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in this so there is a I hate using that term there is a lot of uh I don't believe in method acting I don't okay because I feel like [Music] I mean you can't do that but there is a lot of thought conversations with the director with the actors about mainly the director and you know what is she where does she come from because what you're seeing is let's say three months of their life or that like a slice of life but what has built up to it to who she's become is what matters so even if you don't even if there is not a scene saying it you can sense it uh through the film and I feel um I don't want to be known as shefali did a good role I'd rather be recognized as the character okay I don't want shefali to be seen there so I feel and I'm I get obsessive with my script and the stories and and then it's just becoming her so what do you take you take the script and you you
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do you take you take the script and you you start living that person first I make 100 notes like it's a it's like oh God she asks so many questions on the on your script yeah so I make notes I make a lot of notes I have a lot of questions okay and then you just start I don't know it's a subconscious thing I guess it's not like there is a pattern to what I do because whatever I ask whatever I discuss whatever I write it may never come out it may not be tangible but it it shows in how this woman feels you know like a scene I believe is the is the last thing that comes into picture uh you know yes you do the scene right but what has led up to that scene even if you don't see it you can sense it yeah and you know um some of the films that you do uh like even the the shows uh the Ott shows like Delhi cram I'll be honest with you I didn't see the first season because I've I've
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I didn't see the first season because I've I've seen the whole episode I mean I've seen the actual thing that happened and we journalists who reported those uh things it was it was gut wrenching we didn't sleep for months we saw how it affected everybody it was too much so when when it actually came in I don't want to go through this catharsis again again it is it's too raw and then when the second season and then if of course everybody was like what how can you not see this so then it became okay fine and unwrap that thing let's go through it all over again and it's a gamut of emotions how did you go through this one and two like after one did you like I don't want to do do this again no on the contrary I love stepping back into varthika's shoes yeah it's my favorite character when I met Rishi Mehta for one it was actually a five minute briefing within five minutes I said yes and uh you know you all may
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I said yes and uh you know you all may be knowing that side of the story uh being journals but I didn't yeah like everyone else we were torn with what happened yeah and the one question which was constant was why is no one doing anything about this hmm when I read the script when Rishi narrated what the one line was I was like oh my god there was somebody doing something about this and it was a woman yeah and she cracked it you know so there was Injustice and then there was this woman who got Justice you met keep meeting chair I met chayamam once um over a coffee for like two three two three hours I spoke to her about it um and uh not just about the case but about her relationship with other people what are her thought processes etc etc and uh then uh every time I had a question I would text her you know that is this right also there is a protocol right when you are in in uniform when you're in a field like this but a
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uniform when you're in a field like this but a simple thing is when you take your cap off you know stuff like that so whenever there were questions okay I always reached out so that authenticity you wanted in your authenticity and also uh of course the blueprint of DC was Rock Solid and uh I remember Rishi telling me he said I don't want an actor I want a collaborator on this hmm whatever I could create is on paper but now I want you to make her your own person so yes it's not like I could imbibe Chaya ma'am I'm not good at it and you can't you can't encapsulate a person or pick it up no it's your character you have to make her her own person but her values uh I think their Universal values yeah you know the pain that we all felt the need for justice to cry for justice so did the director give you that scope to you to mold that the way you wanted it or was it a collaborative effort it's always a
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was it a collaborative effort it's always a collaborative effort and not just between the director and the actor I genuinely believe filmmaking is a collaborative effort between everyone like for example we are sitting and having a conversation but if this Dada uh you know the light flickers or the sound goes off it's not going to work yeah so it is a collaborative I mean anyone who believes the creative process is wow great good for you okay so let's go to Satya I'm as I told you I'm going to go one by one sure on my favorites so how did Satya come your way and that was like a cult uh you know and it's always been a cult whoever got with that film uh says that that was life-changing experience for them was is it for you to so um I remember uh Manoj and me were very close friends then and he was doing the film and he said you know uh ramusa would like to talk to you about this and I remember anurag
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talk to you about this and I remember anurag coming to me and he narrated what it was and I thought wow this is this would be really exciting and I was too young to understand the magnitude of it you know it was the first time I'd worked with an international dop the sound system the way the where you're just given a one line and said okay where do you want to go with this or the scene really this is the Crux of the scene but um knowing Marathi was a big Advantage etc etc so it it was a very enjoyable it was you know it was like almost like theater like where you all come together and you're contributing and you're working on things and there is no hierarchy or um dictatorship thank God I haven't worked with anyone touchwood who's been a dictator besides one but that's um but yeah I I wish today when I look back I feel wow I could have enjoyed it so much more but then on the other hand maybe I
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much more but then on the other hand maybe I wouldn't have enjoyed it more if I would have understood wow we're doing something really serious and life-altering but uh you said I've been lucky I have not worked with some people you've been very picky in who you want to work with and what you want to do otherwise you would have done 100 or 200 more films because you've been around since quite some time but you were picky you didn't just say but why why did you do that like was it because you wanted to have a certain path or it was like no this I can't uh I've never planned my career never I do what I I love what I do okay so if something hits me right here I will do it if it doesn't I won't do it doesn't matter Banner no because I won't be happy on the set and it won't be fair to me and it won't be fair to the makers so what's the purpose of it but it films came to you where you
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of it but it films came to you where you were playing mom to people who were older than you how did that touch you for everything you know that was uh which was a film uh based on a play and I'd seen the play and I loved the story and I loved her character and uh there was this um what do you say this temptation of working with two of my favorite men in the industry uh Mr bachan and vipul so I said I want to do this in fact vipul was the one who said do not do it yeah if for viewers living abroad vipul is my husband is shefali's husband and he's a noted film director so he said do not do it and then amitji uh suggested my name he said why don't you wash shefali and I was like see I'm telling you I want to do it and seriously you were to have somebody else to reduce it and uh that's how it happened okay yeah and of course you've spoken about it recently
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yeah and of course you've spoken about it recently also and I think twice I've seen that where you said that uh Amitabh Bachchan jokingly calls you Malkin ever since because you know you're married to the film producer uh no he thinks I he calls me Malkin because he thinks I'm bigger than the producer I'm the director on that set yeah he has a sense of humor which is very dry oh my God yeah he's amazing I love amiji okay so when you when you act with him I believe he's he's a stickler right he comes on time and he's uh he's there for those X number of hours and things work differently in a film set when Mr Button is around they work the way they're supposed to work okay I mean think of someone coming on time well that's unexpected yeah it's becoming delayed I mean I know it's it works the other way which is the norm which is not the right thing which is not I mean so amiji does everything that
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which is not I mean so amiji does everything that is required or he contributes to a film completely and not just coming on time I mean that's a basic but uh you know he treats you at Power he of course I was I mean I was completely like oh my God uh but he puts you at ease and when he's talking to you or when he's you know he is it's like your the only person he's talking to it's not a frivolous thing and of course he has a sense of humor and what an actor so it was like um anybody who's acted with him or with you know Hollywood grades like when I asked what was it like with Anthony Hopkins or Tom Cruise or something and they all say that they're phenomenal actors but they put the other person at ease and I guess that's why the magic comes out of that moment absolutely when you're acting you can see that the other person is not in awe and the other person doesn't look at you as
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awe and the other person doesn't look at you as Amitabh Bachchan absolutely looking at you as the character and they've become and that's where the chemistry comes in from also yeah so you didn't get scared look everybody knows being Typecast as a mom right saransh it was a movie which you know typified what father's grieving loss all that got all the dad rules so and then everybody thinks mom roll Matlab nirupa Roy and no offends to niropa Roy but that crushed cotton saree and yeah big VP eyes yeah so and you have lovely eyes so did you did you get at some point yeah I got a lot of offers of the same time and uh I just said I don't want to do it huh well remember actually huh I don't remember so when you say no it's no I'm not doing it yeah and I don't think they get offended at least earlier they wouldn't because I was a no big deal so they would feel like what do you mean no
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so they would feel like what do you mean no big deal because it's uh you know honestly Smitha in the last two years I've gotten the kind of recognition that I have uh in all this while people said one of the finest actors but it didn't translate into work why did that happen what do you think I mean you must have thought about it that why were their periods where six months to a year you didn't get a film when the earlier film was such a fabulous hit where everybody appreciates exactly because I played age at a very young age and once you do that that's that's what you carry for the rest of your life because even worked yeah so then and also until now um you know in the 70s 80s 70s in fact there were films which were women oriented and women at any age but then there was this whole patch where the woman was just the accessory to the film and uh it's changing now again where there are stories that are being told and the lead is
