#ubuntu-meeting 2004-10-11
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Kamion] : Ubuntu Community Council Meeting -- 2004-09-30 1600UTC || Agenda at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
<sivang> hmm , has the meeting concluded already?
<Keybuk> hasn't started yet
<sivang> k, I ought to get myself a UTC aware watch on a panerl or somethig ;-)
<sabdfl> hey everybody
<sivang> hi sabdfl!
<pitti> Hi sabdfl
<sivang> greets , pitti!
<mako> sivang: no, about to start
<sabdfl> morning / afternoon / evening / night all
<sabdfl> just calling elmo...
* mako has been "auditing" the governance webpages
<mako> simple clarifications i can do on my own but i had a couple issues i wanted to bring up
<sabdfl> any additions to the agenda while we get everyone together?
<mako> i think that is part of the second item
<sabdfl> CommunityCouncilAgenda on the wiki
<mako> (link in the topic)
<sabdfl> hey james
<elmo_> hey
<sabdfl> ok, i think we have everyone
<sabdfl> Kamion: ?
<Kamion> here
<sabdfl> ok all set
<mako> excellent! :)
<sabdfl> let's start with team structures, leaders and goals
* sivang is glad he made it back home at exactly the right time.
<sabdfl> has everyone reviewed what's on the site?
<Keybuk> no jdub again?  tsk.
<elmo_> ye
<elmo_> +ah
<mako> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/
<sabdfl> maybe we should introduce ourselves too
<mako> sure
<sabdfl> i'm mark shuttleworth, chief cook at the lunchpad
<daniels> Keybuk: to be fair, it's 2am here
<sivang> isn't there also a security team? 
<sabdfl> sponsor of the project, gatherer of linux lovers from all timezones ;-)
<Keybuk> daniels: he's usually up by now <g>
<sabdfl> mako: over to you
<sivang> sabdfl : that's for sure ;)
<mako> i'm Benjamin Mako Hill, long free software troublemaker (in teh good way) and community dude for ubuntu
<sabdfl> Kamion: 
<mako> "You may know me from such films as, "Ubuntu Traffic"'
<sivang> lol
<Kamion> I'm Colin Watson, installer team leader
<sabdfl> and "The guy who got arrested because he LOOKED guilty of something"
<Kamion> fairly long-time Debian guy
<sabdfl> erm, that's mako i was referring to, not kamion
<Kamion> hey, I've got the suspicious long hair too
<Keybuk> Kamion justs gets stopped and searched at airports, and then has things confiscated
<sabdfl> elmo_: 
<sivang> haha
<elmo_> I'm James Troup, long term source of all evil in Debian.  you may know me from such debian-devel-announce gems as "Serious Problems With ...."
<sivang> guys, is this a mad tv presentation or what ? ;-)
<sabdfl> sivang: you should see the conferences
<sivang> sabdfl : they get better?
<sabdfl> ok, any guests want to introduce themselves?
<sivang> I'd like to ;)
<sabdfl> go ahead
<sivang> I am Sivan Green, a long time computer enthusiast for Isreal, and a former debian addict, now a ubuntu can't live without.
<sivang> *from
<sabdfl> welcome
<sabdfl> ground rules
<daniels> Daniel Stone, Ubuntu distro team member, fd.o Release Manager, random X hacker, tla pusher, have had no disparaging emails written about me on debian-devel-announce
<pitti> Martin Pitt; currently responsible for general distro security and hotplugging issues, and also a Debian guy (mainly PostgreSQL)
<sabdfl> it's an open meeting, everyone's welcome to contribute (we'll see if that stays sustainable as the crowd grows)
<theantix> I'm Ryan Thiessen, longtime Linux user and big fan of the ideas (and implementation) of Ubuntu
<tseng> hiya, I'm Brandon Hale, most famous as a Gentoo developer, or Ubuntu mono packages.
<sabdfl> we aim for consensus within the council and with any team thats responsible for an isse
<sabdfl> issue
<Keybuk> Scott James Remnant, Ubuntu Technical Board member and Python Team leader, Debian dpkg maintainer, cute fez-wearing monkey.
<elmo_> daniels: dude, you forgot: Kernel Hacker
<daniels> elmo_: ('Linux Kernel Hacker')
<sabdfl> daniels: yet. you can aspire to greatness too.
<sivang> I would like to thank Kamion _again_ , for having Jeff invite me to all this fun, before preview relese ;)
<sabdfl> so, on with business
<sabdfl> team structures, leaders, goals
<sabdfl> everyone seen the web site?
<mako> i did a quick one through
<mako> are there any teams that don't have leaders?
<Kamion> yep, similar questions to mako about governing board refs I think
<sabdfl> i think http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/
<mako> IA64 Port Team?
<mako> which is not off the ground
<Kamion> wondering about powerpc team but perhaps I have enough work to do :-)
<Kamion> mako: useful to have there as the first non-company one though
<sabdfl> Kamion: let's see if we can find another volunteer
<daniels> sabdfl: um, so about the community council structure
<pitti> on http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/ there's no security team
<Kamion> pitti: good call
<sabdfl> daniels: can you bring it up at the end once we've worked through everything else?
<mako> an oversight perhaps
<daniels> sabdfl: sure
<sabdfl> ok, will add a security team, who is the leader?
<daniels> sabdfl: oh sorry, missed the 'team' in structures/leaders/goals
<mako> mdz would be the name that jumps to mind
<mako> unless he doesn't want it and/or someone else does
<sabdfl> sure, but i'm concerned mdz may have taken on superhuman tasks already :-)
<elmo_> pitti then
<Kamion> if mdz is too busy, then pitti is the other obvious candidate
<__keybuk> pitty?
<elmo_> he's pretty much a mini-mdz
<elmo_> ;-)
<pitti> I'm not opposed to that
<sivang> pitti seems the reasonable choice ;)
<pitti> elmo_: thanks :-)
<elmo_> pitti: you need to learn to climb walls tho dude, like the Master
<sabdfl> pitti: would you at least be interesting in being on the team?
<pitti> sabdfl: in any case!
<pitti> sabdfl: as I said, I'm willing to take the team lead, unless mdz wants it
<mako> so how about this for a proposal: we let mdz and pitti come back with a recommendation for leader
<Kamion> works for me
<pitti> agreed
<sabdfl> ok, let's see how mdz feels, he may want to work with you a little longer before handing that responsibility over
<sabdfl> ok done, i'll put that on the site now
<pitti> sabdfl: that's why I did not step forward immediately
<sabdfl> any other team suggestions?
<sabdfl> matthew garrett has agreed to be team lead of the laptop team, and thom may to lead the server team
<Kamion> yay mjg59
<sivang> what about a documentation team? or is it premature for this?
<sabdfl> sivang: good call
<mako> sivang: very good idea
<daniels> (desktop?) usability team?
<mako> sivang: you volunteering? :)
<mako> daniels: there is a desktop team
<sabdfl> i'll put that team up, but it may take a while to find the right lead for that one
<sivang> mako : hmm, ofcourse !
<elmo_> http://www.debian.org/intro/organization
<elmo_> ^-- might be worth leeching team ideas from that
<sabdfl> hey matthew, was just using your name in vain
<mako> mjg59: IRT the laptop team
<mjg59> Ah, cool
<sabdfl> any other suggestions for teams?
<mako> mjg59: your team TOTALLY has the best webpage :)
<sabdfl> thanks mako :-)
<mako> i18n/l10n :)
<daniels> mako: url?
<mako> ?
<sabdfl> speaking of which, lu says we should be all set for web site editing by monday
<mako> that was a question/suggestion
<sabdfl> which will parallelise the thing somewhat
<mako> daniels: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/teams/laptop
<sivang> I also though about a user support team, however I am not sure for how it shall function. and ofcourse we should have a QA team also, for later on the project.
<daniels> mako: right, ta
<mako> sivang: i thought of that too
<Kamion> a QA team needs careful thought to avoid turning into Debian's QA team
<sabdfl> Kamion: what do we need to avoid?
<sivang> mako : sorry, i've probably missed your mail on the list.
<Kamion> which is a good idea and has the effect of mentoring a lot of new useful developers, but really doesn't do much sensible QA
<mako> i think user support may not be teh best thing handled by a community team with a lead and such
<Kamion> largely because of the difficulty of doing work across all packages in Debian
<pitti> I think we all should provide user support
<mako> pitti: clearly
<sivang> mako : well yes, it can be everyone of us accidently on the channel ;) not much of team.
<Kamion> pitti: user support tends to keep us honest
<sabdfl> yes, it's one of the great advantages of open source
<pitti> Kamion: it takes too much working hours away, but nevertheless I think it is important
<sabdfl> (though it can lead to early burnout)
<sabdfl> so let's defer a decision on a qa team till we have volunteers and a process proposal
<Kamion> sabdfl: I think sivang's right, it's too early yet to need to worry about a QA team, it can be a general distro team task for now
<sabdfl> agreed. mako, elmo?
<elmo_> yeah
<mako> sounds good
<sabdfl> what about i18n and l10n?
<daniels> how about an external relations team that managed relationships with debian, gnu arch, and other external projects we have a close relationship with?
<sabdfl> should be high priority given our commitments
<mako> i suggested it and i think it makes a lot of sense
<sabdfl> mako: which?
<daniels> sabdfl: mako suggested i18n/l10n
<mako> sabdfl: just agreeing with you
<sabdfl> ah, ok, i'm just slow, and thought i'd had an original idea for a sec. doh
<mako> trying not to reflect on how great my idea is without disclaiming the fact
<sabdfl> i've had a preliminary discussion with daf on that front
<Kamion> I'm concerned that if we start up an i18n/l10n team before some of our company infrastructure is ready to support them they may end up duplicating a lot of work
<Kamion> if that infrastructure is ready to go, I'm all for it
<mako> we already are having i18n bugs that are just getting assigned to me or to others
<Kamion> daniels: sounds potentially connected with PR etc.
<mako> input methods, etc
<sabdfl> Kamion: daf is concerned that we might lose momentum if we *don't* have some sort of structure to channel the good energy the preview created
<mako> and quite honestly, it *needs* to be a team
<daniels> Kamion: you could define it to either be merely relationships with open source projects, or handling all external relations
<mako> because i don't know a thing  about input into the vast majority of languages :)
<Kamion> sabdfl: yes, it's two-way ... if daf's ready, that's great, let's go
<sabdfl> we will probably initially just have an outlet for l10n patches more than infrastructure
<sabdfl> but rosetta is in alpha: rosetta.shuttleworthfoundation.org
<daniels> Kamion: open source on its own is a reasonably large swathe -- debian, python?, gnome, arch, kde?, x, kernel, et al; anything we use/extend/whatever.
<mako> even if it's just patches, input methods, locales, fonts, it's still worth it
<sabdfl> and will be usable in a few weeks, i'm sure
<Kamion> i18n team leader?
<mako> Kamion, sabdfl: but we're talking about more than just translation as well
<mako> although that is the biggest piece probably
<sabdfl> Kamion: daf?
<mako> daf would be great
<mako> if he's interested in taking it on
<Kamion> yup
<sabdfl> he just headed out the door for wales, will catch him on irc later
<sabdfl> can we call it the translation team rather than the l10n team?
<mako> jordi mallach may be interested as well
<Kamion> sabdfl: there are lots of non-translation issues, hence the i18n/l10n label
<Kamion> I don't know whether they make sense as a single team, may or may not
<sabdfl> understood, but it's an overarching responsibility to "help Ubuntu be usable by all communities"
<mako> Kamion:  i think at this point they probably do
<mako> we can split it when it looks like too big a job
<sabdfl> ok, as long as we have a "translation team" where newbies with an interest can begin
<Kamion> this sort of thing is why symlinks were invented :-)
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> now about team processes
<sabdfl> currently the plan is that teams would present proposals to the council / tech board
<daniels> sabdfl: external relations?
<mako> right, and the leader can come up with the "Canonical" name as whatever is most appropriate/recognizeable :)
<sabdfl> daniels: good point
<sabdfl> mako, elmo, Kamion?
<mako> is there a place that could fall under right now?
<mako> maybe just under CC
<sabdfl> Hmm... "Canonical Evangelism" is dangerous territory ;-)
<mako> one thought woudl be to make that directly under the purview of the CC right now
<sabdfl> both mako and jeff have been vocal spokesman, i'm happy for them to continue to play that role
<elmo_> I'm having trouble envisaging what an ER team would do, TBH
<sabdfl> Kamion?
<elmo_> (as opposed to/in addition to/whatever Jeff +Mako).. but I'm not actively opposed, just unclear
<Kamion> we've been assigning that sort of work to people who have contacts in the relevant communities, thus far
<sabdfl> yes, an i think that should continue to be the way we work
<Kamion> on the basis that established personal contacts win
<sabdfl> with mako / jdub coordinating
<Kamion> the point where that stops working is communities where we don't already have established contacts
<mako> daniels: if you feel strongly that there's a need, you should maybe write it up a bit
<Kamion> I think a group who take default responsibility for contacts with those communities would be useful
<mako> i think we can ultimately make that set of processes just directly answer able to the CC maybe
<sabdfl> rather than a group i prefer an individual
<sabdfl> with a group to back them up
<Kamion> seems maybe that an external relations team would be more responsible for setting the Ubuntu line, or something like that
<Kamion> sabdfl: right, agreed
<sabdfl> Kamion: in that case, cc would be the best forum
<daniels> (the main advantage that I can see is ... well yeah, what Colin just said, and also that other projects who are interested in working with us have a single point of contact, but no biggie)
<sabdfl> ok, then let's leave things as they stand for the moment
<sabdfl> i dont want to create teams "just because" until we have real need and people with a passion for that specific role
* mako_ nods
<sabdfl> (erm, though we did just create a doc team :-)
<mako_> we have real need :)
<mako_> we have real need :)
<sabdfl> what about an accessibility team?
<daniels> heh.  essentially, what I vaguely had in mind was no different from what Jeff, James/Colin, James/Robert, and, to a very small degree, myself, already do.
<mako_> sabdfl: i like the idea a lot. but who would lead it?
<sabdfl> mako_: like the idea of an accessibility team?
<mako_> yes
<sabdfl> me too, but we do need a leader in the absence of general skills available to carry it
<sabdfl> maybe henrik omma?
<sivang> I also like this idea very much, i also share the passion to it.
<sabdfl> sivang: do you know henrik omma?
<sivang> sabdfl : hmm, not yet ;)
<mako_> sivang: YOU WILL :)
<sabdfl> oh heck i have to take a guest here briefly, mako can you take over the chair for a while?
<sivang> mako_ : *lol*
<mako_> sabdfl: yes, got it
<sabdfl> before i go, can i suggest we create a wiki page with proposed teams
<sabdfl> then people can hash out ideas there
<mako_> sabdfl: i'm taking notes
<mako_> sabdfl: i'll wikify it
<pitti> mako_: can you announce it in a mail? I've got to go, too
<sabdfl> ok, brb
<mako_> pitti: yes
<mako_> any other ideas for a lead or contact for accessibility?
<mako_> (i'm multiplying)
<mako_> alright. lets move on then
<mako_> also on the agenda was team structures and goals
<mako_> the laptop team seems to be teh only one up with more than a sentance for goals
<Kamion> as soon as I can edit the web site I'll do something for the installer team
<mako> i think it might be nice to have the team leaders write a short itemized list or something
<mako> won't take more than a few minutes for most of them but it would be nice
<mako> in terms of structure
<mako> there doesn't seem to be anything up either defining what it means to be on a team, where this would be noted etc
<Kamion> yes, for new teams that should be part of the team creation process
* mako nods
<mako> or what the relationship between teams and the larger ubuntu commmunity is in terms of decision-making
<mako> i think in the vast majority of cases, teams will be able to go about their business 
<Kamion> I wouldn't go too far down the road of having formal team lists up on the web site; in general the team ought to be de facto the set of people who contribute, with some named people who do lots of work
<mako> Kamion: i'm happy with that
<mako> Kamion: although i think having some sort of visible recognition can be nice
<mako> even if it's like a "active contributors to this team have included..."
<sabdfl> back
<Kamion> right, compare the Debian /intro/organization page that lists the very active people on e.g. boot-floppies or whatever
<mako> but with that concern out there, i think the less formal structures we place on this the better
<sabdfl> agreed, they just get out of date
<Kamion> but I wouldn't want people thinking that they have to go through an application process to start making contributions
<sabdfl> let's keep those pages simple
<mako> Kamion: exactly
<Kamion> uploads, yeah, but that's different
<mako> elmo_: y/n ?
<mako> elmo_: all sound reasonable?
<sabdfl> in terms of goals i structured the laptop team page as an example
<elmo_> mako: yes
<sabdfl> of setting goals per release
<elmo_> tho I think the whole "having just a team as a contact" is less than ideal thing is also true to a degree
<mako> sabdfl: i like it, we can send that out to teh team leaders
<sabdfl> the more concrete we can make them the better
<elmo_> oh, but that's mitigated by leaders, ignore me
<mako> elmo_: also, there is a team contact email and irc channel
<mako> even if it is just ubuntu-devel
<sabdfl> makes sense to me to list the really passionate contributors to a team as well as the leader
<mako> sabdfl: a bit of recognition can go a long way
<sabdfl> should we create #channels and mail-lists for teams, or only wen volume requires it
<sabdfl> ?
<mako> sabdfl: not by default
<sabdfl> elmo_, Kamion?
<Kamion> agreed with mako, higher-volume teams may well want it but it doesn't make sense for e.g. the installer team of one for now
<mako> one thing that has worked well is having people using [foo]  tags on devel if the traffic gets too difficutl to follow
<mako> in debian, custom and desktop have done this
<sabdfl> that's a great idea
<sivang> the more concrete ones should have, I suggest creating the python, security, desktop for example.
<sabdfl> then we can also objectively measure traffic
<sivang> (mailing lists)
<mako> because their work was low traffic, appealed to many people and people wanted to see what they were doing :)
<sabdfl> sivang let's go with mako's [foo]  suggestion, then set a threshold for a new list
<mako> right, and when custom got big, they got their own list :)
<sabdfl> and collapse it back if traffic on that list drops again
<sivang> sabdfl : agreed. :)
<sabdfl> so agreed: no new lists or channels till traffic requires it
<sivang> sabdfl : sounds cool, that way major issues would never slip away from public eyes.
<sabdfl> yes, i'd prefer to garden the list of lists to make sure we only advertise active and useful forums
<mako> it tends to be easier to create a list than to uncreate it :)
<mako> from a social/organizational perspective, not technical
<sabdfl> well, we could send a final message to the list saying "closed for the winter, try over at ubuntu-devel", and then also set an autoresponder on that list address to say the same.
<mako> and the threshold can be largely qualitative
<sivang> mako has a good point, maybe consider redirecting the lists address the a generl list upon traffic changes.
<sabdfl> i'm sure the ubuntu-fabbionelikesmyshoes team will have a low threshold before being asked to form a list :-)
<mako> well, this more a warning about creating lists too quickly now.. we can worry about closing them when we get to there
<sabdfl> ok, so agreed, no new lists
<sabdfl> for teams
<sabdfl> ubuntu-users has been, um explosive :-)
<sabdfl> do we need any tuning on that front?
<mako> i'm not sure what we can do
<mako> the VAST majority of traffic is on topic
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> high signal to noise?
<mako> and there aren't droves of unsubscriptions
<mako> sabdfl: yes, so far
<sivang> we can sort it to sub topics, and instruct users, or even automate a mailing process from the OS, respective to the subject/problem etc...
<mako> i'm only totally caught up until last friday :)
<sabdfl> can we get regular stats of subs versus unsubs as an indicator of forum usefulness?
<mako> sabdfl: yes
<mako> sabdfl: i can put that in traffic
<sabdfl> mako: beter, bring it to this meeting
<mako> sabdfl: with the mailing list stats
<mako> oh, ok team traffic, yes
<mako> sure, that makes sense
<sabdfl> mako: traffic would also be a good place to publish the stats
<sabdfl> i didn't think the traffic would explode like that, it's been very exciting
<mako> yeah, we're already publishing mailing list stats there
<elmo_> debian tries to split it by, e.g. architecture, language and specific topics (laptop, firewall) - ime that doesn't work too well for the latter, but the former does - dunno if we have the arch traffic to justify the first yet tho
<mako> sure
<daniels> elmo_: it doesn't look like it, although the mere presence may encourage more posting and discussion; still, big if
<mako> i think the threshold is not necessary a pure volume issue
<sivang> sabdfl : even from the support person point of view, I'd like to be able to sort u-u's traffic so see which areas I am familiar with and give support to.
<mako> it's also a "relevance to the whole" issue
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> sendak.freenode.net
<Kamion> sorry, fell off; what did I miss?
<mako> Kamion: i'll msg you
<Mithrandir> mako: yeah, the few postings to debian-bsd would just drown on -devel, for instance.
<Mithrandir> and similarly, I'd imagine, for ubuntu
<sabdfl> 18:04:24) elmo_: debian tries to split it by, e.g. architecture, language and specific topics (laptop, firewall) - ime that doesn't work too well for the latter, but the former does - dunno if we have the arch traffic to justify the first yet tho
<sabdfl> (18:04:51) mako: sure
<sabdfl> (18:04:55) daniels: elmo_: it doesn't look like it, although the mere presence may encourage more posting and discussion; still, big if
<sabdfl> (18:05:00) mako: i think the threshold is not necessary a pure volume issue
<sabdfl> (18:05:05) sivang: sabdfl : even from the support person point of view, I'd like to be able to sort u-u's traffic so see which areas I am familiar with and give support to.
<sabdfl> (18:05:07) mako: it's also a "relevance to the whole" issue
<sabdfl> kamion: ^^
<sabdfl> ok, i don't think we want hard thresholds for lists
<sabdfl> but will take into account the wishes of that community
<sabdfl> balanced against the broader user base
<Kamion> can team leaders edit their web pages, or should they send updates to lu/silbs/somebody?
<sabdfl> so if an arch wants its own list and they have a bunch of people communicating with one another, then we create the list
<sabdfl> Kamion: they will be able to edit their pages
<sabdfl> we needed to integrate Zope with Launchpad and thats taken a while, hence the lockdown on web site editing
<sabdfl> in fact most pages on the site will be editable by almost anyone until that bites us in some way
<makoshark> alright, that sounds good
<makoshark> (my screened connection is having trouble)
<sabdfl> so can we move on to the community structures and processes?
<sabdfl> first, this council itself
<makoshark> yeah, i think we've completely killed that first item
<sabdfl> daniels, want to raise your question about the size of the council?
<daniels> sure
<daniels> if the community council is defined as being higher-up, and concerned with issues of far greater long-term weight (e.g. philosophical) than the technical board, should it necessarily be diluted to four members, who are there for two years?
<daniels> not to cast aspersions on the current members or anything :) just that if there's going to be immense power/responsibility, four might be a little too concentrated.
<sabdfl> mako_: did you miss a chunk?
<makoshark> sabdfl, makoshark is mako :)
<makoshark> sabdfl, i'm connected multiple times
<sabdfl> ok
<daniels> (that said, there are massive advantages to having a small team, also; personally, I'm rather ambivalent.)
<makoshark> (REDUNDANCY)
<Kamion> I would like to see more non-Canonical-staff here, but it's going to take a while for that to work
<sabdfl> Kamion: agreed
<makoshark> Kamion, that was my suggestion as well
<Kamion> s/more/any on the council/
<Kamion> I think we should regard four as a seed which will grow
<makoshark> absolutely
<sabdfl> i'd like to keep the council small
<makoshark> daniels: so is your concern "too small and too long?"
<sabdfl> and then go out to the broader "wise heads" community when there's a decision on the table that requires it
<Kamion> sabdfl: half-dozen or so?
<sabdfl> absolute max
<Kamion> I agree we don't want to drown in committee syndrome
<daniels> absolutely
<daniels> (to death-by-committee)
<sabdfl> for a given decision we might well ask the opinion of a much wider group
<makoshark> so we (read: sabdfl) should be careful to pick the bonus members since they'll be around longer
<daniels> makoshark: my concern was basically that if the council is dealing with issues of great importance, then adding one or two more members may help ease some concerns others *may* have
<mako> but 1-2 new non-canonical people soonish would be great
<sabdfl> we should probably also stagger the appointments, so we don't have a whole new council every two years
<sabdfl> same goes for the technical board
<mako> i'm sure if we ask people to volunteer to stand for a shorter term in order to preserve some continuity, it would work
<sivang> there can be a wider review committe , that is presented with the core's members views - then after receiving feeback from the committe things can be decided.
<mako> especially if reappointment is an option
<sabdfl> also, in  many cases there will be a team involved
<sabdfl> and for the decision we want to include the team and the council
<sabdfl> getting consensus gets very hard if you ask for more opinions
<mako> sivang: my concern is that we already may have more committees than we're capable of using adequately at the moment :)
<sivang> mako : i see.
<Kamion> seems to me that once the community is well-established the most frequent task of the council will be new maintainers (that's nominally assigned to the "Governing Board" at the moment, I assume that needs to be fixed)
<sabdfl> i've suggested that we get a confirmation vote from the "maintainers" for new appointments to the council, how do you all feel about that?
<sabdfl> Kamion: yes that's a typo, which page?
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: "maintainers" == ubuntu maintainers?
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: yes
<Kamion> sabdfl: http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/maintainers/document_view
<mako> Kamion: i've caught a few of those my self
<mako> sabdfl: i like that
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: Debian uses self-nomination + election for the tech-ctte, that seems to work fairly well there.
<mako> sabdfl: having the maintainers confirm their "leadership" makes a lot of sense
<Kamion> Mithrandir: CC is closer to the DPL in spirit, but the same comment applies anyway
<daniels> Mithrandir: hopefully our CC is a little more potent than ctte when it needs to be
<sabdfl> mako: agreed
<Mithrandir> daniels: the tech-ctte doesn't _want_ to get involved, our CC can very well act totally differently while still being {,s}elected the same way.
<sabdfl> ok, let's leave it this way for the moment
<mako> this way being appoint + confirm?
<sabdfl> do you think i should ask the current maintainers to confirm mako, kamion and elmo by vote?
<sabdfl> mako: nominate  + confirm, then appoint
<daniels> sabdfl: tbh, I doubt there will be any objections
<Kamion> sabdfl: in a yay/nay kind of way? fine by me
<mako> yeah, sure :)
<Mithrandir> sure, though it's not too important yet.
<Mithrandir> imho
<sabdfl> daniels: agreed, good to observe the process
<mako> daniels: it's in all likelihood a rubber stamp in this case but the process is there for a reason
<mako> daniels: (a good one)
<Kamion> we could leave that until we have some non-Canonical maintainers, perhaps ...
<Kamion> *shrug* don't mind either way
<mako> elmo_, you arlight with at?
<mako> with THAT even?
<elmo_> sure, of course
<daniels> mako: indeed
* sabdfl wishes there was a way to do anonymous vote by wiki
<daniels> devotee? ;)
<mako> sabdfl: that's a moin-moin plugin we don't have yet :)
<sabdfl> how about agreeing to confirm the current council and tech board in one year's time?
<mako> devotee would make one HELL of a moinmoin plugin :)
<mako> sabdfl, special case this year?
<sabdfl> mako yes
<sabdfl> by then we should have a broader maintainer community
<mako> sabdfl: that's fine with me although i'll bet we could an IRC y/n thing and get a majority pretty quickly
<sabdfl> ok, let's do it now, for process, ad again in a year, special case, on the grounds that the balance of maintainer opinion will have shifted away from Canonical by then
<mako> sabdfl: but yes, it seems very sensible and justifiable and ultimately, i think since is all new, it's up to you
<sabdfl> anybody object if I define the "current maintainers" list as the 10 guys who have ben entirely / mostly focused on warty full time?
<mako> absolutely not
<sabdfl> plus Herbert Xu... anyone else?
<sabdfl> ok, i'll hold an irc confirmation process for that
<mako> sounds great
<sabdfl> mako: that's two tasks for me, one to get the team leaders up to speed on process ideas, and another to get confirmation on the cc and tb.
<mako> i wrote them down
<sabdfl> ok, so that's appointment taken care of. two year terms ok? term limits?
<mako> (and would be happy to take either off you if you want)
<daniels> i don't think I really like the idea of term limits
<sabdfl> for the sabdfl? <duck>
<daniels> if Kamion is still around and doing an awesome job in ten years (or sabdfl, or anyone), then they should be there
<lamont> sabdfl: I think that term is 'life'
<lamont> so just 1 term. :-)
<sabdfl> yes, judge
<daniels> if they're not the best person for the job, I hope they're not getting voted back in
<mako> right, someone else has to come in and fund the company and assume that role :)
<lamont> term limits tend to be worse than no-term limits, ime
<Keybuk> lamont: if it isn't, the job title needs renaming
<Keybuk> sabdfoyo
<sabdfl> in this case i'd be very happy to serve (a) well, (b) for life, (c) for a Loooooong Time.
<sivang> ;-))
<sabdfl> personally i think we all need new challenges after about 7 years
<sabdfl> so i won't be nominating anybody for more than three years to cc, 6 to tb, fwiw
<sabdfl> am happy to document that
* mako nods
<sabdfl> also, it creates space for new energy
<mako> i think that's important
<mako> SO MAKE IT A GOOD THREE YEARS :)
<Kamion> I've only barely been using free software for seven years, I can cope with that
<sabdfl> sorry, three terms to cc
<daniels> sabdfl: s/years/terms/?
<daniels> ahr.
<sabdfl> my mistake
<mako> SO MAKE IT A GOOD THREE TERMS :)
<sabdfl> exactly. what was it daniels said? "immense power"?
<sabdfl> mako: stop smiling
<mako> can't :)
<Mithrandir> (:
<sabdfl> ok, now about the relationship between cc and tech board
<sabdfl> it's not really documented, and we didn't discuss it in oxford
<sabdfl> thoughts?
<mako> they seem mostly to be non-overlapping
<Kamion> I'd expect each to have final say over the issues which belong to it, and to defer to the other on everything else
<Kamion> (modulo sabdfl and baby jesus)
<mako> but i can see places where, say, a maintainer was otherwise ok but the technical commity objected
<Kamion> mako: would expect the CC to take feedback from the tech board ...
<mako> or situations where one group might think a problem is technical and another think its a social problem
<mako> Kamion, right
<Mithrandir> cc is processes and social issues, tb is tech issues, it seems?
<sivang> we should have a subset of pepople from both tb and cc to have final decision over stuff like this.
<mako> i kind of see that as EXTREMELY rare
<mako> and if it happens, i'm happy to aggree with kamion and kick it up to the sabdfl 
<Kamion> sivang: I tend to think both bodies should be able to behave like adults and talk it out when things obviously overlap
<sabdfl> hmm... should a maintainer not be appointed by tech board, if we are a tech meritocracy?
<sabdfl> or both?
<mako> sabdfl: ideally, they'd be confirmed by both
<sabdfl> elmo, kamion?
<sivang> Kamion : ofcourse, but maybe having a combined group could be making better decisions on overlapping/crossed issues?
<elmo_> appointed to be a maintainer or what sorry?
<mako> sabdfl: debian confirms both social/philosophical and technical aspects of an applicant and i've always thought that was very sensible
<mako> elmo_, who appoints maintainers
<Kamion> perhaps CC should do the actual appointment but TB confirmation required
<sabdfl> elmo_: confirmation of new maintainers, should it be cc, or tb, or both?
<mako> elmo_, CC or TB or both
<mako> Kamion++
<Kamion> or TB veto allowed, or something similar
<elmo_> both in some form (i.e. what kamion's suggestion is fine), IMO
<lamont> Kamion++
<Kamion> actually, yeah, I'm happiest with TB having veto here; don't want to swamp the TB with having to ack every single obviously-sensible maintainer
<sabdfl> ok, both required to approve, tb first, then cc
<Mithrandir> I think both should approve
<sivang> I support Mithrandir's oppinion.
<mako> consensus works!
<sabdfl> all agreed then
<mako> is there more? i have a few comments on some of the governance text i wanted to clear up
<sabdfl> do we want maintainership to be for life, or to be renewed?
<mako> by life, but we should have a policy for monitoring and expiring inactive or MIA maintainers
<Kamion> I'd prefer until-revoked
<Mithrandir> as long as you are active, life.
<Mithrandir> it should be possible to gracefully retire then come back as well
<mako> debian not put much thought into MIA and inactive developers and has a mess on its hands now
<mako> Mithrandir: yep
<sabdfl> if you "retire" someone it tends to become a bit personal
<sivang> first check the mr's will to continue, review, decide.
<mako> well retiring gracefully is actually in the code of conduct i believe :)
<sabdfl> easier for it just to lapse, then get renewed if the guy comes back
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: yes, but if people just disappear, I think it's sane that's fine.  Make it very clear that one should retire gracefully and make it easy to come back.
<Kamion> we should be fairly centrally proactive about watching out for people who disappear
<Mithrandir> make it harder for people to come back if they go MIA, IMHO
<Kamion> aargh, I used the word proactive, please shoot me
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: yes, we need to be strong about the "disappear gracefully" thing, it does a lot of community damage when someone just disappears
<sivang> Kamion has stressed something very important. not let things get out of sync.
<sabdfl> ok, Kamion, i'm loading up now
<sabdfl> sivang wants me to shoot you as requested
<sivang> :))
<Kamion> it'll be "synergy" and "leverage" next
<Mithrandir> Kamion: proactive isn't that bad.
<Mithrandir> bingo, btw.
<sivang> hey, don't shoot Kamion! He's a good fella!
<mako> it's a good point though
<Kamion> I think you can log somebody as inactive without it becoming personal
<sabdfl> can we say that maintainership lapses after two years unless renewed? we'll have a role for ex-maintainers and a quick process for people to reactivate
<Kamion> you have to take their packages off them anyway
<mako> two years of inactivity?
<sabdfl> no, two years
<Mithrandir> Kamion: will people "own" packages?  They don't today.
<mako> i'm not sure it's necessary to add a process to renew
<Kamion> renewal would have to be three months before that
<Kamion> Mithrandir: or equivalent responsibilities
<mako> i think being active should be the only requirement
<sabdfl> the way this will work in practice is that people who are active will send off an email and we'll renew them immediately, people who are not will just become "inactive"
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: saves the work of hunting for inactive maints
<sabdfl> Mithrandir: yes, it just requires that you show you're still actually interested and reading mail
<sivang> maybe there can be set up a process for wathching pkg traffice, and then inquire a going-to-be inactive maint. about his state?
<Kamion> 0 0 1 1 * renew-ubuntu-maintainership
<mako> if it's just a matter of reading and responding to mail, that seems fine
<sabdfl> mako: further down the line soyuz can handle this
<sabdfl> i'll update the maintainers page
<mako> sabdfl, by monitoring activity, etc?
<mako> it's think it's important that it is clear that it's not another process
<mako> it's just a ping basically
<sabdfl> mako: we want to be able to introduce a process though
<Kamion> as long as the process for marking maintainers as inactive doesn't carry a harsh value judgement, notes gratitude for past contributions, and makes it reasonably easy to reactivate, I'm not too concerned about the exact process/mechanism
<mako> yes, absolutely
<sabdfl> to ensure maintainers are current on updates to package policy etc
<sivang> right. this sounds like a CC's responsability.
<mako> i'm just worried about coming off as process fetishists in the process of making processes :)
<elmo_> sabdfl's been workrave-d
<sivang> mako : :-))
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: the part about being current on policy; I sometimes wish to go through NM in Debian again to freshen up on those skills.
<Kamion> sabdfl: once upon a time interesting Debian packaging policy changes were posted to debian-devel-announce so that everyone read them; that kind of fell by the wayside, but it should happen
<mako> Mithrandir: until you look at the nm process.. ITS HARD
<Mithrandir> mako: so?
<Kamion> mako: brokenly hard, but we've discussed this
<mako> Mithrandir, that's a discussion for later
<elmo_> it's also far too human costly - we'd need an automated process AMAP
<Kamion> "AMAP"?
<mako> i think having a devel-announce list that *everyone* is responsible to read and posting those updates is good
<Mithrandir> it would be nice to have some "freshen up your policy skillz" thing you at least have the option to go through once in a while.
<elmo_> kamion: as much as possible
<Mithrandir> but, elmo has an excellent point, I agree.
<mako> if you don't read that and have that base level of knowledge, you don't have time to be a ubuntu-maintainer
<sivang> mako : sounds like a suitable solution.
<Kamion> at the same time let's not make the modern-day Debian NM mistake of rewarding people who like writing enormous philosophical screeds
<sabdfl> but i agree it should be really very fast
<lamont> Kamion: full agreement here.  we want people who can _work_ not spew.
<mako> and we and we can make that determiniation as people make mistakes.. for hte most part, inactive peopl;e who dont' have time to read 1-2 message a week will in the vast majority of cases be willing to admit to themselves that they don't have time and will do the retire gracefully thing
<mako> especialy if its' easy to reactive their account in the future
<Kamion> acknowledging that we will have to scale in the future, we are still in an environment where we can just talk to people and get an impression of their reasonableness, and we should take advantage of that
<elmo_> eh, that isn't the problem with NM
<mako> i think the automated renewal should be a ping, etc
<elmo_> the problem with NM is that it's full of silly and or irrelevant to the vast majority of people questions
<elmo_> the P&P stuff doesn't particularly reward or encourage verbosity
<sabdfl> P&P?
<mako> elmo_, the entire process REQUIRES it
<mako> sabdfl, philosophy and procedures
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: policy&procedures
<elmo_> mako: requires what?  verbosity?  I beg to differ
<sabdfl> actually, i think a fair amount of reading is appropriate for someone joining this community
<Kamion> requires inhuman patience, certainly
<elmo_> sure
<Kamion> (with AMs who use the huge-pile-of-irrelevant-questions approach)
<sabdfl> some people will fast track due to particular skills requirements
<mako> elmo_: in the case of the process, maybe not. in the case of MOST NMs/AMs, yes
<elmo_> mako: again, based on the reports I'm reading, beg to differ.. *shrug*
<elmo_> it's kinda off topic here anyway
* mako nods
<Mithrandir> people are fast-tracked in other communities as well, I don't see the problem with that.
<sabdfl> we'll try to automate as much of the process as possible
<sabdfl> and it will take us some time to formalise all of that
<sabdfl> till then, it will be based on straight nomination to tb and cc
<sabdfl> then decision based on track record of contributions, or specialised skills
<Kamion> one thing, I think we should be clear up-front that you don't have to be an Ubuntu maintainer to contribute; you can contribute patches just as easily by making branches and requesting merges
<sabdfl> Kamion: absolutely agreed
<Kamion> if we don't have to have every contributor be a maintainer, then the job of watching out for inactive maintainers is a lot easier
<daniels> Kamion: (and just dumping them in the bts, until we get jiggy with arch)
<sabdfl> and hopefully our rcs becomes an asset, not a liability, in that regard
<daniels> 4am's my bed threshold; night folks.
<sabdfl> daniels: night, thanks
<sivang> night daniels
<sabdfl> anything else for this meeting? we are at 120 minutes
<sabdfl> Kamion: ?
<Kamion> nothing from me
<sabdfl> mako:?
<sabdfl> elmo_: ?
<sabdfl> silence is golden
<elmo_> I'm good
<mako> sorry, someone at the door
<sabdfl> ok, mako, will you post this somewhere visible (log and summary) please?
<mako> sabdfl, i have a couple concerns with text on the website
<sabdfl> mako: go for it
<mako> sabdfl, yes
<mako> in the maintainership process it mentions bounties
<sabdfl> yes
<mako> it sounds liek a a requirement
<mako> shouldn't that be more of a "do good work"?
<sabdfl> it's not, in my eyes anyhow
<mako> alright, then i will suggest some text that clarifies that
<sabdfl> it's just one way to demonstrate capability
<mako> right, ok then we're on the same page
<sabdfl> mako: go ahead and edit away
<Mithrandir> it could be mentioned as an example of showing one's work, though
<mako> there were a couple other places, especially talking about canonical where the voice canonical and the voice of ubuntu seemed confused
<mako> "join us" and stuff
<mako> i don't think clarifying that will be controversial, but wanted to just clear it
<mako> that's it :)
<sabdfl> in particular, people who are very good, and have full time jobs, might *need* to be able to put hours into ubuntu and be rewarded for it
<sabdfl> those guys wouldn't have the same time flexibility that the existing community does
<sabdfl> so bounties are a good option for them, i hope
<sabdfl> mako: please point those out to me asap
<sabdfl> anything else?
<sabdfl> guests?
<theantix> sounds like you have a nice open process to me
<sabdfl> theantix: that's cause you can't see me turning the thumb screws on elmo :-)
<mako> sabdfl, no, i think bounties are good thing to have up there. i just it's just one way that people can Do Good Work and that might not be as clear as i can be
<sabdfl> mako: agreed, go ahead and fix it
<sabdfl> theantix: but thank you, we'll keep it this way
<mako> sabdfl: i'll send the summary to -devel and make sure it gets in the next traffic
<sabdfl> mako: could you also create -devel-announce please?
<mako> sabdfl: i can't do it, but i can make sure it is created
<sabdfl> thanks
<sabdfl> alright, thanks everyone for a good meeting
<sabdfl> cheers
<mako> sabdfl, you too
<Kamion> thanks
<sivang> join #ubuntu-devel
<mako_> mdz: i'm writing a summary up
<mako_> mdz: i'll send it to you
<mako_> basically, we had some questions about leadership about the security team
<mdz> ah
<mdz> late night :-)
<elmo_> you snooze, you lose
<elmo_> ;-P
<Kamion> not as if the meeting was scheduled for today :)
<Kamion> actually, it was scheduled for a day that didn't exist, which may not have helped
<Kamion> "Tuesday 27th September 2004"
<thom> can we schedule all meetings for days that don't exist? that would greatly enhance productivity *duck*
* Kamion proposes next tech board meeting for 31st September
<Kamion> actually somebody at school was given a detention for 31st September once, believe she managed to get out of the detention on the technicality ...
<thom> heh
<mako_> Kamion: just insist that he was there and ask them to produce records to prove otherwise
<KragenSitaker> it would be nice to know in advance when meetings will happen
<mdz> I agree :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2004-10-15
<fabbione> daniels: you here?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:mdz] : Stuff
<fabbione> we need to find a solution for that bug.
<fabbione> simply because we do not agree within eachother
<fabbione> i need to know kinda asap what to do
<mdz> fabbione: what do you propose?
<fabbione> 1) if we hit the via driver: we prompt for a warning and ask for the driver to use. We do not probe on via (never!)
<fabbione> s/1)//
<fabbione> the warning won't be translated (too bad but better than nothing)
<mdz> if we ask, what do we present as the default?
<mdz> because that is what everyone will use
<fabbione> all the changes are contained in xserver
<fabbione> mdz: we can default to vesa
<fabbione> mdz: writing a proper warning isn't a problem
<fabbione> mdz: explaning that the via driver is known to be buggy
<mdz> if we default to vesa, we may as well not ask the question
<mdz> if the user truly wants via, they can reconfigure
<fabbione> mdz: i disagree
<fabbione> the vesa driver fails
<mdz> hopefully if they do so they will accept the consequences
<fabbione> as much as the via does
<fabbione> so between the 2 worst solutions i rather prefer the user to make a choise 
<mdz> it does?
<fabbione> mdz: yes. it is the same reason why if we cannot detect the driver we ASK for it and we don't default to vesa anymore
<mdz> knoppix falls back to vesa if it can't detect something better
<mdz> and that has worked very well for me in the past
<fabbione> well it is not good enough for everybody. there was a bug for it
<fabbione> otherwise i would have left vesa as default
<mdz> if we don't have a fallback to use when we can't detect, we are in trouble, because we will never be able to detect 100%
<fabbione> we ask if we cannot detect
<mdz> what was the bug with vesa?
<fabbione> i need to check the bug number
<fabbione> i can't remember it on the fly
<mdz> do you remember what it was about?
<fabbione> i am searching for it.... but basically the vesa driver didn't work at all on the card that was not detected
<fabbione> i can't find the bug.. probably it was on the sounder mailing list
<fabbione> but i am sure about it
<fabbione> xfree86 (4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu5) warty; urgency=low
<fabbione>   * Do not ask for video card driver. If we cannot autodetect, we
<fabbione>     switch automatically to a sane default.
<fabbione> xfree86 (4.3.0.dfsg.1-6ubuntu12) warty; urgency=low
<fabbione>   * Turned the video driver question back on if there is no autodetection.
<fabbione>     DEFAULT=vesa is not enough.
<fabbione> it was somewhere on a mailing list
<fabbione> there is no bug reference
<daniels> fabbione: pong
<daniels> hi, sorry
<daniels> so, as far as I can tell, the status is:
<daniels> a) via driver causes lockups, doesn't work on most machines
<daniels> b) vesa doesn't cause lockups, but flat-out doesn't work on some machines
<daniels> my position is that we shouldn't use the via driver at all, and should use vesa in all cases
<daniels> but since we not only shouldn't use it to probe, but shouldn't use it at all, the fix needs to go in xserver-xfree86, which needs to either use vesa, or ask
<daniels> the via driver is in the worst shape of all our drivers right now, afaict
<mdz> ok
<mdz> if we detect that we should use via, let's treat it the same as failed detection
<mdz> the new user will just press enter, and hopefully that will work
<mdz> the advanced user might select via, but then they will know what to do if it breaks
<fabbione> mdz: ok so i will default to vesa and ask if we detect via
<fabbione> in case of via i will still ban the probe
<mdz> fabbione: yes. that is basically what you suggested, right?
<fabbione> that means asking for resolution
<fabbione> mdz: yes
<fabbione> daniels: do you agree with this solution+
<fabbione> ?
<daniels> fabbione: agreed
<daniels> it seems like the best solution to me
<fabbione> ok
<fabbione> daniels: how safe is to use xresprobe vesa?
<fabbione> i need to go and pick up my mother
<fabbione> bbl
<daniels> fabbione: it's perfectly safe
<daniels> crt -> ddc probe -> ok
<daniels> lcd -> no-op -> ask for res
<daniels> pppconfig SHITS ME
<fabbione> daniels: ok :-)
<daniels> fabbione: see my comment on 1878
<fabbione> daniels: ok
<fabbione> it's interesting to install in pt_BR language to test one bug ;)
<fabbione> ok back to ubuntu-devel
<fabbione> thanks guys
<daniels> heh :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2004-10-17
<Clint> is the wiki lying?
<mdz> about what?
<Clint> about me not being able to read
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-17
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<mhz> hi
<enyc> hello ;p
<mhz> have we started yet?
<ajmitch> no
<ajmitch> meeting is in 45 min
<ajmitch> for edubuntu :)
<mhz> what time is it, UTC?
<ajmitch> Wed Oct 12 11:13:24 UTC 2005
<mhz> ooohhhhh, yes ! We have one more hour now in Chile (since sunday)
<mhz> duh!
<mhz> Hence I was so sleepy
* mhz back to sleep
<JaneW>  **Reminder** Edubuntu Update Meeting in +- 5 minutes
<ajmitch> -5? that would be interesting
* ajmitch should not be awake still :)
<JaneW> ajmitch: time there?
<ajmitch> 1AM
<JaneW> ouch
<jsgotangco> just in time =)
<ajmitch> I was intending to be in bed a couple of hours ago
<jsgotangco> 8pm
<ajmitch> but got caught up with universe uploads :)
<JaneW> ok we all here
<JaneW> I know flint was intending to attemd
<JaneW> s/m/n
<mhz> re
<JaneW> hi mhz
<mhz> hey Jane of Ed
<JaneW> :)
<mhz> :)
<jsgotangco> we have an agenda?
<mhz> yes
<ogra> jsgotangco, we have a standard procedure...
<mhz> ogra receives the shots
<mhz> :)
<JaneW> the group is small enough at this stage to have an open group discussion
<ogra> ans really sorry, i didnt prepare a report today, i have to go over the stuff step by step...
<JaneW> each person arrives with their own (hidden) agenda ;)
<mhz> lol
<JaneW> ogra: understood
* jsgotangco has no hidden agenda whatsoever
<mhz> that's the standard procedure
<mhz> see? it works
<JaneW> jsgotangco: don't have a sense of humour failure me now! (please)
<mhz> I can say some about CD covers and lbel
<ogra> ok, lets go over my issues from last week...
* JaneW is just cheering up
<JaneW> ogra: shoot
<JaneW> ok ogra first then mhz then jsgotangco ?
<ogra> #15244 isnt and wont be solved :/ but its a fact we have to live with
<mhz> ok
<ogra> yup
<JaneW> what is that ogra?
<ogra> you cant log in for a minute after logout...
<jsgotangco> agghhhh
<ogra> its nothing blocking, but very ugly
<JaneW> hmmm, have many ppl had a problem with it?
<JaneW> so switching users causes the problem
<ogra> everyone... its a bug in ssh i guess
<JaneW> should put highvoltage 's wait screen in there
<Kamion> that is not clear at all to me, as the openssh maintainer
<ogra> i havent got enough insight in ssh yet to fix it and kamion insists its not ssh...
<Kamion> I don't really want to discuss it at length here, but I don't think you've provided enough evidence to make it clear one way or the other
<Kamion> no, I do not insist that it isn't ssh
<ogra> but it happens with much forwarded X stuff
<mhz> cold it be an authentification issue?
<JaneW> ogra: ok, but ti can't be fixed before release right?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> nothing can be fixed before release anymore... we're locked since yesterday evening
<JaneW> ok, has it been documented as one of the known issues yet?
<mhz> can we include this issue public in release notes?
<jsgotangco> it should be
<ogra> not yet, i'll put it on the list
<JaneW> mhz: yes it must be listed
<mhz> k
<mhz> ogra: can it be xorg?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: can you make a note of it in the k-i lists and ogra can give details?
<JaneW> please
<ogra> ok, next was the autogeneration of dhcpd.conf... mdz found it a to big change so it wasnt allowed to go in... i worked around the breakage that was caused through this in the install
<ogra> but that leaves us with manual post install work
<ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup
<JaneW> ogra: right, so that needs to be clearly documented
<ogra> it is...
<ogra> PATH variable doesnt contain the /usr/games PATH
<JaneW> is there a message after the install alerting the installer to this? or must they read a doc?
<ogra> was the next point
<Kamion> ogra: didn't I fix that?
* mhz will re-read it and try to make it KISS enough
<JaneW> mhz: ta
<ogra> JaneW, read a doc :/
<Kamion> openssh (1:4.1p1-7ubuntu4) breezy; urgency=low
<Kamion>   * Add /usr/games to the default $PATH for non-privileged users.
<ogra> thanks to Kamion the PATH stuff is fixed
<ogra> Kamion, sorry, i was about to say that...
<Kamion> ok
<JaneW> ogra: we need to highlight it in as many places as necesary then, in doc, on wiki and web page etc etc and mailing list
<JaneW> ok so path issue is closed?
<ogra> i added it to the release announcement that you should read the http://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallNotes
<ogra> yup, the PATH isuue is closed... (even if i still disagree it should have been done in ssh ;) )
<JaneW> perhaps we should highlight the post install notes (with one of those yellow triangles ?)
<ogra> locale and session selection in the login manager never worked, when i asked for removal i was told its to late for such a change and i should put it on lowest priority
<ogra> which i did... but the fact is that the manus still are there now, we must note that
<ogra> *menus
<JaneW> so we have menus which don;t work? :/
<ogra> JaneW, yes, good idea
<ogra> in the ltsp login manager
<mhz> JaneW: i volunteer to review docs you mention to me and make them use most moin moin features as possible
<ogra> -  error message about IP selesction in the installer ...
<JaneW> mhz: cool, yes you are our wiki champion
<ogra> this one was fixed through removal of a default IP, noted in the InstallNotes page
<mhz> lol, but please let's agree on a list (mhz has very bad memory)
<JaneW> mhz: can you look at http://wiki.edubuntu.org/InstallNotes and the linkis and make relevent parts stand out please?
<mhz> perfect
<JaneW> mhz: in fact why not scan through our whole wiki (if you have the time) it is still fairly contained.... I am sure you could beautify it nicely
<JaneW> ogra: so is there still a problem or is it fixed now, and/or is it realted to the dhcp one?
* mhz will do his best as long as there are priorities defined
<jsgotangco> wiki hero woohooo
<mhz> lol, and you are the docbook heroe
<JaneW> mhz: the rest of the wiki can wait, the install note and release announcement are needed for tomorrow
<mhz> ok
<jsgotangco> heya lord of darkness flint
<ogra> JaneW, it was only a confusing text that gets drawn if a default IP is set... the bug isnt fixed, but worked around by not setting a defult ip, which is fine for now
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you are DrDoc
<mhz> just remember we have some time issues and tomorrow for you is my chilean tomorrow
<flint> darkness...I associated this with sleep...yea...
<jsgotangco> i am but a writer nothing more...
<JaneW> ogra: ok good.
<JaneW> ogra: besides switching user issue do any of the others need to be in the k-i list?
<ogra> ok, the other stuff i had planned, like fixing up the css of the firefox page and disabling the sound isnt done... disabling the sound would have caused *all* installs to be without sound, even the workstation variant
<ogra> yes, all of the above, we wanted to provide a fully automatic ltsp setup... without autoigeneration of the ile that doesnt work...
<ogra> *file
<ogra> the menus need to be in... and i'll put up a small howto about sond and why and how to disable it for lts servers
<flint> ollie elkner and I had and install bug monday.  what is the fix?  
<JaneW> ogra: re the firefox page thing is that the same as it was still?
<ogra> oh, and the progress reporting of the chroot buider is still a bit unresponsive, i'll add that too
<ogra> JaneW, yes, but it has a white plain background... i wanted o put up a css for it that looks a bit more edubuntu...
<JaneW> ogra: so will the sound options remain in, just not be functional on the LTSP clients?
<JaneW> ogra: so it's cosmetic?
<JaneW> ogra: what about the language issue?
<ogra> the fun here is, who logs in first gets the sound server on the server machine...
<JaneW> heh, an incentive
<ogra> the system uses the default server language... 
<flint> first-come-first-serve (fcfs) sound will work great in a classroom situation...
<ogra> if you play sounds on the thin client as the first logged in user, the output happens on the server...
<JaneW> ok but the About Edubuntu page? What happens if it's not an English server? They get About Ubuntu in their language?
<jsgotangco> nice
<jsgotangco> you'll have students coming on time then
<ogra> the second (and any further) user cant play sounds at all
<ogra> JaneW, nope
<ogra> JaneW, edubuntu-artwork installs over ubuntu-doc... it gets overwritten in any case...
<JaneW> ogra: I am not clear on what happens then ... will everyone get the English version?
<ogra> everyone will get our version
<ogra> we only have one
<jsgotangco> yes!
<mhz> hhm, can i sugest something?
<jsgotangco> hehe
<ogra> mhz, sure
<mhz> we need more volunteers, more community.
<mhz> therefore
<ajmitch> agreed
<jsgotangco> good morning ajmitch hehe
<ogra> that wil happen
<JaneW> oic ok, yes we do, we can link About Edubuntu to Babelfish
<ogra> eeks
* ajmitch volunteers for back-breaking slave labour ;)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: hi ;)
<JaneW> ajmitch - careful what you ask for ;P
<ajmitch> JaneW: I'm used to it, I'm a MOTU
<JaneW> ogra: are those all our issues?
<mhz> why not have only a couple of transalted versions from english via links
<jsgotangco> i can translate to esperanto anytime =)
<JaneW> mhz: we can certainly put them on the wiki
<ogra> ok, in other notes i just finished a successfull install of tonights iso... just to find out mdz had started a new one this morning at 7am :/
<mhz> and another link on same page requesting for translations ifn "your own" language
<JaneW> erk
<ogra> JaneW, i think so ... they are worse enough ...
<JaneW> when will the ubuntu one stop changing? do we know yet?
<mhz> kind of Knoppix like
<jsgotangco> changing?
<flint> ollie, I have a process question, is the last build today the distro for release?
<jsgotangco> its already stopped
<JaneW> mhz: sure
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: not quite, last-minute fixes are still getting approved
<jsgotangco> eh?
<jsgotangco> so we're still having a build later?
<ogra> flint, i can do 10 builds if the ressources allow it... but mdz locked down the archive yesterday, so i cant upload anything
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: assuming that acpi-support fix gets in, I guess so
<jsgotangco> ugghhh acpi-support is critical
<ajmitch> yes
<flint> mdz was whining that he had three distros to release instead of one
<mhz> JaneW: basically, the idea is that we motivate them to get involved
<ogra> flint, so what you see on http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/daily/current/ i final
<JaneW> ogra: how much more have you got to do before the launch?
<JaneW> mhz: good idea
<ajmitch> mhz: links to launchpad for everything?
<ogra> JaneW, ??
<mhz> ajmitch: for example
<mhz> yes
<JaneW> ogra: trying to guage what still needs to be done
<ogra> only wiki pages and announcement stuff... i have no opportunity to do anything else... the archive is locked since yesterday
<JaneW> ogra: release notes and announcement, installer notes touch ups and coding stuff(?) ?
<JaneW> jsgotangco: any further updates or news or issues from your side?
<ogra> yes, only stuff that involves no uploads :)
<flint> ollie, we really crashed and burned on an install with the monday image.
<ogra> flint, why did nobody report that ? 
<jsgotangco> JaneW, i've already slaved on the releaste notes for both edubuntu/ubuntu i have nothing more to say at the moment except I'll just wait
<ogra> flint, and in which way did you crash ? 
<JaneW> jsgotangco: the release notes are looking good
<JaneW> jsgotangco: I saw fabbione looked at them too
<flint> ollie remember at the beginng of the install
<flint> elkner had you on chat
<jsgotangco> JaneW, the fact that we can't upload anymore means it can't get in the cd but then that's one thing me and mdz talked about that we'll just use a permalink on the distro next time since releasenotes are rolling
<ogra> flint, yes, about 10 minutes after i had fixed it... i told him so... 
<JaneW> jsgotangco: right, makes sense
<JaneW> mhz: want to discuss the CD packaging and designs now?
<flint> ok, i am indeed slow and stoopid...but he never told me this... :^)  Yayyy!!
<Kamion> flint: acpi-support and ia32-libs are going in to fix critical bugs, so there'll be another round of builds, but basically no other changes
<mhz> jsgotangco: we can have "frozen" pages via moin :)
<mhz> JaneW: if the other more urgent issues are ok, then i'm ready
<ogra> flint, and sorry, but a crash is something else than a wrong notice in a installer page ... please dont alert me like this if you discover a wrong text or something... its quite shocking to hear about a crash in this case
<flint> slushy verses frozen...
<ogra> flint, this mesage was there more than a month btw :)
<flint> I am glad you fixed that bug.  we will try a complete install later today
<mhz> JaneW: so? i shot?
<mhz> shoot
<ogra> we'll need far more tesers next release...
<jsgotangco> mhz, teach how to freeze a wiki page after the meeting
<JaneW> ogra: agreed
<mhz> jsgotangco: np
<JaneW> mhz: une momento por favore, let's just wrap the release issues completely
<ogra> most of the testing was done by me, mhz and jelkner... thats all we had...
<flint> and me!!!
<ajmitch> ogra: I think that after an initial release you'll have a far greater pool of testers
<JaneW> yes we need to harness more community participation in the next cycle
<jsgotangco> (and me?)
<ogra> flint, i counted you to the jelkner group :)
<flint> the deal here is you need a test facility bigger than a laptop...
<ogra> oh, yes and jsgotangco for the workstation :)
<JaneW> we had a very limited (albeit dedicated) group this time
<jsgotangco> (although i didn't test that much lately)
<JaneW> THANKS to those that did help
* jsgotangco waits for a check
<flint> I just live in Jeffy's shadow :^(
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> we urgently need more volunteers and more testers, else i dont see a good dapper happen...
<JaneW> jsgotangco: you got a laptop no? ;)
<jsgotangco> hahahaha
<JaneW> ogra: agreed
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: I'm still waiting for one ;)
<mhz> we should plan Edubuntu Tours (that is what we'll do in chile)
<JaneW> ogra: we will have to do some cheerleading at ubz
<ogra> yes :)
<JaneW> ogra: you got a short skirt? ;)
<JaneW> and pom poms?
<ogra> i'll get one if needed :)
<JaneW> heh
<jsgotangco> urkk
* JaneW will bring camera
<ogra> i got two guinea pigs for that
<ajmitch> heh :)
<ogra> but i doubt i can bring them to UBZ :)
<flint> We need more than cheerleaders (currently we have one as president of the US) we nee leadership
* ajmitch will hide far away
* mvo imagines ogra and JaneW cheerleading
<mhz> flint: LOL!
<jsgotangco> i don't mind imagining JaneW...but ogra....
<ogra> flint, i have no problem leading people :) but you need someone you can lead first :)
<flint> the deal that elkner wants to put forward is one edubuntu release sometime in may.
<ogra> nop
<ogra> e
<jsgotangco> april
<JaneW> flint: it will be april
<ogra> we are bound to ubuntu, that wont change
<flint> I know you can tell the pioneer, he is the guy with an arrow in his back...
<mhz> .oO( people observing this meeting can easily say "these guys have already finished release")
<JaneW> flint: we are bound to the ubuntu release cycle
<ogra> and i will heavily object to step away from the schedule...
<jsgotangco> we can't do that
<flint> I believe we need to consider the client, schools
<jsgotangco> that's next to impossible
<ajmitch> flint: releasing a month earlier is better than a month later
<flint> ollie, i understand.
<ogra> ajmitch, lol
<jsgotangco> you'll have to ask canonical to do that as a premium
<Kamion> one of the issues here is that if you try to do an Edubuntu release off the Ubuntu archive in May, the archive will be extremely unstable and basically unusable for releasing
<Kamion> the only thing that could be done is to do some kind of release with dapper+dapper-updates; it couldn't work off the main development tree
<flint> even mdz admits that the three products edubuntu kubuntu and ubuntu are separate distros
<ogra> flint, notethat we'll have more people this cycle (if not we can give up anyway) and that we have more than 3.5 months this time
<Kamion> but it would basically have to be finished bar a few bits of QA in April
<JaneW> flint: ok this discussion is premature here, we need to get THIS release out first
<Kamion> flint: mdz will also tell you that all three use the same archive
<flint> the school year ends in may-june april would not be bad
<ogra> Kamion, i dont want that and i will object to such plans
<Kamion> ogra: nor do I particularly, I'm just saying that's basically the only possible option
<flint> I hope to learn a whole lot about the build process at ubz
<ajmitch> too much work, and you'd have a month of not being able to fix things in dapper for edubuntu
<ogra> yup
<jsgotangco> that would be crazy
<jsgotangco> you'll drive ogra insane
<ajmitch> -er
<JaneW> ok are we done for requirements for tomorrow
<mhz> jsgotangco: already is
<JaneW> does everyone know what they are doing
<mhz> :D
<jsgotangco> we only need the champagne
<ajmitch> JaneW: cheerleading?
<JaneW> ogra and jsgotangco shall we talk more about announcements etc later?
<jsgotangco> sure sure
<highvoltage> JaneW: which wait screen?
<ogra> flint, the problem this time was that everybody (including me) was not aware that we are bound this tight to ubuntus schedule... we're prepared next time based on experience and will handle it better
* ajmitch only has universe stuff to do 
<JaneW> highvoltage: the flying penguin thing... was a joke
<ogra> JaneW, yup
<flint> ollie you do very well, thanks.
<JaneW> ok, we'll hold the champagne to tomorrow...
<mhz> Dr. Oliver
<ajmitch> is there anything that's needed to be done in universe that can be done quickly before the archive closes there?
<jsgotangco> moodle?
<ajmitch> Kamion: I presume universe will close a few hours before release, or close enough to it?
<JaneW> ogra: is our CD going to be worthy of pressing?
<ogra> and with actual six months and even only 2 developers more, we'll get a rocking release based on the one we have now...
<flint> jane you are on drugs
<JaneW> ogra: I rem you were concerned about that
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: as it stands in universe, it works, the moodle work was to remove the wwwconfig-common dependency
<JaneW> flint: can you tell!?
<ogra> JaneW, i think you guys should test it and tell me if its worth the one opportunity we have for pressing...
<flint> JaneW, I think that moodle would be a coup, is is possible?
<ajmitch> flint: possible to do what?
<Kamion> ajmitch: at some point breezy will become Untouchable, yes; I don't know exactly when; remember that the buildds need time to catch up with binary uploads, so sometime tonight might be reasonable
<mhz> ogra: I've been trying to motivate one of the Tecnocimiento guys to help as developer but i still don't know yet
<ogra> ajmitch, it needs security fixage, there is a CAN open
<ajmitch> ah
<JaneW> ogra: ok should we play it safe and get some reviews first?
<ajmitch> ogra: you've told pitti?
<flint> get it into edubuntu.  It is not there now as I recall
<JaneW> ogra: would you be in fovour of holding the pressing option over to 6.04 if we don't have enough bling?
<ogra> JaneW, yes... but i'd also like some feedback from some people in here ...
<ajmitch> flint: *way* too late to get new packages in - it's in breezy universe
<JaneW> ogra: I'd like to press, but only if we are confident of getting results and interest
<ogra> JaneW, i'm sure 6.04 will rock he world, we have a very good base now
<ogra> so if we really have only one pressed CD free, i'd postpone it to dapper...
<flint> elkner (the worst case of version-itis ever) will have and iso to test later today
<mhz> but then what will happen to the Chilean Edubuntu Tour :?
<JaneW> ogra: ok I'll discuss with sabdfl
<highvoltage> JaneW: ok
<ogra> JaneW, feel free to invite me if you need help...
<JaneW> can we carry on with the designs and I am still getting quotes, but can we make a final decision next wed (at meeting) whether to press or not?
<flint> mhz I want to come and dance for Chile!
<mhz> exactly
<ajmitch> ogra: we need moodle 1.5.2 in universe before release?
* ajmitch sees 1.5 in
<ogra> JaneW, i would even go further and say lets prepare but decide it at UBZ
<JaneW> ogra: that late?
<jsgotangco> that's not too late really
<JaneW> ogra: won;t be ready before Dec then
<ogra> JaneW, to be sure we have some feedback...
<ogra> its only 2 weeks
<ajmitch> scary
<JaneW> plus 2 weeks there
<ajmitch> UBZ has crept up fast
<JaneW> back mid nov
<ogra> yup...
<ogra> hmm
* mhz can't afford to get to UBZ
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, like a shadow in the dark..
<ajmitch> heh
<jsgotangco> can't believe that was 6 months ago
<ajmitch> was moodle in hoary universe?
<JaneW> mhz: so do we have designs yet?
<mhz> yes
<ajmitch> hm
<JaneW> mhz: cool! ???
<mhz> yes1
<ajmitch> so it's sitting there with security holes? *bad*
<highvoltage> guys, I need to go, very pressed at the moment, but I ask that whoever has some time join #edubuntu in 3 hours, /me and hno73 will be polishing website/wiki, and input, comment and criticism will be appreciated.
<flint> ajmitch, moodle is a killer ed application no doubt.
<JaneW> highvoltage: awesome thanks, yes at 6 pm?
<mhz> JaneW: Tonight, they'll be up on wiki for feedback
<highvoltage> JaneW: yes, 18:00SAST. 16:00GMT
<JaneW> mhz: super thanks I will take a look
<JaneW> highvoltage: YAY
* ajmitch fetches moodle from debian for merging
<mhz> JaneW: however, we need a couple of things
<JaneW> mhz: can you mail the ml for comment?
<JaneW> mhz: yes?
<flint> ajmitch, keep in mind that your average edubuntu cluster is isolated by definition, and the current security is way better than the old LTSP...
<mhz> ml?
<JaneW> mailing list
<mhz> duh!
<ajmitch> flint: it's still never good to have open security holes
<mhz> sorry
<flint> JaneW, How recursive, very clevar...
<mhz> JaneW: we can't make the children look good (too much pixelized)
<ajmitch> yay for manual 3-way merging
<JaneW> flint: not getting burned again... a la wall paper debacle
<flint> ajmitch, to paraphrase Jesus, security holes, like the poor, will always be with us...
<JaneW> mhz: even reduced in size?
<mhz> JaneW: and we would need to know which doc to use on slip covers
<JaneW> mhz: doc?
<mhz> JaneW: yes, yesterday we tried a diferent design and it seems that smaller will do
<mhz> hhmm, what text has to be on the covers
<jsgotangco> mhz, not that much i'd say we're in a tight budget
<JaneW> mhz: oh I see, I think similar to what is on the ubuntu cover
<mhz> for instance
<JaneW> mhz: can you read it in the pdf?
<mhz> ok, i'll use that then
<JaneW> mhz: obviously amended for Edubuntu as appropriate
<mhz> so no AboutEdubuntu or ReleaseNotes?
<jsgotangco> goodness no!
<mhz> lol
<jsgotangco> they're 2 pages long!
<JaneW> mhz: we only have a back and a front of the cover so there's not much space
<mhz> we can always edit
<flint> JaneW, mdz still hates the wall paper, I just worry about the install sequence
<JaneW> mhz: it wont flap open like the current one does, as we only have the one CD
<ajmitch> ogra: will probably get moodle 1.5.2 in 'real soon now'
<ajmitch> although it'll take an age to upload the orig.tar.gz
<JaneW> flint: a valid selection process was used.
<mhz> jsgotangco: but can we use an edited wiki page?
<ogra> flint, mdz hates the wallpaper ? ours ? 
<jsgotangco> mhz, sure grab a line or two would do
<ogra> flint, he never told me he doesnt likeit
<mhz> ok
<flint> ogra, ollie, mdz hates everything and knows diddly about graphics
<Kamion> I thought it was sabdfl who hated it
<JaneW> orga: in the e-mail he called it 'awful'
<mhz> JaneW: I'll also wiki a page about the "concepts" we based the design on
<jsgotangco> mhz, we can nitpick on the text when we see the cover
<ogra> Kamion, nope, it was one user who complained on the ML
<JaneW> mhz: thanks sounds great
<ogra> Kamion, sabdfl only reacted
<flint> this dog does not have to be pretty, it has to dance.
<jsgotangco> last minute reaction
<jsgotangco> flint, we just don't have time *really*
<mhz> JaneW: so no one start yelling on Why did they use this color or Why he used this image, etc :)
<mhz> they'll have to read first :D
<mhz> and then yell
<JaneW> the point is that was our top rated wall paper, if ppl didn;t like it why are they voting for it!??
<mhz> hehhe, wise
<JaneW> mhz: clever ;)
<jsgotangco> my 4 year old likes it, that's my measure
<mhz> jsgotangco: ys
<JaneW> jsgotangco: ditto
<flint> jsgotangco, I know this, I am kind of glad that mdz does not rave about our graphic choices, I was not excited about the patch policy :^)
<ogra> JaneW, oh, he misunderstood me and i dont have a copy of mdz's original mail, only the quote
<JaneW> ogra: me too
<Kamion> ogra: I'm surprised mdz is paying any attention at all to Edubuntu graphics right now
<mhz> Could we organize dapper release for Chile instead of Canada, Audtralia, Germany, etc?
<flint> elkner has ideas about age relevant overlays that mod the graphics, this seems to be related to his opium use 
<JaneW> anyway I posted to the ml, and we have been told the girl can stay
<mhz> .o0(we could go rafting)
<ogra> Kamion, i'm surprised by many things wrt mdz<->edubuntu :)
<mhz> flint: lol
<jsgotangco> mhz, i think that's too early to talk about atm and not part of the discussion...
<JaneW> I still maintain that anyone who is old enough not to like the wallpaper, would know how to change it...
<jsgotangco> yes
<flint> mhz remember the Hindenberg docking Lakehurst NJ... that's me dancing... :^)
<mhz> JaneW: or cn volunteer for changes
<flint> JaneW, oh behave, I like your wallpaper
<mhz> flint: lol again
<ajmitch> ogra: any other changes you want slipped into moodle before I upload? 
<ogra> nope
<jsgotangco> quick add amarok..*grin*
<flint> ajmitch, do you run the moodle package?
<ajmitch> flint: no :P
<jsgotangco> or pornview even
<JaneW> sides I like to think of Edubuntu Girl as 'Jane of Edubuntu'
<jsgotangco> you don't have pig tails
<mhz> JaneW: Jane of Edward Ubunut :D
<jsgotangco> you hair can't do pig tails
<flint> JaneW, a serious take on joan of arc, note how she ended up.  Do you have a stake in this process? :^)
<JaneW> flint: heh good point
<JaneW> jsgotangco: it's getting long enough to...
<jsgotangco> soo educoool...
<flint> ajmitch, do you know who does run moodle?  The reason I ask is that moodle is very important to our project.
<ajmitch> flint: how would knowing who runs moodle help you?
<mhz> jsgotangco: hahaha
<JaneW> jsgotangco: http://www.flickr.com/photos/13916877@N00/48973686/
<flint> ajmitch, I am interested in getting moodle and schooltool "breathing"
<jsgotangco> well the schooltool people are getting involved...
<ajmitch> ok
<flint> ajmitch, by breathing, if one could exhale data and the other inhale the same data it would be a good thing...
<JaneW> ok did anyone not get a chance to update/speak up?
<flint> ajmitch, moodle is a great tool for running a classroom.  schooltool is a great tool for running a school, see the deal?
<flint> JaneW, indeed off topic, sorry...
<mhz> JaneW: mdz did not
<mhz> :)
* mhz sometimes get mean
<flint> mhz whad to you mean "sometimes"... :^)
<mhz> hehehehe
<jsgotangco> ok do we hvae anything else?
<mhz> JaneW: who is JanC ?
<flint> ogra, cry havoc and let loose the dogs of EDUBUNTU
* mhz always autocompletes with wrong name when refering to Jane of Edward
<JanC> mhz ?  :)
<flint> JaneW, nice pix of you and the young one.  But you are getting stoned in the picture...
<ajmitch> haha
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<flint> seriously Griffin does look cute...
<mhz> JanC: sorry but it's true, I always autocomplete for JaneW but I get JanC instead :D
<flint> next week is our post mortem eh janeW?
<mhz> JaneW: when will cd printing be decided?
<flint> has anyone looked at elkners wish (bitch) list (http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuDapperGoals)?
<jsgotangco> when we have a cover!
<jsgotangco> elkner has a goal?
* jsgotangco checks
<flint> he is really trying to do documentation, I am hindering his every step...
<flint> jsgotangco, you do know elkner, that is for sure.
<mhz> flint: help him develop Moin skills
<ogra> flint, its all covered on the BOF list already
<ogra> (jelkners whishlist)
<mhz> jsgotangco: you can also get mean :D
<flint> jsgotangco, I really consider him the architype of educators he lives in the present (completely :^).
* jsgotangco stares at JaneW hair on quinn's 1st bday
<mhz> ogra: what time is it betta to find jelkner?
<flint> jsgotangco, educators breed a.d.d..
<ogra> i guess your timezones are nearby...
<jsgotangco> ugghh
<flint> mhz after his last class at 14:30 EDT
<flint> mhz, thus I become his insolent proxy.
<mhz> JaneW: does it say Breezy on that t-shirt you are wearing?
<flint> JaneW, mhz is right! we need t-shirts!!!!!
<jsgotangco> no that's Ziggy
<mhz> flint: you're sure you dont have latin DNA in your blood?
<flint> mhz, lol
<flint> mhz, verimente!
<mhz> JaneW: Quin does not need edubuntu at all, he already is educated :D
<flint> JaneW, email me a graphic, how many and what size?  this will freak them  out at ubz...
<mhz> flint: i want a couple for tecnocimiento gang :D
<mhz> pleeeeeeaaaaassseeeeee
<flint> JaneW, could I duplicate that orange from the desktop to a tee?
<flint> JaneW, I mean that in jest (somewhat :^)
<flint> JaneW, I would do this just to piss off mdz...
<flint> mhz, my only requirement is that the tees have nerd pockets.
<mhz> lol, you latin boy
<flint> mhz, orange irish actually, just spent too much time as an altar boy...
<mhz> hehehe, still are an altar boy, just that now you are an altar jelkner proxy
<flint> JaneW, has the whole orange tee shirt thing sent you into a case of FITS?  respond if you can...
<flint> you can call me boy, you can call me joy, just do not call me late to dinner....
<jsgotangco> http://www.flickr.com/photos/jsgotangco/13248757/in/set-367688/ -> 1st Edubuntu BOF during UDU
<ogra> wow, i didnt even think about edubuntu at UDU
<flint> JaneW, Flint Induced Tourette's Syndrome (FITS) is a powerful disease, please fit it and respond...  
<jsgotangco> ogra, i got lost back then...
<flint> excellent picture of elkner's ass...
<jsgotangco> hahaha
<ogra> looks like either her line dropped or she is busy...
<flint> ogra, I am betting on FITS.  what about tee shirts for ubz, say about a dozen?
<ogra> feel free to produce some :) 
* ajmitch needs sleep asap
<jsgotangco> i gotta sleep too
<flint> ogra, does edubuntu have a mascot.  I want a puppy!!!
* ogra thinks he'll get more t-shirts at UBZ than he ever buyed in a year
<jsgotangco> (early for tommorow)
<ajmitch> jsgotangco: it's early there!
<ajmitch> ogra: yeah, is someone bringing MOTU shirts?
<jsgotangco> ajmitch, right, i need a smoke then
<flint> but edubuntu tees will have a nerd pocket.
<ajmitch> flint: but MOTU is the supreme honour
<jsgotangco> higher than baby jesus?
<ogra> ajmitch, i dont know, dholbah was talking about Kamin fanboy, mdz groupie and MOTU shirts... ltsp already asked for my size, now a edubuntu shirt and i have enough for one year ;)
<ajmitch> haha
<flint> ajmitch, I agree 
<jsgotangco> then you dont have to bring shirts in montreal
<ogra> i think the first tw he actually planned to do by hand... 
<ogra> *two
<flint> I need an mdz groupie shirt in XXXXL!
<ogra> heh
<ajmitch> we'd need to be in the group photo by Kamion & mdz wearing those shirts :)
<flint> each wearing the others... that's poetry.
<jsgotangco> ok i guess that's it wife calls for husband duties....
<flint> Good meeting.  I also gotta get going.  Duty calls us all.
<flint> ogra, anything else?
<ogra> nope, lets have a release, even if its warty as hell :)
<flint> doggy not warty...
<ogra> heh
<ogra> ok, doggy
<flint> later...bye
<ogra> bye
<jsgotangco> we'll get creamed for sure on some issues, but people will still use it
<Seveas> when's the next edubuntu meeting?
<ogra> good question... if in doubt, same time, same place next week
<jsgotangco> and #edubuntu will have that as a topic for sure
<ogra> yup
<mhz> Seveas: and remember the log of this meeting is held somewhere ogra can tell you :)
<ogra> mhz, Seveas knows for sure where they are... ;)
<ogra> Seveas, just set it to next wed. 12:00 UTC
<ogra> (19th)
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ogra] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 19 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Oct 22:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil
<Seveas> ogra bad :)
<ogra> why ? 
<Seveas> !meeting set Edubuntu 19 Oct 12:00
<Seveas> meh
<ogra> !meeting set Edubuntu 18 Oct 12:00
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Oct 22:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil
<ogra> !meeting set Edubuntu 19 Oct 12:00
<ajmitch> Seveas: people are free to set the topic as they see fit instead of playing with your toys :P
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 19 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Oct 22:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil
<Seveas> ajmitch, true, but I like to keep his database consistent :)
<Kamion> it should update its database when people set the topic manually
<Seveas> true
<ogra> and it should update the wiki calendar and the ical file there ;)
<Seveas> well, I was planning to make it use the ical file to update this place :)
<mhz> ogra: so i assume meeting is off?
<ogra> mhz, yup
* mhz gets back to #edubuntu and wiking after some care to daughter
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-18
* netjoined: irc.freenode.net -> brown.freenode.net
<robitaille> !meeting set TechBoard 18 Oct 20:00
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 18 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechBoard | 19 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 25 Oct 22:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil
<cyphase> I'm back online!! Woohooo!!!!!
<cyphase> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-21
<cyphase> hey everyone
<cyphase> finally got internet at home (i just moved) :)
<robitaille> !meeting set DocTeam 21 Oct 14:00
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Calendar | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 18 Oct 20:00 UTC: TechBoard | 19 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 20:00 UTC: MOTU | 21 Oct 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 25 Oct 22:00 UTC: CommunityCouncil
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-22
<SavvyPlayer> just checking, next release == dapper?
<Lathiat> ajmitch: look! i'm early! ;)
<ajmitch> *shock*
<Lathiat> ;p
<mitsuhiko> test
<mitsuhiko> arr
#ubuntu-meeting 2005-10-23
<cyphase> hey everyone
<lordk4rf> waiting for the meeting too?
<\sh> evening world
<Loiosh> Good evening!
<ajmitch> hi
<pitti> Hi
<ajmitch> hello pitti 
<bddebian> Heya pitti
<sabdfl> evening all
<bddebian> Hello sabdfl
<mvo> hi
<mdz> good morning all
<sabdfl> hey mdz
<mdz> do we have a Keybuk today?
<sabdfl> keybuk?
<Loiosh> Goood mornin'
<mdz> I'll SMS
<pitti> Hi mdz
<sabdfl> after developer candidates, we have mjg59's Q&A, and Any Other Business
<sabdfl> ok, should we get going?
<mdz> we could, or we could give Keybuk a few minutes to turn up
<sabdfl> on the https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+members page i see only tomrules345 and Farias who are new
<ajmitch> benjamin montgomery has been unable to attend TB meetings due to time
<ogra> Keybuk was around earlier
<Nettobr> Good Evening 2 all, gotta go
* pitti discovers that we have two mdzs according to https://launchpad.net/people/techboard
<mdz> the launchpad team infrastructure seems to be working well, but I think we need more process around it
<jbailey> pitti: launchpad has some issue around renames.  Known bug.
<pitti> I know, it's just funny
<mdz> quite a few folks seem to drop by the web page and apply for membership to one of the dev teams without knowing that there is more they need to do
<mdz> sabdfl: is there a way we can add some instructions at that point?
<bddebian> mdz: Agreed
<ogra> sabdfl, but there are some who couldnt attend the last meetings...
<mjg59> There's two of me in Launchpad, too
<sabdfl> mdz: anything is possible. you mean a "message on subscription page" attribute? definitely feasible
<sabdfl> as a general rule its best to add all of your email addresses to LP, so it does not create new you's when it sees you under a different name
<jbailey> Maybe have something like the Debian NM concept where you get someone to sponsor your name to the team?
* ogra is SO PROUD http://www.stroven.org/blog/?postid=63
<bddebian> Actually I still am not a member of Ubuntu Members apparently??
<jbailey> advocate.
<ogra> :-D
<sabdfl> well, we can make them invitation-only teams
<bddebian> jbailey: :-)
<mdz> sabdfl: oh, didn't know that
<sabdfl> but then the admins have to do the work
<mdz> sabdfl: that would be better
<mdz> sabdfl: can it be such that any member of the team can invite someone?
<ajmitch> jbailey: next you'll want AMs as well :)
<sabdfl> mdz: not currently
<mdz> since all of those folks have been through the process, they can provide guidance
<bddebian> ajmitch: Heh
<sabdfl> at the moment "invite" == "approve", and is admins only
<mdz> ah
<jbailey> ajmitch: I've dragged enough people kicking and screaming through that process to not want to replicate it. =)
<ivoks> ogra: :)
<mdz> so far, it seems like most of the people who have applied through launchpad never actually turn up
<sabdfl> for the moment, a message-to-potential-subscribers will do
* sistpoty is here too
<\sh> sistpoty: nice :)
<sistpoty> hi folks ;)
<bddebian> Heya sistpoty
<sabdfl> i've often thought we should have a "new team members" team, that can have more frequent meetings, and approve people
<ogra> yay sistpoty !!!
<ajmitch> so far it seems that most don't understand the process or read the wiki pages that link to it
<mdz> ok, I guess we need to move along without Keybuk
<sabdfl> but then, having every new dev come through the TB is a good thing too
<sabdfl> hey seb
<seb128> hi sabdfl
<seb128> hi everybody
<sabdfl> ok, are there any developer candidates here now?
<ogra> sabdfl, sistpoty 
* sistpoty is StefanPotyra
<sabdfl> ah, welcome sistpoty
<sabdfl> three-line summary?
<ogra> who really deserves it to finally get approved
<Mortas> if you need more candidates I can put myself on the list, but don't think I've done enough to be eligable for the process
<sabdfl> Mortas: thanks :-)
<ogra> Mortas, you need to be a member first
<ajmitch> sabdfl: we've also got some absent who have been unable to be here again
<sabdfl> ajmitch: timezone issues?
<Mortas> see that's what I mean :)
<ajmitch> sabdfl: seems to be
<sabdfl> ok, maybe we can have a special meeting of the TB for dev appointment at different times
<sistpoty> ok... what i've done: fixed many things... what i plan: 1) revu2 2) work on motu-games and if time left, 3) eventually found a motu-haskell group... what should the third line be about again?
<sabdfl> will help to have more people on the TB too
<mdz> sabdfl: not when you only nominate people on UK time ;-)
<\sh> sabdfl: sistpoty is one of the guys who actually brought revu1 to life
<ajmitch> and one of the people that fought through the ghc mess :)
<sabdfl> sistpoty: tell me about motu-games?
<sistpoty> sabdfl: siretart invited me to join... and I found quite a few promising games on the page of a library (just looking which one it was)
<sistpoty> sabdfl: so maybe i could get some of these to dapper which are not packaged yet
<mdz> sistpoty: is there a list?
<sabdfl> can anybody comment on sistpoty's packaging style, and quality of work?
<sistpoty> mdz: there is a page which lists many... mom, still looking ;)
<mdz> sistpoty: who has sponsored your uploads so far?
<dholbach> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUNEWGames
<ogra> sabdfl, hes with the team since 2/3 of the hoary timeframe...
<bddebian> mdz: I've done a few for sistpoty
<mdz> ogra: style and quality, not length of time ;-)
<sistpoty> mdz: different people... dholbach did some, some slomo, some from \sh, some from ajmitch
<ogra> sabdfl, he did quite complicated packages already, didnt fear to touch haskell which nobody wanted...
<ivoks> sistpoty isn't motu yet?!
<\sh> ivoks: no
<mdz> dholbach,slomo,\sh,ajmitch: specific feedback about sistpoty's work?
<ogra> he's a great teamworker i'd say
<dholbach> i sponsored a couple of his packages, and i was quite pleased with 1) the packaging, 2) the fix itself, 3) the way he worked on it
<sabdfl> sistpoty: also, tell me about REVU 2?
<sistpoty> sabdfl: actually revu1 was written fast and not very cleanly, making it hard to add new features
<\sh> mdz: as I said in the last meeting, he's a team player, he's doing great work on really serious troubling packages like the ghc stuff, he's in the team with siretart and they're reinventing a better REVU tool 
<sistpoty> sabdfl: that's why siretart and /me decided to start it all over... but siretart has big plans for revu2 which he'd like to discuss at UBZ
<dholbach> he didn't just stick to the easy stuff, but he was eager to find things out and did this "in public", so other could participate and learn from it
<sistpoty> sabdfl: s.th. like launchpad integration if possible ;)
<ogra> most noticeable feature of revu2 will be testbuilding of packages if i understood right
<\sh> ogra: yes
<\sh> ogra: to have even a full QA structure for new packages from MOTU helpers
<sistpoty> btw.: just found the page with games: http://www.clanlib.org/games.html (seems like many are not packaged yet)
<sabdfl> sistpoty: could you spec that for us for UBZ? are you coming to UBZ?
<\sh> sabdfl: siretart's coming 
<sabdfl> cool
<sistpoty> sabdfl: unfortunately i don't have time to come :(... as said, siretart has the big plans... and imo he'll be doing the specs as well ;)
<sabdfl> geez, those games look great
<sabdfl> ok
<sabdfl> work with him on the wiki... be just like being there without the beer!
<sabdfl> (or, on the one night, the tights)
<sistpoty> sabdfl: sure, will do ;)
<sabdfl> sistpoty: which timezone are you?
<sistpoty> utc+2
<ogra> germany
<\sh> motu-de ,-)
<sabdfl> ok... be nice for you to review the relevant specs in the morning before everyone else gets there and add your comments
<sabdfl> +1 from me for sistpoty on the basis of a sustained contribution and good comments from dholbach and others on code and teamwork
<ogra> +10 from me if i could
<mdz> +1 for sistpoty as MOTU
<ogra> for excellent work and teamwork
<bddebian> +10 for me if I could :-)
<ogra> (and for a lot of patience with becoming a MOTU btw)
<mdz> sistpoty: welcome!
<ogra> YAY
<dholbach> excellent!!! :)
<ivoks> sistpoty: :>
<pitti> welcome sistpoty 
* ogra hugs sistpoty 
<sistpoty> yeehaa... thanks :)
<\sh> CONGRATS sistpoty :) 
<ogra> finaly
<mdz> are there any other candidates present?
<ogra> +l
<bddebian> Yeah! Welcome sistpoty
<dholbach> we need the motu-de meeting soon :)
<dholbach> motu-de party rather ;)
<sistpoty> hehe
<Loiosh> Beer =)
<\sh> oh daniel invited us to come to berlin and have a party there ;)
<bddebian> Bier?
<sabdfl> i've just fixed something in LP
<ajmitch> sistpoty: well done :)
<sabdfl> memberships are supposed to be 2 years initially, then 1 year upon renewal
<sabdfl> all the existing ones are indefinite
<ajmitch> sabdfl: and maintainer status sits that as well?
<sabdfl> well need to fix that, but there's no fast interface to do it for 25 people
<sabdfl> ajmitch: membership. yes
<ajmitch> I noticed I'm the only one with an expiry date in the core-dev team :)
<jbailey> ajmitch: The rest of us are immortal.
<bddebian> ajmitch: They are trying to tell you something ;-P
<ajmitch> due to when I was added
<ajmitch> bddebian: I'm not past it yet :)
<sabdfl> ajmitch: that's probably because you joined after i fixed that
<bddebian> ajmitch: Don't feel bad apparently I'm still not even a member ;-P
<mdz> sabdfl: if this can be fixed in the UI, send me the info and I'll take care ofit
<ajmitch> bddebian: so ask someone (when it's the right time)
<sabdfl> mdz: it's done for future guys, just need to set expiration dates for the existing folks
<mdz> sabdfl: right, that's what I meant
<bddebian> ajmitch: Who is the someone?
<HiddenWolf> Guys, what is needed for membership, generally?
<ogra> HiddenWolf, a valuable contribution ...
<ajmitch> bddebian: a CC member
* ajmitch has to go
<HiddenWolf> ogra, it's the valuable that I'd like to see defined. :)
<ogra> HiddenWolf, and a CC meeting that notices it :)
<bddebian> Later ajmitch
<sabdfl> mdz: sure it can, just click on "edit" next to their name on the +members page
* sabdfl shivers at bad ui
<ogra> HiddenWolf, CC considers how valuable it is... 
<sabdfl> ok, was sistpoty our only victim for the evening?
<mdz> ok, last call for developer candidates
<\sh> bmonty is not with us today 
<bddebian> Aye, we need a special time for him I think :-(
<ogra> HiddenWolf, but some docs a bit of artwork bugfixing or helping packaging is generally ok already ...
<mdz> bddebian: if he can't make the normal meeting time, it's his responsibility to contact us.  we can't know his schedule
<sabdfl> alright. mjg59 around?
<mjg59> Yup
<bddebian> mdz: Well the "path" isn't exactly clear.  Such as I don't know who to bug about not being a "member" on Launchpad.
<\sh> sabdfl: btw...is there any possibilty to see the actual voting stats?
<mdz> bddebian: regarding the tech board meeting time, contact the tech board :-)
<sabdfl> \sh: if you're the dba, probably
<mdz> bddebian: for team matters, contact a team administrator
<sabdfl> otherwise, nope
<sabdfl> it's a secret ballot
<sabdfl> i don't know that code but i assume the results are visible to everybody after the poll is done
<\sh> sabdfl: so the result is coming in less then 2 weeks
<sabdfl> yes
<sabdfl> 10 days, currently
<sabdfl> barring a major issue with LP
<\sh> yes
<sabdfl> i must apologise for the pages, they are hideous, and i believe there are crashes too, though i managed to vote
* mdz cringes at the text formatting
* bddebian was able to vote
<sabdfl> guys, does anyone have questions for mjg59
* ogra waits for the canvassing
* sabdfl waits for the curve balls
* bddebian waits for a beer
<mjg59> Oh, come on. /Someone/ must have something to ask me :)
* Loiosh joins bd.
<mdz> mjg59: what do you see as the most important responsibility of the technical board?
<sabdfl>  /invite godot
<ogra> lol
<pitti> mjg59: do you closely follow MOTU development to be able to judge new candidates?
<sabdfl> mjg59: can you think of areas of the technical infrastructure of ubuntu that need serious cleaning up?
<mjg59> mdz: Ensuring that we don't accidently do something *really stupid*
<sabdfl> i.e. "staring down the sabdfl"
<zenrox> mjg59 follow up question how your you inforce the  most important responsibility?
<zenrox> your=would
<ogra> mjg59, how do you plan to relate your work for dccalliance to the work on ubuntu ?
<mjg59> pitti: I don't have enough time to follow every MOTU in detail. However, it's easy enough to check how candidates are doing
<mdz> mjg59: for example? (something stupid, and how the board would prevent it)
<pitti> mjg59: I for my part find it nontrivial
<mjg59> (I'm giving short answers here because of the number of sudden questions - please ask if you'd like any elucidation)
<zenrox> elucidation??
<mjg59> ogra: You're joking, right?
<ogra> sure
<mjg59> Haha
<sabdfl> mjg59: can you think of ways we COULD work constructively with the DCCA?
<mjg59> mdz: We don't have the same sort of personal responsibility for packages as Debian has. It's possible for someone to alter a set of packages in a way that they believe solves a real problem - if someone else disagrees, there's not necessarily a good claim of authority in one case over the other
<mjg59> In general, one of these opinions will be more technically correct than the other, and that's the sort of decision the tech board ought to be making
<sabdfl> what would you see as the most effective way to improve the usefulness of ubuntu to people who run servers, not desktops?
<mdz> sabdfl: -EWOULDBLOCK, you already have a question in the queue ;-)
<sabdfl> mjg59: the idea of arbitrating between two good ideas is very interesting, and i think a good example.
<bddebian> heh
<sabdfl> mdz: ESORRYBACKINGOFFNOW
<mjg59> sabdfl: Lacking technical infrastructure - if I said "The ability to release a distribution right now", would I be punched? :)
<sabdfl> mjg59: that's really up to them to organise :-)
<mjg59> But other than that, not really - bugzilla makes it a bit too easy to lose track of what still needs doing, but I'm hoping Malone should make that easier
<mjg59> How could we work constructively with the DCCA? I think trying to work with them (and, by proxy, Debian) on LSB compliance would be a good plan as far as possible
<mdz> mjg59: what qualities do you feel are most important when considering potential Ubuntu developers?
<mjg59> Improving Ubuntu for server users - GUI tools for managing large numbers of machines
<ogra> ++
<\sh> "How to package empty packages"?
<ogra> \sh, the Mez syndrome ? 
<mjg59> mdz: Ability to understand how their contributions impact upon the entire distribution
<bddebian> Uh oh :-)
<mjg59> That's important both from the point of view of functioning as a team, but also in terms of producing a distribution that's well integrated
<mdz> mjg59: what methods would you use to measure that understanding on the part of a particular individual?
<mjg59> mdz: Look for packages that interoperate with other packages in the distribution
<mjg59> Ideally where that's been done by working with people looking after those other packages
<mjg59> That's not always possible, but I think it ought to be encouraged
<mdz> further questions for mjg59?
<bddebian> Are they open to anyone or just TB?
<mdz> remember, folks, it's the community at large who will be voting here, not just the tech board
<mjg59> Questions from anyone
<ogra> bddebian, anyone
<jbailey> mjg59: What's in it for you? =)
<jbailey> More fully: It seems like alot of work and responsibility.
<jbailey> You already do alot.  Why do you want to do more?
<bddebian> mjg59: I'm curious if you have any thoughts about a closer relationship between MOTU's and main or do you even see an issue there?
<mjg59> jbailey: Somebody needs to do it. 
<mjg59> And I think for someone to do it well, they need to be heavily involved in the project
<mjg59> If I didn't do it, some other poor bastard would end up with the job :)
<jbailey> =)
<bddebian> Heh
<pitti> mjg59: in the beginning of the TB meetings, we had a lot of technical discussions, nowadays the main action is about approving new maintainers; do you feel that you have enough experience with the MOTU community for the latter?
<Loiosh> Just because I'm missing this... what is the DCCA?
<\sh> mjg59: was it not more the case, that the call came from sabdfl, and there is nothing in the ubuntu which can overrule sabdfls call? ,-)
<\sh> +world even ;) 
<mjg59> More importantly, I think it's important that the tech board have input from the community, not just from Canonical staff
<jbailey> mjg59++
<ogra> \sh, the suggestion came from sabdfl but the TB expressed the need fr an additional member before
<ogra> *suggestion for mjg59 
<sabdfl> mjg59: +1 on that
<\sh> ogra: how many smilies should i draw? :)
<ogra> ;)
<mjg59> pitti: I don't think approving MOTUs should be seen as the most important role of the TB. It's one role amongst many. I'll happily admit that there are people with a better understanding of the state of play of MOTU, and I'm also happy to admit that I'd rely on them for guidance. But any TB member has to be able to deal with the other responsibilities as well.
<mjg59> Finding someone who could satisfy all criteria perfectly is fairly unrealistic :)
<pitti> mjg59: right, that was my impression, too. thanks
<bddebian> How many/what members are close to the MOTUs?
<pitti> mjg59: I did not mean that as an offence, by no way
<mjg59> \sh: He hasn't got my signature on a contract yet, so I get to ignore him as much as I want to :)
<pitti> mjg59: I'd love to see your weight in technical decisions
<ajmitch> bddebian: TB members?
<\sh> mjg59: hehe :)
<mjg59> pitti: Oh, yes - I hadn't interpreted it as one
<mjg59> Loiosh: www.dccalliance.org
<mjg59> (not to be confused with www.dccalliance.biz)
<pitti> mjg59: I'm not sure why there are so few technical discussions on TB nowadays - maybe they have moved to the specification BoFs :-)
<bddebian> ajmitch: How many of the Technical Board itself I should say
<mjg59> bddebian: I think it's fairly inevitable that main and MOTU will remain separate, simply because of the different standards demanded from the two groups
<pitti> mjg59++
<bddebian> mjg59: I got that.  My question is more around taking resources from main and vice versa.  Elmo for example gets inundated with sync requests from us
<\sh> mjg59: two serious questions: 1. When the LaptopTesting started, and we had the problems with the sk98lin driver, you explained (and even fabbione) that we're not including the driver of syskonnect. Why did you change your opinion, patched it and included it in the final "product"?
<mjg59> Personally, I think it would be great to see more community members with main upload privileges. But for that to be possible, we need to be sure that they're able to package software we can commit to supporting for a long time
<pitti> mjg59: not only that, we should also be reasonably sure that they are available for a longer time
<pitti> Hi crimsun 
<bddebian> Heya crimsun
<\sh> 2. Do you, personally, see a success story of the dcca, regarding the unsuccessfull tries of SuSE and others to establish such a thing like an alliance? (UnitedLinux it was I think)
<crimsun> (hi, don't want to interrupt :-)
<mjg59> \sh: The original decision was made because a supportable driver was appearing in the near future. In the end it turned out that the decent driver wasn't adequate for us.
<ajmitch> mjg59: for dapper, what is your opinion of what we should focus on (technically) for it to be 'enterprise-ready'?
<\sh> mjg59: but what was important for you? The need of the User or "the decent driver wasn't adequate for us"? 
<mjg59> The sk98lin driver is basically impossible to support for any length of time. It's effectively the Windows driver with a think Linux layer around it. Supporting it would have been a nightmare. In the end, we took the decision to ship it only for the small set of devices that wouldn't otherwise be supported.
<mjg59> \sh: Shipping a driver that we can't support is not necessarily preferable than shipping no driver, as far as the user is concerned
<mjg59> Users want us to be able to keep to our commitments
<mjg59> The sky2 driver simply didn't work for most people
<mjg59> So in the end that wasn't an option
<mjg59> ajmitch: Stability, stability, stability
<pitti> ajmitch: which process changes would you prefer to achieve that?
<pitti> erm
<pitti> s/ajmitch/mjg59/
<ajmitch> mjg59: with that stability in mind, what do you think about when UVF & feature freeze should be? earlier?
<mjg59> For the long-term supported releases, certainly
<mjg59> pitti: Reducing code churn earlier in the process
<mjg59> It'd also be good to see more management utilities
<mvo> mjg59: what kind of utils do you have in mind here?
<mjg59> The infrastructure needed for Ubuntu to be enterprise ready certainly exists - that's easy enough to see from it being used in the enterprise...
<mjg59> mvo: Better tools for managing user profiles and lockdown
<mjg59> But it ought to be easy for me to push a package out to 500 machines
* mvo nods
<ogra> mjg59++
<mjg59> If I'm managing a set of servers, I want to be able to check that they're all up to date with security patches in under 30 seconds
<mjg59> Linux tends to be lacking in that sort of area - making life easy for the admin of large networks
<mjg59> So the admin ends up writing a bunch of scripts to do it, and we get code duplication all over the planet
<Kamion> mjg59: I'm guessing that running the LaptopMission project has given you a fair amount of experience with working with maintainers and packages throughout a pretty good cross-section of Ubuntu. Is there anything you'd change as a result of that experience?
<Kamion> (either technical matters of laptop support, or process)
<mjg59> Sometimes small changes to large packages are needed in order to support something
<mjg59> Writing that change is easy enough, but it's not practical to integrate it and upload it, especially when that may disrupt what the maintainer is working on
<mjg59> So you submit a patch to bugzilla or whatever, and it's queued for inclusion
<mjg59> But from then on, there's no good way to see what's happening
<mjg59> And, inevitably, some of those patches get overlooked, and then you have to resort to chasing people up about it
<Mithrandir> from the maintainer's side, it's also way too easy to drop/not include patches unintentionally.
<mjg59> And that sucks
<Kamion> right, I can agree with that on both sides
<mjg59> Some way of managing those patches would be excellent
<mjg59> So, if I could change one thing, it would be to have that. And a pony.
<ogra> *g
<sabdfl> mjg59: are you coming to UBZ?
<bddebian> There is a patch tracker on alioth iirc, maybe something like that for LP?
<Mithrandir> what's this sudden obsession with geeks wanting a pony?
<mjg59> sabdfl: Afraid not
* bddebian doesn't want a pony
<Mortas> Mithrandir: girls love them
<ogra> Mithrandir, dont you want one ? 
<mjg59> Mithrandir: I WANT I WANT I WANT I WANT
* ogra wants 10
<Mithrandir> ogra: I don't have a balcony to put one on, so no.  Once I want one, I get one.
<sabdfl> girls love puppies too, and puppies take up less space
<Mortas> he raises a good point there
<bddebian> And are MUCH less expensive, believe me! :-)
<Mithrandir> bddebian: the patch tracker on *forge sucks, but the idea is good, I agree
* ogra already has dogs and cats and a lot other animals... 
<\sh> hmm...ponys? I like horse meat...I have to try someday a pony
<bddebian> hehe
<\sh> ogra: an \sh ;) 
* ogra wants bees !
<sabdfl> ok guys
<Mithrandir> ogra: I'd also need to buy a house rather than a flat, but Karianne wants one, so we'll probably get one at some point.
<mdz> sounds like we've exhausted the on-topic discussion
* Mithrandir stops sidetracking the meeting
<ajmitch> amazing how OT the questions get when ponies come up
<mdz> that's the end of the agenda
<mdz> any other business?
* bddebian blames mjg59
<\sh> I think mjg59 is a good choice for the TB
<bddebian> Me too
* pitti agrees
<ogra> absolutely
<sabdfl> \sh: go vote :-)
<\sh> sabdfl: i did already on saturday morning :)
<HiddenWolf> mjg59, with what slogan will you go forth and campaign? :)
<pitti> let's test LP with a vote DDoS
* Mithrandir couldn't vote, since LP crashed, but he agrees that mjg59 should be on the TB.
<dholbach> sabdfl: where was that page again?
<ajmitch> mjg59: will you be posting a summary of your position on things to the devel list? :)
<bddebian> pitti: :)
<ajmitch> mjg59: since many people wouldn't turn up to the TB meeting to hear your wisdom
<dholbach> ajmitch: it will be called interview :)
<\sh> sabdfl: or is my vote lost somehow?
<sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-dev/+poll/tb-nomination-mjg59-2005/
<dholbach> merci beaucoup
* ogra already votd on the eifel release party weekend with \sh 
<pitti> Application error.  Unauthenticated user POSTing to page that requires authentication.
<pitti> yay
<pitti> but I *am* logged in *whine*
<mdz> ajmitch: I'd planned to post the log as a followup on -devel
<ajmitch> mdz: good idea
<\sh> pitti: standard support question: Did you enable "Cookies"? *eg*
<Mithrandir> sabdfl: "system error" if you click "show all options" and "I vote for mjg59".
<Mithrandir> (without being logged in, at least.)
* pitti logs out and back in
<Mithrandir> when logged in as well.
<dholbach> worked fine for me
<ajmitch> sabdfl: when do you think we'll need to get another TB member?
<sabdfl> ajmitch: soon
<mvo> worked for me too
<pitti> now it works
<sabdfl> ok, we're done
<ajmitch> great
<pitti> thanks mjg59 
<dholbach> thanks
<mdz> adjourned, thanks everyone
<pitti> bye
* \sh goes to bed then...after rushing between two places (office -> home -> office) I'm tired :)
<\sh> cu tomorrow 
<sabdfl> night all
<ogra> night sabdfl 
<mvo> night sabdfl 
<sabdfl> thanks mjg59
<jbailey> ajmitch: Another TB member?  You gonna run? =
<jbailey> )
<bddebian> Heh
* bddebian votes for ajmitch ;-)
<ajmitch> jbailey: somehow I don't think I'm quite qualified :)
<ajmitch> jbailey: besides, I'm too well known as a MOTU supporter ;)
<bddebian> That's a BAD thing? ;-P
<ajmitch> bddebian: yes
<ajmitch> I'm tainted now 
<bddebian> Heh
* bddebian makes a note not to support MOTUs :-)
<Loiosh> LoL
* Loiosh gets an error
<ajmitch> Loiosh: doing?
<Loiosh> Voting? =)
<ajmitch> are you a MOTU or main uploader?
<Loiosh> OHH
<Loiosh> No! =)
<ajmitch> :)
<mdke> even so, it shouldn't be an error
<mdke> it should be "no permission"
* mdke has seen that one too
<Loiosh> No, it throws an error
<Loiosh>  Oops
<Loiosh> Sorry, something just went wrong in Launchpad. 
<mdke> yeah i believe you
<mdke> i had it too
* Loiosh licks launchpad.
<sistpoty> ajmitch: what do I have to do if I want to get a package i maintain in ubuntu to debian? file an itp and find a sponsor who uploads this package?
<ajmitch> sistpoty: yes
<sistpoty> ajmitch: ok, i did file an itp... could you sponsor me an upload ;)
<ajmitch> sistpoty: join the queue ;)
<sistpoty> *g*
<ajmitch> sistpoty: drop me an email with something about sponsoring in the topic
<ajmitch> s/topic/subject line/
<sistpoty> ok, will do... thx :)
<ajmitch> too much irc rots the brain..
<sistpoty> what do i need... just a source package or a binary as well?
<ajmitch> source package
<ajmitch> I won't touch the binary :)
<sistpoty> hehe... just thougth there was s.th. that you need one binary for debian uploads ;)
<ajmitch> yes
<ajmitch> and that binary is one I'll build
<sistpoty> k, thx ;)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-16
<Adri2000> @schedule paris
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Paris: 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board | 25 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu
<looksaus> helaba finalbeta
<finalbeta> heya
<hacker__> i kno more about computas than u all im da best hacker eva
<simira> hacker__: great! We have a lot of bugs for you to fix!
<hacker__> k
<hacker__> if the price is rite im all urs
<jsgotangco> lol
<simira> what's the point of paying? I thought you came to offer your expertise
<hacker__> fk no
<hacker__> i aint sum charity shit
<simira> but Canonical do look for new people, so if you're as good as you say, just apply
<hacker__> pay peanuts u get monkeys
<simira> sure you definitely look like one
<hacker__> thx
<simira> so just go ahead have a look on launchpad.net/malone
<hacker__> i may do l8er
<sivang> hehe
<poningru> hacker__: if you fix enough bugs we will hire you for a million bucks a year
<simira> sure
<simira> you 're just all words no action, right?
<hacker__> no
<poningru> then fix those bugs
<poningru> !!
<hacker__> i told u
<jsgotangco> now!!
<hacker__> its dosh or nuttin
<poningru> I told you
<jsgotangco> prove yourself first really
<poningru> if you fix enough
<poningru> then we hire you
<hacker__> lol i dun need 2 prove myself ;p if yall werent n00bs ud know who i am
<jsgotangco> yeah yeah excuses excuses
<simira> hacker__: you appearantly haven't proved yourself enough, then
<hacker__> k n00b
<simira> it's obvously not worth having you then, so why bother
<hacker__> w/e
<hacker__> ur loss
<poningru> darn
<simira> I am not convinced
<poningru> I will be sure to shed a tear
<hacker__> u do that
<poningru> \o/
<Fujitsu> Yay!
<Fujitsu> We're saved.
<Fujitsu> We
<Fujitsu> *We're all n00bs, 'cause we don
<Fujitsu> *don'
<Fujitsu> Gah.
<Fujitsu> I can't type tonight.
<Fujitsu> 'cause we don't know who he is.
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Oct 12:00 UTC: Community Council | 17 Oct 15:00 UTC: LoCo | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 24 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 17 Oct 07:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 10:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 14:00: Accessibility Team | 24 Oct 15:00: Technical Board
<sivang> @schedule Israel
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Israel: 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 21:00: Accessibility Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-17
<tonyyarusso> @schedule montreal
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 17 Oct 08:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 11:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 08:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 19:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 15:00: Accessibility Team | 24 Oct 16:00: Technical Board
<Hobbsee> @schedule sydney
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Australia/Sydney: 17 Oct 22:00: Community Council | 18 Oct 01:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 24 Oct 05:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 06:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> @schedule ROME
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 17 Oct 14:00: Community Council | 17 Oct 17:00: LoCo | 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 21:00: Accessibility Team | 24 Oct 22:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Community Council | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Oct 15:00 UTC: LoCo | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 24 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Ekushey> cc meeting in 5 minutes?
<JanC> yes
<Ekushey> ok cool
<jono> hey all
<Ekushey> hi jono
<lloydinho> hey jono.
<ajmitch> ello jono 
<Fujitsu> jono!
<jono> hows things folks?
<lloydinho> good.
<Ekushey> jono: waiting for the cc meeting to start :>
<Hobbsee> hey all
<looksaus> hi
<TheMuso> Hello all.
<Kamion> mako: are you going to be here? I'm flat-out with the edgy RC
<Swaps> hi!
<Ekushey> jono: can u pls check if this looks OK or not? --> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BangladeshiTeam/ApprovalApplication
<fouadbajwa> Hi
<Ekushey> hi fouad bhai :)
<jono> sorry phone, back now
<Ekushey> wb
<jono> Ekushey, let me check
<jono> hey fouadbajwa 
<Ekushey> sure, thanks
<looksaus> Swaps, hi
<fouadbajwa> Hi Ekushey and everyone else
<jono> any CC people here yet?
<Hobbsee> jono: ish.  they're having trouble with quorum again
<fouadbajwa> looks like everybody ready for the meeting, how far is it from exactly this moment, i mean in how many hours will the meeting start
<jono> trouble with quorum?
<jono> fouadbajwa, any second now :)
<Swaps> Hi delicious looksaus! :D
<jono> Ekushey, looks good, but could you flesh out your roadmap a little - provide some more detail :)
* Ekushey gets ready
<Kamion> jono: I'm here, but as above I'd rather be excused if we can assemble quorum without me
<jono> right
<Hobbsee> jono: you could form part of quorum temporarily? 
<Ekushey> jono: ok thanks
<smurf> Hobbsee: doesn't work that way ;-)
<jono> I am not on the CC though
<Hobbsee> jono: that surprises me.
<jono> I do intend to be on the CC when possible :)
<elmo> I'm not able to reach mark or mako, we may have to postpone
<Ekushey> hi smurf! long time no see
* Hobbsee would do it, but it's not part of the KCC's job to deal with ubuntu memberships :P
<Hobbsee> jono: which is when?
<smurf> elmo: *sigh*
<jono> Hobbsee, not sure really
<jono> Hobbsee, need to check into it
<ajmitch> Hobbsee: depends when new people are nominated to the CC
<Hobbsee> jono: indeed.  the other person who sometimes joins in when they're down on people is Seveas, but i'm not sure if he's here
<Hobbsee> true that
<bimberi> CC members are ratified by the membership
<jono> well I would be interesting in becoming a CC member at the next opportunity
<jono> naturally I would need support from the community for this
<looksaus> Hobbsee, Seveas told me he wouldn't be able to make it to this meeting
<Hobbsee> ahh okay
<Kamion> jono: we'll be talking about it at Mountain View; yours was one of the names I suggested to replace me, since I'm retiring
<Fujitsu> jono, you're the community manager, I think most members will support you.
<thoreauputic> jono: start lobbying *now* *grin*
<Hobbsee> Kamion: you're retiring?
<jono> Kamion, ahhh right
<looksaus> which is why he left a statement on my application page
<Kamion> Hobbsee: from the CC, yes
<Hobbsee> Kamion: ahh okay
<raphink> hi
<jono> heh, maybe I should start a presidential campaign :P
<Hobbsee> jono: that could be interesting
<thoreauputic> jono: nah, too expensive
<jono> thoreauputic, not my campaign - 2.50 all in :P
* Hobbsee idly wonders who else is on that list of names to replace with
<bimberi> hm, i would have thought that the CC and the Community Manager would be separate entities
<Fujitsu> Hey sabdfl!
<Hobbsee> hey sabdfl 
<yama> president of what? Trying to topple sabdfl ?
<jono> hey sabdfl 
<Hobbsee> looks like we have quorum.  elmo *poke*?
<thoreauputic> jono: ah, you're the economy candidate then ;)
<sabdfl> hey folks
<jono> thoreauputic, less of that.. :P
<Hobbsee> oh wait, isnt the CC three?  gah, i cant count.
<ajmitch> hi sabdfl 
<bimberi> hi ... ajmitch ;)
<ajmitch> hey bimberi :)
<raphink> hi ajmitch
<Tonio_> hi everyone
* ajmitch couldn't sleep, so might as well sit through a CC meeting instead
<raphink> hi Tonio_, sabdfl, Hobbsee
<Hobbsee> hey raphink 
<thoreauputic> ajmitch: that should help the insomnia
<bimberi> ajmitch: that'll help :)
<TheMuso> ajmitch: That must suck.
<bimberi> snap
<TheMuso> Not sleeping that is.
<sabdfl> so, let's look at the agenda
<thoreauputic> bimberi: :)
<sabdfl> are we in a position to take the IRC issue further?
* bimberi strongly suspects that Seveas would want to be here for that
<thoreauputic> sabdfl: you've probably seen seveas' comments elsewhere on that issue
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: i *doubt* anyone's prepared for that, not having expected you to be here.
<elmo> sabdfl: maybe we should defer that till UDS
* Hobbsee pings nalioth
<smurf> we have deferred that item for so long, three more weeks won't hurt any :-/
* yarddog is present and listening..
<elmo> sabdfl: I think it's something the whole CC should discuss (which we can't seem to do often) and would benefit from higher bandwidth
<elmo> but *shrug*
<Kamion> agree
<sabdfl> for the record, i'm not convinced by the GetOffFreenodeSpec
<sabdfl> it's light on substance
<Kamion> I also felt uncomfortable discussing it immediately post lilo's death
<jono> I agree to, and I think we need to talk about a phased move, if anything
<elmo> GetOffFreenodeSpec was meant to be superseded by something more substanial
<elmo> but apparently that never happened
<Kamion> although obviously we can't defer it forever
<thoreauputic> possibly peopel are reluctant to discuss it because it has potential for major disagreements
<sabdfl> well, i think we take it off the CC agenda till someone does a better job of the proposal
<jono> canonical channels moving seems a reasonable reason due to privacy, but I am not convinced by public channels moving
<sabdfl> i don't think the canonical issue is sufficient justification
<ogra> wasnt there a decision to move the -dvel channels already?
<sabdfl> we could run a private SSL-based authenticated IRC server if we really wanted a closed loop
<ogra> *-devel
<Kamion> is everyone in Canonical who cares about the distro in a position to deal with multiple networks easily?
<ogra> (in a former CC meeting)
<sabdfl> we should be where our users and upstream developers are
<Kamion> (I'd hope so)
<jono> sabdfl, I agree - I just heard reports of security issues on freenode
<sabdfl> Kamion: i think Gaim handles that
<sabdfl> jono: irritations more than issues
<jono> I think we need a better proposal as said though
<elmo> sabdfl: well, Debian moved to oftc, they're arguably a large chunk of our upstream
<thoreauputic> please notice that there are still over 600 people in #debian despite their move  - do we want aplit channels?
<JanC> upstream developers are on several networks already (e.g. GNOME)
<elmo> Kamion: yes
<sabdfl> i'd like to propose we remove this from the agenda till someone has done a better rationale
<jsgotangco> thoreauputic: however, that's not upstream channel
<azeem> thoreauputic: that channel is the exception, all the others have moved
<Kamion> sabdfl: I have no issues with that
<elmo> the canonical stuff is indeed irrelevant - we are going to be running a private IRC server for that
<sabdfl> ok, what's next?
<sabdfl> localisation team leader
<OgMaciel> morning all
<sabdfl> g'day OgMaciel :-)
<thoreauputic> azeem: my point is simply that splitting  the community seems like a retrograde step
<sabdfl> your timing is rather impeccable
<OgMaciel> hehehe
<OgMaciel> there was traffic
<OgMaciel> just arrived at work
<OgMaciel> ;)
<azeem> thoreauputic: it's the support channel, the community (i.e. #debian-devel) actually got *merged* by the move (it was split for years)
<sabdfl> thoreauputic: agreed, but that's off the agenda now till / unless we get a new proposal
* azeem shuts up
<thoreauputic> sabdfl: yup - OK
<sabdfl> so let's talk about ubuntu translations, and leadership
<zakame> hi all
<sabdfl> right now we have a pretty good infrastructure, in rosetta, though there are definitely issues there
<sabdfl> some issues relate to how we coordinate with upstream - i think those are improving, socially and technically
<sabdfl> some issues are to do with how teams are able to do QA on their membership
<quail> evening all
<sabdfl> keeping track of new suggestions and translations by members of the teams
<sabdfl> for teams who KNOW how all this works, it is getting better quickly
<sabdfl> but we don't have anyone leading, championing, translation in Ubuntu
<sabdfl> this person or team would:
<sabdfl>  - help new translation teams get started
<sabdfl>  - communicate regularly with the translation teams about release status and translation priorities
<sabdfl>    (i.e. "please translate Kamion's newest upload asap it cannot be updated post-release")
<sabdfl>  - help translation teams and LoCo teams coordinate with relevant upstreams, but telling them about best practice
<sabdfl> there's also a big opportunity to help improve the state of fontconfig and input method configuration in Ubuntu for many languages
<Kamion> I'd also expect:
<Kamion>  - liaise with the development team regarding bugs/issues affecting translations
<sabdfl> which requires working in many cases with the same groups of people
<zakame> hmm something nearly like what bubulle does for debian, right?
<jsgotangco> well we do get alerts from debian to "hey update this and that"
<Kamion> zakame: bubulle and Denis Barbier and others, yes
<sabdfl> elmo, mako, any other suggestions? zakame: yes, bubulle is great
<Kamion> bubulle is very good at making sure translators are clued up on all their technical requirements, and if necessary setting up systems to simplify and automate those
<sabdfl> jsgotangco: we notice updates when we sync in new work from debian
<Kamion> so I'd hope that an Ubuntu translation coordinator would also help to liaise with the Launchpad team regarding blocking issues for translators
<Hobbsee> (as a sidenote:  if that someone could deal with the rosetta/kde upstream relationship too, that'd be good.)
<sabdfl> OgMaciel: do you want to tell us a bit about yourself, and how you see the role, and what you would bring to it?
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: sure thing
<sabdfl> Hobbsee: i think the rosetta guys are speaking directly with kde upstream
<Hobbsee> sabdfl: oh good.  
* Hobbsee has heard kde upstream's opinions on it, but that's offtopic :)
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: I feel very "attracted" to this role, since my involvement with Ubuntu has always been related to translation and advocacy
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: I have formed some ideas about how things should be for things to *just work*
<OgMaciel> things that require a lot of flexibility from all parties
<sabdfl> OgMaciel: do you have much experience with .po, gettext, fontconfig, scim?
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: not extensive for the bulk of my work has been done through Rosetta
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: but I do thing Rosetta has the potential to lessen the learning curve there
<OgMaciel> that is the beauty of things
<sabdfl> part of this job is social - leadership and communication and advocacy
<OgMaciel> if we all can get together and talk to upstream folks, we could have a system that would benefit everyone
<sabdfl> part of it is technical
<jono> OgMaciel, what impact would the role have with your duties in your LoCo team?
<sabdfl> do you think that should be split into two roles?
<OgMaciel> jono: I have thought of that... and I believe it is time for someone else take the leadership of pt_BR LoCo...  someone local
<jono> OgMaciel, ok
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: I actually see this as a sub-group activity
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: a couple of guys sharing these responsibilities
<sabdfl> OgMaciel: what would you say you have learned from the pt_BR experience?
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: in terms of translations, I noticed that a few things need to be changed as far as nomenclature goes, in order for people to feel they're part of something
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: the word "leader" and "oficial" throws people off
<Kamion> OgMaciel: how comfortable would you be liaising with the development team, and how would you go about identifying and addressing problems affecting translations?
<OgMaciel> Kamion: for one thing, I'd set up regular meetings where groups could get together and discuss issues
<OgMaciel> Kamion: it would also serve as a source of sharing info
<OgMaciel> I also believe it is extremelly important to get upstream more involved
<Kamion> as in translation groups, or translators+developers, or somewhere in between?
<jsgotangco> why not revive the traffic in the -translators list as well
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco: +1
<OgMaciel> Kamion: between
<OgMaciel> I envision a worldwide repository of translations
<OgMaciel> where upstream would step up
<OgMaciel> and actually stear things
<OgMaciel> I would gladly take their experience in account
<OgMaciel> make upstream pristine
<OgMaciel> and make Rosetta a never ending source of suggestions
<jono> OgMaciel, how would you resolve conflict?
<OgMaciel> jono: I would make upstream pristine and the default translation
<OgMaciel> jono: and would sit down with them
<OgMaciel> upstream that is
<OgMaciel> and lock them up until they were convinced to jump in and help us turn Rosetta into a repository of suggestions
<OgMaciel> and have them teach us their methods
<OgMaciel> and speed things up
<sabdfl> easy, OgMaciel, i don't think you should base your plans on huge changes in rosetta
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: got carried away there
<OgMaciel> ;)
<sabdfl> most of what we are looking at now is not based on rosetta, but on community leadership and coordination
<joeCoT> or extreme cooperation from upstream :)
<OgMaciel> hehe
<sabdfl> getting carried away won't help - we're really looking for someone who can coordinate and lead the existing effort
<jsgotangco> OgMaciel: most people will actually tell you how efficient doing translations in cvs is compared to rosetta despite the extremely low learning curve
<OgMaciel> well, I would suggest that people get a hold of their respective upstream groups and initiate some communication
<jono> OgMaciel, exactly, this role really requires diplomacy at all levels
<OgMaciel> jono: agreed
<sabdfl> i think it most requires patience and diligence, together with some champion-advocacy
<Kamion> phone
<Hobbsee> OgMaciel: which is difficult when they tell you that it's a waste of time to be using rosetta?  How do you deal with such things?
<OgMaciel> Hobbsee: I usually show them Rosetta in action
<OgMaciel> Hobbsee: for instance
<Hobbsee> ouch, my timing is a litle bad, sorry.
<OgMaciel> Hobbsee: I would pick a string that is considered to be inaccurate
<Belutz> is the loco meeting started yet?
<OgMaciel> Hobbsee: and would show them how to "fix" it
<OgMaciel> Hobbsee: and I would approve the fix
<gnomefre1k> Belutz: this is the CC meeting
<OgMaciel> Hobbsee: get the PO, do a switch-a-roo, and voila'
<Hobbsee> Belutz: just over 2 more hours
<Belutz> gnomefre1k: oopss, must be the time difference
<jono> Belutz, not for a while yet
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: there is only one major issue for me
<OgMaciel> sabdfl: time
<OgMaciel> this is a somewhat huge task
<OgMaciel> and my new job doesn't give me a lot of free time
<sabdfl> it is a big responsibility, yes
<jsgotangco> but i think you don't need a one-to-one conversation to do most of the work
<OgMaciel> so I'm here to support maybe someone else to take the role... and I would do my best to support this individual
<Kamion> OgMaciel: is your new job free-software-friendly?
<OgMaciel> Kamion: extremelly friendly
<OgMaciel> ;)
<Kamion> that often helps
<OgMaciel> my boss is very easy going
<OgMaciel> and we are on IRC all the time
<OgMaciel> I guess for starters, starting regular meetings for translators could get the ball rolling
<OgMaciel> rosetta guys could also attend them
<jono> it might be an idea to get an idea for minimum time commitment for the role and see if OgMaciel can satisfy that
<OgMaciel> jono: I like the sound of that
<OgMaciel> I am more than willing to step into this position
<sabdfl> yes, we could definitely get the rosetta guys to those meetings
<amachu> hi all
<amachu> Sri Ramadoss alias amachu here
<amachu> has the meeting started?
<mindspin> cc already
<OgMaciel> we could start holding some online "classes" for translators too
<Hobbsee> OgMaciel: hooking up with the ubuntu classroom people, maybe?
<OgMaciel> Hobbsee: asolutely  ;)
<OgMaciel> absolutely
<jsgotangco> are there any questions for OgMaciel?
<jsgotangco> any more
<jono> if no decision is being made today, can I suggest the applicants for this position maybe write up a wiki page with their plans, experience etc for further discussion
<jsgotangco> jono: +1
<jsgotangco> but amachu is here already might as well give him a chance as well since OgMaciel did say his piece
<mindspin> Isn't it an issue between those who did translation work for other projects and those who stumble into rosetta and start doing translations "from the bottom line"?
<OgMaciel> jsgotangco: +1
<sabdfl> amachu: we are discussing the translation leadership position
* OgMaciel would love to hear amachu's ideas
<amachu> sabdfl: yes
<sabdfl> could you introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about your experience with translation, fontconfig, input methods, etc
<sabdfl> also, contributions and participation in ubuntu translation
<amachu> yes..
<sabdfl> and how you would lead such an effort?
<amachu> shall i start?
<sabdfl> yes please!
<Kamion> sabdfl: perhaps it would be fair to repeat your intro from earlier?
<sabdfl> i must unfortunately step into another meeting now. 
<amachu> I am sri ramadas, contact person of Ubuntu Tamil Team
<sabdfl> Kamion: ok, can I paste?
<Kamion> sure
<sabdfl> (13:21:46) sabdfl: so let's talk about ubuntu translations, and leadership
<sabdfl> (13:21:55) zakame [n=zakame@ubuntu/member/zakame]  entered the room.
