#ubuntu-us-pa 2011-10-31
<InHisName> Is SamuraiAlba listening?  http://www.gocomics.com/overboard/2011/09/19     fine tuning bacon
<SamuraiAlba> LOL
<ChinnoDog> In another channel I am in we are helping out a guy that has never eaten bacon before
<TheEvilPhoenix> lol
<sadin> Hey guys anything new announced about any upcoming events id like to start going to some :)
<TheEvilPhoenix> afaik, they're announced via the mailing lists
<sadin> TheEvilPhoenix link to the mailing list signup?
<TheEvilPhoenix> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-pa
<TheEvilPhoenix> note i think you might need an admin to add you but i'm not sure
<pleia2> it's an open list, no admin approval needed
<TheEvilPhoenix> i see
<TheEvilPhoenix> pleia2:  wasnt sure
 * TheEvilPhoenix has had to subscribe to about 50 mailing lists recently o.o
<TheEvilPhoenix> pleia2:  btw whos the list admin
<TheEvilPhoenix> ITS THE RADIOACTIVE TURKEY
<TheEvilPhoenix> :p
<pleia2> TheEvilPhoenix: list admins are listed at the bottom of that listinfo page
<TheEvilPhoenix> ah
<sadin> pleia2 i sent you a tweet :P id like to know what your answer is
<pleia2> sadin: I replied 10 minutes ago
<sadin> pleia2 sorry im multitasking big time didnt see thanks!
<pleia2> should pay attention before complaining :)
<sadin> i wasnt complaining haha
<sadin> ive been using fedora helping out on the design team on my xfce spin and rather then installing ubuntu then downloading xfce i thought id ask which was better xbuntu or ubuntu and downloading the seperate WM
<pleia2> I don't know what's better, but I
<pleia2> 'm part of the xubuntu project ;)
<pleia2> it depends on what you want, xubuntu is a full distro with a default set of applications
<pleia2> if you don't want gnumeric, gimp and everything else xubuntu ships with, you should just install xfce4
<TheEvilPhoenix> mhm
<TheEvilPhoenix> i did that with KDE
<TheEvilPhoenix> io wanted KDE, but not the excess bloatware
<TheEvilPhoenix> s/io/i/
 * TheEvilPhoenix therefore installed kde-standard or w/e the package name is
<TheEvilPhoenix> been using KDE since
<sadin> im not a fan of kde
<TheEvilPhoenix> meh
<TheEvilPhoenix> i didnt like XFCE
 * TheEvilPhoenix has been wanting to try KDE since 9.04
<TheEvilPhoenix> but back in 9.04, i didnt have hardware that could run it
 * TheEvilPhoenix has since gotten better hardware >:)
<sadin> and pleia2 it sounds like xbuntu is the exact same as the fedora xfce spin so ill use that id love to steer clear of unity not that its bad its just i only use xfce and i dont need another wm clogging up my HD :P
 * TheEvilPhoenix made a KDM login screen theme, so he feels slightly accomplished today
<TheEvilPhoenix> :P
<SamuraiAlba> MMMMMMmmmmm... REDDIT :)
<rick__> hello all
<TheEvilPhoenix> hello.
<rmg511> Morning
<JonathanD> Morning.
<rmg511> hi sleepyhead ;-)
<rmg511> work time
<rmg511> later
<JonathanD> Evil clock of evil.
<teddy-dbear> morning
<InHisName> What's going on?  all of you having the 'monday morning blues'
<InHisName> No blizzards, rain, etc.   It's a real nice morning, enjoy!
 * ChinnoDog yawns loudly
 * InHisName jawns silently
 * teddy-dbear gets ready for Halloween 
<InHisName> is there a teddy-dbear costume available ?
<teddy-dbear> didn't you see me at the last PACS meeting/
<InHisName> You but not a costume big enough for Jim F to hide inside.
<InHisName> /You/You, /
<InHisName> anyone doing stuff with ubuntu today ?
<ChinnoDog> Only if I can write a program that will replace my buzzing CPU fan.
<jedijf> ChinnoDog: write a wave generator that cancels it out
<JonathanD> Good plan.
<rmg51> does listening to internet radio count?
<jedijf> only if it's louder than fan
<JonathanD> jedijf: he'll have to mount mics in his ears to do it right.
<jedijf> JonathanD: even better project
<jedijf> we can then market to the psychiatric community
<JonathanD> Awesome.
<ChinnoDog> ...
<ChinnoDog> Forget I said anything.
<JonathanD> ChinnoDog: need a CPU fan?
<ChinnoDog> Yea. At least, I think that is the culprit.
<ChinnoDog> Luckily there is a Microcenter 5 minutes from me.
<JonathanD> Thats sort of redundant.
<ChinnoDog> How so?
<JonathanD> well, not really redundant, I'm just saying, it's not like there are a lot of microcenters around :)
<ChinnoDog> Yea but this one is right here
<ChinnoDog> microcenter++
<JonathanD> It's effectively the only microcenter for PAians.
<ChinnoDog> my_apartment++
<JonathanD> I love microcenter.
<JonathanD> it's 10 minutes from here.
<ChinnoDog> Not that microcenter, the one in Virginia
<JonathanD> oh well, then nevermind :P
<jedijf> ChinnoDog: was that a determining factor in the apartment?
<InHisName> I was just there last thurs after the alternate OS meeting.
<InHisName> You can stop that noise with a pair of wire cutters.
<jedijf> InHisName: so larry wasn't alone this month \o/ awesome
<InHisName> We got booted out by xx-anon group.   al or drug or something.
<InHisName> JonathanD: you live near St Davids ?
<JonathanD> InHisName: I work in Consh.
<JonathanD> Live in Bridgeport.
<InHisName> maybe 10 min during non rush hour and fast car.
<InHisName> I thought you meant a 5-10 min walk.
<JonathanD> hah, no :p
<JonathanD> InHisName: I'm right next to the 476 ramp.
<JonathanD> We occasionally go there on lunch.
<ChinnoDog> jedijf: No, but you can imagine I was pretty thrilled when I found out.
<InHisName> MicroCenter serves you guys lunch !!!?
<InHisName> Isn't the RAM a bit TOO crunchy ?
<JonathanD> it's delicious.
#ubuntu-us-pa 2011-11-01
<teddy-dbear> if Joe_CoT|notdead keeps it up I'm going to stab him with my pitchfork :-/
<Joe_CoT|notdead> lol
<teddy-dbear> night all
<InHisName> Joe_CoT|notdead: cannot seem to make up his mind what he wants to be called.
<SamuraiAlba> Good bacon to all!
<JonathanD> Morning.
<rmg51> morning JonathanD
<JonathanD> hey
<JonathanD> 40
<rmg51> hey
<rmg51> 45
<teddy-dbear> morning
<InHisName> 50
<InHisName> hey
<JonathanD> 55
<MutantTurkey> Trinity Desktop Environment 3.5.13 has been released! check it out...
<MutantTurkey> http://trinitydesktop.org
<anduril> I understand what was cool about KDE 3.5 but man, I gotta say in my opinion it is ugly
<MutantTurkey> I agree with that
<MutantTurkey> the default setup is horrid
<MutantTurkey> then again people still us fvwm
<MutantTurkey> luckily TDE actually has user settings unlike gnome3 and kde and unity
<MutantTurkey> my setup looks a lot different
<MutantTurkey> anduril: http://imagebin.org/181948 :)
<anduril> not bad still kde tho ;(
<anduril> erh ;)
<MutantTurkey> lolol
<MutantTurkey> I was pretty hardcore gnome until i started contributing to tde
<MutantTurkey> but the new release of gnome3 has no place in business and offices I don't thin.
<ChinnoDog> crickets
<ssweeny> all the cool kids are at UDS
<MutantTurkey> UDS?
<MutantTurkey> Upper Darby Soliciters. Unified Dental Students, Ultra-Deft Slackers. United Draconoian Society
<MutantTurkey> ...
<jedijf> ubu dev summit
<MutantTurkey> oh
<MutantTurkey> Ubuntu Dev Summit
<InHisName> I like the ones MutantTurkey suggested, they all have more flair to the interpertation.
<MutantTurkey> Unicycling Digeredoo Summoners
<InHisName> Boy that has MORE flair and pizzazz
<MutantTurkey> "the year of desktop Linux" is about as likely as the second coming of christ
<MutantTurkey> LOL
<jedijf> it's always the year of desktop linux....
<jedijf> for some
<MutantTurkey> yeah
<MutantTurkey> can I ask for blind upvotes?
<MutantTurkey> http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/lwozj/trinity_desktop_environment_3513_released/
<TheEvilPhoenix> you can ask for me to slap someone
<MutantTurkey> slap the jedi!
<anduril_> le sigh I just built a $70k desktop on newegg
<MutantTurkey> with what?
<MutantTurkey> oh 70k
<MutantTurkey> pfft
<anduril_> http://www.reddit.com/r/buildapc/comments/lvp9t/does_anyone_else_like_to_see_how_expensive_they/c2w8x5k
<MutantTurkey> $70 is more impressive
<anduril_> it has 13Tb of SSD storage haha
<MutantTurkey> where is that newegg post and the comments are all about the flux capacitor?
<MutantTurkey> its like a giant ram array or something
<mikedep334|away> http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007603+600003269&QksAutoSuggestion=&ShowDeactivatedMark=False&Configurator=&IsNodeId=1&Subcategory=14&description=&hisInDesc=&Ntk=&CFG=&SpeTabStoreType=&AdvancedSearch=1&srchInDesc=
<mikedep334|away> *#%!
<mikedep334|away> the $80 one is sold out when you click on it
<anduril_> I was trying not to blatantly cheat by going with OEM branded hard drives
<mikedep334|away> the $110 + shipping one is actually $140 + shipping
<mikedep334|away> I wonder if this is affecting consumer systems?