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are stories that are being told and the lead is not just 18 to 25. you know she's coming of age she is uh blossoming at any point of time so I think they didn't know what to do with me and it was very simple you know I remember reading an interview of rohiniha tangari long long ago and she said that she did the role of kasturba early in her life when she wasn't that old but that role began from young to old but still she was kasturba so every film producer she would approach and say I mean I've acted with Ben Kingsley For Heaven's Sake Richard Attenborough and you think I'm not good enough they're saying we can't have kasturba Romancing an actor so where Marathi films would take her Hindi film industry was just no cannot true but that the audience will not accept you as which I I think is unfair to undermine the intelligence or sensitivity of the audience but uh I think it was just that it didn't
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but uh I think it was just that it didn't fit into the box that was created according to the box office yeah also when a roll of film is so big it is difficult to break that it is I'm not questioning that uh you know I mean Gandhi is like it's wow yeah but to break the image of kasturba is one thing and to break the image of old is one thing over here I guess it was a combination of both so did you regret then at that time when you didn't get the films that you wanted or you saw somebody else getting and saying I could have etched this it this could have come my way no yeah I didn't because like I said I never planned my career I didn't even know I wanted to be an actor I had no clue let's go back now in time so childhood everything is Mumbai right everything is Mumbai born and bought up in Bombay okay and so this Bombay girl not having Bombay dreams how come uh I was uh
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having Bombay dreams how come uh I was uh ridiculously protected okay um my mom is a dog my dad was with RPI I had a very very protected uh childhood uh I didn't even have friends I mean to think of it uh and you know at that point and I was completely in sync with whatever my parents said I didn't really have a mind of my own it's unbelievable yeah you've turned out because I kind of I think I snapped once I went to college then I did all the stupid stuff and um I went to mitibai you stayed in Mumbai yeah all total Bombay girl yeah okay uh and then I actually just blossom uh no I did a lot of stupid stuff which you do when you're 16 17 18 when you suddenly have the freedom yeah and uh but over time I kind of you know I I wasn't becoming blase but I was just really becoming comfortable in what I thought so you get into Stage right yes and that has remained a first love
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Stage right yes and that has remained a first love I wouldn't say so no I know a lot of people say that and I love becoming characters so whether it's for stage or it's Ott or its films yeah but you keep going back to Stage it's not as if you want to give up on medium for the other you'll do everything together oh well I I did I started uh with theater and then there was a long because then I started doing television etc etc and then there was a long Gap and I did theater again like a couple of years ago I think it must be at least seven eight years ago I did a play which people produced and Chandra Khan Kulkarni had directed it and recently in fact people asked me that would you want to do a play and I you know it requires a lot of time commitment it does you really as compared to films uh yes because one is the rehearsals yes they may think and people might be getting through with uh 20
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think and people might be getting through with uh 20 days of rehearsals and five days of grand rehearsal I don't think I can do that okay I'll I'll need time and then once you've made that commitment like you know Gujarati theater we would do 35 shows a month that's a lot that's I mean you're just performing every day yeah uh of course when we did basitna sahab that people produced we were just doing Sunday to Sunday but I want to keep my option open that tomorrow if something comes up I can give that time yeah you know so I don't want to be unfair where I've committed to something and then I back out of it okay so you're comfortable in all these languages Gujarati Marathi Hindi English all of them and that's because uh Mumbai uh no so we have National integration in our family okay so my grandmother maternal grandmother was a maharashtrian she married a Gujarati so my grandfather was a Gujarati and Mom is a
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grandfather was a Gujarati and Mom is a Gujarati and my dad she married a Shetty [Music] not even a bit like just uh courtesy kind of content as much as my Tulu I can also speak just a bit just because of grandparents are you from Mangalore yes I am oh yes hello so that's how you know a little little yeah of just that much I can I think comprehend it and uh then so bad is a Shetty so I am and I can't speak the language but I can understand it completely huh so they can't about me and the children speak English I know that always happens right I don't know I think maybe it's the earlier Generations where we all spoke our grandparents language or at least understood to have a communication still with grandparents that was very important parents drilled it into you yeah that that was necessary slowly it changed where parents learned grandparents learned the language of the grandkids true and because English and Hindi so you know there's
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and because English and Hindi so you know there's no need to learn the third and fourth language but see how you know versatile you are because of this mixed parentage and grandparent age and I wish I could have learned more languages like I'm dying to do a South film or I'm dying to do a Bengali film it's amazing I need to learn the language in South India the what is coming out absolutely from there they are so creative and uh suddenly I'm noticing North Indians who used to laugh at South films now waking up to the fact that some really creative stuff is happening absolutely in in and you know you were talking about taking audiences for granted uh and how everybody's had to recalibrate and not take audiences for granted anymore and I think Ott films have done a lot about that absolutely right I agree with it yes uh it has started changing any which ways you know with the parched or a tumhari Sulu or a lipstick under my book
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tumhari Sulu or a lipstick under my book um all of this but otd kind of I mean I think some of the top shows are led by women and women of any age which is great so Nina Gupta in one of the interviews said that she had to actually go about asking people imagine like she also you know dates back quite some time as far as creative work is concerned about phenomenal films that she has done but it didn't come her way and this is why I'm saying that film actors filmmakers said oh she's she's good but in that way and she a person like her had to sit without getting work and now with badayo and the other films that are coming she's hot property and people are going to her asking her to act in those films with new stories new ways of telling stories it's wonderful what what one is seeing absolutely it's amazing yeah it's amazing see earlier what also used to happen like I said was that the woman was an accessory
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like I said was that the woman was an accessory she had a shelf life of 18 to 20 to 25. after that you know when when you got offered something uh if you asked what is the character Hiroki no I get it that's a relationship what is a character but today all these characters have become the leads they're the center of shows films you know so are you picky that way that um that you want a central role for all the woman characters that you do uh I am very picky period okay uh but I believe I love ensembles um whether you talk about a Satya or a monsoon wedding or a Delhi crime it's not just about this woman or about one person yeah they all contribute you know so uh I mean if there are four characters for example in Darlings yeah you know who are the center characters Central characters when you talk about a jalsa the film and uh yes it is a story of Maya and Roxanna but it's the story of the kids it's the story
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it's the story of the kids it's the story of the husbands the families etc etc so it becomes an ensemble cast talk to me about jalsa that's another film with two phenomenal actors come together and there's no at no point do you feel that one is trying to overshadow the other and they are so strong uh and so raw and so gut-wrenching that uh experience is in that film too so um one is Suresh triveni okay so when and I know this because one he's a very dear friend and two because I've heard his interviews uh is that he thinks of his actors and then says okay if I have X and Y now let me write something for them he made me comfortable and said I want you as rukhsana I want no one but you as ruksana and then there is somebody as benevolent and loving as Vidya and we both have a mutual admiration Club because uh why she's very giving really okay and it comes easily to her she's
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really okay and it comes easily to her she's very accepting she's very embracing she treats she's not a selfish person it's not just about her and she's very vocal about it you know like when we used to do interviews I was amazed I mean because she's so open about her admiration for me her love for me and I mean I wish everyone was like that yeah and that's not a pretense trust me she is like that I guess um expressing emotions is something that actors do so much on screen that off screen they probably don't uh want to or they are they're dried out is that possible I don't think that's a valid logic if that's why they're holding back because I can't imagine acting in real life I just have to be who I am yeah you know so what yes a film took everything out of me but it's over it's finished do you get out of the character like with a jiffy when the film is packed and it's over every character leaves something
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is packed and it's over every character leaves something with you and every character takes something out of you it's yeah so you can never really leave it behind it may not be tangible it may come back a couple of years later give me an example like I'm sure DC would have done that oh God DC I mean every time I like when we were doing two and you know DC one had become like whoa and uh that is a character that got me the maximum amount of appreciation and it put me into the spotlight to say so yeah and I was like how am I going to fill those shoes there is no way I will I mean it happened I don't know how I'm gonna do it and you trust me when I went back on set it was just like she's back that was just vartika there was nothing else there you know so and I'm sure somewhere I I may not be able to link oh this I'm thinking like this today a shefali because it's come from
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like this today a shefali because it's come from vatika I may never be able to and vice versa you know when I'm doing a character I feel oh this is exactly how I would feel but sometimes it may not be exactly how you feel you have to feel like the character like you're this um you're this cop who who's going to make a change and who's going to do something about it and then you see something wrong happening do you feel at that stage I know it's there's a dissonance that's a character you've played in real life you may think that oh this is not my job to do this unfortunately you feel at least I feel I wish I could do something about it I don't have the power I I don't know how to correct it and so it's not it's not that I don't care because it's not my job it's almost like I care but it's not my job you direct it uh the frustration of seeing something wrong and not being able to do anything