<sabdfl> (13:21:58) sabdfl: right now we have a pretty good infrastructure, in rosetta, though there are definitely issues there
<sabdfl> (13:21:58) zakame: hi all
<sabdfl> (13:22:17) sabdfl: some issues relate to how we coordinate with upstream - i think those are improving, socially and technically
<sabdfl> (13:22:28) sabdfl: some issues are to do with how teams are able to do QA on their membership
<sabdfl> (13:22:32) quail: evening all
<sabdfl> (13:22:38) sabdfl: keeping track of new suggestions and translations by members of the teams
<sabdfl> (13:22:48) sabdfl: for teams who KNOW how all this works, it is getting better quickly
<sabdfl> (13:22:56) sabdfl: but we don't have anyone leading, championing, translation in Ubuntu
<sabdfl> (13:23:01) sabdfl: this person or team would:
<sabdfl> (13:23:08) sabdfl:  - help new translation teams get started
<sabdfl> (13:23:25) sabdfl:  - communicate regularly with the translation teams about release status and translation priorities
<amachu> we started in august and is now twelve in number
<sabdfl> (13:23:43) sabdfl:    (i.e. "please translate Kamion's newest upload asap it cannot be updated post-release")
<sabdfl> (13:24:10) sabdfl:  - help translation teams and LoCo teams coordinate with relevant upstreams, but telling them about best practice
<sabdfl> (13:24:35) sabdfl: there's also a big opportunity to help improve the state of fontconfig and input method configuration in Ubuntu for many languages
<sabdfl> (13:24:37) Kamion: I'd also expect:
<sabdfl> (13:24:38) Kamion:  - liaise with the development team regarding bugs/issues affecting translations
<sabdfl> (13:24:44) sabdfl: which requires working in many cases with the same groups of people
<sabdfl> (13:24:59) zakame: hmm something nearly like what bubulle does for debian, right?
<amachu> we perform translation on rosetta, 
<sabdfl> (13:25:19) jsgotangco: well we do get alerts from debian to "hey update this and that"
<sabdfl> (13:25:22) Kamion: zakame: bubulle and Denis Barbier and others, yes
<sabdfl> (13:25:23) sabdfl: elmo, mako, any other suggestions? zakame: yes, bubulle is great
<sabdfl> that's it
<sabdfl> i'll read scrollback later
<amachu> hi.. sabdfl: listening to me?
<sabdfl> cheers all
<zakame> cheers sabdfl 
<sabdfl> amachu: yes, the rest of the group is, i need to step afk
<OgMaciel> take care sabdfl
<Belutz> cheers sabdfl :)
<Fujitsu> Bye, sabdfl_afk!
<jono> later sabdfl_afk 
<amachu> We all in our Team use SCIM input method for Translation
<amachu> www.ubuntu-tam.org is our website
<amachu> Now, my opinions of Translations and plans...
<amachu> 1) We need to have strong back up of vocalulary of local language, to carry out translation
<amachu> vocabulary
<amachu> so we tied up with Tamil Wiktionary, a Wikipedia project, to collect English words and theri corresponding Tamil words
<OgMaciel> cool
<amachu> http://ta.wiktionary.org/
<jsgotangco> amachu: how would you work on upstream with regards to translations, not just with tamil?
<amachu> we find the way we work in Tamil is paying dividends and can be applied to other teams also
<amachu> Rosetta as such has one disadvantage as far as developing countries..
<zakame> brb
<amachu> unavailabity of broad band connections...
<amachu> so colleges and other educational institutions are the key
<jsgotangco> amachu: im sorry but most of these are infrastructural and the position of translation team leader is more social in nature (but there are some technical issues as well), the model the tamil team adopts may not be as successful to other teams, for various reasons and require nurturing
<amachu> sure 
<amachu> jsgotangco: I agree
<Kamion> amachu: we'd like to hear more about how you'd liaise with other teams (including Ubuntu development and Rosetta), train new translators, that ort of thing
<Kamion> ort -> sort
<amachu> Kamion: training new translators, we should have pre-prepared documents on training tools.. the transalating tools like KBabel, GTranslator...
<amachu> Next, All the words that have bee translated uptill now should be available for download collectively (one time download), since brb is not readily available..
<Kamion> have you done anything to date that involved working with code changes required to support translations better?
<OgMaciel> I think amachu touched an important part, which is getting more documents about *best practices* for performing translations using Rosetta, etc
<jono>  agreed
<OgMaciel> it would be interesting getting LoCo teams that share some of the languages, like spanish for instance, together
<amachu> no not as yet...
<OgMaciel> there's a slight chance that they could benefit from each others efforts
<amachu> Now if all translations done uptil now are available then huge amount of time will be saved in re-translating the same word
<amachu> Rosetta does that but brb is concern
<Kamion> "brb"?
<amachu> broad band connectivity
<OgMaciel> maybe someone could start a thread titled: "How we [LoCo team name goes here]  operate"?
<amachu> Kbabel is the best tool we have witnessed
<amachu> it comes with Dictinary management services
<fouadbajwa> a small question, shouldn't there be a feature in Launchpad for a team admin to be able to send a message to all team members
<amachu> so, if the teams could download the PO file that contains all translations, add it to their local Kabel dictionary, half the time is saved...
<fouadbajwa> i know the LoCo team lists are there
<fouadbajwa> but still
<Kamion> fouadbajwa: I think that's off-topic here; #launchpad, or a bug report
<fouadbajwa> oh
<fouadbajwa> i was asking in light of LoCo Teams
<amachu> now Teams should be encouraged to create communities dedicated for a particular application
<fouadbajwa> seeking suggestion
<fouadbajwa> whether to propose or not
<OgMaciel> fouadbajwa: please do file a feature request about that :)
<Kamion> ok
<fouadbajwa> okay, this has to be done at #launchpad right
<amachu> so that their translation of a particular application doesn't get obsolete when a new version of that application is released
<JanC> that bug rapport exists and is a year old or something like that  :)
<Kamion> amachu: thanks for your comments; I think the CC will need some time to consider the applications
<fouadbajwa> i think if all of the teamleads here propose
<fouadbajwa> it might just wokr
<OgMaciel> fouadbajwa: correct... let me know in pvt if you need help with that
<fouadbajwa> work
<Kamion> so we will report either next meeting, or after the conference in Mountain View
<fouadbajwa> hmm, 
<fouadbajwa> right
<Kamion> elmo: any idea whether sabdfl's going to be back for locoteam/membership?
<elmo> Kamion: no, he's appeared but already run off to another meeting
<elmo> how about we use this opportunity to trial jono
<amachu> Kamion: Thank U
<jono> elkbuntu, surwe
<jono> sure
<Kamion> certainly for locoteams, at least
<fouadbajwa> haha
<elmo> get him to act as 3rd, and have sabdfl ok that and/or the applicants later?
<fouadbajwa> we don't have to trial Jono
<Kamion> (we've never been too bothered about strict voting requirements on those)
* elkbuntu redirects the comment
<fouadbajwa> he has already proved his mark
<fouadbajwa> with the Official Ubuntu Guide ;)
<fouadbajwa> have you all read the guide
<elmo> ok, so let's do locoteams
<fouadbajwa> does anyone have a pdf version of the Official Ubuntu Book?
<fouadbajwa> i have chm version
<jsgotangco> fouadbajwa: please OT
<jono> right can I make a few points about loco's first?
<amachu> fouadbajwa: the desktop guide?
<gnomefreak> fouadbajwa: i think thats a bit offtopic for this meeting
<fouadbajwa> okay
<elmo> jono: sure
<jono> I have restructured how LoCos get approved a little - they still need to go before the CC, but I have written https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved and ask them to make an approval wiki page
<jono> this gives CC members and others a good way of looking at an application
<jono> if the CC are ok with it, I would like to make this a requirement to be approved
<jono> it makes the process quicker and clearer
<jono> LoCo teams can liase with me to get their approval pages written and up to scratch
<jono> when they are done, we can present them at a CC meeting such as this and make a decent decision - I will then move teams to the approved status if required
<jono> thats it really :)
<jono> just so everyone was clear on what I have been doing :)
<jono> ok, so lets look at each team
* Ekushey is from the Bangladeshi Team
<jono> should we do Bangledeshi team then :)
<jono> did youy guys want to say a few things to support your application?
<Ekushey> jono: like what?
<Kamion> jono: I am entirely OK with that procedure. Also worth noting that we like to see that the team is broadly secure in its structure (i.e. no major conflicts over leadership, etc.)
<jono> Kamion, right
<Kamion> which brings us rather neatly to the Bangladeshi team ;)
<jono> have their been leadership issues here?
<Kamion> jono: see last meeting's log
<Kamion> Ekushey: btw, yes, your mail arrived, sorry nobody replied to say that
<Ekushey> Kamion: there isn't any leadership or other kind of conflicts. it's just that this guys named MAK doesn't like me personally so he says all crap.
<Kamion> Ekushey: perhaps I should have said alleged conflict
<Ekushey> Kamion: did that guy wrote to CC?
<Kamion> give me a chance to check my archives here
* jono reads the log
<elmo> I can't see anything
<Ekushey> Kamion: so can we get our team approved? we've been waiting for a long time now.
<Kamion> Ekushey: HANG ON :-)
<Ekushey> ok
<Kamion> OK, so Ekushey's mail seems entirely reasonable to me; it appears to be a grudge that should not be relevant to the Ubuntu team
<Kamion> makl10n has not mailed us to defend himself
<Ekushey> Kamion: i don't understand why he's after me :(
<Ekushey> Kamion: he keeps on sending me hate mails
<jono> I don't think I can comment either way as I am not familar with the conflict
<jono> application looks reasonable, would be nice to see a bit more experience
<Kamion> so I think at this point we should consider that conflict irrelevant
<Kamion> elmo: ?
<elmo> agreed
<jono> sounds reasonable
<jono> Ekushey, do you lead the team?
<Ekushey> jono: yes
<jono> Ekushey, the IRC channel seems very empty
<Ekushey> jono: irc isn't very popular in bangladesh
<jono> right
<jono> the list also seem fairly quiet
<Ekushey> jono: i've mailed and asked ppl to join the irc channel but appearently they don't like it much
<jono> I think I would recommend building up the groups communication channels
<jono> Ekushey, sure, but I think it would be wise to encourage discussion on the mailing list
<jono> I would see an approved team having a certain amount of information flow going on
<Ekushey> jono: we've started doing monthly meetings, and i'm sure it'll help
<jono> the work you are doing Ekushey looks great, I just think it maybe needs a touch more to get things rolling
<jono> Ekushey, excellent :)
<Ekushey> jono: we had our first meeting yesterday, 13 joined
<jono> Ekushey, fantastic, that is the kind of stuff to get things moving
<Ekushey> jono: i'm trying
<Ekushey> jono: i'm trying my best
<jono> I would recommend you keep doing these things to build up the communication and defer approval for a little while
<Ekushey> jono: oh ok.
<jono> not sure what the CC think though
<jono> Ekushey, I don't want to dishearten you, but I think you are 80% there and just need to get the communication flowing on your mailing list
<Ekushey> jono: 56 signed up on the list, but they don't reply my posts
<Ekushey> jono: i got your point
<Kamion> I think if they're on the right direction, rather than having to go through another round of meetings, maybe we should just monitor for a while and only bring them back if there seems to be a problem
<jono> Ekushey, well we can have a chat about how to get things rolling
<Kamion> does that sound reasonable?
<jono> Kamion, you mean approve with a probationary period sort of thing?
<jono> I am happy to keep an eye on what they are doing an approve it then if needed
<Kamion> yeah, I'm kind of thinking out loud
<jono> so if the CC are happy with the structure of the group (which seems sound) - I can then finally approve when the comunication is up and running
<Kamion> I'm provisionally OK, pending comment from elmo/sabdfl
<jono> ok
<Ekushey> so we'll have to wait longer, right?
<elmo> works fo rme
<jono> Ekushey, approval is not the end game, getting an active LoCo is
<jono> Ekushey, we are saying that you are provisionally approved - you just need to get more communication going and then I will finally approve it :)
<Ekushey> jono: alright i understand, thanks
<jono> Ekushey, :)
<Kamion> Ekushey: aim of this exercise is that you won't have to sit through another CC meeting as long as you're still basically on the right lines :)
<jono> exactamundo
<Ekushey> thanks Kamion
<Ekushey> thanks to elmo too
<jono> are we going to wait for sabdfl's views for when he gets back?
<Kamion> he can fill us in later
<jono> ok
<jono> so, Belgian team
<looksaus> ok...
<jono> the application looks excellent
<JanC> here  :)
<Swaps> here
<looksaus> have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BelgianTeamApprovalApplication
<jono> how is leadership in the team folks?
<looksaus> officially, at the beginning, there was Lionel "ploum" Dricot
<looksaus> he got quite a few ubuntu-minded people together in february 2006
<JanC> (during FOSDEM)
<looksaus> at FOSDEM, a free and open source developer meeting
<looksaus> he seemed to have little spare time and things
<jono> right
<JanC> so now looksaus is pulling us forward  :)
<looksaus> so in may, I brought people together for preparing press attention for the Dapper release and things
<looksaus> Lionel seems to like that
<looksaus> for the little we've still heard of him
<jono> so it sounds like a happy relationship
<looksaus> yes
<jono> well its a +1 for me
<jono> you guys some to be doing a rocking job
<looksaus> heh, thx...
<Kamion> the Belgian team has been around for a long time, and I've never heard any complaints
<Kamion> the support points map is a neat idea and seems to have a fair bit of participation; great
<MagicFab> looksaus, what is the licence of the maps / support app ?
<looksaus> free software, of course, with an invitation for other teams to join in on the development
<looksaus> https://launchpad.net/people/mapdevs/+branch/support.points.map/dev
<MagicFab> looksaus, it would be nice to make that clear either on lp or the site (or both)
<jono> could I encourage the belgian team to write about the support points map on loco-contacts so other groups can set up a similar thing
<looksaus> jono, have done so already
<JanC> of course
<looksaus> :)
<jono> oh cool :)
<looksaus> you were on holiday
<jono> is there a HOWTO of how to do it?
<looksaus> the code behind the running thing is really simple, but a bit messy
<Kamion> worth getting somebody to package it, maybe
<jono> ok, we can discuss this later :)
<JanC> currently there is the old, currently running code and the new version which is not ready yet
<jono> elmo, thoughts on the belgian approval?
<looksaus> what's there on new code is very clean, with clear use cases behind it
<looksaus> it's almost ready for general use in other locoteams
<MagicFab> looksaus, that URL doesn't offer a package, nor the licence in a clear way, would love to see that (for use in 2 locoteams I help with)
<looksaus> ah, maybe a bit special about our locoteam is that we would like to have JanC
<looksaus> as our main locoteams contact
<elmo> jono: looks fine to me
<looksaus> so no me
<elmo> sorry, was afk
<jono> can we do the pakistani team now as fouadbajwa must leave for prayers in 20 mins
<looksaus> so not me...
<fouadbajwa> hi again
<jono> ok we will wait for sabdfl's views until he returns
<Kamion> looksaus: shouldn't be a problem
<fouadbajwa> sure
<looksaus> k, thx
<elmo> jono: I think we can assume loco teams are ok with the 3 of us
<Kamion> looksaus: you're Mark van den Borre?
<looksaus> yes
<jono> ok
<jono> elmo, sounds cool
<jono> this approval application is astonishingly detailed
<fouadbajwa> we got Ubuntu rolling with 4800 certified Ubuntu Linux users in the market endorsed by the Government of Pakistan, Government of Punjab, University of the Punjab
<jsgotangco> 4800 wow
<fouadbajwa> 215,000 Free CDs rolling in the market
<fouadbajwa> and we did a visit to CD vendors
<looksaus> sponsored by local government?
<fouadbajwa> place boxes everywhere
<fouadbajwa> yes
<jsgotangco> double wow
<fouadbajwa> The Govt of Pak and the Pakistan Telecommunications Authority and the Higher Education Commission are considering Ubuntu to be loaded into the government
<jono> fouadbajwa, tell us about leadership
<fouadbajwa> We have two leaders at the moment, since i am in Punjab in the provincial capital, the other team leader is for translation l10n Urdu
<MagicFab> fouadbajwa, is there any difference between work done/endorsed by fossfp.org and the Loco Team itself ?
<fouadbajwa> we are now starting 2 meetups atleast per month
<fouadbajwa> from my city first
<fouadbajwa> i have been able to form a consortium of companies to participate
<fouadbajwa> ISVs are on our hitlist
<fouadbajwa> Mark advised me to focus on ISVs when he visited us in January this year
<fouadbajwa> 8000 telecenters are also in pipeline
<jsgotangco> does the locoteam itself = fossfp.org?
<fouadbajwa> no
<fouadbajwa> FOSSFP is just an enabler
<fouadbajwa> a voluntary associate of Scholars, Govt people, Students, Professional users
<fouadbajwa> they push anything thats FOSS
<fouadbajwa> working with the United Nations
<fouadbajwa> at civil society level
<jono> fouadbajwa, there seems to be an awful lot of ideas, but how many get achieved?
<fouadbajwa> but have heavy influence in govts and all
<fouadbajwa> most of them are already achieved, not ideas, i have sent in reports
<fouadbajwa> and the canonical team has met with the govt leaders and IT industry
<jono> right
<fouadbajwa> we are now supporting the ecosystem through making available 
<jono> fouadbajwa, any problems in the group?
<fouadbajwa> technical support and more participation in localization efforts
<fouadbajwa> a bit
<fouadbajwa> Urdu
<fouadbajwa> not many people speak english
<jono> any conflicts with other members?
<fouadbajwa> and software piracy
<fouadbajwa> there are some conflicts that get settled with communication
<jono> right
<fouadbajwa> and the result of a recent one has been that the member was allowed leadership so that he could experience the real issues
<jono> well this looks all very good to me
<fouadbajwa> its better to let them take lead
<jono> I know fouadbajwa has worked very hard
<fouadbajwa> and see it for themselves
<jono> so its a +1 for me
<fouadbajwa> i would also like to mention here
<fouadbajwa> that our region is south asia
<elmo> ack from me too
<MagicFab> Pardon my intrusion, but I don't see anything explicitly defining a Loco team for Pakistan vs. FPSSFP.org + Canonical. See: http://www.fossfp.org/ubuntupakistan
<fouadbajwa> Magic that is very old information from last year
<fouadbajwa> we were then advised from Canonical and the Ubuntu community to take the team out in the public
<fouadbajwa> i will have fossfp remove that information
<jono> fouadbajwa, how does FOSSWP and ubuntu-pk differ?
<fouadbajwa> as it is no valid now
<MagicFab> Ubuntu is about more than "just open source / free software" which would seem to go agains FOSSFP.org mission / objectives. Can that be clarified ? We have similar issues for local groups here (QC, Canada)
<jsgotangco> just a question, how does fossfp and iosn south asia cooperate at the moment (i know its pretty OT)
<fouadbajwa> like i said FOSSFP only housed the team for a few days during the national FOSS awareness campaign
<fouadbajwa> giving us 600 computers, 600 volunteers and 22 Ubuntu trainres
<fouadbajwa> after that it was moved out of the University and has been operating independently building more community members from the open
<fouadbajwa> now within the meetups from november
<fouadbajwa> we will be engaging at an average 10 new members per month
<fouadbajwa> and as the telecenter initiative rolls out
<jsgotangco> for all its worth a lot of ubuntu advocacy has been done for sure 
<MagicFab> fouadbajwa, I feel it needs clarification unless today you are proposing to forma a distinct, independent group not necessarily 100% aligned with FOSSP.org
<fouadbajwa> we can imagine the number of Ubuntu system admins
<fouadbajwa> Magic, there is no FOSSFP any more with Ubuntu-pk
<fouadbajwa> it only supported it 
<fouadbajwa> in terms of infrastructure and advocacy
<MagicFab> fouadbajwa, that sound great! So it's only misunderstanding from outdated info.
<fouadbajwa> FOSSFP is a UNCTAD partner for developing world countries
<fouadbajwa> it works in all of south asia
<elmo> fouadbajwa: Jane Silber has some concerns about the language on that page WRT Canonical - could you be sure to coordinate with her about getting those resolved?
<fouadbajwa> i only do reports for them now 
<fouadbajwa> no official status
<elmo> (the FOSSFP page, I mean)
<fouadbajwa> yes elmo
<elmo> fouadbajwa: ok, good, thanks
<fouadbajwa> i am sending a note to fossfp for complete removal
<MagicFab> I also think FOSSFP.org and ubuntu-pk.org badly need updating before getting any official team status.
<fouadbajwa> and if there are any more issues, they will meet resolution immediately 
<fouadbajwa> yes Jono and Mathew are working with me
<fouadbajwa> since we had no Moin Moin expertise
<fouadbajwa> we have ported to drupal
<fouadbajwa> we are working on the drupal site now
<fouadbajwa> smurf has been notified about the new dns changes
<fouadbajwa> that will soon point to the new ubuntu-pk.org
<MagicFab> ubuntu-pk.org has 0 content, so I guess there are plans to move things there eventually
<fouadbajwa> and u will all be pleased to see Ubuntu in full bloom
<fouadbajwa> oh 
<fouadbajwa> if you can make host changes to your host file, i will give you the IP of the new siet
<fouadbajwa> site, that should be pointed to the new settings within this week
<MagicFab> fouadbajwa, no rush, just asking.
<fouadbajwa> Jono can u back the detail of the ubuntu-pk.org that Mathew and i have been ccing :)
<jono> yes
<fouadbajwa> no problems Magic, i am here to clarify anything
<jono> there has been some discussion about setting up the site
<fouadbajwa> the theme has been contributed from Ubuntu Chicago
<fouadbajwa> wiki has been loaded by the Ubuntu webmaster
<jono> fouadbajwa, so all of the experience and roadmap on the application is part of ubuntu-pk?
<jsgotangco> heh the universal ubuntu drupal theme heh
<fouadbajwa> yes, no more fossfp :)
<fouadbajwa> yeah great work Chicago
<fouadbajwa> !
<fouadbajwa> fabulous
<fouadbajwa> and more teams have also shared there themes, there should be a wiki ;page on ubuntu with all these themes
<jono> fouadbajwa, ok if you can state for the record that this is all part of ubuntu-pk, then this is fine with me
<elmo> Kamion: what do you think?
<fouadbajwa> yes this is all Ubuntu-pk
<jsgotangco> fouadbajwa: it just so happened that we were on the same server so we shared the theme from the beginning
<MagicFab> I am just worried that you're putting all the weight of FOSSFP in your application and it's not clear how bot relate(d). But if there's been other comm. I miseed, I can see how it's evolved.
<fouadbajwa> they were just supporting Magic nothing else
<fouadbajwa> they are a consortium of a large number of FOSS activists and researchers
<fouadbajwa> and just contributing local Ubuntu CDs
<fouadbajwa> and software mirrors
<fouadbajwa> you can check within one week, no information on Ubuntu association will be there
<Kamion> elmo: happy to go with jono here, if the FOSSFP confusion is sorted out
<Kamion> and ubuntu-pk.org is fixed
<MagicFab> I don't say everything ubuntu should disappear from their servers/site, quite the tcontrary. Just that the relationship between both is not clear to any new potential loco members.
<fouadbajwa> will be sorted out within these 7 days, 
<jono> ok, lets wait for it to be fixed and then I will approve
<fouadbajwa> mailing list and ubuntu pages have been requested for removal
<fouadbajwa> could this approval then be just based on email notification and show of cause through www.fossfp.org?
<gnomefreak> just a reminder next meeting is in 45 minutes. 
<jono> fouadbajwa,I think the general opinion is that we wan to see the changeover happen first and then there will approval
<fouadbajwa> thats what i mean, when i get there email that they have resolved the issue, i will notify you through email
<fouadbajwa> and you can check there website so forth
<jono> sure
<jono> sounds good
<jono> if all is resolved, we can then approve
<jono> if the CC are happy with this, I am :)
<elmo> fine by me
<fouadbajwa> sure okay :) sent out them the email request :) 
<elmo> ok, so shall we move then?
<elmo> member candidates...
* pschulz01 is here.
<elmo> JohanLundmark sebastean (September 23) - here?
<fouadbajwa> okay guys thanks and bye, i have to leave for prayers
<jono> thanks fouadbajwa 
<elmo> Andrew Hodgkinson (September 26) - here?
<elmo> Michael Bienia geser (October 11) - here?
* geser is here
<lophyte> go geser :)
<elmo> geser: go ahead with your intro?
* yama is present
<geser> sure
<geser> wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichaelBienia
<geser> LP: https://launchpad.net/people/geser
<geser> My name is Michael Bienia. I'm 26 years old and live in Dortmund, Germany.
<geser> I'm using Ubuntu since the development cycle of breezy but only started in august 2006 to also contribute to Ubuntu.
<geser> Since than I was fixing packages with unmet deps and doing sync and merges for packages in universe. crimsun sponsored my uploads and also reviewed my sync requests.
<geser> Currently I'm also mentoring/advising lophyte on MOTU work
<geser> questions?
* Hobbsee has also sponsored some of geser's uploads
<elmo> any MOTUs want to comment/cheerlead for geser?
<lophyte> I'm not a MOTU, but I can say that geser has done an awesome job helping me out with getting into MOTU work
<lophyte> he's been very helpful in bringing me up to date on the swing of things, so to speak
<MagicFab> geser, I don't see that you have signe the code of conduct in LP ?
<elmo> Hobbsee: how were the uploads?
<elmo> magicfab: Ubuntero:  Yes  <-- means he has
<Hobbsee> elmo: mostly good.  there were a few errors, but most were fine.  geser's quick to fix any of them though
* Hobbsee notes that he's probably gotten another billion debdiffs that u-u-s is subscribed to to upload :P
<elmo> ok, well, I'm pretty happy, there's a lot of packages here in a realtively short period of time
<elmo> Kamion/jono: what do you think?
<Hobbsee> between him and fujitsu...they keep us busy :P
<MagicFab> elmo: there would be a "Codes of conduct" entry in his page, which I don't see.
<elmo> MagicFab: *shrug* I can see it?
<elmo> magicfab: https://launchpad.net/people/geser/+codesofconduct
<Kamion> I've been processing a certain amount of geser's work as an ubuntu-archive member and it's seemed well-organised
<Kamion> he's been contributing for a reasonable amount of time too
<Kamion> I'm happy
<jono> sorry was on phone, reading up
<jono> I don't know geser really
<MagicFab> elmo: access to that page is restricted (so no menu entry), but thanks.
<Hobbsee> jono: i would suspect that's because you havent really been in the same circles.
<Hobbsee> jono: he's active in -motu, and -bugs - and the u-u-s, of course
<jono> right
<Hobbsee> (where the u-u-s is the ubuntu-universe-sponsors team)
<culix> my name is Mario and it is the first time for me to visit a CC, but i can say that geser is also a good supporter in #ubuntu-de, always friendly and helpful, just my 2 cents
<geser> I try to help in #ubuntu-de when I can
<elmo> ok, so let's move on for now
<elmo> geser: you've got a +2 from kamion and I, sabdfl will be checking the logs later to give you a quorate vote
<geser> thanks
<elmo> PaulSchulz pschulz01 (October 16)
<pschulz01> Greetings all...
<pschulz01> wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PaulSchulz
<pschulz01> 37 years, live in Adelaide, South Australia, and work as a Linux
<pschulz01> System Adminsitator during the day.
<pschulz01> I first appeared before the CC in May, and was asked to come back with
<pschulz01> some more support. Since then, I have continued my involvement with
<pschulz01> Ubuntu-Au, and have contributed to the translation and bug fixing
<pschulz01> efforts (patches) for edgy, as well as well as keeping an eye on some
<pschulz01> things like the 'Ubuntu Books' Wiki page.
<pschulz01> Member of Ubuntu-Au, BugSquad and English Translation teams
<pschulz01> Do I have any supported still here? (Just past midnight local time.)
<elkbuntu> of course you do :)
<elkbuntu> I cant speak highly enough of paul, he's an active and motivating member of ubuntu-au
<bimberi> pschulz01 is an AustralianTeam stalwart and the initiator/carrier-through-er of many of its best initiatives - two being hassling local notebook suppliers to ship Ubuntu and getting computer shops to distribute Ubuntu CDs. With Paul it's not just "we should do this", it's "here's how I did it - and how you can too".
<yama> I'm not a member (yet), but I've found pschulz01 to be quite helpful on IRC
<elmo> pschulz01: ISTRecognise your name - have you applied before?
<gnomefreak> elmo: he did in may and he was told to come back
<elkbuntu> most of the cheersquad has gone to sleep i believe, but there were many other people who wanted to be here for paul.
<siccness> :)
<pschulz01> elmo: wiki: MeetingLogs/CC 2006-05-30
<elmo> I can believe anyone fell asleep during a CC meeting?  it's so dynamic and fast paced
<jsgotangco> well its the unholy hour for people in +1-
<jsgotangco> +10
<elkbuntu> it is 00:41 here
<elmo> jsgotangco: yeah, I was being sarcastic, don't mind me
<pschulz01> I plan to continue my work with the Ubuntu-AU team.. Australia needs an alternative. I'm continutally amazed at the results that other teams are getting.. (Belgium, Pakistan for example :-)
<elkbuntu> i believe paul has also done alot of work gettting ubuntu into his local community, especially with software freedom day last month
<Hobbsee> elmo: *g*.  Someone should write a spec on it active participation in meetings by the respective quorums :P
<pschulz01> Any questions?
<elmo> any bugswaud people able to vouch for pschulz01?
<elmo> squad too
<gnomefreak> he has done alot of triaging since may/juneish
<gnomefreak> im happy with the work he has done :)
<elmo> ok, well, I'm happy based on vouching from team-au and the bugsqaud team and the fact that he had the persistence to come back ;-
<elmo> )
<Kamion> I'm fine with pschulz01 for the -au-based advocacy if nothing else
<elkbuntu> yeah.. persistant.. he's definatly that :)
<elmo> jono: any comments?
<Kamion> can I fill in my comments on the other two applicants afterwards? I *have* to get to the post office before closing time and there are a number of things I need to do there
<jono> sounds good to me :)
<jono> I have good things about pschulz01
<elmo> Kamion: sure
<looksaus> yama, your turn :)
<jono> also we need to start the loco meet soon
<Hobbsee> Kamion: bang down the door after hours instead :P
<elmo> jono: define soon?
<elmo> pschulz01: ok, you've got +2, once you get +1 from sabdfl or mako later, it'll become official
<yama> thanks looksaus 
<jono> well its due to start in 8mins
<elkbuntu> jono, yes.. we do.. in 8 minutes according to my time :-/
* pschulz01 says goodnight!
<jono> night pschulz01 :)
<siccness> Night mate!
<elkbuntu> night paul :)
<yama> cya paul
<looksaus> yama, ?
<jono> should we defer the remaining members till the next meet or just overrun?
<jono> I understand people have stuck around for these members
<yama> I'd like to have a go, if possible
<jono> ok
<yama> thanks
<yama> Firstly, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SridharDhanapalan
<yama> and https://launchpad.net/people/lordyama
<gnomefreak> jono: weve overrun an hour already and we have another meeting in like 6 minutes :)
<jono> gnomefreak, I know :)
<yama> (Sorry if I sound like I'm rushing. I've stayed up for this. It's almost 1am here in Sydney)
<jono> we could always start the loco meeting in another chan
<elkbuntu> Yama's active in the ubuntu-au community
* Hobbsee has even met yama :P
<bimberi> Huge \o/ from me for yama's efforts to coordinate "Queen's English" (ie. en-GB derived) translation. en-GB is >95% complete for Dapper and would be nowhere near that without his efforts to gather resources and bring the different translation groups together. It has been a determined effort over a number of months and achieved with a minimum of angst amongst some very pedantic people. A sustained and significant contribution (imo 
<bimberi> :-) ).
<elkbuntu> I can assure the CC that TheMuso intended to support him, but it seems that we lost him
<elkbuntu> <TheMuso> Ok. I have a statement about Yama ready. :) <-- i never saw the statement though
<Hobbsee> TheMuso went to bed hours ago
<elkbuntu> Hobbsee, i figured so
<yama> yes, he couldn't stay up
<yama> I'm an active member of ubuntu-au.
<yama> I spend most of my time doing translations for en_GB, because it forms the root of many derivatives like en_AU, en_NZ and so on
<elmo> erm, stupid question, but what do translations for en_GB involve?
<elmo> changing color to colour?
<Hobbsee> elmo: i believe so
<yama> much more than that, actually
<yama> there are more subtle things like punctuation differences
<gnomefreak> lol
<yama> and we needed to settle on some different terminologies, which has required co-ordination with upstream en_GB groups
<bimberi> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation
<yama> I wrote https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EnglishTranslation to guide our efforts
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: LoCo | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 24 Oct 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<bimberi> :)
<yama> yep, thanks bimberi :)
<yama> I have turned the en_GB group into an International English one
<yama> it is mostly en_GB, but we take derivatives into consideration when picking words/terms to use
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: LoCo | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu
<yama> there is a lot of work 'herding cats', so to speak
<jono> ok
<jono> any other comments from people?
<elmo> looks ok to me
<jono> fine to me
<jono> Kamion, and sabdfl_afk are waiting till later right?
<elmo> tho, and no disrespect intended, I'm surprised people find translating to en_GB... worth the effort it must involved?
<elmo> s/d?/?/
<yama> language is an important part of culture
<elmo> esp. since AFAIK rosetta can't do "this string doesn't need translated"
<elmo> jono: right
<jono> ok one more to do right?
<elmo> so shall we move on, and defer the remaining person till next week?  the
<looksaus> me...
<looksaus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkVanDenBorre
<elmo> so shall we move on, and defer the remaining person till next meeting - they only applied today anyway
<yama> elmo: we have a wonderful greasemonkey script to help us
<jono> right
<jono> thanks folks :)
<Hobbsee> impressive.  another 3 hour meeting.
<elmo> looksaus: would you mind waiting?  sorry, it's just been a very long meeting
<looksaus> sure...
<looksaus> or should I paste here for the logs
<looksaus> ?
<yama> thanks for your time, everyone
<jono> looksaus, could you make a wiki page
<jono> we need to start the loco meeting really
<looksaus> I already did, just pasted it
<jono> ahhh thats cool then :)
<looksaus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MarkVanDenBorre
<nixternal> i think the CC needs to take the first 5 applicants at each meeting
<jono> nixternal, agreed, these meetings are too long
<jono> right LoCo meeting
<nixternal> they are crazy...your butt goes numb waiting :)
<jono> who is here for the loco meeting?
<looksaus> me...
<elkbuntu> me
<looksaus> :)
<technolalia> and me
<craigaa> me
<nixternal> i guess i am now that i am awake
* JanC is
<Kuyaedz> me
<MagicFab> me
<thoreauputic> bimberi has suggested that applicants and speakers should go in time-zone order - seems a good idea to me
<Ekushey> me too
<nixternal> jeesh
<jono> the LoCo army steps forth :)
<nixternal> no doubt
<craigaa> looks like a good turnout
<bimberi> yes, i've emailed the CC list
<Ekushey> :)
* MagicFab for Ubuntu-QC and Ubuntu-CO
<nixternal> seems teh chicago guys are sleeping off last nights big win on monday night football still
<nixternal> that or they have a life and are at work right now
<Kuyaedz> nixternal: there is life outside ubuntu? ;)
<nixternal> so i have heard
<jono> ok see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
<jono> thats our agenda
<jono> first is docs
<nixternal> wo0t..
<jono> I will explain my thoughts on this
<nixternal> jono: if you need doc help, im here for ya
<jono> nixternal, :)
<nixternal> since i do edubuntu, kubuntu, ubuntu, ichthux, and kde docs, i can fit ya in
* sivang is here
<jono> as many of you have seen, I have revamped the LoCo pages a bit, and produced the FAQ updated the HOWTO and other things
* jsgotangco is here
<sivang> hi jono 
<jono> I think we need to focus the LoCo teams to get lots more written
<jono> hey siccness 
<jono> oops
<jono> hey sivang 
<jono> :)
<sivang> heh
<jono> I think we need all aspects of running a team documented where possible
<nixternal> jsgotangco: missed a hell of a bears game last night :)
<jono> so, I was thinking we should have a LoCo Doc Day
<nixternal> good idea
<siccness> hmm?
<jono> pick a day and everyone write a bunch of docs
* rejden back
<technolalia> what docs do the loco teams need?
<Belutz> I'm back
<looksaus> technolalia, how do I organise a computer fair booth
<jono> technolalia, how to run a team, common questions, dealing with problems, leadership issues, loco structure etc
<jono> the docs need to be best practice
<looksaus> could be a nice subject
<jono> looksaus, exactly
<jono> to best manage this I was gonna propose a call for ideas and we can go from there
<jono> today I just wanted to mainly set a date
<rejden> would be good, if we can follow some template
<nixternal> if anyone is interested http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/styleguide/en/index.html there is the ubuntu documentation styling guide...a little outdated, but has some good information in it, to help keep consistancy
<lophyte> ooo, loco meeting started
<lophyte> heya all :)
<jono> I was thinking of Fri 27th
<looksaus> lophyte, yes, you just missed pschulz01
<jono> so is the 27th oct good for you folks?
<MagicFab> jono: great work on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved
<elkbuntu> not for me personally
<jono> MagicFab, thanks :)
<lophyte> works for me, jono
<JanC> jono: I think a 1 day event will never fit everybody ?
<Kuyaedz> no objections here
<Belutz> sorry, what's on 27th oct ?
<MagicFab> jono, may I suggest new Loco teams should be presented here before going to the CC ?
<jono> MagicFab, we will discuss that in a sec
<jono> Belutz, loco docs day
<elkbuntu> MagicFab, how about you wait
<nixternal> 27th == LoCo Doc Day, 28th == Ubuntu Chicago Conference, 29th == CoDLUG Conference....all of which i am documenting....that will be one heck of a weekend ;) <-- winky
<jono> ok how about Tues 31st?
<MagicFab> ok
<nixternal> ooh, the 31st sounds swell
<jono> I think it would be good to get elkbuntu there
<Belutz> jono, ah i see
<lophyte> 31st works too.
<jono> wickeeed :)
<jono> ok I will mail loco-contacts about this later
<rejden> sorry, 28 - 31 days off
<elkbuntu> jono, you're picking bad dates for me :(
<jono> elkbuntu, oh really?
<jono> bugger
<jono> elkbuntu, when are goo ddates?
<jono> elkbuntu, when are good dates?
<craigaa> no date will work for everyone, we just need to find one that suits most
<lophyte> I'm flexible.. any date works for me, really
<elkbuntu> jono, the time is more to the point of my flexibility
* jenda missed the meeting...
<jono> sure, but I think elkbuntu is such a prominant member that the first event should really have a bunch of prominant members there to be a success
<jenda> are there minutes?
<jono> ok, well lets stick with the 31st for now
<jono> we can arrange more in the future
<jono> ok with everyone?
<elkbuntu> yes
<Kuyaedz> weekends work best for me for getting results, no pesky work to distract me.
<lophyte> yup
<JanC> jono: why not invite people to write such docs, and then if we have some pick a date to enhance them ?
<jono> jenda, CC meeting?
<Kuyaedz> yes
<technolalia> 31st is okay for me
<craigaa> works for me
<jenda> jono: both :)
<jenda> jono: But I meant the LoCo.
<jono> JanC,  I think we need a data to encourage people to begin writing docs, but I see your point :)
<jono> jenda, we just started this meeting
<jenda> ah ok :)
<jenda> In that case, jono, I will miss it :-D
<jono> another point to discuss, not on the agenda, are regular meetings
<jono> I am thinking we should back this slot every two weeks
<lophyte> agreed
<jono> but adjust the time of the meeting to hit the right timezones
<jenda> agreed.
<lophyte> every two weeks is good
<elkbuntu> jono, i think it also needs to be before the CC, not after it :)
<lophyte> haha
<craigaa> lol
<jono> elkbuntu, hehe yeag
<jono> yeah
<jenda> (It'll be hard to find timezones for a group that is by definition evenly spread around the world.
<jenda> )
<elkbuntu> jenda, we decided in first meeting to alternate focus
<jono> jenda, sure, so I was thinking of very early GMT and late GMT
<Kuyaedz> two weeks is fine, just be sure to update us on the mailing list on the times
<jono> that should be convenient for *most*
<Belutz> for the timezones, why don't just rotate it?
<jono> Kuyaedz, sure
<craigaa> yes
<nixternal> i am awake all hours of the day...i goto bed when the UTC strikes work time, and I wake up when the UTC get off of work :)
<jenda> jono: yes, that seems to have proven best for other meetings too.
<craigaa> I would then be able to make one meeting every four weeks
<jono> yeah
<craigaa> if we alternate timeframes
<jono> so we can flick between the two times and everyone gets a meeting a month
<rejden> in favor for rotating timezones
<jono> I, get late nights and early mornings :P
<lophyte> I think that works best
<jenda> Is there a meeting agenda somewhere? (Sorry for ignorance)
<elkbuntu> that was the plan. then you went on holidays :)
<looksaus> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
<jono> jenda, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamMeeting
<jono> looksaus, beat me to it :P
* elkbuntu mutters something about lucky. ...
<jono> elkbuntu, eh?
<jenda> thx
<elkbuntu> jono, your frolic in florida
<jono> hehe
<elkbuntu> aaanyway
<jono> ok, so thats cool we have a docs day sorted and regular meetings
<jono> any other comments or views?
<Kuyaedz> making better time than the CC meeting ;)
<jenda> hehe
<craigaa> :-)
<jono> yes, I am keen to keep everything on track and zip through stuff where needed
<jenda> This time is perfect for me, except there happens to be a conference today I want to attend.
<jono> ok lets talk edgy CDs
<jono> let me fill you in with the Canonical situation
<elkbuntu> jenda, you're excused so long as you pass out ubuntu cds :)
<rejden> so what is the proposal?
<jenda> elkbuntu: indeed :) Fortunately, ondrej has just joined for the Czech team too.
<jono> *all* approved teams will get a mix of 500 Edgy CDs
<jono> that is the stock number of CDs planned to be sent out to teams
<rejden> mix, means ku and edubuntu included as well?
<Ekushey> jono: ubuntu-bd is *half* approved for now. will we get it too?
<Belutz> jono: variant and platform mix?
<jono> Ubuntu:
<jono> PC    300
<jono> AMD64 50
<jono> Kubuntu:
<jono> PC    75
<jono> AMD64 25
<jono> Edubuntu:
<jono> PC    50
<jono> Ekushey, we can discuss that later, we can arrange something I am sure :)
<looksaus> jono, and how about Dapper shipments?
<JanC> nu PowerPC ? 
<elkbuntu> no ppc?
<lophyte> Dapper is through shipit.
<jono> dapper is still done via shipit
<MagicFab> jono: won't that make several teams rush to be approved ? i see the backlog :)
<looksaus> because I got a bit confused
<ondrej> while we are here...  is somebody here who could pay for ubuntu.cz domain name?  seems mail with invoice got lost and ubuntu.cz payment is due
<looksaus> oh, k, wasn't clear to me
<Ekushey> jono: ok, thanks
<jono> more on the backlog later :P
<rejden> would be possible to get some edgy PPC as well somehow?
<rejden> like 20 or something
<jono> now this is the dilemma:
<jono> (rejden, not sure about PPC CDs btw)
<craigaa> is it possible to customise for each team?
<rejden> same question as craigaa 
<jono> we want to get details from all those teams who want CDs but we don't want stacks and stack of seperate emails
<jono> naturally though, most teams won't want to update a wiki page with their postal address
<jsgotangco> brb
<jenda> jono, understandable... but how do that?
<jono> so I have been trying to figure something out, but I think mailing in will be the only way
<jono> there seems no clear and simple solution
<jenda> jono, perhaps a private, passworded gobby session would work :)
<looksaus> jono, I'm not sure we even _want_ edgy CD's...
<Mirv> should gpg be required?
<rejden> yes, mailing seems the only way, or web formular and mailing from it
<jono> so I am gonna talk to Marilize and figure out something
<elkbuntu> jono, i'd volunteer to be victim of the emails and collate the information
<rejden> looksaus, maybe you don't need
<jono> looksaus, not all teams will want them, thats why people will request them
<Belutz> are stickers also included? :)
<Mirv> i think all the locoteams (should) have a gpg key in launchpad etc.
<jono> elkbuntu, the problem is of privacy
<jenda> Belutz: I can send you some ;)
<jono> elkbuntu, but thanks, maybe we can figure something out
<Belutz> jenda: wow, thanks :)
<jono> Mirv, thats not a bad idea - an encryped address
<technolalia> with addresses, is it a case of someone volunteering to receive cds at their home address on behalf of the loco?
<jono> technolalia, yep
<rejden> technolalia, seems so
<craigaa> yes
<elkbuntu> technolalia, very few locos have premises
<jono> thats how it normally works
<MagicFab> jono: wikipages or LP pages can be restricted in access, can't they ?
<rejden> jono, I won't make my private adress public
<jono> MagicFab, yes
<jono> tobe honest, I am thinking emails with specific headers an a mail filter are the best thing to do
<jono> dealing with GPG or locked pages is a pain in the ass
<lophyte> jono: I have a question regarding CD shipments but its not really related to the loco meeting.. can I talk to you afterward about it?
<ondrej> I have no problem exposing my work address...
<jono> lophyte, sure! :)
<MagicFab> I guess each team should have a LP /wiki page and be able to restrict its access (for priivacy), make that part of the process to be approved (if CDs requires)
<lophyte> alright
<jono> in the future I would like LP modified to handle this
<rejden> MagicFab, too complicated
<jono> this will be discussed at the UDS
<Kuyaedz> jono: mail filters probably sounds best.  easiest to sort through anyway
<craigaa> It should be possible to flag ship[it users as loco contacts
<jono> ok, well I will get onto it
<jono> so, any questions about Edgy CDs? including lophyte if you like
<looksaus> jono, sorry if I'm interrupting something else, but...
<Kuyaedz> just let us know what subject to use :)
<jono> Kuyaedz, yeah
<jono> looksaus, ...
<MagicFab> rejden, I mean, Loco contacts know *at least* how to edit /create Wiki/LP pages...
<lophyte> jono: actually, its a question about shipit 
<looksaus> the policy about edgy is that it is for people who like to be at the cutting edge, right
<looksaus> ?
<Kuyaedz> would hate to have our teams request funneled off to the spam folder
<technolalia> how are national loco teams to distribute the cds round their country?
<rejden> MagicFab, they should :)
* jenda gotta run - later
<elkbuntu> technolalia, that's for each country to figure out i guess
<jono> looksaus, edgy is not LTS, so is not supported, but includes more up to date software
<lophyte> technolalia: have chapters in localities?
<jono> dapper is still recommended for long term supported sites
<MagicFab> technolalia, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuInLibraries
<JanC> jono: "not supported" ?
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: LoCo | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team
<Belutz> technolalia, my plan for my country is to send some CD's into local LUG and Universities
<jono> JanC, no long term support afaik
<jono> will be supported for a few years but not the five years like dapper
<JanC> yes, but there is short time support, I hope :)
<looksaus> mustn't it be made very clear that we should pitch these edgy cd's to the more advanced users then
<jono> JanC, oh yes :)
<JanC> 1.5 years IIRC
<jono> technolalia, distribution of CDs is up to you guys :P
<MagicFab> jono,  hopefully the artwork makes it clear full reproduction is permitted /granted, if all proprietary software included permits to do so. 
<Mirv> looksaus: I think it should be fine for any home user, just not companies
<Kuyaedz> I don't consider Edgy for "advanced users", but it isn't LTS like Dapper
<craigaa> I see most edgy cds going to lugs
<jono> MagicFab, there is no propreiatary software in edgy
<jono> MagicFab, not sure of the art, not seen it yet
<JanC> yeah, LTS is for rusty companies with 3-year-plans and the like  :)
<looksaus> my question is this: I'm a bit reluctant to pitch edgy to non-technical end users
<lophyte> why?
<jono> looksaus, why?
<jono> thats are market
<looksaus> because of the support thing...
<jono> support thing?
<looksaus> support cycle
<lophyte> its supported for 1.5 years
<Kuyaedz> looksaus: it isn't any more advanced than dapper, just not supported as long.
<nixternal> it will still get 18 months of support
<MagicFab> jono, no frmware, no restricted-modules... no commercial repos ?
<Kuyaedz> looksaus: its still supported for 18months
<Mirv> looksaus: edgy should be even easier than dapper for the people. it's supported for 18 months like everything before dapper, and it can easily be updated to a newer distribution version
<jono> MagicFab, everything in edgy is free software
<Kuyaedz> jono: coughfirefoxcough
<jono> MagicFab, afaik it is fully redistributable
<looksaus> and also it received new features that make it a bit more...edgy
* Kuyaedz ducks & covers for the flamewar
<lophyte> firefox won't be called firefox in edgy.
<looksaus> it works like a charm here...
<nixternal> firefox is free, the icon isn't
<JanC> jono:  that's not the same  :)
<Mirv> jono: does edgy not install restricted component, what?
<lophyte> and thus is still free software
<jono> JanC, eh?
<elkbuntu> this is not a line of discussion appropriate for this meeting
<jono> yes this is all offtopic
<looksaus> but my point is that it gets messy when you still ship dapper to end users
<lophyte> agreed, elkbuntu
<Mirv> jono: it might be redistributable, but it's not free software when it comes to those ca. 5 packages in restricted
<jono> lets get back onto CD availability
<JanC> binary-only freeware is also fully redistributable
<jono> please, lets move on...
<jono> any other questions about edgy CDs?
<Belutz> jono: do you know *when* the CD's are going to be process for shipping?
<Kuyaedz> just the details. when & how do we contact you for shipping information?
<jono> one sec phone
<craigaa> has a price been set for edgy cds as yet?
<looksaus> hm, while we have a few secs...
<elkbuntu> i think any further discussion can be done on the mailing list, so it is better archived
<nixternal> middle of november was the last date i heard
<lophyte> hey nixternal, do you usually pay duties/taxes on your large CD shipments?
<nixternal> nope
<lophyte> what the heck..
<jono> ack
<jono> back
<lophyte> I got an invoice yesterday, requiring me to pay $26.50 on my shipment of 160CDs
<jono> Belutz, not sure when shipping will be
<craigaa> I have to, unfortunately
<nixternal> just received 2 big shipments for the conferences coming up...even got me a tux costume for some sucker to wear
<jono> Kuyaedz, for contacts, contact Marilize
<jono> craigaa, in terms of prices for sale, its being discussed at the moment
<craigaa> k
<Ekushey> lophyte: here in bangladesh, we need to pay good amount of tax for the cds as well
<lophyte> jono: can I get a contact for marilize from you? I need to speak with her regarding a shipment
<JanC> lophyte: I got an invoice for almost 30 EUR sales & import tax on the free powered by ubuntu stickers  :-(
<lophyte> wow :\
<jono> lophyte, best mailing the shipit info address on the shipit site - that goes to marilize I believe
<lophyte> ah, alright.
<jono> any other queries?
<jono> we could do with getting this lot into the FAQ
<elkbuntu> definately
<MagicFab> There's info about taxes/duties at "Will I have to pay taxes/duties?" -> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/faq#head-7eef2db63e0a75424cdd663ee6f7b8eedcf19607
<jono> this brings me onto another point
<jono> I would love to see the FAQ filled to the brim with details
<JanC> whether you have to pay taxes seems more like some sort of roulette to me
<jono> if you discover or learn something that is not in thwe FAQ, please add it :)
<elkbuntu> feel free to add suggestions you want us to answer
<Belutz> brb
<jono> cool
<jono> just anything you think is missing mainly
<jono> would be nice to see the FAQ grow over time :)
<elkbuntu> especially considering neither jono nor i have quite mastered mind reading :)
<jono> so, summing up edgy CDs I will speak to marilize and post to the list about everything
<craigaa> k
<jono> elkbuntu, nearly there...just getting it perfected... :P
<jono> so, final point is the approval process
<jono> in the last week I have refined this so LoCo teams need to make an approval wiki page for the CC to view
<MagicFab> jono: just before that... will labels be available/.included in those 500 CD shipments / other stuff ?
<jono> this should make approving teams easier
<jono> MagicFab, labels?
<MagicFab> jono: Ubuntu labels (like previously)
<JanC> stickers ?  :)
<elkbuntu> MagicFab, stickers?
<MagicFab> eh, yeah, stickers :D
<jono> no idea about stickers
* MagicFab spends too much time at the printers
<jono> they are treated seperately to Cds though I think
<MagicFab> ok, go
<jono> I will check into it
<jono> so, I have made https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoGettingApproved to streamline the process
<jono> if any of you want your teams approving
* MagicFab would rather get 500 stickers than 500 CDs for his team(s)
<jono> read that page and then mail me your application
<craigaa> How about someone (Jono?) being empowered to approve LoCo teams without having to get CC approval in advance?
<MagicFab> craigaa, I was thinking *we* discuss applications here before CC
<jono> craigaa, well this has been discussed, and at the UDS I am going to propose this
<jono> MagicFab, I disagree - having a discussion here *and* at the CC is too much
<jono> I am trying to reduce red tape, not add to it :P
<MagicFab> jono: at the CC would merely be you and perhaps 2 other Loco contacts (other that those applying) to vouch for them...
<jono> right..
<jono> and..
<MagicFab> particularly for the upcoming backlog I see for the next few weeks
<elkbuntu> it should more be that jono act as a filter to stop the not-quite applications before they get as far as the CC
<jono> to get rid of the backlog we need teams making applications, I will identify that applications are good, and if so put them in front of the CC
<MagicFab> elkbuntu, +1
<jono> thats what I do MagicFab :)
<jono> so the plan is to get the backlog fixed up ASAP
<MagicFab> jono, perhaps not here but in the mailing list ()which I haven't been following lately).
<jono> I also have some things to add to the approval howto after todays first shot at approvals
<jono> any questions regarding this process?
<MagicFab> I'd rather raise issues like I had with Ubuntu Pakistan before the CC (not while in it)
<jono> MagicFab, that is what the CC is for
<jono> to get people there to discuss issues
<MagicFab> perhaps just invite other loco teams contacts to comment on applications before they're on the CC
<jono> it makes no sense to discuss some issues on one day and some on another day
<elkbuntu> MagicFab, jono is quite capable of noticing glaring issues
<jono> MagicFab, also, the approval process is not say a LoCo is vetted by the LoCo community, but by the CC who represent the community
<ondrej> only shame is that biggest IT fair in CZ was last week :-(
<jono> if we open up every application or decision to everyone in the community we would get nowhere quickly
<MagicFab> elkbuntu, I trust that. 
<jono> I want to streamline this so people can do cool Loco stuff and not get bogged down in approval processes
<nixternal> i want to do cool LoCo stuff
<jono> :)
<MagicFab> jono, asking for comments doesn't change your final decision. 
<jono> MagicFab, I know, but it takes my time
<jono> and my time is limited
<nixternal> in less than 2 weeks, if you are in chicago, we will have our big conference..actually found out a couple companies might be interested in sponsoring the event...one is some system security company
<jono> I am responsible for all community teams and I want to get the most out of my time without getting bogged down in red tape
<nixternal> which reminds me..i have a conference call soon
<MagicFab> jono, precisely, not *your* time, but time among loco contacts that may want to discuss a new team's application. 
<Kuyaedz> I think the point is that if we well document the steps and better prepare the teams before submission the whole process will be much quicker for everyone involved.
<jono> well that is what the CC is for
<jono> if you have concerns, use the CC meeting
<elkbuntu> MagicFab, what you're asking is for 2 layers of peer scrutiny. that will only worsen the process
<elkbuntu> MagicFab, we're trying to lessen the amount of waiting and retrying
<MagicFab> jono, I was commenting on that part opf the process after seing how I did that today and time was missing for other things
<JanC> well, teams who want to get approved can ask approved teams to review their application informally...
<MagicFab> elkbuntu, what you are asking is for only one person deciding. How is that better ? Some memberships wait for *months* and come back several times.
<jono> MagicFab, two layers of commenting are not productive, and we provide a place for comments the CC meeting
<elkbuntu> Some memberships wait for *months* and come back several times. <-- thats what we're trying to *filter*
<jono> MagicFab, how does one person decide? the CC decide
<MagicFab> JanC, that's an idea. Perhaps mention that in the process.
<jono> MagicFab, the problem with two layers of comment is that the first layer of comment needs scheduling, logging, reading, and then some people in the second comment phase will want first phase commentators there
<jono> its waaay too muchc complexity
<jono> right now, teams submit for approval and the CC is there to seek comments
<jono> if the CC meetings are too long, we fix the meetings
<MagicFab> jono, I think JanC's idea is better. Just suggest to applicants that they see /ask for input from other teams 
<MagicFab> before they submit.
<jono> I disagree
<MagicFab> jono: are applications posted to the mailing list before the CC ?
<looksaus> why not submit to the mailing list first, then schedule for CC
<looksaus> ?
<jono> look, we provide a forum for comment, the CC meeting - if people have concerns or issues prior to that, they should mail the CC
<jono> I think it would be worthwhile to mention the approval on the list
<jono> but the place for concerns and discussion is the CC meeting
<craigaa> Perhaps existing LoCo contacts can assist new teams in preparing their applications before CC approval. Perhaps this will streamline the approvals.
<jono> so the mailing list can tell people that an approval is happening and get to the meeting
<jono> I am happy to make approvals better scheduled, just to not have two seperate comment periods
<JanC> jono: with informal reviews by peers I mean that people can get help with writing their approval request pages
<Kuyaedz> craigaa: I figure that is part of what we need to do with the LoCo Docs.  Put together steps, list resources, etc.
<jono> JanC, sure, and thats what we want to encourage :)
<MagicFab> JanC: +1
<jono> so I suggest this process:
<craigaa> Kuyaedz plus some basic hands on assistance
<jono>  * a team begins writing their approval application, seeks help fro the community if needed
<looksaus> jono, maybe just put in a minimum of x days before the CC meeting?
<looksaus> oops, sorry
<jono>  * I look ever it to ensure that the application has all the needed bits and then announce it is going for approval at the next CC meeting
<jono>  * people then go to the CC meeting to offer comments if needed
<MagicFab> looksaus, usually anything discusses in the agenda should be there at least a few days before
<jono> I think that hits all the areas :)
<jono> brb
<MagicFab> jono: announcing would in the mailing list, the CC agenda and..
<MagicFab> ?
<elkbuntu> MagicFab, not to mention, when locos are up for approval they appear on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda so if you are concerned you can keep an eye here
<elkbuntu> MagicFab, or, you could join #ubuntu-locoteams and contribute there
<jono> announcing would be on loco-contacts - I would announce that a loco is submitting for approval and list the CC when it will happen
<MagicFab> elkbuntu, I do. The problem is the loco teams's coevrage area people.
<elkbuntu> MagicFab, i do not see you in the channel
<jono> there has been little objection other than MagicFab so I am going to propose the process I mentioned earlier
<looksaus> good idea
<jono> this way the community know of up coming approvals and can offer comment
<MagicFab> jono, not objecting. Actually ++ for mention on the mailing list before the CC.
<jono> good job
<jono> all sorted then :)
<jono> I will modify the docs to reflect this
<elkbuntu> that would mean...
* elkbuntu waits the magic words that translate to 'bed time'
<MagicFab> elkbuntu, I do check the CC agenda - not often on #u-locoteams
<jono> so, we are largely done, any other issues/
<looksaus> jono, do you still have time for this other issue?
<jono> looksaus, shoot
<jono> I have to go in five mins
<looksaus> sorry, it's the same thing from before: marketing edgy versus dapper, and towards whom?
<jono> looksaus, ahhh ok, think of it in terms of support
<looksaus> could you point me to canonical policy on that?
<ondrej> jono: domain ubuntu.cz was not payed for and is about to leave DNS system :-( (sent emails to hostmaster@c.c, webmasters@c.c), but I need a promise that this will be looked at
<jono> dapper provides a long support cycle and some companies care about that
<jono> ondrej, mail smurf 
<ondrej> jono: email address?
<jono> ondrej, did Canonical buy that for you?
<ondrej> jono: I transfered domain to Canonical last year due trademarks
<jono> looksaus, so recommend dapper to those companies who want an established version of ubuntu that has been released for six months - for other people who are happy to have a newer release, recommend edgy
<jono> ondrej, right, let me get his email address and /msg you with it
<jono> ondrej, got it?
<ondrej> jono: yep, thanks
<craigaa> I've got to go people. Thanks for the meeting. See you next time.
<jono> ok any other last minute issues?
<jono> I need to run
<jono> thanks craigaa 
<looksaus> sorry for having kept you busy
<Kuyaedz> I'm taken care of
<elkbuntu> any other issues can go to the mailing list for consideration next meeting
<jono> can someone ensure the log is online?
<jono> yep
<craigaa> ciao
<jono> thanks folks! :)
<elkbuntu> thanks jono :)
<Kuyaedz> thanks. ttyl
<Belutz> thanks jono :)
<JanC> the log is always on-line  :)
<jono> :)
<looksaus> hm, guess the meeting is officially closed, so...
<jono> later all!!
<looksaus> I must say I'm a bit confused about shipit still sending out dapper, but us being supposed to pitch edgy to end users...
<lophyte> they're shipping dapper because its LTS, edgy isn't
<looksaus> I can see how there is added value in that for a whole lot of potential users...
<looksaus> when I was manning this computer fair last Sunday
<looksaus> (see http://map.ubuntu-be.org/leuven20061015  for pics)
<MagicFab> looksaus, imagine the older U. were still available at shipit... I don't see a problem explaining that.
<looksaus> there were several clearly _very_ untechnical people who had installed Ubuntu
<looksaus> and were using it happily
<looksaus> best example, a 76 year old man
<looksaus> I'm a bit scared of pitching edgy to someone like him
<looksaus> because of these few things that might be less polished than dapper
<looksaus> with the introduction of all kinds of new things
<nixternal> looksaus: believe it or not, some of my best "switchers" are 60 and over.  we just did an install fest, and at 32 i was the youngest, like  could have been everyones grand child
<lophyte> it won't be less polished, though
<looksaus> or am I being too paranoid here?
<nixternal> here in the US, it seems it is easier to get an elder to switch then a hardcore computer user, ie you case modders and gamers
<lophyte> edgy is just as stable as dapper, its just not LTS.
<nixternal> plus, people who keep a workstation/desktop environment for more than 18 months w/o something new are windows users ;)
<looksaus> lophyte, I seem to remember sabdfl saying something like "will be a release for experimenters" about Edgy in the beginning of its dev cycle
<nixternal> well, edgy is not an experiment...edgy is the foundation for future releases
<Jsgmob> Aye
<looksaus> ok...
<lophyte> indeed, nixternal
<nixternal> sabdfl said take risks, as the time was right
<rexbron> The idea with edgy was that it would use more bleeding edge software
<JanC> some things might be less stable, but other things are more stable in edgy
<looksaus> oh, by the way, does someone know when the next Community Council is scheduled?
<rexbron> is you need absolute stability go with a LTS
<lophyte> two weeks from today
<rexbron> *if
<rexbron> hey lophyte
<Jsgmob> I thought this was loco meet?
<nixternal> ok, this is OT
<lophyte> hey rexbron
<lophyte> this WAS loco
<JanC> Jsgmob: loco meet is over
<looksaus> Jsgmob, it is finished
<lophyte> cc was before it
<Jsgmob> Doh
<rexbron> !topic
* Jsgmob is jsgotangco on phone
<JanC> mobile?
<rexbron> lophyte: did Ubuntu Canada get official status?
<Jsgmob> Yeah
<lophyte> nope.. Corey couldn't make it to the CC meeting.
<rexbron> *sigh
<rexbron> darn
<lophyte> he'll get official status before Edgy is shipped, I'm sure
<rexbron> that would have been nice
<Kamion> CC> for the record, I'm fine with yama for membership
<lophyte> Edgy won't be shipped until mid-November
<lophyte> according to jono
<rexbron> Did the release date change offically?
<lophyte> no
<rexbron> AFAIK, it is suposed to launch the 24
<lophyte> ship dates and release dates are two different things :P
<rexbron> lophyte: explain?
<Seveas> (looksaus, did you make it?)
<looksaus> yes, the Belgian team made it without problems
<lophyte> the release date is "hey, we're done developing, here's the finished product"
<looksaus> but my personal application was moved to next meeting due to a lack of time
<lophyte> ship date is "give us a few weeks for the manufacturer to produce the CDs"
<looksaus> at least, that's how I understand it
<rexbron> but ship it will not be makeing edgy
<rexbron> making
<lophyte> no, it won't
<lophyte> but they still have to produce them 
<lophyte> for loco teams
<rexbron> ?
<Seveas> looksaus, ok, next time I'll be there
<rexbron> as promo
<rexbron> I see what you mean now
<looksaus> Seveas, thx
<lophyte> Edgy CDs will be shipping to loco teams in mid-November, according to jono
<lophyte> but the release date is the 26th of October, I think
<JanC> IIRC edgy CDs would be available for people who want to pay for them too?
<lophyte> that's the rumour
<jsgotangco> We're currently selling dvds in amazon
<JanC> well, only to the US AFAIK
<jsgotangco> Well ther are some enterprising folks in .de doing that as well but not with official packaging
<mitsuhiko> hoi
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 23:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 26 Oct 07:00 UTC: Ubuntu Development Team | 07 Nov 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<lguerra> @schedule bogota
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 14:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 26 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 07 Nov 15:00: Technical Board
<MagicFab> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-18
<lguerra> @schedule bogota
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Bogota: 18 Oct 07:00: Edubuntu | 19 Oct 18:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 14:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 26 Oct 02:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 07 Nov 15:00: Technical Board
<GNAM> @schedule ROME
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 21:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 07 Nov 21:00: Technical Board
<stgraber> @schedule Zurich
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Zurich: 18 Oct 14:00: Edubuntu | 20 Oct 01:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 23 Oct 21:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 26 Oct 09:00: Ubuntu Development Team | 07 Nov 21:00: Technical Board
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Oct 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<pips1> hey flint
<flint> yo
<pips1> flint: will you vote for me?
<flint> absoultely...
<pips1> I'm applying to become an official edubuntu member
<pips1> :)
<pips1> how is it going anyway?
<flint> Working on my new house and Lab facilities in Barre Vermont.  It is coming along...
<flint> What has happened around here lately?
<pips1> well, we are in the midst of the general pre-release rush madness... testing edgy...
<RichEd> @schedule johannesburg
<jsgotangco> okayyy just sending a reply...
<Seveas> RichEd, bot server is down
<RichEd> thanks seveas ... I'll keep a local log
<flint> @schedule johannesburg
<flint> RichEd, Top of the morning...
<cbx33> can you forward the log to me when done RichEd 
<RichEd> sure cbx33 
<RichEd> just calling the last of the troops from #edubuntu
<pips1> here, sir!
<RichEd> ogra: will you kick off with technical ?
<ogra> well, not much to say ...
<ogra> PLEASE TEST THE RC ISOS !!
<RichEd> grrretings uberluitenant schroder
<highvoltage> hi all!
<rodarvus> :)
<pips1> hehe
<ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/Testing/Current has a testing matrix and all infos you need !
<ogra> thats it with tech :)
<RichEd> well I'll add in some tech from my side then ...
<pips1> ogra: how many edubuntu bugs are on your platter currently?
<rodarvus> <ogra> "ok, meeting is adjourned"
<flint> ogra, Oliver, that is damned efficient...
<RichEd> As we wind up Edgy ... we start all over again with Edgy+1 ...
<ogra> hesy flint 
<ogra> *hey too
<ogra> btw, is the fill EC here ?
<flint> ogra, at your service my friend.
<ogra> *full
<RichEd> I've put a call out in the edubuntu-devel and edubuntu-users mail to start suggesting features
<highvoltage> ogra: I think LaserJock is asleep
<cbx33> yup I think he is
<ogra> gah 
<RichEd> We'll need to collect a wish list from the wider audience, and then work through them here and in #edubuntu to make a short list for discussion at UDS
<ogra> he said he'd be here
<highvoltage> (well, he's not on IRC, so he must be ;) )
<rodarvus> he said he would come to the EC meeting this week
<RichEd> If anyone here is not on one of those lists, please ping me and I will send you the emails.
<ogra> rodarvus, right
<ogra> RichEd, i wont put up my specs before release i guess ...
<pips1> ogra: ?
<ogra> pips1, none ? 
<ogra> at least Rc ones
<RichEd> No problem ogra ... this is for loose debate about what people would like to see in an ideal world. I expect people will email ideas, and we will then tighten up in to launchpad features.
<sbalneav> Morning
<RichEd> hello sbalneav 
<highvoltage> hi sbalneav 
<flint> sbalneav, good morning from Vermont USA
<sbalneav> Morning flint!
<pips1> ogra: I can confirm https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+bug/66726
<RichEd> We must allow all people to offer comments and then we will consolidate into a realistic list.
<flint> pips1, I believe the colors in http://librarian.launchpad.net/4888746/IMG_1978.JPG are perfect for the Halloween release.... :^) 
<highvoltage> RichEd: how does that work? should people send you a list or is there a wiki page?
<pips1> flint: hehe
<RichEd> We're just going with mail lists for say a week, and then we can start formally herding the cats.
<highvoltage> ok
<ogra> pips1, whats wrong with it ? its modern art :P
<RichEd> Not all users will be confortabke with wiki editing ... we may lose comments due to techno or fear of techno hurdles
<RichEd> *comfortable
<ogra> pips1, a fix is underway for usplash ... i'm just waiting for the final ubuntu theme stuff
<pips1> ogra: ic
<RichEd> The same thing with launchpad ... not every education person will be happy logging a feature request, and we also don't want duplicates.
<ogra> its using 16colors ... and seems not to like cbx33's 256 color pics :)
<pips1> RichEd: what you are saying makes sense to me
<RichEd> An area of definate need is to look at "how do we extend the current Edubuntu with a good Primary School fit to Secondary and Tertiary/University". That's a good example for a debate.
<flint> RichEd, your testers and advance folks are all basically uber-geeks (or uber-geeks in training) they should know how to screw up a wiki...
* ogra doubts every user tested out the capabilities we already have for that
<highvoltage> ogra: I looked at the current edubuntu firefox homepage again, does it need any updating besides the version number?
<RichEd> It's not really just a feature request, it's applications as well, it may bring in LaserJocks dynamic menus, it may bring in artwork choices etc.
<highvoltage> ogra: a link to schooltool would still be nice if schooltool is installed, but I think that might be a bit complicated?
<ogra> we already have different themes for the different age groups ... but i doubt any admin ever runs sudo dpkg-reconfigure edubuntu-artwork to set it
<ogra> LaserJocks dynamic menus were part of that, yes
<ogra> but also the universe-education metapackages we planned
<RichEd> So maybe the answer is a GUI to manage ? that sort of debate is good ... it will at least bring the options into people's minds
<ogra> well, we have a gui
<RichEd> to swop themes ?
<flint> ogra, I must be getting old...running that command does not seem unreasonable to me..
<ogra> alacarete just needs a plugin or something to manage the grouped menus
<ogra> i know LaserJock and Amaranth discussed that very extensive aslready
<ogra> *alacarte
<ogra> RichEd, oh, to swop themes ... well
<RichEd> I didn't mean for us to debate the features now ... just to raise the request for suggestions. When testing is done, we can have a long meeting with sidebar discussions on specific topics.
<ogra> currentlyx thats dont in the edubuntu-artwork package 
<ogra> i'd rather have an option during install to preselect the right setup
<ogra> but our menu iws full 
<ogra> *is
<RichEd> to paly devils advocate, there may be schols where they teach at both levels and want to swop dynamically
<RichEd> *play
<ogra> right, thats not implemented yet and must be done on another level
* pips1 wonders if we are following any meeting agenda today
<RichEd> But I know now is testing time ... so my comments are just a heads up. 
<pips1> :)
<flint> RichEd, that is a version of the GIN game... where we needed to swap languages dynamically...
<ogra> the theme selection from edubuntu-artwork isnt implemented as i want it due toi the space issue with the menu
<RichEd> Still on tech pips1 
<ogra> these are two different things
<flint> ogra, the concept of dynamic switching of art, level and language is what I mean...
<flint> ogra, i don't know maybe more stuff needs to a dynamic capbility just a thought.
<RichEd> I hope as a first step, people will describe behaviour they would like to see. We then would look at how best to implement it. Some of the requests may group into the same technical solution.
* pips1 thinks that there is no hope for following any sort of sane meeting agenda with flint in the room
<pips1> :)
<ogra> flint, yes, but one is the system default (which i'd like to be choosen on the installer level) and one is user specific 
<flint> pips1, no doubt
<ogra> the latter should be driven by some kjind of gnome desktop profile or so
<RichEd> So I am done with tech from my side ... when testing is done next week ... we can dig into the next features topic. In the meanwhile, mail suggestions to the list.
<flint> ogra, this is not an easy or quick fix or concept.
<ogra> flint, exactly
<ogra> thats something we should spec in MV
<flint> ogra, I fully intend to have my lab online and testing.  This will take work.  It is located in an old horse stall.
* ogra puts it on his whiteboard 
* highvoltage wants one too
<ogra> highvoltage, ikea 3.50
<RichEd> Note that some of the requests we get may end up being things to be addressed at an Ubuntu level. In that case we are just a channel from the Education audience to our upstream
<flint> highvoltage, be careful for what you wish for Jonathan...
<pips1> highvoltage: what? a whiteboard or a horse stall?
<ogra> haha
<flint> hehe
<highvoltage> pips1: lol, a whiteboard.
<ogra> RichEd, that totally depends ..
<flint> highvoltage, quit stalling...
<highvoltage> pips1: I have one, but it's full and I can't take anything off, so I need a new one
<ogra> i think there are many many areas where we cant exactly split
<flint> ogra, we all need to test before we can pester you in any meaningful way, this i fully intend to do.
<RichEd> No one is suggesting a split ... I think it's just language we are haggling over. That's the reason for a face to face meeting so we can without keyboards and interruptions ;)
<RichEd> So any more tech topics ?
<RichEd> TECHNICAL DOCUMENTATION -------------------------
* jsgotangco squints his eyes...split?
<pips1> jsgotangco: sssshhhhhtt :)
<RichEd> HedgeMage and Nixternal are working hard on the Handbook to get it ready as close to release date as possible.
<RichEd> We are even talking about getting it published in hard copy via lulu.com
<RichEd> That's the good news.
<flint> RichEd, where are the galleys?
<RichEd> The sad news is that HedgeMage wants to move back into more developer volueteer work ... and we will need some new blood to help out.
<RichEd> flint: I'll dig up the latest list
<flint> RichEd, sweet.
<ogra>  also i'd like to get notifications if any documentation is in a packageable state
<sbalneav> As a note, I've been working on bringing the LTSP side of the doco up to date.  I'll finish in the next few days.
<RichEd> So if anyone is keen to help out, or knows anyone who can help, please let me know.
<ogra> edubuntu-docs is still an empty package in universe
<RichEd> Let me dig up nixternal's build ... brb
<ogra> well, i doubt it can go into edgy ...
<ogra> but for edgy+1 please keep me up to date if there is docs that can be packaged ...
<flint> ogra, the problem with docs and space is you need then available on the disk in "N" number of languages eh?
<ogra> well, i'd be happy to ship at least an english version for the beginning
<ogra> currently all we have is the firefox startpage
<ogra> there are no docs
<jsgotangco> :(
<flint> ogra, what sort of space budget are you thinking about?  
<ogra> and we'll likely solve the CD space problem for edgy+1 one or the other way
<flint> ogra, I know this is an unreasonable question :^)
<ogra> so we should have plenty of space for docs in the future
<stgraber> RichEd: I told nixternal that I'm interested to help a bit with the doc, but I never worked on something like that, so it can take a while before I can work efficiently.
<RichEd> great stgraber : we are relying mainly on nixternal and Hedgemage to wrap up for Edgy ... with whatever help they can get.
<jsgotangco> hmm ive seen a lot of svn activity for edubuntu docs the past few days though
<flint> The real problem with docs is that the pictures eat a lot.  The text to pix in space is 10 or 20 to 1.
* jsgotangco checks
<RichEd> Hedgemage will then move to an "Executive Editor" role where she will give guidance, but reduce her actual work load.
<RichEd> She will not disappear, but wean herself off ... and remain available.
<ogra> well, she told me she wants to go for MOTU at some  point 
<RichEd> We hope to spread the load as well ... more people, with a co-orindanating head, rather than one workhorse witha huge load.
* highvoltage thinks an editor is a good idea
<ogra> so we'll have her for packaging and development 
<RichEd> ogra: she will do all of waht is required, until we find a replacement ... so she will do a good handover ... and remain as an emergency backstop.
<RichEd> *what
<jsgotangco> hmm
<jsgotangco> looking at the handbook in svn
<jsgotangco> its pretty nice
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Current meeting: Edubuntu | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<ogra> RichEd, well, as i understood her she wants to move over to more development as well
<jsgotangco> a wee bit empty though
<ogra> right, not ready to ship it yet
<ogra> i dont want to have half breeded documentation on the CD 
<RichEd> jsgotangco: where are you loojking ... I'm still struggling to find the link nixternal gave me the other day
<RichEd> *looking
<ogra> but i expect it to be complete enough so we can ship it in feisty
<jsgotangco> its on the docteam svn
<jsgotangco> ogra: that's not possible with its state
<pips1> oh, so that's what edgy+1 will be called
<ogra> right
<jsgotangco> i see it more viable on edgy+1
<ogra> right
<pips1> what about sbalneav's ltsp documentation though?
<highvoltage> ogra: the feisty what?
<RichEd> found the link: http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/handbook/C/
<RichEd> that's nixternals latest state of play for the docs
<ogra> highvoltage, the feisty something ... i cant leak *everything*
<pips1> the documentation will be available online, though, or not?
<ogra> ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: :-D
<jsgotangco> pips1: i think it should
<jsgotangco> unless we make the documenation readable from the cd
<jsgotangco> instead of post-install
<sbalneav> The lts.conf variables section is wrong.  What I've been currently working on is going through the list of valid lts.conf parms, and updating the docs accordingly.
* highvoltage bows to sbalneav 
<pips1> especially the ltsp.conf bits... otherwise ogra and sbalneav will get pounded by the same questions over and over
<cbx33> sorry guys, had to pop out to assist someone
<highvoltage> sbalneav: that has been much needed, the world of edubuntu thanks you
<sbalneav> NP
<jsgotangco> hmmm
* pips1 lifts his imaginary hat off to sbalneav
<jsgotangco> this thing has nice sections though
<RichEd> ogra: please check out this link: it is looking a whole lot more complete than whan I last looked on Friday.
<RichEd> http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/handbook/C/
<sbalneav> I need to head off to work in about 5 minutes.  Will my inclusion vote be put off to next week?
<flint> jsgotangco, I sort of like nixternal's toolbase... 
<jsgotangco> flint: its pretty doable in edgy+1 really
<ogra> sbalneav, inclusion vote ?
<sbalneav> Wasn't I supposed to be voted on edubuntu membership this week?
<ogra> arent you a member since weeks ?
<RichEd> stgraber: can you send me an email please so I can include you in the doc volunteer loop.
<RichEd> riched@ubuntu.com
<sbalneav> Don't think so, thought it needed a vote.
<ogra> oh, no, you arent, 
<ogra> sbalneav, we'll have the EC studff at the end of the meeting ...
* jsgotangco votes for sbalneav in advance for being so cool
<ogra> so it should be safe for you unless you sit in a traffic jam for yours :)
<ogra> *hours
<sbalneav> I'll check in when I get to work.  If not this week, then next :)
<stgraber> RichEd: You already received one about "Ubuntu and Education: Which Ubuntu variant are you using ?" a few minutes ago
<sbalneav> It's not like I'm going anywhere :)
<rodarvus> heh
<sbalneav> Anywho, expect to see me back on in 1/2 hour
<RichEd> Thanks stgraber ... too much multi-tasking to add 2 and 2 at the moment :)
<stgraber> RichEd: :)
<RichEd> So any other documentation volunteers or comments before we move to artwork ?
<RichEd> ARTWORK -------------
<RichEd> cbx33 & ogra ... artwork comments ?
<cbx33> nothing from me
<ogra> we'll need another 640x400 16 color usplash theme
<cbx33> unless someone is expecting something
<cbx33> ogra: oh really?
<RichEd> looks like ogra is 
<ogra> see bug 66726
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66726 in usplash "edubuntu artw ork has funny colors on amd64" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66726
<cbx33> hmm....ok
<ogra> seems many (or all) amd64 systems cant handle 256 colors
<ogra> so we'll need a fallback
<ogra> worst i can take the old artwork, but something new would be preferable
* highvoltage wonders why that would happen on amd64
<cbx33> ok
<jsgotangco> yeah that's pretty weird
<ogra> (thats nothing for RC, but must be fixed before tuesday next week)
<cbx33> ok
<Kamion> highvoltage: the x86emu stuff in usplash has trouble with amd64 nvidia systems, so we made it use vga16 on amd64 as a workaround
<cbx33> I have the files on my machine at home so I can do that when I get in
<ogra> Kamion, depending on nvidia
<ogra> ?
<ogra> or generally for all amd64 systems 
<highvoltage> Kamion: aah, thanks for the insight
<jsgotangco> thats interesting
* ogra tries tzo determine the amount of brokeness 
<ogra> *to
<Kamion> ogra: I think the bug only manifested on nvidia, but the fix was to switch to the bogl backend and at present that has to be a choice made at compile-time, so can't be graphics-card-specific, only architecture-specific
<RichEd> any more artwork ?
<pips1> erm, I have ati radeon 9600 and I got stung by bug 66726
<Ubugtu> Malone bug 66726 in usplash "edubuntu artw ork has funny colors on amd64" [Undecided,Unconfirmed]  http://launchpad.net/bugs/66726
<ogra> Kamion, thanks, so we'll have it on all amd64's
<Kamion> right, afaik
<ogra> pips1, we dont have a 16 color pic yet
<cbx33> but we will have
<ogra> so thats the right behavior, i'm astoniished it shows something at all ...
<pips1> sure, just wanted to point out that it happens with ati graphics card
<Kamion> pips1: yes, it will
<ogra> i'd have expacted a black screen if it cant find something for the right resolution
<pips1> ah
<ogra> *expected
<ogra> but it apparently takes the 640x480 version and tries to show it
<Kamion> ogra: I don't think usplash checks the theme's colour depth
<ogra> Kamion, no, i know, but we also dont ahve a 640x400 pic 
<ogra> and i didnt expect it to just pick 640x480 :)
* pips1 looks at the clock and notes that we are 1 h into meeting :)
<ogra> right ...
<ogra> no more artwork from my side 
<RichEd> COMMUNITY AND DOCUMENTATION AND WEB -------------
<ogra>  Memory Edubuntu, being a GNU/Linux based operating system, makes efficient use of memory. The usual formula that's used for adding memory to a thin client server is:
<ogra> 256 + (60 * users) MB
<ogra> wow thats wrong 
<ogra> (from the handbook)
<highvoltage> gees, that's very wrong :(
<highvoltage> it should be closer to 512 + (128 * users)
<ogra> it also explains PXE and etherboot very detailed ... we support both out of the box ... no explanation needed
<jsgotangco> i guess they haven't seen jim's server sizing wiki
<jsgotangco> 60MB for gnome heh
<ogra> yeah
<highvoltage> even with xfce that's too little these days
<flint> jsgotangco, icewm maybe...
<ogra> i count on sbalneav here :)
<jsgotangco> flint: heh the only place ive seem icewm used in production is with a cash register heh
<highvoltage> flint: icewm would probably be fine, but things like firefox... not
<flint> jsgotangco, I like cash!
<jsgotangco> RichEd: community side, well on my part, still doing the software thingie on top of edubuntu
<flint> highvoltage, I agree the formula is broke...
<RichEd> Thanks jsgotangco .... just waiting for the sidebar thread to die down.
<flint> think that docs need to be tested just like releases...
<cbx33> LaserJock: hey dude
<LaserJock> sorry, sorry, sorry :/
<flint> RichEd, sorry...
<RichEd> LaserJock: hi there
<pips1> ogra: where did you quote that handbook thing from? drupal site or wiki ? link?
<RichEd> no problem ... 
<ogra> LaserJock, perfectly in time ;)
<ogra> pips1, from the link RichEd gave me
<RichEd> right : COMMUNITY AND DOCUMENTATION AND WEB -------------
<RichEd> By now most you you should know that I am on a drive to find people using any Ubuntu product for Education, and bring them into our community.
<ogra> http://nixternal.ubuntu-rocks.org/handbook/C/p2-hardware.html
<pips1> ic, thanks
<jsgotangco> i cannot do much for this late in the cycle except do some stuff on the webpage since i have access to drupal but someone might be doing that already so
<ogra> right, i was asked from the DC admins that we fix the download page and add all mirrors
<ogra> we only have one link there
<jsgotangco> do we still do release notes and stuff with edubuntu being a special one? (ltsp and all)
<ogra> yes, for the final release
<jsgotangco> ok doable on my side
<ogra> for the milestones we were just covered by the general notes
<ogra> also note that we have a "prerelease of ltsp 5" now ...
<ogra> its not just muecow or the ubuntu ltsp ;)
<jsgotangco> ohhh
<jsgotangco> fuse and the works
<ogra> we're officially allowed to call it 5.0pre 
<jsgotangco> ohhh that's nice
* jsgotangco takes note
<highvoltage> ogra: is that what the debian version of the ltsp package will be called?
<ogra> feisty will have 5.0 then if we did the final merge steps
<pips1> jsgotangco: note that I'm not doing any content changes on the drupal site and I don't know anyone that would help, so any help much appreciated. Also, I can't really tell what changed on the technical side in depth, so it would be good for someone to proof read on that side...
<jsgotangco> pips1: cool let's rock it then
<ogra> highvoltage, http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/Ltsp5 its what upstream will call it 
<ogra> debian and we will just take over the name ...
<ogra> and i'll make sure the package versioning will reflect it in feisty
<highvoltage> ogra: I understand, I'm just wondering where we'll actally see 5.0pre on the edubuntu system.
<ogra> highvoltage, in the announcements and docs 
<highvoltage> ogra: gotcha
<ogra> the edgy ltsp is ltsp 5.0pre
<ogra> feisty will be ltsp 5.0
<ogra> its important to point out that we didnt do a fork but implemented the next gen ltsp ...
<LaserJock> OT: is "feisty" offical?
<ogra> guess :P
* highvoltage guesses not
* ogra wont say anything more about release names :)
<jsgotangco> we'll say "edubuntu 6.10 now has ltsp5.0pre" or something like that
<Kamion> there'll be an announcement when it's official
<pips1> ogra: highvoltage anyone else: do we need to update the website and wiki pages for the release? is there any to do list of sorts?
<Fujitsu> sabdfl mentioned it in one of his specs today.
<ogra> jsgotangco, exactly
<highvoltage> pips1: yes, the screenshots need to be updated to reflect new artwork and changes in software
<highvoltage> pips1: ESA will also need an update
<ogra> pips1, i'll try to get a list together ... we should have upgrade notes as well 
<ogra> also for the people that used ltsp 4.2 with edubuntu ..
<ogra> (i.e. see the discussion in #edubuntu)
<highvoltage> pips1: I'm busy rsyncing now, I'll take as much screenshots as possible over the weekend
<pips1> ESA ?
<highvoltage> Edubuntu School Advocacy...
<RichEd> I have nominated willvdl to be the documentation co-ordinator ... to make sure that the handbook and ESA and web etc. all tell the same story.
<highvoltage> pips1: it's called 'Using Edubuntu' on the website
<RichEd> He will not take away the work from each area, but will make sure it all fits cohesively.
<RichEd> That's not in place yet, but we need to set up a process of what needs to be checked each release.
<RichEd> Can I get back to community quickly, and then we can start wrapping ?
<pips1> ogra: regarding the ltsp 4.2 upgrade notes: it would take me a long time to compile what was said into a guide, so I'd be much better if you are someone who actually understands it, writes the upgrade notes :)
<ogra> indeed
<pips1> ack, my grammer :)
<highvoltage> pips1: I could put it into a short technical guide, but I'm a bt pressed for time at the moment to do a nice user-readable one. so if there's someone slightly technical that could read it and dress it up, that would be good.
<ogra> i didnt mean you need to write them :)
<pips1> and spelling ;-)
<highvoltage> pips1: absolutelllly
<pips1> pffft
<ogra> RichEd, s/wrapping/EC-ing/
<RichEd> ??? say what ogra ??
<pips1> ogra is saying in his very own way that we shouldn't wrap yet, but have an EC now
<pips1> :)
<ogra> right
<RichEd> I needed to just get my community stuff in the open ... let me do that with a cut & paste.
<ogra>  s/// is a code replacement command (you'll see it very often for corrections in -devel)
<RichEd> By now most you you should know that I am on a drive to find people using any Ubuntu product for Education, and bring them into our community. I've sent a mail to the edubuntu-devel list asking what Ubuntu people are using and where, and have had quite a few responses already. It is interesting to note that the first response was from a Kubuntu user.
<RichEd> Also this sort of thing:
<RichEd> News about 5000 student machines installed with dual-boot XP and Ubuntu 6.06
<RichEd> http://linuxfr.org/2006/10/16/21479.html
<RichEd> Or the google transalte version in english
<RichEd> http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Flinuxfr.org%2F2006%2F10%2F16%2F21479.html&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&safe=off&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools7
<RichEd> And we've found a really positive pocket of Ubuntu in a High School in the US, in the state of Indiana, which is one of the few States (or only State) which has an open source advocacy policy at government level.
<RichEd> So people & projects like the above may be useing a different desktop to us, but they still share many issues in common with us and can give us help from their own experiences.
<Riddell> RichEd: are you aware of the projects in the canary islands?
<RichEd> Nope Riddell send details !
<RichEd> For example, if we are looking for the requirements for Secondary schools for Edubuntu Edgy+1, we can learn a lot from people who have customised a vanilla Ubuntu install with their own selection of applications.
<jsgotangco> RichEd: have you seen that edubuntu book in indonesia
<RichEd> Which teachers are already using.
<RichEd> jsgotangco: toosa ... yep
<RichEd> So, last few lines:
<RichEd> I've created: #ubuntu-education
<flint> RichEd, Maine and New Hampshire are worth mentioning as LTSP areas of use.
<RichEd> topic: Ubuntu Education : Education Topics Across any Ubuntu Product : Edubuntu - Kubuntu - Ubuntu - Xubuntu : Ping or mail RichEd : See: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-education
<RichEd> And the mail list above ^^^
<RichEd> I'll be talking to Jono about "advertising the new list" to the locos and #kubuntu and #ubuntu peopke who may be in education
<RichEd> *people
<RichEd> And will fridge it next week.
<LaserJock> got a forum?
<RichEd> PLEASE NOTE that any Edubuntu topics should stay in #edubuntu ... we do not want to fragment the existing community.
<RichEd> Anyone who joins #ubuntu-education should also stay in #edubuntu !
<LaserJock> we (science guys) just got an "Education & Science" subforum on ubuntuforums.org. That might be useful
<RichEd> LaserJock: under way ... will bring it up nexy week.
<pips1> LaserJock: not yet, but we are planning on having forums in the new community site...
<LaserJock> k
<pips1> LaserJock: good to know
<RichEd> Excellent LaserJock ... we have a lot of resources and people whop are out there, but it is a bit difficult to find them all. A lot of what we are doing will be about a map to existing things.
<LaserJock> like there was just a thread asking about apps for high school biology
<ogra> RichEd, you already fragment the community by that step
<pips1> ogra: ?
<RichEd> ogra: explain ?
* highvoltage needs to leave in a few minutes
<ogra> well, you split up into products instead of tasks 
<flint> RichEd, I agree with ogra even ubuntu-education takes away from this effort
<ogra> ubuntu vs edubuntu 
<ogra> while i'd see edubuntu as the point where all educational stuff for *buntu would go on
<RichEd> it's not about one vs the other, it s about people who are using any ubuntu product in education ... and they will help us improve edubuntu as a niche product which is ready for education out of the box
<flint> RichEd, keep things simple the Bush administration has taught us a lot about fragmentation...
<ogra> right 
<RichEd> the trouble is that we have people who use Kubuntu in education and who go straight to #kubuntu and don't conme near our #edubuntu channel
<flint> RichEd, the idea is to start at the Edubuntu concept and move into either LTSP or mainstream *buntu.
<ogra> its no complaint, but until now people who would have searched for educational stuff in *buntu would have contacted edubuntu in some way
<ogra> i.e. ML or IRC
<RichEd> All educational roads will lead to Edubuntu as the education product.
<ogra> through that split we will probably miss stuff
<flint> RichEd, I will cheerfully tell you when Oliver is wrong.  He is right on in this case.
<RichEd> The rest of the users are simply customising a vanilla product for education needs.
<ogra> (i have ~30 IRC windows open daily and am subscribed to 60 mailing lists ... i wont monitor ubuntu-education much for tech requests for example)
<pips1> ogra: I don't quite understand why you think *you* will miss stuff? do you mean, you can only put 100% attention to one (irc) channel at the same time?
<ogra> pips1, its not about *me*
<highvoltage> pips1: depends which client you use, mine can do multi-screen :)
<flint> RichEd, Edubuntu is your brand.  Be careful you are not creating the equivalent of "New Coke" or Windows Millenium...
<RichEd> But ubuntu-education is not about tech stuff. It is about Education stuff. It is cleary promoted as "above the desktop"
<flint> RichEd, Edubuntu is not about tech stuff either it is about use of computers in education.
<ogra> but for the same reason i dont like to have pm discussions about stuff if possible i think its important that everybody sees every discussion 
<ogra> so splitting conversations over several channels with the same topic but another label might get tricky
<LaserJock> flint: I disagree
<pips1> ogra: I know you don't mean that it's all about you, of course not, but I mean you as an example (and important "hub") :)
<RichEd> flint: we are not creating a new brand or product, just a space to get people into our area
<LaserJock> flint: Edubuntu, right now, is clearly a distro product
<ogra> pips1, i mean that the discussion about ltsp4.2 upgrades might also be important for you guys ... if i had held it in pm instead of #edubuntu you guys would have missed that 
<flint> RichEd, why not have #edubunt-implementation?
<ogra> pips1, thats what i mean with missing stuff 
<LaserJock> because the issue isn't edubuntu, the issue is education
<RichEd> And a user using kubuntu in 10 schools will say ... oh that's edubuntu. not me
<jsgotangco> i dont get this channel differentiation
<flint> RichEd, or #edubuntu-for_the_teacher
<RichEd> And a user using kubuntu in 10 schools will say ... oh that's edubuntu. not me
* cbx33 doesn't get anything anymore :(
<cbx33> I have to keep running away
<jsgotangco> we dont get enough traffic in the main channel at all
<ogra> jsgotangco++
<pips1> ogra: I agree with you about keeping information in the public space as much as possible 100%, I think that pm shouldn't be used unless it makes sense to have privacy
<ogra> same for the ML
<LaserJock> the point is that Edubuntu doesn't encompass *all* of education
<RichEd> jsgotangco: I can assure you with my hand on my heart that we will bring more people than we take away/
<LaserJock> it encompasses the Edubuntu distro
<ogra> pips1, right and i think sacttering info isnt much help
<jsgotangco> RichEd: i think its easier to drive traffic to 
<flint> RichEd, I see your point, yet we embrace kubuntu... I just feel that Edubuntu should be inclusive of all variants.
<LaserJock> ogra: I think the idea is to bring no info, not scatter
<ogra> no info ?
<LaserJock> new
<jsgotangco> RichEd: i think its easier to drive traffic to #edubuntu and when we have so many people over there that devel coordination is not possible, its the core group that creates a new channel
<ogra> you mean more info =
<ogra> ?
<ogra> ah
<RichEd> flint & ogra: so what about an education department that uses Edubuntu on the classroom desktop and Ubuntu on the Staff Admin machines and Ubuntu on the edge connectors and Ubuntu on the national Server Farm. Thats's all Ubuntu in Education, but not all Edubuntu.
<flint> jsgotangco, You make a very good point here.  As a core in a subcategory forms, it can make the decision on its own.
<flint> RichEd, I firmly believe that it is inclusive and supportable in the #edubuntu forum system. eh?
<ogra> RichEd, right, but if i were the admin of that setup and would have an edu related question i'd mail edubuntu-users or go to the #edubuntu channel
<flint> Edubuntu bugs as well as all other bugs (eg support) all go to Malone anyway.
<RichEd> ogra: Even the guy in the server farm who runs pure Ubuntu on his education content web servers
<jsgotangco> and #edubuntu is a very logical place to go, same with #ubuntu and #kubuntu
<flint> (actually Oliver fixes them all himself :^)
<ogra> flint, nah, we have a bunch i havent touched :)
<flint> ogra, just kidding...
<cbx33> ogra: on that note, any I can help with?
<jsgotangco> we can just do #edubuntu-devel when the time comes that its needed and it won't be difficult for us since we're not herding everyone
<ogra> cbx33, i think LaserJock has a link to our buglist
<cbx33> ok...cool
<flint> RichEd, give our words some thought... I thank you for this time.
<ogra> jsgotangco, that was the initial plan if devel related discussions rise 
<ogra> but currently we dont even have any traffic in #edubuntu
<jsgotangco> i think its very logical
<LaserJock> #edubuntu really only makes sense for people running Edubuntu. It's confusing for somebody who is running Kubuntu or Xubuntu if they should ask questions in #edubuntu (how will they know to go there?) or #kubuntu, etc.
<ogra> at least not noticeable enough to split
<jsgotangco> ogra: yeah when its needed
<ogra> right
<highvoltage> LaserJock: well said
<cbx33> LaserJock: got that link?
<RichEd> None of this has been a trivial decision there has been a hgue amount of thought and discussion.
<LaserJock> but the idea was to not "split" anything
<RichEd> We're adding, not subtracting.
<jsgotangco> we need traffic
<ogra> we'll see how it works out ... 
<ogra> but note that its way harder to colse a channel or mailing list than opening them :)
<ogra> *close
<highvoltage> RichEd: I think the effort put into the education part of things is good. I think people will be happy with the new list and channel once they see the results.
<RichEd> ogra ... please note that we understand and respect your concerns ... we are not ignoring them, but taking them into account.
<LaserJock> cbx33: see: https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-bugs/+subscribedbugs plus the +assignedbugs and +packagebugs variants
<RichEd> I see that 80% of the new communtiy we bring in will be users who were too afraid to join or speak up in techno forum.
<ogra> RichEd, and you please note its no rant or bad criticism ... i just want to point these things out ;)
<RichEd> noted :)
<ogra> :)
* RichEd shakes hands with ogra and the absent flint
<ogra> heh
* ogra hugs RichEd 
* RichEd returns the love
<jsgotangco> i dunno lets just see how it comes out
<RichEd> okay ... I'll step down now and let ogra do the EC and wrap
<ogra> hmm, to sad sbalneav isnt here yet
<ogra> i see pips1 applied for membership :)
* pips1 feels it was good to get every one chiming in on the channels discussion :)
<ogra> and RichEd wants to be EC member :)
<pips1> yes
<RichEd> Well, can I ask any of you who are concerned about the "split" to join the mail list to see for yourself how it evolves ;) 
* highvoltage doesn't even see it as a split, it's just a next phase
<ogra> RichEd, we will
<ogra> pips1, want to do your three liner introduction ?
<pips1> oki
<ogra> (even though we all know you)
<pips1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilippSchroeder
<pips1> My day job is web developer and ICT coordinator at the university of applied sciences Zurich. I'm particularly interested in the field of usability, information architecture and interaction design.
<pips1> My contributions so far have been mostly testing the releases and I have taken on the edubuntu.org site admin responsibility from highvoltage.
<pips1> I'm planning on building a community space where educators and foss developers can interact. The planning has started quite a while ago and has been intensifying recently with the help from RichEd.
* RichEd comments
<ogra> i can just say that pips1 did and does a substantial amount of Cd tests
<ogra> a very appreciated contribution on my side ...
* pips1 holds his breath
<cbx33> pips1: has been a fantastic help to me too
<ogra> apart from that he did an impressive amount of web structuring for us
<cbx33> wish I could vote dude ;)
<RichEd> ^^ This is a user space ..,. for normal people to talk about their own personal experiences with education issues, without being concerned if the software they are using is Open Source or FOSS or (god forbid) that their school paid for a piece of code.
<LaserJock> pips1: how long have you been contributing to Edubuntu?
<ogra> i think pips1 was here from the very beginning ...
<ogra> he was at the first (and only) edubuntu conf as well
<jsgotangco> yes
<pips1> well, I have been around ever since the inception, but I have only started becoming more active very recently. my testing started with the very first release of edbuntu, though (cf ML) .)
<LaserJock> very cool
<RichEd> And finally, pips1 is ery involved in IT and education ... pedagogical & human behaviour towards technuical, not technical outwards.
<RichEd> *very
<ogra> how do you think we should improve edubuntu in the future ?
<highvoltage> I'm of course happy that pips1 can take the edubuntu website forward. I remember the huge amount of testing he did last time too.
<ogra> and what will change for you with your achieved membership status ?
<pips1> I think we can improve it by bringing it closer to what educators need... 
<pips1> finding out what they need from them...
<highvoltage> pips1: If I may ask, what attracts you to Edubuntu? Is it technology in schools that interest you, is it more the educational part, or comminuties in education? (or other:_____)
<pips1> re membership status, hmm, don't think it will change that much, really. I think it somehow changes how I feel about "belonging" to the community.
<ogra> :)
<pips1> highvoltage: all of the above? :)
<highvoltage> pips1: :)
<sbalneav> Present!
<pips1> I think what is a huge motivational factor is *collaboration*
<RichEd> final cut & paste from a philipp cv: 
<RichEd> My day job is web developer and ICT coordinator at the university of
<RichEd> applied sciences, Zurich. In my role, I attend national conferences on
<RichEd> ICT and education. 
<ogra> he just pasted that in his intro ;)
<pips1> RichEd: thanks, I put that bit onto the wiki page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PhilippSchroeder
<pips1> :)
<ogra> any questions for pips1 from anybody else ?
* highvoltage thinks pips1 have been qualifying for membership for a while already
<LaserJock> sbalneav: hola
<LaserJock> I've seen enough :-)
<ogra> me too :)
<ogra> jsgotangco, ??
<RichEd> => pips1 will be representing web and community and ICT in eduation at Mountain View
<ogra> highvoltage, ??
<jsgotangco> i have no questions for pips1 i know him well ;)
<highvoltage> ogra: no more questions from me
<ogra> then lets VOTE ! :)
<highvoltage> +1
<LaserJock> +1
<jsgotangco> ack
<ogra> based on former contributions and awesome testing help, a +1 from me
<RichEd> RichEd: +1
<ogra> welcome aboard pips1 !
<highvoltage> pips1: congrats and welcome!
<LaserJock> pips1: welcome, and I look forward to seeing you at Mountain View
* RichEd shakes the hand of our newest member
<ogra> yeah, me too
<pips1> thanks guys!!
* pips1 is very excited
<ogra> pips1, oh
<ogra> please apply for membership in the team :)
<ogra> i cant enable you without 
<pips1> huh? in LP? which team?
<ogra> https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members/
<pips1> ahh
* sbalneav waves to ogra :)
<ogra> seems RichEd is eager to vote as well ;) so lets handle him now 
<ogra> and then sbalneav :)
<pips1> oki
<ogra> i'd like to propose RichEd as a replacement for JaneW in the EC ... 
<ogra> so we have full voting power again 
<jsgotangco> did JaneW signified her intention to drop
<ogra> since Jane isnt around anymore
<jsgotangco> or are we defaulting her
<ogra> well, she's constantly absent and it doesnt seem to me hse can make any meetings
<ogra> *she
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: she did
<highvoltage> ogra: at the last meeting when she had trouble connecting she did manage to let us know that she is willing to pass the EC status on to RichEd
<ogra> i think we all know who RichEd is and what he does
<ogra> highvoltage, right
* RichEd it the one that starts fires ;)
<ogra> she mailed
<jsgotangco> well i don't think its really proper to just "pass" something
<ogra> jsgotangco, make another suggestion then 
<jsgotangco> but since we run on a majority vote, its proper to just vote for it
<highvoltage> jsgotangco: right, I phrased that incorrectly, perhaps.
<ogra> jsgotangco, we'll need a 100% vote imho
<ogra> thats why i wanted the whole EC here now
<jsgotangco> we're here let's do it :D
<LaserJock> and why I had to get up so early :-)
<ogra> ok
<ogra> +1 from me ... 
<highvoltage> From a practical side, and from RichEd proven dedication the last months, +1 from me too
<LaserJock> ditto, +1
<jsgotangco> i think its only proper and logical, and also for RichEd to do his functions +1
<ogra> great, welcome to the EC RichEd !
<cbx33> w00t
<highvoltage> w00t++
<RichEd> thank you all ... I appreciate your support
* RichEd takes a bow ... I will be your humble servant ...
<ogra> Kamion, elmo ? can some CC member please make RichEd an admin for https://launchpad.net/people/edubuntu-members/ ?
<jsgotangco> ok do the logs later
<jsgotangco> :D
<ogra> i dont have the power
* RichEd has to start a skype call to Greece ... prebooked meeting
<LaserJock> RichEd: no go fan some flames ;-)
<highvoltage> Kamion, elmo: and also remove JaneW please
<ogra> Kamion, elmo ... and make JaneW a normal member
<highvoltage> (sorry, what ogra said)
<ogra> hmm, new EC member and already absent for the vote ... tsk :)
<ogra> sbalneav, on to you ! :)
<pips1> re absent RichEd: hehe
<ogra> sbalneav, do you have a three liner perpared to introduce yourself ?
<pips1> RichEd: come back here !
<RichEd> I'm here ...
<sbalneav> Well,
<pips1> you need to vote :)
<RichEd> for sbalneav ?
<ogra> RichEd, yes, but not yet ...
<sbalneav> I'm Scott Balneaves, LTSP developer, and erstwhile Edubuntu contributor.  Major work has included LTSP, working on the edubuntu handbook, localdevices, and going for smokes with Ogra.
<RichEd> (call postponed for 20 mins)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: you don't actually smoke, do you? (not that it will affect the vote ;) )
<ogra> for the protocol: sbalneav doesnt smoke he just a nice guy ;)
<sbalneav> No, I just stand and chat with ogra.  He does all the smoking :)
<LaserJock> highvoltage: second hand smoke
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: lier, you dont smoke
<highvoltage> I wouldn't be able to do this vote if I didn't go to UDS Paris
<sbalneav> Testing, dubugging, etc.  I've done it all.
<highvoltage> I was extremely impressed with sbalneav, and it's not often that I'm really that impressed by someone.
<sbalneav> Also, convincing highvoltage to never go to subway again.
<jsgotangco> it pretty much sucks that edubuntu didn't have a group pic in UDS Paris
<ogra> we'll care to get one this time ... 
<ogra> we have a lot of pics though 
<jsgotangco> without the cool guys?
<jsgotangco> heh
<jsgotangco> j/k
<ogra> just not nicely lined up :)
<pips1> sbalneav: you are currently staying with ogra, in Germany? 
<highvoltage> I think the work that he's done is amazing, not only for Ubuntu, but everywhere. His LTSP work is amazing, and he's been filling big gaps in Edubuntu thathas bothered me personally for a while.
<ogra> pips1, nah, i'm in the US occasionally 
<pips1> ah!
<ogra> highvoltage++
<LaserJock> he also completely ruined my nice python script for edubuntu-menus :-)
<highvoltage> I'll go as far as to say that I'm excited to have sbalneav as part of the team, and that I'm honored to have him here.
<highvoltage> </cheerleadind>
<ogra> highvoltage++
<sbalneav> pips1: no, but ogra and I will be meeting pre MV for LTSP hacking with LTSP.
<jsgotangco> i'd vote for sbalneav for listening to pink floyd and being at battersea power station
<ogra> (even more ++++=
<ogra> )
<highvoltage> eek... </cheerleeding>
<highvoltage> +1 for sbalneav from me
* RichEd hands sbalneav a vote of confidence +1
<ogra> +1 from my side as well
<ogra> LaserJock, jsgotangco ?? anby questions left open from your sides ?
<jsgotangco> sbalneav: make ltsp5 rock
<jsgotangco> +1
<LaserJock> +1 for dedication to Edubuntu and the educational community, significant and sustained for sure
<ogra> welcome sbalneav !
<ogra> :)
<highvoltage> sbalneav: welcome, and thank you
<pips1> welcome!
<cbx33> damn I wish i could vote
<highvoltage> cbx33: you can still cheerleed!
<jsgotangco> go ahead for the record
<ogra> there we go, approved in LP
<highvoltage> Edubuntu Members LP page is starting to look more and more decent
<ogra> sbalneav, joy your edubuntu.org mail address :)
<ogra> highvoltage, right, we're starting to grow 
<pips1> ogra: how does the mail address work?
<highvoltage> pips1: it will forward to your e-mail address specified in launchpad
<ogra> it forwards to the one you set in LP
<pips1> cool
* highvoltage is about 30 minutes late for a meeting, got to run
<ogra> nixternal is applying for membership as well btw
<LaserJock> cya highvoltage
<ogra> but he's not here atm i think
<ogra> so lets finish off
<pips1> highvoltage: we'll need to talk about updating website todo... 
<highvoltage> ciao LaserJock and other Edubuntutites
<pips1> l8r
<ogra> anything left ? 
<ogra> going once
<jsgotangco> it works?
<highvoltage> pips1: ok, ping me a bit later
<jsgotangco> i haven't even tried it
<ogra> going twice ....
<cbx33> is nixternal around?
<ogra> adjourned :)
<ogra> thanks everybody
<RichEd> thanks all ...
<RichEd> cbx33: I'll mail logs to you
<cbx33> thanks RichEd 
<pips1> thanks for all of your support, folks!
<pips1> I feel honored
<cbx33> you deserve it pips1 
* RichEd ++
<sbalneav> :D\-<
<sbalneav> :D|-<
<sbalneav> :D/-<
* sbalneav dances.
<sbalneav> I'd like to thank the academy
<sbalneav> \o/
* RichEd starts the music
<sbalneav> Do I need to do something?
* sbalneav hands RichEd, LaserJock, highvoltage, jsgotangco, and ogra their bribe money packets.
* pips1 claps the beat
* RichEd beats the clap ;)
* cbx33 dances
* ogra quickly hides it in his pocket 
<LaserJock> sbalneav: oh, I just know I'll find some good food in Mountain View if I follow you ;-)
<jsgotangco> that's right
<jsgotangco> heh
<ogra> hmm
<ogra> who gave pips1 eternal membership ?
<LaserJock> I should start a wiki page, "Secrets to surviving a UDS" ;-)
<sbalneav> LaserJock: :)
<LaserJock> 1. If you want to eat well, follow an LTSP guy
<jsgotangco> 2. if you want to be in cool places, follow an LTSP guy
<ogra> ++
<jsgotangco> 3. Raw meat is always not so good
<pips1> ogra: ??
<ogra> pips1, membership is time limited and needs to be renewed ... 
<ogra> every 2 years ...
<pips1> ogra: oh, I was talking about membership time in LP for the edubunt-website team.. 
<ogra> highvoltage switched that feature off when he approved you in the LP team
<pips1> with highvoltage
<pips1> so you are saying the default policy is to set a membership to 2 years? for any LP team?
<ogra> at least for the -members teams and the -dev teams
<pips1> ic
<ogra> for others its up to the team lead
<pips1> and you can't limit the membership once it was set?
<ogra> i did change it 
<pips1> right, ok
<ogra> and granted you an extra day :)
<pips1> hehe
* ogra takes a break ...
<pips1> ogra: we really need to get that todo list for the online docs together, should I prepare a wiki page or will you do it?
<pips1> ack.. he's gone
<LaserJock> is the meeting ajourned?
<pips1> I think so, not sure
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Ubugtu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Oct 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 20:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 20:00 UTC: Technical Board
<Kamion> ogra,highvoltage: done
<highvoltage> Kamion: kewl. thanks.
<ogra> Kamion, thx
<Express> benc'est fois ci c'est bon :D :/
<Express> benje bon ben je crois que j'ai drang pour pas grand chose....
<Kamion> Express: ceci n'est pas un channel franais; c'est seul pour les runions au sujet Ubuntu
<Kamion> (excuse my terrible French)
<Express> Kamion= sincerelly sorry excuse for that ;) :) D
<nixternal> hehe, Kamion, that is why i love google, it always helps me out in times of need ;)
<nixternal> @schedule chicago
<Ubugtu> Schedule for America/Chicago: 23 Oct 14:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 15:00: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 14:00: Technical Board
<nixternal> wow, rest of the month is rather lax
<Kamion> TB and Ubuntu development meetings are cancelled for the next week-and-a-bit due to the Edgy release
<Toadstool> Kamion: I've seen far more terrible French, even by French guys :)
<dipswitch> hi!
<paulvg> hi!
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-19
<GNAM> @schedule ROME
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 23 Oct 21:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 22:00: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 21:00: Technical Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-20
<freeflying> @schedule shanhai
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 24 Oct 03:00: Accessibility Team | 26 Oct 04:00: Edubuntu | 08 Nov 04:00: Technical Board
<bieb> @schedule New York
<bieb> @schedule NewYork
<bieb> @schedule atlanta
<bieb> @schedule eastern
<Ubugtu> Schedule for Canada/Eastern: 23 Oct 15:00: Accessibility Team | 25 Oct 16:00: Edubuntu | 07 Nov 15:00: Technical Board
<looksaus> I'm looking for a list of participants to the mountain view summit
<looksaus> anyone knows if something like that is online?
<stgraber> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDeveloperSummitMountainView/Attendees
<tonyyarusso> If any of the attendees are around and looking for a project, I wrote up a spec but won't be going myself ( https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GaimCalendarAutoAways)
<Toadstool> looksaus: https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-mtv <-- the official list of attendees
<looksaus> Toadstool, had just found that myself, but thx
#ubuntu-meeting 2006-10-22
<airjump> hello
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-15
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
<kraut> moin
<RicardoPerez> carlos: ping?
<coolbhavi> Is this in anyway wrong with any loco team? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/IndianPromoters
<coolbhavi> Are my ideologies wrong? I am just trying to bring all the ubenteros into a team and encouraging more and more members to become ubenteros by this... I am trying to model my loco team on par with ubuntu and no support.. They are firing me... Ubuntu Sucks..
<coolbhavi> No encouragement Kicked me out of irc.. For telling this..
<coolbhavi> Anyone Listening?
<dthacker> coolbhavi: this is a meeting channel.  take your discussion to #ubuntu-locoteams, please
<popey> does anyone have the logs for the last cc meeting, Fabbiones is blank
<soren> popey: When was it?
<popey> http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2007-10-09.html
<soren> I should have that somewhere.
<soren> Hang on.
<popey> I really should figure out how to auto-log in irssi :)
<soren> popey: http://people.ubuntu.com/~soren/cc-meeting.log
<popey> thanks soren
<soren> popey: Which irc client are you using?
<popey> irssi
<popey> via screen
<soren> /set autolog on
<soren> it's that hard :)
<soren> Yes, really.
<soren> ~/irclogs/irc-network/channel-name.log
<popey> :)
<popey> 14:45:54 autolog = ON
<popey> woot, ta
<soren> np
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-16
<kraut> moin
<highvoltage> niom
<juliux> hi kraut
<kraut> hi juliux
<kraut> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 16 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 18:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 17:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 16:00: Community Development Team
<juliux> kraut, are you comeing to ubucon?
<kraut> where is it located?
<kraut> anyway don't think so
<kraut> i have at the moment less time :/
<juliux> kraut, krefeld
<kraut> it's ~300 km far away, i don't think so ;)
<zul> @schedule montreal
<ubotu> Schedule for America/Montreal: 16 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 12:00: QA Team | 23 Oct 11:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 12:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 10:00: Community Development Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 19 Oct 13:00 UTC: MOTU Mentoring | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 19 Oct 13:00 UTC: MOTU Mentoring | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team
<BenC> FYI, there will be no kernel team meeting today due to release and other priorities
<zul> awwww
* ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:ubotu] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Oct 16:00 UTC: QA Team | 19 Oct 13:00 UTC: MOTU Mentoring | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
* Starting logfile irclogs/ubuntu-meeting.log
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-18
<kraut> moin
<zul> schedule montreal
<pitti> hi
<mvo> hello
<pitti> shepherding #u-r-p is fun ... and pain...
<zul> pitti: you love it
<pitti> educates me in reading English REALLY fast :)
<Keybuk> :-)
<Keybuk> ok, so let's keep this nice and quick
<Keybuk> first off, congratulations to you all!
 * pitti hugs the team, Gutsy is great! moderately buggy, but so many new good stuff
 * ogra congratulates the giats on whose sholders he stands with edubuntu
<Riddell> hi
<ogra> *giants too :)
<Keybuk> Riddell: and especial congrats for getting Kubuntu out single-handedly
<mvo> is macslow on vac?
<kwwii> hi
 * mvo hugs Riddell
<Keybuk> mvo: he's ill :-(
<mvo> oh :(
<mvo> missed the release day, poor thing
<kwwii> he is hiding from the angry mobs of compiz haters
<Keybuk> sadly it's a bitter sweet celebration
<Keybuk> iwj: thanks for all your work over the years
<Keybuk> and good luck for the future!
 * ogra hugs iwj 
 * dholbach hugs iwj too
<mvo> iwj: good luck, it was great having you!
 * mvo hugs iwj
<mvo> iwj: I still enjoy the book authors that you recommended :)
<mvo> kwwii: and left me alone facing them :P
<kwwii> mvo: :-)
<Keybuk> random stat of the day
<Keybuk> we maxed out our 7GB line two ours before the release ;)
<Keybuk> hours too
<Riddell> wow
<pitti> iwj: all the best again, it was a real pleasure to work with you (and play Mao :-P)
<ogra> geez
<pitti> Keybuk: 'orrible
<Keybuk> Hardy: I've chatted to about half of you about the plan for UDS, and will catch up with the rest tomorrow afternoon once I'm back home from the office madness
<iwj> Keybuk: Thanks :-).
<iwj> It's been a pleasure to work with you guys, too, and to know you.
<Keybuk> so the business now is to rest up, get your specs for UDS registered and let's make hardy rock!
<Keybuk> if there's no other business for the meeting, I'll let you all go celebrate
<pitti> I had some questions about FOSSCamp, but no need to do that in the meeting
<Keybuk> (there won't be a meeting next day since we have the day off pre-UDS, so I'll see you all on Saturday at FOSSCamp)
<pitti> ah, that was my other q :)
<Keybuk> pitti: sure, I'm happy to attempt to answer them out of the meeting if you prefer
<pitti> I just generally wondered how we'll organize the "who's who" on fosscamp
<pitti> will we do a first session where everyone gives a 20-second introduction?
<pitti> so that we'll know whom to talk to?
<Keybuk> I have no idea, Jono may know the answer
 * kwwii thinks we should have people with horns announcing us as we enter the building
<jono> this is still being decided
<pitti> ok, I'll ask him then; I might not be the only one, so I'll ask on distro-team@
<pitti> jono: ok
<Keybuk> ok, any other business?
<pitti> the magic three post-release items: get blueprints, get drunk, get sleep :)
<Keybuk> indeed, enjoy
<Keybuk> adjourned
<mvo> thanks
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-19
<howfixbadubuntu> howfixbadubuntu?
<howfixbadubuntu> howfixbadubuntu?
<howfixbadubuntu> howfixbadubuntu?
<howfixbadubuntu> howfixbadubuntu?
<howfixbadubuntu> plz?
<gpocentek> Hobbsee: could you do the same on -motu ? :)
<Hobbsee> gpocentek: for the love of anythign good, use !ops when wanting something from an op, like a kickban.  or /query me
 * Hobbsee sees lots of red everywhere, and so has no idea if that's current, or was from hours ago
<Mithrandir> Hobbsee: /lastlog -h is nice.
<Hobbsee> Mithrandir: that's true, but i tend to read most of it anyway
 * Hobbsee needs nalioth's irssi ban script
<kraut> moin
<Hobbsee> damned tor
<Hobbsee> if he comes up anywhere else, call !ops
<dholbach> Hobbsee: #ubuntu-bugs #ubuntu-desktop #ubuntu-mobile
<Hobbsee> dholbach: only has ops in 1, no staffer to kline beyond that
<dholbach> Hobbsee: OK
<soren> @schedule Copenhagen
 * soren kicks ubotu
<dholbach> heya
<Fujitsu> Evening.
<TheMuso> Hey folks.
<nxvl> good morning
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:59. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * TheMuso will do minutes/announcements, if nobody else wants to.
<dholbach> Welcome to the MOTU Meeting
<dholbach> thanks a lot TheMuso
<dholbach> we have an agenda at: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Meetings
<dholbach> First up is persia
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Hardy Freeze Schedule. Discussion to consider the merits of earlier UVFUniverse and NewPackagesFreezeUniverse to allow greater time for QA for the LTS.
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardy Freeze Schedule. Discussion to consider the merits of earlier UVFUniverse and NewPackagesFreezeUniverse to allow greater time for QA for the LTS.
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HardyReleaseSchedule
<Hobbsee> morning.  now is the meeting?
<ScottK> Hobbsee: Yes.
<persia> In August (specifically the meeting of the 10th), we were discussing the possible freeze schedules for Hardy, in light of it being an LTS release.  We didn't gome to a conclusion, but some ideas were presented, including:
<persia> 1) Not allowing any new packages
<persia> 2) Matching UVF / NPUF with DIF
<persia> 3) Requiring specs for everything
<persia> I wanted to revisit this discussion as Hardy is opening, and build some consensus if we wanted to adjust any freeze dates for Universe, so these could be communicated when the official schedule was developed at UDS.
<dholbach> a shame we don't have slangasek here
<dholbach> let's try to get another few release team members
<ScottK> I'd like to add manage a way to do Universe rebuilds and actually do them.
<persia> Ah.  Found it.  Previous meeting log:
<TheMuso> 1) I understand the meaning, but I am not for it, only because UbuntuStudio is likely to push new packages in, but at the same time, we will keep them updated.
<ScottK> on a schedule.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Well, we're reliant on lucas for those.
<persia> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/MOTU/20070810
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/MOTU/20070810
<TheMuso> 2) Agreed.
<TheMuso> 3) Not sure if we need to go that far.
<persia> ScottK: That sounds really good, and fits well with the idea of earlier freezes for Universe.
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Do they actually get done?  Maybe need one earlier?
<Fujitsu> ScottK: We normally have one or two, fairly late.
<persia> Fujitsu: Did we have one for gutsy?
<dholbach> Ok, what is the problem we want to solve generally?
<Fujitsu> persia: I believe so, but I don't think bugs were filed.
<persia> The general issue is that if LTS is to be supported, it ought to be fairly QA clean to start: no FTBFS, no unmetdeps, no plain doesn't work, etc.
<ScottK> dholbach: Have Universe not suck for LTS support.
<TheMuso> persia: agreed.
<persia> Fujitsu: Ah.  I didn't hear about it :(
<TheMuso> persia: me neither
<dholbach> persia, ScottK: I could think of other measures to get that done: QA lists announced regularly and early, good efforts coordinated with QA team members, etc
 * ScottK adds "and have better communications about it".
<dholbach> Is that part of the solution?
 * Hobbsee ignores the meeting, and plays with red fire
<persia> dholbach: Those are great measures, sure, and a good thing, but I think they are orthagonal to the question of whether we want to adjust freezes.
<dholbach> persia: I think they are solutions to the problem.
 * norsetto thinks that if he hears orthogonal again will join Hobbsee
<dholbach> I'm not directly opposed to introducing freezes earlier, but to me these seem more obvious solutions
<ScottK> Where I was leading up to is I think moving New Package Freeze back to Feature Freeze/UVF and doing a rebuild then is a good start to transition for development to fixing.
<TheMuso> dholbach: But it gives us more time to clean up.
<dholbach> early rebuilds sounds good
<TheMuso> And get things in deacent shape.
<persia> dholbach: OK.  I'm just wanting to re-raise the previous discussion, as there seemed to be interest, but no conclusion.  I'm not convinced about freeze dates, but didn't want it to be lost.  Other measures are useful, but separate.
<dholbach> more and earlier freezes will put more pressure on the UVF team and I'm sure there will be stuff we want to get in before release
<ScottK> I thought pitti's thread on revised freezed dates dumped all that into one date anyway?
<persia> ScottK: As a UVF member from the last cycle, how much more load do you think that would be?
<persia> ScottK: Pitti proposed that, but it's not represented on the current draft schedule.
<ScottK> Depends on what we're talkign about.
<ScottK> If it's move New package freeze to Feb 14, no big deal.
<persia> ScottK; Moving UVF earlier = more pressure for UVF
<ScottK> If it's much more than that, it'll get to be painful.
<dholbach> ScottK: should we discuss raising the number of people in the -uvf team?
<ScottK> I think we also ought to consider mapping out the endgame of the final freeze on more detail.
<ScottK> dholbach: No, I don't think so.
<TheMuso> ScottK: Seconded.
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Yeah, rather than sort of... working it out as we go, a day in advance.
<dholbach> ScottK: what does  mapping out the endgame of the final freeze on more detail  mean?
<persia> Does anyone feel we need more that six weeks between upstream / feature / new freeze and beta?
<TheMuso> persia: no
<TheMuso> dholbach: As in, when does universe go into hard freeze.
<ScottK> dholbach: This time I was working with the RM a day or two before to figure out when the last chance to upload for Gutsy would be.
<dholbach> ScottK, TheMuso: ok thanks
<ScottK> I think it was reasonably well communicated as it happened, so no last minute suprises, but there were last day or two suprsises.
<dholbach> so the discussion right now is: move NPF from 28.2. to 14.2.?
<dholbach> do you think that's going to help a lot with our QA efforts?
<ScottK> That's the minimalist solution.
<ScottK> I think it's a 2 part problem.
<ScottK> That's one.
<persia> I'm happy with no change or minimal change.  There doesn't seem to be the interest in freeze adjustment there was in August, so perhaps it was only a perceived issue, rather than a real issue.
<ScottK> Part two is it seemed like there wasn't a big bug fix push until the very end, but of course that's often not visible, so I"m not sure.
<dholbach> I'm happy to discuss tools and measures to make Universe QA better
<persia> ScottK: I think part 2 is just us preparing a push plan earlier (and at least me reviewing the RC list prior to beta freeze)
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Is there any timeline for universe rebuilds?
<ScottK> persia: I think it might be a good idea to identify some bug fix internal milestones too
<dholbach> Fujitsu: I don't know about it, but I can ask.
<ScottK> persia: Along the lines of what you just said.
<TheMuso> I think we need to pus the RC list more as well.
<TheMuso> push
<persia> ScottK: Agreed, but I don't think that's clearly dependent on freeze dates.
<ScottK> TheMuso: Agreed.
<dholbach> There's enough bugs in the bug tracker already - are we merely aiming for ftbfs/unmetdeps?
<ScottK> persia: No, more of goals.
<persia> TheMuso: Absolutely.  Debcheck as well.
<TheMuso> persia: Whats debcheck?
<ScottK> dholbach: If we had none of that at release, that'd be a huge victory.
<persia> dholbach: No.  More than that, but it's not something we need to decide now, and it's also not something we need to stuff in the bugtracker.
<dholbach> ok, let's try to come to a conclusion on freeze dates before we drift away
<persia> TheMuso: http://alt.qeuni.net/~william/debcheck/
<TheMuso> oh that
 * Fujitsu should update that for hardy soon.
<TheMuso> Is it in the TODO?
<TheMuso> at the least, so its findable?