<anduril_> oh you mean hard drives running low on stock/rising in price?
<mikedep333> anduril_, yes, I mean that affecting the price point of consumer laptops by Dell, HP, etc
<mikedep333> or consumer desktops by them
<mikedep333> eg, a $350 computer going upto $425
<anduril> well it'll impact the margin (not that there is much left) that a retailer makes on a system but they'll generally end up eating it since the price points for sales are set months in advance
<mikedep333> I have bunch of old spare drives
<mikedep333> which all have at least some bad sectors
<mikedep333> like the 250GB 7200RPM maxtors
<MutantTurkey> mikedep333: ignore bad sectores, profit.
<mikedep333> MutantTurkey, lol
<MutantTurkey> :)
<mikedep333> the question is have they passed the maximum the drive can reallocate
<mikedep333> I mean, I know how to use dban to wipe them securely.
<mikedep333> or use the linux erase command (I think that's the right command)
<mikedep333> you can use that command on a HDD's block device
<InHisName> u all seen this yet ?   http://funroll-loops.info/
<MobileTurkey> ...
<MobileTurkey> OLD
<MobileTurkey> but still a good laugh
<InHisName> 70k for a computer build ?    Who's paying ?
<MobileTurkey> IBM
<MobileTurkey> :x
<MobileTurkey> thats you're minimum allocated
<MobileTurkey> if you dont spend it they'll cut your funding
#ubuntu-us-pa 2011-11-02
<InHisName> mr bacon is missing:   http://imgur.com/gallery/s7m9R
<TheEvilPhoenix> heh
<anduril> InHisName was just me trying to win karma on reddit :-p
<beta0x64> woot
<beta0x64> hello
<beta0x64> ls
<beta0x64> woops :(
<JonathanD> Morning
<rmg51> morning JonathanD
<JonathanD> hey rmg51
<rmg51> o/
<InHisName> good morning now that we are all back together a 2nd time
<JonathanD> indeed.
<JonathanD> InHisName: why did you break freenode.
<InHisName> I just was trying out a new hacker tool, I din't realize it was gonna DOooo something.........
<SamuraiAlba> Good bacon to all!
<InHisName> mr bacon came and went already and I couln't send him the bucket o' bacon
<ChinnoDog> om nom bucket 'o bacon
<InHisName> I'm dabbling around with iptables and NAT trying to connect outside to 192.168.101.163:80   anyone have suggestions.   All that I tried haven't made a diff yet.
<InHisName> I'm seeing a default web page from my astlinux box I want the other to respond not this one.   The astlinux box is where the iptables are used.
<ChinnoDog> Where is "outside"?
<InHisName> wild wild internet
<ChinnoDog> You can't route to a private IP range across the internet because the internet routers will block it
<rhpot1991> you would need to route it at the router
<rhpot1991> if you have access to it
<rhpot1991> think firewall
<Resistance> ^
<InHisName> after experimenting with several iptable items,  I needed one FORWARD and one PREROUTING item to get page to play from hidemyass proxy.   Now I have a simple page up at that web site playing off one of my machines instead of a host web site.
<jthan> jedijf: meeting tomorrow night? I have a potential "new contributor" to the team that would like to see what we're all about here on irc :-p
<jthan> He saw we have meetings, but didn't know if they were a real thing
<InHisName> I have lotta usb logging into /var/log/messages   --  how do I find where logs coming from so I can decide if I want to turn it off ?
<InHisName> seems this is set to 'yes' -- zcat /proc/config.gz | grep USB_STORAGE_DEBUG
<InHisName> zcat /proc/config.gz | grep USB_DEBUG
<InHisName> that one not set
<InHisName> http://pastebin.com/HJphhm89
<InHisName> I found errors in /var/log/messages   back in early morning hours.
<InHisName> Errors on ports that  'shields-UP!' reports as stealthed.
<InHisName> Can someone interpret these lines into something meaning ful ?
<InHisName> the logging above in in dmesg   some sort of 'ring logging'   Things fall off pretty quick due to all the USB logging.
<InHisName> s/in in/is in/
<ssweeny> InHisName, someone is trying a dictionary attack on your server
<InHisName> those ports 35739 and so on are all tested as 'stealthed' by shields up!   How is someone hooking into a stealthed port ?
<InHisName> Or is that HIS IP and port numbers ?
<ssweeny> InHisName, that's the remote port
<InHisName> Oh now makes more sense.   Is there clue which of my ports they are trying to punch on ?
<ssweeny> InHisName, my guess would be 22
<jthan> InHisName: just use shorewall and lock up your ports.. use pubkey auth for your ssh
<ssweeny> InHisName, that's the standard ssh port
<InHisName> Yes, I noticed I had left it 'open' a few days ago and forgot about it.  It is closed now.
<jedijf> switch port
<jthan> You could always use 443
<jthan> 52500
<InHisName> I am playing with web server on internal machine and connecting to port 80.    What can these .ru folks try to do in that port.
<InHisName> You all saying to use 443 or 52500 in place of 80 ?
<jedijf> leave it open; the F opyum team needs something to do
<ssweeny> if you change the port they'll have a harder time finding it
<InHisName> It might be tough on anyone who wanted to browse to that website if they did not know to postfix :52500 on end.
<ssweeny> right
<ssweeny> but if you're just playing with your own you can put it wherever you want
<MutantTurkey> why does he need all of this?
<MutantTurkey> j/w?
<jedijf> InHisName: mainly 22
<InHisName> But for next few weeks where no one will be browsing yet, sounds like at least good enough temporailly.
<jedijf> let them hammer your 80
<MutantTurkey> InHisName: intruders?
<MutantTurkey> just set a good password for ssh, lockout after 3 attempts.
<MutantTurkey> thats all.
<InHisName> aparently so.  I left 22 open for a few days.   No one was getting in only 2 users and really goofy passwords.
<jedijf> InHisName: and no root login
<jedijf> sshd.config
<jthan> yeah
<MutantTurkey> vim that baby!
<Resistance> sshd_config :/
<MutantTurkey> vim is 20 years old?
<MutantTurkey> jeez
<jthan> search for permitrootlogin
<InHisName> that machine does have a root.  Not ubuntu
<jedijf> for ssh you don't wnat to allow root login
<jedijf> root@inhisname.com would be a disaster
<InHisName> its all closed up now.   Now I've opened up port 80, should I change it to big port #?
<jedijf> InHisName: just change it(ssh)
<InHisName> ssh is closed 2 hours ago
<Resistance> InHisName:  fwiw, i moved my SSH traffic to 63329
 * Resistance chose a random port :P
<Resistance> i also use 2222 on occasion
<Resistance> depending on the setup
<InHisName> right now I don't need any ssh traffic from outside
<MutantTurkey> Resistance: not very secure now that we all know your port and IP address...
<Resistance> MutantTurkey:  i didnt say its to this system ;P
<MutantTurkey> sure sure
<InHisName> but NO bot logging here so not too awful
<Resistance> MutantTurkey:  you cant even be sure that's the correct port ;P
<jedijf> who cares, it's give you log monitor practice
<jedijf> then netstat and see the ircbots they install as crons
<jedijf> and john internally scanning itself
<jedijf> the compromised box
<jedijf> honeyd homework
<InHisName> Ok, now got big numbered port open and 80 closed.
<jedijf> InHisName: 80's not the problem, 22 was
<InHisName> I said a couple times that 22 got closed up and was asking about 80 and what to expect from that being open.   I close it about 4 hours ago now.
<InHisName> how come when I do 'last', I only get one line output.   The file grows larger after each login/logout.   Still only the first line is shown with last command.
<InHisName> I am running an older linux 2.6.16.12 with busybox doing the last command.
<JonathanD> waltman: new UPS works, holodeck is secure.
<jedijf> InHisName: try last -n5
<jedijf> for 5 lines(if they exist) man last for more info...-Fad may interest you
<waltman> JonathanD: excellent
<waltman> JonathanD: pleia2 seems to think she's in "Florida" this week, so I guess it's working
<JonathanD> I needed extra power for florida.
<waltman> understandable, what with all that heat down there
<JonathanD> Indeed.
<waltman> and emulating Disney must be tough
<JonathanD> waltman: emulating disney isn't the hard part.
<waltman> oh?
<JonathanD> Getting re-broadcast rights to do so is.
<waltman> it's not technically being broadcast, is it?
<JonathanD> it is, to lots of virtual people.
<JonathanD> Besides, the media companies think you should pay for broadcast licenses if animals can hear your music.
<waltman> oh, you mean that *you're* Disney?
<waltman> When my cousins went down there last month, that was YOU?
<JonathanD> There is no disney. ONly my basement.
<waltman> impressive!
<JonathanD> it's all a myth.
<waltman> That explains a LOT
<JonathanD> This is why it's always so crowded there.
<waltman> it explains the mouse motif
<JonathanD> I don't like mice.
<waltman> exactly!
<JonathanD> I haven't seen one (outside a pet store) in quite a while.
<JonathanD> Last time I saw one was I think at my parents house, when in high school...
<JonathanD> I shot it :/
<waltman> yow
<waltman> !
<JonathanD> oh wait
<JonathanD> last time was the mouse + snake?
<waltman> outside doesn't count
<waltman> that's NATURE
<JonathanD> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/47445571@N07/5041763415/in/photostream
<waltman> cute mouse + big scary snake
<JonathanD> https://secure.flickr.com/photos/47445571@N07/5041763249/in/photostream RAWR I AM DEATH SNAKE!
<waltman> at some point I figured out what kind of snake that was, but now I forget
<JonathanD> I recall
<JonathanD> waltman: apparently one that likes mice, though.