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seeing something wrong and not being able to do anything would that be directed when you do a job where you are shown to do it that that energy that you bring absolutely I felt um I had a sense of power because I could correct it somewhere and it only had to do with bharthika yeah you know but shefali doesn't have that power nothing's changed after DC yeah you know um these films come your way because everybody knows that um you you emote so much with so little not so little I don't mean it as a talent so little I know but the words that you use it's not you that you have these flowery dialogues you say little but you emote so much are you given like when they say okay shefali is playing this role let's reduce the content as well on the contrary I'm one of those few actors who goes on settings please because I'm terrible at lines and um I remember when we did juice and neeraj and me were having a conversation and he said
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and me were having a conversation and he said uh do you think she should say anything in the end and I said no just that her sitting down is a statement big enough I believe we have the privilege of a camera which catches the smallest of nuances uh don't use four words if you can say it into and if you can say it without any words don't use what you should be in journalism really why do you say that because that's what we editors are always telling are you know the Young Writers because in journalism schools it's you know flowery writing because creative writing so there's like you know so early in my career like this I shouldn't be talking you should be telling me but tell me I'm interested in knowing yeah so you know I the training was like that the Prime Minister shook hands with the visiting dignity When Vladimir put it that Mr Putin has come down and your shaking hands then why do you need to say true right give some other information to
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need to say true right give some other information to pad up to what so it's a visual medium your words are secondary to it agreed so don't describe what is already on being seen yeah true so uh so when I was when we were when I was like assisting the BBC reporter who I was just assisting at that time so when I was doing that and they were cutting out cutting out and I think you know and then I realized why he was cutting out and then you know when they voice it also you know that that because you know see how our training is like the Prime Minister today because you know that's how we heard it right all India radio used to that yeah yeah then that natural way of talking and then I used to think it wasn't like that true it was more conversational more and that is what is happening with Ott you know it's not like we interview uh uh forges who come and say breakfast you know but now with Ott it's so realistic
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you know but now with Ott it's so realistic absolutely you know when you come and you your hair is in a knot yeah where do you remember that film um where Rani Mukherjee is vacuuming with where she acted with Abhishek Bachchan no offense to the filmmakers or to Rani or whatever but that's how films used to be where you're vacuuming with that full makeup on and with your hair gorgeous and you're wearing a tube top and vacuuming and then come you Vidya and all that you know with tumhari Salu or whatever and you where you know Judah essay on top with one Dundee in your hair and zero makeup or at least a very natural look so that's why you guys have become Cults now where are you saying ha she's like us but it also has to do with the changing face of Cinema see I'm sure like for example exactly you know I don't remember the film that uh you're talking about of Rani and then if
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uh you're talking about of Rani and then if you remember Yuva huh you know that song between Rani and Abhishek yeah and it's so natural yeah so it it also has to do with the vision of the makeup yeah you know it's not like she chose to whatever but that that movie was by Karan johar and his movies have always Blockbusters but they're all beautiful which is great yeah they're an Escapist World which is great visually it is it's a treat yeah it's a treat I'm like I mean you know when I was young our travel used to be Mangalore or mahabaleshwar so when you're watching Chandni and all that you're like oh my God this is how Switzerland looks I mean it's a it's a dream world yeah and in a way yes that's what Cinema is yeah and everybody wanted to escape to that absolutely but now today it's like you said about journalism you know one is there is this world created but today we are also talking about
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this world created but today we are also talking about the realistic version of it yeah so when you decide to do these realistic Cinemas you don't want to do the escapism cinema I keep telling some of my directors give me an item number oh I cannot imagine you doing that but that'll be a blockbuster because how can she do this yeah no but um look it's not about what kind of Cinema it's about the sensibility of your director it's about the script for example uh you know we did this Anthology where there were four stories it was on Netflix and uh I did one of the stories uh which was produced by Karan which was directed by Kaio it was called ankahi and yeah he wanted me to look like a quintessential heroine I've never dressed up in like you know like he wanted me to look like that but the story was so real and so raw and the emotions between these two people they were real so there could be a person who dresses up well
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so there could be a person who dresses up well you know I know a lot of people who dress up well uh and at the same time I I know myself who doesn't like dressing up unless there is something but you get into this film industry at what point did you feel that message which was not falling into the Norms of the industry like I I played a mother very very early in my life that kind of finished my chances off okay finished there's no way in hell did you regret at some point of time shouldn't have done that no at that point of time shefali at the age she was at the time she was she thought it was right there's no point looking back and saying I find it a waste of time that's how you get with life too yeah so tell me when you um when you're done with these kind of roles and because most of them are emotionally draining and you can't probably just switch off so when you come home do you how do you how do you
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come home do you how do you how do you unwind what do you do like to uh to just leave that behind and be you know when I'm doing something I am very obsessed with it I love it so I'll come home I'll have a shower I remember when you were doing DC uh after I packed up in the car I would text the first ad and say give me my scenes for the give me the scenes that we're going to do tomorrow uh of course I'd refer to only my script like on set I say don't give me sights I don't want sites because I'll only refer to my script because it has all those notes Etc but I would come back shower I mean if I was in Bombay if I'm doing something else I come back I shower I have dinner with my family it's not like I won't have a conversation but then I go back into okay doesn't just it doesn't just mean the scenes I'm doing tomorrow it means where have I started to lead up
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tomorrow it means where have I started to lead up to this hmm you know so almost the entire script but it's not done sequentially you know no it's not no that's why you need to keep referring back and forth is that like is there a dissonance like you're doing something which is end and then you're doing something big no not uh if for me uh what I do is I you know like before exams used to make that little parchy just uh bullet points so in a film you can remember a two-hour film okay a film script when you're doing a show yeah like Delhi crime or human it's eight hours of film how do you remember it yeah but then I make bullet points after every episode it's done very scientifically I do it because I want to refer to the back of it okay you know where where did I leave it to come to this scene okay so yeah I mean that's it works for me so um the Prime Minister said that you know he told his uh his party
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said that you know he told his uh his party and he said that do not make these kind of lose comments on films and things like that now where that comes from is it comes from all the trolling that's happening with the Bombay film industry um and everything is now becoming something a controversial topic whether it's the color of a song it is the uh whether it's something is vulgar not vulgar sanskari not sanskari uh everything has to be politically correct some feel that this is because course correction was needed and some feel that this is the time that we are living in where everything comes under scrutiny what's your take I think everything you do comes under scrutiny uh course correction is needed but we live in a democratic country everyone has a right to express uh Cinema is supposed to be taking from society or giving back to society yes there may be certain things and any form of art you know there may be certain things that you don't agree with what you like
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things that you don't agree with what you like I may not like a book a painting but that doesn't make that piece of art terrible so what I can do is say I think I don't like it I don't like it but to say it is bad so it's terrible but it has a right to exist it but who decides it's terrible what I mean to say is that if I don't like it and I I think it's terrible so big deal don't watch it yeah yeah that way I mean it is exactly like this yeah you know because I may not like it but Others May love it yeah and you can't scrutinize and fight about everything you've got to pick your battles yeah I just feel we lose you know then the importance or the seriousness of actually raising a point goes down in the drain because you're picking points on everything yeah and it's also causing these Rifts uh in families among friends where you know you don't want to say something you don't want
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you don't want to say something you don't want to be associated with something that's what is happening where people are just especially those who are in the Limelight are scared of being misquoted or of being typified do you feel that among your colleagues and all that that media because we're scared I honestly am not very close to my colleagues okay I have very very few friends to say so in the industry uh I have been after DC we got into this whole promotion bit actually and then got into this promotion but I never knew what it was before that and uh I've seen many people talk you know and there are some I totally admire like I admire Vidya yeah because she's very vocal she is herself yes she's not making a point she's not trying to say Gathering she is just herself yeah but there is a niceness of her which comes across yeah it's the same with you I don't think you realize it but you are also come across as a very honest
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you are also come across as a very honest person who says what she believes in so you know I think then there is a mutual respect yeah you understand what I'm saying if I'm gonna sit on my high horse and make a statement because I have the privilege of camera to catch it then anyone's going to get offended and say you know then what let's give it back but if there is a genuinity and a niceness to what you're saying then people are going to be like point of view they're going to be more lenient I feel I just feel so and also like Vidya I've seen ranveer he is himself yeah he's just himself yeah a little over the top but that's his style but he is not pretending yeah he's genuinely like that yeah he is so warm he's so boisterous he's so expressive you know I remember meeting ranveer after we did and we met at an award function He Has Lifted Me Up On Stage that is ranveer he