<persia> Based on discussion, for my agenda item, I'd like to hear votes on whether anyone thinks it would be useful to adjust NewPackagesForUniverseFreeze to match UpstreamVersionFreeze.  I didn't hear any other proposals today.
<ScottK> +1
<dholbach> ok, let's vote
<TheMuso> persia: I'd say yes, as it means we can do more bugfixing.
<TheMuso> so +1
<dholbach> [VOTE] NPF matching with UVF
<MootBot> Please vote on:  NPF matching with UVF.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<Fujitsu> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Fujitsu. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<persia> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from persia. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<ScottK> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from ScottK. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<nxvl> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nxvl. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<TheMuso> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from TheMuso. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<geser> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from geser. 6 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 6
<dholbach> 0
<Fujitsu> dholbach: +0
<dholbach> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from dholbach. 6 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 6
<dholbach> Ok, I'll pass this on to the ubuntu-release team
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.
<dholbach> so it gets included in the UDS release scheduling session
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Universe rebuilds
<MootBot> Vote is in progress. Finishing now.
<MootBot> Final result is 6 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 6
<MootBot> New Topic:  Universe rebuilds
<dholbach> ScottK: do you know who our contacts are for that?
<ScottK> dholbach: No I don't, but Fujitsu was saying lucas earlier
<dholbach> Ok, I'll make sure to get an answer from IS people on that and report on the list
<dholbach> it'd be good to have results early
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Thanks, yeah.
<geser> lucas did the last rebuilds
<persia> I'd like to see rebuilds at least after DIF and UVF.
<persia> (if there are resources)
<ScottK> Sounds good.
<Fujitsu> And probably around beta too.
<TheMuso> agreed.
<dholbach> iwj's autopkgtest dug up some of them too
<ScottK> Fujitsu: Yes.
<dholbach> I'm not sure when it runs
<persia> Fujitsu: That'd be nice, but there's not much time, and 10,000 packages
<dholbach> [ACTION] dholbach to pass on NPF decision
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dholbach to pass on NPF decision
<dholbach> [ACTION] dholbach to ask IS people about universe rebuilds
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dholbach to ask IS people about universe rebuilds
<ScottK> persia: But if it's the 3rd one it shouldn't turn much up, so the results should be actionable.
<dholbach> I'll also coordinate that with release managers to get it on the schedule
<persia> ScottK: True.  Saves me running rebuilds locally :)
<Fujitsu> If we can keep things sane early on, it'll be easier to manage at the end.
<Fujitsu> Same with the RC bugs.
<dholbach> can we move on to Universe QA efforts?
<geser> what should happen (and when) to packages where don't manage to fix the FTBFS?
<ScottK> It also saves us chasing Debian FTBFS bugs that don't affect us.
<persia> ScottK: only to a certain degree: we still need to check dates on dependencies, rebuilds, and bug filing, but it makes it easier.
<ScottK> geser: That's a good way to move into removal policy.
<dholbach> [TOPIC] Universe QA measures for Hardy
<MootBot> New Topic:  Universe QA measures for Hardy
<Fujitsu> geser: Erm, you hit them harder to make it work :P
<ScottK> dholbach: I'd say be aggressive about removals is one thing.
<dholbach> so what's on our list apart from FTBFSes and unmetdeps?
<ScottK> Expunging ancient cruft before release.
<TheMuso> Deskto pfiles
<TheMuso> desktop files even
<dholbach> I'm wary about desktop files
<persia> Is there anything special or new for Hardy?  If we have rebuilds, and advertise debcheck, RCbugs, automated FTBFS list, and the like, won't we be in good shape?
<dholbach> seb128: ^ (desktop files)
<ScottK> We managed to get openssl097 killed finally only on Monday before release.
<persia> TheMuso: What about .desktop files?
<seb128> dholbach: thanks, reading
<dholbach> persia: people want menu entries for packages they install
<TheMuso> dholbach was asking what else for Q
<TheMuso> QA and they come up a lot in bugs
<persia> ScottK: That's entirely my fault: I need to read my mail more.
<seb128> stop adding desktop files until there is a proper way to translate those
<ScottK> persia: But the key thing is we killed it.
<seb128> there is a rosetta spec about that
<TheMuso> I don't think its important, but thought it was worth mentioning
<Fujitsu> Do we have a policy at all about removals?
<persia> dholbach: Ah.  Yes.  I don't really consider that a QA issue, given the contention between poor translations & coverage.
<TheMuso> seb128: Makes sense.
<dholbach> ok good
<dholbach> thanks seb128 :)
<dholbach> ok, who will work on getting regular lists of things like unmetdeps? how do we maintain them?
<Fujitsu> seb128: Has it been around for the requisite 2 years yet?
<ScottK> Fujitsu: I think the defacto removal policy is file a bug if a package annoys you enough.
<Fujitsu> dholbach: unmetdeps is done by debcheck.
<seb128> Fujitsu: I don't understand your "requisite 2 years"
<dholbach> Fujitsu: so the list is actively updated and we can work from using it?
<persia> seb128: Is implementation in rosetta planned during the Hardy cycle?
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Updated every six hours.
<dholbach> Fujitsu: care to add to MOTU/TODO?
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Sure.
<dholbach> good
<seb128> persia: no idea, but I would doubt of it, rosetta doesn't move really quickly
<persia> seb128: That's about what I thought.
<dholbach> one thing I'd really like to see for hardy is: more bugs tagged as bitesize and packaging
<dholbach> we really want to have huge lists we can show to new contributors to get working on them
<Fujitsu> seb128: Just noting that LP moves slower than a glacier often.
 * TheMuso tends to fix such bugs if he comes accross them.
<dholbach> does anybody have an idea, how we can get more of our universe bugs fixed?
<persia> dholbach: I don't see that as a useful QA thing.  It's a good way to feed contributors, but there's heaps of bugs that got tagged, but not fixed for gutsy, which just indicates that people use tagging as a proxy for actually doing the work,.
<TheMuso> persia: Hense my just fixing them.
<persia> TheMuso: Right.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: of course, it's hard to do QA when people keep requesting billions of new packages into the archive, or updated versions, just because they can
<dholbach> I have lots of people who ask me which tasks they can start working on
<dholbach> and lots of those easy bugs GOT fixed
<dholbach> Hobbsee: those are not bitesize tasks
<dholbach> or often enough are not
<TheMuso> I generally trawl bug lists if I have time. So if thats the case, they get fixed.
<persia> dholbach: For getting more bugs closed, there are two main things: firstly better coordination with the bug team, and secondly more focus on actually reviewing packages completely before uploading, rather than just fixing a bug.
<Hobbsee> dholbach: sorry, related to earlier, with the NPF
<dholbach> Hobbsee: ah ok
<dholbach> persia: how would you like to see the coordination happening? whom to talk to? what do you expect of the team?
<Fujitsu> persia: What do you mean by reviewing packages completely?
<dholbach> Fujitsu: reviewing the bugs of a package you're about to upload
<dholbach> the desktop team does that a lot
<ScottK> dholbach: I'd suggest, in terms of actual work getting done, it's as, if not more, important to look into why MOTUs become less active and seeing what can be done to get ones that have gone inactive back.
<dholbach> (at least looking at 'fix committed' bugs of the package, that have patches attached)
<persia> dholbach: That's the issue.  I don't know.  I don't have the feeling that MOTU and bugsquad are working closely to close things, but I don't know how to fix that.  I do think tagging is best done by bugsquad (including MOTUs wearing a bugsquad hat)
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Right, everybody should be doing that.
<TheMuso> ScottK: aye
<TheMuso> But mostly its life getting in the way
<dholbach> ScottK: market research on inactive MOTUs is a good idea, but I feel we need  easy todo list items for new contributors to reach out to people who are not MOTUs yet too
<persia> Fujitsu: Right.  Lots of people don't.  I read all my changelogs, and often see three updates by three different people in three days, all for simple things.
<dholbach> persia: so you think that something like universe bug days would be a good measure?
<ScottK> dholbach: I've noticed a lot of experience contributors drop off.
<persia> dholbach: Recruiting is good, but not really a QA topic, no?  New contributors need to learn, and the orphan packages are not always the best place.
<dholbach> I'm just saying that as we work on universe bugs (not all universe packages are orphaned ones), we should make sure to keep the list of easy and manageable tasks for new contributors growing
<persia> dholbach: Universe bug days only work if someone runs them, and we've had no volunteers for all of Gutsy.  That might change, but I'd rather see someone who wants to tackle interaction with bugsquad come up with a solution, rather than imposing one.
<dholbach> I think that's already going to help (as one part of the puzzle)
<ScottK> dholbach: I don't think getting the easy bugs fixed is our major problem.  It's the hard one.
<dholbach> persia: maybe we should discuss this on the bugsquad lists, if we can come up with some ideas for it
<ScottK> one/ones
<persia> As one part.  Not having lots of people reach for the MOTU bar, get it, and look for another challenge is the other side of the coin.
<dholbach> ScottK: right, I said it's one part of the puzzle
<persia> dholbach: Perhaps.  I don't yet have enough ideas to feed such a discussion well.
<dholbach> right
<ScottK> I just think it's an incredibly small one.
<dholbach> it'll get them involved, but OK, let's leave the tagging discussion out for now
<dholbach> any more measures we can think of
<dholbach> ?
<ScottK> Agressive removal policy
<dholbach> we've had problems with that before and it should be discussed on ubuntu-devel@
<persia> So, in summary, for QA, we'll focus on debcheck, RC bugs, and whole-package-maintenance.  We'll agressively remove cruft, and do a couple whole-archive rebuild runs.
<dholbach> you always have people among the 8 million ubuntu users who still use the package you'Re removing
<ScottK> Early look at transistions and seeing what can be done to accelerate them.
<dholbach> all sounds good, yes
<dholbach> can we transform some of them into action items?
<ScottK> In the openssl097 case we only finished the transition because I accidentally noticed it was almost done.
<persia> dholbach: There are lots of packages that are safe to remove with some investigation.  Old versions of libraries with 10 packages that need porting, debmake, etc.
<dholbach> ScottK: nice :)
<ScottK> We need a sustained look at that kind of thing.
<geser> ScottK: I guess the archive admins won't be happpy to review the removed packages again for hardy+1 when they get synced again
<persia> ScottK: Back in Just we ported 7 or 8 packages that hadn't been recompiled since Dapper :)
<ScottK> geser: They can blacklist them.
<persia> s/Just/June/
<ScottK> persia: One of which is about to be subject to a removal request
<persia> geser: The blacklist persists across cycles
<geser> ScottK: so you want to remove packages for ever because we didn't fix a ftbfs?
<dholbach> still, I'd like to have something like guidelines for removal discussed, "agressive removal" does not sound very inviting
<ScottK> geser: I didn't say what the agressive removal policy should be.  Just that we should have one.
<ScottK> dholbach: Agreed, it needs to be defined.
 * persia proposes "oldlibs review & porting" in place of "agressive removal"
<dholbach> who wants to start the discussion on ubuntu-devel?
<ScottK> One other issue is supporting Dapper --> Gutsy upgrades.
<persia> I don't think it needs ubuntu-devel discussion, except perhaps for leaf apps.  Most of the good targets are infrastructure, and not contentious.
<persia> ScottK: Dapper -> Gutsy?  Dapper -> Hardy?
<dholbach> persia: not for every package, but for something policy-like
<ScottK> There are things that may need to be done with replaces/conflicts that we wouldn't normally think of
<ScottK> Gutsy/Hardy yes
<dholbach> ScottK: mvo will run test upgrades and file bugs for them
<Fujitsu> dholbach: On universe too?
<dholbach> Fujitsu: yes, AFAIK
<Fujitsu> OK.
<ScottK> dholbach: When will he start?
<persia> dholbach: Do we need a policy?  If people have time, getting rid of oldlibs, etc. seems to be in line with NBS stuff.
<dholbach> who will talk to him about that?
<dholbach> persia: still, "agressive removal" should be defined somewhere
<ScottK> dholbach: Agreed and probably not right now.
<dholbach> ScottK: I think it runs in the datacenter every now and then
 * persia doesn't really like the term "aggressive removal" anyway.
<dholbach> ok, so who will talk to mvo about that?
<dholbach> who will start the removal discussion?
<ScottK> persia: Pick one.
<ScottK> dholbach: I'll conspire with StevenK and try to come up with something to start the removal discussion.
<dholbach> ScottK: thanks
<dholbach> [ACTION] ScottK to start discussion about removal policy together with ScottK
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to start discussion about removal policy together with ScottK
<ajmitch> :)
<dholbach> oops
<ScottK> Heh.
<ScottK> At least coordination will be easy.
<dholbach> well the other S*K :)
<dholbach> lalala
<dholbach> ok, I'll talk to mvo
<dholbach> [ACTION] dholbach to talk to mvo about upgrade tests including Universe
<MootBot> ACTION received:  dholbach to talk to mvo about upgrade tests including Universe
 * ajmitch will sit back on a beach & relax
<dholbach> anything else before we move on?
<TheMuso> dholbach: Is there going to be anything at UDS to do with MOTU? i.e do you have any specs planned?
<ScottK> ajmitch is one of the people dholbach should work on remotivating.
<persia> ajmitch: I thought you were going to update & revise the RC buglist?
<dholbach> [TOPIC] UDS Specs
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS Specs
<dholbach> ScottK: Ok, I'll try my best. :-)
<ajmitch> persia: that too
<ScottK> Who is going?
 * TheMuso is.
<persia> \o/
<ajmitch> ScottK: I'm a lost cause, sorry
 * ScottK will be there Sunday/Monday (probably)
<dholbach> sistpoty and siretart, superm1 are
<seb128> dholbach: you will make mvo cry ;-)
<TheMuso> And at least one hopeful will also be there.
<TheMuso> I'm mentoring him.
<dholbach> and a couple of others I can't remember right now
<siretart> sorry?
<dholbach> siretart: you'll be at UDS
<siretart> yes! :)
<dholbach> things I wanted to do at UDS are:
<siretart> and you can't imagine how much I'm looking forward to that
<dholbach> review bzr best practices
<dholbach> revisit packaging guide on the wiki
<ScottK> dholbach: How does that relate to MOTU?
<dholbach> revisit ubuntu process docs on the wiki
<ScottK> The bzr thing?
<dholbach> ScottK: it concerns ubuntu developers in general
 * ScottK isn't sure how.
<geser> ScottK: I guess for packaging with bzr
<dholbach> exactly
 * proppy wonders how expensive is paris-boston
 * Hobbsee is not going to UDS
<ajmitch> proppy: cheaper than flying from NZ
 * norsetto tells proppy that the flight is nothing compared to the hotel .....
<dholbach> any other business before we move on to fixed items?
<dholbach> ok, next meeting time?
<persia> +344 hours
<ScottK> dholbach: Was that your personal list or list of stuff you think it MOTU related?
<dholbach> persia: erm? :)
<TheMuso> persia: smart alec.
<persia> Fri, November 2nd, 20:00 UTC
<geser> isn't that during UDS?
<persia> TheMuso: It was handy from the 10th August meeting :)
<dholbach> ScottK: oh, also revisit motu processes and see if we have any bottlenecks we should try to fix
<persia> geser: Yes.
<ajmitch> geser: that's happened before
<TheMuso> geser: yes
<TheMuso> that will be interesting for those of us at UDS.
<TheMuso> We may not be able to attend.
<TheMuso> depending on the goings on at the time.
<dholbach> right
<persia> Ah.  Right.  0:00 UTC?  4:00 UTC?
<dholbach> maybe we should defer the discussion to the mailing list?
<dholbach> and ask who would come to the meeting anyway (UDS or not)?
<persia> I think we should schedule for a time convenient from UDS that doesn't conflict with the sessions.
<persia> (on Friday)
<dholbach> 20:00 UTC would be what? 16:00 local?
<ScottK> dholbach: Yes
<TheMuso> dholbach: I agree. Chances are we'll be so exhausted that we won't want to attend.
<persia> Something like that.  Maybe a little later?
<TheMuso> dholbach: Yes. 00 is also out of the question.
<dholbach> I think that'll be the time the event closes
<TheMuso> UTC that is
<ajmitch> persia: later would not work
<dholbach> not sure if that makes much sense :-/
<TheMuso> dholbach: IT does to me.
<ajmitch> once UDS is wrapped up, everyone goes out & gets drunk
 * ScottK would say push it a week.
<ajmitch> from what I've heard, at least :)
<TheMuso> ScottK: Aye, I'm enclined to agree.
 * persia defers
<TheMuso> Let us get back, and recover. :)
<Fujitsu> ScottK: Agreed.
<persia> 9th November.  What time?
<dholbach> I can't promise I can make it there, because I'll be at another conference, but that should be fine
<dholbach> 13:00 UTC? (same time)
<TheMuso> this was at 12:00
<persia> (This started 12;00 UTC)
<TheMuso> And afaik the mentoring meeting starts soon
<dholbach> right, 12:00 UTC seems to be a good time for a bunch of us, it seems
 * persia likes shifting times for people in other timezones, but finds 12:00 very convenient.
 * geser can't before 14 UTC
<persia> 20:00?
<TheMuso> I could do 20:00
<persia> (before that is too early here)
<dholbach> (regarding the next agenda item: I'll figure something out regarding the Q&A sessions)
<dholbach> oops
<geser> 20 UTC WFM
<Fujitsu> TheMuso: We'll be in AEDT by then, won't we?
<persia> I thought Open Week would handle the Q&A session bits.
<TheMuso> Fujitsu: Yes indeed.
<persia> Fujitsu: Should be.
<Fujitsu> So not too bad.
<TheMuso> 7AM
<dholbach> persia: right - just for the week after that
<persia> Anyone bad for 9th November, 20:00 UTC?
<Fujitsu> Yeah.
<dholbach> sounds good
 * ajmitch might even turn up
 * persia proposes first REVU days as 6th November
 * ajmitch should sleep now, really
<persia> Umm.  5th (Monday)
<TheMuso> persia: SOunds good.
<TheMuso> Mind you, I get back that day, so I will probably be rather out to it.
<persia> TheMuso: Understood.  I just can't imagine anyone wants to REVU at UDS, and the archive won't open much earlier.
<TheMuso> oh of course
 * TheMuso will likely do merges in any spare time he has at UDS anyway. :p
<ScottK> One QA idea I just had is to mention that New packages can be backported to get early user exposure when there's still time to fix them.
<TheMuso> ScottK: I like that.
 * Fujitsu notes we have some 500 merges at this point.
<persia> ScottK: Could you expand a little (not that there's really time)
<ScottK> The backport is easy since there is absolutely no regression risk.
<TheMuso> ScottK: I guess more help on the backports team would be desirable if thats the case?
 * persia celebrates only 500 merges
<dholbach> ok, let's move all the other discussions to #ubuntu-motu
<ScottK> TheMuso: Definitely
<dholbach> who will announce the dates on the mailing list?
<Fujitsu> dholbach: Sounds good.
<TheMuso> ok will do minutes and announcements and have them out in next 48 hours or so
<dholbach> thanks a lot TheMuso
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:59.
<dholbach> Thanks everybody
<TheMuso> np
<persia> Thanks dholbach for chairing
<dholbach> logs available at: http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/
<dholbach> shall we have a 5 minutes break before the next meeting?
<dholbach> norsetto: ?
<TheMuso> sounds good
<norsetto> dholbach: sure
<dholbach> great
<dholbach> see you in 5
<dholbach> OK
<dholbach> Welcome everybody to the MOTU Mentoring meeting
<dholbach> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 14:05. The chair is dholbach.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<dholbach> we're all here to discuss the future of the project that is described here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<dholbach> the aim of the project is to help getting one on one time with experienced developers to new contributors who just start to contribute
<dholbach> by no means is this supposed the definite and only way to help new contributors
<dholbach> it's meant to be a framework to help getting most out of that one on one time
 * TheMuso is likely to only be around for another 20 mins or so.
<dholbach> norsetto: was that OK as an introduction?
<dholbach> norsetto: you had a few proposals or ideas to present
<norsetto> dholbach: you doing great :-)
<norsetto> first of all, I think we should make the point on the actual situation
 * persia also has a proposal, for later
<dholbach> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring
<norsetto> we have quite a number of participants, and the number is increasing faster and faster
<norsetto> however, as a member of the reception, the feedback we have is very poor
<norsetto> its very difficult to judge how many contributors are still active , to start with
<TheMuso> From me at least, theres practically nothing to give, as my apprentices have a lot of real life stuff atm, so don't have a lot of time for MOTU.
<TheMuso> But are doing bits here and there.
<bluekuja> hi all
<norsetto> themuso: but this is the point, perhaps you could do more with other contributors, as of now we know that you are fully occupied with your contributors and don't consider you for new ones
<TheMuso> norsetto: Well, I am actually thinking of offering one or two more slots.
<TheMuso> And my guys have already got a little experience.
<TheMuso> Not ready to move on without me, but certainly have done their fair share of bits.
<norsetto> anyhow, to make the point of the situation, we have 26 contributors now, adn 33 slots overall
<dholbach> TheMuso: you raise an interesting point: when is the point where they can "move on on their own"
 * persia asks to interject my proposal in response to that question
<dholbach> what should the objective of the mentor be
<dholbach> persia: fire away
<TheMuso> I think its when the mentor thinks they are.
<persia> Currently, we assign a contributor to a MOTU, and occasionally query both to see how the relationship is progressing.  I think it would be good to split this into two separate arrangements.
<persia> The first would be for brand new people, and the mentor would help them decide what they want to do, how to get information to do it, and help develop a road plan for packaging-based Ubuntu membership.
<persia> The second would be for established contributors who wish to become MOTU, and would involve suggestions on the preparation of their application, assistance in developing a roadmap for concentrations of interest, and help / recommendations to collect sponsors that match those interests.
<persia> Ideally, I think the two mentors should be different individuals, and different from primary sponsors, but that may not be appropriate if the interests of the two are closely aligned.
<persia> The idea being it's much easier to determine when someone is ready to move forward, and slot rotation happens faster (albeit for two classes of slots)
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: MOTU Mentoring Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team
<norsetto> persia: the first mentor you are talking about, how many MOTU do you think will be willing to do that?
<TheMuso> I would be.
<dholbach> me too
<fernando> persia, sound like a motu graduation (level)? motu01 is a newest on motu progress? motu02 is a pre-motu?
<dholbach> I get lots of mails asking for more information etc anyway :)
<persia> norsetto: I think a lot of the people interested in sponsoring and mentoring would be happy to help someone move from basic patching through becoming an active contributor.  For those I was assigned, all made that transition, but none are ready to go further yet (although one is likely to try during Hardy)
<norsetto> persia: the key is this: "help someone move from basic patching through becoming an active contributor"
<persia> fernando: I'm rather thinking that the first represents help becoming a Contributor, if people need pointers to the docs, process guidance, etc.  The second is MOTU.
<norsetto> 99% of the request we get are: "Hey, I want to help, give ve a mentor"
<dholbach> persia has a point: I believe we lose many contributors between (what persia describes as) stage 1 and 2
<persia> norsetto: Sure.  I just think there's a time gap, where people are contributing, and still need support from #ubuntu-motu and motu-mentors@, but don't need a dedicated mentor.
<TheMuso> dholbach: agreed.
<huats> persia: may be, it is possible to merge yo contributors idea with the membership one ?
<dholbach> huats: can you explain?
<persia> huats: I like to think that mentoring would help people who wished to do packaging contributions to become members if they were not already members, but I don't want to impose a hard like.
<persia> s/like/link/
<huats> I mean, the first stage that persia  exposed, can be seen as the membership acceptance...
<huats> persia: it was just a suggestion that identify clearly the various stage with something already exists...
<persia> huats: Right.  That's the basic idea.  People want to help.  Someone gives them a hand, introduces them around, and helps put together a plan to become a member.  At this point, they work at their own pace until they want more.  Moving straight to MOTU quickly isn't for everyone.
<huats> the downside of the "merge" is that someone who is a member, is not necesseraly someone interested in packaging...
<norsetto> perhaps we should change the name of the program then, its not MOTU mentoring we are talking about
<dholbach> I think we'd only want to deal with people who express an interest in packaging or development work, or am I wrong?
<persia> huats: Right.  That's why I don't want a hard link.  More that membership consists of lots of things, but packaging is one way to achieve it.  A mentor can help there, but the member is usually capable at that point to move forward.  Some time later, that person is ready to start becoming MOTU.
<persia> dholbach: I completely agree that we should limit to packaging/development.
<TheMuso> +1
<bluekuja> dholbach, I totally agree
<persia> norsetto: I like the name:  it's still MOTUs being the mentors, and about packaging/development.  It's just that there are two learning phases involved.
<huats> dholbach: I totally agree too (+0.5 as I am just neither a member or a MOTU, just a MOTU hopefull)
<persia> First "How can I help".  Second "I'm interested in problem foo, and want a generalised solution, but without upload, I can't do it.  How can I get upload rights?"
<dholbach> huats: you will be soon enough :-)))
<huats> But it is true, that for instance my self, I always like to figure out whereI stand... and everyone likes to see a progression...
<norsetto> I must admit, I really don't see what the first phase has to do with packaging (even though I can see its merits)
<dholbach> can we try to define objectives for those two stages? to define the role of the mentor?
<huats> so the various stages can be a way to see that progression... Once you are after stage one, you have achieved something....
<norsetto> its definetively something that the majority of the users are looking for
<bluekuja> dholbach, would be nice to know which results should a mentor have after a mentoring period of work
<persia> norsetto: I was initially given three people to mentor.  None of them were familiar with any of our tools or processes.  They now are.  One is working on things, and plans to become a MOTU in the future.  It was all packaging/bugfix stuff, but neither they nor I think they should have unreviewed upload yet.
<dholbach> bluekuja: and the mentoree :)
<bluekuja> dholbach, exactly :)
<persia> bluekuja: Exactly.
<dholbach> at the moment the separation of those stages is a bit undistinguished and nebulous to me
<norsetto> persia: so, that would be like a 101 course? An introduction?
<persia> dholbach: Stage 0: wants to help.  Stage 1: can do things, but wants / needs review & support.  Stage 2: MOTU
<dholbach> ok, where's the thin line between 0 and 1?
<persia> norsetto: Currently, my mentees needed a 101 course, and now there's a holding pattern.  Soon, they'll need definitions for becoming MOTU.
<TheMuso> Sorry to run guys, but I must be off. Hope the rest of this meeting works out.
<dholbach> thanks TheMuso, have a great rest of the day
<persia> dholbach: Um.  Let me try again.  Stage 1 is the transition between someone who wants to help and someone who can help.  Stage 2 is the transition between someone who is helping and MOTU
<norsetto> thx TheMuso
<TheMuso> dholbach: Thanks. Its straight to bed for me. :p
<fernando> maybe motus can "increase" points to new motu candidates (after XXX points it get motu). objectives don't sound good for me. a motu can help more with package instead devel.
<dholbach> TheMuso: sleep tight :)
<TheMuso> will do. :)
<huats> TheMuso: sleep well
<persia> fernando: I don't think it's about points.  More about trust and ability.
<fernando> like a motu karma
<dholbach> . o O { for example fernando should be a MOTU :-) }
<huats> persia: I tend to agree with you...
<bluekuja> dholbach, norsetto: one more thing. What are the requirements to ask for a mentor? I mean I wish to contribute but I've never tried to package anything. Can I ask to get a mentor assigned? or I have to read some guides/HOWTOs before?
 * fernando is a newbie
<bluekuja> dholbach, norsetto: In my opinion, ppl should have a small base of work before asking for a mentor
<dholbach> bluekuja: I generally ask people to play with the tools a bit (like in MOTU/Recipes) and ask them for ideas what they'd like to work on
<bluekuja> dholbach, nice starting point
<norsetto> bluekuja: thats a crucial point to me, because we are now asking ppl to show some bug work they have done
<bluekuja> norsetto, great. I think a mentoree should start doing something alone before asking for an official mentor
<norsetto> bluekuja: exactly becuase its too easy now; you just pop in, hey nice, ask for a mentor and then forget about it
<persia> Ah.  If we're asking to show work done, then I think there needs to be a new place, where brand new people can get basic help.  Someone to do personal one on one review of the first few debdiffs, and help understand the basic processes.
<bluekuja> persia, I agree with you here
<norsetto> persia: I'm not against one-on-one, its just that the amount of manpower required is too much
<bluekuja> persia, there should be someone who starts reviewing first debdiffs/packages
<dholbach> yes and asking for a mentor is asking for effort done by others (mailing information out, finding easy tasks, etc)
<norsetto> persia, bluekuja: which is what the u-u-s is doing
<bluekuja> and then move the contributor to a mentor
<BugMaN> if i can do an opinion, stage 0 and stage 1 must have to different "mentoring program"
<persia> norsetto: I think that's because we've defined it too broadly.  I've been basically inactive with my mentees aside from casual email since June, but neither of the two who haven't disappeared are ready yet.  I've been moonlighting with senior contributors who want to become MOTU, but that doesn't help your paperwork.
<persia> BugMaN: Do we need a separate program?  That sounds like administration overhead to me (although if we've volunteers, I'm not opposed)
<norsetto> persia: its not paperwork, is distributing the manpower where there is need
<norsetto> persia: there is a tremendous waste right now
<BugMaN> persia: not separate, but one thing is study how make packaging and one is make few bitesize bug
<persia> norsetto: u-u-s isn't a good place to start.  How do people learn about U-U-S?  Without that bridge, we don't get enough in the pipeline.
<huats> Just a side opinion, I think it is better to call them : stage1 and stage2... it is more appealing than 0 and 1...
<dholbach> let's think a bit about getting people from stage 0 to stage 1 - I think it's good to assign mentors after first contributions
<persia> norsetto: I agree about the waste.
<norsetto> persia: do we have to force feed wiki pages in their throats? Thats what I'm doing most of the time, pointing wiki pages to people
<dholbach> is it enough to mention the sponsorshipprocess, the bitesize bugs and the motu recipes?
<persia> norsetto: Depends on the person.  For all those I took personally, we discussed things, and built understanding.  The wiki was part of that, but knowing which pages to read, and getting a second opinion on understanding was more important.
<norsetto> dholbach: the problem is that the majority of ppl just don't read
<huats> I do think that without that 1-on-1 relathionship it is quite hard to start....
<persia> dholbach: That's emphatically not enough.  That doesn't help people who are willing, but not yet able.
<dholbach> persia: what can we improve?
<norsetto> dholbach: we can write as much as we want, we can't force ppl to read, and many just don't
<bluekuja> dholbach, yes, should be clear that a contributor have to start with something like bitesize bugs (MOTU/Recipes) and then ask for a mentor. So would be nice to have that as necessary requisite
<dholbach> (I agree with persia.)
<huats> norsetto: you did a tremendous work with myself with the flightgear bug... way beyond what you should have.... but I am still there....
<norsetto> huats: what you mean you still there?
<persia> dholbach: I think we need two stages.  One to get people involved and to have a basic understanding, and a second later to help them develop a plan for long-term contribution.
<huats> norsetto: I mean I haven't quit...
<dholbach> is there something we can do to streamline that process?
<huats> norsetto: thanks to your patience, advices....
<norsetto> huats: I didn't manage to scare you off eh? ;-)
<huats> norsetto: well, you almost did when you metionned that you know my place, but not yet :-)
<persia> dholbach: norsetto: highvoltage: could you share a little about the current workflow for registration?  I'm curious how separating stages might interface with that.
<norsetto> persia: highvoltage is not here, he had a personal matter to attend unfortunately
<dholbach> persia: people ask "can I get a mentor?" we ask them "what would you like to work on? did you read ....?", they reply and we assign somebody who might fit
<persia> norsetto: Ah.  nick present, so gets included :)
<norsetto> persia: well, he mentioned using his mobile :-)
<dholbach> norsetto seems to have started for first contributions already
<persia> dholbach: Thanks.  That sounds like too much work to me.
<norsetto> persia: it is, but the problem is really a lot of people asking without a real interest
<norsetto> persia; just because they can
<persia> For a two-stage approach, I'd suggest looking at the LP page for the querant, and if they are already contributing, send them to a Mentor with a note that they're active.  If they aren't, send them to a Mentor with a note that they are new.  Expect the MOTU to help them with guidance, but introduce to the team for help with actual work.
<norsetto> persia: let me repeat .... 99% of the requesters have not done anything ... nothing
<persia> norsetto: If I was assigned someone, and that person didn't respond to emails / IRC for a bit, I'd notify you that the person disappeared.  I expect other mentors would do the same.  Why not share the workload?
<huats> may be it could be a good starting point that people interested in stage0 have to start with bug where someone has offer to mentor on that bug....
<persia> norsetto: That's fine.  None of the mentees I was initially assigned had done anything :)
<persia> huats: True, but I think it usually takes 3-5 bugs to feel comfortable.
<norsetto> persia: I can't name names, but the feedback we are geeting is really poor, in some cases non-existant
<BugMaN> persia: but set time limit to do something?
<persia> norsetto: Ah.  That's not ideal :(
<huats> so may be the first stage could be start with 1 bug with a mentor attached to this bug, and than a couple more with a mentor around....
<norsetto> huats: thats a good point, I think we should push MOTUs to mentor bugs. now that we can
<persia> BugMaN: That sounds good.  Perhaps a fairly short default period, with a request to registration required for extension?
<norsetto> oh well, I did it even if I wasn't a MOTU
<huats> persia: the first stage should not be a "long" one.... It could be seen as a way that people express their interest and familiarize with the tools/procedures....
<persia> I'd even recommend senior contributors to mentor bugs, if they know a solution, but are working on other things / don't have time.
<norsetto> persia: definetively
<persia> huats: Right.  I think most interested contributors could be conversant in a couple weeks.
<persia> huats: Further, I'd suggest the second stage need not be much longer - more consisting of making sure the person has an agenda for contributions, and knows the right people with whom to coordinate for implementation.
<dholbach> persia: who would set the agenda? I've been asked more times than I can count "what can I do now?"
<persia> norsetto: Such a split should give you more slots (because of higher turnover), reducing your pain, but I'm not looking at your queue.
<norsetto> its still not clear to me the practical side of the implementation
<persia> dholbach: I've been asked that a lot.  Generally I encourage the contributor to decide that.  Usually the process involves a couple weeks, and looking at what needs doing, combined with personal interests.
<huats> dholbach: may be the generalization of the weeklyTODO can help ?
<huats> to fix the agenda I mean...
<dholbach> huats: we use something like that for MOTU already
<norsetto> huats: thats definetively needed, dholbach is quite aware of that
<persia> For example, I often suggest collaboration with one of the specialised teams (-desktop, -server, -studio, etc.), combined with a specialisation on something (security, debian collaboration, QA, etc.)
<dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/TODO/Weekly
<huats> norsetto: I know he is aware....
<huats> dholbach: I was meaning to get this kind of TODO for newcomers....
<norsetto> huats: this is what we give to newcomers
<dholbach> huats: it already contains bitesize and packaging tasks
<huats> oh
<huats> oups
<huats> I opened it after writing that ...
<norsetto> back to the two stage approach, how do you guys think it should be implemented, in practice?
<norsetto> do we have to expand the role of the Reception? Do we need to have two different lists of mentors/contributors? This seems like increasing the overhead....
<persia> norsetto: I'd suggest pushing prospective mentees to mentors on an as-available slot basis, and making clear the short-term goals for the relationship.  Some mentors may ask for mentees with for the second stage only, and some for only the first stage, depending on their own interests.
<persia> stage determination could be determined from # of sponsored uploads.  <5 is first stage, >30 is second stage.  In between should be referred to #ubuntu-motu and motu-mentors@
<persia> (for arbitratry values of 5 and 30)
<norsetto> persia: I don't mind the idea, I'm just worried about the availability of people to be mentors for the first stage, its already very difficult for the second
<huats> so if I follow your idea, someone with more than 30 has finished his second stage ?
<huats> but after that it is MOTUship ?
<dholbach> I will have to leave in 3 minutes
<persia> norsetto: I don't think all the current mentees are really second-stage material.  I especially think the discussion on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring encourages first-stage applicants.
<norsetto> persia, huats: to me, its more a question of the mentor deciding
<dholbach> where do we go from here?
<huats> From my point of view and like you mention, MOTUship is not a quantity stuff....
<persia> huats: For arbitrary "30".  It's not a fixed number.  It's really a matter of whether the person is willing to make the committment to maintain universe, and take on the additional responsibilities.
<norsetto> dholbach: we can adjourn here, and continue on another occasion, the discussion is interesting
<dholbach> it's great
<dholbach> it'd benefit from somebody listing the ideas we had during it
<huats> it is really a great discussion I think
<dholbach> shall we have another meeting or do this on the motu mentoring list or on the wiki?
<norsetto> I'm pretty neutral on any of the 3
<dholbach> hm
<norsetto> perhaps less so on the wiki
<persia> I think informal discussion for some time, followed by another meeting to verify consensus would be ideal.
<dholbach> ok, let's try to sum up the ideas on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/Mentoring/Future before we do anything else
 * persia is not fond of using the wiki for initial draft thoughts
<norsetto> persia: yes, I think we should make a summary and submit it to motu-mentors
<dholbach> I just think it'd be good to aggregate the ideas in a better place than a meeting log
<persia> norsetto: Completely agreed.  Do you want to do minutes?
<dholbach> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 15:00.
<dholbach>  Logs available at http://kryten.incognitus.net/mootbot/meetings/
<persia> dholbach: I agree, but think the mailing list is more appropriate for draft thoughts: people search the wiki.
<huats> dholbach, persia  and norsetto  thanks for this various very interesting ideas....
<dholbach> yeah, thanks everybody
<dholbach> persia: ok, that's good too
<norsetto> ok, lets go to the classroom :-)
<norsetto> persia: can we do it double handed?
<persia> norsetto: Sure.  Catch me in about 90 minutes?
<norsetto> persia: perhaps you can draft something, I'll have a look, and then we send it?
<huats> norsetto: classroom ?
<huats> I forgot that too ?
<norsetto> huats: #ubuntu-classroom
<persia> norsetto: Sounds good.  I'll try to get something out tonight, but it may be morning.
<dholbach> you guys rock
 * persia points to #ubuntu-motu for further discussion on mentoring for interested parties:
 * dholbach hugs y'all
<norsetto> persia: sure, no need to hurry, lets do something proper
<huats> I've seen daniel announces in -motu for th QA
* ubotu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 23 Oct 15:00 UTC: Server Team | 23 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 16:00 UTC: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 15:00 UTC: Community Development Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-20
<illovae> bonjourÃ  tous
<freeflying> @schedule shanghai
<ubotu> Schedule for Asia/Shanghai: 23 Oct 23:00: Server Team | 24 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 31 Oct 00:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 23:00: Community Development Team
<kraut> moin
<juliux> @schedule berlin
<ubotu> Schedule for Europe/Berlin: 23 Oct 17:00: Server Team | 23 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 30 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 08 Nov 16:00: Community Development Team
<juliux> @logs
<juliux> @logs
<juliux> @log
<juliux> @logs
<stgraber> !logs
<ubotu> Channel logs can be found at http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/ - Logs for LoCo channels are at http://logs.ubuntu-eu.org/freenode/
<stgraber> !logs | juliux
<ubotu> juliux: please see above
#ubuntu-meeting 2007-10-21
<kraut> moin
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-13
<lifeless> have I missed the meetin ?
<Hobbsee> lifeless: which meeting?
<lifeless> Hobbsee: oh, its monday
<lifeless> Hobbsee: garh
<Hobbsee> lifeless: yeah, i thought you'd missed it!  or were still waiting too early
<persia> lifeless, On the bright side, that means you aren't late :)
<lifeless> indeed
<lifeless> but tomorrow is a new day
<lifeless> :P
<persia> Have a good night :)
<Laney> @schedule london
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/London: 14 Oct 16:00: Server Team | 14 Oct 18:00: Kernel Team | 15 Oct 13:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 18:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 23:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-14
 * persia prepares
<amachu> persia: elkbuntu: TheMuso: lifeless: Hi every body!
<TheMuso> Hey amachu.
<TheMuso> It appears we have nobody on the agenda.
<amachu> Hi TheMuso :-)
<amachu> belutz had mailed that he might join!
<persia> Nobody on the agenda might mean a short meeting.  Did we get more thoughts on timing/composition that I missed?
<amachu> next week is the right time we take what we discussed last week on time and additional members on board to the CC!
<persia> Indeed.
<amachu> persia: not much to those what we discussed, may be TheMuso, lifeless can add their thoughts
<amachu> for yourself, me and elkbuntu three were discussing on that much!
<TheMuso> I have nothing to add. I can do earlier in the evening, but not later. However I know this affects others, so really don't know.
<persia> Or belutz or zakame
<TheMuso> All I can say is name a time, and I'll say yes or no as to whether I can do it.
<persia> TheMuso, The proposal was for 9:00 and 15:00 UTC.  Would the former work for you (on Tuesdays)?
<TheMuso> persia: 9:00UTC would suit me very nicely.
<persia> TheMuso, That's what was thought, that it would be better for those in +10 or greater, whereas 15 would be better for those in +7 or less.  Those in +8 or +9 probably find the current time very convenient.
<amachu> persia: 15.00 would suit Indian time, 9.00 might suit others better..
<amachu> persia: yes.. We need to check with belutz and zakame
<amachu> let me check for the participant for the day :-)
<amachu> amireldor?
<amachu> svaksha?
<amachu> stefanlsd?
<amachu> it appears none of them is here!
<TheMuso> I thought we had stefanlsd? approach us already...
<TheMuso> gah cut and paste
<amachu> should I go ahead and take names of svaksha and amireldor from the agenda for they aren't turning up for a long time? they can add themselves again when they wish to take part..
<TheMuso> amachu: I say yes.
<persia> I'd agree with that.
<amachu> fine, I will do that..
<amachu> elkbuntu: silent today?
<amachu> and lifeless: show some life ;-)
<elkbuntu> amachu, nearly forgot
<amachu> elkbuntu: hmm...
<persia> lifeless was nearly 23 hours early to the meeting, so may have become distracted.
<amachu> elkbuntu: any comments on discussions so far?
<elkbuntu> not quite caught up yet
<elkbuntu> svaksha is online
<elkbuntu> just not in here
<elkbuntu> amachu ^^
<amachu> svaksha online where?
<elkbuntu> in #ubuntu-women
<amachu> got her
<elkbuntu> amachu, you might need to be blunt
<amachu> elkbuntu: asking her!
<amachu> good! I need to mail the list asking for opinions..
<amachu> from belutz, zakame and lifeless
<amachu> if belutz and zakame can turn out to meetings regularly then we new members to the board can be re-considered..
<amachu> but I will mail first..
<elkbuntu> i'd still like to see more on the board
<amachu> Ok!
<persia> I'm happy with the current board number if we don't have two meetings.  If we have two meetings, I want 9 comprised of 3 from the east, 3 from the west, and 3 from the middle.
<elkbuntu> because even if belutz and zakame can turn out more reguarly, we've still got a high chance of not having the quorum
<elkbuntu> which i believe is the same as what persia believes
<persia> Yes.
<elkbuntu> hi svaksha_, good to see you active.
<amachu> persia: that sounds good to me too...
<svaksha_> elkbuntu: i was never inactive, silent yes
<elkbuntu> svaksha_, the word 'see' is the key
<svaksha_> amachu asked if i was applying so for the record, i am not applying for reactivating the expired membership
<persia> svaksha_, You're applying for new membership, or not applying at all?
<svaksha_> persia: my membership expired in Aug, and i was thinking of reapplying (or whatever you call it) but i think i can volunteer  without  it too right?
<elkbuntu> of course. else nobody would even *get* to membership ;)
<amachu> svaksha_: you can.
<persia> svaksha_, Certainly.  You're welcome to help without membership.  As a member, you get an email address, the right to carry business cards, and other benefits.
<amachu> svaksha_: as said, ï»¿ we were discussing removing your entry and amireldor's from the agenda for they were present for quite some time! and if you wish you can add yourself later..
<svaksha_> persia: :)
<svaksha_> amachu: sure
<amachu> and We would be glad to see you back, if you aren't taking it up today..
<svaksha_> :)
<amachu> are you or not?
<svaksha_> amachu: 13:28 < svaksha_> persia: my membership expired in Aug, and i was thinking of reapplying (or whatever you call it) but i think i can volunteer  without  it  too right?
<svaksha_> amachu: not today
<persia> svaksha_, Indeed.  So, we're going to remove you from the agenda, and you can add it back if you want to reapply at a later time.
 * svaksha_ nods
<persia> amachu, Do we have any other agenda items?
<amachu> svaksha_: Ok. Keep contributing :-)
<amachu> persia: No
<amachu> elkbuntu: TheMuso: any other thing which you would like to discuss?
<TheMuso> Not from me.
<TheMuso> I've actually gotta run I'm affraid.
<elkbuntu> can i discuss sleep? :Ã
<Hobbsee> elkbuntu: no.  Sleep is forbidden.
<elkbuntu> :(
<TheMuso> so till later folks, and thanks/
<persia> discussing sleep is pointless.  Good night :)
<elkbuntu> cyas
<lifeless> erg
<lifeless> hai
<Hobbsee> lifeless: and you missed it again.  But you were closer this time!
<lifeless> Hobbsee: :(
<persia> lifeless, What's your opinion on splitting the meeting and adding more members?
<lifeless> persia: do you mean committee members?
<persia> Yes.
<persia> 3/3/3 and 9:00/15:00
<lifeless> I think its a bit hard to service france and argentina at the moment :P
<persia> Yeah, well, there is that :)
<lifeless> but we rarely have so many applicants that we have to defer some
<lifeless> so, other than being nice times for me, I don't see much motivation to change
<lifeless> perhaps west asia is a little under-available time slot wise though
<persia> Well, being nice times for all the other people in places like India, East Australia, and New Zealand.
<lifeless> yah
<persia> Personally, I think picking nice times for us (within the prescription of "evening") is the best way to service the region.
<lifeless> asia is so damn wide
<lifeless> its a bad way to assess time zone availability IMNSHO.
<persia> I suppose.  I don't think of "Asia" as wide, but I don't think of Australia as part of "Asia".
<persia> That makes it similar in width to London <-> Petersberg or Sao Paulo <-> Mountain View
<lifeless> anyhow +1 on better times for the committee; if that makes it unavilable reasonably to folk in the nominated zone, then a separate committee to cover that region is needed IMO
<lifeless> what tz is turkey?
<persia> +3 or +4 I think.
<persia> +3
<persia> (but DST may apply)
<persia> I'd claim that we're only responsible for +5 to +13 or so, but that's my personal opinon.
<persia> (hrm, does NZ have a +13:15 at certain times of year, or does it only go up to +12:45?)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Server Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team
 * kirkland waves o/
 * mathiaz waves o//
<zul> hello
<nealmcb> o/
<Koon> o--
<mathiaz> welcome to the 33919023th edition of the Ubuntu Server Team meeting !
<nxvl> \o\ /o/ \o\ /o/
<mathiaz> let's get the show started
<mathiaz> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is mathiaz.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<persia> It's not that.  It's about the 40th.  I may have lost count along the way, but not by that much.
<mathiaz> Today's agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<mathiaz> Last week's minutes: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20081007
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Bacula SRU
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bacula SRU
<mathiaz> zul: ^?
<nxvl> persia: don't make us lose the joy
<mathiaz> zul: I think it has been published?
<zul> mathiaz: uploaded not accepted afaik yet
<zul> ill bug pitti about it
<mathiaz> zul: ok.
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ServerGuide for Intrepid
<mathiaz> sommer: anything new?
<mathiaz> ok - noone is there - moving on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] KVM
<MootBot> New Topic:  KVM
<mathiaz> kirkland: what's the update on virtio bugs?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm chasing down the virtio disk bug
<mathiaz> kirkland: there were two bugs: one related to network and one related to block device
<kirkland> mathiaz: looks to be grub geometry
<mathiaz> kirkland: IIRC the network virtio bug is fixed
<kirkland> mathiaz: the disk geometry for virtio disks is wrong in grub
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm checking if any of the other distros have solved that yet
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - that may point to an issue with kvm on the host
<sommer> mathiaz: sorry, nothing new :)
<mathiaz> kirkland: or an issue with the kernel guest
<mathiaz> sommer: ok - I'll try to send an update to the support section
<kirkland> mathiaz: i was concentrating on the guest
<mathiaz> kirkland: if this is an issue with the guest kernel we may be hit by the kernel freeze
<nealmcb> this one? https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/281492
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281492 in grub "grub does not install properly to a virtio disk in kvm (/dev/vda)" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<mathiaz> kirkland: that is scheduled for this thursday
<mathiaz> nealmcb: yes
<kirkland> mathiaz: i may need to employ some additional expertise on this
<mathiaz> kirkland: let's assume we are not able to fix grub in time
<mathiaz> kirkland: what are the options?
<mathiaz> kirkland: should we emit a warning? add some code to check if /boot is on a vd* device?
<kirkland> mathiaz: tell people to install using a plain disk, and after installation is done, use a virtio disk
<mathiaz> kirkland: that means some more work to be done in the installer
<mathiaz> kirkland: or in grub-install?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i'm trying to fix it in grub, as i said
<kirkland> mathiaz: grub-install writes a borked bootloader to the disk
<kirkland> mathiaz: if we get a good bootloader on the disk, it boots fine
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - I think it's the right to try to solve the issue
<kirkland> mathiaz: but when the grub writes the bootloader to a /dev/vd* disk, it hoses the disk for booting
<kirkland> mathiaz: that's in the installer, and in runtime
<mathiaz> kirkland: However I'm wondering about contigency plan if we don't fix it in time for intrepid
<mathiaz> kirkland: right - so grub-install would be the correct place to emit a warning if it tries to write on a vd* device
<nijaba> o/
<mathiaz> kirkland: you said you'd ask for help
<kirkland> mathiaz: sure
<jdstrand> kirkland: I'm somewhat confused-- if the backup plan is to install to /dev/hda, then change to firtio *after* install, won't the next invocation of grub (eg through a kernel update), mess up the mbr (or whatever is borked)?
<mathiaz> kirkland: what kind of expertise would you require?
<mathiaz> jdstrand: I don't think so
<mathiaz> jdstrand: the next invocation of grub will just update menu.lst
<kirkland> mathiaz: i was going to ask cjwatson and aliguori, unless you can point me to someone else
<jdstrand> mathiaz: good point
<mathiaz> jdstrand: however it would break the boot loader if grub itself was updated
<jdstrand> mathiaz: or if the user played with grub-install manually
<mathiaz> kirkland: I don't think of anyone else - it seems to be kernel related somehow
<mathiaz> jdstrand: correct.
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - it seems you've some ressource to get things moving
<mathiaz> kirkland: however keep in mind the kernel freeze on thursday
<kirkland> mathiaz: I'm trying
<mathiaz> kirkland: on thursday we may need to see if we should try to keep fixing grub or go with a contigency plan since it will be hard to fix the kernel if necessary
<mathiaz> kirkland: other than this bug, is there anything else on kvm?
<kirkland> mathiaz: have you verified the virtio networking fix?
<mathiaz> kirkland: yes - it's working from me in a hardy host
<mathiaz> kirkland: and on your side?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i would like to mirror your test
<mathiaz> kirkland: on a intrepid host?
<kirkland> mathiaz: i could not get it working on Friday, but i think my invocation or setup might have been wrong
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - I'll outline my test after the meeting
<kirkland> mathiaz: thanks
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to explain his virtio network test to kirkland
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to explain his virtio network test to kirkland
<mathiaz> kirkland: anything on the virt-manager front?
<kirkland> mathiaz: no
<mathiaz> kirkland: ok - thanks for the update on the virtualization front
<kirkland> mathiaz: sure
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] JeOS
<MootBot> New Topic:  JeOS
<mathiaz> nijaba: so I've got all things sorted out
<nijaba> yes, that's great.  I guess we need some testing now..
<mathiaz> nijaba: the -virtual kernels are on the -server cd and the F4 option to install a minimal virtual machine has been added to the installer
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'm going to test today's -server isos as they're the first ones shipping with the -virtual kernels
<nijaba> so we have a full intergartion of the jeos installer in the server cd, coolio
<mathiaz> nijaba: yop - however JeOS is not mentionned anywhere
<nijaba> yes, and the first time we have a 64bit kernel for -virtual
<mathiaz> nijaba: technically -virtual is just a -server kernel with a lot of modules not included
<nijaba> JeOS has never been mentionned elswhere than in the docs, so that's ok
<mathiaz> nijaba: well - JeOS was part of the iso name
<mathiaz> nijaba: and part of the product name too
<nealmcb> nijaba: ahh - 64bit kernel - nice
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes, but better safe than sorry, right ;)
<mathiaz> nijaba: I was wondering if it should be added to the F4 option some how
<nijaba> well, do not worry too much about this, I'll put plenty of explanation on the web, wiki, etc...
<nijaba> mathiaz: I think the wording you proposed is more self explanatory
<mathiaz> nijaba: "Install a minimal virtual machine"
<nijaba> JeOS seems to be confusing for some, they were often trying to install it on real hw
<nijaba> mathiaz: yes, that's really clear
 * nealmcb nods
<nijaba> mathiaz I have added a couple test cases on the server test for qa, how can I get the tests added to qa.u.c?
<mathiaz> nijaba: great - so we've got JeOS fully integrated in intrepid -server iso
<mathiaz> nijaba: they should be added by tomorrow
<mathiaz> nijaba: do we have access to ESX somewhere?
<nijaba> I tried to ping heno but did not get a reply
<nijaba> mathiaz: IS has one up and running
<nijaba> you can request access to it, I guess
<mathiaz> nijaba: hm - I don't know how
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'll ask heno or cr3 about it
<nijaba> ok, I'll email heno tonight
<mathiaz> nijaba: does JeOS support xen also?
<nijaba> nope
<mathiaz> nijaba: only ESX and kvm are supported?
<nijaba> the -virtual kernel is not a paravirt kernel
<nijaba> mathiaz: officially, yes, but it could work elsewhere
<mathiaz> nijaba: well -virtual is the -server kernel
<zul> nijaba: umm what?
<nijaba> just need a full virtualization env, not paravirt
<mathiaz> nijaba: the -virtual kernel is not a different kernel build AFAIUI
<mathiaz> nijaba: is just a sub-selection of the -server build
<nijaba> mathiaz: right, and this is the issue, AFAIK, to run it in a paravirt env, no?
<nijaba> zul: do you agree that we need a -xen kernel to run ubuntu as a paravirtualizatin guest?
<mathiaz> nijaba: I'm not sure - I'm running intrepid -server kernel as kvm guests.
<nijaba> mathiaz: kvm == full virtualization, as vmware and virtualbox
<zul> nijaba: no, you can run xen paravirt stuff with the server kernel
<mathiaz> nijaba: hm - ok
<nijaba> zul: ah, ok, so the paraviort extension made it in the plain kernel
<zul> nijaba: yep
<nijaba> coolio
<nijaba> I did not know that
<mathiaz> zul: do you have access to a xen host ?
<mathiaz> zul: in order to test JeOS in xen?
<zul> mathiaz: I can quickly
<mathiaz> nijaba: or we don't need to test on xen?
<zul> xen is in universe though
<nijaba> that would be nice if we could support it as well with -virtual
<zul> I dont think it will work with virtual though it hasnt been tested though
<nijaba> zul: xen host is, but we decided to officially support xen as a guest option for ubuntu
<zul> nijaba: interesting..
<nijaba> zul: dom0 ->  community, domU -> full maintenance
<mathiaz> nijaba: which version of xen host should we test on then?
<zul> nijaba: ok then, I just want to add the -virutal kernel needs to add the xen modules then
<nijaba> zul: I am lost, do you need extension to the kernel or not to run in a xen env as a DomU?
<zul> the extensions to the kernel, the way that it works is that it takes a list of modules from the server kernel and repackages them, afaik right now the xen block devices and network devices are not packaged with the -virtual kernel
<zul> Ill send a patch to the kernel team mailing list today to get this fixed
<mathiaz> zul: ok - so keep in mind the kernel freeze on thursday
<nijaba> zul: ah, ok, we do not have the *modules*
<nijaba> zul: so let's think about it for Jaunty
<zul> mathiaz: I can submit the patch after I go vote ;)
<nijaba> zul: too late, too risky, IMHO
<mathiaz> zul: nijaba: ok - so we don't try to support xen guest in intrepid?
<nijaba> zul: not with the virtual kernel
<mathiaz> nijaba: zul: ok - let's  move on
<mathiaz> nijaba: we can discuss that later
<nijaba> sure
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] python-vm-builder
<MootBot> New Topic:  python-vm-builder
<mathiaz> nijaba: you - again?
<nijaba> mathiaz, actually to ask you to take a look at the current trunk
<nijaba> ask you to review it and upload it if you think it is fit
<mathiaz> nijaba: I thought kees uploaded it yesterday
<nijaba> once uploaded, i need for somemone to test it a bit on xen + libvirt
<nijaba> mathiaz: nope, that was a fix kirkland did for ubuntu-virt-mgmt
<mathiaz> nijaba: ah ok then
<mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to look at sponsoring python-vm-builder
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to look at sponsoring python-vm-builder
<mathiaz> nijaba: what's the url?
 * ivoks hi
<zul> nijaba: we should get poppy's fix in there as well
<nijaba> mathiaz: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-virt/vmbuilder/trunk
<mathiaz> nijaba: thnks.
<nijaba> nope, thank you
<mathiaz> nijaba: anything else on vm-builder?
<nijaba> nope, apart from testing required...
<nijaba> I implemented some missing function to support xen, but do not have a xen host
<nijaba> zul validated that the fstab was ok, but nobody tested with libvirt
<mathiaz> ok - so it seems we'd need access to ESX and xen environment to test both JeOS and vm-builder
<nijaba> would be nice
<mathiaz> ok - let's move on
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> ivoks: so what's on your plate this week?
<ivoks> mathiaz: i've finished testing of drbd and rhcs, all fine (except one minor bug in drbd)
<ivoks> mathiaz: i plan testing bacula during this week
<mathiaz> ivoks: bacula in intrepid?
<ivoks> mathiaz: right
<ivoks> mathiaz: and if there is anything anyone needs help with, i would be glad to help
<mathiaz> ivoks: ebox testing is still on my TODO list
<ivoks> i guess squashing bugs :D
<ivoks> mathiaz: i could do that...
<zul> ivoks: if you need anything from me just poke me with a stick just not in the eye :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: and preparing a FFe request for the motu release team
<ivoks> zul: i'll poke you with a drbd patch
<nijaba> :D
<zul> ivoks: im expecting it :)
<ivoks> mathiaz: FFE for motu?
<mathiaz> ivoks: yes
<ivoks> mathiaz: for ebox?
<mathiaz> ivoks: it's a new upstream revision
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> put me in for ebox testing
<mathiaz> ivoks: so a FFe needs to be written and motu-release subscribed
<ivoks> or.. sign me in
<ivoks> mathiaz: i know
<ivoks> mathiaz: could i squeez ipmitool update into that? :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: https://launchpad.net/~ebox/+archive <- that's what needs to be reviewd and sponsored
<mathiaz> ivoks: of course :D
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> all right... lots of packages :)
<mathiaz> ivoks: but only the modules that are already in hardy need to be looked at
<ivoks> k
<mathiaz> ivoks: that's about 2/3 of the listed packages IIRC
<zul> mathiaz: are they still using courier-imap for their mail module?
<mathiaz> zul: I don't know
<pgraner> \
<mathiaz> pgraner: is the kernel team meeting now?
<mathiaz> pgraner: or in one hour?
<ivoks> in an hour, imho
<ivoks> iirc
<pgraner> mathiaz: one hour,
<mathiaz> ok
<mathiaz> anything else to add?
<pgraner> mathiaz: I typed in the wrong window :-(
<mathiaz> pgraner: I thought you were making signs... ;)
<ivoks> oh...
<ivoks> if anyone needs virtual machine for testing, let me know - i have one just for that
<pgraner> mathiaz: nope just stupidity on my part...
 * nijaba needs to part.... catching a flight...  thanks all
<ivoks> nijaba: have a good trip
<mathiaz> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time.
<nijaba> thanks ivoks
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time.
<mathiaz> same time, same place, next week?
<sommer> sure
<ivoks> ok
<ivoks> (i might be late again :/)
<mathiaz> excellent then. See you all next week, same place same time
<mathiaz> thanks for attending and happy testing!
<mathiaz> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:02.
<mathiaz> ivoks: as long as you show up for the Open Discussion topic it's all good ;)
<sommer> thanks mathiaz, later all
<ivoks> mathiaz: :D
<ivoks> mathiaz: sorry... you know, there's that nice girl and all... :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 14 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Kernel Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team
<rtg> BenC: vesafb looks good so far.
<pgraner> Hello Everyone its about time for the Kernel Team Meeting....
<pgraner> Looks like we have everyone from the Canonical side so I guess we can get started
<pgraner> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is pgraner.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Welcome Jim
<pgraner> I'd like to Welcome Jim to the kernel team as the newest Canonical hire!
<MootBot> New Topic:  Welcome Jim
<lieb> hi all
<smb_tp> Hi jim
<rtg> lieb: dood
<cking> Hi Jim, welcome!
<amitk> welcome Jim
<ogasawara> hi Jim :)
<pgraner> lieb: Glad to have you onboard!
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Intrepid Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  Intrepid Status
<pgraner> LP #254923 HPA
<pgraner> [LINK] http://lwn.net/Articles/301862/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://lwn.net/Articles/301862/
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 254923 in dmraid "dmraid doesnt work right with nforce570" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/254923
<pgraner> This bug is showing up and has folks concerned.
<BenC> pgraner: Already fixed
<pgraner> I've asked cjwatson to join and talk about what we need to do?
<pgraner> BenC: What was the fix?
<BenC> pgraner: I uploaded a new module-init-tools that sets ignore_hpa=1
<BenC> which gives us the previous behavior
<pgraner> BenC: How much grief are we going to get from upstream on that one?
<BenC> cjwatson, Keybuk and I discussed this for some time
<BenC> pgraner: no more than before, but I've agreed we need to discuss an upgrade path for ignore_hpa=0 for jaunty
<pgraner> BenC: Make sure you add that to the UDS planning page pls.
<cjwatson> so I definitely think we need to worry about it for jaunty
<BenC> Basically upgrading systems, or multi-boot systems with a kernel that has ignore_hpa=1 need to be taken care of
<cjwatson> but a lot of the work needs to be in userspace
<pgraner> [ACTION] BenC to add HPA handling to UDS planning page
<MootBot> ACTION received:  BenC to add HPA handling to UDS planning page
<cjwatson> we can't fiddle about with the contents of disks in nearly the same way in the kernel
<BenC> pgraner: ACK
<pgraner> Anything else on this one?
<pgraner> Ok, moving on then....
<pgraner> LP #261318 toshiba acpi
<pgraner> Are we doing the right thing in shipping tlsup instead of toshiba_acpi? If so, what do we need to do in order to get it working properly?
<BenC> pgraner: I will note that Keybuk disagrees with my solution being in modprobe.d instead of changing the source code in libata-core.c, but that's not relevant, IMO
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261318 in xorg "Regression: new Toshiba Laptop Support (tlsup) driver breaks Toshiba hotkeys; input device does not support 'kbd' input handler" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261318
<rtg> BenC: I got similar hassles from him this morning
<pgraner> BenC: ack, noted just add to the planning page
<pgraner> So whats up with this one?
<BenC> pgraner: first I've heard of it
 * BenC reads the bug quickly...
<pgraner> BenC: Looks like users are seeing various levels of support with the new code
<pgraner> BenC: I'll keep moving and give you the action to handle it
<pgraner> [ACTION] BenC to look into  LP #261318 toshiba acpi
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261318 in xorg "Regression: new Toshiba Laptop Support (tlsup) driver breaks Toshiba hotkeys; input device does not support 'kbd' input handler" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261318
<MootBot> ACTION received:  BenC to look into  LP #261318 toshiba acpi
<BenC> pgraner: ACK
<pgraner> LP #282700, 263782, 277795 Usplash Screen Corruuption
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282700 in linux "[Intrepid] occasional hangs with screen corruption while booting" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282700
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263782 in linux "intrepid hang with screen corruption during boot with 2.6.27-2-generic on x61" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263782
<ubottu> Bug 277795 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/277795 is private
<pgraner> I understand we are reverting to vesafb instead uvisafb, has anyone had a chance to test it yet?
<pgraner> rtg: ???
<BenC> pgraner: fix committed, rtg testing
<rtg> pgraner: its looking OK on 2 x86-64 laptops
 * Keybuk sniggers at the idea of visafb
<Keybuk> drawing on money!
<BenC> or immigration papers :)
<pgraner> rtg: can you follow up in the bug with the testing results pls?
<rtg> pgraner: can do
<pgraner> [ACTION] rtg to follow up on  LP #282700, 263782, 277795 Usplash Screen Corruuption in the bug
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rtg to follow up on  LP #282700, 263782, 277795 Usplash Screen Corruuption in the bug
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282700 in linux "[Intrepid] occasional hangs with screen corruption while booting" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282700
<pgraner> LP #267875 rf_kill switch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263782 in linux "intrepid hang with screen corruption during boot with 2.6.27-2-generic on x61" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/263782
<ubottu> Bug 277795 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/277795 is private
<ubottu> Bug 277795 on http://launchpad.net/bugs/277795 is private
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267875 in linux "rf_kill interface not available for iwl3945, iwl4965 in 2.6.27" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267875
<pgraner> rtg: how we doing on this one?
<rtg> pgraner: no progress.
<pgraner> rtg: will it make kernel freeze?
<rtg> slangasek thiks its an app space issue
<rtg> s/thiks/thinks/
<pgraner> rtg: is he working it?
<rtg> he uploaded something, though I can't recall what. pm-utils?
<slangasek> well, that wasn't my /thought/, that's what I was told
<slangasek> I uploaded the acpi-support part
<pgraner> slangasek: you have doubts?
<rtg> I'd go look at the bug but my POS fire-fox won't start.
<slangasek> *if* /sys/class/rfkill/rfkill<n>/state is the right interface, then a hal fix is still needed
<slangasek> pgraner: I always have doubts where anything under /sys is concerned :P
 * pgraner nods
<slangasek> if there were some documentation that I could beat upstream developers with later if it were changed, I'd be much happier :-)
<pgraner> slangasek: so what do we need to do to close this one out?
<rtg> I don't think rf-kill has settled down to being a stable feature yet.
<slangasek> well, in the absence of that documentation, I was going to ask pitti to look into it
<slangasek> or if he doesn't have time, tackle the hal patching myself
<pgraner> slangasek: ok I'll give you that action then?
<slangasek> sure
<rtg> slangasek: so what is HAL gonna do? unload/reload driver modules?
<slangasek> rtg: hal has to notify n-m when the rfkill has been switched
<slangasek> it did this for the old iwl interface
<pgraner> [ACTION] slangasek to look into rf_kill issue LP# 267875
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to look into rf_kill issue LP# 267875
<rtg> sends a D-BUS message?
<slangasek> yes
<pgraner> LP #220917 iwl4965 firmware
<pgraner> Have we sorted this one out yet?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 220917 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "iwl4965 firmware missing in alternate installer" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/220917
<pgraner> BenC: ???
<rtg> I think it should just unload the module 'cause most of the drivers aren't smart enough to power down.
<BenC> pgraner: Fixed partially
<BenC> pgraner: I need to split into a linux-firmware image to have a proper fix for upgrades
<BenC> pgraner: which is in-progress
<BenC> pgraner: will update bug
<pgraner> BenC: ack
<pgraner> [ACTION] BenC to update bug LP# 220917 with current status
<MootBot> ACTION received:  BenC to update bug LP# 220917 with current status
<pgraner> Moving on.... Status of wireless backport
<pgraner> rtg: What say you?
<rtg> pgraner: initial implementation is done, now I'm waiting for upstream bug fixes.
<rtg> It doesn't play well with NM
<slangasek> rtg: "just unload the module" - is that in reference to 267875?  I think that's pretty out-of-scope for this bug, which is about fixing the regression that n-m no longer knows the interface is down
<pgraner> rtg: asking the obvious, will it make kernel freeze?
<rtg> slangasek: when the modules gets unloaded, NM seems to notice.
<rtg> pgraner: likely not. the empty package is in the archive
<pgraner> rtg: thats gonna leave us with some pretty big bugs hanging
<rtg> pgraner: besides, LBM is really subject to SRU policy.
<pgraner> slangasek: you agree ^^^^^^^^^^^^^?
<slangasek> rtg: that's fine, but I'm not writing code to figure out when to re-load the modules...
<rtg> slangasek: it was just a suggestion :)
<slangasek> pgraner: I think it's fair to say that SRUs are the primary reason for LBM's existence, sure
<slangasek> and that anything that's fair to fix in LBM at all is fair to fix via SRU
<rtg> slangasek: that doesn't make sense to me.
<pgraner> rtg: when do think upstream will settle?
<slangasek> rtg: sorry, why not?
 * BenC thinks rtg and slangasek are intertwining two conversations :)
<rtg> LBM is a vehicle for porting upstream versions, which do not necessarily address SRU issues.
<slangasek> well, ok
<rtg> pgraner: upstream wireless will not converge until someone imposes some discipline on the development process.
<slangasek> let's put it this way, then: I'm not likely to feel the need to meddle with anything you tell me should go into LBM, as long as it doesn't collide with the final freeze :)
<rtg> slangasek: agreed
<pgraner> rtg: I was looking for for you gut feel, than a "state of upstream devel process".... jeeez
<pgraner> s/for//
<pgraner> s/you/your/
<rtg> pgraner: I don't have a gut feel, 'cause I think things are out of control.
 * pgraner needs to lay off the caffeine 
<pgraner> rtg: then I'll keep this on the tracking list for now
<pgraner> [ACTION] pgraner to follow up with rtg on state of wireless backport
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to follow up with rtg on state of wireless backport
<rtg> the out-of-box experience will mostly be ok if you're using a mainstream wireless adapter, and don't try to do anything funny.
<pgraner> rtg: ack
<pgraner> LP #262564 Wrong Copyright file in pkg
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 262564 in linux-restricted-modules "copyright file is incorrect" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/262564
<pgraner> BenC: you squash this one yet?
<BenC> pgraner: fixed and uploaded
<BenC> "Fix released"
<pgraner> BenC: nice
<pgraner> Anyone have any other pet bugs they would like to add here?
<pgraner> Going once.....
<pgraner> Going twice...
<pgraner> Going three times.....
<pgraner> Moving on....
<pgraner> [TOPIC] QA Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Bugs
<pgraner> [LINK] http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/intrepid-buglist.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogasawara/intrepid-buglist.html
<ogasawara> I've frozen the buglist for now
<ogasawara> all bugs which I feel need to be addressed I'll ping the team directly
<ogasawara> or bring them up here in the meeting
<pgraner> ogasawara: can you make sure all bugs are assigned to an individual rather than the kernel-team?
<ogasawara> pgraner: sure
<pgraner> [ACTION] ogasawara to make sure  all bugs are assigned to an individual
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ogasawara to make sure  all bugs are assigned to an individual
<pgraner> ogasawara: anything you want to say about individual bugs now? or can we move on?
<ogasawara> I think we're good, move on
<pgraner> ogasawara: ack
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<pgraner> We got a question from mnuckfish on the Future of the linux-ports kernels
<pgraner> Can we keep ports in sync with the official Ubuntu kernel in Jaunty? Like lpia does now?
<pgraner> Is there anyone that cares about ia64 (currently FTBFS), sparc, hppa?
<munckfish> Hi folks
<munckfish> I just wanted to get an idea what the intention was for the future of the ports kernels
<pgraner> BenC: thoughts?
<BenC> pgraner: In jaunty I hope to be able to devote some time to those ports
<munckfish> they use the 2.6.25 source right now
<smb_tp> I looked at the ia64 FTBA and since it is only ABI stuff would care about that
<BenC> pgraner: part of the reason for doing it this way in intrepid is that we knew we were going to be hard pressed to handle just x86 and x86-64
<munckfish> BenC: how come things will be easier in Jaunty?
<BenC> munckfish: we have more people on the canonical kernel team, and more experience, so I might have free time :)
<amitk> pgraner: It is kinda hard to support these without necessary hardware to test with - who has a hppa, ia64 machine?
<munckfish> BenC: sounds good
<lieb> I do
<pgraner> BenC: I wouldn't go that far
<BenC> amitk: I do
<BenC> I have one of everything
<lieb> although the power bill has been half since the 'tanic has been off...
<BenC> pgraner: well, there's a better chance in jaunty than there was in intrepid
<pgraner> BenC: possibly, however we have assumed other workloads as well.
<munckfish> well this is positive I really wasn't sure whether the general feeling towards ports was to let them die
<BenC> lieb: sounds good, maybe we can both give it a little love
<BenC> munckfish: as pgraner is pointing out, there's no guarantee though
<pgraner> BenC: we can discuss at UDS when we are all together, I'm not opposed but we need to see what the cost is vs. everything else on the plate along with Jaunty features
<munckfish> BenC: well that's ok, I'm happy to do any leg work I can - as I've done for Intrepid
<amitk> so let me play devils advocated here: how many people use the ia64 and hppa ports?
<BenC> amitk: probably 5-10 people
<BenC> if that many
<amitk> *advocate
<munckfish> What about powerpc?
<BenC> ppc is pretty well used by the community, just not very well supported by it
<persia> ia64 is interesting to keep because it helps resolve a number of 64-bit code issues (it does 64-bit differently than amd64)
<BenC> I would say ppc is lead only by x86/x86-64
<BenC> persia: so does sparc
<persia> BenC, Hrm.  Good point.  I should look there instead.
<BenC> but then it isn't 64-bit userspace
<BenC> except for a few bits
<pgraner> BenC: IBM has been asking the server team for official support, we need to check with them to see if we can get IBM to help out for power
 * amitk agrees with ppc, considering that PS3 will be available for the next 5-7 years
<BenC> pgraner: IBM bought me a power5 box, so I feel somewhat obligated to help out
<BenC> even if it is in my own time
<munckfish> Wow, so there's a chance it may become official again?
<pgraner> [ACTION] pgraner to set up talk with server team on PPC support
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to set up talk with server team on PPC support
<BenC> but an officially supported power (or even better CBE) port would be nice
<munckfish> very nice
<pgraner> munckfish: we need to see internally if its something thats worth while or not
<pgraner> munckfish: are you did this answer your questons?
<pgraner> s/questons/questions/
<munckfish> Yes, second question was about staying in sync
<BenC> munckfish: up for discussion at UDS
<munckfish> amitk's LPIA tree
<BenC> maybe we can look into putting some of the more stable ports back into the main kernel tree
<munckfish> is that likely a good way to do things for ports/
<munckfish> ?
<munckfish> BenC: ok understood
<BenC> IMO, ia64 and hppa should be left external to our tree
<munckfish> btw folks Intrepid is running nicely on PS3 now bar one install bug - so thx for all the help, advice, and patience you've all offered in these last months
<BenC> munckfish: excellent...guess it's time to upgrade mine :)
<pgraner> Any other open topics ?????
<rtg> slangasek: is there anything holding up the transition to -updates of the Hardy kernel in -proposed ?
<slangasek> I haven't been tracking it, sorry; pitti would be better able to answer
<smb_tp> I have to get back on him on that
<slangasek> I know we had one purported regression, which I believe I saw was ironed out
<rtg> slangasek: ok. kees is hot to publish CVEs
<pgraner> [ACTION] smb_tp to get with pitti on Hardy -updates
<MootBot> ACTION received:  smb_tp to get with pitti on Hardy -updates
<smb_tp> In case hardy doesn't get into updates, there might be a split release but getting hardy as well would be preferred
<smb_tp> pgraner, ack
<pgraner> Anything else?
<pgraner> Ok moving on then...
<pgraner> [TOPIC] Lightening Round
<MootBot> New Topic:  Lightening Round
<pgraner> I'll go first...
<pgraner> I'll be in London for release week.
<pgraner> Working with the other teams on late breaking kernel issues. So if I ping you or ask status, please be kind. thats about it.
<pgraner> timg: ???
<rtg> heads down, boss.
<pgraner> rtg: just what I like to hear :-)
<pgraner> rtg: I think we covered most of your stuff above...
<rtg> yep - I've no other topics
<pgraner> BenC: how about you?
<BenC> pretty much the same...finishing up the stuff we discussed on the bug list, and starting on some of the new action items from this meeting
<pgraner> BenC: by my box score you walked away with most of the actions... anything else in the queue ?
<pgraner> BenC: any concerns for kernel freeze?
<BenC> pgraner: none of the moment
<BenC> /sof/at/
<pgraner> BenC: ack
<pgraner> amitk: what say you?
<amitk> Been busy keeping the lpia kernel up-to-date. Next week will be spent improving out-of-box support for some of the mobile devices we care about.
<amitk> samsung q1 and jax10 being the main ones
<pgraner> amitk: any concerns ?
<amitk> no.. looking good.
<pgraner> smb_tp: you're turn...
<smb_tp> Work towards CVE release, fix ports ia64 FTBS, expect to get buried by Leann in bug reports...
<pgraner> smb_tp: at least ogasawara is kind, she could really be mean about it
<rtg> BenC: I think we should roll a kernel today and get the vesafb change propagated.
<smb_tp> pgraner, I don't dare to say something else ;) She's too close
 * ogasawara moves smb_tp to the top of her list :)
<pgraner> smb_tp: I know!
<pgraner> cking: how goes it?
<cking> Supporting OEM team - plenty of BIOS and embedded controller issues to resolve
<pgraner> cking: your getting pretty good what that DSDT stuff?
<cking> well - I'm very comfortable at seeing bugs in DSTD / AML code now :-)
<pgraner> cking: we can give you a bag of chicken bones and some magic dust if it would help?
<cking> - yeah - I think voodoo + magic is required
<pgraner> lieb: I would guess you don't have much other than new guy tasks... ?
<smb_tp> Especially if it comes to interpret 4 letter variables...
<lieb> yup
<BenC> rtg: agreed
<lieb> that too
<pgraner> [ACTION] BenC to roll new kernel with vesafb changes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  BenC to roll new kernel with vesafb changes
<rtg> BenC: lemme redo a wireless patch for ipw220, then I can upload it (unless you have something?)
<BenC> rtg: have at it
<pgraner> [ACTION] rtg to roll new kernel with vesafb changes and other "stuff"
<MootBot> ACTION received:  rtg to roll new kernel with vesafb changes and other "stuff"
<rtg> on it...
<pgraner> Ok folks our time is about up, anything else?
<smb_tp> no
<persia> I'm curious if anyone was able to review the -rt kernel, and if it needed work.
<pgraner> Anyone?
<rtg> persia: it now builds ok, but I haven't run it.
<BenC> I tried a couple weeks ago to port the -rt patchset to 2.6.27 and gave up after manually merging > 100 patches of some 4-500
<BenC> is it based on 2.6.27?
<persia> BenC, abogani completed the porting.
<persia> Yes.
<BenC> more power to him then
<rtg> it actually build depends on 2.6.27.
<rtg> uses quilt to apply the patches
<persia> I've been told that's what upstream for -rt is doing.
<BenC> that's what I was working on when it was based on .26
<BenC> easy to work with
<rtg> yeah - I thought it was an elegant way to do it.
<persia> abogani was wondering if there was a chance of a l-r-m-source package to do the same for l-r-m, or whether he'd have to copy the l-r-m source to do it as well.
<pgraner> Anything else?
<BenC> persia: > #ubuntu-kernel
<pgraner> Ok, we are need to get outta here. I'll call it end of meeting.
<pgraner> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:57.
<pgraner> Thanks everyone
<amitk> bye all
<BenC> bye
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Oct 12:30: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java
<ubunup> am i right in this chat when i use to talk ubuntu caus i just installed it 2 ohours ago
<cjwatson> ubunup: this channel is for meetings (as in organised meetings) among Ubuntu teams; #ubuntu, please
<ubunup> o sry thx
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-15
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: ubuntu-us-pa LoCo Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board
<cjwatson> good afternoon
<calc> hi
 * slangasek waves
<TheMuso> Greetings.
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:01. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<evand> hi
<ArneGoetje> hi
<liw> hi
<cjwatson> asac,bryce_,doko,james_w: ping
<doko> pong
<james_w> hi, sorry I'm late
<bryce_> heya
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<cjwatson> doko: this was just yours: doko to write up release notes item about Java bytecode generation
<asac> hi
<doko> cjwatson: ouch, will do it today
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> [ACTION] doko to write up release notes item about Java bytecode generation (carried over)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  doko to write up release notes item about Java bytecode generation (carried over)
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Targeted bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Targeted bugs
<cjwatson> otherwise, the above is about the only thing I care about right now :-)
<cjwatson> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs
<cjwatson> we got that number down by about 15 last night, in a collective (though uncoordinated) effort
<calc> i believe i got my targeted bugs taken care of last night :)
<cjwatson> at this point we have to start figuring out which items on the list we simply can't do in time and should be deferred, and which need more effort
<cjwatson> calc: I saw, thank you
<cjwatson> so let's do a quick pass down everything relevant to this team
<cjwatson> the template approvals are in progress; ArneGoetje, do you have an update there?
<ArneGoetje> I think all important ones have been approved and are either already imported or waiting for import.
 * cjwatson looks at the needs-review queue
<cjwatson> 1  â 50  of 7783 results
<cjwatson> meep
<ArneGoetje> .pot files are the templates
<asac> ArneGoetje: template approval == what needs to be done before a package can be translated/exported in rosetta?
<ArneGoetje> asac: yes
<cjwatson> oh yes, I can filter to only pot files
<ArneGoetje> there are about 50 pot files left which need approval. For some I would need some help to decide what to de with them, if anyone can shed some light on those, please contact me after the meeting.
<cjwatson> the only remaining ones that look relevant are elisa, kscreensaver, gtk2-engines, gnutls26, epiphany-extensions, gnome-control-center, software-properties, and I'm not sure about ooo-build.pot (calc?)
<liw> a system-cleaner with a .pot was uploaded today, is that relevant?
<cjwatson> the approved import queue is getting through several thousand a day and *may* be finished by RC
<calc> i haven't done a openoffice.org-l10n update in a while so haven't worried with it
<cjwatson> calc: isn't that needed?
<ArneGoetje> what we need to know for approval is the final .mo file name for each .pot file.
<cjwatson> calc: or have none of the localised strings changed recently?
<cjwatson> liw: I didn't see it in the needs-review queue (though I might have missed it)
<calc> cjwatson: well aiui would require changing how the export/import is done now with new lp release and since we were very close to freeze i didn't want to break anything
<slangasek> "may be finished by RC" - what needs to happen in jaunty to ensure that the importing is done on schedule?
<cjwatson> calc: you mean due to the queue being very slow, or because things have been rearranged?
<calc> cjwatson: well both really, but yes there was a recent change to not look in the debian dir anymore
<cjwatson> slangasek: I've had a conversation with Jeroen Vermeulen about this, and we've agreed that jaunty translations can open as part of the general jaunty opening process
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> slangasek: the problem was essentially that neither he nor I realised that the other was waiting for us
<cjwatson> so I take responsibility for that screw-up
<cjwatson> we've explained things to each other and now I think know what to do
<cjwatson> and I've added an item to NewReleaseCycleProcess
<slangasek> ok, great :)
<cjwatson> calc: I'm mostly worried about what the effect of this is - does this mean that there'll be unlocalised strings? presumably any changes made in Rosetta will have no effect?
<cjwatson> and do we have any opportunity to do anything about this post-release, without having to reupload all of OOo?
<asac> uploading templates and tranlsations manually works too afaik
<slangasek> asac: except that OOo doesn't use gettext .mo files
<slangasek> OTOH, I think they have pretty thorough upstream translations?
<asac> slangasek: well. but whatever gets uploaded by the built should be uploadable manually
<calc> cjwatson: probably so, see my comment in the email about 2.4.2 that would be a good time to do it if we can
<slangasek> asac: "uploadable manually" == "reupload of openoffice.org-l10n" <shrug>
<asac> ok. if its not integrated with rosetta in any way, then probably yes.
<cjwatson> calc: mm, I'm cautious about relying on that
<cjwatson> there may not be a good answer here, given the translation import problems
<calc> ok
<calc> if we do decide to go that route it would need to be thoroughly tested
<cjwatson> we'll have to move on, conscious of time
<cjwatson> bryce_: 278963 looks like it may be fixed by the new fglrx - have you had much feedback on that yet?
<cjwatson> bryce_: also, should we wontfix 185311 for intrepid? I don't think we have much opportunity to do anything about it now
<liw> cjwatson, I'll re-test the upgrade with current packages tonight
<cjwatson> liw: thanks
<cjwatson> I'm interested in fglrx feedback in general, since the new fglrx is something we didn't think we were going to be able to get and then came through at the 11th hour
<bryce_> cjwatson: we were just talking about 278963 last night
<asac> i can test fglrx if its supposed to work again
<bryce_> we've laid out some plans to retest upgrades, now that we can.
<asac> bryce_: anything particular i should test? or just "does it work", "can you play quake" :)
<bryce_> for 185311 - yeah, won'tfix is probably going to be necessary
<cjwatson> bryce_: 185311> please do that then
<cjwatson> evand: did you make any progress on 270423?
<bryce_> asac, right, just go through an upgrade and make sure the graphics driver works smoothly through the process
<asac> bryce_: what do you mean "go through an upgrade"?
<asac> bryce_: i am running latest intrepid. do i need to start from hardy?
<evand> cjwatson: no, unfortunately I can no longer reproduce it.
<cjwatson> I know I could at the time, I suppose I can give it another try
<bryce_> bug 278963 is in regards to crashes during upgrade from hardy to intrepid; so the testing we need on that bug is upgrade testing.  If you're already upgraded, don't worry about it :-)
<evand> I've tried the KDE image I had, plus the latest i386 and amd64 images.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278963 in fglrx-installer "fglrx kernel module crashes system hard during hardy to intrepid upgrade" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278963
<evand> several times, at that.
<evand> ok
<asac> bryce_: ok ... dont count on me then ;)
<bryce_> asac: of course any general testing on -fglrx is appreciated, but I think at this point we're pretty content with it
<asac> yeah. will do that ;)
<cjwatson> asac: what's the current consensus on 259157?
<mvo> cjwatson: fglrx> I installed it today and it works ok on my r500 based card
<asac> cjwatson: orinoco: still not a single voice about whether it works or not. for athXk its mixed feedback
<cjwatson> james_w has posted some patches to 274076 which look like they should do the trick
<cjwatson> asac: more worried about athXk at this point
<ogra> asac, you need someone with orinoco card ?
<asac> cjwatson: but i dont see that we could do anything in NM for athXk anyway
<cjwatson> asac: should the NM task remain open?
<asac> cjwatson: the 0.6.6 workaround was to use the wpasupplicant madwifi
 * ogra has an old pcmcia silver orinoco
<asac> module ... but we dont even have that anymore and its unknown how that behaves with current ath drivers
<asac> cjwatson: imo it can be closed. only thing we could do on NM side would be hacks for orinoco
<asac> but i dont have any feedback for that. i will open a separate bug for orinoco i guess
<asac> and close the other for NM
<cjwatson> thanks, just want to keep the list well-gardened
<cjwatson> bryce_: another set of X bugs: 207881 (intel), 264462 (ati), 261977 (nv/server), 281308 (metapackages)
<cjwatson> TheMuso: 204272 pulseaudio bug with duplicate list of death
<asac> cjwatson: for intel wifi i am quite concerned about bug 193970 ... basically it means that rfkill switch is broken for all ipw3/4 intel chipsets
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 193970 in linux-ubuntu-modules-2.6.24 "iwl3945 | iwl4965: Wireless can't be activated after disabling kill switch" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/193970
<asac> which is a regression over hardy
<bryce_> 207881 is said to be fixed now by the O.R.  I just need to tie up some loose ends and close it.
<bryce_> 264462 we're waiting on upstream; something HW-specific, but -radeonhd works
<bryce_> 261977 Timo is working on and has a solution to brute force it to work
<bryce_> 281308 looks like user confusion; probably not-a-bug.  I'll review/close/update.
<slangasek> asac: that doesn't seem like the right bug number for a regression vs. hardy?
<asac> slangasek: well. maybe it was reopened
<ogra> asac, works fine for me
<asac> ogra: ipw3 or ipw4?
<ogra> 4965
<ogra> driver seems to be iwlagn
<asac> ogra: strange. doesnt work here :) ... lets talk about that in -devel ;)
<slangasek> asac: ok, I think whoever reopened that bug did so by mistake, and that they should have either opened a new bug, or followed up to bug #267875, which I just fixed :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267875 in hal "rf_kill interface not available for iwl3945, iwl4965 in 2.6.27" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267875
<ogra> yeah
<cjwatson> asac: Jerone Young pointed out a laptop-mode-tools bug the other day due to the iwl4965->iwlagn renaming; I wonder if that was related
<cjwatson> that was bug 275162
<asac> slangasek: thanks. thats the right one then.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275162 in laptop-mode-tools "[PATCH] wireless-iwl-power will need update for 2.6.27" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275162
<cjwatson> (I hoovered up the patch)
<slangasek> er, the bug state on 193970 is quite a mess :/
<cjwatson> evand: 282037, 150872, 180309, 272318 are mostly yours
<evand> hooray
 * evand digs quickly
<cjwatson> TheMuso: 274124 is the other pulseaudio problem - I saw some IRC discussion there earlier, what's the current state?
<evand> 282037> grub-installer change is still outstanding for alternate installs, but the code for desktop installs is present and working in ubiquity
<evand> 150872> Still need to rework the patch to suit your concerns.  Working on that today.
<TheMuso> cjwatson: Ideally what we need to do is to get pulse to try and connect to the sound card again if it fails the first time, and a new client wishes to play audio, however I haven't located the code which does that yet. I'm still working out the pulse code to the point where I know what needs changing yet.
<evand> 180309> Might have to defer.  Though I'll try to get this in quickly.
<TheMuso> cjwatson: As shown in the bug, I have an idea on how we can reduce the possibility of the race condition occuring, but as slangasek points out, it doesn't get rid of it entirely.
<evand> 272318> Haven't had a chance to take a hard look at it yet.  Will do today.
<slangasek> TheMuso: do you think you can have a fix for that ready for upload today/tomorrow?
<TheMuso> slangasek: What, to reduce the race, or to fix pulseaudio as discussed?
<slangasek> (the fix to have it retry the sink when a new client connection comes in)
<TheMuso> slangasek: No. I am still getting my head around the code. Help is appreciated.
<cjwatson> I'm going to skip the rest of the list for time reasons (and to allow time for AOB), but I hope you get the idea: please, please look through https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs for anything that's related to your areas of expertise (or even just things nobody else is picking up)
<slangasek> my cycles are spoken for; if nobody else volunteers, I suggest that we upload the Xsession.d fix after all
<cjwatson> I'd also appreciate it if people could set priorities for the undecided items on the list; I tried to do some of that last night but it needs more work
<bryce_> will do
<cjwatson> sorry, I mean importance
<cjwatson> nothing should be targeted without having an importance set
<cjwatson> ok, that's enough of that
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<bryce_> yay -fglrx
<cjwatson> indeed
<calc> well this is the last meeting some of us will be in, i will be moving to desktop next monday
<cjwatson> oh, absolutely, I forgot about that
<calc> iirc asac as well
<asac> oh right.
<asac> ;)
<ArneGoetje> me too
<cjwatson> and bryce
<cjwatson> good luck to all of you!
<asac> thanks all for the great time ;)
 * calc hugs the old crew ;-)
<evand> best of luck!
<TheMuso> Good luck gus.
<cjwatson> I'll be speaking with Scott to bring him up to date on things
<TheMuso> guys
<cjwatson> may be speaking with various of you as well of course
<calc> we'll be reporting to this Keybuk guy for a while :)
<calc> heh
<james_w> good luck
<cjwatson> and we shall be welcoming mvo next week, and Keybuk at some point after that
<cjwatson> it's all so complicated
<liw> you all have fun in the new team, and may your power buttons never break
<leoquant> @schedule
<ubottu> Schedule for Etc/UTC: 15 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board
 * mvo waves
<slangasek> and keep in touch, guys :)
<cjwatson> ok, then I think we're done
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:51.
<asac> thanks all
<evand> thanks!
<liw> thank you
<james_w> thanks
<ArneGoetje> thanks
<calc> thanks
<TheMuso>  Good, sleep time again. :)
<TheMuso> Thanks.
 * bryce_ waves
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: QA Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board
<bdmurray> Hello
<pedro_> hey hey
<ara> hey!
<heno> hello!
<schwuk> hi
<mrooney> hello!
<intellectronica> hya
<heno> cr3, sbeattie: QA meeting ping
<heno> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is heno.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<sbeattie> hey
<heno> welcome everyone!
 * cgregan waves
<cr3> heno: hello
<heno> agenda as usual: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/Meetings
<heno> Tomorrow we will be in final freeze
<heno> which covers RC and final
<heno> here are the main milestone bugs https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs?field.milestone=1326
<heno> (there is also a target of opportunity list at https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+bugs)
<heno> are there any bugs people know of that should be added to those lists?
<heno> this would be a good time to promote those
<mrooney> heno: I wonder about https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/145360
<ubottu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Launchpad: The read operation timed out (https://launchpad.net/bugs/145360/+text)
 * ara reads the list
<davmor21> hello
<mrooney> We seem to be getting a couple me-toos on compiz crashes on fresh installs or upgrades daily.
<heno> mvo: ^ that's not milestoned. is that because it's been difficult to reproduce?
<mvo> heno: yes
<mvo> I looked at it myself and talked to upstream
<heno> mvo: any hint that it's hw specific ?
<mvo> I suspect its something that is either triggered during a session shutdown
<heno> if so could we try to reproduce it in Montreal?
<mvo> or that its something that is triggered during a upgrade, i.e. old compiz gets upraded to newer (abi incompatible) compiz
 * cr3 addes #145360 to his list
<mvo> the backtrace is really impossible to hit with the code
<mrooney> I think mvo's comment #54 is pretty dead on, it happens after login but with no apparent effect, and it seems to happen just once or perhaps in a subsequent login and then doesn't happen again, until perhaps another update
<mvo> so it must be a memory corruption
<davmor21> mvo: i got to run an upgrade tomorrow on request so i can check for you then
<mvo> of some sort, e.g. triggered by oddness with the plugin loading or unloading
<mvo> davmor21: that would be excellent
<mvo> davmor21: could you check /var/crash before the inital reboot?
<heno> it seems that it's just a crash report (perhaps there was a crash at some point) but that compiz mostly works and no data is lost -> so it should not block release, but may be a target of opportunity if we can reproduce it
<mvo> heno: my view exactly. its *old* too
<davmor21> np's
<heno> great, so we have davmor2 and cr3 offering to try reproducing
<heno> any other issues people see?
<mrooney> mvo: I think it may have been incorrectly duped with an old bug, I am not sure I would trust the original bug, I would look at recent dupes instead
<mvo> mrooney: the trouble with this is that I can not get the new backtraces
<schwuk> mvo: I've seen it as well (happened either yesterday or monday after my daily update)
<ara> has anybody experienced this in intrepid? seahorse does not store WEP passwords by default anymore
<mvo> mrooney: the retracer does not show them it seems
<sbeattie> bug 275233 crops up a lot, but may be directly related to bug 274124 which Luke is at least working to reduce the race condition, if not eliminate it.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 275233 in libcanberra "canberra-gtk-play crashed with SIGSEGV in pa_operation_unref()" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/275233
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274124 in alsa-plugins "Race condition in pulseaudio loading for GNOME session" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/274124
<mvo> schwuk: does the timestamp of the crashfile (roughtly) match your logout time?
<heno> sbeattie: I've asked TheMuso to join us
<heno> ara: is there a bug # for that?
<ara> heno: I haven't found any, that's why I am asking
<schwuk> mvo: yes, and I got the notification after logging back in
<heno> cr3: do we have hw with a VIA 8237 sound card?
<heno> as referenced in the alsa-plugin bug
<cr3> heno: checking...
<cr3> heno: yep, looks like it. I'll add 274124 to my list
<mvo> schwuk: could you please check what compiz bits got upgraded (and from what version to what version?). if you used update-manager then synaptic file/history will tell you
<heno> hm, seems to affect intel cards too though
<heno> cr3: thanks
<heno> ok, let's get back to this if Luke joins us later
<heno> any other bugs before we move on?
<sbeattie> did the manual partitioning bug get fixed?
<schwuk> mvo: AFAICT, none
<davmor2> mvo: any joy with the screensaver bug?
<heno> there will be a need to test some of these fixes as they land
<mvo> davmor2: yes, we have a fix that can be applied that will workaround the problem
<mvo> davmor2: not ideal, but will work
<heno> in the past we have tracked them here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/ISO/FixValidation
<cjwatson> sbeattie: should be
<cjwatson> that was bug 280900
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280900 in ubiquity "Intrepid daily-live won't install from desktop using manual partitioning" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280900
<heno> pedro_: you did some coordination of that last time, can you update the page for intrepid?
<davmor2> ara: mine stored wep fine it was wpa that fell out a couple of times but that seemed to clear up
<pedro_> heno: yup, i'll do it
<cjwatson> sbeattie: one tester said it boots up veeeeeeeeeery sloooooooooowly for him now but that can't be anything to do with ubiquity
<heno> I guess we just populate it with the milestone lists to start with
<ara> davmor2: ok, weird, then
<pedro_> alright
<davmor2> schwuk: you got intrepid on your lappy right?
<heno> and anyone who can hang around in #ubuntu-testing and hep with validation testing requests - that would be great
<davmor2> cjwatson: I'll try it tomorrow it's worked for me each time I've done a manually install
<schwuk> davmor2: YEP
<heno> [TOPIC] iso.qa.ubuntu.com updates
<MootBot> New Topic:  iso.qa.ubuntu.com updates
<sbeattie> davmor2: I hit it last night
<heno> stgraber: around?
<heno> I added a JeOS request today
<davmor2> sbeattie: I'll try it now infact
<sbeattie> heno: yay! I knew I forgot something that needed to be removed.
<sbeattie> davmor2: I'm trying again as well.
<davmor2> sbeattie: you on hw or vm?
<sbeattie> vm, but the disk has existing partitions.
<heno> looks like the Mythubuntu and mobile/mid items are blocked on writing cases
<sbeattie> heno: related, can you give me an action item to drop jeos and add the netboot isos to the dl-iso script?
<heno> [ACTION] sbeattie to to drop jeos and add the netboot isos to the dl-iso script
<MootBot> ACTION received:  sbeattie to to drop jeos and add the netboot isos to the dl-iso script
<sbeattie> tnx
<davmor2> sbeattie: the size of the netboot isos and the amount it is upgraded kind makes it pointless
<heno> persia: can you help with the outstanding mobile test cases?
<sbeattie> davmor2: it's more for consistency and a reminder to look at them than for saving any bandwidth.
<davmor2> sbeattie: fair play and I do :)
<heno> ah, the log tells me he added the requests :)
<cjwatson> also the "Install a minimal virtual machine" mode on the server CD which is a direct replacement for JeOS
<heno> cjwatson: I don't see it on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Cases/ServerInstall
<heno> I'll ask njaba to write it up
<cjwatson> 's a bit new
<heno> nijaba rather ^
<heno> ok, next
<heno> [TOPIC] RC ISO testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC ISO testing
<heno> Obviously, please prime your rsync caches, refresh your supply of blank CDs, etc.
<heno> we'll probably see testable CDs Monday-ish
<heno> davmor2: will you be doing some smoke testing running up to that?
<heno> can anyone else contribute to that too?
<davmor2> yes I need to update the smoke test wiki page it's starting to look a mess which is why I haven't
<heno> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/DailySmoke
<heno> davmor2: feel free to just flush it and start from current testing
<davmor2> That was my plan
<davmor2> I'm going to refresh it tonight.
<heno> schwuk has set up a mirror-of-last-resort for ISO images
<bdmurray> ara: maybe bug 281711
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281711 in network-manager "network-manager doesn't save wep key on a "system setting" connection" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281711
<heno> please contact him for access details
<heno> this is to work around bw problems on cdimage in the testing crunch
<heno> it's not for the wider public, just active pre-release testers
<sbeattie> cjwatson: re bug 280900 is bug 282756 different? I hit the error 141 issue with daily iso build 20081015
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280900 in ubiquity "Intrepid daily-live won't install from desktop using manual partitioning" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/280900
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282756 in ubiquity "partman exited with code 141 (attempted manual partitioning)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282756
<heno> ok, next
<ara> bdmurray: thanks, the discussion in here seems to be what I experience http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=934575
<heno> [TOPIC] upgrade testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  upgrade testing
<heno> we should make a start on this earlier
<heno> including preparations
<heno> I've prepared a hardy kvm image here http://files.omma.net/kvm/
<heno> it's a base install + updates and a bunch of extra packages
<davmor2> schwuk: are you having issues with wep or wpa key being stored?
<heno> feel free to download and extend that
<heno> schwuk: did you get to setting up some upgrade KVM images?
<heno> I intended to make 64-bit and kubuntu images too
<heno> (but didn't get to it yet)
<schwuk> heno: I have VMWare images for ubuntu hardy i386 and amd64. Base install on both. I'm putting together base kvm images for kubuntu and xubuntu (both archs).
<sbeattie> heno: I've done a little upgrade testing; mvo is working on bug 282830 where etckeeper prevents update-manager from installing anything.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282830 in update-manager "update-manager claims to do a release upgrade, but doesn't actually install packages" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/282830
<schwuk> I also have images for ubuntu-server (amd64)
<cr3> heno and schwuk: I used to maintain isv-image.ubuntu.com/vmware for hosting such images. it might be worth reviving the site to include kvm images too
<heno> schwuk, sbeattie: ok great
<sbeattie> I have a virtualbox i386 image that's base + lots of other packages mostly from main (~2500 in total) that I could make available.
<mvo> sbeattie: hm, how long would it take for me to download that (i.e. what uplink do you have?)
<sbeattie> mvo: a while; 640kb up.
<heno> sbeattie: can you prepare a file list for him?
<heno> dpkg -l | grep '^ii' | awk '{print $2}' > packages-list.txt
<heno> or so
<mvo> heno: I have the dpkg -l output in the bug I think
<heno> mvo: can you recreate his install with that?
<mvo> I should be able to, yes
<heno> for i in `cat packages-list.txt`; do apt-get install $i; done;
<heno> :)
<heno> (yes I was playing with this earlier)
<heno> let's wrap up, we have an LP-QA meeting just after this
<sbeattie> heno: yes, dpkg -l output is in http://launchpadlibrarian.net/18507713/dpkg.list
<mvo> heno: import apt; cache=apt.Cache(); for pkg in open("packages-list.txt"): cache[pkg].markInstall(); cache.commit();" <- will be faster :)
<heno> any other business?
 * mvo puts off his show-off hat
<heno> mvo: yes, silly me ;)
<bdmurray> mvo: sweet
<mrooney> This may be unrelated but the OO 3.0 request bug is getting rather loud
<mrooney> bug 267376
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267376 in openoffice.org "[Request] OpenOffice.org 3.0 in Intrepid ibex release" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267376
<pedro_> eek
<sbeattie> heno: I've been playing a bit with edos-debcheck looking for uninstallable packages, found a few, particularly around kde.
<mrooney> Is there a definitive answer to give in some sort of appeasing way?
<heno> there was talk of a universe package or so for that (?)
<sbeattie> all outside of main
<bdmurray> mrooney: I think calc has sent some mails to u-devel or u-devel-discuss about it
<mrooney> bdmurray: do you know if it is a definitive no way on 3.0 in Intrepid?
<heno> sbeattie: interesting - have you passed that on to motu-release?
<sbeattie> heno: in progress, but yes. Looking to automate it so we can detect when new ones occur.
<bdmurray> mrooney: I think it would be either in a ppa or in universe, but would check the ml to confirm.
<heno> mrooney: as the default option, yes - no way
<heno> we have freezes for good reasons even if it's not always obvious how these things work
<heno> ok, we're done!
<heno> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:58.
<ara> bye!
<heno> (sorry to be hard line, but I don't want to block the next meeting start)
<davmor2> bye
<heno> intellectronica: you're up :)
<intellectronica> oright guys, get your skypes going i'll connect you
<mrooney> heno: no problem, I agree! I just wish there was a way to express the values of freezes to those users
<heno> fwiw, we are talking about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam/LaunchpadBugsUbuntuQAMeeting
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 15 Oct 22:00: Platform Team | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board
<cjwatson> sbeattie: sorry, I wasn't very clear (or was confused), I did just upload the fix earlier today but it wouldn't have been on today's images
<cjwatson> sbeattie: I haven't yet analysed 282756 to see if it's different
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Platform Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-16
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 12:00: Ubuntu Mobile Team | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Mobile Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 13:00: Desktop Team | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC
<lool> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 07:00. The chair is lool.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<lool> hey folks
<ogra> moop
<lool> visiting last weeks action items
<lool> [topic] ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
<lool> Oh wait
<lool> [topic] roll call
<MootBot> New Topic:  roll call
<ogra> well, forwarded to amitk who currently dies under load
<persia> heh
<lool> So who do we ahve?
<lool> StevenK: hey
 * StevenK waves
<lool> davidm: you here?
<lool> [topic] ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra to make sure a quirk or a blacklist entry is prepared to fix Q1U's wifi
<lool> 14:01 < ogra> well, forwarded to amitk who currently dies under load
<lool> ogra: What's the bug again?
<lool> LP #
<ogra> not sure we have one
<lool> We need one
 * ogra quickly files one 
<lool> Please milestone for intrepid
<lool> amitk: hey
<lool> amitk: we were discussing ath5k/madwifi on q1u
<lool> amitk: Is any lp # open for this?
<amitk> lool: no lp # AFAIK. I am short of time on debugging this.
<lool> amitk: Should we look at assigning someone to the bug, perhaps someone not busy like you are with lpia/iwl3945, to make sure we get it for intrepid?
<lool> amitk: At this point, I'd say we should give up debug of ath5k and just use madwifi for the q1u's pci id
<davidm> lool i am here
<lool> hey davidm
<amitk> lool: Just file a bug. Tim is going to do a wireless backport very soon that should fix some of ath5k's problems.
<lool> amitk: ogra is filing one as we speak
<amitk> that is why I stopped looking at it. ath5k in 2.6.27 has known deficiencies.
<lool> amitk: I also got some aufs issues when fs is full with the new aufs, but didn't reproduce reliably
<lool> but I'm only mentionning this to try to make your brain explode
<lool> will file a bug if I reproduce
<ogra> bug 284354
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284354 in linux "ignore ath5k on samsung Q1" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284354
<lool> thanks ogra
<amitk> lool: very few fs handle getting full reliably :)
<amitk> lool: if you try too hard, my brain will go into shutdown
<lool> amitk: Note that I filed the fs, then freed some space, and it remained broken
<lool> amitk: ah, thermal protection
<lool> ogra: + also affects linux-lpia
 * ogra adds
<lool> (added)
<ogra> meh
<ogra> LP moans
<lool> [topic] persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to make sure lpia/mid installs with trunk versions of seeds and ubiquty
<lool> persia: so these were uploaded as well I think
<amitk> lool: ok. that should probably be an upstream aufs bug.
<persia> Yeah, that's been working since last Thursday.
<persia> Well, there were some broken days, but not mid-specific.
<lool> persia: I had reports of things going wrong on CB with daily MID of a couple of days ago, but couldn't reproduce these particular issues
<lool> I think it was because of prior partitioning confusing partman
<persia> lool, In a way that things didn't go wrong on i386?
<lool> I personally crashed due to kernel lockup no high IDE load
<lool> s/no/on
<persia> Yeah, there's little ubiquity or debian-installer components can do about that.
<lool> And I heard from StevenK that he installed fine at the beginning of the week
<StevenK> That was on my Jax
<lool> Good
<lool> So, that's done, thanks; moving on
<lool> (but please continue testing and filing bugs as appropriate)
<lool> [topic] StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK to make sure lpia-lrm reaches archive and is installable
<StevenK> lool: I tested the install on my Q1 before the Jax, that worked even better
<lool> StevenK: great
<StevenK> lool: That was done before the meeting finished, I think
<StevenK> It's moot, anyway, we're waiting for -4
<persia> Plus linux-firmware integration.
<lool> Ok; does that make it in the dailies?
<StevenK> Yes
<StevenK> livecd-rootfs install linux-lpia
<lool> amitk: What's eta for getting latest linux and lrm bits in the lpia flavors?
<StevenK> s/all/alls/
<amitk> lool: i suspect after the critical bug list is squashed. So not this week.
<lool> amitk: aha
<lool> [topic] amitk - any kernel issues?
<StevenK> That worries me a little
<MootBot> New Topic:  amitk - any kernel issues?
<lool> amitk: (that's from agenda)
<lool> amitk: So anything else kernel related for intrepid?
<amitk> meta needs to be changed to add linux-firmware
<lool> StevenK: It does worry me as well; that said, we have a general issue about merging linux/linux-lpia
<lool> Keeping the trees in sync will remain on the shoulders of the ubuntu kernel team whether we get new linux-lpia/lrm-lpia or not
<lool> What matters is that we release with working images
<lool> amitk: lpia-meta?
<amitk> there is one major change in the tree right now - uvesafb -> vesafb
<amitk> lool: yes
<lool> amitk: If this is intrepid-critical, pelase file a bug with milestone
<lool> amitk: severity >= high, milestone 8.10, nominate for intrepid
<persia> There were *lots* of uvesafb issues.  Moving to vesafb would be nice.
<lool> I can say that the current dailies boot on CB, jax10, and Q1U; need to retest kvm
<amitk> lool: BenC will look at it (or already has). I will just rebase lpia tree on top of it.
<lool> I have no wifi on jax10 and q1u
<StevenK> That's odd.
<StevenK> Wifi works on my Q!
<lool> amitk: Unless this happens as we speak, I'd be more confortable with a milestoned bug
<StevenK> Er, Q1
<amitk> for now, ath5k should be blacklisted (unfortunately) until backports is available
<ogra> amitk, generally ?
<StevenK> I've finally discovered which driver the Jax needs
<amitk> ogra: for lpia
<ogra> ah
<persia> StevenK, Something includable short-term, or a release note?
<StevenK> The driver is included
<StevenK> It's firmware for it that's problematic
<amitk> StevenK: yeah.. jax needs sd8686 firmware or libertas or some combination thereof
<cgregan> Is there anything I can help with when it comes to binaries for Jax?
<StevenK> libertas_sdio is in the kernel as a module
<lool> [action] amitk to make sure we get new meta{,-lpia} pulling linux-firmware or file a milestoned bug for intrepid release
<MootBot> ACTION received:  amitk to make sure we get new meta{,-lpia} pulling linux-firmware or file a milestoned bug for intrepid release
<amitk> the problem is that we can't redistribute sd8686 firmware.
<lool> I'd prefer the bug to make release team aware of this action being needed, but if what matters is that it gets done :)
<lool> pff gnome-keyring has locked my screen with two modal dialogs
<ogra> fun
<lool> [topic] persia to write spec for jaunty on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia to write spec for jaunty on providing iso images or vm support or how to write mobile images for end users
<persia> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-iso-images is registered, but not drafted
<lool> thanks
<lool> Ok; moving to current items
<lool> basically status reports and blockers for intrepid
<lool> [topic] amitk's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  amitk's status
<lool> amitk: Hey anything else you'd like to mention on intrepid or blocking your work?
<lool> amitk: Perhaps you need a delivery of coffee to stay up all nights?  ;-)
 * lool think we need more amitks
<ian_brasil> in finland day is night anyway
<StevenK> I'm happy to provide heavy metal to keep amitk and his neighbours awake
<lool> StevenK: Correction, wifi works on Q1U now; was the password not being recorded properly
<lool> ian_brasil: and night is night sadly
<lool> Ok, I guess amitk is actually busy doing stuff
<lool> [topic] StevenK's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  StevenK's status
<lool> StevenK: wazzup
<StevenK> I have been distracted by my Jax
<StevenK> My plan for tomorrow is to fix Contacts and then look at release bugs
<lool> StevenK: If you poke contacts, would be nice to investigate why dates doesn't have icons; installing hildonÃ¨icons doesn't help
<lool> I suspect it's a theme path issue in some env var or some such
<StevenK> lool: File a bug and assign it to me? :-)
<lool> StevenK: anything blocking your work?  any intrepid critical bugs you'd like to mention?
<lool> StevenK: (bug filed and assigned)
<StevenK> lool: Nope
<lool> [topic] persia's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  persia's status
<lool> persia: w0Ã t
<lool> *w00t even
<persia> Well, the installer works.  I still need someone to push lp:~persia/casper/trunk, but so far nobody seems very interested.
<lool> I am!
<lool> I'm sure StevenK is as well
 * persia is happy about renewed enthusiasm
<lool> We're in freeze though, blah will need approval
<persia> I still have no networking on my D4 (wired, USB wired, USB wireless, built-in SDIO wireless), so my testing is a bit cramped.
<lool> persia: Can you poke me tomorrow on merigng this branch and uploading?
<persia> Other than that, things are good.
<lool> I'd like to continue chasing xorg stuff today
<persia> lool, Sure, happy to poke you about it :)
<lool> persia: Weird that you don't get usb wired
<amitk> umm... sorry. was filing bug for linux-lpia-meta
<lool> amitk: thanks
<amitk> nothing new to report here
<persia> Yeah.  The adapter shows up, but I can't get it to actually carry a signal : it always fails DHCP.
<lool> amitk: Ok, thanks for confirming
<StevenK> How to get the touchscreen going on the Jax would be good, too
<lool> persia: Here NM picks it up after the module gets autoloaded when I plug it, and manages to connect just fine
<lool> StevenK: Can you spend time with ogra to chase this?
<lool> ogra has good touchscreen overview and is in contact with upstream but has no jax10
<ogra> right
<cgregan> I sent the package list to lool. I'm not sure of the licensing on the touch driver though
<davidm> SeteenK unlikely
<lool> davidm: Perhaps it's close enough to an existing touchscreen that we can get it to work with some poking
<davidm> license  does not work currently
<lool> cgregan: We'd like to get a free driver for it working
<davidm> we need to be careful since OEM team had customer version
<cgregan> lool: Hmmm....I will ask around to see if anything ever came close to working
<lool> cgregan: Using the proprietary version is only possible for people having access to it   :-/  it's ok for Canonical employees as a fallback though
<lool> cgregan: If you have any info, that's great; poke ogra and StevenK if you do :)
<ogra> davidm, the question is if we can get the kernel side to work with any free driver, the Xorg side should be possible to cover as long as input events come in
<davidm> true
<lool> [topic] lool's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  lool's status
<persia> Even just clear instructions would be good.  Many users have reported that they can download incompatible drivers from their original SW vendors.
<lool> poked xorg / psb stuff this week; helped OEM and desktop teams as well
<lool> nothing particular to report; I'm chasing Xvfb not coming up on some arches
<lool> Which breaks builds using xvfb-run
<lool> But I don't have the hardware, and qemu-system-sparc and -ppc don't work as much as I'd like
<lool> I have other small universe bugs to tackle before release as well
<lool> [topic] ogra's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  ogra's status
<lool> ogra: What's up
<ogra> * evtouch
<ogra>   * added a bunch of new .fdi files
<ogra>   * supports six device classes now
<ogra>   * changed install location and sequence numbers of .fdi files
<ogra>   * open issues: bug 222164
<ogra> * lots of ltsp cleanup
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 222164 in xf86-input-evtouch "evtouch works incorrectly when the screen is left or right rotated" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/222164
<ogra>   * worked out fixes to the new logout model of gnome desktop
<ogra>   * merged in all upstram changes into intrepid packages
<ogra>   * hunted down several ldm UI bugs
<ogra>   * fixed various regressions vs hardy
<ogra> * adjusted ubuntu-mobile-default-settings to new artwork naming scheme
<ogra> * tried to get linux-lpia over its abi check bound FTBFS
<ogra> * worked on various distro related release bugs
<ogra> * fixed pm-utils to ignore blacklisted modules on resume
<ogra> * hal-info Q1 keyboard mapping merged upstream
<ogra> * general ubuntu-mobile image tests
<ogra> * bluetooth 4.x tests (3 out of four devices work now here)
<ogra> * various Xorg related tasks (bug hunting etc)
<ogra> :)
<lool> cool; could you copy that to email as well?   :)
<lool> thanks for the details
<ogra> lool, already sent :)
<lool> thanks
<lool> [topic] cgregan's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  cgregan's status
<lool> cgregan: if you like :)
<cgregan> :-)
<cgregan> The biggest item is hiring
<cgregan> I have a new tester starting in Lexington so I should have more time for helping out here
<lool> Candidates for QA jobs at Canonical, poke cgregan!
<lool> cgregan: Ok; anything intrepid critical or any blocker you'd like to mention?
<cgregan> No intrepid related issues yet
<cgregan> we are still based on Hardy in OEM
<lool> Okay
<lool> [topic] davidm's status
<MootBot> New Topic:  davidm's status
<lool> davidm: w00t
<lool> davidm: We would like lots of details, very long phrases to type with your tiny kbd muaahahah
<davidm> working on 945 bug
<davidm> reviewed resumes for qa position
<davidm> review SoW issues
<davidm> and now no lappy.......
<davidm> off tomorrow swap day
<davidm> done
<lool> thanks
<lool> Any other business for today?
 * lool pokes around
 * ogra feels tickled
<lool> It's soon my birthday, you're welcome to send me gifts!
<davidm> just to focus on Intrep bugs please Jax and others can wait
<lool> And don't forget thanksgiving and xmas
<ogra> haha
<lool> Ok; thanks everybody
 * cgregan heads to amazon.fr
<lool> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 07:44.
<lool> cgregan: heh just kidding!  :)
<cgregan> :-)
<lool> I was lying, my birthday was almost a year ago
<cgregan> hehe....mine too!
<lool> haha the desktop folks didn't have a chance to press our meeting this week
<pitti> ah, my interweb tube works again, right on time
<seb128> hey pitti
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC
<Keybuk> my internets appear to be broken too
<Keybuk> wiki just took ages to load up
<Keybuk> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2008-10-16
 * mvo waves
<Keybuk> ah, Ken
<Keybuk> nice of you to join us ;)
<pitti> it didn't break at home, somewhere in the middle
<kwwii> sorry, kid was screaming
<Keybuk> no outstanding actions from last meeting
<Keybuk> so let's jump straight into Ken's agenda items
<Keybuk> kwwii: Status of splitting of gnome-themes package
<kwwii> Keybuk: sooo...I was supposed to check up on this and report back
<kwwii> we need to figure out how to get that done :-)
<ogra> will shipit send out rust converter with the CDs for the desktop ? :)
<kwwii> seb128, mvo: any news?
<kwwii> and/or plans?
<mvo> not from my side
<Keybuk> honestly
<Keybuk> today is too late for making changes like this
<tedg> kwwii: Are you talking about the prompt for upgrade?
<seb128> not from mine either, but as said the changes are easy to do if required
<kwwii> tedg: nope, I am talking about the gnome-theme package now
<pitti> so, that's about shipping some themes in a new package, poke it through unpproved and NEW, and change the seeds to only pull in gnome-themes-thosewelove?
 * Keybuk puts the brakes on
<Keybuk> guys
<Keybuk> we are in release freeze
<seb128> the discussion on listed showed no strong reason to do that this cycle though if we have no other theme to list instead, especially than some users still run ugly themes because they are not so slow
<Keybuk> splitting packages and changing seeds is something that should have been done weeks ago
<Hobbsee> Keybuk++;
<kwwii> the point is to remove everything but the high-contrast themes (putting the others in another package for upgraders)
<persia> Can that not be done?  It's non-ideal for other flavours
<kwwii> Keybuk: well, sabdfl wanted this done and we did talk about it weeks ago
<persia> (because of the package split, and tracking that)
<seb128> persia: other flavor can still depends on gnome-theme if required
<Keybuk> kwwii: sabdfl has not talked to me about it
<Keybuk> so I do not consider it a priority
<kwwii> Keybuk: erm, it was discussed by quite a few people
<seb128> honestly the change is quick to do, the hard part is to decide on the naming
<Keybuk> kwwii: yes, I'm aware of the discussion
<Keybuk> the point is that the discussion took too long
<Keybuk> it's now too late to do for this release
<pitti> Seb should handle 2.24.1, so I'm ok with doing the split; shouldn't take more than two hours
<Keybuk> you may continue the discussion and decide what to do for jaunty
<kwwii> Keybuk: ok, so I can tell mark that you veto'd it?
<Keybuk> yes
<Keybuk> the fact that today is release freeze veto'd it
<kwwii> ok, that wraps up that then
<kwwii> I honestly do not think he will be happy with that but I can live with that as well
<kwwii> the other agenda items I brought up have been taken care of already
<ogra> he still has his super cow powers to force such a change
<kwwii> I get to tell mark "no" three times
<seb128> let's not create issues over that, the changes are easy if he really wants that
<kwwii> ogra: this change should have been done weeks ago
<ogra> kwwii, i know
<Keybuk> seb128: if they are easy, why have they not yet been done?
<ogra> but the d in sabdfl gives him the extra power if he feels strongly for it
<persia> If they are changed, please verify that it works with Ubuntu Studio, Ubuntu Mobile, and Edubuntu before uploading.
<seb128> Keybuk: because there was no real point to do this change so we started a discussion on why on the list
<Hobbsee> seb128: hasn't it been discussed in the past 2 meetings?
<Keybuk> I'm strongly concerned that there are hidden repercussions here
<Hobbsee> persia: exactly.
<Keybuk> and after release freeze is not the time to find them o ut
<seb128> persia: gnome-themes would still install everything so that should be no issue
<Keybuk> we will defer this to jaunty unless I say otherwise
<seb128> ok
<Keybuk> if Mark talks to you, refer him to me
<Keybuk> he's supposed to include me in the loop if he has priority requests
<kwwii> Keybuk: you'll be in cc
<kwwii> Keybuk: then you should be in on our weekly calls
<persia> seb128, I'm concerned about Replaces: but OK.
<Keybuk> so I am reading this as a non-priority request
<Keybuk> (not all of Mark's requests are priority, many are would-be-nice :p)
<seb128> persia: those are in gnome-themes, that's just a binary split so it impacts on nothing else
<Keybuk> ok, moving on
<Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~dholbach/sponsoring/
<Keybuk> argh
<Keybuk> that has totally crashed my browser
<seb128> still using webkit? ;-)
<seb128> pitti has been rocking on the sponsoring list
<Keybuk> seb128: no
<Keybuk> none of these are High or Critical or Release Targeted
<Keybuk> so they are all for jaunty now
<Keybuk> seb128: crashing seems to be related to flash :-/
<seb128> Keybuk: you just downgraded your libtool bug? ;-)
<Keybuk> seb128: yes, I'm so not getting a chance before intrepid
<Keybuk> err, I've lost the agenda because the wiki has crashed :p
<Keybuk> pitti: Release Status ? :)
<Keybuk> oh, his network connection died
<Keybuk> any other business today? :)
<kwwii> one thing
 * Riddell wibbles about language packs
<Hobbsee> Release status:  We're in the RC freeze, all main uploads need approval by the Ubuntu release team.  Universe is as normal.
<kwwii> seb128: did you see the human icon theme and human theme package update I sent you per email? will those make it in?
<tedg> One small thing, I don't think it should be fixed, but at least well known.  Turns out that GPM isn't using PolicyKit.  I didn't notice until last night.  Probably not important for Intrepid, but may cause other issues if people expect it to respond to PolicyKit messages.
<seb128> kwwii: been lagging behind on mail, would be nice if you could open sponsoring request bugs so anybody can sponsor those and it makes easier to keep track, will do if pitti didn't look at those yet
<seb128> tedg: what sort of messages exactly?
<kwwii> seb128: ok, I can do that...is there more info on what I should put in that bug?
<tedg> seb128: I believe, and I haven't looked completely, it would be something like if HAL required an authentication dialog for shutdown.  GPM doesn't know how to show that.
<seb128> kwwii: don't bother for this one, will talk to pitti when he's back
<seb128> tedg: ah, ok
<kwwii> ok, from now on I will make sure to file a sponsoring bug for everything
 * ogra guesses PK only is relevant with the new GDM for the power manager
<kwwii> and bug you guys as a last resort :-)
<Keybuk> great
<Keybuk> one last item for today
<Keybuk> farewell to mvo
<seb128> kwwii: thank
<mvo> I will just be in the office next door
<seb128> mvo: you can come drink tea at the desktop team office whenever you want ;-)
<kwwii> mvo: we'll be screaming at you through the walls
<Keybuk> next week, we'll have four new team members
<Keybuk> asac, ArneGoetje, bryce and calc
<Keybuk> since this gives us a bit of a new timezone spread, we may want to adjust the meeting day and time
 * asac waves
 * ArneGoetje waves too
<kwwii> Keybuk: any news when I will be leaving the team?
 * ArneGoetje is happy with the current meeting time
 * tedg guessing bryce is not :)
<Keybuk> kwwii: I have heard that Julian will be joining us on November 3rd - so you and mpt will change teams on or after that date
<Riddell> julian?
<Keybuk> Riddell: visual designer, who will report into the marketing team
 * Keybuk wants an RSS feed for the org chart ;)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Desktop Team Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 14:00: Ubuntu Java | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community
<Keybuk> other than that, unless there's any other business, let's finish early for the day
<Keybuk> well done everybody on the release so far
<Keybuk> we have the lowest RC bug count of all the teams ;)
<Keybuk> (unless you count community <g>)
<mvo> rock!
 * tedg doesn't have a RSS feed reader that will refresh on units less than an hour :(
<Hobbsee> Keybuk: I can fix that, if you'd like...
<Hobbsee> :)
<Keybuk> ok, adjourned
<Keybuk> thanks all
<seb128> thanks Keybuk
<mvo> thanks
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Java Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community
<Koon> Who's here for the java meeting ?
 * persia is here
<persia> OK.  Nobody else.
<persia> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JavaTeam/Meeting
<persia> Well, the page isn't coming up for me now.
<persia> Oh, there it is :)  Only item is Roadmap review.
<persia> robilad is absent
<persia> slytherin is absent
<persia> Koon, Anything to report about maven?  My memory is that we're waiting for Jaunty open.
<Koon> persia: yes -- also I'm still chasing openweek dates
<Koon> to see if I could do a packaging session then
<persia> No feedback from that team?
<persia> dholbach: any guess on when openweek will be scheduled?
<dholbach> persia: no, I'm sorry - not yet, I'll talk to Jono about it our call later on and notify Koon
<persia> dholbach, Thanks.
<persia> OK.  Anyone have anything else for the Java meeting?
<Koon> just a note
<persia> Sure.
<Koon> we start being bitten by "default-jdk building at java6-level bytecode by default" bugs
<Koon> see bug 283875 for instance
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283875 in tomcat5.5 "tomcat in intrepid no longer supports java5" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283875
<persia> There was some talk about that in the foundations meeting.  My understanding is that there will be a release note telling people not to use older JREs.
<persia> doko, Am I remembering correctly, or do you have something else planned?
<Koon> doko told me to fix tomcat 5.5 and libs to support lesser level
<doko> yes, there will be a release note, but if you do want to fix that, just rebuild the package with the minimum required -source and -target options
<persia> OK.  So we should target "important" packages for an update, and expect the rest to be covered by the release note?
<doko> I do understand that people still use 1.5
<doko> sure, that would make sense, but imo, it's not first priority
<Koon> yes, my fear here is people upgrading a sun-jdk5+tomcat5.5 package and having it broken in intrepid
<Koon> anyway, if the release notes encourage usage of java 6 that should cover us
<Koon> but i'll still try to target 1.5 for tomcat 5.5 :)
<persia> Koon, Makes sense.  I think it depends on the definition of "important", and which use cases we want to support.