<waltman> many snakes like mice, no?
<waltman> I think I'd decided it was an Eastern Rat Snake
<JonathanD> it must have been confused
<JonathanD> as that isn't a rat.
<waltman> bah, no.
<waltman> eastern milk snake
<JonathanD> that isn't a milk eihter.
<waltman> wikipedia says they got the name because they're often found near barns
<waltman> of course, it's not a barn, either
<pleia2> it's actually not been very hot, so I don't think it's working very well
<JonathanD> hmmmm
<JonathanD> pleia2: isn't it supposed to be 20F above the norm wherever you travel?
<waltman> pleia2: the sizing algorithm for the parrots seems a little off, too
<pleia2> haha
 * pleia2 lurks in conference hallways
<pleia2> there is a lot of yuengling here, it's weird
<pleia2> clearly I'm in PA
<JonathanD> pleia2: beer is hard to simulate.
<pleia2> yeah
<JonathanD> Much easier to just use local stuff.
<waltman> JonathanD: Perhaps this explains why they switched to synthehol in the next gen series
<waltman> I'm beat today. I probably should've skipped Central.
<pleia2> I should have skipped that beer
#ubuntu-us-pa 2011-11-03
<waltman> !
<pleia2> I am tired :)
<rmg51> wouldn't the world come to an end if pleia2 started to skip beer?
<pleia2> lol
<Resistance> that would be bad
<Resistance> because then i'd be forced to drink the beer
<Resistance> and me + beer + weapons collection = warzone
<pleia2> oh dear
<waltman> One reason I'm tired is that I stayed up late finishing a book, and then posting a snarky review of it on amazon :)
<waltman> http://www.amazon.com/review/R1GX9P8HX562TI/ref=cm_cr_pr_perm?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0441014186&nodeID=&tag=&linkCode=
<pleia2> lol
 * sadin has new awesome thing goin on :D
<jthan> Anyone use zsh?
<waltman> jthan: I do
<jthan> Does it typically use less resources than bash?
<waltman> I've never noticed any difference, to be honest.
<pleia2> you are really concerned about the resources your interactive shell uses?
<jthan> Lol.
<jthan> waltman: I like zsh, but I'm always too lazy to really sit and configure it
<pleia2> just steal someone else's config, that's what everyone else does
<pleia2> I think only one person ever wrote a zsh config
<jthan> lol
<jthan> I miss all the fun we used to have in here
<waltman> pleia2: I think it was zenoli :)
<jthan> It was obviously someone named Adam
<waltman> how so?
<jthan> If you look at the default prompts.. there are two named "adam1" and "adam2"
<jthan> obviously he had time to make two prompts, and therefore also wrote the configuration
<waltman> I don't think I've ever seen the default prompt :)
<jthan> run "prompt -l"
<waltman> zsh: command not found: prompt
<jthan> well you got owned
<waltman> ?
<jthan> It doesn't like you
<waltman> ?
<jthan> It works for me
<waltman> not "_prompt"?
<waltman> type "which prompt"
<jthan> just "prompt"
<waltman> from the command line?
<jthan> waltman: http://paste2.org/p/1755199
<waltman> I think it's because I'm not autoloading promptinit
<jthan> could be
<jthan> I am
<jthan> :-p
<JonathanD> japan is considering building a spare for tokyo.
<JonathanD> A spare... city.
<jthan> lol
<jthan> Thanks for clarifying
<JonathanD> We are really behind on the whole "DR" thing.
<waltman> yep, that was it
<JonathanD> I'm going to have to talk to my boss tomorrow about building a spare conshohocken somewhere.
<JonathanD> http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/11/02/8601550-will-japan-build-a-backup-tokyo
<InHisName> jedijf: last -n5   gives help for my last.   Not supported.
<InHisName> ll
<InHisName> Going evil on us, now ?
<EvilResistance> :P
<MutantTurkey> oh boy
<MutantTurkey> InHisName will have your head.
<InHisName> what does this mean:    ----  Excess permission or bad ownership on file /var/log/btmp
<InHisName> wtmp and btmp have SAME owner & group & permissions   but btmp gets that error in messages
<InHisName> seems btmp needs to be diff from wtmp
<InHisName> permission set to 600 not 622 or 666 for btmp
<JonathanD> morning.
<rmg51> morning JonathanD
<JonathanD> morning rmg51
<rmg51> for a while there I thought you went back to sleep
<teddy-dbear> morning
<JonathanD> rmg51: sleep?
<teddy-dbear> sleep is for the weak and silly humans :-D
<InHisName> Good Morning to all of you and rmg51 and teddy-dbear and JonathanD and Joe_CoT
<waltman> good morning john-boy
<InHisName> when ntpd says:  adjusting local clock by -0.164255s   is it speeding up my clock or slowing it down ?
<waltman> umm, neither!
<waltman> I'd guess the clock is running a tad fast, so ntpd set it back about 1/8 of a second
<InHisName> 'k
<waltman> the clock itself should run at a constant speed
<MutantTurkey> yawn
<InHisName> pretty close to constant,  its about 1/8 once per hour of adjustment.
<jthan> My clock is forever wrong and I can't seem to fix it.
<jthan> says right now it's 15:39
<jthan> Timezone is set to my own...
<MutantTurkey> clock broken? sync to clock. profix
<jthan> sync to clock?
<waltman> ntpdate to set it, then ntpd to keep it set
<waltman> oh wait, you're 4 hours ahead? you're probably on gmt
<waltman> or utc, whatever.
<waltman> when you run "date" from the shell, what does it say?
<rhpot1991> jthan: I have issues where my ntp doesn't run at work
<rhpot1991> firewall access or something
<rhpot1991> so my clock gets off until I fix it at home, by running ntpdate ntp.ubuntu.com
<waltman> do they have an internal time server you can use?
<rhpot1991> dunno, I don't care too much
<rhpot1991> personal laptop on business network, not going to push too hard
<rhpot1991> ubuntu in a windows shop as well
<rhpot1991> lots that can go wrong if I ask too much :)
<waltman> nod :)
<jthan> rhpot1991: this is my linode, so.. idk.
<InHisName> quiet afternoon and evening.......
#ubuntu-us-pa 2011-11-04
<MutantTurkey> http://imgur.com/r/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu/U3oLO relevant
<MutantTurkey> (irrelevant)
<EvilResistance> lolwut?
<EvilResistance> whoever made this has too much time on their hands: http://imgur.com/r/fffffffuuuuuuuuuuuu/EPD8q
<InHisName> the time discussions this morning was more useful to apply to my and other computers than this stuff.
<InHisName> Still sleepin' away ?
<JonathanD> Morning.
<rmg51> morning JonathanD
<JonathanD> hi rmg51
<JonathanD> I dread daylight savings.
<rmg51> sleep through it
<JonathanD> heh :)
<rmg51> wake up again in March
<JonathanD> rmg51: the problem is I'll still be waking up at the same time :)
<JonathanD> oh, I like that idea.
<JonathanD> I'll tell the boss I'm going into hibernation.
<waltman> epic sunrise this morning
<JonathanD> yes it is.
<JonathanD> I was walking when it started, just stopped for a while.
<rmg51> missed it
<rmg51> but off to work now
<waltman> I was griping to myself about waking up at 7 and it still feeling like the middle of the night. Then I looked outside.
<waltman> rmg51: it's still going strong!
<JonathanD> I can see it from here.
<waltman> just look east, you can't miss it!
<JonathanD> poking over the houses.
<rmg51> I'll be driving east
<rmg51> later
<JonathanD> enjoy.
<anduril> I think I have too many tabs open. Chrome is up to 1Gb of memory
<teddy-dbear> morning
<ChinnoDog> morning--
<anduril> morning?
<JonathanD> our internet is down :/
<erstazi> hey, in vim, what does this character mean: ^@
<erstazi> nevermind, command ga says it is hex 00
<erstazi> damn nulls
<HowdyDoody> On my Unity is 'terminal' button, if I right-click  I see options "new terminal" and makes another terminal.   How to change home folder to offer NEW home folder when I want a 2nd copy of home folder ?
<ssweeny> HowdyDoody, middle-click on the icon to get a new instance
<HowdyDoody> Hmm, it works but must have 'noisy' mouse, I got TWO more windows pop up at once.
<HowdyDoody> Works great for both terminal and home folder.    I have to forget about right click method, new sometimes are not available.
#ubuntu-us-pa 2011-11-05
<jthan> Evening guys
<rmg51> o/
<jthan> What's crackin?
<rmg51> not much
<rmg51> I just figured out how to get my new printer to print wireless
<jthan> nice
<rmg51> LibreOffice was giving me trouble
<rmg51> I found out you have to set the printer up from within the app
<rmg51> no more switching cables :-D
<rmg51> Morning
<JonathanD> Morning.
<waltman> morning
<InHisName> good saturday morning
 * waltman yawns
<waltman> I'm ready for standard time. Getting tired of it being dark at 7:30.
<InHisName> what is sequence of files being loaded at VERY begining of booting linux ?
<InHisName> What loads before rc.conf ?   anything after it ?
<InHisName> Is there a nifty website that gives blow by blow from grub to login ?
<InHisName> googling: "details"  "grub to login"    hasn't turned up anything useful yet.
<anduril> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/cupsys/+bug/255161/comments/28 thats...awesome
#ubuntu-us-pa 2011-11-06
<jthan> Evening guys
<InHisName> evening jthan !  what exciting things you been up to lately ?
<waltman> andrew: that is indeed awesome
<InHisName> a wife complained a printer would not print on Tuesdays AND was right ?  Wow!  Might strange assessment that turned out spot on.