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Me Up On Stage that is ranveer he didn't do it for effect you know that is who he is and then there are somebody is there are people who can be extremely measured which is also what I respect yeah you know like there are times when I'm going to go for an interview uh and of course my husband's given up on me on that one but he says please you know and I have like a lot of times he's a very private person he's he's a very um sorted he's from the brain I'm from the heart you know he's sorted he's calmed he evaluates it's he's very uh that kind of a measured person I am like but I've also understood like and move on and move on it's really move on yeah and uh but I I had an experience when I said something and it was taken out of context and it hurt people at home oh you know where I felt fine I feel like this it was taken out of context and it's going to hurt people
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out of context and it's going to hurt people I'm not going to do this I have to be conscious to not do it yeah you know I can explain to my children they'll understand Mom said it's no big deal but I can't expect my parents or my in-laws or the elders in my family to go with this stride it's not fair yeah yeah and so tell me does uh you know does criticism trolling does it hurt because you know we we journalists get it too and I've interviewed several journalists and um they said that yeah was it fun to be trolled no to to interview yeah somebody from the same field that is so cool it is and usually it never used to happen no journalist didn't interview journalists yeah right because um I'm still I I mean actually if I think of it I I don't remember no it never used to happen so now and they even if it happened it was regarding an incident what do you have to say about uh like I said
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do you have to say about uh like I said Putin visit or right Boris or whatever you know like Obama visits what do you have to say about this Riot or that Riot and you know it was like that but here we were talking about our lives and uh discussing things which like we cover an incident we forget about the incident and then we move to the next incident we criticized by people that you're not there's no consistency you forgot that you know whether it was the upahar cinema right so many times she calls me up and she said you are one of the few who continued to report on that but you've done this wrong so correct it you know and then I correct it what time it was yeah the family calls me up and we do that and it that has gone back almost what 28 years or something like that so if we were talking to each other many of us like get trolled and because everybody says have a thick skin is it possible it's not possible Right it
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skin is it possible it's not possible Right it hurts um well honestly I have to I have I feel blessed because I get a lot of love appreciation and respect yes there are going to be people who don't like you but then TK um yeah I mean you don't like me fair enough it's your choice also when people who matter to me have a point of view I will take it seriously but if I'm going to sit and take every single person's point of view and debate it then I'm silly I'm wasting my time and energy and I cut like you know we discussed earlier art is very subjective yeah what you may like I may not and you're absolutely entitled to your opinion I can't let it like put me to sleep when we criticize you for a role or they criticize the way you you essayed it or they the the look that you had your your short your tall your thin your fat you all those things though they don't hurt you when those
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those things though they don't hurt you when those come out um very rarely I get it so I'm blessed but uh finally I have to fall back on my director and my vision that is where the film started that is where it ended if my director is happy with what I did the way I looked the way I did a scene or said a line or didn't say a line then I've done my job yeah because it's his story it's our story you're entitled to what you feel about it you don't like it fair enough because actresses are subjected women actors are subjected to a whole lot of how you look I mean Vidya Balan said this I think it was Vidya Balan who said this also that when she put on uh wait for that uh one role that she did and after that it was always this that oh my God look at the way she looks she's overweight and look at the way she dresses nothing that she would do if she would wear anything other than a
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would do if she would wear anything other than a sari she came in for a lot of reflex yeah yeah right so it's the the amount of energy expended on how a woman looks uh continues to dog women actors I agree also it's the pressure you know of what is beautiful and that's been going on for a hundred years I mean supermodels are anorexic yeah now we're talking about you know uh beautifully endowed women as models otherwise it was always thin tall Fair straight hair now everyone can't be genetically blessed you know I'm not and not even tall I'm told that there were some actresses who were made to you know stand at a lower level while Romancing the hero who is made to stand on a pedestal because the heroes were not as tall are you serious yes so it's funny so the shot would be the kind I've seen it also in fact where the shot would be and I found it ridiculous that's very funny yeah it's just but it's so amazing that
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yeah it's just but it's so amazing that how how difficult is it to accept forget about wearing elevator shoes imagine shooting in a particular manner where the woman looks taller and she is yeah if women are subjected to so much of scrutiny imagine the man's self-worth that he's yeah and did this image of what is Right visually the man is taller than the woman yeah you know but the beautiful woman minus the man is tall and like you said even men are put through that scrutiny yeah oh you're not Beyond five seven yeah you know so it's all the time and it should have moved after the 70s it should have oh no 90s kind of highlighted it no yeah everything was beautiful yeah yeah everything was beautiful the man was he didn't cry he fought he saved the woman uh she was the one who needed this damn cell in distress she needed rescuing yeah he took care of the family he took care of um is that kind of a film was to come to you
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that kind of a film was to come to you you'd say no immediately uh where I had to do nothing yeah besides look pretty yeah because what did I go there and do look pretty but that is my hair makeup styling uh doing so that's why it didn't come and what is pretty huh you know what is pretty Vidya looked like hers like that character in dirty picture yeah I've done a film called once again you know which is and I think Tara is beautiful yeah she's not wearing makeup she's wearing crumpled cotton sarees she has her hair tied in a Judah but that's who the character is and she's beautiful in her place I mean if you ask me to pick between Tara and Nila Mera I would pick Tara any day but maybe it's also because I am like that yeah you know for me dressing up is a huge effort it's a huge effort okay and recently with the promotions and all that so it was like a culture shock for me
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that so it was like a culture shock for me I was like earlier I have I wear jeans and shirt that's it and earlier though I used to have a uniform I would wear jeans white shirt or white that was the end of the story some people have started calling me a style Diva and I laugh the loudest but if you see me otherwise I'm in pajamas and tone t-shirts I'm in kaftans at home and that I'm very comfortable I'm not trying to make a point here yeah I'm very comfortable but I cannot deny what my team has bought to the table okay you know when they look earlier they would never think of me as Glam huh but now they do so now when uh we trying to end the conversation I still want to ask you about the other thing which uh is talked about a lot because you are you've come from totally an outsider you're not you're not somebody who is Born Into the industry uh you're acting with a whole bunch of people
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uh you're acting with a whole bunch of people uh you know who whose dad uncle aunt everybody has been in the industry and this accusation of nepo kids um it's real I think it's not fair but we never talk about that there are a lot of families whether a doctors in generations and their child has chosen to be a doctor we don't talk about that you know uh my skin doctor for example it was always the senior dog and then his kids are also following the same uh specialty so now they're a part of that clinic and they all together work we never pick that up um it's one of my charger has a bookstore which has gone down into the family we never talk about that now how well it does depends on the person who's taking over it the same goes for work if my son today wants to be an actor and I have the ability to give him that platform why won't I but then after the first second film he's gonna have to do it on
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second film he's gonna have to do it on himself yeah and how good he is so I think it's really unfair um yeah I I get what you're saying uh but what about the accusation that this there's a clique which will not allow a non-connected I I don't like the word term nepo kid but a non-connected person to rise that they will ensure that uski picture [Music] release now see that is a whole business politically political business strategy manipulation all of that and yes there are people I mean I'm not justifying it yeah I'm not justifying it I believe you have no right to put anyone down I have no right to put anyone down on this set right now I do not they are doing their job it is at par at equal I mean honestly if if anyone messed up this won't be as sure you know as smooth and fairly important absolutely so I do not agree in putting anyone down give them that new chance yes but then there are a lot
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that new chance yes but then there are a lot of directors who do not come from this industry who who are Outsiders but they have their actors again who've come from outside and say you know we have a comfortable zone of working yeah and they'll yeah so does that mean that is a click yeah but again yes there is a click you work very early in your career with Manoj bashpai and all who were total Outsiders like you you know and not even from the city they came from Bihar and you know from uttar Pradesh and places like that you worked with them so was there a kinship among you guys that we are The Outsiders I never thought of it like that okay there was a kinship okay and you have that with all you all those who you work with absolutely if you can't have fun on a set okay what's the point I'd be miserable if I went to a set where there was negativity or there wasn't camaraderie and his job is it to bring that
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camaraderie and his job is it to bring that about is it actors or is it the director every individuals purely okay and everyone is a part of it okay everyone of the entire filmmaking process absolutely absolutely and do you pick only those kind of places where that comfort factor is there because if it's if it's not that's not your work Zone but you know you don't figure it yes that is what I would choose and I've been lucky but if you have worked with let's say a newcomer or you haven't worked with a director or an actor How will I know unless I'm there yeah and then it's just like okay nobody's ruled about Themis Nobody Does that uh okay we are not best friends but take care okay as far as we're gelling as far as we have chemistry as characters as far as we can communicate and as far as we all come from the same thinking that filmmaking is a much bigger thing than just yourself then we're on the same page okay last question