<persia> Personally, with hardy being LTS, I'm mostly happy telling people to upgrade.
<Koon> anyway, that was just a remark, something to keep in mind when converting those gcj-built libs to default-jdk.
<persia> OK.  Well, thanks for starting the meeting :)  Let's do it again next week.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Ubuntu Java Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board
<huats> nxvl: the meeting won't be long
<huats> but I really think it is a good think to have one (from time to time)
<huats> nxvl: how are you bt w?
<nxvl> good
<huats> great :)
<nxvl> i was just making some coordinations
<huats> no pb
<nxvl> and really busy at work
<nxvl> working for free software isn't as great as it looks, is still funny and a better work than other, but not as great as it appears
<nxvl> really busy time
<nxvl> times*
<huats> I understand
<nxvl> i've a lot of fun at it, but you need to run against the clock
<nxvl> ok, we are all set
<huats> great
<porthose> Im here
<huats> here is the long waiting agenda :)
<huats> 0. Actions from last meeting
<huats> 1. Status of new requests
<huats> 2. Status of mentors
<huats> 3. Mailing list
<huats> 4. Any other topic ?
<huats> :)
<huats> is it ok for everyone ?
<porthose> yep
<huats> ok
<nxvl> \o/
<huats> let's start
<huats> 0. Actions from last meeting
<huats> porthose: you have matched the open applications you were asked to
<huats> I have contacted slomo and jcorbier : slomo asked to be removed for some time of the list of available mentors.
<huats> But if needed we can ask him again when we lack mentors.
<huats> jcorbier told me he has withdrew all his involvments in Ubuntu teams a while back, mentoring included.
<huats> and the other remaining points were for norsetto
<huats> (and he did them before he left the team...)
<huats> nxvl: or porthose : anything you wanted to say here ?
<nxvl> not from me
<porthose> huats: yes I have matched all open application that I was asked to
<porthose> and a few more :)
<huats> sure :)
<huats> porthose: but in the pending actions they were 2 that you had to match (that is why I mention that ones)
<huats> :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 20:00: EMEA Membership Board | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 21 Oct 11:00: Community Council
<huats> ok
<huats> so next point
<huats> 1. Status of new requests
<huats> it is simple : None is curently pending ! We rock :)
<huats> :)
<nxvl> \o/
<persia> Congratulations!
<porthose> :)
<huats> thanks persia :)
 * nxvl dances
 * persia never remembers the mentoring queue being empty since it started
<huats> persia: that is the advantage of being a team
<huats> :)
<huats> i think we can advance to the next point : 2. Status of mentors
<huats> We will soon face a lack of mentors for the junior program
<nxvl> persia: yes, we keep it empty regulary
<huats> I will send an email to all mentors asking them the status of their mentee, and telling them to think if none of them is able to step to the senior program, this might free some slots...
<nxvl> and give more work to the motu council \o/
<nxvl> :P
<huats> (I think it might be interesting to remind mentors that the junior program is just one step, since it is the beginning of the process)
<huats> nxvl: exactly
<RoAkSoAx> can i ask if there are any free mentors for the Junior Program?? (Since I'm thinking about re taking my mentoring program)
<RoAkSoAx> or if my mentor (vorian) still free
<nxvl> i think we should hold fire on that for 2 weeks
<huats> nxvl: sure....
<nxvl> motu council is really busy this days
<huats> it was so clear that I haven't mentionned that
<huats> :)Ã 
<nxvl> and applications are taking an eternity to be processed
<huats> RoAkSoAx: vorian still have an empty slot
<huats> I think you can contact him and ask him if he agrees to continue your mentoring :)
<huats> RoAkSoAx: the thing is that now there are 2 steps
<huats> so may be we should discuss that later :)
<huats> ok ?
<RoAkSoAx> ok :)
<nxvl> huats: just ignore RoAkSoAx, he doesn't deserve it
<nxvl> :P
 * nxvl HUGS RoAkSoAx 
 * RoAkSoAx slaps nxvl :P xD
<nxvl> :D
<huats> I will contact each new u-u-c or motu to ask them if they want to mentor some people. (I'll search all the guys since the last meeting).
<huats> in order to avoid that shortage of available mentors
<huats> finally
 * porthose considers applying for uuc
<huats> ask your mentor :)
<huats> ;)
<huats> next point to be treated is the mailing list
<huats> :(
<nxvl> i can support you application
<huats> (porthose:  I will support it too)
<nxvl> still no news on that topic?
<huats> yes and NO !
<porthose> nxvl huats thanks
<huats> the mailling list has been approved
<huats> which is great
<huats> the thing is that the need to create it
<huats> I went to ask and find some on IRC to try to fasten stuff
<huats> but no luck so far...
<huats> but it is just a matter of time
<huats> and so far the mailing list I am hosting is working :)
<huats> so let's cross fingers :)
<porthose> who needs to be contacted ?
<huats> some canonicals sysadmin
<nxvl> IS can be really slow sometimes
<huats> i know...
<huats> so
<huats> any other topic you want to be dealed ?
<porthose> none that I can think of :)
<nxvl> yes
<nxvl> i've find some problems lately with the mentoring program
<nxvl> since we have new contributors jumping in, but never showing, or just contributing 2 days
<nxvl> and then they are gone
<huats> i know that
<huats> I have noticed that
<huats> I think it is the mentor responsability to deal with that
<nxvl> for example: i accepter my first mentee some time ago, we coordinate to meet us on the IRC the day after that
<nxvl> but he never showed
<huats> have you try to ping him by email ?
<nxvl> i think we should give mentors to people that are already contributors
<nxvl> and has demostrate a real interest in ubuntu development
<huats> nxvl: I won't be like that
<huats> since people might find difficult to start without someone who is mentoring
<huats> ...
<huats> I really think it is something that we have to live wih
<nxvl> well, with that i don't mean to be almost a uuc, but to have 2 weeks to a month around
<nxvl> not a guy that finds ubuntu and ask for a mentor right away
<huats> of course we should try to face it
<huats> ok
<nxvl> just to see if h like it
<huats> so why not ask any applicant if he has already work on fixing bugs/triagging and stuffs...
<nxvl> we should ask for at least some bug comments, a launchpad account
<nxvl> and maybe a patch
<nxvl> huats: works for me
<huats> I would be strongly against the patch
<nxvl> if he is not, instead of saying: ok dude, come back later
<porthose> that should already be on their wiki page
<nxvl> we just wait a couple of weeks to process his/her application
<nxvl> to see is the interest is real
<nxvl> huats: that's why the maybe is inthere
<huats> but LP account and bugs comments/triagging is a great basis
<huats> :)
<huats> I know :)
<huats> regarding the delay of application, I am not too sure
<huats> I'd rather say someone : can you work a bit more, instead of not saying anything...
<nxvl> ok, then we are all for asking for at least bug triagging/comments or delay the processing of the application?
<huats> I would be in favor of telling the applicant that he need to work a bit before applying again...
<nxvl> or we can say: "ok, we are processing your application, in the meantime can you work on this by your own"
<huats> ok
<huats> that sounds better to me
<porthose> cool:)
<huats> so we need a new file with pending applications :)
<nxvl> the thing is that in those cases we will be the face of the ubuntu development community
<huats> with the date of communication
<nxvl> since we will be the first step into it for the new developer
<huats> sure...
<nxvl> and thinking as a new contributor, if they tell me "ok work a little more se we take you in account" is even rude
<nxvl> and they will just go
<nxvl> which is not what we want
<huats> We need to explain our policy
<nxvl> we are like salesmans
<huats> but it is not rude
<nxvl> and we need to sale
<nxvl> and the new contributor is our costumer
<nxvl> and we want to make the sale
<huats> to say : "we are about to put a lot of time/effort to help you.... and we need to be sure you are interested..."
<porthose> yea but we need to look at the quality of the contibutor, we don't want any joe smo who just figured out how to turn on his computer to get a mentor do we?
<porthose> IMHO that's a waste of resources
<nxvl> ok, i still find the "you can do this while we process your application" better
<nxvl> but yes, i'm ok with your suggestion too
<porthose> agreed
<huats> sure
<huats> I agreee with you nxvl
<huats> and may be add something like : doing that will fasten your application :)
<nxvl> ok
<nxvl> point closed then
<nxvl> huats: any other points?
<huats> nope for me
<huats> nxvl: ? porthose ?
<nxvl> im ok
<porthose> Im good :)
<huats> ok
<huats> grat
<huats> great
<huats> so meeting over
<porthose> oh one more
<huats> does anybody can take care of the minutes ?
<huats> porthose: sure
<porthose> when will the next meeting be
<nxvl> porthose: are you going to UDS?
<huats> :)
<porthose> afraid not :-(
<nxvl> then not at UDS
<huats> ok
<huats> let's say around the 20th of november ?
<huats> I'll send both of you a doodle
<porthose> cool will mark the calender :)
<huats> with some proposals :)
<huats> ok ?
<porthose> k
<porthose> ok now I'm done :)
<huats> great !
<huats> thanks guys :)
<huats> anyone can do the minutes ?
<porthose> do you want it on a wiki page?
<seancarlgrech_> membership meeting?
<seancarlgrech_> is the emea membership meeting going to be held?
<persia> seancarlgrech_, It appears to be scheduled to start in about 150 minutes.
<seancarlgrech_> :o thanks a lot persia... i've terribly miscalculated than!
<persia> seancarlgrech_, I may be miscalculating : /topic says 20:00 UTC.
<seancarlgrech_> indeed...
<persia> Hmm.  And Americas Membership Board at 23:00.  Somehow I think one or both of those times would do well to shift so they would be more widely distributed.
<seancarlgrech_> all i intended was to see if i'm eligible to become a member
<seancarlgrech_> but seems that i'll have to wait till next time
<seancarl> no meeting then?
<persia> Isn't it 16:39 UTC?
<seancarl> in malta it's 18.39
<seancarl> i supposed that utc is maltese time -2hrs
<seancarl> it could be +2hr ... not sure...
<seancarl> i'm confused now..
<seancarl> persia: thanks... i got to leave, as i have another meeting (not online)
<seancarl> which i was going to loose in order to be present here :S
<oirft> All members of asianbookie chat/forums need go on http://probetting.blog.com http://probetting.blog.com The service is recommand from BA big europe forum.For every info our service guaranted for winning.
<oirft> All members of asianbookie chat/forums need go on http://probetting.blog.com http://probetting.blog.com The service is recommand from BA big europe forum.For every info our service guaranted for winning.
<oirft> All members of asianbookie chat/forums need go on http://probetting.blog.com http://probetting.blog.com The service is recommand from BA big europe forum.For every info our service guaranted for winning.
<oirft> All members of asianbookie chat/forums need go on http://probetting.blog.com http://probetting.blog.com The service is recommand from BA big europe forum.For every info our service guaranted for winning.
<highvoltage> Burgertime
<Burgundavia> highvoltage: Burgertime?
<highvoltage> Burgundavia: sorry, there was a pizza ad on tv where they said 'pizzatime', and right at that moment you joined. I couldn't help myself.
<emgent> hello
 * emgent waiting meeting
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: 16 Oct 22:00: EMEA Membership Board | 17 Oct 01:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 21:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 15:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 13:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 21 Oct 13:00: Community Council
 * emgent hugs stefanlsd
<stefanlsd> hehe
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: EMEA Membership Board Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 21 Oct 11:00: Community Council
<riot_le1> msg NickServ IDENTIFY ser456
<riot_le1> ups forgot /
<riot_le1> i dont know why i cant rename my nick today
<philwyett> Time for a password change then riot_le1 ;-)
<riot_le1> :phylwyett: i dont like IRC, i will change password soon
<riot_le1> i dont like pidgin i wrote just simply a message without a smiley or the code of this smiley, crazy
<emgent> hahaha
<philwyett> :-)
<riot_le1> i try to login with my normal account but nothing happens, thats a reason more to hate IRC ;-)
<emgent> @schedule rome
<ubottu> Schedule for Europe/Rome: Current meeting: EMEA Membership Board 17 Oct 01:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 21:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 15:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 13:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 21 Oct 13:00: Community Council
<riot_le_> so i rename it
<emgent> meeting time..
<philwyett> I have never used pidgin for IRC. xchat-gnome all the way.
<emgent> someone up ?
<emgent> Seveas ?
<Seveas> hey
<riot_le_> i use pidgin for all protocols i need: Jabber, ICQ and so on
<Seveas> I don't think that time is very correct
<Seveas> 'cause meeting should be now :)
<emgent> Seveas: why not ?
<phanatic> yep, it's meeting time
<Seveas> launchpad is being slow as usual, not helping
<Seveas> popey, prod
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, prod
<phanatic> PriceChild, stgraber: are you here, guys?
<Seveas> stgraber, prod
<PriceChild> Hey
<Seveas> well, without a functioning launchpad our job will be quite difficult...
<popey> hi
<PriceChild> edge seems to be up?
<riot_le_> i hate IRC!!!
<popey> launchpad.net works here
<Seveas> yeah, it's back
<Seveas> but it's happened twice already tonight that it gave errors
<Seveas> riot_le_, behave...
<popey> :S
<forumsmatthew> sorry
<forumsmatthew>  I'm here
<emgent> nice :)
<popey> looking good
<emgent> stefanlsd: pinghe :)
<stefanlsd> present
<emgent> nice :)
<Seveas> all candidates: please prepare a 3-line intro about yourself in a text editor and paste it in here when you're up
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<popey> FYI
<riot_le_> what should be include in the intro?
<popey> arc riley can be removed - he was approved by another team
<Seveas> ok
<Seveas> hunmaat, are you there?
<hunmaat> hi
<Seveas> heya
<Seveas> please paste your intro
<Seveas> while we check wikipage etc.
<hunmaat> i'm writing it...
<Seveas> are there other hungarian locoteam members here who want to vouch for hunmaat ?
<jernst> Hello,
<jernst> My name is Jonathan Ernst (jernst).
<jernst> I'm 27 and live in Geneva, Switzerland. I'm a computer scientist and I'm using Linux since 1999.
<jernst> I'd like to be an Ubunut member because I feel I belong to this community and can contribute something back.
<jernst> You can get more informations about me here :Â https://wiki.ubuntu.com/jonathanernst
<riot_le_> Hi, i'am Martin Kaufmann. I work for the Ubuntu Events Team,
<riot_le_> i also organize the Meetings of the Ubuntuusergroup Leipzig (the City where
<riot_le_> i live). I also involved with the Linux4Afrika-Projects which sends
<riot_le_> Terminalserver-Thincliens-Solutions to Afrika, based on Ubuntu
<Seveas> jernst, it's not your turn yet. Wait please
<Seveas> DO NOT PASTE until it's your turn
<riot_le_> ok sorry
<jernst> Seveas: sorry about that I didn't know there were turns
<stgraber> I'mhere, sorry for being late
<Seveas> hi stgraber1
<hunmaat> I'm a Hungarian student. I'm a web developer and community member of ubuntu-hu since it's birth. I contribute regularly to localisation. I'm working now on our new website.
<riot_le_> hi stgraber
<Seveas> hunmaat, can you give me a link to your profile page on the ubuntu-hu forum?
<toros> Seveas: I fully support the membership of Mate. He has been a very active member of the hungarian community on many fields for many years. I think, nobody knows better our site (ubuntu.hu), than him.
<popey> i am seeing quite an effort in translation by hunmaat since 2006
<phanatic> i support hunmaat's membership, since he is a key member on our loco team.
<Seveas> ah, that settles it then :)
<Seveas> +1
<forumsmatthew> This is an easy one for me...
<forumsmatthew> +1
<popey> yeah, +1
<hunmaat> http://ubuntu.hu/user/maat
<phanatic> +1 from me obviously :)
<Seveas> phanatic, couldn't you have said that before I tried to understand hungarian :P
<emgent> hunmaat: can i see your launchpad profile ?
<hunmaat> https://launchpad.net/~orymate
<PriceChild> emgent: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
<stgraber> +1
<Seveas> PriceChild, your vote please
<PriceChild> +1
<phanatic> welcome on board, hunmaat :)
<hunmaat> thank you
<popey> keep up the good work hunmaat !
<emgent> ok nice work hunmaat
<Seveas> welcome hunmaat!
<forumsmatthew> congrats!!
<Seveas> amireldor, you're up next
<stefanlsd> grats hunmaat!
<Seveas> amireldor appears idle/missing. Moving on to stefanlsd. amireldor, poke me in a pm if you return
<Seveas> stefanlsd, your intro please :)
<stefanlsd> My name is Stefan Lesicnik. I am 27, living in South Africa and run a Linux Consulting company (also Canonical Partners!). I am part of the Ubuntu ZA Loco team, and working towards becomming a MOTU. (emgent is my mentor).  I have uploaded through sponsors 20 packages into Intrepid (http://thc.emanuele-gentili.com/utu/utu_intrepid.php) and worked on a bunch of others.
<emgent> I`d like support stefanlsd (my mentee)
<PriceChild> emgent: how come?
<emgent> Him help me and other people in the security team in bugfixing and research
<PriceChild> Wouldn't this then be better judged by an application to ubuntu contributing developer? (i believe that's the right term)
<Seveas> -1 from me. No documentation on the wiki and I don't feel comfortable judging MOTU-hopefuls without contributions in other areas
<stefanlsd> Seveas: which documentation are you referring too?
<PriceChild> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers
<Seveas> I agree with PriceChild, the MOTU would be a more appropriate route
<Seveas> stefanlsd, before you apply for membership, you must document your contributions on your wikipage
<popey> i can "only" see 27 bugs that stefanlsd has contributed to and many of those are dupes..
<forumsmatthew> I'm going to have to agree. It sounds like you are doing some good things, but they would be better evaluated by others than us.
<Seveas> which you have not done
<emgent> PriceChild: it`snt really correct, first to became MOTU is possible join ubuntu members.
<popey> emgent: you can get your membership through MOTU, you dont have to get it from us first
<emgent> Seveas: stefanlsd work in ubuntu community, him is very active
<stefanlsd> Seveas: http://people.lsd.co.za/wiki/stefan/MOTU
<emgent> also working in developement and security
<Seveas> emgent, I appreciate that but if most contributions are in MOTUland, then the MOTU path is the path to follow to become member, not the locoteam path
<PriceChild> emgent: prospective developers can become an "ubuntu contributing developer", granted by the MOTU council I believe. Being in this team gives membership.
<emgent> Seveas: him dont work only in developement, him i very active in community too.
<popey> -1 from me too based on a lack of detail on his wiki page and a lack of development detail shown in launchpad
<Seveas> emgent, I see no documentation/evidence of that. Such documentation must be prepared *before* the meeting
<popey> I'd also recommend that stefanlsd go via the MOTU route.
<stefanlsd> Seveas: again - http://people.lsd.co.za/wiki/stefan/MOTU  ?
<forumsmatthew> I'm sorry, I can't approve in good conscience right now. Perhaps with better documentation, or better yet, go through the MOTU people.  -1
<phanatic> there is no documentation about community work, i'm afraid
<stefanlsd> kk
<stefanlsd> thanks. will work thru UUC
<popey> and the documentation should be on the ubuntu wiki for MOTU too :)
<Seveas> phanatic, stgraber, PriceChild: Please give a +1/0/-1
<forumsmatthew> I think you are headed in the right direction, and I hope to see you as a member later.
<PriceChild> -1
<phanatic> -1
<stgraber> -1
<PriceChild> I think I've explained why.
<stefanlsd> just to check, linking from the ubuntu wiki to another wiki site - is not allowed?
<Seveas> And I think stefanlsd understands why too. stefanlsd please keep up the good work and good luck going the MOTU route!
<Seveas> stefanlsd, the ubuntu community prefers to have all such documentation to be in the ubuntu wiki
<forumsmatthew> The link was less of a problem than the emptiness of the page you linked to, although having it on the official ubuntu wiki is much better
<forumsmatthew> *relative emptiness
<Seveas> arcriley will be skipped
<Seveas> schakenberg seems to be missing
<Seveas> seancarl, are you there and are you sean carl grech? :)
<seancarl> yes
<Seveas> excellent!
<Seveas> your intro please
<popey> (for future reference, i wonder if we should send out a courtesy mail to all potential new members, 24 hours before the meeting - something to think about)
<Seveas> popey, +1
<forumsmatthew> popey, +1
<seancarl> Hi i'm SeanCarl Grech, I've been using ubuntu since 7.10 Desktop was released. Now I distribute Ubuntu CDs and promote Ubuntu. I offer free support for Ubuntu users in Malta. I'm helping out other users on ubuntuforums.org. I create wallpapers in order to share with other Ubuntu users. I'm also spending some time translating to Maltese. I've started the Malta LoCo team, joined linuxmalta.tk and curently we're also planning to meet soon.
<Seveas> are ther other maltese people to vouch for seancarl ?
<Seveas> if so, speak up now :)
<seancarl> no, no one....
<popey> i like the loco logo :)
<seancarl> we are quite few at the moment
<seancarl> and only have 2 or three developers
<seancarl> thanks
<PriceChild> btw launchpad still seems to be having troubles, but plonk an "edge." before it if you've got acces and that looks fine
<Seveas> <ignorance>
<popey> i see 4 translations within the last month
<Seveas> which country is malta part of?
<popey> none before
<Seveas> </ignorance>
<seancarl> europe
<seancarl> malta is a country
<popey> it's an island country
<seancarl> small island
<phanatic> it is a country :)
<Seveas> ah
<Seveas> what's the main language?
<popey> maltese :)
<ogra> maltesian :P
<seancarl> i'd like to know if there are members already (didnt find anyone yet... :(     )
<forumsmatthew> Seveas, lol
<popey> seveas.brain.is.mt
<emgent> lol
<emgent> apt-get install brain
<seancarl> thanks!
<Seveas> so anyway...
<Seveas> I like to see locoteams emerging everywhere :)
<seancarl> are you maltese seveas?
<Seveas> but I'm not too convinced yet that seancarl should already be an Ubuntu member
<popey> i see the MT loco is quite new
<PriceChild> Seveas: looking at the google map, looks like nobody in the group claims to be from there.
<Seveas> seancarl, no, I'm absolutely ignorant about malta as you saw :)
<seancarl> xD
<popey> indeed, I'd like to see a more sustained effort over the next 2-3 months
<seancarl> i'd like to have more help...
<popey> so far I see very little activity within the team
<seancarl> infact...
<forumsmatthew> I've only known one other person in Malta using Ubuntu. He kind of disappeared a while ago
<Seveas> seancarl, help doesn't fall out of the sky, you've got to recruit people :)
<seancarl> we are still recruiting in fact
<popey> great!
<forumsmatthew> I would like to see a little more evidence of contribution, but I think this is a good beginning and I am hopeful
<popey> keep at it!
<seancarl> but in malta there are few people
<popey> seancarl: what's the population of Malta?
<forumsmatthew> about 400000
<seancarl> i convinced some developers to start learning linux coding... and thy will join
<popey> wow, that is small
<seancarl> 402668 in 2004
<Seveas> seancarl, I'm quite pleased to see that you are trying to be active and start a locoteam. I think continue building the team for a few more months and gather "evidence" of what you are doing for the community (presentations, photos of demonstrations, testimonials)
<seancarl> very small...
<seancarl> thanks
<popey> I would encourage you to contact the Locos near you for support
<seancarl> could i get help and tips organising?
<popey> italy, spain, greece/turkey?
<seancarl> a ok thanks
<PriceChild> I think there's a LoCo mentoring process isn't there?
<forumsmatthew> tunisia, if your French or Arabic is up to it
<popey> I'd love to see you back in 2-3 months with a bigger team!
<emgent> uhm one question..
<seancarl> we've already got contact with libya
<seancarl> but i'm not sure if they have a loco team
<emgent> seancarl: why you joined all team in 2008-10-2 ?
<seancarl> sry :S what do you mean?
<Seveas> seancarl, the italians have an excellent locoteam, they might be able to help you get started
<popey> i dont think Lybia does have a loco
<Rafik> popey, no loco in Lybia yet
<emgent> i dont understand massjoin argh
<emgent> https://launchpad.net/~seancarlgrech/+participation
<popey> yes, I agree, contact the Italian LoCo - they have been around a long time, and may well have good advice for you
<seancarl> seveas, thanks... will surely contact them then!
<popey> emgent: i think that's a by-product if being new
<Seveas> ok, let's do the votes now even though it's mostly formality
<Seveas> -0 from me
<popey> 0
<forumsmatthew> 0
<seancarl> honestly i'd also love to see the team functioning before becoming a member
<popey> thats the best way to do it seancarl
<popey> seancarl: means you have people who can come and support you when you _do_ go for membership :)
<emgent> seancarl: if you work in the team is good, but for me it`s a little early to request membership
<PriceChild> -1
<phanatic> 0 from me
<popey> please do keep up the good work!
<seancarl> i supposed so...
<Seveas> stgraber, ?
<forumsmatthew> I hope to see you back in a few months, with a Maltese cheering section
<emgent> seancarl: anyway i'm italian :)
<seancarl> wanted the membership just to have more contacts, i just didnt think about contacting other locos...
<toros> seancarl: I help you if you want in building community...
<seancarl> thanks for your help and tips!
<emgent> seancarl: why ? you can contact anyway other locos
<Seveas> riot_le_, you're up now
<riot_le_> yeah
<riot_le_> Hi, i'am Martin Kaufmann. I work for the Ubuntu-Events Team (Germany),
<riot_le_> i also organize the Meetings of the Ubuntuusergroup Leipzig. I am working with Ubuntu since 5.04.
<riot_le_> I also involved with the Linux4Afrika-Projects which sends
<riot_le_> Terminalserver-Thincliens-Solutions to Afrika, based on Ubuntu
<seancarl> no, it just didnt pop in my mind of doing so!
<Seveas> riot_le_, did you bring a cheering section?
<riot_le_> no, lux who become Member last time isnt avivable today cause anyone prepare for the Ubucon tomorrow
<seancarl> will return in a few months, hopefully with a well functioning team :) , if i wont come, will encourage some one who'd be more qualified in the team...
<forumsmatthew> riot_le_, tell me more about Linux4Afrika
<forumsmatthew> that sounds interesting
<emgent> good job riot_le_
<riot_le_> Linux4Afrika sends about 600 PCs (Thinclients) and 20 Server to Tansania at this time
<riot_le_> we also looking forward to Aethopia and Mozambique
<forumsmatthew> how do you find the people/schools that you send them to?
<riot_le_> where the next projects will taking place
<riot_le_> we are searching for thrustworthy partners in this Area
<popey> http://martin-kaufmann.net/blog/?p=18 I have seen this picture somewhere - I think stumbleupon took me to your blog once :)
<Seveas> Your community work looks good, but I'm only seeing a list. I'd much rather see some pictures, testimonials or a cheering section
<riot_le_> waiting
<riot_le_> thats the Pics from 1 Year Ubuntu Leipzig: http://nasi.nowhere.ws/galery/
<stgraber> Seveas: sorry, that'd have been a 0 too (I'm quite busy at work now :( )
<riot_le_> the gallery was down but was upped the last days so i dont included in the wiki-page
<Seveas> stgraber, fair enough
<popey> \o/ beer and laptops
<Seveas> riot_le_, do you work a lot with dholbach or juliux?
<forumsmatthew> and bratwurst!!
<emgent> popey: and cisco linksys!
<emgent> :D
<juliux> sorry?
<Seveas> hey juliux :)
<juliux> how can i help?
<riot_le_> yes i changed some emails with dholbach about his UDW-Talks
<amireldor> hello all
<Seveas> juliux, this is EMEA membership approval board. riot_le_ (Martin Kaufmann) is up and I'm missing a cheering section
<riot_le_> i started bugfixing after his Talks about it
<Seveas> riot_le_, that's only 22 bugs touched so far, not enough activity to warrant membership
<juliux> Seveas: he is doing a good job leading the local ubuntu team in leipzig
<Seveas> juliux, good enough for membership?
<juliux> Seveas: i think yes
<Seveas> +1 from me then
<popey> and there's the cheer
<popey> :)
<juliux> Seveas: he is doing it now more then one year and he is coming to all ubuntu events in the region and helps there witht the booth
<forumsmatthew> I like what I see, and that tipped me over to a +1
<riot_le_> seveas: i just started bugfixing ;-)
<Seveas> forumsmatthew, well said
<PriceChild> Cheers are invaluable.
<juliux> Seveas: he is also coming and helping at ubucon this weekend
<popey> riot_le_: join 5-a-day :)
<popey> +1 from me for sustained community commitment
<stgraber> +1
<phanatic> +1
<juliux> yeah join the ubunt-de 5 a day team;)
<juliux> 7window 26
<popey> fail
<Seveas> juliux, join less channels :P
<Seveas> PriceChild, your vote please
 * popey hands juliux a shift key
<riot_le_> popey: 5-a-day is cool but i dont have any day time to do it
<popey> riot_le_: it's not easy, that's true
<juliux> Seveas: busy with ubucon:(
<juliux> popey: thanks
<PriceChild> Yup I'm going to go +1 too!
<Seveas> juliux, you can leave here again if you wish, riot_le_ is now approved ;)
<Seveas> congrats riot_le_ !
<Seveas> amireldor, you're up
<amireldor> hello then
<riot_le_> thank you very much
<juliux> congratulations riot_le_
<juliux> riot_le_: see you soon;)
<forumsmatthew> congratulations, riot_le_
<juliux> Seveas: thanks;)
<emgent> riot_le_: welcome in ubuntu family :)
<Seveas> (amireldor, if you want amir@ubuntu.com, you'll need to have the launchpad account amir ;))
<riot_le_> thank you Julix see you tomorrow
<amireldor> Seveas can't there be an exception this time?
<forumsmatthew> Seveas, and some evidence of community involvement... amireldor your wiki page is pretty sparse
<Seveas> amireldor, well, I don't think it'll be necessary yet. Launchpad karma is low and I see no evidence of a sustained and significant contributions on your wikipage
<Seveas> -1 from me
<forumsmatthew> -1
<stgraber> -1
<amireldor> maybe it's too early for me to become an official ubuntu member
<PriceChild> -1
<emgent> correct
<forumsmatthew> amireldor, probably. Do more, document it, and then come back and we will look with interest.
<popey> yes, I'd come back in 2-3 months with a more fleshed out wiki page
<popey> -1
<Seveas> amireldor, then please continue contributing (and documenting those contributions :)) and apply later. The -1's we're throwing now don't mean you are not welcome :)
<forumsmatthew> Seveas, +1
<amireldor> yes i understand, thanks
<phanatic> -1, a more detailed wiki page would help a lot when you re-apply
<amireldor> i'll take it into account phanatic
<Seveas> Moving on, sianis is up next
<sianis> Hi. I am IstvÃ¡n Nyitrai. I am 22 years old, living in Hungary. I am working with Ubuntu since 5.04 beta. I am active member of Hungarian LoCo, Ubuntu Hungarian Translators and developer of nightmonkey.
<Seveas> phanatic, can you save me some time this time and voice your opinion? :)
<kelemengabor> sianis: what's that nightmonkey thing? :)
<phanatic> please don't blame me for the hungarian horde of ubunteros :) these guys do an amazing job...
<hunmaat> As a new member, I support the membership of Sianis. His work is essential in localisation.
<sianis> kelemengabor: you know it well :)
<Seveas> phanatic, hordes of ubunteros should be praised, not blamed :)
<popey> 102 translations..
<kelemengabor> sianis: but they don't
<emgent> ...
<popey> ..all in the last 3 months
<sianis> popey: not all on launchpad
<forumsmatthew> This helps with nightmonkey...  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DdtpLpHtml
<popey> ah
<phanatic> popey: he's helping with his tools a lot
<PriceChild> mvo gives a nice cheer on the wiki page for that
<Seveas> so, where can we see results/stats of nightmonkey?
<popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DdtpLpHtml Seveas under "In Actino"
<popey> *action
<sianis> Seveas: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/nightmonkey/
<Seveas> ah
<popey> wow, thats an impressive tool, i like it
<emgent> nice job sianis
<forumsmatthew> I like it when people do things. I like it even better when people do things that make it easier for others to help
<popey> i can see how that would be helpful in translations
<forumsmatthew> a good tool is a wonderful contribution
<sianis> thank you
<popey> +1
<forumsmatthew> +1
<Seveas> when was nightmonkey created?
<emgent> 2008-08-23
<emgent> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~sianis/ddtp-lp-html/devel/changes/5?start_revid=25
<sianis> Seveas: at this summer
<PriceChild> That looks quite shiny, I'm going for +1 too.
<emgent> all bzr commit by sianis
<Seveas> I'm going for -1. You're obviously doing lots of good work, but it's all very recent. I'd like to see this continue for a bit longer
<phanatic> Seveas: he was one of the original members of our loco back in 2005
<phanatic> s/original/first
<emgent> Member since:  2005-06-15
<Seveas> phanatic, I see no documentations of contributions that go back more than a few months
<kelemengabor> Seveas: actually, I founded ubuntu-l10n-hu team with him!
<emgent> correct
<kelemengabor> that was before breezy, and he was always around
<phanatic> the people cheering for him are here to fill in those tiny undocumented gaps :)
<kelemengabor> mostly with translations
<kelemengabor> and he only recently started to code cool stuff
<Seveas> phanatic, 3 years of gap followed by 2-3 months of activity isn't shiny. It's not that I don't trust you but I'd like to see it documented
<sianis> Seveas: I don't remember everything, kelemengabor has better memory
<phanatic> Seveas: sure, i understand your concern.
<popey> ok, PriceChild / stgraber ?
<Seveas> PriceChild, had a +1
<Seveas> phanatic, can I assume +1 from you?
<popey> oh yes
<phanatic> yes, +1 from me
<Seveas> stgraber, is probably busy at work again
<PriceChild> I knew I'd regret the use of "shiny".
<Seveas> let's move on to njpatel while we wait for stgraber's vote
<njpatel> hey
<njpatel> Hey guys, my name is Neil J. Patel and I live in Northwood, UK. I'm am user interface designer/application engineer working at Canonical. Currently my major two projects are Ubuntu Netbook Remix and Avant Window Navigator. I'm also involved in upstream GNOME and am working on/helping out on various UI stuff (like the recent hackfest) and also on things like desktop-wide progress notifications, some of which will hopefully land in Jaunty.
<njpatel> woops, that's longer than three lines, sorry
<forumsmatthew> dude! I love AWN
<Seveas> njpatel, when did you join canonical?
<njpatel> Seveas: end of Feb this year
<njpatel> forumsmatthew: heh, thanks :-)
<emgent> njpatel: uhm i dont see community work
<emgent> only devel work, same to stefanlsd
<njpatel> emgent: yeah it's mostly devel work
<phanatic> that's correct
<Seveas> +1 from me. For canonical employees that work in this area, sustained and significant contributions are almost guaranteed.
<njpatel> emgent: community aspect is really just helping people get started with UNR, helping get it on old laptops and netbooks that don't some preinstalled with Ubuntu
<emgent> njpatel: yep it`s usual for all ubuntu lovers :)
<Seveas> emgent, contrary to stefanlsd's application, njpatel documents what he works on and his LP karma is evidence of work
<emgent> Seveas: i dont understand your vote at this point
<njpatel> we've made some nice headway with the Acer Aspire One and eeePC community, lots of them are switching over. Awesome to see :-)
<emgent> Seveas: it`s an devel work, not community work..
<Seveas> emgent, so I'm comfortable voting +1 here
<forumsmatthew> I think part of community participation is making ubuntu accessible to more people...
<Seveas> emgent, but it's development work that is easily verifiable by us.
<forumsmatthew> I'm +1
<popey> emgent: it doesn't have to be pure communty work
<popey> +1 from me
<emgent> Seveas: by stefanlsd too IMHO
<emgent> ask kees and jdstrand if you like.
<PriceChild> emgent: we should ask those two for evidence of stefan's work?
<emgent> sorry but i dont understand this decision..
<Seveas> emgent, then he should bring kees and jdstrand here to vouch for him.
<jdstrand> I am here
<jdstrand> we are talking about stefanlsd? for what?
<njpatel> I'm hoping to do some more community work in-and-around London by attending some lugs to see if I can get more people interested in developing. Hopefully starting at the end of this month
<Seveas> anyway, we're now talking about njpatel, not stefanlsd
<phanatic> +1 for njpatel
<jdstrand> ok, ping me if you need me
<Seveas> PriceChild, stgraber: your vote on njpatel?
<emgent> for me it`snt correct, i love njpatel devel work in ubuntu && canonical, but stefanlsd working in devel too.
<PriceChild> -1 from me. I said earlier that I don't feel we're the people to assess development contributions and I think that still.
<emgent> please see:
<popey> hmm, tricky
<emgent> https://launchpad.net/~stefanlsd/+related-software
<emgent> https://launchpad.net/~njpatel/+related-software
<Seveas> PriceChild, we've done so before though, for people were we felt comfortable with judging their contribution
<PriceChild> Seveas: the times I can remember, there was usually other community work around it, and I see little of that here.
<emgent> and njpatel and stefanlsd are in the same status, not documented work in the community.
<PriceChild> emgent: We've read and understand your concerns.
<stgraber> Seveas: +1
<PriceChild> Seveas: regardless, despite my evilness I think there is a decision :)
<Seveas> stgraber, was that for njpatel or sianis? :)
<stgraber> Seveas: njpatel
<stgraber> Seveas: +1 for sianis too
<stgraber> and I need to run now ... sorry
<Seveas> PriceChild, the person who wrote the windows ubuntu installer
<Seveas> I think we approved him on dev-only
<Seveas> (grepping mail for details)
<popey> "wubi guy"
<popey> :)
<Seveas> that one yeah. I'm terrible with names :)
<phanatic> that means sianis got accepted?
<persia> xivulon
<Seveas> hang on a sec phanatic
<popey> Agostino Russo == Wubi Guy
<emgent> yep
<njpatel> he's a cool dude, met him at UDS prague
<emgent> ago in launchpad if i remembe rwell
<Seveas> PriceChild, from my june 4 mail to the counculs:
<Seveas> Judging MOTU achievements
<Seveas> -------------------------
<Seveas> In the first meeting we rejected an applicant because we thought MOTU
<Seveas> achievements should be judged by the MOTU. We refined that statement a
<Seveas> bit since we do feel comfortable approving members if we feel we can
<Seveas> judge their MOTU contributions appropriately, which imho we indeed could
<emgent> s/remembe rwell/remember well/
<Seveas> not for Mantas but we could do for some of this weeks candidates.
<Seveas> anyway: sianis and njpatel, both congrats on membership!
<popey> njpatel: see you at UDS Jaunty :)
<sianis> thank you
<forumsmatthew> congrats, you two
<forumsmatthew> with that, I have to leave...sorry
<njpatel> wow :-)  Seveas, all, thanks!
<phanatic> congratulations to both of you
<Seveas> last candidate for today is jernst
<njpatel> popey: see you there :-)
<jernst> Hello, My name is Jonathan Ernst (jernst). I'm 27 and live in Geneva, Switzerland. I'm a computer scientist and I'm using Linux since 1999. I'd like to be an Ubunut member because I feel I belong to this community and can contribute something back. I'm member of Ubuntu Swiss Users and Ubuntu French Translators. I'm mostly working on French l18n (I translate most GNOME packages upstream too), Wine, advocacy, user support, system adminis
<Seveas> hmm, we lost two people now
<popey> we're over time too
<Seveas> popey, phanatic, PriceChild: shall we 'interrogate' jernst but leave the decision for later? Let forumsmatthew and stgraber vote by mail?
<jernst> I'm ready to be interrogated ;-)
<popey> well.. given jernst only added himself today
<popey> I think he should wait :)
<Seveas> heeh
<PriceChild> oo-ef
<Seveas> popey, seeing the wikipage I think that's a good idea. But we shouldn't wait 2 months with the next meeting :)
<phanatic> indeed :)
<popey> :S yes
<popey> 2 weeks?
<Seveas> jernst, what I meant was: you've seen how valuable we think testimonials are. Please collect a few and bring some people to the next meeting to cheer for you
<PriceChild> Silly lag. Hmm 4 is still enough of us.
<popey> i would _like_ to go, I have some testing to do..
<Seveas> PriceChild, technically yes, but I'm not too comfortable with that. We're usually able to gather 6 council members :)
<jernst> Seveas: ok will do. As you checked the wiki page already, do you want me to add something for the next meeting ?
<popey> jernst: would you mind if we "bumped" you to the next meeting?
<jernst> popey: I was quite excited to participate in this meeting. But if I have to wait, I'll wait
<Seveas> jernst, you've now seen how it works, you'll be the best prepared candidate in the next meeting and might pass with flying colors :)
<jernst> Seveas: I think vuntz could "cheer" for me but he seems to be idle
<PriceChild> Sounds like a plan.
<Seveas> jernst, get him to cheer on your wikipage. A cheer from vunts is worth at least +0.5 from me :)
<Seveas> ok, meeting adjourned
 * Seveas hammers
<phanatic> shall we settle on the next meeting now, or we'll do that on the mailing list?
<jernst> ok thanks
<Seveas> (will summarize and bump launchpad tomorrow)
<popey> 2 weeks today?
<Seveas> phanatic, could you get a doodle up and mail the list?
<phanatic> Seveas: sure.
<persia> Could I make a short post-meeting request of board members?
<jernst> you can put me back in the list for the next meeting
<Seveas> we're missing 2 people, so we can't really decide now
<Seveas> persia, please do
<persia> Would it be possible to move the meeting an hour or two earlier?  Currently there's only three hours difference between EMEA and Americas, and I suspect that makes timing difficult for some applicants.
<persia> I know Asia/Oceania has been getting some applicants from both Americas and EMEA, and wonder if the closeness of the times isn't part of the reason behind that.
<popey> i suspect part of the reason was our slackness
<popey> the fact that we hadn't had a meeting for a while
<Seveas> persia, I think the 2 months between the last meeting and this one is the reason for that
<persia> Well, surely that's a factor too :)
<popey> i know arc riley bumped his membership application around until he got a team that met
<Seveas> but I also wouldn't say no to starting a bit earlier ;)
<popey> (which is fair)
<popey> i could start 1 hr earlier
<popey> any earlier and I'll be cycling back from the train station
 * Seveas off, the wife is whining about why I haven't given her any attention for over an hour
<popey> get you, bandying about the word "wife" :)
<popey> because you can
<Seveas> :)
<Seveas> wife went to bed now, the whining stopped
<Rafik> can I say something ?
<jernst> ok bye everyone, see you in two weeks
<Rafik> Seveas, popey, persia : what about a membership mentoring concept ? it will make the work of approval boars much easier
<Seveas> Rafik, I tried that a while ago and it took too much of my time. If you want to start a mentoring project, feel free to do so :)
<persia> Rafik, I don't have any objection, although I'm not likely to have any time to assist in coordination.  I'd strongly recommend focused mentoring, based on area of interest though.
<Rafik> Seveas, persia, it can be at least a pre-application review to avoid getting -1 because if an empty wiki page ... and it will be great if it's another Ubuntu member from the LoCo who mentor the candidate
<Rafik> s/because if/because of
<Seveas> Rafik, the guidelines for wikipages are on the wiki, a link can be found on the agenda
<Rafik> yep
<Seveas> it's almost harder to miss it than to see it, which is why I often think that people with an empty wikipage just aren't really motivated enough to apply properly
<Rafik> Seveas, +1
<Rafik> Seveas, that's why the monitoring can help in.
<Seveas> Rafik, mentoring will help in the 'not enough information, but getting there' cases. For completely empty wikipages, my only answer is -1 ;)
<Rafik> Seveas, thanks :)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 16 Oct 23:00: Americas Membership Board | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 21 Oct 11:00: Community Council | 21 Oct 14:00: Technical Board
<lfaraone> Hey, is it OK if I'm a bit late for the meeting?
<persia> lfaraone, Which meeting?
<lfaraone> (Like say arriving at 23:20 or 23:30 UTC)?
<lfaraone> persia: Americas board.
<persia> It's usually OK, unless you're first on the list.  If you miss your turn, you'll be unhappy.  Just make sure you come further down in the agenda before the meeting.
<persia> Personally, I'd recommend trying to be in the top 5, but remember that you're not supposed to push yourself above anyone who put their name in earlier (although choosing to push yourself down in the list oughtn't be an issue)
<lfaraone> persia: There are only 4 peopel today.
<lfaraone> *people
<lfaraone> persia: and apollock never shows up (so I've heard).
<lfaraone> persia: which brings it to 3.
<persia> Then put yourself last, and try for 23:20 :)  I suspect last will be later than that, but it's playing safe.  4 candidates in a meeting oughtn't be too many, but it depends on the candidates and the questions from the board.
<lfaraone> persia: Thanks. (/me is away, be back hopefully before I'm called)
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Americas Membership Board Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 21 Oct 11:00: Community Council | 21 Oct 14:00: Technical Board
<eightyeight> right in time. didn't get dinner though.
<pleia2> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-17
<pleia2> ok, meeting time!
<darkhole> Hi.
<pleia2> who all from the council is about?
<pleia2> atoponce, pedro_
<pleia2> vorian?
<atoponce> present
 * pedro_ waves
<pleia2> ok, we have quorum!
<cody-somerville> \o/
<MagicFab> hi all
<atoponce> sweet
<darkhole> hi
<MagicFab> 4:30am here in Delhi, hoping it's worth it :)
<pleia2> hollman: are you here?
<atoponce> it's alwaysworth it
<hollman> ye
<hollman> *yes
<hollman> hello
<pleia2> hollman: ok, you're up :)
<pleia2> brief intro + links please
<hollman> ok
<pleia2> hollman?
<atoponce> hollman: still with us?
<hollman> Hollman enciso from Bogota Colombia, estudent before of Ing. of systems contact administrator Ur-Co
<hollman> https://edge.launchpad.net/~hollman
<hollman> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HollmanEnciso
<MagicFab> hollman has been my protege for some time now :) he ROCKS - I passed him the torch when I stepped down being a loco contact for u-co
<hollman> :D
<MagicFab> he's a bit English-shy so be a bit patient :)
<atoponce> np
<pleia2> reading wiki page now, nice work hollman :)
<atoponce> hollman: where do you see yourself with ubuntu in the next 2 years? in other words, what's the primary thing you'll be doing to contribute to ubuntu?
<hollman> pleia2, tnks
<MagicFab> In fact we were discussing how memberships can be evaluated for people that don't speak English at all (just sayin')
<pleia2> MagicFab: something to be brought up to the CC, I expect
<MagicFab> pleia2, we have a few candidates in ubuntu-co :D
<hollman> I see like a leader ypersona recognized Colombia level with the enlos projects that work and that seguire working
<darkhole> :) big person!!
<atoponce> hollman: you do a lot of translations! very nice! good launchpad karma, and good wiki page.
<cody-somerville> hollman, when did you first start contributing to Ubuntu?
<hollman> cody-somerville, hummm since 2006
<hollman> excuseme in 2007
<hollman> flisol 2007 Bogota Colombia
<MagicFab> I had a hard time convincing him & darkhole to apply ;)
<hollman> in 2006 i only help the people on mailing list
<darkhole> jeje..
<hollman> recently i work in the first ubucon with all the u-co community
<hollman> and darkhole
<atoponce> hollman: what does it mean to you to be an ubuntu member?
<hollman> are going to be the first big event of Ubuntu in Bogota
<pedro_> hollman: so the what's are your future plans? cuales son tus planes a futuro? you can answer in spanish if you like to
<hollman> Pride, work, ..
<pedro_> i'll translate that for you
<pedro_> s/the/ /
<hollman> :P
<hollman> Espero poder liderar el Ubuntu-co por un muy buen tiempo, seguir sacandolo adelante y que seamos reconocidos como una comunidad en Colombia
<cody-somerville> +1 para el trabajo loco del equipo y la evidencia de liderazgo
<pleia2> great work hollman :) +1
<pedro_> continue leading the ubuntu-co team for a long time and make them being recognized as a community in Colombia
<pedro_> yeah +1 from here also
<atoponce> definitely. +1
<pleia2> congrats hollman!
<hollman> thanks all
<hollman> :D
 * MagicFab waves!!
<atoponce> hollman: congrats
<pleia2> darkhole: upi
<pleia2> bha
<pedro_> congrats hollman ;-)
<pleia2> typing
<pleia2> darkhole: you're up :)
 * atoponce notes that the hotel wireless is being spotty, and may be slow to respond
<hollman> gracias a todos, y creanme que todos los dias trabajare en pro de Ubuntu como lo he venido haciendo
<darkhole> Ok
<darkhole> Great hollman!!!
<darkhole> Mmm..
<darkhole> Hi, I'm Julian Alarcon, from Colombia, i'm part of the Colombian Team.. I'm now an admin of this LoCo Team and also an official translator of Ubuntu to Spanish, now I'm workng at the side of Hollman like admins of Ubuntu-Co
<darkhole> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Juli%C3%A1nAlarc%C3%B3n
<darkhole> https://edge.launchpad.net/~alarconj/
 * pleia2 likes "plant a tree" :)
<darkhole> jeje..
<pedro_> what kind of tree ? :P
<darkhole> some from here, bogota city..
<MagicFab> darkhole helped a lot define many processes we have in Ubuntu-co - we came up with a specific process to prepare our loco members for Ubuntu membership
<darkhole> we always have a meeting, like admins, to organize the Team..
<atoponce> darkhole: are you looking to becoming a motu? you mention teaching packageing on your wiki
<darkhole> Yes..
<hollman> thanks to darkhole who has more experience than me, we have streamlined many processes and projects of co-U
<darkhole> I like his.. but I have to practice first :) (with my ppa)
<darkhole> In Ubuntu-Co we have in ths days many traffic of the mailing list..
<darkhole> We have 400+ people in the ist..
<pedro_> darkhole: how did you get involved with the translation team?
<MagicFab> I *love* these guys. Their work means I was able to almost disappear from u-co as I went to other projects
<darkhole> Mmm, I was working in Suse Team..
<darkhole> TYranslating the wiki..
<darkhole> But, i was alone..
<darkhole> jeje..
<darkhole> I don't feel the community work. so, I try Ubuntu when I have Internet connection
<atoponce> darkhole: what would it mean to you to be an ubuntu member? what will you do with this membership?
<darkhole> I like this, this will make me. first.. happy :)
<atoponce> k. :) after that?
<lfaraone> Hey, I'm Luke Faraone. I'm part of the DC LoCo team. I've promoted Ubuntu at various fests, as well as help to triage and fix some bugs. In this cycle, I've been working to get the Sugar Project <http://sugarlabs.org> 's packages up-to-date in Intrepid.
<darkhole> And, very responsible..
<lfaraone> (oops, pressed enter too soon()
<darkhole> I'm (with hollman) the Team's examples to follow..
<darkhole> And, with more desire to continue working for Ubuntu
<atoponce> darkhole: it's a big responsibility. memberships mean a lot where i come from.
<darkhole> I like so much the community environment, in everywhere.. :)
<atoponce> if you think you did a lot of work now, wait until you become a member. :)
<darkhole> Jeje, here, a Gift form Ubuntu-Co.
<darkhole> http://picasaweb.google.es/hollman.enciso/CampusPartyDias6Y7#5217907463142633458
<darkhole> Ubuntu passion!!
<hollman> yea!!!
<MagicFab> atoponce, careful what you wish for :) darkhole is relentless
<atoponce> heh
<cody-somerville> +1
<pleia2> +1
<atoponce> +1
<pedro_> +1
<darkhole> :p
<pleia2> congrats darkhole! :)
 * MagicFab pours the Aguardiente del Valle
<darkhole> !!! :)
 * pedro_ hugs the colombian community
<darkhole> thanks pedro!!
<Technoviking> hi all
<hollman> thnks pedro_
<darkhole> thanks MagicFab.. and thanks to all folks
<pleia2> ok lfaraone, you can go now :)
<lfaraone> pleia2: heh, thanks.
<lfaraone> I'm Luke Faraone. I'm part of the DC LoCo team. I've promoted Ubuntu at various fests, as well as help to triage and fix some bugs. In this cycle, I've been working to get the Sugar Project <http://sugarlabs.org> 's packages up-to-date in Intrepid.
<lfaraone> (as I've already said... :)
<atoponce> :)
<lfaraone> http://launchpad.net/~lfaraone , and http://wiki.ubuntu.com/LukeFaraone are my links.
<pleia2> lfaraone: what are your immediate plans, and more long term ones?
<lfaraone> pleia2: Well, I plan on working better with upstream for the next cycle in getting those packages in the repos before feature freeze (we had to get a FFE last time), and eventually (in a year or so) plan to apply for MOTU.
<pleia2> cool
<atoponce> lfaraone: i see a lot of work with sugar labs. what else have you contributed?
<lfaraone> atoponce: I've been triaging a bit.
<pleia2> lfaraone: you didn't happen to go to HOPE with maco and everyone, did you?
<lfaraone> atoponce: I'm also very active in ubuntu promotion, I've helped other members do installfests and handed out CDs on SFD.
<crimsun> Speaking as a former Ubuntu core dev who is mentoring Like in bug triaging alongside Mackenzie "maco" Morgan - he's a quick learner.  Not only has he been enthusiastic about helping "evangelise Ubuntu" for quite some time, but he does so consistently, helpfully, and graciously.
<crimsun> Luke, even.  I can't type.
<atoponce> crimsun: cool. thx
<lfaraone> pleia2: No, I missed it.
<lfaraone> pleia2: But I'd like to be able to go next time.
<pleia2> cool, just curious :)
<pleia2> lfaraone: do much work with the dc loco?
<lfaraone> pleia2: Yes, I've helped with a lot of their events recently.
<mattva01> pleia2: I can confirm that he has been very helpful at DC Loco events
<pleia2> great :)
<atoponce> lfaraone: what will ubuntu membership mean to you?
<maco> ive got a photo of him at the Takoma Park Folk Festival, where we were tabling...but I left my camera at home, so i cant imagebin it right now...oops
<pleia2> maco: no visual proof then? hmm ;)
<maco> crimsun took the photo, ask him
<pleia2> hehe
 * MagicFab loves imagebinettes :)
<lfaraone> pleia2: It'd mean I'd be able to contribute more to the community,
<atoponce> +1 here
<pleia2> excellent work lfaraone, looking forward to your future work too +1
<Technoviking> +1
<mattva01> +1
<cody-somerville> +1
<pedro_> yeah +1
<pleia2> congrats lfaraone!
<atoponce> lfaraone: congrats
<lfaraone> pleia2, atoponce, pedro_, Thanks so much!
<darkhole> im happy, you are happy, we are happy!!
<lfaraone> And you too, mattva01 and maco :)
<pleia2> great work everyone
<atoponce> congrats everyone! keep up the great work
<darkhole> Thanks..
<darkhole> We will..
<darkhole> Bye!
<darkhole> See u..
<lfaraone> Bye, darkhole.
<maco> lfaraone: dont forget to do your dcteam 5adays ;)
<lfaraone> maco: Of course. I've been a bit swamped recently, but I'll do some more this weekend.
<MagicFab> lfaraone, bravo :)
<maco> lfaraone: im joking, school's getting me too
<maco> but we're only 500 bugs from jumping kubuntu-de ^_^
<lfaraone> maco: Just wait until I add all the sync request bugs I've filed and poked people about :)
<lfaraone> maco: (not to mention the 30 or so bug reports spawned from those syncs!)
<darkhole> bye to all and thanks!!
<hollman> bye all, thnaks!!!
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 21 Oct 11:00: Community Council | 21 Oct 14:00: Technical Board | 21 Oct 15:00: Server Team
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 17 Oct 19:00: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 11:00: Community Council | 21 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 21 Oct 14:00: Technical Board | 21 Oct 15:00: Server Team
<pitti> hi
<heno> hey
<lool> hi there
<slangasek> morning
<Riddell> ho
<dendrobates> o/
<pgraner> Hey
<lool> slangasek: Bumped bug #281610 to RC in the last hours
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281610 in xorg-server "[regression, intrepid] Xorg servers broken "No core keyboard" and "failed to initialize core devices"" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281610
<slangasek> ok
<lool> Xorg unusable on plenty of ports and xvfb failing the builds
<sbeattie> hey
<slangasek> 'lo
<slangasek> ok - ScottK says he's going to be about 20 minutes late; I've pung mdz and cjwatson, so hopefully they'll be along soon - let's get started
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions
<cjwatson> here, sorry
<slangasek> let's batch through these quickly; several of these were still outstanding as of a few hours ago, at least
<slangasek> * follow-up discussion about bug 273833 on #ubuntu-devel
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273833 in v86d "v86d missing from initramfs" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273833
<pgraner> slangasek: we reverted backto vesafb from uvesafb
<slangasek> I see there was some further discussion in the bug log and it was marked as invalid, but I'm not sure whether it's actually been resolved to everyone's satisfaction?
<cjwatson> the tail of the bug seems unsatisfactory :-/
<mdz> slangasek: I'm here
<slangasek> mdz: heya
<pitti> usplash works fine again even with my external monitor now
<slangasek> mdz's comment in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/v86d/+bug/273833/comments/14 in particular suggests that this isn't altogether solved
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273833 in v86d "v86d missing from initramfs" [High,Invalid]
<slangasek> do we need to reopen the bug for another look?
<slangasek> pgraner: thoughts?
<mdz> slangasek: I made a pass over all of the kernel bugs and summarized in email, I'm forwarding you the thread now
<slangasek> mdz: great, thanks
<pgraner> slangasek: its my understanding by reverting back to vesafb we are same as hardy again.
<mdz> slangasek: I'm a little concerned that reverting may unmask regressions which weren't found earlier
<mdz> but I don't know
<BenC> mdz: reverting?
 * BenC is jumping in the middle here
<mdz> BenC: uvesafb->uvesafb
<mdz> er
<mdz> ->vesafb
<BenC> ah
<BenC> mdz: considering vesafb hasn't changed since pre-hardy, the possibility of regression is very low
<cjwatson> I'm certainly *happier* with having vesafb than I am with uvesafb
 * ScottK is here.  It turns out I didn't need the time I'd budgeted for "Wait for the teenager to be ready".
<mdz> my understanding is that we've gone from vesafb (disabled by default, used by some people) to uvesafb (never worked unless manually fixed up, even for people who had enabled vesafb) to vesafb again (re-enabling it for people who had it turned on)
<cjwatson> since we already knew intrepid was regressing for people
<BenC> Yeah, uvesafb was actually causing boot hangs in some cases
<mdz> as long as it doesn't get worse for people who were using vesafb, and not many people have it turned on, it should hopefully be OK
<BenC> mdz: No, we had vesafb disabled completely
<BenC> mdz: and even for people who didn't use uvesafb, it was still causing problems
<mdz> BenC: if someone added vga= in hardy, and is now upgrading to intrepid, they'll continue to have it enabled
<mdz> but will not have tested it since the switch to uvesafb
<BenC> vga= != vesafb
<mdz> for x in $(cat /proc/cmdline); do
<mdz>         case ${x} in
<mdz>         vga=*)
<mdz>                 FB="vesafb";
<mdz>                 OPTS="";
<mdz>                 ;;
<cjwatson>         case ${x} in
<mdz> BenC: /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-top/framebuffer
<cjwatson>         vga=*)
<cjwatson>                 FB="vesafb";
<cjwatson> err, what he said :)
<BenC> I understand, but if uvesafb was loaded, it handled vga=
<BenC> maybe I misunderstand what you meant
<BenC> yes, it will continue to work in intrepid now that vesafb is there
<mdz> BenC: my point is that we essentially switched off vesafb for the whole cycle, and are now re-enabling it
<mdz> we don't know if it has regressed during that time
<BenC> mdz: true, but as noted, it hasn't changed code wise at all
<mdz> my gut feeling is that few people use vga=
<mdz> so I think this is probably an acceptable risk, but wanted to call it out for review
<pgraner> BenC: other things around it have changed that might cause problems
<cjwatson> my gut feeling is that this is the lesser of two evils
 * BenC agrees
<mdz> ok then
<cjwatson> mdz: vga= use was increased because it used to be available in the gfxboot menu, BTW
<slangasek> ok; moving on then
<cjwatson> it no longer is, but it's still in some people's menu.lst as a result
<pgraner> BenC: Need you to take point on any bugs that come in on this and jump on them right away
<slangasek> * pitti to discuss a fresh langpack -base upload with Arne, related to bug #273489
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273489 in rosetta "Remaining Intrepid template approvals" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/273489
<BenC> pgraner: got it
<slangasek> pitti: I think this part was done, right?
<pitti> ROsetta is currently doing a full export
<cjwatson> there's still a blockage on the KDE language packs being fixed
<pitti> Arne will upload on his morning, I'll approve them from the queue on my morning, so they can build over the weekend.
<cjwatson> I have a summary in my paste
<pgraner> [ACTION] BenC  to take point on any bugs that come in on vesafb and jump on them right away
<pitti> oh, they are still not approved? I thought that was done now
<slangasek> [ACTION] BenC to take point on any bugs that come in on vesafb and jump on them right away
<MootBot> ACTION received:  BenC to take point on any bugs that come in on vesafb and jump on them right away
<cjwatson> pitti: they are, but there's a bit of faff involving the language-pack flag that wasn't getting set
<cjwatson> anyway, later
<slangasek> ok, let's defer that part of the discussion down to the Foundations team slot
<slangasek>  * desktop team to follow up on bug 145360
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 145360 in compiz "compiz.real crashed with SIGSEGV" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/145360
<slangasek> I looked at the bug and saw lots and lots of follow-up from people /not/ on the desktop team... :)
<pitti> Michael talked with upstream, and nobody has a true solution right now; however, the crash consistently happen
<pitti> s on logout only, so once we disable apport, it won't actually be a pressing issue.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek>  * pgraner to look into firmware in restricted vs. main (279669/269926)
<pitti> other than that there wasn't much progress, I'm afraid :(
<cjwatson> that should be sorted
<slangasek> pgraner: I closed one of these bugs because I know it's fixed, I wasn't sure about the other
<cjwatson> I've taught the installer to include the new package names
<pgraner> slangasek: BenC was doing the work
<pgraner> BenC: can you comment?
<slangasek> i.e., bug #279669 is still open
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 279669 in linux "ipw2200 firmware moved to restricted" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/279669
<cjwatson> I think 279669 is done ...
 * BenC is reading
<pgraner> cjwatson: ack
<BenC> 279669 is done
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to close out bug #279669
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to close out bug #279669
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<slangasek>  * cjwatson to either pull his finger out with NM and X regression lists or send them to mdz
<BenC> the only firmware bug right now is bug #284405
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284405 in linux-firmware "Copyright file is incomplete" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284405
<slangasek> BenC: right, that's on the list :)
<mdz> slangasek: cjwatson passed these to me, but just a few hours ago and I've not had a chance to do anything yet
<cjwatson> I did a bit of X (one of them turned out to be a regression in gtk, which I punted over there with a suggestion it be fixed post-release), but punted the rest to mdz recently
<mdz> at this point I'd much rather give them away (have bryce and asac already reviewed them?)
<cjwatson> I also asked asac to look through the NM list, since it turned out he hadn't seen it yet
<slangasek> alrighty
<mdz> but I will do it if no one els ecan
<cjwatson> I'll make sure bryce reviews the list later today
<cjwatson> sorry it was late
<slangasek> [ACTION] cjwatson to have bryce review the NM regression list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to have bryce review the NM regression list
<cjwatson> err. X.
<lool> I hope asac likes Xorg stuff
<slangasek> [ACTION] ^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W cjwatson to have bryce review the X regression list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W^W cjwatson to have bryce review the X regression list
<slangasek> :P
<slangasek> cjwatson: and you'll have asac review the NM ones?
<cjwatson> yes, already did
<slangasek> ok
<asac> ack
<cjwatson> that is I already asked him to do so and he said he would, haven't checked the output yet
<slangasek> [ACTION] asac to review the NM regression list
<MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to review the NM regression list
<slangasek>  * kernel team to review and sponsor linux-rt (281276)
<slangasek> bug #281276
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 281276 in linux-rt "Upgrade linux-rt to 2.6.27" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/281276
<slangasek> still open
<mdz> if it's not already there, it seems clear that it hasn't made it
<BenC> Didn't know they were waiting on sponsor
<BenC> I'll review and upload if everything is ok
<mdz> kernel freeze was yesterday
<ScottK> persia mentioned to me that they were needing some more testing, I think.
<BenC> mdz: this doesn't affect our kernel source
<ScottK> Probably ready tomorrow
<mdz> BenC: separate source package in universe?
<persia> Rather, that I was likely to upload tomorrow with more testing if the action item wasn't done by the kernel team.
<slangasek> mdz: yes
<BenC> mdz: right, build-deps on the main source
<cjwatson> the original purpose of kernel freeze was to let us build CDs, which isn't something linux-rt would break
<cjwatson> and d-i
<mdz> even so, we do have pressing work to do on the main kernel which should take priority
<persia> Well, it would break the Ubuntu Studio DVD, but that has a workaround in place for now anyway.
<cjwatson> persia doing it would avoid that problem, if the kernel team is happy with him doing that and if davidm can spare him
<BenC> I'm happy trusting persia to to just upload
<persia> OK.  I'll just confirm with the two members of MOTU Release who were testing, and push that.  Happy to take an action on it.
<slangasek> [ACTION] persia to look at uploading linux-rt (281276)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  persia to look at uploading linux-rt (281276)
<slangasek> last outstanding item
<slangasek>  * cjwatson/Keybuk to review last-good-boot data from BenC
<BenC> That's rather moot now that it is disabled
<pgraner> slangasek: that feature was pulled
<cjwatson> indeed so
<pgraner> slangasek: it will get a overhaul for jaunty at UDS
<slangasek> I thought that was the case before this was actioned, so wasn't sure - ok, thanks for confirming
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA team
<slangasek> heno: hi
<heno> hi
<heno> * sbeattie, schwuk, ara and I have been running a series of upgrade tests in VMs with a good number of packages installed
<heno> * sbeattie is running debcheck on the archive daily
<heno> * schwuk has set up a backup mirror for ISO downloads. Please contact him for details if you should get blocked on cdimage. Note: it's just a fallback, not intended as a second cdimage
<heno> * We are going through the RC bug list, trying to reproduce issues or verify fixes
<heno> * Leann was in Montreal this week, where she did 8.10 manual testing and chased up open hwct bugs. She confirmed a fix for bug 271370 and got that in before the freeze.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 271370 in linux "Dell Dimension 9200 stalls when rebooting after installing 20080917" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/271370
<heno> * Ara will be there next week. She will continue the regular manual testing, and follow up on RC bugs that need wider testing, including the iwl3945 bug. Please let us know about other specific issues that would benefit from wider testing.
<slangasek> (looks like team reports are offset ~30min right now, for those keeping score)
<heno> * Everyone: please refresh your ISO image collections to be ready for testing next week! See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Isoscript
<dendrobates> ScottK would like to synk a bugfix 0.94 -> 0.94.1-
<dendrobates> sorrk
<cjwatson> heno: any progress on the grub UUID testing?
<heno> cjwatson: no. did you put a testcase on the bug?
<pgraner> cjwatson: I tested here with several methods, firewire, usb and it works
<cjwatson> heno: no, I thought evand had already mailed you with detailed directions
<pitti> dendrobates: practicing dvorak? :-)
<cjwatson> "May I ask that your team affords some time in testing to cover testing
<cjwatson> that installations on all our supported filesystems and installations
<cjwatson> on systems with multiple disks still works with this change in place?
<cjwatson> It's absolutely critical for USB-based installs and it entered the
<cjwatson> release rather late.
<cjwatson> "
<cjwatson> pgraner: that's good
<heno> cjwatson: got it. sbeattie can we look at this after the meeting?
<pitti> my amd64 test box has two internal IDE hard disks, and a standard install uses both of them; is that good enough?
<heno> I'll ask ara to look as well in Montreal
<sbeattie> heno: yes definitely
<cjwatson> pitti: yes
<heno> I have a USB CD drive I can try with
<slangasek> sounds good
<pitti> me as well
<maestrolinux> http://s2.ar.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=19732
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://s2.ar.bitefight.org/c.php?uid=19732
<ScottK> ^^^ is spam.
<heno> sbeattie, bdmurray: any issues to add to the QA report?
<lool> Someone please kick maestrolinux
<sbeattie> not from me
<slangasek> fwiw, I've distilled out the list of bugs that are both tagged regressions and have been nominated for release
<bdmurray> me neither
<slangasek> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+nominations?field.tag=regression-potential
<slangasek> [LINK] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+nominations?field.tag=regression-potential
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/intrepid/+nominations?field.tag=regression-potential
<heno> ok, QA team done
<slangasek> I'm giving high priority to getting these reviewed; bdmurray, if you have any time to help that'd be great too
<bdmurray> slangasek: with the link you sent?
<slangasek> bdmurray: the link above, yes
<bdmurray> got it
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop team
<slangasek> pitti: let me paste in the list of milestoned bugs first?
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/280997: bluez 4.x support for KDE
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/274639: jockey crash
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 280997 in kdebase-workspace "solid-bluetooth needs update for bluez 4.x" [High,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274639 in jockey "jockey-gtk crashed with SystemError in markInstall()" [High,In progress]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/278112: screensaver doesn't start with compiz
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278112 in compiz "Screensaver doesn't start" [Medium,In progress]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/269904: nvidia/compiz problems
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/212098: "easy" file sharing and logout/login
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 269904 in nvidia-graphics-drivers-177 "Screen refresh problems with nvidia on intrepid" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 212098 in nautilus-share ""easy" file sharing not notifying about logout/login" [High,Confirmed]
<pitti> ok; in general, pieces are coming together, lots of bug fixing last week
<pitti> Specs: all done, no further changes planned
<pitti> RC Bugs:
<pitti>  - #278112 (screensaver doesn't start with compiz): patch available and got positive testing; I built a package with the patch, works fine for me, too;  Michael has some other fixes, he'll talk to upstream about the patc
<pitti> h and upload today
<pitti>  - #269904 (nvidia/compiz problems): compiz workaround uploaded today, actual bug in nvidia driver remains, but is not RC any more
<pitti>  - #274639 (jockey crash): I already believed this to be fixed until yesterday, when more reports came up; looks easy to fix, I'll just need to grab half an hour on it
<pitti>  - #212098 (nautilus-share not notifying about required session restarting): We agreed on how a solution should look like and posted it to the bug report; a community member, Didier Roche (didrocks) said he'd work on this.
<pitti>  - #280997 (KDE4 bluetooth breakage): upstream currently does not have time to do the porting; Mario is working on it, but his port might not arrive in time. Riddell currently plans to fix this in an SRU.
<pitti> oops, 212908 is actually a bit stale
<slangasek> yes, 212908 is hardy carry-over :/
<pitti> he didn't manage to work on it, but it's not really an RC bug any more, I think
<pitti> the workaround with the default "sambashare" group at least helps
<pitti> Intrusive changes:
<pitti>  - GNOME 2.24.1 is due on October 22, the Sebmaster and his little packaging army are standing by
<pitti> On further notes, I worked on archive consistency today, particularly on component-mismatches. I roughly kille
<pitti> d half of the "source/binary main promotions", but there is lots of more work to do. Assistance appreciated.
<pitti> [end of report]
<slangasek> however, the user still has to re-authenticate to PAM at least once in order for the shares to be usable
<seb128> speaking about 2.24.1 is that ok if I approve my own uploads?
<pitti> slangasek: really? even if he already was in sambashare?
<seb128> they will likely package some tarballs rolled early during the weekend
<slangasek> seb128: please have the release team review them so we know what's changing
<slangasek> pitti: yes; until libpam-smbpass is installed, there's no SMB password hash for the user
<slangasek> pitti: (otherwise I would've closed out the bug already)
<pitti> ah, I see
<seb128> slangasek: hum ok, so no point for me to work during the weekend to get early testing I guess
<slangasek> seb128: I'll be around this weekend
<pitti> slangasek: so why did we actually put in that "sambshare group by default" into the installer?
<cjwatson> please also *don't* push GNOME 2.24.1 through on Oct 22
<pitti> slangasek: I guess that dialog will add the user to sambashare anyway
<slangasek> pitti: so that the user doesn't have to logout/login in order to *configure* the shares
<pitti> slangasek: ah, ok
<slangasek> initgroups(), etc
<cjwatson> do what you can on Oct 20, or leave it in the queue until after the RC is out
<pitti> slangasek: I'll talk to didrocks again, but at this point I don't think we'll squeeze in a patch by intrepid
<slangasek> pitti: but let's take the rest to the bug then
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> I'll be out on Saturday but around some of Sunday
<pitti> slangasek: agreed
<slangasek> 280997 in SRU> unfortunate :/
<pgraner> slangasek: need to add a Desktop one... I can't hold until the end
<slangasek> but AIUI, unavoidable if we wanted bluetooth working for intrepid
<slangasek> pgraner: go ahead
<pgraner> slangasek: I keep seeing Consloe-kit-daemon crashes 2 to 3 times a day today 2 alone
<slangasek> really?
<pitti> pgraner: are they reported in LP?
<slangasek> I haven't seen any ck crashes since my last patch to it
<pitti> I fixed two recently, but it has never actually crashed for me so far
<pgraner> slangasek: some of the older ones are I'll get the ones I had today in after the meeting
<pgraner> pitti: seems to happen on login
<slangasek> [ACTION] pgraner to file LP reports for console-kit-daemon crashes
<MootBot> ACTION received:  pgraner to file LP reports for console-kit-daemon crashes
<pitti> pgraner: ok, thanks; if they have an obvious stack trace, we can probably do something about them; I suspect they will already  be known, though, all of the 200ish crash reports were really just for four different stack traces
<mdz> it was crashing for me earlier in the cycle, but has been OK for a while now
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile team
<lool> 284354 ignore ath5k on samsung Q1 - either we need a new wifi/ath5k backport (I think kernel team is preparing one) or we need to shuffle PCI ids in kernel to s
<lool> elect madwifi instead of ath5k
<lool> xxxxxx linux-headers-lpia not installable; pending along misc lpia kernel uploads; amitk working on them; we discussed actions during our call to fix this today or over the WE in the mobile team
<lool> xxxxxx can't mount USB keys in xinit CK sessions (works from gdm sessions), session not active; needs filing, diagnosing, fixing
<lool> xxxxxx totem doesn't work and crashes xorg in mid images; persia investigating and will file a bug soon
<lool> pgraner: 284354> will you still push wifi updates before intrepid?
<slangasek> so, ah, some bug numbers missing there?
<mdz> ...
<lool> Yeah; mentionned to me this morning and had only meetings since
<pgraner> rtg: You plan here?
<rtg> LBM is done, but it doesn't work with NM.
<lool> Ah so it will be in the backports package
<rtg> I think we should prefer madwifi over ath5k in the stock release
<lool> That's not ok for lpia, where we don't have backports
<rtg> ath5k has some real problems with noise.
<lool> rtg: Can you take 284354?  amitk is really busy with lpia kernel uploads
<rtg> so, I'm working with Dan Williams on the NM issues. Its also being driven by Atheros.
<heno> http://usshop.ubuntu.com/category.php?catid=1
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://usshop.ubuntu.com/category.php?catid=1
<lool> apart of that, linux-headers-lpia was depping on linux-headers and so is blocking uploads of other lpia kernel sources
<lool> That's being worked on by amitk and rest of team today and over WE
<lool> The two other bugs are recent and need to be filed and diagnosed properly
<lool> will take action to do so asap
<rtg> lool: I don't think I've got time for that one.
<slangasek> I'll be happy to see those land so we can zero out the out-of-date list :)
<lool> That's all for mobile; generally in a good shape apart of kernel
<slangasek> lool: when you've found those bugs, you'll target/milestone them?
<lool> slangasek: Likely the USB one as we're using startx to login on mid, dunno about totem
<lool> Might be vesa specific in which case perhaps not
<slangasek> ok
<lool> It might be "RC" but I didn't reproduce yet (not at home) and can't tell
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel team
<slangasek> bug list:
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/284405: incomplete copyright file for linux-firmware
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284405 in linux-firmware "Copyright file is incomplete" [Critical,In progress]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/259157: atheros/madwifi, orinoco support
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 259157 in network-manager "[MASTER 0.7 regression] atheros/madwifi and orinoco drivers not supported" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/263059: boot failures with iwl3945
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 263059 in linux "[regression] 2.6.27-7 sometimes fails to boot (iwl3945 issue?)" [High,In progress]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/267295: hang on boot, GeForce4 Presario
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267295 in linux "2.6.27-2.3 fails to boot on Compaq Presario S6010V: " [High,Triaged]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/284354: ath5k PCI quirk for Q1
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284354 in linux-lpia "ignore ath5k on samsung Q1" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/182489: atheros on eeepc
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/250139: iwl4965 panic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 182489 in linux-restricted-modules-2.6.24 "Atheros wireless (AR5007) not working on various laptops, including the ASUS Eee PC" [High,In progress]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 250139 in linux "iwl4965: Can not allocate SKB buffers" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/265049: liveCD hang on Compaq Presario
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 265049 in linux "Intrepid CD Live Hang on Compaq Presario" [High,Triaged]
<slangasek> lots of wifi...
<lool> 182489> relates to madwifi/ath5k on Q1U
<pgraner> slangasek: be gentle
<BenC> rtg can comment on most of the wife
<BenC> err wifi
<cjwatson> I don't quite know what to say to that one. :)
<slangasek> rtg: you mentioned working with Dan Williams on this stuff, when do you expect fixes to land?
<rtg> I think we're getting traction ion the i3945 issue.
<rtg> slangasek: no idea.
<rtg> I've not even been able to scratch it yet.
<slangasek> ok
<rtg> I chatted with Atheros yesterday, and they are also motivated to fix it.
<pgraner> slangasek: 284405 is done
<slangasek> pgraner: not according to LP? :)
<lool> pitti: #285054 for the CK USB key in startx issue mentionned earlier
<pgraner> slangasek: BenC????
<BenC> slangasek: No, it isn't
<BenC> slangasek: I split out firmware, and we have no complete copyright file for it
<slangasek> sure, I'm aware of the bug :)
<pgraner> slangasek: sorry my bad I thought that was Incorrect copyright file in a package
 * pgraner needs to look at the bug before inserting foot in mouth
<slangasek> so the ones that aren't wifi are #265049 and #267295; do we have anything to discuss there?
<BenC> pgraner: lrm is fixed, that was the one you were thingking of
<pitti> lool: answered; let's continue this in the bug, thanks for filing it
<pgraner> BenC: yep
<slangasek> bug #265049
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 265049 in linux "Intrepid CD Live Hang on Compaq Presario" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/265049
<slangasek> bug #267295
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 267295 in linux "2.6.27-2.3 fails to boot on Compaq Presario S6010V: " [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/267295
<BenC> slangasek: we need to add bug #261318
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261318 in xorg "Regression: new Toshiba Laptop Support (tlsup) driver breaks Toshiba hotkeys; input device does not support 'kbd' input handler" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/261318
 * BenC is reading 267295
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to review/milestone 261318
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to review/milestone 261318
<slangasek> ok, overall questions: are these targeted bugs an accurate representation of what the kernel team is working on right now, and are they a realistic workload for between now and release (considering we're past kernel freeze and have only very small windows for kernel uploads between now and final)?
<pgraner> do we have any Preseario HW in house?
<heno> pgraner: not in Montreal
<BenC> hehe, 267295 has a scan of a hand written back trace
<mdz> dedication
<pgraner> slangasek: for the most part, we have not been looking at the Preseario ones at all other than asking to test on newer revs
<BenC> first time for that
<heno> and I don't turn up many with a general LP search either
 * pgraner mutters this is where a hw db is invaluable
<heno> none at all for S6010V (appart from the one mentioned on that bug)
<heno> pgraner: agreed
<BenC> After talking with rtg, I wonder how many of our mysterious crashes will go away once FTRACE is disabled
<slangasek> ok, so the S6010V is definitely not milestoning material at least
<rtg> BenC: those will be hard to pin on that root cause.
<pgraner> BenC: good point, what does it buys us if we leave it enabled
<mdz> rtg: Keybuk says he had some success debugging 263059
<mdz> and has updated the bufg
<slangasek> BenC, rtg: in that case, when can we get the ftrace change uploaded so we can have people re-test?
<rtg> mdz: definitely.
<slangasek> is disabling ftrace an ABI bump?
<rtg> nope
<heno> slangasek: agreed
<Keybuk> rtg: it looks to me (reading the code) that the driver leaves the pci device disabled
<Keybuk> and only enables it if the kill switch is off
<rtg> Keybuk: correct
<BenC> pgraner: It buys us nothing on usability
<Keybuk> and that state really upsets the kernel if it's init'ing another pci driver at the same time
<BenC> it's meant to help debug the kernel
<pgraner> BenC: if there are no abi concerns lets up it disabled and uploaded.
<BenC> Keybuk: kernel should be doing ref-counting on disable/enable though
<mdz> BenC: from the documentation, it seems meant to help all sorts of debugging, not just the kernel itself
<rtg> slangasek: its in 2.6.27.y stable tree as well.
<mdz> but it is presumably a new feature in 2.6.27 so I'm not attached to it
<pgraner> BenC: when doing new features we need to have a test plan and test coverage *early* to avoid this late cycle crap
<rtg> pgraner: we get new features with every kernel.
<BenC> pgraner: FTRACE has been enabled all cycle
<cr3> pgraner: it would be nice if these tests could be automated in the form of command line scripts
<BenC> pgraner: plus this sort of thing is hard to unit test
<slangasek> AIUI ftrace is meant to be a replacement for ptrace, /eventually/; userspace isn't there in intrepid, so that really buys us nothing to have it enabled
<cr3> pgraner: and I don't think autotest is sufficiently reliable to cover new features, I think it is more like a rite of passage
<rtg> slangasek: we definitely need a kernel upload today.
<pgraner> rtg: yep and we need evaluate to see if they give us anything, we are at the point that thking things in just cuz they are free seem to cause more issues more times than they are worth, unless we are committed to debug, test & patch
<slangasek> rtg: ok
<BenC> Ok, if we are doing a kernel upload today, then we need to conclude the fate of tlsup and toshiba_acpi
<pgraner> BenC: status of each pls?
<slangasek> pgraner: did you see the question earlier, about whether the targeted bug list accurately reflects what the team is working on, and if this workload is manageable?
<Keybuk> BenC, rtg: what I find vaguely interesting is that the wireless card PCI device actually *goes away* when you toggle the kill switch
<BenC> mdz: You mentioned that toshiba_acpi needed acpi-support changes, but I think you may have been confusing the bug about modprobe options that weren't compatible with the unpatched toshiba_acpi
<pgraner> slangasek: I answered above
<Keybuk> sufficiently that an ifconfig on it returns "No such device"
<mdz> BenC: I remember it needed some userland fixing, which we opted not to do as we were switching to tlsup
<slangasek> pgraner: sorry, I'm not sure what line was an answer to that then
<mdz> BenC: did you look up the bug number(s)?
<slangasek> pgraner: "for the most part", I guess?
<BenC> mdz: No, I'm just going on recollection of when tlsup was switched to
<pgraner> slangasek: We are working on all but the Preseario ones due to no hardware and lack of response from the testers, we have asked for output on command and nothing (in one of the bugs) didn't look that deep in the other
<slangasek> ok
<mdz> BenC: https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/183883
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 183883 in linux-meta "hardy toshiba_acpi: Unknown parameter `hotkeys_over_acpi' (dup-of: 77026)" [Undecided,New]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 77026 in linux-source-2.6.22 "Update toshiba_acpi.c to version 0.19a" [Medium,Fix released]
<mdz> is one I found with a quick search
<mdz> I think there may have been others
<BenC> mdz: that's the one I was referring to. Using the patched version of toshiba_acpi like we've had in hardy in prior, that problem goes away
<mdz> BenC: so that problem was actually caused by dropping a toshiba_acpi patch, rather than the switch to tlsup?
<mdz> that one was reported against  hardy btw
<BenC> mdz: correct, the patch to toshiba_acpi had to be forward ported for some kthread changes, which I did before switching to tlsup
<rtg> mdz: the orignal patch didn't compile, so we dropped it in the transition to Intrepid.
<slangasek> let's move on, further toshiba discussion out-of-band please
<BenC> So I have a compilable and working toshiba_acpi to drop in
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations team
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/261977: nv driver selected on unsupported hardware
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/282037: wrong grub target with USB
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 261977 in dell "nv is chosen even if it doesn't support the card" [Undecided,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 282037 in grub-installer "grub-installer defaults to (hd0) which is the installation medium in the case of USB installs" [High,Confirmed]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/150872: removable drives in fstab
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/273489, https://bugs.launchpad.net/259180: langpack template imports
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/278963: fglrx crashes system on upgrade
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 150872 in partman-target "Installer should not list removable media in /etc/fstab" [High,In progress]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/274124: race condition with PA on GNOME startup
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 273489 in rosetta "Remaining Intrepid template approvals" [Critical,Fix released]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/204272: totem-gstreamer PA crash
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/264462: blank display with radeon
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 278963 in fglrx-installer "fglrx kernel module crashes system hard during hardy to intrepid upgrade" [Critical,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 274124 in pulseaudio "Race condition in pulseaudio loading for GNOME session" [High,Confirmed]
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/277526: post-installation language support download doesn't work
<slangasek>    * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/270002: multi-finger tapping broken
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 204272 in pulseaudio "totem-gstreamer crashed with SIGSEGV in pa_stream_write()" [High,Confirmed]
<slangasek> cjwatson:
<cjwatson> 261977: X server nv autodetection; summary in bug, bryce just offered to take over, waiting for him to get up
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 264462 in xserver-xorg-driver-ati "Radeon Driver fails to load on 2 Sep daily [ATI HD3870]" [Unknown,Confirmed]
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 277526 in ubiquity "[8.10] Post-installation language support download does not work" [High,Triaged]
<cjwatson> 282037: grub UUIDs for USB installs; fixed in ubiquity, needs to be fixed in d-i with similar logic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270002 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Multi-finger tapping broken" [High,In progress]
<cjwatson> 150872: wrong /cdrom device in /etc/fstab for USB installs; fixed in ubiquity, needs to be fixed in d-i with similar logic
<cjwatson> 273489: remaining template approvals; while there are still some left I don't think any are release-critical, so I downgraded the bug
<cjwatson> 259180: broken KDE language packs; jtv tried an export this morning on staging but it's still missing some pieces due (conjecturally) to the language-pack flag not being set when staging was last synced; he's trying another export which should finish in ~5 hours
<cjwatson> 278963: fglrx crash on upgrade; latest reports are that this is fixed, although Brian Watson reported a slightly different but related problem which has yet to be diagnosed
<cjwatson> 274124: pulseaudio race condition; we have a horrible, horrible workaround and crimsun suggests that the real fix is unacceptably invasive, so will probably go with the workaround
<cjwatson> 204272: totem crash with pulseaudio; may be similar to 275233 which is (a) inconsistently reproducible to start with (b) believed not reproducible following the fix for 274124
<cjwatson> 264462: ATI driver failure on certain models; patches near end of report, need to get something uploaded so we can test it
<cjwatson> 277526: language support failure after installation; this is my personal top priority right now
<cjwatson> 270002: synaptics multi-finger tapping broken; fix in wgrant's PPA
<cjwatson> other issues:
<cjwatson>   grub UUID support enabled across the board, asked for testing; have asked evand to prepare a patch to back that out except for USB installs in the event of problems
<cjwatson>   may need to do a few more manual translation uploads given the late translation imports
<cjwatson> I've asked bryce to step in here in case there are any X queries, but he isn't usually an early bird
<mdz> wasn't 282037 meant to be addressed by the grub UUID change?
<mdz> oh, it's still open for d-i
<slangasek> hrm, what I read of 204272 didn't leave me thinking it was related to 274124
<cjwatson> I would be willing to be wrong about that
<cjwatson> there were such comments about 275233 which seemed applicable ...
<bryce> heya
<slangasek> moin
<cjwatson> Luke has been unable to reproduce 204272 though
<slangasek> yeah
<cjwatson> which leads me to believe it may be racy
<slangasek> I think I accidentally reproduced it yesterday /after/ asking for a test case
<slangasek> but not under a debugger yet
<slangasek> so I'll be poking at that today
<cjwatson> thanks
<slangasek> any other critical issues that are hiding from me?
<pitti> how's CD size these days?
<slangasek> separate topic :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server team
<dendrobates> ScottK would like to sync the release canadate of clamav and then do an update after release.  it is a bug fix release that comes out on 3 Nov.  it is 0.94 -> 0.94.1.  He believes it's low risk.
<dendrobates> bug 283368
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 283368 in base-installer "linux-virtual cannot be installed with an amd64 iso" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/283368
<cjwatson> meh, I wasn't aware of 283368
<slangasek> * https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/272232: passwd change returns success with pam_ecryptfs
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 272232 in ecryptfs-utils "passwd - passwords do not match but updated successfully" [Medium,In progress]
<dendrobates> cjwatson: brand new.
<slangasek> ^^ that's the only bug I'm aware of, kirkland and I are working on it
<cjwatson> dendrobates: fairly easy though
<dendrobates> also bug 227848 and bug 284107
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 227848 in open-iscsi "boot order wrong for iscsi" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/227848
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 284107 in partman-target "Filesystem on iSCSI should have the _netdev option in /etc/fstab" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/284107
<ScottK> When it comes to clamav, we are kind of screwed.  They just released 0.94.1 RC with final planned for 03 Nov.
<kirkland> slangasek: also the ecryptfs mount counter
<cjwatson> seems a bit late for 284107 though
<ScottK> Generally they're pretty good about not having regressions/breakage on their .x releases.
<dendrobates> cjwatson: I agree, probably won't get to it, but kirkland is trying to get 227848
<ScottK> I'd like to upload the RC this weekend with the intent of getting 0.94.1 final into -updates (assuming testing goes well).
<slangasek> ScottK: is there a FFe request for the RC?
<ScottK> slangasek: I haven't filed it yet.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to file a FFe request for clamav RC
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to file a FFe request for clamav RC
<kirkland> cjwatson: fwiw, the fix that I'm looking at for 227848 would actually use the _netdev bits in /etc/fstab
<cjwatson> ah
<kirkland> cjwatson: s/use/need/
<ScottK> The Debian git repo for clamav got a bit broken and I'm waiting on it getting fixed tonight or tomorrow to have a package.
<kirkland> cjwatson: from Debian, something like http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/58885/ in the iscsi init script
<slangasek> cjwatson: should I assign 283368 to you?
<cjwatson> slangasek: I already did, and have committed a fix
<slangasek> heh :-)
<dendrobates> cjwatson: in 20 seconds!
<dendrobates> FWIW, +1 on the clamav sync.
<slangasek> cjwatson: is it your thought that 284107 is too intrusive/risky?
<dendrobates> and that is all fo rme.
<slangasek> or "doesn't fit in the installer schedule"?
<cjwatson> slangasek: I didn't realise it was needed for something else
<slangasek> ok
<cjwatson> and it seemed a bit late to be fiddling with mount scripts
<slangasek> ok then, I think we've covered everything there
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<ScottK> No great excitement.
<ScottK> We already covered the -rt kernel.
<ScottK> I have one late library transition I'm working on.  libspf2 got a major facelift after Dan Kaminsky found a DNS related buffer overflow.
<ScottK> It looks safe and only one rdepend in the archive.
<slangasek> ScottK: bug #250425 is milestoned and targeted, but I don't think that this is actually happening for 8.10 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 250425 in zsnes "zsnes crashes with buffer overflow on startup" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/250425
<slangasek> libspf2> ack
<ScottK> We've patched the buffer overflow, but it fixes a lot of other unfortunate stuff.
 * ScottK looks
<ScottK> I'll check with wgrant and see if he's doing anything on it.
<slangasek> ok
<ScottK> Is someone going to process sync's again before release?
<ScottK> I know of at least one pending with security implications (because I filed it)
<cjwatson> is somebody working on the remaining libv4l stuff?
<slangasek> I believe I have time Monday to do some syncs
<ScottK> OK
<cjwatson> and there are several open security bugs
<ScottK> cjwatson: I'll check.
<slangasek> I pung kees last night about the v4l stuff, sounds like no one is working on them yet
<ScottK> I'll look into that too.
<cjwatson> bug 260918, it has five tasks on /ubuntu/intrepid so is quite noticeable
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 260918 in xawtv "needed: libv4l and associated application patches (or "gspca stopped working in 2.6.27")" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/260918
<nijaba> mathiaz: pvb bugs triagged, couple of incompletes for you
<slangasek> those packages don't seem to be holding up any NBS removals, so I guess it's just a question of them not being usable in intrepid if no one gets to them...
<ScottK> I'll see if I can give v4I a push.
<slangasek> usable for video, that is
<slangasek> ScottK: thanks
<slangasek> [ACTION] ScottK to give v4l transition a push
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ScottK to give v4l transition a push
<slangasek> [TOPIC] General feature update
<MootBot> New Topic:  General feature update
<slangasek> this should be a no-op, but here's your opportunity to speak if not
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Known regressions
<MootBot> New Topic:  Known regressions
<slangasek> [LINK] http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta#Known%20Issues
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/intrepid/beta#Known%20Issues
<slangasek> all but one of the bugs we highlighted as a caveat for beta have been fixed, and the last bug is already covered above; good job, folks
<ScottK> I suppose there's no need to revist Kubuntu and Bluetooth here.
<slangasek> beyond that, we've already covered regressions in-line above
<mdz> slangasek: great news, agreed
<cjwatson> wish I knew how bug 270423 got fixed, but I'm not going to complain
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 270423 in ubiquity "[kde] doesn't show dialog after installation" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/270423
<slangasek> ScottK: the bug for that is milestoned and was discussed above; regrettable circumstances :/
<heno> cjwatson: I've tried hard to reproduce it again but failed :)
<slangasek> er, s/milestoned/targetde/
<slangasek> er, both
<slangasek> anyway
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Hardware testing
<MootBot> New Topic:  Hardware testing
<heno> * I've prepared reports for vendors. I was on a conf call with one major vendor yesterday who seemed happy with the reporting and the testing website at this point.
<heno> * There is still room for improvement on reporting though - schwuk is preparing a list of hardware we have in the labs with detailed hw specs
<heno> cr3: can you report in more detail on testing progress?
<slangasek> cross-hardware summary report?  please? :-)
<heno> slangasek: still WIP I'm afraid :(
<cr3> Most laptops and desktops have been tested with automatic tests as of 20081017, servers are still pending.
<slangasek> cr3: how long until the servers are also tested?
<cr3> The two most significant bugs encountered are the NO_REBOOT flag when booting which ogasawara knows about and another I reported about usplash... checking bug #
<cr3> slangasek: before Monday for sure
<slangasek> ok
<heno> cr3: on how many machines has manual testing been done and how many are outstanding?
<heno> (Ara will be in the lab next week to help with that)
<cr3> heno: manual testing has been done on all Dell laptops and desktops which accounts for 12 machines. all the rest still need to be done
<heno> ok, thanks
<cr3> heno: I need to become a hardware vendor and request those reports too :)
<heno> cr3: indeed - they are carefully hand-crafted ;)
<slangasek> heh :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] ISO size
<MootBot> New Topic:  ISO size
<slangasek> pitti: now we can talk about ISOs :)
<slangasek> CD size is stable at the moment
<pitti> slangasek: size-wise they actually seem ok
<pitti> although they don't have much room for langpacks any more
<slangasek> I do think we need to shove some more langpacks on there, before the desktop team beats us to eating up the space <cough> :)
<slangasek> but getting rid of webkit definitely helped
<seb128> pitti: should we split the evolution documentation?
<Riddell> slangasek: langpacks may grow in size when complete ones appear
<pitti> if we can still achieve that, it woudl certainly be good
<Riddell> KDE ones certainly, gnome ones probably less so
<pitti> the GNOME langpacks shouldn't grow a lot any more, though
<slangasek> Riddell: yeah :/
<slangasek> it's been the Ubuntu disks that we've been fighting size on this cycle, though, Kubuntu has been doing ok AFAIK
<slangasek> or you've been fixing the problems before I notice them :)
<slangasek> anyway, you guys have 30-40MB more to play with for langpacks
<slangasek> so hopefully that turns out ok
<slangasek> anyway, I'll do the langpack shuffle today or over the weekend on the Ubuntu disks
<Riddell> yes, Kubuntu has lots of space, I havn't added many langpacks yet (doesn't seem like much point until they contain something)
<slangasek> [ACTION] slangasek to shove langpacks onto the Ubuntu CDs to fill them up
<MootBot> ACTION received:  slangasek to shove langpacks onto the Ubuntu CDs to fill them up
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<lool> #285058 for the linux-lpia installabilityu
<lool> fixed targets for #284368 which is also linux-lpia-meta issue
<lool> there, just wanted to get the missing mobile bugs on the record
<slangasek> lool: thanks :)
<lool> (Nothing new to discuss)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:50.
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> thanks everyone
<mdz> cr3: bug numbers for the two issues you mentioned?
<cr3> mdz: sorry, I've been looking for them and I even used ubuntu-bug to report the usplash one but I can't find them anymore. I know ogasawara has got the two bugs readily available somewhere, I'll have to ping her
<cr3> mdz: aha! the usplash one is: #263059:
<Riddell> ** Kubuntu meeting in a minutes in #kubuntu-devel incase anyone came to the wrong channel
<Nightrose> helo :)
<Nightrose> *hello even
<Nightrose> sorry for being a little late
<james_w> hi Nightrose, the meeting is in #kubuntu-devel apparently
<nixternal> yo yo
<nixternal> good timing
<persia> except it's in #kubuntu-devel
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Current meeting: Tunisian LoCo Team IRC Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 18 Oct 13:00: Xubuntu Community | 21 Oct 11:00: Community Council | 21 Oct 11:00: Asia Oceania Membership Board | 21 Oct 14:00: Technical Board | 21 Oct 15:00: Server Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-18
<charlie-tca> Good Morning
<charlie-tca> anyone else here for the Xubuntu community meeting?
<charlie-tca> Anyone here for the Xubuntu community meeting?
<njpatel> Hi, I got accepted for membership to the Ubuntu community on thursday, but I'm not sure how I get added to the ubuntu-members launchpad group, as I've got some blog posts re: UNR lined up, and I want them to be on planet ubuntu too
<njpatel> or at least, I'd like them to be on Planet Ubuntu too :-)
<james_w> njpatel: hey, did you get membership through a regional board?
<njpatel> james_w: hey, yep through the European board
<persia> njpatel: It might be a few days, but the secretary for the board should add you soon.
<njpatel> oh cool, thanks
<njpatel> impatient as usual :-)
<james_w> njpatel: any idea what maximus should do for windows with a WM class of NULL?
<njpatel> james_w: hmm, they must still have a resource attached to them, right?
<njpatel> resource-name, I mean
<james_w> bug 285452
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 285452 in maximus "maximus crashed with SIGSEGV in strstr() when performing video hardware test" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/285452
<james_w> I can see the problem, I'm just not sure if it should ignore the windows, or just not crash and try and undecorate them
<njpatel> hmm, I think it would be okay to go ahead an maximise (as long as non of the other checks fail)
<james_w> ah, it's hwtest-gtk he's using
<james_w> I can reproduce now
<njpatel> ah good
<james_w> it looks like un-decorating should be ok. I'll try and work out what the app is doing to create that window as well.
<njpatel> okay, thanks. I have to pop out for a bit, but I'll be doing more work this evening, so I'll check the bug for updates
<njpatel_away> xchat crashes, always fun
<njpatel_away> james_w: thanks for the help on this, it'll be nice to get all these little bugs fixed before 1.0.1 release next week
<james_w> njpatel_away: branch on it's way :-)
<njpatel_away> james_w: cool :-D
<njpatel_away> james_w: oh, and before I go. I've seen the Ubiquity issue before, but I thought it stopped happening once maximus started to query windows if they can be maximised. You said that you can maximise it on the desktop fine, so I'm not sure what's going on there
<njpatel_away> I'll try and figure it out when I get back, hopefully it's something silly maximus is doing, otherwise we can add it to the exception list
<james_w> thanks for looking.
<njpatel_away> oh, another thing would be to right-click on the panel and unmaximise it, and then maximise it to see if it makes a difference
<njpatel_away> np
<james_w> it would be nice to maximise it, because it's more usable like that on small screen resolutions.
<james_w> I'll try that a little later when I have a live image booted
<njpatel_away> thanks!
 * njpatel_away actually leaves now
#ubuntu-meeting 2008-10-19
<stgraber> @schedule Montreal
<ubottu> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<Hobbsee> stgraber: apparently everything's breaking today
<stgraber> yeah ...
<stgraber> @schedule America/Montreal
<ubottu> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<stgraber> ok, so it's not my fault ... it really is broken :)
<jussi01> @schedule montreal
<ubottu> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<ubottu> An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information.
<highvoltage> that's odd.
* ubottu changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/ | 21 Oct 11:00: Community Council | 21 Oct 14:00: Technical Board | 21 Oct 15:00: Server Team | 21 Oct 17:00: Kernel Team | 22 Oct 17:00: QA Team | 22 Oct 22:00: Platform Team
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-12
<stochastic> Hi all, the Ubuntu Studio developers meeting is about to get underway.  If everyone could refer to the proposed agenda here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings/2009Oct12
<stochastic> okay, so let's call this meeting to order.
<stochastic> who all is here?
<luisbg> hello everyone
<luisbg> brb
 * TheMuso is here.
<abogani_> Same for me.
<stochastic> okay, well it looks like attendance has improved from last month's attempted meeting
<stochastic> Lets look over the importance of the meeting topics.  Are there any that we should deal with first?
<TheMuso> website update
<TheMuso> I think we have had complaints that it is badly out of date.
<luisbg> TheMuso, yes
<luisbg> we have tried to find a web designer to join the team and update the web
<luisbg> and so far no success
<stochastic> I have some web experience/capabilities
<luisbg> anybody offers a different approach? or wants to take on the task of finding this person?
<luisbg> stochastic, the ubuntu studio website is done through the Drupal framework
<luisbg> do you have any experience with Drupal?
<stochastic> yes I'm familiar with Drupal, currently manage about five drupal installs
<stochastic> but I don't have access to our website, and the bzr branch changes look like they haven't been pushed in a while
<luisbg> stochastic, I can give you admin access to the website
<luisbg> with that you can update the bzr or create and push a new branch to launchpad
<luisbg> I dont really mind which version control method you use
<luisbg> :)
<stochastic> luisbg, okay, I'll treat that access with respect
<luisbg> I'm happy with versioned tarballs kept in the actual website if that means you are going to update the website more happily :)
<stochastic> well I think bzr might be fine, provided it is kept up to date
<luisbg> so ping me sometime after the meeting and I will grant you access
<stochastic> will do
<luisbg> preferably tomorrow (getting late for me)
<luisbg> happy with drupal and bzr
<luisbg> you are the man for the job ;)
<luisbg> topic finished unless someone else has something to say
<luisbg> TheMuso, ?
<TheMuso> Not about the website
<stochastic> okay, next topic: Release Artwork
<luisbg> wait
<luisbg> the website has a very quick subtopic
<luisbg> everybody in the team is comfortable with stochastic and myself selecting what the actual updates will be?
<luisbg> first it will be content update (I've tried to update all the links at every release but I'm sure there are some stuff I've missed)
<luisbg> then trying to match the aesthetics to our current themes
<luisbg> later... and if time permits it: adding new interesting content
<TheMuso> luisbg: Whatever. I am no web guru.
<luisbg> ok :)
<luisbg> so just for minutes sake...
<luisbg> attendants are TheMuso, stochastic, abogani, and myself
<luisbg> anybody else?
<luisbg> stochastic, the floor is yours again
<stochastic> okay, next topic: Release Artwork
<stochastic> I simply put this on the schedule hoping that a bit of co-ordinated release advertising might be possible
<luisbg> ckontros should know about this
<luisbg> but he isnt here
<luisbg> we've been sending missing pings for a few weeks now
<stochastic> I think 9.10 is one of the better releases we've had since 8.04 and I'd like to see much of the userbase try it out
<luisbg> he is busy adapting back home
<stochastic> ckontros did mention he'd be reading these minutes
<luisbg> TheMuso, do you remember if there was a theme change in 9.04?
<TheMuso> luisbg: There was a slight theme change in 9.04 if I remember correctly, at least on the desktop
<luisbg> that's good news
<luisbg> because more than a year ago we decided to update the art every _other_ release
<TheMuso> Right
<luisbg> except wallpapers
<luisbg> which we usually just explore flickr for some good artsy high res suitable stuff
<TheMuso> Right
<luisbg> I can take that task
<luisbg> I will ping Cory to see if he wants to do it (he usually has spotted some stuff before he even needs to LOL)
<luisbg> and since he is the Art Lead
<luisbg> confirm the above said with him and decide who takes the task of doing it
<stochastic> speaking of that, one topic from last meeting's agenda was Dashua as the new art lead
<luisbg> so I'm basically taking the task of getting the task done ;)
<stochastic> do we want to touch on Dashua?
<luisbg> we can pass this discussion through him
<stochastic> okay
<luisbg> maybe he has some wallpaper proposals or would like to do that himself
<luisbg> but the pressure of a new kick-ass theme... is for 10.04
<stochastic> I recall him saying he's planning on getting much more involved in 10.04
<luisbg> then it matches our schedule perfectly
<luisbg> in my experience watching Cory do it before
<luisbg> art themes are much more work than first expected
<TheMuso> indeed
<luisbg> stochastic, can you take the task to push Dashua a little once we close this release
<luisbg> so he starts working in the new art from day 0
<luisbg> it wont work if he lets it for the last month
<stochastic> luisbg, yes, will do
<luisbg> great! thanks
<stochastic> Okay, anything else to say on artwork updates for 9.10?
<luisbg> nai
<stochastic> Wiki documentation updates for 9.10 release?
 * luisbg hides
<luisbg> :P
<stochastic> much of our documentation id decrepit
<luisbg> yes
<stochastic> *is
<luisbg> I am aware of
<stochastic> I think this is a task that we can push the community to help out with
<luisbg> so who was the responsible of documentation?
<luisbg> stochastic, what do you mean with that?
<luisbg> do you care to explain in more detail?
<ScottL> I agreed to help with documentation and I shall
<stochastic> I mean publishing a request on our users mailing list for people to edit https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/ to get it up to date for 9.10
<luisbg> ScottL, :) hello
<ScottL> my in-laws moved in with us and I lost room/time
<ScottL> 'ello all
<stochastic> hello ScottL
<luisbg> ScottL, do you have time to manage what stochastic mentioned?
<TheMuso> Hey ScottL.
<luisbg> it consists in checking all the edits in the wiki
<ScottL> luisbg: yes, I am wrapping up other items this week and can give time to the wiki
<luisbg> ScottL, I can send an email to the user list
<luisbg> get some motion happening
<stochastic> the three pages I listed on the agenda were ones I thought were in particularly bad shape
<luisbg> and then you can join in later and review the edits
<stochastic> those might need a mention in the e-mail to the users list
<luisbg> stochastic, very true
<stochastic> okay anything else to say on Documentation updates?
<luisbg> ScottL, do you agree?
<ScottL> luisbg, yes (sorry at work)
<luisbg> ScottL, no problem
<luisbg> stochastic, next topic :)
<stochastic> alright, Kernel updates
<luisbg> this one is for TheMuso
<TheMuso> Ok. I am proud to say that we will ship 2.6.31 RT for karmic.
<luisbg> \o/
 * luisbg jumps from his chair and does the MC Hammer dance
<luisbg> Hammer Time
<luisbg> TheMuso, sorry :S, continue
<TheMuso> I am currently working on ensuring that we have the latest ubuntu mainline code + rt patch for kernel freeze, this thursday.
<TheMuso> I still need to ensure that nvidia and fglrx dkms packages build against the RT kernel, so if anyone can help with that and can help patch them if need be, that would e much appreciated.
<luisbg> and help testing
<stochastic> I'll try to find time to give the fglrx driver a test in my VM
<abogani> I hope to fix fglrx in two days.
<TheMuso> I am pretty sure that the 185 nvidia drivers are ok, since I patched them
<TheMuso> Ok bare in mind that we freeze for RC as well this Thursday, and after that, we don't unfreeze.
<abogani> Ok
<TheMuso> So it will be harder to get fixes in, and they will need good reasons.
<stochastic> so is there any update strategy for 9.10 RT kernel?
<TheMuso> stochastic: What do you mean exactly?
<stochastic> that's the actual topic on the agenda
<abogani> That point is mine
<stochastic> "update strategy"
<abogani> Who update rt kernel before release?
<abogani> s/before/after
<TheMuso> Well, I think we have to watch out for kernel SRU patches, and determine whether any of those are something we need to apply. Certainly security patches need to be taken into consideration.
<abogani> TheMuso: No way.
<abogani> Kernel team send me to MOTuers. And MOTUers send me to kernel team. And that since Intrepid.
<abogani> This is why substantially rt kernels aren't ever well maintained after release.
<TheMuso> abogani: I don't mean ask the kernel team to do anything. I mean we follow the git tree for the karmic kernel, and fi any users report similar issues with rt as have been reported against mainline, then we get the patch and get it tested, and an update released.
<TheMuso> abogani: Yes I know, which is why we need to step up our efforts to do so ourselves. There is no problem updating universe packages after release, as long as we have users affected with users that need fixes, and security updates, there shouldn't be a problem, we simply follow the update process as normal.
<abogani> FYI I never able to upload a single update through MOTU.
<abogani> Is there a way to obtain per-packages upload rights???
<TheMuso> Ok, I must admit I didn't make an effort to see the rt kernel updated with important fixes either.
<TheMuso> abogani: yes there is
<abogani> TheMuso:  By the way, Thank you for your invaluable work for RT kernel in karmic.
<TheMuso> abogani: No problem. It is easier when upstream are regularly churning out patches.
<stochastic> okay, so is that all that needs to be decided/discussed for the kernel?
<stochastic> for now anyway?
<TheMuso> I think so.
<abogani> Yes of me
<TheMuso> abogani: good call re the rt-pae flavour
<stochastic> Next Topic: Any major bugs need fixing before release?
<abogani> I'm just download fglrx-kernel-source source package...
<stochastic> Bug #374733 maybe?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 374733 in swami "Swami needs updating to latest SVN." [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/374733
<TheMuso> If it is done, it has to be done in the next 2 days.
<stochastic> eek!
<stochastic> what about as an update or backport to Karmic?
<TheMuso> Yes thats possible
<stochastic> TheMuso, were you working on this previously?
<luisbg> sorry I wont have time in the next two days to tackle that :(
<TheMuso> stochastic: I was looking into it at some point, but don't know why I didn't get back to it.
<stochastic> nor will I
<stochastic> hello ckontros
 * ckontros waves
<luisbg> hey ckontros :)
<TheMuso> Hey ckontros.
<abogani> abogani: Hi ckontros!
<ScottL> hi cory
<stochastic> so at this point the Swami update will most likely be a post-release update/backport
 * ckontros sits back and watches for now. (phone call)
<stochastic> should we put anyone in charge of tackling the Swami update?
<luisbg> stochastic, it seams like it
<luisbg> stochastic, yourself? ;{
<luisbg> :P
<TheMuso> Deending on how it gets updated in lucid, I could help with getting it backported.
<stochastic> okay I think either TheMuso or myself should be able to get it done
<stochastic> any other important bugs before release?
<stochastic> if not, then there's just two last minor discussion points I'd like to touch on
<TheMuso> Sure
<luisbg> go ahead
<stochastic> first, in ubuntustudio-menu Xjadeo, our new jack-synced video player, appears in the main Sound & Video menu
<stochastic> I'd committed a change to bzr to fix this.  if it could get pushed before release that'd be good
<TheMuso> stochastic: Right, will get to it after the meeting.
<stochastic> second, in the Desktop meta, there's a note in the code:
<ckontros> Well, if its a player, /should/ it go in the submenu?
<stochastic> * update-notifier # Re-visit for karmic
<stochastic> ckontros, it's part of the video meta package, I thought instinctively that it should be put into the submenu
<luisbg> players should go in the main list
<ckontros> stochastic: Typically, it was tools that went in the submenus. I'm not nitpicking. I shoulda mentioned the rational before.
<luisbg> editors inside audio and video subsections
<stochastic> but it's a player that is used in production
<stochastic> it doesn't play any audio itself, just syncs video playback with jack transport
<ckontros> stochastic: How so? Can you give a link or use case?
<ckontros> I /think/ I know what you're gettin' at though.
<stochastic> http://xjadeo.sourceforge.net/doc/
<stochastic> it's meant for creating soundtracks to video
<stochastic> usually used in conjunction with Ardour
<abogani> Anyone have a ATI video card for test fglrx driver?
<stochastic> abogani, yes I do
<abogani> stochastic: Arch?
<ckontros> stochastic: Ok. I see what is meant. It's not just a simple player that uses JACK.
<luisbg> abogani, all my workstations are nVidia
<stochastic> ckontros, nope, it's clearly a production tool
<abogani> luisbg: Same here! ;)
<stochastic> abogani, 32bit install right now
<luisbg> ckontros, Im starting to agree with stochastic
<ckontros> As do I.
<luisbg> his argumentation makes sense
<luisbg> :)
<abogani> luisbg: Do you have a change to test all nvidia drivers? In particularly .96 seems completely untested....
<luisbg> abogani, my company has an angreement with nVidia to make workstations with that vendor :) very hard to find ati stuff here
<luisbg> abogani, change/chance? and I will have one in a few days
<TheMuso> abogani: I have a card that I could test 173 with.
<TheMuso> for nvidia
<abogani> luisbg: Yes sorry. Too much time away from IRC :-)
<abogani> Sorry guys I have only one 185.
<TheMuso> abogani: thats fine, we test what we have to hand.
<abogani> stochastic: Do you prefer package or build procedures for fglrx driver?
<stochastic> abogani, I prefer not to touch fglrx if at all possible ;)
<stochastic> but in all seriousness, I don't have very much free time over the next few weeks to do a test.  I'll try, but can't promise.
<abogani> TheMuso: Seems that ATI remove completely RCU stuff so fix should be easy as remove my old patch (or instruct DKMS to use this patch only for kernel <= 2.6.28).
<TheMuso> I think we can test if the package builds, but unless someone has a card to test with, we can't be sure it will run
<stochastic> I always just recommend the open source radeon driver whenever possible
<TheMuso> abogani: Ok I'll have a look when I get to it.
<abogani> stochastic: Good suggestion.
<TheMuso> Not to mention KMS goodness.
<TheMuso> for the open source version.
<ScottL> I have an ATI 1300 on my recording machine
<abogani> Perhaps users involved in #159941 can help in test?
<TheMuso> bug #159941
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 159941 in linux-rt "fglrx driver does not work in RT kernel" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/159941
<TheMuso> yeah good idea.
<TheMuso> I can make sure we have a buildable/installable package at least.
<stochastic> okay guys I need to run very soon
<TheMuso> stochastic: Ok thanks for helping to run the meeting, and thank you all for your help with studio. Hopefully we can pick it up more for lucid.
<stochastic> Just a reminder that the next scheduled meeting is November 9th at 7am UTC (07:00)
<TheMuso> Right
<ScottL> will someone post the logs so I can read the parts that i missed? (at work, came in late)
<stochastic> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings
<luisbg> thanks stochastic :)
<TheMuso> there is also logs.ubuntu.com for IRC iirc
<ScottL> TheMuso: thanks
<stochastic> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2009/10/12/%23ubuntu-meeting.html
<ScottL> do we want to post the logs at wiki.ubunut.com/UbuntuStudio/Meetings ?  if so I will
<TheMuso> If people want to do that, go ahead imo
<luisbg> I think the same
<abogani> ScottL: A link to irclogs could be  useful.
<luisbg> if anybody wants to do it... go for it
<ScottL> I will take care of the log and the link
 * stochastic is gone.  See you all later.
<TheMuso> thanks folks.
<ScottL> * leave good day :)
<ScottL> #leave
<luisbg> I also have to leave
<luisbg> talk to you all tomorrow
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-13
<rad-net> il est  y a des marrocain la non
<rad-net> quel est le sujet de cette nuit
<ramadasan> hi
<aamachu> hi
<aamachu> persia: elky: lifeless: Hi
<elky> oh hai
<elky> aamachu, hi!
<elky> sorry, was cooking food
<aamachu> elky: what's special at kitchen?
<aamachu> elky: thats ok
<aamachu> i din't send a reminder today..
<aamachu> and was also late
<elky> just the world's most boring chow mein. mince, water chestnuts, diced capsicum.
<elky> i thought i had cabbage, but no :(
<aamachu> oh ok.. even then its different for me from chennai..
<aamachu> was twenty min late
<aamachu> just wanted to know, did anyone else turned up other than us
<elky> just you and i it seems
<aamachu> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/AsiaOceania
<aamachu> also the participants are not here
<elky> well, i guess we adjourn then
<aamachu> yes
<aamachu> we will meet on 27 Oct, same time
<aamachu> do you have anything else to share?
<elky> nope, see you on the 27th
<aamachu> ok.. bye then.. have fun
<elky> :)
<persia> Sorry to be late.
<aamachu> persia: we all are
<aamachu> i should have sent the reminder
<persia> Such is life sometimes.  Until next time.
<elky> persia, we still lack quorum and applicants, so you get off easy ;)
<persia> heh :)
<aamachu> persia: elky: bye
<lool> NCommander: Hey
<paulliu> hi
<JamieBennett> hi
<dyfet> hi
<plars> ih
 * StevenK says hi, just to be different
<JamieBennett> moo
<lool> Can someone please pick up the meeting from NCommander?
<davidm> I'm ringing him
<StevenK> Ooh, it's only 9am
<lool> GrueMaster: ping
<lool> ogra: ping
<GrueMaster> pong.
<GrueMaster> 6am here.
<lool> 3pm here
<davidm> lool, can't reach NCommander neither phone is answered
<StevenK> 9am where NCommander is, it's midnight here
<plars> 8:00 AM in the correct time zone
<lool> Someone please pick up the meeting; everybody knows how it goes, right?  :-)
<davidm> ogra, can you take the meeting please
<GrueMaster> plars: pffft.
<ogra> oh, no NCommander ?
<ogra> [startmeeting]
<ogra> bah
<lool> #
<ogra> [#startmeeting]
<lool> Without brackets
<ogra> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 08:06. The chair is ogra.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<StevenK> ogra was just waiting for one of us to type it so we would chair it
<ogra> aha
<lool> Exactly
<lool> It was very tempting  :)
<StevenK> Haha
 * ogra tried at least
<StevenK> I nearly fell for it
<lool> No meeting page i'm afraid
<ogra> yeah, i was just searching
<ogra> i guess we can take last weeks
<ogra> [topic] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<ogra> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Roadmap
<ogra> ah, i't just slow
<ogra> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091006
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2009/20091006
<ogra> bit recycling :P
 * NCommander coughs
<lool> lubuntu seed was finally fixed
<ogra> dyfet to move lubuntu seed to proper location and enable the meta on amd64
<ogra> lool to test fix for RTC battery charging
<ogra> lool, fsl asked for more measuring
<dyfet> this was done, the problem was I always generated the seed when I built the meta and did not save the seed list in the meta...so others after broke the architecture building new instances
<StevenK> NCommander: Ah ha! You're late to avoid chairing!
<dyfet> because I run ./update before debuild...
<ogra> NCommander, slacker !
<ogra> dyfet, well, thats the right thing usually
<NCommander> StevenK, my laptop decided to fsck itself booting up. 10 minutes later ...
<lool> dyfet: I don't understand a thing but I dont think we need to cover details since it works now
<dyfet> lool: agreed its done
<ogra> well, if it surely does
<lool> ogra: I didn't get the query from FSL part
<lool> ogra: Which one is that?
<lool> ogra: RTC isn't charging for me with latest ubuntu kernel; I didnt remove the resistors since you tested a 2.6.28 kernel where that wasnt needed IIUC
<ogra> Bug 427289
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427289 in linux-fsl-imx51 "hardware clock not saved if board power is removed on babbage 2.5" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427289
<lool> There was an action on "bjf to check with amit on going indepth on armel bugs"
<lool> ogra: Are you actually covering the actions from last week?
<ogra> yes
<ogra> we dont have any new ones
<ogra> given we dont have any new wikipage :P
<plars> there was a new post in that bug with a kernel config from fsl
<lool> ogra: I already answered on the RTC thing last week
<ogra> right
<lool> "I tested the RTC fix and it doesn't work for me"
<plars> anyone looked at that yet?
<plars> lool: that's the one you tested with?
<ogra> my voltage values were attached already
<lool> plars: No I did not
<plars> good timing!
<ogra> "I am measuring 2.69V on the coin-cell. Can you measure on your board what is the coin-cell voltage?"
<lool> I dont quite get how a b 3.0 config is relevant though
<ogra> thats the request
<lool> The voltages were wildly different between b2.0 and 2.5
<ogra> indeed
<lool> This is by far the most important issue affecting us now though
<lool> amitk: Did you and bjf discuss a process for covering armel bugs every week?
<GrueMaster> Is it?  What about bug #431963?
<ogra> plus the gpu patch
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431963 in linux-fsl-imx51 "io/fs errors when launching gdm on imx51 with sata" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431963
<amitk> AFAIK, Freescale is actively looking at the RTC issue currently
<lool> Something more in depth than what we can do for kernel bugs in our meeting
<ogra> lool, did you see amitk's comment on the regulator bug
<lool> GrueMaster: It is less serious?
<amitk> lool: yes. We see no reason to have a separate meeting for those bugs. They are kernel bugs and should be discussed in the kernel meeting IMO
<ogra> i think that justifies bumping it up to high
<lool> amitk: Ok; so I can check the last kernel meeting to get an up to date status on all the linux* armel bugs?
<plars> GrueMaster: probably less serious, but should probably be a high
<GrueMaster> I would think it is a high as well.
<amitk> lool: no, but we can start discussing each of the high/critical bugs in the meetings from now on, starting today's meeting
 * ogra wouldnt bump that one to high unless we have actually tested HW that has the exact form factor for the socket
<lool> amitk: Well yes, that's what I expected: a weekly review of progress on important armel kernel bugs
<lool> amitk: But doing it in the kernel meeting is fine
<lool> I just care that it's covered weekly somewhere where we can attend
<amitk> it is in 3hr34min same place
<plars> ogra: already bumped, bug feel free to disagree. We've hit it on 2 different boards with two different (externally powered) drives
<ogra> plars, not a single one of them was actually shipped witzh a compatible plug :)
<lool> I dont care about high versus medium for the SATA bug; the RTC bug should get priority, the rest depends of availability of developer time to fix the bugs
<ogra> right, and the gpu patch :)
<ogra> and probably the regulator bug since it can affect the world
<amitk> ogra: as I pointed out yesterday the gpu patch is already applied
<amitk> what is still missing?
<ogra> amitk, oh, i didnt get that, thanks
<ogra> amitk, but not in any current package, is it ?
<lool> amitk: I just discovered a config issue on the dove kernel this morning
<lool> http://people.canonical.com/~lool/IMG_2345.JPG
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~lool/IMG_2345.JPG
<ogra> (i saw no changelog entry mentioning it)
<lool> amitk: I didn't have a chance to report it, but binfmt_misc sseems to be missing in dove
<amitk> ogra: it has always been, since i applied the sdk1.6 patches.
<amitk> 17:14 < amitk> ogra: bjf: sha id ff4e565bfe81f10ca8aa64e24038683d5837cc51
<amitk> from yesterday ^
<ogra> amitk, hmm, then something is wrong, that should get me a device ...
<ogra> but nothing to dicuss in the meeting
<ogra> lool, are you trying to run a karmic ext4 fs with a jaunty kernel ?
<amitk> lool: bug number with armel tag?
<lool> You'll get one ASAP
<ogra> lool, i have seen the exact same when trying to boot a babbage jaunty kernel with ext4 from karmic ... it goes into constant reboot for me though
<lool> ogra: I think we covered action items
<ogra> anyway ...
<ogra> [topic] Specification Review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Specification Review
<ogra> anything to discuss here ?
 * amitk retires
<lool> GrueMaster: UNR ISO > did you look into that?
 * ogra guesses everything is closed and implemented by now 
<GrueMaster> Not much I can really look into.  I don't know beyond the manifest what to look for, unless you want me to look at package sizes.
<lool> amitk: Ok; thanks; FYI we also have an armel bugs section -- we were just covering actions and got distracted -- but thanks for coming for the bugs meeting action
<amitk> np
<lool> GrueMaster: Anything really
<ogra> anything else about specs ?
<GrueMaster> I'll look at it again today and see if there is anything glaring.
<paulliu> Do we need to freeze the versions of packages for Moblin? Or we just catch up the latest version?
<lool> StevenK: Can you pickup UNR ISO size tweaks?  a) re-adding as many langpacks as possible b) looking for things which could save us some room?
<StevenK> FinalFreeze is next week
<lool> Perhaps non-UNRish things we could drop
<StevenK> lool: Oh, like X? :-)
<paulliu> OK.
<lool> paulliu: We want to be conservative at this point; unless it's a bugfix only release and is safe to include (wont regress anything), abstain
<ogra> [action] StevenK to look into UNR ISO size tweaks
<MootBot> ACTION received:  StevenK to look into UNR ISO size tweaks
<lool> paulliu: Ping StevenK and me if you see any issue or need to go through a transition
<paulliu> lool: ok.
<StevenK> Oh, bleh. We're oversize by 1MB
<ogra> [action] lool to file a bug about armel fsck issues
<MootBot> ACTION received:  lool to file a bug about armel fsck issues
<GrueMaster> Last time I looked, the best I could come up with is dropping some X drivers that are installed (Trident, Cirrus Logic, etc) that aren't used in any known netbook configuration I could find.
<lool> ogra: Uh
<ogra> StevenK, bump the default to 1G ?
<StevenK> ogra: I wish, it used to be.
<ogra> right
<GrueMaster> ogra: Needs to be CD distributable.
<GrueMaster> 700M.
<ogra> what's keeping us from doing it ?
<StevenK> ogra: It's your fault, I added de to live :-P
<ogra> GrueMaster, why ?
<GrueMaster> Marketing.
<ogra> make it DVD distributable :)
<ogra> anyway, more issues for specs ?
<GrueMaster> It is easier to distribute.  CD's cost $.25 DVD's cost $1.50
<StevenK> Wubi needs someone who has a Windows install to test it
<GrueMaster> (or something like that).
<ogra> ok, nothing spec related i see and you guys moved on to UNR already
<GrueMaster> StevenK: I can test it.  Is it ready again?
<ogra> [topic] UNR Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  UNR Status
<StevenK> GrueMaster: I hope so.
<lool> (I filed 450363 on the binfmt issue)
<ogra> bug 450363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450363 in linux-mvl-dove "binfmt misc missing from config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450363
<lool> StevenK: Could you please cover UNR status this week?
<lool> StevenK: Are we up-to-date in upstream tarballs, and seed commits?
 * ogra listens
<StevenK> lool: Yes, and yes
<StevenK> Just checked
<ogra> sounds good
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
 * StevenK double checks seeds
<ogra> [link] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-unr
<lool> The maximus crasher was closed as it was old
<StevenK> I've been triaging that list, and pointing njpatel at things I'm unclear on
<StevenK> I'd like to get that list down a lot before release
<lool> StevenK: any bugs worth mention here?
<ogra> looks fine to me
<ogra> StevenK, what list ?
<ogra> it's empty
<lool> ogra: the non-karmic one
<ogra> oh, ok
<ogra> is that all about UNR ?
<plars> there are probably some that need to move over... will take a look later today
<StevenK> lool: Yeah
<StevenK> lool: Er, no, sorry. I'm done.