<pleia2> it's a classic
<InHisName> I type 'apache' into Software Center and get a bazzillion things.  What am I looking for when nagios app says need to have apache 2 installed first ?
<EvilResistance> InHisName:  trying to set up a webserver?
<EvilResistance> InHisName:  `apache2`
<InHisName> Just enough to satisfy a nagios install.
<InHisName> Oh wait next page they give apt-get stuff.   Nevermind, I'll skip the software center action tonight.
 * EvilResistance lols
<andrew> evening waltman
<jthan> andrew: !?
<jthan> You're ...
<jthan> ALIVE?
<EvilResistance> WHAT THE FSCK?!?!?
<EvilResistance> YOU'RE ALIVE?!?!?
<EvilResistance> P
<jthan> Q
<EvilResistance> Z!
<EvilResistance> :P
<andrew> jthan: Yes I am
<rmg51> Morning
<waltman> Morning.
<JonathanD> Morning.
<waltman> Nothing like waking up at 6:30 after 8 hours of sleep. We should fall back every Saturday night!
<InHisName> AHHHhhhhaaaa, the once a year 25 hour day.  Niiiice
<MutantTurkey> what is the usual "virtual machine" software these days?
<rmg51> virtual box
<MutantTurkey> ok :)
#ubuntu-us-pa 2012-10-29
<rmg51> from what I heard Septa is shutting down
<rmg51> and schools are closed
<rmg51> if this keeps up I'll have to stay home to baby sit Mom
<ChinnoDog> I am ready to survive on peebs
<ChinnoDog> I should run a load of dishes tonight while there is still power
<ChinnoDog> Also instructed my ice maker in my freezer to fill the tray
<rmg51> to put this laptop in hibernation or not
<ChinnoDog> My office is officially closed now
<ChinnoDog> hibernation vs suspend?
<rmg51> yep
<rmg51> if power goes out during the day and I'm at work, will the battery last long enough?
<rmg51> most likely it will
<ChinnoDog> Better to hibernate to get the maximum juice out
<rmg51> I'll wait till morning to decide
<waltman> pretty much everything's going to be closed in Philly until Wedneesday
<rmg51> not my place
<rmg51> it's always open
<rmg51> my boss is to dumb to know when to stay closed
<rmg51> there is always something to do
<rmg51> like pump water out of the basement :P
<waltman> Drexel's closed Monday and Tuesday
<waltman> to be honest it doesn't seem very stormy here yet.
<waltman> So one of the PhD students in my lab just sent out this email: "I have taken the servers down in preparation for the big storm.  They will not be back online until Wednesday at the earliest."
<waltman> We only have one server that I know of, and it also runs our website. Which is now offline.
<waltman> I don't understand the problem he's trying to solve by doing this.
<waltman> I can think of two problems -- losing power and a flood in the computer room. The first should be handled by the UPS. In case of the latter, the box is dead anyway.
<waltman> oh nice, the servers aren't on UPS.
<waltman> still, linux generally doesn't corrupt data when it loses power.
<rmg51> Morning
<anduril> morning all
<jedijf> roads are dead
<waltman> JonathanD: So trips to Ghana and Copenhagen weren't enough? You also had to toss in a Giants World Series win? You're not pretending about pleia2's holodeck anymore, are you?
<pleia2> he's letting me out after all this (I'll be in Philly next week)
<waltman> I'm just worried that your basement's going to flood and she's going to wake up and find out that the Yankees really won the Series.
<pleia2> :(
<waltman> enjoy it while you can! :)
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> I kind of feel bad for the tigers
<pleia2> just a little
<pleia2> apparently the game last night was good though :)
<waltman> I'd feel a bit more sympathy for Detroit fans if the Lions didn't beat the Eagles a few weeks ago. :)
<waltman> So far it's just wet here.
<JonathanD> :D
<anduril> so whats this about the atlantic city board walk going away?
<teddy-dbear> Hi peoples
<ChinnoDog> "going away"?
<ChinnoDog> Still not doing a whole lot out there
<waltman> ChinnoDog: where are you?
<ChinnoDog> Merrifield, VA
<waltman> ah
<waltman> I'm in the Philly burbs and it's just raining hard.
<Sadin> I hope we lose power at work
<Sadin> :)
<Sadin> well kick all out customers out and lock the doors and sit under the emergency lights and still get paid :D
<Sadin> mcdonalds logic, dont send anyone home, pay us for sitting in a dark in operational store
<waltman> http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/10/29/163874835/sandwich-monday-the-pb-p # keep this in mind when you start running out of food
<anduril> hmm play skyrim or borderlands 2 tonight
<anduril> haha al roker is getting blown around like a fool
<mikedep333> anduril, still happening
<mikedep333> hi all
<mikedep333> has anyone else viewed the new FEMA 2010-2011 draft flood maps?
<mikedep333> it uses google earth
<rmg51> power just came back on
<waltman> how long was it out?
<rmg51> went out around 4:22
#ubuntu-us-pa 2012-10-30
<ChinnoDog> I have not lost power yet
<teddy-dbear> stupid laptop froze up on me :P
<waltman> I've had some flickers but no real outages yet.
<ChinnoDog> Eat your ice cream while your freezer still has power.
<ChinnoDog> I am.
<anduril> yea we still (knock on wood) have power in harrisburg area
<waltman> I alrady had some!
<waltman> teddy-dbear: shouldn't you be getting ready to hibernate?
<teddy-dbear> not until after Halloween :-D
<waltman> Oh of course!
<waltman> Are your favorite candies Bit-O-Honeys?
<teddy-dbear> I'm all ready for trick or treat
<teddy-dbear> I'm a gangster bear this year
<teddy-dbear> I haz Milky Ways :-D
<ChinnoDog> I have a package of Oreos. In case of emergency peel back plastic flap.
<rmg51> to eat dinner or not to eat dinner
<waltman> eat while you still have power!
<ChinnoDog> This storm does not seem that bad and I am in the middle of it now.
<waltman> It looked really bad along the NJ shore, but not so bad in Philly.
<ChinnoDog> http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=lwx&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=no
<waltman> Morning.
<JonathanD> Morning waltman
<waltman> Yo.
<mikedep333> hurray
<mikedep333> I never lost power the entire night
<mikedep333> night/day
<mikedep333> there's underground power in my area
<anduril> we have above ground and somehow never lost it. I mean a train goes by and our UPS systems kick on but it only ever flickered last night
<jedijf> felt kinda bad calling comcast to cance 'Sports Entertainment' package today, but first chance I've had
<ChinnoDog> meh, sports
<waltman> pleia2: Your namesake is now a Disney Princess!
<pleia2> haha, so I've heard :)
<waltman> news travels fast across the pond!
#ubuntu-us-pa 2012-10-31
<jthan> Any botanists? :-p
<ChinnoDog> haha
<SamuraiAlba> Good bacon to all!
<JonathanD> Morning.
<jedijf> morning
<waltman> Morning.
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples
<rmg51> for those who care, the power is still out at home
<rmg51> took the day off yesterday to baby sit Mom
<rmg51> back to work today :-/
<InHisName> Well I'm back after a 'rude' removal.
<argv_turk> finally power :)
<JonathanD> power is good
<argv_turk> at temple... at least I can charge my phone before I go home to the wasteland
<argv_turk> It's pathetic how dependent on the grid we are
<argv_turk> Using my laptop to charge my families phones, it's really great
<argv_turk> the thinky has the charge usb while off feature
<JonathanD> yup
<JonathanD> back port, on mine.
<JonathanD> My phone won't charge off usb if it's dead already.
<JonathanD> Which is really, really lame.
<waltman> I saw someone suggest keeping an extra UPS or two around just to charge up devices in case of emergency.
<jedijf> waltman: yeah i saw that too - good idea
<jedijf> damn arch arm guy after-the-fact ideas
<ChinnoDog> I had a portable battery. I was golden.
<ChinnoDog> Duracell branded hard plastic wrapped sealed car battery with inverter built into it.
<rmg51> power is back on :-[
<InHisName> rmg51: you had bouncing power today?
<rmg51> InHisName: we haven't had power since 4:30PM Monday
#ubuntu-us-pa 2012-11-01
<InHisName> How come teddy-dbear was still on Monday until after 8pm ?
<InHisName> (08:01:25 PM) teddy-dbear: wanna bet nobody signs in tonight
<InHisName> I lost mine right after that
<rmg51> it came back for about 30 min.
<rmg51> then out till today around 3:30 PM
<waltman> InHisName: I'm guessing he's got redundant power in his hibernation cave.
<InHisName> That's what a UPS is supposed to be...  At least for a few minutes / hours.....
<rmg51> Morning
<JonathanD> Morning.
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples
<waltman> teddy-dbear: Did you lay in a supply of chocolate last night for your hibernation?
<teddy-dbear> I always have chocolate 8-)
<teddy-dbear> how do you expect me to survive without chocolate?
<waltman> Well, I figured you'd need even more for hibernation :)
<teddy-dbear> you need it before you hibernate
<teddy-dbear> live off the fat of the body
<teddy-dbear> time for a nap
<waltman> teddy-dbear: a long winter nap?
 * TheLordOfTime yawns
<Samuraialba> Good bacon to all and to all some good bacon
<ChinnoDog> I don't have any bacon
<Samuraialba> poop
<Samuraialba> I got a new rack server :)
<Samuraialba> Dual Quad Xeon 1.86 L5320.  4GB RAM 160GB HD.  1U Slim rack :)
<Samuraialba> $175
<Samuraialba> Ubuntu server going on it
<Samuraialba> or a bare metal VM then Ubuntu and Windows
#ubuntu-us-pa 2012-11-02
<sgtnasty> no meeting then?
<JonathanD> Hi.
<JonathanD> Are we supposed to have a meeting?