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then we're on the same page okay last question I have to ask you this that uh mental health it's my favorite question with everybody who's in the creative field that to keep yourself mentally healthy uh how important is it for you as a creative person and uh what would you say to youngsters getting into this high stress uh and I say high stress simply because your output has to be quite a bit out here and it has to be creative so what do you what would you recommend to youngsters uh unfortunately it's not just for Creative people but for everybody it probably comes into the Highlight because we are in Limelight uh it is as important or probably more than your physical health no as important uh asking for help acknowledging that there is a problem or something as simple as problem hair and I can't handle this on my own so asking for help and I mean professional help you know I'm hoping that at least today we're moving away from the fact that we it was looked down upon yeah it was silly
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it was looked down upon yeah it was silly it's absolutely silly I mean if you have a skin allergy you go to a dermat right yeah so if you have something you can't sort out in your head then it's only fine to go to somebody who you trust who you respect who makes sense and it's extremely important and not running a person down when they're talking about a problem yeah if somebody is saying you know I'm feeling really low just have a coffee have a piece of chocolate let's go out for dinner it might help yeah for all you know that is the solution but if it's consistent then you need to acknowledge okay listen there is somebody is reaching out yeah the moment you rubbish it then you've put a wall against that person so that person can't even reach out yeah and to believe do you think it's time that people like you uh Vidya Balan and Nina Gupta and the others who have faced um who have faced that Autumn at times
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faced um who have faced that Autumn at times of not getting films uh or I won't use the word rejection because that's that's harsh but rejection also would you Mentor younger uh it's is it time to Mentor younger girls or younger men also uh to explain that rejection is a part and parcel of the creative process uh I don't think there is a guidebook to life I can say it but I can say it today with age and experience what 16 or 20 year old will feel will feel and I can give all the Gyan in the world but until that person realizes it on his or her own it's not going to ring through but you know there is the fact that I am here today you know when people call me an inspiration I don't know what they're inspired about but I think it's a belief okay some years ago if you saw a 45 if you thought a 45 plus year old woman was going to come into her peak in her career and start leading it would
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her peak in her career and start leading it would be it would have been laughed upon but she's doing it you know over there is doing it on energy is doing it and there are so many actors who are doing it so many actors and actresses so it's it is reassuring it is reassuring and you know recently um one of my nieces uh she's a 20-something kid and I got nominated in best actress for one of the big award functions of one of big Awards and um and there are all the top a-listers in that and I got nominated for best actress for Darlings and she said do you know what this means to so many girls that you got put into otherwise it would have been supporting actors supporting yeah but just the fact that they have no option but to recognize you it means so much that you don't have to be conventionally beautiful you don't necessarily only have to be young you don't have to do what is expected of you all the time you can make
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is expected of you all the time you can make your own you can be your own person and you can create a space for yourself and there is ample space for a lot of people yeah so just by living the life that you have led becomes uh somewhat of uh an inspiration and uh understanding that it's not the end of the world if you don't get a film or if an actor is not marrying you the reason I'm saying that is because of the suicides that one is hearing and it's heartbreaking to see young girls uh you know their lives just ending in their 20s just because yeah that pressure and that's why I'm saying that mental health and taking care of it and talking to people is extremely important extremely we have not given it enough due even as parents one needs to read absolutely that just because your kids are laughing around and absolutely yeah absolutely I mean I I believed everything was fine and there was a patch that I couldn't handle it you know I was
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patch that I couldn't handle it you know I was just realizing that I was becoming a bitter person I was not uppity Etc there were a lot of changes happening around me and I chose to see someone and I still see the same person because what I would do earlier is if I'm feeling down I'll go and see somebody yeah today I go and meet him because everything is good in the world and you can I just came to say hello to you you know which is great and when he started treating me he said it very clearly I don't want you to be dependent on me yeah I cannot change your thinking I can just be a sounding board to you you have to reach that point and your family is supportive when you do this like well honestly even if they want they didn't have an option I love that but I have that space yeah I have that luxury of space to decide what I am doing not a lot of people have it yeah and I really wish we created
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people have it yeah and I really wish we created that environment where it's okay to not be okay yeah oh my God yes yes thank you so much for speaking your mind speaking so clearly and being such an inspiration to young actors wishing you all the success thank you you too absolutely my pleasure thank you for watching or listening in to this edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash do like or subscribe on whichever Channel you have seen this or heard this namaste click here to watch the previous episodes foreign [Music]
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it's really important to put the South China Sea in that Global context it is if you like everyone's business it's so vital to International connectivity to Maritime trade countries both from Southeast Asia as well as China would like to push for intensifying the code of conduct negotiations however we've heard that before most recently in 2020 and nothing has come of that in 1990s when the U.S visible from Philippines they take the mysterious if you develop an economic dependence on China then you're in trouble uh in the long run whether that's Australia or whether that's countries elsewhere in the world China's narrative that it is the United States and its warships or other Naval powers that are destabilizing the region those are us keeping helping to keep keep the South China Sea um open Japan possess the Counter-Strike capability and India possessive storage capability China cannot ignore other two sides at the same time foreign welcome to another edition of ani podcast with Smitha prakash this is a special edition which is being recorded at
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this is a special edition which is being recorded at the rice Cena dialogue held in March 2023 in New Delhi our topic today is about an issue that could turn into a global flash point the South China Sea Quagmire principles or compromise China is in conflict with its Maritime neighbors and there is an impasse which can negatively impact all of Asia before I introduce the guests here's a short explainer the South China Sea is one of the busiest waterways it has several small islands and the disputes are over the claims made by China Philippines Malaysia Vietnam Taiwan and Brunei over these waterways that date back almost 70 years the disputes have affected Maritime trade as well as bilateral relations between these two countries the U.S is also involved in this dispute as it has Maritime security interests in this region what is India's interest in this dispute were where 55 percent of India's trade passes through the Straits of Malacca which opens into the South China Sea over to the experts we
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into the South China Sea over to the experts we have today Dr Lynn Quark Shangri-La dialogue senior fellow for Asia Pacific security at The International Institute for strategic studies Singapore she's got a stellar academic career Lynn Quark is a visiting professor at Georgetown University School of Foreign Service and has held fellowships at Yale law school Harvard Law School Harvard Kennedy School and nus Singapore Dr satoru nagao non-resident fellow at the Hudson Institute USA satoru nagao has held numerous research positions in diplomatic and political field he's also been a security Analyst at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs Professor Rory Metcalf professor and head of National Security College Anu Australia he has three decades of experience across diplomacy and intelligence analysis Academia and journalism he's a serving board member member of the national foundation for australia-china relations at the Anu cyber Institute and an Australian representative on the asean regional Forum register of experts and eminent persons Dr Kwok I'll
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of experts and eminent persons Dr Kwok I'll begin with you is it possible for China to break the current impasse in the South China dispute the covet years have not seen China showing any signs of accommodation so do you think that this impasse can stop now well I'm thank you first of all for having me on this show um on your question I'm not entirely confident in fact I'm not confident at all that the impasse can be broken there's been recent talks about how countries both from Southeast Asia as well as China would like to push for intensifying the code of conduct negotiations however we've heard that before most recently in 2020 and nothing has come of that and of course if you have to if we think about it these code of conduct negotiations have been in the making for some two decades now with very little to show for um I think there are several things that stand in the way of concluding a meaningful code of conduct which will help to if not break
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code of conduct which will help to if not break the impulse but at least to reduce the impulse you know things like the scope of application of the code of conduct um you know whether it should apply to the entirety of the South China Sea is China with one so only in areas of dispute um you know the sort of dispute resolution mechanism whether it should merely be bilateral negotiations with China or parties would have um ability to have course to the mandatory dispute resolution mechanisms and the United the United Nations convention and the law of the sea so there are these stumbling blocks to concluding a meaningful code of conduct that said I think China has every reason to seek to help to reduce tensions um with its neighbors not given that its composition with the United States is fast heating up so I think it makes sense if I were China I would be seeking to reduce tensions with my neighbors especially since those tensions have allowed the United States to forge stronger ties with even erstwell with countries