<ogra> [action] plars to move UNR bugs from non-karmic to karmic where necessary
<lool> StevenK: We got a new clutter release uploaded; would be good to test the UI in the latest images
<MootBot> ACTION received:  plars to move UNR bugs from non-karmic to karmic where necessary
 * StevenK blames the time, since it's 0034
<lool> Anything else WRT UNR?
<StevenK> Nope, I'm good
<ogra> doesnt look like
<StevenK> I'm unsure about GrueMaster's suggestion
<ogra> [topic] UMR Status
<MootBot> New Topic:  UMR Status
<lool> (Can we please name UMR "moblin remix" instead; it's too close to UNR otherwise)
<paulliu> The 3-rd round sync is acked.
<lool> paulliu: Do we have anerley and anjal-anerley in karmic?
<paulliu> Waiting for anerley binaries.
<lool> Ok
<lool> paulliu: Is the Dbus issue in live systems still problematic?
<lool> Does it happen all the time?
<paulliu> Sorry. What's the issue?
<paulliu> I didn't see dbus issues currently on my hardwares.
<lool> bug #449230
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 449230 in ubuntu-moblin-remix "installation of UMR iso fails with hang and loop" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/449230
<lool> plars, GrueMaster, StevenK: You guys saw this?
<StevenK> I tried to test that in Virtualbox, and couldn't run UMR in it :-(
<lool> StevenK: Did you flip the enable 3d pref?
<lool> it's off by default
<StevenK> lool: Aye
<plars> just came in yesterday I think, hadn't had a chance to look at it yet but I saw it in my bugmail
<GrueMaster> I'll try to reproduce it later today when I do a fresh install for Moblin Compliance testing.
<lool> StevenK: It used to work for me last week; what's the issue?
<GrueMaster> There were some ubiquity bugs that went through all the images last week.
<StevenK> lool: I get a screen with a background image that I can't interact with
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: If you find it fixed, please dup it against 448981
<StevenK> (On a live CD boot)
<paulliu> StevenK: Today's image?
<StevenK> paulliu: The latest, 1013
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: Did you guys complete installs last week?
<paulliu> StevenK: Yeah. I'm trying to downloading it now. I saw mutter is updated. From 2.27.5 to 2.28.0. Some API bumped.
<lool> Are the APT issues solved?
<lool> (deb deb sources.list entry and APT error popup during install)
<plars> lool: for iso tracker?
<paulliu> StevenK: That might break mutter-moblin so only background image that can't do anything.
<GrueMaster> Last image I installed from scratch was 10/8
<ogra> wasnt ubiuquity broken the whole last week ?
<StevenK> The former should be, but modulo doing an install to actually test
<GrueMaster> Worked fine then.
<lool> plars: I mean the installation issue; I dont think that relates to ISO tracker
<StevenK> paulliu: But the same image works fine on my NC10
<lool> *issues
<paulliu> StevenK: hmm....
<plars> lool: I do installs as often as I can, but sometimes update if I'm actively using that machine for some other testing (i.e. testing kernels on imx51 last week)
<GrueMaster> I need to verify the ppa issue.  IIRC, it was listed incorrectly with two "deb" tags.
<lool> plars, GrueMaster: So on your next install, plesae check sources.list to see whether it's correct (correct PPA entry with deb-src if needed)
<plars> will do
<GrueMaster> will do.
<lool> (And reopen the APT error popup bug if you get it)
<ogra> why are there no bugs open for all the above issues ?
<lool> Was an ubiquity issue
<lool> ogra: there are bugs open for all the above issues
<ogra> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.subscriber=ubuntu-moblin
<ogra> not here
<lool> bug #439485
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439485 in ubiquity "APT error during installer" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439485
<lool> ogra: Becasue these are closed
<ogra> oh, ok
<lool> or were affecting moblin remix which is not karmic stuff
<ogra> i thought they were moblin specific ones
<GrueMaster> ogra: I know about these bugs, and have ready access to them for updating.  Just don't know the numbers off the top of my head.
<lool> the sources.list issue is bug #420048
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420048 in ubuntu-moblin-remix "No sources.list entry for the Moblin PPA" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420048
<lool> paulliu, StevenK: Anything else for moblin remix?
<lool> Critical bugs etc.?
<StevenK> Only my virtualbox issue :-(
<ogra> file a bug :)
<GrueMaster> I would like to point out that we are getting close to full compliance.
<GrueMaster> Last image had 171 errors, down from 449.
<lool> I'm so excited, which moblin compliant apps will I be able to run there?!  </sarcasm>
<paulliu> lool: nothing else.
<lool> :-P
<lool> paulliu: thakns
<lool> ogra: I guess we can move to armel
<ogra> [topic] armel status
<MootBot> New Topic:  armel status
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Are these still useful errors, or the ones like "You don't have <useless kernel config change> enabled" ?
<lool> doko: Around?
<ogra> (i subscribed ubuntu-moblin to bug 420048 so it shows up on the list)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 420048 in ubuntu-moblin-remix "No sources.list entry for the Moblin PPA" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/420048
<lool> doko: What's the plan for oo.o now?  .jaunty thingie for release?
<GrueMaster> StevenK: which are you referring to?  Moblin?
<StevenK> GrueMaster: Yeah
<lool> ogra: it wont
<lool> ogra: the list is specific to karmic
<ogra> humm, why ?
<GrueMaster> I'll show you after the meeting.
<lool> ogra: we should use a second link for high bugs in moblin-remix or smth
<ogra> why isnt the bug karmic specific ?
<ogra> well, we should just make them show up properly imho
<lool> ogra: When it's a cdimage or moblin remix bug, it's by definition not a karmic bug
<ogra> hrm
<ogra> well, anyway, armel ...
<lool> https://bugs.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-moblin/+subscribedbugs
<ogra> my boards survived the upgrades i did yesterday, images seem to build again, we had an ABI bump on imx51
<lool> my dove y1 hangs regularly under load
<lool> like completely dead
<ogra> (need to bump d-i before tonights build)
<lool> NCommander: Is partman-uboot out of new?
<lool> NCommander: what do we need to do about it still?
<lool> TB meeting in 10 mns
<ogra> right, NCommander ?
<pitti> cjwatson, Keybuk, dholbach: we have the DMB meeting in 10, right?
<Keybuk> right
<NCommander> sorry, phone rang
 * kees waves
<NCommander> Uh, partman-uboot is still in NEW to my knowledge
<ogra> anyway, for imx51 bug 446140 and bug 427289 are still on my critical list
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446140 in linux-fsl-imx51 "regulator issues with 2.6.31 vs 2.6.28 with the same patchset" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446140
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427289 in linux-fsl-imx51 "hardware clock not saved if board power is removed on babbage 2.5" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427289
<ogra> NCommander, any open bugs on dove we should know about ?
<NCommander> ogra, just the one about us needing partman-uboot
<ogra> (apart from the one lool just filed)
<ogra> ok
<ogra> i guess thats it for armel then
<ogra> [topic] AOB
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<lool> ogra: Could you attend weekly kernel meetings?
<ogra> lool, bad timing, FSL call
 * NCommander will handle minutes for this meeting and fix last weeks as well :-/
<lool> And make sure 446140 431963 427289 are updated?
<ogra> will do
<lool> why is 420447 fix committed and not uploaded?
<ogra> oi have one AOB topic
<lool> 383240 > I have packages in my PPA and need testers
<GrueMaster> What's up with the Ubuntu MID remix? (It's on last weeks agenda).
<lool> I'm looking for anybody really to test the ffmpeg packages in my PPA
<StevenK> Tis not a remix
<lool> On amd64 or armel
<ogra> everyone in the team needs to commit one hour per week to fix sponsoring bugs
<lool> GrueMaster: I think it's a leftover, just delete it
<ogra> [action] new rolling action: everyone with upload privs to look inot sponsoring bugs next week and report which ones he closed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  new rolling action: everyone with upload privs to look inot sponsoring bugs next week and report which ones he closed
<ogra> bah, typoed
<ogra> [action] anyone who has spare test cycles to test lool's ffmpeg packages
<lool> Can anybody please commit to testing ffmpeg from my PPA?  Basically play some files with ffplay or a ffmpeg based player and see whether there are regressions with the PPA pacakges
<MootBot> ACTION received:  anyone who has spare test cycles to test lool's ffmpeg packages
<ogra> is that it ?
<GrueMaster> What platform?
<ogra> armel or amd64
<ogra> as lool said above
<JamieBennett> lool: I can take a look
<davidm> lool, sorry I can't help, I don't have either platform
<ogra> anything else we need to bring up ?
<lool> Thanks
<ogra> going once
<GrueMaster> I have an AMD64 system for LSB testing.  I can look at those this week.
<ogra> going twice ...
<ogra> sold to the man with the yellow hat !
<ogra> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 08:56.
<JamieBennett> GrueMaster probably best for you to do AMD64 aswell as I'm not around after today
<JamieBennett> Just in case
<cjwatson> developer membership board meeting?
<jpds> Good afternoon.
<cjwatson> mdz,Keybuk,kees,pitti: ping
<cjwatson> no sabdfl?
<Keybuk> I'm here
<pitti> on the TB ML we already had some long discussion with dholbach about simplifying/changing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers#Applying%20for%20team%20membership for the new "smaller teams" archive reorganization
<cjwatson> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 09:05. The chair is cjwatson.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Adjusting team membership applications for delegated upload teams
<MootBot> New Topic:  Adjusting team membership applications for delegated upload teams
<kees> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> Mark's proposal near the end of the thread was as follows:
<pitti> Q: are we still keeping the process of "core-dev" for folks who can upload anywhere? should we treat this separately?
<cjwatson>  - set up devel-permissions@ list
<cjwatson>  - invitations/requests go there as well as to relevant team list
<cjwatson>  - all approvals go to ubuntu-devel@ and devel-permissions@
<cjwatson> [and I think maybe also to the team list]
<pitti> (was about to ask)
<cjwatson> dholbach +1ed that; it sounds to me as if it meets all our requirements to date, too
<Keybuk> I think it's a bit of a silly mailing list
<Keybuk> will anyone subscribe to it?
<cjwatson> pitti: core-dev comes to DMB, but otherwise should be basically the same requirements, I think
<Keybuk> well, dholbach obviously ;)
<pitti> cjwatson: it would certainly be nice to have the same process indeed
<dholbach> Keybuk: we have a bunch of people who subscribed to the motu-council list and are active there
<Keybuk> DMB is intended to be a delegated team for core-dev in much the same way that kubuntu-dev is for kubuntu
<cjwatson> Keybuk: I think it's a bit silly, but I don't mind it existing if people like it that way
<Keybuk> right, for me it's a +0 - I don't hate it or love it
<pitti> d-perms@ seems a bit bureaucratic to me as well, but it surely is a nice central place for looking up old applications/approvals
<dholbach> Keybuk: as I said in the mail discussion: I don't know if we should have a new list for it, but I think it should be public
<cjwatson> there's an advantage to that, true
<cjwatson> is there any point in significant further discussion on this, or should we just vote on Mark's proposal?
<kees> I'm +1 -- if it becomes a problem or is ignored, we can adjust it at a later time.
<Keybuk> I think we can just vote
<cjwatson> [VOTE] ratify Mark's proposal for developer membership announcements
<MootBot> Please vote on:  ratify Mark's proposal for developer membership announcements.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<pitti> so do I; seems on the ML we had good consensus already anyway
<Keybuk> +0
<MootBot> Abstention received from Keybuk. 0 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 0
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 1 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 1
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 2 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 2
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 3
<cjwatson> I haven't seen mdz active here yet, beyond his client joining
<cjwatson> #endvote
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 3 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 3
<cjwatson> !"Â£% NO CARRIER
<ubottu> Sorry, I don't know anything about NO CARRIER
<kees> heh
<cjwatson> I think we can consider that passed, given that we have quorum
<cjwatson> right, is there anything else we need to agree upon about the DMB's basic ground rules?
<cjwatson> developer-membership-board@ vs. developer-membership-board-private@ lists perhaps?
<pitti> who would be on the private list?
<Keybuk> sure, if you can find a way to phrase the vote that's not "Do you disagree with the opinion against the EU constitution" :p
<cjwatson> the six of us
<cjwatson> Keybuk: hmm? :)
<cjwatson> six> plus whomever else is incorporated in the future obviously, e.g. motu-council
<pitti> I asked because e. g. if someone applies to kubuntu-dev, and other kubuntu devs have some reservations, should or  shouldn't that be discussed on d-m-b-private@?
<cjwatson> oh, I see
<cjwatson> err. I think I was imagining it as a list for whatever private discussion is needed for core-dev applicants?
<pitti> I mean, I wouldn't exactly propose to have one huge list with all team "leaders" on it
<cjwatson> since kubuntu-(whatever) can approve new kubuntu-dev members on their own, they don't need to go to the DMB to do it
<cjwatson> that being the point of delegating
<kees> pitti: right, I was wondering the same, but realized the DMB has delegated that stuff
<pitti> ok, so this is exclusively meant for new core-devs then (the bits that aren't delegated)
<kees> so our -private is our solution to that problem for our own discussions.
<pitti> makes more sense to me now
<Keybuk> cjwatson: right, I was thinking about that the other day
<Keybuk> given that I don't want to impose procedures on other teams
<Keybuk> that means I don't want to impose privateness on thsoe teams either
<dholbach> so applicants will send something like "I'll be at the XYZ Board's meeting next week?" and people will get in touch with them, if they should really have private remarks to make?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: also, core-devs can do more damage
<cjwatson> nobody knows the whole archive well enough for natural talent alone to carry them along :)
<cjwatson> there tends to be more complicated cooperation involved
<Keybuk> right
<Keybuk> I was thinking that too
<Keybuk> so, after "appearing to ignore all the arguments while really listening and reforming my own opinion" </cjwatson> I'm going to say I think the DMB list should be public :p
<pitti> it should be public either way; I thought the question was to have an additional -private@
<kees> right
<cjwatson> Keybuk: ;-)
<pitti> I hope that we won't actually need it that often
<pitti> but we can have it just in case
 * kees nods
<Keybuk> I'm not sure we need it
<Keybuk> the case where someone applies for core-dev access, but we have serious reservations, can probably be dealt with by private e-mail rather than a ML ?
<kees> Keybuk: the point is to have a single place for people to email with reservations.  if not a list, then at least an exploder alias.
<cjwatson> I was just thinking of saying the same; my original reason for being in favour of a list is that I think we should actively invite criticism (as long as it's not just character-assassination)
<cjwatson> and I suppose we could do that by saying "if you have an objection you don't want to raise in public, please e-mail all the DMB members" but it seems a bit cumbersome and I don't think that would actually happen if phrased that way
<kees> that would just further discourage that sort of communication.
<dholbach> as long as there's any kind of option to pass on feedback or have some kind of discussion, I think it's OK
<Keybuk> yeah that's true
<pitti> dholbach: /query or private mail are available any time
<kees> I don't see why -private is a problem if we've accepted the need for a place for private discussion.
<cjwatson> nor I
<dholbach> I know, but the documentation or process should invite that some how or invite feedback
<Keybuk> I don't think it's a problem either FWIW :)
<dholbach> if you have a developer applying you don't know that has 4 cheerleaders, you'll be happy if somebody lets you know "I sponsored 3-4 uploads where I wasn't quite so sure about the quality, maybe that developer should wait a few more weeks or something"
<Keybuk> indeed
<kees> Keybuk: so you don't think it's a problem, but you don't think it's needed?
<Keybuk> I don't think it's a problem to have it, I think we should agree that it's needed, but there seems to be a good argument for that
<persia> I'd suggest that a list is better than personal email, simply because personal email may well go to a smaller subset of people, or someone may be asked to proxy opinions based on perception of personal relationships.
<dholbach> how that's implemented by the board is a matter of taste, I'd say, but you surely want other developers to notice there's going to be some decision about upload rights some time soon :)
<cjwatson> how about we create -private, and if nobody uses it over (say) the next year, we delete it?
<cjwatson> I'd like to move past this ...
<Keybuk> I'd +1 that
<kees> I don't think its disuse proves it isn't a useful channel to have available.
<kees> but I'd like to get past this.  how about "re-evaluate its utility" in a year instead of "delete" if it's idle?
<Keybuk> actually, let's just create it ;)
<Keybuk> if we don't use it, we don't use it
<pitti> it's just a ML *shrug*, nothing that needs serious attention or maintenance
 * kees nods
<cjwatson> ok
<cjwatson> sounds good, let's do it
<cjwatson> anything else before we look at Cody's application?
<cjwatson> [TOPIC] Cody Somerville -> ubuntu-core-dev
<MootBot> New Topic:  Cody Somerville -> ubuntu-core-dev
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: are you here?
<Keybuk> I have little to say here other than "is he not already? +1"
<Keybuk> :)
<kees> yeah, same from me.
<Keybuk> I have a feeling cody applied to the TB before?  Is my feeling right or wrong?
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: thanks for being patient while we worked through our teething difficulties with our new arrangements
<cjwatson> I was sort of hoping to be able to talk with Cody about how Xubuntu is going, and about the issues he raised regarding SRUs
<cjwatson> he did say he'd be able to show up to this meeting
<Keybuk> cjwatson: are those blockers for his application?
<cjwatson> Keybuk: before> I have a similar feeling but can't remember and can't quickly verify
<Keybuk> no, me neither
<Keybuk> and I have the entire TB ML archive
<Keybuk> so I must be mistaken ;)
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, I'm here :)
<cjwatson> aha
<cjwatson> excellent
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: ok, so how do you feel Xubuntu's going at the moment, as a project?
<cody-somerville> cjwatson, I'm very excited with the direction Xubuntu is moving in. Each release I feel we have a stronger, more vibrant team eager to tackle the challenges of planning and developing a derivative of Ubuntu.
<cody-somerville> Karmic in particular has seen substantial improvements in terms of engaging our Ubuntu counterparts and contributing patches to improve integration of desktop components shared between Xubuntu and Ubuntu.
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: I've seen some comments to the effect that Xubuntu is getting less lightweight due to moving closer to GNOME in various ways; is this a direction you're happy with, or do you feel that it indicates problems that need to be addressed?
<pitti> (gdm *cough*)
<cjwatson> I saw a memory use analysis showing a Xubuntu desktop taking more memory than Ubuntu, but I didn't verify it so it may be scurrilous rumour :-)
<cody-somerville> We make a conscious decision to balance usability, integration, and performance.
<cody-somerville> We've made a number of changes in Karmic to reduce memory usage including using ld's --as-needed option and re-evaluating the default desktop configuration.
<cjwatson> right, I think the report I saw was on 9.04
<cody-somerville> Although much of the work was preliminary, I feel we have a stronger working knowledge of the area to move forward with more dramatic efforts to reduce our memory usage in karmic+1
<cody-somerville> Furthermore, some of the reports I conferred with Keybuk on (particular boot time) which Keybuk indicated to me that the journalist misinterpreted the bootcharts.
<cjwatson> surely not, journalists never misinterpret things ;-)
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: I'd also like to ask about the OEM Services team; you indicated that one thing you were interested in was helping to get OEM changes integrated into Ubuntu proper, and I agree that there's a need for improving that process. What sort of review would you apply to such changes?
<cjwatson> and is there anything you definitely wouldn't integrate? :)
<cody-somerville> Excellent question.
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: ... :-)
<cody-somerville> The OEM Services Team produces a lot of good work. A lot of work to produce bugs fixes, usability enhancements, etc. occur within that team but unfortunately some of it never makes it to Ubuntu proper. I think as a member of the OEM Services team, I'd be able to expedite the merging of low hanging fruit as well as facilitate the necessary connections between the Upstream, Ubuntu, and OEM counterparts to have the more complex
<cody-somerville>  and involved changes receive the necessary discussions and more thorough reviews.
<cjwatson> aha
<cody-somerville> There are naturally some changes that are unfit to be uploaded as is to Ubuntu. Changes that are specific to a vendor or a narrow use case.
<cjwatson> ok, I'm satisfied with that; any more questions before we move to a vote?
<Keybuk> none from me
<pitti> I'm good
<cjwatson> [VOTE] Approve Cody Somerville for ubuntu-core-dev
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Approve Cody Somerville for ubuntu-core-dev.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<cjwatson> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from cjwatson. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<kees> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from kees. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<pitti> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from pitti. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<kees> Keybuk: ?
<Keybuk> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from Keybuk. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<cjwatson> #endvote
<Keybuk> focus issue there
<cjwatson> argh
<cjwatson> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 4 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 4
<cjwatson> cody-somerville: welcome, and thanks again for your patience
<kees> congrats cody-somerville :)
<cody-somerville> Thanks! :)
<pitti> cody-somerville: rock on!
<cjwatson> I'll do the LP bits
<mterry> cody-somerville: nice!
<dholbach> congratulations cody-somerville!
<cjwatson> and we're out of time. Did we miss any candidates we need to ensure to invite for next time?
<cjwatson> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:01.
<nijaba> o/
<ttx> o/
<Daviey> \o
<nurmi> o/
<sommer> o//
<Keybuk> o|_|/
<zul> heylo
 * mathiaz waves
<alexm> o/
<zul> mathiaz: always have to be different dont you? ;)
<smoser> o/
<kirkland> o/
 * ttx waits one minute to see if mdz will join us
<mathiaz> ttx: are you running the meeting?
<ttx> mathiaz: I am, if he isn't
<ttx> ok, let's start, I'll defer to him in case of need
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Welcome to the server team meeting -- Agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ivoks> (hi)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/Server/20091006
<ttx> ACTION: ttx to review test plans and ensure they are aligned with 9.10
<ttx> Done, pending some alignment by ara and the QA team
<ttx> ACTION: kirkland to confirm that his test rig is fully operational
<kirkland> ttx: confirmed
<ttx> ACTION: kirkland to adapt help.ubuntu.com VM recipe(s?) to use libvirt
<kirkland> ttx: we used the heck out of it last week here
<kirkland> ttx: not done
<ttx> kirkland: I agree that its lower prio
<ttx> reporting it...
<ttx> [ACTION] kirkland to adapt help.ubuntu.com VM recipe(s?) to use libvirt
<MootBot> ACTION received:  kirkland to adapt help.ubuntu.com VM recipe(s?) to use libvirt
<ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to work with the QA team on a server bug day for Karmic
<mathiaz> ttx: done - running tomorrow
<mathiaz> pedro_: ^^ - thanks!
<ttx> cool, we'll talk about that later in the show
<ttx> (after the first ad break)
<ttx> ACTION: mdz to follow up with marjo regarding general QA support in Karmic
<pedro_> you're welcome, i always enjoy to work with you folks :-)
<ttx> That was done
<ttx> ACTION: smoser to follow up with mdz regarding UEC image testing capability
<smoser> i'm not sure what that was...
<ttx> I guess it was about getting what it takes to be able to test images yourself
<ttx> hw need, whatever
<smoser> yeah, wlell i think then that its done. i got a newegg delivery. but not yet installed.
<ttx> who has a working UEC test setup as of today ?
<ttx> o/
<ttx> kirkland said yes
<nurmi> o/
<nijaba> o/
<ttx> nurmi: :)
<ttx> mathiaz: ?
<ivoks> haven't tried it :/
<mathiaz> ttx: hm - nope.
<ttx> ivoks: you're soo 20th century, man
<kirkland> ttx: jsalisbury has been testing and providing feedback on the mailing list
<jsalisbury> correct
<mathiaz> ttx: I had to give hardware back
<kirkland> ttx: he responded to jono 's call for testing
<ivoks> ttx: i'm working on pacemaker... 30th century :D
<ttx> davmor2 has been setting it up as well.
<mathiaz> ttx: I should have access to more hw later today and plan to setup a cloud there as weel
<alexm> ttx: i'd like to but no hardware available ATM
<ttx> ok
<ttx> ACTION: zul to fix m2crypto test suite and ensure that MIR is processed
<davmor2> \o/ works here
<zul> id like to but busy with other things like m2crypto
<ttx> zul: how is it going ?
<zul> testsuite is running but it fails right now because it needs network access to work so its running but it doesnt fail if there is no access
<zul> should be done today
<ttx> [ACTION] zul to fix m2crypto test suite and ensure that MIR is processed
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to fix m2crypto test suite and ensure that MIR is processed
<ttx> ACTION: soren/niemeyer to arrange a meeting to discuss reference appliance plan of action
<ttx> They discussed it, that's sure
<ttx> I'm not sure if any of them are around, though
<ttx> ACTION: mathiaz to document test plan for image store
<mathiaz> ttx: hm - niemeyer wrote most of the intstructions
<mathiaz> ttx: available in a README text file
<ttx> in image-store-proxy ?
<mathiaz> ttx: should I add them to the testcases wiki page as well?
<mathiaz> ttx: yes - in image-store-proxy
<niemeyer> ttx: I'm here, but I don't have much else to comment about this ATM
<ttx> mathiaz: yes, that would be good
<mathiaz> ttx: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~image-store/image-store-proxy/trunk/annotate/head%3A/README
<mathiaz> ttx: ok - I can write up a new test cases
<ttx> mathiaz: not sure we would make a delivery test from it, but documenting the tseet doesn't hurt
<mathiaz> ttx: ok - the test cases should *not* be added to the ISO tracker?
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to add test case for image store in testcases wiki
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to add test case for image store in testcases wiki
<ttx> mathiaz: I'd say it would need some discussion, based on the testcases contents
 * mathiaz nods
<ttx> ACTION: zul to triage his assigned bugs
<zul> done
 * kirkland high fives zul
<zul> thanks kirkland
<ttx> [TOPIC] Eucalyptus status
<kirkland> ;-)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Eucalyptus status
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/eucalyptus
<ttx> so we currently have a 1.6~bzr919-0ubuntu3
<ttx> which includes the r920 fix
<ttx> I've a r925 merge pending
<ttx> nurmi: should we move to that one ?
<nurmi> that revno should help a lot with multi-cluster/component, and some single cluster installations
<ttx> nurmi: nothing else in the pipe ?
<nurmi> ttx: there are two more important fixes that we have in testing right now (important for multi-cluster)
<ttx> nurmi: when are they expected out of testing ? end of today ?
<ttx> (of /your/ today) ?
<nurmi> ttx: 430266, 449944
<nurmi> ttx: yes, before 5pm PST, today
<ttx> hmm, kirkland: do you think there is valud in committing r925, then ?
<kirkland> ttx: not if we have another merge comming
<kirkland> ttx: if it is the caboose, then sure, let's upload
<kirkland> ttx: but if there's more in the pipeline, let's wait
<ttx> there is, according to Dan
<kirkland> ttx: right. i'll wait
<ttx> kirkland: and no urgent fxies in r925 either
<kirkland> ttx: i'll take care of the upload in my locale then
<kirkland> ttx: so that you can go to bed :-)
<ttx> i committed what was urgent in the 919-0ubuntuÂµ3
<ttx> ok.
<ttx> kirkland: how is bug 432154 doing ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 432154 in qemu-kvm "dynamic block device attach/detach not functional with karmic KVM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/432154
<kirkland> ttx: i'm working on that now
<kirkland> ttx: i got a patch from aligouri
<kirkland> ttx: that might help nurmi out, on the scsi front
<ttx> kirkland: is there a light at the end of the tunnel ?
<kirkland> ttx: well, let's say that i'm holding a lottery ticket
<nurmi> kirkland: is this for virtio or scsi attach?
<kirkland> nurmi: his patch is for scsi
<nurmi> kirkland: nod
<smoser> ttx, are we still wanting 'acpi_php' loaded at boot in uec-images ?
<kirkland> nurmi: it's a long shot
<kirkland> smoser: yes, and it's acpiphp
<smoser> right
<ttx> kirkland: ok, lets play the lottery.
<smoser> ok.. there is no bug for that i think
<smoser> right ?
<kirkland> ttx: this is a deep, complex bug
<kirkland> ttx: i'm doubtful a single patch is going to fix everything
<ttx> kirkland, cjwatson: status for bug 446023 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446023 in eucalyptus "uec node cd install doesn't handle static network configuration" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446023
<niemeyer> nurmi, kirkland: Btw, mathiaz found an issue trying to install an image which was installed through the image store
<kirkland> ttx: as it involves eucalyptus invocation of a libvirt function that uses qemu-kvm functionality that's been modified from upstream qemu
<ttx> kirkland: from release meeting it sounded like cjwatson deferred 446023 to you ?
<ttx> iirc
<niemeyer> I can't see it being related to the store specifically, so it'd be great to have some help from the Euca developers
<mathiaz> niemeyer: right - I'll ask about it later
<niemeyer> mathiaz: Awesome, thank you
<kirkland> ttx: yeah, my plate is very, very, very incredible full
<kirkland> ttx: any help would be hot
<ttx> kirkland: feel fre to leave the > rev925 merge out of your plate
<ttx> kirkland: I can handle it tomorrow morning
<ttx> ok, lets move on
<ttx> [TOPIC] UEC/EC2 images
<MootBot> New Topic:  UEC/EC2 images
<mathiaz> ttx: hm - wait
<mathiaz> ttx: for eucalyptus
<ttx> mathiaz: yes
<mathiaz> nurmi: did you get a change to look at bug 446841?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446841 in image-store-proxy "Unable to start images installed/registered via the image store" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446841
<nurmi> mathiaz: i havn't been able to test image store proxy, yet, but it is on my list for today's testing
<mathiaz> nurmi: ok - basically niemeyer and I have no clue what's wrong in there
<ttx> nurmi: please comment on the bug when done, and do not hesitate to sync with mathiaz for reproduction
<mathiaz> nurmi: so any help in debugging this is welcome
<mathiaz> ttx: that was it
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=uec-images
<nurmi> mathiaz: niemeyer: great, just quick question
<ttx> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bugs?field.tag=ec2-images
<ttx> smoser: ^
<nurmi> mathiaz: are you running as 'admin' or regular user for commands listed in that bug?
<mathiaz> nurmi: admin
<nurmi> mathiaz: thanks
<smoser> we're  no different than last week as far as bugs for those. there is nothing open that is serious.
<mathiaz> nurmi: I've tried regulart as well - same outcome
<nurmi> mathiaz: nod
<ttx> smoser: bug 440757 is targeted to release, what's the status ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440757 in vm-builder "ec2-images have ubuntu.canonical.com in /etc/hosts" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440757
<smoser> bug 439868 and bug 444598 are done. those were most of my work last week. but they're heavily improved now.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439868 in vm-builder "UEC images could be smaller" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439868
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444598 in vm-builder "UEC images could be simpler to download and bundle" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444598
<smoser> i was just looking at 440757 now. i will try to knock that off today.
<ttx> smoser: ETA for bug 444605 ?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 444605 in vm-builder "make sure source is obtainable for uec kernel images" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/444605
<smoser> and i'm going to open one for putting acpiphp into /etc/modules
<smoser> i will mark 444605 as done.
<ttx> ok, cool.
<ttx> anything else on the EC2/UEC topic ?
<smoser> slangasek, agreed that with the -kernel-info.txt file and even just the manifest we have what we need.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Virtual appliance
<MootBot> New Topic:  Virtual appliance
<ttx> the biggest issue is the one mathiaz already mentioned
<ttx> niemeyer: anything else you wanted to report ?
<ttx> moving on...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Other specs from the Roadmap
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other specs from the Roadmap
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Roadmap
<ttx> anything else / anyone ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Server Team bugmail
<ttx> zul ^
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team bugmail
<zul> yeah so I went through the server-ship seeds to make sure that the server team is subscribed to the bugmail for the stuff in the seeds and this is the list I came up with
<zul> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/292428/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/292428/
<zul> some like freenet6 are no longer in the archive and should be removed from the seeds as well
<Daviey> zul: What is the ($team/perosn) after the package name?
<zul> Daviey: these are the people subscribed to the bugs
<Daviey> ah
<zul> I was going to propose that I would go through the list today and make sure that the server team is subscribed to the package in launchpad and triaged any new bugs
<ttx> postgresql is quite obvious, methink
<ivoks> does it need to be surbscribed to parts that are covered by, for example, ubuntu-ha?
<zul> ttx: obviously yes
<Daviey> if it's in the server seed, surely we should be subscribed to the packages bugs?  As in, shouldn't we just action them all?
<zul> ivoks: no I dont think so
<ivoks> i'd agree
<mathiaz> ivoks: both teams can be subscribed to the bugs
<zul> ivoks: but it would be nice to have a backup
<ivoks> mathiaz: meaning ubuntu-ha members would recieve double email
<Daviey> it *concerns* the server team as it's in the seed.. but inversely we already get lots of bugmail..
<Daviey> ivoks: they need to filter their mail better :)
<ttx> ivoks: I'd recommend not subscribing to ubuntu-server bugmail anyway
<mathiaz> ivoks: oh well. This is why treading emails clients are useful ;)
<ivoks> :)
<ttx> package subscription is more about getting the package to show in our buglists
<ttx> mathiaz: any objection to adding all of them, since they are in server-ship ?
<mathiaz> ttx: nop
<mathiaz> ttx: E
<ttx> zul: please clean up and proceed
<zul> ttx: ok
<mathiaz> ttx: I'm trying to reach the 2000 emails /day bar - adding more packages should help achieving that goal
<ttx> [ACTION] zul to add missing server-ship packages to ubuntu-server
<MootBot> ACTION received:  zul to add missing server-ship packages to ubuntu-server
<ttx> [TOPIC] RC - FinalFreeze ahead
<MootBot> New Topic:  RC - FinalFreeze ahead
<ttx> so FinalFreeze is this thursday
<ivoks> cr@p
<ttx> which means most fixes should be in by... tomorrow
<ttx> only release-critical fixes will be granted an exception after that date
<nijaba> or ask for an exception?
<ivoks> how do we look on workarounds for upstream bugs?
<ivoks> i'm facing one bug that's very bad, bad a workaround 'fixes' it
<smoser> soren, are you planning on refreshing vmbuilder ? there have been changes since the last karmic release.
<ivoks> i was waiting for a fix, but i guess we can't wait any longer
<ttx> if its a very bad bug it could get an exception
<ivoks> upstream is working on it, but problably won't be here in next week
<ttx> ivoks: make sure its on the release team radar though
<ttx> ivoks: nominated for karmic and targeted to release
<ivoks> ttx: but i'd push workaround, just in case... is that ok?
<ttx> ivoks: sure, workarounds are... good
<ttx> as already mentioned, we'll have a server bug day tomorrow
<ttx> to identify the missing bugs that should be targeted to release
<ttx> everyone is welcome to participate, this is a great way of ensuring a better quality release
<ttx> Any other question on this topic ?
<nijaba> Where can one find more information about this?
<ttx> pedro_: ^
<ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20091014
<nijaba> thanks
<ttx> and Pedro should send a mail about it, if not done already
<ttx> Bloggers can annouce it too :)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Assigned and to-be-assigned bugs
<ttx> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/team-assigned/canonical-server-assigned-bug-tasks.html
<ttx> still slightly outdated, can't keep up with our hasty pace
<ttx> team: any bug that you don't feel confident about, please talk
<ttx> Anything needing reassignment, please talk as well
<nijaba> I would like to submit bug #328550 to a review. I think it is pretty bad that we do not support HBA out of the box
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 328550 in udev "qla2xxx takes ~one minute to initialize per device" [Medium,Won't fix] https://launchpad.net/bugs/328550
<ttx> Looking...
<nijaba> it has been verified on Karmic too
<ttx> I'll have a look, but it looks like Foundations territory
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review
<ttx> this week we have some time for it, mathiaz ^
 * mathiaz cheers
<ttx> mathiaz: 5 minutes, nominations lists are empty, fwiw
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<zul> i have three on my radar 343870 304437 425407
<mathiaz> ^^ any bugs worth SRU?
<zul> 425407
<zul> 304437
<zul> 343870
<mathiaz> bug 425407
<zul> damn no bot
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 425407 in dovecot "Panic: pop3-login: file client-common.c: line 25 (client_unlink): assertion failed: (clients_count > 0)" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/425407
<mathiaz> bug 304437
<mathiaz> bug 343870
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 304437 in openldap2.3 "null_callback: error code 0x12" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/304437
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 343870 in php5 "php-cli segmentation fault with mysql extension" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/343870
<ttx> zul: yes, just talk to them :)
<zul> heh
<ttx> zul: ok, nominate them. Though at this moment working on SRU is prio -1
<zul> ttx: okies
<mathiaz> ok - all the nominated lists are emtpy
<mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/acceptedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
<mathiaz> zul: how are things moving on these?
<zul> slowly as usual
<ttx> zul: you should assign yourself to those you intend to fix in a reasonable timeframe, so that others can have a shot at them
<zul> ttx: they are all uploaded to proposed its just getting people to test them
<zul> or getting feedback for them
<ttx> oO
<ttx> impressive
<mathiaz> ok
<mathiaz> zul: did you start to use bzr branches?
<mathiaz> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server/+activereviews
<mathiaz> ^^ there are a couple of them here
<zul> mathiaz: I did!
<mathiaz> zul: has the ipsec-tools SRU branch been reviewed?
<zul> mathiaz: none have been reviewed
<mathiaz> zul: sbeattie should have a look at them
<zul> mathiaz: ill bug him about it
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> zul: you can just add him a reviewer
<ttx> 1 minute of open discussion ...
<zul> mathiaz: sure
<ttx> anything on anyone's mind ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Agree on next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Agree on next meeting date and time
<ttx> Our rescheduling effort is a total failure, so next week, same time same place :)
<mathiaz> ttx: total ??
<nijaba> yep...
<mathiaz> ttx: I'd say - it's under way
<ttx> mathiaz: its because you have some optimism left in you ;)
<mathiaz> ttx: :)
<smoser> i think mathiaz needs to write a replacement for that scheduler that recognizes daylight savings time.
<ttx> btw, look at waht the wonderful Desktop team does: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/MeetingTime
<mathiaz> smoser: sure ... done - it's called...
<mathiaz> smoser: ... pen and paper
<zul> i would say ongoing
<smoser> mathiaz, i'll mail you my schedule today
<ttx> mathiaz: could we use something like that ?
<mathiaz> ttx: seems like a good plan
<mathiaz> ttx: if that improves the current situation - the doc team was using something similar
<ttx> mathiaz: they are so great.
<mathiaz> ttx: it won't solve the DST time issue so
<mathiaz> ttx: it won't solve the DST time issue *though*
<ttx> mathiaz: but you can wiki-edit it when that time comes
<mathiaz> ttx: agreed - I'll create a similar wiki page for the server tema
<zul> damn farmers
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:04.
<mathiaz> ttx: and we'll see if that becomes *a* *total* *failure* as well
<ttx> thanks everyone
 * nurmi waves and thanks all 
<ttx> nurmi: I have a question for you, -> #ubuntu-server
 * cking shuffles in
<lieb> It's raining cats&dogs here so I guess I'm wading in
 * amitk waddles in
 * apw zones out
 * jjohansen here
<bjf-afk> Roll Call
 * manjo in
 * cking here
<apw> here
 * amitk here
 * rtg waves
 * lieb here
 * sconklin waves
<bjf> #startmeeting
 * pgraner \o/
<MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is bjf.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
 * smb is late
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: Bugs (Release Meeting Bugs / RC Milestoned Bugs / Release Targeted Bugs
<ogasawara> just a sec
<bjf> :-)
<ogasawara> Release Meeting Bugs (13 bugs) - https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<ogasawara> ===
<ogasawara> RC Milestoned Bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12698
<ogasawara>  * 3 linux kernel bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12698
<ogasawara>  * 5 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux-fsl-imx51/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12698
<ogasawara>  * 1 linux-ec2 bug - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux-ec2/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12698
<rtg> bjf, just uploaded 2.6.31-14.46. If the bug fixes aren't in there, then they likely won't make it.
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux-mvl-dove/+bugs?field.milestone%3Alist=12698
<ogasawara> ===
<ogasawara> * Release Targeted Bugs (17 bugs) - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<ogasawara>  * 14 linux kernel bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux
<ogasawara>  * 7 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux-fsl-imx51
<ogasawara>  * 1 linux-ec2 bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux-ec2
<ogasawara>  * 2 linux-mvl-dove bugs - https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/karmic/+source/linux-mvl-dove
<ogasawara> Milestoned Features - https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/ubuntu-9.10
<bjf> anyone want to comment on any of that?
<pgraner> Yea
<pgraner> Keeping with what rtg said just a sec ago
<rtg> If the bug fixes aren't in there, then they likely won't make it.
<rtg> that one?
<pgraner> We need to touch every one of these bugs and retarget for post release
<pgraner> rtg: yep
<bjf> we got a FSL patch about 45 minutes ago that fix two imx51 bugs
<amitk> can we get an upload for arm?
<apw> lets hope some of them close as it releases
<pgraner> or make a decision if they will every get fixed
<apw> the arm uploads are waiting on you
<pgraner> s/every/ever/
<rtg> still have to upload EC2 yet today
<apw> i am rebaseing them to the latest upload now, then i'll touch you for the patches
<bjf> apw, its a single, trivial patch
<pgraner> Ok, let talk ARM & EC2 at the proper agenda items
<bjf> pgraner, can we move on?
<pgraner> The bottom line is we need to have a disposition on all the bugs that ogasawara listed ASAP
<pgraner> I'd like to see it prior to freeze if possible
<rtg> certainly before steve builds his release meeting agenda
<pgraner> rtg: exactly
<amitk> what day is that?
<rtg> Friday
<bjf> pgraner, we (amit and I) were asked to report arm bug status in this meeting (we have 4 bugs to discuss)
<pgraner> amitk: usually Thurs night
<amitk> pgraner: ack
<pgraner> bjf: understood
<pgraner> bjf: this was more about the overall targeting of the stragglers
<bjf> pgraner, ack
<pgraner> bjf: lets keep it moving
<bjf> [TOPIC] Karmic Release Status: ARM Bugs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Karmic Release Status: ARM Bugs
<bjf> bug 427289 bug 446140 bug 431963 bug 450363
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 427289 in linux-fsl-imx51 "hardware clock not saved if board power is removed on babbage 2.5" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/427289
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446140 in linux-fsl-imx51 "regulator issues with 2.6.31 vs 2.6.28 with the same patchset" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446140
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431963 in linux-fsl-imx51 "io/fs errors when launching gdm on imx51 with sata" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431963
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 450363 in linux-mvl-dove "binfmt misc missing from config" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/450363
<bjf> Just before the meeting I received a patch from Nguyen Dinh, a fsl engineer, that seems to fix both the regulator and RTC bugs.
<bjf> I've not looked at the io/fs errors with sata bug.
<bjf> I'll get onto 450363 today and do another, general, review of the config options for dove.
<bjf> that's all from me, Amit?
<amitk> i suspect the sata issues could be related to the regulator issues but since it shows up for only a single user, it is awaiting his testing
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-new-kernel-on-lts (rtg)
<rtg> bjf, uh, weren't we gonna drop this item for now?
<bjf> [ACTION] bjf to drop from agenda
<MootBot> ACTION received:  bjf to drop from agenda
<bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-karmic-suspend-resume (manjo)
<manjo> nothing to report there
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: AppArmor (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> closed out 415632
<apw> bug 415632
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 415632 in linux "apparmor not properly handling file deletion on NFS" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/415632
<jjohansen> still looking at  40f71028
<apw> whats that then?
<jjohansen> and 446524, with kees
<rtg> jjohansen, thats an odd number, 40f71028
<jjohansen> sorry 4071028
<apw> bug
<apw> bug 4071028
<ubottu> Error: Launchpad bug 4071028 could not be found
<apw> bug 446524
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446524 in apparmor "aa-logprof: doesn't parse new null profile syntax" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446524
<jjohansen> oops, paste is not working so well just a sec
<jjohansen> bug 446118
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446118 in linux "BUG: unable to handle kernel paging request at 40f71028" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446118
<jjohansen> I need to also finishing doing some updates to AA, and repost to LKML this week
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale/Marvell (amitk, bjf)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: ARM-Freescale/Marvell (amitk, bjf)
<bjf> dove is stable, no new updates from MVL
<apw> we have one patch pending yes?
<apw> a config change?
<bjf> apw, working on it, a config change
<rtg> bjf, Freescale is a different story I hear?
<amitk> on vacation last week so only looked at imx51 status since yesterday.
<bjf> rtg, yes, other than the fix that just came in, there are a few bugs
<amitk> a sound bug and ethernet driver bug were fixed by bjf (FSL patches) and jeremy
<bjf> it looks like the patch we just got didn't fix all the regulator issues, but maybe enough for now
<amitk> and two more will likely get fixed with the patch that bjf mentioned
<bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Karmic Kernel Status (jjohansen)
<jjohansen> The rebased kernels passed smoke testing
<rtg> jjohansen, another rebase coming today.
<jjohansen> and I haven't received any feedback on the virtual config kernels I built
<jjohansen> rtg: yep, I will test as soon as it hits
<rtg> I'll git 'er done right after the meeting
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Karmic (rtg, apw)
<rtg> bjf, it compiles, ship it.
<apw> karmic just got some more stable updates
<bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (smb)
<smb> * Dapper:   2.6.15-54.79 (security)
<smb> * Hardy:    2.6.24-24.61 (updates)
<smb> * Intrepid: 2.6.27-14.41 (updates)
<smb> * Jaunty    2.6.28-15.52 (updates)
<smb> (yes its exactly the same as last week)
<smb> There is a new security release in the works which ogasawara was handling this
<smb> time. Thanks!
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> Current regression stats:
<ogasawara>  * regression-potential bugs: 36 (down 3) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-potential
<ogasawara>  * regression-release bugs: 42 (up 1)  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-release
<ogasawara>  * regression-update bugs: 9 (down 1)  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-update
<ogasawara>  * regression-proposed: 0 (no change) https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.tag=regression-proposed
<bjf> any discussion?
<apw> ogasawara, do these stats
<apw> give you the real closed stats in down, or a week on week delta
<ogasawara> apw: week on week delta
<apw> any way we can get the former perhaps?
<ogasawara> apw: yup, should be easy enough
<bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090929.html
<ogasawara> Off to a good start, 35% (88 bugs) have already been worked on
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20090929.html
<apw> with it being kernel-in-the-can day i think we've been distracted
<ogasawara> apw: I was actually surprised to see that many worked on
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
<bjf> once
<bjf> twice
<cking> ogasawara, was that an old link?
<ogasawara> cking: oops, indeed.  should be http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20091013.html
<apw> [link] http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20091013.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/kernel-bugday/20091013.html
<bjf> that sound like that's all
<bjf> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:24.
<smb> \o
<lieb> bye'
<cking> ttfn
<amitk> thanks
<lifeless> persia: doh; jetlagged last night
<lifeless> elky: ^
<lifeless> please feel free to SMS me if I'm not around for a meeting
<lifeless> I may be reachable and just failing at memory
<elky> lifeless: email me your mobile number at your next convenient moment. i don't seem to have it any more.
<lifeless> elky: pst'd. its also on facebook :P
<elky> i dont think i've touched facebook in weeks, heh
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-14
<james_w> hi
<robbiew> yo
<mvo> hi
<liw> heippa
<robbiew> #startmeeting
<evand> hi
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:00. The chair is robbiew.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<cjwatson> hi
<robbiew> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/1014#Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2009/1014#Agenda
<robbiew> [TOPIC] BUGS!!!
<MootBot> New Topic:  BUGS!!!
<robbiew> anything anyone wants to bring up here?
<cjwatson> dear god there are a lot of them *sweat*
<mterry_> hi
<evand> We are having some issues with webkit bailing out in the installer slideshow, causing the installer to crash.
<robbiew> :/
<cjwatson> any luck with the new upstream release there?
<Keybuk> cjwatson: I actually think that we're in a better state than in jaunty
<evand> there's a wrench stuck in the buildds
<evand> waiting on elmo to fix things in #soyuz
<cjwatson> (there was some suggestion that that might fix it, but the changelog is woefully unclear)
<cjwatson> Keybuk: that may be true, I don't quite recall ...
<Keybuk> cjwatson: we don't have random intel hangs this time ;)
<robbiew> evand: is there a workaround for the installer slideshow issue?
<robbiew> or is it random, so trying again may work
<evand> sudo apt-get remove ubiquity-slideshow-ubuntu
<evand> in the live environment
<Keybuk> :-(
<Keybuk> but the slideshow is made of awesome
<robbiew> ouch
<robbiew> yeah
<cjwatson> the slideshow bug doesn't happen to everyone FWIW; I've never seen it in kvm
<robbiew> damn...too bad we don't have a "skip the slideshow" option in the installer :/
<cjwatson> nor on real hw I think
<evand> indeed, me either
<robbiew> cjwatson: ack...me neither
<robbiew> in both real and virtual environments
<evand> fingers crossed on the latest version fixing it, or someone coming along with a decent stack trace
<robbiew> pulling it would be rough, as it's already gotten some positive press
<evand> interestingly, some of the crashes are not triggering apport
<evand> there may be another installer bug here, as I've seen at least one report where removing the slideshow doesn't fix things
<evand> and the logs are absent of any kind of crash information
<evand> for what it's worth, the bugs I'm tracking around these crashes are 445756 441709 448252 440922 442560 and probably more
<robbiew> ok, thanks
<cjwatson> the set of grub bugs that relate to device ordering changes are still open
<cjwatson> (sorry, don't have the bug numbers to hand right now, am rebooting to test usplash bits)
<cjwatson> I have a branch that hopefully addresses a lot of that, but I've had difficulty getting time to finish it and get it landed
<robbiew> ok, np...understand the need for a 48hour workday ;)
<cjwatson> so I don't think that is going to land for tonight; if somebody would like to be another pair of eyes at some point, that would be great
<robbiew> anyone with time to help cjwatson?
<robbiew> liw? james_w?
<liw> I can arrange time; I have no expertese in grub and tend to run away from it screaming :(
<cjwatson> FWIW this is mostly the upper layer, not much in the boot loader parts itself
<james_w> I only have a couple of tasks due today, so I could try and help
<cjwatson> ok, I'll get in touch with one or the other of you then, thanks - probably tomorrow at this rate
<robbiew> anyone else need to add to my heartburn? :P
<Keybuk> robbiew: if mdz calls, tell him everything will be ok :p
<robbiew> heh
<cjwatson> not the other one? :)
<Keybuk> not the other one *just yet*
<robbiew> lol
<robbiew> okay moving on
<robbiew> not going to say much about the Sponsorship Queue at this point in the release ;)
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Activity Reports
<MootBot> New Topic:  Activity Reports
<Keybuk> mterry_: did you want somebody to upload rsyslog for you?
<cjwatson> I think I originally set reports to Tuesday because that meant they were as current as possible for the meeting; but that may not be all that big an issue any more
<mterry_> Keybuk, yes, to fix a kernel message buffering issue from the upstart migration.  bug 430220
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 430220 in rsyslog "[karmic] Upstart fixups" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/430220
<cjwatson> since people are more in the habit of just bringing stuff up
<robbiew> well, I'm fine with Tuesday..but it seems like most come in on Thurs or Fri :)
<robbiew> if sending a simple reminder helps
<robbiew> I can do that
<liw> so, changing the dl to Fri would ensure they come in next Tue? :)
<robbiew> no problem
<mterry_> (I know this is a temporary problem, but OEM has theirs due on Fri/Mon)
<Keybuk> mterry_: can you mail me the diff.gz you want uploaded? :p
<mterry_> Keybuk, ok
<Keybuk> robbiew: there's, of course, a difference between when they're due and what dates they cover ;)
<mterry_> (And it would be nice for me if my two reports were due same time)
<robbiew> yeah...that's true
<robbiew> and I know for slangasek, Friday is bad release-wise
 * mvo don't mind when they are due
<robbiew> b/c we drop on Thursdays and meet on Fridays...so maybe Tuesdays is best
<robbiew> but they could cover the preceding Mon-Fri?
<mterry_> Could they cover the previous week?
<mterry_> +1
<robbiew> +1 from the guy who leaves in 2 weeks :P
<mterry_> Hey, there may be future swappers
<robbiew> true
<robbiew> IMO, I think it's easier to think in terms of Mon-Fri...and then send it in by the next Tuesday
<robbiew> but that's just me
<evand> I'd agree with that
<mvo> sounds good to me
<robbiew> okay...let's do that
<robbiew> I'll send out a note to the team after the meeting
<robbiew> [ACTION] robbiew send note about Activity Reports
<MootBot> ACTION received:  robbiew send note about Activity Reports
<robbiew> [TOPIC] Good News
<MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
<Keybuk> I fixed usplash \o/
<Keybuk> Bad News is that I now need therapy for the amount of svgalib I ingested in the process
<robbiew> heh
<mterry_> nice
<evand> I discovered apport-collect, which should make things easier.  So thanks to pitti.
<robbiew> lol
<evand> oh and the buildds are working again
<cjwatson> furthermore, after some bouncing back and forth between Keybuk and me, Keybuk might have found a way to lose the text switch between usplash and X
<robbiew> that would really be nice
<liw> LP started talking to me again this afternoon
<cjwatson> it does appear to require an X change as well, and I think display manager changes too
<cjwatson> Keybuk has it working for him on his madly hacked system, now I'm trying to reproduce the hacks ;-)
<robbiew> this is good and bad...as now DX will have ammunition for why we should own the boot splash work :P
<Keybuk> well, kinda working, it only works if I use nouveau, and then X doesn't work so well <g>
<robbiew> well hell
<robbiew> lol
<cjwatson> I think the basics work on Intel
<cjwatson> but I need to grab an X server from one of Bryce's two zillion PPAs first
<cjwatson> it basically works on KMS; non-KMS is still going to be ugly
<cjwatson> but that's OK, IMO
<robbiew> [TOPIC] AOB?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
<robbiew> Book UDS travel
<robbiew> yeehaw
<robbiew> lol
<slangasek> book UDS travel... two weeks ago? :)
 * mvo has done this some days ago
 * robbiew is driving
 * robbiew is out next week on holiday...so cjwatson is in charge
<robbiew> :D
<robbiew> however, cjwatson is out next Thurs...so Keybuk is in charge
<robbiew> that day...run for your lives!!!
<robbiew> lol
<evand> god save us
<cjwatson> nothing important happens next Thursday, does it?
<slangasek> oh good, I can sleep in Thursday
<robbiew> heh
<evand> lol
<Keybuk> I hate you all
<robbiew> lmao
<robbiew> with that...
<robbiew> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:33.
<liw> thanks
 * mvo waves
 * slangasek waves
<evand> thanks
 * marjo waves
<davmor2> hello
<marjo> #startmeeting
<pedro_> hola!
<MootBot> Meeting started at 11:59. The chair is marjo.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<marjo> hi folks,
 * fader waves.
<bdmurray> hi
<marjo> QA Meeting Agenda
<ara> hey
<sbeattie> hey
<marjo> Agenda:
<marjo>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<marjo>     * Bugday highlights -- pedro
<marjo>     * Next week is RC -- ara
<marjo> Any other agenda items to add?
<marjo> [TOPIC] SRU testing - sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<MootBot> New Topic:  SRU testing - sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
<sbeattie> SRU Activity for the past week (since 2009-10-07) was very light:
<sbeattie> * Jaunty: 1 new package in -proposed (smart) and none pushed to -updates
<sbeattie> * Intrepid: no new packages in -proposed and none pushed to -updates
<sbeattie> * Hardy: 1 new package in -proposed (adept) and 1 pushed to -updates (zsync)
<sbeattie> * Dapper: no non-security activity
<sbeattie> Thanks to Dave Morley (davmor2) for testing zsync this week.
<davmor2> \o/
<sbeattie> There's at least one SRU that needs testing that would be good to get published before release: adept on updating from kubuntu/hardy to karmic.
<pedro_> what's the bug number?
<sbeattie> bug 439706, I think
<davmor2> I can have a run at that tomorrow morning for you sbeattie
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 439706 in adept "support hardy to karmic upgrades" [Undecided,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/439706
<sbeattie> davmor2: that'd be awesome, thanks!
<sbeattie> For the record, people interested in testing SRUs can always check the list of packages in the queue at http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/pending-sru.html
<sbeattie> That's all I have, unless there are any more questions...
<marjo> thx, sbeattie
<marjo> [TOPIC] Bugday highlights -- pedro
<MootBot> New Topic:  Bugday highlights -- pedro
<pedro_> On Thursday 08 of October we had a bug day based on Confirmed Bugs without a package
<ScottK> sbeattie: The adept SRU is important since Hardy is going out of support for Kubuntu
<pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20091008
<pedro_> we had a great participation from the community, 58 bugs were triaged, thanks a lot to lfaraone, kamus, pwlars, hggdh2, gotunandan, simono and gothicx
<pedro_> for the current week, we're celebrating a Bug day for the Server Team
<pedro_> the progress so far is great: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20091014
<pedro_> ttx and zul are doing a super work there also answering questions on the #ubuntu-bugs channel
<pedro_> and as always, any kind of help there is more than welcome :-)
<marjo> thx pedro_
<marjo> [TOPIC] Next week is RC (ara)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Next week is RC (ara)
<ara> Just a reminder that next week is RC week. This is one of the most important milestones
<ara> Try to keep your images as synced as possible, to start the testing early
<ara> :)
<davmor2> ara: just depends on how early slangasek lets us ;)
<marjo> davmor2: so true
<ara> davmor2, indeed, but if the images are synced, when he says, ready, steady, go! we are ready to go ;-)
<davmor2> So true
<davmor2> ara: are we coordinating efforts on u-testing?
<ara> davmor2, as usual
<slangasek> you can test any time you want, you don't have to take my word for it that the ISOs are known not to be ready :)
<fader> Hehe
<marjo> ara: anything else?
<ara> marjo, that's it
<marjo> [TOPIC] Checkbox in Karmic (cr3)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Checkbox in Karmic (cr3)
<cr3> There is current a new version of Checkbox building for Karmic, 0.8.4
<cr3> This fixes many bugs which were oustanding, most importantly relating to dbus
<cr3> The command line interface has also been improved to finally work properly
<cr3> Hope everyone will appreciate the fixes and keep reporting bugs!
<davmor2> useful :)
<marjo> cr3: anything else?
<cr3> That's about it, I expect another version will be needed to reach perfection for karmic :)
<marjo> cr3: thx!
<marjo> folks: anything else for today's meeting?
<davmor2> nope
<ara> nothing on my side
<marjo> going once
<marjo> twice
<marjo> ok, i propose we adjourn the meeting
 * fader feels like he should bid something.
<marjo> fader: too late
<marjo> ok, folks, thx again and go Karmic RC!
<cr3> fader: 500 quatloos on the newcomer!
<fader> \o/
<fader> cr3: Geek :P
<marjo> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:20.
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-15
<delphiexile> register anatoray delphiexile@gmail.com
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-16
 * marjo waves
<pitti> o/
 * apw zones in
<Riddell> good afternoon friends
<Riddell> this meeting is lacking a certain je ne sais quoi
<pitti> je ne parlez-pas francois
<Riddell> "parle" "francais"
<apw> et tu brute
<davmor2> Riddell: he said he didn't :)
<Riddell> slangasek?  how's your french?
<lool> Riddell: francois is old french
<lool> it's even more impressive  ;)
<lool> pardon c'est encore plus impressionant
<Riddell> c'est supercool
 * pitti checks the channel again
<cjwatson> Riddell: a certain je ne sais qui, perhaps
<Riddell> robbiew: able to phone slangasek?  he might need woken up
<robbiew> yeah...let me check
<cjwatson> I can't chair, I have a lot of other urgent stuff to do at the same time - maybe somebody else can
<robbiew> slangasek is on his way
<robbiew> ;)
<slangasek> morning, folks
<pitti> hey slangasek
<slangasek> (sorry)
<pitti> slangasek: you still have a feeling about "morning" vs. "night" these days? Impressive
<njpatel> hey
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 10:11. The chair is slangasek.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Actions from previous meetings
<MootBot> New Topic:  Actions from previous meetings
<slangasek>   * slangasek and bdmurray to garden the regression-potential bugs
<slangasek>   * slangasek to look at possible Kubuntu-only EOL announcement for 8.04
<slangasek>   * asac__ to follow up on notify-osd/gpm regression
<slangasek>   * marjo and slangasek to follow up on getting eucalyptus tests updated on tracker (DONE)
<apw> slangasek, am covering kernel for pgraner
<slangasek>   * davmor2 to test wubi with syncio->sync fix ASAP (DONE)
<slangasek>   * lool to confirm that shipping jaunty OOo .so w/o source is legal
<slangasek>   * kirkland to discuss virtio for uec with Dan today (Bug:432154)
<slangasek>   * sistpoty|work to draft another call for help w/ FTBFS (DONE)
<slangasek> apw: ack
<asac> asac: scratch that follow up please ;) its not a release critical thing (though we discussed it here in context)
<asac> slangasek: ^^
<slangasek> asac: ok
<kirkland> slangasek: our dynamic block storage and virtio bugs were fixed on Wednesday
<slangasek> regression-potential bugs> will finish up today
<slangasek> kirkland: great, thanks
<lool> I checked with legal and it's ok to ship the jaunty binary but they would like us to include a note in debian/copyright
<slangasek> the jaunty OOO .so has also been addressed; we need a change added to the debian/copyright, which ccheney will add in the next (and hopefully final!) OOo upload
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> kubuntu EOL> still to be addressed
<slangasek> [TOPIC] QA Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  QA Team
<marjo> Hardware testing:
<marjo> http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Netbooks
<marjo>    passed:      10 (91%)        failed:      0  ( 0%)  untested:  1  ( 9%)
<marjo> Laptops:
<marjo>    passed:      26 (96%)        failed:      0  ( 0%)   untested:    1  ( 4%)
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~fader/hw-testing/current.html
<marjo> Servers:
<marjo>    passed:      42 (91%)        failed:      0  ( 0%)   untested:    4  ( 9%)
<marjo> Desktops
<marjo>    passed:      10 (100%)       failed:      0  (  0%)  untested:    0  (  0%)
<marjo> current test results look good
<marjo> that's it for QA
<pitti> wow
<pitti> 0 failures?
<slangasek> we're still waiting on checkbox results from the NC10?
<fader> slangasek: Correct; manjo still has that hardware and just finished bugfixing
<fader> (as of yesterday)
<marjo> pitti: once we get manjo's results, we'll get another 100%
<slangasek> presumably :)
 * fader keeps his fingers crossed.
 * pitti knocks on wood
<marjo> slangasek: positive thinking man!
<slangasek> marjo: are there any bugs that are coming to QA's attention that you're concerned about for the release, that haven't yet been targeted?
<marjo> none that i'm aware of
<marjo> your critical bugs seem appropriate
<slangasek> ok, great
<slangasek> if you notice anything we're overlooking, please yell :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Desktop Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Desktop Team
<marjo> you bet!
<pitti> This week the PolicyKit-1 migration was completed with the upload of checkbox. We also got some bug fix releases of the X.org stack, humanity icon theme, and a flood of bug fixes for fixing highly visible bugs such as the broken handling of music players.
<pitti> The artwork copyright situation finally got resolved, after much internal discussion.
<pitti> RC bug fixing went on with full speed, with good results, but they keep coming...
<pitti> Notable planned change: Next Monday the new GNOME point release is due, and we traditionally squeezed that into final (and so far managed to do so). We'll put extra resources into getting it all uploaded and working on Monday.
<slangasek> sounds good
<pitti> as usual, detailled bug status is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus (also two new ones which weren't on the meeting invite list yet)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus
<Riddell> Kubuntu has made very pleasing progress on RC bugs, issues with KDM, openoffice, Qt, translations all sorted
<Riddell> two notable ones on my radar still
<Riddell> upgrade from hardy broken, bug 452090, mvo says it's an issue with apt, not sure if any more is known
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452090 in apt "adept fails to upgrade from hardy -> karmic" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452090
<Riddell> apps launcher on kubuntu netbook keeps breaking, bug  446905, ScottK has narrowed with down to some recently change in kdelibs so it shouldn't be too hard to narrow it down to what actually caused the problem
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446905 in plasma-netbook "Missing applications on desktop launcher" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446905
<Riddell> oh and we did a late upgrade of sip/python-qt due to licencing change which broke pykde for a while but that should be sorted now
<pitti> Riddell: ^ I tested it with apport and jockey, WFM again
<pitti> thanks for sorting that out
<pitti> Riddell: there's also bug 339313 open still
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 339313 in plasma-widget-networkmanagement "Kubuntu Jaunty: Cannot Connect To Wireless Network with WEP shared key" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/339313
<slangasek> hmm, so 452090 probably needs resolved / worked around before we do a kubuntu 8.04 EOL announcement
<pitti> is that direct hardy->karmic, or hardy->jaunty->karmic?
<Riddell> pitti: mm, is an upstream issue really but yes it would be very nice to have fixed
<pitti> (hardy->jaunty was supported, right?)
<slangasek> pitti: right, though that's effectively degenerated into a metabug
<Riddell> pitti: hardy->karmic
<Riddell> slangasek: I'm hoping mvo can look into it, I don't know if anyone else is familiar enough with apt
<pitti> Riddell: you said that we could probably close 339313 and open another one for the remaining (corner?) case?
<Riddell> pitti: oh yes, I should do that
<slangasek> Riddell: fwiw, I was pinged directly yesterday by the minirok upstream about the python-qt upgrade breaking that package due to incompatibilities; I sponsored in a quick bugfix-only release, but you guys might want to be aware and look around for other breakage in the reverse-deps
<pitti> it became too much of a dumping ground
<pitti> "Minirok" *chuckle*
<Riddell> slangasek: ok I didn't know that, we will be testing pyqt bits closely
<slangasek> pitti, Riddell: yes, having a clean bug for that issue would be nice :)
<pitti> any questions wrt. desktop?
<slangasek> none from me
<slangasek> [TOPIC] DX Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  DX Team
<slangasek> pitti, Riddell: thanks
<slangasek> davidbarth: hi
<davidbarth> hi
<davidbarth> the report is up at the usual location:
<davidbarth> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> of note this week
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopExperienceTeam/KarmicReleaseStatus
<davidbarth> all bugs on the radar fixed, mostly by the last xsplash upload on thursday
<davidbarth> n-osd: no upload however on Thursday, but we still have bugs
<davidbarth> and now fixes, mostly for the last crashers that were reported
<davidbarth> as of this afternoon all the critical ones are fix committed
<davidbarth> we're also reviewing icon mappings to add missing symlinks to notify-osd-icons
<davidbarth> to remap nm or gpm notification icons to the new ones provided specifically for n-osd
 * ScottK is here now.
<davidbarth> this is tracked as #453066
<pitti> oh, they are still wrong in some cases?
<slangasek> I see mention of a pending change regarding notify-osd icons; it's already quite late to be making such changes, since that's a UI Freeze exception - how much is changing, and when is that expected to land?
<Riddell> agateau had an issue in the Kubuntu patches he wanted to fix to make the message indicator consisten with gnome in showing apps rather than toggle show/hide, so patches for that may appear soon.  I said they should be easily readable and tested in a PPA first
<davidbarth> Riddell: yes too, next line on the report ;)
<lool> (I added links to the bugs on the wiki page)
<Riddell> sorry davidbarth, I'm stealing your moment of glory :)
<davidbarth> slangasek: i'll have a list by the end of the afternoon
<slangasek> ok
<davidbarth> slangasek: that's mostly regressions AFAICT, but i do a full review to make sure of that
<davidbarth> icon naming is always a pain
<davidbarth> Riddell: np
<slangasek> even if they're regressions, at this point in the cycle we need to coordinate with the docs team so they know what's changing that may affect their screenshots
<davidbarth> Riddell: i think the change makes sense on both desktop, but i know that for users of systray status icons the toggle mode was a welcome change
<davidbarth> slangasek: yep, i know, i already had to ping them about another change earlier :-(
<davidbarth> last there is a low prio rhythmbox bug
<davidbarth> but it unearthed a quirk in our API compatibility
<davidbarth> that's it mostly
<davidbarth> questions?
<slangasek> none here; anyone else?
<lool> Any planned bug fix release?
<davidbarth> n-osd around tuesday
<lool> Ok; thanks
<davidbarth> ie, the set of patches should be ready by then
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Mobile Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Mobile Team
<slangasek> davidbarth: thanks
<lool> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lool> Overview of overall status (more details since we're close to release):
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<lool> * UNR: good shape * wubi still needs testing * we'd like to SRU [[Bug:447886|#447886: On startup Gnome Keyring asks for password in the background]]
<lool> * general armel stuff
<lool>   * toolchain not fully fixed, other issues crept in
<lool>   * openoffice needs an upload for copyright fix and preferably against latest toolchain
<lool> * armel+mx51: ok
<lool>   * SATA I/O errors are a bit ugly
<lool>   * should rebuild some packages now that the PIC issue is fixed
<lool>   * need to test Babbage 2.0 again
<lool> * armel+dove: ok
<lool>   * Installation is very slow, I/O errors during install; slightly worrying
<lool>   * Need to update installation instructions to cover bootrom update; should get last uboot next week
<lool>   * Work ongoing to support manual partitioning correctly (partman-uboot); need to finish changes in ubiquity
<lool>   * need to drop mem= from kernel flags
<lool> * Ubuntu Moblin Remix: ok
<lool>   * installation issues are all believed to be fixed but need testing; the APT error might have reappeared
<lool> (does someone know whether wubi is supposed to work ATM?  I got reports that it was only fixed for some people)
<davmor2> lool: kinda but not properly.  No more grub issue
<davidbarth> lool: is there something we can do fo #447886 in netbook-launcher? this one is a nasty usability bug...
<slangasek> lool: the list of milestoned bugs on that page is a bit difficult to read, fixed bugs are mixed in with open ones; could that be cleaned up next week?
<lool> davidbarth: Well I suggested that netbook-launcher should foreground all existing real windows at the end of startup
<lool> slangasek: I drop them when they are fixed; I will try to sort them next time, sorry
<slangasek> which packages are you wanting rebuilt for PIC?
<lool> (I keep them only for one more week when they are fixed)
<lool> slangasek: I wanted to rerun my script on a desktop install now that uploads have calmed down
<slangasek> ok
<lool> (doko suggested that if I were to push rebuild-only uploads, it would hurt slow arches)
<lool> davidbarth: But after discussion with njpatel, we found it a bit intrusive for final, so I proposed it as a SRU
<lool> davidbarth: If you think we can fix it, that would be nice
<davidbarth> lool: hmm ok, we'll take a second look
<lool> thanks
<slangasek> any questions on mobile?
<lool> slangasek: I've moved fixed bugs at the top of the list now
<doko> lool: well, not this point
<slangasek> cheers
<lool> doko: Yeah, that was last week
<lool> doko: Now it would be ok
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Server Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Server Team
<slangasek> lool: thanks
<slangasek> kirkland: hi
<kirkland> slangasek: yessir
<slangasek> kirkland: status to report on the server team? :)
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
<slangasek> ttx sent me that yesterday
<kirkland> slangasek: ah, yessir.  server team = cloud right now
<kirkland> slangasek: which = eucalyptus;  things have come along very, very well
<kirkland> slangasek: we do expect to file an upload exception today
<kirkland> slangasek: we've been testing overnight
<kirkland> slangasek: awaiting the feedback from Eucalyptus Systems' testing overnight, as well
<kirkland> slangasek: apologies in advance for the upload
<kirkland> slangasek: though it does solve all of our remaining release critical bugs
<slangasek> "file an upload exception" - please bear in mind that unless there are specific doubts about the acceptability of the upload, it's preferable to do the upload and let it be reviewed in queue
<kirkland> slangasek: understood; i'll get on that
<slangasek> mathiaz: did you have anything to add?
<kirkland> slangasek: i really want to touch base with the eucalyptus.com guys
<mathiaz> slangasek: bug 451881
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451881 in ec2-init "ssh public key fingerprint not available on console in UEC environement" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451881
<slangasek> (I see ttx designated you as the representative in his mail)
<mathiaz> slangasek: found this yesterday - it's an issue with the uec images
<slangasek> hmm, wasn't that bug fixed once before?
<mathiaz> slangasek: well - it was in ec2
<slangasek> oh, ok
<mathiaz> slangasek: turns out that UEC is different
<mathiaz> slangasek: EC2 is xen - UEC uses kvm
 * slangasek nods
<mathiaz> slangasek: so we may have to adjust things on UEC as well
<mathiaz> slangasek: I've gone through the rest of milestoned bugs
<mathiaz> slangasek: and other lists that ttx sent me
<mathiaz> slangasek: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus is up-to-date
<slangasek> ok, great
<mathiaz> slangasek: as far as blueprint: server-karmic-ec2-release-process
<mathiaz> slangasek: i think that smoser is now publishing automatically daily builds of uec images
<ScottK> FYI, clamav may have a bugfix release a week from Monday, so it'll have to go to -proposed/updates, if it appears.
<mathiaz> slangasek: I don't if that covers all of the blueprint mentioned above
<smoser> mathiaz, is correct on that.
<mathiaz> slangasek: that's all for the server team
<slangasek> smoser: now that it's settled what we're publishing for UEC images, I still need to go back and finish integrating the index generation scripts
<smoser> slangasek, i still have TODO of "publishing" a build from nightly to release
<slangasek> and then we should do a milestone publishing dry run, yes
<smoser> slangasek, unless you disagree with something, i think the current output is fairly good
<slangasek> smoser: http://uec-images.ubuntu.com/karmic/current/ has no HEADER.html or .htaccess, I think we want that on dailies (and want to be able to reuse the same code for milestones instead of generating HTML by hand)
<slangasek> smoser: do you have time Monday morning to work with me on this?
<smoser> slangasek, yeah. lets do that.
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any other questions on server?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Kernel Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Team
<apw> Overall kernel team status is summarised at the URL below, including the bugs called out in the agenda.  All of these bugs are either now fixed or pushed out to karmic-updates.
<slangasek> kirkland, mathiaz, smoser: thanks
<apw> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Karmic
<apw> We have picked up v2.6.31.4 plus some rfkill fixes for Dell platforms.  x86 kernel is looking pretty good so far, we have a couple of fixes outstanding for regressions (one affecting Huawei 3G dongles, and another affecting Protege touchpad), there are likely to be others by release and we expect to close those out by SRU shortly thereafter.  The mvl-dove and fsl-imx51 kernels are both looking very good, with no installer issues outstanding at th
<apw> is time.  We just did an upload for the main kernel for a couple of udeb issues which close out debian-installer bugs as requested by the installer team.
<apw> All of the primary release tasks appear complete.  We have reduced the kernel log level by default to suppress many of the chatty messages we otherwise see during the usplash to Xsplash lull.  AppArmor should now be feature complete, and the final(?) NFS bug has been closed out.
<apw> ..
<slangasek> apw: cjwatson brought bug #451872 to my attention late yesterday, suggesting that a kernel freeze exception was in order to be able to get this fixed for the installer; has there been any follow up on that today?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 451872 in linux "e100_request_firmware fails with Karmic alternate cd (20091014.2)." [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/451872
<cjwatson> that's the udeb issues apw refers to
<cjwatson> e100 and qlogic
<slangasek> ah, yes
<apw> yep, thats one of the two udeb related issues ... i uploaded a kernel with just those two fixes this lunchtime
<apw> it appears to have been accepted and is building now
<cjwatson> I'm waiting for slow architectures to catch up, and will then do a d-i upload
<ScottK> apw: Did you get an answer yet about if we need a linux-rt upload or not?
<slangasek> sounds good
<cjwatson> well, most architectures actually
<apw> i've not heard back from themuso as yet
<ScottK> slangasek: Could we have an action for apw to check if linux-rt needs an update now?
<slangasek> [ACTION] apw to follow up on whether linux-rt needs an update
<MootBot> ACTION received:  apw to follow up on whether linux-rt needs an update
<apw> ack
<ScottK> I know you'll do it, but I want to make sure it's documented and tracked.
<slangasek> ScottK: I don't have context for this, though - why is that an outstanding question?
<apw> ScottK, thats fine ...
<apw> it seems linux-rt may be on an ISO and may need the same fixes that we just did for x86
<apw> for the installer ...
<ScottK> slangasek: linux-rt is following linux pretty closely this cycle  and I want to make sure they don't need any of the bits that got affected by the late upload.
<slangasek> apw: linux-rt isn't used in the installer
<cjwatson> indeed
<ScottK> OK.  I just want to make sure we close the loop with Ubuntu Studio.
<apw> ScottK tells me there is an ISO of it, studio or something?
<cjwatson> the installer for that ISO still uses the generic kernel
<apw> cjwatson, excellent then we can likely say there won't be an issue there
<cjwatson> we literally don't build d-i against -rt at all - it can't possibly be using it
<apw> then we are good, we can close that one out
<cjwatson> yes
<ScottK> OK.
<apw> thanks ScottK for bringing it up
<slangasek> anything else on the kernel front?
<apw> i am done
<slangasek> I was happy to see that the Dell rfkill fixes also fixed my ThinkPad just enough to let me close out the wireless hotkey regression :)
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Security Team
<slangasek> apw: thanks
<jdstrand> o/
<MootBot> New Topic:  Security Team
<slangasek> jdstrand: hi
<jdstrand> our release status page is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
<jdstrand> just a couple of things today:
<jdstrand> bug #446524
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446524 in apparmor "aa-logprof: doesn't parse new null profile syntax" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446524
<jdstrand> mdeslaur and jj are working on it
<slangasek> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/ReleaseStatus
<jdstrand> bug #452057
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452057 in evince "evince apparmor profile blocks DVI printing" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452057
<jdstrand> that one was just accepted this morning
<jdstrand> and the other one is bug #434084
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434084 in refpolicy-ubuntu "SE Linux not enabled" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434084
<kees> tresys said they'd have something for us to test/validate on monday for the selinux issue.
<jdstrand> kees wanted to talk about that one
<kees> but since it's unseeded, it shouldn't be a problem, and ought to only apply to unseeded universe packages.  I'd like to suggest we drop it from our release-team watch list.
<jdstrand> I'm cool with that. it was there only to make sure it didn't get dropped
<slangasek> ok
<jdstrand> other than that, you can see our ReleaseStatus page
<slangasek> right - thanks
<slangasek> any questions for security?
<jdstrand> sure
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Foundations Team
<MootBot> New Topic:  Foundations Team
<slangasek> jdstrand, kees: thanks again
<slangasek> cjwatson: hi
<cjwatson> hi, I'll keep it briefe
<cjwatson> with added e apparently
<cjwatson> *lots* of mountall fixes this week from Scott, so we're down to just a few remaining bits
<cjwatson> main things left that I think we *have* to fix are:
<cjwatson> bug 440281 (d-i clock setup is wrong; this is mine, been waiting too long so I will aim to close this out today)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 440281 in clock-setup "Installer (alternate-CD) saves wrong time in RTC" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/440281
<cjwatson> bug 431993 (preserve-home installs delete too many files; evand just uploaded this)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 431993 in partman-target "heavy handed installer file deletion" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/431993
<cjwatson> bug 446596 (fsck splash integration; Keybuk was working on this last night)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 446596 in mountall "fsck does not show progress during boot" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/446596
<cjwatson> a recent regression that means everyone gets an "incomplete language support" message on installation, for which there is a bug but I have forgotten the number
<cjwatson> and possibly bug 434173 (account for new language-support organisation in update-manager), although I think mvo may be too overloaded for that so it may be an SRU item
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 434173 in update-manager "[karmic] Regression from 9.04 in getting fully translated Ubuntu installation" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/434173
<cjwatson> ah yes, bug 452516
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 452516 in ubiquity ""Incomplete Language Support" for English" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/452516
<slangasek> is that it, then?
<cjwatson> all from me
<cjwatson> sorry I'm disorganised this week, been in a customer project that's taking a lot of time
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> lool also asked about wubi earlier; are we in better shape now with that?
<cjwatson> oh, sorry
<cjwatson> half of wubi is fixed; we are no longer seeing random write problems that mean grub sometimes doesn't work
<cjwatson> however, there is still a mysterious partitioner hang which we're working
<cjwatson> it's very tedious to debug wubi which is why it's taking so long :-/
 * slangasek nods
<cjwatson> but at least there is, I think, no longer suspicion that the filesystem is busted
<lool> thanks for the update
<slangasek> that's a relief
<cjwatson> I regret to say that I am not exactly certain what fixed it, though
<cjwatson> so we'll need to keep an eye on things
<slangasek> any other questions for foundations?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] MOTU
<MootBot> New Topic:  MOTU
<slangasek> cjwatson: thanks
<slangasek> ScottK: hi
<ScottK> Hi
<ScottK> We got Universe freeze timing announced https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2009-October/000634.html
<ScottK> FTBFS is still a concern.
<ScottK> The other bug question is Maven.
<ScottK> sistpoty and I just wrote doko a blank check to give it another shot
<ScottK> http://people.canonical.com/~doko/ubuntu-diff/status/maven.html
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~doko/ubuntu-diff/status/maven.html
<ScottK> Apparently a lot of people want this and so I'd rather push foward and try even if we end up having to do some SRUs if it doesn't end well.
<ScottK> That's all I have.
<doko> if the first build succeeds, it much depends on having lamont the time to redo that on a buildd
<pitti> I recently did a lot of syncs etc. for maven; so these weren't enough?
<doko> no
<slangasek> SRUs> no objections, then
<pitti> ah, right, the bootstrap, I remember
<ScottK> SRUs or last minute removals.
<ScottK> There is a consensus among the people who want maven that no maven is better than the broken one we have now.
<slangasek> I've been fixing a number of incidental FTBFSes in universe as I clean up NBS, but I guess that makes me one of the few people to meet my 5.8 FTBFS fix quota :)
<ScottK> I've been doing one or two a day, but this week's being hell for me for $WORK, so I didn't get to it.
<doko> then my quota should be >20, including the -1 for fltk1.1 ;)
<slangasek> doko: that just means you did someone else's quota, and they owe you cookies at UDS
<slangasek> anything else for MOTU?
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
<slangasek> anything else at all?
<MootBot> New Topic:  AOB
<slangasek> (ScottK: thanks)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 11:26.
<slangasek> right, back to polishing :)
<slangasek> thanks, all
<pitti> thanks all
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-17
<lfuser-048>  Hi all, my lappy's DVD RW is only able to read CDs but not DVDs.
<lfuser-048> Does anyone know what the problem might be?
#ubuntu-meeting 2009-10-18
<Steffen_Eibicht> test
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-18
<kees> jdstrand_, mdeslaur, sbeattie: meetin' time in 2 min?
<mdeslaur> kees: sure
<jdstrand_> o/
<SergioMeneses> jdstrand, \o
<sbeattie> kees: doh, I'm back now.
<mdeslaur> cool
<kees> okidoky
<kees> uhm, let's see.
<kees> I'm on triage this week.
<kees> there will be a kernel publication tomorrow that I'll be shepharding a bit, then it's back to internal audits
<kees> need to do some natty kernel rebases for all the kernel security features that aren't mainline.
<kees> and some blueprint work, but we can talk about that after status updates.
<kees> mdeslaur: all you
<mdeslaur> I'm currently testing my poppler updates
<mdeslaur> which I should be releasing tomorrow probably
<mdeslaur> and I have an embargoed issue to look at
<mdeslaur> and will be preparing my mini9 for UDS
<mdeslaur> that's it from me
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: your turn
<jdstrand> I got sidetracked last week with apparmor 2.5.1 SRUs. 2.5.1 is in natty now, and waiting for approval into -proposed for maverick and lucid
<jdstrand> I've got a bunch of mozilla updates to test/publish
<kees> s/got sidetracked/kicked ass/
<jdstrand> heh
<sbeattie> yeah
<jdstrand> well, thanks :)
<jdstrand> libvirt is almost ready to publish-- I fixed virtinst and vm-builder and just want to go through my checklists again
<jdstrand> so that should go out this week
<jdstrand> if I have time, I'll start moodle
<jdstrand> that's it from me
<jdstrand> sbeattie: your turn
<sbeattie> I spent last week in a maze of openjdk build issues; alas, apparently there's an upgrade issue and so doko will be sending me new packages, as well as something that will hopefully build on maverick/armel.
<sbeattie> so there'll be more of that this week.
<doko> sbeattie: they are there, see email
<sbeattie> doko: cool thanks, I hadn't rechecked my email in the last two hours.
<sbeattie> I got a bit behind on cve triage last week as well, so will help catch upon the backlog today.
<kees> cool, no worries
<sbeattie> I hope to get some testing in of jdstrand's apparmor SRUs this week.
<sbeattie> and I think that's everything for me.
<sbeattie> does anyone else have any issues to raise with the security team?
<sbeattie> robbiew? jj-afk?
<kees> what blueprints do we want to get into UDS?
<jj-afk> hey
<robbiew> I'm good
<robbiew> and if you need UDS sessions....let me know?
<sbeattie> kees: hrm, good question.
<jjohansen> uhm, I think we should have an AA meeting on wednesday to discuss uds
<kees> my short list is: better boottime debug/linearization, roundtable w/ kernel team on more hardening features, roundtable on what to do with our wide meaning of "medium" priority issues.
<mdeslaur> kees: re: medium issues: hide them under the mattress?
<kees> mdeslaur: done!
<mdeslaur> \o/
<sbeattie> which of the previous uncompleted blueprints do we wish to carry forward?
<kees> sbeattie: yeah, that's the other question.
<kees> I always claim I'm going to work on making dpkg fscap aware, but I never get anywhere with it.
<jdstrand> I thought we could actually discuss that there-- since the already discussed ones have been, well, already discussed
<sbeattie> jjohansen: AA meeting wednesday, +1 from me.
<kees> yeah
<kees> jdstrand: good point.
<sbeattie> kees: fscaps> heh, me too.
<jdstrand> so it is just a matter of identifying what to push forward
<jdstrand> we should look at at least lucid and maverick imo
<kees> and all our past stuff already has full work-item breakdowns...
 * jdstrand nods
<jdstrand> if there is something that needs more discussion, we could use a breakout room. or pre-allocate a time for miscellaneous things
<sbeattie> that works for me.
<kees> okay, I'll go build out the 5 days of roundtables for us, then.
 * ScottK mentions (just for fun) that the phrase "AA meeting" has other meanings.
<kees> heh
<jjohansen> ScottK: intentionally so
<jdstrand> one thing people could do to prepare is look at their postponed items from http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/lucid/canonical-security.html and http://people.canonical.com/~platform/workitems/maverick/canonical-security.html
<jjohansen> jdstrand: you mean so that we can prepare to postpone them for another cycle :)
<kees> yeah, agreed
<kees> hehe
<jdstrand> jjohansen: yes. prepare to postpone :P
 * sbeattie adds a work item "postpone other work items"
<kees> heh
<kees> okay, sounds like a wrap. :) thanks everyone!
<mdeslaur> thanks!
<jdstrand> thanks
<Dens777> ÃÃ°Ã¨Ã¢Ã¥Ã².Ã Ã¨Ã§ Ã³ÃªÃ°Ã Ã¨Ã­Ã» Ã  Ã¢Ã» Ã«Ã®ÃµÃ¨ Ã£Ã®Ã­Ã¤Ã®Ã­Ã» Ã¨ Ã¯Ã¨Ã¤Ã®Ã°Ã Ã±Ã» Ã·Ã¬Ã® Ã³Ã¥Ã¡Ã Ã­Ã®Ã¥ Ã¢Ã» Ã¥Ã¡Â¸Ã²Ã¥ Ã¢Ã Ã¸Ã³ ÃªÃ Ã¬Ã¥Ã§Ã¥ Ã¨ Ã¡Ã Ã°Ã Ã§Ã¥?Greetings. I from ua. Friends you correspond only in English?
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-19
<ogra_ac> no meeting ? or is my calendar wrong
<mpoirier> I'm also wondering...
<ogra_ac> persia, NCommander davidm ??
<davidm> No meeting, NCommander was supposed to send an announcement, I just did
<ogra_ac> thanks
<davidm> Sorry guys, I thought he had taken care of it.
<ogra_ac> no worries
<Sylvestre> ok, do you know when the next one is going to occur ?
<Sylvestre> I would like to discuss about the "dynamic list" of per package upload permissions for DD
<kees> pitti, cjwatson: hello! it looks like it's just us three for the meeting. The agenda is short, but is 3 enough?
<pitti> not for decisions IMHO, but there don't seem to be any today anyway?
<kees> well, the dynamic package upload perms thing maybe, but since cjwatson hasn't arrived yet, we're really only at 2. :)
<Sylvestre> Thanks for putting it on the top of the list btw
<kees> Sylvestre: you bet; I wanted to get it above the "every week" stuff. Though, it seems we won't have quorum this meeting. :(
<Sylvestre> OK
<kees> pitti: let's wait another 5 minutes for cjwatson, and if it's just two of us, I think we'll have to delay 2 weeks. I can chair again.
<Sylvestre> I am going to be off for pretty much 3 weeks.
<pitti> I agree
<Sylvestre> I don't think I am necessary for you
<Sylvestre> you have the information on the devel permission ML
<kees> Sylvestre: yeah, it looks that way; thanks!
<Sylvestre> bad sign :p
<kees> hah
<kees> yeah, okay, well, we're delayed until next time; I'll chair again. thanks everyone!
<pitti> thanks
<pitti> Sylvestre: sorry about that; we'll reply by mail after the next session then
<Sylvestre> thanks
 * hask anda vagando: Gone away for now
<nigelb> !away | hask
<ubottu> hask: You should avoid noisy away messages and -nicks in a busy channel like #ubuntu, or other Ubuntu channels; it causes excessive scrolling which is unfair to new users. Use the command "/away <reason>" to set your client away silently.  See also Â«/msg ubottu GuidelinesÂ»
<hask> nigelb: Oops, Sorry! I forgot to uncheck away messages. I have fixed it :(
<nigelb> thank you
<zul> gday
<ttx> o/
<hggdh> ~Ã´~
<JamesPage> o/
<mathiaz> o/
<Daviey> o/
<hallyn> \o/
<hallyn> (guess that's me being happy to be here :)
<Daviey> hallyn: sarcasm-- :)
<ttx> waiting a few more minutes
<robbiew> 0/
<ttx> missing SpamapS
<ttx> Dustin is on vacation today, I think
 * robbiew whips out the cheerleader pom-poms....*\0/*
<robbiew> heh
<jjohansen> \o
<ttx> smoser: around ?
<smoser> o/
<ttx> ok, we have quorum
<ttx> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 13:01. The chair is ttx.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<ttx> Welcome to this Ubuntu Server team IRC meeting
<ttx> Agenda is at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
<ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<ttx> * mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community (carry over)
 * mathiaz fails again
<ttx> mathiaz: you're after the world record ?
<mathiaz> ttx: no yet
<ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community (carry over)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to send out a call for ideas on ubuntu to the puppet community (carry over)
<ttx> * ALL to mark maverick assigned specs as "Implemented" or Deferred
<zul> whoops
<ttx> looking at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~jib/+specs?searchtext=maverick it's not a full success
<ttx> it's just a cleanup thing, yo uknow how much of a maniac I am
<ttx> * jjohansen to look into virtual kernel bug status (658461)
<smoser> bug 658461
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 658461 in linux (Ubuntu) "-virtual kernel missing dependent modules (ahci fails to load)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658461
<ttx> [ACTION] ALL to mark maverick assigned specs as "Implemented" or Deferred (carry over)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ALL to mark maverick assigned specs as "Implemented" or Deferred (carry over)
<jjohansen> ttx, smoser: not done yet
<ttx> * jjohansen to look into t1.micro java lockup bug (634487)
<ttx> bug 634487
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 634487 in linux (Ubuntu) "t1.micro instance hangs when installing sun java" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/634487
<ttx> jjohansen: same ?
<jjohansen> yep, actually looking at it now
<ttx> [ACTION] jjohansen to look into bug 634487 and bug 658461 (carry over)
<MootBot> ACTION received:  jjohansen to look into bug 634487 and bug 658461 (carry over)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 658461 in linux (Ubuntu) "-virtual kernel missing dependent modules (ahci fails to load)" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658461
<ttx> [TOPIC] Natty development
<MootBot> New Topic:  Natty development
<ttx> It's Syncs and merges season !
<zul> ive done my bits
<ttx> I've done part of my bits
<ttx> You should also have already filed the blueprints for the UDS sessions you want to run
<ttx> anyone has anything left ?
<mathiaz> ttx: where is the up-to-date list of BP?
<ttx> mathiaz: so that's a good question.
<mathiaz> ttx: it seems that their names is changing often these days...
<ttx> I actually created a magic page
<mathiaz> ttx: making it complicated to track where things are
<mathiaz> ttx: and whether I'm adding information to the right BP
<ttx> multiple trcaks make it a bit difficult to search for "server-n" BPs
<ttx> The magic list lives at: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ttx/+specs?role=subscriber
<ttx> i'll keep subscribed to the team-relevant blueprints
<mathiaz> ttx: right - and 'server-n' turns up a lot of unrelated specs
<ttx> corresponsing to *server-n* UDS sessions
<ttx> took me 30min to get it right, don't thank me
 * ttx filed a LP improvement request to add "tagging" to BPs
<mathiaz> ttx: great - thanks for keeping providing a simple list
<Daviey> ttx: "thanks"! :)
 * mathiaz thinks the BP may need some love dedicated to it
<ttx> jml says he wants to merge them with bugs and drop BPs
<ttx> anyway, offtopic
<ttx> does anyone still have BPs to file for UDS ?
<mathiaz> ttx: I don't think so
<ttx> I have one. There is some Canonical interest around Openvswitch
<mathiaz> ttx: however I'd like to review the ones already registed
<zul> openvswitch
<ttx> does anyone has a session where that should be mentioned, or do you think it'll make a good separate session ?
<mathiaz> ttx: to make sure relevant topics are covered
<ttx> mathiaz: right
<zul> ttx: shouldnt someone from canonical do it?
<ttx> zul: if it doesn't fit into an existing session, yes
<ttx> zul: do you think we can mention it in the missing UEC metapackaging session ?
 * Daviey nah's
<mathiaz> ttx: seems like a discussion on its own
<zul> ttx: i dont know what it has to do with UEC in the first place
<mathiaz> ttx: to figure out why we should do that, and how
<ttx> ok, I'll sort it out
<Daviey> \o/
<mathiaz> ttx: it would be useful to know the actual use case
<ttx> [ACTION] ttx to check if a session is needed around openvswitch
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to check if a session is needed around openvswitch
<ttx> UDS session participation...
<mathiaz> ttx: at last UDS there were a few sessions (eg cloud-loadbalancing) that noone knew what it was about
<ttx> so with multiple tracks it gets complicated to make sure everyone required is available
<ttx> mathiaz: I'll figure it out
<ttx> so it's more important than ever to mark your attendance
<ttx> by subscribing to the spec and making your participation essential, where it is essential
<ttx> please review https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ttx/+specs?role=subscriber
<smoser> hm...
<smoser> how would that work, ttx
<smoser> are you white listed ? since you're subscribed to all
<ttx> smoser: huh ?
<ttx> subscribing is open to anyone
<ttx> ah
<smoser> right. but the conflict resolution is done by "if this person can be there"
<ttx> so i'm not essential to all.
<smoser> ah.
<ttx> I'm subscribed to all
<ttx> (blue vs. red)
<Daviey> hmm
<Daviey> conflict resolution isn't awesome :)
<Daviey> it does it based on required essential only
<Daviey> (atm)
<ttx> ack
<mathiaz> ttx: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ttx/+specs?role=subscriber -> blue versus red?
<ttx> so please mark yourself essentail to the sessions you need to attend
<smoser> red people are essential
<mathiaz> ttx: IIRC you can only see that on the actual BP page?
<smoser> blue are not important
<smoser> :)
<ttx> yes
<ttx> mathiaz: ^
<ttx> don't mark yourself essential to more than 20 sessions, would make the scheduler constraints a bit hard
<ttx> Finally, UDS session leading
 * mathiaz thinks about an interesting DoS here
<ttx> Please set yourself as drafter on the sessions you intend to lead.
<ttx> [ACTION] ALL to subscribe to BPs where their attendance is required
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ALL to subscribe to BPs where their attendance is required
<ttx> [ACTION] ALL to set themselves as drafter where they want to lead sessions
<MootBot> ACTION received:  ALL to set themselves as drafter where they want to lead sessions
<ttx> Questions ?
<Daviey> none here.
<JamesPage> cool with me
<zul> pas rien
<ttx> (yes, I'll set the missing drafters :)
<Daviey> dammit
<ttx> better make your choice before I do.
<ttx> Going once... twice...
<ttx> [TOPIC] Maverick SRUs
<MootBot> New Topic:  Maverick SRUs
<ttx> A quick list of identified early SRUs for Maverick
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 661547 - Existing patch gssapi.diff makes guess_service_principal produce garbage
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 657149 - squid fails to upgrade (incomplete)
<ttx> #
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 661547 in openldap (Ubuntu) "Existing patch gssapi.diff makes guess_service_principal produce garbage" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/661547
<ttx> Bug 658227 - openldap fails to upgrade (in -proposed)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 657149 in squid (Ubuntu) "package squid 2.7.STABLE9-2ubuntu5 failed to install/upgrade: subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 1" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/657149
<ttx> #
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 658227 in openldap (Ubuntu Natty) "upgrade process does not upgrade underlying BDB format from 4.7 to 4.8 (so slapd aborts with "Program version 4.8 doesn't match environment version 4.7" error message)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/658227
<ttx> Bug 660227 - php5-pgsql crash on getting an error back from postgres (in -proposed)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 660227 in php5 (Ubuntu) "php5-pgsql crash on getting an error back from postgres" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/660227
<ttx> #
<ttx> Bug 600174 - axis2c fails to build from source on maverick/i386
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 600174 in axis2c (Ubuntu Natty) "axis2c fails to build from source on maverick/i386" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/600174
<ttx> The first one needs some love, once the current openldap -proposed clears the queue
<mathiaz> is the SRU tracker still working?
<mathiaz> zul: ^^?
<ttx> zul: ^ ?
<ttx> zul: ^^^?
<zul> ill go have a look today
<ttx> not too much regressions, so far
<ttx> maybe nobody uses LTS+1 server releases.
<Daviey> axis2c, i want to grab doko whilst at UDS :)
<ttx> just listing them to make they don't get forgotten. Who know what could happen in the next two weeks, right
<mathiaz> ttx: come on - every one wants to try out the latest and greatest on their production infrastructure
<ttx> mathiaz: it actually looks better thaan Lucid, but don't tel anyone :)
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<ttx> hggdh: floor is yours
<hggdh> nothing new on the western front, so I pass :-)
<Daviey> \o/
<Daviey> (/me watches the eastern front catch hggdh from behind)
<hggdh> heh
<ttx> hggdh: you'll be leading the server-sq and uec-qa sessions for us, right ?
<ttx> server-qa, I mean
<hggdh> yes, I will. We will need to talk before to fine-tune
<ttx> great !
<ttx> no questions for QA ?
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
<ttx> jjohansen: howdy
<jjohansen> nothing new here
<jjohansen> hi
<jjohansen> :
<jjohansen> hehe
<mathiaz> jjohansen: what will be the kernel version for natty? ;)
<ttx> jjohansen: try to avoid smoser next week, he has a long list of bugs for you
<jjohansen> mathiaz 3.0 of course
<smoser> but i have beer for rewards.
<jjohansen> ttx: right, that is my #1 action item
<jjohansen> thankfully /me isn't tempted :)
<ttx> smoser: kernel bug bounties, a new form of kernel bug triaging
<smoser> pixie sticks ?
 * zul offers jjohansen sleeping pills
<smoser> that would get zul  interested
<jjohansen> dang you found my weakness
<zul> smoser: meh
<jjohansen> ttx: I like the bug bounties, I think jfo would go for it too
<ttx> ok, nothing else for kernel ?
<smoser> that is something to discuss though.. kernel version
<smoser> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-ec2/+bug/662842
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 662842 in linux-ec2 (Ubuntu) "remove linux-ec2 from natty" [Undecided,New]
<jjohansen> yes, it will be discussed.  likely 2.6.37 or 38
<smoser> thats my request to remove linux-ec2, which was unused (officially) in maverick.
<smoser> i could see people crying as it is a xen pv kernel
<jjohansen> yep, its on my rather long todo list, all book marked nice
<smoser> but we've never explicitly supported it.
<jjohansen> right
<smoser> anyone else here have comments to that effect ?
<smoser> if so, send hatemail to john. i dont want any.
<jjohansen> I think if we want a xen kernel, we should bring back a xen kernel not rely on the ec2 kernel
<smoser> or, kindly bring up your concerns here. whichever works better.
<ttx> ok, moving on
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Documentation Team (sommer)
<ttx> sommer is away today
<Daviey> :(
<ttx> will lead a Server documentation session at UDS
<ttx> be there or be square
<ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Ubuntu Community Team (kim0)
<ttx> kim0 is not around...
<ttx> we'll just group-hug him at UDS as a blame.
<ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
<MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
<mathiaz> any major news in the server team?
<ttx> so Daviey was mentioning that mortals can't set the drafters on other's specs
<ttx> if you want to do that, ask the registrant, or me.
<ttx> mathiaz: not for today, I don't think so :)
<Daviey> hmm
<robbiew> or me
<ttx> well, robbiew could mention the interim management
<robbiew> I'm interim manager...done
<robbiew> lol
<ttx> ^ team, that's how ACTIONs get closed.
<Daviey> ttx: not with that bot syntax :)
<ttx> all hail our new fearless leader.
<robbiew> all interested applicants please send email to rick.spencer@canonical.com
<robbiew> not me :D
<robbiew> thank you...thank you...please...hold your applause
<ivoks> hail!
<ttx> robbiew: some previous server team managers said they would offer one beer for every community member that would find them at UDS
<ttx> ivoks: are you coming, btw ?
<hggdh> and the associated QA contact!
<ttx> robbiew: feeling up for the same challenge ?
<ivoks> ttx: no, but i'm counting on you sending me a t-shirt
<ttx> aw
 * ScottK has a topic.
<ttx> ScottK: go ahead
<robbiew> lol
<ScottK> There was some discussion on ubuntu-devel about fixing hostname detection/setting on the call for ideas.
<ScottK> (for UDS)
<ScottK> That didn't get translated into a spec for discussion (that I've found).
<ttx> ScottK: I suspect that wouldn't be server-specific, right
<ttx> ScottK: maybe a foundations spec
<ScottK> ttx: No, but I think we're the primary victims of the current problems.
<ScottK> I don't have the time to lead an effort in this area and was hoping someone else would be willing to grab it and run with it.
<ttx> robbiew: could that be folded into one of the BPs server pushed to foundations this time ?
<ttx> ScottK: I think SpamapS had an interest in this
<ttx> he could push it. After all, he is absent to this meeting
<robbiew> if someone could point me to the discussion thread
<ScottK> Perfect.
<robbiew> I can run with the BP/session
<ttx> ScottK: link?
<ScottK> robbiew: I'll dig it up.
<robbiew> cool
<ttx> ScottK: thanks for bringing it up, I've not been keeping tabs on all the threads
<ttx> anything else ?
<zul> oh...that sucks Tom Bosley died
<Daviey> oh no!
<ttx> sigh
<ttx> [TOPIC] Announce next meeting date and time
<MootBot> New Topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<ttx> Tuesday 2010-11-02 at 1800 UTC - #ubuntu-meeting (10/26 cancelled for UDS)
<ScottK> robbiew and ttx: Discussion starts at https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-October/031785.html
<ttx> since today nobody from the west coast is around, we should discuss another time for the meeting
<robbiew> ScottK: ack
<ttx> (maybe next time)
<ttx> oops
<ttx> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 13:41.
<ttx> thanks everyone
<ScottK> robbiew: Once there's a spec, please have whoever writes it subscribe me.
<robbiew> ScottK: will do
<ScottK> Thanks.
<ivoks> have a good time at UDS
<ttx> ivoks: I will
 * ScottK has carefully avoided mentioning to the children exactly where he's going since they all know what's in Orlando.
<ivoks> what? :)
<czajkowski> loco council meeting starting folks
<popey> o/
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 15:00. The chair is czajkowski.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<czajkowski> Aloha!
<paultag> Howdy!
<itnet7> hey there!
<jacob> heya!
<leogg> hey all!
<czajkowski> [link]  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<MootBot> LINK received:   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<SergioMeneses> hi
<LaFieraMarina> hi
<czajkowski> tonights agenda short and sweet , we'll start with council items first and then move onto teams
<jledbetter_> Howdy :)
<czajkowski> nhandler: are you about ?
<popey> gah
 * popey changes theme on the wiki
<czajkowski> ok 2nd month in a row, removing that item now.
<czajkowski> [topic] UDS-M Blueprint
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS-M Blueprint
<czajkowski> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-loco-council-plans
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-loco-council-plans
<paultag> I swear I've seen that BP before...
<czajkowski> ok council folks we need to DONE all these items, so what do we need to clear up
<czajkowski> popey: some of your items are done really but not marked done.
<paultag> Aye
<czajkowski> itnet7: your item policy and guidelines for the ubuntu loco council  any update on it ?
<paultag> [itnet7]policy and guidelines for the ubuntu loco council :INPROGRESS  <-- can we push this to next cycle? I feel like this is what we have in for standards for the N cycle czajkowski
<paultag> and popey and itnet7 :)
<paultag> and leogg :)
<czajkowski> I don't see why not. I think it's something that we can get stuck into next cycle as we'll have more free time now that re approvals are running a lot smoother..
<itnet7> No update, we'll need to push it. Part of my goal was to begin by creating
<popey> heh
<paultag> I think that's what we had set up for standards as part of operation wiki-dekruft
<paultag> for n cycle
<paultag> not already
<itnet7> a mission statement and building from there
<paultag> +1
<leogg> paultag: +1
<itnet7> but that fell through
<czajkowski> I'd really like to close this BP before UDS-N if at all possible and not have things idling
<paultag> czajkowski, could we have a quick vote on pushing that back?
<itnet7> I can tell you I have no time whatsoever to work on that between work and family for the next week with being able to attend UDS
<czajkowski> itnet7: that;s cool
<itnet7> they already asked me to do a presentation next Wednesday at 1 pm
<popey> something we could work on during uds?
<czajkowski> I think we'll create a new section for that in the UDS-N BP
<popey> gobby?
<popey> find a quiet room, spark up skype and gobby, get it done
<itnet7> They meaning owrk
<itnet7> work
<czajkowski> ok sounds good
<huats> Hello !
<paultag> heyya huats :)
<czajkowski> popey: this for standards or for the remainder items ?
<huats> sorry I am late :)
<czajkowski> huats: tis fine
<popey> up to you
<leogg> huats: o/
<popey> I too am mad busy between now and uds, but we could nail it in a couple of hours
<popey> together
<czajkowski> ok.
<paultag> It's OK popey. We can push it back without too much issue I think
<popey> what do you think czajkowski ?
<popey> I'll make you a curry, come over to my house and we'll work on it :)
<czajkowski> [idea] Sit down one night next week at UDS via skype/gobby and spend 2 hours getting UDS-M bp all done
<MootBot> IDEA received:  Sit down one night next week at UDS via skype/gobby and spend 2 hours getting UDS-M bp all done
<czajkowski> popey: paultag itnet7 huats leogg
<paultag> I'm +1 here
<huats> czajkowski, sounds a good idea
<leogg> +1
<paultag> skype me in and I'll be there
<itnet7> sure
<czajkowski> grand
<huats> it just needs to be in my day hours :)
<czajkowski> ok moving on so
<popey> evening uk time is daytime UDS which makes sense
<popey> early evening :)
<czajkowski> [topic] UDS-N BP
<MootBot> New Topic:  UDS-N BP
<paultag> which is daytime here. M-W-F would be good, if you can :)
<popey> I'm sure we can work times out
<paultag> yup
<czajkowski> [link] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-n-loco-council
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/ubuntutheproject-n-loco-council
<czajkowski> ok so paultag and I've created this to add some ideas to work on for UDS
<czajkowski> as I'd like to see our sessions more structured so we can figure stuff out at UDS
<czajkowski> if you have any thoughts please add them to this
<czajkowski> I think we can put a lot of effort into structure some guidelines for teams
<czajkowski> and in the end make it more black and white what teams could do, and if there are issues what to do
<popey> i dont think it needs that much effort tbh
<popey> just some basics
<czajkowski> team naming I think is something that everyone brings up at some point or another.
<popey> i dont think we should be too rigid
<paultag> +1, team names are a big issue
<czajkowski> if you look at the LD the names are all over the place
<paultag> I think that should be strict for new teams, and a migration plan for old teams
<paultag> since it has the potential to break stuff, we should watch out for old teams
<popey> I am less bothered by the team names.
<paultag> and not be too heavy handed with that
<czajkowski> *nods*
<popey> its messy, yes, but not a catastrophe
<paultag> popey, it's not great :/
<leogg> yep, I agree
<czajkowski> no it's not at all, but it would be nice if they were all the same in some way
<paultag> popey, it's tough to find lp or irc channels without using google
<czajkowski> makes it a lot clearer when searching
<popey> surely people use the loco directory!
<popey> :)
<paultag> popey, and I think that's kinda an issue, I don't mind about the "title" name, I want the URL name to be nice
<popey> I take your point though
<paultag> yeah but that's a website and *effort* :)
<czajkowski> popey: they do and still if you don't know the ISO name you may not find it :)
<czajkowski> anyways
<popey> ok
<czajkowski> if folks have ideas can they add them into the BP
<czajkowski> so we can disscuss it please
<czajkowski> :)
<czajkowski> ok any other comments re council stuff before we move to re approvals ?
<czajkowski> [topic] Nicaragua Team re approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Nicaragua Team re approval
<huats> I'd like to see a session on something I mention already : a kind of geographical meeting for loco (during FOSS events like FOSDEM by instance)
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NicaraguanTeam/ReApproval2010
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NicaraguanTeam/ReApproval2010
<huats> but I'll add that to the bp
<czajkowski> [link] http://www.ubuntu.org.ni/
<MootBot> LINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.org.ni/
<czajkowski> anyone here from the team ??
<popey> love the website
<alucardni> I am
<mmgc84> I am
<czajkowski> what a fantastic wiki application
<czajkowski> WOW
<czajkowski> alucardni: mmgc84 aloha and welcome :)
<czajkowski> thanks for coming
<landero> I am
<leogg> me too ;)
<elopio> I am a fan.
 * fitoria too
<LaFieraMarina> me too
<otoha> me too
<czajkowski> ok, so who'd like to tell us about the team please ?
 * SergioMeneses support the team
<jimbodoors> i am the boss
<hask> me too
<czajkowski> jimbodoors: ok
<alucardni> czajkowski: I've been with the team since it's early days
<czajkowski> alucardni: so maybe you can tell us please
<alucardni> and we've always been very active, as you can see in our wiki :)
<itnet7> Very nice wiki, easy to find all the particulars!
<paultag> Aye, that's for sure
<alucardni> one of the thing a like more about our Team is that we can work very well all the Nicaraguan FOSS community
<paultag> Makes me feel bad about mine :)
<itnet7> Very good job over the years!!
<popey> _love_ the infographics on the wiki page
<paultag> alucardni, mmgc84, What plans do you have for the next 2 years? What do you plan to continue doing? Anything you'd like to share about what's done right?
<huats> I really really like the insertion of graphics / images in the application
<alucardni> paultag: for the next 2 years we spect to contribute a bit more on ubuntu develpment, vÃ­a motu, bugsquad, etc
<czajkowski> alucardni: do you have some sort of mentoring to help get people into motu ?
<alucardni> czajkowski: not yet, we're looking for that
<czajkowski> alucardni: so how do you get people to help in your team?
<alucardni> czajkowski: we have worked with the latin american community, organizing events like the Ubuntu Open Week in Spanish
<czajkowski> yes that has been very well done
<eos87> hi folks
<alucardni> and there are a few spanish speaking motu's (2 i think) that could helps us
<elopio> some people of the bugsquad talk spanish too. I'm sure they'd be glad to help
<czajkowski> alucardni: have you had any problems in the past and how did you deal with them ?
<alucardni> czajkowski: I don't remember having problems... :D
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of the Nicaraguan Team
<czajkowski> +1
<czajkowski> well done folks and keep it up !
<itnet7> +1
<huats> +1
<popey> easy +1
<paultag> +1
<popey> +1
<popey> bah, stupid  bot
<czajkowski> leogg: ??
<leogg> I'm not voting :)
<popey> heh
<leogg> it's my team :)
<paultag> czajkowski, it's his team
<czajkowski> ok
<leogg> hehe
<czajkowski> #endvote
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<paultag> Well done :)
<itnet7> Very good job!
<SergioMeneses> Congratulations Ubuntu-ni
<czajkowski> [agreed] Nicaraguan Team re approved
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Nicaraguan Team re approved
<elopio> Ubuntu Costa Rica loves Ubuntu Nicaragua <3
<elopio> where's the party????
<czajkowski> well done folks
<fitoria> Ù©(à²¥_à²¥)Û¶
<alucardni> thank you very much to all :)
<SergioMeneses> elopio, jajaja
<leogg> elopio: we love you back!
<jimbodoors> elopio: in Nicaragua, leogg's house :)
<JorSol> Nicaraguan Team rules!!!
<SergioMeneses> jimbodoors, far far away
<DexterNica> :D
 * xamanu is dancing
<czajkowski> [topic] Colorado  Re approval
<MootBot> New Topic:  Colorado  Re approval
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColoradoTeam/ApprovalApplication
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColoradoTeam/ApprovalApplication
<czajkowski> this came to us via ML but we're going to process it here
<elopio> good luck Colorado. Bye people. \o_
<czajkowski> I'm pretty happy with this , and it has detailed all of their events and linked to them which I know I had pointed out to them
<czajkowski> paultag: popey itnet7 huats leogg any comments
<popey> nope, it's looking good!
<paultag> None here
<mat1983> :)
<leogg> czajkowski: nope
<czajkowski> ok for the record
<czajkowski> I'll use the bot
<itnet7> Looks good to me
<czajkowski> [vote] Please vote on the Colorado re approval
<MootBot> Please vote on:  Please vote on the Colorado re approval.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<paultag> +1
<czajkowski> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<MootBot> +1 received from paultag. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<itnet7> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<leogg> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from leogg. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<huats> +1 but I'd like to see more pics on the application
<MootBot> +1 received from huats. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 5
<paultag> hahaha huats :)
<czajkowski> popey: ?
<itnet7> Only thing they need to work on it seems is team reports
<itnet7> Unless they just aren't linked
<paultag> popey,
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 5
<popey> :(
<czajkowski> sorry popey
<popey> np
<popey> +1 for the record
<popey> :)
<paultag> :)
<czajkowski> [agreed] Congrats Colorado
<MootBot> AGREED received:  Congrats Colorado
<paultag> Alright, gametime for Ohio >:)
<czajkowski> paultag: update the LP
<paultag> czajkowski, roger doger
<czajkowski> final team
<jacob> \o/
<czajkowski> [topic] Ohio
<MootBot> New Topic:  Ohio
<leogg> congrats coloco!
<paultag> I'm not voting with Ohio, I'm the contact, jacob will be fielding LoCo Council questions. I'll respond ( if I need ), but only as a member of the team, and not as a Council Member, or Contact.
<czajkowski> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/ReApproval
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/ReApproval
<popey> :)
<czajkowski> jacob: welcome
<czajkowski> paultag: gotcha
<paultag> \o/ ohio :)
<jacob> czajkowski: i'm just the messenger, but thanks :)
<rrittenhouse> Yay Ohio :)
<czajkowski> yay photos :)
<paultag> OH!
<rrittenhouse> IO!
<czajkowski> photos make me happy
<jacob> IO!
<jacob> we're famous for relocos, OLF, and buckeyes
<czajkowski> can you tell us about your weekly meetings and what they were meant to be for ?
<paultag> meetings? mailings?
<czajkowski> sorry mailings
<paultag> czajkowski, we set up a weekly newsletter that the contact would write up once a week and send out on friday
<jacob> as far as I'm aware, the mailings were to keep everyone on the same page to let people know what's going on around Ohio. kinda like mini-reports. I believe they were going along for a time but have lapsed recently
<paultag> +1
<huats> great application !
<paultag> czajkowski, the contact of Ohio started slacking a bit
<huats> paultag, this is really nice
<jacob> communication is one thing I think we as a team need to work on
<czajkowski> nice idea
<czajkowski> which brings me to where are your team reports?
<jacob> you would want to ask paultag. :)
<jacob> i haven't been involved with that aspect of the team
<landero> Good look teams :D
<paultag> czajkowski, We had delegated it -- it's not been getting done
<paultag> czajkowski, another N cycle goal for us
<czajkowski> paultag: ok well at least yer being honest
<paultag> We have a few
<czajkowski> my only comment on the application and yer not the only team btw, is that team reports need to more visable
<czajkowski> as they help the team but also help get others interested in what the team is doing
<jacob> righto
<paultag> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/Report <-- we have them for up to march
<paultag> but that's no excuse
<paultag> we're not getting them done :)
<czajkowski> paultag: shudda linked to it on the Application. but that's fine
<czajkowski> so have ye had any problems getting people involved in the team ?
<jacob> here's a quick flyby of things since then: regular reloco meetings (ubuntu hours), global jam, of course Ohio LinuxFest, and things I've probably forgotten
<jacob> people always seem fairly willing to get involved -- significant numbers show up at ubuntu hour meetups around the state
<canthus13> Umm... Business cards. :)
 * canthus13 has been handing them out.
<jacob> canthus13: oh man, the business cards.
<jacob> so we printed out 2000 of them and have been giving them out around the state
<canthus13> Yup. I've given out about 1/4 of my share so far.
<paultag> czajkowski, no issues with people, we all get along great. We meet up very often, so that helps too
<paultag> czajkowski, twice monthly for every major city
<czajkowski> great
<paultag> we have about 8 or so Ubuntu Hours a month in Ohio
<jacob> I haven't checked our website stats recently, but I'd imagine the business cards are helpful in informing people of the LoCo
<itnet7> jacob: what is your favorite part of being involved with the Ohio Team?
<paultag> +1 jacob
<jacob> itnet7: there are a ton of favorite parts, really. I'd say the local meet-ups. we get together much more frequently than the occasional state-wide events
<jacob> my favorite event overall is OLF, but that's only once a year.
<czajkowski> great stuff folks
<czajkowski> [vote] please vote on the re approval of Ohio Team
<MootBot> Please vote on:  please vote on the re approval of Ohio Team.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<czajkowski> +1
<huats> +1
<czajkowski> well done folks
<leogg> +1
<itnet7> +1
<itnet7> jacob: I was supposed to attend that this past year, didn't work out unfortunately, Will try again next year!
<popey> +1
<popey> ;)
<czajkowski> [endvote]
<czajkowski> [agreed] Ohio team re approved
<popey> nice one Ohio!
<leogg> congrats ohio!
<czajkowski> ok that convers all of our agenda items
<itnet7> Congrats!!!
<czajkowski> are there any other comments from teams or people ?
<czajkowski> their applicaion isn't in for another week :)
<czajkowski> it's due in for us to vote soon
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
<czajkowski> whoo thanks folks
<popey> nice one czajkowski !
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-20
<robbiew> \o/
<Pici> \o
<ev> with 7 minutes to spare
<robbiew> ev: lol
<jpds> Everybody paste what they want to say and read the logs later?
<robbiew> screw it now...see ya all in Orlando!!1
<barry> yay!
<ev> lol
<robbiew> Pici: any way to tell who +m the channel?
<ev> view the logs?
<Pici> robbiew: My log says it was czajkowski
<czajkowski> oh I did last night in the meeting
<czajkowski> feck my bad
<Pici> tsk tsk
<robbiew> czajkowski: booo!
<robbiew> lol
<czajkowski> makes it easier for voting
<robbiew> czajkowski: yeah...but makes it hard to have discussions for meetings ;)
 * robbiew spent 10min talking to himself...trying to figure out why no one would respond
<czajkowski> you're sorted now
<czajkowski> moving on nothing to see here. ...
<robbiew> lol
<charlie-tca> pc3200
<charlie-tca> pc5000
<mgariepy> mc
<highvoltage> ! GNU Midnight Commander is already running on this terminal. !
<ubottu> Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
 * mhall119 is here
<highvoltage> and just in time
<mhall119> \o/
<mhall119> not late today
<highvoltage> your NTP is working great this week :)
<highvoltage> Edubuntu meeting time!
<highvoltage> anyone else present?
<mgariepy> i'm here
<highvoltage> as usual, here's the meeting agenda: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Edubuntu/Meetings/Agenda
<highvoltage> and just to keep everyone on their toes, here's the Natty Release Scedule https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NattyReleaseSchedule
<highvoltage> first Alpha is all the way in December!
<highvoltage> Monday we launched Edubuntu WebLive
<highvoltage> it's been going quite well
<highvoltage> http://edubuntu.org/2010-10-18/edubuntu-weblive
<mhall119> where is that running?
 * stgraber waves
<highvoltage> *lots* of people have been tweeting and denting about it
<highvoltage> and we've had close to 2000 people who tried it out
<highvoltage> (will probably hit that mark before the meeting is over)
<highvoltage> mhall119: it's running on stgraber's server in germanny
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> there's a japanese site that translated his blog wrong and said "it's being run by the German stgraber"
<stgraber> ;)
<mhall119> lol
<highvoltage> I also *finally* got around to adding the banner on our website
<alkisg> Hi all
 * Lns stumbles in
<highvoltage> it's been on my todo list since before we launched the website
<highvoltage> http://edubuntu.org/
<highvoltage> hey alkisg and Lns
<Lns> hi highvoltage =)
<highvoltage> they're simple and still need some work, but it's a start :)
<alkisg> Nice banner but the first slide is about 30 pixels low for me, cutting half of the bottom letters and showing some gray on top
<highvoltage> alkisg: ouch! what's your resolution there?
<alkisg> Right now 1920x1080
<mhall119> only one of the images looks like that for me
<alkisg> The other 2 are fine
<highvoltage> mind mailing me a screenshot?
<highvoltage> (both of you?)
<alkisg> http://imagebin.org/119444
<highvoltage> alkisg: ah, that whitespace on the top certainly shouldn't be there, what version of Firefox is that?
<alkisg> Stock lucid
<mhall119> http://imagebin.org/119445
<mhall119> using chromium-browser from the repos
<alkisg> 3.6.10+build1+nobinonly-0ubuntu0.10.04.1
<highvoltage> ah, I think I know what happenned
<mhall119> but they sure look nice
<highvoltage> (one moment)
<bencrisford> *waves*
<highvoltage> alkisg, mhall119: could you perhaps refresh? perhaps ctrl+r?
<highvoltage> hmm, stgraber says he can still reproduce it :-/
<highvoltage> ok I'll look at that after the meeting, that's really quite odd
<mhall119> same result
<alkisg> same, both firefox + chromium-browser
<highvoltage> they both work fine here in firefox + chromium on maverick. just my luck :)
<mhall119> strange that it's just the first
<mhall119> almost makes me think it's a resolution issue or race condition
<stgraber> found the issue
<stgraber> highvoltage is fixing it ;)
<highvoltage> and done
<mhall119> confirmed fixed
<alkisg> Yup
<highvoltage> since we're fixing my broken stuff:
<highvoltage> I did some documentation for LTSP Live and WebLive as well:
<highvoltage> http://edubuntu.org/documentation/ltsp-live
<highvoltage> http://edubuntu.org/documentation/weblive
<highvoltage> might be a good idea to give it a read over and check for mistakes. should be mostly fine though :)
<highvoltage> it's kind of weird not seeing the Edubuntu website in the Ubuntu font on your screenshots :)
<highvoltage> or at least on the one
<highvoltage> I guess we should perhaps make that an embedded font
<highvoltage> stgraber is working on getting natty on weblive
<highvoltage> will probably have something workable soon
<highvoltage> besides that I can't think of anything else to update on :)
<highvoltage> oh, hi bencrisford :)
<mhall119> highvoltage: do you think Canonical would be willing to do an AWS trial for Edubuntu like they did for ubuntu server on 10/10/10?
<highvoltage> mhall119: I don't know, we're talking to Canonical towards the end of next week
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> we'll probably also launch the edubuntu marketplace officially after that
<highvoltage> http://edubuntu.org/marketplace
<mhall119> highvoltage: as of right now, Zareason doesn't officially sell Qimo preloaded
<mhall119> but it should be coming in the nearish future
<highvoltage> I think Zareason currently has Linucity's description
<mhall119> not quite, zareason's has more text
<highvoltage> that doesn't make it right ;)
<mhall119> actually, I think they may have eachother's text
<highvoltage> probably
<mhall119> zareason doesn't customize their installs with extra apps do they?
<highvoltage> it's not a final page yet
<mhall119> ok
<highvoltage> mhall119: it's all just placeholder really, hence the big banner at the top with the big red border around it
<mhall119> yeah, I did notice that ;)
<highvoltage> should we cancel next week's meeting?
<highvoltage> we'll mostly be in Orlando anyway
<mhall119> yeah, I think we'll be talking about Edubuntu enough that week
<highvoltage> indeed, I'm going to cancel next week's one then
<highvoltage> so the next meeting will be 3 November
<highvoltage> Hedgemage said that this meeting time doesn't work for her, so I said she can choose a better time,  but I haven't heard anything back yet
<highvoltage> oh and mgariepy found a new bug in menueditor as well :)
<highvoltage> </random>
<highvoltage> anything else for this meeting? everyone's a bit more quiet than usual today, perhaps the calm before the storm?
<mgariepy> well i didn't, LP#663994
<mgariepy> ;)
<highvoltage> whoah, in terminator I can right click on that and clock on "Open Link"
<highvoltage> that's quite cool
<highvoltage> anything else?
<mhall119> UDS plans?
<highvoltage> we basically have our sessions divided as we discussed on the lists. they still need to be scheduled, that's currently in process
<mhall119> jcastro is going to find an empty slow for a Qimo planning session, hopefully on Friday
<highvoltage> we'll have at least 3 formal sessions, and probably a lot more inbetween discussions and planning
<mhall119> s/slow/slot/
<highvoltage> ok great, I'm going to blog about the Edubuntu sessions when the schedule is finalised (will probably happen on monday morning), so let me know when it is and I'll include that as well
<mhall119> also, for those coming, Monday evening the Ubuntu Florida Team is hosting a pizza party: http://loco.ubuntu.com/events/team/242/detail/
<highvoltage> sounds fun :)
<stgraber> mhall119: I'll be there ;)
<stgraber> mhall119: arriving in Orlando tomorrow at noon
<mhall119> stgraber: oh wow, coming in early
<mhall119> stgraber: also, thanks for the contribution
<stgraber> mhall119: no problem
<mhall119> we aren't asking for outside contributions (otherwise it wouldn't really be 'hosted' by us), but we appreciate them anyway
<stgraber> 2021 accounts created on weblive
<highvoltage> wow, so it did pass 2000 during the meeting :)
<highvoltage> ok, I guess that's it for this meeting!
<highvoltage> thanks to everyone!
<highvoltage> meeting adjourned! *GONG*
<stgraber> see you in Orlando for these of you attending UDS !
<jelmer> barry: Hi!
<jelmer> barry: Is there going to be a UDD stakeholders meeting today?
<barry> jelmer: we should do one, even if it's short.  james_w won't be able to join us
<jelmer> oh :-(
 * ajmitch is around but doesn't really have anything new to talk about
 * jelmer is just glad he has remembered there was a meeting this time.
 * ajmitch thought the next one was next week, actually 
<jelmer> Next week is UDS
<ajmitch> yes, I know you'll be discussing it in depth there
 * jelmer won't actually.. I'll be at the GitTogether next week
 * ajmitch won't be there but may try & participate remotely, if timezones favour it
<barry> we're still 55m away from start
<ajmitch> daylight saving time mucking me up again
<barry> hi udd folks, ready to start?