<sgtnasty>  its on my cal
<JonathanD> Oh.
<JonathanD> I see
<rmg51> we have meetings?
<JonathanD> Theres at least 3 of us here.
 * JonathanD raps his gavel
<sgtnasty> quorum?
<JonathanD> I move that we all switch to windows 8.
<JonathanD> All in favour?
<sgtnasty> weeee
 * teddy-dbear shoots JonathanD
<sgtnasty> i bet they move to window 9 soon
<sgtnasty> then Windows X
<sgtnasty> so we can all be like apples
<teddy-dbear> will Microsoft last that long?
<sgtnasty> good point
<rmg51> MS needs to put an option to boot right to the desktop
<JonathanD> rmg51: the win8 desktop?
<rmg51> not a fan of Metro
<JonathanD> neither am I
<sgtnasty> yeah i want to run my laptop like a phone, who's idea was this?
<teddy-dbear> wasn't mine
<sgtnasty> im not so sure teddy-bear
<sgtnasty> stuffed animals = swipe interface
<teddy-dbear> if I don't like Unity, what makes you think I would like Metro?
<sgtnasty> i want my gnome-panel back :(
<rmg51> go to Mint
 * adom still runs 10.04 ;)
<rmg51> you have to choice of three
<adom> for another few months... :(
<rmg51> one of them is the "old" Gnome panel
<rmg51> for navigation
<TCorwin> Hello. Does anyone know any good topics for a presentation on Ubuntu? I'm looking for things that would answer "What is it?" and "How do I get started?" and "How do i use this?". Any help would be appriciated.
<JonathanD> hmmm
<teddy-dbear> looks like we are done for the night
<teddy-dbear> time for me to go back to my very important teddy bear things
<teddy-dbear> nite-nite
 * InHisName notes that he is still around
<mikedep333> hmm, wow
<mikedep333> installing routing updates for Fedora 17 upgraded the kernel from 3.5.x to 3.6.x
<Sadin> Im so excited to be helping Xubuntu :)
<mikedep333> now I know why they call Fedora "Red Hat Unstable"
<mikedep333> Sadin, how so?
<Sadin> mikedep333 oh i love fedora :P
<mikedep333> spreading the love for classic desktop environments?
<Sadin> ummmmm mikedep333 well i helpw ith shimmer the people who make the default xubuntu themes and ive been assigned to build a default Xubuntu conky config
<mikedep333> yeah, I actually reformatted my home server with CentOS6 when my HDD with Ubuntu 12.04 failed
 * mikedep333 googles conky
<mikedep333> cool
<Sadin> normally i just touch up the icons lol
<JonathanD> Morning.
<JonathanD> hey stump
<JonathanD> /249/249
<rmg51> Morning
<JonathanD> hi rmg51
<JonathanD> how goes?
<rmg51> o/
<waltman> Morning
<JonathanD> hey walt
<waltman> hey
<JonathanD> had a five guys burger last night. Been a while :P
<jedijf> JonathanD: they are pretty good - i don't have them enough either it seems
<jedijf> morning
<JonathanD> jedijf: Gino's out my way is comparable, and has chicken sandwiches with the same "all the fixins" kind of thing.
<jedijf> ginos was a let down for me, not like i remember it
<jedijf> i wanted the 1970's giant
<jedijf> want
<jedijf> need
<JonathanD> jedijf: my understanding is old-ginos was more of a mcdonalds clone.
<JonathanD> But uh, I wasn't there :P
<jedijf> i would even take their at the end hero burger
<jedijf> the giant was the mac
<JonathanD> the giant now is more a five guys clone.
<JonathanD> The chicken is really good, though.
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples
<jedijf> the hero was a buger on a current bk chicken sandwich roll
<jedijf> morning
 * waltman had a gino's chickem sammich last night :)
<waltman> also chicken
<waltman> the original giant was more of a big mac clone, but better
<JonathanD> waltman: figures. We almost went there, too. :p
<JonathanD> waltman: went to five guys across the street in the mall.
<waltman> They make a fine chicken sammich.
<Samuraialba> good bacon to all!
<InHisName> Samuraialba: been to any EpicMealTime web sites lately especially the ones dealing with bacon ?
<Samuraialba> not I
<JonathanD> waltman: wonder if there is clear access at the library.
<waltman> JonathanD: No idea.
<JonathanD> I could bring my home box along.
<waltman> It's really annoying to me that it's so locked down, because it limits how much work I can get done when I'm there.
<JonathanD> and an AP
<JonathanD> and we'd have open internet.
<waltman> Don't go to too much trouble.
<JonathanD> waltman: I get antsy without irc.
<waltman> ah :)
<waltman> I can still run Colloquy on my phone :)
<JonathanD> waltman: it's only a few hundred feet from a tower
<TCorwin> Good afternoon everyone! I was wondering, does anyone have any good topics to talk about at a presentation about Ubuntu? I'm hosting a presentation that is open to the public in western PA. There will be some newbies to Ubuntu as well as people who have never heard of Ubuntu. I'm not exactally sure what to talk with them about.
<JonathanD> Hey TCorwin
<TCorwin> Hello JonathanD
<jedijf> TCorwin: seems that you need to start with what is linux - then ways to try linux - then a brief overview of a linux desktop (your choice)
<jedijf> how long do you plan your presentation to be?
<TCorwin> jedigf, my presentation is approximately 2 hours and the main topic is "Ubuntu 12.04/12.10: What Is It and How Do You Use It?"
<jedijf> unfortunately the amount covered is determined by the unknown variable of the attendees, but those 3 parts i mentioned are a good start - ending with how to get help via mailing lists, forums, and irc
<jedijf> much like you did ;)
<jedijf> emphasis on part 2 - ways to try linux -
<jedijf> and the end - what to do when you think you're alone - but you're really not
<TCorwin> I'm assuming that the amount of attendees will be as little as 10 people at the most. I originally tried to get help from the ubuntu-us-pa mailing list, but to no avail. This is my first time using irc, so it took me awhile to get the hang of it. I was also wondering if there are any "free" CD distributions of 12.04 that i could hand out as a starter. i could also possibly send you my presentation after i am finished for a review 
<jedijf> TCorwin: i saw your email - was going to respond over the weekend, if possible - when is the presentation?
<TCorwin> the presentation is on November 15th.
<JonathanD> You have no idea on audience composition though?
<JonathanD> Is this an existing group of some sort you'll be presenting to?
<jedijf> if you email an adress at jedijf at myfisher dot org i'll send 10 12.10 dvd's
<jedijf> you could always burn some 12.04's
<jedijf> show how to make a bootable live usb stick so they can try
<TCorwin> JonathanD: i do not know the composition. And i will be a standalone presenter. I am just doing a presentation to the open public. Anyone can come, no one specific.
<TCorwin> jedijf: thank you. I will email you here soon with an address. The only reason i asked, is because i dont have any cds. And i was going to show them that as well.
<jedijf> keep it simple - stay within what *you* know - if you don't know, tell them that
<jedijf> the first part - what is linux - go fast - no one really cares - part 2 how they can try - make sure they are getting, or slow down - look for deer in headlight look - virtual - live cd - live dvd - live usb - etc - part 3 depends on your desktop pick - part 4 (HELP) is most vital so they can continue
<jedijf> on their own
<ChinnoDog> Are DDOS attacks random or are they targeted?
<Samuraialba> Good bacon to all!
<ChinnoDog> Isn't all bacon good bacon?
<Samuraialba> Turkey Bacon
<Samuraialba> 'Nuff said
<Samuraialba> Server nifty
<Samuraialba> Just need 24GB of ram ordered
<ChinnoDog> You must be building a supercomputer.
<Samuraialba> nah
<Samuraialba> Dual Quad Core Xeon L5320's at 1.83Ghz, 160GB drive.. has 4 GB now
<Samuraialba> Gonna run VMs on it and PFSense
#ubuntu-us-pa 2012-11-03
 * jthan yawns
 * Sadin coughs
<jthan> Don't get me sick
<jthan> that's awful
<Sadin> lol
<Sadin> not sick anymore had a respitory infection 2 1/2 weeks ago
<Sadin> now my athsma keeps a persistant cough around
<jthan> That stinks.
<rmg51> Morning
<TheLordOfTime> bleh
<waltman> Morning?
<TheLordOfTime> did i mention bleh?
<waltman> Yes, yes you did.
<waltman> http://www.funnyjunk.com/funny_pictures/2101968/Snow/
<JonathanD> morning
<jthan> erstazi: Algae?
<erstazi> jthan: yes sir
<erstazi> jthan: personally, I like hydrogen.
<erstazi> and donuts
<jthan> I have a friend whose Mom works for Air Products. They have a hydrogen car that she tests for them. It was pretty cool but still not refined enough.
<erstazi> well, sometimes, donuts
<erstazi> jthan: well, every month it seems that people are developing new ways to generate hydrogen. Everyone thinks you still need natural gas. Hydrogen has great potential but the biggest problem is the lack of distribution. Many companies are investing into compressed natural gas and hydrogen though so this can change.
<jthan> erstazi: Oh I'm with you!
<jthan> It's the same with things like flexfuel.. great bridge to cleaner/cheaper fuel.. not available anywhere aside from the midwest it seems
<jedijf> full circle mag python spec editions: http://fullcirclemagazine.org/python-special-edition-1/
<jedijf> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2011/05/04/surprise-python-special-edition-02/
<jedijf> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2012/01/21/python-special-edition-volume-03/
<jedijf> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2012/04/13/python-special-edition-volume-04/
<jedijf> if #4 doesn't work here is direct dl: http://dl.fullcirclemagazine.org/issuePY04_en.pdf
<ChinnoDog> bacon
#ubuntu-us-pa 2012-11-04
<waltman> Morning?
