uk will manage
<zxmoypi> my long term guestimate is that it will break up the uk in 20 years
<m0nkey_> the UK needs the monies from China.. so Huawei
<zxmoypi> they'll want a base of operations... you'll just have to give up the isle of mann on a 100 year lease or something :-P
<m0nkey_> I'd also like to see more focus on the commonwealth, visa free living/working in UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, including other commonwealth countries.
<zxmoypi> australia and new zealand have really cracked down on immigration. not sure that'll work
<m0nkey_> true
<m0nkey_> but one can wish
<zxmoypi> i think brexit was one big pile of wishing
<m0nkey_> Anyway, a few of us from the office will be seeing Brexit in at 6PM EST tonight. We're going to a British themed pub.
<zxmoypi> but gfa won't last long no matter what assurances are made unless there's hard proof it's still in effect
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-01
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> o/
<popey> o/
<zxmoypi> all well?
<popey> yeah, just sad seeing all these photos of fosdem online. wish i was there
<zxmoypi> next year all the border guards looking for passports and visas.... just don't get caught out if they say good luck :-P
<popey> I can see perfectly!
 * zxmoypi thuds baseball off the wall into glove
 * popey shakes his trousers in the yard
 * zxmoypi steals a few more bunk boards for the tunnels
<popey> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/dFPgMUWz/right%2C%20here%20we%20go
 * zxmoypi fires up kellys heros... *woof* *woof*
<daftykins> o0
<zxmoypi> always with the negative waves daftykins
<daftykins> waves?
<zxmoypi> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncbEucjsNFU
<daftykins> oop running out of daylight, gotta nip to the out of town shop
<popey> wow, they sell daylight in shops there?
<popey> neat
<zxmoypi> ditto
<daftykins> it's a bright future, here on the rock
<popey> :)
<popey> well, it will be, if you get to the shop in time!
<daftykins> indeed D:
<penguin42> there's more day light than lately; sommer is on it's way, slowly
<daftykins> and done \o/
<penguin42> it seems really difficult to get good bramley apples at the moment
<zxmoypi> a lot were left to rot as there weren't enough pickers last year in uk
<penguin42> that doesn't make much sense; plenty of apples; just shit and small
<daftykins> hmm got the nasty crackle from my speaker kit back in the front right channel today, very irritating
<daftykins> already pinned it down to the amplifier board inside the subwoofer box, but i don't have the experience to narrow it down further
<daftykins> it sounds like the gentle crackle of a fireplace :D
 * penguin42 would guess a crackle is a bad joint or connector somewhere - you could try tapping each component with something nicely insulated and see if it is one place
<daftykins> mmm it's really not a board that lends itself to being run live and poking around in
<daftykins> https://imgur.com/a/Zre8Atl
<penguin42> obviously the problem is all those empty spaces
<daftykins> :D
<penguin42> wth is with the big blobs of hot melt glue
<daftykins> suspect it's to anger anyone who wants to work on the thing
<daftykins> part of my hesitance to trying anything is how much would have to be desoldered just to take the boards out
<penguin42> yeh unless that board comes out with the power transistors in one go
<penguin42> there's that odd looking crimp connection near the wire tie
<penguin42> not as if the components on that standing up board look tidy at all
<daftykins> nah some were in contact until i wiggled them around a bit too (carefully)
<penguin42> I'd be tempted to resolder the back of any of the board for any of the threw hole components
<daftykins> one of the legs of the upper-right pill-like (presumably ceramic) green capacitor almost looks like it's no longer in place, but it might just be the pic
<daftykins> yeah i was kinda tempted to take the iron to as much of it as possible to see if it'd change anything
<daftykins> the channel giving issue is the front right, so it connects in via the left-hand section of the yellow plastic on the upright PCB
<penguin42> you can also kind of spot some bad solder joints
<daftykins> i couldn't really follow its' traces
<penguin42> nod
<daftykins> it's really intermittent so it's a bit of a pain, has good days and bad days
<penguin42> yeh
<daftykins> definitely a closer eyeballing would probably be worth it at a minimum too, hoping for an obvious one - mostly i just lack the experience to know which component class could cause the crackle
<daftykins> because of the way it's all tied together i'll have to clear off the kitchen table, throw the sub box on there and flap down the door before glancing around, heh
#ubuntu-uk 2020-02-02
<brobostigon> morning
<zxmoypi> o/
<brobostigon> \o