<barry> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 16:00. The chair is barry.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
 * slangasek waves
<barry> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101020
<barry> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101020
<MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101020
<poolie> hi all
<barry> hi slangasek, poolie, jelmer, ajmitch
<flacoste> hi
<barry> hi flacoste
<barry> james_w sends his apologies
<flacoste> barry: thumper should join
<barry> thumper: hi
<jelmer> hi
<thumper> hi
<barry> the agenda link is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistributedDevelopment/20101020
<barry> [TOPIC] action items
<MootBot> New Topic:  action items
<barry>    * '''poolie to confirm charline to do user studies at UDS-N''' (ongoing)
<barry>  
<poolie> done, i think
<poolie> i see i have a new mail from her
<poolie> very slow, nm
<poolie> let's say that's done
<barry> poolie: thanks, i'm looking forward to that!
<barry>    * '''poolie to organize a foyer poster''' (ongoing)
<barry>  
<poolie> not done yet, will do that today or tomorrow
<barry> cool
<barry>    * '''barry to start some sphinx docs to be well-integrated w/ wiki.u.c''' (ongoing)
<barry>  
<barry> not done
<barry> but...
<barry>    * '''barry to talk to dholbach about making sure udd is well advertised in pkg guide''' (ongoing)
<barry>  
<barry> will do that at uds
<barry>    * '''barry/poolie to write up job announcements; barry posts to python job board, james_w/slangasek posts to debian-jobs, ubuntu-devel''' (ongoing)
<barry>  
<poolie> i know you've sent it to python because we got lots of applicants
<barry> python jobs board post done.  poolie tells me we have some interesting candidates already
<poolie> i haven't seen any from debian so i suspect that wasn't done
<poolie> however we probably have a selection, so no more advertisement is needed atm
<barry> nice
<poolie> incidentally, i'm told that we'll soon have better recruiting management software
<poolie> which should be nice for all involved
<barry> indeed :)
<poolie> (not hraspace :)
<barry> i think we can mark this one done for now though, right?
<poolie> yep
<barry> thanks everyone
<barry> [TOPIC] uds prep
<MootBot> New Topic:  uds prep
<barry> i believe we have 3 sessions scheduled, so it probably makes sense to prep for them.  i plan on at least looking at that over the next two days
<slangasek> poolie: do you prefer that I not post it to debian-jobs then, given the tardiness?
<poolie> slangasek: yes, better not too
<slangasek> ok
<poolie> feel free to post other job ads though :)
<barry> probably the most work will be for the user session.  i'll have to ping james_w about that tomorrow so we're on the same page.
<barry> does anybody have any thoughts about prepping for the sessions?
 * ScottK reminds barry he's promised to sit down with me and watch my diff/patch method for porting clamav updates to all releases and see if UDD can help.
<barry> ScottK: right, thanks.  we're also going to sit down with mvo for his feedback
<barry> there is a "user feedback session" that this will probably be appropriate for, and i'll add action items to the blueprint for that
<barry> [ACTION] barry to add ScottK and mvo feedback to uds session
<MootBot> ACTION received:  barry to add ScottK and mvo feedback to uds session
<ajmitch> you have a few usecases listed for the user feedback session?
<barry> ajmitch: i was going to work off of the udd wiki page use cases
<ScottK> Please don't distract ajmitch from fixing boost. ;-)
<barry> one thing i'd really like to address is getting more reviews and sponsor landings from merge proposals
<poolie> i guess all interested parties need to to subscribe to the sessions
<ajmitch> ScottK: I can sense your impatience :)
<poolie> as in, how to get more reviews?
<ScottK> Me?  Impatient?
<barry> poolie: well, right now mp's seem to be a black hole.  i don't think sponsors are tuned to looking at mps yet
<poolie> :/ ok, that's a good thing to think about
<barry> and since i can't sponsor, it's unclear in my mind what *should* be the workflow
<thumper> barry: when talking to people about this, can you try to gather work-flow information?
<thumper> barry: I'm keen to know how people do use MPs, and how they'd like to use them
<ajmitch> there are a few different workflows depending on what's being sponsored
<slangasek> solve the "bzr branches are too expensive to use for casual sponsoring, compared with downloading packages from y local mirror" problem?
<barry> thumper: sure.  aren't you keen on hooking that up to build-from-branch? :)
<slangasek> +m
<poolie> so popping up one meta-level, we want
<poolie> - to help people understand how to use what is there
<thumper> barry: I'm not sure I understand what you are suggesting
<poolie> - to make sure we have a good triaged list of what's inadequate - either technically failing, or failing as process
<poolie> - to recruit some people willing to try our solutions to the previous point
<poolie> heh, so as far as actions:
<poolie> - do we need more sessions?
<barry> right now, i think "no"
<poolie> - i propose we start a list thread to find problems and then carry that on at UDS
<poolie> - if we want to go into them in detail i suggest we continue after the 'steering committee' bit of the meeting is over
<poolie> therefore, done?
<barry> poolie: i like your list. for me it really comes down to having a complete, end-to-end story for devs and sponsors
<barry> poolie: thanks.  would you like to kick off that thread?
<poolie> i will
<barry> thanks!
<barry> [ACTION] poolie to start list thread to find problems which can be carried on at UDS
<MootBot> ACTION received:  poolie to start list thread to find problems which can be carried on at UDS
<barry> any other uds related comments?
<poolie> no
<barry> [TOPIC] top bug
<MootBot> New Topic:  top bug
<barry> bug 295274
<poolie> nice agenda item!
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 295274 in bzr-builddeb "merge-upstream shouldn't require --version when debian/watch is present" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/295274
<barry> james_w: and i are going to sprint on that at uds
<poolie> that would rock
<poolie> current top udd bugs for us: andrew is working on bug 655307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 655307 in QBzr "using odt2txt to diff OOo documents" [Wishlist,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/655307
<barry> indeed, both because i think it will eliminate a pain point (one which i witnessed first hand yesterday) and because it'll help get me acquainted with the code
<poolie> or not
<poolie> bug 653307
<slangasek> bug 603395
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 653307 in Ubuntu Distributed Development "Import fails with missing referenced chk root keys" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/653307
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 603395 in Bazaar "bzr commit in a heavyweight checkout does not propagate new tags" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/603395
<poolie> heaven help us when we get to 7 or 8 digit bugs
<poolie> slangasek: that's your nomination, 603395?
<barry> we'll have to start tinyurl'ing them
<poolie> barry: you know about pad.lv, right?
<poolie> i guess it could fold them into base64 but .. shudder
<slangasek> poolie: it's the one that breaks every UDD merge I do unless I remember it beforehand; maybe I'm the only one running into it?
<barry> poolie: yeah, i was using the generic :)
<slangasek> rather, it breaks the branches /after/ I've done a merge
<lifeless> barry: hi
<barry> lifeless: hi
<lifeless> barry: I want you after this meeting :)
<poolie> slangasek: i'll bump it up
<ajmitch> most people probably use bzr branch instead of checkout?
<barry> slangasek: i'll add it to "top bugs".  i haven't hit it because i always branch
<barry> lifeless: ooooohhhh :)
<slangasek> barry: am I wrong in thinking co is supposed to be cheaper than branch? maybe I should just be larting myself
<poolie> a heavy checkout won't be much cheaper
<poolie> its main effect is that commits synchronously update the master branch
<poolie> a light checkout will be cheap to set up, but it has no local history  cache
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> so maybe it's just a bad habit of mine; but it has taken its toll on a number of the UDD branches to date
<barry> there is another problem that i always run into, but i haven't figured it out well enough to submit a bug report on.  it seems i always get weird merges in debian/changelog
<slangasek> that's the new dpkg-mergechangelogs, I think
<poolie> slangasek: it should be reasonably easy
<barry> slangasek: hmm, it *seems* like when i merge a branch, i don't get conflicts, but i get some maintainer lines just getting overwritten and other changelog sections moved way down in the file.
<poolie> barry: i think bzr builddeb has a hook that tries a smart merge of debian/changelog
<barry> but as i said, i need to find a good reproducible test case and understand what's happening better.  i'm usually in yak shaving mode at that point so haven't stepped back to figure out what's going on
<poolie> it may not be as smart as it thinks
<slangasek> barry: bzr-bd calls dpkg-mergechangelogs, which is good, but doesn't mind when it rewrites the entire history of the changelog prior to the base revision, which is bad :)
<barry> slangasek: ;)
<barry> poolie: gotcha
<barry> next time it happens, i'll at least get a bug reported
 * ajmitch used to have the entire changelog appearing as a conflict, so it's improved :)
<barry> any other top bugs that are buggin' ya?
<slangasek> so I think this is just a bug in bzr-bd needing to be smarter about which changelog entries it passes to dpkg-mergechangelogs for merging
<poolie> on our side, the speedup to lp-serve, which should cut ~2 seconds off ssh connection time, is still winding its way through the lp development meatgrinder
<slangasek> ajmitch: you'd think it's an improvement, until you notice in the conflict-free diff that it's reordered all your history back to 1998 :)
<barry> slangasek: gotcha, thanks, that's definitely helpful
<poolie> it may be live next week
<barry> poolie: nice
<poolie> our next devops-type change after that is to get the package-importer moved into being a LOSA-run and monitored service
<poolie> i've seen people complaining about some particular package imports failing
<poolie> which is actually a great sign that they care
<poolie> so i hope we will find some time to work on that
<barry> yep.  do you think it's possible to drive import failures to zero?
<ajmitch> barry: not really a bug, but is working with a package that uses a patch system going to be talked about at UDS?
<poolie> one question: we're getting many questions from non-ubuntu bzr users about memory usage and large file handling
<poolie> does anyone notice this as an issue in udd?
<barry> ajmitch: we can.  it's definitely one on my list
<slangasek> "large file handling" - er, in the working tree or in the repository?
<poolie> both
<slangasek> to me "large file" means "> 2GB", I've yet to run into such a file in UDD
 * barry has not
<poolie> the typical user complaint is "i'm doing game development and i have this multi-GB binary artwork asset"
<slangasek> ah, heh
<slangasek> ask the ubuntu-docs folks :)
<poolie> k
<poolie> i'm guessing the top performance thing for UDD would be network latency for branch/checkout/push?
<slangasek> I think so
 * barry too
<ajmitch> those of us in NZ would readily agree :P
<thumper> :)
<poolie> any more top bug nominations?
<barry> tbh, i'm not really affected by it ;)
<barry> 5
<barry> 4
<barry> 3
<barry> 2
<barry> 1
<slangasek> no, not that one
<barry> [TOPIC] aob
<MootBot> New Topic:  aob
<poolie> i have one
<jam> poolie: would that include wanting stacked branches/history horizons?
<slangasek> bug 1 already gets enough attention ;)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1 in Ubuntu "Microsoft has a majority market share" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1
<barry> slangasek: :)
<poolie> jam, i think at the moment plain roundtrips would be an easier place to start
<poolie> eg the get_parent_map calls
<poolie> but anything, really
<jam> poolie: (I'm wondering if this is initial checkout, or ongoing updates)
<poolie> so i'm applying for an Ubuntu developer membership
<poolie> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MartinPool/DeveloperApplication
<barry> oh, looms push/pull!
<ajmitch> what's the state of working with debian packaging branches that are in git?
<poolie> i should have done it ages ago, but here it is now
<poolie> if people would like to endorse me i'd appreciate it
<poolie> and thanks to barry for already doing so
<barry> np
<barry> i'm confident you'll get ppu
<slangasek> I maintain that having a documented, promulgated solution for UDD branch mirroring, including partial mirrors, is a key to making the workflow viable; lots of devs have local mirrors, and even with decent bandwidth waiting for a fresh download is too much downtime
<slangasek> local package mirrors, that is
<jelmer> ajmitch: They can be used, but their history is diverged from the history of the package imports.
<poolie> i think you're right
<slangasek> poolie: I think it's great that you're applying for dev membership, but I'm crap at writing endorsements for these things so hopefully your application doesn't hinge on me doing so
<ajmitch> I'd agree there, being reliant on getting branches from 1 location at the moment is just a bit painful
<poolie> slangasek: mind if i paste that?
<slangasek> poolie: uh... I don't mind :)
<poolie> i think you've even sometimes handled my small patches to debian years ago
<barry> btw, jelmer perhaps: do you know, is there a lag between package upload and source package branch update? if so, what's the time frame?
<slangasek> I can't recall but frankly am happy to assume that's the case :)
<poolie> i wonder if we could have a eagerly caching proxy for connections to lp or something...
<poolie> there may be something cheap we can do
<poolie> slangasek: do you recall if there's a bug for mirroring?
<jelmer> barry: Sorry, I don't know how often the package importer runs.
<barry> k, np
<slangasek> poolie: I haven't opened one, shall I do so?
<poolie> i'll have a look, open one, and subscribe you
<slangasek> ok, thanks
<barry> anything else from the peanut gallery?
<barry> in that case...
<barry> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:46.
<slangasek> cheers
<barry> thanks everybody and hope to see you at uds
 * ajmitch had some rants/other info about branch mirror that should be put somewhere
<jam> see y'all next week
<slangasek> ajmitch: would be great if you would post those, it might be just the right catalyst for someone to pick up this topic and run with it
<ajmitch> slangasek: just found it, was a very brief irc conversation with lifeless awhile ago
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-21
<KombuchaKip> If someone can confirm, we're having a meeting tomorrow. Among the agenda, my application for membership. I am expected to be here when the meeting commences at 1700 PST (21 of Oct).
<godbyk> Hey, thorwil. Do you know if we're meeting this week?
<thorwil> godbyk: theoretically it happens every week. practically i never know in advance ;)
<godbyk> thorwil: Yeah, that's how it goes here, too.
<thorwil> godbyk: since uds is at the door, i wonder if mpt said something ... he's not online
<godbyk> thorwil: I'm not sure. I was under the impression last week that we'd have a regular meeting today.
<thorwil> hi JanC
<godbyk> (Seeing as how I was assigned homework and all.)
<thorwil> vish
<aday> hi all...
<godbyk> Hey, aday
<aday> anything on the agenda?
<thorwil> so iva-not-highlighting-vanka said:  "we are in Orlando. I think he thinks the meeting is at 9am our time which is in an hour", referring to mpt
<godbyk> aday: Good question. I just emailed the ayatana-ux list with the usability testing script introduction thing I was tasked with writing.
<godbyk> thorwil: aha. well, he's off by an hour. :-)
<thorwil> have you guys seen http://thorwil.wordpress.com/2010/10/18/design-center/ ?
<aday> godbyk: ah cool - i'll look at that. where is it going to live when it's done?
<thorwil> doctormo took matters in his hands
<godbyk> aday: Good question.
<thorwil> https://code.launchpad.net/~doctormo/erato/trunk
<thorwil> https://launchpad.net/erato
<thorwil> hi andreasn
<aday> godbyk: i'd like to be able to at least link to it from the gnome usability pages
<godbyk> thorwil: Do you distinguish between artwork and, say, UI mockups?
<thorwil> andreasn: i'd prioritize eating, as mpt is not there (perhaps off by 1 hour in orlando)
<godbyk> aday: There's a copy in my public dropbox you can link to if you like: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5067756/usability-testing-script.pdf
<andreasn> so meet back in one hour?
<thorwil> godbyk: yes and no. it's all design assets
<aday> andreasn: can do
<andreasn> cool
<andreasn> later!
<godbyk> andreasn: see ya
<godbyk> thorwil: I see.
<aday> thorwil: why not use/contribute to design hub? seems like they're trying to do the same thing, or am i missing something?
<godbyk> brb
<thorwil> godbyk: everyone else in the team seems to see the needs of ubuntu-artwork first, but there have been no objections to my proposal to make it neutral
<aday> yes, anyway, back in a bit
<thorwil> aday: yes to some degree. but mairin's mockups already include details i don't agree on. aside of that, i can't steer the project on that level, now doctormo started development of a minimalistic first implementation and got others in
<thorwil> arg
<godbyk> heh. don't ya hate that? :)
<godbyk> What aspects of Mairin's designs do you disagree with?
<thorwil> godbyk: mainly the simple up/down voting
<godbyk> Hey, wers-android.
<thorwil> lol
<godbyk> <sigh>
<godbyk> thorwil: Do you have another voting scheme in mind?  Would up/down voting that requires comments/constructive criticism/critiques be better?  Or do you not want voting at all?
<godbyk> wers?
<wers> wassup?
<wers> godbyk, hello
<godbyk> hey, there you are. :)
<wers> hehe
<wers> so has the meeting started?
<godbyk> wers: yes and no. we think mpt may arrive in half an hour or so, but it's unclear.
<wers> ooh ok
<godbyk> a couple others were hear, but they're eating now.
<thorwil> godbyk: i've been thinking about a "how well does this asset meet the briefing?"
<godbyk> so thorwil and I are just shooting the breeze.
<wers> lemme have quick dinner :D
<godbyk> wers: lol. no problem.
<wers> I'm online on my mobile anyway :D
<godbyk> thorwil: I like that. Instead of a simple up/down vote, you could have a few parameters with Lickert scales or something.
<wers> i'd like to discuss the UX survey we (GNOME.Asia) are going to conduct. we could do persona research there and some other stuff
<godbyk> cool
<aday> hi all, anything happening?
<SergioMeneses> aday, hi
<SergioMeneses> what's up?
<godbyk> aday: No activity for quite a while.
<thorwil> aday: refering to earlier: yes to some degree. but mairin's mockups already include details i don't agree on. aside of that, i can't steer the project on that level, now doctormo started development of a minimalistic first implementation and got others in
<thorwil> that was to: "why not use/contribute to design hub? seems like they're trying to do the same thing, or am i missing something?"
<aday> thorwil: fair enough. seems like a shame (mainly cos i'd like to see design hub get moving again ;) )
<thorwil> aday: it's also that we have 3 people all in favor of django, 2 of them not interested in any other option. designhub is ruby
<thorwil> on rails, of course
<aday> i figured it might be something like that *sigh*
<thorwil> aday: mizmo told me designhub is blocked on design/mockup issues. so a designer could step in , perhaps
<aday> thorwil: oh really? a designers tool blocked because of design issues... we're all doomed
<thorwil> aday: nah, missing design because of mizmo's lack of time
<aday> thorwil: sounds about right
<vish> aday Â¦ they did try to do it the designhub way.. :) , but django was the main factor and none were familiar with ruby â¦
<vish> aday Â¦ so its better to get it done so how right? ;)
<vish> s/so/some
<aday> vish: sure! there were some pretty clear requirements behind design hub which might not tally with what's being aimed for with this new site
<aday> i want my design site!
<vish> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2010-10-22
<KombuchaKip> If someone can confirm, we're having a meeting today in about an hour. Among the agenda, applications for membership.
<kim0> I am waiting for that
<KombuchaKip> kim0: Great. Then I'm probably waiting for the right time.
<kim0> yeah I'd hope so :)
<nhandler> Yes. I can confirm the Americas RMB meeting will be in a little under 1 hour.
<kim0> nhandler: thanks
<KombuchaKip> nhandler: Thank you.
<KombuchaKip> nhandler: I've set an alarm so that I won't forget.
<kim0> yum --disablerepo='epel' install vlc
<kim0> nvm
 * KombuchaKip is very much enjoying the soundtrack to The Fountain by Kronos Quartet. Every time he sees their name on a soundtrack, he's confident it will be stellar.
 * greg-g waves
 * KombuchaKip waves
<kim0> o/
<nhandler> #startmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting started at 19:00. The chair is nhandler.
<MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
<nhandler> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for Thursday, October 21, 2010. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
 * KombuchaKip clicks his heals together.
<nhandler> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<nhandler> The format for the meeting is as follows:
<nhandler> We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<nhandler> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<nhandler> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<nhandler> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<nhandler> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<nhandler> It doesn't look like matthewwrohaly is around. So we'll start with kim0
<nhandler> [TOPIC] kim0
<MootBot> New Topic:  kim0
<kim0> Hello everyone
<nhandler> Hi kim0. Care to introduce yourself?
<kim0> This is Ahmed Kamal. I'm a Canonical employee working on Ubuntu. I work as the Ubuntu cloud community liaison
<kim0> I've been a Linux user since 1999
<kim0> professionally I've worked a systems engineer
<kim0> more on the server side, and more recently on the cloud side
<kim0> Here's my page with more details
<kim0> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AhmedKamal
<dinda> and I was reading some of the documentation you did for UEC yesterday - awesome work
<greg-g> kim0: how long have you been the cloud liaison?
 * nigelb cheers for kim0 
<kim0> greg-g: 4 months
<nhandler> kim0: I must say, you have been doing some excellent work since taking on that job, but prior to that, I don't recall really seeing you around much. Were you active in the Ubuntu community before then?
<kim0> dinda: Thank you!
<greg-g> kim0: cool, I couldn't rememer when I saw that announcement that you were on board, welcome to the team!
<kim0> nhandler: actually not, I was on the fedora community .. did some volunteer work there
<kim0> hope that doesn't hurt :)
<beuno> linux experience!  what more can we ask for?
<kim0> greg-g: thanks
<kim0> I've written a yum delta updates plugin for fedora
<kim0> and admin'ed their servers for about a year
<greg-g> kim0: nice, even though I never really was a fedora user, I respect and thank you for those contributions
<dinda> kim0: what drew you to the Ubuntu community?
<kim0> dinda: well, it's very welcoming indeed ... and there is a difference between the fedora and the ubuntu communities
<kim0> the structure of the community, and how helpful everyone is
<beuno> kim0, tell us about your involvement in the LoCo
<kim0> Ok
<kim0> I had been promoting Foss in general in Egypt (my country)
<kim0> for about a few years now
<kim0> as mentioned previously ..
<kim0> I was not specifically focusing on Ubuntu .. however
<kim0> I had given university presentations introducing and supporting
<kim0> different foss systems like Fedora/Ubuntu/OpenSolaris
<kim0> I started the local opensolaris user group since there was none
<greg-g> nice, how's that going? ;)
<kim0> gave away T shirts and CDs for fedora and Ubuntu
<kim0> greg-g: well .. opensolaris is pretty much dead now globally :)
<kim0> the local group was not too active
<kim0> of course today, I'm more focused on ubuntu
<kim0> I've been attending the loco meetings
<nhandler> Very nice kim0
 * KombuchaKip waves to rrnwexec
<greg-g> kim0: hehe
<kim0> I've taught professional linux courses as well
<kim0> for a couple of years
<kim0> I saw that .. as a way of giviing back
<kim0> especially spreading foss culture
<kim0> not just how to get things done
 * kim0 stops babbling
<dinda> kim0:  why did you decide to go for membership now?
<beuno> kim0, so, what's in the future for Ubuntu?
<kim0> taking questions FIFO :)
<kim0> dinda: As a community liaison ..
<beuno> smart man
<kim0> I would very much like to "connect"
<kim0> thus .. I would very much like to get on planet ubuntu asap
<kim0> that is why I am applying for the membership as soon as I could
<kim0> it's actually 2am for me now ;)
<dinda> fair enough
<kim0> beuno: As for the future
<dinda> I know!  I can't believe you're up so late - I applaud your motivation
<kim0> I have certain things in mind
<kim0> I would like to launch the Ubuntu cloud portal
<kim0> it is 99% complete now .. awaiting deployment
<kim0> it aims to attract and engage new community members interested in contributing to cloud and server
<kim0> I also plan to create and launch a "screencast" library
<greg-g> awesome, I look forward to it
<kim0> demo'ing how to get things done in the cloud context
<greg-g> kim0: different from screencasts.ubuntu.com ?
<kim0> as well as improve technical documentation around cloud deployments and different options
<dinda> focused on cloud topics I imagine
<kim0> greg-g: not really .. I meant to actually create them
<kim0> yes
<kim0> they will probably live there as well as maybe on youtube
<dinda> kim0: I can give you some tips on creating those, as can Popey
<greg-g> kim0: ah right, cool, I like the idea of more screencasts
<kim0> dinda: thank you
<kim0> I also plan to give IRC sessions
<kim0> cloud tutorials
<kim0> like I just did on uow
<kim0> the longer term goal being .. to attract and grow the server/cloud community
<kim0> wish me luck :)
<nhandler> Good luck kim0 :)
 * paultag cheers for kim0 
<paultag> kim0, you rock! :)
<kim0> thanks folks
<nhandler> I think we are ready to vote
<nhandler> [VOTE] kim0 for Ubuntu Membership
<MootBot> Please vote on:  kim0 for Ubuntu Membership.
<MootBot> Public votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot
<MootBot> E.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting
<nhandler> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from nhandler. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 1
<greg-g> +1
<maco> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from greg-g. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 2
<MootBot> +1 received from maco. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 3
<KombuchaKip> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from KombuchaKip. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 4
<nhandler> KombuchaKip: The vote is only for members of the RMB
 * KombuchaKip cowers his head in shame.
<kim0> nah thanks
<beuno> +0  (not because I'm not totally in favor, but because i don't want to bias membership towards canonical employees)
<MootBot> Abstention received from beuno. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 4
<KombuchaKip> np
<dinda> +1
<MootBot> +1 received from dinda. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 5
<nhandler> #endvote
<nhandler> [ENDVOTE]
<MootBot> Final result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 5
<greg-g> awesome, welcome to the team, officially, kim0 !
<paultag> congrats kim0! :)
<nhandler> Congratulations kim0
<nigelb> congrats kim0 :)
<kim0> Yaay :)
<Pendulum> congrats kim0!
<kim0> Thanks folks .. Thanks a million
<dinda> congrats kim0!
<greg-g> kim0: now go sleep!
<kim0> indeed :)
<kim0> Thank you
<nhandler> [TOPIC] KombuchaKip
<MootBot> New Topic:  KombuchaKip
 * KombuchaKip opens a bottle of kombucha and tosses it over for kim0
<nhandler> KombuchaKip: Care to tell us a bit about yourself?
<KombuchaKip> nhandler: Sure.
<KombuchaKip> Hey channel. My name's Kip Warner. I'm a 27 year old Canadian software engineer. I am currently the fellow behind the Avaneya (www.avaneya.com) project, an attempt to create a free, commercial game for Ubuntu and other GNU variants. I got tired of always feeling like a second class citizen because I use GNU/Linux whenever I desired a product or service, so I thought constructively about what I could do about this, hence the pr
<nhandler> KombuchaKip: Looks like you got cut off after "hence the p"
<KombuchaKip> Woops
<KombuchaKip> ..hence the project. I've been a GNU/Linux user since the late 90s, like kim0. I've been active in the free software community for a number of years in a variety of capacities from bug fixes, reports, creating new software, and bringing in new users to the community. I enjoy the Vancouver LoCo and I've presented the game concept a couple times at the meetings now were it was well received. My wiki page is here https://wiki.ubu
<KombuchaKip> nhandler: Did that get trimmed as well?
<nhandler> KombuchaKip: Cut off again "My wiki page is here https://wiki.ub"
<KombuchaKip> My wiki page is here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KipWarner I use to teach college programming and I had a strong emphasis and incorporated essays on free software into my curriculum. All of my students were on Ubuntu by choice before the course was over.
<KombuchaKip> I thought about Ubuntu Membership a few days ago and asked Shuttleworth liked the project and said to go through this process.
<KombuchaKip> nhandler: Sorry about that.
<nhandler> KombuchaKip: How active are you with the Vancouver LoCo team?
<greg-g> awesome about getting your students excited about FLOSS and choosing Ubuntu
<KombuchaKip> Our head of our local Vancouver LoCo team is here, rrnwexec. He might be able to add something. I am not nearly as involved as he is, but I go to the meetings I can make and sometimes I contribute by putting on presentations.
<KombuchaKip> A number of people from our LoCo have become involved in the project as well and I try to involve the local community as much as possible.
<KombuchaKip> Here is a testimonial from Randall, head of our LoCo and also an Ubuntu Member: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KipWarner/testimonials
<rrnwexec> i will confirm that Kip is active in our meetings as a presenter of game development in Ubuntu. he's also active on our Ideas forums where we share ideas about upcoming events and strategies to promote FLOSS in Vancouver.
<KombuchaKip> I try to spread the propaganda and indoctrinate everyone by showing them the errors in their proprietary ways.
<dinda> KombuchaKip: what was the context of you asking sabdfl if he liked your project?  were you seeking to promote it be getting his endorsement?
<KombuchaKip> I'm also trying to get attention drawn to a MIPSel port for Ubuntu. Avaneya will have a mipsel port and I am working in partnership with Lemote to bring the game to their free hardware.
<maco> ubuntu has been shedding little-used architectures recently. what makes you think adding MIPSel would be a good idea?
<KombuchaKip> dinda: Not trying to get his endorsement. That would be appreciated, but it isn't necessary. I just was asking him about the process for membership, but realized just after I hit the send button that the information was on the wiki I had missed. I had sent him a link to the game site purely for his curiousity.
<greg-g> KombuchaKip: has your LoCo team put on any event recently that you have helped plan/execute?
<KombuchaKip> maco: I believe mips is the way of the future. It is far less patent encumbered than ARM, uses much less power than i386 / amd64, and most of the world is poor and can only afford cheaper hardware like MIPS. It also has the backing of the government of China financing its development.
<maco> KombuchaKip: i havent seen any mention of MIPSel on the ubuntu-devel mailing list, so how have you been trying to draw attention to it?
<KombuchaKip> greg-g: Yes. I can't remember the exact date, but maybe rrnwexec remembers. It was in the summer where I put on a presentation on Avaneya.
<rrnwexec> August 2010, or September Main Event. Kip was a presenter
<greg-g> ah, ok
<KombuchaKip> maco: By creating the game that runs on MIPSel. I prefer to be active and produce things. I also have some sample Lemote hardware from a kind vendor who would like to see the game preloaded on it when they ship it. They are currently running a variant of Ubuntu (gNewSense).
<rrnwexec> he gave the group an overview of tools and techniques for game development on Ubuntu, in the context of his project
<maco> KombuchaKip:  thats enough to get it added to debian's repos, but simple existence of software for mips isnt going to magically add mips support to ubuntu. i think you need to learn how decisions are made in the ubuntu developer community
<nhandler> KombuchaKip: Your Avaneya project definitely sounds interesting. However, we would like to encourage you to try and contribute more to Ubuntu itself and the Ubuntu community in a more direct way and maybe contribute more to the loco and help them organize some events. Once you start doing that, please come back and apply again.
<KombuchaKip> maco: I understand its in the Debian repository. Debian is not Ubuntu and the two projects do not see eye to eye. We know that Ubuntu already mostly runs on mipsel, since gNewSense establishes that. It's important to see Ubuntu itself on MIPSel simply because Ubuntu has an ethos that is different to Debian. Moreover, there are tens of millions of users on Ubuntu worldwide and having it available on MIPS gives them additional f
<maco> you got cut off. my point that the way to get a mipsel port is to *actually suggest it* still stands, though
<KombuchaKip> maco: I have. You can see it on Launchpad. Hang on.
<maco> next week is the Ubuntu Developer Summit. please participate remotely and take it as an opportunity to engage with us :)
<greg-g> I like the project as well, I think a little more activity around the LoCo (planning and/or executing events) would help.
<KombuchaKip> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/605694
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 605694 in Ubuntu "ubuntu for mipsel" [Undecided,New]
<KombuchaKip> Part of bringing people to Ubuntu is to give them good reasons to. By creating media and software that is available to such a group with greater precedence than other platforms is one way of doing it.
<maco> there are thousands of bugs... and not a lot of people reading them. you /really/ need to use the ubuntu-devel mailing list
<greg-g> KombuchaKip: unfortunately, not too many developers look at new/unconfirmed bugs against the generic "ubuntu" project (instead of a specific package)
<KombuchaKip> maco: I am not an official Ubuntu developer. I am not opposed to that, it's just I am more focused on writing software FOR Ubuntu.
<maco> greg-g: well theres a reason for that :P
<greg-g> as maco said, the ubuntu-devel list is a pretty good way to get discussion around an idea like this going, much better than bugs
<maco> KombuchaKip: i know you're not an ubuntu dev, else you'd already be a member
<KombuchaKip> In any case, the MIPSel thing is small and not really relevant. It's just one of many things.
<greg-g> maco: yep, the same reason i don't, time/quality
<greg-g> maco: :)
<maco> KombuchaKip: however the way to talk directly to the devs is the mailing list
<KombuchaKip> maco: Agreed.
<maco> greg-g: well, and we need to focus on bugs that are already triaged and let the triagers handle getting them to that state. time we spend triaging is time not spent coding
<greg-g> KombuchaKip: again, I really want to encourage you to do a little more work in the LoCo or similar and come back for approval, you are on a great course for doing great things in the community, just a little more time might help
<greg-g> maco: yeah, that too :)
<KombuchaKip> I think Shuttleworth might have thought the Avaneya approach was useful, but I don't know. I'll copy his email here and you can all decide.
<maco> and stretch your horizons a bit, maybe? you can do things with the loco that are general-ubuntu, not just focused on your projects too
<KombuchaKip> maco: It's not a question of being disinterested or narrow minded, it's just this project is a full time job for me.
<KombuchaKip> Hi Kip
<KombuchaKip> Your project sounds great. The path to membership is outlined at
<KombuchaKip> wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership, iirc. I'm sure you'll make it smoothly!
<KombuchaKip> Mark
<KombuchaKip> But perhaps he might agree with you that I need to do more work in the LoCo.
<nhandler> Mathieu Rohaly (matthewrohaly) or Vikram Dhillon (dhillonv10), are either of you guys around?
<greg-g> KombuchaKip: I hope you aren't taking this as a negative thing, we really do appreciate your involvement thus far, we just think (though i can't speak for everyone on the board) that a bit more direct invovlement aside from your game project might be good.
<KombuchaKip> greg-g: Fair enough, although I have been contributing for years in other ways outside the LoCo from within industry and socially.
<greg-g> KombuchaKip: I really do look forward to more from the game and your expertise, and would LOVE to see you come back to our next meeting
<greg-g> KombuchaKip: like speaking with your students? or what else?
<KombuchaKip> greg-g: Yes, absolutely. I got the whole class on it.
<KombuchaKip> greg-g: Despite IT preventing the students from installing it on the machines by preventing CD boot, they just installed it on USB keys and booted off of that.
<greg-g> :) nice
<nhandler> Since neither Mathieu or Vikram appear to be around, I would like to thank everyone for coming tonight. The next meeting will be on Thursday, November 18, 2010 at 23:59 UTC
<KombuchaKip> greg-g: All of our lectures, code, and so on were done under Ubuntu with regular reference to this or that phenomena in the community.
<greg-g> KombuchaKip: yeah, that is a great contribution, and I really do think that if you continue you trajectory in the LoCo and you come back in a month or two, you'll have a great chance of approval
<nhandler> #endmeeting
<MootBot> Meeting finished at 19:49.
<KombuchaKip> greg-g: Fair enough. I'll see what I can do.
<greg-g> KombuchaKip: I'm sure you'll do great.
<KombuchaKip> Peace out.
<greg-g> KombuchaKip: take care
<greg-g> thanks everyone for coming tonight!
<KombuchaKip> greg-g: Likewise. Bye.
 * greg-g waves
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-17
<ara> hello all!
<brendand> hi ara
<roadmr> hey!
<ara> Ok, let's get started!
<ara> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 17 15:02:07 2011 UTC.  The chair is ara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<ara> Agenda:
<ara> Some numbers
<ara> What's UF site
<ara> "Report a problem" and unrelated reports (roadmr)
<ara> AOB
<ara> #topic Some numbers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Some numbers
<ara> I just wanted to give some numbers related to the first few days of Ubuntu Friendly:
<ara>  * More than 350 submissions
<ara>  * More than 100 submissions with more than 3 stars
<ara>  * 4 submissions with 5 stars
<ara>  * 7 models with more than 1 rater
<ara> I think this is a great achievement for the first week of Ubuntu Friendly Beta. Congratulations to all!
<ara> ..
<ara> nobody comments on those? no clapping? no cheering?
<ara> c'mon!
<roadmr> \o/
<ara> *\o/*
<brendand> \o/
<roadmr> it's quite impressive :) and I'm glad to see 5-star models, time and more submissions will tell if these are like the "gold standard"
<roadmr> ..
<brendand> especially good to see we're getting multiple people testing the same system
<ara> yes, I think we will need a lot more submissions until we start seeing more models with more than 1 rater
<ara> but it is good that we are seeing some :)
<ara> #topic What's UF site page
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: What's UF site page
<ara> We have seen that there are a lot of people asking about the scoring system. We think that at friendly.ubuntu.com there should be a general page explaining what the programme is about and how it works.
<ara> We have opened this bug for it:
<ara>    https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-friendly/+bug/876314
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 876314 in Ubuntu Friendly "We need a static page explaining a bit the programme on the site" [High,Triaged]
<ara> These are the things that we will include in that page:
<ara>  * A very brief explanation of the programme, the aim of it and a link to how to participate
<ara>  * An explanation of the scoring and that people can repeat the testing if they made a mistake
<ara>  * How to report bugs
<ara>  * A disclaimer that Ubuntu Friendly will be in BETA until the release of 12.04 LTS
<ara> Anything else? What else do you think is needed?
<ara> ..
<roadmr> o/
<ara> roadmr, go ahead!
<roadmr> I'll be explaining a bit about the scoring system on the Open Week presentation tomorrow
<roadmr> of course only people who attend that session will get that information, and I don't really go into too much detail
<roadmr> but it may be a start.
<roadmr> ..
<ara> good!
<ara> Yes, friendly reminder that tomorrow roadmr will be giving a session about UF in the open week
<ara> what time roadmr?
<roadmr> it's at 16:00 UTC
<roadmr> in #ubuntu-classroom
<roadmr> ..
<ara> Cool, let your friends know! :)
<ara> Any other comments on the page?
<ara> OK, moving on
<ara> # "Report a problem" and unrelated reports (roadmr)
<ara> oops
<ara> #topic "Report a problem" and unrelated reports (roadmr)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: "Report a problem" and unrelated reports (roadmr)
<ara> much better
<roadmr> heheheh
<roadmr> so if I may
<roadmr> We like people to use UF as their first "point of contact" when looking for info about their systems, but we risk a deluge of unrelated bug reports.
<roadmr> If you're following the bug reports for UF you'll have noticed that we're getting reports for actual system problems that have little to do with UF.
<roadmr> My proposal would be to change the "report a problem" link, and turn it into a classification page.
<ara> o/
<roadmr> first section would be something like "are you having problems with your system?" - pointing people to support resources (launchpad, answers, forums).
<cr3> o/
<roadmr> Second could be "did you find a problem with the UF website/program?" - and this is where we'd point them to us.
<roadmr> This could be a good place to put a link to the FAQ with typical questions like "what to do if I need to resubmit" or "UF says my system has 5 stars but the one I have sucks" and things like that.
<roadmr> I think this beats having to invalidate people's bugs (rightfully, mind you) because they don't have anything to do actually with UF.
<roadmr> ..
<ara> my turn :)
<brendand> o/
<jedimike> o/
<ara> first of all,  I think this is a very good idea
<ara> second, it seems that the "feedback" button can be more prominent :-)
<ara> we actually have a link to ask questions and give feedback about a particular system
<ara> http://friendly.ubuntu.com/11.10/Dell%20Inc./Inspiron%201520/I:BtuJMp:Qd:BHe:IB:BEip:E2z:BYQ:L:BEi/
<ara> on the right column
<ara> but it seems like people are not finding it
<ara> ..
<ara> cr3, your turn
<cr3> 1. what if we enabled bug reporting by default in checkbox, would that reduce the number of bugs against ubuntu-friendly and would it improve the quality of bugs reported?
<cr3> 2. bugs shouldn't be invalidated as much as retargetted to the appropriate project where the user will probably be asked to run ubuntu-bug anyways, see poing #1
<cr3> ..
<ara> brendand, you go
<brendand> i think we should also add to the page a section on what to do if you think a test is wrong or some other problem with checkbox
<brendand> as we're also getting reports about checkbox via the ubuntu-friendly project
<ara> o/
<brendand> not sure about enabling bug reporting by default though
<brendand> ..
<ara> jedimike, your turn
<jedimike> I think there should be a link beneath the score, saying something like...
<jedimike> "not the score you expected?"
<jedimike> and linking to the explanation page
<cr3> o/
<jedimike> and a link saying "report a problem with the UF site", and finally one saying "I own this system and want to report a problem with it"
<jedimike> or words to those effects
<jedimike> that should get the right reports to the right places
<jedimike> ..
<ara> OK, my turn
<ara> I was just going to say that I don't think it is bad to get reports that we then redirect to checkbox trough UF. For tests that are part of UF, this is a problem that people see in UF, not the tool.
<ara> So I like getting those through UF, and then put them in checkbox with "also affects project"
<ara> ..
<ara> cr3, yes, sir?
<cr3> should people be able to find their own score/submission in ubuntu-friendly? without this, "not the score you expected" would be weird because I'm not sure people have expectations across 10s or 100s of submissions
<cr3> ..
<jedimike> o/
<ara> jedimike, go ahead
<jedimike> I like the idea of people seeing the UF score that their particular submission got, with an explanation of why it got what it did.
<jedimike> We just have to get the technial RT/UF layer correct if we do that, which I'm sure me and cr3 can do
<jedimike> ..
<cr3> o/
<ara> cr3, go ahead
<cr3> agreed with jedimike :)
<cr3> ..
<ara> OK, I think that is something we should put in our wishlist for 12.04 LTS
<ara> who takes the action item to open a wishlist bug against UF and milestone it for Precise?
<ara> ..
<ara> anyone?
<ara> open a bug is not fixing a bug! :)
<brendand> o/
<ara> cool!
<ara> thanks brendand
 * brendand put his hand up to talk
<ara> ACTION: brendand to open a wishlist bug and milestone it to Precise about finding someones submissions and explanation
<ara> #action brendand to open a wishlist bug and milestone it to Precise about finding someones submissions and explanation
<meetingology> ACTION: brendand to open a wishlist bug and milestone it to Precise about finding someones submissions and explanation
<ara> sorry, you take the action item as well :D
<ara> brendand, you wanted to say?
<brendand> i don't mind taking the action item, but i do think this feature becomes less valuable as ubuntu-friendly becomes more stable. surely the reason for it is to find problems with the algorithm?
<brendand> ..
<cr3> ara: haha, you rock!
<ara> brendand, I think the reason is to let people know where is their submission, but yes, it might be less relevant as we go
<ara> hence the wishlist bug and for precise, we will see if we finally implement it or won't fix it
<ara> ..
<ara> o/
<ara> I have a question for roadmr
<roadmr> yes?
<ara> did you know about the Feedback about this system link?
<roadmr> ara: I did :) but it seems people go into the page and the first thing they see is "report a problem" up top, and assume it's meant for "any" kind of problem.
<ara> then the page (or two links on the top) might be the solution
<ara> roadmr, anyways, we need a bug for that
<ara> roadmr, do you take the action to create it?
<roadmr> ara: sure, I'll do it
<ara> roadmr, cool, thanks
<ara> #action roadmr to open a bug about creating a page on report a problem to redirect to UF or feedback about the system
<meetingology> ACTION: roadmr to open a bug about creating a page on report a problem to redirect to UF or feedback about the system
<ara> roadmr, we will continue the discussion about the solution on the bug report
<ara> anything else on this topic?
<ara> OK, moving on
<ara> #topic Any Other Business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Any Other Business?
<ara> it does not seems like it
<ara> OK, then we can wrap up
<ara> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 17 15:38:01 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-17-15.02.moin.txt
<ara> thanks all!
<roadmr> thanks!!
<brendand> bye
<kees> \o
<micahg> kees: jdstrand is out so we're running a bit late
<kees> no worries
<mdeslaur> hello
<mdeslaur> #startmeeting Security team weekly report
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 17 17:04:38 2011 UTC.  The chair is mdeslaur. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Security team weekly report Meeting | Current topic:
<mdeslaur> #chair mdeslaur
<meetingology> Current chairs: mdeslaur
<mdeslaur> sbeattie, micahg, jjohansen, tyhicks: ready?
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: yes
<micahg> yep
<jjohansen> \o
<mdeslaur> OK, I'll go first
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week. I have a bunch of updates in the queue that needs testing, and should get published this week.
<mdeslaur> Besides that, I have a few bugs to look at.
<mdeslaur> That's it. sbeattie, you're next
<sbeattie> I have a php5 update to go out the door, an embargoed issue to test and release this week.
<sbeattie> I'm also on community this week and will take jdstrand's triage task in his absence for today, too.
<sbeattie> That's it for me, micahg?
<micahg> I've got a small regression in libvoikko due to firefox that I've got to upload, I'll be working on getting oneiric/precise VMs/setup this week, and it's a short week for me, I'm out Thu/Fri
<micahg> tyhicks: tag
<tyhicks> I'm in the happy place this week.
<tyhicks> I'm going to be working on an ecryptfs-utils bug and some eCryptfs kernel bugs reported recently.
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I'm in the learning place this week (so I guess that's happy place)
<jjohansen> I have some new staff tasks to finish off yet, and the kernel cve process to learn
<jjohansen> and I can always fall back to apparmor bugs, and dev
<jjohansen> but some how I think I will probably be kept busy
<sbeattie> jjohansen: welcome to the team!
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: welcome!
<jjohansen> good to be here
<jjohansen> I think that is it from me
<jjohansen> mdeslaur: back to you?
<mdeslaur> yep, hold on a sec, I'm generating the highlighted packages
<micahg> jjohansen: I think as a specialist, you might be in the perpetual happy place :)
<mdeslaur> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so. See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/S
<mdeslaur> ecuri
<jjohansen> micahg: well I can't help being an optomist!
<mdeslaur> Here are this weeks packages:
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/phpbb3.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/zend-framework.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libphp-adodb.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/root-system.html
<mdeslaur> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/oftc-hybrid.html
<mdeslaur> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<mdeslaur> ok, I guess that's it then
<mdeslaur> thanks everyone
<mdeslaur> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 17 17:17:09 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-17-17.04.moin.txt
<jjohansen> thanks mdeslaur
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: thanks!
<tyhicks> thanks mdeslaur!
<micahg> mdeslaur: thanks
<em_>  /w 3
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-18
<sabdfl> Dholbach, hi
<dholbach> hey sabdfl
<sabdfl> Cool, just checking comm from kiwi land
<sabdfl> Thanks
<dholbach> sabdfl, still 1h30m to go, right? :)
<sabdfl> Catch you in 90
<dholbach> awesome :)
<sabdfl> We going to get all hands?
<dholbach> I'm aiming for "most hands" - I'll round up as many as I can, but with some living in SF, I doubt we get all
<sabdfl> Ok, till then
<dholbach> see you :)
<beuno> o/
<dholbach> o//
<YokoZar> mmhmm
<YokoZar> Good....morning?
<sabdfl> Hello all
<beuno> good afternoon sabdfl
<sabdfl> Who do we have from the CC?
 * YokoZar waves
<beuno> o/
<technoviking> morning all
<akgraner> o/
<popey> o/
<sabdfl> Beuno, London?
<dholbach> it looks like we have beuno (new CC), YokoZar (new CC), popey (old CC), czajkowski (new CC) and Gwaihir (maybe new CC), technoviking (old CC)
<beuno> sabdfl, not this week, back home now. Was adjusting to your NZ TZ  :)
<sabdfl> Heh
<sabdfl> Thanks Daniel
<czajkowski> aloha
<Gwaihir> hello all!
<sabdfl> Daniel, can you take us through any agenda items, then I'll lead a general welcome and discussion
<akgraner> o/
<dholbach> oh, and akgraner :)
<dholbach> our agenda wiki page is empty, but I think it's worth talking about handover and making sure we announce the final new CC
<sabdfl> Ok. Any word from emmet?
<dholbach> but that's something we can easily do after the welcome and discussion
<dholbach> no, unfortunately not - I texted him, mailed him, PMed him and sent a memo through MemoServ :-(
<YokoZar> persia is in the channel, at least
<sabdfl> Persia, around?
<czajkowski> and idle over a day
<czajkowski> so active in some way at least
<dholbach> czajkowski, or his irc proxy/relay merely reconnected
<czajkowski> dholbach: aye perhaps
<sabdfl> Regardless, we've not heard, we'll move on
<dholbach> whatever the decision is we take here, I'll try harder to hear back from him and if it's just to make sure that he's OK
<sabdfl> Gwaihir, I understand you are willing to serve on this term of the cc, welcome
<Gwaihir> sabdfl, yes, I'll be willing to step in, as confirmed to dholbach
<Gwaihir> and thank you for the welcome!
<sabdfl> Daniel, you and I should follow up with Persia as you say, but the role is bigger than the man, and we have clear guidance on the need to participate or step down
 * dholbach nods
<sabdfl> I'll update LP on the morrow
<dholbach> and I'll add Milo to the CC list
<czajkowski> Gwaihir: welcome :)
<sabdfl> Right, we have good representation of prior and new CC
 * Gwaihir thanks czajkowski
<sabdfl> I want to offer an open mike to departing cc members
<dholbach> also I'll take an action to summarise the "open items" of the old CC and try to provide sufficient background on all of them
<sabdfl> Good idea dholbach, let's do that by email
<dholbach> yep
<sabdfl> Big picture, old cc, what do you want to see from the new team?
<popey> i think i used up my open mike at the last meeting  ;)
<sabdfl> Yeah, I read all about it ;)
<sabdfl> I think we can put that on te agenda tonight
<popey> yup, I'm happy with the progress jono etc are making there
<popey> be good for the new cc to keep tabs on it though.
<sabdfl> I thought about it and came to the conclusion I blogged
<YokoZar> ~persia, I don't know how long he's been mia but personally I wouldn't feel compelled to replace him until UDS
<sabdfl> W haven't reduced the places community participates, but we have added scope for product definition
<sabdfl> Yokozar, it's done
<YokoZar> aye
<sabdfl> I thought Martin Owens take was interesting
<sabdfl> Sine he was one of those most taken aback when we started to step up on design
<beuno> sabdfl, this was his comment on your blog post?
<YokoZar> Martin and I have discussed it in the past
<popey> http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/805#comment-378929
<sabdfl> Yes. As I read it, he was saying 'I was upset when this started, but it's actually headed in a good direction, let's see where it goes'
<sabdfl> There are a few hard truths that I think floss folk need to accept
<sabdfl> The first is that corporate teams can do heavy lifting that cannot be done by consensus or consortia
<czajkowski> nods
<sabdfl> Mob in and meego and limo are samples of failures on the consortium front - as will tine
<sabdfl> Tizen
<sabdfl> Red hat is playing this role in Gnome, regardless of the populist story of community design
<sabdfl> The second is that it's pointless to aim for total transparency
<sabdfl> Any company has to figure out what it an commit to on it's own time and dime
<YokoZar> Martin hinted at improvement, but I think the cynicism he's referring to is still very much out there.
<sabdfl> Red hat, intel, canonical, Duse
<czajkowski> sabdfl: I think we can improve our communications about what has been disucssed and come to the conclusions of
<akgraner> So I don't think the majority of the people mind that Canonical does the heavy lifting, I think that people just want to know with certainty how and where they fit into the bigger picture
<beuno> having been talking to a lot of people about this issue, I think there's a subtelty to the design issue that hasn't quite been expressed, the direction we're moving in is no longer heavily focused on power users, which our community is mostly composed of, making them feel Ubuntu is not for them anymore. I think there's a gap there we need to figure out how to fill.
<sabdfl> I don't really care about the cynical view, it's poorly informed and cannot actually turn into a viable force
<akgraner> and where they can be most beneficial
<sabdfl> I'm not sure I agree
<sabdfl> Power users are adopting MacOS in droves
<YokoZar> There's a pretty big gulf of difference between total transparency and the opacity of Mac
<sabdfl> Exactly
<sabdfl> Tere are vastly more opportunities to participate in ubuntu than MacOS
<beuno> right, sorry, I didn't mean related to transparency in decision making
<czajkowski> indeed which is great to see and more oportunities for people to express themselves
<sabdfl> From an actual participation point of view, I think we are incredibly accessible
<czajkowski> agree
<czajkowski> there are many ways for people to intereact and join in if they chose to do so.
<sabdfl> I'm not interested in the griping of a person who wants to be able to put the launcher St the top and add xeyes to it
<sabdfl> Especially if they won't contribute a patch, with tests, and commit to maintain it
<YokoZar> Well put
<sabdfl> There are plenty of places for that in the broader *bunt universe
<beuno> right, and maybe that's something to explore as a way to channel some of these folks
<dholbach> I agree that things have improved, especially in the unity world where there's loads of people contributing nowadays, but I see the concerns brought forward in the last meeting as something a bit broader - we have a lot of people who do fantastic work and who are perceived as the leaders in their domain - this is great, but at the same time can be intimidating and leaving contributors in a spot where they don't exactly know how and what t
<dholbach> o contribute because a possible perception by bold plans and actions could be the question "where do I fit in there?"
<czajkowski> yup, if people have issues and do want to change things, I'd rather see them giving a soltion rather than pointing out flaws, eveyrone can do that If you want to be part of the community, provide a solution
<YokoZar> What about messes we create?
<sabdfl> In that light, at UDS I'll outline a lot more of the big picture we've been working towards
<sabdfl> In other words, what Ubuntu could be by 14.04
<popey> It's been pointed out to me on more than one occasion that we're chasing 'users' and losing 'contributors'.
<sabdfl> Now, it can only be that with broad engagement with a passionate community
<sabdfl> Of contributors ;)
<YokoZar> Agreed.
<Gwaihir> I agree with dholbach, even in our community we feel that people are willing to contribute, a lot, but they are a little bit lost where to start and on how to start
<akgraner> I think it all fits together - 1) acknowledge the flaw as a flaw 2) if determined it is a flaw plan to fix the flaw 3) implement said plan 4) measure the success...so pointing out the flaw is the first step
<sabdfl> As Daniel said, we've established a good pattern of contribution to unity
<sabdfl> That's crucial
<czajkowski> yup, I think the unity developers get an unfair amount of flack for unity and do a great job
<sabdfl> Pretty cool that we have both contributions to the core, and apps integrating
<sabdfl> So how do we put the boot into the griping?
<YokoZar> I think there are two kinds of griping
<YokoZar> There's the classic kind that you mentioned earlier
<sabdfl> I'm sick of it, it's very demotivating
<popey> sabdfl: +1
<sabdfl> And it's basically uninformed
<sabdfl> We tried to help gnome and got the finger, now we are going to find our own way
<beuno> so one of the challenges is how do we take something centrally designed, not necessarily 100% in the open, and help everyone feel like they're part of it
<sabdfl> And in that regard, we are leading, others are following, and it's easy to participate
<YokoZar> I worry most about regressions
<sabdfl> Regressions would be a great focus for contribution
<YokoZar> I think griping there has a legitimacy to it, since in that case the solution the griper proposes can be for us to simply not have done whatever we did that broke it
<sabdfl> Because they are easiest to detect and fix on a crowd sourced basic
<akgraner> If people have skin in the game they are less likely to grip, whine, moan etc - so let's make sure we communicate all the ways there are to contribute and where to go to get started and put some skin in the game, mentor new leaders to step up, train new people to do the roles that other people have held for years etc
<YokoZar> For simple bugs like hardware and stuff, yeah.  Those are mere quality regressions.
<czajkowski>  skin?
<YokoZar> But sometimes this bold new design of ours causes a regression in experience in some case that used to work well, and we don't clean up our own mess.
<sabdfl> I wish folk realised how much canonical spends on doing bugs that after hardware which is not certified
<akgraner> czajkowski, skin=it means they have a stake in the outcome
<czajkowski> k
<sabdfl> We could of course reduce the team, and just focus on hardware that we're paid to make work, leaving the community to fix hardware that the community cares about
<YokoZar> oh man I sympathize totally, hardware is a complete beast.  But at least the solution is straightforward in most cases, and not particularly controversial
<akgraner> sabdfl, so how can we as a team work on making sure we have a clear picture so we can effectively communicate that to the community
<akgraner> so we aren't misinformed first and foremost
<marianom> hi everybody
<sabdfl> Akgraner, I think the good news is, we've swallowed all the bitter pills already
<akgraner> :-)
<YokoZar> Perhaps an explicit example of the kind of thing I'm talking about might help here
<sabdfl> In the move to Unity, and U1, that's all the hard stuff I can think of
<YokoZar> Yup
<czajkowski> indeed
<sabdfl> Now, we need to figure out two things
<sabdfl> First how we build a community that is behind those choices, and thick skinned to those who want something else, because at the end of the day we cannot be all things to all people
<sabdfl> And second, how we make those things *great*
<YokoZar> There are still things out there (and users that relied on them) that were regressed by some of the tradeoffs Unity made, for instance.  And we haven't fixed all those "regressions".  In some cases we've probably not even acknowledged them.  You'd need thick skin indeed to be able to deal with the kind of resentment that might breed.
<beuno> yeah, I think there's some middle ground here
<sabdfl> Regressions that don't involve splitting attention can be fixed, and patches welcome
<dholbach> moving forward I think it's important to deal with gripes about quality, because they might have actual fact to them and then celebrate our successes and create an environment that contributors want to be part of (team atmosphere, ease of getting started, knowing what to do, etc.) - whoever doesn't like the decisions has alternatives
<sabdfl> For example, if the move to compiz broke a shortcut which is still useful, let's take a patch
<sabdfl> If the regression is that one cannot add a gnome applet to the panel, tou
<sabdfl> Gh
<czajkowski> REgression happens, patches welcome, unless it affects key ares such as a11y and making it totally unusable
<czajkowski> then those need to be fixed
<sabdfl> We are the only commercial grade platform that anybody can participate in shaping as an actual final product
<YokoZar> sabdfl: Well put.  Perhaps the diffculty out there is that some people are expecting Canonical to fix every kind of regression, when that's not quite feasible.  So instead Canonical focuses on its own priorities, and the lack of a fix gets interpretted badly
<sabdfl> Some sector of the floss community finds that exciting, that's our audience
<czajkowski> YokoZar: +1
<sabdfl> What we do is not a prototype or a concept or a community edition or a developer-only offering
<AlanBell> what I think needs a bit more definition is the use case for Ubuntu, home or office. At the moment it is kind of both. This also defines the community.
<sabdfl> Yokozar, daniel can speak eloquently to the ease with which fixes can land; if issues are really widely relevant, the communityis completely empowered to fix em
<beuno> I'm not sure we've gotten any closer to figuring out how to improve the current situation, though
<YokoZar> sabdfl: Yeah.  I wonder if there may be an expectation problem though...I personally, for instance, am much more likely to take up a task when I know no one else is going to do it unless I do.  So when I have false expectations that something will be taken care of by someone else then things stay broken.
<sabdfl> Well, being clear about mutual interests and commitments is a start
<sabdfl> Alanbell, I think you're right, and we can nail that at UDS
<YokoZar> I think it's a good discussion to have.  First thing that comes to my mind is that, eg, Mono has a nice "Stuff we're not working on but would totally accept community contributions for" wiki page that's really easy to find.
<sabdfl> As a start, we're going to split out the corporate and consumer use cases
<czajkowski> that s agood start
<YokoZar> Universe/Main is a similar thing we do well
<sabdfl> I'd like Canonical to do a corporate desktop remix, where we focus on corporate needs like thin clients and acrobat
<sabdfl> With Ubuntu itself focused on the consumer and home user
<sabdfl> That would be a good start
<YokoZar> Would that involve Canonical products like Landscape?
<sabdfl> Yokozar, we could tag unity bugs to get the same effect
<czajkowski> +1
<dholbach> YokoZar, I think you're mentioning an interesting problem - maybe less in the world of bugs and code, where you can easily see to whom a bug is assigned - but in the world or planning and organisation I've experienced expectations that led to nothing happening (ie: "I thought Jono and his team would deal with this") - but maybe that's a separate discussion to have, probably at the leadership mini sprint at UDS
<sabdfl> Yokozar, more streamlining of ubuntu, sans gwibber and games, adding things like remote desktop clients and adobe bits
<czajkowski> that does make a lot of sense really
<sabdfl> Ok
<sabdfl> Who's coming to UDS?
<dholbach> o/
<akgraner> o/
<YokoZar> o/
<AlanBell> sabdfl: that would be great, and you can have a community of consumer app developers, a corporate support and integration ecosystem (including Canonical), and end user customers of the OEM channel
<Gwaihir> o/
<Pendulum> sorry, I just had to catch up, but I would like to point out that sometimes there are regressions where the users being affected can't do the fixing (this is currently an issue with an accessility bug that means that there's no working screen magnifier for all of either version of Unity)
<popey> not me â¹
<czajkowski> pleia2:  is also
<akgraner> lyz will be there too
<czajkowski> noe me :(
<YokoZar> sabdfl: Yeah, I think some sort of mechanism in Unity in particular would be useful here (well, any Main app really, especially ones where Canonical is upstream), since there the default assumption probably isn't "community needs to take care of this"
<czajkowski> *not
<sabdfl> My turn on the bull, Daniel has the floor ;)
<czajkowski> I thinkn 7/8 of the CC will be there
<AlanBell> though for the corporate desktop I would focus on LDAP and configuration management (like ensemble) rather than thin clients
<technoviking> I will not
<czajkowski> technoviking: morning
<dholbach> I haven't done so yet, but I'd like to thank everybody for their hard work on the CC. Big big hugs! :)
<Pendulum> dholbach: +1
<technoviking> czajkowski: morning
<akgraner> dholbach, +1
<Gwaihir> dholbach, +1
 * technoviking hugs dholbach 
<dholbach> I'll try to get the summary of open CC items out tomorrow, so I hope that'll spark some interesting conversations, and hopefully let us find solutions to all of them. :-)
<akgraner> thanks dholbach
<czajkowski> excellent plan thanks dholbach
<dholbach> are there any questions from new CC members?
<czajkowski> nope I think this has been a productive 1st meeting
<sabdfl> Agreed, welcome aboard, and see most of you in Orlando!
<dholbach> that's all I can think of for now
<akgraner> not at this time....interesting 1st meeting though
<akgraner> sabdfl, thank you!
<Gwaihir> not for me now too, I think I already have a big picture of the tasks ahead
<YokoZar> Thank you folks
<sabdfl> Adios e gracias
<dholbach> it looks like our next CC meeting will be during UDS
<popey> o;/
<YokoZar> dholbach: postpone it, hold a room?
<dholbach> so let's try to figure out a way of how we can do this, or maybe move it - we can do that via email I think and update the wiki page accordingly
<YokoZar> iirc it's at a reasonable hour florida time
<Gwaihir> dholbach, what time will be the meeting in Orlando timezone?
<dholbach> 21:00 UTC is what ... 18:00 Florida time?
<dholbach> if that's the case, it should be right after sessions, which should be alright
<dholbach> let's figure this out via email :)
<highvoltage> man I wish I could've woken up 40 minutes earlier :)
<dholbach> I'm getting hungry :)
 * beuno will miss this UDS
 * dholbach hugs you all
<dholbach> thanks everybody, you all rock!
<Gwaihir> thank you all for this first meeting!
<YokoZar> cheers
 * beuno waves
<jono> alrighty!
<jono> time for the Canonical community team meeting
 * jono tries to figure out the bot
<popey> hash startmeeting
<jono> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 18 15:01:14 2011 UTC.  The chair is jono. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jono> aha!
<jcastro> hah
<jono> ok, so this is the first Canonical community team meeting on IRC
<jono> the goal here is to provide a more transparent view of what the team is doing
<jono> in each meeting we usually kick off with a set of roundtables where every discusses what they have been doing over the last week
<jono> obviously confidential topics will not be mentioned, but 99% of topics are open anyway
<jono> so, let's kick off
<jono> dholbach, want to go first?
<jcastro> he's giving a class
<dholbach> jono, giving an UOW session right now - dpm has my notes :)
<kim0> hehe
<jono> ok
<jono> dpm?
<jono> slacker, even on the first one
<jono> lol
<dpm> jono I'm here!
<dpm> lol
<jono> dpm, can you post dholbach's notes?
<dpm> sure
<dpm> So here are dholbach's notes:
<dpm>  â CC election + hand-over to new CC
<dpm>  â dev survey
<dpm>  â uds sponsorship - almost done
<dpm>  â email - down to 10 in my inbox!
<dpm>  â discussion on ubuntu-devel about NEW packages
<dpm>  â updated 12.04 plans
<dpm>  â stitched together pic of all uploaders (with LP profile pic) to oneiric for weekly dev update: http://people.canonical.com/~dholbach/oneiric.jpg
<dpm>  â set up precise vm
<jono> the uploaders pic was awesome
 * dpm +1's
<dpm>  â set up patch pilot schedule
<dpm> And that was Daniel's most relevant activities for the week
<kim0> super time efficient!
<jono> seriously :-)
<jono> ok, dpm want to go next?
<dpm> jono, sure
<dpm> So my week was divided in translations and mostly app developer stuff:
<dpm> Translations
<dpm> ------------
<dpm> * Ensured translation stats are ready for release (they're now updated automatically every day at http://is.gd/aTv7eu )
<dpm> * Sent skaet the release notes for translations to go into the general release notes
<dpm> * Filed a bunch of translations bugs, mostly software-center-related. Some were fixed pre-release, some might have to be SRU'd
<dpm> * Some discussions on the mailing list. Highlight: Oneiric post-release language pack updates schedule
<dpm> App devel
<dpm> ---------
<dpm> * Went through some of the bugs in the ubuntuappdeveloperportal project in Launchpad
<dpm> * Fixed the simple-player tutorial on developer.ubuntu.com (there were some out-of-date parts)
<dpm> * Started regular calls with jpugh to ensure both the community and the business sides work together on promoting app development
<dpm> * Went through app-development-related questions on askubuntu and tagged them as 'application-development'. We've now got more than 100!
<dpm> * Some discussions on integrating the ARB process into MyApps
<dpm> Other - community
<dpm> -----------------
<dpm> * Had a call with kim0 to discuss 12.04 strategy
<dpm> * Worked with johnoxton from the web design team on a revamp of the ubuntu.com/community page
<dpm> * Made a list of the active community teams and their resources
<dpm> Other
<dpm> -----
<dpm> * Bank holiday last Wednesday
<dpm> And that was my week
<jono> thanks dpm, also thanks for the u.c/community discussion
<jono> did John reach out to you regarding reqs?
<jono> I met with him in London
<dpm> jono, no worries - yeah, we've been having some calls and working together on this
<jono> given that they are tight on time, I think his plans look great for outlining five or so key roles
<jono> awesome
<jono> dpm spins his d.u.c magic
<jono> :-)
<jono> thanks dpm
<dpm> :)
<jono> kim0 next?
<kim0> Sure
<kim0> I don't have it pre-written .. so typing fasst ..
<kim0> - was off half last week .. so did some general catchup
<jcastro> I am lucky I get to go last!
<jono> no worries kim0
<kim0> - Finished off the strategic plan
<jono> jcastro, see what I did for you there?
<jono> ;-)
 * jono hugs jcastro
<kim0> - Had a talk with dpm on that as well (thanks)
<kim0> - Needed to push the reviewed serverguide on Oneiric release day!
<kim0> -- For that, reviewed the remaining 3 chapters myself
<kim0> -- sent out coordination emails on server list asking every volunteer to review their chapters
<kim0> -- created 5 merge proposals for chapters .. reached out to doc committers list
<kim0> -- reached out to translators list to get confirmation, we can push and that no translator is on it
<kim0> -- finally all chapters merged .. success
<kim0> - Created nice green visulasion and blogged it http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2011/10/ubuntu-serverguide-community-review-100percent/
<kim0> - Created wiki page on using juju to control an orchestra server fleet: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/OrchestraJuju
<kim0> - Created wiki page on install ubuntu-cloud (openstack) using juju charms on top of orchestra : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/UbuntuCloudOrchestraJuju
<kim0> - Blogged an article with pointers to all four needed pages: http://cloud.ubuntu.com/2011/10/ubuntu-cloud-deployment-with-orchestra-and-juju/
<kim0> - Also created a video demo'ing ubuntu-cloud-live today .. apparently youtube chokes on OGV
<kim0> so converting to whatever and pushing today
<kim0> - smaller stuff: Fill cloud part in dpm's new community overview page, review UCD for Amber's checklist document, cloud portal maintainence (answer comments)
<kim0> that's mostly all
<jono> thanks kim0
<jono> jcastro, your go
<jcastro> ok!
<jcastro> DONE:
<jcastro> - Plenaries are all done (2 left from Linaro)
<jcastro> - We have a car for UDS for the week before the sprint.
<jcastro> - Reviewed upstream linkages in release notes for Kate.
<jcastro> - Finished the mobile schedule, should be public any day now.
<jcastro> - Submitted talk with Clint for SCALeS awesome cloud day.
<jcastro> - Went to Puerto Rico this weekend and drank from a coconut, and then ate the coconut. It was awesome.
<jcastro> DOING:
<jcastro> - Openweek stuff.
<jcastro> - Random "how do I schedule a session?" questions from ubuntu developers.
<jcastro> - Send people here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS/Scheduling
<jcastro> - Random UDS things, updating the website.
<jcastro> - Still procastinating on my goals and blueprints, but I promise to start today, for real. Actually can we set a deadline?
<jcastro> - Ping from some developers on app indicator support, sent them to DX.
<jcastro> - Messing with juju local dev, this will be wicked.
<jcastro> - Working with guy who is porting the AU and reddit lenses to 11.10. He's blocking on a bug, followed up with didrocks, mikkel's got a patch in hand and it's been reviewed by Tomau upstream, waiting on an SRU to make Python lenses actually work.
<jcastro> - Telling the world about the Ubuntu Friendly thing, because it's awesome
<jcastro> TODOs:
<jcastro> In an unprecedent move to improve transparency, I am making my TODO list public, and prototpying this with akgraner and pleia, anyone is welcome to join in and assign me stuff. You can see what I am working on in real time, holla at me if you want to give this a shot and see if it works for us:
<jcastro> - https://trello.com/board/community-team/4e6febfb247e35000000aab1
<jcastro> - https://trello.com/board/classroom/4e94f7afaef5aa0000a5d2ea
<jcastro> any questions?
<jcastro> :)
<kim0> man u should paste line by line
<kim0> :)
<jono> braindrump
<dpm> jcastro, showoff!
<jono> hate that guy
<jono> lol
<jono> one of the nice things about this meeting format is that I am listening to Dio right now :-)
<jono> thanks jcastro
<jono> ok, I am up next
<jono> -- Week before in Boston for OpenStack Summit - good event, JuJu demo went really well, the team did an awesome job.
<jono> Also sat in on their governance/foundation session - was interesting, but I think they are going to face more challenges than they face
<jono> the real challenge is when all the companies want things outside of the published governance
<jono> -- In London last week for the release sprint - sat in management meetings for half of it
<jono> discussed as range of topics in mgmt meetings such as new quality processes for 12.04, localized isos (dpm need to discuss this with you), derivs and the release process
<jono> outside of that discussed Mark's opening talk at UDS, the design<->community process and how we open it up more, caught up on the ARB
<jono> was great to hang with some of the QA folks, jibel and gema are awesome
<jono> also had a bunch of calls with community members over the recent feedback and concerns about motivation - merged that into my notes
<dpm> jono, on localized isos, the main point to resolve now is testing. I had a chat with skaet and arranged a call with her and jibel next Monday
<jono> hit up the release party which was fun, and I still blame popey for my head on the flight back
<jono> dpm, yeah, I want to ensure we tightly scope that work
<jono> all you should focus on is connecting the translations leads to the release process
<jono> we don't want to spend too much time on this one with everything else going on
<jono> got back on Friday and I am behind on email
<jono> -- UDS related bits
<jono> social events finished
<jono> finalizing Linaro requirements - they all seem set now
<jono> blueprinting going well, badgered engineering managers and tech leads about it - the schedule is starting to form now
<jono> jcastro, we need to keep an eye on the BPs to approve them - I approved 55 last night
<jono> pgraner and I also discussed plans for Allstars :-)
<jcastro> wait, I don't approve blueprints
<jcastro> or am I supposed to now?
<jono> jcastro, oh, I thought you did
<jono> jcastro, I know I can, who else can?
<jcastro> track leads
<jono> ahhh cool
<jono> I will pester them again
<jono> -- spent a bunch of time working on gathering and processing community feedback to resolve community concerns
<jono> oh, hang on
<jono> jcastro, did you get that Nokia session scheduled
<jono> I am not sure if Claire reached out to you
<jcastro> let me check
<jono> thanks
<jono> I will carry
<jono> on
<jono> survey is still gathering results, plan on closing that off tomorrow and then start processing results
<jono> more calls
<jono> email feedback was plentiful, some patterns observed in common concerns
<jono> discussed with folks at OpenStack and London about this, got some great feedback from some ex-Canonical staff for areas of focus
<jono> already started providing some responses and solutions, but plan to start releasing the data later this week, and next week
<jono> -- 12.04 plan
<jono> working with the team to finalize 12.04 plans
<jono> switching around some team responsibilities
<jono> I think that is mostly it from me
<jcastro> I'm unaware of any nokia session
<jcastro> is this a session or a plenary?
<jono> jcastro, remember how we discussed having a Qt plenary but we were full so we suggested a session
<jono> we discussed this at OpenStack
<jono> I will ask clan to ping you to coordinate
<jcastro> ah ok
<jcastro> I can ping her
<jono> thanks
<jcastro> no worries, sorry, I verbally agreed but didn't write down
<jono> np
<jono> on UDS related business - jcastro can you keep an eye on the leadership summit and ensure it keeps getting moved back to Bonaire 2?
<jcastro> is it moving around?!
<jono> yup
<jono> it was last night
<jono> sorry, pal
<jono> I know you hate doing this
<jcastro> huh, weird
<jcastro> ok I will keep an eye on it
<jono> thanks!
<jono> ok, so does anyone have any agenda items?
<jcastro> maybe someone else is moving it
<jcastro> jono: yeah
<jono> jcastro, I doubt someone else moved it, the room was empty
<jono> I think it must be the autoscheduler
<jcastro> hmm, we'll look into it, it's not supposed to move things after you manually set them
<jcastro> one thing we do need to fix
<jono> weird
<jono> thanks
<jono> so any agenda items folks?
<jcastro> is mhall119 is still struggling with IS on the memory errors on the server hosting summit
<jono> mhall119?
<jcastro> we might need your ticket bumping powers if the next thing they try doesn't work
<jono> ok
<james_w> we hope that is resolved
<dpm> I've got nothing for the agenda today
<james_w> some changes were made that hopefully will fix the memory problems
<james_w> I haven't heard any reports of problems since
<jono> ok cool
<jono> so I have a few short agenda items
<mhall119> I haven't gotten any error emails since the change
<jono> kim0, jcastro, dpm, dholbach UDS related bits:L
<jono> I have asked msm to book us a few private meetings to discuss team related bits after the plenaries on the Mon and Wed
<jono> also could you all ensure you get your blueprints registered this week
<jono> next week we will be at the pre-UDS sprints and things are gonna be crazy then
<jcastro> ok, so by friday?
<jono> jcastro, no urgent date, but get most of it in this week
<jono> jcastro, we need to review youe 12.04 plan before then
 * jcastro nods
<jono> one other topic
<jono> for those of you who are not aware, which should be everyone apart from the team, Eric Ward left us last week
<jono> Eric was working as the new QA Community Coordinator
<jono> unfortunately Eric felt like the role was just not right for him
<jono> and he left part way through the release sprint
<jono> that's it from me really
<jono> any other business?
<jcastro> I believe dholbach wanted to talk more about Dio
<jono> haha
<jono> he always does
<dholbach> Dio?
<jono> Metallica vs. Megadeth ;-)
<dpm> dholbach, don't start them
 * kim0 jumps 10mins into the future
<jono> we can talk about the Jonas Brothers if you guys want
<jono> kim0, LOL
<dpm> metal trolling
<jcastro> BIEBER
<jono> I have the fever
<jono> alright, we are done
<jono> thanks everyone!
<jono> #endmeeting
<dholbach> I'll read and try to understand the logs later on. :-P
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 15:38:20 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-18-15.01.moin.txt
<dr3mro> gr8ingz from Egypt ubuntu team !!!!
<zul> yello
<Ursinha> it's that time of the week
<SpamapS> Indeed
<Daviey> Hola!
<AlanBell> dpm: I am interested in doing an en_GB iso
<smb> Though probably not more to say than "get that blueprints running"... :)
<SpamapS> #startmeeting ServerTeam
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 18 16:01:10 2011 UTC.  The chair is SpamapS. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ServerTeam Meeting | Current topic:
<SpamapS> #TOPIC Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ServerTeam Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<SpamapS> zul: is the action list on the wiki page at all accurate?
<zul> SpamapS: i think so
<SpamapS> last edit before mine was 10/04
<zul> although s/oneiric/precise/g
<SpamapS> hggdh and SpamapS to discuss SRU verification work for bug 750371 at next meeting or before (hggdh to test)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750371 in squid (Ubuntu Maverick) "squid causing /var to stay busy during shutdown" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750371
<SpamapS> we'll talk about that when its his turn :)
<SpamapS> jamespage to follow up with jhunt on udev/lvm bugs including 801494
<SpamapS> guessing that got solved before the release
<jamespage> SpamapS, I think the worst of it did
<SpamapS> smoser, utlemming and smb to follow up on Bug 854050
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 854050 in linux (Ubuntu) "BUG at /build/buildd/linux-2.6.38/mm/swapfile.c:255" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/854050
<Daviey> ^^ in smb's section. yeah?
<smoser> i believe that smb has just put some content there.
<SpamapS> indeed
<smb> SpamapS, Just preparing some patches for sru. Unfortunately kernel.org down thing slows things down a bit
<smoser> he added an SRU justification
<hallyn> jhunt, were you going to look into the remainibg lvm+udev issues at all?
<Daviey> (Shall we let him respond in AOB?)
<SpamapS> indeed
<SpamapS> utlemming to figure out qemu image situation (carry-over)
<SpamapS> utlemming isn't here, will carry that one
<SpamapS> #action utlemming to figure out qemu image situation (carry-over)
<meetingology> ACTION: utlemming to figure out qemu image situation (carry-over)
<SpamapS> Daviey to talk to ttx and keystone honcho for guidance about oneiric package
<SpamapS> guessing that was handled last meeting?
<jhunt> hallyn: kinda bogged down trying to get the upstart feature destined for oneiric into perfect atm... Happy to look at it, but might be best for an lvm expert to be involved :)
<hallyn> kthx
<Daviey> SpamapS: sort of, it's not great shape - but acceptable, until the bugs roll in ;)
<smoser> perfect.
<SpamapS> #topic Precise Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ServerTeam Meeting | Current topic:  Precise Development
<Daviey> Sync, Sync, Merge, Sync!
<Daviey> Start thinking about blueprints you want to achieve. (A formal request will be sent soonly!)
<SpamapS> Huzzah! a new release is upon us
<Daviey> Look over bugs and features that were not resolved last cycle, and help consider if they need driving for this cycle.
<smoser> s/perfect/precise/ i think jhunt
<Daviey> This is also a good oppertunity to help drive the bug lists down.. We all need to put more time into this process (not just step 1)
<Daviey> Sync, Sync, Merge, Sync! - This is the time in the cycle, where the heavy lifting is achieved.  Thankfully, we are merging from debian testing (wheezy), meaning that it should be an easier ride.  If you have any questions regarding this, please do ask.
<Daviey> New release tracking issues, http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html - if you are working on something that is not on that list, please make it known.
<Daviey> Thanks!
<SpamapS> #link http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<SpamapS> http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<jhunt> smoser: :) Odd as I have no problem remembering the Pangolin element.
 * SpamapS pokes the bot
<SpamapS> Anybody have any perfunctory predelections before I move on?
<Daviey> Wait. nobody is working on bugs not on that list?
<SpamapS> One thing .. NICE JOB EVERYONE on 11.10 Server
<smoser> jhunt, its probably more just your general perfection that makes you want to improve the adjective.
<zul> SpamapS:  yes stop using big words
<SpamapS> Daviey: have not reviewed the list
<SpamapS> didn't even know it existed, or what the report means really.
<Daviey> SpamapS: That is issues that are being worked on to be tracked.
<SpamapS> #action ALL: review http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html and make known any other bugs that need to be added to the list.
<meetingology> ACTION: ALL: review http://status.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html and make known any other bugs that need to be added to the list.
<SpamapS> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ServerTeam Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<SpamapS> Winter is coming, and so is UDS-P
<Ursinha> brace yourselves
<SpamapS> Anybody else attending conferences/meetups/tea parties in the near future?
<lynxman> SpamapS: LISA'11 in December (that's near enough)
<SpamapS> lynxman: link?
<lynxman> SpamapS: http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa11/index.html
<SpamapS> alright, if thats all then..
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ServerTeam Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<zul> wohoo...i get to wear shorts in november
<SpamapS> hggdh: bug 750371 needs a maverick verification.. can you make that happen?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 750371 in squid (Ubuntu Maverick) "squid causing /var to stay busy during shutdown" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/750371
<hggdh> SpamapS: yes. I did test it, but I still see fs messages during boot (but no recovery)
<hggdh> we need to talk about that
<SpamapS> hggdh: roger that, lets talk after the meeting
<SpamapS> anything else?
<hggdh> no, no news from teh QA front, except getting ready for UDS
<hggdh> ..
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ServerTeam Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Don't think I got anything exiting right now... Except the get-ready-for-UDS thing...
 * SpamapS is certain smoser has *something* for smb
<Daviey> smb: hola!
 * smb is sure there is something. There always is. :-P
<smoser> i can say i dont have anything.
<Daviey> bug 790712 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 790712 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "20110531 i386 server ISO: order 5 allocation failure during install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790712
<Daviey> Did you get the info you needed?
 * smb cannot remember having seen something...
<Daviey> hmm, in that case, hggdh / jamespage - are you able to extract the data from jenkins that smb needs?
<hggdh> Daviey: I will do it -- need to lower memory allocation, and re-run i386 until we get the failure
 * jamespage looking at bug
<smb> Maybe best thing would be to meet up at UDS and brain storm a bit
<SpamapS> Shall we move on, and work this one out before next week's meeting?
<Daviey> SpamapS: can you action?
<SpamapS> #action smb, jamespage, hggdh to work on triaging bug 790712
<meetingology> ACTION: smb, jamespage, hggdh to work on triaging bug 790712
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 790712 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "20110531 i386 server ISO: order 5 allocation failure during install" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/790712
<SpamapS> NCommander: you here?
<Daviey> smb: A general thanks for giving us a great Oneiric Kernel! :)
<smb> Daviey, will relay that to the rest of the gang. :)
<Daviey> groovy!
<Daviey> I think NCommander is in a call
<SpamapS> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ServerTeam Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions from the Ubuntu Community
<SpamapS> we'll skip Ncommander for now then, will check back in
<SpamapS> HELLO community!
<Daviey> I suspect they are all busy.
<SpamapS> indeed, some might say our community is the busiest. ;)
<cprofitt> SpamapS: what do you need?
<lynxman> it is indeed
<bkerensa> =o
<lynxman> bkerensa: oh hey :)
<bkerensa> lynxman: Hi Marc
<SpamapS> cprofitt: as always, users, bug reports, and suggestions are what we need. :)
<SpamapS> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ServerTeam Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<cprofitt> SpamapS: /whois SpamapS
<SpamapS> spying on me eh? ;)
<cprofitt> just curious I am not seen the name before :)
<Daviey> worst. spy. ever.
<smoser> freenode-server: SpamapS is a superfly ubuntu super star
<cprofitt> lol
<SpamapS> Seriously tho, people, can we all take a bow for 11.10? Good, bad, ugly, whatever you think, its done.
<smoser> luckily there are things to improve on. ;)
<zul> and now back at the meat grinder :)
<smb> does it blend?
<cprofitt> 11.10 was very good.
<hallyn> silly q
<smoser> mom always said, if you dont have anything nice to say, dont say anything at all.  but i seem to have failed to take that advice.
<SpamapS> smb: +1 for an automated testing framework to see if ubuntu server blends
<zul> numerous times :)
<Daviey> jamespage is all over that!
<smb> Just need a blender big enough. :)
<SpamapS> java blends
<dr3mro> please make ubuntu 12.04 the best linux ever .. overlay scrollbars integration to all apps .. boot speed .. please we need it to be bugless
<jamespage> well I will be once i have sorted out component mismatches :-(
<SpamapS> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ServerTeam Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<Daviey> unity-acsii is on the roadmap.
<jamespage> \o/
 * smb runs
<Ursinha> rofl
<Daviey> ascii*
<SpamapS> Tuesday 2011-10-25 16:00 UTC right here in #ubuntu-meeting
<SpamapS> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 16:30:33 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-18-16.01.moin.txt
<lynxman> nicely done
<Daviey> thanks SpamapS
<Ursinha> thanks SpamapS
<hggdh> SpamapS: in a call right now, can we talk in -- say -- 30 min?
<SpamapS> hggdh: ping me when you're ready
<hggdh> roj
<juancarlospaco> test
<_stink_> yay ubuntu-us-mi!
<MutantTurkey> ubuntu-us-pa REPRESENT.
<MutantTurkey> :x
 * greg-g waves
<_stink_> :D
<itnet7> hey there greg-g !
<greg-g> yo itnet7 ! long time no see!
<itnet7> How're you?
<greg-g> I'm good. In CA now. Working for CC.
<greg-g> how's life in itnet7 land?
 * pleia2 waves
<tp0x45> hello
<snap-l> Hello from ubuntu-us-mi
<tp0x45> ubuntu-me here
<jono> LoCo Council meeting now?
<LogicalDream> Hi all
<MutantTurkey> 4:01, jono. you're late.
<snap-l> jono: that's what my calendar says. :)
<MutantTurkey> :P
<itnet7> jono: it should be starting shortley
<jono> MutantTurkey, :-)
<beuno> marianom, unimix, ^
<jono> cool
<Ursinha> hello from ubuntu-br
<jono> hey itnet7!
<jono> :-)
<Ursinha> :)
<jono> ubuntu-us-ca here :-)
<Ubuntuser> Hi Ursinha ..:P
<snap-l> jono: No fair. ;)
<snap-l> We just say we're rockstars, but jono has to go and be a rockstar
<snap-l> sheesh
<AlanBell> o/
 * snap-l packs up his bags and moves to Toronto
<jono> snap-l, haha
<jono> btw, you know how much I love Ubuntu?
<jjesse> enough to get a tatoo?
<pleia2> hah
<mhall119> echo to listen to Yanni
<jono> we are giving up a Judas Priest support slot so I can be at UDS
<mhall119> enough
<Ursinha> jono, omg
<leogg> hello
<snap-l> jono: Ugh, that's awful
<greg-g> quit
<jono> Judas Priest, Thin Lizzy, and Black Label Society
<snap-l> Rob Halford gives you a disapproving glance.
<snap-l> Well, I can understand not hanging with BLS. ;)
<popey> Hey
<popey> czajkowski is unavailable
<itnet7> Hey there popey
<popey> paultag is afk until 10 past
<popey> and people just turned up and my house!
<popey> I shall school them about Ubuntu meetings!
<itnet7> :-)
<pleia2> hehe
<greg-g> "now see, this is IRC..."
<huats> popey, you might want to call the police the :)
<popey> who else is here? huats itnet7 ...
 * snap-l notes this for next time "Instead of showing up in IRC, show up at popey's house"
<huats> popey, I am here
<jedijf> lol
<popey> heh
<jjesse> snap-l you buying us tickets if we have to support the loco again?
 * popey locks the door
<itnet7> met too, and leogg
 * popey hides behind the sofa
<leogg> I'm here as well
<popey> yay!
<popey> could someone else please chair?
 * popey runs to shove people back outside
<itnet7> I have a vendor here, I can't really chair
<itnet7> leogg huats ?
<huats> if nobody steps up I can, but honnextly if leogg it would be better because I might have a connexio break
<leogg> do we have quorum?
<itnet7> we have 4 here
<huats> we have we are 4
<huats> leogg, can you chair the meeting ?
<itnet7> and paultag should be along soon
<leogg> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 18 20:08:25 2011 UTC.  The chair is leogg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<leogg> hi all!
 * greg-g waves
<leogg> welcome to the loco council meeting
<tp0x45> hi again from ubuntu-me
<leogg> the agenda is over here ---> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncilAgenda
 * unimix waves
<leogg> #topic Ubuntu China reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu China reapproval
<leogg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChinaTeam/ApprovalApplication
<leogg> so, who's here from ubuntu-cn?
<MobileTurkey> next...
<snap-l> It has to be around midnight in China
<snap-l> if not later
<leogg> ok, let's move on
<leogg> #topic Ubuntu Argentina reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Argentina reapproval
<leogg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArgentinaTeam/ApprovalApplication
<leogg> anybody from ubuntu-ar around?
<unimix> leogg: marianom, juancarlospaco and me
<unimix> at least
<leogg> oh, hai there unimix ! :)
<itnet7> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArgentinaTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<unimix> leogg, o/
<leogg> unimix, care to tell us about your team?
<juancarlospaco> test
<unimix> ok, As you can read, we have an intense activity from the last 3 years to now
<beuno> o/
<juancarlospaco> hello friends...
<leogg> juancarlospaco, hola!
<flomincucci> hey juancarlospaco, logg :)
<flomincucci> *leogg
<unimix> the most important events were Ubucon 2010 and the two edition of CISL with gov support
<juancarlospaco> hello flomin
<leogg> flomincucci, o/
<unimix> among others
<leogg> unimix, nice
<leogg> unimix, I didn't see any team reports on the app?
<huats> how do you coordinate your team since argentina is large country ?
<huats> please answer leogg first
<leogg> :)
<huats> any answer ?
<unimix> ok, I have done team reports in irregular basis, but the last months are uo to date
<unimix> s/uo/up
<huats> ok
<huats> unimix, what about my question on the coordination in your team?
<unimix> we have main activities in Buenos Aires and use the mailing list to coordinate and encourage the other to make events in the rest of the country
<huats> ok
<leogg> unimix, I can only fin https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARGENTINA/TeamReports
<leogg> s/fin/find
<huats> leogg, I have found the august/september/october on too
<paultag> sorry I'm late
<unimix> leogg, there are thre months of team reports at least i have done by myself
<unimix> thats right leogg
<unimix> there are some othe reports for 2010, for sure
<leogg> unimix, you should spend some time on reporting, otherwise it's difficult to see what you guys been doing
<leogg> unimix, for example, there's a lot of events in 2009 and 2010, but I don't see much activity in 2011
<_stink_> i have to jet, but i want to make sure i say that i'm a member of ubuntu-us-mi (which is up next) and i am overflowing with wub for ubuntu-us-mi.  please excuse my out of turn wub.
<unimix> ok, leogg, that's my fault cause i'm in charge of that task.
<paultag> _stink_: noted :)
<paultag> _stink_: go bucks!
<leogg> unimix, you should delegate :)
<paultag> leogg++
<_stink_> paultag: i'll just ask Nebraska about that here... :D
<leogg> unimix, there are other active members on your loco?
<unimix> leogg, yeap
<paultag> _stink_: oh, burn! :)
<paultag> unimix: are they here?
<unimix> yes, leogg, five more
<juancarlospaco> o/
<unimix> ubuntu members
<huats> unimix, I think the question of leogg is that they should step up to show us you are not alone...
<unimix> huats, i get the point
<flomincucci> for active members do you mean ubuntu members?
<marianom> hi there
<flomincucci> i'm part of the loco, but still not a ubuntu member
<paultag> all members are encouraged to participate :)
<juancarlospaco> hello im active member of ubuntu-ar loco
<huats> flomincucci, active member in the loco are great !
<leogg> unimix, I think you're an awesome team, but having no recent activity reports doesn't help
<huats> terrific !
<marianom> hi leogg, hi paultag, hi again unimix (hi flomincucci and juancarlospaco)
<paultag> unimix: do you have photos or any sort of documentation of recent events in 2011?
<paultag> marianom: Hiyya!
<malev> hello! unimix is not alone
<leogg> marianom, hey! o/
<huats> that is what we want to "see" : people supporting there team
<unimix> leogg, we have the last month done !
<unimix> paultag, we have a lot of pics, some of them are in the wiki
<paultag> unimix: would you mind linking us to a few events from like 2-3 differente events from 2011 and why they are special?
<marianom> we added a couple of pictures from this year events in the application Iguess
<marianom> let me check
<juancarlospaco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArgentinaTeam/ReApprovalApplication
<juancarlospaco> i see pics there
<paultag> ah right right
<paultag> those look like they're from 2010 from the way it's set up
<unimix> paultag, do you see it ?
<huats> (the link on the agenda is wrong)
<paultag> unimix: I see some photos, but again, nothing from 2011
<paultag> I found them, though
<marianom> unimix, paultag: there are two photos for the nevet36 in august
<paultag> (both of them)
<paultag> marianom: yep, got it
<marianom> the photos for the piratefest were horrible
<marianom> sorry
<paultag> It's OK. I'm ready
<marianom> there is no one you could tell anything
<marianom> I mean there was no way to tell anything from the photos
<leogg> ok, we're ready to vote
<leogg> #voters huats itnet7 paultag popey leogg
<meetingology> Current voters: huats itnet7 leogg paultag popey
<leogg> #vote on reapproval Ubuntu Argentina
<meetingology> Please vote on: on reapproval Ubuntu Argentina
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<paultag> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from paultag
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<paultag> Well done. I like it
<popey> \o/
<leogg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from leogg
<jedijf> nice, congrats
<marianom> great!
<leogg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on reapproval Ubuntu Argentina
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<paultag> 'grats guy! :)
<MobileTurkey> awesome!
<popey> Congratulations Team AR!
<flomincucci> YAY!
<leogg> congrats -ar
<marianom> thanks guys!!!!
<paultag> please do do some team reports for 2011, though
<popey> Keep on rocking!
<flomincucci> Thanks \o/
<malev> wow!!!!! AWESOME!!!!!
<tp0x45> congrats -ar
<unimix> thanks dudes !!
<paultag> and 2012, it's coming up soon :)
<juancarlospaco> woot, amazing!  :)
<leogg> unimix, but you should really start  to do the reports!
<huats> I agreewith paultag
<LogicalDream> +1
<itnet7> I think that all of you have done some really nice work, congrats
<juancarlospaco> thank you people ! :P
<popey> and blogging :D
<paultag> :D
<Ursinha> o/
<marianom> we appreciate your confidence on us
<marianom> we have been working non stop since day one
<paultag> OK, who's up next, we have a long agenda leogg :)
<leogg> #topic Michigan Team reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Michigan Team reapproval
<unimix> paultag, yeah, i get the point about TR :)
<paultag> nice.
<paultag> unimix: :)
<leogg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MichiganTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011
<Ubuntuser> Congrats Argentina! ;)
<marianom> we have a great team and we appreciate the support from the community
<paultag> First, I'd like to say, for the record:
<paultag> Go bucks.
<leogg> michigan team? anybody here?
<brousch> i am here!
 * greg-g waves laggily
<marianom> paultag: +1
<snap-l> Hello there
<leogg> hey guys! welcome!
<paultag> ah, there's craig
<leogg> so, who's going to tell us about your team?
<snap-l> I can speak for our team
<leogg> snap-l, go ahead!
<snap-l> We're comprised of the state of Michigan, with two centers of major activity
<snap-l> Metro Detroit, and West Michigan
<snap-l> West Michigan is headed by brousch
<paultag> nice, decentralized.
<snap-l> We've been active now for a while now
<leogg> very nice indeed
<snap-l> Our team regularly meets on IRC every day, and at least once a month to discuss loco business
<pvl1> hello
<greg-g> we were officially founded way back in 2007
<snap-l> mostly we socialize on IRC, but have been known to discuss Ubuntu from time to time. ;)
<paultag> :)
<leogg> snap-l, what would you say is your teams biggest strenght?
<snap-l> We originated the Jam concept
<snap-l> leogg: I'd say our ability to group together and organize
<snap-l> and also to innovate new ideas
<greg-g> and cross group work (eg: we work well with many other linux-focused groups in the area)
<snap-l> greg-g: ++
<leogg> nice!
<leogg> ok, let's vote then!
<paultag> I think we're all good to vote
<snap-l> We work very closely with our local LUG
<leogg> #voters huats itnet7 paultag popey leogg
<meetingology> Current voters: huats itnet7 leogg paultag popey
<paultag> +1
<popey> +1
<paultag> no question at all
<itnet7> +1
<popey> great work
<paultag> Oh crap
<huats> +1
<leogg> easy guys!!
<leogg> hehe
<paultag> we need leogg to kick it off
<snap-l> Thank you
<popey> oops
<leogg> #vote on Michigan team re-approval
<meetingology> Please vote on: on Michigan team re-approval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<popey> :D
<popey> =1
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<paultag> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from paultag
<popey> bah!
<paultag> well done, keep it up guys :)
<leogg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from leogg
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<popey> sorry, got excited :D
<leogg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on Michigan team re-approval
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<itnet7> me too!!
<paultag> well done -mi!
<popey> \o/
<itnet7> Great Job!!
<tp0x45> congrats Michigan!
<jedijf> conrgrats
<leogg> congrats guys! really amazing work!
<Ubuntuser> +1
<brousch> yeah us!
<greg-g> thanks all
<jono> congrats snap-l
<leogg> #topic Pennsylvania Team reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Pennsylvania Team reapproval
<paultag> Alright, who's here from -penn?
 * jedijf pulls over
<MobileTurkey> I am from PA
<jedijf> i am here
<anduril> Im here
<leogg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PennsylvaniaTeam/ReapprovalApplication
<MobileTurkey> pvl1 is also here
<MobileTurkey> and pleia2
<leogg> welcome guys!
<pvl1> +1
<MobileTurkey> thanks :)
<leogg> please talk a bit about your team
<jedijf> Ubuntu PA is great! Philly area is active.
<jedijf> irc is active. Forums and mailing list have slowed.
<jedijf> This is probably more to the success of Ubuntu in general;
<jedijf> less issues/problems and questions.
<MobileTurkey> we do a fair bit of troubleshooting on the IRC
<pvl1> yeah the irc is definetly more active than the forum
<jedijf> Getting the other areas of PA involved in meatspace stuff
<jedijf> is an ongoing goal.
<MobileTurkey> just general pointers and tips
<pvl1> we talk a lot about technologies as well. lots of interesting stuff
<jedijf> I *love* the unity debate, even if solely for the passion that
<jedijf> it has brought back. There is no bad press.
<popey> http://ubuntupennsylvania.org/ <- should that work?
<MobileTurkey> many seasoned vets as well as some new comers
<MobileTurkey> yes
<MobileTurkey> that is our website! :D
<popey> doesnt work here
<anduril> loads here
<MobileTurkey> loads here as well
<itnet7> Loads for me popey
<pvl1> i see it
<popey> bah
<popey> my stupid isp
<popey> nvm
<jedijf> popey just imagine greatness
 * popey imagines ponies
<itnet7> :-)
<leogg> jedijf, I have to say that your app is extremely difficult to read, sorry...
<MobileTurkey> popey: here is google cache http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:UIWEWyreZPQJ:ubuntupennsylvania.org/+ubuntu+pa&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
<popey> leogg: agreed
<paultag> leogg: yeah, totally
<itnet7> ponies on trampolines
<paultag> jedijf: if I might ask, how many people worked on the app?
<jedijf> leogg: i was trying to make it easy to reference the events
<paultag> just as a sidenode
<jedijf> just me
<paultag> OK
<jedijf> rather than have vague references and then go to a timeline
<MobileTurkey> jedijf is our fearless leader...
<paultag> :)
<MobileTurkey> :P
<jedijf> so each reference would show corresponding data
<paultag> popey: itnet7: huats: anything else?
<jedijf> and....
<itnet7> No, I'm ready
<paultag> we have a few more minutes
<paultag> and 3 more teams, I think I have an idea
<jedijf> In the past we were spoiled by having pleia2 do the blogging, photographing,
<jedijf> and wiki administriva. That is an area that I would like to delegate.
<paultag> jedijf: I tink looking into that would be wise
<paultag> popey: huats: ?
<pleia2> we've been working over the past few months to get all the administrative keys moved over to active, local members (since a bunch of us moved away)
<leogg> paultag, +1
<huats> nothing more
<paultag> leogg: let's hit this. We're good
<leogg> #voters huats itnet7 paultag popey leogg
<meetingology> Current voters: huats itnet7 leogg paultag popey
<paultag> we can't keep waiting if we have a queue
<leogg> #vote on ubuntu-penn reapproval
<meetingology> Please vote on: on ubuntu-penn reapproval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<paultag> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from paultag
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<leogg> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from leogg
<paultag> *BUT* I'd like to qualify that - please do revamp some of the administrative things jedijf
<paultag> jedijf: your app is a bit of a mess, but I can see the team it's self is stable
<pvl1> +
<leogg> huats, ?
<paultag> jedijf: I think your goal on the next cycle might be getting some people to support you, because you're really working hard
<huats> +1
<jedijf> paultag: ok
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<leogg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on ubuntu-penn reapproval
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:1
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> congrats pennsylvania :)
<MobileTurkey> dance party...
<tp0x45> congrats - pennsylvania
<paultag> :D
<pangolin> YAY PA!
<paultag> 'grats PA :)
<leogg> #topic Montenegro team approval application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Montenegro team approval application
<itnet7> good work!!
<itnet7> Congrats!
<leogg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MontenegroTeam/ApprovalApplication
<paultag> We're going to run over, who's got the meeting room after this, and can we get a few more minutes?
<tp0x45> we hope so :)
<MobileTurkey> does it look bad if the whole ubuntu pa team leaves the meeting?
<leogg> anyone from Montenegro?
<Ursinha> please please please
<paultag> MobileTurkey: nah :)
<magio081> here
<popey> I can't stick around long
<LogicalDream> Im form ubuntu-me
<MobileTurkey> paultag: well then, thank you and keep up the good work
<paultag> popey: me neither
<jedijf> thanks
<paultag> MobileTurkey: back atcha
<tp0x45> I am from ubuntu-me team
<leogg> hey magio081 LogicalDream !
<leogg> tp0x45, o/
<tp0x45> hi all
<LogicalDream> Hi all
<paultag> ok, ubuntu-me - who's the contact?
<leogg> so, care to tell us about your team?
<tp0x45> I can be a contact for today: Tomo POpovic
<tp0x45> we are a team coming from a small but proud nation of 600,000
<tp0x45> we unofficially exist since 2007 with on and off activities with collaboration with other teams in the region
<tp0x45> since 2009 we formed a Facebook (I know) group that has been fairly active
<tp0x45> It has over 100 members now
<paultag> Cool. How would you use the new-found approved status (if granted it) to help the end-goal of promoting Ubuntu?
<gib> MIchigan team +1
<tp0x45> we see it as a big motivational boost, as we just recently started the website, forum, planet, etc
<paultag> gib: jcastro: a bit late, they already got the +1 :)
<tp0x45> we are hoping to organize more events such as our recent release party the other day
<tp0x45> we established a good relationship with university of Montenegro
<tp0x45> and it just so happened that one of the major local newspaper reported on the event and team activity today
<tp0x45> http://www.vijesti.me/vijesti/u-podgorici-prezentovana-nova-verzija-ubuntu-os-clanak-42896
<gib> Had to run an errand for the wife.
<paultag> gib: np :)
<paultag> tp0x45: that's really cool!
<leogg> tp0x45, very nice!
<tp0x45> we have lots of very young mombers and I think would be very cool to have them get more involved and see that our efforts are being recognized
<tp0x45> we are also trying to educate facebook users to use our forum, site, IRC, etc...
<paultag> tp0x45: this sounds really cool :)
<tp0x45> the activities in last 3-4 months were really result of a team work ... and I hope with the approval of the team we will get even more people that were active in past to reactivate again :)
<LogicalDream> from 2006 when Montenegro got back Independent status , This is the first time that we are officaly applaing for approval
<leogg> tp0x45, you've done a great job so far, but I think you need a little more experience
<paultag> +1
<paultag> I think the work so far is absolutely monumental
<tp0x45> thanks paultag :)
<LogicalDream> Tnx
<paultag> OK. I'm ready to vote
<huats> The thing is that even with a terrific work like your we like to have an activity on a wide period of time
<huats> ready to vote too
<popey> ya
<leogg> #voters huats itnet7 paultag popey leogg
<meetingology> Current voters: huats itnet7 leogg paultag popey
<tp0x45> well the activity spread back to 2007, we hope to get  more people involved
<leogg> #vote on Montenegro LoCo approval
<meetingology> Please vote on: on Montenegro LoCo approval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<leogg> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from leogg
<paultag> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from paultag
<popey> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from popey
<itnet7> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from itnet7
 * paultag pokes huats 
<popey> I agree with paultag, I'd like to see a few more months of building the team, and writing up events first
<popey> perhaps come back at the start of the new year?
<LogicalDream> We will defenetly :)
<huats> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from huats
<tp0x45> OK, thanks :)
<LogicalDream> but Thanks for support anyway
<leogg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on Montenegro LoCo approval
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:5
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<paultag> don't take this the wrong way
<paultag> because your work is huge
<paultag> and to get in a newspaper is massive
<paultag> so keep it up
<paultag> but I'd personally like to see a bit more activity over a few more months
<popey> completely agree
<leogg> tp0x45, LogicalDream, great job! and we really hope to see you guys in a couple of months
<itnet7> tp0x45: you all have done great work so far looking forward to the next time you apply
<paultag> (this was *not* a -1)
<LogicalDream> Thank You all !
<leogg> #topic Ubuntu Brasil reapproval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Brasil reapproval
<tp0x45> thanks!
<paultag> Ursinha: you're on!
 * Ursinha takes the stage along with Andre_Gondim and Ubuntuser
<Ursinha> hello #ubuntu-meeting
<leogg> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrazilianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2011
<paultag> howdy!
<Ursinha> :)
<paultag> thanks again, tp0x45!
<Andre_Gondim> hi
<leogg> LogicalDream, tp0x45, thank you!
<Ubuntuser> Hi!
<leogg> hi guys!
<tp0x45> thank you for good feedback!
<paultag> let's do this - we're 6 minutes over :)
<leogg> ubuntu-br, the stage is yours!
<Ursinha> all right
<leogg> tp0x45, no problem... just ping us if you need anything
<Ursinha> Brazil is a *HUGE* country, with 26 states plus the capital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_Brazil :))
<Ursinha> we are an active Ubuntu community since 2005, and we've been working really hard since last approval to find a way to coordinate and organize all of these people
<paultag> On the Ubuntu Brazilian Users team on Launchpad we have more than 1431 members, which all of those have signed the Ubuntu Code of Conduct.
<paultag> Wow, how do you enforce that?
<popey> wow
<popey> just. wow.
<paultag> did you guys translate it? That's really impressive
<Ursinha> paultag, by having a process that asks users to do that
<Ursinha> we check pending requests and email them
<Ursinha> asking them to do so
<paultag> wow
<Ursinha> let me find you the link
<paultag> Ursinha: Do you help them set up a GPG key if they don't know how to use it?
<Ursinha> paultag, yes
<Andre_Gondim> paultag, yeah, we have a default mail to learn it
<Ursinha> there's a canned email to send them
<Ubuntuser> and wiki too
<Ursinha> and eventually we have some requests
<leogg> yep, really impressive
<Ursinha> paultag, http://wiki.ubuntu-br.org/ComoParticipar/MembrosPendentes
<paultag> gotcha
<Ursinha> this is the page
<paultag> thanks Ursinha :)
<Ursinha> :)
<leogg> Ursinha, I don't see any team reports?
<Ursinha> leogg, no, because we haven't got there yet
<Ursinha> leogg, it's a LOT of people and teams, we're studying how to make all of them talk in a more effective manner
<Ursinha> without a lot of noise
<Ursinha> there are 26 groups
<Ursinha> we consider splitting them per brazilian regions, so we'd have like five teams, that coordinate each one its region
<paultag> humm
<leogg> right
<Ursinha> this is a *HUGE* problem and it's basically the main topic discussed for improvements
<popey> yeah, can't be easy with such a giant country
<Ursinha> we have the local teams mailing lists and the national support one
<Ursinha> we announce things in the national one, things that we carry from the regional lists
<Ubuntuser> Facebook and Twitter too.. ;)
<Ursinha> also, Andre_Gondim does an awesome job blogging about the events
<paultag> and translations (from what I read) - which is mighty awesome work
<Andre_Gondim> :D
<leogg> really nice work!
<Ursinha> paultag, yeah, he's awesome like that :)
<paultag> :)
<Ursinha> last years we worked on reviving the existing working groups, and creating new ones, such as the ubuntu-br-artwork and ubuntu-br-dev teams. Still not much activity on them, but we're working on it
<Ursinha> we wrote "first steps" for people that want to participate with translations or docs or any other teams
<Ursinha> so it's easier to coordinate across the country
<huats> Ursinha, coordination on such a big country is clearly a key I think
<Ursinha> yeah, I was interested in the answer when you asked argentina :)
<Ursinha> because it's tricky
<Ursinha> but we're working on it
<Ursinha> baby steps, but we're WAY better than a few years ago, that's for sure
<leogg> ok, let's vote then!
<leogg> #voters huats itnet7 paultag popey leogg
<meetingology> Current voters: huats itnet7 leogg paultag popey
<leogg> #vote on Ubuntu Brasil reapproval
<meetingology> Please vote on: on Ubuntu Brasil reapproval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<popey> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from popey
<paultag> +1
<huats> :)1
<meetingology> +1 received from paultag
<leogg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from leogg
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<paultag> crazy easy for me
<popey> awesome work in difficult circumstances
<huats> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<Ursinha> thanks popey
<leogg> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: on Ubuntu Brasil reapproval
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Andre_Gondim> Ã© nÃ³is que voa
<paultag> keep up the work - and do try to work out the issues with team reports
<Ubuntuser> Thanks guys
<popey> congratulations
<paultag> I know it's not easy
<itnet7> Great work!!
<Ursinha> Andre_Gondim, o/
<leogg> congrats guys! this was really easy!
<Andre_Gondim> Ursinha, \o
<Ursinha> thanks all
<Ursinha> :)
<Andre_Gondim> thank you all
<Ubuntuser> Ursinha, Andre_Gondim \o/
<leogg> thank you everybody for coming!
<leogg> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 21:16:07 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-18-20.08.moin.txt
<Ursinha> thanks all for staying late for us!
<popey> thanks for chairing leogg
<leogg> popey, np :)
<itnet7> Thanks leogg !!
<paultag> thanks leogg :)
<paultag> all of you rock
<paultag> so much
<paultag> I love you all dearly
<paultag> thanks for coming out!
<leogg> itnet7, paultag :)
<jedijf> thank you all for being in service
<jedijf> thank you all for being in service
<snap-l> Thank you, everyone!
<jedijf> twice!
<itnet7> ;-)
<jedijf> potholes....
<snap-l> You're IRCing while dricing?
<snap-l> driving?
<jedijf> always
 * paultag facepalms
<snap-l> And I thought texting while driving was bad enough
<jedijf> now *that's* dangerous
<snap-l> trying to set IRC modes on an iPhone keyboard while driving would put me in a ditch
<LogicalDream> Good Night to all , Greetings from Montenegro
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-19
<mvo> hello
 * stgraber waves
<ev> hi
<jhunt> o/
 * slangasek waves
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Wed Oct 19 15:00:41 2011 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<slangasek> [TOPIC] lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e cjwatson barry doko stgraber jhunt mvo ev bdmurray slangasek)
<slangasek> cjwatson mvo slangasek ev barry doko jhunt stgraber bdmurray
<slangasek> cjwatson: you win!
<cjwatson> opening precise; lots of syncs, merges, NEW processing, build fixes, ...
<cjwatson> main needs-merge graph looks really good so far, thanks to everyone who's been working on that
<cjwatson> concentrating on the libjpeg transition, since that's big and caused several failures; also trying to keep on top of Pre-Depends additions for xz-compressed binary packages
<cjwatson> looking into optimising cron.germinate; seems to be at least 7 minutes of room for improvement here; LP a bit non-committal on whether this would let us run the publisher */30, but might be possible
<cjwatson> further optimisation of cdimage mirroring; now under 10 seconds for a no-op sync, and down to sensible times when we actually have to mirror anything
<cjwatson> +1 maintenance team proposal
<cjwatson> ..
<mvo> apt: merge/upload new version to precise, work on cherrypick for  #868977, #672314 to oneiric-proposed
<mvo> software-center: add missing recommends on lzma for bug #868188, planning work, debug/fix steel storm2 desktop file bug, work on review languages and sorting, work on unicode_literals version (lp:~mvo/software-center/unicode_literals) to fight the str/unicode mess, add workaround for the white pixel border bug, look into startup time regression, commit one trivial workaround to trunk
<mvo> update-manager: update for precise, SRU work, add postgresql to the removal blacklist and reupload (#871893), fix screensaver poke, fix crash when packages get downgraded (#873411, comment #8), honor dpkg desired  install state (dpkg --set-selection state), some work on #859373, mostly diangose, cyhermox is the man
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 868188 in software-center (Ubuntu) ""Internal Error ...google-chrome-stable_current_amd64.deb could not be opened"" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/868188
<mvo> apt-btrfs-snapshot: fix another issue with incorrect fstab lines (#873411, comment #7)
<mvo> cups: test/upload fix for the upgrade issue #874835
<mvo> misc: apt-clone, unattended-upgrades updates
<mvo> review/sponsor compizconfig-backend-gconf upload for #207065 (yes, really low bugnumber)
<mvo> apturl: debug/fix multiarch pkgname parsing (LP: #872146)
<mvo> update-notifier: upload new -prposed version with fix for overlong menu text (#871691)
<mvo> EOF
<slangasek> working on getting upstart into a state that it can be used in Debian (groundwork in sysvinit and lsb-base); maybe we can get a few more packages turned into syncs that way...
<slangasek> working through my own list of merges for precise
<slangasek> broke ia32-libs in precise - it'll fix itself when everything is multiarched
<slangasek> tracking various SRUs for oneiric (bug #874130, bug #871083, et al)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 874130 in krb5 (Ubuntu Precise) "Canonicalize fallback only works for different realm (MITKRB RT #6917)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874130
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 871083 in pam (Ubuntu Oneiric) "package libpam-modules 1.1.3-2ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: ErrorMessage: './usr/share/man/man8/pam_shells.8.gz' is different from the same file on the system" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/871083
<slangasek> EOF
<ev>  - Release week sprinting.
<ev> - Fixed some interesting bugs in ubiquity found during smoke testing and
<ev>   pushed out a new version into Precise.
<ev> - Chat with mvo on downloading external resources in dpkg (flash,
<ev>   msttcorefonts), and queueing package installations in
<ev>   software-center/update-manager (language packs at install).
<ev> - Meeting with Kate to discuss her requirements for the crash database and
<ev>   metrics.
<ev> - Post-release ubiquity bug triage.
<ev>   - Still lots of disk errors. Wubi will help here, but I wonder if we should
<ev>     start looking for squashfs errors in syslog or if there's a better API for
<ev>     this.
<ev> - Wrote Precise blueprints for uploading to trunk and rdepends testing.
<ev> - Created USB disks for the Ubuntu Shop and wrote up checksumming instructions
<ev>   for the supplier, given Robbie's recent disaster.
<ev> - Investigated how and where we're using the gstreamer automatic codec
<ev>   installation for Christian.
<ev> - Started researching Cassandra and other bits and pieces for crash and
<ev>   metrics.
<ev> - Wrote a test for ubiquity to verify that we have a completely translated
<ev>   interface.  Annoyingly this requires a whitelist for a small set of widgets
<ev>   that we translate on the fly, as the page they're associated with is run.
<mvo> ev: I would love to hear more about the verify that the interface is translated test, I want this too for s-c :)
<slangasek> glad to see that NM regression fixed so quickly in SRU
<slangasek> s/regression/mid-upgrade breakage/
<ev> so then it didn't get cut off?
<cjwatson> translated or translateable?
<cjwatson> IYSWIM
<ev> translated - it overrides translate_widget adn does the lookups itself
<mvo> I assume you use a fake language like "mirror" or something that can be "auto-translated"? or how does it work?
<cjwatson> I'd call that translateable I think, but OK, good :)
<ev> err yes
<ev> indeed
<barry> i often use a fake 'rot13' language for stuff like that :)
<mvo> haha
<mvo> nice as well
<slangasek> detection of missing translations - very nice :)
<barry> mvo: that's what they speak in Feedonia
<barry> er, Freedonia
<slangasek> barry: you're up
<barry> ah, sorry didn't see ev's "done"
<barry> syncs, merges, blueprints; investigated didrocks i18n crasher bug & wrote blog post; review rfc 6377; pypi testing experiment & TIP mailing list post; bug 813146 debugging; done.
<barry>  
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 813146 in linux (Ubuntu Precise) "kernel panic when running Python test suite on ecryptfs" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/813146
<ev> slangasek: it kept biting me (and writing the test even found one more missing one, yay)
<slangasek> ev: right, good demonstration of the value of automatic testing :)
<ev> :)
<barry> slangasek: one nice thing to the pypi testing work is that a few other related projects have come out of the woodwork.  we're discussing merging/collaboration
<ev> pypants?
<slangasek> barry: great!
<barry> ev: those folks haven't spoken up, but pyti is one and pycheeseshop is another
<ev> cool
<barry> (pyti being a gsoc2011 project)
<barry> (i'm done btw)
<doko> - precise opening with some initial changes
<doko> - fix ARM libobjc and libjava bootstrap failures on GCC trunk
<doko> - work on component-mismatches, pester some people, fixed -perl packages
<doko> - some MIRs
<doko> - syncs and merges
<doko> done
<jhunt> In London last week for sprint. Spent a lot of time working on bug
<jhunt> 849414 / bug 553745. Still unable to create. Reason this problem "comes
<jhunt> and goes" I think is due to us switching off apport post release. I've
<jhunt> requested users with the problem re-enable and send us some logs if they
<jhunt> can grab one. Now switched back to Upstart. I now understand the
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 553745 in plymouth (Ubuntu Maverick) "plymouthd crashed with SIGSEGV in ply_event_loop_process_pending_events()" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/553745
<jhunt> TEST_ALLOC_FAIL issue I was seeing (TEST_ALLOC_FAIL is an evil but very
<jhunt> useful invention). Currently going through Upstart job logging test code
<jhunt> and enabling TEST_ALLOC_FAIL for it (this is slow as you need to track
<jhunt> each alloc call and the logger has various failure paths that vary the
<jhunt> number of alloc calls). Plan: finish Upstart tests and get this feature
<jhunt> into Precise "real soon now", get NIH multi-arched (started with
<jhunt> stgraber last week). Out this Friday. Wednesday Wish: that someone would
<jhunt> fix bug 861268 :)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 861268 in xorg (Ubuntu) "text corruption in terminals (xterm, urxvt) and emacs" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/861268
<jhunt> â¯
<stgraber> - Was in London last week for the release sprint, testing/breaking/fixing the world
<stgraber> - Took Monday off
<stgraber> - Started looking at bug 876829
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 876829 in ifupdown (Ubuntu Precise) "Oneiric's ifupdown breaks ip aliases" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/876829
<stgraber> - Registered a few specs for UDS, still quite a few more to discuss and register
<stgraber> - Spent a bit of time talking about app isolation (arkose, apparmor, arb-wrapper, ...)
<stgraber> - Got my first Precise container running
<stgraber> - Started discussing what's needed to make Edubuntu 12.04 an LTS release
<stgraber> - TODO
<stgraber>  - Patch pilot this afternoon
<stgraber>  - Go through the merges where I'm touched-it-last and hopefully grab a few from Colin's list
<stgraber>  - Initial upload of ltsp and ldm in Precise so we can do some work on it at the LTSP hackfest next week (as the Debian maintainer will also be there)
<stgraber>  - More pre-UDS planning (ISO tracker, recovery mode, local DNS resolver by default, Edubuntu, ...)
<stgraber>  - Publish the automated IPv6 testing and get it running on Precise. Prepare a short demo for the testing in Ubuntu event at UDS.
<stgraber>  - See how I can help James getting libnih ported to multi-arch so we can get non-x86 containers running on x86 hardware
<stgraber>  - Try to spend some time on the ARB queue, we have quite a few apps in there that need packaging/review
<barry> jhunt: nice "done" character :)
<stgraber> (done)
<slangasek> doko: nice job with the MIRs; components-mismatches looks much better than the flurry of post-opening emails would have suggested
<bdmurray> reassignment of no package apport-bug reports to the correct package
<bdmurray> wrote a bug bot function to take care of these going forward
<bdmurray> descrption based no package assignment testing
<bdmurray> bug bot fix for private people and patch subscription
<bdmurray> wrote and uploaded and apport-pacakge hook for synaptic
<bdmurray> modified cheese apport package hook to file bugs about linux (LP: #793950)
<bdmurray> data visualization brainstorming
<bdmurray> fixing of bug stats scripts to take into account Incomplete changes
<bdmurray> fixing bugstats-complete on cranberry to count private bugs
<bdmurray> research into flashplugin-downloader bug 870281 and out of date mirrors
<bdmurray> wrote a bugpattern for flashplugin bug 870643
<bdmurray> wrote a bugpattern for 873397 (ubiquity adobe acrobat and archive.canonical.com)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 870281 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu Oneiric) "installer crash when user choose to install additional software: http://archive.canonical.com/pool/partner/a/adobe-flashplugin/adobe-flashplugin_10.3.183.10.orig.tar.gz doesn't exist" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/870281
<bdmurray> sru of bug fix for bug 207065 for Lucid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 870643 in flashplugin-nonfree (Ubuntu) "package flashplugin-downloader 11.0.1.152ubuntu1 failed to install/upgrade: wget: unable to resolve host address `archive.canonical.com'" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/870643
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 207065 in compizconfig-backend-gconf (Ubuntu Lucid) "Bad Compiz Bindings Bug" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/207065
<jhunt> barry: âº
<bdmurray> ubiquity bug cleanup of install failures due to media errors on hard disks (not just cd drives)
<bdmurray> wrote a udd query for ubuntu bug reports with the same bug watch
<bdmurray> done
<slangasek> 861268 - eep
<cjwatson> slangasek: not to minimise doko's work, certainly, though some of the component-mismatches stuff was because I'd been a bit too hasty in telling it to look at armhf
<slangasek> cjwatson: ah
<cjwatson> turning that back off avoided some of the insanity, after doko pointed it out to me earlier today
<doko> well, still ~30 -perl left, and ~25 -java (resolved by jamespage)
<slangasek> bdmurray: could we have http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-next-milestone-important-bug-tasks.html pointed at oneiric-updates for a bit?
<doko> but it's indeed understandable again
<doko> people really should get an email, when a package enters into dep-wait
<bdmurray> slangasek: sure
<cjwatson> doko: are you dealing with promotions as you go along, or should I be watching the mir-track list?
<slangasek> bdmurray: thanks!
<slangasek> doko: does that not happen?  I thought it did
<doko> cjwatson, yes doint so
<doko> slangasek, did you see one for your cron merge? ;-P
<cjwatson> doko: great, thanks
<slangasek> doko: I saw mail for it, but that might be just because I receive the component-mismatches diffs! :D
<doko> ahh, I don't get those
<slangasek> I'll MIR that soon, fwiw
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Precise blueprints
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Precise blueprints
<slangasek> (not to be confused with "precise blueprints")
<slangasek> public service announcement... please get blueprints filed by the end of this week, so we can get them on the UDS schedule in time to let the schedule *settle*
<slangasek> any questions? :)
 * mvo nods
<ev> slangasek: I've sent you an email about that
<slangasek> ev: will reply right after the meeting
<ev> cheers
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Bugs
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
<slangasek> bdmurray: any interesting bugs popping out of the woodwork post-release?
<bdmurray> slangasek: this report has quite a few on it http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/foundations-bugs/foundations-bugs-recently-important-bug-tasks.html
<bdmurray> bug 836378 for example
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836378 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Oneiric upgrade, boot hangs at error: symbol not found: grub_divmod64_full" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836378
<slangasek> hmm, bug #874518 looks like a duplicate of bug #874130
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 874518 in openssh (Ubuntu) "ssh with kerberos fails after upgrade to 11.10" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874518
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 874130 in krb5 (Ubuntu Precise) "Canonicalize fallback only works for different realm (MITKRB RT #6917)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/874130
<cjwatson> bdmurray: yet another case of misconfiguration, not new
<slangasek> cjwatson: you have a bucket for that bug then?
<cjwatson> basically *every* "symbol not found" error in grub2 is a local misconfiguration
<cjwatson> I'll reply to it
<slangasek> heh, I guess those would be hard to bugpattern
<cjwatson> yep
<slangasek> since they tend to be filed by hand
<bdmurray> well the bug bot could do something though
<slangasek> cjwatson: can you work with bdmurray to figure out what the bug bot should do?
<slangasek> bug #877194 looks like a system that hasn't been properly upgraded to natty in the first place..
<cjwatson> I guess
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 877194 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "do-release-upgrade in console to oneric fails: SystemError: E:Could not perform immediate configuration on 'multiarch-support'. Please see man 5 apt.conf under APT::Immediate-Configure for details. (2)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/877194
<cjwatson> I don't know if I'm comfortable with them being auto-closed though
<cjwatson> I think people would prefer to interact with a human here rather than a bot
<slangasek> cjwatson: your call
<ev> just auto mark them as incomplete, then it doesn't have to be on your conscious when they're closed ;)
<bdmurray> cjwatson: I don't think closing is necessary but giving people some direction to head in or tagging the bugs so they can be dealt with in batches may help
<cjwatson> how about tagging any grub2 bug whose summary matches "symbol not found" as grub-modules-skew, then?
<bdmurray> that sounds fine to me
<cjwatson> and maybe ask for the output of 'sudo debconf-show grub-pc | grep install_devices'
<slangasek> what about bugs on grub1 (which is where this one was filed)?
<slangasek> there's also bug #858122 which is a major pain for upgrading... we really need to deploy some workaround for these users that have had insserv run on their systems against their will.  someone want to volunteer to look at that?
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 858122 in Release Notes for Ubuntu "incomplete migration to /run (shutdown script order has been demolished)" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/858122
<bdmurray> slangasek: might there be duplicates of that bug lying around / hidden elsewhere?
<slangasek> certainly
<bdmurray> and what would I look for?
<slangasek> probably not easily autodetectable
<cjwatson> grub(1)> yes
<cjwatson> I've followed up to bug 836378 now with detailed explanation/directions, and marked it invalid
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 836378 in grub2 (Ubuntu) "Oneiric upgrade, boot hangs at error: symbol not found: grub_divmod64_full" [High,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/836378
<mvo> I haven't looked at all yet into 858122 but if noone else will I can give it a go
<slangasek> bdmurray: well, if you can figure out a search term that matches "user rebooted after upgrade and their system didn't come up because dbus was missing and replacing /var/run with a symlink fixed it"... :)
<slangasek> mvo: appreciate it!
<slangasek> mvo: fwiw, I think the most appropriate workaround here is probably to shove the standard symlinks in /etc/rc6.d back to their intended sequence numbers by hand on upgrade
<slangasek> so that, y'know, sendsigs, unmount, and reboot all happen in the intended order :P
<slangasek> if we fix *that*, the migrate-on-shutdown code should Just Work
<mvo> slangasek: heh,  that makes sense :)
<slangasek> we also need some fix for insserv itself breaking things, though :/
<slangasek> not sure what kind of fix would be SRUable there... I almost want to move insserv off the path, or make it a no-op
<slangasek> mvo: anyway, you can have a look and see what you think :)
<slangasek> any other bugs that aren't getting the attention they need?
<bdmurray> not that I know of
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> who knows a joke?
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Wed Oct 19 15:46:39 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-19-15.00.moin.txt
<slangasek> ok, no jokes - thanks :)
<mvo> thanks!
<bdmurray> I was just looking one up
<barry> thanks! :)
<stgraber> thanks!
<doko> thanks
<bdmurray> Why did the ghost join the team?
<mvo> ?
<bdmurray> Because they needed spirit.
<mvo> heh :)
<cjwatson> ~trout bdmurray
<nuclearbob> hggdh: you here?