<rmg51> Morning
 * waltman is using his extra hour this morning to do some laundry. LIKE A BOSS.
<rmg51> I'm doing what I usually do on Sunday morning.....
<rmg51> going for a walk, only later then usual
<waltman> rmg51: later...or EARLIER? :)
<rmg51> and not because of daylight savings time
<rmg51> I just over slept :P
<waltman> I forgot to change my clocks last night, but woke up extra early anyway.
<JonathanD> Mine changes itself.
<JonathanD> Unfortunatly, it does so a week early.
<waltman> I've got a lot of old-fashioned clocks.
<InHisName> I just stayed up an hour longer.  Still got < 5hours when Joseph woke me up at 6:15am std time
<ChinnoDog> Could have had an extra hour but noo, went to bed an hour later instead.
<waltman> So we have a phl.pm meeting scheduled for tomorrow night at 7. We meet in the CS department at U Penn.  I learned this morning that at 5 PM, Bill Clinton will be speaking at a campaign rally a block away.
#ubuntu-us-pa 2013-10-28
<rmg51> Morning
<JonathanD> Morning.
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys and everything else
<KyleYankan> mmm, Turkey season is coming up.
<teddy-dbear> indeed it is :-D
<InHisName> Is it time to start shooting your seasons for you turkey ?
<InHisName> s/you/your/
<KyleYankan> Almost. Nov 2, if I recall
<KyleYankan> Usually they do a week in begnining of november, and a few days/week at the end of november
<KyleYankan> but it varies by WMU. I'm only familiar with my hunting grounds
<jedijf> ChinnoDog: eyes doing better?
<jedijf> hmm,
 * jedijf screams ChinnoDog, eyes doing better?
<ChinnoDog> lol
<ChinnoDog> Yes, I can see again.
<ChinnoDog> The angel of migraines has departed.
<jedijf> cool
<ChinnoDog> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fran39/8119461023/lightbox/
<jedijf> i was almost gonna post, go to the emergency room
<ChinnoDog> Nah. It has happened before.
<ChinnoDog> This was the second time.
<jedijf> get this, http://statigr.am/p/340740931385814663_193113066
<jedijf> my wife bought it for our daughter (don't think daughter ever wore it)
<ChinnoDog> lol
<ChinnoDog> What is that supposed to do?
<jedijf> no idea...she just buys /everything/
<jedijf> it has a new purpose - makes for funny instagram photos
<ChinnoDog> Reminds me of the helmet Natalie Portman wears in Garden State
<ChinnoDog> ...except that a helmet for seizures seems more plausible.
<ChinnoDog> If you suddenly lose consciousness from a migraine I think you need to go to a doctor.
<jedijf> i think there's some massage/cold..something going on - it's soft, like fleece and plugged in
<ChinnoDog> Plugged in? lol
<jedijf> or battery...but definitely powered somehow
<ChinnoDog> I think I'll stick with ibuprofen and turning the lights off.
#ubuntu-us-pa 2013-10-29
<hackfu> Hello
<ChinnoDog> hi
<jthan> HI
<InHisName> Hi
<JonathanD> Morning.
<rmg51> Morning
<JonathanD> Howdy
<rmg51> o/
<JonathanD> comcast is horrible.
<rmg51> always
<JonathanD> Trying to watch walking dead.
<JonathanD> go to comcast site "uh-oh, you're not signed in"
<JonathanD> click on sign in "you're already signed in"
<JonathanD> go to watch a show "you're not signed in"
<JonathanD> Go to sign in "unauthorized access detected, dispatching swat team"
<JonathanD> swat team arrives, only fires a few hundred rounds before saying "oh
<JonathanD> nevermind he was signed in the whole time"
<JonathanD> Now they're sitting here watching it with me.
<waltman> JonathanD: isn't "Walking Dead" at 6 AM kind of redundant?
<JonathanD> waltman: not for me.
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys?, and everything else
<teddy-dbear> and a special good morning to the swat team at JonathanDs
<cyberanger> oh lol
<cyberanger> wow JonathanD fun morning
<jedijf> but did they bring snacks?
<jthan> It's rainy and cold here :-(
<jthan> SOMEONE ACKNOWLEDGE MY INFINITE SADNESS
<JonathanD> hi
<square-r00t> http://www.amazon.com/Mellon-Collie-Infinite-Sadness-2012/dp/B00AEVQZWC/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1383065274&sr=8-2&keywords=melon+collie+and+the+infinite+sadness
<square-r00t> there
<square-r00t> acknowledged.
<jthan> A great album, no doubt.
<square-r00t> http://news.slashdot.org/story/13/10/28/2210220/ubuntus-mark-shuttleworth-wins-austrias-big-brother-award
<jthan> I think I'm going to just start working my way to the top and I'm going to be a kernel dev
<square-r00t> do it
#ubuntu-us-pa 2013-10-30
<rmg51> Morning
<JonathanD> Morning rmg51
<JonathanD> Day 2 :D
<rmg51> so how goes the new job?
<JonathanD> Good so far.
<JonathanD> I actually got to build something first day, which is nice. Most of the day was paperwork.
<JonathanD> well perhaps not most :P
<rmg51> is the swat team still hanging around?
<JonathanD> Nah
<JonathanD> They went home last night, when the comcast signal dropped out.
<rmg51> good ole Comcast
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys and everything else
<JonathanD> morning.
<InHisName> Mawnin'
<calvin_> what is the vps that everyone users?
<calvin_> uses?
<jedijf> calvin_: linode
<JonathanD> calvin_: linode
<JonathanD> calvin_: get someones referral code if you use them though :P
<waltman> calvin_: linode
<JonathanD> Microsoft Windows Azure (tm)
<jedijf> and in fairness check out orange - or a small orange of something
<jedijf> http://asmallorange.com/hosting/cloud/
<calvin_> linode
<calvin_> thanks
#ubuntu-us-pa 2013-10-31
<rmg51> Morning
<JonathanD> Howdy.
<waltman> Foggy out there.
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys and everything else
<ChinnoDog> morning
 * ChinnoDog noms a waffle
<InHisName> Hey I am using ffmpeg and avconv to messs with some videos.   I want to convert to a plain vanilla movie that can be played by the oldest XP unmodified.   Will it play at least one movie format ?
<InHisName> I want to send a movie to someone who wont do installs and runs XP pretty plain from the box.
<rmg51> xp should play many formats
<rmg51> avi should be a safe bet
#ubuntu-us-pa 2013-11-01
<InHisName> Randy is gone for now,   so anyone else know about video questions ?
<InHisName> both .MOV and .avi files are 'containers' that hold video and audio codec portions.   What codecs are in a "stock" avi that windows will play straight out of the 'box' ?   Clean install XP with no installed extra codecs.
<JonathanD> Morning.
<rmg51> Morning
<JonathanD> hi rmg51
<rmg51> InHisName, use xvid
<rmg51> hi jon
<rmg51> forgot to hit tab
<JonathanD> doing 13.10 upgrade :)
<rmg51> I'm going to do a clean install over the weeend
<rmg51> I had a bad upgrade on my old laptop :-(
<rmg51> froze in the middle of the install
<rmg51> now won't boot
<JonathanD> :(
<InHisName> Xvid is an open source codec,  will WinXP play this out of the box ?  What about audio ? wma ?
<InHisName> Oh, yes, good morning rmg51 and others
<InHisName> be back after 8
<rmg51> should
<rmg51> there is always vlc
<rmg51> for audio I've been using mp3lame
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys and everything else
<InHisName> I have vlc on one xp box but had to install it separately from WinXP install.
 * ChinnoDog yawns
<InHisName> I would like to test a VoIP line I installed on my android phone.  Calling my home phone only one way worked from my sip phone.   Want to test more numbers.  Any game ?
<JonathanD> InHisName: it only worked one way?
<JonathanD> who's your carrier?
<InHisName> The sip one is didlogic.com,   I probably have error in setup, maybe.  Want to test further to see if really so.
<InHisName> Just need a number to call with answerer knowing what's up.
<JonathanD> you can call mine.
<ChinnoDog> InHisName: check your ICE and STUN settings
<JonathanD> you can even call my voip if you want :P
<InHisName> pass me a number to call for either (pm?)
<ChinnoDog> I have to enable both ICE and STUN to get mine to work consistently
<ChinnoDog> Even with it enabled I get silence sometimes and have to redial.
<InHisName> Hmmm,
<InHisName> That call went quite well, something funny with sip vs our land line.  Have to check farther.
<square-r00t> InHisName: meaning you can hear what's said into the android but can't hear the caller on the landline?
<wyattderp> Hey guys///
<wyattderp> Any one on here good with android? - I'm trying to connect my dev tablet upto my desktop but its not registering in DDMS on  android debugging bridge.. >.>
#ubuntu-us-pa 2013-11-02
<rmg51> Morning
<waltman> yup
<jediael_> My video card is not installing and everytime i try to install it i cant log in please help! ATI Radeon 3200 ubuntu 13.10.
#ubuntu-us-pa 2013-11-03
<JonathanD> Morning.
<rmg51> Morning
<JonathanD> hi rmg51
<rmg51> hi JonathanD
<rmg51> well, that went bad
<rmg51> just reinstalled 13.10 on my old computer
<rmg51> lost the mouse
<rmg51> i can't even get a command prompt
<jedijf> rmg51: explain lost the most - do you have gui with no mouse?