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to forge stronger ties with even erstwell with countries like Vietnam with whom it for two decades worth of a war so um I I think you know if China were thinking strategically about its position in the region it would certainly be seeking to break this impasse and stronger ties with its neighbors and even recharge relationships which had you know stagnated like say maybe with Philippines I'm going going to come to you uh Dr nagao you've studied and written about the role of quad and the closed ties between India and Japan um with regards especially to expansionist China why is there no coordinated strategy among Asian countries to resolve the South China dispute to discharge China's territory expansions we need to check the pattern of China's territory expansion there are three features firstly they ignore the international rule for example what happened in East China Sea is the example before the 1970s they haven't claimed uh island of Japan is their territory so since 1971 they realized how important and they start to say
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they realized how important and they start to say they said claimed this is a territory but this is ridiculous view from the international law and secondary is when they find the power vacuum they try to steal it so for example what happened in South Genesis is the 1950s when France visual from this region they take the hakos para Sera Iran in 1970s when U.S research another half of the parasail island taken by China and in 80s it went Soviet troops withdraw from Vietnam the they take the sixth speech of the spiritually around in 1990s when the U.S withdraw from Philippines they take the Mischief leave so they are safe they when they find the power vacuum the spirit military balance has changed the spirit that is a pattern and the sad pattern is their effort is including economic effort to other aspect not only the military that is another effort so be a real right one example so to deter China stereo expansion on how to do that and yesterday their budget is increasing
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to do that and yesterday their budget is increasing very high so to maintain military bonds we should increase self-defense budget that's true but China is Rich not easy so that's why another method is needed that's why quad that we can point it out to the China's expansion in South Tennessee if the class before country corporate China need to divide their budget the maruti direction against Japan against India against the Southeast Asian countries because corporations Support Services a countries by using the cloud framework and so that's why to maintain military balance built from the budget this Corporation is effective so China cannot move even in the South China seeks we cooperate enough that's why kuat in the South China Sea issue is combined long explanation thank you very much okay so that's kind of revolutionary or should I say that would make China more uh wary or even Russia more wary about you know have the quad getting military connotations uh Professor Metcalf I come to you you know Australia is seen as a kind of a middle
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know Australia is seen as a kind of a middle power in uh and an ally of the US which has interests in South China see can it risk a conflict with China and um will it engage more for conflict resolution now uh especially with the quad as uh you know was said that the court has strategic interests now so will it become more uh involved in conflict resolution solution Luke thank you uh and I think that Australia's role like so many other powers in the world is one of a stakeholder in the security and stability of the South China Sea I think it's really important to put the South China Sea in that Global context it is if you like everyone's business it's so vital to International connectivity to Maritime trade Global Commons fisheries and also as a a laboratory if you like as to whether multiple Nations can resolve essentially territorial differences and I will come back to answer about Australia but just to note that um you know there are some there are some green shoots some positive signs
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some there are some green shoots some positive signs look at Indonesia and Vietnam for example essentially agreeing uh on the demarcation of their EU said boundaries recently so there are law-based solutions if players and of course the big player being China were ever willing to actually count Nance where Australia comes into the picture is you're right as a stakeholder as an ally of the United States but also as an independent power in the indo-pacific and I guess I believe our government's trying to do multiple things here on the one hand you know we're asserting our rights as uh if you like a power that that um relies on the South China Sea for our own economy so rights of overflight Transit freedom of navigation are of great interest to Australia even if we're not doing traditional you know or conventional funnels but our air force does Maritime surveillance there as we've done for 30 or 40 years and we are interested in a strategic balance an equilibrium in the region uh where China can't be
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equilibrium in the region uh where China can't be coercive or assertive at the expense of others but we're also interested in preventing escalation and I think that I I wouldn't necessarily call it conflict resolution because we're a long long way from that but Australia like so many other powers now has an interest in ensuring that on the one hand uh aggressive action is deterred but that in doing that we're not further destabilizing the situation so therefore there's a lot of talk now of guard rails of confidence building measures of risk reduction measures the code of conduct may not be the solution there because as we've heard it's moved at a glacial pace and and China has almost sought to weaponize those negotiations in ways that exclude legitimate Global stakeholders in the South China Sea from actually being in the South China Sea but there is I think A Renewed interest now in using for example Regional fora Regional groupings to set some standards to reduce the risks of conflict and escalation there and
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reduce the risks of conflict and escalation there and that's something that I would encourage India for example to take a closer interest in um it's particularly irked of that Australia about August and uh it sees that it's born out of a cold war mentality uh some of the politicians are even making veiled threats uh against Australia um what is the perception in Australia is China viewed as a threatening power at all or does trades surmount everything else there are so many answers to that question there's so many questions embedded there um because I think the the long story of the australia-china relationship just as China's relations with many other powers over the past decade has been that uh you can't separate the economics and the security of the economics and the strategy if you develop an economic dependence on China then you're in trouble uh in the long run whether that's Australia or whether that's countries elsewhere in the world uh you mentioned the um the technology sharing Arrangement that's been uh labeled orcas but
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sharing Arrangement that's been uh labeled orcas but that's really just one piece of a much larger Regional puzzle of balance so orcas is essentially Australia working with two very trusted Partners to build uh Stronger capabilities so that a stronger Australia can be a stronger partner to others in the region the fact that we're now considering building uh the kinds of submarines that China already has all over the South China Sea so don't forget that in a sense Australia like others you know whether it's India or Japan or others it's literally trying to catch up and balance and protect our interests of course that's lurking China because it's it's reinforcing the realization in Beijing that it can't dominate the region so it's going to play a very aggressive campaign of disinformation to suggest that somehow those reacting to China's military modernization are the destabilizers whereas the truth is precisely the other way around and to conclude on that point where the current Australian government is going I think is a relationship of
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Australian government is going I think is a relationship of stabilizing ties with China but not walking back on any of the national security measures we've taken to protect our interests as a sovereign power and that includes developing uh substantial Naval capabilities such as through orcas uh Lynn I'm going to come back to you you're in you know um you're based in Singapore so not technically so close to the South China Sea problem but you know you've been watching the the whole quad uh fracas which happened here in New Delhi uh the foreign ministers meeting uh apparently the South China Sea did come up for discussion and the statement is indicative that the members kept reiterating that quad is not a military Alliance but Russia doesn't believe in that China of course will not believe that um and there are strong overtones about China you know the whole thing that they're saying we strongly support I'm quoting we strongly support the principles of Freedom rule of law sovereignty territorial Integrity peaceful settlement of
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law sovereignty territorial Integrity peaceful settlement of disputes without resorting to a threat or use of force freedom of navigation overflight oppose any unilateral attempt to change the status quo all of which are essential to the peace stability prosperity of the indo-pacific region and Beyond these are all uh veiled uh you know may not be threats but signaling to China isn't it yes I think the short answer to your question is yes um I think there are implicit availed criticisms of China's behavior in the South China Sea in that statement um you know you you mentioned um the quad earlier and how it's perceived in the region I think the first point to note is that whereas when we first start um in the when the indo-pacific concept or strategy first emerged you know a few years ago countries in Southeast Asia were very hesitant to kind of go on board with that concept because they're worried about what China might think what it might mean for asean ETC um come the quad when that came
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asean ETC um come the quad when that came along I think you saw countries um in a sense being more accepting of alternative I guess Frameworks or architectures or overlapping architectures for helping to manage disputes in the region or you know the balance the power in the region so for instance Singapore it said that the quad was to be welcomed if it if it brought greater peace and stability to the region and if it you know complemented asean's role in the region as well um and you had the Philippines foreign minister then um who talked about the quad um being welcomed because you know frankly um asean didn't didn't seem able of on its own managing the Region's problems and the Region's problems are many um it's it's China's behavior in the South China Sea the sort of um you know objections to valid assertions of Rights navigational rights and freedoms um that you highlighted in the statement it's you know the implicit threat or use of force to resolve those disputes um
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or use of force to resolve those disputes um and it's it's encroachments upon the exclusive economic zones of various Coastal states in the South surrounding the South China Sea which really is the bread and butter or the fish and oil and gas which helps sustain the livelihoods of in many case is very poor Southeast Asian countries so so yes those statements uh that statement was in fact a veiled criticism of China's Behavior but um I think going beyond that I think we also need to think a little bit about how you know other countries might be contributing to instability in the region I I don't buy China's narrative that it is the United States and its warships or other Naval powers that are destabilizing the region by its warships I think those are us keeping helping to keep keep the South China Sea um open um by asserting lawful navigational rights and freedoms but I think there are certain acts that perhaps could be avoided you know like painting the current um geopolitical