<Ursinha> did I miss the meeting earlier today or are we skipping it?
<bkerensa> =o
<nuclearbob> I've been here for a bit and it hasn't started yet
<nuclearbob> so maybe we're reconvening next week
<bkerensa> idk
<bkerensa> it is quiet in here
<nuclearbob> I can chair if we've got people here for it
<nuclearbob> I know I saw Ursinha, and I thought pedro_ logged in
<nuclearbob> have we got gema, jibel, or charlie-tca ?
<Ursinha> it's half past the meeting time, I guess they're all busy
<Ursinha> I asked on #ubuntu-quality channel and got no reply...
<nuclearbob> all right, we can reconvene next week
<nuclearbob> I think gema's out today anyhow
<nuclearbob> and everybody else must be occupied
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-20
<ogra_> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 20 15:00:33 2011 UTC.  The chair is ogra_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
 * davidm is drinking coffee and needs food
 * davidm waves at ogra_ 
 * ogra_ waves back
 * NCommander wants to shoot the sun
 * GrueMaster raises a coffee mug.
<ogra_> so seems we have no announcement or wikipage ... i wont make one up right now ... and i dont think we need the agenda actually
 * ppisati has coffee too
 * ogra_ has coffee too now
<davidm> ogra_, somewhere in todays meeting we need to deicide if we are having a meeting in 2 weeks (during UDS), I personally vote not to.
<ogra_>  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/PBlueprintIdeasseems to look good, apart from achiang everyone has registered their specs
<davidm> so everyone has plenty of notice if we are not doing it
<ogra_> do we miss any specs ?
<ogra_> davidm, ack
<GrueMaster> Historically we never have a meeting during UDS.
<ogra_> is there anything urgent that needs to be added to the spec list, anything we forgot or so ?
<ogra_> if not, lets move on :)
<NCommander> With specs, I got notification that they'r ein the wrong track
 * davidm is looking at the spec idea page
<NCommander> I will be moving all specs from 'arm' to 'ubuntu-arm'
<janimo> sorry for being late
<ogra_> NCommander, err, i was told our track is called arm
<ogra_> janimo, you didnt miss much
<ogra_> we look at the blueprint ideas once more
<NCommander> ogra_: I was poked by james_w ithas to be ubuntu-arm
<ogra_> NCommander, weird
<ogra_> k
<GrueMaster> And ubuntu-arm seems redundant for the Ubuntu Developers Summit.
<ogra_> so we have to rename all specs
<NCommander> ogra_: I'll bedoing so as soonas the meeting is over
<ogra_> even though i would like to hear that from a second authority
<james_w> or the track could be renamed
<ogra_> davidm, ?? ^^^
<janimo> maybe ubuntu arm was chosen to distinguish from linaro-arm?
<NCommander> james_w: if you could rename the track to 'arm' I think that would save us a lot of work :-)
<ogra_> james_w, well, "arm" was what was announced to us
<ogra_> so getting that would be good :)
<NCommander> as well as "arm" being historically what we had when we had the ARM track
<ogra_> that too
<james_w> I'm just the messenger, I'm not going to rename anything
<NCommander> james_w: who's the person to talk to on renaming the track?
<davidm> track can't be renamed
<ogra_> well, if there is any compellinmg reason for us to invest 1h of work to rename them all vs someone on lp flicking a switch to rename the track, i think i'll go for the track renaming ;)
<ogra_> davidm, so we have to rename all specs now ?
<davidm> with Linaro having a connect there it must be clear the track is ubuntu
<ogra_> ah
<davidm> ogra_, yep
 * ogra_ sighs ...
<ogra_> [action] everyone rename their specs
<meetingology> ACTION: everyone rename their specs
<ogra_> :)
<janimo> having few specs pays off in unexpected ways
 * GrueMaster is exempt.  other-p-qa-baremetal-testing 
<ogra_> GrueMaster, well, might be redundantz ... but after i have being told "i go to that sprint because of linaro and i give a sh*t on ubuntu and everything around it" by a linrao employee i think its important so they dont get accidentially into an ubuntu BOF
<ogra_> :P
<ogra_> janimo, do you have any ideas that are missing from the BP idea page you want to add ?
<ogra_> now would be the time ;)
<janimo> just the livecd evaluation
<ogra_> ah, yeah, add that 8and a registered spec) please
<janimo> unless we added that a few days ago
<ogra_> i didnt
<janimo> ok
<ogra_> i dont think we need to talk about images or so today ...
<janimo> [action] janimo to add live-installer spec
<meetingology> ACTION: janimo to add live-installer spec
<ogra_> so lets look at something that makes sense :)
<ogra_> MOM !
<ogra_> everyone please pick some merges from mom :)
<infinity> Oh, speaking of specs...
<janimo> you mean merges from debian?
<infinity> NCommander: You might want to fix https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~infinity for me.
<infinity> (Hint: that's not me)
<ogra_> infinity, i registered yours, please adjust naming
<ogra_> janimo, right, mom.ubuntu.com
<ogra_> and friends
<NCommander> fixed
<ogra_> the parent party so to say :)
<janimo> infinity, are you being cyber-celeb-squatted?
<ogra_> would be good if each of us could do a few merges before UDS
 * ogra_ makes a checkmark on his mental agenda :) 
<GrueMaster> ogra_: mom.ubuntu.com doesn't exist.
<GrueMaster> Actual link?
<ogra_> heh, it used to be mom. years ago ...
<stgraber> http://merges.ubuntu.com
<ogra_> should be merges.ubuntu.com
<ogra_> ppisati, anything exciting to say about kernels ?
 * ogra_ guesses not at that point of the release :)
<GrueMaster> Other than "We have SRU kernels for testing"...again.
<ogra_> yeah, as usual
<ppisati> not really :)
<GrueMaster> :P
<ppisati> GrueMaster: btw, we have SRU kernels for testing... again! :)
<janimo> ac100 kernel (meta later today) in O-proposed
<ogra_> |\o/
 * GrueMaster facepalms.
<ppisati> ah, is mx53 going to be supported more and more in the future?
<ogra_> with fully working sound now, even after suspend
<ogra_> ppisati, likely
<ppisati> ok
<ogra_> but we get the kernel from linaro 1:1
<ppisati> ok
<ogra_> not sure if ubuntuization is expected here
<ogra_> davidm, ^^ ?
<ogra_> (mx53)
<ppisati> GrueMaster: i think i want one of those board then
<ppisati> and, what about the panda 4460?
<ogra_> ppisati, buy one, expense it
<ppisati> still MIA?
<ppisati> yep
<ppisati> but in USA is cheaper, that's why i would like to "exploit" Grue :)
<ogra_> order it to the UDS hotel *g*
<ppisati> i
<ppisati> and i'll bill it to my room, yep
<davidm> ppisati, we will carry forward the iMX53 support
<davidm> such as it is
<ogra_> sounds like no ubuntuization then
<GrueMaster> ppisati: We can talk offline about boards.
<davidm> ogra_, iMX53 from Linaro should be Ubuntuized
<davidm> by Linaro
<ppisati> davidm: ok, but what about any new hw we are going to see?
<ogra_> davidm, k, we didnt do that this time, kernel lives in universe
<ppisati> davidm: can we already talk about it, or not?
<ogra_> davidm, oh, by linaro ?
<wcchandler> any talk of raspberry pi being there?
<davidm> Should be some new hardware, nothing I can talk about just yet
<ogra_> i thought they dont do that
<ppisati> ok
<ogra_> wcchandler, if they move to a v7 chip
<davidm> if and when raspberry switches to an ARMv7 chip we will look at it
<ogra_> *snap*
<davidm> until then no, Ubuntu is ARM-v7+ only going forward and for sometime now
<ogra_> we only had one v5 release iirc
<ogra_> and only one v6 (which we would have skipped if we had had HW back then)
<davidm> and one v6 release, only because hardware lagged
 * davidm thinks ogra_ types faster then he does
<ogra_> well, we should go as parrots if there is a costume party at UDS :)
<ogra_> anyway, lets move on
<ogra_> i actually have nothing on my mental agenda beyond deciding if we want an IRC meeting during uds
<GrueMaster> It would be a first if we did.  And it would be during a session.
<NCommander> We generally haven't, and I'd think it would be redundent if we did
<ogra_> #vote should we skip the IRC meeting at UDS ?
<meetingology> Please vote on: should we skip the IRC meeting at UDS ?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<ogra_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ogra_
<NCommander> 01
<meetingology> 01 received from NCommander
<NCommander> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from NCommander
<GrueMaster> -1
<meetingology> -1 received from GrueMaster
<ogra_> err, did you guys read what i wrote ?
<GrueMaster> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from GrueMaster
<ogra_> heh
<NCommander> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from NCommander
<davidm> how do I vote to avoid the meeting?
<ogra_> janimo, infinity, davidm
<NCommander> davidm: +1
<janimo> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from janimo
<davidm> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from davidm
<ogra_> davidm, plus 1
<ppisati> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from ppisati
 * ogra_ shakes infinity ... wake up !
<ogra_> :)
<NCommander> I like that we can change our votes, nice change from the old bot
<ogra_> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: should we skip the IRC meeting at UDS ?
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
 * infinity blinks.
<ogra_> 6 were for skipping :)
<ogra_> yay
<infinity> I was in an LP channel when you started the vote.  Sorry. :P
 * ogra_ likes to play with the bot :)
<GrueMaster> ogra_: we could leave if you want some alone time with it.
<ogra_> so thats all i have, if someone has anything beyond that, now is the AOB topic
<infinity> Well, I have moderately fun news.
<davidm> ??
<ogra_> GrueMaster, i'll cuddle with it after the meeting :)
<NCommander> Please add any weekly reports to the wiki page, as we'll be doing these again
<davidm> Yes do add your weekly reports to the wiki page
<infinity> The archive skew thing is fixed in trunk, tested on dogfood, and is just waiting on a maintenance window to roll out to cocoplum.
<infinity> So, we should see it in a day or two.
<davidm> YEA
 * NCommander hugs infinity 
<ogra_> \o/
<janimo> infinity, nice
<NCommander> I propose we celebrate with pie at UDS
<ogra_> ++
<infinity> I like pie.
<ogra_> and beer
<davidm> OK that is more then just moderately fun news
<davidm> thanks infinity
<NCommander> davidm: can you make beer and pie happen? :-)
<ogra_> infinity, oh, what about hf ?
<infinity> Well, it would be super fun news if it had rolled out last night, but they couldn't fit it in. :)
<davidm> yes, that is a good question where are we with ARMhf?
<infinity> ogra_: I'm trying not to set my mx53 and panda on fire getting chroots ready and rebootstrapping toolchains (again).
<infinity> (and again, and again)
<ogra_> doesnt sound fun
<infinity> It surprising how often you can lock up hardware when you really don't want to. :P
<infinity> Either way, we'll have things building by/before UDS.  And I'm still hoping for "this weekend".
<ogra_> ++
<ogra_> anything else we need to discuss ?
<ogra_> or should i close ?
<NCommander> I thnk we can close
<ogra_> speak up now !
<ogra_> k
<ogra_> going once
<ogra_> going twice
<ogra_> ...
<ogra_> sold !
<ogra_> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 20 15:30:20 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-20-15.00.moin.txt
<rsalveti> ogra_: imx53 kernel should have all ubuntu sauce applied already
<rsalveti> and we'll keep releasing it that way
<davidm> thanks rsalveti
<mdz> stgraber, I'm here, ping me when the meeting starts :-)
<stgraber> mdz: ok, will do
<soren> o/
 * stgraber waves
<stgraber> #startmeeting Ubuntu Technical Board meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 20 18:00:26 2011 UTC.  The chair is stgraber. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<mdz> o/
<stgraber> cjwatson, kees: ping
<cjwatson> here
<stgraber> #topic Action review
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Action review
<stgraber> the wiki doesn't list anything, is there something that's not on the wiki?
<soren> Well, kind of.
<soren> On www.ubuntu.com, it says that these meetings are on Tuesdays which I why I missed the last one :(
<cjwatson> wow, that's outdated
<soren> I took an action item to file a bug about that. I did.
<cjwatson> however, I would like to revisit the meeting time anyway given the new board
<soren> Naturally, I didn't do that at the meeting, but it's sort of relevant. :)
<soren> cjwatson: Yes!
<soren> Me too.
<cjwatson> this time is pretty inconvenient for me and I wonder if we could do better for others
<cjwatson> I can take an action to organise one of those whatever the website is called things
<soren> It's very inconvenient for me as well. It'll be even worse once DST goes away.
<cjwatson> the one that lets everyone specify their preferred times
<stgraber> doodle?
<soren> WEll..
<soren> The problem is that we're spread pretty far.
<soren> ACcross many timezones.
<cjwatson> stgraber: sounds familiar
<cjwatson> soren: yeah, but this way we'd at least have data
<cjwatson> worst case we could rotate
<soren> So any time we find is likely to be a bit of stretch for someone.
<soren> ..so when DST changes, it might just move into someone's unacceptable time.
<mdz> stgraber, the wiki has two agenda items
<soren> If that makes sense.
<stgraber> this meeting time is actually pretty good for me (early afternoon), but I'm still fine with it being moved a bit
<mdz> oh, you meant actions
<cjwatson> soren: let's see what we get from a doodle survey
<soren> And DST changes at different times in different parts of the world.
<soren> cjwatson: Right. Set the data there to sometime in the middle of november. Then the data will be good at least until March.
<soren> Er...
<cjwatson> ok
<soren> Set the *date*.
<stgraber> cjwatson: ok, can I give you an action to setup the doodle/whatever survey for the meeting time?
<cjwatson> yes
<stgraber> #action cjwatson to setup a survey for a new Technical Board meeting time
<meetingology> ACTION: cjwatson to setup a survey for a new Technical Board meeting time
<stgraber> #topic MESA patent enquiry
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  MESA patent enquiry
<cjwatson> I followed up to the list about that today
<stgraber> so are we just waiting for some more information from RAOF?
<cjwatson> it would be useful to know if anyone else on the TB (dis)agrees with my assessment, as it looks delicate
<soren> cjwatson: Your conclusion was that we'd better steer clear, right?
<cjwatson> it looks less safe to me than I would like, let's put it that way
<cjwatson> I don't know if I would feel differently if we hadn't been explicitly asked
<mdz> I haven't read the list recently
<stgraber> mdz: in case you didn't find it already: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001113.html
<soren> cjwatson: I agree. They're not saying they'll enforce it, but they're saying open source implementations certainly aren't exempt. That makes me uncomfortable.
<kees> (erk, sorry I'm late. here now)
<kees> has there been any off-list discussion of what features are missing if it stays disabled? that questions went unanswered on the list
<stgraber> I doubt RAOF actually read cjwatson's e-mail yet, he probably will in a few hours though
<cjwatson> yeah, sorry, I was prompted into replying by checking the agenda
<stgraber> so I guess we can keep that item on the agenda and re-discuss at the next meeting when we have some more information from RAOF
<stgraber> #topic Authorise temporary substitute for Emmet Hikory on DMB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Authorise temporary substitute for Emmet Hikory on DMB
<cjwatson> various people have been trying to get in touch with Emmet, and have so far failed
<cjwatson> in the meantime, I think it might be appropriate for us to authorise a stand-in so that the DMB can carry on doing business more effectively
<stgraber> the suggested solution to that problem for the DMB would be to temporarily get the second candidate of the last election, Stefano Rivera to take Emmet's seat until we hear back from him
<soren> I have no problem with that.
<mdz> sounds reasonable enough
<stgraber> I'm fine with that too. Only thing I was wondering is if tumbleweed was contacted about it?
<cjwatson> I don't think so as yet, obviously he'd need to consent :)
<cjwatson> tumbleweed: (don't suppose you're reading?)
<kees> if he's willing, I think that's fine too.
<cjwatson> that sounds like approval by acclamation to me
<stgraber> ok, I'll take the action of contacting tumbleweed and if he's willing, add him to both the LP team and mailing list
<mdz> thanks
<stgraber> #agreed Authorise Stefano Rivera as temporary substitute for Emmet Hikory on DMB
<stgraber> #action stgraber to contact tumbleweed and if he agrees to be on the DMB, add him to the LP team and mailing list
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to contact tumbleweed and if he agrees to be on the DMB, add him to the LP team and mailing list
<stgraber> ok, so the meeting time agenda item was already discussed earlier
<stgraber> not quite sure what to do about the brainstorm review item, do we just skip it until December 2011?
<stgraber> (sorry, was supposed to find some time with pitti to discuss pre/post TB meeting actions, but that didn't quite happen...)
<cjwatson> it's just there as a reminder
<mdz> stgraber, the idea was that it would remind us
<stgraber> #topic DMB term length
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  DMB term length
<stgraber> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001105.html
<cjwatson> I don't remember any explicit decision on that, and can't check back right now
<cjwatson> though I can perhaps check my archives tomorrow
<soren> In case no decision has been made, perhaps we should decide now?
<kees> is the CC 2 years?
<kees> because if so, it seems like the common term is 2 years.
<soren> And fall back to whatever you find out was previously decided, if anything.
<stgraber> that'd be great. I had a quick look on the wiki and through my e-mails when that thread started but couldn't find any reference to the term length on there
<cjwatson> I certainly don't object to 2, which aligns with the TB too
<soren> I have no particular preference. Two years is customary in Ubuntu, so I'm fine with that (and we can let geser off the hook early as an exception)
<stgraber> I'm fine with 2 years
<soren> And Laney.
<soren> per https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001107.html
<cjwatson> 1 might have been an accident due to LP defaults
<stgraber> only note is that quite a few members asked for their expiry not to be cahnged if we indeed choose to make it 2 years
<soren> Ok, so geser and Laney are off the hook in Feb 2012. Everyone else's term is 2 years, unless cjwatson finds a different decision in the archives.
<stgraber> right, both Michael Bienia and Iain Lane asked for theirs to be kept to one year
<soren> Does that sounds good to everyone?
<stgraber> yep, that sounds good to me
 * kees nods
<cjwatson> ok
<stgraber> #vote Set DMB term to 2 years except for geser and Laney who asked for theirs to expire in February 2012
<meetingology> Please vote on: Set DMB term to 2 years except for geser and Laney who asked for theirs to expire in February 2012
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cjwatson> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cjwatson
<soren> +1
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<stgraber> mdz, kees: ^
<mdz> sorry
<mdz> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdz
<soren> Where's pitti today, btw? Did we just forget to ping him?
<stgraber> soren: I poked him in #ubuntu-devel, no response
<soren> Ok, np.
<stgraber> looks like we lost kees, I guess we can take that "18:39  * kees nods" as a +1, though we already have 4 +1s anyway
<stgraber> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Set DMB term to 2 years except for geser and Laney who asked for theirs to expire in February 2012
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<stgraber> #action stgraber to update the term of the DMB members to 2 years
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to update the term of the DMB members to 2 years
<soren> Mark just commented on the MESA issue.
<soren> fwiw
<stgraber> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001114.html
<stgraber> #topic AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  AOB
<stgraber> Looking at the mailing-list, I also found https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001104.html
<soren> Does the DMB have privileges to actually add stuff to package sets or do they still go through cjwatson for that?
<soren> Technical privileges, I mean.
<stgraber> the DMB actually owns a few package sets
<soren> I'm not sure I understand what that means.
<stgraber> for the others they ask someone on the TB to implement the changes (usually cjwatson though I guess I can do it myself now)
<kees> stupid network. back again. yeah, I was +1 :P
<soren> Ok, someone owns a package set. The owner can add and remove packages from it? And the team that can upload the packages in the package set is a different team than the owning team?
<soren> Is that right?
<stgraber> yep
<soren> Ok.
<stgraber> I just got reminded by wendar that the ARB has a selection of new members that need to be reviewed by the TB, ideally at this meeting
<stgraber> #topic selection of new ARB members
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  selection of new ARB members
<stgraber> wendar: thanks for reminding me!
<stgraber> the list is at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001110.html
<stgraber> as discussed at the last TB meeting, these would be additional members of the ARB team to help with the few new packages that the ARB got since developers.u.c was launched
<soren> How many seats are being filled? 3?
<wendar> yes, three
<stgraber> that's an additional 3 seats on the ARB, yes
<wendar> bringing us back up to the 7 seats currently listed as the max
<wendar> (we've been down to 4 members for a while)
<stgraber> all three candidates are part of ubuntu-dev as was agreed at the last TB meeting
<stgraber> #vote Approve the 3 additional members for the ARB (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001110.html)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Approve the 3 additional members for the ARB (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001110.html)
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<kees> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kees
<stgraber> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from stgraber
<soren> I don't personally have any reservations about them, but I wonder how it would have shown in a condorcet vote if someone did.
<mdz> one moment, reading the email
<mdz> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from mdz
<wendar> soren: it would show as a very low rating, "no opinion" gives them no points
<soren> Hm.
<soren> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from soren
<soren> ...but I think we should revisit how we do this in the future.
<stgraber> cjwatson: ^
<wendar> soren: yeah, someone suggested a "None of the Above" entry
<wendar> soren: also, more of a +1/-1 system seems appropriate here
<mdz> wendar, that would be an improvement I think
<soren> That would have helped, but I'm not sure that would really do the trick.
<soren> wendar: Right, exactly.
<wendar> soren: something to talk about at the UDS session
<mdz> is there a document anywhere which explains the process for running an election?
<stgraber> another way would have been to create one poll per candidate with a simple yes/no vote
<wendar> mdz: yes, it's new, but the TB reviewed it in the last meeting
<wendar> mdz: so, this is our first time through electing new ARB members
<mdz> I figured most of our elections are probably run in the same fashion
<mdz> and if not, they probably should be :-)
<wendar> mdz: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AppReviewBoard/Restaffing
<stgraber> we usually have more candidate than seats though
<stgraber> this time was a bit weird as we had 3 candidates and 3 seats
<wendar> mdz: (which is just a specific application of https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Restaffing)
<wendar> stgraber: yes, that's what made the usual poll system an odd fit for this one
<stgraber> ok, looks like we lost cjwatson
<stgraber> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Approve the 3 additional members for the ARB (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2011-October/001110.html)
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<soren> I wonder if we should always include a "none of the above" option.
<soren> EVen if there are more candidates than seats, there might still be candidates that people would rather be without.
<soren> Which is just as valid as in the case where there are as many (or fewer) candidates as there are seats to be filled.
<stgraber> soren: I think that'd be interesting to have indeed
<cjwatson> I'm +1 on that ARB motion, sorry
<cjwatson> I do have to leave now though
<stgraber> #action stgraber to add the new members to the ARB
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to add the new members to the ARB
<cjwatson> none of the above - agreed
<stgraber> #topic Chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Ubuntu Technical Board meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Chair
<soren> Next meeting is as UDS, right?
<stgraber> so apparently the TB uses alphabetical order, making cjwatson the next chair
<stgraber> soren: indeed
<soren> Cool.
<cjwatson> I'm fine with that
<stgraber> so that's going to be at 3pm UDS-time
<soren> Well..
<soren> Yeah, probably.
<soren> We can make the new meeting time effective after UDS.
<soren> (whatever it may be)
<soren> How many of us will be at UDS?
<soren> o/
<stgraber> I'll
<stgraber> I'm sorry, I also have to run, I think we'll be a majority of the TB members at UDS.
<stgraber> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 20 19:09:35 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-20-18.00.moin.txt
<stgraber> looking forward to seeing you all at UDS (for these of you who can make it)
 * kees will miss everyone :(
<soren> kees: Likewise!
<stgraber> have to run to another meeting. Thanks everyone for attending!
 * soren also wanders off
<juancarlospaco> test
<juancarlospaco> test
<SergioMeneses> hi all
<marianom> hi
<CesarGomez> Hello everybody
<IngForigua> don SergioMeneses
<IngForigua> como me le va
<tenach> Allo.
<IngForigua> don CesarGomez |
<IngForigua> tenach: hi
<SergioMeneses> marianom, CesarGomez  tenach \o
<CesarGomez> IngForigua  hiya
<IngForigua> how speak spanish here?
<IngForigua> sorry
<IngForigua> who
<IngForigua> xDD
<CesarGomez> xD
<juancarlospaco> hello
<IngForigua> hi ^^
 * bkerensa waves
<bkerensa> \o/ Happy Birthday Ubuntu!
<marcoceppi> Hello, I'm traveling via train, so 3G is a little spotty.
<juancarlospaco> Êâ¿Ê
<marcoceppi> However, I'm using IRC Cloud so I won't loose any communications :D
<SergioMeneses> marcoceppi, great!... and where are you now?
<juancarlospaco> lol, "jorge castro its a bot?" thread on askubuntu :P
<marcoceppi> Traveling between NY and DC. Somewhere outside Philly
<marcoceppi> Haha, yeah. I laughed pretty hard when I read that
<SergioMeneses> I see
<c_smith> don't mind me, I'm here waiting on bkerensa's meeting, as I'm from his LoCo team
<bkerensa> =o
 * bkerensa waves
<bkerensa> c_smith: our LoCo :P
<c_smith> xD
<c_smith> hello
<c_smith> bkerensa, good point.
<SergioMeneses> jajajaja
 * MarkDude is here in support of bkerensa also:) 
<tenach> :D Got some good support, bkerensa
<bkerensa> tenach: yeah lots of great people in the community :D
<bkerensa> glad to be able to contribute along side them
<tenach> bk
<paultag> I'm here to +1 tenach, jrgifford and bkerensa
<tenach> bkerensa: I'm so glad I am able to as well!
<paultag> somehow you've all got the same meeting
<paultag> which is nuts
<tenach> paultag: lucky us!
<jrgifford> paultag: Awesome, this wasn't planned.
<jrgifford> but it's as good as if we did plan it. :)
<paultag> :)
<c_smith> haha, nice
 * bkerensa +K's paultag in #Ubuntu
<bkerensa> :P
<bkerensa> +K = Klout
<bkerensa> :P
<ajmitch> jrgifford: be afraid
<tenach> bkerensa: Ha ha. :D
<c_smith> +K?  what's that?
<MarkDude> Well if paultag supports you bkerensa I might as well leave. That dude is gold
<jrgifford> ajmitch: Oh hush. :D
<JoseGutierrez> Hello !!!
<MarkDude> Hey paultag
<tenach> c_smith: Klout :) It's a ranking service.
<bkerensa> MarkDude: You and paultag are like yin and yang
<bkerensa> :D
<MarkDude> lol
<paultag> ohai MarkDude
<c_smith> oh. and ya showed me that.
<juancarlospaco> ...more people joining the BBQ
<c_smith> *goes back to his music*
<bkerensa> Esto va a ser un gran encuentro ... amigos buena suerte
<JoseGutierrez> #ubuntu-co-meeting
<c_smith> bkerensa, I didn't know you spoke spanish.
<bkerensa> c_smith: poco
<MarkDude> Hmm, I think the two of us are both either yin or yang tho.
<c_smith> bkerensa. Poco? what's that?
<MarkDude> A better polar opposite would be Lyz :)
<bkerensa> c_smith: little or a little bit
<SergioMeneses> bkerensa, \o
<c_smith> ok
<bkerensa> Thats what happens when you live in the Mission District of San Francisco for two years and eat nothing but mexican food ;)
<bkerensa> :D
<SergioMeneses> bkerensa, o.0 w?
<Andphe> lol
<IngForigua> Andphe: hola
<bkerensa> SergioMeneses: ;) My spoken spanish is better ;P
<Andphe> hola IngForigua
<SergioMeneses> bkerensa, sure! I see it that
<SergioMeneses> xD
<marcoceppi> bkerensa: Yo tambien :)
<SergioMeneses> marcoceppi, jajaja
<IngForigua> mucha gente habla spanish
<SergioMeneses> si la mayorÃ­a latinos!
<SergioMeneses> al menos los activos
<JoseGutierrez_> IngForigua Si jajaja
<marcoceppi> E Italiano
<bkerensa> mi padre es mitad mexicano y mi madre es medio italiano
<SergioMeneses> marcoceppi, = ubuntu.it?
<paultag> ich kann nur Deutsch sprechen :)
<bkerensa> marcoceppi: Di Sono Italiano?
<bkerensa> :)
<bkerensa> paultag: Welkommen
<bkerensa> :P
<SergioMeneses> bkerensa, segun google.translator si
<marcoceppi> I've never seen ubuntu.it
<paultag> some locos choose to register ubuntu in their tld
<paultag> offhand I know of ubuntu.il
<bkerensa> SergioMeneses: ayuda para la ortografÃ­a sÃ­
<CesarGomez> :P
<paultag> ... which is down
<bkerensa> LOL
<SergioMeneses> marcoceppi, http://www.ubuntu-it.org/_release-day/11.10/index.html
<bkerensa> paultag: Their upgrade to 11.10 must have failwhaled
<paultag> bkerensa: LTS on servers, baby
<bkerensa> nathwill: thanks :D
<marcoceppi> LTS is for those who play it safe, Go big or go home on production severs :P
<bkerensa> paultag: Bleeding Edge for the win
<bkerensa> :D
<jrgifford> marcoceppi: spoken like a true sysadmin who doesn't care. :D
<marcoceppi> Job security :)
<nathwill> wait, are there sysadmins who care?
 * greg-g waves
<bkerensa> marcoceppi: Indeed I would rather risk the chance of small failwhale then avoid getting the immediate benefits of new features and tweaks
<bkerensa> :)
<MarkDude> Will there be cookies for the meeting?
<bkerensa> nathwill: LOL
<paultag> bkerensa: on a webserver that's not changed for years?
 * MarkDude likes cookies
<paultag> bkerensa: I beg to differ :)
<SergioMeneses> MarkDude, great!
<bkerensa> MarkDude: ask pleia2 I hear she makes awesome cookies
<MarkDude> bkerensa, that she does
<SergioMeneses> jajajaja
<SergioMeneses> poor pleia2
<marcoceppi> So far all the upgrades from 10.04 have gone swimmingly
<beuno> tenach, around?
<tenach> beuno: yeah
<SergioMeneses> pleia2, \o
<cyphermox> awesome
<bkerensa> paultag: Well If its for a huge network I can understand LTS/Stable but for my production servers I like bleeding edge but thats a small number so its easier for me to mitigate a issue
<bkerensa> cyphermox is the U1 person :D
<cyphermox> bkerensa: not really...
<marcoceppi> Also, since they're all virtual severs it's really easy to checkpoint, upgrade, and revert if fails happen
<cyphermox> bkerensa: NM maybe :)
<c_smith> bkerensa, U1 is Ubuntu One, right?
<bkerensa> cyphermox: Oh nvm I got you confused with someone :D
<bkerensa> c_smith: Yeah
<beuno> lets get this parrty started!
<greg-g> rock it!
<beuno> jrgifford, you about as well?
 * marcoceppi raises roof
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-21
<bkerensa> \o/
 * nathwill cracks open a beer
<nhandler> Alright, let's get started
<nhandler> Hello and welcome to the Ubuntu Membership Review Board for the Americas meeting for Thursday, October 20, 2011. The wiki page for the Review Board is available here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/Americas
<nhandler> We will attempt to get through all of the applicants that have added themselves to that list before today's meeting. If we are unable to make it through the entire list due to time constraints, then at the next meeting we will pick up where we left off.
<nhandler> The format for the meeting is as follows: We will go through the list of applicants one by one, by date of application (FIFO).
<nhandler> Each applicant should introduce themselves (1-5 sentences) and provide links to their Ubuntu Wiki page. After the introduction the members of the Membership Review Board will review the pages and, if needed, ask the applicant further questions.
<nhandler> During this time it is encouraged for other members of the community to show their support for the applicant. Do not be alarmed if the members of the Membership Review Board are quiet during this time; they are most likely reading wiki/launchpad/forum/other pages and deciding how they are going to vote.
<nhandler> When the board is ready to vote, they will publicly vote in the channel with either +1, 0, or -1 (for membership, abstain, and against membership, respectively). If the sum of those numbers is positive, then the applicant is now an official Ubuntu member! (feel free congratulate them!)
<nhandler> Now, with any further ado, lets get started with the first applicant...
<nhandler> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Fri Oct 21 00:02:22 2011 UTC.  The chair is nhandler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AlanBell/mootbot.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<nhandler> #topic Thomas Martin (tenach)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Thomas Martin (tenach)
<nhandler> tenach: Care to tell us a bit about yourself?
<tenach> Sure thing! I'm Thomas Martin, known mostly online as tenach. I'm a 23 year old college student and F/OSS & Ubuntu advocate.
<zkriesse> if i may, just wanted to say im here to endorse Tenach (Thomas Martin)
<Unit193> I've worked a little with him in UBT and hope to do so more
<tenach> I've been mostly active through IRC in projects as well as mentoring a team of students in Ohio, in how to use Ubuntu and EyeOS as a Software as a Service cloud for their school. Jordohio is their team lead.
<tenach> My wiki page is located at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Tenach
<paultag> WOOO!!!!!!!!
<paultag> I'm here to cheer for tenach!
<Jordohio> That's me. :P
<pleia2> tenach: are you part of a loco team?
<paultag> I've known tenach for years, and I'm shocked he's not gone for membership before this. He has my total support. </plug> :)
<tenach> pleia2: I've been in and out of the ubuntu-us-wa chat, but other than that, have never attended any LoCo event
<tenach> Something I want to remedy really soon, though.
<beuno> tenach, you've been like the duke nukem forever of applicants!
<tenach> beuno: +1 on that
<nhandler> tenach: You've had a goal of becoming MOTU for a while. Have you done any work towards that?
<zkriesse> Ive known Tenach for some time now and havw always enjoyed his friendly attitude, the way he contributes, and the way he treats new folks to linux etc... im delighted to call him friend and fully support his application...
<tenach> nhandler: Not actively, no. I have worked some with paultag on learning how to build packages and the like, but nothing too intensive.
<tenach> I have spent more of my time spreading Ubuntu (the OS and the philosophy) throughout the teams and communities I am part of.
<nhandler> #voters beuno cyphermox greg-g n0rman nhandler Pendulum pleia2
<meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum beuno cyphermox greg-g n0rman nhandler pleia2
<pleia2> +1
<greg-g> +1
<cyphermox> +1
<Pendulum> +1
<nhandler> #vote tenach
<cyphermox> actually, fail
<meetingology> Please vote on: tenach
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pleia2> oops
<pleia2> hehe
<pleia2> +1
<greg-g> heh
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<cyphermox> hehe :)
<greg-g> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from greg-g
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<cyphermox> thatÂ´s what, like, +9 in total? ;)
<pleia2> beuno?
<beuno> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from beuno
<beuno> sorry
<nhandler> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: tenach
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<paultag> tenach: CONGRATS! You're the man! Long time coming, friend-io!
<pleia2> congrats and welcome tenach :)
<nhandler> Congratulations tenach !
<bkerensa> Congrats Tenach
<duanedesign> congrats tenach
<tenach> :D Thank you, everyone!
<greg-g> congrats and welcome aboard tenach !
<Andphe> congrats
<zkriesse> woo
<SergioMeneses> congratulations
<EuzkoArima> congrats tenach
<tenach> :D
<CesarGomez> congrats tenach!
<Jordohio> Congrats, tenach! :D
<nhandler> #topic James Gifford (jrgifford)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: James Gifford (jrgifford)
<nhandler> jrgifford: Can you say a few words about yourself?
<jrgifford> I am a Ubuntu user and advocate. I've been using Ubuntu for about a year, and I've done a fair amount of Q&A on Ask Ubuntu.
<jrgifford> My wikipage is here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/jamesgifford
<pleia2> great testimonials :)
<paultag> ( Just took a look from my work in the other window - y'all are making this easy for me -- I'm here to +1 jrgifford too. He took over for me in Cleveland and has been helping with Ubuntu Ohio in a bunch of really awesome ways. I endore his application, too.)
<beuno> was about to say that
<nhandler> Your wiki says you plan to work on some Ubuntu Hours for Cleveland. How are those coming along?
<ajmitch> by a "fair amount" he means in the top most active users on askubuntu
<jrgifford> nhandler: Currently, it's slow going. Making connections with ubuntu people in the area isn't easy.
<Unit193> I'm here to say he does work in our LoCo as well
<paultag> I totally agree with that
<oli> Yeah James is extremely useful at helping people (and us mods) on Ask Ubuntu. A real asset to our community.
<greg-g> awesome, thanks for the testimonials, everyone
<jrgifford> nhandler: However, we're about to get a date for a release party. (late, but still worth it)
<cyphermox> jrgifford: itÂ´ s never too late :)
<nhandler> I completely agree with that ;)
<nhandler> #vote jrgifford
<meetingology> Please vote on: jrgifford
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<pleia2> +1
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<beuno> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from beuno
<Pendulum> _1
<c_smith> that's good to know that other LoCos are doing later Release parties.
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<greg-g> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from greg-g
 * ajmitch was tempted to come & heckle, but he's done some good work  ;)
<jrgifford> ajmitch: oh shutup. ;)
<cyphermox> jrgifford: weÂ´ re having the release party in Montreal tomorrow :)
<pleia2> we had our san francisco one last night
<jrgifford> cyphermox: Cool! Have fun!
<paultag> pleia2: dang! I'll be in town tom. afternoon!
<beuno> jrgifford, congrats
<nhandler> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: jrgifford
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> congrats jrgifford :)
<jrgifford> beuno: Thanks!
<nhandler> Congratulations and welcome jrgifford !
<Unit193> jrgifford: Congrats!!
<greg-g> congrats and welcome aboard, jrgifford
<pleia2> paultag: orly? should we meet up?
<Andphe> congrats
<CesarGomez> Congrats
<SergioMeneses> congrats
<jrgifford> Unit193: Thanks! :D
<paultag> pleia2: yeah, I'll PM you after the meeting :)
<EuzkoArima> congrats
<marcoceppi> \o/ well deserved
<paultag> jrgifford: grats! :)
<tenach> Congratulations jrgifford!
<oli> Congratulations jrgifford
<jrgifford> Thanks everyone. :)
<nhandler> #topic Cesar Gomez (CesarGomez)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Cesar Gomez (CesarGomez)
<nhandler> CesarGomez: You're up :)
<CesarGomez> Sure right here !
<Andphe> CesarGomez, _\../
<SergioMeneses> CesarGomez, \o/
<greg-g> awesome, I like to see that kind of support :)
<Andphe> :)
<JoseGutierrez_> CesarGomez :)
<beuno> CesarGomez, tell us about yourself
<CesarGomez> Hello everyone am Cesar Gomez, 26, ubuntu user I am a few years ago, I work in local community projects to which I belong, I am the local community council Ubuntu Colombia here is my wiki for more information https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CesarGomez
<nhandler> CesarGomez: What work have you done with the ES Classroom?
<IngForigua> CesarGomez: good luck
<CesarGomez> basically, I have attended many activities to learn. I've doing some sessions there along SergioMeneses and pablorubianes
<pleia2> great
<beuno> CesarGomez, how do you feel Ubuntu has been evolving in the installfests?
<CesarGomez> it has great acceptance, increasingly more people participate actively, we managed to attract many people and I think it can improve much more
<SergioMeneses> testify! CesarGomez constantly helped us in different sessions
<greg-g> great
<IngForigua> CesarGomez: his help in ubuntu colombia is awensome
<beuno> ok, lets vote!
<nhandler> #voters beuno cyphermox greg-g n0rman nhandler Pendulum pleia2 dinda
<meetingology> Current voters: Pendulum beuno cyphermox dinda greg-g n0rman nhandler pleia2
<greg-g> +1
<pleia2> +1
<beuno> +1
<nhandler> #vote CesarGomez
<meetingology> Please vote on: CesarGomez
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<meetingology> +1 received from beuno
<pleia2> oh
<dinda> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dinda
<pleia2> +1
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<Andphe> yes we always need people to attend events,
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<greg-g> +11
<meetingology> +11 received from greg-g
<greg-g> erm, haha
<pleia2> lol
<cyphermox> nhandler: you donÂ´ t need to re-set votes every time :)
<Pendulum> greg-g: a bit enthusiastic, there?
<beuno> slam dunk!
<nhandler> cyphermox: I added dinda ;)
<beuno> welcome CesarGomez!
<cyphermox> ohh
<cyphermox> sorry :)
<SergioMeneses> CesarGomez, congrats! felicitaciones!
<nhandler> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: CesarGomez
<meetingology> Votes for:7 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<nhandler> Congrats
<greg-g> congrats and welcome aboard, CesarGomez
<beuno> JoseGutierrez_, reay?
<beuno> and, ready
<EuzkoArima> congrats Cesar
<Andphe> beuno cyphermox greg-g n0rman nhandler Pendulum pleia2 dinda thanks!!! you did a great benefit for Colombian Ubuntu community
<Andphe>  \o/
<CesarGomez> thanks, really thanks everyone
<SergioMeneses> Andphe, I agree
<nhandler> #topic Jose Gutierrez (JoseGutierrez)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Jose Gutierrez (JoseGutierrez)
<nhandler> JoseGutierrez_: Your turn
<greg-g> Andphe: I think CesarGomez did a great benefit for the Colombian Ubuntu community :)
<JoseGutierrez_> ok
<Andphe> ;)
<SergioMeneses> JoseGutierrez_, \o/
<JoseGutierrez_> Hello!!
<greg-g> please introduce yourself, JoseGutierrez_
<Andphe>  _\../
<IngForigua> good luck JoseGutierrez_
<JoseGutierrez_> hi, I live in Cali JoseGutierrez Colombia promotes the use of free software and ubuntu I am also council member of Ubuntu Colombia, and working from my home town for people who do not know the wonderful world of free software have the opportunity to meet and familiar with its use.
<JoseGutierrez_> It also collaborates with all the administrative tasks of Ubuntu Colombia ..  For more info visit: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JoseGutierrez
<nhandler> What have you done as a member of ubuntu-co-documentacion ?
<JoseGutierrez_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue236#Ubuntu-Co_tiene_nueva_wiki_.2BIBM_Ubuntu-Co_has_a_new_wiki
<JoseGutierrez_> I helped with the modification of our wikis
<nhandler> Very impressive
<pleia2> great work
<SergioMeneses> I testify!... I'm the coordinator
<pleia2> thanks SergioMeneses :)
<SergioMeneses> pleia2, don't worry :D
<CesarGomez> JoseGutierrez \o/
<pleia2> it's really great that you guys come out and support each other like this
<Andphe> :D
<greg-g> agreed. the Colombian community always impresses me.
<SergioMeneses> pleia2, we are community :D
<SergioMeneses> greg-g, thnaks
<nhandler> #vote JoseGutierrez
<meetingology> Please vote on: JoseGutierrez
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<Andphe> #nervous
<greg-g> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from greg-g
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<Andphe> :')
<dinda> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dinda
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<nhandler> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: JoseGutierrez
<meetingology> Votes for:6 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<cyphermox> sorry
<greg-g> congrats and welcome aboard, JoseGutierrez_
<nhandler> Congratulations JoseGutierrez_
<EuzkoArima> congrats Jose
<CesarGomez> Congrats JoseGutierrez !
<Andphe> \o/
<JoseGutierrez_> thanks
<JoseGutierrez_> :)
<cyphermox> congrats JoseGutierrez_ :)
<SergioMeneses> congrats JoseGutierrez_ !!!
<greg-g> alright, everyon, my apologies, but I must head out to catch a train. But, thanks to the great America's RMB we will still have quorum. So, carry on and congrats again to all of the awesome new Ubuntu Members!
<paultag> <3 greg-g
<nhandler> Thanks for coming greg-g
<tenach> Congratulations JoseGutierrez_
<nhandler> #topic Kevin Dubois (kdub)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Kevin Dubois (kdub)
<pleia2> looks like he's not here, come back to him if he shows up?
<nhandler> Alright, we'll move on to the next applicant
<nhandler> #topic Eduardo Zuniga (EuzkoArima)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Eduardo Zuniga (EuzkoArima)
<nhandler> EuzkoArima: Ready?
<EuzkoArima> yes
<juancarlospaco> iam here to endorse EuzkoArima ! Êâ¿Ê
<EuzkoArima> Hi I am Eduardo ZÃºÃ±iga aka EuzkoArima, a developer using ubuntu since 2005
<EuzkoArima> I'm particulary involved in "face events" (ie installfest, etc) where my LoCo (ubuntu-ar) participate
<EuzkoArima> my wiki page is located at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EuzkoArima
<EuzkoArima> Not in my wiki yet, but I organized last release party in Buenos Aires
<Z37A> i'm here to from my mobile to endorse EuzkoArima!
<sajnox> Hello everyone, I'm Miguel Sajnovsky ubuntu member since Nov 08 and I'd like to support Eduardo's membership
<EuzkoArima> Since today I'm also be moderator of Argentina LoCo Team subforum
<nhandler> EuzkoArima: How many events would you say you helped to organize?
<EuzkoArima> hi guys, glad to see you (Z37A, sajnox, juancarlospaco)
<EuzkoArima> to organize just 2, the last RP and with Z37A a conference in a high school
<Z37A> the event of ET36 two years consecutive
<EuzkoArima> yep
<nhandler> #vote EuzkoArima
<meetingology> Please vote on: EuzkoArima
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<Z37A> EuzkoArima participate in the UbuConf organization to
<pleia2> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from pleia2
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<Daniel-TL> EuzkoArima: thank yuo to help us, in Ubuntu-ar maillist :)
<pleia2> beuno, cyphermox, dinda?
<dinda> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dinda
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<cyphermox> :)
<nhandler> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: EuzkoArima
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<Andphe> EuzkoArima, congrats
<nhandler> Congratulations EuzkoArima
<pleia2> congrats EuzkoArima :)
<marcoceppi> Congrats!
<juancarlospaco> ... Congratulations EuzkoArima !!! Êâ¿Ê
<Daniel-TL> EuzkoArima: very good!!!
<Z37A> congrats EuzkoArima!!!
<pleia2> ok, my turn to run out, have a good rest of the meeting all
<EuzkoArima> thanks everyone
<IngForigua> EuzkoArima: nice
<SergioMeneses> congrats
<nhandler> #topic Brandon Snider (bjsnider)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Brandon Snider (bjsnider)
<nhandler> Bye pleia2
<bjsnider> do we still have quorum?
<bkerensa> ?
<nhandler> I think we do, let me just double check
 * marcoceppi anxious
<bkerensa> marcoceppi: Indeed
<nhandler> bjsnider: While I check on quorum, can you introduce yourself?
<bjsnider> yep
<bjsnider> Hi, I'm Brandon Snider, I've been using Ubuntu since Breezy. I have been packaging software in PPAs for several years. I develop and perfect packaging scripts and have made some contributions that way.
<bjsnider> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrandonSnider
<bjsnider> https://launchpad.net/~brandonsnider
<nhandler> bjsnider: Any plans to work towards upload privileges or anything like that?
<bjsnider> absolutely
<bjsnider> but one step at a time
<nhandler> :)
<dinda> any other questions for bjsnider?
<nhandler> #vote bjsnider
<meetingology> Please vote on: bjsnider
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<dinda> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dinda
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<nhandler> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: bjsnider
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bkerensa> Congrats
<bjsnider> thank you
<Andphe> congrats bjsnider
<CesarGomez> congrats!
<EuzkoArima> congrats Brandon
<marcoceppi> congrats!
<Andphe> (y)
<dinda> congrats!
<Unit193> bjsnider: Congrats
<JoseGutierrez_> congratS!!!
<bjsnider> can i ask, what happens now? do i get an email or something like that?
<bkerensa> lol
<bkerensa> :D
<CesarGomez> xD!
<mhoyos> EuzkoArima:  good !!! other Ub of argentina
<MarkDude> Mark S helicopter drops off a statue to your house
<dinda> bjsnider: yes, we'll add you the members group and that will allow you to get the ubuntu.com email address
<bjsnider> cool
<EuzkoArima> mhoyos: thanks
<nhandler> #topic Benjamin Kerensa (bkerensa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Benjamin Kerensa (bkerensa)
<nathwill> whoooo!!!!
<MarkDude> +1
 * bkerensa waves
<c_smith> Good Luck, bkerensa!
<nathwill> i'm here for bkerensa. my 2 cents: bkerensa is the number one reason we have a loco in OR. i've been on the or-loco mailing list since forever, and since ben's gotten involved, i get mail, we've been having regular meetings and promotional/awareness events, and we're having a big release party tomorrow :) he's got my endorsement all the way.
<paultag> I'm here to +1 bkerensa - his work has been visible to the loco-council and I think it's of the quality we expect to see from a team contact. He's friendly and outgoing, and would be a good addition to the community
<paultag> that's all for endorsements for the day. Thanks, RMB!
 * MarkDude is here to support bkerensa 
<c_smith> Same as Paultag and Markdude.
<MarkDude> Great team lead
<MarkDude> Very friendly and welcoming
<Darkwing> I'm here to +1 bkerensa, Not only is he involved in the OR Loco he also sits and helps with the California team as much as possible. He is a GREAT help when ever he can!
<bkerensa> Thanks guys
<c_smith> Bkerensa puts a lot of effort and time into Ubuntu Oregon Team.
<juancarlospaco> I have to go, congrants all new members!
<juancarlospaco> bye
<MarkDude> He was able to get momentum going in Oregon - where others had not been able to ( like myself)
<nhandler> #vote bkerensa
<meetingology> Please vote on: bkerensa
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<bkerensa> Hello Board Members, My name is Benjamin Kerensa and I'm 27 years old and live in Portland, OR and currently am Team Lead of Ubuntu Oregon and also help on Bugs, Docs, Leadership etc. My application can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/bkerensa/Membership_Application
<dinda> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dinda
 * bkerensa didnt get to introduce himself
<bkerensa> lol
<Darkwing> lol
<paultag> hahaha
<dinda> lol - his supporters were too quick for him!
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<marcoceppi> No introduction needed :)
<nhandler> bkerensa: Oops, I guess your lovely testimonials will serve as your intro ;)
<c_smith> lol
<ajmitch> bkerensa: you must be good :)
<nhandler> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: bkerensa
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<nhandler> Congratulations, keep up the great work
<CesarGomez> congrats bkerensa
<marcoceppi> congrats!
<bkerensa> Thanks
<nathwill> congrats!
<EuzkoArima> congrats Benjamin
<bkerensa> lol
<Andphe> lol
<Pendulum> bkerensa: it's just obvious how awesome you are :P
<Andphe> o_O
<JoseGutierrez_> congrats !!!
<bkerensa> not even one question?
<bkerensa> :D
<Andphe> congrats
<nathwill> link to your tat!
<nhandler> bkerensa: I can make some up if you want ;)
<bkerensa> LOL nhandler
<bkerensa> I will spare your time ;)
<MarkDude> The tat does count as extra for sure
<nhandler> Now for our final applicant of the night
<bkerensa> oh yeah
<nhandler> #topic Marco Ceppi (marcoceppi)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Marco Ceppi (marcoceppi)
<ajmitch> just +1 him
<marcoceppi> I've gone ahead and prepared a quick intro
<marcoceppi> Hello, my name is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/marco-ceppi I have been using Ubuntu for the past 6 years. Prior to this I used Debian and CentOS. Professionally I work as both a Linux System Administrator and a Web Developer. Recently I've been working closely with the Stack Exchange team as a Moderator of Ask Ubuntu â there I've spent my time helping new and current users of Ubuntu get help with the
<marcoceppi> ir questions while helping to shape what I hope becomes an important cornerstone to the Community Support for Ubuntu. I look forward to continuing my support for the Ubuntu community and platform wherever I can, whenever I can. Above all I view myself as in debt to the Ubuntu community for helping to provide me and many people I work, know, and associate with, for providing me with an exceptional
<marcoceppi> operating system. I hope to become a member to continue my support of Ubuntu and it's community.
 * george_e is here to support MarcoCeppi!
<george_e> Marco has been an _amazing_ moderator on Ask Ubuntu.
 * marcoceppi swears it's under the 5 sentence limit :)
<jrgifford> marcoceppi: You think too hard about things like that.
<nhandler> I've seen the quality (and quantity) of your answers on ask ubuntu. I'm quite impressed
<marcoceppi> nhandler: thank you!
<nhandler> marcoceppi: Are you involved with a LoCo?
<oli> Ask Ubuntu wouldn't run without Marco. He is an essential member of the team there.
<marcoceppi> Not as actively as I should be, but I do follow discussions of the DC-Loco
<marcoceppi> via their mailing list
<marcoceppi> and have been accepted into their community
<jrgifford> if it wasn't for Marco, Ask Ubuntu would exist, but it wouldn't be what it is now.
<oli> Indeed. Somebody has to moderate jrgifford :)
<nhandler> #vote marcoceppi
<meetingology> Please vote on: marcoceppi
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<nhandler> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhandler
<Pendulum> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Pendulum
<cyphermox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cyphermox
<jrgifford> oli: ;D
<dinda> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from dinda
<nhandler> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: marcoceppi
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<marcoceppi> Thank you guys for your support!
<nhandler> Congratulations marcoceppi
<marcoceppi>  Thank you board members for your time!
<CesarGomez> congrats
<JoseGutierrez_> congrats !!!!
<jrgifford> congrats marcoceppi!!
<Andphe> marcoceppi, congrats !!
<Unit193> Congrats marcoceppi
<ajmitch> marcoceppi: well done
<EuzkoArima> congrats marco
<dinda> marcoceppi; keep up the great work!
<nhandler> Congratulations and welcome to all of our new members!
<bkerensa> Thanks
<bkerensa> :D
<Darkwing> I tried calling kdub but, it went to voicemail nhandler.
<bkerensa> nhandler: So does MarkS send us our welcome letter by Perl Camel?
<bkerensa> =o
<nhandler> Darkwing: Thanks. There is always next month (or another RMB meeting)
<nhandler> bkerensa: You'll have to wait and see ;)
<CesarGomez> tks
<paultag> ok, </paultag>
<dinda> great group of candidates tonight - congrats everyone
<CesarGomez> tks
<EuzkoArima> thanks
<MarkDude> Great folks just joined- good deal
<nhandler> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Oct 21 01:14:56 2011 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2011/ubuntu-meeting.2011-10-21-00.02.moin.txt
<ajmitch> nhandler: so I wonder if it's worth me applying for membership, which I still have indirectly through ~ubuntu-dev
 * ajmitch would guess not
<marcoceppi> Congrats all!
<nhandler> ajmitch: No need if you have the ~ubuntu-dev membership
<Andphe> now to #ubuntu-party ?
<CesarGomez> same marcoceppi nice job
<CesarGomez> lol Andphe
<Unit193> Good deal
<bkerensa> nhandler: How do I go about getting the cloak and such?
<MarkDude> First you have to learn the secret handshake
<MarkDude> ;)
<Andphe> MarkDude, lol
<SergioMeneses> jajajaja
#ubuntu-meeting 2011-10-23
<TorbenBeta> Hello.
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-15
<mdeslaur> hello!
<tyhicks> hello
<jdstrand> hi!
<jdstrand> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 15 18:01:53 2012 UTC.  The chair is jdstrand. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jdstrand> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> I'll go first
<jdstrand> I'm on community this week
<jdstrand> I'll be doing some packaging work for dbx updates
<jdstrand> I've got some more python updates coming
<jdstrand> I've also got patch piloting to finish today
<jdstrand> and finally install audits
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm working on backporting the munin fixes, and learning how it works to write a test script
<mdeslaur> the munin fixes seem to break a few things, so I'm fixing the regressions too
<sbeattie> mdeslaur: I use munin locally so I can help test.
 * jdstrand hugs mdeslaur 
<mdeslaur> after that, I'll pick something from the list
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: cool
<mdeslaur> that's pretty much it from me
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm focusing again on apparmor this week
<sbeattie> I need to finish up reviewing a couple of things on the mail list and bug reports
<sbeattie> I'm planning on starting to look at xace and other display manager issues
<sbeattie> I'll probably pick up a couple of other misc apparmor things this week as well
<jjohansen> sbeattie: kick /me for xace stuff when you get their
<sbeattie> jjohansen: okay, thanks
<jjohansen> s/their/there
<sbeattie> that's pretty much it for me; micahg, you're up
<jdstrand> micah had a last minute errand, so he isn't here
<jdstrand> I'll report for him
<jdstrand> the webkit backport for 11.10 had some technical hurdles that pushed it back and we need to do an archive grep to make sure the update doesn't break things
<jdstrand> micahg will be working on how to tell me how to get him the info he needs for the ABI change
<jdstrand> then based on the grep, get the final oneiric packaging uploaded along with any rdeps that need patching/rebuilds
<jdstrand> this work will make it so the packaging will be the same on 12.04 and earlier aiui, so that will greatly speed-up updates in the future
<jdstrand> 12.04 webkit testing will be performed and it copied to precise-proposed
<jdstrand> and then iterating on 10.04 to get a preliminary build going
<jdstrand> tyhicks: you're up
<tyhicks> As of today, my focus shifts to the apparmor dbus work
<tyhicks> I've started reviewing the notes provided by jj and will sync up with him as I have questions
<tyhicks> Any spare cycles that I have will be spent on a couple eCryptfs bugs but nothing too urgent
<tyhicks> That's it for me
<tyhicks> jjohansen: You're up
<jjohansen> I need to fix a new locking issue I introduced when doing the proper fix for bug#1056078. I need to kick some display manager confinement stuff over to sbeattie, some more dbus stuff over to tyhicks and then I am going to get the env filtering beta up for people to experiement with
<smileE17> Maaz I am Geoffrey De Belie
<jjohansen> jdstrand: on the env side their won't be any setting/pinning any time soon
<smileE17> Maaz: I hate you
<mdeslaur> party crasher
<mdeslaur> jjohansen: back to you
<jjohansen> heh I think I am done, sarnold over to you
<sarnold> I'm on triage this week; I replaced my suspect ssd with one that I hope will provide me with reliable builds. we'll see. I've got qt4-x11 and perl to do this week, and if the builds are repeatable, qt4-x11 at least looks doable. :)
<sarnold> jdstrand: back to you
<mdeslaur> sarnold: what do you mean by "looks doable"?
<sarnold> mdeslaur: the fix is incredibly simple, shouldn't have much impact on anything else. if I can get repeatable builds, it's unlikely to cause regressions for anything, and I'll probably be able to get an update out.
<mdeslaur> ok, I see. good.
<sarnold> mdeslaur: there's multiple perl problems, and I've not yet investigated them; I feel that it is unlikely I'll get that out this week. we'll see.
<mdeslaur> sarnold: yeah, some of those a "low" and don't necessarily have obvious upstream fixes...let me know if you can find some of them
<sarnold> mdeslaur: thanks
<mdeslaur> s/a/are/
<mdeslaur> s/can/can't/
<mdeslaur> me write cannot monday do
<sarnold> hehee
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<jdstrand> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<jdstrand> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tcptrack.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/pan.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/boost1.42.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/php-openid.html
<jdstrand> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tryton-server.html
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<jdstrand> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<jdstrand> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 15 18:24:34 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-15-18.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-15-18.01.html
<jdstrand> mdeslaur, sbeattie, tyhicks, jjohansen, sarnold: thanks!
<sarnold> thanks :)
<sbeattie> jdstrand: thanks!
<tyhicks> thanks!
<jjohansen> thanks jdstrand
<mdeslaur> thanks jdstrand
<bdrung> !dmb-ping
<ubottu> bdrung, cody-somerville, Laney, micahg, barry, tumbleweed, stgraber: DMB ping
<tumbleweed> o/
<Laney> hey
<Laney> I can be here, but I'd rather be excused if possible (if we otherwise have quorum)
<Dude-man> the hardware seems to behave strange leds just blnk on and off, which it does a few times normal on startup... but now just does continuasly
<TheLordOfTime> Dude-man, #ubuntu for support btw
<Dude-man> it works fine on ubuntu...
<TheLordOfTime> !support
<ubottu> The official ubuntu support channel is #ubuntu. Also see http://ubuntu.com/support and http://ubuntuforums.org and http://askubuntu.com
<Dude-man> TheLordOfTime, sorry don't understand... no problem in ubuntu... just solus... but the pulse I'm guessing is more updated that even the debian repos
<TheLordOfTime> Dude-man, ah, well i assumed that you were asking support questions :P
<bdrung> cody-somerville, micahg, stgraber: where are you?
<cody-somerville> I'm here.
<cody-somerville> :)
<bdrung> we are quorable
<tumbleweed> micahg said he may turn up late
<Dude-man> Oh Sorry I had the wrong forum irc channel selected... meant to ask in solusos, my mistake
<tumbleweed> bdrung: will you chair? You are next in rotation after stgraber
<TheLordOfTime> :)
<bdrung> tumbleweed: yes if no-one else volunteer
<bdrung> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 15 19:10:36 2012 UTC.  The chair is bdrung. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<bdrung> #meetingtopic DMB meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:
<bdrung> #topic Review of previous action items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Review of previous action items
<bdrung> micahg to document the zentyal packageset
<tumbleweed> doesn't appear to have happened yet: http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/quantal/zentyal
<bdrung> laney to delete network-manager packageset
<bdrung> #subtopic laney to delete network-manager packageset
<tumbleweed> that was deleted todya
<bdrung> okay
<bdrung> #subtopic laney to contact menesis about schooltool packageset
<Laney> seems used
<Laney> there was an upload to that stuff recently
<bdrung> so we keep that package set
<bdrung> #subtopic netbook/unr/mobile packagesets
<bdrung> these packagesets still appear on http://people.canonical.com/~stgraber/package_sets/quantal/
 * micahg waves
<tumbleweed> yeah, they still exist
<bdrung> who took this action item?
<Laney> we have to ask the tb to deal with it
<Laney> or did we?
<tumbleweed> I thought we did
<Laney> well, someone there has to delete them
<Laney> can we action our TB friend? :-)
<bdrung> we will give him the action item unless he objects. ;)
<bdrung> #subtopic stefanor to create a UDS session
<Laney> err, stgraber
<Laney> oh, sorry, thought that was you giving the action
<tumbleweed> done
<bdrung> Laney: yes, i was referring to stgraber
<Laney> you didn't #action
<bdrung> #action stgraber to delete netbook/unr/mobile packagesets
<meetingology> ACTION: stgraber to delete netbook/unr/mobile packagesets
<bdrung> now back to the UDS session. tumbleweed, do we have a timeslot?
<tumbleweed> bdrung: no. Is there anything I should request?
<bdrung> tumbleweed: i think having the blueprint should be enough.
<bdrung> do you have the blueprint at hand?
<tumbleweed> yes, it should be
<tumbleweed> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-q-dmb-discussion
<bdrung> #subtopic micahg to ask docs people if they want to apply for a packageset
<micahg> bdrung: sorry, not yet, will try to do before UDS
<bdrung> #topic PerPackageUploader Applications
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:  PerPackageUploader Applications
<bdrung> #suptopic Luis Henriques' PerPackageUploader Application
 * henrix waves
<bdrung> henrix: can you introduce yourself?
<henrix> bdrung: sure
<henrix> Hi!  So, my name's Luis Henriques and I've joined the Ubuntu kernel team early this year.
<henrix> I've been working on the stable kernel team, focusing on preparing the kernels for the Ubuntu stable releases.
<henrix> Since the SRU process has been one of my main activities within the team, I believe its now time for me to stop bugging my team for sponsoring my packages and get upload rights for the kernel packages.
<henrix> and i guess that's pretty much if for an intro :)
<henrix> s/if/it
 * ogasawara gives henrix a big +1 for kernel upload rights
<sconklin> +1, I've sponsored a number of his packages
<bdrung> henrix: have you (as long time Linux user) any packaging experience before joining the kernel team?
<henrix> bdrung: well, not much. i maintain a small debian pkg (a web browser named xxxterm)
<bjf> i'm very happy with the work henrix has been doing, +1
<henrix> bdrung: don't blame me for the package name :)
<herton> +1 from me as well, I think henrix is prepared, has been working on all latest SRU kernel packages
<bdrung> henrix: how involved are you in the community outside of the kernel team?
<henrix> bdrung: currently i'm mainly involved with the kernel.
<henrix> bdrung: i've been doing bug triagging, etc but pretty much on the kernel packages
<bdrung> has someone else questions?
 * tumbleweed doesn't
<bdrung> henrix: you wrote that you dislike the complexity of required interactions between different teams within Ubuntu. Does this apply to SRU process or other areas, too?
<bdrung> s/apply to/only apply to the/
<henrix> bdrung: well, i don't exactly "dislike", it was just a little bit difficult to put all the pieces together
<henrix> bdrung: the information regarding all these different interactions is all in the wiki... somewhere :)
<henrix> bdrung: that's what i'm referring to in my application form
<bdrung> all information is in the wiki, but you do not know where to find them.
<henrix> bdrung: i meant that initially i had to search for it, or bug someone on the team to point me to that info.
<bdrung> henrix: have you any ideas how reduce the complexity and/or show how these pieces fit together?
<henrix> bdrung: well, i guess that's what the wiki is for -- maybe there are links missing between some of the pages/categories, but i don't see any easy solution
<bdrung> are we ready to vote or are there questions?
<henrix> bdrung: that's the typical information management problem: it all makes sense now that i know where to look
 * bdrung nods.
<bdrung> #vote Should Luis Henriques become upload rights for the linux-* packages?
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Luis Henriques become upload rights for the linux-* packages?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<tumbleweed> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from tumbleweed
<micahg> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from micahg
<Laney> (~ubuntu-kernel-uploaders)
<Laney> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Laney
<cody-somerville> +1 based on endorsements and upload history
<meetingology> +1 based on endorsements and upload history received from cody-somerville
<bdrung> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Luis Henriques become upload rights for the linux-* packages?
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bdrung> henrix: congrats.
<henrix> thanks!
<Laney> :>
<bjf> nice job henrix
<Laney> go forth and break^wfix things
<tumbleweed> :)
<henrix> heh, i'll try :)
<bdrung> the kernel team is doing good work. my last few kernel crashes were all caused by hardware problem (and not software problem).
<bdrung> #subtopic Andreas Hasenack's PerPackageUploader Application
<ahasenack> hello
<bdrung> ahasenack: hello. can you introduce yourself?
<ahasenack> I'm Andreas Hasenack, I started working on the Landscape project in March 2008
<ahasenack> it has a client component called landscape-client, which is a package in Ubuntu main nowadays, and we do periodic releases
<ahasenack> including SRUs, which I have been doing in the past few years
<Laney> got a lunk handy?
<Laney> link
<ahasenack> https://landscape.canonical.com
<bdrung> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AndreasHasenack/LandscapeClientPerPackageUploadApplication
<Laney> not that, to your application :P
<Laney> thanks
<ahasenack> :)
<ahasenack> sorry :)
<bdrung> Laney: sorry
<ahasenack> So for the past few SRUs the sponsors have asked me to apply for a per-package upload application for landscape-client
<ahasenack> and here I am
<ahasenack> oh, sorry, I failed to mention that my work in Landscape is QA
<Laney> how come seb128 hasn't endorsed? :)
<Laney> (common recent sponsor)
<mdz> o/
<Laney> oh looked like he had sponsored more
<Laney> nm
<ahasenack> I don't remember now if I asked him
<Laney> we'll need to get out of the way of the TB, so let's speed up
<Laney> is there anything particular/tricky about the landscape packaging?
<ahasenack> I think the fact that one source builds in many releases of ubuntu without changes
<ahasenack> meaning, we have some | in the depends line, and the rules file also tries to be smart about it
<ahasenack> we use substvars for that
<micahg> ahasenack: I assume the changelogs are preserved for in archive builds?
<ahasenack> micahg: yes, I take special note of the changelogs for each sru
<ahasenack> for each release
<ahasenack> in the beginning I didn't, and that was flagged in the review
<bdrung> ahasenack: landscape-client 12.04-0ubuntu0.12.04.0 closes a big bunch of bugs with one changelog entry. wouldn't it be better to just close one bug and mark the other as duplicates of the first one?
<ahasenack> bdrung: well, they weren't really duplicates
<ahasenack> bdrung: we introduced a big new feature
<ahasenack> bdrung: ideally, that would have been a blueprint
<micahg> they were all upstream bugs as well AFAICT...
<ahasenack> bdrung: each bug basically mapped to a branch of code that slowly introduced the new feature
<bdrung> aha, okay
<ahasenack> bdrung: it was the way we found to not pollute the changelog too much, but still record all the bugs
<ahasenack> otherwise it would be like a commit log
<bdrung> ahasenack: are there plans to bring the landscape client to other distributions like Debian?
<ahasenack> bdrung: that's more of a business decision, not a technical one
<bdrung> #vote Should Andreas Hasenack become upload rights for package landscape-client?
<ahasenack> bdrung: out of my pay grade :)
<meetingology> Please vote on: Should Andreas Hasenack become upload rights for package landscape-client?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<tumbleweed> +1 [ package is in fairly good shape and ahasenack has been looking after it for a long time ]
<meetingology> +1 [ package is in fairly good shape and ahasenack has been looking after it for a long time ] received from tumbleweed
<bdrung> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from bdrung
<micahg> +1, good history, takes criticism well
<meetingology> +1, good history, takes criticism well received from micahg
<cody-somerville> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cody-somerville
<bdrung> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Should Andreas Hasenack become upload rights for package landscape-client?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<bdrung> we had one +1 from Laney via our private channel
<bdrung> ahasenack: congrats to your new upload rights.
<ahasenack> bdrung: thanks
<ahasenack> thank you all
<bdrung> #topic Next chair.
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | DMB meeting Meeting | Current topic:  Next chair.
<tumbleweed> next chair: stgraber [again]. next meeting: UDS
<bdrung> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 15 20:09:30 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-15-19.10.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-15-19.10.html
<pitti> ok, time for TB then
<pitti> kees, mdz, soren, stgraber: c'est l'heure de rÃ©union de TB
<mdz> here but multitasking today
<pitti> there's really just one thing I'd like to talk about, but it seems we are rather short-staffed today
<pitti> cjwatson sent his apologies, and I didn't get a pong of stgraber and soren yet
<pitti> mdz, kees: do you happen to know about the last brainstorm review status? IIRC soren was conducting that?
<pitti> but I guess at this point we can carry it over to the November one
<mdz> no, AFAICT it has fallen on the floor
<pitti> there's nothing on the ML, and nothing on the agenda
<pitti> mdz, kees: do you have any topics?
<mdz> pitti, no
<kees> nothing from me
<wendar> I have ARB elections (not sure the message got through).
<pitti> ok, then I'll just update the agenda wrt. brainstorm review and next meeting
<wendar> But, it sounds like that'll be better handled in email anyway.
<pitti> wendar: yes, I just replied; but that's still running?
<wendar> yes, if you all are fine with confirming via email tomorrow, that'll be best
<pitti> yes from my side
<wendar> ok, will do that, thanks!
<pitti> ok, then that's it I guess
<pitti> thanks!
<kees> wooo
<pitti> time for sleeping then
<pitti> not sure about the next meeting, it'll be during UDS
<pitti> I can't really chair then
<pitti> we'll figure it out
<pitti> good night!
<JoseeAntonioR> huats, itnet7: ping
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-16
<jamespage> o/
<adam_g_> o/
 * smb waits 2
<jamespage> adam_g, hows sd?
<P05TMAN> Here for CoLoCo, albeit extremely early.
<smb> \o
<jamespage> OK - lets go then...
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 16 16:01:08 2012 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
 * jamespage gets ready to whip himself
<jamespage> jamespage and Ursinha to look into aligning release team and server team tracking reports
<jamespage> still not done; will get that sorted for next cycle (promise)
<jamespage> #action jamespage and Ursinha to look into aligning release team and server team tracking reports
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage and Ursinha to look into aligning release team and server team tracking reports
<jamespage> jamespage to provide info to hggdh about how to run iSCSI and MAAS tests for the ISO
<jamespage> again not completed = c/f
<jamespage> #action jamespage to provide info to hggdh about how to run iSCSI and MAAS tests for the ISO
<meetingology> ACTION: jamespage to provide info to hggdh about how to run iSCSI and MAAS tests for the ISO
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> #topic Quantal Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Quantal Development
<jamespage> hopefully not much of that going on now.
<jamespage> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server/release-bugs.html
<jamespage> looking goog
<jamespage> good even
<jamespage> #link http://reports.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-q-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<jamespage> a few outstanding - one of which I think is resolved but that needs confirmation
<jamespage> the samba printing bug is still proving hard to reproduce.
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> onto blueprints
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-quantal/group/topic-quantal-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> Not going to review individual BP's; but suffice to say POSTPONED is appropriate now...
<jamespage> some WI's may carry over to next release - please do so
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> openstack design summit is currently underway - lots of representation from Ubuntu Server Team
<jamespage> Ubuntu Dev Summit in 1.5 weeks time - don't miss it
<jamespage> anything from anyone else?
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
<jamespage> hggdh: around?
<jamespage> nope - ok moving on
<arosales> Hello, sorry I am late
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> uh
<jamespage> hey arosales - could be the quickest meeting on record!
<smb> Not really much (or anything) to mention
<smb> ..
<jamespage> smb, actually bug 1054129
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1054129 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Quantal) "reboot with -vga cirrus can result in broken output" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1054129
<jamespage> is that the same issue that you where looking at with the cirrus driver in KVM?
 * smb shrugs
<smb> I would first need to read the bug report
<hallyn> think it was taken care of by removing a cirrus driver from kernel?
<smb> hallyn, yes for now
<smb> Will re-appear in R to hopefully sort things
<jamespage> hallyn, I think we can close that bug for the time being them - I can't reproduce....
<jamespage> and that would explain why...
<jamespage> go-oh
<hallyn> "doctor, it hurts when".... "then remove the driver"
<jamespage> lol
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> next...
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<jamespage> anything rbasak?
<rbasak> Nothing to report. It's looking good for release!
<jamespage> excellent
<rbasak> Any questions for me?
<jamespage> sounds like no
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Open Discussion
<jamespage> anyone have anything to raise?
<arosales> \o
<jamespage> arosales, go for it
<arosales> jamespage:  did you cover https://blueprints.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-server?searchtext=servercloud+q delivery status?
 * arosales apologizes again for being late
<arosales> ie we have some BP with non-closed/done "Delivery" states
<jamespage> not specifically but general director was complete blueprints and carry over any relevant work items
<arosales> jamespage could we step through the BP with non done delivery, ie Beta Available, Informational or Deferred states.
<arosales> with the folks that are here
<arosales> rbasak: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-arm-deployment
<arosales> Delivery = Good progress
<rbasak> One to postpone, and the other is done. I'll amend now.
<arosales> m_3: how do you feel about [mark-mims] Charm testing on ARM (emulation only): TODO
 * rbasak just postponed that
<arosales> rbasak: m_3: did you guys get an opportunity to test ARM on MAAS?
<rbasak> AIUI, it's pending some more work on m_3 on the charm side of things
<rbasak> I haven't fully synced with m_3 yet
<arosales> ok perhaps m_3 can chime in
<arosales> jamespage: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-bug-triage-review
<arosales> most of those are for Ursinha
<arosales> do we want to postpone those?
<jamespage> I've deffered the BP generally
<jamespage> done
<arosales> jamespage; thanks
<arosales> m_3: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-unit-tests
<arosales> or jimbaker^
<jimbaker> arosales, that's currently making good progress
<arosales> jimbaker: feel wi should be done before end of week?
<m_3> unit tests we should close out
<arosales> run charmtester against maas environment: TODO
<arosales> m_3: this should also help with the earlier question in regards to ARM deployment
<m_3> there're a couple that're inprogress, but they're not tied to a cycle... I'm thinking we postpone then in that blueprint
<m_3> yeah, it's the same work-item
<arosales> ok, I'll mark the BP as "Beta  Available"
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-release-process is for spamaps
<arosales> just one wi there create spec to allow charms to depend on juju versions: INPROGRESS
<arosales> skipping https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-openstack-deployment-on-armnt
<arosales> jamespage: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-bigdata-hadoop
<jamespage> arosales, I deferred that blueprint
<arosales> sorry that is deferred
<arosales> :-)
<jamespage> (only just :-))
<arosales> m_3: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-juju-charm-best-practices
<arosales> looks mostly done
<arosales> jcastro [jorge] Choose a single place for presenting flagbearer charms (charm browser?): TODO
<m_3> thought it was... looking
<arosales> I'll sync up with jcastro on his remaining work items and them move delivery to "implemented"
<arosales> rbasak: may want to sync up with craig on https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-server-benchmark-and-performance
<arosales> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-q-awstools looks mostly done. I'll sync up with utlemming on remaining wi
<arosales> jamespage: ok that covers the BPs with non done "Delivery" status
<arosales> jamespage:  back to you, thanks for letting me interject
<jamespage> arosales, ack - thanks for that
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:  Announce next meeting date and time
<jamespage> October 23rd at 1600 GMT
<jamespage> right here.
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 16 16:26:59 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-16-16.01.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-16-16.01.html
<jamespage> thanks everyone - sparse today due to ODS...
<arosales> jamespage: thanks for chair'ing
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 16 17:00:07 2012 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Quantal
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<herton> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<henrix> o/
<arges> o/
<sforshee> o/
<ppisati> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> Nothing new this week.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Quantal Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> With 12.10 scheduled to release this Thurs Oct 18, we do not foresee any
<ogasawara> critical kernel bugs which would warrant an upload and require a respin
<ogasawara> of images.  All patches currently queued will be available in the first
<ogasawara> kernel SRU following 12.10's release.  Some of these queued patches
<ogasawara> include the v3.5.6 and v3.5.7 upstream stable patch sets as well as
<ogasawara> additional misc bug fixes.
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara>  * Thurs Oct 18 - 12.10 Final (2 days!)
<ogasawara>  * UDS-R - Oct 29 - Nov 1
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's (sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's (sconklin)
<sconklin> == 2012-10-16 (weekly) ==
<sconklin> Currently we have 36 CVEs on our radar, with 1 CVE added and 1 CVE retired this week.
<sconklin> See the CVE matrix for the current list:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<sconklin> Overall the backlog has decreased slightly this week:
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/status/cve-metrics.txt
<sconklin> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/CVE-linux.txt
<sconklin> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Oneiric/Lucid/Hardy (bjf/herton/henrix)
<henrix> Here is the status for the main kernels, until today (October 16):
<henrix>  * Hardy - Nothing in this cycle
<henrix>  * Lucid - In Preparation; 0 CVEs; 1 upstream stable release(s); (156 commits)
<henrix>  * Oneiric - In Preparation; 0 CVEs; 2 upstream stable release(s); (156 commits)
<henrix>  * Precise - In Preparation; 0 CVEs; 1 upstream stable release(s); (115 commits)
<henrix> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<henrix> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<henrix>  * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<henrix> Future stable cadence cycles:
<henrix>  * https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QuantalQuetzal/ReleaseInterlock
<henrix> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Should we still have a meeting next week, since UDS is fast approaching?
<ogasawara> I vote to skip this meeting till after UDS.
<rtg> jsalisbury, no reason not to. I'd cancel the one right after UDS
<rtg> jsalisbury, do what the boss says
<jsalisbury> ack
<jsalisbury> Anything else?
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 16 17:05:28 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-16-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-16-17.00.html
<uros1>  
<joey> FunnyLookinHat: me
<FunnyLookinHat> joey, shoot
<FunnyLookinHat> Did I miss it ?
<joey> 10 mins I think
<joey> if the email was correct
<FunnyLookinHat> oh
<FunnyLookinHat> If my GMT conversion was correct....
<Garheade> Right
<FunnyLookinHat> I hate daylight savings.
<joey> same here
<joey> ah there's P05TMAN
<P05TMAN> Here as a member of CoLoCo
<joey> and mfisch
<mfisch> also CoLoCo
<joey> kweinert: ping
<effiejayx> hey all
<joey> nealmcb: ping
<joey> Hey Effie
<P05TMAN> Yeah, had dental surgery. I guess android boots you out after a period of inactivity
<joey> there's stokes91
<stokes91> o/
<FunnyLookinHat> Rad.
 * joey joey and mfisch are poking the others.
<joey>  /me fail
<joey> there's ToyKeeper
<joey> maybe lamont will wake up
<joey> who is running this show anyway? I need to get back to work :-D
<nealmcb> joey: Hey - fancy meeting you here!
<joey> nealmcb: I dress up for special occasions :-)
<P05TMAN> Stokes91 I believe is our official leader of the CoLoCo....
<stokes91> Hellos!
 * Garheade Coloco
<joey> hey stokes91 and Garheade
<nealmcb> Nice turnout, gang!
<kweinert> Hi all.
<joey> I don't see anything on the calendar for this ... are we where we should be?
<Garheade> Joey: Yes
<czajkowski> aloha
<joey> hey laura!
<czajkowski> itnet7: effiejayx huats ping
<joey> ok I feel better now :-)
<effiejayx> :)
<effiejayx> here czajkowski
<czajkowski> ok
<czajkowski> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 16 19:59:43 2012 UTC.  The chair is czajkowski. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<huats> I am here :)
<joey> me
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda
<stokes91> o/
<czajkowski> firstly welcome to our loco council we've had a bit of a reshuffle
<czajkowski> so effiejayx welcome aboard
<czajkowski> we have aplogies from coolbhavi
<effiejayx> thanks :)
<czajkowski> toros: ping
<toros> czajkowski: we are here
<toros> hello
<ulysses> o/
<czajkowski> #topic Hungarian Loco Re approval
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Hungarian Loco Re approval
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HungarianTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012
<czajkowski> toros: so thanks for coming to the meeting
<czajkowski> how is the loco doing?
<toros> pretty well... we are preparing for the new release
<lamont> joey: meh
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> nice wiki page
<toros> thank you
<ttbro1> toros: I have to say that the wiki page is very impressive :)
<czajkowski> so how has your team grown over the last 2 years?
<toros> we have many new users on our site... as far as I remember, we had somewhere around 18000 in 2010
<toros> right now we have 26000 registered users
<toros> we have some new activists
<toros> I hope some of them will become Ubuntu member sooner or later
<ttbro1> wow, that a lot O.o
<huats> :)
<huats> great !
<czajkowski> impressive list http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-hu/events/history
<itnet7> I really thought you did well on your teams Wiki, good work on the Team Reports too!
<effiejayx> toros, you seem to participate in many projects to foster free software in eduation and public sector, do you colaborate with other COmunity Projects_
<effiejayx> ?
<toros> effiejayx: yes.
<effiejayx> toros, could you elaborate on your experience sharing, who have you shared with?
<toros> we collaborate with the FSF.hu foundation
<toros> and sometimes also with other small communities
<huats> Have you been able to use the UDS to improve your loco participation ?
<effiejayx> toros, any colaborative work with debian folks?
<toros> huats: not really, but it was a great experience for us
<czajkowski> if any other members of the loco want to add stuff please feel free to chat also
<toros> effiejayx: no, there isn't really an active debian community in Hungary
<czajkowski> I see on your road map you've a plan to do: We are going to update our Ubuntu version for the secondary school leaving exam based on Ubuntu 13.04.  Can you tell us some more about this
<czajkowski> as that seems a rather large task
<toros> there are many Debian users, but they aren't really active locally
<effiejayx> toros, ohhh how strange.
<hajni> czajkowski, i am responsible for that project - we have a special version of ubuntu adjusted to the needs of the hungarian ICT secondary school leaving examination
<czajkowski> hajni: oh can you tell us about that
<czajkowski> I'm sure a lot of locos would be intersted in hearing about this
<ttbro1> yes please
<hajni> czajkowski, we would like to promote students to take that exam on ubuntu instead of windows
<czajkowski> do you have to work with the schools or goverment with this?
<hajni> the first step is to make the software environment officially accepted by the hungarian office of education
<hajni> it was a rather long process, but we managed to deal with the administrative difficulties
<itnet7> Good work on that hajni !
<czajkowski> hajni: please do post this to the loco contacts list
<czajkowski> it would be great to hear about this kinda project
<effiejayx> that's great hajni
<czajkowski> ok any other comments before we go to a vote
<huats> ready to vote
<effiejayx> ready
<hajni> czajkowski, ok, sure
<czajkowski> #voters effiejayx itnet7 huats czajkowski
<meetingology> Current voters: czajkowski effiejayx huats itnet7
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on the Hungarian loco reapproval
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the Hungarian loco reapproval
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<itnet7> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from itnet7
<huats> +1
<effiejayx> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from huats
<meetingology> +1 received from effiejayx
<czajkowski> +1 fantasic work
<meetingology> +1 fantasic work received from czajkowski
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the Hungarian loco reapproval
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<nealmcb> hajni: I'd also love to hear more about the exam work you're doing.  what does the exam itself cover?
<toros> thank you!
<huats> keep doing that way !
<czajkowski> #action czajkowski update LP with team
<meetingology> ACTION: czajkowski update LP with team
<ulysses> thank you
<itnet7> Very good job Ubuntu-Hu!!
<nealmcb> Congrats!
<hajni> thank you
<P05TMAN> Woot-woot
<effiejayx> congratulations ubuntu hungary LoCo Team,
<Garheade> Congrats
<czajkowski> #topic Colorado LoCo reapprocal
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Colorado LoCo reapprocal
<ttbro1> Congrats to Ubuntu-hu, they done a great job :)
<czajkowski> stokes91: welcome aboard
<stokes91> Hello!
<stokes91> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColoradoTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012
<czajkowski> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ColoradoTeam/ReApprovalApplication2012
<czajkowski> sorry dropped off there
<czajkowski> stokes91: so how is the locoo doing ?
<ttbro1> I have to admit, that is a small membership base :/
<stokes91> Well, I have really just begun myself
<stokes91> From the people I have met, we are excited to ramp up involvement
<Garheade> He's doing a fine job.
<P05TMAN> Second that
<nealmcb> Indeed!
<czajkowski> well anyone can talk in here so if others from the team want to voice stuff please do
<FunnyLookinHat> Just an FYI - I was the previous team lead and I handed off a transition to stokes91 about 1 month ago.
<czajkowski> nods
<FunnyLookinHat> Since stokes91 has taken over, he's been pretty busy planning informal get-togethers, getting ready for the release party, and trying to brainstorm ( on his own and amongst other team members ) for ideas to increase LoCo activity.
<czajkowski> FunnyLookinHat: so how have the previous 2 years been ?
<FunnyLookinHat> czajkowski, Slow and steady.
<FunnyLookinHat> We've tried a few different things besides the usual release parties, and had mixed results.
<stokes91> My first meetin with the group was at the Ubuntu Hour at the Falling Rock, and I met a number of the acive members here.
<czajkowski> I don't see many events on http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/coloradoteam/events/history  do you guys have them listed elsewhere?
<FunnyLookinHat> So we're going to just keep tweaking the formula to see "what works" in Colorado.
<FunnyLookinHat> czajkowski, We informally partner with a few local meetups that bulk up our activity
<FunnyLookinHat> This is the most popular one: http://www.meetup.com/The-Denver-Boulder-Linux-Meetup-Group/
<mfisch> the size of the state makes it a bit difficult to attend events regularly for some people
<stokes91> FRom the feedback I have received from active members and less-active but interested people, my plan is to have many more smaller meetups with diversified topics to interest larger numbers of small groups.
<FunnyLookinHat> Kevin organizes that meetup and generally works closely with the LoCo when he needs more Ubuntu related content.
<czajkowski> stokes91: nice idea
<czajkowski> that does help
<czajkowski> and every loco is so different the one plan for all doesn't work so you need to find something that works for your team
<stokes91> Of course in tandem with what we have established already works [;
<ttbro1> that will help indeed stokes 91
<stokes91> Thx!
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> sounds like a plan
<jimbaker> this partnership sounds like a good idea. for example, i just presented juju to the boulder linux user group. there was some overlap in members attending from the ubuntu loco. likely we could have increased that with better coordination
<FunnyLookinHat> Ultimately - the biggest thing the LoCo needs is a new leader who has much more free time - and that just happens to be stokes91   :)
<nealmcb> One of the bigger outreach activies we've done over the years is not listed as an event, but is noted on the reapplicaion page.  Jim Hutchinson has led our participation in the local Colorado Technology in Education meeting.  Too bad Jim isn't here to update on the 2011 event.
<FunnyLookinHat> jimbaker, +1
<ttbro1> stokes91: your welcome and I wish all the best in the vote :)
<czajkowski> nods
<czajkowski> FunnyLookinHat: yes that also helps and youv'e done a great job keeping the team going till someone else could take the torch from you
<effiejayx> well I see some good spirits to make this team rock harder that it does now
<nealmcb> We also distribute CDs to other groups like the Boulder Linux User Group and the DevOps group
<czajkowski> nealmcb: great
<czajkowski> nealmcb: random I know, but how do you distribute them
<nealmcb> And Jim Baker just gave a juju talk for the BLUG
<czajkowski> I'm always curious on how teams do that
<joey> stokes91: can you take an action to get in touch with Jim H to see if there's another TIE event for this year?
<joey> stokes91: via the email list should be good. That's always been a very worthwhile event.
<stokes91> Absolutely.
<joey> Thanks stokes91
<nealmcb> The BLUG has a raffle at the end of each meeting, and/or we just hand out to those that are interested
<czajkowski> ok any other comments before we vote folks?
<effiejayx> FunnyLookinHat, I believe The Colorado US team should document this things a bit better.
<FunnyLookinHat> effiejayx, totally agree, we'll make that a point for the next two years
<P05TMAN> I'd be happy to assist in documentation.
<czajkowski> #vote please vote on the reapproval of the Colorado loco
<meetingology> Please vote on: please vote on the reapproval of the Colorado loco
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<Garheade> effie: I think several of use have noticed the need for better documentation
 * med_ votes for
<ttbro1> +0
<effiejayx> also to be honest, the work the team has done is good, but it needs to be more constant and also published somewere of other locos to see
<med_> +1
<Garheade> +1
<czajkowski> med_: only council can vote
<mfisch> good try med_! ;)
 * med_ was in another meeting....
<kweinert> +1
<itnet7> +0 I like the direction your going, but I think the team does need a little time
<meetingology> +0 I like the direction your going, but I think the team does need a little time received from itnet7
<itnet7> to get back up to speed
<czajkowski> +0 I'm just not seeing activity and I'd love you guys to come back in 6+ months with more stuff documnted.
<meetingology> +0 I'm just not seeing activity and I'd love you guys to come back in 6+ months with more stuff documnted. received from czajkowski
<kweinert> (sorry)
<czajkowski> huats: effiejayx
<effiejayx> +0 It has a group of people willing to make magic happen
<meetingology> +0 It has a group of people willing to make magic happen received from effiejayx
 * czajkowski prods huats 
<huats> +0
<meetingology> +0 received from huats
<czajkowski> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: please vote on the reapproval of the Colorado loco
<meetingology> Votes for:0 Votes against:0 Abstentions:4
<meetingology> Deadlock, casting vote may be used
<joey> I think the good news is that the colorado loco has a lot of folks here for this meeting. That should demonstrate that the group is alive. :-)
<czajkowski> joey: exactly
<stokes91> Okay, cool. What does this mean we need to do in the mean time?
<nealmcb> Are there any models from other big sparse US states you could point us to for ideas?
<joey> stokes91: that means we have 6 months to put on a good showing and come back
<czajkowski> stokes91: so it means keep up the actiity and good work you're doing
<effiejayx> joey,  alive and kicking indeed, We hope to see you next cycle
<czajkowski> but we;d love to have you back in a few months when more stuff has been done or documetned
<stokes91> Okay cool beans!
<effiejayx> I can follow up on your work if needed
<nealmcb> So we remain an active team, but for a more limited time?
<czajkowski> nealmcb: the Florida loco does amazing work
<itnet7> If the team keeps up the momentum, I don't think you'll have any problems when you return and apply
<czajkowski> nealmcb: itnet7 is your man
<huats> it is clearly a way to tell you : we have seen your efforts, but we would like you to continue that way in the next months !
<stokes91> We can do it.
<med_> indeed we can.
<joey> stokes91: and here's the public apology for being so tied up at work that I'm not able to really help. :-(
<nealmcb> :)
<czajkowski> stokes91: you can always email the loco coucnil for ideas or help we're here to help you
<jimbaker> cool :)
<itnet7> nealmcb and stokes91 you can ping me anytime
<ttbro1> stoke 91: I'm sorry that you lose but I do wish you guys all the best in the future :)
<czajkowski> so what this means to the team is it will naturally expire from the approved locoteams on the 22th of this month
<czajkowski> but we do want to see you guys back
<stokes91> Sounds good, I am definitely not chalking this up as a loss,
<nealmcb> Oh dear....
<czajkowski> stokes91: nop please dont take that away from this meeting
<joey> Some trivia: Colorado was the first US State loco team approved and the 2nd US Loco team approved (the first one was a city)
<effiejayx> stokes91,  thank you for stepping up for LoCo Contact and please do ask any questions you may have
<stokes91> Absolutely.
<czajkowski> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 16 20:31:03 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-16-19.59.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-16-19.59.html
<P05TMAN> From weaknesses comes great power and motivation. 6 months &  we'll be back in it
<itnet7> P05TMAN: no doubt!!
<itnet7> bbl
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-18
<hggdh> cyphermox, IdleOne, micahg: it is time
<greg-g> hello hello everyone!
<greg-g> uros1: and bojce are here, yay!
<uros1> hi
<bojce> hello
<greg-g> thanks to you two for all your hard work in the intervening time since your last visit
<hggdh> hi uros1 bojce
<greg-g> but, I should start the meeting first :)
<greg-g> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 18 22:02:08 2012 UTC.  The chair is greg-g. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<greg-g> #voters hggdh micahg cyphermox cjohnston IdleOne
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne cjohnston cyphermox hggdh micahg
<greg-g> oh, and me
<greg-g> #voters hggdh micahg cyphermox cjohnston IdleOne greg-g
<meetingology> Current voters: IdleOne cjohnston cyphermox greg-g hggdh micahg
<hggdh> heh
<greg-g> that's just formality
<greg-g> Let's kick off with uros1
<greg-g> #topic uros1 for membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: uros1 for membership
<uros1> ok fine by me
<greg-g> Hey uros1, no need to introduce as you've been here before :)
<hggdh> and bojce also ;-)
<uros1> ok so what`s next?
<greg-g> so, we had trouble with qourum before and we had a quick discussion on the mailing list
<greg-g> (as some people couldn't make it to this meeting as well)
<greg-g> and I'll let hggdh and I vote, then add in the votes from the mailing list
<greg-g> #vote uros1 for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: uros1 for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<hggdh> +1 (and sorry for all)
<meetingology> +1 (and sorry for all) received from hggdh
<greg-g> +1 # thanks for your work and patience
<meetingology> +1 # thanks for your work and patience received from greg-g
<greg-g> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: uros1 for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<greg-g> plus, we had 3 +1s on the mailing lst
<greg-g> list*
<greg-g> so, congrats and welcome, uros1 !
<uros1> tnx to all
<greg-g> again, apologies for the quorum issue before
<greg-g> alright, bojce
<hggdh> for the record, voted +1 on the ML: PabloRubianes, IdleOne, and SilverFox
<greg-g> same thing
<greg-g> thanks, hggdh
<greg-g> #topic bojce for membership
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: bojce for membership
<greg-g> wave hello bojce :)
<bojce> hi all
<greg-g> :)
<greg-g> #vote bojce for membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: bojce for membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<hggdh> +1 (and, again, sorry for all)
<meetingology> +1 (and, again, sorry for all) received from hggdh
<greg-g> +1 # thanks and again sorry for the delay
<meetingology> +1 # thanks and again sorry for the delay received from greg-g
<greg-g> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: bojce for membership
<meetingology> Votes for:2 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<greg-g> same +1s as before from the mailing list
<greg-g> so, congrats and welcome, bojce !!!
<hggdh> again for the record, voted +1 in the ML for bojce: PabloRubianes, IdleOne, and SilverFox
<cyphermox> +1
<cyphermox> (sorry
<hggdh> :-)
<greg-g> even more +1s, all the better :)
<hggdh> uros1, bojce: welcome in!
<cyphermox> yeah
<bojce> :-)
<bojce> https://launchpad.net/codeofconduct/1.0.1
<greg-g> congrats uros1 an bojce !
<cyphermox> bojce: uros1: welcome!!
<bojce> thank you all
<cyphermox> also, please don't forget to add your blogs to planet.ubuntu.com ;)
<bojce> link is for my colege...sorry
<greg-g> alrighty, I think that's it, unless there is any other business?
<hggdh> not from me
<cyphermox> nope
<greg-g> coolio
<greg-g> thanks all for coming!
<greg-g> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 18 22:08:51 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-18-22.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-18-22.02.html
<cyphermox> it's festivities o'clock
<greg-g> quickest (productive) meeting ever
<uros1> yes, i think
<uros1> but we have still job to do http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-rs/events
<greg-g> looking good
<uros1> i like this one Zajecar
<uros1> its small but nice town
<uros1> with great hacker space
<hggdh> uros1, bojce: I have added you to the ubuntu-members LP team
<uros1> i see, just recieved e-mail
#ubuntu-meeting 2012-10-20
<pretorian> :-X
<Iowan> back - JIT
<elfy> :)
<s-fox> superb
<s-fox> cariboo907 and coffeecat are also here
<Iowan> 10... 9...
<Celene> 8
<s-fox> 8 now? ;)
<Celene> should be at zero already :P
<s-fox> hello howefield :)
<howefield> :)
<cariboo907> good day howefield
<Iowan> ...7
<howefield> hi cariboo907 :)
<Celene> 6
<s-fox> 5
<Celene> 4
<elfy> 4?
<s-fox> 3
<elfy> 4 what?
<Iowan> minutes
<s-fox> by my reckon
<Iowan> now 3
<s-fox> ing
<elfy> oic
<elfy> is it not 18:00 then?
<s-fox> coffeecat you about yet?
<Iowan> we're all anxious
<elfy> or obnoxious
<s-fox> we're all early, you know given we have been "elsewhere" for about 30 minutes or so
<coffeecat> o/
<s-fox> hey coffeecat , just wanted to check you were "here"
<Celene> it says one minute here :D
<Iowan> 2 by mine
<Celene> hey nothingspecial
<nothingspecial> hi Celene
<s-fox> are we already to start?
<elfy> yep
<Iowan> Yes!!!
<s-fox> cariboo907,  coffeecat , Iowan elfy  s-fox ?
<coffeecat> yep
<Iowan> o/
<elfy> o/
<s-fox> alright.... here we go :D
<cariboo907> o/
<s-fox> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Sat Oct 20 18:00:14 2012 UTC.  The chair is s-fox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<s-fox> #voters coffeecat cariboo907 elfy Iowan s-fox
<meetingology> Current voters: Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat elfy s-fox
<s-fox> #topic Ubuntu Forums FC meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Forums FC meeting
<s-fox> #topic Tutorials and Tips Forum - followup
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Tutorials and Tips Forum - followup
<s-fox> we tried to get this sorted in the last meeting, but we needed more discussion.  we went and did that and now i think we are ready to go
<s-fox> this is coffeecat s item,  so you go :)
<coffeecat> I think the thread says it all: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2061708
<elfy> for the benefit of non staff members can I pecise what we talked about
<coffeecat> We can adjust permissions of the old T&T forum to allow posting to old threads but not new ones for a transition period.
<s-fox> i personally am in support of changing the posting permissions
<cariboo907> +1 from me too, I thought it was already done :)
<s-fox> alright, anyone mind if we skip to the vote?
<Iowan> I have no real opinion, but will support
<s-fox> i want to keep things moving and not stalled ;)
<Iowan> OK here
<coffeecat> OK
<elfy> +1 to that
<cariboo907> +1
<s-fox> #vote change permissions on T&T thread as outlined by coffeecat ?
<meetingology> Please vote on: change permissions on T&T thread as outlined by coffeecat ?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: change permissions on T&T thread as outlined by coffeecat ?
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> woot :D
<coffeecat> :)
<cariboo907> Yay
<Iowan> next...
<s-fox> next item is the upgrade.
<s-fox> AFAIK the plugin is done and some kind of launchpad permissions thing is the blocker
<s-fox> anyone know anymore than i do about it?
<elfy> well that's quite straight forward s-fox
<elfy> waiting for IS to deal with 12.10 before they do more
<cariboo907> IF it is working properly, I should be able to get the license number from kylebaker
<elfy> but it'sa lot closer than it was
<s-fox> hmm, okay.  maybe one of us should ping jorge?
<s-fox> i don't want to seem pushy or anything but we were here first and we're nearly finally ready
<elfy> I can talk to IS next week s-fox
<s-fox> thanks elfy
<s-fox> move on ?
<coffeecat> Do we need to pre-warn/involve TV for the theming?
<elfy> would like to see lay of land afore I move to whining
<Celene> coffeecat: we can test that in the test forum
<s-fox> coffeecat,  pass.  wouldn't be a bad idea to keep in the loop
<coffeecat> Yes, it might happen all very quickly and the theme break! :)
<elfy> indeed
<s-fox> just realised something...
<Iowan> I'll save questions/comments about "beans" for later
<s-fox> #topic Upgrade update ;)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Upgrade update ;)
<s-fox> lol
<s-fox> i am going to move on anyway...
<s-fox> #topic layout change followup
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: layout change followup
<s-fox> coffeecat and elfy have done a great job moving things around. thank you!
<s-fox> it seems a lot more logical now
<cariboo907> +1 from me
<s-fox> anything to add?
<coffeecat> Spring clean time! Great fun. :)
<cariboo907> it also seems to be easier to add sub-forums
<Iowan> Is that gonna mess up my GM scripts?
<elfy> hope not Iowan
<s-fox> it has.. i am working on a fix for the move script Iowan
<elfy> it's mess mine too - not done so yet
<s-fox> i hit a little issue and then was rather unwell so hopefully will get on top of it soon
<s-fox> moving on...
<s-fox> #topic New User Restriction
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: New User Restriction
<elfy> would like to talk to you about the scripts at some point s-fox
<s-fox> alright elfy  can do :)
<elfy> k
<elfy> users restrictions is an easy one too
<Iowan> vote?
<s-fox> now that we have made us a little more spam proof there has been talk of lowering some of the post counts needed to unlock the cp
<elfy> propose dropping level - gioven we can change when we need to
<elfy> without coming to a meeting to do it
<s-fox> i think it has been discussed by the team at length and generally we agree so time to vote...
<Iowan> Threads/ welcome message will need to be changed
<elfy> yep
<s-fox> naturally, but that is easy
<Iowan> yep
<elfy> Iowan: I had foreseen that
<Iowan> easily fixed
<elfy> yea
<s-fox> #vote adjust restrictions as outlined in the discussion thread?
<meetingology> Please vote on: adjust restrictions as outlined in the discussion thread?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<cariboo907> +1
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<elfy> +1
<coffeecat> There's the error message to - you don't ahve 50 beans - easily changed.
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: adjust restrictions as outlined in the discussion thread?
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> excellent :)
<Iowan> Whew - that was tough
<s-fox> really close
<coffeecat> lol
<elfy> :)
<elfy> and a nice one to pass too
<s-fox> who wants to volunteer to make the changes?
<Iowan> o/
<s-fox> okay :)
<coffeecat> I'll do that _ i need to edit my sticky.
<s-fox> lol, you guys can sort it out between you?
<coffeecat> Or Iowan instead
<elfy> we could do that and the restr at the same time perhaps
<Iowan> ure...
<coffeecat> !
<Iowan> (s)
<elfy> :)
<s-fox> #action coffeecat and Iowan to make the restrictions changes happen and update bits and pieces
<meetingology> ACTION: coffeecat and Iowan to make the restrictions changes happen and update bits and pieces
<s-fox> ;D
<s-fox> moving on....
<s-fox> #topic create stickies for agenda items
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: create stickies for agenda items
<elfy> thoughts on somewhere for users to at leat talk about agenda items - maybe a forum/thread and some stickies in the support forums (closed) - suggest a sub forum in FFH - stickies in suppport and cafe - no trolling - more or less instaban - lets look for actually productive discourse from people if they want to join in - productive can be negative - if it is in fact looking to move things on
<s-fox> ...
<elfy> that ^^
<elfy> yep those ...
<cariboo907> I'm all for it, as it makes things a little more open for the membership
<s-fox> i think it is also good to have somewhere publicly accessible and not hidden away in areas not generally viewable
<Iowan> as long as we don't over-sticky
<elfy> me too - unsurprisingly lol
<elfy> Iowan: do you think that piskie would over sticky lol
<s-fox> anyone mind going to a vote?
<Iowan> vote
<elfy> I'll be looking for ones to remove :)
<elfy> vote
<cariboo907> me too
<cariboo907> vote
<s-fox> #vote create stickes for agenda items in public
<meetingology> Please vote on: create stickes for agenda items in public
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<Iowan> +
<coffeecat> +1
<elfy> +1
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: create stickes for agenda items in public
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> Nice one :)
<Iowan> ain't we all agreeable today...
<elfy> my lord - things being done :)
<cariboo907> another yay from me :)
<s-fox> right...next topic...
<s-fox> #topic new presumed spammer usergroup
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: new presumed spammer usergroup
<s-fox> thats about right coffeecat ?
<coffeecat> Yep
<s-fox> we're making a good guess at a spammer
<coffeecat> I suggest "Banned Presumptive Spammers". Near the top of the drop-down for usergroup change then.
<elfy> admins only
<s-fox> thats true
<elfy> dealing with promotions at a later date
<Iowan> snce only staff can see group, you can call it whatever
 * s-fox nods
<coffeecat> yes - hence "presumtpive"
<coffeecat> *presumptive*
<elfy> Iowan: do my suggestion is ok then :P
<s-fox> i think it is worth trying, the pros and cons seem fairly well documented
<s-fox> thanks for that btw coffeecat
<Iowan> elfy:  ???
<s-fox> right, anyone mind going to a vote  ?
<cariboo907> vote
<elfy> yep
<Iowan> +1 - early?
<s-fox> #vote introduce the new presumed spammer usergroup
<meetingology> Please vote on: introduce the new presumed spammer usergroup
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<elfy> Iowan: early?
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: introduce the new presumed spammer usergroup
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> who wants to create the new usergroup  ?
 * Iowan +1'd the vote idea
<s-fox> coffeecat ?
<coffeecat> elfy, and I can do that.
<s-fox> alright :)
<s-fox> #action coffeecat and elfy to add the new group
<meetingology> ACTION: coffeecat and elfy to add the new group
<elfy> s-fox: coffeecat and I can do that and any of the other stuff
<elfy> oh good glad I was there to agree :p
<s-fox> lol
<coffeecat> :P
<s-fox> :)
<s-fox> i have an item that is not on the agenda
<elfy> as do I
<Iowan> npe ;)
<s-fox> i see someone wants a loco creating... i'll sort it out
<elfy> really?
<s-fox> yes, really
<s-fox> go look and  you'll see it
<elfy> yeap - seen it
<s-fox> #action s-fox to sort the loco out
<meetingology> ACTION: s-fox to sort the loco out
<s-fox> what is your item elfy  ?
<elfy> just new forum Ubuntu members
<s-fox> why do we need one?
<s-fox> what is it for? :)
<elfy> to make up the numbers lol
<s-fox> ?
<elfy> serious head - guy has done an enormous amount of work
<elfy> for the forum and the community wiki
<elfy> well worth the badge in my opinion
<coffeecat> o/ forum members is fixed agenda item anyway
<elfy> didn't know that coffeecat
<s-fox> oh i misread what you posted elfy . lol
<s-fox> i thought you were suggesting a dedicated subforum
<s-fox> >.<
<s-fox> lol
<s-fox> alright, can we move on ?
<s-fox> cortman,  are you here ?
<elfy> yea
<Iowan> please
<cortman> Indeed I am.
<elfy> s-fox: we'll talk about the sub forum
<s-fox> elfy,  k
<Iowan> one last chance to back out...
<cortman> lol
<elfy> o/
<s-fox> #topic ubuntu forums ubuntu membership application
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ubuntu forums ubuntu membership application
<s-fox> i see cortman  is applying for membership
<s-fox> can you tell us a little more about yourself please? :)
<cortman> Well,
<cortman> I've been on the forums pretty regularly for a year now
<cortman> Actually a year today if I recall correctly. :)
<cortman> I've tried to help out (it's been a learning process) on the forums and also on the Forum Wiki Team
<cortman> Not much else to me, I suppose, lol.
<s-fox> thanks :)
<cortman> The Forum Wiki Team work has been enjoyable- I've been glad to be part of that process.
<cortman> ^especially.
<s-fox> it has been super busy moving things around
<elfy> cortman: so can you say how well you've done in transcribing threads to wiki's
<cortman> Oh, nothingspecial thinks I should add that I'm also active in IRC as well, mainly in #ubuntuforums.
<s-fox> so any help with that always goes down well
<cortman> Well, I've tried to do my part elfy lol
<elfy> cortman: or rather - how you've managed to deal with the team
<elfy> while others have been off doing other things
<cortman> Well, yes, in Wild Man's absence I've been trying to take up the slack- he's a real workhorse on that.
<elfy> yep
<s-fox> alright, i think i am ready to vote. not sure on the others?  coffeecat  cariboo907  Iowan  elfy  ?
<cortman> I'm hoping to get more involved in maintaining the community wiki as well
<coffeecat> Ok for vote here.
<elfy> I am
<cariboo907> +1 for a vote
<Iowan> please
<s-fox> #vote cortman  for ubuntu forums membership
<meetingology> Please vote on: cortman  for ubuntu forums membership
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<coffeecat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<Celene> +1
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<Iowan> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: cortman  for ubuntu forums membership
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> congrats cortman :)
<cortman> thanks s-fox :)
<s-fox> Celene,  lol. i restricted voting at the start ;)
<cortman> It's an honor- thanks to you all! :)
<Celene> s-fox: :D
<coffeecat> COngrats cortman :)
<elfy> welcome cortman
<Celene> thought elfy said I could vote in the membership.
<cariboo907> Congrats cortman
<cortman> Thank you coffeecat
<cortman> And cariboo907 :)
<cortman> and elfy :)
<elfy> you do us the honour cortman
<s-fox> Celene,  can we pick that up later? :)
<Iowan> cookies/pies?
<cortman> Wow, I wouldn't say that, but thanks much elfy :)
<s-fox> like tomorrow or something?
<elfy> lol
<coffeecat> There'll be a lot of work once we close the T&T forum! ;-)
<s-fox> alright, last item is division of labour or "who wants to do what"
<elfy> coffeecat: cortman is well aware ;)
<coffeecat> :)
<Iowan> What can I mess up this month?
<s-fox> any volunteers for the  ml ?
<cortman> lol yeah./
<elfy> I'll take that s-fox
<s-fox> thanks elfy
<s-fox> #action elfy  = ml
<cariboo907> I can keep on doing what I was if no one else wants to do it
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy  = ml
<s-fox> who wants the report, i did it last time and fixed a few bugs...
<s-fox> i can show someone how to do it if it'd help
<cariboo907> I'll do the report
<elfy> cariboo907: s'ok I will take the caolface this month
<s-fox> or i could do it all again ?
<s-fox> okay cariboo907, thanks!
<s-fox> do you know the setup  ?
<elfy> hi popey
<popey> hello elfy
<s-fox> #action cariboo907  = fc report
<meetingology> ACTION: cariboo907  = fc report
<cariboo907> s-fox, I've done it once already
<cariboo907> :)
<Iowan> I'll try to get cortman  added to membership
<s-fox> okay cariboo907 , if you need any help or whatever ping me :)
<s-fox> cool
<cortman> ah thanks Iowan
<s-fox> #iowan = ubuntu membership launchpad stuff
<cariboo907> will do s-fox
<s-fox> gah
<elfy> Iowan: I can do that and would want to
<s-fox> #action Iowan = ubuntu membership launchpad stuff
<meetingology> ACTION: Iowan = ubuntu membership launchpad stuff
<s-fox>  >:)
<elfy> bah
<s-fox> humbug
<Iowan> elfy: OK!
<elfy> :)
<cariboo907> who's doing the welcome pm?
<coffeecat> o/ for welcome message - I miss the spam pm's.!
<Iowan> i'll concede this month
<s-fox> um,  last month someone (not me ;)) forgot to put a version on ubuntu planet so i'll do that
<elfy> I'd like to do that Iowan if that's ok
<s-fox> #action s-fox  = ubuntu planet forums update report thing
<meetingology> ACTION: s-fox  = ubuntu planet forums update report thing
<s-fox> #action elfy  = welcome pm
<meetingology> ACTION: elfy  = welcome pm
<s-fox> anything else?
<elfy> s-fox: version on forum is 7.04
<elfy> is thjat right lol
<s-fox> hah
<elfy> :)
<elfy> we all have faves lol
<cariboo907> Who wants to be the mean person in the RC?
<s-fox> fyi, i am going to put something about halloween into the planet post, get some of the community involved with avatars
 * s-fox can be mean
<s-fox> >:)
 * cariboo907 too
<s-fox> mwhaha
<coffeecat> Do we need a first responder in the RC. Whoever is around?
<s-fox> oh yeah, that is a good point
<Iowan> I usually try to watch
<s-fox> i know kiwi is pretty good at that too with his tz
<elfy> I can be early UK responder
<cariboo907> I thought elfy  took the lead on that last month
<elfy> yea - but I need to get some to deal with
<elfy> /o
<s-fox> i personally thought it was "first to arrive, or who has the time"
<elfy> one more thing
<cariboo907> s-fox, that works for me
<elfy> s-fox: that sounds good - as long as there is no self modding
<s-fox> +1 to no self modding
<cariboo907> that's a given isn't it?
<s-fox> but we all know that anyway
<s-fox> what is the other thing elfy ?
<cariboo907> hurry up elfy , it's almost lunch time :)
<Iowan> :)
<elfy> sorry
<s-fox> i want to go down the pub... ;)
<elfy> wandered off
<s-fox> o.0
<elfy> forget it - next month
<elfy> ooh - got it
<elfy> so
<elfy> meetings - sat seems good atm - any reason why we don't carry on = 3rd sat of the monthg
<elfy> s/g
<Iowan> reminder=good
<s-fox> oh, works for me
<cariboo907> Works for me too
<Iowan> need a vote?
<elfy> no worrying about other teams - no hassle - we havce the FC agenda FC forum and now the new op[en foum?
<coffeecat> good for me.
<s-fox> Iowan,  we'll post reminders on the ml. might also be good to post in cafe too, get some of the community here
<s-fox> open doors and all that
 * Iowan getting forgetful
<s-fox> #vote hold fc meeting on 3rd sat of every month.  18:00 UTC
<meetingology> Please vote on: hold fc meeting on 3rd sat of every month.  18:00 UTC
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<s-fox> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from s-fox
<coffeecat> +1
<cariboo907> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from coffeecat
<meetingology> +1 received from cariboo907
<Iowan> +1
<elfy> does that sound good - next meet - 17th Nov - 3rd sat of the month - we can fiddle with dec
<meetingology> +1 received from Iowan
<elfy> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from elfy
<s-fox> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: hold fc meeting on 3rd sat of every month.  18:00 UTC
<meetingology> Votes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<s-fox> superb :)
<s-fox> i think we're all done. anyone mind me ending the meeting
<s-fox> ?
<Iowan> Room is booked for another 9 minutes
<Iowan> but early=good
<cortman> I'm out- thanks again, all! :)
<s-fox> i have a booking with the bar Iowan , haha
<s-fox> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Sat Oct 20 18:52:36 2012 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-20-18.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2012/ubuntu-meeting.2012-10-20-18.00.html
<Iowan> dobb't be late - close it
<s-fox> thanks for coming everyone :)
<coffeecat> :)
<cariboo907> Lunch time :)
<coffeecat> I've already had supper! :)
<s-fox> toodles!
<elfy> ha
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-14
<zohan> night all
<pitti> kees, mdz, soren, stgraber, cjwatson: anyone here for TB meeting? (US holiday, etc.)
<cjwatson> I believe I'm no longer on the TB so wasn't planning to attend ...
<pitti> right
<soren> I'm here.
<stgraber> I'm around but not really on the TB at this point :)
<soren> ..but also wasn't really sure about the state of things.
<cjwatson> well, I mean, I'm not even standing
<stgraber> I don't think there's much we can discuss or do until sabdfl gets things to move forward...
<pitti> the only thing that I see is "SRU Request for Heat and Ceilometer", which we can also do by mail
<pitti> I won't mind skipping this meeting and doing the sleep thing instead :)
<soren> pitti: Didn't sabdfl +1 that already anyway?
<pitti> not sure how serious that was, but it seemed rather straightforward anyway
<pitti> I'm still interested in kees' MRE review, if/once it actually happens
<stgraber> there's really no point in having a meeting since we're not technically on the board anyway... the only thing we can do at this point is wait for (and nag) sabdfl so we can have a TB again ASAP
<pitti> ack
<pitti> I'll try to catch him tomorrow on IRC
<pitti> seems mail doesn't quite help
<pitti> so, good night everyone!
<stgraber> good night!
<soren> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-15
<lool> I'm assuming no meeting today
<lool> will cancel invite
<ogra_> yeah
 * ogra_ thinks we are fine without 
<jamespage> o/
<zul> hi ho
<roaksoax> zul: hi santa!
<roaksoax> i mean chuck!
<zul> roaksoax:  you are going to be in a rude shock then
<roaksoax> zul: your "hi ho" reminded me to ho ho ho (santa)
<zul> roaksoax:  oh...i got it from snow white
<jamespage> ok - lets start
<jamespage> in 1 min
<jamespage> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 15 16:02:04 2013 UTC.  The chair is jamespage. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<jamespage> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<jamespage> smoser look at / assign bug 1206872
<ubottu> bug 1206872 in samba (Ubuntu Saucy) "samba needs a config.sub update to support aarch64" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1206872
<jamespage> well its fixed - so done
<smoser> good.
<jamespage> zul look at bug 1199791 1223010
<ubottu> bug 1199791 in nova (Ubuntu Saucy) "nova-compute-xcp misses nova-compute.conf" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1199791
<jamespage> bug 1223010
<ubottu> bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223010
<jamespage> so zul - how about those bugs? gonna make saucy?
<jamespage> :-)
<zul> sure!
 * zul continues studying oauth
<jamespage> zul, do we need to fix bug 1223010 for saucy?
<ubottu> bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223010
<zul> jamespage:  no
<jamespage> ok - so nothing critical for release then - good
<jamespage> zul to look at problem in python-cliff launchpad branch
<jamespage> package import problem I guess
<jamespage> roaksoax to look at bug 1227353
<ubottu> bug 1227353 in maas (Ubuntu Raring) "Please promote maas-dns, maas-dhcp to main" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1227353
<jamespage> roaksoax, hows that looking?
<roaksoax> jamespage: nothing new to report, been dealinig with current release
<jamespage> ah - fixed for saucy I see
<adam_g> jamespage, might want this on our tracking list, was  having trouble targetting it https://bugs.launchpad.net/cloud-archive/+bug/1238915
<ubottu> Ubuntu bug 1238915 in curtin (Ubuntu) "curtin leaves behind /usr/sbin/policy-rc.d file that prevents invoke-rc.d from starting services" [Undecided,New]
<jamespage> smoser, ^^
<smoser> oh. well that would be serious.
<smoser> suck.
<smoser> i'll triage and handle.
<jamespage> smoser, thanks
<jamespage> I nominated for saucy
<jamespage> all done on actions - good
<jamespage> moving on
<jamespage> #topic Saucy Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Saucy Development
<jamespage> release on thurday just in case anyone had not noticed...
<jamespage> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<jamespage> #subtopic Release Bugs
<jamespage> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-s-tracking-bug-tasks.html#server
<jamespage> few things kicking around
<jamespage> bug 1236439
<ubottu> bug 1236439 in neutron "switch to use hostnames like nova breaks upgrades of l3-agent" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1236439
<jamespage> is going to bite upgrades from grizzly to havana - upstream working on that
<jamespage> smb; bug 1208455
<ubottu> bug 1208455 in linux (Ubuntu Saucy) "general protection fault running apt-get inside double nested kvm VM" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1208455
<jamespage> any updates?
<smb> no, sorry
<jamespage> bug 1210054 is done
<ubottu> bug 1210054 in juju-core (Ubuntu Saucy) "juju terminate-machine with local provider doesn't destroy machine" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1210054
<jamespage> bug 1223010
<ubottu> bug 1223010 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Use oauthlib rather than oauth." [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1223010
<jamespage> we poked zul about already
<jamespage> bug 1156932
<ubottu> bug 1156932 in python-novaclient (Ubuntu Saucy) "User can't modify security-group-rule via nova-api if there are duplicated security group name" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1156932
<jamespage> low priority - we'll hang with that one
<jamespage> bug 1239156
<ubottu> bug 1239156 in keystone (Ubuntu Saucy) "Havana RC2 Tracker" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239156
<jamespage> keystone and horuzon are making there way through proposed right now
<jamespage> all other projects have rc2'ed as of now
<jamespage> (apart from swift which I don't expect to)
<jamespage> #subtopic Blueprints
<jamespage> #link http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/group/topic-s-servercloud-overview.html
<jamespage> I had a run through blueprints earlier today and postponed/done'ed a load of wi's
<jamespage> smoser, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-cloud-init
<jamespage> has the 0.7.3 release been completed yet?
<smoser> will sort out now.
<jamespage> other than that looks OK
<jamespage> good
<jamespage> roaksoax, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms-ha-v2
<smoser> 0.7.3 is done. 0.7.4 is to be done
<jamespage> a few TODO's and BLOCKED still to complete - lets catchup next week specifically on the rabbitmq active/active stuff
<jamespage> I think we can move forwards on that now
<jamespage> smoser, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-simplestreams
<jamespage> just need updates?
<jamespage> zul, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-qa
<zul> ill clean that up today
<roaksoax> jamespage: adam_g was looking at that iirc
<smoser> updated abovce.
<jamespage> there is a whole load of stuff that is not going to get done this release - lets deffer and get it running early next week
<roaksoax> (rabbitmq)
<jamespage> roaksoax, ack
<jamespage> adam_g, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-charms
<jamespage> most of the redux work is now landing - I expect we will sprint some time next week on feature catchup
<jamespage> evilnick is not around:
<jamespage> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-juju-docs
<jamespage> zul, https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-s-openstack-hypervisor
<jamespage> a few things to test still but looking OK
<jamespage> anyway
<zul> ditto
<jamespage> I think things look in pretty good shape - final run now :-)
<jamespage> matsubara is picking up the final maas testing for saucy release
<matsubara> yep, I should have an update for you today jamespage
<jamespage> if poss I'd like everyone else to download and iso and make sure no-one changed the installer background to 'wheres chuck' while we where not looking
<matsubara> (and hopefully no more nagging before the release :-)
<jamespage> matsubara, w00t!
<matsubara> I mean, release team nagging you about the tests
<jamespage> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<caribou> I'm here
<jamespage> caribou, all yours
<caribou> well, one bug that I opened : bug 1239758
<ubottu> bug 1239758 in MAAS "isc-dhcp-client needs to be re installed after installing maas" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1239758
<caribou> mostly to raise your attention, I see that arosales has commented already
<caribou> I'll provide the log & keep investigating
<caribou> then one question regarding issue with openstack specific charms :
<caribou> how do we deal with bug reporting on those ?
<jamespage> launchpad.net/charms please
<jamespage> you can report bugs against any of the charms
<caribou> ok, noted. We have an upcoming one on hacluster
<jamespage> or are you refering to the new python-redux branches?
<jamespage> (most of which are merged now anyway)
<roaksoax> caribou: i tested that and I could not reproduce! did you see my comments?
<caribou> jamespage: not specifically
<jamespage> ack
<jamespage> caribou, well anyways, new versions are landing this week that support havana as well
<caribou> roaksoax: yeah a minute ago. I can reproduce it systematically.
<jamespage> caribou, all done?
<caribou> yep, I'm all good
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa)
<jamespage> or is that plars?
<psivaa> No updates from us for this week
<plars> jamespage: one thing
<jamespage> psivaa, feel free to hassle me about smoke test failures and ISO testing this week btw
<plars> jamespage: would someone be up to help testing maas again for the release?
<jamespage> plars, matsubara is in the hotseat for that work
<plars> jamespage: matsubara: awesome, thanks!
<matsubara> np
<jamespage> okay
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb)
<smb> Nothing to report (beyond many still unpacked boxes).
<jamespage> smb, which reminds me - I need to log a bug about nested KVM virt that I see with 3.8/3.11/3.2
<jamespage> I love a good kernel stack
<jamespage> :-)
<jamespage> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions regarding Ubuntu ARM Server (rbasak)
<rbasak> No updates from me. Any questions?
<jamespage> rbasak, anything from the world of low-powered server devices we need to know?
<jamespage> guess not
<jamespage> :-)
<jamespage> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<jamespage> so... Openstack summit in 2.5 weeks time - a few faces will be attending
<jamespage> a few Canonical folks out next week sprinting but I think we'll still try to have a meeting
<jamespage> anything else anyone wants to raise?
<arosales> reminder to get your charm championship entires in.
<jamespage> ...
<jamespage> ..
<jamespage> .
<jamespage> oh - good one
<arosales> #link https://juju.ubuntu.com/charm-championship
<jamespage> $10k per category up for grabs!
<jamespage> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<jamespage> I have something
<jamespage> welcome to gaughen!
<gaughen> thanks jamespage!
<arosales> welcome gaughen !
<jamespage> gaughen has just joined the Canonical Server Team as Engineering Manager!
<jamespage> anything else anyone wants to raise?
 * jamespage adds gaughen to the meeting chair rota list :-)
<jamespage> #topic Announce next meeting date and time
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date and time
<gaughen> uh oh
<jamespage> +7 days same time same place
<jamespage> 22nd I make that
<jamespage> 1600 UTC
<jamespage> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 15 16:28:16 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-15-16.02.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-15-16.02.html
<arosales> thanks for charing jamespage
<jamespage> np
<jsalisbury> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 15 17:00:19 2013 UTC.  The chair is jsalisbury. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<jsalisbury> ##
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<jsalisbury> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Saucy
<jsalisbury> # Meeting Etiquette
<jsalisbury> #
<jsalisbury> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<jsalisbury> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<jsalisbury> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<ppisati> o/
<bjf> o/
<sconklin> o/
<henrix> o/
<sforshee> o/
<cking> o/
<rtg> o/
<ogasawara> o/
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] ARM Status (ppisati)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ARM Status (ppisati)
<ppisati> S/master-next: fixes for the SATA bus present on the imx6 board were
<ppisati> committed, while support for a new imx6-variant (wandboard) is under
<ppisati> investigation.
<ppisati> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<jsalisbury> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> [LINK] http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Milestone Targeted Work Items (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://launchpad.net/~canonical-kernel-distro-team/+upcomingwork
<ogasawara> [LINK] http://status.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-s/canonical-kernel-distro-team.html
<ogasawara> || apw       || foundations-1305-arm64-bringup     || 2 work items ||
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Saucy Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<ogasawara> We are ~2 days away from 13.10's Final Release.  The kernel remains
<ogasawara> frozen and we do not anticipate any further uploads before release.  All
<ogasawara> patches coming in at this time are being queued for SRU.
<ogasawara> -----
<ogasawara> Important upcoming dates:
<ogasawara> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SaucySalamander/ReleaseSchedule
<ogasawara> Thurs Oct 17 - 13.10 Release (~2 days away)
<ogasawara> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<jsalisbury> == 2013-10-15 ==
<jsalisbury> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<jsalisbury> http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/cve/pkg/ALL-linux.html
<jsalisbury> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Raring/Quantal/Precise/Lucid (bjf/henrix/sconklin)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today (Oct. 15):
<bjf>   *   Lucid - Verification and Regression Testing
<bjf>   * Precise - Verification and Regression Testing
<bjf>   * Quantal - Verification and Regression Testing
<bjf>   * Raring  - Verification and Regression Testing
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://people.canonical.com/~kernel/reports/sru-report.html
<bjf> ..