<rmg51> yep
<jedijf> alt f2 terminal
<rmg51> doesn't work
<jedijf> or gnome-termina;
<rmg51> neither work
<rmg51> can't type
<rmg51> the prompt doesn't come up
<rmg51> trying reinstall again
<jedijf> alt f2 will bring up "enter command"
<rmg51> this time without saving anything
<jedijf> try alt f2 top
<rmg51> clean install
<rmg51> can't
<rmg51> doing a clean install
<rmg51> also, no internet
<rmg51> not even wired
<rmg51> if this doesn't work I may have to try xubuntu
<rmg51> or even mint
<rmg51> that's better
<rmg51> got a working mouse
<rmg51> not sure about internet yet
<rmg51> got a wired connection
<rmg51> wireless is not working
<rmg51> keeps disconnecting
<rmg51> got it
<rmg51> stupid netgear
<rmg51> keeping the old settings was not a good idea
<rmg51> clean install works
<rmg51> now all I have to do is remember a new password :P
#ubuntu-us-pa 2014-10-27
<rmg51> Morning
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys, hamsters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2014-10-28
<rmg51> Morning
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys, hamsters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2014-10-29
<InHisName> Good almost morning
<rmg51> Morning
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys, hamsters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2014-10-30
<rmg51> Morning
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys?, hamsters and everything else
<ChinnoDog> Can I mount a partition so the metadata is read-only but I can still write to files?
<waltman> Doesn't writing to files change the metadata?
#ubuntu-us-pa 2014-10-31
<ChinnoDog> Not if access time stamps are disabled and the file size doesn't change.
<waltman> So all you want to do is change a few bytes?
<rmg51> Morning
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, dogs, turkeys?, hamsters and everything else
<ChinnoDog> ionice + nautilus = win
#ubuntu-us-pa 2014-11-01
<rmg51> nice..... looks like Unity is broken
<rmg51> and
<rmg51> xfce won't let me change wallpaper! :P
<rmg51> stupid upgrades
<rmg51> looks like I won't be upgrading Teddy's laptop or mine
#ubuntu-us-pa 2015-10-26
<ChinnoBunny> lazypower: Are you concerned about security on Dropbox?
<lazypower> I use ecryptfs to secure things I wish to remain private
<lazypower> And I also dont put the launch codes on dropbox
<lazypower> pleia2 ftfy
<ChinnoDog> That seems a little inconvenient
<lazypower> Not at all
<ChinnoDog> I noticed that Spideroak is linux compatible, client side encrypted, and only $5/mo on a group plan with unlimited storage.
<ChinnoDog> cryptfs on dropbox only seems inconvenient because then I have to select specific folders to share and then decrypt those folders on every client.
<lazypower> *shrug* I dont find it that inconvenient to selective share. but thats my perference
<lazypower> i use maybe 2 machines that need access to that folder
<lazypower> and my handset
<ChinnoDog> Anyone here use a bare metal cloud provider?
<ChinnoDog> I signed up for one to poke around. I've never had so much buyers remorse. lol
<ChinnoDog> I should try a bigger one.
<jthan> Why buyers remorse?
<r00t^2> the plot thickens
<r00t^2> wait,
<r00t^2> "bare metal" and "cloud" are...
<r00t^2> exact opposites.
<ChinnoDog> They are not exact opposites. Just because clouds are commonly facilitated by full system virtualization does not mean it is required to gain the flexibility or resource isolation that large public clouds have.
<ChinnoDog> I signed up for access that required a $20 deposit but the service was not close to fully baked. I gave up before completing my first test.
<r00t^2> ChinnoDog: no, it is- because at that point, it's big iron, not cloud. cloud is intentionally abstracted
<ChinnoDog> r00t^2: What would it matter to you if the AWS instance types were actually hardware configurations? Everything else would work the same.
<r00t^2> ChinnoDog: first off, that depends on the virt method; not all is created (or implemented) equally. secondly, shared NIC port. thirdly, hypervisor security vulnerabilities
<ChinnoDog> There isn't a strict definition of "bare metal" so far as I know so lots of different interpretations are possible.
<r00t^2> bare metal literally means hardware. that's... exactly what it means.
<ChinnoDog> Hardware can share resources too
<ChinnoDog> Like multiple disks on the same bus connected to different motherboards.
<r00t^2> but it's still equally accessible to the OS.
<ChinnoDog> Yes. The only way you would know it is bare metal is that there is no virtualization required in software.
<r00t^2> and if it isn't, then those disks are probably a SAN, and thus not actually a part of the machine
<r00t^2> ChinnoDog: i invite you to do yum -y install virt-what && virt-what then
<r00t^2> plus, like i said- it entirely depends on the hypervisor.
<r00t^2> virtual NIC interfacign as exposed to guests, for one
<ChinnoDog> What depends on the hypervisor?
<r00t^2> 18:33:07 < ChinnoDog> Yes. The only way you would know it is bare metal is that there is no virtualization required in software.
<r00t^2> in many cases, a simple smartctl -a or cat /proc/cpuinfo or dmidecode or ifconfig -a (or ip l s, for the hepcats) will tell you "oh hey, this is virtualized"
<ChinnoDog> You could make default drivers work but other parts of the real machine won't work. Virtualization instructions for example.
<r00t^2> i'm sorry, i think i missed your point. what exactly are you arguing here?
<ChinnoDog> Though VMware now allows nested virtualization I think.
<ChinnoDog> I'm not arguing anything!
<r00t^2> most do but it requires hardware that supports it and needs to be enabled via the hypervisor
<r00t^2> so you're just saying random thoughts, or..?
<r00t^2> because my point is there is a clear and determinable difference between physical hardware and a virtualized environment
<ChinnoDog> I was just looking for a bare metal cloud provider. That is all.
<ChinnoDog> I don't think it is that clear. How do you define the separation of the two?
<r00t^2> right, and my ORIGINAL point is that doesn't exist- if they're selling it as such, they're using buzzwords rather than the actual tech behind the associated buzzwords
<r00t^2> ChinnoDog: i literally just send like, 5 lines explaining how the guest knows it's in a virt environment
<ChinnoDog> In that case a dedicated CPU with shared disk, memory, and IO channels should qualify as dedicated hardware so long as you can't tell in software, right?
<r00t^2> no, it's just virtualized with dedicated resources
<ChinnoDog> What is the difference between "virtualized" and "multiplexed"? There are lots of devices sharing the PCI bus. We don't call them virtualized.
<r00t^2> because it's all at the same level of access. it's equal-level. or same-"ring" if you want to use quasi-outdated terminology
<r00t^2> virtualized is done in-hardware. softraid, for instance, is virtualized raid- but we don't call it that, because we have a special name for it. but it's handled by the kernel, not "ring-(-1)"
<ChinnoDog> I think the "ring" concept is going to break down when we scrutinize it. I think we can say that an entire system connected to the rest of the world via a NIC, real or otherwise, is dedicated. But if the system is intermingled with components outside of its control then even if it appears as an isolated system it is not.
<r00t^2> (well, that's why the ring model is outdated, but the abstraction will have to do for now)
<r00t^2> and i won't say that either- you can physically dedicate a single NIC to a virtual instance
<r00t^2> if you're talking about clustered computing, though, we have a special term for that too. :)
<ChinnoDog> You can but it doesn't necessarily have any impact on the performance characterisics. Depends where you think the network terminates. Does it terminate on a proprietary I/O chip or does it terminate when the packet reaches memory?
<r00t^2> it terminates on the physical endpoint. OSI-0
<ChinnoDog> "virtual" raid doesn't really tell us much either except that you can't access it through INT13 extensions. Performance wise high end raid cards offload some of the computational work but there isn't any reason you couldn't offload it using the CPU and other system resources.
<r00t^2> that doesn't make softraid a physical raid though- you may be conflating what i'm saying. if i were running a high-write multi-access DB on that raid, you better believe i'm buying a dedicated chip for it- but that doesn't still make softraid "real" raid
<ChinnoDog> Anyway, all I really wanted was a Windows system I could run VirtualBox on with a 64-bit version of CentOS.
<r00t^2> http://joesdatacenter.com/ have fun
#ubuntu-us-pa 2015-10-27
<rmg51> Morning
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<lazypower> ChinnoDog r00t^2 - that was some nice banter. MAAS turns bare metal into a "cloud" - it enables elastic scaling, network provisioning, segmenting, (As of 1.9 bonded nic support!!!)
<lazypower> and placing a juju state server, you can then go full iron, full container, full kvm, or even go so far as to put openstack on top of it, and then juju drive that openstack install
<lazypower> cloud is synonymous with what, an API to request resources on another persons machine, and get some abstractions for constraints like disk space, cpu, memory, network segment
<lazypower> a BM cloud provider should have all of these facilities. I run one in my basement for testing K8's, big data, and the other charms i'm responsible for
<lazypower> plus a pretty stellar TV automation suite since i cut the cord a while ago
<ChinnoDog> lazypower: Do you know any good BM public clouds though? Where do you expect people to deploy juju on BM besides their data centers?
<lazypower> In order to deploy on BM you're doing one of two things. You're using MAAS to provide the API as the translation between juju and your BM layer. Or you're doing it with the manual provider
<lazypower> lots of DC's have adopted MAAS - but it is indeed private cloud for the most part. I dont know of many BM public clouds. Its cost prohibitive. A lot of the businesses i interface with that are doing BM deployments, are doing it as legacy infrastructure, automating with CM tooling like puppet/chef, and manually racking
<lazypower> then carving those up with KVM units, LXD containers, Docker, et-al
<lazypower> so its a clear dividing line in customer
<lazypower> those that want the full gambit of automation invest the time in setting up a cluster-controller to turn those rackmounts into assets vs pets
#ubuntu-us-pa 2015-10-28
<rmg51> Morning
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<ChinnoDog> Who plays Civ 5 on Steam that I do not have added as a friend?
#ubuntu-us-pa 2015-10-29
<rmg51> Morning
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<ChinnoDog> afternoon
<ChinnoDog> Microsoft released Powershell for Linux as open source on Github?