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you know like painting the current um geopolitical competition between the United States and China as having an ideological basis I don't think that necessarily helps improve the situation because it introduces more problems into the a ready mounting list of problems that the United States and China already face speaking of Warships like why has the U.S Navy sent Nimitz um it's one of the oldest nuclear part uh ships what combat value can it bring you know I think the us as well as other Naval Powers France um for instance or even other European Towers Australia Etc I mean they sent um various Naval vessels into the region perhaps sometimes to demonstrate um strength and resolve but also there's a symbolic value to these various um uh deployments I think it's very important um that the us as well as others sent Naval vessels to the region to highlight that they are merely asserting lawful rights and that are vested under the United Nations convention and the law of the sea when they apply the
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and the law of the sea when they apply the um the the Waters of the South China Sea and um I think you know we shouldn't always be thinking about military might and and what you know a specific asset brings to the table in terms of military might we must also think about what it means the Optics but symbolically so when Europe or the middle Powers sent vessels to the region to support or promote the rules-based order I think that sends a strong message it sends the message that it isn't just about you as China competition what's at stake here isn't you know U.S China competition and the U.S seeking to dominate the region over China but it's also about just you know we're concerned about the rules-based order we're concerned about what happens in the region we're concerned that you know if there are disputes that's fine but let's have the disputes um resolved or managed in accordance to international law the guardrails that um before we mentioned earlier right
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the guardrails that um before we mentioned earlier right uh Dr nagar I'm going to come to you um the Philippines is in talks to possibly include Australia and Japan um in Sea patrols with the US so one question on that and the second question is that you know the countries in the immediate vicinity of China they face similar kind of threat but I'm gonna I asked you this even in the beginning why is there no coordinated system to deal like a coordinated security system you talked about increasing military budgets but there needs to be more than that to secure these regions don't you feel coaster coordination is best but all these countries are so voluntary country independent country so they have their attitudes they have their strategy so coordination is a very tough job in this case of course United should show the leadership in this region for a long time haven't spoke system is a main system to maintain the balance haban spoke means that United States is Central and based on the bilateral Alliance and
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is Central and based on the bilateral Alliance and between the U.S and Japan U.S and Australia U.S and the Philippine bilateral basis Alliance consists the whole security system in this case all of the information gets at the United States but Japan Philippines do not share the information Japan also really do not share the information even if they arrived of the United States so so in this case if the coordination moved we should establish in this case U.S lead or of the activity but United States need to deal with many issues in the world now so in this case they need to deal with Russia ukrana or they need to deal with the Middle East so the under such kind of situations United States asked to arise should share more security but in this region and Japan tried to reply Philippine tried to reply it so coordination has just started so under such situations this coordination has is improving but under process not established like a NATO because they have the wrong history but we do not have the wrong
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the wrong history but we do not have the wrong history in this region in the indo-pacific that's why that coordination hasn't happened but improving that is my answer to your question I think right do you think that there is a hesitation in that that we don't want to become a NATO uh NATO because you can compare as a geographical area the nature of the European in America based Maps Europe is very so it is more easy to coordinate but in the Pacific very very big so in this case in this case the coordination is a very very big tough job so of course if we can establish this Asian NATO it will be a very effective way to deter China that's true China has uh China's era is only one North Korea the 3D base arrives on North Korea and Russia and the Pakistan they will be the partner but not United United States side 52 arise evenings will only count 30 pesos right and so coordination itself is very difficult but achieves some part of it not China
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difficult but achieves some part of it not China the United States has achieved and this number of the coordination is decisive factor in the last three competition in the past the World War One the 32 buses four decided to win and World War II the 54 passes 54 wing and the cold war between US and Soviet in 54 wing and the 26 rules so in this case this number is very big important so that's why you are right the coordination of the many country is very important but because of this many countries it is not easy to active that's what happens so Rory I'm going to come back to you uh you know is this this Hub and spoke and bilateral uh security uh uh mechanisms uh will that work or is there possibility of a new indo-pacific security initiative coming up in the near future well I think I'd I'd reinforce the assessments of my colleagues on the panel here about the complexity of the regional security architecture there's no one-size-fits-all there's no uh
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architecture there's no one-size-fits-all there's no uh there's no Regional NATO nor is the region going to solve all of its problems purely through the the well-meaning multilateralism of of asean or Asian Centric institutions there's I guess a multi-layered solution here or at least a multi-layered way of managing a strategic problem and the Strategic problem is at one level ensuring that coercion uh doesn't succeed that that might does not make right but also that stability can be maintained in the process The Hub and spokes model where the United States was the center of a system of bilateral alliances it still exists but it's evolving and we're now seeing of course the spokes being connected so a web Arrangement the quad obviously is is important and that but also the trilaterals Australia Japan the United States you know Australia Japan India Japan India the United States you can go on uh we're even doing things now with the French or with the Indonesians as well and so all of that I see essentially as
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well and so all of that I see essentially as adjuncts to or supports to the um you know the alliance based system that is where deterrence resides deterrence against China resides through the U.S and its bilateral alliances but to manage stability so deterrence in the bilateral alliances soft balancing through the mini laterals um you know the three and the four-sided polygons but then stability can be reinforced through the multilateral and multi-polar nature of the region so you know the asean regional Forum the East Asia Summit all of these institutions that so far have underperformed and so far have not lived up to their promise but actually have strategic stability confidence building preventive diplomacy written into their mandates mandates which actually China accepted once upon a time we don't need to create a whole new indo-pacific security architecture and that may say sound a little strange coming from someone who's a strong advocate of the indo-pacific as a strategic system but of course a one-size-fits-all that brings in
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but of course a one-size-fits-all that brings in all of the small countries of the region is going to be incredibly unwieldy it's the mini laterals like the quad that can provide the glue that connects the other parts of the system you know the qualities I think as we heard in this conference at Racine are a lighthouse I call it a kind of an island of trust and we've got to keep expanding that island of trust you know the quad engaging with other partners in development and capacity building and all the while keeping open the door for communication with China because in many ways there's nothing that there's nothing that's sort of accommodating or surrendering about having a a relationship of dialogue with China it's actually trying to persuade China that all of these other diplomatic arrangements are there for a stability that is actually I think going back to your point then in China's interest um so let's keep that message so what is the red line that that could make uh things difficult
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the red line that that could make uh things difficult for China I would suppose they were to if the military drills that they're doing right now with Taiwan if they cross over if that happens then what because is is that a plan B right now what you're seeing is this um loosely held uh Hub and spoke model but what happens if there is some kind of a direct conflict then what happens so you're taking us to a a very Grim place here but you know after the Ukrainian situation you have to have that yeah no I'll answer the question I mean it is the it is the quick question what happens when you know literally the balloon goes up yeah uh in in you know in the in in the ugliest way possible uh well I wouldn't in that context I wouldn't call Hub and spokes loose I mean the uh the US Japan Alliance the US Australia Alliance they are serious alliances uh with mutual obligations and although I think it's difficult
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mutual obligations and although I think it's difficult to speculate about what the deterrent balance or response would actually look like in a Taiwan conflict it would be formidable and the whole point of course is to ensure that the conflict doesn't happen in the first place so I would argue that um a U.S led strategic response to whether it's a Taiwan crisis whether it's an East China Sea conflict whether it's a South China Sea conflict you know there are so many flash points I mean there's and then of course we haven't talked about India China as well um that's one vital part of the deterrent puzzle but I think what isn't really well understood yeah he is what an immediate Global crisis a Taiwan conflict would be just as the Ukraine war Russia's aggression against Ukraine precipitated a global crisis even more so I think in the case of Taiwan you know so many countries would have to shut down their economic relations with China overnight which would be catastrophic
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relations with China overnight which would be catastrophic for China and the global economy if we can weaponize that message ahead of time and that's a message to every Global stakeholder it's a message to Europe it's a message to to India and to others then I think we actually stand a chance of preventing that disaster you speak of in the first place right Lynn I'm going to come to you you know at the Munich security conference earlier this year the Indian external affairs minister said and I'll quote him for 45 years there was peace there was stable border management and then no military he's talking about India China and then no military casualties On the Border since 1975. that changed because we had agreements with China not to bring military forces to the border which is the line of actual control that we have and the Chinese violated those agreements he went on to stay say that the state of the Border will determine the state of the relationship and uh so how does the world see the