<jsalisbury> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<jsalisbury> Thanks everyone
<jsalisbury> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 15 17:03:40 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-15-17.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-15-17.00.html
<sconklin> thanks jsalisbury!
<cking> blink
<costales> Hi everyone! :)
<pleia2> o/
<jose> hey guys! we're starting in 20mins
<costales> Welcome to your first meeting as council jose, skellat! :D
<jose> :)
<jose> 10mins to go
 * skellat waits for the meeting to start
<jose> #startmeeting LoCo Council October Meeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 15 20:00:14 2013 UTC.  The chair is jose. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council October Meeting | Current topic:
<costales> Let's go! :)
<jose> #voters costales skellat SergioMeneses PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales skellat
<jose> #voters costales skellat SergioMeneses PabloRubianes jose
<meetingology> Current voters: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales jose skellat
<jose> #chair costales skellat SergioMeneses PabloRubianes jose
<meetingology> Warning: Nick not in channel: PabloRubianes
<meetingology> Current chairs: PabloRubianes SergioMeneses costales jose skellat
<jose> so, let's check the agenda
<phillw> lubuntu meeting will be held on #lubuntu-offtopic, I'll kill the person who double booked the room later!
<jose> #topic California LoCo Team Re-Verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council October Meeting | Current topic: California LoCo Team Re-Verification
<pleia2> o/
<jose> pleia2: you're the team contact, right?
<pleia2> I am
<costales> Hi pleia2 :) Good luck!
<pleia2> unfortunately due to timezones it's the middle of a weekday california time so everyone else is work/schooling right now
<pleia2> (I'm on my lunch break :))
<jedijf> yay pleia2
 * jedijf has your back
<costales> bon appetit!
<pleia2> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CaliforniaTeam/VerificationApplication2013
<jose> checking that now
<costales> pleia2: Amazing amount of Ubuntu Hours! It's lovely to see how active you are!
<jose> the same I wanted to say, it's great to see that amount of activity
<pleia2> we really like ubuntu hours :)
<jose> may I ask, how many people show up around those?
<pleia2> a lot of us are pretty busy, so it works out well
<pleia2> I run the SF one, we tend to have 4-10 each time
<costales> How does your team get people involved in running events?
<SergioMeneses> hi guys
<pleia2> we start folks off by getting them to do ubuntu hours, then recruit them to help out with bigger events like the southern california linux expo where we have ubucon and a booth each year
 * SergioMeneses hugs pleia2 
<costales> pleia2: great :)
 * pleia2 hugs SergioMeneses 
<SergioMeneses> that is great!
<skellat> pleia2: As a minor point, would it be possible to fix California's naming on LP to be in line with the faceted team naming standard for US teams?  See: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoTeamHowto#For_the_United_States
<pleia2> skellat: we were told we could keep it since it's legacy
<costales> I see a really friendly team in the pictures :)
<SergioMeneses> pleia2, I want to know if you have problems in your team or something that you will share with us :)
<pleia2> we put it on a lot of our printed materials and things so switching now would be really painful for the team
<skellat> pleia2: I can live with that then.
<jose> we can make an exception
<skellat> We'll need to update our guidelines to take that into account
<skellat> It's a truly minor thing though
<costales> yes skellat ;)
<pleia2> SergioMeneses: not really, always looking for more folks to be active but we do pretty well
<jose> any more questions?
<skellat> o/
<jose> go for it
<skellat> pleia2: What can we do as LoCo Council to serve Ubuntu California?  How can we enable you, equip you, or otherwise make life easier for you at this time?  How may we serve you best?
<pleia2> skellat: I think we're doing ok :) I know where to find you
<jose> should we move on to voting, then?
<skellat> I'm agreeable to that.
<costales> It's OK for me :)
<SergioMeneses> pleia2, we are starting with a new process of verification, do you have comments about it? something to share about your experience working on it?
<pleia2> SergioMeneses: it feels identical to reapproval ;)
<costales> hahaha
<skellat> With luck that will change over time.
<pleia2> having the loco team portal helps a ton though, I can just link to those past events instead of spending tons of time on a wiki page, which was alawys very tedios
<jose> it's great to know that some teams find the tools useful
<jose> anything else?
<skellat> pleia2: One of my goals is to stress during these check-ins is that we are here to serve the local communities and to find out what needs are unmet that we can help fill.  I'm not really worried about red tape but making sure everything is equipped for success.
<pleia2> I just got a package delivered, my saucy shirt has arrived in time for our release party on thursday! :D
<pleia2> skellat: much appreciated, thank you
<skellat> jose: I call for a vote
<jose> that motion is in order
<jose> #vote California LoCo Team Re-Verification
<meetingology> Please vote on: California LoCo Team Re-Verification
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<skellat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from skellat
<costales> +1 Keep your awesome work team!
<meetingology> +1 Keep your awesome work team! received from costales
<jose> +1 Keep up that activity level, awesome!
<meetingology> +1 Keep up that activity level, awesome! received from jose
<SergioMeneses> +1 great work
<meetingology> +1 great work received from SergioMeneses
<jose> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: California LoCo Team Re-Verification
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<pleia2> thanks everyone!
<jedijf> congrats ca and pleia2
<jose> congratulations! :)
<SergioMeneses> congrats guys!
<jose> next up is...
<costales> Congrats!!! :D
<czajkowski> well done :)
<SergioMeneses> pleia2, you're right the process is pretty similar but is the best way to get information from our teams and get in touch :)
<jose> #topic Pennsylvania LoCo Team Re-Verification
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council October Meeting | Current topic: Pennsylvania LoCo Team Re-Verification
<jedijf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PennsylvaniaTeam/ReVerificationApplication2013
<jedijf> hello council
<costales> Hi jedijf !
<skellat> Good afternoon jedijf!
<jose> hey jedijf!
<costales> Good luck team! :)
<skellat> What end of the Commonwealth are you located in jedijf?
<jedijf> Philly side
<SergioMeneses> hi ubuntu pennsylvania!
<jedijf> southeastern - the only active area - pretty much, since inception
<skellat> Okay, I spent some time living in Indiana County working at IUP and attended Clarion University of PA
<SergioMeneses> jedijf, \o
<pleia2> I was at fosscon with the PA team this summer, they did an awesome job with installs and fixups for folks who came by :) http://www.flickr.com/photos/pleia2/9478617047/in/set-72157635045154436
<jedijf> bhavani was there too!
<jedijf> he was smitten with pastry
<SergioMeneses> jedijf, I saw it
 * SergioMeneses wants to go
<jedijf> come to 2014 - we're working on a venue right now
<skellat> jedijf: How is activity doing beyond the southeastern portion of the state?  Any signs of life or prospects to build upon?
<skellat> I may be in Ohio but I'm only a short drive away from Erie if you want somebody to visit and speak perhaps
<jedijf> skellat: not really, but as i was doing the reverification, i decided that over the next 2 years that roadtrips to LUGs to promote will be needed
<skellat> That sounds good
<jedijf> skellat: erie lug, last i heard is inactive
<skellat> That sounds not so good
<jose> so, I'm checking the LoCo Portal right now, and there aren't many events in there, why aren't you using it?
<jedijf> jose: noted - also noted when mentioned to CA
<jedijf> will add to administriva list
<skellat> If it doesn't do what you need, what do you need it to do for you?
<jose> or what do you use instead?
<SergioMeneses> jedijf, you seem to be a good team but I dont see referents of the events to the locoteam portal http://loco.ubuntu.com/
<jedijf> skellat: not that; merely an oversight
<jedijf> SergioMeneses: that will be resolved moving forward
<SergioMeneses> jedijf, sure! it is not a big deal, an advice
<jedijf> the beauty and bain of multiple communication channels
<skellat> Okay, wearing my hat as leader for Ubuntu Ohio I have already filed a few wishlist bugs against LoCo Portal myself as I don't like the way it does a few things
<jedijf> after i use it, maybe i will do the same!
<skellat> I encourage it
<jose> it's a pretty useful tool which devs are keen in improving
<jedijf> i did use the Ohio script though (member one)
<costales> jedijf: Which type of events is working better in your team? Ubuntu Hours, Jams, Installfests...?
<costales> :)
<jose> or maybe you do better at talks, roundtables, that stuff?
<SergioMeneses> before vote, I want to know if you have any problem in your team or doubts, maybe we can help you
<SergioMeneses> jedijf, âââ
<jedijf> costales: fosscon is now our big event - given that we've been around so long, in the philly area, we are definitely a brand
<costales> jedijf: Great :)
<costales> jedijf: Is a lot of work, right?
<jedijf> our work with NTR, a computer repurposer, and the local hackerspaces, and the community in general - that's are biggest promotion
<costales> I'm sure :D
<jedijf> costales: like pleia2 said - more bodies would be awesome
<jose> jedijf: have you recently had any problems or inquiries on the team in which we can give a hand with?
<skellat> jedijf: How may we serve your community so that you may achieve greater success?
<jedijf> one thing, as i mentioned at the bottom of app is if you could pass on any information that you feel we need to get to the community
<skellat> I talked to Jono Bacon about that a little at Ohio Linux Fest
<jedijf> i can tell by our forums count there are many lurkers - hopefully they come out - but even if not, giving the info is vital
<jose> it's something we're clearly working on, but we need to coordinate it a bit to get it done in a good way :)
<jedijf> they will come when the time suits them - just want to keep them engaged until then
<skellat> Information gets tricky as we have to balance the business interests of Canonical and the wishes of the community
<skellat> That is a matter on our agenda to discuss and take up with Mr. Bacon, though
<jose> one last thing I wanted to mention
<jedijf> this next 2 years my goal is to start Ubu hours and reach out to distant LUGs to create activity in other areas of the state
<jedijf> jose: i'm sorry, go ahead
<jose> as we've already said on the mailing list and to you, it would be good if we could get the name of the LP team changed to ~ubuntu-us-pa for it to follow the naming standards :)
<jedijf> jose: on it!
<jedijf> no printed material
<costales> jedijf: Great news! :D I think it'd be very helpful
<jedijf> so we're good
<SergioMeneses> jose, agree
<jedijf> yeah, it's even hard to find myself on the list :)
<jose> and if you could change the team's email to the mailing list address that'd be good too
<jose> just so people can have contact info handy
<jedijf> piece of cake
<jose> thanks for the cooperation
<costales> yes jedijf, thanks :)
<SergioMeneses> jedijf, \o/
<jose> so, everyone's ready for a vote?
<skellat> I call for a vote
<SergioMeneses> skellat, agree
<costales> I'm ready
<jose> #vote Pennsylvania LoCo Team Re-Verification
<meetingology> Please vote on: Pennsylvania LoCo Team Re-Verification
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)
<skellat> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from skellat
<jose> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from jose
<costales> +1 Keep your amazing work team! :D
<meetingology> +1 Keep your amazing work team! :D received from costales
<SergioMeneses> +1 good work and good advices
<meetingology> +1 good work and good advices received from SergioMeneses
<jose> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: Pennsylvania LoCo Team Re-Verification
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<jedijf> thank you council!
<jose> congratulations!
<costales> Congrats team!!!
<costales> Well done!
<IdleOne> yay jedijf and PA!
<jthan> IdleOne: come back to PA
<IdleOne> jthan: not gonna happen but I am there in spirit
<pleia2> congrats PA :)
<SergioMeneses> congrats jedijf
<jedijf> IdleOne: long time bud - thanks
<jthan> IdleOne: <3
<jose> keep up the good work, we're sure you'll get more people involved with advocacy :)
<waltman> Has anyone mentioned yet how awesome the PA ubuntu team is?
<jose> #topic General Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | LoCo Council October Meeting | Current topic: General Announcements
<SergioMeneses> jedijf, pleia2 remember if you have a feedback for us, please let us know :)
<costales> waltman: +1 :)
<SergioMeneses> waltman, :)
<jose> first of all, we wanted to mention that we're here to help every team
<jose> if any of you needs any help, advice, or even have feedback for us just let us know
<jose> we're keen to improve ourselves, as well as our relationship with the teams
<jose> then, we also wanted you to know that we have just opened a Twitter account, where we will be posting updates
<jose> #LINK https://twitter.com/LoCoCouncil
<jose> anything else to discuss, costales, SergioMeneses, skellat?
<pleia2> fwiw, I'd love to see a blog post about teams that were (re)verified from the council, even if it's as simple as "congrats, here are links to their approval apps"
<pleia2> err, verification :)
<jose> noted, will definitely do that in a while!
<pleia2> I know there are teams doing great work, but I often don't know about it unless I read the logs, which I don't do
<jose> (after I poke IS :P )
<SergioMeneses> jose, I'm ok
<skellat> jose: I have nothing further to dispose of at this meeting.
<SergioMeneses> pleia2, we are working on it :D
<costales> pleia2: +1! ;) We were talking about that :D
<pleia2> great :)
<jose> then, that's all for now, folks!
<jedijf> pleia2: thinking uwn?
<costales> Thanks jose. Great chat management!
<jose> :)
<pleia2> jedijf: you know me
<jedijf> :)
<jose> thanks everyone for coming, and congratulations to us-ca and us-pa!
<jose> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 15 20:39:33 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-15-20.00.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-15-20.00.html
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-16
<jared> FYI - the 1200 Membership Board Meeting would be on now except there are no applications currently to be processed (just for the logs)
<czajkowski> jared: thanks for the update.
#ubuntu-meeting 2013-10-17
<pleia2> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 17 17:03:00 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
<czajkowski> Aloha
<pleia2> #chair dholbach czajkowski
<meetingology> Current chairs: czajkowski dholbach pleia2
<dholbach> hey hey
<pleia2> just going to have a quick Community Council meeting :)
<pleia2> happy release day everyone!
<czajkowski> \o/  nice work everyone!
<pleia2> some may have noticed that both the memberships of the CC and the Tech Board have expired, oops :) we're working with sabdfl to get them restaffed
<pleia2> CC just needs sabdfl to review the candidate list and send out the poll, TB needs a call for nominations
<dholbach> yep, I was in touch with clan about the CC candidate list, so I'm sure she's going to pass it on to him
<dholbach> any other open questions?
<czajkowski> is there anyone not expiring from the TB that could put the call out
<czajkowski> so we can get that bit moving
<pleia2> I sent a mail to their list on tuesday suggesting they do that, but it's stuck in the moderation queue
<pleia2> tech board busy on release week? say it ain't so :)
<pleia2> as far as the tech board goes, we might suggest to sabdfl that the terms get extended until it can be restaffed
<pleia2> the CC is close enough that I think we're ok for a couple of weeks
<czajkowski> nods
<dholbach> awesome
<pleia2> alright, I think that's it
<dholbach> with that it looks like everybody can go back to release celebrations? :-)
<pleia2> \o/
<pleia2> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 17 17:08:58 2013 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-17-17.03.moin.txt
<meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-10-17-17.03.html
<czajkowski> thanks
<czajkowski> :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-10-14
<jdstrand> zbenjamin: it is the 'Ã¡' in 'ZoltÃ¡n Balogh <zoltan@bakter.hu>'. Appears trusty's python-3.4 doesn't like it
<jdstrand> meh, why did I mention that here?
<ogra_> so we can have a meeting about it ?
<Laney> someone start a vote
<zul> okie dokie
<zul> so server team meeting who is here? (in theory)
<lutostag> o/
<gnuoy> o/
<zul> we could always skip it
<zul> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 14 16:00:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is zul. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<kickinz1> o/
<zul> hi so lets get this thing started
<smoser> o/
<zul> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<matsubara> o/
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<zul> any action points from the previous meeting?
<lutostag> nope
<zul> sweet
<zul> #topic U Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: U Development
<zul> smoser: do you want to take this one?
<zul> u is awfully close to being released isnt? next week i think
<smoser> ^ i'll +1 above.
<smoser> yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UtopicUnicorn/ReleaseSchedule
<smoser> final freeze is the 16th.
<smoser> that means. um. you don thave a lot of time to get stuff in.
<smoser> it also means that we are in a great time for you to actually assume things work.
<smoser> and to try them.
<smoser> and yell loudly and quickly if they do not work.
<zul> indeed
<zul> anything else?
<zul> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<zul> caribou:  around?
<caribou> zul: I'm here
<zul> anything to report?
<caribou> zul: nothing aside being sorry for not being there last week, was on training
<zul> ok
<zul> any questions for caribou
<smoser> caribou, we'll let it slide this time.
<zul> #topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: : Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (psivaa
<zul> hi psivaa around?
<psivaa> zul: the server iso tests are broken at the moment, this is due to some installation issues. i'll follow this up
<caribou> smoser: hope so, it was Python training :)
<psivaa> zul: nothing more to update :)
<zul> psivaa:  broken as in how?
<psivaa> zul: failing to find the kernel module
<zul> oh
<zul> ok
<zul> any questions for psivaa?
<psivaa> zul: i still need to figure out the exact issue, during the installation
<psivaa> but this is roughly it
<zul> ok cool
<zul> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee, arges)
<zul> hi smb
<zul> or he might not be aound due to plumbers
<zul> moving on
<zul> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<zul> ODS in paris is coming up pretty quickly as well
<zul> any other events?
<zul> there is another item on the agenda
<zul> #topic Discuss EOLing qemu machine types (and legacy roms) (hallyn, rharper)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Discuss EOLing qemu machine types (and legacy roms) (hallyn, rharper)
<zul> but they might be at plumbers as well so Ill leave it on the agenda when they et back
<zul> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion
 * rbasak wonders if that could be done on the mailing list
<zul> anyone have any comments?
<zul> rbasak:  it probably could but neither rharper or hallyn is here to tell them to do it
<zul> if nothing else
<zul> thanks for coming
<zul> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 14 16:13:20 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-14-16.00.moin.txt
<kickinz1> thanks
 * jamespage blinked and missed it
<gnuoy> thanks zul
<matsubara> thanks zul
<zul> jamespage: blink faster next time :)
<caribou> thanks zul
 * beisner thinks zul set a new record
#ubuntu-meeting 2014-10-16
 * slangasek waves
<barry> o/
<bhuey> hey
<mvo> hi
<sil2100> \o
<cjwatson> dia dhuit
<jodh> o/
<Caribou> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 16 15:06:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh bdmurray slangasek cjwatson caribou infinity mvo bhuey sil2100 robru)
<slangasek> jodh infinity mvo stgraber caribou bdmurray doko cjwatson slangasek sil2100 bhuey barry robru
<slangasek> jodh: you're up! :)
<jodh> * system-image:
<jodh>   - Created an ubuntu-core-upgrader package.
<jodh>   - Writing documentation.
<jodh>   - Debugging mount issues.
<jodh>   - Currently improving upgrader.
<jodh> á§ 
<slangasek> PAHTAMASAT - ephemeris data for amateur satellites
<slangasek> no infinity today (Plumbing)
<slangasek> mvo:
<mvo> apt:
<mvo> - work on privsep code and backwards compatbility
<mvo> - work on experimental branch
<mvo> click:
<mvo> - Address review comments for lp:~mvo/click/repository
<mvo> - Debug vala dbus releated crash
<mvo> - Improve table output for updates, add click update --machine-readable
<mvo> - Look at bulk query interface to find updates
<mvo> - Test sso+acquire branch with latest public.apps.ubuntu.com - success
<mvo> - Work on lp:~mvo/click/sso+acquire - click update, install works now (with sso
<mvo> )
<mvo> - fix click user-hook systemd job
<mvo> misc:
<mvo> - travel preparing
<mvo> system-image:
<mvo> - lots of work on this (gtimelog has 25 items for it this week :)
<mvo> - image very usable at this point
<mvo> utopic:
<mvo> - ddtp-update
<mvo> - command-not-found update
<mvo> - app-install-data update
<mvo> - upgrade test
<mvo> - Debug/fix spectacular postinst upgrade failure during trusty->utopic (#1381570)
<mvo> (done)
<Caribou> stgraber: around ?
<bdmurray> Caribou: I don't think so
<Caribou> ok, I'll go ahead, he can always catch up
<Caribou> * Completed Python training in Paris
<Caribou> * sosreport 3.2 released on Debian
<Caribou> * First set of tests on networked kdump tools at run-level S
<Caribou> * Working on makedumpfile/kdump-tools test environment
<Caribou> * Need to ramp up on systemd
<Caribou> (done)
<bdmurray> tested updated of daisy to revision 542
<bdmurray> r545 daisy/submit.py: don't try to insert into systemoopshashes if system_token is missing, keep a metric of missing_system_tokens and whoopsie versions
<bdmurray> submitted RT 75776 regarding update of daisy to r545                                                                                                  updated daisy code to resolve a KeyError trying to find HTTP_X_WHOOPSIE_VERION r546
<barry> Caribou: python 3 right? :)
<bdmurray> r547 - daisy/submit.py: increment a counter for duplicate reports and a counter for duplicate reports including the whoopsie version
<bdmurray> submitted RT to have daisy updated to revision 547
<bdmurray> reviewed daisy log files for duplicate core submissions (numbers are much much lower)
<doko> why train Python in Paris? ;)
<bdmurray> irc discussion regarding retracer backlog and declaring bankruptcy
<bdmurray> submitted RT 75838 regarding declaring retracer queue bankruptcy
<bdmurray> research into packages using /etc/os-release to resolve LP: #1362496
<bdmurray> merged xnox's whoopsie changes fixing LP: #1339916 regarding system identifier
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1362496 in base-files (Ubuntu-rtm 14.09) "LSB release and /etc/os-release still say "Utopic", needs to be RTM" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1362496
<bdmurray> upload whoopsie to utopic
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1339916 in whoopsie (Ubuntu RTM) "SystemIdentifier can change between reboots" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1339916
<Caribou> barry: unfortunately not but I stayed attentive to the differences
<bdmurray> updated / uploaded lxc-android-config to make /var/lib/whoopsie writable
<bdmurray> submitted apport merge proposal fixing LP: #1345569
<bdmurray> uploaded apport to utopic fixing LP: #1345569
<bdmurray> investigation into whoopsie test failure (callback-triggered-once)
<bdmurray> reported glib2.0 bug LP: #1381804 regarding whoopsie test failure
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1345569 in apport (Ubuntu) "recoverable_problem crashed with ValueError in add_proc_info(): invalid process" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1345569
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1381804 in whoopsie (Ubuntu) "whoopsie test failure since glib2.0 2.41.2-1 uploaded" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1381804
<Caribou> doko: because I live near Paris & needed python training :)
<bdmurray> â done
<doko> heh
<doko> - Python 3.4.2 prepared for the trusty SRU
<doko> - a lot of binutils fixes
<doko> - slof ftbfs fix
<doko> - keyutils ftbfs fix
<doko> - crash ftbfs fix
<doko> - flask ftbfs fix
<doko> - refit ftbfs fix
<doko> - wagon2 ftbfs fix
<doko> - libaio ftbfs fix
<doko> - libunwind ftbfs fix
<doko> - openjdk-6 security update (utopic, trusty, precise, lucid)
<doko> - openjdk-8 update (still needs the aarch64 hotspot security updates)
<doko> - gcc-4.9.2 (something before the release candidate)
<doko> - binutils 2.25 branch
<doko> - cross toolchain updates
<doko> - the usual pestering about ftbfs, MIR, ...
<doko> - some syncs, removals, component overrides
<doko> (done)
<cjwatson> Upgraded utopic to Perl 5.20.1.
<cjwatson> Dragged in on Saturday for a weekend broken-images panic following Friday night's Mir landing.
<cjwatson> Did a good part of the work to move a number of click packages from the ubuntu-touch rootfs into the custom tarball, which was an RTM blocker.
<cjwatson> Spent a considerable amount of time analysing and thinking about the terrible bug 1265192.  This resulted in four changes which I think cover all the bases:
<ubottu> bug 1265192 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Trusty) "Install/reinstall wipes out all/other partitions" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1265192
<cjwatson>  - Exclude free space from count of deleted partitions.
<cjwatson>  - Describe use_device consistently, avoiding language that is ambiguous in the event that OS detection gets it wrong.
<cjwatson>  - Offer separate replace option even if we believe that the disk only contains Ubuntu.
<cjwatson>  - Always show a confirmation dialog before committing partitioning changes.
<cjwatson> Fixed (again) GRUB installation on PowerKVM, which lacks nvram.
<cjwatson> Failed to finish native-dbus branch, but belatedly pushed a first draft so that Michael could have a look.
<cjwatson> Various +1 maintenance work (mostly removals) in an attempt to prepare for release.
<cjwatson> Off tomorrow to try to get my head together a bit before the sprint.
<cjwatson> ..
<mvo> native-dbus branch \o/
<sil2100> slangasek: your turn o/
<slangasek> bdmurray: regarding /var/lib/whoopsie, it was noticed yesterday that this fix isn't on ubuntu-rtm/14.09 yet, and it rather ought to be - we can't sync lxc-android-config because there's an earlier upload on utopic from stgraber that bumps an lxc dependency.  We should talk about getting this landed
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek>  * short week, due to eating Canadian turkey and Canadian stuffing on Monday
<bdmurray> slangasek: okay and also getting the new whoopsie there
<slangasek>  * worked through a system-image server bug where it could not import deltas for images that dropped files with non-ascii filenames
<slangasek>  * still working on embargoed security update which is awaiting vendor signatures
<slangasek>  * with Colin and cwayne, finished splitting click core apps out of the rootfs... landed at the very last minute for our phone image release
<slangasek>  * helped shepherding of landings and image prep yesterday to get our RTM milestone out (still being validated)
<slangasek>  * internal list discussions around daisy data and how to use it to drive RTm
<slangasek> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray: yep
<slangasek> sil2100: your turn :)
<sil2100> slangasek, cjwatson: really good work with the click-app split o/
<slangasek> the good work was all cjwatson's
<sil2100> Works like a charm so far
<sil2100> - Landing team work, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - CI Train maintenance and features:
<sil2100>   * Fix problems with jobs succeeding on failure
<sil2100>   * Fix problem with source package extraction, often seen in sync silos
<sil2100>   * Handle errors during package builds more gracefully
<sil2100>   * Preparing additions to the dual-landing functionality (not enabled yet)
<sil2100> - Coordination of many key landings for image promotion for ubuntu-rtm
<sil2100> - Preparing silo for the qtmir cherry-pick of unity8 lifecycle fixes
<sil2100> - Preparing and testing silo with the indicator-sound fix
<sil2100> - Writing a lot of announcements
<sil2100> - Pushing on fixes, keeping management up-to-date
<sil2100> - Preparations for travel
<sil2100> - Attending many meetings regarding our promotion plans for ubuntu-rtm
<sil2100> (done)
<bhuey> This week
<bhuey> -built icedtea prelease packages for the next security release. Work with Matthias to work around tarball problems
<bhuey> -wrote scripts to support easier analysis of jtreg test log. This is to replace the diff -u method I've been using and reporting
<bhuey> -commit the jtreg work directory to my ppa
<bhuey> -post jtregs result for utopic/trusty/precise
<bhuey> (done)
<barry> system-image: LP: #1373467 (on hold for...) LP: #1374459 (in progress)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1373467 in Ubuntu system image "Support config.d directory" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1373467
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1374459 in Ubuntu system image "Support alternative downloaders" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1374459
<barry> debuntu: LP: #1295833; LP: #1380814; upstream pycurl issue #210 (debug callback UnicodeDecodeError on Python 3) - uploaded fix to Ubuntu.  nose2_0.4.7-2ubuntu1 (remove unused tox B-D) and nose2_0.5.0-1 to Debian.  LP: #1381564 (pyparsing 2.0.3+dfsg1-1 to Debian, awaiting landing for syncpackage to Utopic).
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1295833 in Bazaar Fast Import "Import error in exporter.py - fastimport.helpers" [Critical,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1295833
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1380814 in tox (Ubuntu) "[FFE] tox 1.8.0-1" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1380814
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1381564 in pyparsing (Ubuntu) "pyparsing ParseResults.pop() fails with NameError: global name 'index' is not defined" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1381564
<barry> other: lots of trainguarding; citrain conference call
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> robru: around?
<slangasek> any questions over people's status?
<slangasek> mvo: chsh> eew
<mvo> slangasek: exactly, exploded really deep in the dependency chain, no fun
<mvo> but fixed now, glad I found this before the release
 * slangasek nods
<slangasek> how old is "older", btw?  Should this have been caught by precise->trusty->utopic upgrades?
<cjwatson> Fixed except that there's a systemd autopkgtest failure in the way, I think
<cjwatson> Oh, possibly that's done.  Not sure, the bug isn't closed at any rate
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else we should cover today?
<slangasek> (before barry gives us a brief presentation)
<mvo> slangasek: I couldn't figure out when this changed, I don't know for sure, I can dig into it, I'm also puzzled that the precise->trusty->utopic has not found it
<slangasek> mvo: ok.  fwiw I just checked my laptop, which has a uuidd user with /bin/false and a /var/log/installer that says it was installed with lucid
<slangasek> [TOPIC] git-dpm
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: git-dpm
 * slangasek hands the mic to barry
<barry> thanks
<sil2100> \o/
<barry> okay, so quick backstory:
<mvo> slangasek: strange, just logged into a precise chroot and there my libuuid user has /bin/sh
<mvo> slangasek:  I will ask jibel about it
<barry> debian-python team uses svn to manage all team packages.  the svn repos are debian/ only, i.e. not source-full
<barry> svn is pretty creaky these days so lots of folks want to use something more modern and distributed-y
<barry> git being the obvious choice
<barry> lots of open questions about a migration of team packages to git, and we did some experimentation with the options before debconf, and then had a meeting at debconf
<barry> when managing packages with git, first you have... git!
<barry> a lot of your package management can just be done with git commands
<barry> and git-buildpackage serves the same purpose as svn-buildpackage, which the debian-python team is quite familiar with
<barry> i.e. use that to build source packages and binary packages, etc.
<barry> tag for release
<barry> the tricky part comes in when you want to do patch management
<barry> you want a good interface with quilt since that's still the way you generally do patches against upstream in debuntu
<barry> there are two common choices here:
<barry> git pq
<barry> git-dpm
<barry> my first experience with git-dpm was with the six package, which cjwatson maintains in debian.  it was quite nice
<barry> so i did some small conversions to both tools and found git-dpm to be so much simpler to use and teach
<barry> man git-dpm for lots of good details
<barry> (there's also dgit which is roughly equivalent to udd+bzr but we'll ignore that for now)
<barry> so, git-dpm
<slangasek> there's a third one that people keep going on about but isn't in Debian yet, right?  git-cherrysoda or something?
<barry> you can use it to manage your branches, and we are recommending *source full* repos
<barry> git-cherrypick but i don't even think it's in the archive yet
<barry> or wasn't last time i looked
 * slangasek nods
<barry> git-dpm has some very simple and well documented workflows for importing new upstream releases
<barry> (although i have some suggestions for improvements)
<barry> and let's say you need to add a quilt patch
<barry> git-dpm checkout-patches
<cjwatson> git-debcherry I think it is
<cjwatson> I still have the PDF queued up to look at ...
<barry> that puts you in a 'patched' branch, with only upstream source in your working tree (no debian/)
<slangasek> (git-stonefruit)
<barry> cjwatson: yeah
<barry> in the patched branch, you just edit the files as needed to fix whatever bug you need, then git commit as usual
<barry> when you're happy with your changes:
<barry> git-dpm update-patches
<barry> and now you're back in the master branch
<barry> oh yeah, 'master' is usually what's targeted for unstable, but of course you have other options
<barry> anyway
<barry> update-patches converts your 'patched' branch commits to quilt patches
<barry> it's all rather seamless and nice
<barry> though it is important to remember a few issues
<barry> 1) your commit message is used in the patch name
<barry> e.g. 0001-fix-the-dumb-thing-that-upstream-broke.patch
<barry> 2) each commit gets turned into a quilt patch
<barry> the latter means that in your 'patched' branch, it's helpful to sometimes do 'git rebase -i master' to squash commits, etc.
<barry> there are ways to control the q/patch name, and dep-8 headers are preserved, etc.
<slangasek> so is each patch always a single commit?
<barry> so it's really very nice
<cjwatson> 1) is fixed by using Patch-Name: in your commit message ... ah, yes, that
<barry> slangasek: each commit in 'patched' turns into a quilt patch file
<barry> cjwatson: yep
<barry> but it handles refreshing your patches and such
<slangasek> so that implies that each patch winds up rebased each time?
<cjwatson> to evolve a patch over time, you tend to use rebasey workflows on the 'patched' branch, and then git-dpm merges patched into master
<barry> yes, i think so
<cjwatson> so you rebase, but the history is preserved by way of the tip merge
<barry> yep.  it's actually the first example of git rebase that i like :)
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> that's what I was worried about - if someone screws up the rebase, is there a record :)
<slangasek> s/if someone screws up/if I screw up/
<barry> oh yes, the 'patched' branch is temporary and local.  unlike with git pq, it does not get preserved.  git update-patches deletes it
<barry> slangasek: not sure, but i found it difficult to both screw up the rebase *and* get back on the master branch to build your package
<barry> so let's see...
<barry> oh yes
<slangasek> I mean screw up at a higher level (semantic failures rather than mechanical ones)
<barry> slangasek: not sure actually
<Caribou> barry: one thing I noticed is *not* to "rebase -i" on the master branch; I've seen quilt patch disapear that way
<barry> Caribou: sure, though sometimes you do want to rebase away a quilt patch.  i've used it to squash commits so i have the right number of quilt patches
<cjwatson> slangasek: it's certainly preserved.  (git offers many ways to blow off your own foot, but a number of ways to stitch it back on as well.)
<barry> :)
<cjwatson> slangasek: what I find myself doing is amending early and often
 * slangasek nods
<Caribou> barry: indeed, rebasing while in the "git-dpm checkout-patched" mode is fine
<cjwatson> slangasek: so I do the rebase in a sketchy way, test to see if it works, if it doesn't then try again and git-dpm update-patches --amend, and only push anywhere once I'm happy
<barry> yep, amend is great for working out the final details of a patch
<barry> so, quick example with what sealed the deal for me and git-dpm
<barry> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/python-modules/packages/pycurl.git/
<slangasek> "test to see if it works" - that involves jumping back out to the master branch so you can do a package build?
<cjwatson> rebasing the master branch is a good way to get very confused, although if you've pushed somewhere you can at least get it back from that, and there's always the reflog too
<cjwatson> slangasek: right, update-patches but don't push
 * slangasek nods
<barry> pycurl has ubuntu deltas which we need to preserve because of cross-pocket dependency constraints debian does not have
<barry> so, i built the debian version, tagged it and uploaded
<barry> then i created an 'ubuntu' branch
<barry> and made the ubuntu deltas there
<barry> i even tested some quilt patches, so `git-dpm checkout-patched` created ubuntu-patched (i.e. against ubuntu branch not master)
<barry> that was nice
<barry> anyway
<barry> once ubuntu version was ready, i made commits to the ubuntu branch, tagged it there with ubuntu/7.19.5-2ubuntu1 and created teh source package for upload to utopic
<barry> then i had a new upstream version
<barry> i did the debian twiddling as normal
<barry> and uploaded
<barry> switched to the ubuntu branch, merged in the master branch changes, updated the delta, and commited to the ubuntu branch
<barry> i was shocked how easy it was
<barry> neither bzr nor svn workflows can touch it
<barry> one last thing
<barry> this is a tool i wrote to import debian package releases into git:
<barry> http://anonscm.debian.org/cgit/users/barry/import-dscs.git/
<barry> had some nice ipmrovements by tumbleweed
<barry> and while debian-python is still in limited experimental phase, i cringe when i have to go back to svn ;)
<barry> i think that's all i have.  any other questions?
<cjwatson> I haven't myself tried doing this with anything that has an Ubuntu delta, so I'm pleased to find out that that generally seems to work.  It will be interesting to see how robust that is across non-trivial changes
<barry> oh, i did recommend d-python team switch to git-dpm, but we don't have an eta yet for mass conversion
<barry> yep
<cjwatson> I'm not sure how the merge workflow would work (we wouldn't want it to accidentally serialise the patched branch onto master, for instance)
<slangasek> how about a tool to import udd branches into git-dpm? ;)
<barry> slangasek: frankly, i would just recommend making our lives simple and import-dscs but that does lose history
<cjwatson> One thing I'd add, if you're converting non-trivial repository history into git (patch helpers or not), I can thoroughly recommend http://www.catb.org/~esr/reposurgeon/
<barry> for debian-python, i really don't care about the svn history ;)
<barry> *preserving
<cjwatson> It's basically a domain-specific language for repository conversions
<slangasek> barry: right; I'm rather attached to my detailed histories
<slangasek> actually, maybe that's more the case for other people's packages than my own, since I write changelog entries ;-)
<cjwatson> I converted a ton of my history using it and have been very happy with the results I managed to get, such as the Debian openssh packaging that has been through cvs (with ill-advised vendor branch) -> svn -> bzr -> git
<barry> cjwatson: yes, have you actually run reposurgeon?  esr says it needs a "beefy machine and lots of time" (that's for the emacs repo, which has crazy multi-vcs gobbledegook)
 * slangasek bookmarks reposurgeon
<cjwatson> yes I have.  It took a while for grub2 I think but not so bad that I wasn't able to iterate a number of times on it
<barry> cjwatson: cool.  i have upstreams that i want to convert to git eventually and reposurgeon is tops on my list for that
<cjwatson> so for openssh I had a config file that looked like http://paste.ubuntu.com/8574593/
<cjwatson> specifically this allowed me to stitch the packaging history into the same commit graph as the upstream history, which is awesome
<barry> i've followed the discussion on emacs-devel.  seems esr has done an impressive amount of work on reposurgeon
<slangasek> cool
 * barry hands the mic back to slangasek 
<slangasek> ok, 4 minutes left
<slangasek> any questions for barry?
<cjwatson> I think that the only sane way to do this involves stitching in upstream history (assuming you have it), but that's really hard to do without a DSL
<slangasek> ("can we have this in Launchpad tomorrow")
<cjwatson> barry: what're the opinions looking like in the rest of the d-python team?
<barry> cjwatson: i've only had limited feedback. ScottK was +1 ;)
<barry> no -1
<barry> there are some edge questions, such as wither upstream's repo should be remoted in, whether source full repos shoudl be used, that kind of thing
<barry> no one advocating for sticking with svn or using git pq
<barry> some people don't want to use pristine-tar
<barry> which i don't agree with
<barry> i.e. if upstream uses tarball releases, we should use pristine-tar workflows
<barry> and all pypi packages are still tarball based
<cjwatson> git-dpm at least makes that easy to do
<barry> yep!
<slangasek> those aren't edge questions, those are lunatic fringe questions ;-P
<barry> though i want a --uscan option :)
<barry> slangasek: :D
<cjwatson> (git-dpm import-new-upstream -p UPSTREAM-COMMIT --ptc)
<slangasek> "should source ful repos be used" - yes, always
<barry> slangasek: yep
<cjwatson> remoting in upstream's repo can be a bit trickier if it's non-git
<cjwatson> iirc you had some trouble with the hg setup in six
<barry> yep
<barry> though i don't recall the details
<cjwatson> I think it required starting by cloning from upstream with git-hg and then remoting in the Debian branch, which isn't ideal
<barry> i'm personally not a big fan of remoting in upstream, but i ack that it can make cherrypicking fixes a little easier
<cjwatson> it also lets you use git blame/log/etc.
<barry> i'd rather just grab the patch from an upstream clone or github
<barry> yeah
<barry> the *main* thing is - don't send irc and email notifications to d-python team for upstream commits!
<cjwatson> haha
<slangasek> yeah, has that been fixed yet? :)
<barry> i think so
<cjwatson> anyway, thanks for the talk, I'm really glad to see others using this
<barry> it's a life changer frankly
<Caribou> cjwatson: barry: seeing you using it convinced me to use it for my two projects
<barry> and i don't even hate git anymore :)
<slangasek> thanks, barry :)
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 16 16:03:45 2014 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2014/ubuntu-meeting.2014-10-16-15.06.moin.txt
<slangasek> and thanks, all!
<mvo> thanks
<jodh> thanks!
<barry> cheers
<doko> thanks
<Caribou> thanks !
<pleia2> btw, there was nothing on the CC agenda today
<pleia2> and folks are pretty busy with "woo release is in a week" activities :)
<pleia2> for the next meeting we hope to start up the check-ins again for the -V cycle
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-10-12
<bdmurray> cyphermox: it's meeting time right?
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-10-13
<caribou> Any Server Engineering meeting today ?
<bjf> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 13 16:58:53 2015 UTC.  The chair is bjf. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<bjf> ##
<bjf> ## This is the Ubuntu Kernel Team weekly status meeting.
<bjf> ##
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Wily
<bjf> # Meeting Etiquette
<bjf> #
<bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
<bjf> #       'o/' indicates you have something to add (please wait until you are recognized)
<bjf> Roll Call for Ubuntu Kernel Weekly Status Meeting
<smb> o/
<arges> o/
<ppisati> \o/
<sforshee> o/
<bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Release Metrics and Incoming Bugs (jsalisbury)
<bjf> Release metrics and incoming bug data can be reviewed at the following link:
<bjf> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kt-meeting.txt
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Wily Development Kernel (ogasawara)
<bjf> Important upcoming dates:
<bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WilyWerewolf/ReleaseSchedule
<bjf> Thurs Oct 15 - Final Freeze (~2 weeks away)
<bjf> Thurs Oct 22 - 15.10 Release (~1 weeks away)
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: CVE's
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: CVE's
<bjf> The current CVE status can be reviewed at the following link:
<bjf> [LINK] http://kernel.ubuntu.com/reports/kernel-cves.html
<bjf> ..
<cking> o/
<chiluk> o/
<bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid (bjf)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Status: Stable, Security, and Bugfix Kernel Updates - Precise/Trusty/lts-utopic/Vivid (bjf)
<bjf> Status for the main kernels, until today:
<bjf>   *     Precise - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *      Trusty - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *  lts-Utopic - Kernel Prep
<bjf>   *      Vivid  - Kernel Prep
<bjf>  
<bjf> Current opened tracking bugs details:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/kernel-sru-workflow.html
<bjf> For SRUs, SRU report is a good source of information:
<bjf>   * http://kernel.ubuntu.com/sru/sru-report.html
<bjf>  
<bjf>  
<bjf> Schedule:
<bjf>  
<bjf> cycle: 27-Sep through 17-Oct
<bjf> ====================================================================
<bjf>          25-Sep   Last day for kernel commits for this cycle
<bjf> 27-Sep - 03-Oct   Kernel prep week.
<bjf> 04-Oct - 10-Oct   Bug verification & Regression testing.
<bjf> 11-Oct - 17-Oct   Regression testing & Release to -updates.
<bjf> Note: We have gotten off to a late start on this cycle due to some patches
<bjf>       that came in at the last minute. We intend to stick to the schedule
<bjf>       though that may change as we get farther along.
<bjf> ..
<bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Open Discussion or Questions? Raise your hand to be recognized (o/)
<ddstreet> o/
<ddstreet> hi!
<ddstreet> n
<ddstreet> no
<bjf> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 13 17:01:25 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-13-16.58.moin.txt
<ddstreet> just roll call :-)
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-10-15
 * slangasek waves
<robru> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<tdaitx> \o
<sil2100> o/
<pitti> o/
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 15 15:00:38 2015 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx)
<slangasek> barry tdaitx infinity sil2100 doko bdmurray pitti caribou slangasek robru cyphermox
<barry> \o/
<barry> debuntu: pex 1.1.0-1, 1.1.0-1ubuntu1, 1.1.0-2 (merged debian/ubuntu & fixing dep-8 tests); dpmt git migration completed!; looked at LP: #1504288; sponsored LP: #1503698; flufl.enum 4.1-1; observed, filed, and investigated debian bug #801710 (ongoing); sponsored LP: #1506007
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1504288 in configglue "Test suite failure with Python 3.4 & 3.5" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1504288
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1503698 in python-pysaml2 (Ubuntu) "FTBFS due to broken unit tests" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503698
<ubottu> Debian bug 801710 in dh-python "dh-python: dh_python3 sometimes leaves empty python3.Y/dist-packages/*.egg-info directory" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/801710
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1506007 in python-linecache2 (Ubuntu) "Sync 1.0.0-2 from debian testing, fixes FTBFS due to unit tests failing to run" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1506007
<barry> python: *lots* of discussions about 3.4.3 backward compatibility breaks.  reviewed doko's fixes for trusty.
<barry> other: investigated multiple dist-upgrade regressions including nut-client.  filed bugs, etc. as appropriate.  booked travel for sprint.  porter box access fail (vpn).
<barry> system-image: 3.0.2 in vivid-overlay targetting OTA-8.  needs testing.
<barry> --done--
<tdaitx> Short week: holiday on Monday
<tdaitx> Current/Past
<tdaitx> - reported and provided fix for libecap FTBFS on rebuild (LP: #1504200)
<tdaitx> - provided SRU for squid3 (LP: #1073478)
<tdaitx> - contacted IcedTea and Andrew to coordinate a few patches and IcedTea release
<tdaitx> - asked for feedback, comments, and/or endorsements for my core dev application
<tdaitx> - manually building a new package with recent commits from icedtea 2.6 branch to get the steps right
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1504200 in libecap (Ubuntu) "libecap2 FTBFS due to gcc5 transition" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1504200
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1073478 in squid3 (Ubuntu) "[SRU] Update squid3 upstart script to kill it with SIGINT and wait longer" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1073478
<tdaitx> - testing host TCK on local lxc instead of vm
<tdaitx> Next steps
<tdaitx> - build a git mirror from IcedTea mercurial repo
<tdaitx> - get a recipe for building openjdk packages from IcedTea repo working
<tdaitx> - finish up TCK for trusty on amd64/i386
<tdaitx> - look for LP bugs that have been fixed on the latest IcedTea 2.6 commits
<tdaitx> - verify OpenJDK 6 TLS patch (LP: #1482924)
<tdaitx> Waiting/On hold
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1482924 in openjdk-7 (Ubuntu) "Regressions due to USN-2696-1" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1482924
<tdaitx> - waiting OCA to submit webrevs for 7093640 backport (set TLS 1.1 as default for JDK 6 and TLS 1.2 as default for JDK 7); not blocking anything for now, just waiting
<tdaitx> - waiting for enough endorsements to submit my core dev application
<tdaitx> (done)
<slangasek> I think infinity isn't here this morning
<slangasek> sil2100:
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - RTM Status meetings
<sil2100> - OTA-7 preparations, cherry-picking fixes and re-builds
<sil2100> - OTA-6+ - preparing emergency snapshot for the emergency hotfix
<sil2100> - +1 maintenance, additional work on the FTBFS list
<sil2100>   * Looked at wheel being blocked in -proposed
<sil2100>   * Fixed python-glance-store failures
<sil2100>   * Requesting sync of python-linecache2
<sil2100>   * Investigating the python-configglue failures
<sil2100>   * Looking into the mir failure - fix released with new upstream release
<sil2100> - appmenu-qt5:
<sil2100>   * Triggering Qt rebuild with second fix for no-shortcuts issue
<sil2100> - Seed maintenance
<sil2100> - Landing team script maintenance, small corrections and instance migration
<sil2100> - Further work on documentation and release process improvements
<sil2100> - Preparing flight details for sprint
<sil2100> - Lover work capacity due to some slight health issues
<sil2100> (done)
<doko> - python3.4 SRU, and discussions, urllib3 SRU
<doko> - ibm-java reviews and updates
<doko> - "final" python3.5 update
<doko> - ftbfs, ftbfs, and ftbfs fixes
<doko> - propose maintenance plan for ruby for the LTS
<doko> - propose demoting gcc-4.8 for the LTS
<doko> - last openjdk-7 and openjdk-8 updates for wily
<doko> - buildable gcc-snapshot for all archs
<doko> (done)
<bdmurray> worked mojo spec for Error Tracker
<bdmurray> irc discussion with seb128 re a failure to retrace
<bdmurray> reported daisy bug LP: #1505818 (retracing of things for which we now have ddebs)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1505818 in Daisy "Need a method to ask for a core file for a failed to retrace crash" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505818
<bdmurray> cleanup of fsys-tarfile foreign language crash reports
<bdmurray> update bug bot to handle fsys-tarfile crash reports
<bdmurray> ubuntu-release-upgrader bug triage
<bdmurray> fixed pending SRU report due to yaml layout changes LP: #1496020
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1496020 in ubuntu-archive-tools "sru-report does not show autopkgtest regressions any more" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496020
<bdmurray> uploaded aptdaemon to wily (improved error message for LP: #1439769)                                                                                                   reported update-manager (LP: #1505337) re: #auto in package name
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1439769 in update-manager (Ubuntu Vivid) "various linux packages being marked as manually installed, still prevents 'apt-get autoremove' from doing the right thing for kernels" [Critical,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1439769
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1505337 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "update-manager crashed with aptdaemon.errors.AptDaemonError in commit(): org.debian.apt: kinit#auto isn't a valid package name" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505337
<bdmurray> investigation into ubuntu-support-status bug LP: #1503979
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1503979 in update-manager (Ubuntu) "ubuntu-support-status throws exeption No date tag found (regression)" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1503979
<bdmurray> uploaded ubuntu-release-upgrader fixing LP: #1505359
<bdmurray> uploaded a fix for software-properties bug LP: #1426933
<bdmurray> investigation into mirrors not being removed from u-r-u (LP: #1463680)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1505359 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "release upgrade process should log what meta packages are installed" [Medium,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505359
<bdmurray> investigation into apport bug LP: #1505852
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1426933 in software-properties (Ubuntu Vivid) "add-apt-repository crashed with IndexError in mangle_ppa_shortcut(): string index out of range" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1426933
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1463680 in ubuntu-release-upgrader (Ubuntu) "mirrors only added to mirrors.cfg, never removed" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1463680
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1505852 in apport (Ubuntu) "apport should filter username/homedir from JournalErrors.txt" [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505852
<bdmurray> â done
<pitti> sil2100: I like your "Lover work capacity" :)
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - discuss and start implementing changes to minimize installed packages from -proposed during tests (#1503150)
<pitti>  - Fine-tune tests triggered by linux/-meta (#1504498)
<sil2100> Uh oh! Not like that!
<pitti>  - Fix freeradius autopkgtest
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - Investigate regression with systemd 226 (https://github.com/lxc/lxc/issues/663)
<pitti> systemd:
<pitti>  - Fix logind crash on scheduled shutdown, write test case for it (#1495178)
<pitti>  - spent three days on investigating a nasty boot problem (https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/1505), still ongoing
<pitti>  - some keymap bug fixing
<pitti> misc:TB meeting, lots of bug gardening, the usual daily -proposed maintenance
<pitti> EOT
<sil2100> It was a typo, I swear!
<sil2100> ;)
<caribou> hmm, right on time it seems
<caribou> my turn, right ?
<tdaitx> caribou, yes
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou> - Bug #1496317 Wily failed kdump crash
<caribou>   smb reviewed it. Minor fixes. Will need to be SRUed
<ubottu> bug 1496317 in kexec-tools (Ubuntu) "kexec fails with OOM killer with the current crashkernel=128 value" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1496317
<caribou> - sosreport autopkgtests
<caribou> - iSCSI / DM-MPIO issue Needs to investigate diffs with RHEL7 where it works
<caribou> - Network Manager if-down.d script not executed
<caribou>   Cyphermox suggested to use dispatch.d
<caribou>   LP: #1496317 kdump OOM killer failure
<caribou>   - More work done
<caribou>     * Moved symlink management to kdump-config
<caribou>   - Need to talk to Debian kernel team about applying upstream
<caribou> still waiting for upload of LP: #1273462
<caribou> (done)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1273462 in lsb (Ubuntu Trusty) "Users can mistakenly run init.d scripts and cause problems if an equivalent upstart job already exists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273462
<slangasek>  * short week, holiday on Monday
<slangasek>  * s390x planning
<slangasek>  * work with phone team on disabling apport on the stable channel https://code.launchpad.net/~vorlon/lxc-android-config/apport-job-cleanup/+merge/274497
<slangasek>  * NEW review for dpdk, openvswitch-dpdk
<slangasek>  * helping shepherd MIRs for juju and lxd
<slangasek>  * discussions about partman+raid vs. PReP partitions on POWER
<slangasek>  * python 3.4 SRU discussions
<slangasek>  * discussions about SecureBoot and kernel signing enforcement
<slangasek> (done)
<robru> lp:ubuntu-ui-toolkit/gles (and qtmir and qtubuntu)
<robru> - rework how orig.tar is found in such a way that eases silo management for upstreams and fixes a train bug
<robru> lp:cupstream2distro
<robru> - catch & warn about JSONDecodeError (stop exploding on empty response from lp archive.copyPackage())
<robru> - unconditional 'chmod +x' on debian/rules in order to avoid errors for ones that aren't executable
<robru> - more strict handling of -gles packages to avoid package versions getting out of sync
<robru> - minor unification of redundant dual-silo logic.
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> - minify JSON in production to save bandwidth (also exclude certain large fields from the JSON when not necessary)
<robru> - convert various db id fields from int to bigint for future-proofing reasons
<robru> - hide certain inappropriate buttons during request editing
<robru> - catch unhandled exception when trying to submit empty comment
<robru> lp:phablet-tools
<robru> - use apt pinning to fix silo installation: don't upgrade packages from overlay ppa, don't upgrade packages from distro, unless required by a new dependency in the silo.
<robru> (done)
<cyphermox>  - short week, Monday was a national holiday.
<cyphermox>  - more testing with fwupdate and fwupd.
<cyphermox>  - NM fixes for bugs LP: #1498474 and LP: #1446689
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1498474 in network-manager (Ubuntu) "Incorrect MTU on VPN connect" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1498474
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1446689 in network-manager (Debian) "network-manager configured to use /usr/sbin/pppoe but does not recommend pppoe" [Unknown,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1446689
<cyphermox>  - sponsoring/upstreaming fix for grub2 bug LP: #1459872
<cyphermox>  - coached dannf on usage of git-dpm for grub2 packaging
<cyphermox>  - looked into bug LP: #1361951; unable to reproduce the freezes.
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1459872 in grub2 (Ubuntu Vivid) "using progress mod w/ net files crashes" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1459872
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1361951 in partman-ext3 (Ubuntu) "Ubiquity freezes during partition creation" [Medium,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1361951
<cyphermox>  - spent far too much time convincing MAAS to boot ppc64el with a custom image.
<cyphermox>  - debugging grub-installer/partman-prep for install of PReP partitions on RAID
<cyphermox>  - fixed ipmitool trusty SRU build failure on powerpc.
<cyphermox> (done)
<pitti> caribou: please don't rely on if-down.d/ for anything serious; in a hotplug or wifi world you can never guarantee that it actaully works2
<pitti> barry: pex still has failing tests FYI
<caribou> pitti: yes, that's what cyphermox suggested
<barry> pitti: hasn't been uploaded yet :)
<slangasek> robru: "unconditional chmod +x" - eh, surely that should be regarded as a buggy branch and we should make the landers fix it.
<pitti> caribou: or the dispatcher (I mean the concept, not the implementation)
<cyphermox> yeah, if NM manages the interface it always runs dispatcher.d scripts
<barry> pitti: after meeting, -> unstable then syncpackage
<pitti> barry: cool, thanks
<slangasek> alright
<slangasek> any questions?
<slangasek> business as usual, one week before the release? :)
<sil2100> ;)
<pitti> FTR, I'll prepare final langpacks tomorrow morning
<sil2100> Still a lot of FTBFS on the radar!
<slangasek> yes
<slangasek> if you're not otherwise working on release-critical bugs, FTBFS are the place to be right now
<barry> do any of us own usb-creator and/or want to take a look at LP: #1505370 ?  getting reports from the field that usb sticks are not bootable on non-uefi machines
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1505370 in usb-creator (Ubuntu) "Creating a bootable CD with Ubuntu 15.10 results in "Boot error" on all non-UEFI machines" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1505370
<slangasek> http://people.ubuntuwire.org/~wgrant/rebuild-ftbfs-test/test-rebuild-20151001-wily.html
<cyphermox> barry: I'll look
<barry> cyphermox: thanks!
<slangasek> barry: that sounds like it's probably an endlessly repeating variant of the syslinux mismatch bug
<cyphermox> exactly.
<slangasek> usb-creator needs rearchitecting badly, I'm afraid
<slangasek> (as cyphermox knows)
<barry> dang
 * cyphermox considers mdeslaur's dd magic.
<slangasek> barry: basically, usb-creator depends on the syslinux package on the host system release, and when it copies the image to the USB stick it munges boot block bits from that together with whatever is on the image, and this is in no way guaranteed to be compatible
<barry> thanks guys
<slangasek> the right answer is "do not munge", but not munging means no persistence
<slangasek> so anyway
<barry> sounds like a fun one
<cyphermox> I think I'd make it not munge unless people want persistence, and not allow persistence if we're writing a 64-bit image from 32-bit, making that obvious in the UI
<cyphermox> or you know, that, worded somehow that makes sense ^
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> anything else?
<slangasek> reminder to get your sprint plans into the google doc
<slangasek> and reminder that UOS is the same week as the sprint, so make sure you get your sessions registered for anything that we need to talk about
<slangasek> and next Thursday is the release, so no meeting that day
<slangasek> anyone besides me have anything else? ;)
<barry> can't wait to hear what sabdafl has in mind for x code name
<caribou> still need a sponsor for LP: #1273462
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1273462 in lsb (Ubuntu Trusty) "Users can mistakenly run init.d scripts and cause problems if an equivalent upstart job already exists" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1273462
<caribou> I'm being chased daily on this one
<sil2100> Xciting X-men?
<pitti> xtraordinary Xerus?
 * barry always has a good list but never seems to be consulted
<slangasek> caribou: remind me what we discussed previously.  was I going to sponsor it and get someone else to SRU review it, or were we going to get someone else to sponsor it and I would SRU review it?
<caribou> slangasek: afaik, you were to sponsor it and infinity would do the SRU leg work
<pitti> slangasek: last time I think Adam wanted to upload and you to approve
<pitti> slangasek: I can also sponsor
<slangasek> pitti: ok, tag you're it :)
<slangasek> anything else
<slangasek> going...
<slangasek> going...
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 15 15:25:34 2015 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2015/ubuntu-meeting.2015-10-15-15.00.moin.txt
<slangasek> thanks all!
<caribou> thanks!
<sil2100> o/
<pitti> thanks
<barry> thanks!
<pitti> slangasek, caribou: uploaded lsb
<caribou> pitti: thanks a ton !
#ubuntu-meeting 2015-10-17
<dupingping> hi everyone
<dupingping> I want to become a ubuntu member.
<sarnold> dupingping: hello, have you seen this page yet? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/NewMember
<dupingping> how can i applicant? at there?
<dupingping> i saw the page, but could not edit the page.
<sarnold> which page did you try to edit?
<dupingping> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A12:00
<dupingping> how to apply to become a Net Member?
<dupingping> *Net* New
<sarnold> dupingping: what error message did you get when you tried to save that page?
<dupingping> It shows me raw text for the page.
<sarnold> yeah, the wiki syntax is a bit confusing the first few times
<sarnold> scroll down the text editor until you find the time and date you want to attend, then look for the "## ENTER YOUR TEXT RIGHT AFTER THIS LINE (no blank lines)" piece
<dupingping> yeah, that's great.
<dupingping> i saved it.
<dupingping> Can you see it?
<sarnold> dupingping: nice; now you need to make your own wiki page to describe yourself, see "personal wiki page" here https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/NewMember
<dupingping> yes, let me try now.
<dupingping> hi, sarnold
<dupingping> At the wiki page,
<dupingping> I did not use GTalk.
<dupingping> I have no gtalk account yet.
<dupingping> i have been added it.
<dupingping> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/Boards#A12:00
<dupingping> my name is Du Pingping
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-10-18
<cpaelzer> o/
<powersj> o/
<jgrimm> o/
<powersj> wait a min. or two?
<rharper> o/
<cpaelzer> depends no how much showed up, you might highlight some you consider missing
<jgrimm> yeah, i just poked internal channel
<nacc> o/
<brauner> o/
<nacc> sorry was messing with the importer
<powersj> ok let's see if I do this right :)
<jgrimm> :)
<smoser> o/
<powersj> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 18 16:03:10 2016 UTC.  The chair is powersj. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<powersj> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<powersj> (jamespage) checkin with old iscsitarget users on relevancy with new kernels
<powersj> anything here?
<jgrimm> powersj, if we don't get an update in next irc meeting, i'll work via email
<powersj> ok, moving on
<powersj> #topic Yakkety Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Yakkety Development
<powersj> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/YakketyYak/ReleaseSchedule
<nacc> that should be Zesty now, right?
<powersj> done with this topic now?
<powersj> :)
<jgrimm> :)
<cpaelzer> nacc: it is not there yet
<powersj> any lingering or post-release yakkety issues?
<nacc> cpaelzer: which is not?
<jgrimm> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/servercloud-z-server-core
<jgrimm> just a reminder that the blueprint is open for business that we want to track ^^
<rharper> jgrimm: we may want to add the /boot install outcome
<powersj> great! anything else for yakkety or zesty dev?
<jgrimm> rharper, agreed. i'll fix now
<nacc> jgrimm: would you be ok with adding putting the importer live to the blueprint? or should we keep it unofficial? :)
<rharper> I think rbasak was going to take that to ubuntu-devel as well
<jgrimm> rharper, yep
<jgrimm> nacc, feel free to use blueprint for it (or create new separate and link)
<nacc> jgrimm: thanks
<jgrimm> its not terribly formal.. however we feel it helps us be effective.
<nacc> absolutely
<jgrimm> rharper, added /boot to blueprit
<jgrimm> blueprint even
<powersj> ok moving on
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-y-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<powersj> wwops
<powersj> #subtopic Release Bugs
<powersj> do we have rbasak?
<nacc> i recollect seeing in my scrollback he might be out
<jgrimm> ah, new stuff in the report at least
<powersj> ah yes he is out today
<jgrimm> powersj, i just did a quick look at the y report.  all have owners or in progress that I don't see anything worth bringing up here.
<powersj> jgrimm: thank you! moving on
<powersj> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs (caribou)
<powersj> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<jgrimm> powersj, caribou unable to make it today, sent status ahead of time that he had nothing to bring up today
<powersj> making this easy on me ;)
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (powersj)
<powersj> #link https://jenkins.ubuntu.com/server/
<powersj> Yakkety ISO testing last week, few issues with ppc64el and ppc
<powersj> Focus is on cloud-init integration testing. Goal is still to have something working by Friday in our jenkins (linked above)
<powersj> any questions for me?
<smoser> powersj, woot!
<jgrimm> looks good.  will be great to have cloud-init integration tests finally !
<powersj> :)
<powersj> ok moving on then
<cpaelzer> I still feel too red on the migration tests powersj
<cpaelzer> is the ball currently with you or me ?
<powersj> cpaelzer: I agree - let me remind myself of status later today and send you mail
<cpaelzer> powersj: I'll let you remind yourself :-P
<powersj> :)
<powersj> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
 * cpaelzer stops stropping people reminding things
<cpaelzer> stopping even
<smb> Nothing to report from here
<powersj> ok
<powersj> #topic Upcoming Call For Papers
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Upcoming Call For Papers
<powersj> anything here?
<jgrimm> checking
<jgrimm> CFP for OSCON is Oct 25, FOSDEM is Oct 31.
<jgrimm> powersj, fwiw.. i usually rely upon the LWN CFP deadline page.
<powersj> jgrimm: good to know, I will go read that after this
<powersj> anything else from folks?
<rharper> jgrimm: link ?
<rharper> just  #  link it here
<jgrimm> #link http://lwn.net/Calendar/Monthly/cfp/
<powersj> excellent, thank you!
<jgrimm> np
<powersj> #topic Ubuntu Server Team Events
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Team Events
<smoser> is zesty open for uploads ?
<jgrimm> good question
<cpaelzer> smoser: not a few hours ago
<cpaelzer> smoser: I saw xnox having extra work since not all things were ready
<cpaelzer> smoser: so I wouldn't rush things today unless we hear a "go"
<nacc> i'm seeing stuff go into z-p on #ubuntu-release
<jgrimm> ooo > Unapproved: mistral (zesty-proposed/universe) [3.0.0-1 => 3.0.0-1ubuntu1] (no packageset
<nacc> but that might be an artifact of the copy forward?
<nacc> not sure
<nacc> the /topic says its still closed
<cpaelzer> well then it was resolved in the last few hours
<cpaelzer> but copy?
<jgrimm> so some bits getting close
<cpaelzer> yeah ack
<powersj> anyting for team events?
<powersj> anything rather
<powersj> ok, moving on
<powersj> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<cpaelzer> I have two topics for this one
<cpaelzer> One would be a discussion on proactive stable updates for qemu
<cpaelzer> I found that 2.5 got 2.5.1 and 2.5.1.1 upstream
<cpaelzer> FYI - http://paste.ubuntu.com/23344536/
<cpaelzer> the CVEs are already in by the security Team
<cpaelzer> 2.5 is Xenial = LTS
<nacc> cpaelzer: would this be a MRE kind of thing?
<nacc> Micro Release Exception
<cpaelzer> that is kind of what I'm wondering about
<rharper> I don't think so
<rharper> those are all bugs (just not filed against xenial)
<cpaelzer> I'd think since it is only bug fixes not
<cpaelzer> rharper: exactly
<nacc> rharper: ah ok
<cpaelzer> I would suggest I open a bug and work against that over the next time, but wanted to ask for any objections
<cpaelzer> like "we usually don't because ..."
<rharper> I think we should chat with the openstack team
<nacc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates#New_upstream_microreleases fwiw, MRE is for (aiui) bugfix microreleases upstream
<rharper> they possibly have a similar cadence of changes/fixes
<cpaelzer> FYI - debian hasn't got to them since all releases are on 2.4.* or 2.6.* now
<nacc> that's what i followed for php7.0, e.g.
<rharper> nacc: ah, nice
<cpaelzer> nacc: interesting
<nacc> it just puts it on the SRU team radar to approve a 'new' upstream version (not normally allowed) in the SRU
<cpaelzer> ok, without objection I think I'll handle this as such microrelease
<rharper> cpaelzer: won't that increase delta?
<rharper> until sync?
<cpaelzer> rharper: it will increase the delta to something that isn't maintained - that is what I tried to say above
<nacc> cpaelzer: fyi, LP: #1569609 is how i filed it
<cpaelzer> Debian is either on <2.5 or >2.5 on all releases
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1569609 in php7.0 (Ubuntu Xenial) "[SRU] microrelease exception for src:php7.0" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1569609
<nacc> and y is already on 2.6.x right?
<nacc> rharper: so this would only be for x, aiui
<cpaelzer> yes Y=2.6
<cpaelzer> exactly
<rharper> well, why not T or P ?
<cpaelzer> it is only X for all of the Debian/Ubuntu world
<rharper> I guess I don't get why we're doing it now and only for X ?
<cpaelzer> rharper: I didn't check the same might apply for T (and update to 2.0)
<rharper> it's a nice to have
<nacc> because somebody cares enough to do it? :)
<rharper> not a care
<rharper> a _cost_
<rharper> which we've not explored w.r.t impact on other choices
<nacc> i thought cpaelzer was saying the cost was we might get bugs for all of the bugfixes
<nacc> so we'd be backporting those individually to x
<rharper> but if we don't get those?
<nacc> i mean, they are known bugs in the upstream version x is based on
<rharper> so, in the past, it's been a judgement call during the process
<cpaelzer> nacc: right, I thought those are known issues and fixing bugs in non emergency mode as a batch would be worth it
<nacc> rharper: yeah, i'm not sure what makes the most sense
<rharper> let's continue the discussion w.r.t trade-offs of time vs. benefit;  I think jgrimm and openstack folks should opine on the matter
<jgrimm> cpaelzer, have you done any looking at the bugs fixed to see if any of that list seem critical?
<rharper> we could discuss this next week and return here with our findings
<cpaelzer> jgrimm: just slightly, would need a bit more time to do so
<jgrimm> i do think i can be swayed, as qemu is critical component to our stack
<nacc> sounds like an action item :)
<cpaelzer> rharper: that is good, I'll analyze the severity and come back with it
<rharper> right, and getting some input from other teams
<rharper> will it increase churn? help them out?
<cpaelzer> #action cpaelzer investigating severity of issues covered by qemu 2.5. stable releases and ask other Teams on their input
<meetingology> ACTION: cpaelzer investigating severity of issues covered by qemu 2.5. stable releases and ask other Teams on their input
<nacc> yeah, the testing impact is a good point, it's an integration point
<powersj> cpaelzer: was that both of your topics?
<cpaelzer> that was one
<rharper> one more =)
<jgrimm> fwiw, the newton c-a, does _not_ include a y qemu.
<rharper> jgrimm: it won't until Z
<rharper> IIUC
 * cpaelzer is moving to second topic
<rharper> they pull from archive until it goes out of support
<jgrimm> rharper, ack
<cpaelzer> that actually was brought up by rharper - which was TL;DR "We should follow-up on this:" in regard to VNIC offloads
<cpaelzer> I think here is the right place to discuss, unless you prefer doing that via ML
<cpaelzer> #link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjlyutCppcU&list=PLrninrcyMo3IkTvpvM2LK6gn4NdbFhI0G&index=10
<rharper> sure;  at netdev 1.2 there was a discussion on vnic performance and specifically offload features, in KVM and containers
<cpaelzer> I checked Xenial and Yakkety and we were already at the recommended setting
<rharper> exercised on top of 16.04
<rharper> I wanted to see the paper/slides so I could get the data
<cpaelzer> the question is what else could/should we (not?) do based on that
<cpaelzer> rharper: getting data would be nice - just to see if there are any outliers that we want to care for
<rharper> yeah
<rharper> exactly
<rharper> specifically  VM to VM and container to container (LXD)  vs. say docker (libnetwork )
<rharper> bridge mode vs. something else
<cpaelzer> what is good is that the most common "huge" case for us will be openstack and that is optimized a lot for east/west traffic in VM/VM
<rharper> right
<cpaelzer> about 4 times faster than what they had, but getting access to the data would allow to get from "I assume" to "we know"
<cpaelzer> and for the container east/west I'm interested to know about
<cpaelzer> rharper: will you kindly inquire that data?
<rharper> yeah, I need to look around for more details
<rharper> the other performance (which I don't know if the video covered)
<rharper> is small-packet-performance, latency
<cpaelzer> rharper: the video did not cover the others
<cpaelzer> rharper: I had it running in background
<cpaelzer> rharper: didn't come back to it
<rharper> I ran across an interesting KVM paper on that;
<cpaelzer> rharper: wait that was Stephen Hemminger right?
<rharper> yes
<cpaelzer> I'll likely meet him on Thursday on DPDK Userspace
<cpaelzer> while I feel buried I tihnk I'll define another action for me
<cpaelzer> at least to kindly ask for more there
<rharper> sure
<cpaelzer> #action cpaelzer will try to ask Stephen Hemminger for more data on the netdev presentation
<meetingology> ACTION: cpaelzer will try to ask Stephen Hemminger for more data on the netdev presentation
<powersj> any other actions?
<cpaelzer> I stalled you long enough - I'm done
<powersj> any other topics?
<jgrimm> nacc, .. import status?
<powersj> yes - shall I update the agenda to say "zesty" instead of "yakkety"?
<jgrimm> powersj, yes please!
<brauner> have we agreed on zesty as the new release name?
<powersj> #ACTION powersj to update agenda to remove yakkety add in zesty
<meetingology> ACTION: powersj to update agenda to remove yakkety add in zesty
<rharper> #link http://www.linux-kvm.org/images/d/df/02x11-AspenMario_Smarduch-Migrating_NFV_applicatoins_to_KVM_Guest.pdf
<jgrimm> brauner: Zesty Zapus
<nacc> jgrimm: i need to sync with rbasak on tagging and we should be ready for 1.0
<powersj> brauner: http://www.markshuttleworth.com/
<nacc> jgrimm: importer seemed to run fine last night on the packages we care about, i wanted to confirm with rbasak that all the MRs we did last cycle are tagged
<jgrimm> cool.. we can start assigning out some merges once done and zesty open for business!
<nacc> jgrimm: my plan is to update all the lpusip trees by EOW and then we will look to flip over to lpusdp
<jgrimm> great!
<nacc> working on documentation today
<powersj> last call!
<powersj> #topic Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Assigned merges/bugwork (rbasak)
<powersj> since he is out, just a friendly reminder to update the sheet!
 * jgrimm thought he killed that from agenda
<powersj> lol it is in the copy and paste page
<jgrimm> ahhh
<powersj> I'll remove it
<jgrimm> thanks
<powersj> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<powersj> Same time, same place
<powersj> beisner will be our host
<powersj> that's all folks!
<powersj> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 18 16:45:06 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-10-18-16.03.moin.txt
<rharper> powersj: thanks !
<nacc> powersj: thanks!
<jgrimm> thanks powersj
<powersj> o/
<jgrimm> powersj, http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-10-18-16.03.moin.txt
<powersj> jgrimm: brilliant thank you
<jgrimm> np, you'll see that above ^^ when you did your endmeeting
<powersj> oh look at that :)
<xnox> cpaelzer, yeah adam will send archive open for development email, when it's open.
<xnox> if you upload things now they will just be stuck in unapproved queue for zesty
#ubuntu-meeting 2016-10-20
<homa_> hi
<homa_> how can i access sells of memory in ubuntu
<homa_> for set 1 and 0
 * slangasek waves
<caribou> o/
<robru> \o
<tdaitx> o/
<pitti> o/
<chiluk> o\
<slangasek> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 20 15:02:01 2016 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<slangasek> [TOPIC] Lightning round
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
<slangasek> $ echo $(shuf -e barry doko bdmurray slangasek caribou infinity sil2100 robru cyphermox pitti tdaitx xnox chiluk mwhudson)
<slangasek> barry infinity tdaitx slangasek robru doko mwhudson chiluk sil2100 bdmurray pitti xnox cyphermox caribou
<slangasek> barry!
<bdmurray> I'm not here
<barry> i knew it!  the one day i'm not quite ready ;)
<pitti> did you sort by age now? :-)
<barry> beard length
<tdaitx> barry, been there =)
<caribou> pitti: I'd come first
<barry> well, let's see if i can do it on the fly
<barry> LP: #1634557
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1634557 in Ubuntu Image "The writable partition is corrupted using the latest ubuntu-image(0.8 )" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634557
<barry> working on the ubuntu-image 0.8 and 0.9 releases + sru request and exemption.  also working on autopkgtests for proving the images are mountable
<barry> pyparsing 2.1.10+dfsg-1, virtualenv discussions
<barry> debian bug #840084
<ubottu> Debian bug 840084 in python-virtualenv "python-virtualenv: âMultiple .dist-info directoriesâ when creating virtualenv" [Normal,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/840084
<sil2100> o/
<barry> LP: #1631156
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1631156 in Ubuntu Image "flake8.extension entry point has global ramifications" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631156
<barry> LP: #1594794
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1594794 in Snapcraft "Embedded version required in snapcraft.yaml" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1594794
<barry> tox 2.4.1-1
<barry> LP: #1633501
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1633501 in Ubuntu Image "Better handling of version numbers" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1633501
<barry> LP: #1632085
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1632085 in Ubuntu Image "Support "fudge factor" for file system sizing" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1632085
<barry> LP: #1632134
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1632134 in Ubuntu Image "/etc files are missing from the image" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1632134
<barry> LP: #1631961
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1631961 in Ubuntu Image "Cannot build ubuntu-image snap" [Critical,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631961
<barry> u-i coverage branch
<barry> --done--
<slangasek> no infinity, so tdaitx:
<tdaitx> = OpenJDK Updates
<tdaitx> * Updated OpenJDK 8 to 8u102 and applied security updates to it; moved to 8u111 as it got released
<tdaitx> * Added autopkgtest to it
<tdaitx> * Cleaned up mauve and cacao as those projects are mostly dead and we haven't been building using either since some time ago
<tdaitx> * Disabled armhf tests as they were getting stuck (running for 36+ hours, BTW, does launchpad mishandle "days" in a build? It only says (X mod 24) hours)
<tdaitx> * Backporting patches to OpenJDK 7
<tdaitx> = jck
<tdaitx> * Added avahi/nss-msdns to handle reverse dns between jenkins nodes; vxlan also works and is great to stitch together lxd containers on the same network
<tdaitx> * ppc64el/arm64 nodes are indeed running on a separated network from amd64 nodes, waiting for IS to either move all of them to the same region (or allow communication between them)
<tdaitx> = Other
<tdaitx> * Daylight savings started last weekend (UTC-02:00 now)
<tdaitx> (done)
<slangasek>  * yay release!
<slangasek>  * everybody feeling zesty?
<slangasek>  * discussions around future POWER work
<slangasek>  * discussions around autopkgtest reporting
<slangasek>  * update on Core sprint is that there's still no update (but should be soon)
<slangasek>  * getting my merges in early in the cycle
<slangasek>  * SRU reviews, SRU exception approval for ubuntu-image
<slangasek>  * discussions on -release about future configuration of -proposed
<slangasek>  * ubuntu-image: bugfixes (LP: #1634557), planning out future work
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1634557 in Ubuntu Image "The writable partition is corrupted using the latest ubuntu-image(0.8 )" [Medium,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634557
<slangasek>  * updated kernels on a bunch of systems and rebooted (CVE-2016-5195)
<ubottu> ** RESERVED ** This candidate has been reserved by an organization or individual that will use it when announcing a new security problem.  When the candidate has been publicized, the details for this candidate will be provided. (http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvename.cgi?name=CVE-2016-5195)
<slangasek> (done)
<robru> britney2-ubuntu:
<robru> * several iterations towards grouping packages by source ppa copied from
<robru> lp:bileto
<robru> * opened zesty
<robru> * implemented support for triggering ubuntu system tests (just waiting for production creds)
<robru> * use uuidgen instead of uuid
<robru> * various minor cleanups and maintenance
<robru> various wikis:
<robru> * migrated lots of old ci train deployment docs to bileto deployment docs
<robru> (done)
<slangasek> tdaitx: (X mod 24) hours - heh, I haven't noticed that before; file a bug on LP?
<slangasek> doko:
<doko> - toolchain updates for zesty opening
<doko> - merged GCC Linaro 2016.10
<doko> - finished evaluation of Linaro test rebuild
<doko> - openjdk-8 update, openjdk-9 update
<doko> (done)
<slangasek> chiluk:
<chiluk> Not much from me today.  The only thing you guys would care about is the initramfs-tools stuff that cyphermox and slangasek already know about.
<chiluk> -done-
<cyphermox> you said the i word.
<sil2100> On the closing plenaries, but:
<sil2100> - Sprinting this week in Hague, meetings, discussions, sessions, plenaries * Not much time for real work, meetings meetings
<sil2100> - Landing team work, silo coordination, preparing landing e-mails
<sil2100> - Working on the snap integration in Bileto specification
<sil2100> - Working on the general release process for Ubuntu Personal
<sil2100> - Some finishing touches to the landing-team-tools snap
<sil2100> - Batch binary copying from yakkety-overlay to zesty
<sil2100> (done)
<slangasek> bdmurray is also sprinting so maybe skip
<slangasek> pitti:
<pitti> autopkgtest:
<pitti>  - Fix result collisions when tests finish at exact same second (#1571353)
<pitti>  - Fix virt-qemu for user/password logins on ttyS0 (#1630963)
<pitti>  - Install credentials for snapcraft upstream tests
<pitti>  - Provide request.cgi based GitHub test retry script (to avoid limiting this to infrastructure maintainers)
<pitti>  - Rework retry-autopkgtest-regressions script to use request.cgi instead of snakefruit ssh access
<pitti>  - Rewrite tool to seed passed results from current into next release; previous version was way too slow (multiple days) and crash prone
<pitti>  - Adjust proxy rules for changed firewall rules
<pitti>  - Add --capability option to ssh runner, to be able to run linux test with qemu+ssh
<pitti>  - Do not include time for tmpfail retries in result runtimes (#1631262)
<pitti>  - Build scalingstack images/containers and other setup for zesty
<pitti>  - Review https://code.launchpad.net/~robru/britney/+git/britney2-ubuntu/+merge/307995 for teaching PPA landing support to britney; still needs some work (ongoing)
<pitti> britney:
<pitti>  - Rebase to Debian master, to shrink our diff (some of our patches got applied upstream)
<pitti>  - Generalize "Policy" code to allow implementing autopkgtests as a proper Policy; this should also be a step towards robru's PPA landing support
<pitti> distro:
<pitti>  - lots of release engineering and testing for yakkety, and some distro bits for zestry (#1634235)
<pitti>  - docker.io: debug autopkgtest failure with mwhudson, works now
<pitti>  - merges: libkipi, debhelper; some syncs
<pitti>  - netplan: Add support for manually specified name servers (#1626617)
<pitti>  - NetworkManager: Port our "read connections and config from /run" patches to 1.4 and forward upstream
<pitti>  - systemd: Fix change notification regression (#1632964), fix search domains with networkd in xenial (#1635256)
<pitti>  - Fix remaining issues of indicator systemd-ification landing (ongoing, but making good progress)
<pitti>  - Migrate from pkg-create-dbgsym to debhelper (#1623256) (ongoing)
<pitti> misc:
<pitti>  - ddeb-retriever: Battle with LP timeouts on getting zesty publications; cjwatson/wgrant are landing a Launchpad fix, so hopefully ddebs should appear in the next days
<pitti>  - Investigate linux test that completely kills the kernel/testbed (#1632252)
<pitti> (END)
<pitti> sorry for the length -- I guess I should get a hobby or so :)
<doko> I thought that was the french ...
<pitti> je ne prends plus des leÃ§ons ..
<pitti> xnox: ?
<pitti> cyphermox:
<cyphermox> sowwy
<cyphermox> - preparing & testing the new shim and grub2 update to go with it
<cyphermox> - sponsored d-i SRU for preseed change (bug LP: #1452202)
<cyphermox> - new golang-go.crypto snapshot for juju-core (bug LP: #1634609)
<cyphermox> - initramfs-tools reverts of the ipv6 code (LP: #1631474)
<sil2100> xnox is on the sprint as well
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1452202 in debian-installer (Ubuntu Xenial) "ubuntu preseed install fails to set a hostname" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1452202
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1634609 in golang-go.crypto (Ubuntu Zesty) "de-vendorize golang-go.crypto from juju-core" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1634609
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1631474 in initramfs-tools (Ubuntu Zesty) "No networking with initramfs-tools 0.122ubuntu8.3 and ip=dhcp boot option" [High,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1631474
<cyphermox> - reworking initramfs-tools IPv6 magic
<cyphermox>   + testing in a PPA, various VMs and hardware
<cyphermox> - setting up a half-proper MAAS server at home to test remote rootfs
<cyphermox> - various juju / packaging discussions with balloons
<cyphermox> - probert bugfix for snappy
<cyphermox> - reviewed subiquity PRs for mwhudson
<slangasek> cyphermox: done?
<cyphermox> yes done!
<caribou> Bugfix:
<caribou> Slow SSH login
<caribou>    - Still under investigation with LP: #1591411
<caribou>    - Unable to reproduce using ssh loops
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1591411 in dbus (Ubuntu Xenial) "systemd-logind must be restarted every ~1000 SSH logins to prevent a ~25 second delay" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1591411
<caribou> Development:
<caribou> makedumpfile not working on kernel 4.8 (LP: #1626269)
<caribou>  - Still under investigation, bisecting 4.7 -> 4.8-rc1
<ubottu> Error: Could not gather data from Launchpad for bug #1626269 (https://launchpad.net/bugs/1626269). The error has been logged
<caribou> Meetings
<caribou> â Done
<slangasek> cyphermox: what's the status of the shim update, then? testing going well?
<cyphermox> yep, testing is well, we should talk about whether we want to clean up the ESP's old MokManager too though
<slangasek> cyphermox: under the old name?  hmm, +1 for cleaning that up on upgrade
<slangasek> (with a version check in postinst)
<cyphermox> yeah, that was my thought. so that will still be missing
<slangasek> ok
<slangasek> any other questions?
<sil2100> Good here
<slangasek> [TOPIC] AOB
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
<slangasek> and anything else that's not a question? :)
<cyphermox> so you already mentioned the core sprint, no update
<barry> i'd love to get a summary about the sprint once folks get home and decompress
<slangasek> cyphermox: yes - no change to dates, just some administrative hold-up, we're still "on track" just finalizing later than we would like
<cyphermox> well, we still haven't had a go to book stuff?
<slangasek> cyphermox: correct
<cyphermox> ack
<slangasek> you'll know when you have an event code :)
<bdmurray> the calendar has a code
<slangasek> I assume we'll be told we have an 8 hour window in which to book, otherwise we're late and get nag mails ;-)
<cyphermox> well, the only other thing from me is that I'm about damn ready to sell my condo, the government sprung some new financing rules that might make that more difficult, but who knows.
<pitti> that doesn't depend on where we go for the sprint, does it?
<slangasek> cyphermox: were you right on the border?  is the government eminent domaining it to build a wall
<cyphermox> nope.
<mdeslaur> lol
<cyphermox> ;)
<cyphermox> but for those who want to move to Canada... ;)
<slangasek> my neighbors just went on a Canadian Atlantic cruise
<slangasek> I told them about http://cbiftrumpwins.com/ before they went
<tdaitx> maybe it *was* a 1 way ticket...
<cyphermox> I'm not sure about broadband in Cape Breton...
<bdmurray> slangasek: the neighbors I know?
<slangasek> tdaitx: they're back now, but they sent a lovely postcard telling us they were shopping for real estate
<slangasek> bdmurray: yes ;)
<barry> in case of a win or a loss
<slangasek> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 20 15:34:11 2016 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2016/ubuntu-meeting.2016-10-20-15.02.moin.txt
<caribou> thanks slangasek
<slangasek> thanks, all!
<pitti> thanks everyone!
<barry> thanks!
<tdaitx> "shopping for real state" makes it sound easier than it is...
<tdaitx> thanks! =)
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-10-16
<tyhicks> hello
<tyhicks> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 16 16:31:48 2017 UTC.  The chair is tyhicks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<mdeslaur> \o
<tyhicks> The meeting agenda can be found at:
<tyhicks> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Announcements
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Announcements
<tyhicks> Simon Quigley (tsimonq2) provided debdiffs for trusty-artful for git (LP: #1719740)
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1719740 in git (Ubuntu Artful) "[CVE] Git cvsserver OS Command Injection" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1719740
<tyhicks> Thank you for your assistance in keeping Ubuntu users secure! :)
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Weekly stand-up report
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> I'm currently publishing wpa updates
<mdeslaur> and I have some xorg updates to test and publish after that
<mdeslaur> I'll be picking something off the list after
<mdeslaur> that's about it
<mdeslaur> sbeattie: you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<bittin> i am helping with some Ubuntu ISO testing :p
<sbeattie> I'm working on a perl update, and have another update to finish testing
<sbeattie> I need to look at some apparmor tasks
<sbeattie> and I'll pick up another update off the list.
<sbeattie> that's it for me. tyhicks?
<tyhicks> I'll be doing SRU verifications this week for libseccomp and seccomp kernel changes
<tyhicks> oh, I'm on community this week
<tyhicks> I'm in the process of going back through the ecryptfs kernel queue and getting certain fixes headed to 4.14 and others to 4.15
<tyhicks> I'll have a bit more work to do upstream for libseccomp and libseccomp-golang this week once a couple PR reviews are completed but the hard work is already done there
<tyhicks> finally, I need to get back on top of my email inbox after falling behind while traveling lately
<tyhicks> I suspect that there will be some items that fall out of that
<tyhicks> jjohansen: you're up
<jjohansen> I am ignoring everyone this week until I can the unix socket RFC out
<tyhicks> good idea
<tyhicks> feel free to leave it at that :)
<jjohansen> after which I have a back log of bugs to investigate, and possibly 2.9, and 2.10 point releases
<jjohansen> sarnold: you're up
<sarnold> I'm on cve triage this week, but I think ratliff is going to help out in the mornings :) otherwise it'll be running down the MIRs.. spice-vdagent is in progress atm
<sarnold> also reviewing whatever it is john prepares for aa upstreaming
<sarnold> and maybe this is the week I finally bid farewell to my beloved pentadactyl and waste an entire day trying webbrowsers :(
<sarnold> that's it for me, chrisccoulson?
<chrisccoulson> I need to update rust to 1.20 everywhere
<chrisccoulson> I'll also need to sync up with will at some point to discuss the startpage in firefox
<chrisccoulson> Fingers crossed, after that I'll be able to focus on the stuff I discussed with tyhicks at the sprint
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<ratliff> I'm on bug triage this week.
<tyhicks> I hope you'll be able to get to that
<mdeslaur> chrisccoulson: oh! can we vote what it should be? I vote for beesbeesbees.com
<chrisccoulson> mdeslaur, haha :)
<ratliff> sarnold covered for me on CVE triage last week while I was sprinting, so I am going to return the favor this week :)
<ratliff> I have a number of tasks resulting from last's weeks sprint to focus on for this week.
<ratliff> on to you, leosilva
<leosilva> I'm in the happy place this week.
<leosilva> I'll do the usual pkg hunting
<leosilva> also have some reads and investigations to do in snap packaging.
<leosilva> also have some readings in sssd (it's hard to test it :()
<leosilva> that is from me,
<leosilva> tyhicks: it's back to you!
<tyhicks> thanks
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Highlighted packages
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Highlighted packages
<tyhicks> The Ubuntu Security team will highlight some community-supported packages that might be good candidates for updating and or triaging. If you would like to help Ubuntu and not sure where to start, this is a great way to do so.
<tyhicks> See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/UpdateProcedures for details and if you have any questions, feel free to ask in #ubuntu-security. To find out other ways of helping out, please see https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/GettingInvolved.
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/connman.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/libbluray.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/efl.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/tomboy.html
<tyhicks> https://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/pkg/qpid-proton.html
<tyhicks> [TOPIC] Miscellaneous and Questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Miscellaneous and Questions
<tsimonq2> tyhicks: :D
<tyhicks> Does anyone have any other questions or items to discuss?
<tsimonq2> Also, hi everyone :)
<tyhicks> I'll just repeat what was mentioned earlier regarding the wpa updates
<tyhicks> mdeslaur released updates about an hour ago
<tyhicks> see https://usn.ubuntu.com/usn/usn-3455-1/ for details
<tyhicks> mdeslaur: thanks for handling those updates
<mdeslaur> np
<tyhicks> hi tsimonq2
<tyhicks> :)
<tyhicks> mdeslaur, sbeattie, jjohansen, sarnold, ChrisCoulson, ratliff, leosilva: Thanks!
<tyhicks> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 16 16:50:35 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-10-16-16.31.moin.txt
<sarnold> thanks tyhicks :)
<ratliff> thank you, tyhicks!
<sarnold> hey tsimonq2 :)
<mdeslaur> thanks tyhicks
<tsimonq2> Thanks tyhicks :)
<sbeattie> tyhicks: thanks!
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-10-17
 * dpb1 starts up a blazing bonfire and considers throwing the irc meeting on it
<dpb1> brb, getting coffee
<powersj> o/
<cpaelzer> o/
<dpb1> #startmeeting ubuntu-server-team
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 17 16:01:15 2017 UTC.  The chair is dpb1. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic:
<dpb1> welcome everyone
<dpb1> you'll notice the blazing bonfire behind you, be careful
<dpb1> #topic Review ACTION points from previous meeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Review ACTION points from previous meeting
<dpb1> * nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> * nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> * rbasak to add maintainership info to mysql triage page (carried over)
<nacc> dpb1: carry
<dpb1> * nacc to consider http2 info in artful release notes (carried over)
<dpb1> smoser: I completed yours since the release notes *do* have cloud-init and curtin info on them
<dpb1> rbasak: I'm assuming this week is not the week?
<rbasak> Right
<nacc> dpb1: well and given that it was reverted again, that can be dropped (the apache)
<dpb1> thnx
<dpb1> will drop from next weeks agenda
<dpb1> ACTION nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> #ACTION nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a release notes entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> there we go
<dpb1> #ACTION  nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<meetingology> ACTION: nacc to write a server guide entry on ipv6 netboot (carried over)
<dpb1> Any other previous business?
<dpb1> moving on.
<dpb1> #topic Ubuntu Server Development
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Ubuntu Server Development
<dpb1> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtfulAardvark/ReleaseSchedule
<dpb1> #link https://trello.com/b/U9HhWyT0/daily-ubuntu-server
<dpb1> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-aa-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<dpb1> #info Artful release is on Thursday!
<cpaelzer> today was a full respin
<cpaelzer> so a lot of things waiting got in
<cpaelzer> but it might (hopefully) have been the last one
<dpb1> Things I'm excited about for early next cycle:  subiquity
<dpb1> we'll be making it the default installer soon.
 * powersj wonders about automated ISO testing then
<dpb1> d-i will still be there
<dpb1> but in a parallel image
<powersj> ah ok
<dpb1> but yes, it's something we should look at over the next 6 months
<dpb1> I also wanted to remind people of a couple other places where you can interact with the server community
<dpb1> #subtopic FYI: Interact with the Ubuntu Community
<dpb1> #link https://community.ubuntu.com/
<dpb1> #link https://askubuntu.com/
<dpb1> the new community hub (at https://community.ubuntu.com/) is gaining traction.  It's discourse based.
<andreas> the community one doesn't seem to have a server category yet
<dpb1> andreas: so far, I have just seen rbasak over there talking
<dpb1> anyway, more of an announcement than anything
<dpb1> ok, let's move on, this fire is hot
<dpb1> #topic Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Server & Cloud Bugs & SRU/Pending Uploads (slashd, ddstreet)
<dpb1> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-z-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<dpb1> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-x-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<dpb1> #link http://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-t-tracking-bug-tasks.html#ubuntu-server
<ddstreet> #link http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/25760028/
<ddstreet> a few bugs, but they are all being worked
<ddstreet> some are waiting for the b-release to open, others are in progress
<dpb1> hi ddstreet
<ddstreet> hi
<dpb1> what about #1686437
<dpb1> who's working that one?
<dpb1> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/simplestreams/+bug/1686437
<ubottu> Launchpad bug 1686437 in simplestreams (Ubuntu Zesty) "glance sync: need keystone v3 auth support" [Medium,Confirmed]
<ddstreet> it's waiting on smoser to provide feedback, i believe
<dpb1> bug status on there is weird
<ddstreet> on where, that bug?
<dpb1> #ACTION dpb1 to follow up on #1686437
<meetingology> ACTION: dpb1 to follow up on #1686437
<ddstreet> check comment 4, slashd let me know that smoser and thedac would be discussing it
<ddstreet> so it's waiting on them for next steps
 * dpb1 nods
<dpb1> ok, thanks ddstreet
<dpb1> moving on
<dpb1> #topic Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (smb, sforshee)
<smb> Nothing from my side
<dpb1> ok
<dpb1> #topic Open Discussion
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Open Discussion
<dpb1> The always popular open discussion section
<powersj> If you want to help do some Server ISO testing check out the tracker
<powersj> #link http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/milestones/383/builds
<powersj> I'll upload automated ISO test results shortly, but having others try it is always good
<dpb1> btw
<dpb1> the subiquity installer can be tested in artful now
<powersj> ah yes the live iso
 * dpb1 struggles to find link
<powersj> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily-live/current/
<dpb1> #link http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily-live/current/
<dpb1> yes, thanks
<dpb1> #topic Announce next meeting date, time and chair
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-server-team Meeting | Current topic: Announce next meeting date, time and chair
<dpb1> #info Next meeting Tuesday, 2017-10-24 at 1600 UTC, chair will be teward
<dpb1> teward: that ok with your schedule?
<dpb1> teward: ping me in #ubuntu-server with any response. :)
<dpb1> take care all!
<dpb1> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 17 16:19:33 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-10-17-16.01.moin.txt
<dpb1> o/
<andreas> o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2017-10-19
<rbalint> o/
<sil2100> o/
<tdaitx> \o
<Odd_Bloke> o/
<Tribaal> \o/
<gaughen> o/
<rcj> Happy Birthday gaughen!
<sil2100> Oooh! Real birthday?
<rcj> Oh, sorry Artful's b-day, not yours gaughen.  I always get those confused.
<Tribaal> sil2100: of _course_
<Tribaal> :)
<sil2100> ;)
<sil2100> Ah, right, we usually didn't have team meetings on release weeks
<rbalint> (highlight) Artful is out! :-) \o/
<sil2100> \o/
<flexiondotorg> ahoneybun wxl elacheche jose marcoceppi We have a CC meeting. Are you all available?
<jose> I am, but it's in an hour
<ahoneybun> I am
<ahoneybun> I'll be around
<flexiondotorg> jose: Yep :-) Just pinging people ahead of time.
<jose> good!
<elacheche> flexiondotorg: o/ it's in an hour, it'll be 6pm here, so I'll just stay @work for the meeting :)
 * elacheche is lucky to live in UTC+1 TZ :p ;-)
<wxl> flexiondotorg: we have a meeting NOW?
<wxl> oh nevermind
<wxl> jeez i almost had a heart attack. i CAN"T be here sooner
<flexiondotorg> In 5 mins
<elopio> hello.
<elacheche> o/
<elopio> let's do this! :D
<flexiondotorg> Evening
<elopio> hello Martin. Congrats on the release!
<flexiondotorg> Thank you :-)
<flexiondotorg> So, I didn't finish everything I wanted from the last CC meeting.
<flexiondotorg> So we don't have a proper agenda.
<flexiondotorg> But we can improvise one last time.
<elopio> flexiondotorg: please remember to start the bot.
<elopio> +1 on building the agenda as we go. And I have a point I would like to propose related to video chats. Also, I would like to talk about the loco council candidates.
<elopio> I think that's it from me.
<flexiondotorg> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Thu Oct 19 17:04:40 2017 UTC.  The chair is flexiondotorg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<flexiondotorg> Right, let's see who could make it :-)
<flexiondotorg> elopio jose wxl ahoneybun elacheche marcoceppi You all here?
<wxl> yes
<elacheche> +1 elopio.. I'd like to plan a meeting with the LC members a while after the new team is chosen.. We have a big issue in keeping active LoCos and contributors.. We need to change something..
<elopio> yes
<ahoneybun> here
<flexiondotorg> I'm sure I saw jose earlier too.
<flexiondotorg> So, I was talking about moving the agenda prep, meeting summaries and CC information to the Ubuntu Community Hub last time.
<flexiondotorg> I have madea start on that, but didn't finish.
<flexiondotorg> We have a category over there and half the content from the wiki is moved.
<flexiondotorg> Tomorrow I'll complete that.
<ahoneybun> cool thanks flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> And post a meeting summary for this meeting an open an agenda for the next neeting so we can ask for feedback/ideas etc.
<wxl> excellent
<elopio> +1. Thank you flexiondotorg
<flexiondotorg> So, is everyone signed up on the hub?
<wxl> i think moving forward, that's the number one thing we can do: be approachable to the community and transparent in our work
 * wxl is
<flexiondotorg> +1
<elopio> flexiondotorg: you didn't post the summary for the past meeting. Do you want me to do it so you can continue with your plan?
<wxl> yes, that would be imperative
<flexiondotorg> elopio: Feel free to post your summary notes in the Hub.
<wxl> i had thought someone (elopio?) offered to translate???
<flexiondotorg> I'm an admin there and I'll add anything from mine that is relevant.
<flexiondotorg> I'm going to make a meeting template.
<elopio> wxl: I translated the full log.
<wxl> you are amazing, sir :)
<elopio> I will post the summary, and translate it too. I can do it for this meeting also.
<flexiondotorg> Brilliant!
<flexiondotorg> So, other topics we discussed last time were potentially using video/voice calls.
<flexiondotorg> Anyone got thoughts on that?
<wxl> for the community, correct?
<flexiondotorg> Well, I wasn't clear on that.
<elopio> I have opinions there! Anybody wants to go before me?
<wxl> well let's start by separating this
<wxl> let's first talk about doing video/voice calls as a way of providing a platform for the community to reach us
<wxl> that said, go for it, elopio
<elopio> so, I have been talking with a few people from locos
<elopio> on the last meeting, I assumed that video meetings for the council would be approved by everybody, but that clearly didn't happen. After talking with them, now I have a proposal:
<elopio> - Let's keep these two council meetings per month on text/IRC.
<elopio> - Let's start video meetings with people from locos every other week.
<elopio> My idea is something like ubuntu hour, every other friday. We can have two different hours, one for americas, one for europe. Maybe we can add one more later.
<jose> unless it's voluntary, I'm not sure I like the idea. video meetings just add another barrier, on top if the language one.
<wxl> my feeling: i don't love video. i'll do it if need be, but my preference is definitely irc or some text platform. there were some comments from flocculant that agreed with that notion
<elopio> We tell all the locos to join a hangout at that time. Ideally, we are all at a meeting place, cafe, bar, coworking, so we can invite people to attend.
<wxl> that said, i would like us to offer BOTH
<wxl> because there are some people that like video
<elopio> oh, totally voluntary. If you want to host an ubuntu hour, we just suggest you to do it at the same time. So we can start working together, and talking, and having fun.
<wxl> the primary way to reach us would be through these meetings but we could also do a "follow up" meeting
<jose> the mailing list should also work to contact us
<elopio> so, my proposal is distributed Ubuntu hour connected through hangouts, every other firdday.
<wxl> i think the idea of having an additional video meeting is good as a way to invite people to reach us
<wxl> we've been inviting people to email us for years
<wxl> but obviously the emails aren't coming in
<elacheche> I don't like video, but, if this will help solve some LoCos related issues, I'd like to be part of it!
<ahoneybun> Videos are good put depends on the platform for some people
<jose> don't leave email behind. real time communication is great, but what happens when we're not online?
<wxl> to be clear: +1 for adding video as an additional form of communication and having a separate meeting for that purpose
<wxl> also to be further clear: i do not want to stop these meetings nor email. these should be our PRIMARY form of communication
<wxl> of course, i'm old. i like text. we live in a world dominated by video. we are going to get people through video that we wouldn't otherwise
<jose> so, cover all our bases
<wxl> yes
<wxl> all the base are belong to us
<jose> I'm not old but I don't like video because it introduces a language and time barrier.
<elopio> jose: for offline communication, we now have the awesome hub!
<jose> well, I wouldn't take that for CC communications.
<elopio> my proposal last week was to replace textual meetings. My proposal this week is to meet on video additionally.
<wxl> i agree with that proposal
<jose> well
<elopio> jose: if somebody needs to talk to us privately, she can send an email. If the discussion is public, it should be on the hub, per last meeting discussion.
<jose> the CC used to have these monthly meetings, as well as bi-weekly meetings on hangouts
<wxl> and i really want us to work more towards transparency. i don't want to hide our conversations unless we need to protect someone's privacy.
<elacheche> +1 wxl
<jose> now, transparency doesn't mean we have to host everything publicly. it's more about providing key information.
<jose> it's no use if we have a one-hour video online if we just rumble about things
<flexiondotorg> Just an FYI, we can't embed YouTube videos in the Ubuntu Communty Hub.
<jose> instead, a detailed report with key items works better
<wxl> rumbling about things is a great way to guage the community
<wxl> we're not here to serve the community council
<wxl> we're here to serve the community
<jose> per onair metrics, people don't watch more than 10m of video
<jose> actually, I would like to see the onair metrics before we move forward
<elopio> jose: I'm not proposing video council meetings anymore. I'm proposing informal video chats with the people who want to join.
<wxl> yes, elopio, yes
<wxl> i would like to move forward with the experiment and then take metrics of that
<wxl> onair is not necessarily indicitive of what we'd be doing
<jose> I have to drop now but I'll write in later
 * chiluk is lurking.
<elopio> hello chiluk :)
<chiluk> So you guys mentioned the hub, but what's the link to it?
<elopio> community.ubuntu.com
<elopio> so, who would like to join the ubuntu hour on air experiment next friday?
<flexiondotorg> Friday's a tricky for me because we often schedule other events then.
<elopio> with a couple of us, we can see how it goes and then decide if it's worth to keep promoting it.
<elopio> flexiondotorg: would you like us to try a different day, or to go ahead without you?
<elacheche> elopio: time?
<flexiondotorg> We what works for most people?
<flexiondotorg> There will be Fridays I can make it.
<elopio> elacheche: I'm thinking a couple of hours after lunch time. I don't know, for this side of the world maybe 19 UTC.
<wxl> i'm game
<flexiondotorg> So, who can help with that ^
<wxl> although i sure wish we'd use matrix grumble grumble grumble
<elopio> or maybe even later, 21UTC. For europe/africa, you will have to decide what's best.
<elacheche> 7pm UTC, That's great for me..
<elacheche> anything after 7pm utc is good to me
<flexiondotorg> OK, so that is three of us.
<wxl> i can do that i think
<elopio> wxl: I would love to use matrix. But sadly, that excludes me :( There's no way I can make it with my bandwidth
<wxl> bummer, elopio :(
<flexiondotorg> So elopio will you own organising those?
<elopio> alright, let's start with 19 UTC next week, and see what happens.
<elopio> flexiondotorg: yes, well, the first one. :) I'll need help with the following ones.
<wxl> also i'd like to define organizing as getting the word out
<elacheche> elopio: my bandwidth is very bad too, but I'll try
<wxl> this is something we should broadcast far and wide. across all community mailing lists. the forums. community.u.c. everywher.e
<elopio> elacheche: you'll probably be fine with google hangouts. Worst case, you will be audio only. But we can test it before.
<elacheche> No problem :) :)
<flexiondotorg> elopio: Thoughts about using the Hub to gather agenda feedback for LoCo meeting?
<popey> +1 from me :)
<elopio> flexiondotorg: do you mean council or loco meeting?
<popey> I would love there to be more event and loco based activity there
<flexiondotorg> wxl Yes, some else we discussed is broadening the social reach of the CC.
<wxl> please organize a test time with us, elopio. preferably not 5 minutes before the meeting XD
<flexiondotorg> ANd I'll do the social thing.
<flexiondotorg> Who can own posting to the MLs?
<elopio> wxl: will do. And let's try together to make the invitation reach everybody.
<wxl> i can do it if elopio gets the details together and emails me
<wxl> s/it/the MLs/
<elopio> flexiondotorg: anyway, I'm +1 on using the forum for everything. After this meeting I can also start a topic to gather agenda items for the following one.
<elopio> sorry, not forum, hub.
<elopio> honest mistake. :S
<flexiondotorg> elopio: OK, that's fine. Do you mind if I edit that though?
<elopio> flexiondotorg: I do not.
<wxl> um, community is discourse, right?
<flexiondotorg> I'd like to start to create a template for this stuff, to keep things consistent and easy to do in the future.
<elopio> that's very nice of you.
<elacheche> wxl: yep
<elopio> wxl yes, the community hub is discourse.
<wxl> i'm surprised is doesn't do youtube embeds
<popey> Known issue with firewalls.
<wxl> ahhhh
<popey> I'm working with IS to get it fixed
<flexiondotorg> wxl Discourse does. But security requirements for our hosted stuff doesn't.
<popey> it's on the radar
<elopio> thank you popey.
<wxl> popey: you're the man :)
<flexiondotorg> Anyone got anything else they want to discuss?
<wxl> not right now
<elacheche> same here
<flexiondotorg> OK, then shall we call this to a close.
<flexiondotorg> elopio: and I can get the Hub ready for business and we can better prepare for the next meeting and LoCo out reach.
<wxl> thanks everyone
<popey> flexiondotorg: i can help you
<wxl> i'm glad to see we're getting our footing on us
<wxl> s/on/under/
<popey> flexiondotorg: lets set aside an hour tomorrow to do it?
<flexiondotorg> popey: Thanks!
<wxl> i look forward to making ubuntu better, together
<flexiondotorg> Well, if there is no more.
<flexiondotorg> Shall we close this meeting in 5...
<flexiondotorg> 4...
<flexiondotorg> 3...
<elacheche> Thanks guys! Have a good day/night
<flexiondotorg> 2...
<wxl> be well folks :)
<flexiondotorg> 1...
<flexiondotorg> Thanks everyone
<flexiondotorg> #stopmeeting
<flexiondotorg> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
<meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Oct 19 17:45:43 2017 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2017/ubuntu-meeting.2017-10-19-17.04.moin.txt
<elopio-test> what??? riot disconnected me
<popey> snap install irccloud-desktop
<popey> ;)
<elopio-test> this has been solid, until now.
<elopio-test> oh well, I'll read the logs.
<elopio-test> wxl: do you know how many people have been proposed to the loco council?
<wxl> elopio-test: i think 5 if i remember correctly, but i'd have to count
<elopio-test> wxl: how many do we need to make the voting?
<wxl> elopio-test: do you mean how many until we've filled all the seats, how many until we have quorum, or what?
<elopio-test> wxl: I'm not sure what I mean. I guess my question is: should I keep trying to convince more people to propose? I don't have many more options left, I don't know many ubuntu members.
<wxl> elopio-test: let me count
<wxl> elopio-test: gimme a sec to wade through the spam XD
<elopio-test> no hurries.
<wxl> elopio-test: i count 6. i also see that bhavi and nhaines (and myself) also said they would be willing to step up. i'm not sure about them, but i really only want to step up if i'm needed.
<wxl> do you want me to msg the names i have?
<elopio-test> wxl: yes, please, to see if some of the ones I convinced forgot to apply.
<elopio-test> let me know if bhavi and nhaines need some more convincing to continue.
<wxl> elopio-test: the post says 5 open positions, which will replace the four of us (including bhavi and nhaines and myself) that are expiring. svij expires in january, but i take it he's pretty much not able to help too much right now, so having 6 isn't a bad thing
<elopio-test> wxl: yes, it seems we'll be able to do the voting without issues. Thank you!
<wxl> i'll try to get in touch with bhavi and nhaines
<elopio-test> I'll be away figuring out what's going on with matrix. I'm available on telegram if needed.
<elopio-test> and I'll make summaries/translations for the hub. See you later
<wxl> sounds good
<wxl> email me with the details and i'll make sure all the mailing lists get info on the video
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-10-15
<TheMuteTater> greetings
<jdstrand> hi joemcmanus :)
<mdeslaur> \o
<jdstrand> joemcmanus: can you respond to this message?
<sbeattie> hey joemcmanus
<chrisccoulson> hi joemcmanus
<jdstrand> there seems to be a problem somewhere
<chrisccoulson> ohhh
<jdstrand> either joemcmanus' client isn't communicating well, or mine
<mdeslaur> joemcmanus: welcome
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: I can see you
<jdstrand> mdeslaur: can you see me?
<jdstrand> ok
<teward> jdstrand: mdeslaur: +q $~a
<teward> they need ID'd or voice
<mdeslaur> jdstrand: when I close my eyes I can
<teward> joemcmanus: can you say something?
<teward> and one more time
<joemcmanus> Hello teward :)
<chrisccoulson> yay
<jdstrand> yay!
<teward> can you all see that now mdeslaur, jdstrand ?
<jdstrand> thanks you teward :)
<teward> that's a yes :P
<chrisccoulson> yes
<sbeattie> teward: thanks!
<joemcmanus> And there was much rejoicing !
<teward> joemcmanus: register your nick with Freenode after the meeting :)
<joemcmanus> thanks teward!
<jdstrand> hehe
<mdeslaur> teward: huh! magic!
<teward> sorry to interrupt the meeting :)
<mdeslaur> teward: thanks
<joemcmanus> Ok.
<teward> mdeslaur: yay for my watching a thousand IRC channels and tracking the spam :p
<teward> *lurks again*
<jdstrand> ah, yes, gotta register
<joemcmanus> Jokes later...
<jdstrand> joemcmanus: ok, *now* #startmeeting :)
<joemcmanus> #startmeeting
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 15 17:00:44 2018 UTC.  The chair is joemcmanus. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
<jdstrand> \o/
<joemcmanus>  * Announcements
<joemcmanus>   * SLC Sprint next week, Jamie & Joe out of office
<jdstrand> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/Meeting
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Announcements
<joemcmanus>  * Generalist role rotation
<joemcmanus>    * CVE Triage: leosilva, Bug Triage: ebarreto, Community: msalvatore, Happy Place: the rest :)
<joemcmanus>   * The Ubuntu Security Team is hiring!
<joemcmanus>    * Ubuntu Security engineer: https://boards.greenhouse.io/canonical/jobs/1158266?t=8c0a6c1f1
<jdstrand> joemcmanus: don't forget those ^
<jdstrand> :)
<mdeslaur> COME WORK FOR US!
<joemcmanus> Full automate, no I know, and knowing is half the battle.
<mdeslaur> (bring beer)
<jdstrand> joemcmanus: we don't have previous actions, so you can skip that one
<joemcmanus> What mdeslaur said.
<joemcmanus>  * Weekly stand-up report (each member discusses any pending and planned future work for the week)
<joemcmanus>   * jdstrand
<jdstrand> [TOPIC] Weekly stand-up report
<jdstrand> , ok, this week I plan to:
<jdstrand> - fixing a bug in snapd wrt system-key and calculating apparmor parser features
<jdstrand> - I've pushed several PRs for the kubernetes-support interface. Will respond to feedback/etc to get the in (at least) master
<jdstrand> - continue on brand store declarations
<jdstrand> - product roadmap sprint prep
<jdstrand> that's it from me. mdeslaur, you're up
<mdeslaur> I'm in the happy place this week
<mdeslaur> it's a short week for me, I'm off on friday
<mdeslaur> I'm currently working on net-snmp updates
<mdeslaur> and I have to figure out how to test the ppp updates that are rotting in the ppa
<mdeslaur> and after that, I'll be going down the list, as usual
<mdeslaur> that's about it, sbeattie, you're up
<sbeattie> I'm in the happy place this week
<sbeattie> I need to test and publish my fixup to bionic's imagemagick default policy exclusion file.
<sbeattie> I have kernel signoffs and some re-triage to do, as per usual
<sbeattie> I need to look at toolchain stuff for cosmic+1
<sbeattie> and I need to spend some time on apparmor stuff
<sbeattie> that's it for me, jjohansen, over to you.
<jjohansen> I need to finish the apparmor releases, which includes rolling out a 2.13.2 emergency release because initscripts are broken on suse and debian.
<jjohansen> I need to do more LSM stacking review and work on the ubuntu patchset
<jjohansen> I need to refresh and get an RFC out for the NS LSM hook patchset this week
<jjohansen> I have to finish up my LSS-EU presentation
<jjohansen> I need to work on some nnp changes so I can get back to Eric with them
<jjohansen> and of I run out of things todo (haha) I have the audit/prompting work and apparmor 3.0 userspace release to work on
<jjohansen> thats it for me sarnold you are up
<sarnold> I'm in the happy place this week; I'll start the week on the oath-toolkit mir, doing aa patch reviews as jj asks for them, and moving on down the MIR lane as there's time for it
<sarnold> I'd also like to file a few bug reports from the previous MIRs, but that's a lower priority
<sarnold> that's it for me, leosilva1?
<chrisccoulson> :O
<sarnold> oh no is it chrisccoulson instead? sorry..
<msalvatore> I think that happened last time, too
<chrisccoulson> heh
 * sarnold hangs head
<chrisccoulson> I'm just finishing up the thunderbird 60.2.1 publication, and then that's ready to hand over to the desktop team
<sarnold> chris has been here so much longer than me that it's hard to feel like he's "newer"
<chrisccoulson> (I might need to spend a small amount of time just getting bzr branches in order rather than dumping it all on olivier)
<chrisccoulson> there's a firefox release next week, so I'll check in with the desktop team to make sure everything's on track
<chrisccoulson> I also intend to finish the libssh2 MIR
<chrisccoulson> and then I should have time to take something else (either from the review lane or anything else that someone wants to offload)
<chrisccoulson> That's me done
<chrisccoulson> leosilva1 ?
<joemcmanus> come back to leosilva1 at the end, msalvatore please proceed
<msalvatore> I'm on community this week
<msalvatore> this morning I pushed out wireshark, version 2.6.1 for trusty, xenial, and bionic
<sarnold> \o/
<msalvatore> This week I'll be working an updated look and feel for the ubuntu cve tracker
<msalvatore> In additional, I'll work to resolve some universe CVEs
<msalvatore> ebarretto, you're up.
<ebarretto> I'm on bug triage this week:
<ebarretto> - I'm working on tomcat6 update (trusty and xenial)
<ebarretto> - If everything goes well with tomcat6, I will move to tomcat7
<ebarretto> - continue retriaging CVEs
<ebarretto> that's it for me ... leosilva ?
<leosilva> can you see me now?
<ebarretto> yes
<leosilva> gzz
<teward> thank you sarnold for the ping :)
<teward> *sits on op in case anyone else needs voiced*
<leosilva> I'm in the cve triage this week
<joemcmanus> teward saves the day again!
<leosilva> we'll have a python brasil event in my hometown and will take half+one day off to be there.
<leosilva> I finished requests update
<leosilva> ann I'm working on moin moin update.
<leosilva> Other than that I'll hunting cves/pkgs to update
<leosilva> that's all
<leosilva> joemcmanus: it's back to you
<joemcmanus> this week:
<joemcmanus>  - Plan for SLC
<joemcmanus>  - Web page update planning
<joemcmanus>  - 1:1 with team
<joemcmanus>  - Security role phone screens
<joemcmanus> That's it for me!
<joemcmanus> Any questions ?
<joemcmanus> Thanks all for being patient with our self inflicted IRC issues
<joemcmanus> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 15 17:18:54 2018 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2018/ubuntu-meeting.2018-10-15-17.00.moin.txt
<teward> just be glad someone was lurking who could help ;)
<teward> leosilva: joemcmanus: both of you will need to register your nicks with NickServ, and then set your IRC client(s) to auto identify as you every time
<teward> that way i don't have to voice you each meeting :p
<teward> see /msg nickserv help register
<leosilva> yah, I'm registered, freenode just hate me
<teward> heheh
<teward> indeed.
<joemcmanus> Doing it right now, thanks again teward!
<sbeattie> joemcmanus: thanks!
<leosilva> tks joemcmanus
<sarnold> thanks joemcmanus!
<jdstrand> thanks joemcmanus! :)
#ubuntu-meeting 2018-10-18
 * vorlon waves
<tdaitx> o/
<cyphermox> o/
<chiluk> o/
<chiluk> So... Community council.
<chiluk> ??
<wxl> yeah, we haven't been doing regular meetings here. and this is a particularly difficult time with 18.10 coming out any moment now.
<chiluk> Yeah.. I just think we should remove the calendar entry from the Ubuntu Calendar if that's the case.
<wxl> my hope is that we resolve that in the near future
<chiluk> So anyhow, in case there is any community council.  I was wondering if we'll have a booth at All Things Open..
<chiluk> afaik there is not one.
<wxl> there is a community council for sure
<wxl> however they aren't responsible for setting up such a booth
<wxl> like any other event, it ultimately takes an ubuntu member to take on the task of showing up and applying for community funds
<wxl> chiluk: is that something you want to take on? i can point you in the right direction
<chiluk> not this late in the cycle.
<chiluk> and I'm not well suited as a booth fairy.
<wxl> well if you know of another event, it's pretty easy
<wxl> then i would suggest you talk about it with other folks, perhaps your loco
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-10-14
<gsilvapt> Howdy. Should we start the LoCo Council meeting?
<gsilvapt> Meh, for some reason I thought this should start at 8pm :)
<gsilvapt> Timezones and me... argh
<nhaines> I made sure to use timeandate.com just in case.  :)
<nhaines> Which is good because I was wrong.
<gsilvapt> Yeas, my bad for not using that tool and be always on the wrong time :)
<nhaines> Well, I'm not sure I would've bothered if not for the handy link!
<kenvandine> hey
<gsilvapt> Right. So, how many of us are around? Letozaf_ is here, nhaines, gsilvapt, kenvandine and kyrofa ?
<nhaines> _o/
<gsilvapt> #startmeeting loco_council
<meetingology> Meeting started Mon Oct 14 20:04:12 2019 UTC.  The chair is gsilvapt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | loco_council Meeting | Current topic:
<gsilvapt> #chair gsilvapt
<meetingology> Current chairs: gsilvapt
<gsilvapt> #meetingbot topic AZLoco Revalidation:https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/Re-VerificationApplication2019
<gsilvapt> #meetingtopic AZLoco revalidation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/Re-VerificationApplication2019
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | AZLoco revalidation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/Re-VerificationApplication2019 Meeting | Current topic:
<kenvandine> Hello everyone
<gsilvapt> oopsie, I believe that was not the command I wanted :D
<Letozaf_> o/
<gsilvapt> #topic AZLoco Revalidation. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/Re-VerificationApplication2019
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | AZLoco revalidation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/Re-VerificationApplication2019 Meeting | Current topic: AZLoco Revalidation. https
<gsilvapt> Hello everyone. We are gathered today to take care of our good friends from the AZ LoCo. Anyone here to represent them?
<kenvandine> Seems they have been having regular meetings this year, I did a spot check of their mailing lists
<gsilvapt> Since we requested them, they seem to be taking a bit more care with their wikis and such
<kenvandine> yeah
<gsilvapt> Seems there is no one around here from their LoCo
<nhaines> It looks like they're reaching out to LUGs, and I know they're active there.  They help California out with SCALE most years.
<Letozaf_> It seems a very active team
<gsilvapt> Seems so, yes. They are improving a lot. Last time, if I recall correctly, we had some doubts about them but they seem on spot now
<nhaines> It looks like they solidly addressed the documentation issue we had.
<Letozaf_> they have put pictures here of the events: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArizonaTeam/TeamInstallfests
<kenvandine> i'm not seeing any of the people involved in the meeting
<nhaines> I wonder if they had a timezone misidentification.
<gsilvapt> If I also recall correctly, they didn't have anyone representing them as well last time :D
<kenvandine> i like what i'm seeing though
<nhaines> Well, I like what I see, anyway.
<nhaines> Usually we create a private bug on Launchpad to handle any questions offline, but I don't think I have any questions for them.
<kenvandine> i don't
<Letozaf_> they seem ok also for me
<kenvandine> shall we vote?
<gsilvapt> yes, lets vote then
<Letozaf_> yes
<nhaines> I vote we vote!
<kenvandine> lol
<kenvandine> +1
<gsilvapt> #vote revalidate AZ?
<meetingology> Please vote on: revalidate AZ?
<meetingology> Public votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (for private voting, private message me with 'vote +1/-1/+0 #channelname)
<Letozaf_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Letozaf_
<kenvandine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kenvandine
<nhaines> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhaines
<gsilvapt> Damn, forgot to add the attendees to the meeting -.-
<gsilvapt> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from gsilvapt
<gsilvapt> kyrofa, only you missing, I believe
<kenvandine> yeah, and i don't think he'll be here
<gsilvapt> #voters kenvandine nhaines kyrofa Letozaf_
<meetingology> Current voters: Letozaf_ kenvandine kyrofa nhaines
<gsilvapt> #voters gsilvapt
<meetingology> Current voters: Letozaf_ gsilvapt kenvandine kyrofa nhaines
<gsilvapt> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from gsilvapt
<gsilvapt> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from gsilvapt
<Letozaf_> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from Letozaf_
<nhaines> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from nhaines
<gsilvapt> Ok, seems to be fine
<kenvandine> +1
<meetingology> +1 received from kenvandine
<gsilvapt> The majority of the votes is +1 but I would still like to have his input on the record
<nhaines> Well, we do have a quorum, at least.
<gsilvapt> I'm giving a couple more moinutes to see if he gets around though
<gsilvapt> Well, there goes 5 minutes. perhaps he got stuck somewhere
<gsilvapt> I'm ending the vote so we can move on
<gsilvapt> #endvote
<meetingology> Voting ended on: revalidate AZ?
<meetingology> Votes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:0
<meetingology> Motion carried
<gsilvapt> #action clean loco wiki agenda
<meetingology> ACTION: clean loco wiki agenda
<gsilvapt> #action take care of AZ revalidation
<meetingology> ACTION: take care of AZ revalidation
<gsilvapt> Who wants to take care of which items?
<nhaines> I can revalidate AZ
<Letozaf_> I can clean the wiki
<gsilvapt> I should've created the items with your nicknames. Dumb me.
<gsilvapt> Thank you though
<gsilvapt> Is there anything else to discuss?
<nhaines> I don't think so.
<gsilvapt> Alrighty then, I'm ending this meeting.
<gsilvapt> thank you everyone for joining.
<gsilvapt> We will need to take care of replacements for some of us in the council, right?
<gsilvapt> Not sure if that should also be an action item or not
<nhaines> That's technically the job of the Community Council.
<Letozaf_> I have to leave now, eventually let me know about the replacements...
<Letozaf_> o/
<nhaines> Bye Letozaf_!
<gsilvapt> nhaines, how do we escalate the problem?
<Letozaf_> bye
<gsilvapt> Bye, Letozaf_
<gsilvapt> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Mon Oct 14 20:28:03 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-10-14-20.04.moin.txt
<nhaines> gsilvapt: we'll just email them.
<gsilvapt> Ok.sounds fair. Then we will take care of that in private.
<gsilvapt> I'm off now as well. See you, thanks for coming o/
<nhaines> _o/
#ubuntu-meeting 2019-10-15
<didrocks> I might be late/missing the MIR meeting, I have nothing special either way
<cpaelzer> hiho
<cpaelzer> pre-meeting ping for doko, cyphermox, jamespage, sarnold, joeubuntu, didrocks
<joeubuntu> hey cpaelzer !
<jamespage> o/
<jamespage> good afternoon/morning/evening/<insert your time of day here>
<cpaelzer> hmm nobody is starting this
<cpaelzer> cyphermox: doko: are you busy (not sure if you are in the release Team)
<joeubuntu> Libheif and Zsys are still in queue and being worked on if that helps.
<cpaelzer> like didrocks I'd have nothing special from my POV today
<cpaelzer> thanks joeubuntu
<cyphermox> cpaelzer: hey
<cpaelzer> It feels today things will be done in <5 min, but that doesn't have to be bad
<cpaelzer> lets get this started ...
<cpaelzer> #startmeeting Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status
<meetingology> Meeting started Tue Oct 15 13:07:15 2019 UTC.  The chair is cpaelzer. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
<meetingology> Available commands: action commands idea info link nick
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic:
<cpaelzer> we had no actions of last week AFAIK
<cpaelzer> therefore no review of those
<cpaelzer> also the NEW MIR queue is empty
<cpaelzer> we can skip that section as well
<cpaelzer> joeubuntu: already stated that "Libheif and Zsys are still in queue and being worked on if that helps."
<cpaelzer> which is great
<cpaelzer> that only leaves
<cpaelzer> #topic Incomplete bugs / questions
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Incomplete bugs / questions
<cpaelzer> #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/?field.searchtext=&orderby=-date_last_updated&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITH_RESPONSE&field.status%3Alist=INCOMPLETE_WITHOUT_RESPONSE&field.subscriber=ubuntu-mir
<cpaelzer> nothing new, last touch was abootimg whcih we talked about last week
<cpaelzer> whcih makes me think we can directly go to
<cpaelzer> #topic Any other business?
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice | Weekly Main Inclusion Requests status Meeting | Current topic: Any other business?
<cpaelzer> so, anything other than too many pressing release issues atm?
<cpaelzer> didrocks: and I stated already that we have nothing for this week
<cpaelzer> semes no one else either
<cpaelzer> 5 ... 4 ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... 1 ...1 ... arr bug
<cpaelzer> ok, who said this can't ever be quick and simple
<cpaelzer> thats it then for today I think
<cpaelzer> #endmeeting
* meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds: Please leave swords by the door | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | <wxl> be nice
<meetingology> Meeting ended Tue Oct 15 13:10:51 2019 UTC.
<meetingology> Minutes:        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2019/ubuntu-meeting.2019-10-15-13.07.moin.txt
<cpaelzer> fix some Eoan bugs everyone :-)
<joeubuntu> bye :)
<didrocks> was short and effective :)