<ChinnoDog> And Azure supports Hadoop on Ubuntu
#ubuntu-us-pa 2015-10-30
<rmg51>  Morning
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<L3gacy> morning
#ubuntu-us-pa 2016-10-31
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<InHisName> 22 people here and only teddy-dbear seems to initiate conversations on occasion
<ssweeny> Idling on IRC is a time-honored tradition
#ubuntu-us-pa 2016-11-01
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2016-11-02
 * princedimond pokes aroudn from time to time 
<princedimond> i tend to just make peaches mad though XD cause a song comes to my head every time
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<icey> ahoy
#ubuntu-us-pa 2016-11-03
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<icey> ahoy
#ubuntu-us-pa 2016-11-04
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<icey> ahoy
<swift110> hey
<jthan> \o
<jthan> How's it going?
<swift110> how are you jthan
<jthan> Not too bad. Updating the final pieces of our infrastructure today in terms of new monitoring. I'm excited for this project to be done.
<swift110> cool
<jthan> How about you?
<swift110> im great
<swift110> where are you from
<jthan> Originally PA!  I got my "start" in this channel way back in the day. I live in Colorado now. I came out here for college and now stayed as an employee at the University
<teddy-dbear> I would have said outer space ;-)
<swift110> thats cool
<jthan> haha
<swift110> lol
#ubuntu-us-pa 2016-11-05
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2016-11-06
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2017-10-30
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else\
#ubuntu-us-pa 2017-10-31
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2017-11-01
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2017-11-02
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<ChinnoDog> Anyone have a favorite site for creating online surveys?
<jthan> waltman: https://developers.slashdot.org/story/17/11/01/089200/perl-is-the-most-hated-programming-language-developers-say
<jthan> waltman: I think you're gonna need to find a new language.
<pleia2> ChinnoDog: Google Forms ;)
<jthan> ChinnoDog: +1 ^
<jthan> I thought I had already replied and said that
<pleia2> don't worry, it's evening here so I'm awake
<jthan> We let our users vote on a new name for the cluster when we rebuilt it (yesterday and today)
<jthan> My name lost :-(
<jthan> So it's called fiji now.
<jthan> but I wanted islay because scotch.
<pleia2> also fiji is boring, you should never let mortals vote
<jthan> Yeah, I know!
<jthan> Pando was way cooler than Fiji.
<jthan> Pando == largest living aspen grove on earth
<pleia2> nice
<waltman> jthan: Saw that already. Sounds like a very scientific survey.
 * ChinnoDog plays with Google Forms
<ChinnoDog> When you let people vote the pick names like Boaty McBoatface
<ChinnoDog> s/the/they/
<jthan> well we had predefined options
<jthan> but also democracy
<waltman> ChinnoDog: You say that like it's a bad thing.
<ChinnoDog> imho it was fine and they should have lived with it. Obviously it wasn't really a democratic decision since they ignored the vote and picked the one they wanted.
<ChinnoDog> false_democracy--
<waltman> Whatever you say, ChinnoDog McChinnoDoggyface :)
<ChinnoDog> Awhile back at work they had a logo contest. After they received a bunch of submissions they decided none of them were good enough. When they ran the contest again I just rolled my eyes.
<waltman> lame
<swift110> hey all
<ChinnoDog> hi swift110
#ubuntu-us-pa 2017-11-03
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<JonathanD> Morning.
#ubuntu-us-pa 2017-11-04
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2017-11-05
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2019-10-28
<ChinnoDog> My upgrade did net go well either. Laptop crashed during update and is now unbootable.
<ChinnoDog> I probably have the nvidia problem. Every major upgrade results in nvidia quirks for me.
<ChinnoDog> I fixed it. Just had to chroot into it and let it finish upgrading. idk why it croaked half way through. There were lvm errors on my screen before I fixed.
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<ChinnoDog> Install on ZFS is now supported. Are we headed in that direction? I haven't seen any new developments in btrfs in a while which makes me wonder if development has stalled.
<waltman> Is it "supported" already? I thought it was still in beta, or maybe even alpha.
<ChinnoDog> It is apparently an option in the 19.10 installer now.
<ChinnoDog> If that is the road we are headed down I will start using it but in terms of performance it has some catching up to do.
<waltman> I've never used either zfs or btrfs, but zfs has a far better reputation than btrfs
<ChinnoDog> Not sure we should compare Ubuntu ZFS implementation to Solaris ZFS. A lot of work has gone into working around the license restrictions.
<waltman> Fine. But I'm also not sure it's fair to compare zfs, which has been proven in production solaris environments for over a decade, with btrfs.
<ChinnoDog> You make a good point. It will be interesting to see which one the community gravitates to now that their level of support is more closely matched.
#ubuntu-us-pa 2019-10-29
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2019-10-30
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2019-10-31
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<ChinnoDog> I need a simple command to benchmark single threaded CPU performance. Anyone have one? I don't have access to any benchmarking utils.
<ChinnoDog> Someone tell me how long this takes: time for i in {1..10}; do sha256sum 2&>/dev/null <<< $(dd if=/dev/random bs=1M count=128); done
<ChinnoDog> It takes about 1s on my 4 year old laptop.
<waltman> It's nearly instantaneous on my mac, and hangs on my newish desktop.
<waltman> I think on linux /dev/random needs entropy
<waltman> Did you run that on ubuntu?
<ChinnoDog> Yes, on Ubuntu. I should have used urandom. /dev/random is slow in virtual machines.
<ChinnoDog> Also I realized I could have written a simpler statement and just adjusted the size of the random data without increasing the memory requirement.
#ubuntu-us-pa 2019-11-01
<waltman> /dev/random also blocks, which makes it a really bad choice for benchmarking.
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
<ChinnoDog> Here is my new crude CPU benchmark: dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1M count=1024 | sha256sum
<ChinnoDog> It has the benefit of being able to use the dd output stats for measurement. I get 82.6MB/s
<waltman> I'm still confused about what it is you think you're measuring. That pipeline uses 3 cpus.
<waltman> dd + sha256sum + one to run the RNG code
<ChinnoDog> One to run the rng code? I assumed dd usage would be insignificant since it is only copying bits in memory.
<ChinnoDog> I guess generating random numbers could be expensive. hmm
<ChinnoDog> I measured it. It is expensive.
<ChinnoDog> I would need to make it run single threaded to get the number I wanted. However, both systems I am comparing have 2+ CPUs so I think it is ok for now.
<waltman> Surely there are existing benchmarks to measure whatever it is you're interested in.
<ChinnoDog> I couldn't find any convenient CPU benchmark tools in the default RHEL repositories which is all I have to work with.
<waltman> Once you write a pipeline you're using multiple CPUs.
<ChinnoDog> There must be a way to constrain all child processes from my command to a single CPU.
<ChinnoDog> I could wrap it in a "sh -c" if I had to.
<waltman> I really doubt it.
<ChinnoDog> That sounds like a challenge.
<waltman> It's kind of the point to take advantage of multiple CPUs for this.
<waltman> If you want to be sure things are constrained to a single CPU, you're far better writing an actual program than trying to rely on shell tricks, especially since you don't seem to understand them well.
<ChinnoDog> I understand them and I knew that there would be some parallelization, I just thought that they would be insignificant relative to the sha2 algorithm
<ChinnoDog> I mean sha256. The RNG does take about 1/4 of the time of the sha256 calculation time though so I would expect if done right the command will take 25% longer when single threaded.
<waltman> You fundamentally can't test just single-threaded CPU performance in a pipeline. Find a program.
<waltman> Pipelines run on multiple CPUs. If you're accessing /dev/urandom, that's causing the kernel to run the random number generator and it's going to affect your results.
<waltman> Also as you've discovered it's easy to guess wrong about what's going to take the time.
<waltman> https://linuxconfig.org/how-to-benchmark-your-linux-system
<ChinnoDog> I made it run on one core. taskset -a -c 0 sh -c "dd if=/dev/urandom bs=1M count=1024 | sha256sum"
<ChinnoDog> Although I'm not letting the scheduler select the core I think the number it produces is accurate since the scheduler will just send the other processes to other cores.
<ChinnoDog> Incidentally, it actually runs /faster/ when it is confined to one core.
<ChinnoDog> I verified by running it with a large count for DD and verifying with top that the CPU time for dd + sha256sum <= 100%
<waltman> What exactly is it you're trying to do?
<waltman> Even if you confine that to a single CPU, you've still got process switching involved.
<ChinnoDog>  That is ok! My intent was to come up with a way to compare CPU performance on different systems. That is all. I don't need an exact measure since I only need to know if there was something wrong with one of the systems.
<ChinnoDog> I used the earlier multi-threaded version to confirm that the performance of the server in question was similar to my laptop so it did not have a CPU issue. It is suffering from the usual cause of slowness. Bad programming.
<ChinnoDog> No matter how fast computers get people still make them run slow by doing Bad Things
<waltman> I mean, you do you, but I still think your methodology is bogus.
<waltman> :)
<ChinnoDog> I don't understand why. I ran a command that was restricted to one CPU and received a measurement of how fast it ran. Is that not what a benchmark is?
<ChinnoDog> It took nothing into account except the raw performance of a couple common CPU intensive algorithms so it isn't great for comparing diverse hardware but that wasn't part of the design criteria.
<waltman> You've got too many variables. You've got several algorithms running different processes so you've also got task switching to consider. Not to mention you're reinventing the wheel.
<waltman> Any, I've given up on trying to convince you. Have fun.
#ubuntu-us-pa 2019-11-02
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
#ubuntu-us-pa 2019-11-03
<teddy-dbear> Morning peoples, critters and everything else