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relationship and uh so how does the world see the India China border conflict we talked about Taiwan with Rory how does the world see the India China border conflict is it as concerned as it is with the Taiwan situation or with the maritime conflicts which are going on China's Maritime conflicts in East Asia and the South China Sea I think the suggestion in your question is a correct there's a correct one namely that the concern about the India China border dispute is less in the region um than it is say over the South China Sea um uh dispute give in Taiwan of course given I guess the geographical you just feel a bit more geographically distant from the India um China dispute that said I think it is a very important dispute um in so far as if it is resolved by force that undermines um the UN Charter against the use of force and more broadly undermined international law and so I think just as I have very strongly advocated that all countries should be
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have very strongly advocated that all countries should be concerned about the Russian invasion of Ukraine I would similarly say that all countries should be concerned that the dispute over the Indian China border I think that too should be resolved in accordance with international law and countries should be concerned about that as well you know who owns what where I think that's less important so in the South China Sea my concern is less over the territorial dispute because countries can argue perhaps by showing evidence that you know one or another has a better claim over these features in this these land features in the South China Sea what concerns me there is that the maritime domain where there are clear principles under the United Nations convention and the law of the sea that has to be clearly delimited or attributed or Sovereign rights given under the convention so you know the adherence to the rule of laws that part of it is very important so perhaps countries you know do not need to take a position on who
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know do not need to take a position on who has a better claim on the disputed border but they do need to take a strong position that you know international law should be upheld and there should be no use of force on that border Dr nagao I'm going to come to you final questions the same question which I asked how does the world and how does Japan see the India China conflict the Border conflict want that and the second question is you know since the wars Japan's military budget um it it hasn't increased so much as we saw now uh I think 836 billion is what the military budget is for the next fiscal it seems to indicate to us that Japan is is preparing for some kind of a conflict so tell us how that happens because you said military budgets I'm going to go back to that early point that you made that military budgets have to be stepped up in this region if we have to be pragmatic about the conditions that we have right now
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pragmatic about the conditions that we have right now in Asia yeah that is a very good question I think um I repeat it research how to maintain military balance is the main point of the county China Stars that's true so how dividing the China's budget in the morality direction is a good way if Japan possess the Counter-Strike capability and India possesses the storage capability China cannot ignore the two sides at the same time Australia I will possess a submarine based cruise missile capability and so in this case China cannot ignore the attack from Australia even if the submarine is located far from China so that's why the cloud will work to maintain military balance if they possess the strike capability with the United States and all of the whole country will process the strike capability but at the same time to deter China's Invasion to Taiwan or China's expansion and territory in the South China Sea indeed other aspects is also needed for example [Music] something like that because other countries will not react it so that's why
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because other countries will not react it so that's why we should not rely on the trade with China should diverse or we should not rely on China anyway in this case data is also needed that's why TPP the ipf this kind of the economic framework you suggest or Japan tried to indeed character tpps not American project no Japan despite America said first time and another method is also the international status of Taiwan in Taiwan is independent country yes no one doubted indeed but China said this is not so we need to write their status in this case it looks like when the China in Bay Taiwan in this case everyone see this is Invasion this is a violation of the international in this case many countries support Taiwan so China expects such kind situation and gave up to invade that is the ideal situation for us um and China's Invasion so in this case the contribution of the India is very important and the Japan in Japan why they focusing on National Security strategy now is because there is a
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on National Security strategy now is because there is a possibility the situation will appear the China can invade Taiwan soon that's why we must be tight we cannot ignore Taiwan if the uh China start to embed if the Japan will not allow the United States to support Taiwan automatically China can win in Taiwan we think that's why Japan cannot escape from the situation we need to support us we need to support Taiwan so that's why the Taiwan crisis is emerging we must do something we must do something but in this case India's role is also very important in this when we check the India's diplomatic activity to what I want indeed India is rising taiwan's status in internal stage the data started in 1995 to start to start re-established a development condition with Taiwan uh informal and the two since the 2008 when we checked a public document of India that we cannot find any word of the one China policy so so India's in the survivors foreign minister he pointed out in 2014 if China asked
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he pointed out in 2014 if China asked India to adamito and China policy Asia China should accept one India policy and this means China gave up and accepted this is in this territory so that is the right thing because yes India's crime is a legal one right one that's why so India's right but in this case India's activity activity to Taiwan rise intensive status of Taiwan and prevent China's Invasion to a Taiwan I think so that's why India's role is very important I think I should stop it wrong explanation no that's right uh Rory I'm going to come to you uh one the same thing you know which we discussed how does the world view the India China conflict which uh you mentioned early the second one is that you know uh asean region you mentioned the asean region now for almost 10 years whenever I would go to cover the asean uh Meats I would always see that you know there's this consensus actually that that America that erosion of America's strength in the asean region had
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erosion of America's strength in the asean region had started taking place in the india-pacific region uh and the Dynamics of you know I think America got involved with their own issues they were not paying attention to what was happening in the indo-pacific that kind of changed with quad to some extent and uh you know with uh with President Trump um China kind of capitalized on that that ignoring that America did correct me if I'm wrong on this is it too late now uh for the American involvement has the horse left now there's no point bolting the door good questions there's a lot they look on on the uh the India China relationship um I think it's it is important that the International Community focuses much more on this I think the uh really the violence uh in Golan Valley in 2020 was a very very bracing moment internationally the the dockland uh incident in 2017 likewise and speaking personally I would like to see more countries really openly um recognizing uh I guess that India has uh
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um recognizing uh I guess that India has uh has really been the target of quite an aggressive position by China on on the border and and supporting India more more openly now I don't think that the quad is going to turn magically into a military Alliance I don't think you're going to see and I don't think India want you know direct Military Support if you like the front line on on the disputed Border in Himalayas but there's all kinds of indirect support that the court and other partners should be giving to India at every stage of this dispute whether it's in uh you know whether whether it's in capability whether it's in intelligence whether it's diplomatically and likewise I think that's they're the kinds of expectations we would place on India if there were crises in in East Asia going to your question about asean and and really the broader region and the American role here you know I think that the um the death of America as a decisive power in the indo-pacific has been
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a decisive power in the indo-pacific has been prematurely announced many times and I think now is another of those occasions uh I think what the Biden Administration is demonstrating is that America is back in a comprehensive way and importantly it's not only in a military sense it's also improving from a low base if you like geoeconomic engagement but it's improving it and of course there's a big base if you think about private sector American Investment in the region which is massive so we need to somehow mobilize that for the strategic competition America will stay in my view in the indo-pacific the United States is serious about competing with China it cannot compete with China without playing a strategic role in the world's pivotal region and I think both sides of American politics Now understand that so the friends of the United States and allies we just have to help shape and moderate that role in ways that support stability as well as deterrence and there's a role there for asean
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deterrence and there's a role there for asean I think the asean institutions that we speak of there while they may underperform in some ways have maintained levels of dialogue levels of internal balance and stability within asean and really now is the time for those institutions and leaders within those institutions to step up and send concerted messages to China that it can't dominate this multi-polar region right thank you so much gentlemen thank you Dr Lynn thank you so much for explaining this very complex uh issue about the South China conflict thank you so much thank you so much thanks thank you thank you for watching or listening into this episode of a i podcast with Smitha prakash at the raisina dialogue namaste click here to watch the previous episodes [Music]
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when a member of their Community assassinated gandhiji What followed was also wrong and it's never talked about which is this massive rioting against the maharashtrian Brahman Community saw workers brother Narayan was dragged out of his house and stoned to death the revolutionaries remember are modernists after Independence the revolutionaries were deliberately pushed out of the National Power structure the single most important event that led to Indian freedom is the naval Revolt it is unnecessarily foisted on the uh Indian Muslim most of them are descendants of Indians not of turkey Invaders mughals did try to make their way back and Babar is absolutely clear why he came to India he came for the gold he says so himself Dyer was actually given a sarupa in in the Golden Temple now that is bad in itself but when you go there you realize that the jallianwala bagh and the golden temple are 300 meters apart idea of khalistani movement interestingly even today comes from exactly those same
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